competitive_discussion

[tough idol]

Personally with my current team. I imprison TR, then I don't have to OHKO either T1 lol

[real prairie]

maybe tera Electric rain electroshot but thats extremely niche for one potential

[real prairie]

Imprison is the answer!!!

danke

[kindred cypress]

I believe mane learns both trick room and imprison, so prob go booster speed with dazzle shadow trick room and imprison

[real prairie]

im looking to build a poison team so may go dazlle hex TR Imp

[kindred cypress]

Unless you got a prankster that can do it, you’re not getting hex buff of most mons

[real prairie]

I just have to make sure my Glimmora outspeeds my flutter

[kindred cypress]

You don’t want that

You want mane to be the fastest

So it can always imprison

Not every match will be both tr setters

Plus, imprison only works on 1 Mon, so you need a Mon that can get the ohko in the other

[real prairie]

Ey? Imprison works on all opp mons on the field

[dapper crag]

Move: Imprison

The user prevents all opposing Pokemon from using any moves that the user also knows as long as the user remains active.

Type

Psychic

Category

Status

Power

0

Accuracy

—

PP (max)

10 (16)

Move Flags

​

Protect

Bypasses Protect-like moves.

Authentic

Bypasses substitute.

Contact

Does not make contact.

Snatch

Affected by Snatch.

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[kindred cypress]

Mb

[real prairie]

np 🙂

think i could potentially run imprison Fair 🤔

[kindred cypress]

You’d need alot of speed evs

Imprison ain’t a priority, so if they kill it that’s it

Why I suggested mane

[real prairie]

but it needs to stay alive to keep it from working

so also needs bulk

[silver ravine]

Just learned about Bruxish. Youch

[real prairie]

?

[silver ravine]

It has dazzling which acts like armor tail or psychic terrain

[tough idol]

That's why my Imprison is Deedee, Rocky Helmet. Not lost it to an OHKO so far

[real prairie]

ah so like Tsreena too

[tough idol]

Is Bruxish not flimsy though

[strange fjord]

Archaludon is Level 100. Farigiraf is level 50

16+ SpA Archaludon Flash Cannon vs. 180 HP / 180 SpD Farigiraf: 66-78 (30.2 - 35.7%) -- 25.5% chance to 3HKO

For both being level 50

[real prairie]

LOL good spot

[silver ravine]

Could use focus sash for it., but it might be a waste

[strange fjord]

It only says Level 50 if the other is not level 50 as well

in the damage calc that is

[real prairie]

seems the worse of the 3 options then

I have been running bulky set Tsreena and enjoying it

it having naturally good Atk is nice and it can oneshot RS Urshu

[crude pollen]

Personally prefer Tsareena, but grass slot has so much competition

[tough idol]

?

[real prairie]

How do you run yours?

this is mine, ignore the EVs they are a WIP

[tough idol]

Ah my bad

[tough idol]

Missed that lol

[crude pollen]

What mine was for reg D but haven't updated since

Was meant to be able to handle Heatran so low kick would probably be knock off now

[timber falcon]

https://pokepast.es/488e30516435f98c thoughts?

[real prairie]

Ooo what is Trop Kick?

[dapper crag]

Move: Trop Kick

Has a 100% chance to lower the target's Attack by 1 stage.

Type

Grass

Category

Physical

Power

70

Accuracy

100

PP (max)

15 (24)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Makes contact.

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[tough idol]

I'm no expert, but Sub amd Protect on Lando? Would 1 or other not be better with Sandsear?

Also do Gouging normally run Heat Crash over Blitz?

[real prairie]

yeah they do

but agree with you on the Lando

Taunt Ogre is an interesting choice im not mad at

losing Follow me is harsh though

[tough idol]

Same, I was thinking no Follow, but taunt could work

[real prairie]

with its natual speed im not mad at it being a taunter

[tough idol]

I'd maybe run Wood Hammer over Horn Leech if you aren't going Follow Me

[real prairie]

prankster taunt isnt as useful with everyone running priority counter

[real prairie]

completely fair

[timber falcon]

i dont mind the recoil cause it ensures 120 bp

[real prairie]

id also look at running one of your mons as tera grass as a Spore/rage powder counter

[timber falcon]

taunt i find vital sometimes, id prefer it used over follow me

[timber falcon]

yeah im actually thinking of goggles farig for that

[real prairie]

Farig doesn't have a lot of damage output though

[timber falcon]

i can change that

[real prairie]

you ideally want them putting one of your key damage mons to sleep

[timber falcon]

oh wait

isnt oger a counter

[real prairie]

pre tera, yeah thats true

not going to hit Amoongus very hard but if it KO's everything else guess that doesnt matter lol

[timber falcon]

hmm but pre tera also loses 1 on 1

[real prairie]

yeah you aren't going to enjoy too many pollen Puffs or Clear Smogs

[timber falcon]

low ladder is such hell oml

[tough idol]

Low ladder is fine tbf

You see the unknown

[timber falcon]

max speed indeedee

and i mean max max

life wtf

no low ladder player is ever accepting ots

suprise factor gremlins

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2024regf-2066970402

my ursh is 149 speed which deedee outsped

crazy

[echo hatch]

Bottom of ladder is better than bottom of master ball imo

[tough idol]

Wolfes knowledge is just unreal

[echo hatch]

Yeah he’s built way different

[real prairie]

Whats this in reference to?

honestly wtf am i looking at

[cyan smelt]

Did you know raichu and alolan raichu get upper hand

[real prairie]

alolan Raichu also gets expanding force apparently

[cyan smelt]

Too bad it lost rising voltage

[echo hatch]

Bro

Tera water flutter mane? What the fuck is happening

[bold geode]

Bro's acting as if that ain't a good defensive tera for Mane

[sick coral]

i do so much

[echo hatch]

Is it actually? They were using it for Tera blast which I also haven’t seen

[bold geode]

Tera Blast is odd, but Water is a good defensive typing. People just nowadays run Fairy for firepower

[echo hatch]

Yeah I just figured like normal or even like ground would be better defensively in terms of typing but maybe not in terms of actual matchups that are common

[bold geode]

Water or Grass really

[dusk tangle]

can somebody help me build dark spam ho with lead samurott?

[true niche]

both of these f**kers have snarl

[mighty stump]

lul

[deft badger]

I keep having problems with fluttermane

[winter compass]

Not sure if this rant belongs here but I want to hear some opinions
Trying to find trades for Raging Bolt/Gouging Fire is so damn annoying. Like at least I already have a pair for my living dex so I'm fine I'm that regard, but trying to find a trade just so I can try using them in ranked battles seems unreasonably expensive, especially compared to Iron Crown/Iron Boulder. Since Iron Crown is popular in VGC, I don't think it's the issue that GF/RB are way more valuable competitively, it's just that Scarlet Players are incredibly scarce.
The only trades I've seen completed for GF/RB recently were for PoGo Shiny Legendaries, of all things, and that seems super overpriced. Guess I'll try figuring out a different option for trade, since I don't want to have to buy Scarlet just to obtain GF/RB easier.

If anyone has any thoughts on this, I'd love to hear it

[crimson flume]

My flutter is tera grass

Completely invalidates amoongus

[crimson flume]

I waited 2 days to get a RB.

And I already have a good rep as a trader. haha.

Considering I only trade when I need to and I don't trade that often.

Sometimes you just need to build connections I guess. 350 hours of playing and I only had a major disagreement with 1 person.

[crimson flume]

I remember one match where both of my mons ended up sleeping because I didn't have counters for hypnotic / yawn.

Also @winter compass POGO Shiny Legendaries for a GF/RB are overpriced. Seems these people are taking advantage of the fact that scarlet players are rare.

I don't even play Pogo lol. I'm not a huge fan of Niantic either. Back when they launched pogo, too many spoofers ruined my tastebuds for playing the game.

[fluid wind]

went 9-3 with this team so far https://pokepast.es/a141fb1f6ca8901d

[winter compass]

Thanks for your input, I definitely don't think I have a bad rep as a trader, but you made a pretty good point about how I might not be leveraging connections with Scarlet players that I have traded with in the past. Maybe I'll try that out, who knows. Hoping that Gouging Fire/Raging Bolt start to ease down at some point, currently it's not very fun looking for trades for them.

[gentle crag]

alphaxzero has given 1 Gen Rep to orange_uva

[crimson flume]

Rep and connections are everything when you have to win with people.

Then again, I'm an introvert (because I'm allergic to scammers/trolls and people who take advantage of others for their personal gain). Didn't stop me.

