Nintendo 64

[digital remnant]

https://fccid.io/2BMRH

No

I thought preorders would start after the early bird bonus, but it didn't, do who knows 🙁

[green epoch]

Oh, sorry, I thought we were talking about the a3d

[digital remnant]

Actually some guys here know but they wont tell🤣

[turbid warren]

lmao "anal64" the lost N64 game

[digital remnant]

They also didn't... With fcc. In canada they did 3d in september

[green epoch]

That’s wild

[zinc dew]

I heard the gooch64 is getting ready to ship

[lament escarp]

Analouge is so long to write every time. English isn't my first language, sorry if anal means something funny.

[turbid warren]

oh, don't worry about it

[weary palm]

No no, it's fine. Established shorthand.

[zinc dew]

he’s playing y’all like a fiddle!

[lament escarp]

I think the anal64 is gonna be just as good as the anal pocket. 😋

[blazing knot]

how thicc do you think the anal64 is going to be? The anal pocket is already thiccer than a 3DS XL

[lament escarp]

That sure demands an analysis.

[weary palm]

Is that like a pocket pu... nvm

[digital remnant]

sounds similiar to aleck64

[worn delta]

On a tangent, does Summercart play native aleck64 ROM dumps?

[night saddle]

We're doing a Super Smash Bros. challenge until Nov 16th in the #game-challenge channel if anyone wants to join in!

Feaaturing the extra mode "Break the Targets", and the Home Run challenge in the Smash Remix hack.

[scenic vapor]

Certainly a bottom tier game

[lime topaz]

i think you have to select a special option in the menu for some, but they do work

[digital remnant]

No, only ares can do that

But not all special hardware implemented yet

Summercart64 can only play conversions by zoinkitty which lack some features

[viral portal]

I think it might also be thicker than a 3DS XL.

[plush summit]

I better be able to pocket my whole N64

[dreamy grove]

So I haven't touched mister in like 2+ years. What is up with the turbo core? Does it work for all games? Does it break games?

[cyan dome]

its a core that makes the cpu faster, use it at your own discretion

[dreamy grove]

I assume the physics is tied to the CPU freq in most N64 games?

Or framerate rather

[zinc dew]

Depends on game but generally game time was tied to processor clock cycles back then.

For example if you boost the framerate in Zelda you break the game. It was made for 20fps.

[blazing knot]

A lot of Rare’s games benefit from the Turbo core since they often had unlocked frame rates

[dreamy grove]

Awesome

[wanton sun]

The turbo core has some tricks for that. It overclocks the CPU (93.75 -> 120MHz), but still counts up the CPU timer in the 93.75MHz speed.
Also it overclocks all other components like RSP, RDP, ... but not Audio and Video out.
So most games only improve the framerate, but still run at the same game speed.

[zinc dew]

Oops sorry for being wrong earlier. Thank you for your amazing work, dude!

[wanton sun]

thankfully most games lock to correct speed themselves, so e.g. Zelda will keep 20 fps, no matter how fast CPU/GPu are.
Except for the title screen.
And lets not speak about batman...

[solar slate]

Mhm I have the urge to speak about Batman

[slow silo]

There was a batman game on n64?

[zinc dew]

Yeah Batman Beyond. It is very not good.

[lime topaz]

oh, I was misremembering, it was the zoinkitty conversions I tried then

[coral hill]

It's also a late release and uses a 4MB cart. Not even the standard "minimum" 8MB launch carts.

They didn't really intent to make a good game.

[worn delta]

Ah OK, I didn't realise any of them had special hardware, I thought it was just basically an N64 in each of them, although with coin support obviously

[digital remnant]

I think it had extra ram and depending on the game an extra gpu/chip for overlay effects

Magical tetris challenge uses an additional video chip

[worn delta]

Interesting, I didn't realise that.

Would be interesting to see this documented for each game/board somewhere. I am surprised it isn't better documented. I wonder how much more ram boards with the extra ram have.

[knotty zealot]

special hardware for special people

[unreal sundial]

I scanned GitHub open issues, the spreadsheet and a year or so of messages here and not seeing others reporting an issue of Beetle Adventure Racing not saving new records after doing single races. Is it just me? I replicated it twice in a row

This menu appears after completing a single race, I change from Rumble Pak to Controller Pak in the OSD but nothing happens. It’s not saving the record (in case one suspects the UI being unintuitive). The OSD does say it’s saving via the auto-save

[zinc dew]

Oh wow good find and awesome of you to review everything before reporting. Incredible due diligence, thank you!

[spare glacier]

I can't seem to get Mario Kart 64 to save race results either. The md5 of mine is 3a67d9986f54eb282924fca4cd5f6dff

[wanton sun]

Can anyone with SNAC try to reproduce the beetle issue?
I think it could be related to the switch of the paks. There is currently no pause as far as I remember and the game might check for a "no pak" situation to see if there was a change.
(PSX disc swap nightmares are looking through the window)

[upper pivot]

@wanton sun will the M64 also offer a “turbo” mode?

[lament escarp]

I don't think he can confirm anything that hasn't been publicly confirmed by Modretro already.

[latent dagger]

I have snac and official controllers but I don't have controller paks.

Only thing I would be able to do is boot the game first with virtual pak, then switch to snac mode without pak.

Then switch back to v-pak in order to do a game save but I don't think I can do anything with ghost/lap data that saves to the pak in games that do that

[chrome quest]

With N64 development ongoing, randomly remembered to highlight this one where I'd found the image on MiSTer (over HDMI and analog output) was cropped a little compared to original hardware

[weary palm]

MiSTer crops both the left and right side in this picture.

[hasty musk]

where can i get latest turbo core for n64, on GitHub its 3 months old

[mint shadow]

That is the latest core

[hasty musk]

ok thx, and also thanks psx turbo core

[zinc dew]

the pins in every channel also lists where to get the latest cores

[hasty musk]

funny thing is: i'm too stupid to find tge pin on mobile app 😅

[lament escarp]

Under settings. Because that makes sense.

[zinc dew]

Nah you’re not stupid, the placement is lol

Oh wait they fixed it

Tap the name of the channel up at the top

[hasty musk]

now it makes sense

[hasty musk]

other stupid question to you: are you the Taito 2 core developer?

[worn delta]

LOL! You might want to read this thread.

#1358555491546169354 message

[blazing knot]

robby's ego doesn't need any more inflating

[worn delta]

If Robby was to get into core development it would be for the Virtual Boy, but he is currently trying to get over the hurdle of learning to tie his own shoe laces.

[blazing knot]

shoe lace core when?

[zinc dew]

Maybe

Please congratulate me for my good work

On the Tayto core

[hasty musk]

i ask because i thought taito f2 has rainbow island

[hasty musk]

you've done great work

[zinc dew]

Tayto is the best!

[zinc dew]

Be on the lookout for an imposter core developer named @pale mural

He’s devious and keeps taking credit for the Taito core

But my Tayto core is superior

[slow silo]

If your DE-10 overheats, does it become a fryed core?

[zinc dew]

@hasty musk I am sorry for leading you astray. I am not the developer of the Taito core, I was just joking around. @pale mural is the talented programmer behind it and he did an amazing job with the core.

[scenic vapor]

I guess that Rainbow Island is rather tied to the Jotego's Rastan core. But no support added yet.

I can recommend the TurboGrafx CD version. It is really close especially the jumping behaviour.

[paper crescent]

Agreed on that version, though it perplexes me how the MD version isn't as close as it should have been.

[fossil umbra]

hey folks, I've been going through the N64 google doc on game testing and noticing some interesting FPGA test results, and for no reason at all, I was curious if anyone else had specific N64 game performance notes, either cuz of how they run on the current MiSTer core or other performance reasons

[zinc dew]

Doc may be very outdated

[green epoch]

@weary perch has a more up to date sheet. I can’t find it though

[zinc dew]

@fossil umbra what is it you wish to learn? Maybe the chat here can help answer for you.

[weary perch]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HiL-vHgpL5Wj0iv88EGtMYcmcf9sml35W3sQgRPz2wU/edit?usp=sharing

[fossil umbra]

oh nice that's what I was looking for. I'm just doing some random research about the N64 and noticed the spreadsheet seemed outdated

[worn delta]

Yeah, all issues should be in GitHub now

[zinc dew]

Yes great point

[fossil umbra]

in particular I'm fascinated by the performance gulf sometimes between native and FPGA N64 software, sometimes cuz of fan patches and other times cuz of extra headroom

like the timing issue w/ Beetle Adventure Racing's intro (which I'd asked about in this channel a while back)

(and I know BAR's issue is inherent to how the core squeezes into De10 Nano's limits)

[weary perch]

one thing you can do which i haven't done but would be interesting is to run BAR! on hardware and on MiSTer with the debug mode turned on and the framerate display enabled

i'm now curious how the BAR! intro runs on Ares... might check that out

the beetle intro is one of those very finicky timing things on N64

the DK64 intro is similar in that it desyncs a bit on anything except hardware

Banjo-Tooie's demo/attract mode also runs too fast and often desyncs

Rare games tend to be finicky in general haha

[zinc dew]

Fan patches are typically constructed using emulators which vary wildly in accuracy. So they write a patch that works fine on an emulator but when played on a real N64 can have terrible perf.

The only way someone can effectively test fan patches is with a flash cart.

[magic girder]

Compatibility lists

[unreal sundial]

idk if you'd like to add this one #1096015979055697940 message

I assume no one was able to run this test for Robert #1096015979055697940 message. I did some digging for my original hardware that probably wasn't used in the 21st century yet, ordering snac 🤞

[unreal sundial]

nm, n64 snac out of stock

[amber fjord]

I have plenty in stock https://ebay.us/m/p3LYTo

[upper pivot]

Omg, I got an email saying analogue 3D is ready to ship.

[tepid shuttle]

shipping on february 31st, 2026

[upper pivot]

It says all orders will ship before Dec. 1

[spare meadow]

it's happening! 😃

[slow silo]

I hope they're not panicking because of the M64 and rushing out an unfinished product hoping to patch it in software later

[blazing knot]

https://tenor.com/view/hahahahaha-funny-as-hell-hilarious-laugh-let-me-laugh-even-harder-gif-17352083

[spare meadow]

3D will be my last analogue console unless they release a Dreamcast FPGA😃

[worn delta]

They are definitely running out of viable options after this one. Maybe they will go for PSX.

[spare meadow]

Or a Sega Mega Drive/Master System/Mega CD/32x 4k combo. Or even a Sega Saturn console

[cyan dome]

Analogue Tower of Power

[worn delta]

I think they got a bit of a shock that the Turbograx/PCE CD clone they did didn't perform well (or certainly didn't seem to compared with their previous consoles). I think even Saturn is too niche for the effort. There aren't many people out there with a box of Saturn games under their bed. Maybe they will just go 4K versions of NES, SNED and MD.

[spare meadow]

Or a 4k Neo Geo

[tepid shuttle]

i have 1000x more confidence in the M64 than i do the 3D

praying on the downfall of analogue

[zinc dew]

If it’s a good product it’s a good product. Just means more people get to enjoy N64.

I am super excited for everyone to realize that most of these games ran at sub 30 fps and we didn’t care lol

[vapid hawk]

i had once again forgotten i ordered that

curious to see what its like

[chilly ember]

I can't wait to see complain about frame rates lol

[vapid hawk]

they did talk about having some kind of turbo mode way back on ars technica didnt they?

[mossy vector]

It shall be authentic. Nothing less than four coats of vaseline vision and frame rates you can count on your fingers.

And dithering to remind people that 15-bit color existed and they were looking at pre-rendered Mario with specular reflections on their printed cereal boxes and not the TV.

