Revert MOEs

[analog zinc]

All i say is i think 3rd moe is inaccessible for many good players who do deserve it with current systems

Take it or leave it 🫡

[hybrid lark]

If they are good and deserve, then they should have it already, if they don't, then they aren't consistent enough, especially when it comes to popular tanks

[analog zinc]

Why is it so hard to just consider maybe wargaming saw it as easy and they just overdo it?

[hybrid lark]

It currently feels the same as on PC, except they don't have day-1 default requirements as we do and instead they use expected values that are often too low

[analog zinc]

Meaning they have lesser moe requirements than us?

[hybrid lark]

For day-1 tanks only. In terms of requirements for other tanks, they do have them way lower than us, but that's due to the bigger playerbase and way weaker tanks that aren't overbuffed

[analog zinc]

So shouldnt the system take that into account?

But i guess its a moe standing based on the

Player base

And ours are better ?

[hybrid lark]

Not better, our game is just easier in many ways

[analog zinc]

Im tempted to be stubborn mainly due to the fact this whole thing is way too frustrating

But i wont be.

[near parcel]

The biggest aspect of the MOE's difficulty is definitely not the way it's calculated. It really doesn't matter. The problem is that the numbers are exorbitantly high due to night games against BOTs and Platoons supporting their teammates to manipulate the numbers you never get when playing solo.
The question is still why WG touched the calculation will forever remain their mystery....

[vital hamlet]

This is incorrect. People playing against bots have almost no direct effect on the difficulty of MOEs

[ebon yarrow]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[simple river]

"MoEs aren't too hard you're just bad" guy who has 1.7k assisted average on all his tier 10s😎😎

[twilit pike]

Easier by teams getting 15-0 within minutes of starting or easier to sit in bot lobbies?

[ebon yarrow]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[spiral basalt]

It’s a very good solution I agree with both of you

That’s not true at all. There were still very difficult tanks to mark. M60, QL, unskinned Valour, cs63, batchat, 50b, t22m, 907 were all hard marks

[hybrid lark]

No one said such here, so I'm not sure who you're quoting

and I don't understand who here has 1.7k assisted average on all of his tier 10s. I assume it's you if you're bringing it here

[hybrid lark]

Are they impossible ? Have you even tried getting them ?

[ebon yarrow]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[hybrid lark]

Not the greatest, but surely good enough to satisfy everyone, even the complainers

[hybrid lark]

Not a single one of them was hard before the changes, especially after the game got updated with 6.0 patch

[ember cedar]

However 90% of players still couldn’t get them. I think most people complain because it has turned from something you can collect if your good enough to a slow and unfun grind that isn’t really worth it

[spiral basalt]

That’s coming from you who is a .1% player. They were still hard for majority of super unicums

[hybrid lark]

Easier in terms of:

• Having overpowered crews
• Not having variety of equipment
• Controller making player's reaction and aim slower, so you don't take as many shots as on PC

Also PC as well has an issue with fast battles and it's based on my own experience on that platform

[spiral basalt]

Agreed

When 4k wn8 tier 10 players struggle to 3 mark tanks like the e5, is7, m48a5, etc… that’s when you know there is a problem

[hybrid lark]

that 90% of players you're talking about, simply don't deserve the 3rd MoE, that's why it's an endgame content. Game is not focused on it, but on the tech tree grind. MoE is an additional content you can grind, but it's said even in the description that it's for top players of a certain tank in the last 14 days

[simple river]

Dropping 0.6% on a bad game then crawling back up with 10 games is what makes it really unenjoyable for me, some marks it really feels like you kinda have to platoon to cheat getting the mark. No offense to anyone who does that but I personally dont think thats fun

Its not possible to get 7k every game and that point its more luck than skill getting 7k dmg games in a row

[spiral basalt]

Yep lol. Last night I got the mark up on the 430 to 93.5 averaging 6k raw and 700 assist every game until then but 3 mediocre games made me loose .7% on the mark

Not even bad games. Mediocre games

[hybrid lark]

Even if I'm the .1% player you say, how does it explain the amount of marks that were earned in that period of time by other players that aren't ".1%" ?

[simple river]

Yeah that's how the 4005 was for me it took 27 games to get the last 4 percent 😬

[spiral basalt]

3 moe isn’t for the .1% of players who are competing for the best dpg’s in the game and marking as fast as they can

[ember cedar]

I know that what I’m saying is they still had a barrier to entry because only the top % of players could get them however now the % of players that can get them have decreased to an even smaller amount but the biggest issue is half of that already small % that can get them don’t even bother because it’s just a mind numbing grind @hybrid lark

[simple river]

I thought that's what 4 moes was for

[spiral basalt]

Even a super uni who can get 4k wn8 at tier 10 should be able to consistently 3 mark most tier 10’s

That’s how it is on pc

[simple river]

Also I never seen so much platooning for assisted damage but I think that's only way they can earn marks now

[hybrid lark]

wn8 has nothing to do with MoE and such player wouldn't mark a reward tank if he struggles here on console

[ember cedar]

Koza isn’t wrong by saying they should be for top players I’d hate to see billyjoe467 with a 3 marked E4 but I think they still should be less punishing to your social life

[spiral basalt]

Yeah I agree but right now a very good player will still need to play over 200 games to 3 mark an e4

[simple river]

Yeah its a chore to mark now

[uneven axle]

I wouldn't say "nothing." A line can definitely be drawn between high wn8, high damage + assist, and high base xp. You can't really find anyone without some correlation between those values.

