competitive_discussion

[strange fjord]

lemme see that Pikachu team. i want ideas 👀

[solid frigate]

Fast Taunt Greninja(Gen 6)
Booster Brute Bonnet(Reg C)
Weakness Policy Metagross (Reg F)
Bright Powder Sand Veil Garchomp (Reg E)
Lorb Meow (Reg F))

[gentle crag]

woodtofu (ID 250386799363489808)

[Message](#rental_teams message) in #rental_teams
Team Name: Pika-Rain
Rental Code: JK3JT5
Format: VGC Regulation F 2024
Pokepaste/Pokebin:https://pokebin.com/97c422c80e2cce3f
Notes: https://tofu-snorlax.hatenablog.com/entry/pikachupower

Command triggered by woodtofu. Message from · Mar 19, 2024, 4:28 PM

[solid frigate]

and Heck I USED MEOWSCARADA IN REG F

[mighty stump]

Someone used this and won their event

Blink

[solid frigate]

Tofu you can vouch for me that you removed my first rental in Reg Fthat has Meowscarada because i did not give the rental code right?

[mighty stump]

The only rental I ever removed for being actually garbage was from 2 people and one of them was because they were also rude

The rest were just because they didnt follow the format

To explain: the format isn't there just for willy nilly, it just makes life easier when you wanna search in the search bar

[solid frigate]

Meowscarada @ Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Flower Trick
• Sucker Punch
• Triple Axel
• Brick Break

Yes don't mind why i use this set

[mighty stump]

Displaying information nicely is one of the few pleasures on this world

[solid frigate]

fair

like its fine to use off meta stuff and post it in rentals

As long as Info is displayed Nicely its ok

its just how your Piloting works

[strange fjord]

but I never got my pilot's license

[solid frigate]

Nova,Full Eevee Team in Reg D

[solid frigate]

plus idk if Cresselia is Meta in Reg G or not

Seen some popping up

[mighty stump]

• If you want to use off-meta stuff, there should be justification and reasoning. Niches/Techs have to be explained and they have to perform consistently>

• If you're just blindly picking then that mon just has 0 place on the team other than just being there, therefore it's just being carried which is just dishonest

• If you can't explain why, you probably shouldn't be teambuilding.

• If you didn't get a decent result with it, it's probably cause you're not good enough to play with your favourites yet

• If this sounds gatekeepy, suck it up, that's the nature of the game.

[solid frigate]

yea

its just Deal with it honestly

[mighty stump]

It doesn't even matter how specific of a use your mon is executing

as long as it's doing something

patching something

[strange fjord]

Cosmog in tears rn

[solid frigate]

Cosmoem if it gets Body Press:

[mighty stump]

If you have an extremely solid core and you barely have matchups that need patching, then you can have the most niche/specific counters for that in your slots

Team slots are a resource; Every set you make is a resource being spent from moves to items to tera choices in both the team and gameplay

[solid frigate]

wait does Cresselia counts as like Meta in this Reg-

[mighty stump]

Not really

It doesn't fall under Most Effective Tactics Available

[solid frigate]

i think like during in class when i was building my team and i want a healer that is not Comfey and i just think of Cresselia

i know its good in Reg D-E

and one of my personal favourites,Plus doing fairly good in Ladder so its locked in the team

[strange fjord]

Personally, I love using Sinistcha as my go to healer just because it randomly survives things every time I think its dead

[solid frigate]

Cresselia also is bulky and can cure status Conditions

and i honeslty Loved it

[strange fjord]

252 SpA Flutter Mane Shadow Ball vs. 228 HP / 220 SpD Sinistcha: 134-158 (76.5 - 90.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If I see booster speed, I know I'm livin'

[solid frigate]

and some People like OTOT and Lyco are interested on My thinking on Cresselia Terapagos

[mighty stump]

y is paoshifu easy mode

[solid frigate]

252 SpA Calyrex-Shadow Astral Barrage vs. 252 HP / 76+ SpD Cresselia: 134-158 (59 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
108 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 76+ SpD Cresselia: 138-164 (60.7 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 252 HP / 180 Def Cresselia on a critical hit: 168-200 (74 - 88.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[molten oasis]

Paoshifu strong

[solid frigate]

Sword of Ruin Nerf,Great Offensive Core (Ice Dark+Water Fighting),Surging Strikes Crits meaning that it does a buttload of damage

[mighty stump]

That was a rhetorical question

[solid frigate]

oh-

[mighty stump]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2135867650-x8qye6t7nmt9nj0ximjwwm2nljwxoshpw What even is this Urshifu

[solid frigate]

Endure???

REVERSAL oml

[molten oasis]

[solid frigate]

i really have to stop being that nerdy-

[mighty stump]

High elo really just be playing either CSR or Terapagos there is literally no in between

[timber falcon]

is rotom heat good into caly-s

[mighty stump]

If you mean Caly-I, its okay

I prefer Wash since it doesnt die to Pelipper

[timber falcon]

i thought a fire core would be good here to deal with caly-i and rilla

[solid frigate]

Yep Caly S,Terapagos and Caly I are top 3 restricted

[timber falcon]

lmao custap berry endure shifu

and to pull it together reversal

[mighty stump]

CIR non-existent

Lol

[timber falcon]

yeah csr has over double the usage all of a sudden

[solid frigate]

i mean it won a regional and a special event

[cyan smelt]

maybe i should put snarl and AV on ting-lu now then

[lofty tartan]

I just sunk a Terapagos with Lunala >.>

[timber falcon]

i mean despite being a restricted (going off munchstats) its the 6 most used mon

[timber falcon]

how is this possible

[molten oasis]

That sounds so fun

[lofty tartan]

Uhhh. How is it not?

If it can do damage, it can take kos; if it can take kos, it can win games

[solid frigate]

Either that turtle Player has some skill issue

[lofty tartan]

What?

[solid frigate]

or Herbie just played well

[lofty tartan]

[timber falcon]

put pagos bulky

[lofty tartan]

Lunala is also bulky.

[timber falcon]

touche

[lofty tartan]

I had CM they had Specs.

[timber falcon]

oh

[lofty tartan]

+1 was all I really needed.

[mighty stump]

Lol

Why are you guys talking as if Lunala is some easy matchup for Terapagos

What

[lofty tartan]

I just didn't click Tera

[solid frigate]

ok fair-

[timber falcon]

im not

[solid frigate]

i think its Neutral for me

[timber falcon]

i think its a bad MU

cause u cant go STAB and stuff

Rotom-Heat @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 12 Def / 4 SpA / 60 SpD / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Overheat
• Electroweb
• Will-O-Wisp
• Protect

hows it looking

not 100% set on wisp yet

maybe vswitch better

[mighty stump]

You know Wash does the same thing without dying to Pelipper.

[timber falcon]

but

it doesnt hit rilla + caly + amoongus as hard

[mighty stump]

Ok lmk how Overheat does in Rain

[timber falcon]

i mean, i did calc to outspeed all pellis if that helps

[mighty stump]

You have no investment, you're not planning on hitting hard

Pelipper has Sash

[timber falcon]

hm

[cyan smelt]

also caly can tera to avoid wisp

oh wait is it usually tera grass

[mighty stump]

Doesn't matter for Wash, you hit SE for Hydro after.

[willow vault]

Hello

[timber falcon]

im still conflicted over typing

hello

[willow vault]

How are you

[timber falcon]

im fine thanks, wbu

[willow vault]

I’m ok

[timber falcon]

good to know

what r ur thoughts on rotom?

[solid frigate]

holy crud i can go to school at noon lol

[timber falcon]

wym

[solid frigate]

i only have class during 12:45

[timber falcon]

speaking of school i gotta go rn-

[timber falcon]

college?

