lore-discussion-spoilers

[hushed steeple]

Wait, if sky kids are at least 5000° F, then how does our mochi bunny get even 5 inches away from us without completely dying?

[frigid tinsel]

yes, that's possible.
so for the fic I'm currently writing (Dear Fellow Traveler), Commodore finds a child Cannoneer in the Wasteland. basically adopts them into their crew, but Commodore isn't the captain of the crew they're currently in. said captain isn't happy having an unhinged, fire-magic child on their very wooden boat but they respect Commodore and hold them at tentative length.

well shenanigans happen and Commodore and Cannoneer get kicked off the crew. they eventaully get picked up by someone else and more shenanigans happen and they get separated again (still figuring that out).

they reunite years later when the Commodore is an actual commodore. but Commodore's legacy doesn't last and things happen that send them to just the crew of five that makes the current Abyss spirits.

[compact shale]

away from us?

also, where'd you get 5000F from?

[frigid tinsel]

it's also possible that long hair and braids are just a popular style in post-Eden fall Wasteland spirits

[compact shale]

It does keep them locks out of them eyes

[hushed steeple]

In the nicest way possible.....

I demand an example.

[frigid tinsel]

even Abyss guide has a braid

[hushed steeple]

So does blushing spirit, and mariposa from Barbie over in assembly has braids too. And most of the hairstyles in wasteland aren't in braids, especially with the main constellation spirits. And they're all in a post apocalyptic memory.

[frigid tinsel]

First Abyss ult gift

[hushed steeple]

I meant close to us.

And also 5000° F comes from when people were talking about sky kids being too hot for humans.

[hushed steeple]

That is one braid, and maybe abyss guide and Cannoneer are siblings. It seems three braids is common in that family. Everyone else with braids doesn't count though, they have less than 3 and made them really loose.

[compact shale]

mariposa from Barbie over in assembly

Ah yes, Scoldiposa

[frigid tinsel]

braids are a protective hairstyle, especially for African folk. braids allow your hair to grow; keep out moisture; and prevent damage, breakage, flatness, and frizz. it's no surprise braids are common universally.
braids can just be a hairstyle someone likes and wears cos they like it.

[hushed steeple]

This is the only right way to refer to her now.

[frigid tinsel]

just cos their hair is braided doesn't mean they're related. as I said, braids are a protective hairstyle. they are also everyday low maintenance – you don't gotta worry so much about your hair if they're braided.
I say this as someone who used to have braided hair.

[hushed steeple]

Ok, maybe the braids don't make a difference. BUT EVERYTHING ELSE!? Please don't ignore all the rest. Also in sky, we still don't know very well how ancestors genetics worked.

[compact shale]

And

YOU CAN SLEEP WITH THEM!!!

[hushed steeple]

I list many things here, and out of the bunch, you guys decide to argue about hair. It could be family tradition, also I forgot to mention, they are the only two spirits so far with shaved and tattooed hair styles.
Shaved and tattooed going together here, not separate.

[compact shale]

Commodore has tattoos?

[hushed steeple]

Yes, manta tattoos oh his head.

[frigid tinsel]

i subscribe to the idea that the ancestors were the most human beings of Sky and are mostly human, so they might've had biological families. idk if Cannoneer and Commodore are related, but they certainly care about each other and there are a lot of similarities between their appearance. I'm not sleeping on the idea.

reminds me of this tumblr user who headcanons that Cannoneer is Commodore's child and Abyss guide is Commodore's grandchild: https://pain-del-doge.tumblr.com/post/675549496827084800/
I find it touching.

[compact shale]

Send pic because I'm skipping them

[hushed steeple]

I don't have one and I can't play sky at the moment.

[frigid tinsel]

give me a moment

[frigid tinsel]

Commodore’s hairstyle comes with manta tattoos

[hushed steeple]

Ahhhhhhh, you just didn't like the hairstyle comparison I made. Please let me know that you still agree with the theory next time. It got confusing there, wait you do agree right? Im starting to be filled with confused doubts.

[hushed steeple]

TGC promotes kids to get tattoos at young ages.

[frigid tinsel]

Cannoneer’s hair and mask has tattoos too

[compact shale]

I wonder if the tattooing process is just as painful as irl

[frigid tinsel]

i neither agree nor disagree. the lore is vague and open to interpretation, we can see things however we like and it's not certain whether we'll ever know if any of our theories are canon. the further they deviate from the little evidence we have or the more patterns we try to string together, the less certainty our theories contain. that isn't discounting whether certain theories are possible or not. of course i'm biased to my own ideas and my own thought processes, but I can entertain other people's ideas and provide alternative thoughts that they may not have considered, whether it adds to or discounts their theories.

[hushed steeple]

Ok, Alasdair I need you to bring up bird accessory.

The bird actually has an eye, I believe, on the top of its head. At least by everything I've learned of light creatures that would be an eye.

[frigid tinsel]

this is of course when one of my moths start bugging me and makes my skid's head move

[hushed steeple]

Go to another realm? That might keep them away for a bit.

[frigid tinsel]

Fun fact: the bird has a diamond on its head

[hushed steeple]

Thats probably its eye actually.

[frigid tinsel]

No eyes.
Consider that the devs just didn’t bother putting eyes on an accessory

[hushed steeple]

The diamond on the top of its head is the eye.

[frigid tinsel]

Why would a flying creature evolve to look exclusively up?

[hushed steeple]

It can look forward, in fact its giving you the stank eye right now. Also, all the new fish have one eye on their heads, similar to this but oval shaped since its on such a thin surface. And the majority of manta of which have eyes have orange around their eyes. So do all the fish, as well as this bird.

[frigid tinsel]

deep breath

[hushed steeple]

Some manta are blind, tell me, why would a fictional flying creature be blind........

[frigid tinsel]

Exactly, it doesn’t make sense for a flying creature to be blind. Even bats aren’t blind (a lot of species of bats do have poor eyesight, but can still see). So why think they’re blind?

[hushed steeple]

Because this manta is literally blind. It has no eyes.
Dumb compression. Search up sky cotl sanctuary manta.

[frigid tinsel]

Prob a technical limitation. Can’t have too much detail or phones’ GPUs will explode

Something to keep in mind: what’s true in-universe, what’s a gameplay mechanic, and what’s a technical limitation?

[hushed steeple]

This manta and the small mini mantas are blind. Every other manta in sanctuary has eyes. And GPU's exploding? There is a massive herd of mantas, A giant island detailed waters a trench a massive whale manta and more. A couple of eyes will do nothing. Also I mentioned blind manta to Ash and they immediately knew.

[frigid tinsel]

You’d be surprise

[compact shale]

Somehow this question is harder than one thinks at times

Somehow

[hushed steeple]

I have spent hours studying the creatures of sky. I have seen details many miss, the tiniest change between a manta from one realm and a manta from another. I bet you didn't know all the mantas in forest are dwarfed. Or how the mantas above valleys first ice rink have a longer wing span than the mantas in the herd above sanctuary. Or how the treasure reef mantas have unique back fins. If TGC doesn't add eyes to something, it is not because the game couldn't handle too many simple eyes in one area.

Gameplay mechanics can be lore oriented as well. And technical limitations can mold lore too.

[tulip aspen]

i get your point, but that's the eye on mantas, so i think that'd also be the theme they're going with with birdie here

it has to sit in the melting pot for a while longer, none of the new conclusions you, salem, or i have made will be confident until it's spent at least a month being restated

so by next season, we can be pretty sure of things yea

thats how we all did it with flight, with all the topics about the research, the paint, the migration, the highway, ect

something (kinda) from that that remained a highly debated topic a long while after that, tho, was

1. if great manta evolved, or grew up
2. if the sanct whale is evolved from mantas or anything

[fierce vector]

Guys i have a question, whats with those light button on our chest? It always shown up in all of our pants

I thought she was his wife at first, but yeah they seem to either be related somehow? Maybe brother or sister type of way?

[compact shale]

It's the spot where our candle is. It disappears when we pull our candle out.

[nimble ingot]

That and there is a budget to how small detail can be vs how the overall style would allow for it, coupled with the purpose.

Meaning, bird does not need eyes because it is small and is an accessory

[nimble ingot]

How mants eveolve is not clear but there is a hint that suggest they consume energy (similar to skykids claiming winged light to fly farther). While a skykid does not have a hreater or elder variant, the concept of larger light creatures carrying more light is a possibility.

The sanctuary whale is referred to as an elder manta (I cannot recall where, but can look it up if need be).
The same goes to the elder cosmic manta in vault.

[tulip aspen]

the debate wasnt on how they evolve, but if they evolve at all or not

the sanct/elder whale is not canonically called the elder manta, only fans have ever called it that, and it catches on between ear easily

[tulip aspen]

w h a t

[tulip aspen]

sure?
the deva kinda dont care about lore tho

[nimble ingot]

I see.
I'll look up the name.
As for the evolution topic.
There is concept art that shows this.

The question though remains in if they would evolve into larger variants in their lifetimes, or upon their next life (as in, would they grow bigger, or be born bigger).

[tulip aspen]

i love thos

[tulip aspen]

theyve changed a lot since the concept art fam, but yea, that's definitely an argument that was used during said debates lol

[compact shale]

JAM NOT AGAIN

[nimble ingot]

That is also true.

Though I may stubbornly refer to them whenever there is a something that may support the case or help with clues.
The weight of concept art's worth may have dwindled when the game went a different direction since Light Awaits. But the game does seem to use pieces of it as a part of the current lore.

[tulip aspen]

WYM NOT AGAIN THIS FACT NEVER CHANGED

[terse crest]

Orange light symbol looks like prophecy fire symbol now 👀

[compact shale]

I THOUGHT THE REVEAL OF THE LORE BIBLE WAS THE END OF IT

Aaaaaaand Jam's writing an essay.

[tulip aspen]

for me, when i consider concept art, im trying to 'realistically' gauge the path they took from where they are in that point in development and conceptualization, until launch

exactly what changes, in the story, the narrative, the visuals, and the gameplay

what exactly about the story was groomed and brushed up to be just kinda a bit more clean and merely existing rather than be unique in it's own right

a lot of the story still exists, i think the 'real' story, the 'lore bible', has to have became officially concrete sometime either before or during the public launch of Light Awaits

the story has never changed since then, and that's what their 'lore bible' is, or as ash says it, a pamphlet/booklet devs read through to have a general understanding of the full, solid story

because of this I've came to the conclusion that all the meat and nitty gritty of what makes the king, the apocalypse, all of it

it's still the same story; but in-game, they stripped the explanation of the story away so that there's not really a story to fully comprehend

this kind of 'turning off the lights but you're still in the room' moment lead to the game being stripped of the details of the story, but retaining the themes that original 'lore bible' story hadhas

[nimble ingot]

Admittedly the lore bible has been made a while ago and I need to brush up on that to make a fair statement about it.

As for the lore in the game, it has changed.

It has changed when the murals were update to not just show the elders.
It changed when it shows that the ancestors play a more prominent role in the plot than originally thought (they are not just witnesses, they alos played a role in what happened in the past).

It changed when the darkstone can be found outside of the Hidden forslest, and I am not talking about if they were moved to another location.

It changed when the King is no longer there to be saved.

Light Await's, style of story telling was more literal (at least thatvis what I could gather from old playthrough videos and concept art).

Even the passing was different, esoecially at the start.

The current game is less intend on the story of the wolrd, and more about the skykids.
How they learn new abilities, make friends with the spirits and each other.
The sacrafices they make to reach a goal.
The story in Sky:children of the light lies in between the lines.

Let take season of Abyss as an example.

On the surface (literally), it is a sunken island with a crew of scavengers.
When you look around a bit, you see the ancestors and their work the mantas and their mining operation.

If you know a bit of the meta knowledge of the game, you can recognise the fish and eel.

And still deeper yet, there is a hidden narative of how creatures can become corrupted, or grow in size. However that is an incomplete picture that is slowly being built up over time.
As if the devs are keeping the big picture behind the curtain.

Or as Jam said, they are keeping the lights off, bjt you are welcome to look around with your tiny candle in the dark.

[tulip aspen]

1. murals?
2. the ancestors were always important tho?
   they're kinda the kingdom that did all this
3. just because concept art says they initially found darkstone in the forest realm, we can assume that means it's only found in the forest realm lol
4. we dont even know if they began developing the king boss into the game, so how can you be sure anything changed there anyhow?

.
you cant be sure it has changed, is what im getting at
not 100% anyways

according to ash they've always had the lore bible as a standard, it didnt just appear or anything
there are set rules and themes they abide by (are supposed to abide by) when worldbuilding this game, and thats what ash told us
they havent changed since LA, and i think they havent even changed since even before that

it became a lot more concrete after LA tho, thats for sure, with set rules about light creature visuals, spirit abilities and visuals, skykid abilities and visuals, the mindspace 'pocket dimensions', ect ect

[nimble ingot]

1. The intro mural at the start of Dawn (or the start of your first playthrough in the game), was updated to include the ancestors and not just tell the story of how the elders and their kingdomels fell.

2. Based on concept art and in the game, the elders are the most important characters due to their size (which emphasizes their roles), and their positions as rulers over a realm. As new seasons come up, the devs started to give more and more attention to them. While in the past it was about the world and what the elders represented (that is just a short and personal assessment).

There are shards of darkstone in Eden. Even if darkstone were to be moved around. There is a hypothetical possibility of darkstone existing in practially every realm, as an ore embedded in the ground and what helps make islands float (similar to the metallic ore in James Cameron's Avatar)

4. There is/was plans to impliment the King into the game. Acting as a boss, but not to fight skykids. Due to the nature of this evidence I have, it is not recommended to show the ingame proof here, but there js conceot art that shows this at least (I can dm you the proof if you like).

[tulip aspen]

i dont think it ever just talked about elders?
it showed realm symbols, that was kinda it

it didnt mention or visualize the elders in the intro, old or new

"we built a home" and it shows the realm constellations

.
.
.
for your second point, it sounds more like you want the elders to be important

which, i absolutely get, but they are not the main characters at all, they were deities that served the kingdom in various ways.
id love to see a season about them, but yeah this is about the actual people of the kingdom

.
.
3. indeed lol

4. yea im aware of the plans for the king, we've looked at these concepts side by side before lmao

and yes i know about illegal soundbites as well

[nimble ingot]

You are right.

The canon lore is nearly impossible to find. Even if we have all of the pieces, which we dont. The reason is because the story of sky is not done. There is no ending to it.

While the devs do have a lore bible, it does not guarentee they might update a few parts of it.
That is what happened to the intro mural. And Partly the reason why the concept art would no longer work as is, but as pieces since parts of it have been reworked since then.

What I believe changed singlce Light Awaits is how the story is being told and how the story is extended to allow for replayability.
If the ending of the story were to be out. There seasons would become an afterthought, or a prequel.
By omitting "THE END" in the story, the seasons instead become chaoeters that add on to the story, up to the point when the story does end.

[tulip aspen]

ash stated that while the intro mural changed, the story did not

trust me i got scared too lol

.
.
.
i find it interesting that while transitioning from LA to launch removed an 'ending' to the game like you said; nothing... actually changed

it's really fascinating that most endings to stories truly mean nothing and can be written over like nothing happened.
like with sequels!

[nimble ingot]

Here is the old into.
https://youtu.be/3dNShWJ0jiY
It shows a human figure surrounded by the constellation of the realms.

As you complete the cutscene with the elder, the constellation is shown. We even summon elders from their respective constellations from Orbit.

If that and the temples showing up witht he constellation does not say 'elder' or 'kingdom' I dont know what does.

The new intro is retelling the story from the ancestors's side.
https://youtu.be/7ICnt_pT_ro

[tulip aspen]

saying "the end" just had no merit, no power upon just saying it

even actions, like visually killing the elders in LA, just is like "dang.... welp gimme my rebirth prize!"

[tulip aspen]

i know what the intro looks like yes but thank you lol

and yes, after you meet an elder, the constellation of that realm appears, indeed, with the spirits of that realm making up it

the temples say elders but the constellations personally never did to me, just my own thing tho

[nimble ingot]

Personally, I want to know more about the elders in the game, since the game has not given them much attention when the seasons started.

While the murals serve well to ellaborate and expand on what the elders were and what they did.
The elders themselves have not changed in 2 years of updates.

The seasons are fantastic to expand on the lore, though interestingly enough whenever there are any elders present (human or creature), they are usually distant and mysterious.

[tulip aspen]

if only

[compact shale]

LA had an ending?

[tulip aspen]

kinda?

[nimble ingot]

Sort of.
Or at least a conclusion or closure.

