r-i-i-c

[stoic spoke]

I see, so only cursing when schedule is free and/or have drones to boost orders, while for the rest of the day/night, producing orundumb.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586588921614303233/780558138699939910/image0.gif

3 PP base

This would've been cool if the order type got determined at the timer finish instead of the timer beginning

[winged hollow]

how many orundum do you have rn you choose to do AO

[stoic spoke]

96k LMD and 120 rocks for generating 1 pull

[winged hollow]

no like your current orundum

[stoic spoke]

I have 12k Orundumb

[winged hollow]

20 pulls yike

understandable

I need to AO for 14k orundum

[stoic spoke]

I took multiple breaks so it's the result of the lost resources

[winged hollow]

break is fine

[orchid bane]

Whenever I see a 2-gold proviso order. I call it "suffering from success"

[dark oasis]

How do I share my krooster profile

Do i just share the link

[rigid plume]

Yes. You can find it in Profile and Settings.

[dark oasis]

https://www.krooster.com/u/angel-honey-oni-60gg

What's the most efficient base setup i can do

I dont have my base set up properly ngl

[rigid plume]

You can refer to Base Combo guide in pins.

There's always best teams, just count %, and pick most highest of it.

If you cannot, in the bottom it shows solo big %.

Just set up whoever gives more.

[dark oasis]

[pale yoke]

[vernal palm]

is there a consensus benchmark for how productive one's base 'should' be at say, 1/2/3 months after creation? I know what the targets are but not how quickly I should be expecting to achieve them

[stoic spoke]

Base production rises slowly as you collect the specific team combo workers

Newbies are recommended to check out the good early game base workers in NOOB tab of link4 in pins

And /base and /baseskills in #bot-spam

[vernal palm]

yep, already been using that, just curious whether I'm ahead or behind the curve so far.

[vernal palm]

I think this is the cleanest rotation I'm going to get with my current roster. shift length 6 hours but the 3rd and 4th of each day are identical so I dont have to disrupt sleep

[crystal sandal]

Hi

[winged hollow]

Ask here and everyone know will tell you

[crystal sandal]

Oh ok thanks

Hi everyone can anyone guide me through the best setup to farm originium shards ? And the best way? Ill be thankful

[silent nova]

You're probably ahead of the curve lol

[summer kernel]

I don't think much has changed with Orundum farming (AO).

The AO materials, T2 rocks and devices, will always be your bottleneck. Running 1-7 for T2 rocks is the most efficient way to get AO materials at a cost of 4.82 sanity per T2 rock. (I think it's ~4.6 if you craft the T1 byproducts)

For the base, run 252 generally. Switch out your lowest productivity Factory to make shards and slot in E1 Chestnut and any two of the 35% AO operators (sorted by lowest investment: Eyja, Lava, Midnight, Earthspirit). Use your best non-Proviso/Tequila team for the TP to trade the shards in.

The only other AO Factory improvement would be to use the Abyssal Hunter (AH) team in place of the two 35%. (*And potentially Exodia for extreme AO farming.) For most bases, they're likely to be more productive in other factories.

For low end bases, Quartz becomes 36% in the TP.

Making shards in one factory and trading them in a TP is fairly balanced production-wise so I would drone them evenly if I need the AO ASAP but it's better to drone the LMD TPs because of Prov/Teq efficiency, the high demand for LMD in making the AO, and to balance out your likely 2 Gold Factory and 1 LMD TP setup.

Other advanced tips involve managing the shifts to maximize total productivity.
Consider swapping the AO factory to EXP or Gold when Chestnut is recovering for high-end bases.
Red likes to switch all his TPs to trading shards when busy/asleep to maximize his "cursed" orders for LMD.

(For extreme AO farming, basically skipping all events, consider 342 setups)

[arctic prism]

yea just from the fact that you gave a (from what I can tell) good attempt at trying to understand the concepts in the various docs + applied it to a rotation you made for yourself probably puts you way further ahead than 99.9% of players at your level lol

6 hr shift length is also higher effort than most people even within the riic community generally use so there's also that

[summer kernel]

Is he running 6-6-12? Is that better than 8-8-8?

[arctic prism]

should be about the same in theory?

but yeah sounds like hes doing 6-6-12

[wind otter]

[summer kernel]

That's everything I can think of for AO farming.

Is there anything else I can add for info or to clarify? Does anyone have any experience running 342 or other setups wrt AO farming?

[frank cipher]

run AO in 342(most efficient ) if don't want cut lmd, 252 work fine if not stacking shard

[vernal palm]

Yeah I’m doing 6-6-12 shifts, math is simpler that way than 8-8-8

[summer kernel]

So 2LMD, 3Gold, 1EXP? Do you still drone LMD and what's your income like?

[wild ice]

i think with orundum farming the most sustainable would be 2 LMD, 2 gold and 1 EXP, while 1 TP and 1 FAC produce orundum

you probably have to drone gold with it though

[frank cipher]

no exp i farm shard

[wild ice]

i also ran 342 with 3 gold 0 EXP, droning LMD for a few weeks but i didn’t save the report

[frank cipher]

must be 17 exp no run vivi/ft

[wild ice]

if you want to go extreme, you could totally switch some fac to EXP when your main gold team is resting to still have some EXP gains

[summer kernel]

Yeah sorry, I added a 5th factory . Why isn't 252, 1LMD - 3Gold - Drone LMD more efficient? just based on droning LMD + having to rotate 3 TP teams vs 3 Gold teams, it seems like 252 would be better, especially if you just convert the AO year round instead of in batches*

[wild ice]

if you’re only doing AO for a short while then it’s alright to run 252, but long term wise 342 helps with LMD bottleneck (this is assuming you have enough rocks to do AO for months)

[summer kernel]

Oh it's probably the Fia sham Teq?

[wild ice]

but yeah rotations would be weird

[wild ice]

yeah i did that

when i ran it i had more problems with managing my FAC workers though

had to use AHs and sometimes the 25%s

i always recommend people to convert orundum in batches if possible, it’s just more convenient to do it all in one go

[summer kernel]

Yeah I gotta try 342 to see for myself. I've been testing a 252, 2.5 gold 1.5 EXP, mainly droning LMD recently and I'm making around 200 AO, 30k EXP, 65k LMD with a -15 net loss in bars.
If AO farming long term, that's too much exp but I don't see why that's not sustainable if I ran 3gold 1 EXP.

When you say that 342 overcomes the LMD bottleneck, are we talking about max AO farming like dumping all 240+80 sanity into 1-7 and needing to convert that daily + a rock stockpile? I feel like an income of 250AO, 50k LMD, 17EXP, net neutral gold can be achieved long-term on a 252

[jaunty notch]

After proviso, i generally advise against going 342, mostly due to the increased drone req to make it

in 252, you can just use a flex fac to make shard and the lv3 tp to trade them

in 342, not only you have to downgrade an entire lv3 fac, you have to build a lv3 tp as well to trade, compared to break and build 1 lv2

at that point, you're better off just go for 252 with 2 lv3 tps

[summer kernel]

I agree with the startup costs but I think phlegyas is talking about long term max AO farming where you need to make at least 40k LMD daily to break even on AO LMD costs if you convert all your regen sanity. Closer to 55k considering monthly pots and other sources. I think you have to run 342 at the point but it seems like such an edge case since I think if you have to skip most event shops at that* level of demand.

[wild ice]

by long term i mean doing it for months by saving up rocks and converting them all, i think permanent AO is quite impossible without sacrificing efficiency

[silent nova]

i was labbing out somethign where it's like 9 days 1 factory generating shards then 7 days tp lmd 7 days orundum and it forms a 14 day cycle

and i think it resulted in being slightly rock positive

but this was like 3 years ago and i lowkey forgot how i got some numbers

i think this was highly specific to my prod numbers though

[wild ice]

on my 342 AO phase i was running 1 FAC + TP making orundum continuously till i want to go back to 252

[wild ice]

this is assuming you’re spending all sanity on doing 1-7 right

[silent nova]

what self respecting orundum producer doesn't

[wild ice]

me cuh

[silent nova]

in what world are you self respecting

[wild ice]

this world

[silent nova]

this guy rage baits constantly bro

[wild ice]

pack it up

[silent nova]

don't get me strated on qb and leizi alt arts bro

[wild ice]

don’t pull up that temu ahh aceship fork on me

[summer kernel]

Lol. I still don't get why AO farming has to be done as an all or nothing process/in batches. Why can't we continuously produce and sell shards? Just build up a stockpile of rocks and shards and be net neutral longterm

[silent nova]

no that's the recommended strat

im just stupid rich

[wild ice]

imo, both end up producing the same amount of orundum per rock but one requires less switching facility production and less minmaxing on rock income

[silent nova]

short bursts are more practical for chumps cuz they don't haev enough lmd prod to offset continuous orundum prod and allows them to farm event mats during events and rocks on downtime

[summer kernel]

I guess anyone active here doesn't have that constraint lol. Just build less... Or keep building so you have no one left to build and are forced to the 1-7 mines

[silent nova]

apparently during labbing this out i build a stockpile of 4k rocks

[frank cipher]

actually 50k lmd 30exp as you didn't need cut exp as gold surplus when farm ao in 252 which heavy toward exp

[summer kernel]

Wait so succinctly: if I'm AO farming for anything under 200 AO daily long term (75% of daily regen sanity), running 252 is better since the LMD pressure isn't as critical, right?

[jaunty notch]

to be fair, i haven't done orundumb ever since proviso release and a bit before that

i just think it sucks overall

[summer kernel]

30k EXP long-term would be really bad for LMD to EXP ratios I think. But yeah, 3Gold 1 LMD would be a major gold surplus. I guess I see why it's balanced to 342, drone gold if you stick to AO farming long term but I personally would just build a stockpile of gold on that 252 surplus then run 342, and never stop droning LMD. It's probably a max net loss of 10k LMD per day.

