competitive_discussion

[molten oasis]

against tera shell

[modern harbor]

too bad ogerpon loses it in tera

[bold geode]

Hello Nova

[chrome knot]

@bold geode where are you.

[bold geode]

Work

[chrome knot]

how long.

[nocturne holly]

@next stump are you liking peli or fari more on cir teams
Both are so good I don’t know who to choose

[bold geode]

Another 2 hrs
Then I got some shit to do before I do anything

[next stump]

Farig

so many teams are 2 fake out users, you're really weak to fake out + urshifu without farig

[silver ravine]

Why not peli and fari?

[bold geode]

Probably a bit too passive

[silver ravine]

Wouldn't you still want a wide guard user? Mind you my hyper offensive team doesn't have one and I don't always bring one for my csr team.

[nocturne holly]

Mhm I might do hearthflame for zam mu
But I really like amoonguss
Btw do you have a spread :3
Or what would I calc for

[devout nebula]

https://pokepast.es/1eb388bae231082b

is this team good

i really like it

miradion could probably be stronger and less tank

tanky*

[nocturne holly]

Mirai does not want conflicting terrain with rilla

[devout nebula]

no i wanted him there for flutter

[nocturne holly]

yea but it’s bad for mirai

[devout nebula]

yeah i get that

[cyan smelt]

Didn't tofu run rilla and mirai

[nocturne holly]

Mirai whole thing is e terrain and now you’re adding an extra component that’s gonna stop it from doing what it does

[devout nebula]

im tryna squeeze him in there because i dont got another good restricted

to run

[nocturne holly]

Ok so

It should be the other way around Lol

[devout nebula]

if you have any idea on what other restricted i could replace him with please lmk

[nocturne holly]

Mirai is like a great restricted build around it not the other way around

I mean ig cir or csr could work but 🤷‍♂️

[foggy lodge]

The teams are supposed to be built around a restricted

[devout nebula]

yeah but i dont have an idea on what restricted im gonna use

[foggy lodge]

there's like 9-10 options that are good

[devout nebula]

i dont want like a damaging restricted i want more of a supporting one

since i got a good deal of damagers

[foggy lodge]

Calyrex Shadow, Calyrex Ice, Terapagos, Miraidon, Koraidon, Kyogre, Groudon, Zacian, Zamazenta and Lunala

[nocturne holly]

you’re still building around your other members lol

[foggy lodge]

Those are the 10 that are used

[nocturne holly]

Pick a restricted you want

[foggy lodge]

why

[nocturne holly]

like just choose any that you want to use

[devout nebula]

idk

[foggy lodge]

The restricted is supposed to carry the team

That's why you only have one

[devout nebula]

is kyogre pelliper good to use

[jade dust]

Armarouge can help you or chandelure

[devout nebula]

actually wait hollon

i got an idea

[foggy lodge]

Pelipper is kinda rebundant

Since you already have rain

[jade dust]

Rain dance tornadus is better

[foggy lodge]

I was looking at a player and he is playing Kyogre

He said that Kyogre Tornadus Urshifu Chien Pao is one of his best cores

[nocturne holly]

I’m gonna try hearthlfame

[devout nebula]

@foggy lodge @nocturne holly i kinda changed it around a bit but does https://pokepast.es/9f42ed8be5e166c4 this work

[nocturne holly]

Yea I think that looks fine

[balmy glen]

Ye it’s pretty good right now

[molten oasis]

u-turn over protect on shifu

[nocturne holly]

Just some items

[molten oasis]

tera water or tera ghost

[devout nebula]

i already have that on my

[nocturne holly]

And water Tera

[devout nebula]

actuall urshifu

[molten oasis]

then put it on the paste

[devout nebula]

i just didnt put it there

[molten oasis]

that incin set is pretty bad

[balmy glen]

If u guys wanna try my variant I was using Banded Shifu, Life Orb Chien, Scarf Kyogre, Covert Torn, Tsareena wide lens, Smeargle sash

[dapper crag]

Move: Dragon Tail

If both the user and the target have not fainted, the target is forced to switch out and be replaced with a random unfainted ally. This effect fails if the target used Ingrain previously, has the Suction Cups Ability, or this move hit a substitute.

Type

Dragon

Category

Physical

Power

60

Accuracy

90

PP (max)

10 (16)

Priority

-6

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Makes contact.

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[molten oasis]

Incineroar @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 68 Def / 156 SpD / 28 Spe
Careful Nature

• Knock Off
• Parting Shot
• Will-O-Wisp
• Fake Out

[foggy lodge]

Check this base of Miraidon https://pokepast.es/0e6a76bf10fb53e2

[molten oasis]

banded shifu is interesting

[nocturne holly]

Tail is physical use pulse or meteor

[chrome knot]

i know who used this

[foggy lodge]

Tsareena is better than Farigiraf on Kyogre?

[devout nebula]

i want my incineroar to be able to fake out in trick room before other incineroars

i need it to be slow

ill make it bulky tho

[molten oasis]

that is a slow incin?

[devout nebula]

Oh

[balmy glen]

[molten oasis]

you can put the speed and att evs into defense ig

[nocturne holly]

Wait what is this calced for

[balmy glen]

Yes

[devout nebula]

ok wait let me sort it out

[molten oasis]

its just wahts used in the calculator

[chrome knot]

@balmy glen do u have swsh

[molten oasis]

DA's are truly terrible it seems

[chrome knot]

yes!

[devout nebula]

https://pokepast.es/72f1b03b2b80c085 there we go @molten oasis

[molten oasis]

drop protect on urshifu for close combat

[devout nebula]

i have close combat

[molten oasis]

the paste does not show that

[devout nebula]

i also have u turn on my acc urshifu

[foggy lodge]

can we adress the elephant in the room of dragon tail Miraidon

[nocturne holly]

Drago do you have a follow me hearthflame spread

[devout nebula]

oh

[chrome knot]

why do you have protect on scarf

[devout nebula]

its meant to say close

thought i had it on

[molten oasis]

204 hp 76 att 36 def 4 spD 188 speed jolly

[nocturne holly]

what is it calced for

[molten oasis]

get rid of fire blast on incin

[devout nebula]

for what

[molten oasis]

willo wisp

draco meteor or dragon pulse over dragon tail on miraidon

[devout nebula]

ok

there

https://pokepast.es/455442c9bedac650

[chrome knot]

why againnnn :(

[pallid hare]

Top Lel

[nocturne holly]

Who are you even hunting for again😭😭

[chrome knot]

finito ! !

[pallid hare]

Tapu Fini

[craggy dagger]

are you sure you didn’t catch fini already

[chrome knot]

NO this is a fresh save

all it has is dex completed 😭

[nocturne holly]

@chrome knot does hearthflame need max atk for the zam calcs
Like does it need Tera and hh or smth?