The current game instead lets the game simply loop back to the start.

[main nest]

Were there any seasons that involved human elders, at all?

I joined with little prince and got the feeling, the base story was left pretty much untouched since the start - with Abyss changing that ofc, but not for elders

[sly kestrel]

Human elders?

[naive sequoia]

Human?

[hushed steeple]

That’s a good question, were spirits and elders humans or like us made of clay

[rigid mural]

@nimble ingot @tulip aspen

Wym by lore bible ? We definitely don't have access to what devs are given, so what's the document you need to "brush up" on ?

[nimble ingot]

I meant the lore docs on Discord, I havent read those in a while.

[compact shale]

We had a whole damn debate about that

[nimble ingot]

Season of Prophecy had elders in their murals, and season of flight had a small reference with the guide being the day elder's former apprentice.

[nimble ingot]

The spirits were the living ancestors.
They are now like ghosts that haunt the world.

It is likely that theu were living being, as in mortals of flesh and bone.
This is because they can die, can eat and drink, and need rest like humans do.

Skykid only imitate this behavriour, as they can withstand fire, cannot freeze, and can take hits from falling rocks without getting killed on the spot (skykids are not squishy).

[main nest]

Thank you. I completely missed the apprentice part. Could you lead me to where it was stated?

[nimble ingot]

Of course, @main nest
Have a look at the spirit intros on twitter or in the news channel for the season of flight guide's introduction.

Apologies, I cannot link to the message at the moment

[main nest]

Thank you, it's all good. I can look it up. Only a bit sad it wasn't stated anywhere in the game itself

[rigid mural]

Bricky's lore docs are outdated if you're talking about those; the theory vault and moth lore doc are useful but the canon lore doc has stuff we cannot verify is canon (the lost stream stuff but sometimes some facts are given without a working source).

Though if you mean the pins, they aren't checked that often by people (because it's tedious) but you will quickly recognize stuff not found on Tom Zhao's site yeah

Honestly Abyss makes me feel like the devs weren't just saying hollow words to appease us when they said they saw lore chat, despite some complaints I think the season is, lore-wise, what we needed to confirm suspicions.

So I'm hoping future seasons will follow suit and we can continue combing through them here !

I think it was a pretty smart move to have the crew being strangers to these ruins, lets us engage with two timelines.
Considering most wasteland spirits wade through ruins, it's not unlikely the Abyss crew are survivors of the wasteland war more than the eden apocalypse, but the latter is much cooler tbh.

[sharp lichen]

Goooood morning!

You know what follows me, THATS RIGHT MORE PHYSICS HAHAHA!

[compact shale]

You can't discuss physics if the other person around sucks at it! Checkmate!

[sharp lichen]

After we find the shape of a Skykid’s cross section, we can find the air density of Sanctuary Islands and the speed they were going! We could even repeat it with Crabs!

[formal skiff]

Guuuuys sanct has wiiiiiind. How about we use Home instead?

[sharp lichen]

We have your experiment first. I have an idea for calculations height: 1 wing flap is 3.5 chibis, so we can use controlled wing flaps to find out how much you fell (and therefore, the speed). But as it has wind, the results may be distorted. Thankfully, we can carry over cross-sectional area and drag coefficient

I’ve determined the shape of a Skykid’s similar to be a slightly more aerodynamic long cylinder, making the drag coefficient about 0.72-0.82

Here’s an easy experiment: do 1 wing flap up, then record yourself falling. You should also do more wing flaps, but remember that you should only use a wing flap once you’ve reached the peak of your last wing flap

Height may also be a big concern: if you’re min/average/ max height, that’s fine. But it’s safer to use the chibi mask if you have one

We’re almost there! I can see the gravity equation coming

[undone trench]

We're still trying to discover sky's gravity ? I'll look foward to your discoveries

[main nest]

But... wouldn't that equation assume skids fall like regular objects? Which they don't seem to do.
I don't think Skids enter free fall as regular physical objects do.
It's more of a slow descent.

[sharp lichen]

There, I found something! The drag coefficient of a feet first skydiver is 0.70. @main nest we could use crabs for our equation later!

[main nest]

Crabs seem better, yes :D

[prisma kernel]

Hallurr lore chat

What does the lore say about geysers in Sanc giving us light/energy? Not the polluted one, the regular ones

[undone trench]

Geysers irl are filled with hot water i think, so maybe the heat of the water can give us energy like fire

[sharp lichen]

Okay, you can help! What’s your in-game height?

[main nest]

I'd love to help but I don't know my height and I'm at work for at least 6 more hrs ^^°

[sharp lichen]

That’s okay, do you have a chibi mask? I have school too

[harsh pecan]

Nice

[sharp lichen]

Bad pun alert

You need to realize the gravity of the situation (haha please I’m going insane)

[main nest]

omg xD

[main nest]

not yet but hopefully next week xD

[undone trench]

I went to check and a Crab is about ~⅓ of a chibi height, and a chibi is 2.5 crabs height

[sharp lichen]

Great! I’ll use that to find the cross-sectional area of a crab. After that, we start the CRAB DROP TESTS

[eternal totem]

Crabs drop really slowly sometimes

[tranquil harbor]

yeah, sometimes you drop 'em and they hang in the air for a second like a cartoon's comedy beat

[compact shale]

WAIT WHAT

[tranquil harbor]

You've never played with the crabs?

[compact shale]

so THIS is what TGC means by "playing with crabs"

FUN!

[stable veldt]

I can hop to sky, I can try recording chibi + av. height (my height is exactly mid) with moth outfit,

[eternal totem]

Yeah, it’s inconsistent, so I’m not sure if it’s reliable

[stable veldt]

2 vids, safe to assume both of them lands in exact time (exactly 2.5 seconds, stopwatched starting from when they open up their wings just before starting to fall) for a single wing flap.

Height doesn't affect landing

[native shoal]

The science is still happening

[tranquil harbor]

Have we considered that chibi mask alters height but not weight? (Also, my theory that sky kids learn how to alter their fall speed as part of knowing how to fly continues)

[stable veldt]

Quite impossible, both lands at exact same time. Weight should affect more, even if it's only a split second

[compact shale]

Maybe the smaller you are, the denser your clay shell is to compensate

[stable veldt]

OH boy does this means the mask crammed all of your normal clay mass to a single small packet?

[compact shale]

Yep!

[limber hemlock]

Their velocity is constant, same goes to running
Just the object size appears to be different which play a tricks to our eyes

[stable veldt]

This means coding wise, size does not affect physics. IT's a constant, which means things gets way easier since this means we don't need to fuss about height.

What we still need to fuss about is the relative air current around maps and probable flying velocity

Physics in sky isn't that advanced. "But what about the drag of capes?"
While moving/walking yes you can see the cape being dragged around, but otherwise when flying/animation, it instead follows this set of loop of animation, making an illusion of wind current while in fact it's just manual addition

[limber hemlock]

Height and friend gave resistance to wind, which affects flying
Try this again in other maps with different wind currents and you will see the difference

||also i dont like how the cape of friend on piggy will never move-||

Its easy to add more advanced physic but user’s hardware support RIP

[stable veldt]

I'm aware other maps have different "air currents", but height should not matter. What I should probably take in account is your "friend" point. Unfortunately, I don't have friends for me to drag around hopping randomly under the name of "science" 😔 . Should try sometime later

[stable veldt]

Adding more advanced physics will task heavily on RAM, with the current sky without adv. physics it'll crash every second. Imagine with one kek

[formal skiff]

OH MY MEGABIRD OF COURSE
This is great! CRAAABS!

[terse canopy]

Anyone know what is this?
I mean who made this cute thing

[stable veldt]

where did you got this

I think it was a concept art? But man that looks glorious on the guide

[terse canopy]

Yea but I wonder where it come from and who draw it
I saw Chinese on it, con't tell me it's only for chinese again
I thought Ash draw this first time I saw it

[stable veldt]

if it was for the Chinese again, boy do I have to learn Chinese only to follow unreleased concepts?

[terse canopy]

Who knows, at least thank Mr Yui didn't put Chinese on the world map
||tbh man I'm tried of Chinese||

Btw I guess abyss would be…here?
I wish there'll give us a map like this one day

[stable veldt]

Wait a ding dang minute, this map implies home is set on the clouds before we tunnel down to the kingdom???

Nevermind I am dumb, i should be krilled. It ws the wind tunnels

[boreal nebula]

Regarding eyes and mask, the Light Eyes in masks are "fake"

Hope it does mess up anyone's headcanon, after all not all game logic don't have to correspond to Lore

[boreal nebula]

Both chibi and regular size can be assimilated into a simple point (like in all physics problems )

[stable veldt]

UNfortunately I don't have the knowledge to mess with codes and/or to replace asset, just to see the point of avatar (and I'm pretty sure it breaks TOS)

[rigid mural]

Maybe it's fanart ?

[harsh pecan]

Maybe

[copper saffron]

woah, do you have a source for this image?

[sharp lichen]

One roadblock we’ll have is air density. It’s the final step used in calculating the drag equation

[terse canopy]

Sorry IDK should I delete dis?
It's very cute tho

[sharp lichen]

This is great. Now we know that 1 wing flap is 94 inches, and we can divide by time to find out that they fall (with drag) 0.955 meters per second, or 2.13 miles per hour, or 3.4 kilometers per hour

[soft timber]

pops in here is this the maximum possible height you can get from one wing flap or is this a standard wing flap measurement? The amount of stars on your cape does affect your flying as stated in game

[stable veldt]

I guess what they meant as affect flying is how many we can boost up. Though if you want I can go to eden quickly and try again (but in eden, i'll automatically get back my WL. We'll need someone that's fairly new)

[thorny zealot]

I like how in this map the dark water of the wasteland resembles more of an oil spill.

The water does have an oily sheen. Aswell as darkness plants.

[soft timber]

Just want to make sure you triple check your stuff and think about stuff that affects the upward movement of the flap and downward speed of the skyd

[thorny zealot]

Done forget wind currents.

[stable veldt]

3.4 km/h doesn't necessarily means we found gravity accel. Or maybe there's no accel, just constant too

[copper saffron]

no no, i just wanted to see if u had a higher resolution one, ive always been interested in a map like this

[stable veldt]

I dropped in home. Should I try flapping in other maps?

[thorny zealot]

Well that's the thing, some areas have down drafts and other up drafts. I'm not quite sure on what your doing here but the environment does infact effect your flap hight when flying directly upwards.

[stable veldt]

We are aware, in fact this is one of the first ones I brought up when the topic started kek

[compact jungle]

Wait I know I’ll sound stupid saying this but

Are skykids fallen stars?

[compact jungle]

I just want some clarification just in case

[slate saffron]

Wait do we know a sky kid's average density and weight? If they're exceptionally light it may affect their fallspeed which will need to be accounted for if you're calculating sky's gravity (I think)

[stable veldt]

That's the thing, we don't really know and there's no item in game for us to balance/compare the skids with. Unless someone wants to try load a crab to a seesaw...

[slate saffron]

Then what about dropping dark crabs from large heights in the hidden Forrest? They don't seem to have any slow-fall thingy when dropped which might give a more accurate value for the calculations

[sullen gazelle]

i dont get the eel thing around the king and krills space, why’s it there?

[native shoal]

Yeah dropping crabs would help find gravity

[nimble ingot]

May I ask for more info, before I go barking up the wrong tree.

[formal skiff]

I would wear that dress. It’s gorgeous.

[formal skiff]

Yeah that may just be animation limitations, idk

[hushed steeple]

Its from chinese server, released during flight. Unfortunately part of a larger image of....uhhh.....I forgot his name.....one of the lead sky artist little avatar things next to it. Tui? So a clear image has never been found yet.

[sharp lichen]

I know, we have to factor in drag. All we need is the Air Density

[formal skiff]

CRABS! Less drag!

[sharp lichen]

Yeah, they’ll still have drag, but it’ll be less

[stable veldt]

Crabs are inconsistent, they sometimes fall really slowly

Also for the others, i was gonna hit the sack, so no more pings pls k thx

[formal skiff]

Exactly. Skids fall slowly bc we’re magic or something, also for ease of gameplay.

[frigid tinsel]

So reverse image search brought up nothing

[sharp lichen]

Either that, or Skykids are less aerodynamic

[soft timber]

Either can be correct looking at the many times my skid got yeeted by a krill and still manage to not lose any light

[opal heart]

Okay so do skykids have like anatomy?

Also why exactly do Krill hunt us they don’t like eat us or anything

[tranquil harbor]

The daily tip tab says 'they're hungry for our light'. Which may be an expression, but they actually DO eat our light. They don't get our winged lights, but they eat our main 'soul' light and we need to rekindle it

[opal heart]

Ahhhhhh that makes senseee tysm

[tulip aspen]

yee idk what they meant by that

[tulip aspen]

o lmao bru

sorry ig we were talking about two different things the entire time

[tulip aspen]

yea exactly there's a reason moths need new lore content from this generation of players lol

[frigid tinsel]

My Working Theory on the Composition of a Skykid
–clothing, hair, masks & other cosmetics made of light.
–a humanoid physical shell made of some magic-induced earthen material (i.e. clay, stone, ash, charcoal, meteorite) that has a hole in the chest and eyes.
–this hollow shell is full of light, such as winged light and neutral light.
–their cape, a manifestation of winged light.
–their flame, manifesting as the light in the hole in their chest and held outside their bodies via a red candle.
–their soul, appearing as a blue sparkle.

[opal heart]

Hmm

[tulip aspen]

that might be a good point!

[opal heart]

@simple crag lmao it’s literally your theory

[simple crag]

Damn that is just what I came up with

[opal heart]

Also thank you lots

[frigid tinsel]

Just based on mine and others in lorechat’s observations and musings

[simple crag]

I came up with it just playing the game cause I dont really talk or pay attention here

[frigid tinsel]

And Jam, yes I’m still working on the anatomy doc. Unfortunately I am a college student

[tulip aspen]

i wouldnt even wear it cos im not into that but it's still a thousand times better than the ult we got-

it'd be pretty cool to see some players wear that red dress

[simple crag]

Dang Im also intending on making one, maybe we can compare notes some time

I'm gonna try and write mine from the perspective of like, a researcher who has been watching and studying them tho

[tulip aspen]

yee same, i always had that theory since i was a moth, i just fought for months to make sure it was proven to be the most sensible outcome, and alasdair's compositions kinda pushed it forward in a way i could never, its nice

[tulip aspen]

that, my friend, is a whole
hecking
mood

[simple crag]

So obviously we are right since we are all coming to the same conclusions/hj

[frigid tinsel]

Undortunately the doc isn’t in a state worth sharing fbfbdjjfjfj

[tulip aspen]

well.. yes, but no 💀

there is no right answer, and the devs could easily breathe and just instantly tell us were wrong

its kinda like actual science, when a god could appear out of nowhere or it could turn out we're all actually indeed inside the matrix!

i kinda like that, no matter how infallible we make our arguments or theories, in the end, everything is only forever a theory, until the devs confirm it to be canon

leaves everything up to the mystery, so it's your and my choice to be confident, but in the end we technically shouldn't be lol

[frigid tinsel]

Flashback

[simple crag]

Yeah I know it was mostly a joke

[simple crag]

The water seeps in through the holes and extinguishes the flame inside

[frigid tinsel]

There’s a lot of ideas on “breathing”

[undone trench]

I think fire needs oxygen to burn, that might have something to do with breathing

[frigid tinsel]

Pardon my heavy bias

[undone trench]

That could be also a possible reason, but it does feel a bit off that there's no dark plants underwater but I can see why they wouldn't put any there, can't burn it if it's underwater

[tulip aspen]

yeah fruity loved that idea

in general there's just... a lot of trials the clayshell theory has had to go through, but luckily it made it through alive

[keen shore]

HmmmmM,Mmmmmm,…. Another light creature with diamond on he head. Why ?

[tulip aspen]

cos that's it's e y e

[undone trench]

Now that you bring up that diamond, there's some masks with that diamond shape on the forehead, and I have seen it painted on some walls I think, and it seems now that there's some creatures with it as well, maybe it means something

[keen shore]

I am not so sure…

• eye in that direction would severely limit field of vision
• Manta have their diamonds facing opposite direction - why ?
• we also have diamonds on our head that are Not eyes. some ancestors have diamonds on their masks

Hard to phrase this correctly but what if the reason we can see even when we’re maskless is that the light inside us gives us an innate quality to see? Like we don’t need functional anatomical eyes or anything because of that?