[zinc dew]

I’m so excited for people to realize what a Wild West that generation was lol

[hushed nova]

how are they going to do that? take their analogue 64 off the shelf and power it on?

[zinc dew]

what, is this a trick question

[chilly ember]

Do analogue users buy their products just to put on a shelf and not use it?

[mossy vector]

I'm just old enough to have gotten a frozen turkey at my doorstep for thanksgiving. Analog 64 should faithfully duplicate the experience of getting a raw deal.

[vapid hawk]

i guess we'll see reviews and stuff soon

[hushed nova]

"retro gamers" love buying shit to put on shelves

[chilly ember]

Can't argue with that

[vapid hawk]

i have no display shelves so i promise i'll either use mine or leave it in the box 😛

[slow silo]

I think the bigger complaint will be from people thinking that the advertising materials saying it does 4K will make them think that it natively renders the game at 4K instead of just upscaling the original 240p or 480p image

[digital remnant]

They have all the great names in the n64 scene working for them though, so i really wish its great

Robert is also a genius though, outperforming them with speed-development in just 2 years! 🙂

[upper pivot]

who is behind analogue 64? I thought it was the mars fellow

[ember pewter]

He's one of the people who worked on it

[upper pivot]

Yes, who else did?

[ember pewter]

I don't remember now. Someone mentioned one or two names here a while ago. Mazamars definitely laid the groundwork with his ultrafp64 project but since its now an Analogue product I'm sure he's not working on it all on his lonesome.

[broken creek]

I never hear about Kevtris anymore. He went like full dark mode. Back to IRC or something.

[zinc dew]

still works there but he isn’t a name anymore

[ember pewter]

Isn't a name anymore is quite the take lol

[zinc dew]

It’s true though, no one talks about him and he isn’t brought up anymore at all.

He just kind of faded away.

[ember pewter]

Or he's busy with his day job

[zinc dew]

Sure, but my point still stands.

You don’t see him being marketed by Analogue. He hasn’t been mentioned by news articles in a very long time. Even when FPGA gaming is generally talked about you don’t see him mentioned anywhere.

Not being a name isn’t meant to be demeaning at all. It’s just the reality of the situation that the FPGA market has grown past “one guy”.

[ember pewter]

Sure, Analogue even have up on their website saying that its more than about one guy

Did Kevtris engineer 3D’s N64 FPGA core?
Kevin "Kevtris” Horton is the Director of FPGA Development at Analogue. All FPGA development is done by Kevtris or directed by Kevtris using our proprietary FPGA engineering methodology and in-house developed software & hardware. Analogue’s FPGA team is dedicated to FPGA Development and Electrical Engineering. Each and every FPGA core is developed with Analogue's unparalleled standard and no FPGA core will ever be released without Kevtris’s seal of approval.

I always find it so weird that people keep thinking that these products are "one guy" products

[zinc dew]

I think it’s weird you don’t understand that’s how Analogue marketed it.

[ember pewter]

Huh?

Yeah, I think we should just put a pin in it. These conversations on this server about Analogue never really go anywhere constructive

[zinc dew]

That’s on you buddy

I made a statement and you got bothered by it

[latent dagger]

The new Steam Machine can run N64 games better. It can render at 4K instead of just scaling. It can also run 60fps for games that originally didn't do that. It's superior.

[zinc dew]

I didn’t even say anything rude or wrong here. Guy isn’t used as a marketing tool by the company anymore and really doesn’t come up in discussion about FPGA gaming either. That doesn’t lessen his value, importance, or contributions. He just isn’t part of the current discourse.

How do people get mad about that lol. 🤷‍♂️

[zinc dew]

In all seriousness, if the Steam Deck is any indication then yeah the new Steambox will be an emulation beast.

[latent dagger]

for sure. But whether or not it's good value for emluation is yet to be seen cuz we don't have a price yet

[blazing knot]

I watched Gamers Nexus’ hands on preview and they were told by Valve that it would be “priced like an entry level desktop” so I would be surprised if it’s less than $1k USD

[civic wind]

I didn’t even think about using it for emulation. I don’t have a good use for the steam box but I really want one

My desktop already lives at my Tv and boots into steam big picture mode, but I would like a pc that doesn’t need a keyboard every so often

[zinc dew]

I’d probably dabble with it but I really do like the idea of having a consolized gaming PC separate from a low cost/power general purpose PC

[civic wind]

It still doesn’t replace my desire to build a badass mini-itx pc, but idk maybe it will in the end. Building in small cases always sucks

I just play shit like Brotato and cult of the lamb lol

[zinc dew]

That’s a good point, you can get really badass gaming PCs in small form factors now.

I love that

[latent dagger]

why does your PC now "require" a keyboard?

Windows has a built in on screen keyboard you can set up if it's just for the sake of text input

[civic wind]

because every so often there's some BS prompt that needs a kbm

and lets be real, steam big picture mode is not bug free lol

sometimes you need a kbm to get out of stuck situations

[latent dagger]

use playnite perhaps. better. also can manage and launch into other games from other launchers (or just standalone installed games)

[civic wind]

is playnite an alt to big picture?

[latent dagger]

keyboard and mouse is needed at times though for sure. I doubt that would change with SteamOS 3 though.

Playnite is a third party open source launcher/library manager.

https://playnite.link/

[civic wind]

to be fair I rarely need to mess with the kbm. Big picture mode is pretty cool

if the steam box can play the souls games well I'm set

[latent dagger]

for the KBM stuff though I feel like a compact BT keyboard with trackpad would suffice

[civic wind]

I have a smallish logitech lightspeed mech keyboard

[latent dagger]

I have a foldable one myself

[civic wind]

because I do sometimes use it for playing stuff, like Morrowind

[latent dagger]

playnite even supports booting into emulators and setting up booting directly to a specific game. (most likely through retroarch but could support standalone emulators too depending. Have to look into it)

[broken creek]

Would have been cool for Valve to add a keyboard attachment to the new steam controller. Always liked Microsoft’s approach with Xbox 360.

[iron wren]

Entry level PCs are not priced above $1k

[blazing knot]

I assume that they were talking about gaming PCs

Either way it was an intentionally vague description since it probably hasn’t been finalized yet

[zenith orchid]

Ehh.. you did say something kind of unnecessary.

[zenith orchid]

He probably followed you perfectly fine, and then you said that.. and went on to say it's on him that the conversation went that way, and you're dumbfounded why people get mad just saying

[neon heron]

Yeah, I was hoping in the 500 range based on their steam deck price, but after seeing multiple reports on that I am assuming more close in price to 750-800

[upper pivot]

@zinc dew I didn’t think your comments were abrasive for what it’s worth. I think it’s evident that he has most likely taken a more behind the scenes management type role and likely enjoying his success.

And I did the very first console on FPGA even before he did (something called fpgaboy which I doubt anyone here has ever heard of) more than 20 years ago— it would certainly be fair and correct to say that I’m “not a name” in the fpga video game scene lol 😂

[zinc dew]

Thanks for the feedback. I handled that poorly.

[zenith orchid]

Thanks for being a good sport about it

[zinc dew]

Well when I’m wrong I’m wrong and this time I was wrong.

And it would be wrong to not admit to being wrong.

[zinc dew]

My intention was not to be dismissive but it comes across that way and I see that now. Thank you for understanding me but I need to phrase my comments much better.

[zinc dew]

My apologies @ember pewter .

[upper pivot]

@zinc dew this is a tough crowd to please. You need to do damage control to avoid being canceled from Mister 64.

[blazing knot]

Too late he’s already been hashtag cancelled

[zenith orchid]

Did I mention Robby also drifted the conversation about N64 on Steam Machine towards emulation and PCs in general, while in the N64 thread

Not that we don't all do that at some point lol

[zinc dew]

another reason why I shouldn’t be a mod

[zinc dew]

Anyways yeah man good point.

I don’t think I’m getting any of the new machines myself but I’m genuinely excited to see what people think.

N64 is awesome, I love that more people are going to enjoy it,

[zenith orchid]

Bro I was seriously just teasing 😛

[upper pivot]

I should be getting both the analogue 3D and the M64. Looking forward to trying both out

[zenith orchid]

I can't wait to see comparisons

[zenith orchid]

I think just about all mods are human and so they are prone to human error. One of the best qualities a mod can have IMO is owning and cleaning up their own messes with no high horse anywhere to be seen. So I think you're only proving the opposite of what you stated in the message above 😂

[hushed nova]

I removed Robby's mod powers, you're all free now

[green epoch]

https://tenor.com/bGUfi.gif

[zenith orchid]

We still got the birdy mod though right? I think we'll be okay 😄

[cunning cradle]

Spooky!

[mossy vector]

Writing this here in case of further discussion. I ran across a commenter on YT about the Madden football games having a custom written sound driver to free up more time for geometry processing. So my thought is that the core's variable RAM latency might trigger a bug in that custom sound code. I don't know the circumstances when the football players 💥 or what version of the game does it?

[wanton sun]

Very interesting. If I have some time tomorrow, I can check if it also happens when there is no variable latency.

[mild widget]

Am I the only one who prefers playing N64 games with the GameCube controller?.

[chilly ember]

Yes

[mild widget]

[chilly ember]

Zelda oot and majora's mask isn't too bad with a Gamecube controller but I wouldn't wanna play goldeneye with a Gamecube controller

[mild widget]

Don't get me wrong I do also enjoy the 64 controller it's nostalgic as hell but man that stick just wears out so easily

[mild widget]

This is true.. I've tried it.. it didn't go well lol

Mario kart and Diddly Kong racing? Work excellent

For ocarina of time I map the controls the same as the GameCube port with master quest

[chilly ember]

The first time I finished oot was on the gamecube version it gets a pass with the controller from me

[tepid shuttle]

i think the gamecube controller is actually pretty good for most 3D N64 games. it's got basically all of the same buttons after all, just in a different layout

it's better than the hori pad mini, at the very least

[zinc dew]

I’m still mad I got hoodwinked into buying one of those lol

[tepid shuttle]

it's so overrated

especially for how much they usually go for

[mild widget]

I'm so glad I never bought one of those I remember a few years back I almost did.. but looking back I'm glad I picked up a raphnet GCN to to N64 adapter instead

[tepid shuttle]

that's by far the better option imo

[wanton sun]

Test version for automatic pak switch delay:
When switching between rumble and controller pak, there is now 1-2 seconds of "no pak".
This fixes Beetle Adventure Racing pak change detection.
I find it kind of annoying to have to wait on every pak switch, but please test and tell your opinion.
As it's the only way to reliable fix BAR, we probably have no choice.

[hushed nova]

maybe you could gate it behind a flag in the database if it is only for that game and annoying for every other one

[digital remnant]

Wasnt really faster in real life though 😄

[wanton sun]

To be honest, I always stay with cpak anyway as I don't like the rumble, so I don't know how many games need to sample "no pak" between the paks.
At least no one has brought it up before, so it could be it's really only this game.

[solar slate]

I would say the cpak is more used in general. The rumble pak gets heavy over time. It is easy to forget about it. I always use it very game specific. StarFox came with it back then. This was a very nice experience back then. Star Fox was a very good example. But rumble lost importance very fast.

During testing we had to use it. Most of our guys "forgot" to insert it most of the time and needed a small remider 😄

[magic girder]

It beats cycling to no pak like I did in BAR 😅

[unreal sundial]

I compared the list in http://n64.icequake.net/mirror/www.elitendo.com/n64/usa_boot_save_list.html where the game's primary save method is the controller pak, vs games that support the rumble pak (https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_64_games_with_Rumble_Pak_support)

(if there's better sources, please let me know 😅)

with a quick google sheets formula to match by names precisely (might miss some with one or so chars differing) I got the attached (spot checked like 6, seems ok)

I guess it doesn't mean they'd be impacted by the issue above (?) but a starting point to test, I'll try some

[wanton sun]

would require a test with the old/released core to see if there is any issue.
Forgot to mention before: thanks @viscid gate for in depth testing of BAR so I knew what needs to be done!

