competitive_discussion

[molten oasis]

And also make sure your mental s are like, st least ok

[solid frigate]

Print Screen

[molten oasis]

You play better if you can recover from a loss

[timber falcon]

theres a prt scr button i use

[molten oasis]

I can’t do that very well so it’s what I’m working on rn

[timber falcon]

print screen i think

[solid frigate]

mhm

https://pokepast.es/6e59a622bb768876

I use this team in Reg F and almost Climb to 1400

[timber falcon]

ive had so many losses u just eventually get over some. unless if its one of those losing streaks then i hit desk

[molten oasis]

That was my whole last week

[timber falcon]

i did it today after a missplay

almost got swept by lugia

[solid frigate]

Damn

[timber falcon]

mhm dragon cheer

tera dragon

[molten oasis]

This sticker means multiple things now

[autumn vault]

My results on showdown

[timber falcon]

is that ur only account u play on?

[molten oasis]

My results are extremely scattered but I’ll go find something

[autumn vault]

yes

[timber falcon]

i have an account for each team so i can regulate them better

[autumn vault]

This is proof of my results

[timber falcon]

this is my lunala team

zama is 1437

[autumn vault]

I hardly ever play showdown

[timber falcon]

i need to play the actual game more

[molten oasis]

Why

[autumn vault]

Life

[timber falcon]

i dont play sv almost at all, so im missing the experience of using the actual mons

[molten oasis]

Ig

[timber falcon]

and how annoying it is gathering the right mons for the team

[autumn vault]

Not too annoying imo

[solid frigate]

without that much stuff currently in Gen 9 Restricted Format

[timber falcon]

it is for the legs

i have to replay shield #for zama

and i like to use shinies if they arent legs so i am making things harder for myself

[autumn vault]

if it is for restricted legends not in sv yes it is very annoying

I have like 6 zekroms so i am stonks when it comes to zekroms

[timber falcon]

how did u even manage that

[timber falcon]

i had every legend that was available in sword

[solid frigate]

Wolfey Why-

[molten oasis]

Lol

He’s not wrong

[autumn vault]

What video is it on?

[solid frigate]

How Gamefreak ruined Psychic Type

[molten oasis]

That’s older right?

[solid frigate]

thats Gen 4 Cresslia

[timber falcon]

then one day on vactaion the victini mystery gift came out but my internet was so slow. So my dumbass deleted ALL pokemon data to get it. I mean at least i got victini

[autumn vault]

Ah yes, i remember

[timber falcon]

a little tragic tale of mine

[timber falcon]

which vid is this?

[solid frigate]

If i see another Video Said that Terapagos is Below Average imma scream

[autumn vault]

this OTOT

[timber falcon]

oh ok i havent watched that

[timber falcon]

that little turtle is NOT average

screens terapagos hurts man

[solid frigate]

IKR

If someone said thats Below Average

Introduce them to VGC Series 4 Grimmsnarl+Reg G Meteor Mind Pagos

[solid frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/terapagos-gloogy-pokemon-indigo-disk-gif-13582137320859028886

[timber falcon]

its one of the reasons i just run shifu now

[solid frigate]

although i would say Terapagos Feels More Tame than Calyrex Both Forms

[timber falcon]

yeah its much more tame

it functions well if it gets calm mind only

[solid frigate]

Gen 9 DLC Legendaries:
Gen 8 DLC Legendaries:

[timber falcon]

game freak really went of the rails in swsh

[solid frigate]

Also Terapagos's Both Themes > Calyrex's Both Themes

[timber falcon]

theme?

only theme for me is chairman rose

[solid frigate]

Battle Theme

[solid frigate]

thats just epic ngl

[timber falcon]

i only remember the themes i absolutely enjoy, which are just 2 lol

[solid frigate]

most of Gen 9 i love,Gen 6-8 as well

[autumn vault]

https://pokepast.es/d192d9f9c4654421 Any suggestions? I have a hard time against ice types and i removed Landorus-Incarnate because it didn't fit in all that well, plus it was contributing to the ice weakness

[timber falcon]

how do u struggle with ice there

[solid frigate]

Grimmsnarl Did you try some Steel Types? but then against Ground Types

[autumn vault]

3 ice weaknesses

Calyrex-Ice and Kyurem-White

[timber falcon]

now its 2 weaknesses

and 3 resist

[autumn vault]

Grimmsnarl would probably make the team too passive

I already have 2 supports

One which can barely do damage at all

I was thinking of steel types btw

[timber falcon]

wait a minute

both u struggle with are caly and kyuerem?

[autumn vault]

yes

[timber falcon]

seems like a wide guard momento

[solid frigate]

Foul Play Grim lmao

[autumn vault]

Iron Valiant?

[timber falcon]

nah not val

[autumn vault]

Yeah it wouldn't make calyrex a better MU

[timber falcon]

pelliper looks good ngl

weather control to boot

[solid frigate]

without Kyogre,this is one of the better choices

[autumn vault]

Well it does synergize with Urshifu-R

[timber falcon]

mhm and suplies tw if needed

[autumn vault]

Not tornadus because of ice

[solid frigate]

I used It for Reg F with Rapid Urshifu

[timber falcon]

yeah pelliper checks caly, it cant do much to it. then u use partner to chip away

[autumn vault]

maybe Pelipepr is the right choice

[timber falcon]

watch out for electric types though

[solid frigate]

funny thing is that my team's Pelipper rarely uses Wide Guard lol

[timber falcon]

in reg G?

[solid frigate]

Bolt,Miraidon,Opposing Zekrom

[solid frigate]

Reg F

[autumn vault]

I do have 2 fire weaknesses

[timber falcon]

oh ok

[autumn vault]

and 3, with pelipper 4 water resists

with only 1 weak to it

[timber falcon]

also, pelliper helps into groudon MU

[autumn vault]

True

I havent faced a groudon team yet but all the groudon teams come out when i use Koraidon for some reason

[timber falcon]

u havent faced one!?

theyre a threat i tell u

[autumn vault]

With koraidon no

[solid frigate]

i haven't faced a Dialga Team,Like NONE

[timber falcon]

i definitely see more groudon than korai, precipis blades still goes hard

and rightfully so

[autumn vault]

Yeah sure i see no reason to use Pelipper

[timber falcon]

no reason?

[solid frigate]

agree,Koraidon feels like Overhyped

[autumn vault]

I will keep the Landorus version of the team but i am optimistic for Pelipper

[autumn vault]

Did you see a flare blitz tera fire sun from it?

Let me tell you that OHKOs even neutrally

[solid frigate]

yea,but usage wise,Groudon feeels more

[timber falcon]

its readable, and with a right team most ppl will have an MU for it

why it hasnt dominated

[solid frigate]

thank god i have rain dance on my Tornadus

[gentle crag]

morrispxg456 has given 1 Gen Rep to lycopoky

[solid frigate]

BRUH ROTOM

[timber falcon]

rotom tweaking

[autumn vault]

Thanks Rotom

[gentle crag]

You cannot rep bots or yourself.

[timber falcon]

lmao

[solid frigate]

lmao

[autumn vault]

We repping today, aren't we?

[timber falcon]

thanks

[solid frigate]

lol

[timber falcon]

oh it has to be reply

well im pretty sure itd be agaisnt rules anyway

[autumn vault]

Back to pelipper, sash seems to be the most used on pelipper but chien pao needs it more, i have seen helmet, damp rock and covert cloak on it so maybe i will go helmet

[timber falcon]

oh yeah pao is there isnt it

[solid frigate]

Sash is the most common

[solid frigate]

this mf is my bane in the flippin Ass

[timber falcon]

miht just have to use cloak

[autumn vault]

C. H. I. E. N. P. A. O.

[timber falcon]

pao is easy picking no?

