competitive_discussion

[regal zinc]

i dont mind all the questions!!! ngl i just feel bad about being a noob so i appreciate everyone's patience with me as i learn for the first time

[stone trellis]

You can have up to two on your team in this current format.

[waxen dock]

maybe use koraidon calyrex or miraidon calyrex

[solid frigate]

Ido and Paul

Stop,let Monke talk through it one at a time

[stone trellis]

Alright.

[bold geode]

Let's not just throw the ideas at em
Honestly first I'd do the research
And then I'd look at the restricted and see which ones are in that list of likes or nah

[dense latch]

don't feel bad, everyone starts somewhere

the current format allows two special legendary pokemon called restricted pokemon https://scarletviolet.pokemon.com/en-us/events/regulation-i/ (take a look here for the full list)

any other pokemon that is not a mythical is fair play

[molten oasis]

https://tenor.com/view/explosion-cat-gif-5858640239144030160

[dense latch]

how familiar are you with how vgc double battles work? are you just going in blind or have some prior knowledge

[bold geode]

No knowledge

I believe they stated this

[bold geode]

@regal zinc this is honestly where I would start

[regal zinc]

my first game was pearl but i only ever played around online in XY/ORAS, nothing serious

[dense latch]

yea i know but no knowledge as "I don't know what the current rules are" or "What is VGC"

[solid frigate]

Kaboom?

[chrome knot]

wha yeah

i got home from work like an hour ago

[molten oasis]

Yes Rico, Kaboom

[bold geode]

Honestly I need a nap
I got like
3 hours at best last night

[regal zinc]

none of the pokemon i like are a restricted

[stone trellis]

VGC players and sleep just don't mix well, do they?

[bold geode]

Weeeeelllllll
We're not starting out strong lol

They're kind of necessary rn

Actually I should've asked
We are looking at doubles or is this singles

[regal zinc]

would doubles or singles be better for a newbie to learn?

[regal zinc]

oh aw man

[bold geode]

Honestly doubles, which is VGC is a lot more mainstream imo

[dense latch]

you would get more help if you start with doubles since all of us play that format

and i believe there's better resources too

[regal zinc]

should i pick some mons from that list then?

[waxen dock]

I think singles

[bold geode]

Probably

Actually um
Do you like any legendaries

Cuz depending on what legendaries you like, there's a chance we can actually zone in on what restricted can be best

[regal zinc]

the only ones i have right now are miraidon and terapagos

unless im able to obtain others somehow? i also have PLA

[waxen dock]

Actually its an ok dou

There is a terapagos miraidon team

[dense latch]

idk how beginner friendly mirai pagos is though

[bold geode]

You got the strong bike, fuck yeah

[stone trellis]

Yes, you can trade for the others.

[dense latch]

miraidon is a strong ass start though

arguably the best pokemon in the game rn

[stone trellis]

And if not, it is definitely in the top 3.

[bold geode]

Do you like any of the future paradox Pokemon?

[waxen dock]

https://pokepast.es/937d52cf84a051de

[regal zinc]

i haven't been able to play much pkm on the switch but my friends pitched in to get me a lite, and im borrowing violet+PLA since those friends dont play pkm anymore just finished dlcs recently too— honestly having the time of my life with current pokemon today

[regal zinc]

IRON VALIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bold geode]

Oh no

[stone trellis]

Based Valiant enjoyer.

[regal zinc]

iron valiant gender

[bold geode]

Not the worst but uh
Not the cream of the crop

[regal zinc]

aw

[dense latch]

i guess mirai valiant calyrex ice is something that can work

[bold geode]

Any others

Wait
Do you like Iron Hands or Iron Treads

[waxen dock]

I made a i val cal ice and miraidon team

[regal zinc]

not really :(

if i had to pick others besides valiant uhhh

[bold geode]

Damn

[regal zinc]

moth or jugulis

are cool

[stone trellis]

Look, can I be honest about something for a second?

[bold geode]

Juggy pog

[dense latch]

jugulis is decent

[bold geode]

Iron Juilius

[waxen dock]

https://pokepast.es/4b369a7ffc296045

[bold geode]

Orange Jugulis

[dense latch]

iron moth is rly bad tho

[regal zinc]

im a newbie to all of this so everyone can be as honest as necessary 👍

[dense latch]

volcarona is really good right now at least

[stone trellis]

There are some Pokemon that you may not like at first, but they can definitely grow on you over time.

[dense latch]

and that's pretty close to iron moth right

[waxen dock]

Its an ok tailwind mon

[bold geode]

This

[dense latch]

some of my favorite pokemon came from me using them in vgc

[stone trellis]

I thought Ice Rider Calyrex was mid and then I actually started using it.

[solid frigate]

dude you are looking at SWSH CIR

[regal zinc]

im sentimental abt pokemon that i grew up playing w pretty much and i know my favs are probably pretty much mid to others ig?

[bold geode]

Like
Honestly being able to play with the favs right away can be extremely hard considering well
Some favs are cheeks
But like
Low-key I'd try other mons you might not be strong towards cuz actually
They can grow on you personally speaking

I'd personally at least also try to learn the game with other mons first though too cuz knowledge can help later with using those favs

[regal zinc]

the most i gaf abt competitive was when i heard abt that guy winning with pachirisu when i was a kid

[waxen dock]

It was 11 years ago i think

[regal zinc]

oldge

if i had to pick two pokemon from my favs rn... azumarill + pawmot? if they could even do anything?

[dense latch]

no sadly

[regal zinc]

[dense latch]

do you like volcarona? you mentioned you liked iron moth and they're pretty close

volcarona has seen some great deal of usage recently, it's also a very fun mon to use

[regal zinc]

i do like volcarona, though i dont have one rn— i have a larvesta i could lvl up?

im a sucker for anything gen5

[bold geode]

That works
Hol up we're getting somewhere

[dense latch]

i think you should get comfortable with showdown, it allows you to play with any pokemon at any time

without having to do the whole ev training and leveling up part

[regal zinc]

is showdown hard to use on mobile?

[dense latch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJQsZrHgL14&ab_channel=TheDelybird

[bold geode]

Harder but definitely not like
Increasingly difficult

[dense latch]

yeah

[bold geode]

Only issue is if you have fat fingers

[solid frigate]

not again

[solid frigate]

LMAO

[foggy lodge]

random question but does anyone know the theme that sounds at 4:30? https://youtu.be/p6f2D5ZgLZ8?si=hBCWYjtSsUCshKgk

[dense latch]

do have a look at this video

[foggy lodge]

and I haven't finished the video but its obviously Amoonguss

[dense latch]

pokeball factory from x and y

[foggy lodge]

Thx!!

[dense latch]

it's a banger

[regal zinc]

so should i be working on the pokemon i have in game right now? or setting up showdown?

[waxen dock]

It also the pwer plant music

[waxen dock]

Showdown

[solid frigate]

showdown is pretty easy to setup

Recommend to do Showdown-> ingame

[stone trellis]

Second place is probably Gengar.

Anyway, I am once again asking for your help to choose who will be on the sixth team slot.

[dense latch]

actually your team is kinda starting to look like dillon's team

https://pokepast.es/264c389e4a878eaf for reference

i suppose you could use smeargle over ogerpon if you want to make your team slightly different

[stone trellis]

Having both Smeargle and Clefairy on a team is a bit much, is it not?

Maybe I could forgo Follow Me on Smeargle and go for something else.

But then I don't have access to the Focus Sash since Urshifu has it.

[solid frigate]

its too passive

[dense latch]

yea, i think that's what i said earlier

[stone trellis]

I'd much rather go for a supporter that has an actual offensive presence like Volcarona.

Then again, I don't know.

Do I just go with Volcarona?

It's either it or Pelipper, and I would love to be able to use Wide Guard.

