veteran-class

[sturdy schooner]

maybe the moebians have a point...

[viscid marlin]

yeah at least rip the good stuff 😂

[heavy bridge]

True, that wouldve been nice

[untold mulch]

Mhmm

[winter dock]

but they removed a bunch near the bottom so you can still dip ~4 points into any two trees and retain keystone if you're willing to give up durability nodes at the top

[kind scarab]

Also cause recon has little recoil making it even easier for me.

[quaint valve]

Evidently single shot weapons better for right side and fast firing weapons better for left side is the gist so far

[untold mulch]

This game/company makes me understand Chaos points

[swift ingot]

Oh, I didn’t notice that, guess it makes sense, would be absolutely bonkers when combined with focus target

[viscid marlin]

i guess its time to say goodbye to my grenade generation.. sorry team, the tax is too high

[junior needle]

I still need to deduct for needing talent taxes to do what other guns can do (better) without volley fire or that talent.

[kind scarab]

Middle tree for people who want to help the team do a lot more damage.

[frank ether]

hang on

did they remove explosion damage from frags

[serene sage]

by the team you mean me, right?

[frank ether]

my frags are only doing bleed damage

[kind scarab]

No matter what gun I'm using. I always have Ex stance up, so it makes no difference for me.

[swift ingot]

Aka committing to a full Commissar build

[serene bough]

im the opposite, i never use exe stance

[heavy bridge]

I won't lie, a functionally permanent +17% team damage seems very nice

[serene sage]

how do you get 17%

[viscid marlin]

thats not 17% lol

[serene sage]

fire team and?

[viscid marlin]

what is it, 12.5%?

[kind scarab]

17% is only if you go for the 5% damage aura and leave the survivalist aura

[viscid marlin]

oh i see he is talking about-yeah

like hell am i ever not taking survivalist

[cinder wadi]

Does "Always prepared" work right or am I being dumb?

[fathom grotto]

@kind scarab got any plas gun builds?

[kind scarab]

It works right

[stuck crystal]

I just use middle tree to tag the stuff I'm shooting for the up to 20% damage boost, and then when it dies we all get toughness

[south garnet]

which one

[winter dock]

The real issue is that guns are balanced with survivalist in mind, meaning its too important to give up

[swift ingot]

The setup I’ve been running lately pairs very well with my Laspistol

[junior needle]

What I mean is that columnus IAG can pull off similar (or better) numbers without needing massive damage boosts. Leaving you free to take shout or whatever else you want.

[fathom grotto]

or anyone got any plas builds

[kind scarab]

Plasma gun? You'd be best off using right side tree

[winter dock]

They need to remove it, honestly, and just give all guns some extra reserves to compensate

[cinder wadi]

The 3.3% ammo per stack when activating ranged specialist

[frank ether]

cool frags are either stealth nerfed or bugged

[mellow bridge]

Hmmm. Apparently vet got nerfed. Maybe I can finally able play him. Every lobby I join has 4 vets in it

[frank ether]

no initial damage

[heavy bridge]

depends on the weapon I take tbh
but yeah Survivalist is hard to give up

[frank ether]

just puts bleeds

[kind scarab]

That's cause Colum is one of our best high firerate guns. I know it's great. I just don't feel like using it while trying to snipe stuff halfway across the map

[idle dirge]

I haven't really played much since the update, but it sounds like it'll be easier to get ammo around

Since there's more ammo bags and more chests or smth

[south garnet]

Gotcha. there are 2 nodes called 'always prepared' now. lel

[sleek junco]

Because people are desperately trying to find a build that works lmao

[serene sage]

that sucks, i actually crutch frag

[cloud leaf]

still cant reach the keystone omg we need like 5 more skill points to make this tree work

[finite imp]

anyone got any good Dakka builds

[serene sage]

is it still the same with tinkered frag?

[mellow bridge]

People could literally replace him a rock and you would still have 4 people in each lobby playing vet

[viscid marlin]

They already slammed the ammo node way down, im not losing my ammo generation for myself and the team too.

[kind scarab]

For plasma, I'd recommend taking the same build I gave the other guy for the revolver

They'll both function the same damn way

[south garnet]

Leave tree as-is and add 5 points as class benefit and vet is perfect now

[kind scarab]

[finite imp]

wait was exhilerating takedown bugged?

[junior needle]

Understandable. You'll likely be able to get better dps/ammo value out of a autofired infantry las (1a/4) with the same or nearly the same setup.

[serene sage]

last patch it was pretty balanced popularity wise tbh
this patch it's just people testing new stuff most likely

[viscid marlin]

yup

[fathom grotto]

repost? if possible

[crisp bronze]

My 2 main weapons for my "Commando" Vet. Love these things.

[finite imp]

wow its such a good ability and they fucked it

how about a fuckin hotfix ffs

[kind scarab]

Like I said before, I really didn't even need to pickup my ammo and killed everything that got in front of me (including magdumping a whole magazine on two seperate bosses)

[sturdy schooner]

hm...

[heavy bridge]

ah but if everyone does more damage they'll use less ammo in the first place

[south garnet]

it still is. it's "being worked on" despite it being a single line of code with a + / - typo that was pointed out on the forums

[finite imp]

fucking awesome

[serene sage]

somehow this will open a portal to another dimension

[mellow bridge]

This is why modding should be banned

[spring trellis]

It never worked before as far as I am aware. It always increased the damaged you took instead of reducing it

[crisp bronze]

The warp?

[mellow bridge]

Look at this abomination

[kind scarab]

I'll try the infantry lasguns a bit later however, since I do have plans for them

[south garnet]

pretty incredible tbh

[steel spoke]

anyone have any lasgun builds?

[finite imp]

anyone got CIAG build

[quick burrow]

@crisp bronze change that reload speed to flak and u got urself a sick revolver

[junior needle]

Does that include pre patch?

[kind scarab]

Not for bottom left tree however, but middle tree

[finite imp]

like that's a pretty HUGE blunder with a zero second fix

[serene sage]

Vet bugs are load bearing. They are what holding the game together.

[viscid marlin]

5% more damage or 1% ammo regen isn't super comparable though. If we're just talking auras.

[kind scarab]

Pre-patch I needed to pick up ~4-6 small packs, or one large one and up to two small ones

[mystic belfry]

Ngl, after fully reading through the new tree. I’m just switching off of my vet

[heavy bridge]

oh are the Infantry Lasguns good? I'll admit I've been distracted by fancier stuff, haven't properly tried then out since patch 13

[mystic belfry]

Back to zealot

[south garnet]

look, they were very busy adding new bugs, so

[kind scarab]

If memory serves that is

[winter dock]

Oh god Vets are the dreaded Coconut.jpg

[viscid marlin]

I like the Ia

[quick burrow]

the mg1a inf lasgun is fire

[viscid marlin]

^

[swift ingot]

I prefer to take the damage aura over the ammo so I can have an extra point to spend in my Laspistol builds

[junior needle]

Since patch 14 the ones that aren't k12 have been brought up to being good.

[quick burrow]

its stronger than the mk12 at this point which is wild IMO

[sturdy schooner]

btw vets, which is the better helmet drip

[idle dirge]

2

[quick burrow]

goggles

always goggles

[mystic belfry]

2

[radiant chasm]

Right right right

[finite imp]

is anything worth it over VoC ?

[junior needle]

So there's a large difference between this patch and the last one even with a similar setup and play. Maybe they changed shock trooper to work on all the crits.

[sturdy schooner]

i have the purple version but i gotta flex the penance version yknow yknow

[kind scarab]

Maaaaaybe? I think they removed the internal cooldown at least.

Or made it shorter.

[serene sage]

yeah, they are also similar to Mordekaiser bugs in LoL

[south garnet]

FS-patch-deployment-v-bugs.gif

[swift ingot]

They finally fixed the Commissar hat removing your hair

[junior needle]

It seemed to not have any problem working on every crit on anything that wasn't a recon, so that leads me to believe it was crit string specific. That change alone would double the ammo value of shock trooper for them, and make nonstop crits have appropriately extended ammo.

[swift ingot]

Also fit check, what do y’all think?

[frank ether]

the saddest thing is even with this bug I prefer frags to smokes as melee vet

[kind scarab]

Lemme switch out shocktrooper on my build and see how the ammo economy changes

[frank ether]

if that isnt a sign to how disappointing this entire thing was I don't know what else is

[crisp bronze]

All of my builds use Leave No One Behind and Demo Stockpile. So it's really easy for me to swap between VoC and Infiltrate depending on my mood.

[south garnet]

smoke nades on your team is the next best form of friendly fire after blowing up barrels near them tho

[heavy bridge]

I really need to learn Infiltrate
I crutched way too hard on VoC

[south garnet]

that gives them value

[kind scarab]

Yes, you do.

Don't fall for the VoC crutch

[tardy turtle]

infiltrate with the threat reduction is all i need

[south garnet]

make sure they're blind, confused and disoriented for when the pack of maulers rolls up

[kind scarab]

Get better at dodging and weaving in melee attacks between ranged ones

Become unstoppable

[frank ether]

just dont take the threat reduction then

[radiant chasm]

Hmm if tactical reload and shotgun special reload was fixed… i might bring out my agri

[half wigeon]

recon 6 good now with the new tree or still meh ?