[autumn vault]

I have to go

[timber falcon]

cya later

also for pao u just gotta let it burn its prot

[solid frigate]

Remember all 3 versions of my Reg G team weak to it

Not weak

Just Vulerable

[timber falcon]

do none have incin?

[solid frigate]

i have but i need to mandatory bring Grimmsnarl and Terapagos

So Incineroar is kinda in a Limbo cuz if its a fast Team i have to bring Tornadus

[timber falcon]

hmm so basicallly its an MU problem

[solid frigate]

Only Trick Room Team feels like i have to bring Incin

[timber falcon]

is that ur only tr response?

[solid frigate]

Well Raging Bolt and Terapagos are not that Fast

https://pokebin.com/ea7423632a37fb17

[timber falcon]

oh yeah those work

[solid frigate]

here's my team for reference

[timber falcon]

pokebin mons look so clean

[solid frigate]

Home Renders

looks so clean

[timber falcon]

btw are u completely fine with that torn set?

[solid frigate]

also yes i named Grimmsnarl Jotaro

[solid frigate]

i kinda not sure

[timber falcon]

it looks like it wants some more bulk

[solid frigate]

i used Drago's Torn so i guess

[timber falcon]

Tornadus @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 212 HP / 196 Def / 4 SpA / 12 SpD / 76 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Bleakwind Storm
• Rain Dance
• Tailwind
• Protect

this is dragos torn

the evs at least

[solid frigate]

ok

[timber falcon]

i reccomend u use it, bulky torns seem to be it these days

[solid frigate]

https://pokebin.com/c6c65b4f85bee7c9 here

i use Tera Dark For any Prankster stuff

[timber falcon]

the oger is off

should always be 188 jolly

[solid frigate]

188?

[timber falcon]

yes to always outspeed lando-I

[solid frigate]

fair

Replace what EVs with

[timber falcon]

btw u invested too much into defemce and not enough hp

i have a oger set i can show

[solid frigate]

Ok thanks

welp time to get another Fresh Start Mochi

[timber falcon]

its not my set btw i think its dragos or the bubbles person

Ogerpon-Wellspring (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 204 HP / 76 Atk / 12 Def / 28 SpD / 188 Spe
Jolly Nature

• Ivy Cudgel
• Wood Hammer
• Follow Me
• Spiky Shield

[solid frigate]

ok

[ember linden]

I know you can’t 100% get a protect off after you use wide guard, but can you protect and then wide guard?

[solid frigate]

No i think

[timber falcon]

next, what is the bolt calced for?

[ember linden]

Alr didn’t think so

[dapper crag]

Move: Wide Guard

The user and its party members are protected from moves made by other Pokemon, including allies, during this turn that target all adjacent foes or all adjacent Pokemon. This move modifies the same 1/X chance of being successful used by other protection moves, where X starts at 1 and triples each time this move is successfully used, but does not use the chance to check for failure. X resets to 1 if this move fails, if the user's last move used is not Baneful Bunker, Burning Bulwark, Detect, Endure, King's Shield, Max Guard, Obstruct, Protect, Quick Guard, Silk Trap, Spiky Shield, or Wide Guard, or if it was one of those moves and the user's protection was broken. Fails if the user moves last this turn or if this move is already in effect for the user's side.

Type

Rock

Category

Status

Power

0

Accuracy

—

PP (max)

10 (16)

Priority

3

Move Flags

​

Protect

Bypasses Protect-like moves.

Contact

Does not make contact.

Snatch

Affected by Snatch.

SableyeBot version 4.27.0

[timber falcon]

its the same

chances

i think....

[mighty stump]

Wide Guard doesn't fail after Protect

[solid frigate]

For Booster SpA,but i honestly put those EVs for Defensive

not sure

[timber falcon]

tofu do u have that one rly bulky rilla set btw

[mighty stump]

Rillaboom @ Assault Vest
Ability: Grassy Surge
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 12 Atk / 28 Def / 172 SpD / 44 Spe
Impish Nature

• Fake Out
• Grassy Glide
• Wood Hammer
• U-turn

[timber falcon]

thanks

[gentle crag]

otot8953 has given 1 Gen Rep to woodtofu

[timber falcon]

then thats a bit of a problem

[solid frigate]

[solid frigate]

it honestly survived pretty well against Flutter, but i am not too sure about others any good EVs?

[timber falcon]

im no genius on bolt, but here are top 3 pikalytics set Modest 196/0/132/108/68/45.312%
Modest 132/0/108/100/4/1645.214%
Modest 244/0/60/100/20/844.739%

wait a min

i thinki have dragos set saved

[solid frigate]

i don't need speed btw

[timber falcon]

How come

[solid frigate]

Trick Room.

[timber falcon]

Oh yeah

Well more bulk for bolt I guess

Stormclaw (Raging Bolt) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 116 HP / 92 Def / 124 SpA / 100 SpD / 76 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk

• Thunderbolt
• Thunderclap
• Draco Meteor
• Snarl

[solid frigate]

i am so scared of my Team gets destroyed by Trick Room so thats why i make it have no speed

[timber falcon]

This can work without AV btw

But it’s preferred

[solid frigate]

Zenitsu (Raging Bolt) @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 156 HP / 132 Def / 100 SpA / 116 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk

• Thunderbolt
• Draco Meteor
• Thunderclap
• Snarl

Not sure if this work

[timber falcon]

Idk about no protect

Or calm mind

[solid frigate]

i want to give it Protect,but Snarl ensures i won't get screwed by Calyrex

and Miraidon

[timber falcon]

I reckon Thunderbolt gets sacced then

Cause it looks like AV bolt, with no AV

[solid frigate]

Blame that AV Incin-

[timber falcon]

Does incin need it?

[solid frigate]

VGC Menace (Incineroar) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 204 HP / 4 Atk / 188 Def / 84 SpD / 28 Spe
Impish Nature

• Flare Blitz
• Knock Off
• Fake Out
• U-turn

[timber falcon]

I feel like av incin isn’t needed all that much in the team

Bolt really wants it more for this scenario

[solid frigate]

Safety Googles then

[timber falcon]

Yep

[solid frigate]

https://pokepast.es/4008b04eca4b09ef

Hope Incin actually survives some strong hits but then again,Grimmsnarl exists

[timber falcon]

bolt is missing 4 evs

[solid frigate]

Zenitsu (Raging Bolt) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 156 HP / 132 Def / 100 SpA / 116 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk

• Thunderbolt
• Draco Meteor
• Thunderclap
• Snarl

[timber falcon]

yep thats better, sets are fixed

[solid frigate]

Anything Else for Grimmsnarl?

and Terapagos?

[timber falcon]

no idea abou grimsnarl sets except it wants bulk

same with pagos

[solid frigate]

I guess its fine then

currently it survived really well

welp time to get 3 Fresh Start Mochis

[timber falcon]

gl

[solid frigate]

which i tried for 30 Minutes,No Fresh Start Mochis

not even a single piece

[timber falcon]

i trade for em tbh, but its definitely not worth it

[solid frigate]

yea..

[chrome knot]

just give me them ill do your evs

not hard

[solid frigate]

ummmmmmmmm-

[chrome knot]

i make Neil Patels & some of Ruby’s teams

[solid frigate]

hold on

[chrome knot]

holding

[solid frigate]

maybe later

i wanna do some testing first

[polar nest]

bois

[timber falcon]

have u cooked?

