yeah i lost my sanity a long time ago
#lore-discussion-spoilers
wide root
What lives in the seas....
sinful gull
you guys know that thing on the wall in the ||office||? showcasing like the realms and stuff
is there an actual picture of that or is it only found there?
tender dune
no spoiler tags here dw
hushed steeple
In the what?
wide root
Idk why would anyone know why
hushed steeple
wide root
Should we even consider the office to be included in sky’s lore?
hushed steeple
I would say no
tender dune
they're old designs and concept art
hushed steeple
Concept art yes
tender dune
same pics as the things u find in the pinned messages
hushed steeple
Mm
tender dune
np
hushed steeple
There are whole pages of concept art on Sky’s insta page
Just for future reference
wide root
Don’t trust concept art
hushed steeple
Creepy
wide root
It’s like looking at someone who built a fossil by carving a rock
hushed steeple
Pfft
tender dune
xD
hushed steeple
I keep forgetting stuff
lethal stump
concept art is almost all we have, and some (like the art in office) is mostly canon
the different realms do represent stages of life
hushed steeple
Yeah
wide root
Yes, but those that aren’t in game aren’t reliable because it’s mostly scrapped ideas
tender dune
not necessary scrapped
wide root
Yes, scrapped ideas, such as the king
tender dune
just because something was scraped doesnt mean that they started from 0 again
there is always a bit of origin from the concepts
lethal stump
the king isn’t scrapped, he’s cannon
tender dune
like the elder names
lethal stump
devs said so
hushed steeple
Concept art is some of the rawest material you can find from a game because that is when the true colours of a proposed plot shows it’s self and then the current game has the a watered down version?
I don’t know
wide root
The king doesn’t exist!!!!
hushed steeple
It made more sense in my head
lethal stump
yes he does, the devs literally said he was in-game
wide root
So he’s hiding in the game
static spoke
Bricky’s word is law
hushed steeple
Yes
lethal stump
no my word is not law
wide root
Is that an invitation to a treasure hunt
hushed steeple
No
static spoke
Ok, close to law
hushed steeple
It is lore
tender dune
anyone not agreeing to bricky will be grinded in my manta grinder
static spoke
Bricky = Elder of Lore
hushed steeple
Damn
wide root
U can’t grind big lobster
lethal stump
hushed steeple
With foot grind lobster
wide root
big lobster is judging you all
hushed steeple
Oh damn
lethal stump
- cough*
lore
static spoke
Exactly Brick
lethal stump
anyways, in regards to the king, the devs have said:
- he’s important to the lore & story of sky
- he’s in game, just not in the way you expect and not like the other elders
in regards to the prince, we don’t know if he is or is not canon
wide root
Who is even tagging yes
hushed steeple
A uncertain part of the plot yet to be made?
wide root
Otherwise the prince is the king and the moth u hug when u die in eden
hushed steeple
Ruler of the afterlife
wide root
Or else he’s an easter egg, hiden in sky
hushed steeple
There is an actual Easter egg in forest
wide root
Ik
lethal stump
he’s not very hidden
hushed steeple
Anyone tell me what that is)
lethal stump
you see statues of him in wasteland
tender dune
literal easter egg
hushed steeple
Where Bricky??
wide root
Bricky, your statues are robot-cyclops
lethal stump
here’s the art of them, they’re in battlefield
lethal stump
that’s a possibility
hushed steeple
This games music and senery is more than meets the eye
The king could be blind or maybe it’s just design
wide root
And worse he doesn’t have arms, nor he seems to wear a proper cape but instead a cylindrical clothe
urban grotto
He is watching
wide root
Tv
lethal stump
in many concepts he had arms, they were just under the cape
hushed steeple
It would be to obvious if they showed the king had arms
The king is suppose to be something hidden in plain sight right?
wide root
It would have showed his arms instead
hushed steeple
Might it be too obvious?
wide root
The moth u hug in eden
lethal stump
he’s just there in an unexpected way
hushed steeple
Yes
lethal stump
we don’t know what that’s supposed to mean
wide root
Hugs gives life
hushed steeple
Watching over us but never seen
I haven’t had a hug in 5 moths!
I’m dead obviously
sinful gull
We can’t really know for sure who that is
wide root
Me
hushed steeple
True
sinful gull
That figure’s identity remains a mystery
lethal stump
no theories are canon, they’re theories
sinful gull
I know
hushed steeple
All hail Bricky
wide root
A theory can’t be applied without proofs
hushed steeple
I think the king would be something that’s in all the worlds but hidden in plain sight but I believe the kings design would be much more complex because of its suppose role
wide root
So i don’t think the king exists or existed because there’s no verified proof other than words. We never saw his remnants or his costume
lethal stump
but. the devs said he exists
tender dune
^
sinful gull
Just because we have never actually seen him face to face doesn’t mean he isn’t there.
hushed steeple
Agreed
wide root
I’m septic to what devs say
wind bone
You think the devs would just lie about that?
hushed steeple
But the devs are the devs…
wind bone
Who else would the ruler of a kingdom be
sinful gull
They’re the devs of the game..... they know the most about it
lethal stump
hushed steeple
Why would they lie…?
tender dune
wide root
Maybe they’re hiding stuff waiting to be found
wind bone
Hiding stuff isn’t the same as directly lying
hushed steeple
But I suppose in a way not all things are permanent because it is a game and things have to change
wind bone
They could have just not said anything about the king
They don’t have to answer any of our questions about the lore
hushed steeple
Agreed
sinful gull
I feel there is something that will give us the information we need in the future, but for now we continue to theorize and have to work with what the Devs themselves have given us. They created the game, they know what the story is.
hushed steeple
Yes
wind bone
The game has been in development for 7 years and they’ve said they have the overarching story planned ahead for up to 2 years after launch
wide root
The king doesn’t exist if we can’t prove what devs said
sinful anvil
Pale King 🤝 getting everyone speculating where they are now 🤝 Eden king
hushed steeple
We can’t disprove things that haven’t been said yet so we can’t count any theory’s out
sinful anvil
i know pale king is shown somehow but shhh
wind bone
Who would the dude in the kingdom that lives in the realm with a crown constellation be if not a king
lethal stump
janitor
wind bone
Ugh your mind
tender dune
whos the pale king?
