competitive_discussion

[foggy lodge]

Which isn't a bad thing in certain situations ofc

[molten oasis]

I trust my gut when making reads

[foggy lodge]

But sometimes like you just gotta go for the hard read

[molten oasis]

Usually, I’m right

[rustic mountain]

yea its really just knowing wen u should and can make those reads which always varies game to game format to format

[foggy lodge]

Fuck everything this goes right or wrong

[molten oasis]

I win or lose basically

[foggy lodge]

Like today I saw a stream from a guy and the endgame was basically

Flutter lunala vs incin csr outside of tr

[rustic mountain]

i prefer not making reads tbf, i think better gameplay involves less making big calls like that but sometimes u just gta let it rip

[foggy lodge]

Flutter had sash and they were basically going for the hard read of csr protecting but they went for i think icy wind to cover for CSR not protecting

And it did protect but meteor beam missed but at the same time like

[molten oasis]

I agree, I used to play very high risk high reward and uh, that wasn’t good

[foggy lodge]

Yeah rng sucked but I think if you are going for the hard read

Just go for moonblast moongeist into the incin

[rustic mountain]

u gta commit at that point yea

[foggy lodge]

Cuz it was in range of that

[molten oasis]

Gotta know when to meteor beam on nala

But that’s a rough miss

[rustic mountain]

i love wen a lunala thinks they r crafty nd rips a meteor beam into wat was once incin and is now rilla or urshi

[molten oasis]

Lmfao

[rustic mountain]

nd then im like ok wat now

[molten oasis]

It’s hard to make that call tbf cuz sometimes the nala just goes “nah tr”

[rustic mountain]

then i can knock off b4 u beam

or u beam into something else and incin can p shot u down

[molten oasis]

That lowkey feels the worst

[foggy lodge]

I liked Kobayashi's team cuz it just bullshited on Lunala LOL

[molten oasis]

Of all of those that feels the worst cuz you literally don’t profit from that turn lol

[rustic mountain]

lunalas strong i think the power herb set is actually weakest for it tho still solid

[foggy lodge]

It was scarf urshifu with specs mirai which wasn't super common but a play you had which i made pretty commonly was just

Surging volt switch into lunala and it just goes down

[molten oasis]

Eseed with Mirai or even cm lefties is cool

Psyspam nala too

[foggy lodge]

Cuz surging goes first breaks the shadow shield goes through intimidate and electric seed and miraidon just kills it

[molten oasis]

That’s cool

[foggy lodge]

I wonder if mirainala without tera would be good

[molten oasis]

Maybe

[foggy lodge]

I feel like with Mirainala both restricteds just feel a bit unsafe to use without tera

[molten oasis]

It’s still one of the best tr setters next to the anti sleep guy

[foggy lodge]

Miraidon a bit less than Lunala

[molten oasis]

Things like zacian and groudon get better when Tera isn’t around

Groudon mostly cuz koraidon is much weaker without Tera fire

I think Lunala Mirai will see play tho it’s a good duo

[cyan smelt]

Ogre is still a monster with or without tera

[molten oasis]

Eh

I think for the most part Kyogre was smth you had to respect but it wasn’t anything crazy

For SV

[cyan smelt]

It can shrug off the horses no problem

[molten oasis]

Not miraidon, which is often next to CIR, zama is an issue for ogre too

Horses sure but otherwise it was okay, and you have a sun setter that can switch into ogre and resist it

[cyan smelt]

Miraidon is a problem for most mons in sv tbh, it's telling that the main ways of dealing with it are indeedee and rilla

Ice spinner chien pao too ig

[molten oasis]

A lot of that I feel is due to Tera

[cyan smelt]

The horses would also be nowhere near as prevalent without tera

Maybe i should go with a balance team for reg i or something involving smeargle bc i liked smeargle gambit incin rilla gholdengo sneasler in reg h

[rustic mountain]

w/ primals? hell no haha

each on their own w/ another primal sure but not together

[cyan smelt]

I don't even know which megas will be good, i'm so out of the loop, ik mega mence is guaranteed to be good

[molten oasis]

But what if no primal

[rustic mountain]

theres a smeargle torn csr/zama team thats annoying, basically spore decorate fake out and i think wide guard on most but fourth is a flex slot ive seen spiky shield too

[cyan smelt]

Wait why does this sound right up my alley lmao

[rustic mountain]

then yea i think it might b good

[molten oasis]

Neat

[cyan smelt]

I know a lot of people hate smeargle but i love it

[molten oasis]

Is koraidon just dead without Tera? Like I’m not 100% sure groudon will outclass koraidon always without Tera

It is a water resist switchin to kyogre

[cyan smelt]

Doesn't koraidon die to one draining kiss from a clefairy

[molten oasis]

That would be insane but probably not

[rustic mountain]

nah its not dead just not gna b something ur gna wanna lead into opposing flutter, or u could like have mega metagross and just bullet punch it and ggs

[molten oasis]

It hates flutter tho

Zac Korai could actually be smth

[cyan smelt]

It even hates miraidon dazzling gleam

[rustic mountain]

itll def take a hit in useage

[molten oasis]

Cuz you don’t do that nowadays cuz you just Tera fire korai, but korai can’t do that in a no Tera format

[rustic mountain]

itll go from border top 5 to niche pick prolly

hard to say tbh

[molten oasis]

Huh, Mirai loses Tera fairy gleam, that’s good

[cyan smelt]

Calyrex shadow goes back to dying from one sucker punch again

[rustic mountain]

horses will b good just not the powerhouses they were

and if primals are allowed they prolly become not that great honestly

[cyan smelt]

What will even be able to take down the primals because offensively ground/fire is such a good typing and you can enable the paradoxes at the same time so pdon next to bolt will be a huge threat

[rustic mountain]

weather control mostly

[knotty mirage]

Well there weezing now

[molten oasis]

The big thing with primals back then was that Tera were already not really that many viable restricted legends

Now we have A LOT more

[rustic mountain]

does weezing override that? and if it does have fun taking p blades from primal groudon to the face

[rustic mountain]

its been 3 gens haha its not that many

[molten oasis]

We went from like, 5 to 12 wdym

Gen 6 there was, Yveltal and xerneas, then groudon kyogre and ray. Now we have, those 5, Lunala Zama Zac CIR CSR Koraidon and Miraidon

[rustic mountain]

again tho we are talkin about a future format w/ primals where most of those guys prolly rnt wat u want on ur team anyway

[molten oasis]

In terms of restricteds I’d say so

[molten oasis]

Fair enough

[rustic mountain]

we got more sure but we were literally just talkin about how some of these will fair w/o tera period let alone w/ primals coming back potentially as centralizing as those are

[cyan smelt]

Cir, zac and zama don't want a primal eruption and zac and zama and mirai don't want pblades

[molten oasis]

The only one I feel like just doesn’t get to play the game in a primals format is Koraidon

[shadow wind]

Especially if Orichalcum pulse doesn’t work in desolate land

[cyan smelt]

Conner you'll be happy your boy gets to shine again

[shadow wind]

Extremely

[rustic mountain]

yea theres def other ways u can play the newer restricteds still, i just dont know how great theyd b vs like xerndon and shit

[molten oasis]

Zacogre

[knotty mirage]

I mean cloud nine affect primal weather so why not for neutralizing gas

[cyan smelt]

Xerndon with smeargle is about to be very annoying

[molten oasis]

In my opinion, Zacogre can sort of act like a counterpart to Xerndon

[knotty mirage]

And p blade have 15% chance to miss

[shadow wind]

Problem is Groudon clowns on Zacian while Xerneas still chunks Kyogre

[rustic mountain]

heavy position game that im not sure favors zacogre but yea maybe

[molten oasis]

Zacian clowns xerneas and kyogre is your anti groudon thing

[shadow wind]

Son I’m cryne

Desolate land maxxing

[rustic mountain]

if groudon comes in after kyogre u gotta switch out or ice beam it

[shadow wind]

It’s all positions

[molten oasis]

No cuz groudon is busted but yeah

Hence why I’m thinking I’m gonna be testing lando I with it

[shadow wind]

How much does +2 moonblast from Xern do to Pyogre?