[solid frigate]

well sorta schedule

[solid frigate]

see ya

[willow vault]

Cya

[solid frigate]

i am still stuck on dusk mane

[lofty tartan]

Somehow rank 1049 on cart ladder with Lunala Balance

[true niche]

no calyrex ice rider in top 8 damn

[solid frigate]

turtle stonks

[willow vault]

It’s awful just move on

[mighty stump]

Pagos/CSR is the face of HO

[willow vault]

I like seeing dragapult in top 8

[charred saddle]

no miraidon?

or did u only count spreads

[mighty stump]

CSR bodies Miraidon

[charred saddle]

does a +1 cm live a electric tera e drift?

i assume it does with bulk investment right

[mighty stump]

Probably not but it's not an issue if you just kill Miraidon first

Lol

[charred saddle]

hmm

[solid frigate]

tortol

[mighty stump]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2135935205-g8wbmqk63yj20q44sik8nzqpjxd8bqcpw the 1/3 roll goes wild

[violet smelt]

252+ SpA Choice Specs Cryogonal Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Miraidon: 182-216 (104 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

chat am i cooking?

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 615: Cryogonal

Type

Ice

Abilities

Levitate

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

80/50/50/95/135/105

Total

515

SableyeBot version 4.27.1

[charred saddle]

its not even faster than miraidon

and they can always tera out of dragon, which in most cases they will

usually fairy or electric too

[violet smelt]

ok now seriously when are they adding special body press

[cyan smelt]

ting lu seems to be working out better than rotom-w

[graceful flare]

Is covert cloak good on torn if I have protect on it

Shoukd I swap out booster energy for covert cloak on my raging bolt bc it don't have protect

[mighty stump]

For CIR?

Or just in general

[cyan smelt]

in general, it seems a better fit

no way would i bring ting-lu against cir

[mighty stump]

Had to check

[cyan smelt]

helps against special attackers heaps

i think CIR pelipper is still tough though

[mighty stump]

Team?

[cyan smelt]

i'll send paste in a sec

https://pokepast.es/509b4f1f20bc0de5

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 487: Giratina-Origin

Types

Ghost/Dragon

Abilities

Levitate

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

150/120/100/120/100/90

Total

680

Base Species

Giratina

SableyeBot version 4.27.1

Pokémon No. 487: Giratina

Types

Ghost/Dragon

Abilities

Pressure, Telepathy (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

150/100/120/100/120/90

Total

680

Other Formes

Giratina-Origin

SableyeBot version 4.27.1

[south shuttle]

wow

power creep goes crazy

[mighty stump]

Interesting

I don't see why CIR would be hard if you're running Zama though

[cyan smelt]

last time i played against it pelipper slaughtered me with weather ball

[autumn vault]

As a Koraidon/Kyogre player i hate it, when i play Zekrom (my first main) I love it because its free real estate (free kill)

[south shuttle]

As a singles player, i dont see it much to have an opinion

👍

[autumn vault]

What about Archaludon Pelipper and Barraskewda in Gen 9 OU? Obviously before arch was banned

[south shuttle]

i did see some used

i even used a similar team in ubers

pelipper is pretty good damage

i used the hydro pump set because i forgot weather ball exsisted

[south shuttle]

that team goes really well in nat dex too

with swift swim mega swampert

[dapper crag]

Ability: Fur Coat

This Pokemon's Defense is doubled.

SableyeBot version 4.27.1

Pokémon No. 53: Persian-Alola

Type

Dark

Abilities

Fur Coat, Technician, Rattled (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

65/60/60/75/65/115

Total

440

Base Species

Persian

SableyeBot version 4.27.1

[molten oasis]

idk what you're cooking but stop

[south shuttle]

?

[molten oasis]

what value does alolan persian bring

that incin doesnt

[south shuttle]

120 defense?

maybe not 120

but halved damage in physical attacks

[molten oasis]

still not worth, incin has a better typing and has intimdate

[south shuttle]

plus its not bipedal

[molten oasis]

[south shuttle]

thats an automatic W

[molten oasis]

what does that have to do with it

so

its better because its bipedal?

[south shuttle]

i wanted to see if any other pokemon have it

[molten oasis]

what fur coat?

[south shuttle]

yes

[molten oasis]

nothing good really gets fur coat

well, nothing that would work well

yea

cuz its only alolan pursian

and furfrou which isn't in the game

[south shuttle]

who knows

[molten oasis]

i just looked

[south shuttle]

it will become the next pachurisu

[lofty tartan]

[molten oasis]

[south shuttle]

you will see

alolan persian will take over vgc

[lofty tartan]

Pachirisu was a meta call. Alolan Persian doesn't do anything impactful in the meta.

[south shuttle]

especially with quash

[lofty tartan]

It's a horrible comparison and I hate that example being used as "play your faves"

[molten oasis]

non prankster mon with quash and slower than like

most of the things you'd want to quash

[south shuttle]

run scarf

💯

[molten oasis]

[south shuttle]

ima make an alolan persian team

if this thing is actually good

[molten oasis]

its not

[south shuttle]

thats what they said about chandelure 😭

[lofty tartan]

Who?

[willow vault]

Huh???

[lofty tartan]

Chandelure does things. Like wall Koraidon.

[south shuttle]

ppl that i asked

[molten oasis]

yea i dont remember people saying chande was bad

[lofty tartan]

You asked people who didn't know much

[molten oasis]

fire ghost good typing

[south shuttle]

probably

[willow vault]

We said it was niche but it was a useful niche

[molten oasis]

perisian is not a useful niche mon

its just bad

[south shuttle]

but persian is a cool mon

[lofty tartan]

Persian isn't even a niche mon. It doesn't specialize in doing anything particularly well because what it does is done better by better things.

[molten oasis]

that sucks

[autumn vault]

No, it isn't

[willow vault]

Cool doesn’t equal good

[molten oasis]

our favorites arent always good and they rarely are

[autumn vault]

Persian is ugly, especially the alolan form

[willow vault]

I love sandshrew, but that doesn’t make it good

[autumn vault]

I love Emboar

[south shuttle]

rayquaza

[autumn vault]

And Garbodor

They aren't good

[molten oasis]

ray is decent what???

[lofty tartan]

Garbodor is awesome.

[willow vault]

Emboar has a great shiny atleast

[south shuttle]

yes im saying its good

[autumn vault]

Emboar's shiny > All the other starter shinies

[molten oasis]

...ic

[willow vault]

Garbodor has the really cool gigantimax form right?

[autumn vault]

garbodor is definetely overhated

I love my trash bag

[lofty tartan]

I wouldn't say all other starter shinies, but it's really up there on my favorites.

[south shuttle]

its just more trash

[willow vault]

Exactly

[autumn vault]

Literally and figuratively

[molten oasis]

garbodor isthe trash mon

[willow vault]

He like me, that’s why I enjoy

[lofty tartan]

People didn't hate Oscar the Grouch just because he smelled bad and lived in a trash can.

[autumn vault]

People just have beef with man-made objects being pokemon for some reason

[south shuttle]

idk why

[molten oasis]

they do?

[lofty tartan]

[south shuttle]

they are mostly awesome

[lofty tartan]

Why isn't Rotom Phone a pokemon?

[willow vault]

I mean my favourite mons are sandshrew, pangoro and Escavalier, Escavalier is probably the best competitively but it’s niche most of the time

[autumn vault]

M(F)uck is terrible compared to garbodor

[molten oasis]

cuz its our phones and therefore we cant use it in battle ig

[lofty tartan]

That's stupid.

[molten oasis]

i would like to see more rotom forms

[lofty tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-dumb-will-ferrell-gif-13829869

[south shuttle]

it changes colors, i think its pretty awesome

[molten oasis]

yea with miraidon being usable, and its a bike

you use

[dapper crag]

Ability: Power of Alchemy

This Pokemon copies the Ability of an ally that faints. Abilities that cannot be copied are As One, Battle Bond, Comatose, Commander, Disguise, Embody Aspect, Flower Gift, Forecast, Hunger Switch, Ice Face, Illusion, Imposter, Multitype, Neutralizing Gas, Poison Puppeteer, Power Construct, Power of Alchemy, Protosynthesis, Quark Drive, Receiver, RKS System, Schooling, Shields Down, Stance Change, Tera Shell, Tera Shift, Teraform Zero, Trace, Wonder Guard, Zen Mode, and Zero to Hero.

