just like me, I've got 3 weeks of vacation and I legit don't know what to do
#competitive_discussion
dapper crag
strange vine
I'ma op
molten oasis
Like I do this as a hobby cuz I enjoy it but it I was younger id be more excited about things like this
willow vault
Just lots of work, and bills, etc.
I’m only partial adult, because university is like a baby step into adulthood, it’s just a bit simpler
molten oasis
I’m only partial adult, because university is like a baby step into adulthood, i...
I’m on my way there
January yaaay
molten oasis
Already enrolled at Utah Valley U
willow vault
Oh do you just start in January
molten oasis
Just signing up classes and financial aid and shit
willow vault
Oh alright
nocturne holly
just like me, I've got 3 weeks of vacation and I legit don't know what to do
doesnt help that i dont have any hobbies
willow vault
Uni in England started like 7 weeks ago, it feels so weird it’s been that long since I’ve been home
nocturne holly
im kinda lifeless
molten oasis
doesnt help that i dont have any hobbies
Pokémon is a hobby
willow vault
Maybe try table tennis, I find it fun
nocturne holly
but those two can only take me so far
willow vault
other than soccer
Then keep going
nocturne holly
Maybe try table tennis, I find it fun
house isnt big enough, thought of that multiple times
molten oasis
Gaming all around is a hobby for me
willow vault
Same
molten oasis
Pokémon is just, more of a hobby
nocturne holly
my pc is really shit
willow vault
I’m just a nerd that enjoys maths
nocturne holly
like i cant even update to windoes 11 lmao
molten oasis
Imagine having a computer LOL
nocturne holly
I’m just a nerd that enjoys maths
same fr
molten oasis
I have done
nocturne holly
done what
molten oasis
All vgc stuff on a iPhone and switch
willow vault
That’s why I’m willing to build teams even if they aren’t perfect, makes me feel more useful in the community
dapper crag
doesnt help that i dont have any hobbies
outside of gym, pokemon and riding my bike it's hella boring rn
I need a date so badly
weary steeple
What determines which lead lead will get their weather off first? Like stg I always get screwed over with that
nocturne holly
same fr
molten oasis
Maybe a perfect team for you, but not like in general
weary steeple
Is it speed?
nocturne holly
i wanna get into gym so fucking bad
molten oasis
What determines which lead lead will get their weather off first? Like stg I alw...
Whoever is slower gets weather
weary steeple
Noice
nocturne holly
but alas i dont have a car or anything
willow vault
Neither
weary steeple
Makes sense
molten oasis
I need a date so badly
Do you have rizz?
willow vault
Terrified of driving
dapper crag
Do you have rizz?
rizz ?
molten oasis
…
nocturne holly
going to the gym sounds pretty fun ngl
molten oasis
How do we tell him
molten oasis
Rizz is gen z attractiveness terminology ig
dapper crag
lol I'm not gen z
molten oasis
Makes sense you wouldn’t know the
willow vault
Rizz is gen z attractiveness terminology ig
I’m gen z and I don’t get it either
nocturne holly
boomer smh
dapper crag
If I get on a dating app it shouldn't be too long
molten oasis
Smh
nocturne holly
dating appp??
molten oasis
You didn’t know that was a thing?
nocturne holly
ik but why
dapper crag
Been working 55 hours weeks for 10 months straight
dapper crag
I had not much time to devote into dating right
nocturne holly
they should make a gen z dating app called rizz
molten oasis
I can’t drive sooo, no dating for me
nocturne holly
Been working 55 hours weeks for 10 months straight
damn thats actually crazy
55 hour weeks is insane
what do you work as
dapper crag
damn thats actually crazy
welcome to being an ER nurse in an understaffed hospital facility
molten oasis
Oof
dapper crag
12 hours shift 5 times a week pretty consistently
nocturne holly
dude nurses do so much tho
dapper crag
I'm not missing out on thirst pic to put on a dating profile, just no time to invest
molten oasis
I would but I’m still at work
nocturne holly
L
willow vault
Do you wanna learn something from your best of 3, because I’m willing to play I’ll just lose very badly
nocturne holly
Do you wanna learn something from your best of 3, because I’m willing to play I’...
im down
user?
nocturne holly
gg
willow vault
ggs
willow vault
It’s so good
Yeah, annoyingly I changed Iron Hands Tera type to water before the matchup from grass
nocturne holly
i didnt play well against flutter
molten oasis
flutter really fucked me over
Fluttermane moment
willow vault
I’m down to play again
nocturne holly
i was gambling whether to tera dengo
tbh i think that play shouldve been gleam wild charge
willow vault
I think shadow ball killed from there, even with Tera
willow vault
Yeah
molten oasis
Like that seems somewhat excessive
charred saddle
thats a very bulky mane
molten oasis
Also, you NEED to hit 179 on mane, underspending oger is so bad
willow vault
I copied it some tournament set so I’m not sure the exact reasons
molten oasis
oh wait irs booster speed
charred saddle
i wouldnt say its bad, its a speed mane
molten oasis
charred saddle
not a Spa booster
willow vault
It’s alright
willow vault
Yeah
nocturne holly
wanna go again?
willow vault
Your amoongus, was by far the toughest thing, it caused for some difficult decisions
molten oasis
Bruh we have been dead at work for 30 minutes
willow vault
Wrong team
molten oasis
This sucks
willow vault
Can you remake?
nocturne holly
Bruh we have been dead at work for 30 minutes
oof
willow vault
Only change is Iron Hands Tera so your aware
nocturne holly
conserving your tera for flutter is annoying me so much lmao
willow vault
It’s the smart play
nocturne holly
it is
willow vault
gg
nocturne holly
didnt click rage powder by accident
willow vault
We’re you supposed to rage powder
nocturne holly
yea
nocturne holly
you had flutter in the back right?