[molten oasis]

You don’t wanna switch into that

[shadow wind]

Probably like 60-70 right?

[rustic mountain]

pyogre

[cyan smelt]

Pdon + chien pao, yikes

[shadow wind]

Peeyogre

[molten oasis]

MY POINT IS, you have a physical special duo

[shadow wind]

It’s true

[rustic mountain]

a lot

[shadow wind]

160 spdef is no joke though

Especially when hp invested

[rustic mountain]

60-70% seems fair

maybe a bit less depending on bulk

[cyan smelt]

Are we about to see a lot of primal ogre with basculegion

[molten oasis]

And even in the context of just xerndon, zacian covers for ogres issues into xerneas. And it still covers kyogre really well

[shadow wind]

But then again it’s a +2 Xern

[rustic mountain]

u can also just run the calc in showdown

[shadow wind]

I’m in bed 😔

Getting my rest after they took my teeth

[molten oasis]

I think you likely use some other tools to help your xerndon mu tho, like lando

[rustic mountain]

im too lazy for that rn

[shadow wind]

They actually took so many of my teeth it’s crazy

[molten oasis]

Wisdom teeth?

[rustic mountain]

yea each team has tools for the other

[shadow wind]

Yeah and actually they took a below average amount

[rustic mountain]

bolt for kyogre, lando for groudon and then bolt etc

[shadow wind]

Got 3 taken out

[molten oasis]

Yeah, it’s all teambuilding

I can see ogre CIR tho

[shadow wind]

Bolt doin 40 to Kyogre with a thunder 😭

[cyan smelt]

Lando i or lando t, i feel like lando t is dead

[rustic mountain]

its possible

[molten oasis]

Idt it’ll be better than Zacogre at that point tho

[rustic mountain]

lando t almost won a regional recently

[molten oasis]

I think ogres best partner in a format like that is Ray xern or Zac

[rustic mountain]

its not wat it was, but its not bad

[shadow wind]

Sounds like Yveltal fodder a little bit

[cyan smelt]

Intim can't be sniffed at

[rustic mountain]

nd top cut a recent tour as well

[shadow wind]

Especially if no Tera

[molten oasis]

Glacial Lance?

[rustic mountain]

idk dude itll tank a dark move and then just yeet yveltal

[molten oasis]

Oh, wait that foul play is gonna hurt like hell nvm

CIR also helps with miraidon

[shadow wind]

Foul play dealing 120%

[molten oasis]

Idk about that

[shadow wind]

On my life

[rustic mountain]

then ill just set up tr and glacial lance u and ggs

[molten oasis]

I’m opening the calculator

[rustic mountain]

make sure u cant hit me first

[shadow wind]

165 base attack with a 117 BP stab move

I don’t care how beefy CIR is that hurts

But don’t screw me and go 36 adamant 252 hp

[molten oasis]

Oh my god

Dark Aura Yveltal Foul Play vs. 252 HP / 252+ Atk / 0 Def Calyrex-Ice Rider: 200-236 (96.6 - 114%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

[shadow wind]

I hate that horse bro

[rustic mountain]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-try-not-to-laugh-gif-7682731162751353849

[molten oasis]

It not being guaranteed is fucking wild dude

[cyan smelt]

Cir is groudon's worst enemy

[shadow wind]

Agreed

[shadow wind]

What are we even on

[molten oasis]

Not primal groudon

[cyan smelt]

Oh pdon

[shadow wind]

Bro is not tanking an eruption

[molten oasis]

Go go gadget sun boosted 180 att BP heat crash

[shadow wind]

Nah calc that

[molten oasis]

PDON GETS HEAT CRASH FUUUCK

[shadow wind]

40 bp move btw

[rustic mountain]

conner seems to forget fake out trick room exists

[molten oasis]

No fucking shot

[rustic mountain]

then its glacial lance ggs

nd then i decorate w/ my smeargle

[cyan smelt]

What does ursaluna headlong rush do to pdon

[shadow wind]

🫩

[shadow wind]

With guts probably ohkos

[molten oasis]

Wow that’s ass

[shadow wind]

What

[rustic mountain]

thats great

[molten oasis]

It’s 40 bp, it be better to run fire punch

[rustic mountain]

u need to have counters to even the broken guys haha

[shadow wind]

Yes

[molten oasis]

That’s sad

[shadow wind]

That’s why I used to run it over crash

[molten oasis]

What about zacian, hm

[shadow wind]

I’ve been saying that Groudon needs to be heavier

[molten oasis]

It’s 60 bp LOL

[shadow wind]

Heat crash into Zacian is 60 BP I think

Yeah and I think it’s 40 into Zama

[molten oasis]

Forgot how heavy zacian is

[cyan smelt]

Do not try heat crash into another groudon, it does nothing

[rustic mountain]

then it teras into water nd u do 2 damage

[molten oasis]

It’s not zama but it’s heavy

[shadow wind]

Groudon needs to weigh like 2x as much

[shadow wind]

Be lucky with 1

[rustic mountain]

the return of groudon will b soon

[molten oasis]

Oh I’d get to use bacon bird in primals

[shadow wind]

Groudon power creep but just give him 2x the weight

[molten oasis]

Uhhhh, what do you play Yveltal on?

[shadow wind]

Av

Usually anyway

[molten oasis]

No with another restricted

[shadow wind]

Groudon worked with him in Gen 8

[molten oasis]

Wait, zacian covers its weaknesses!

[cyan smelt]

I feel like it'd be good with miraidon like how people run ho-oh and miraidon

[rustic mountain]

nah

[shadow wind]

Ho oh resisted fairies

[molten oasis]

I’m gonna run so many suboptimal duos in that format dude

[shadow wind]

Yveltal does not resist fairies

[rustic mountain]

ho oh yveltal seems too passive

[molten oasis]

Way too passive

[rustic mountain]

also field day for bolt

and miraidon

[molten oasis]

Yveltal looks a little more supportive than offensive for a restricted

Supportive+offensive restricted is gas

[cyan smelt]

Dark aura boosted snarl might be good

[molten oasis]

ultimate CSR destroyer

[rustic mountain]

yea yveltal walls csr completely

[molten oasis]

I think it’ll be better cuz of the horses

But it also has to deal with miraidon and the dogs soo

[rustic mountain]

right

[molten oasis]

Maybe not lol

[rustic mountain]

its always seemingly more of a niche choice

[cyan smelt]

Is anyone gonna run mega zygarde

[molten oasis]

You beat 2 of like 6 notable restricteds

[rustic mountain]

i was just gna mention zygarde lmao no mention

[molten oasis]

