quants-n-traders

[zenith panther]

🥱

ppl simp research too hard

and simp quant

and simp swe

peak outcome is doctor

and private practice

dermatology and plastic surgery

private practice

[rotund glacier]

agree

[zenith panther]

are unironically peak outcomes

[rotund glacier]

rev I just gotta tell you you gotta like take your ego down a notch

you have good internships but you're not all that

like stripe/apple whatever is good but it's not like cream of the crop

so you go here and ego and like what for

yeah but this "shitting on me" isn't the own you think it is

it just comes off as incredible ego cringe

I - don't think that's true

@primal shell do you think I'm a shitter 🥺

also @primal shell respond to my dms wtf

[late bear]

drexel gaps 🥱

[zenith panther]

ik i dont want to be a swe

but i like cs

💀

i dont enjoy my work

but i enjoy my personal work

[rotund glacier]

we should kiss

[zenith panther]

if n3 and rev had a startup itd be a unicorn driven by the fact neither wants to be outdone by the other

in contributions

nah ur ego comes from tech tho

damn im frank ocean fr

see on both sides like chanel or smth like that

😎

[tender zodiac]

goku can be the secretary

[zenith panther]

i mean

ekzhang

did quant

its just a place to meet ppl

and learn

rev ur at db next yr?

ok

[scenic bison]

[sweet cargo]

🙇‍♀️

[scenic bison]

Getting closer

[zenith panther]

i wish i was more prestigious

[scenic bison]

Real

[sweet cargo]

soon

[zenith panther]

how to work 90 hours a week

guys i am craving a patagonia fleece

is patagonia prestigious

or a pooron brand

for finance wagies

[tender zodiac]

oncology>>>>

[shadow estuary]

top research/top startup outcomes r def better than quant if ur a swe. idek how this can be debated

[zenith panther]

i didn't mean to send that lmfao

but fav gif

[sweet cargo]

🤣

[zenith panther]

i need to increase my trajectory

muh derivative

yeah, it's called prestige

[shadow estuary]

youre not even the profit center within the company...if u rlly see quant as a peak why not try for qt or qr

[rose holly]

i want to get a qswe offer just so i can turn it down tbh

[shadow estuary]

The best heuristic for a career is where ur role has the largest impact and u work with the best talent

this is simply not true for swe @ quant

[zenith panther]

benjamin qi was a qswe

therefore

qswe is prestigious

he doing QR now

https://tenor.com/view/sparkles-and-lily-dog-dance-barbie-barbie-dog-gif-24735879

[tender zodiac]

he also made bezos a bit richer too

[zenith panther]

https://tenor.com/view/me-asf-gif-26344293

[last herald]

TRUE

all my homies take imc over apple research and msr

[zenith panther]

and ppl take citadel over imc

bcz

citadel is the best company of all time

citagoat

when did i become a citadel simp

💀

[last herald]

results vary

[zenith panther]

ppl take imc over jump too

the point is

true

[thin bramble]

[thin bramble]

Is Qswe even worth it compared to tech firms

[livid wedge]

they pay a lot more and have mostly better growth and the work is interesting

[thin bramble]

Yes maybe its worth it

[brave vessel]

realest question

what would be an alternative to qswe in tech tho? like i feel like the work u do in qswe is pretty specialized systems level stuff

[livid wedge]

that’s not necessarily true it depends on the type of qswe

for example most citadel swes outside of gqs aren’t doing systems

[brave vessel]

what are they doing

webdev lol?

[rose holly]

500k tc react dev

[thin bramble]

Most citadel outside of gqs isn't Quant/HFT

[livid wedge]

yea ik

but people refer to citadel swe as quant swe

and a lot of the time they aren’t talking about gqs

also Ik optiver Chicago a lot of the swes are dashboard devs

[thin bramble]

pnl link \approx 0

[winged aurora]

Traditionally quant dev are the ones that implement trading strats and tools/tech more related to strats that's why it's beneficial to have financial knowledge

But maybe in HFT it's not as clearly segregated

[livid wedge]

idk if that’s true

actually Ik that’s not true

it plateaus much higher than tech

esp at HFTs where tech matters a lot

[runic schooner]

fair given very few reach top leadership in tech

[livid wedge]

i know of optiver devs in austin pulling in 8 figures lol

[runic schooner]

wait wtf

i thought swe hardly breaks 1mil if even at all

[livid wedge]

that’s def not true

at firms like JS cit opt ik of people above that mark

8 figures is an extreme

but low 7 figures is def achievable

i mean were they early career

[runic schooner]

like 3-6 years

[livid wedge]

Ik one guy making 800 4-5 years out

[runic schooner]

yea

but 8 figures lol how do u get that much pnl contribution as a dev

[livid wedge]

idk too much about citsec tho

idk any 8 figures at citsec

that was specific to optiver hft lol

but yea idk man I always heard swe can hit low 7 figures

[ashen dove]

Are quant swes making that much cuz they are CS gods and insanely smart? Or are they working crazy hours

Or both

[livid wedge]

compared to tech?

[ashen dove]

Yeah, wondering why the pay is so high

[livid wedge]

i think the average quant swe is smarter

[wind mulch]

Is it common for people to go from FAANG to quant or not really

[shadow estuary]

fwiw this isnt the highest bar

the amount of people making 1m+ as an ic in tech is far more than quant

thats just like high e6/low e7 at meta

[livid wedge]

true but I think it’s harder to hit that level in texh

cuz of the whole levels system

startups r j less ev tho

i think quant for like 10 years then startup

[ashen dove]

What’s ur experience with quant? Just curious

[livid wedge]

i interned last summer at cubist and will be interning this summer at citsec

have interviewed and/or talked to people from almost every well known shop lol

[ashen dove]

So point72?

[livid wedge]

cubist != point72 but yea sure

idk optiver marbles seem op

[ashen dove]

@livid wedge what year are you

[livid wedge]

junior

[ashen dove]

Nice

Isn’t citsec 4k a week for interns

So like 100/hour

[livid wedge]

yep but the swe sign on is fked

for swe?

yea makes sense

swe is 5k sign on

honestly I’m thinking about grinding QR cuz q swe might not be the way

[ashen dove]

@blissful kite did u accept citsec? Or you got an even better one

Wdym

[livid wedge]

low return offer rates

[ashen dove]

Hmm, why not take the internship for money and resume experience?