willow vault
Yep
nocturne holly
alr ggs
willow vault
Game was almost over after the Lando 1 turn of sleep
willow vault
Safe play for you was always to rage powder with amoongus in case of sleep turns
Only problem for you was that I had guaranteed tailwind and you no longer could put up tailwind
nocturne holly
Yea I fucking misclickee
willow vault
2 different times not clicking rage powder lost you the game but it was fun none the less
nocturne holly
dude once I ohkoed landot i would swept
You’d bring in torn, I’d switch into shifu and make it rain would ohko torn
Protect, switch into amoonguss
dengo is god level
willow vault
Maybe, but you’d die to flutter
nocturne holly
Didn’t use him enough
You played well
Conserving flutter was really nice
nocturne holly
Maybe, but you’d die to flutter
Amoonguss would’ve rage powdered
willow vault
Thanks dude
willow vault
Amoonguss would’ve rage powdered
He failed at that twice though
nocturne holly
Bout to say
willow vault
Only joking, you played well if you used dengo + amoongus you definitely could have won
I mean but that’s important to learn with your team because flutter can cause enormous damage
nocturne holly
Yea
flutter is annoying with that coverage
I need a better flutter answer tbh
maybe harc
willow vault
Before changing the team just try with gholdengo + amoongus, it was really quite difficult to navigate around
smoky hawk
Donald Smith is at my local
He has multiple top 8s in regionals, some top 4s
Apparently he flew in because he has a friend here. I lost to him. 2-1 now
smoky hawk
Donald is a solid player
Nope he's using roaring moon, rillaboom, heatran, urshifu, ninetales, and glaceon
A friend gave him that team last night
Michael Zhang
I predicted his roaring moon poison tera and OHKOd with stomping tantrum. Somehow he brought it back anyway
smoky hawk
There were 18 people
I ran into a tatsugiri with ability shield and my weezing couldn't stop the commander
So that was interesting
Only could win because I brought regieleki
lofty tartan
I've been doing some Weezing/Eleki testing recently myself 
Not sold on it entirely yet - just figured I'd check it before my MSS on the 2nd
next stump
I honestly think rolling up with shit like that to locals is usually a good call
no one is prepped for it and its usually BO1 swiss
lofty tartan
Weezing is pretty oppressive in almost any shell, honestly.
next stump
so you know your lines and they dont
lofty tartan
Yeah I agree.
My roommate is like on the fence between Regidrago and Weezing right now and I'm sorta expressing to him that you have more lines than your opponent with Weezing, because you're in control of Gas and they're more subject to it.
dapper crag
SableyeBot version 4.24.2
nocturne holly
N gas doesn’t affect regenerator right
dapper crag
SableyeBot version 4.24.2
weary steeple
so you know your lines and they dont
What are lines?
next stump
What are lines?
basically another phrase for describing your gameplan into opponents
nocturne holly
My line into gambit is tailwind amoonguss ☺️
static ice
Anyone know that best tera type for regular Luna for purely defensive coverage purposes?
frigid gale
Anyone know that best tera type for regular Luna for purely defensive coverage p...
Ghost could be good, water or grass also might be useful in certain scenarios
dull ibex
oh my god did people copy bucketeer LMAO
orchid falcon
My line is using Tera Hearthflame ogerpon in tailwind TO BEAT THE EVERLASTING CRAP OUT OF MY OPPENENTS
frigid gale
I mean, hey, if it works, it works
orchid falcon
also was alremie good in comp back in gen 8?
dull ibex
it was niche at best imo
orchid falcon
like does it get access to follow me?
orchid falcon
it was niche at best imo
basically indeedee?
frigid gale
Not really, it was useful on a few team constructions
orchid falcon
i bet it will change
frigid gale
Indeedee-F is great
next stump
holy shit the new big 6 comps are annoying as fuck to play against when the player is good
dull ibex
it will not change
orchid falcon
all pokemon changed cuz of tera
frigid gale
The F is for Fantastic
dull ibex
the bad pokemon stayed bad tbh
next stump
also classic wolfe effect there are a million weezing teams on ladder today
dull ibex
there is not alot of mon that were bad in gen 8 that are suddenly good
dull ibex
eleki
dull ibex
not surprising tbh
next stump
losing rocks was huge
dull ibex
that gimmick only worked with how bonkers dmax was
frigid gale
Coal walked so dondozo could run 🏃♂️
frigid gale
Nah
dull ibex
in gen 8? no it was semi common
orchid falcon
oh that was OU Smogon
orchid falcon
in gen 8? no it was semi common
nah i mean gen 9
dull ibex
its dogcrap in gen 9
orchid falcon
with bolt beam tera blast
frigid gale
OU? Never heard of her
next stump
tera ice
orchid falcon
with tera blast
frigid gale
Specs electroball is where it's at
dull ibex
tera ice blast isnt that good tbh
I thought it would be much more oppressive then it is
next stump
in singles it was pretty oppressive
frigid gale
It doesn't work, but that doesn't mean I won't try it again
dull ibex
that's because singles is a hellscape
next stump
Specs electroball is where it's at
bring back a format where I can play electroball Kilowattrel and not be griefing
dull ibex
bring back a format where I can play electroball Kilowattrel and not be griefing
no, suffer (joke)
frigid gale
Can't play singles, my pokemon get lonely out on the field without a partner
dull ibex
holy shit the new big 6 comps are annoying as fuck to play against when the play...
what are the big 6 comp this format
frigid gale
Incineroar
dull ibex
im a competent player looking to abuse meta
dull ibex
Incineroar
I said this format
lofty tartan
also classic wolfe effect there are a million weezing teams on ladder today
Noooo - it's happened 
I knew it
dull ibex
its the youtuber effect it happens in every game ever
its kind of hilarious to dunk on the bad players
nocturne holly
Hate how n gas suppresses good as gold
lofty tartan
I've had a few mirrors up until this point and they're not too bad to navigate, honestly.