[zinc dew]

When you say it’s annoying to wait on every pak switch, do you mean you personally having to wait in order to switch paks in the core menu?

pins updated

[zinc dew]

During testing, omg I forgot you’re a real OG. Damn that is so cool man

[wanton sun]

When switching in the OSD, you now have to wait 1-2 seconds until the game does see the change.

the OSD switch still takes longer, but having to wait for something and cannot do anything always feel annoying for me, even if it's only some seconds.
Probably doesn't matter much as you don't have to switch every minute.

[zinc dew]

Ohhhh ok, I thought at first it was some code thing lol.

[slow silo]

Hmm, I'll have to test Gauntlet Legends with this, the game uses both and has a period of time where it tries to detect the pak if you switch, which you can even cancel the detetion of

Had recently played through that on my mister, but I had disabled auto pak switching to make it easier on myself

[slow silo]

Hmmm, causes Gauntlet to fail to detect a controller/rumble pack at the times it tells you to switch unless you intentionally wait now. The time it uses to check if the pack is changed is shorter than the switch delay that was added

[mossy vector]

Please explain better about what 'intentionally wait' means. Is it another text that displays that didn't before?

[slow silo]

The game tells you when you switch controller/rumble pak, then it checks for them. Before I could switch them in the OSD then confirm and the game worked fine, with this new one when the game asks to switch I have to switch in the OSD then wait at that screen for a few seconds before confirming or the game will think the pak is not plugged in

When switching to a rumble pak it says it's checking for rumble paks, but this check will now fail if you don't wait at the previous screen because of the added delay, the auto-check is shorter than the delay that was added

[drowsy lantern]

Is the Mischief Makers records menu this glitchy on real hardware?

[unreal sundial]

Tested the core with the fix for the Beetle Adventure Racing pak switch, works really well, the change in this menu #1096015979055697940 message (and the other to insert the rumble pak when entering the race) feels quite quick. Thank you so much!

[unreal sundial]

Seeing this, although I was explicitly pressing A immediately after moving to the rumble pak when starting a game. So the game will not try to pickup rumble later, the change needs to be detected while in that menu

I recall testing this working before with rumble and save, so if they do the flag approach per game Zakk mentioned, guess this doesn’t need it

[wanton sun]

What about blocking A+B+Start inputs while in "pak switch" stage? This would make it impossible to continue while waiting for the switch to complete.

[mossy vector]

I could see that approach working. It enforces the correct order.

[unreal sundial]

Good one!

I wonder if it works even better with a OSD message too?

Eg “Changing paks…” (centered and large like blocking, not the toast/corner one which is like a background notif), so the users don’t misinterpret the input block as the controller/MiSTer not being responsive/having a temporary issue?

[digital remnant]

Any reason gor 1-2 seconds? I remember rasky saying you cant change paks in the same frame, but 2 or a couple more should work?

[wanton sun]

i have not optimized for the shortest possible time

[slow silo]

I am not familiar with every game, Gauntlet Legends has a confirmation for when you switch packs but I don't know if there are games out there which might automatically check and time out

This feels like it would just make getting through the game slower, since you will be swapping them constantly to save and go back to rumble, would it be possible to have an option to turn the delay on or off?

(To be fair though when I was playing it with my cousin, to avoid this mess I disabled auto pak-switching and just set controller 1 and 2 to rumble and controller 3 and 4 to memory card and we just saved to there so we would not have to open the menu after every level to swap back and fourth)

[mossy vector]

We're only reacting to what you said. which was that you were hitting the A button too early before the mister actually plugged rumble back in.

if it's able to be toggled, might as well not even have it at all then.

[unreal sundial]

this pak swap as is, still seems faster than a lot of physical ones, shouldn't time out if there is one

[slow silo]

My point was before the added delay the game detected the change instantly

Now it;s failing to detect a change at all if you didn't wait long enough, and it's not like there is any indicator to when it's ready

[fossil umbra]

thanks to everyone who answered my questions as a lurker. choosing to out myself as Digital Foundry's Sam Machkovech. our Analogue 3D review is now live: https://www.digitalfoundry.net/reviews/analogue-3d-overclocks-the-n64-in-stellar-fashion

for the MiSTer crowd in particular, Analogue's own FPGA core is a very impressive alternative that revolves loudly around multiple overclock options, instead of a single all-in-one overclock

[zealous flax]

Um shouldn't this be posted in #fpga-platforms

[fossil umbra]

sure, feel free to delete/move the post, just saying that I'd been here last week asking questions about N64 core testing

[zealous flax]

Yeah I'm sure everybody is excited about the 3D and M64

[bright lotus]

Clint got that Analogue 64 3D

#fpga-platforms message

[spare meadow]

“You can't plug a 64DD into A3D, and as of press time, select flash carts aren't compatible, either.” So no Summercart 64 support😔

[tepid shuttle]

lmao

[bright lotus]

Don't worry, there will be rogue jailbroken firmware

[tepid shuttle]

company named analogue
console has no analogue video output
what did they mean by this

[fossil umbra]

you should ctrl+F "summer"

[zealous flax]

https://tenor.com/view/warcraft-world-of-warcraft-orc-dance-orc-dance-gif-19242689

This kind of rogue?

[spare meadow]

Thanks, my bad!! “We had testing success with both an older EverDrive and a modern, fully updated Summercart 64 without any apparent issues - except for one case of the Japanese version of Wave Race 64 having its music pitch upward for some reason in a way that the cartridge version does not.”

[magic girder]

Looking forward to the accuracy comparisons. Nothing else matters to me 😎

[zinc dew]

Sincerely appreciate the self-policing and for everybody understanding it. Yes please do keep talk of other recently released FPGA consoles in https://discord.com/channels/647909397477195803/737505421148815380

Not that we can’t talk about it here at all but there’s a lot of excitement and chatter that would greatly derail the conversation here, which the chat is focused on core testing and improvement.

[magic girder]

Oops, sorry Robby. Will move myself over to #fpga-platforms

[zinc dew]

It’s ok, just trying to steer the conversation there so we don’t drown out the testing/feedback chatter here.

[magic girder]

N64 core is best core ||after PS1 core||

[wanton sun]

I can't follow everything, but some of you have probably found out already: what RAM is used?

A3D has modern-day RAM that can provide a lot more bandwidth than the original Rambus interface on the N64. To ensure compatibility and timing accuracy, we introduce very specific delays to model how the original Rambus works. Basically, we slow things down

This sound strange.

[zinc dew]

it’s marketing spiel written by someone who didn’t understand what a programmer was telling them lol.

I’m not being snarky, I promise you that’s what it was

[chilly ember]

Ram doesn't go brrr

[hushed nova]

instead it go pbtttttt

[magic girder]

Weird. Mine goes “pbtt pbtt pbtt” with little gaps. Maybe that’s why I have issues playing Grandia on the Saturn core

[hushed nova]

you need more brrrr ram

[zenith notch]

To be fair that's quote from analogue's hardware engineer, not the journalist.

[zinc dew]

He has perfected marketing speak, I’m genuinely impressed

he or she

[worn delta]

That is poor if they didn't support Summercart

[magic girder]

Big cartridge got to them

[worn delta]

Ah, sorry, chat should be in FPGA channel

[quick light]

I think it does

From what I've read

[finite anchor]

Intresging that its out, the turbo mode sounds nifty, But am I right in thinking that the core for the MiSTER has a turbo mode or a turbo variant?

[wanton sun]

Mister does offer a seperate turbo core.

[quick light]

And it is good

I really like the turbo PSX and N64 core. I think it's the hidden gems for Mister

[digital remnant]

Thats marshalh, creator of the 64drive and many other stuff

[digital remnant]

Are savestates possible? Or for m64? Everybody thought 3d would include them, but analogie scrubbed them from their website with todays update😲

[finite anchor]

Is it just something that would be in update_all?

[zenith notch]

#1096015979055697940 message

[woven olive]

It's in the pins of this channel.

[prime sphinx]

A3D uses the Cyclone 10 fpga chip, which I guess is way more powerful than the one that mister fpga DE10-nano uses. To bad it does not use the Everdrive carts or a openfpga support. Seeing the specs on the A3D, made me wonder what the guys making that felt when the N64 core was released more than a year ago.

[slow silo]

Those shoulder pads or whatever they are called are ridiculous

[drowsy lantern]

@wanton sun : Sorry if this has been asked before, but I was wondering if it would be possible to bring the "new Bob" de-interlacing from the PSX core (it’s amazing!) over to the N64 core? Or is there some limitations that prevent this?

[cunning mantle]

The current Deinterlacing is pointless for Hires games though, only weave (A3D).

[bitter fjord]

Summercart64 appears to work (somewhat), it's the Everdrives (real and clones alike) that are having issues

[zinc dew]

Apologies, I’m not familiar with him but that sounds super cool. Always amazing to see other people with great skill love the N64!

[cunning fern]

You can use weave + soft filter as an alternative, works pretty well. I think Robert said it should be easy to add but he's not interested as clean HDMI is a better option for 480i games. Analogue is trying something similar in a future update, per mylifeingaming review. I would like newbob deinterlacing as it reminds me of how 480i used to look on my crt, but understand it is not for everyone.

[zenith notch]

There's enough games with 480i menus or title screens that the new bob would be beneficial imo, even if in game they are 240p.

I would love to see the black frame feature from the PS1 / Saturn cores added too.

[spare meadow]

It would be pretty cool. Another cool this is if the PWM cores could be merged with the PSX and N64 core too

[cunning fern]

Title screens do not need newbob, current weave is much better for static screens. Bob is better with movement between frames, as you would get combing artifacts using weave. But now that you can add a soft filter to weave, it looks much better even in movement, but downside is loss in sharpness.

[spare meadow]

If CBlend could be merged with N64 and PSX cores it would be great too

[hushed nova]

PWM is not getting merged into any official releases

[zenith notch]

That assumes a static title screen, which isn't the case for World Driver Championship for example.

[spare meadow]

It would be great if it could. Don’t know if it is because I am colorblind but the colors with PWM core seens so much better

[hushed nova]

CBlend doesn't take that many resources, but if I recall results vary based on video modes. also if you just care about blending on hdmi you can probably write a video filter for it. it's just horizontal blending

Sorg opted for just creating a new i/o board that did full range color instead of pwm

[mint shadow]

CBlend experiments were going on earlier, PSX core had issues with consistency across games, not sure why the N64 never got it

[spare meadow]

I wish I could write it but is far beyond my capabilities

[spare meadow]

Using CBlend on N64 is amazing! The games looks like I remember from my teenage days😂

[drowsy lantern]

But what about games with hi-res modes? I feel like they would greatly benefit from the "new Bob" from the PSX core. Also I see you mention Weave as if there was another option available but on the N64 core I don’t see any option to change this?

[cunning fern]

The option exists in the video processing option in the core. you will see Intl filter, select it and it will show from file. You can then select GS_Sharpness_005 in the upscaling recommended directory.

[drowsy lantern]

Ah yes I already have smoothing filters applied. What I meant an Interlacing selection like the one available in the PSX core, not filters.

[spare meadow]

I know its a PS game but playing Silent Hill with CBlend on makes a huge difference with the game.

[slow silo]

So basically to summarize the discussion lately:

[cunning fern]

Well there is no bob implemented, so no reason to have a deinterlacing toggle. Default is weave. And the intl option in filters only affects 480i, so make sure it is enabled. It is not enabled by default.