Ah ok

[livid wedge]

what happens if u don’t wanna recruit again and chill lol

[ashen dove]

That’s true

What’s the highest per week y’all have ever seen for an internship

Quant or non quant

[livid wedge]

radix is insane I think

[ashen dove]

More than 5k/week?

[livid wedge]

but they take only 4 people lol for swe

i think radix might be 90ishk total for the entire internship lmao

i don’t know the exact numbers but the recruiter told me they would beat citsec easily

[ashen dove]

10 week or 12 week internship

[livid wedge]

really

i don’t remember sorry

[ashen dove]

No worries

[livid wedge]

i blocked the trauma from that interview

[ashen dove]

But damn for 3 months these interns getting paid more than most ppl in a year

[livid wedge]

yea maybe gqs

but like radix I think is 100 percent ro

[ashen dove]

Are you some CS god? Curious how smart you are since you are getting quant offers

[livid wedge]

yea it’s insane

[ashen dove]

Nah u are cracked I know

How long u been coding

Nice, I assume you are quite good with C++ then

Quant stuff

[livid wedge]

for trading u don’t need that

[ashen dove]

Ah ok I’m thinking SWE vs trader

Not the same

[livid wedge]

so is q swe outcomes really not that amazing

I’m tryna decide if I wanna grind for qr or not lol

[ashen dove]

There’s QR, Trader, and SWE right? In terms of quant roles

Ah ok lmao

I’m assuming optiver is cracked? One of my friends at a T5 CS school got a quant trader internship there for S24

Not SWE tho…

[livid wedge]

i think they’re equal if ur in Austin

[deep cargo]

Why would the loc matter?

[azure zenith]

In some areas yes, in others no, depends what you're trying to maximise

Shorter term EV for pay is better no doubt

Most traders take a break after 3-4 years to do other stuff I heard

[tulip sapphire]

nah ik people who went from swe to qr

[thin bramble]

how exactly

[livid wedge]

optiver austin u get work on the hft teams delta one trading

they might also have Chicago people as well

[wintry tendon]

iirc one of my interviewers was like the equities team lead and he was in chicago

[slender bluff]

they explicitly say they'll only reach back to you if they're interested in continuing, so assume ghost yea

[obtuse flame]

Yeah got the reject

[livid wedge]

from what I’ve heard yea

I mean u have more impact cuz tech matters a lot in hft since it’s winner takes all and the strats aren’t super complex

whereas if ur on a team that makes tools u def have less impact than the guy using the tools

[thin bramble]

Is there a 8 fig qswe

Proof?

[restive cloak]

Anyone know at HRT how core C++ SWE compares to Algo Eng (not algo dev, which is like quant basically)? Is core paid more, are algo eng second class citizens or..?

[livid wedge]

one of my friends who works in optiver austin gave me a number of some other guy who was in the 8 figures based on his marble count lol

also like the quant swes that become like cto or head of a major group bring in 8 figures

[thin bramble]

Based on this how large is the pay gap between qswe and quant/traders

[thin bramble]

Why would any firm do that

[tulip sapphire]

[tulip sapphire]

at that pt they r no longer qswe lol

[thin bramble]

[harsh reef]

anyone doing/did peak6 trading intern process?

[signal heart]

did the bootcamp this may not the internship tho

[brisk trellis]

did they have to get a graduate degree?

and was it an internal transition from swe to qr?

[tulip sapphire]

no

[tulip sapphire]

no

[azure zenith]

yup, there's one swe somewhere around there in amsterdam too

i don't know about figure count but his marble level is absolutely crazy

I think he is a level 8 (?) dev, you start at level 3 and marble count doubles each promotion

you have to account for what the marble value is doing though

like over covid it was something like double the years before

[severe talon]

didn't know optiver had formal levels

[azure zenith]

Oh yeah, everyone (swe & trading) are on the level system

[severe talon]

is it similar to big tech in terms of l3 junior, l4 midlevel, l5 senior, etc.?

[azure zenith]

Swe start at level 3

[severe talon]

interesting, we don't have that at all

[azure zenith]

kind of, but the benefits are more strictly defined and "open"

I.e every level 3 has the same amount of marbles iirc

So more open with regards to knowing what others are getting

level up = double marbles

[severe talon]

so it's marbles + a personal performance bonus?

[azure zenith]

Your total marbles value is multiplied by your individual performance multiplier, which can be 0.5-2x

Average is 1 or 1.25x I think

And at least in Amsterdam the base is uniform for all

A marble is a unit of global profit

This I'm not entirely sure on. I've heard people say there is, but I faintly recall them telling us there isn't one and that it's just the base that changes or something

or maybe they're phasing it out(?)

[severe talon]

interesting

[azure zenith]

They really aren't that far off when you factor in COL and the tax benefits that Amsterdam has (which are getting a bit worse now sadly)

Yeah, it was surprising to have little taboo talking about it with people

This is not correct

though of course it's subject to performance, but the average is higher than that

This is dependent on negotiation and afaik it's the signing bonus causing that

mid 200s

not 400 though sure

no, incl.

changes per year

and I can't say mine

but it does feel the us sign ons are higher

don't know ^

[thin bramble]

Think Op standard ng tc in europe = 75k base 75k bonus 50k signon

[azure zenith]

Nah, every number here is incorrect

all higher except sign on which is lower

bonus is variable pay (fixed value in place of marbles for first yr that is multiplied by performance multiplier)

[thin bramble]

Maybe it's increased now

[supple shoal]

what are marbles/why do they indicate an increase in tc?

[thin bramble]

each marble is a share of optiver profit of the year, worth ~2k

[reef harness]

Is sig discovery day oa auto?

[opal helm]

Im confused how Comp Sci relates to quant, could someone explain

Is not a Mathematics/Statistics background what would be looked for?

[zenith panther]

prestige

[wintry tendon]

yea it is but coding is important too

[hallow shoal]

I’m pretty sure optiver ng SWE Chicago is standard. Isn’t it 175 base 100 bonus Ev and 50 sign on pulling to 325 tc?

[signal bloom]

prolly not

[wintry tendon]

nah im p sure it is

sig normal oa is auto and was auto last yr

oh word mb

[thin bramble]

prestige is all you need

[signal bloom]

How long should is the wait time to hear from js phone interview Qt intern?