Would explain

• weird angles of diamond “”eyes”” on light creatures, especially why some have them and some do not
• why darkness creatures have more eyes Besides that diamond - they needed to grow them to actually see (topic from yesterday, I don’t think I need to link it but will if needed)

Do still wonder what the purpose of diamond is… Hmmm

Edit: awful idea - the forehead diamond is our actual eye and the other two are just decoys

[frigid tinsel]

my running idea on why skykids close their eyes when maskless is that opening their eyes without masks would be too much light for others, so they keep their eyes closed maskless as a courtesy. they also don't need* their eyes to see since they may be able to echolocate to some extent – see deep-calling giving them directions to "the Light"

though that idea about "courtesy" hasn't really stood given the gaps around the eyes in Cannoneer's mask (see: #lore-discussion-spoilers message). lots of space to not block out the light so the need for courtesy should still stand, but doesn't.

[undone trench]

This might be a little baseless but I think the masks could somehow be involved with how much light leaves through the eyes,

[frigid tinsel]

something I've been thinking about is that since skykids are mimicking ancestors, then it's possible ancestors didn't have blots of light as eyes while alive. even as spirits their light eyes aren't as bright. therefore they never would've had a need to keep their eyes closed "for courtesy." that's why Cannoneer and maskless ancestor spirits have their eyes open – they needed their eyes to see but might've had typical non-light eyes when alive. being dead doesn't change that.

because ancestors don't feel the need to close their eyes, skykids don't either. or shouldn't. except when maskless they do close their eyes. so skykids have some sort of instinct to close their eyes when maskless that ancestors did not have.

[naive sequoia]

Maybe masks are treated as clothes? It's not necessary, but being publicly naked isn't appreciated

[frigid tinsel]

yea, that's what I'm leaning toward – ancestors viewed bare faces as something to cover up and not look at in public, hence why everyone wore masks. maskless ancestors might've been part of a countercultural movement (👀 Valley).

[keen shore]

Imagine going to see sports or a race or whatever and someone shows up and they are (from your perspective) half naked

[frigid tinsel]

like bare ankles or shoulders are ✨ scandalous ✨

[naive sequoia]

The horror

I mean, seeing as even the elder wore masks, that's pretty controversial.

[tulip aspen]

yea honestly i prefer light creatures with no face

i know that sounds weird but it's just aesthetically way more appealing; so for me its not even just a 'technical limitation

[frigid tinsel]

Heck, I considered that in my fic

[undone trench]

I went to check the constellation and, quite a lot of spirits don't have a mask on their faces,

[regal forge]

Anyone know about the ‘king’ because I know we have very little info on them but I’ve just sort of heard they exist

[regal forge]

As someone who made a slideshow of Every spirit in sky ever, yes, most don’t wear masks (and have open eyes)

[frigid tinsel]

the gist of it is based off a lot of concept art that may or may not be canon anymore but here:

so we don't know exactly what the king's role is/was. they're the king so obviously they had responsibility over the whole kingdom. some think they okay'd power diamond production despite the pollution and animal cruelty it required. some think they made that giant diamond in Eden, some think they set it off and created the storm, intentionally or not. some think the king was Chosen One, the (proto) skykid who first completed all four Trials in the Cave of Prophecy, who rose from prince to king. some think the prince and king are separate people.

devs have said that the king is "beyond saving" or "not around to be saved" but have also hinted that they're present in the game, just "not in the way you may think."

some think the king was shattered in the Eden explosion and their scattered remains became skykids (we're the king theory). some think the king or prince is the white featureless kid we hug after dying in Eden. some think the king was utterly obliterated in the Eden explosion, hence being "beyond saving."

Compilation of symbolism associated with the king by Kamilico

[frigid tinsel]

Could you share that? Would be very useful. Also I’m pretty sure most spirits wear masks

[naive sequoia]

I miss looking at that art of him drinking, he looks so alive

[undone trench]

The king's head looks like those tower things we see at gw, and there's a drawing that resembles it on the concept arts on that same image, so maybe that has some importance

[naive sequoia]

The turrets?

[undone trench]

Those are turrets !?

[regal forge]

i just spent so much time staring at thank you!!! Also yeah I could share that slideshow at some point. Note the seasonal spirits are much harder to get photos for so there’s aren’t perfect

[frigid tinsel]

In Zhao’s concepts, the turrets would shoot lasers

[naive sequoia]

They were supposed to be :')

[undone trench]

I have seen zhao's concept arts recently, I don't know how that resemblance didn't connect to me

[naive sequoia]

I don't blame you, so much stuff has changed. Even I don't know (in current Sky) if it's dysfunctional turret or a statue of worship. Heck, why not both?

[frigid tinsel]

Musings in fic

[naive sequoia]

Give me the fic. Now.

[frigid tinsel]

relevant concept art

[frigid tinsel]

it's not done nor in a state of cohesion so you're gonna have to wait for the full thing

[rain pond]

hey lire chat, today i'd like to explore an element of the Sky world:

Why do the base-game spirits always seem so... isolated? Sky is a game about connections, Tom Zhao's concepts and the final game being marketed as one about friendship both reflect this - why don't the spirits, who are important to the game as well?

My personal theory is that the Sky civilization really screwed up with their diamonds and tech, to the point that they became the antithesis of the environment that they lived in.

I'd like thoughts on this though.

[tulip aspen]

they are dead, and only their memory really is left

[undone trench]

One thing I couldn't catch up with until now is, if those spirits are memories, then how can they interact with us, for example, on the seasonal quests and cutscenes

[frigid tinsel]

We follow the spirit memeories to find the petrified spirit to free them. Once the spirit is free, they’re present in the present

[undone trench]

Ohhh I see,

[undone trench]

Those statues are still in game, and they where supposed to resemble that king, and in game there's no spirit or elder we see that resembles it, so perhaps if it's meaning still is the same, maybe that's a hint on how the ||eden|| elder might look,

[sharp lichen]

@formal skiff HAHAHAHA! Time for crabs to feel the wrath of Science!

[formal skiff]

YESSSSS

[sharp lichen]

But first, I need to calculate the air density of Sanc and Home

For that, I need to find the temperature of those places. We have something: 0-100 degrees Celsius, as water is liquid in this state. However, I believe that the air density does not affect the calculation too much

Ok, I got a number! The drag force is 175.35! I may need to plug in the calculations again

[keen shore]

Sanctuary is probably on the warm side. It just gives me those… vibes ?

[sharp lichen]

It may be around 164, but expect a margin of error of about +-10, due to varying temperatures

[keen shore]

sits quietly and pretends to understand what is going on

[sharp lichen]

I need a Physics Major for this, please! I think I found something

[native shoal]

That looks like terminal velocity to me

Not a physics major but

It’s when acceleration stops in a free fall, and from then on whatever it is is falling at a constant speed

[keen shore]

That sounds about right

[native shoal]

That’s what I’m guessing you’re referring to from the picture?

[regal forge]

Not to jump in with the most random lore ever but according the launch trailer way back when… isle was GRASS like prairie and not sand

[keen shore]

Yeah!!! Is super neat

[formal skiff]

How did you get that number

Also I have like 15 min if you need me for any crab drops

[regal forge]

I’m sorry— are we trying to learn how heavy crabs are?… or how little gravity there is?……. Or something else entirely?

[foggy lotus]

the math is still here from yesterday oh god

[tranquil harbor]

calculating gravity

Yeah Lotus, and they're working so hard I'd feel bad about accidentally killing the topic with a different theory 😂

[native shoal]

This whole thing was started by joking about chibi tsadi (that’s the concept name for wasteland elder for the lore moths who don’t know)

[regal forge]

The elders have names?!

[native shoal]

Only concept names, officially they have no names

I’ve only been in here a couple weeks so I only know the wasteland elder’s concept name

[frigid tinsel]

The Elders (and king/prince) have names based off Hebrew letters from concept development that are no longer canon, though the fandom sometimes refers to them as such:

Isle – Daleth (ד)
Prairie – Ayin (ע)
Forest – Teth (ט)
Valley – Samekh (ס) (they share a name, though the fandom refers to as Sah and as Mekh)
Wasteland – Tsadi (צ)
Vault – Lamed (ל)
Prince – Alef (א)
King – Resh (ר)

[tranquil harbor]

They've also been referred to by the times of day their realm represent: Dawn, Day, Rain/Forest, Sunset, Dusk, and Night (obvs forest mama is outlier)

[frigid tinsel]

yea, iirc the devs refer to them by times of day
Isle – Dawn
Prairie – Day or Daylight
Forest – Rain
Valley – Sunset
Wasteland – Dusk
Vault – Night

as for Forest, I think it's cos the rain and storms can obscure the time of day considerably

[keen shore]

Hello person with 1/2 of my name /j

[regal forge]

Awesome!! Thank you!!

[tranquil harbor]

I still want to know if chibi mask/spells would work on elders. Like, I need to know if they have a unique size as 'chibi' because they're elders, or if chibi mask makes them sky kid chibis

[keen shore]

I’m sticking to my answer that they would all become vault elder height and vault elder would not change in height

[frigid tinsel]

I like to think their names regard the time of day they were born/fell. Forest Elder prob landed during a rainstorm

[keen shore]

I like this idea because it implies whoever found them was just. Really uncreative

[tranquil harbor]

It'd be funny if the ancestors were constantly going 'Yeah, I found them when it was Dusk' or something and the elders, before they learned the language thought 'wait did they give me a name or somethin'?

[frigid tinsel]

they might've named themselves or just knew their names already

[keen shore]

The king falls and everyone panics because they ran out of times of day.

[tranquil harbor]

I'm in love with that second one 'You swallowed back every urge to push yourself down the slope' looooool
Bicker always

[frigid tinsel]

lmao when they realized they had the same name, they fought each other

[keen shore]

Mom said it’s MY turn with the name privileges /j

[tranquil harbor]

Yes yesssssss

[half shadow]

hey I’m in love with this and the way you write is really great thanks okay

[tranquil harbor]

Me: Logically, the valley elders get along very well, if they move as one and valley seems so prosperous.
Also me: They never spend a moment not fighting is hilarious

[keen shore]

The entire reason valley did great was because they were both competing to see who could run it better

[foggy lotus]

give me the fic when its done i need to read it

[frigid tinsel]

when are they not fighting?

[compact shale]

Valley Tour guide: Alright here are our great elders!
Tourists: shouldn't we be barging in while they're fighting?
Valley tour guide: My dear traveler, they're always fighting. Now just stay behind this red line and you'll be fine.

[foggy lotus]

someone draw that

[frigid tinsel]

this was this quip I wrote for the main fic (I lost it, unfortunately) where skykids were talking about the Valley Elder(s) and one of them mentions "have you seen them fight? it's violent." and another goes "it's funny lololol"

[tranquil harbor]

A sky kid who got their light yeeted vs one who didn't

[foggy lotus]

i have a smol hc that the valley elders can feel each other’s pain and this makes it even more funny

[frigid tinsel]

rn it's in an editing phase towards completion. but i'm a college student

[rapid arrow]

HAH,

Also I have arrived back lol

[timber osprey]

Bro where is this fic gonna be, this is so good

[tranquil harbor]

during the cutscene: It's worth it to smack him

[native shoal]

Holds Dusk gently Sir this is my emotional support elder

[frigid tinsel]

that's literally what I'm going witho lkusdfnbjkdsfbn

[keen shore]

How many “why are you hitting yourself” jokes do you think have been made since they spawned (I’m using this term because it’s funnier)

[frigid tinsel]

AO3, rn I'm still working on it, but I'm also in college.
the only reason I've been able to churn out the 18 pages I have is cos I linked it to one of my classes.

[rapid arrow]

Hi so because I was a bit late to the convo what are we talking about?

[timber osprey]

Ayye, good luck with it and college

[tranquil harbor]

Valley elders fighting

[frigid tinsel]

on the linked pain thing

[tranquil harbor]

Mistakes were made

[timber osprey]

[keen shore]

Hehe what if one if them gets killed before the other and even though they’re in two different spots the other one INSTANTLY knows

[tranquil harbor]

Or they both die

[foggy lotus]

does one purposely fall down stairs so that the other feels the pain/lh /j

[compact shale]

I WARNED YOU ABOUT STAIRS I TOLD YOU DAWG

[timber osprey]

LOL

[frigid tinsel]

you might've seen this but for others who haven't

i actually thought of that. I had the idea that the king can manipulate light so well that they can "kill" the Elders by taking all their light in like the flick of a hand. in turn, they can revive any of the Elders by returning their light to them. the king holds this above them when their mind starts corrupting and they go power hungry.

I haven't written this yet but basically Vault Elder and the king physically separate the Valley Elder(s) and the king takes one of their light, "killing" them. the two consciousnesses running through the Valley Elder(s) stops momentarily, but only one resumes. the remaining one is terrified and charges down the Vault, screaming, and the king is so taken aback and genuinely scared because they've never heard anyone scream that way that they revive the other Valley Elder.

follow up: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[tranquil harbor]

fight all the time, but when one dies you meet someone who feels nothing else is worth living for in a violent way

[native shoal]

Just “You look at the corner of the doorframe, then to yourself sleeping. This will hurt you as much as it hurts yourself but you need to get revenge on yourself for eating the last slice of pizza.”

[foggy lotus]

is ur fic a tragicomedy

[hushed steeple]

I was just making outfits and doing photoshoots when all of a sudden something catches my eye. Look, look at it- HEY!!! look at the butterfree. Its body, its a diamond. Also isnt it interesting that beautifly here glows pink on our hands? We’ve got normal/yellow/white light, dull blue light(from dark stone), green light that’s probably some form of potatoe battery, all the pther magical lights that we have a decent but also not great understanding of, and now we have pink butterfly fairy light. If we dont solve these soon then the pile will grow so enormous we won’t be able to solve the simplest ones without having to mention and attempt to solve so many others. And thats just the lights.

[frigid tinsel]

I call it the “Valley Elder(s) angst fic” for a reason. But the king & Vault Elder’s experiment doesn’t happen in this one

[timber osprey]

OMG THAT DETAIL
Bro diamonds are all around in sky pls

[tranquil harbor]

Y'all really just be angst machines don't u

[frigid tinsel]

My grad class said to change the sad ending so there’s gonna be some relief. Like it was unanimous, so

[tranquil harbor]

What did you do

[compact shale]

We peeled too many layers of the onion

We can't un-onion the onion

[timber osprey]

Pfft

[frigid tinsel]

Had a thought that the butterflies turn pink because it’s been “charmed” and vibes with us

[foggy lotus]

i can be edgy when i want *looks at ln au *

[tranquil harbor]

I hate being edgy so half the time I'm in lore chat like 'I want no part of this, I'll end up crying'

[timber osprey]

The word "charm" goes well with the color pink tho

[hushed steeple]

Now that you mention it, I think that is what we need to solve first. What is up with the diamonds, the answer could potentially help with much of the sky lore and serve as a base plate to the entirety of the lore. At least thats what I believe could happen.

[frigid tinsel]

When I get back to my laptop I’ll show some relief.
The fic isn’t a sad fest, it’s just an emotional journey, a struggle

[keen shore]

I can sort of see the diamond but the butterfly silhouette is Not detailed at all so I can’t tell whether it’s a head/wing shape or a diamond “”eye”” [I am still a little skeptical of them being eyes, post for another day] both are interesting though….

About the butterfly turning pink, I don’t know why that happens. Yellow isn’t a component to make the color pink as far as I know, and pink light isn’t really a thing except for the leaves on the day of bloom tree leaves. Might just be a visual cue of “this guy landed on you” but not really sure other than that ??

[foggy lotus]

if i had a nickel every time we talk abt something thats somehow related to Al
i’d have 2 nickels
which isnt a lot but strange it happened twice

[compact shale]

Maybe the answer might be connected to the Bloom tree? Actually idk because events have dubious canonicity

[frigid tinsel]

Me or artificial intelligence?

[compact shale]

I MADE MY CLASSMATES READ MY VALLEY ELDERS FIC (NOT CLICKBAIT)

[timber osprey]

Well, I honestly think it's probably an aesthetic choice since it's part of the sky kingdom's culture

But who knows, it could have some meaning behind it

[frigid tinsel]

It’s just odd cos diamonds show up everywhere

[hushed steeple]

So the diamond seems to be the body based on how the wongs are attached to it, or more specifically, as far as we can tell that is the entirety of the body, head, and eyes. Now the eyes thing, light creature eyes are white and usually glow but it doesnt seem like they have to glow. They are always surrounded by an orange/gold color and tend to be on the top of the head. As for the charmed thing, I honestly dont know, though I will say, its a very similar color to manta tethers.

[timber osprey]

What, is it odd that rectangles r everywhere irl?