[chrome knot]

[balmy glen]

moment

[craggy dagger]

oh Keanu is here :0

[chrome knot]

@balmy glen band shifu + pao = cir ohko which is terrifying

[rustic mountain]

u gta have 1 protect max

[balmy glen]

Who needs protect

Just kill everything in sight

[molten oasis]

Surging strikes go brr

[cyan smelt]

Feint

[mighty stump]

Repositioning is only for people who made a mistake

[rustic mountain]

just play perfect bro

[dapper crag]

Ice, Ground

Hits for 1x

Bug, Dark, Fairy, Fighting, Ghost, Ice, Normal, Psychic, Stellar, Water

Hits for 2x

Dragon, Electric, Fire, Flying, Grass, Ground, Poison, Rock, Steel

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

Ice

Hits for 0.5x

Fire, Ice, Steel, Water

Hits for 1x

Bug, Dark, Electric, Fairy, Fighting, Ghost, Normal, Poison, Psychic, Rock, Stellar

Hits for 2x

Dragon, Flying, Grass, Ground

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

Calyrex-Ice [Psychic/Ice]

Hits for 0.5x

Steel

Hits for 1x

Bug, Dark, Electric, Fairy, Fire, Ghost, Ice, Normal, Psychic, Rock, Stellar, Water

Hits for 2x

Dragon, Fighting, Flying, Grass, Ground, Poison

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[chrome knot]

@craggy dagger live me pov doing DAs

[craggy dagger]

i get home tomorrow-
i can help you then

[chrome knot]

promiseeeee

[modern harbor]

is tera water or tera grass kyogre more common

[chrome knot]

grass

[glad osprey]

I need amoongus team

Just got my shiny

[modern harbor]

literally any team is an amoonguss team the mushroom is op

[timber falcon]

kyogre MU is definitely worth planning for right

[next stump]

yeah it's definitely getting more common

screens + leftovers or AV is everywhere on higher ladder

[timber falcon]

thanks ill add it to MUs i should cover

[modern harbor]

i feel like it would be nice to have a sunny day user but idk

[chrome knot]

on ur team ?

[modern harbor]

idkkk

i dont know if i can fit it anywhere

[chrome knot]

confused bc dont you have rain torn

[modern harbor]

i do

but sunny day for a diff mode and better mu into kyogre might be nice...

i could run 1 attack ogerpon w/ sunny day but that doesn't feel right

i could take off AV from rilla and go sunny day but thats also

and zama can have it too technically

could just get rid of iron def or something but then im cooked into caly ice

i mean follow me has won me games by dodging spore so idk if i can get rid of that either

[rustic mountain]

less about what it has done on occasion to win games and more wat it can do for u consistently. if u get tunnel visioned into thinking a mon is doing something for u and ignoring that there can be better options, ur gna have a hard time improving ur team cuz ur too attached to an idea/mon.
also w/ rilla and presumably wide guard zama idt kyogre should be too tough for u

[modern harbor]

not wide guard

[rustic mountain]

iron defense?

[modern harbor]

yes

[nocturne holly]

Can we see the team

[modern harbor]

yep hold on

idk if i have an up to date paste

[rustic mountain]

its kind of hard to say, i cant give u a full fledged breakdown of how to play the mu sorry haha too many variables. generally just playing it u can figure out wat the issue is and if u even have a team that can handle it. if ur not able to distinguish that, prolly best to take someones team and get a breakdown of it, play that and really get a better grasp for what makes a team work and how to play it

[modern harbor]

https://pokepast.es/9fb415c753a0ef6f

[nocturne holly]

Shifu is just generally good in the ogre mu because of just nuking shit with ss

[rustic mountain]

other then kyogre but it can do decent damage to it

[nocturne holly]

Zam with wide guard with help tho

[modern harbor]

i think maybe i should put move some def into spdef on zama so it doesnt get 2hko by ogre spread

[modern harbor]

but i lose to cir wo iron def

[nocturne holly]

Not really

wide guard is a pain for it to go against

You can Tera and zam just walls it

[modern harbor]

caly clicks high horsepower into zam anyways, wide guard wont help

true but idk i havent had any success with that matchup without the +3 def

[rustic mountain]

for what 20%? its not doing much at +1 def and non stab

[nocturne holly]

ye

[rustic mountain]

most times its not clicking lance is a dub tbh

[modern harbor]

p sure it 3hkos? i dont remember

[jade dust]

Who?

[nocturne holly]

Firepon

[rustic mountain]

means ur partners freed up and once u get it their head u dont even need to click it

[jade dust]

Ah

[modern harbor]

i know it's probably better but i dont think im good at piloting wide guard

[nocturne holly]

Wide guard would also help your kyogre mu

[modern harbor]

it would probably help a TON with ogre but im just so bad

[jade dust]

But that’s a physical attacker

[timber falcon]

so im restarting ray team, so far the firt 2 members i got are ray and electabuzz (ik electabuzz is niche, but its really been doing everything i need it to do perfectly) and am thinking if i should run an offensive dark type for farig, thought im not 100% sure i should. I think AV dark shifu would help, but then id need to add a decent fairy resist right???

[jade dust]

Unless you get a crit, you’ll struggle with zama

[nocturne holly]

with Tera and like hh It can ohko

[modern harbor]

i like tera ground fari with foul play and tera blast

[nocturne holly]

Amoonguss has been pretty clutch tho

[jade dust]

Amoonguss is great to stop snowball

Clear smog

[rustic mountain]

y not just sash?

av sounds terrible

[timber falcon]

i was hoping with AV i could help with tera fairy csr, with posion tera and all

[nocturne holly]

Not running smog
Rage powder spore and healing is so much support

[modern harbor]

also, do you guys prefer glide, leech, or hammer on ogerpon?

[nocturne holly]

Ogerpon does tons of damage and also gets redirection

[rustic mountain]

i mean u can try it, doesnt sound great on paper tho its sp def isnt that good

[timber falcon]

it has been done before, im just not 100% sure i can pull it off and if i get enough value

[nocturne holly]

Av darkshifu?

[rustic mountain]

it being done before doesnt mean its good. ive never seen av shifu do much

[nocturne holly]

I know av chien but never heard of av shifu

[timber falcon]

yeah ik

[rustic mountain]

i think like poison jab banded w/ tera is a better option in that regard

[modern harbor]

wait farigiraf can have sunny day.. maybe i can swap something for it?

[cyan smelt]

Caly stops using draining kiss and just uses astral barrage instead

[nocturne holly]

Why do you want sunny day

[modern harbor]

kyogre 😭😭

im so bad at fighting kyogre

[rustic mountain]

i think ur really moving too much around for it

[solid frigate]

what did i miss

[modern harbor]

me struggling with kyogre

i mostly fixed my cir problem but now im bad against blue fish

[rustic mountain]

u set up sunny day maybe then they can just rain dance or switch and come back in

seems like really exploitable

[solid frigate]

Dual Weather Zamazenta isn't that bad

[timber falcon]

reason why i didnt want that is cause i wont be able to use a different move when/if they tera

[rustic mountain]

u gta read man, they r talking bout sunny day giraffe. non prankster weather setting sucks generally

[chrome knot]

@modern harbor instead of changing your team a shit ton have you considered: learning the matchup

[timber falcon]

why is farig being built around btw?

[solid frigate]

Sunny day Fari-

[timber falcon]

shouldnt it be the resitricted

[jade dust]

What are you using in your 4th then?

[solid frigate]

W H A T

[modern harbor]

i dont know what this means

[modern harbor]

im not ? i just was looking for a sunny day mon and realized fari got it, its not even on my team tho

[jade dust]

The usually Amoonguss set is rage powder, pollen puff, spore and clear smog

[solid frigate]

back to Random Doubles i go

[rustic mountain]

yea i think band just offers more pressure generally

[timber falcon]

ohh i see. Yeah theyre much better, faster sunny day mons to make sure you are able to set it up

[modern harbor]

i know whimsicott gets it too

[chrome knot]

learn how to play into kyogre instead of changing ur team !

