lore-discussion-spoilers

[keen shore]

just spitballing not really sure (I am very hungry and not thinking straight) but what if it’s like sunlight? A bit of light gets sent out, it doesn’t get returned to the source, but it keeps cycling through the world and stays there. More darkness and more light has to be sent out, the source dims

[compact shale]

Get food dearie

[keen shore]

It Is Coming <3

[carmine garnet]

Maybe the spirits could have been a first attempt at sky children? It might be why we can mimick expression and get outfits from them yet we can’t physically grow like them?

[tranquil harbor]

We don't know if sky kids can grow up or not. 'Your kid growing over real time' would be a bit of an odd game mechanic, so our kids not growing up isn't really proof of 'they can't grow up'

[carmine garnet]

True but we aren’t able to use growth spells to make them all tall as spirits

[tranquil harbor]

Yet max height is called 'adult' when using a spell like that. 🤔 A fully grown chihuahua isn't the size of a fully grown great dane, but they're both fully grown dogs (hopefully that analogy makes sense)

[icy bone]

I wonder who the bones beside the forest temple belong to do u think there was another king krill but dead :/

[nimble ingot]

they belonged to a whale/big fish

The spirit and skull design matches the name of the creature.

[icy bone]

Oh ye duh because it gives the whale emote I’m so dumb

[undone trench]

I was checking some spirit memories and, I noticed that in some there's other spirits and that made me think of something, does every spirit has a memory like the ones we have in game or only a few have their memories,

[icy bone]

Only few I believe

[undone trench]

Oh, so that explains why on gw there's what it seems to be a statue of what once was a soldier but there's no memory in sight

[carmine garnet]

It might also be the king? I feel like their is a lot of potentional in the environment of pass lives and expression that just aren’t used

[keen shore]

Are you talking about the statue near the catapult ? That guy’s a bit weird, I don’t think they’re a spirit statue but like, a decorative statue maybe

[nimble ingot]

Its fine.

You are not dumb

[tranquil harbor]

Everyone has overlooked something that seems 'obvious' later at one point or another, there's no need to worry

[keen shore]

I didn’t realize you could exit the shipwreck area in GW from that area with the pipes until roughly a year after I started playing. I relived the crab whisperer spirit, the one you have to carry up there, and STILL didnt know

[nimble ingot]

Skykid being like mario, lol

[stable veldt]

I woke up and realized lorechat hasn't talked 'bout gravity again. Was busy yesterday so imma do mass testing today

[tranquil harbor]

-ducks for cover-

[nimble ingot]

Have fun. I am about to crash. 🛏️

[stable veldt]

The time where everybody hits the sack, is the time i woke up and bust out my physics books

[carmine garnet]

I do wonder, do boats in the sky universe are just made for air? Or water? Cause besides abyss I don’t think we’ve seen a lot of boat, we see a lot of wreckage of them tho

[stable veldt]

Stones afaik. In fact, most of stuff in sky were made out of stone. Other option might be clay that turns to stone overtime

[tranquil harbor]

They're made for both air and water travel. They attach mantas to the boats like flying horses when they want to travel by air.

[stable veldt]

I"m stupid i thought you were asking for material

Yeah it's for both air and water travel. I guess it's a design choice to have something "float" through air

[tranquil harbor]

In the switch trailer they have more than mantas as 'horses', but whatever that creature is might be extinct

[boreal nebula]

If it can help, I misread it too

[boreal nebula]

More than Horse.. it is the animal that lifted the chariot on their back

A bit like Rhythm Eagle in rhyThm Ending Cutscene

[tranquil harbor]

I mean, it was still horse like in function. 'pull/carry thing/people from point a to point b'

[frigid tinsel]

it was yolked

[tranquil harbor]

Speaking of the switch trailer, what in the heck happened to isle to make it sandy? It was covered in grass right? The kingdom fell into ruin, so the isle should be overgrown, shouldn't it?

[icy bone]

Thx

[keen shore]

crack him like egg (that is what the spears are for)

[formal skiff]

hm idk, i would say it got all dried up but like... it's surrounded by water-

[pastel brook]

[boreal nebula]

Also, about that trailer.. while today I visited Ark for some purchases, I noticed the lanterns 🏮With purple light

It reminds me of both butterfly when we hold them on hand
AND about the tiny living fireflies that the Beetle Mask was controlling in the Switch Trailer.

It was a sign all along. The use pet butterflies/fireflies as lamp light much more efficient than flames too

[frigid tinsel]

realizing it's yoke not yolk

[icy bone]

Thx

[carmine garnet]

So I feel like: before the kingdom fell.
The isle of dawn was grassy.
The golden wasteland was what? A marsh?
I feel like those two are the most affected areas?

[icy bone]

What about Eden tho

[keen shore]

I’m honestly not sure either. It was mentioned earlier that maybe the cyan light had something to do with it (like blocking off the light), but I feel like if that were true the storm wouldn’t have stopped and it would still be ongoing like gw’s cyclone. Whatever it was, I’m going to theorize was a separate and preceding event to the kingdoms fall, because I like the idea that the enchantment spirits are from desert-timeline isle

[frigid tinsel]

maybe the ancestors were maintaining the plantlife in Isle, but in their absence the plants died cos they were dependent on the ancestors' care?
or perhaps the Eden calamity hit Isle hard and made the soil infertile?

[stable veldt]

Guys. I am stupid. I found a quicker way to find skid's weight

[pastel brook]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/593565781166391316/832872714967842826/Untitled90_20210416150354.png

[frigid tinsel]

skybot says no to math

[stable veldt]

SKYBOT

[carmine garnet]

I feel like Eden was originally the area of the kingdom and the surrounding areas before it got corrupted

[boreal nebula]

Over time sands dunes can "eat" vegetation.. IRL sea erodes beaches and sands dunes gain terrains

Btw, I think the swamped land we see with many River (miles before they reach Isle green "shores") could be ideally the same lands remember/dreamed in Starlight Desert (at least by how far Eden seems in both, the similarities are pretty convincing IMHO)

[pastel brook]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/593565781166391316/832872714967842826/Untitled90_20210416150354.png

[stable veldt]

SKYBOT WE KNOW, BUT YOU'RE TALKING TO A BUNCH OF SKID WHO'S WILLING TO DIG THAT DEEP

[tranquil harbor]

If it ain't that deep I've brought a shovel

[frigid tinsel]

shakes head

[tranquil harbor]

We need one that's in the actual abyss possibly staring down ruby

[rigid mural]

do you think valley slosh is edible ? same color as slushy

[stable veldt]

Back elaborating on this.

A more trustworthy (and accurate) way to measure skid's weight is by their rho . It's pretty much accepted fanon that skids are made out of clay, so why not just, count by their height and volume, time it by the rho of clay?

[frigid tinsel]

...valley slosh?

[tranquil harbor]

Like, the snow? Probably yeah

[rigid mural]

yeah, snow slosh

[stable veldt]

I can see somewhere in the past ancestors silently scoop snow every morning and sell it to the onlookers of the coliseum

[frigid tinsel]

like when the snow is melting but hasn't liquified completely?

[tranquil harbor]

speaking of skybot being a butt, who's profile pic is in that image it always uses?

[frigid tinsel]

i bet it tastes fresh

[keen shore]

I thought this too for a while, but isle is the furthest out from Eden, right? If it got affected that badly by whatever happened, either it was entirely dependent on Eden to some degree to not be affected or everything else would be too.

Maybe all the overproduction and exploitation of the land in other realms directly affected isle by turning it into a desert?

[keen shore]

We could do that, but they seem hollow, and we don’t know how thick the shell is unfortunately

[rigid mural]

could be that isle is among the lowest altitude realms and the sea ate most of it; eden could have caused floods with the shockwaves

[uncut pond]

I haven't been here long enough to know, and I have no idea but I bet that it's either a dev or an old lorechat member

[boreal nebula]

Late. I Know

[stable veldt]

unfortunately true. I've been checking on SFX quite a while, stepping on grass, gold diamonds, stone jars, I can safely assume even with hollow shells, skids are weighted at least 15 kilograms, if not 20 or more. Max at around 30 kg

[icy bone]

Just scroll up ;-;

[carmine garnet]

Maybe all the people maintaining the isle went to other places, like the forest or maybe the wasteland to fight

[frigid tinsel]

not me opening a mass calculator (I'm American)

[stable veldt]

cough I'll convert it to imperial, gimme a minute

[tranquil harbor]

Skybot: -comes in here with picture-
Half of lore chat: -pulls out pitchforks-

[frigid tinsel]

15kg = 33lb
20kg = 441lb
30kg = 66lb

[keen shore]

REAL fact, only reason valley snow is pink is because some guys strawberry cart exploded in the Eden disaster and now it tastes like strawberry slushey

[uncut pond]

Theory: King triggered the Eden cataclysm because he just couldn't stand Skybot anymore
The Eden disaster was a last resort plan to get rid of Skybot once and for all

[stable veldt]

I"m betting my candles on like, around 23 kilos (50.7 lbs)

[tranquil harbor]

Valley snow is pink? I thought it was just the sunset reflecting off

[keen shore]

That’s what they want you to think

[icy bone]

Not me getting in game just to smash my sky kids head into the slush and give my sky kid a treat

[boreal nebula]

It seems the Whale in GW dives into the whirpool

Red Metal Glitch (color alteration)

[stable veldt]

From the pictures, I just notice skids at least have knowledge in aerodynamics: They formed a V formation, the front one usually leads + break all the wind resistance for the ones on the back. Following the logic, skids can also fly longer since lower wind, almost no effort

[tranquil harbor]

In the Trial of Air, despite having no cape, your kid can still 'glide'. Our kids know what they're doing. Like, it's not just 'flight is a movement mechanic' there is proof they've properly learned and understand what they're doing

[stable veldt]

You're saying skids have like college/professor level of aerodynamics while they have to learn form ancestors how to show their emotions? Are we sure skids are living beings not robots?

[frigid tinsel]

I’ve thought that winged light is embued with faint memories of other skykids, including how to fly

[tranquil harbor]

It's possible they fly by instinct.

[stable veldt]

Apparently speeding to a wall mach 5 is also instict until they dinged "ow"

[boreal nebula]

Then what happened to turn Ice Rink into a huge Floor Is Lava?

||Red Metal Glitch (color alteration)||

[uncut pond]

I mean, they could be just constructs/robots...

[frigid tinsel]

They’re also kids so they’re not gonna be adept fliers on the getgo

[keen shore]

The skating tournament had undesired consequences, I will leave it at that

[stable veldt]

This can also imply skids are actually hiveminds...? They can communicate to each other that well and despite all the chaos looks like ants, having the same coordination to do something

[tranquil harbor]

there is also the fact that the kids... hold hands to fly like that... They can't do anything but make a V formation.

[keen shore]

Skykids May be constructs/whatever [since we’re controlling them, it’s hard to tell where we end and they begin] but I’d like to think that that’s unconnected to their emotions, if that makes sense

[stable veldt]

Questionable. In eden they could make a straight line when reaching the ending, granted without wind. So this means they are capable holding to make a straight line, just so happen wind holds them back and make V formation?

[stable veldt]

I can sort of understand this... sorta

[tranquil harbor]

Holding hands with another has one kid completely unable to move as they're led around. Which, might be game mechanic, or the kids are actively going 'okay you're in charge and I don't wanna do anything'. Outside of Eden they're literally getting dragged around. In orbit they're all actively flying to orbit

[uncut pond]

That's what I was trying to say... Sort of

[frigid tinsel]

Not really.

I’ve been favoring the idea that winged light are the imprints of skykids, specifically a mark where many of them have been, hence why they appear in the same places (tho that may be gameplay mechanic, but I like to think in-universe they also appear elsewhere less often) like a well-treaded path in the woods made by many footprints walking the same way.
So winged light is not evidence of skykids hiveminds. Though I have a lot to say about the possibility of hiveminds in Sky, I don’t believe skykids, when in the Sky world, are connected to any hivemind. They’re individuals.

[tranquil harbor]

at the very least, if they were a hivemind, they break off from it and become individuals. I think one iteration of winged light to save the fallen was actually our emotes right?

[stable veldt]

I was more implying to the "skids have trace amount of memories of other skids". which to an extent may be hiveminds. But you also got a point here, same with ennarcia

[potent sedge]

I think that, at first, skids are devoid of emotion, but once they relive memories of spirits, they learn how to experience emotions and stuff, hence why spirits give emotes

[tranquil harbor]

As they gain experience with others, they learn what it means to be alive

[frigid tinsel]

I see a hivemind as a singular mind. Individuals within a hivemind are constantly connected. Winged light doesn’t keep skykids connected but gives them glimpses of other skykids’ minds

[keen shore]

I like to imagine [although there isn’t tons of evidence for it] that skykids have the capability to form a powerful conglomerate, but have been split up from it and barred from reforming somehow. Hence why there’s such a huge focus on friends and community helping us and making us more powerful. With the resultant fused form being.., idk, the king maybe ?

But I have recently become borderline obsessed with making everything in sky conglomerates somehow so might just be me

[uncut pond]

Kinda but no, iirc there was no fallen to save and you just had to reach the Eden beam with the emotes

[frigid tinsel]

So there’s a lot of problems with this interpretation.

Personally I’m not a fan of the “skykids didn’t have emotions to start with” theory cos, as an autistic person who expresses emotion in an atypical way, the whole idea that if someone doesn’t express emotion in a way neurotypical people expect then they don’t have emotions at all has been used to vilify and speak over people like me (that’s not saying that’s what’s happening here but that is saying that’s where that line of thought has ended up) — but that’s getting real. Rather, I’m considering more that skykids always had emotions, just learned means to process & express them via reliving spirit memories (since I too have picked up means of expression that actually worked out for me by copying people). Just cos they look like blank slates doesn’t mean they are or ever were.

[tranquil harbor]

It's kinda ironic that they learn how to be alive from the dead

The thing about the kids, is that TGC really nailed making them act like kids. They jump around and flail their little arms and legs. They touch everything, get them even slightly close to a wall and they'll reach for it, and use both hands if they're close enough. We all know 'fainting' soldier died in that memory, but they completely misunderstand and do a cute lil pratfall. And part of being a kid is learning how to 'behave' by observing the adults around you.