It’s gonna be really hard to run mega zygarde

You have to be at half hp, and chien pao exists

[rustic mountain]

yea

[molten oasis]

Ogres run ice beam, zacian

Gleam Mirai

CIR, I could go on

[cyan smelt]

Ruination strats maybe

[rustic mountain]

i think ppl will make it work im just curious how well that turns out to be

[molten oasis]

100%

[cyan smelt]

Half hp does make it really awkward

[rustic mountain]

if it becomes insane calculus equation to like a weird 2-3 gimmick strat then yea its gna suck but if ppl can do something effective right off rip, we might get somewhere

[molten oasis]

It’s probably gonna require incin to work

[molten oasis]

Zygarde is an awkward Mon to use

Just in general

[cyan smelt]

Yeah it's a huge pain to set up

[molten oasis]

The whole 50% hp for your actual restricted thing is cool, but it’s not very good

[rustic mountain]

over 200 sp atk and its ability is nothing to scoff at, its just how do we get here

[molten oasis]

Uhhhhhh

[rustic mountain]

insane stats

[molten oasis]

True but, you’re at half hp

[molten oasis]

Oh

[rustic mountain]

sinischa

[molten oasis]

It doubles hp, so it be effectively at the same hp, FUUUUCK

Sini or Comfey + mega zygarde sounds so annoying

[rustic mountain]

sinistcha/incin + other restricted

[cyan smelt]

Wonder if a comfey draining kiss could get it to half hp

[rustic mountain]

av incin w/ snarl

[molten oasis]

Draining kiss is an insanely weak move

It LOOKED strong because CSR gets a boost when it Tera fairies

[shadow wind]

Tera bp boost was such an unneeded mechanic

[cyan smelt]

Oh wait i was thinking of draining kiss next to wp yveltal

[rustic mountain]

nd nasty plot

[molten oasis]

Which is a mechanics that was never used even tho it was a neat mechanic on paper

[shadow wind]

60 BP nuzzle was funny though

[rustic mountain]

weakness policy kinda sucks outside dmax

[molten oasis]

GO RAICHU TERA ELECTRIC NUZZLE!

[rustic mountain]

i think as far as ive seen prior was seen very sparingly on nothing too noteworthy

[shadow wind]

There’s too many good items now

[rustic mountain]

not to say it couldnt b good i just dont know if wp yveltal is the one

[molten oasis]

Maybe the horse dialga and Palkia will get some usage

[shadow wind]

Weakness policy won’t see a lot go a play

[molten oasis]

Those guy didn’t end up working at all in sv

[shadow wind]

Big doubts

[molten oasis]

I said maybe

[shadow wind]

The don’t do anything

[rustic mountain]

palkia had some shine in dmax

[molten oasis]

Palkia walls kyogre and gets a boost from it that’s nice

[molten oasis]

then loses to groudon we don’t talk about that

[rustic mountain]

origin forms suck

[molten oasis]

They look better

[shadow wind]

I mean it’s just strictly better stats wise no?

[molten oasis]

The abilities tho, uh, oof

They do not have real abilities

[shadow wind]

Hey if pp ups are gone pressure could be good

[molten oasis]

You don’t even beat Lunala as a tr niche with Ursa that’s WILD

[shadow wind]

3 Astral Barrages seems peak to me

[molten oasis]

Run Eternatus at that point

Eternatus is likely the best of the pressure restricteds

[shadow wind]

Hey they both have pressure

[molten oasis]

Poison dragon good

[shadow wind]

Water dragon good

[rustic mountain]

how, y do i want my palkia to be faster wen its still entirely outclassed by other faster better legends

[molten oasis]

Ok you got me there

[rustic mountain]

its sp atk isnt better, nor its defenses

[shadow wind]

Less wasted stats I guess

120 speed allows to to beat a lot more

[rustic mountain]

they gave it to the wrong stat

[molten oasis]

Huh, the restricteds are way faster now

[rustic mountain]

speed is entirely unhelpful for it

[molten oasis]

They used to all be sub 100

[shadow wind]

Real

[molten oasis]

Now they’re all 135+ lmao

[rustic mountain]

now 120 is slow

[molten oasis]

wild

[shadow wind]

I bet origin form Draco kills Pdon

[rustic mountain]

not slow actually but not fast

in comparison

[shadow wind]

Well I guess just Groudon

They share those stats

[molten oasis]

Only reason ogre and groudon get to play is weather I feel

Spout wouldn’t be anything crazy without the rain

[shadow wind]

But 130 x 1.2 x 1.5 off a 150 definitely kills

Drago can you calc that for me

[molten oasis]

Wait every good spout/eruption type of guy has a 1.5 boost

[shadow wind]

Mega blastoise

[molten oasis]

Regidrago Ogre and Torkoal all get some sort of ability boost

[rustic mountain]

"hey this mon would suck if it didnt have this good thing going for it"

[shadow wind]

Real

[molten oasis]

Okay I have to play zacian without an ability sometimes and it still puts in work

[rustic mountain]

and if they actually were real they wouldve made zacian the offensive one have fighting type

and give the defensive one the better defensive type

[shadow wind]

Body press gaming

[molten oasis]

Fairy’s a better offensive typing

[shadow wind]

Not thematically

[molten oasis]

That’s true

[molten oasis]

That IS better offensively wtf

https://tenor.com/view/green-alien-cat-green-alien-cat-meme-cat-rage-meme-angry-alien-cat-gif-16978295465898295971

[rustic mountain]

[molten oasis]

Zacian would get close combat and behemoth blade instead of uh, play rough

[shadow wind]

Man I love the Ground type

[molten oasis]

Still hate that physical fairies get shafted

AND I MEAN IN GENERAL

[rustic mountain]

ground is arguably the best offensive type in the game

that or ice

[shadow wind]

I wouldn’t say anyone is even arguing against it

[molten oasis]

Being a physical fairy is a curse

[shadow wind]

Ice is the only contender

But ice can’t hit steel

[molten oasis]

Ground>

[rustic mountain]

thats y they had to make mamoswine very manageable, my boy would b too broken otherwise

[molten oasis]

Ground fairy on a good pokemon would be insane

[shadow wind]

My goat 😔

[shadow wind]

Sheer force Mon with moonblast and ep

Lando pt 2

[rustic mountain]

hell no

[molten oasis]

Vgc is over

[rustic mountain]

nah itll b hisuan zoroark level

[molten oasis]

Probably honestly

[rustic mountain]

ground fairy is too good as a type

[molten oasis]

Fire fairy I do wanna see

[rustic mountain]

y xerndon was so oppressive

[molten oasis]

That is a cool typing

[rustic mountain]

i hope the new fire starter is

give a counterpart to incin

and have special intimidate

[shadow wind]

😔

Nah special intimidate will mark the death of vgc

[rustic mountain]

hahaha u think

[shadow wind]

Yeah

Honestly it’d be a 99% usage mon

[molten oasis]

Then why isn’t incin 99% usage

[rustic mountain]

right

[shadow wind]

Cause there’s will o wisp and other intimidators

[rustic mountain]

u obviously have an item to combat it as well

[molten oasis]

Special attackers are too strong.