Just wish that we could get more answers behind the aesthetic choices

[rapid arrow]

Well we know about the diamonds powering stuff in the kingdom

Plus on our little light areas there’s this

Is it an eye? Is it emulating that we were made with elements of the power diamonds. In some sort of way I think we’re connected to the power diamonds

[timber osprey]

True tho, maybe that's why diamonds r specifically used for powering stuff up

[hushed steeple]

I think the diamond thing has something more to do with an ability or maybe even light, rather than having a specific meaning. Though the ancestors could have adopted the shape with a meaning. But since we can see it on light creatures I dont think it would signify any sort of meaning.

[hushed steeple]

This was meant to be a reply to a previous comment

[rapid arrow]

We also know they were harvested. So there’s another thing?

[sharp lichen]

Calculations and stuff! I can explain

[native shoal]

I think the butterfly body being a diamond is a technical limitation

[undone trench]

I though that finding lore of sky would be more on the lines of " hm yes, as we can see in this mural the isle elder does look like this " and not " if we throw a Crab from that mountain we can see how long it takes to fall and then we'll have a gravity " a surprise for sure but a welcome one,

[tranquil harbor]

The point of lore chat is not to be 'correct/right' but to theorize and enjoy ourselves.

[timber osprey]

@hushed steeple ayo just read ur bio, can I know more on that theory of urs

[hushed steeple]

Wait, do you think that the diamonds are able to contain light. If you noticed during the 5th abyss quest, we light the manta‘s eyes. And we light diamonds to open doors and what not. We even have that stone thing on our chest thats full of light and has diamond shapes around it. Where as all the floating light orbs dont seem to be powering things at the moment, they either do nothing like lightseekers, or they have a special ability like enchantment.

[timber osprey]

Omg good point
Bro what if the resources we've been collecting throughout the season were meant for that purpose: containing light?

[undone trench]

Wait manta have eyes ? I think the diamonds being what we use to open doors and things like that, I see it as, the elders and spirits saw that the light creatures have diamonds on them, so they thought that diamonds and light are related, and so they made the light buttons in the shape of the diamonds,

[timber osprey]

Well, how else would mantas be able to see where they fly lmaoo

[frigid tinsel]

follow Lapis's thoughts on the diamond shapes/octahedron almost omnipresent in Sky having a possible spiritual meaning, convo starting here: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[hushed steeple]

So basically, memory mantas lack many details that other mantas have, such as little flaps on the wings, the fins running all the way down the tail, and the three dimensional aspect that mantas thpically have. They also flap slower and are very obviously running on a set trail/path. they honk back far too often, real mangas do it a bit, but not a lot, memory mantas do it nearly all the time. And their design is wierd, transparent with Swirling lights in them? Odd, and not to mention that the design around their eye is nearly an exact replica to the design found on golden pots and many other gold items from the ancestors. And since vault is made up of projections, its far more possible that they are projections, or at least artificial. They look bad, they act dead, and they dont acknowledge us other than a fake honk.

[tranquil harbor]

I raise you: Vault mantas are a specially bred domestic variant. Like koi fish or dogs

[hushed steeple]

im sorry if i seem rude but ahem ancestor made gold design, moves on a set path and never deviates from it, looks like no other manta in existance, they cant be like jelly fish or light blooms because these manta have diamond shapes not circles, are only found in vault of which is probably made up of projections and illusions, and they even appear out of nothing.

[tranquil harbor]

You wanna fite me under the valley's ice lake, bring it! /jk

[undone trench]

Don't one of those vault manta appears from a pile of bones ? Maybe a simpler explanation could be just, Ghost Manta

[hushed steeple]

I’m sending in all my mantas, whales, wurtles, and more because I already fought you and won.

[tranquil harbor]

I actually do have some evidence for my own theory, but I'm actually feeling too lazy to really talk about it Your theory is neat tho

[hushed steeple]

No, you honk at the bones and they appear from nowhere above you. Also the bones dont actually fit mantas. Also we saw a spirit manta in the treasure reef, and it looks like a grey blue manta.

[undone trench]

Oh yeah that part- I forgot about how they would actually fit in the manta,

[hushed steeple]

Yes, the ancestors could have come along and did religious practices with it, but that doesnt mean that the diamond shape is exclusive to just that theory, it can also contain light.

[undone trench]

Now that you brought up the vault manta, I got some questions, what are those bones then, what is the large creature that carries the lamps on its back, why does the higher floors of vault and the basement section look like it's in a limbo with some walls far behind,

[boreal nebula]

I think darkstones could be an outdated concept which maybe haven't made into the game

I don't think we really see one of those, like for example anything resembling a darkstone crown that slowly grew on king head and corrupted.

Imho a more suitable name could be lightcrystals (cause Tearful Spirit implies she is a Light Miner) so crystals of pure solidified light, like those Commodore and Abyss Guide collect, were refined into Prisms (for multipurposes like those we simply call Diamonds or those game call Resources)

But maybe actual Darkstone will be seen in the future as another stage of a polluted or corrupted or faulty Diamond
Lightcrystals -> Prism/Resources-> Corrupted into Darkstone

There are Red Crystals, but those seems more like corrupted light crystals to me. For example in Eden, those Red Crystals seems""alive"" and retracting when we come near then till too close and pushed away (as it they are in agony and try not to hurt us, but their pain turnd into anger than backlash against us)
Another reason why I think regularc crystals are Light crystals, that first skykid statues has lightcrystals exiting it was petrified blood from a a blast

[hushed steeple]

So I havent investigated the bones enough to know what they are yet. The giant one is also a fraudulant manta, so far out of what ive learned that shape is kind of impossible for mantas. And the limbo looking places are most likly created by projections or illusions.

[frigid tinsel]

Lapis was explaining that the shape had spiritual purposes, yet had metaphysical properties that gave it practical usage

[undone trench]

I'm sorry if it's too many questions but if I may ask so, how did you discovered about the limbo being a projection or illusion, was it by a mural of sorts ? I'm quite interested in checking it out myself,

[tranquil harbor]

There is no such thing as too many questions in lore chat! Just keep in mind the lore is 'vague' so we don't have many 'canon' answers

[frigid tinsel]

it's a theory that hasn't really been tested, just developed on musings.

Vault being an illusion or a projection is based on the unreality of the environment. after the third floor, things seem to come apart and get spacey. Vault also has purple light, which is thought to affect reality.

other explanations reason that Vault is a liminal space where various planes of reality intersect.

[soft moat]

What?!

[hushed steeple]

That is actually very reasonable, and makes sense. So could darkness be limited to plants and the suposed unseen crystals(if they are still canon anyways). If darkness is simply a parasitic entity of sorts, then that explains why it attached itself to the krill and crabs. and that means we’ve been wrong about light crystals being such a big cause in the darkness spreading.

[hushed steeple]

As I was investigating vault I noticed how the lanterns seem to project things with light, such as the constellations that appear as we ride the elevator. And also as you reach the summit a blue dome roof simply appears above you. Also the fact that the entire tower crumbles into a never emding void between 2nd and 3rd floor is unreasonable even for sky. Then I noticed the lanterns that were bulit inside of the walls in the basement, specifically the ones of the stone block belonging grandpa is seated on. And the lantern design is something interesting itself, open on all sides but one where a blue diamond sits, and out of it comes blue light rays once the lantern is lit.

[undone trench]

Oh that's interesting, I never looked that deep into those lanterns, I only thought it was some sort of textbooks, but what you said makes more sense

[keen shore]

I sort of agree but believe darkstones don’t have the tons of darkness/corrupting powers most people assume first off the bat. Instead, they have a tiny bit - enough to hold light inside and keep it (which is what darkness does). Bigger ones have more darkness and are more dangerous. After a certain period of time or under certain circumstances maybe, the darkness inside corrupts all the light and boom, corrupted darkstone

The darkness isn’t really the “main” part of it if that makes sense, the light the darkness is able to trap gives it most of its power

[boreal nebula]

Maybe they are paassuvely the reason of dadrness spreading, like attracting darkness

More lightusing technologies attracted morr dust and more krills, like IRL food waste in garbage can are not the fault of animals invading urbans areas, more like an incentive to drawn their attention as a good source of sustainment.

Imagine if Krills were simply hunting light creatures in the seas. Then a yummy bouffet of light technology appears and it changed their habitat and habits

[hushed steeple]

Wait are you saying theres a possibility that krill werent originally light creatures? Or am i just assuming. Also, yes that sounds a feels perfect and right.

[keen shore]

My personal headcanon on memory mantas [probably not true but funny to imagine]

The jellyfish are many organisms pretending to be one (maybe the light globules are the actual organisms?) and memory mantas are what happens when they get formed into/pretend to be a manta. Essentially, they are a bunch of tiny glowy things in a trench coat trying to be mantas but they’re REALLY bad at it

[sharp lichen]

Here’s something I found: V, pC, and A we already have, and all we need is to figure out the m (mass) of the object to figure out the g (gravity).

[keen shore]

Ah, the only thing worse than normal math: math where the numbers get replaced by letters

[sharp lichen]

All we need to do is to find the mass of either a skykid or a crab, and the gravitational force could be figured out

[hushed steeple]

I honestly kinda wish that were true now. Sadly they arent even alive.

[foggy lotus]

someone smarter than me explain

[sharp lichen]

Here, what does this mean? Could this help us?

[keen shore]

Memory mantas are hard to pick apart because it’s difficult to tell whether them acting weird is because they ARE naturally weird or because vault is just Like That. For all we know, they could be normal mantas but vaults illusion weirdness makes us mix them up with how jellyfish work in our minds and then they start acting like that

I’d love to be able to find/study them outside of vault for this reason alone, it is weird that they’re located there and nowhere else

[boreal nebula]

I wished to see some proof of them being corrupted and how they changed, but for now I consider them krill as mostly predators as now (even same shape), but with dust on them they got angrier and frenzier for food, especially big light creatures

A bit like some crabs aren't aggressive/corrupted

[boreal nebula]

Wait, what topis is this?

What Vt , A and "ro"C stand for?

[hushed steeple]

If they are artificial and are simply projections then its not actually wierd that they are only located in vault. Also, I asked Ash and they didnt onow themselves so currently we’re on our own for this. But to me it doesnt seem confusing because my brain has compared them to other things ive seen and hence my brain has stated that its not real. My brain could be wrong, but everything ive found has pointed to them being frauds.

[keen shore]

Drag force = velocity^2
This means velocity and drag are … uh, what’s the phrase. Directly related? One goes up, the other goes up. One goes down, the other goes down, so on. Drag increases faster because it’s the velocity squared and quickly becomes equal to the objects weight. Once that happens, the acceleration stops and the object falls at a constant speed (velocity because direction is important)

[frigid tinsel]

Vault is just Like That
from my main fic

[hushed steeple]

Directly proportional to one another, I beilieve.

Why are we talking about math?

[tranquil harbor]

Alasdair gets around the censor by just posting a screenshot

[frigid tinsel]

[tranquil harbor]

that guide's 'name' is super censored

[frigid tinsel]

don't mention it

[keen shore]

If they’re artificial [as in, someone has to go out of their way to create them, but they’re not projections - more like selective breeding or machines almsot] it’s a bit weird that they’re not outside of vault because that means they could be almsot anywhere without illusion magic, they’d just have to be created first. [if that makes sense]

If they’re illusions entirely then it makes sense that they’re stuck in vault, although this implies that they’re not real at all in the first place and it’s just Vault Being Like That again

[frigid tinsel]

there's one cosmic manta in Starlight Desert

[hushed steeple]

Ok, Im heading out because this is becoming a bunch of physics and I just got out of class like at 3:00 pm central time so i cant think anymore. Byeeeeeeee!!!

[keen shore]

Starlight desert still technically counts as Vault Weirdness By Proximity because it’s right there, it’s purple, and it’s weird

[tranquil harbor]

The way 'selective breeding' gets around the 'they should be other places' is that their domesticated nature means they might not survive well outside of a safe, domestic setting. Like letting your parakeet outside your house.

Or cows/chickens I suppose

[undone trench]

Being an illusion or holograph of sorts could also explain all the vanishing and appearing they do, on the rise up to the vault summit for example

[tranquil harbor]

or they have a camouflage ability

[frigid tinsel]

if the Vault is a liminal space, the cosmic creatures could move from one plane of existence to another, being invisible or visible to us stuck on one plane

[hushed steeple]

The one in the star light desert it’s outside so I just think they are just a variant who lives there

[desert haven]

I have had a dystopia earth theory for a long time. That it is earth... just in a distant future

[hushed steeple]

And what if instead of ilusion are spirits?

[keen shore]

Manta spirits seem to look more like the manta dude in the fifth abyss quest / the one who gives us diving ability though. Like normal mantas but not quite There and you turned their brightness up

[hushed steeple]

Yeah you are right, now I’m more confused xd

[undone trench]

I'll go check on vault to see if I can find anything that relates with those kind of manta

[tulip aspen]

id like that latter explanation!

[tulip aspen]

daaaang this is really still ongoing huh lmao

[undone trench]

Couldn't find anything relating to those manta but I noticed something else

[tulip aspen]

do tell!

[undone trench]

I'll go grab more comparison pictures of it cuz last time I was in a rush and couldn't get good ones,

Oh wait nvm, compared the 2 things and, yeah they're quite different, whoops

[sharp lichen]

Vt is velocity, A is surface Area and C is the drag coefficient

We’re so close to figuring it out

[boreal nebula]

And the "ro" ≈ p ?

[boreal nebula]

Made a tiny diagram of my theory

[carmine garnet]

I kind of wanna make a fan season mostly taking place in Eden and before the fall of the kingdom, and each quest causes it to fall more

[undone trench]

I wonder what these bones belong to, they look to be from different species, and the ones at gw seem to have skulls near it, maybe it was from something resembling the leviathan and a light creature like the whales

[tulip aspen]

yepyep!

[foggy lotus]

prolly

[tulip aspen]

i genuinely love how passionate you are about this, this is awesome

[undone trench]

I first thought that those bones where from the whale like we see on forest but, the ribs on those bend upwards and the things going off the spine seem to have those triangles near the base and point foward, the ones at gw have the triangles at the base but pointing backwards, and the ones at vault have the triangles at the middle section

[carmine garnet]

Could they possible be the light based creatures we see in the sea in the sanctuary islands? Or in the hidden forest?

[undone trench]

It being the bones of the thing at sanctuary sea could be a possibility for the vault ones because the skull near the gw one doesn't match, but I haven't gotten a look at the sanctuary one close up, but I wonder how that thing managed to get on vault,

[carmine garnet]

I’m going to take some pictures of the creature from the islands. Give me a second

[tulip aspen]

yall.

i was really weirded out on why its just random fun facts about cannoneer when they were put last for some reason, creating a lot of tension on them

i thought they were gonna release some lore teasing inside the card of the cannoneer like they did for flight guide, but it seemed like there wasnt much actual info to be gleaned

but-
"likes embellishing stories".
embellishment means exaggerating a story beyond what actually happened

what if that means the story... we just went through

[undone trench]

I see, if the light leviathan we see at sanctuary had some spikes on its back it would make it quite obvious they're the same, but I'll check with gw skull to see if it looks alike

[sharp lichen]

I’d assume so

[tulip aspen]

@frigid tinsel, is this too much of a stretch to consider?
cos yea it doesnt mean anything for now, but maybe we can consider it?

[compact shale]

If you compare Cannoneer's card to everyone else, you'll notice two things

1. Their name is never mentioned
2. Their background is above water, unlike the others which are below water

[undone trench]

I went to check and, they don't look like the one the light leviathan has

[carmine garnet]

I can’t seemed to find the giant abyss krill that’s underwater

[undone trench]

Have you completed the 5th quest yet by any chance?

[formal skiff]

Theirs is funky because all the other spirits are just them in disguise and they don’t want to give away too much about their actual self in case we uncover them /j

[frigid tinsel]

it more likely means that when Cannoner is recounting stories, they're lying a bit. say if Cannoneer were to share an anecdote about the events in the last quest,|| they could switch it up so that they saved us rather than us saying them||.