[polar nest]

i have

[timber falcon]

lets see it

[polar nest]

https://pokepast.es/b27ef6f2c8f94966

iron moth team

now time to try some rentals

[timber falcon]

uhhh

what is venasuar doing

[chrome knot]

just lemme knowwww ill be making my friends orlando team soon so

[polar nest]

i need counter for flutter mane and ogerpon

[timber falcon]

ima be honest, the team doesnt look great

[chrome knot]

if you need anything just ping

[polar nest]

and i want grass type for spore immunity

[timber falcon]

evs are just max max repeat

[mighty stump]

Need to wipe Oreos from my memory

[chrome knot]

so what am i gonna do

[mighty stump]

Wipe it from my memory

[polar nest]

i used recommended bcuz idk that much about evs

[timber falcon]

neither do i

[polar nest]

but it can be changed

[timber falcon]

i just steal sets lol

[polar nest]

thats why its max max repeat

[timber falcon]

u should ask around

[polar nest]

yea, i just wanna build my own teams for practice

[polar nest]

smort

[mighty stump]

Without being aware of the fundamentals of the metagame + team structure, it's a pretty inefficient way of practicing teambuilding

[chrome knot]

im makin smores do you want some

[mighty stump]

Teambuilding is also practiced in game through consistent tweaking as well

[mighty stump]

No thanks

[gentle crag]

woodtofu has given 1 Gen Rep to setsumizi

[timber falcon]

LOL

[polar nest]

i used wolfeyVGC's fundimentals

[timber falcon]

Which are…..

[solid frigate]

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regg-2100544176-erdxt4e3ueasgwza25gf0e9g6lpny31pw

Ok Idk i need some time adjusting my New EV Spreads on my Mons

[polar nest]

always have grass fire water

[mighty stump]

Stating you watched a few youtube videos also doesn't necessarily mean you put into practice the percieved advice correctly either

[polar nest]

true

[mighty stump]

Cause requiring FWG is already wrong

[timber falcon]

They aren’t wolfes, their balance

[polar nest]

ah

[mighty stump]

Teams don't always require FWG

[timber falcon]

True

[polar nest]

yea my rain team doesnt have FWG

[mighty stump]

Particularly when there are other defensive cores to also consider.

or offensive cores, depending.

[solid frigate]

its jjust a bonus,Heck My Main Reg F team is Rain Centered

[polar nest]

i was tryna make my own core

one of the things i wanted was a reliable ogerpon counter and flutter mane counter

they both have poison weakness so i got venusaur

[mighty stump]

Flutter Mane isn't weak to Poison. It's neutral.

[polar nest]

oh it is?

[solid frigate]

Ghost Type Benefits the Resist

[polar nest]

oh oops

[solid frigate]

You much rather worry about Steel

[polar nest]

so the core is iron hands iron moth miraidon

[mighty stump]

Your core is -3 to Ground

[polar nest]

i got urshifu bcuz those three are weak to ground

[timber falcon]

That rilla set is crazy

[solid frigate]

I'm suprised he did not Fake Out

[mighty stump]

Urshifu isn't always going to be in a good spot deal with Ground-types

[polar nest]

hmm

maybe i need a core switch

[timber falcon]

Not using FO is the last of his problems, he ran tera fire blast and EQ

[solid frigate]

Ogerpon? Wellspring Specfically

[polar nest]

but i do wanna use iron moth

[mighty stump]

Teams conceptually need to have a gameplan in mind that accounts for matchups relevant to the metagame as well.

[timber falcon]

Waterpon struggles with Groudon

[solid frigate]

The opposing Unova my home! fainted!
Me:Wait did i destroyed Unova-

[timber falcon]

But there’s no meta

[solid frigate]

Yet

[timber falcon]

Or is there meta now

Cause I’m seeing patterns

[solid frigate]

Use Reg F Meta maybe?

[mighty stump]

I know people may make it seem like theres "no metagame" becuase it's in a settling process

But like let's be honest, we know what's good, we know what's bad

[timber falcon]

Pretty much

[solid frigate]

i mean could i use Reg F's Meta? they look pretty similar

[timber falcon]

Like when making a team you know what to plan for

[polar nest]

yea i was tryna use counter for ogerpon and flutter mane

[mighty stump]

That's not a gameplan though

[timber falcon]

Are MUs not plans?

[mighty stump]

No, because it just sounds like you;re trying to play to not lose to Flutter and Ogerpon

What do you do when it's not Flutter and Ogerpon

[timber falcon]

Oh yeah I’m not supposed to do that

[mighty stump]

Whats your plan

What are you doing with these mons

[timber falcon]

Can a plan be to sweep

[mighty stump]

I should be able to point to Pokemon and it's move and it's teras and you shold be able to explain to me why that's there, what it does

[mighty stump]

Everything plans to sweep

Just the method differs.

Whats the method?

[timber falcon]

Cause I have leads, but the moves depend on what I’m against

[solid frigate]

EIther Set Up Sweep,Burst Sweep

[polar nest]

yea this makes sense

[timber falcon]

Burst is what I do i think for lunala team

[solid frigate]

Set Up for my team

[mighty stump]

People make the mistake of playing Pokemon and looking at things on a 1-1 basis all the time when in reality theres things outside of just looking at the Pokemon interacting to consider; resources

[polar nest]

well should i still have miraidon?

[timber falcon]

Confused, for my main team I lead lunala chi-yu most of the time, is that a game plan?

[mighty stump]

HP is a resource, turns are a resource, moves are a resource. What resources are you constantly eliminating and building up for yourself when creating these board positions that are relevant to forwarding your gameplan

[timber falcon]

Cause what u do differences on the mons in against

[mighty stump]

Is it?

[timber falcon]

For example Kyogre, the sweep turns into chip away

With snarl and wide guard

[molten oasis]

[polar canyon]

Then after that?

[timber falcon]

Continue until something happens

[polar canyon]

That's like what makes something not a plan

Not having it planned

[mighty stump]

Sounds like you're waiting for the opponent to do something else before you react to it

[timber falcon]

Yeah pretty much

[mighty stump]

So it just sounds like you're playing not to lose to the opponent rather than playing to win

The options you consider when you have these two mindsets are different

[polar canyon]

Playing considering what the opponent does is important but can't be the only thing you do

[timber falcon]

So would I just use a different MU for such situations

[mighty stump]

If you're waiting for your opponent to move then react to it might as well just give them the controller to play for you

For each MU you expect to see, you ideally want to have an idea of what board state you're trying to develop and work towards and how to capitalise agaisnt certain expected actions after you've forced them into said actions

[timber falcon]

I mean it’s also a guessing game at times, il switch it up and not go for wide guard or smth

[mighty stump]

Yeah but thats then luck based

and inconsistent by nature

[timber falcon]

I mean most people will realise spout and pulse aren’t gonna work right?

[mighty stump]

It's never truly a blind guessing game, all the information is there

[timber falcon]

But some times I do run rilla into that MU

[mighty stump]

Do you realise that if you're forced to click Wide Guard 8 times that means you have a Lunala that's not moving for 8 turns?

[timber falcon]

This situation is for Kyogre town though so I thought it was fine

[polar canyon]

What if you end up in a situation where they benefit on trying until you don't use wide guard?

[timber falcon]

Torn*

[timber falcon]

Yeah this is a problem for me, it really is guessing

[mighty stump]

Torn can just Taunt Lunala out of Wide Guard.

What do you do then

[timber falcon]

Well if I see Kyogre rilla is always at the back or leading

[rancid valve]

whimsicott too

[mighty stump]

Kyogre teams have anti-priority.

[timber falcon]

I’ll meteor beam torn if chi-yu dies on all cases

[polar canyon]

Don't forget the possible farigiraf

[timber falcon]

I try OHKO Kyogre most of the time

With wood hammer and wide guard to stop bleak wind

Is 2 different leads into Kyogre torn

[mighty stump]

So now you're just guessing then

[timber falcon]

Huh

I never thought of that

[rancid valve]

But doesn't have the Kyogre player have to guess too?