[wintry tendon]

I feel like flying isn’t very fun

It’s just like -6 hours

Like being taxed

[thin bramble]

For vacation just stay in hotel the entire time

Eat buffet food and swim

[azure zenith]

Don't know about Chicago, it was talking about europe

[broken thorn]

how to find expected difference from mean in coin flips ?

like i flip n coins, whats the expected number of excess heads or tail

100 coin 60 heads is 10, but 60 tails is also 10

[restive cloak]

which quant firms ask for transcripts

i heard citadel does?

[gloomy flicker]

I'm not sure if I understand the question, but isn't that just subtracting the expected value from the observed value?

[rose holly]

who still hiring?

[upbeat forum]

Lets go

Ken Griffin wants to buy part of the Dolphins

[wintry tendon]

variance

[thin bramble]

variance is expected of square difference

how do you get expected difference

No

Its expected abs difference

[broken thorn]

what im looking for will rarely be 0, its like Expected num excess heads + expected num excess tails

[broken thorn]

tjat sounds right

[thin bramble]

I think you could try to work with C_100_i * (i-50)

[quasi orbit]

did u get cit?

isnt that good

o

[thin bramble]

strange

[wintry tendon]

assume normal so its just mean absolute error of normal distribution its just like sigma*sqrt(2/pi)

[tacit bridge]

probability is pretty integral within cs

[rose holly]

didn’t u sign Optiver

[opal helm]

why would top companies hire cs over math tho

[wintry tendon]

because cs includes programming and analytical thinking which are two of the most important skills people look for

[vocal drift]

what are the differences between micro internships and regular internships

[cloud sierra]

math is still more relevant

[opal helm]

I dont see how ur getting into a top quant company with a cs degree tbh, I dont know that much tho

swe ye, but that isnt quant

quant researcher needs more cs background but u need a beefy phd

do quant swe make more than FAANG?

or only the traders/researchers

[thin bramble]

if you can't make it in with a cs degree, you can't make it in with any degree

[vague sentinel]

generally yes

[thin bramble]

I know plenty of friends who get QR internships and full times with a cs bachelors

[brave vessel]

Yes buy I heard the growth potential was worse and hours were worse

[vague sentinel]

obviously depends on place

[opal helm]

?

QR full time with a cs bachelors

how

• what company

[wintry tendon]

Cs is by far the most popular undergrad major for qr at like every company idk

[opal helm]

QR are doing novel research + reading papers etc, how are they doing that at a top company with a cs undergrad

[shadow estuary]

math and physics are prob better for qr, i think cs people are just more interested in the industry/money

[opal helm]

qr seems to require skill in programming/ data science, machine learning, research (ie publication history etc)

[wintry tendon]

If your a pure math major you just learn like algebraic topology idk

Like you just need data rsh programming stat skills

[vague sentinel]

Cs majors can definitely do relevant research what

[opal helm]

How, they will usually have very little research experience and are unlikely to have a publication history etc

[vague sentinel]

?

Why

[wintry tendon]

Just not true lol

[opal helm]

smth like double major in applied mathematics and statistics with a minor in a computer science

[wintry tendon]

Yeah I mean that sounds like a good combo

[shadow estuary]

the programming part of qr is not the main signal

[opal helm]

because undergrads have limited research experience

[shadow estuary]

its pretty easy to learn

[opal helm]

programming seems to only matter for quant swe, which isnt really quant

[upbeat forum]

It matters for every quant position in varying levels

At most firms

[wintry tendon]

True but cs isn’t just programming

[opal helm]

I still dont see how an undergrad cs is getting qr full time

Unless I misunderstand what quant researcher is

[wintry tendon]

You just have a misunderstanding of what a cs undergrad entails

[shadow estuary]

the same way there are cases of undergrad cs ppl becoming research scientists

[opal helm]

bruh im doing one

[shadow estuary]

you can publish, do higher level coursework, etc

[opal helm]

?

"plenty of friends becoming qr full time from undergad cs"

[shadow estuary]

yeah im not sure what the confusion is

[opal helm]

why would the company not just hire a PhD

[shadow estuary]

they interview lots and hire the people that pass the bar

[opal helm]

quant swe or quant trader sure, undergrad, but why would a top company hire "lots of cs undergrads" for a research position as opposed to PhDs?

[wintry tendon]

Because you miss out on a large subset of the population who is very smart but doesn’t want to do a phd

Like Ben qi or something

[thin bramble]

My examples all have IOI gold, and they do have publication in theoretical computer science / math, etc

There are undergrads whose publication is stronger than people graduating from a theory PhD

[opal helm]

damn

u have plently of IOI gold friends?

where do u study

[thin bramble]

I used to do some competitive programming so I know some people who do that

[opal helm]

fair enough

[thin bramble]

There is an undergrad in China who get admitted into Berkeley for a theory CS phd

and didn't get visa for a year

then joined citsec hk and quit phd

[livid wedge]

u clearly don’t know anything

cs is a pretty popular choice for QTs

also several top firms recruit qrs out of undergrad lol

[rose holly]

why would they do that

[livid wedge]

because if an undergrad is cracked why wouldn’t they lol

[thin bramble]

Question is why wouldn't they

I know very top undergrad got DE Shaw HRT Jane Street and CitSec QR internship in junior year

[livid wedge]

yea and that’s not a rare case lol

[glass barn]

u got phone? they told me they were full fffff

[glass barn]

rip gl

[sweet cargo]

citadel a tier is a joke it should be S+ tier

joever

[sweet cargo]

absolutely fuckin disgusting dude

[rose holly]

why are you glazing quant companies

[sweet cargo]

i love citadel

[zenith panther]

because citadel > js

...

[vague sentinel]

Where is this even polled from

I suspect most of the population doesn't know Quant companies

[zenith panther]

or you dont know it and are a fool

best company int he world

[azure zenith]

lmao

i worked with a quant trader intern that was literally doing medicine

[severe talon]

we also had one of those

[opal helm]

Damn bruh I said I don't know that much

Hop off my willy

[potent dome]

Specific to firm

You guys think doing distributed systems at Cisco next summer will be better than regular swe at insurance for quant swe

[terse barn]

yea that shit was light as fuck

don’t bother prepping it it’s lc med or easy

nah skipped that one

actually wait

i did it after the first tech

[obtuse flame]

Yeah

[potent dome]

Reason?