hushed steeple
Ooh
sinful anvil
pale king is from hollow knight lol
tender dune
oh
wide root
I tough it was a manta constellation
frail hearth
even tho they are completely unrelated games sky gives me hk vibes ngl
tender dune
just like Kos
sinful anvil
i feel like they’re rly different but fun to connect
wide root
Not a crown... there’s no crown other than a constellation in the game
sinful gull
there are statues of the king. you can find his presence throughout the game. He exists
hushed steeple
I swear you keep saying that @tender dune
sinful anvil
just like the way u see king’s sigils in hallownest
tender dune
bloodborne
hushed steeple
The devs have said so so why question them
hushed steeple
My eyes
hollow orbit
the king exists and it is a crown
short owl
My theory is still that the concept king is the prince being consumed by darkstone
wide root
What
sinful anvil
but given pale king’s … consequence in hollow knight, ive learned just bc there are a lot of statues everywhere, or a lot of evidence of worship, does not mean the king is alive
or the king is present here and now
lethal stump
afaik, everything is dead
wind bone
The devs said in a very specific way that there is nothing left to save for the eden elder
sinful gull
It’s been confirmed by the Devs that he is not around to be saved anymore.... but he is present in the game and is even stated as important in the game
wind bone
Not just oh he’s not here but he can’t be saved
sinful gull
^^
hushed steeple
I believe all the statues in the game are linked somehow, when we go to home the statue in the return to last save thing is the same as the light statues in Eden
lethal stump
« the eden elder isn’t around to be saved anymore »
we assume that the eden elder is the king
sinful anvil
so he is Too Far Gone?
wind bone
Thanos snapped
hollow orbit
spoilers for hollow knight:
||if we’re comparing hk to sky then does that mean alef is somewhere dead in a throne||
wide root
So he doesn’t exist anymore
hushed steeple
Who knows 
wind bone
I say it a lot but to me the kings exists mirrors wd gaster heavily
Except that the king is more implied to have existed
short owl
Thw prince has a mask that looks a lot like darkstone. Concept or king (pre corrupt) shows a lil person in the head. If darkstone constantly consumed his energy in exchange for great power, he would likely be exausted and in great pain by the time we come along.
lethal stump
WD gaster 🤝pale king🤝Eden King
being elusive figures in game with big affects on lore
sinful gull
hushed steeple
It says we made a mistake or something like that in the beginning of the game so maybe that’s a problem caused by what happened with the kind and why we are here to sort these thing out
short owl
Thank u queen bee
wind bone
Eden is that mistake they talk about
sinful gull
my pfp is a hornet with a burger king crown-
wind bone
Have u guys noticed the diamond is completely broken
hollow orbit
WD gaster 🤝pale king🤝Eden King
being elusive figures in game with big affects on lore
@lethal stump theyre all somewhere having coffee at a table and laughing at our suffering
wind bone
I think that when the diamond broke is when everything really went to ruin
wide root
Wich diamond?
hushed steeple
Yeah
sinful gull
The power diamond
wind bone
The large one
sinful gull
Yeah
hushed steeple
The diamond shape in the eye of Eden
hollow orbit
in eden
wide root
In eden?
hollow orbit
yes
sinful gull
That big red one
lethal stump
Asgore🤝Pale King🤝Eden King
messing up their kingdoms
hushed steeple
The scary one
wide root
Yes it’s unstable and twitching
hushed steeple
It causes my screen to burn
wide root
Why it became unstable
lethal stump
we don’t know, why do you think ?
hushed steeple
A weapon? Kingdoms even if the ruler is a good dude all troops up over power no?
wide root
I think because... idk why i do think
sinful gull
Overload of power/abuse of power?
hushed steeple
My thought exactly
Maybe they were the one’s making sure the diamond was okay but when they left it broke?
wide root
A nuclear reactor exploding, i’ll say
hushed steeple
lack of maintinence
wide root
Or an error
wide root
Because it’s the land of wastes
hushed steeple
And don’t you think it’s funny that Eden is called Eden just like in the bible when it described as a beautiful place that humanity had to leave because of our abuse of power?
hushed steeple
I couldn’t think of a better way to phrase it sorry
sinful gull
No you phrased it well
wide root
Indeed u did do it well
wind bone
@hushed steeple don’t you think that’s intentional 👁👁
hushed steeple
I know...?
sinful gull
There’s a reason behind every name in the game so that has to be intentional
lethal stump
in the king mural we see him holding something food-like. it looks like it’s mimicking the humans eating the fruit of knowledge
wind bone
Oh when you said I think it’s funny I thought u really didn’t know sorry
hushed steeple
I’m sorry
I phrase things badly
My idea is that the elders were the ones tending to the power diamond under the watchful eye of the Eden king, then the Elders thought “hey, we’re not happy doing this plus the diamond looks fine” and just left to build their own place cuz the king was driving them nuts. Then the power diamond broke and all went to you know what
wide root
Mb missclick
hushed steeple
Or I’m completely wrong
I can’t read your words sorry my stupid brain has fried from over load
I’ll be back in a bit
Kk
Sorry I talk in large chunks
wide root
They’d survived if they left, and there would be living persons.... one of them being the one talkin at the beginning of the game
hushed steeple
Ok ok back now
wind bone
I think Eden was the ark, I know that the sky timeline is highly outdated but it makes sense to me
They were trying to run away and take a large source of power with them and it backfired
hushed steeple
@hushed steeple I do too my brain froze
Oof
Like all the arks in Wasteland look used and faded
wide root
They look broken
hushed steeple
Yes
Exploded
Mm
Blown up or something
I believe it does look like a nuclear fallout
wide root
But how could it killed everyone if it didn’t affected everywhere
hushed steeple
The wasteland sprits look like lost survivors
wide root
They look like they had war
hushed steeple
Warriors
wide root
In fact they had a war
wind bone
I believe that the corruption of wasteland and such happened before the eden event
low drum
So a guy on Reddit wanted to share this but he doesn't have discord, I'll leave it here
wind bone
Like slowly and surely the industrialization caused the ruin and that’s why they had to run to begin with
low drum
Sorry if I interrupted
tender dune
oh yeh i believe that too (that the things are holographic)
hushed steeple
Does anyone have the locations to all the cave paintings or light messages?
