competitive_discussion

[autumn vault]

That was before Tofu made his statement about people explaining how to use our rentals

[mighty stump]

Well

Its not before

People just never fucking read the rules

So now there is even less of an excuse

[solid frigate]

most of us:

[autumn vault]

The team was posted before your statement, but fair points

[mighty stump]

Man

Shut up

Lol

My statement was the same either way

Just now even more blatant and there

[bold geode]

Wtf lol

[autumn vault]

Hello Avatar comp regular

[bold geode]

Bro can't read

[solid frigate]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2149187566

Yeah Electroweb is so good to have

[autumn vault]

I can read, i can understand what i read, no need to insult anyone

[bold geode]

[timber falcon]

Why does it seem like people on edge today

Spider senses are tingling

[bold geode]

So it's ok to insult others and their stuff, but I say one thing and you can't take it?
Don't dish out what you can't take bud

[bold geode]

Oh hey I was waiting for you

Explain this Rayquaza team

[timber falcon]

Okie dokie

https://pokepast.es/e915ce7b3d31a390 so this is the paste

[autumn vault]

Thats because you're Monke

(don't take this too seriously)

[patent marsh]

Asian friends calling each other insults on discord the moment they see each other go online 😭

[plain drum]

[autumn vault]

Plus it was an insult that was stupid

[timber falcon]

i started with okidogi to help ray in the first 2 ways

[autumn vault]

Go on

[bold geode]

The first 2 ways? What are those

[solid frigate]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2149190412
Close call

[bold geode]

🫵👁️👁️

[bold geode]

Me to Tofu all the time

[patent marsh]

REAL

[timber falcon]

okidogi would punish incineraor with guard dog and upper hand, it also helped against fairy MUs and knocking off caly-ice items whilst having incin at the back

[autumn vault]

Tofu as soon as he sees a person who is not amazing at the game and is not Drago or Emma:

[autumn vault]

Interesting

[timber falcon]

i dont think he discriminates btw lol

says things face value

[autumn vault]

It was an exaggeration

[timber falcon]

anyways lemme continue

[autumn vault]

Ok

[plain drum]

Attack the giant enemy crab at its weak point for massive damage /s

[timber falcon]

assault vest was there to take better care of things like fluttermane and other fairy type moves i didnt like.

[autumn vault]

Oh great, what are we doing now, hunting the Titan Klawf?

[timber falcon]

and since i didnt want a protect slot

[bold geode]

AV Dogi?

[timber falcon]

yes

[autumn vault]

AV Dogi has been done before so you're not insane

And it's not a bad idea if you ask me

[timber falcon]

Chien pao gave an obvious sword of ruin support and was also there to take care of farigiraf. i was thinking about lorb but decided i prefer sash for this set. also helped csr and cir MU with throat chop

incineraor was also there since if i wanted to set up ray (the main game plan) i would need some tempo control, furthermore it helpes my amoongus MU and currently has taunt but im not 100% set on it

[autumn vault]

If you don't like Taunt you can run Knock Off, Snarl or Will-O-wisp

[timber falcon]

ik

[balmy glen]

i liked okidogi CSR with something else when i was testing

[timber falcon]

5th was clefairy, i wanted something to not only help with specs miraidon but my tr MUs and rdirection for ray. after you helped in tr along with sing, and with tera ground it can be a formidible wall for specs miradons.

[balmy glen]

why sing when u can just after you and attack

seems less consistent ngl

[timber falcon]

eh sing also helps to control the tempo

outside of tr

[balmy glen]

i mean if u miss u get cooked and im not someone who likes anything below 90% acc

[bold geode]

Ok so imma stop you there

[balmy glen]

even 90% is sketchy

[bold geode]

Tera Ground Clefairy when

[timber falcon]

true, might replace witj HH

[timber falcon]

they arent gonna draco clefairy-

[autumn vault]

And encore lock it into electro drift and redirect it with Clef's follow me

[bold geode]

It's Specs

[autumn vault]

Or that

[bold geode]

Let's Encore lock the Specs yeah

[timber falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/brain-brain-cells-unlock-your-brain-gif-14425366

[autumn vault]

You didn't specify that it would use specs

[timber falcon]

i did tbh

[autumn vault]

Oh right

[bold geode]

Once again

[timber falcon]

anyways Monke enlighten me

[bold geode]

Reading is hard

[timber falcon]

Drago tried convince me yesterday it was a bad idea, i wanna see what u have to say

[plain drum]

Words of wisdom, truly

[mighty stump]

[autumn vault]

Drago loves calling you a brick wall, for some reason

[timber falcon]

its true lol

[bold geode]

Anyways, I wouldn't say this is really a great counter as you're basically making a HARD commitment to walling it when you could just use like AV Ting Lu and then do something else with Dogi like Bulk Up maybe or find an alternative to also help against Incin
Water Ursh actually has nice synergy with Rayquaza

Rayquaza turns off weather effects, meaning if Sun is up, Urshifu in Air Lock is still hitting SS at 100% while Ray is on the field

[timber falcon]

clefairy isnt only there for miraidon

[autumn vault]

You gained the following: Not being stupid and actually being smart
My respect

I like that analysis

[timber falcon]

also, the tera doesnt feel that hard if a commitment, as for such an MU what else would i use to tera

im reffering to the original miraidon core, or am i behind

yeah still seems relevant

[bold geode]

There's Hands now which could probably do something, hell I just think there's some things they can do now for that Tera
I just think if you really want a good Miraidon MU, then things like Ting or Rilla is more relevant
What else is Clefairy for

[timber falcon]

tr and redirection

[bold geode]

Y'know what's better in that situation

[timber falcon]

ik what ur gonna say

[bold geode]

So you have Rilla
Make sure you have something for Psychic Terrain
And E Speed

[timber falcon]

eh for terrains my plan is pao

[bold geode]

But yeah usually you can prio your way thru
But Clefairy, Incin, Ray, Pao, Okidogi, and what was the 6th?

[timber falcon]

gholdengo

[bold geode]

Tera on Goldie?

[timber falcon]

normal

[bold geode]

Ok so my problem instantly is that you don't really have much for CIR

[autumn vault]

https://tenor.com/view/rotating-skull-gif-24524852

[timber falcon]

wym

[autumn vault]

Idk who runs Tera Normal on Ghold

[bold geode]

Like sure you got Knock Offs and stuff but like it can still run thru it

[autumn vault]

Oh wait nvm

[bold geode]

A fuck ton of people actually

[autumn vault]

But still quite interesting

[autumn vault]

I said "Oh wait nvm" for a reason

[timber falcon]

how do you reccomend i fix it?

[bold geode]

Lyco just educate yourself before making these remarks

[autumn vault]

And educate yourself on your intelligence

[timber falcon]

ugh stop arguing like children

[autumn vault]

Sure

[bold geode]

You look even dumber when you make remarks like this and they wrong
Anyways back to OTOT

[mighty stump]

Okay

How about

You don't speak to each other

[autumn vault]

Fun fact: I did something related to that

[bold geode]

So first off, find another way to help out against CSR right
And then after that, try Tera Water Goldie as a start

[timber falcon]

i have a pretty comfortable csr MU though

but yeah i see how tera water dengo benefits be againt csr more than normal

[bold geode]

Well since you're moving away from Tera Normal Goldie if you do, you might wanna double check

Even that minor detail can change a lot

[timber falcon]

pao and incin should be enough, dogi can kill clefairies easily. dengo wasnt a main csr answer

[bold geode]

Right
Also what else is the problem hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Go from there, can't think of other problems rn
Honestly finding a Wide Guard user along the way can help some too

[timber falcon]

but is it neccasary

like any wide guard moves the team really dont like

else i dont see the point of restructuring

[autumn vault]

What is the team?

Sorry about forgetting it, i need a recap

[timber falcon]

https://pokepast.es/4196469a5de3d03b havent changed the tera yet

[autumn vault]

You want a Wide Guard mon right?