[spiral basalt]

This.

[fiery summit]

Gold mark time any assist slaves want to be with me?

👀

[twilit pike]

[fiery summit]

Reminder any attempt to steal my damage while platooned will result in a insta platoon kick

[twilit pike]

So do I just sit there nd do nothing?

[fiery summit]

Your learning

😭

[twilit pike]

Wow, um sure I dm you my gt and we can play!

[ebon yarrow]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[spiral basalt]

Ok bro

[vital hamlet]

That’s how it is for season pass tanks. If WG made an identical CS63 but premium and gave it away in a season pass, it would be a joke to 3 mark and easyish to 4 mark

[spiral basalt]

Nah

4 mark will still be very hard

3 mark yes

[versed laurel]

moe

[simple river]

.

[analog zinc]

Exactly his arguement is basically this because it was easy for top 200 players of the game it shouldbe inaccessible for the rest of us

[ripe fulcrum]

Sadge

[simple river]

.

[covert hinge]

.

[simple river]

gotta keep this thread alive and at the top 😭🙏

[cunning flax]

real

[olive charm]

We almost at 3k messages

[analog zinc]

Interesting

[peak swallow]

I

We need 45 more messages

44

43**

42**

41

Wait

39

[simple river]

3k messages and still no response from WG

[peak swallow]

Not quite 3k

[cunning flax]

Let's help it get to 3k for the release of the new season then

It's only 33 messages

[analog zinc]

😐

[frail cargo]

I crying for moe

[ebon yarrow]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[worn grove]

Just throw your life away for cs gold mark ez

[peak swallow]

Bleebo

Dude why is this #1 trending on gifs?!?

https://tenor.com/view/tang916-happy-easter-easter-bunny-dancing-dancing-bunny-gif-25366607

[vital hamlet]

WG did respond

The response was that the difficulty is intentional and impossible marks are and always have been a consequence of the calculation and they see no reason to change that

[simple river]

Lol

[winged heart]

🙂

Yeah they aren't going to change it.

[cunning flax]

20 messages away from 3k. Sheeeesh

[candid mesa]

I'm trying to figure out how common you guys think late night bot matches are. I play a lot between 11pm-2am EST and I get MAYBE one predominantly (~7 bots on each team) bot match every other night.

[cunning flax]

See if you play between those hours on PST then it's bot central. Even more so in CW.

[candid mesa]

So I need to play at 5am EST to farm my MOEs? Eff that, I like my sleep.

[cunning flax]

Oh fully agreed. But there are some people who will either
A) play during those hours
B) Switch servers to go to EU or NA during its low pop hours

[winged heart]

The real question is now that everyone has been marking under the new system and not happy about it, what happens if they decide to go back to the old system.................................

[stuck gull]

Like this 3rd party website says I need to do 5.5k dmg and when I do 8/9k dmg a game it goes up like 0.3% what’s up with this ? Any ideas anyone

[simple river]

That's because that's how marks work now

[cunning flax]

We love needing to do better than everyone else including ourselves. Fun concept

[ebon yarrow]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[peak swallow]

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

WE DID IT BOIS 3k MESSAGES!!

[cunning flax]

🥳

[ebon yarrow]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[cunning flax]

Maybe in a future update. You know the one when there is an actual balance patch, clans get features, and so on?

[simple river]

Maybe they'll start charging gold to get MoEs

That's when they'll get improved

[indigo orbit]

A good start to lower the mark requirements should be to disable mark progress when either in a bot lobby or playing in platoon. That way values are not inflated by people playing at non-peak hours or platooning 2 TDs with a light/medium

But i guess the amount of responses this topic has WG has stopped reading/caring at this point?

[simple river]

Agreed

[steep ocean]

did they care to begin with?

[indigo orbit]

I'm not sure, i am new here 🙂

[wooden lintel]

We desperately need 100/98 95/93 85/83 65/63 template, this would solve the majority of the issues regarding unmarkable tanks and underplayed vehicles with ridiculous requirements.

[steep ocean]

okay uv

Kappa

[spark sluice]

We still read it 🙂

[peak swallow]

Will you guys ever add something to where we can pause on our Moe so we can play with no worries about doing great or not? My main reason being is that i had one of my tanks to 95.61% at one point, and granted it has 3 stars to signify that, but its now down to about 90%~, id like to be able to pause it ONLY WHEN youre at 65-70% 80-85% and 95-100%

[opaque onyx]

So it’s just the “stopped caring” part then

[lavish yoke]

Just make it so that when damaging bots don't count towards Moe. Problem solved

[worn grove]

Farming the cash cows is a much more important matter. 💰

[candid mesa]

Locking players out of the MOE system for playing with friends is a bad move. And WG have already said that they don't want to penalize players who are only able to play off of peak times.

