veteran-class

[south garnet]

I guess they took away hand cannon affecting blanket attacks

[tiny summit]

Also with that talent, you just start getting stacks whenever you sit still too. You can always have stacks pre any encounter. If you're worrying about min-maxing stack uptime it sounds like shit but when I get my moments to use my stacks I see the difference. Also crouch dodging doesn't lose stacks. If as Vets we can deal with talents that require no enemies in a certain radius to get our bonuses, you can adjust your positioning and pacing to make use of stacks

[south garnet]

Which is fine, I'm fine with actual unintended bugs going

[quaint valve]

Is exhil takedown fixed?

[south garnet]

no

lol

[south spindle]

I know I am, it sucks to be good at build making an theorycrafting, it really does

[spark helm]

Oh. I mean the rending part is just something I use to help with clapping flak rangers, nothing more tbh. I take the 15 stack one often or the toughness one

[untold mulch]

Smth smth

Players are very good at spotting that something is wrong

but at terrible at pinpointing why

[quaint valve]

one can hope

[south garnet]

anything that benefits the player will be crushed before anything that fucks over the player

[spark helm]

Wait I don't think yoy can since the 15 one locks uh the toughness inthink

[south garnet]

as a general rule

[oak lion]

something something superiority complex something something

[odd wind]

the 15 stack talent locks the auto stack gen

so u either get 15 stacks or u get auto generating stacks

[south spindle]

I'll let you in on a little secret... its called bait

[delicate moat]

so I has a question: do you think you get better damage buff/utility over an entire map with marksman focus or the middle tree?

I feel like middle tree might be more consistent?

[odd wind]

i was using 15 stacks but i'll try auto gen

[tiny summit]

Yea I dunno how I feel about the 15 stacks or rending at min 10 stacks

[south garnet]

middle

[oak lion]

if all you post is bait at a certain point it becomes just stupidity

[brisk umbra]

mini update?

[cosmic aurora]

I think if you are using an infantry lasgun or autogun the left tree is pretty good. Middle tree is probably more consistent

[tiny summit]

Couple bug fixes

[spark helm]

Pretty much this statement as well for the piggyback off what I replied earlier @odd wind

[south spindle]

As does constantly crying about being nerfed when everyone else was fully aware that most Vet mains were coasting on what was effectively godmode for ten months an cant handle the power levels being equalised 😉

[cosmic aurora]

Nah just got fix and they included some patch notes they forgot

[gaunt hinge]

the funny reload build https://medal.tv/games/warhammer-40000-darktide/clips/1E66akrkXLAgpH/d1337n1Q8b3F?invite=cr-MSx4TDUsNjY5MDkzMzMs

[brisk umbra]

and they still haven't fixed it

[spark helm]

I take the 15 stacks strictly because I usually can guarantee holding on to 10+ at a given moment. It's for the abundance and less the stats.

[ruby fulcrum]

I mean the why is obvious. Exhilarating takedown is bugged. Confirmed kill is nerfed. Iron will is much harder to fit into a build. Voice of command nerfed

[south garnet]

I saw possibly the most ridiculous left tree build lastnight - a guy with a brauto who would stand in one place and swivel back and forth with alt fire braced into hordes on auric dam. He burned through nearly every ammo pickup all by himself, did virtually nothing, and died four times

[untold mulch]

Yep

[oak lion]

sure i also think the outrage is a bit overblown but what power equalization? I've been told on many occasions by people almost as smug and annoying as you that Ogryn is god mode and better than every class at every thing. But where are Ogryn nerfs?

[proper delta]

does rending affect unyielding?

[south spindle]

@oak lion Just to further the point, game i had with a pal yesterday, i would say thats pretty equal, wouldnt you?

[south garnet]

The one time he picked anyone up, he crouched and crabwalked over to them lol

[untold mulch]

TURRET MODE ENGAGED

[gaunt hinge]

still probably worse than my goofy shotty build

[south garnet]

LITERALLY

[odd wind]

yea i used 15 too, but i think its way too much risk for the reward

[spark helm]

And again, using the crouch walk to sort of sprinkle my stack flexibility because there's legit plenty of reasons why you'd want to crouch anyway. Like the crouch dodge tech since you get maybe like...2 stacks just for doing it

[odd wind]

u miss a few shots while dodging and that's it

[tiny summit]

Tried out the stealth/weapon specialist with revolver. You know what, getting 1 melee kill to reload 1 shot in the revolver and constantly swapping back and forth is fun. Dump my revolver in an encounter, swap to melee for horde, see a trapper running in the back, swap to instant loaded revolver, pop them and then back to the horde

[odd wind]

and thats assuming ur weakspot hit was a kill

[untold mulch]

Bad design causes bad habits on bad players

More news at eleven

[cosmic aurora]

Just take some adderal and ENGAGE TARGETS don’t miss

[delicate moat]

i think they should merge camo into marksman focus base

[odd wind]

true

[spark helm]

That would actually be solid.

[oak lion]

seems aight

[delicate moat]

15 stacks pick should be additional to marksman base with camo as an extra point investment

[odd wind]

its either camo is merged into marksman base

or weakspot hits adds stacks instead of kills

[south garnet]

the thing is that I figured people would understand how to shake out a build using it, but effectively playing more or less normally. I did not expect to see some smoothbrain transform into a stationary turret with a brauto the second poxwalkers showed up lmao

and then get downed by them immediately

[spark helm]

When I take 15 I'm not seeking the 15 anyway. It either happens or it doesn't..but the overflow after 10 is more than helpful.

[south garnet]

Like, laspistol is alright with left tree

[south spindle]

Oh im fully aware that Ogg needs nerfs because its been flying under the radar since P13, which is why i havent personally been playing him, same for Psyker till now, an im still not enthralled about how Assail works due to it being a fucking aimbot. Don't get me wrong, whilst i dont think Vet is broken by the changes, i'm also very aware of what is currently broken/OP

[south garnet]

Staying mobile

[untold mulch]

That brings back the issue that the MARKSMAN keystone is better iwth fullauto magdump

[spark helm]

That's them playing off a tool tip too hard and not actually thinking.

Imma just say it

[south garnet]

yea

[odd wind]

finesse power only gives extra damage to weakspots yea?

[spark helm]

Yes

[untold mulch]

and crits

I think

[willow badger]

nani THey neerfed more vet talents

[spark helm]

And crits

Yeah it's crits

[willow badger]

why must they do us so

[untold mulch]

Is the same nerfs we got before

now is written

[delicate moat]

no just forgor patch notes

[untold mulch]

READ

[willow badger]

oh i c

[untold mulch]

[tiny summit]

Because we're the emperors finest, he needs us to be challenged

[glacial ermine]

Shoutouts to the brave fatshark devs that sitll in a hotfix could not fix the single letter thats breaking exhilerating takedown

[spark helm]

Only thing I haven't tried is hellbore and some autoguns and axes.

[untold mulch]

They lost the - letter still finding it

[south garnet]

but they DID have time to fix hand cannon applying to other weps

[odd wind]

i mean it doesn't really make sense to me then, cuz u just get a ton of overkill damage on regular trash mobs, and mk12 doesn't really counter maulers even with max stacks anyway

[spark helm]

I also just wouldn't use hellbore back then anyway so I never learned how to flow with it.

[delicate moat]

marksman focus must be easier to maintain in lower difficulty

[topaz lance]

How are shotguns now?

[serene sage]

why are they calling it a hotfix when it's just bug fix the balance changes were already in the game

[oak lion]

Yeah i was a Psyker main pre patch 13 and trying assail made me a Zealot main lol. Honestly though, i am not even upset about number nerfs on Veteran i just hate how instead of reducing the point tax they made it worse. If i want to run a keystone on the build i had before this patch i'd need 33 points and would miss some stuff they moved elsewhere

[glacial ermine]

still outclassed by plasma tbh

[spark helm]

I've had okay times with weapon specialist and shotty but I have to build my shotty better first tbh

[tiny summit]

The moment you give some players behavior to mix-max you will see changes

[south garnet]

hotfix to the patch notes. notefix

[odd wind]

i mean the reload speed buff is honestly negligible on lasgun yea, it reloads quick already 15% won't make a difference, i'm just curious if 10-15 stacks of marksman focus actually hits any breakpoints

[spark helm]

The utility of the shotgun still kine of feels like you might have more success with plasma but if you're committing, I play shotty closer to vt2 blunderbuss. If I'm not in a solid position to let it go nuts I don't bother. But with weapon specialist you don't need to out in a lot of effort to get started with your momentum on quick swapping and say, quick dropping a mauler or crusher

[south spindle]

that is legit the biggest issue right now, remove some of the minor nodes an the class is set to be fuckin dope, both in practice an how fun it is to play. Them three horizontal rows of minor nodes need to go down to two points per row instead of three, an one minor node from the bottom branches needs to go, bang, class is fixed an is totally set for further content

[odd wind]

cuz if exe stance lasgun already one shots gunners and shotgunners

[tiny summit]

Tried marksman with my hellbore. Dunno if I was feeling the stacks or the hellbore was just doing its job like before.