[timber falcon]

no

[autumn vault]

Ok

I don't think you need to restructure the team

[timber falcon]

im wondering if i gain more value from adamant pao

[autumn vault]

Looks good enough

[timber falcon]

why do people use jolly again????

dont wanna forget the cons

[mighty stump]

If you have Upper Hand why do you need Covert Cloak

Lol

[autumn vault]

Helps to outspeed the Raidons and some more stuff, idk

I know that far

[timber falcon]

oh yeah that was also supposed to change

[bold geode]

I mean just depends
Play around with it a bit

[autumn vault]

Wait a minute

Why aren't you running C-Amulet on Ray?

[timber falcon]

cause i want value from other items

i feel like CA restricts the mon a bit

[autumn vault]

Clear Amulet gives you even more value than the other ones

[bold geode]

No ClAm Ray is bad tbh

[autumn vault]

Especially since it blocks intimidate and speed drops

[nocturne holly]

Does bm ursa run max hp max sp atk

[autumn vault]

And also defense drops, if it ever happens

[timber falcon]

i feel like you guys overestimate intimidate

[autumn vault]

Most of the time

[nocturne holly]

I want some speed investment for tw but not max spe

[autumn vault]

But on Tailroom teams it runs 252 SpA and 252 Spe instead

[timber falcon]

like its not gonna destroy the whole plan, + i have a way of punishing

[mighty stump]

It's basically max

[mighty stump]

I mean

The damage rolls for +1 and +2 are two very different things

Lol

[timber falcon]

ik

[autumn vault]

True, but the issue is the fact that it can stop you from sweeping as easily and using another Swords Dance isn't great

[mighty stump]

Just because you have a way of "punishing" like Guard Dog

[autumn vault]

Especially since you can use that turn to kill more pokemon if you used Amulet

[mighty stump]

Doesn't mean they'll respect it/are afraid of it

It's not a true punish

[autumn vault]

Yeah

[timber falcon]

if push comes to shove rayquaza swaps out and dogi deals with incin?

can i do that?

[bold geode]

Yeah this is true

[mighty stump]

Yeah but why give it value in switching in the first place

[autumn vault]

A bit of a loss of momentum, not sure

[mighty stump]

Covert Cloak just means theyre not gonna click FO anyways

So you have 0 value from Upper Hand

[timber falcon]

yeah thats why i said im swapping cloak after u mentioned

[autumn vault]

Literally 84% of Ray run Amulet

With the follow up being Band but i much prefer Amulet over it

And Tofu has way more experience on Ray than a lot of us so he can speak why some things are better than others on Ray without issue

[bold geode]

I actually do too

[timber falcon]

i guess this depends on if any item can provide just as much value

which rn i cant see

[autumn vault]

But Amulet brings more Value

And it can help even without the danger of intimidate

[bold geode]

I've been working on Ray for like 3 weeks at least
I can say ClAm is better

[autumn vault]

Like speed drops, defense drops and other methods of dropping attack thats not intimidate or burns

[timber falcon]

what have u tried except clam?

[bold geode]

Nothing

[timber falcon]

yeah then its not a proper evaliation

[bold geode]

I've kept ClAm

[mighty stump]

ClearAm just retains the Swords Dance boost so you don't actually have to click SD more than once to threaten

[bold geode]

Huh wym

[mighty stump]

Lilke

[autumn vault]

I always used C-Amulet

[mighty stump]

You don't need to literally use different items to be able to evaluate it

[timber falcon]

you said you can confirm its better, but all you can confirm is that it works

[mighty stump]

Okay

[bold geode]

Yeah
If it ain't broke don't fix it

[timber falcon]

true

[mighty stump]

Can you confirm that Chimecho is good in VGC

[timber falcon]

no

[bold geode]

Idk but what about it's pre evo

[mighty stump]

That just means you suck at the game

LOL

[timber falcon]

i see what mistake ive made lol

[mighty stump]

Can you confirm Combusken is good in VGC

[timber falcon]

i get it

dont have to use something to know viability compared to others

[bold geode]

If I said what I was gonna say, Tofu would block me lmao

[mighty stump]

The whole point of building understanding, and understanding the interactions, you need to be able to make those judgement calls

And evaluate accurately

Like you can easily look at games you've played

and then replace your items mentally

and see if they game would have played out differently

[timber falcon]

people do that?

[bold geode]

Yes
We're all mental

[mighty stump]

You shouldn't be taking forever testing sets, it's just time inefficient

[timber falcon]

lol

[bold geode]

Wtf

[autumn vault]

That weezing guy was cooking

[mighty stump]

Also whenever I evaluate teams at a glance I basically mentally use it

[timber falcon]

so people DO use wheexing

[bold geode]

Tofu is more mental than others

[timber falcon]

ah so im thinking too much

[mighty stump]

Weezing is there to stop Armor Tail so you can spam E-Speed freely

[autumn vault]

Using N-Gas to block Armor tail and Tsareena/Bruxish's ability
Tofu told me of that interaction when i asked for advice on my Ray team

Oh wait too late to say that

[mighty stump]

Or related abilities

[mighty stump]

There's no harm in sticking to your guns if you really want to try it

[timber falcon]

oh yeah true

[mighty stump]

But same thing: after you use Covert Cloak, if you form your own judgement, is it really the most efficient judgement?

Or the most correct evaluation?

That's all subjective as well, and statistics are never the full truth, it's just data

But there is always weight to usage stats

[timber falcon]

Omfg my Incin still doesn’t have intimidate

[autumn vault]

https://tenor.com/view/rotating-skull-gif-24524852

[mighty stump]

Like already one of the interactions you desire which is being able to click Upper Hand with Okidogi is less likely if an opponent sees Covert Cloak, so in this one scenario: Clear Amulet holds value to punish attempts to stop your permanent pressure

[timber falcon]

True I didn’t think that through

[chrome knot]

tofu i think imma play overwatch instead

[timber falcon]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2149212658-gwg81lfl2j66ysp2lr1x2ykbp6ebgilpw the game, i dont think i did very well

[mighty stump]

Wish I had time to play video games

I'm sitting here on Discord while doing some company courses

[chrome knot]

im laying in bed till work ngl

[autumn vault]

That turn one play was a little risky clicking that Knock Off onto a mon that is not weak to it, but it atleast payed off, even if you got punished with the burn

[bold geode]

Vibes

[timber falcon]

It was obvious dengo was gonna scout

It’s facing 2 dark types

[autumn vault]

And i did not expect Ghold to live the Stellar Boosted Throat Chop

[timber falcon]

Oh wait just 1

[autumn vault]

One

[timber falcon]

IKR

[mighty stump]

Bro why did that Gholdengo live Tera Stellar TC

[timber falcon]

That dengo was beefed up

[autumn vault]

You should have attacked the Weezing

It burned your Pao

[timber falcon]

Wanted dengo gone that turn since it couldn’t protect

[autumn vault]

And ghold could have been handled later since it used Nasty Plot

[timber falcon]

Wheezing I didn’t percieve as too much if a threat

[timber falcon]

How was I supposed to know it would use that

[autumn vault]

And KO'ing the weezing would have given you the SoR buff back

[autumn vault]

Fair, but your Pao is sashed iirc

And Dogi was AV

[timber falcon]

Yeah, still didn’t wanna take the potential of it hitting me hard down

Needed dengo gone for ray

[autumn vault]

And the Blaze

[timber falcon]

😭

[autumn vault]

But that was a skill issue not picking Intimidate

[timber falcon]

I even said I’d change it yesterday

Poor from me

[autumn vault]

Ik i accidentaly sent the wrong Pagos spread before on my rental but atleast it was very minor (just pagos' ev spread being slightly wrong but still very efficient), the no intimidate was not good for you and would have probably costed games

