of course its a skill issue if I didnt have I wouldnt be looking at the easier archetype
#competitive_discussion
dull ibex
molten oasis
Gouging fire gambit is also more difficult than just paonite imo
solid frigate
there is no archetype eaiser than Paonite
dull ibex
I need to learn when to bring paonite and when not too
thats my barrier for paonite
flutterfish glimm ho is the route im going
molten oasis
What’s sets (besides glimm)
dull ibex
dull ibex
its time stamped
solid frigate
i might sleep soon so yeah Drago maybe give Tornadus later
molten oasis
I forgot about that fuck
dull ibex
I could also try balance so im less reliant on my leading skill
molten oasis
Do you think you can play balance?
solid frigate
I forgot about that fuck
Thats like me moment
dull ibex
I have no idea
molten oasis
You could try
Id suggest either bolt double fake out or gouging fire howl
Dozo ting Lu variant probably
solid frigate
I forgot about that fuck
i mean if you are now ok then send it if you want
molten oasis
I’m getting food atm so I can’t lol
solid frigate
I’m getting food atm so I can’t lol
maybe tmr 5 hours later tho
yes its 3:30 Am in my time
and i haven't sleep cuz i am still in prep
molten oasis
Oki
molten oasis
Gn
dull ibex
yeah im kinda bad at this game atm
charred saddle
does storm drain stop AoE moves like surf/muddy water?
or is it only redirecting single target water
molten oasis
yeah im kinda bad at this game atm
You haven’t been playing it’s fine
molten oasis
does storm drain stop AoE moves like surf/muddy water?
Pretty sure it eats water spouts so yes
solid frigate
does storm drain stop AoE moves like surf/muddy water?
protects you from wate type damage (And Allies) but when you using it it still attacks it,kinda like Lightning rod
molten oasis
Go to bed
dapper crag
SableyeBot version 4.26.2
molten oasis
Does it not do that?
atomic mural
bro some kid just used floral healing on his pokemon protecting
molten oasis
I thought that’s what it did
solid frigate
bro some kid just used floral healing on his pokemon protecting
wait,aren't you a kid-
atomic mural
well i dont do that
molten oasis
charred saddle
molten oasis
Lmfao
cyan smelt
I thought that metagross was about to go tera normal explosion
molten oasis
Metagross mirror lol
charred saddle
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2090757590
ogerpon and gastrodon pairing is actually very fun
very much so haha
i can safely play into some dumb plays
charred saddle
yeah idk haha
maybe just low elo stuff 
its a new account for new team 
liked it so far
https://pokepast.es/4d86085c41eb9f21
lmk if theres any inputs or anything
molten oasis
yea
charred saddle
i didnt even realize its 11
i dont think it really matters
its not a tailwind team, so itll be outsped anyways
quite tempted to get BM to 31 IV speed to ensure outspeeding some stuff outside TR
like incin
nvm iirc bm is still slower
meh ill think about the speed later on
molten oasis
i dont think it really matters <:shrug:1176946726796542126>
its not a tailwind...
just 31 anyway in the situation it does matter
charred saddle
yeah maybe so
ill see more into the speed tierings later
still got a lot of stuff to do
molten oasis
fair
molten oasis
entei, and hands of all things?
dull ibex
Yep
molten oasis
why
molten oasis
it should be really easy to shut down tr with overwhelming damage against the tr setter
what does entei even do
dull ibex
Prio
dull ibex
it should be really easy to shut down tr with overwhelming damage against the tr...
this is not how that works all of the time
dull ibex
youre like, always faster why do you need prio
Shutting down tw, sometimes I'm in tr
I could use Chi yu over entei
molten oasis
i dont see any reason not to run chi yu on a sun team
dull ibex
I would switch to booster mane over specs mane in that case
molten oasis
also the tr things are like, fari which explodes to a double up from chi yu and mane
and cress occasionally
and half the time the tr abusers are hat which you can use snarl to mitigate damage
dull ibex
Hands is also ridiculous tanky
dull ibex
Man I have a wacky incin spread ngl
dull ibex
and hands just is not very good rn
That's not true, it's pretty good atill
molten oasis
well
dull ibex
I have like av offensive incin lmao
molten oasis
incin, flutter, lando i, rilla, gouging fire are pretty bad mu's for it
rilla is ok
the others suck
dull ibex
Incin rilla hands are the fake out users
molten oasis
and then raging bolt is often used over hands for 1, being bulkier
2, better mu's and not affected by intimidate
and i mean beter natural bulk, hands has ass special defense
bolt is basically 125/90/90
dull ibex
So wake Whim flutter yu incin farig
dull ibex
Wdym bolt or wake?
molten oasis
because snarl, and at that point i dont see any reason to have fari
you have incin, you (might) have bolt
dull ibex
A resetter on such a hard tw ho team is not negotiable
dull ibex
I don't care
molten oasis
the average ho tw team also does not have a way to reset tr and just plays through it
dull ibex
I do
dull ibex
No room for it
molten oasis
what?
dull ibex
I'm not ditching wake or farig
molten oasis
bolt is a better mon but whatever, team is good enough
dull ibex
I should fix my garbage incin spread
molten oasis
here
Vesta (Incineroar) (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 156 Def / 68 SpD / 28 Spe
Impish Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
- Fake Out
- Parting Shot
repalce wisp with knock off
dull ibex
Yeah I know the better spreads, I'm just lazy and low on resources
molten oasis
ok
molten oasis
whims is fine
dull ibex
But I love whimsicott with all my heart
molten oasis
idt you really need torn
you want whims to try and prevent sun
also, you can run torkoal over fari and you get a tr answer
as an option
dull ibex
Whim to prevent sun?
dull ibex
Oh yeah sure
bold geode
I'm not a dlc haver 😔
Fix that asap bruh lmao
dull ibex
Fix that asap bruh lmao
I'm not buying dlc
molten oasis
why
dull ibex
That's 35 dollars I could spend elsewhere
bold geode
Wake Whim Mane Entei Hands Farig
Also are you copying me sir lol
dull ibex
Also are you copying me sir lol
This is your old team with my mons
Had the idea to update the team
molten oasis
so youre gonna go spend $35 elsewhere but youre also TOO lazy to fix your spreads and spend the time to get what you need
bold geode
?
What you mean
That's the 6 I used lol
molten oasis
its not that bad
dull ibex
?
What you mean
That's the 6 I used lol
Yeah its your team
molten oasis
i dont see how that isnt easier
dull ibex
With my in game mons
bold geode
Lmao
dull ibex
so youre gonna go spend $35 elsewhere but youre also TOO lazy to fix your spread...