If they take Weezing then they're making a mistake 🤷
nocturne holly
Petition to make make it rain 130 bp, raises sp atk by two stages
dull ibex
why do you hate fun
nocturne holly
LO dengo is so fun
dull ibex
waiting for the tea on the big six
nocturne holly
Big 6 this format?
next stump
what are the big 6 comp this format
moon/heatran/hands/lando/amoonguss/flutter
dull ibex
oh moon balance
next stump
sometimes you’ll see Oger-W > Amoonguss
nocturne holly
Moon?
dull ibex
Roaring moon has been great all of regulation E
lofty tartan
Yeah I'm a big fan
lofty tartan
nocturne holly
I’m running moon balance ☺️
next stump
he is the greatest balance player of all time
dull ibex
Roarin 20s is my version of moon balance
dull ibex
he is the greatest balance player of all time
ummmm actually wolfe is because he says Wideo
i've been trying to wrap my head around balance tbh
lofty tartan
I've just been playing Weezing Balance for the last like month and a half or something
nocturne holly
ummmm actually wolfe is because he says Wideo
wOrLd ChAmP dIfFeReNcE
dull ibex
I was running this to great success
I dont have access to glide on ogerpon so I could just revise the team
nocturne holly
My moon balance 😊 https://pokepast.es/b62162f29cdb43e2
HOLY SHIT CHIPOLTE BURRITOS ARE HEAVY WTF
dull ibex
what does amoongus bring over wellspring?
nocturne holly
dengo support
next stump
bro i feel so bad for anyone who plays in the same locals as Chuppa he has won 4 in a row
nocturne holly
Fr
dull ibex
alright ill just have to ping dillion or reply to him so people know im asking him lmao
dull ibex
bro i feel so bad for anyone who plays in the same locals as Chuppa he has won 4...
they should quake
next stump
I think they prefer Amoonguss because it matches up better into Scarf Urshifu (Ogerpon-W can take heavy damage from stuff like U-Turn/CC) and it also just is a better pivot option to eat up attacks
dull ibex
🤔 alright ill try it
next stump
way less offense but more repositioning potential and defensive tools
lofty tartan
bro i feel so bad for anyone who plays in the same locals as Chuppa he has won 4...
Well unfortunately for me, he recently came up to Manchester, NH for a showdown, and that's not far from where I'm going to a showdown on the 2nd
Likelihood of running into Chuppa is actually high
next stump
hopefully he wins 6 by then so that he is capped out and has no reason to travel LOL
lofty tartan
Please 
It's like 32 player cap so dunno if it filled before he got in or not - it's the first local I've caught wind of in my state.
eternal kiln
bro i feel so bad for anyone who plays in the same locals as Chuppa he has won 4...
alright time to fly over there and show him whats up
dull ibex
who do yall think is the best vgc player ever?
lofty tartan
I don't think any one player is best overall. They all have highs and lows.
eternal kiln
Yeah but you can also say the same for the GOATs in Football/Basketball/etc
dull ibex
boxing as well
lofty tartan
I think it's a lot more difficult to compare to sports with little to no variance, as well
RNG doesn't drive exchanges in boxing, for example
dull ibex
pokemon is not as rng heavy as people make it out to be tbh
I don't think that matters to the discussion in all honestly
lofty tartan
I'm not saying it's super RNG heavy
I'm saying boxing has no RNG
lofty tartan
Because you're not subject to things like numbers or luck.
next stump
resume wise it has to be Wolfe I think
dull ibex
so because on very small few occasions in high level play it goes down to rng there can't be a discussion for goat?
lofty tartan
That's... not even remotely what I said lol
next stump
best right now is probably Chuppa, Riley Factura, or Paul Chua
dull ibex
resume wise it has to be Wolfe I think
this is my vote, partially because his content but I love his plays as well
eternal kiln
best right now is probably Chuppa, Riley Factura, or Paul Chua
MBD?
next stump
who’s MBD i’m blanking lol
dull ibex
I think it's a lot more difficult to compare to sports with little to no varianc...
then what does this imply?
eternal kiln
MichaelDerBeste
next stump
oooo he’s good
dull ibex
WOlfe
eternal kiln
I think hes the best rn honestly lol
balmy glen
Michael Der Beste aka Michael Kersche
next stump
but I didn’t see him at regionals in EU yet (on stream at least)
balmy glen
but I didn’t see him at regionals in EU yet (on stream at least)
He quals through online tours lol
next stump
2nd in worlds is hard to argue with though
dull ibex
Tang is phenomenal too the little tourney i watch
dude unironically some of the junior players are goated
lofty tartan
There's never like "Oh my left hook has a raw 10% chance to miss". The only thing outside of your control is the execution of your opponent. It's much more fair to compare VGC to something with a somewhat comparable level of variance rather than something physically demanding as well as 100% based on skill and execution
dull ibex
I watch juniors earlier this year the kids were making WILDLY intricate plays
lofty tartan
It's a personal opinion lol
dull ibex
we don't really have anything else like pokemon that has a comp scene on that level
Pokemon is the only RPG I can think of with a comp scene tbh
lofty tartan
TCG has a comparable level of variance, I think.
lofty tartan
It's all able to be mitigated.
Either by controlling how many of one thing is in your deck, multiple ways to find them, etc.
And there's also a high level of skill and execution to couple with it
When you talk 60 cards in a deck, up to four of one single card, that's all statistics and probability.
The variance is mostly luck of the draw 🤷
Not saying you can't have a discussion about goated players in any capacity, though.
And I'm sorry if I made it seem that way 
(also personally Nick Navarre has had some pretty insane showings in the past year - I think he's definitely high up there - I think I spelled his last name right)
Like I really don't wanna match up against him anytime soon 
dull ibex
fair
keen karma
who’s MBD i’m blanking lol
Isnt that you
eternal kiln
oops its MDB lol
frigid gale
Who do y'all think is the best player who hasn't won a major event yet?
frigid gale
Chuppa Cross is out of the running with his recent regional victory lol
Emilio Forbes comes to mind
next stump
has he never won a regional???