[terse barn]

easy lol

[azure zenith]

effectively always technical interviews

for a "final onsite day"

they might invite you to the office to chat to them, that's different

but onsites are often just a good way to cram interviews in a short period of time

[potent dome]

Yeah what you need

[sweet cargo]

https://tenor.com/view/itachi-gif-26089253

Yeah, what you need.

[thin bramble]

Such a mistake I didn't do AI before

Should've did AI all the time

[sweet cargo]

just start rn

[opal helm]

i luh mony

[analog ravine]

im kinda new to this area, but i saw some ppl who have done bootcamps at quant firms and wanted to know if there was like a list/where to find them

[broken thorn]

those people arent real, they already had a physics phd or something like that

raw bootcamp->quant firm is not feasible

[azure zenith]

Yeah I think you're referring to traineeships, which are just what any younger new hires go through

[rose holly]

how do i get into quant?

any quant new grads still hiring?

[haughty hinge]

lol

[eternal iron]

Anyone know what the first round technical questions for Hrt Algo dev are this season?

[twin verge]

congrats on cit!

[opal helm]

Anyone know any resources explaining high touch vs low touch companies

I'm guessing low touch mostly hire PhDs and the high touch hire the cracked new grads from target schools

[cerulean hare]

you could say he........STOOD ON BIDNESS

[brave vessel]

maybe this entire thing was a marketing ploy for their next project

if real maybe they did something like, only taught the ai basic axioms than it was able to solve more complex problems implying it has some logic and ability to improve this logic

i wonder what code gen is... 😦 we are so fucked

[stark fulcrum]

Does new grad mean fresh out of college, or can someone apply one year later?

[weary nacelle]

Can I get quant with discord bot, weather app and calculator project

[deep cargo]

Add tic tac toe and ur good

[zenith panther]

definitely

[weary nacelle]

Appreciate yall for the good looks 🙏🏽

[scenic bison]

Depends on the company check the job descriptions but most places will let you apply if you graduated the year prior

[hazy hawk]

Is js FPGA resume screen hard? (Was alr rejected lol)

[short crater]

is this after references?

[short crater]

for me all 5 rounds are a mix of behavioral+technical

prolly heavily team/manager dependent tho

[short crater]

yes resume + sys design, no math/coding for me

also I'm systems

ymmv for swe

[vague sentinel]

Be passionate abt something specific

[hallow shoal]

Does anybody know millennium and virtu ng tc? In ny. Levels doesn’t seem to have updated numbers

[twin verge]

swe or trader? for SWE, millenium is team dependent, heard like mid 200s up to much higher, virtu is decent, mid-high 300s fy?

@hallow shoal

[hallow shoal]

Ah gotchu yeh sorry devs

Thanks for the insight

[tulip sapphire]

i usually said sth like "working with smart people, academic culture of the firm, friends who have worked there who have said good things abt the culture, and how the firm would be a great place for me to succeed at"

that's already implied, but why that place specifically? why not one of their competitors? these firms love an ego boost saying you'd choose them over their competitors, even more so if you have an offer from their competitors

if you phrase stuff the right way you can even get a lower bar for offer 💀

[tulip sapphire]

Headlands head of qr told me quants give more positive social impact than PhDs

[thin bramble]

I think this depends on the strategy you run

[tulip sapphire]

and then they can donate some pocket change to some public schools and have done more good than the govnt which just spends money on killing people!

so + impact to society

[thin bramble]

Is this actually wrong

I don't think this impacts what happens in Israel in any way

[twin verge]

smartest ea

[tulip sapphire]

Bobby Axelrod moment 💀

[uncut steeple]

i'm gonna use this

[storm ember]

anyone know what codesignal ICFs are like? ive never done one before but i just got one from anthropic

Cool. i learned about this thing called "test driven development" last week and was practicing with that

is there like. automated tests or something, do they give me a tests file

right. so just keep iterating until i have parsed code but failed tests, then write more til they pass the tests

thanks!

[thin bramble]

I do think quants have a large social impact

*positive

The value may not be obvious in one trade but when you trade a very large volume the value could accumulate and scale

[slender bluff]

closer to 200k

friend got base 150k and 55k bonux, as RO

but didn't like culture so took Bloomberg instead

i think he said not rlly just cause of flat structure, makes it hard to level

everything is very political at MM, devs dont get treated well

so it seems big tech def gaps MM

[quasi orbit]

This is false

or at least not what u should’ve gotten this year

is possible but this year all teams in equities tech should follow the same range

[quasi orbit]

dm

[shy tide]

is janestreet final offer on the spot ?

TDO

like at the office?

[upbeat forum]

didnt they fill up?

[upbeat forum]

My recruiter said they filled up a week ago lol

Ur back

[midnight scroll]

Any idea if OMC would blacklist for something silly like this lol? I haven't touched the OA but might open it up for practice (Am totally unqualified)

[signal bloom]

I just submitted my assessment yesterday 💀

[regal sorrel]

yea they aren't moving on with anyone else

[spark seal]

how did u guys pass QR intern interview 🙏

[wintry tendon]

We didn’t

[spark seal]

[quasi orbit]

i just had a cit interview and the dude was shitting on me and shitting on cit the entire time

[shy tide]

If recruiter wants to call me for 15 mins after janestreet final is that offer?

[quasi orbit]

why r u tryna move into citadel from ____? citadel isnt that cutting edge

[shy tide]

Is this offer or nah after jane final?

Yes

[quasi orbit]

yea but obviously i cant say that

[shy tide]

How come if TDO?

[quasi orbit]

and he was like 'tell me about your business impact at ____

and im like idk bro i just do what im told

its those old dudes

[shy tide]

okay tyysm

[full ridge]

does anyone know how long it takes to hear back from jane street after phone? for swe

[deep cargo]

Fr, they just there to flex on u

[twin verge]

"no ro"

[thin bramble]

Congrats on JS

[thin bramble]

In general is it possible to get in JS full time next year if failed intern onsite this year?

[cyan shoal]

swe or qt?

