lore-discussion-spoilers

[upbeat notch]

Is this something specific to eden mayhaps?

[waxen ermine]

I mean when friends go home, not yourself

Nope, seen it in any world

[dire night]

Ive never seen it before. Maybe its new.

[waxen ermine]

If you want, I could send you my friend codes (in DMs) and I’ll show it in game (I’m ready now)

[upbeat notch]

Sure you can send friend codes but Ill likely am only going to be able to play in a few hours again

[waxen ermine]

Okay, I’ll send to you

Also only just now realized it’s maybe because of the new update

Ah wait if you can’t play right now, then we won’t be able to meet (have to sleep)

Alright, I’ll see if I can get lucky and take a screenshot tomorrow if I hang out and a friend decides to go home

[upbeat notch]

I mean if we are friends we can just do that any time right?

[waxen ermine]

Yes, but it requires you to be with a friend in a world, and you see the friend click the go home thing

Which requires us both to be online

Since I can’t demonstrate it for now, I’ll draw it

[upbeat notch]

I mean you dont have to we can just do this friend Code thing tomorrow

[waxen ermine]

Stream, not steam, oops XD

[dire night]

I just tested it with one of my friends and i see now. I think thats just the blue light glitch. Alot of places has weirdly placed blue lights.

[waxen ermine]

Ohh I see
I thought it was a feature 😅
Thanks for the clarification, I’m gonna sleep now, see ya

[cobalt palm]

Haha I can imagine skykids steaming away
Like the old meditation quests

[upbeat notch]

Ima go too

[cobalt palm]

old pics of skykids doing glitched meditation quests "steaming away"

[spiral vault]

If the geography of the show is perfectly accurate to the game, then this would be near the entrance to the main cave. It looks like there's children casually strolling out (maybe class is dismissed?) but then the teacher stops the boy for some important reason

[waxen ermine]

Oh yeah! It does look like that

I wonder if ancestors honked in the past to get each others attention (they can honk in the game, grandma does it a lot, some spirits teach honks)
It’s really funny to imagine a tense situation with krills and they’re all honking rapidly

[graceful parrot]

LET ME FINISH THE SEASON QUEST. 👹👹 what a cliffhanger. That's so 😭💔💔💔 I just pray that they listen cuz the materials where in the right direction but then nothing happened soooo.

[spiral vault]

I think they honk, but in a different sound than us

Maybe far down the line, we'll get 'ancestor honks' for each realm that are like dialects of a language

[waxen ermine]

They can already, you should test holding hands with one, and do a deep call, they will make their own sound (it happened when I was holding hands with the nesting guide and trying to knock down crabs)

It sounds a lot like the neutral honk sound? If I remember right

And accents do canonically exist, for some reason the wounded warrior’s trivia includes that he has a habit of picking up regional accents

[waxen ermine]

Found that since Season of Flight, each spirit is given canonical personalities and info

I’ll post the ones that I find relevant to lore

Flight Guide: Former apprentice of prairie elder
Lively Navigator: Used to be a sailor
Light Whisperer: Some light creatures will hang around the same area they’ve been healed or nurtured
Tinkering Chimesmith: Works well with Talented Builder. Light creatures respond to specific sounds
Talented Builder: Comes from a long line of skilled shipwrights

Abyss Guide: Is a deckhand. More stars can be seen at sea, and there are nautical terms that they get mixed up
Anxious angler: Sea shanties and logic puzzles exist in this world
Ceasing Commodore: Puns exist in this world. Is the Captain
Cackling cannonneer: Has a favorite song learned from Anxious angler, can get seasick

Performance guide: Twin of a past season guide (likely rhythm guide). Knows 50 tongue twisters, they got reviewed for a past show, and they’re writing a comedy
Frantic Stagehand: Has anxiety dreams. Knows riddles and shares them with Storyteller
Forgetful Storyteller: Imitates accents
Mellow Musician: His electric guitar can imitate a manta
Modest Dancer: Snowmen exist, and there’s a dance move called the manta leap

Bereft Veteran: Thinks of riddles
Pleading Child: Wants to be a manta rider. Knows rules for 30 games, collects trivia on animals
Tiptoeing Tea brewer: Learned from their parents which plants to find in each area of the kingdom. Took care of injured animals as a child
Wounded warrior: Picks up regional accents

[waxen ermine]

Passage guide: Feeds dark crabs during holidays. Likes to teach mask making. Uses puns
Oddball outcast: Dips toe in streams for luck
Tumbling Troublemaker: Practices magic tricks
Melancholy Mope: Reacts epically when forced to eat food they don’t like. Once walked home for 2 hours after having a disagreement on rules of a game. Writes mountains of poetry
Overactive achiever: Spends weeks redrawing pictures. Takes over group projects. Has a favorite book

[ornate compass]

Out of curiosity what do you think is the relationship between the nesting guide and the forest elder?

[waxen ermine]

Teacher and apprentice

[north ore]

Skykids are actual children, correct? It seems to me like age is height dependant (since there’s an “adult” spell which just makes you taller) but for permanent heights, they can only get to teens at most? Since “max height” is still shorter than the adult spell

[north bronze]

definitely Mentor/Apprentice
though one is a shaman/blacksmith and the other is a carpenter. i'm not sure how similar those trades are, but they could also just have been very good friends due to similar interests.
perhaps some kind of familial bond (highest doubt), but the most likely relationship for them in my head is Mentor & Apprentice

[ornate compass]

I mean. It kinda makes sense

though I’m pretty sure you can’t smelt wood or hammer nails into steel

[north bronze]

lol right? that's why i had to mention that blacksmithing and carpentry aren't the most similar lol. but they're kind of under the same umbrella of uhmm...creation? but just similar enough to be able to bond over the interests

or, given the most recent quest in Season of Nesting (potential spoilers):

||Nesting Guide asks you to retrieve wood & planks for them, from the end of the Forest (the area after Shaman Elder's temple)||, so perhaps Shaman Elder was Nesting Guide's supplier for materials? Nesting Guide does have metal in their creations too

[spiral vault]

yes, the 'adult' and 'toddler' spells are just referring to the size only.

[lucid bridge]

I like to think that these are different accents

Which means that there’s 3 different accents for the Daylight Prairie alone. Maybe it’s like a England sort of deal where each town has its own accent.

2 accents for the Forest; 1 accent for Valley, Wasteland, and Vault, each. Perhaps the child call is like the standard for the language, or no accent. This is all headcanon.

Alternatively, the child voice could be the Isle accent.

[north bronze]

the photograph is the first thing we look at during the quest, it's the very thing that tells us where to go for the quest

im sure the photograph is the thing that prompted Cheese Sticks to ask the initial question

[celest birch]

Now I wish to know wh took that picture.

[upbeat notch]

Ya tho Nesting guide seems to be a child in the picture? Or are the elders just THAT big?

[tacit sentinel]

I made a huge discovery!

Sky,journey,flow,flower,adzu,the path less, take place on the same planet!

[celest birch]

How so?

[tacit sentinel]

One in abzu we could see the mountain from Journey two we could find the yellow flower and the flow creature in journey we can find the mountain from journey in sky and we can find the diver from Abzu in the pathless

[upbeat notch]

I had the headcanon of a connection between Sky and Journey for while now so thx for the proof ^^

[north bronze]

the elders are very tall

[upbeat notch]

I see

They do look like friends in that picture tho. I mean the whole atmosphere of the Picture is not one that you would see in a picture of business partners

[cold sparrow]

that's called easter eggs
abzu and pathless are not made by TGC, but by a different studio creatrd by the art director of journey

also the twin mountain of journey and the Eden mountain of sky are different
similar imagery, but distinctly different

[north bronze]

as far as I know, its confirmed that they do not take place on the sane planet, nor is Journey based on the lands below the Sky Kingdom

[abstract finch]

omg i love this!! it’s interesting to think about how each realm differs socially :D

[upbeat notch]

My headcanon is that these accents happend because the people tried to communicate with the light creatures that exist there, sorta making both languages mix together into these accents ^^"

[north bronze]

this makes me wonder if & how they will integrate honking in the Two Embers animation project. i wonder if our ancestor race communicated through these sounds too, instead of just using them to communicate with animals. we already know it will be a no-dialogue piece of media, so its very interesting to think on how they plan on integrating communication between the characters

[upbeat notch]

Weird thing is we heard the Kids laugh in the trailer so even if nobody talks they will do human sounds as it seems

[north bronze]

oh true! makes me think it will just be human sound effects such as that, or like when we could hear "people chattering" SFX during the firework festival(s)

[upbeat notch]

True true

[north niche]

I just noticed this elders mousepad on the sky shop and can't figure three of them. valley seems to be missing, and is that hopeful steward?

[north bronze]

by the looks of it, they all seem to be regular spirits, well, the 2nd looks like Shaman/Forest, the 4th looks like Wasteland (without his faceguard), 5th looks like Vault, but the rest (to me) look like regular spirits

as for the Steward, possibly, but again, to me, they all just look like concepts for* regular spirits

*then again, on thatskyshop, it labels it as "mouspad - Elders" so hmmm...

i'll take a guess from Left to Right:

Prairie, Shaman, Valley (brother), Wasteland, Vault, Isle, (???), Valley (sister)

[north niche]

ah, hmm. suppose it could just be a marketing dept thing that it's labeled as "elders" https://thatskyshop.com/products/sky-mouse-pad-elders

[north bronze]

yah maybe, but there are also lots of old concepts of the Elders before they look now, and they do change their look quite a lot

either way, always appreciate the art lol

[north niche]

figured it looked like Prairie-Forest-?-Wasteland-Vault-Isle-?-?

[north bronze]

yeeaahh that bald one is really throwing me off too

[north niche]

especially given it was added to the store with the PC release, I figured it might be new stuff, too

ah well, I'll file it away as "probably just a mix of spirits and elders, named for marketing"

[north bronze]

yes 😂 probably best that way

[upbeat notch]

Now we gotta look at Shop stuff for lore lol

[north bronze]

Darkstone Era
10. A Storm filled with darkness was created from the explosion and corruption spread through the Kingdom. The Ancestors' Dark Stones curse the King's crown, trapping him in the storm.

Post-Storm Era

1. The Creatures caught in the center of the Storm became corrupt and unrecognizable. They now wander the land as lost malignant beings.
2. Decades past before the Creatures begin to migrate to the Bird of Light again, but the world is destroyed and treacherous.
3. In dismay, the Bird of Light blesses the sky Kingdom with a new Descendant race in the hope that we will reconnect all souls.

we were created by the Megabird/Bird of Light/God, in the hopes that we could fix the land that our Ancestors & the prince/king ruined with darkness & technology.

also, that isn't the prince that we hug after death, it's the other half of our own sky kid, like a yin/yang coming together to form our full skykid to ascend

[livid scarab]

What the heck is the lore behind that shard memory with the giant red crystal and the elders being yeeted

also will someone give me a short rundown of how everything ended up the way it did, why eden is the way it is and how the darkness messed everything up
im too lazy to backread

[north bronze]

source: Tom Zhao, concept art/storyboard for the lore

there have very obviously been some tweaks since the game released and this storyboard was made; for example, instead of an ark, it's a giant shattered darkstone (eden crystal)

[graceful parrot]

Petition for the guide to be non binary cuz no one can tell if they're a guy or girl.

[north bronze]

they are non binary. the game addresses the Guide as a "they" consistently

[graceful parrot]

THANK GOD 😭 and ty

[north bronze]

:P i always viewed Nesting Guide as more feminine, but to me they definitely look non-binary too

[graceful parrot]

Same I did too but then I saw some people think they're male I'm like whoa whoa whoa

[elder schooner]

Not to be that guy, but tgc never said the spirits are nb. The spirits are genderless as they have no established gender and can be percieved as whatever

[north bronze]

exact same with Shaman Elder, and Valley Elder(Sister)

[north bronze]

if you read the in-game dialogue, you will see which spirits are referred to as "they". skykids are genderless.

[elder schooner]

That's what I mean, they are not given any gender (binary or not)

[graceful parrot]

Same as marina and pearl. Nintendo doesn't tell us they're dating but deep down we all know they're lesbian lovers

[north bronze]

as for TGC stating which spirits are gendered, there are game files indicating such things, like "forest aunt" or "valley brother", "valley sister" etc

not outright stating, but it is in there. i prefer to respect the "they/them" thing though

[elder schooner]

I gender a few of the characters, but thats just me

[north bronze]

unrelated to the current conversation, but since i've been posting here today, i thought i'd share a very loose theoretical thought i had lastweek: the woman (or person, whoops.) in this trailer is the Ushering Stargazer from Isle of Dawn

i will edit this message with my explanation soon, however i have to run out for some errands

*1. for starters, i think the fact that they share the same hair makes it fairly obvious
2. Ushering Stargazer's memory is them happening upon a golden child fallen from the Sky, supposedly confirmed to be Prince (Alef)
3. Aurora's first Seasonal Quest, Runaway, also showcases the antics of Ushering Stargazer & the child. there is a moment in the Runaway memory where Ushering Stargazer falls from a ledge, and the child looks worried. this gives me similar feelings to the scene featured in the image i shared
4. in conclusion, Ushering Stargazer is the prince's caretaker, and therefore so is the lady-like figure in the trailer.

and that's it!

[spiral vault]

It's too stylized to be a photograph. I think it's a painting made by one of them

[spiral vault]

It's probably more granular than that. The calls imitate creatures, so the accents could take place wherever the creature is most prominent

Bird call is the "common" tongue, found almost everywhere

Whale call is in Forest and Wasteland

Manta call is in Valley, maybe the language of the upper class

Cosmic call is Vault, spoken in religious/scholarly settings

Crab call is Wasteland, like a lower class ruffian style

Jellyfish call is Sanctuary Islands and Forest

Baby Manta call is in Wind Paths, a combination of other calls for the interconnected place

Finally, Nightbird call is the rarest, maybe only recently learned by Nightbird Whisperer

[spiral vault]

And all other guides and spirits as wel;l

[spiral vault]

I haven't seen anything like this. The closest may be direct quotes from Aurora/TLP or Office shenanignas

[spiral vault]

This may be true, which could mean that this child is a skykid

[north bronze]

the prince is an early iteration of a skykid

like a skykid 1.0, and we're a skykid ver 1.1

[north bronze]

it's in the game files
-if this has changed, it used to be in the game files.

@spiral vault would you like to tell me what DM stands for/why you reacted with them?

and now the speech bubble? please use words

[spiral vault]

Sorry, can you direct message me?

[north bronze]

ahh, no. no offense, it's not personal. i don't add people i don't know.

[pale kestrel]

Hot take: The sky version of the little prince is actually a regular human who somehow ended up in the sky universe, where he learned how strange spirits are and met sky kids. The skykids told him about what happens when they go to Eden so he thinks that going to eden will take him home.

But he's not a skykid and dies in stormlock

[narrow marsh]

THE SUN ISN'T REAL

[static zephyr]

NOOOOOOO

[upbeat notch]

Hey so if I dont know someones gender should I just say they/them? But thats also kinda assuming their gender by calling them non-binary so idk what Im supposed to do 😭

[cold sparrow]

it is generally a neutral pronoun, adopted by a lot of nb folks as their primary pronoun, but also used when the gender is not known
no need to overthink it

[north bronze]

that is up to you, i'm just a stranger on a discord server

[upbeat notch]

Ig I just stick to they/them then...

[north bronze]

probs the safest option

i wouldn't say that referring someone as a "they/them" by default is necessarily assuming them to be non-binary.

*but i'm here for lore

[upbeat notch]

Also here for lore lol but yk dont wanna be offensive ^^"

[north bronze]

yee

[upbeat notch]

Whats the differents between Megabird and the ancient lights?

[cold sparrow]

the ancient lights?

[north bronze]

the only thing i can think of is in the conceptual storyboards
(#lore-discussion-spoilers message)
where the Elders are sometimes referred to as "Ancients" and sometimes "Ancestors", but obviously since it's conceptual, names have changed

[cold sparrow]

megabird is the concept art name for what ingame is now only The Light (orbit)

[upbeat notch]

True but Im wondering what the ancient lights from season of shattering are

[north bronze]

oh nevermind what I was typing hahahah, i was completely off

[upbeat notch]

Lol whatcha wannet to write

[north bronze]

oh god, nothing trust me lol
i was poorly attempting to articulate the differences between the realm elders and megabird 😭😂

lol, one is god and the other 6 are really old "humans"

i don't know anything about ancient lights, or much about season of shattering

[upbeat notch]

Ancient light (left) and Ancient darkness (right) (Source: https://sky-children-of-the-light.fandom.com/wiki/Season_of_Shattering)

They are basically formless spirits and just balls of Orange light (Ancient light) and Blue light (ancient darkness)

[north bronze]

ooooh right gotcha ok, well i couldn't tell you anything about season of shattering outside of guessing or theorizing

but in terms of them being different from megabird, well..the Ancient Lights seem to be simply just ancient creatures...manta, jellyfish, whales, etc..just ancient
the term "lights" could be just because they're creatures and represent light/flame, but that's me going off of concept art again

but yeah idk, my guess is that they're just regular creatures from a long time ago trapped in the void

[north bronze]

i'm just guessing and assuming but these images might give a better explanation than what i'm trying to ramble on about

Source: Tom Zhao's portfolio
https://www.tomzhao.com/sky-all

[upbeat notch]

Lol I know what you mean dont worry

[cold sparrow]

memory fragments, caught and then expelled by the eden diamond, I assume

[north bronze]

i like that

trapped memory fragments of light creatures and dark creatures, very cool

[upbeat notch]

Hmmm idk I guess the stone creatures they are in could be from a memory but Im not sure if the ancient lights and darknesses are also just memories since we can interact with them

[cold sparrow]

technically, all the spirits we meet are some shape of memories

[upbeat notch]

True ig but they are also people

[north bronze]

might i add that we regularly interact with most of their final or favourite memories 😛

[upbeat notch]

What if the ancient light and darkness are for the creature what the ancestors are for us sky kids?