[pallid bough]

The players who play off-peak times penalize the players who don't by inflating the MoE numbers botfarming

They penalise most of the playerbase for the few who play off peak

[candid mesa]

Intent matters. Are you going to screw over the night shift worker because he can only play between 4am and 6am, just because Steve Superuni chooses to chug a monster and stay up until that time to farm marks?

A more realistic solution might be to exclude players who have already 3 marked the vehicle from MOE calculations.

[pallid bough]

Intent doesn't change the fact that's what's happening

The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many 🤣

Maybe your idea could work though

[candid mesa]

100% guarantee you the 'many' are players who don't play for marks and the 'few' is the vocal minority on reddit and this discord

Reddit subs and discords are always a small fraction of a player base

[pallid bough]

Yeah but none of that changes the facts bot games in the middle of the night are inflating the MoE requirements. Bots shouldn't count towards MoE in my opinion

[slender hedge]

To be fair, they presented the community with a solution and the community basically said "get 🤬ed"

Even though the solution was actually pretty damn good

[simple river]

I really don't know what was wrong with MoEs beforehand?

[slender hedge]

I don't remember the explanation

One of the biggest problems with marks is that their difficulty depends entirely on both the statistical viability of the vehicle itself and how the community uses said vehicles

[sturdy acorn]

Cmon boys

I know someday this will happen

[ebon yarrow]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[vital hamlet]

Players intentionally farming bots for MOEs don’t really increase the requirements for everyone else

[pallid bough]

Exactly how it works, more damage against bots = higher average for Marks 🤣

Botfarmers push the average up. I don't know how that's hard to get your head around

More botfarmers = higher average

[uneven axle]

I don't understand the clown emoji on this post. He is right, if the assumption is that there are not that many people doing this. So Bob the bot farmer gets himself a 3 mark. How many of this guy actually exists in the population? Enough to manipulate the curve? I honestly doubt that.

[pallid bough]

1 guy is enough to skew the stats on a tank with high enough combined. The game only has around 30 players 🤣

Your own score can raise the marks the next day 🤣 you end up competing with yourself

Now if it had a giant playerbase then maybe I could agree with you. I've seen it firsthand.

[uneven axle]

If that is the case, the system is far too reactive and needs a ground-up retooling.

[pallid bough]

And it shouldn't take your own scores into the big magical equation. Your own scores should be separate. It says better than 65, 85 or 95 percent of other players so it shouldn't add the individual players score into the equation when working it out

Player v everybody else, should be how it's done
Not everybody's score including your own

[still walrus]

You should delete it as this isnt how it works

[pallid bough]

That's how they tell us it works, I know it doesn't though

Goes off the best performer

[still walrus]

Who is they? Where did you get the screenshot from? Looks like new Google ai and bing with chat gpt that messed uo big time

Best performer gets deleted

[pallid bough]

They won't tell anyone how it works

[still walrus]

They did

[pallid bough]

From WG site

[still walrus]

Misterspg went into very deep detail

[pallid bough]

Where?

[still walrus]

Here on the server?

[pallid bough]

Lead me to the promised land

Show me, link???

[still walrus]

@pallid bough thread in #archived-ask-the-team

[pallid bough]

How far up

[still walrus]

Whole thread there's many places

Its a mess though

It was an organic discussion

Basically how Moe works.

Have 111 results. And order them from lowest dmg to highest dmg

0
0
45
194
...
7802
8900
10571

Remove a certain percentage of the best results, the MAP DELTA. That's what got changed with the MOE changes. With 6.0 matches on good and bad maps got closer. They remove less maps from calculation.

Let's assume they remove the best 11%.(we don't know)
That leaves us with 100 results.

The top result will be 100% moe
The 95th best result will be 95% moe

The gap between the marks is linear.

[pallid bough]

It's a rolling avg of your last 100 battles, so sometimes when you have a good game amd it drops. Maybe your 101st game that's just dropped off was a monster game. I understand all this. Botfarmers still inflate what's required was the only point I was making

[still walrus]

That's the second part of the calculation

[pallid bough]

I'm not here to argue how they work just making a point bot games should not count

[still walrus]

It's a EMA exponentiell moving average.

It doesn't work with "good matches dropping"

[pallid bough]

But it does though, cos it only uses your last 100 games

[still walrus]

Yes. I'm all for it that bot matches shouldn't count.

[still walrus]

No

[pallid bough]

If it only uses your last 100 games how is it no?

[still walrus]

100 was just a number to explain things easier without complicated math.

Old matches have little to no effect

[pallid bough]

I'm after genuine insight

Enlighten me

It's not though it's always been 100 games

MisterSPG says so in the thread u linked

[unkempt flame]

Technically its not your last 100 battles but all you played, but for simplicity its always said like 100, because older ones barely has any influence anymore

[pallid bough]

That's not what @dawn gull says

[spark sluice]

Not going to go into details here but wanted to clarify the 2 things mentioned.
1: People farming bots increases the requirements for others.