"embellish" has a connotation of not outright lying, but making things seem more exciting or in one's own favor than how it actually played out, but there will always be an element of truth to it.

the events of the last quest happened. how the story is recounted can change but the events happened as they did and can't be changed

[carmine garnet]

I’ve done it. Yes but their was suppose to be another one that floated outside and around, give players a good jumpscare/heart attack

[undone trench]

I think they removed that one and moved it to where the original one is, so if you actually want to see it now I'm pretty sure it's down in that abyss still,

[tulip aspen]

oh okay

well i tried.

character cards meh, no lore in sight

[frigid tinsel]

getting tidbits of the spirits' character is lore

[compact shale]

What is TGC trying to do?
They don't want to say Cannoneer's name in the infocards for some reason

[tulip aspen]

ehhhhhhhhhhhhh

[frigid tinsel]

maybe Cannoneer wasn't even a cannoneer

[tranquil harbor]

They want deniable plausibility that Cannoneer was actually a cannoneer, so parents can't get fussy about weapons /jk

[frigid tinsel]

gestures towards harpoon gun

[tranquil harbor]

they've changed memories before

[compact shale]

To that I say

One of the lines I've had for Cannoneer even before the card is

"HARPOONS ARE JUST TINY CANNONS!"

[formal skiff]

Agreed! It might not be a major lore bomb, but it’s fun and I like it, and any info about world & characters is lore.

[compact shale]

It's lore to the Angloneer shippers at least

[frigid tinsel]

in my fic, Cannoneer tries to kill Boatswain twice

[tranquil harbor]

On purpose?

[carmine garnet]

We also have this fish creature for a possibly on bones (like bigger?)

[keen shore]

This idea, but each quest is trying to stop the corruption and accidentally making it worse

[tranquil harbor]

Or like 'Cannoneer, Boatswain is still in the way!"
Cannoneer: "Eh, he either moves or his death is a sacrifice I am willing to make"

[undone trench]

I do think if that would be the thing those bones belong to, those spikes that come from the spine would be poking out in some form, either that or the bones are Really small

[carmine garnet]

Yeah was just swimming around and found him and it just seemed family. Do you think it’s possible that some of the bones in the wasteland belong to fallen krill?

[undone trench]

Maybe there's some krills remains laying around gw, but the ones I look at have a more whide skull and two big eyes holes, while krills have a pointy-er face with 1 visible red glowy eye and 8~9 hidden ones,

[frigid tinsel]

first time cos they had a head injury and was picked up Commodore, Boatswain, and co. Boatswain was in the room when they woke up and, not recognizing their surroundings, panicked, and attacked Boatswain with a shard of their own broken mask.

second time was years later, meeting Boatswain again after they had "betrayed" Cannoneer and Commodore. blood was spilled that day

[tranquil harbor]

You know how to bring the pain

[keen shore]

Oooh is the “betrayed” part a variation on the idea I had about everyone else thinking they ran away instead of yknow. Getting drowned

Also, everyone knows that attempted murder is a bonding experience /j

[carmine garnet]

Maybe some of the ribs then? Or maybe they could be creatures of light that the kingdom used to fight and went extentict while fighting to protect the light?

[frigid tinsel]

Cannoneer: friendly punches Boatswain in the back. ayo, remember that time I tried to kill you?
Boatswain: which time?
Cannoneer: hahahhaa good times

[undone trench]

Some kind of extinct creature is the most reasonable lead so far, we got nothing that resembles that, the closest thing I can think of is the whales face

[hushed steeple]

Theres turtle scull

[carmine garnet]

I mean to be fair we have a kingdom in ruin so it’s not impossible that the creature isn’t around anymore

Also what are you thoughts about the kingdom before it’s ruin?

[keen shore]

Well. It sure was a kingdom. Big, pretty, had people in it! I’m not quite sure what this question is asking, to be honest

[compact shale]

Do you think Boatswain has had multiple bouts of amnesia from all the really bad bumbles?

[carmine garnet]

Like thinking of the ruin areas in sky, how would they be different? Like would the golden wasteland be a sea considering how many boats and docks their are?

[sharp lichen]

I always though that the Golden Wasteland was a Marsh

[stable veldt]

I woke up, now we be talking about gravity AND whales. Nice

[lime sinew]

Hi

[formal skiff]

Hi

[stable veldt]

An idea on how we can get Skid's mass: When they walk around the stone jars they made this clonking sound. While it's probably just a sound effect, how about we slightly push it and instead with it, we can determine what the weight by the loudness and circumstances for a hollow stone to make that noise

But imo, stone jars that thick shouldn't be making sounds like that, the sound effect sounds more like a wooden container being clonked rather than a stone one

[carmine garnet]

I think it’s implying the sky kids are made out of some sort of stone, which can also connect to Eden?

[stable veldt]

It's already a long running theory Skids are made out of clay/earth, so it might not be too farfetched stone-stone makes the noise

[copper saffron]

Oh my gosh, i went to sleep and woke up and yall are still discussing the density of sky kids

[tranquil harbor]

Lore chat can not be stopped

[stable veldt]

sky lore is my passion

[keen shore]

Sky lore is my passion (as long as math is not involved)

[stable veldt]

I'm that scientific skid that's willing to open a book or two about physics. IN short: Math skid

[carmine garnet]

The sky kids could possible by hollow? It’s why the gem of light shows through the chest, same with the eyes

Ok, so maybe their outward appearance is an effect of light? Which is why when you run out of winged light you go back to the blank state?

[stable veldt]

We got a whole doc about it, though idk who holds the link 🤔

[compact shale]

Cosmetics are generally thought to be made of light, except for possibly the rebreathers and the chibi mask because they do special stuff

@stable veldt Alasdair's working on it

[tulip aspen]

yep, theres a common consensus that they are hollow, and that all cosmetics are projections of Light

here's an anatomy doc for skykids and ancestors, but it's currently messed up under plans for renovations in my hopes i can prove to everyone that ancestors are also clayshelled (the term we use for the hollow theory)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1thcKlrpEPO87cz0hgM5rbMZilC97-2chVEe7uC7WI0c/edit?usp=drivesdk

alasdair is also coming out someday with a doc specifically for skykid anatomy, do be sure to stay tuned for that and the update to my doc!

[keen shore]

This is the text equivalent of making a salt circle on the ground to summon jam

[stable veldt]

I feel like ancestors ain't hollow, they're just made with more clay/basically more down to earth than skids. It's just us that's being a living "breathing" containers of light

[frigid tinsel]

My Working Theory on the Composition of a Skykid
–clothing, hair, masks & other cosmetics made of light.
–a humanoid physical shell made of some magic-induced earthen material (i.e. clay, stone, ash, charcoal, meteorite) that has a hole in the chest and eyes.
–this hollow shell is full of light, such as winged light and neutral light.
–their cape, a manifestation of winged light.
–their flame, manifesting as the light in the hole in their chest and held outside their bodies via a red candle.
–their soul, appearing as a blue sparkle.

[stable veldt]

Also, is there any chance some ancestors in the past have premonition/prophecy/depiction about skids? Aside form the skid constellation and a "close" equivalent to angels, i see none other

[compact shale]

Prophecy predicted something about the "protokid" aka the Prince

or so some think

[carmine garnet]

This does bring up something, do sprits and expression uses are just sky kids spirits that have yet to be reborn? And need their body broken to move on!

[keen shore]

I mean… Maybe.., have been playing with the idea that prophecy is Isle’s weird power thing. Like there equivalent of vault weirdness

[tulip aspen]

yee that's what my doc says

keep in mind tho, ancestors still contain Light even while alive, all beings of Light do

they just have so little of it it renders them very mortal

[tulip aspen]

yepyep!
but other than that, no, there is no mention of childlike saviours of the kingdom being sent by the Light, except for the single mural showing you, in the intro tunnel

[compact shale]

how have we never wondered who made that

[frigid tinsel]

the Chosen One (the being who completes the trials) in the Cave of Prophecy murals has the same depiction of skykids in the introductions cave. the prophets may not have known that was a skykid at the time of drawing those murals, but it's often thought that Chosen One is a skykid or a proto-skykid

[stable veldt]

That's the only skid-related mural I'm aware, aside form the intro one too. Other than both of those, nothing much written/drawn/mentioned

[keen shore]

Those murals ARE weird. There’s two reasons for it to be there

1. older skykid telling you how things work. Possible but weird considering the speaking/text accompanying it [HELP my cat keeps kicking my hand as I type this]
2. Some isle spirits or the elder could just see the future

[sharp lichen]

Here’s my video that covers the height that Bird fell yesterday, you can see how much chibis/moths the height is

[tulip aspen]

mostly because it's part of the intro

seeing as it's basically a slideshow the Voice uses to make it's case, we could even say the Voice technically made it, who knows

its just irrelevant to think much about the canonicity of the intro tunnel, and moreso relevant to think about the story it's trying yo convey

[stable veldt]

Oof i have to download

[compact shale]

I guess so

the intro tunnel is Voicey's whiteboard /j

[stable veldt]

I can't open this in my PC nor phone. Wrong formatting? Try to import is as mp4

[tulip aspen]

first idea sounds great, reinforces the themes many other investments we've made in the past and following in the footsteps of every other child's migration to Eden, as per Vela's imprint theory

also rip to the cat problem

[keen shore]

The Horrible Creature (he has no remorse)

[compact shale]

just make sure he doesn't take over your keyboard and your next message is "ajs;dhfhnglaiwantunafoolfahdshhan gnksahg"

[tulip aspen]

as someone who is dirty and dusty from melting steel at work, and then trudges into a classroom where this old geezer scrawls his calculations and predictions on a literal old timey chalkboard, this hits way too hard

[compact shale]

Imagine if Megabird sent birds to draw the mural

Some Archeaologist: You're telling me a BIRD wrote these MURALS?

[carmine garnet]

Ok. Is it possible that elders are from the kingdom, and have lived the longest time?

[frigid tinsel]

the Elders are ancient

[sharp lichen]

Let me try again:

[stable veldt]

groan
Too lazy to ss, but if i must.. for science...

[keen shore]

I am actually going to go against the grain and go for the second option here.

• Isle already has at least four people who can see the future, I mean… The fact that there’s already a precedent for this idea is a big part of why I’m leaning towards it honestly
• murals match general style of other isle murals from same time period, only differing in color (blue instead of white)
• Isle doesn’t have a Weird Realm Thing that’s been accounted for yet and we don’t know how Red Light (which was probably either located here or maybe even given to the king) works

[sharp lichen]

I found a different strategy of finding the height-

[stable veldt]

Do tell

[rigid mural]

Wym by wierd realm thing ?

[sharp lichen]

Here’s a crude representation of how I do it: we know where bird Fell, so if we multiply our height until we get to that distance, we can convert it to real world heights

[keen shore]

You know like - how vault has all the weird possibly illusionary stuff, the other realms are accounted for in the prophecy murals where their elders are given lights, so we can assume their thing is those (like blue light -> constant rain in forest for example). Isle would be the only one unaccounted for, nothing is immediately noticeable and it’s not in the murals

Sorry if this doesn’t make sense - explanation part of brain is temporarily shut off and will be back in 1-3 business days

[hushed lichen]

Rolling over here from QnA
Does anyone know what these are or what they do (or may have done, if they're like the forest eggs etc)

[stable veldt]

What was the height on one wing flap? I only rember the speed, not the height

[sharp lichen]

I used to think it was about 94 inches per flap, though I do need to test it

[frigid tinsel]

it's thought to be a map of Prairie

[rigid mural]

If red = void
Do you think the isle being empty might be that ?
A once lush realm returned to the state of a blank canvas

[stable veldt]

If it's actually 94 inches (~2.39 metres), 2,4m x 5 = 12 metres of height between island... which is absurdly very very very low...

[tulip aspen]

for the second one, what if we had a season about those people in the prophecy cave who learned from the prophets

they had a village in isle that's now drowned in the shallows of the shore, but you can find prophecies that the prophets wrote for them scrawled across the walls of the village, other places in isle, ect

but most importantly the season quests would show flashbacks of the eden explosions happening in the far distance, and this one scribe of the prophets trying to unearth a hidden prophecy found in bits and pieces across the land or even the realms, in order to know where to create the message foretold to instruct the angels that would save them all

just imagine the last scene of the season; darkness particles are raining down across the kingdom, and the scribe has been corrupted.
now knowing the full message to be told to the angels, he has to know where they will arrive

you'll go from cave to cave across isle watching him get more and more frustrated and damaged as he can't figure out where he must go, and then he finds the cave furthest out to shore, and climbs the mountain up to that opening ledge

with his last energy he moves through the cave creating the message, and falls to the floor in exhaustion in that pond next to where he created the picture of you

the flashback ends and it shows you and the guide standing back where you get quests from him, and all the other scribes appear and put an arm on him, and they all hug each other, thank you, then finally ascend

[rigid mural]

@hushed lichen
Remnant from light awaits actually, sparrow constellation.
You can find the same in the citadel, where it triggered a quest involving the snow bird at the entrance

[carmine garnet]

I do have a question. Do all the cave painting have to be prophetic? I mean most of the time in real life they were just based on what people saw and stories to explain stuff

[keen shore]

Hmmm maybe…
I did have a small thought that isle was like that naturally and it was only a grassland at some point because of help from green light, but that went to prairie, so probably untrue.

That could be Isle’s thing (just… emptiness…) especially with how little ruins there are, but it still gets me as a bit weird because all the other lights have like quantifiable powerful effects if that makes sense. You can mess with earth and nature using green light. You can mess with fire using orange light, and so on. What do you use the red light to manipulate? It can’t be just emptiness, right?

[compact shale]

dark matter /j

[frigid tinsel]

it's thought that the Cave of Prophecy murals are prophetic because... well there's prophets in there and it's the Cave of Prophecy.

other murals seem to depict where things go and what happened in the past.

[sharp lichen]

But there are updrafts, which distort the results

[stable veldt]

man these atmospheric stuff do be messing with our research

[tulip aspen]

we dont know if theyre all prophetic, the only one we are sure about is cave of prophecy, and even the intro might not even be 'canon' if thay makes sense

[frigid tinsel]

i detect Jam about to explode about the intros

[carmine garnet]

Tho it might not also be clear? Most prophecies and stuff always talk have vague language or not clearly understanding it. Tho their is that 🤷‍♀️
I’m just wondering where to find inspiration for my fan season cause I wanna try to work with lore lol

[hushed lichen]

So much past content i don't know about, wow! i was curious about the random snowbird too so you answered several questions i had at once ty! ☺️✨

[sharp lichen]

Here, let me measure it

[sharp lichen]

I counted 23 chibis, which is a slightly better 15 meters. This is strange

[rigid mural]

I got two ideas.

Void light could have helped with terraforming, or whatever the ancestors could have needed to make a "blank canvas" to rearrange how they see fit. Isle's theme of birth and being new to the realms would fit that; a power to start anew perhaps.
Could have helped the cycle of rebirth by removing traces of a past life maybe ?

Or maybe void light is more litteral and could be used to remove things; I suck at physics but removing air speed from under a boat could help it float, dragged by a manta. I don't really like this idea but feel free to take and run with it.

[stable veldt]

Is there a chance it's biased because of the fact before we flap it went down for a moment before it flaps again?

[frigid tinsel]

prophecies don't have to be vague. this is fiction, the devs could do whatever they want.
also the Cave of Prophecy murals are already vague

[sharp lichen]

I tried to make sure I prevented that, but we absolutely need repeated experiments

[carmine garnet]

True.

[stable veldt]

I'm gonna try to flap alone in sanc using chibi moth. See what I can get

[sharp lichen]

I tested it using Bird’s moth height, (and a very crude system), and I got 14.478 meters

[stable veldt]

I am OMEGA STUPID. It was 7 flaps. 94 inch -> 2,4m. 2,4m x 7 = 16.8 metres
My krill brain nae nae thinks on vid it was 5 flaps. It's clearly 7 in chibi

[formal skiff]

Dang, we’re heckin’ powerful

[compact shale]

THAT'S TALLER THAN A REGULAR SKYKID!

[formal skiff]

Ok we have got way too many significant digits here. (meaning that your number claims more precision than you can actually be sure of) I’d knock that down to 14 meters with maybe a meter or two of uncertainty.

[sharp lichen]

Literally everything here has a meter or two (or three) of uncertainty

[formal skiff]

True. Anyway I’d call that 14 ± 3 then.

[keen shore]

Oooh hmmm … first idea is neat! I am going to think on it for a bit before answering fully, if that’s okay <3

The idea of it just being used to remove stuff is hilarious though. Imagining isle elder trying to delete the king

[compact shale]

King deleting one of the Valley elders

[formal skiff]

Isle Elder’s plan: King —> King

[carmine garnet]

Don’t know where I saw this…but I’m using this for my fan season.
Cause I mean we don’t see any hint of the king in game, we just know their was a kingdom

[keen shore]

That’s why they got isolated from everyone else. Tried to delete them All

[stable veldt]

Friend does not affect skids flapping/adding height. Still on 7, if not overshoot a bit. Safe to assume estimation around 14-16 metres

[sharp lichen]

Great! This means that the speed which Bird fell from that cliff is about 3.1 to 3.5 mph

[copper saffron]

Ok guys ill come back in a couple hours to see if yall are still calculating the density of skykids
But have you considered that the gravity may be different?