[boreal nebula]

I wonder why there never were green candles

Red Metal Glitch (color alteration)

[stable veldt]

Ditto on this. Skids kinda have emotions imo, they honk wildly if they don't like something, it's just they can't express it quite correctly yet. They will drop down and went "asleep" when no input, which means they feel tired/blanking out. Feelings, just not yet know how to say it

[frigid tinsel]

Fun fact: seasonal candles used to be blue. The color changed cos players were having a hard time finding them. I figure green candles would blend in with the grass

[tranquil harbor]

A lot of weird sky kid behavior isn't weird if you look at them through the lens of 'they're 3-5' rather than 12, or 15.
Honestly I think their max height is around a 5-year-old human (or it was a 7-year-old, I calculated it but forgot. Chibis are like, a little less than 2-years-old, height wise)

[undone trench]

I wonder how big a Krill or elder would be in real life considering skykids aren't that tall,

[stable veldt]

I'm betting on a 2 story house, at max. Elder should probably scale to at least 180 cm/6 foot

[tranquil harbor]

We've managed to calculate how big sky kids are, because while the office isn't canon, the sky kids' heights in relation to it are. Vault Elder is like 5'2, but the twins are over 7 feet (I think. I have bad memory on a good day, never quote me)

[frigid tinsel]

Elder heights:
Isle – 8'9"
Prairie – 15'5"
Forest – 10'1"
Valley – 7'5"
Wasteland – 9'10"
Vault – 5'2"

iirc, a krill is 69ft long, 6ft tall. the leviathan is definitely wayyyyy bigger.
Calculations done by a madlad here: #lore-discussion-spoilers message
Corresponding Google Doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ob6DeBbMUF0bSfeRlfwqSoF_8HWEhp_HMrgiwmZZxsI/edit

[stable veldt]

Even with real life measurements, elders are still flippin tall

[tranquil harbor]

Except for Vault Elder. I'm taller than them.

[frigid tinsel]

Same

[undone trench]

I'm also taller than vault elder, they're way shorter than I expected,

[tranquil harbor]

It's the kind of thing that makes your mind explode when you're tired

[stable veldt]

I'm shorter than elder vault.... what?

[keen shore]

same wolf :-) small gang unite

[tranquil harbor]

At least your outcome was expected. We all expected to have the elders be taller than us, and then Vault Elder came in like 'actually no, some of u r wrong'

[keen shore]

if me and wolf stand on top of each other’s shoulders we can be the height of a normal person /j

[undone trench]

I was seeing some concept art and, apparently those "statues" we see near the entrance of wasteland temple are supposed to look like the king and are turrets, so maybe if they didn't change some things about it, we might have some clues on how the king looks if he still is a thing,

[stable veldt]

2 skids in a trenchcoat, trying to pass in lorechat as tall gang

[tranquil harbor]

King is still a thing yes. King existing is canon. What his exact roll is, we don't get to know

[undone trench]

We can see what seems to be his candle thing like the ones the other elders have on our way to orbit so perhaps he had the same role as the elders

[tranquil harbor]

Currently the popular theory is that the king is eden's elder, yes

[frigid tinsel]

The king also “isn’t around to be saved” anymore

[uncut pond]

Something I always found kinda funny is that the skid's own constellation seems to be some kind of crown/maybe the Eden temple
Like what are you trying to imply, game

[frigid tinsel]

There is the “we are the king” theory which asserts that all skykids are the fragments of the king, prob cos they got shattered in the Eden calamity

[tranquil harbor]

Which can mean so many things. Are the sky kids the king broken into pieces, is the king the winged light, is he actively choosing not to be saved? Is he straight up dead? Did someone else save him earlier than us? So many theories

I really like the idea that he's the golden child we meet when we get stoned to death

[keen shore]

….. >:3

[uncut pond]

I just envisioned a bunch of skids in a trenchcoat trying to pass as an elder and convince the other elders that they're one of them and then one of the Elders is like "omg is that the king"

[soft timber]

Why you basically spitting facts

[stable veldt]

In the middle of chaos, sometimes lorechat has gold

[frigid tinsel]

Fun fact: it’s possible the king was a skykid or a proto-skykid if they’re the Chosen One depicted in the Cave of Prophecies

[tranquil harbor]

Very, very rarely we have something canon to munch on. Every other time we have to make our own food and sky bot comes in here to tell us we're cooking trash

[undone trench]

Classic skybot

[soft timber]

Watch me try to make anything on a stovetop and skybot whacking me with the same pan I'm trying to cook with

[tranquil harbor]

Maybe if the devs fed us every once in a while, we wouldn't cook like this! We're doing our best skybot!

[frigid tinsel]

Thing is we don’t know if, in a particular instance, if it’s a mod or a dev sending in skybot. A dev would know more about the lore than we do, a mod probably wouldn’t

[tranquil harbor]

Mod: -sends in skybot to tell us we're over doing it-
The Dev watching: they were actually right that time...

[undone trench]

Just start rambling nonsense about the lore, if we're wrong skybot will say something, if we're near somewhere it'll be quiet,

[soft timber]

Truth

[carmine garnet]

It could be little bits of light of the king are in every Sky Children? But the idea of the constellation being a crown is interesting
‘ starts writing notes for my fan season about the lore ‘

[soft timber]

Plus it's kinda cool how the crown constellation is called The Light is pretty interesting

[tranquil harbor]

It turns out the light is the friends we made along the way

[stable veldt]

Any implicaton that skid's journey is just a day's worth? Since time is kinda.. iffy in sky between realms, probably we start deadin the morning in isle, ends at night in vault, midnight in eden

[keen shore]

Going to quickly post my king headcanon idea again don’t mind me

||- king is a really powerful light being that got split into different parts due to darkness corruption. They were not a conglomerate but had a singular mind to themselves

• skykids are resultant broken off pieces and are barred from forming back together due to a fear that the disaster would happen again and the long lasting effects of the corruption. However, they still have the instinct that they should act as one, which is why there’s such a big focus on community
• maybe [since they’re broken off pieces of one mind] skykids start out almost one dimensional character wise, representing a single aspect of a personality, but develop more as they continue growing? Playing with this idea currently

[tranquil harbor]

But if we go home and go backwards the time goes backwards. Maybe this is just when the kids like to visit each realm?

[undone trench]

I wonder if home is on the same world as the 7 realms or not, we can see an island on the horizon at home

[tranquil harbor]

Some people theorize home is a fake space only available within our minds (I don't subscribe to that theory myself tho)

[boreal nebula]

Extended diagram of my theory

The Refined Prism form is seen with 3 different stages:
OPAQUE (when Prism is no in any slot and turns into a sort of teal grey color)
TRANSPARENT (when Prism is in a slot and turns into a crystal-clear glass)
SHINY (when Prism is in a slot and candle flame fill it with light, activating whatever circuit the slot is meant to action)

[boreal nebula]

More than fake I'd say not canon, just as a game mechanism, a lobby if you like. Somewhat meta

[frigid tinsel]

I think Homespace is real but not as accessible in-universe as it is in-game. So skykids can only access it by the Home statues

[rigid mural]

im taller than lamed omg

[tranquil harbor]

Meanwhile, I think sky kids are connected to it in the same way friends can unlock the ability to warp to each other. It's special magic

[undone trench]

Some spirits like traveling spirits, quest givers and the boat grandma and some event spirits can be seen in home, so maybe they can access home somehow,

[tranquil harbor]

I mean, the merchant literally has a boat, and leaves sometimes. Which implies it can be traveled to.

[frigid tinsel]

Sleepy Traveler is an enigma

[rigid mural]

also on a symbolic level, maybe the adults in the game are dead because their time is passing/has passed and there needs to be room for the new generation (the sky children)
so we need to give them hope (our light) so they ascend, assured we have the tools to face the challenges of life

not sure im wording myself eloquently, i will try again later

EDIT: replied to the wrong message oops

[tranquil harbor]

The sky kids: 2 feet tall on average and ready to adult themselves!

[uncut pond]

If this is true, that means it canonically would take two skids to reach the height of the shortest elder

[keen shore]

kicks king mechsuit under table please help theyre doing it again

[uncut pond]

Oh god I just imagined a moth accidentally finding the King's mechsuit and wearing it without knowing what it is

[keen shore]

Both valley elders could stand on each others shoulders and still be shorter than prairie elder

[boreal nebula]

Is White King's Cross HomeSpace real?

Dumbledore votes for both

[frigid tinsel]

relevant: https://adzukirin.tumblr.com/post/672733520577380352

[tranquil harbor]

I really want content of the Valley Elders performing sky kid friendship tree emotes.

Vault Elder just casually forcing the other elders to act as stilts for themself

[keen shore]

Please, no. We can’t have a repeat of the high-five incident

[tranquil harbor]

So that's how they lost their arms

[uncut pond]

I just had an idea
What if, instead of behaving like the Messiah-like figure everyone believes he is, the king really just acted like a normal skid?

[frigid tinsel]

And that’s how things went wrong

[tranquil harbor]

"your majesty get your hands off the wall" "Honk"

[keen shore]

They only put effort into solving the kingdoms problems if given pants in return…

[floral grove]

I can imagine the King honking repeatedly at the Elders instead of giving orders lol

[tranquil harbor]

The fall of the kingdom was caused by someone being so sick of the king's honk spam they sabotaged the eden diamond

[frigid tinsel]

so based on this, I made a thing (it's wrong hold up)

[tranquil harbor]

wait hold up, max kid can't be taller than vault

[frigid tinsel]

Oh crap I messed up somewhere

[frosty island]

i think the max kid is too taller than the mid kid?

[frigid tinsel]

Rock rat!

[keen shore]

RATTE

[tranquil harbor]

Rock raaaaaaaat

[keen shore]

was feeling down but that gif brought a smile to my face, ty :-)

[frigid tinsel]

based off this info, I made this
(while i figure out why the program put the skids' heights in wrong, have the Elders)

[tranquil harbor]

Can we get an 'average human height' to compare?

[uncut pond]

I think vault elder can be used as average human height

[tranquil harbor]

Technically they're a lil shorter

[foggy lotus]

unless they’re 6ft

[frigid tinsel]

They’re 5’2”

[undone trench]

I expected isle to be way taller, Prairie and gw to be the same height, I should've compared their height long ago when I was in ||orbit||

[uncut pond]

I refuse to believe prairie elder can be that tall

[foggy lotus]

maybe gw a bit taller than forest??

[tranquil harbor]

Prairie Elder is big and comfy for napping on. It's the law.

[keen shore]

All prairie spirits are… for some reason

[frigid tinsel]

They’re buff

[sharp lichen]

Interesting: I wonder how it connects to the heights given in the cabinet post AND THE ONES THAT I BASED MY ENTIRE GRAVITATIONAL THEORY ON

[tranquil harbor]

Because they're farmers. You expect physical laborers to be large and fit.

Also, you look me in the eye and tell me if Prairie Elder fell asleep outside he wouldn't find 50 sky kids sleeping on him like cats

[keen shore]

They have the type of muscles where it’s not like super sculpted dramatic muscles but they’re still there I hope this makes sense

[stable veldt]

Sup baud, skid's mass, I kinda found it: at least 15 kilos, max 30. My bet on 23 kg

[sharp lichen]

WHAT HOW

[tranquil harbor]

Sculpted muscle on humans is purely aesthetic in nature. Someone who's actually strong will look 'fat'

[stable veldt]

Hearing a bunch of youtube construction noises, looking at density of material, looking at experience bonking around things in my house, calculate

[uncut pond]

Actually I'm pretty sure sculpted muscles can sometimes be a sign of dehydration...

[tranquil harbor]

Which means Prairie Elder can absolutely throw a mountain. Who's stronger, Prairie Elder or Wasteland Elder?

By 'aesthetic' I meant 'useless' tbh

[sharp lichen]

OH SNAP: WE CAN GET TO GRAVITY CALCULATION RIGHT NOW (or at least after dinner)

[frigid tinsel]

Wasteland elder knows how to use weapons

[undone trench]

Just invite a Krill and see how it goes, that'll show who's stronger lol,

[foggy lotus]

Prairie wouldn’t hurt a butterfly

[sharp lichen]

In the meantime, it’ll be good to create a Gravity doc to list all our sources

[frigid tinsel]

so this is what the program shows their heights as:
http://www.mrinitialman.com/OddsEnds/Sizes/compsizes.xhtml?Dawn~male~266.7_Day~male~469.9_Rain~male~307.3_Sunset~male~226.1_Dusk~male~299.7_Night~male~157.5
(screenshot for those if the website doesn't load)

[uncut pond]

Fortunately enough, Krills aren't butterflies... Or at least I don't think they are...

[foggy lotus]

Speaking of krills, what are they and where do they come from?

[frigid tinsel]

corrupted light creatures

[stable veldt]

I'm interested to make this, though I do wonder if i'm good enough to make readable docs

[uncut pond]

I'm very sure they're mantas, or at least the leviathan must be

[undone trench]

The first Krill we see appears from the dark water on the floor, but yet it seems like that dark water lake doesnt even reach our knees, how did that Krill fit there

[uncut pond]

Videogame magic

[tranquil harbor]

clearly, we saw how krill are born

[frigid tinsel]

the laws of physics barely applies to krill

[undone trench]

Oh wait yeah! I just remembered krills can go through walls!

[tranquil harbor]

I think that's gameplay rather than krill actually being intangible

[foggy lotus]

Maybe we just saw the krill getting awakened because they have been disturbed by the light coming from the manta?

[tranquil harbor]

They asked how they came out of knee deep water

[undone trench]

Guess there's only one way to truly know how the krill fit there on that water, I'll got grab my rebreather

[foggy lotus]

Field research time

[tranquil harbor]

Yes, go die for science. An honorable way to go. /jk

[tulip aspen]

w h a t

why and how is ayin so much more massive than tsadi lmao

[tranquil harbor]

Clearly it's because Prairie Elder is a gentle giant literally

[tulip aspen]

i dont like thinking of the 'hivemind' as a single mind; that justifies the personification of the megabird

honestly calling them a hivemind perpetuates all of that in general, which is why i always say "a collective"

[undone trench]

I can't think of any instance where krills naturaly go through walls, all the possibilities I can think of is, the dark water is too dense to us to sink but the krill can swim freely, but we can swim and dive on the dark waters near ark's boat, or krills can just melt and re-form from dark water,

[tranquil harbor]

It's possible there is a grate where the krill spawns, and it closes after the krill comes out

[tulip aspen]

perhaps, and they may possibly move through grates anyhow, rendering them, not intangible, but not exactly.... 'solid' anymore

[keen shore]

I personally think we should just all stick the spirits in a giant soup to merge them and see what happens

[undone trench]

Krills do seem to be dripping dark water, or some sort of dark matter

[frigid tinsel]

so lately I've been viewing the Light & Megabird dynamic like this:

the Light is the collective mass of light, accounting for every single being within the hivemind.
that hivemind can form a single stream of consciousness that acts as its own entity. that is Megabird.

[sharp lichen]

One last thing: is this 15-30 kilograms of mass, or weight?