[spark helm]

You already should be getting breakpoints before the stack from what some have shown in footage. Its not required (thankfully because then I'd have a problem)

[timid otter]

Comeon zealot, veteran are not equal in class power.

[odd wind]

yea that's what i mean, so marksman focus is just more for toughness regen than effective damage output

[spark helm]

I usually would go infiltrate on hellbore since I didn't like the rhythm of it too much. I also had problems with remembering that I didn't need a full charge to drop something.

[serene sage]

vraks 7 can one shot flamer on 10 stacks?

[tiny summit]

1 thing they have for vet is that you're not locked out of anything when taking certain paths. Costs points to get to the opposite side but you can do it.

[odd wind]

how about lasguns?

[spark helm]

The utility is typically more interesting to me than the raw dmg

[serene sage]

idk, i dont use las

hate em 😤

[odd wind]

only genestealer cults use autoguns btw

its on tabletop

so its true

[spark helm]

Flamers should be going down in like two headshots especially on exestance

[odd wind]

i oneshot flamers with exestance already

[zealous wyvern]

in exe stance flamers should be a oneshot

not a twoshot

[spark helm]

Yeah you mean out of stance?

[serene sage]

Vraks 7 should one shot in exec stance

[zealous wyvern]

that sounds horrible

[serene sage]

10 stacks will let you 1 shot out of

[odd wind]

both out of and in for me

[spark helm]

Okay wad just checking

[odd wind]

for mark 12 at least

[zealous wyvern]

flamers and gunners survive one headshot out of stance unless i use big guns

[spark helm]

No shade just got concerned fr lol

[slim ocean]

You think hadron is gonna let me get a pet servo skull anytime soon?

[tranquil basalt]

fun

[serene sage]

this has been the way for 2 days

nothing changed, it was already implemented from patch

[half path]

these arent new changes the patch notes do make it a bit confusing though

[oak lion]

I agree, still not the biggest fan of the 2 side trees but that's just bc i don't enjoy the playstyles. The point costs are my main gripe and what changes you offered seem very reasonable to me

[spark helm]

Most of the time my lasgun choice is the basic la infantry one. Prefer the uh...the one with faster ram and ammo cap for denser groups and flick shooting

La infantry never let me down yet tho

[tranquil basalt]

And Imo veteran has been feeling off for two days.
I dunno why they nerved him in the first place.
Like cmon theres more op problems in tide than this.

[spark helm]

:/

[odd wind]

nah its more fun now actually

[spark helm]

What are you doing in the first place and what content are you going into.

[south spindle]

Ye, thats it, point costs is really high, like on one hand it makes sense because of the how strong the keystones are, but it doesnt help build diversity none for sure

[slow spade]

"Vets had it good for too long"

[delicate moat]

i just dont like the non-keystone builds getting nerfed

[half path]

ive honestly not really saw the changes effect me much

[spark helm]

I will silently flame someone for saying that middle tree isn't strong.

[tranquil basalt]

With the traitor curse?
Or even beffore, because if the second thing is the case then I might just be tripping, because ever since the new update I am struggeling way more than I should with that class.

[spark helm]

That's a skill issue at that rate. Lol

[slow spade]

Just 3 more points, pls I beg you 😩

[half path]

still killing things as much as i did before
still able to do autic maelstroms
still crumble like paper in certain situations

[odd wind]

struggle is fun

just not struggling all the time :)

[tranquil basalt]

^

[spark helm]

What kind of struggle? You haven't been specific.

[delicate moat]

class struggle

[spark helm]

I've had to adjust one thing mostly with how I play using left tree.

[odd wind]

i think its just combination of new skill tree along with ramped up difficulty from the game

[serene sage]

I used to top damage (unless there is a kickback ogryn) with middle tree almost always
now it's either first or second most damage if I go full middle 😦

[forest breach]

So how long has exhiliriating takedown been bugged?

[spark helm]

That happens outside veebie game

[serene sage]

yes

[oak lion]

Yeah build diversity in update 13 is the reason i came back to this game so seeing vet have basicaly none is sad. One of the main reasons i like Zealot alot is bc i can do shit like this

[slow spade]

Lets be honest, 99% of damage is just poxwalker damage

[spark helm]

Oh meh, idc about scoreboards lol

[tranquil basalt]

Its hard to describe, thats why I said I might just be imagining it but his abilitys and movement feel alot less powerful and sluggish.
As I said, could just be me but I am going down and taking injurys way more often than before traitor curse now.

[slow spade]

Which is like "who cares lmao"

[odd wind]

funny thing is everyone on 2H chainsword is on this

either using stunstorm or immo grenades

[kind scarab]

I am on the brink of greatness with a really stupid build rn, but I need more plasteel

[south spindle]

Zealot deffo won the patch 100%, its both very strong, an not ridiculously overtuned, good diversity, loads of viable options an super fun to play

An man, that Crusher rework ❤️ cant put that shit down

[spark helm]

What you making?

[oak lion]

Yeah i would use the Eviscerator with this (if i had a good roll) i run the THammer though

[kind scarab]

A really stupid shotgun build

[topaz lance]

Crusher is great!

[kind scarab]

Like genuinely stupid

[slow spade]

If only Ogryn power maul got the same love :c

[solemn niche]

I went back to lasgun this patch

[kind scarab]

Like. Laughably stupid at how well it works.

[spark helm]

Lemme see some footage when you're done if u want to. I haven't figured out my shotty idea yet

[solemn niche]

accurate and very amnmo efficient, so i can avoid ammo aura

[oak lion]

what did they change? I remember not liking the weapon whatsoever

[kind scarab]

Will do

I just need like, another match worth of plasteel I think

Or two

[slow spade]

Unpowered attacks do fucktons of weakspot damage

[spark helm]

Run the big library one

That's how I've gotten hella plasteel usually.

[slow spade]

Powered for that stagger

[south spindle]

Its now a headshot machine, an they changed the moveset to be much more applicable in both single target and horde clear, they nerfed the AoE a bit to compensate. Highly recommend you pick it up again

[serene sage]

shotgun
stops reading

[half path]

honestly if fatshark gave me a hotshot lasgun they could kick my class down three flights of stairs and id still be happy
love those guns

[spark helm]

Just takes forever to get through it if you're searching

[tiny summit]

Vet still has build diversity? What are you talking about? I get that getting to keystones is an investment but you can literally still almost build like the keystone didn't exist. I have 2 vet loadouts without the keystones

[delicate moat]

i need whatever sniper has

[slow spade]

Yeah its just Vets doomposting

[half path]

long las which is in the game files apparently

[slow spade]

Its always going to happen

[oak lion]

Maybe i'll dust off the 2 good rolls i have in my inventory

[delicate moat]

pls new gun

[dim citrus]

Yup. As long as you ignore the big point of the update Vet is flexible and strong

[south spindle]

The point is you shouldnt really have to skip on keystones to achieve that build diversity. The class is super strong still, just a bit points heavy

[slow spade]

Phospherex when?

[kind scarab]

Hear me out. It slaps.

[serene sage]

no ❤️

[south spindle]

Agri' + Marksmans?

[kind scarab]

[dim citrus]

All the class needs now is more connections in the bottom part and less filler perks

[oak lion]

ok but what if i want build variety AND keystones?

[south spindle]

Ye boi, i been playing that too, every breakpoint bar two, an it feels so good to play

[kind scarab]

I'm already at the oneshot breakpoint on everything besides cara units

[spark helm]

Veteran is a localized case of fs design space imo. Fs has to virtually fundamentally rearrange this game to make a class like veteran struggle.