No sorry
tender dune
oh 1 min i took a pic of the drawings in isle
empty finch
@hushed steeple I believe I saw something like that some time ago on the wiki (Fandom). But I can be wrong
hushed steeple
Alright, i will check, i have a theory about eden, do you guys want to hear it?
Yessss
lethal stump
go ahead !
tender dune
empty finch
Btw what’s up with that boat with three light orbs there? I totally missed where it is from.
hushed steeple
Maybe it’s some of the power sources the elders were trying to steal?
tender dune
i think its the original light source
hushed steeple
Or parts of the firebird?
tender dune
before they created power diamonds
hushed steeple
Cuz the colored ones on Forgotten Ark look similar
empty finch
Yes
I returned to the game like a week ago and got confused seeing orbs from doing the Ark in the Isle 🤦🏻♂️
hushed steeple
Oh! I don’t know much about the firebird theory, but maybe the firebird bits and pieces were like fossil fuels for us before biofuel?
Can i ask are the spirit in game apart of a civilization prior to when the stars fallen, or are they actually the stars themself
Not apart , i meant a part
I don’t think they’re stars, but ancestors of the Elders or something
hollow river
Does anyone know what emote is the next traveling spirit
hushed steeple
No sorry
hollow river
Ahh it’s ok
lethal stump
that’s better for #questions-and-help or #seasons-events-chat
hushed steeple
Yee
But then i dont get why we need to return their spirit to complete their constellation
Hmm you!re right
tender dune
they're our ancestors according to the game
hushed steeple
Maybe They’re all broken bits of the Megabird?
Excuse my terrible typing
Like unless you believe in metaphoric interpretation, they must be connected to the stars in some aspect, right
Yee
What is the firebird theory?
I think it’s like their god and the Megabird exploded and all the winged light, fragments of light, etc are bits of it. It’s constellation is in Eden
tender dune
we all belong to megabirb
hushed steeple
Megabird, sorry I’m new
How do you know the constellation in eden?
Well I’ve seen pictures
In the chat
Are they still here?
I dunno I haven’t gone through eden in a while
I meant like the picture
Oh yeah I think so
Do you have a link?
Yee just got it
I think that’s it
Thanks, do you think the message displayed when entering the stormlock is related to the megabird "Return the lights to the falcon", i forgot the exact phrase correct me if i am wrong
The stormlock?
Yeah
tender dune
i think it was return the lights to the statues
hushed steeple
I am illiterate then
tender dune
xD
heady sinew
Nah, it's alright, in the hurry you can read anything, Fallen and falcon look similar
tender dune
pinned maybe
lethal stump
they’re in the pins
hushed steeple
Kk
Ok so I heard a theory that the belltowers were used to call creatures of light. If this is true are they used to bait creatures of light so they can get crushed into power sources?
lethal stump
perhaps 
hushed steeple
damn
lethal stump
gn !
hushed steeple
Also are the elders refugees or criminals or both? Did they take the power diamond cause they thought it belonged to them or were they stealing it knowingly?
lethal stump
your choice
hushed steeple
I feel like the vault and eden is not in the world of sky, by that i mean these places are trapped in an non spatial dimension, when you are in the vault, you can not return to the wasteland, but the inverse is possible. Two possibility are a) the eden elder sacrificed to create this field to try to contain the darkness, the field is weakening and thus he sent the wasteland elder a message, which we see the wasteland elder return in the cutscene. This explains the presence of darkness plants and creature in previous realms as the field continuous to deplete. b) the darkness entered through a gateway opened in eden, this is the flower pod device that pumps darkness we see in eden, the energy created by this device is so immense it warp space and time from the darkness dimension to sky, to prevent its spread, all the elders and their constellations united to contain the its influence, the vault is the message they left for us, which they sealed inside the darkness dimension
I will explain about how the gateway form
Formed
frail hearth
my brain is about to explode
hushed steeple
Are there any holes in this?
Ok so if the king was trying to keep the power diamond from blowing up and the Elders tried to steal it does that make the darkness the good guys?
What is the power diamond?
The big red thing in Eden
Oh i called that the flower pod
lethal stump
most people call it the Eden Diamond or power diamond
sturdy condor
Light in its purest form basically
hushed steeple
I thought it was darkness that are being fired, my theory is dead
hushed steeple
My theory is based on that the technology development in the civilization eventually lead them to discover something they shouldnt, a metaphorical forbidden fruit, this opened a portal to exterior dimensions, darkness came in and eden fell referencing paradise lost.
Pipes in eden, and those in wasteland followed by the gimbal in citadel, the light miners all points to some constructiib
Construction
"Light" means orbit?
frail hearth
yea
when you die, people usually say that you "go to see the light" so it kinda makes sense
hushed steeple
K
hushed steeple
Would anyone be willing to help gather all cave paintings and compile them in chronologic order in a image collections or something as an archive?
normal berry
I could try to contribute
mortal viper
I have a doc with that lambdaw
I will send the link again because I think it hasn’t been pinned yet
But first
Krill anatomy for you all
sinful anvil
so krills are kinda made of void?
mortal viper
pastel brookBOT
Using a vpn is not recommended or supported by TGC. Please don't recommend, discuss, or seek help with VPNs in this server
normal berry
"they have predators"
normal berry
also who said anything about a-
mortal viper
Did you guys received the link to my google doc?
normal berry
ye
mortal viper
Ok, bc skybot sent a message and I got confused
normal berry
yes i am too 
hushed steeple
Cool, can i contribute
mortal viper
Sure! Anyone with the link can add suggestions
"they have predators"
@normal berry whatever predators they might have, I do not want to meet them
hushed steeple
This is outrageous but i have a theory that krills were creatures of light that were consumed by darkness same as darkness plants and crabs.
mortal viper
Could be
We don’t know much about them aside for the fact that they are called Dark Dragons and they like to bonk us for our light
sinful anvil
sp theyre not krills bu dragons
spring blaze
hushed steeple
In one of the spirit memory on sanctuary island, there was a crab in one of the memory segments, very interesting. Unless i was looking at something else
sinful anvil
yeah they faced crabs. i dont like them. helped them get out and got only a patting tummy emote
cobalt palm
I haven't posted this in a while, but a darkness theory I was working on:
Theory on darkness vs light:
as far as I know darkness in Sky comes in 3 forms,
- dark plants
- dark crabs
- dark dragons (krill)
and that's roughly the order of their severity on the Sky childrenMy theory is that Darkness (like darkness in the real world) isn't a thing in its own right, it is a lack of something (such as darkness is a lack of light in our world, you can't have "positive" darkness as a thing, e.g. cold is a lack of heat), and the lack could be in sharing, from plants just being hoarders of light, crabs being attracted to (envious of the sharing) and krill actively seeking out to extinguish the light (hatred of the sharing).