[weary palm]

Oh no. Analogue got the Midwest Gaming Classic 2011 demo by Marshallh working on their 3D. It's over.

j/k 🤞

[chilly ember]

MiSTer is cancelled

[weary palm]

Yup. Nothing to see here.

[weary palm]

...up the jam.

[topaz otter]

the analogue 64 is real

and apparently only plays real N64 carts lol

[covert bough]

Does it not work with everdrive?

[chilly ember]

Word is just Summer Cart at the moment

[slow silo]

Apparnetly works with some everdrives but not others. One person got their X5 to work, another could not get their X7 to work, others claim it depends on having an older firmware.

[ember pewter]

Gamesack managed to get his X5 (I think?) working, he had to downgrade the OS

https://youtu.be/2jcEHciklCY?t=756

Looks like he had an Everdrive64 and downgraded it to OS version 2.13

[topaz otter]

old bald youtuber xbox hackerman I think said that even the summercart was finicky

there were times in his review that the analogue crashed way more than is comfortable for me

and the fact that it just blows up 320x240 to 4k with no scaling, I can do that with a box that costs 20 dollarinos

[zinc dew]

Nice find. @serene mason do you know what OS is your Everdrive?

Honestly, I’m sure the Everdrive functionality will get figured out promptly. I’m sure Krikkz would be very happy to sell more of his flash carts to as many owners of the Analogue 64 as he can.

[vital narwhal]

I just got the 8bitdo n64 controller to use with the n64 core. It works great, although the only issue is the deadzone is really small. I know the n64 core does some stuff to fix the deadzones, and so my gamecube controller feels great in that regard. Anyone else have this problem?

[chilly ember]

Is your controller on the latest firmware?

[vital narwhal]

Oh I should have checked for that first. That sounds like it should do it! lol

[native mesa]

Did analogue rip off Robert’s core for their console or was that speculation?

[digital remnant]

It was always ultrafp64 which started out a couple of years before the mister core

[chilly ember]

They maybe added a turbo mode because robert did

[digital remnant]

But 3d was announced after the mister core

Overclocking things was also a longtime goal of ultrafp64

[chilly ember]

Ahh well maybe not then

[native mesa]

Maybe it was just nonsense then about some of Robert’s debugging appearing in early build screenshots then

[digital remnant]

You confuse that with modretros m64 maybe?

[native mesa]

Maybe

[ember pewter]

Yeah that was definitely the m64 that had Robert's debugging

If you search the channel history he talks about it

[native monolith]

At that price point, it's not gonna look great or have a good amount of latency, I'd think. I've never had much luck with anything less than a RetroTINK 2X, at least as far as modern solutions go.

(And in retrospect, RT2X isn't going to scale to 4K, either, it just goes to 480p and depends on your display for the rest.)

(RT4K is the baller move, but most ain't gonna want to spend that kind of cash.)

[zinc dew]

Robert is behind the ModRetro 64 FPGA core.

[serene mason]

I'm not sure, I'll have to check later.

When Krikzz sent it to me originally I didn't update the frimware.

So maybe that's why it worked on the Analogue 3D for me.

We didn't talk to any other reviewer while we were doing our tests, so I had no idea people were having issues with their carts.

Every single cart we used on it worked. NTSC, PAL, JPN, and a reproduction cart from Piko. Once I loaded up some 64DD stuff on the EverDrive 64 I didn't even question it not working for anyone else.

[old otter]

Hey there folks.
Just curious if anyone knows if, Pokemon Crystal works with Pokemon Stadium 2 via MiSTer? I tried something called Crystal Clear, but A: That didn't work, and B: I guess that's just a full-on hack? Initially, I thought it was a patched version that worked with Stadium 2, but that does not seem to be the case.

[serene mason]

By the way, I turned on my MiSTer to confirm. The speed glitch we discovered with Beetle Adventure Racing is 100% replicatable with the N64 MiSTer core.

[slow silo]

You know, speaking of N64. I was trying to take some screenshots just now and they were all just a black screen. Seems like I can't take a screenshot when I have it set to Clean HDMI, is that expected behavior?

[mint shadow]

What problem are you having exactly? If you're trying to use the gameboy tower to play crystal I don't believe that works on the core, but all other stadium functions should work with the transfer pack.

Other have confirmed it, but I also just tested with a crystal save and stadium 2 loaded it just fine, had a battle with my pokemon loaded from it without any issues.

[old otter]

Yeah, I was trying it via the GB tower. It seems like, the game itself isrecognized in the transfer pak (via MiSTer Menu) but when Itry to launch it, it just says please wait and doesn't go anywhere

[leaden dagger]

Pretty sure it’s because it’s not a vanilla version of Crystal

[old otter]

I'll try another version, but I'm positive the one I was initially trying was vanilla.. Is there a specific rom version I should look at? I also noticed, in the cheat menu when Pokemon Stadium 2 is active, there's a cheat right at the top of the list for Crystal.. Do you have that checked? I tried with and without, but still got the same result. So now I'm just wondering if I'm using a bad GB rom or something... but yeah, I'm pretty sure its vanilla

Just for clarity-sake, the exact name of the ROM I'm using is, "Pokemon - Crystal Version (USA, Europe) (Rev 1)

Just tried another rom, "Pokemon - Crystal Version (UE) (V1.1) [C][!]" and got the same result. Just says please wait once in the tower

[chrome quest]

As stated above if I'm understanding correctly, the GB Tower does not work with virtual TPak Gen 2 games

It'll work with SNAC and cartridges, but not with virtual TPAk. You can add teams to battles, manage items, etc. just no GB Tower on the core as some of the RTC for Gen 2 wouldn't fit on the core IIRC

[old otter]

Ohh. Okay. That makes sense.
I think Gold and Silver work. I've gotten them to launch, it just seems to be Crystal

[chrome quest]

Launch in GBTower? That's odd 😂

[old otter]

They do.. I mean, maybe it freezes up at some point, but I've at least gotten as far as the title screens for Gold & Silver

[weary palm]

What did you expect? Perhaps you're being satcastic. 😅

[weary palm]

Didn't they have this problem with the SNES too? I think some of the flash cart were fixed by new firmware (for the cartridge).

It facinates me that it needs such a hefty cooling solution. A DE-10 nano works fine (albeit a bit hot) without a veatspreader even.

[weary palm]

(Not an ad) What do you mean by no scaling? It's 9x with several options? Maybe you're talking about higher internal resolution, like software emulators.

[worn delta]

If I remember right Crystal uses a different Mapper than Gold and SIlver that is not supported in the core due to space issues. It should work if you had an actual cart in an actual N64 controller over SNAC though.

[iron wren]

Can confirm it works with a physical cart (and crystal clear does as well via a flash cart)

[worn delta]

I wonder how much space adding mapper support would add, presumably a sizable amount if Robert didn't at the time

[zealous knot]

Has anybody see any good comparisons between the Mister n64 overclocking vs analogue 3d? Are they similar or has the 3d got bigger boosts? I love that mister core and always use it myself

[nimble needle]

Hi all. Is there an equivalent of the Analogue 3d 23-bit colour mode on MiSTer N64 core?

[sullen harbor]

24 bit

[zealous knot]

Also it might be worth pinning a message with all of the FAQ regarding the 3D vs mister? I'm sure my question and others have been asked before?

[vapid hawk]

kind of unrelated but how does 32bit color even work when 32 isn't cleanly divisible by 3?

[nimble needle]

Yep that’s the one. Looked great from the screenshots. I think I remember fpgazumspass saying the VI pipeline made doing the equivalent of the psx cores colour mode difficult on DE-10 nano N64
core?

[civic wind]

10.667 duh

❤️

[worn delta]

Once we know more it would be good to have the differences documented for sure, and then cover M64 when that gets released

[vapid hawk]

is it just like 10bpc and 2 left over?

i guess i should get mine soonish if anyone wants to ask me stuff

[worn delta]

Off hand what can the core do that A3D can't?
Virtual Transfer PAK
Cheats
ROM loading

[vapid hawk]

do you count stuff thats a benefit of misters framework?

like, near arbritrary controller support is big

4 BT pads is big for party play

we have the cool 1p2c control schemes too

[tepid shuttle]

more tweaks for the VI pipeline

[vapid hawk]

do we have virtual mempak + snac on n64?

like how you can do virtual memory card + snac on psx

i dont think they have anything like clean hdmi mode either

and their deinterlacer is fixed weave

[tepid shuttle]

mister retains the original refresh rate while the A3D forces everything out as 60hz

[vapid hawk]

that should probably be #1 with a big star next to it

[stone pilot]

I'm not sure if it's the case in this specific instance, but: human eyes are most sensitive to green, so putting the extra bit or two there is generally most effective

hence RGB565 for 16-bit color

[worn delta]

What is our one? I know bob deinterlace isn't in the core, but that could probably be merged in, assuming it doesn't take much resource

Zakk would know

[vapid hawk]

oh is there no bob in n64? then yeah its also weave

[worn delta]

It could in theory be merged in easily enough but getting a good build is presumably the hurdle there

[cunning mantle]

The core has "Clean HDMI" though. It bypasses deinterlacing completely and converts the hires games to 480p.

[zinc dew]

I think this is a good suggestion, genuinely, but I'd like to avoid pinning any documentation that pits the Analog 3D versus the MiSTer core. I think comparing the two invites potentially disgruntled conversations about one versus the other and we should be focusing on comparing these cores against real hardware, not against each other.

[tepid shuttle]

it'd be more fair to compare the A3D to the M64 anyway imo

[lament escarp]

I'm a MiSTer fanboy! I don't even care about technical specs!

[zinc dew]

Unfortunately you already see the disgruntled attitudes from people who have picked up the Analogue 64 who have FOMO about the MiSTer. We're better than that to be blunt.

Both are great, both serve different purposes, N64 fans are the winners here.

[blazing knot]

https://tenor.com/view/arrested-development-david-cross-tobias-funke-there-are-dozens-of-us-dozens-gif-5426075

[zinc dew]

Yes, if anything I think comparing two commercial products is more appropriate.

[lament escarp]

Does analouge have a Kitrinx? A Robby? A legendary hero called @magic girder ? No! Because they're weak! And their core is weak! Kit will take us all in her spaceship and make us martian chicken sandwiches! Believe in the salvation that MiSTer brings!

[woeful grove]

oh god

actually i've always wanted a cult

[blazing knot]

What’s a Martian chicken sandwich

[woeful grove]

it's out of this world

[blazing knot]

Crazy that they have chickens on mars and nobody told me

[lament escarp]

It's a regular chicken sandwich really.

[blazing knot]

They don’t even have a basketsnake…sad!

[dry oak]

The 32bit Color mode on the analogue 3d, is that similar to the 24bit Color on the core?

[zinc dew]

hope that helps

[blazing knot]

I mean, they’re different bit depths, but they accomplish the same goal of reducing color banding and whatnot

[zinc dew]

32-bit color depth supports transparency and 24-bit color depth does not. That's it.

There is no difference in application for the N64 core as they both output 16,777,216 colors.

[zinc dew]

Yes, it's effectively the same thing.

[slow silo]

So, can anyone help with my screenshot question from the other day? Are screenshots not supported in CleanHDMI mode?

Can't find anything on the github about it

[zinc dew]

What’s going on?

[slow silo]

If I have the N64 core set to CleanHDMI, all my screenshots are blank

[worn delta]

Hmm, how about in other cores?

Oh, does it work when clean HDMI is off fine?

[quick light]

Maybe not use CleanHDMI and manually change the video options? Thats what i have to do in order to play Resident Evil 2. As CleanHDMI disables the fixed H/V blank, which means resolution changes. And Resident Evil 2 is full of them even without the expansion pack

[zealous knot]

That I get. My interest is more from a technical side of things with differences, in the hope that some things could be added to the Mister core to improve it

[zenith notch]

No quite, 24bit won't get rid of the banding when dithering is turned off in the same way 32bit does and the texture quality is in some instances greatly improved.