[north bronze]

anything i say in regards to that is purely speculation but, as usual, i'm referring to the concept art, there are Elder Creatures (which appear to just be whales), and that might be the closest thing?

[upbeat notch]

These? (Sauce source:https://www.tomzhao.com/sky1)

[north bronze]

yes

there is a bunch of speculative lore out there that suggests the Light Creatures went to war with the Ancestors (not all of the Ancestors, apparently it was a whole thing), so that implies to me that the creatures are clearly intelligent and have some form of leadership or structure

[upbeat notch]

Ok so I assume that creatures of light and darkness (not ancestors) died by the crystal which is why they ended up in the void and not with Megabird

[north bronze]

to my knowledge, yep

natural death = ascend to bird of light and be reborn
unnatural death = leaves bones, does not ascend
death by shattering diamond = trapped in shattered memories

again, assumption/speculation

[waxen ermine]

Ooh, that has a lot of conviction behind it! And it makes sense, but where did you find out about it?

Ahh it was the image

But the concept artwork from Tom Zhao says the prince saves the player from being trapped in the king, and stays behind

If we are using the concept art logic, it is the prince who saves us

Where did the yin yang idea come from?

[waxen ermine]

Someone else figured it out and it’s pretty much got so much proof backing it up

Ushering stargazer had a friend who had a boat mask, we also see him in that memory and in the trailer

And in the prophecy cave, you see a mural of two people waving goodbye to the prince as he enters, one of them with the boat mask

[north bronze]

could you show me where this is said?

[spiral vault]

Allow me to shatter your mind.

[waxen ermine]

In two different images, hold on while I look for them, it’s in Tom zhaos site somewhere XD

[north bronze]

oh wow interesting, would you mind sharing the link? it's something i thought up on my walk to the store last week thinking i was coming on to something 😂

[spiral vault]

Here's what I've written about it #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[waxen ermine]

https://www.tomzhao.com/sky1

My phone refuses to copy paste the images, here you go

[north bronze]

are you referring to the conceptual storyboard?
#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[waxen ermine]

I can’t find it but I know it was written somewhere

[north bronze]

mmm i can't seem to find anything about the Prince consciously choosing to save the player character and staying behind in the storm...the only information i've seen* regarding the Prince interacting with the player have been in fan theories and YouTube comments

[waxen ermine]

Found it

One is text, the other is visual depiction

[north bronze]

wow very nice! i stand corrected

[waxen ermine]

Misremembered though, it was “Prince goes on ahead”, not stays behind

[north bronze]

oh yeah i see that. must have been one of the many little tweaks they made to the lore...in this case, i retract my "i stand corrected" and i stand by my original thought that the Prince does not ever interact with the player.

i wonder where he goes

[waxen ermine]

Also, sorry for the pessimistic take, but does anyone think that in the future, the world of sky will be a doomed dystopia?

The shattering shard rains only happened recently, and it gets worse now that they drop monsters into peaceful areas (prairie peaks)

The spirits sure as heck don’t do anything about them, and the sky kids can’t defeat the monsters

They can only sit back and watch as it rains more everywhere, with more and more monsters appearing in every land, and it gets harder to clear shards with more of these monsters stopping them

They can’t do anything about it the Eden diamond either, freeing all these souls does nothing, in fact interaction with Eden may have made things worse because the raining eruptions are only a recent thing (the first cutscene of the shattering shows modern sky children minding their own business when it starts)

[narrow marsh]

It'll only get better
Time can only heal

[versed mirage]

I think it's more a recovering doomed world. The big event of the world already happened and nothing can undo it, that much is known.

Not sure if the monsters already placed into the environment or corrupted immediately into becoming that, given crabs after a shard rain just burrow immediately away.

There has been one instance where we could actually fight back against the monsters, granted it required assistance from an outside party to achieve it, not the mention the ascending sequence is you are basically invincible.

Also even if the challenges do get harder, I don't think Skykids are stagnant as beings, they probably can adapt overtime to learn to fight it better.

The souls.... not too sure about that one. They still are sorta difficult to explain away since they just sorta... do whatever they want.

[waxen ermine]

Also found out Days of Nature confirms trash can corrupt creatures

The spirit wonders who left the used fishing gear in the middle of the ocean? Left unattended, darkness will spread and corrupt the creatures of light in the ocean.

So… if not death, then pollution in general turns them into dark creatures

And maybe darkness itself because in Sanctuary, the cave crabs are dark but the crabs outside in the sun are not, emphasized by a dev

[dire night]

You can call the spirits whatever you feel most comfortable with. Its up to your own interpretation, so theres no right or wrong awnsers 🙂

[dire night]

I do think that the Anciet Light is the canon name for the Megabird. The fun part of it is that it also confirms the existence of a similar god like entity that rules over all darkness.

[waxen ermine]

I have a thought, so TGC is trying to figure out how to depict the ancient light and darkness as travelling spirits (they do plan to bring them back)

I’m thinking, why not depict as an ancestor wearing the clothes? It happened with the spirit manta call, there is no ancestor there, but it’s represented by a dude wearing a white cape who can do the manta call

[dire night]

I do still believe the ancient light could be explained by being the in game name for the megabird. This is just my theory tho so dont take it as gospel. I just think it makes the most sense.

[dire night]

Its already a doomed dystopia. Everything is in ruins and the only living things still there are a few creatures and a few skykids.

[dire night]

That would be cool but i think they are just gonna represent it as the same glowing orb. Im happy with that cause it differentiates the Ancient light from the humans.

[spiral vault]

I think the opposite, the sky world will eventually become a peaceful utopia

All the skykids are immortal and can easily dispatch the shards, and they can work together to at least stave off the dark creatures

However, in the lore, it's post apocalyptic

[upbeat notch]

Tbh I didnt notice that our situation with the Darkness gets worse

I mean ya the Eden crystal gets more and more unstable but Im pretty sure the only thing that could happend is a second explosion, like the one that wiped out our ancestors

Of cause there could be Fallout of darkness if the Crystal were not to pull itself together like it did after the first explosion, tho Im pretty sure that even if all of the realms get covert in darkness there is still the Vault that also went through the last explosion uncorrupted even tho it was the realm closest to eden.

[waxen ermine]

You’re right! The vault could be used as a sanctuary

[inland cliff]

Honestly, I can't believe that it could eventually happen

Like to see how after 1000 years or so, isle comes from a grassy field to a dry desert, who knows what would happen after another 1000 years of shards falling and desertification

Or basically it's just plot holes and Sky defying any logic of weather or time period again who khowwwwww

[waxen ermine]

Yeah…
Wait, did we figure out why Isle became a desert?

All I can think of is that according to scientific papers, the Sahara desert used to be lush with greenery thousands of years ago, but well.. now it’s a massive desert

[inland cliff]

Not all is ruined, the skykids are sent there to become the new generation of the Sky kingdom, to free the spirits from their corruptions

It was to give life back to the world again

[waxen ermine]

Found out the reason why, according to Wikipedia, the Sahara desert alternates between desert and grassland in a 20’000 year cycle caused by a precession of the earth’s axis

So maybe isle will be grassy again

[inland cliff]

Or in my research isle suffered desertification from cold seas since isle is at sea level I believe

[waxen ermine]

Yeah, we see the sea around it
Now that I think about it, it doesn’t get shards

So in the far future event of more monsters making the land of Sky inhabitable, isle and vault are safe

Also I realized I wasn’t clear what I meant by monsters
The thing that inspired the message is the realization that the new dark worm doesn’t leave even after the shards are cleared, it continues to hang around
And it may permanently stay after Days of Nature (gameplay-wise, that’s awesome, lore-wise it’s sad)

While shattering crabs may leave by tunneling away, who’s to say the shard eruptions won’t summon more new monsters across all the lands who stay permanently affixed to their location?
That’s what I was thinking, the kids struggle harder to get rid of shards because of more permanent monsters attacking them

I guess the best hope is the diamond fizzles out from all the eruptions and disappears

[upbeat notch]

I mean to be fair for some reason shards are constandly dropping into the river where the worm is

SO maby the water just got so polluted with darkness that the worm doesnt get effected if the shards get destroyed

[dire night]

The thing is i doubt the krill and corrupted creatures will become more. They only came into being as a result of the ancestors experimentation. Im pretty sure the few krill in wasteland will either pass away because of their lack of food or just stay there indefinitely if they are immortal. So the entire world is in a sort of stasis.

[dire night]

I don't see it as a problem for players to get some harder things to do. TGC already changed Eden (which was supposed to be the hardest part of the game) to become so easy that alot of older players are very bored with it.

I do however think the worm only stays in that part of the river indefinitely just like the turtle. I do agree tho that they shouldn't make it a habit. This one worm is fine 🙂

But i do however think it could make a great addition to the golden wasteland or at the very least Eden. It could really spice things up. Like now you not only, have to look out for krills in the sky, but for worms in the ground too. Like mines. Idk thats what i think 🙂

[celest birch]

Then whoever painted it is an absolute champ. :D

[celest birch]

How about the plain call?

Like, default one?

[waxen ermine]

I see, thanks for your thoughts guys!

I think the plain call was the default one, I can’t remember, people will need to hold hands with the spirits and test deep calls

[cobalt palm]

I know we hear non "whisperer" spirits honking, but I can't place what sound they make, I don't think it's one of the "voices" we have though, it's more like the ping that other collectable items make

[dire night]

What do yall think the golden wastelands name was before it was changed? I imagine something like The Dessert of Dusk (based off of the concept art names). But i do feel it would have stil had that Gold part somewhere in the name, maybe like The Golden Dessert or something. What do yall think?

[waxen ermine]

Makes sense,
Fun fact valley of triumph was originally called “Golden Valley”, makes sense with the gold decorations, so golden wasteland is possibly an extension of it, military district or something

[cold sparrow]

fyi, dessert = food, desert = sandy place
I think it's hinted at (by the trailer of Two Embers, among things) that the Golden Wasteland was not always a wasteland. it may once have been quite a lush place before the pollution
in some post by the staff, it's also been refered to as 'Golden Valley' before (likely refering to the Valley of Triumph alongside with the Golden Wasteland, both together one having been the economic center of the kingdom from the looks of it)

[oblique spoke]

Sassy drifter returned next month ?!?

[next junco]

It may have been golden, before the green darkness snuck in.

I call that place the “Copper Wastelands” - because of how polished copper can shine similarly to gold, but rusts into a dirty green.
Like the color of the whole place.

[spiral vault]

I think the skykids did, to commemorate

[spiral vault]

Looks like a TS Group

[oblique spoke]

if u mean RS, yea...... cause sassy returned on 11 last month

i hav no idea will it be TS or RS

[cold sparrow]

not really lore relevant, is it? more of a discussion for general

[oblique spoke]

yea thats what this channel is about isnt it? Lore-discussion-spoiler

not #lore
neither #discussion or #spoiler
its #lore-discussion-spoiler
Or am I misunderstanding here? @_@

[spiral vault]

Lore means the narrative, story, and world of Sky

[oblique spoke]

oops, meaning im in wrong channel am i?

[upbeat notch]

Uh lol we have a timeline? (Source:https://www.tomzhao.com/sky1)

Was this a thing this whole time?

[lucid bridge]

Yes, but it’s concept art, so some things may have been changed. It’s technically not canon but it does provide insight into the developer’s intentions

[upbeat notch]

Still its suprising to me we dont talk about this

I mean this could give us alot of insides about the lore

[north bronze]

i actually linked that to you yesterday as well as the link to the site
#lore-discussion-spoilers message
#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[upbeat notch]

Oh lol

[north bronze]

there have been things that have changed, but much has stayed within the canon, so it's a very good source for official lore rather than the random guesswork that seems to be going on in here every day

[upbeat notch]

Which is why I find it weird that it hasnt been brought up yet yk? Because there is littrly a whole timeline right there and nobody talks about it?!

[north bronze]

I was talking about it yesterday, but yeah not enough people in the playerbase pay attention to actual canon lore, lol

[upbeat notch]

I mean silly headcanons and theorizing are fun to do lol but obviously this channel cant JUST be silly stuff

[north bronze]

yeah it is, but when people talk about it as if it's most likely canon/is canon, when there's official evidence against it (whatever "it" may be), idk,

[upbeat notch]

So or so we should really look at the timeline

[north bronze]

well the timeline has some VERY obvious pieces that you can see in the trailers for Two Embers, like "shaman elder and prince wandering through the forest and unearthing darkstone"

but also VERY obvious differences, like we have the shattering diamond instead of a "powerful ark"

so it's a very good source for some info yeah

[lucid bridge]

Here in Eden (2nd area). Birds/light creatures being fed into a large pipe? To guide them or to harvest them? We see these animals flying in orbit so I am leaning on the guiding side. That being said, they needed a way to create that diamond somehow, but the diamond is already made. Thoughts?

[upbeat notch]

If this leads to the Diamond it might be the reason why it didnt explode yet because the light creatures that are constandly flowing into it kind of stabilize it in some shape or form

Ooooor maby its the reason WHY the Diamond gets less stable because its overflowing with so much light energy that it cant hold it in anymore which is why it has to release shards. If it wouldnt release shards it would properly explode

[lucid bridge]

Very interesting… I agree that the diamond was overcharged. I think they put too much power into it and it shattered from the stress. That’s my theory.

Maybe it is continuing to shatter because they keep putting energy into it, like you said

[upbeat notch]

Ya I think my second theory makes more sense

[lucid bridge]

There’s also this. Less interesting than the birds going into the tube (which I never noticed before). It looks like the signs near the wind paths, doesn’t it? Or maybe it is just debris. Hrmmmmmmm idk

I think maybe it’s just debris

[upbeat notch]

Ya...btw I have a guess on why the light creatures go into that tube

So when light creature know they are old and dying they will fly to the holy site to die there and go back to Megabird (Source: https://www.tomzhao.com/sky1) They properly have their own instinctive route to go to the holy site so the king just put a tube in that way so that they would instead fly to the crystal

Thats my theory on this

[north bronze]

there are theories (specifically a very long blog post on the Wiki that i once read) that specify how the Forest and Wasteland Temples were used as factories to harvest the light from Light Creatures/animals, and went into detail about how the leftover ashes of these harvested animals is what mixes with the water to make it toxic to us

even in Tom Zhao's portfolio, you can see remnants of this

the light from light creatures is what the Ancestors supposedly used to power Artificial Stars (refined dark stone/dark stone batteries) for their technology

this is was thought to have contribute to the corruption of the kingdom, and prompted the Light Creatures to go to war with the indifferent ancestors

[pale kestrel]

y e s

[static zephyr]

Noooooo….i just redid that quest on my moth account! T_T

[spiral vault]

It could be a ruined pollution outflow that is now used by birds, but I like your theory better
the birds are not leisurely strolling to the Eden Diamond to die

[spiral vault]

A large amount of things are changed, this can only be used as a reinforcement for already existing lore

For example, the "prince" figure most definitely came after the 6 elders (which are called ancestors here)

Also, in the actual canon, the elders weren't gifted darkstone powers, they were already powerful beforehand

The war was also a civil war, instead of a fight against dark creatures

[waxen ermine]

The elders might even be slightly different species than the ancestors, but I’m not sure

They all have darker bodies and are larger in general, with powers

I wonder if every time, there’s been a different evolution of the humanoid species?

We have the elders first, who are dark, tall, powerful. Then later came down the ancestors, who are all smaller and sometimes have the brown mask faces that elders don’t have. Then came sky children, which is the smallest evolution with light in their bodies

I know devs canonically confirmed that Sky kids aren’t the same species, but they behave and look extremely similar

Like ancestor children tend to look like Sky children (see the Bereft Veteran’s son, Hopeful Steward)
They can gift each other candles and ascended candles to get higher friendship nodes, both ancestors and Sky children
They have the brown face masks some ancestors have (nesting guide, hopeful steward, etc…)

[spiral vault]

hopeful steward is a sky child themselves, they're quite different from the ancestors

[waxen ermine]

Except they don’t have a glowing chest light

It was hard to find a shot because the prince had it covered most of the time, but he does have one

(I don’t count head light I think, because it depends on the mask you’re wearing, maskless = no headlight, plus some ancestors have those with their masks)

None of the ancestor kids have chest lights

So Sky Children can grow into adults and get corrupted

And if they do they turn all spiky, probably like the concept art

I don’t know if they grow up through natural age or if they get more greedy, they get more adult (and selfless ones stay young forever?)

[upbeat notch]

I think I acctualy heard that somewhere

[waxen ermine]

Wait really? Where?

I was thinking about MLP where Spike is a baby dragon but got turned into a giant dragon once he got more and more greedy with gems

And reverted to baby when he became selfless again

[upbeat notch]

I think it was this little prince movie from 2015

[waxen ermine]

What happened in it? I don’t remember that part

[upbeat notch]

Could also be from the little prince series I watched as a kid, but the concept seems very Little Prince ish

[waxen ermine]

As the first sky kid, I wonder if megabird sent down Prince to get the ancestors back up to the sky (they do live in constellations) but he got caught up in living in this world like them

(It didn’t help he got tons of glory and praise, and people bowing to him)

[dreamy saddle]

as i like to interpret the shattering, the giant crystal that went boom was a power diamond meant to literally elevate them back to the stars (too bad it only levitated, like, half the castle lmao)
so... in that sense, maybe he at least tried?

