lore-discussion-spoilers

[fickle wing]

would samekh eat those apple slices w a spork

[delicate anvil]

Salted and peppered apple slices don't actually taste that bad

[rigid mural]

wet cat

[frigid tinsel]

Fursuits tend to be made out of synthetic materials so I hope not

[white junco]

fanon name for the forest elder :)

[fickle wing]

teth is the concept name 4 the forest elder that folks 2 like use now sometimes
more of a fanon thing tho now

[frigid tinsel]

Since everyone has already answered you, See also the names of other elders: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[delicate anvil]

i peronally really like the concept of them having names
Kinda gives them more personality, almost

[fickle wing]

i think itd b funny if the reason why they use sporks is cause they kept arguing on forks or spoons

[thorn spade]

cant believe i woke up to this

[frigid tinsel]

That’s lorechat for you

[delicate anvil]

one of the by far best things I've said all day tbh

[rigid mural]

teth putting on their crown

[fickle wing]

HELP

[keen shore]

Teth totally hisses at people when they get mad

[rustic heron]

What if Teth isn't a furry, but a cat wearing a human costume?

[thorn spade]

NOOOOOOO
reverse furry

[keen shore]

As a cat wearing a human costume, I can assure you teth is definitely just a furry

[rustic heron]

You could say it was a "fur" reversal

[fickle wing]

i have a hc that teth actually has slitted eyes like a cat sorta
and like it’s cool n all but at the same time it just means this

[rustic heron]

The real lore is always in the replies.

[thorn spade]

also what is that big round flame birds name again i forgot

[frigid tinsel]

Megabird

[rustic heron]

I just had a thought. All the ancestors died, but none of them moved on until we came along.

Are Skykids the concept of Death in Sky? Is that why we can travel between the world of spirits and the real world, entering and exiting dreams as easily as breathing?

[thorn spade]

OH YEAAAHH THANKS

[delicate anvil]

Big round flame bird?? /gen

[frigid tinsel]

Skykids are psychopomps, not death itself but like henchmen if that’s the word

[thorn spade]

i think theres a mural of it near the office portal, its like the god in sky world i forgot

[fickle wing]

HELP

[fickle wing]

THEM BIG OL EYES I CANT

[rustic heron]

The enirety of Sky takes place in a candle. This is canon.

[delicate anvil]

Ah, okay-
seems like I've missed out on quite a bit ever since my 3 months break?

[thorn spade]

the world is money.. haha get it candles are sky currency

[rustic heron]

Stop looking at me with 'em big ol' eyes.

[delicate anvil]

it might've been 5-6 months actually

[keen shore]

Hey, do you think the apocalypse was actually caused by someone claiming Megabird as their fursona?

[rustic heron]

King's fursona is the Megabird confirmed.

Daleth: My child, this obsession is not healthy. You are not "ephemeral bird-deity" kin. It is time to rule your people and move on from this phase.
King: It's not a phase, Dad! Transforms into a spiritual being made of pure light

[lofty void]

Oh what a terrible day to have eyes

[rustic heron]

Vault Elder: Enters their room
King: Looks back in surprise, wearing Vault Elder's dress and hood, and putting eyeliner on their mask
Vault Elder: Leaves the room

[jolly anchor]

WHAT DID I WALK IN ON😭

[keen shore]

Your eyes have been blessed.don’t worry about it

[rustic heron]

Forest Elder: Sighs It's been a long day. Now, to have a little bit of fur fun~
King: Looks backed shocked, halfway inside Forest Elder's fursuit
Forest Elder: Paw-ses, then joins him

[thorn spade]

furry duo

[jolly anchor]

THANK YOU IG?

[keen shore]

Forest elder is the reason so many spirits wear animal masks (they are furries as well)

[frigid tinsel]

I’m going outside.
It’s 20F but I need to rest my eyes.

[jolly anchor]

In order to be an elder you have to be a furry too ig

[rustic heron]

Prairie Elder: Having fun feeding birds
King: Joins the birds in MEgabird fursuit
Prairie Elder: Pretends he does not see

[wind sluice]

I LOVE THIS SO MUCH

[rustic heron]

Do ancestors lay eggs?

[delicate anvil]

Yes

[rustic heron]

You don't know what you've done.

Ancestors have cloacae confirmed.

[half shadow]

no they reproduce via mitosis

[sharp lichen]

WHAT IS WITH YOU

[rustic heron]

There are eggs in the game, Baudshaw. Someone laid them. Who was it?

[rapid arrow]

I come in here to see do "ancsestors lay eggs" and now I'm questioning entering this chat-

[frigid tinsel]

Ancestors aren’t that big tho

[frigid tinsel]

I came back from a ten minute walk in freezing temperatures and now reconsidering going back out

[sharp lichen]

They are rocks that look like eggs.

[keen shore]

If ancestors are biological, they are mammals. I would give evidence but I’m not sure it would go over well in this server

[rustic heron]

I reject that on the premise that it's probably the laziest way of explaining the existence of the eggs. I'm half joking.

[frigid tinsel]

Mammals aren’t biological!? Nfkdlld

[sharp lichen]

I refuse to believe anything else, so it’s my go-to

[keen shore]

Unfortunately ancestors cannot lay egg :(

Also Alasdair you may need to reread my message

[fickle wing]

are you talking abt those eggs by the forest temple?

[frigid tinsel]

My eyes froze out there

[rustic heron]

Yes. The explanations range from "easter eggs" or "rocks".

[keen shore]

Understandable, happens to me all the time. I got worried I mistyped and had to check several times though lol

[sharp lichen]

Is the Easter Bunny canon in Sky? Is Easter canon in Sky? Is Jes-

[lofty void]

jesus in sky canon.

[frigid tinsel]

The Chosen One/prince/king has been compared to Lucifer and the Antichrist so maybe

[fickle wing]

those are most likely a reference to one of the inspirations for the forest elder actually since iirc there’s a handful of similarities between the elders n Sumerian gods
4 teth the most likely one seems to b ishar who’s symbols include painted eggs

[rustic heron]

Boogie Kid is Jesus confirmed.

[frigid tinsel]

The Ishtar = eggs thing is very likely not true. That was a retcon from a 20th century paganist

[fickle wing]

that may not b true but like that’s not the main point im getting @ here

[rustic heron]

Geez, are we getting into Babylonian mythology already? This is like the third stage of lore evolution. The next one is eldritch horrors, culminating into cross-franchise lore developed by Matpat.

[sharp lichen]

This channel will officially end the day Matpat makes a video about Sky

[frigid tinsel]

Careful speaking that name here

[compact shale]

That video will probably become the next inside joke of lorechat for how bad it is

[fickle wing]

also there’s the thing w dumuzid/ishtar and ayin/teth that sky interpreted as friendship instead

[rustic heron]

Waiting on that "Sans is Skykids" theory video.

[frigid tinsel]

Today in lorechat: had a fight, reunited over furry elder & king, dabbled into Babylonian mythos

[rigid mural]

what fight

[rustic heron]

The only thing we're missing is the huge lore revelatione someone is bound to have any minute.

[rigid mural]

what did i miss, there was a fight ?

[keen shore]

Eggs are still a weird quandary because if we say that they came from light creatures then light creatures have to be biological enough to lay eggs. Maybe they’re preserved holdovers from possible non light animals??? The pattern on them definitely makes them look painted though

[frigid tinsel]

Fight***

[keen shore]

FIGHT CREATURES ?

[rustic heron]

Illegal crab fighting rings.

[frigid tinsel]

Okay that’s enough psychic damage for one day, gonna play sky

[keen shore]

Fight creatures sound like really bad off brand Pokémon

[rustic heron]

Don't forget to do your dailies, your full realm cr, and your weekly Eden run if you haven't already ❤️

[frigid tinsel]

Did Eden and dailies, just gonna vibe

[rustic heron]

Add to me your friendship constellation.

How do boats made of stone float in Sky?

[white junco]

magic

[rustic heron]

I can actually say that isn't true because the Abyss boat has 0 magic energy because the diamonds are depleted, and yet it floats.

[keen shore]

The darkstone crystals help them levitate :3

[fickle wing]

there’s irl stone boats

[white junco]

yeah buoyancy is wack

[rustic heron]

So, those boats are made of concrete, which actually has many little posckets of air. You can design it so that the displacement of water by the boat is equivalent to the pressure it puts on the water because concrete's density is low.

Is Darkstone like concrete? Is that how diamonds are made?

[keen shore]

Also fun fact, the levitation aspect of darkstone works without them needing to be charged. This is how the floating platforms in valley and vault work, despite the fact that they are disks and are bright blue + uncharged

[rigid mural]

hrng... conk crete

[fickle wing]

concrete is the forbidden snack

[white junco]

speaking of stone boats, why did the ancestors decide to carve their huge boats out of stone instead of using, I dunno, wood. that they had access to. they had lumberjacks and carpenters, surely they could've made boats

[half shadow]

i’ve never considered the eggs canon because just looking at them i thought it was pretty clearly just a fun “easter egg”

[rigid mural]

maybe the wood boats rotted away, plus stone looks more resistant to air travel than wood

[rustic heron]

I'm rejecting this because the Easter Bunny kicked my butt and stole my childhood innocence.

[white junco]

they're an easter egg yeah. they're fun little leftovers from a daily quest in light awaits, where you had to "visit the eagle's nest"

[rigid mural]

martha eggs

[fickle wing]

i miss martha

[rustic heron]

The likeliest explanation is that they are just a cool little easter egg, and it makes sad.

[rigid mural]

ME TOO

[fickle wing]

martha

[half shadow]

noot noot

[rustic heron]

I'd love a whole update that revamps the wildlife of Sky. You could even include accompanying cosmetics to make it appealing.

[fickle wing]

bonkers how we saw em in those flight spirit things but never again </3

[keen shore]

The only two seasons the was supposed to appear in was rhythm (actually appeared) and flight (in character art) Wonder if that means they’re connected somehow / same timeline

[rustic heron]

There's no quest guide for rhythm, right? I've never seen those custscenes before.

[harsh pecan]

Hello Lapis, are you ready to answer? (Also there is a quest guide but no seasonal quests)

[fickle wing]

there is a guide
they don’t show up in the end cutscene though

[rustic heron]

I'll start arguing about concept art being canon to the lore if you ask me again. /j (or am I?)

[harsh pecan]

I want the hair

[fickle wing]

also shoutout to this pic love this fruity little troupe of bird folks

[keen shore]

There’s a semi common theory that rhythm guide can somehow turn into the bird and that’s why they don’t appear together. Not sure how reasonable it is but it would have very neat implications when combined with flight concept art

[rustic heron]

Is there any way for newer players to experience these seasons fully?

[fickle wing]

rhythm troupe is literally just a gaggle of gay theatre kids and their giant bird

[harsh pecan]

The Director just sitting there like that looks cool for some reason

[rapid arrow]

Aight thats what im calling my theatre group now-

[fickle wing]

but like fr tho the troupe is just 🏳️‍🌈
like y’all seen director n acolyte in vault? im just saying

[lofty void]

gay ☺️

[half zealot]

absolutely

[fickle wing]

you can pry the idea that the end bit of the director mask pin poem is them @ acolyte from my cold dead hands

[half shadow]

Speaking of concept art oh my god I need more abyss concept art I wanna see how they developed the leviathan so badly

[formal skiff]

YESSSSSSSS

I LOVE LEVI SO HECKING MUUUUUUUUCCCCCHHHHHHH

[honest mantle]

is there a message I can be linked to that gives me a rundown of this elderbird thing?
or will I have to do some chat digging?

[half shadow]

There’s not really any rundown available tbh, we really have nothing about it outside of the rhythm cutscene and concept art

[twin blade]

also i saw you asking in #questions-and-help so mentioning just in case, elderbird is not the same thing as megabird

[elder geode]

i saw u ask in qnh abt megabird
as far as i know, megabird is believed to be the god? in Sky
elder bird and megabird is different.... i think.... im not very active in lore channel

[honest mantle]

I assumed they were interchangeable. if not my apologies

[elder geode]

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[frigid tinsel]

for comparison, this is an elder bird: #lore-discussion-spoilers message
and this: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[elder geode]

so owl hair is actually elderbird hair?

[honest mantle]

ah okay thank you very much @elder geode and @frigid tinsel I appreciate the help

[rapid arrow]

What is the wingspan of a skykids cape. I need it for a project?

[half shadow]

depends on the cape I think

[narrow crescent]

This really depends on the skykid’s height and what cape they’re using.
I think there is a skykid height chart that also has units (I think it’s in imperial, though could be metric) along with it, though I don’t have the link and I don’t know where it is.
Using that and prayer level 3 emote can help you figure out the cape’s dimensions.

[rapid arrow]

Ah ok, I think I might just make it to my arm lenght. Sewing poject-

[narrow crescent]

I think it’s a couple of inches beyond arms length on each side for default cape style
source: deep call.

[frigid tinsel]

Height calculations: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

Based on that last pic, the base cape reaches just above their calves, under their knees

[rustic heron]

So, Sky kids have human proportions, which means their figertip to fingertip span is the same as their height.
And since the standard cape goes from tip to tip when flying, we can say the wingspan of a skykid is about the same as their height.

[narrow crescent]

This may help a bit. T pose skykid.

[rapid arrow]

So 5'3 add on a couple of inches and I'm set Thank you

[frigid tinsel]

You’re taller than the Vault Elder

[narrow crescent]

If that’s the case I must be a giant to them o.o
Skids are heccin ants.

[frigid tinsel]

Vault Elder is 5' 2"

yea skykids are small. the tallest they can be (sans tall spell) is 3' 11" or 4' depending on who you ask

[rustic heron]

Based on the proportions of a table measured against a game award in a virutal office that might not be to scale.
I haven't found anything that can be used as a more concrete measure of heihgt, however.

[frigid tinsel]

it's the best we got and I'm not doing the math

[hard delta]

@rapid arrow which cape are you intending to make though?

[rustic heron]

The main reason why I haven't done this myself is because of that reason. I'm looking for some universal constant that correlates to the universe of Sky that relates to length. I can then extend that to the height of sky kids, but this is proving difficult.

[rapid arrow]

I think alchemist cape though I might switch it out of the cherry blossom cape overall I’ll need 3 yards of fabric

[rustic heron]

I've done something similar to calculate the root of the circumfrence of Peridot's butt.

[frigid tinsel]

of course you have, Lapis

[rustic heron]

I have the reddit comment where I did the calculation.

[hard delta]

Personally I wouldn't go into heavy math. I'd just recommend you pin-point where cape reaches and ends in the sky-kid body height that you pick as your source

[half shadow]

ye just eyeball it

[hard delta]

It's just easier to figure out your own proportions rather than calculate it and go crazy afterwards

[rustic heron]

Or do the math cause math is fun and cool.

[formal skiff]

My friend made the moth cape (because it’s so unironically adorable) and they were able to eyeball a pattern into existence. They used fleece for the outside and muslin as the lining and sewed the stars on.

[rapid arrow]

That’s what I’m doing! I need 2 yards of the darker purple which is 6’ and then 1 yard of the light purple which is 3’.

I can do math just prefer not too.

[formal skiff]

Math IS fun and cool!!!! :D /g

[frigid tinsel]

math is fun and cool until you're forced to do it and the numbers and calculations drive you mad.
aka why I didn't do math in college.

[hard delta]

Math is fun and cool but it's not really practical and efficient enough to go for it

[formal skiff]

it’s just fun overall for me :)))

[rapid arrow]

But anyways. Might just get the two yards of a colour fabric. Do the thing and paint a design on-

[rustic heron]

Do the math, do the math.

[tulip aspen]

supports @compact shale's idea that ancestors could've reincarnated into other kinds of beings of light

[half shadow]

dyscalculiac here. i’m literally diagnosed with bad at math syndrome

[formal skiff]

Wow so old /j

[tulip aspen]

oh wow thats a thing? i should check if i have that too lolol/j

[hard delta]

It's not we this time, it's just you Lapis, im sorry to break it to you

[rustic heron]

Go to your room.