40k for AO costs, ~20k for LMD:EXP ratio for 17k EXP, 50k income, so 10k daily net loss

[frank cipher]

almost 1:2 lmd/exp + 2.5k shard
could be 50k lmd 25exp idk

[pale yoke]

[summer kernel]

Wait, that's a 70 AO daily avg. I'm pretty sure 252 would be better with the flex factories that Gato said.

1.5 LMD/exp ratio after AO costs assuming no device conversions and not counting Tequila contributions

[pure goblet]

it has been around 3 months since i started playing, is my base making good

[pale yoke]

No

[pure goblet]

ok

[stoic spoke]

So skip events and other things which require sanity?

why perma orundum when the rocc supply isn't sustainable enough

[vernal palm]

whats your roster look like?

[stoic spoke]

Also, I have another question.
Say we have 2 TP teams, Team1 with the highest TP % and Team2 with the second highest %. Then for a given time period, is it better to run the highest TP % team on AO or on LMD (+Proviso curse)

[silent nova]

yeah that calc assumes this

which is why it's not practical for most players

it might be an option for richie rich

[silent nova]

im inclined to say lmd

through power of intuition alone so maybe wrong

oh but maybe if you have sufficient lmd stockpile it might be better to run higher tp% on orundum

actually odn't believeme

write a spreadshseet

[stoic spoke]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/390756814532378634/1101448428866773022/ezgif-3-a96bd92462.gif

[stoic spoke]

Maybe we can set an LMD production threshold for the 2nd highest team as a criteria for whether to assign the highest team for orundumb?

That threshold being it produces enough LMD for sustaining making shards continuously

[silent nova]

that would be to figure out if your cycle is sustainable which is not super hard to do i htink what requqires more thinking is whats better

i can share my sheet containing these calcs and see if you acn reverse engineer it because i probably can't

hold on this fucks up my opsec

[stoic spoke]

[silent nova]

ohhhhhhhhhh google

[stoic spoke]

But our shouldn't our goal be to trade shards the fastest? There's already too much LMD (+ proviso curse magically increasing it by 25k/day)

So if the 2nd highest team can produce enough LMD to sustain making shards, I think I'm going to assign the fastest team to AO

[silent nova]

this is sorta what i'm thinking:
on some <X> day cycle you can farm O=240X / 6 * 1.2 whatever the drop rate is on 1-7 rocks, which gives O/2 shards to produce (and O/4 trades? i forgot all the numbers lol)

you then have two scenarios:

• running highest tp% on AO trading trades all O/4 orders in Y amount of time, then the remaining X-Y days can be spent producing lmd. in exchange your lmd prod during this Y amount of time is much less
• running second highest tp% on AO has a symmetric situation but Y' > Y so X-Y' < X-Y

i think it is highest tp on ao actually

assuming sufficient lmd stockpile for first cycle that you can trade everything during the Y days (and future cycls wil likely not have this constraint, hopefully, if the X cycle is lmd positive)

hold on/tenor writing fire

https://tenor.com/bO6mt.gif

[stoic spoke]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586588921614303233/1449088283140296706/collabe-3_ceobe_math.png?ex=69423d61&is=6940ebe1&hm=71b0b5d1b469ec22829ff5e609611cb2a9c8068cfaed1daf7d11b898bb377ffd&

[silent nova]

this should be spreadsheeted up instead of kept in the brain im gonna flish this out right now

te one thing i haven't really answered is whether
running (1) yields second highest tp% * 10k * Y lmd and (2) yields highest tp% * 10k * Y' lmd and you'll have (1) < (2) probably proba

ughhhhhhhhhh

ughhhhhhhhhhh

ighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

who wants to inherit this

@ scholar you seem interested

[stoic spoke]

[stoic spoke]

Should save the hardwork and follow this intuition

Or maybe we just do it practically by running in the base

The LMD sustainability factor is a breakpoint which people have to meet in order to proceed with assigning the highest team to AO, or they'll just be lacking LMD which makes it worse.

[wild ice]

gold looks very lacking

[queen flicker]

good news: i just got waai fu from a recruit (and og exu too! )

bad news: where do i place her

[orchid bane]

With Aroma ofc ?

Aroma is kinda not so good without waaifu

[queen flicker]

but its a lvl 3 fac with staggers. no staggers there then? also, waai fu skill doesnt work with purestream right? would have to move purestream to... fac 1 i guess?

i mean its not so clear where to optimally place her

[torn meteor]

you just need to stagger her to be with aroma vanilla then aroma purestream once vanilla dies

aroma will be charged then so itll be fine

then you do purestream vanilla steward 3rd rot

[queen flicker]

i think i got the solution. move purestream to fac 1 replacing spot. and in fac 2 do these rotation:
aroma - waai fu - spot
aroma - waai fu - vanilla
aroma - vanilla - spot
totter - waai fu - spot

[torn meteor]

i think that works

[queen flicker]

what do you think 🤔

[torn meteor]

yeah that seems good

but once bryo enters the picture you should tweak things again

[queen flicker]

btw cant do a regular 4 operator stagger because aroma dies on the no waai fu shift (i think)

[torn meteor]

if you are doing 5op stagger cant you do like
aroma waaifu vanilla
aroma waaifu purestream
totter vanilla purestream

i think thatd be better if you are willing to do it

[stoic spoke]

keep aroma waifu together

[fluid pollen]

Just morale things

[stoic spoke]

aroma - waai fu - spot
aroma - waai fu - vanilla
aroma - waai fu - spot
totter - vanilla - spot

[torn meteor]

people use aroma waaifu in level 2 factories as 85 you can just purestream with them after aroma timer builds a bit

[queen flicker]

thats it, looks perfect ty

[stoic spoke]

I just placed them together

[queen flicker]

almost got the rotation by myself but yeah aroma and waaifu should be together i missed one shift

[stoic spoke]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586588921614303233/1447896044426887311/weed_y.gif

[queen flicker]

when bryo rerun comes then what

[stoic spoke]

run him with metalworker skill workers

Bryo - Gravel - Spot - Haze

stagger rotate in lv3 FAC

[queen flicker]

i mean with these waaifu tweaks i move purestream to fac 1 and spot to fac 2. so bryo replace purestream and then... she back to fac 2 with waai fu?

[stoic spoke]

does waaifu function with purestream?

i don't rember

[queen flicker]

according to base guide, no

[stoic spoke]

she can after 10hrs (when aroma ramp has reached 40%)

aroma - waai fu - X
aroma - waai fu - Purestream
aroma - waai fu - Purestream
X - X - Purestream

X = any 25% +

take care to place aroma in the 1st spot in order to not fuck up her ramp during rotation

[torn meteor]

yesnt, if you only put purestream in after aroma becomes a 40 then yes

oop didnt see you factchecking lmao

[velvet seal]

Best ops for warehouse room?

I need those lmd

[velvet seal]

If I remember minimalist has metal worker skill too?

But isn't efficient due to the fact he drain stamina more than other ops

[pale yoke]

No

[orchid bane]

Minimalist 40% for 3PP or bad

[velvet seal]

Oh yeah sorry, it's overall factory efficiency

[summer kernel]

nah, i'm busy working on FAC% vs TP% stuff but my hunch is the same as your initial intuition: put the higher TP% with proviso, assuming youre not breaking up teams.

Just following along your work, i dont see the benefit in trading off the AO as fast as possible but having a higher base TP% for Proviso to multiply is more productivity.

[velvet seal]

Gents

Seriously asking

Which operator is good when paired with proviso?

[rigid plume]

Highest Order%.

Either solo when Lv2 TP or duo summarized when Lv3 TP.

[velvet seal]

Lv 3 trade post

I also have tequila

[rigid plume]

I use Lemuen + Normal Exusiai.

[velvet seal]

Omw

E1 or E2 lemuen?

[rigid plume]

Doesn't work with Proviso, reread both their Base Skills.

[rigid plume]

E2

[velvet seal]

I will use him for separate TP

[rigid plume]

Ok. No need to make them work together.

Just highest +% you got is enough.

[velvet seal]

Thanks

I didn't need the factory layout, since I've got fedalter and tragodia for exp and for metal ops I have many

[winged hollow]

is it good to run windflit if I want exp automation?

[velvet seal]

Exp factory?

You have tragodia and exealt?

Use both of them

If not there is better ops in skill

[winged hollow]

I asked for automation combo

[velvet seal]

Ah

[orchid bane]

You can also consider lv2 or even lv1 fac

Iirc, 14j here do dead lancet with lv1 fac

Only weedy there

[winged hollow]

no I run lvl3 automation

with weedy core

[orchid bane]

If you are 2 PP. Just remember the more slot your automation team have, the less they worth

[winged hollow]

i am 3 pp

and run dead lancet

[orchid bane]

Oh

Sometime I feel like that is quite rare here

For 3 PP and you want XP then windflit pass weedy and dead lancet is your best choice

XP still enough for me

[stoic spoke]

But trading off AO quicker allows us to get back to trading GOLD so we can curse even more orders

[summer kernel]

if youre cursing, then it doesnt matter which TP you make LMD/AO to maximize production. It's probably even best to run both on LMD or AO at the same time so you minimize the amt of actual hours you need to curse.