[timber falcon]

Yeah I also noticed the turn Ray terad, I could’ve gone knock

If I had intimidate Ofc

Would lower attack

[autumn vault]

Yeah

But you still won despite a few errors

[timber falcon]

I’ll try one more game then get back to revising

[autumn vault]

And learned from your mistakes

And also i shouldn't be that one person to scold you about your mistakes, i'm barely above your level

[clear fulcrum]

Hey anyone here got all the scarlet witch exclusives it’s the only Pokémon I’m missing in paldea Pokedex

[mighty stump]

#sv_discussion #trading_sv_pokedex

Or making a trading post

[gentle crag]

🔨 Banned dollarmonke indefinitely

[bold geode]

Oh no

[solid frigate]

F

[bold geode]

Guys I'm banned

[solid frigate]

lel

[autumn vault]

LMAO

I love Rotom sometimes

[timber falcon]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2149220233-b84mmfje7mfk62551wp366amdij7fa8pw good W

[autumn vault]

And sometimes i wish that it didn't give reps to people that said thanks without expressing gratitude

[autumn vault]

Could have protected on the 2nd turn, it would have still helped out and Okidogi would have been able to atleast do good damage against Whim or Koraidon

[timber falcon]

no

i did think of it but#

[autumn vault]

Could have also Tera Normal too

[timber falcon]

koraidon had just burned a protect, me protecting would have allowed it to protect after

on turn 2

so i went for the kill

[autumn vault]

You could have attacked Whim with Dogi and then E-Speeded it to KO it

[timber falcon]

on which turn?

[autumn vault]

2nd turn

[timber falcon]

why would i leave the koraidon open lol

[autumn vault]

Because it wouldn't be able to attack ray

[timber falcon]

it would-

[autumn vault]

Because you tera normal

[mighty stump]

Ray is pretty good into Koraidon

[autumn vault]

Taking out the Whim would be beneficial

And like tofu said, it does good against koraidon

[mighty stump]

You shut off Orihalcum Pulse and resist the common set

[timber falcon]

so koraidon wasnt a threat?

oh wait it really wasnt a massive problem was it

[autumn vault]

You tera normal in the second turn and it used c-course on the ray slot

[autumn vault]

It wasn't that big of a threat

[timber falcon]

lol i see what u mean now, i didnt have to sac ray

i shouldve prioritised whim?

[autumn vault]

Yeah

[timber falcon]

but then again having korai dead helped in the long term

[autumn vault]

Shut off Tailwind support and encore support

[timber falcon]

chi-yu and flutter combo didnt happen cause whim stayed on the field

[autumn vault]

While also losing out on Fairy STAB but that didn't matter much thanks to fluter

[autumn vault]

Would have been the same, Korai Chi-Yu

[timber falcon]

yeah i am seeing what potentially wouldve helped

anyways ive gone past the time i allowed myself to indulge in pokemon, sorry for the abrupt leave

got bio and chem tomr, cya

[autumn vault]

The reason i don't have the same elo as you is because of bad luck and i'm on a break from vgc

[autumn vault]

Bye, have a great day

[bold geode]

Yeah but then it dies and I cry

Oh no guys, my Clash of Clans village is being raided

Yknow

The one I forgot was even there

I actually got a couple of friends I met on Clash of Clans I wish I still talk to after Clash
They were some chill people
Sadly after Clash, I never talked to them again

[polar nest]

i am doing well with this (maybe meta is fun still) https://pokepast.es/140110faf12dded3

[stark kindle]

Bad village then innit

[bold geode]

Yes
Yes it is

[violet smelt]

do you guys have any ubers teams with miraidon????

[jade dust]

Tera electric Cresselia is fun

Cresselia was always a real good support and now is even better

She is one of the best trick room supports for being really hard to KO in one round and being able to run Mental Herb due not needing evolite

[solid frigate]

Tera Electric?

w h a t

[jade dust]

Yes, she has levitate

No weakness unless you have a mold breaker with ground moves

Or Zygarde

[mighty stump]

https://tenor.com/view/shikonokonoko-konstaga-gif-13148079283731984622

[solid frigate]

sure its a decent option but fairy is objectively better

[jade dust]

Eh electric makes her more tanky

Power steel types are really dangerous

And even then iron head is great coverage

[solid frigate]

I mean tbf make sense

[jade dust]

And heavy slam

[solid frigate]

tho for me using Pagos,i don't really Tera Cresselia that much

its either Urshifu or Chi Yu if i don't Tera my Terapagos

[jade dust]

Yeah I don’t either but it’s great in some situations like with Miraidon

[solid frigate]

it makes sense

its actually used little bit when i look at munchstats

[jade dust]

Those electric attacks won’t do much to Cresselia if Tera electric

[solid frigate]

lemme check

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Miraidon Electro Drift vs. 252 HP / 76+ SpD Tera-Electric Cresselia in Electric Terrain: 91-108 (40 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Well if its below boosted E-drift then yes

i could consider that as my option on Cresselia

[jade dust]

Needing 3 rounds to KO is a lot still

Specially since she has reliable healing

For some reason they thought she needed a buff and have her lunar blessing

I would argue it’s one of the best support moves now

1/4 healing to herself and ally plus curing status is huge

Running clear amulet CalyrexG and you have an unstoppable sweeper that can be cured of burn by Cresselia

[solid frigate]

i run Terapagos Cresselia

well at the moment with Safety Goggles

and Cresselia is a good niche

[jade dust]

Ah yeah for amoonguss you need safety goggles specially if you’re running trick room

[solid frigate]

lemme show my team

[jade dust]

Spore is hilarious

[solid frigate]

https://pokepast.es/5cd9a1d14480d59a

the one i am using rn

https://pokepast.es/6f78d2177bbbb5db
New one

[jade dust]

Is that a half trick room team?

[solid frigate]

Tailroom

Pagos's Speed is good in Both TR and TW

[jade dust]

Eh not really

It’s in a bad speed tier

[willow vault]

A good amount of teams, with reatricteds with middling speed go for both tailwind and trick room

[jade dust]

Not low enough to be reliable in trick room

And not high enough to compete in tailwind

[solid frigate]

tailwind Pagos Outspeed the Bikes-

[jade dust]

80s spd is a shitty speed tier

[willow vault]

I mean you click tr when you see faster teams without strong tr answers, and click tailwind against teams you can speed creep with tailwind

[jade dust]

Yeah but if your opponent uses tailwind as well

Then he can’t compete

[willow vault]

Then trick room

[solid frigate]

are you trying to persuade me to drop Speed control on my teams?

[jade dust]

Not really, I’m just stating that Terapagos has a pretty bad speed stat in both sides

I would argue 80s spd is the worst speed tier

[willow vault]

I’d say 90 is debatably worse

[solid frigate]

tell that to Dialga and Palkia-

WHO USES TR

[willow vault]

Can confirm I run Palkia trick room

[solid frigate]

and Dialga as well

[jade dust]

90 is trash too but more workable since you can use scarf and +spd nature

[jade dust]

Yeah and they aren’t good legendaries lol

[willow vault]

You really want 100 for scarf, to outpace Urshifu

[jade dust]

Dialga and Palkia are underwhelming compared to the other restricted legendaries

[solid frigate]

Double Restricted Palkia is very good for support,same with Dialga

Caly Ice Dialga when

[jade dust]

Idk why but seriously they feel like, not very good in general

Dialga should be broken but it’s just a mid legendary

[solid frigate]

they are good in other ways,

Palkia is just cursed to have inaccurate Moves

Dialga is better but the speed are worse for TR

[jade dust]

Hydro pump needs a buff

[solid frigate]

nope its perfectly fine

[jade dust]

Reduce its power by 10 and give it better accuracy

[solid frigate]

give Palkia Scald back and good

[jade dust]

No

Fuck scald

[willow vault]

Pleaseeeee

Hydro pump is giving me depression

[jade dust]

Keep that move in the dust

[willow vault]

Why?