[stable veldt]

Mass

[foggy lotus]

i read that wrong

[undone trench]

Dw, I thought of that as well when typing

[sharp lichen]

Then it begins. Nothing will be able to stop the inevitable cycle of time, as I calculate what could possibly be lorechat’s greatest achievement in 2022.

[tranquil harbor]

and then finally the math will be gone, and we'll be free to come out of hiding

[foggy lotus]

and my brain will stop hurting!

also i think someone asked for a vid of a crab falling for something idk if this will work for them

[keen shore]

Someone tell me why I’m laughing at a video of a crab being dropped to the bottom of the ocean

[tulip aspen]

yee so still a personification

if and when you have any more thoughts or developments on that take id love to hear it!

[tranquil harbor]

go to bed salem

[harsh pecan]

lol-

[keen shore]

it’s not because I’m tired. I’m just like this

[stable veldt]

The doc, the doc: a doc about sky gravity. Granted it might be really flawed but it's a major step towards sky science!

[tranquil harbor]

were u possessed by the spirit of kronk?

[harsh pecan]

oh no

[tulip aspen]

oke but too bad its bed time /j

also its just fantastic how the physics disputes are still ongoing

[stable veldt]

I'm gonna try to assemble the doc, but my skill is pretty nae nae

[tranquil harbor]

It's not a dispute, everyone working on the gravity thing is a team. And the rest of us are weathering a math storm like we're in eden

[keen shore]

Oh that reminds me… I still haven’t put the carved elder faces in home at the mural doc. Oh no it’s been at least a week

[tulip aspen]

ur disputing against the possibilities not each other lolol

such things often happen with other theorizing as well!

[foggy lotus]

You’ve been talking about gravity for how long now?

[tulip aspen]

eh no rush

ngl we have to get ur masterlist pinned smh

didnt miri say if we have a suggestion like that we can put it in #contact-the-mods ?

[tranquil harbor]

3 days

[foggy lotus]

GRAVITY FOR 3 DAYSS

[stable veldt]

3 days of physics dispute, of rigorous crab testing and skid falling

[frigid tinsel]

what do you have against personifying an entity that has seemed to have made their own decisions already, thus is surely sentient?

[keen shore]

The Stages Of Making an Important Lore Doc

1. have an idea
2. gather evidence
3. assemble the doc
4. realize you forgot something
5. spend the next month avoiding any responsibility of updating it and somehow only remembering it exists when you’re too tired or busy to do anything about it, kicking it to the back of your mind and hiding it under your brain rug

[frigid tinsel]

nobody mention the anatomy doc

[tranquil harbor]

6. show people the lore doc anyway

[harsh pecan]

3 days?????????

[keen shore]

Help there’s so many images. Every time I try to scroll down to the bottom of the doc to add more murals, google drive just breaks

[sharp lichen]

I have got something, but it's not very convincing: The gravity of the Sky world is about 1300 times weaker than the gravity of the Earth world

[tranquil harbor]

That explains why our kids can fly if they're heavy. (or magic. magic explains it pretty well)

[sharp lichen]

it's not official, i need to do more testing

[stable veldt]

This might also explain the gigantic sizes of some ancestor + their ability to carry heavy jars.

People without shackled by gravity will grow higher and taller, but they'll be more fragile

This might answer a lot of stuff actually, like how strong are the ancestors, why they're really tall, etc etc.

In short: sky science prevails

[sharp lichen]

However, there may be a problem with cross-sectional area: should I measure the entire body of a skykid, or the body without its cape? I will see

[tranquil harbor]

They're tall compared to sky kids, but our kids max out at 3'10. Wouldn't ancestors be around 5-6 feet themselves?

[stable veldt]

I would suggest without the cape. Officially, capes have negligable mass since it looks very thin and quite flimsy with how it flaps with the wind + the thickness in-game

[frigid tinsel]

okay so here is a visualization of the heights in Sky, including the Elders and skykids, based off the madlad's calculations.
(i also fixed my color replacement tool)

[sharp lichen]

Who’s the madlad?

[frigid tinsel]

legokidlogan, done here: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[tranquil harbor]

the one who walked so u could fly

[sharp lichen]

@green pine, Thank you.

[harsh pecan]

we're basically ants

[stable veldt]

WAIT THEY'RE ALIVE

[frigid tinsel]

Baudshaw did ping them

[tranquil harbor]

Their last post was months ago. Lol they really showed up basically instantly

[stable veldt]

This is it. Hail legokidlogan, thank you for the entire lorechat for keeping up with our calculations

[tranquil harbor]

They've been at this for 3 days.

[green pine]

I've unfortunately been too busy with a ton of things to be able to touch sky or this server for probably two years by now, but I'm still here 👀

[harsh pecan]

thank you

[sharp lichen]

It’s like the Vault Elder cutscene where all the Elders kneel to you

[stable veldt]

Thank you legokid

[frigid tinsel]

that's understandable. but you've done some great work and math I wouldn't like to do, so thank you for your contribution to the Sky lore community

[stable veldt]

Fat thank you to Baudshaw for doing calculations + drag. I'm just here doing testing n stuff aha

If i find any miscalculations on mass, i'll try to update/recalculate

[green pine]

No problem! It was pretty fun to do, all things considered
Having to look all over the place for irl sizes of various game awards via obscure sites until I could finally pin something down
And tons of fun visiting all the elders with OOB table tricks

Speaking of, how are OOB tricks doing nowadays? I think I remember hearing rumors of some tricks getting patched out or worked on at some point, but I'm not sure

[tranquil harbor]

The only oob I know is the Valley Elder's arena, and I can just fly to that. Oh, the top of the forest near Granny's is still around too!

[harsh pecan]

i really like that one

[tranquil harbor]

I forgot some friends showed me that place.

[sharp lichen]

So, the Sky world is 0.0007 gs. That’s alarmingly low, but I’m okay with it.

[tranquil harbor]

Is that dangerous to humans?

[sharp lichen]

To humans, it’s nothing. You’re essentially in space. But, I’d assume ancestor bodies to be much, much weaker

[formal skiff]

How did you figure that out and what does it mean?

[green pine]

ik the movement is real dang floaty, but 0.0007 gs sounds far to low, even for the small size of the skykids
I might have to take a look into that at some point

[sharp lichen]

This handy dandy equation. This means many things, which we’ll have to find out. Like what Sky says, the journey has only begun.

[tranquil harbor]

I love that Baudshaw actually managed to instantly summon them and they proceeded to get into it

[green pine]

We don't know mass, density, cross-sectional area (at least not by any reasonable measures), or whatever that C is

[harsh pecan]

ping me when the topic doesnt include math

[tranquil harbor]

They've been calculating stuff for three days, but I haven't been paying attention to know what their numbers are. I know at least one thing they're running off of is 'the sky kids are clay' theory but-

[sharp lichen]

Mass is thanks to @stable veldt. Air density barely affects the equation and is affected by temperature, which has to be a certain range due to liquid water. Cross sectional-area is thanks to @sharp lichen. C is thanks to https://courses.lumenlearning.com/physics/chapter/5-2-drag-forces/

[tranquil harbor]

Baudshaw share the numbers

[sharp lichen]

I will, I will

[green pine]

What are the values of mass and area, and how/where were they obtained?
We can't possibly know the density of the skykids, surely

[tranquil harbor]

I thought u got so excited u forgot

[green pine]

You'd need to measure height from ground and time to fall to get an estimate via g = 2h/t², though it wouldn't be able to account for drag forces, as getting skykid mass (or density and volume) isn't feasible as far as I know

[sharp lichen]

Ok, I’ve managed to trim it down to a much better 0.001 g

[tranquil harbor]

Something something, they're assuming sky kids are made of clay and 'empty' inside. I think.

[sharp lichen]

TrickyWolfer, your time to explain!

[tulip aspen]

which is accurate!

[tranquil harbor]

I still don't believe it

[green pine]

Would need some real clear evidence to know if they're clay or not
Also, another thing to keep in mind, is that skykids fall very differently when they are out of light or capeless versus having a lit cape, and very different still compared to other objects and creatures. We'd likely need to study the falling rates of a lot of different moving entities to get an idea of the real gravity

[tulip aspen]

understandable

[tranquil harbor]

If you want 'sky kids are clay' evidence, that's Jam's baby and they should be happy to explain

[tulip aspen]

capeless skids fall at the exact same speed as a caped skid, and even can glide as if they had a cape

the only gameplay advantage having a capr gives you is flaps; gliding is something skids retain naturally

you could chalk this off as just a gameplay thing if you want, but-

[sharp lichen]

Here’s what I got, where 1.2 is meters per second, 0.7 is the gravity coefficient (which I borrowed from a human), 0.186 is the cross-sectional area, and 15 is the minimum mass.

I’m sorry, I’m horrible at explaining all this

[green pine]

This didn't used to be true, did they change it? I very distinctly remember that having 0 stars and being completely capeless (not just out of flaps) causes you to plummet to the ground much faster than if you still had a cape.

[tulip aspen]

clayshell is not my baby, just something i heavily campaigned (and campaign) for

alasdair is technically the original author of the concept; but i coined the term and started pushing heavily for it

[tulip aspen]

unless you're a decently older vet than i am (born prophecy) than no

i wasnt talking about lacking flaps; i was indeed referencing being fully capeless, and even being damaged (krilled)

[tranquil harbor]

I'm pretty sure they're using prophecy. Saying kids retain glide is something I talked about (repeatedly, but for something else)

[green pine]

I joined about a year or so after the game's initial release, iirc
Shortly after the very first two season events (aka Gratitude and Lightseekers, my first event was Belonging)

[tulip aspen]

ah, so dreams or prophecy then (?)
oh wait wha

[sharp lichen]

I joined the game in June 2020, and I started to do lore at around August/September of the same year

[frigid tinsel]

they have the season of Rhythm role

[tulip aspen]

astute as ever al

alasdair might you have the clayshell evidence on hand

[tranquil harbor]

Lore so vague we have to use theories to create our theories

[formal skiff]

Ikr 😔

[tranquil harbor]

Devs we're starving

[kind musk]

just came here to discuss gravity

[frigid tinsel]

I didn't coin the idea that skykids are made of clay, I'm pretty sure I picked it up from my past of lurking in lorechat before I began participating. there are other possibilities for the material their shell if made out of, but there is simply more evidence that they are made of clay.

[sharp lichen]

It’s 0.001 to 0.0005 meters per second for universal gravity, which means that it’s incredibly weak.

We could also use this info to calculate the mass (and weight) of elders, krills, etc.

[tranquil harbor]

Oh so that's why the currencies are candles. You light candles to get more light, and when you get enough to make a flame you put it on a candle

[keen shore]

Psst what should I call the circular symbols the spirits are holding here? I’m going to make them a tag in the mural document so that they can be tracked easily. I’m thinking “spherelight” to distinguish them from the light symbol

[kind musk]

We actually know that the default mask and the non-seasonal masks are made of stone, while the capes are made purely of light, that's why they have no shadow

[tranquil harbor]

But is it a heavy stone?

[keen shore]

Hello Being of Measurement /j

[frigid tinsel]

yea, I've heard that a dev have said that masks are made of stone, but I don't believe it. as with other cosmetics, the masks disappear when skykids are extinguished and reappears when relit, so it has to be light.

perhaps ancestors' masks were made of stone, but skykids' masks are probably made of light like their hair and clothes and whatnot.

[kind musk]

All the other cosmetics also disappear (with the exception of the capes) and they do have shadow. But it may be something more of a magical stone, something sacred idk

[tranquil harbor]

I was about to say, you were really about to pull a 'season of sanctuary isn't canon' on us

[keen shore]

Since no one has objected, I’m just going to say spherelight is an okay tag until the symbol gets a better name

[green pine]

iirc the non-metal masks are made of fired clay as per their color and texture, while skykids are made of some unknown, somewhat magical material due to its odd appearance and traits like glowing extremely brightly (where their bodies are clearly glowing, it's not a thin material with a light shining from inside)

[tulip aspen]

not exactly clay, that's just the term we use; referencing concept art where they were 'made of clay' so to speak

children of the light generally are pure beings of Light, made of nothing else but the Light

primarily off the strongest visual evidence; skykids and ancestors turn into statues, their outer 'skin' (but to us, shells) being petrified and cracking, with the Light inside being able to be visually seen through the cracks

if children of the light are pure light, we've deduced that they gain their shells the moment they crash into the earth, so then their shells are created from the earth around them, not necessarily clay, but definitely earthen material

this is reinforced by the concept art showing skids, ancestors, and elders back when elders were more physical, being made of clay, charcoal, and ash (respectively i believe)
[remember, concepts cannot be used as the base of a theory, but it can reinforce theories with proper in game visual anecdotes]

from there we have dozens of smaller 'evidences', the most common one being the different sounds we make while walking on different things;
on stone, it creates an echo, on ice, it creates a loud rocky sound, ect ect

another one then being that cosmetics aren't seen, showing they are made of light; so only the 'shell' is 'real'

[kind musk]

Ahem, circular glyph with a dot in the center and four lines in the z and x axes

[frigid tinsel]

that outline is outdated btw, Jam, use this instead:
My Working Theory on the Composition of a Skykid
–clothing, hair, masks & other cosmetics made of light.
–a humanoid physical shell made of some magic-induced earthen material (i.e. clay, stone, ash, charcoal, meteorite) that has a hole in the chest and eyes.
–this hollow shell is full of light, such as winged light and neutral light.
–their cape, a manifestation of winged light.
–their flame, manifesting as the light in the hole in their chest and held outside their bodies via a red candle.
–their soul, appearing as a blue sparkle.

[tulip aspen]

thats a great idea!
ill support you in that coining, as you know i love when we make it easier to communicate by coining theories and terms

[tulip aspen]

ooh yea def, sorry that doc is currently outdated until i prove properly that ancestors are clayshelled too

[kind musk]

There's also that weird theory of blind skykids, which personally is weird. Meanwhile the prophecy masks show four eyes

[green pine]

The irl reason why cosmetics don't have shadows is due to the dev and rendering overhead it'd create, it'd be too intense for many phones to handle rendering shadows for so many individual objects all at once. I don't remember the exact source, but it was something discussed in a dev interview or the like

We could come up with ideas that explain it in the lore, but just be aware that it would be more of a retcon to explain the inconsistency more than anything else.

[frigid tinsel]

iirc only the "shell" has a shadow, nothing else does because those cosmetics are made of light

[kind musk]

Ok, but also makes sense, something that emits light shouldn't have a shadow

[keen shore]

Okay, writing down “circular glyph with a dot in the center and four lines in the z and x axes” as a tag /j

[tulip aspen]

well of course fam

theres some things we do

1. for fun cos it sounds nice
2. it allows them a more technical excuse

its definitely not the main piece of evidence, as ive stated above

[kind musk]

Lore channel has been this active these days? Woah, this is my message number 1703 in this channel I should come back

[green pine]

Sounds pretty good! However, the material skids are composed of is almost definitely not something we could find a good stand-in for irl, so we still don't really know skid density or mass for our gravity conundrum earlier, as a side note.