[hard delta]

MOOOOOOOM pleaaaaaaseee

[frigid tinsel]

it's a real thing. it's like dyslexia with numbers. in fact it's often cormorbid with dyslexia. my other brother has both.

[dark flame]

please don't reveal your age/age ranges to keep yourselves safe online

[formal skiff]

Ok, sorry!

[rustic heron]

I'm an adult.

[dark flame]

yes

[rustic heron]

Fair enough.

[half shadow]

yeah, it inhibits basically all forms of mathematical reasoning beyond the basics. it also affects my ability to remember and visualize maps, make estimations of size or volume, and other things that require computation. so whenever anybody starts talking about calculating height in sky i’m just cheering on the sidelines understanding absolutely none of it but very happy for them regardless

[formal skiff]

I am ||playing Sky ||

[rigid mural]

oh wow, people suspect im dyscalculic too

[frigid tinsel]

this would not be the first time people discovered their health condition or neurodivergency on Discord.
source: found out I'm allergic to eggs thanks to Discord (not in lorechat).

[rustic heron]

You actually probably shouldn't be telling people your age. Creeps are everywhere these days. Discord has been in the spotlight for not cracking down on keeping kids safe on their platform.

[formal skiff]

Lorechat serves many functions

[rustic heron]

Well, the same goes for most social media.

[formal skiff]

True, fixed it! Ty!

Edit responding to lapis: I’m not on any other social media platforms (by choice tbh) so discord is basically my only concern in that realm

[half shadow]

tfw i’ve collected all of the dyses of dyslexia duscalculia and dysgraphia god had to nerf me hardcore if i could do math i would never stop using it to figure things out in video games i like lmao

[rustic heron]

I'll be your math brain.

[half shadow]

you’re a kid now, you’re a skid now

inklings and skykids would be friends that’s the theory

[rapid arrow]

My brain has two funtions, art and sky headcannons/lore :D

[frigid tinsel]

my high school had an aggressive math regimen which burned me out of math for going on five years now. i miss fun math

[half shadow]

fun math is whatever i can count on my fingers anything else is unfun

[rapid arrow]

Excuse as I just say one headcannon because its been rattinling in my brain like a cattoy. in the past there were big balls and banquets that were held.. why? idk I just feel like they happened

[formal skiff]

Lorechat is here to bring you back to fun math

[frigid tinsel]

if skykids weren't illiterate, could they do math?

[rustic heron]

Are skykids illiterate?

[formal skiff]

I mean we can’t read the vault writing

[frigid tinsel]

there's some writing in the game we have no idea how to read. skykids are never seen writing themselves. no one has taught them how to read. skykids haven't coined their own writing system. so they're illiterate

[rapid arrow]

I cant read the the pictures that appear on the stones (forgot word) so my skykid might be illiterate

[formal skiff]

Next up: Sky kids design a writing system!

[half shadow]

it’s just pictures

[frigid tinsel]

the most "reading" skykids do are always pictures – murals, maps, symbols.

[half shadow]

actually, do books even exist? outside of the one in TLP

[frigid tinsel]

Timid Bookworm is holding a book.
and before yall get on me about about Sanctuary not being wholly canon, I know I know.

[half shadow]

OH duh, totally forgot about them

[frigid tinsel]

if the ancestors had other books, the paper and binding probably would've decomposed by now.

[formal skiff]

My guess is either

1. all of them were destroyed in the disaster (edit: oh right they can be destroyed just by time lol)
2. those two instances aren’t canon fsr

I feel like if books were more of a thing they’d appear in vault, no?

[tulip aspen]

we have to keep you saaaaafe

[rapid arrow]

Plus what are the the things on the shelves in the vault?

[frigid tinsel]

memory cubes. supposedly they store memories, but we can't open them

[tulip aspen]

they both are physically fluid

squid gender fluid skid form fluid

[rapid arrow]

If we could open them the image that just popped up in my head is you crack them open like a sunflower seed

[frigid tinsel]

functioning memory cube in zhao's concepts.
i'm hoping for a Vault season where we get to open one

[rapid arrow]

I would absoultly love a vault season. .

[half shadow]

I really dig the memory cubes, I’m believing it as canon until further notice

[rapid arrow]

And I have some stuff that I notcied in the vault. In the cube room it looks a lot like the command centre from castle in the sky so maybe theres something with that.

[half shadow]

Yknow what heres a theory. Jellyfish come from light shrooms/light plants like how real jellyfish are born from polyps

[rustic heron]

I was alluding to this yesterday. The relation is hard to ignore. +1 from me.

[rustic heron]

Stop saying skid fluid. /j

[frigid tinsel]

there's a small faction here who muses over how skykids would bleed. i'm not one of them but yknow

[wild ravine]

I honestly thought that the sky kids were made of fire since fire fills up the wings

[rustic heron]

Are we sky kids, or are we dancers?

[frigid tinsel]

skykids are powered by light, relying on their flame inside them and winged light if their flame goes out.

[half shadow]

all you need to know about skykid anatomy is that skykids are just little guys

[rustic heron]

The perfect height for dunking.

[wild ravine]

So are the skykids made of 100% light or is it something else with light?

[rustic heron]

Clay and, presumably, cloth. A little bit of love.

[frigid tinsel]

here's my working theory on the composition of a skykid
—clothing, hair, masks & other cosmetics made of light.
—a humanoid physical shell made of some magic-induced earthen material (i.e. clay, stone, ash, or charcoal) that has a hole in the chest.
—this hollow shell is full of light, such as winged light and neutral light.
—their flame, manifesting as the light in the hole in their chest and held outside their bodies via a red candle.
—their soul, appearing as a blue sparkle.

someday I'll have a doc that goes into more detail

[half shadow]

they have those little hearts you put in your build a bear inside of them

[wild ravine]

Thanks for making me imagine my build a bear coming alive

[rustic heron]

Sky kids do have a heartbeat.

[frigid tinsel]

yea can't explain that.
worth noting you can only hear it if they're under duress, like actively dying

[rustic heron]

Or when you're holding hands.

[keen shore]

It’s okay, I’m good at math so I’ll do it… if I can think of a thing to compare it to that we 100% know the height of. The current game award comparison is fine but a bit flawed as it could have been down scaled so we could light the candles better

[rustic heron]

Yes, we must use our math brains to aid those who cannot. Finding universal constants that can easily be translated to Sky isn't as easy, however.

[half shadow]

you can easily explain the heartbeat with this one neat trick: it’s magic

[frigid tinsel]

that's honestly what I'm leaning towards

[rustic heron]

Every time we use magic as an explanation for in-game phenomena, Matpat gets one step closer to making a lore video on Sky.

[half shadow]

I’m gonna keep doing it so I have the chance to fight him in hand to hand combat

but honestly, sometimes I really think the way certain things work in Sky isn’t any much deeper than “it’s magic.” Like the spirits for example

[frigid tinsel]

there's the "it's magic" handwaving explanation, then there's the "it's magic but there's got to be a magic system" explanation – which is me. there's a magic system that dictates the entities of Sky's ability to live and I will figure it out

[wild ravine]

I know we can play music and the first instament I think is a harp so maybe we are related to angles?

[frigid tinsel]

fun fact: my first instrument was the drums

[keen shore]

The pulsing might be explainable by the concept where the inner shell is melted enough by a skykid’s flame to move, so it’s the soft part pulsing with their movements

Alternatively, the skykid is so injured that they don’t have the energy to stop their inner flame from burning away their outer shell anymore and they start to melt

[late wasp]

I'm pretty sure they do know mathematics.
The Info page within the game explains "currencies" in the Sky world.
Note the usage of "Sky world" instead of just "Sky" or "in the game". Meaning they are also currencies within that universe, lorewise.

Sky Kids perfectly uses currencies displaying proper knowledge of mathematics and planning ahead.

[keen shore]

Skykids could do addition and subtraction but if you asked them to find the area of a circle they’d start crying

[late wasp]

Everything in the game is canon. People that are selective about it are just rejecting the facts or unable to think for in game explanations.

But yeah, books also make an appearance in the Starlight Desert and at least Paper makes an appearance in Season of Abyss, showing that books are naturally canon.

[narrow crescent]

Stated in pinned comment that what is canon and what isn’t is up to interpretation of the individual.

[sharp lichen]

So, can I just say that the entirety of Sky is just a dream and win the award of the “worst theory”

[narrow crescent]

If you really believe it, yes.
Though it’s a huge stretch and probably wouldn’t be a theory with good foundation and would probably be declined on various levels.

[harsh pecan]

I think you know what I’ll say

[late wasp]

Stated by a mod, TGC employees say there is a lore bible and are often talking about the story they want us to uncover.
Moderation team does not work in developing Sky lore. That statement was likely just a way to tell us to be friendly to people.

In fact, a huge chunk of the last few livestreams were about this: uncovering the story. Meaning, there is a story to be uncovered.

[narrow crescent]

Possibly.

[sharp lichen]

I do think that the narrative is far more important than technically being true. Although it could be true that the entirety of Sky is a dream, it would harm the story in too much ways.

[frigid tinsel]

it's happening

[narrow crescent]

yesssss

[stable veldt]

Im tempted to illustrate anatomy

[frigid tinsel]

yea, I'm more of the kind that takes things at face-value unless there is evidence to the contrary. while there was a dev statement that said Season of Sanctuary wasn't wholly canon and Season of The Little Prince was a collab, I'm not interested in debating what's real and not real to the game. evidently, the devs work things into the world of Sky regardless of the source material, so I'm more inclined to take these as wholly canon.

and yea, I don't see why the ancestors wouldn't have books. whether they be bounded books or scrolls or whatever, most civilizations have a writing system and a way to record said writing, so the ancestors likely had books in addition to what you've mentioned

[keen shore]

This is not true. Off the top of my head, office is DEFINITELY not canon despite being in the game. Entirety of starlight desert is an odd mix of canon and non canon that’s difficult to decipher, considering the description for the area literally calls it “dreamlike” and it’s hard to tell which traits come from which story. A good portion of season of sanctuary is noncanon, especially timid bookworm’s book (which resembles ours) and the cosmetics, although the story itself is most likely canon.

Moving to game mechanics, aspects of the game are canon and which are simply game mechanics are also up for debate. If candles and hearts are the sole currency we use, having to bribe people to be friends with them seems a bit odd, although not unprovable. Same thing with some realms having more candle cakes depending on the day, and the concept of daily quests in general

[late wasp]

ok, so why is Office is not canon?

[stable veldt]

Dev confirmed to be non canon and instead it's just a neat easter egg to sky

[frigid tinsel]

well yea the Office isn't canon. I mean, look at it, doesn't fit the aesthetic of the rest of the Sky world

[late wasp]

Have they?

[keen shore]

…I’m not trying to be mean here, but did you think computers and tvs were canon to the sky world??

[stable veldt]

I think they did, though i forgor where. If they havent and im just making things up, sorry in advance

[late wasp]

Like I said in that post, being selective about what is canon or not only shows a lack of creativity. Doesn't matter if it fits the rest of the aesthetic.

I've pointed out how the Starlight Desert is subtitled "where dream worlds collide" showing that place is a fusion of two or more dimensions intersecting.

Office can easily be explained as another world colliding into the world of Sky. Furthermore, Yui Tanabe intentionally showed the Office's placement in his map of the Sky Kingdom.

Office is canon.

Tried searching for devs statement on the Office and found nothing.
Again, Office is likely just another dimension crashing in into the world of Sky.

[rustic heron]

Screw the devs. We’re taking charge of Sky’s lore now.

Lore chat anarchy.

[wary raptor]

I think the office is just probably modled after the dev's real office just changed up a bit to fit into the sky world more

(On another note I never realized how sad the tearful miners story is🙃)

[keen shore]

I am too tired to search for the dev statement at the moment, or to be called uncreative because of my first instinct being that computers and TVs do not exist in sky, much less behind a door that you have to unlock by wearing a certain cape. We can revisit this conversation tomorrow, just know that not everything in game has to be or is reasonable to be canon.

Here is a list of other things that exist as a gameplay mechanic but are questionable in lore canon:

• adventure passes (or any iaps)
• constellation gates
• daily quests
• entirety of home (I lean more towards this being canon, although it has weird implications)
• having a mask that changes your height - less obvious, still a bit odd - is there a spell hidden in the mask or something?
• timed events (ie days of fortune dragon appearing)
• being able to relive spirits multiple times (might be explainable, still odd)

[late wasp]

it's weird, because they all seem like stuff that work within the lore imo
like how constellation gates had a massive lore drop with the last quest in Season of Abyss showing those barriers

[keen shore]

…adventure passes seem like things that work within the lore?

[frigid tinsel]

the question lorechat constantly grapples with is what's true in universe, what's a game mechanic, and what's a technology limitation

[wary raptor]

He was basically trapped in the area you can find him in and he slowly watched all three of his friends die then had to make head markers for them leaving him all alone :(

[keen shore]

Not to mention constellation gates work completely differently than the anti krill barriers; are only similar in being transparent force fields. One needs darkstone to function. The other does not, requires you to relive a certain amount of spirits before you enter them (or fulfill other requirements such as wearing a certain cape) and you can enter and exit them via candle

[late wasp]

yup, but it shows force fields are something within the universe / lore, not just some mechanic.
now it is up to us and our creativity to work out how constellation gates work within the lore.
this is a more fruitful endeavor than giving up and being selective imo.

[half shadow]

honestly I don’t see a reason why there would be these obstructive force fields keeping important parts of the kingdom separate during the times of the ancestors, so if they were an in-lore thing they’d have to be from post-storm. also, my stance on the canon nature of office is that it’s not canon because the npcs there directly mention the developers

[rustic heron]

I’m gonna double down with you and connect adventure passes to the lore. Will it work? Probably not. Are we going to do it anyway? You bet your sorry skids we are.

[keen shore]

I also don’t see how putting in so much effort and bending over backwards to explain stuff that doesn’t make sense to be in the lore will help us in general. I mean, you can do it if you want, but it doesn’t really connect to anything else. It doesn’t really matter if adventure passes are canon or not, because even if they were, they wouldn’t explain or change anything by existing

[rustic heron]

Adventure passes are pyramid schemes designed by spirits to capitalize on naive Skykids to trick them out of more seasonal candles.

Boom.

[junior epoch]

So seasonal candles are cheaper versions of normal candles and in time they mature into normal candles?

[frigid tinsel]

games usually have one or two currencies.
Sky has 5.

[rustic heron]

Seasonal candles are scented based on the season they represent.

[half shadow]

my pure sweet skykid will never experience capitalism

[rustic heron]

If you have ever bought anything from a spirit, you've experienced the exact reason why the Ancestors got obliterated.

[half shadow]

the kingdom fell because capitalism thats it that’s the lore

[jovial nacelle]

i found this-

[rustic heron]

WAIT I GOT IT. SEASON PASSES ARE JUST THE REMENANTS OF THE TAX LAW THE KING PUT IN PLACE TO FUND HIS EDEN PROJECT.

[keen shore]

Just saw an Instagram post asking for people to join their sky lore group chat. I am struggling to fight the urge to join and start describing some of the complex and surprising theories from here

Like just post “Vault Isn’t Real” and immediately leave without any context. I’m not going to do it because of social anxiety, but it is hilarious to imagine

[jovial nacelle]

ooo, sounds interesting even though i also have the same theory

[rustic heron]

Tell them about blessing theory.

[junior epoch]

And the scent wears of when the season ends and they turn back into normal candles

[frigid tinsel]

should let them know that Forest Elder is a furry. very important information

[keen shore]

Everyone in the group chat trying to discuss spirit personalities before getting blasted with an essay post describing in detail the length, weight, and uses of wasteland spears

[jovial nacelle]

don't forget darkstone lore theorists

[junior epoch]

İdk I'm just trying to find a way how seasonal candles turn into normal ones

[half shadow]

THIS IS FROM WORLD OF WARCRAFT. sorry to shout that’s like my number one game and it was so unexpected to see here lmao

[jovial nacelle]

OH

[half shadow]

I was reading it fine until the word “Dalaran” and my whole brain rebooted

[compact shale]

I don't know if you're still here, but there IS that one spirit with a book in Forest. And there's Timid Bookworm too. We definitely have evidence for ancestors having books.