[zinc dew]

The core author is working on the ModRetro console so he’s quite busy atm. But I hope any improvements and features he adds there can get backported to MiSTer.

[zinc dew]

What really, oops

thanks for clarifying

[zenith notch]

It's more like how 24bit works in the ps1 core than in the n64 core.

[zinc dew]

So the additional 8bits for transparency. Is that just a desktop thing?

[zealous knot]

Do we know if that or the 3D have similar size fpga to the Mister? I assume their memory would be faster (I hear that's a bottle neck of sorts on the Mister). The fear is that they both have bigger chips so mister gets limited benefit of back porting?

[green epoch]

Where does it grab the screenshot from? Clean HDMI does some weird shit iirc - like you can't do analog out with it enabled

[vapid hawk]

yeah thats probably expected, cleanHDMI is strange

[zenith notch]

That's beyond my understanding, would need to read up on it sometime.

[zinc dew]

If I can remember, there has been specific hardware features that the core author requested to alleviate limitations on the de10-nano.

[vapid hawk]

m64 has a 4k scaler too so this chip will have to be chunky

[ember pewter]

The 3D has 220K LEs, MiSTer 110K LEs

[zinc dew]

But ultimately hardware doesn’t matter, it’s the programmer who writes the code and the community that supports it.

[vapid hawk]

having a custom designed memory architecture helps a lot too tbf

[zinc dew]

And the MiSTer doesn’t have a 4K scaler to include on its FPGA either.

[zealous knot]

Any idea how much the upscaler would take of that?

[vapid hawk]

like probably fully half and tons of memory bandwidth

based on the chips rt4k and morphs use

[ember pewter]

We'll probably never know since the 3D is closed source

[zinc dew]

theoretically it might be more limited than the MiSTer

[zealous flax]

I saw both examples being true, ie 32bit color adds and removes banding/dithering on a per title basis

[zealous knot]

Yeah i have a retrotink for that, so hopefully the Mister still is on relative grounds when mister is 1080p

[zinc dew]

It does so for me on the N64 and PS1 cores if I remember correctly

[zinc dew]

Hardware isn’t irrelevant of course but it’s not as important as all the consoles on the MiSTer have proven

[zealous knot]

Is the expanded colour mode on by default? If not I'll need to check my settings!

[slow silo]

sorry for being AFK, I haven't had issues with other cores taking screenshots. The cleanhdmi option is only in the n64 core but many other cores let me output to hdmi with no filtering

[vapid hawk]

changing the color depth can mess with gamma too (raised blacks/lowered whites)

[zinc dew]

You have to turn it on

[slow silo]

without CleanHDMi it looks very blurry over hdmi

[zenith notch]

That's interesting, so not as stable as being an enable and forget feature like it is for PS1.

[quick light]

You can tweak it via the settings and filters to make it less blurry

[zinc dew]

Yeah turn off every VI

[quick light]

Just an option

[slow silo]

Is it supposed to do this though or is it a bug? Feels like a bug

[vapid hawk]

yeah instead of using cleanhdmi try disabling vi features one by one

cleanhdmi is one of those "wow i can't believe that actually worked" bonus features

it doesn't work with lots of stuff

[slow silo]

Even with everything disabled not having cleanhdmi on is considerably blurrier

[zinc dew]

Literally no difference for me

Something is up on your end

[zealous flax]

My recommendation is simple, disable dithering and bilinear VI, and optionally dedither if you want that "clean HDMI" look at the cost of more banding

[zealous flax]

There is zero difference, I'm looking at it right now

Playing some pilot wings

[zinc dew]

I’ve got Mario sleeping for me lol

[vapid hawk]

it'll be different on 480i stuff

[zinc dew]

Ohhhh

[vapid hawk]

but 480i stuff is pretty rare

[zealous knot]

This is why I love the Mister and this community. Personally I love the blur and trying to make it feel 'old'. I try to recreate crt feel on my TV via the Mister and retrotink (strong scanlines and horizontal blur).
I love how other people love the crisp and clean look. It's great we can tune them how we like

[zealous flax]

Indeed, I like me some strong masks through morph

[zealous knot]

I also play on the turbo core the whole time, just getting that extra bit of performance, at the cost of 'realism'. All of the options and different things like that are amazing to keep retro games alive and in the best state possible for a preservation side of things

[worn delta]

As an aside, did N64 get MDFourier tested? Will be interesting to see how A3D compares there

[zealous knot]

What does that mean? 🙂

[cunning mantle]

VI filtering is what it is. An authentic N64 look. Some fonts ingame gets super ugly with Clean HDMI:

[zealous flax]

Do you mean like this?

[worn delta]

MDFourier is a tool that runs various audio frequencies and tones that you make a recording of and then can compare different recordings. So here you could make recordings of MiSTer or A3D and have those compared and contrasted to recordings on real hardware

[zealous flax]

That white border is completely broken with clean HDMI

[cunning mantle]

I mean N64 ingame fonts (or sometimes they are just plain graphic elements.)

[zealous flax]

This is how it's "supposed" to look like

That's the work of forced off antialising with clean HDMI

[cunning mantle]

strong CRT filter may hide some of it, but not all.

[slow silo]

In your screenshot though Antialiasing is set to original

[mossy vector]

Shaking my head ppl. If you know anything about the N64, it's that its polygon renderer pipeline is RGB 555 (15 bit color) and it uses dithering. Yes N64 can also do a RGB 888 color mode meant for title screens and 2D stuff but that's not the point.

What Analog 3D offers is truly unique. The pipeline was expanded to RGB 888

[slow silo]

feels like there isn't really enough resolution to do proper antialising

Also going to have to re-apply the blackout sticker on my controller AGAIN, wish I could just turn off the damn LED

[zinc dew]

I have no idea what this means lol

[slow silo]

It's 333 more?

[zealous flax]

What's that?

[slow silo]

It's stickers that basically dim light over what you put them on

The controller I have on my mister has an annoyingly bright led ring around it's main button

But I suck at cutting them up to fit right, they keep coming off 🙁

[mossy vector]

A mode that offers no dithering in the final display image.

[zinc dew]

oh

[slow silo]

Specifically these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CLVEQCO are what I am using

[zealous knot]

Marker pen first to help?

[slow silo]

The problem is cutting a hole in them to fit around the button

I think I will just use an oversized one, who cares if it looks ugly

[zinc dew]

I use electrical tape because I am ghetto

[slow silo]

That would block all light, these just dim it considerably

[zealous flax]

Oh I see. That needs some kind of hole puncher in metal to get it neatly cut

[zealous knot]

Could you just unplug the led?

[slow silo]

I havne't tried opening the controller, but I assume there is a high chance that it's a SMD

[zinc dew]

What’s the controller?

[zealous knot]

Or on the inside of the controller marker pen the 'glass' from the inside to help really dim it?

[slow silo]

8BitDo Ultimate 2C, the wired version specifically

Hmm, maybe that could work, would have to see what it looks like inside

Want to ge that fancy TMR contrller, but it's expensive, also wireless only

[zealous knot]

Or lots of stickers on the inside, doesn't have to be neat then

[slow silo]

Though, still can't find one with a decent dpad 🙁

[zealous knot]

I use the switch online n64 one and got the 8bitdo 3D one, haven't tried that yet though

[slow silo]

I remember making a list of controllers to look into, likely outdated by now XD

[zealous knot]

No idea how the dpads hold up, but it feels 'authentic' to me

[chilly ember]

Do any 8bitdo controllers have a good dpad?

[slow silo]

Just looking for an Xbox-style dual analog with at least hall effect sticks and a good dpad

Also MVG apparenly really hated the analog stick on the 8bitdo N64 controller

[chilly ember]

I use a wired wukong on pc for games that don't use the dpad heavily and it's fine. If i need a good dpad i'd just use something good

[zealous knot]

I'm probably not a good judge, I played with the 360 pad for years and have my analogue pocket too 😄 so the 8bitdo ones feel great compared to them

[slow silo]

Ha, I have that wukong one, was on sale

Have that for PC

Was using their xbox controller before

found my old list, and yeah, this is likely oudated now: https://pastebin.com/2PCndrP4

Dosen't mention the new one with TMR sticks

[dry oak]

it means that Robert will add the 32bit mode to the core. Mister wins again.

[zealous flax]

Can recommend the gulikit ES. got it recently and played through 60 hours of silksong. It's an excellent clicky dpad, with rubber dome over microswitches

[slow silo]

Thanks, will look into that one

Was also looking into this new thing, seems to be their new flagship controller with TMR, but can't find information on the dpad: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DR8Y5W6Z

[blazing knot]

It’s clicky. Source: I have one

I like clicky d-pads personally

[slow silo]

How is it at registering quick d-pad movements? My main issue is that many of them easily register diagonals if you were to rapidly move them left and right for example. Trying that in Contra on NES and I kept shooting diagonally up or down when I should just be shooting left and right

[slow silo]

Is this the one you mentioned by the way? https://www.amazon.com/GuliKit-PRO-Wireless-Controller-Anti-Snapback-Nintendo/dp/B0FDQNRX4F

[blazing knot]

No issues that I’ve ever noticed

[zealous flax]

Yea, I have the standard ES, not the pro. Difference is hall effect vs TMR

[slow silo]

TMR on a $25 controller? Not bad

Do you know if it can it be used wired?

[zinc dew]

Yeah but does it have D-Analog?

[slow silo]

Only through a DVI-A port

Seems mostly good other than some loss at the extreme stick endzones https://gamepadla.com/gulikit-es-pro.html

[zealous flax]

Yea, I've not used it wired since day 1 when I set it up. Pretty sure it supports 1000Hz polling on USB

[slow silo]

Hmm, compatible with Switch, neat, I wonder if I can leave it paired to my switch but use it as wired for mister or pc

without that interfearing with each other

[zealous flax]

There's a switch on the underside. I have it paired to my switch 2 and PC

[slow silo]

Yeah, I asked that because I saw the switch, so I can pair it to switch and if I set it to PC mode it won't mess with my switch right?

Though the buttons having different names will throw me off XD

[zealous flax]

Yes. I have it paired to both

[slow silo]

A<->B X<->Y when switching between switch and pc

[zealous flax]

The ultimate 2 give you nice charging dock though 🤷‍♀️

[slow silo]

Still going to use SNAC when I really need N64 or SNES on my mister to be accurate, but I still want just a decent dual-analog for generic use on mister and pc

[slow silo]

I mean, the thing seems to be somewhat of a higher tier but I have no idea anymore these days, was the first good TMR one I saw

I really hope after this TMR becomes standard, if it cna be put in a $25 controller there is zero excuse that Sony, MS, and Nintnedo aren't using them in their $80 controllers that everyone complains drift

The new Steam controllrs will be TMR too

[zealous flax]

This review sold me on it https://youtu.be/f_gKV3kSyKQ

After TMR comes capacitive sticks

Don't settle for mediocrity

[zenith notch]

I just bought my first hall effect pad, now that's already been superseded, I can't keep up!

[slow silo]

The capacitive sticks ARE TMR though, they just also have capacitive sensors on the top

Heh, we did pretty quickly go from hall effect to tmr

for modern controllers at least

Actually, I bought my first Hall Effect controller in 1998 or 1999

It's.... not new tech XD

If anything, console manufacturers went BACKWARDS going to potentiometer sticks when they used ot use hall effect

[zealous flax]

N64 optical sensors 💪

[slow silo]

Too bad the stick design itself was terrible

"Let's have plastic rubbing on plastic, with no lubrication!"

https://tenor.com/view/bubsy-3d-what-could-possibly-go-wrong-gif-15096554981912876359

[zealous flax]

https://tenor.com/view/scares-me-i-fear-no-man-gif-21507033

[slow silo]

You know what's scarier? The new Bubsy game looks like it might actually be good

[zealous flax]

Don't say that

[slow silo]

that

There is a demo on Steam you know 😉

Also speaking of hall effect, I got that 8bitdo hall effect replacmeent stick for my n64 controller

It's definitely not perfect, but the old stick was heavily worn out so....