SableyeBot version 4.27.1

[molten oasis]

[lofty tartan]

Alolan Muk is awesome.

[willow vault]

I love it’s typing

[molten oasis]

its team comps are not

[willow vault]

True

[molten oasis]

minimize spam is, so annoying

not that its good just annoying

[lofty tartan]

I don't mind them. Just Heavy Slam them or do like bleakwind/sandsear in rain if you got it. Just use moves without accuracy checks or taunt him

[autumn vault]

My favourites are Excadrill Zekrom And Emboar

None of them are stellar

[molten oasis]

sacred sword too

[south shuttle]

emboar is very surprising

[molten oasis]

i think, sacred ignores evasion

[south shuttle]

although i do like its shiny

[lofty tartan]

Sacred Sword would ignore the evasion because it's boosts, I'd wager.

[molten oasis]

it shouild yea

[south shuttle]

isnt evasion banned

[lofty tartan]

But yeah there's counterplay and at least it doesn't float to the top of the pond, if you catch my drift

[willow vault]

Not in vgc

[lofty tartan]

Nothing is banned in VGC.

[mighty stump]

Or just dodge the matchup

[molten oasis]

vgc uses everything, except mythicals

[lofty tartan]

That's hand-in-hand with it never floating to the top

[south shuttle]

thats dumb

[lofty tartan]

Once you get high enough you never see Muk.

[molten oasis]

no its not

[south shuttle]

mythicals are great

[lofty tartan]

Most mythicals are really bad.

[south shuttle]

at least on showdown should be allowed

[lofty tartan]

Like in a competitive sense.

[molten oasis]

mythicals have limited distrubution so they dont allow them since not everyone gets access to them

like, its very hard to get victini i believe

[south shuttle]

marshadow is the main reason

[lofty tartan]

Only a handful of Mythicals would ever be relevant.

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 802: Marshadow

Types

Fighting/Ghost

Abilities

Technician

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

90/125/80/90/90/125

Total

600

SableyeBot version 4.27.1

[molten oasis]

that would be, probably

[south shuttle]

when was the last time you could get it?

[molten oasis]

idk thats why i said that

[dapper crag]

Move: Spectral Thief

The target's stat stages greater than 0 are stolen from it and applied to the user before dealing damage.

Type

Ghost

Category

Physical

Power

90

Accuracy

100

PP (max)

10 (16)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Authentic

Bypasses substitute.

Contact

Makes contact.

SableyeBot version 4.27.1

[lofty tartan]

I think Gen 5.

[molten oasis]

probably

[willow vault]

I think your right

[mighty stump]

Mythicals are lame anyways

[lofty tartan]

^

[molten oasis]

fr

all we need is pao shifu

[south shuttle]

couldnt you get it in swsh?

[lofty tartan]

No. You could get Keldeo, right?

[molten oasis]

yrs

[willow vault]

Yeah

[molten oasis]

keldeo is obtainable through crown tundra

[lofty tartan]

The only mythicals that I really care about are Volcanion and Marshadow and I got my Mythical22 set locked away

So that's fine.

[south shuttle]

victini was some promotion wasnt it?

[molten oasis]

most of them are

[south shuttle]

in swsh

[lofty tartan]

It was an event/distribution like all other mythicals.

You probably could as a limited event.

[molten oasis]

pretty sure pecharunt was the only one released that was just, obtainable in game

unless that was also a lte

[lofty tartan]

Pecharunt still follows the them.

Something you receive from a distribution/event.

[molten oasis]

yea

[lofty tartan]

Just no code.

[mighty stump]

Pecharunt is probably the only Mythical I like

[molten oasis]

banger theme

[chrome knot]

pecharunt added cool music

[mighty stump]

Still wouldn’t use it

[chrome knot]

biggest contribution as a mythical

[mighty stump]

Then I went and caught Terrakion to grt the Unova theme

Banger

[chrome knot]

other than meloettas relic song in bw

[molten oasis]

that theme goes so hard

[lofty tartan]

I guess I'm pretty impartial to Pecharunt. I don't like or dislike it, particularly.

[chrome knot]

wish sv gave us every theme available for the legendaries

catching necrozma gives ultra necrozma theme would bd great

[molten oasis]

i like the galar birds theme a lot, wish we could have gotten that

[lofty tartan]

Yeah man

I want my Galar bird tunes

[molten oasis]

fr

i'll take what we got tho tbf

lots of great tracks from this game

[south shuttle]

pla tracks had no buisness being that good

[molten oasis]

i didnt listen to tracks from pla much

[south shuttle]

the noble fight theme is amazing

[molten oasis]

i listened to volos theme a little bit but that wa it

[autumn vault]

You guys have good taste in poké music

I really like the Sinnoh Legend theme from PLA

And also Dialga-O/Palkia-O themes

[lofty tartan]

SV has quite a few jams

[molten oasis]

my personal favorite is ruinous legends

[lofty tartan]

Arven's theme is a banger

[molten oasis]

but i also like carmine's theme and the champions theme

[south shuttle]

yeah sinnoh is nice

[molten oasis]

arven's theme is really good too

[lofty tartan]

Arven and Carmine find their way onto my ladder climbs a lot. But mostly it's like AI Professor, BB League E4, Kieran 2 or 3, or Terapagos 2. Sometimes Ruinous Legend/Pecharunt/Cassiopeia

[autumn vault]

I really like Kieran's theme

And also the professor's theme

BB league is also pretty good

[molten oasis]

oh yea, kierans themes are so good

[lofty tartan]

They are very good. Yeah

[autumn vault]

The 3rd one is what i listen to before i get to master rank

[molten oasis]

MAGNEMITE HIT YOUR THUNDER SHOCK

[autumn vault]

Outside of that it's Zekrom theme

[molten oasis]

i hate sand attack

oh, the dog's themes arent in this game either huh

i like zacians theme a lot

[south shuttle]

sword and shield had the rival theme perfect

especially the battle league version

[molten oasis]

hop has the best tracks in swsh

[mighty stump]

Marnie >>>

[molten oasis]

Marnies are good too

[south shuttle]

marnie has a good one

but hop WASHES

[mighty stump]

You both have bad taste and that is my professional opinion

[molten oasis]

[south shuttle]

https://tenor.com/view/trailer-park-boys-fighting-gif-14184196

[molten oasis]

https://tenor.com/view/veeunus-spongebob-spongebob-squarepants-squidward-done-gif-24674884

oh hell yea thick fat adamant snorlax

[dapper crag]

Move: Autotomize

Raises the user's Speed by 2 stages. If the user's Speed was changed, the user's weight is reduced by 100 kg as long as it remains active. This effect is stackable but cannot reduce the user's weight to less than 0.1 kg.

Type

Steel

Category

Status

Power

0

Accuracy

—

PP (max)

15 (24)

Move Flags

​

Protect

Bypasses Protect-like moves.

Contact

Does not make contact.

Snatch

Affected by Snatch.

