veteran-class

[frank ledge]

hp bars users on their way to claim it doesn't give them an edge

[dusty violet]

who cares

[torn gorge]

with just a bit of practice you can cleave 2 heads with a diagonal and that is kinda low bar effort

[placid portal]

Really big bulky axe

[torn gorge]

that alone can net you a bodyshot 1 tap on 3rd target

[dusty violet]

advantage in a pve game 🤣

[frank ledge]

The same people that care about balance in a pve game.

[gusty sonnet]

I agree with that, but then you have to put the weapon customization mod in the same bag

[sonic grove]

ah, this one

[placid portal]

Yee

[torn gorge]

how are healtbars an edge?

[dusty violet]

im seeing big zeroes just big zeroes across the board here

[torn gorge]

just hack until its dead

then move on

[sonic grove]

I suppose I ought to learn how to use axes, they are the canon Krieg standard issue close combat weapon per the kill team rules

[torn gorge]

knowing the % bar does not alter the amount of swing you take

[dusty violet]

it doesnt magically make you able to kill them faster

[placid portal]

More like visual noise

[oak cosmos]

question

[placid portal]

[oak cosmos]

does deadshot not trigger when you have 0 stamina?

[placid portal]

Ye

[midnight mortar]

Correct.

[dusty violet]

it just visualizes the damage, like data

[placid portal]

No stamina no crits

[midnight mortar]

It spends stamina as a resource.

[torn gorge]

the dopamine of tons of numbers though

[frank ledge]

They reveal every harmed special. If it was just the hp of the thing you marked it'd be fine, even if it's still gameplay changing to know htk, it's not that relevant

[dusty violet]

are you going to also say that using a breakpoint calculator is an advantage

[midnight mortar]

Only active while you have stamina.

[oak cosmos]

ah okay, now that makes me think what I should use on my Lucius Hellbore

[frank ledge]

Breakpoint calculator doesn't have an in mission use

[oak cosmos]

Mk 3 so takes some time to charge up the thing

[torn gorge]

ye but you have the psykanium

its easy to test it there as well

without mods

[frank ledge]

Ye, so?

[torn gorge]

[dusty violet]

i think the main thing that reveals specials is the giant fucking axe they have in their hand

or the huge machinegun

or the giant muscles

[placid portal]

Mk3 does hit hard but if you like stabbing the mk1 and 2 are super good at thag

[dusty violet]

or the loud sound indicators

[torn gorge]

how does it give a practical advantage

[frank ledge]

The issue the hp bar mod is replacing marking.

[dusty violet]

i dont think the hp bar mod is revealing specials to people

its not replacing marking

i use the hp bar and i have no fuckin clue where some specials are unless they are marked

even in hordes

[torn gorge]

replacing marking?

[frank ledge]

That doesn't reveal them, inside hordes (outside of tall bois), behind terrain, behind screen elited, behind obscuring effects

[oak cosmos]

I use Mk 3 for now

but I'd like to use Mk 1 for bayonet charge too

[dusty violet]

neither does healthbar

what does reveal them is marking them

[placid portal]

Also good tip if you have a melee weapon with brutal momentum your bayonet also benefits from it as well

[torn gorge]

maybe im naive but i mostly rely on sound cues for specials/elites

or eyeballs

the most powerful of the mods

[dusty violet]

that too

[placid portal]

Silent special do be a bitch

[frank ledge]

The moment they take ANY form of stagger, including mutants/boss, they are rebealed to you for 12 seconds

[dusty violet]

you get a nice sound to time a dodge

[sonic grove]

Which works until the stealth ogryns arrive

[dusty violet]

even if you cant see them

to say the hp bar mod 'replaces marking' is disingenuous at best

[oak cosmos]

how I learned to play veteran is really funny

[dusty violet]

i rely on marking just as much as i did before using the hp bar

[oak cosmos]

I played Ogryn

[torn gorge]

unironically the reason why playing melee is superior, as you are constantly moving/sliding

[frank ledge]

Pretty irrelevant, hp bars is providing additional information that is obscured by the game, besides sound hasn't worked properly since update 8 so 6th sense has to nowadays

[torn gorge]

as opposed as strafing while adsing

[oak cosmos]

and got a checklist filled with what I want my veterans to do

[placid portal]

Ogryn bestest class

[dusty violet]

the real advantage it gives is it lets you visualize which enemies to prioritize, if thats something you can afford to do in a situation

[oak cosmos]

and I do that

[sonic grove]

So bad news, all my axes are fucking trash by the looks of it

[odd sparrow]

I still spam marking as well. Since the healthbar placement isnt exact you wont be using for shooting

[dusty violet]

it lets you see in real time how much damage you are doing without fighting the psykaniums inanimate robots

yea i still spam making

i spam marking through fog to spot enemies

[placid portal]

Back to the meat grinder I suppose

[sonic grove]

I got dis

[delicate moat]

ah yes, a rushing zealot in AM, I wonder why it's suddenly so hard

[oak cosmos]

lmao

[sonic grove]

dis

[torn gorge]

toss some smokes at them

[sonic grove]

and dis

[placid portal]

Ah rip

[delicate moat]

bro is pulling aggro of the next two rooms, dies, repeats

[frank ledge]

• Exact number of specials the moment you have any aoe, be it smite, ogryn charge, mutant/boss run, fire barrels and so on
• Aprox location
• Exact htk needed
• Bypasswd the mark limit

[sonic grove]

and as far as I can tell none of these are good

[torn gorge]

hence why you toss the smoke

[dusty violet]

doesnt do any of those things at all

[torn gorge]

so you do not see them

[dusty violet]

you should try using the hp bar mod before talking about it because im not sure if you have an idea what you are talking about

[sonic grove]

the one with the correct blessings is probably the best

[dusty violet]

it doesnt bypass the mark limit, it doesnt tell you exactly htk needed, it doesnt give you their location, and it doesnt tell you the exact number of specials

[frank ledge]

I've been using it since patch 4 as my streams show

[placid portal]

Ye

[dusty violet]

it gives them a bar over their head if you hit them

thats it

[placid portal]

Luv headtaker over decimator imo

[frank ledge]

Again. The moment they GET STAGGERED by anything

[torn gorge]

both axes are fine tbh

you only need brutal momentum

for them to work on hordes

[dusty violet]

i have never seen an enemy i would normally have not seen purely because of the healthbar mod

[torn gorge]

same as ogryn shovel

[dusty violet]

its not like i see this giant bar sticking through a wall or something

[torn gorge]

without that they are not great

with that they are just the best weapon in the game

[gusty bison]

Nah u just see giant healthbars stickinh through bulwarks

[placid portal]

Take a swing with uncanny shovel sounds fum

[sonic grove]

I was told decimator is also needed

[frank ledge]

I can see if puber number 839 hit a patrol and they are now coming

I can see how many specials are behind the crusher Just penned

I don't have to keep my pin on the run away specials because someone already hit them once

[frank ledge]

You...do

[rain ocean]

Actually, i kinda wanna get a shovel, what are good blessings for it?

[dusty violet]

i dont

[dusty violet]

maybe if you sit there and focus on counting every one of the 25 ragers i guess you get a number

[frank ledge]

You can even see their hp bar cross map if they ran off

[sonic grove]

I enjoy take a swing and the extra staggering one, because the shovel is more of a space making tool than a killing tool in my experience

[dusty violet]

well fortunately you can not like the hp bar mod but we can still use it

you can just not use it

[placid portal]

Uncanny Decimator Skull crusher is a good start

[sonic grove]

What does uncanny do?

[placid portal]

Rending

[gusty bison]

Rending on weakspot

[rain ocean]

Ooooooooo Rending

[gilded kernel]

guys

holy fuck

[rain ocean]

Yummy

[placid portal]

16 20 24% per stack 5 times

[frank ledge]

No need to focus, just allows you to leave nothing behind and average what you are dealing instead of been blinded to it because a crusher or bulwark is on the way obscuring the 5 ragers.

[placid portal]

So 120% rending at max stacks

[gilded kernel]

i just got on overwatch on a damnation hi intens run

[placid portal]

Nice

[frank ledge]

I've used it since it's release (again) and I want it gone.

[dusty violet]

that sucks man but its gonna stay

[gilded kernel]

pingtowin revolver best build fr

[dusty violet]

its not against the modding policy

[odd sparrow]

Rending hard caps at 100%

[placid portal]

Oof oh well

[frank ledge]

Like the better bots mod or the try again mod?

[odd sparrow]

Still good tho

[dusty violet]

no clue what those are

[dusky flare]

nah it goes to 200% now

[dusty violet]

i just use healthbar, buyuntilrating, and the customization mod

[placid portal]

Nice

[frank ledge]

One was removed the other will be patched.