It's passable

[zenith notch]

In that case this will not be my first hall effect pad, DC would have been my first too!

[slow silo]

DC wasn't even the first XD

Likely others before it too

But I got a Saturn AFTER I got a PS2, so for me, DC was the first

Since that was the only SEGA console I ever bought while it was still onthe market, and not used years later

[zenith notch]

I never got the Saturn 3D pad, which was odd considering at one point I had roughly 150 games for the system and was obsessed with collecting for it. DC and PS2 came first for me too, it wasn't until I started working and had disposable income that I went back to the Saturn and hoovered everything up.

[slow silo]

NiGHTS was what made me want to finally get a used saturn, and of course the controller with it

[storm vessel]

Goddamn seeing all the shipping costs and import fees and taxes on the Analogue 3D makes me even happier about the N64 core.

[tepid shuttle]

idk if this is a hot take or not but the saturn 3D pad is way better than the dreamcast controller imo

[slow silo]

It's basically a Dreamcast controller with two more buttons, and no VMU

[tepid shuttle]

i like the analog stick on the 3D pad a lot more than the dreamcast

DC stick is kinda sharp around the edges and my finger always slips off of it

[paper crescent]

3D pad also has 6 buttons on the front that are all the same size.

[tepid shuttle]

it's funny to me that the saturn controller has more buttons than the dreamcast one

[solar slate]

that is pretty cool. The dithering can be annoying. And just because of the dither present there is the dedither VI filter that blurs the whole picture very much in addition to the several blurs we have already on screen. That means when there is no dither anymore, we can also switch of dedither and have much sharper picture. But I guess that is nothing we can do on Mister because of how much space the core already takes.

[tepid shuttle]

i hope to see a similar option on the M64

[cyan dome]

mario 64

[tepid shuttle]

yes that

[zinc dew]

I thought we had an option to turn off dithering in the core.

[solar slate]

yes but still is in 16bit color

[zinc dew]

I’m not following, haha sorry. I think we also have a color bit increase too you can use in combination with that.

[zenith notch]

That doesn't remove the banding, it's not like how it works in the PS1 core.

[zinc dew]

Oh! That’s what I was missing.

what does that option do then?

I flipped it on and off last night when testing it and it didn’t seem to have any impact from what I could tell. I wasn’t sure what I was doing wrong.

[zenith notch]

N64 renders at 24bit, but outputs 21bit. That option just restores the full 24, but isn't doing so much of a change that banding is removed if dithering is disabled.

[zinc dew]

Thank you, I think I finally understand.

[zenith notch]

I think I recall Robert added the option as it annoyed him having slightly worse colours!

[zinc dew]

honestly, I think I was getting it confused with the PS1 this whole time lol

[worn delta]

Is there any visible benefit going to 32bit colour if N64 is 24bit?

Does it let you do things with HDR?

[neat sierra]

How do you create more color information?

[zenith notch]

Yes, you remove the banding and in some games increase the quality of textures, it's all shown in the review videos.

32bit for N64 is like enabling 24bit in the PS1 core.

[zinc dew]

I haven’t watched any review videos

As you can tell lol

[zenith notch]

Mylifeingaming's video is good, probably worth watching that if nothing else.

[neat sierra]

I’m genuinely asking, if the system was 24bit wouldn’t 32bit be something made up? I don’t know how color works despite all those coloring books I platinumed in kindergarten

All of these options are so funny to me. N64 fans really hate N64

[zinc dew]

Not me I love the Vaseline!

[zenith notch]

It's made up in the sense that it's an emulator enhancement. The same way 24bit is "made up" for PS1.

[zinc dew]

It’s like wrestling

[zenith notch]

dat passion

[zinc dew]

oops I forgot we shouldn’t do gifs in focused channels lol

[neat sierra]

Step 1: through great effort and expense create as faithful a digital recreation of N64 as possible
Step 2: fuck all that

[zinc dew]

ok so I clearly don’t understand bit depth so listen to @zenith notch and not me lol

But you’re basically allowing the system to interpolate and display more color information so the clear banding you get between shades is much kore gradual.

[zenith notch]

It's kinda true, the overclocking feature is the pretty much only thing I am seeing being discussed on forums, no one wants accuracy!

[zinc dew]

So you’re not really creating “new” information in so far that you’re allowing for more gradation between colors

[neat sierra]

Got it so make up new info from existing through some interpolation algo like the PWM cores

[zinc dew]

I honestly think it’s because most of those people probably didn’t grow up with an N64 and aren’t used to early 3d game performance

a lot of people are used to emulators which isn’t good or bad, but what we take as “external modifications” they might see it as expected

[neat sierra]

Because N64 fans love everything about N64 except how it looks and how the games play 😉

[zinc dew]

Maybe I’m in the minority but I honestly appreciate each console’s hardware quirks.

[zenith notch]

Same, it's what makes that generation so special.

[zinc dew]

Like for the PS1, I play with dithering on. It’s just such an iconic look for me that’s nostalgic.

[zenith notch]

I love that you can see a screenshot and tell straight away what console it is from.

Soul.

[zinc dew]

Dude YES

[neat sierra]

Yeah I’m just kidding people can enjoy what they enjoy. Maybe that’s not slowdown and blurry graphics. Maybe a foul mouthed squirrels ‘hilarious’ quips are all you need

[civic wind]

32 bit is what I was hoping the mister core did, mazamars shared some A/B comparisons over DM from his core years ago and I thought it was really nice.

[worn delta]

Could 32bit even be possible on MiSTer and if so what would it take and at what cost?

[zinc dew]

do a lot of games have color banding on N64? I know Shadowman sure does lol.

it’s like all color banding, not even joking

[covert bough]

Shadowman barely runs on switch lol

[slow silo]

I thought it rendered in 32 bit but output in 16? At least, that's what I saw said in one of the Analogue 3D reviews

[slow silo]

I mean, we have a turbo core too. I don't think it's a "no one wants accuracy" thing so much as "It's nice to have the option to ditch accuracy for better playability for the games that chugged on the N64"

[slow silo]

I've been replaying through Mario64 using an English and Enhancement patch for the rumble pak version and noticed a lof of banding in it

[zenith notch]

Had a google for someone that actually knows what they are talking about unlike me "The 15 or 24 Bit colour is what the Reality Display Processor can produce (see Video Interface on p.46). Internally it works with a 32 Bit RGBA based pipeline. Results are stored as 15 or 24 Bit values before being send to the DAC. This is where the 21 bit come into play, as the interface between the RDP and the DAC offers only 7 bit per colour."

[zenith notch]

I wasn't being totally serious in saying that, I was surprised to see so much focus from people on the feature though.

[slow silo]

I assume it's a big one, I haven't finished the MLIG video on the Analogue3d yet but I recall them going over the video settings and saying something like "I know you are all eyeing that overclock setting you see there, but we will get to that later"

[zenith notch]

To be fair it was one of the major marking points in the lead up too.

[slow silo]

And yeah, the MLIG video said that the N64 internally works in 32 bit and that apparently the Analogue can just... output this before it's down-converted?

I thought the biggest marketing point was 4K? Not much videos really talked much about that other than it can do it

[cerulean elk]

I think the issue is...and ill say it in the video...that N64 looks a bit ass at any resolution no matter the FPGA console or core maker

its just a system that begs for CRT

[tepid shuttle]

that's why the A3D not having any analog video options stings as much as it does. of all the consoles that output 15khz video, the N64 arguably benefits the most from a CRT

[slow silo]

I wouyld say the saturn also benefits heavily since it's GPU flat out had built in functions to render images in a way to benefit from a CRT over a composite connection

To make up for not being able to do those effects natively

[cerulean elk]

If analogue would remember DAC existed that would be great

[tepid shuttle]

they won't

[mossy vector]

This has more nuiance. The alpha channel (the A in RGBA) on the N64 RDP is always 5-bit. So when using translucency effects it'll still get banding and dither patterns.

On MiSTer it would be interesting to see the alpha channel expanded to 8-bit internally, but again that too might take up too much space. Tick Tock Clock in Mario64 and the Temple of Time interior in OOT would look much better.

[wanton sun]

I assume the 32bit means the game framebuffer. Internally rendering is wide enough anyway, you just need to save it to some "fake" framebuffer.
I have done the same with PSX already and the response to it was mediocre. You get artifacts in some games, because it reveals that game developers didn't look for what is in the cut off bits. (no surprise)
We could do it easily with the core(maybe 2 days of work), but it will cost additional logic and as this is scarse and no one ever really liked and used it for psx, i never bothered.

One example i will always remember: when using it with final fantasy 8, the lights are so much better, very nice gradient. Unfortunatly the shadows of the characters do flicker in the lowest bit as it's constantly switching between on and off. So in the end I couldn't leave it on.

[slow silo]

Yeah, it's on a per-game basis if it looks good or not. On some it can look better, on some it can expose flaws that the developers relied on that pipeline to hide

I would suggest an alt core if the use of additional logic is that important for possible future accuracy, but we already have an alt turbo core. Maybe roll the feature into that alt core, so we can have an accuracy focused and feature-focused core like Genesis does?

[vapid hawk]

i thought people loved 24bit color on PSX

[slow silo]

I like it, I leave it on IIRC

[vapid hawk]

i think a lot of people do, it only has a few fairly minor issues

[civic wind]

I feel like it’s similar to overclock, because it’s not perfect in every game that’s why it can be toggled off/on

For 32 bit, I wasn’t analyzing it in depth but it was a video I saw (so it had motion), and seemed nice

[zealous knot]

I would love the option. More options the better in preserving gaming history and if an option helps one game look better it's worth it. Wish I knew how to do the fpga programming, I'd love to do all of those sorts of things, sadly I'm an artist

[worn delta]

Feels like this may be worth having as an option for the core on the next board where constraints are not an option, or maybe even on the M64 if it is on the A3D.

[civic wind]

mister is totally fine the way it is, sorry didn't mean to sound demanding or anything. I figured we would see it in m64 since it has bigger fpga, if it doesn't have it then it's all good 👍

[slow silo]

I think it could also work as an option on the overclocked core, that's already trading accuracy for enhancements

[worn delta]

One thing I am curious about is if A3D is allowing the RAM to go above 8MB, it is hard to know for sure with their obtuse menu options, but there is a mention of RAM. When we talked about this way back it seemed maybe only Starcraft would benefit, as everything else seemed to have it's ram hard capped at 4 or 8MB so woudn't make use of it. Starcraft being the exception, as it would render more ships onscreen at once, which could potentially be cool but if you were to massively up the ram then it could potentially get crazy. I remember Robert saying the core did RAM in a way that you couldn't up the limit more.

[tepid shuttle]

would it be feasible for other retail games to be hacked/modified to take advantage of additional RAM?

[zenith notch]

Quest 64 hard mode is a hack that requires the expansion, sure there is one for Goldeneye too.

[worn delta]

Yeah, makes sense for games that can be hacked to utilise 8MB instead of 4MB as that is still within hardware spec. Not sure if any emulator hacks supported more than 8MB, or if that is even an option in N64 software emulators, I assumed at least one must do since the Starcraft enhancement is documented and that must have been seen somehow.