[serene sage]

the amount of effort DT players will go through so they don't use the bolter

[delicate moat]

just make it a fking grid ez solution

[oak lion]

speaking of shotguns is the Slug shotgun good at all?

[zealous wyvern]

you may not care about scoreboards but if this is a constant trend it proves that something has changed negatively for him

be it coincident or because of update

[dim citrus]

Like the single shot slug? I love it

My favourite sniper weapon

[zealous wyvern]

you cant just say "oh well numbers do not matter" if someone stops dealing as much damage as they did

[south spindle]

Do, let me know how you get on 🙂

[oak lion]

i've seen some use cases for the fire and horizontal spread but when i tried the slug one it did almost no damage even with a good roll

[zealous wyvern]

i doubt he plays for the scoreboard

it is an indicator

[frank ledge]

Great game

[grave cargo]

Sometimes yes

[spark helm]

I keep saying it but the fact is is that veteran literally encompasses the three sort of archetypes you'd have in vermintide 2 back then: ranged weapon specialist, melee frontliner, and speedy flanker/weapon burst rotation.

[tiny summit]

I see the vet tree atm is just different. Want the keystone? Well you're specialized. You guys are acting like your build pre keystones were deleted from existence

[south spindle]

Yeah it fucks mate, Marksman's Focus + Slugs, one shot breakpoints on everything except Mauler + Crusher

[grave cargo]

Sometimes I also barely touch poxwalkers and all my damage is from skullfucking shooter patrols and elites

[dim citrus]

That's because you don't use it as a shotgun

Never use the slug as a shotgun

[slow spade]

Considering Vet's damage potential increased, this update

[zealous wyvern]

the points were moved around, some important nodes are all the way down. some were deleted.some were nerfed

[slow spade]

Have you considered that maybe he's just not pointlessly swinging into hordes lol

[frank ledge]

Can-t enter the karking psykanium now

[zealous wyvern]

they did absolutely do something to the builds

[grave cargo]

You basically need to treat it as a DMR

[oak lion]

no i meant the slug part, although i didn't build for it i just tried it baseline

[frank ledge]

wtf happened to promps?

[dim citrus]

Did you hit headshots?

[grave cargo]

The slug shotty is pretty great for popping heads with or without the slugs

[fleet drift]

I really hate it that they changing node placement around

[oak lion]

i wish the shotgun special ammo was a swap instead of loading a single round

[grave cargo]

You do need to build it as such though

[topaz lance]

Agri would be very OP

[grave cargo]

If you take no bonus damage it is just shooting wax paper at enemies

[topaz lance]

but fun

[fleet drift]

Like the left tree don’t have any survivability at all now

[zealous wyvern]

1. reason why people are unsatisfied is not that it is bad. the reason they hate it is that veterans were hoping for this patch to fix the current issues. all that hope has turnt upside down now that itonly made the issues bigger

[oak lion]

yee but as i said i was doing that without any build for it

[zealous wyvern]

people had hope

[spark helm]

I'm not refuting that one, it's just that save for maybe a few specific builds, I've never seen veteran as the class I'd expect to top charts all the time all the time. Every other class in the game has that potential more immediately and I typically build my veteran with support utility in mind regardless of how im dealing dmg. And even if I'm not scoreboards or whatever, my name is either taking up the dead specialist lists or there's a distinct lack of us having to deal with anything with a gun.

[grave cargo]

Vet needs the most buffs yeah

[zealous wyvern]

the issue is not how bad it is now

[frank ledge]

Plasma firing causes a ctd...great game

[zealous wyvern]

the issue is that it was supposed to make things better

[vapid nacelle]

I finally tried out a support Vet build, it felt pretty good

[forest maple]

How's this roll looking?

[zealous wyvern]

not slightly worse

[fleet drift]

What issue?

[grave cargo]

He went from the weakest class to “I hope you like melee”

[slow spade]

I find it funny that they just doubled down on the issues Vet has lol

[zealous wyvern]

tree restrictions mainly

[grave cargo]

Melee vet unironically more reliable than gun vet

[tardy plaza]

I love voice of command

[zealous wyvern]

this

[grave cargo]

It’s Joever

[tiny summit]

Weird because I still have my 2 pre keystone builds utilizing 2 bottom halfs of the trees with the same core talents I wanted

[frank ledge]

Tree tax is bad on veteran

[proper delta]

any of these worth picking up?

[fleet drift]

It get even worse

[tall torrent]

veterans are point starved

[oak lion]

that's my main issue tbh, i was expecting a fix not a kick further down the point hell

[zealous wyvern]

then you got lucky

[grave cargo]

Nope

[delicate moat]

no

[grave cargo]

Chainswords want extra cleave

[fleet drift]

I need at least 10 more point

[slow spade]

Indeed, just look at this "tree" lmao

Its like straight down

[grave cargo]

Axes are obsolete

[delicate moat]

(1) has shit base stats

[grave cargo]

There’s like

[loud abyss]

Welp. Good thing that I already went Krieg with my lovely shovel anyways. Otherwise I might be pissed by the amount of nerfs vet got.

[umbral scaffold]

so, what blessings on a revolver? feel like it is one of the best weapons

[grave cargo]

0 reasons to ever take an axe on veteran now

[tiny summit]

It would be good if it was only slug. Well maybe that's harsh. It's OK but I'd love it more if it was like that

[zealous wyvern]

the only reason why i am not bothered by these changes is that i am fine with dying over and over

but others are not

[grave cargo]

Depends on if you’re doing a crit build or not

[zealous wyvern]

they want performance

[tall torrent]

Honestly, veteran deserves at least 3 more points if the current tree is not to be changed again

[zealous wyvern]

and i understand why

[oak lion]

tree? Do you mean a stick?

[grave cargo]

The biggest issue with Vet isn’t even that he’s specialized. It’s that the other characters aren’t

[zealous wyvern]

although i did hope for interesting keystones

[slow spade]

Imagine dying when you could live and serve the Emperor instead 💪

[grave cargo]

Zealot can be a DPS tank support

[slow spade]

Lol ikr

[zealous wyvern]

i do not try to die

[oak lion]

no everyone here agrees on that

[umbral scaffold]

i'm not

[grave cargo]

Ogryn can be a DPS tank support

[fleet drift]

Fore go keystone entirely kinda help somewhat

[zealous wyvern]

i just die when it gets too much

which is serving the emperor

[slow spade]

:p

[grave cargo]

Psyker can be a DPS so DPS that he comes tanky by just killing everything so fast

[tall torrent]

Middle keystone is pretty good to make up for lowered dmg and nerfed confirmed kill

[slow spade]

I was personally hoping for a grenade keystone

[oak lion]

I die in service of the emperor

[grave cargo]

Vet can be tanky or dps or support

[oak lion]

same, grenadier Vet is so fun

[loud abyss]

Vet feels like the jack of some traits, master of nothing right now.

[tiny summit]

Yea that's my main criticism. The keystones are just kinda there for me. Stacks are interesting but tagging with 1 stack for 4% extra damage is a joke

[grave cargo]

He can’t really mix those very effectively unless you don’t take keystones

And usually

Yeah the keystones aren’t worth

[slow spade]

Vet keystone: "get ogryn frag bombs"

[fleet drift]

The left side also make Bolter A LOT easier to wield as well

[slow spade]

Pls UwU

[untold mulch]

You can get up to +12% to the entire team with the subnode and spamming it

which is nice

[grave cargo]

Focus fire is “ok” but not great

Weapon specialist is great

We don’t talk about the other one.

[loud abyss]

Back to rushing from trench to trench using my shovel.

[grave cargo]

Absolute dogwater tier lmao

[delicate moat]

im really learning to appreciate smokes with the sheer quantity of gunners

[zealous wyvern]

1. vet has the most conditions to use their build
2. vet has too many nodes with too little points
3. vet did not need to have nodes nerfed except for maybe one
4. vet aura is completely stupid

[slow spade]

Ping keystone is likely the best...

[zealous wyvern]

ping is good

the only problem is having two vets bring it

[slim ocean]

Yeah I miss the 5% chance to gain a grenade for the team. It was great little support for the rest of the group. I guess ogryn can't be trusted with too many frags.

[slow spade]

Literally one of the strongest keystones if not the strongest...