[mighty stump]

That';s all im hearing dude, it's unclear what your gameplan into TornOgre is

[mighty stump]

The difference here is this:

[timber falcon]

I think the gameplan that works most of the time is leading lunala, rilla and going for the instant OHKo

[polar canyon]

If people know what they're doing they'll stop your ohko

[timber falcon]

The point is to get Kyogre off the field

[mighty stump]

• TornOgre knows what targets they have to consider, before they can freely use Water Spout/Pulse to essentialyl steamroll a team

• Lunala Wide Guard/Rillaboom should already be within their expected considerations.

• OTOT doesn't know what theyre going to lead. For them it's a real guessing game. praying to Lunala/Chi-Yu to just Wide Guard Snarlspam and have Rillaboom in the back to try and deal with Kyogre

[polar canyon]

Even if it's just switching out?

[mighty stump]

Can you see how the approach will be different

[timber falcon]

Mhm, lunala is able to deal with it well

[rancid valve]

What does the rest of your team look like?

[mighty stump]

There is no proactive (keyword) plan to actually then capitalise on your advantage

What are you gonna do against the Kyogres that run Hydro Pump?

[polar canyon]

You can end up on a situation where they have to switch out the kyogre but it doesn't mean you won't have to deal with it later

[timber falcon]

https://pokepast.es/03087eba8cbb4df1

[timber falcon]

I pray they don’t have it tbh

I’ve seen only 2 that have

[mighty stump]

So you're working under multiple assumptions that

• They don't know about Wide Guard
• They don't consider Wide Guard
• Will let you KO them with Rillaboom

[timber falcon]

Yes

[mighty stump]

So you have 3 points of failure here

[timber falcon]

You’d be suprised how many don’t consider it

Yes…

[polar canyon]

Well at least you see the problem here right?

[timber falcon]

Yeah I’m noticing that a skilled player isn’t gonna let it slide

[mighty stump]

I'm not, but I'm also not the type of player that thinks if something is "good enough" means I shuoldn't improve upon it

[rancid valve]

honestly, I'm not surprised about that

[mighty stump]

You see players in 3-1 commanding positions on stream that still make switches rather than just mashing buttons because they know its a good habit to build

[timber falcon]

I mean the team is nice and works, but I guess I need to decide an MU for that situation

[rancid valve]

I mean, Kyogre is getting really low usage in general

[polar canyon]

The higher you get, more people will understand what's happening

[timber falcon]

and I understand their understanding

[polar canyon]

Do you?

[timber falcon]

Sometimes

[mighty stump]

G1: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2091008812-w4bat43ccpa0necrjssvj43m149r03spw
G2: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2091012075-0hef7d6lp6x4fdbp2x3pwthvgm1gcscpw

Example of my NPAA match understanding fully what my gameplan is without having to consider theirs due to the rigid structure of the team.

[polar canyon]

The articuno team

[timber falcon]

So then what do I do

Send out mons I think will work?

[mighty stump]

See, the other part here that convinces me you don't have a true gameplan is the doubt you have in your approach

If it was a thought-through plan you shuold be able to explain to me step-by-step what you would do in the majority common situations of good Kyogre teams

[timber falcon]

I do have a set of 4 mons I bring into such teams though

[mighty stump]

I was trying to poke holes to try and get you to see that you just need to learn to capitalise and keep proactively playing

[timber falcon]

Ok so I just gotta know what they wanna do, then stop it?

Cause kyogre wants to sweep with pulse or spout is my first guess

[polar canyon]

You need to have your actions that they have to try to defend too

[mighty stump]

You consider the tools the opponents have, account for it, then develop your own board to reduce their resources

[molten oasis]

What’s going on?

[timber falcon]

I’m struggling with kyogre MU

[molten oasis]

Ah

[mighty stump]

If Lunala-Chi-Yu is your lead

What do you do if they lead Urshifu-RS

What about Archaludons

Landorus-I

All expected common mons to be on Rain teams

[timber falcon]

At the back it’s normally Rilla, moongus

For rain teams

[mighty stump]

So what is your lead here?

It's not Lunala-Chi Yu anymore suddenly

[timber falcon]

They’re at the back

Lunala and chi yu are still leading

[molten oasis]

Is leading chi yu into kyogre a good idea?

[timber falcon]

No

Not at all

[polar canyon]

Well you see

If you know it's a bad idea, you could do something else

[timber falcon]

I just wanted to stick to the leads I had tbh

But I see where I’ve gone wrong

[molten oasis]

Is it working?

[timber falcon]

Yeah surprisingly

[polar canyon]

I thought you were struggling

[timber falcon]

With different outcomes

[polar canyon]

With the kyogre mu

[timber falcon]

One hydropump and it all goes down

It’s a guessing game Mau

MU*

[molten oasis]

What do you do into torn kyogre lead

[polar canyon]

If you know it's inconcistent, you could try to have different tools in your toolkit that you know can deal with the issue

[timber falcon]

Most if the time they waterspout and I wide guard, then as I said I spam until they do smth

[molten oasis]

Hmm, im about ti take a test so like, good luck not sure how to help ya out atm

[timber falcon]

It’s just that most don’t have hydropump but I know damn well they might,p

[polar canyon]

They can do something that you're not prepared for, how about that?

[timber falcon]

And if they do I take a big loss

[polar canyon]

That's a good reason to not wait until they do something

[timber falcon]

If chi-yu dies to hydropump is bring in Rilla

[polar canyon]

You have to do something, and if there isn't something that you can do maybe you should revise your strategy

[timber falcon]

The start works for classic kyogre sets, which is what I’ve prepped for

Herbie told he hydropump is unnatural and I agree, which is why I haven’t prepped as hard for it

[polar canyon]

Think of it like an argument

Maybe a bad analogy

[timber falcon]

After I lost to it

[polar canyon]

But in an argument the other person will throw arguments at you, and you'll have to defend yourself

[mighty stump]

Is it not natural development for a Kyogre to opt for a Single Target move knowing a lot of counterplay around it revolves around Wide Guard?

[polar canyon]

If you spend the entire conversation only replying to defend yourself

[timber falcon]

I mean don’t they usually run prot, ice beam, origin pulse , prot/T bolt? ,

[timber falcon]

I know I’ve done something wrong, but idk how to fix it

[polar canyon]

That's nice

[molten oasis]

A lot of them are scarf

[mighty stump]

I'm just saying, always know your next steps

That's it

[polar nest]

ok

[mighty stump]

Always have an idea of what you're going to do next rather than wait for them to do something

[polar canyon]

The definition of planning is knowing what you're gonna do

[polar canyon]

Or something like that idk

[timber falcon]

Oh ok so don’t just wait for them to make a move

[polar nest]

https://pokepast.es/ce7fff2c3d159ce8

[timber falcon]

Make it first?

[polar nest]

now imma go play rentals

[mighty stump]

Even from the first few turns one can already know what the wincons are, what your important checks are, and even consider what they might have in the back according to their brings

[mighty stump]

Yea

Move

[timber falcon]

But what if I want to just chip away at it

[polar canyon]

Yeah like never go into a match only bringing one win condition

If they shut it down it's over

[timber falcon]

Cause once it’s off the field I meteor beam torn immediately and Rilla comes out

[mighty stump]

And that's valid. What i'm trying to again, get at, is that you need to be able to explain what you;'re doing and why

[polar nest]

this time the pokemon correspond with each other

[timber falcon]

Ok so just have a reason for my moves instead of playing not to lose to what their doing

[mighty stump]

I never said your line was specifically bad, I just started questioning it and it fell apart because you had no structured idea

[polar nest]

yea

this time there is a structured idea

[timber falcon]

Do I have to consider hydro pump most of the time?