When im not sure if I'll play more then casually yes.
bold geode
Tbf, if you had Harc, you could use that
It's what I considered before Entei
bold geode
Well there you go
That's an Entei replacement if you need one lol
dull ibex
I'll update spreads and fix stuff if I get super involved again
It's not worth the grind if I boot to ladder for 10 minutes
bold geode
I'll update spreads and fix stuff if I get super involved again
Meanwhile I just spent an hour writing down notes on a legitimate physical notepad to try and figure out my best lines into a singular MU
dull ibex
Yeahhhh
molten oasis
cuz youre invested
dull ibex
What do you think about fake out users monke should I stick to hands
Rilla is also an option
bold geode
Incin kinda better, but here I don't think Hands is awful or hell yeah Rilla could be good
Could you get your hands on an Ogerpon?
dull ibex
Which
bold geode
Hearthflame
molten oasis
yea hearthflame would be solid
dull ibex
If my wellspring set also works for hearthflame lmaoooo
bold geode
Add Grass spam to your shit with Rilla
dull ibex
An extra ogerpon? Probably not
bold geode
If my wellspring set also works for hearthflame lmaoooo
With Ogerpon Hearthflame, you can literally just go max max
molten oasis
can you get the mask?
molten oasis
switch the mask then
dull ibex
Right but my ogerpon isn't max max lmao
bold geode
Like it's a change from Wellspring, but it's not a bad change
dull ibex
Ogerpon-Wellspring (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Level: 50
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 180 HP / 156 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ivy Cudgel
- Follow Me
- Spiky Shield
- Horn Leech
bold geode
Then again, yeah no reset mochi's
Tbf I haven't really had too much luck with reset mochi's even with DLC
molten oasis
honestly thats probably okay youd just need to alocate some evs from hp or attack
bold geode
Ogerpon-Wellspring (F) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Water Absorb
Level: 50
T...
See with Hearthflame, you'd want Grassy Glide if paired with Rilla
dull ibex
Do the evs hurt heartflame alot here?
molten oasis
you generally need to add more speed into it
dull ibex
I'd prefer to keep that spread
molten oasis
because of lando i
bold geode
Cuz like
If it ain't tera'd
Grassy Glide from Ogerpon ignores Armor Tail
dull ibex
Oh right 188 speed
molten oasis
yea
dull ibex
Tbh I like the idea of harc
bold geode
Not bad
Intimidate
Sun helps the Water weakness, even if it ain't by much lmao
molten oasis
what even is the spread
molten oasis
k
molten oasis
ok
dull ibex
My spreads are outdated and not worth trying to smash onto a team
knotty mirage
Can booster energy attack gouging fire work or should i just stay with speed ?
molten oasis
Can booster energy attack gouging fire work or should i just stay with speed ?
is it a howl set
if its a howl set keep it speed
knotty mirage
Actually yeah it is the howl set but i'm just thinking of using other set maybe if there one with booster energy attack and invest more on the bulk
charred saddle
i did a mix of speed and atk + bulk
not a max speed booster, did some investment on atk to hit some ohko with crash
lemme check if i still have the set
Gouging Fire @ Clear Amulet
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 84 HP / 196 Atk / 4 Def / 108 SpD / 116 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Burning Bulwark
- Dragon Dance
- Stomping Tantrum
- Heat Crash
molten oasis
thats how you troll someone on cts
lead wellspring and gouging fire
then follow me dragon dance
charred saddle
Gouging Fire @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 196 HP / 84 Atk / 4 Def / 44 SpD / 180 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Heat Crash
- Breaking Swipe
- Howl
- Burning Bulwark
charred saddle
lead wellspring and gouging fire
thats my first Gf team idea
well the shit thing with this set is
molten oasis
idt ddance gouging fire is very good
mighty stump
Gouging Fire @ Clear Amulet
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: G...
Imo you definitely have to run Blitz
charred saddle
Imo you definitely have to run Blitz
oh ye ye it was changed to blitz back then, i was contemplating on crash or blitz
i initially chose crash since i dont want the recoil as i already spent a turn to set up
but then again theres quite a lot of heavy stuff so its not always 120 bp
molten oasis
yea
acoustic cloak
oh ye ye it was changed to blitz back then, i was contemplating on crash or blit...
Do the calcs line up? If you can get some KOs with Blitz, it may be worth it.
molten oasis
kingambit
mighty stump
And honestly you probably still need max speed
Booster Spe Gougings will still outspeed you
and so will Urshifu iirc
charred saddle
yeah thats why i said mirror Mu is bad
oh nvm it doesnt get sent hahah
ye, so mirror Gf usually have max speed booster which is annoying and so i kinda dropped the idea of mixed bulk and atk
molten oasis
metagross ig
charred saddle
and so will Urshifu iirc
i do still outspeed ursh
molten oasis
im thinking of mons flare blitz matter for
acoustic cloak
Honestly, if you invest in enough bulk to survive some common revenge attempts, recoil is very manageable, and Blitz is a lot of extra power.
knotty mirage
idt ddance gouging fire is very good
Is the ddance set the one that use loaded dice and scale shot ?
molten oasis
tf
charred saddle
molten oasis
no lmao
knotty mirage
I mean i do use that kind of set for bss
charred saddle
dnite scaleshot was a thing since jamesbaek feature it in yt
knotty mirage
Def will not work very well on double
molten oasis
yea, it hates wisp and primarina lmao
acoustic cloak
dnite scaleshot was a thing since jamesbaek feature it in yt
Yeah, whenever a YouTuber does something, everyone will copy them.
Even if the copycats have no clue what they're doing.
molten oasis
man i love getting walled by flutter
charred saddle
https://pokepast.es/4d86085c41eb9f21
lmk if theres any inputs or anything
what do you think about the new recipe chef? 
@mighty stump
molten oasis
did you fix the speed ivs?
acoustic cloak
man i love getting walled by flutter
55 HP, 55 Defense. How is it walling?
molten oasis
ah, fair
charred saddle
am going to eat first rn
molten oasis
55 HP, 55 Defense. How is it walling?
espeed and scale shot cant hit it
charred saddle
molten oasis
idk what other moves it runs
acoustic cloak
Oh, you mean with Dragonite.
molten oasis
yes with dnite
timber falcon
oooo metagross team
molten oasis
that isnt tera normal explosion
acoustic cloak
Does Dragonite get Iron Head?
molten oasis
yea but it doesnt run it that often
mighty stump
BP has solo STAB feels so eh
acoustic cloak
Assault Vest and Multiscale can probably tank Mane and KO with Iron Head.
timber falcon
oh yeah and palafin 5 failed miserably, so i went back to 4 and upgraded it, any thoughts? https://pokepast.es/1caa22d7c4bbeb15
molten oasis
Assault Vest and Multiscale can probably tank Mane and KO with Iron Head.
youd need 2
its not stab so it does less
mighty stump
Iron Head doesn't OHKO certain variants and without Inner Focus you're just open to Intimidate
molten oasis
heatran still?
mighty stump
oh yeah and palafin 5 failed miserably, so i went back to 4 and upgraded it, any...