[compact shale]

I got recommended the lorestagram too. I forgot to save it tho. :(

[compact shale]

I'm really not sure if that's my idea. I don't like the idea of humanlike memories being trapped in a birby body.

[frigid tinsel]

interesting. which spirit or spirit's memories do they appear in?

[compact shale]

Apologetic Lumberjack's memories iirc.

It's a basegame Forest spirit, though I'm not sure if it's book guy or tote bag who appears there.

Memory's not that good here.

[rustic heron]

Why aren't books canon?

[keen shore]

They’re not shown anywhere but two seasons whose canon-ness is debated a lot, plus the logic is that they’d get replaced by memory lanterns because they’re more convenient. You can go into more logic about wood being only used for temporary items like shelves because it rots really quickly when exposed to cloud moisture, so the books wouldn’t last long, but I’m not really sure if the devs would consider that when adding in books, so take it with a grain of salt

[compact shale]

TLP will probably never get confirmed for its exact canon boundaries because like its source material, it is very much up to your interpretation, but they can reveal Sanctuary's canon boundaries sometime, right?

[rustic heron]

Easy fix: The Ancestors laminated all their books.

[keen shore]

“Hey, why are you covering each page in that… uh… what do you call it, plastic? you know there’s a memory lantern right here, right?”
“LEAVE ME ALONE I WANT TO SMELL THE PAGES”
“Okay, dad”

[compact shale]

I vaguely remember a basegame spirit memory featuring a random civilian with a book, but it doesn't look like our books, more like a stone tablet shaped like a book

except I mostly forgor who it was so I need to ask some spirit experts

[rustic heron]

"Okay Elder "

[keen shore]

I don’t remember anything like that but I could have just forgotten about it/not noticed. Do you remember what realm it was in??

[compact shale]

I think it was Forest. Alasdair, how was your field research??

[frigid tinsel]

oh I haven't opened Sky. i played for 4 hours today already

[rustic heron]

Always the dedicated researcher.

[frigid tinsel]

I'll do it now, my eyes are tired from looking at a white google doc. couldn't find a way to turn google doc into dark mode.

[compact shale]

HAHAHHGSHAHAHHAHA DARK MODE SUPREMACY

[keen shore]

I believe there’s an area called page layout or something similar where you can make the background black, and then just color the font white. There definitely is on mobile but can’t remember if it translates to computer

[frigid tinsel]

the alternative is typing up the anatomy doc in Word cos I got dark mode there and uploading it to Google Drive but that'll affect the formating and just hhhhhhh

[rustic heron]

Ew, Word. No, don't do that. Do this instead: https://www.howtogeek.com/721117/how-to-turn-on-dark-mode-in-google-docs/

[compact shale]

aw i was about to do that /lh

[tulip aspen]

please do im currently not in a good relationship with ancestors right now

[frigid tinsel]

i use Firefox and on MacOS

[tulip aspen]

bru we're both writing one at the same time lmao, hopefully yours is better

[compact shale]

Isn't your "anatomy doc" just a small subchapter of the light creature doc?

[keen shore]

Ancestors possibly being biological is one of the reasons I was talking about biological animals existing prestorm, because if a bunch of other creatures existed that functioned the same way, it wouldn’t make ancestors these weird beings that just kinda existed on their own with organs

You could even go a different route, and say that ancestors were made wayyy different from other light creatures so they could have free will instead of only being influenced by their light

[compact shale]

On the third day, God Megabird blessed their creation with internal organs.

[frigid tinsel]

will it be this detailed

[keen shore]

Squish :-)

[tulip aspen]

of the "beings of light" doc yea

i actually wont be giving light creatures much attention in that doc because they're moreso a part of the cycle of light, so ill talk about them in the megabird doc more, just ancestors and skykids this time

[keen shore]

I cannot write a Google doc without it being organized beyond reason. Hence why the mural master list has a code and everything

[tulip aspen]

it wasnt a competition so idk-

[frigid tinsel]

no my friend showed up and completed the spirituhsdbfalrbshdbaflhsdbj sefdxnm,

[rustic heron]

https://allthings.how/how-to-enable-dark-mode-in-google-docs/#:~:text=Enabling Dark Mode in Google Docs on Firefox,%2C type 'Dark reader'.

[rustic heron]

Sounds like loser talk /j.

[compact shale]

@frigid tinsel check these guys when you have time

[frigid tinsel]

wasn;t showing off, just showing that i'm making bad decisions informed by sleep deprivation

[rapid arrow]

I am excited to read all the docs and take notes so once again I can explain to me friend in details everything

[compact shale]

How do yall give your docs those "table of contents" things?

all of mine are accidental

[frigid tinsel]

messing with text and giving them headings

[rustic heron]

Your decisions are better when you’re sleep deprived. The hallucinations can help you theorise better, giving you the edge.

[frigid tinsel]

friend literally showed up just to complete the spirit memories before i could photograph them and left. they have to be one of you. i'm being trolled.

[tulip aspen]

there's an option with the right click, but itll automatically add them to the table when you upsize the font and underline it

[rustic heron]

When you add title to a doc, the doc will automatically create a guide to organise them. Titles can be made using ctrl + alt + <insert a number here>

[compact shale]

has anyone came and lored under the influence of- *gets muffled

[tulip aspen]

i didnt want to talk about skykids until i talked about ancestors, but i cant talk about ancestors if im still so unsure what they actually are physically and anatomically

i got everyone to agree generally on the clayshell theory, and that was phenomenal, but ancestors-

[rustic heron]

Do you guys want other docs shortcuts?

[frigid tinsel]

omg it worked, this is exactly what I've been looking for, Lapis you are a godsent

[rustic heron]

Of course. Took you long enough to notice.

[frigid tinsel]

i left my skid in the rain and had to deal with that

[compact shale]

Alasdair || Soggy Lore

[tulip aspen]

im so beat, i cant write about ancestors until i think about this better

i need to come up with better arguments for the ancestor-clayshell theory, and then listen to all the biological evidence (and not just the 'oh yeah it says they eat haha')

[keen shore]

I have evidence off the top of my head but it’s gonna sound really incoherent do you want it anyways

[tulip aspen]

yes please

[compact shale]

strangely enough we haven't seen the abyss spirits use the lebreather mask (yes I'm spelling it like that lmao)

[rustic heron]

Don't forget about the breathing holes on the bottom of the sky kids feet.

[keen shore]

Ancestors have rebreathers (need functioning respiratory system)
Ancestors need to eat (need functional digestive system)
Ancestors can be killed in ways ancestors cannot, ie fainting warrior (ancestors are squishy?)
Ancestors need shelter (houses)

[compact shale]

Just pretend this is an infinite supply

Edit:
"Ancestors can be killed in ways ancestors cannot" ????

[tulip aspen]

yea its either gonna be a dreams moment where the guide having important story cosmetics just implies things (they were a dancer too) or its gonna be that the abyss guide will be seen diving in pt 5 which would be pretty cool

to me i think it just implies they were the one diving and the missions are just us following in their footsteps they took in the past

[compact shale]

Awwwww

I wonder if any of the other ancestors think that we ARE in fact, the Abyss Guide

Like from their POV they just see a weird Abyss Guide and not us

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAH

[keen shore]

Ancestors are not afraid of heights (may not have bones)

[rustic heron]

Are Sky kids based or basic?

[frigid tinsel]

realizing the friend who messed with my field research was a chibi which explains a lot

[compact shale]

basic probably

[rustic heron]

Sky kids buy coffee at Starbucks.

[keen shore]

Ancestor body types can vary much more than skykids (unknown if tech limitation or evidence)

[frigid tinsel]

So thats why i never noticed this guy before

[compact shale]

Are you kidding? Our candle wallets are empty after Grouch and the Black Friday bug. /lh

[keen shore]

It’s kind of book and kind of Rectangle. I can’t tell whether it’s like hard cover with pages inside or stone tablet
Also why is it just floating in midair

[rustic heron]

Not me. I skipped those and saved my candles for some pants. I almost have 500 after Grouch.

[keen shore]

Real question, WHY do ancestors like diamonds so much. Every base game spirit has one on their clothes. Diamonds are everywhere in lattice work and even on this book. Calm down. Find a new shape that isn’t a triangle

[compact shale]

king prop-

[tulip aspen]

(i wont ping you cos i know you shouldnt overwork urself this late, just contemplating how good these each are for myself)

1. skykids can use same rebreathers for similar effects when we know skykids dont need air, they need light that is taken by being submerged and given back by light activity (creatures, wax, deepcalls)

2. i still think ancestors (may need to) absorb light from small beings because we have no proof biological creatures existed, only light creatures

3. ancestors are not confirmed to be squishy, skykids are only strong because the winged light protects them, acting as their shield:
   without a single winged light you can be sent to the pity room by a single crab

4. ancestors need shelter because they lived long term in the kingdom, skykids can travel anywhere they want very quickly, ancestors dont have that luxury, so they set up camps when they get tired of travel

[keen shore]

Has ANYONE taught them about circles or hexagons or even squares yet. Like at all. Do they know other shapes exist

[compact shale]

Someone theorized that the way lebreathers work for us is that the power diamond stores some extra light we can draw upon

[tulip aspen]

i think that may be the point (as my personal view of what's happening)

[keen shore]

I get these shapes mean something in the sky world but can they be a bit more creative please. This is like if everyone in the us wore shirts with squares on them

[frigid tinsel]

Book close-ups in Apologetic Lumberjack’s spirit memories. Bloke was just chilling when a tree almost landed on them.

[keen shore]

I like how the “book” floats ominously next to them the entire time

[frigid tinsel]

devs: players won't care about the spirit's book, just gonna put the book adjacent to them so they know they read, don't gotta fuss so much over positioning.
lorechat rn:

[tulip aspen]

in fact, if we SEE the abyss guide or someone use those diving masks sometime soon, that almost confirms ancestors dont breathe air, because the mask only helps light not be quenched by water (when used by skykids) so if ancestors also use it it will be granted the same effect... about light!

[frigid tinsel]

anyways the book reminds me of hardback book with pages inside the cover

[keen shore]

Ancestor architect attempts to draw a building idea and starts crying because they don’t know what squares are

[tulip aspen]

I'm still such a minority in the idea that only light and dark beings exist in this universe with no biological possibilities, so i still cant write as if the idea is even possible because no one believes me

ill just have to work hard on this and maybe some day i can confidently write that doc

[rustic heron]

Genius Ancestor Architect: Why don't we rotate the diamond?
Other Ancestor Architects: Crucify him

[keen shore]

This is the REAL reason why sky x Minecraft collab can never exist. Ancestors don’t know what squares are

[rustic heron]

Steve: Exists
Ancestor: Have an existential crisis

[frigid tinsel]

write for yourself. I'm well aware that very few will read my skid anatomy doc and some might find it weird that I'm writing it in the first place but I'm writing it cos I believe it needs to be written. getting my thoughts down, can refer to it.

[keen shore]

Here’s some evidence u can use jam

• concerning lack of ancestor skeleton???
• light shaped spirit after we burn away darkness outside, looks similar to ours

[tulip aspen]

i dont write for myself, i write for all of us

i write for the idea that someday, because we all worked together to come up with ideas and share them with each other, we'll uncover so much more about the kingdom's past

that hasnt changed since november lol, so I'll write about stuff we're all onboard with

[rustic heron]

I brought this up before, but maybe Ancestors have exoskeletons. Something to think about.

[harsh pecan]

Lol-

[compact shale]

We really don't know, but we can choose not to care about it because of that fantasy trope of magic light pulsating and that sort of crap.

[lofty void]

ASDFGHJJSLSJKAJSJL NOOOOO

[frigid tinsel]

hmm

[tulip aspen]

isnt that what i had to tell salem in a desperate attempt to help then not freak out about it

[rustic heron]

In general, when writing anything you want to write as if what you're presenting is truth. The audience will disagree with you when they find contrarian opinions and facts; the won't need your permission to do so.

This is especially true of research/persuasive literature.

[frigid tinsel]

i did write this already

[tulip aspen]

we're not writing persuasive literature, but yes i have always noticed that you have written like that a lot for sure lol, so cool to know where that comes from

[rustic heron]

In general, it's the notion that the author is not in a position to give their audience permission to disagree with them.

[tulip aspen]

i reject that notion

mortem notion...or

[rustic heron]

You mean I can order your not to disagree with my words?

[tulip aspen]

in order to keep my face in this chat i and every other person here is obligated to not directly disagree with yours or anybody else's words unless you explicitly ask them if you can express disagreement

so yeah, it's kinda a thing

it certainly makes it hard to get opinions for my own theories and content, ill say that for sure

i would absolutely prefer that alasdair and vela and anyone else tell me how stupid i am and how itd never work or make sense and i am gatekeeping an irrelevant concept: because then I'd at least have actual opinions and not gated guarded passive aggressive tonalities

[rustic heron]

What the hell. That's ridiculously warped.

[frigid tinsel]

i just don't wanna be the "i'm right you're wrong and if you disagree you should cry about it" kind of jerk, especially since the game is very interpretable.
you can tell i'm losing brainpower cos words are just not.

[rustic heron]

Well, no, of course not. But you are completely free to disagree with anything you want. Hell, Flat Earthers do it all the time. If they can, why can't I (in a respectful way)?

[frigid tinsel]

i can say "there is evidence to suggest otherwise" or "my interpretation of this is–" but I can't diss people. it's not constructive. it's not nice.

[rustic heron]

Well yeah, don't be mean. But you can just say "I disagree because ...".

[tulip aspen]

respect is warped in itself as a concept though, my friend

the 'line' you (foot appendage) to be 'respectful' is everchanging and controversial, so much so that to anyone and everyone you have a high chance of looking passive aggressive

i prefer having fake and utter 'respect' like in this sheltered community, or no respect at all in... er, much more aggressive internet communities ehe

because people pretending to walk the line are much more facading than the people who are completely 'nice' like in here imo, and the worst part is they dont even realize that

i hate when people ask for respect honestly.

[rustic heron]

So, I'm certainly not one dispense elderly wisdom, but this is one of the most important things I've learned: you live for yourself. No one is guaranteed to voice your opinions, and no one is guaranteed to defend what you believe in.

You gotta be the first one to make yourself known. Others may or may not be there alongside you, but you definitely have to be the one. The respect of others can come and go, but if you don't respect yourself enough to make your voice heard, why would anyone else do it?

Alsadair put it really well: you write for yourself.

[tulip aspen]

i dont write for myself, i write for all of us.
i write for the idea that someday, because we all worked together to come up with ideas and share them with each other, we'll uncover so much more about the kingdom's past.
that hasnt changed since november lol, so I'll write about stuff we're all onboard with
nobody told me to want this, and nobody really connects with this

i dont do this because i want some form of clout, or to affirm my own bias somehow over everyone else, or to write whatever i want because what i want and enjoy is dust in the wind in the bigger picture, and i care about the bigger picture

i enjoy writing and interacting with the lote community and building up this feeling of intelligent people working together to solve mysteries, because i enjoy it.
its a hobby and its a passion and i wouldnt have it any other way

i live for myself, and what myself wants is to keep this chat talking to each other and interacting into the future

ive gotten this far off being genuine and true to that, and i have my niche of friends (and 'friends') in here who accept me, and that's all I'll ever need

[frigid tinsel]

i'm going to bed, please don't kill each other

[compact shale]

okay we'll kill each other in cozy instead /j /lh

[frigid tinsel]

Could kill each other in gen, that’s where it’s expected

[tulip aspen]

i think im the least likely to throw hands out of most of the folks here, but i certainly dont flee either

[rustic heron]

I'll throw hands with everyone and anyone, including myself.