[rustic mountain]

clear amulet

[molten oasis]

Like, in a vacuum, they’re too strong

[molten oasis]

Add frostbite

[shadow wind]

Quiver dance, AV, snarl, struggle bug, parting shot

[molten oasis]

That SHOULD be a fucking mechanic I hate that not being a mechanic

[shadow wind]

Lots and lots of special ways to have damage control

[rustic mountain]

if the mon isnt insanely strong its not that concerning u can kill it, swap out then ur good and obviously would b something thatd need more distribution as time goes on

[molten oasis]

Thinks like Miraidon and CSR would have more counterplay with a special intimidate

[shadow wind]

It just needs 80 defences and 90 hp and it’s the best mon ever introduced

[rustic mountain]

bulk up, breaking swipe, parting shot

clear amulet

[shadow wind]

Parting shot was a bad pull

[molten oasis]

Victory dance

[shadow wind]

But bulk up in a specially orientated game is so tame compared to quiver dance

[molten oasis]

They put that on a Mon that wouldn’t use it

[rustic mountain]

yea i do not think itd b a negative

[shadow wind]

So we got jokes now

[molten oasis]

Plus like let’s be real,

[shadow wind]

But the bulk up vs calm mind debate will never in a million years be bulk up favoured

[rustic mountain]

i actually think itd b better, i agree it could b overused but if the mons low power itd prolly fade out eventually, fire fairy isnt an amazing defensive type

[molten oasis]

I don’t know how often youd use both unless the team was designed to be pure damage mitigation

[rustic mountain]

depends on the mon

[molten oasis]

We need better ways to handle special attackers they run the game at times

[shadow wind]

When you’re a special attacker and the other 4 meta Restricteds are special attackers calm mind has infinite potential

Because special dominates

[rustic mountain]

no frostbite + special intimidate puts them at an advantage that im not sure they need

[molten oasis]

[shadow wind]

AV is literally the only thing

[rustic mountain]

we have so many more tools to deal w/ physical attackers why r special attackers left untouched

[molten oasis]

That’s a lot of resistances

[shadow wind]

Been wondering this for years

[rustic mountain]

yea actually better then i thought lmfao

[molten oasis]

A lot of those are super notable LOL

[rustic mountain]

very

[rustic mountain]

honestly could combat incin

[molten oasis]

Actually really similar to incin huh

[shadow wind]

A fairy fire mon would perfectly fix Reg I for Groudon

[rustic mountain]

they need to do this

[molten oasis]

A fairy fire mon would just be fun and cool

It’s a really sick typing

[shadow wind]

And if it has special intimidate odds are 50/50 on it getting wisp

Just cause fire type

[molten oasis]

Frostbite!

[rustic mountain]

yea i think fire type alone gives it that

[molten oasis]

Blizzard having a chance to frostbite would feel better to deal with

[shadow wind]

Not guaranteed but a decent chance

[rustic mountain]

yea

[shadow wind]

My beloved Gouging fire got robbed

[rustic mountain]

ppl doin offensive gouging at the end of reg f now

boyt high on it did a whole rant about not bringing it to a regional but its so good

[molten oasis]

lol

[rustic mountain]

nd wolfey did bring it

[molten oasis]

He did good with it too

[rustic mountain]

supposed to b some crazy heat crash calcs in the sun? u can ohko incin or some shit

[molten oasis]

Sorry what

Sign me up I like incin nukes

[rustic mountain]

hahah

[molten oasis]

Anyway, I kinda hope the new starters are good

I wanna see a big wolf with pombom

it’ll get on 2 legs and all we can do is wait and watch

[sharp cobalt]

Clef, Skarm, Absol, Chomp, Lucario, Froslass, Exca, Meowstic, Hawlucha, Crab, Drampa, Scovillain, Glimm and Tats are all in. Starmie as well but we already know the mega ability. I hope we get their mega stones and their abilities

[delicate glade]

what are they

and are they good

I hope they give mega heatran earth eater

[sharp cobalt]

I wish we knew!

But honestly, putting all of these in and not giving their megas would be rude

[delicate glade]

They all get slow start

because they all have good stats

like a certain legendary

[sharp cobalt]

[cobalt tapir]

scovillain and good stats in the same sentence? surely not

[delicate glade]

he has good offense

[sharp cobalt]

M Scovillain gets +30 to both atking stats and +20 to both defenses

[delicate glade]

if you just don't get hit he's pretty good

[cobalt tapir]

[delicate glade]

they really gave scovillain the hoenn special

(Cacturne)

[sharp cobalt]

No joke, I wanna see how it performs in sun

If it gets chlorophyll

[delicate glade]

I just want some of the megas to outperform urshifu and incineroar

Variety is the spice of life

[near crag]

Check this replay out: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2026regi-2567012553

Missed a call early, but I think it's a pretty cool game

[chrome knot]

you want a mega to outperform a support mon ?

[delicate glade]

mainly urshifu

but maybe something like scrafty could beat incin

[chrome knot]

pick your favourite fairy, flying, psychic, grass, electric type mega

[delicate glade]

just one or one for each of those types

[molten oasis]

Manectric ig idk

[chrome knot]

just one & preferably a special attacker

[delicate glade]

dragonite

[molten oasis]

You’re not gonna outperform incin, it is incin, he is the ultimate duct tape

[delicate glade]

incin isn't gonna be ready for the megas that have a positive type matchup

[chrome knot]

theres no reason to try that xd just a mon that deals with it will do

[delicate glade]

like the fighting and ground ones

[molten oasis]

Uhhhhh

Lopunny gets scrappy, I guess

[delicate glade]

what is incin finna do against mega zygarde (when he becomes legal)

[molten oasis]

Incin gets stronger when the power of formats increase soo

[molten oasis]

Ah yes the mega that has to be at 50% hp to even utilize

In a format that will likely have chien pao, or CIR

[delicate glade]

but gets healed when it does, and had base 216 hp and sp. attack

[molten oasis]

“Healed”

[delicate glade]

i gets hp back

[molten oasis]

If it doesn’t explode t1

Base zygarde isn’t a good Mon

[delicate glade]

yeah ik

[molten oasis]

In restricted formats

For a restricted, you’re not all that bulky fast or hit hard, and mega zyagrde is a special attacker, so until you mega you hit like a wet noodle

[cobalt tapir]

depends on the form

[chrome knot]

hi im 4x effective glacial lance

[delicate glade]

as long as there's a good mega that can beat incin so badly that he gets invalidated then i'm happy

[chrome knot]

they need an hp range to get active

theyre gonna fucking explode

[molten oasis]

The one you start a battle with is the 50% form, and you have to hit half hp to get the good form

[cobalt tapir]

10% is fast but not tanky, 50% is bulky

[molten oasis]

And the damage the restricteds do nowadays is gonna make that really hard

[chrome knot]

https://tenor.com/view/glastrier-gif-21054576

[molten oasis]

One of them being an ice type does NOT help lol

[molten oasis]

it has 81 special attack that’s so bad…

[chrome knot]

firm believer that zamazenta will still be good in a restricted format

[molten oasis]

I think CSR zama will still exist

[near crag]

firm believer of the rebirth of zacian

[chrome knot]

sun gets a fuck ton better i wouldn’t think so ngl

[delicate glade]

-# mega zygarde has 216 special attack (literal highest offensive stat in the game)

[chrome knot]

zama kyogre

[molten oasis]

Right, primals

Yeah zama ogre could go hard, wide guarding precipice is huge

[chrome knot]

and they can’t tera ghost

means big dog sit yay

[molten oasis]