[tranquil harbor]

Sometimes it's nice to just accept that 'thing exists in universe but not in game because of tech reasons' but no one ever wants to do that

[tulip aspen]

ive been here since november, we be thriving lol

[frigid tinsel]

i've been saying this a lot but a question lorechat struggles with is: what's true in-universe, what's a gameplay mechanic, and what's a technical limitation?

[tranquil harbor]

I mean, half of us have been periodically hiding from the math involved in the gravity theory for the past 3 days, but otherwise it's pretty active

[native shoal]

Did we get gravity?

[tulip aspen]

its more fun to not do that, and imo theres no harm in using that or not using that as evidence, nor is there harm in not denying us to use as minor evidence

[tulip aspen]

yee very true, we have no idea what exactly the composition of the earth their shell is created out of is

[tranquil harbor]

It depends on the theory. Like, I don't wanna be crafting theories about why ancestors have mitten hands when I know it's canon they have fingers. Sometimes it's exhausting to try to explain away every little thing.
But like, you're also right in that you're allowed to have fun with it. I'm not saying your way is wrong

[sharp lichen]

THE ELDER FELL! WE COULD CALCULATE THEIR WEIGHT

[tranquil harbor]

no but baudshaw summoned someone from the dead

[native shoal]

Yeah

[tulip aspen]

yee, i would have a problem with being confident in it completely, if it weren't for all of the other massively overwhelming evidence alasdair and i have crafted over the past 3 months

[keen shore]

Also adding “colorlights” as a tag for all the ench & proph lights

[sharp lichen]

Yes and no

[green pine]

If we wanted to find gravity, we'll need to take a bunch of measurements and recordings of skykids (without them gliding, if possible), crabs, and really anything we can get our hands on to make fall, and obtain various values of g = 2h/t² and extrapolate from there

[tranquil harbor]

So, essentially, we need to increase our test numbers?

[green pine]

We don't have their mass, gravity, density, (accurate) volume, or a good shot for making measurements
Plus, it's an animation, which means manually-set speed parameters instead of them naturally falling due to canon gravity

[sharp lichen]

Eh, that’s true

[green pine]

Measure everything.

[sharp lichen]

Here, we have the h and t part of your equation

[tranquil harbor]

My brain is gonna explode just trying to understand what 'everything' means (but I'm not on gravity theory duty so I don't have to)

[green pine]

also make sure you always use the chibi mask and default hair (and clear, horizontal angles) for making pixel measurements with skykids in order to keep things consistent and reliable

[tranquil harbor]

the ponytail?

[green pine]

sadly no, we do not have h from that. It's not a standard skid size nor a good camera angle
And again, the skid is gliding down, and we need to measure a ton of different moving objects as well since skids have abormal properties. As a whole due to their capes and magic, but also for the sake of game design.

[tulip aspen]

no, moth hair, one you start with

[tranquil harbor]

You haven't been here for months but you just jump into the thick of it and start refining processes, you're amazing

[rapid arrow]

Why are we talking about math

[tranquil harbor]

Gravity theory has... some flaws

[green pine]

Because math is great, why else? Gotta do a fair bit of it if you want to measure anything about this world

[frigid tinsel]

math is cool and can be fun, it just wrecked me so hard in high school i opted out of it in college

[sharp lichen]

Is this any good? I’m not sure how else to measure this

[tranquil harbor]

I had some personal issues early on in my school career that had me missing certain subjects. I could recover in others, but I missed some critical math knowledge that I never got help for, and I've been 'bad' at math ever since.

[tranquil harbor]

use the polite 'hands in front of you' stance, your kid stands up straighter

[green pine]

Meanwhile I've done Calc 1-3, Linear Differential Equations, and Linear Algebra (aka matrices) and had fun doing it!
But that's beside the point, it's lore time 👀

[tranquil harbor]

I mean, if we're doing lore with math, it's good to have someone who enjoys it

[green pine]

It's best to have a static reference point, such as you holding still to record a friend flying. Capes and skid magic is still going to throw us off either way though, unfortunately. Try dropping some crabs with a friend or two, and anything else we might be able to make fall from a height

[tranquil harbor]

I'm starting to think maybe those aren't interchangeable /lh

[frigid tinsel]

Baud struggle with Discord video uploading

[foggy lotus]

i can help with the crabs

[sharp lichen]

Correction: skid magic is going to throw us off only if we believe that it'll throw it off.

[tulip aspen]

math is a necessity for me asa welder, pain

luckily i never have to make calculations to the extent y'all are doing, and even if i did, i still/definitely wouldn't want to help

[tranquil harbor]

I'm not against helping to drop crabs. In theory, since I'm on switch, I could help get videos, since I can record up to 30 seconds of footage.

[green pine]

It's pretty self-evident that they have abnormal properties when lit and caped up, beyond just the times when they're gliding. Being completely capeless makes them fall faster than having a cape at all, which can be experienced with a fresh install and skipping all the stars, or by using the capeless glitch (which may or may not still exist)

[sharp lichen]

I’m experiencing contradicting evidence: you’re saying that being capeless makes you fall faster, while Jam says otherwise. I’m not sure what to believe

[frigid tinsel]

Jam is wrong, being capeless makes you fall faster

or better said having a cape gives you some lift/increases your drag(?)

[sharp lichen]

Hmm, that should mean that capes make it less aerodynamic: like how a crumpled up piece of paper falls faster than a normal sheet

[stable veldt]

Sorry i was otw to somewhere. I'll explain where i get the number:

Firsy i use the SFX. While i doubt the accuracy of SFX, it's one of the clues to use since some sounds can be generated with a certain force, therefore knowing their weight-mass.
I use in comparison multiple sounds of construction items in youtube and see how they fall/interact whilst looking at density of the material.

Second failsafe I'd like to use is using density of clay, but this one is trickier since we don't know how thick/hollow the skids are. With it, after hearing multiple things clanging, as well as calculating stone (in this case, i use density of average crustal earth rock) density for the jars, i received at minimum 15 kilos for stone-stone making that clonk sound on jars that thick

At maximum, perhaps 30 kilos, since beyond that there's a chance it might made a heavier clunk and messier grass sound

I might be comitting big stupid though, so if there's a chance/someone point out any failures, do tell

[green pine]

Sounds would likely be one of the much more unreliable ways to determine the weight, as sounds are often exaggerated or otherwise chosen to evoke a specific feel and mood rather than be an accurate depiction of a precise physical object

[stable veldt]

That is true. Hearing the jars alone already noted that it sounds more of a wood-wood crash rather than stone, so if i doubt the material, at the end of the day i used clay density, assuming slids are at least 1/4 clay

[tranquil harbor]

Though, given our limited resources, we gotta work with what we have.

how did I get dragged into gravity theory

[green pine]

And we should work with what is most concrete, clear, and self-evident, as it's be more reliable. Sounds can be good for guiding us into a certain direction, but not itself giving us the numbers. Using the density of irl clay assumes not just that skids are made of clay, but that they are a specific kind of clay without any magic properties (which they do have) and that they are fully solid or hollow with X amount of other substance, it requires accurate volume measurements, and so on.

The more clear-cut something is, with as few interfering variables as possible, the better.

[tranquil harbor]

A'ight, I'm going to bed. If anyone needs help dropping crabs or something, ping/DM me for later

[stable veldt]

I am aware of this. As for now i've calculated with what we have for now. If there's any more uodate in the future that could help more i would not mind suck it up and start from ground 0 if it meant clearer result

[tranquil harbor]

last message, then I'm gone with the wind we can start by increase our test numbers. Or by going over old data and doing some tests again. Get lots of data to compare.

[stable veldt]

Alright. Will be noted and i gtg oof soz

[sharp lichen]

The big thing is: barely anything in Sky lore is concrete, clear, and self-evident. I’d argue that SFX is the most concrete and clear way to determine weight, simply because there’s no other optometrist

[green pine]

Like I said, we have height/length and time, just needs a bunch of data points and some fair judgement calls to record gravity on a multitude of things.

[keen shore]

Taking a short break from the mural doc -

I myself am very skeptical that we can even FIND the gravity, which is why I’m not participating in it. Tons of creatures, including debatably us, have weird gravity surrounding in some form. Krill can fly entirely without wings. We can fly with only a small cape (and maybe not even that, if it’s a light projection) keeping us aloft, and walk and bounce oddly like how humans would on Earth, considering the low gravity all around us. Mantas can pull us along using something akin to gravity. Butterflies can crowd together to do something similar, lifting us up in a way that isn’t explained by simple air currents. The rubble and landscapes around us often float in ways that you would never find on Earth, almost suspended in midair.

I hate to be a downer, but this might be one of the cases where there’s just too many unseen variables to find a conclusion. How do you find a skykid’s mass when you don’t know if they’re performing a minor gravity manipulation to make themselves float or hover better? What evidence do you use to help guess at sky’s baseline gravity - the floating rubble or our walking and jumping patterns? And so on

Even darkstone/light batteries [trying to think of the best term to use, since the first is more common but implies a deep and inherent darkness I’m not sure exists] are known to mess with gravity. They lift and power boats when lit, keeping massive, heavy stone boats like the Ark from sinking, or helping smaller boats fly through the air. Even if the points in the previous post about gravity being weird naturally is debatable, it applies here at the very least

[green pine]

Yup, that's the sad truth of the matter. Gravity is really one of the hardest things for us to measure in this game, if it is even possible. Too many cases of unclear states, inconsistencies, and very obvious manipulations of gravity are abound, like you said. It's kinda one of the core defining features of this world, really.

[keen shore]

Pretty much. It wouldn’t be much easier if we had actual, easily discoverable real world measurements for them, but man it’s extremely difficult to even do the calculations for how to measure a meter in sky. What units are we supposed to use? Crablengths?

[green pine]

Though if there's something that will always be a delightfully tricky but barely-in-reach problem is the written language of sorts in sky (or at least certain bits of art surrounding sky, idr if it's present in-game). You can find a bunch of concept art and videos in this channel's pins, and some of them have written symbols with accompanying text that all match with each other and show a genuine alphabet being present.

There was four images in particular I found back in the day, with the individual letters compiled here

If we can find more of this stuff to piece together the rest of the alphabet, that'd be incredible

[green pine]

We do! I made a bunch of measurements of skykids and elders ages ago! (though you should really only use chibi + default hair for measuring things)
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1AjO_2JGnhIJb93c8Fl66nzdIIRK0nxWO

Sadly my original post never got pinned after all this time since it's still not an official resource from the devs (which is totally understandable), but amazingly people do keep managing to find it every now and then. It's how I got pinged and came in to have a chat, actually
#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[keen shore]

I don’t know if I have the brain cells to help decipher alternate languages, but I am currently gathering all the murals, paintings, and carvings I can find throughout the game. I will check them over for a written system of language if I can see any.

I know we have that, I’m just the kind of boring person who wants a torch from assembly to measure exactly a meter tall or something easy like that - or at least measurements that are verifiable outside of a game award in office. Like, that works if we have nothing else, but it’s barely anything, yknow?

[harsh pecan]

yall are too smart

[sharp lichen]

We're not smart, just dedicated.

[green pine]

yeah, I get what you mean. It's not great, only having chibi skykids as a ruler. If we can find some other, more reliable objects that never change size or deform and that we can carry around to make reliable measurements at various angles, then measure that bad boi and we can get some new rulers!

[sharp lichen]

So, it looks like gravity discussion is not finished yet, or possibly ever. At least we got a new person on the gravity squad- and it’s the last one I’d expect. Tomorrow, we should measure the objects of Sky. And @green pine, what will we need to actually calculate the gravity of Sky? I know that it’s significantly lower than Earth’s but nothing specific

[keen shore]

Hope, faith, and many prayers

[green pine]

Considering just how inconsistent gravity is in the game and how it's constantly ignored or modified by all sorts of things, us trying to find a standard gravity for Sky is probably both impossible and not even a healthy goal to shoot towards. Even if we found a basline gravity, most cases will use some modified gravity instead and make it not really that meaningful.

The best we can do is record the effective gravity of various things like skykids under various conditions (falling, gliding with motion, gliding at a standstil, falling without a cape, etc) or other pertinent objects or creatures. Not to try and find Sky's 'true baseline gravity' since there really isn't one and it would be almost irrelevant anyway, but to find the effective falling acceleration of important things, for if we want to measure huge objects/vertical landscapes or calculate stuff under specific circumstances, etc.

[sharp lichen]

We did some calculations with specifically falling in mind, and got a result… would that be effective gravity?

[green pine]

effective gravity (aka net falling acceleration) is just whatever acceleration they have after gravity, drag, magical shenanigans, and whatever else to yield the overall rate of acceleration skids fall at, as per a = 2h/t²
No fancy bells and whistles, no accounting for density or capes or anything else, just whatever they happen to fall at, that's what net acceleration is.

[stable veldt]

I am back alive, will lurk until asked to say somn

[sharp lichen]

So a wing flap is about 94 inches, and it takes 2.5 seconds to fall down. So, a would equal 188/(2.5)^2, which is 30.25 inches per second, which is 1.71 mph

[hushed steeple]

What is all this wow geez.

Two sides of lore chat. Questioning what amount irl logic can be used to reach intended results and....

Equations

[green pine]

or about 0.77 m/s²

for that particular set of conditions with a typical skykid falling with a cape in (presumably) home isle

[sharp lichen]

Uh, acceleration was never my strong suit.

So what could be done with that?

[green pine]

it's wonky having to be so hyper-specific, but things vary a lot across the game ¯_(ツ)_/¯

not a whole lot can be done with knowing falling acceleration in our case other than using it to record the height of something really tall, as long as there's absolutely nothing that will cause your acceleration to change partway throw or otherwise be different from what you thought it was

[keen shore]

Sorry for the interruption, just wanted to post this before I forgot

Newest Update to Mural Masterlist
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-yA8OdJ2NzwNc8c15sQB3UALYn3psT3c6mWgIV64jFM]
Updates here include:

• addition of elder face carvings in home
• revamp of mural recording system. The doc now includes tags, listed at the very bottom, that you can ctrl+f and search for if you want to find all the murals that - for instance - have spirits in them. Organization categories include but are not limited color, elements depicted, luminance (dim or glowing) and whether the mural is dependent on outside factors to appear. Thank you @tulip aspen for this suggestion, although it took a while to arrive!
• General appearance upgrade in the form of background color change and font change
• Document Outline has been cleaned up to allow efficient movement between realm and seasonal area categories.
• More organized description of each mural
• Retconned mural category with old murals that have since been removed from the game or altered

That’s all I can think of right now. Still needs a few more updates, like adding the symbol pole from cave of prophecy and the masks above each elder’s door, but finally, most of the work is done.