• Correct. If they are putting up high damage games, those matches are part of the data that is used to set the requirements.

2. MoE requirements are linear.

• False. It's the average of the different groups of data for each bracket. Its not a linear system.

[still walrus]

Ah ok than I got that wrong. Thanks

[pallid bough]

Thank you muchly @spark sluice somebody knows what they're talking about

[still walrus]

@pallid bough

It doesn't store the hundred last matches.

It's just a number to make the math work. You don't drop good matches after 100

The reason why certain tanks like CS and VZ are so difficult is because the average player of these tanks is way above average skill level. When WG makes the weaker players play more CS and VZ moe will get much easier because it will make them remove more of the good matches.

[pallid bough]

You said @dawn gull explained it in detail, I screenshotted his words amd now you want to disagree with that 🤣🤣🤣

[still walrus]

It's 100 battles but its not 100 actual battles with results and order

[pallid bough]

It either is or isn't 100 battles it can't be both at the same time

Schrodinger's Marks of Excellence 🤣🤣🤣

[still walrus]

The formula I gave you is the correct one. That's all there is

It can't store the results and order and matches

[pallid bough]

As I said mate I'm not bothered how they work and @spark sluice confirmed the point I was making

[still walrus]

The 100 matches comes from N wich is part of k

It's just 100

It has no way to know the order

[pallid bough]

So it just takes my 100 best of all time?

[still walrus]

No

[pallid bough]

Just the most recent 100?

[still walrus]

Remind me again this evening. I can make some excel math to show you

I think it's easier to see than explain the math

[pallid bough]

I'm good mate honest, my understanding works for me, and again I'll reiterate the point I was making. Botfarmers inflate the MoE for everybody else. Bot games shouldn't count in my opinion

[wooden lintel]

@pallid bough I think it’s interesting that you entered into this post with a completely incorrect understanding of how MoE works.

[still walrus]

They do but not to the extent we think.

I'd say its less than 50 dmg

Wouldnt make taran anymore easier

However I believe that bot matches shouldn't count towards personal moe. I'm there with you

Not that I would be able to get taran or anything

[pallid bough]

Same here mate 🤣

[pallid bough]

I never had a completely incorrect idea on how they work. I've got multiple 3 marks, maybe not tier 10s like you big shots.

Rolling avg of last 100 games damage standing compared to other players

[vital hamlet]

A single players combined has nothing to do with how MOEs are calculated

Bot farmers marginally push up the MOE target

[wooden lintel]

Also I believe we are overseeing what is really ‘broken’ with the current system. Requirements for tanks have led to unmarkable vehicles. This isn’t a feature of the system, it’s just that this system doesn’t work properly. Should there be hard marks? YES, unachievable NO changes should be adjusted to 100/98 95/93 85/83 65/63 this would fix the majority of our issues. Also these changes would be in the backend to make the ridiculous requirements more achievable but still display 100% moe in-game and not 98% for 4th.

[pallid bough]

@spark sluice has just confirmed they do a few posts up. Open your eyes

[vital hamlet]

Marginally

[pallid bough]

I agree Marks should be hard as in very hard. Only 5 percent of players should be able to 3 mark a tank. They aren't meant to be easy but botfarmers and botfarming bring it all into disrepute

[still walrus]

here, this is your EMA, your MOE dmg after 101 matches with 1000 dmg

it doesnt reach 100

it will never

[wooden lintel]

5% of players is too big of a percentage, only 1% maybe 0.5% of the player base actually get 3 marks

[vital hamlet]

The problem is we have super low player population. 5% of VZ players might 3 mark it but the average VZ player has like a 57% win rate so that’s a very small number of players

[pallid bough]

I agree with you there

[still walrus]

this is your ema when then very first match is 5 times as high not a big difference

[wooden lintel]

Average player has a 49% winrate or below unfortunately

[vital hamlet]

Yes and those players don’t play the VZ

[still walrus]

average vz player has like 56

[pallid bough]

Top 5 percent in any given tank should have 3 marks if the equations etc worked as advertised....on all tanks

[still walrus]

the delta from you to average VZ player is just smaller

[pallid bough]

There'd be no impossible marks

[wooden lintel]

This is correct

[vital hamlet]

It’s the main problem. MOEs weren’t bad before bc we didn’t have 2 modes splitting the playerbase

[vital hamlet]

WG confirmed that it is working like that. It’s just that the top 5% of the top 2% of players is a very small number on certain tanks

[pallid bough]

Well how come there's tanks that the top players are whingeing that it's impossible to get them

[still walrus]

if i had anything to say id make the EMA requirements artificialy drop by 1% per month we havent had one mark the tank,

until we have it at 1 mark per month

when we have two we raise it

[wooden lintel]

Another thing to mention is that when you go for 4th mark and you don’t get it done within a few days, you WILL be over marking the tank by several percent depending on the vehicle.