[radiant chasm]

Still meh

[gusty sonnet]

columnus should be better at it

[heavy bridge]

It's more just switching off VoC so I can't just shout every time I get scared

[tardy turtle]

being able to gun down crushers from behind in 2-3 seconds with raking fire and infil is so good

[radiant chasm]

It was only good on patch 13 xd and that is cause rending was giga busted

[dreamy scaffold]

does it look like that if your character has long hair?

[frank ether]

they do if you stick around

[swift ingot]

Dunno

[frank ether]

I had gunners that immediately reaggro on me after exiting stealth

[tardy turtle]

too far from team

[viscid marlin]

Real gigachads see someone dying to a dog and still don't shout anyways 😉

[quick burrow]

im to tired to play new builds so im just gonna use my laspistol crit build until people smarter than me figure out the new optimal talent paths

[frank ether]

thats because ragers dont break aggro on proximity

other stuff tend to do

[quick burrow]

deadshot shock trooper no keystone away!

[frank ether]

ragers just lock on something and keep aggro till their attack is done

[cinder wadi]

@kind scarab sorry for the ping, do you have a build with voice of command?

[kind scarab]

@junior needle 30-31 rounds without Sharpshooter. 24 average with sharpshooter.

[kind scarab]

Just do same build, but switch to VoC

Nodes should be easy for you to switch

[cinder wadi]

oh

[swift slate]

Man I’m having a hard time with the sharpshooter build I liked it before

[cinder wadi]

No changes?

[kind scarab]

Not really nah

You have the important stuff

[cinder wadi]

alr

[kind scarab]

You can use extra points on whatever you want

[fast heart]

Bruh

[south garnet]

pulling infiltrate and trying to reposition, only to find yourself stuck and uncloaking sandwiched between 3 crushers, a pack of ragers, face to face with a mauler with his game face on

[heavy bridge]

what gun are you using

[elder vessel]

I wish they had a Rambo style shoot everything in the room keystone

[mild grotto]

anyone got any good builds that involve the recon lasgun and executioner's stance?

[frank ether]

Do I even bother reporting the grenade bug

who was the clown talking about unpaid work this evening

[swift slate]

The same gun I had before, shouldn’t have really changed anything

[elder vessel]

Rather than 2 sniper keystones, and a melee keystone

[frank ether]

eh whatever

[heavy bridge]

okay but what gun is that lmao

[sleek junco]

There's a cool trick with the recons where you hold X in your inventory and it turns it into something useful

[frank ether]

I'll just clown on with some more gunpsyker

[swift slate]

The “stand still” perk is the problem not the gun

[serene sage]

you should! you would be surprise at what they do and don't know

[gusty sonnet]

recon are dog right now

[kind scarab]

What grenade bug?

[frank ether]

#veteran-class message

[junior needle]

Doesn't look like there was a change to shocktrooper. 5 shots here, 3 regulars and 2 crits, and it took 4 shots of ammo. Same function as before.

[viscid marlin]

It doesn't say in the desc but if you kill something with full stacks, every subsequent maked kill will refresh the full amount of the stacks not just the ones on your target.

[serene sage]

allegedly frag doesn't do blast damage, only bleed?

[mystic belfry]

Can I report the bug where they implemented patch 15

[kind scarab]

Yeah, that's what it feels like after having looked at ammo usage

[swift ingot]

Focus target is a very fun keystone, I really like running it with the focused fire and redirect fire addons

[heavy bridge]

if you're using a fast firing weapon then the standing still isn't really an issue
If you're using a slower firing weapon then you should consider switching to weapon specialist for auto-crits

[viscid marlin]

It is, it's pretty good. I just dont know what the hell i can give up to get that far down and not tank my own damage or survivability.

[junior needle]

2 and 7a are irredeemable garbage, 6d might be salvageable with the right build and the stipulation (requirement) that you have constant headshot uptime and take multiple talent taxes.

The definite is that it’d require more effort and a particular talent tree to give results other guns get without that.

[celest vine]

Can they revert the veteran tree and redo it properly?

Fuck bro I see why they hid the tree

They knew it wouldnt go over well

[mystic belfry]

At this point I’d take reverting it and leaving it alone tbh

[viscid marlin]

honestly.. yeah

[kind scarab]

100%

[viscid marlin]

i mean that wasnt great but this isnt great either

[frank ether]

like how someone reported exhilarating and they didn't bother fixing it?

[serene sage]

we going back to patch 12

[west quartz]

what's wrong with this wep?

[viscid marlin]

just remove a bunch of travel nodes and we would be fine

thats all it needs

[mystic belfry]

Neither is great but now it’s worse

[viscid marlin]

either raise to 35 point cap or remove some travel nodes

[elder vessel]

Sniper Pistol

[kind scarab]

Counterpoint. Keep the travel nodes but use a layout similar to psyker tree and we'll be fine

[viscid marlin]

Hell or that, that would work too.

[mystic belfry]

They also shuffled a lot of nodes in ways that suck

[devout atlas]

,mmghgnh my lawbringer build is better than ever

[mellow bridge]

Its a hellbore that was squeezed into a laspistol. That's just unholy

[serene sage]

the lower middle path is completely gutted

[crisp bronze]

Thoughts on my Melee-Revolver Vet? This is pretty much my favorite build.

[stone birch]

is the ordo docket buff from qurios broken?

[mystic belfry]

Try getting ogryn and elite damage nodes

[celest vine]

They nerfed half the fucking talent points

[kind scarab]

I should also point out, someone said we have 99 talents on our tree, while everyone else has like 80?

I haven't done the counting myself

[celest vine]

In exchange for really fucking gimicky keystones

[kind scarab]

But that sounds silly

[heavy bridge]

from what I've seen revolver LOVES Weapon Specialist keystone

[celest vine]

Thats awfuk

[sleek junco]

So you're saying we got 99 problems but a buff ain't one?

[stone birch]

the left keystone is not gimmicky.

[gusty sonnet]

try to go down for bottom right keystone. theres an auto-reload feature that synergizes well with revolver

[celest vine]

Gimick still

[mystic belfry]

Just don’t move

[swift ingot]

Focus Target is the most easy and least gimmicky of the keystones

[viscid marlin]

If only i liked revolver on vet

[celest vine]

One gun found a benfit from keystknes

[mystic belfry]

Def not a gimmick

[elfin fable]

is it true that the marksman keystone to stand still is mega trash

[viscid marlin]

i would be eaitng good

[devout atlas]

It's very good on shotguns because every pellet counts towards getting stacks. 1 lawbringer shot = max 15 stacks

[stone birch]

just land headshots and move anyway

[frank ether]

someone on the dev team has a newfound revolver fetish

[mystic belfry]

So you have to land headshots to move

How is that not a gimmick

[kind scarab]

You don't get stacks for just headshots though

[frank ether]

they keep making nichest shit that only makes sense for revolver

[unkempt lagoon]

Does Tunnel Vision perform as it reads?
i.e
If you earn 100 toughness from something, for example, do you receive an additional 2.5 (100*2.5%) per stack?

[viscid marlin]

If it works for you that's fine and all but honestly fuck that reload speed, ill take anything else over that.

[swift ingot]

I want to like revolver but I just can’t put down Laspistol, only thing that would make me drop Laspistol would be a bolt pistol

[frail anchor]

does anyone know how the extra crit on weapons specialist actually works? the way it reads you should get 100% crit but that seems to not be the case

[frank ether]

weapon specialist passive crit only procs for the first shot so again ideal for revolver weapon swap nonsense

[mystic belfry]

Also outside of getting your revolver crits, that build is probably weaker

[heavy bridge]

Fr just aim at heads, why would you use the "Better Headshots Damage" keystone if you weren't planning on shooting heads already

[sour elbow]

I am convinced the mutant is their favourite enemy, because dear god they never stop spawning and won't shut up.

[prime kestrel]

i think its 3.3 not 33

[stone birch]

because it increases your damage to the point that you are 1 hitting everything, even with nurgle's blessing, sans monstrosities. And they are getting chunked from 33%-50% of their health. its really good if you have good aim

[kind scarab]

It's saltzpyres Blessed shots. 1 stack = 1 crit shot

[urban shell]

Does the revolver just have a massive hitbox for headshots

[mystic belfry]

And its a gimmick

[kind scarab]

The other stacks are for tracking the other buffs you can get from the subnodes and an attack speed buff

[serene sage]

it really does feel that way haha

[frail anchor]

ahh, thank you

[stone birch]

it makes the sharpshooter fundamentally better at what its supposed to do.

[frank ether]

do you shoot at chaff with your vraks 7 or helbore 3?

I'd really like to see a game of this

its all talk talk talk t alk

[urban shell]

wew lad, no wonder I switched to it from the kantrael 12 and started having fun again

[mystic belfry]

Okay but you said it didn’t have a gimmick when it clearly does

[quaint cliff]

so how did vet work out
was he nerfed into the ground or?