SableyeBot version 4.27.1

[autumn vault]

I really like Calyrex-rider theme, only thing i like about it

And also the regi's theme

[dapper crag]

Chesnaught's moveset:

Physical Moves

Aerial Ace, Bite, Body Press, Body Slam, Brick Break, Bulldoze, Bullet Seed, Close Combat, Crunch, Cut, Dig, Double-Edge, Dragon Claw, Drain Punch, Dual Chop, Earthquake, Endeavor, Facade, Feint, Fling, Focus Punch, Frustration, Giga Impact, Grassy Glide, Gyro Ball, Hammer Arm, High Horsepower, Iron Head, Iron Tail, Knock Off, Low Kick, Low Sweep, Metal Claw, Needle Arm, Payback, Pin Missile, Poison Jab, Power-Up Punch, Retaliate, Return, Reversal, Rock Slide, Rock Smash, Rock Tomb, Rollout, Secret Power, Seed Bomb, Shadow Claw, Smack Down, Stomping Tantrum, Stone Edge, Strength, Super Fang, Superpower, Tackle, Take Down, Thunder Punch, Trailblaze, Vine Whip, Wood Hammer, Zen Headbutt

Special Moves

Energy Ball, Focus Blast, Frenzy Plant, Giga Drain, Grass Knot, Grass Pledge, Hidden Power, Hyper Beam, Leaf Storm, Magical Leaf, Mud Shot, Mud-Slap, Round, Sludge Bomb, Snore, Solar Beam, Swift, Tera Blast

Status Moves

Attract, Belly Drum, Block, Bulk Up, Coaching, Confide, Curse, Defense Curl, Double Team, Endure, Flash, Grassy Terrain, Growl, Helping Hand, Hone Claws, Iron Defense, Leech Seed, Nature Power, Pain Split, Protect, Quick Guard, Rain Dance, Reflect, Rest, Roar, Scary Face, Sleep Talk, Spikes, Spiky Shield, Substitute, Sunny Day, Swagger, Swords Dance, Synthesis, Taunt, Toxic, Wide Guard, Work Up, Worry Seed

Notes

A move displayed with Bold text benefits from Same-Type Attack Bonus when used by Chesnaught.

SableyeBot version 4.27.1

[autumn vault]

What are you cooking up this time Shroom?

[autumn vault]

Hop's theme >>>

[south shuttle]

i dont know

i like chesnaught

but as a body press user its kinda mid

[autumn vault]

Urshifu-R catching up to incineroar

I did not know Incineroar would perform like that

I expected it to be like 50-60% usage ngl

Obviously because of Amulet, Cloak and Annihilape

I like urshifu anyways so its a win for me

[willow vault]

Feel like your trying to sneak in annihilape into that conversation, I haven’t seen a single one

[autumn vault]

Sash is more common that i thought

[autumn vault]

I saw it twice, and i use it myself

Plus it does good against incineroar too

[mighty stump]

Ive only seen two Annihilapes

It feels very meh

[autumn vault]

True

[willow vault]

So you are sneaking it in, it’s not the reason that Incineroars play isn’t like 70%

[mighty stump]

It wants and can do a lot of things

But falls short of each one

[autumn vault]

I tried to use it in the past but i feel like it underperforms most of the time

I wish i can go back to the older regs just to do annihilape beat up strats

[south shuttle]

guys i have cooked once again

[autumn vault]

?

[willow vault]

Actually cooked or just burnt everything down?

[south shuttle]

thunderus swagger on flygon/metagross with lum berry

they agility same turn

[willow vault]

No

[south shuttle]

with eq spam

[autumn vault]

https://tenor.com/view/facepalm-gif-4576513125411549651

[willow vault]

Grassy terrain lowers the damage of eq

Rillaboom is incredibly common

Due to the need of setup, you lose to tr

Tailwind + faster mons just cook you

[autumn vault]

also here is a poll btw with only 1 vote from OTOT and another from me, feel free to vote on it

[south shuttle]

thats were electric terrain on the thunderus comes in

[willow vault]

You still haven’t cooked

[south shuttle]

i have prankster thunder wave

[willow vault]

What do you do when the opponent has taunt whimsicott, and prankster taunts your Thundurus preventing the use of swagger or electric terrain?

[south shuttle]

thats where we bring in zing zap kings rock pincurchin

[willow vault]

So your making a team full of inoptimal pokemon using an inoptimal strategy, have fun

[south shuttle]

wdym this team won worlds

[autumn vault]

Wha-

Are you ok?

I don't think that ever won

[willow vault]

Definitely didn’t win in masters division, I don’t know every team for the other divisions, but I would be astounded if that team won worlds

[bold geode]

[autumn vault]

A cherrim won a juniors division in 2010 with Groudon, maybe

[bold geode]

I just woke up, tf am I reading

[willow vault]

Yeah with normal good Pokémon around the cherrim

[autumn vault]

reading from someone thats burned the house

[bold geode]

Oh so just regular shit

[willow vault]

Yeah

[craggy dagger]

cherrim is pretty good-

[dapper crag]

Ability: Flower Gift

If this Pokemon is a Cherrim and Sunny Day is active, it changes to Sunshine Form and the Attack and Special Defense of it and its allies are multiplied by 1.5. These effects are prevented if the Pokemon is holding a Utility Umbrella.

SableyeBot version 4.27.1

[mighty stump]

🤢

[craggy dagger]

makes for some interesting niche plays

[mighty stump]

AV Groudon without the AV

[autumn vault]

It is Choice Band + Assault Vest without a drawback but in return you become a lot more sun dependant and a rain dance pokemon can easily ruin the strat

And you have to have a bad pokemon

Who can't even do much

[craggy dagger]

huh?

[autumn vault]

?

Cherrim is hardly anything outside of it's ability

[graceful flare]

What berry do bold pokemon like

[craggy dagger]

oh-
no yeah

[craggy dagger]

i can disagree on this point though

[sudden wind]

Bold boosts defense right? So it should be iapapa

[graceful flare]

Yes

Thanks

[molten oasis]

I have now been notified about Cherrim and Groudon

How’d that happen

[mighty stump]

Dunno

[autumn vault]

Back then Power creep wasn't cruel i guess

[sudden wind]

I like Cherrim a lot as a concept but they really didn’t give it much

[craggy dagger]

https://pokepast.es/73444c0249ed555e

i think-
this was something i ran-

though iirc it’s wolfey’s 25th pokemon anni invitational team

[craggy dagger]

back then it was worse imo-
though we could wall shifu with dynamax

[autumn vault]

I was referring to gen 4

Gen 8's powercreep was arguably worse

cough cough Calyrex Zacian cough cough

[shut schooner]

Calyrex is still way over powerd they need to nerf their signature moves making them hit one slot

Just faced one with follow me clefairy

[timber falcon]

Work round it

It doesn’t need a nerf tbh

With proper positioning, it can be dealt with

[shut schooner]

I understand like if you plan on Showdown it's not that bad if you're actually playing Scarlet ranked you literally see valy Rex every other battle if not many in a row

[craggy dagger]

wasn’t it nerfed to 120 from 150-?
base power for the signature moves

[shut schooner]

Still shouldn't hit 2 it's a 120 move

Along with grimney

[craggy dagger]

no just buff kyogre and groudon-
and let them have 100% accuracy-
now we have a clone of the honse signatures but different typing

this is all a joke

[minor panther]

always been 120 im p sure

[shut schooner]

That would be sick and help even it I've faced 3 caly Rex this morning alone lol

[craggy dagger]

you can argue that earthquake is spread 120
and when it’s spread i’m pretty sure the base power gets lowered?

[minor panther]

if you are talking about glacial lance/astral barrage

[dapper crag]

Move: Astral Barrage

No additional effect.

Type

Ghost

Category

Special

Power

120

Max Power

140

Accuracy

100

PP (max)

5 (8)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Does not make contact.