[jade dust]

I hate hydro pump cuz that 80 accuracy feels like 50 accuracy

[solid frigate]

Scald is just a better Water Move

[willow vault]

It was a good move, helped slow down physical attackers, but wasn’t too strong either

[jade dust]

It only hits half of the time

[solid frigate]

which Palkia has worse Physical Bulk than Special Bulk so its a good upgrade

i rather gamble on Burn than gamble on Hitting

thats what Groudon Players are like

[willow vault]

Agreed

I miss scald

[solid frigate]

i feel bad for water types rn cuz its my favourite Type out of 18

[willow vault]

Outside of Kyogre, it just feels like special water types are really hard to run without scald

It was there go to water stab

Losing out on scald hurts

[solid frigate]

yeah some water types got nerfed from that so its fair

[willow vault]

Like some water types did need it removed but Palkia was not one of the mons who needed scald removed

[jade dust]

I think flying needs some help as well. There are barely any reliable flying attacks in both physical and special. Physical Flying types that aren’t birds have 0 flying moves and special ones only have air slash and hurricane. We need an actual good flying move that aren’t brave bird and a special one as well

[bold geode]

Me in my car

[jade dust]

Just make a standard physical and special flying attack

Flying is really trash offensively

[willow vault]

Like the moves yes, but flying as an offensive typing is very good, being able to hit grass and fighting 2 very common typings for super offensive is great, especially for pokemon like Tornadus or Iron Jugilus who are often on rain teams and so can take advantage of full accuracy hurricanes and bleakwind

[solid frigate]

Brave Bird is already good enough

for Physical

[willow vault]

It’s a great offensive partner to water types especially

[jade dust]

But non birds fly have 0 stab moves

In SwSh they had max airstream but before that they had nothing

Gyarados might be just a pure water type

[solid frigate]

bro just deal with it honestly

Like some Flying types like Landorus don't run that

[willow vault]

I mean in gen 7, they had flyinium z

[solid frigate]

not all flying types need to run a flying type move

Gyarados and Lando are the main ones who does not have a flying stab (Tera do save them with Tera Blast)

Also Articuno in Uztek Regionals only run ice Moves

[jade dust]

Yeah it always had to be a gen mechanic to have stab flying

[willow vault]

Also oblivion wing is probably my favourite flying type move in pokemon history so I like some of the moves

[jade dust]

Flyinium z, max airstream and Tera flying

[jade dust]

Yeah and part of the reason why they fall off as more mons become legal

They are good in only early metas

If anything at all

[willow vault]

Torn is a top 10 usage pokemon currently

[jade dust]

Wasn’t he irrelevant in this whole gen since he became legal at the same time than Incineroar?

[solid frigate]

Pelipper top 12

[solid frigate]

huh?????

HE ONLY LEGAL IN REG D-

[willow vault]

No????

[solid frigate]

and Torn got buffed from PLA

[willow vault]

Tornadus + Urshifu was the team for a reg, it’s a great speed control still

Debatably 2 regulations

[solid frigate]

and Pelipper is a reliable Water flying type just like Gyarados

[rustic mountain]

incin doesnt invalidate torn either

[willow vault]

It’s great for caly ice especially

[rustic mountain]

not sure where u got that

[solid frigate]

Covert Cloak Torn go crazy

[willow vault]

Tornadus is one of the Pokémon least affected by Incineroar

[jade dust]

Yeah cuz he puts rain which makes hurricane accurate

[solid frigate]

you can debate that Urshifu does not really effect cuz Surging Strikes and Wicked Blow

[rustic mountain]

incin invalidated stuff like gyrados, lando t and harc but some of that is also just power creep, they all saw success at different points in the sv meta

[willow vault]

Does for close combat though

[solid frigate]

but eh i mean at least its not that effected

[willow vault]

Harc won like 6 majors in a row right

[rustic mountain]

yea

[willow vault]

Harc was stronk

[jade dust]

Yeah which is the good Landorus for doubles

[rustic mountain]

lando i has been more consistent id say this gen

[molten oasis]

They’re both good but incarnate is better rn

[solid frigate]

Scarf Sheer Force Go brrr

[willow vault]

Life orb aswell

[bold geode]

[rustic mountain]

lando t is a good mon but not good into the current meta, its the same thing for a mon like heatran

[willow vault]

My boy, nooooooo

Wish Heatran worked in the meta rn

[solid frigate]

wish Heatran is better but eh i mean we do have Incin

[jade dust]

He’s good when incineroar isn’t around

[foggy lodge]

I found a team of Terapagos+ 5 supports lmaooo https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024reggbo3-2149266790

[jade dust]

Idk why Incineroar got knock off again

[solid frigate]

they do seperate things

[jade dust]

Like if he needed a buff

[solid frigate]

all supports?

[foggy lodge]

Even the Araquanid

[solid frigate]

omg what am i seeing-

[foggy lodge]

The Araquanid supports with wide guard😭

[willow vault]

Odd

[solid frigate]

what am i looking at

Where is the chi yu ;-;

[rustic mountain]

its definitely declined since incins introduction but it was still used in gen 8 a decent amount even w/ incin around. really just depends on the format

[foggy lodge]

It still win the game 1 because i played horribleeee

[solid frigate]

fair

but like Pagos Chi-yu is just so damn good

Basically Portable Specs

[willow vault]

It feels worst for regular arcanine, it was the most used mon the year before Incineroar got intimidate, next year strictly outclassed no reason to use it

[solid frigate]

huh when would the new Switch name as Nintendo Chi Yu

[willow vault]

Probably not

[rustic mountain]

id agree for the most part yea tho i will say some ppl opted for arc into zacian in gen 8 cuz u resisted both stabs

[solid frigate]

ik i'm just joking about Treasures of Ruin being Portable AV,Specs and Band

[willow vault]

Huh good to know, I honestly forgot about that

[rustic mountain]

nd atleast it has time to shine in regional formats b4 incins inclusion like early sv arc-shroom-palafin balance was like the thing

[willow vault]

That was such a smart team but it could really just expose the better player difference, which at the time did not benefit me

Probably still doesn’t

[rustic mountain]

haha fair enough, gta jus play those kinda teams and get better in those areas tho

[foggy lodge]

Who was shroom?

[rustic mountain]

the team was good but the mirror was annoying at times lol

[solid frigate]

i think there is only one shroom (two forms) exists

[willow vault]

I was relatively new to vgc at the time, so better player diff was very real

[rustic mountain]

amoongus

[foggy lodge]

Ahh yeah

[rustic mountain]

gotcha

[foggy lodge]

Annoying asf

[willow vault]

I’m pretty sure the skill gap has diminished significantly since then,

[rustic mountain]

thats wats up

[solid frigate]

anyways Fake Tears or Encore for Whims?

[polar nest]

i made dis and im getting consistent wins https://pokepast.es/140110faf12dded3

[willow vault]

Fake tears, makes me less sad, so encore I guess

[rustic mountain]

i remember making some crazy reads w/ that team and it was so satisfying haha, so much switching in the mirror specifically u could kinda gauge wat was gna b switching where

[solid frigate]

ah yes

[willow vault]

Those games sometimes felt like they took 30 minutes

Wild amount of switching

[rustic mountain]

different utility, u either want encore to facilitate more favorable board states (denying tr, forcing switches etc) or jus opt to blow things up w/ fake tears

[willow vault]

Fake tears pair it with Koraidon, they won’t expect it

[foggy lodge]

Bullet Punch+ Psychic terrain? xd

[polar nest]

is it bad

[rustic mountain]

im repeating it in a similar sense w/ this wo chien ogre team i yoinked recently

[willow vault]

Don’t have any special attackers, they will never know

[willow vault]

Nice

[rustic mountain]

2 games have gone to timer in like 2 days w/ the team lmao

[polar nest]

bad or good

[solid frigate]

eh i'll try both,Encore seems to work better for me

[willow vault]

Some games I’ve have been playing have been like 20-25 turns when I play well enough

[rustic mountain]

well the reads arent as heavy for this team, u really jus go for damage trades and dot w/ wo chien and such

[foggy lodge]

Psychic terrain protects the pokemon from priority moves

[polar nest]

opponents too?