[queen skiff]

Sorry, dumb question real quick. How many talent points can you get?

[fading fox]

Ok Vets. Psyker main here (BOOOOOOOOO I know)

How are we feeling about the update?

[urban shell]

at least with the revolver things have the dignity to die when you click on them

[kind scarab]

Functional, but you gotta make choices in what you'll live without

[serene sage]

1 per level, 30 max

[mystic belfry]

I’d rather have it reverted than have the capstones

[frank ether]

Its not the ammo pool its the mag

[hearty frigate]

Boltgun is best

[urban shell]

they keystones suck

[grave kayak]

Man, tier 1 nodes on the new tree are annoying, I'd rather have something like this instead of opportunity to pick smoke grenade no matter the path

I literally just need one or two points to be reasonably satisfied with new tree

[tiny igloo]

Is anyone having a bug where you can't pick a talent? It just keeps refunding itself and any dependencies when you scroll up or just at random?

[crisp bronze]

@heavy bridge @formal lake @gusty sonnet I have tried going for the Weapon Specialist and auto reload nodes. But in order to do that I need to lose Bring it Down! and Iron Will. Bring it Down! hurts especially because Crushers go from 2 shots to 3.

[fading fox]

Are they really that bad?

[kind scarab]

That's a normal bug, just close yer window and reopen it and it should sort itself out

[unkempt lagoon]

Ideal vet skill tree

[dusk idol]

change loadout and it’ll fix itself

[vague lintel]

Weapon specialist feels good but yeah you give up a lot

[mystic belfry]

I’m not happy as a melee shout vet actually

[kind scarab]

This also works

[queen skiff]

Thank you kindly

[fading fox]

I loved the support voice of command playstyle vet

[urban shell]

middle one is ok, right one is busted (good) the left one feels like it's meant for a completely different game

[frail anchor]

I guess I will still just be spamming plasma and voice of command on vet lol

[frank ether]

I dont see why you would want marksman on sniper weapons as opposed to just recon or iags

[viscid marlin]

Run. Run away, unless you like the pistol. In which case, embrace the bugs.

[frail anchor]

what is going on with the pistol?

[stone birch]

Left side got buffed, center got the nerf it needed, its easier to get more goodies earlier on in the tree now. I've yet to test my commando build, so not certain on that. Overall, I am REALLY liking the changes.

[sour elbow]

@urban shell I c u.

[kind scarab]

single fire weapons work great with right tree, so pistol is just strong

[candid tundra]

So, are they ever going remove the movement restriction/improve marksman's focus next patch or does nobody care as much as I do that they virtually ruined my lasgun anti shooter build lmao

[cinder wadi]

Imma try running this with the revolver, I like the dmg (also don't mind standing still)

[quaint cliff]

dear god is melee shout vet gone?
is it doable anymore?

[mystic belfry]

It’s doable just fine

[frank ether]

all the glue eaters enjoy it so no its gonna be just like smoke grenades

[heavy bridge]

Anything with big single shots is strong really, but the Revolver clearly gets the most out of it

[frank ether]

take it or leave it

[mystic belfry]

I just hate the shit they did with the tree

[kind scarab]

There's nothing wrong with left capstone, it just needs a different mindset/playstyle than what people are expecting to do with it.

[wraith locust]

Requires skill now

[stone birch]

Melee shout vet is still amazing.

[quaint cliff]

I'm done for

[candid tundra]

It pisses me off so much

[kind scarab]

It's a run and gun capstone, not a sit still and shoot capstone

[vague hull]

hi friends im trying to convince a friend to play darktide, anyone got cool vet gun action gameplay

[west quartz]

they didn't touch the ammo regen? That's really disappointing. They're balancing vet and every other class around it being present every game. I'd really rather they just rework it.

[vague hull]

like short clips

[frank ether]

its funny cause it works the best with weapons that have nothing to do with sharpshooter theme lmao

[grave kayak]

Shout is noticeably weaker and we no longer have hidden buff in grenade talent

[frank ether]

just a bunch of people who want to press F and magdump at hordes

thats what the keystone is for

and also for roleplayers

[urban shell]

maybe one day there'll be a reason to use anything that isn't the revolver or plasmagun

[mystic belfry]

Look up ChocoB on YouTube

[serene sage]

dont look up some of the builds though. they are erm not great

[sour elbow]

lasrifle and laspistols are fun to use. That's good enough for me.

[dusk idol]

show him clips of chocoB

[fading anvil]

Yeah the left and right capstones are like inverse. Left capstone is better for run and gunning with an automatic weapon where right capstone is better for the singleshot weapons

[heavy bridge]

if anything it's less sharpshooter and more infantryman. It works really well on all the basic rifles but not the sniper weapons.

[sick marsh]

I have a vague feeling, considering that there's an unreleased Cadian pack, I'd regret not snagging a helmet that matches in Cadian colours. and the agrippa helmet in that nox wars pack has one so... might as well.

[radiant chasm]

brauto and HHs

[candid tundra]

Like, I love running and gunning with my columnus, laspistol, etc but the first playstyle I had was with the mg 12 and mg 1a as a primarily anti shooter and anti elite, less mobile and more for sniping but i still ran from cover to cover, mobility is super necessary regardless of the playstyle

[wind patio]

They seemed to just, hard nerf Veteran it seems, and it feels like you have to "hard focus" on what's good instead of picking things up that are strong.

It might be fine, considering it made a lot of builds very same-y since you were basically required to get the good middle tree perks and stuff, but I'll have to test to see if I like what they did.....

[south garnet]

vets that use guns are stupid anyway. their job is to carry ammo, freak out and run away from anything that comes near enough to breathe on them

[candid tundra]

Literally it's so fucking stupid imo, the movement restriction boils my blood

[dusk idol]

telopots is also great

[mystic belfry]

Same as their Vermintide stuff, they just use whatever

[kind scarab]

That's why if you want to do that, you should just use the right capstone.

[raw steppe]

idk that seems like a better game design direction to me

[kind scarab]

Sniping is for that side, run and gun is left side.

[frank ether]

Its irrelevant to zero IQ weapons like iags or recons so they will endlessly defend it

[candid tundra]

Being forced to do that is so stupid, wish they would actually make it versatile and usable

[raw steppe]

picking stuff for a build rather than just picking a bunch of disconnected but overpowered shit

[wind patio]

Yeah, I might enjoy it.

[radiant chasm]

why does everyone act like the movement restriction is a pain you get three seconds per headshot kill

[desert isle]

wait run and gun is left side???

[unkempt lagoon]

What are best rashad combat axe blessings?
BrMomentum, but not sure about the others

[raw steppe]

it also falls off like.... REALLY slowly

[rapid hull]

Hh

[radiant chasm]

headtaker

[frank ether]

you can also potentially make it work on braced autos if you just go stripped down route and run at gunners

[mystic belfry]

Nerf vet so you need to take a capstone to make up for it, which forces you into specific perk lines you don’t want :)

[unkempt lagoon]

right thanks!

[kind scarab]

And a whole second per regular headshot, so you can just run and gun

Ain't even gotta kill

[radiant chasm]

LOL really, thanks dis, someone told me this morning it goes away all at once

[frank ether]

brrautos not really made for headshots but fuck it you can make it work better than a vraks probably

[candid tundra]

^^^ literally this

[serene sage]

we should remove the class and start over

[foggy cloak]

look how they massacred my boy

[gilded rock]

I haven't tried the marksman keystone but the restriction seems like an interesting mechanic, just don't piss yourself and panic, and aim good. Seems like the designated high-skill keystone

[raw steppe]

there's a bunch of people why haven't even tried any of the changes and are just in here shitposting and raging LOL

[radiant chasm]

oh i wouldn't go brauto with sharpshooter, def middle or right tree

[urban shell]

this fuckin sucks dude, I just want my 75% ranged damage resist back..

[quaint nest]

Wait I just started vet did they nerfed it already?

[heavy bridge]

I think gamers are just averse in general to losing stacks and not having optimal damage.
It's a feels bad mechanic, even if balance wise it's still pretty good

[raw steppe]

the stacks fall off 1 at a time, very slowly

[serene sage]

tbf that's part of the fun

[fading anvil]

Yeah it makes me think they didnt actually really test the capstones in actual gameplay cause left tree is supposed to be about accurate marksmanship n shit but the capstone fits WAY WAY better with running and gunning an automatic weapon. Then rightside is the one that actually synergizes well with the singleshot weapons

[radiant chasm]

you mean what was 75% DR always?

[serene sage]

it's funny to see reactions

[south garnet]

uh jeez ok well you could at least mention me by name ok

[strange inlet]

Does weapon specialist work as written? I thought that with 3 or 4 stacks you should have over 100% crit chance, so that should be 5 seconds of ammo free "brrr" from the recon lasgun. Didn't seem to work in the psykhanium though...

[radiant chasm]

75% ranged DR never stopped applying to all toughness damage regardless of source

[frank ether]

right side synergizes well with revolver, thats rly about it

[kind scarab]

Pretty much, but lots of people are crying cause they want something that just works without any involvement. Which in that case... take the camo subnode? It literally makes it so you generate stacks while holding still faster than you lose them while running.