[zealous wyvern]

not that bad though

[grave cargo]

Nah weapon specialist is by far the best

[proper delta]

does shovel get considerably better with uncanny strike / decimator

[grave cargo]

It gives you damage and toughness

[untold mulch]

I am saving that

[slow spade]

"You" its team-wide

[grave cargo]

You can get pseudo durability with weapon specialist

[oak lion]

Oh yeah i ran a build on Zealot that made me super tanky while having amazing horde clear, boss CC, decent boss damage and kept my team alive amazingly.

[tall torrent]

Have u tried tag keystone with all 3 modifiers

[grave cargo]

Focus fire is ok but not great

[slow spade]

Tag keystone is team-wide buffs

[grave cargo]

The problem is opportunity cost

[slow spade]

That's why its so good

[grave cargo]

It makes your team slightly better

It doesn’t make YOU much better

[fleet drift]

Ammo one is okay

[slow spade]

You get the buffs too...

[grave cargo]

Weapon specialist makes YOU much better

[grave cargo]

Sure but you’re getting like 15-20% better

[oak lion]

32% damage on an enemy only to then give everyone like 40% toughness and stamina + a 15% damage boost when you kill the enemy is not "slightly better" lol

[slow spade]

Bro you're clearly just down-playing how strong the ping keystone is

[grave cargo]

Which you can basically achieve with normal pips and not taking focus fire at all

[slow spade]

Weapon Specialist is good but don't dick ride it

[kind scarab]

MAN

[grave cargo]

If you take weapon specialist you basically get fucking twice as good

[kind scarab]

The fucking people I queued up with are GARBAGE

[tall torrent]

You’re looking at anywhere between 16~32% increased dmg against stuff u want to kill quickly not to mention the stamina & toughness regain

[fleet drift]

The left Keystone is very fun to use for me but it’s very very bad when play high intensity

[delicate moat]

mood

[oak lion]

quickplay moment

[slow spade]

Weapon Specialist isn't going to suck your dick lmao

[tiny summit]

That's my problem: up to...

I don't mind the stacks if fatshark wants them. My problem is the scaling of stacks. A single stack in a game where everyone is tagging shit for target priority, saving your stacks just feels kinda eh. Only reason I see it not feeling like ass is how quick the stacks come back

[grave cargo]

You’re looking at 10% most of the time

[kind scarab]

That's the problem, I only quickplay

[loud abyss]

At least I'm still borderline invincible with my stripped down 4 gun and way too much sprint efficiency and all the stamina.

[kind scarab]

and the game doesn't have a fucking system that keeps the smoothbrains out of higher difficulties

[grave cargo]

Occasionally something gets 32% sure that’s cool but also

[tall torrent]

8 stacks of redirect fire is 12% already

[untold mulch]

Yep

[grave cargo]

My zealot was already one shotting things

[delicate moat]

quickdie

[slow spade]

If you're going to complain at least be right

[kind scarab]

And there's no proper solo mode, so I can play without anyone, so I can just do shit on my own

[tiny summit]

It feels like it when I don't have to hit reload on my revolver an entire mission

[grave cargo]

Focus fire in this instance does NOTHING except generate a lil extra toughness

[gusty sonnet]

Just got the infamous "stealth player that runs ahead" last match

[untold mulch]

The harder it gets the more it will get you killed unless you act like its a buff you sometimes get

but paying 5+ points for getting sometimes a buff is.....

[kind scarab]

What am I wrong about

[scenic bronze]

Can we put the middle keystone at the top, it's nice having teammates that can ping for once

[slow spade]

Discord moment

[kind scarab]

Ahhh

[grave cargo]

It feels good but I assure you it’s largely a placebo effect because the opportunity cost of running focus fire is pretty wide

[kind scarab]

I have that happen to me too

[grave cargo]

Weapon specialist gives you great shit if that’s what you want

[fleet drift]

As of now I am forego the keystone entirely

[slow spade]

If you're going to complain, at least be correct

[oak lion]

by that logic then if Focus Target makes YOU 32% better weapon specialist makes YOU 64% better
but then Focus Target makes your entire team 32% better so that's 128% increase

[kind scarab]

I need to re-enable mods

[grave cargo]

It’s better than taking other pips instead

[untold mulch]

I only have a tag keystone build

The rest is no keystone

[kind scarab]

I completely forgot and don't have a scoreboard to show y'all how little they did

[grave cargo]

Weapon specialist gives you way more than just the damage boost

[slow spade]

Weapon Specialist is only for yourself and conditional

Ping is team-wide

[grave cargo]

Gives you way more toughness

[oak lion]

sure but it only gives to you

[grave cargo]

Gives you more veteran per veteran

[fleet drift]

That tag ping sound constantly crying make me feel annoyed sometimes

[delicate moat]

AM has like the biggest difference between good randos and awful randos

[oak lion]

unless weapon specialist is 4x+ better then a teamwide buff is better

[grave cargo]

It’s basically “do you want to double your DPS or increase team DPS by about 15%”

[kind scarab]

Ping keystone on average gives you 1.3 extra teammates worth of damage, and gives everyone stamina + toughness if you picked the other nodes

It's more team per team

[delicate moat]

sometimes u get good teammates AM is easier than normal damnation

[kind scarab]

[slow spade]

"Double dps"

[grave cargo]

You’ll get more damage if you do weapon specialist overall

[slow spade]

Now you're just lying about weapon specialist lol

[delicate moat]

sometimes 5 teammates quit at first encounter

[forest maple]

Damn i took a full left tree build on an auric mission... Its so bad damn it

[tiny summit]

Has anyone tried that weapon specialist node giving you toughness and the node that regens toughness for the team together?

[loud abyss]

Sometimes I wonder how the game would be if things that underperform get buffed instead of things that might perform good enough get 12 nerfs in a single patch. Or if the game got playtested before updates.

[proven coral]

Wait, they hotfixed the veteran talents by nerfing almost everything?

[grave cargo]

Focus fire isn’t bad it’s just like, you’re the guys overselling it here

[kind scarab]

That node doesn't work the way you think

[fleet drift]

No survival skill

[grave cargo]

No but actually yes

[kind scarab]

You need to not have toughness to regen toughness for the team

[slow spade]

You're literally lying and saying incorrect data that people have to correct below you

Stfu

[kind scarab]

Game does get playtested

[frank ether]

already happened changes

[grave cargo]

Wrong

[kind scarab]

Fatshark just doesn't listen to them enough

[slow spade]

Go back to #ogryn-class

Or some shit

[tiny summit]

That are the patch notes that were left out

[grave cargo]

I don’t play ogryn so no

I need to

[tall torrent]

Weapon specialist does not give you extra damage?
It’s crit chance lol

[proven coral]

Oh ok lol

[grave cargo]

He’s fucking busted as shit

[forest maple]

I literally see zero reason to bring either excecutioners stance builds or the leftmost keystone instead of shout or infil

[grave cargo]

Do you

Know what crits do

[frank ether]

for your first shot only

[tall torrent]

Yea, it’s only first shot or chain

[loud abyss]

Yes it does - by us, not a single employee gets paid enough to run tests.

[grave cargo]

Plus it gives you increased attack speed

[oak lion]

to be fair the "buff weak things so you never need to nerf" approach creates alot of problems in the long term

[odd wind]

i just tried las gun with left tree again

[slow spade]

Executioner for the new shooter hordes these days

[odd wind]

still not working

LOL

[grave cargo]

DPS is damage per second

[frank ether]

so practically worthless for a lot of guns out there

[odd wind]

one ogryn walks in front of you and u have to spend stacks moving away

[gusty sonnet]

it wasnt even a hotfix really, it's just a log of the thing they change yesterday.
Just in case they want to revert to old tree.

[grave cargo]

Weapon specialist dramatically increases your DPS as well as that entire tree line

[frank ether]

the rate of fire is good though

[fast scaffold]

Just download the mod that lets you auto dc with certain conditions if qp is getting you down

[fleet drift]

30% weak spot damage is worth some investment in my opinion

[kind scarab]

Nah, we're the sad fuckers who have to take whatever Fatshark pushed out after ignoring the actual playtesters (who also don't get payed)

[loud abyss]

Go ahead. Use the chainaxe then.

[grave cargo]

Right tree vet will do LODSADAMAGE more than a shout vet

[tall torrent]

For revolver sure
For automatics 1 crit chain is not as impactful?

[slow spade]

Depends on gun

[forest maple]

I take that regardless of build

[grave cargo]

Absolutely incorrect

[delicate moat]

???