[thin minnow]

lmfao

They are so afraid of powercreeping the base for whatever reason

unique skill

10%

[pale yoke]

surely they going to make a partner for her in the future, surely

[thin minnow]

:clueless:

Surely

Getting an extra 10 drones a day would be too broken

[valid storm]

They forgot that the base exists

[stoic spoke]

need proviso alter that doubles the gold when swapped in before collecting FAC

[valid storm]

I need Pepe partners

Free LMD

[pale yoke]

give me a xp equivalent and watch me curse 5 fac

[winged hollow]

all m3 trainers are limited wtf wrong with this game 💀

[vernal palm]

I dont see it in the guide, but from what I gather this 'cursing' technique entails putting Proviso into a trading post only at the last moment before an order arrives so you benefit from her skills while still being able to use the slot for someone with an order speed buff, is that correct?

[arctic prism]

yep

if it's a lv3 tp, it's good to do it with tequila to boost the natural 4 gold orders too

[wind otter]

Eblana

[orchid bane]

Why don't they just make SA2 m3 trainer as well

-# More useful

[fluid pollen]

Isn’t he?

Just weaker

80% instead of the usual 95%

[silent nova]

There is a reason

They're scared of us

[wind otter]

scared of losing your money

[torn meteor]

necrass

[pale yoke]

f2p smh can't lose what's given for free

[wind otter]

I know you're totally, absolutely, and indisputably f2p, I meant the other people, you know

[limpid spear]

im in dire need of someone to talk me thru base building like im a toddler

Rn im 2 4 3 with a maxed right side

and im always outta lmd

[arctic prism]

generally:

downgrade all dorms to lv 1, can leave one at lv 2
if own proviso:
downgrade one tp + 2 fac to lv 2
no proviso:
downgrade 3 fac to lv 2

delete one powerplant, build one lv 2 fac

for rotations, refer to link 4 in pins, there are some sample rotations in the info tab that you can look at and adjust to you needs depending on what ops you own and dont own

[wind otter]

are you suggesting 243 to 252 conversion?

[arctic prism]

yea?

[wind otter]

I just think you should mention that, remember you're talking to a toddler

[arctic prism]

oh right

[wind otter]

I just heard a very funny joke: ||arknights global pc client||

[arctic prism]

Generally you'd want to convert your base from 243 to 252 max right.
Factories innately give +100% production speed just by existing, which doesn't change based off the factory level. This means that just by the 5th factory existing, you're gaining an extra +100% factory production, for the cost of being able to use one less factory or tp worker (if maxed right) than 243.

Since you will be using all your best ops first in both base layouts, in order for 243 to be better than 252 max right, your 12th best factory worker needs to reach +100% factory production on their own, when most meta base ops average around +30~40%.

"But what about my dorm levels?" you might ask.
Even at lv 1, the dorms are able to fully restore an op from 0 to full in 12 hours, with no extra boosts. Maxed level dorms will restore an op from 0 to full in 6 hours. This allows you to have a slightly higher uptime on your best combos but, this advantage still doesn't even come close to making up the +100% factory prod that 252 gets, and only comes into play if you both rotate your base every 6 hours (or even more frequently than that).

Even from a 252 base, if you really want to micromanage and rotate more frequently, you are still able to rotate every 6 hours by making proper use of dorm operators, and rotating even more frequently than this has significant diminishing returns.

In order to convert your base from 243 to 252 max right, you need to:
downgrade all dorms to lv 1, can leave one at lv 2
if you own proviso:
downgrade one tp + 2 fac to lv 2
no proviso:
downgrade 3 fac to lv 2

delete one powerplant, build one lv 2 fac

@wind otter there you go

lol it lowkey feels like i made a copy pasta but it's more or less accurate info, albeit ignoring some minor details like -1% prod on each lv2 facility over lv3 ones and morale drain and whatnot

[wind otter]

It's almost perfect, it just needs more goo goo gaga

[arctic prism]

Genewawwy you'd want to convewt youw base fwom 2-243 to 252 max wight.
Factowies innyatewy give +100% pwoduction speed just by existing, which doesn't change based off the boops your nose factowy wevew. This means that just by the boops your nose 5th factowy existing, you'we g-g-gaining an extwa +100% factowy pwoduction, fow the boops your nose cost of b-being abwe to use onye wess screeches factowy ow whispers to self tp wowkew (if maxed wight) :3 than 243.

Since you wiww be using all youw b-b-best ops fiwst in both base wayouts, in owdew fow 2-243 to be bettew than 252 max wight, youw 12th b-b-best factowy wowkew nyeeds to weach +100% factowy pwoduction on theiw own, w-w-when most meta base ops avewage awound +30~40%.

~~"But what about my dowm wevews?" you m-might a-ask. ~~
Even at lv 1, the boops your nose dowms awe abwe to fuwwy westowe an op fwom 0 to fuww in 12 h-houws, with nyo extwa boosts. Maxed wevew dowms wiww westowe an op fwom 0 to fuww in 6 houws. This a-a-awwows you to have a swightwy higher uptime on youw b-b-best combos but, this advantage stiww doesn't even OwO come cwose to making up the boops your nose +100% factowy pwod that 252 gets, and onwy comes into p-p-pway if you both w-wotate youw base evewy 6 houws (ow even OwO mowe fwequentwy than that).

Even fwom a 252 base, if you weawwy x3 want to micwomanage and w-wotate mowe fwequentwy, you awe stiww abwe to w-wotate evewy 6 houws by making proper use of dowm opewatows, and w-wotating even OwO mowe fwequentwy than this has signyificant diminishing wetuwns.

[arctic prism]

ok i go commit die now

[jaunty notch]

https://tenor.com/view/ssst-isilop-polisi-diam-gif-21984623

[arctic prism]

I blame vault

[uncut dome]

[arctic prism]

Oh I forgot to mention-1 pp

Good point

[wind otter]

"the devil made me do it" has never held up in court, just saying

[limpid spear]

appreciate you writing this out in full

Its quite intimidating to tackle from a fully built base. It should take me a bit to pivot right because of drones?

and in terms of ops. I tried looking at the spreadsheet of reccomended ops and adapted them kinda with my own ops. I usually find myself running out of gold tho

im assuming that fifth factory will fix this?

and with the extra gold id just drone lmd?

[wind otter]

yeah, in 243 you usually need to drone gold to keep up. You switch to 252 and can have 3 gold fac vs 2 EXP and that should net you gold surplus, unless you drone Proviso which can strain your gold stash but then there is testimony of gaining gold surplus even when droning Proviso

[limpid spear]

In terms of ops to put in these factories

I was struggling to find ops to put in them with 3 factories, let alone 4

Who do i need to promote asap for more money printing

[wind otter]

Noob tab is your friend, my guess is you're new to the game, right?

noob tab in the spreadsheet

[limpid spear]

may as well br

came back after stopping playing early into year 2

never really did any base stuff outside of build it

[silent nova]

the noob tab has like 12? <= 4* base ops for factory

witha max right 252 that should be enough to fill everyone i think

idk im playing mc

[pale yoke]

this is the most convincing 252 propaganda i've read this year, almost fell for it

[fluid pollen]

Oh my god

[arctic prism]

I probably should have mentioned but if the only thing you want is lmd completely disregarding exp, 243 is technically better at producing it, you just make more gold facs instead of exp facs

[limpid spear]

Right now i dont really need exp, but id imagine the stores will dwindle over time

[arctic prism]

In terms of drone cost it's actually pretty low because the only thing you're building is a lv 2 factory, the rest is just tearing stuff down which doesn't cost drones

Yep thats why most people just recommend 252,
Is usually equal if not just marginally worse lmd output for significantly better exp output

[limpid spear]

I keep finding myself with no money because im building modules and ops really frequently

[arctic prism]

thats tru tho

[limpid spear]

Whats the expected lmd daily on 243

right now im avg 34-40k but i feel thats on the low end

[arctic prism]

Yea thats def on the low end

Depends on your ops though

I'd imagine most people should be able to hit 50k daily minimum, unless it's like a fresh acc

[silent nova]

40k on 2 tp is a bit under 100% on bvoth tps

[limpid spear]

ok gona look thru the doc then

[silent nova]

this is without droning

what's 100% pp in drones again

120?

[wind otter]

check the special tab as well, you're not new so chances are you have some of the special sauce already

[limpid spear]

id imagine the chances arent that high

but ill check

[silent nova]

240

[arctic prism]

Uhh I never ran that conversion so idk
I assume you mean how many drones 100% pp makes in a day? Or smth

[silent nova]

you can probably expect like 20% pp so you have 240 * 1.2 = 288 drones/day, which gives you 864 working minutes

[arctic prism]

Yea 120 seemed low for that if my assumption was correct

[silent nova]

then droning just the raw dog tp3 yields uhh

+6159.2920 lmd/day expected

though if you have either of prov or teq this goes higher

but thats outsaide noob stuff probably

are noobs able to get teq now or is his event still stuck in jail

[limpid spear]

for mizuki how important is e2

[arctic prism]

Think he's available

[limpid spear]

tequila is easily obtainable

[wind otter]

specially if you live in Mexico

[silent nova]

proviso ru8ined my sheet

[limpid spear]

im so confused as to what im looking at lmao

looking in the factory tab on the spreadsheet

[arctic prism]

Basically how you read this is
E0: he gets a skill that adds +5% for each standard op with him
At E2: he himself becomes a standard 25%

[limpid spear]

so he gets an extra 25% on top of what the others are giving him?