Edit I missed some of the Eden murals in the revamp and will fix that really quickly

[sharp lichen]

Got it! What other tests should we do? There’s no rush, I just really want to see the gravity of the Sky world compared to Earth

[green pine]

Absolute legend. This is great!

[frigid tinsel]

Salem is our mural master

[green pine]

record anything and anything that can fall, outside of animations

[stable veldt]

I should start making the gravity doc too despite things, to archive and for better referencing in the future

But we should find a better name. How about just general science doc? For measurements, acceleration, tests and what we found for now

[sharp lichen]

The only thing that comes to mind is crabs, so we should test crabs more

[stable veldt]

Skids, crabs, darkness particles, and the light buns from grandma

[keen shore]

Update: has been fixed

[slate saffron]

We're gonna krill gravity

[green pine]

Gravity is gone

[keen shore]

Thank you! I really appreciate the compliment, it took tons of work

[slate saffron]

ALSO @sharp lichen you still owe 195^16 candles

[green pine]

Ah yes, 3.37*10^36 or about 337 decillion candles
that's a whole lotta debt

[stable veldt]

Baudshaw can simply go to eden, grab the eden crystal and try to pry all the light off. Ez decillion candle

[frigid tinsel]

worth it for the lore bible.
the price we pay for answers.

[green pine]

I don't think you quite understand just how unimaginably large a decillion is, Tricky

[frigid tinsel]

oh, i do

[keen shore]

If baudshaa converted all of The Light into candles would they be able to pay off their debt yes or no

[green pine]

no

[native shoal]

Something I noticed is that when you get crabbed in wasteland the warm light your sky kid normally emits turns into a cold light, around the same color as spirits

It reverts after a second but I don’t think that’s a bug

[keen shore]

I will record this as soon as I feel up to it to analyze, thanks for the tip-off !

[sharp lichen]

Hey Lego, can you help me understand this equation? I’d assume we’d have almost every one of those variables in the Sky world and we could just solve for g, but now you’re saying it’s impossible? This is difficult

[green pine]

We don't know the mass of skykids, density of the air (which is probably quite low due to out high altitude but really it could be anything), surface area is a tricky calculation so it depends on how it was done, and drag coefficient is a whole 'nother ordeal

[stable veldt]

This also happens when you flap your wings in general, a splitsecond you'll turn cold blue and then back red again

[sharp lichen]

Surface area could be derived from your calculation about Skykids height, couldn’t it? And how do you even calculate drag coefficient

[green pine]

skids emitting cold blue light is usually just an indication of them losing/expending light in general

[stable veldt]

We can kinda get surface area by looking at the bottom of skid (foot view camera), use pixels again to calculate and then get the results

[green pine]

And again, this all becomes irrelevant when gravity is constantly messed with and highly inconsistent in the game, trying to pinpoint a constant gravity would go against the fluctuating nature of it in Sky. It'd be less accurate to the game's world to declare it as some unchanging baseline number.

[sharp lichen]

So, if it’s fluctuating, would it mean that the Sky world isn’t round?

[keen shore]

We can MAYBE say the gravity is a result of the Eden disaster, and that it was more constant and reasonable beforehand, but this creates a whole new host of issues because now you have to rely on spirits for your measurements and they don’t give a whole lot of great information that can be used to calculate things. Given the spirit we see riding around on a manta in citadel, gravity has probably always been weird in some form or another. It’s just part of the world, for whatever reason

[stable veldt]

The reason we can't pinpoint a specific gravity either is because sky has this different wind drafts between worlds, hard to get a consistent clean fall too

[sharp lichen]

So, finding the universal gravity is a futile endeavor that I should abandon?

[green pine]

Unfortunately, yes. Especially since all sorts of creatures and objects have their own gravities in one way or another due to magic influence, with skykids likely being one of them.

[stable veldt]

Universal gravity maybe no, but each map gravity, possible mayhaps

[green pine]

This sums it up quite well.

[stable veldt]

Cheer up, i'm also a bit disheartened with gravity, but now i'm tempted to look at measurements, possibly also tracking down SFX noises n stuff

[sharp lichen]

Well, one explanation could be that the Sky world has a low gravity, and that in each creature exists some gravitational force? I’m not sure

[stable veldt]

I'm also still proud finding that flag measurement the abyss crew used

[green pine]

There's very clearly magic involved that causes all these things to behave strangely. It's one of the core premises of the game, after all.

[keen shore]

Now comes the theorizing as to why gravity is Like that in the first place! As I mentioned earlier, it seems to have been weird for long before the disaster, and might be an inherent part of the world.

Further evidence for this assumption:

• spirit riding manta in citadel, suggesting mantas have had their weird pulling thing, similar to their own gravity almost, for a while now
• the floating islands on prairie have been there for a while, including being shown in prophecy murals. So have the gravity-manipulating boats.
• Orreries in valley’s citadel and coliseum (the golden rings that rotate) were seemingly built to hover that high
• ancestors can and would lift massive, heavy stone pots when better materials to make them lighter were available, not to mention wasteland’s weapons. At the very least, this is evidence of gravity being much less strong on Sky, and at most, evidence of ancestors being capable of slight gravity manipulation as well.
• The and spirit memories

There’s probably a lot more that I’m forgetting, but I think this is enough to prove my point for now

[sharp lichen]

Could this weirdness be due to the shape of the world?

[stable veldt]

The entire land itself is filled with clouds, that alone is not natural since clouds can't really hang that low without turning to fog

[green pine]

Not to mention that it's pretty heavily implied (by some murals, the intro cutscene, game mechanics, themes of an ancient fallen civilization, chirps, specific architectural styles, and so on) that Sky takes place long after Journey (it being something like original civilization before the game Journey -> Journey game -> some civilization far up in the sky -> Sky game), always a great idea to take a look at things in that game as well

[keen shore]

I’m not quite sure. I get the feeling that if it was, the weirdness would be more easily rationalized - for instance, krill that almost definitely have more mass than theearth bound ancestors would not float. It would still be weird, and the gravity would vary a lot, but it would be a place to place variance, not an almost creature to creature variance.

This is all speculation since I’m not currently aware of any irl bodies we’d be able to compare the sky world to to figure out if weird shape = weird gravity, though

[sharp lichen]

So are we finally, FINALLY free from that cursed physics discussions??

[stable veldt]

This is quite a fresh air. Since i first started entering lore it's been a loop of light anatomical question, origins, culture, but rarely touched possible physics, topology, possible weathers and air and stuff

[stable veldt]

Perhaps, but now i'm interested in measurements still

[kindred perch]

Disclaimer: I don't have a really big knowledge of sky lore so these are just what I see in game.

Ok so I have a theory about the calls. Each call has a meaning or use to it.

manta: a manta statue can be used to learn diving (seen with abyss) and the call can be used to call memory mantas ()

jellyfish: jellyfish can repel or time out the rain in forest

default call: the default call is used for the sky kids as their navigation system

These are the ones I can list off from my memory right now

[stable veldt]

crab call: to annoy every new and old skids.

But for real though I expect TGC give usage to these custom calls, example crab calling will instead make crabs follow around you for a while instead of flipping/headbutting

[sharp lichen]

Well, I’m coming with you then. If gravity is described as “ambiguously low and wonky”, it’ll be good to find other things, for example we could theoretically find the height of large structures

[keen shore]

I have been thinking loosely about how calls work recently, but am pretty tired right now so it’s hard to formulate my thoughts correctly. They do seem to allow some level of communication between spirits + light creatures, because in some spirit memories where they get used the creature calls back, which is interesting

[keen shore]

I want to attempt to find spirit heights. Let’s find out how tall the prophecy guide REALLY is

[kindred perch]

There are the little hidden calls as well like the flute/extinguished call and the voice crack call, but I think they're just different forms of the default call

[frigid tinsel]

If you use bird call around birds, the birds chirp back at you. Same with manta calls

[sharp lichen]

We do know that they clearly changed heights between the season art and in game, but we can compare the heights with the other Prophets to see how much the Prophecy Guide has grew

[kindred perch]

I think that's true with every call

[keen shore]

I think they just spawned that height, and the guide in the season art was a decoy to keep us from knowing the truth /j

[frigid tinsel]

Y’all got called out in #sky-memes: #sky-memes message

[keen shore]

I can rest happily that this does not Apply to me :-)

[stable veldt]

Damnit

[kindred perch]

I just say that sky has a slightly lower gravity than earth

[sharp lichen]

I say that Sky has a significantly lower gravity than Earth, to be honest. Everything just seems that way, with so much floating stuff (I do know that magic keeps them afloat, but lower gravity makes levitation easier) and the bounciness of Skykids

[kindred perch]

Random thought: the chibi mask is a mask with a curse on it

[sharp lichen]

What’s so cursed about it? It’s a blessing!

[regal forge]

i just like to think sky kids would be uncomfortably light weight. Like you pick one up and it’s like as heavy as a pillow

[frigid tinsel]

Part of the skykids are hollow theory is that skykids seem less affected by gravity (jumping, sliding upwards) is cos they’re hollow thus have less mass

[sharp lichen]

Is that how gravity is supposed to work? I have no idea

[kindred perch]

Doesn't the light in them keep them afloat?
I know krill fly. They just use darkness instead of light.
Darkness is as strong as light in the sky universe

[stable veldt]

Possible. The diamond part on the mask is lined with red paint
Red means darkness. Doesn't that mean light is stunted by darkness, therefore they became short

[keen shore]

Universal lesson of sky: short people are evil and should not be trusted, ESPECIALLY when they pretend to be tall (king)

[green pine]

As long as the larger body (e.g. a planet) is sufficiently massive enough, your own mass won't significantly impact the acceleration due to gravity you experience. However, things like drag forces will absolutely change stuff depending on your surface area compared to your mass.

[kindred perch]

Sky kids can also fall under the light helps fly theory

[keen shore]

We are fallen stars! It would be neat, if probably impractical, if we had a little gravity manipulation because of that

Chibi compresses themselves too small and creates black hole. Am going to leave everyone with that image as I go to bed

[stable veldt]

They are naturally a blackhole. People will tend go around chibis, if not stay longer

[kindred perch]

Note taken: don't put Chibis in a compressor

[green pine]

you haven't experienced true fear unless you've seen skykids with a mouth

[kindred perch]

I think that the sky kids lift up their mask and have this giant creepy sharp hole for a mouth

[frigid tinsel]

Credit to fish and Vela

[kindred perch]

Yes
Also the krill's expression cracks me up

[night pecan]

hey lore chat, what's your fav place in sky (for lore reasons)

[harsh pecan]

I completely forgot about that….maybe it was better that way

[green pine]

Eden, of course! All sorts of oddities and mysteries and lore tidbits in there, especially from OOB stuff in an older build of the game

[limpid jacinth]

Though again, this assume that the gravity in Sky works similarly to that of earth.... which I thought was part of the underlying question..... ah circles of thought.

[green pine]

That's just a behavior of gravity, forces, and newton's first law
the question is whether or not the vague 'source(s) of gravity' in Sky are massive enough for acceleration due to gravity to be constant regardless of a small entity's mass

[limpid jacinth]

can I just say how happy I am that this discussion is happening. Because I am. I have discussed the concept of trying to measure distances and gravity in Sky with a friend for a while. Yet this is the most thought provoking discussion to date.

[limpid jacinth]

Yeah - I recognised Newtons first law in there. Though it also relies on the concept that mass attracts mass.

[limpid jacinth]

Also I suspect the idea of variation in gravity is more likely. So I guess you are talking about internal to the area you are measuring?

[green pine]

So a possibly completely different set of physical laws being possible, you mean?

[limpid jacinth]

As in - gravity is not consistent across the entire 'world of Sky'.

[limpid jacinth]

It could be. Though that does not appear consistent with the regular patterns of the game mechanics or predictability of how skids respond in game.

[night pecan]

i hc sky kids are HEAVY but because of light/fire magic they're as light as a feather!

[green pine]

same, due to how quickly they fall without a cape, and their hard impact sounds (not the light bonks)

[limpid jacinth]

It is more that we would need to determine if the laws of physics 'as we understand them' are consistent enough to be able to assume similar (or slightly modified) laws.

[night pecan]

skids also canonically don't need capes/cloaks, they're there for aesthetic reasons hence why the little prince scarf n fish cape still work the same way

[harsh pecan]

It makes sense if they are

[limpid jacinth]

Also can someone pin the beginning of the gravity chat in lore? I am having difficulty finding where it began....

[green pine]

The cape is a manifestation of their flight abilities, though its physical form can vary by a lot

[limpid jacinth]

Or at least this current thread of it...

[green pine]

the staff only pin official/early-concept content that's from devs, like interviews

[limpid jacinth]

Hm... that would make it difficult to be able to refer back to key concepts....

[green pine]

you could snag a message link and store it in a private discord server

[limpid jacinth]

is there any way that this group has tried to collect the concepts outside of the server?

[compact shale]

Oh, physics...

🚪 ⬅️ 🥭

[limpid jacinth]

This also assumes that I can find a starting point. 😆 Which tbh, I dont know if I have been able to (Though I looked).

[green pine]

If you have developer mode turned on, you can right click a message and press copy message link
then save it in some notes channel in a private discord server or smth, and you can click the lnik to jump right back to the message

[limpid jacinth]

Also, plz excuse me - I need to go for a while.

[limpid jacinth]

...and there is the first problem... developer mode... I will have to explore more later.

[nimble ingot]

Lemon face Moth is not real, right?

[harsh pecan]

“Lemon face Moth isn’t real, it can’t hurt you”

[night pecan]

i like to hc that skids are blind/can't see very well, hence why honking shows lit up players/friends and deep calling (a form of echolocation) on top of skids touching ANY wall or object they're close enough to reach

[nimble ingot]

While the game is open to interpretation, the theory of a blind skykid is troublesome.

They can see colour (which they can choose for their capes), they can see distant objects even if they are silent and do not emit or reflect light.
While flying, they can pull off manoeuvres that would be difficult to do while blinded.

While skykids are likely night blind (the darkness in some realms are very strong and even with candle light is hard to see).
They are likely able to see.

The touching walls feature can be the skykids interacting with the environment, an action that makes the character more reactive.

Take Lara Croft for example, in some games, she would also reach out to touch walls if you are walking near them. This especially happens when she is hurt or scared.
She is surely not blind, but that action helps make the character look aware of her surroundings.

Had either character not do that, the character would feel artificial and unresponsive to the envirnment.

[compact shale]

Well, children/toddlers are curious and like to feel stuff with all their senses (luckily, skykids don't have mouths to put unfortunate things in) so...