[still walrus]

Whats also very interesting to see is that a bad match will have a much greater effect on the EMA than a good match, because the difference from 5k to 0 is much larger than 5k to 7k

[wooden lintel]

One thing I’ve noticed is that the last 14 days of data thing is certainly not the only thing at play when it comes to letting your data fall out of this window, I have done this recently in about 6 tanks where I’ve lost about 5% on each tank above 95% while preparing to 4th mark. I leave the tank as my data is ‘breaking’ the MoE, 2 weeks pass I play it again I drop a further 1%. I check to see if anyone is doing anything to raise the mark and no one is even close. Nice system I guess. If I was to wait 90 days I would gain some of my percent back though.

[still walrus]

It could be multiple things. Less weaker players playing results in fewer matches wich will result in less good matches being removed. That makes the moe go up.

Technically it's possible for us work out how much battles they remove but it's not worth the hassle to make hundreds of unicums play a very rare tank like one of the hotwheel tanks and log the matches and moe progresse in order

[wooden lintel]

Here is a perfect example

[pallid bough]

See that to me screams 😱 bot farmer

Unless they're the only good player playing it

[still walrus]

The mark Website lists about 8000 battles, guess thats over 2 weeks. Not sure how accurate it is since Negri stopped.

Don't think the 53 matches will have a significant effect since most matches will be removed from the calculation and slightly less got matches will stay.

[wooden lintel]

Think what you like, I stream my games.

[still walrus]

I have no reason to believe its not legit 😂4.2k is bloddy impressive

[pallid bough]

I didn't know it was you 🤣 I did add a second part where I said unless they're the only good player playing it........ 😳

[wooden lintel]

It’s incredibly frustrating to try and mark currently. That MoE is at 95% btw 😂

[pallid bough]

@wooden lintel

[still walrus]

Not bad after 50 matches

[spiral basalt]

Monkah

Is that vs bots or real players?

3.6k dpg at tier 6 💀

[indigo orbit]

It's not locking anyone out from playing with friends it would simply just freeze your mark % whilst in a platoon, when you want to carry on marking your tank you can simply play solo. Thats also part of the issue with current matchmaking is people's 'playing with friends' mentality is often some combination of toxic tanks..

[dawn gull]

Like Max, I do read this thread and other threads in #1024332743070453853 and #1201556402477469797 - I don't normally response to all of them, because there aren't enough hours in the day.

For MoE specific stuff, I usually look at the thread that exists in #archived-ask-the-team for questions that I can answer. This thread, I normally scan to see if there are reasonable suggestions presented or more information about "why" people think its too hard.

[wooden lintel]

A few month’s ago on stream I remember there being mentioned that discussions were being held to improve the MoE system in the future, is this still the case?

[dawn gull]

TBH, we internally discuss most topics on a regular basis here - eg: "players want +/-1, can we do that? no, same reasons as before. MoE? Here's some ideas on changes we can make, etc, etc".

It takes a long time to turn those discussions into things that players see.

[spiral basalt]

What is the ratio of players 3 marking pre moe changes compared to post moe changes? Specially for ww2?

Is it higher than before, about the same or less?

[wooden lintel]

Understood, how do you feel currently about the system for MoE’s? I remember you originally mentioned the idea of 100/98 95/93 85/83 65/63. I personally feel this is our best solution but was wondering what your thoughts are?

[spiral basalt]

I vaguely remember someone asking “oh what do we get if reach 100% on the mark after that happens?”

[wooden lintel]

Unfortunately a large percentage of the player base do not understand what an MoE is or the system of how you get it, I remember asking complete randoms about it and they said it was blocked damage and wins

[spiral basalt]

Yep

That’s why WG consider it an end game goal but now it’s not even an end game goal. It’s a top 1% goal

[wooden lintel]

These same people voted on MoE poll and didn’t know what they’re voting for. The whole point of this post was to have another survey but many forgot about that, as our original one and one that followed were poorly done.

[spiral basalt]

Yep. This post alone is evident if that lol. It has over 400 reactions for changing moe and it’s generally players who have a good understanding of MOE’s and how to earn them

I will never understand how WG consider MOE’s an end game goal but give everyone an opinion on it. That’s like going up to the random fifa player and asking them what rules should be placed on pro players playing in pro tournaments

[wooden lintel]

On a very marginal level some players have learnt what it actually is now but this doesn’t solve the problem at hand lol

[spiral basalt]

Nope. Nor does the lack of players playing the game help either

[wooden lintel]

We discussed this very early on in the post but it was met with a defensive manner instead of speculation

[spiral basalt]

Check #892485326285709383 @wooden lintel

[tender yacht]

I think it's fine.

[wooden lintel]

One upvote = One prayer for MoE change

[tender yacht]

Don't think it needs a change it's fine as it is

The mark system is balanced how I see it

[still walrus]

Until you realize even the very best player can't mark taran

Do we have legit taran by now?

[spiral basalt]

Let me guess you are a Cold War main?