[foggy lodge]

I think Smeargle just doesn't synergise that well with Mirai

[stone trellis]

Spore?

[spiral ridge]

Me shitting myself as the Miraidon gets its third decorate

[foggy lodge]

Lmao

[stone trellis]

"Fire resists Ice!" MFs when a +6 Glacial Lance hits their Incineroar:

[foggy lodge]

But yeah it loses the spore and unlike amoonguss it isn't that bulky to go in and out and tank hits

Having fake out is nice tho

[stone trellis]

Smeargle is the only good non-restricted which has both Fake Out and Wide Guard.

Hitmontop is the next best choice and I don't think I need to explain why I'm not touching that.

[foggy lodge]

Mienshao xd

[stone trellis]

Three Fighting types and a Dragon type in one team?

It feels like Iron Valiant is just my best choice here.

Screw it, bulky Volcarona forever.

[molten oasis]

what are we cooking today

[stone trellis]

I'm trying to make a CIR-Scarf Miraidon team and I genuinely cannot find a good sixth member for my team.

[molten oasis]

what are your 5 currently

[stone trellis]

So far we have Calyrex, Miraidon, Urshifu-Rapid, Iron Hands and Clefairy.

[molten oasis]

clefairy?

why not any ogerpon form

[stone trellis]

After You in Trick Room.

[dense latch]

you have a calyrex ice

[molten oasis]

its a CIR team waht???

[dense latch]

i really only think clefairy is good next to calyrex shadow

[stone trellis]

I have PTSD from Amoonguss Sporing my entire team, alright?

[molten oasis]

YOU HAVE MIRAIDON

[stone trellis]

You know that Alex Jones clip?

[dense latch]

also

[molten oasis]

ogerpon ALSO redirects spores for you

[dense latch]

ogerpon would let you redirect spores

[stone trellis]

I'm actually stupid as hell.

[molten oasis]

and then like for a 6th, grimmsnarl, farigiraf, incin

lando

[stone trellis]

Farigiraf seems pretty good here because it can block priority moves.

[molten oasis]

volc

theres options here

[stone trellis]

Which Ogerpon should I run?

[dense latch]

rock

[molten oasis]

i think generally hearth is best with mirai

[stone trellis]

Arubega would be proud.

[molten oasis]

is there anything you're struggling wtih specifically?

[stone trellis]

I do not know, I haven't completed the team yet.

[molten oasis]

imo start with hearth

shifu hearth is a pretty strong duo

pairs well with mirai

[stone trellis]

What should its Grass move be?

[molten oasis]

wood hammer or horn leech, could also forgo grass coverage for taunt

[stone trellis]

I'll use Horn Leech, but I will also look into Taunt.

[solid frigate]

For Hearthflame you do need Grass type

Wellspring is optional

[stone trellis]

And come to think of it, Hearthflame can also block Will-o-Wisps from whatever schizo still runs that move.

Does Ogerpon on this kind of team run more bulk or more speed?

[molten oasis]

bulk

[solid frigate]

In these teams you can just forgo speed for Bulk

[foggy lodge]

@dense latch probably a very specific question but do you know if Riopaser's tera tealpon outspeed the scarf miraidon?

[dense latch]

would most likely have to be jolly max speed

and im pretty sure he ran adamant based on the damage it was doing

[stone trellis]

I made Ogerpon bulky enough to withstand a Helping Hand-boosted Astral Barrage from Life Orb CSR.

That should be enough bulk, right?

Draco Meteor from Specs Modest Miraidon still OHKOs, unfortunately 😔

Should Farigiraf run Tera Water too?

Nevermind, literally 2/3 of my team runs the same Tera Type.

Volcarona it is.

[molten oasis]

i like water, fairy, or dark for fari

[stone trellis]

Fairy seems better, yeah.

Should I give it Helping Hand?

[foggy lodge]

Fs

Farigiraf is a dead slot way too many times if it doesn't have helping hand

Btw random question for debate but what do y'all think has been the most dominant team in VGC

[molten oasis]

ever?

uh

[stone trellis]

As far as I've heard, it's probably between Big Six and SwordFish.

[molten oasis]

palafin balance in reg c ig. idk

[foggy lodge]

I think rinya sun was more dominant than swordfish

[stone trellis]

Though I'm way too new to be certain of that.

[stone trellis]

Oh yeah, that.

[foggy lodge]

Still none of both ended in finals at worlds so

I think it would be between big six, chalk or arubega

[stone trellis]

CHALK dominated exactly one tournament, didn't it?

[foggy lodge]

And chalk can be discarded because chalk often varies a lot of the mons on it

[foggy lodge]

From worlds onwards

Because the format of 2014 was from january to january

And worlds was in august

[stone trellis]

Yeah, I guess you're right.

[foggy lodge]

But yeah I would say its between big six and arubega

[stone trellis]

Alright, I think my team is finished.

https://pokepast.es/182608994fc5291c

Are there any notable weaknesses this team has?

[molten oasis]

big six?

you're doing leech seed CIR, why not do grimmsnarl

be more annoying

[stone trellis]

Primal Groudon, Xerneas, Bronzong/Talonflame, Mega Kangaskhan, Mega Salamence and Smeargle.

[molten oasis]

oh ic

[stone trellis]

Bet.

[solid frigate]

Arubega or Big Six

They are in upper half i think

like in dominant

[stone trellis]

Big Six only failed at winning Worlds because two of the people in the top four that year literally made a team just to counter it.

And some guy ran dual Primals.

[solid frigate]

but its still arugbly more dominant than Arubega despite winning worlds

[stone trellis]

Yeah, that's what I am saying.

[stone trellis]

"Dance if your the GOAT"
White Goblin the Grimmsnarl:

https://tenor.com/view/why-did-he-hit-every-beat-idksterling-fortnite-fortnite-dance-fortnite-memes-gif-11607128165410485782

[astral fulcrum]

hi im new to competive pokemon i have no experience what so ever and want to get into if someone could help me out that be greatly appreciated

[dense latch]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2025regi-2397533072-dxuc4q755ugfmoicd2lxa3ad00eyk68pw i love volcarona

[dense latch]

are you looking to get started in singles or doubles?

[astral fulcrum]

doubles

[dense latch]

the pinned messages have great resources

Here is a list of all of the resources I find most helpful when playing/learning VGC:

https://www.vgcguide.com/ (Helpful website for basics and also to get your feet wet)

https://www.pikalytics.com/ (Shows you usage data and helps you build Pokémon)

https://nerd-of-now.github.io/NCP-VGC-Damage-Calculator/ (Damage calculator that is very helpful when building teams or reflecting on games)

https://youtube.com/c/CybertronVGC (Best channel for daily VGC content, guiding you through the thought process you need for success)

https://victoryroadvgc.com/ (Tournament results, team reports and breakdowns, and rental codes can be found here)

https://twitter.com/VGCPastes - Tournament and high ranked teams

https://twitter.com/vgccorner - Helpful Twitter account that posts in-depth EV spreads and ideas about competitive pokemon

There are dozens of other resources, some of which are in the pinned messages of this channel. But these IMO are the best places to start absorbing knowledge and getting to a place where you're comfortable with VGC

here's the pinned with the most resources that are really helpful when starting off

[strange juniper]

removed the embeds so it's less of a wall

[dense latch]

tyty 😭

[gentle crag]

eriksp has given 1 Gen Rep to bgoproton

[stone trellis]

Does anyone have the Pokepaste link for a hard TR team?

I'm going to try using that after the Miraidon-CIR team.

[near crag]

Y’all think eternatus could be competitively viable?

[stone trellis]

It's really niche, but it does have its uses.