[odd sparrow]

They changed it this patch?

[gusty bison]

Its cheating but its not that egregious. But it does result in lazy players

[delicate moat]

another lobby, another rushing zealot

[gusty bison]

Ffs, TAG

[dusty violet]

those mods sound like totally different than the healthbar mod anyways

[dusky flare]

Ever since the rework it's been changed.

[unreal bone]

I got 3 ogryns on my team and somehow I feel more unprotected than a full team of veterans.

[delicate moat]

i love watching rushing zealots die

[frank ledge]

I swear people will claim hp bars doesn't provide additional info

Somehow

[dusty violet]

i never said that

[gusty bison]

Always attack first

[placid portal]

Must be none bone eds

[timid otter]

Skullcrusher is likely better then uncanny on the shovel unless aiming to kill crushers with it. Since it has high damage vs flak as a basepoint.

[odd sparrow]

I tested before the patch yesterday and rending above 100% didnt increase dmg

[unreal bone]

Real bruh

[dusty violet]

so one of those mods you brought directly changes the way the game's AI works, and another sounds like it bypasses the game's gui/buttons to make you retry the same map which you normally cant do

[unreal bone]

I'm playing glass cannon plasma vet

[dusty violet]

a far cry from seeing a health bar on an enemy

[dusky flare]

on what weapon?

[frank ledge]

Hp bars bypasswd the need to mark and pay attention

[dusty violet]

both of those mods you mentioned "directly affect unmodded players’ experience of the game" which is against the modding policy

[odd sparrow]

Knife.

[dusty violet]

doesnt bypass the need to mark

[gusty bison]

Gotta love AAF. One of the og cheat mods

[dusty violet]

paying attention is such a vague concept

the need to 'pay attention' come on now

im telling ya if someone isnt paying attention the hp bar mod is not helping them

[dusky flare]

and what target? it can only go up to 125% damage

[frank ledge]

It majorly does, you just shoot, if it runs you know where it is, as if pubers needed that

[odd sparrow]

Flak, i should have hit a crusher i suppose

[frank ledge]

"Oh there's many elites coming" instead of "It's just a few elited"

[astral blade]

ooooo what is this OG cheat mod

[dusty violet]

in me and my friends experience we the hp bar mod isnt giving us that level of information

[dusky flare]

definitely hit carapace

[dusty violet]

when im sniping i usually have to mark them anyways just to make landing a weakpoint easier

[dusky flare]

if ur base mod is close to 100%, rending will only be marginal. the closer to zero, the better rending since it's additive

try knife lights on crushers

[astral blade]

seriously what is this OG cheat mod

[void girder]

Cheat engine

[dusty violet]

a regular person can determine how many elites are coming by looking in that direction and seeing 25 ragers the hp bar mod isnt putting a number on your screen "theres 25 ragers coming!!!"

[dusty violet]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1046914161923334214/1176440379017547838/Snaptik.app_7303171855047871774_online-video-cutter.com.gif?ex=656ee07b&is=655c6b7b&hm=91a66e887c5056dc233822b475481df5481ace8942c32c6fdba13125a41bf48c&

old school

[frank ledge]

I am literally pinging the lowest hp enemy so my allies focus it and gain toughness from it

Using hh to spam into elite groups and call out if a lot is coming or not, due to pen hh tends to mark shotgunners in flak patrols

I can literally see everything going on with elites and if anyone is struggling to deal with em

[void girder]

funi number changing

[frank ledge]

Put a bulwark, a wall infront

[dusty violet]

it sounds like you have devoted a lot of time in figuring out how to maximize the mod to your advantage

more than anyone ive ever met

[frank ledge]

Now you don't know if zealot number 500 is just rushing or found a patrol and ate it

[dusty violet]

i think this is a you problem

[frank ledge]

So it is a problem I have that I can use the mod obtain info that is otherwise obscured or requires better positioning to acquire?

[dusty violet]

yea

im just gonna stick with the modding policy

[gusty bison]

Basically let u bypass attack speed caps by QQ macro abuse

At superhuman speeds

[frank ledge]

It's not an issue with the mod allowing me to do this?

You could argue it is modifying my gameplay and as such, is affecting the experience of others

[odd sparrow]

Well allegedly it should still improves damage after your armor mod is 100%, it should flat increase dmg by 1/4 the rending the amount

But here the hard cap matters, and was where rending over 100 stopped mattering.

I dealt something like 2.2k when i reached 100% rending with backstab, adding uncanny strike stacks on top did not change the damage whatsoever

[frank ledge]

They simply can't compete with my kill stealing

[gusty bison]

Keyword being superhuman

Its literally impossible to keep up with AAF's attack speed spam

[void girder]

• use cheat engine
• change damage number
• win
• find out that cheat engine won’t work
• ignore and pretend
• win

[frank ledge]

Macro

[astral blade]

pls introduce me to this mod

[gusty bison]

Its been removed

Due to it being a cheat

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046914150363844779/1128646113138843658/Glitch_abuse_1.mp4?ex=65671d9a&is=6554a89a&hm=c5904bed28f4e227133c4422fb3871e5353905268f94817667509a772e4b276b&

See this

Its actually egregious

[dusky flare]

I see. Are you sure that was the 100% rending hard cap or the 125% hard cap?

[astral blade]

....it dont look like a cheat

[odd sparrow]

Well i havent heard of this 125 hard cap so im not sure depends on knife's flak armor mod

[void girder]

(Look at the other players)

[rain ocean]

Look at those two Zealots

Giga swinging all over

Like a lawnmower

[gusty bison]

One of them was a psyker

Lol

[rain ocean]

Oh

I'm blind clearly

[unreal bone]

why not lower charge rate btw?

why 73% charge on plasma

[timid otter]

#veteran-class message

[astral blade]

seriously it doesn't look like a cheat at all

[unreal bone]

This is my current pgun

[gusty bison]

It literally triples the dps of a weapon

How the fuck is it not a cheat

[astral blade]

it dont look like a cheat 😉 looks like ya just doing a regular old melee

[gusty bison]

You literally cannot keep up with that physically

[timid otter]

I do not know if you manage to hit the breakpoints

[gusty bison]

Watch the swing speed and the clear speed

Thats not possible normally

[unreal bone]

So what is more important.. Damage and Stopping Power? Or 73% charge rate?

[astral blade]

https://tenor.com/view/that-was-sarcasm-general-deckler-tom-south-park-s11e11-gif-21154548

[timid otter]

Stopping power could mainly stop a 1 shot on the scab gunner (flak gunner)

[topaz lance]

only pretending, huh?

[astral blade]

mhm

[timid otter]

I would presume that charge is more important then stopping power

[dusky flare]

You can only do up to 25% damage with the 1/4 over-rending. That means that 200% rending should be the theoretical effective limit since that's what brings a 0% modifier up to the 125% damage cap.

[odd sparrow]

Charge rate is like + - 2% dmg so its not that important

[timid otter]

Your current charge rate loses you about 17 damage

[unreal bone]

Good cause I have 0 idea how to read that charge rate chart Wilmer sent me

How tf do you read that thing.

[frank ledge]

With glasses

[odd sparrow]

Look at your current charge rate number(0-80), then look at the dmg change on the right

[frank ledge]

Joke obviusly

[dusky flare]

The practical rending limit for most weapons will be way lower, but not hard-capped

[unreal bone]

Okay but what are the dmg and list damage rows for?

And dmg/list

[timid otter]

Do highest damage possible (73) minus your current charge rate damage to check damage lost

[gusty bison]

Oh lmao

[odd sparrow]

Compared to if damage wasnt affected by charge speed

[wheat violet]

What does rending actualy mean?

[torn gorge]

peak zealot form

[odd sparrow]

Armor pen basically

Dunno why they didnt just call it armor pen tbh

[wheat violet]

What about

Finese or how its spelled

[odd sparrow]

Its crit/weakspot multiplier

[unreal bone]

So like the dmg row shows the damage WITh the charge rate? And the dmg list row shows what it would be without it?

That charge rate chart is confusing tf outta me

[odd sparrow]

So higher finesse more crit/weakspot dmg

[torn gorge]

on some weapons finesse stat means attack speed

[odd sparrow]

Also that

[torn gorge]

as a stat in general it affects crit/weakspot damage multiplier

[wheat violet]

Ah so we are being consistently inconsistent

[odd sparrow]

Yes :)

[wheat violet]

Nice one fatshark

[odd sparrow]

Finesse dmg = crit/weakspot dmg multiplier

Finesse weapon stat = atk speed on melee weapons and usually effects finesse dmg as well.