Still no Intim
molten oasis
yk before i continue, what feels good and bad about this
incin looks better over heatran
timber falcon
Still no Intim
oh yeah
molten oasis
max special attack bolt
timber falcon
yk what ima just replace heatran with incin
molten oasis
im not even gonna do that fiasco again im good
timber falcon
max special attack bolt
oh is bolt not supposed to run that?
acoustic cloak
Incineroar just fits on every team. No reason not to use it!
molten oasis
imo you want bulk
acoustic cloak
I agree that it would be better than Heatran for that team.
molten oasis
and then just dump the remaining evs into special attack
as you still hit very hard otherwise
also, tera fairy
timber falcon
imo you want bulk
how much though
molten oasis
116/92 for pao icicle crash
timber falcon
oh
acoustic cloak
Yeah, Pao is the big one.
acoustic cloak
If you can survive Pao, you'll do well against most of your big checks.
molten oasis
youre also eweb
timber falcon
mhm
molten oasis
and tclap, i feel like av would be better on bolt at that point
i think bolt pretty much always wants tbolt tclap and draco unless its calm mind
timber falcon
so then change up rilla?
acoustic cloak
I've seen a lot of Miracle Seeds recently, but Sitrus Berry is always reliable.
timber falcon
bolt doesnt usually run eweb/snarl
tbh idk why im running eweb
timber falcon
btw how much speed does bolt want?
acoustic cloak
It doesn't need too much more.
molten oasis
you'll take all of those evs out of special attack btw
timber falcon
Ok so spdef says the same?
molten oasis
Stormclaw (Raging Bolt) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 116 HP / 92 Def / 124 SpA / 100 SpD / 76 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 20 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Thunderclap
- Draco Meteor
- Snarl
timber falcon
Stormclaw (Raging Bolt) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
T...
Yeah I’ll just use this
molten oasis
you live, everything except specs tera fairy moonblast
because flutter is a real pokemon
and that damage is apprently "ok"
timber falcon
Hmm would amoongus be enough in the team to give flutter some trouble?
molten oasis
palafin handles it fine
timber falcon
Oh yeah true
timber falcon
Btw it’s gonna be goggles incin right?
molten oasis
Vesta (Incineroar) (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 156 Def / 68 SpD / 28 Spe
Impish Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
- Fake Out
- Parting Shot
knock off over wisp
timber falcon
Ok
fleet tusk
is that a joke
acoustic cloak
204 Def Flutter Mane OP.
molten oasis
theres that
and theres the usual bulky flutter (i think)
Flutter Mane @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 212 HP / 132 Def / 36 SpA / 4 SpD / 124 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
- Icy Wind
still hits 188 speed
acoustic cloak
Which is crazy to me, given how some other Pokemon with better defenses are said to be trash at defending.
This is why I like defensive investment, even on squishies.
molten oasis
because flutter has the speed special defense and attack that it doesnt need to invest much there and ivnest more in its defenses
acoustic cloak
They can take a surprising amount of hits.
molten oasis
atp i dont consider flutte frail
timber falcon
204 Def Flutter Mane OP.
That’s a lot of def, what abt hp
limpid trench
Can anyone help me w a team I made rq
molten oasis
because of how fucking stupid its stats aer
acoustic cloak
That’s a lot of def, what abt hp
116 HP is part of it.
molten oasis
Can anyone help me w a team I made rq
paste?
timber falcon
Btw what evs would it take for a flutter to comfortably tank surging
acoustic cloak
because of how fucking stupid its stats aer
55/55/135 is okay bulk actually.
molten oasis
Flutter Mane @ Booster Energy
Ability: Protosynthesis
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fairy...
this
timber falcon
Ok ty
molten oasis
55/55/135 is okay bulk actually.
yea, that 135 allows it to use evs in defense
which on paper, it shouldnt be able to do
but it does
and then still hits hard and outspeeds your entire team
acoustic cloak
It reminds me a bit of Chandelure back in Gen 5.
Which did pretty much the same thing.
dapper crag
SableyeBot version 4.26.2
molten oasis
hp dump ig
acoustic cloak
Chandelure basically just ran a Choice Scarf in Gen 5 and then dunked on teams the way Mane does.
molten oasis
ah
acoustic cloak
60/90/90 for that power and speed tier was crazy.
acoustic cloak
Though it was never released, Gen 5 Chandelure had Shadow Tag as its hidden ability.
They had to change it for Gen 6.
molten oasis
that would have been funny
acoustic cloak
that would have been funny
Smogon opened a hypothetical ladder featuring such hidden abilities.
molten oasis
nowadays idk how bad that would have been
acoustic cloak
Chandelure was banned.
molten oasis
shadow tag is a strong ability for a reason lol
acoustic cloak
Oh, it would still be bad today.
molten oasis
oh right, mega gengar was that
acoustic cloak
Chandelure could just pick a target and guarantee the KO.
molten oasis
nvm lol
acoustic cloak
Or run a Calm Mind set and just set up and then sweep.
It was the Mega Gengar before Mega Gengar.
molten oasis
and hes coming back, yippee
acoustic cloak
Only even more ludicrous because its movepool allowed almost perfect coverage.
This makes me want to run a Chandelure/Flutter Mane core.
Both can take a hit, both have ridiculous special attack, and both can use a single item to become absurdly good.
limpid trench
How does this team look?
It’s kinda some favorites idk if they’ll work together tho
molten oasis
we need moves and items as well
mighty stump
What format is this for?
molten oasis
if only i sent that, a second later lol
limpid trench
What format is this for?
Ig for battling friends until I’m better tbh
molten oasis
doubles or singles
acoustic cloak
Most people do singles, so we can assume that.
mighty stump
Most people do singles, so we can assume that.
No we can't.
limpid trench
I say singles
molten oasis
its mostly vgc here, with occasional singles and smogon players
acoustic cloak
For battles with his friends? Likely they will do singles if it is the casual stuff.
mighty stump
Well Singles wise, Smogon formats or BSS?
Cause the resources you'll want differ depending
mighty stump
For battles with his friends? Likely they will do singles if it is the casual st...
It's still useful to just get confirmation and check.
0 point in advising under an assumption
molten oasis
you never know
limpid trench
No clue on what each format means but Ik about like huddle abilities n what each Pokémon does well I’ll update it and send again
molten oasis
mk
mighty stump
Mm
acoustic cloak
No clue on what each format means but Ik about like huddle abilities n what each...
Smogon has different rules than the BSS does.
So that's why he was asking, I think.
limpid trench
Smogon has different rules than the BSS does.
What’s the difference
Are any of these guys banned
molten oasis
smogon bans things
mighty stump
Well if it's BSS stuff, the main resource you'll be able to see for builds/sets would be Pikalytics.com, otherwise you can go to Smogon to check out their sets for the format.
molten oasis
and they have their own tiers
mighty stump
Battle Stadium Singles (BSS) is the in-game Singles format
It uses a bring-6-pick-3 with standard rules
and is played at level 50
molten oasis
you can use everthing legal, no box art legendaries
mighty stump
Standard rules being no duplicate items/no duplicate pokemon/all pokemon in the current ruleset is allowed depending on the Regulation
molten oasis
mewtwo, zacian, zekrom, etc
mighty stump
Smogon OU is 6v6 with no item clause, played at level 100, and have their own balancing system/banlist
molten oasis
and no mythicals
limpid trench
Oooo I see ig it would be BSS that’s all I’ve played so far
molten oasis
in bss
limpid trench
I’d get folded in OU😂
mighty stump
https://www.pikalytics.com/pokedex/homebss This should give you a lot of information on the item/teammates/moves used for Pokemon in BSS. Keep in mind that Competitive tends to punish simply using favourites since majority of players will be playing according to the metgame
limpid trench
https://www.pikalytics.com/pokedex/homebss This should give you a lot of informa...