[timber falcon]

ill try AV, and if that dint work ill go with the old reliable sash

[modern harbor]

how do i do that ! i just play and then realize i have a hard time even touching kyogre !

[jade dust]

@nocturne holly This is the optimal guss build

[modern harbor]

i dont know how to learn a matchup i just play trial and error 😭 are there like tutorials i should be watching or something

[chrome knot]

i be sayin this and this is my builder rn :3

why is it

up there kyogre please come back down :<

[modern harbor]

s m a l l

[timber falcon]

well i just realised idk how to ev urshifu thats not running max max

[modern harbor]

idk im running 156atk max speed rest hp i think

[chrome knot]

a lot of it is trial and error tbf, just finding your lines into a team, i used to struggle with miraidon on cir until I realized half the mu is either forcing mirai to leave or let it kill raging bolt and take a -2SpAtk

[rustic mountain]

what are your takeaways though. trial and error usually means ur seeing what ur doing wrong and then trying to fix it. trynna plug in giraffe or get sun set up on that specific team isnt really the answer imo. its about how you approach it. maybe a move or 2 difference like adding wide guard. and not being scared to lose some games trynna figure out how to utilize that and play a mu u think u got down w/ iron defense and re calibrate that as well cause ur kinda relying on it as a crutch wen its really not necessary

wide guard itself makes ogre basically nothing and +1 zama is good enough into caly ice

[foggy lodge]

i think it's trial and error

[modern harbor]

yeah its just frustrating bc with all the other matchups theres a trick to beat it for me, like having terrain control for mirai and weather control for korai, iron defense, stall, and spore redirect for cir, and stuff but for kyogre i just feel hopeless

[chrome knot]

so instead of getting frustrated at it, take time to learn the trick to using your team to beati t

[foggy lodge]

in a tournament the best escenario is having the Match ups already practiced so you have to improvise the least

[chrome knot]

its not a 100:0 match up sometimes you just need improvision

[long narwhal]

Whats the best reg g team?

[rustic mountain]

patcon 6

[chrome knot]

patcon 6 hearthflame

[rustic mountain]

haha

[chrome knot]

ITS WINNING WORLDS

[rustic mountain]

[chrome knot]

I will jump for joy seeing that 6

[modern harbor]

i know ! i know im not very good but i come here looking for advice, or feedback on the ideas im having which i appreciate !
the whole sunny day thing was kinda just me seeing how well rain dance works against sun teams, so it might be good to have sun control too yk?

[long narwhal]

Can u send it? I wanna try

[chrome knot]

give replays ill help you review

[timber falcon]

whats a common farig set nowadays?

[modern harbor]

i dont play showdown 😭

[next stump]

is there some rental that’s going around with Kyogre/Amoonguss/Rilla/Incin/Grimmsnarl?

[rustic mountain]

double weather is honestly tricky to navigate for a newer player so i wouldnt recommend it

[next stump]

I’ve seen those 5 pokémon literally 10 times tonight on bo3 ladder

[modern harbor]

i jus play the video game version :3

[timber falcon]

like, do farigs still run 252/156 or is it higher

[chrome knot]

180 252+ 76

[timber falcon]

is this farig or smth else

[chrome knot]

farig

hp/def/spdef

[timber falcon]

ok thanks

[modern harbor]

holy balls thats a lot of support mons

[long narwhal]

Can u send it? The pokepaste

[chrome knot]

@next stump have u seen scarf kyogre & friends

[nocturne holly]

Protect

[chrome knot]

look pms

[rustic mountain]

not that ive seen rental wise but that cores been around

[jade dust]

Eh Amoonguss doesn’t need protect

[chrome knot]

mean this with all the care in the world but u needa get on showdown :3

[nocturne holly]

Nah it’s fine lol

[jade dust]

Most supports don’t

[modern harbor]

whyyyy i hate showdown

[timber falcon]

ok so durshifu cant even guaranteed KO those farigs. a tad worrying

[rustic mountain]

sd is good

[nocturne holly]

People really wanna target it down

[modern harbor]

its so boring to me :(

[rustic mountain]

really?

[chrome knot]

bc then if you need help its easily accessibleeeeeee

[timber falcon]

252+ Atk Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 180 HP / 252+ Def Farigiraf on a critical hit: 192-228 (88 - 104.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

[modern harbor]

yeahh i like the animations and colors n stuff in the game maybe im autistic lmao

[foggy lodge]

visually kinda

[rustic mountain]

the fludiity of the games is honestly great for practice imo. lets u get more reps in in less time

[foggy lodge]

I play with the 2D sprites because of that lol

[long narwhal]

Whats patcon 6

[nocturne holly]

Patrick Connor’s team

[rustic mountain]

incin/rilla/watershifu/cir/pelipper/bolt

[jade dust]

Clear smog opens you a counter to those minimize muk flamigo teams

[long narwhal]

Oh

[rustic mountain]

some ppl opt for giraffe over peli

and emma has heartflame over incin

[nocturne holly]

I’m never really seeing those high ladder

[long narwhal]

Yea i have that team

I am looking for a new one tho

[rustic mountain]

u wont

[nocturne holly]

I have amoonguss over rilla 😈

[foggy lodge]

I've seen some variations with Gholdengo over Pelipper too

[long narwhal]

Dont know what do use

[jade dust]

I have lol

[foggy lodge]

And the early archetype used Amoonguss over Rilla

[rustic mountain]

i think those were earlier on, i havent seen much of em anymore

[rustic mountain]

yea that was the iteration before the patcon 6

[foggy lodge]

I think Gholdengo is cool in CIR teams

Helps with Zama MU

[rustic mountain]

rilla over shroom was one of the big differences

[nocturne holly]

Amoonguss over rilla is really good it can be a bit passive tho

if you don’t position well

[rustic mountain]

they r both good mons

i like rilla more tho

[nocturne holly]

I might try rilla over amoonguss for a while tho

[long narwhal]

What team can i try? For bigginerd or easy to use

[foggy lodge]

Rilla also helps with Miraidon match up

[rustic mountain]

check out cybetronvgc

[nocturne holly]

yea bolt is great too

[rustic mountain]

he features teams and posts the rental

plays some games w/ it

[long narwhal]

I checked it

[nocturne holly]

I’m gonna try Emma’s hearthflame thing for zam mu

gotta calc now 😭

[rustic mountain]

[long narwhal]

Is hearthflame > incin?

On that team

[modern harbor]

what do we think about bringing back wide guard and getting good into cir mu

[jade dust]

Indeedee is the same level than Farigiraf

She does the same thing and has the benefit to remove the opponent’s terrain

[foggy lodge]

Depends

Indeedee has follow me but apart from removing other terrains other can remove her terrain lol

Farigiraf is more consistent blocking priority

[jade dust]

The main downside is that she doesn’t protect flying or levitate from priority moves

[jade dust]

Well she is kinda slow so her ability comes after Miraidon

But rillaboom is slower

[nocturne holly]

@rustic mountain What’s the most amount of defense and hp you think zam runs

[foggy lodge]

Rilla and Indeedee have the same speed

[rustic mountain]

i have no idea

[jade dust]

Oh really?