[sharp ember]

I know about the 1/4 damage conversion rate for rending past 100% ADM, but i never heard of this maximum damage bonus of 25%

[delicate moat]

ohhhh thats what i was seeing one day, i was extremely confused how they swung their force swords so quickly

[wheat violet]

So stopping power is determining if your weapon hit staggers enemy it hits?

[sharp ember]

more stopping power = better damage vs armor, and better stagger value

[acoustic bloom]

good base or is thermal too low?

[sharp ember]

maniac and unyielding counts as armor

[wheat violet]

Well, saw someone roll 0 on the Thermal so...

[wheat violet]

Neat

[sharp ember]

very nice, thermal isn't a huge issue

unless it's 0%

[torn gorge]

thermal and charge rate are mostly irrelevant in the current context of plasma gun usage

[hollow turtle]

These foreign player accounts... Have pretty unstable connection that sometimes their character just stands their mid match. Anyone else noticing that?

[frank ledge]

800 ping moment

[hollow turtle]

Lol why are they in the US/EU servers.

[noble onyx]

Near-perfect base

[acoustic bloom]

no gets hot but I think it turned out ok
feeling unyielding out for flak but not sure what else

[odd sparrow]

Id change crit chance for flak

Unyielding is pretty alright for plasma

[acoustic bloom]

[odd sparrow]

Gets you closer to reach 1 hit BP on ogryns and melt bosses faster

[acoustic bloom]

think gloryhunter out for gets hot? I was gonna run it with shout

[odd sparrow]

Hope someone else can answer as im not very knowledgable on plasma guns

[junior needle]

iirc you need maniac for some breakpoints

Glory>gets hot
Crit>Maniac

[crude wind]

great base

you don't need maniac on plasma

best perk on it is unironically either elites or unarmoured, depending on what your gun needs to hit breakpoint vs Dreg

[astral blade]

Question to my fellow vets do any of y’all call out someone in a mission if they are being selfish or wasteful with ammo?

[crude wind]

not really

[acoustic bloom]

nah I just steal the ammo faster

[crude wind]

if someone takes ammo when I'm low I just ping i need ammo a lot

if they keep doing it i leave

[nimble sentinel]

Lasgun, don't even need ammo pickups most of the time

[astral blade]

Yeah I usually call them out saying something like “oi dîck head there are those of us who need ammo more than your selfish ass”

Generally giving an example of the player who has the lowest ammo count

In the group at the time

Most of the time it gets them to be more considerate but other times I get assholes telling me to shut up and stop complaining

[strange grove]

Nothing like having to altf4 cuz game is in infinite loading

the load times in this game are so obsene for the graphical fidelity

[astral blade]

At least it’s not as bad as GTA online loading screens

[strange grove]

lol never played that

Cyberpunk 2077 has it down, load a whole city in half the time as this dumbass ship

[astral blade]

Oh lord you are lucky than because the loading times for gta online are horrendous

Like worse than darktide

[gusty bison]

Usually its the KB ogryns

Spamming their shot on everything

Hordes, lone chaff, barrels and poxbursters near allies...

[strange grove]

Ive seen the above before

[astral blade]

Lately it hasn’t being ogryns that I’ve had to call out but my fellow vets or zealots

[unreal bone]

idk if it's just me but the keystones for veteran still feel kinda meh.

Like the focus target one feels okay.

[astral blade]

Rarely a psyker but normally I’d just raise an eyebrow and just let it slide if it’s a psyker

[fair jay]

They feel worth the points at least

[unreal bone]

Not to me really tbh.

[gusty bison]

Zealots? Why the fuck are they even playing zealot

[unreal bone]

I'd rather multi-class than get any of them still, focus target I sometimes run.

Good luck standing still for long enough to make use of Marksman focus lol

[gusty bison]

Zealots are certified the class with the worst ranged lol

[astral blade]

Have a guess

[fair jay]

Marksman focus movement penalty isn’t that bad

[gusty bison]

Martyrdom?

[fair jay]

Dodging and then moving a little will lose 1 focus point

Not that bad

[whole moon]

Entirely agree but at least they can wield a Columnus lol

[fair jay]

Zealot ranged is saved by momentum isn’t it?

[astral blade]

That and bolter or shotgun zealots

[strange grove]

yikes first mission of the day is a hi int SG vent purge

[astral blade]

It’s normally the bolter zealots those

[fair jay]

Hoover up all the ammo

[pine plume]

Why did you pick it then

[astral blade]

Quick match I’d assume

[gusty bison]

Bolter... zealot..m

Why

Just why

[astral blade]

Try asking the Oceana zealots that

[strange grove]

QP. The zealot/psyker thought rushing was a great idea, died and left

The ogryn seemed good tho

[vale ledge]

Working on a Monster Hunter Veteran and I need an opinion on this plasma gun gimme a sec-

Already did some stuff to it fyi

[astral blade]

https://tenor.com/view/mhw-hammer-gif-24949482

[vale ledge]

Personally? Im more of a Switch Axe user

[astral blade]

You did mention monster hunter

[vale ledge]

I know what I said :]

[astral blade]

Couldn’t resist sorry

[vale ledge]

Is good but honest opinion, is this good for hunting? Like should I keep some things or outright dump it for another weapon?

[astral blade]

Looks alright but I’m not the best judge in terms of plasma

[raw steppe]

you really want to get as high as possible rolls

in damage, stopping power and ammo

[north raptor]

opinions on smoke grenade? im a noob but it seems like a supporty thing and i enjoy that

[raw steppe]

it's trash

[flint garden]

it sucks

[vale ledge]

I personally enjoy throwing it at Poxwalkers to stun them for a split second

[whole moon]

Mixed but I read a good tactic if you have team Comms. Drop grenade on team, pop F to highlight all enemy ranged so team can clear up

[topaz lance]

don't smoke, bad for your health

[north raptor]

does it just not work?

[flint garden]

snipers ignore it and gunners still shoot through it

[north raptor]

oh

[dusk idol]

someone in the dev team said we have stuns, what about smokes?

and then implemented it in the worst way possible

[north raptor]

well thank you

[torn gorge]

gunners shoot at the last position they saw you

so a smoke can still provide cover

just not vs snipers

[whole moon]

Brother! I am pinned here

[umbral scaffold]

Remember when a cosmetic set without a headpiece and weapon skin/charm was 800 aquilas?
Now they charge 2400 for a three piece set.

[north spoke]

You guys think the Vanguard cosmetics will have variations to them?

[umbral scaffold]

lolno, pay up piggie

[nimble sentinel]

zealot ironically got the freshest vet drip

[north spoke]

DON'T CALL ME PIGGIE!! I AM DONKEY FAN NUMBER ONE!

[torn gorge]

i doubt there will be variations in general at least now

maybe in the future?

[north spoke]

He does

[acoustic bloom]

my finished plasma gun

[trim hemlock]

That’s a mistake that FS had learned from, sadly

[north spoke]

Hopefully, I just want to get rid of those chonky boots

[spark hamlet]

almost there

[trim hemlock]

I have the Psyker’s outfit, and I’m extremely glad I do, because I very much doubt that it will ever return to rotation for 800 Aq

[raw steppe]

just don't buy em

waste of money

[umbral scaffold]

Pretty sure people would be more willing to pig out if they released more basic bitch low cost cosmetics like that instead of cement jungle poopstain camo #64 recolor of the same cosmetics they've released already.

[trim hemlock]

Well, relay that to them. People don’t talk about this stuff often enough.

[empty heron]

Have you tried marksman yet? You are not alone in saying this but I think most people who say it haven't really tested it. You can actually move a lot. It shouldn't affect your playstyle. The only exception are maybe bosses if there are no enemies around or if you have problems hitting headshots. Otherwise you can move as you would normally.

[raw steppe]

pretty sure they have people who's job is to analyse this shit and figure out the best prices for them to make the most money lol rather than some random dude in reddit who knows more than them

[umbral scaffold]

I'm offended, I shower too much to be a redditor

[frank ledge]

No1 ur not the target audience

whales are

pay piggies that will coomsoom the next shiny outfit

[trim hemlock]

That’s not to say we are not supposed to be writing feedback on this

[frank ledge]

and are extremely vulnerable to FOMO

We can't do anything about it either

we don't pay, whales pay for 10 of us

[raw steppe]

ya but i think the feedback is pretty pointless

[frank ledge]

Ye it's better to just leave a negative review

and hope it adds up to the next bombing

[raw steppe]

especially since it's literally just skins and they don't affect gameplay

[north spoke]

I like Blue skins

[umbral scaffold]

Commisariat hasn't seen any updates since it's release too

[north spoke]

Gimme

[frank ledge]

I'd like something to work towards.