This theory came as when you burn the dark plants, they give you light, so that made me wonder, is the darkness they show just a lack of sharing?
Children are Light because they have light and share it, but the dark plants do not share, they keep it to themselves.Crabs are attracted to the light and, if you are low enough can knock light out of you, and they certainly do not share, or even go after the light when it is knocked from you, they just keep coming after the sharer.
Krill seem to be an extension of the crabs, but far more active in their seeking it out, so while I liken the crabs to envy of sharing I am likening Krill to have gone a step further, thinking they cannot possess the light themselves, have gone on to turn that envy into hatred of the light itself, seeking to destroy it where ever it sees it (in the manta cutscene of Golden Wastelands for example).
So my thinking goes that these creatures are dark, purely because they do not share the light that they may possess.
obviously there are a few other things that extinguish the light such as rain and some water which do not fit with this theory, but the light in this instance could be an allegory for happiness, as even the most upbeat of people have rainy days or feel like their trudging through a mire.
Adding this to the interpretation appears to add a whole extra social level to the dark creatures,
the plants could be thought of a miser, unwilling to share their happiness and keeping it for themselves
the crabs could be thought of as those envious of others success
the krill want to seek out any happiness anyone else has and crush it, and make that person feel bad (and I have certainly seen these kind of people online, but thankfully not in the Sky community)
I really want to make a video on that, but haven't had the time to make it well enough yet
hushed steeple
Damn I don’t think the Krill would come for me!
But I really like you point!@cobalt palm
Very elaborate and deep theory, i have a question though if that is ok to ask
cobalt palm
it is one reading and allegory out of numerous I could theorise on, and is more of the metaphorical level theory than directly related to the "story" but then the story has many levels of interpretation in itself too
@hushed steeple please do!
hushed steeple
If you burn parts of a branches of a dark plant, they will regrow their lost branch after some time, what would be your interpretation on this?
cobalt palm
interesting, my first reaction, is you don't get the light out from the edge branches of the larger plants, it is the centre which "hoards" the light, so my first feeling is to say that the darkness has become established and these would be like the layers of defence.
Thinking on this metaphorically that works with the hoarding miser concept, they have hoarded the light for so long, they have built up their defences as to "why they deserve" it
hushed steeple
I was wondering because it would seem like the light somehow damages or affect them yet they will use that gained light to regrow their selves, hence hoarding.
cobalt palm
A second thought, especially with 2 in forest, that they are consuming something with larger light (the 2 that have trapped manta within them) in the broken bridge area
ooh, nice thought, I like that
like a weakened through kindness, but once that sharing stops (i.e. your candle goes out), they revert back to how they were
hushed steeple
What about the one in the graveyard, they seem to dislike light yet want more of it, portrayed by their lack of presence in areas exposed to natural lighting
cobalt palm
we know there are a lot of other pieces of evidence to darkness there, from the bones of creatures, crabs and krill
and in the final area, the fallen shields and weaponry
hushed steeple
Yep
cobalt palm
I'm not sure if it's about the light itself, rather how the light is used
sage isle
Dang, Mael. You really thought about it and even did lots effort in writing your posts
cobalt palm
we are sharing the light with our candle, where as they are dark as they absorb the light
@sage isle I love overanalysing
sage isle
Pfft. Sometimes overanalyzing gives us more theories or thoughts on the lore, it's not all bad @cobalt palm
cobalt palm
so like a white sheet of paper and black sheet of paper in the sun, the white sheet reflects the light and the black absorbs it and retains that as heat
hushed steeple
When the black sheet retains too much heat, they can not hold onto it and ignites
cobalt palm
yeah, I like that reading.
putting it to the metaphor, the miser cannot withstand so many people sharing their light and ends up either sharing or falling
hushed steeple
Why would the red crystals deplete all your light if touched
kind bobcat
The red crystals may be shards from the eden diamond, which is a big power diamond.
cobalt palm
I didn't really consider the crystals, but like I say, the rain in forest and swamps in wasteland could have interpretation
cobalt palm
yes, when the power diamond in Eden exploded causing the storm maybe the red shards came from that, especially seen in the area of no return, where the most red crystal rain is nearest the diamond
and with some interpretations of the story, the diamond represents the greed of the ancestor spirits
hushed steeple
By definition, the storm in eden carries red crystals continuously, so the diamond must be shrinking? Or that without light in the surrounding, the power diamond must deplete one day, but instead we were told to continue feeding it with light?
kind bobcat
Could be the ancestors, the elders or just the king himself.
And i don't think we were ever told to feed it with more light
kind bobcat
Eden was a holy site where the ancestors can die, go to orbit and maybe meet the megabird
hushed steeple
To*
kind bobcat
Our goal in eden is to free the lost souls
Or the statues in eden
We don't feed light directly to it.
cobalt palm
@hushed steeple I always related the shaft of light in Eden to a black hole consuming a star, that it is still feeding on the light from the world as it is too big, so doesn't shrink
kinda looks like the shaft of light we see coming from the mountain, which you can see as far back as Prairie, or Isle if you get high enough
@kind bobcat I always took Eden to being a means to an end, that the children of the light sacrifice themselves to "return the lost lights" namely spirits, rather than saving ourselves
hushed steeple
I have been interpreting eden as a sacred ground for repentance, for the sins our ancestors made, it is sort of like limbo, when we accept our responsibilities and sacrifice our light to light up and free other souls, we were forgiven. The last light can never be seen or reached but always shining in every scene, it can be interpreted as the guilt of ourselves or god.
frail hearth
oh wow
cobalt palm
it's a pretty dark interpretation, but we were created to serve a purpose, and that is to return the lost spirits.