[waxen ermine]

Actually, I think he tried to take light from the stars, getting greedier and wanting to go bigger
Light creatures wasn’t enough for him
And that’s when it became too much and exploded

[dreamy saddle]

OH NOW THERE'S AN INTERESTING TAKE 👀

[waxen ermine]

Also I think maybe the power diamond was supposed to power the whole kingdom as opposed to having smaller diamonds all over

[dreamy saddle]

very interesting how that aligns with the symbolism of him eating an orb-shape in the eden constellation we see after vault, kinda eating an apple to represent greed. idk

[waxen ermine]

Also the Eden mural shows the power diamond taking light from the stars (or it could be shooting out stars)
While the king stands under it, arms raised, and everyone bowing to him

[dreamy saddle]

oooh true true

[hollow pilot]

it's interesting to see allusions/references to the bible not necessarily to show christianity or anything but it's a way to help us understand what the drawings are trying to explain. i've found it very interesting that eden was named as such i grew up religious so such references are very intriguing to me lol

[dreamy saddle]

yes i definitely think it's no coincidence. a place that is a paradise but also the birthplace of sin... i think it fits well into the game lore

[hollow pilot]

i was reading back on theories of megabirds and whales just now and it brings to light that even pure/light creatures are used for war, i'm not sure how far back that conversation was lol. again showing that it's inevitable for sin to occur ^

i'm not too far deep in the lore or anything but it's fun to make theories either way

[waxen ermine]

LOL Yeah, the light creatures even fought of their own accord
It seemed this was only in concept art until the Aurora concert showed light creatures during the fight, flying towards it instead of fleeing

[north bronze]

yes it's canon that the elders are a different race. I also read, even though in the very first cutscene, the 6 stars shown to have fallen from the Sky are also confirmed to be the Elders falling down, that the Elders are the oldest race of Sky's "humans"

Elders - original "humans" (probably closer to """ancient aliens""")
Ancestors - settler & civilization "humans"
Prince - Evolved "human" version 1.0
--war and death--
Skykids/Descendants - Evolved "human" version 1.1

[north bronze]

the Prince came after the Ancestors, who (supposedly) came after the Elders/Ancients

the civil war was also a war against creatures. see Aurora's questline for that, as well as evidence strewn across the Kingdom, in-game.
There were a side of Ancestors who were "indifferent", on the side of darkstone technology and the King. and there was a side of Ancestors who were still dependant on Light & were on the side of Light

as for Elder's being gifted Darkstone powers, we will just have to see how it all plays out in the Two Embers project (same with the war, and all the other guess work that most people here seem to be doing)

[swift helm]

who is the stone kids in eden??

[waxen ermine]

Dead sky children maybe

[north bronze]

previous sky children who are trapped in the storm until you save them by sacrificing your WL to them. ||they come with you all the way through orbit and into Afterlife*, gifting you Ascended Candles for saving their souls. now they can be reborn, too||

[swift helm]

waah i see that's why we turn into stone too and then our friend saves us like we save them? :0

[north bronze]

well, it's more just a game mechanic, the "saving them" part, because if we die in eden, our statue can't be interacted with like the regular ones, but theoretically, in lore, i'll say yes lol

however in the actual game, no lol we turn into statues, but our friends can't save us

[ebon wind]

Hey guys, sort of lore question here. Do we have a name for the new dark creature official or otherwise?

[upbeat notch]

We call it worm tho Idk if there is anything official

[north bronze]

oh wyrm thing in Prairie Peaks/Days of Nature? the Wiki just says "a new Dark Creature". i've been calling it a Wyrm or an Eel, but i don't think it has an official name, no

[upbeat notch]

Baby Leviathan was also a name in the beginning but we stopped using that one

[north bronze]

yeah kinda a counter-intuitive name, given the meaning of Leviathan 😂

[ebon wind]

I think it's just referred to as "a new creature" worm sounds right, works alongside crab and krill tbh

[upbeat notch]

Lol

[ebon wind]

Yeah baby leviathan sort of implies something that the creature itself doesn't imply as well

[north bronze]

i really like it, i hope they continue to creatue new light & dark creatures in the future. it's also fun having a different way of being "attacked" instead of just tackled by crabs and krill

[ebon wind]

I could see it being something along the lines of "dark serpent" or something similar though

[upbeat notch]

Leviathan because of the creature in Season of Abyss that ||ate us, like the worm is trying to eat us||

[upbeat notch]

It (the creature) is weirdly stretchy so I kinda think that eel is a good name too!

[ebon wind]

That's what I meant lol, it implies it's a baby version but in game there isn't anything ( other than it being evil) to imply this

[north bronze]

is it a stretch? have you seen an eel?

[north bronze]

it looks nothing like the Leviathan & Leviathan implies "Sea giant" not "tiny little worm"

[ebon wind]

I like the idea of sticking to invertebrates with the names though. Krill crab worm as opposed to krill crab and eel

[upbeat notch]

Well if its a baby it would be a very fitting name given its size

[ebon wind]

I wouldn't say it's tiny by any means, and if it was a baby then it's a pretty big baby

[north bronze]

what if it wasn't an invertebrate?

[upbeat notch]

Ima just call it a Darkness Noodle

[north bronze]

it's very clearly more eel-like than worm-like if you have a look at IRL animals on google, idk what you two are on but it's definitely not a stretch lmao

[ebon wind]

Well it has invertebrate features like the mandibles, segmented body and the antenna

[north bronze]

things that worms aren't known to possess

[upbeat notch]

WARNING ITS DISGUSTING but it has Mandibles

[ebon wind]

Earthworms aren't the only type of worms or animals called worms

[north bronze]

there are more than 1 type of eel, too

[upbeat notch]

And none of them got mandibles, I checked

[ebon wind]

I don't remember seeing an eal with a segmented body, and I've seen some strange looking eels

[north bronze]

i don't remember a worm having eyes, some strange looking worms...

[upbeat notch]

Hey this worm has mandibles and is burrying itself in the ground to catch prey

[cold sparrow]

The creatures of Sky don't have to follow real world animal taxinomy

[ebon wind]

Not all worms are like earthworms, some are completely unrelated(like how Darwin's finches are called finches despite not being a finch)

[north bronze]

the one in prairie peaks is underwater

[upbeat notch]

This one is too its a Bobbit worm

[ebon wind]

And it's aquatic with a segmented body

forgot about cool down was also going to say it's a bobbit worm

[north bronze]

you're both arguing about animal features and how they relate to sky animals, Rooty makes a good point.

why are they called crabs if they have 4 legs and no claws?

i'm calling it an Eel, i don't care if neither of you like it 😂

[waxen ermine]

It reminds me of a garden eel in real life so that’s what I’ll call it too for now

[north bronze]

THANK YOU lmao.

[cold sparrow]

Light creatures cover birds, mantas and whales.... the artists surely had worms like the one posted above in their inspirations, but it doesn't mean the dark worm has to 100% fit our real world definition of a worm or an eel.

[ebon wind]

I'm just saying that it would be cool if they were all named after invertebrates since that was the thing they already had going

Jellyfish are the outlier

[north bronze]

that just seems too much like a personal preference

[waxen ermine]

Looked this guy up, it really does closely resemble a bobbit worm

[ebon wind]

It is a personal preference. But the creature also more closely resembles invertebrates like worms/larvae than that of an eel

[upbeat notch]

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[ebon wind]

Also I believe bobbit worms are small and so are krill irl and in game they are quite the opposite which I think is funny

[north bronze]

"a bobbit worm" although i would like to admit defeat, i just can't see enough similarities to agree with this. the only similarity is that
-they both burrow underground/water
-they both have mandibles

bobbit doesn't have antennae or eyes (in the live game, the creature has eyes)
and the "mandibles" are more like regular looking jaws on the creature. i just can't see enough similarities

[waxen ermine]

Sheesh bobbit worms are creepy!

[upbeat notch]

Ya dont google further they are monsters irl

[north bronze]

forgive me imaginator, i initially misread you

[upbeat notch]

Is ok lol stuff happends (lets just say the creature is a made up thing and leave it at that lol)

[waxen ermine]

I’m fine with calling it a Dark Bobbit Worm, like how krill doesn’t look exactly like a krill

[north bronze]

a name will come for it in the future, like how Krill was the decided name after the players called it that for so long

[ebon wind]

I'd also like to clear up that I don't mind calling it an eel, both eels and worms can be long and creepy which is really all that matters I just prefer worm myself

[north bronze]

i mean TGC really tried to tell us that those big shrimp were "dragons" LMAO

[upbeat notch]

they still try lol

[waxen ermine]

To be fair dark shrimp sounds hilarious XD

I can think of people making puns like “Shrimple”

[north bronze]

they're just big crispy shrimps

[upbeat notch]

yum

[ebon wind]

I was gonna say something about this too, bobbit worms are largely solitary and don't move around catching prey that happens to swim by however the creature in game is seen to be an active hunter moving in the sand. The eyes could also be false, the game has a weird history with animals so they could just be a different form of the spotlights on krills and things

[upbeat notch]

Idk I kinda wanna get on an agreed name (Is Krill even a word)

[north bronze]

a Krill is a shrimp-like real animal

[ebon wind]

Krill is a word hahaha, it's an almost microscopic aquatic lifeform.

Edit: I think.
there's a lot of similar creatures okay

[upbeat notch]

Omg that looks exactly like a Dark Dragon Krill lol

[north bronze]

literally 1:1 except in size

"dragons" yeah okay...

[ebon wind]

Sea monkeys

Dark Sea Monkeys

[waxen ermine]

A lot of the sky creatures are based on water creatures, so it’s not absurd that the worm is as well

-Mantas
-Manatees
-Turtles
-Jellyfish

-Crabs
-Krill

The only thing that isn’t is bird

[north bronze]

whales, fish

[ebon wind]

With the dark dragons in mind, dragons don't tend to be krill shaped, so I theorise that the official name for the weel(worm eel) is a dark serpent

[upbeat notch]

Dark danger noodle

[ebon wind]

I could get behind calling it a noodle too

[upbeat notch]

Lol no its a joke pls dont call it that

[ebon wind]

Too late.

[north bronze]

i'm certain the Abyss Leviathan doesn't have an official name either, although my memory could just be wrong, so i guess it's really just what sticks, like with the rest of the animals

besides, it doesn't all have to be anatomically correct. like, Krill exist because of experiments made on innocent Mantas

i'm pretty sure IRL, manta rays don't transform into giant shrimp-dragons

[ebon wind]

The birds a seabirds. You're welcome. They are birds that hunt at sea

[waxen ermine]

Oh yeah, just realized we never got a name for the leviathan

[upbeat notch]

Honestly THAT could be a Dark Dragon

[ebon wind]

That's not a sentence you see everyday

I think the leviathan is just the leviathan Because it's the only one of its kind and it's massive and malevolent, like the legendary leviathan which is pretty much the same. Better than other names ive seen

[ruby meteor]

Hey there lorechat. I'm here again. I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes here, but I've been trying to look into some things related to the Kingdom lately. Of particular interest to me is when exactly the Eye of Eden shattered during the kingdom's lifetime. Now, I'm weird -- I don't want to be told outright, I'd rather someone point me somewhere I can start looking. My current theory, using the Kingdom's realms as a timeline of its rise and fall, is that Eden shattered right on the cusp of the avarice period symbolized by the Valley of Triumph, acting as a catalyst for the fall of the Kingdom of Sky. Thoughts and directions? I can't make heads nor tails of the Shattering memories, is the thing...

[waxen ermine]

It’s possible that’s when it happened

[ruby meteor]

(In fact, checking the pins here, I just learned the Shattering memories have poems associated with them. huh!)

[ebon wind]

It's hard to say. Although each realm is a reflection of a certain time they also exist at the same time and places like the golden wasteland weren't always a wasteland and the same with isle of dawn.

[north bronze]

so there is a conceptual timeline where some events you can see in the live game & Two Embers trailers, and some events that have clearly been changed, comparing to the live game & trailers, but uf you'd like to have a look for some ideas

as for when it happened, i think you're pretty close. Valley/Wasteland eras where civilization was thriving, and greed was at it's height

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[ebon wind]

What are the more shattering(timeline event) adjacent content in sky?
Shattering shows a little bit
You can always go back to the murals in isle
Wasteland has a fair bit
Remembrance could be good too
Season of aurora also has a lot on the topic

[ruby meteor]

without trying to draw too many real-world parallels, the easiest way I can describe my theory is picturing Eden as a power plant that got overstrained by the growing demands of the Kingdom, and it just couldn't handle it, like in Madoka Magica what happens when a Grief Seed is created hahaha
(wow that image is made for ants, thanks though!)

[waxen ermine]

Not burdened by how much it had to power, but by how much power it carried

[north bronze]

for example:

During the "Darkstone Era", where Darkstone was unearthed, studied upon, and refined into technology, lots of things happened during this era, and "the king had a powerful ark created" - this was replaced with the shattering diamond, since the "ark" is the thing that created the storm and explosion in the conceptual storyboard

i think you're pretty much on the nose with how/when it happened. and Eden/the Shattering Diamond did act as a power source which ended up overflowing and bursting, creating the dead world we see today

[ebon wind]

It's a fairly difficult subject, as with most of sky lore, since we view the world after its end and with no accumulated knowledge to tell us much

[ruby meteor]

It's part of the charm to me, I feel like an archaeologist almost, hehe - it's why I wanna try and find answers of my own! Much more fun that way

[waxen ermine]

It is fun! I wish we could understand the language in the vault mural but maybe it’s just gibberish

[ebon wind]

I'm the same way, I like the lore that's given to me, but there's nothing like uncovering the truth and sifting through possibilities

[ruby meteor]

Light and dark seem opposed to me in this setting, not so much "one good one bad" but rather that one precludes the other. "A filled Void cannot exist", to quote another game, so Darkness to me is the absence of Light and vice versa -- pull too much Light out, and you get Darkness. The Eye of Eden crystal was probably never made to hold Darkness...

That's my take though, and I have far from a lot of information. I plan to drag some moth friends into the AURORA concert again to maybe figure out some missing pieces

[waxen ermine]

The poem mentions it was burdened by the memories it held and exploded

I’m guessing maybe once the king started sucking light from the stars into the diamond, that’s when it went horribly wrong

[ruby meteor]

Right, the poems... yeah I didn't know about those. They're proving to be a bit hard to decipher

[ebon wind]

I agree, as for the darkness' hostility, in a vacuum nothing exists but a vacuum is constantly trying to fill itself up, so a krill being darkness the absence of light is trying to fill itself up. But as we know matter doesn't always behave the same when ina vacuum

[waxen ermine]

This is what I was referring to (sorry for lack of quality, my phone can’t copy paste wiki images so I had to rely on screenshot)

[north bronze]

"dark stone era"

1. prince and shaman elder explores forbidden forest, discovers darkstone material that can absorb flame
2. ancient civilization evolves to new heights due to darkstone technologies
3. dark stone technology absorbs too much fire, creatures attack
4. Ancestors enter a Golden age where the Prince is crowned King (beginning of Prince's corruption)
5. Ancestors become indifferent and disconnected from bird of light - initiate civil war with those still connected
6. ????
7. Elder Creatures sacrifice themselves to destroy "the ark" (changed to shattering diamond?)
8. explosion creates storm filled with darkness, entire kingdom is corrupted

---

decades pass and the game begins

so basically yeah, it was during an era of prosperity and greed

[ruby meteor]

I may have been able to to learn TRUNIC but I sadly don't think I have a cipher for this one, alas

[waxen ermine]

Aww that’s okay,
It looks like it may be gibberish anyway

[ruby meteor]

eh, Outer Wilds: Echoes Of The Eye taught me you don't necessarily need language to hear a story, hehe

[north bronze]

you never know! there could be a translation alphabet somewhere, just unreleased

[ebon wind]

Dark stone seems to function off memory, we see it project memories of things (mentioned in remembrance) and we use it to restore things to their original states (for doors that means open for bridges that means walkable) so it could be that the diamond was created to hold a large memory perhaps be a failsafe for the kingdom but the light needed to power the stone was probably too much and the process was dinged up

[waxen ermine]

It also functions off light, sky children can put their candles to it and make it work

[north bronze]

what powers darkstone batteries (also known as artificial stars) is the power or fire/light

[ruby meteor]

Darkstone is a term that I've definitely not seen before now, is that the technology that powers much of the Forest's machinery (like the door switches) and the Valley's (e.g. Village of Dreams' gondolas)?

[waxen ermine]

Yep! The diamond stones

The Eden diamond is just a giant one

[ebon wind]

Dark stone functions through memory but it's powered through light, one could also argue that in universe light and memory are one and the same

[north bronze]

yes it's the dark-blue diamond shaped rocks that we often use our candle to light. it powers all technology in the kingdom

[north bronze]

it restores some things by memory, but it's typically just a power source, the ancestors used it to power their boats, doors, everything really that required it

[ruby meteor]

That explains why they don't actually stay "lit" when we bring our candles to them. They eat the light, like twisted batteries! I was wondering about those blasted things
I notice the Vault of Knowledge's "memory jars" as I've been calling them seem to be based on a similar but not identical technology

[waxen ermine]

Memory jars are basically like books, you see them laid up in shelves
The fan calls the vault the “library”
You see the memory stones in the shelves of the enchantment guy’s shop

[ruby meteor]

...Wait... if that thing floating in the Eye of Eden was a big battery, where exactly did it pull the power from to begin with? Oh no.

[north bronze]

i'm sure it's the same technology, just built differently

like how we use electricity to power our phones, and also power our house energy

they use darkstone+flame to power their vehicles, doors, memory lanterns, etc

[ebon wind]

Yes that's still possible in this way, because they would have to be calibrated for a specific memory in the first place so there's no reason it's memory can't be changed.

[waxen ermine]

Except it’s more advanced books that display things like computer

It pulled from light creatures, in those giant tubes (didn’t someone see birds flying into giant tubes?) @ruby meteor

And because they fought back, they did it from the stars

[ruby meteor]

Hey can we get a #ShatteringWasRight in here
(that explains some of the AURORA concert...)

[north bronze]

it pulled the power from the kingdom, and harvested animals, this prompted a massive corruption and also a war accross the kingdom. the Prince and his Shattering Diamond are the reason the world is dead.