Without my friends here, I doubt I would even be able to complete my pokedexes.

[timber falcon]

I just realised I can use gapdos without using scarf

Why do I keep forgetting different sets are a thing

[timber falcon]

Add a flutter counter

Like Waterpon

[cyan smelt]

Ursaluna bm

Also it's hard to help when we don't know your team

[crimson flume]

Terastallization is one of the best gimmicks to shake things up haha.

I still love the Tera Ground Iron crown.

Gives me an extra typing for tera blast coverage.

I used to run tera psychic and I was having a hard time with coverage.

[charred saddle]

the reason why people are offering pogo shiny legends are because of supply and demand
its rare, and valuable, hence people offered more for it.

"oh but then you can farm it no?"

goodluck on making the living dex first, then speedrun the whole game 10 -16 hours

[cyan smelt]

I've seen tera water too

[charred saddle]

its 1 per savefile. you cant expect people not to want something at least they deem equal or more to it

fyi speedrunning 10-16 hours is only possible when u did it twice at least, since you need to learn the shortest route possible

and actually, legit shiny legends actually have more value then pogo shiny legends, people only looked for pogo stamps since its the easiest legality check.

like you can easily see 2:1 pogo shiny legends trade for apriball shiny legends in DA

[autumn vault]

the reason us scarlet players aren't trading them is because of scarcity, we only get 2 per safe file and getting a new pair of them takes too long

the same reason for violet players not trading iron crown/boulder

[timber falcon]

Tera in CTS can be the most INFURIATING thing however

[autumn vault]

OTOT is right

[mighty stump]

But generally there are Teras you can expect and already prepare for lol

[timber falcon]

Lost to ghost tera damn water shifu and ghost lando

Like what the heck

[mighty stump]

But did you ever consider the logic behind it though?

[autumn vault]

one time my opponent lost because i had tera fairy on dozo and their g-fire cant use breaking swipe on it

[timber falcon]

Yes, but it was too rare to take into consideration

[knotty mirage]

Surprise factor i guess

[mighty stump]

Wrong

Lol

[timber falcon]

Never would I fake out a shifu and guess that things gonna have ghost tera

[mighty stump]

Particularly if they're choiced

There is logic behind having Choice Item mons using Tera Ghost to be able to avoid Fake Outs

I've been preaching this for a while now

[timber falcon]

I’m pretty sure it was scarfed as usual

So that makes sense

But still it was infuriating

[mighty stump]

Sometimes things can seem wack but before writing thigns off there is still a single filter to consider: is there justifiable logic behind the decision

If not, write it off

[charred saddle]

poison tera scarfed watershifu still haunts my dream till now

[knotty mirage]

I mean in ranked ladder bug terra seem's to be common

[mighty stump]

Plus then you can say "yes its rare" and most of the time you can still Fake Out safely

So overall you learn something new, write it off, and can consider something for future teambuilds.

[crimson flume]

Yeah.

[mighty stump]

Plus sometimes if you're playing CTS without leveraging the fact it's CTS

Then 🤷‍♂️

[winter compass]

I think my biggest annoyance is that Iron Crown/Iron Boulder isn't worth as much as Raging Bolt/Gouging Fire
Like yeah I get there's supply/demand obv, but there's a pretty significant gap in how you can find trades for them (speaking from experience trading my Iron Crown/Iron Boulders)

[timber falcon]

It’s low ladders, in Bo1 once u get higher up people stop rejecting as often but low ladder players sit there with sets that have never been seen before

[mighty stump]

But you can't really expect people in CTS to always OTS when an OTS ladder is right there lol

[timber falcon]

Watched a situs berry flutter barely take over 50% damage from my watershifu

[mighty stump]

It's a level playing field either or

Can't really blame low ladder either if it's rare

Since that's the environment your alt or whatever is in at the moment

[timber falcon]

I feel so disgusted with myself for previously spamming spore smeargle

ots is saviour

[crimson flume]

Just helped alpha get a raging bolt.

Alls well that ends well.

Just pushing it forward.

[crimson flume]

I hope we get to fight head to head in ranked doubles haha.

I think I recognized some familiar names of people I played against with, when I was doing BBQs.

[autumn vault]

raging bolt and gouging fire are (generally) better in people's opinions so they will get them even sacrificing a lot of pokemon just for them

[crimson flume]

There is 1 caveat.

[autumn vault]

yeah?

[crimson flume]

The only reason raging bolt is top tier now is because Miraidon, another electric / dragon type is not allowed in the reg.

Once he's allowed to be played, well, let's just say Miraidon > Raging bolt.

[mighty stump]

No that is not the reasoning

Lol

[crimson flume]

That's what others tell me. xD

[mighty stump]

Others are misguided

[crimson flume]

And it makes sense. Miraidon is the box legendary of violet.

[mighty stump]

That logic just means it's about typing

[autumn vault]

bolt gets a priority move mirai doesn't

[mighty stump]

Raging Bolt has access to a Priority STAB SpA move that hits Watershifu for SE

It's bulk is incredibly respectable, and can run Snarl support

So it's the ultimate Watershifu check

[crimson flume]

hmmm now I'm tempted to actually use RB in my competitive team

[autumn vault]

bolt will have lower usage but not die is that what you mean right?

[mighty stump]

You cannot make the same comparison between either of them though, when they might see tandem use.

[crimson flume]

Who is raging bolt normally paired with in doubles?

[mighty stump]

Balance cores

[crimson flume]

Uh?

why did you delete your comment haha.

[mighty stump]

Here's an excerpt, just read that bit.

[crimson flume]

It made sense lol.

[mighty stump]

Also another one.

And particularly

[timber falcon]

This is why we have giraffes

[autumn vault]

i always knew bolt wouldn't die just because of mirai

trick room teams also don't mind bolt as it isn't too fast and can use it to outspeed it's threats under trick room and does not rely on t-clap to go first

[crimson flume]

Stand corrected in that regard.

[autumn vault]

i will always believe what i said

maybe i am wrong, but who knows? I always thought that bolt will not die because of mirai

[timber falcon]

Yeah bolt gonna stand strong

Got that a vest tera fairy shenanigans

[knotty mirage]

It have chance to drop because of caly shadow but it can also be good agains't kyogre so maybe

[crimson flume]

Everyone talking about calyrex shadow.

[timber falcon]

Cause it’s broken

[crimson flume]

Meanwhile me: Who doesn't have Pokemon sword / never played it: I'm in danger.

[autumn vault]

i mean zacian got nerfed and caly shadow did get banned from Singles Ubers

and zacian didn't get banned from it

[knotty mirage]

It go to anything goes so yeah

You need to do some horrible thing to get into that tier

[autumn vault]

Can you imagine astral barrage next to chi-yu? Yes i can and it will probably be super common

[knotty mirage]

I don't want to think about it

[timber falcon]

What despicable crime did it do to get banned from UBERS

[autumn vault]

tera helping it out

[knotty mirage]

And no more yveltal

[timber falcon]

But we got incin

[autumn vault]

Zacian is kept in check by skeledirge

[timber falcon]

Skeliderge is kept in check by half the current meta

[knotty mirage]

Terra fighting terra blast good luck with that

[mighty stump]

I really feel the need to almost always point out that a 1v1 scenario where you go "I tera and have the correct coverage" doesn't invalidate the counter

You forced them to blow a tera and moveslot for that

[timber falcon]

Beat me to it

[knotty mirage]

Fair enough but due too my experience on casual i'm not sure if incin can stand a chance

[mighty stump]

252 SpA Life Orb Tera-Fighting Calyrex-Shadow Rider Tera Blast vs. 236 HP / 156+ SpD Incineroar: 179-213 (89.5 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Just over 1/3 roll

Seems pretty good to me

So it's not even a guaranteed scenario

Plus, in higher power formats

You can expect to see AV Incineroars

[timber falcon]

Yeah and we may see more assault vest incins to boot

Again beat me to it 😭

[mighty stump]

Casual can never be compared to Competitive play

No stakes, suboptimal sets used, less people care

[knotty mirage]

But caly shadow and fem indeedeed is the most annoying thing i have ever seen on there

[knotty mirage]

Fair enough

[timber falcon]

Can’t u spam restricted mons in casuals

[winter compass]

It's gonna take some time for me to get into doubles lol, I gotta learn singles first

[timber falcon]

That’s not gonna work, both formats have different metas and stuff. Took me a while to migrate from singles to doubles

[mighty stump]

Fundamentals might be similar

But it's best to just learn to format you intend to play from the get go

[winter compass]

I can see that

But surely it can't be that hard to say get into Master rank after enough time?