Penance gear is a joke

[trim hemlock]

But are whales the target audience of the game, or the store? Because it’s the same service, and for what I know, having a bad service will inevitably end bad for FS

[frank ledge]

Perfect weapons are rng dependant so it's never truly "working for it", but more "hoping for it"

[frank ledge]

The store

The game is quite good when in mission

it's just everything around it that encourages whaling

and "retention"

[nimble sentinel]

Die, xeno loving scum

[solemn niche]

old vet was thoughness monster

[frank ledge]

Old vet was a monster

[umbral scaffold]

Commissariat really needs more updates to it, they can create as many reskins as they want. For the Drip mod proves that.

[gusty bison]

Pinning fire unwavering survivalist counterfire shredder

Lel

[crude wind]

genuinely curious - are people's perceptions of the talent trees that they're 'finished'?

[umbral scaffold]

Veteran's still needs more work, longest tree for no real reason.

Lot of dead nodes that are just tax and skills that nobody picks.

[trim hemlock]

But it’s the same service, still - this is a video game. It’s all up to FS if this is the relationship that they want to have with their player base, I.e., offer bad cosmetic item acquisition practices, and constantly scheme against offering the players the best experience that they can have, for the sake of short-term profit.

[north spoke]

You misunderstood Commissar. I meant blue variations of Guardsman armor

[crude wind]

can the say the same of every tree tbh but yes especially bad in Vets

the monesation of skins in this game is pretty distasteful overall. It's not Diablo 4 bad but I think £10+ per outfit is kind of gross. On the other hand, I do want this game to stay profitable and I do want them to keep rolling out content over the years, so if that balance is struck...

[trim hemlock]

The tree is somewhat bloated with stat nodes that could be connected and put in appropriate places, with consequently a bigger bonus.

I don’t like the middle bottom tree starting with a skill node that you have to take - I would rather take something meaningful, and I’m only taking it to reach the Cool-down reduction on Special kill feat.

[crude wind]

it's kind of a lose lose really lol

[umbral scaffold]

Soon they'll start charging us for content updates too 🙂

[crude wind]

middle tree is the biggest offender for dead nodes up top

[trim hemlock]

That’s more-or-less my sentiment also

[crude wind]

this is nothing new, that;s been a thing since VT2

[glass pumice]

Vet kind of has the most tree problems atm, highest tax, longest tree, clunky and weaker Keystones compared to the other classes

[crude wind]

i would WHOLLY expect the first DLC weapons pack (new weapons) to be charged for

[umbral scaffold]

If prices stay fast food burger priced for content DLC like in VT2 then I'm okay with it.

[crude wind]

what was the weapons pack in VT2 charged at?

moonfire bow

duckfoot pistols etc

[empty heron]

And yet vets have the biggest carry potential? (semi-question / semi-statement)

[trim hemlock]

I would say that reducing the tax re: relative freedom of grenade choice is fine, but then you get to aura choices and it’s back to taxing you for branching out

[umbral scaffold]

5 euro

[astral blade]

Damn it I just had a fast food burger earlier now ya just made me hungry again

[crude wind]

well i don't see us getting that price again XD

[frank ledge]

Yes, but part of the service caters to big spenders, which lowers what the average playing has to say towards the game

[whole moon]

I feel I carry more as my Ogryn than any other class. Bizzarely Psyker is next

[frank ledge]

If a big spender is worth 10 of us, fatshark will mostly focus on them, while doing the bare minimun for us

[crude wind]

hopefully this is a top priority for them 😉

[umbral scaffold]

Careers are 3,49 euro

[frank ledge]

Which they have shown actively till review bombs started working

[glass pumice]

not really carrying with Zealot feels far easier and also a lot easier to get there Vet really needs top of the line equipment Zealot can work with far less

[crude wind]

nahhh I paid more than that for my careers

[umbral scaffold]

Necro released for that price too

[empty heron]

Might be. I mostly play pubs so my opinion might be biased towards all the struggling players I meet

[whole moon]

I think personal preference for class plays a huge part too. Your always gonna do better with your faves

[crude wind]

yeah sure i don't doubt that for necro but that's in the year of 2023

i def paid more for GK when it dropped

[astral blade]

Really I find I actually carry with my vet in missions allot of the time

[empty heron]

But I feel a good veteran who uses his whole toolkit towards slaying everything as well as buffing teammates has a lot of potential to carry games

[nimble sentinel]

can confirm, I'm just another dude with the meta melee build but straight DUNKIN on Nurgle with my lasgun

[umbral scaffold]

🤔

[crude wind]

when it dropped

[timid otter]

I enjoy veteran more but do better with zealot

[crude wind]

this is todays price

[timid otter]

Its just not preferences

[whole moon]

Definitely! I was playing damnation recently and for some reason all bar one of us was shite. In the end the Vet didn't bother rezzing us, just soloed the thing and got us up at the end. Think we just made his life harder.

[crude wind]

i don't think any class has greater 'carry' potential than the others, really comes down to the player and what load out they brought into the game

[umbral scaffold]

Vet is the easiest to carry with, piss vision to keep specials and shooters from killing your glue-eating teammates, shout to keep them from dying, infiltrate to just solo the game.

[astral blade]

https://tenor.com/view/look-what-yep-this-gif-13617583

[empty heron]

I've only ever met 2 players like that. A vet and an Ogryn. Me and a friend couldn't keep up with them. At some point they just completed the map duo. Wasn't really fun but I've never seen players that good before. They were speedrunning though so the bulk of the enemies found the two of us in the back.

[astral blade]

Glue-eating teammates why is this so funny

[frank ledge]

Ogryn better

Besides as a carry vet you have to suffer the ammo eating teamates dealing 75k damage and refusing to drop stuff

[astral blade]

Let me pair up with an ogryn and we will be able to duo a map

[frank ledge]

yes

[empty heron]

[delicate moat]

can confirm, glue delicious

[frank ledge]

As speedgryn you just inhale it before they get to it

[umbral scaffold]

My veteran just got his MRE.

[topaz lance]

I hope 1-2 new weapons will be released in December.

[astral blade]

Seriously those give me an ogryn teammate and that said duo is possible

[timid otter]

Do people here actually play mostly maelstrom?

[empty heron]

Or the guy who has shot 2 bullets and feels he needs to top off his ammo reserve with a big ammo bag. While we're at 10% ammo from saving their arses tagging every ammo crate we find.

[trim hemlock]

Also, one or two more “noteworthy” observations. I can’t imagine a situation, in regard to the middle bottom tree choices, in which you would take the 50% increased suppression node over Tactical Awareness. That node doesn’t do much, as the guns that have suppression already can suppress relevant targets, shooters and groaners, relatively easy. It would be nice if that node was remade into something that would allow Vet kill suppressed/staggered targets quicker - encourage actively engaging suppressed targets for some kind of payoff.

I also think Demo Team, currently competing with Iron Will, has to go as a standalone feat and maybe could be connected with Twin Blast (which is also a very unattractive talent node that could use some love, purely because it’s completely tied to RNG for its effectiveness)

[crude wind]

A lot of nodes like this in a bunch of trees

[astral blade]

Seriously those does anyone else stick by the ogryn as a vet?

[crude wind]

depends where he is

[umbral scaffold]

If I stick near the ogryn the chances of him eating my shots with his big ass skyrocket

[dusk idol]

make twinned blast activate on every third grenade throw

[topaz lance]

Yep, removing/merging those would already go a long way towards me being 100% satisfied with the tree.
Really only needs 2-3 nodes less per branch.

[trim hemlock]

That’s a way to make it more appealing.

[umbral scaffold]

It's more than enough when ogryns walk through you while you are actively shooting

[topaz lance]

That's why you use a revolver

[crude wind]

tbh I am done with the Revolver

[empty heron]

You as a vet in a lobby with 3 other ogryns. You're gonna see some blue hitmarkers.

[crude wind]

big snooze

[astral blade]

Still those think I’ll stick by an ogryn more than I’d stick near a psyker or zealot

[dusk idol]

the game has enough rng it doesn’t need more

[empty heron]

Works excellent with all trees though. Hard to compete with that

[topaz lance]

heresy

[crude wind]

yes it's an incredibly overtuned gun

remember when they buffed it

for no reason

I member

[dusk idol]

also exhil takedown as a talent sucks ass, it’s only good in conjunction with other toughness talents

losing CK purely for ET hurts

[umbral scaffold]

Easier to stick to the psyker since they are most likely taking care of trash, zealots you have to keep up with and unless you have a melee build good luck with that.