Or gleam from xern, if it doesn’t just rip moonblast

[chrome knot]

heavy slam that bitch

[molten oasis]

I think heavy slam doesn even hit it that hard, lemme double check

[delicate glade]

as long as mega chesnaught has at least some usage i'll be at peace

[molten oasis]

It’s 80 bp, damn

That’s respectable but bbash would be better

It definitely hurts tho it’s still se and stab

[chrome knot]

behemoth bash format it seems

youll do like 80%

[molten oasis]

You should 2hko unless you get hit by intimidate

Tho, idk if xerneas go super bulky or not so ig it depends on sets

[chrome knot]

no bulk

theyre max max nuclear bombs

[molten oasis]

Ah, yeah you just 2hko then

[chrome knot]

you have rolls for 2hko even @ -1

[molten oasis]

Oops, I forgot the attack went down

Yeah it’s a roll

I thought they only hit the defenses

I do wonder what duos will pop up in that format that isn’t rayogre or xerndon

[next stump]

https://x.com/vgcvictoryroad/status/2036699620403761610?s=46&t=fDxHQLlKCKU_ddfszOAZ6w

Victory Road VGC (@VGCVictoryRoad)

The format of PTC has been confirmed! #PTC2026
📄 OTS, including Nature
1⃣ Swiss rounds, best-of-3
2⃣ Top 16 single-elimination cut, best-of-3

The best players will earn invites to the 🗺️ 2026 World Championships! #PokemonWorlds
💴 Top 4: Invite + Travel Award
🏅 Top 16: Invite

X · Mar 25, 2026, 7:00 AM

Might seem small but OTS confirmed for Korea’s worlds tourney so hopefully that means it is staying for worlds/NAIC/etc.

[chrome knot]

tbh I wouldve thought ots was permanent

or theyd make some sort of announcement about it being changed back to cts

[waxen dock]

Me too

Bo3 cts is kinda lame

And bo1 cts is too cheesey and luck based

[foggy lodge]

@next stump

You got it right LOL

[dense latch]

https://x.com/serebiinet/status/2036806078374023196?s=46

Serebii.net (@SerebiiNet)

Serebii Update: Abilities for new Mega Evolutions have also been confirmed in Pokémon Champions

Mega Dragonite gets Multiscale
Mega Froslass gets Snow Warning

https://t.co/NWlAdn57aQ

X · Mar 25, 2026, 2:03 PM

[foggy lodge]

Multiscale aw man

[dense latch]

IVs are confirmed to be gone

[versed river]

incin lost knock off

[chrome knot]

LOL?

[real prairie]

WHAT? LOL

[chrome knot]

where @versed river

[versed river]

wolfes new video

he playtested champs

[next stump]

LOL

protect 12PP now

interesting

[versed river]

sitrus berry thief incin meta

[versed river]

isnt it 8?

[next stump]

oh shit you're right

my ting dozo strategy is dead

[violet smelt]

Incineroar lost knock off

What the helly

[chrome knot]

come play gengar with me…..

[next stump]

https://tenor.com/view/dadadadada-skibididop-eseses-gif-27452766

im down

[versed river]

gengar lost encore

[chrome knot]

i got rishi & brian hough with me on it lmao but cant cook until game release

[sharp cobalt]

What mesmerising movement

[violet smelt]

SNOW TEAM INCOMING HELL YEAH
(theres no way im making eiscue work anyway)

[versed river]

you know rishi?

[chrome knot]

thas okay u just go 2 stab perish

[chrome knot]

yeah hes a local

[versed river]

cool, im friends with him

[chrome knot]

i can see dat

u also know ashley

[versed river]

ya

[waxen dock]

Now you can rage quit during the turn

[real prairie]

just PKMN trying to force its signature move lol

[versed river]

id rather run throat chop or a supportive move ngl

[dense latch]

https://x.com/wellspringmask/status/2036807488905896099?s=46

adit 🏳️‍🌈 (@wellspringmask)

So I was wrong

Sucker Punch is at 8 Power Points (PP) it’s total when 3 PP Ups are used.

I’m personally happy that we will get to max these moves

Glad to appreciate Pokemon Battle Revolution and its crazy AI teams with people though

X · Mar 25, 2026, 2:08 PM

[dapper crag]

It looks like all moves are just PP-maxed

[versed river]

5 more bp than throat chop, ill still go throat chop if farig or sound moves are in the meta

[real prairie]

does Incin get throat chop?

[chrome knot]

yeah

[foggy lodge]

WE HAVE PP UPS

https://x.com/wjbaxVGC/status/2036722919359877318?s=20

wjbax (@wjbaxVGC)

With Pokemon Champions out in two weeks I don’t know if I’m ready to let EVs go and start thinking about “32/17/17” spreads 😭

X · Mar 25, 2026, 8:32 AM

I'm so ready man these will be so much better

[dapper crag]

Smaller numbers are easier

Champions really is shaping up

I think those abilities I shared are real

So what’s the current verdict on Mega Dragonite and Mega Froslass’s viability?

[chrome knot]

also @next stump if u want i have like 6 spare shiny haunters

[real prairie]

its really looking to be a SD killer

[real prairie]

Mega Froslass could really cook potentially

[dapper crag]

Snow Warning seemed like its best case scenario. And snow actually gives it some physical defense

[dapper crag]

What’s gonna be a SD killer?

[real prairie]

Champions

[dapper crag]

Oh god yeah

What about Dragonite? I kinda expected Multiscale but is that a good outcome for it and how will it perform?

[real prairie]

wonder how quickly the C&Ds fly to SD once Champions is released

[chrome knot]

they wont

[real prairie]

Depends if its Multiscale for any DN or if its just whatever its ability was before mega

if you have inner focus DN and it megas to Multiscale that could be handy

[foggy lodge]

They can't do anything to champions and they won't

Champions is an eternal beta because that way they can't shut it down

[real prairie]

you mean SD?

[foggy lodge]

Wait not champions showdown LMAO

[real prairie]

they can get them done for use of IP

[foggy lodge]

But yeah that's the reason why showdown says its a beta

[real prairie]

SD also had a use that PKMN couldn't justify killing without killing their whole comp scene

soon that won't be the case

[foggy lodge]

Champions is no replacement to showdown

[dapper crag]

I was thinking that to block an Intimidate and go mega, it can run mixed but a special set is probably a better option if you’re doing mega, right?

[foggy lodge]

If you kill showdown you still kill the scene

[dense latch]

i’m still gonna use showdown regularly even after champions drops i feel

[foggy lodge]

Because people will still have to test teams on showdown before to do it on champions

[dense latch]

ik ppl that play vgc without owning a switch

[real prairie]

Depends on Champions stats approach, if you can review all your MUs in the game SD could be cooked

[foggy lodge]

Its not free to build teams and that alone gives showdown a reason to be used

[lofty tartan]

I never test teams on Showdown. Not everyone does.

[real prairie]

Champions will be on any mobile or android device soon

[lofty tartan]

I personally don't like using Showdown. I know others that are the same

Killing Showdown doesn't eliminate the entirety of VGC.

[real prairie]

I'm not saying they will kill SD, just saying, as the pokemon company are well... them. its a possibility

[dapper crag]

We’ll see what happens

[lofty tartan]

They could issue C&Ds to Showdown. They evidently don't feel like it. But any unauthorized use of an intellectual property can be litigated.