[bold geode]

Thx lol

[gentle crag]

dollarmonke has given 1 Gen Rep to bgoproton

[bold geode]

It's like
Meh

[stone trellis]

What do they even run besides the obvious Necrozma-DW/CIR/Oranguru core?

[dense latch]

monke does the embed feature prevent it from becoming a text wall? idk how to do that though

[dense latch]

https://pokepast.es/65fb865c388a611e this is the most common hard tr core

[stone trellis]

No Wide Guard on Lunala?

And psyspam?

Man, this shit is too cringe even for me.

[dense latch]

also not great this format

[stone trellis]

Only 1/3 of this team is viable.

And even the viable ones run these cringe-ass sets.

I'll stick to the team I've already made.

[lofty tartan]

Profitable eevee community day

15 shiny Eevee one shiny Flareon.

One Hundo reg Eevee. 3x 3* shiny Eevee. Shiny female 3 star Eevee.

Tomorrow should be sick too

[solid frigate]

Mika is gonna summon the shiny Eevee Squadron

[lofty tartan]

I am.

[solid frigate]

i only have 2 shiny zacian from the go fest

[lofty tartan]

I didn't get any shiny Zacs but I only did 5 raids.

I've been just now getting back into Go.

[solid frigate]

i did like almost 20 raids for Zacian and Zama

and only Zacs are shinies

[lofty tartan]

Yeah sounds about right. 1/20 shiny odds.

I did some regidrago and Cobalion raids too

[chrome knot]

honk

[lofty tartan]

Picked up some mega Aggrons

Used them to take over the city that I work

[molten oasis]

Lmao

[solid frigate]

Aggron nations press forward

[lofty tartan]

Bangor, ME got hit with a red wave

Aggron sweeps Gyms left and right

Especially Mega

[molten oasis]

I love aggron

I just wish the mon was better in vgc

[lofty tartan]

Aggron is one of my top ten faves

[stone trellis]

Let's hope bro actually becomes viable with Body Press and Mega Evolution.

[tiny karma]

Ability: Filter

This Pokemon receives 3/4 damage from supereffective attacks.

Sableye version 4.28.2

[lofty tartan]

He's so cool

[molten oasis]

Damn

[tiny karma]

Pokémon No. 306: Aggron-Mega

Type

Steel

Abilities

Filter

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

70/140/230/60/80/50

Total

630

Base Species

Aggron

Sableye version 4.28.2

[molten oasis]

Damn

[solid frigate]

bro is just worse Zama

[stone trellis]

This is almost a Gen 9 stat spread.

[stone trellis]

Tends to happen when you have 70 less points in your stat total.

[solid frigate]

not really

[stone trellis]

And you're not a restricted.

And you don't get STAB on your main way of attacking.

And you're way frailer on the special side.

[solid frigate]

Zama's Spread disturbution is way better than Mega Aggron

If Mega Aggron has body press and has Zama's spread its better than rn

Heck i would use it over Zama cuz why not

like BST idc but if Mega Aggron has Zama's spread but slower

[stone trellis]

Yeah, Aggron suffers from Shuckle Syndrome.

Imagine if those 50 points invested in his Defense went to his Special Defense instead.

Boom, now you are surviving damn near everything.

Even Collision Course from max Attack Adamant Life Orb Koraidon in sun only ever KOs 31,25% of the time.

[lofty tartan]

Don't care. He's still cool.

[solid frigate]

Close Combat:

[stone trellis]

Close Combat is weaker.

Collision Course gets the 4/3 boost because it's super effective.

[solid frigate]

you run lorb anyways

its rarer to run Collision Course with Lorb due to inconsistency

[stone trellis]

I was looking at Koraidon's strongest super effective move which it could reasonably run.

I was doing it just to prove that even without those extra 50 points in its Defense, Aggron is surviving almost everything.

[solid frigate]

nothing an electric bike can't fix

[stone trellis]

Yeah, nothing except for the cold and intimidating horse in the back which happens to run Tera Fire.

Now you have to double target it if you want to get a KO and you're just fucked at that point.

By the way, my near full health Ursaluna got dropped by a -3 Draco from Specs Miraidon once. Is that even possible?

[solid frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/dan-heng-hsr-honkai-star-rail-ult-whatever-go-my-scarab-gif-17680743539652752233

[stone trellis]

It had taken exactly one turn of burn damage and it still got OHKO'd.

It boggles my mind to this day.

[solid frigate]

unless a crit btw

[stone trellis]

It was not a crit.

I was about to actually crash out.

[solid frigate]

-3 252+ SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Miraidon Draco Meteor vs. -2 140 HP / 68 SpD Ursaluna: 222-262 (99.5 - 117.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO (guaranteed OHKO after burn damage)

The only way i see it happened

[stone trellis]

It wasn't -2.

Does it KO neutral Ursaluna after a Helping Hand?

[solid frigate]

no

[stone trellis]

Yeah, that shit was hacked.

[solid frigate]

are you sure its -3

Cuz there is no way you can get to minus 3 if you don't have Moonblast or spirit break

[stone trellis]

It had already used a Draco and my Incineroar had clicked Snarl right after that.

[solid frigate]

did you even checked your fucking ursaluna did not click Headlong

Cuz hacking in Pokemon especiallyy in stat wise is impossible

[stone trellis]

No.

I had protected on its first turn to get Flame Orb to activate.

Maybe it was a crit and I just didn't notice because I was about to leave my brain all over the wall.

The worst part is that I would've won if I had survived that.

[solid frigate]

-8ball Should i use Greninja in this format rn

[gentle crag]

Should i use Greninja in this format rn
:8ball: Don't count on it

[solid frigate]

bruh

[stone trellis]

-8ball Should I try using a hard TR team tomorrow?

Why doesn't it work?

[dense latch]

you need to reach a higher server level

[stone trellis]

Oh.

[dense latch]

idk exactly how high you have to be though

-8ball can i use you yet

nope

[stone trellis]

Crap.

[molten oasis]

-8ball is Zac Mirai good

[gentle crag]

is Zac Mirai good
:8ball: As I see it, yes

[molten oasis]

-8ball is zacogre good

[gentle crag]

is zacogre good
:8ball: It is certain

[molten oasis]

-8ball is it better than Mirai

[gentle crag]

is it better than Mirai
:8ball: You may rely on it

[molten oasis]

Fuck

[stone trellis]

Yo Drago, can you ask 8ball if I should try running hard Trick Room?

[lofty tartan]

Finally

[molten oasis]

-8ball should Paul run hard tr

[gentle crag]

should Paul run hard tr
:8ball: Concentrate and ask again

[molten oasis]

-8ball answer

[gentle crag]

answer
:8ball: Outlook not so good

[stone trellis]

Thanks for that.

[solid frigate]

i forgot how good shiny cobalion look

[chrome knot]

-8ball compete @ pitts?

[gentle crag]

compete @ pitts?
:8ball: It is decidedly so

[chrome knot]

-8ball will the format be fun?

[gentle crag]

will the format be fun?
:8ball: Without a doubt

[chrome knot]

hmmmmm

[dense latch]

8ball doesnt lie

[molten oasis]

But what shall the format be

-8ball will I enjoy next format

[gentle crag]

will I enjoy next format
:8ball: Better not tell you now

[stone trellis]

I hope it allows mythicals.

[molten oasis]

-8ball would I enjoy vgc2018 more

[gentle crag]

would I enjoy vgc2018 more
:8ball: It is certain

[molten oasis]

Damn ok time to hit top 50

[dense latch]

time to teambuild 2018 then

i havent found a good team yet

[molten oasis]

I play mence fini incin kartana rn

[lofty tartan]

Same but it's really nice

[solid frigate]

i think i like the blue on it

Blue shinies are overall good imo

[dense latch]

do you have a paste if u dont mind sharing?