[simple river]

He is

[tender yacht]

I play both

[spiral basalt]

In the last 90 days how many ww2 tanks have you 1/2/3/4 marked or have attempted to mark?

[still walrus]

Then mark taran, do like 7k average and still don't get taran mark

[simple river]

No offense but you only have two ww2 3 marks

[cunning flax]

You heard it here first guys. There are tanks where 4 marks still have not been done but its totally fine

[spiral basalt]

Yes

WG think it’s fine

[simple river]

[tender yacht]

Don't have it.

[spiral basalt]

. @tender yacht

[still walrus]

I mean it is sideffects of how the system works and it works as Intended. I bet without cw mode marks would be more fine

[cunning flax]

There is no world where 4 marks representing being the top player should be unobtained. There MUST be a top player

[spiral basalt]

There isn’t

[livid obsidian]

Nah doesn’t need to be changed

[spiral basalt]

AVRE and Taran are constantly up there as the 2 most popular tier 10’s but no one has either of them 4 marked

@cunning flax

[still walrus]

Mark isn't a sign of top player. It's a sign of how by much you're better then the average playing the tank

[cunning flax]

When being the best player in a tank just isnt enough

[spiral basalt]

Another Cold War main?

[simple river]

Love that the people who don't want marks changed are all cold war players lol

[tender yacht]

No I haven't. All I'm saying it shouldn't be easy.

[livid obsidian]

Definitely

[spiral basalt]

So if you have not attempted any how do you know how difficult they are?

[still walrus]

Cw marks are fine

[spiral basalt]

🤔

[still walrus]

When we complain about marks we do complain about ww2 marks

[simple river]

Cold war marks are fine because you are competing against players with a thousand battles

Not actually competent players with brains

[spiral basalt]

Cold War marks I’d argue are really too easy

[still walrus]

Also he has 10 ww2 marks combined. Like all 2 and 1 marks added

[livid obsidian]

I agree, there is some rough cw players out there

[livid obsidian]

Stop ittt 😂😂

Ww2 marks easier

[spiral basalt]

lol

[still walrus]

Do taran

You'd be the first

[simple river]

It is lol it took me 8 battles in 292 to go from 90->95 🙂

[still walrus]

World first

[spiral basalt]

No point arguing with trolls who bot farm at night

[livid obsidian]

Taran is gold marked

[spiral basalt]

No it’s not

[livid obsidian]

Yes it is

[still walrus]

By Kellen on day1

Doesn't count

[spiral basalt]

.

[simple river]

Kingsman has 0 ww2 3 marks btw

[cunning flax]

Aint no way bro said WW2 marks easier. Even as a casual i can say that CW is way easier

[still walrus]

It hat easy moe

[dreamy badge]

Wild statement

[livid obsidian]

I got a platinum marked sturmtiger

[still walrus]

It almost doubled in the requirements on day2

[simple river]

Oh yup he's just trolling

I'm just blocking

[spiral basalt]

@still walrus you’re arguing with 2k wn8 ww2 players turned into self proclaimed good Cold War players. No point arguing with them

[still walrus]

I bet he didn't know bout easy moe on day1

[spiral basalt]

I think it’s funny how all the self proclaimed good Cold War players have sub 2k wn8 in ww2 but actually good ww2 players have similar wn8 in cold while also not farming bots 24/7

But that’s for another day 🙂

[simple river]

Cold war marking is legit easy mode you can get them while also doing complete trash

[hybrid lark]

interesting take 🙂

[dreamy badge]

WW2 2 mark is CW gold mark

[spiral basalt]

Not everyone wants to play 1k games for a gold mark 😞

[livid obsidian]

So what exactly do u guys want changed with the MOE? Cba to scroll up last 3000 messages

[hybrid lark]

gold mark doesn't require 1k games, it depends on how good you are
I have tier 10s that took me less than 100 games to gold mark as an example

[spiral basalt]

100 games to go up 5% ?

[cunning flax]

#1053436349564342362 message

[spiral basalt]

That’s not too much for you?

[hybrid lark]

50-60 to be exact

[hybrid lark]

I'm not the best, so that's correct number

[spiral basalt]

So you’re 3 marking them under 50 games? Or am I missing something here?

[hybrid lark]

I think you're missing something, I didn't say anything about 3 marking

[simple river]

Not everyone wants to get 1.8k assisted on every tier 10 to achieve 3 moe either 🙂

[spiral basalt]

Oh right I misinterpreted your statement. You’re saying it’s taking you 50-60 extra games after 3 moe for 4 moe correct?

[hybrid lark]

mostly, based on my experience

[simple river]

When 3k wn8 players can't get 3 moe without platoon rigging its definitely too hard 🤷‍♂️

[dawn gull]

...

[spiral basalt]

And which tier 10’s have you gold marked?

[dawn gull]

when the tank involved is only played by 3k wn8 players?