[nocturne holly]

Do I calc for 252/252+

[jade dust]

So 0 speed Indeedee optimal

[foggy lodge]

You would have to use like min speed Rilla to put your terrain over her terrain

[nocturne holly]

I don’t think any zam runs that

[rustic mountain]

idt anyones going that high

[foggy lodge]

Probably since it's mainly used in TR teams

And when it's not in TR it's using priority moves

[rustic mountain]

huh?

[jade dust]

Funny she herself uses priority moves while blocking them too

[rustic mountain]

oh follow me

im like wat r u talking about lmao

[jade dust]

Helping hand

Helping hand had higher priority than protect

I get why trick room has low priority but I think -5 is an overkill

[rustic mountain]

it should be -8000

[foggy lodge]

Yes

[chrome knot]

joy

[rustic mountain]

oh god

serperior chansey what the

[next stump]

forget everything I said about Zama

Kyogre is the hardest CIR matchup

good lord

[foggy lodge]

Yeah i saw that

[nocturne holly]

What am I tryna outspeeebwith fire pon

It needs relatively low atk tbh

[foggy lodge]

uhhhh

Max speed Oger is 172 i think

[nocturne holly]

What Tera are you running

Only think I can think of is 252+ shifu which I do

[jade dust]

Seed bomb

[next stump]

I was running Fire but I may switch to Water purely for this MU

[nocturne holly]

What an I tryna live too

[jade dust]

Tera water

[foggy lodge]

maybe but most are choice scarf or directly sash

[nocturne holly]

Yea water is really nice you can set up the in front of it

[foggy lodge]

Do you have something with TW?

Or icy wind?

[nocturne holly]

Then I can bring out amoonguss and pinch it

[nocturne holly]

No

[jade dust]

I mean you still don’t want to take those full HP water spouts

Even if you resist it it’s a lot of damage

[nocturne holly]

Yea I also outspeed 252+ kyogre

What am I tryna live tho

[jade dust]

With who

[nocturne holly]

Firepon

[chrome knot]

did u see what I sent you

[jade dust]

Alright then, if you use tera water still gotta be careful of thunder

Some use that on Kyoger

[nocturne holly]

firepon

[foggy lodge]

Is AV Kyogre still used?

[jade dust]

If you use tera water caly ice

[jade dust]

Idk, I see leftovers a lot

Or mystic water

[next stump]

yeah I did see your DM

that team seems like lead matchup determines everything lol

you can just lose before the game even starts

[rustic mountain]

av ogre is around

[jade dust]

That’s why I kinda bring a check to everything, so I have an answer for common things

Zama, I bring chandelure. Kyoger, I bring wide guard. Lunala, I bring amoonguss. Terapagos, I bring Mieshao

[long narwhal]

Pls feedback https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2165747048-f6i90t2fvd1lxxs9ywqghnbc18jcx96pw

[chrome knot]

@craggy dagger idt tapu fini is a real pokemon

[next stump]

You should probably have U-Turn'd out on turn 1 with Urshifu since you're really not dealing damage anyways assuming they tera

Turn 4 you had a free weather ball into Calyrex (They're never clicking Lance, and you underspeed their Porygon so you have that slot pinned)

Same thing on turn 5

[chrome knot]

bc why have I found 2 bumass shiny mons and 0 tapu finis

[long narwhal]

It would not kill tho bc it was water weather ball

[next stump]

It's not about whether it kills, it deals like 30-40% and it's better than wasting your turn

Your protect failed and then your Wide Guard did nothing

[chrome knot]

important tip for improving

focus on winning the game instead of winning every turn

[mighty stump]

Every turn is a resource and it should be spent accordingly

[chrome knot]

tofu

[long narwhal]

Wdym by that

[balmy glen]

Think turns ahead and don’t focus in only on the individual turn

[jade dust]

Wait wide guard doesn’t fail from repeated use

But does protect fail if you use it after wide guard?

[chrome knot]

@balmy glen scarf kyogre is an act of evil

same with band shifu

[balmy glen]

True

Especially with feint

[chrome knot]

i recreated the solar flare winning team of it

its disgusting and soooo funny to use

[mighty stump]

Yes, WG stacks the counter for Protect

[jade dust]

Ah so you can use wide guard as often as you want but if you have protect as well it fails

[mighty stump]

Basically you can Protect > WG but not WG > Protect

[spiral ridge]

Got my ass beat by it when it one tapped and out sped my Miraidon

[jade dust]

Ah alright. Running both in general isn’t a good idea tbh

Your wide guard user should use something else with that slot

[balmy glen]

What’s solar flare

[foggy lodge]

WG never fails basically

?

[dapper crag]

Move: Wide Guard

The user and its party members are protected from moves made by other Pokemon, including allies, during this turn that target all adjacent foes or all adjacent Pokemon. This move modifies the same 1/X chance of being successful used by other protection moves, where X starts at 1 and triples each time this move is successfully used, but does not use the chance to check for failure. X resets to 1 if this move fails, if the user's last move used is not Baneful Bunker, Burning Bulwark, Detect, Endure, King's Shield, Max Guard, Obstruct, Protect, Quick Guard, Silk Trap, Spiky Shield, or Wide Guard, or if it was one of those moves and the user's protection was broken. Fails if the user moves last this turn or if this move is already in effect for the user's side.

Type

Rock

Category

Status

Power

0

Accuracy

—

PP (max)

10 (16)

Priority

3

Move Flags

​

Protect

Bypasses Protect-like moves.

Contact

Does not make contact.

Snatch

Affected by Snatch.

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[chrome knot]

toronto had a big tournament with a prizepool

[balmy glen]

oh nice

tbh only player ik from there is ryan

or like canada in general ig

[chrome knot]

ah

[mighty stump]

Zama wants a word

[patent marsh]

didn't the first winning zama run both protect and wg

regional winner

[balmy glen]

what?

maybe in close team sheets ig

only in cts i can see not running protect but maybe an option

[jade dust]

Fair point

Thoughts on this rain team?

[craggy dagger]

acid spray where-

[balmy glen]

^

acid spray on overqeil

[molten oasis]

why not lando i

[patent marsh]

no physical attackers then, you run into a specially tanky team you just 😭

lando T probs there to balance with overqwil

so you're not fully special attackers

[molten oasis]

could also easily add rapid strike

[patent marsh]

ye

[jade dust]

Oh right

Instead of what?

Liquidation?

[jade dust]

To have intimidate

And another physical attacker
Or should I replace Overquill with urshifu safety googles?

[junior blade]

Good lead for singles ubers?

[jade dust]

Shuckle

Sticky web, stealth rock

[modern harbor]

guys does mold breaker prevent full para?

[cyan smelt]

no

[modern harbor]

does para affect protect and follow me?