frigid gale
Oh maybe he has
next stump
wait he won Fresno earlier this year
frigid gale
Lol I forgot about that
next stump
has Jeudy Azarelli won a regional or just gotten a bunch of tops
frigid gale
I mean I think he did win us nationals once
next stump
I wish there was some kind of up to date list lol
dapper crag
has Jeudy Azarelli won a regional or just gotten a bunch of tops
2nd place at 2014 Worlds vs Sejun Park
That should count as something no
frigid gale
Right
dapper crag
2nd place at Worlds is worth more than winning any Regionals in my head
next stump
this is what his coaching graphic says
I feel like it would say regional champion
so he would be my vote for best player to not win a major event
frigid gale
Huh there you go, ig
next stump
or like… Aurelien Soula from Europe (I don’t think he’s win anything)
he’s crazy good
frigid gale
Oui
frigid gale
Yes, for sure
dapper crag
I'm happy making high seeding in MB in my 1st full month of competing on ladder at it stands
frigid gale
I am dogshit at this game, idk about you guys
dapper crag
If I can finish top 1000 this month I'll be more then happy
dull ibex
do we have a paste for that moon balance team? wanna know heatran spread
frigid gale
I mean, heatran usually is just max bulk and SpA
dull ibex
not in tournament settings I imagine
dapper crag
Unless you speedcreep enemy Heatran they're often not largely invested in speed
Mine has 28 EVs and that's it
dull ibex
maybe just stick to mine then probably
Heatran @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 50
Tera Type: grass
EVs: 204 HP / 76 Def / 100 SpA / 60 SpD / 68 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Protect
dapper crag
I used to run it a bit faster but it wasn't doing anything
68 gives you no positive breakpoint in the current meta
dull ibex
its whatever
frigid gale
On certain comps you do see considerable speed investment, usually to outspeed things in tailwind
dapper crag
On certain comps you do see considerable speed investment, usually to outspeed t...
Munchstats gives no spread with more than 52 speed EVs, often not invested at all or simply 4
so a third of Heatran (all spreads represented) run nothing higher than 52 speed EVs. So you need a specific calc you want to outrun to justify investing anything higher I'd assume
With the insane bulk it has, it can take most hits and retaliate with insane damage. I love tran.
dull ibex
Heatran @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 204 HP / 36 Def / 156 SpA / 20 SpD / 92 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Protect
have this one as well
nocturne holly
I watch juniors earlier this year the kids were making WILDLY intricate plays
How do you watch juniors?
dull ibex
watching official tourneys
dull ibex
why thatmuch speed
I don't remember
dapper crag
You've got really specific EVs for Heatran
Might as well just go with generalist spread if you don't calc imo
nocturne holly
watching official tourneys
Isn’t it only seniors on stream
dull ibex
No?
dull ibex
You've got really specific EVs for Heatran
Yeah they're definitely calc'd
Me not remembering does not mean it wasn't calc'd
dull ibex
I imagine it's lefties hp, with a special attack bump, then bulk Calc, then speed bump but maybe it's more specific they that
dull ibex
Where do you find juniors bruh
Bro any tourney with a masters and juniors will have juniors play first iirc
Maybe I'll stock up on fresh start mochi then reset all my spreads to be specific when restricted comes around
dapper crag
Yeah they're definitely calc'd
So you just randomly calc stuff with no purpose ?
dull ibex
So you just randomly calc stuff with no purpose ?
No?
dapper crag
Justin told me that if you calc stuff it's for a specific purpose
Otherwise it's just generalist getting more value
dull ibex
I never said it was random you're just putting words in my mouth
dapper crag
Like I've got speed tiers and 92 speed Heatran reaches no particular breakpoint
So it feels pretty random
dull ibex
So you assumed it was random when I told you it's probably not random but I can't remember, you just chose to keep assuming it's all random?
dapper crag
If you want to outspeed lowly invested base 90 148 would make sense
dapper crag
So you assumed it was random when I told you it's probably not random but I can'...
If you don't remember what's it's for then it's randomly supposed to do something vs something right
dull ibex
No?
dapper crag
How am I supposed to know what you don't know 
dull ibex
That isn't how random works
Even if I Calc for something irrelevant (its not) that still wouldn't be random
Imagine this was a reg c spread and it's calcs aren't relevant anymore
I might have it written down tbh
dapper crag
Reg C spread on Heatran kek
dull ibex
I change spreads when they don't work
dapper crag
Go with generalist is my guess if you don't have something specific
Whole point of calcing is to outplay specific odds in my book
dull ibex
My other spread that 68 speed has one
204 hp for leftovers benefit, hits 109 speed, live Ice Spinner with tera, Special attack bump then dump in Spdef.
I imagine 109 is speed creeping or speed creeping speed creepers
The rest of my spread is still semi relevant
dapper crag
I see no benefit for Sp.Def given you resist most Flutter/Chi-Yu stuff
dull ibex
No where else for evs to go
dapper crag
Are you Substitute on Leftovers ?
dull ibex
That's why it's a dump
dapper crag
You can run max hp on leftovers
dull ibex
Not optimal
dapper crag
More hp = more likely to live stuff
dull ibex
I'm gonna switch to shuca 🤔
dapper crag
Shuca is nice but you don't run Tera Grass then
I've seen Fairy being used on Shuca Berry
dapper crag
Shuca makes you tank 1 ground hit normall
smoky hawk
@lofty tartan That's what I ran at my local today. That combo of eleki + weezing prevents torn from doing its job. Also shuts down water urshifu, even scarf variants
Though idk how common bulky torn is. With transistor turned off, eleki OHKOs only no bulk torn
For bulky torn, you need life orb
Or, and this is an idea I'm theorycrafting now... Thunder is all you need but for that you would want rain
So you can lead eleki + pelipper and switch pelipper turn 1 into weezing
dapper crag
You might want to consider Thundurus on such a team
I've been trying out a rental using rain and thundurus therian
I'm really liking Thundurus, good offensive potential with flying/electric STAB
smoky hawk
Thundy works well too. Pretty much the same but turns ground weakness into immunity at the cost of new weaknesses
Prankster as well so it can be supportive
dapper crag
This one isn't Prankster
It's the other version with Volt Absorb I think
145 base special attack is nuts
smoky hawk
Oh yes I saw that the last regional
dapper crag
Like it's the highest base special attack in the whole format (can make a case for Chi-Yu paired with Beads of Ruin)
It's not a support, it's raining damage
smoky hawk
Just did the dmg calc against tornadus
Eleki and thundurus have the same EXACT damage output
Bear in mind eleki's ability factors into that
Found that interesting. The 30% dmg output boost translates exactly into 45 base spatk higher- 100 base to 145 base
dapper crag
Found that interesting. The 30% dmg output boost translates exactly into 45 base...