[molten oasis]

https://pokepast.es/c121dd66f8588b56

Should probably go muddy water over scald but I haven’t had issues with it so far

On fini

[dense latch]

thanks

vgc 18 is crazy with these intimidate mons lol

[solid frigate]

intimidate is way stronger than in present

its almost annoying lmao

[dense latch]

lol

no accuracy drops or anything

[solid frigate]

me when rock slide

[molten oasis]

Dude those berries are stacked

Like they heal so much it’s wild

[dense latch]

idk how they were even allowed lmao

[molten oasis]

Yea fs

[dense latch]

i wonder how they'd fit in this calyrex meta

i feel like they're busted enough to warrant usage despite unnerve

[molten oasis]

If they were that stacked still, maybe yea

[dense latch]

scarf lando + mence is goated

[molten oasis]

It is

So much pressure, I like Mence a lot

[dense latch]

im having a fair bit of fun with this format

[molten oasis]

I want to get naganadel or mega Luca working

[dense latch]

i've played like three perish teams already lol

[molten oasis]

Naganadel’s one of my favorite mons and Luca is something I’m looking at for future vgc

Inner focus buff is huge for it

[solid frigate]

Naganadel is quite impressive imo

[dense latch]

the intim block w inner focus woulda been huge for vgc 18

[molten oasis]

Yea cuz

Dude, the amount of fucking intimidate is insane

Every team has incin or lando or mence, or 2 of them or all 3

[lofty tartan]

Been a good day

[solid frigate]

Short boi

[chrome knot]

honk

[molten oasis]

Nice Mika

[solid frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/di-goose-honk-honk-angry-honk-honk-gif-17648939470482040238

[dense latch]

lol

[solid frigate]

Incin when

[lost sun]

140 BP move
jumps left and right

[craggy swan]

Real

[jade dust]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2025regi-2397786179

Ogerpon carried so hard in this game

[stone trellis]

Should my Urshifu be max Speed Jolly or max Speed Adamant?

It has the Focus Sash on, so I don't outspeed CSR with it anyway.

Adamant with Tera Water allows me to OHKO bulky Volcarona 83% of the time even through a burn with Surging Strikes.

[solid frigate]

Adamant

jolly kinda does not serve purpose on sash

[stone trellis]

Thanks.

https://pokepast.es/fadaae55809825d2

This is the full team.

I still don't know if Farigiraf would be better than Grimmsnarl.

Farig has Helping Hand, which turns a lot of moves into OHKOs.

[waxen dock]

I think farigiraf is better

[stone trellis]

Yeah, it makes a lot of matchups way easier.

Disabling Fake Out and every Prankster move seems pretty great.

I even get a secondary way of setting up TR if Calyrex wants to do something else that turn.

[real prairie]

@bold geode happy birthday!

[dense latch]

happy birthday monke

[bold geode]

Thank you

[gentle crag]

dollarmonke has given 1 Gen Rep to oneofakindof

[bold geode]

Thank y'all

[stone trellis]

Happy birthday, monke.

[molten oasis]

Love going 0-3 on 2018 loaded because all my opponents have tr

[stone trellis]

Whoever first said that Tera Stellar gives a 20% boost to all moves the first time they're used is a big fat liar.

(It's 33%)

I noticed this because Tera Stellar Surging Strikes does the exact same damage as Tera Water Surging Strikes.

[molten oasis]

0-4 fuck my life

[stone trellis]

Do you not have a good TR counter?

No Taunt, no Pokemon which does well inside of TR?

[waxen dock]

Maybe its 33% to stab and 20% to normal moves

[stone trellis]

Yeah, that seems to be the case.

But everyone keeps acting as if it's a flat 20% boost to everything, regardless of whether or not it gets STAB.

I would've personally made it so that the boost to non-STAB moves is 50% instead.

[waxen dock]

That will be to op

Too

[stone trellis]

Why?

[waxen dock]

Because its multiple teras at once

[stone trellis]

Oh right, Stellar Terapagos gets omni STAB then.

[solid frigate]

when stellar starstorm is ass unless is +2

[dapper crag]

can someone help me make a competitive team for scarlet and violet

[solid frigate]

on what format

[dapper crag]

i have violet

[stone trellis]

First of all, are you playing singles or doubles?

[dapper crag]

doubles

[dense latch]

what restricteds do you want to use

[dapper crag]

im mean for violet the game its self not show down

so whatever the restrictions are rn

[dense latch]

restricted as in restricted legendary pokemon

[dapper crag]

btw im in S/V union circle 1 vc

[dense latch]

you currently get to use two per team

[dapper crag]

ok so 2

tbh im just dipping my toes in to com

comp

[next stump]

https://scarletviolet.pokemon.com/en-us/events/regulation-i/

check out this article to learn the ruleset

[dapper crag]

ok but will one of you help me make one

[next stump]

sure but you gotta give us something to work with lol, like a restricted legendary that you want to build around

[dapper crag]

@next stump ok but can we vc rn if you are not busy

[next stump]

sorry I'm not home

[dense latch]

we can help through chat

[dapper crag]

ok

[dense latch]

but this, if you give us some pokemon (especially a restricted) you'd want to use that makes the process much easier

[dapper crag]

ok im looking rn

ok i want to build a team centered around miraidon and ogerpon

if thats possible

[stone trellis]

Ogerpon is not even a restricted legendary, but Miraidon is very good, so you can pair it with a lot of things.

[dapper crag]

ok i just like ogerpon and i know its broken so i want it on my team

[dense latch]

okay, what form?

[solid frigate]

f o o d

[dapper crag]

anything but cornerstone

[solid frigate]

cornerstone is the best one lmao

[dense latch]

also miraidon tends to pair well mainly with calyrex ice, lunala, and zamazenta as its partner restricted

so choose what you'd enjoy the most

[dapper crag]

i have none of those

[stone trellis]

Do you have the DLC for Violet?

If so, then you should be able to get Lunala.

[dense latch]

they should if they have ogerpon

[dapper crag]

but can i get calyrex ice throug blueberry

[dense latch]

only glastrier i believe

[stone trellis]

Unfortunately not.

[dapper crag]

rip

i dont have sword dlc

[next lynx]

Trade for it

[stone trellis]

You can trade to get Calyrex, but it will take some time.

[dapper crag]

so i guess lunala where do you find lunala in paldea i have the snack alr

[dense latch]

find a guide on youtube

[stone trellis]

It's near Porto Marinada if I can recall.

[dapper crag]

alr

do i want to try and get good ivs

[stone trellis]

Yeah, the only thing you should care about is having minimum Attack IVs.

[dapper crag]

ok so no good

[dense latch]

yeah

[stone trellis]

Yes.

[dapper crag]

ok

[stone trellis]

Just save right before you start the battle with it.

[dense latch]

you can max other IVs later with bottle caps

[dapper crag]

give me a min

im just going to master it

i have 4

[stone trellis]

So you should be good.

[dapper crag]

whats right above no good

[stone trellis]

Decent.

[dapper crag]

ok

[stone trellis]

Decent is anywhere from 1-14.

[dapper crag]

is it ok if its attack is decent

[stone trellis]

Yes.

[dapper crag]

ok

[stone trellis]

Foul Play is pretty rare and it rarely does enough to threaten special attackers who are on the bulkier side.

Would you like me to tell you about the sets Lunala likes to run?

[dapper crag]

paul can you join s/v union circle 1

the vc and yes

[stone trellis]

No, I can't.

[dapper crag]

oh ok

[stone trellis]

Actually, I might.

[dapper crag]

ok bet

i got decent

@dense latch i got lunala

[dense latch]

cool

https://pokepast.es/6ab4ec5d4c88a0a5 here's an example of a miraidon lunala team

[stone trellis]

This is the closest we'll get to a Big Six in Gen 9.