[kind scarab]

I'll stop using revolver once my shots stop getting eaten by teammates fat asses with all my other weapons

[dusk idol]

unless you’re running autoguns

[crude wind]

doesn't mean i want to play with the same weapon for eternity though

[empty heron]

Can totally relate to that. I tend to swap between Columnus, Revolver and Las Pistol

[topaz lance]

those two feel weirdly "redundant" as they occupy the same design space

just slightly different

[umbral scaffold]

Las Pistol is Chef's Kiss

[astral blade]

Fair but normally if I stick by a psyker the chances of them going kaboom seem to get bigger

[empty heron]

It works so well for almost everything

[umbral scaffold]

Slap DumDum and Ghost on that and never worry about gunner lines again

[topaz lance]

How do you build las pistol?

[dusk idol]

ET shines when there’s a wealth of targets you can quickly and rapidly get weak spot takedowns on, but Veteran is geared toward killing elites and specialists

[crude wind]

nice. I'm liking the 1a, the Plasma and the Columnus and Agri IAGs atm

[trim hemlock]

I mean, is it really? It’s a feat that you take on accurate (you mostly score headshot kills) or semi-accurate weapon (you sometimes score headshot kills), it has no requirements on what type of breed you have to kill and it rewards you, now correctly, with TDR to keep chasing these heads

[astral blade]

And zealots well if they run the loner aura imma just let them run off and not bother reviving them

[empty heron]

Could also make a case for infernus

[topaz lance]

I don't like laser weapons normally, but las pistol feels so much like a toy that it's fun.

[empty heron]

and swap maniac damage

[umbral scaffold]

Very few good blessings on it but the ones that matter are DumDum + Infernus/Ghost.
Flak and Maniac.

[crude wind]

ET really doesn't suck ass if you have good aim and a weapon that can capitalise on it

[trim hemlock]

A question, if you will: do you take any Rending/Brittleness nodes on 1a?

[topaz lance]

Thanks, what about the talents?

[astral blade]

Is ghost really that good?

[crude wind]

not in the current tree, no

[dusk idol]

if you take weapons that are good at supplying you with constant headshots very quickly, it’s good, but on weapons like plasma and revolver which currently perform the best on vet

[crude wind]

I run almost pure left tree

[dusk idol]

CK performs better than ET

[empty heron]

It's very safe

[crude wind]

if I have the point to spend, u can take the rending at 10stacks of finesse

or whatever the keystone is called

[umbral scaffold]

It gives you 1.2 second ranged immunity if you hit a weakspot, that is really good.
You can take out gunner lines just standing still.

[trim hemlock]

It’s good for safety, but safety has compensation in either the skill tree or movement mechanics knowledge + application

[empty heron]

That's the bonus. It can work with every tree. Personally I like it the most with weapon's specialist / shout. But it's very much your choice

[crude wind]

and if, hypothetically, the tree were to ever be condensed, I'd look at dipping middle for the 10% rending node

[astral blade]

Ehhh think I’ll stick with mah infiltrate and low profile

[umbral scaffold]

Low profile 🤮

[crude wind]

my favourite talent on the whole tree

[topaz lance]

Cool! Does deadshot make sense with it?

[dusk idol]

I would suggest taking both ET and CK if we had enough points

[umbral scaffold]

Dumping aggro on teammates is the mark of the shitter

[trim hemlock]

I don’t really run into problems on either the Plasma or the Revolver re: clicking heads, but I see your sentiment

[crude wind]

nah

[umbral scaffold]

yah

[empty heron]

If you really like it sure. But in the las pistols case it actually has a high base crit chance so you don't need it as much

[crude wind]

if you play like a noob maybe

[astral blade]

Say what you want about low profile it helps for being able to Rez teammates or deal with gunners or range units or specials

[crude wind]

low profile lets you clear rooms and save your team mates

[topaz lance]

Revolver headshots seem really easy compared to say a HH autogun

[dusk idol]

I did on revolver, I believe because of the low ammo capacity leads you to conserving ammo for high prio targets

[topaz lance]

ok got it, thanks!

[astral blade]

Seriously I’ve being able to get multiple revives off just with low profile

[trim hemlock]

One more thing that really aggravates me: why does Exec Stance need to have TWO separate upgrades for highlighting shooters and ogryns/monsters, and not reward the player in any other way for taking them?

[crude wind]

yeah I dislike this. I also dislike them being either or choices

[topaz lance]

Yeah something needs to be done about exe stance and the mod nodes.

[languid escarp]

how tf do these bombers make perfect lobs with no vision whatsoever

[astral blade]

Hell I have the fragging 1000 revives to prove it as well

[languid escarp]

they must be wallhacking

[crude wind]

you don't have to defend it brother

[empty heron]

I run this with my las pistol some times. But it's very melee focused. Going full middle tree for example is never wrong. A lot of support and damage if you keep tagging

[dusk idol]

honestly to make the best exec stance you should take neither, they cost so much and offer somewhat little in return

[crude wind]

people who knock low profile have never actually played it

and their opinion can be disregarded as uninformed

[astral blade]

Sorry force of habit

[trim hemlock]

They really do, at least against targets bigger than shooters/bruisers, but even then I sometimes just click ‘em

[dusk idol]

like would you rather sink a point to highlight all shooters even though you won’t be able to kill all of them, or be able to reach a keystone node?

[trim hemlock]

That I can agree with

[crude wind]

because if you've grinded with low profile you'd know that in certain builds it's basically just a flat 40% damage boost for 10s every time you blink stealth

[astral blade]

True

[umbral scaffold]

[crude wind]

nice

[trim hemlock]

That’s a nice IAG

[astral blade]

https://tenor.com/view/cayde6-nicecock-gif-22269803

[trim hemlock]

The blessings on level 3 don’t really stand off hard, due to the discrepancies between levels being not as substantial as they used to be, at least on some of them

[sharp ember]

i miss The Bigger They Are having a damage bonus

[crude wind]

yeah, it's way worse as just a yellow glow

[astral blade]

Let me do you one better my kind sir

[dusk idol]

if they split one old skill into two and made even more bloat for the vet tree 💀

[trim hemlock]

Where does “the back” of enemies start, anyway? What triggers the damage boost from Raking Fire? Is it the hit zone, is it an angle at which the player fires at an enemy’s back?

[astral blade]

180 behind the enemy

[dusk idol]

unless it’s a bulwark and their shield covers 270

dumb design

[trim hemlock]

If it is such an angle, does it deviate any degrees?

I’m curious of this on a technical level, is the problem, because “back” suggests that you need to be at an angle that allows you to shoot the enemy’s, well, back

But what triggers this interaction I wonder

[midnight patrol]

Idk why people say ET and confirmed arnt good lol

[trim hemlock]

Maybe I will manage to find something on this in the code…

[astral blade]

It don’t deviate it’s a full 180 behind the target as long as your in the 180 area the game will consider that the “back”

[midnight patrol]

I'm pretty much immune to supressive and incoming effective fire with my Vraks

[crude wind]

chad

[midnight patrol]

Oof no maniac, but this gun is so powerful I think its doesnt matter a quarter of a second less TTK lol

[sharp ember]

i feel pretty beefy with ET + CK

and i'm missing iron will

[crude wind]

the columnus kill time with raking fire is fucking insane lol

[sharp ember]

gotta keep those helmets flying with my mg1a

[crude wind]

loving that gun atm

The true lasman's weapon 😄

[astral blade]

It still kills mutants pretty fast if one of those fuckers is charging at me the moment I dodge and get behind it it’s dead

[sharp ember]

green iz best

[astral blade]

Literally rakking fire kicks in

[crude wind]

I've got a gross Columnus build atm

Deadshot/ping keystone/raking fire/dumdum low profile

use the stamina regen from ping keystone to get deadshot stam back

[midnight patrol]

Ik I have a few on my gunker lol

It works better with them than my Vet funnily enough

[crude wind]

this is mine

[midnight patrol]

With the game loop of constant crits, even Carapace doesn't stop a Col mk5 at full tilt.

[crude wind]

ah Psyker, what a terrible tree

[astral blade]

Actually I don’t understand something so y’all know how bullets are kinetic right and and las guns well are lasers

How come kinetic weapons don’t penetrate Carapace or ogryn shields?

[midnight patrol]

Easily can do 40k to 50k damage. From the front.

When my gunker gets behind a boss it's almost 60 to 70k lol

[astral blade]

Can someone answer that?

I mean we have some pretty high caliber weapons in darktide right

So hence my question

[midnight patrol]

Flak and Carapace armour in 40k is like comparing Kevlar to advanced ceramic plates.

Carapace can no sell even higher end lasgun fire.

[astral blade]

Shouldn’t a sniper calibre weapon be able to punch through carapace those

[gusty bison]

An ogryn shield is often literally a recycled front plate of a chimera

[astral blade]

Vraks 7 headhunter for example

[astral blade]

That a tank in 40k?