[mighty stump]

The whole point of a lot of my blogposts is to show the process in teambuilding with structure and reasons

[polar canyon]

Just know it's a possibility

[mighty stump]

If youre going to click Wide Guard and Snarl and wait to force Kyogre out

Why not just lead Lunala + Rillaboom to immediately just force Kyogre out

so you can Meteor Beam next turn anywayas

[timber falcon]

I do that sometimes, but mostly chi-yu

[mighty stump]

But with Chi-Yu you lose to Hydro Pump

[polar canyon]

When you do that, does it work?

[timber falcon]

I know I shouldn’t rly be doing that

[timber falcon]

Only if they don’t have hydro pump

[polar canyon]

I mean lunala + rilla

[polar nest]

oh crap

idk any team ids

[timber falcon]

Oh yeah always, no one tends to run defensive tar kyogre

[mighty stump]

Also, why Snarl?

What i'm also pointing out here is

[molten oasis]

I see grass pretty often but ok

[timber falcon]

Chip + lunala is bulky so it helps

[mighty stump]

You're running Wide Guard, you don't need to mitigate damage youre never going to take.

TornOgre only runs Spread moves if you ran with that expectation/assumption

[timber falcon]

I’ve never seen it though, just me I guess

[mighty stump]

So why did you never just Dark Pulse and punish switch ins

[timber falcon]

Torn

[mighty stump]

Wide Guard

Bleakwind never hits

[timber falcon]

I guess that makes more sense

[mighty stump]

You just committed redundancy

Dark Pulse reduces HP heavily and more significantly, reducing Water Spout';s damage output

[polar canyon]

In theory the torn could just have hurricane but that doesn't ohko rilla does it?

[timber falcon]

It’s never gonna run that

[polar canyon]

Does it learn that or just air slash?

[timber falcon]

But it’s AV Rilla so I assume it should hold

[mighty stump]

Bleakwind is just better for Torn since you can just Taunt away Wide Guards.

[timber falcon]

Air slash or bleakwind

Is what they run

[mighty stump]

For Kyogre I personally want a Single Target option because it cannot standalone remove its move wall

[timber falcon]

So would u run hydropump?

[polar canyon]

And do you do pump or coverage?

[molten oasis]

Pump hits stupid hard from kyogre

[timber falcon]

And it’s one of its weaker water type moves

[mighty stump]

People overmemed Hydro Pump missing

[polar canyon]

What

[timber falcon]

Compared to pulse and spout which dominate both

[mighty stump]

Hydro Pump hits harder than Origin Pulse

[polar canyon]

I think you're mistaking pump for water pulse and vice versa

[timber falcon]

Oh

[mighty stump]

Because Origin Pulse gets a 25% damage reduction for being Spread

[dapper crag]

Move: Hydro Pump

No additional effect.

Type

Water

Category

Special

Power

110

Accuracy

80

PP (max)

5 (8)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Does not make contact.

SableyeBot version 4.27.0

Move: Origin Pulse

No additional effect.

Type

Water

Category

Special

Power

110

Accuracy

85

PP (max)

10 (16)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Does not make contact.

Pulse

Boosted by Mega Launcher.

SableyeBot version 4.27.0

[timber falcon]

Pulse looks better in most aspects though

[polar canyon]

It has water spout

[molten oasis]

I love missing kos

[timber falcon]

I never knew this

[mighty stump]

Just saying Hydro Pump hits as hard as max BP Water Spout

[timber falcon]

Spread moves have a nerf???

[mighty stump]

witha 2% variation

Spread moves do only 75% damage

if it's more than one target

[timber falcon]

Man how many mechanics don’t I know of

[polar canyon]

Origin pulse misses almost as often as hydro pump so might as well

Pump + water spout

[molten oasis]

Technically more as it’s spread so you have a chance to miss both targets

[polar canyon]

Technically less then since usually you hit at least 1

[timber falcon]

Don’t ppl use pulse cause it’s spread

[molten oasis]

Yes

[polar canyon]

They do

[timber falcon]

Well overall I think I’ve learnt my lesson here

[polar canyon]

It's gonna be fun to watch tournaments if the meta doesn't end up centered around caly ice and terapagos

[timber falcon]

Have a plan

[timber falcon]

Caly-ice seems easier to deal with than caly-s for me

[molten oasis]

the meta will likely be centered around the fucking horses

[solid frigate]

https://youtu.be/mx-6WW4L3n4?si=9UJzF2sT6cs1k6UT

The Title is right But the Thumbnail ;-;

[wicked moon]

lol

[timber falcon]

Stellar Tera was a huge disappointment

[polar canyon]

It's nice to have hope sometimes

[timber falcon]

Unless u are terapagos

[polar canyon]

Oh that's so wrong

So incorrect

[solid frigate]

Wolfey Why- why did you do this to Terapagos Stans/Players-

[timber falcon]

Who made this vid though

[solid frigate]

Wolfey,the Video i agree on,but the Thumbnail-

[polar canyon]

But really how else would you represent stellar tera in a way that's easy to recognize

[timber falcon]

Wolfe wild for that terapagos slander

[torn parrot]

Wouldn’t that make it have a lower chance to miss because it gives you two chances to hit

[solid frigate]

He only said about Stellar Tera,He is unsure about Terapagos

[timber falcon]

Oh ok

[polar canyon]

That's what I'm saying

[timber falcon]

Tbh I skipped the vid cause I know stellar Tera isn’t worth it half the time

[molten oasis]

It’s higher

[atomic portal]

ye its basic math

[solid frigate]

Stellar Tera is just so damn bad

[molten oasis]

Cuz it’s 85% for both

[torn parrot]

vs 80% for only one

[molten oasis]

Meaning you have a like, I believe 68%? Chance ti hit both targets

[polar canyon]

Depends if you consider only one pokemon being hit as a full miss

[timber falcon]

Lower odds than I thought

[torn parrot]

Yeah but if comparing to hydro pump the goal isn’t to hit two targets

It’s to hit something in general

[polar canyon]

It's like how triple axel 90 accuracy is misleading since you only hit all 3 72% of the time

[atomic portal]

roll a dice and if it lands on 1 u lose, vs roll 2 dice and if both land on 1 you lose

what has a higher chance 1 dice rolling 1 or both dice rolling 1

[timber falcon]

Uhh

The 2nd one

[polar canyon]

It depends on how you view it, because you can see it as 2 dices and if one rolls 1 you lose

[solid frigate]

also if Stellar Type is a Real Pokemon Type not like rn its a Tera Type? what are the Strengths and weaknesses?

[timber falcon]

Lowers attack stats

[polar canyon]

Tera is weak to tera

I mean stellar

[atomic portal]

1/6 for 1 dice vs 1/36 for you to roll the same number twice in a row

[solid frigate]

No i mean Base Type

[molten oasis]

No the first one

It’s basic math

[solid frigate]

Like Base Type pokemon has that type

[polar canyon]

Y'all aren't realizing that everyone is correct

It's a higher chance of at least one missing, but it's also a higher chance of at least one hitting

[timber falcon]

I read it wrong

[torn parrot]

I think it’s up to preference whether you want hydro or origin pulse

pulse gives you two dice
Hydro hits harder

[molten oasis]

https://tenor.com/view/smiling-friends-mr-boss-smiling-friends-mr-boss-smiling-friends-boss-oogly-goo-gif-3090293690467084064

[timber falcon]

My brain is rotting here

[molten oasis]

I can’t math anymore I’ve been doing math since midnight

[atomic portal]

gg u pass the 5th grade

[timber falcon]

Just explaining no need for that

[polar canyon]

Pulse is a backup for when origin pulse won't be high bp while pump is its own option, I think that's a pretty valid reason to use pump

[timber falcon]

So of a kyogre was to run pump, what would the moveset be?