[arctic prism]

So at E0 he's +10% at most
E2 he's 30% + up to 10% more

[limpid spear]

so id have to e2 bryophyta too for example?

so i could run thornster and gravel with him

[arctic prism]

For him he's 30% at e0, then gains that other skill at e2

So he's serviceable at e0 but only gains the combo at e2

[limpid spear]

thats kinda expensive combo then with him and thornster

dam

[arctic prism]

Yea
But bryo can also be used with stuff like spot too so

Him himself isnt too bad

[limpid spear]

also looks like i have to e2 miss christine?

run her with trag and vermeil

[arctic prism]

For the most part lots of combo ops need e2
Thats part of what makes the noob tab useful since those guys are all low investment

4* and below get their upgraded base skills at e1 so

Much cheaper than 5 and 6*

If you're at the stage where you still need to pick and choose who to invest in, sticking with noob tab is a good idea
Can just add other combos if you already invested in them but otherwise unnecessary

[limpid spear]

well ill go ahead and promo vermil

[wind otter]

only Proviso is a must promote for base

[arctic prism]

Ye she only req e1 anyway and has other partners that are cheaper investment wise

[limpid spear]

well shes a must get first

[arctic prism]

Lol yea

[wind otter]

just wait a month

[limpid spear]

im sure ill off rate her at some point

[arctic prism]

We usually get a 5* selector every year on anniversary

So can pick her up in january

[limpid spear]

oh thats good to know

so if i vermil, with beanstalk and cuora in a gold fac i should be making more money?

[arctic prism]

Not necessarily more money but you'd have more gold maybe that you can use for droning tps which makes you more money?

[limpid spear]

beanstalk is a good build anyway so ill level her too

heard shes ment to be good in is6

[wind otter]

gold = LMD fuel

[limpid spear]

do i just want to look thru the doc, then pick out as many full combos as i have and put em in, then make the rest of the rotations up with whatever others i have?

[arctic prism]

Yep pretty much

[limpid spear]

ill see what i cant set up and then check the income after a few days

comparing no drone to no drone and see if its gone up

[limpid spear]

do i just go lemuen exusiai exualter?

have all 3, lemon will be e2 soon enough

that shamare team looks turbo strong too

[arctic prism]

doing both exu and exu alter doesn't make lemuen get her +25% twice so can consider exu alter as just another 30% worker with extra steps

shamare team is really good yeah

[limpid spear]

anyone else good to put in there then

[arctic prism]

just your highest % is fine

[limpid spear]

with that team exalter would be 45%, lemuen would get the bonus, and exu is just 35%?

can exalter get a 15% from herself, and her original?

[arctic prism]

exu alt doesnt count for herself

[limpid spear]

thats disapointing

[arctic prism]

yeah

[limpid spear]

especailly for an e2 req on that skill

[arctic prism]

yep

[limpid spear]

wait she doesnt count her orignial either

[arctic prism]

oh lmao even worse then

[limpid spear]

💀

[karmic lance]

anyone able to help me make presets based off my characters

for my base

[limpid spear]

i dont need e2 for that shamare team either right

outside of shamare herself

[arctic prism]

no, but it does improve it pretty drastically

[limpid spear]

is it stil lgoing to be better than slamming 3 30% in the tp and calling it a dayt?

[arctic prism]

yea should be

[jaunty notch]

just exu and lemu is 80

anyone more than 10 would make it better

[arctic prism]

^this is also true

[limpid spear]

cuz rn i got in exu lemon and a 35%, and jaye tex lapp in two posts.

just gotta find 2 more teams

[arctic prism]

it's hard for us to do this because we don't know anything about your account or what you're willing to do, ends up requiring a lot of time and effort from both sides
it's significantly easier for us to just point you to resources that have almost all of the info you need then answer questions about those resources rather than do everything for you

a generally good place to start is link 4 in pins
id take a look at the sample shifts from the info tab, as well as the noob tab if you're newer to the game

[summer kernel]

Hey Cho, I was looking into the TP% vs FAC% stuff again and I was wondering why we don't have a real ratio between them in terms of maximizing base productivity as opposed to assuming 1:1 net gain. I know you have worked on this in the past so I was hoping you could share some of your insights.

[fluid pollen]

Cho helpdesk

[arctic prism]

it's mainly because each player individually values different things and their end goals are different, which is what determines what your personal ideal lmd to xp ratio should be

[fluid pollen]

[arctic prism]

literally lmao

[summer kernel]

Yes but we should still be able to get a range of values. Like how we know there's an useful range of LMD to XP ratios depending on your goals and build

[arctic prism]

yea that's true
I was planning to do something like that at some point then forgot about it lol

I think though even if someone were to calculate it the results would be a pretty broad range so it wouldnt be all that helpful to give as actual advice

if i had to guess that's probably why no one really bothered to calc it?

[summer kernel]

I did follow that line of analysis and I essentially got the reverse ratio of Teq+Proviso's multiplier numbers. As in 1.8 TP% is worth 1 FAC% for lvl2 TP Prov users and 1.6:1 for lvl3 Teq/Prov users. Can you take a look at my work in a bit? It sorta is the reverse of your Dead Lancet conclusion: essentially Eu-Dead Lancet is a lot stronger than Amiya base bc TP% is inherently not 1:1 with FAC% in our current desired LMD:XP ratios and with the advent of Prov

[arctic prism]

sure

idk if you did this already but id also make sure to calc gold% separate from xp%

and also need to consider gold gained from external sources, which is part of why you dont need to make as much gold as you make lmd

[summer kernel]

Wait why? They have to be 1:1 or none of our material sanity values make sense lol

Bc the MSV of a drone is constant

[arctic prism]

the way i see it is gold is worthless until converted to lmd via tp

vs xp which already has a value

[summer kernel]

Wait, that's a terrible assumption. If you follow that line, if gold has no value, what are our gold facs producing? They inherently have to have a nonzero positive value😜

[arctic prism]

no it just means that in order to produce lmd, it requires the combined production of gold factories and tps

and in that equation you also need to factor in external gold

[wind otter]

laughing in Pepe ||and broke||

[fleet wolf]

[arctic prism]

it's technically the more accurate way to evaluate base production, since otherwise you'd end up devaluating tp% since gold% already gives you something "of value"

where as in reality you cant do anything with excess gold

thats why i was saying figuring out the actual ratio is more effort than it's worth
formula has too many variables that get impacted by not only your end goals but also what kind of player you are

[astral tiger]

is it a good idea to downgrade proviso tp to lvl 1 or just spend drones on gold fac (I'm at net negative by drinking lvl 2 tp)

droning* not drinking

[arctic prism]

e.g. do you buy out green cert shop
friend point shop
dailies/weeklies, events, etc

do you farm 1-7, which also gives you gold

[astral tiger]

1-7 gives pure gold??

I don't farm that

[summer kernel]

The goal of an efficient base is to maximize the LMD and XP output at desired ratio depending on your goals. To do so, means that you should aim to maintain netzero gold after external income. The TP% becomes devalued because of mainly Proviso because it eats so much gold, that you have to value that percentage less to not accumulate gold.

[arctic prism]

just spend drones on gold fac
proviso tp to lv1 would be like neutering your lmd prod to keep up with gold prod

[astral tiger]

hmm true

[summer kernel]

I think we are in agreement that net gold accumulation is a drag on efficiency, which is not the case for final products like LMD and XP. But that doesn't mean gold production is less valuable. in fact, the raw % is more valuable bc it's essentially comparative advantage, right?

[arctic prism]

oh yeah im not saying it has zero value, I'm just saying I consider it just a part of the lmd equation rather than innately assigning some material value to it

in saying this I mean that from a formula perspective we should evaluate surplus gold% beyond what your tp% can convert as having minimal value

[summer kernel]

Are you saying you don't agree that a gold bar has a pretty meaningful MSV? I think it's worth more than half of the resulting LMD MSV on Peter's sheet

[arctic prism]

whereas for xp% you can just straight up assign a value to it

that's not what I'm saying
I'm saying it's hard to assign it a fixed value because it depends on your base circumstances

assuming your base always has the same output and you're overproducing gold, that excess gold isnt valuable

until you change your base to use up that excess gold

[pale yoke]

i measure gold value in drone count, it's easier to get a picture of how much you produce instead of just measuring against CELS stages

all this is to say best just drone xp

[arctic prism]

lmao this is lowkey tru tho

but yea if we're attempting to calculate an optimal target tp% and xp% with a base rotation in order to match some lmd/xp ratio these are the types of considerations that need to be made, is all I'm saying

[astral tiger]

btw guys, if u do orundum farming, do you switch whole base setup to orundum farm or leave a tp and fac for normal prod too

basically hybrid setup or all in

[summer kernel]

The way I see it, there's three cases if we ignore XP and that ratio for a second and talk about long term rates.

1. if we have too much accumulation of gold, any Gold% is worth trading for TP% so the TP% to FAC% ratio is inf.
2. for too little gold, it's the opposite. Ratio is 0.
3. the range that we care about, where you can balance your gold accumulation to net 0 via drones, and external income, and base setups (252, 342, etc). We can determine a numerical ratio.
   I think if you follow the line of thinking, to balance your gold made in FAC vs gold spent in TP, the TP:FAC boils down to the ratio of the times it takes to make an order on a per bar basis vs to make a bar in FAC

[summer kernel]

#r-i-i-c message

[torn meteor]

imagine you already have 2000 gold bars, your gold factories are basically not contributing anything until your stockpile is back down, and in a high gold production low tp usage scenario that means your gold factories might as well be exp until your stockpile is down because at least you are getting something of value instead of slowly bringing your stockpile up to 3000 gold bars

[astral tiger]

Thanks!

[summer kernel]

Agreed. Pls see my 3 cases above.

[torn meteor]

oop i missed those

[arctic prism]

yeah the only range we care about is when the average tp% of your rotation exactly matches some corresponding ratio of gold%
like im thinking of this in a vaccuum where in an ideal world the amount of gold you have has zero fluctuation when averaged out over an extended period
the point I was making is that gold% beyond this perfect gold% is completely worthless, thus making excess gold worthless, not that gold has no innate value

[summer kernel]

If you follow Peter's line of thinking, which is if you agree with his MSV/farming sheet, then droning any of the 3 has the same value if you do it to balance your LMD:XP ratio and make net zero gold.