"I want to only use the strongest Pokemon!" ass team what the hell is this 😭

[craggy swan]

It’s actually so good tho

[stone trellis]

I know.

[craggy swan]

Trying to rage quit when facing the big six

[stone trellis]

I'm just joking about how this team is basically what singles glazers think every restricted format is like.

[craggy swan]

Singles doesn’t look fun

[stone trellis]

Yeah, in singles all you do is 252/252/4.

VGC has the schizophrenic EV spreads.

[craggy swan]

Stealth rock and webs 🤢

[solid frigate]

in all due respect

I don't have opinions on singles because i have played it

But calling Single players as singles Glazers is no different from being Doubles Glazers

[stone trellis]

The difference between singles players and singles glazers is simple.

Singles players just play singles because they like it, while singles glazers soy out every time VGC is even mentioned and ramble on about how restricted formats have no creativity and everyone uses the same Pokemon like they didn't just make the millionth team that includes Kingambit, Gholdengo, Zamazenta or Iron Valiant.

[waxen dock]

fake out and intimidate🤮

[stone trellis]

Basically, singles players are normal people and glazers are YouTube commenters.

[solid frigate]

i would just fairly simple

Don't interact with that topic

[craggy swan]

252 in the 2 main stats and spam 1 move🤢

[solid frigate]

how can we tell them someone got 3rd with stealth rocks

[craggy swan]

In 2v2s?

[solid frigate]

yes

[craggy swan]

Did they use webs

[stone trellis]

Congratulations to them.

[craggy swan]

Point still stands

[solid frigate]

its more like use that move in right conditions

Not label them as a singles moves

hell randbats doubles uses Sticky webs as well

[next lynx]

Is toxic stall using in the right conditions

[solid frigate]

technically

Yes.

[molten oasis]

[solid frigate]

also no matter singles or doubles

you have counterplay to those stuff

its not impossible

examine A,Muk smeragle

Evasion buffs let Muk basically unhittable

Counterplay
Rain+Hurricane,Bleakwind,Sandsear,Wildbolt
Taunt(Not prankster)
Fake out (Doubles)

[stone trellis]

I once faced one of those teams and I had zero knowledge of what the fuck it was trying to do, so I lost miserably.

[solid frigate]

thatsyour problem,not the player

[stone trellis]

I know.

I just wanted to share that fact.

[craggy swan]

What team do you run?

[left bobcat]

Koraidon

[solid frigate]

Miraidon Kyogre
Koraidon Lunala

[foggy lodge]

https://victoryroad.pro/vr-jul25/

Mirai pagos won

Ayo its meteor beam pagos wtf lol

[dense latch]

mirai amoong incin ursh core might be busted

[foggy lodge]

It is

I think that core can actually win worlds

It gives you neutral MUs into most of the meta

[stone trellis]

Only issue is Spore being disabled by Electric Terrain.

[foggy lodge]

Kinda how arubega mirai worked

[dense latch]

even then

most players with rilla will bring it and that’ll free up spore

can also work in the early game when mirai hasn’t come out yet

[foggy lodge]

Late game too

When the terrain just disappears

[dense latch]

incin and amoong is an insane defensive backbone

[stone trellis]

What partner is better for that sort of team, Lunala or CIR?

[dense latch]

cir

[foggy lodge]

And its just very bulky and the ability to pivot between Amoong Inci and Mirai lets you create very defensive pivoting to manage almost everything

[stone trellis]

Say less.

There's only one Pokemon that I need to figure out.

[foggy lodge]

Someone got top 16 at Portland with Lunala Mirai and Amoonguss but idk its a very passive team lol

[stone trellis]

I just need a second offensive non-restricted.

Baller Hands:

[dense latch]

i’d just try the mdb six and work from there off comfort

it’s got a matchup into everything

[stone trellis]

I can't find the Pokepaste link for it.

[dense latch]

2nd place

you can go to mdb’s twitch stream vods and check the HP to sort of infer the EVs

[stone trellis]

I don't have Twitch.

I just need to know who the team members are and what Tera Types and items they use.

[dense latch]

https://pokepast.es/121b83d271e53758

[stone trellis]

Alright, now we're talking.

[stone trellis]

Should Lando be Modest or Timid?

Modest OHKOs most Zamazenta.

[dense latch]

modest

iirc it’s a pretty bulky lando

228 HP EVs

[stone trellis]

What is even the point in making it so bulky?

[foggy lodge]

Take hits :v

[stone trellis]

It's not taking any hits if it wants to do damage, man.

[foggy lodge]

Its the same reason why Flutter would run a lot of bulk in most formats xd

https://x.com/NikolajHoej/status/1941931470022431168

NIkolaj Høj Nielsen (@NikolajHoej)

I got another top cut in Victory Road. Lost to @MichaelderBeste in the top 16. One day I'll find a way to beat him. Here's a funny clip from the game – “Is he insane?”

X · Jul 6, 2025, 6:45 PM

[stone trellis]

Except Flutter didn't have to deal with two restricteds and one of the most powerful non-restricted Pokemon being able to OHKO it without even trying.

[foggy lodge]

Except it did lol

[dense latch]

that’s a sick play ngl

[foggy lodge]

In reg I it just runs sash because Koraidon is very popular so you can just slot it

[dense latch]

i think he did it twice lmao

[foggy lodge]

Did it work twice

But yeah its a crazy read

[dense latch]

it did

[foggy lodge]

Lmao

[dense latch]

mdb’s stream was crazy today he hit 700 viewers

[stone trellis]

I don't have Twitter. What did bro do?

[dense latch]

nikolaj faked out his own miraidon when mdb protected with both mons

[bold geode]

That's an insane fucking play

[chilly anvil]

What is better on Grimmisnarl:
Parting Shot or Thunder Wave?

[foggy lodge]

Twave

[bold geode]

Like I know it's insane he went for it, but like
Crazy you even find that play

[foggy lodge]

Yeah

[stone trellis]

The best spread I could find for Landorus was 228 HP / 60 Def / 148 SpA / 68 SpD / 4 Spe.

The HP and Special Defense are there so it can survive an Astral Barrage from Spell Tag max SpA Tera Ghost CSR.

[bold geode]

Nobody really runs that now iirc

[stone trellis]

The Special Attack is just enough to guarantee that Earth Power OHKOs 100 HP / 4 SpD Zamazenta and the Defense and Speed investments are just there because they needed to go somewhere.

[stone trellis]

It's even better against Life Orb Tera Dark.

252 SpA Life Orb Calyrex-Shadow Astral Barrage vs. 228 HP / 68 SpD Landorus: 133-156 (68.9 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[bold geode]

Yeah but thing is
If Lorb doesn't hit as hard as the calc you had, you can honestly lower the special investment a bit and put it more into Spatk or Speed or physical defense

[stone trellis]

Should I take away some of those points to make it slightly more powerful or nah?

[bold geode]

Absolutely
I mean
Check Miraidon Draco calcs first

[foggy lodge]

How much does draco av do

[stone trellis]

212+ SpA Hadron Engine Miraidon Draco Meteor vs. 228 HP / 68 SpD Landorus: 180-213 (93.2 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

[bold geode]

Yeah those calcs are shaky anyways so

Do you have like Screens or other terrain?

[foggy lodge]

Uhh it's a roll atleast

[stone trellis]

This team doesn't have Screens.

[bold geode]

Do you have any terrain setters

[stone trellis]

Yeah, I have Miraidon.

I'm using Michael Kelsch's team.

[bold geode]

Ok so we're not making other Mirai weaker

[foggy lodge]

Its scarf w snarl

But idk if snarl line into the other Miraidon is consistent

[bold geode]

Ok then yeah I'd just lower the bulk for Lorb CSR and add it to another stat

[foggy lodge]

It forces a 50/50

[stone trellis]

Sure.