[raw steppe]

it's 1-shot within 5 seconds, so use a revolver

[frank ether]

you get big crit on your first shot

then its attack speed

not all that useful

[robust cosmos]

I see only the right keystone worth for an mellee build using a shotgun. Did like with blessing and stealth ult dmg bonuses arround 1000 per shot. Plus ur crits

[frank ether]

for marksman guns

[dusk idol]

does aight with shotguns, revolvers like it better

[urban shell]

Hold up what's the concensus on the Mg XII now

[mystic belfry]

It’s for revolver and plasma tbh

[frank ether]

shotguns work in similar logic

[strange inlet]

What, that's awful

[wind patio]

Just that my prefered playstyle was melee shout vet, which apparently was kinda braindead.
I agree, so it might be positive, but Idunno... Veteran was still not broken with complete meta picks.

[radiant chasm]

like god damn thank god old CK and old UF are dead and buried, now vet can eventually be balanced

[gilded rock]

Oh so there's ALSO a way to minimize the interactive part of the ability 💀

[fading anvil]

I loop revolver into the Marksman category of guns since it's all about popping the priority targets then putting away

[raw steppe]

it's quite good actually

[gilded rock]

Now I gotta try it

[wind patio]

I feel like we got nothing to compensate, so I'll have to test the keystones to see if it was a worthwhile trade

[raw steppe]

guaranteed crit and 15% melee attackspeed

[heavy bridge]

yeah revolvers and shotguns love the crits and auto-loading

[gusty sonnet]

but-but magsize :copium:

[radiant chasm]

they just need to get rid of the tree issues like taxing nodes and it's good

[white minnow]

marksman stacks drop 1-by-1 so it seems pretty neat

[dusk idol]

it absolutely was bordering op

[kind scarab]

Yea, you get to have 1 stack per 0.75 seconds of holding still. While you LOSE only 1 stack per 1 second of running.

[raw steppe]

guaranteed crit will kill any special/elite you quickswap for

and 15% melee attackspeed is absolutely disgusting

[kind scarab]

So you effectively generate more stacks than you lose

[raw steppe]

and it's permanent pretty much

10 seconds

[urban shell]

hold up i'll be at the elevator soon i'm just crouch walking to the door

[kind scarab]

Run to the door 5head

[radiant chasm]

just keep getting headshots and you'll be able to speed through maps like normal

[west quartz]

wild to me they reworked this whole tree an ammo aura remains a must-pick

[vague lintel]

this with mk6 psword felt really insane

[kind scarab]

While waiting in the elevator you'll get to max stacks

[urban shell]

but the stacks

[gilded rock]

And that's if you are not actively head-clicking, which is the entire point of the ability xd

[radiant chasm]

not to mention it generates really quick

[mystic belfry]

Right let me just never move between hordes when there is few or no headshots to be had

[radiant chasm]

you lose them slowly, or not at all if you keep getting weakspot hits and kills, and you generate them back quickly

[fading anvil]

I bet they had no idea what to replace the ammo aura with so that's why it wasnt touched

[kind scarab]

People really just be ignoring the camo perk like it don't exist and put you at max stacks

[gusty sonnet]

Honestly fuck it, make veteran have only the scavenger aura available

[zealous wyvern]

i am enjoying the call keystone

[kind scarab]

Like bruh, this right here

[gilded rock]

Ehhh, nope.

[radiant chasm]

if you are running iwht multiple ogryns/zealots it is a must

[ruby fulcrum]

I'd legit skip the aura nodes to save a point if I could keep the default 0.75% on kill

[kind scarab]

This alone

Makes the whole capstone braindead to use

[frigid swallow]

who doesnt like more dakka xD

[wind patio]

Ye, that's what I said. It bordered OP, but not broken. Not like bugged surge staff levels. They were a survivable melee class that was very strong against any enemy if played correctly, but playing them correctly wasn't too difficult.

[west quartz]

it's not an absolute must-pick or wipe. But the difference between having it compared to any other aura in the game is staggering

[south garnet]

hahaha the idea of someone walking while crouched for any duration of time

[radiant chasm]

it's not about specific weapons, ammo aura is a massive team buff and way better than both damage and MS

[south garnet]

I don't know why that's so funny to me

[grave kayak]

Ratling gameplay experience

[mystic belfry]

Just gotta always crouch walk good gameplay there

[white minnow]

you don't always need to crouch walk

[fading anvil]

Being able to keep not just yourself but your whole team better supplied on ammo is huge

[untold mulch]

Crab walk combat

[ruby fulcrum]

Helps team mates substantially. Let's you do a lot more dumb stuff with ammo to be saver and not have a care in the world of running out. It provides a huge cushion of safety to quick play teammates that may or may not enjoy the taste of glue.

[mystic belfry]

Rp doing the swat walk

[kind scarab]

Crouch dodging doesn't make you lose stacks

[zealous wyvern]

crab walk meta

[serene sage]

People who like melee builds wonder why people who like shooty builds love their ammo.

Science can't explain this.

[zealous wyvern]

[untold mulch]

I bet it was Crab who voted for it smh

[south garnet]

oooo, now that's something

[radiant chasm]

yes, but enemies are still ammo printers so...

[west quartz]

I just can't see a world where they can reasonably balance around ammo aura without making it an even more necessary pick

[white minnow]

you don't lose stacks that quickly, you maintain stacks for 1 second on a weakspot hit, and you maintain them for 3 seconds on a weakspot kill

[radiant chasm]

i hate this line of thinking LMAO

[zealous wyvern]

dumb it

[crisp bronze]

Melee VoC Vet is still very much alive. My build can swap between VoC and Infiltrate pretty easily and 2/1 shots everything in the game on damnation with my Revolver.

[untold mulch]

[gilded rock]

Occasionally, as a treat.

[radiant chasm]

do you know how many trash shooters, elites, and specials there will be in an auric mission? and how good that ammo rebate aura is?

[south garnet]

I'm just imagining the player who is really trying to squeeze every last drop of utility out of that sub node and squat scooting everywhere

[untold mulch]

This tbh

like, someitmes

[raw steppe]

arguably it was buffed

[untold mulch]

Is just

[rigid rock]

If they put just one more required filler node in someplace, they could remove the code that prevents you from having multiple capstones.

[untold mulch]

a bit

[frank ether]

does this look like a stack per second to you?

[raw steppe]

cuz now you have 25% attackspeed instead of 15% attackspeed

[frail anchor]

so it seems that if you get the crucian roulette bless on revolver and only reload it with always prepared you can cook up 100% crit chance on the revolver

[raw steppe]

permanently

[serene sage]

Tbf I'm also guilty. It's fun, alright

[coarse tide]

hey @tame minnow i've got a question

what the fuck

[west quartz]

I wouldn't care but they're balancing weapons around the idea that it's present. They're reducing ammo pools in response to gameplay enabled by having so much excess ammo.

[gilded rock]

Bolter spray into a poxwalker horde is so fun, I just gotta indulge once a mission

[untold mulch]

i tried to use recon now in the new mission

I actually tried to crab walk a few times trying to keep my stacks active

Realized it was dumb af, and stopped

[heavy bridge]

I've swapped off of Ammo when doing premades, but when in with randos that IS what people do lmao. They see a single rager and 5 pox walkers and dump half their magazine into them

[radiant chasm]

mfw I walk into a room, charge into shooters, and get shot to death by the other 75% of them that are spread out

mfw I simply melee every sniper, bomber, flamer, and trapper

[quaint nest]

https://tenor.com/view/sushichaeng-stan-twitter-homer-simpson-rain-gif-25606317

[mystic belfry]

I’m still not over marksman being less weak point damage than the flat 30% higher in the tree

[radiant chasm]

I'm a zealot, vet brain

[frigid swallow]

The Catachan Experience

[untold mulch]

YOu don't have ammo problems if you play like a Zealot

Smh

sorry wans't meaning to tag you

[radiant chasm]

I slid out of my mom

[fading anvil]

The 15 gunners hidden behind a trash can would like you know your location

[radiant chasm]

and I never stopped

[west quartz]

but also, the other auras are laughably bad lol. 5% dmg. 5% walking speed? or an entirely new gameplay style enabled by near infinite ammo?

[crisp bronze]

Hold on. Did you just test this? Are you able to send a clip because that sounds crazy.

[serene sage]

Just melee them

[lusty sonnet]

I’ve come here to drink away my pain of our “keystone buff”

[frail anchor]

I just tested this

[lusty sonnet]

Cheers 🍻

[untold mulch]

Yeahhhhhhh

[heavy bridge]

Man the Weapon Specialist keystone looks so genuinely fun

[serene sage]

I'll drink to the nerfed Confirmed Kills

[golden axle]

its the good one

[dusk idol]

wish it wasnt expensive though

[kind scarab]

Crouch dodge meta, no stacks lost. (This video is to just meme on the people complaining about stack loss, when they haven't even tested anything out for themselves to discover stuff like this.)