[knotty mirage]

The meta is changing each reg so not sure

[timber falcon]

Singles meta is chaos rn

[mighty stump]

Well it's not that hard to get into MBall tier in general if you have half an idea of how to play

Sometimes you can just cheese your way through as well

[knotty mirage]

Cannot agree more after seeing fire spin stall dragonite

[timber falcon]

Lmao

[winter compass]

That makes sense to me, I watch some Japanese singles ranked gameplay

Main reason why I want to try ranked in the first place

[timber falcon]

In singles nothings saving you, it’s either go hard or go slow

[mighty stump]

Because it's so coinflip based the margin of error in BSS is much smaller

A lot of top JPN players also play Singles last I heard

And it builds your fundamentals better

[timber falcon]

btw what are the sets for a defensive flutter?

i wanna calc what attack incin gotta have for flare to OHKO

[mighty stump]

Like

The spe booster set

is probably your highest

on the nerd of now calc

its a preset

[timber falcon]

ok thanks

252+ Atk Incineroar Flare Blitz vs. 124 HP / 140 Def Flutter Mane: 133-157 (91 - 107.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

well incin is not the reliable flutter killer

[cyan smelt]

try ogerpon

incin is more of a pivot

[timber falcon]

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Ogerpon-Hearthflame Ivy Cudgel vs. 124 HP / 140 Def Flutter Mane: 115-136 (78.7 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

[cyan smelt]

wellspring is better and try on a crit

[timber falcon]

wellspring has same damage output however, maybe ill look for a super effective move

[timber falcon]

https://pokepast.es/2398abb98cc47541 any thoughts on last mon to add?

first time ever doing calcs and i may have gone overboard on whats surviving what

[charred saddle]

thats a veryy. slow lando idk

[timber falcon]

its tailwind reliant

[charred saddle]

then thats thhat. u will be very rekliant on tw

[timber falcon]

yeah nvm i cant seem to use tailwind right

[charred saddle]

whats the 60 hp on ogerpon for? and 196 on speed

[mighty stump]

That's not the one

252+ Atk Incineroar Flare Blitz vs. 212 HP / 132 Def Flutter Mane: 135-160 (85.9 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

[knotty mirage]

I wonder can ting lu counter caly shadow maybe the vessel of ruin could help makes astral barrage more managable

[charred saddle]

and resist it

while 4x

[wheat geode]

Can a support-oriented Gyarados still deal decent damage with little to no EV investment in Atk?

[mighty stump]

Yeah it does decent chip.

[wheat geode]

Awesome! I'm assuming it typically runs only one attack move (with STAB), and that attack depends on what kind of opponent you'd like to counter? So meta threats?

[mighty stump]

Support Gyara usually runs Waterfall/Iron Head, with Waterfall being the singular choice if you don't run any other attacking move

[wheat geode]

Gotcha, tysm!

[gentle crag]

daveeee has given 1 Gen Rep to woodtofu

[wheat geode]

I'll take a look at what the common EV spreads are

[timber falcon]

Oh that’s a REALLY tough flutter

[mighty stump]

Lmao

[mighty stump]

Shameless plug, new blog post dropped https://tofu-snorlax.hatenablog.com/entry/tofutable8

[crimson flume]

You're here too! ❤️

[crimson flume]

What OTOT said. Both formats are different. It's not a prerequisite for you to master singles before doubles.

Singles I heard are also a lot longer and can take more than 100+ turns.

I went in doubles first because it's the VGC format for tournaments.

All of my actions in scarlet/violet are just to support me in my dream of competing in an IRL tournament.

Winning is another story xD

[mighty stump]

That's the story in OU, I'm fairly sure they mean in game BSS

Cause of the mention of Japanese players.

[crimson flume]

I have a friend who does smogon.

[mighty stump]

So it's never going to take that long

[crimson flume]

Some type of community with separate rules compared to vgc.

I think they specialize in singles(?)

[mighty stump]

I'm aware of Smogon lol

I don't know who uses Showdown and isn't aware of Smogon

[crimson flume]

Okay, so I tried rapid strike urshifu with choice scarf.... and I am starting to know why U turn isn't recommended....

But a choice item limits you to 1 move...

I don't see a good scenario where you can use Detect... unless you want to switch out the next turn.

Starting to think mystic water is the better alternative since it's more flexible.

Even for single strike urshifu, focus sash is usually the most common item vs a choice item.

[mighty stump]

?

Why would you ever use Choice item + Protect

[wheat geode]

I am! Nowhere near as good as anyone here in Competitive though hahahaha

[crimson flume]

Got recommended to change u turn for detect instead...

[mighty stump]

Who recommended that ever

Stop listening to these people

For a moment I thought the paste I featured what Choice Scarf + Protect

[crimson flume]

Not you. Someone else haha

[mighty stump]

If it is a non-choice scarf set, then yeah, run Detect

[crimson flume]

But I think that person recommended mystic water. For some reason I changed it to choice scarf.

[mighty stump]

But if it's Choice'd you run U-Turn

[crimson flume]

Initially I thought indeedee-f psychic terrain will stop this team, but then chien pao has an ice spinner move which removes it.

[molten oasis]

Well not all pao’s run spinner

Farigiraf is good into prio spam

Gouging fire is also good into paonite

[wheat geode]

"floral churchaludon" gives the impression you played ff7 and said "i could include this in a team"

[mighty stump]

I definitely did not play FF7

Lol

[shell sandal]

can anyone help me fix this team please 🙂

https://pokepast.es/67555b17551a7edc

[kindred cypress]

Incin likes a more bulky spread of evs, farigiraf can use Tera fairy with dazzle, urshifu can have aqua jet over protect

[shell sandal]

i replaced aqua jet with u turn

the issue is idk how to use this team properly

[kindred cypress]

Don’t have bulldoze on giraffe

[shell sandal]

its supposed to activate weakness policy

[kindred cypress]

If you use trick room, you’ll be giving the enemy a speed buff

[dapper crag]

Move: Bulldoze

Has a 100% chance to lower the target's Speed by 1 stage.

Type

Ground

Category

Physical

Power

60

Accuracy

100

PP (max)

20 (32)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Does not make contact.

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[shell sandal]

right i think im going to switch it

[mighty stump]

WHy is Farigiraf Tera Ground + Focus Sash

[shell sandal]

because i was originally running discharge weakness policy on the bolt

[mighty stump]

and Thunderbolt would just be overall be more consistent since youre not guaranteeing Rain every turn

[kindred cypress]

Also try assault vest on bolt

Replace protect with snarl

[mighty stump]

What are the changes for though

[shell sandal]

wdym

i was going to run magnet bolt

[mighty stump]

• Tornadus was Physical Def EVs for Rocky Helmet
• Just run Thunderbolt as a more consistent option. Draco Meteor over Dragon Pulse after you make the change since you're not going for boosts
• Some of the EVs on Raging Bolt/Flutter Mane/Urshifu just look inefficient

[shell sandal]

the main issues is i dont know how to play urshifu, its so damn glassy lol. I gave it enough speed to beat a 252+ flutter

[mighty stump]

If you need help with Standard sets, look at Piklatics

[shell sandal]

does it help with ev?

[kindred cypress]

Yes

[mighty stump]

It gives you standard sets.

[kindred cypress]

Shows the most prominent ones

[shell sandal]

also im thinking of replacing farigiraf with amoongus

so i can have a FWG core

[kindred cypress]

What do you think would benefit your team more, no priority spam or non playable enemies?

[shell sandal]

hmmm, prolly non playable enemies right since urshifu is super glassy

plus redirection away from shifu is important,

ig flutter mane is weak to sucker, but with an incin swap in (which will always be picked if they use chien) the sucker does around 50%

then again, raging bolt is at a speed tier where tailwind and trick room can both benefit it

[brisk hatch]

Hello poke fam..
I been away for a while on Bg3

Is it to late to sign up for the global challenge ?

Everyone quit playing ??
Lol

[bold void]

People are busy. Wait patiently please

[shell sandal]

whats that

[brisk hatch]

@bold void what's last day u can sign up for the online ladder GC2?

@shell sandal

[bold void]

I don't know
I don't play competitive
And please don't ping me or others if we don't know

[shell sandal]

what is the online ladder GC2??