[hybrid lark]

WN8 isn't a good measurement of skill

[dawn gull]

I'm not surprised

[simple river]

It's the closest we have

[dawn gull]

(agree that it isn't a measurement of skill ignoring that for the discussion purpose)

[spiral basalt]

Wn8 can only say so much. Better to look at other stuff like combined damage for marks imo

[hybrid lark]

You can check on my console.worldoftanks.com profile

[dawn gull]

Mark difficult has always been a relative comparison between you and the other players who play that tank.

For historical purposes, look at the problems that some of the PG players had 3 marking the AMX Chaffee back in 2016 at the height of the competition system. Look at how PC players have difficulty marking clan reward tanks

[simple river]

I just think if you have to get over 1.4k assisted on average its a bit mental at that point . You have to be platooning to get the 3 moe these days its just not fun. I never remember it ever having to be a full on sweat shop to achieve them

Cs63 3 moe is pretty much impossible

[spiral basalt]

Agreed but it’s not just some tanks like on pc. It’s majority of tier 10’s on console

It also doesn’t help that the matchmaker has 7+ 850 alpha td’s almost every game but that’s another discussion

[simple river]

At least to me I always thought 3 moe was supposed to be for top 5% of players

Seems to be ever since moe change its for 1% of players, and the 4% need to platoon to cheat the marks

[spiral basalt]

3 moe literally means you have done better than 95% of battles in a tank over a certain period of time

That’s about it

[hybrid lark]

That's why I think MoE is in a good state currently, because it became "rewarding" the same way as on PC.

Of course I would like to have games against AI excluded from the calculations, but since it doesn't have a big impact on the MoE reqs I don't think it has higher priority than changes that are actually needed in the game (or just new content)

[spiral basalt]

Playing 1250 games for a gold mark on the rino is rewarding?

[dawn gull]

The request about bot matches has been forwarded to the people - which is about all I can say about that

[simple river]

Excluding bots and platooninh would definitely help the mark requirements without changing the system tbh

[spiral basalt]

Playing 400 games to 3 mark a vz55 while being top 3/4 player in it all time is rewarding?

[hybrid lark]

I didn't play 1250 games for a gold mark. I've played this tank before gold moe was even a thing and I was one of not many who decided to even touch this tank pre-changes

[simple river]

🙂 you don't have to be one of the best players to 3 moe btw

[hybrid lark]

400 games is nothing if you consider how good people perform with it. It's basically a beast in hands of any players, so the requirements are also higher

[spiral basalt]

400 games is over 20 hours of grinding

Maybe even more

[simple river]

When you have to sacrifice your social life to get 3 moe it's too hard

Just saying

[ember cedar]

I think people should remove themselves from the equation when disputing this because it will just be about how good that player is and not the system

[spiral basalt]

Im just asking about ppl’s experience when they were marking a tank. Thats all

But I agree with koza and Stanzyck that bot games should be removed from moe calculations

Removing it from calculation but allowing it to count for moe % would be a win win for everyone

[ember cedar]

An above average player 1,600 wn8 probably needs to sweat for 70%

[hybrid lark]

But what does it have to do with the difficulty ? It's called grind for a reason. To grind a TT line back in the day you also had to spend a lot of hours grinding. Both things are focused on grinding something. The whole game is focused around grinding, so I don't understand what do you exactly expect

[simple river]

3 moe is not for the top 3 players bro

That's why 4 moe was added

[hybrid lark]

If you had to, that's your problem, I'm sorry for you then

[dawn gull]

no... not true

[spiral basalt]

Exactly. 3 moe has gone from being something achievable if you are good enough to becoming a painful grind accessible only to the top 1%

[dawn gull]

4th MoE was added because people kept posting in the forums "I got 100%, can I get something"

[spiral basalt]

If you were decent enough before you could still 3 moe every tank in the game but it was a painful grind but for the top 1% it wasn’t a grind it was not a 300 game grind.

[hybrid lark]

In other words it gone from being easily achievable for many players that can't get it now, due to the changes that made it more rewarding and rare

[simple river]

Yeah 3 moe used to be fun to grind for because it wasn't so punishing for one bad game. Now its debate if it is less fun than the coal mines

[dawn gull]

4th mark means that "my last 100 battle results are better than the everyone's battle results in that tank over the last 2 weeks"

[hybrid lark]

MoE is about consistency, if you drop a lot, then you're simply inconsistent. That's not painful, that's how it's designed

[spiral basalt]

Lots of factors can affect consistency. Playing 10 games to go up 1% just to drop all that because the base was capped out in 2 minutes is not your fault 🤷‍♀️

You literally can not control that as a player

[simple river]

Sorry bro I guess I don't deserve 3 moe because I am not the best player in the tank I guess

(Not platoon rigging)

[dawn gull]

Do you mean your team wins by capping? because if you mean other team wins by capping, yes, you can control that

[spiral basalt]

Yes my team wins by capping

[cunning flax]

should have been by the enemy cap to push your team out of the circle. Its on you bro sorry

[dawn gull]

how often is that a problem though? is that like an every 3rd match thing or is only on days that are divisibly by 17

[spiral basalt]