Tysm bro
molten oasis
im curious
mighty stump
So i'd just be aware of your team's performance if you choose to use certain pokemon under preference rather than meta
molten oasis
no surprise flutter is #1 lol
mighty stump
As in, have realistic expectations
limpid trench
That makes sense
molten oasis
prima is 12th
mighty stump
Doesn't mean you can't win/you need meta to win
Just that it's more difficult depending
acoustic cloak
Yeah. You need to have a plan with them.
mighty stump
And sometimes that makes it harder to learn the game
acoustic cloak
I run a Hisuian Electrode, for example, but it has a specific purpose.
Even if it isn't a meta pick.
limpid trench
Dammmm I see so everything will hav a purpose n I can’t just throw something in because it can throw stuff outta whack
mighty stump
Essentially, you want to have an awareness and some degree of justification of why that team member is there and what it does:
- Does it fix certain matchups?
- Provides necessary offensive/defensive coverage?
- Does it' have a unique use/niche that only it can provide?
As an example
autumn vault
https://pokepast.es/97c06c2e3392d662 Opinions? Its a terapagos team
mighty stump
Pick one or the other from MB and CM
autumn vault
Guess i go Meteor Beam, good against ice which my team dislikes
also terapagos' moveset is Bonkers
Kind of doubting sub but my brain cant think of anything else, plus sub helps survivability. Either sub or rock polish and i will go Sub
mighty stump
If you're only runing Tera Starstorm you'll get walled by Wide Guard
Just run coverage.
The strength from Terapagos is that you punish Tera, so you need something to incentivize Tera
crimson flume
Thanks for your help guys.
From rank 27.3K to Rank 10.4K
Holy sheet. 
@molten oasis I fought some people who lead urshifu, so I did what you did to me to them. Thunderclap ohko haha.
I did not expect to rank this high.
@autumn vault the defense coverage sheet helped. Haha.
God. Raging bolt is so good. I love this mon.
Raging bolt and Iron Crown are officially my favorite mons in comp.
This is the first season I stuck to one team. Last season I kept on swapping mons in my team cause I had no idea who I wanted to use lol.
timber falcon
Rillaboom @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Grassy Surge
Level: 50
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 164 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 76 SpD / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Grassy Glide
- Fake Out
- Protect is this rilla set aight?
item is sitrus cause vest is being used and since im using palafin i want bulk over straight damage so i didint use seed/plate
mighty stump
What's vest on
If you wanted bulk i'd start with investments on that end rather than going Adamant with max ATK investment
polar canyon
I don't know how to run wake without life orb
timber falcon
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2090944991 omg the team actually works 
timber falcon
What's vest on
bolt
timber falcon
If you wanted bulk i'd start with investments on that end rather than going Adam...
know anywhere i could get sets?
id still like a powerful wood hammer though
mighty stump
What SpA attack were you trying to live?
timber falcon
also i went taunt > protect cause the team struggked with stall and iron def
timber falcon
What SpA attack were you trying to live?
moonblast from specs flutter
mighty stump
Tera or non Tera?
timber falcon
tera
mighty stump
Well your current Rillaboom investment never lives that
mighty stump
Wait
Rillaboom @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Overgrow
Level: 50
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 156 HP / 36 Atk / 44 Def / 252 SpD / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Grassy Glide
- Fake Out
- Protect
Wood Hammer always kills Flutter Mane even for the bulkier variants.
36+ Atk Rillaboom Wood Hammer vs. 212 HP / 132 Def Flutter Mane in Grassy Terrain: 159-187 (101.2 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
And you live the most offensive variants of Flutter on 1
timber falcon
Rillaboom @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Overgrow
Level: 50
Tera Type: Grass
EV...
thanks for the set 
gentle cragBOT
thanks for the set <:GengHeart:674147120634396672>
otot8953 has given 1 Gen Rep to woodtofu
polar canyon
AV/Covert Cloak
Really? A lot of people clowned on me when I brought up av
mighty stump
Just don't forget to fix Tera
polar canyon
Regulars here thought it was pointless
timber falcon
Just don't forget to fix Tera
btw can taunt work over prot?
mighty stump
Really? A lot of people clowned on me when I brought up av
I personally think a lot of it's damage output sometimes feels meh without LO but it's not like AV is unviable.
mighty stump
Regulars here thought it was pointless
A lot of regulars here have problems with black/white thinking
timber falcon
i second that
polar canyon
Why have I never used strength sap on jumpluff before
mighty stump
AV is fine
timber falcon
Why have I never used strength sap on jumpluff before
my reg E masterclass pokemon 
polar canyon
My reg D one
timber falcon
ah yes the memories of using whatever i saw fit cause i didnt know meta
polar canyon
I just thought eject pack torkoal + jumpluff was fun
I was using specs spatk boost tera fairy mane
timber falcon
I just thought eject pack torkoal + jumpluff was fun
oh i ran frickin AV flutter in sun with lilgant torkaol, raoring and jumpluff.
polar canyon
I think that was like viable in the meta
It was kind of a half meme team
It was my best performing reg c team actually
A Greedent team
polar canyon
Belly drum greedent in trick room
timber falcon
oh so bullying
timber falcon
was iron hands not viable?
timber falcon
oh ok
timber falcon
i personally rly like doving back to mons that could do well
polar canyon
Jumpluff
timber falcon
https://pokepast.es/3802d3902b9fca4c also this is the palafin team i think has what it takes
polar canyon
Yeah
mighty stump
Well gl ig
polar canyon
Well gl ig
To the palafin team?
timber falcon
It was kinda unstoppable with the instruct oranguru next to it
youve jinxed me
timber falcon
well they failed to stop me from taunting
polar canyon
Herb might be on oranguru
polar canyon
Covert ig?
timber falcon
maybe
rocky helm oranaguru
sitrus giraff
also forgot to change tera AND ability on rilla
polar canyon
Just had a guy in chat tell me I should be more respectful after clowning on him in chat when I won
solid frigate
Just had a guy in chat tell me I should be more respectful after clowning on him...
who-
polar canyon
When he started calling me cheesy when he crit me at the start with -1 ogerpon
With wood hammer
solid frigate
damn-
polar canyon
Not even the 1/8 crit Ivy cudgel
I just think it's funny
I like to mention funny chat interactions like this
solid frigate
if its Ivy Cudgel then it make sense
But wood Hamer tho
is Hearhflame or Wellspring
polar canyon
Hearthflame
solid frigate
ok that luck-
polar canyon
Also he used rain dance torn and hit my jumpluff with ivy cudgel in the same turn
And his team was psyspam
But I'm cheesy apparently because I have a jumpluff
solid frigate
Also he used rain dance torn and hit my jumpluff with ivy cudgel in the same tur...
i mean Jumpluff should survive cuz well 4x resist
solid frigate
Fire type ivy cudgel
nvm i thought wood hammer
solid frigate
But I'm cheesy apparently because I have a jumpluff
i rather use the term Gimmicky rather than Cheesey
solid frigate
yea
solid frigate
Lando?
polar canyon
Jumpluff
solid frigate
oh i forgot-
crimson flume
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2090944991 omg the team actua...