but you get much more coverage out of Thundy
The one I'm using is really special, using AV with Thunderbolt Wildbolt Storm Grass Knot and Tera Blast Flying
smoky hawk
That's all well and good but the speed of eleki came in handy against scarf urshifu and tornadus
So to each their own
dapper crag
Wildbolt Storm into these two can probably KO both ngl
Now that you mention Urshfi Torn, I certainly want to run Thundurus, it looks like a perfect counter to these two lol
maybe even the Prankster one
smoky hawk
What I was pointing out is that eleki outspeeds them both, even scarfed urshifu
Today I casually volt switched into a scarf urshifu to keep momentum and it OHKOd
smoky hawk
Yes but I'm saying the outspeeding is a unique point in eleki's favor
dapper crag
Yeah I know
smoky hawk
I recognize the benefits of using thundy
dapper crag
I've not seen much of both lol
but I saw this rental that did well at Toronto regional so I wanted to use it
Regieleki I see it so much in replays from gen 8 but it's nowhere in gen 9
I don't get it lol, speed control is so big and it's nowhere
smoky hawk
but I saw this rental that did well at Toronto regional so I wanted to use it
Jamie Boyt's team?
dapper crag
Jamie Boyt's team?
It's not their rental, it's someone who made a team inspired by them I think
dapper crag
Boyt had no rain option right
smoky hawk
No he did not
bold geode
Yeah Boyt didn't use rain
dapper crag
It's Boyt team with Pelipper over Paradox Salamence
smoky hawk
I'm going to try pelipper myself but with eleki instead of thundy
Because rain would invite all the scarf urshifus to come out to play
dapper crag
Not like they needed rain to see play lol
If you fear scarfshifu that much run Sun or Ogerpon Water
smoky hawk
Oh with pelipper I'll run waterpon regardless
Maybe pokemon that are normally weak to fire if I'm running rain
Like rilla and chien pao
dull ibex
Shuca makes you tank 1 ground hit normall
Fair, honestly maybe fairy is better but I like the spore and rage power immunity alot
Has good resists too
dapper crag
Fair, honestly maybe fairy is better but I like the spore and rage power immunit...
Heat Wave normally deals with Rage Powder pretty ok
Sub is nice vs Spore
I like Substitute Protect Heat Wave Earth Power on Leftovers
It deals with like any situation. Good in Trick Room, good vs setup, good vs bad matchups, good if you need to stall tailwind, good if you want to stick on the field. 252 hp 252 sp.a and go from there
dull ibex
I do not like sub tbh
dapper crag
It changes how you play it
dull ibex
Yeah exactly
dapper crag
Heatran without Substitute loses to common matchups rn, whereas Sub allows to play passive vs passive and still be agressive
I rarely miss out on Flash Cannon
dull ibex
If I was dropping ep or fc it would be for Tera blast personally
dapper crag
Tera Blast only works on Assault Vest it seems
It's useless if you don't Tera
And who likes a useless move right
dull ibex
I don't like playing passive so a move doing that annoys me
dapper crag
You should be able to get Grass STAB from Ogerpon/Rilla
Don't run Heatran if you don't like playing passive, Pokemon is like the best slow win condition I think right now
Heatran isn't something that zooms past opponents without concerns
dull ibex
Heatran is very capable of being aggressive
dapper crag
Not being able to play passive Heatran feels like wasting half of what the Mon is good at
dull ibex
Heatran is more defensive then it is passive especially shuca
dapper crag
You scout their intents with Protect, you bait them to think you Tera, you setup in front of them on Sub
The base stat spread is incredible, it's so tanky
with 130 sp.a
Defensive aspect of Heatran comes from typing/stats
It being passive means you want to accumulate Leftovers recovery and pin them through switching right
Aggressive would be Life Orb
Which works but is so easily played around
Heatran plays really differently in Doubles than in Singles where it's a stall machine while pinning you through Magma Storm
dapper crag
But it gets less results rn
dull ibex
Shrug
dapper crag
Even Life Orb run a stupid amount of hp
and defensive tera
I don't see much Heatran using offensive tera and max speed right
I find it funny that you recognize it being a defensive Mon when you were arguing that defensive stuff wasn't a thing in VGC 😛
Seems your mindset is evolving red
dull ibex
That
Is not.
What I said
I said hyper defensive teams don't exist
And they don't
Stall is non existent
dapper crag
What is Sub + Protect Heatran doing do you think ?
dull ibex
That isn't what stall is
dapper crag
Yeah stalling turns of Tailwind isn't a thing
dull ibex
That isn't what stall is!
dapper crag
Stalling turns of Trick Room isn't a thing
Love how my coach + Wolfey on stream use the word stall vs unfavorable conditions
If that is not stalling what is it tell me red
dull ibex
Stall is an archetype that uses a stupid amount of bulk and status with pivoting to chip teams to death
Stalling out stuff exists for sure
And you can play passive
But that needs to be the focus and Win con in most games to be stall
It's like how tr can exist on teams not tr teams
dapper crag
You don't need it to be an archetype to stall something out
dull ibex
But when people say stall doesn't exist they mean the archetype
dapper crag
So why do you think to bring up the stall archetype then
When I clearly say stalling turns of trick room/tailwind
dull ibex
Are you trying to gaslight me
You mentioned the conservation where I said defensive teams don't exists
So I clarified in that conversation I was talking about stall archetype
dapper crag
yes cause I fondly remember it too and I found it funny that Heatran is defensive in your eyes
dull ibex
Yeah heatran is a fat mon with good offense
But you keep asserting something I didn't mean
This is the 6th time I'm telling you I meant stall Archetype
dapper crag
🤷♂️ okay
dapper crag
vs super passive leads yeah
otherwise it's pretty rough to do so without pivoting around and scouting
heady onyx
Hello ! I want to build a double battles team for playing on switch
is it the good place ?
next stump
Hello ! I want to build a double battles team for playing on switch
yes 🙂
heady onyx
oh nice
I've done some battles on showdown and I want to build a good team
anything I should look out for ?
next stump
Two things:
-
I heavily recommend using rental teams to see what pokémon and play styles you enjoy. It takes a while to build a team in game and the last thing you want to do is waste time and energy on a team you end up disliking
-
Check out Pikalytics (a website) to see what pokémon people are commonly using. Also watch the Regional competition streams that happen 2-3 times per month to keep track of the meta and what pokémon are on top
dull ibex
is it the good place ?