[ebon wind]

I think it never did get enough power, so like a smaller one at larger scale it's just absorbing as much light as it can

[waxen ermine]

Yep, once that failed, he started pulling from the stars

(You see a mural in Eden)
It probably was catastrophic and too much for the diamond to hold, the elders saw it was about to explode and tried to stop it

[north bronze]

i dont think that was literal that he pulled from the stars. he was trying to reach orbit by going ever higher until he couldn't go any more high

[waxen ermine]

I think he lost interest in orbit (associated as a holy stage of life) , he seems more about greed and powering his kingdom

[ruby meteor]

"When the last tree has fallen, and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money"
wow. I think I love The Seed even more now. damn

[ebon wind]

Id say the crystal was likely supposed to hold a very large memory such as the kingdom itself in order to save it from threats or a large display of power, either way the crystal was unstable and exploded

[north bronze]

you can see in one of the shattering memories that the Elders did try to stop it, but the blast was too much. it's the very shattering memory where you see King upside down on top of the Shattering Diamond

[waxen ermine]

Or a giant power source so people don’t need to worry about the small diamonds constantly running out and needing to be refueled

[north bronze]

he didn't lose interest in orbit, he wanted light from the most powerful source of light there is: the Bird of Light in the cosmos, the giver of life itself

[ruby meteor]

Yeah, I've been noticing that large star-shaped emblem in a few other places. The Shattering memory was the most notable -- it's black, above the crystal, as if someone'd pulled the plug on it. Doesn't even have collision, either. And... well, we can see what happened to the Palace up there too, can't we

[waxen ermine]

Sorry when I said lost interest in orbit, I mean he lost interest in going up there

It said in concept art that the spirits were supposed to die at Eden and go into orbit with the animals, the natural part of life

[north bronze]

i know

[ruby meteor]

Speaking of Orbit, I notice a term come up in the community a lot that I just don't know what to do with - "the Megabird". What's up with that?

[waxen ermine]

Scrapped concept of a giant bird that’s the source of all light

[north bronze]

megabird/bird of light is Sky's "god", giver of life

[ebon wind]

I could also see it being an attempt to invoke the memory of living among the stars an attempt to bring the civilisation to a higher existence or bring the stars down to them

[ruby meteor]

I can see why a giver of light may have minor objections to someone running a gigantic soul furnace, yes

[north bronze]

you can find her in-game

it's not fully scrapped. just not fully implemented. still there, though, very visible

[waxen ermine]

It does mention “when the stars fell” in the game
I can’t remember the context

[ebon wind]

I like to call the megabird "The Light"(capitalised)

[north bronze]

i like to call her the Bird of Light. "megabird" is just so....childish-sounding.

[ruby meteor]

yeah I figured it had something to do with The Light that the game itself mentions a lot, e.g. at Eden's gate, or a few other places
(not to be confused with Light, the... "resource"?)

[ebon wind]

I believe The Light is its official name. But megabird was it's conceptual name that people keep using, probably because it's distinguishable (although childish) in name

[waxen ermine]

Also in the concept art the model would’ve been massive compared to the sky kid, which… probably would’ve caused a whole lot of lag
It’s probably why it wasn’t added

[north bronze]

she is literally a cosmic entity made up of all light, she is huge and we do fly through her, but she is mostly made up of particles which helps with the lag

she isn't a solid object, she's a giant cosmic entity made up of light, not physical

[waxen ermine]

Talking in game terms, having a massive animated model flying, shining brightly would’ve slowed the game down.. maybe

[north bronze]

if you watch until the end of the credits, you will see that the zoom-out is actually of the Bird of Light. the beginning point of this zoom-out, is her "head", the ball of light that we enter in order to be reborn, so we do infact interact with and fly through her "body" so to speak

it's just different than the scrapped concepts

[ruby meteor]

One other thing that bugs me a little bit - in the live game, rain specifically is highly lethal to Skykids, easily able to drain their Light within minutes if left unchecked. Grounded water, e.g. lakes and rivers, seems perfectly fine though. Do we know why?
Personal theory: Shattered Eden's influence corrupts the clouds, infusing the rain with Darkness (which, as per my other theory, is opposite Light, the two canceling each other out on contact)

[ebon wind]

Exactly it's not a physical entity or a single entity it's more like a cosmic lichen, algae or give made up of thousands of not millions if not.. etc.. of other "organisms"

[north bronze]

i'd agree, but there's the constantly-animated eden mountain in the background of almost every area, sky is weird in that it's such a small game, but there's always so much going on that could & should be causing lag

[waxen ermine]

Just the forest rain, when it was raining in the prairie peaks it did no damage (in fact, being struck by lightning fully healed Sky Kids instantly XD)

So it’s likely acid rain

[ruby meteor]

It used to rain there? All I know is the rain from the Moments questline, which does actually deal damage.

[north bronze]

the toxic rain is made from water & the ashes/remains of harvested animals. this was mentioned earlier

there is normal water that doesn't harm us, and toxic water

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[waxen ermine]

Only during this year where there was a days of ??? Event
I think it was Bloom?
The rain didn’t hurt at all

[north bronze]

wasteland rain water.

Forest & Wasteland Temples were the 2 temples that acted as "light harvesting factories" for the light creatures.

[ebon wind]

Toxic water or "dark water" is also canonically a depressants. Like wine

[waxen ermine]

Thank you for reminding me XD
Gosh poor slouching soldier

[north bronze]

well yeah i'd be depressed too, if i was forced to walk through water diluted with animal corpses

[ebon wind]

Hahahah I mean it makes you drunk, if you are an ancestor that drinks it.

[ruby meteor]

Oh man... c'mon, give me good and pleasant rain already ;w;
< loves rain to an almost concerning degree
< favorite area: Forest (formerly?????)

[north bronze]

i wish the Treehouse rain wasn't harmful

[waxen ermine]

Don’t worry, there was pleasant rain in Prairie during Days of Bloom(?) this year
And lightning strikes that healed you

[ebon wind]

Same, I understand why it's harmful, because it is located in the forest but still

[north bronze]

yeah it would just be nice :(

[ruby meteor]

I would genuinely want a prop/spell that just Makes It Rainy around you ;w; but I digress

[north bronze]

anti-umbrella when

tgc please

[ebon wind]

Like the snow globe but rainy

[ruby meteor]

Yeah!!! (worth the 37-second timeout)

[ebon wind]

Oh no, now I'm making concepts in my head for what it would look like nooooo

[ruby meteor]

I'm also kind of wondering what happened to the Isle of Dawn. The AURORA concert (and some footage from the The Two Embers teasers) suggest that the whole place used to be covered in grass at some point. Places don't just sandify for no reason, right? Where'd all that come from?

[ebon wind]

I mean irl we have desertification that actually happens

[north bronze]

well, the Golden Wasteland also used to feature golden fields of grass

desertification just happens over so much time of isolation. in theory, there will be grass and water again in the future. it's just the cycle of land

[ruby meteor]

huh, that... yeah is in fact an actual thing

[waxen ermine]

It happens with the Sahara desert in real life

It’s in a 20,000 year cycle where it will be either lush grasslands or desert, because of the precession of the earth’s axis (the axis doesn’t stay still, it moves around too)

It’ll be green again in 15,000 years

[ebon wind]

Erosion can be a large contributor too, the land is close to a shoreline so constant use could have caused the grass to die and soil to loosen

[north bronze]

besides, the Isle still has grass! just not on its mainland. the temple island and Butterfly Caves still have grass and water, fortunately

[ruby meteor]

true. I just, idk man! I like talking about this stuff. hehe. I hope I've not been too much of a bother in here

[waxen ermine]

Like, flooding? When soil gets flooded it becomes impermeable and hard to grow things

[waxen ermine]

Don’t worry! You’re not a bother at all
(Had to wait for cooldown LOL)

[ebon wind]

Skys main story is sort of rebuilding the kingdom after its Demise so you never know we could bring the green back to isle sometime in the future and get some answers

[ebon wind]

This is lore chat, this is kinda what we do here

[north bronze]

😁 it would be nice to see how the mainland looks, full of life though

[waxen ermine]

Funny thing, the only two places I can think of that did get improved with Sky Children gameplay over time are Valley and Aviary

[ebon wind]

We also have the forgotten ark, and windpaths, assembly somewhat too,

[north bronze]

Forgotten Ark Enchantment area, Cave of Prophecies (historical murals return), Sanctuary ISland's animals return, Season of Abyss you release trapped creatures, wind paths

[waxen ermine]

Ooh! Well remembered both of you

Prairie, Forest and vault seem fine, other places need fixing

[ebon wind]

Even if a season doesn't directly affect the world they usually focus on restoration of the past or helping survive in the present

[ruby meteor]

Come to think of it... it strikes me as a little odd how... intact the Valley of Triumph is. You'd think the Shattering, or at least the time since the Kingdom fell, would do a real number on that place and all its flowy ribbons and construction. It has floating rocks that act as race checkpoints!

[north bronze]

i'd argue that the Forest and Vault have seen better days

the entrance to the Vault, since it was a refugee holdout towards the end of the world, is cluttered and destroyed

the forest...could do with a bit of a cleanup in terms of toxic water and loose bones

[waxen ermine]

Before it did have torn up ribbons snd stuff, there wasn’t even an ice skating rink at the coliseum, it was just a cloud
(And you didn’t collect lights there)

[north bronze]

there is only one tiny little area in the Valley with Dark plants and Crabs. and it's the temple - so close to the wasteland that it almost doesn't matter if it's the Valley

[ebon wind]

Vault may be more broken than you think, I believe it's core dark stone batteries are broken causing it to be filled with cracks voids and disproportionate objects

[spiral vault]

Here's something of note: the chest light is extinguished for Hopeful Steward, while the ancestors have none at all.
(look very closley)

[ruby meteor]

!!!! I never noticed that

[waxen ermine]

Oh!

I wonder if they gave away their light
Maybe in the show they do it to the prince who’s… trapped in the void

[spiral vault]

Here's a slightly clearer picture

[ebon wind]

I believe it's because they ARE the chest light

[north bronze]

the game also seems to have removed the Prince as the "golden Winged Light" looking figure in most murals. I wonder how much lore they've changed in terms of the prince & hopeful steward being/not being early versions of skykids

[waxen ermine]

They did?

[spiral vault]

The murals haven't been changed

[north bronze]

i couldn't find his regular golden representation in the Cave of Prophecies yesterday. it makes me think that upon Two Embers, they will have changed lore

[north bronze]

please show me the prince in the Cave of Prophecy murals dated from today then, because it definitely changed for me

[spiral vault]

it's still there, i think you have to light the lanterns around the cave to show it

[ruby meteor]

yeah, the Cave of Prophecies murals are a bit of a pain to reveal

[north bronze]

that's odd, i've never manually lit the lanterns and it used to be visible to me

maybe something changed regarding game mechanics idk.

i thought i was onto something though!

[ebon wind]

Lore has changed though text regarding the isle murals has changed since I started playing

[ruby meteor]

There's a lot of weird things that I'm still not sure about, even bare basics. Like Winged Light. Why we collect it, why we drop it when our Flame goes out, why creatures seem so intent on snapping the stuff out of us, or even what the point of the Eden ascent really i-
Oh. I think I figured out the Eden ascent as I was typing this. nevermind that one

[spiral vault]

no, but I think it will eventually appear in other areas

[north bronze]

but it is interesting tht Stewie has an empty chest cavity where a candle goes

[ruby meteor]

Wee bit hard to get up to Orbit by yourself these days what with doing its thing up there, so I guess the Winged Light needs help
(the sequence is still a bit too metaphorical for me to fully grasp though)

[ebon wind]

a bit late haha, but we've come up with a few options.
Worm
Eel
Noodle
Dark serpent
Dark noodle

[spiral vault]

I heavily doubt the child you hug is an ordinary winged light

[ruby meteor]

no, I mean the actual Collectible Winged Light around the Kingdom

[north bronze]

just a wee bit, ae

we collect it to strengthen our own wings, as well as return them to previous skykids who are trapped in the storm

we drop it when our flame goes out, because flame is light, light is life, it is our energy source, as we are Children of Light

dark creatures snapping the stuff out of us (😂) because they're malignant and corrupted

the point of ascension is to help our ancestors ascend properly instead of being trapped in their statues/memories. we are immortal, so we get to ascend every week

[ebon wind]

I think it's your soul, you hug your soul with your body and become one again

[north bronze]

i'm more than certain it's the light/fulfilled part of your soul, and you need to hug it to fuse again

i'm highkey glad that lore changed from that particular winged light being the prince. i always hated that idea *as well as the idea that "we're all a fragment of the prince". makes me feel less unique (plus it's already canon that we are a completely separate race)

[ruby meteor]

still not entirely sure why turning to stone leads us to get banished to the Shadow Realm only to break out and spontaneously regrow our Wing the moment we apply a hug to Bright Child
(exaggerated for silliness, but yes)

[ebon wind]

Remember the stars fell and were unable to return back to sky. The elders job was to help Shepard then mback to the sky but along the way stuff happened and the elders fell and the stars(spirits) became trapped on the surface

[ebon wind]

Our wings are made of light but our bodies aren't, in the sequence it's as if our body reconnects with its light or its soul and regains it's wings

[north bronze]

because we're immortal

my thoughts are that us turning to stone is a form of hybernation/protection

and once we fuse with our light-self, we break out like a butterfly and coccoon...it's hard to explain *(what rowafoguwue said - body + soul)

perhaps what we experience is what happens when "someone sacrifices their WL to us" like we would do to regular eden statues?

[ruby meteor]

Wait... You're saying that because we're not entirely made of Light, neither the krill, nor Eden, nor anything else can actually harm us unlike the Ancestors' spirits and the like. They can't kill us - there's something left that isn't Light
That's kind of high-key awesome????

[north bronze]

we are made up of 3 aspects

creatures (light, wings)
ancestors (humanoid bodies, abilities/to use props)
flame (our life essense)

[ebon wind]

Yes. All the spirits used to be the same, but they became trapped in their husks over time, and we set them free for the elders to Shepard them back to the sky, when we set them free we burn away the husk that used to be their bodies. His could also explain why they don't have chest lights in game, because the chest light or flame is a manifestation of their soul, and since they don't have a body they are simply just the soul

[ruby meteor]

I was wondering why we were so notably corporeal compared to everyone else

[north bronze]

they don't have chest lights in the game simply because they weren't powered by light or wings, they were flightless humans, and we are the evolved form powered by light and wings

a lot of ancestors turned to darkstone technology, and therefore were "indifferent" to the flame, and still lived without flame

the chest light/chest cavity is used to store our candle, i dont think our ancestors had such candles

[ruby meteor]

The Spirits themselves seem to be content enough to stick around the Kingdom for some reason or another

[ebon wind]

We pick up the candle at the start of the game, it's left on the floor in front of the stewards husk

Yes we got the candle origin story in the season of revival.

[ruby meteor]

oh, the chest glow is our candle! I just pulled it out in-game and the chest light faded, and put it back away and it came back. huh!

[north bronze]

the ones we see in game are ones mostly who didn't turn indifferent to the flame, think "gods chosen", but in this case it's "megabird's chosen" lol..

people who were still connected to the flame and didn't lose their faith, people who were still able to ascend to "heaven" if you catch my drift

[north bronze]

that wasn't during season of revival. the new tutorial & the picking up of our candle (that we very likely dropped when we fell from the sky, as it's described as "OUR power") came with the steam release last month

if the Steward gave us that candle, then they could have repaired the Aviary village all by themselves, since all it took was our candle

[ebon wind]

Oh yeah true I forgot.

But I still think the candle isn't ours its more like an apparatus we use to access our power. Your point still stands though, there's no reason for an ancestor to have a chest light anyway

[north bronze]

i truly believe our candle is the equivalent to like, a beating heart or something. but that's just my personal belief, so i'm not stating it as fact

[ebon wind]

I believe the flame is that but the candle itself is an apparatus we use to safely regurgitate it for external use.

It's not like we can ask the kid though so it's up to interpretation

[ruby meteor]

oh, that would be why I don't remember that! I started in January (hi! technically a moth I guess!)

[ebon wind]

I did a playthrough of the opening sequence after the PC launch to see how it changed knowing it changed in revival as a beta player. So since my introduction was the old one naturally I didn't realise what was aviary launch and pc launch related

[north bronze]

ahh, i made a new skykid for the new pc/tutorial launch as well

[ruby meteor]

but yes, after some experimentation, it turns out that the "put candle away" animation in-game is not in fact just a broken arm rig like I thought it was, no you do in fact specifically put it back into your chest
so that's good to have debunked after like half a year I guess lol

anyway yeah! lore talks are fun and I thiiiink I'm gonna have to visit all the murals again at some point
(sips on knowledge like British people sip tea)

[ebon wind]

Yeah the opening has a little animation like gaining a star on your cape except your thrusting a candle into you chest

[ruby meteor]

yeah like I said, I didn't get that because I started before that part of the opening sequence existed
The fact you can't revisit it feels weird...

[north bronze]

do you feel like it's weird in IRL that you can't revisit the moment you were born? 😛

[ebon wind]

Makes sense since it's not the same as being revived but you can always make a temporary local account to check it out

[ruby meteor]

I mean... you'd think "waking up" would be a nice memory to cherish and revisit, right? :p

[ruby meteor]

You can do that?

[ebon wind]

When you open the game you have an option to switch accounts

[north bronze]

honestly just like in Sky, i can't remember the moment i was born

oh wait, yes i can in Sky. i found a random player and added them then kept asking if they were [my friend], not realizing that they couldn't see my messages

typical moth behaviour

[ruby meteor]

overwhelming urge to perch on the Aviary belltower please hold

[ebon wind]

Hahahah, my first time in sky I didn't make any friends and went to Eden in day one got confused by season of gratitude and left

[north bronze]

very nice, my first Eden trip was very traumatic, i thought i completely ruined my friend and I's accounts/playthroughs

turns out i was doing everything exactly right

by the time we broke out of our statues and the music started playing, i was crying so much lol

[ebon wind]

I then came back in performance, so a bit of a hiatus. The vibes I felt then were very different to what I feel playing sky now, it was a lot more lonely

[ruby meteor]

I kinda knew what to expect because I'd played Journey, so that helped (as do 20+ years of videogame experience)

(hmm. PC does not seem to give me the option to switch accounts, and unlinking seems Extremely Unwise)

[north bronze]

you got a phone, ipad, or switch? just use one of those

[ruby meteor]

they're all linked

[ebon wind]

I played sky when it was getting some mention in the app store (I played on the day gratitude started) so naturally I was mad about the forest rain, I thought wax was just a means to recharge and didn't know how to get candles and was so disappointed in dying in eden.