Literally denied that ogerpon some health lol
timber falcon
Literally denied that ogerpon some health lol
saw swords dance and went full kill lmao
crimson flume
saw swords dance and went full kill lmao
Can't abuse the buffed damage when you have 0 hp XD
timber falcon
Can't abuse the buffed damage when you have 0 hp XD
dead mons dont damage 🗣️
solid frigate
lol
crimson flume
dead mons dont damage 🗣️
Classic Omae wa mou shindeiru moment.
When someone decides to lead with urshifu and I also lead with my bolt
Only choice for the urshifu is to literally switch out, unless it has detect.
solid frigate
i just -3 thhe Chien Pao-
timber falcon
When someone decides to lead with urshifu and I also lead with my bolt
bolt the tornshifu stopa
crimson flume
If urshifu doesn't have detect and doesn't wanna switch out, thunderclap is an OHKO.
Most of the time I learned how to fight, was learning from the matches I lost xD
And replicating what the opponents do lol.
That's also how I won a chess tournament.
Every time you lose a friendly game, there's a discussion on what you can do better.
dapper crag
I just got to master ball rank 2 days ago with no ev training and 1 hyper trained urshfou
crimson flume
So next time, you can apply that.
crimson flume
I just got to master ball rank 2 days ago with no ev training and 1 hyper traine...
WAT
No EV training? Rank.... Nani?
dapper crag
I didn't even know what that was
crimson flume
I thought EV training was the bare minimum even in beginner tier.
mighty stump
I mean
mighty stump
I thought EV training was the bare minimum even in beginner tier.
The bare minimum is just knowing how to play
dapper crag
All I had was an urshifu that I hyper trained 2 years ago kn swsh
crimson flume
The bare minimum is just knowing how to play
You mean you can win games in rank even without ev training?
mighty stump
Master Ball, once you figure out how to play, is pretty much the welcome mat
dapper crag
Regidrago is underrated
crimson flume
Regidrago is underrated
Ah, yeah. A. Galkin's team in the charlotte regionals.
dapper crag
Tailwind max hp dragon energy is goof
crimson flume
Tried it, not fond of the playstyle.
mighty stump
Essentially anything sub top 1k Mball/Top 500 Reg F ladder (and even both being bo1 CTS is still debatable) is like
Eh
dull ibex
I thought EV training was the bare minimum even in beginner tier.
ev training is hard enough its not a beginner thing
mighty stump
Well, that's also like, not true. Since you don't need complex spreads for mons to do really well and its 26 vitamins in each stat
dull ibex
tofu do you think the ladder is alot more skilled on average then it was when I was grinding it out?
mighty stump
Juniors can do it
mighty stump
tofu do you think the ladder is alot more skilled on average then it was when I ...
Probably
dull ibex
mhm mhm okay
mighty stump
Overall VGC has elevated in both accessibility and skill
dapper crag
Where can I trade pokemon on let's go
crimson flume
ev training is hard enough its not a beginner thing
Beginner tier is the name of the first rank in switch doubles.
mighty stump
That's just naming
crimson flume
Yea
dull ibex
I would argue half of those teams arent ev trained lmao
dapper crag
Where can I trade pokemon on let's go
.
crimson flume
Tbh, VGC has a high skill floor. I even lost games in beginner tier...
dapper crag
Can't find one
mighty stump
Then ask in the appropriate channel like #server_questions
mighty stump
Or just use the general channels.
crimson flume
might be a patreon thing
Patreon thing haha.
I also tried wolfe's charlotte team. Not a fan of it.
mighty stump
does wolfe have a paste? or is it just a rental
Grasspam?
dull ibex
im not sure if its super begginer friendly
oh right someone asked for my ingame incin spread
crimson flume
A beginner friendly team I started with was
Chien Pao - Dnite
Flutter Mane - Chi Yu
Indeedee-f - Torkoal
crimson flume
That was my team when I was in beginner tier lol
dull ibex
I do not like paonite personally
crimson flume
Pao nite - physical
Flutter - chi - special
Indeedee-f - torkoal - a good introduction on Trick Room.
crimson flume
I do not like paonite personally
Yeah, you also have to find mons you love.
It took me a lot of trial and error to find mons I enjoy playing
Raging bolt and iron crown are my favorites.
They secured me a lot of wins in comp.
And raging bolt is so bulky.
dull ibex
Incineroar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Blaze
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 244 HP / 116 Atk / 44 Def / 20 SpD / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Darkest Lariat
- Fake Out
- U-turn
there you go
its not a good spread lmaooo
crimson flume
Darkest Lariat?
Wait, you're going for the dps incin, not the tank support incin i guess.
dull ibex
obviously not blaze
crimson flume
Shouldn't incin have intimidate....
mighty stump
Incineroar @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 244 HP / 4 Atk / 156 Def / 68 SpD / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Parting Shot
- Flare Blitz
- Knock Off
Incineroar @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 236 HP / 4 Atk / 68 Def / 156 SpD / 44 Spe
Careful Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Parting Shot
- Will-O-Wisp
- Fake Out
One lives SS from Urshifu-Water, the other is for Lando-I
dull ibex
I haven't grinded in months I have none lmao
mighty stump
i'd make H-Arc max speed nowadays
dull ibex
i'd make H-Arc max speed nowadays
oh fr? interesting
timber falcon
https://pokepast.es/fdab95f99ca676bb
why tera grass whim?
dull ibex
why tera grass whim?
🤷 need to change thatr
solid frigate
🤷 need to change thatr
Tera Dark ftw
dull ibex
I should stream ngl
willow vault
I should stream ngl
What you gonna stream?
dull ibex
I was thinking about streaming some ranked
fringe oar
Got a 1 speed iv bloodmoon ursaluna What nature is best to run on it, I was thinking about quiet
next stump
quiet if you're using TR
mighty stump
quiet if you're using TR
Loud if not
mighty stump
Not called Hyper Voice for no reason
solid frigate
if i make 1 Restricted Team with Terapagos as Restricted,I might bring Follow Me Ogerpon
craggy dagger
you prolly should?
solid frigate
consider Miraidon's Everywhere
and Hearthflame Pon Resists Zacian's Stabs
final water Slot maybe Primarina
wip so yeah
candid plover
I'm trying to collect ribbons for my shiny primarina, if I lose a battle in the battle tower in swsh does my rank lower and I have to restart?
solid frigate
I'm trying to collect ribbons for my shiny primarina, if I lose a battle in the ...
that would be very dumb if they take ribbons away from you
craggy dagger
I'm trying to collect ribbons for my shiny primarina, if I lose a battle in the ...
nope
solid frigate
And Tera fsiry bolt
aight
molten oasis
Maybe I’ll find out how to make Primarina work
devout wing
I'm trying to decide between Iron Head or Zen Headbutt for my Baxcalibur. It's Loaded Dice and running Icicle Spear and Stomping Tantrum with Steel tera. (Iron Head covers Ice for Kommo-o and Fairy for Both Kommo-o & Bax, and Zen Headbutt covers Bax's Fighting and Primarina's Poison.)
molten oasis
It’s bad inti things like groudon tho
solid frigate
thank god i do have Rapid Strike Urshifu so i dont need to get one from someone
craggy dagger
gapdos guy xD
i take it that drago has fully embraced gapdos?
solid frigate
I'm trying to decide between Iron Head or Zen Headbutt for my Baxcalibur. It's L...