[tulip aspen]

rebreather argument checks out for bothclayshell theory

AbsorbToEat theory still unsteady, salem argued the the fish in the memory could be biological/non-light and it's impossible to tell either or, i should relive angler to make a more steady conclusion

(skykids are also weak wl and rebirth makes them immortal( argument checks out for bothclayshell theory

(why ancestors need shelter) checks out for clayshell theory as well

.
at least for that round of arguments, angler seems to be my only loose end, time to go fishing ig

[rustic heron]

I don't think people think enough about candles when they talk about Skykids. Think about Skykids like living candles, and a lot of things begin to make sense.

[night pecan]

hey lore chat

are the blue crystals edible /hj

[rustic heron]

Eerything is edible if you're brave enough.

[raven sandal]

i always described the skykids as being "made of light" because water hurts us,,, sometimes, (looking at abyss rn) and things that we fear/burn/have to get rid of or run from are called Darkness or Dark Dragons... and the Krill/Dark Dragons don't just prey on skykids, shown in Wasteland, but anything that's "made of light" (like the poor manta as an example)

[night pecan]

for real tho do skids eat?
do they need to?
what do they eat

[raven sandal]

photosynthesis
like a plant 🌱✧◝(⁰▿⁰)◜✧

[lofty void]

wax probably

[rapid arrow]

They eat the clouds

[night pecan]

why does this exist then

[raven sandal]

they eat whatever the grandma spirit that shows up during days of feast gives us

[rapid arrow]

Clouds are like water??? I am well aware water exists

[night pecan]

slurp

soop

[rain pond]

we need more omega krill and krill lore

HOW DO THEY FORM

[rapid arrow]

Anyways-

So what do y’all think life was like before the storm?

[raven sandal]

good soup
🥣

[rain pond]

probably ok

[rustic heron]

Valley was the Las Vegas of Sky. Ancestors gambled and engaged in all sorts of depravity there. That's why Eden happened.

[tulip aspen]

skykids are humanoid beings made out of pure light, with a shell of theoretically clay surrounding and protecting their light

with that, they probably dont eat

[rain pond]

WHAT IS KRILL

[night pecan]

they can certainly try

[rustic heron]

Crab roast pit begs to differ. If the Ancestors have been dead for centuries, then the only ones who could have started that pit would be the Sky kids.

Meaning they eat crabs.

[rapid arrow]

Big fish

[tulip aspen]

where there's a will.......

[rapid arrow]

There’s a way!

[tulip aspen]

i doubt skykids would make that tbh, also the crab fire area is a part of "dont go"s memory, he's trying to catch the crabs, and i dont think he's just trying to make friends with them

[rustic heron]

The fire pit exists outside the memory. And what makes you think Sky kids wouldn't make fire pits and roast crabs? They probably learned it from his memory, got hungry, and copied it like kids would.

[tulip aspen]

a giant light creature that was corrupted by darkstone pollution, the corruption seems to have decayed it's body until it's nothing but bones, yet it still roams, possibly desperate to reclaim the light it lost......

[compact shale]

Unnecessary angst AU: due to starvation, Don't Go hallucinates that the crabs are their children running away, which isn't something they doesn't want

HAHAHSHHDBFBFBD OFC NOT

Also maybe that crab pit was just really well preserved

[rain pond]

i've seen some beta content and OH BOY IS IT BETA CONENT

[rustic heron]

Thanks Moggy, very cool.

[rain pond]

the floor here is made out of floor

but srsly i wanna talk about it but it's not in the live game so asdlfj

[tulip aspen]

the fire pit exists for real, but dont go would have needed somewhere to cook the crabs idk lol

[compact shale]

Moggy if the beta content isn't about the last abyss quest then tell me in dms

[tulip aspen]

you should head to beta discussion!
that's the best place to talk about it, beta topics cant be brought up in here

[rain pond]

yh that's why i said the beta content was beta content

[rustic heron]

You're right. Several centuries ago. Fire pits don't last several centuries.

[compact shale]

Moggy dm me if it's not about the last abyss quest

Hm. Your silence is unsettling.

[rustic heron]

The implication is that Sky kids eat, they eat crabs, and they must have bodies that need food.

[rapid arrow]

The innards of a skykid-

[nocturne mulch]

sky kids dont eat the crabs they just like to roast them as vengeance

[thin dirge]

They eat light. Light is nutritious, full of Vitamin D 😎

[harsh pecan]

I wonder if the Sky kingdom had its own version of a casino

[tulip aspen]

crabs are just shells with light inside them

[nocturne mulch]

going to golden wasteland is a gamble on its own

[thin dirge]

Considering Valley.... They most likely did, just saying

[nocturne mulch]

maybe they placed bets on the races? like how people do with horse races

[thin dirge]

Ooh, they def did...

[compact shale]

Mantas are Sky's horses

We see a Valley spirit ride one

[rustic heron]

Crabs are fermented power diamonds. And they get roasted and eaten.

[nocturne mulch]

yeah there's those manta-drawn boats in the wind paths too

[tulip aspen]

the reason i speak so confidently is because their eyes glow with light, they have light inside their shells

we know they have light, but we have no evidence they are.... fermented power diamonds

[compact shale]

*gouges crab eyes out and eats them

[nocturne mulch]

eat crab hhg lov that crunch

eden pelts me with rocks to stop me from crunching on the statues

[rustic heron]

There's correlation between crabs and the placement of the golden containers which held power diamonds. Crabs are always around where these golden containers are.

[tulip aspen]

indeed?

[nocturne mulch]

aren't they called dark stones?

[tulip aspen]

darkstone is what they are when first mined

when brought to temples and factories they are refined into power diamonds

we are unsure just how different each are, but that there is at least some sort of difference

[nocturne mulch]

oh true

[tulip aspen]

bru

[lofty void]

I just came back from listening to Children Of The City on loop, what the frick happened here

bruh it’s 2:30 am where i live, i have no idea what the heck is going on i’ve just been vibing for the past few hours.

[compact shale]

It's not what you think

[lofty void]

WHAT IS IT THEN

what the everloving heck— 😭

[compact shale]

May i dm you something

[lofty void]

sure

[stable veldt]

with crabs existing around gold containers... is there a possible chance that crabs may be ancestor's accidental artificial creature that they made? Light gives life, some darkstone conglomerate gained sentience by light and then they became funni crabs

[tulip aspen]

some form of text on the platform that activates the door to the dark creature chamber

all different text on each side

we definitely need to get skyblr eggheads to translate this somehow

[frozen hill]

the bells in Prairie also have those text on them

[hushed steeple]

they all look like a mix of Hittite and Ancient Cypriot, but that's just at first glance

[tidal valve]

V late, but thank u!

[tidal valve]

My idea, on the bell print, is maybe;

Bells are used to summon/ guide/ light creatures

this print is used on every bell throughout sky

Perhaps, it is written music notes? Like the melody that is needed to attract a certain light creature

But, this is a pedestal so, may it different;

This print is also found on other things, such as the cubes in vault archives, as well as the golden structures within valley

Perhaps, when the sky society started to reject the harmony they had with light creatures, their connection was lost but the scripture somehow was carried on, its knowledge and meaning forgotten

Or perhaps it’s kept as light creatures were used as experimental technology, so, the creature symbols stayed on the pedestals to signify what light creatures were used for the technology?

This is very much a entirely loose theory I just thought of,

Realistically it’s just reusing assets, but it’s fun to make an idea from nothing sometimes

[harsh pecan]

Did something here get deleted or…

[delicate anvil]

wth

[crimson grove]

We don't allow topics that aren't appropriate for an all-ages server to be discussed, so a previous rule-breaking discussion has been cleaned

[harsh pecan]

So its not just me?

[compact shale]

Ah. I see. :3

[sharp lichen]

Hello, EverTone!

[gilded inlet]

What's the lore behind the shadow version of you or why you lose all features when you lose your light?

[sharp lichen]

I think it's simple: you constantly absorb light for energy, so when you lose all of it, a process similar to withering takes place.

[gilded inlet]

What about when you die in Eden, you control a shadow for a portion before hugging a light before becoming yourself again. I guess it's you embracing your lost light which was lost to the darkness when you fell in Eden?

[sharp lichen]

We're actually not sure... some believe it's a reflection of ourselves, while others believe it's the King/Prince, which is a whole nother can of worms

[compact shale]

Some believe it's a wl and in-universe we got rescued the way we rescue statues

[silk hinge]

king

[formal skiff]

I will do my heckin best-
I’ve translated an in game language before, but I had a few letters given to me in that one… this’ll be significantly harder

[rigid mural]

Wastelands elder got a sun shield in both their cutscene and on their shrine in the temple now.

[tulip aspen]

i wonder, is it the exact same text?

yep, the fish in the angler memory are knife fish, which are indeed light creatures @keen shore

the fact that i can confirm this is extremely important, because from there, we can assume light creatures don't actually have meat, which means..... the Absorb to Eat theory is ago.....

[frozen hill]

I’m not sure since I don’t really have screenshots of the bells and can’t quite remember them as well
and it’s pretty late right now to log on sky soooo...

[tulip aspen]

oh yes I'm not asking you to provide evidence, just pondering what we'll collectively need to check out lolol

[hushed steeple]

Hi Lore chat, may I discuss something I've been thinking about Prophecy?

[tulip aspen]

so like grandmas bao, like crabs when popped open, like whatever light creature the hunter in forest was hunting.... the knife fish pop when killed, and the ancestor can then absorb it's life/Light essence

Salem made an important point before, that according to the card, ancestors need to 'eat' to survive/not-die

this is a very scary thing to have to note, because it implies ancestors are basically like Light vampires

this works very well with my conclusions about ancestors having very little light: they must have such a little amount of Light that they can't survive without intaking external sources of it

so there we have it
ancestors could very well still be clayshell like skykids, because yes they need to eat, but what they are eating is Light

[rigid mural]

You can power a plane with used cooking oil.

[hushed steeple]

So what if the correspondence between the realms and the trials is that the Elders set those trials? Prairie elder set the Earth trial, Forest Elder set the water trial, stuff like that?
Or or or - what if the first people to conquer those trials became the Elders of the realms?
Conquer one trial = become an Elder
Conquer all the trials = become supreme leader? (Prince or King or whomever)

[tulip aspen]

how effervescently delightful

[frozen hill]

I did, however, managed to find an old image of the forest bell with also what seems to be some texts

[sharp lichen]

I'm not too sure about the first option, as I believe that the Prophets have existed before the Elders

[formal skiff]

I like this idea but something seems off- there aren’t the same amount of trials as there are elders… and I can’t think of a good way to explain that

[hushed steeple]

So how would the Elders become the Elders?
If you had someone like the Prophecy gang, older in age, further in seniority...in my mind it's a bit of a conundrum that when you have someone like the Prophecy gang, why have anyone else be the Elders?
Also, BirdKid (Maximum Ride reference?) I thought of that too, and I still have to figure it out

[sharp lichen]

I always thought that they were just people with great powers/abilities, so they rose up

[hushed steeple]

How would they realise they had those abilitites? Who decided that that's what makes an Elder?
(Please don't think I'm trying to shoot you down, I'm trying to think through this.)

Hi.

We assume elders are like demi gods. So they would not have had to become elders.

I think they where created as a set to watch over the rebirth cycle and maybe on some other places there are other sets

There's also an interesting correspondence happening:
Someone mentioned a while ago that Prairie has spaces where if you just drift, your cape can get recharged, and it got me thinking
Prairie corresponds to Green Light. "It was bestowed as a gift from the heavens," was it?
Earth --> Air
Forest is associated with Orange Light, "bringing warmth in the cold." Water --> Fire
Valley for Air trial, but Blue Light, "the purity of mountain water." Air --> Water
Red light in GW - "Where darkness grows" despite the tag for the Fire trial - Only the brave can attain the Light. Light --> Darkness

[formal skiff]

Oh haha it’s not a Maximum Ride reference, Bird is just what I go by on discord :))

[tulip aspen]

honestly it goes to say that or the elders came, it just probably wasn't as technologically advanced

we know that Elders came after ancestors in general because Elders were sent to help ancestors ascend, so the Light/Megabird would only have sent the elders after the kingdom had been having problems ascending for quite some time

[hushed steeple]

Wait everyone here a regular.

Is it just debating detail meanings? :/

[tulip aspen]

I'm pretty sure not everyone in here knows all of our findings kami, which is perfectly fine

[hushed steeple]

If you set up a fish tank. You should prolly get a tank filter first.

||if you set up a rebirth cycle, you should prolly have its overseers first||

[hushed steeple]

This was the original thought I wanted to run by here, and then I got caught up in Lore theorizing

[tulip aspen]

maybe?
that's only if you follow the idea that ancestors constantly were dying and being reborn though.....

that definitely isn't confirmed

[hushed steeple]

O wait your right I do say that being convinced of ancestors rebirthing before skykids.

[tulip aspen]

yeah exactly, which is still very possible I'll give you that, but because I haven't had heard much evidence for it yet I haven't given that theory much thought which honestly I admittedly should

[delicate anvil]

Me and a friend actually came to a similar conclusion months ago while looking at the cave walls at 3 AM

[hushed steeple]

Its mostly based on seeing ancestors in orbit, which could just be their one and only trip, but the first thing I thought when seeing it is “oh they are here too!”

And “ancestors Shepard light” which I lost the source of, then found, then forgot again, but I have my suspicion that its prolly in gnosom presentation.

And then just the Megabird rebirth chart, which you could argue is only meaning light creatures and sky kids, but it says souls in general, and paired with the other two, im inclined to think its everything.

O yeah and temples are made for tossing them into space.

[tulip aspen]

honestly this thought only comes from the fact that ancestors built the temples in order to try to ascend

does that mean the elders wouldn't have helped them if they didn't build temples for them?

maybe the elders always existed in orbit, but can only appear in the Kingdom with the existence of temples, but I personally prefer to believe they only existed after the ancestors made the temples to worship the light

[tulip aspen]

oh no, in the concept arts they definitely used to have ancestors and light creatures die and be rebirthed together in the cycle of light

I already debunked that still being a thing a while ago though, because it's just not a proper visual narrative we see existing with light creatures or ancestors anymore

[hushed steeple]

Ah. I believe the elders where first. But thats due to believing spirits rebirth too. Im iffy on if elders had physical bodies on the land at any point. But I like to think they did since we saw they once considered elder death scenes in the game with blue eden, and it would be very odd for prophecy mural to have them celebrating with their people metaphorically

What if a realm "Elder" is not a personification but more like a spirit itself? With more power, obviously, but...
If anyone would like to think about it this way: there is a concept of "sagun" and "nirgun" in Hindi poetry. It refers to gods, but I think we could apply it to Elders as well
"Sagun" is when you imagine God to have a corporeal form, and "nirgun" otherwise - not really sure how to explain it better

[tulip aspen]

they're still in game proof that they existed material, because tsadi fought alongside their soldiers in the war (s), and lamed worked directly alongside their scholars in the vault, and both of those are shown in prophecy

[hushed steeple]

Yeah. Theres a lot thats contradictory about the old timeline. But honestly they didn’t replace it with anything better. And I don’t think the idea of spirits rebirthing contradicts with current game. The light creatures in concept timeline where angry blobs :/ Ansestors and creatures seem to get along better current game aside from GW

[tulip aspen]

very true, maybe we should start working too weigh out both possibilities of rebirth and non rebirth for ancestors and light creatures

[hushed steeple]

Meh sounds too tedious

[tulip aspen]

when i say we i mean mostly me lolol, and whoever inputs

[hushed steeple]

Go for it jelly jam!

[distant turtle]

Then why do we help the ancestors ascend? If that’s something foreign, sky kids aren’t making a difference.

[frigid tinsel]

Thought: what if the rebirth cycle isn’t really rebirthing lives but rebirthing light? It’s really just a cycle for light, doesn’t matter that much when the being of light dies as long as their light, in some form, gets to Eden to ascend? And what’s really being reborn is just another manifestation of light rather than the being themself?