[cyan smelt]

yes

if you're full para you can't use any moves

[modern harbor]

wtf lol i think i went without getting full para like 20 turns in a row

at LEAST 10-15

ogerpon was para and just kept using follow me and spiky shield lul

[cyan smelt]

i just watched a lugia 1v4 an entire team

[modern harbor]

just realized, since ogerpon ignores tera shell, 252+atk superpower OHKOs terapagos 4/5 times if u wanna run superpower lol

[mighty stump]

I mean you’re either giving up Follow Me/SD for that

idt it’s really worth

[devout nebula]

https://pokepast.es/631cc320359d9b58 @mighty stump do you reckon this teams good

might swap raichu with incineroar

[knotty mirage]

Might worth a shot especially when you probably gonna use fire pon for damage anyway

[solid frigate]

I'll make a Lunala Team for my last Team

in Reg G

[cyan smelt]

I want to use skeledirge but don't know who else to use except Zama and rilla

[solid frigate]

i mean might as well complete the FWG core

[cyan smelt]

Urshi?

[solid frigate]

Probably, Peli kinda contridicts with Skele unless you have someone who can use Sun

[cyan smelt]

And with skele I'd be kinda worried about those caly I pelipper teams

[solid frigate]

Maybe TornShifu?

if you remove Skele i can actually put Fire Pon

tho your option

[cyan smelt]

Already got torn so I could use sunny day on it

I want to use skele because of all the calm mind calys and coaching calys going around

[solid frigate]

fair

[cyan smelt]

And if I put wide guard on Zama then calys can't do much to skele and zama

[solid frigate]

https://pokepast.es/016dc756abf95276

Lemme Cook

[cyan smelt]

Two flying types?

[devout nebula]

https://pokepast.es/631cc320359d9b58 chat am i cooking or have i burnt it 🔥

[solid frigate]

there is a reason i want Juglius on the team

T r i c k r o o m

[devout nebula]

is jugulis slow?

[cyan smelt]

Has anyone ever tried lunala/comfey/rilla

[solid frigate]

I dunno,but i kinda wanna try something out with Roar Iron Juglius

is there any Ground type with Roar

[cyan smelt]

Seems decent enough for anti tr and anti setup

[solid frigate]

Wait,Hippowdon?

it is a ground type,Can trap opponents and Roar

[devout nebula]

hippowdon is the only ground with roar

i think

[solid frigate]

Camerupt:

[devout nebula]

oh

[solid frigate]

Rhyhorn line

[cyan smelt]

Hippowdon, donphan

Groudon lol

Torterra

[solid frigate]

my thought process is that i want Anti TR and Anti Step up while little bit of Stall

tho the stall is healthy

[cyan smelt]

Mamoswine

Krookodile

Mudsdale

[devout nebula]

brudda i get it

[cyan smelt]

Ursaluna

[devout nebula]

realistically hes only gonna use groudon or ursaluna for ground with roar

[solid frigate]

https://pokepast.es/0dc2f82e98c94329

I think this would work,just need some testing

[cyan smelt]

But sand stream would break shadow shield

[devout nebula]

do you think alolan raichu with a support set works well with miraidon

since his speed doubles in eletric terrain

[solid frigate]

no,It does not really benefit for my team

[devout nebula]

no just in general

[solid frigate]

it only benefit raichu itself

[devout nebula]

not for your team

[solid frigate]

I have a Miraidon as well.

[cyan smelt]

Alolan raichu can't really hit hard enough

[solid frigate]

and makes it even more TR Food

[devout nebula]

he doesnt have a bad spa stat at all

its not the best

but electric terrain gives it a 1.3x boost

[cyan smelt]

95 in such a high powered meta is not that good

[devout nebula]

No but its obviously boosted in eletric terrain

[solid frigate]

one thing about Alolan Raichu

It does not help on Miraidon Mirror due to no Lightning Rod,Very TR Food in E-Terrain

and technically Kyogre with Thunder

[devout nebula]

i guess so

[cyan smelt]

And E terrain easily gets cancelled by rilla

[solid frigate]

exactly

[cyan smelt]

Or terapagos

[solid frigate]

i would not really use it unless its Kanto Raichu

[devout nebula]

for lightning rod?

[cyan smelt]

And fake out and feint

[devout nebula]

alolan has fake out

[solid frigate]

but The Psychic Typing hurts against Calyrex Shadow

and Urshifu Dark

and Flutter Mane

[devout nebula]

im more likely to run into urshifu water

then urshifu dark

[solid frigate]

i saw an Urshifu Dark in the ladder today

[cyan smelt]

And hurts against incin

[solid frigate]

exactly

plus Kanto Raichu can easily shut down Miraidon with Tera Fairy+Lightning Rod

Zamazenta teams used it with it for Miraidon MU cuz it has Pelipper

[cyan smelt]

Alolan raichu doesn't have any good spread moves either

[solid frigate]

outside of Electroweb

And thats it

[cyan smelt]

And electroweb doesn't slow down caly s because cloak

[solid frigate]

and with a influx of Tailroom Teams,its hard to use Electroweb safely

[devout nebula]

ahdsjadhas

ill just swap it for another support

like whimsicott or something

[cyan smelt]

Usually the farigs on miraidon teams run electric seed and tera ground

[solid frigate]

i have the set

[cyan smelt]

And the only speed control you have is tr

Oh and E web

[solid frigate]

N E C K (Farigiraf) @ Electric Seed
Ability: Armor Tail
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Trick Room
• Hyper Voice
• Helping Hand
• Protect

[cyan smelt]

No tera blast?

[solid frigate]

If you look my Miraidon Rental, you can see why

[cyan smelt]

Oh because crown has it

[solid frigate]

E X A C T L Y

[cyan smelt]

I guess crown tera blast would be more powerful

[solid frigate]

it can deal 70% max on a Caly Ice with Tera Fire

[cyan smelt]

Nice

[timber falcon]

most CIR are fire tera right

[solid frigate]

mhm

[timber falcon]

how would i go about finding a mon to help with that

i need a nice CIR answer

[cyan smelt]

Urshifu

Pelipper

[timber falcon]

im would choose peli

but im running ray

wide guard would help though, help ray set and kill

i might aswell run peli as im looking for more than its ability atm

[molten oasis]

Urshifu

[timber falcon]

https://pokepast.es/4607b4ed4ae7069b this is what ive got for now whilst conidering MUs

[molten oasis]

If you go rapid, incin is easily placable

Incin is an option either way

[timber falcon]

i was looking towards a wide guard mon though

CIR wouldnt be able to touch it if i had one tbh, and its just a overall great addition i feel

[solid frigate]

Pelipper moment

[timber falcon]

thing is airlocke, idk if i get the value from peli

[solid frigate]

fair

Mienshao?

[molten oasis]

Peli then

Or hitmontop

As monke has already proven that to work

Why do you need wide guard?

[timber falcon]

i think it helps with my MUs

[molten oasis]

Which ones that’s not very specific

[timber falcon]

calys, kyogre, dgleam

mainly those

[molten oasis]

What is running gleam rn

Flutter typically runs moonblast and speed control moves

[solid frigate]

Flutter?

i saw some gleams today

[timber falcon]

flutter yeah

[molten oasis]

I think gleam whims is trash

[solid frigate]

Who runs Gleam Whims-

[molten oasis]

Ig miraidon

[molten oasis]

Saw one the other day

[solid frigate]

that kinda gone cuz Rajan's Mirai Exists

[timber falcon]

oh yeah and miraidon discharge + gleam

[molten oasis]

I fail to see why we’re still keeping the electabuzz

[timber falcon]

wide guard just helps

[molten oasis]

But okay

[solid frigate]

do you wanna die to wide guard? run 2 Spread Moves unless you are Kyogre

[molten oasis]

Lose not die but ok

[timber falcon]

cause it does pretty much all i want it to do, and i havent found a diff mon i want to do the job better

[molten oasis]

Which is?