Dragon Dance,Ice Shard,Glaive Rush,Protect.
solid frigate
gapdos guy xD
i take it that drago has fully embraced gapdos?
Me and Crephace actually mentioned that first lol
craggy dagger
:0
devout wing
Dragon Dance,Ice Shard,Glaive Rush,Protect.
Unlike most competitive players, I don't like to run high risk high reward moves, especially not Glaive Rush. I also like coverage, but I could just run D-Dance instead of either
solid frigate
Unlike most competitive players, I don't like to run high risk high reward moves...
no the thing is
chrome knot
😵💫
solid frigate
Its alright to use Glavie Rush cuz you just use Ice Shard anyways
devout wing
Its alright to use Glavie Rush cuz you just use Ice Shard anyways
True, but doesn't Glaive Rush take effect immediately so on the low chance you outspeed you get devestated in the same turn?
solid frigate
True, but doesn't Glaive Rush take effect immediately so on the low chance you o...
it for does not matter if you use a Priority
craggy dagger
if you outspeed yes but bax will usually have snow up for buffed defenses
acoustic cloak
True, but doesn't Glaive Rush take effect immediately so on the low chance you o...
Ice Shard has priority, so very little is striking you during the vulnerable turn anyway.
solid frigate
if you outspeed yes but bax will usually have snow up for buffed defenses
yeah thats a Monster
acoustic cloak
"The effect ends if a different move is used."
devout wing
Also, with the Ice Shard i'm still taking enough damage to likely ohko for minimal Ice Shard damage. But I have been looking for more priority.
solid frigate
Also, with the Ice Shard i'm still taking enough damage to likely ohko for minim...
Dragon flippin Dance
acoustic cloak
So Glaive Rush's downside is eliminated entirely when you use Ice Shard.
craggy dagger
*"The effect ends if a different move is used."*
no no i think they're saying that if bax uses glaive rush, and its the first thing to move, then the vulnerability will still be up
dapper crag
SableyeBot version 4.26.2
craggy dagger
next turn ah
solid frigate
and Baxcalibur's Attack Stat is just BS
dapper crag
SableyeBot version 4.26.2
craggy dagger
145..
Thats higher then i remember xD
solid frigate
THATS LANDORUS THERIAN'S ATTACK STAT
devout wing
Actually, I could run Glaive Rush on Bax and then just have Ogerpon Follow Me on the turn i'm supposed to take a massive hit, and then Baxcalibur is safe because the effect is gone.
acoustic cloak
There's a reason Smogon cried and banned Baxcalibur.
solid frigate
There's a reason Smogon cried and banned Baxcalibur.
Smogon:Ahhh must be banned!
VGC:Fuck it We Ball
acoustic cloak
It's like, Snow's Tyranitar.
solid frigate
It's like, Snow's Tyranitar.
but way better in offense
devout wing
But then there's the question of, do I run Glaive Rush for titanic damage, or Breaking Swipe for support and with it's huge attack, will do decent damage anyway?
solid frigate
But then there's the question of, do I run Glaive Rush for titanic damage, or Br...
Glavie Rush.
acoustic cloak
Depends on the team, but usually, Glaive Rush is better.
devout wing
Depends on the team, but usually, Glaive Rush is better.
atm I'm rebuilding my team, I only have Kommo-o and Primarina atm and thinking about Mismagius
acoustic cloak
Breaking Swipe is fine, but it can serve as bait for Defiant and Competitive Pokemon.
solid frigate
atm I'm rebuilding my team, I only have Kommo-o and Primarina atm and thinking a...
Drop Kommo-o,its not worth it-
mighty stump
You’re never going to be using Breaking Swipe on a slow mon if it isn’t either a dedicated support or a speedy mon
molten oasis
gapdos guy xD
i take it that drago has fully embraced gapdos?
Yes
acoustic cloak
Glaive Rush is the way to go for like, 99% of Baxcalibur builds.
mighty stump
atm I'm rebuilding my team, I only have Kommo-o and Primarina atm and thinking a...
With two preferential picks like those, there isn’t really much room, or any room, for any other preferential picks
solid frigate
Oh we’re discussing Bax
yeah
devout wing
Drop Kommo-o,its not worth it-
Kommo-o has 125 defense, great for STAB Body Press. Breaking Swipe for damage and support, as well as tera STAB Iron Head. Plus, good bulk from the 125 defense, and 105 Sp. defense. Plus, I like Kommo-o
craggy dagger
yeah talking about glaive and bax
molten oasis
I like swords dance glaive rush ice shard
solid frigate
Oh we’re discussing Bax
oh yeah the tornadus-
mighty stump
Kommo-o has 125 defense, great for STAB Body Press. Breaking Swipe for damage an...
You wouldn’t be running BSwipe on Kommo-O either
molten oasis
Glaive rush has the double effect after it attacks
solid frigate
sorry i overslept for the power nap
mighty stump
Don’t have the slots for it
molten oasis
So imo yiu go slow with Bax
mighty stump
Most successful Kommo-O team most recently would be the spanish 6
That’s probably the better template to run Kommo
solid frigate
also Kommo-o gets fucked up by Flutter Mane
molten oasis
So it goes last, and then you have ice shard so you move before the damage done ti Bax is doubled
Without Tera
acoustic cloak
Yeah, for VGC, you need to assume Flutter Mane is present.
It does warp team building.
devout wing
You wouldn’t be running BSwipe on Kommo-O either
I know, but even with it's defenses, it's still taking a decent chunk of damage in a turn if it gets doubled onto. Breaking Swipe hits both mons, and the only other thing that does that is Primarina's hyper voice. And it reduces the damage any physical mon does
solid frigate
Yeah, for VGC, you need to assume Flutter Mane is present.
yeah
molten oasis
Flutter invalidates a chunk of the meta ut sucks
solid frigate
thats why i love Archaludon
molten oasis
As in the fairies
Offensive fairies
Like, you want offensive fairy type just as flutter
mighty stump
I know, but even with it's defenses, it's still taking a decent chunk of damage ...
Yeah but its not strong Spread. You’re better off doing Iron Defense to actually have more impact with Body Press.
molten oasis
You want speed control just add flutter
mighty stump
There is a reason no one runs it that way
molten oasis
With icy wind
solid frigate
As in the fairies
Yeah Flutter Mane is just too good and i swear Hydreigon and Kommo-o is fucked by them,ahhh i missed the time Hydreigon is a good mon in Series 1
devout wing
And for Flutter Mane. Hmm. I'll need to think about that, since I try to find the perfect mon to use, but it has to be a mon I like. Since most Mane's run Dazzling Gleam, follow me Ogerpon-Hearth doesnt work well
molten oasis
Hearth kicks flutters ass
solid frigate
And for Flutter Mane. Hmm. I'll need to think about that, since I try to find th...
Dazzling Gleam,Moonblast,Shadow Ball and Protect
devout wing
Yeah but its not strong Spread. You’re better off doing Iron Defense to actually...