[willow vault]

That makes sense

[solid frigate]

unless they are flying

or Levitate

[foggy lodge]

Yes

[polar nest]

o

[willow vault]

For my team it just depends if Palkia decides to hit a move or not

[polar nest]

maybe drop indeedee?

[willow vault]

Some games are like 5 turns some are like 5 turns and I lose

[polar nest]

idk if scizor gets another low pwr steel move

[willow vault]

Very interesting dynamic

[rustic mountain]

yea its just similar in the sense of defensive pivoting wo chien/incin-ogre being the fwg that amoongus, palafin and arc were

[willow vault]

Is it quadruple dark?

[rustic mountain]

yes

which hurts me inside

[willow vault]

Maybe try Clefairy

Clefairy is very good with shadow rider

[rustic mountain]

id say the best csr teams rn have clefairy

[willow vault]

Oh that is stally, if it works it works I guess

We take those

[polar nest]

ok

[solid frigate]

Live Wo-Chien moment

[willow vault]

We’ve both used enough wo-chien to understand the win con isn’t pretty but it works

[rustic mountain]

yea ive overall done well w/ the team. got top 500 on sd w/ it and so far have a positive w-l (think 7-2 or 7-3 i forget) record on cart from wen ive been able to play. its jus a taxing team to play cuz games generally go for longer periods of time

[solid frigate]

i have wo chien addiction lol

[willow vault]

That’s pretty damn good

[polar nest]

any1 have a decent clef set i have grab

[rustic mountain]

i hadnt used wo chien b4 this

finally have used all 4 ruin legends

[solid frigate]

i haven't used Ting Lu

but i used Pao,Chi Yu and Wo Chien

[rustic mountain]

its solid, def not playing the team as well as it could be i feel in certain games

[willow vault]

Chi-Yu is probably my most used, I love piloting it with rillaboom, it feels so solid

[willow vault]

Probably a tough team to pilot at the highest level

[rustic mountain]

yea idt imma get to shiliang lvl w/ it

[solid frigate]

Chi Yu>Wo-Chien>Chien Pao

I used Chi Yu the most

[willow vault]

That team was mental

[rustic mountain]

and i wanna try out other restricteds b4 the format ends like pagos, zama and miraidon

[willow vault]

It was clean but damn, it was mental

[rustic mountain]

yea hes such a good player tho and him and justin have been tweaking it since early reg g

[solid frigate]

do pagos

[willow vault]

Damn, they be cooking

[rustic mountain]

i see the merit in it, tho idt i could have the mental fortitude to do as well as he did at a regional w/ it

[willow vault]

It seems taxing to play

I played against it, the game was 28 turns just to lose, that one hurt

[polar nest]

Clefairy @ Eviolite
Ability: Friend Guard
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 12 SpA / 84 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Follow Me
• Heal Pulse
• Helping Hand
• Draining Kiss
  this is the set i made, idk how to build it tho

[rustic mountain]

that and ur gna get crits/rng eventually against u cuz u generally are slower. and wen ur in winning positions otherwise it can get tilting

twave grimm def can help balance that tho

[rustic mountain]

lmao yea that shit sucks

[rustic mountain]

i mean i will, idk bout next tho

[willow vault]

Probably want a different move that draining kiss, also grass Tera

[rustic mountain]

prolly gna wanna break out the shiny zama i got from last gen

[willow vault]

Ooh

[polar nest]

ok, what move?

[rustic mountain]

also can use my shiny galar moltres

[polar nest]

do i use moonblast

[willow vault]

Can go after you, sing I usually run protect

[polar nest]

ok

[willow vault]

Me when dragon cheer palkia

Finally a winning situation

[rustic mountain]

haha i faced a dragon cheer miraidon team

iirc i won anyway

[willow vault]

That is evil

It’s not evil on Palkia because it bad, on Miraidon that weird

[rustic mountain]

i mean miraidon is better fs but i think its still bad onnit in general

[willow vault]

Probably

But Palkia forces out niches

[rustic mountain]

wasting a turn dragon cheering and especially for miraidon a lot of times u wanna pivot outta dodge, not stay in and take damage or lose terrain

[molten oasis]

when is dragon cheer good in the first place

[willow vault]

Because it’s not good enough

Best thing about Palkia is its typing

Worst thing is hydro pump (and it stats), why no scald

[molten oasis]

no scald for the big guys ig

[rustic mountain]

i think palkia directly contributes on meta countering in the sense of like, if something like kyogre is doing well, palkia gets better, otherwise that thing is jus not doing anything really

[molten oasis]

kyogre's doing ok tho

[rustic mountain]

also dmax meant it couldnt miss hydros

[willow vault]

Regular Palkia literally has so little usage, it’s not on munchstats anymore

It’s sad

[rustic mountain]

oof

[willow vault]

Yes other form is better I don’t really care

I hate it, should of never been made

[molten oasis]

maaaaaybe they get more usable in double

like enough to be usable

[willow vault]

It won’t be good either way

[molten oasis]

cuz everything gets better in double

[rustic mountain]

new form is an abomination

[willow vault]

Give me scald and I can make it work

[molten oasis]

dialga got a fork in his neck or smth

[willow vault]

So bad, design wise

Like looking at their stats, it makes me depressed

[rustic mountain]

the design on both is terrible

[molten oasis]

they're not anything special i think

[craggy dagger]

[willow vault]

Why is the awful design so much better stat wise

[willow vault]

Let me cope

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 484: Palkia-Origin

Types

Water/Dragon

Abilities

Pressure, Telepathy (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

90/100/100/150/120/120

Total

680

Base Species

Palkia

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[rustic mountain]

well i mean like both the origin forms

[willow vault]

Oh, cool I agree

[craggy dagger]

if you combine the two origins-
aren’t they supposed to look like arceus or smth?

[molten oasis]

yea i mean, ig you're fairly fast and bulky but thats like, normal for a restricted

[rustic mountain]

do they?

[willow vault]

Look at regular Palkia, they gave the origin an extra 20 stat points for no reason

[molten oasis]

how do you fix the dialga neck thing for that lol

[willow vault]

Clearly the designers didn’t get the memo

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 484: Palkia

Types

Water/Dragon

Abilities

Pressure, Telepathy (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

90/120/100/150/120/100

Total

680

Other Formes

Palkia-Origin

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[molten oasis]

eh well also i think with palkia and dialga, they just got power crept

CIR is just the tr guy

[rustic mountain]

dmax helped them in swsh

[willow vault]

True but I’m just mad that the origin exists

[craggy dagger]

well no
you gotta fuse them together

[molten oasis]

Lunala and dawn wings exist

[rustic mountain]

jus seems tough for them to find a place rn

[molten oasis]

maybe in double when they dont have to carry

[willow vault]

What would you even pair with Palkia in double restricted?

[rustic mountain]

its possible

but i think the stronger jus get stronger u know?