What’s the purpose of it

[timber falcon]

mainly follow me, but at the same time be able to stay on the field and keep redirecting as much as possibe, at the same time it can slow down opponent mons woth ewebs and taunt away moongus

[molten oasis]

Ogerpon

[timber falcon]

ogerpon doesnt retain the bulk im looking for

[molten oasis]

Does the same thing, except the speed control aspect

Can at least

It gets taunt you could run taunt

[timber falcon]

speed control is quite important, ray isnt the fastest and i need to use dragin ascent most if the time

[molten oasis]

I’m not an idiot dude

[timber falcon]

just explaining why i think pon isnt the fit

[molten oasis]

I understand it’s important but what does that do to cloak CSR or CA koraidon

[timber falcon]

nothing

[molten oasis]

idc what you run, I still think smth like clef or ogerpon would be better

[timber falcon]

follow me stops draining kiss anyway making ray safe, and koraidon doesn't touch ray either way tbh

[molten oasis]

But whatever

It just sounds like the building process is proving really difficult

Everytime I see you it’s a different team

Besides Ray and Buzz

[timber falcon]

yeah ive been quite inconsistent with pokemon

[molten oasis]

I think

You need to run and pick out a set of 6

Run it a lot

Then make changes, cuz you keep resetting

[timber falcon]

yeah i keep forgetting the team has to synergise and ended up choosing random answers to MUs, forgetting my own game plan

[molten oasis]

You’re gonna overthink if you try to synergize

Genuinely

Just run incin r-shifu on the last spots and see if you do genuinely need wide guard

Or hitmontop and incin

Although I think that’s too passive

Idt you NEED wide guard but I get why you want it

[nocturne holly]

Wide guard clutch

I wanna use feint on a team

Such a cool concept

[molten oasis]

Y?

It’s a weird move that little notable things get

[nocturne holly]

just like covering for a protect is nice

[molten oasis]

To run feint you have to use like, smeargle mienshao or electabuzz

[molten oasis]

Urshifu already does that without needing to click feint

[nocturne holly]

Not running it anytime soon but I wanna

[nocturne holly]

Yea but it allows like other mons to

Like cir csr

[molten oasis]

Fair enough

[timber falcon]

btw drago

whats your reasoning for clef over electabuzz in this scenario?

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 125: Electabuzz

Type

Electric

Abilities

Static, Vital Spirit (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

65/83/57/95/85/105

Total

490

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

Pokémon No. 35: Clefairy

Type

Fairy

Abilities

Cute Charm, Magic Guard, Friend Guard (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

70/45/48/60/65/35

Total

323

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[nocturne holly]

What does electabuzz do over clef

Slightly bulkier

Way faster

No friend guard

Gets taunt ig

[molten oasis]

Bulkier, friend guard is really good

[timber falcon]

clef isnt bulkier

friend guard is nice though

[molten oasis]

im not doing this today

I’ve always had an easier time killing electabuzz than clef

But whatever you say

[timber falcon]

prolly cause resistances i guess

[molten oasis]

Have fun cuz I already gave you my 2 cents on what you can try out

https://tenor.com/view/peace-out-gif-22295199

[timber falcon]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2165956275

the start of this game is basically what im tryna do for most games

redirect and sweep

[nocturne holly]

Isn’t electabuzz bulkier

Like just looking at the stats

Clef does resist knock off tho

[molten oasis]

Your opponents so dumb lol

yes electabuzz is bulkier I think in general Clefairy offers higher value

Because of better defensive typing and friend guard

[nocturne holly]

I agree

Friend guard is insane value

[calm gulch]

@bold geode

[chrome knot]

@craggy dagger @bold geode @molten oasis LETS GOOOOOOOOOO LMFAOO

the hard part is over

[dull ibex]

hello

[timber falcon]

this was the hard part?

[chrome knot]

yes finding it was impossible

[bold geode]

What you looking at

[bold geode]

Finally
Now cut your pills

[chrome knot]

I DO

[chrome knot]

my path has electric terrain rising voltage luxray

[calm gulch]

i came to bully

[bold geode]

I bullied you

[calm gulch]

my turn now

[glad osprey]

How do you get ev spreads super accurate in game? I know Protein and items like that will increase by 10, but are there items that increase a single value

[calm gulch]

#BullyMonke #MonkeAsmr

[bold geode]

Feathers

[glad osprey]

ahhhhh okay

perfect, thank you

[bold geode]

Yup

[glad osprey]

For some reason I maxed out HP + attack for a raid pokemon and can put 6 swift feathers into him. Very confused why it's not 4

[bold geode]

The amount of EVs there can be used is actually 510 instead of 508, but those extra 2 don't really count for anything

[glad osprey]

Ahhh okay, so used to the showdown setup that I got a bit confused

[spiral ridge]

Ayyy nice

[chrome knot]

my path online is so easy

vespiquen --> (vileplume scientist) lilligant --> luxray

[craggy dagger]

nice

[glad osprey]

Anyone know the easiest way to get a tornadus

is it swsh or lza

[nocturne holly]

I think Lza is slightly easier because it’s a guaranteed encounter

[foggy lodge]

Tornadus is exclusive in swsh

[nocturne holly]

Wait what it lza lol

I think you mean pla

[foggy lodge]

So legends arceus

[glad osprey]

Pla yes my bad lmaooooo

[zinc totem]

are these good ivs for raging bolt?

Raging Bolt @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk

• Thunderclap
• Draco Meteor
• Thunderbolt
• Volt Switch

or should i make a bit more spread for SpD and Def?

[solid frigate]

nope

[bold geode]

You definitely want some Defense investment

[zinc totem]

yea was thinking that

Raging Bolt @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 44 HP / 140 Def / 252 SpA / 68 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk

• Thunderclap
• Draco Meteor
• Thunderbolt
• Volt Switch^

Maybe something like this. I lowered Hp investment beacuse its hp stat is already 125 but might lower SpA a bit and increase HP more beacuse proto increases SpA nicely

[bold geode]

I don't think you really need max spatk for AV Bolt

[zinc totem]

yeah

thats what i was thinking i should cut a bit more to increase Hp stat

[glad osprey]

What makes tornadus so much more common than other tailwind setters

[next stump]

prankster

[glad osprey]

Honestly trying to figure out if its worth grinding PLA to get one

[patent marsh]

iirc my raging bolt has like 100 spA EVs and rest is into bulk 💀 though it's played in a koraidon team

[glad osprey]

Whimsicott has that

[next stump]

it

oops

[glad osprey]

Is there really any difference there

or just typing pref

[zinc totem]

tornadus and whimsi are boht used

[next stump]

it's typing is superior on some teams (flying can help cover things the team is weak to)

[zinc totem]

tornadus is more beacuse prankster and can help weather war, has taunt and AoE damage

[glad osprey]

ahhhh okay

[zinc totem]

whimsi is used due encore annoyance

[glad osprey]

I have my whimsi shiny

so I was debating if it was worth it to get torn, but it seems it may be

[zinc totem]

argueable whimsi is usable replacement for tornadus beacuse it can hit miraidon and koraidon

[glad osprey]