That's kinda wild to me bc I always assumed that droning LMD was the best choice

[summer kernel]

Agreed but isn't that a prerequisite to all bases that we consider? Anytime we talk about stockpiling is bc we're either doing it as part of a base strategy (make surplus now to run a deficit later, in a microscale for shifts and a macroscale for base layout - 153 vs 252 vs 342 stuff)

Or we're working on CN clairvoyant / hedging on copium like Proviso for gold or Pepe partners

[fluid pollen]

🔥 xp droning

[arctic prism]

yep, that's why I consider peter's line of thinking with drones as correct. because we cant literally reach that equilibrium without making drastic changes to rotations, if you're mainly sticking with one and only tweaking it a little at a time (with new op releases, etc) those drones are most valuable when being used toward reaching xp/gold/lmd equilibrium

in that sense, the msv of gold and xp are variable

and they need to be considered separate variables as a result

it's all very

circumstantial

doesnt translate well into an easy to use fixed number

[summer kernel]

If you follow Peter's line, then the MSV of XP and Gold is actually dependent only on the best TP you can drone. None of that is actually as nebulous as I thought

Let me see if I can post the math

[arctic prism]

[summer kernel]

Besides math errors, this line should be pretty uncontroversial, if you follow Peter's line

[summer kernel]

Also if you follow that line, why do you consider XP% vs Gold% to be different?

[pale yoke]

oh no don't get me wrong, im not denying anyone opinion here i just have my own way of looking at the whole thing.
my logic which i've mentioned in the past is basically- proviso created a environment where we are allowed to pull lmd out of thin air if you're crazy enough to do it. so i view xp value more from that perspective. again, just to clarify i agree droning proviso on raw number alone is = bigger number
but i want more xp and im

[arctic prism]

this is working under the assumption that you already have reached tp/gold equilibrium and are using drones purely as a separate resource that gets converted into lmd/gold or xp no?

[pale yoke]

iirc doing curse a day is equivalent to the amount of drone you earned daily or close
so me doing curse is already equate to me full droning tp

[summer kernel]

see back to my 3 cases. The range that moving your base around and droning makes net zero total gold is the only one thats relevant or the ratio is 0 or inf

[arctic prism]

it's precisely because I'm following that line that I consider xp% and gold% to be different
gold% is a contributor toward lmd%, thereby increasing the lmd side of the lmd/xp ratio
xp% is counting toward the xp side of the lmd/xp ratio
if we're working under the assumption that you can convert 100% of the gold you produce, would you not evaluate gold% and xp% as separate entities, considering we have separate ops for each?'

[pale yoke]

picking at each other brain i see

[arctic prism]

hmm I guess if you think of it from more of a you have a target xp% you need to hit and a target gold% you need to hit, the value of those each individual 1% that makes up that whole target% is equal? is what you're saying

[velvet seal]

I like rotating my ops in the rest room

What happen to a men after learning hundreds of hours in hoi4 resources management

Also, thanks to whoever give me advice on proviso and tequila

Now I already got 150% more lmd than previous day

[uncut dome]

[arctic prism]

following up on this, I was coming at it from the perspective of like a because the amount of xp% you need vs the amount of gold% you need is different, the value of additional% from each side has a different effect on the whole kind of thing?
in the sense that if you're converting 70k lmd/day, making 30k xp/day and 50k gold/day, any additional gold% you get is going to have differing effect on your ratio than an equal amount of additional xp% you get

[summer kernel]

Simply, if you think drones have a set MSV for your TP setup and all products droned are equally efficient, then the two FAC% have to be equal right

Below is a tangent that may clarify my thought process before I considered the core argument.

---

I see two independent ratios:

1. LMD:EXP which is defined by your goals (build everyone, build few to the max, AO farming, etc)

2. LMD:Gold, which im starting believe is fixed based on Teq/Prov since your objective is to max LMD and reach net-zero gold.

Once you define your LMD:EXP ratio, you should be able to determine your theoretical max LMD, EXP, Gold. Obviously its hard bc we get event rewards, variance, imperfect world, etc but ideally this is true based on your ops

[summer kernel]

I think that was my intitial thoughts but this is the logic I'm settling into right now:

[arctic prism]

2. LMD:Gold, which im starting believe is fixed based on Teq/Prov since your objective is to max LMD and reach net-zero gold.
   I agree with the statement that this ratio is fixed depending on teq/prov, which is why I was saying what I'm saying

if lmd:gold ratio is fixed, and lmd:xp ratio is variable, gold% cant equal xp% right?

I might be coming at this with some other assumption that I havent formulated into a coherent thought yet too though

[silent nova]

what is this

[arctic prism]

I think the main point of disagreement may be here

all products droned are equally efficient
because that's not how I see it
i'm considering the value of a drone in an xp fac if you're overproducing lmd as higher than the value of the same drone in a gold fac or tp

[summer kernel]

You would make less Gold and LMD at that fixed 1.6/1.8 ratio and make more XP either by droning, shifts or changing facility setups if you decrease your LMD:EXP ratio. but the LMD:Gold ratio is still holds true bc you had to have reached the net zero gold before to get "max LMD" production

[summer kernel]

do you think the value of a drone is fixed, for your given setup*?

[arctic prism]

if you do manage to hit lmd:xp equilibrium (post droning), the most effective way to use drones will be drones used toward reaching that equilibrium

in that sense, the value of drones are not fixed

the way I see it is like
you have three meters
tp meter, gold meter, xp meter
drones can be used as filler to increase any of those meters
most efficient base usage will attempt to hit a specific ratio between each of those three individual meters, so after your facs and tps create whatever they do create, drones are there to help you get closer to the ideal ratio

[stoic spoke]

Maxed level dorms will restore an op from 0 to full in 6 hours. This allows you to have a slightly higher uptime on your best combos

hold my lvl1 dorm restoring gladiia(or bluepoison here) in 7hr 45minutes

[summer kernel]

can you clarify that? If you have surplus drones after you hit equilibrium via base actions, you just drone accordingly to make more following the LMD:XP ratio? So X drones for EXP, X for Gold, 1 for LMD, if you follow my idea that its 1:1 Gold:XP and X:1 TP to Gold

[arctic prism]

e.g. if ideal ratio is 100% 100% 100% for the three meters
if you have 100% tp and gold after your workers but your xp meter is at 50%, drones are going to be most valuable when contributing to the xp meter
if we're saying that drones have equal value regardless of what they create, we're saying that it doesn't matter how you use those drones, since they have a fixed value anyways

[summer kernel]

i agree with this abstraction. I think this just falls into that X:X:1 that im talking about

[arctic prism]

you just drone accordingly to make more following the LMD:XP ratio
yes
I think easiest way to show this is if you start with a desired lmd:xp ratio
lets say you want 1.4:1
this means that the value of 1400 lmd = 1000 xp, correct?
in order to create 1400 lmd from scratch with drones, the number of drones you need to use on gold vs the number of drones you need to use on xp is going to be different, along with the number needed to be used on the tp

hence, the value of 1 drone's contribution toward skewing the ratio varies depending on what it's used on

[summer kernel]

if we're saying that drones have equal value regardless of what they create, we're saying that it doesn't matter how you use those drones, since they have a fixed value anyways
I think this is true but let me follow along your example.

[arctic prism]

another way to put it is the effect a single drone has on the lmd:gold:xp ratio is different depending on what facility you use the drone on

and what determines all of that is the target lmd:xp ratio

[stoic spoke]

slow gold accumulation should be considered investment for proviso cursers

[summer kernel]

the number of drones you need to use on gold vs the number of drones you need to use on xp is going to be different, along with the number needed to be used on the tp

the value of 1 drone's contribution toward skewing the ratio varies depending on what it's used on

Why are these two conflicting? If the MSV of the items are in the same ratio as the drone cost ratio, then the value of 1 drone is the same everywhere.

I think that is literally Peter's line of analysis:

MSV of LMD from CE-6.

MSV of Gold Bars from drones needed to make 500LMD in base.

MSV of XP from the 60:24 drone ratio of XP to Bar

[arctic prism]

no just consider it literally
since 1400 lmd is a little annoying to picture, we can do 14000 lmd
using a lv2 proviso tp, we can literally calculate the number of drones we will need to use in order to convert 14000 lmd right?
and we can compute (using the fixed lmd:gold ratio we mentioned before) how much gold we need to generate in order to convert that amount of lmd
and you can compute the number of drones we will need to generate 10000 xp in a factory

[summer kernel]

yes to all

[arctic prism]

if the value of a drone is fixed and 1 gold drone = 1 xp drone, and the number of drones you need to generate that amount of gold vs the number you need to generate that amount of xp needs to equal the target lmd to xp ratio, or in this example, 1.4:1

[stoic spoke]

umm what is the goal after calculating optimal lmd:exp ratios and everything?

[summer kernel]

in practice, the TP%:FAC% answers how much TP% you should give up to get better FAC%, for an efficient base*

[arctic prism]

it's way back at the beginning of this convo but the goal was to calc the value of 1 tp% vs the value of 1 fac% when attempting to reach a desired lmd:xp ratio, but I started saying xp and gold%s should be evaluated separately which caused this entire discussion

[summer kernel]

can you finish this line of reasoning?

[stoic spoke]

So assuming we arrive at a golden LMD:EXP ratio after these derivations:

1. is it going to be useful in the sense that people will try to make their base rotation combos with that ratio in mind?
2. Because that would mean their focus shifts towards minimising their distance from the ratio, instead of using their roster's best teams which may be higher in productivity value but way off the golden ratio.
3. If that's the case, does the ratio holds value only for people with full collection who can run the most optimal teams?