[grave cargo]

Brauto crits have increased penetration on top of damage

[slow spade]

All crits do increased pen

[fleet drift]

They moving it up is one of the few good thing about this patch

[grave cargo]

You do like

[oak lion]

i didn't say "never buff" lol, the chain axe needs help

[umbral scaffold]

is exhilarating takedown fixed?

[kind scarab]

No

[slow spade]

No

[forest maple]

no

[umbral scaffold]

wtf?

[grave cargo]

40% more damage with a brauto crit over not

[fleet drift]

No

[grave cargo]

Even on a bodyshot

[serene sage]

No

[umbral scaffold]

fuck this gay earth

[quasi dust]

well ofc when shout is a defensive ability and infil increases your dps...

[umbral scaffold]

can't have shit

[loud abyss]

Don't worry! We get paid in literally the same piss ugly helmet with different paint on it instead. 3 times by now!

[delicate moat]

rn it's exhausting takedown

[slow spade]

Exhilarating Takedown would make sharpshooter so much better

God Fatshark pls

[oak lion]

but a shout vet buffs your entire team while keeping everyone alive

[slow spade]

He's just braindead ignore him

[grave cargo]

Sure but it just comes down to

[fleet drift]

Time for you to cast Harm on lean fish

[slow spade]

Doesn't even know the shit he "claims" is good

[grave cargo]

Do you want to be twice as good or make your team slightly better

[fast scaffold]

Did anyone check if ET is fixed? It could have not made it into the patch notes like the other stuff last time

[kind scarab]

At least we can use the helmet to protect our skulls when we bash it into a wall, from all the lack of listening they do to our suggestions

[loud abyss]

That's what I meant. Buff the god awful shit before you nerf the good stuff down to it's level because it overperforms.

[grave cargo]

Personally I have a better success rate when I just go right tree

[umbral scaffold]

I'm thinking black orb

[quasi dust]

found the selfish vet lol

[umbral scaffold]

mfs had it good for too long

[slow spade]

Yes, someone did a test video

Still bugged

[grave cargo]

Because actually pulling your own weight is generally better than relying on randos

[forest maple]

So, do we collectively agree that shout is king atm? What about keystones? Focus target or specialist?

[tall torrent]

If the breakpoints are not as good, that extra attack speed does not net you better TTK

[grave cargo]

run support vet

[kind scarab]

Pulling your own weight won't replace 3 other shitters doing piss poor.

[oak lion]

as i said, if WS makes you twice as good as Focus Target does then focus Target still has more output because it makes 4 people half as good as WS does.

[grave cargo]

psyker kills himself

[umbral scaffold]

so any hopium for veteran being changed for the part 2 update?

[tranquil basalt]

Seize.

[grave cargo]

zealot runs into 20 ragers and dies

[quasi dust]

are yuo implying shout vet doesnt carry own weight?

[umbral scaffold]

or is this a patch 16-17 fix?

[grave cargo]

ogryn stands in front of me blocking all my shots

[delicate moat]

i love having shout vets

[serene sage]

True but middle vet can do a lot of damage still

[kind scarab]

Prolly 16-17

[oak lion]

Shout vet not only carries his own weight but also makes it easier for the people who can't to do so

[delicate moat]

i feel naked without shouty

[umbral scaffold]

man

[slow spade]

Ping is universally good

Left is good with Laspistol and similar

Right is good with revolver and hard to work with other weapons (constant weapon swapping with helbore lmao)

[quasi dust]

cause thats a player skill issue, not ability chosen

[delicate moat]

more damage is useless if you're dead

[slow spade]

Ping is particularly good due to it being team-wide buffs

[grave cargo]

You just mostly rely on your base weapons though

[dawn yacht]

It's also a hassle

[forest maple]

I take middle for laspistol and i dip left for shocktrooper and weakspot

[loud abyss]

At least the devs stopped to make Ogryn worse at every patch since the perk rework. It's Veteran time.

[fleet garden]

so hotfix is all nerfs?

[dawn yacht]

Not pinging mobs to stack up the debuff is a bit sus

[grave cargo]

Valid. Because most weapons are a lot better than they used to be

[umbral scaffold]

no?

[tall torrent]

No, just added in the missing notes

[umbral scaffold]

idk what these patch notes are for

[dawn yacht]

There were some buffs but they did kinda shit on vet again for seemingly no reason

[fleet garden]

ah

[fast scaffold]

Hotfix only added two map changes for performance stuff

[tall torrent]

Stuff that weren’t mentioned in the Patch15 notes

[grave cargo]

But people are creaming over 30% bonus damage to one guy and 12% damage to poxwalkers

[fallow compass]

They arent new nerfs, they are just ones that werent listed

[tall torrent]

But did go into effect in Patch15

[serene sage]

I actually build nades lmao

[fallow compass]

also that

[oak lion]

like let's say i carry 1 of my weight and my team carries -0.5 of their weight
if i use weapon specialist to carry 2 of my own weight then that's still -0.5 overall
if i use shout vet to increase that for everyone by 0.5 then that's 1.5 overall

it's not that hard to understand

[umbral scaffold]

I like crossplay

[grave cargo]

Like

Sharpshooter

Fucks

Just don’t get hit

[dawn yacht]

Then why didn't they just post it later instead of lumping it in with a hotfix?

[umbral scaffold]

but man, they can't immediately patch shit because of crossplay

[quasi dust]

vets were doing really well post patch 15 and pre latest hotfix. fatshark gave us a few weeks to have fun lol

[grave cargo]

You’ll do more damage in 5 minutes than the damage boost from focus fire does the entire match

It’s just good god are you made of paper

[loud abyss]

Found the heretic.

[umbral scaffold]

Dodge

[oak lion]

Crossplay has made the game unbearable without friends

[grave cargo]

The main benefit of the right tree and weapon specialist is it’s the only way for vet to get a decent amount of damage and survivability

[umbral scaffold]

Make friends then

[dawn yacht]

One does not "just make friends"

[untold mulch]

Friendship is magic

[oak lion]

i have friends they're just not online 24/7

[cosmic aurora]

Still having fun post patches

[untold mulch]

and magic is heresy

[grave cargo]

Otherwise you’re either kinda tanky but not doing much damage or you’re doing damage and that’s it

[serene sage]

Vet tree is fucked, yes. but this is too much cope

[dawn yacht]

Who is this sprout?

[umbral scaffold]

Make more that's what I do

[quasi dust]

it pains me to watch the horrible movement and crosshair placement of console players. its not their fault entirely... but like... they are gimped hard and way worse than any pc player

[grave cargo]

The vet tax is real

[dapper vessel]

Confirmed kill and Iron will exist

[loud abyss]

Man, I love how well the game runs since the Carnival patch. Good thing that they hotfix shit like that immediately, right?

[dapper vessel]

and its not at the right tree

[umbral scaffold]

I have like 3 Fireteams now lmao

[grave cargo]

https://tenor.com/view/one-pice-gif-26834018

[forest maple]

Is it bad that i feel actively harming my team if i bring a left tree build to auric t5? Like damn i feel bad taking it

[dapper vessel]

Exhil takedown if its fixed is another option

[loud abyss]

Can't even start that bloody shit show to begin with.

[quasi dust]

im trying, but im struggling to find a build that works for me.

[oak lion]

saying Shout vet is not doing much damage is just objectively wrong

[grave cargo]

Don’t go sharpshooter unless you’re with a team or good at not getting hit yeah

[dawn yacht]

Send a bug report and deal. Crashes aren't all magically simple to fix

[fast scaffold]

I hope it never makes its way to PlayStation with cross play we'll get like 4 patches a year if that happens

[serene sage]

I think you're underestimating how much damage middle tree has.

[umbral scaffold]

I took like 90% left than just enough to get weapon specialist.

[oak lion]

just the +20% to bosses alone is lovely in the middle tree

[grave cargo]

I’m not I usually see about vets doing like 200-300k

[cosmic aurora]

#1158835044006232215 message revolvers been fun if you’re into that kinda thing

[loud abyss]

Oh you mean like it was in the first year?

[grave cargo]

They’re basically always bottom scoreboard for damage

[forest maple]

The difference in pubs between excecutioners stance performance and shout for me is night and day

[calm vine]

with the new director, without a team of friends or good players it is harming the team sadly

[tiny summit]

Was trying out the keystone more. Get into lobby 2 others are exestance.

sigh

Well time for ol reliable plasma shout

[quasi dust]

whoa, i didnt know that channel existed, thanks!