[brisk hatch]

I think sign up end Thursday @shell sandal

Check the news on ur switch for SV

[bold void]

Global challenge. Just an online tournament that gives you some free stuff for participating. It gave the shiny galatians birds in swsh

[shell sandal]

oh is it over

oh thurs

[next stump]

Last day is Thursday like 6PM EST

[brisk hatch]

I just wanna have fun with it.. I have been playing at all..lately

[mental glen]

Dose anyone have a PokePaste for tornados thunderus and landorus and maybe even Enamorus?

[kind ember]

Is there anyway to make misty and electric terrain useful?

[timber falcon]

Yes

Just gotta centre your team around it

[bold geode]

Eeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhh

Electric Terrain not as much rn
Restricted format comes and Miraidon will help Electric
But sadly I don't see much Misty use unless the Tapus come back

Which then again, Electric Terrain and Psychic will have wars there too

[timber falcon]

Yeah miraidon is gonna make electric terrain gud

[bold geode]

Yup if that happened, Tapu Fini vs Tapu Koko vs Tapu Lele vs Tapu Rillaboom

[mental glen]

Dose anyone have poke paste for tornados thunderus and Enamorus

[bold geode]

Nope

Not all 3 together cuz that's booboo

[mental glen]

Do you have any for just one of them then?

[bold geode]

Just like Enamorus is booboo

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Uuuh

[mental glen]

I mainly want them for BB League and fighting against friends lol

[bold geode]

If you wanna just have REALLY fat Tornadus set

Tornadus @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 228 HP / 156 Def / 4 SpA / 76 SpD / 44 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk

• Icy Wind
• Tailwind
• Bleakwind Storm
• Rain Dance

[mental glen]

Thanks

[bold geode]

Or that's not as fat but

Yeah

[timber falcon]

I’ll save this

[mental glen]

Now I just need a move set for thunderus and Enamorus wish me luck looking for someone oh and if you have a set for heatran let me know

[bold geode]

Ok
Also credits to Tofu for that spread

[timber falcon]

Okidoki

[timber falcon]

U could go stellar tera enamorus

https://pokepast.es/2f67bd8e995a0fb1 any thoughts here?

[real prairie]

Anyone able to help me build a hex/venoshock team?

[knotty mirage]

Idk seem's little bit too gimmicky is it for single ?

[timber falcon]

singles right?

[craggy dagger]

tsareena?

[kindred cypress]

Incin likes grass Tera over water and a more bulkier ev spread,and raging bolt needs thunderclap, so replace electroweb with it

[timber falcon]

ok

[craggy dagger]

electroweb bolt is still a thing but it would def want thunderclap before any other electric move

[kindred cypress]

Think about it, you’d be buffing your enemies in tr

[craggy dagger]

so you prevent tr from happening-

[timber falcon]

but im not running tr

[kindred cypress]

@timber falcon these are the top 2 ev spreads for incin

[kindred cypress]

If your enemies do

[craggy dagger]

just go look up brady’s spread

[kindred cypress]

I prefer pikalytics

[craggy dagger]

half of the sets i see in pika is max max

on a suicune-
max hp max SpA
there’s not a more “diverse” spread since i think pika takes it from showdown?

[kindred cypress]

There is, the one above it lol

[craggy dagger]

for specific pokemon yeah but most just run max max which is annoying cause i found a way to optimize a spread that wasn’t max max

[timber falcon]

what are they calced for?

[craggy dagger]

ss after sitrus recovery etc

[timber falcon]

ss?

[craggy dagger]

surging strikes

[timber falcon]

oh ok

[kindred cypress]

I ain’t the best at vgc, but this is what smogon says, also the spread is altered a bit

[timber falcon]

i like the sound of goggles

[nocturne holly]

https://pokepast.es/0c329d2676e94d3f thoughts??

[timber falcon]

black glasses over plate

it looks cooler

overall im struggling to find a fault in team, looks pretty good

[craggy dagger]

LATI BALANCEEEEE

uh

i would add rain dance instead of heal pulse if you wanna boost damage further

[real prairie]

Nope

[timber falcon]

I second that

[timber falcon]

The how do you plan on doing such a team

[real prairie]

My starting point is Glimmora toxic debris + mortal spin

Maybe toxic Amoongus

Also liked the look of Spectrier shadow ball, hex, disable

But might be flutter hex instead

[timber falcon]

So first off, what’s your Psyspam stopper

Cause ur gonna 100% need one

[bold geode]

Not bad
I've also seen replacing Latias for Bolt and going Scarfshifu but I see no problems with this initially

[nocturne holly]

it’s not scarfshifu???

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 994: Iron Moth

Types

Fire/Poison

Abilities

Quark Drive

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

80/70/60/140/110/110

Total

570

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[nocturne holly]

I thought it was

[bold geode]

Mystic

Although I wouldn't worry about TW too much on a balance style team with Scarf

[nocturne holly]

lemme change that

[timber falcon]

@real prairie this would be the hardest hitting Venoshocker available. Maybe speed booster with this as an option?

[nocturne holly]

ima try bolllt

[bold geode]

Yeah Bolt balance is nice

[timber falcon]

U could actually run twave flutter + hex siding with hex chi yu tbh

[craggy dagger]

but lati balance…

[kindred cypress]

Thunderus thunder waves, flutter hexs, you get neuron activation

[craggy dagger]

wouldn’t wisp hex be better?

[real prairie]

Twave ensures you have the speed advantage

Get the hex off before they hit

[craggy dagger]

wisp halves contact damage which for flutter is better imo cause it’s physically frail

plus you’re fast anyways as flutter

[real prairie]

If you go twave you can go bulky set flutter

[craggy dagger]

but you want damage no?

[real prairie]

You always have flutter damage, you sacrifice speed

[craggy dagger]

specs hex proto speed with a wisp prankster :0

[real prairie]

Well unless you are running a support flutter but those are rare

Are there any toxic pranksters?

[real prairie]

Probably chi yu as it can also burn

[crude pollen]

Grafaiai

[sterile ivy]

Is it OK to ask for help regarding team building/composition in here?

[next stump]

Yes, just make sure you specify what format of battling you’re doing

[sterile ivy]

Probably double battles, as that's the "official" competitive format... Right?

I haven't really done any online team building in a very long time, so I don't know much. Would these 4 work together, and what would be good for the final 2 spots? I struggle with understanding what should go on a team (sweepers, walls etc.) so it's hard to fully grasp what should go into a team

Espathra
--------
Ability: Speed Boost
Item: Leftovers
- Dazzling Gleam
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Stored Power

Ceruledge
--------
Ability: Flash Fire
Item: Focus Sash
- Bitter Blade
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Poltergeist

Alolan Ninetales
----------------
Ability: Snow Warning
Item: Light Clay
- Aurora Veil
- Freeze-dry
- Encore
- Moonblast

Gliscor
-------
Ability: Poison Heal
Item: Toxic Orb
- Earthquake
- Spikes
- Protect
- Poison Jab

[craggy dagger]

fling acrobatics gliscor :<

[next stump]

No worries at all now, but in the future, it’s a lot easier to read teams on a pokepaste than it is via text in here. To make one, just go to Pokemon Showdown and click “Export to Pokepaste” from the teambuilder screen.

I think with the pokemon you mentioned, unfortunately all of them except Ninetales have a very very hard time functioning in the current meta

Even ninetales isn’t great, but it’s definitely usable

[sterile ivy]

Interesting.
They're mostly just Pokemon I like, but that's why I asked. Where can I read up on meta? I remember Smogon being popular years ago. Is that still the case? That's where I got the ability setups from.

[craggy dagger]

i would check out victory road :>

[next stump]

Smogon is more useful for single battling, if you want doubles resources I will find a message I sent a while ago with good resources

Here is a list of all of the resources I find most helpful when playing/learning VGC:

https://www.vgcguide.com/ (Helpful website for basics and also to get your feet wet)

https://www.pikalytics.com/ (Shows you usage data and helps you build Pokémon)

https://nerd-of-now.github.io/NCP-VGC-Damage-Calculator/ (Damage calculator that is very helpful when building teams or reflecting on games)

https://youtube.com/c/CybertronVGC (Best channel for daily VGC content, guiding you through the thought process you need for success)

https://victoryroadvgc.com/ (Tournament results, team reports and breakdowns, and rental codes can be found here)

https://twitter.com/VGCPastes - Tournament and high ranked teams

https://twitter.com/vgccorner - Helpful Twitter account that posts in-depth EV spreads and ideas about competitive pokemon

There are dozens of other resources, some of which are in the pinned messages of this channel. But these IMO are the best places to start absorbing knowledge and getting to a place where you're comfortable with VGC

[craggy dagger]

:0
owh

[kindred cypress]

https://tenor.com/view/imostergolfra-gif-25274972

[sterile ivy]

Thank you all! I'll try to read through it tomorrow.