The "beta" distinction doesn't protect them from that. It's not some magical clause to avoid things

[dense latch]

so many metagames would disappear with showdown it would be a really big shame

[real prairie]

yeah if they had it would have been biting off your nose to spite your face previously. they are putting themselves in a position though where even if it were to annoy fans, it won't be a significant impact anymore to comp

[lofty tartan]

That being said, I don't think they're positioning Champions to "kill SD". Just that these things mentioned above don't hold a lot of weight.

[real prairie]

not yet, but certainly going in the direction of it

[dapper crag]

It might make Showdown redundant in due time

[lofty tartan]

That's above my pay grade.

[dapper crag]

Now the real question is if we’ll have all 1,025 mons in by the time WW is integrated?

[lofty tartan]

Impossible to tell.

[lost sun]

ww?

[lofty tartan]

Wind and Waves

[dapper crag]

Winds and Waves

[lost sun]

oh yh

[real prairie]

well home integration to WW probably wont be til at least 6m after its release so they have time

18m +

[dapper crag]

It’s at least a year out, and it’s probably several months after, surely that’s enough time to fill out the roster

[lost sun]

is there a link to everything we know about champions

[real prairie]

it'll be a 2027 NOV release, all their main series games have been NOV releases if memory serves

[dapper crag]

There was an early access from Serebii, Wolfey, Moxie Boosted, and a bunch of other people

[lofty tartan]

Not all of them but many in recent time.

[lost sun]

I'll check them out thx

[gentle crag]

alexr8698 has given 1 Gen Rep to xelamajestic

[lofty tartan]

Diamond and Pearl were September for example

[real prairie]

Ah I somewhat recall that actually, getting it for my Bday early Oct

[lofty tartan]

Black and White were March

March for NA. Sept for Japan

[real prairie]

yeah that was before global releases, remember Emerald had something similar if i recall

[lofty tartan]

So really it can release at any time. Especially considering it was likely pushed back from a 2026/30th Anni release due to development

[dense latch]

from this and what i’ve read from a few japanese Q&As we might get semi consistent balance changes

unless there’s some translation errors or they just mean one set of balance changes from the SV —> Champions transition

[dapper crag]

It’s a live competitive game, I think they mean regular balance changes

[next stump]

https://tenor.com/view/dream-big-cyrus-lift-follow-your-heart-follow-your-dreams-gif-3035756566151705474

[versed river]

mega nite is a special attacker so it wont matter

[real prairie]

mixed tbf, still has good ATK

[sudden remnant]

is it april 8th yet

[real prairie]

but i guess it loses 10 ATK

so meh

[sudden remnant]

hi jack

[real prairie]

Yo Vex

[versed river]

yeah but what physical attacks are you gonna use to justify losing a ton of potential bulk/spa/speed

[sudden remnant]

espeed

[real prairie]

depends if you can have Tera + Mega and pick and choose which one you use

[versed river]

without tera?

[versed river]

i doubt we will tbh at least not for the first few formats

[sudden remnant]

its still 80 bp priority

[versed river]

why did my phone correct formats to edits ? 😭

[sudden remnant]

if not crazy damage it can certainly finish stuff off with priority

[versed river]

on a base 124 and a bad offensive type, kinda meh ngl

[versed river]

true

just saying theres no reason to run him as a mixed attacker

sylveon runs quick attack but still isnt trained to be mixed

[sudden remnant]

im not worried i dont plan to use it anyways

[versed river]

lmao fair

[sudden remnant]

the dnite i meant

[raven vortex]

trying to build a team but idk how to get a raging bolt

[sudden remnant]

im praying they dont forget mawile in champions

and then im gonna do a mawile umbreon rain team

[versed river]

wait for champions ngl

[versed river]

why umbreon 😭

i think champs will have all pokemon though, just not all of them legal at once

[sudden remnant]

https://tenor.com/view/sorry-gif-10019299127219281854

[sudden remnant]

cuz Umbee 😁

[versed river]

actually i dont recall seeing middle stage mons in any of those recruit things so maybe p2 and clefairy are washed

[sudden remnant]

https://tenor.com/view/spinel-pokemon-horizons-umbreon-headpat-pat-gif-15596552694489759879

[raven vortex]

killing myself

[sudden remnant]

genuinely just wait for champions in 2 weeks gang

[versed river]

or just play on showdown

[sudden remnant]

we dk if bolt will be there on release but it’ll probably get added eventually

[real prairie]

based on the dex apparently being ZA to begin with, i doubt we see bolt soon

[sudden remnant]

because i love it and scarlet violet wasnt kind to me and my moon cat

[versed river]

fair

[versed river]

i dont think we know that, thats just speculation

[real prairie]

yeah, thus "Apparently" lol

[versed river]

lmao

[sudden remnant]

https://tenor.com/view/umbreonserveranimate-gif-21971921

although i now have to hope politoed is in champions

[versed river]

it isnt in z-a

iirc

[sudden remnant]

unless some random new water type is given drizzle going into champions and gen 10

cuz im not using the stupid pelican 🫩

[dapper crag]

It is

[sudden remnant]

https://tenor.com/view/bendy-bendy-and-the-ink-machine-zamination-minecraft-bendy-fazbear-and-friends-gif-15232306376724335607

[chrome knot]

its shown in the trailers…?

[sudden remnant]

but that doesnt mean it will be available at launch🫩

istg if incineroar is in on launch im gonna cry

[chrome knot]

ah thats the kind of person you are

[versed river]

incin was there for the playtesting apparantly

[sudden remnant]

so most likely

[sudden remnant]

i dont like incineroar its so stupid

[chrome knot]

just a glue mon

[sudden remnant]

why does nintendo keep buffing this one singular pokemon

[chrome knot]

it lost knock off

[versed river]

they literally nerfed it in champs btw

[chrome knot]

it was literally nerfed😭😭

[sudden remnant]

while 90% of the pokedex is drowning this guy just gets everything 🫩

[chrome knot]

in my vgc tourist era

[versed river]

i like incin because it enables flutter

[sudden remnant]

flutter enables flutter

what do you need incin for

[versed river]

to have a usable physdef stat

[sudden remnant]

just kill them faster 😔

[versed river]

bro doesnt know about calm mind flutter

[chrome knot]

bro doesn’t know anything actually

[sudden remnant]

he does in fact thank you kindly

[shadow wind]

Oh nah

Back to darkest lariat??

[chrome knot]

might be throat chop angle

[shadow wind]

That’s definitely better

[chrome knot]

disable primarina, farig & lock in other incins

[shadow wind]

Or snarl I guess

[versed river]

definetly throat chop ya

or taunt/willo/snarl

[sudden remnant]

nah i just use specs in the sun

[versed river]

lmao

[sudden remnant]

if incineoar is gonna be in the base game i at least hope they have the rest of the starters as well

[shadow wind]

Why is moonblast not a bullet move

I know it’s a blast and not a ball

[chrome knot]

idk i feel so uncomfortable going only flare blitz, knock was just always useful lol

[shadow wind]

But the animation is literally just a ball

[shadow wind]

A 97 BP move did always hit hard

[versed river]

ive done it in reg i, it does feel kinda clunky sometimes though

[chrome knot]

however this means formats w scale shot dnite always will be wisp incin bc u cant just force it to gamble

[versed river]

yeah, so we can run incin+rilla!