[magic hemlock]

They might have mouths but never show/use them.

[compact shale]

I mean if they really don't have mouths that would be good because otherwise this could happen

[nimble ingot]

yikes.

At least we can enjoy a meal at Granny's, have tea and even enjoy some cake.

While skykids do not need to eat (or the game does not need to have a survival mechanic for it), they can eat and drink if they so desire.

[compact shale]

Burning = eating?

[magic hemlock]

Guess we'll just have to wait to see if they ever have a cutscene in something to see if they actually "eat" anything? Like show the act of eating something.
Because there are ways of doing that without showing a mouth.

[nimble ingot]

Touché

[compact shale]

You're right. There are.

For example, we could put the food in through our eyes.

[magic hemlock]

Lol That image is slightly disturbing but I love it

[quick terrace]

some foods would be easier to consume, like peas

[compact shale]

And then when it comes in contact with our intenral light it incinerates instantly

[trim yoke]

Just a comparison to teh mountains in Journey and Sky, maybe Journey was Sky's prequel? 🤔

[compact shale]

In a spiritual sense, yes. Sky was also originally going to have cosmetics taken straight from Journey.

Unfortunately TGC doesn't own Journey's copyright anymore so a SkyxJourney collab will be... harder than usual

[soft timber]

Sadness

[stable veldt]

Anyone got that link regarding skid's material doc? I need it to link in the general sky-ence doc

[south mortar]

thats so cursed

[stable veldt]

yes

[frigid tinsel]

I haven’t shared it cos it’s in a state of very unfinished

[south mortar]

where is mods

[formal skiff]

This-
Amazing-

Relax Jam! /lh
They probably haven’t seen it yet. If they kept a close and constant watch on lorechat they’d lose so much sanity that they wouldn’t be able to work on Sky or have lives
I’m sure they’ll pin it when they see all this, no need to worry

[carmine garnet]

Lol. Yep their sanity would be gone if they stayed in here too long

[compact shale]

Wooly manta is probably a sanity compensation pet but I'm not sure how well it works

[rigid mural]

Mods knowing what wooly manta is made me panic a bit lmaooo

[formal skiff]

Everyone deserves to know what wooly mantas are

[compact shale]

Because it isn't lore?

[rigid mural]

Yeah
Though I love drawing wooly mantas tbh so...

On the topic of eating, we do say a flame consumes things, so...

[stable veldt]

Here's today's wooly manta from me

[formal skiff]

WE’RE LIGHTING WOOLY MANTAS ON FIRE???? NO!!!

[compact shale]

Well, I have a feeling that the mods allow it because they know it restores our sanity

[formal skiff]

Not YET

[frigid tinsel]

Wooly manta lore in our hearts

[rigid mural]

I keep on seeing doodles I forgot I drew

And @compact shale honestly yeah the point of wooly manta is to be cute and distract from unsavory topics so...

[frigid tinsel]

Blasphemy

[formal skiff]

Nooooo

[stable veldt]

tbh, I don't want to eat burnt wool

[undone trench]

At least it's not the krill resistance test Yet

[frigid tinsel]

Wooly mantas so floofy they just bounce off krill unharmed

[compact shale]

it's implied that woolie is more likely to survive THAT

[formal skiff]

Nom nom gotta go eat breakfast and then do work, bye for now lorechat

[rigid mural]

Thinking about how dismiss's name, saluting protector, implies they at least have some combat training. And the TS hints describe them as pretty nice. I bet they're a powerhouse.

[compact shale]

WAKING UP!
KISSING MY WOOLY MANTAS GOODBYE!
GOING TO PATROL!
BEATING RAIDERS TO THE GROUND!
GOING HOME!
KISSING MY WOOLY MANTAS HELLO!!!

[stable veldt]

Any chance they might be the equivalent of the troop's orchestra? Even military has its own marching band, in this case troops has their own mascot/performers. Probably that's why it's also called season of gratitude, they seen a lot of stuff in the battlefield

[rigid mural]

Noteworthy that their color palette is that of candles (red, white and gold) and that their bells can be heard when you receive an IAP you bought/got gifted, so maybe they celebrated the Light.

[compact shale]

How do you know it's their bells specifically

[rigid mural]

I could bother the few vets I know to record themselves ringing the bells they got & compare that to vid of me buying the next season pass, so for now my source is "trust me on this".

Unless someone here intends to buy a pack or a days of bloom IAP and record themselves doing so. I know there's likely a few folks here who got bells too.

[compact shale]

I have a smol bell

[boreal nebula]

Have you used MS Paint too?

I don't mind if you do, the pixels make it extra tasty crisp for these gems made by Vela too (wish I knew how to replicate that effect on Sketchbook by Autodesk ||same devekoppers of AutoCAD, if anyone is interested||

[rigid mural]

That will do !

Speaking of extra crispy art, illustrating why I think sky kids probably feel lonely (imagine living in the ruins of a civilization you can feel at your fingertips but never reach)

[formal skiff]

aahhhh so saaadd

[stable veldt]

I'm surprised you recognize those crisp lines and where they came from.
In sketchbook, just look for like those non-alias brushes

[formal skiff]

wdym non-alias?

[stable veldt]

I'm dumb. Anti-alias is where you can get those non-pixelated brush/smooth lines. Alias brush is like those crispy lines in ms paint

(But ngl painting in ms paint is easy if you know how)

[compact shale]

I remember when I was bored and I had just gotten a crusty old drawing tablet so I plugged it into my laptop and made some stuff in MS Paint

MS Paint I love you but why you no got layers gosh darn it

[stable veldt]

What if i tell you I know how to layer and paint in ms paint

[compact shale]

the what

[boreal nebula]

Non alias? Anti alias?

I'm not this fluent in english, it seems😅

[formal skiff]

i'm also confused dw teb

[rigid mural]

Not sure if it's too horrible but piggyback's memory features refusing voyager... with dark plants sprouting from them.

And I like the headcanon that while ancestors probably died where you found them, their memory might instead be of the area instead of their last moments so...

Maybe this spirit wanted to look at these murals one last time.

[stable veldt]

These tech stuff

[compact shale]

"Until the end, Daleth..."

[boreal nebula]

Thanks for the clarification. So now I know with/without antialias beside the difference between vector and bitmap

[rigid mural]

Idc if they can't hug us yet, that's in my fanon. If grandma and the lightseekers can hug us...

[formal skiff]

i love it and yes i think we can hug them! at least we SHOULD be able to bc it's so wholesome and sweet.

[lofty void]

we can also hug the qgs

[compact shale]

We can't hug too hard.

[sharp lichen]

Chat has been krilled!

[shut trellis]

oh yeah chat got krilled was a thing

[pastel brook]

🛏️

[formal skiff]

it's 12:36 PM here, i'll be ok

[shut trellis]

we have the same timezone

[formal skiff]

all we gotta do is bring up physics and we'll unkrill it haha

[shut trellis]

fr sky physics are crazy

[carmine garnet]

So i wanna make up a fan season, specifical taking place before the fall of eden and the kingdom and we slowly get to see the fall and how it happens

[green pine]

where did you get that info from? I don't remember Journey's copyright ever getting sold off, and after some quick searches I can't find anything about it online. I'm pretty sure TGC still owns it. Heck, they still even have it on their website, worded in a way that heavily implies they still have full ownership. https://thatgamecompany.com/journey/

[frigid tinsel]

iirc Sony purchased the rights to the game before or after it was made to be PlayStation exclusive. At some point it was ported to PC but Sony still owns the copyright.
I can’t pull up any links rn but there’s quite floating around on the discord from devs regarding Sky as a “spiritual successor” to Journey, not a direct sequel

[green pine]

Ah, that makes more sense. TGC still has some amount of rights to it though, it's just not clear to what extent.

[hushed steeple]

Odd how it kinda spawned an entire new genre.

[lofty void]

HELLO LORE CHAT!!! HOW WE DOIN TODAY :DDD

[sharp lichen]

NOT GOOD D:::

[green pine]

doin' alright

[sharp lichen]

Not good specifically because I realized that I talked about physics for 4 days

At least something good came out of it: legokidlogan came back, after a gigantic hiatus

[green pine]

heck yeah

[undone trench]

I was doing my ||eden|| runs to get resizes and, I noticed that in ||orbit|| the elders seem to be shorter than they are in the cutscenes, so maybe they get scaled down a bit to fit there, or when we see the cutscenes they appear to be or are taller there than they actually are,

[kind musk]

Just as reminder, you can freely talk about spoilers such as Eden and Office here!

[undone trench]

Oh-

[sharp lichen]

It's called lore-discussion-SPOILERS for a reason

[green pine]

They stay the same between their in-world OOB models and their cutscene models (since their OOB models are used to render the cutscene), but yes, some of them are a different size between their initial appearance and when they show up in the tower mural cutscene with all of them together

[kind musk]

Well as personal opinion, I think that they're likely "deities" so they can adopt the shape they wish (?

[carmine garnet]

Their bodies might be more light based then ours?

[nimble ingot]

When TGC made Journey for the playstation, Sony has the rights to the character (wayfarer character).
While the model was once added to the game (a long time ago, before the global release), it did not last long and the character was removed.

[green pine]

they seem to be just old, wise, large, and magically gifted (but otherwise normal) like their title implies, as opposed to being deities.

[kind musk]

Maybe, but we also see murals of spirits worshipping them, and as they're "stars that fell" we're surely seeing them in a "debilitated" shape. Also the valley twins don't look old like the rest imo

[green pine]

It's a possibility for sure

[kind musk]

Everything is possible D:

[lofty void]

Ayy welcome back

[green pine]

As for the Sky being a sequel thing, it's so heavily implied that I'd feel like it's canon but just not possible to call officially irl due to legal reasons
Like what I mentioned in here, though I'm pretty sure there's been much more in-depth examinations of this in the past: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[kind musk]

Actually that was confirmed to not be true (iirc), because ThatGameCompany no longer has the rights of Journey and they belong to.. Annapurna or Sony, I don't remember

[green pine]

I'd feel like it's canon but just not possible to call officially irl due to legal reasons

[kind musk]

Oh sorry

[hushed steeple]

They try to hint as hard as possible without actually saying it. They are still in love with their child.

But so is giant squid.

[formal skiff]

idk... they are very busy

yeah it's super great, and TYSM SALEM

[sullen wagon]

What if our "honks" are actually the screaming of every single wl we've get, as they were okay just sitting or standing in those places?
What if krills are actually protectors of the Light that are trying to free the wl that we trapped inside of a body instead of being just happy wherever they wanted?
What if we are actually the bad guys and we never noticed?
What if the mantas kidnap us because they know in the deep doen that they're helping the evil?
What if we can cook crabs cuz we indeed eat them in a way to just harm and defend the darkness?
What if...?
Keep tuned for more theories <3

[formal skiff]

i love it

[pastel brook]

Robots have feelings too!

[sharp lichen]

You wish they did!

[pastel brook]

Psh, I'm WAY cooler than those mods!

Do you think bots can think?

[formal skiff]

wow someone's talkative

[lofty void]

shut up bot

[formal skiff]

i think it's just trying to unkrill the chat

[native shoal]

[tranquil harbor]

I don't have any theories right now. It's Sunday and I told my friend I'd wait to go to eden so we could go together.

Wait, there was this theory that the permanent size potion industry was a scam

[flint canyon]

I had mine, grew 1/4 of a head taller, so maybe

[tranquil harbor]

Sky kids only really use them to become tall and big because chibi masks exist for the shorty squadron, and yet they always make us tiny (We need the opposite of a chibi mask. a tall mask)

[flint canyon]

I was hoping to become shorter

[rigid mural]

yeah to get a thing pinned, #contact-the-mods sounds like the best option

[green pine]

we all know you're secretly controlled by the mods, you can't escape me

[flint canyon]

Also why are there no krill (dwagons) around eden? Are the prickly rocks also dangerous to them?

[tranquil harbor]

They're around, just not in the high wind areas

Although, if u mean the death zone, then if there were also krill there, there would be violence

[green pine]

After all, getting pelted by giant crystals moving at high speeds would be dangerous to Krill as well, just by sheer physical impact

[flint canyon]

Can the krill be purified/killed (from a lore perspective)

[tranquil harbor]

I don't think we have enough evidence to say just yet

[flint canyon]

I know the krill don’t like the light whales and stingrays

[tranquil harbor]

or us

[rigid mural]

Krill not being in the point of no return might be because it would make the level way too difficult since the rock rains are way more violent here than in the earlier parts of eden

[tranquil harbor]

Imagine getting to the big rock rain and not being able to make progress because the krill is just bouncing you around like a rag doll

[flint canyon]

The ones early on are fine, I actually find the white ones the worst

[carmine garnet]

Yeah, the most dangerous part about eden are the high winds and the red crystals

[flint canyon]

Also isn’t eden just a big factory? (Early stages). WAIT @tulip aspen eden might be where the resize options are made

[tranquil harbor]

I was the one who mentioned resize potions

[carmine garnet]

I feel like part of Eden was the kingdom at one point, but yeah if magic was there then yeah

[flint canyon]

Maybe the spirits tried to make their own light/children of light? And the dragons were failed versions of them trying to make the whales/stingrays

[rigid mural]

hey lore chat, catch

[tranquil harbor]

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas

[rigid mural]

We do wade through pipes and all, so likely ! my theory is that it was all to power a giant ark as seen in the concept art.

[carmine garnet]

Just some thoughts?
If their was a fan season with the idea of looking back to the fall of the kingdom.
would the portal to enter this season would be in the eden door? or should it be elsewhere?
What would the environments look like before the fall of the kingdom? like the golden wasteland or what were the ruins in the hidden forest?

[hushed steeple]

I think they are just like light creatures, I mean like different animal, if they were created by the spirit I will suppose that the mantas too

[tranquil harbor]

It'd probs be best for it to be at the top floor of the vault, before you enter eden. It could be a 'hidden archive' of sorts, or a dusty old attic type deal

[hushed steeple]

Yep, It would look like the top of the vault maybe like a temple cuz you can see statues like the one who is in home

[carmine garnet]

Maybe just in the vault then? maybe behide a door that takes you to the area? Or sense this fan season is so lore heavy it needs to be like up at the end of a level?

[tranquil harbor]

Just because the Vault is a place of knowledge, so it'd make sense to have 'the knowledge of how something was before' have its portal there. Depending on what you want, it could even be actual time travel because your kid got ahold of something they weren't supposed to have (sealed away within some room in the vault)

[carmine garnet]

That could work. and makes sense. Maybe after you find this object, like opening it or starting the season, the portal could go into the begining of the vault, sense their is still alot of space in there.