Does whatever created us care that we lose ourselves in eden
hushed steeple
This interpretation drags in theology which is highly arguable and sophisticated, i have intensively study the bible myself, in fact i havent read it yet, most of my experiences are constructed from polytheism though.
cobalt palm
real "darkest timeline" interpretation is that we are merely pawns and it is the Elders and Ancestor Spirits that we serve to return, the life of the children of the light was only a means to shepherd them back to the light, what happens to us is meaningless, and we are effectively under a "higher power's control" in returning those lost spirits
hushed steeple
Havent intensively*
cobalt palm
yeah, i try to avoid theological interpretations, mostly because of my lack of knowledge therein, but I'll bet a medievalist could make some pretty wild allegories
hushed steeple
Well that just shuts down the whole floor, any means of free will can be interpreted as part of a greater game we are not aware of, the blub paradox it would seem
True, theology is truly complex
cobalt palm
the one thing I do know on the philosophy of "free will" in a theistic view is that in a "god sees all" interpretation, how could we have free will?
Imagine yourself as an editor of a film, you can see the reels of film (old projector style) and see everything that has ever or will ever happen on that film.
the actors still have free will as they did at the time of that film.
hushed steeple
Just by the blub paradox, you can generalize that there is no philosophical method which can prove whether free will exist or it is an illusion, we can not distinguish a k-level thinking mechanism because we can not know its consequences, an analogy would be a person why only lives in the set of real numbers would see no solutions to x^2=-1
Enough philosophy stuff, i tend to not go into metaphysical interpretation that much, but this time i got carried away
cobalt palm
and such is the "ineffable" and "unknowable" of the divine
no, it's certainly relevant 🙂
I don't like the concept of something being "unknowable" but I can certainly imagine it for ... "fantasy" seems the wrong word... scenarios
like the "unknowable horrors" Lovecraft used
or the "unknowable powers of the west" of Tolkiens works
hushed steeple
Yes, that problem is not we can not comprehend infinities
cobalt palm
no, but mathematically it is certainly fun to play with them
I always enjoyed the y=1/x, x->0, y->infinity
they you can play with infinity as though it were a variable
also, x=1i is such a beautiful thing, but when I learnt that, I wondered if there was another function, similar to square root, which we hadn't discovered which would cause other number lines
hushed steeple
We can build constructs on them and provide an abstraction but fundamentally our brains are not able to understand because it is not quantifiable
I might be wrong on it, just my own derivations
cobalt palm
as a programmer, I always find that humans prefer the unquantifiable and subjective over the quantifiable
though I agree, the concept of the infinite is something we can try to know, but will never truly get close to
ah I love a good Saturday night / Sunday morning deep discussion, thank you @hushed steeple
hushed steeple
I was going to go on a ramble again, but i dont think i am qualified enough yet, and yeah good talk, maybe we will continue it some other time, see you
cobalt palm
please, ramble on, I'll try to back read as much as I can when I'm next on
lethal stump
since when was this philosophy-discussion-spoilers
kind bobcat
This makes our headcanons look like crackpot theories
frail hearth
i'm sorry guys but i'm not gonna analyse the whole bible just to understand the sky lore
gray bridge
(i would recommend looking at other religions too)
cobalt palm
without the head canons, I wouldn't have been able to build on those
I'd recommend analysing Sky lore on what you know, and what your interpretations of it are, the story is vague for a reason, and like a good piece of art, it's often what everyone else brings to the interpreting rather than the artists "intentions".
My posts may not be totally correct, or totally wrong, they are my readings and interpretations of what I see, and what's great is we all have different experiences, so everyones interpretation will be different.
anyway, It's nearly 2am here, I'd better sneep
hushed steeple
it is like Limbo, we will never solve it, but we can try, good night Maelstorm
sinful anvil
weeeell time to look at sky lore based on hollow knight wee
mild lark
The current topic is... Repentance?????
sinful anvil
what if the story is not over after rebirth? what if some children are waking up to their old incarnations and megabird wants u to stop them? what if the eden is filled w these children as guardians, who have defeated the krills and taken their place, and instead of gifting light you have to … end them? (no not save them. end them. what if awakening to reincarnation is not reversible)
“Child, it’s time to know the truth. You are born of darkstone. The old reflection you can choose to obey, and others already have. And they are seeking to destroy our previous efforts. Do not let them...”
frail hearth
hk = sky i literally knew it since the first day
kind bobcat
Sky 2 : Electric Boogaloo
frail hearth
can't wait for sky to get released on the switch so it gets more attention
anyways lore
peak locust
Do these mean anything?
lethal stump
perhaps
mild lark
I think it just a repeating pattern if you look at it closely
kind bobcat
But the cracks are interesting
static spoke
and raw power is leaking out
mild lark
The crack is blue
peak locust
Do we ever get an explanation on what the floating red/orange things are that keep you from falling down?
delicate coral
They look like embers
mild lark
It was there to closely resemble dreams imo
delicate coral
Not sure why they make a forcefield to keep you floating though
mild lark
I don't want to fall
static spoke
It’s an elevator, and you are only meant to go up, maybe?
delicate coral
Oh yeah it could be because vault is a kind of dream-like experience
And I guess a typical kind of dream is a flying dream?
mild lark
Especially on sky
peak locust
Wouldn’t be much of a dream if it’s something you can do all the time
kind bobcat
It's a VR Experience, courtesy of Vault™ 
delicate coral
I’m pretty sure that a dev said in a livestream that vault was meant to be like a dream
Just the elevator part though
mild lark
But I think it involved a game mechanics a little bit.. because imagine you falling that deep
delicate coral
So potentially activating the elevator triggers the mechanism that enters our sky kids into the dream?
peak locust
Maybe the spirits made it because most of them couldn’t fly?