[molten oasis]

CIR lol

[molten oasis]

yea ik

[craggy dagger]

like this-

[molten oasis]

thats the other issue

[willow vault]

Nooooooo, I have to become an ice rider player

[craggy dagger]

eh close enough

[molten oasis]

[willow vault]

Forgive me

[molten oasis]

theres nothing wrong with it

[willow vault]

I guess

[rustic mountain]

[willow vault]

It feels morally wrong

[molten oasis]

why

using the good things is fine

[willow vault]

I hate horse form palkia and now I have to use a horse

No

[rustic mountain]

atleast its actually a horse and not some centaur esque montrosity

[molten oasis]

ah you mean in that sense

[willow vault]

Yeah

Ice rider is fine

[molten oasis]

double restricted will be fun

[rustic mountain]

u could argue cir is the best restricted in the format'

[molten oasis]

i think it is

[rustic mountain]

id still say csr is better but

[willow vault]

You could

[rustic mountain]

def one of the horses

[molten oasis]

its the most consistent imo, between the both of them

yea, busted fucking mons

[rustic mountain]

ye

[willow vault]

Both very good, to the annoyance of many

[molten oasis]

i hate them but i cant change anything about it

just gotta learn how to beat them

[rustic mountain]

45mice tweeted yday or earlier i forget that urshifu and the caly forms shouldnt of been allowed post dmax cuz it feels like ur throwing not having both on ur team

[molten oasis]

zac is fine into both of them at the very least

[willow vault]

Run five incineroars with a calyrex of your own, you beat both Calyrex forms

[molten oasis]

i feel that hits more towards shifu but yea

shifu's so oppressive at times

[rustic mountain]

i dont necessarily fully agree tbh since there are sufficient checks to both but i understand the sentiment that yea they are inherently busted mons

[willow vault]

Agreed, like the ability for Urshifu made sense in dynamax were max shield stopped Urshifu damage, but now it doesn’t make sense since the mechanic only worked in gen 8

[molten oasis]

defensive play? what

im gonna hit you anyway

should be resisted into the spot that protected

[rustic mountain]

unseen fist just needs reduced damage thru protect, then id say its fine

[molten oasis]

yea

[willow vault]

I agree

[rustic mountain]

dont completely destroy the ability

but make it more balanced how it is as an interaction

[molten oasis]

mhmm

[willow vault]

Just make it work better around protect, which is the mechanic that makes Pokemon vgc work best

[rustic mountain]

calys idk wat u do w/ them outside jus nerfing stats or taking away the boost on ko

[solid frigate]

Yeah thats just-

[willow vault]

Like protect is what allows pokemon to be played competitively imo

[molten oasis]

nerfing stats for sure

[rustic mountain]

could make lance and barrage 100 bp

[willow vault]

I’d make 95 bp, just looks like a more balanced number to the eye

[molten oasis]

we'll see if game freak even decides to try and nerf them

[willow vault]

No logistics

[solid frigate]

probably not

[willow vault]

Probably gonna buff Urshifu

And Incineroar, again, again. Can’t believe it got buffed twice

[rustic mountain]

nah they aint getting nerfed. csr didnt get touched after winning worlds in 2022 and cir jus got a slight decrease in damage on lance

[solid frigate]

the second one sounds more like a balanced change

[molten oasis]

right lance used to be 130

[bold geode]

Honestly hot take
If they don't have Raging Bolt in future gens of comp, then Urshifu could need nerfs at least on Rapid side
If it is, then no need

[molten oasis]

i hope raging bolt comes back

i like raging bolt

[solid frigate]

even then they need to make an Excuse to bring the Paradox Pokemon back like how they did with Ultra Beasts in SWSH

[bold geode]

Yeah but like
I think Bolt existence balances out Urshifu Rapid

[molten oasis]

or they jsut make them transfer only stuff

[solid frigate]

Yeah Bolt and Wellspring kinda helps on maintain Urshifu in Check

[bold geode]

I mean they don't explain why Zamazenta is in Paldea technically, just made it transfer

[molten oasis]

wellspring isnt really much of a shifu check

[rustic mountain]

theres gastro, waterpon, rilla, etc idt it all hinges on bolt.

[molten oasis]

shifu can kinda just u-turn away from wellspring

or CC

[bold geode]

Yeah but like
Bolt strongly threatening with TClap

[solid frigate]

same can be said on Bolt with CC but eh it tanks better

[molten oasis]

bolt is gonna hit it with prio

bolt is more of a threat to shifu than wellspring is

[bold geode]

Like we can change typing now, but in future gens, unless they keep tera (which probably won't tbh) then I imagine you're gonna be dancing around prio a bit

[molten oasis]

honestly

i like tera, its a good mechanic

[rustic mountain]

i get it but i dont think it is all on 1 mon for that

[solid frigate]

they might only exists in side games like Megas in Legends or just remakes

[molten oasis]

i cant wait to be able to hit things with zac without having to worry about tera fire

[solid frigate]

Flexible and all can use it unlike some mechanics

[molten oasis]

hate it

damn horse

[rustic mountain]

prio has checks too whether its ko, psychic terrain, prio block in giraffe or tsareena

[foggy lodge]

I'm pretty sure paradox will come back atleast for gen 10

[molten oasis]

yea, still

[bold geode]

Yeah I guess what I mean is just the fact like for example
It threatens it
Basically just balance out Urshifu with threats to it

[rustic mountain]

i could see paradox mons not existing in any game ever again tbh lmao

[molten oasis]

would mind not seeing flutter or hands again

[rustic mountain]

i think if this gen is any indication they def have been doing that

[molten oasis]

although id miss bolt

[solid frigate]

no flutter mane lmao i am fine with it

[rustic mountain]

realizing urshi w/o dmax needs better mons as checks

[foggy lodge]

Is like a pattern that game freak has? That this "special" pokemon like new legendaries or ultra beasts come back atleast for the next gen

[solid frigate]

tho i will miss Bolt,Crown and Boulder

[foggy lodge]

Well it's not a pattern because it has only happened one time

[autumn vault]

Fair since the UBs got ditched
Koraidon and Miraidon woul return a lot though

[molten oasis]

tapus

i wish tapus were in the game

[autumn vault]

Ditched for Gen 9

[foggy lodge]

I do not

I just miss Tapu Fini

[autumn vault]

What are Tapus?

[molten oasis]

but then all terrains are viable

[solid frigate]

but like how can it return? we know there are only 2 of them in Paldea we don't know if they are gonna be a third one

[bold geode]

Like Reg D "hey Rapid Strike busted"
Each DLC added something to give Shifu a harder time

[autumn vault]

Raidons are legends, the others aren't

[solid frigate]

Ogerpon,Bolt:I'm here to beg them differ

[molten oasis]

tapu koko would have been so fun too

[foggy lodge]

Thunderclap exists just because of Urshifu

[autumn vault]

So it would make sense

[molten oasis]

could care less about tapu lele tho

[solid frigate]

ahem xerneas,ahem Yveltal,ahem Zygarde

[rustic mountain]

i think box legends have a much better chance at returning then the very specific circumstance of paradox mon encounters. they can circumvent that like they did w/ das nd ubs in swsh but itll be interesting how they choose to go about that going forward cuz having the tapus/ubs/paradoxes all in the same game sounds wild haha.
we are getting to a point theres so many mons and subsequent legends that everything being in the game let alone allowed in vgc is prolly not gna happen

[autumn vault]

Tapu Bulu is non existant when Rillaboom is around

[molten oasis]

we're already seeing that so, yea

[autumn vault]

Fair

[molten oasis]

like no xern or ubs this gen

[autumn vault]

But i would not miss Flutter Mane one bit

[foggy lodge]

Maybe a nerf to the paradox pokemon but idk i think there are many pokemon that need a nerf over the paradox pokemon lol

[molten oasis]

(which is fine fuck xerneas)

[bold geode]

I mean it'll be gen 10 next so honestly
It being wild would be interesting

[solid frigate]

I love them all but like

Sure Xerneas isn't here is good but why they aren't here begs the question on why

[autumn vault]

Flutter Mane and Raging Bolt do need nerfs
Slither Wing and Iron Thorns desperately need buffs

[solid frigate]

and i don't think its for Balancing,Xerneas is pretty mediocre in SWSH compare to XY and SM

[autumn vault]

Rest are fine except maybe hands

[rustic mountain]

i think its less about the restricteds tho, in the case of the gen 6 ones as ive stated plenty b4 its more their interaction w/ the tera mechanic, specifcially xerneas and zygarde. ill eat my words if they start doing the same for future gens but as of now, this is the only time i believe theyve left out prior gen restricteds in the modern vgc era

[autumn vault]

Because of Zacian and D-Max hurting it more than it helped Xern

And also other reasons i'm not aware of

[bold geode]

That's another thing I have liked about the metas recently
Honestly you can figure out an answer for everything

[autumn vault]

You're not wrong

[solid frigate]

yeah none of them are left out before until Rn

[bold geode]

Like even Urshifu in Reg D
Amoongus, Will O Wisp

[molten oasis]

oh xern and zygarde would have been busted with tera

[autumn vault]

I wouldn't mind Calyrex and Xerneas dissapearing for good

[rustic mountain]

nd it seems to stand to reason those mons w. tera would be terrible for everything

[autumn vault]

And Yveltal, i dont want to imagine the damage those 3 can do with tera

[dapper crag]

Ability: Fairy Aura

While this Pokemon is active, the power of Fairy-type moves used by active Pokemon is multiplied by 1.33.