[thin bramble]

Is there a difference

[cyan shoal]

typically ive seen people have more success with swe but then again ive seen a lot more people get qt final

then swe final

[full ridge]

what if you failed swe phone

still waiting to hear back

but is there any fail swe intern phone -> still reinterviewed for new grad

[cyan shoal]

tbh no idea but u can get around grey/blacklist at js by just using diff email and changing up resume slightly

wont be able to get an expedite

but u can re-interview

know plenty of people who have

[full ridge]

i mean that doesnt confirm getting around

maybe they know who they are and reinterviewed anyway

most companies are resillient to changing email tbh

[cyan shoal]

yea tbh they changed a lot more than email

[full ridge]

also do u know how long it takes to hear back usually?

[cyan shoal]

but like ill just say this much

[full ridge]

after phone

[cyan shoal]

ive had someone ik

who applied everything with same email one week

got rejected

created new email

changed up resume

and applied again

in the same year

like 1 week later

[full ridge]

depends what "changed up resume" means tho

[cyan shoal]

and got interview

[cyan shoal]

not content

[full ridge]

if its like a complete overhaul maybe

[cyan shoal]

i was there with him lol

[full ridge]

oh

[cyan shoal]

like removed linkedin

phone number

address

just those things

didnt change content at all

[full ridge]

hm

thats not much change

[cyan shoal]

hmm yea idk maybe he just got lucky

[shadow estuary]

i mean real q is has anyone gotten an offer doing that

[full ridge]

still feel like they might record based on name but maybe not

[cyan shoal]

but idk thats just my anecdotal experience

[shadow estuary]

like every step of the way they can figure it out

[cyan shoal]

idt its that deep tbh

ik plenty of people

[full ridge]

do you think you need perfection to pass phone

not sure if there was more questions

[cyan shoal]

who theyve knowingly re-interviewed lol

[full ridge]

no way to know

[shadow estuary]

Phones usually light

[full ridge]

yeah i heard as long as you get new experience

like new internships

[cyan shoal]

friend got final same day as phone

[full ridge]

hmm

[shadow estuary]

I dont think i did perfect but passed anyways

[full ridge]

oh ok good to know

i did mine yesterday end of day

[cyan shoal]

i say they knowingly re-interviewed because the person reached out to their old recruiter

told thme

they had previous final

with js

the year before

[full ridge]

ahh

[cyan shoal]

and asked for expedite

so

that they definitely knew lol

[full ridge]

ok i may try that for new grad

if i get rej

[cyan shoal]

but not 100% success rate

[full ridge]

couldnt hurt

[cyan shoal]

some people were turned down

[full ridge]

anyway

[shadow estuary]

Ye they obv reinterview but i think its not that simple

[full ridge]

if i dont get new grad or intern, im never getting js LOL

[shadow estuary]

Its smth like one or two better firms since then

[full ridge]

industry hire is rope

[cyan shoal]

yea i fumbled js qt late stage this year for intern

might try intern again next year

or angle for swe instea

instead

[full ridge]

when do u grad

i grad 2025 so like

its only 1 intern and 1 new grad chance

[cyan shoal]

ehh i can adjust grad according to jobs

i can pick up/drop masters and do whatever i need to based on whatevers better career wise

[full ridge]

hmm

for one company idk if thats reasonable

like a company that might not accept you anyway

[cyan shoal]

lol its pretty simple

i dont do it

[full ridge]

like isnt picking up a masters just because an interview

[cyan shoal]

till i get the offer

[full ridge]

kinda odd

oh ok

yeah that makes sense

[cyan shoal]

i dont have to pick it up just cause an interview lol

if they give offfer

ill do masters

[full ridge]

so u would just write masters on resume

[cyan shoal]

to delay grad

if they dont

[full ridge]

before getting one

[cyan shoal]

ill just graduate

its more than that for me

which is kinda unique to my situation

so dont wanna dox

[full ridge]

interesting

all good

[cyan shoal]

but yea i have ways around it

[full ridge]

btw do you know how many questions in total

[shadow estuary]

also @cyan shoal they do ask on the app if youve interviewed before, so its not like oopsie i changed stuff up, its like if they actually figure it out its prob a blacklist lmao

[shadow estuary]

for phone?

[full ridge]

yeah

[shadow estuary]

Was like 1 q with a few parts

[full ridge]

like how many parts

i had disjoint parts

which is weird

i thought it builds up

[shadow estuary]

3-4 idr was a while ago

[full ridge]

hmm

[cyan shoal]

yea ik

[full ridge]

might be ngmi

[cyan shoal]

ehh js is 1 company

not the end of the world

[full ridge]

yeahhh

would have been nice

[shadow estuary]

Final is a lot harder so

[full ridge]

but free nyc trip would be cool

[shadow estuary]

ur swe?

[full ridge]

yes

[shadow estuary]

they're doing trips?

wtf

[full ridge]

i heard they do dont they

for final

[shadow estuary]

might be smth new idk

i didnt do it this yr

[full ridge]

you were also swe right

[shadow estuary]

ye

[full ridge]

was your final online?

oh i see

[cyan shoal]

swe they dont do in person onsite

usually

som exceptions if ur close

in person final is for qt

typically

[full ridge]

i heard on reddit they do but interesting

maybe only for EU

[cyan shoal]

interesting

none of my friends had in person onsite

all online

[full ridge]

i talked to someone who interviewed for london

[cyan shoal]

they were all us nyc office

[full ridge]

wellim in canada so im guessing it would be online then

[cyan shoal]

yea makes sense

from what ive seen us at least swe is mainly online

qt is all in person

[thin bramble]

They did in person swe for me

And I’m not close

[cyan shoal]

cool

idk just personal experience

idk shit definitively

[thin bramble]

JS onsite hotel is very bad

[full ridge]

any chance they have lower bar for off season lmao

ik the answer is no

probably higher bar

[thin bramble]

Loud noise from garbage truck

Bed was against the window at 2nd floor

[full ridge]

what hotel company

[thin bramble]

The Frederick

Is there a company where it is possible to apply for both QR and see

[thin bramble]

Wtf

Does JS offer different hotels

What are the better hotels

[shut void]

i got a nice ass room

shit had a living room in it

the mint house

[upbeat forum]

mine had 2 kitchens and a pool

[shut void]

o yea and a kitchen

[thin bramble]

💀

How do I get pass qt resume screening

Do I just give up finding a trading/research position and just do swe

I feel I'm interested in trading and can do strategies but apparently companies don't think so and only want me for swe

Think it's mostly a lack of prestige, more prestige is needed for trading position

But unless you already have prestige you cannot generate prestige out of thin air