A bit sad that the Pokemon I wanted aren't really good, but that's competitive.

[next stump]

It really depends on how you have fun with the game.

Can you build a team with those pokemon and win some games in lower ranks? Sure, but you most likely wouldn’t be able to climb the ladder very effectively and you’re essentially shooting yourself in the foot

[kindred cypress]

There’s always incineroar

[next stump]

But if your idea of having fun mostly comes from using your favorite pokemon, then do that

[sterile ivy]

I refuse. 😄
I am never going back to Sun/Moon meta. That was when I quit playing Pokemon.

@next stump its somewhere in the middle. I'd prefer playing with my faves but ideally I'd also like to win sometimes. That's why I'm trying to get an overview of what's good and bad, and what needs to be go into a team.

[stone tide]

what do you guys think of this regidrago team? https://pokepast.es/da1b73e299b66542 i think it's pretty strong, but i don't really know if urshifu is neccesary on this team or what to replace him with.

my main idea was to get rid of all of regidrago's bad matchups and then sweep with regidrago

[dapper crag]

A lot of people hate Incineroar but are reluctantly using him because "Intimidate is the single best ability in the game bar none"

I will say using favorites tends to work out better in the long run if you don't really care too much about climbing

[craggy dagger]

Incin was only really good cause you get role compression-
knock off, fake out, intimidate

[dapper crag]

Parting Shot

[craggy dagger]

not as “useful” as the others but yeah

role compression on incin is crazy

[ruby epoch]

I’m new to team building and wanted to build something relatively interesting, put together this: https://pokepast.es/4c41d189060e70ac would love it if anyone had advice

Oops 2 leftovers, pretend incineroar has safety goggles also pretend urshifu is Tera water

[craggy dagger]

you might want to have a not tera grass toed since it retains the ice weakness

[mighty stump]

Knock Off, Fake Out, Wisp, Snarl, Parting Shot, Intimidate 🙏 We love Incineroar in this household

[bold geode]

Inchurcheroar

[molten oasis]

incin the ultimate role compression mon

[mighty stump]

• Aqua Jet over U-Turn for non-Choice Urshifu
• Earth Power over Hex; EP is an effective 125 BP while Hex needs the condition of status to hit 130 in this scenario.
• If you’re doing Duraludon with Eviolite you might as well be using a full supportive moveset
• You’re missing STAB on Regigigas
• Your bulk calcs are inefficient, you almost always invest in HP first and foremost. For Duraludon specifically you’ll need both HP and SpDef.
• Taunt over Flamethrower on Weezing, the coverage aspect isn’t as important as disruption of utility.

[molten oasis]

weezing gets flamethrower?

[dapper crag]

Weezing's moveset:

Physical Moves

Assurance, Bide, Body Slam, Double Hit, Explosion, Facade, Frustration, Giga Impact, Gunk Shot, Gyro Ball, Headbutt, Natural Gift, Payback, Rage, Return, Rollout, Secret Power, Self-Destruct, Tackle, Take Down, Thief

Special Moves

Acid Spray, Belch, Clear Smog, Dark Pulse, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Heat Wave, Hidden Power, Hyper Beam, Incinerate, Infestation, Psybeam, Psywave, Round, Shadow Ball, Shock Wave, Sludge, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Smog, Snore, Spit Up, Tera Blast, Thunder, Thunderbolt, Uproar, Venoshock, Zap Cannon

Status Moves

Attract, Captivate, Confide, Corrosive Gas, Curse, Destiny Bond, Double Team, Endure, Flash, Grudge, Haze, Memento, Mimic, Pain Split, Poison Gas, Protect, Rain Dance, Rest, Scary Face, Screech, Sleep Talk, Smokescreen, Spite, Stockpile, Substitute, Sunny Day, Swagger, Swallow, Taunt, Torment, Toxic, Toxic Spikes, Venom Drench, Will-O-Wisp

Notes

A move displayed with Bold text benefits from Same-Type Attack Bonus when used by Weezing.

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[mighty stump]

As others have stated, it’s fine to use your favourites, but just understand in addition to that there are some Pokemon that are honestly “required” in my opinion to be able to create space for those favourites to be used

[molten oasis]

huh, interesting

[bold geode]

I mean it spews out gas, the shit prolly flammable

[mighty stump]

Weezing gets great coverage

[molten oasis]

yea

[mighty stump]

Weezinh also never runs it

[molten oasis]

thunderbolt, shadow ball, flamethrower, heat wave

and no one runs it cuz why tf would you lol

[bold geode]

Just imagine it uses Flamethrower and all the Neutralizing Gas just catches fire

[craggy dagger]

too true xD

[bold geode]

Yeah
But Gouging Fire tho

[molten oasis]

incin just better

[bold geode]

Kitty is good

Kitty xD

[molten oasis]

i like the concept of gouging fire

i cannot pilot it lol

[mighty stump]

Its crazy popular

My NPAA match was a mirror lmao

[craggy dagger]

fire kitty good,
snow kitty also good
this is a kitty meta we’re living in :>

[bold geode]

UwU

[craggy dagger]

^OwO^<

[bold geode]

Oh God we've gone too far

[timber falcon]

very interesting things going on here... anyway should i go high jump kick over low kick on tsarena?

or is risk factor not it

[molten oasis]

[mighty stump]

Depends on the targets you’re intending on hitting lol

[timber falcon]

incin

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 727: Incineroar

Types

Fire/Dark

Abilities

Blaze, Intimidate (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

95/115/90/80/90/60

Total

530

Weight (Low Kick BP)

83kg (80 BP)

Height

1.8m

Introduced

Generation 7

Pre-evolution

Torracat

Egg groups

Field

Gender Ratio

M: 87.5%, F: 12.5%

Color

Red

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[timber falcon]

and bm

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 901: Ursaluna-Bloodmoon

Types

Ground/Normal

Abilities

Mind's Eye

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

113/70/120/135/65/52

Total

555

Weight (Low Kick BP)

333kg (120 BP)

Height

2.7m

Introduced

Generation 9

Base Species

Ursaluna

Egg groups

Field

Gender Ratio

M: 100%

Color

Brown

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[mighty stump]

HJK

[timber falcon]

okidoki

[bold geode]

HuJutsu Kaisen?

Oh Tofu I've been reading JJK manga

RN I'm where || the Gojo vs Sukuna fight starts ||

[dapper crag]

Move: Ice Hammer

Lowers the user's Speed by 1 stage.

Type

Ice

Category

Physical

Power

100

Accuracy

90

PP (max)

10 (16)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Makes contact.

Punch

Boosted by Iron Fist.

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[timber falcon]

Things only gonna get better

[cold ivy]

yo

can someone help me concoct some good strategies for double or single battles? i can lyk my team

[charred saddle]

preferably send your pokepaste and we usually just like give out advice or point out whats weird and not

and specify the format ur playing, most of us dont play singles

[near crag]

Is it worth it making ogerpon w have enough evs to tank a sludge bomb from lando?

[bold geode]

🙈🙉

[cold ivy]

okay

[cold ivy]

wait how do i make a poke paste

[nocturne holly]

monke see monke do

[cold ivy]

how do i check a pokemons ivs and stuff, i see the numbers for the hp and all that but i need the iv numbers

[wicked moon]

How do you like my casual 2v2s team:
Iron leaves
Miraidon
Eternatus
Lugia
Baxcalibur
Regilekei

It’s better than it seems

[mighty stump]

Im waiting on leaks lmao

[mighty stump]

Usually you can use those “IV calculators” but most of the time you can observe the final stat number and reverse calculate it

since IVs only@go from 0-31

And depending on the term used “No Good/Decent/Best etc”

[mighty stump]

Pins.

[bold geode]

Wym

[mighty stump]

This channel only really focuses on the main competitive aspects so there is no rating of non-relevant teams unfortunately

[mighty stump]

Next chapter

[bold geode]

Ah

I can't wait for || Hakari vs Kashimo || to be animated bro

[mighty stump]

Lol

JJK honestly is peak manga atm for me

[bold geode]

Bro is a fucking character

[mighty stump]

Its generational

Esp cause of the meme value

[bold geode]

The meme value you haven't seen since the Heian Era

[mighty stump]

You did it wrong

[bold geode]

I do everything wrong

I'm working on post btw

[mighty stump]

Nice

[bold geode]

Did I ever show you what EJC helped me with?