[dawn yacht]

It's a thread to this channel

[umbral scaffold]

I've got the shout with laspistol/chainsword

[dawn yacht]

It's kind of oddly nested

[harsh geyser]

Okay but like, is helbore worth using?

[oak lion]

that's almost like damage is even swinging into a horde and the build that specializes in taking down bosses and crushers and stuff does not do that unnecessarily

[dapper vessel]

yes

[harsh geyser]

It seems counter productive in a horder shooter

[cosmic aurora]

If you like auto guns or lasguns the left or middle tree are pretty good.

[umbral scaffold]

Some say yes, I say laspistol hits harder most of the time

[dapper vessel]

helbores good

[fast scaffold]

We've gotten 16 patches this year, each patch would have had to been authenticated by both parties and agreed on, it would be far worse

[oak lion]

Helbore is hella fun but whenever i use it the thing i aim at is dead before i even charge the shot lol

[cosmic aurora]

I just hate the helbore pullout time

[umbral scaffold]

I enjoy helbore more as a melee weapon

[serene sage]

Full middle tree

[harsh geyser]

Shit guess I’ll have to check it out when I get home then

[tiny summit]

Yes. You can 1-2 tap most of the enemy roster. With a mk 1 or 2, the bayonet stab can stagger and push away ragers if they surprise you.

[fleet garden]

helbore3 is good because bayonet

[wispy oyster]

They released hotfix notes including all the changes they tried to sneak by in the last one.

[harsh geyser]

M..melee??

[oak lion]

after using the revolver i can't go back to any other weapon

[fleet garden]

so you can one tap normal shooters and then one tap with bayonet

[umbral scaffold]

Helbore good because spear best weapon

[oak lion]

it hasa bayonet

[tiny summit]

Fuck that bayonet.

[harsh geyser]

OH

right

[umbral scaffold]

40,000 years and the spear is still dominant.

[cosmic aurora]

The auto guns and lasguns aren’t too bad. But yeah helbore and plasma are hard to use now post revolver pullout

[harsh geyser]

What’s the difference between helbore 3 and 2?

[grave cargo]

How bad were your teammates

[umbral scaffold]

3 is trash

[oak lion]

my pullout game is immaculate

[waxen veldt]

What melee are people running with plasma?

[harsh geyser]

Why

[umbral scaffold]

Is turns your stabby bayonet into a stupid axe

[umbral scaffold]

I mean the melee isn’t great true

[kind scarab]

Quickswitch champ

[quasi dust]

knife to relocate to better plasma shooting position! lol

[umbral scaffold]

I don't want chop, I want poke

[spare geyser]

3 does more charged damage, but takes longer to charge. Also 3 has a different bayonett animation which I find to be slow and bad.

[kind scarab]

Remember it's faster to pull out your sidearm than it is to reload

[umbral scaffold]

But the 3 is the highest damage one

I still prefer mk1

Balanced

Stable

Reliable

Chop animation bad

[oak lion]

"Do you have protection?"
"Dw i main the revolver in Darktide"

[forest maple]

I've only been using laspistol, plasma, infantry agri and columnus for ranged this patch

[umbral scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/improvise-adapt-overcome-bear-grylls-gif-10468556

B..b..boltgun 🥺

[serene sage]

The other vet (pug, not friend) took shout as well and I can see for the emperor buff on me so he probably running some kind of commissar build with las pistol. He also pulled 500k+ damage on the same screenshot

[tiny summit]

3 slowest charge but highest dmg and bayonet slash. 2 fastest charge/lowest dmg and bayonet stab. 1 in between charge/dmg and bayonet stab

[quasi dust]

respectable vets run field improvisation

[umbral scaffold]

Mk1 is the superior Helbore out of all 3 imo due to those factors it has the mag size, it has the damage, it has the charge speed and it has the bayonet

[delicate moat]

oh btw, does tagging stack if u have multiple taggy vets?

[umbral scaffold]

I main thay shit

[umbral scaffold]

<.<

And I out damage in nearly my 8/10 games I gotten in with randoms on the new map too

[grave cargo]

Sounds like that mission took you forever

[tiny summit]

I believe only the tag with highest stacks will apply

[delicate moat]

what is this assumption

[umbral scaffold]

I don't even know where to check damage at the end of games on console lmao

[oak lion]

mf will say anything just to avoid saying Middle tree isn't as dogshit as he claims

[grave cargo]

2 people with lower DPS = slower clear times

[delicate moat]

[cosmic aurora]

That’s the neat thing, you don’t

[grave cargo]

Why are you making things up about things I’ve never said

[umbral scaffold]

Ahh so I'm not an idiot

That's nice to know

[delicate moat]

damage is just a number, plasteel is the real shit

[umbral scaffold]

.middle tree better than crouching everywhere

I don't want to return to crab

[serene sage]

Well if you keep moving the goalpost it's not worth discussing anything. For the record it didn't take me longer than usual

[grave cargo]

That keystone sucks anyways

[cosmic aurora]

It’s a mod for pc called scoreboard

[grave cargo]

You don’t need it

[quasi dust]

DMB eats burritos sideways, dont listen to em lol nothing they have said has made much logical sense today.

[umbral scaffold]

Ahhh

Neat

Lucky karkers.

[grave cargo]

I’m maintaining the same argument

[oak lion]

You are moving the goalposts

[grave cargo]

Middle tree lacks damage versus other options

[kind scarab]

I need plasteel

[umbral scaffold]

Not if everyone shoots

[grave cargo]

Having two people running middle tree is going to cause you to clear slower

[delicate moat]

i love checking who interacted with machines the most

[kind scarab]

But all the people i queue up with in soloq eat crayons

[oak lion]

sure but it more than makes up for it by increasing the damage output of your entire team

[grave cargo]

Means mission will take longer

[oak lion]

i blame crossplay

[umbral scaffold]

Crayon good

Lunch

[kind scarab]

Oggy spotted

Whatchu doing here big guy

[quasi dust]

your argument seems to be coming from a place of "i need to carry my team (because all randos are bad) and not contribute further than doing damage" correct me if i am wrong

[cosmic aurora]

I like the way the yellow ones taste

[serene sage]

how many screenshots of me topping the damage chart running full middle do you need? cause I have a few, just not at home right now.
i will show the full history, too, so you don't call me cherry picking

[umbral scaffold]

I have 2 oggy ^.^

[kind scarab]

You can have the mushrooms I grow instead

[cosmic aurora]

That’s funny because I have 2 vets

[kind scarab]

at least they wont' give you brain damage

[grave cargo]

Imma be real wit chu chief

[umbral scaffold]

Green crayon strawberry

[proper delta]

worth stripping any of these perks?

[kind scarab]

Tf is a strawberry

[tall torrent]

I’d skip all

[kind scarab]

How can you pronouce a word that long?!

[grave cargo]

All that proves is you’re either better than average or you didn’t have someone running a much better zealot ogryn or psyker

[tiny summit]

I'm a gunpsyker enjoyer. The purple warp ones are the best

[serene sage]

it is, in fact, not a berry

[umbral scaffold]

Strawberrs

[kind scarab]

hmmmmm

[grave cargo]

Zealots can build full tank and still do 700k+ damage this patch

[cosmic aurora]

Revolver psyker with assail was kinda funny

[kind scarab]

I got my eyes on you

[harsh geyser]

I wish the heavy flamer was good

[kind scarab]

right after this mission to get more plasteel wish me luck

[grave cargo]

Zealot is a little overtuned

[kind scarab]

THE PSYKER BLEW HIMSELF UP

[umbral scaffold]

Pretty sure strawberries exist in 40k there a borderline invasive species even now

[kind scarab]

WE HAVEN'T EVEN STARTED THE MISSION YET

[harsh geyser]

Good sign

[grave cargo]

And Ogryns

[harsh geyser]

He’s doing hardcore challenge

[grave cargo]

Ogryns lmao

[oak lion]

damn that's almost like damage in the scoreboard can be overblown by horde clear

[slow spade]

Genuinely impressive

[grave cargo]

How do you die as ogryn

[cosmic aurora]

He’s doing a penance don’t worry about it

[tiny summit]

It's still nice but right now using the laspistol. Just circling a horde lighting them all on fire with the burn stacks

[gaunt hinge]

i could see picking up the chainsword, pop on bleed to replace the crit blessing and slot on something else on the perk, maniac damage to replace specialist damage maybe

[slow spade]

Barrels UwU

[harsh geyser]

Which one?