So ancestors eating light creatures (however the means of such) or light creatures eating each other (if they do) isn’t a violation of that cycle because they now carry that light within themselves that’d one day go Eden with them. But darkstone tech is a violation of that cycle because it uses light to power objects, taking the light out of the cycle.

It would explain why ancestors are not being reborn. The light that composes spirits is being reborn into other entities, not ancestors.

[rigid mural]

[distant turtle]

I agree great points, except with the minor question of what value does light have without life

[frigid tinsel]

Perhaps the life stays with Megabird after ascending (something something hivemind god), but their light is used to make more life

[keen shore]

OH THIS IS SUPER NEAT TY!!

I do want 100% confirmation on light creatures not having meat (I currently agree that they don’t, but I want to be able to confidently prove it to myself) because of what you mentioned a day or so ago about the manta poofing out of existence not necessarily meaning that that’s how it always happens given age restrictions, which is fair.

Given the ancestors working like light vampires theory, I wonder if that’s why they want the Darkstone?? Not to power their boat, but to use it as convenient Food Batteries??

• I was thinking over more evidence for ancestors possibly being non biological last night while trying to sleep and realized there’s no 100% irrefutable evidence of them drinking water. The alchemist purifying water in forgotten ark could just be to water their farm with & the pipes running through eden and GW could just be to carry waste away. This is supported by no similar pipes carrying water away from Valley’s peak and no visible system bringing water into vault

[frigid tinsel]

Maybe that’s why the manta didn’t leave bones behind after getting nommed by the krill. Getting eaten isn’t considered an “unnatural” death because it’s just a part of the light cycle. Tho the difference being that it’s a dark creature, that shouldn’t exist, eating them but idk if light creatures’ bodies would acknowledge the difference. They’re just getting eaten. “Oh well that sucks at least my predator is gonna bring my light to Eden someday... right?”

Granted we only see, in Angler’s memories, them catching the fish to eat, not like them tossing bones after cleaning off all the light flesh or whatever. Still a toss up whether getting eaten is an “unnatural” death or not, or getting eaten by other light beings, or getting eaten by corrupted dark creatures.

W hat is my brain doing

[distant turtle]

Where there are bones there was meat

[frigid tinsel]

I have a really bad idea for a meme

[keen shore]

I mean, if we acknowledge light creatures need sustenance in the form of other light, it would be odd and kind of cruel to make getting eaten by other light creatures unnatural

[distant turtle]

Sky sushi but it’s just seaweed wrapped LEDs

[keen shore]

Side note, I used the fact that all the weapons in GW are blunt force and made for whacking instead of stabbing to say that they were made for bringing down krill, but a possible alternate explanation is that ancestors just had really hard skin (like us) so stabbing wouldn’t damage them! Would also explain why they didn’t put any effort into creating armor

[frigid tinsel]

tbf that depends on if being carnivorous is truly part of the light cycle. Is it only light creatures eating other light creatures? Ancestors do need to eat, but are they supposed to eat light creatures? What is the light to flesh ratio of ancestors?

[rigid mural]

i recall fish (thanks salem !) theorising only bigger creatures leave bones behind; butterflies and small mantas would be pure light because they werent reborn many times (sky kid equivalent of less wl, they give less power diamonds upon being processed), while bigger creatures absorbed enough light to gain some materiality and leave bones behind (sky kid equivalent of more wl, they give more power diamonds upon being processed) after looking at the abyss murals

[frigid tinsel]

Theoretically, an ancestor could have a diet of pure butterflies if all they need to eat is light.
That’s a grim thought

Do ancestors need to eat light to sustain themselves or, if they’re not pure light, need to eat something else to sustain their biology?

[keen shore]

As for light to flesh ratio of ancestors, if we assume they also count as light creatures (I’m currently thinking of all the evidence for/against this) the lack of bones in GW suggests that, at the very least, they didn’t have skeletons. It’s hard to go much deeper than this, unfortunately, because 1) age rating probably wouldn’t allow for rotting ancestor corpse and 2) all the soft bits would have decomposed by now anyway

[rigid mural]

idk i feel like an ancestor "fainting" on screen is a bit worse than putting a skeleton somewhere 😂

[keen shore]

Skeletons are fine. Rotting flesh is super gross looking, especially if it’s human-ish, and that would probably not make the cut

[rigid mural]

Ehhh. I feel like enough time has conveniently passed for us to not have a chance to see... this

[half shadow]

sorry Salem I have to comment on “As for light to flesh ratio of ancestors,” because it might be my favorite thing anybody’s ever said in this channel

[frigid tinsel]

This is the last one, I’ll stop

[formal skiff]

no don't stop

[tall chasm]

Anyone here who is agreeing with me to make game to let reach skykids get Eden's eye without dying lol

[formal skiff]

hm i actually like that dying is the only option
it makes it more emotional and impactful imo
also it makes my anxiety chill out a bit more bc i have zero control over whether i die, just over how long it takes

[sharp lichen]

I think it’s far more impactful then just flying up to ||orbit||

[lofty void]

NO PLS COME BACK

[tall chasm]

I mean ending isn't having happy, like skykids went through so many difficulties and got the higher power to go against dark, but at the end they will just die like other skykids ended up getting stoned before getting Eden's eye, is like not worth of what they did it until then

[formal skiff]

YES PLEASE

[sharp lichen]

That’s the tragedy of it all- to know that nothing will change, that the Storm will continue, that Skykids will still die

[formal skiff]

yeah and i love the tragedy

[tall chasm]

Well after dieing, then coming back life didn't got the flying too, it was the power of Eden's eye, through that we went up, the butterflies, birds, mantas, jellyfishes, whale were with us too, to give us more energy

[tall chasm]

I would love more if we were to die after getting Eden's eye tho

[formal skiff]

we kinda do

[frigid tinsel]

i believe the futility we face in Eden is one of skykids' own making. whatever skykids were originally supposed to do in Eden is up to debate, yet they aren't strong enough to make it to the center without dying. skykids could just buff themselves up with light and charge on past their fellow peers' corpses get to the center, but they have such a love for each other that they can't help but give up their own light to save their petrified friends, weakening themselves so they they will ultimately succumb to the darkness in the point of no return. this leaves more bodies for other skykids to save, weakening themselves in turn, dying, and sustaining the cycle.

[formal skiff]

yeah

[frigid tinsel]

Back by popular demand.
(Photo credit: Jam)

[formal skiff]

yes

ancestors eat light, skids eat memes

[keen shore]

Random theory: the reason why only light sea creatures exist is because the entire population of land dwelling light creatures got wiped out by the extreme darkness of the storm, and the sea creatures just filled the niche they left behind

[grim python]

I’m pretty sure the game mostly just has sea creatures because they’re easier to animate, but this is an interesting way it could fit lore-wise

[rigid mural]

about ancestors eating light: why "fountain" ?

[foggy lotus]

maybe because we can recharge our light from them??

[frigid tinsel]

maybe "fountain" refers to the design of that platform, like a fancy water fountain but for light, funneling the embers of fire as a purely decorative feature.
those fountains also give off lift, so it could've been used for ancestors to get to higher platforms in the Vault.

although it could've been like a water fountain/drinking fountain/"bubbler" where ancestor Vault scholars could get a quick refreshing sip of light.

[half shadow]

you just stick a straw in there and go to town

[rigid mural]

i'd dunk my head in there for the freshest light sippy

[foggy lotus]

how come skykids can't recharge from sunlight

[keen shore]

Plant

[frigid tinsel]

skykids don't have chlorophyll

[foggy lotus]

aight thx

[keen shore]

Probable explanation is that the sunlight isn’t concentrated / focused enough to recharge us

[foggy lotus]

so can we recharge skykids if we fry them with a magnifying glass

[keen shore]

You can try at the probable risk of also burning down everything in the vicinity

[frigid tinsel]

that could work cos skykids can recharge from fire

[keen shore]

THE CURLY STRAW ITS BEAHRIFUL

[frigid tinsel]

snickering like the dehydrated fool i am

[tulip aspen]

keep in mind we've already established that Bones from light creatures only mean some sort of metaphoric symbolism

it's basically those kinds of mythological Forest Spirit deaths where if you kill a forest Spirit it will turn into a giant tree or something I don't know

my point is you and I already have a greed that they probably don't naturally die and when they are violently killed by physical Force then they drop skeletons, and if they have their life energy sucked out of them, they would probably not drop skeletons

[tulip aspen]

I don't think light creatures in general would need sustenance, and that ancestors, as I've already biasely affirmed before, are definitely anomalies in their behaviors

[tulip aspen]

perhaps not, because we see that dark stone and power diamonds dilute light way too much, maybe a contaminates it too much for it to be healthy for them

WAIT
WHAT IF THAT'S WHY THEY DIED BECAUSE THEY TRIED TO CONSUME ENERGY FROM DARKSTONE

IT'S JUST AN IDEA BUT IF THAT HAPPENED THAT WOULD BE SO COOL

[rigid mural]

let me throw some angst at the chat:
I like the theory that the questgiver of each season is kind of like the first person buried in a cemetery becoming its guardian (hence why we buried animals there first, so no human soul is stuck here).
But... keep in mind it requires them being the first to pass away.

Now I will let you imagine the consequences their passing would have had on their spirit friends...

[tulip aspen]

in general that's why they needed light creatures, so that they can eat pure light in order to stay healthy and full of light

[hushed steeple]

can someone redirect me to the full lore so far with megabird and the Prince and yk

[rigid mural]

ok but now it kinda makes sense why the first 4 seasons had scattered spirits, and how the assembly squad may have lost the cohesion that was their greatest strenght against the hostile environment

[tulip aspen]

I was about to say exactly that's a great point, but honestly that doesn't disprove the cycle of Life Theory at all, because maybe the corruption somehow stopped the ancestors from ascending and they were locked in that state, and we're just helping them get back to doing the normal cycle

(I still don't believe or want to believe in the cycle of life theory, just considering all sides of it)

[tulip aspen]

the light from the ancestors definitely could get reincarnated into other creatures, that's absolutely true and I always have thought it was

anything that enters the light becomes ambiguous and a part of that mass so it could come in one way and leave as another way

[frigid tinsel]

Just like eating an irl battery is toxic

[keen shore]

Mantas seem to not care too much about finding food, so if they DO need light, they would probably just get it from the sun. Would explain why they’re all in sunny areas and only one of them is in wasteland, because if they wanted to try and ascend to Eden in its current state they’d risk starvation

[half shadow]

And all of the ocean mantas stay in the warmer, sunnier shallows

[tulip aspen]

yeah, that was a really good contradiction I had towards my "symbolic skeleton" theory

we only see large creature bones everywhere, and no small bones of ancestors or smaller light creatures, with the only exception being one Manta corpse in vault, which is a concept that's very up for debate because, well, vault is an illusion so-

i really do think large creatures may the only one with hardened Internal structures, possibly the light can't support a size that big so it hardens internally to create support within itself

[half shadow]

yeah, I feel like it’s a pretty solid theory, it just makes sense given what we see all around and what we don’t see (smaller skeletons)

[keen shore]

Short People Don’t Have Skeleton Priveleges

[half shadow]

I think of it sorta like a rapid evolutionary process. Butterflies, tiny orange fish, and tiny simple “origami” birds may as well be motes of pure Light in the shape of animals are sort of like single-cell organisms. From there, they just keep evolving and growing more complicated

[tulip aspen]

wow we're coining a lot of theories today guys

ancestorclayshell / bothclayshell theory

absorb to eat theory

large creature bones theory

(honorable mentions being creatures need sustenance)

[hushed steeple]

please?

[rigid mural]

it's not that i didn't see you, more like what you're asking is something we don't have lol

[tulip aspen]

everyone has very different ideas of the timeline, usually built off personal bias

we don't know the true answer

[hushed steeple]

ohh

[compact shale]

Talking about all the edible stuff huh

Aight gtg for now ahagagagag

[rigid mural]

You want the lore docs perhaps ? It's outdated hence why I don't really like linking it anymore, but here.

Lore Moff Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/18B1-SKG3toG0oH0VhOWC5o-cG9u0STAN92QvmbhTDto/edit?usp=sharing

The Canon Lore Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10ZWJRGiJSrIXgDvJ4pST61moZbVB_hBExUjOaF-pmOE/edit?usp=sharing

[frigid tinsel]

No time for food discourse

[hushed steeple]

thank you!!

[rigid mural]

Unfortunately, we're given chewing gum and a few yarn strings to spin lore from, so we heavily rely on concept art.

[tulip aspen]

here's the best summary i have but many people here disagree with it

[rigid mural]

what

[tulip aspen]

summary
"A mass of Light sits in space, a collective conscious

Ancestors (spirits) came from the Light, either sent or fell by accident, as pure Light energy, then gaining shells upon landing.

These ancestors began building a kingdom, but due to the religious subtexts of worship and meditation, it's theorized that they were supposed to reconnect mentally to that Light in space, in order to ascend back up to it. (that theory may be incorrect and they might've had no real way to return)

Powerful deities; Elders, were sent by the Light to help them ascend, tasked to help the ancestors grow both spiritually and keep their kingdom thriving, but even then the ancestors still couldnt ascend..

The prophets had a vision and saw a being defeating a group of trials, and being given great power to lead them all to salvation.
Ancestors tried the trials but failed, until a special child ancestor that fell from the sky a long time later, defeated them and was crowned prince/king.
The prince MAY have singlehandedly discovered/developed darkstone and crystal technology, but that might've been before the prince.

There seemed to be resentment in the kingdom with one side preferring spiritual traditions, and the other preferring technology.
Civil war breaks out.

The giant diamond in eden was created/harvested for an unknown purpose, but recently i've been led to believe it was intended to send all ancestors straight back up into space without a complicated ascension process.
(Made before or during the war???)

The crystals created some sort of corruption pollution, and the giant diamond ruptured.
We dont know much about the apocalypse that followed, and there's even theories that there were multiple apocalypses all at once.
After the dust settled, likely decades later, all of the ancestors were dead.

A loooong time after that, the mass of Light sent angels to retrieve the souls of the ancestors, and that's us! Our job isnt done until every spirit hidden in new areas is found."

[half shadow]

was this something you wrote jam?

[sharp lichen]

Here’s my subjective take on the history of Sky:

The Sky world was created by Megabird, a mystical deity of light. The first four ancestor spirits to arrive in this world were the Prophets, who settled in the Prophecy Cave and predicted the future of Sky, including a mysterious person who would complete all 4 Trials.

Other Ancestor Spirits arrive, and a kingdom is formed, led by 6 powerful Elders.

However, a young Eden Elder, being mentored by the other Elders, gets inspired by darkness. Called the King, they get inspired by the darkstone found in the Trials and begin making his own darkstone. Soon, hundreds of light creatures are being killed, as it is required to make darkstone.

He uses the darkstone to create his magnum opus: the gigantic Eden Diamond, made by him to harness all the light in Eden and gain infinite power. However, something goes disastrously wrong, and the Eden Diamond destroys all the spirits and prevents them from ascending. The Elders, working with Megabird, create a counter: Skykids, extremely powerful beings of light that can help Spirits ascend.

The main story follows us helping the remaining spirits, making them ascend, and rebuilding the crumbled Sky kingdom.

[hushed steeple]

that's pretty cool it's hard to understand because my first language isn't English but I appreciate it

[half shadow]

it’s pretty good is all I was gonna say!

[tulip aspen]

yep here we go lol there's all the other versions coming in

[hushed steeple]

THANKS

[hushed steeple]

yours is really good too, we don't know if it's accurate but it's good

[half shadow]

here’s another really nice, succinct timeline Vela made!

dang cat just sat on my chest ack

[sharp lichen]

Both of our essays are accurate. It’s difficult to evaluate Sky lore and compress it into a single essay. No only do we have to decipher what happens in the games, but we also have to make it narratively interesting.