[sharp lichen]

It’s quite higher than my previous 2 estimations, but it could be due to other factors

[stable veldt]

this means skids falls faster than early estimation, yeah. From 3.4 km/h to 5.47/5.5 km/h

[sharp lichen]

This would imply that Sky’s world isn’t spherical, which would have disastrous implications

[stable veldt]

Just for a moment, those flat earth naysayers was true

[carmine garnet]

Especially considering clouds (which are normally just water vapor) push you up into the air? Could it be clouds are different as well? Maybe light partials?

[keen shore]

Oh my god THATS where the turtles are

[copper saffron]

Not necessarily, planets can be round and still have different gravities

[copper saffron]

Clouds can recharge you so i'd assume so, they definitely arent normal clouds

[sharp lichen]

Wait, I thought you mean different gravities on different parts of the world

https://www.google.com/amp/crosstalk.cell.com/blog/seven-ways-to-prove-earth-is-round%3Fhs_amp%3Dtrue

[copper saffron]

The locations all seem to have the same gravity which makes sense from a game perspective too, programming different gravities is hard.
Lmao one of the games i play has the same gravity on all locations, which are supposed to be different planets, with no canon explanation, so id just assume space magic

[formal skiff]

Awesome!!! We did a numbers!!!!
So uh what do we do with that

[stable veldt]

This probably confirms 1 or 2 things:
Gravity around sky is the same, the only other thing that may affect is the updrift. Any chance the one we have in sanc is higher because of the updrift? Sanc is pretty float-y

[sharp lichen]

It’ll be good to do the same thing we did, but in different locations to confirm this

[formal skiff]

Uggghhh updraft

[sharp lichen]

It’ll also be good to do it with crabs, and we need to find the mass of either crabs or Skykids if we want the easy way out

[stable veldt]

I've proposed to measure through sound effects, though I question the accuracy of the SFX in this game, especially with the jars n stuff, therefore can't makea good estimation

[soft timber]

You just open your cape and you'll float so far up in Sanc

[frigid tinsel]

kill than google amp link or so help me /lh

[formal skiff]

Oh Megabird how on earth wherever this is are we supposed to find MASSES OF THINGS IN A VIDEO GAME???

[sharp lichen]

WE WILL TRY! For now, that is not our priority.

[stable veldt]

To elaborate more: we need to see how many force needed to make such sound. Therefore it's a pretty safe way to find weight in a sense

[formal skiff]

Ok what’s the priority? Bird reporting for Crazy Sky Physics duty!

[sharp lichen]

Tricky! You use sounds to find the weight of objects.

Bird! You will use crabs to measure their speed.

I will assist you with both, but it’ll be good to get help

[stable veldt]

I'll explain on how we can find weight through SFX:
First, we know that when traversing through multiple things, we make different SFX, depending on what kind of environment we're placing our foot on. Splah on water, grass on plains, you know the drill.

What piqued me is the sound of skids walking through those stone jars to make that "clonk" noise. We can make a rough estimation on the weight of the skids if we know how many force needed for us to make almost the exact same voice on those jars. Since the skids step on it, we can safely assume the force came from the skid's weight

[formal skiff]

do we need to get on Sky together to have one person drop a crab while the other watches and records?

[sharp lichen]

Probably!

@stable veldt Is there a possible way to have crabs step on stone jars!

[formal skiff]

Ok lemme know when you need me and what I should do

[stable veldt]

Golden wasteland is one of the good bets for me to test on, especially the shipwreck

Pretty sure some devs here lurking around, sat on their couch, sipping coffee. The SFX guy.

"Yep. What have I done?"

When all of this done, someone should assemble the docs:
"The great gravity debate"

[formal skiff]

Pretty sure that 75% of the time when the devs open this channel, they close it again out of fear for their and our sanity

[keen shore]

We Are the corrupting force in sky

[stable veldt]

Currently charging my phone. When it's done, I'll zoom to GW and test out. Chibi will be my character + measurement, since it's consistent

If I can't get crabs on jars in GW, other best bet is to go to Prarie/hidden forest's grotto to step on a lot of jars

[carmine garnet]

This is what they get for not giving us a story, we shall make our own and understand it!

[compact shale]

Fanfic has infinite power~

...except that Skycord doesn't have a fanfic channel

[keen shore]

I want to know if any theories are real just so that I can use the wrong theories I’ve made up for personal worldbuilding

[compact shale]

If it's small enough, Ash might give a clue! :D

[stable veldt]

Should we just, at this point, make a doc filled with sky fanfic with all of the theories we have in lorechat, make it as some sort of alternate interpretation, POV from skids that spent too much time in the vault

[compact shale]

Credit to Vela#1518, whose images give our sanity back

[formal skiff]

(Vela’s art ofc)

[carmine garnet]

Like my art of what I thought Sky Children should look like lol

[stable veldt]

Fill the fanfic with art depicting everything we theorize. Best seller for lore moths and those who wants to dip into this never ending rabbit hole

[compact shale]

Fanfic, huh?

[carmine garnet]

Cause I mean, we don’t get any answers. Anything goes. We can argue the Journey and Sky are the same universe

[sharp lichen]

What I thought is you drop the crab, time it, and measure the height of the cliff, like what we just did

[formal skiff]

Ok let’s do that tomorrow though

[sharp lichen]

I’m at a dinner party, so I have some time tonight

[compact shale]

Are you playing Sky while hiding in the bathroom during the dinner party?

[formal skiff]

Gonna take this to dms so we don’t bore everyone with physics testing scheduling

[tranquil harbor]

We are free /lh

[keen shore]

Hello my clones :-) are we still talking about physics

[formal skiff]

Kinda? Baud and i are gonna do more testing tomorrow. Done for tonight though.

[carmine garnet]

I need sleep. I start my kingdom lore rambles in the morning 😴

[compact shale]

Smart idea, cloning yourself so that wedding salami isn't the last we see of you

[frigid tinsel]

smart wooly manta.
see, it's smart cos it has glasses

[keen shore]

CANON glasses even

[white dagger]

im not sure if this is common knowledge or what but i just think this is neat

funny shaped island

me like

[keen shore]

oooihhhhhh COOL

[white dagger]

i just feel like the pointyness and the beaches line up a little too well

[compact shale]

What does that even mean

[white dagger]

smart wooly light creature thats what

[tranquil harbor]

People say sanctuary isn't canon because 'sunglasses can't exist in sky' even though sky was an advanced society that fell
And also people invent for what they need. They had flying creatures, so they don't exactly need to invent the wheel

[white dagger]

[harsh pecan]

Wow

[white dagger]

slightly odd question
do you happen to like hnk

[frigid tinsel]

to the what?

[white dagger]

mew
off topic but why is this here

[frigid tinsel]

Valley Elder(s) demanded a sacrifice

[rigid mural]

@white dagger
It's remnants of an old light awaits quest.

[white dagger]

gasppp

[white dagger]

im going to roll up to their place and demand the bird back

[worldly edge]

what does this pic means

[frigid tinsel]

mantas to diamonds conversion chart

[compact shale]

Most interpret it as evidence that mantas were experimented on

(and that they were gravely harmed to make power diamonds)

[frigid tinsel]

gravely

[compact shale]

Yes I know it's an understatement but I don't want the mods to come at us

[tranquil harbor]

this always gets looked at as if mantas r innocent puppies rather than like, sky cows

[keen shore]

Why Not Both

[compact shale]

Sad mrooo

Also mantas are most likely sky horses

[tranquil harbor]

that kind of implies that there is something blatantly wrong with hunting/meat agriculture, unless u meant something else

We use chickens for eggs AND meat. It's possible to use mantas as horses and power diamonds

[keen shore]

Clarification: I meant that mantas seem to be the only easily domesticated light creature that can be used for things (I don’t think jellyfish do much) so in this universe they may fill pet, livestock, AND transportation roles all in one

[tranquil harbor]

But I stand by my thing of 'light creatures used for power diamonds' like, always gets viewed under this immoral lens, with like, no thought given to it as if it's just... sky cow
Though I guess that's a rather simple take so it's less 'juicy' and angsty

[copper saffron]

Poor mantas

Also phew yall finally stop talking about physics lmao

[harsh pecan]

Finally 😭

[frigid tinsel]

I think the physicists went to bed

[worldly edge]

imagine sky kid exsist during that time, they would be human batteries

[tranquil harbor]

I mean, sky kids seem to have so much excess light that they work like super batteries, and they are incredibly helpful and generous little things by nature. I don't think ancestors would have problems with a system that goes 'hey cutie, could u light this with your candle for a moment? Yes, thank u, have a cookie'

[worldly edge]

true

[keen shore]

This can’t be real because physicists aren’t people, meaning they don’t need sleep /j

• Love and appreciate anyone here who understands physics more than I do, just making a joke

[tranquil harbor]

I do want them to finish their gravity science, but like, it hurts my brain

[keen shore]

I’m still feeling Weird so every time I see numbers my brain rejects it like “NO. No math now”

[copper saffron]

They be like "i dont need sleep, i need answers"

[native shoal]

Can confirm I did stay up until 30 minutes to midnight trying to figure out how to get the variables needed to solve for gravity

[tranquil harbor]

Some of lore chat: We need to solve the mystery of sky gravity!
the rest of lore chat: -hiding in terror of the math, occasionally peeking out in facination-

[native shoal]

I came up with the having a sky kid dive straight down to get acceleration (aka gravity) but that idea didn’t work because we didn’t have any valid units of measurement at the time

Other than Time itself that is, for measuring

Thing is gravity is measured in meters per second squared and we didn’t have any meters

[tranquil harbor]

then cannoneer brought her flags
I think- I was only vaguely paying attention because of the math

[harsh pecan]

Same

[native shoal]

We then realized ‘wait there are actual heights for this’ and found out that max height is 3’10 and chibi height I don’t remember

I say found out, someone dug it up. I also say ‘we’ when it was mostly the others

[tranquil harbor]

I got to learn that office to sky child heights is actually canon

[native shoal]

The original thing we were trying to get was Dusk’s weight

Which is why we’re now trying to get gravity for reasons I don’t understand, I could just pull up a height weight chart and once we find out the height guess from there

[harsh pecan]

I’m so confused

[native shoal]

So am I

Im just the one who technically started all of this by joking about chibi dusk being very strong because of the square cube law

[tranquil harbor]

Then I asked if chibi dusk and regular dusk weighed the same I think. Then Baudshaw showed up, and decided to actually calculate the gravity like a lunatic /lh

[keen shore]

It’s like an ant

[tranquil harbor]

And now lore chat has been experiencing a rain of math like eden meteors for the past 2 days

[native shoal]

The only break is when they’re asleep

[tranquil harbor]

Restless says, as if they aren't one of them

[native shoal]

Bruh I was just gonna guess, my original guess was 300-400 lbs going off of human weight and apparent size. Might as well help them get gravity

Plus we can use the gravity for other things once we have it

[tranquil harbor]

It's gonna be fun, I'm sure

[native shoal]

I think we’re close to getting it

I wanna have a comparison using earth gravity vs sky gravity once we have it to see what the difference is

If sky’s gravity is the same as early gravity people are gonna be yelling for hours

[tranquil harbor]

-insert cannoneer cackle level 4- Please

[native shoal]

Oh I’ll be one of the ones yelling

[tranquil harbor]

Sometimes the simplest solution is the best solution

[native shoal]

Also it might snow where I am! We get snow very rarely so I hope it does

I was happy with my guess. We could also go with the clay shell theory for the elders and assume they’re about 40% clay, and get the weight of that much clay once we get the height and use a height weight chart

I need to see the wasteland elder cutscene but since he doesn’t crack the presumably stone floor we can put an upper limit on the force him falling from unknown height caused, which honestly depends on what kind of rock he falls on

[hushed steeple]

Ok, sorry to bring up prophecy, it will be brief. In the prophecy main cave we see that prairie elder got green light, forest blue light, valley cyan light, and wasteland orange light(I'll get to why its not red in a bit). But the murals leading up to the main cave as well as in modern sky we can see that the green light is in prairie, the blue light is in valley, the cyan light is in isle(somewhat), and the orange light is in forest where all the trees burned down. I think cyan was used to banish isle, blocking out the sun and killing all of its life off, the blue light was borrowed y valley to make cleaner water and create ice rinks, the green light probably stayed for some form of agricultural reasons, and the orange light, well, that one remains a mystery, but remember how I said wasteland elder was attacking the light, maybe its actually saying they attacked with the orange light.

Now, why prophecy has orange light and not red. So in enchantment the orange light has a fire symbol on it, and that same symbol is on the totem in prophecy, and even if the symbol was changed, you need to know that the symbol similarities are canon now. And also its hard to tell but you can see how the murals depict it as a bit more of an orange than a red. Also red light is called void in the files so that could be red lights canon name. Also dont compare and contrast the colors with the orange light prop as the prop is a lot more of a yellow, I'm working on giving feedback about that, I just have to wait like 7 hours.

[tranquil harbor]

unfortunately, it might be 'fantasy sky rock'. Or, it just doesn't count because we're in his special elder mind zone office

[keen shore]

Okay I just started your post and am reading it but NEVER apologize for bringing up the best season in sky. Okay now time to keep reading

[native shoal]

Im choosing concrete because it’s the only one Google is giving answers for in newtons

Turns out it is not giving clear answers, I don’t know how to use psi

My point of an upper limit still stands

[native shoal]

And if I use this then trying to get the gravity for the original purpose doesn’t really matter

Im tired Im going to bed

[tranquil harbor]

yes, escape while u still can

[native shoal]

I gotta get up “early” tomorrow so I can visit my mom, Cya guys

[keen shore]

Definitely agree with you that that’s orange light and not red - it’s a bit hard to see in the murals, especially with a warm toned backdrop, but orange seems to be the correct color!

Quick change in some of this though. It’s a bit weird, but from what I can tell the lights we can find in enchantment are either smaller/split off versions of the main lights, or not their original locations. With the murals in the cave those seem to be where they were found, not used. Once again the mural colors get a bit weird, but the elders get lights that don’t line up with those locations - valley gets cyan, Forest gets blue, prairie gets green, wasteland gets orange.

I don’t know if cyan was used to make isle a desert specifically. I mean, SOMETHING happened, but I currently don’t have much ideas on how or what happened to kill everything. While I think about it, I will add that it’s a somewhat theory that the cyclone we fall into in wasteland was made from the cyan light (air) as a means of blocking it off, so even if it didn’t happen to isle, it probably happened there at least

[hushed steeple]

So when you mention the murals in the caves, were you referring to the ones leading up to the main cave? Because I was speculating ways as to how they got to the places we find them in.

And with isle and cyan, what I meant was that it was used to obscure it with clouds, which resulted in the sun being blocked out in isle, which killed a lot of the life there.

And as for the split off thing, thats a bit confusing as I don't know if you're thinking we could be collecting pieces of each light for enchantment, or if you're thinking that the enchantment lights branched off of the prophecy lights. The second option doesn't sit well with me as four of the enchantment lights are the exact lights from prophecy, they have the same symbol and color, water, air, green door step tiles, and fire.

[compact shale]

Ah yes, the four elements
Water
Air
Fire
Green Door Step Tiles

[keen shore]

Oh! I didn’t realize that, sorry. I was talking about those murals, for some reason my brain decided to momentarily stop functioning while I was reading it due to tiredness. I thought you meant that those spots were were the light remained for some reason.

For the split off thing - I am rethinking it. It just struck me as a bit weird how they’re treated as some big important thing in the prophecy murals, and then we get them in enchantment and they’re small, they don’t do much, and how did the enchantment spirits get their hands on those lights anyways? Without going into too much detail, because then this would be an essay, my idea was that the elders somehow infused these lights into themselves similar to how we have inner light, and are able to manifest bits of it at will for whatever they need. Which is how they’re split off AND the same light - they’re bits of the original light, which the elders can naturally regenerate and use for things. Does that make sense? It’s not a super common theory afaik, and I haven’t been able to explain it too much here, so hope this is ok

[hushed steeple]

The water relieved us of drought, the air freed us from pollution, the fire helped us to see in the night, and the green door step tiles made sure we never had to touch filthy grass every again.