[weak hill]

it would be awesome to have more ram, mario kart 64 and other 4 player games would benefit from it

i meant a mario kart 64 hack, that adds music to all the 4 player compared to original n64 game

[worn delta]

I suspect that the decomps may open the door to more of this, I guess multiplayer may be one instance where even if a single player game is coded in a way to never utilise more than 4MB of RAM, the multiplayer would be hitting limits with 4MB and could maybe benefit going up to 8MB. I have no idea though, this is all way out of my wheelhouse.

[south blaze]

n64 can handle up to 16mb of rdram i believe

[worn delta]

Is that implemented in any emulators? Was 16MB on the computer used to develop the games?

[slow silo]

Don't forget than RAM comes in powers of two, and the N64 used RDRAM which needs to be installed in pairs, so 16MB would be the only other realistic option

If the N64 hardware can't handle more

[uncut gyro]

when platform holders take chances and try totally new things in silicon, controllers, etc, it should be lauded -- even if it's not your thing.

[worn delta]

I think there is a architectural reason the core can't have a 16MB option, Robert would be able to elaborate

[slow silo]

It would be an insanely niche feature anyway

Almost nothing would make use of it

[worn delta]

Probably just Starcraft

[uncut gyro]

with some early MIPS, they literally don't have the pins to physically address more than 2^N amount of RAM, same with 68k platforms like the original Mac and Mac Plus

[south blaze]

i believe it works on project64 if you fork it and add it as an option but it's not officially supported

[slow silo]

Reminds me of with Ares added support for larger controller paks, that was interesting to experiment with how various games did/did not handle it properly.

[amber fjord]

8mb due to imposed hardware limitations, technically it could address a few gb

A 12mb mod was attempted on real hardware and still only 8 was addressed

[worn delta]

Reading some decade old forum posts, apparently the BIOS can recognise up to 16MB, for what that is worth.

[slow silo]

Kinda useless if the CPU itself physically cannot though

(Also I find it amusing and odd how the N64's CPU and GPU ran too hot to not have cooling... but all that was nessary for adequate cooling was to put a square piece of metal on them)

[worn delta]

I have wondered if it would be worth putting heatsinks on chips on old consoles, but can't think of examples (yet) of long term issues of chips running hot

[amber fjord]

yes 16MB is scanned, but the Ram Interface can only keep track of 8MB

https://n64brew.dev/wiki/RDRAM_Interface#Memory_addressing for all the nitty gritty

[wanton sun]

yes, on a larger board there are additional things possible. I have some more ideas I could never implement to enhance image quality because it wouldn't fit.
One thing I would really like is double horizontal resolution. Games often render to 320x240 but VI scales it to 640x240.
Having true 640x240 rendering in the first place would be the real de-blur and likely look good as the game is currently interpolating each second pixel anyway.

[digital remnant]

cant you render 640x480 then? or is 480p not possible?

[drifting hawk]

With the new Analogue product providing the ability to improve performance on the N64, is there a MiSter core or option that does something similar?

[tepid shuttle]

the turbo core provides much of the same results as analogue's overclocking features

[zinc dew]

that’s been there for quite some time too

[spare meadow]

Maybe this large board could be M64?🤔😍

[drifting hawk]

That's what I like to hear. Thank you!

[zinc dew]

There really isn’t much of a difference between the two cores honestly.

Not sure if you used the MiSTer core but it’s been my de facto way to play N64 for years now

[drifting hawk]

I haven't used it yet

[tepid shuttle]

the turbo core is great, it helps a lot with games that slowdown often, though it might not as significant of an improvement as you see in software emulation. the explosions in star fox 64 don't lag the game nearly as much on the turbo core, for example

[zinc dew]

Yeah, if you want to enhance N64, then software emulation is a better option.

That will never not be true.

[magic girder]

Citation needed

[zinc dew]

Citation deez nuts

I means carts, sorry

That was rude of me

[drifting hawk]

I have an N64 and tried playing Perfect Dark on it but the framerate is basically unplayable, and I recall playing Goldeneye on some emulator 15 years ago and that was also a slideshow but I was playing it during class so it was minimized while anything was happening. Recently I saw The World is Not Enough gameplay and wanted to try it, but I'm really just hoping it doesn't run like shit lol

[zinc dew]

omg

n64 club is all about low fps and baseline

Vaseline

[drifting hawk]

Strange club lol

[zinc dew]

I mean that’s how it was tho

also N64 emulation has been really shit until like a few years ago so not surprised goldeneye ran terrible for you

But hey now it’s great and we don’t have any more horseshit plugins to deal with.

[drifting hawk]

Yeah seriously thank god for that

[plush summit]

We use Vick's on the turbo core

[worn delta]

If you enable Alt Cores in update all menu you will get the N64 Turbo core, PD and the Bond games should run much smoother in that

[bright lotus]

in my experience both Perfect Dark and Goldeneye have marginally worse framerate on MiSTer's base core as framerate dips are retained longer, but turbo core is a blessing

-# or I could point you to the PC port of Perfect Dark for the Perfect framerate

[amber fjord]

turbo with performance mod for pd

ge is getting one also

pd is average 20-30fps on intro cutscene hitting upto 60

first level is 45-60fps

playing it

that jump up as i sat still but

its nice

[worn delta]

Nice. Is that in high Res mode?

[amber fjord]

I think performance kills it. Have to check code (branch of pd decomp)

It was all about max speed on real console. Turbo 60 is just side effect

https://gitlab.com/ryandwyer/perfect-dark/-/tree/mods/performance?ref_type=heads to read all about

[lean sable]

I thought they had to axe high res mode for making the decomp as fast as it is. That's just what I read somewhere so not sure if it's concrete

[wanton sun]

everything is possible, but 640x240 rendering is already doubled render pipeline. 640x480 is 4x. At some point the FPGAs get too large and memory bandwidth as well.

[digital remnant]

But you can already render at 640x240 right? Isnt that all there already?

[tepid shuttle]

increasing vertical resolution is an entirely different thing than increasing horizontal resolution

[amber fjord]

So decomp targets is byte matching rom from code, eg functionally identical to original source , mods to that can do whatever, but yes performance mod is normal res only for performance

Just want to clarify as decomp doesn’t change resolutions or anything

[mossy briar]

Does the MiSTer core support 32-bit color output? That seemed like a pretty novel feature on the A3D.

[plush summit]

If you scroll up a bit, Robert says that it doesnt

[mossy briar]

Ah thanks. I did a quick search but didn't see anything. Too many messages this week

[plush summit]

sounds like its a ymmv feature, not worth hogging resources at the moment

[balmy palm]

SSB64: BOARD THE PLATFORMS!

I should try SSB64 again some time...

I have an actual cartridge of it but I'd be most likely to use MiSTer for it now...

[wanton sun]

RDP can also render 640x480, but if a game only renders 320x240 then it would also only reserve a framebuffer in RDRAM for 320x240.
If we would force a second render path to render additional 320x240 pixels, we end with 640x240 which the VI would output anyway. But we would have true pixels instead of blurry bilinear interpolated ones

We would need to reserve memory outside the 9Mbyte RDRAM for these additionals pixels as well as bandwidth. And a second pixel pipeline.
Or save the second pipeline and slow down rendering or increase RDP clock rate to 125 MHz.
Plenty of possibilities.

[hasty musk]

but not on de10 nano board, because of logic gates aee allmost full?

[slow silo]

Did you have the high-res mode on? That turns it into a slideshow. Not that it's exactly a smooth 30FPS without it, but it's much much worse if that's on.

[slow silo]

If you think THAT'S strange you should see Club Mario... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hONNHGNlwHc

[topaz otter]

if your going to play on real hardware you have to set your expectations

thats just the way it is

Rare was just pushing the N64 to its maximum limits, they needed better hardware

remember that we played goldeneye multiplayer with four players, and each person got a quarter of the screen, the framerate was in the low teens when using rocket launchers or putting too many bullet holes in doors, and if you take 320x240 and divide it into quarters, thats what resolution each person got

160x120 maybe?

[lilac portal]

Do I need an Analogue 3D if I already use this excellent core with a RT4k?

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[cunning mantle]

If your prefer real carts, maybe.

[fierce girder]

With most systems, I feel like having access to the entire library is a detriment to actually playing games. But with the N64, the library is the perfect size to have a full set and not feel overwhelmed when choosing what to play

Another reason why I think OG hardware with a flash cart, or the mister with an upscaler is a better choice than the analogue 3D

[green epoch]

it's the perfect size because there are 2 good games.

• Mario 64
• Mischief Makers

[vapid hawk]

i think you mean Quest 64 (PAL) and Quest 64 (NTSC)

[tepid shuttle]

i just curate all of my rom sets. no point in having every single title ever released for any given system; i just keep what i want to play

[fierce girder]

I do the same, but sometimes you come across something you just want to check out for the novelty or for a frame of reference

[fierce girder]

Ahem, that’s Holy Magic Century and Quest 64

It’s called that because you can play the game for 100 years and never get tired of it

[wanton sun]

Yes. I already spend weeks of time to make it fit at all without the extra features. Otherwise we would need a 200k FPGA like the A3D without extra features 🙂 (we have 110k size only)

There is currently ~15% space left so one could argue we have space left. But the issue is that routing gets more and more difficult then and maximum clock rate drops.
We are already running the FPGA above spec. With even more logic used, the CPU will just not work at 93.75 MHz anymore.

[zenith orchid]

So practically speaking, it's full

Still impressive how much was accomplished with the De10 nano

didnt expect psx, or saturn, let alone the N64

[weary palm]

The og Gameboy is 160×144 😆

[brisk drum]

Is this an error message from the core or the game I was playing ?

[quick arch]

it is an error message of the game running on the core

[brisk drum]

Ahh cool , I was playing a diddy Kong racing performance hack ver 1.2 .. wouldn’t work at first so I went into the debug menu and disabled “Instr cache” game loaded up but frame rate was trash but once I turned Instr back on the game was running at a solid 60fps ! Was having a lot of fun until this happened lol

[quick arch]

you used which core (turbo one) ?

[brisk drum]

N64_80MHz PWM

I’m gonna keep messing around with the debug menu it’s fun!

[quick arch]

maybe tried the official one (80MHZ not PWM) to see if the issue happens again if not maybe check with the maintener of PWM

[brisk drum]

There’s a lot going on with this hack I’m amazed it actually boots up and all the extra options are there

Also playing DIddy racing at 60fps can be a bit o fun!

[quick arch]

Yes ! but issue could happens ^^

[brisk drum]

Tried the official 80MHz and it’s behaving exactly like the pwm version .. but the original core loads up fine without having to mess with the debug settings however the frame rate fluctuates between 45 and 60 fps , still an improvement from the original but inferior to the solid 59 to 60 FPS of the 80MHz core .

Gonna see if I can make the game crash on the original core

(Hack crashed on the original core right after finishing a race in the time attack mode)

Anyways adventure mode works on all iterations of the core ! Track mode does not work on any of em .. you can finish a race but it’ll crash as soon as you pass the finish line

[quick arch]

if it is reproducible each time and not on real hardware, it could be interesting to file a bug issue.

[drifting hawk]

There's a high-res mode on og hardware? Either way, no it was not turned on.

[latent dagger]

Select few games had what they called a hires mode where you needed the memory expansion pack, and it would actually render the game out with a larger resolution frame buffer and it would output at 480i instead of 240p

Castlevania Legacy of Darkness has one. It runs pretty smooth with turbo core though which is nice

[drifting hawk]

Ohhhh, I see. Very interesting!

[zenith notch]

Hi res mode on Perfect dark isn't 480i, texture quality is improved and the vertical res is slighty highter, but still progressive.

[zinc dew]

Analogue 64 users right now:

Thanks to @severe quail for making that for me.