Yes!
molten oasis
We can help you build something
dull ibex
Rental teams are great but if you have an idea in mind I can definitely try to help
molten oasis
Or you can use one of our rentals
heady onyx
Yeah I want to build my team, I can make it on showdown and test it before I commit anyway right
dull ibex
Yeah
heady onyx
We can help you build something
for real nice
molten oasis
Ok, do you know what mons you would like to use?
heady onyx
Ok, do you know what mons you would like to use?
The strong ones lol
I look at pikalytics and I see Flutter Mane Iron Hands
I got those
heady onyx
the fish ability makes me nervous in doubles
molten oasis
It really doesn’t matter that much
Not like, it doesn’t matter
Cuz the ability is just to help your side hit harder
molten oasis
They do
heady onyx
oh
molten oasis
The advantage of chi mane tho
Is that mane can do booster speed and outspeed most of everything so chi yu can sweep
heady onyx
oh you can see the partners on pikalytics nicer
so the most popular ones with iron hands/flutter mane are heatran amoonguss ogerpon and landorus
molten oasis
Chi yu and mane are also easier to pilot imo
heady onyx
is that good ?
next stump
so the most popular ones with iron hands/flutter mane are heatran amoonguss oger...
that team has no speed control and is kinda hard to use
heady onyx
that team has no speed control and is kinda hard to use
yeah I got no moves yet I know
molten oasis
I think as an easier team to start with
next stump
i think like
molten oasis
Torn chi mane and hands would be good
next stump
yeah
molten oasis
That seems pretty easy to pilot
mighty stump
i think like
Hes thinking
heady onyx
So what speed control can I get with landorus flutter mane ogerpon iron hands amoonguss heatran
next stump
none really
mighty stump
Remember CA Tera Fire Tera Blast RM from JoeUX9
I miss that shit
no wait
Koutesh
mb
next stump
good times
molten oasis
Good times indeed
heady onyx
none really
for real ?
molten oasis
That’s the set my current moon had
next stump
for real ?
yes
molten oasis
And now I’m building a version of Boyts
next stump
use tornadus, it’s the simplest speed control available now
molten oasis
Same moves different evs, so ig it’s mine lol
heady onyx
I don't have tornadus
next stump
mighty stump
Time to get a Torn
dull ibex
https://tenor.com/view/entreprise-car-getting-mental-mental-rental-van-gif-35714...
I love this
molten oasis
Do you have a way to get torn
heady onyx
probably
molten oasis
well you should if you have lando
heady onyx
but I don't like it, it looks ugly
molten oasis
Do you have legends arceus or crown tundra
molten oasis
but I don't like it, it looks ugly
I’m telling you right now get over that immediately, like I’m not trying to be rude
But I was the same way and I hindered my progress drastically doing that
mighty stump
But I was the same way and I hindered my progress drastically doing that
He’s self aware
molten oasis
Lol
molten oasis
I see some options
Like?
mighty stump
If the next word is Illumise im leaving
molten oasis
Only thing I’d do with those 6 you mentioned is icy wind mane
mighty stump
I like Bundle
molten oasis
And maybe rock tomb lando
mighty stump
If you really want an icy winder
molten oasis
Ik that popped up for a bit
mighty stump
And maybe rock tomb lando
I feel that died real fast
molten oasis
It did lol
mighty stump
Like ive encountered one and never again
molten oasis
I saw one and I don’t think I cared cuz I murdered it with shifu
mighty stump
The water overlap is painful
and goingn rock tera with Rillaboom going unga bunga is sad
I do have to say
mighty stump
The more I see games
molten oasis
But takes like, over half usually
mighty stump
The more im convinced Ttar actually@coming back
molten oasis
I see potential
It’s just a massive Tera hog
oh boy I just got another Neilsvgc “this is the most _ competitive team”
dull ibex
The more im convinced Ttar actually@coming back
Genuinely think it's coming back fully when Exscalibur drops
molten oasis
What does Bax do to ttar?
molten oasis
Oh lol
mighty stump
Genuinely think it's coming back fully when Exscalibur drops
Oh boy I cant wait for the legendary Arthurian sword to come back
dull ibex
Steel is huge in flutter meta
molten oasis
That’s gonna be crazy
heady onyx
so I can get Rock Tomb on Landorus, Trick Room Icy Wind on Flutter Mane
dull ibex
I miss aegislash
dull ibex
so I can get Rock Tomb on Landorus, Trick Room Icy Wind on Flutter Mane
Not worth it Imo
mighty stump
TR Icy Wind Mane is incredibly contradictory
heady onyx
oh okay
molten oasis
Lowers speed then click tr 
dull ibex
Stonks
heady onyx
so just icy wind then
molten oasis
Let’s buff my opponent
mighty stump
You want to be fast to click Icy Wind
but you wanna be able to take advantage of TR in TW MUs
dull ibex
Icy wind mane works but you might also want torn
mighty stump
but if youre Booster SpenIcy Wind
molten oasis
Yes that’s like, the main thing
dull ibex
Tofu do you know what mons would be 108 spee?
mighty stump
? Wdym
molten oasis
I have a gholdengo at 109 speed
mighty stump
Thats my personal threshold
dull ibex
Ah OK
mighty stump
I dont think anyone does 107 as a breakpoint anymore
but for me out of habit it givws me a comfortable gauge
dull ibex
Trying to remember why my heatran was 109 speed
mighty stump
you probably wanna go higher now with faster mons
but
Are yall speed creeping my breakpoint
molten oasis
I don’t remember what exactly my dengo is supposed to be outspeeding naturally tbf but I think it was a tw speed calc
dull ibex
I think this was reg c
molten oasis
reg x wow he played so far into the future
lofty tartan
If the next word is Illumise im leaving
dull ibex
I refuse to change my spreads every regulation apparently lmao
heady onyx
im gonna think about that tomorrow and build my team
might use tornadus
but it's still ugly
mighty stump
reg x wow he played so far into the future
Man played in the Paradise Protocol
molten oasis
Me who rebuild mons every reg
smoky hawk
You want to outspeed jolly ogerpon if you are running something fast like flutter or chien pao. Or even better torn as it is 1 base speed higher
molten oasis
Man played in the Paradise Protocol
Fr
mighty stump
Torn runs max hp max def nowadays
molten oasis
I think for booster energy speed mons it’s important to still outspeed things without booster
I have my support moon outspeeding oger so I can breaking swipe spam it
ember linden
In top 8 in the wide league tournament
cyan smelt
when's the next regional and is it brisbane?
ember linden
In top 8 in the wide league tournament
In top 4 now
heady onyx
I figured my team now time to build it
heady onyx
Gonna use Ogerpon-Wellspring Iron Hands Flutter Mane Heatran Landorus-Therian Thundurus-Incarnate
molten oasis
Gonna use Ogerpon-Wellspring Iron Hands Flutter Mane Heatran Landorus-Therian Th...