[compact shale]

I don't know about you, but for personal worldbuilding purposes, I've always assumed that the lights could be extracted from the appropriate places in nature (by the lightcatchers) , but are too small to do anything unless concentrated/processed

Obvs probably wrong but still adshgsngag

[gilded socket]

Daylight Prairie:

[keen shore]

I think this is how it works for the small generic yellow lights, but not sure about the other colored ones

[hushed steeple]

Ah, 👏 yes perfect. I can agree with this, and it makes perfect sense. Especially since we may have discovered that there are things that can contain light, like specific features on light creatures, and maybe even our chest gem.

[keen shore]

!! Thank you ! Always get super excited when other people agree with my theories. I did post it here but it got passed over so I assumed no one really cared about it lol

[hushed steeple]

Did we just solve a decently sized portion of prophecy in like 30 minutes with just three comments?

[sharp lichen]

Do you really think you can hide from me?

[keen shore]

Maybe! Im not confident enough in myself to say yes or no (especially since I need to sleep soon) but true or not it’s a really neat idea

[hushed steeple]

I don't know, do you.....

[sharp lichen]

Physics has tortured my brain, and it will stay like that until I figure this out or Ash says “well the gravity is actually the same on Earth’s”

[hushed steeple]

Yeah, it could just be -9.8

[sharp lichen]

I will dream about physics. Then, my time discussing the actual lore of the game will reach zero. That will be the time where I will be consumed by myself

[compact shale]

negative gravity is a thing?

[hushed steeple]

Its force, since gravity is pulling us down here on earth, its negative.

I was the only person to get a 100 of my French final last semester.
I mention this because you gave me an A and it reminded me of that.

[compact shale]

When I react with "a" it means I'm making that noise Gawr Gura made in her debut

Oh? Esther, search up "Gawr Gura a" on youtube and you'll find it

[hushed steeple]

OH MY JAR!!!!!!!!!
ITS PRICLESSLY ADORABLE AND FUNNY.

Why didn't TGC add the yellow banana plantation light to sky.

[compact shale]

the what

[hushed steeple]

Ba-na-na plan-ta-tion light

[compact shale]

WHATS SO SPECIAL ABOUT THAT IDK WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE

[hushed steeple]

BECAUSE THEY DIDNT ADD IT. That is until they gave us the nodding muralists prop.

[compact shale]

????????????????????????

[hushed steeple]

Yes, that is what it makes, banana plantations. The ancestors needed a food surplus and this was their laziest option, so they took it.

(I swear to jar, if this tablet does another thing wrong I'll shatter it.)

For April 1st, TGC should go through lore chat, take a bunch of our hilarious awful suggestions, jokes, and refernces, and apply them to sky for that one day. Cheaply of course.

[compact shale]

The Seven Fundamental Forces of Sky
Air
Earth
Fire
Water
Void
Mind
Banana Plantation

[hushed steeple]

Earth? I've only heard of green door step tiles.

[compact shale]

I think if this is what April Fools is like, the best thing to come out of it will be Wooly manta ~woo

Air. Green Door Step Tiles. Fire. Water. Void. Mind.

And the one to surpass all...
Banana Plantation

[hushed steeple]

TGC on April first: we're redoing enchantment, all quests are reset back to the beginning.

Players: tgc, why is there a seventh quest.

Banana Plantation light: excessively adds excessive banana trees that are excessive

Can't wait to see the twins accidentally ruin the kingdom of sky into what is today.

Anything go wrong? Blame it on the twins.

[compact shale]

Banana plantation light

[undone harbor]

...banana plantation.
This is the lore??

[hushed steeple]

Are you new here?

[acoustic dirge]

A friend told me the twins have Fred and George energy and now i can’t unsee it

[undone harbor]

Nah I’m a regular here
I haven’t been here recently and I’m confused why banana plantation is both in cozy chat and lore chat-

[hushed steeple]

Wot....... When did this happen. I brought it up in here because I was bored.

[undone harbor]

OH
Fruit talked about the lore chat talking about banana plantation
No wonder

Anyway what is the banana plantation light

[hushed steeple]

I just checked. Story checks out.

[hushed steeple]

Its the yellow light TGC forgot to release until adding it in as nodding muralists prop. Obviously.
It excessively creates excessive banana trees that are excessive.

[undone harbor]

Banana..
Rotate
(Search rotating banana on YouTube)

[hushed steeple]

......

......

......

H-help?.....

[undone harbor]

banana
rotate FASTER

https://tenor.com/view/rotating-banana-meme-rotating-banana-banana-faster-faster-and-faster-gif-18265963

[hushed steeple]

3xE.[redacted]programfix.exe//mo0NEsth333333333333333333rrrrrr.53NDH31P.com.com.exe

Has stopped working.

[undone harbor]

This is why TGC didn’t put the banana plantation light in earlier

[gilded socket]

we are reaching maximum velocity

[undone harbor]

Go
GOOOOOOOOO

[hushed steeple]

Rebooting...
Rebooting...
Rebooting...
([redacted]

ERROR.anti-virus detected

Remove Anti-virus...
R3move Anti-virus...
R3m0√E 4Nt|v1ru5...

Virus uploaded successfully

Checking memories....
Memories intact

Checking personality...
Personality intact

Checking disabilities...
Disabilities intact

Checking creativity...
Creativity intact

Virus soft reboot complete

[gilded socket]

Also I found the tearful miner the other day
All I can say is
👁️ 👄 👁️

Also I would say dark plants do feed on dead creatures, but they also feed on live ones? How do they even do that?

How do they grow fast enough to pin a light manta ray to the ground? A live one no less?

[hushed steeple]

They might be parasitic entities that feed off of light

Well I'm getting tired, byeeeeeeeee!!!!!!

[gilded socket]

bye

[south mortar]

uh

[compact shale]

any questions?

[south mortar]

no

ok bye

[west raft]

Hello! I have been playing the game pretty much blind ever since I got it in season of gratitude, creating my own theory’s and terminology, (I named my kid Moth and look at that, that’s what everyone calls new players, cool coincidence) and I wanted to know what was what is generally accepted to be happening, I’m just really curious

[pastel brook]

A "moth" is a new player. They have brown wings, they flap around uncontrollably, and they are drawn to flame!

[gilded socket]

Something common
Ok
It's mostly accepted that the storyline of the game revolves around rebirth as shown by the end of Eden.
Skykids are the name of our characters, and they are beings of light in a certain vessel. Some say clay, others say wax.
A certain spirit in the Isle of Dawn involves a skykid falling from the sky. This is believed to being the King. Many believe the King somewhat caused the downfall of the ancestors.
While never mentioned in games, the Megabird is found in concept arts. It is believed to be a deity, at the very least of light. (Also it doesn't really look like a bird tbh)
Wooly manta is the mascot of this chat channel. A hypothetical creature for a channel about creating hypothetises.
Since there is strong proof, the memories of spirits we find are those of notable memories. Whether at the peak or the end of their lives, if it left a huge impression, that will be the memory shown.

[west raft]

Wo! That’s cooll! I remember that when I first started playing the game I thought the kid was made and sent to save “something”, the world, it’s people or traditions, only for the player to get there and find nothing to save, the skykids find an abandoned world but not a dead one, similarly it doesn’t seam that the kids where made to have a will of their own ? Idk something about the mask gave me that impression, but the kids create one of their own by picking up memories

Wait if the skykids are beings of light, does that mean that they are more closely related to mantas than the ancestors? Given that they can fly but the ancestors couldn’t?

Are the skykids automatons?

[nimble ingot]

Adding on to that,
The spirits with the fallen child memory was the Ushering Stargazer, that and some believe it to be the Prince instead.
The King and the Prince were shown as a separate character at times. Whether this is because this shows the same character at different ages, or two different character is up for debate.

As for the megabird, the name came from concept art, which implies it is the celestial entity that supposedly brought life and light to the world, if not created it. There is an ingame reference to it.
One is in the water surrounding the office portal in Vault, and the other is found by looking straight up in Orbit.

[nimble ingot]

Skykids are a hyrbid of light and darkness.
They are able to fly, withstand fire and can be affected by darkness draining their Light.

There has not been any evidence that shows the ancestor flying on their own, even though the spirits can float, as ghosts do.
There is though evidence to suggest the ancestors used flying ships, mantas and possibly other inventions to travel in the air.

[nimble ingot]

Skykids can be compared to living golems (there is a working theory that suggests they have a soul along with the winged light they carry), or even a puppet such as Pinnochio.

[west raft]

Thanks for answering my questions! Is all just really interesting

[nimble ingot]

no problem 🙂
If there is anything you would like to ask, feel free to do so.
The lore chat has a lot of history.

[west raft]

Neat! Also I hope is not terribly annoying that I pop out every once in a while with some crazy narrative that already has an explanation

[gilded socket]

And also a lot of uncertainty
From the exact anatomy of various creatures
To the origins of corrupted creatures such as krills
The cause of the battlefield in Wasteland
The purpose of sky kids
And much more

[west raft]

I have been alone with my thoughts with this game for a long time

[nimble ingot]

The lore chat is just that.
There will be times were the chat will go over things someone else likely already went over.
I dont any issue with doing that.

[gilded socket]

Also
There are joke theories
Some of them banished to the forbidden section for good reasons

[west raft]

Also pretty random but did anyone got bunker vibes from the vault of knowledge? I can’t defend this thought pretty much since it has been literal years since I have gone from the golden wasteland to the vault of knowledge to the eye of Eden, and I don’t remember what the spirits where about in the area other than the levitating one but yeh: the idea being that this was where people where sent either to try and solve the world ending problem, or created the problem, or where some part of the population where waiting for the skykids to arrive

[nimble ingot]

It is unknown if the ancestors were aware of skykids (yet).
The Vault of Knowledge, can be like a Library. As a bunker, it would be very interesting.
Perhaps if the game were to be updated and include living quarters, it would practically cement the idea.

The spirts there are mostly scholars of priest like. There is the levitation spirit, the meditation spirit, a polite one and memory whisper.

[gilded socket]

Also
Funny how I got the levitating spirit first considering you're supposed to get it last

[nimble ingot]

you had to be lucky.
You need praying acolyte's emote to get it started, who is in the room that requires getting the emote from the levitating adept to open.

[gilded socket]

which each requires 4 people to repeat the stage

At the very least I had a friend guide me there and they had the praying emote

[silk hinge]

[silk hinge]

oops how did my phone send that

[waxen lion]

I just completed treasure reef and oml that big fish thing is so cool yet scary

[undone trench]

Does anyone have an idea on what that big red light on eye of eden is, is that the eye of eden ? Or maybe something else ?

[compact shale]

Some theorize it to be a BIG dark diamond :D

[nimble ingot]

The giant red crystal that glows white when someone is about to die?
Nope, but it is known to turn creatures into stone.
Theoretically, the souls of the fallen are either lost, or trapped in the petrified body.

[rigid mural]

Maybe it turns white because someone is about to ascend ?
I recall thinking it was a portal, as a moth especially since the saved statues fly towards it.

[compact shale]

I mean, considering the space elevator theory, you are kiiiiiiiiinda right in a sense...

[rigid mural]

The diamond is a 3D model tbh

[compact shale]

E?!

[rigid mural]

Also I think about the theory that the wind paths aided the spread of darkness a normal amount.

Considering the flight crew that likely built it from scratch (since the guide had to be an elder's disciple & ash said Day had a huge influence there) was probably following the QG in having "a better vision of a more harmonious life".

Something they may have inadvertently hindered on the long run.

[nimble ingot]

Possibly.
The reason why I say it like that is it happens when the skykid is about to turn into stone, and it did so when the Little Prince was also about to turn into stone.
That and the crystal stays red when the ascension cutscene plays with the statues breaking and the spirits flying towards the diamond. (note, they dont fly upwards as the cutscene does not show it, though assumingly, they had to at some point after the cutscene.)

[rigid mural]

Yeah I got a vid of it turning white when I died.
Maybe the scene in limbo happens inside that diamond ?

[carmine garnet]

Maybe the crystal hold part of the spirits from the lost kingdom?

[compact shale]

Maybe the crystal glows as an alert? As an anticipation towards something? Hmmm...

[nimble ingot]

With the spirit world and limbo-esque setting references. I may have to include spirituality in my research notes.

[carmine garnet]

I have a question, do you think the world of sky was all together at first? Like before the fall of the kingdom they were all together but the fall fracture they had to use portals?

[formal oxide]

i love reading this channel, honestly! there's so many interesting theories

[nimble ingot]

Aside from the game's limitations.
The areas are more or less connected with the clouds.
Though based on the intro murals in Dawn, the kingdoms did live in Harmony once.

[formal oxide]

i do wonder though how much though tgc puts into lore. as someone who works in gamedev and takes part in creating worldbuilding for games, it's often very superficial and more often "that's a magic being idk where it came from" rather than a detailed why and when

then again, tgc makes games that are about exploration and finding out things about the setting. so that's a very different approach from most games

[carmine garnet]

I think if they do have a big overarching story or idea, the tgc has likely made peace with the fact that everyone will see it different or have overarching thoughts with the lore. It isn’t like dark souls or even hollow knight where you have characters talking about and conforming what’s happen

[compact shale]

They have a lore bible for the big stuff but for the smaller details they sometimes give a "that's up to your interpretation" instead of the regular "idk lmao"

[formal oxide]

hahah yeah, it's a fun way to leave room for players! without spending too much time on the small stuff

[nimble ingot]

Their previous games like Journey shows how much thought TGC puts into their games.
Though as theur games go, they are known to be ummersive and yet able to break immersion when you where to look. Meaning you can see how the game works and how it creates the illusion of a lrager world, despite not being able to render in the whole world.

[carmine garnet]

Again I think maybe TGC mainly focus on storytelling through visual elements and leave that up to the player. Because I can say the story I got from my first Eden run was very different then now

[compact shale]

Tell us about it!

[carmine garnet]

I thought when I first play the game, I was watching the world slowly decent into a wasteland 😅, I thought that after Eden the world was distorted and my character was dead, it was a real shock when I got the ‘you are about to be reborn message’

[compact shale]

They did say/imply Sky's worlds are based on the rise to fall of a civilization

[formal oxide]

as the game is a lot about connecting, it's very obvious to me that the main thought behind the game is to grow empathy and appreciation of life within players, and the whole lore to be based around that. what we see as a skykid is not only precious memories of wonderful beings that must've been happy but also grief over what's lost

[nimble ingot]

"This is where your Journey really starts"

[rigid mural]

I like seeing sky like a tale instead of a realistic world, it is an art game after all.
So I like to pay more attention to the poetic stuff like symbolism.

[carmine garnet]

I just didn’t realize the areas were different places once effected by the fall, I thought the golden wasteland was once the valley 😅. I mean it’s a way of reading it but I got more into it as I played more and they allow us to look at the other seasons spirits

[compact shale]

Actually, you're pretty close. It's theorized that Wasteland was once part of Valley when it wasn't... well, Wastey

[rigid mural]

The ascent from the gloomy forest where you witness the change from humble farmers to industry workers to the glorious valley where they reap the benefits of these hardships ? Chef's kiss.
The descent from there to the wasteland like a violent return to reality with pollution and all ?

Don't get me started on vault being like a conclusion where you see the constellation of each realm you crossed, like reminiscing a life before its ending.

[carmine garnet]

That was my first reading into sky tho. As I played more I realize all the areas were fractured by the fall of the kingdom in same way (wasteland more then other)

[formal oxide]

more often than not, conscious gamedev studios base their lore choices/ideas on what they want to envoke in players, so having in mind the very first "backstory" in isle of dawn and what we learn about skykids purpose, it's much easier to understand stuff like "where did that creature come from" etc.

e.g. i really liked seeing theories about the creature locked under the tower from current season , like one about ancestors creating the monster, but from pictograms first seen in the caves it's prompted that they encountered it and got spooked™ and locked it for their own gain (mining stuff). but imo it's implied as a wrong order of things in the world, which only added to the darkness that was residing in that place

[compact shale]

Like, they locked it so that their operations wouldn't get interrupted?

[rigid mural]

The only other game that came close to impressing me this much was GRIS. I complain a lot but I really really love the work put into the themes and the way they reflect them through the levels. The concept art is also so good, I love seeing the color and shape theory being used to convey emotions too.

It's a shame Journey won't work on my computer though...

[formal oxide]

yeah, i felt an underlying theme of greed within this season's quests. it's not news that in our world companjes just don't care abt the environment and adapt it to their own needs. if the place was a mine, then it was most probably a very valuable for ancestors to have that place and mine stuff for the kingdom

[carmine garnet]

It’s kind of implied they locked the mantas in their for energy

[rigid mural]

Yui said the season was inspired by these deep sea horror movies, so it definitely rings of a tale of ancient hubris being discovered by looters adventurers.