[fast scaffold]

Classic Haveloch move

[grave cargo]

How do you die with passive 32% DR as ogryn

[slow spade]

Barrels UwU

[cosmic aurora]

The “get carried by team” penance

[harsh geyser]

Aaah

Fair

[tiny summit]

I feel so much satisfaction when I time a revved heavy chainsword attack on a boss right as their shield break and the chain attack is still going to town on them

[delicate moat]

i love when ppl start leaving on first encounter and then multiple waves of teammates leave

[peak token]

do deadshot work if you run out of stamina

i can see deadshot in my aurabar at %0 stamina

[gaunt hinge]

no

[grave cargo]

No

[gaunt hinge]

it greys out when you do

[cosmic aurora]

My favorite is when someone goes down and immediately leaves before we can even attempt to revive

[proper delta]

keep rev it up and replace devestating strike w/ ?

[shell ginkgo]

There isn't.

[gaunt hinge]

with bleed

[willow badger]

ayo the columnus iag is so cracked

[peak token]

thx

[kind scarab]

Lord have mercy on my soul

[willow badger]

it's like shooting a fkn uzi

[zealous wyvern]

on the contrary. it is far too important to not bring. most weapons, especially the non-meta ones, depend on you bringing that. the other two auras are trolling to bring along kind of. that is the problem. especially with point restrictions causing you to have to bring the ammo aura costing you another what... 3 points?

[formal relic]

can someone explain what ranged finesse power is?

[slow spade]

Wait wtf that's a Veteran that died

[serene sage]

middle tree is so bad
middle tree does less damage than average
middle tree can only do damage if you have bad teammates because they aren't shooting (at the same time, the philosophy is that you need to do damage so you can carry pugs, but out damaging bad teammates somehow shows middle is bad)
oh two people running middle tree topping damage? middle is bad because it prolongs the mission
well other classes are better anyway

[slow spade]

That wasn't even a psyker

[fast scaffold]

That's Xbox territory

[shell ginkgo]

Crit damage and headshot damage.

[gaunt hinge]

having basically an infinity sign next to your ammo pool by taking ammo aura, turns out, very useful

[slow spade]

DMB just can't admit they are wrong. Just ignore them

Its pretty sad and funny though

[grave cargo]

Never said that
Never said that
Never said that
Never said that
Never said that
Never said that
Yes veteran is the weakest class right now

[tiny summit]

I sometimes leave in a dire situation when downed/dead because the bot may actually give them an opportunity to salvage the run. I've had it happen a few times where someone left and the bot in its short time before replaced by someone else saved the run

[worthy pelican]

iunno, feels like you need survivalist for autoguns, you can work around las guns with crits or they dont need constant ammo

[serene sage]

im typing that for my own amusement tbh 😄

[oak lion]

yes you did lmfao

[grave cargo]

Hyperbole won’t help you win your argument

[umbral scaffold]

Skill issie

[grave cargo]

Then it would be really easy to link my post right

[slow spade]

Ah same, I argued with him for funsies too lol

[kind scarab]

We lost the mission right after the first area :T

[plucky agate]

"vet is weakest class right now"

say what

[grave cargo]

Bro come on

[slow spade]

DMB is just stupid ignore them

[quasi dust]

i dont think any other vet player here has agreed with anything DMB has said, stop worrying about it lol they are just missing a U from their name

[kind scarab]

They all fucking died immediately

What the shit

[umbral scaffold]

DMB big skill issie

[delicate moat]

i would join if i wasn't in a different region

[grave cargo]

Just play any other career

Ogryns are actually unkillable

[kind scarab]

What region you in?

[serene sage]

I would say "Vet is the most restrictive talent wise right now."

[grave cargo]

Psyker is lmao I am soloing the map

Zealot has no weaknesses

[delicate moat]

SEA, 200 ping darktide is a whole different experience

[grave cargo]

They all need buffs

[worthy pelican]

yeah we need some trimming then the tree would be really fucking good

[kind scarab]

Ohhhh SEA

Aussie I take it?

[shell ginkgo]

Damn son what's going on in here

[slow spade]

You are literally the personification of what a bad Vet player is lol

[grave cargo]

Not an argument

[delicate moat]

Chinese, does aussies not have a different region?

[slow spade]

Its a statement

Can't even see that

[kind scarab]

I think they share a region with you

[delicate moat]

their ping must suck ass

[worthy pelican]

I also think the left keystone should have camo baked in, maybe have it as 1 stack a sec and then camo brings it down to 0.5?

[grave cargo]

I would argue vet is the best designed class right now specifically because he actually has shortcomings they’re just kinda too short

[quasi dust]

every villiage needs an idiot, DMB is ours. leave em alone lol

[grave cargo]

Zealot has too much of everything

[slow spade]

Lol while I hate Camo Expert Vets Pre-patch 13

I think it would be funny

[grave cargo]

You can build a dogwater ogryn but you have to try

[umbral scaffold]

Your to short.

[serene sage]

lmao kinda accurate

[bright coyote]

damn yall still goin

[grave cargo]

Psyker requires not being braindead but is himself braindead to play rn

[slow spade]

Ikr, I got it from Psyker chat too

[slow spade]

I have nothing else to do

[delicate moat]

lore accurate

[umbral scaffold]

Every brain burst psyker is braindead so

[slow spade]

God I wish I could play more Darktide

[kind scarab]

My geography is bad, cause I never cared for it

Would that be central asia?

[bright coyote]

i just mean the argument, im in this chat too xd

[grave cargo]

I only complain cause I like plasma and want vet to be better

[delicate moat]

south east asia, im surprised it's only 150 ping listed

[kind scarab]

Do it

[serene sage]

I posted this not too long ago

want my hot takes?
Vet chat are try hards
Zealot chat hates vet chat
Ogryns chat is quiet and pray they fly under the radar with their broken shit
Psyler chat is skill issue people trying to get Surge staff buffed

[plucky agate]

Meanwhile Vet plasma is dominating auric runs right now

what even

[tall torrent]

At least we can all agree that this keystone update really immerses you into the true imperial guard experience where you constantly get overwhelmed by enemies

[grave cargo]

Also give us a plasma pistol

[umbral scaffold]

Plasma vets fuck but I don't like the slow reload to cool off

[gaunt hinge]

bolt pissol

[umbral scaffold]

I am speed

[bright coyote]

plasma is so incredible right now

[quasi dust]

plasma is in a great place right now, especially mid tree.

[kind scarab]

Use right capstone then

[gaunt hinge]

then dont reload 🙂

[delicate moat]

they should buff bombers to counter the vet plasma and keystone power increase

[grave cargo]

Plasma is basically optimal if you don’t take sharpshooter tree

[plucky agate]

theres the trade off gotta pick your times to reload which is very forgivable

[serene sage]

just in case, did you know you can vent?

[grave cargo]

Instant swap versatility wallbangs

[quasi dust]

focus fire your own targets with plasma is the cats pajamas rn

[scenic basin]

I've seen a lot of crying on reddit about new vet tree, how bad is the actual situation? I haven't been able to check it out myelf

[cosmic aurora]

Just go right keystone and never reload

[grave cargo]

And is also optimal if you do run sharpshooter tree

[delicate estuary]

wait we had a hotfix and they didnt fix exhilarating takedown ?

[umbral scaffold]

How do you vent on console?

[kind scarab]

Yes

[plucky agate]

boils down to vets not knowing how to utilize the new tree, its not that bad

[kind scarab]

2 oggies and a console player

[delicate estuary]

you cannot make this shit up

[kind scarab]

I pray for you

[umbral scaffold]

Only way I'd found was reloading.

[grave cargo]

As someone who was forcing plasma to work on patch 6 at great expense to my sanity watching reload times

[static lily]

it's genuine dog

[delicate moat]

keystones provide a different style of gameplay; no-keystone builds are slightly weaker imo

[umbral scaffold]

I play PC to

[grave cargo]

I’m not unhappy with current plasma.

[quaint valve]

Nope

[umbral scaffold]

On a controller

[kind scarab]

Same difference

[cosmic aurora]

On paper keystones looks bad. But it’s pretty good right now if you know what you’re doing

[umbral scaffold]

😈

[terse geyser]

Bolter or nothing

[plucky agate]

this

[shell ginkgo]

Can't do that, it'd be buffing vet.