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[craggy dagger]

by active does it mean its partner in doubles as well-

[solid frigate]

Bronzong when Xerneas can Tera into Tera Fire:My time has come

[molten oasis]

yes

[solid frigate]

yep

[autumn vault]

Tera helps too many things, even busted mons that dont need it

[molten oasis]

pretty sure it affects the whole field

[solid frigate]

as a Xerneas user before,it does

[bold geode]

Basically just the fact that like it's hard to say that there's not an answer at all for something
You can figure out an answer for something, then you can figure out an answer for the answer, then an answer for that answer and so on

[autumn vault]

FlutterXern would be a terrifyin duo

[craggy dagger]

fairy aura tera fairy specs proto SpA dazzling gleam

[autumn vault]

And YvelPao/YvelYu would also be very dangerous

[solid frigate]

yeah i am gonna hate that

[molten oasis]

eh

[autumn vault]

Thats why

[molten oasis]

maybe yvel chi yu idk about pao

[craggy dagger]

def not pao

[solid frigate]

these are manageable,Yveltal is more supportive i think

Zygarde tho- Hooooo boi

[autumn vault]

Yveltal chien pao would be spamming priority and murder Psyspam

[rustic mountain]

yea p much haha, csr is much more manageable knowing any dark move just punts it into oblivion. now a snarl is shrugged off by cloak and tera fairy while they nasty plot/cm in ur face

[craggy dagger]

gambit better

[molten oasis]

and i feel like yvel wants to be bulky no?

[autumn vault]

Zyagarde the bulky-ass boi

[solid frigate]

yeah and its more supportive

[rustic mountain]

jus creates a different approach to how u beat those mons

[solid frigate]

i would use Zygarde over Pagos if he is in SV

[molten oasis]

CSR, bleh

[autumn vault]

I would use Zygarde with Tera just to bully Miraidon players

[molten oasis]

CSR and CIR dont deserve tera lol

[autumn vault]

And also Clef

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 718: Zygarde-Complete

Types

Dragon/Ground

Abilities

Power Construct

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

216/100/121/91/95/85

Total

708

Base Species

Zygarde

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[autumn vault]

ClefGarde seem like a strong duo

[solid frigate]

the bulk can make Terapagos literally cry

[autumn vault]

It puts everythint except chan/bliss duo to shame

[molten oasis]

at least its attack stats are mid

[solid frigate]

i used Comfey Zygarde before when i wanna try Unkillable Zygarde

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 1024: Terapagos-Stellar

Type

Normal

Abilities

Teraform Zero

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

160/105/110/130/110/85

Total

700

Base Species

Terapagos

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[solid frigate]

you have to use Tera tho

[autumn vault]

And you can argue that Zygarde's bulk is better due to having way better defense

[molten oasis]

ok, im gonna go play elden ring now

[solid frigate]

Zygarde you can still change forms without Tera

[strange fjord]

The offensive stat that makes Zygarde cry

[molten oasis]

https://tenor.com/view/peace-out-gif-22295199

[solid frigate]

well not as much as the bulk on Zygarde

[bold geode]

Aight
What you using for dub restricted

[autumn vault]

The bulk allows Z to set up a bunch so not as much as you would think

[strange fjord]

All forms of zygard have the same attack. terapagos, who is a special attacker, has higher attack than zygarde

[solid frigate]

i kinda wanna Build a Pagos Zygarde Team for some reason just for fun

[foggy lodge]

Anyways id like to get some opinions about this team, is Keanu's team but i replaced Latios with Volcarona to help with the Caly-Ice match up and the mirrors https://pokepast.es/8a05147cbbd5de7c

Idk if i should make the team faster in general

[molten oasis]

What are you using

[bold geode]

What you think

[molten oasis]

Idk, what are you using

[solid frigate]

at least you have to Tera to get to that SpA

Zygarde can just do that and can keep the Tera

It can be unkillable lol

[bold geode]

Drago it's obvious lol

[rustic mountain]

im thinking off rip, csr/zama and cir/ogre also ogre/zacian

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 249: Lugia

Types

Psychic/Flying

Abilities

Pressure, Multiscale (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

106/90/130/90/154/110

Total

680

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[molten oasis]

Fucking tell me

[strange fjord]

bulk isnt everything

[bold geode]

CSR Zama

[molten oasis]

Ah, ok

I’m planning on experimenting with Zac

[solid frigate]

i mean you can always run D-Dance or Coil

[molten oasis]

And uh

Any of the dragons/kyogre

[strange fjord]

lugia can run calm mind and even at +2, its not hitting hard

[bold geode]

Actually funny thing is I was thinking about it
Chi Yu can hurt both Caly S and Zama, but you could basically pressure it by sending both out at the same time maybe

[molten oasis]

Mind game

[autumn vault]

Lugia is like the 3rd worst legendary since it needs way too many Calm Minds to hit super hard

And has bad typing and too much bulk and lacking offenses

[solid frigate]

i think i used Zygarde to trap opponents before but eh

[molten oasis]

Ill be lurking, gonna try to beat the 2 headed dragon today before work

[rustic mountain]

it can but u got 4 other mons + tera

idk if gambling ur restricteds on t1 like that is beneficial overall

[strange fjord]

zygarde needs coils to set up, lugia and zygarde have 10 point stat difference in offense

[molten oasis]

I think zac Mirai is something I heard someone talking about

[autumn vault]

Zygarde also has DDance, it got something to help offenses and speed

[solid frigate]

but the thing is,Zygarde have something to trap opponents

[rustic mountain]

might have some merit

[autumn vault]

And way better typing

[bold geode]

Yeah
Idk I'm kinda like trying to figure out what sets I'd even run

[autumn vault]

With a Quad weakness

[dapper crag]

Move: Thousand Waves

Prevents the target from switching out. The target can still switch out if it is holding Shed Shell or uses Baton Pass, Flip Turn, Parting Shot, Teleport, U-turn, or Volt Switch. If the target leaves the field using Baton Pass, the replacement will remain trapped. The effect ends if the user leaves the field.

Type

Ground

Category

Physical

Power

90

Accuracy

100

PP (max)

10 (16)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Does not make contact.