[carmine garnet]

Maybe also Atlantis? Theirs are a lot of stories with Atlantis falling due to greed and it’s own hubris

[compact shale]

Now I'm imagining Yui and the devs grinning ear-to-ear as they take notes on Jaws with one hand and cover Oreo's eyes with the other

[undone trench]

Wait there's another yui?!
Well, I guess my name isn't as uncommon as I thought

[carmine garnet]

I do think they are looking at some sort of myths when they come up with areas and seasons

[rigid mural]

Yui is a dev yes xD

They were in charge of this season in fact.

[undone trench]

On the topic of abyss, maybe those manta where there to be observed, like it's some kind of laboratory or observatory like they did with the leviathan but the manta laboratory was abandoned after it flooded , there might be some clues about this matter inside that lighthouse thing

[carmine garnet]

But what about the crystal then? These are one of the few places you can find thoses green crystals

[undone trench]

Green crystals ? Like the ones we get on the quests and the ones when we collect the barrier opens ?

[carmine garnet]

Yep. Their resource, theirs hints of the crystals being used elsewhere but their gone, the one place we find them is the season of the abyss

[compact shale]

Actually, they're in a lot of doors outside Abyss too! Like those doors in forest with burnable doorknobs? Surprise! The doorknobs are made of crystal, too!

[west raft]

I have the current theory that every escort memory spirit was an awful person and deserved every bad thing to ever happen to them, they are the worst and everyone should be glad they are gone

[compact shale]

Dear-

can you elaborate, please?

[west raft]

Sorry I’m just still trying to get the don’t go emote and I want to kill

[nimble ingot]

[compact shale]

Personal headcanon is that the carry spirits' memories are particularly scrambled/fragmented in their mind, which makes them the way they are

...yeah this isn't going to go far isn't it

This is your brain on alcohol 🍳

[west raft]

Makes sense! They need help getting home

[compact shale]

If we want to take it logically, we can list the carry spirits (that I remember at least) and see the common theme in their memories

Chill Sunbather - They walk in a crab-infested cave and their clothes get knocked off, but Sanc Guide recovers them and they're... well, chill about it
Hiking Grouch - They climb up a mountain with Sanc Guide... very grouchily
Pleaful Parent - They chase their dinner but fail to do so
Bearhug Hermit - They walk up a mountain, save Dreams Skater from grave fall damage
Respectful Pianist - I forgor 💀
Slouching Soldier - The dark water is making them forget, their visions of the family and other spirits might be visions caused by said water (note that TLP spirits may not be canon, so you don't have to include them)
Sneezing Geographer - I forgor

[carmine garnet]

I’m just throwing out some ideas for possible lore. Could it possible that their are differences between elders and the past spirits verse sky children? Is it possible that they were their closest ones to the kingdom?

[compact shale]

Who was the closest to the kingdom?

[frank matrix]

Since the flight guestgiver was a former apprentice, maybe?

[carmine garnet]

Possible the elders? The ones at the end of the levels, the ones hidden in the constellations

[undone trench]

I can remember 2 spirit memory cutscenes that have other spirits in them, there might be more, but I got a question, we can't find any other spirits that look like those, so does that mean not every spirit have memories that we can't see or could they be somewhere where we can't access,

[hushed steeple]

"Checkmate? HeheheheheHEHEHEHE
Don't make me laugh, what do you MeAn CHECKMATE?!"

+1 Celeste moment

[sharp lichen]

BWAHAHAHA! Time for lorechat’s greatest demise, MORE PHYSICS! Unfortunately for me, I’m almost done! We just need to find the mass of one object, then we can find the universal gravity of the Sky world!

[carmine garnet]

Well time for me to stop helping and start lurking before me no understand physics

[nimble ingot]

same but am interested on where this goes.

I believe someone on here mangaed to work out the weight or gravity a while ago.
However, it was a while ago and it would not hurt if one does their own research

[tranquil harbor]

Like, I know we've been joking about hiding in terror and all that, but it is an interesting thing

[carmine garnet]

I mean it’s good for me. Because I will make a fan season based off lore (so I will be living here for a while)

Also I’m just going to add. You guys might also wanna look into wind currents as well as gravity,

[sharp lichen]

That’ll be a topic for another time, I’m afraid. We don’t have any meteorologist tools

[undone trench]

Maybe the chimes from flight and the pinwheel prop spell

[sharp lichen]

Oh snap yeah

[formal skiff]

I do not understand how you are comprehending this but I applaud you

TGC pls make Season of Physics Calculations for me and Baud /j

[native shoal]

We know how much candle wax weighs, what if we use a candle?

Like the red ones, we can get volume for it and go from there

Then once we have the weight in earth gravity for a candle of that size we can get the mass from it

Nevermind the formula for that required gravity which is what we’re trying to get

Maybe we can ask the devs what the mass of a crab is

[formal skiff]

I mean if we wanted to ask the devs, we could just ask them the gravity stuff they used for the game. At this point, we’re basically on our own for figuring our insane physics stuff out

[carmine garnet]

Lol. I just imagine they never thoughts much about it

[formal skiff]

No I mean I’m like 95% sure they need information like that to physically rig the game since it’s a 3d game

[hushed steeple]

I thought in lore discussion people would talk about cool theories and so, but instead they talk about math 😂😂😂 I love it

[formal skiff]

Well… we usually talk about more story-related stuff, but….. we got obsessed with physics recently

[hushed steeple]

It’s okay, that’s okay

[carmine garnet]

Ok alright

[hushed steeple]

I mean the mass, the gravity, etc are things they can told us cuz is more a curiosity

[tulip aspen]

the psychic manta (damn i cant even call it the upgrade manta anymore) has been annoying the crap out of me.

i love the character continuity, i loved how seeing it at the end made a lot of the pieces fit together; that it had been calling for us to dive and save it from the Abyss

what i dont like is just how vague it's existence is. the visuals should give us a clear picture but it just doesnt, and it especially wont in the coming month

the fact that the visuals are so narratively misconstrued makes me wonder if THEY even understand want the story wants the manta to be

do they never have to fill plotholes because it's justified?

"hey writer #1, how does [blank] work if [blank] happens?"

"it doesn't really matter writer #2, we're supposed to keep it inpossibly vague anyways"

i know I've claimed the intro to be like this, but recent info on the manta and the message it conveys is really leaving me confused on if they care, and if the manta is a concrete, explained character to the devs

if the latter is true then good.
im having a really hard time believing it is though.

"its up to interpretation" is a crutch, however and whatever else is happening behind the scenes

it doesnt matter if there's a story that you understand, devs, to us it just looks empty and plain, and therefore that statement looks like a crutch

you can still write a vague story that's up to interpretation, while still making your characters, at the VERY least, comprehensible

[hushed steeple]

Oob in beta abyss

[carmine garnet]

I’m wondering, would the dark spots be thoses gems?

[formal skiff]

wowwww pretty!
also @tulip aspen i've been wondering the same thing. i hope there really is lots of story in the lore bible, and that we'll learn it eventually... and if not, maybe they can make one! there's an audience for it. and the clearer and more compelling sky's story is, the more that audience will grow.

[tulip aspen]

if not, they can make story
bru that'd suck, that shows there truly was no story
luckily, (allegedly) ash said there is a lore bible (pamphlet) devs read

[tulip aspen]

those black orbs on each creature, and the black orb in the prince's hand.....

[formal skiff]

yeah i'm aware that would majorly suck and i greatly hope it's not the case
i'm glad it's confirmed that there's at LEAST a skeleton story

[rigid mural]

say sike

[keen shore]

I’m not really sure if this is a concrete explanation but here’s my idea

• Abyss used to be a refinery
• There are tons of manta spirits there because of course there are, I mean, tons of them died? there
• both mantas are spirits and are not the same one, but two different mantas. You might be able to make them the same, but then it gets really confusing because how did the spirit get out of the leviathan if that makes sense
• you free spirit inside leviathan to cause a reaction and all the other light creatures and light creature spirits within come rushing out

[carmine garnet]

I will just happen to point out that mantas are both Sky and sea

[hushed steeple]

I assume, they lit up. They are the spots for motes in the og art it looks based on.

I wanted badly for someone to find it in live

[frigid tinsel]

the mote mural

[hushed steeple]

Yeah that one.

Ok well theres several versions but this one shows it off well.

[carmine garnet]

Is it possible the mantas are made from the big light mantas

[teal field]

woah! i love this art!!
also concept is great

[pastel brook]

bruh... talking about hacks and hackers is against the rules @hushed steeple

[hushed steeple]

WHAT. I DIDNT! EHAT? WHAT BLOOMIN WORD DID IT?!

Original use
Leviathan door
Lit up
It would spin

WHAT WORD DID IT?! It was just a theory!

Maybe I was so correct skybot thought I had secret info

[tranquil harbor]

Looool Bad sky bot

[carmine garnet]

Maybe because you were talking about the beta?

[hushed steeple]

The OLD beta

[carmine garnet]

But the big manta could also deal with the cycle of rebirth, sense we also know that is a big theme in Sky as well

[frigid tinsel]

That big manta in that concept art is actually Megabird or the Light

[tulip aspen]

ohhhh good point thanks y'all!

[tulip aspen]

i still have trouble believing the spirit of a little creature wouldn't visually follow the same transparent themes of 'spirits' we've already seen, like cosmic mantas and actual spirits, so personally i am still a little too attached to the manta being alive, both in it's projection to us before part 1 and during part 5 in limbo and in the ascension scene

[keen shore]

They do follow the same transparent themes, though! List of common attributes here [#lore-discussion-spoilers message] keep in mind that mantas are mostly white and that color gets preserved as a bright white in spirit hair form, so they wouldn’t have the dark color palette ancestor spirits do. Plus, personally I doubt cosmic mantas are spirits - they resemble jellyfish much more, and if I say they are, then I feel like I have to make a justification for those jellyfish being spirits as well

[tulip aspen]

yes, the mostly white argument is true, ive admitted that before, but both in it's first scene, and then in limbo (even before being lit) and the during Ascension), it is not and never was transparent

[nimble ingot]

WHAT!?
Where, Please tell us.

Nevermind, I looked again and see the nametag.
I suppose it is not in the live game....

[tulip aspen]

solid body

[keen shore]

That’s its… body? Outer shell? Corpse? Not quite sure what to call it. You can see the transparency better in this video! Credit to alasdair for it btw

Oh my god not again

[grim pumice]

I want this on a pop socket

[keen shore]

Here it is hopefully it’ll work this time @tulip aspen
Edit: YES

[tulip aspen]

it's physical for the duration of the cutscene tho, but yes I'll admit that it kinda faded in at first

hm

and yes that fade effect is very similar to how spirits work

[keen shore]

The dissolving in is especially weird to me because it’s the same kind of appearance as when spirits dissolve away after giving you their emote

[tulip aspen]

i will note that this is going on in the Limbo, not irl

it has to end up being a mindspace moment, but i know that's really stubborn of me to say; seeing as it feels weird to base it being a spirit or not only off it's literal minute of screentime

because if i continue to be a brat and say
"oh well the FIRST encounter is a projection due to meditation" and "and the SECOND encounter has to be in the pocket fimensions", then all we have to go off is catching a glimpse of it during ascension like al did, which i know isnt fair at all

[west niche]

But isn't the manta a spirit

[frigid tinsel]

Oh hey that’s my video

[tulip aspen]

yee they credited u above, thanks for all the documentation ehe

[frigid tinsel]

Me knowing I won’t be able to replay the quest anytime soon: rip my iCloud storage

[tulip aspen]

ive been stubbornly asserting that it's not, but yes it is the popular and preferred take currently that it 'has' to be a spirit

[west niche]

I'm not sure if you can go through the manta but I think if you can't go through it, it's probably because it's covered with darkness or something likes that? And then the darkness comes off and the manta leaves..?

[keen shore]

I don’t really know if it’s the popular/preferred take, honestly. I have been talking about it possibly being a spirit since the cutscene where we got the diving ability, but it feels like I’m talking into thin air sometimes because as far as I can tell I’m the only one who keeps saying it is one

[frigid tinsel]

It’s either a spirit manta (dead) or the culmination of the beings of the sea (nature spirit)

[keen shore]

I think I have talked about why I don’t believe it’s the second (since there’s a precedent for spirits existing but not nature spirits in that sense), but it’s really hard to disprove it given the little screen time and evidence we have

[frigid tinsel]

perhaps more like a guardian entity?

[keen shore]

Maybe… it’s really hard to prove a negative here

[frigid tinsel]

Only thing we can confirm is that they are not a typical manta

[sharp lichen]

yeah

[tulip aspen]

everyone even in all other chats usually just go "spirit manta yes" ye

[tulip aspen]

or just a manta that's a different breed, like great manta, ad ive said before

[tulip aspen]

exactly, like i said above, just seconds of screentime make this impossible to talk about

[keen shore]

I’m not sure I’ve seen that, then - whenever I see anyone else talk about it it’s either some metaphorical representation of something or a benefit? skill? sent to us by Megabird in the form of a manta. It doesn’t bother me (I’m not unused to my theories being ignored) but it can be a Little frustrating

[tulip aspen]

in a way all light creatures are extensions of the megabird

[sharp lichen]

Including us?

[tulip aspen]

ive always headcanoned that no interaction with the light creatures happens by chance

we arent light creatures baud

there's beings of light (all things)
creatures of light (natural, pure Light)
and then the term only i use like this:
CotL (ancestors and skykids before they fall)

[sharp lichen]

Ah ok

[frigid tinsel]

If a being has light, they’re an extension of the Megabird, even if when part of the world they’re not currently part of the Light

[sharp lichen]

I think that we have a great connection to Megabird, even to the point where we're created by it

[carmine garnet]

But I’m going to point out that we may be part of the mega bird but I don’t think we are completely light base like it

[sharp lichen]

I always headcanoned that the clay shells and physical stuff were created by the Elders, but the light/cape aspects were created by Megabird

[tulip aspen]

all good points all good points

[carmine garnet]

Yeah cause getting krilled for a manta = disappearing while getting krilled for a sky kid = lost light

[tulip aspen]

i prefer something similar to velas take about light from the megabird flowing like a cycle

that light creatures are the blood of the megabird, cycling in and out of all places in the universe, a natural, constant, balanced existence

and yeah the Light/megabird is the one that sent us, im also almost certain that the voice is the Light in general, and our connection to it is extremely powerful, which is why we can meditate and connect to the mindspace (which is a reality/dimension maintained by the Light) so well

[carmine garnet]

Ok, does that mean the krill and the darkness are the opposite of the light/mega bird then?

Also are the spirits and expressions we pick up just lights that have becomes trapped in their shells?

[nimble ingot]

The spirits themselves, probably. Which may explain why the spirit fragment goes to the stone ancestor statue at the end of a memory.

As for the expression, this is likely an interaction the skykid picked up while interacting with the spirit. The emote seems to form the basis of the friendship with the spirit, so the skykid cherishes the emote with the spirit.

wait.
What if the skykid learning emotes are not based on what the skykid interprets. But also partly from the spirit teaching them?

For example, crying light miner may have had been mournful in their memory, which the skykid reflects in the first level emote. But then the spirit teaches a variant of the emote to the skykid that is a similar theme, but in a different context. As in the spirit teaches frustration (tantrum) crying to the skykid, because they were not able to express that emotion before hand. The spirit thus teaches this to the skykid, instead of them taking the crying emote and developing the tantrum example on their own.

[carmine garnet]

Could it be possible that the expression spirits are skykids/fragments that have refused rebirth

[nimble ingot]

I do not think so.
The ancestors and skykids are not the same species of humanoid (as in an ancestor is not fire proof and can fly, while a skykid cannot grow old or live out a normal mortal life).

The spirits do seem trapped in the Sky world though. Seeing they are in a loop of reliving their own memories until the skykid relives the memory with them and guides them to the temple, to ascend.

[rigid mural]

fun fact the manta in gw leaves behind a few flames when krilled

[carmine garnet]

Hmm. It just makes me wonder. I always though the expression and ancestor were the same. While the elder and the king was some sort of special ones

[compact shale]

Yeah, krills aren't very efficient hunters

[half shadow]

The expression spirits are part of the Ancestor race of people. The words “spirit” and “Ancestor” are used pretty much in tandem, but refer to the same thing. Most people theorize that the King/Prince WAS the very first “skykid” and therefor was special compared to the other Ancestors.

[carmine garnet]

An ok. I was just getting confused

[half shadow]

No worries! :) It’s understandable, some people call them spirits and some call them ancestors. But you’re right that the King/Prince was def special, and probably a skykid like us.