Why not tor dad is?
Bruh Tornadus really auto corrected to that
heady onyx
well tornadus goes for tailwind
but I have some slower Pokemon and I liked the trick room option on Flutter Mane
so I went with the other genie
Thunder Wave allows for speed control too
molten oasis
Alr
heady onyx
and it deals good damage into Urshifu/Tornadus
I don't liked Tornadus on showdown, it felt always countered
knotty mirage
Does thundurus have tailwind ?
knotty mirage
Oh so that's the reason it got low usage
empty haven
What’s the standard build for singles gliscor rn?
dapper crag
What’s the standard build for singles gliscor rn?
tears, it just got banned to Ubers lol
like 3 hours ago the ban fell
dapper crag
You'd go the standard Toxic Orb Poison Heal with U-Turn Toxic Protect Earthquake
dapper crag
max hp for sure, then it's either max def or sp.def with careful/impish nature
Bulky pivot that spreads Toxic and stalls for recovery
I like shoring up sp.def because it's so low but there is merit to amp up def too
personal call
ember linden
Feels good man, had a great time.
heady onyx
what are the points representing ?
charred saddle
win records i suppose (?)
heady onyx
win records i suppose (?)
but the record is right by there, what are the point suspposed to represent... you've got someone with 7 points above those with 6
but also above them are some with 6 points
I don't understand lol
anyone has a good bulky flutter mane spread ?
dapper crag
check this for inspiration https://www.munchstats.com/gen9vgc2023regulatione/1760/Flutter Mane
pseudo wigeon
Need someone to help me with teambuilding
dapper crag
Need someone to help me with teambuilding
I can help you whatcha need ?
ember linden
Mine is as well
boreal fog
Anyone know a good code for a rental team that's good for low-tier?
charred saddle
you can check VGCpastes docs in pinned section for teams.
or the #rental_teams that people made here 
or watch youtubers ig haha
bold geode
@ember linden hey just to let you know, on your rental, we need the EVs but you posted OTS
deep sparrow
Here in about an hour can I dm someone a team I’m working on? Just want advice some more experienced vgc guys
deep sparrow
Imma take like an hour nap anyways so lol
Lmao. Sounds good! I appreciate it
lofty tartan
what are the points representing ?
Your results in a match earn you points, which determine your overall placement
Here, a win is worth 1 match point, and a loss is worth nothing - so 10-1 record is 10 points with 11 matches played
Sometimes, wins are worth 3, draws are worth 1, losses are worth 0
Typically there aren't a lot of draws here in VGC
charred saddle
can there even be a draw? since perish songs follows speed, and like recoil deaths still counts as a win since the opposing side faints first right?
dull ibex
yeah there can
next stump
the only way for a draw to really happen at a tournament IIRC is both players need to have the same amount of pokémon alive and those pokémon need the exact same number and percentage of HP left
also more recently there was a draw given between two players who had a Dondozo mirror and just timer stalled every game with 0 knockouts because they both led Dondozo every game
karmic temple
lucid lodge
Is the lake trio good in singles
next stump
assuming you mean in-game singles, doesn't look like they're really used at all
lucid lodge
I mean are they viable
next stump
I don't play the format so I can't say
bold geode
Idt they really are
If their use is anything like VGC, then it's just Explosion Azelf
I haven't seen any single player mentioning the lake trio either so
dull ibex
Afaik the only viable lake legendaries is azelf
uxie and mesprit dont get play
@lucid lodge
Azelf itself is mostly spikes then explode for HO
orchid falcon
Azelf itself is mostly spikes then explode for HO
imagine being a NPC pokemon trainer and ur opponent brings out a legendary pokemon, summons pointy rock to peirce your pokemons feet, and then fricken explodes
dull ibex
incorrect
calling someone a nerd in the competitive pokemon chat is the pot calling the kettle black
orchid falcon
we are all nerds
nocturne holly
calling someone a nerd in the competitive pokemon chat is the pot calling the ke...
🤓📖☝️
you rn
dull ibex
we are all nerds
that is what I said
cerulean arrow
would it be advisable to use glastrier and bm ursaluna in the same trick room team
next stump
it's not inherently a bad idea
bold geode
calling someone a nerd in the competitive pokemon chat is the pot calling the ke...
Shut up you fuckin nerd
next stump
glastrier can deal with flying types that Ursaluna-B doesn't love (although Hyper Voice/Bloodmoon usually is enough)
cerulean arrow
glastrier can deal with flying types that Ursaluna-B doesn't love (although Hype...
true
also walking wake/iron leaves are illegal in battles right? at least in smogon rules
next stump
are you playing singles? or doubles?
cerulean arrow
doubles
next stump
they're both illegal in VGC (official doubles ruleset) with no timetable of when they will be legal
cerulean arrow
cause i suck at teambuilding and im trying to figure
dull ibex
Shut up you fuckin nerd
coming from the third best bucketeer
cerulean arrow
they're both illegal in VGC (official doubles ruleset) with no timetable of when...
does the same apply to singles?
dapper crag
does the same apply to singles?