Or at least most of them didn’t have capes
static spoke
All the way to Eden!
sinful anvil
tmw u felt a tiny bit of adoration to the eden king
mild lark
When we dream our brain usually brings back our old memories from the past ... Reliving that memories. It was the same as vault. Where we were shown some memories of the spirit
static spoke
Be back in five minutes
peak locust
But we relive memories of spirits everywhere
delicate coral
Yeah but vault is also specifically a library for memories iirc
mild lark
I mean reliving the memory of the whole realms to you.. and vault is night time so yeah .. it like time to sleep and dream about the past
novel marten
Vault might be special somehow due to the magic elevator mechanic and also because it’s a library. It’s more than just one spirit’s memories, it’s a place where all kinds of knowledge is held
peak locust
All my dreams are in places I’ve never been
willow shoal
vault has many memory cubes, activate them and you will see the past memories of ancients
peak locust
Wait what
haughty dove
@willow shoal I have never seen these cubes and I have been playing since last year.
delicate coral
willow shoal
Yeah
delicate coral
These things stored all around vault
The first one is the closest to what’s in the current version of the game
haughty dove
Like, are they in the background? All the ones I see are lit.
kind bobcat
The cubes/lanterns are in the shelves
And are also floating around in the lower levels of vault
willow shoal
the memories has been removed
haughty dove
I’ll have to check it out. The ones on the shelves all look active.
willow shoal
now they only could be lit
kind bobcat
All the lanterns in the shelves are glowing but they aren't active
mild lark
Keep in mind that vault is very very old.. just like the elders
kind bobcat
The archives' walls were lined with memory lanters but they covered it so our phones dont ignite.
kind bobcat
Its a vase
lethal stump
it’s a beta thing
snow scarab
V a s e
lethal stump
it was part of some sort of quest
kind bobcat
Ayy bricky
snow scarab
Has anyone else noticed that the kingdoms seem to represent different times of the day? (or is that just really obvious)
mild lark
Yeah actually
lethal stump
yep, they were designed that way !
kind bobcat
The realms were named after times of day
snow scarab
Then we have the monstrosity we call || eden ||
willow shoal
dawn-day- -sunset-dusk-night
mild lark
Raining
willow shoal
dawn and day is referred to the childhood?
kind bobcat
Yes
willow shoal
and rain refers to puberty, sunset and dusk is adult/middle age?
snow scarab
Why puberty
lyric isle
I think Eden is maybe the wee hours of the morning
mild lark
And eden is economic crisis lol
snow scarab
I think Eden is maybe the wee hours of the morning
@lyric isle That's a nice suggestion, actually
Eden is- getting up at 3 in the morning for a glass of water.
lyric isle
It makes sense to me honestly to complete the day cycle
lethal stump
isle: birth
prairie: childhood
forest: teenage years
valley: young adulthood
wasteland: midlife crisis
vault: old age
eden: death
kind bobcat
Eden was supposed to be purely black and white
willow shoal
but orbit?
snow scarab
Oh my
willow shoal
to rebirth?
lyric isle
Reincarnation
snow scarab
Midlife Crisis
lyric isle
I feel Wasteland is more of reality of life hitting you in the face
snow scarab
In this case, reality is the giant shrimp thing
mild lark
Wow tgc is giving a hint to kid about how their future life will be
snow scarab
Dang my kid's paying taxes with eden candles
kind bobcat
The bad news bug
peak locust
Hi hello I’m back sorry it took so long my iPad was crashing or something so I reset it but here’s another example of vault being dreamlike
snow scarab
what if the beginning of vault is rest, while the further you get up is you descending into a dream
mild lark
Look like the place is somewhat broken
Maybe the one that attacked wasteland actually managed to get in the vault?
peak locust
Maybe a dream turning into a nightmare, because when you go into the hole there’s crabs
snow scarab
mild lark
Kinda make sense.. like why is there manta skeleton on the way up?
peak locust
Also the vault spirits were trying really hard to hide their info from so ething (the cube things in the broken platform)
snow scarab
mild lark
Knowledge is the most powerful weapon to ever exist
peak locust
*something
mild lark
So it must be a valuable information in there
lyric isle
I always thought Vault was an archive
peak locust
Maybe info on how to defeat krills, or the king
snow scarab
Kinda make sense.. like why is there manta skeleton on the way up?
@mild lark On the topic of skeletons: What in the actual heck is the skeleton in forest supposed to be-
peak locust
A whale
lyric isle
One of those ‘whales’
mild lark
Hmm I think that is a small whale
lyric isle
A baby perhaps
peak locust
Maybe a baby whale
snow scarab
Hmm, the skull just seems a bit different compared to the whale's head
mild lark
peak locust
Well if it’s a baby then it’s gonna be different than the adults
mild lark
Still big
snow scarab
Big beybey.
mild lark
Maybe it was one of these
snow scarab
Most likely.
mild lark
I like big things
snow scarab
big
lyric isle
Then if Vault is a dream/illusion, does Lamed bring you out of it?
mild lark
Where is this mantas skeleton when it was dead at vault..
peak locust
Wasteland and valley were the only patriotic kingdoms, valley for the elders and wasteland for the king
lyric isle
Is Lamed even real, in that case?
peak locust
Valley had statues of the twins but wasteland never had any for their elder, just the king
Wasteland feels more like they were forced to love the king, while valley feels more genuine
static spoke
Funny how time flies
lethal stump
k
king propaganda
kind bobcat
Long live the king
lethal stump
- yeets him off a cliff*
peak locust
Propaganda! That’s the word I was looking for
lethal stump
static spoke
I wanted someone to insert that meme
bronze meadow
...can krills blink?—
peak locust
Maybe valley just really liked building statues
Not that we see
Seems the king had propaganda in vault as well
hushed steeple
the king is dead
long live the king
lethal stump
he’s everywhere, from isle to eden
peak locust
He is?
peak locust
What about in orbit, HE cANt geT ME THERe
lethal stump
we are the king, silly
static spoke
try to hide from yourself
hushed steeple
weren’t the valley colosseums stated to be built in honor of a prince not a king
topaz girder
if the king is dead, isnt he technically in orbit, maybe in another place in orbit?
peak locust
Uh oh
normal berry
nah hes obliterated
static spoke
He may be us
normal berry
his original self is obliterated
normal berry
too far gone
static spoke
What?!!!
normal berry
topaz girder
king go brrr
peak locust
Maybe his body exploded and turned into this
static spoke
I’m a good Skid
normal berry
no thats megabird
lethal stump
thats megabird
static spoke
Megan
normal berry
Megan
kind bobcat
Megabirb isnt the king
The king is like
The embodiment of darkness
Evil
And idiocy
static spoke
Yep
static spoke
What if he killed us long ago and we are simply reliving our memories?
normal berry
More like the embodiment of the ego, not inherently dark and can achieve great things, but is easily corrupted
hushed steeple
oh that’s why the animals are alive when everything humanoid is dead
static spoke
Channel is dead 
trim grail
f
lethal stump
eden
kind bobcat
Crab pipe
static spoke
Did some say OOB?
hushed steeple
The entire beta chamber is there... Hidden
hushed steeple
Oob
dry coral
Anyone know the origin that why did the Mantas died and in the Vault, being Ghost Mantas?
gray bridge
it's possible that the scholars just made ghost mantas since the mural for vault shows that the scholars might have prayed/summoned ghost mantas into existence
golden cave
I think ghost mantas is manta memories
mortal viper
Well, the spirit who gives us their call is called memory wisperer. So, yeah, they are probably memory projections
gray bridge
yes
sturdy condor
Idk if this was discussed or obvious to you peeps cuz I just thought of this
In vault, we have to light lanterns and memory cubes right.