SableyeBot version 4.27.1

[shut schooner]

Ya

[craggy dagger]

oh it was 120 nvm

[minor panther]

in multi battles, spread moves get a.. 25% or so decrease

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 898: Calyrex-Shadow

Types

Psychic/Ghost

Abilities

As One (Spectrier)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

100/85/80/165/100/150

Total

680

Base Species

Calyrex

SableyeBot version 4.27.1

Pokémon No. 898: Calyrex-Shadow

Types

Psychic/Ghost

Abilities

As One (Spectrier)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

100/85/80/165/100/150

Total

680

Base Species

Calyrex

SableyeBot version 4.27.1

[craggy dagger]

okay am i being stupid-

[minor panther]

zacian-c pre-nerf had 170 attack and 148 speed

[craggy dagger]

i am-
my brain isn’t working i could have sworn that calyrex got a nerf along with zacian

[timber falcon]

Nerfed cause it’s spread

[molten oasis]

i see

[shut schooner]

It move should hit one slot or grim ney only activate once it needs something to cut back ever ghost calyrex I see is the same and use the same attack

[molten oasis]

and im not gonna open that paste

[timber falcon]

Your point?

[shut schooner]

It's op

[minor panther]

you said it doesnt need a nerf and its slightly faster and has nearly the same attacking stat (opposite spectrum, but still) as zacian pre-nerf

and usually its probably gonna get a kill im gonna bet

[craggy dagger]

[minor panther]

so it will get the stat boost, plus no berries because of its double ability

having two abilities is insane 💀

[craggy dagger]

it’s just a copy paste of wolfey’s
it’s not my cook or it’d be something weirder

[shut schooner]

Or two and combined with follow me you can't take it out while it stacks grim neighs up

[autumn vault]

CSR is literally a mewtwo thats been upgraded in every way

Even ability

Mewtwo has Unnerve, CSR has Unnerve and Grim Neigh

CSR has better offensive stats

And better typing

And better offensive STABs

[graceful flare]

Please don't give ideas about nerfing calyrex I couldn't imagine a world without calyrex shadow rider

[autumn vault]

Skill issue

[minor panther]

mewtwo is literally weaker than csr in every way except defense (by 10) attack (doesnt matter) and health (by 6)

[minor panther]

the only other thing mewtwo has over scr is movepool

[graceful flare]

I couldn't have without calyrex

[timber falcon]

Like I said, it can be worked around anyways

[minor panther]

since its a gen 1 pokemon its movesets are wild

[autumn vault]

Lets remove CSR because why not

[minor panther]

have you considered using applin

[minor panther]

and urshifu while we are at it

oh and palafin hero
not for any reason i just hate it

[autumn vault]

Only the ability needs a nerf

CSR has to be nerfed in a lot of ways

[minor panther]

true

[autumn vault]

And also CIR

[minor panther]

at least give it a zacian treatment

[minor panther]

is cir actually good in the meta?

[shut schooner]

Or get rid of grim negh and make it's signature 90 or 85 percent accurate

[timber falcon]

Nah CIR ain’t a massive threat atm

[autumn vault]

Very

[shut schooner]

Ya it is

[timber falcon]

Not as big as csr at least

[minor panther]

oh, cuz i swear i remember it being trash in swsh ubers iirc

[autumn vault]

Didn't win but it is still a very dangerous threat

[shut schooner]

It's a very big threat one of the biggest currently

[minor panther]

i think the major thing holding cir back (other than speed)

[timber falcon]

I know lemme rephrase, not as big as csr

[minor panther]

is the ice typing

[shut schooner]

On god

[minor panther]

wait what

[mighty stump]

The major thing holding CIR back is the fact the team formula doesn't tackle CSR.

[autumn vault]

Not as big as CSR

[mighty stump]

CIR is still very good and very consistent

[minor panther]

glacial lance has 130 bp but astral barrage has 120 bp

[mighty stump]

The Ice typing is a non-issue

[graceful flare]

Ok what abt choice scarf cir

[autumn vault]

Used to have 130 BP

[minor panther]

50 base speed

[autumn vault]

In SV it is now 120 BP

[timber falcon]

Just use tailwind

[minor panther]

oh i was looking at the swsh smogon page because i swear i remember cir being trash in swsh ubers

[craggy dagger]

scarf what-

[shut schooner]

Imagine decorating csr turn one

[graceful flare]

I feel like all the physical restricted aren't as good bc they have to run clear amulet

[craggy dagger]

ice rider was never that popular in singles because of the amount of setup needed

[autumn vault]

Too slow to actually do it consistently

[minor panther]

hey guys what if we gave csr quiver dance

[timber falcon]

Maybe if tr is up

[minor panther]

makes sense

[craggy dagger]

getting tr up in a singles swsh match is pretty hard imo

[timber falcon]

I know, I was referring to decorate strat

[autumn vault]

One advantage it has over other Singles TR sweepers (only Ursaluna lmao) is that it can set up TR itself

[shut schooner]

Does csr get quiver dance

[autumn vault]

no

[timber falcon]

Ofc not

[craggy dagger]

oh

[minor panther]

i just said it as a joke

[shut schooner]

Didn't thinks so lmao

[minor panther]

because that would make life a living hell

[autumn vault]

That would make Topsy Turvy sash malamar viable

Or Murkrow ig

[minor panther]

ok lets give csr quiver dance now
(i want malamar to be viable because malamar is cool)

[craggy dagger]

topsy turvy-
kinda forgot it existed but i’m gonna go make something with that now

[minor panther]

does spinda learn topsy turvy

[timber falcon]

I feel like topsy turvey malamar isn’t gonna be close to enough lol

[craggy dagger]

after i make the team im working on currently

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 687: Malamar

Types

Dark/Psychic

Abilities

Contrary, Suction Cups, Infiltrator (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

86/92/88/68/75/73

Total

482

SableyeBot version 4.27.1

[minor panther]

you are right, but like i said, malamar is just cool

[craggy dagger]

sash tr?

[timber falcon]

I mean atp don’t use malamar

[shut schooner]

What mode in Showdown if any is most like the current meta where you can only take three or four into the ranked matches on Scarlett

[timber falcon]

Farig is immune to astral

[shut schooner]

Just want to try some teams out but kind of feel like I should have that same restrictions as in Scarlet if I want to use them in Scarlett

[minor panther]

guys hear me out
what if we gave zacian-c its swsh stats and victory da-
gets shot

[timber falcon]

Never let bro be a dev

[minor panther]

i WILL give armaldo 200 in every stat and huge power..

and also just remove defeatist and slow start

[timber falcon]

I’d give swampert a useful ability

[minor panther]

because im biased for armaldo archeops and regigigas (aka top three favorites)

[minor panther]

i would do something impossible...
make meganium viable

[timber falcon]

U mean the worst starter?

[minor panther]

yes

[autumn vault]

Guys, what if we nerf Miraidon by down grading Hadron Engine to Electric Terrain and Koraidon from Orichalcum Pulse to Drought? (Don't do this btw)

[minor panther]

competitively worst*

[timber falcon]

Worst in general*

[minor panther]

that would make them drastically less interesting

[mighty stump]

Interesting takes today.

[minor panther]

meganium isnt terrible outside of battles though, i think she silly

[timber falcon]

Was just about to say, tofu must be eating popcorn at these takes

[shut schooner]

Honestly they just need to not have restricted Legends and just have all the legends limited to one per team I mean we're only taking in three or four Pokemon maybe teams at six you could have a chance against a team of Legends the legend could be your Ace I'm not seeing all legends are overpowered just I think that should just be one alowed per team Or they could just Have more than two modes At a time Have the anything goes ranked And have the non- Legends ranked I mean it is a $60 game

[autumn vault]

I want to give Zekrom Hadron Engine for physical attackers and remove 40 points in SpA to 30 in speed an 10 into Attack, that should make it busted as fuck

[timber falcon]

Worst take I’ve seen so far

[shut schooner]

Sorry

[autumn vault]

Restricted formats with restricted legends:

[minor panther]

the worst starter is (in my opinion) rillaboom or probably like.. uhhhhh
nah thats probably the worst

[timber falcon]

Mf tryna limit mons like moltres

[autumn vault]

But yeah that take is trash

[minor panther]

gen 8 is probably my least favorite starter trio

[timber falcon]

Not all legendarys are good

[autumn vault]

Gen 8 is bad

[shut schooner]

I agree and I said I'm not saying that they're all overpowered at all

[minor panther]

some gen 8 mons are bad* not all of them

[autumn vault]

Ehh most of them are

[shut schooner]

And I know the first part but mainly the second part just have more than one mode So I'm not stuck using A similar team to stay meta

[craggy dagger]

[timber falcon]

“Have all legends limited to one team”

[minor panther]

dont you DARE slander my babies appletun and arctozolt..