[deep beacon]

du…. duoct……. duoctme

[cyan dome]

robby this is a AI meme

(dont mind me im merely doing as robby requested)

[dry oak]

I can’t wait for the mars fpga, I imagine it will blow all other n64 emulation out of the water.

[chilly ember]

I'm looking forward to the dreamcast core

[sullen harbor]

Why can ai never seem to understand how to hold shit

[cunning mantle]

Nothing beats my coalfired Amstrad CPC!!!

[zinc dew]

lol thank you

[slow silo]

Yeah, there were several N64 games with a high-res mode if you had an Expansion Pak, just about all of them tanked the framerate

[mortal panther]

Ahh, the classic GWERTY layout.

[slow silo]

Hey, sometimes you just need two G keys, not like Q is that useful of a letter anyway

(Reminds me of the nonsense in the later 00s/early 10s where keyboard manufactuers for some ungodly reason were removing the delete key and just making th insert key twice as tall in it's place)

I can only assume their line of thinking was "Customers are stupid, they likely only ever hit the delete key by accident and then delete a file they didn't mean to, let's remove it, it will make our keyboard easier to use!"

Who ever deletes stuff after all, right? ... they said, after they hit the delete key on the delete key...

[chilly ember]

Turbo helps but it's not perfect last time I tried the goldeneye one

[slow silo]

https://tenor.com/view/arnold-arnoldchwarzenegger-turbo-time-jingle-all-the-way-gif-11070880

[topaz otter]

the guy depicted in that picture actually posts in this chat, I've seen him

[hushed nova]

that guy's name? Robby

[slow silo]

And everybody clapped

[zinc dew]

lol $270, holy shit

Plus $30 shipping, the Analogue 64 is $300 lol

[green epoch]

can't even play genesis games

[zinc dew]

To be fair that’s how much I paid for a MiSTer back in 2022 (de10-nano + ram). But like that was nearly four years ago.

Damn, the M64 is $200 and free shipping.

2/3 the price!

[lament escarp]

Mister pi was about 250 with shipping when I bought one a year ago.

[slow silo]

I paid $208 with shipping and a wifi/bluetooth adapter from RetroRemake

[magic girder]

I paid £450 for my complete MiSTer setup back in 2023. Could have saved a little bit by e.g. not getting a Noctua fan, fancy heatsink or RTC board, but I wanted to push the boat out

(That’s $590 at today’s exchange rate)

And I regret nothing

[lament escarp]

Noctua fan.🤭 That would blow my eardrums out.

[magic girder]

I can’t hear anything

[lament escarp]

Anything? At all? Probably deaf from your noctua fan.

[magic girder]

It’s just hard to hear anything over the sound of how awesome I am

[zinc dew]

Today I learned everyone bought a MiSTer for way cheaper than me lol

[craggy cradle]

Oh you didn’t get a board when they were $135?

[sullen harbor]

I probably paid more than you because of duties

[magic girder]

I didn’t

[zinc dew]

I got it for $215!

[turbid warren]

the de10 board was definitely the most expensive part

[topaz otter]

yeah but bragging on the internet that you own one

priceless

[sullen harbor]

Yeah I paid 350

[magic girder]

Accept no substitutes

[craggy cradle]

got both of my de-10 nanos before the price increase

[lament escarp]

True.

[slow silo]

The DE-10 was I think $135 or something like that for years since launch, then around... I think 2021, they started rapidly raising the price every few months

The one from Terasic I mean, you can check their page for the de-10 nano on the internet archive and see how it suddenly started to go up in price

[zinc dew]

https://x.com/yoshinokentarou/status/1992719461217157150

吉野@連邦(renpou.com) (@yoshinokentarou)

プレステの名作「スパイロ・ザ・ドラゴン」を名機「ニンテンドー64」に勝手移植するプロジェクトが始動開始!!
昨日は「任天堂の名作がソニーのゲーム機」に、今日は「ソニーの名作が任天堂のゲーム機」に移植が始まって、これは勝手移植大戦争だッッ!!
...

X · Nov 23, 2025, 10:18 PM

@cerulean elk + @fallen sparrow

[mighty gust]

who said that console war ended?

[cerulean elk]

If only there was a build

[upper pivot]

Did this happen because of the mister?

[slow silo]

No idea

[hushed nova]

No, not really

covid supply chain stupidity caused a price increase, and maybe another one at some point due to various other global market stupidity. the thing is once you raise a price like that even if the conditions that prompted it ease up, you're not going to drop it

[fallen sparrow]

Thanks Robby

[magic girder]

This is why we should all buy DE-25 nanos now 🤡

[upper pivot]

https://a.co/d/avNNMlF

Is anyone familiar with this brand of summercart clone being sold on Amazon?

[tepid shuttle]

it's kaico/bitfunx. probably fine, but if you want something really good, get one from phenom mod

[upper pivot]

Yeah I don’t mind the extra $20 if the build quality is superior. Do phenom ship fast?

[tepid shuttle]

i have two from phenom and i remember them shipping pretty quickly. probably within a week at the most

[upper pivot]

Nice, will get it from them

[vague sun]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/5Tlah5-3jds

I got it working on my ED64. Anyone able to add rom header info to the rom? Adding 0x9E5331BE=1 (Viewpoint 2064 Master) to the save_db.txt in /ED64/ makes the rom load.

ROM link in the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNsx4zSvo3U

This tool may help. I'm on mac ATM though, so I can't try it. https://github.com/mroach/rom64

[quick arch]

for making load on MiSTer i added this line on N64-database.txt
61896b034c7630f8c8ead81d4b334165 ntsc|cic6102|eeprom512|rpak # Viewpoint 2064 (Japan) (New Proto - Final Version)

the rom seems to have header also

[worn delta]

Nice one, does it work OK on MiSTer now? Do the previous beta ones run?

[quick arch]

yes it works

[worn delta]

Great stuff! Amazing to get a whole new N64 game, and a shooter no less

[quick arch]

and previous proto also with currently N64-database

7ecf0f0bd2236a38e0abd0b65089d94f ntsc|cic6102|eeprom512 # Viewpoint 2064 - No-AA (Hack) v1 ElectronAsh
a0806dea83c6ae2d211bc815d43e33de ntsc|cic6102|eeprom512 # Viewpoint 2064 - No-Dither+No-AA (Hack) v1 ElectronAsh
9bbabdedcd717c4eded24f4e52177b96 ntsc|cic6102|eeprom512 # Viewpoint 2064 (Japan) (Proto)
7b06e4fbf15112a88c5f9c182fa1264b ntsc|cic6102|eeprom512 # Viewpoint 2064 T+Eng v1.1 Zoinkity
61896b034c7630f8c8ead81d4b334165 ntsc|cic6102|eeprom512|rpak # Viewpoint 2064 (Japan) (New Proto - Final Version)

[worn delta]

Does it require Expansion PAK? Does it use rumble? Assume it doesn't use the memory PAK

[quick arch]

The final version uses rumble (tested it works but it rumbles on very few part of the game) and I don't know for memory pak. it uses normally save eeprom512 for score and tested it works.

[languid dune]

Tested the game out on my end, and it seems pretty fun!

[vague sun]

LIVE NOW playing through Viewpoint 2064 (Prototype) (Master) on the #MiSTerFPGA - https://twitch.tv/owlnonymous

[zinc dew]

The rom loaded but it didn’t get past the Raydvac logo, just black screen for me after

[worn delta]

Have you run update script to update the DB file?

[quick arch]

You need to add the line on N64 database file

I made a PR until it is merged we have to do it manually

[mint shadow]

Can also manually set the System Settings->Save Type option in the core OSD to EEPROM4 if you can't be arsed to manually add it to your DB file

but you have to do that every time you play it until it's added to the DB repo

[quick arch]

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_ROM_Database/pull/28

[magic girder]

Efficient!

[quick arch]

Also put rumble pak

[magic girder]

Does anyone know if this plays on the Analogue?

||I just want an excuse to say “MiSTer wins again! ”||

[quick arch]

Owl puts information to play with ed64 on real hardware so normally it will work on analogue same way I presume

[tepid shuttle]

ok but it would be funny if it didn't

[worn delta]

I thought update all grabbed it for me earlier, maybe I am confused though

[zinc dew]

Thank you. I assumed games just wouldn’t boot so the company logos showing up confused me

Also Ares had the same behavior

[worn delta]

How can accept the PR?

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/N64_ROM_Database/pull/28

[vague sun]

Well it's a great game. Boss battles get really difficult

Lot's of refinement and new stuff from the last proto

[quick arch]

@weary palm when you have time. Thank you !

[digital remnant]

https://www.reddit.com/r/M64/s/kjVewpwsap

Oh man, sorry, but the buttons look so ugly 🙁

[solar slate]

Attention, that new Viewpoint rom is not correct. It was dumped as 256Mbit but needs to be 128Mbit. No big deal it can be trimmed.

[upper pivot]

https://store.phenommod.com/?product=summercart64

Nooooo

It’s back ordered 🙁

[bitter fjord]

Yes, I like the super sleek design but the lack of direct video and the forced weave deinterlace are deal breakers for me

Also I already own 2 MiSTer setups and a real n64 with n64digital so...

[bitter fjord]

Yeah, which makes the 3D a huge waste considering you can't run your own cores on the hardware

[junior pine]

Stupid closed hardware is stupid

[iron bridge]

At least they kept the feets, they lack on the Analog 3D 😂

[junior pine]

At least the Modretro products (as much as I dislike the person behind the company..) use MiSTer cores, which guarantees community bug-fixing and touches from the core authors.
Analogue products are left with bugs forever because they are use proprietary cores no one can fix.

[broken creek]

Is M64 not going to be open? Thought I'd heard that it would be.

[broken creek]

It's the feet. If you kept everything the same but removed the foot protrusions it would look pretty slick.

[iron wren]

I don’t think the hardware will be open source like the MiSTer project is, but the core will certainly be open, and it sounds like (from Robert’s statements and modretro interviews) you’ll be able to sideload community cores no problem.

[tepid shuttle]

this was my first thought upon seeing it. they're kind of obnoxious lol

would've rather them be a lot smaller or just not there at all

i think it's more faithful to the original console design than the A3D but... that doesn't mean it looks appealing

[hidden bolt]

I like the design when it is not shown with the clashing colors, just a non copywrite infringing N64. Suprised they could keep the 199 price for non pre orders. Video was a bit weird though, is that a CG recreation of Goldeneye facility?

I don't think the open nature of modretro is a concession, they usually update their public Chromatic github repo pretty quickly after an update, so is seems to me like they care.

[cyan dome]

more clashing colors please

[unreal sundial]

Not sure if the argument "primarily designed for n64 so it won't be adopted for other cores" holds. The de10-nano was not designed for end users for retro gaming either. The ss1 is a cool looking MiSTer, I ordered it for any of the cores

It has to be made for an enclosure, why not inspired in a given console. Just couldn't find about there being a user port or equivalent (edit: or expansion), guess specs aren't shared yet

[unreal sundial]

sure, it allows expansion, but this can allow too, like the ss1 does (it has a port for the dock). I haven't seen specs on this one yet

if a company had done this from scratch, with good resources, doubt they'd use the de10-nano. MiSTer is a software project and the de10-nano was one board already out there

[solar slate]

Viewpoint 2064 is really not bad but the music really is so boring. This kind of games need a kick ass soundtrack. Without it it makes no fun to repeat the levels which you need to.

[mortal panther]

Oh, if only I could buy it again for that price...

Early 2019.

[digital remnant]

you can also buy the misterpi clone for 99$

[blazing knot]

Which did not exist prior to 2024 when many of us bought ours

[cyan dome]

but you can now!!!!

[zinc dew]

I love the ModRetro 64 design lol

[green epoch]

stop it robby

don’t encourage them