[gusty bison]

APC

But ye

Could be the recycled front plate of a Leman Russ too

[gusty bison]

It depends on what they can get a hold of

[midnight patrol]

Oggy Carapace armour is inches thick lol

You need autocannons

[midnight mortar]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chimera

[midnight patrol]

Or Bolt rounds

[midnight mortar]

Apparently the front hull of a Chimera is 100mm thick.

[astral blade]

What about an actual sniper?

[midnight mortar]

The superstructure's 150mm.

[astral blade]

Like the ones the rattling use

[midnight mortar]

And this is of the high grade alloys they're working with.

[midnight patrol]

Vraks mk7 is just a particularly powerful rifle round. It's like overpressure 8mm Mauser

Not punching through Oggy Carapace with that

[gusty bison]

Basically short of plasma or melta or lascannons, ya aint getting through a bullgryn shield

[midnight patrol]

But crit shots are like sneaking a round into their eye hole.

[gusty bison]

Even bolter shells are ineffectual

[midnight mortar]

And bolters are .75 caliber.

[midnight patrol]

Yeah. Armoured fighting vehicles in 40k are quite well protected

[gusty bison]

Heck even an autocannon struggles

[midnight patrol]

Chimera are considered mere APCs lol

[astral blade]

What about rattling sniper rounds?

[gusty bison]

No chance in hell

[midnight mortar]

Unlikely.

[vagrant narwhal]

I mean bolters could already use types of ammunition to deal with the target

[midnight mortar]

You'd need extremely specialized equipment meant for anti-materiel/anti-armor operations.

[gusty bison]

Only way a ratling is nailing an ogryn past a shield is shoot around it

Basically wait for the ogryn to drop their guard and slide one in

[midnight mortar]

And no one would give a Ratling something that valuable.

I could see Vindicaire Assasins having that as part of their kit though.

Depending on their targets.

[astral blade]

Ya serious what calibre of round do the rattling snipers even use?

[midnight mortar]

It depends on the gun.

[gusty bison]

Same for carapace. You aim for the spots where the armor is weak. A sniperrifle shot to the chestplate is ineffectual

[midnight mortar]

It's not like Ratlings are issued special equipment because they're ratlings.

It's just that Ratlings have a reputation for being good snipers.

[midnight patrol]

The current mechanic of overwhelming the Oggy's stamina to hold up said shield is pretty realistic

[gusty bison]

Yea ratlings shoot around armor

Not through it

[midnight patrol]

The armour is tough. The Oggy behind is still human

[astral blade]

Fuck me guess it all comes back to ab human racism

[vivid ocean]

so they fixed takedown, finally

any plans on another pass at the vet tree

[midnight patrol]

A Stalker Bolter in the .50 cal size might have enough velocity, punch, and the accuracy to sneak past weakpoints

[astral blade]

Guess it explains why rattling don’t have access to high cal rounds

[midnight mortar]

They're a part of the Guard in the end.

They're soldiers.

The equipment they get is dependent on what is deemed fit to be issued to them for their role.

[gusty bison]

I mean theres also the fact they cant carry BFGs

[midnight patrol]

I do wonder how the Moebian 6th have access to so much Carapace kit

[vagrant narwhal]

Also stuff like flamers meltaguns plans guns krak grandes some laguna i believe lore-wise and bolters depending on ammunition used would work against carapace, power and force weapons too

[gusty bison]

Ratlings are weak

[midnight mortar]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ratling

[midnight patrol]

Think they cannibalize the Leman Russes en masses?

[midnight mortar]

Forge World, so there's plenty of it in production I'd guess.

[gusty bison]

They literally have control of LR factories

[midnight mortar]

And they control a number of those manufactorums.

[midnight patrol]

That's true.

[gusty bison]

And atoma has a shit ton of ore

[untold mulch]

Also Moebian 6th were pretty stocked in equipment, weren't they like the best regiment on the region?

[midnight patrol]

When Hadron says tank companies suffer 75% loss rates I'm like

[gusty bison]

Armor plates is not the limiting resource

[midnight patrol]

Good lord you don't even get to paint these things before they are neutralized.

[astral blade]

So calibre of round can essentially punch through carapace

[gusty bison]

Ur looking at 20mm

Full ass autocannon

[midnight patrol]

And dedicated AP or Sabot rounds

[vagrant narwhal]

I mean some lower caliber weapons now days can already do it

13mm guns that is or 14mm forgotten

[astral blade]

Fuck me the devs really didn’t think this whole damn thing through didn’t they

[midnight patrol]

Heavy Stubber are .50 cal. So that could theoretically perforated thinner Carapace with the right ammo

[midnight patrol]

Crushers are designed as the human sized APCs er gotta deal with

You use Power weapons or Krak grenades.

[vagrant narwhal]

Sabot ammo at that caliber can probably do closer to 80mm

[astral blade]

Would honestly be great to have AP rounds

[gusty bison]

Note: This is one shot going clean through.

[midnight patrol]

Power weapons break the very molecular bonds of the armour

[gusty bison]

Repeated hits can cause armor fragmentation since its ceramic based.

[midnight patrol]

So it's strength is irrelevant.

[gusty bison]

Like point a heavy stubber at carapace long enough and it will break

[midnight patrol]

Krak are literally magnetic HEAT grenades

[astral blade]

Actually would the devs implement AP rounds?

[midnight patrol]

Those will no sell Carapace.

[midnight mortar]

It wouldn't really fit with the way the weapons work.

[midnight patrol]

Crit mechanics are our AP.

[midnight mortar]

Swapping ammunition etc.

[gusty bison]

Also like carapace protection is non uniform

[midnight mortar]

Yeah, crits are basically a stand in for that mechanic.

[midnight patrol]

You role-play it as sneaking rounds into weakpoints

[vagrant narwhal]

Still you are forgetting about lass weapons

[astral blade]

Welp so much for full weapon customisation

[gusty bison]

Lastly. Even non penetrating hits hurt

[vagrant narwhal]

Done should be capable lorewise

[midnight mortar]

In the immortal words of Hedge, weapon customization is immeasurably complex.

[vagrant narwhal]

Energy still is here

[midnight patrol]

Helbore is a good example of sheer energy overmatch

[midnight mortar]

That's why we'll never see it ever.

[vagrant narwhal]

There*

[midnight patrol]

A full charged crit will still dome a Crusher

[vagrant narwhal]

Ye

[midnight mortar]

And yeah, the kinetic energy will still bruise them underneath. They'll feel it anyhow.

[gusty bison]

Just cos the armor stopped it from going theough into you doesnt mean the impact isnt gonna break somethung

[astral blade]

Ahhhh weapon customisation mod is a thing….

[midnight mortar]

Stagger and damage are also conveyed that way.

[midnight mortar]

Shhh. It's just too complicated.

[gusty bison]

Like a sniper shot into a kasrkin soldier is still gonna put him on his ass and wind him

[midnight patrol]

If you want to roleplay an anti material sniper @astral blade . The Helbore with a crit build is very close

[gusty bison]

Maybe break a rib or two

A headshot is still gonna knock him out cold like a mean right hook even if it doesnt pen

[astral blade]

To complicated my ass they already had the fragging files in the system

[midnight patrol]

Hotshot Las weapons have the advantage that their energy output is entirely scalable

[astral blade]

Attachments and all

[midnight patrol]

And 40k battery tech is incredibly advanced

[untold mulch]

Pretty sure mechanicus is still somewhat clueless about how the lasgun packs work

[astral blade]

Wait you mean to tell me the tech priests don’t know how lasgun packs work?

[sharp ember]

just follow the holy instructions that make them work

[untold mulch]

I am mostly sure, that the battery, they are not entire sure how it refills energy so efficiently

they understand the basics, but not the efficiency it reaches

[astral blade]

…..fuck me did they never think to take apart a lasgun

[untold mulch]

Lasgun is pretty understandable

there are a shitton of patterns for a reason

The battery is the hard part

[sharp ember]

great crusade era lasguns were all master-crafted relative to what they make now

[astral blade]

Sooooo just take apart the battery itself fairly sure the tech priests can do that I mean it’s kinda in their name plus ain’t they meant to be able to tinker with weapons anyways

[umbral scaffold]

Just a tip for stealth vets, you can underhand throw grenades so it doesn't break stealth

[thick rose]

so is XII still the good lasgun?

[untold mulch]

Yeah, 30k lasrifles could be overcharged to shoot like a LASCANNON

Like what

[sharp ember]

good, other variants competitively good now too

[gusty bison]

Note: Gun runs the danger of exploding.