[shadow wind]

Also not being able to remove covert cloaks or clear amulets is truly terrible

[sudden remnant]

no so i can run typhlosion meowscarada

[shadow wind]

Grimmsnarl with lagging tail trick meta might finally be back

[chrome knot]

i tried it when trying hh incin + csr going into reg g euic but

[versed river]

sitrus incin with thief ngl

[shadow wind]

Dang 85?

[dense latch]

gen 8 incin didnt have knock off and from what i remember it was split between darkest lariat and throat chop

[sudden remnant]

mega scrafty stonks might be on the rise

[shadow wind]

Lowkey really strong

[versed river]

lariat would be good into dozo if you didnt get wave crashed and if will o wisp wasnt better

[versed river]

gen 8 also didnt have farig

[shadow wind]

Is that the strongest non foul play physical dark move?

Yeah throat chop has like 18 more use cases now

[versed river]

why?

[sudden remnant]

cuz incin apparently doesnt have knock off

[chrome knot]

why would that matter

[versed river]

why would knock off be good on the 4x resist with an item that cant be knocked off

[chrome knot]

on a mega…

[shadow wind]

I remember using darkest lariat as an Archaludon “answer”

[dense latch]

yea but that’s a mega vs just a regular mon

[shadow wind]

Guys they’re saying since Incin doesn’t get it and scrafty does, Scrafty now has a “better” niche than Incin

[chrome knot]

@versed river are u going indy regionals?

[sudden remnant]

i wouldnt say “better” but yeah

[versed river]

nope, im EU

[shadow wind]

Not that knock off-less Incin makes Scrafty better

[chrome knot]

oop

[versed river]

going to utrecht and maybe turin

[chrome knot]

oo icic

[versed river]

or rilla will just run knock off instead

[dense latch]

tpci cant decide whether they want incin with or without knock off lmao

gen 7 it had it
lost it in gen 8
got it back in gen 9
now loses it again in champions

[shadow wind]

Very strange

Also I don’t think apple sauce has ever hit this hard

[sudden remnant]

keep it away 😔

[chrome knot]

150spe knock rilla my beloved

[versed river]

tpci isnt the one making those decisions

[shadow wind]

Didn’t realize apples sauce had game

[versed river]

fake out knock off drum beating wood hammer?

[shadow wind]

Just boom burst at this point

[versed river]

what does boomburst have to do with that 😭

[sudden remnant]

boom burst rillaboom??? 😭

[chrome knot]

nah at toronto 2024 i ran near max max rilla w/ fo knock glide wood hammer

[versed river]

oh lmao

[dense latch]

whoever makes those decisions then big pikachu or smth

[chrome knot]

@ tera grass to ohko bascs😭

[shadow wind]

Cause he a rockstar 🥁🥁🥁

[chrome knot]

got me a free box @ the day 2 cup bc of it LOL

[next stump]

https://x.com/zebanded/status/2036835858859581777?s=46&t=fDxHQLlKCKU_ddfszOAZ6w

Ze Banded (@ZeBanded)

Mega evolution now happens before switching, meaning you can now immediate override weathers from megas like charizard Y and tyranitar by switching in a weather mon
Likewise something like mega manectric would always intimidate then the other side switches out

X · Mar 25, 2026, 4:01 PM

wait this changes a ton wtf

[versed river]

lmaooo

[shadow wind]

Before

[sudden remnant]

NOOOOOOOO

[shadow wind]

Oh nah

[chrome knot]

yeah which means u can hard swap into a mega

[versed river]

that sucks

[chrome knot]

and always get weather control thats so fire holy shit

[versed river]

now mega metagross can get intimidated

[dense latch]

wtf

[sudden remnant]

i wouldnt say hard swapping into a mega is necessarily a good thing

[chrome knot]

hi im pelipper hard swapping into zard

[sudden remnant]

hi im pelipper hard swapping into a manectric thats about to eat me for breakfast

cuz the charizard didnt mega

[chrome knot]

😭?

[sudden remnant]

whats confusing

[chrome knot]

mons that wont be on a team together

[sudden remnant]

the charizard didnt mega its partner did and now that stupid bird is on the kfc menu

[sudden remnant]

wanna bet?

[chrome knot]

scream tail got me a sisterhood win and half a box side events are silly

[versed river]

im hoping therell be some champs side events in utrecht tbh

cos utrecht will be sv still

[chrome knot]

im p sure? when is utrecht

[versed river]

16/17 may

[dense latch]

manectric and zard y is definitely a pairing of all time

[chrome knot]

should be!

[sudden remnant]

cant 2 mons hold mega stones

[waxen dock]

Mega gallade buff

[versed river]

yep, but those 2 dont have synergy

[waxen dock]

Now bro can counter incin

[dense latch]

yea but why would you choose manectric and zard

also manectric without mega is ass so you wouldn’t really bring those two together

[sudden remnant]

cuz i like manectric, and i wouldnt use zard cuz id much rather have its literal replacement typhlosion

same stats and everything

[versed river]

typhlosion is not its replacement 😭

[sudden remnant]

you guys forget im all for using stupid combinations of pokemon

[sudden remnant]

what is this stat spread

[versed river]

ass

[sudden remnant]

like its not bad its just not good

[versed river]

like most gen 3 mons

[shadow wind]

Hey don’t talk about Groudon like that

[sudden remnant]

at least its uh mostly special

[versed river]

i said most 😭

[sudden remnant]

75 wasted attack points tho

[shadow wind]

90 spdef is workable alright

[sudden remnant]

so mega manectric is working with 70 hp

[shadow wind]

No need to hate the guy

[sudden remnant]

my goat mawile is also gen 3 but thanks to huge power hits like a fuckin truck with the best typing in the game

[next stump]

what is gonna happen when gengar mega evolves and the opponent tries to switch

[versed river]

itll go through

[next stump]

is it gonna be treated like a gothitelle switch

[versed river]

if you swap in gothitelle your opponent can still switch that turn

[sudden remnant]

whos ready for champions perish trap

[next stump]

wolfey’s first video is gonna be mega chimeco perish trap

[sudden remnant]

I HOPE SO

give chimeco some love

[versed river]

genuinely yeah

[sudden remnant]

will it keep levitate i wonder

[versed river]

he posted a poll asking what mega he should use first and chimeco won

[sudden remnant]

i voted chimeco myself 😁

[versed river]

me too

[foggy lodge]

I like how it shows that he was trying to build perish trap in his champions video today LOL

Talking about specifically Gengar and Incineroar changes

And losing encore specifically

[shadow wind]

Well mega Gengar is the THE perish trap guy

Also Maxi I think I might just be goated

Y’all were saying I’d be like dead

[foggy lodge]

How are you today

[dapper crag]

Switch happens first

[shadow wind]

Not even swollen

Mouth is a little sore but like obviously it’s going to be sore

Other than the mouth pain I feel completely fine

[versed river]

not anymore

[gentle crag]

https://x.com/zebanded/status/2036835858859581777?s=46&t=fDxHQLlKCKU_ddfszOAZ6w

Ze Banded (@ZeBanded)

Mega evolution now happens before switching, meaning you can now immediate override weathers from megas like charizard Y and tyranitar by switching in a weather mon
Likewise something like mega manectric would always intimidate then the other side switches out