[shell sandal]

i thought of a new strat. Have urshifu attack your own tatsugiri do the calcs and make sure it lives with enough health for it to die the turn that commander activates. Use protect on tatsu so that no one kills it. Tera dragon dozo and bring wellspring for redirect

[bold geode]

I have had a lapse in my preparation

I don't have a dex photo for Ogerpon Wellspring

[charred saddle]

?? hit it enough to live enough then die the turn commander activates? u can only do it with toxic orb then. and its so damn complicated that u basically need 3 mon to pull it off. and even then they all got walled by amoonguss

[mighty stump]

Lol

[charred saddle]

just dont understand how u would execute it

and what do you gain from it

[mighty stump]

That’s just Perish Song Dozo but worse

[charred saddle]

dont the earlier reg have something similar to it? + flamigo costar

btw tofu, nasi hainam ato nasi uduk

[shell sandal]

then instead of ogerpon, bring taunt flutter mane 🤷‍♂️

[cold ivy]

https://pokepast.es/2b51e7dde999ca40

[charred saddle]

whats the held item?

is this doubles?

[cold ivy]

yeah, and i dont have items

[mighty stump]

hainam bro

[mighty stump]

When making pastes, i recommend creating the ideal version of the team, what you think, irregardless of the resources you have

[cold ivy]

well, i rlly dont know much comp stuff tbh

[mighty stump]

In that case, I don’t recommend immediately making your own team first, but instead using a rental that interests you

Also Pecharunt is illegal

Since Mythicals aren’t allowed to participate

[cold ivy]

ohh ok

[fluid wind]

what yall think about azuimarll

[bold geode]

Hey guys

#self_promotion NEW BLOGPOST FROM ME

As well as in #rental_teams

I promised Monke
I gave Monke

[mighty stump]

Its ok

[molten oasis]

New Rental is up, feel free to ask questions

[knotty mirage]

Is there any other good item for raging bolt other than assault vest ?

[cyan smelt]

calm mind leftovers

[minor panther]

is there anyway we can make archeops not bad

i just want my boy to be viable man

[lofty tartan]

I guess the first thing would be to make him legal in Gen 9

[minor panther]

true

[knotty mirage]

I mean what move slot should i replace for calm mind anyway my raging have thunder clap,thunder bolt,draco meteor,and protect and no i don't want to replace t bolt only having t clap as electric stab is mind games hell

[cyan smelt]

replace thunderclap then, prio-blockers shut you down

[knotty mirage]

But t clap is like the whole reason i use raging bolt to begin with

Like i probably will just use hand if raging doesn't have t clap

[cyan smelt]

i mean that set seems pretty good to me

some people run snarl or dragon pulse instead of draco but it's up to you

[knotty mirage]

I mean i can replace draco with another attacking move or should i just replace that for calm mind

But only having electric attack does sounds sucks with blood moon around

[cyan smelt]

depends if you want/need dragon stab or not

[knotty mirage]

Oh and lando

Screw this then i'm using booster energy

[cyan smelt]

yeah but ideally you won't have bolt out against lando or bm

[knotty mirage]

I want to use life orb but lando already have it for AV my rilla already have it too

[cyan smelt]

booster is good if you don't have any other mons that need it

[knotty mirage]

Yeah probably for the best just need to replace draco with dragon pulse then

[mighty stump]

Hold on

If youre using Booster just use Draco so you have a nuke

[mighty stump]

You trade Protect, most of the time

Unless you want to go double electric, which is terrible, or lose tbolt, and I hate the mindgames

[frank flare]

Does anyone have any tips for a doubles team electric gym. I have a decent build for singles but I have no strats in doubles

[mighty stump]

Well whatever it will be, it should probably include Raging Bolt

[real prairie]

are there any restrictions on paradox/legendaries?

[frank flare]

1 legend per team. And you can use a mon that isn’t of the type but it has to know a move that’s electric and you have to give it electric Tera

[tough idol]

Thunderbolt Fluttermane, Gholdengo

[karmic temple]

Nice new rentals we got @molten oasis @bold geode

[molten oasis]

Thank you

[bold geode]

Yup

[autumn vault]

Same imo

[near crag]

Is it worth it to make ogerpon w tank a sludge bomb from lando? Or the best route is to invest in Hp, and distribute the remaining evs on the reamining stats?

[bold geode]

You can make the calc, but it'll take quite a bit

[next stump]

I think you're better off just investing into Speed to hit 169 (170 preferably to outspeed stuff like Chi-Yu too) to threaten OHKOs onto Lando before they can move

You also have tera at your disposal to shed the weakness and get a boost, so sludge bomb all of a sudden does like 35%

[near crag]

thanks!

[molten oasis]

I like to hit 170 for ogerpons that are only outspeeding lando I

Which those are only 169

And there’s much more value in outspeeding and wiping lando i off the field than living a sludge bomb from it

[upbeat quail]

What’s the best tornados vgc build/ev spread? I plan to use it as a support set for multiple teams

[molten oasis]

Tornadus @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk

• Bleakwind Storm
• Tailwind
• Taunt/Protect
• Sunny Day/Rain Dance/Icy Wind

this should live Tera water surging strikes I believe

[mighty stump]

Rocky Helmet also good on it

[molten oasis]

This is one just in my box lol

I have no idea what the evs were meant for besides live shifu things

I don’t use torn

[autumn vault]

sitrus berry and sash is also decent

[upbeat quail]

I’ve seen some with a bit more bulk in spdef too

[autumn vault]

covert imo is the best item for torn

[molten oasis]

You could

It’s not living hits from bolt anytime soon

[mighty stump]

I'd also consider bold

[molten oasis]

I’ve never seen a torn live tbolt from bolt

[upbeat quail]

Tornadus: Rocky Helmet
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 212 HP / 172 Def / 4 SpA / 108 SpD / 12 Spe
Modest Nature

• Bleakwind Storm
• Tailwind
• Rain Dance
• Protect

Thoughts on this one?

[molten oasis]

That is probably fine

[mighty stump]

I just think Modest Torn is weird

[molten oasis]

What is that special defense for

[upbeat quail]

Idk I was just look at some teams from recent regionals

[mighty stump]

I like Timid w 52 in Spe to outspeed Adamant Urshifu +2

Hits 151

[molten oasis]

Interesting

I wonder if the hope was to live hits from bolt with that bulk

[upbeat quail]

I could see it living hits from bolt after getting hit with a snarl

[mighty stump]

20+ SpA Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 212 HP / 108 SpD Tornadus: 158-188 (87.2 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

on 1st bump

Its probaly Flutter related lol

[autumn vault]

i run 252+ bolt

[upbeat quail]

So ideally I’d just want to invest in HP, Def, and speed?

I get anxious making builds for Pokémon lol

[autumn vault]

252+ SpA Raging Bolt Thunderclap vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tornadus: 126-150 (67.7 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
For you people that are unhealthy for torn to survive a t-clap

[mighty stump]

Ideally

You have an idea of what you expect Torn to be living and not

Like if youre running Rocky Helmet

You want it to live Surging Strikes

[autumn vault]

252+ SpA Raging Bolt Thunderclap vs. 0 HP / 148 SpD Tornadus: 138-164 (89.6 - 106.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
good enough

[mighty stump]

If it's sash, you're just maximising offense

and you want your calcs to be relevant

[upbeat quail]

I’ll probably run covert cloak so I can soak fake outs and still set up tailwind

[autumn vault]

i might start to run 148 sp. def on torn

[mighty stump]

Y tho

Its a non-relevant calc, Raging Bolt has no incentive to click Thunderclap into Torn when it can click Thunderbolt

[autumn vault]

true

but when tornadus set up RD and TW then t-clap might be better (unless protect)

RD rain dance TW tailwind

[mighty stump]

That';s two turns for Raging Bolt to click Thunderbolt

and it eats Bleakwind freely

[upbeat quail]

So on a covert cloak tornadus what’s a good spread?