[bold geode]

Like sure you have a roll, but 5/8 KO chance is really shaky

Like with those numbers you're kind of gonna lose the roll too often for it to matter

[stone trellis]

Even with 0 points in Special Defense, It's still surviving.

[foggy lodge]

50/50 roll would be okay

It wouldn't be consistent but you know maybe it comes into play sometimes

[bold geode]

50/50 would require more bulk

What Tera is it?

[stone trellis]

50/50 needs 76 points.

[foggy lodge]

Poison

[stone trellis]

I'll go with either Steel or Poison.

[bold geode]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Check Volt Switch calc with tera on the Lando

From Mirai

[stone trellis]

Specs or AV?

[foggy lodge]

It should survive it well

[stone trellis]

212+ SpA Hadron Engine Miraidon Volt Switch vs. 228 HP / 76 SpD Tera Poison Landorus in Electric Terrain: 126-148 (65.2 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[bold geode]

Specs

[stone trellis]

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Miraidon Volt Switch vs. 228 HP / 76 SpD Tera Poison Landorus in Electric Terrain: 192-226 (99.4 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

[bold geode]

Jesus

[stone trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-try-not-to-laugh-gif-7682731162751353849

[foggy lodge]

I would run more physical bulk

To take Rillaboom/Ogerpons

[bold geode]

I'm tryna think if there's any other special calcs to keep in mind

[dense latch]

how much is specs gleam doing

[stone trellis]

Through Tera or normally?

[dense latch]

normally

[foggy lodge]

+1 Tera starstorm

[stone trellis]

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Miraidon Dazzling Gleam vs. 228 HP / 76 SpD Landorus: 85-100 (44 - 51.8%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO

[dense latch]

that’s pretty good

[bold geode]

I'm smoking a bit
Check Icy Wind from Bundle

[foggy lodge]

Nah it dies

Pretty sure it dies

[stone trellis]

+1 252+ SpA Terapagos-Stellar Tera Starstorm vs. 228 HP / 76 SpD Landorus: 110-131 (56.9 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[bold geode]

You'd actually be surprised me thinks

[foggy lodge]

Is it terastallized pagos?

[stone trellis]

252 SpA Iron Bundle Icy Wind vs. 228 HP / 76 SpD Landorus: 148-180 (76.6 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[foggy lodge]

damn

[bold geode]

I knew it could live lol

Landorus Therian can survive it

Cuz when Landorus Therian was around, I ran a set that could live that

[stone trellis]

Therian and Incarnate have the same bulk.

[foggy lodge]

I would check non tera +1 tera starstorm

[dense latch]

what about baby pagos tera starstorm at +1

[foggy lodge]

Cuz it does more damage than terastallized pagos

[stone trellis]

+1 252+ SpA Terapagos Tera Starstorm vs. 228 HP / 76 SpD Landorus: 118-141 (61.1 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[foggy lodge]

Yeah its a good roll

[stone trellis]

Yeah, it survives almost every single special attack ever, but it does not live a single strong physical attack.

[foggy lodge]

I would lower spd and put it into defense

[dense latch]

how much is high horsepower doing after tera

116+ adamant from cir

[stone trellis]

From who, CIR?

[dense latch]

yes

[stone trellis]

116+ Atk Calyrex-Ice High Horsepower vs. 228 HP / 52 Def Tera Poison Landorus: 136-160 (70.4 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Is that a good roll?

[foggy lodge]

Yeh

[stone trellis]

So I don't really need any investment.

I guess I could replace Incineroar with Grimmsnarl, but they both kinda help with the physical attacker matchups.

I don't know, man.

Who should I go with, Grimm or Incin?

[dense latch]

incin is better rn imo

[stone trellis]

Alright.

I feel like running Tera Grass on this CIR is much better since Amoonguss cannot redirect Spore.

[dense latch]

i wouldn’t recommend it

you have miraidon to block spore

[stone trellis]

I FORGOT E-TERRAIN IS A THING I AM SO DUMB

[dense latch]

it’s not great outside of rain anyways in my opinion

[stone trellis]

Yeah, you're right.

https://pokepast.es/624740d82889e11b

This is what I managed to come up with.

[dense latch]

i find timid mirai very excessive with scarf

[stone trellis]

Yeah, you might be right.

But I don't think Modest really helps with any specific damage calcs.

[dense latch]

just better damage generally

i run modest 156 speed evs to outspeed treads

[stone trellis]

Yeah, and I avoid speed ties with other Scarf Miraidon anyway.

I'm going to run something like 236 to outspeed Valiant.

I know there's still some psycho fuck out there who uses Valiant and I have no intention of letting them survive.

And it doesn't really have enough bulk to survive any super important attack.

Aside from like, Tera Stellar CC from max Attack Adamant Urshifu.

Oh, and max Special Attack AB from +1 Life Orb CSR.

[torn dew]

https://pokepast.es/d3c06ce2ce9ffeb0

can someone rate my team

i think its good and if not i want to know why

in that way i could be better

[solid frigate]

sheesh double bike

[stone trellis]

Doesn't double bike have a bad matchup into Kyogre-CIR teams generally?

[foggy lodge]

Triple fairy is weird

[stone trellis]

The ever-relevant Zamazenta/Sludge Bomb Lando:

[solid frigate]

Korai doesn't have bad MUs for Kyogre

I'd say its not bad

its more like annoying more than bad MU

[stone trellis]

Yeah.

[solid frigate]

also you have a fucking car battery

a car battery that Can OHKO Ogre and Frailer CIR

[stone trellis]

This is why no one runs frail CIR.

What would be the worst matchup for dual bikes?

[solid frigate]

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Miraidon Electro Drift vs. 252 HP / 196 SpD Calyrex-Ice in Electric Terrain: 172-204 (83 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

[stone trellis]

Don't you recite the CIR E-Drift calcs to me, Aegis. I was there when it won San Antonio.

[solid frigate]

it was not for you tho

[stone trellis]

😔

Can Photon Geyser hit Dark types?

[dense latch]

no

[stone trellis]

I genuinely thought it could for some reason.

[dense latch]

just ignores abilities and can be either physical or special depending on the higher stat

[stone trellis]

If it could, Necrozma would be psyspam's greatest ally.

You could literally boom everything that's not a Steel type or holding a Covert Cloak.

[solid frigate]

thats-

Not how Photon Geyser works- (Covert Cloak Part)

[stone trellis]

I'm just theorizing on how it would work if its secondary effect allowed it to hit Dark types for neutral damage.

[next lynx]

Why would necorzma dusk wings not be better then lunala

[next stump]

the ability is substantially worse

[solid frigate]

ability and utility is worse

but damage is arugebly better ig

like NDW has like 2 sets
Psyspam
Photon Geyser

Lunala has 3

Power Herb
Electric Seed
Lefties CM
Tailwind Setter

and slots less than Lunala in terms of Role

[foggy lodge]

Who tf uses tailwind setter Lunala

[dense latch]

psychopaths i guess

[stone trellis]

People who feel way too confident.

[foggy lodge]

What in the depths of 1100 elo is this cooking

[stone trellis]

And then they remember that 252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Tera Poison Landorus Sludge Bomb vs. 140 HP / 92 SpD Shadow Shield Tera Fairy Lunala: 113-134 (49.1 - 58.2%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO.

This is one of those calcs that I have to memorise.

[foggy lodge]

https://youtu.be/_GNKqZHLmW8?si=VwkFYUOAtqcvnQLh

[stone trellis]

The top comment is peak.

[stone trellis]

CSR-Zama players when they have to take a shower and get a job:

[chrome knot]

i work pretty regularly

shower once a night i smell and look pretty beautiful

[stone trellis]

Shut up and let me hate on that team.