[grave cargo]

It’s very frustrating. You’re by far the most point starved of any career

[quasi dust]

theres only a few options, im sure you can figure it out by pressing buttons

[celest vine]

They keystones and nerfs are and would be fine if they didnt cost 4 more points to get to compared to other classes

[grave cargo]

You have to commit to a role, or commit to lacking any specialization

[bright coyote]

i do my best to represent xbox

[wooden oar]

Nearly 1 million overkill damage

[tall torrent]

Take middle if u like to see shiny gold target die fast
Take right if u like to swap between weapons and melee a lot

[grave cargo]

Worse on the psyche than in practice tbh

[serene sage]

It's polarizing. You can do a lot of damage, there are good builds.
But testing builds are not fun bc of how restrictive the tree is.
You can do well, how much fun you have or how satisfying with your own build is debatable.
I always feel like I'm so close to greatness, just 1 or 2 talent more and I'm happy with everything.
Oh and we are a lot squishier now.

[quaint valve]

Vet keystones are ok, vet tree taxes and bad nodes are a problem

[umbral scaffold]

I do well enough to clear and clutch damnation level though so 🤷

[delicate moat]

my smoke build is eating good this patch though

[kind scarab]

It's good (if you're willing to sacrifice versatility and extra things you'd usually pick up on the tree for variety, and also are already a good veteran player that doesn't need to rely on crutches in the tree)

[umbral scaffold]

I didn't even think about that lmao

[celest vine]

This is the univeral sentenent ive seen

[plucky agate]

weakest class yall

[obtuse dawn]

I started using smokes and I think they are under rated

[umbral scaffold]

Look I'm ngl It took me 3 days to figure out I can charge power weapons.

[proper delta]

hmm im crashing at mission screen with my mods now

[plucky agate]

BRO BOUGHT RECIPTS

[tall torrent]

If vet got 3 extra points I think it would be a lot better

[cosmic aurora]

I saw people complaining about iron will being harder to get and was like lol I didn’t really need it in the first place

[north light]

Hey guys what mods are a Must have?

[grave cargo]

Focus fire is ok not great

Middle tree is so bad

[quaint valve]

And general survivability took a hit

[shell ginkgo]

Man went show me the car fax

[grave cargo]

You literally proved me right with the first one

[balmy flume]

So we have a hotfix but is that one Node working properly yet?

[grave cargo]

Wtf are you doing

[kind scarab]

Yeah, same. I never used it, but you gotta think from the mindset of the average soloq player.

[shell ginkgo]

Ha no.

[static lily]

no

[serene sage]

lmao i love you

[worthy pelican]

dmb on some prime copium rn

[celest vine]

Ive changed my mind on keystones, they’re actually pretty good

[grave cargo]

You’re so mad you’re ignoring reality this hard

[balmy flume]

Bleh shame

[slow spade]

Not wrong either lol

[cosmic aurora]

Depending on guns, probably FullAuto so you don’t get carpal tunnel

[oak lion]

[static lily]

they hate John Darktide, they would rather you play the other funny classes

[celest vine]

The three more points they cost tho is a hard pill to swallow

[kind scarab]

Like. Imagine how much we have to change to do better. Now imagine how bad players who rely on all those crutches are.

[quasi dust]

Kheryn, i love you so much hahaha i thought my pettiness was close to peak, but you put in the real work! lol

[celest vine]

(4 to make middle one really good)

[gaunt hinge]

creature spawner is very good, unless you mean weapon mods

[umbral scaffold]

I just started swapping weapons more

[willow badger]

ayo the new drip kinda good

[delicate estuary]

I will stop bitching about left side vet being weak when they fix ET

[kind scarab]

If you run into a vet who doesn't know what they're doing in soloq now. You can't assume they're going to be at least passable.

[quaint valve]

They just need to cut some of the skill tree down

[kind scarab]

Now they just trash

[tiny summit]

With us occasional gunpsykers trying to speak the good word

[grave cargo]

Thank you for validating me as having a nuanced approach while you guys all read it as ABSOLUTE SHIT WORTHLESS FARBAGE because you can’t handle nuance

[slow spade]

I really want to see just what would happen if Shout got heavily nerfed

[umbral scaffold]

Psykers without staffs 🤢

[static lily]

pretty sure the weapon swap keystone is still bugged or is that old news?

[plucky agate]

EVEN MORE WAYS TO LOSE OUR PLASTEEL

[celest vine]

Executioners stance needs a rework pretty hard

[slow spade]

Like if Duty and Honor was removed lol

[north light]

Weapon mods, outfit mods, etc

[kind scarab]

Still bugged

[bright coyote]

bro is shaking

[umbral scaffold]

? Bugged how

[gaunt hinge]

[grave cargo]

God forbid someone complain that vet’s opportunity cost is unfair when everyone else doesn’t have to make that choice

[static lily]

yeah I thought so

[north light]

I saw there was a mod somewhere which let you see hidden cosmetics

[tiny summit]

We cast lead and las

[quaint valve]

It use to suck when it first came out, no one really used it much

[grave cargo]

Pretty sure it’s fixed

[static lily]

ranged only applies for first shot

[kind scarab]

WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T THEY MAKE IT USE DIAMANTINE THOSE FUCKING

[static lily]

lol

[kind scarab]

[shell ginkgo]

NumericUI and FullAuto very good.

[umbral scaffold]

Lame

[slow spade]

Crit only applies to 1st shot instead of the 5 sec duration iirc

[delicate estuary]

I am enjoying exe stance but having an entire tree made around headshots and the toughness regen node on headshots is bugged makes it kinda game breaking

[devout atlas]

fuck it dawg idgaf anymore

[celest vine]

Diamantine is literally diamonds

[umbral scaffold]

I didn't notice everything dies so quick to laspistol as is

[scenic basin]

And how dogshit is sharpshooter atm? Lucius is by far my favorite gun in the game. How do i make it work with the new tree?

[plucky agate]

Cook brother keep it up

[grave cargo]

I thought that was intentional

[cosmic aurora]

Ngl id roll all the time

[floral sun]

goated middle vet skills

[kind scarab]

EXACTLY, let me gamble with that shit

[celest vine]

Why do we gamble with fucking plastic instead of actual diamonds

[grave cargo]

You’re a glass cannon

[celest vine]

[shell ginkgo]

Damn they really went fuck it we ball with the grenades

[grave cargo]

Just don’t get hit

[celest vine]

Who the fuck thought of that

[quasi dust]

grenadier vet is so much fun!

[oak lion]

what opportunity cost the middle tree gives everyone on your team and their grandma free buffs for days

[kind scarab]

An ASSHOLE

[tiny summit]

I'm not gonna sugarcoat it

[slow spade]

Now its a Vet staple lol

Which is why I want to see the fallout if Duty and Honor was removed

[static lily]

if so that makes it even more dogshit to run any autogun

[delicate moat]

not smoke, not based

[topaz lance]

they missed an opportunity by not adding a grenade-focussed keystone

[umbral scaffold]

Same though

[devout atlas]

they buffed twinned to 20% today LETS FUCKING GO

[static lily]

which already feel like ass with such a low duration

[kind scarab]

Twinned was always 20% after vet rework

[topaz lance]

grenades are a vet thing anyways

[gaunt hinge]

what would it do

[celest vine]

Can we PLEASE get the scab shooter outfit?

[plucky agate]

just finished the malestrom damnation assasination with it. its still REALLY strong when utilized properly

[grave cargo]

Because you’re not taking the melee damage attack speed revive speed headshot damage stuff what do you mean

[devout atlas]

todays hotfix

[celest vine]

Please its so good

[bronze trout]

The talents always said it was a 20% chance for twinned, did they just not actually update some actual numbers from the patch?

[grave cargo]

I really didn’t think basic cost benefit analysis was hard

[gaunt hinge]

hey guys why isnt this scab shooter dying

[serene sage]

tbf middle tree has to take that stupid suppression node, and the born leader node, and the 10% team toughness replen node

[static lily]

they are just putting that down it was already in the game before this

[cosmic aurora]

Those were already in they just forgot to put the notes in

[shell ginkgo]

That's been in effect since the patch. They just finally listed the changes instead of stealthing it

[celest vine]

Most zealots just ignore them lmao