[summer kernel]

LMD:EXP ratio depends on things outside of the base: how much you are building and how you are building (6 stars vs 4stars, max level vs lvl60, mod3, etc)

Do you mean LMD:Gold ratio?

[stoic spoke]

no, the TP%:FAC%

it's subjective for everyone

so what is the motive for calculating it's optimal value

[summer kernel]

#r-i-i-c message

[stoic spoke]

isn't efficient base the one where we put our best teams at work to maximise absolute production, not relative to the ratio.

for example, 4 gold for pozy tuye +cursing gives a large boost to the gold as well as LMD, hence the total productivity is greater than 4 gold 2 exp.

But it skews towards LMD(+gold) and takes a hit on the EXP

should that be called suboptimal when considering the golden ratio?

[summer kernel]

1. TP%:FAC% answers how much you should trade TP% for FAC%. An example is the case of Dead Lancet discussions
2. the distance to the ratio is irrelevant bc the point is that the first thing you have to is get to the LMD:EXP ratio. We're talking about droning and making base swaps to maximize LMD and EXP after we've reached the ratio.
   3)the TP%:FAC% doesnt depend on the roster you have besides if you have Teq/Prov and if youre Max Right.

[stoic spoke]

okay. point 3 makes it clear

[summer kernel]

2. So in practice, its saying:
   OK here's my setup. It's in the range of my desired LMD:EXP ratio after droning to balance things out. How can i improve my LMD and EXP outputs? Should I trade 5%TP for 7%EXP and change my droning allotments? Would that improve my total production?

[arctic prism]

lets say your base made you 1400lmd and 1000 exp (somehow after everything) except for drones

to make 1000 exp, you need 60 drones
and you need 24 to make 500 lmd worth of gold
in order to reach 1400 lmd worth of gold you would need 67.2 drones
in lv2 proviso tp, to convert 1400 lmd, you need 36.145 drones
in order to maintain the 1.4:1 ratio, you would need to distribute your drones in this specific ratio

from this we can say that the impact of 1 drone is different depending on what you use it on, right?

now consider someone who values exp a lot and wants a 1:1 ratio between lmd and xp
now the equation becomes
1000 xp = 60 drones
2 gold (1000 lmd) = 48 drones
1000 lmd = 25.81 drones
the ratio of required drone usage is completely different

only ratio that stays consistent is the lmd:gold ratio which is more or less how we get the proviso multiplier

[summer kernel]

output products are different but MSV of sum should be the same following Peter's line.

[arctic prism]

im not sure I understand the fixation on MSV in this case

the end goal is to reach a target lmd:xp equilibrium

by which we are literally saying, if we make exactly this ratio forever until the end of time, we will have perfectly used up all our lmd and xp equally when you finish maxing out all the operators to the level that you desired

any excess on either side cant be used

the msv of lmd that you cant use is 0

same with msv of xp that you cant use

[stoic spoke]

Here, we are basing the value of LMD, GOLD and EXP on the drones. Shouldn't another contributing factor be the availability of % skill productivity distribution that we have for TP and FAC operators (which is highly skewed)?

• TP can reach 200%+ raw TP & proviso to amplify it further
• On the other hand Gold FAC teams only do +120-130% at max

so in a way isn't GOLD FAC's Productivity % more valuable due to less availability or something?
which would bring us back to taking the LMD:EXP,GOLD produced as a factor too for calculating "Should I trade 5%TP for 7%EXP"

[summer kernel]

youre right. I think im getting caught up in my own thoughts. The X:X:1 XP: GOLD: LMD droning strategy is not correct.

Let me clarify. The XP:Gold drone values are 1:1, not you should drone XP:Gold in a 1:1 ratio. I think i conflated the two ideas here.

[arctic prism]

unless your target goal changes, which inherently changes your target lmd:xp ratio, this line of thought holds true

[summer kernel]

yes, without dabbling into AO and assuming you will finish whatever your goal is, but ideally if you calc your LMD:EXP properly, they hit 0 value simultaneously in the long term

Lets reclarify bc im kinda getting lost.

1. I think theres a TP%:FAC% ratio number that we can use to see if its worthwhile to trade TP% for FAC% bc that has been assumed to be 1:1 for a while.

2. I think that TP%:FAC% number is only dependent on your TPlvl/Proviso/Teq setup.

3. I think that FAC% = XP% = Gold% for the purposes of maximizing production assuming you can stay within the confines of the LMD:XP ratio.

4. I think we agree on 1 and 2 but not 3. You think that it is only TP% : Gold%

is the above where we are at?

[arctic prism]

yea pretty much, except I would revise 2 to say tp%:gold% rather than fac% due to disagreeing on 3

[stoic spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/read-anime-arturia-arknights-smol-arturia-gif-5354409437828002168

[arctic prism]

like we agree that the xp% you need vs gold% you need in order to hit a target ratio is different right
but like we were saying earlier, the amount of fac% and gold% each drone can make up while attempting to reach equilibrium is different (since we need to allocate drones in a different ratio depending on desired lmd:xp ratio)

let me know if you disagree with the above before i proceed lol

oh actually I have a good example that illustrates my thoughts

[summer kernel]

ok. can we lock in that value? I think thats the real breakthrough today bc it finally means we can go back to your sheet and see that Eu-Dead Lancet is actually real strong and make further TP% vs Gold% tradeoff evaluations without being nebulous about it!

I think the TP%:Gold% is 1.027, 1.592, 1.859 for std lvl3, lvl3 Teq+Prov, and lvl2 Prov TPs.

Basically, for a std lvl3TP if you can get more than 1.027% TP for 1%Gold, it is worth doing.

(as long as you can zero out your gold and meet your LMD:EXP ratio by either droning or changing your base setup)

[arctic prism]

the part I'm fixating on is how you zero out your gold + meet lmd:exp ratio

I think the TP%:Gold% is 1.027, 1.592, 1.859 for std lvl3, lvl3 Teq+Prov, and lvl2 Prov TPs.

Basically, for a std lvl3TP if you can get more than 1.027% TP for 1%Gold, it is worth doing.
but yea this part looks correct to me

[stoic spoke]

I'm witnessing history(breakthrough) in the making

[arctic prism]

but yea in the example I wanted to bring up,
lets say in a theoretical setting you have a fixed tp%, and all you need to do with your base is to put in xp and gold workers to meet the ratio
but you also (somehow) have a supply of drones that is able to fill one of those two needs entirely (whichever needs a smaller number of drones)
you would pump all of those drones into one of either xp or gold, depending on which metric is easier for the drones to satisfy completely, correct?

[stoic spoke]

no, in case the produced gold is already enough to satisfy the fixed tp%, why drone gold?

[arctic prism]

I'm saying you have factory workers, havent placed them in the facs yet so both are at 0%

[stoic spoke]

uhh why aren't we placing em

[summer kernel]

the work for std lvl3 TP.

ignore the XP part for now. not relevant for the 1.027 value here

[silent nova]

3.080 min

Wow

This sheet has gold consumption multipliers in terms of tp1%

actually i guess this isn't comprehensive anymore since pepe

i think the numbers you'r egetting is just gold cons / 1.0265 ❓ or just straight up gold cons

its one of those

[summer kernel]

here's what im thinking of in your hypothetical,

1. I think that XP% = Gold% and value of a drone in either factory is the same so I'd fill up your Facs with the max Gold/XP% to maximize productivity

2. id see if im lacking XP or LMD from TP to satisfy my LMD:XP ratio.

2a) if im lacking LMD, id drone Gold and TP and if that doesnt work, id have to trade off my XP% for Gold% or TP%, depending on which one is best based on the 1.027, 1.6, or 1.8 ratio we just talked about. This will lower our raw productivity numbers but be better overall bc we are in the regime where any XP% is worth trading for TP% and Gold%.

2b) if im lacking XP, I'd drone XP and see if that works out. I'd have to drone Gold too if necessary to feed my TPs but if that doesnt satisfy my LMD:EXP ratio and/or reach net zero gold, i'd have to trade off my TP% since we are in the regime where any TP% is worth trading for FAC%s. I think XP% and Gold% are clearly 1:1 in this case.

3. you may have to consider reducing your effective TP% to maximize total base output while adhering to the desired LMD:EXP ratio. This may come

[jaunty notch]

just so you're aware, the whole product = drone thing won't work with teq and proviso

also, like the whole ratio thing is whatever, just adjust on the fly. It ain't spilling

[summer kernel]

the 1.0265 multiplier (ive been rounding) basically comes down to the math from the time ratio of spending a gold bar and making a gold bar. It could have been any number, thats just how the math worked out.

[stoic spoke]

please tell me why the 100% instead of average of best (say 5) teams of TP and gold

drones for boosting will stay as that for 100%, but the average % of best teams somehow matters
because there's ample high % value workers for TP and comparatively lower % value workers for GOLD

[summer kernel]

Im not clear with what youre saying, what's wrong with this for lvl3 TP with Teq/Prov?

[summer kernel]

Ignore the nerd stuff, I think the TLDR if this math works out is you trade 10 TP% for 18.4% Gold if you run max right and 17.0% Gold if max left

[silent nova]

tp level / tailoring / teq / prov / i gorgot / ... / prod mult / gold consumption mult

[summer kernel]

It's proviso + teq multiplier effect x 1.027

[arctic prism]

for this one I agree with the equations but cant wrap my head around your conclusion
I'm thinking of it more like for each 1% tp you have, you also need 1.0265% gold prod
so in order to benefit from adding +100% tp with workers, you would also need to have add +102.65% gold from factories (ignoring external gold sources)

[jaunty notch]

it's like how pro/teq increases drone multiplier when you use them, you're working with stuff that applies unconventional calcs into your final result

[silent nova]

what is

[summer kernel]

yeah, so if i trade 100% TP for more than 102.65% Gold*, I come out ahead if i can make up the difference in the lmd deficit by droning and maybe even switching from 252 to 342.