nah they're legal
next stump
yeah, doubles/singles in-game follow the same ban list
dapper crag
Walking Wake is a pretty strong HO part of Singles lineup
next stump
you cannot play battle stadium singles with walking wake
cerulean arrow
huh? im confused
mighty stump
coming from the third best bucketeer
Are u the fourth cause Jojo is 2nd
cerulean arrow
you cannot play battle stadium singles with walking wake
ah alr
dapper crag
if you follow smogon rules then Walking Wake/Iron Leaves are allowed in their respective tier
dull ibex
Are u the fourth cause Jojo is 2nd
listen im humble enough to admit the best is you but im certainly number 2
mighty stump
listen im humble enough to admit the best is you but im certainly number 2
YOU CERTAINLY WENT NUMBER 2 ALRIGHT
CHOP CHOP BUCKET BOY
POWER MY@MICROWAVE
dull ibex
🤔
I play battle bucket in splatoon is that good enough
we should actually vc lmao
at jojo as well that dude was hilarious
dull ibex
F
mighty stump
lol
bold geode
Tofu I choked hard
dull ibex
you usually do
bold geode
So I was doing Wide League tournament
I was 4-1, so I guaranteed top cut
THEN I FELL ASLEEP
mighty stump
:/
dull ibex
F everyone is gone
nocturne holly
I’ll join 😊
dull ibex
im waiting two more minutes then leaving vc
keen river
how does shellside arm work?
fast plume
Hi, im making carbink and trevenant tank build, but dont know if to put evs into def or sp def. For sure hp, also, I dont know if in this meta there are actually more special atkers or phys atkers
next stump
Hi, im making carbink and trevenant tank build, but dont know if to put evs into...
are you playing singles?
fast plume
@next stump doubles. Sorry didnt mentioned
next stump
the meta is definitely skewed physical right now
fast plume
Are ranked pvp only doubles?
next stump
there's singles and doubles
doubles is the official competitive format of tournaments
here are doubles usage stats
fast plume
@next stump yeah seems like, but, for trevenant even eith will o wisp shoulda i go p def ?
Ty mate
Thoose pokemons are for both format?
next stump
I can't really speak much to trevenant because I haven't seen it in a battle but I'd probably go mostly in DEF with a defensive tera
no its all doubles
just wanted to include more pokemon that didnt fit into the first screenshot
fast plume
Oh ok ty
Hmm ok then, for now i go p def, in case i swap in future. Thanks for reply bro
next stump
you're welcome!
frank glade
Was looking into using Ogerpon-Teal Mask Form. Saw on pikaytics that there’s a good amount of different items people have been running on it. Has anyone here used that form before? (I’m talking about doubles keep in mind) and if you have, what item have you found success with? I’m trying to fit it onto my fast rain team. Any advice is appreciated.
next stump
I think you're mostly looking at Focus Sash/Life Orb if you're an offensive set, Sitrus/Rocky Helmet if you want to be more defensive (but Ogerpon-Water is just better defensively IMO)
Focus Sash is probably where I would start unless extra damage is needed to pick up knockouts
There are also people who run razor claw for the 50% chance to crit Ivy Cudgel
frank glade
Thanks for the response! Also very interesting, I saw the razor claw somewhat high on usage and was curious on how high that ivy cudgel becomes, seems deadly lol. And while I agree the water form would probably be better, the grass form getting defiant really has me curious because I will be running 4 physical attackers. So I was thinking maybe it’d be nice to catch intimidaters to get that juicy plus 2 and nuke everything with like a razor claw or life orb for example (choice band is on another Mon already) but was wondering what you think about that considering it’s a rain team so maybe water oger is just better?
next stump
I think Teal Mask can fit for sure, Ogerpon-W usually just has better defensive matchups into stuff like Urshifu or Heatran
but your other rain teammates can hopefully handle them
frank glade
I see, and yeah I guess I didn’t consider the benefits of just having that better matchup from the getgo. Wouldn’t get totally nuked by Sun either anymore lol, appreciate the advice!
I’m hoping my specifically calced Flutter can handle urshifu but he always surprises me
next stump
just make sure you have some sort of measure in place for scarf Urshifu, even if it’s just using your tera on Ogerpon for the speed boost
frank glade
Gotcha, and yup I currently have my flutter and Ogerpon to deal w him. Gonna try water Tera on flutter as well. Should be interesting.
next stump
not a bad choice, especially for best of one ladder play
nocturne holly
Shut up you fuckin nerd
Him fr
🤓📖☝️
feral wraith
Hello comp friends
dull ibex
Hello comp friends
hello
next stump
howdy
bold geode
Hello comp friends
Mr important man
feral wraith
Mr important man
better recognize
feral wraith
lmao
nocturne holly
👉👈🥹
ember linden
Hello comp friends
Hello
weary steeple
Current copium: since I’m losing so many battles, I must have easier opponents now
nocturne holly
<:WigglySlap:876578796935995443>
Atleast I didn’t sleep through a tournament
fucking idiot lmao
molten oasis
fucking idiot lmao
Stfu
molten oasis
8 pm, but I was also sleep deprived and just got home from work a few hours before
nocturne holly
<:worrychu:453220100636540939>
Yea but atleast you got top 16
Bro I need a nap
And it’s like the middle of the day
bold geode
Barely
With sleeping thru, I actually got 16th
I'm still a bit sad about that
nocturne holly
lol
dull ibex
All three of u suk 🌟
heady onyx
time to start the climb to master ball
next stump
good luck!
heady onyx
I'm torn between the Fire and the Water Ogerpon though
I've got EVs and everything
I have Heatran and Urshifu-Water
dull ibex
time to start the climb to master ball
You can do it!
heady onyx
one goes with the other
next stump
water-oger probably better to defend heatran
dull ibex
Wellspring heatran
heady onyx
ok
dull ibex
👍
heady onyx
double genie heatran iron hands flutter mane ogerpon-water
bunch of legendaries with paradoxes lol
dull ibex
What two genies
heady onyx
Landorus and Thundurus
heady onyx
Yeah I hate Torn lol
next stump
that team seems decent enough to make it into masterball
it usually only takes like 20-30 games at a 50%+ winrate
heady onyx
Nice
Got told that Thundurus was playing out like Tornadus
Thunder Wave is speed control
Eerie Impulse is something Torn doesn't have
next stump
prankster with thunder wave or scary face is similar enough in lower ratings