I worked at decentralized exchange matching engine which traded 10+ billion now, and also did automated trading for months that was profitable

But apparantly that was not enough

Might study some stats and ml and list books I studied in the future

[sick bolt]

does anyone know how many interns are usually at optiver austin for swe

noooo, the limo was a black suv car for me but not the long limos if that was what you were thinking about. the hotels are more exciting

[shy tide]

My js hotel was really nice lol

[heady brook]

swe was like 8ish

[full ridge]

bro did EVERYONE have a jane street final

what is this

[wintry tendon]

sleeping in the frederick night before is like added difficulty

[wintry tendon]

yes

[thin bramble]

I fly in from central time, somehow my computer didn't have timezone reset

So I attempted to sleep at 00:00

For 45 minutes wasn't able to sleep for the trash car noise

And was able to get ear plugs from front desk at 00:45

[shy tide]

Mint house

[shy tide]

i could not fall asleep for 2 hours, got like 4 hours of sleep

[shy tide]

Lmao they were so many candidates there

[thin bramble]

How did you get mint house

[thin bramble]

Hotel in NY costing 600$ is probably worth 80$ in Shanghai

[cyan shoal]

Depending on the hotel beds are usually kinda nice

[wicked dagger]

has anyone done goldman superday?? can i please please dm you?

[wintry tendon]

bed quality + noise

[upbeat forum]

white noise merchant

[regal sorrel]

loews regency hotel so mid

[smoky gulch]

Frederick was cursed

Got like 3hrs of sleep there

Then bombed the interview

[woven haven]

May have lowkey bombed my only qSWE final #f

[rancid tangle]

if I choose 2 points randomly on the circumference of a circle, why is the expected arc distance between them 1/4 the circumference and not 1/2 ?

[vocal drift]

1/2 is the most it can possibly be (if they're directly opposite to each other)

[rancid tangle]

so simple and it makes it make sense immediately, thanks

i was mixing it with the expected position of the 2nd point

[vague sentinel]

It can be easier to think in terms of fixing the first point

Then the second point placement is symmetric

And you can visualize it

[rancid tangle]

let Y be the number of magazines you can sell, it has pmf

p(y) = 1/10 for y = 1, 2, ... 6
p(y) = 4/10 for y = 7

then the expected profit is E[-21 + Y * 5] = -21 + E[Y] * 5 = -21 + 4.9 * 5 = 3.5

because the original PMF for X is p(x) = 1/10 for x = 1...10, but even if you have x = 8,9,10 you can still only sell max 7 magazines

so you can imagine your sample space of "magazines sold" as
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,7,7,7

the Y i defined is Y = min(7, X)

nnp

[wintry tendon]

Has anyone done 5r first round to does 5r blacklist pipeline is crazy

[rancid tangle]

can someone help me see what's wrong with the logic in this solution for this problem

You have 2 boxes and 100 distinct cards numbered 1-100. At each turn you deal a card from the top of the deck and place the card in a box uniformly at random. What is the expected value of the smallest numbered card in the box that has card 100 in it?

I thought you could model the process as a sequence of 100 coin flips, where if its heads its in box 1 and tails its in box 2; and the i-th coin is the card numbered i. so if coin 100 is heads, then the smallest numbered card in the box that has card 100 in it is the first flip that lands head in the sequence. similarily if coin 100 is tails then the smallest numbered card is the first flip that lands tails
since the expected number of flips before landing a heads is 2, the expected number of flips before landing a tails is also 2
so i thought the answer would be 2 but its not

[tawdry plume]

I got an assessment for IMC Junior Trading Operations Specialist role. has anyone taken the assessment for that before? what should I expect

[wintry tendon]

the issue is you found the expected number of flips to get a heads, not the mean value of the lowest card. Those aren't equivalent. Try finding \sum_{i=1}^{i=100}xP(X = x) or something equivalent

[rancid tangle]

but if the coins numbered 1-100 are in correspondence with the cards numbered 1-100 isn't # of flips to first heads equivalent to lowest card in the HEAD box?

[wintry tendon]

2 is very close

its just under 2

suppose n=2, then its 1.5 right

but if you have n=200, it should be slightly more than when n=100

you can think of the question as the expected number of coin flips to get a heads conditioned on it taking less than 100 flips actually mb, so in this case expected number of flips to get a heads is just under 2

basically the answer is \sum_{k=1}^{k=n} k*1/(2^k) + (n+1)*2^(-n) = 2-1/(2^(n-1))

[brisk ingot]

anyone know how long citadel takes to respond after 1st phone for swe intern

[rancid tangle]

oohhhh thank you this cleared it up

i wasn't conditinoing on it taking less than 100 flips

[wintry tendon]

if you havent gotten rej yet i wouldnt stress bc everyone feels like they did terrible after 5r first round

oh word lmao

[tulip sapphire]

o'reilly books r p common for qd

[naive valve]

anyone down to exchange mock interviews for quant trading? i can give optiver quant trader final round mock

[obtuse moss]

does 2s do offseason

[obtuse moss]

🥲

[rancid tangle]

Can anyone provide some additional justification for the solution to this problem:

Let A and B be uniformly randomly chosen circular arcs of the unit circle where A and B are shorter than the full circle. What is the probability that A and B are disjoint?

Solution: Fix A. Consider the possibilities of the locations of the endpoints of B:

(1) 1 endpoint is inside A
(2) Both endpoints are inside A
(3) Both endpoints are outside A

In (1) and (2), both B and the complement of B intersect A. In (3), only the complement of B intersects A: B itself is disjoint.

As each possibility is equally likely, the probability of them being disjoint is 1/6.

intuitively it makes sense but what additional justification can be made for the fact that each of the 3 * 2 possibilties are equally likely?

[rotund glacier]

HRT vs Radix - have offers from both and have a very hard time deciding

I remember there was a guy here last year in a similiar situation, anyone can point me to him?

[long raft]

If I remember correctly most people who mentioned radix offers left the server because they got spammed with dms..
non company specific advise: money aside, look for where you can have larger impact, learn more, work on stuff you like…

[rotund glacier]

Right true, I just remember there was someone last year

alas oh well

[thin bramble]

are you SWE

[rotund glacier]

Yes

[thin bramble]

Are you fulltime?