That’s just one example of many that happen

Another example would be bad map rng or getting into a lobby with 10 tier 10 td’s on each team

[simple river]

When you go up .3% every game every 3 games is pretty detrimental

[cunning flax]

Happens at least every 20 games for me. But thats kinda anecdotal

[dawn gull]

the tier 10 td one boggles me because if I was a mark hunter, I'd be loading up my lights to take advantage of spotting damage

[hybrid lark]

But that's not a part of the MoE design's problem

[spiral basalt]

Nope that is an external problem that makes an already hard achievement near impossible

[slender hedge]

The problem is marks don't have a definitive "difficulty"

Their requirements are in the hands of the playerbase and that's the problem

[spiral basalt]

I wish that was the case 😢

[simple river]

390 upvotes just ignored I guess GG

[dawn gull]

as I said in the #archived-ask-the-team thread, I have an mental list of where the pain points are - feel free to come up with your own and post them

[spiral basalt]

The 100/98, 95/93 suggestion seems the most logical in my opinion 🤷

[dawn gull]

at some point, the chips have to fall where they land ... I can't change the MM to make perfectively composed teams if players are all queuing up with just a specific type of tank

[cunning flax]

def beats outright disqualifying bot games/platooning.

[dawn gull]

that's a potential solution, I'm interested in getting the problem more defined

[spiral basalt]

Could also help if WG do not force players to play toxic classes like TD’s and lights for contracts*

[cunning flax]

Tell whoever makes the contracts to stop flooding the MM with the same tank type fr

[dawn gull]

because nother potential solution would be to remove MoEs entirely - not saying that we would do that, but it would solve the problem as well

[cunning flax]

Just open contracts to all classes, boom stress relieved

[slender hedge]

Personally the idea of not losing Mark % would be more appealing, (obviously this isn't without it's problems but it's alot better than what we are dealing with now)

[spiral basalt]

This would be funny

[slender hedge]

Everyone at WG and their families would have to go into hiding if that happened

[candid mesa]

Remove tanks, that would fix it

[dawn gull]

today is april 1st, I have a little leeway on making jokes on the internet

[spiral basalt]

Would it be possible to introduce a second chance system or something like that? For example if you drop more than say .5% in your last 2 games you can not drop moe what so ever on your 3rd game.

[slender hedge]

Even as a joke the WoT community isn't mature enough to handle that idea

[dawn gull]

again, I'm going to stick with my earlier guns and say that any meaningful suggestions/comments should go into the #archived-ask-the-team thread - and for the issue around contract composition, I went looking at #1024332743070453853 and I don't see anything on the first page relating to it.

If there are some concerns about the contracts, then make the threads, contribute to them, give feedback

[dawn gull]

World of Artillery Mode is now permament and the only game mode you can play. All SPGs, All the Time. EZ marks! 😉

[spiral basalt]

Finally I can 3 mark Cgc 🙏

[candid mesa]

Tier X games now take the full match time thanks to reload times

And more than half of each team is still alive at match end 💀

[dawn gull]

okay, I'm going to go off to implement the reload rate buff to SPGs because I think that firing 1 shell every 3 seconds in an Tier X SPG is just ... fine 🙂

On a more serious note, have to head off to do "other" stuff (my normal day job to be exact), so I'll let you all be ... remember #archived-ask-the-team if you really want me to see something

[rich salmon]

Hi. Surely its quite clear that the recent SHPTK contract having only one class for 600k+XP etc is causing most lobbies to have half teams composition of TD's?
This happened when Tusk contract was mainly just Light tanks but it was changed. With a new TD line incoming its only going to extend this period of overweighted TD games?
Does it really need a specific post its surely common sense to mix up the contracts for the health of the game?

[indigo orbit]

Agreed, there was also alot of complaints back then about the number of lights in matchmaking, sometimes even stretching to 6 on each team at high tiers, which makes the game unplayable and not fun. Surely you have the data to show we are currently in a TD pandemic right now, with 9 of the top 10 most played tanks right now been TDs

[indigo orbit]

How can the MoE system be in a good state when there are tanks that are literally unobtainable to mark? And even the best players to ever play this game can't do them

[dawn gull]

IMHO, it's best to keep a feedback topic to a single thing - people would suddenly get confused if this topic suddenly became them main one for feedback on the Tigers season for example. I do believe that I've seen a thread created for this, so I encourage you to use it

[wooden lintel]

I think we have all learnt something from this and tbh this thread is too far gone and no change will be coming to the system. The goal was to have a fair MoE survey so we could make changes accordingly, we did not achieve that with the biggest push on Discord for change ever. Thank you to everyone who supported the thread and had a good laugh doing it but I am closing this now as we are going in circles. I’ll close it in 10 mins for anyone who wants to screenshot any info. GGs (just remember how good this game was, once upon a time)

[dusty schooner]

nuke it @wooden lintel

[wooden lintel]

5

4

3

2

1

[simple river]

can u even delete threads

Either way I think you are right unfortunately. There is no point arguing it anymore clearly community feedback is worthless, the people in charge no longer care , its gg