V true

[zinc totem]

and encore makes it real pain annoyance to be against

[patent marsh]

tornadus already hits koraidon though

[glad osprey]

Unless koraidon tera

[zinc totem]

true but moonblast guarantees kill

[patent marsh]

Koraidon is a fighting type

[glad osprey]

miraidon*

[zinc totem]

while tornadus can miss

or wide guard ruins it

[patent marsh]

koraidon common tera type is fire

which resists moonblast

torn is still neutral at most

[zinc totem]

yes but some people dont tera koraidon

sometimes they use tera on something else

tho whimsi need sash to work which tornadus no need

[patent marsh]

I mean depends on match up

[zinc totem]

pretty much

[glad osprey]

I literally want a team centered around blood moon ursa

[patent marsh]

but overall Torn is still safer

[zinc totem]

you can go tr route too with farigiraf/indeedee with it

[patent marsh]

plus we can do this with torn if you omit tera ghost and use a covert

[zinc totem]

true but if you want give covert cloak to other pokemon, whimsi is better in that case aswell

so it depens what you want go for

[glad osprey]

I am really new to VGC so still learning the purpose of indeedee

Farigaraf is the goat

[zinc totem]

terrain that stops priorities, follow mer that forces people hit her

also terrain makes e force hit 2 enemies instead of one

indeedee basically is part of terrain war trio

so in away indeedee frees 2 slots

but i think indeedee is one of those pokemons that are used in spesific comps

like lunala/dawn wing necrozma as its restricted

dont quote me on that tho beacuse indeedee can work in more variety of teams

[glad osprey]

this is so smart

I feel like you could use calyrex on team too

[zinc totem]

my indeedee set is trick room dazzling gleam follow me and HH

[glad osprey]

do you run that with a farigaraf or is it just indeedee

[zinc totem]

just indeedee but it can be run with fari

[nocturne holly]

https://pokepast.es/894e3166b47cc4ef Dillon what do you think of this

[zinc totem]

tho its not that effective with fari so its one or other normally people use

[glad osprey]

yeah that makes sense

do you have a slow team with that

[craggy dagger]

wah-?

are we talking about indeedee-

[glad osprey]

yes

[next stump]

looks pretty solid and standard, no obvious flaws

[nocturne holly]

Thxx

[zinc totem]

its more mixed speed control team

also known as tailroom team

[rustic mountain]

dont forgot those 4 speed evs

[glad osprey]

hahaha I need to figure out how to team build

where do you find terms like that

'tailroom' that is

[zinc totem]

tailroom is prertty much team that has both trickroom and tailwind

[zinc totem]

im actually goin do a biut more differend spread

[foggy lodge]

i'm not accustomed to see a Raging with so low HP

[zinc totem]

dont worry im still adjusting evsd

by loweing SpA to 100 i made 188 hp R bolt

[foggy lodge]

What's the whole team?

I like Raging with 224 HP to maximize the terrain recover

[dapper crag]

So now what, opponents dc and I gain loses

[zinc totem]

Raging Bolt @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 188 HP / 132 Def / 100 SpA / 52 SpD / 36 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk

• Thunderclap
• Draco Meteor
• Thunderbolt
• Volt Switch

I did one better @rustic mountain

and yes i refuse use electroweb even tho its probs best one for r bolt

[zinc totem]

very standard one https://pokepast.es/c4ad51a12a05695d (just fiddling with some evs atm)

tho flutter defo will be cursed one

[nocturne holly]

Why does flutter have lefties

[bold geode]

[zinc totem]

Filler cursed item tho flutter is made to be bulky tho been thinking LO or fairy feather

[dapper crag]

Ogerpon-Hearthflame [Grass/Fire]

Resists (0.25x)

Grass

Resists (0.5x)

Electric, Fairy, Steel

Neutral damage

Bug, Dark, Dragon, Fighting, Fire, Ghost, Ground, Ice, Normal, Psychic, Stellar, Water

Weak (2x)

Flying, Poison, Rock

Type Notes

Grass-types are immune to Powder-based Moves.
Fire-types cannot be Burned.

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[nocturne holly]

It has so many neutrals because grass and fire clash a lot

[rustic mountain]

[rustic mountain]

[bold geode]

@next stump would a 12.5% roll be aight?

[next stump]

yeah that's a fine roll IMO

[nocturne holly]

I have to test like 3 team variations today😭

[chrome knot]

@craggy dagger mmm after work wanna help the route is so easy🥺

[molten oasis]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-excited-explode-happy-spongebob-squarepants-gif-12971731

Pop off, now to get the shiny

[chrome knot]

i doing i doing

its at peak efficiency at 3 players so i just need 2 friends to stay up all night with me tn

[dapper crag]

- [Ground]

Immune

Electric

Resists (0.5x)

Poison, Rock

Neutral damage

Bug, Dark, Dragon, Fairy, Fighting, Fire, Flying, Ghost, Ground, Normal, Psychic, Steel, Stellar

Weak (2x)

Grass, Ice, Water

Type Notes

Ground-types take no damage from Sandstorm.

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[glad osprey]

Hmmm where can I find resources on building / renting a nice tailroom team

Right now I just shiny hunted a ton of the meta pokemon so I can build a shiny team excluding some legendaries lol

[zinc totem]

#rental_teams

[craggy dagger]

you can also ask around in this chat for help on a team if you’d like
:)

[nocturne holly]

When is rilla and amoonguss on a team like ok

[finite vine]

What tera type should I give to my Volcarona? It’s for single battles and mostly quiver dance lol

[glad osprey]

Yes, would love that. Honestly I see the rentals and have read notes but really want to understand how to make my own team or how to really use them. A lot of the notes are written for players who already play VGC and not someone who is new

[nocturne holly]

The best way to get into team building is rentals tbh

You get to learn the pieces

And mechanics

[craggy dagger]

singles-
hm…
tera water is still good, though you could go tera fire for more damage output, or stellar if you wanna final output it

[finite vine]

Got it! Thanks!! ^^

[gentle crag]

kumotzu has given 1 Gen Rep to stella_novie

[nocturne holly]

What are some good partners for kyogre

Kyogre and Tsareena team

[jade dust]

Archaludon, tornadus

Indeedee or Farigiraf

Overquill or urshifu

[jade dust]

Tsarena is good but indeede is better cuz you can remove grassy terrain

[nocturne holly]

Hm ima try volc

I can get rage powder without amoonguss

https://pokepast.es/3da39815b3685056

[jade dust]

In that case ogerpon fire is better with follow me

So you fuck grass types

[nocturne holly]

It’s a rain team tho lol

[jade dust]

Yeah it’s to force grass to target it

Rillaboom is one of your main counters

You keep it in check with either indeedee or firepon

[nocturne holly]

fire pon is negative synergy with rain

I’m not doing that

[jade dust]

Indeedee over tsarena then

[nocturne holly]

Rilla might be better for tsareena it’s also my mirai counter

How tsareena teams deal with mirai and rilla then

[jade dust]

They don’t lol

That’s why they struggle

Even if rilla can’t grassy glide it can hammer and 1 shoot Kyoger with grassy terrain

[nocturne holly]

A fair bit also have rilla on them

[jade dust]

Follow me indeedee helpe to remove terrain and protect Kyoger

Also the benefit to use trick room

If your opponent has tailwind or iron bundle you trick room, if they don’t you tailwind tornadus