[tranquil harbor]

or straight up plop it down in home. Possibly in front of eden's door. The object could be left near it.

Because your kid already has the item, they might have taken it home with them, is the idea

[hushed steeple]

Or you revive the spirit’s memory but you see what they saw

[tranquil harbor]

I don't see why the item can't be plopped down into home like a quest guide.

[carmine garnet]

I like the home idea, cause i was playing around with the idea of a different home based for the pass, with different portals mirroring the areas

[tranquil harbor]

Make the players go up to top of vault the first time to obtain -item-. Experience first quest. Child can now use the item at home to swap between home spaces (because they took it)

[hushed steeple]

I like the idea, I want it, I NEED IT NOW

[carmine garnet]

So idea. you have to at least go to the top of a vault maybe to find a certain crystal to power this statue which will take you to this new home area.

[tranquil harbor]

tbh now I'm just thinking of a scenario where the kid completes the final quest, then wakes up in the place they found the crystal, the vault elder/a vault spirit looking down at them and scolding them for falling asleep there. It's not confirmed if the child was dreaming or not

[hushed steeple]

Or the season guide could be the eden ancient (?

[carmine garnet]

I'm not sure who the spirit guild will be.
I know one of the main character will be 'the king' and the birth of the sky kids. as the season will see the begaining of the prince and the kingdom, him becoming the king and then to the corrupt king and the fall of eden

[tranquil harbor]

(they probably weren't. But the spirits probably don't want them to know that, who knows)

[carmine garnet]

I will muddle some of the waters with the prince/king, (is the prince the little light we meet in eden, is it ourselves, who knows)

would/should the elders be around in this home based? sense i'm imagining this home base is part of eden from the past?

[hushed steeple]

I think not only one person has the fault, I think all the elders mess it up

[hushed steeple]

If u remember the first “opening” someone tell u “if only they listened to me” o something like that, I think this person is the eden elder

[frigid tinsel]

in a way, I agree that the king makes an easy scapegoat. they didn't run the kingdom alone – there were the Elders too who possibly turned away from Megabird (except Dawn, hence why the other Elders disliked them). I don't really see the king as the villain versus the good of the light but as caught in the usage of darkstone tech. they likely started as good. I often say the king's crown corrupted their mind, but power could've warped the Elders' minds too. in fact, in my ficverse, when the Elders united to turn against the king, it's because they saw the king as too powerful. they all had their individual reasons for turning against the king, but it wasn't all for the Light's sake.

they're all at fault for the fall of the kingdom. The Elders are just alive to relent.

[carmine garnet]

My idea is that the king lost his mind due to the courrpt and may have split about himself and eden to save the other realms

[hushed steeple]

Wait, wait, I’m new, so can you explain me about the megabird, the corrupted crown, and why other elders hate dawn elder?

[carmine garnet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dNShWJ0jiY (heres a link to the opening a bit)

[hushed steeple]

Thanks that’s what I’m talking about, I hope u get it

[flint canyon]

I never got that

[carmine garnet]

Yeah, it seems like their was someone that look after them, their the megabird or some sort of voice with an elder? again i do think the king and the elders are connected in a way, tho i think the king was the last to fall

[frigid tinsel]

king's crown of darkstone corrupting them: #lore-discussion-spoilers message
Megabird: #lore-discussion-spoilers message
characterization of Dawn Elder during concept development:

[flint canyon]

Obi-wan and dumbledore

[carmine garnet]

ok that is interest!. and makes alot of sense with the concept art for the prince/king.
also note that the figure in the kings crown in the second picture. what if the prince never grew up like we thought but was force to poilent the other crown and the body to become 'the king?'

[hushed steeple]

Thanks a lotttt

[carmine garnet]

So from what i'm seeing for this, the elders would come down before the prince

[hushed steeple]

Okay okay now I know more, so in that case the voice is the Dawn elder

And the big crystal at the eden is the king, and we die and reborn every time cuz we never reach the crystal and give them our light

Did you hear that boom? It was my mind exploiting

[carmine garnet]

so idea for the lore. maybe we see the prince coming down and just kind of exploring, like a normal sky child? other spirits walking around, a thriving kingdom.
Then when darkness appear again this time threatening their new home, they opt to give the prince a new body, this one of the king.
Of course this allows the corrupt king to happen, and maybe the little light from the prince inside is force to seal and destory eden to keep the others safe?

thoughts?

[hushed steeple]

First we need to know where’s the prince/king and if he can reborn

[frigid tinsel]

they "aren't around to be saved anymore"

[carmine garnet]

Maybe idea that he was fragmented and little parts of his soul are in every skychild

[compact shale]

That's certainly one of the hypotheses

[pastel brook]

[formal skiff]

Beautiful

[tranquil harbor]

Skybot is cranky it's not getting attention

[formal skiff]

I’ve been there

[white dagger]

pssssst
what's the thing at the top of the gate? reminds me of concept forest's mask

[sharp latch]

Oh my gosh I just did the last quest

[formal skiff]

Emotions amirite

[carmine garnet]

How many spirits would be in this fake season cosnsillation?

[frigid tinsel]

yup, that's concept Teth/Forest Elder's mask

[formal skiff]

Wait is that concept art? Is THAT why you joke about Teth being a furry??

Everything makes sense now

[white dagger]

mmmmmmm
this is why im completing her cons
60 heart teal cape tho

[carmine garnet]

So 5 spirits? what about the king? would we just follow him?

I imagne the prince is like most sky children, would 100% faceplant the first time he tried to fly

[tranquil harbor]

bing bing bing bing bing bing Into walls like a ping pong ball

[carmine garnet]

oh 100%, gets turned around so much lol

maybe the elders watching as the prince try to fly, as they shake their heads

i know the prince has the mask, but ideas for his cape and hair? something people would want to try to work and get

what would be some interesting cosmentics and other stuff that were once in eden?

[sharp lichen]

I’d assume the Prince/King would be very Moth-like, so I’d imagine a brown cape. We don’t see any Eden cosmetics, however, and the Prince/King likely doesn’t come from Isle.

[carmine garnet]

maybe a 2 capes? like one when he first appear (like our brown cape) but it changes soon, like he picks it up and tried to fly

[sharp lichen]

Wait, are you designing a season around the Prince/King?

[carmine garnet]

yeah, it basically a big past/lore season, with our little moth going back in time into eden and seeing the rise of the kingdom and structuors before its fall to the darkness.

of at least thats my goal

[formal skiff]

that sounds cool

[compact shale]

Woo, that's a lot of lore to fit into a season

Good luck!

[carmine garnet]

yeah, i feel like thats why it would have to have a different home base, and all the portals would switch to the area before the fall of the kingdom

[sharp lichen]

I have my other ideas of a lore-based season, but anyways: Do you have any plans for the seasonal area?

[carmine garnet]

Do you mean the other areas? Like the abyss area and the hidden village?

[sharp lichen]

Yeah, each season introduces a new area that fits with the theme of the season

[carmine garnet]

Ok give me a second: I need to gather my thoughts. I know season of abyss around will actually be mechanical and above the water (with the nature water and wild life you can explore underneath)

[tranquil harbor]

you'd literally get to explore undestroyed eden

[native shoal]

I wish to see that

Seeing everything in its prime would be great

[boreal nebula]

I noticed this how the Boutswain mask and Cannoreer "tattoos" are quite separate from the surface, at least the diamond on the fronthead is another material somewhat added over the stone maSk

[carmine garnet]

Ok so here it goes:
Isle of dawn : Green, full of life and flowers but very big (think of the Nintendo trailer for sky). With many small camps and much more clouds and manta movers.
Cave of prophecy: I’m not sure.
Daylight prairie: we see how this moth live, trying to keep as light and as little stone off the land as possible. With the temples and such being in tact.
Bird rest: the towers are in tach and we get to see people using them to communicate and talk to mantas.
Sanctuary island: again it’s an escape, a island overgrown and Uneffected by buildings, but we get to see a pirate crew.

Hidden forest: no ruins, we get see to see people navigate the forest, trying to chase away being of darkness. Like their are steps up to the temple.
Treehouse : (I’m unsure about this one)

Valley of Triumph: again no ruins but we also get to see much more structures. Buildings were people would watch the races, as well as the competition that’s happen.
Hidden village: this is where people in this area live; running small businesses and such much think more like a small town (so very few people know about it).

Golden wasteland : Oh boy! This one would be massively different, I think it’s the closest to Eden. And would be more marsh then the others?
Treasure island - again technically a over surface while wildlife underneath.
Forgotten ark: not forgotten anymore. Many more boats and this is more like a group of people living on the boats, (like boat living)

Got nothing on the vault of knowledge

[boreal nebula]

What is this? Where?

[frigid tinsel]

Prob just how that textures are rendered

[tranquil harbor]

honestly I don't think some of these areas would be good for 'the past'. The forgotten ark, for example. It's literally a crash site. No one lived there because it was an accident

[sharp lichen]

Wow, this is like an entirely new game’s worth of content

[tranquil harbor]

Either the tattoos are a rendering thing or the ancestors had 'sticky' jewelry like we do

[boreal nebula]

Id say that is the case of tattooes, but the fronthead diamond looks well crafted (not separated from mask plus not getting the same light reflection as the stone mask)

[carmine garnet]

Ok. So maybe we can see the ark and other boats that are crashed in that area in other areas of the game?

Like maybe it’s one of the boats we can ride on? Or maybe the big boat has a crew and some traveling merchants on it

[tranquil harbor]

Maybe they're building it at the time? Tbh you don't need to do every little area

[carmine garnet]

Ooo that could be interesting.

[carmine garnet]

Yeah. And that’s not including Eden and the castle

Eden and the castle are connected to the home area you end up in for the new season

[sharp lichen]

This is like a whole new game!

[carmine garnet]

It would have to be. But I think it would be interesting lore wise. But would be a pain to make lol 😁

Hense why it would be a fun idea to think about.

[icy pewter]

Upcoming concept art thread from a TGC intern during sky’s early development days! https://twitter.com/purplealmonds/status/1503106890758205442?s=21

[carmine garnet]

Yesss that’s amazing

[formal skiff]

that is so beautiful

[raw crypt]

I saw those on tumblr earlier! They’re so cool, the spiral diamond pattern is rlly interesting

[carmine garnet]

I know the diamonds and triangles seemed to be most common shape/pattern for the sky world

I do like that spiral diamond pattern

[harsh pecan]

the art is so good

[carmine garnet]

Here some of the concept for the sky kids

[compact shale]

Imagine if we were still named "Youhere"

[carmine garnet]

I mean their were expecting people to name themselves so it’s pretty accurate.

[compact shale]

imagine if our species was named "Youheres"

[carmine garnet]

Lol I doubt that but it’s a funny idea

[formal skiff]

gonna start calling skids youheres

[rigid mural]

first and last look like GW, first one has isle vibes

[compact shale]

does the first one look like GW or vibe like isle?

[formal skiff]

hm more gw because of the dark green background

[carmine garnet]

What should the golden wasteland be before the fall of Eden?

[compact shale]

Golden obvs

Golden Capital???

[frigid tinsel]

There’s a quip that Golden Wasteland & Valley of Triumph used to be “Golden Valley.”

[tranquil harbor]

I like that the odd naming convention on the kids implies they are nicknames. Which, when you have things like 'Abyss Guide' and 'Bearhug Hermit', implies these weird names are what are kids give these people. "You taught me how to point, that's your name now"

[carmine garnet]

Yessss. I love all the weird names.

[compact shale]

Hmmm myessss

though I think the names sound a lot more formal

I'm sure if we could, Botanist would be the new "eMo Rain" if we didn't already have a friend named that lol

[carmine garnet]

I want a lot of spirits to still be around in the past for the season concept

[tranquil harbor]

I think the kids don't bother to learn the ancestors' names and just kinda call it like they see 'em, but to the kids, this is a 'fun nickname'. Like many other areas, I don't think the kids understand the point of a nickname tbh

[compact shale]

sjfdfdshfsdhfds

"No name, only ascend"

[tranquil harbor]

Kids: -threateningly points candle at spirit- 'ascend'

[compact shale]

there was a concept where the spirit purification process looked a lot more like ritual arson

[carmine garnet]

I just realized if spirits weren’t spirits, our little moffs would 100% ‘accidentally’ be setting close on fire

[tranquil harbor]

If the spirits aren't actually 'trapped' in a spot and are actively going through the activity our kids follow them from, (which, I'm not saying is the case, don't debunk that) then it gives the hilarious image of them fleeing from our kid and just trying to get on with their day as they're chased with a candle.
"Kid I am busy"
"ASCEND"

[compact shale]

My headcanon about seasonal quests is that by learning emotes from the spirits, skykids gradually learned the concept of empathy, and they eventually realized that they don't have to hold spirits at candlepoint to ascend them (apparently it's hard because it usually results in the spirit running around and trying to punch the skykid except they're incorporeal so they can't) and even though the empathetic method is less efficient, it is also less violent

[tranquil harbor]

I wonder if the spirits think the sky kids are cute. Or if like, they're unsettling to them, with their quiet and their honking

[keen shore]

They’re like spiders: a mixture of cute (small, adorable) and scary (might be leaning towards uncanny valley for ancestors)

[compact shale]

I have a headcanon that skykids aren't just walking winged lights because a sentient eye-burning winged light approaching an ancestor is like a biblically accurate angel approaching a person

[frigid tinsel]

Is this not what actually happens djfnfjcjnc

[tranquil harbor]

An angel falls from the heavens and waves back at you, before sending you to heaven (by magic, not scary body horror)

Also I love you Vela

[compact shale]

Anxious Angler: D-d-don't you think... th-th-this is a b-bit... mu-much?

[tranquil harbor]

They just want to help

[keen shore]

Spirit with social anxiety just gives up and goes through Eden themselves so they won’t be followed around by children constantly

[tranquil harbor]

and then they land on the daily quest list

Real talk, lore chat loves to ignore some things r just mechanics and try to add importance to them, any excuses for daily quests?

[raw crypt]

traveling spirits as a concept can be sooo funny

its like an evil version of the smash invitation

while its nice to meet the kids at home and hang out, a lot of ts hints talking abt being excited, i imagine all spirits dread the reckoning that is the first hour

[compact shale]

Juggler's Tragedy:

It was midnight. I was sleeping with my favorite frog plushie. Suddenly, the Office staff broke into my home.

"QUICK GET DRESSED YOU'RE THE TS GET OUT OUT OUT!!" they hollered.

What are these idiots doing here... I was hoping the sword pant's massive cost would excuse me from attending again, but it seems to be the opposite...

"N-now d-dooooon't touch me! I'm just a law-abiding ancestor who's trying to sleep!" I tried to reason.

"NOT TODAY! YOU'RE THE TS!!!"