[shut schooner]

Honestly they should do that just have a ranked mode where there's no restrictions

And you can use as many restricted Legends as you want

[autumn vault]

Appletun is a great design and Arctozolt is, interesting

[timber falcon]

Anyways back to what I was saying this morning

[autumn vault]

And make it VGC Ubers? No

[timber falcon]

What’s the main difference between rotom wash and heat

[minor panther]

arctozolt makes me happy

[craggy dagger]

no

[mighty stump]

Have you considered you're simply not good enough to build and/or run different team styles/variations

[shut schooner]

Water fire

[craggy dagger]

resists and the stab move they get

[mighty stump]

Cause considering how diverse every meta in SV has been including the Restricted Format.

[minor panther]

rotom wash is water type and rotom heat is so stupid and a waste of the only fire/electric type (my favorite type combo)

[shut schooner]

Honestly I'm doing pretty good as long as I take in my Legends all I'm saying is I wish I didn't have to use legendaries all the time and they had more than one mode

[mighty stump]

Okay, so what's the elo?

[shut schooner]

And you don't have to use Legends I know but it's hard without them

[timber falcon]

Uh, I meant viability in the meta if I wasn’t specific

[shut schooner]

Elo?

[autumn vault]

Answers it

[mighty stump]

That answers that question

[shut schooner]

What is it

[minor panther]

oh uhh.. i would probably say that wash might be better? i think wash has generally been better in the metas since it was released than heat

this is just my guessing from what i know

[timber falcon]

I’m still not sure why I should go wash over heat, any advice?

[mighty stump]

Easy. Run both.

Decide after.

[timber falcon]

Ok

[mighty stump]

I already commented on Rotom-H

[autumn vault]

Which one helps your bad MUs more, or do what Tofu says

[craggy dagger]

they have different synergies-
if you’re running rain, i’d go wash, if you’re running sun, i’d run heat-
if you’re running neither, then like tofu said, try both

[minor panther]

it can also obviously boil down to what you find more fun or the team you have

[timber falcon]

Heat helps type MUs more

[shut schooner]

It's not hard to be good as much as the metas to small that's what I'm saying their are like 630 pokemon I wanna have more than 40 options

[mighty stump]

Unfortunately "fun" also considers if the user wants to win and find the choices actually useful in matchups and be able to bring it.

[timber falcon]

U have more than 40 options, it’s finding a way to make them work ur struggling with

[mighty stump]

And "decide after" is also pretty vague intentionally.

[minor panther]

unfortunately, i know you are right.
my showdown teams however, say otherwise lmao

KLEAVOR WITH SHARPNESS, AGILITY, METRONOME, AND FURY CUTTER!!!!

[mighty stump]

In this context, it's also deciding if Rotom-H/W is more suitable as an actual team choice for relevant matchups.

[minor panther]

GRAAAAHHHHH ‼️

[timber falcon]

[mighty stump]

I am glad you consider yourself good.

[minor panther]

you dont know true happiness until you see fury cutter one shot a 4x resist after being used three times

[timber falcon]

This can’t be in doubles right?

[minor panther]

obviously not

[timber falcon]

Yeah thought so

[minor panther]

but its still fun as hell

[craggy dagger]

that’s true

[timber falcon]

What’s harder, team building or piloting?

[autumn vault]

Depends on the playstyle

[mighty stump]

That's subjective.

[timber falcon]

Oh

[minor panther]

team building while being a pilot

duh

[shut schooner]

Naw it's not lol I'm talking about specifically Pokemon Scarlet ranked Not show down where you can just Get the perfect loadout automatically but no there are 46 top tier Pokemon that's the current meta it's those 46 if your master ball you probably used a team mostly filled with these

[minor panther]

"hello this is your captain speaking i just one shot a fucking garganacl"

[autumn vault]

You can use niche pokemon to fix a bad MU and still find success, you aren't forced to use the top 46 pokemon lol

[timber falcon]

This proves nothing, cart is way easier than showdown high ladder lmao

Getting to masterball is a breeze (for me at least)

[craggy dagger]

mmm
i’d say that usually team building is harder since you need an understanding of the meta and whatnot but if you do know that stuff then both are pretty easy

[minor panther]

so what you are saying is i can use spidops if i need a bug type

[autumn vault]

Not that far

Spidops is not a niche

[minor panther]

you are right, tarountula

[autumn vault]

I am referring to niche pokemon

[craggy dagger]

hi

[autumn vault]

Hello

[shut schooner]

I do I got a few under average mons I take advantage of and some op mons but I'm here talking about how limited my choices are for successful teams lol that will go to master ball

[craggy dagger]

i heard niche-
you’ve got my attention now

[timber falcon]

I mean I’ve been tryna work on meta understanding via looking at cores instead of purely csr, I’m hoping it lets me use niche properly

[mighty stump]

I would also say teambuilding is harder since you actually need to intentionally be able to explain what you might instinctually execute while piloting.

[shut schooner]

Same

[minor panther]

i was talking about the viability of spidops in the lead metagame if his speed got increased by one point

[shut schooner]

Start with two cores and I build around em

Since we can only take 3 or 4 in

[timber falcon]

Oh yeah the video I told u Abt say something about reactive players and something else, is that related?

[shut schooner]

I do*

[craggy dagger]

that’s a good start since you’re looking into different cores instead of zooming into one meta pokemon-

[mighty stump]

Anyone can slap random meta mons and call it a team. To be able to explain every intentional decision is a different matter.

[craggy dagger]

yep

[autumn vault]

Couldn't agree more master tofu

[mighty stump]

If you don't understand the tools you're using how are you supposed to be the best pilot.

[shut schooner]

I'm great at team building on showdown I've just been sucked into scarlet lately

[minor panther]

random fun fact: shell smash clamperl (with a deep sea tooth) has more special attack than shell smash mega blastoise

[shut schooner]

Tryna hit master ball

[mighty stump]

I could give you a stick and you can defend yourself if someone came at you, but to be able to use the stick effectively is a different matter.

[timber falcon]

Risky plays is how i used to do it

[shut schooner]

Stucke between great and ultra

[craggy dagger]

pon’s relevance has kinda fallen hm…

[autumn vault]

You can just say that without the shell smash buff, its probably the same

[timber falcon]

Skill issue

[minor panther]

well yeah, but shell smash clamperl is also funny

[autumn vault]

True

[shut schooner]

Might be but I don't spam the meta thank goodness

[autumn vault]

Now what about shell smash Gorebyss/Huntail?

[mighty stump]

Playing to win vs playing not to not lose

[minor panther]

"nice legendary you got there. sure would be a shame if my baby clam one shot it"

[autumn vault]

Then you are doing something wrong

[minor panther]

i think clamperl would have more sp.atk because of the tooth, but gorebyss is probably better due to the speed

[autumn vault]

And way worse because of it's shell's placements

[mighty stump]

At the end of the day: If you can't attain a result using the methods you want, you just suck

[timber falcon]

Aren’t they still the same thing

[shut schooner]

I just don't spam caly Rex lol he's my down fall

[autumn vault]

Don't ask me where

[mighty stump]

Nope

[timber falcon]

[shut schooner]

Like honestly a good 75 to 85% of teams have calyrex

[charred saddle]

playing not to lose is more passive

[autumn vault]

I don't spam it at all and i find great success

[charred saddle]

in a sense

[autumn vault]

You aren't forced to use the best possible mons to win

[timber falcon]

Ah ok

[mighty stump]

If we added up the % Caly usage its 40%

Lol

What blatant misinformation

[shut schooner]

@autumn vault what's your team?