*updated the numbers

[keen gale]

is this amount of lmd production good enough for 252 or can it be higher?

[stoic spoke]

gold is dead

[arctic prism]

what happened to your gold my guy

but depending on your level of progression the lmd numbers look fine

[summer kernel]

the TP%:Gold% ratio that we're discussing. It's a WIP right now

[rigid plume]

Your TPs will die soon at that rate.

[silent nova]

these numbers are already kinda known lol

[keen gale]

oh i thought making most of my fact exp bc my gold is 2k ish is a good idea.mb

[rigid plume]

How much gold you have left?

[keen gale]

1k

[rigid plume]

Ah

You'll die in 4-5 months.

[keen gale]

good enough,thanks i change them into gold when im below 700

[stoic spoke]

@uncut dome update your sheet to account for cursing

I'm somehow still gaining gold wtf

[pale yoke]

3xp 2gold?

[uncut dome]

[arctic prism]

like if you have 205.31% gold prod, you could theoretically drone up to 100% worth of tp% on your tp to keep the ratio? is that what you're saying or

[stoic spoke]

https://tenor.com/view/red-projekt-arknights-tail-provence-gif-22285642

[stoic spoke]

surely today's #r-i-i-c fierce discussion ought to have reignited the spark within you, albeit dormant.

https://tenor.com/view/gunnawritingthatheatlmao-gif-18603548

[arctic prism]

i thought i was following along the whole time but im so lost now lmao

bc yea like jira said feels like we're just treading old ground again

[pale yoke]

im so lost now i afriad to have any input at this point

[silent nova]

for every 1 drone on tp3 you require 1.0265 drones on gold to keep up added input from tp3 drone

and in general ou need 102.65% gold prod for every 100% tp3{no teq, no prov, no tailoring} prod to maintain stable gold****

[arctic prism]

ngl ive lowkey felt like this for a while but was in too deep so i couldnt get out

[silent nova]

i don't really know what scholarmeans by trading 102.65% gold for more than 100% tp3

[arctic prism]

yea thats the part im confused on too

i assume it's something like making up the excess tp% by droning gold or something but

[arctic prism]

im also like very confused at what my own stance is at this point bc stuff was making sense in my head for a while until it didnt and now im doubting myself

[silent nova]

[pale yoke]

you need a factory reset, now repeat after me

BIG

NUMBER

GOOD

[arctic prism]

BIG

NUMBER

GOOD

[pale yoke]

nice, i agree with that statement

[silent nova]

the real answer here right

is that lmd and xp have 0 value because their demands will be fulfilled earlier than material demands

[arctic prism]

this is

true

[silent nova]

i ran luzark planner on my numbers like a couple years ago and that was the result for me lol

and my rotations aren't even that great

[arctic prism]

i checked in krooster by manually inputting every single op at max everything as a "goal" in the planner
then also checked how much of everything I used by setting my current acc as a goal from another krooster acc that had nothing
can confirm im miles away from hitting material demands but in comparison quite close to satisfying xp/lmd demands

[silent nova]

wow

[arctic prism]

like I could see the end of the tunnel for xp/lmd but nowhere near for mats

[silent nova]

since when did i have 30m exp

[stoic spoke]

I had the same query the other day and they said it didn't have option to do it all at once

did you do that for every op?

[arctic prism]

ye

[stoic spoke]

wtf

[arctic prism]

[fluid pollen]

Simply biased

[silent nova]

wow

[stoic spoke]

my solution was to export the json and apply parsing

[arctic prism]

that would have been smart

exporting goals to json + modifying then reimporting

unfortunately i was dum

[silent nova]

jayson

[arctic prism]

and manually entered all of it

website uber lags for me whenever i open planner

[fluid pollen]

How long did it take

[stoic spoke]

oh yeah that too. I just made a separate notebook

[arctic prism]

like a couple hours or something idk

[silent nova]

i think there was a point in time where planner state was url encoded

[stoic spoke]

lememe share

[arctic prism]

was while i was slacking off at work so

[silent nova]

maybe travel back in time and just generate that url

[fluid pollen]

Wayback machine surely

[arctic prism]

but yea slightly less accurate now bc slightly outdated compared to when I entered the data but this is the result

[fluid pollen]

100m exp and 200m lmd is not close

[arctic prism]

yea but compared to the mats it is

[fluid pollen]

The mats is….

[arctic prism]

[fluid pollen]

Just the skill books alone…..

[arctic prism]

yea

[fluid pollen]

been running out of mats recently

[arctic prism]

oh i found the one from empty acc
this is why I was saying xp lmd kinda close in comparison

like there's a significant dent made in xp/lmd progression but for mats it's like

no difference

[silent nova]

phhh that's why krooster says i have 30m exp

i don't

it's lying

i only have 2m exp

only 2.7m

[stoic spoke]

[fluid pollen]

[fluid pollen]

not made out of galaxies

[stoic spoke]

are there whales who have everything maxed?

[fluid pollen]

Interestingly, no chip catalysts

Everything max level likely?

Not sure about skills

[stoic spoke]

everything

[arctic prism]

id be genuinely impressed if there is one

[stoic spoke]

[arctic prism]

thats gotta be like

[fluid pollen]

I’d be genuinely disappointed

[arctic prism]

several million dollars worth of just spent on stamina for mats or some sht

[stoic spoke]

[silent nova]

do you believe whales have 10x your mat prod

i could believe it

[arctic prism]

that is...

pretty fair ngl

didnt think of it that way

hmmmmmmmm maybe there are then

[silent nova]

well no its not

mostly cuz of mods

[arctic prism]

[silent nova]

i don't think there's bee eonugh time for 2k mod blocks

even if they bu ythe packs

actually idk

i don't buy packs

[arctic prism]

why u do this lmao

[fluid pollen]

18 op a day.

Maybe mods not maxed but m9 maxed level is believable.

[silent nova]

oh but there also are the insta m3 tickets and stuff too

[fluid pollen]

Right.

[arctic prism]

yea i guess mod blocks are the restriction

[silent nova]

so having everything non time gated maxxed is believable for richie rich

[arctic prism]

dam

[silent nova]

how mnay dollars is 18 op a day

[meager meadow]

there used to be one or two in the server who actively talked

not sure where they are at now

[silent nova]

yeah kestrel

[uncut dome]

I have someone friended who gets like 200 trust on like day 1 a new op is released

[teal berry]

helloo which are the best operators for base to use information fragments on. Is Bena one of them?

[silent nova]

aren't those the story things

[teal berry]

yupp

[meager meadow]

bena is decent
you can view the base combos sheet for a reference

[arctic prism]

wtf LOL

[silent nova]

200% trust is only like what

how many points is it again

like 180k

[fluid pollen]

Is it 185 op for $100?

[arctic prism]

smth like that ye

[meager meadow]

i feel like if you come from a hoyo game, maxing everything in arknights is a walk in the park

[fluid pollen]

Well it’ll last you 10 days.

[silent nova]

oh wh did i think 180k

its 25570 trust points

[arctic prism]

idk tho like maxing maxing everything sounds like a lot of effort too no? considering training room time and farming time and whatever else

[silent nova]

oh that's a lot easier than i thought

only like

[meager meadow]

yeah but with how costly dupes and cones are in a hoyo game

arknights is barely any effort

[silent nova]

142.0 555… refreshes of sanity

trivial really

[meager meadow]

just more time spent clicking

but we got...ways for that....

[stoic spoke]

somehow after this talk and seeing the resources required krooster ss, I no longer feel likes getting monthly cards

[arctic prism]

feel like tho for the most part it's the effort part that I'd be doubtful of bc it's like
sure you can pay your way to max everything in hoyo but it's less paying and more playing to max in ak (from what I understand)

[fluid pollen]

It’s just automating farming no?

With op

[meager meadow]

yh

[fluid pollen]

[meager meadow]

it's the same thing in both games really

but material gatekeeping in arknights can pose issues

[arctic prism]

lol i guess if you running some macro to do the farming it makes sense

[meager meadow]

that's a minor bump though

[uncut dome]

Wait is 1op now 180 sanity or still 135?

[meager meadow]

latter

[fluid pollen]

135

[silent nova]

oh fr

[fluid pollen]

Yea it doesn’t go up to cap.

[stoic spoke]

derive the sanity value of Originite prime using drones when

[fluid pollen]

Everyone just gets 135 now

[silent nova]

this has been done

or at least a range

[meager meadow]

yeah HG hates increasing value of originite any further

[stoic spoke]

bruh

[arctic prism]

ye was dependent on how much you value a pull or smth

[silent nova]

that has also been done

[uncut dome]

A bit lower than this then due to 50% for new operators on events

Around 126

[silent nova]

the drones one

its soooomewhere here

im not gonna find it

[fluid pollen]

calc the total amt of san needed to max everything inclusive of daily/event rewards and such.

[stoic spoke]

the elder scrolls

[uncut dome]

Mod block gates

[fluid pollen]

We count that as theoretical money spend

[arctic prism]

lmao yea HG really just told the mega whales "you guys maxed everything? cant have that"

[uncut dome]

Oh right about that, is mod block pack catching up to how many new mods we're getting

[fluid pollen]

too bad, here’s some blocks to purchase

[arctic prism]

are they on sale frequently enough to do this? I didnt think it was even close tbh

[silent nova]

this has been done like a whilel ago

[uncut dome]

[fluid pollen]

Damn who was so bored.