Because at the time majority of the players were moths, vets were basically non existent and you weren't going to bump into a light awaits player often

[north bronze]

so are mine, and yet i am able to switch accounts seamlessly by tapping the bottom "switch account" icon

all it does is logs you out, and asks for an email+password

[ebon wind]

Phones have a local account so you can use that, I'm a switch player so my account now linked to all except my PC version and i can switch to a local/gamecenter account on phone

[north bronze]

i'm a switch player who uses 3 accounts with no issues switching between them on any device

[ruby meteor]

PC does not have the Sign In Method button, just a Quit button :p lemme get my phone! sorry for the hassle, this just seems like a fairly major detail to know

[ebon wind]

Yeah same, I have three accounts, one is my main, one is my original account since I made a new one when I rejoined on switch and the third is for a an upcoming restart playthrough with my friends to get the full new moth experience and revisit the lore details at the start.
My main, my legacy and my nostalgia

[north bronze]

oh my alts are for hearts, i deleted the other account i made for the new tutorial after doing eden once on it

[ruby meteor]

wow, this opening sequence is entirely different

[ebon wind]

Yeah

[north bronze]

look how many wings you begin with too

14 gasp

-i remember watching the new steam release trailers and seeing people comment on the 14 wings

[ebon wind]

That's more than you can currently get, even if you started at the very start and have every wing buff

[north bronze]

yep! still only 12 wing maximum! it's 233 or 235 WL, i'm sure

only 15 more travelling spirits until we ccan get a 13th wing lol *i hate slowmode

[ebon wind]

Thats so close but so far

Agreed slow mode is mildly irritating

[north bronze]

goddd i knowww...as time goes on, only more and more spirits will be made as the seasons are made, and we will have so many that haven't even had their first visit as a TS

the system needs a serious rework

[ruby meteor]

god damn I wish the game told me this much when I started playing... ahahahaa... haaaahhh...

[ebon wind]

Yeah, and especially with the current trend of season spirits not being humanoid. I think a TS rework will help a lot with the rotation since it's going to get increasingly more rare to get your favourite spirits over time and increasingly rare to get spirits you haven't bought out for those who do that. They need to rework it so that it makes sense for an orb, mannequin or IKEA display to appear out of nowhere and so that everyone can benefit from the system at all times.

Anyway we should probably get back on track with lore chat

And I have nothing lore related to add and it's late at night so I may take my leave.... Unless someone says something intriguing enough to start more lore discussion with me

[north bronze]

the game is intentionally designed to be unfair to newer players and force people to spend money on IAPs, which, as a f2p MMO, understandable

but for the messages that Sky tries to put out there, it's very hyppocritical and counter-active

"a social game to spend with friendds and loved ones" - constant disconnections
"relaxing worlds and ambient sounds" - not allowed to afk (relax), it's difficult to find a quiet or lonely spot unless you really try
"express yourself and be unique" - most cosmetics are locked behind extremely long waiting periods, ridiculous pricings, and IAPs (large part of the playerbase are children, people who can't afford it) - the hair that resembles my IRL hair the most, didn't release for a year after i played. and it's an IAP. i have to pay money just to resemble my IRL self in this game.
"you cannot eat money"

i had much more to say, but i accidentally pressed enter, and this isn't lore-related, so i'll end it here. goodnight Rowa, i'm going to go out and buy breakfast

[ebon wind]

Not to mention the only meditation spot is located in a concert venue only accessible via a no longer available iap

[north bronze]

oh i'm so looking forward to the Anniversary Event, there's going to be a new meditation area that's just gorgeous. NastyMold posted a video last week

[ebon wind]

Shhhhhhhh, I know Im a beta tester, but we should stay quiet about it. For those who want to wait until its in the game to know about it

[ruby meteor]

Oh- I guess they explicitly spell it out, huh? "the Sky went dark, and our Kingdom shattered"

[ebon wind]

Hahaha yeah they changed a bit with shattering too

[north bronze]

it's also really easy to brush past so many lore details when you're just starting, too, *like, as a brand new player

[ruby meteor]

this is what I get for habitually skipping cutscenes... or maybe it's because I wasn't in Lore Mode™️

[north bronze]

new player mode :P

[ebon wind]

Yeah, I've watched a few moth playthroughs of sky where they just ignore the beginning murals, which makes me quite sad.

Mainly because I was one to light everything I found when I first layed so I didn't miss anything other than spirits and dark plants

[north bronze]

it is sad, but i don't blame them, this game can seem cryptic to those who just want to know "what's the objective" and wanna just "play the game" (get to the end as fast as possible)

and often times if you don't invest yourself from the start, you likely won't invest yourself at all

but for a game like Sky or Journey, it really is about the journey and not the destination

[ebon wind]

Revival has somewhat helped with it, providing a lot of prerequisite knowledge to the player before the reach isle but it won't ever be enough which is fine, going back to find new details you missed is part of the fun

[ruby meteor]

As someone who habitually glosses over most of Isle of Dawn because how barren it is, it contains a staggering amount of quite important lore... Oops...

[north bronze]

yeah and even thoguh i'm a bit of an older-ish player, i feel a large emotional attatchment to Stewie, so maybe newer players feel that too, since they have a character to interact with upon starting the game, someone to tell them where to go, what to do, how to feel and react

I love the hopeful steward so much i just want them to be happy 🥺

[ebon wind]

Yeah it seems isle of dawn was a place of culture back in the day

[ruby meteor]

A whole one wing flap

[north bronze]

it's kind of odd how barren the Isle of Dawn is, wouldn't you agree

like, sure it makes sense that it's a desert now, but i wonder why there are none of the buildings or structures we see in the trailers (other than the passage stone(s), the pointing candlemaker cave etc)

Isle is the furthest realm from Eden, so surely it should have been affected the least in terms of destruction

[ruby meteor]

It was also just a staging point, so I guess a lot of the structures there were built to be... "portable" feels like the wrong word

[north bronze]

then again, in the trailers and stuff, it's mostly tent-like structures...it's possible for biodegration or something else to have taken them away due to time

*oh your reply makes a ton of sense too actually, probably more sense than what i'm thinking

[ruby meteor]

The way I see it, the Isle of Dawn was always just seen as an entry point into the lands of Sky proper - very small, back then probably fertile, but far from the actual objective - after all, it's still on ground level! Even Sanctuary Islands has next to no structures on it. These people wanted up

[north bronze]

yes that's exactly what it was, mostly a passing or an entry point for the people of old to ascend towards the "Holy Mountain", and a place where people could undertake the elemental trials

[ebon wind]

Most of the structures in isle were temporary like tents and coverings if market stalls, which need people to maintain them, and the sand has covered a large portion of the area so a lot could just be buried

[ruby meteor]

Still not sure what the point of the Trials is or was...

[north bronze]

successful trial-goers were rewarded with elemental magic, most people would actually die attempting these trials, and the only confirmed success is from the prince, who spread his reward of elemental magic to the realms (according to the murals)

[ruby meteor]

Y'KNOW NOW THAT I THINK ABOUT IT THESE TRIALS WOULD KILL THE HELL OUT OF PEOPLE THAT AREN'T US HUH

[ebon wind]

I believe it's likely he was the first to finish all four whilst most of them would work hard just to finish one

Edit: Sorry I said three it's getting late for me...

[north bronze]

you can see people depicted as dead in the murals! blue figures laying face-down.
i mean, they were flightless people. most of the "fails" during the trials are bottomless falls

[north bronze]

yes more likely, and yes 4 elements/trials

the murals on the wall depict this as well as the princes journey to Eden, and the murals are all gorgeous

[ruby meteor]

ok, new plan: let's all agree to do nothing the way the Kingdom did because that place sounds like it was a, um, bit of a mess

[ebon wind]

I meant four but typed three

[north bronze]

lots of scary real-world parallels of greed, corruption, animal ||abuse||, mass desctruction/explosions, war* etc

sounds like our real world is a bit of a mess too 😬

[ruby meteor]

(the dead people bit flew a little over my head! wew. I really gotta check out all the murals again... and see if I can figure out mention of the Prince, considering how central they seem)

[ebon wind]

I don't think people actually died in the trials I just think they would have to restart like we did but it would take a long time to get to the point to where they can fully complete the trial

[ruby meteor]

counterpoint: Trial of Water, extreme freezing and/or drowning risk
Air has an actual bottomless pit
Fire has creatures that eat you.

[ebon wind]

We meditate to get into the trials it could be literal, it could be a trial that happens within the mind so the people are at no physical risk

[north bronze]

the world of Sky is rather dark, and the isle is usually depicted as a sort of ancient/early era, i wouldn't put it past the story to have people die during the trials tbh, it seems fitting, especially how they're all quite literally dead & in spirit form nowadays

[ruby meteor]

yeah but I'm not mentally equipped to handle that and it's a can of worms I prefer to avoid when I'm in Lore Mode

[ebon wind]

It was secretly a form of hunger games

[north bronze]

hmmm good point...good point indeed

but it wouldn't explain the figures laying face-down. usually this is used to depict death in both real life murals and in media

[ruby meteor]

To put it another way, I'm very Watsonian (to a fault), less Doylist

[ebon wind]

Can I see the images for reference? Or at least give a guide to where they are?

[north bronze]

what is Watsonina/Doylist?

[ebon wind]

I wonder the same thing

[north bronze]

yes i'll try to google some, i'm not playing right now, but i was looking at them lastnight with my bestie:

from memory, it was the wall inbetween Water & Earth. OR, Earth & Air. i could see at least 3 "dead" figures

[ruby meteor]

Watsonian/Doylist are terms that people use to express lenses through which to view fictional stories - the Watsonian answer to a given scenario is the "in-universe" one, whereas the Doylist lens is the one that parallels it to the real-life circumstances under which the story was written

As a potentially not-entirely-right example, the Eden crystal. The Watsonian lens views it as a device used to harness Light throughout the kingdom, that was overloaded and overstressed and shattered.
The Doylist lens could very, very easily equate it to a nuclear power plant (or even just straight-up a nuclear bomb) and everything that entails.

[ebon wind]

I'm a mix of both I guess, I see how the real world influences the universe but I acknowledge that the universe isn't constrained by the rules and happenings of the real world

[ruby meteor]

Both is, of course, equally valid and important sometimes; but I've never been very skilled in applying a Doylist view to things -- I'm very out of touch with the world (for my own sanity)

[ruby meteor]

oh! That golden figure there by the shrines must be this Prince you mentioned

[north bronze]

so this suggests 2 people died in the earth maze (top left), 2 people died in the air platforms (top right), 2 people died in fire (bottom right) and 0 people died in water (bottom left)

[ruby meteor]

silly, that's not how murals work

they're abstractions and generalizations - "these places have indeed claimed lives"

[north bronze]

so...it is how a mural works...it's depictions of lives that have been claimed

[ebon wind]

Its true that it could mean they died, but being murals with minimalist style it could mean other things such as a failure

[north bronze]

i'm willing to accept that, i'm just more used to being exposed to the idea that "laying face-down = dead" from other works

[ruby meteor]

Just saying trying to extract exact numbers from these seems a bit odd, it's like looking at a report saying "millions died" and taking that to mean precisely 1,000,000 lives were lost there hehe

[ebon wind]

We could equate the figures to be those who failed the trial but it could also be the people who died. It could mean the one that made it through them all killed them or it could be completely abstract and not literally be referring to people

The other thing it could be depicting is the rules of the trials

[ruby meteor]

The important takeaway is that there were unsuccessful attempts on the Trials

[north bronze]

the amount of people depicted in the mural isn't the focal point of the discussion, just that people have died, i wasn't expecting such a nitpick

[ebon wind]

I think there is one in the water trial, it's just blurry, but it could be explaining that if you stray off the path you fail the trial

[ruby meteor]

hey, you're the one who gave specific numbers! Just trying to make sure we're on the same page here. No hard feelings or anything, I promise.

[north bronze]

yes i did give specific numbers, but the point was that people did die, i was just listing what I feel like the murals suggest

which brings me to: it's up to interpretation, since it is a mural after all

[ruby meteor]

Nobody ever said semantics and tone are easy to convey through text. But yeah, at this point we're running in circles.
Kinda like me sliding over the ice rink because I'm tabbed out

[north bronze]

mhmmm nobody likes misunderstandings isbesttomoveon

[ebon wind]

So it could mean the sideways people are
those who died in the trials.
Those that failed the trial but not death.
Or it could be an explanation of how if you stray off the path you will fail.
Or a representation that many may try the trials but few actually complete them

[ruby meteor]

Here's a question that I'm wondering: Were the Trials a rite of passage? Was it expected that they be undertaken, mandatory to a certain extent even? Do we have anything on that?

[north bronze]

still it's all very interesting
all the murals in the game have tons of lore, but so many people will walk past without thinking, just doing their rushed candle runs

[ebon wind]

Yeah, with that in note, the season of passage takes place in isle too, and the passages are sort of outdoors trials with friends in way, so perhaps they function similarly

[north bronze]

i think it must have been some kind of advanced rite of passage for some kind of power role?

but we also have the passage stone & the rites of passage that were introduced during it's respective season

[ebon wind]

Perhaps the passages are more mainstream while the trials are more specific. The passages give valuable lessons of cooperation with others, whilst the trials give lessons on the self and may be a source of magical power

[ruby meteor]

Hmm, I think the Season of Passage is largely unrelated to the Trials, but they could be connected in some form, if we wanted to equate each of the elements with one of the Passages, but without anything solid to go off of anything I could say here would be conjecture

That is to say, they're not not related.

[north bronze]

perhaps the Elemental trials were a rite of passage or trials for people who wanted to learn special magics, like the Enchantment Guide and their group of spirits

and the Season of Passage is the normal "rite of passage" that earlier people would go through kind of to uhm...basically just become a functioning member of the type society they lived in? kind of like scouts or something? it's made adamant somewhere on the wiki that Season of Passage takes place pretty early in the ancestors timeline

[ebon wind]

They're definitely both of cultural significance and are undergone by youth

[ruby meteor]

Wait. If the Trials were undertaken (and completed) by the Prince, that suggests they were around even before he rose to power. In other words, the Trials may well be older than the Kingdom.

[ebon wind]

There are 4 trials and 4 passages (excluding the first quest which you could argue brings it to 5 but I don't think it's referred to as a passage)
We see 7 different coloured lights in enchantment and 8 if you count the light seekers yellow light.

4 trials 4 passages and 8 lights

[north bronze]

well, the kingdom is younger than the prince, the trials were definitely around before he rose to power and became king
the Prince completed the trials during the era of fire, and he rose to power during the era of darkstone

the trials, and by default the ancestors & elders, definitely existed before the prince

perhaps not the kingdom itself

[ruby meteor]

right, the Elders and Ancestors are the wildcards here, I can't figure out where they fit in or who appointed them. Considering their role, as according to the opening, is to "shepherd souls to the stars", they're proooobably definitely older than the Kingdom and related to The Light™️. That's my understanding, anyhow.

On that note: Apologies if I made you tense. I didn't mean to be confrontational, if I came off as such.

[ebon wind]

We see an abundance of different magic in sky perhaps we could equate the trials and passages to the 8 lights?

[north bronze]

each elder has a different role
isle - sheppard new souls to the stars
prairie - take care of and breed light creatures such as butterflies
forest - mining & smithing darkstone ore into artificial stars
valley twins - sport, competition, entertainment
wasteland - warrior/war captain
vault - keeper of knowledge, preserver of time

headcanon

official - they are definitely older than the kingdom, and we are all related to the Bird of Light

[ruby meteor]

Ah right, yes, each of the Elders has a tool associated with them and something they do when you stir them awake

[north bronze]

hmmm
red light - fire
blue light - water
cyan light - air
yellow light - earth

green, orange, purple,

i can't for the life of me remember any other colours, halp

[north bronze]

there's no need to apologise, i'm a bit of a social oddball and i can be a bit intense at times. i also love lore

[ebon wind]

Here's the list.

Lights:
Cyan
Green
Orange
Blue
Red
Purple
Yellow

Trials:
Water
Earth
Wind
Fire

Passages:
Reliance
Assistance
Coordination
Alignment

I'll come back with the enchantments description of the lights

[ruby meteor]

If I wanted to extrapolate, I could equate green with "creatures", orange with "civilization" and purple with... "ambition"? Considering how darkness fits into Sky, that feels like the right word
I'm... not sure what point I'm trying to make? It just feels right.