What if when we light the cubes, we take the memories of our time in those realms and put the missing information that the vault doesn’t have so it is complete, thus allowing the elevator to pass into the next area of vault, and slowly make our way to the top where the elders thank us and give us all the information to beat eden.
Plus the vault elder, which oversees vault, fills us in on the history of the vault and completes all the knowledge of every realm
short owl
This could just be how noses work, but the statues in the Valley OOB have faces that look like up pointing arrows
Maybe a "things are looking up" bit of imagery? Certainly isn't making me think of King Propoganda
sturdy condor
Oh gosh not more king propaganda
sinful anvil
skykids are made of darkstone and right in the middle but their moral alignment isn’t … that malicious?
i mean they’re like curious kids. they get amazed by wonderful images like mine did at the ark’s restoration: they keep looking everywhere as the green orbs flowers the earth, and even clap after completing the quests.
ik this doesnt mean they’re not capable of evil but they seem to like making beautiful things or fulfill wishes. mb its just positive reinforcement.
but damn seeing these cinnamon rolls being amazed melts my heart
short owl
Tbh... I don't think dark creatures are malicious by nature. I think they have problems with getting aggressive when upset or hungry, but we're not hungry so we aren't hangry
runic mason
Just my theory i
sturdy condor
I mean, everything that’s literally put into the game is technically confirmed so
short owl
This suggests the cannon is cannon
I want you to know I am 90% just using this as an excuse for a cannon joke
sweet dirge
@sweet dirge so you saying that tiny black dot on the king's head is the prince??
@mild lark it does look like a silhouette of the prince, and the shape resembles him
Ok so.. isn't this represents the king's head? So if the prince was that black dot.. this statue is representing the actual king size imo
@mild lark not exactly
tender dune
Did I miss anything interesting?
I used to think those are whale tails
Top they look like (mantas?)
Side they look like birds
hidden dagger
I always think of this but, how did the king get corrupted? 
hidden dagger
And that may be true, since he literally revived from that "grave"
proven sigil
what if the beginning of vault is rest, while the further you get up is you descending into a dream
@snow scarab
I wanted to highlight this for a moment, especially this. Before entering Eden after the Vault cutscene, you spawn in an area that looks like the Vault but all broken down and stuff. So I'd say it is a dream, in a way.
short owl
DArk rock take too much energy. Aleph be in pain bc not have much energy. Hunger and pain make Aleph crazy
Least by one theory
proven sigil
And as for the King getting corrupt, remember power and greed make people do stupid things
hidden dagger
I wanted to highlight this for a moment, especially this. Before entering Eden after the Vault cutscene, you spawn in an area that looks like the Vault but all broken down and stuff. So I'd say it is a dream, in a way.
Hm, true, since its like we are seeing how Vault used to be in the past, and when we wake up we see the reality of it
proven sigil
Yeah
hidden dagger
Imagine MatPat gets into the lore of sky
hidden dagger
Either 2 things:
Solves everything
Becomes crazy trying to solve everything
gray bridge
we're already the second option
hidden dagger
Mhm
proven sigil
The man has a far enough reach that the theory itself will break canon
But anyway
Still tryna piece together vault's lore
Guess that explains the really high platform we had to get the wing from
wide night
hhh say, I wanna get into lore but idk where to start, also I kinda don't wanna give up my sleep
lethal stump
sneep first !
wide night
but......... tempting
lethal stump
wide night
no I mean like if I get into lore my brain won't stop thinking
think think think
let's get back to the topic ...where to start?
short owl
Hmm... Good question. Something lured you here, what was it?
wide night
no idea I just was checking channels and I came here and saw this "megabird" in Eden or smth and I couldn't be more confused
Also what ???what king what is going on
short owl
Alright. Starting with the megabird then.
short owl
The Megabird, named Megan after a typo... Wait awww
short owl
Ok but like
wide night
that's a cute touch
short owl
Megabird kinda is the beginning?
short owl
And the end
wide night
I thought stars were falling from the sky is the beginning
as in the murals(?) carvings on isle's first cave
short owl
In concept, Megabird was the source of light.
wide night
so like...no sun?
short owl
In the end credits, it's heavily implied that Megabird is made up of the stars - an entity made up of a collective
The sun... Tbh I don't think I have seen that discussed ot addressed
wide night
when people say stars they mean the children that give wl right?
I mean there isny a sun in sky lol
orchid crypt
that's the old name for them, i believe, yeah
wide night
okok
orchid crypt
i've met some foreign players who also refer to it as "collecting star light"
short owl
Ah. Welll that... Sometimes. The Elders are the six fallen stars from the mural
orchid crypt
oh wait right, lore channel, i thought this was Q&H -- yeah, the elders are referred to as fallen stars as well
short owl
And the winged lights are also apparently "Imprints of the child of light" which makes things more complicated
wide night
so the children and the elders are both fallen stars?
short owl
Does anyone have the elder lineup picture on them?
short owl
The one that shows all elders and the prince?
short owl
The prince is a HIGHLY debated topic. We know there was one in the concept. We think he became the king. Brick thinks the king is a mech suit, I think his face (which appears to be darkstone and similar to a mask in concept) grew to consume him
wide night
so like is the prince a child too or
lethal stump
this ?
short owl
There is also theory that he is the child of light, since winged lights are officially "imprints of the child of light"
wide night
one of the orders that fell or??