[chrome knot]

xd

[solid frigate]

damn calling monke out lol

[chrome knot]

hes also employed!!

[next stump]

muk smeargle players are the unemployed ones

[lost sun]

fr

[dense latch]

real

[solid frigate]

truly

[stone trellis]

This is a sentiment I can agree with.

I think I know exactly how to deal with those teams.

Leading Landorus and CIR means that Smeargle has to choose who is getting Faked Out and neither option ends well for Muk.

[bold geode]

Still stinky
Also Emma
I'm in that Cyber video and it's my bday

Shit dropped on my bday
Best unintentional gift ever

[silent jacinth]

i hate smeargle

[next stump]

https://tenor.com/view/wolf-of-wall-street-jordan-belfort-leonardo-di-caprio-one-of-us-jonah-hill-gif-5441859

[dense latch]

welcome to the club

[molten oasis]

all the homies hate smeargle

[left bobcat]

Who doesn’t?

[bold geode]

[rustic mountain]

🖌️

[glad tulip]

Is there any way of making ho-oh meta?

[rustic mountain]

it had like 2 seconds of shine early on in reg i but it just doesnt seem to be able to keep up w/ the top guns

u could try one of those teams and prolly do ok but its a bit outdated in a already few times changed over meta

[lost sun]

y do people wait for as long as possible to make their move in SD even tho they press the same thing over and over again

[forest arrow]

Its really useful into csr zama

[rustic mountain]

idk i just timer ppl wen they take too long

[forest arrow]

but that being said pretty bad into other things

[lost sun]

ye they wait till 1 second left

[solid frigate]

just run mirai Ho-Oh if you hate CSR too much and don't wanna run wide guard

[rustic mountain]

nd csr/zama teams can easily just slot in something bolt or urshi rapid that threaten ho oh

or even cornerstone was wat i was using

[forest arrow]

wasted res slot atp

[chrome knot]

i like smeargle

[solid frigate]

honestly imo

Bolt + Water Shifu as a duo is rather opressive against Ground

You can't run Lando against them cuz Water Shifu

[rustic mountain]

one of those early meta calls that clearly has shown it doesnt have the staying power

which like, happens

[solid frigate]

also it kinda also wants Clear Amulet

[forest arrow]

innovating at its finest

i do think the mirai ho oh treads team was cool tho

[rustic mountain]

treads actually has had staying power which is funny but yea that team was dope

even if it is niche

cuz its basically just for mirai teams for the mirror

[forest arrow]

for sure

[glad tulip]

I wanna run some of my favorite pokemon but I doubt any of them work well rn

[foggy lodge]

https://x.com/vgccorner/status/1941618849910313089

Brady Smith - VGC Corner (@vgccorner)

There are only two real archetypes in Reg I:
- Miraidon + Friends
- Shadow Rider + Zamazenta (Koraidon maybeee)

I'd love to see more innovation come up, but this seems to be where we're at.

Is there even a possibility where one of these two doesn't win worlds?

X · Jul 5, 2025, 10:03 PM

[glad tulip]

Ik for a fact cramorant is useless

[dense latch]

either they're just annoying which is normal for showdown or they just left and didnt forfeit

[glad tulip]

Does maushold do anything rn?

[forest arrow]

Korai/Csr wins

[glad tulip]

I'm a singles player tryna get into vgc

[dense latch]

not really

[forest arrow]

totally not delulu

[dense latch]

it's just outclassed in every way as a support mon and it's not a good offensive mon in this regulation either

[rustic mountain]

yea itll be an uphill battle for any of the other duos to compete w/ these

[glad tulip]

I'm looking at all these teams and I don't have any dlc mons so it's a struggle and I don't have half the legenderies required

[lost sun]

i recon cir wins worlds

[rustic mountain]

unless some crazy sauce comes out between now and then

[dense latch]

yea the dlc is basically a must in this regulation unfortunately

[rustic mountain]

p2win

[glad tulip]

Raging bolt Is a must you mean😭

90% of teams have that damn thing

[foggy lodge]

If you have shield and Violet you can play Zama Mirai!!!

[lost sun]

would bolt be good on cir ogre teams

[glad tulip]

Wish I could just run my Latias team

[glad tulip]

I have sword and scarlet....

[foggy lodge]

Actually that's so horrible you only get 1 free restricted in your game

[dense latch]

tbh i dont think not fair to group mirai zama, mirai lunala, mirai cir, or maybe like mirai pagos in the same archetype when they differ so much in composition

[forest arrow]

Koraidon Supremacy

[glad tulip]

Ooo wait could I make Gira work??

[dense latch]

but i do think mirai lunala csr zama and mirai cir are just one step ahead

[foggy lodge]

Ehhhh

[dense latch]

ehhhh

[foggy lodge]

It got top 16 at a regional? But its not really good

[dense latch]

very mid

[glad tulip]

He still sucks in doubles I see

[rustic mountain]

it is broad i agree, i look at mirai and friends as more either lunala or cir

but he shouldve specified i think he just assumed ppl would know what he meant

cuz idt he thinks zama/mirai or mirai/pagos is winning it

[molten oasis]

mirai and friends is funny to me tho

just as a concept, since that mon is busted

[foggy lodge]

I think the real archetypes rn are Mirainala, Zama CSR, Mirai CIR and Korai CSR

[dense latch]

im glad some of my fav mons are actually viable in competitive

I was a huge incin enjoyer when everyone was hating on it when it was first announced so imagine my happiness when i found out it's the best mon in the game

[foggy lodge]

Play either Miraidon or CSR there's nothing else tbh

[rustic mountain]

well yea its one of if not the best restricted in the format depending on who u ask

[forest arrow]

Agatis team goated

[dense latch]

and i was able to use my fav evo line in reg h

[lost sun]

I'm really liking kyogre cir currently

[molten oasis]

imo its the best, but CSR is a very close second

[solid frigate]

my ass after i trying to make my teams work in reg I(Blue and white guy):

[glad tulip]

Whats Mirai cir team look like

[molten oasis]

i make things work, experience is important

[dense latch]

basically if you don't have a miraidon or a horse in your team it's over for u

[molten oasis]

i've admittedly come around to really like playing miraidon

[rustic mountain]

i have had a few of my favs viable at different points (dnite, ttar, umbreon, grimmsnarl, dragapult) but more often then not it wound up working out that mons i used i began to like more because of using them so much whereas i mightve not had the same appreciation for em otherwise

[molten oasis]

its broken, but its fun to use

[dense latch]

most popular mirai cir team atm is Miraidon, CIR, Incin, Amoonguss, Urshifu water and lando

[molten oasis]

at least i think scarf is my favorite set to use

[glad tulip]

don't got like half that :/

[solid frigate]

i just spammed 2 teams for the whole mfing format

and almsot getting 3rd one

[molten oasis]

i spammed 2 as well

i had plenty of fun with them

[glad tulip]

Yk what NAH imma hit master ball with my own team (pray for me)

[rustic mountain]

ive played 1 team this format, def gta atleast try 1 or 2 before its done i just have no motivation to play rn

[dense latch]

this has been my builder the last month of this regulation

[forest arrow]

Was on the Koala train the beginning then went back to Horse tings

[dense latch]

can you guess my fav restricted duo

[molten oasis]

yea mirai ogre

[glad tulip]

Koraidon main right there

[lost sun]

might be volc and hands idk

[solid frigate]

mine is like

Position Hell (Mirai Ogre)
Fun but work harder than needed to (Korai Lunala)
Still haven't found teammates (CIR Lunala)

[rustic mountain]

cir lunala sucks

[molten oasis]

proud zacian player right here

[glad tulip]