[radiant chasm]

or just walk

like, just take your hand off the shift key

[hearty panther]

ur rapier looks funny

[dusk idol]

wow, this looks so fun and engaging!

[fading anvil]

Specialist and Tagger are probably neck n neck in terms of being good just two different niches. Marksman stacks are just kinda not great. Not bad just- underwhelming

[kind scarab]

You lose stacks on walking

[frank ether]

brother I literally just debunked the bs you were spewing the entire day

[dusk idol]

let me hang myself rq!

[frank ether]

its not a stack per second it goes down a lot faster

[swift slate]

Walking removes stacks

[viral nacelle]

I don’t really care if it’s possible for people to meme their way out of dealing with the “no move to keep stacks”, it’s a dumb mechanic

And it teaches vets to play dumb

[swift slate]

It’s a horrible mechanic

[frigid swallow]

in a horde shooter, u cant stay still lol

[serene sage]

It will be worth it for Reddit drama

[radiant chasm]

was referencing that you could shot people while walking

[golden axle]

holy hell though trying to fidangle the PS6 push L4 crusher combo breakpoint into the new talent tree is ass

[untold mulch]

Hard numbers?

[radiant chasm]

it would be if it wasn't so easy to ignore in normal gameplay

[white minnow]

one by one

[swift slate]

Encourages players to move less in a game where moving is the worst thing to do

[radiant chasm]

bad players are going to sit in one spot and die

[daring peak]

plasgun build thoughts?

[radiant chasm]

good players will basically have no penalty

[white minnow]

yeah, if you're bad, then you're going to stick in one spot lol

[hearty panther]

Y'all trip on minmaxing random numbers way too hard

[gilded rock]

It is, the attack speed buff is very funny

[kind scarab]

5 second clip, 5 stacks lost. Get off my ass. Only one here talking mad shit is yourself.

[white minnow]

do you not realize that you maintain stacks on weakspot hits and kills

[swift slate]

Just ignore an entire mechanic that’s supposed to help you

[livid relic]

this is my problem

[swift slate]

Good one

[serene sage]

That's why I everywhere

[frigid swallow]

lol its forcing us to play as a Tau Fire Warrior XD

[white minnow]

if you can't hit heads, that's fine

[radiant chasm]

3 seconds is so much time to get a new headshot kill it's hilarious

[west quartz]

I still think encouraging players to stand still is bad design

[white minnow]

but that doesn't mean that the keystone is bad

[viral nacelle]

Thanks obese fish for making all my pug vets 30% dumber

[south garnet]

[white minnow]

like just go into the psykhanium to see how fast you lose stacks

you really do not lose stacks that quickly while moving

[south garnet]

fuck, this gets me so good

[fading anvil]

Man even the Firewarrior game the best strat was running into melee to barrel stuff shit if I recall lmao

[radiant chasm]

no just land headshots and don't be a shitter

[frank ether]

in my recording its roughly 6 seconds of sprinting to run out of all 10 stacks.

[radiant chasm]

it's that easy

[hearty panther]

Yes Vets have always been a very silly bunch

[serene sage]

Aren't that Psykers?

[winter dock]

I tried that VId build in an auric damn and it struggled still

[swift slate]

No because no other character is tasked with so much to get a mechanic to work for them

[winter dock]

It killed things alright but the ammo problem is very very real

[untold mulch]

Oh, yes sprinting looks like ti takes like at double rate

[minor brook]

game is so much easier with a psyker on your team

[frank ether]

you're walking you buffoon

[radiant chasm]

i already played a game of this I barely ever lost stacks

[serene sage]

I'm just basing it off the post FS Twitter showed

[radiant chasm]

tasked with so much like, aiming

aiming on a gun class

oh woe is veteran

[heavy bridge]

getting headshots isn't really that much work

[hearty panther]

Lol disrupt destiny wants to know your location

[livid relic]

So you're just not paying attention, huh

[south garnet]

good vets can smooth over almost any run and consistently carry hi shock dam including stuff like vent purge and sniper, bad vets are literally worse than having bots around

[zealous wyvern]

i do feel like vet skills have the most conditions to pop

[viral nacelle]

Man fuck that whole line

[dusk idol]

do you know how quickly you lose stacks if you’re sprint sliding?

[kind scarab]

Yes, because in combat you're not sprinting in a horde. You're walking you chucklefuck.

[mystic belfry]

Psyker only need to spam shards or smite to be valuable to the team. Hard to be that bad

[kind scarab]

[radiant chasm]

I am

[winter dock]

I think the Acc VII might actually be good now tho, with focus/onslaught. But I need a good roll to test out to be certain

[strange inlet]

I personally like 30% extra reload speed on it

[south garnet]

which is not SPECIFICALLY a dig at xbox players, but kind of is

[serene sage]

Distribution is different for different difficulties then

[white minnow]

it's a keystone with an economy that goes down and up with engagements

[untold mulch]

Its a fact pretty much

[radiant chasm]

I guess zealots are just better shots than veterans

[frank ether]

I can test in a moment

[dusk idol]

what

[fading anvil]

Yeah I think the issue people are taking with the new Keystones is how un-passive they feel. Like every other class you really don't need to play any differently to get maximum benefit from the keystones

[white minnow]

like it's not free damage and that's a good thing

[viral nacelle]

I tried to make it work with melee + revolver and DD killed my will to live

[minor brook]

hit reg and needing multiple weakspot hits on specialists hidden in a horde is really annoying

[soft solstice]

ok, i'm really enjoying the nwe commando keystone, but I don't like how much it messes up my ability to switch normally, I stay on my las pistol for way longer than I would and use it on trash so I don't use up my melee stack on a single guy and vice versa

[heavy bridge]

Like, if you were taking Marksman Focus, you should always get headshots anyway.

If you can't get headshots, don't take the keystone. Simple as.

[viral nacelle]

Ought to call it Disrupt Deez

[swift slate]

I literally wasn’t having a problem then this update comes along and now I’m having a hard time

[radiant chasm]

DD wants to know your location, as does the ogryn left keystone

[dusk idol]

if you don’t sprint slide to avoid gunfire tf is wrong with you

[frank ether]

lmao I can't even

[untold mulch]

Yep, you need to keep the keystone on mind constantly

[livid relic]

Zealot literally gets free damage all the time lmao

[radiant chasm]

any weakspot kill is 3 seconds

[daring peak]

i'll just reload cancel..

[south garnet]

to think I was afraid to try psyker initially because of 'all the stuff to micromanage'

[white minnow]

and I don't like that

[frank ether]

like yeah ok when I'm chased by chaff I will calmly walk

[kind scarab]

I crouch dodge

[hearty panther]

Yea but arco i cant use it if i dont have max stacks at 100% uptime dont you geeeet iiiiit

[frank ether]

that makes sense

[winter dock]

The focus target one has odd behavior and given its position in the tree is a huge amount of investment for a very eh buff

[white minnow]

martyrdom and momentum evidently need to be tweaked

[winter dock]

Weapons Specialist is actively broken

[white minnow]

like why are people trying to use obviously overtuned stuff as the baseline

[dusk idol]

that’s foul

[south garnet]

well, guns are immeasurably complex, after all

[livid relic]

Right but if the game is going to have free-damage keystones, then maybe they should apply at least a little consistency

[white minnow]

no

[minor brook]

im just saying other classes need far less conditions

[kind scarab]

Works great for avoiding snipers

[dusk idol]

but I mean if it works for you, I guess?

[balmy flume]

Right, time to update the game…and see if I can tolerate this update of being a Vet

[radiant chasm]

but it is free damage

[swift slate]

People want to act like I’m bad at the game or something but now there’s a whole mechanic designed around standing still in a game that standing still gets you killed

[kind scarab]

And trappers

[winter dock]

Does not work as written, doesn't even work as intended either. It's just a weirdass effect with 90% of its text being irrelevant

[white minnow]

other stuff being overtuned is not a reason for this to be overtuned

[radiant chasm]

if you are going the MARKSMAN TREE

[fading anvil]

Like Ogryn heavy hits is literally just a buff for already using your heavy attacks

[radiant chasm]

then you should be ready to go for headshots

[dusk idol]

i’d prefer to stay mobile and moving though when the shit gets thick

[livid relic]

Exactly this.

[white minnow]

shame that you maintain stacks on weakspot hits and kills

[south garnet]

please only play vet if you have a phd in business and a project management cert

[white minnow]

have you gone into the psykhanium to see how fast you lose stacks

have you actually taken the keystone in an actual game

[viral nacelle]

I’m fine with a vet thing that drains like warp charges do, but removing the “while walking” condition is critical to prevent a total lobotomization of the average vet player

[white minnow]

to see how it performs

like god damn

[frank ether]

it seems even faster

[gilded rock]

Shoot head
Dodge
Repeat

It's that shrimple

[viral nacelle]

I am going to run into so many pugs who will refuse to move because “muh stacks”

[dusk idol]

it’s what i felt while i was running it

[winter dock]

marksmans focus is the only keystone that actually functions correctly- and it's pretty good. If you node for it, it's basically free +100% finesse on all weapons that can consistently keep the buff up (most automatics, and the faster semi-autos like the Lasguns and the Headhunters. Bolter/Plasma/revolver can get and keep, but it takes alot more effort and conscious movement)

[untold mulch]

Crab walk meta

[frank ether]

like each sprint slide it takes off like 2 stacks

[dusk idol]

i was dropping stacks extremely quickly trying to avoid gunners

[livid relic]

How about we just lose stacks on non-weak spot hits? That makes more sense to me and facilitates play that doesn't involve sliding around and crabwalking

[radiant chasm]

yes and that is cause the average vet has room tempurature faith in the god emperor

[serene sage]

Melee enemies exist?