I did at some point, but dropped it since it was in place of Protect at the time.
mighty stump
Kommo-o is a Tera Hog anyways. That’s why some variants run Bulletproof to essentially nearly wall Flutter Mane.
While others opt for Overcoat
devout wing
I run Bulletproof. Great for immunity to Pollen Puff hydrapple, Shadow Ball gholdengo, etc.
mighty stump
…Hydrapple?
devout wing
yes.
solid frigate
…Hydrapple?
i can sense Drago seeing this-
mighty stump
Odd mention, but alright
devout wing
Hydrapple has massive Sp. Atk, with an amazing signature move. Syrup Bomb and Fickle Beam are both great, and with Pollen Puff for damage and support, and Grassy Glide for prio on Grassy Terrain, it can wall some teams
mighty stump
That’s
devout wing
Plus when built correctly (even though VGC sets level 50) a level 100 Hydrapple can have 400 HP
acoustic cloak
I can't say I've had any trouble dealing with Hydrapple.
mighty stump
Cause it’s not good
devout wing
It hasn't risen because of Flutter Mane outspeeding and dealing massive damage
mighty stump
It has it’s moments but it’s not good. Beyond just blaming Flutter Mane
acoustic cloak
It hasn't risen because of Flutter Mane outspeeding and dealing massive damage
It has a lot of other problems.
solid frigate
Plus when built correctly (even though VGC sets level 50) a level 100 Hydrapple ...
also the typing its just not good
mighty stump
as a Yawnbot on Balance in place of Amoonguss, its alright
acoustic cloak
Grass/Dragon is fine on the surface, but it has a lot of cracks.
mighty stump
It’ll satisfy you if you want to run Hydrapple but not if you’re planning on climbing
mighty stump
regardless, bulletproof beats pollen puff.
I mean you resist Pollen Puff anyways cause of the Fighting-type anyways…
It’s not even STAB
devout wing
i dont intend to run Hydrapple,
I follow Karen's quote and try to use Pokemon I like, and Hydrapple is mid.
dapper crag
SableyeBot version 4.26.2
acoustic cloak
The teams I run into that try to use Hydrapple a lot just make me use my Cryogonal to effectively nullify it.
mighty stump
Karen’s quote is used for a variety of people who do not also check their expectations in accordance to reality
acoustic cloak
She's 100% right, but people misconstrue what she says.
solid frigate
the quote is also very flawed but still meaningful
acoustic cloak
Karen speaks to using favorites, but mentions skill. If you look at a lot of players who do use their favorites, they build their teams with them in mind.
mighty stump
Emphasis on “try to win”
acoustic cloak
That doesn't mean they abandon trends.
devout wing
Me personally, I just like to use Pokemon that I find interesting and cool. But they do have to be good to make it onto my team. I'm not gonna use a not fully evolved Pokemon, or a Pokemon with awful stats like Grapploct
solid frigate
then why are you playing VGC-
mighty stump
People simply try to jump to the good part of playing favourites without realising they require a lot of effort and foundational skillsets to actually execute such gameplans
Competitive is just not the environment where you get to skip to the good part to do that
molten oasis
If you want to use Hydrapple, it’ll be a Tera hog and it’ll not hit super hard
solid frigate
then why are you playing VGC-
i'm sorry i;m being rude
acoustic cloak
Like, I run Electrode and Cryogonal on teams. Neither are great, but I like them. I have built them into teams that give them a role to fill.
devout wing
Using Pokemon I like and finding ways to make it good is very fun, because I like some very underrated Pokemon.
dull ibex
but then why play ranked
if its about playing favorites in pvp genuinely why not play casuals
mighty stump
I’m just saying that limits the amount of realistic help and room you get to play that actually showcases your pick.
It’s two different things when you slap a favourite + the top 5 used Pokemon vs actually having justification for those mons i.e. niches
devout wing
if its about playing favorites in pvp genuinely why not play casuals
I mostly do play casuals, but I want to keep VGC in mind because I've only ever made it to Great Ball 8 and I want to be able to make it farther
solid frigate
Using Pokemon I like and finding ways to make it good is very fun, because I lik...
heck my favourite Pokemon is Greninja and i abandoned him in Gen 9 due to power Creep
acoustic cloak
@devout wing If you get some time, go check out Wolfey's videos where he uses Weezing, Exeggutor, and Magmar. All three are very niche and kind of poor choices, but he builds teams with them to make them work. It's a great look into the sort of planning and teambuilding you do need to use with your favorites.
dull ibex
I mostly do play casuals, but I want to keep VGC in mind because I've only ever ...
then you can't pick and choose favorites
devout wing
<@1035348435899011142> If you get some time, go check out Wolfey's videos where ...
I've seen two of the three
mighty stump
The sort of planning and teambuilding involves strong understanding of the metagame.
and tempered expectations
dull ibex
didnt wolfey also give up on that
acoustic cloak
^^^
acoustic cloak
didnt wolfey also give up on that
He didn't win the tournaments, but he built a functioning team.
dull ibex
he was using bad mons for a while and gave up because he wants to improve
dull ibex
I love bad content teams they are so fun to watch
mighty stump
Case-in-point Pikachu
acoustic cloak
Not saying it's a bible, but it's a good look into the general mindset and study needed to use those options.
devout wing
The sort of planning and teambuilding involves strong understanding of the metag...
I'd say I understand it pretty well. In a nutshell, Inceneroar is god, Flutter Mane is it's apostle, and Raging Bolt, Gouging Fire, and some others, are lower on the ranks but still there.
mighty stump
I'd say I understand it pretty well. In a nutshell, Inceneroar is god, Flutter M...
Team interactions, common archetypes
It’s more than just listing good pokemon
acoustic cloak
I won't lie and say my Electrode or Cryogonal are good, but I don't expect to win anything more than locals with them either.
dull ibex
I'd say I understand it pretty well. In a nutshell, Inceneroar is god, Flutter M...
this is not exactly how it works
devout wing
Team interactions, common archetypes
I will say, I less understand making teams work together than I do other things, but I try to make good synergy in my teams.
dull ibex
a good example is I dont think incin is good on EVERY team
acoustic cloak
Incineroar is a splash to role compress. Not every team needs it. It can be useful to fill in something you cannot cover, but if your team can fill all of its usual roles, then you don't need it.
solid frigate
a good example is I dont think incin is good on EVERY team
its good on most teams but some team would be hindered
dull ibex
pokemon isnt a shooter like cod where there are objectively better guns
theres a bit of nuance to every mon
mighty stump
Pokemon is just math. Numbers don’t lie
dull ibex
there is some objectivity for sure
like incin invalidating less fake out users
and lesser intim mons lmao
devout wing
I also use good Pokemon, but in strange ways. I used to run Ogerpon-Grass with Ivy Cudgel, Spiky Shield, Follow Me, and Rock Tomb.
dull ibex
okay what is rock tomb doing.
mighty stump
Speed Control.
dull ibex
that is bizarre
mighty stump
Grasspon gets Spe +1 on Tera
devout wing
Covers almost all of it's weaknesses, speed control, and can be helpful against some Pokemon
Rock Tomb covers every weakness except Poison.
dull ibex
I dont think wanting to improve pidgeon holes you into meta but you might want to consider hard meta tbh
mighty stump
Walled by Steel types though
Might as well run Stomping if the Spe control aspect isn’t the big point
devout wing
Walled by Steel types though
That's true, which is why I changed it to Hearthflame, but then dropped Ogerpon as a whole because the Poison weakness on my team is real.
mighty stump
I dont think wanting to improve pidgeon holes you into meta but you might want t...