[rigid mural]

uuuuuuhhhh this has a lot of my headcanons in there, take the details with a HUGE grain of salt

[hushed steeple]

I meant accurate as in "correct", sky lore is very interesting and can go very deep

[rigid mural]

I WISH WE HAD THE CORRECT LORE LMAO

[half shadow]

I think it’s really good! it sums up the idea of the different “eras” like Zhao’s timeline

[sharp lichen]

Do we expect us to acquire a lore Bible and read it to you?

[rigid mural]

all we got are scraps and the occasional dev making an appearance here

[foggy lotus]

devs appear here!?

[tulip aspen]

mine is based off and elaborate entanglement of theories that other people in this chat agree with

it does biasly use the idea of the king being really important to the story, and also that ancestors had a very basic Kingdom with a basic timeline, which is something not everyone agrees with so therefore it's technically on my bias I guess

besides that all of it is based on those theories and is not just something I'm writing just because I want to so there's a lot of weight put into every single word

[hushed steeple]

not at all I wasn't looking for the most accurate lore

plus the accurate lore probably will take longer to discover since theres more seasons to come

[sharp lichen]

I was joking, don’t worry!

[frigid tinsel]

We know there’s a lore bible the devs reference, unfortunately it prob costs 4000 hearts

[hushed steeple]

oh sorry

[tulip aspen]

@sharp lichen

[sharp lichen]

I want to write my own lore bible

[rigid mural]

sometimes. it's unusual but ash is the one that comes to say hi the most often.

i wouldn't rely on asking questions to devs if i were you tho, they get overhelmed with their cheer amount xD

[frigid tinsel]

NDAs are a trickery to untie too

They have given some interesting info. Ash said that the animal masks refer to certain jobs or roles ancestors had. Unfortunately that discussion always leads to “Forest Elder is a furry.”

[rigid mural]

Yui is the one in charge of the current season (Abyss), Ash worked on the Season of Flight, so you're more likely to get an answer from them about this latter season.

[half shadow]

All in all, there’s a few universally agreed upon pieces of lore that can be mostly backed up by ingame evidence:

• Ancestors used to worship Elders more in the past, then stopped.
• There was a Prince who became King. The Prince was mentored by the elders, and the Prophecy cave mural depicts this.
• “Darkstone” is a material used to craft power diamonds, which can do a lot of things including the levitation of platforms in Vault and certain kinds of flying boats.
• (New from Abyss!) Darkstone was mined undersea. Captured mantas are a part of darkstone creation, though how isn’t exactly clear.
• Darkstone possibly corrupts creatures and spreads darkness. This is what lead to the kingdom eventually starting to struggle.
• The Eden Storm event is still mostly unclear, but theorized to be the result of the King’s actions. The large red diamond at the center of the storm alludes to power diamonds/darkstone being involved.

oh i shouldn’t have spaced that out

[sharp lichen]

This channel will be a pain to backread

[nimble ingot]

Hang on, about the manta being used to mine.
They are suprisingly strong.
In Flight season, they can destroy rocks.

Does that mean the holes we see in the floating islands are possibly made by the mantas?

[sharp lichen]

Lapis got muted???

[nimble ingot]

Tell me about it.

[rigid mural]

Ash's answers on flight were super interesting btw, we learned the guide's outfit was based off the prairie elder's, and that the colors used reflect a sunny day !
They're a concept artist so maybe it's worth asking about visual stuff more often, see what they can reply to the best

[tulip aspen]

ash is amazing, i loved seeing them around

[nocturne ibex]

can anyone do a summary of abyss lore?! :>

[formal skiff]

Someone here had written out a very interesting chunk of text about this season’s lore significance that was sadly ignored for the most part but I forget who it was 🥲

[compact shale]

About the darkstone mined undersea thing...

Wait, was Treasure Reef flooded or was it always that much undersea?

[rigid mural]

could be that

[compact shale]

Oye cozy just became tinfoil lorechat

[rigid mural]

zooming out bc theres a reason why dig in the middle of the sea...

[frigid tinsel]

Hmm, if the facility was located along a fault line, an earthquake and resultant tsunami could’ve wrecked it. Wonder how much ancestors knew about tectonic plates.

Could somewhat explain the huge claw marks on the tower. An earthquake weakened whatever protections were in place for the creatures stored there, containment breach occurs, angry creatures rampage, ancestors flee the facility and, with the tsunami flooding it, leave it as a lost cause.

[delicate anvil]

what exactly is darkstone? /genq
I've seen that be brought up many times but i don't think i exactly get what it is

[tulip aspen]

darkstone is a special resource that seems to suck up light and then emulate some kind of power, making it useful for all sorts of machines

the prince (or maybe just the kingdom) discovered it and the kingdom started mining it so they could use it for all sorts of devices

darkstone, when refined, creates power diamonds

power diamonds can make things float, hold things together, move large objects, and most mysteriously, either project illusions, or tap into the minds of ancestors and skykids

the way/reason they work is that they redirect and chemically change Light essence, which in turn corrupts the Light (somehow)

they seem to spew hazardous waste like corrupted batteries, but it is unclear what causes them to do so, and our only visual example of this occuring is the most dangerous and violent one; the giant diamond in the Eye of Eden

the hazardous waste seems to corrupt all beings of light. It traps the spirits of ancestors within their bodies and corrupts creatures of light (crabs) turning them violent, and decays giant light creatures turning them into undead monsters desperate to have Light again

[still sage]

it may not even be tectonic plates; we saw from the switch trailer that there was land "before" Isle as we know it and just how much it changed. it may just as well be that the Eden Storm event caused some massive earthquakes which shifted water levels (and caused a lot of the building destruction we see)

[delicate anvil]

Ahh I see
What prince are we talking about, exactly?

[tulip aspen]

there are theories based off concept art shown by devs and vague statues in the game that there was a king who ruled the land, the 7th elder

the fall of the kingdom seems to follow everything we know about him, so his life is basically our timeline of what happened to the kingdom

we call him prince when we are referencing an earlier part of the timeline; when he still hasn't been coronated yet

[delicate anvil]

Ahhh
I haven't been keeping up with any of the concept art at all, or lore in general for the past months, might be why idk much about it

[tulip aspen]

theres nothing wrong with not knowing things imo, you're not cooler or anything for remembering these theories, so it's okay to be able to ask questions about things, i think it's fun to anyhow

[sharp lichen]

I’d like to elaborate that darkstone was used since ancient times, but the kingdom and the King/Prince rediscovered it and used it in copious amounts.

[delicate anvil]

Yeah, i like learning and looking into the lore of the game as it's genuinely rally interesting to me, but i sadly don't understand a lot of it😭

[compact shale]

When you want to ask about lore it's best to ask about a specific topic :3

[boreal nebula]

I wonder if that could be a hint about the water jets that sometimes happens on the sea surface behind the main island

I once thought it could be even connected with some underwater geysers but it's really strange that those pops out at random spots too, that's why I once suggested those could be made by smaller water/light creatures, like infants mantas not yet ready to fly outside or by baby canths/whale (since these jets recalled be of IRL whale, emerging and shooting these from their dorsal breathing hole)

that's an interesting idea... which sort of suggests me that maybe those ancient civilization maybe left the bells shattered as a ritual

Each ancestors who came to Sanctuary had to repeat the same process of exploring the island and find them all as a "purification process" to leave the stressful lives behind and get more in touch with nature. So whoever then had to leave the island, had to hide the bells back again for the next generation/visitors
The Treasure Hunt for them was a ritual, while for us it was just a game

@frigid tinsel

But it could also be that we are reading too much into it. After all it was stated by devs that they simply desired to let the players take a break from the pandemic and we don't have to take things to literally there (for example, sunglasses, bowties, cargo pants, manta suit ||straight from the 80s|| or the crew posing to take a group photo were all elements which could have tied Sky to Modern World)

[compact shale]

Why do they have to hide the bells?

[boreal nebula]

Plus I don't understand why the bell we give to QG turns into Cyan Lights the moment it's used to restore a bell

[compact shale]

Bell turns into air, bell was just a memory after all /j

[boreal nebula]

OOH that's a nice anology, only if we knew the concept art Megabird drawing... GOOD CATCH !!!

[boreal nebula]

we turn many things (from Assembly and from Flight) into ethereal light we somehow store and give to questgivers instead of carrying big chunks on our backs
but still no effect of them is showed with Cyan Light, which in Enchantment is used to generate good winds/streams and (iirc) raise the paddle/fins of Ark

[compact shale]

well there's a good reason why there's a /j at the end

maybe we're turning the objects into memories that can be taken in the afterlife

[keen shore]

Whenever we try to eat things, we have to turn them into light balls first - maybe this is just a reversal of that process???

[compact shale]

that's something we achieve with arson

are we burning the objects??

maybe we're burning the objects so that they can be taken by the spirits into the afterlife idk

[boreal nebula]

And yet... sound "is air". Sound waves could not propagate into the empty vacuum of space. It is needed a mean of air to generate a vibration (which basically is created with portions of air with more or less pressure + - + - + )

Like in Avatar Legend Of The Last Airbender , where Aang & Tenzin are able to magnify their shouts even if not stated explicitly to be a Airbending skills and mostly in comic gags

SO, joke aside.. you might be right!

[boreal nebula]

Literally burning them into calories XD

In medieval arabic world, the dragon was an astrological/astronomical symbol. Around year 1000 A.C. a constellation is documented (in Book of Fixed Stars) for the first time in the shape of a serpent dragon, living in the skies and able to generate (solar/lunar) eclipses and also responsible of comets apparitions

I heard this into a TV Documentary and I think it seems to be one of the source for this Concept Art from Tom Zhao's website

Plus it sort of reminded me of the Darkness being responsible for the fall of the stars in the Old Intro of Sky CoTL

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5cf9836e9d1c5200018df596/1582059679982-LA1B7UD6JYG99COWDM9A/194_Sky.jpg

[tulip aspen]

the activity that the season missions were, the map, and the structure make sense as canon tho, it's not a stretch in any sense of the matter

[compact shale]

If the cosmetics/spirits aren't canon then what actually exists? What if the Sanc spirits are all fever dreams? (this is a joke, at least Rally and Sunbather are reasonably real)

What do the canon-accurate Sanc spirits look like HhhhahaahHAHAHAHAH

[harsh pecan]

so did they just wear boring spirit clothes?

[compact shale]

Maybe, or slightly altered

I think Timid and Rally get a pass, Jelly's pants and Sunbather in general might not tho

[frigid tinsel]

They’d look like this. /hj
For some reason the cosmestics on Chill Sunbather didn’t load when I played their cutscene.

[compact shale]

That's not a glitch, the crabs knocked Sunbather's socks cosmetics off

[boreal nebula]

I know, maybe they simple stated that for the cosmetics, rather than for quests. maps and structures

but they were NOT very explicit about what they were talking too. Vagueness as usual

[spark cairn]

Isn't it because the crabs stole em

[frigid tinsel]

[compact shale]

peeled sunbather

[frigid tinsel]

Y’all gonna make me replay that cutscene when I’m done with this essay, huh

[compact shale]

ofc not

the crabs peeled sunbather for being too uncannony

[spark cairn]

Wig snatched by Krebs 😔

[compact shale]

whomst has pnged

[tulip aspen]

w ah t

[harsh pecan]

probs me

[tulip aspen]

i think people are dumb and anyone who cares about the sanct cosmetics visually are dumb

it was dumb the devs ended up needing to make that statement at all in the first place and anyone who triggered that statement to happen are dumb

[compact shale]

I just assume they don't exist lmao

The sudden urge to draw the Sanc spirits as canonically accurate spirits (cosmetics are more in-line with Sky aesthetics)

Just kidding I'd probably fail

[tulip aspen]

it is a cool concept ngl

[boreal nebula]

feel free to draw them as more canonically as you like, I wish to see the final result, if you don't mind

But I think they were canon, they appear in Season of Flight final cutscene, just.. maybe we don't have to read too much into those clothings (not from modern IRL or cape/pants/glasses made out of mantas)

[compact shale]

That's why I said I think the spirits did actually exist HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[spark cairn]

Since chat is dead, I'll post this
I was drawing Scaredy Cadet and wanted to know what cadet meant. Lore chat, your thoughts?

[pastel brook]

[rigid mural]

canon baby

[compact shale]

Possibilities

1. Cadet's the Assembly spirit associated with Wasteland and they're gonna be a soldier when they grow up
2. Cadet has an older sibling
3. Both at once
4. Idk ask Ash

But what's certain in my heart is that Cadet ||will not like the current season||

[sharp lichen]

Perfect response but what was the deal with Sanc cosmetics?

[compact shale]

Them ✨V I B E S✨

[sly kestrel]

“Cadet” isn’t a name, it’s jus describing what kind of person the spirit was

[compact shale]

I think they're asking WHY they're called "Cadet"

Is Cadet a child soldier? /hj

[harsh pecan]

thats kinda sad tho

[sly kestrel]

cadet is jus someone who’s jus starting to be a soldier, doesn’t matter how old they are
A 50 year old can be a cadet

[spark cairn]

Explains why they're so scared of everything

[sly kestrel]

That would suck if they jus sent children to war…

[hushed steeple]

I wonder how well they served when they grew up

[frigid tinsel]

Could’ve been enrolled in one of those military schools or had a military mentor but didn’t go through, hence “Scaredy.”

Isn’t in their cutscene they’re scared of bodies of water, so just hydrophobia?

[formal skiff]

I wonder if they never had a chance to grow up

[frigid tinsel]

They didn’t grow up. They’re a spirit. They died young

[sharp lichen]

Wait what? I’m out of the loop on the Sanc cosmetic controversy

[compact shale]

hydrophobia is a symptom of rabies, Alasdair.

[spark cairn]

In marching adventure memory they decided to take a longer and safer path then across the log. So maybe heights too

[rigid mural]

devs just said the season isnt entirely canon

[formal skiff]

They got bit by a krill

[sly kestrel]

wait
what spirit is the scaredy cadet, that’s like the first time I ever heard that name

[sharp lichen]

But why? Was the dev response related to a complaint of some sort?

[frigid tinsel]

1. hydrophobia can encompass a fear of bodies of water, often caused by an experience of near-drowning, whereas hydrophobia with rabies leans more not wanting to drink water.

2. if that means Cadet had rabies in their spirit memory, we’ve determined cause of death for an ancestor child.

[compact shale]

The word used is "aquaphobia" now
||i have no umbrella||

[frigid tinsel]

Well sorry I’m not up to date on terminology /nm

[sharp lichen]

What is it with Sky and non-canonization? To me, everything can be canon!

[compact shale]

Well...

Lore is hard. That's all I can say.

[sly kestrel]

I don’t think the whole season is jus “non canon”
They don’t rlly want to say what’s completely canon at all, they want us to decide what’s canon for ourselves. Like the glasses and adventure hat from the sanctuary spirit, I don’t think they wanted anyone to think too much about it

[compact shale]

Unfortunately the true canonicities will probably only be revealed after Sky's End of Service

[sly kestrel]

unless u wanna head canon that they’re time travelers

[sharp lichen]

Spirits are allowed to have differing cultures? Just because they don’t fit with the rest of Sky’s culture doesn’t mean that their drip has to be gatekept

[frigid tinsel]

lorechat routinely loses their minds and starts meme-ing or fantasizing about comforting spirits/Elders who had a rough history just to reboot our sanity

[hushed steeple]

It’s been 93858274 years since I have been here how’s it goin

[sly kestrel]

back then, everyone jus started yelling at each other for what’s canon and what’s not
We all thought everything was jus a concrete story

[fickle wing]

insane how short the valley elders r here they rlly just said 🤏

[compact shale]

Lore Is Hard. :(

But yeah it's possible most of them are from a different kingdom

[sharp lichen]

And yes, I mean drip. Not only does this look fantastic, it doesn’t feel out of place.

[compact shale]

omg the skykid/resh in the middle is floating

NOOOOOOOO

[sly kestrel]

sky drip back then was sticking a jellyfish on ur head

[rigid mural]

thats bc they share a braincell

[sharp lichen]

Trials are canon! Starlight Desert is canon! Heck, even Office can be canon!