[kind scarab]

Crab dodge meta tyvm

[white minnow]

fast firerate weapons rip

[fading anvil]

Fatshark is just giving Veteran the authetic Imperial guard experience

[untold mulch]

If you are actively trying to stay alive you lose them all fast

[viscid marlin]

Functions even better then the description, since you can refresh the full amount of stacks even on a 1 mark stack kill.

[slow sky]

i honestly just prefer the right keystone
its just pretty good passive benefits that are nearly always active

[winter dock]

A much better idea yeah. Just lose multiple stacks every time a shot isn't a headshot (so bodies and misses)

[livid relic]

Lmao, you want perks to be universally good on all weapons?

[slow sky]

no special build, no specific playstyle

just good fucking buffs for playing the game

[frank ether]

Honestly its insulting that this even made it past testing

[balmy flume]

Eh, if it sucks I will just sell my soul to Genshin or Warframe.

[radiant chasm]

i mean it is good on all weapons

[viral nacelle]

Literally you could have the keystone work exactly the same but remove the words “while walking” and I’d be 100% fine with it

[white minnow]

i just don't think that firerate should factor in the viability of a node like that

[viral nacelle]

My problem is that the current phrasing is idiot bait

[radiant chasm]

even mk3 helbore doesn't take 3 seconds when you stack up onslaught

[elder vessel]

Anyone having audio lines cut halfway through?

[kind scarab]

Left capstone works that way if you're not a little bitch about "losing your stacks" since with the Camo subnode you get them back very quickly

[south garnet]

anyone else just completely lose track of any buff indicators at the bottom completely the second a match starts? not only do half of them look basically identical or get reused in other classes, but you end up with like fuckin 15 of them

[white minnow]

and what's wrong with wanting something to be globally good given the conditions for marksman?

[kind scarab]

And you have a whole ass 3 seconds of them not leaving if you get a headshot kill

[dusk idol]

I guess I don’t mind the buff it gives, it’s just the mobility gimping doesn’t jam with how I play

[sleek junco]

If by slowly you mean extremely fast, then you're correct

[viscid marlin]

😭

[livid relic]

But it does, and there are other nodes that also affect viability depending on the fire rate of the weapon. Onslaught, for one

[robust mesa]

😠 Go back to the last vet tree this one is ass

[south garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/ken-jeong-community-too-small-to-read-read-reading-gif-5494204

[dusk idol]

can’t use it

[south garnet]

what's this buff

[slow sky]

what mr lmao

[radiant chasm]

also 1 second on hits, so you can maintain stacks vs monsters

[white minnow]

yeah and?

[raw steppe]

hit headshots lol

[white minnow]

do all talents need to have the same design?

[radiant chasm]

this one is def better

[viral nacelle]

🌅

[white minnow]

what is this argument

[radiant chasm]

still has the same issues, too many tax/worthless nodes

[viscid marlin]

29, im about to hit legendary 1 but ive been lazy

[radiant chasm]

but it's perfectly fine to carry with

[winter dock]

Thats actually Fatshark's intent. The entire reason they didnt give us Capstones to begin with was cuz the idea of weapons being locked to the keystones they synergize with had bad feedback in testing way too late for them to come up with replacements so they just removed the keystones. Then we bitched that we didnt have keystones so they gave us the keystones back except they're bugged to all hell cuz I guess they assigned a single intern to coding them

[white minnow]

it's a keystone that rewards you for hitting headshots, and that's that

[south garnet]

I would like some new talents. not ones in the game, just in real life

[half wigeon]

@winter dock was wondering what are the best blessing / perk for the the recon 6

[radiant chasm]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-surprised-gasp-what-cat-shock-gif-635629308990545194

[livid relic]

Lmfao what is YOUR argument, bro, you want the keystone to be equivically effective regardless of your build? That seems ridiculous to me.

[minor brook]

feel like the nerf to the toughness regen perk is really annoying

[fading anvil]

Yeah the tree just needs to be compressed down so Vet can reach their Keystones with 17-15 points like the rest of the classes, considering it takes 21 points as is

[radiant chasm]

mfw marksman subclass has to marksman

[minor brook]

forgot which one that was called

[soft solstice]

the sniper tree of the ranged class is high skill, who would have guessed

[radiant chasm]

yee i agree with this

[frank ether]

so losing 10 stacks in 6 seconds of sprint is not quick but gaining 10 in 7.5 seconds is

[white minnow]

yeah, it's effective depending on whether you can hit headshots

[slow sky]

im 28, and have enough stuff to level during this coming affinity boost weekend to reach 30 lmao

[south garnet]

which is ironically not for a literal marksman at all in utility

[viral nacelle]

WDYM, gunlugger isn’t high skill?

[viscid marlin]

Yes.. All of them should be effective, the only different should be the playstyle in how the effects are applied.

[fading anvil]

That and give us some bridges between trees in the deeper ends

[prime kestrel]

slide dodges eat 2 charges????

[glacial ermine]

all new keystones are garbage lmao, also shoutouts to the genius devs that are struggling to fix a single symbol messing up exhilerating takedown

[white minnow]

like I said, the core design of the keystone is that "hit headshots = good"

[stone birch]

one node on the left is broken from what I am seeing. the 10% rending upgrade does not work or applies such a small bonues that it only adds like, 2 points of damage.

[zealous wyvern]

you have a thousand hours and are not 30?

[radiant chasm]

you can absolute stack ridic bonuses with exec stance and focus

[livid relic]

The MARKSMAN keystone is effective regardless of whether or not you're a Marksman, yes, I find this counterintuitive, thanks for pointing that out

[grim dawn]

is chainsaw plasma gun still goated ?

[radiant chasm]

you can just keep mowing down targets and advancing like terminator

[viscid marlin]

I could but ive played since before it was even on steam and its my comfy game so i just chill and do whatever i want and make builds for sp.

[grim dawn]

why

[fast heart]

[radiant chasm]

please my sides, i can'ts top laughing

[minor brook]

cant believe it was a known bug and still not patched

[fast heart]

IT DINGS

[frank ether]

it rewards you for racking up headshot kills, not carefully lining up headshots or anything like that. So it will work better on spam guns, not marksman guns. The keystone is a fundemental failure and a meme.

[south garnet]

it's 'being worked on' per catfish. that line of code has been open for weeks man, can't you see how hard they're working on it? you're also glossing over on how hard they've been working on the new bugs they just added

[livid relic]

I agree, it's hilarious

[grim dawn]

whats s tier ?

[viscid marlin]

rude i like my revvy swingy swing

[viscid marlin]

another class 😂

[slow sky]

30 requires so much time dude, the fact that ill be 30 in a few days is already massive

[zealous wyvern]

sounds horrible

[white minnow]

so it's not that hard to do, and yet people are complaining about losing stacks

[slow sky]

most people get to 30 multiple thousands of hours in

[swift ingot]

I’m sticking with me chainsword till I get Power Cycler 4 for my power sword

[untold mulch]

Also I heard the melee vet keystone is better for single shot

[frank ether]

its not hard on a gun that can rack up 30 gunners in a mag

[slow sky]

volgona is 29 right now and has 6x as much hours as me

[untold mulch]

World upside down

[glacial ermine]

its amazing and it makes sharpshooter even more garbage than before cause they gutted confirmed kill

[dusk idol]

what

[grim dawn]

currently use this

[zealous wyvern]

that is horror

[frank ether]

only for your first shot

[zealous wyvern]

i dislike warframe

[untold mulch]

What

[zealous wyvern]

now

[livid relic]

Because they have a problem with the way it functions and the fact that it makes the simple act of moving your character counter-productive in a game where mobility is everything

[untold mulch]

OH WARFRAME

[kind scarab]

You get 3 per HS kill. The timer on losing them stops for 3 seconds on kill as well. So effectively Ex stance. If you can keep up yer Ex stance, you should be able to keep up your capstone.

[viscid marlin]

I pretty much stopped caring about it 6 years in, and i'm on year 10 now so i just play for fun and don't care about mastery and stuff like that.

[untold mulch]

Yeah warframe grind is hell

[tulip condor]

QUICK: which is better? GO!

[dusk idol]

OH it’s warframe talk

[white minnow]

if you can't answer "yes" when I ask if you've taken the keystone into an actual game or at the very least tested it in the psykhanium, just shut the fuck up

[glacial ermine]

TRUE.