short owl
The prince is moth size btw
lethal stump
wide night
oh the dark mask thing makes sense
considering the size
of the prince at the beginning
but how is he related to the elders
lethal stump
lore is for you to decide
short owl
He may have been an elder
short owl
No, just... Where we get to from Prince and Megabird
Talk about timeloops and unreliable narrator and things get wild
wide night
so like
where do we come from
if I can know the answer to that maybe we'll know where the prince was from
lethal stump
we don’t exactly know where skykids are from, however we assume megabird sent us
short owl
Well... The origin is a bit tough, but we know we are reborn by yeeting (either our body or just light) at a cape shaped magic circle thingy from waaaaaaaay up high
short owl
No pics, rebirth cutscene
wide night
oh wait when sky begins there is a kingdom in the sky or smth like that
heady sinew
short owl
@heady sinew lore moth too soon for that yet
heady sinew
True true
short owl
There's a trillogy tho
heady sinew
@wide night also your pfp love it btw
wide night
oh whay
heady sinew
is there more context to the pic than the fact that king bad
@wide night it's a sort of inside joke, I forgot the full context, so I'll let someone else explain
wide night
oh yeah how is king and gw related
short owl
Also I think some carvings elsewhere?
short owl
We think he was 1. Trying to hold tight control over the place before the war, and 2. Had a war there
Also the wasteland is right on Eden's doorstep
wide night
where's vault then
short owl
So that's likely a thing
Vault is... Closer but also smaller and less of a major target
wide night
I wish there was like a photo of the maps aligned, like I know it all slowly goes up no?
sweet dirge
You could say vault is the door
wide night
door to Eden you mean?
short owl
Also it may be an elevator up to Eden
sweet dirge
Yes
wide night
wait Eden was like the kingdom in the sky that the first cutscenes talks about
mild lark
What is the current topic?
wide night
like when you first open sky
kind bobcat
Good afternoon
sweet dirge
The kingdom is all the realms
short owl
Introducing the void to lore Smiley
wide night
yeah but
sweet dirge
@kind bobcat good afternoon 
wide night
oh god so many people typing
sweet dirge
They still live in the clouds right?
short owl
The clouds seem to describe the land of Sky quite well
wide night
I meant
main place/castle whatever
all other realms
kind bobcat
is there more context to the pic than the fact that king bad
@wide night The king has propaganda of him almost everywhere, if you squint hard enough there's even references to the king in Isle.
heady sinew
Vault is designed to be a sort of "dreamy-ascent"
I managed to capture the part in which the walls start to crumble once you keep going up after the second/third floor (Prairie Floor) (I turned the brightness up so that it was more visible)
short owl
Eden does show signs of having been a castle, yes
sweet dirge
SO GLOWY
wide night
Wait let me
main place
☁️☁️☁️☁️☁️☁️☁️
☁️☁️☁️☁️
☁️☁️
isle
kind bobcat
Yes isle is sort of a gateway to the Sky kingdom
heady sinew
I HAD TO 😭😭 otherwise the blocks wouldn't be visible and it would be hard for ya'll to see
wide night
what I am saying is
Eden is where the king is used to stay?
or like
do you know what I mean
short owl
We think so
wide night
like the big deal is up there
mild lark
Is that a ship at the bottom left ?
wide night
That's why it's the most damaged
sweet dirge
Looks like
short owl
We suspect Prince/king was the Eden Elder
sweet dirge
That's why it's the most damaged
@wide night the power diamond happened there
mild lark
The ship look huge
wide night
but...he's not an ender
short owl
However have confirmation that the king is important to the story, but "not around to be saved"
wide night
he doesn't look like one
atleast
maybe he tried to be kne
one
However have confirmation that the king is important to the story, but "not around to be saved"
@short owl
wym
mild lark
The king was the same as other elders that you have encountered but not in a way that you expect...
sweet dirge
He's part of the story
heady sinew
The king was confirmed canon but he's not in the story the same way the Elders do (with cutscenes and such)
sweet dirge
But cannot be seen in person in-game
short owl
"Not around to be saved" is the wording we got.
heady sinew
So we're still trying to figure it out
kind bobcat
That's the terribly simplified version
No
The elders arent dead
They're not alive either
short owl
He may be the light child
mild lark
The king is like dead dead you know what I mean
kind bobcat
They're stuck in a limbo state outside of time and space.
wide night
lmaoo
short owl
The one who waits for us in pitty star and after eden
short owl
And the one who's imprints are everywhere
wide night
It's the prince kmg
short owl
That's one theory
heady sinew
I do have a theory about the King!! Does anybody need me to send a screenshot of it
sweet dirge
The one who waits for us in pitty star and after eden
@short owl pitty star?
short owl
@sweet dirge when you die outside Eden
kind bobcat
And the kid that waits for us after you die in eden
sweet dirge
Oh, I haven't 
heady sinew
Is the pity star the same as the kid in eden???
mild lark
That almost like indifferent (us) hugging connected
heady sinew
I never died out of Eden oop
short owl
Yeah... Most people only get there on purpose
sweet dirge
How does it feel?
heady sinew
no cape glitch lol
kind bobcat
i went capeless a few days ago
wide night
wait pity star
kind bobcat
Its basically just a dark room in Homespace with a winged light
kind bobcat
You can only get in the dark room by dying outside of eden
sweet dirge
Outside of eden
wide night
several people are typing
short owl
No, not when you finish, when you fail
sweet dirge
fail
heady sinew
Pity Star = You get it when you die on accident somewhere that is not Eden
Glowy Ending Child = Found after you die in Eden
wide night
fail oh
sturdy condor
Then you warp to someone in home iirc
wide night
is there video footage of that
mild lark
You have to work hard to actually die outside eden
sturdy condor
Cuz fail room is technically in home
wide night
lol noticed
short owl
Warping is only for capeless glitch!
kind bobcat
Most capeless tutorials have footage of the pity star room
sturdy condor
Yeah, it’s the most common and easier way
kind bobcat
Anyways, I found this in the tomcepts
sweet dirge
There's always the pins for lore
kind bobcat
Its a mountain with megabirb inscriptions
wide night
is this wasteland from above?
kind bobcat
No
sweet dirge
Anyways, I found this in the tomcepts
@kind bobcat Eden mountain?
kind bobcat
That's concept art
wide night
oops
kind bobcat
No idea what it is
wide night
yeah hut
mild lark
Never got into the game
wide night
where
kind bobcat
Still interesting
short owl
Concept art is treated as valid reference but outdated and inaccurate material
sweet dirge
Since Eden was a place of worship, having megabirb inscriptions make sense