[frigid tinsel]

sorry to bother you but neither my phone nor my laptop can read the emoji your name is and I'm very curious what it is

[fickle wing]

i don’t think they even use the braincell they just play volleyball w it

[sly kestrel]

oh it’s jus a laugh emoji from the discord server

[frigid tinsel]

jdsfewkhjsbldndasjk,

[compact shale]

Sharing braincells /j /lh

[lofty void]

idiots (affectionate)

[hushed steeple]

That could all be valid information as long as someone can explain w proof, if you have those two down any claim is valid

[sharp lichen]

Too lazy to do my own findings so I’m citing another

[hushed steeple]

Beauty of sky lore

[compact shale]

Season of Dimensions

A season about a bunch of Vault scholars where the process of making other dimensions crash into Sky is shown in more detail

[rigid mural]

hey guys look at this

[lofty void]

why

[sharp lichen]

Sky: No Way Home. This will finally get me the coveted Sky x Fortnite

[compact shale]

oh no you actually shaved Yeti

I know I considered it once but now I regret it

[lofty void]

Season of Recollection
where you learn the world of Sky is more vast than you once thought. Also, Mem

[sly kestrel]

what have u done

[frigid tinsel]

yall need to stop shaving the NPCs smh i swear

[lofty void]

not again vela

[compact shale]

The 4th quest consists of going into Mem's dimension and almost dying

[rigid mural]

[hushed steeple]

Season of concept arts

Where TGC finally brings out the cool elders and Resh/Alef back TGC PLEASE IM BEGGING YOU-

[sharp lichen]

Season of Pain: Every single idea from #wishlist-and-ideas-archived gets implemented in some way. Every one of them!

[hushed steeple]

NO WAY

[sly kestrel]

well idk the names but the old prairie and forest elder masks are still on their temple
I’m still surprised they kept it…

[compact shale]

Season of Rifts

pleaseeeee

[lofty void]

season of mem season of mem season of mem

[ocean wigeon]

hello lore chat!

[spark cairn]

Sorry for delayed response, had to do something real quick.
Scaredy Cadet is a seasonal spirit from season of assembly

[formal skiff]

Season of School:
Vault Elder sits us illiterate skids down and teaches us how to read

[hushed steeple]

Yeah, tbh I hope they don’t remove it, the sky world need to remember concept Teth and Ayin

[harsh pecan]

y e s

[frigid tinsel]

Season of Elderly – every spirit is an old guy who breaks Sky's economy

[compact shale]

So many ideas for a Vault season

-Season where we learn to read
-Season where we learn to open memory cubes
-Season where we learn how to collide dimensions

[sly kestrel]

back when the forest elder was mean and made u get lost in the forest
yes, everyone must remember it

[ocean wigeon]

vulture daleth was so good ngl

[queen pike]

oh my megabird YES

[compact shale]

What if Days of Mischief's hosts are the naughty TS'

Dismiss, Crab Walker, Earth Prophet, Fire Prophet, and Grouch

[sly kestrel]

sometimes I wish they could send us another humongous list of old scrapped concepts
Just to make us lose our heads again

[frigid tinsel]

didn't Water Prophet break the servers when they showed up as TS?
granted that's not that original of a feat but that's what i heard.

[compact shale]

Why was THAT particular one that bad?

[hushed steeple]

Well, I doubt it, if spirits are going to be in events then it’s one specific seasonal crew and not multiple spirits from multiple seasons. But when next year’s days of mischief come, I really would like to have the abyss or enchantment crew to host, maybe assembly is another good idea too

[dense matrix]

but, their idea WAS mischievous

[frigid tinsel]

idk, I wasn't around. moreso thinking of a post that listed the chaos each prophet had caused when Earth Prophet came early.
we should prob be in fear with Air Prophet comes as TS.

[queen pike]

I feel like there's a lot of lore surrounding the king krill. i have so many questions about it....

[compact shale]

Well I can dream tho
And Mischief is where inside jokes are allowed, right?

if it was Assembly:
"Why did we steal the Enchantment Alchemists' pot?"
"Because we're not supposed to?"
"SHUT UP AND LET ME COOK"
"That's not cooking, that's just fire!"

[sly kestrel]

ppl call it king krill?
I thought it was jus a giant…..fish

[frigid tinsel]

names I've heard:
leviathan, Levi, Ruby, mega krill, king krill, giant fish

[queen pike]

in the angler's memory, i saw krill in the water. makes me wonder if they go through a larval stage in the water. but i'm also confused since they show up in eden 🤔

[formal skiff]

Season of cuteness:

• Oreo is QG
• nontoxic krill BOOPS

[lofty void]

Don’t forget Shadow Leviathan <3

[sly kestrel]

I’m guessing they grow eventually bc the krill in the memory was tiny

[compact shale]

And jorgunmander, kratos, brutos, etc.

[queen pike]

I sometimes call it (in my head) the Krill Mother, or mother of krill.

As soon as the season started i'm like: "I smell L O R E"

[compact shale]

vaccuum up that lore

[frigid tinsel]

we know krill are corrupted light creatures, but we don't know what their light version was ("light dragon" to dark dragon pipeline). given the size of the leviathan, I'm leaning towards corrupted whale.
aka the ancestors decided to screw around and find out

[hushed steeple]

Shouldn’t “elder krill” also be a good idea for the creature? Yk just like the elder manta in the sanctuary? A huge version of a species surrounded by a large amount of its own

[queen pike]

corrputed light creatures? what makes you think that?

[harsh pecan]

its confirmed

[queen pike]

wait, really? where?

[harsh pecan]

qna i think

[tulip aspen]

they're cool

they may not be "canonical" but they capture the characters of the sanct team extremely well, a bunch of lazy tourists

[sly kestrel]

well if it’s a corrupted whale how come it looks entirely different from the whale
It’s not like they jus change their entire species when they get corrupted….right?

[frigid tinsel]

corruption can imply any degree of transformation from the original manifest

[tulip aspen]

whay-

[formal skiff]

Same-

[tulip aspen]

fr
everyone else wilding

[compact shale]

They had to...

maybe they didn't think it needed fixing, but I guess the controversy rose too high

[queen pike]

👀

[compact shale]

JAM WDYM NO

[tulip aspen]

it dumb
there shouldnt even be a controversy

they did it because people were getting genuinely mad that theyd make a season with noncanonical cosmetics like child what-

[formal skiff]

What even is the controversy?

[compact shale]

I don't know the details about it. :/

[tulip aspen]

ive heard things here and ghere

[hushed steeple]

It can, but I would also like to say that often in sky sharp, jagged shapes represent corruption, softer, more organic shapes show safety and light, and clean geometric shapes show technology and civilization

[sly kestrel]

[frigid tinsel]

can you stop ranting about cosmestics being canon, it's heedless, we know you think it's dumb, it's a fruitless convo, let's move on

[compact shale]

I'm fruitless! :D

[tulip aspen]

i mean, they asked me my opinion, but ye lol

i wanna talk more about nonbiological ancestors but ima wait till morning again when everyone is active like that cos we got some amazing discussions about it and the life cycle theories and i was really happy

[hushed steeple]

DID SOMEONE SAY LIFE CYCLE??!!/$:$;

[formal skiff]

I love you very much lorechat, but I think this channel sometimes overthinks/overanalyzes things that, as much as we hate to admit it, sometimes just aren’t that deep

[frigid tinsel]

don't make me tap the sign

[harsh pecan]

oh you said it

[sly kestrel]

the sign?

[compact shale]

The sign of existence

[frigid tinsel]

I have 4 of these

[hushed steeple]

God I don’t know where to start with the life cycle it’s so cool

[compact shale]

What if we ask Ash "What are Sunbather's glasses made of?"

[sly kestrel]

the whole life cycle thing was always a clear concept tho

[harsh pecan]

make sure to write that down

[compact shale]

What life cycle theories

[hushed steeple]

Yeah, but there is a concept art that mentioned the HUMAN WORLD being involved with it all

[sly kestrel]

so u guys just gather giant lists and wait patiently until ash arrives so u can ask her a bunch of questions….

u don’t say hi first?

[frigid tinsel]

so I got curious and after searching "corrupted light creatures" in lorechat, I didn't find a dev who said any combination of that phrase of words. but there seems to be a sudden shift from people in this channel questioning whether krill were corrupted to stating outright that krill are corrupted in mid July 2021 because "dev confirmed it."
so was there a vid that dropped in July 2021 that said as much?

[hushed steeple]

Human souls would come down and live on earth, and when they are partially filled with memories after they died, they will go into the sky world and live another life. After that, the soul returns to Megabird and their memories are emptied. What I think is the point of this process is to provide information for Megan so she can evolve and lead her species better and better. Although, due to the fall of the kingdom souls cannot reach megan due to the storm in eden, us skids are supposed to open up that blockage to let the souls through. BUT THATS JUST MY IDEA…

[formal skiff]

Probably in a livestream somewhere?

[hushed steeple]

I THINK i saw screenshots before??

[frigid tinsel]

so that quip is hearsay rn?

[tulip aspen]

i mean if you mean me you can talk to me directly lol

you don't have to make it vague cos I'm perfectly fine with hearing it

[frigid tinsel]

disclosure: i also made this but never have had an opportunity to use it.

[hushed steeple]

BUT IT IS THAT DEEP

[harsh pecan]

exactly

[frigid tinsel]

no i'm not using it just saying it's in my meme arsenal

[hushed steeple]

OH OAKy

[tulip aspen]

fr lmao

[frigid tinsel]

don't worry, I haven't joined the side of the bots

[tulip aspen]

iir(vaguely) it was def from a livestream ye lol

much more info comes from the livestreams than you'd expect tbh

which is admittedly annoying cos like you said, it's not in writing

[distant turtle]

Cool. I can’t remember the concept art of Megabird I’m thinking of. But this fan art has the style. It has that similar shape as the Sanctuary bell shrine structure. Plus, the shrine has that bird ornament on the very top.

[frigid tinsel]

well if that livestream was in July 2021, I missed it. I started playing Sky in August 2021 and only joined this server a couple months later.
not saying I don't believe the quip, just that I've been mimicking this apparent hearsay without proof and didnt question it til now

[formal skiff]

Oh, no I legitimately am not referring to anyone in particular, just overall

I think it has something to do with the fact that we don’t have enough material to base very many Big Lore ideas off of, so we settle for trying to figure out tiny details

[compact shale]

I'm trying to look for Jenova's statement where they say krill are corrupted

[frigid tinsel]

even a youtube link with a timestamp would be useful

[frigid tinsel]

who's the artist?

[distant turtle]

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[compact shale]

ah, so it's from the Sky website

[distant turtle]

https://youtu.be/ExFbw_DtYqI screenshot from here.

[frigid tinsel]

ah so that's why reverse image search didn't bring up anything

[frigid tinsel]

i found the article that screenshot is from : https://www.thatskygame.com/news/sky-2nd-anniversary-livestream-recap
let's go, yall, we got it in text that krill are corrupted light creatures, thanks Jenova Chen

[compact shale]

Woo! :D

[formal skiff]

Yay!

[compact shale]

It's more recent than I thought...

haahah

I like how it also mentions that Elena ran away from Kyle (maybe metaphorically but still)

[harsh pecan]

Who are those?

[compact shale]

TGC stafff lmao

[harsh pecan]

Ohh

[compact shale]

Salem be writing a full essay here

[frigid tinsel]

the anticipation has been killing me

[keen shore]

Ask and you shall receive [because I’ve been thinking about this for a while too]

EVIDENCE FOR BIOLOGICAL ANCESTORS

• The farm in forgotten ark, the angler catching fish & their character card, and the roasting crabs in wasteland. Ancestors need to eat some way or another
• Fainting Warrior’s spirit memory shows them dying to… something. Commonly speculated to be an injury of some kind, but can also be starvation - can be interpreted many different ways. Ancestors die to things that would not kill a skykid - for example, starvation and attack by assorted weaponry
• Ancestors feel the need to construct shelter from the weather [numerous houses, especially visible in valley] and wear warm clothing in cold areas [bearhug hermit, most abyss spirits]. Several are also shown with umbrellas. Ancestors are affected negatively by being too cold (and maybe too hot) although whether this can kill them like hypothermia kills us squishy humans is unclear]
• Slouching Soldier spirit memory suggests ancestors can drink, along with maybe indifferent alchemist attempting to purify the water. It’s unclear if they needed to drink, though. Disclaimer: first piece of evidence listed in this bullet point is from a season that is often debated over in terms of canonness [although I believe this specific bit of it is true] and second part could just be for plants. Ancestors can drink, which we more than likely cannot. However, it’s unknown if they need to to survive or do it for some other reason.
• Ancestors exist in all different shapes and sizes, including adults and children. __Might mean ancestors have something closer to a human body that’s more variable than shorter and taller versions of skykids, but could just be to avoid same face (body?) syndrome]
  (1/2)

[harsh pecan]

Wow

[keen shore]

• Ancestors fear death and causing it to others [WITH A NOTABLE EXCEPTION FOR VALLEY SPIRITS, WHO DO NOT SEEM TO VALUE THEIR OWN LIVES]. Evidence: lumberjack apologizing heavily for almost committing manslaughter, tearful light miner crying over dead friends, so on. Ancestors probably cannot get punted back to earth immediately after death like we do. However, if they get assimilated into the Light Creature Soup upon death, this could just be a fear of losing individuality over a fear of death like we typically think of it
• Ancestors need or use rebreathers in some way [season of abyss]. How, exactly, they work is hard to figure out. This may be [but is not 100% irrefutable] interpreted as them having lungs
• Ancestors use and value very temporary things. [Possible but debated paper books in various spirit memories, wooden furniture] This may be interpreted as them having limited lifespans and don’t care about losing things early.

If I forgot anything lmk. Onto the counter arguments

[frigid tinsel]

Ancestors fear death and causing it to others [WITH A NOTABLE EXCEPTION FOR VALLEY SPIRITS, WHO DO NOT SEEM TO VALUE THEIR OWN LIVES].

[tulip aspen]

nice work fam!

[tulip aspen]

it honestly all still feels too stretchy for me, and i countered many and even most of those points, idk

[compact shale]

Let's see your counteressay, then!

[tulip aspen]

drinking from slouch certainly is interesting tho

that's like literally the only one i wouldnt have a counter for, but again, it's not steadily canon, and even if it was, it'd be yet again more magical than anything else

[compact shale]

The drink goes into the void /j

but yeah we await your counteressay

[frigid tinsel]

ancestors at least had mouths. can't say the same for skids

[late wasp]

fires also need air to survive
and at least Sky Kids have internal fires (their souls). explaining the need of "air".
given by how our disembodied souls (seen in Eden when done in multiplayer) looks just like the disembodie spirit of ancestors, we could theorize that ancestors also carry an inner flame, and thus have the need of air.

[tulip aspen]

we dont know that they had mouths

[frigid tinsel]

what other orifice could they eat with?

[compact shale]

their eyes or core (creepy tho)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[tulip aspen]

well, thats why ive been making that theory that they absorb light from small light creatures

[harsh pecan]

Are you sure?

[late wasp]

also on the nature of "drinking", i've pointed out in the past that it could work in a similar fashion to how the geysers (which are hot, because volcanoes) recharge our energy. not because of the water, but because of the heat.

water could easily be just a rudimentary mean of transferring heat. village of dreams is also located near hotsprings, for example. so even the sky kid / ancestors drinking can be called into question.

[tulip aspen]

maskless ancestors have near if not identical faces to skids, so yeah, any logic applied to skids should still be applied in the same visual-confirmation sort of way

[keen shore]

I’m kind of eh on using visuals to say if small details like mouths do or do not exist just because of the game’s low detail in general, I feel like I’d need more evidence to say if mouths exist in either group. Skykids don’t have much need of mouths but ancestors more than likely do

[tulip aspen]

in abyss angler catches the "knife" fish, which are light creatures

light creatures are made of Light, so if the character card confirmed the angler is catching light creature fish to eat them, then that's my conclusion, they absorb the light

i see no reason why they would actually bite into the light creature, they are both beings of light with likely no organs (because they are, again, made of light)

[keen shore]

Oh, also, ancestors probably have noses at the very least - the statues in GW have them :^]

[late wasp]

there will be an update that will add a lot more fishes, but yeah, all fishes there are light creatures.
yui said as much in the recent livestream.

we can extrapolate to say in the Sky World there are just light and dark creatures. ||although i don't think light creatures are made of light||

[tulip aspen]

the ancestors are not eating meat: they have no reason to bite

[tulip aspen]

interesting, what do you mean?