[solid frigate]

Water Spout,Hydro Pump,Thunder,Ice Beam

[polar canyon]

Protect

[solid frigate]

and that

[timber falcon]

Depends on the set though right

[polar canyon]

Yeah

[timber falcon]

Could be scarf

[atomic portal]

oh no ur good - wasnt a jab at anyone

mbmb

[timber falcon]

Dw about it

[polar canyon]

If it's scarf I'd run all 3 and ice beam but I'm saying it as someone who hasn't played kyogre yet

I'm doing dusk mane rn

[timber falcon]

How’s it going

Also I’ve pretty much retired the lunala team on showdown so that’s that

It’s rly great I recommend

[polar canyon]

https://pokepast.es/c0755315424d7be3 need a better matchup with caly shadow, terapagos

[slate spindle]

Update: I won a school tournament with the team

[polar canyon]

That's singles right?

[timber falcon]

Atp I try and always have wideguard on a team

[polar canyon]

It has gliscor so it must be

Dirty little guy using gliscor ghold

[timber falcon]

Gliscor is a goated mon

[slate spindle]

Yea, 6v6 AG. One legenedary/mythical/paradox per team

[timber falcon]

But not it’s competitive usage

[timber falcon]

Better not have been stall gliscor

[polar canyon]

I don't even play ou but I know how people feel about gliscor + ghold

It is

[slate spindle]

Nah, it was bulky swords dance

[timber falcon]

Oh god I hate that set to much with a burning passion, good thing it wasn’t

[dapper crag]

https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/afd/gholdengo.png

[solid frigate]

smogon set?

[timber falcon]

This is a respectable set

[slate spindle]

No, it was just the rules of the tournament

[polar canyon]

Was there a prize?

[solid frigate]

imagine My school did a VGC Tournament on Reg G- I'm gonna Terrorise the school with Terapagos

[timber falcon]

My school is never doing that lol

[slate spindle]

First place got 4 packs of pokemon cards and is titled champion of the school

[timber falcon]

Is the school Pokémon based or smth?

[slate spindle]

Second and third got 3 and 2 packs respectively

[polar canyon]

I'll do screens terapagos if my uni has a reg g tournament I don't even care if it's tryharding

[timber falcon]

That’s dirty

[polar canyon]

Bros going to naranja academy

[slate spindle]

No, it was just a school club that organized the tournament, and it was on showdown

[molten oasis]

Hmm

[timber falcon]

Screens terapagos should be outlawed I swear

It’s beatable but god damn annoying

[molten oasis]

Wouldn’t other restricteds work better there?

[timber falcon]

This makes sense I guess, champion of the school title threw me off

[polar canyon]

I want a dusk mane team but if I want I can swap for something better

Zacian or smth

[solid frigate]

same,and i want one to terrorise their minds with Terapagos

[molten oasis]

It’s not necessarily better into caly but zama is good into terapagos

[timber falcon]

Bouta show them the power of lunala meteor beam 🗣️🔥

[polar canyon]

Idbp into caly-s

[solid frigate]

same but with Terapagos Meteor Beam

but the commentary would be sucked,cuz i feel like my school only i am the competitve Player-

[timber falcon]

Btw what moveset does eternatus run

[polar canyon]

I wonder if terapagos is good in smogon singles ubers

[polar canyon]

None, people don't use that fella

[timber falcon]

Well I will

I know it has meteor beam but that’s all I got

[polar canyon]

Does it?

[polar nest]

ok

[dapper crag]

Eternatus's moveset:

Physical Moves

Assurance, Body Slam, Brutal Swing, Cross Poison, Dragon Tail, Facade, Fly, Giga Impact, Gunk Shot, Outrage, Payback, Poison Jab, Poison Tail, Take Down

Special Moves

Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, Dynamax Cannon, Eternabeam, Fire Blast, Fire Spin, Flamethrower, Flash Cannon, Hyper Beam, Meteor Beam, Mystical Fire, Round, Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Snore, Solar Beam, Tera Blast, Venoshock

Status Moves

Agility, Confuse Ray, Cosmic Power, Dragon Dance, Endure, Gravity, Light Screen, Protect, Rain Dance, Recover, Reflect, Rest, Scary Face, Screech, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Sunny Day, Toxic, Toxic Spikes, Venom Drench

Notes

A move displayed with Bold text benefits from Same-Type Attack Bonus when used by Eternatus.

SableyeBot version 4.27.0

[polar canyon]

I checked it out but I must have glanced that

[timber falcon]

Yeah

[molten oasis]

Eternatus is a cosmic power stall Mon

[timber falcon]

But can it be offensive

[molten oasis]

You want meteor beam Lunala is right there

[solid frigate]

They said its below Average

[dapper crag]

Eternatus's moveset:

Physical Moves

Body Slam, Cross Poison, Dragon Tail, Facade, Fly, Giga Impact, Gunk Shot, Outrage, Poison Jab, Poison Tail, Take Down

Special Moves

Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, Dynamax Cannon, Fire Blast, Fire Spin, Flamethrower, Flash Cannon, Hyper Beam, Meteor Beam, Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Solar Beam, Tera Blast, Venoshock

Status Moves

Agility, Confuse Ray, Cosmic Power, Dragon Dance, Endure, Gravity, Light Screen, Protect, Rain Dance, Recover, Reflect, Rest, Scary Face, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Sunny Day, Toxic, Toxic Spikes

Notes

A move displayed with Bold text benefits from Same-Type Attack Bonus when used by Eternatus.

SableyeBot version 4.27.0

[timber falcon]

I like bulky mons that hit hard, and I’ve already done zama and lunala

[polar nest]

after a long time of tweaking and structuring i came up with this https://pokepast.es/f0cf4121e9f2b663

[polar canyon]

Gen 9 learnset

[molten oasis]

Groudon

Don’t use Eternatus

It’s not worth

[polar nest]

also does any1 know where i can get a team id

[timber falcon]

Groudon seems boring though

[polar canyon]

If you could use 6 restricteds maybe eternatus would be kinda almost worth it

[molten oasis]

Or go caly ice

[solid frigate]

says the one who loves Groudon

[timber falcon]

As for a team

[molten oasis]

Groudon is pretty fun

[timber falcon]

I like it’s design

[polar canyon]

Wont stop people from using it

[forest arrow]

You got Kyurem W too, it’s pretty fun as well

[polar canyon]

It gets results

[timber falcon]

OH

kyurem black

[polar canyon]

You have to pick between clear amulet and loaded dice

[dapper crag]

Kyurem-Black's moveset:

Physical Moves

Aerial Ace, Avalanche, Body Press, Body Slam, Breaking Swipe, Brutal Swing, Cut, Dragon Claw, Dragon Tail, Dual Wingbeat, Endeavor, Facade, Fling, Fly, Freeze Shock, Frustration, Fusion Bolt, Giga Impact, Ice Fang, Icicle Spear, Iron Head, Outrage, Payback, Return, Rock Slide, Rock Smash, Rock Tomb, Scale Shot, Secret Power, Shadow Claw, Slash, Steel Wing, Stone Edge, Strength, Take Down, Zen Headbutt

Special Moves

Ancient Power, Blizzard, Draco Meteor, Dragon Breath, Dragon Pulse, Dragon Rage, Earth Power, Echoed Voice, Flash Cannon, Focus Blast, Freeze-Dry, Glaciate, Hidden Power, Hyper Beam, Hyper Voice, Ice Beam, Icy Wind, Psychic, Round, Shadow Ball, Sheer Cold, Signal Beam, Snore, Swift, Tera Blast, Weather Ball

Status Moves

Confide, Double Team, Dragon Cheer, Dragon Dance, Endure, Hail, Helping Hand, Hone Claws, Imprison, Laser Focus, Light Screen, Noble Roar, Protect, Rain Dance, Reflect, Rest, Roar, Roost, Safeguard, Scary Face, Sleep Talk, Snowscape, Substitute, Sunny Day, Swagger, Toxic

Notes

A move displayed with Bold text benefits from Same-Type Attack Bonus when used by Kyurem-Black.