[north bronze]

gosh we seem to be missing 1 colour

i'm still gonna go ahead and believe what we're saying though

[ebon wind]

True my brain did not count it properly earlier there's only 7

[ruby meteor]

This might seem silly to say, but white seems like a pretty obvious eighth color of Light

[north bronze]

keep in mind that the trials themselves also have the same colours as 4 of those 7, as i listed above

they may not be related, but there has to be some meaning as to why they're the exact same colours of light outside of "game mechanics"

[ebon wind]

Who knows it could be, red light appears in two places and yellow appears in 6, so we could just have a repeat

[north bronze]

yeah maybe

plus, in the trials, red light is associated with fire

but everywhere else, the colour Red is associated with "false" or "fake" fire (krill eyes, etc)

[ruby meteor]

clearly, this means all the candles are fake /j

[north bronze]

lmaooo

[ruby meteor]

(honestly, to me, the blue of the "darkstone" material that eats light feels closer to false fire to me. Like Krill spotlights when they haven't seen you - you also turn that same blue when your Light is being drained)

[north bronze]

so when it comes to colour representation, i'm going purely by Tom Zhao's portfolio,
blue is meant to represent ancestors & "indifferent" (indifferent to the flame)
so in a way it kinda is the opposite of fire, but not necessarily fake fire

[ebon wind]

Red light can be found where darkness prevails

Blue light can be found at a pure mountain lake

Cyan light can be found amongst the wind

Green light is a gift to the earth from the sky

Purple light is said to hoard ancient secrets

Orange light offers warmth in times of cold

According to the enchantment description but hey aren't direct quotes

[north bronze]

Blue "lake"
Cyan "wind"
Green "earth
Orange "warmth"

yeah i'll take that as elements LOL

[ebon wind]

Blue - water
Cyan- air
Green - earth
Orange - fire
Red - reliance(simply because the quest is dark)
Purple- assistance
Yellow - coordination
??? - alignment

The passages are up for interpretation

[north bronze]

aye, she'll do aye

[waxen ermine]

What if purple = magic?
Red =uh.. darkness, probably

[ebon wind]

Let me get the enchantment symbols up

Each light also has a symbol, excluding yellow

[north bronze]

yep some of those are prophecy symbols, look at green for Air as depicted in the cave of Prophecies, as well as the other more obvious such as water and fire

[waxen ermine]

Interesting
Red = swirly
Purple = diamond (metal?)

[north bronze]

diamond* typically refers to artificial stars - refined darkstone, so perhaps purple is "knowledge" or "technology"

[ebon wind]

Knowledge makes sense

[ruby meteor]

Fun fact: That far right one, the yellow one, is the alchemical symbol for Air

[north bronze]

tht IS a fun fact

[ebon wind]

The enchantment description says something about purple light hoarding secrets

[north bronze]

which furthers into the Knowledge suggestion yeah

[north bronze]

lol maybe the artist for Sky meant to make it the Earth symbol and put it upside-down 🤣 Yellow IS earth in the trials after all

[ebon wind]

I think it's supposed to be earth but they flipped it around by accident. Although the tip given for green light is "a gift to earth from the sky" or something along those lines

[ruby meteor]

I was wondering why the color associated with earth had the symbol for Air, I... uh... didn't consider that it might just be flipped...

[ebon wind]

Btw that is the green light lol

[north bronze]

HAH

[ruby meteor]

shush, it looks yellow to me on the thumbnail, I'm half awake and surfing around the ice rink thinking about Sky Lore™️ xD

[north bronze]

i can't even use the half-awake excuse, it jsut straight up looks yellow to me 😂

[ebon wind]

I was clarifying because it's a very yellow green

[north bronze]

yeah like i would have continued saying that was yellow if it hadn't been pointed out

[ruby meteor]

ok so I can admit I'm not in fact half awake and was just using that to save face

[ebon wind]

I also realised that it's not actually an earth element. It provides the ark with flora, so it's more like a life or a plant element

[north bronze]

okay

red, swirl, prevails in darkness

all i can think of is "false fire" (krill spotlights), corruption, or dark creatures

as for the plant/flora/not being an earth element, i have to disagree there, sorry

[ruby meteor]

Flora is just wiggly and/or opinionated earth

[north bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/mushroom-dance-dancing-mushroom-dancing-dance-mushroom-gif-26099536

[ebon wind]

The earth element in trials is yellow as well and isn't necessarily associated with plants

[north bronze]

yes but if we're going to make that argument, then what of the green light being a "gift to earth from sky"?

[ebon wind]

That's what i was saying,
the description mentions the earth and sky, but it mentions it as seperate to what the light is

[north bronze]

yeah truly a wall we've hit, but remember earlier, we agreed that more than 1 light might be associated with an aspect, so maybe earth has both green AND yellow

[ebon wind]

With green light being plant focused it could be placed onto the passage of alignment. Moving yellow to earth trial and out unknown to coordination

Also I went over the description but I forgot to mention what each light actually does in enchantment.

Red: creates the murals
Cyan: opens the sky
Blue: purifies the water
Green: rejuvenates the soil/ grows grass
Purple: creates the drapes and tents
Orange: lights the fires

Anyway I should probably sleep now, hopefully you guys figure it out so I can look back when I wake up

Goodnight yall

[north bronze]

i think we have it all pretty correct other than Red, which we haven't guessed

going by the functions of the lights themselves, perhaps Red could be "art", or "memory" since murals are also historical depictions, rather than just art. but both of these aspects (IMO) tie in to "knowledge"

Red: ??? Art? Memory?
Cyan: Air
Blue: Water
Green: Earth
Purple: Knowledge/Technology
Orange: Fire

goodnight Rowa, i'm going to the store for lunch

[grizzled vector]

during the Days of Color last year there were eight shrines and each of them had its own color. the eighth color was not white. each color was matching a basic cape color (excluding the black and white capes).

[north bronze]

so Pink is the only thing that would make sense here

[north bronze]

then again, there is no* "yellow" cape, only orange, which sometimes gets referred to as yellow..

[grizzled vector]

actually one of the colors didn't match a normal basic cape but i think it accepted the Chill Sunbather cape or the "starter pack" yellow/light orange. but also yea, pretty sure pink was one of the colors

[north bronze]

oh wow! interesting. i missed Days of Colour last year (as well as the 4 TS i actually wanted the most) during a small health break i took sadly. I'm so looking forward to it this year!

[ebon wind]

Oop I should be asleep but I came back and good point with the days of colour. That ads pink.
Also in days of colour both yellow and orange are in the alter orange being the sunbather cape

This is such a trivial theory but it's so cool how it all connects.
Prophecy passage enchantment and days of colour oo I'm excited to see what y'all come up with Because I'm going to sleep for real this time

[grizzled vector]

i seem to recall the concept art mentioning that orange is supposed to be a "sacred" color (since it represents The Light). obviously it would only be sacred to those who worship The Light though, which might be one of the reasons none of the spirits wear orange capes (aside from Chill Sunbather)

honestly though, i'm not sure how much sense it makes to try to map types of magic in Sky to "colors" since colors are kind of hazy and arbitrary categories to begin with

[north bronze]

well, the spirits we see in-game were more than likely on the side of worshiping light & the flame, or those who were once indifferent but came to see the light
-i say this because it's not very likely that a god-deity would create a new race of people & send us down to save the souls of non-believers & naysayers

but yes, orange represents the flame, life, and light. blue represents ancestors, darkstone and indifference to flame

[grizzled vector]

there are technically thousands of identifiable colors and even if we go with the "basic" colors there are ones that are not on the "rainbow" spectrum (brown, for example, along with black and white)

[upbeat notch]

but blue is the light of ancient darkness tho while ancient light is orange so my theory is is that blue is ancestors, darkstone and darkness

[north bronze]

honestly i'd love to see a brown light that isn't orange or yellow, or a black light that isn't purple or UV

[north bronze]

blue is representative of the ancestors, i just said this lol

[grizzled vector]

black is literally the absence of light though, there is no such thing as "black light"

[upbeat notch]

can be ancestors but also Darkness

[north bronze]

exactly, and black or white also aren't colours

[grizzled vector]

what are they then?

[north bronze]

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

@tem, black and white are gradients. they are not colours.

[grizzled vector]

(white is also technically the combination of all colors)

[upbeat notch]

Primary colors

[north bronze]

yes in RGB and light formats, i'm not really sure what your point is though

*not trying to sound hostile just a bit confused

[upbeat notch]

Yes I know concept art says that but ancient darkness just IS the color of blue so id argue its all the things you listed and darkness

[ebon wind]

I'll go to bed for real now. But we're were originally correlating the trials and passages to eachother and too the different magic types which lead into the colour thing through enchantments use of the coloured light

[north bronze]

yeah slowmode + two people having different replies to me isn't working out, i'm gonna go to the store. sleep well Rowa

[grizzled vector]

have a good night Rowa!

[upbeat notch]

bye bye Rowa

So we pause the Lore channel for now?

[north bronze]

it's bringing out a level of stress in me that i don't want to express, you all have a good day and i may be back later!

[ebon wind]

Heheh. I like rowa it's cute but fun fact, my username is actually Rogue, but it's been changed by Devs twice and I haven't changed it which has caused it to look the way it does now.

Goodnight everyone. For real for real this time

[upbeat notch]

Oh I didnt know this was stressing you, Im sorry...

[grizzled vector]

sorry, i didn't mean to make anyone stressed out about anything i said

[north bronze]

no no it's not you two specifically. it's just trying to juggle between 2 topics as well as Slowmode being enabled lol, anyway have a lovely day you two

[upbeat notch]

thx you too

[grizzled vector]

understandable

victory! i won the argument by eliminating the opponent!

(just kidding, i wasn't even trying to start an argument)

[north bronze]

😂 i don't think we were eeven disagreeing on anything hahaha! and yes i'm still here...darn screens huh

[upbeat notch]

Color Funfact: Orange is just a lighter shade of Brown

[north bronze]

ok i'm seriously hungry so it's time to go to the store, back later nerds

[upbeat notch]

Btw whats the area called where we go to before being reborn?

[grizzled vector]

my point was more that, like, in real life, "colors" are more or less a continuous spectrum and labels we put on individual colors are kinda hazy and arbitrary. and on top of that, colors are more of a psychological perception thing than a physical thing (no single physical wavelength corresponds to magenta, for example, but we perceive it as "its own color")

[north bronze]

yes i'm still here

i call it afterlife, but most people just call it Orbit

[upbeat notch]

Hm I wish it acctualy had a name..

[grizzled vector]

so in light of that, i'm not sure if it really makes sense to try to enumerate all the colors in Sky and assign types of magic to them. i mean there's obviously at least a few clearly associated with types of magic but i don't think it's as clear cut as "there are N colors and they're magical"

[upbeat notch]

Tbh we sky kids use all sorts of spells dont we? But they never look different from eachother

[north bronze]

while i do agree wholeheartedly with this statement, i do like to keep thinking that the trials & the enchantment lights are forms of magic, as in Enchantment, it's shown in cutscenes, and in Trials, it's expressed as some form of reward (also the murals depicting the prince being granted the magic & sharing it across the kingdom), and maybe passage has magical lights, too, but i'm yet to see evidence on that.

of course i agree that not all light has to be associated with a colour or a magic, jsut enchantment & trials specifically

[grizzled vector]

The area with the "door" to being reborn is called The Light in game. We're basically "in"/"part of" the "megabird" when we're in it. the area before that (ascending into The Light after leaving Eye of Eden) was apparently referred to as "orbit" even in the concept art even though real orbits don't really work like that. i'm not sure it has any "official" name

[north bronze]

the "spells" we use are 3 types:
-scrolls (diamond shape)
-potions (bottle shape)
-spells (circle shape)

[upbeat notch]

Aaaaah ya okay that makes more sense tbh

[north bronze]

pretty much on the nose yup

[north bronze]

tbh i could be super wrong about the shapes but those are the 3 types of spells we can buy from the sleepy traveller's boat or the enchantment shop

[upbeat notch]

Tbh I dont wanna go through this whole chat again sooo what was our view on lights and magic typs again?

[ebon wind]

Me still not sleeping. It wasn't really about the colours themselves but the magic, the colours where a means to name a magic type we don't have a name for. And it started with a discount of 8 lights only for there to only be 7 until days of colour was brought up bringing it back to 8, the colours themselves are a visual identifier but they aren't really important

[north bronze]

the elemental trials reward you with a magic of each type:
blue - water
yellow - earth
cyan - air
red - fire

the enchantent season asks you to retrieve special coloured lights, more than likely also magic, to repair their ship & area
red - paints the ship with murals
blue - purifies water in the pond
cyan - opens the clouds to the skies
green - brings flora to the lands
purple - repairs the structures & adds shops/curtains
orange - lights the flames

and there is mild discussion on the Season of Passage being related, too.

Enchantment was discussed to be related, as you can see the elemental symbols inside the coloured lights in the season's official art

[upbeat notch]

Oh hey thats my phone backround : D

[grizzled vector]

the Trial magic does seem to be associated with specific colors. what i'm wondering about is, there's basically two possibilities. one, types of magic are just types of magic, and colors are just "special effects" added for the sake of visibility (even in-universe). the other possibility is, different types of light are actually inherently magical in their own right.

the second option seems to mesh with the whole idea that Light is magic in Sky ("we built the kingdoms with the power of starlight" and all that) but i just really don't see a logical way to decide what makes something a different "magical color" as opposed to just a color (like brown etc)

[ebon wind]

Passage was the main focus as 4 trials and 4 passages is 8 which matches the 8 lights which through enchantment we new 6 of them were directly correlated with magic and the yellow lights behaved the same way. We realised there's only 7 lights but then days of colour comes in bringing in pink making.
8 lights
8 magic types
8 trials/passages
8 players in a server

Trials and passages may be the same thing but different

[north bronze]

regarding light generally being magic, i have to also point out tht in the Two Embers, and other trailers, that some characters are seen manipulating lights as if to manipulate magical energy

in this universe, light is considered to be an energy source (whereas darkstone is just the catalyst it runs through)

[grizzled vector]

right, but then you have questions like, ok, so we have the color pink, what is it the magic of? we have the color brown, is it magical or just a color? if blue is the "color of darkness" does that mean Cinnamoroll was a creature of darkness? etc

[ebon wind]

The trials clearly have a colour for their magic and they mostly correlate to what we see in enchantment.

Passage doesn't have much colour associations but you can probably relate the themes back to the 4 remaining magic types

[upbeat notch]

I mean we can have blue capes and blue outfits and that has no meaning I assume its the same with Cinnamoroll

[north bronze]

i don't think any collaberative content in Sky, apart from Aurora, is actually canon. but that's just me

*the chinese had a KFC event with Colonel Sanders. you wanna tell me that's canon? 😐 (please say no, for my sake)

[grizzled vector]

if colors themselves are magic then wouldn't that mean that a blue cape is a magical cape containing blue magic (whatever that might be)?

[ebon wind]

The spectrum of colour has little meaning in the discussion. The days of colour alter has 8 colours and those are the only ones we need to focus on. Since they are the only colours we see that have some sort of energy or magic associated with them

[upbeat notch]

Sooo its just light (magic) that has the color blue and blue itself isnt magic

[north bronze]

it's more that the light is magic, not the colours. the colours just symbolize what type of magic it is. as for "why", well, i don't know, and i don't think personally that the explanation needs to run as deep as the "why" it's coloured the way it is, after all, it is magic. knowing everything about it removes the fun and magic of it

[grizzled vector]

Chinese Sky is ran by a different company and is its own continuity/parallel universe. where, yes, KFC is a thing in-universe, i guess 🤷

[visual lichen]

Did anyone ever notice that the season spirit is the same spirit in the large pi ture frame?
Could this spirit maybe be related to the forest elder?

[upbeat notch]

Omg why is this always the case with chinese versions of games???? (See Plants vs Zombies and you understand)

[north bronze]

yes :) it later is referenced in one of the Seasonal quests!

*from yesterday, people including myself seem to agree that it's a mentor/apprentice relationship

[grizzled vector]

pretty sure it was canonically mentioned they were an apprentice to the Forest Elder

[ebon wind]

Because they have strict gaming laws so companies have to go through people like netease to allow their games to be played there. And that means the new company gets to add stuff they want to

[visual lichen]

That's an cool point of view

[upbeat notch]

What else is canon in chinese sky?

[ebon wind]

The coloured light was to see what magic each passage was associated with.
Excluding blue for water yellow for earth, cyan for air and orange for fire
We are left red related to darkness in enchantment and purple related to secrets in enchantment and yellow light from daily quests/ light seekers
And pink from days of colour and green which is associated with plants in enchantment

[ebon wind]

Don't know, I'm more familiar with the pvz2 china stuff tbh

[upbeat notch]

lol

[upbeat notch]

Looked it up its a bit but at least its the same game in most things

[grizzled vector]

i think they mostly have the same stuff as us tbh. i know they have some version of Kizuna Ai hair that's exclusive to them (looks similar to Blushing Prospect hair) but pretty sure the KFC thing was the most major thing they had that was specific to their version

[ebon wind]

Given the final passage has a flower motif I associate the passage of alignment with green light or nature magic.
Reliance could be red due to its associations with darkness although purple could work as what lies outside in the darkness is mysterious and a secret

Coordination I'm not sure

Assistance I'm also not sure

[ebon wind]

They also had some collabs with other games that western players wouldn't recognise

[upbeat notch]

People lets go back to lore lol

[grizzled vector]

i thought Cinnamoroll wasn't in their version (which was the whole reason they did the KFC thing instead)

but this is lore! from a parallel universe!

seriously though, yea, was gonna say the same thing. i don't really think this counts as lore anymore

[ebon wind]

Trying to associate the known magic types with the passages!