SableyeBot version 4.28.0

[bold geode]

Like do I set up Zama
Set up Caly
Or both

[molten oasis]

Probably CSR

[rustic mountain]

i think w/ power construct, coils, clear amulet, tera and healing, zygarde would be a headache to deal w/, might take u a bit to get there but prolly can jus sweep teams if u put urself in an advantageous position. i think xerneas is the one who really would be the oppressive one tho

[bold geode]

Kinda wanted to have Snarl Caly, but like idk
Probably gets fucked by Wide Guard

[rustic mountain]

they either opted to not have them in by association w/ xerneas or it has something to do w/ lza and they maybe get thrown in at the middle or beginning of next year

[bold geode]

Y'know
Wolfe's Tera Water Blast set actually caught my eye lol

[solid frigate]

its just basically Zygarde can Walk so Pagos can run-

[autumn vault]

It could be both

[bold geode]

Also it's hard to decide cuz like
I'm also used to IDBP Zamazenta and that's less of a speed tie thing

[rustic mountain]

well if the latter happens, it has nothing to do w/ tera balancing cuz theyd eventually be in the games and playable

so it really cant be

[autumn vault]

Fair

[mighty stump]

Ok but most importantly, Snorlax needs Wide Guard

[bold geode]

But idk
I just know CSR Zama is the play

[solid frigate]

also just saying

Xerneas would look absolute fabulous in SV models

[autumn vault]

Snorlax having Wide Guard atleast makes sense

[mighty stump]

#tofudiditfirst

[rustic mountain]

im loving shiny kyogre sv model

[strange fjord]

*Munchlax 😉

[bold geode]

When

[autumn vault]

Both

[rustic mountain]

its cool in every gen but its so clean in sv

[autumn vault]

Both is good

[mighty stump]

Do you really need to do this again

[solid frigate]

the models get a massive upgrade honestly

[strange fjord]

Anything Munchlax gets can be transferred to Snorlax

[solid frigate]

they look more realistic

[strange fjord]

buff the little guy lol

[rustic mountain]

a lot of them look really good

[autumn vault]

We all want our underwhelming favourites to be buffed

[bold geode]

I mean you told me about it but like
I know you ain't do it before

[autumn vault]

So it makes sense for Tofu to want a buff for Lax

[mighty stump]

Models just need to have some life to em

[daring pumice]

My fav is overwhelming🔥

[solid frigate]

even Urshifu looks so comfy i love it

[mighty stump]

How tf am I supposed to do it before when the format isn’t even out

[bold geode]

Yeah
Got em

[solid frigate]

but Greninja looks the same eh i mean its fine

[rustic mountain]

im talking strictly apperance but yea they could use some more activeness/liveliness to their models

[autumn vault]

A good chunk of pokemon look better in SV than previous 3D gens

[solid frigate]

mhm

[autumn vault]

And it made Garchomp's shiny more noticeable

[mighty stump]

I meant the information you human cave dweller

[autumn vault]

Which is a win for Chomp fans

[rustic mountain]

chomp shiny still sucks tho

[mighty stump]

Model textures look good

I just think they’re going in the wrong direction

[rustic mountain]

in wat way

[solid frigate]

eh its ok they tried to make it slightly more obvious

[autumn vault]

Still not a great shiny but better than before

[rustic mountain]

ig

[mighty stump]

I feel they should be weighing more on the style/stylised aspects rather than to add realistic textures to models that don’t really express much

So in that way, it’s all about the expression of the model overall that retains a sense of charm inherent to the Pokemon

[autumn vault]

I agree

[solid frigate]

i do wanna see Xerneas in SV model

Like it would look so damn fabulous

[rustic mountain]

yea i definitely see what u mean

[mighty stump]

Rather than “oh look you can see Rayquaza’s scales as it floats like a jpeg”

Have you been seeing that one BDSP modder?

On twitter?

Shit looks gas

https://x.com/theyisusone/status/1790381594982731822?s=46&t=NSIK9f9OViHUJnm37QZcEQ

Yisuno ⚝ | PBR ENJOYER (@TheYisusOne) on X

Tried animating Palkia like this and I made it look... weirdly intimidating for a Pokemon model

Twitter · May 14, 2024, 2:00 PM

Like easily

[bold geode]

Actually Tofu I thought of something stupid for dub restricted
Tera Ground Blast Caly S

[mighty stump]

https://x.com/theyisusone/status/1800528452866433097?s=46&t=NSIK9f9OViHUJnm37QZcEQ

Yisuno ⚝ | PBR ENJOYER (@TheYisusOne) on X

Now that we can get the animations from PBR, I wanted to test if I could make them work with the modern Pokemon models

Twitter · Jun 11, 2024, 2:00 PM

[mighty stump]

Sounds fine to me

[solid frigate]

yeah no wonder it looks familiar

[mighty stump]

Its like Water Tera Blast

Or Fighting, if you’re weird

[bold geode]

Yeah threaten not only Incin like Water Blast but also helps against Miraidon and Zamazenta, which Miraidon and Ice Rider gonna be

[molten oasis]

last 7 letters of his name

[bold geode]

Cuz Zamazenta even without ID, at +1 Defense, Zama still can handle Ice Rider so

[mighty stump]

I don’t like the fact you’ll tera into an Ice Weakness but WG Zama is nice so

[bold geode]

Yeah might go setup Caly and WG Zama instead of setup Zama

Meaning I'll have to practice with both to know wtf I'm doing lmao

[foggy lodge]

I love that

[bold geode]

Yeah also Zamazenta is pretty nice into Ice Rider anyways so in that MU I'm kinda more worried about Mirai tbh

[mighty stump]

I mean CSR is favourable into Mirai so

[bold geode]

Yeah
I mean there's 3 duos we've said would be strong, I sorta feel like that format will be a bit of a tug of war per se between em

[molten oasis]

Zac ogre is by far the weakest of the 3, I think was one that was named

[bold geode]

Yeah
The rope will probably be tugged more by the other duo
Hell if anything here's how it goes ok

You got CSR Zama and Mirai CIR ok
That's Kendrick vs Drake, meanwhile we got Zac Ogre sitting over on the side like J Cole

[molten oasis]

Ic

[bold geode]

If anything, Zac Ogre will be like CIR rn
Can't tell if it's the greatest or not, but it should usually be pretty consistent
At least that's my thoughts

[molten oasis]

It won’t be the greatest but sure

[bold geode]

Hell basically rn CIR is like well
Rn you have a work environment right
You got everyone working pretty hard, and then CIR is the Dave of the bunch

Dave's a good worker

But it's debatable if Dave is getting employee of the month

But y'know he's a hard worker

But it's also nice cuz CIR is like the one restricted that's probably changed the least lol

Like aside from the teams that lean more into the Trick Room, like the Electabuzz team maybe or like Hard TR variants, we've seen basically the same formula/basically team have good results
Like there might be slight alterations, but the comp is still the same

Which is honestly cool

[molten oasis]

Beat the dragon

[molten oasis]

Yea I agree

I like the format and how diverse it can be

[bold geode]

Yeah but I also like how like
CIR ain't change lmao

[molten oasis]

Yea, CIR gonna be the same beyond its Tera probably

Sometimes it’s fire, sometimes it’s water, sometimes it’s grass

[bold geode]

Tom pulled out the Tera Dragon on me lol

[molten oasis]

LOL

[bold geode]

And I'm just like "yeah fuck it why not"

But yeah I can give a sorta top 5 with this for Worlds

Like honorable mentions are Zacian and the bikes

Saying Zacian solely cuz of its performance in LA

Like it'd be nice to see a sort of underdog story but it's out there

And the bikes are hard to put there, but I think the 5 trump it a bit

[molten oasis]

Miraidon isn’t in the 5?

[bold geode]

But
1st CSR
2nd CIR
3rd Terapagos
4th Kyogre
5th Zamazenta

[molten oasis]

I think the 5 are the horses, Pagos, Mirai, and then zama

Not sure on kyogre personally

[bold geode]

Zamazenta cuz like a combo of like even though it's not the greatest, with right player/comp it could probably win
It's in a decent setting to do so at least in NA side cuz Zamazenta can match up decently into the two restricted that made finals of NAIC

I think Kyogre is 4th cuz like
Resisting Glacial Lance naturally RN is good plus Kyogre has had influence here and big influence as well in Japan

There was the CM set, the AV set, the Tera Ice Blizzard set

[molten oasis]

Ah, that’s fair