SableyeBot version 4.27.0

[molten oasis]

No

Kyurem white, black is mid

[timber falcon]

But let’s be honest

[dapper crag]

Terapagos-Terastal's moveset:

Physical Moves

Body Press, Body Slam, Crunch, Double-Edge, Earthquake, Facade, Flare Blitz, Giga Impact, Gyro Ball, Headbutt, Heat Crash, Heavy Slam, Ice Spinner, Iron Head, Rapid Spin, Rock Slide, Stone Edge, Supercell Slam, Take Down, Wild Charge, Zen Headbutt

Special Moves

Ancient Power, Aura Sphere, Bug Buzz, Dark Pulse, Dazzling Gleam, Dragon Pulse, Earth Power, Energy Ball, Flamethrower, Flash Cannon, Hyper Beam, Ice Beam, Meteor Beam, Power Gem, Scorching Sands, Solar Beam, Stored Power, Surf, Tera Starstorm, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Tri Attack, Water Pulse, Weather Ball

Status Moves

Calm Mind, Endure, Gravity, Protect, Rain Dance, Rest, Roar, Rock Polish, Sleep Talk, Stealth Rock, Substitute, Sunny Day, Toxic, Withdraw

Notes

A move displayed with Bold text benefits from Same-Type Attack Bonus when used by Terapagos-Terastal.

SableyeBot version 4.27.0

[molten oasis]

As far as im aware I haven’t touched it

[timber falcon]

Black looks cooler

[polar canyon]

Nah

Kyurem > reshiram but zekrom w > zekrom b

[molten oasis]

That’s not a reason to use ky black over ky white

[solid frigate]

why i can see Terapagos dancing Happily in the rain-

[timber falcon]

I know I know I’ll not use it

[polar nest]

@molten oasis so u said i should use rentals where do i get a team id

[polar canyon]

Wait that's not right

[molten oasis]

#rental_teams

[polar canyon]

You get it

[polar nest]

oh

[solid frigate]

i might post my rental later when Reg G is Official in SV

[timber falcon]

U meant zekrom right

[polar canyon]

Yeah

zekrom white and zekrom black

[timber falcon]

What’s a fun mon to try and use that’s not S tier

Maybe palkia / dialga

[molten oasis]

No reg g teams until a few days before the format

[timber falcon]

He said that

[molten oasis]

OTOT you really want to do that? What is wrong with the meta

[polar canyon]

Loaded dice bax on stereoids BUT incineroar is everywhere

[solid frigate]

honestly Yes Dialga feels good

[molten oasis]

Oh sorry I’m tired

[timber falcon]

It’s more challenging

[molten oasis]

Go play Eternatus then

[solid frigate]

yeah i wanna see other Terapagos Teams and see if mine Aged Well

[timber falcon]

I have used caly-ice and it was much too easy tbh

[molten oasis]

You want a challenge do that, or play Rayquaza

[polar canyon]

Are you ready for the challenge

[timber falcon]

I’ll try eternatus cause I see the potential

[molten oasis]

good luck

[polar canyon]

Try using caly ice in high ladder

[polar nest]

wait

[polar canyon]

If it's easy you'll get there fast

[polar nest]

do the base stats get changed to lvl 50 in comp

[solid frigate]

in VGC yes

[polar nest]

DUDE

[timber falcon]

I stopped using it in the early reg G days at top 200, maybe times have changed

[molten oasis]

It’s not a big deal everyone is lvl 50

[polar canyon]

Be sure to set both to level 50 in calculator sites

[solid frigate]

agree

[molten oasis]

What is wrong with easy? Isn’t it fun to win?

[polar nest]

spent ages getting my whole vgc team to 100

the original crappy one

[timber falcon]

I like the challenge though, makes making teams feel much more like an achievement for me you know

[polar canyon]

Back then you'd have to get them to 100 if you want to use bottle caps

[solid frigate]

no it Automatically Convert it

[molten oasis]

I think later in a format yiu can go for trickier stuff when the meta is more settled but it’s still pretty wild I would not suggest playing things that are niche rn

[polar nest]

im so dumb

[timber falcon]

I know zama and lunala work

[molten oasis]

…can’t argue with that

[polar nest]

yea i know

[molten oasis]

zama is like top 10, maybe top 5

[polar nest]

i thought just health changed

[timber falcon]

Yeah see they’re good but not caly-ice/shadow good

[molten oasis]

Lunala is good

[timber falcon]

I might end up using groudon

[polar canyon]

I appreciate how easy it is to get bottle caps and only requiring level 50, now I don't have to be bothered to actually do breeding unless I want 0 speed/atk

[molten oasis]

alright just, have fun I ain’t gonna argue with you about this

[timber falcon]

I did doubt it before use, but it is actually very nice

[solid frigate]

I'm still sticking Terapagos cuz its the most comfortable one

[polar canyon]

I always doubt using chien/chi tu with a mon that's supposed to be more of a bulky setup than a sweeper

[timber falcon]

I think I’m going to use dialga, I feel like it’s a good mon but not used for reasons idk yet

[polar canyon]

You can try origin form

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 483: Dialga

Types

Steel/Dragon

Abilities

Pressure, Telepathy (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

100/120/120/150/100/90

Total

680

Other Formes

Dialga-Origin

SableyeBot version 4.27.0

Pokémon No. 483: Dialga-Origin

Types

Steel/Dragon

Abilities

Pressure, Telepathy (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

100/100/120/150/120/90

Total

680

Weight (Low Kick BP)

850kg (120 BP)

Height

7m

Introduced

Generation 8

Base Species

Dialga

Egg groups

Undiscovered

Gender Ratio

N/A: 100%

Required Item

Adamant Crystal

Color

White

SableyeBot version 4.27.0

[polar canyon]

Don't forget that the item to change forms also boosts stab moves

Like ogerpon masks

[timber falcon]

Ok that’s nice to know

[dapper crag]

Item: Adamant Crystal

If held by a Dialga, its Steel- and Dragon-type attacks have 1.2x power.

SableyeBot version 4.27.0

[timber falcon]

Ok I can work with this, tomorrow Ofc

Also I know my idea of building teams that aren’t using the strongest mons like caly-s for no good reason isn’t the best mentality, but I’m hoping I’ll grow out of it eventually

[solid frigate]

i feel like Using the strongest mon feels Like you would have higher chance to win

but for me,I have Guilt on it

[timber falcon]

It’s the piloting, it’s a whole new experience using mins that people prepare against

[chrome knot]

10..

[solid frigate]

Terapagos Might be top 5 for me

[chrome knot]

yes

[timber falcon]

Yeah it’s definitely up there

[solid frigate]

Smogon Players:Terapagos in Below Average!

Me:Hold my Grimmsnarl

[timber falcon]

Actually ima use caly-s rider

[molten oasis]

It’s really good

[timber falcon]

I have been told using meta mons helps understand the meta

[solid frigate]

thats a Good thing to learn

[molten oasis]

Body press was huge and not having ti worry about intimidate is super nice

[timber falcon]

Body press easily best thing zama could’ve gotten

[solid frigate]

Zama might finally be equal to his sister

[molten oasis]

It’s probably better

Zacian is still strong but it’s not dominant

[solid frigate]

yeah

Better but like not like SWSH

[polar canyon]

The best way to know a weakness is experiencing it

That's not something someone said I just made it up

But it sounds true

[polar canyon]

You could still run the signature move for mane right?

I never noticed how pokemon shield is harder than sword until I watched my little brother play it

[timber falcon]

After using caly-ice, I never lost to it I’m not joking

Cause I built teams that directly countered that mf

[polar canyon]

And hop's overleveled zacian did what zacian does

[polar nest]

monkes team is good

[polar canyon]

Which one?