The remaining types are
Red: associated with darkness and murals (swirl symbol)
Purple: associated with secrets and fabric(diamond symbol)
Green: associated with plant life (alchemical air symbol)
Pink: unknown

Passages in question
Reliance: trek through the forest at night
Assistance: collect the runaway masks
Coordination: put the orbs on the masks
Alignment: align the light across the trail of flowers

[grizzled vector]

aside from the overall tangent of whether collabs count as "canon." which, in my personal opinion, they do in a sense that Sky pushes the fourth wall quite a bit to the point where "Sky is a game" is itself canon part of the setting. but part of canon is not the same as "part of lore" (canonically Sky is five years old but lore-wise the Shattering happened much longer ago than that)

[ebon wind]

My prediction
Green - alignment
Purple - assistance
Red- reliance
Pink- coordination

Alignment has flowers prominently featured in its passage, plants are associated with green light

Reliance is red because it features darkness both in the shadows and as dark plants and pollution characteristics that the red light is drawn to.
Assistance is purple because it's looks mysterious

Coordination is pink because it is

NOW I SLEEP this time I'm not lying

[spiral vault]

Wrong, Hopeful Steward will suffer horribly in The Two Embers seeing their entire world die and I will watch in glee

[spiral vault]

The problem is, it's a prophecy, we don't know the exact time as to when the Prince completed the trials

[spiral vault]

The rightmost one is more like a greenish yellow, similar to what's shown in Prophecy

I think the Enchantment and Prophecy elements are the exact same, the enchantment lights even have the prophecy symbols

[spiral vault]

The international version isn't better, we had a collab with a vtuber

I firmly think the "main 3" collaboration seasons fit into the lore of sky

Here's what I think about the colors:

Red: Darkness/shadow, used to hide/reveal murals
Orange: Fire, used to create fire braziers and light up stuff in the Passage Stone
Pure Yellow: Basic light, such as the "catch the light" quests
Yellow-Green: Earth and Nature
Blue: Water
Purple: Mind/Knowledge

Pink might be sharing, there's a pink glow when you hold the hands of a butterfly (I saw this earlier) #lore-discussion-spoilers message

I don't think the colors of light have any inherent properties (Valley isn't dark and on fire), but instead the elemental powers manifest themselves in certain kinds of light

[simple ridge]

is this like an altar? did spirits do sacrifices of the birds or sth? why?? i really need an explanation...

[upbeat notch]

Could be an alter but I dont think for sacrifices

[devout forum]

does any of u knows what the buildings that are on graveyard was before it was invaded by dark?

[waxen ermine]

I remember the skybot saying it was dead

Found this rock in prairie peaks with the air (or was it water?) symbol, I’m not sure what it’s here for

[north bronze]

that has been here since Days of Bloom, my guess is that it's where the elemental prophets will visit this year

[north bronze]

Prairie Peaks also seems to be getting a lot of attention for events, so maybe something future-event-related

*maybe related to the upcoming ||olympics|| event

[muted salmon]

honestly maybe the area is literally just a graveyard for the dead

[muted salmon]

say guys, are the trees of the forest the darkstone?

[waxen ermine]

Nope, it’s rocks they mine in caves
The trees are wooden trees

[past pollen]

they were here since the days of bloom, where the water rose, to where the rocks were. as i assume they are to indicate flood water levels

[grizzled vector]

i wanna say it kinda reminds me of the swallow from the Thumbelina fairytale. that obviously doesn't explain how it fits into the lore, but if it's just a shout out there might not be a deep reason it's there besides "it would be cute, let's put it there"

[hushed steeple]

The hidden name of this game is:

Sky children of the credit card

[light belfry]

🤣

[hushed steeple]

our main purpose is to clear our mothers' credit cards

[opaque bridge]

Recently I studied the murals in the Cave of Prophecy and I noticed a few things that are questionable for me. What's the building behind the fire element?

And why are there pipes in golden wasteland? Where exactly do they lead? Does polluted water come out of it? And is the polluted water a by-product of the dark stone stuff?

[hushed steeple]

The pipes are probably related to the polluted water

And the polluted water is probably self explanatory, it was polluted because the spirits polluted it

The dark creatures didn't come out of nowhere, they came because the spirits' behaviors welcomed them. Those creatures already existed

Sky helms are a product of what our real world will be in some years

We still can revert, but sadly... I don't feel like we will make it. Because just the minority is trying

[north bronze]

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[hushed steeple]

In our journey in sky, we find spirits with exemplary behaviors too, but as in real life, they were the minority

[waxen ermine]

Went back to prophecy cave to take photos and label things, I’ll see what happens

[waxen ermine]

These are my labels so it may not be accurate

[dull fiber]

sky kids of lore, can anyone dm me lore of sky? (can be full or halfy cutted)

[slender jay]

this last picture, isnt that the wasteland elder using fire? did u make a mistake?

[waxen ermine]

Oops!! I meant wasteland you’re right, mistake

[slender jay]

anyways good work, helped me a lot to understand the lore

[dawn wharf]

Since those elements correspond with four of the colored lights we see in the enchantment quests, what about the red and purple lights? Why do you think they didn’t have trials associated with them?

[opaque bridge]

wow, thank you so much for your effort💗@waxen ermine

[waxen ermine]

You’re welcome!

[north bronze]

pretty accurate other than the last picture which Snowman already pointed out

[north bronze]

red is gifted to us during the fire trials, it's actually orange from enchantment that doesn't correspond to the trials, which to me is strange considering the colour representation with orange supposed to represent the flame and red supposed to represent false flame

[dawn wharf]

Wait really?!?! What?!

[north bronze]

mmmmm

and in the art for Season of Enchantment, red has a swirl symbol within it, and orange has a fire symbol

bunch of confusion

some of us were jumping through hoops discussing whether or not the trials were related to passage & enchantment

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[opaque bridge]

One more question: What's the lore behind Treasure Island?

[north bronze]

generally theories + the murals around the Season of Abyss location speculate that it was some kind of captive refinery centre used to extract/process light from creatures, which ended up turning them into the Krill and Leviathan we know today

the seasonal guide & spirits i think are just a group of sailing treasure hunters that happened upon the area long after the events

[dawn wharf]

You know, I guess this is my sign to try out the fire trial. Anyone wanna come with me??

[dawn wharf]

I took some pictures in the cave of prophecies, and the light to me clearly looks orange so far.

[north bronze]

do the trial and look at the colour of the light it gifts you

[dawn wharf]

Alrighty

[royal python]

what does it even mean that the prince gained the power of the elements?? like i don’t think he’s like the avatar or anything, otherwise we’d have the same powers.

i also am noticing that what the elders do with each of their gifts ends up possibly being bad?? like the wasteland stuff seems to be associated with the turrets that would’ve acted as the krill do seemingly, the air seems to have been used to power boats which use the power diamonds?? (that one’s a bit confusing actually; does the air or the power diamond power the boat? otherwise i do think the air stuff can be shown through just how windy and sometimes anti-gravity the place is, especially in coliseum), in forest the water becomes poisoned, and prairie… no idea lmao, perhaps because that’s where the dark plants are introduced is my best guess.

[north bronze]

then compare it to the Enchantment's Red Light, and compare it with Enchantments Orange Light, then come back to me

[north bronze]

The Elders definitely were rather morally grey, especially Forest and Wasteland

you are noticing correctly, they made some bad desicions and that's why our world is dead

[waxen ermine]

I don’t think they did, like Sky children who didn’t get elemental powers, it merely lit up the prophecy stone thing

I’m confused about the air boats, they already have them in the beginning with isle and stuff, even in the trailer the prince rides a school bus boat to the praire cave

[north bronze]

as for "gaining the power of the elements" i think it's just forms of elemental light magic, and Season of Enchantments cutscenes are a good example as to how it could have been utilized/it could give a decent idea

you both mentioned air boats, since Prairie got given the power of air

i could maybe take a guess that the "power of air" in question is just better windflows, like in the Bird Nest area, where air is more floaty & its easier to fly

my articulation isn't the best right now as i am tired

[waxen ermine]

Valley got air actually, prairie got earth

[north bronze]

oh oops

[waxen ermine]

But now that you mention it there was like, air magic flying around before praire I think (season of enchantment)

[royal python]

another thing. i notice that vault and isle are both absent from receiving elements. for one thing, this means that these elders were present at the time the prince completed the fire trial, and likely also means that these parts of the kingdom existed. however it implies that vault had not yet existed, and it also possibly implies that isle might’ve been more or less abandoned (the sky animation project implies the ancestors were perhaps nomadic hence there being not many signs of an organized culture, so i assume they simply just moved on from this land and settled down).

lastly, the prince becoming king has the same uhh symbol as when you gain a new wing slice, including when you first gain your cape. there are no capes in the trials. neither children in the trailer have capes im pretty sure. so i wonder if upon reaching eden, he gained his cape then, because gaining a cape or wing slice is the only time we see this animation. i suppose this implies the existence of winged light even then?? i’m not sure.

[north bronze]

Well there are writings that the Isle Elder was exiled from the other elders, as you can see his face isn't visible on the Eden Door, or the group of Elder Statues between Eden and Orbit

[north bronze]

as for what powers the boats, it's "artificial stars" (power diamonds) - otherwise known as "refined darkstone". it's powered by feeding your flame to the stone and it acts as a battery

i'm not sure where Air Power comes into play in the Valley, as most of the Air in that realm is quite heavy, since it's so high in altitude

[royal python]

yeah you guys are talking about air right now, i’d say the most important element is fire since it is the basis of light in the game. and fire also most definitely existed before it was gifted to wasteland. it’s actually kinda funny because there’s not that many candles in wasteland, probably the least amount out of all realms except isle. it could imply that, since the turrets have the same function as krill, that their searching beacon is made of fire, which is strange considering they are dark creatures.

[north bronze]

their search beacon is made of "false fire" - the colour red represents this. the colour orange represents "true fire", light, and life
blue represents ancestors, darkstone, and indifference to the flame

[royal python]

maybe it’s less that they were given the element of air and more that each realm came to retain traits relating to those elements?? like valley you can very obviously see, but that doesn’t mean air is restricted to valley, it’s just that valley has an abundance of it or something.

[royal python]

and the krill search light is definitely that ancestor blue color

[waxen ermine]

Now that we’re talking about turrets.. is that what fired in the Aurora concert?

(Remember during Aurora concert, while birds are flying over the sky, for some reason, a red beam fires from the ground into the sky, then after a pause the clouds become a whirlwind that suck the birds down)

It’s not really clear, it gives me Eden diamond vibes but it’s likely not that

And when you do go down you don’t see what caused the red lazer

[royal python]

false fire, what does that mean exactly? false life? false warmth? but also like, okay there’s a few possibilities. either what we see with the krill isn’t made of the fire that was given to wasteland elder and so understanding how fire played a role in wasteland is a mystery because it was originally for the turrets but those turrets don’t exist anymore.

it could also be that the krill ARE powered by the fire given to wasteland elder, which would imply that all the other elements are false in some way, or perhaps it could be said that they aren’t false but more that they aren’t naturally created, they’re artificial somehow. like maybe not fake necessarily but it doesn’t originate from megabird. which would imply that the trials are maybe bad in some way (or at best, just neutral), but then why would we be encouraged to take them?

the last option is that the krill were initially powered by a true fire but something corrupted that fire. i’m not sure how this could be. going off the theory that the krill were originally manta, it could be said that with the corruption of manta the fire inside was also made false, but then why would the manta need to have been powered by fire anyway??

i kinda like my second idea the most but it does have a lot of holes and needed explanation.

[royal python]

perhaps. actually, it would be a good explanation as to how the ancestors fought the creatures of light. that was a common trouble with that theory, but this would explain why, because giant lasers were shooting at them lmao.

[north bronze]

yep false life, false warmth, in the concepts it's described as such

the krill used to be Mantas that went through experimentation, as seen in the Season of Abyss murals. definitely not powered by fire or light (anymore), lol

as for how the Wasteland Elder used fire, and for that matter, the rest of the Elders and their elemental gifts, i think we will potentially have to wait for the Two Embers for a definitive answer. but i believe these elements are a replacement for the storyboard's:

"3. Prince gives the Ancestors special Dark Stones that make them godly." from the Darkstone Era

[north bronze]

for referencce

[royal python]

is this from concept art? i’m noticing that the elders are shown to be ancestors but ive seen others say they are a separate species

[north bronze]

yep, Tom Zhao's portfolio (https://www.tomzhao.com/sky-all). there have been a few very obvious changes, but there is still plenty within that storyboard that we see in-game, and even in the Two Embers trailer for me to personally still consider it when discussing lore

and yeah, it interchanges Ancestors & Ancients quite a lot, makes it a bit challenging to understand which race is being spoken of sometimes lol

in the case of "giving the Ancestors special Dark Stones that make them godly", i'm more than certain this is the Elders

[royal python]

i’m much more used to series without retcons so ahhhhh this is very confusing lol

[north bronze]

"prince gives ancestors special dark stones" - i believe this is changed to "prince spreads his gift of the Elements to the Elders' realms"

"Prince has Warrior Ancestor build a powerful ark" - i believe changes to the creation of the giant refined darkstone (now known as Eden's Shattering Diamond), considering that this "ark" is what explodes and creates the storm of darkness. in the current lore, it's the shattering diamond that does this

[north bronze]

we definitely see (who is believed to be)* the Prince wandering through the forest with the "Shaman" Elder in the trailers for Two Embers

[royal python]

yeah that makes sense. i was confused why there was so much emphasis on the ark lol. the importance and role of the dark stone shifted from being a corrupting force to something more neutral seemingly, and so it puts more responsibility on the greed of the ancestors that the sky world is the way that it is.

[north bronze]

mmmmmhm!

[royal python]

so assuming that the gifting of the elements is supposed to fill a similar role to the gifting of the dark stone, i think it could be interesting to explore the idea that like the dark stone, these elements were artificial in some way. i think the main purpose of this plot point is that it serves as the beginning of the divide between the ancestors and the mega bird. i’m wondering if what happened is that people stopped worshiping the mega bird and instead began worshiping the elements instead. i’d have to think on that though.

[royal python]

ah i don’t mean the dark stone is artificial, i mean that it didn’t come from mega bird i guess?? not sure how to put it

[north bronze]

from what i understand, it's more that people became indifferent to the Bird of Light & the belief in the Flame in general, and it was a gradual shift since the unearthing of Darkstone & refining it into modern technology. a lot of real-world parallels of war, greed & animal exploitation.
I don't think the elemental magics is what played into this, i think the elemental magics were simply just elemental forms of light magic, which was already a common practice with our ancestors; light magic - as you can see them manipulating it in the trailers

and i dont think darkstone or any inorganic matter came from the Bird of Light. as far as I know, the Bird of Light is the creator of all life

[plain fern]

Imagine if we could meet the young elders

[mild aurora]

That'd be cool!

[spiral vault]

A turret

[spiral vault]

Fire is more of orangish red, the very deep blood red is darkness

[spiral vault]

Either two things:

1. The Prophecy happened extremely early, even before Two Embers (unlikely)

2. The Valley civilization with the air powers could do more than make boats float, they built their entire area floating

[spiral vault]

I've never seen the red lazer, but we do see teal lights falling into the ground and knocking things around, that might be wind magic

[soft timber]

Every coloured magic we see from Enchantment spirits seem to be based off of different kinds of magic, such as teal being wind magic and blue being water magic. This pic from the Sky Wiki seems to play into that

[spiral vault]

red is darkness, purple is mind, greenish-yellow is earth magic

[north bronze]

you say "red is darkness, purple is mind" as if this is definitive; these were just your guesses from yesterday. Red and purple have no official correlation, but it was more widely accepted that purple is knowledge - regardless, there is stil no confirmation, it's all speculation.

[north bronze]

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[soft timber]

:o!

[tribal otter]

Probably not much. Maybe it'll reveal an Aviary winged light, tho I doubt it.

[cold sparrow]

Beta content is not to be discussed outside of the beta channels

[hollow mesa]

Opss sorry

[north bronze]

care to provide? ("it's in the game files" - void_of_shattering)

[spiral vault]

how am I supposed to provide the game files...

[north bronze]

a screenshot...

[spiral vault]

Even if I had such a thing, it wouldn't be good sharing official files here

[north bronze]

well then until evidince is provided, this can not be taken seriously

[spiral vault]

That's why I wanted to dm you earlier, about the game files

[north bronze]

i don't DM or befriend people i don't know.

[spiral vault]

You'll have to take my word for it then

[north bronze]

i do not have to, and i will not

internet safety is a bigger priority for me than discussing a video game with strangers. i've had far too many awful experiences on discord with people from games.

[brave patio]

Ash (concept artist) called it “the Lurker” while it was in testing!! I’d have to find the exact screenshot

[north bronze]

perfect, i love it

[brave patio]

Good idea someone else in the lore chat got their account compromised that way

[brave patio]

Just post it on tumblr or something and then share the link here? That way everyone can look without worrying about internet safety and we can know it’s real

[waxen ermine]

This is the red laser (I think the player took damage from it but I’m not sure)

I tried seeing what caused it but it looks like the turrets weren’t active

https://youtu.be/9SUJxAF9bVA?si=fB7mBKgntlgJPfzb Check out this great video, came out a few days ago so this is recent

When shutting off the WiFi right before collecting the ascended light, it makes them uncollectable for a bit
The player ran ahead and found a giant sparkling Sky kid who’s T posing (on the constellation pad)

The giant Sky kid disappears once collecting the ascended candles, there’s no way to see him clearly by playing normally

Used some photo editing and drew an outline to make it easier to see

[north bronze]

interesting. i also see these (almost) every time i run through Eden.

obviously a visual bug. just creepy, funny, and semi-related.

well, i say "visual bug" but they are physical entities that you can not walk through, and as you can see, my friend & I are looking directly at it (even though my friend couldn't see the spirit)

[north bronze]

re-upload without my currencies being visible

[rain frost]

lore chat, im curious: what's the theories/thoughts on why the people of sky wear masks?
esp considering we see it for skykids, ancestors and elders which are all slightly different beings physiologically

[waxen ermine]

Probably for cosmetics, show of status, jobs, etc

Not all ancestors seem to wear them

[north bronze]

probably the same reason that no one has a mouth other than the Little Prince

design choice

but in terms of lore, culture

[unique verge]

My friends and I have a theory that skykids are blind from birth and that the masks allow them to "see" with light and the echolocation of their cry.