This meta feels extremely aggressive

[molten oasis]

yea CIR Nala is not good

[solid frigate]

blame me for being bored of Mirai CIR and Kyogre CIR

[glad tulip]

Ou in vgc😭

[rustic mountain]

sure but try something else man thats a losing battle from the jump, they have no synergy outside we both set up tr

[dense latch]

this is a funny vr conversion rate

[solid frigate]

i'm basically being Nova's Spot in most formats rn

[forest arrow]

CIR Korai

Do it Morris

[glad tulip]

Aight well time to go to sword and do raid battles till I get the legenderies I want

[rustic mountain]

gl

[dense latch]

i think cir mirai has evolved enough in the last month or two where it would likely feel fresh for you again torrent

[solid frigate]

i actually considered but like

It just causes anti synergy with a mon i want to use

[glad tulip]

I have cir in sword so I gotta make a team around that

[rustic mountain]

its a double restricted format, gta figure out something u can reasonably pair w/ it that u have access to, otherwise u could always try trading

[dense latch]

i don't see korai cir doing especially good rn

[solid frigate]

also i already done with the format rn

I just build CIR lunala for like shits and memes

[dense latch]

im so glad i chose violet

[glad tulip]

Meta is legendery farming simulator for me😭 😭

[forest arrow]

I’m just waiting for worlds and champions tbh, I’m burnt out of S/V

[dense latch]

losing out on the stuff like bolt was rough but now that i main miraidon i dont regret it one bit

[rustic mountain]

its like bottom a tier, and its mostly cuz a few players have been keeping at it and i think more of it is more experience then inherent strength

[lost sun]

I chose violet for ceruledge then didn't use it as I picked the fire starter

[rustic mountain]

violets just better

[lost sun]

ye

[dense latch]

i was stubborn and used both despite the type overlap lmao ceruledge was just too cool

also i got access to pult which i love as a pokemon

[solid frigate]

i'm not burnt out of SV but i am done with this format after i pushed both Mirai Ogre and Korai Lunala to the limit of my abilities

[rustic mountain]

thats why u have friends u can just get it from

[lost sun]

I used ceruledge on my alt

[rustic mountain]

had a friend here catch one for me on an alt profile, was super clutch

[dense latch]

what's that

[foggy lodge]

Mine has been this

3rd one is my most preciated creation

[forest arrow]

The team at the top is goated

[rustic mountain]

waterpon on sun has been an adaptation i did not see coming

[forest arrow]

https://tenor.com/view/scream-tail-pokemon-wah-gif-16191872557361776130

[dense latch]

agati used it too right

wait the top team is just agati's team lmao

took me a bit

[solid frigate]

i'm too tired cuz i have non stop working on teams

[foggy lodge]

Waterpon is super good to patch up the Kyogre MU and in late game where Korai already terastallized and sun is over and a water type can just take it out

Its a bit of a follow me bot outside of certain MUs but it works good

[glad tulip]

Wait is there a trick room team? I love trick room in singles

[foggy lodge]

Cir always runs trick room

[lost sun]

would glastrier be a good Pokémon if it got glacial lance

[glad tulip]

Sick that's what I'm going for then

[rustic mountain]

[molten oasis]

see, i got my duos, and i dont get that bored of them necessarily, i'm more bored of the format

[rustic mountain]

yea i get it now just not something i guess i neccesarily saw being used on korai teams

[glad tulip]

Hypothetically in this meta, could I hit master ball making a custom team

[lost sun]

ye

[foggy lodge]

Yeah

[solid frigate]

no

[dense latch]

depends if the custom team is like

good or not

[forest arrow]

Definitely threw me off when I seen it

[molten oasis]

you can do that in any meta

[foggy lodge]

Master ball is not that hard tbh

[rustic mountain]

hitting mball isnt too hard

[dense latch]

yea

[lost sun]

masterball isn't as hard as it seems

[glad tulip]

Never actually tried in game ranked I usually just did showdown

[rustic mountain]

its more like top 1000 or even like top 500 and lower where it gets increasingly difficult

[glad tulip]

Peaked at I think 1700 in singles

[next stump]

master ball is pretty much the beginning of VGC, like the equivalent of silver/gold tiers in other video games

[glad tulip]

Oh this should be lighttttt then I've been playing pokemon since I was a kid

[molten oasis]

thats what i thought...

[dense latch]

right now it's not that hard to get a high ranking in masterball

[glad tulip]

It can't be that hard (forshadowing)

[rustic mountain]

its basically saying u have the basics down (somewhat) and can win at a 50% rate atleast

[dense latch]

i hit masterball in a dozen games from pokeball 5 and immediately got bumped to top 32

[solid frigate]

as long as you know shit on comp

You are fine

I just don't bother climbing ladders now

[dense latch]

just becuase it's pretty early on in the format

[foggy lodge]

I want to grind cart ladder in one season

[glad tulip]

Maushold team to master ball

[molten oasis]

its not that i dont like playing cart i just, dont play when im home

[dense latch]

i got on ladder this season because i missed seeing the animations lol

[molten oasis]

i generally play outside of home

[rustic mountain]

yea the system is very generous on the rank ups if ur coming out of early tiers, especially w/ good win streaks

[forest arrow]

Playing cart also feels better, need to get into the groove of actually doing it more

[dense latch]

wanted to make sure i still got it

[rustic mountain]

playing cart is goated

[dense latch]

https://tenor.com/view/unc-still-got-it-gif-6384030002593541773

[glad tulip]

I'll keep yall updated on the rank

[molten oasis]

the one time i asked someone to play cart this reg they were busy lol

[lost sun]

just sucks having to grind for Ur team

[foggy lodge]

I hate showdown a lot of the times on showdown I end up just button mashing

[dense latch]

didnt think i could sit through the longer games

[forest arrow]

Only reason I haven’t done it more

[dense latch]

real

[gentle crag]

Here is a list of all of the resources I find most helpful when playing/learning VGC:

https://www.vgcguide.com/ (Helpful website for basics and also to get your feet wet)

https://www.pikalytics.com/ (Shows you usage data and helps you build Pokémon)

https://nerd-of-now.github.io/NCP-VGC-Damage-Calculator/ (Damage calculator that is very helpful when building teams or reflecting on games)

https://youtube.com/c/CybertronVGC (Best channel for daily VGC content, guiding you through the thought process you need for success)

https://victoryroadvgc.com/ (Tournament results, team reports and breakdowns, and rental codes can be found here)

https://twitter.com/VGCPastes - Tournament and high ranked teams

https://twitter.com/vgccorner - Helpful Twitter account that posts in-depth EV spreads and ideas about competitive pokemon

There are dozens of other resources, some of which are in the pinned messages of this channel. But these IMO are the best places to start absorbing knowledge and getting to a place where you're comfortable with VGC

mlbd (ID 197813560997314562)

[Embed Link](#competitive_discussion message) to #competitive_discussion

Command triggered by treeco.. Message from · Dec 17, 2023, 7:30 PM

[dense latch]

i feel like cart makes me think a lil more

[rustic mountain]

@glad tulip check this out ^

[dense latch]

feels more real in a way

[molten oasis]

cart makes me nervous

[lost sun]

hope they don't add it in champions

[foggy lodge]

The only bad thing about cart is that there's no bo3 ladder but there's a bunch of limitless tournaments to play

[forest arrow]

Well it is real, Cart is what you actaully play in tournaments

[dense latch]

i havent played in a limitless tour in so long

lowkey wanna take a shot at a vr tour some day

[forest arrow]

Here’s to hoping champions makes all that easier

[molten oasis]

if champions is vgc

[forest arrow]

Like getting a team together

yeah

[molten oasis]

is it likely? yes
is it guaranteed? no

[lost sun]

what's usually on mirai lunala teams