[mighty stump]

Tornadus @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Def / 52 Spe
Timid Nature

I just use this

Theres a lot of good spreads, its just about being aware of what you're trying to live and what it's trying to do

Drago's is fine

The one you found is fine

This one just speed creeps and is physically bulky for Urshifu

[molten oasis]

I like tofus in concept

Speed creeping the shifus (at adamant) seems relevant

[autumn vault]

252+ SpA Raging Bolt Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tornadus: 162-192 (87 - 103.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Huh Woodtofu really is right on clicking T-Bolt on torn instead of T-Clap

[molten oasis]

well, it is cuz I haven’t seen a shifu run jolly in a minute

[molten oasis]

Pfff lmao

I love raging bolt, absolute menace to shifu and torn

[autumn vault]

mine is physically bulky and with CM it just claps (pun intended) them

[molten oasis]

True, we love bolt

[autumn vault]

bolt will not die just because of miraidon

[molten oasis]

I think bolt will be good for teams that don’t run miraidon

Ik I’ll use it, I’m running Zac

[autumn vault]

i won't use neither because i will be busy trying to find a way to make zekrom a beast

my favourite legend will not be replaced

[molten oasis]

Good luck lol

[autumn vault]

Zekrom also gets D-Dance so with follow me support it can set it up freely and then murder mirai and bolt to assert dominance

[molten oasis]

Tf

Oh with follow me support

I though yiu said it had follow me lol

Hearthflame+zekrom could be decent then

[autumn vault]

Why would a zekrom have follow me?!

[molten oasis]

I mean

Ogerpon has follow me for some reason

For some fucking reason

They decided “yes let’s give the already very strong Mon follow me”

[autumn vault]

I mean, Ogerpon meta is better than Urshifu meta

lets be honest

[molten oasis]

Yea cuz it’s not tornshifu every team

I like this format a lot

It’s very flexible

[autumn vault]

i honestly am fine with tornshifu existing because it gives me the excuse to clap them with bolt

[molten oasis]

Mhmm

[autumn vault]

bolt is on 70% of my teams

[mighty stump]

They should have given Ogerpon a Follow Me + Swords Dance + Iron Defense move

Imo

[molten oasis]

Bolt has been on all my teams

[molten oasis]

Of course, bring it to truly broken standards

[autumn vault]

Honestly having I-defense would literally make -100% sense (unless rock ogerpon but it applies to all 4)

[molten oasis]

Would it tho

[autumn vault]

• is negative

the -

not the dot

[molten oasis]

Oh lol

[mighty stump]

I thinkk we should give Ogerpon an Omniboost

Everytime it puts on its mask

[molten oasis]

I’m glad ogerpon exists tho, it’s a nice Mon I think really heavily rewards good playing

[autumn vault]

and while we are at that, give it charm but it works 100% of the time because ogerpon is a cute child

[mighty stump]

Also i think we should let Ogerpon change masks using this Spell Card

[molten oasis]

And also ogerpon is just a cool Mon

[molten oasis]

So just let it Ohko something?

[autumn vault]

also let's give it a move that maxes it's defense and special defense by +6 sacrificing half of it's health (it wont take damage after this move is use because +6 is +6)

[molten oasis]

And then change mask forms

[bold geode]

Let's also give it a OHKO move that's 100% accurate

[autumn vault]

if we are doing that lets buff it's speed by 100 points (210 speed)

[molten oasis]

Can’t forget to give it 200 in both defense stats too

[autumn vault]

and 420 attack

let's make it's BST higher than Eternamax Eternatus

[molten oasis]

Mhmm

[mighty stump]

https://liberty-note.com/2024/02/26/tc17-top16-sumio/ wack japanese team

Covert Cloak Raging Bolt

[molten oasis]

Double genie???

STELLAR BOLT???

[autumn vault]

i ran lando-T and Torn a lot in reg E so it's familiar to me

[molten oasis]

This is thundy torn

[autumn vault]

still double genies

[mighty stump]

Lando-T != Thundurus-I though

[charred saddle]

i mean thundy does have a util support + the sp atk is quite nice hmm

the thundy incarnate is also prankster right?

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 642: Thundurus

Types

Electric/Flying

Abilities

Prankster, Defiant (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

79/115/70/125/80/111

Total

580

Other Formes

Thundurus-Therian

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[charred saddle]

oh right it can have defiant

[autumn vault]

Defiant is shit for thund

[craggy dagger]

mhm-

[mighty stump]

RIP Gen 8 Thundy

RIP World Champion Thundurus

[craggy dagger]

Defiant thundy was kinda good in swsh

[charred saddle]

i only remember swsh runs defiant for incin

[craggy dagger]

yeah

[mighty stump]

It was so based lmao

[charred saddle]

well thundy therian is quite interesting tho

[craggy dagger]

it’s just like how we run defiant gambit/ape for incin

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 642: Thundurus-Therian

Types

Electric/Flying

Abilities

Volt Absorb

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

79/105/70/145/80/101

Total

580

Base Species

Thundurus

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[charred saddle]

145 sp atk

[craggy dagger]

highest possible SpA base stat in this regulation :>

shared with chandelure and a few others

[mighty stump]

Iron Moth

[autumn vault]

Chandelure is a goat unlike the others

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 994: Iron Moth

Types

Fire/Poison

Abilities

Quark Drive

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

80/70/60/140/110/110

Total

570

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[charred saddle]

never realized it was that high interesting

[craggy dagger]

sysbot broken xD
it’s 145 not 140

[mighty stump]

No im stupid

I misremembered

Lol

Its Spectrier

[craggy dagger]

Owh-

[mighty stump]

That was the third mon

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 897: Spectrier

Type

Ghost

Abilities

Grim Neigh

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

100/65/60/145/80/130

Total

580

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[autumn vault]

^

it is true

[craggy dagger]

rampardos casually taking the highest possible base atk stat in this regulation

165 i think?

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 409: Rampardos

Type

Rock

Abilities

Mold Breaker, Sheer Force (Hidden)

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

97/165/60/65/50/58

Total

495

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[autumn vault]

yes

[mighty stump]

ok but Regirock

[autumn vault]

regirock has 200 defense

regice has 200 sp. def

regieleki 200 speed

[mighty stump]

Sometimes I think about how Regidrago has base 200 HP

[autumn vault]

regidrago's hp is not higher than Zygarde Complete Form

ironically

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 718: Zygarde-Complete

Types

Dragon/Ground

Abilities

Power Construct

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

216/100/121/91/95/85

Total

708

Base Species

Zygarde

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[craggy dagger]

okay wtf are those stats

too bad it’s 4x weak to ice

[mighty stump]

I used to run Zygarde with Comfey

Its great

[mighty stump]

It can tank Ice moves

Definitely

[autumn vault]

216 hp is no joke

[craggy dagger]

:0

[mighty stump]

Especially with Dynamax

Lmaoo

[craggy dagger]

yeah that’s fair-
but let’s talk about base 255 HP

[mighty stump]

Shit was so based

[autumn vault]

you gave me PTSD from Dmax adventures Zygarde (defeated it in 2 runs, in the 2nd i was 1 life away from not getting it)

[molten oasis]

Isn’t zygarde like

Stupid bulky

[dapper crag]

Pokémon No. 718: Zygarde-Complete

Types

Dragon/Ground

Abilities

Power Construct

HP/Atk/Def/SpA/SpD/Spe

216/100/121/91/95/85

Total

708

Base Species

Zygarde

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[mighty stump]

Yes

Lol

[autumn vault]

iirc you need to be half hp to activate complete form so the healing is pretty good for it even if it naturally gets 25% of it's health back

[craggy dagger]

yeah-

[molten oasis]

What the fuck

[mighty stump]

Its Half HP to then double your HP effectively

[molten oasis]

Yeesh

[mighty stump]

And when you heal iirc you still retain Complete-forme

[molten oasis]

That sounds, really annoying

[autumn vault]

too bad zacian murders it instantly

[craggy dagger]

all i remember when i was playing swsh was i had max lapras and yveltal-

[autumn vault]

Yveltal was super annoying in Dmax adventures (took me 7 runs to beat it)

[molten oasis]

See if uh, I’d it was in the game zygarde could Tera

[craggy dagger]

aurora veil was fun-
and have perish in the back

[mighty stump]

+1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zygarde-Complete: 416-492 (65.4 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

[molten oasis]

Funnily enough Zac gets to use the gimmick this time

[mighty stump]

Not even close

[craggy dagger]

what the fuck-

[charred saddle]

cough cough ruination to zygarde

[molten oasis]

High hp funny

[mighty stump]

Coil sets

[autumn vault]

i mean before it transforms

not complete form itself

[mighty stump]

If you Ruination a standard Zygarde you just trigger the transformation immediately kekw

[molten oasis]

Can’t wait to use Tera water/steel zacian

[mighty stump]

Coil + Thousand Arrows was so based oml

[charred saddle]

yes thats what i mean

trigger it manually

TA is damn annoying haha

[dapper crag]

Move: Thousand Arrows

This move can hit airborne Pokemon, which includes Flying-type Pokemon, Pokemon with the Levitate Ability, Pokemon holding an Air Balloon, and Pokemon under the effect of Magnet Rise or Telekinesis. If the target is a Flying type and is not already grounded, this move deals neutral damage regardless of its other type(s). This move can hit a target using Bounce, Fly, or Sky Drop. If this move hits a target under the effect of Bounce, Fly, Magnet Rise, or Telekinesis, the effect ends. If the target is a Flying type that has not used Roost this turn or a Pokemon with the Levitate Ability, it loses its immunity to Ground-type attacks and the Arena Trap Ability as long as it remains active. During the effect, Magnet Rise fails for the target and Telekinesis fails against the target.