"B-but... n-no one will buy my cosmetics anyways... sword pants... remember...?"

"WE HAVE INFINITE CANDLES FOR THEM! NOW GO GET DRESSED!!"

"P-please... no!!"

One of the staff members pinched me in the neck to knock me out, and next thing I know I'm here... I feel sorry for you all...

[rigid mural]

the sequel:

[keen shore]

Crying at the skykids’ massive steps

[tranquil harbor]

At some point I acted as krill bait while doing that. Crab dad was worse. I just started going 'shoot me' so I could get on with my quest

[formal skiff]

wheeze
all of these scenarios are so funny heellllppppp

[compact shale]

Angler: Uhhhhh... d-d-don't you think this is... uhhh... uhh...
*Angler is sweating hard enough to hear
Cannoneer: *points harpoon at the skykid herd Get the (bleep) away from my friend or else.

[tranquil harbor]

They start chasing cannoneer

[rigid mural]

i like to imagine angler is actually pretty strong and able to defend themselves hauling fish around, they just are very polite and hesitant to use force
fools fear the cannoneer more, yet they crumble to dust at sea
the wise fears angler when they had enough

[compact shale]

TGC right outside kreb cave
TGC OPEN UP!!!
After inspecting the kreb cave, they came upon a large pile of krebs. They dug into the pile and ended up finding Respectful Pianist.
Crab Walker will be put on trial after Respectful Pianist finishes their Traveling Spirit time. For now, Crab Walker will be chained to the Home Space bell as a method of public shaming.

(during the crab and duck fiasco)

[rigid mural]

crab walker was just excited, leave them alone !

[tranquil harbor]

Was there a glitch where they showed up over the other TS?

[keen shore]

who would win. crab horde (crab walker) or manta horde (light whisperer)

[rigid mural]

neither, they are friends

[compact shale]

Skykid hoarde

[tranquil harbor]

At the end of the day, they all ascend, and the last standing is the child

[compact shale]

The 4th quest made me think that Angler is actually passive-aggressive

[keen shore]

one spirit gets summoned as a ts and instead of being peaceful and calm they just start punching every child that comes near out of spite

[rigid mural]

wym ?

[compact shale]

They can't punch us, they're incorporeal!

[hushed steeple]

Oop. Sorry. Left is Abzu easter egg, hidden in the background of one area. Right is journey mountain.

[rigid mural]

crab whisperer with my candles tbh, and that call... my poor ears (crab whisperer ily but why)

[compact shale]

I meant that moment where in the cutscene

[rigid mural]

i'd laugh at my friends doing an L without it being agressive

[keen shore]

If you mess with angler they put you in the soup

[compact shale]

Idk i was making it edgier because they pirate and they don't give a frick

[tranquil harbor]

I wonder why the TS are 'excited' to see our kids. Are they being shady car salesmen, who know we'll buy their stuff? Or do they just genuinely like the sky kids? I know there are memes about the kids piling on and literally stealing the clothes off their back, but it can't really be like that...

[rigid mural]

i hope we get more chaotic/evil spirits like the abyss crew in the future

[compact shale]

they despair that they cannot actually punch us

[keen shore]

Since we can high five and hug spirits I think that they could punch us if they wanted

[compact shale]

for goodness sake do I want to argue about corporeability rules

edit: we're probably barely touching which is why it works, but we can't go too ham or else we fall over

[rigid mural]

OH OH I HAVE A HEADCANON ON WHAT THE SPIRITS ACTUALLY DO
You know how your candles disintegrates into light, and the spirit mirrors your action ? What if they just used the light we gift them to make those cosmetics, or teach us to make them ?
Would be cute to have juggler sit 8 sky kids around the edge of the pool to teach them all how to make their haircut.

[compact shale]

I question whether TS are actually canon

but this convo is cute

[rigid mural]

also i totally see ts being excited to meet sky kids (even grouch), imagine skykids messing up the juggle emote at first. must have been entertaining for juggler

[keen shore]

wouldn’t punching work the same way though because their hand would barely touch us? or would fhe entire body need to be corporeal for the momentum to work

[compact shale]

It's entertaining until they drop a firework ball and blow something up

[tranquil harbor]

I'm sure a spirit like juggler would enjoy teaching a bunch of kids his emote. Lots of people get joy from handing down their craft to people who are eager to learn. And kids are sponges

[compact shale]

They could make the movement of punching us, but we wouldn't feel it enough for it to be considered effective

[keen shore]

in hindsight teaching us how to make small fireballs to toss around may not have been the greatest or safest idea

[tranquil harbor]

Why are we talking about punching children though

Hey, at least we're fire proof

[formal skiff]

the worst that happens is they screw up someone's body and they have to go thru eden and get reborn lol

[compact shale]

Don't worry we're fireproof

home might not be tho

[tranquil harbor]

Home is mostly made out of stone and water. The grass though... Or our pet fish

[compact shale]

Juggler: Why are you always being told to touch grass?

[keen shore]

forest raining all the time is not a geographical feature or a result of pollution, but a preventative measure against our arson techniques

[compact shale]

there's an actual theory that's like that

that Forest was gifted with the blue light of water to prevent something about forest fires

[frigid tinsel]

That’s what I been saying for so long, our cosmetics are made of light, we can manipulate light to a degree, surely the spirits are showing us how to make the stuff?

[tranquil harbor]

Do the sky kids consider the home koi to be pets?

[keen shore]

I wonder if blue light gives you the power to manipulate water outright or if it just purifies the water? If it’s the second, does that mean it stopped working in forest altogether? (I mean, probably, we don’t see it anywhere there and the elder that would have utilized it is … somewhere) Would pre disaster forest have relied entirely on the blue light to have a source of drinking water that they didn’t have to worry about polluting, and that’s why there are no pipes carrying clean water from other areas?

[frigid tinsel]

Probably. Maybe they sprinkle seeds and grass in there to “feed” them

[compact shale]

Or they try a life hack they learned from Cannoneer

...said life hack being to use their emote to cook the fish

[tranquil harbor]

Come on, that's just cruel

[rigid mural]

abt ts finding skykids hilarious

[keen shore]

is there a part of home space that’s just like… time out for naughty skykids

[frigid tinsel]

But they don’t need to eat, why’d they cook the fish?

[compact shale]

To see if Cannoneer was lying about cooking the fish with their emote or not just to seem cooler

[carmine garnet]

I mean they also cook crabs

[tranquil harbor]

You think they don't need to eat. I'm not on that train

[compact shale]

That crab pit was most likely made by Pleaful.

[tranquil harbor]

yet Pleaful parent is a spirit and that pit is fresh

[frigid tinsel]

I love how I got pinged trice for this

[compact shale]

it's harder to render stuff rotting over time

also the crabs are made of rock on the outside and rocks aren't known to decay

[tranquil harbor]

I'm not getting into 'can sky kids eat' discourse, I get unnecessarily stubborn and angry about it

[rigid mural]

? why ?

[compact shale]

They said it themselves

we all have our "that ticks me off" topics

[keen shore]

My quick idea of skykids eating:

We can burn once living things (wax, the ingredients of grandma’s food, so on) and consume it as Light, in order to get more light for our candles, but we don’t necessarily need to. Calling it eating isn’t quite right, but since the people in this chat are most likely humans who need to eat, it’s the closest thing to relate it to

[tranquil harbor]

I'm pretty serious about food in general, so that might have something to do with it, but honestly I don't know the exact reason. I just know I don't want to be rude to y'all over something that doesn't matter at the end of the day

[compact shale]

Lorechat really do be like that, talking about things that don't matter

[harsh pecan]

how did we learn how to juggle with no previous experience

[tranquil harbor]

Juggler taught us

[carmine garnet]

Ok. Back onto the past topic. What outfits? Spells? Or animations? Would people like to get in a lore heavy season?

[rigid mural]

i have a theory sky kids may have something that came from ancestors, like muscle memory

[harsh pecan]

in less than 5 seconds

[compact shale]

Considering that we have gravity manipulation

we could be changing the gravitation of the balls

that's a big help

[tranquil harbor]

Clothes with some color, like the stuff in switch trailer. The... Mom(?) next to the little boy had a red shirt on and I want stuff like that. I came during days of love, so all I have are default clothes and angler's outfit, and they're all the white and brown stuff

[harsh pecan]

i need more lore

[keen shore]

weird question . if Minecraft existed in the sky world do you think it would be regarded as an anti Megabird game because one of your objectives is to mine blue rock out of ground (BAD)

[tranquil harbor]

No

[compact shale]

I don't think Megabird goes THAT hard

[tranquil harbor]

Even most religious people don't go that hard irl. Fiction does not equal reality, unless you're a complete nut.

[harsh pecan]

i would play it then

[keen shore]

I don’t think it would be but the idea of an ancestor getting super flustered over Minecraft diamonds is oddly funny to me

[compact shale]

In my alternate Skyverse, Megabird views the ancestors as mistakes and as the "enemy" but yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[harsh pecan]

how much candles are diamonds worth?

[rigid mural]

anything can be minecraft if you hit things hard enough

[tranquil harbor]

Sometimes people bring up their fanfics and I feel like Marge telling her kids to lighten up a little

[carmine garnet]

What if the season brought a recoloring tool? Lol that would be so much work

[keen shore]

skykid reliving tearful light miner memory: Haha This Is Just Like Minecraft

[harsh pecan]

omg yes

[compact shale]

I'd like to change the color temperature of things

color temperature is the bane of quite a few good outfits

[raw crypt]

swimming in the abyss mines: This is just like Minecraft

[tranquil harbor]

A prop like the fireworks staff, but it's infinite rainbow spell

[carmine garnet]

But maybe you can pick between a default, color, then warm and cool temperatures (for at least their color parts)

[raw crypt]

i need a long dress like some ancestors have thats all

I ALSO NEED CAT COSMETICS 🤝 SO TRUE SO TRUE

[harsh pecan]

SAME

[keen shore]

I need cat tail and ears cosmetic :-)

[tranquil harbor]

I want a dress with long sleeves. Right now we have short sleeves, or a 'dress' that's actually a shirt with really tiny shorts underneath. More skirts and dresses

[carmine garnet]

So idea.
The prince would have a grey cap as default, with maybe some grey color outfit as default. Then maybe the warm might be golden color accents to it?.

[uncut pond]

Eh, making stuff be able to be recolored isn't that much work really

[harsh pecan]

oh-

[keen shore]

Ah yes the Gay Rod

[compact shale]

we're talking full 3d models here el mici

[uncut pond]

I want to say something but I think beta stuff wasn't allowed in this channel

[tranquil harbor]

I'd love to be able to pick a flying trail color. I want red default flying trail, but I've seen yellow 6 times and purple twice. By the time I get a red trail spell, it'll be too special to use

[carmine garnet]

Also for some color ideas, this person fan season is amazing (plant based)

https://sleep--b.tumblr.com/post/676275301234425856/my-fanmade-sky-children-of-the-light-season

[uncut pond]

I know, and I still stand by what I said
Changing the color of certain parts of a model is super easy, even Minecraft does it

You just need to have a second texture for the part of the model you wanna recolor, and then changing the color of that texture is very simple

[tranquil harbor]

CLOTHES WITH LITTLE STRAP SHOES YES

[compact shale]

maybe Muralist needs to teach us something

[tranquil harbor]

We need more dresses/skirts/feminine clothes, and we need more clothes with little shoes and boots. Our sky kids' lil feets are certainly adorable, but I want those spirit sandals so bad

[uncut pond]

I'm not sure I understand what's the point you're trying to make

[keen shore]

living in hope that the next wasteland season gives us armor/weapons

[compact shale]

If we want to change the color of cosmetics, and the cosmetics are made of light, we probably need to know a thing or two about what the visible light spectrum is and how to use it to our color-changing satisfaction

[tranquil harbor]

Yeah, it'd be cute to give the kids a lil chest plate or something, maybe some gauntlets.

It doesn't matter if the cosmetics are actually made of light because they're treated like cloth

[harsh pecan]

oh no science

[tranquil harbor]

Or maybe an outfit with a little dagger strapped at the waist. Like, for utility reasons, to crack open a crab shell or something for lunch

[compact shale]

Shuck those reef clams without breaking your mitt hands

[uncut pond]

I think we might've completely misunderstood each other here
My point was that changing the color of a part of a 3D model is super easy and simple from a coding/technical standpoint

[compact shale]

I was talking about what it would take in-universe

[tranquil harbor]

Yeah, definitely. It doesn't help that human culture is kinda what decides what's 'masculine' and 'feminine' and irl guys do not have a lot of hair options. Once it's long, there is a 95% chance it's a feminine style, and 4% that it's for 'both'

[compact shale]

what's the other 1%

[sharp lichen]

Imagine a maid cosmetic in Sky: I’m not even sure what would happen

[tranquil harbor]

That the hair is straight up masculine

[uncut pond]

I mean, there's always the option of adding a unch of crazy anime hairs lol
Realistic? No, but I think it would increase the amount of masculine hairstyle options

[keen shore]

The first thing that popped into my head was “forest elder dress”. I don’t know why it did, make of it what you will

[harsh pecan]

chaos

[compact shale]

bigger ahoges (the moth hair has one, but tiny)

[formal skiff]

Shoutout to spikey hair spirit for having long androgynous hair

[harsh pecan]

dang, only 1%

[tranquil harbor]

It's not exact math. Either way I'm talking about irl fashion and stuff, not sky
Men don't get many options.

[carmine garnet]

I’m thinking the season that goes into the past actually adds and has a lot more gameplay that gets added

[compact shale]

My place's dress code

Boys: 2by3 cut, no exceptions
Girls: Any hairstyle, just tie it up in lab
All: No hair dye, no voluntary shaving, no facial hair

[carmine garnet]

Also another interesting fan season

https://jello-skykid.tumblr.com/post/677955889010999296/sky-needs-more-green

[tranquil harbor]

It's hard to add masculine hair styles in games when there aren't many resources to pull from.

[uncut pond]

W... Why no facial hair...?

[compact shale]

add yu gi oh hair

[formal skiff]

Yeah imagine trying to present androgynously. It’s such a fine line that I’ve given up on that and decided there’s no point in walking that knife’s edge of societal norms when dresses and skirts are awesome and I’m happier when I’m wearing whatever I want instead of monitoring my appearance in the frame of “looking nonbinary enough”

[compact shale]

for the clean and professional

edit: JUST KIDDING I HAVE NO IDEA

[tranquil harbor]

I don't get why people would jump you for that. It's so benign and reasonable. "I just want some more hair that isn't super fancy"

[carmine garnet]

People are very weird about hair…like very weird

[rigid mural]

reasonable opinion but i like to think of pointing candlemaker's as the "just some guy" hair
please dont call afros crappy tho