[polar nest]

the newest one in rental teams

[polar canyon]

I used one he made to play sv ladder with a friend who never played competitive

We got a 9-0 win streak

[polar nest]

dayam

[polar canyon]

And got to laugh at the guy who used parting shot on kingambit

Twice

[polar nest]

lol

i did structure and make an iron moth team

https://pokepast.es/f0cf4121e9f2b663

[unkempt flax]

Does knock off, knock off covert cloak?

[timber falcon]

Yes

[polar canyon]

You can't name iron leaves after an apple product

It's literally verizon

[polar nest]

oh yea

[timber falcon]

Lmao mirai is coke?

[polar nest]

yea

[solid frigate]

More like Lemon Fanta-

[polar nest]

my koraidon is pepsi

yes

altough how would yall rate the team

[timber falcon]

The mons themselves look fine, but the flutter set is questionable

[polar canyon]

Also what's av verizon for

[polar nest]

grass for spore immunity, good in electric terrain becuase psyblade and good in sun because solar blade

[polar nest]

hmm, how so?

[polar canyon]

You know

That Verizon looks pretty impractical

[timber falcon]

52 defence does like, nothing

[polar nest]

ah

[polar canyon]

You need both miraidon to come in and torn to use sunny day to use the full extent of it?

[polar nest]

fixed

[polar nest]

ill use one or the other i think

[polar canyon]

It doesn't really look like a team great for sun

I think the whole team has to be one or the other

Because it's gonna be hard to commit to both sun and e terrain

[polar nest]

hmm ok

[polar canyon]

And sun urshifu water doesn't seem right

[foggy lodge]

It's not so hard

But water urshifu with sun

And also where is the bleakwind on Tornadus

[polar nest]

no more sun now

[polar canyon]

You can totally still pull off urshifu with sun if you just don't use sun for the match

[polar nest]

bleakwind is now there

[foggy lodge]

It can help a lot against some grass types or things like Urshifu

[foggy lodge]

Good

[polar nest]

whats better dazzling gleam or moonblast

[foggy lodge]

A more defensive tera on Miraidon seems better

[polar nest]

ok

[foggy lodge]

Tera Fairy and replacing Flash cannon with dazzing gleam

[foggy lodge]

Both, you can drop mystical fire

[polar nest]

ok

flutter set done

[pastel blade]

Wtf is wrong with the accuracy in this game

[polar canyon]

I'm still not really sold on av iron leaves

[polar nest]

should i drop av?

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 1010: Iron Leaves

Types

Grass/Psychic

Abilities

Quark Drive

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

90/130/88/70/108/104

Total

590

SableyeBot version 4.27.0

[polar canyon]

Oh yeah that's nice

[foggy lodge]

It doesn't really need an assault vest

[polar nest]

ok

[foggy lodge]

It needs something like a focus sash to not die because of it's existence

[polar canyon]

Or if you're going for damage might as well do life orb

[foggy lodge]

Caly-shadow, caly ice, groudon and koraidon force you to tera

[polar canyon]

That bulk is pretty good wym

[polar nest]

k i put focus sash and tera dragon

[polar canyon]

Oh the matchups

[foggy lodge]

Urshifu single strike also has a respectable bulk but it's typing force him to use focus sash

[polar nest]

i run mystic water

[polar canyon]

Single strike

[polar nest]

ah

im using rapid

[polar canyon]

You kinda also need to think of the matchups you'll be up against while building your team

[polar nest]

true

[foggy lodge]

Taunt on Tornadus

[polar nest]

over what?

[foggy lodge]

Because you don't have anything for trick room matches

[polar canyon]

Both knowing how to mantain your assets and how to leverage your options is important

[foggy lodge]

Icy wind

[polar nest]

kk

done

[foggy lodge]

The most common set would be tailwind, taunt, bleakwind and sunny/rain/protect

[polar nest]

i have protect

[polar canyon]

If one tr gets set up caly ice can kinda sweep the entire team

At some point I might just use goggles torn or something to taunt caly through rage powder

And have tera ghost for fake out

[polar nest]

ok

[foggy lodge]

Only thing about the taunt on tornadus is that against Farigiraf you are kinda just fucked up

[elder bridge]

What is a Pokémon that beats double fake out + bolt on a porygon Ursula team in reg f

[foggy lodge]

Because you can't taunt Farigiraf

[foggy lodge]

Farigiraf/Indeedee

[polar canyon]

And both of them are good for tr

You can do psyspam tr with indeedee

Do people still do that?

I think it's iron crown now

[foggy lodge]

I would change the P2 with Farigiraf or Indeedee

I really don't know in which teams bring P2 over something like Farigiraf or Indeedee

They have almost the same speed, and more different sets

[polar nest]

hmm

[polar canyon]

Calyrex ice and shadow stats look fan made

[foggy lodge]

And you don't have to be worrying so much about things like Knock off

[polar nest]

so farigaraf is a problem

[foggy lodge]

Farigiraf and Indeedee are a problem

A dark type would be good

Or you can use something like Kingambit

[polar nest]

hmm what mon to get rid of tho

[polar canyon]

Farigiraf usually has the option to tera

[foggy lodge]

Even if the TR goes up Kingambit gives you a way to play under TR

[polar nest]

yea

[foggy lodge]

Iron Leaves

[solid frigate]

agreed

[polar nest]

rip

ok so overlord or defiant?

[polar canyon]

Defiant always

You also have pressure on incineroar

[foggy lodge]

Always defiant

[polar canyon]

Instead of it having pressure on you

[polar nest]

got it

[foggy lodge]

Even things like Icy wind activate the defiant

Imagine getting moonblasted and activating the defiant

[polar canyon]

Bleakwind has a good chance for a speed drop

Do you ever forget that Sandsear can burn

Since when you use it with lando it doesn't

[foggy lodge]

Lando-I is played with sheer force

[polar canyon]

Yeah exactly

[foggy lodge]

It's basically non existent

But it's still dumb like why did you gave it 30% Burn chance

[polar canyon]

Imagine playing against a weezing and you get a sandsear burn on a physical attacker

[foggy lodge]

It's the same as scald what the fuc

[polar canyon]

To fit in with the other storm moves having 30% effects

[foggy lodge]

What was game freak thinking when they buffed the three genies with those moves

The three genies were the definition of power creep in gen 5

[polar canyon]

Giving them some new thing since they're important and got a new sister in legends arceus

[molten oasis]

Yes

[polar canyon]

On that note I wonder if we'll get a 4th member for a legendary trio in plza too

[foggy lodge]

For sure

Every trio has been updated in some way in the last 2 gens

[polar canyon]

4th legendary bird including galarian form

aquatro

[solid frigate]

i mean,Enamorus got it,so why not

[foggy lodge]

Kanto birds got galarian forms, the three dogs got paradox forms, the regis got regieleki and regidrago, the three genies got enamorus and the swords of justice got paradox

Latias and Latios?

Or Uxie Mesprit and Azelf?

[polar canyon]

Laties

[molten oasis]

They could start updated restricted legend trios

could

[foggy lodge]

That's for sure

We are getting Mega-Yveltal and Mega-Xerneas

[solid frigate]

Megas technically

[foggy lodge]

Or Zygarde 1000%

[foggy lodge]

Oh yeah

[solid frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/zygarde-nation-zygarde-pokemon-pokemon-x-y-pokemon-x-y-z-gif-10260932864677932331

[foggy lodge]

Then maybe the lake trio? But considering they didn't give them anything in Legends i see it hard

Or the tapus💀

[molten oasis]

We don’t need new terrain thanks

I want weather legendaries for sand and snow