Type

Ground

Category

Physical

Power

90

Accuracy

100

PP (max)

10 (16)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Does not make contact.

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[craggy dagger]

coil arrows :>

[charred saddle]

hitting flying is funny

thundy lol

[molten oasis]

So, it just ignores flying stuff

[craggy dagger]

it’s a gravity ground type move pretty much

[charred saddle]

yes

[molten oasis]

That’s, damn

[autumn vault]

another reason why it is so hard to take down in DMAX adventures

[mighty stump]

It used to have another based move

called

[dapper crag]

Move: Thousand Waves

Prevents the target from switching out. The target can still switch out if it is holding Shed Shell or uses Baton Pass, Flip Turn, Parting Shot, Teleport, U-turn, or Volt Switch. If the target leaves the field using Baton Pass, the replacement will remain trapped. The effect ends if the user leaves the field.

Type

Ground

Category

Physical

Power

90

Accuracy

100

PP (max)

10 (16)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Does not make contact.

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[molten oasis]

What if it got dragon energy

[mighty stump]

100% accurate trapping

oml

[molten oasis]

What

[mighty stump]

we love trapping

[autumn vault]

Zygarde is stupid

[molten oasis]

That’s nuts

[mighty stump]

It didnt get it in gen 8

[molten oasis]

Prob for the best

[autumn vault]

definetely

[craggy dagger]

you remember core enforcer

[dapper crag]

Move: Core Enforcer

If the user moves after the target, the target's Ability is rendered ineffective as long as it remains active. If the target uses Baton Pass, the replacement will remain under this effect. If the target's Ability is As One, Battle Bond, Comatose, Disguise, Gulp Missile, Ice Face, Multitype, Power Construct, RKS System, Schooling, Shields Down, Stance Change, Tera Shift, Zen Mode, or Zero to Hero, this effect does not happen, and receiving the effect through Baton Pass ends the effect immediately.

Type

Dragon

Category

Special

Power

100

Accuracy

100

PP (max)

10 (16)

Move Flags

​

Mirror

Copied by Mirror Move.

Contact

Does not make contact.

SableyeBot version 4.25.1

[craggy dagger]

it just says fuck you to abilities if zygarde moves last

[autumn vault]

it is a special attack so it wasn't as bad but 91 sp. attack was still pretty good

100 attack exists with coil and ddance

[craggy dagger]

iirc core enforcer was used as util rather than damage

despite being base 100 power

[autumn vault]

i will go see series 12 on swsh's comp scene and see how much usage did Zygarde get

0.14%

[craggy dagger]

yeah.
there were def better options

[molten oasis]

Yea

zacian

[autumn vault]

did you forget this calc?

also with sash it can get complete form super easily

[molten oasis]

I wasn’t comparing

I’m saying zacian was a better Pokémon

[autumn vault]

they literally play differently

zacian is a sweeper while Z was a setup mon to sweep later on in thee match

[molten oasis]

Ok, in swsh restricted would you chose zygarde or zacian to win

[craggy dagger]

that’s true though-
most of swsh meta was zacian, rilla, incin, lando-T (w/ max airstream)

[autumn vault]

i forgot the restricted legend limit of 1/2 (depending on format)

[molten oasis]

Yep

[craggy dagger]

yeah

[molten oasis]

The average person would pick zacian

[autumn vault]

if i played swsh competitive i would have played gigas + weezing at it's prime

[molten oasis]

Because zacian is like our fluttermane

It’s just, good lmao

[craggy dagger]

i’m still on copium life orb pao-

[molten oasis]

But Zac was very broken, flutter is broken but not like, broken

[autumn vault]

flutter will die of usage in restricted format ngl

[molten oasis]

Nope

[autumn vault]

Calyrex shadow is flutter but better

[molten oasis]

No it won’t

Flutter is literally too good to just disappear

[craggy dagger]

yeah with so many other tools flutter will go down a little-
at least early reg but i know that proto speed flutter will def be a counter against shadow

[mighty stump]

Swords Dance Chien-Pao

[molten oasis]

unfortunately

Flutter can live astral barrage

[autumn vault]

not with chi-yu

[mighty stump]

When good Pokemon arrive

It improves the current good Pokemon cause they can be ran together

Lol

[molten oasis]

Flutter also good into miraidon and koraidon

[craggy dagger]

IT CAN????

[molten oasis]

And with koraidon

[mighty stump]

You'd be foolish to think Booster Spe Flutter Mane wouldn't be next to a Calyrex as well

[molten oasis]

Tofu showed me a calc

[autumn vault]

252 SpA Beads of Ruin Calyrex-Shadow Astral Barrage vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Flutter Mane: 156-186 (96.2 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

[mighty stump]

Theres some with rolls

[craggy dagger]

omg my girl is actually bulky xD

[molten oasis]

It’s 135 special defense

[mighty stump]

And my god spread one can live decently enough

[autumn vault]

so yes and no

[mighty stump]

I mean

You're adding modifiers to an already SE move lol

[autumn vault]

yes it can survive and no it can't in some cases like the calc i mentioned

[mighty stump]

If I added AV to Flutter Mane I can live

[molten oasis]

Mhmm

[mighty stump]

So like

[molten oasis]

Lmfao, av flutter meta

[craggy dagger]

owh-
so all those times i’m seeing flutter die is cause of physical moves-

[molten oasis]

Usually it dies to physical moves

[mighty stump]

You joke but CM Flutter exists

[autumn vault]

it still has to worry about zacian

[molten oasis]

True, Wolfe win a regional with it

[molten oasis]

Pair it with chi yu, what does zacian do then

[mighty stump]

Hi guys reminder that just because good Pokemon exist doesn't mean existing good Pokemon stop being good

[molten oasis]

Or incin

[craggy dagger]

zaci who?

it’s gonna be fked by incin imo-
since it’s ability is once per battle

[autumn vault]

zacian murders mane and outspeeds it (assuming no booster speed)

[molten oasis]

Or Tera water

[molten oasis]

Ehhhhhhh, I mean

We already deal with a lot of incin

[craggy dagger]

there’s follow me sd though

[mighty stump]

No Zacian actually took a hit cause of that though

[molten oasis]

I doubt that’ll kill zacian

[mighty stump]

But wait

Gouging Fire x Zacian-C

[molten oasis]

And yes wellspring zacian

[mighty stump]

Eazy

[craggy dagger]

no i’m saying the attack boost that zacian gets from its ability

[molten oasis]

Let me and tofu cook

[craggy dagger]

either fire howl or follow me pon and sd zacian

[molten oasis]

We just revert the intim drops

[mighty stump]

While you all dream up your HO teams

[autumn vault]

+1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Flutter Mane: 350-414 (216 - 255.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Flutter Mane: 159-187 (98.1 - 115.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

[mighty stump]

I'm gonna make more teams that suffer

[craggy dagger]

what’s that xD
all i do is slap on cool pokemon

[molten oasis]

Imma be the balance enthusiast

cuz balance is good and won’t ever go away

[craggy dagger]

hence why 90% of the time i’m running off meta pokemon

[molten oasis]

Wellspring balance also just, never goes away

[mighty stump]

Did you see my new post

[molten oasis]

Imo, wellspring is so good

[craggy dagger]

owh-
i don’t think i have?

[molten oasis]

His post is all niche stuff

Pretty cool stuff

[mighty stump]

Speaking of

A member of my NPAA team gave me the event shiny Gapdos

[craggy dagger]

:0

[molten oasis]

…

Why you tell me this

I hunted for that for a week and got nothing Lmao

(I’m not asking for it)

[dapper crag]

im gonna create a stall team with tropius

[molten oasis]

I already posted the rental there’s like, 0 point lol

[craggy dagger]

i have a big trading chip if you want a shiny gapdos-