[frigid tinsel]

there is a degree of tangibility to light in Sky. in light creatures, light could manifest as flesh for them. for ancestors, they could be composed of magic light flesh or biological flesh.

[tulip aspen]

could as in theoretically or could as in it's feasible?

[keen shore]

Not to be rude, but that seems like a bit of a leap in logic all fish after the disaster (which abyss might take place after) are light creatures, so that means non light or dark creatures never existed at all? It’s possible, but although I don’t really favor either side here, am going to need more evidence for that

[upbeat siren]

But ancestors also seem to reproduce.. the confident tourist in valley has a child with it and reproducing would be a pretty biological thing

[tulip aspen]

magic light flesh or biological flesh, i still dont see how everyone thinks it's an easier and more comfortable path to assert they likely are made of flesh rather than just being what they are: beings of light?

[late wasp]

imo they are "biological" animals, that can evolve, etc. but they all evolved to use heat in a very efficient way, living off of it and light. they have bones after all.

[compact shale]

Hahaha for the bio ancestors thing I don't favor any side lol AHFHS

[keen shore]

Keep in mind I still haven’t written the counter essay for my original point yet - was wondering if Jam would do it first

[tulip aspen]

people cant maturely handle that topic so we cant talk about it really, also i dont think there's actual proof of anything and that ancestors can just take younger ancestors under their wing, so to say

[tulip aspen]

im playing arceus-

plus i prefer actually discussing it rather than posting it because no one will read my post
(I'll still post a proper counter in a bit ofc, you'll prolly be asleep by then tho..)

[keen shore]

Some light creatures are confirmed to have bones [mantas (could be any size), coelacanths, various others we don’t see in game] while others [ancestors if they count? possibly smaller mantas, fish] are not confirmed to but it’s possible that they do

[late wasp]

computer viruses also reproduce. or viruses, or robots, etc.
some crystals also spread and all. reproduction is not entirely "biological".

however imo i don't think the ancestors reproduced sexually, it was probably some sort of asexual reproduction.

[keen shore]

That’s fine! I can just do it myself, I’ve been thinking about it for a while anyways :3c

[tulip aspen]

the only manta bones we've officially seen are in the 4th floor of vault, which is uh.... a tad illusion-y of a floor

[keen shore]

My logic is that for those to exist [especially if you see vault as a projection or as a mindspace that isn’t ours] they’d have to have an irl reference that we hadn’t seen, especially considering how accurate they are

[late wasp]

anyways, I just see the creatures, the more ethereal ones, like jellyfish lol
or balloon animals. they are likely a lot less meaty than Earth animals. since they have to be energy efficient and light.

[tulip aspen]

perhaps, but bone inclusivity (and lore content in general) relies on expressing something for the game rather than implying anything for the lore tbh

[keen shore]

Oh also! Can’t believe I managed to forget about this earlier but there is some sort of Fuzzy Animal that a bunch of spirits have managed to get fur cosmetics from. Either somewhere out there is a fluffy light creature (not sure why they’d need fur) or they’re from actual animal

[late wasp]

hair

[frigid tinsel]

beings of light can have light flesh. there's a degree of tangibility of light in Sky and diversity in how light can manifest.

the thing is, ancestors seem the most human out of all the other beings of Sky. like humans, they are the only ones who eat, drink, sleep, need to breathe, grow, and fear death. other beings of Sky, who we are sure are mostly composed of light, are ethereal and don't appear to exhibit these biological needs. the reason that would make ancestors so different from light creatures are biological qualities.

you said so yourself – ancestors are the anomaly.

[rigid mural]

Wooly mantas

[frigid tinsel]

like other beings of Sky, ancestors do have some inner light that allows them to manipulate light (as seen with the Switch release trailer) or utilize supernatural powers (Levitating Adept, telekinesis). they also have hair and eyes made of light. now it's a question of their magic light to biological flesh ratio, but it seems they're more biological than light being.

[compact shale]

I sense a new drawing coming up soon

[keen shore]

So the fainting warrior spirit memory never shows blood (probably due to game ratings…) and there are no bloodstains in GW, even old ones. Combine that with the idea our skykids candle is pulsating to be more familiar to spirits and… maybe their blood is pure light??

[frigid tinsel]

it's not ridiculous, it's a fair conclusion from the observations we got. not like we have much to speculate with.

[rigid mural]

I'm not on a computer so no, but imagine

[tulip aspen]

skykids fear death, they flinch and cower and cover themselves, and it's not cos theyre copying ancestors in that moment, you see it as an impulse reaction

skids and ancestors both 'breath', im not sure where you got that ancestors directly need to breathe, and remember, if the diving masks arent doing anything OXYGEN wise, then they're doing something LIGHT wise, implying whatever their "breathing" situation is underwater, it has to do with their LIGHT, not air

they grow unnaturally, those who are older can be shorter and look relatively... young?
That's why i still believe in that theory that experiences alter their forms over time

drinking, as we've said, is an unsteady topic and even then we dont know if they NEED to

them eating the way yall want them to depends on light creatures being flesh and not light which is-
kinda annoying that it's getting so implied, but i can live

.
i really do think fleshy mantas vs. light mantas should be a much more balanced convo evidence wise, but just because biological has more appeal it's not so rip

[keen shore]

Keep in mind that we never see if the abyss spirits actually attempt to eat the fish or not. It’s… a bit of a stretch admittedly but worth pointing out!

Two other routes include:

• angler gets frustrated they caught fish that just dissipate upon being killed and throw them back, trying to find a new catch
• this catch of fish is not meant to eat but to charge the darkstone the crew is collecting

[compact shale]

1. Isn't the reaction of skykids flinching and covering themselves just them trying to protect their light in dangerous places?
2. The tiny diamond in the lebreather mask can store some extra light to draw on if it's a light issue they're dealing with

[late wasp]

angler throws fish back?
i recently redid the quest, and I'm pretty sure they just caught some fish, stored them in a basket, and when the basket was full, angler told guide to take them back to the ship while the angler would catch more in the meanwhile.

[tulip aspen]

technically?
isnt it the same thing?

also yeah exactly, imo diving mask PROVES the breathing meter is a Light condition not an air condition

[keen shore]

I didn’t say they did in the memory, just saying it’s possible after the memory ends and the krill leaves

[tulip aspen]

que
not sure if i follow bth

[compact shale]

1. Maybe, maybe not. Idc.
2. Hah. Yeah now That I think about it I can't think of a way it helps with AIR

[tulip aspen]

off topic, but does it show the guide glitching out for you?

towards the end of the memory, it shows her heading back to the boat, but she's walking in the open sea away from the rocks-

[late wasp]

yeah, i mentioned how it implies that the landscape of the island changed.
probably something to do with the giant claw mark on the tower

[keen shore]

Another thing to keep in mind (although it may not be applicable to this situation) is that cosmetics are canonically thank you gifts from spirits, and giving us a rebreather that wouldn’t work for us would be a bad gift. Combine this with the fact that it’s the only cosmetic we haven’t seen one of the spirits wear (iirc) and it could have just been made for us specifically

[spark cairn]

Sorry if I read the chat wrong, but there's ts hints saying that some spirits were vegetarian. How would that be possible if all living things are either dark or light creatures?

[late wasp]

ah! ash said hints are a joke

[tulip aspen]

it is still possible, but that just balances out the odds on bio vs light-being again, because i originally made that point cos y'all kept using the diving mask as an argument for bio theory, so either way it still proves that argument invalid and both theories at an awkward standstill lolol

lets hope we see the guide use it in part 5 then, otherwise that'll be awkward cos the standstill will remain indefinitely lmao

[spark cairn]

Oh ok. What's the point of them anyway

[late wasp]

someone here once explained it perfectly.
if it were for those spirits to exist in an alternative reality, like our own
that's how they would be.

like a spin off where they are humans living on Earth

[frigid tinsel]

it's possible they could've altered their rebreathers to work for us if our biology is different. the same train of thought with the Assembly spirits making those flying hoops – they can't fly, what would they have used them for? or rather they took inspiration from the flying skykids who helped them out and made something fun for us. the flying hoops only appear about the final Assembly quest, so those spirits had known us for a good bit.

perhaps the Abyss guide has a knack for tech, like a techie. could be why the rest of the crew took them on. both the rebreather and the flying hoops have power diamonds in them.

[tulip aspen]

i thought they couldve been for the birds

but also, because the treehouse is made now and not back then, i think the hoops really are just made for us, yeah

but the hoop is just a power diamond with sticks attached to it

the diver mask in comparison feels and looks important

[compact shale]

How do spirits make new things in the present?

[keen shore]

Chat has slowed down so time for round 2: COUNTERARGUMENTS

• Many things that ancestors Need to do, listed as proof that they are biological, apply to skykids as well. We need to monitor our “breath” (whatever that means…) when underwater, although this doesn’t necessarily mean we have lungs. We need to rest to get back up to full candle forging potential. We do something adjacent to eating - when given food, we burn it to absorb the wax, which is also a potential theory for how ancestors “eat”.
• There are a lot of candles that might not be completely necessary in places with lots of ancestors like village of dreams, first area of forest, the hermit’s cave, and even the abyss boat. This isn’t even mentioning the braziers scattered around golden wasteland. Gameplay mechanic to keep us from losing light? Maybe. However, it is also possible that these are made by and for ancestors (ESPECIALLY the candles) to recharge when they’re at low light.
• The blue star representing an ancestors soul “core” (basically what the image of them is formed around) and our soul “core” after we die in Eden are identical!! :3x
• No solid and irrefutable proof that ancestors need to drink water exists; the pipes in GW and Eden might just be for carrying away waste instead of carrying clean water. This would explain why there are no pipes running through valley and isle - first of which is a mountain with clear water and a city that would demand use of Tons of water, the second of which clearly needs water in general. I mean… look at it… even if these ARE for water, they can be for cleaning things/baths and not drinking from.
• rebreather mask possibly could have been used by ancestors in the same way we use it
  (1/2)

[compact shale]

Regarding the lebreather...

Is it possible that it's the only cosmetic that doesn't follow the "cosmetics made of light" rule?

If the power diamond is important to its function, then replicating it purely out of light would make it useless

[frigid tinsel]

been wondering the same about the chibi mask

[keen shore]

• the focus on blunt instead of sharp weapons in GW could mean several things. I have already mentioned how I think the spears are for bringing down krill but have a double use in breaking stone shields, while the swords are for finishing off opponents (originally developed for krill, but can work against anyone if you hit them hard enough). Alternate explanation is that ancestors naturally have a thick, hard shell like us, so sharp things wouldn’t work against them - this would also explain why no effort was put into making armor
• Despite being a big city, valley doesn’t seem to have a great method of ensuring its inhabitants have the resources they need to survive like a human city would. There are no methods for ferrying around clean water, there are no nearby farms or food stores, and so on. There are two possible explanations for this. The first is that they do exist within the city, but in places we can’t get to yet. The second is that ancestors didn’t need them at all and so they never existed in the first place.
• Shelter could’ve been built for privacy instead of protection from the elements - outside of valley we don’t really see tons of buildings that are obvious houses. This doesn’t explain why the shivering trailblazer is, well, shivering, but skykids can most likely sense the cold too since they’d have to burn brighter and hotter to keep warm
• We have to burn away an outer shell of darkness to reveal a spirit’s actual soul when reliving memories. This “outer shell and inner light” is reminiscent of skykids
• Most of the deaths feared that I mentioned above happen when an ancestor is, or is at risk of, being crushed to death. If we assume that the outer shell isn’t invulnerable, this cause of death would almost definitely still work on ancestors. They might even be more susceptible to it than people.

If I forgot anything feel free to add (2/2)

[frigid tinsel]

now I'm wondering if skykids could die being crushed and that's not a pleasant image

[tulip aspen]

EVIDENCE AGAINST BIOLOGICAL ANCESTORS

• light creatures are not confirmed to have meat, so any mention of light creatures being sustenance more likely the ancestors are consuming Light, which would be gained indirectly, similar to skykids gaining wax
• skykids die too, and also turn into statues
  --[in fact, an important note salem once made about the clayshell theory is that it's relevant BECAUSE skykids harden into statues, which ancestors (visually) do too!]
• Ancestors need shelter because they lived long term in the kingdom, skykids can travel anywhere they want very quickly, ancestors dont have that luxury, so they set up camps when they get tired of travel.
  Skykids also do need rest, but that wouldn't be shown much in gameplay besides chevron recovery/tiring.
  We also have no proof skykids dont get cold, because they may simply just not know how to EXPRESS that until the ancestors give them that ability, as per our iconic expressions notations our anatomy and behaviour theorists agreed on months ago
• drinking dark water, if it truly was a thing some ancestors did, was probably as unnatural as can be. assuming they are clayshell they still could pour the water all over their face, and it'd soak into the shell or through... the eyes.... (fruity stop)
• Ancestors had bodies/heights/forms based off their personality, with much variance.
  Reproduction likely does not exist as light beings(or organisms) cannot create more light beings(or organisms) (...unless offspring would be completely devoid of light?)
  {Age networking is extremely unclear, and the youngest ancestors we've met were at most visually similar to a 15/16 year old human, (foot appendage)ing the line between being kids but still needing to be shown as older than skykids.}
  (1/2)

[keen shore]

HAHA IM FASTER /j

[tulip aspen]

anything could die being crushed

strictly speaking skids arent immortal at all, and imo any skid death that's not in eden isnt canon because we dont go through the proper limbo and ascension, so clearly eden has something to do with the reason why skids can ascend (so even if skids are way more powerful than ancestors at the ascension process, they still are needing help via tapping into some unknown power at work)

i think skids can die by any general means as long as their shell breaks, our wl is the only thing that protects us

[keen shore]

Unless our outer shell is 100% unbreakable and invulnerable we can totally get crushed. It’s probably one of the only “natural” things that could kill us

[harsh pecan]

Debate?

[frigid tinsel]

of course skykids can die. but all means of their deaths so far is from a lack of light and succumbing to darkness, not their bodies physically breaking

[keen shore]

Me and I think alasdair?? had a conversation a WHILE ago about ancestors needing to eat, drink, and do all that fun stuff but since it obviously caused issues (read. War and suffering) and the consciousnesses of the ancestors who had experienced that were in Megabird soup at the time, needing to do any of those things was removed for skykids

It’s an explanation for why both Can be clayshells but only one has/need mouths

[frigid tinsel]

yea it was me, you, and maybe Lapis musing about god again. here was my take on it: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[tulip aspen]

• skykids fear death just like ancestors, skids flinch and cower and cover themselves, and it's not cos theyre copying ancestors in that moment, you see it as an impulse reaction

-skids and ancestors both 'breath', ancestors are definitely not confirmed to directly need to breathe, and remember, if the diving masks arent doing anything OXYGEN wise, then they're doing something LIGHT wise, implying whatever their "breathing" situation is underwater, it has to do with their LIGHT, not air
{{HOWEVER, abyss isnt finished and we dont even know if the guide ends up using/would have used the mask. It is possible that it only canonically exists as a creation for skykids from the guide, but i honestly doubt it, as that would make the cosmetic non-canon essentially (to kingdom lore anyway)

them eating the way yall want them to depends on light creatures being flesh and not light, which is still a massive IF, but currently and for the time into the future it seems like it will be the popular bias to imply as obvious la sigh

fleshy mantas vs. light mantas should be a much more balanced convo evidence wise, but just because biological has more appeal this will remain an unbalanced conversation due to popular insight rather than logic
(2/2)