If you made the decision can you share a bit about your decision and thinking

[rotund glacier]

Yes

[rotund glacier]

I have no idea what to do

[thin bramble]

Did they tell you what team/kind of work you are going to do

[rotund glacier]

Yes

I’m gonna be having come convos about it

We’ll see I guess

[midnight scroll]

why do textbooks do this >:(

[rotund glacier]

Because it’s trivial

[midnight scroll]

I'm not cut out for stats if this is trivial 😭

[devout tree]

Any pro tips on preparing for Optiver 45min Technical Screen? (SWE)

[quasi orbit]

did u get cit?

[rotund glacier]

Yes I’ve interned at one

It’s a difficult choice

😩 incredibly stressed

Dooming

[rose holly]

did u get system design for cit

like OOP?

oh

.

oh it wasn’t actual net working trivia?

ohh

[rotund glacier]

yeah

but like ugh

I have no idea

[rose holly]

Anyone have summer/fall intern server for Jump or Jane Street?

[twin verge]

probably interns

[twin verge]

waz

[rose holly]

waz

[twin verge]

Just apply and interview and see what happens tbh

[woven haven]

I’d say go to whichever city you think you’re gonna be happier in. Both will likely be similar career wise etc

[thin bramble]

What does "prepping for internships" mean

will you be interning next summer

[thin bramble]

where

[rotund glacier]

swe

[thin bramble]

What kind of business is radix, are they hft

[thin bramble]

ok?

[rancid tangle]

can you use central limit theorem ?

[final garden]

How long are you expected to take to solve brainteaser / math questions?

Im watching these mock interviews and I see them asking questions for like 20 minutes lol

[rose holly]

i lost my 4.0 am i doomed

[rose holly]

how did u lose it

[rose holly]

OS

[loud jolt]

I'm in the same boat...

[loud jolt]

Let’s see what they say tomorrow if they do in fact get back

[rose holly]

[weary nacelle]

I LOVE TOMMY

[lyric loom]

f u

[digital gust]

headlands 2nd phone advice?

Haven't seen a problem list for them. Should do what kinds of problems lol?

[vast ledge]

Hello

Anyone who’s a prop trader?

Im a new grad prop trader and would like to talk about your quant strategy?

[midnight scroll]

give away company secrets with this one simple trick!

[spark seal]

did anyone solve putnam A6?

what is solution

[brisk ingot]

anyone have any tips for prepping for cit onsite?

for swe intern

[digital gust]

Swe

[boreal tartan]

how is voleon data scientist

[soft geyser]

How is voleon ng? Are the interviews brutal

SWE

[rose holly]

brutal

[thorn hazel]

can i reapply cit after being rejected after interview for their APAC office?

[zealous whale]

https://youtube.com/shorts/LS2CrBSSbjg?si=1FKzyMBXL-sEPG44

[zealous iris]

any quants working ft

[mellow sky]

depends on how your interview went. all teams there share interview info. They have a 12 month holding period

[thorn hazel]

lets just say i solved the coding problem.
but made some stupidest stupidest technical mistakes possible since its like one of my first technical interview.

https://youtu.be/GwT6gGMRr9s?si=gTsPk3dFIG1hhXCQ&t=207

something like that

[mellow sky]

lol all good, you're probably able to be reconsidered for different parts of the business. your recruiter should be able to tell you what feedback is marked on your candidate profile there

or you could wait 12 months and try again

[thorn hazel]

bro ill dm u the mistake for ur entertainmain. dont wanna send it in public server 😭

[thorn hazel]

kk thx.

[zealous iris]

anyone here understand fixed income

[ornate urchin]

any1 know citsec ng tc ?

[supple shoal]

cit recruiters share feedback? is this only for apac or us too?

[quasi orbit]

i tried and they said they dont share

[vast relic]

they gave me a $10 uber gift card for feedback on the interview process lmao

even though they rejected i still got a (mostly) free dinner

[supple shoal]

i got ghosted when i asked

i think theres an eu think wher they r required to give feedback, but not for us

maybe its recruiter based

@blissful kite mind if i dm for ur recruiter email? maybe they will share feedback if i email them

sad

[supple shoal]

oh like at the end of the interview you asked them for feedback?

or you emailed them separately

[wind mulch]

$10 after reject not the worse

[rose holly]

yo does anybody know if IMC asks for character references or does it focus on just verification of employment?

[midnight scroll]

imagine being European

I remember there was some repo of some guy in Europe who applied to a bunch of firms and GDPR's all of em

A lot of the feedback and rubrics lowkey didnt say much at all

but it might be an interesting look if you want to look that up

https://github.com/Leader-board/OA-and-Interviews/tree/main/Application experiences

Look in the 2021-2022 folder

Didnt get far in many firms so not all of them have info, dont see any cit but still might be interesting

[brisk ingot]

they didnt ask for references

[split lintel]

@marsh ocean

[rose holly]

so just a normal background check then?

[midnight scroll]

If you're not European why would you be applying to European places

oh wait I guess this is #quants-n-traders

[brisk ingot]

yep

like verifying work exp, college status, etc.

[queen pendant]

true that

why voluntarily apply for poverty wages

[midnight scroll]

Yeah that's fair

[supple shoal]

anyone know if two sigma ghosts after final tech, but before final behavioral?

[winged aurora]

What do you guys think about ML platform system software engineer role? Would this role be too niche if I am looking to pivot into trading firms?

Seems like the skill set is directly transferable to trading firms as it's mostly c++ and high performant systems

Not sure if this role be too niche for a fresh grad, will appreciate any feedback or advice! 🙏🏻

[supple shoal]

damn aight thx

[reef wadi]

anyone at worked at or know a lot of Optiver I can DM about

[supple shoal]

anyone done peak6 trading bootcamp OA

[narrow surge]

hey there. when did you receive the oa

[vocal drift]

yeah did it yesterday

[supple shoal]

is it stats/probability?

if not what topics

[vocal drift]

mostly patterns and logic problems

a couple probability

[supple shoal]

bet thx

[thin bramble]

I'm looking to learn about execution and arbitrage strategies, are there public material available?

Can anyone recommend where to start looking

[harsh yacht]

has anyone done optiver swe intern final

[boreal tartan]

Sell high buy low

[undone finch]

buy low sell lower

[brisk ingot]

buy the dip to cover the loss, sell even lower

[pallid berry]

anyone know how long it takes to hear back after citadel leadership calls

[haughty lance]

Anyone know what's citadel tc for Chicago swe?