[craggy dagger]

kinda wanted to use my suicune spread again so…

https://pokepast.es/e322cab987fce8dc

i put this together…
and this is kinda scuff bc calm mind setup mirai but i wanna try it out

[autumn vault]

I have several teams

[minor panther]

yeah clamperl would have around 540 sp. attack (tooth + modest, no shell smash) while gorebyss has 359 (modest, no shell smash)

but usually when i play that for the funny i do a timid clamperl so it can have slightly more speed

[timber falcon]

Moraidon with no prot looks risky

Especially set up

[shut schooner]

Ya are they legend spamming teams tho

[autumn vault]

https://pokepast.es/e051154f42031389
https://pokepast.es/6ae24745fa91b8f2
https://pokepast.es/465ef26faeebedd2
https://pokepast.es/1a8ec815b65afa2b

Only 1 spams legends

[charred saddle]

reckless mienshao + hi jump kick + choice band > innerfocus sash mienshao /j

[timber falcon]

Legendary or not doesn’t really matter lol tbh. If caly wasn’t a legendary people would still use it

[shut schooner]

2

[craggy dagger]

yeah…
i shouldn’t be treating mirai like a terapagos in that it has enough bulk to just set up a couple times-
but oh well…

it’s still in works so

[autumn vault]

Paradoxes don't count as legends

Including Raging Bolt

[mighty stump]

Legendary or not, a bad player will suck either way

Lol

[shut schooner]

You have 3 legends on one team 4 on anougher

[craggy dagger]

trueeeeeee

[minor panther]

the people that argue paradoxes as legends are the same that will argue ultra beasts as legends

[timber falcon]

The way tofu puts it so straight lol

[autumn vault]

The first one is a legendary spammer
The other ones aren't and paradoxes do not count

[craggy dagger]

you could beat someone who has legendaries with babies if the person who has legends has no clue what they’re doing

[charred saddle]

while me = bad player trying to use subpar mon

[mighty stump]

The only people complaining about the state of the game and usage of legendaries/paradoxes/other mons that i've seen are people who are just not good at the game.

[craggy dagger]

better than me stfu

[mighty stump]

The only complaint top players actually have is just accessibility.

[autumn vault]

I don't count 2 legends as spamming legends

I count 4 or more as spamming legends

[shut schooner]

Not necessarily the need to rely on legends kinda makes good players trash to me imo

[autumn vault]

And maybe 3

[timber falcon]

25/5 with cinderace? U underestimate urself

[mighty stump]

Whats your elo?

[autumn vault]

But no way do i count 2

[shut schooner]

Whats elo

[mighty stump]

Yeah exactly

[shut schooner]

I already asked

[mighty stump]

I know

[shut schooner]

Awnser

[mighty stump]

If you don't know elo, then you can't even have an opinion on the state of player skill

Lol

[craggy dagger]

i mean…
tbf the only niche pokemon on that team is cindy and mienshao since mienshao wasn’t popular until restricted came along

[autumn vault]

Your not answering how much elo you have, you are asking what it is when someone asks you what elo do you have

[shut schooner]

You ask someone something they don't know what it is then they ask you what it is and you're not going to answer and act like that makes him a bad player

[timber falcon]

Points u win/lose on Pokemon showdown

[craggy dagger]

the rest were pretty standard

[autumn vault]

idk is not an answer

[craggy dagger]

except for-
that follow me sd no protect ogerpon

[shut schooner]

I'm for sure I haven't played showdown in like a month and a half to two months because again I've been very absorbed in the Scarlet but let me check

[mighty stump]

It does. Because to have an opinion regarding the state of the game should come with depth of knowledge/information regarding the game.

I wouldn't ask someone who wouldn't understand what pharmacology means for drug advice.

[craggy dagger]

any ideas for a 6th?

https://pokepast.es/e322cab987fce8dc

[shut schooner]

You guys ever come back to Pokemon Showdown and your teams aren't there anymore It's happened to me like twice

[craggy dagger]

i’m considering bundle but dunno if i wanna add something frail onto this already really fragile team

[autumn vault]

I am really liking booster speed flutter mane here

[mighty stump]

This is incredibly funny

[craggy dagger]

oooo good point

[shut schooner]

I have plenty depth of knowledge of the game I've been playing for 10 years now and I have been on Showdown for 4:00 years off and on what are you talking about tofu

[mighty stump]

Ok, so what's elo

[autumn vault]

Deals with dragons the FWG hates, great partner for chi yu and counters koraidon

[shut schooner]

Where's it at

[minor panther]

the sicily flag (or isle of man)

[timber falcon]

Idk, I feel like a bit more immediate offence apart from chi-yu is needed

[mighty stump]

You've been on showdown for 4 years and you can't check your elo?

[open imp]

how do you guys build indeedee for doubles? 252 evs on def or spdef? and on what nature?

[mighty stump]

That's like saying you've driven a car for 4 years and don't know where the tires are

[shut schooner]

Sure can't man because I play alone and all I do is build teams and go straight in a battle and don't pay attention to anything else

[mighty stump]

Ok

[autumn vault]

Open up a replay

[shut schooner]

Hey it's not like I'm very invested into the Pokemon Showdown scene like you clearly are but I have been playing plenty I am allowed to have an opinion you're just salty cuz you don't agree with it

[autumn vault]

That will give us an idea of your elo

[shut schooner]

For sure how do I do that

[autumn vault]

https://tenor.com/view/facepalm-gif-4576513125411549651

[craggy dagger]

something like this then?

https://pokepast.es/954b8ae6c14f334c

[mighty stump]

Showdown for 4 years btw

[minor panther]

hey

[shut schooner]

Every time I go away and come back my team's just disappear

[minor panther]

to find your elo

[shut schooner]

Okay where do I go from home page

[minor panther]

go to ladder and click "user lookup" at the top

[minor panther]

a new tab will open up and search in your user

[tranquil kraken]

No need to bring that up

[autumn vault]

Oh sorry

[craggy dagger]

oh hey ili

[tranquil kraken]

Just help the dude, piling up on him isn't productive

[craggy dagger]

[tranquil kraken]

o7

[autumn vault]

I was just explaining something simple

[charred saddle]

ili appearance

[little arrow]

Hello, i want to build a team around toxapex i haev already started building a team but i am struggling to find 2 extra fitting pokemon could someone help me?

[tranquil kraken]

The kid has nothing to do with this conversation

[minor panther]

Don't

[craggy dagger]

kay test run is gonna-
happen for this team

https://pokepast.es/954b8ae6c14f334c

[autumn vault]

ik

[mighty stump]

Doubles or Singles?

[craggy dagger]

is this singles or doubles?

[autumn vault]

Might want to add more physical bulk ngl

[little arrow]

doubles, i know toxapex isnt great but i want to try

[autumn vault]

On flutter Mane

[timber falcon]

@shut schooner If this helps

[shut schooner]

So I don't know if it's just cuz I haven't been on in a month and a half but I can't find my ELO but I'm going to go build a team @tofu can battle me

[mighty stump]

I don't think Volt Switch is correct if you want to Calm Mind.

[craggy dagger]

ohh yeah

[autumn vault]

https://tenor.com/view/facepalm-gif-4576513125411549651

[little arrow]

doubles

[mighty stump]

What's your current setup?

[little arrow]

can i send you a picture in dm?

[craggy dagger]

ig thunderbolt then?

[mighty stump]

Do you know what Showdown is?

[mighty stump]

Gleam or Protect

[little arrow]

yes i am building on there

[mighty stump]

Gleam is nice for spread.