[sharp ember]

mg1a gang

[untold mulch]

Just because you can open it up, doesn't means you understand it

[midnight patrol]

The battery packs are Blackbox tech

[untold mulch]

DAOT tech is a bruh

[midnight patrol]

They can kinds understand it. But they don't truly understand it.

[untold mulch]

Ask a caveman to open a radio, and tell you how it works

doens't work

[midnight patrol]

The battery packs have so much stored energy. They can be forced to explode like Krak grenades

So you're looking at autocannon prop

[astral blade]

Imma be real here the more I find out about the 40k lore the dumber I think the imperium of man truly are

[limber lodge]

ma plaz

[untold mulch]

Though Mechanicus is somewhat dumb sometimes

They have their reasons

Dark age of technology was some scary shit

[umbral scaffold]

MG12 is the "sniper" variant, still fills that role nicely.
MG1A is the general use, it can do everything.
MG4 is the CQC lasgun.

[untold mulch]

Is a caveman slamming buttons in a Nuclear Reactor and hoping it doesn't causes a meltdown

Weren't lasguns pretty much for farmers?

[astral blade]

Technology is technology even if it’s dark age tech with enough time and study anyone can understand anything

[untold mulch]

They do not have the time

and DAOT tech was done alongside AI that did the heavy lifting

AI that is now outlawed

[umbral scaffold]

AI is now people

[untold mulch]

Machine Spirit 🙏

[astral blade]

AI is outlawed who stupid idea was that?

[limber lodge]

MECHINE GOD BE PRAYSED

[untold mulch]

The result of a machine revolt that almost wiped humanity!?

[umbral scaffold]

Emprah, rightfully so since the Men of Iron rebellion almost wiped out humanity.

[untold mulch]

I can see people being ehhh about it afterwards

Tbf, as usual in 40k

is filled with ignorance

probably a lot of warp interefrence

[astral blade]

Seriously how bad did the 40k morons treat ai?

[untold mulch]

and a considearble amount of men of iron fought for humanity

[untold mulch]

You are assuming it was treated bad

when CHAOS corruption exists

[limber lodge]

yes yes blame the psyker why dount you

[untold mulch]

Them and the damn elves smh

But that, chaos is a thing

[astral blade]

Point taken but there can always be counter measures against that sort of shit

[limber lodge]

wow wow wow dount lump me in with the knife ears

[untold mulch]

Warp was slightly better back then, os it was less of a concern

and then the karking aeldari partied too hard

[astral blade]

Did the imperium of man at least treat the ai good?

[untold mulch]

I am not sure, I suppose so? DAOT humanity was stupid comfy

[astral blade]

Or were they just used and abused

[untold mulch]

All narration just speaks like Men of Iron just randomly revolted, I assume is let for everyone to give an interpretation

[tardy vigil]

been along time since i've read up on the DAOT and what not, but that sentient man of iron that was discovered seemed amicable to the humanity of then and absolutely hates what they've become

[untold mulch]

with chaos existing, I see it easy to assume

[untold mulch]

So, DAOT humanity were nice, good to know

Also love that Man Of Iron that just goes around with an aquila on his chest so people don't bother him

I am clearly remotely controlled by a techpriest

[astral blade]

This may sound kind of stupid but any sort of technology I do have a fascination for even if it’s fictional

So it hurts to know that chaos corrupted ai/man of iron

[gusty bison]

Chaos corrupts everything

[acoustic wyvern]

the imperium of man has no defense against chaos malware

[untold mulch]

Thats the thing about Chaos

[untold mulch]

Also, completely same

[acoustic wyvern]

its like malware but you gave it aids and heroin

[untold mulch]

[midnight patrol]

It's all based around religion. Literally.

[astral blade]

Well never being the religious sort

Would probably be classed as a heretic

[untold mulch]

The funni part of tech in 40k

is that all the prayers of the mechanicus do work at some level

[strange grove]

At least the emperor of man actually did good things for humanity

I'd trade all our shit world leaders for the Big E

[glass pumice]

well might be the act during the prayer honestly like changing the thrice blessed oil with chants might also work without the chants etc.

[astral blade]

Big E also fûcked over humanity

[strange grove]

HOw?

[untold mulch]

Big E only became overt after the Aeldari fucked over humanity

[acoustic wyvern]

no no magnus fucked over humanity

[glass pumice]

nah humanity was already in a bad shape big E tried to save it and it nearly worked until well Chaos

[untold mulch]

THATS AFTER

DAOT humanity was vibing

Slaanesh birth fucked everything up

Emperor steps up

[astral blade]

I retract my previous statement than

[acoustic wyvern]

but thats not big e's fault isnt it

[strange grove]

We are in our own Age of Strife rn imo

[untold mulch]

crusade happens
magnus did something wrong

[tardy vigil]

sentient ai titan on an stc moment

[junior grail]

How viable is Covering Fire talent? Melee Vet build btw

[untold mulch]

YEP

[strange grove]

take with shotguns?

[astral blade]

Still those I don’t see why prayers should help with the technology side of things

[untold mulch]

But that, Emperor may not have been anything close to perfect

but without him, post DAOT humanity didn't stand a chance

[junior grail]

Revolver, but curious to try with shotgun too. Just not sure what kind of shotgun to build

[tardy vigil]

Covering Fire is the one that gives toughness to allies 8m near the target when its killed by range right?

[strange grove]

Agri has the best sniping capability, Kant does most damage, lawbringer in the middle

[untold mulch]

Because at the same time that the warp corrupts

warp also can be used to reinforce

Belief in 40k universe is palpable

can be weaponized

[glass pumice]

warp stuff, but mostly its because Oral tradition it would work without the prayers just that the AM is too headstrong on Religion same with humanity

[acoustic wyvern]

have you not heard of + holy dmg and defense

[untold mulch]

also, some of the old tech, there is the chance that the "prayers" are basically command instructions to work

[junior grail]

Blessings? Ive known meta to be NoResp and FullBore but saw some argument for ManStopper and Flechette

[strange grove]

I've yet to even see a flchette lol

[untold mulch]

same

[strange grove]

I run the two you listed

[acoustic wyvern]

actually guys, stop trying to make sense of the universe

[thick kestrel]

it should be noted that EVERYTHING in 40k is provided by unreliable narrators. it's all intentionally vague and contradictory, Big E is 100% included in that.

it is 100% correct to look at the imperium and the great crusade with the Imperium as the villains, but it's also correct to see them as a positive "freeing" force, the setting is intentionally vague on the truth of the matter.

[acoustic wyvern]

the inquisition does not like questions

[thick kestrel]

don't presume there's a unified correct cannon because, even within the setting, there isn't one

[astral blade]

….wouldn’t it make more sense to document the instructions instead of by word of mouth

[strange grove]

which is fine, black and white good guys and villians are boring as fuck

[acoustic wyvern]

the canon is what everyone likes the most

[untold mulch]

Is part of the narrative decision

that way, you can retcon

is a 40+ year franchise with basically no reboot

it works somewhat

[junior grail]

I liked it when 40K was mysterious and had missing info we had to speculate to fill

[astral blade]

Ugh 😑 man can’t even actual proper logic in the 40k verse because shit don’t make sense

[timid otter]

The god emperor was willing to sacrifice himself for humanity entrenched upon a torture device for ten thousand years

[junior grail]

Now its cool that Big E is actually alive and well but I liked the intrigue that "what if" Big E has been dead all the while or is getting worse

[untold mulch]

Abandon all logic

Know only war

[gaunt hinge]

Theres zero chance he was actually dead

[topaz lance]

I was relistening to the Eisenhorn books and at the end there's this big reveal of what should be one of the missing legions daddies'; but no, it's a known character instead of course. Lame. Doesn't really fit the conversation, just wanted to rant.

[astral blade]

Can’t do logic is basically part of who I am making choices that have the best outcomes and the possible safest and most logical outcome is what generally how you would survive

[junior grail]

Now there's none, back then it was a 0.01% chance. Even that was pretty cool

I like my open choices

[midnight patrol]

Part of the actual lore is Standard Template Constructs were the only hard data that survived the centuries to millennia of war and decay.

These surviving STCs are incredibly rare. And considered literally holy artifacts

To innovate or modify them is to question the Omnisiah's blessings.