Got 1 yoe at one of databricks/snowflake/stripe

[haughty lance]

thanks!

actually recruiter reached out

is it worth to move forwards?

[thin bramble]

it probably varies a lot for citadel

no harm doing interviews?

[soft geyser]

Wait, does Voleon even hire people outside of UC Berkeley

I go to a shitter school [T200]

[sudden sonnet]

probably my friend goes to lot worse than t200 and waiting for results after final

[wind mulch]

do you work in a c++ team?

[haughty lance]

no

rust

[vague forge]

what quant roles rely more heavily on OS knowledge?

kernel dev the most id assume but what else

[quasi orbit]

latency

if u wanna do hft swe its latency and not even close

[queen pendant]

stripe is the worst here

imo

[vague forge]

.

Im in second year of uni so I don’t wanna pigeonhole myself. But I find low level work cool. Is that broad enough to keep learning abt

[fast gazelle]

i love writing exchange adapters

[supple shoal]

Has anyone been rejected from two sigma swe intern after final tech? All I’ve been seeing is rej after final behavioral

[regal sorrel]

21s are good

[scenic bison]

higher rep ranges are better

[scenic bison]

Yes

[tulip sapphire]

ik people from ivies who got voleon offers so yes

ik a lot of people from Brown who got offers and worked there

[scenic bison]

random

[brisk ingot]

oa isn't that bad

[indigo flare]

Anyone gave Cubist Systematic interviews?

[low vault]

your mom did

[vague forge]

your mom did

[thin bramble]

lgm?

what handle

[thin bramble]

hmm

very impressive

[solemn marsh]

is peak6 good

[vague forge]

no

[split lintel]

https://codeforces.com/profile/Plasmatic

[low vault]

i am not lgm haha

[thin bramble]

I should probably do codeforces

used to be good

[thin bramble]

theres still large difference between the best contestants

a rating gap of 400 = 90% better performance in contests

800 = 99% better performance in contests

[midnight quartz]

anyone know what questions they ask during the sig discovery day phone interview

for trading

[midnight scroll]

If its anything like the normal sig interview its probably just a resume talk

is it 30 minutes

[midnight quartz]

yeah its 30 mins but they said to have a paper and pencil handy as well

oh gotcha

any advice for where i could prep and refresh with some practice problems?

[midnight scroll]

There's a couple sites out there that do basic Bayes and EV questions but I feel like for a initial phone round it can't be too bad

Most sites are paid though and frankly not worth the exorbitant asking prices

I guess just run down the green book

[balmy bloom]

is interest rate modelling fun?

got an offer for that from sell side BB.. python & R heavy

it seems fun to me but reality is often different from the books

[indigo flare]

Any thoughts/advice on Cubist central research team Software Engineer role vs Intuit SDE 2?

[midnight scroll]

Cubist is point72

Well not the same but you've probably heard of point72

[rose holly]

id suggest you go for intuit and convince them to bring back mint

[lyric loom]

hrt cult

[stable radish]

This is the cult I wanna be in

[vague forge]

wtf

[split lintel]

So prestigious

[thin bramble]

have you been in hrt office

What's the main advantage besides the high floor

How many floors is hrt office

[shy tide]

aquafina crazyyyyyyyy

JPMC had better water

[tulip sapphire]

fr most firms have VOSS and just water

at least js has jsut water

[shy tide]

I remember they had other options too

[pallid berry]

anyone know anything abt Xantium?

[deep cargo]

besides there being a good offer in csm in new grad offer details, no

[pallid berry]

seemed kinda mid for a quant firm in new york tho no?

[deep cargo]

i mean for quant yeah its low, in general its a good offer

[sudden sonnet]

theyre under tudor

[eternal python]

Did anybody do the ERQ test for Optiver

[pallid berry]

can i dm?

[somber orbit]

does anyone know process for AQR

analyst

[wraith wolf]

When you are at a networking event or talking with old school acquaintances, you say AQR - their eyes LIGHT up. Not even kidding. It's so elite and prestigious. The best part is when some random CS majors don't know what is - it only clearly means they are a loser who only knows the big stupid brand names like Citadel or Jane Street. AQR. It's prestigious. It's sexy. It's hot. AQR.

[deep cargo]

When you are at a networking event or talking with old school acquaintances, you say AQR - their eyes LIGHT up. Not even kidding. It's so elite and prestigious. The best part is when some random CS majors don't know what is - it only clearly means they are a loser who only knows the big stupid brand names like Citadel or Jane Street. AQR. It's prestigious. It's sexy. It's hot. AQR.

[split lintel]

When you are at a networking event or talking with old school acquaintances, you say AQR - their eyes LIGHT up. Not even kidding. It's so elite and prestigious. The best part is when some random CS majors don't know what is - it only clearly means they are a loser who only knows the big stupid brand names like Citadel or Jane Street. AQR. It's prestigious. It's sexy. It's hot. AQR.

[twin verge]

aqr is so fetch

[fast gazelle]

@lyric loom yo

[haughty hinge]

anyone interviewed for citsec rates team?

[haughty hinge]

💀

Just my 2nd interview

[final garden]

Whats the minimum GPA needed to have a shot at getting into these firms

[wraith wolf]

3.5 at the least

some firms care more than others tho

[glass barn]

anyone have tqd inv

[final garden]

Yea makes sense

I know some people who got into quant firms with < 3.0, granted they had insane projects and a lot of work expierence

One of them had a 2.8

[brisk hearth]

did everyone get a fucking laptop or smt?

does anyone here have any experience in coding poker bots?

[twin verge]

isn't poker solved by bots

literally just follow whatever the solver says

and code it up

[brisk hearth]

yea im tryna implement that method rn, but it's kinda hard. like i alr implemented vanilla CFR, but that's way too complex to train on a laptop, so im tryna use deep cfr or mc cfr, and leaning towards deep CFR since i alr have exp w ML

do u have exp w deep cfr?

[brisk hearth]

yea but there's no like free available table of just situations and action probabilities on the internet i can use. all of the decent solvers r being some paywall

[wraith wolf]

Yeah there are some variations of poker that are considered "solved" in the strict sense. Texas holdem is definitely not one of those

[brisk hearth]

Like a poker simulator?

Wdym?

They just play infinite games and then keep track?