[timber falcon]

I think set up should be protect

[craggy dagger]

[mighty stump]

You can send a paste via the tutorial in the pins

[mighty stump]

If not, Parabolic Charge

I dislike it, but its what CM runs

[mighty stump]

No thanks, I've done this song and dance before and all it does is waste my time and provide further precedence that lack of understanding can somehow be made up for by a one-off game.

[gentle crag]

woodtofu has given 1 Gen Rep to bigp73.

[little arrow]

https://pokepast.es/1c6ffd773518ff85

[mighty stump]

Thanks rotom.

[shut schooner]

You're gonna lose

Don't be scared or nervous to lose to someone who you just talk s*** about

[timber falcon]

what is gen rep?

[mighty stump]

I would probably commit to adding Grimmsnarl like Andrew Zheng's team

[mighty stump]

Ok

Thanks for your opinion

[shut schooner]

I mean if you're going to call someone bad at least play them

[mighty stump]

Why though

[shut schooner]

Or do you got skill issues you're not letting us know about

[mighty stump]

Ok

[little arrow]

thanks and what would he have to look like and what last pokemon should i add?

[gentle crag]

itsme_keano has given 1 Gen Rep to woodtofu

[mighty stump]

I will find a paste for you

[willow vault]

I still have no idea

[tranquil kraken]

This is also not productive. Request declined, move on

[timber falcon]

he better than im pretty sure everyone here lul

[little arrow]

thx

[gentle crag]

You gave Gen Rep too recently. You can give Gen Rep again <t:1717428419:R>.

[timber falcon]

oh is gen rep just a way of saying thanks

[willow vault]

Probably

[mighty stump]

So this is his current team structure

I recommend just going for Grimmsnarl to get rid of that Light Screen on Lunala, while increasing Toxapex's bulk

[strange fjord]

https://pokemonshowdown.com/users/
type your user name here for elo info

[willow vault]

Hi Pizza

[strange fjord]

hello

[mighty stump]

I would also probably use Recover over Pain Split

[autumn vault]

Hello pizza

[mighty stump]

You can also actively use Toxic as well

[strange fjord]

we're teambuilding here?

[little arrow]

run calm mind on lunala instead of light screen?

[little arrow]

instead of acid spray?

[timber falcon]

i think theyre tryna add toxapex to the team

https://pokepast.es/7f1f3f4de2e36c8c any advice here btw?

any meta teams/archetypes im looking weak to?

[mighty stump]

Oh

Actually

Wide Guard/Infestation/Baneful Bunker can create some pretty interesting board states since you're going for a bulkier team.

Particularly against something like HO Terapagos, you can trap both Tornadus and Terapagos and block with Wide Guard

[craggy dagger]

i don’t think shroom is it for this mirai redirection-
i keep forgetting electric terrain blocks sleep

[autumn vault]

You're evil, i like it

[mighty stump]

You can probably keep Acid Spray

But I would go for recovery of some sort

[craggy dagger]

the only thing i’m worried about toxapex is the psychic CSR MU

[autumn vault]

Like recover?

[craggy dagger]

else toxapex seems pretty good

[little arrow]

https://pokepast.es/eecbdeb5ae607796 i have this for now? what should i add as last pokemon?

[mighty stump]

Honestly

Raging Bolt looks pretty good here

[shut schooner]

I'm ready now @mighty stump

[mighty stump]

@tranquil kraken They didn't get the message

[little arrow]

any other options?

[craggy dagger]

i’d say maybe something that’s offensive-
bc-
it looks like-
most of th team is pretty bulky and not hard hitting

[autumn vault]

Raging Bolt looks nice

[mighty stump]

If you're going Meteor Beam, I would opt to switch off Calm Mind and run Moonblast

[autumn vault]

And booster energy is a solution but i really like AV

[mighty stump]

Tera-Fairy is also necessary

[craggy dagger]

for what-

[autumn vault]

Lunala

[mighty stump]

Lunala

[autumn vault]

Lunala in that team has tera Ghost

[timber falcon]

ok so i think rotom heat works if i can get it to do damage

[craggy dagger]

did i miss something-
bolt doesn’t get meteor beam does it
ohhhhhh
lunala

[timber falcon]

are goggles a bad idea?

[little arrow]

and can i change moonblast for meteor beam and ceep calm mind?

[mighty stump]

You can

Its a one or the other type thing

[little arrow]

ok

[mighty stump]

Is something wrong with Raging Bolt?

[timber falcon]

any item advice for rotom heat?

[mighty stump]

Goggles.

[craggy dagger]

ladies and gentlemen
i present to you one of our relics
power herb meteor beam raging bolt

man my brain is everywhere today

[timber falcon]

but im seeing a lack of damage being done

[little arrow]

no not really i just dont have the dlc lmao

[mighty stump]

Then go Nasty Plot lol

[shut schooner]

Anyone want to battle on showdown

[timber falcon]

i can do that?

oh i can

[little arrow]

do i run a stellar tera on raging bolt?

[mighty stump]

You could attempt to trade for one. Otherwise you're pretty limited for other options. It looks to be a perfect fit to deal with other FWG and threaten Watershifu which can be annoying through screens, additionally so with Rillaboom

[timber falcon]

oh it only gets one fire move

[mighty stump]

Also

You need Fake Out on both Incineroar and Rillaboom

[craggy dagger]

this is okay for a clefairy build right-

Clefairy (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Friend Guard
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Follow Me
• Helping Hand
• After You
• Life Dew

[mighty stump]

Heal Pulse is way beter

[dapper crag]

Move: Heal Pulse

The target restores 1/2 of its maximum HP, rounded half up. If the user has the Mega Launcher Ability, the target instead restores 3/4 of its maximum HP, rounded half down.

Type

Psychic

Category

Status

Power

0

Accuracy

—

PP (max)

10 (16)

Move Flags

​

Contact

Does not make contact.

Heal

Cannot be selected under Heal Block.

Pulse

Boosted by Mega Launcher.

Reflectable

Affected by Magic Coat and Magic Bounce.

SableyeBot version 4.27.1

[solid frigate]

hoi

[timber falcon]

does heal pulse go through protect?

[little arrow]

whichteratype do i run on raging bolt?

[mighty stump]

Fairy or Electric

[solid frigate]

yes and liffe dew as well

[craggy dagger]

shroom just couldn’t do stuff cause sleep and electric terrain don’t mix

https://pokepast.es/a1867b2addc186df

[mighty stump]

No it doesn't

[craggy dagger]

or maybe it’s just a piloting issue on my end

[craggy dagger]

shouldn’t go through protect-

[solid frigate]

oh i always thought that it works cuz Lunar Blessing does that-

[lofty tartan]

Psh talking Lunala Balance and you didn't even ping me

[mighty stump]

I didn't think you'd want to attempt to fix Toxapex into that

[solid frigate]

what happen-

[tranquil kraken]

[lofty tartan]

You know me. I help if I can

[little arrow]

Raging Bolt @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 20 Atk

• Thunder
• Draco Meteor
• Volt Switch
  WHta last move should i use?

[shut schooner]

God first match back

[sharp cobalt]

[lofty tartan]

But yeah you probably know better about slotting Tox.

[sharp cobalt]

Snarl, methink

[solid frigate]

thunderbolt, over Thunder

and AV/Booster Energy is better than Scarf

[sharp cobalt]

And you want Thunderclap

[solid frigate]

and the EVs-

[timber falcon]

can ice types be frozen?

[sharp cobalt]

Nay

[little arrow]

what about them?

[timber falcon]

also is it worth running an offensive move on clefairy?

[mighty stump]

Some run Moonblast

[sharp cobalt]

Pew

[sharp cobalt]

They're probably suboptimal

[timber falcon]

https://pokepast.es/070d288f2d0c4b01 what about for a team like this

or is heal pulse preffered

[little arrow]

https://pokepast.es/9de90f01277fca14 should i try and run this team?

[mighty stump]

Ill pass you a Raging Bolt set.