JPN Shell balancd is so boring
dull ibex
JPN Shell balancd is so boring
what team is that
acoustic cloak
Yeah, it's not the most entertaining team.
dull ibex
that does sound boring,
mighty stump
The nice thingb about Reg F is that there is a ton of variety
The bad thing is there’s almost too much
autumn vault
<@1104069302946103348> the defense coverage sheet helped. Haha.
How did i help?
dull ibex
Tofu do you think wolfe's charolette team is too difficult for me to use atm
autumn vault
oh hey humans
mighty stump
Tofu do you think wolfe's charolette team is too difficult for me to use atm
No
Just Swords Dance and win game
dull ibex
that sounds funny
acoustic cloak
Yeah, set yourself up for Swords Dance and sweep.
crimson flume
How did i help?
Marriland defensive chart, and of course, your EV recommendation for raging bolt. 😄
autumn vault
Marriland defensive chart, and of course, your EV recommendation for raging bolt...
Oh right
crimson flume
I love raging bolt. This mon is so fun to use hahahahahaha.
dull ibex
I do need stream and get coaching though ngl im a little too rusty for my liking lmao
crimson flume
Raging bolt and Iron crown are my favorite mons in comp.
devout wing
Also, can we take a moment to appreciate how Urshifu-R is just flat out better than Urshifu-S? Dark-Fighting IS better defensively, but it's not supposed to be a defense mon. Their signature moves are the same damage when factoring the crits, but Surging Strikes also breaks Substitutes and Sashes, plus it can be boosted my Mythic Water & Rain, but Wicked Blow only gets Dark Glasses boosts
crimson flume
Also, can we take a moment to appreciate how Urshifu-R is just flat out better t...
Yeah. I end up using Urshifu-R more than Urshifu-S lol.
dull ibex
I wish monke was a better teacher (no offense to dollar), he is quite decent and could help me a ton
mighty stump
Also, can we take a moment to appreciate how Urshifu-R is just flat out better t...
Darkshifu got nerfed
devout wing
I made my Kubfu Urshifu-Dark for nostalgia since in my first playthrough of Sword I chose Dark, but then I saw Wolfey's vid on Urshifu which came out right after and then regretted it
dull ibex
isnt darkshifu better atm
mighty stump
Plus Darkshifu dodges all the supposed Watershifu checks
molten oasis
It’s weird
mighty stump
Both have their pros and cons
molten oasis
They do different things
acoustic cloak
isnt darkshifu better atm
Only because everyone currently is bringing Watershifu checks.
molten oasis
Raging bolt
mighty stump
Waterpon isn’t even a good Urshfiu-RS check
acoustic cloak
Once people catch on, it'll likely swing again.
mighty stump
It’s just Bolt
molten oasis
Uturn
mighty stump
People already realised that from Vancouver
molten oasis
It doesn’t want to take close combat
devout wing
I even tried Scarfing my Urshifu-Dark to make it outspeed and ohko with Thunder Punch, but then I get walled by Ground types.
autumn vault
Waterpon isn’t even a good Urshfiu-RS check
That is what i always thought
Close Combat still hurts a lot, bolt can shrug it off and ohko safely or ohko it before it moves
acoustic cloak
Wait, people tried to use Waterpon to check Urshifu-RS?
mighty stump
I even tried Scarfing my Urshifu-Dark to make it outspeed and ohko with Thunder ...
It seems like you’re trying to make certain mons do a lot more than they really can/should be
molten oasis
Wait, people tried to use Waterpon to check Urshifu-RS?
Water absorb
devout wing
Speaking of, i've been thinking about running Swampert.
acoustic cloak
She doesn't have the defensive profile to weather its Fighting STAB.
mighty stump
Wait, people tried to use Waterpon to check Urshifu-RS?
Water Absorb + Redirection forces Urshifu to leave the field if it clicks SS
and most Watershifu’s are Scarfed
acoustic cloak
I suppose that makes sense.
autumn vault
I used to use Salamence for it, it did great against it
acoustic cloak
She's a check at best.
mighty stump
It also means you have to make a call clicking SS in front of it
You can mindgame Follow Me and punish a turn so it’s something
devout wing
It seems like you’re trying to make certain mons do a lot more than they really ...
true, but at the time I didnt have any other checks to Urshifu-Water except Primarina Moonblast, but if it's running Poison Jab or Iron Head, or even enough ATK and a Choice Banded Surging Strikes, and Primarina goes down in two turns.
molten oasis
What even is the team
mighty stump
true, but at the time I didnt have any other checks to Urshifu-Water except Prim...
Urshi-Water never runs Iron Head/Rarely runs PJab
At most its coverage is Ice Spinner
dull ibex
anyone down for a vc rn?
crimson flume
Both have their pros and cons
Yea. Dark shifu was the first mon I got to counter psyspam XD
mighty stump
Just sounds like Prim needs to be EV’d better for Watershifu/SS if it’s one of your checks
devout wing
Just sounds like Prim needs to be EV’d better for Watershifu/SS if it’s one of y...
It really can't be, because Primarina is a specially bulky mon, but atm it's my only Pokemon with a super-effective move on it
Granted, that does mean more building is neccesary
charred saddle
Pokemon is just math. Numbers don’t lie
no wonder asians are good at pokemon
molten oasis
Primarina @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Voice
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 212 HP / 164 Def / 52 SpA / 76 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Protect
mighty stump
It really can't be, because Primarina is a specially bulky mon, but atm it's my ...
I don’t see what that has to do with EVing
Investing in it’s def is a greater % change due to it’s lower value anyways so you should be doing so
autumn vault
Primarina @ Leftovers
Ability: Liquid Voice
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Tera Typ...
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Single Strike Poison Jab vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Primarina: 176-208 (96.7 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
mighty stump
Particularly due to it’s special bulk meaning it doesn’t require as heavy of an investment
autumn vault
Also applies to rapid strike
molten oasis
Who is running banded shifu
autumn vault
Who is running banded shifu
dark urshifu players for some reason
charred saddle
almost no one is running poison ujab band now
molten oasis
Since when?
devout wing
Actually, other than Catch These Iron Hands, are there any good Electric types in Competitive right now?
charred saddle
single now usuallyruns sash
molten oasis
Sash or scarf
charred saddle
and with sash = no jab
mighty stump
Raging Bolt just flat out replaced Iron Hands
devout wing
Raging Bolt
i trade mine for an iron crown 😦
charred saddle
i dont even think scarf uses jab
autumn vault
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu-Single Strike Poison Jab vs. 212 HP / 164 Def Primarina: 144-170 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I forgot to add the defense evs
mighty stump
One of the best Pokemon in the metagame atm
molten oasis
i dont even think scarf uses jab
Some do
mighty stump
They also Tera Poison
molten oasis
It’s usually a choice over sucker punch
autumn vault
On scarf poison jab is not off the table