And that's why humanity is in such a sump

They actively refuse to innovate and invent

[jolly jacinth]

STC = STL files

[thick kestrel]

aye, but part of the trick is that the Admech are one of the reasons everything is falling apart. they are the guardians of technology and manufacturing... but they don't understand what they're working with in any real sense. they don't invent, they maintain. to create new things is blasphemy as all knowledge has been provided by the machine god. new technology cannot be invented, knowledge can only be "found".

so as the Admech lose resources, knowledge etc they make no effort to "discover" new stuff. they have memorised the instructions as a form of prayer/dogma and to question that is to reject the machine god. so the imperium and humanity continues to fall apart and dwindle... because to try and fix that is heretical.

one of the key overarching themes of the imperium is that it's falling apart/rotting from the inside and has been doing so since it's inception, even before the emperor went on the throne. by all rights the Imperium is/was the bad guys winning in terms of humanity reuniting after the age of strife... but it's so big that it's in a perpetual state of falling over.

there are small glimmers of hope which flare up here and there but the imperium itself does as much work to stamp those out than it's enemies do.

[jolly jacinth]

fight meeh

[junior grail]

One of the few who do, Belisarius Cawl is seen as a borderline heretek

[glass pumice]

well they actually do invent and innovate but Extremely slow and the the Admech keeps all the shiny stuff for themself

[flint garden]

when giving helbore better sights is an act of heresy

[midnight patrol]

Also the Ad Mech are assholes. They hoarde all the actually good tech and don't share it with most of the Imperium.

Ad Mech ships have building sized autoloader for their mega cannons.

What does the Imperial Navy have to contend with? Gun crews. In the hundreds. Per gun.

[tender rose]

The imperium is stuck living in the corpses of the dark age of technology. Mainly because of the mechanicus.

[midnight patrol]

It's a very grim dark setting for the sake of it rofl.

[river escarp]

We change Slaughterer for Brutal Momentum or Cycler ?

[untold mulch]

Funny because Mechanicus is also keeping it alive

[astral blade]

So you mean to tell me no one even bothered making back up copies

[untold mulch]

Damned if you do

Damned if you dont

[glass pumice]

well some navy Vessels do get autoloaders but that basically on a per ship basis, aka out of 1000 BBs one might have them depending on how the AM feels that day

[junior grail]

Its the backup copies humanity is trying to recover haha

[thick kestrel]

there's also the whole thing with the Admech being... not "quite" part of the imperium... it's a complex web of alliances and agreements where you basically have two separate empires sitting "on top" of eachother and working together... most of the time?

the Emperor wanted guns, he made a deal with Mars to get them and didn't really care about the long term consequences (which is the Emperor in a nutshell, having things explode in his face through arrogance was kind of his thing)

[junior grail]

Originals were mostly destroyed, presumably by the Men of Iron uprising

[midnight patrol]

They make backups. Of the surviving STCs lol

[river escarp]

You could go on an Expedition to the Mars Underworld one of the most dangerous places in the Universe to recover some copies, but its filled with Rogue AI

[astral blade]

Fuck sakes so at the end of the day Big E Is just an arrogant son of a bîtch

[acoustic wyvern]

tape a lasgun together and you get a twin lasgun

[midnight patrol]

The stuff that poofed is poofed

[junior grail]

Humanity suffered not one, not two, but THREE galactic wide calamities before collapsing from an advanced civilisation to mad max level mess

[forest maple]

Isnt he the only sane ultra omega alpha psyker though?

[junior grail]

AI Revolt
Warp Storms
Alien Betrayal

[astral blade]

So my last question is can all of humanity problems be traced back to the god emperor

[river escarp]

40K Lore on Tech is like every IT that I know of. A bunch of novices working on a 30 year old server and have no clue on how everything works, and just pray that the servers don't go down

[thick kestrel]

a dead soul devouring arrogant son of a bitch worshipped as a god who's the reason the imperium is still kind of together? yeah pretty much ^^

[glass pumice]

less arrogant more extremely old he was borne far before the Roman Empire even existed as a city

[untold mulch]

People be forgetting humanity shouldn't be alive

[thick kestrel]

not ALL... but a lot of the current situation? yeah

[untold mulch]

AI revolt wasn't his fault
Warp Storm wasn't his fault
Alien Betrayal wasn't his fault

All the heresy shit? Yeah it was kinda his

so 1 out of 4

not good not terrible

[midnight patrol]

Sane? Not anymore by a long shot

His mind has been shattered into uncountable fragments

[glass pumice]

also the Heresy thing was only half his fault there were a lot of other actory like Erebus too

[junior grail]

Emperor was in a way "created" to combat the Chaos Gods which were preying on humanity who had no psychic guardian powerful enough to protect them.

So its all circumstance with noone and everyone to blame

[midnight patrol]

The loner psyker claims to have one auch fragment following him about.

[untold mulch]

Luckly looks like some part of starchild or smth, with the Emperor being jovial or smth

[junior grail]

Big E fragment be like, "This ones funny, lets annoy him summore"

[untold mulch]

his compassion and all of that

[clear lark]

afaik the emperor made it quite clear not to forma cultish following for him

[astral blade]

Fuck sakes with all that knowledge and power ya think Big W would have done a whole lot more

[untold mulch]

Biggest fuck up of E was being a shit father

[odd sparrow]

Absolutely not. Psykers and, men of iron and desert state of terra all happened before big E took up arms

[tender rose]

The emperor is an atheist.

[untold mulch]

More likely it is

[tardy vigil]

Depends on how much you subscribe to the dark god theory for 40k and the 5th chaos god ascencion

[clear lark]

in a way he was

[untold mulch]

Monthy python sketch

I am not the messiah

[thick rose]

laspistol is cool but I think ill choose the health of my hand over using it

[forest maple]

So whats next for humanity in 40k lore?

[tardy vigil]

pain

[junior grail]

Think of it like this, Big E lived through a long time and retained what he could.

Imagine if theres a calamity now, and we lived through the creation of the internet, computers and smartphones. Would we be able to retain every single bit of knowledge of them? Even the brightest would struggle.

[forest maple]

emperor will keep draining psykers indefinetely?

[untold mulch]

If on PC, FullAuto mod is needed

[odd sparrow]

Install the autofire mod

[tender rose]

His entire arc during the crusade was to eradicate religion.

[astral blade]

So if big E showed up before all these events took place do y’all think he could have prevented this?

[clear lark]

just said hey, dont do all this war and bigotry stuff past realigions did, for me.

then they eventually just did that

[untold mulch]

Gain time until more primarchs appear from their milk run

[thick kestrel]

yeah there's... quite a lot of information suggesting that there was quite a lot of "decent" and "stable" outposts of humanity who could have done a ton to help keep things together which the Emperor ALSO wiped out and destroyed because they didn't want to join up with the imperium.

the trick to remember is that yeah, the Emperor was a super powerful psyker with incredibly technology at his disposal who united humanity... but he did so with the barrel of a gun, a lot of genocide and a lot of shitty ideas.

he wasn't the one who defeated the technobarbarians... he's the technobarbarian who came out on top.

he wasn't the good guy, that isn't 40k's thing ^^

[thick rose]

is that mod on nexus or the discord?

(full auto)

[clear lark]

nexus

iirc

[junior grail]

He was around but what he was doing is lost to time. Imo he was trying his best to combat the calamities while incognito before the last one hit and he went "Fine, I'll do it myself"

[glass pumice]

also there is a huge problem in what knowledge to share a good example is Dynamite origally intended for Mining but People were like oh it can dig Mines cool so it can also blow up Fortress Walls

[thick kestrel]

worth noting that our source on this is the emperor himself :>

[tardy vigil]

Which primarchs could even come back at this point, Khan and Vulkan?

[jolly jacinth]

https://tenor.com/view/warhammer-40k-itehattsd-salamanders-he-stan-gif-17102166

[astral blade]

Shouldn’t have being incognito to begin with

[midnight patrol]

Vulcan would be kinda half Ork but he has the best chance yeah

[junior grail]

It is? I just assumed so, don't remember anywhere stating that he mentioned it

[odd sparrow]

Vulkan, khan, leman, several of the chaos primarchs

[untold mulch]

Yep

[thick kestrel]

(I am 100% being tzeentches advocate here to note, but it's important thing to remember that again, all information within 40k is intended to be propaganda from the various factions, everything is true... everything is a lie... most of it is lies ^^)

[glass pumice]

so instead of incognito he should have gone there look i am Neo-Jesus follow me and serve me...

[tardy vigil]

lmao, forgot about russ, but shouldn't he end up suffering the same fate as corvus and becoming a warp entity?

[astral blade]

Yes basically

[thick kestrel]

Luetin09 on youtube is the man to listen to for the more... esoteric deep dives on the nature of the Emperor and the Imperium

[junior grail]

So become a dictator ruler of Humanity from earlier on? Also humans were doing fine while he was incognito for thousands of years before

[junior grail]

Crucifying Big E would be a little awkward, to say the least haha

"Can we get a bigger cross? MF is 10 feet tall"