[nocturne holly]

A lot of tsareena teams have ekactabuzz or clef with follow me

Gonna try that

Follow me clef would be cool with friend guard

[craggy dagger]

kyogre tsareena, rilla, tornadus/whimsicott

if you wanna replace terrain i’d go rilla over indeedee
you can also run grassy glide on tsareena to capitalize on other rilla if you like-
though most of the time you’d be more in danger to mirai and electric terrain

[nocturne holly]

I’m looking at some kyogre teams and like ton of them have rilla and tsareena on them

[craggy dagger]

yup-
they resist miraidon and other grass types which is the biggest threat to kyogre atm

[nocturne holly]

Yea def wanna use tsareena

I need like some redirection

Indeedee doesn’t seem bad tbh

Incin also helps with the core

[dapper crag]

Incineroar [Fire/Dark]

Immune

Psychic

Resists (0.5x)

Dark, Fire, Ghost, Grass, Ice, Steel

Neutral damage

Bug, Dragon, Electric, Fairy, Flying, Normal, Poison, Stellar

Weak (2x)

Fighting, Ground, Rock, Water

Type Notes

Fire-types cannot be Burned.

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[nocturne holly]

https://pokepast.es/3f282d7b54231d9c need some more damage dealers now

[dapper crag]

[Latest Gen] Tsareena

Wide Guard:

• Tsareena does not learn Wide Guard in Generation 9

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[craggy dagger]

i dont think tsareena ever got wide guard-

[foggy lodge]

Tornadus Chien Pao Urshifu

And as a sixth hmm

[craggy dagger]

whimsicott > tornadus

[foggy lodge]

Archaludon?

[foggy lodge]

Maybe

Encore with Kyogre's pressure is pretty good but i think Torn is better

Hurricane Torn>

[craggy dagger]

i just like encore as well as whimsicott is cuter xD

[solid frigate]

kek

[nocturne holly]

Idk it u want another water type

Chien doesn’t seem bad tbh

[foggy lodge]

An spanish player was playing Kyogre the other day

Let me search the team

It was this but Chien Pao Urshifu instead of Archaludon Rillaboom

[hazy vector]

Hello

Guess what

I made a great discovery

Especially about Low key form Toxtricity.

Outta this who you think did the most damage

[solid frigate]

I love how the Spanish names on Items is ridiculously Long

[hazy vector]

That's my question

[molten oasis]

Who’s knowledgeable in swsh

[next stump]

IMO indeedee is overkill on this team but test it out and see if you agree

[nocturne holly]

Why do day you say that?

[next stump]

I think that team is at its strongest when it has multiple lead options that can pin different teams

with those 4, you’re basically putting all your eggs in the kyogre basket

whereas if you go something like pao/ursh/kyogre/tsareena/torn

you suddenly have matchups into almost everything

[nocturne holly]

Mhm yea I see what you mean

[nocturne holly]

How do you play against mirai and rilla with this tho

[timber falcon]

finally elo climbing with new ray team, hope things go my way

[hazy vector]

Me sadly

The same person who asked the question lmfao

[next stump]

I haven’t used the team myself but I’d imagine the solution is something like Torn + Scarf Oger

[nocturne holly]

I wanna play a more balance style kyogre team

So like av

[next stump]

then I think you don’t need Tsareena very much

Tsareena from what I’ve seen is mostly there to enable choice item Kyogre

you can just run Kyogre/Incin/Amoonguss/Rilla/etc. and go leftovers + calm mind

very very hard to break through, especially if you throw in Grimm

[balmy glen]

Tsareena was on the original balance variant the tangs had but it was kind of meh

you definitely dont use tsareena if your going grimm tho

[foggy lodge]

Try Electabuzz

[jade dust]

But double pure grass type is lack of coverage and no way to compete against opponents tailwind

Kyoger teams is one of those teams that need tailroom, just like terapagos

[next stump]

kyogre does not need trick room what

[bold geode]

It do not need TR bruh

[craggy dagger]

mmm
having terrain to block priority moves is the most innefficient imo
can be replaced really easily with rilla or mirai
Also wym kyogre wants tailroom
i have never seen a trick room kyogre this regulation

[timber falcon]

wtf

most creative low ladder shit ive seen in a while

[jade dust]

Kyoger is in the middle of speed tier, it isn’t fast enough to go first but not slow enough either. So tailroom is very beneficial to have as speed control

[bold geode]

Tailwind is all you need

[craggy dagger]

thats unfortunately not true

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 382: Kyogre

Type

Water

Abilities

Drizzle

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

100/100/90/150/140/90

Total

670

Other Formes

Kyogre-Primal

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

Pokémon No. 889: Zamazenta

Type

Fighting

Abilities

Dauntless Shield

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

92/120/115/80/115/138

Total

660

Other Formes

Zamazenta-Crowned

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[bold geode]

It's kinda in a speed tier that's a bit too awkward for Trick Room in the current meta

[next stump]

can you point me towards one TR kyogre team from a tournament

I haven’t seen any

[bold geode]

Only really works if like
The opponent sets TW

[nocturne holly]

Grimm is a cool idea I’ll try it

[craggy dagger]

using that logic
i guess its okay for me to run trick room rayquaza-

[bold geode]

Rayquaza is faster no?

[jade dust]

I wanted to run tserena but those fucking iron bundle with sash and miraidon always have icy wind come first. You aren’t beating anything that has tailwind themselves either

[craggy dagger]

by 5 points

its base 95

[bold geode]

That don't mean you run Trick Room
That means you run TW or you run something that can handle Mirai Bundle

[craggy dagger]

a way to handle mirai bundle?

[bold geode]

Ah
Actually

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 1000: Gholdengo

Types

Steel/Ghost

Abilities

Good as Gold

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

87/60/95/133/91/84

Total

550

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[jade dust]

If they have like a caly ice then obviously don’t allow trick room to go on but against Mira bundle you can’t beat that with tailwind

[craggy dagger]

theres a few things
scarf ground chi yu under tailwind is one

[bold geode]

Ah you can get around same speed stat as Goldie with Ray

[bold geode]

So you run teras that can help or things that can help against Mirai

[craggy dagger]

you can i have no clue what you mean

[jade dust]

Also caly s with tailwind, you can’t compete with that

[craggy dagger]

its called priority moves

[jade dust]

For that trick room works

[craggy dagger]

you're welcome-
i shall now take my leave

[bold geode]

Get back here

[craggy dagger]

76+ Atk Miracle Seed Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Iron Bundle in Grassy Terrain: 126-150 (95.4 - 113.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
whoa-
who could have guessed

[bold geode]

LOL

[jade dust]

They run sash lol

And protect to avoid fake out

[bold geode]

Hit em twice

[craggy dagger]

thats why you double into them

[bold geode]

Fake Out the Miraidon that usually don't run Protect

[craggy dagger]

if they protect then you target into the other slot no?

[jade dust]

But you’re already slowed down

[craggy dagger]

true

[craggy dagger]

wym
slow has nothing to do with priority moves
nor does it have anything to do with cleaning up

if you can live a hit

you're set to clean up the mess

[jade dust]

Ok so then what’s your lead? Besides rillaboom

[craggy dagger]

whats the team you're giving me?

and whats it against?

[jade dust]

We are talking miraidon and bundle