[silent nova]

we have msvs calculated because that was done

https://colab.research.google.com/drive/1lHwJDG7WCAr3KMlxY-HLyD8-yG3boazq

i mean now idk if it works cuz its outdat4ed but

[arctic prism]

is this luzark planner

[silent nova]

yeah

[arctic prism]

figured yea i remember seeing that thing from ages ago too

[silent nova]

peter has his own version thats up to date ............. i think ............ i also don't think he relased it though

[arctic prism]

was shocking when i saw it for the first time in like a holy shit someone made this kind of way

[silent nova]

i'm personally a hater of msvs

[arctic prism]

lol why

[fluid pollen]

Wonder how long it took

[silent nova]

the notion of minimizing time to meet demands is all good and all

but then computing the dual for msvs is like

now you're maximizing demand * msvs sum over materials constrained by sum prob * msvs <= sanity cost of stage

which is like

i guess that works

but if you present that set of equations to someone it's nonsense

[arctic prism]

lol yea that's true
i do like the theory behind it though

[stoic spoke]

present it in #help

[fluid pollen]

Do you read help?

[silent nova]

there's maybe like 5 people in help who can understand the primary lp much less the dual

the dual lp is like what

[stoic spoke]

I check their profile date before reading views there

[silent nova]

solving for the maximum minimum time given constraints ❓ alright

i don't really know how to reconcile that with msvs

[fluid pollen]

That’s crazy

[silent nova]

maybe i'm just not lp pilled enough

[fluid pollen]

Like their discord join date?

[pale yoke]

we have a word for that

[uncut dome]

[fluid pollen]

What’s the word?

[pale yoke]

b-based

[fluid pollen]

every base comment is just raise proviso and drone lmd

[stoic spoke]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1180149021298409482/1349185812813582427/9EDBF1F45E8B58CA290AB9D4FB287EE6_0.gif

[pale yoke]

and 252 propaganda

[fluid pollen]

Yea shame

[silent nova]

never mind it just clicked i'm an msv lover now

[arctic prism]

ngl all those terms flew way over my head but the explanations i read behind the concepts sounded good enough for me to be like yup seems legit lol

[arctic prism]

huh

[fluid pollen]

Bro speed ran the 5 stages of grief

[silent nova]

no i still have gripes about it on a technical level

not with the lp and dual lp itself

but with people flinging around msvs

but also i guess that's the only way you can communicate the notion of value to en

[fluid pollen]

But you also can’t present the sheet itself to en.

[silent nova]

you know how like

pop science articles sensationalize certain things and then you read the paper behind it and its like wow ok this isn't really what they were talking about

[arctic prism]

yea

[silent nova]

msvs is that for en players

because en players looooooooooooooove to see a stage with > 1.0 eff

news flash that doesn't exist we only have > 1.0 eff stages because we're too lazy to rerun the lp solver

[fluid pollen]

Well people just kinda only read headlines nowadays.

[arctic prism]

oh yea fs that def was a huge thing like way back especially

in like the first few years of ak

1.0 eff stages all over the place lol

think that one was caused by some other factor but still same principle i think

[silent nova]

i mean its still present we still present stages as "their efficiency is this" without recomputing the lp it's just not as obvious right now becuase all the recent event stages has sucked ass for some reason???? why are all the stages in leizi event < 0.95??? andl ast event too??

[stoic spoke]

eol soon

[arctic prism]

o I thought whoever was posting those recomputed the numbers each time

[silent nova]

no

[arctic prism]

dam

[fluid pollen]

[silent nova]

the thing with recomputing it each time is that say for example that some event stage is now most efficient so it's 1.0

how do you show that

[arctic prism]

1.0 eff lol

[silent nova]

cuz if you devalue the corresponding story stage people will never farm that again because htey will misinterpret it

[arctic prism]

thats tru

[silent nova]

and not realize that the devalued state of that story stage is contingent on the event running

[fluid pollen]

Does it compare against the best story stage?

[silent nova]

yeah it currently does

but its always 1.0

this is how it's being presented righ tnow

and if an event stage is more efficient it gets shown as like > 1.0 and story is still 1.0

objectively correct way is to show event stage as 1.0 and story as < 1.0 but that's en-incompatible

[arctic prism]

is it computing permanently accessible stages completely separately from event ones?

then applying same msvs to event stages

[silent nova]

yeah

[fluid pollen]

[arctic prism]

I see but you're saying because the event stages should have an impact over the actual msvs it's not actually accurate to use it in this way

[silent nova]

i actually don't know how often the msvs get updated

yeah

[arctic prism]

that makes sense

[silent nova]

this has been going on since the start of the server lpol

ike a known issue for ages

it's never gonna change

[arctic prism]

lol

[fluid pollen]

[arctic prism]

i guess it's just meant to be taken as a point of reference more than a literal this is the value of xyz thing, just is easier for people to understand it when you dumb it down and say this equals this type of thing

[silent nova]

yeah

it's a matter of sacrificing technica correctness for communication

cuz expecting people to know of lp is maybe a bit too much

like normalizing to tp3 instead of tp1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[arctic prism]

lol i mean for majority of people it shouldnt make too big of a difference either way, since most people just want to be told "hey do this because of x reason"

is more convenient i guess

like in the end it wont make a significant impact because hardly anyone is actually going to even get close to satisfying all of their mat demands

which is more or less the scenario that the technical correctness would help in achieving

[stoic spoke]

I should work

add the login verification

[pale yoke]

Hi riic I'm f2p new player been playing for months is this good?

[stoic spoke]

it's all magnets

[pale yoke]

as easy as breathing

[uncut dome]

Needs more clue 7

[stoic spoke]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/586588921614303233/1448650189270290476/rn_image_picker_lib_temp_ef56d0d4-f148-442f-a496-28ace7ae36d9.gif

very balans produce

give rotations

I copy

[arctic prism]

that's more or less what cursed 153 produces

[fluid pollen]

Oh.

[arctic prism]

p much had the same reports when i was running that lol

[fluid pollen]

Cursed?

[arctic prism]

ye

[stoic spoke]

drones on exp?

[arctic prism]

no on tp

[pale yoke]

cursed 153 drone tp? can it even really?

[stoic spoke]

why

[arctic prism]

I mean it got p close to that ss

[stoic spoke]

whats better value between the two

[arctic prism]

think the avg lmd was a bit lower but more or less similar

[fluid pollen]

Prolly 3 exp 2 gold?

[arctic prism]

ye

[arctic prism]

it's very... unflexible

and generates too much gold

[fluid pollen]

Well new player is better than mine

[arctic prism]

is why i ended up with 2.5k gold

before i switched back to 252

[pale yoke]

#r-i-i-c message

if you follow the reply you get the whole thing

wouldn't recommend

[silent nova]

Can someone make a new rotation for me

[fluid pollen]

The difference between ours is just Gladiia I think?

[silent nova]

I haven't updated ot

[fluid pollen]

Like prod wise

[pale yoke]

iirc yea

[arctic prism]

lmao cant you just use like

gato sample or smth

[pale yoke]

vault has it, i dont use template it's 2nd nature to me i just do rotation accordingly

[silent nova]

What's gato dample

[summer kernel]

Sorry Cho. I had to step away. Let me clear up my thoughts and get back to you on the analysis but thanks for picking my brain.

Im of the opinion that some assumption / logic is faulty.

[pale yoke]

ROUND 2

[summer kernel]

nah im busy again. at the end of the day none of these fac outputs matter lol. The mats are the final boss

And AO if you care about that little pull income. longterm, you either make AO or you let your base rot and wait for sanity for mats

[arctic prism]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SixW_LMuizJ-fOlRuytX623dP0-bVWfxtaM8WwYpYRQ/edit?gid=1187734891#gid=1187734891
this
think first tab is curse
second tab is non curse? or smth like that

[arctic prism]

yea np, thank you too was a fun discussion lol

[silent nova]

Oh man this is 100% teq uptime

I use my fia procs on ncd

[arctic prism]

huh

[fluid pollen]

?????

[pale yoke]

[fluid pollen]

man 13 11 is like a brick.

[silent nova]

Oh I gotta rotate

[uncut dome]

[silent nova]

Is there a wah to program presets so that the rotate button actually works

[fluid pollen]

uncustomisable except for extra stuff

[silent nova]

Fia ncd is the move man

[uncut dome]

Oh right they forgot to fix the rotate button so that it's usable...

[silent nova]

I have 4 thousand rocks I gotta convert

[fluid pollen]

[arctic prism]

[silent nova]

I toyed with the idea of perpetually farming 1-7 to have ncd fuel and I lose everytime

[fluid pollen]

Red would hunt you down

[uncut dome]

Maybe I should also do something like that

[silent nova]

LOL my diff is -190 rocks a day

[uncut dome]

I should finally do it

[pale yoke]

im in red cert + chip hell

[uncut dome]

I've been speaking about it for a while but never done it

I'm gonna Fia Odda

[fluid pollen]

????

[uncut dome]

[pale yoke]

can't beat lancet

[silent nova]

Oh actually

You should fia ncd but use ncd e2 skill

Because that skill gets better the more you use it

[pale yoke]

excuse me what's the hotline for exorcism again?

[arctic prism]

????

[uncut dome]

This channel is just full of cursed people now

[silent nova]

4 days ago I was playing with the idea of a hypothetical base skill trading office% to RR%

Try thinking out that line

Why is that a thing

[uncut dome]

Seeee

[silent nova]

Cuz it might possibly be

[fluid pollen]

Sounds like the same shit you were on.

[winged hollow]

wtf is this 💀

[fluid pollen]

[uncut dome]

Gimme that shop

I like those tickets