[real mortar]

I might have missed worm discussions already, so apologies if I'm repeating others, but do you guys think there's a connection between the eel we saw in peaks river during bloom and the dark worm we see in nature? (I know technically the worm is higher than where the eel was swimming, but considering they do a shuffle shuffle grab, I'd say its within their skill set to climb up the small waterfall)

[lucid bridge]

Personally I think that the worm and the eel are related I think the worm is the eel corrupted but it very well may not be. Idk

[upbeat notch]

some people say that it had a nametag in the past: "The perfect Child" tho idk if this is true or not

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[north bronze]

regardless, i don't think it's lore related. just a funny/spooky little bug that goes unexplained

it no longer appears as an orange-caped, adult-sized WL. these days it appears as (what seems to be random) Seasonal/Travelling Spirits.

i have no idea why it's there, but my only thought is that it might be some kind of placeholder or "Skyrim Merchant Chest" type deal upon interacting with the Elders (in Skyrim, every merchant has a storage chest buried somewhere nearby for their stock)

it can't be upcoming TS, if Hairtousle Teen was so recent

[north bronze]

this has been a pretty known theory for a while. i personally don't like it, but it makes too much sense to dismiss

[livid scarab]

Chat.

[sudden monolith]

whats the second pic?

[north bronze]

I believe it's an Empyrean depiction of Heaven from Dante's Divine Comedy

*according to google, the title of the artwork is "Paradiso, Canto 31: The saintly throng form a rose in the empyrean (rose celeste)"

[upbeat notch]

Ah sad I wished they would have acctualy added onto it even if it was a bug

[real mortar]

I thought so too, it seems coincidental at the very least, but it's sad to think that the eel may have been corrupted by the pollution, but then if it's not the eel where did they go

[north bronze]

i wonder why i don't remember this Days of Bloom worm - i was there every day! can anyone send a pic? i want to see what it looks like, lol

[spiral vault]

Everyone sees with light... that's how seeing works

[north bronze]

i think what they meant was that the light from our eyeholes is what allows us to see, not that we see using light.

could be wrong, meh

[north bronze]

ty!!
I swear when i was watching videos of Days of Bloom (when it was still upcoming this year) that what i saw was the eel from Days of Nature that grabs us

memory can be a funny thing

[brave patio]

No problem! Currently searching for that screenshot of Ash calling the nature creature The Lurker

[north bronze]

even if they were 2 completely different creatures, i can see this one being the corrupted eel from Days of Nature...it has a kind of chitin-plating on its head area

or just corrupted in general!

*i much prefer Lurker than worm or eel

another edit: tbh the "Elder Creatures" and/or Whales in Sky also have a chitin/bone-like playing on their head area, so maybe not

[brave patio]

Oooo yeah….

FOUND IT

[north bronze]

amazing, i will now call them Lurkers from here on out

[warm oriole]

It reminds of the really big creature in the deep waters of abyss

[waxen ermine]

Well remembered!! Lurker is a great name!
(Also this confirms it’s an adult species of its own)

[north bronze]

looks very alike, i agree

so now we have Krill, Leviathan, and the Lurker. 3 different types of Dark "wyrm" creature. I wonder if/how much they will expand upon this, their types, whether they're related/the same species of corrupted or transformed animal, or a whole new evolution of Dark entity entirely

it's fairly certain (to me) that these 3 types of Dark Creature were corrupted by the Ancestors or pollution. But what of the crabs? they share absolutely 0 traits with the other 3 types of creatures. they have no chitin plating to armour their body, and they have legs.
-actually, nevermind my question about crabs. they're in the Two Embers trailers, as well as other places you could consider pre-war/pre-corruption. maybe Crabs are just natural to the Kingdom. i don't see why every living thing has to be aligned with the Flamt or Bird of Light

[waxen ermine]

Yeah, they’re likely just neutral creatures that get corrupted with darkness, little crabs

[north bronze]

little pretend rocks

[waxen ermine]

I find it funny that people would rather keep them as pets (Pleaful Parent, Enchantment Guide) than any light creature (except maybe the season of flight spirits)

[north bronze]

acktchually....

i think pleaful parent was "begging" their crab to come back so they could cook it 😭

but the others yeah totally, and there's also the teeeeeny tiny creb in Aviary Village, where Frightened Refugee just stands and stares at it all day

[pastel brook]

I swear I just saw the water ripple in the homespace behind the quest statue... I wonder what's going on?

[north bronze]

this bot is making me want to log in and see what's going on...

okay you got me. i'm logging in.

[waxen ermine]

That’s what I first thought when I played the spirit as well, that. He was trying to chase it to eat it

But when I read it on the wiki, it seemed to imply it was his pet more? I forgot

[north bronze]

oooOOOooh (waiting for slowmode.....)

[waxen ermine]

(I get the feeling, waiting for slowmode )

As you relive its memory, the Pleaful Parent chases their companion crab through the Graveyard, occasionally hiding from the watchful eyes of the Dark Dragons. When they reach the far side of the area, the Spirit can be seen diving after the crab and missing. They return back to the bonfire, where the crab stands on top of the Pleaful Parent's head.
At the end of the memory, the companion crab runs off as the Pleaful Parent puts their hands on their head in shock. The Spirit tries to run after the crab, but it disappears into the dense green fog. The Pleaful Parent then drops to their knees and extends their left arm, as if they were pleaing "Don't go!".

I honestly thought he was doing a poor attempt at catching lunch XD

[north bronze]

explain yourself! all i see is the gate to the Aviary

[waxen ermine]

Maybe saying Aviary triggered it? It’s possible this was written before the door came up

Wait refugee was looking at a crab this whole time?!

[north bronze]

YES!!! so if you approach them and look at the window they are standing at, there is a TINY TINY crab!

[dire night]

Yeah it sits in the window :3

[waxen ermine]

Oh my god that’s amazing

[north bronze]

i feel like crabs are neutral, since they get used in quests, cutscenes, and are as Starry mentioned, loved by some of the Ancestors

i don't want to go into BETA or spoiler territory, but there is an upcoming event that utilizes a crab in such a way that makes it seem like they really are just ordinary neutral creatures, as opposed to dark or light

they seem to be a mascot of some kind, anyway

[north bronze]

one of the primary quests/cutscenes i'm thinking of is Quest 2 of the 9 Coloured Deer, where crabs are just alongside other creatures of light, as if they were no different

[spiral vault]

They're also one of the creatures in the shard memory quests

[cold sparrow]

I like to think that Parent tried to catch these crabs to cure them
since the crabs over the fire are cleansed and free of darkness

[north bronze]

i really like this thought. how cute

[waxen ermine]

Came over to compare it to the shoulder crab cosmetic

Maybe this is the equivalent of someone staring at another guy’s cat through the window (In this case, Enchantment Guide’s pet crab)

So like, crabs are neutral creatures that can get corrupted

The king of Sky was a child of light (he had the chest light in Two Embers), which makes me wonder, what separates him from other children of light? Are they all neutral creatures, being a mix of light and ancestor?

Does that mean it’s possible for Sky children to grow up even larger than elders and greedy, corrupted?

[spiral vault]

Who says they grew up? Maybe the reason the sky kingdom collapsed was because a child was on the throne

[waxen ermine]

If we go with the “mech” theory, yeah maybe!

In all art, they depict the king as larger than the elders, either a little taller or towering

[north bronze]

so,

Elders - original "humans"
Ancestors - second, settler "humans"

the Prince - "early acccess Skykid ver 1.0"
(i have thoughts of my own that the Prince and the Hopeful Steward (or the other child in the trailers) are the only 2 of their kind; early Skykids

Descendants - "Updated Skykids ver 1.1"

[spiral vault]

It remains to be seen if the prince/steward are any different than the skykids

[north bronze]

hence why i mentioned that they're my own thoughts* (Stewie specifically)

however, yes, the prince is different from the Skykids. in that he came first. and we came decades upon decades later, a slightly updated version of what he is, and uncorruptable

it's interesting to me that in most murals, the prince is depicted as a fullly golden Winged Light figure, but us Descendants are depicted as a Blue figure with Golden Wings, *further signifying that we are different & a mix between the 3 aspects of ancestors, flame, and creatures

gosh, i hate editing my messages but sometimes it's just necessary

perhaps the bugged figure in the afterlife from earlier (#lore-discussion-spoilers message), the one supposedly labelled "perfect child" is supposed to be the prince? a fully golden skykid, with no other aspects

definitely a stretch, but an interesting thought nonetheless

[waxen ermine]

Also, sorry for the topic change all of a sudden

But I find it funny that Sky children preaches environmentalism, but then uses things like paper boats and fireworks
The paper boats thing was egregious when I saw them floating in the polluted geyser, it made me rethink of it as if it was people leaving paper trash in the water everywhere

And fireworks are known to cause huge amounts of pollution (as well as injuring birds, which I thought would happen with that light manta flying around before the fireworks show)
Also made me wonder if fireworks staffs were at first weapons, but used for colorful display after (fireworks came from gunpowder in real life)

[north bronze]

yes! i had a very very similar discussion with my friend the other day about this! and the Chinese version of Sky (with their KFC event) being counter-intuitive to the message of animal compassion 😂

also Aurora's "you cannot eat money"

[north bronze]

ohhh the fireworks staves potentially being used as weapons in the past is a very interesting thought!! especially if you take into consideration that in the Trailers, you can see one of the spirits briefly manipulating light/magic

i also seen either you or @spiral vault mention that the turrets might have been used in the past, long before the events of the game, during the war, but are no longer functioning - i like this thought

[waxen ermine]

Aww thanks! And Sky kids obviously wouldn’t turn them on, they’re not creatures of destruction

…although maybe it would’ve been helpful to blast the krills

[north bronze]

i wonder what the lore reason is for the red shard resetting on me 🤔

[unique verge]

Of course, what I meant was that : according to this theory, skykids use their cries to capture light as a kind of luminous echolocation, and the mask is there to transmit the information thus captured to their mind... A bit like spare eyes
I didn't elaborate, as I didn't really want to go into a long exposition, just to answer a question.

I think that's why the eyes of the masks are luminous.

[devout forum]

What's the point of void of memories like why everyday they show different memories of whales, crabs, mantas, krills, etc.......?

[celest birch]

Not just in the window, I also found one inside the Enchantment shop. :D

[tribal otter]

Actually, crabs are creatures of light. However, they are shown to be easily corruptible.
In the Wasteland and other infeceted areas, crabs are shown to be dusted with corruption. It looks like ash on their shells.

However, the crabs above the fire in the Wasteland do not have it, because they've been exposed to light. When you free them, they do not attack you.

[celest birch]

That´s the interesting thing: how and why would fragments from the Diamond of Eden have such memories and even different ones every time bits of it fall?

[tribal otter]

Also, any time we see them without the corruption on their shells, they are neutral to friendly.

[celest birch]

Not just them, the ones in the Office don´t have the Darkness bits on them as well, thus being neutral. :D

[devout forum]

I think yes

[tribal otter]

I believe the Eden Stone was once a giant power stone, which is further supported in the Two Embers trailer. However, power stones are created using light cores. For such a giant stone to be constructed, thousands of light cores would be needed. The pieces that come off the stone contain different corrupted cores.

[celest birch]

Exactly and honestly, I think that once it exploded (thus blowing away and potentially killing the Elders), it completely eradicated and consumed the King, which would answer why is it having memories in the first place. Why creatures in them, that would be due to how much light did that giant thing absorb.

[tribal otter]

Oh ye. The stone preserves it's memories. It probably remembers everything. It came to life through the cores and souls of trapped creatures, which might act as a hivemind. It's only purpose now is to consume more and more light, and corrupt all of Sky.

However, I do believe that the Stone can be destroyed. In fact, it's being destroyed as we play. Giant chunks are coming off of it, which we can eradicate. Eventually, it has to wear down.

[celest birch]

In that case, it´s very much a tragic type of "villain" if we can say so, lashing out due to all pain and suffering of the creatures (as well as what´s left of the King, as winged light inside memories implies that they´re actually not just "imprints", but rather fragments of the King that weren´t absorbed by the Diamond) trapped within ... and yet given how in Elders memory, we see 2 Children of Light hugging each other as 1 wl (allusion to what´s done after we die), it also seems that it´s not having a malicious will, but rather it´s wishing to stop, but it can´t due to its nature as a light-consumer in the first place. Fragments of repentant soul (+ souls of light cratures) trapped inside the great prison of darkstone.

[shadow trail]

This makes eden runs even more impactful for me

[celest birch]

Indeed and we can sort of see it as well when we go to the child of light after our deaths; they´re sitting on the ground, head lowered and once they see us, they offer us their hands ... almost as if asking for forgiveness.

[shadow trail]

Yes, however, I don't think it will EVER end unless something really monumental happens

[celest birch]

Yeah, unfortunately ... and it´s due to that, the King/Eden Elder is not around to be saved anymore.

He was literally eradicated and (mostly) consumed by the very Diamond he was having power over ... as we´re led to believe according to that one Eden mural.

[shadow trail]

The diamond has so many parallels to shin godzilla regarding its nature, it feels so much pain and yet can't do anything to relief it as its body goes against its will and it keeps adapting to the dangers the body faces

And of course keeps consuming light which keeps strengthening its body and heals the wounds

I wonder if elders at full power combined can contain it at all

[celest birch]

Yeah and given how original Godzilla used to be a metaphor of the nuclear threat/atomic bomb itself ... yeah, the Diamond of Eden could technically allude to that ever-present threat as well and what can potentially happen if all atomic bombs detonate at the same time over us. Instant extinction, good Eden. O_O

Honestly, I believe that at the start, they managed to, but once it consumed too much light from either creatures or heavens themselves, it went into a runaway chain reaction and soon became too powerful for Elders to contain directly. Honestly, as it is now, they´re only able to contain it via the great Gate to Eden that surrounds areas quite far below the peak.

[shadow trail]

Pretty much yeah

I wonder if a skykid can even rise to power to become an equal or stronger than the King

[upbeat notch]

Properly if it has like REALLY good connections to Megabird...OR if it becomes corrupt like the king

[tribal otter]

The King rose to power as he was the only person able to pass the trials, as well as his will to help the kingdom prosper. Also, he had a strong connection to the Megabird, like Imaginator said. Sky kids are kind of similar to the King. However, the elders chose Alef/Resh as king, and right now, the elders are not focused on that. Maybe if the Eden Stone is destroyed, it could possibly happen. But like you guys mentioned, it'd be really hard for it to be destroyed,

[celest birch]

Speaking of fireworks, I actually wonder from what they´re actually made of, since fireworks rockets from Days of Fortune leave behind colorful light for our candles.

Which could answer why they don´t leave smoke behind as well as not harming any light creatures. As for paper boats, given their color I´m so thinking that paper-thing might be more biodegradable than our own.

Since they, together with cranes, lanterns and gondolas, last just 2 days.

[celest birch]

You do get the Fireworks Staff from the Saluting Captain, a GW spirit ...

[spiral vault]

It was probably a signal flare

[quaint rune]

idk if this lore relevant or not but me and my friend realized that the wasteland elder's mask looks like the head of those giant light fish idk if its intentional or not but its a nice detail nonetheless

pls tell me im not crazy

[lucid bridge]

Ur not crazy I see a strong resemblance and I believe it is on purpose

[north bronze]

it's pretty common for cultures to base their armour and protective gear off of animals, or even use their hide

*pretty good catch

[oblique spoke]

“as mural has carved, they lured & captured the mantas inside the water chambers…..
with the infinite energy provided by light & dark stones, they ran tests & experiments on the poor things, sealed the mother darkness inside a chamber and tried to create a weaponized breed which can both fly and dive.” — Would this be the origin of Krills ? 😶‍🌫️

Krills act more like a machine, than living creature ngl tho

[north bronze]

yep

[north bronze]

the similarities are pretty uncanny
-4 horns in the proper locations
-the top splitting off into 2 pointed tips
-the mouth guard
-the diamond shape in the middle

[quaint rune]

considering other elders also have masks that resemble something it does make sense in a way

[north bronze]

yeah i was literally just thinking that hahaha,
-Isle - Boat
-Prairie - Butterfly Jar
-Forest - Refined Darkstone

it makes sense that the Wasteland Elder is based off of something too

i'm not too sure about the Vault Elder's headpiece

either way it's a really cool find and not one that i've seen

[quaint rune]

for the vault i was thinking it could resemble some sort of tablet with symbols on it or smth like that ya know since its all about knowledge and stuff

[north bronze]

yeah makes sense, the only thing the Vault is known for really is memory cubes, and it doesn't really look like one of those

[quaint rune]

ya

[tribal otter]

There's actually abyss images to support that theory. They got removed from the actual game tho

[oblique spoke]

there was ?!?

[tribal otter]

Yeah; the Vault is a place of learning. The letters on Lamed's mask are a kind of cuneiform tho I can't interpret it. Cuneiform was usually carved on tablets, which were often either records of knowledge.

[tribal otter]

Yes; here's the pictures
I'm pretty sure beta images are allowed in here as long as they don't contain spoilers for future events and seasons

Observe; the first image shows scholars or scientist draining the light of either a whale or an ancient manta, and its eggs. The light is taken and inserted into power diamonds. In the second picture, it shows the drained eggs hatching, corruption haven taken root in the offspring. They look obviously like krill, and they chase away the scholars, who abandon and seal the facility

[north bronze]

i would hope that pre-established lore, beta or not, would be allowed in the lore channel

[tribal otter]

Ye
Any thoughts?

[tribal otter]

Oh yeah, you can definitely tell that the Forest Temple was a factory. It was even duplicated in the Wasteland, where you first encounter a krill. However, I call the red shards darkstone, and the diamonds power diamonds. The ore that they mine from the forest i just call power diamond shell. You can call it anything you like; we're talking about the same thing. Doesn't really change the fact that crystals were there.

I'm also one of the people that think that power diamonds use the cores of creatures of Light. It's pretty much explained in concept art

As for the oil, I think that the corruption has simply been rooted to the ground, whether from rain or shard events.

Sorry, I just don't know how what you're talking about relates to the topic of Krills

[oblique spoke]

now ik why its removed

[spiral vault]

all the elder masks are based on their specific traits

[oblique spoke]

make sense. But the krills were later used as war machines against the rebellions (when you charge the activator and temple’s gate opens, 3 krills came out of the sand and fly all their way to meet at the gate entrance). And there’re some flying around the way to Eden as well. It feels like the king’s followers already known how to make ‘em to obey the commands and to serve them.