[viral nacelle]

It’s definitely deez

[kind scarab]

Not to mention if you grab the camo subnode you're getting back stacks for just standing still while lining up your shots

[grim dawn]

go farm forma tenno

plague star is up

[fading anvil]

Yeah if the stacks just decayed if you didnt land headshots I think it'd be fine but the issue of actively taking stacks by moving, no matter how easy it is to regain them, just feels bad

[untold mulch]

I would say only a game

Psykanium may make things look better than they are in practice

[viscid marlin]

just got done farming 70 today.. I gotta rest.

[dusk jacinth]

is the new talent tree as bad as everyone says it in

[kind scarab]

Nah, cause I feel too many people fucking suck at veteran which is why losing the stacks to walking sucks.

[grim dawn]

no keep going

[kind scarab]

Since they apparently aren't good enough to get them in the first place

[tulip condor]

no

different

[white minnow]

yeah, which is why I preferably want them to just play with the god damn keystone before forming a strong opinion

[grim dawn]

loki augment allow you to tp out of the cave

[winged sonnet]

I just want the shit nodes that I have to take to progress a tree like +25% suppression removed lmao

[tardy turtle]

no, you can replicate most of your builds you had before

[viscid marlin]

Ive been doing 70-90 per day for like 6 days let me die T__T

[slow sky]

then again
mr 15 is the only milestone you really have to reach
anything beyond that is just to raise certain caps
the difference between mr 15 and mr 30 is huge too
562,500 mastery for mr 15, and 2,250,000 for mr 30, and getting mastery is way easier early on

[viral nacelle]

If Obesefish was smart they’d have just made the vet stacks decay no matter what just like warp charges

[tulip condor]

still good, just not as good

[white minnow]

I haven't heard a "yes I've taken it into a game yet" and it's frustrating to hear opinions from people who apparently haven't even taken it into a game

[muted knot]

Oh those two are both me !

[grim dawn]

100 format boltor 🗿

[viscid marlin]

I'll do you one better, how about a 300 forma kavat.

[manic badger]

The only complaint I have about the vet tree is the fucking pathing sucks

[balmy flume]

I caught up to my friend who stopped at MR20 and that too is where I will stop.

[grim dawn]

adarza kavat

[kind scarab]

At least with warp charges your team can give you warp charges just for existing

[serene sage]

Yes I've taken it into a game.
I might also be a liar.

[untold mulch]

As of now, I feel like I can keep the stacks with a full auto weapon.

But is terribly UNFUN to me, because my brain needs to constantly try for headshots even if a body shot would be easier + completely aware of how much I am moving.

Not for me, will wait for another patch

[kind scarab]

So you're effectively always at max warp charges

[muted knot]

Is this #veteran-class or #warframe ?

[dusk jacinth]

whats the new sharpshooter build

[manic badger]

WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT WARFRAME IN A DARKTIDE THREAD DM EACH OTHER

[glacial ermine]

All fancy new keystones are meh. whats the actual point of weapon specialist? wooow more damage on a skill line that already had plenty of damage before the update

[dusk jacinth]

nidus goated?

[white minnow]

yeah it encourages a playstyle change and that's quite good

[dusk jacinth]

where my hydroid mains at

[manic badger]

IM TRYING TO READ PEOPLE BITCHING

[zealous wyvern]

why are you talking about people talking about warframe in a darktide channel?!

ioh wait

[south garnet]

to be fair, warframe is more generous with rewarding you for the time you invest

[zealous wyvern]

damn

bye

[grim dawn]

who are you loyal to lotus or the emperor

[viral nacelle]

In fairness haha vets

[frank ether]

I'd prefer making it have no ties to movement at all and instead make it so bodyshot kills or misses take away stacks

or time

[white minnow]

I like keystones that encourage some activeness on your part to trigger

[dusk idol]

I have, yes. In my game my stacks disappeared quite quickly despite landing consistent headshots with the revolver. I don’t doubt that people may be able to pull it off, but I don’t personally like the keystone. I do not like being punished for moving or going into melee, and I feel like I can have a more consistent time by just putting my talent points somewhere else

[untold mulch]

Imo, I think the specific playstyle change that it tries is shit

[viscid marlin]

so good now

[white minnow]

disrupt destiny on psyker is quite fun for that

[muted knot]

I literally could not give less of a fuck

[frank ether]

anything but this weird shit where spray and pray at head level keeps your stacked

[manic badger]

Warframe is for people who only fuck missionsry

[frank ether]

but nothing else does

[south garnet]

which is a sentence I never in a hundred years imagined I would ever utter about warframe btw

[frank ether]

and slow guns are even worse to play

[tall torrent]

They need to buff it to be ranged kill instead of ranged weakspot kill

[viral nacelle]

It’s incredible at making me mald when it spawns on a baddy inside a wall

[heavy bridge]

Guaranteed crits and automatic reloads are nice on revolvers and shotguns, what more do you want

[serene sage]

How would you feel if tomorrow they made Zealot a support only character? Like supreme strong and viable support but no damage.

[viscid marlin]

I mean i can get something as soon as it comes out in under 2 hours most of the time.

[slow sky]

about 300,000 mastery total
which is where i slowed down a lot too
by this point youre scrounging for mastery tbh

[livid relic]

This is my thing as well, and I know I'm not the only one. Even if the keystone results in an overall damage increase, my mind is constantly aware that every time I move, I'm losing stacks. It feels like ass tbh

[south garnet]

huh

[white minnow]

i don't play zealot so I have no opinion on them

[flint lake]

It’s good for CQC infinite cleave shotguns but you’re just using a worse plasma by then really. You get better quick draw but loose out on so much else.

[atomic zephyr]

do you guys think its worth trying to get a better mg12?

[tardy turtle]

warframe is for people who fuck

[untold mulch]

Yeah ,that would also be a hand to Xbox players, that probably can't use the thing period

[fading anvil]

Yeah I feel like going a similar route to Ogryn's heavy hitter keystone and how it builds/decays would have been preferable. none of this weird tying it to movement stuff

[tall torrent]

Left

[manic badger]

Dogs

[untold mulch]

Yep, it becomes a constant anxiety of you are moving too much, you are losing your buff

[tardy turtle]

White women?

[dusk jacinth]

bro mad cause he bad at warframe

how u bad at warframe........

[muted knot]

no

[white minnow]

to this, I'd say that there's another keystone suited for this playstyle

[glacial ermine]

durability. why would i ever use a shotgun when plasma exists? knife/power sword already mulches in melee, neither needs the extra crit

[ebon drum]

@white minnow https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/s/tj5VlvWjwN

[south garnet]

I think you two settled this for me, I don't want to play any game for people who have sex

gross

[dusk jacinth]

https://tenor.com/view/live-reaction-rhino-warframe-reapercord-kings-dark-tidings-saga-by-kel-kade-gif-27294051

[trim steppe]

Mission just crashed to desktop with no rejoin available. Did all 4 of us get booted or is the rejoin just bugged?

[crisp orchid]

i wouldn't mind the whole not moving thing if i wasn't obligated to take deadshot as well. having 0 stamina while also being comparably immobile to everyone else is pretty silly.

[grim dawn]

huh

[swift ingot]

Middle keystone is so much fun

[fast heart]

I am finally free

[ebon drum]

Left is as well

[grim dawn]

this is a warframe take over tenno rise up

[untold mulch]

I forgot it was 10% reload at max stacks lmao barely notices

[ebon drum]

All the keystones on vet are fine

[fading anvil]

Giving Vet a talent to regain stamina on kill would be sick tbh

[dusk jacinth]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-gaming-dance-nidus-sway-gif-3451015501683339842

[ebon drum]

There needs to be less point bloat tho

[hearty panther]

So far my only complaint is that precision could really use a visual to indicate you're in a movement grace period.

[dusk idol]

just restore stam recov on dodge to all attacks

[bleak tendon]

ik you guys are in pain but how is the marksman keystone and the tagging one?

[south garnet]

they should reverse the tree and put the keystones and all the tax nodes right at the top so you're forced to spend at least 25 to get into basic survivability and utility nodes

[radiant chasm]

both good, marksman just requires some skill and reading

[dusk idol]

wiggles

[swift ingot]

Now calling Squad Leader the love child of Mercenary Kruber and Witch Hunter Captain is 100% accurate

[grim dawn]

i do a modding the day i finsh i go to sleep i wake up my tree is reset . PAIN

[naive hatch]

I really dislike the new tree.

[fading anvil]

Tagging is nice enough, doesn't completely change how things work and just gives you a decent buff. Marksman is just kinda really underwhelming and kinda wierd

[obtuse dawn]

How is your Dclaw doing so much damage to those big bois

[livid relic]

It should unironically be 3% per stack, at least.

[tardy turtle]

pretty decent. everyone is just malding that they have to give up other good nodes to get to them. Which is fair, vet has so many goodies spread around the tree

[dusk idol]

I don’t mind it, it’s hard to build vet like pre-15, he feels a little squishier with his toughness regen being nerfed

[viscid marlin]

For anyone that cares, this has so far been the most success ive had with auto's that arent going into exe stance.