X · Mar 25, 2026, 4:01 PM

mlbd (ID 197813560997314562)

[Embed Link](#competitive_discussion message) to #competitive_discussion

Command triggered by lylylysha. Message from · Mar 25, 2026, 4:28 PM

[sudden remnant]

they reworked mega evolution and switching order

[dapper crag]

Nah that’s so stupid

Absolutely terrible mistake

[foggy lodge]

If that applies to tera they also fucked up terapagos LOL

Cuz for example if you cover an indeedee switch you could go for tera terapagos fake out

So if indeedee switches in you destroy the terrain and fake out goes out

[shadow wind]

That’d be fried

[raven vortex]

guess what i just fucking got

all it cost me was... my iron crown 🥲

[lost sun]

is it the start of a ranked season or have the super low ranks actually started building usable teams

[next stump]

It’s almost the end of the season I believe

The only players left are the dedicated ones hahaha

[lofty tartan]

Or players that love punishing themselves

SV ranked is basically dead now

[rustic mountain]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezv1TyAodrs
for any1 that hasnt seen

[lost sun]

did he not think to hold an actual case and then edit the champions onto it

[lost sun]

makes sense I've not played in a while so now I'm all the way at the bottom

[chrome knot]

is ur pfp ai

[lost sun]

ye

[chrome knot]

case closed i fear

[rustic mountain]

for sure, for wat weve seen so far its still pretty time consuming and costly to build a team and train it in champions just to see if its even good first. sd still gna b that outlet for the beforehand

[lost sun]

SD would remove the IVs and copy the champions system for champions formats right

[next stump]

One thing that Cybertron brought up is that there are large initial barriers for Champions but once you have the pokemon and train them fully, small tweaks should be really easy

Like if you want to test out AV incineroar versus sitrus berry and a different spread, that should be really easy once you have a trained Incineroar

But unless Champions adds either (or both) OTS/best of 3, competitive players will always use showdown

[rustic mountain]

yea i saw that, i just think even still sd is insta access for that

[foggy lodge]

OTS best of 3 ladder in champions

💔

[rustic mountain]

?

[next stump]

poor EU players that have to play Reg F this weekend

brutal

[rustic mountain]

dude la that ladder boutta b dead af

atleast players atm dont have champions out

[versed river]

i gotta play reg I mid may in utrecht 😭

[rustic mountain]

[next stump]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-crying-meme-doggo-crys-megan-soo-crying-dog-gif-5276199764143986284

I just need to finish Orlando and then done with events until Champions live events

[chrome knot]

but in house round robin tours will be so fun for prep in champs

[foggy lodge]

Is showdown down

[versed river]

it is for me

[foggy lodge]

I was mid match and I was going for a hard read

Aw man

[versed river]

seems like cloudflare is down

[shadow wind]

Might’ve been a good thing then

[timber schooner]

Incineroar has lost knock off in pokemon champions

[shadow wind]

We just talked about that for like 20 minutes

[dapper crag]

What NFE mons are even relevant anymore? Besides Dusclops, Porygon 2, Murkrow, Magmar, and Electabuzz

[shadow wind]

Clefairy

Riolu has a niche but it’s a pretty mid niche

[dapper crag]

Friend Guard and Prankster respectively?

I know Murkrow bc Prankster too

[shadow wind]

Prankster coaching and other good supporting moves

Friend guard as well as follow me for Clefairy

[shadow wind]

Clefairy gotta be the most annoying Mon to deal with though

[dapper crag]

I just wonder if Clefairy will STILL outperform Mega Clefable, which I’m now assuming gets Misty Surge

[foggy lodge]

Yes because mega clef takes your mega slot and clefairy doesn't

[dapper crag]

And Misty Surge on a flying mon seems generally counterintuitive even if it supports your ally, especially since you use up your mega

I mean 135 Sp. Atk is decent but it doesn’t exactly have a bright future, doesn’t it?

[versed river]

clefairy is super bulky and slow and gets friend guard and after you

[lunar night]

Togekiss seems like a better option since it’s just Mega Clefable but without a mega slot

[versed river]

refer to my previous message

[lunar night]

oh

[versed river]

they fulfill different roles

[lunar night]

what am i saying

[lunar night]

does Scyther count

[versed river]

it does imo

it won a major this season

[dapper crag]

Yes

[lunar night]

aside from that list + Scyther, Clefairy, and Riolu i can’t think of any others

[versed river]

also eevee will be somewhat relevant if champions reintroduces zmoves at some point

[dapper crag]

Any mon that can evolve anywhere counts

Z-Moves will come back eventually, and yeah Extreme Evoboost is a thing

[lunar night]

probably will, they’ll make smth up like ‘a Z-Move master imported Z-Crystals to the arena’

[molten oasis]

Heheh snow warning froslass I HAVE A NEW SNOW MON BAYBE

[versed river]

i dont remember if pikachus z move was any good

[versed river]

chien pao sucker punch ohkos

[lunar night]

50% defense boost, 100% accurate Blizzards, Aurora Veil

[versed river]

incin walls

[dapper crag]

No because it involves running Pikachu without light ball

[molten oasis]

When does incin not wall it

[versed river]

pao also outspeeds so

[lunar night]

im sure there are counters to it

[molten oasis]

With any snow setter

[versed river]

alolan ninetales

[lunar night]

when does incin not wall any fairy, ice, or psychic types

[versed river]

oh forgot about light ball

incin doesnt resist fairy

[lunar night]

still bulky though

[versed river]

you say it walls fairy with its bulk?

[lunar night]

ah no, just that it’s hard to take down. i haven’t played competitive in a while and all my memories are a single fairy move (moonblast, for example) run on a powerful fairy barely gets it past 80% HP

[molten oasis]

I do 30% with moonblast from a9

And also snow mons play with ground types

And for Pao you can run a fire type too

[versed river]

252+ SpA Choice Specs Protosynthesis Tera Fairy Beads of Ruin Flutter Mane Helping Hand Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Incineroar: 244-288 (120.7 - 142.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

[lunar night]

oh i’ve never run Chi-Yu with Flutter Mane. maybe that’s why

[versed river]

i mean im not saying froslass will be useless im just saying itll be niche unless the format is just right for it to shine

[versed river]

normally chi yu doesnt run helping hand anyways, but this was just to show you can ohko a 252 252+ av incin 😭

[lunar night]

i wonder is past meta megas like Mega Salamance will be able to keep up

[molten oasis]

I dunno about niche

That’s a blizzard spammer that can’t be hit by fake out AND NUKES MEGA MENCE

[versed river]

will depend on the new mega abilities and what mons are legal

[lunar night]

oh lol ye, i just hate Incin bcs of how bulky it is to literally every strat i use. i can never one shot it

[versed river]

lmao

[molten oasis]

and in an early format we likely won’t have things like, chien pao, flutter, shifu

[lunar night]

Mega Glimmora with levitate is smth i wish is possible

[versed river]

thats why i love koraidon flutter you ohko it in and out of tera

[versed river]

i doubt it ngl

itll probably just get toxic debris

[lunar night]

probably, but you never know. i mean, roserade and the scolipede line along with Overqwil got Mortal Spin

you never really know what’s next

[versed river]

they did?

is that in z-a

[molten oasis]

I’m thinking most mons with signature abilities will only get their abilities from before

Bax and Glimmora mostly