[dusk idol]

other than that

he feels mostly normal to me

[untold mulch]

Idk the number to fix it, I just know that at 10 stacks I DIDN'T NOTICE

[kind scarab]

Cran is gone my man

But if you want an answer, handcannon on the revolver.

[obtuse dawn]

Ooooooh

[devout atlas]

I'll give it a shot ,ty

[obtuse dawn]

So a bug

[elfin fable]

thoughts on the new keystones?

[midnight wing]

i rather like the right side keystone

that and the 1 that auto loads your pistol

[hearty panther]

Spotting keystone is effective but boring.

[swift ingot]

Middle Keystone is awesome

[midnight wing]

makes revolver + chain sword good

[white minnow]

also, this is just a general problem in the game in general where you can just spray and pray. On quite a few guns, you don't really get punished for wasting ammo. The reload speeds aren't that long and there are ways to get around that. I don't see why the punishment for being inaccurate and wasting ammo has to be enforced by the keystone.

[obtuse dawn]

Shame, I like the Dclaw but if it needs a bug to work I'll pass

[swift ingot]

It ain’t much, but it’s honest work

[devout atlas]

What do you run on this? Triple Stam?

[fading anvil]

Right side is pretty slick just suffers more from the issue the whole tree has where you need to spend way to many points to get it let alone mix it with other parts of the tree

[elfin fable]

is the marksman one for standing still as bad as people been saying?

the middle was what i was interested in the most

[kind scarab]

Not a bug, but setup for getting the result you want

[hearty panther]

It's much better than people complain about.

[dusk idol]

it does not require a bug, you simply need another tool to deal with chonk

[hearty panther]

If you can land headshots at all you are barely penalized.

[obtuse dawn]

Hand cannon blessing applying to the melee is for sure a bug

[stone birch]

the left side is good if you can hit heads at all consistently. The mark target is great for dealing with bosses, and ive yet to use the right side stealthy one.

[midnight wing]

it kinda isnt that bad but the problem is you feel like you arent really using it as much because moving is needed

[elfin fable]

idk standing still during auric or auric mael seems...

[elfin fable]

yea literally

[obtuse dawn]

They are getting rending on crits from a bug

[hearty panther]

Exactly, don't lol

[livid relic]

Spray and pray is a problem, but having a keystone that encourages you to actually aim for increased effectiveness is a bad thing?

[white minnow]

you don't NEED to stand still

[swift ingot]

This is the setup I’ve been running for vet as of late

[livid relic]

BRo what

[midnight wing]

head shots make the buff stock for 3 seconds

[viscid marlin]

2 stam 1 other, be it a wound or toughness but you could run 3 stam and just be squishier

[midnight wing]

but it just feels bad to use

[white minnow]

you are interpreting it in the worst way possible

[midnight wing]

it works fine

[dusk idol]

yeah ik, just don’t use the bug, the claw still holds up somewhat decent

[white minnow]

I'm saying that the game doesn't punish you for wasting ammo in general had enough

[livid relic]

That is the logical terminus of what you said, though??

[untold mulch]

Yep, it makes you way too aware of if you want to move or not

[minor brook]

capstone seems trash im still not running em

[elfin fable]

similar to what i was testing before. how does it hold with bolter? kinda the main weapon ive liked tbh

[fading anvil]

The marksman keystone works way better with spray n pray lmao

[tall torrent]

Middle keystone is my way to hard cope with the loss of 15% elite dmg and nerfed confirmed kill

[white minnow]

how?

[glacial ermine]

its pretty bad. Works alright with full auto weapons ironically enough cause you can just hose down a horde and get full stacks.

[muted knot]

Does it work now ??

[hearty panther]

If it's a question of maintaining a damage buff or getting killed, then move. But you'll be surprised how easy it is to build the stacks back up and how often you'll be in a grace period for no movement loss IF you have any capacity for headshots.

[fast heart]

yes

[swift ingot]

Same

[glacial ermine]

On stuff like headhunter autogun? lmao forget about it

[white minnow]

all I said was that the game should punish you harder for wasting ammo

[midnight wing]

i really like the far right one

[livid relic]

Because you said that the game doesn't punish you for being inaccurate, so having a mechanic that DOES is a bad thing somehow.

An OPTIONAL mechanic at that

[tall torrent]

I’m running this rn
Shovel + plasma gun

[midnight wing]

you just have perm buffs for playing the game normally

[livid relic]

Like just don't spec into the marksman keystone then??

[swift ingot]

I personally run it with Laspistol, you’ll have to see if it works well with Bolter

[white minnow]

I said that the responsibility shouldn't be taken by marksman

[livid relic]

MARKSMAN.

[glacial ermine]

besides, what you need right now is more durability, not damage.

[livid relic]

SHOOT GOOD

[white minnow]

but that the game punish you harder with slower reloads/lower mag sizes

[dusk jacinth]

chat give me gun build with the new focus ability

[devout atlas]

Is Longshot as good as it seems?

[dusk idol]

it’s pretty decent

[dusk jacinth]

https://tenor.com/view/horse-horse-react-thanos-meme-gif-26303208

[swift ingot]

Taking this for when I get a good plasma gun, what does that look like btw?

[tall torrent]

It’s alright on autoguns if you want more consistent dmg due to their falloff

[hearty panther]

Longshot got changed and is much better now. The damage bonus kicks in sooner and peaks sooner as well.

[devout atlas]

Painful because I have to choose between Close Order Drill or Longshot on this build

[tall torrent]

Blaze away + gets hot

[white minnow]

seems like you're not a fan of interpreting what I'm say in an honest manner at all

[frank ether]

no you miss the point, this is a keystone specificly made for marksman weapons and it works worse with marksman weapons than it does with the zero IQ weapons people use to spray at chaff with

[tawny badger]

hi #veteran-class how's it going
I sure hope everyone likes the reworked talent tree

[swift ingot]

Appreciated

[dusk idol]

we love it thank you

[devout atlas]

I think I will just drop the 25% extra ammo

[livid relic]

I think I'm genuinely just misunderstanding you. How about you explain your position in more words so I can understand?

[swift ingot]

perks?

[dusk jacinth]

no

[fading anvil]

I do like my new never ending grenades build but it sadly can't make use of any of the keystones

[dusk jacinth]

fuck dis skill tree

[worthy pelican]

real

[white minnow]

it works fine because there's a 1 second threshold to main stacks on weakspot hits and a 3 second window where your stacks are maintained on a weakspot kill

[tall torrent]

I’m not entirely sure but I rolled 25 maniac and I put 25 flak on there

[white minnow]

just fucking hit things with a vraks 7

[swift ingot]

Figured it’d be the usual, thank you pal

[frank ether]

ugh

sure

waste of my breath honestly

[white minnow]

I really do not think it's that hard

[frank ether]

why am I even talking

just grab an iag

shoot

[hearty panther]

It's really not that hard lol

[white minnow]

the vraks isn't an IAG

[livid relic]

But this means fuck-all because the best way to build stacks with the marksman keystone is still to just open up with an autogun at head-level

[sterile brook]

А русские есть?

[midnight wing]

literally just hit heads

[livid relic]

Fuck accuracy, right?

[midnight wing]

lol

[white minnow]

i mean you're getting punished by having less ammo overall

[frank ether]

it also holds like 20 something bullets, ciag holds 60, runs faster, is immune to ranged damage while sprinting.

[white minnow]

you'll have to reload more often and whatnot

[livid relic]

[frank ether]

I'll smoke you while you do your sniper larping

[white minnow]

and for a weapon that gets ~2x damage on ehadshot, it is a considerable loss in ammo efficiency

[midnight wing]

lol

[worthy pelican]

no you dont understand, the existance of an auto gun means that i cant aim for the head

[frank ether]

but yes you can sit and shoot chaff with your vraks

[white minnow]

that's just the nature of on-kill things

[idle carbon]

I take it the veteran rework has a lot of people disappointed?

[midnight wing]

bottom left isnt as good as bottom middle for that keystone imo.

[fading anvil]

Underwhelmed is how I'd put it

[hearty panther]

All changes tend to bring out the cope.

[dusk idol]

what no definitely not

[livid relic]

I just want a flexible fucking tree man

[stone birch]

for no real goodreason, yes Crash

[naive hatch]

highly

[dusk idol]

we’re all very satisfied

[golden axle]

lets not blanket statement

[white minnow]

the tree has a bit too many nodes

[celest vine]

1 game on the new map and i got this far

[untold mulch]

Depends on people

Some are malding, others are saying is perfectly fine

I personally am slightly malding

[tawny kraken]

I just saw a grenade fly past me like it was a assail spike

[dusk idol]

extremely satisfied even

[celest vine]

Holy shit

So good

[fading anvil]

Think the vet tree has like 99 nodes lmao

[tawny kraken]

the targeting on these are nuts

[white minnow]

I like the keystones but I the tree does need some work

[tall torrent]

• Strong nodes scattered across the tree (no longer concentrated in middle)
• Takes 20~21 points to reach keystone
• Marksman keystone is underwhelming and restrictive

[untold mulch]

We get taxed af

[dark flower]

i genuinely think the people complaining haven't actually tried some funny builds yet