lore-discussion-spoilers

[stable roost]

Wait so krills are called dark dragons... So originally they must have been called light dragons, right?

[lyric imp]

Yeah, i mean Jenova doesn't know how the uncorrupted krills look like bc they may have not been invented yet

[rugged stump]

i have an old theory i had after watching some light awaits footage, the world of cotl looks like it's made from destroyed parts of the light awaits world. it's smaller but many key parts are there. for example the isle beginning gate, or the pond in forest that previously had the bird with the constellation.

[lusty merlin]

i think that's just beta to live changes

[nimble ingot]

That is how the theory goes, yes.

Krill is a fan name for them. TGC adopted the name since they do resemble burned shrimp.
Their canon name is Dark Dragons.

Ergo, it would make sense for their uncorropted counterpart to be Light Dragons.

[stable roost]

Or just dragon

[rugged stump]

i know it's a stretch but it kind of looks like it

[nimble ingot]

Or just burned sashimi

[lusty merlin]

thats pretty much how game development goes though, most times they keep terrain the same, but they also change things where needed before officially releasing a game globally

[tough sky]

That might be interesting, I'm always a bit uncomfortable with using beta content but sometimes it could be interesting

The name of the game changed since Light Awaits so it could be considered a previous version of the world, almost nothing we're theorising about is absolutely canon anyway and is up for interpretation so we can use anything we want to create our own version of the canon

[lyric imp]

In regards to krill formation, take a look at the leviathan.
It formed from the manta centipede and while it greatly changes, it still resembles a whale. Crabs, after getting corrupted, are essentially still crabs. It could be argued that during transformation, creatures can change shape, but not their fundamental bidy structure - light dragons were probably crustaceans, too

[stable roost]

What if it was a baby light dragon in the trailer? Not the adult version?
We just don't know enough to fully decide on this matter.

[lyric imp]

We don't have enough info to fully decide on anything. This is just my inference that corrupted creatures probably don't change the taxonomic group based on the 2 cases we have so far

[rugged stump]

ok so what we definitely CAN'T treat as canon?

[lyric imp]

Hahahaha

[tough sky]

Using babies as a method of transporation seems a bit uneffective, especially considering how long they would become. They are also similar in width (is it a word I can use here), krill are way longer though

[tough sky]

I didn't say we should, I said we could. I don't like it even though it could be interesting

I have seen barely anything about Light Awaits anyway

[rugged stump]

nono, I want to know what we just absolutely can't treat as even technically being canon

[lyric imp]

Imo there are even ways to make sense of questlines being done by many people, but probably dailies, daily cakes and hearts are not canon. I'm not sure about anything else

[tough sky]

Oh ok, my bad, I would say we can treat anything as technically canon as long as it had been part of the game or close enough (promotional images, trailers)

What polish said too

[rugged stump]

so is there a possibility for concept art to be canon?

[lyric imp]

Possibility, yeah. Though i think some things are just ideas and if there are not in the end attempts to implement them, it means they aren't meant to be a part of the sky universe

[nimble ingot]

I say it is possible.
Since they are made by the devs, whose comments we consider canon.

[tough sky]

I'm not sure, but for those things (concept art and beta) I don't think it matters too much anyway, if we consider it canon it doesn't really have an impact anymore, things that are specifically meant to be changed (concepts for the Elder for example, the only thing we could consider canon is what has been chosen to be in the game)

[nimble ingot]

30% of the lore we have came from concept in any case.

Namely, the elders' placeholder names.

[stable roost]

What are the most crazy theories that you heard that can't be easily brushed off?

[lyric imp]

the rabbis disagree on the issue

[lusty merlin]

as sombody who draw's and wants to be a concept artist i dont think concept art should be taken as canon or not be used as a baseline for thories. Because at the end of the day what we see are concepts. Which is cool to see what couldve been added, yet if something major that wouldv'e change the story was scrapped, its for a reason

[lyric imp]

Which is also why iirc devs explicitly said the names aren't canon and are now used by the community for convenience and fun

[nimble ingot]

The lore is open to interpretation.

The convo can go a lot of ways, and there is no need to cleave hairs over art.

Is it canon? -It's up to your interpretation
Is it not? - It's up to your interpretation.

Take it, leave it?
We are all here to give our 2 cents on the lore.

[tough sky]

I wouldn't use concept art in teorycrafting (unless a part of it can strengthen an already exhisting argument maybe) but it could be considered

Things that have been explicitely said to be non canon are not canon too ofc

[lyric imp]

This. We think what is canon, but we're not considering which features have been canonically revoked to deliberately not be a part of the sky lore

[nimble ingot]

Concept art is part of the process in making the game (or any production for that matter)

For theory writing, concept art does not an end all, be all. It does however give strong indicators on where the game was heading from a visual standpoint.

[rugged stump]

so any explanation for the concept forest elder mask being above the gate? and why does the first mask from the last season look straight up like an actual Bionicle G2 mask?

[lusty merlin]

easter egg ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[nimble ingot]

The old forest elder mask on the temple is an easter egg reference to the concept art and versions of the character model during development.

[lyric imp]

It's similar in hollow knight. They sometimes forget to change it in the final release

[tough sky]

What we consider canon in the game is up to interpretation, but it will also probaly change as new seasons are added, some conceptsz will be used, others not. We can use some pieces of concept art as arguments for now but myabe later it won't be possible

It has been my experience as a Zelda theorycrafter at least

[lyric imp]

(it's a feature, not a bug!)

[nimble ingot]

The lore has certainly changed over the seasons (literally and figuratively)

[nimble ingot]

seriously though, I would not report these relics as bugs.
It would be sad to see these removed for no good reason.

(take bird shrines as an example. rip)

[lyric imp]

Ikik, it's a game development-related insight joke of a kind. Just bc sth was unintentional, doesn't mean it has to be deleted

[nimble ingot]

Agreed.
Just stating this for general sake.

I should have clarified it was not directed at a person 😅

[tough sky]

I have to go to sleep now

I hope I can see you here tomorrow again but with timezones, it's very unlikely

[lyric imp]

Goodnight

[nimble ingot]

Rest well everyone

[sharp lichen]

Season of Performance came after the Eden explosion

[rugged stump]

this can't be a coincidence

[stable roost]

Hmmm.. that's interesting

[sharp lichen]

Oh wait that was created by me

One crazy thing I’ve heard is that the final Abyss cutscene is us replacing the old memory in which Cannoneer actually died and saving them

[earnest briar]

The onicle who is bi?

[earnest briar]

We saved over the old file where their death happened

[stable roost]

I like the theory that skykids are secretly androids.

The craziest theory that i heard is that players are in fact reincarnation of the king atoning for his sin. It's would be kinda cool but i don't know if there is anything that could support this theory

Is there any connection to the "real world"?
Friend constellations are based off irl constellation. This make me think about 4th wall breaking games. What if skykids are machines that we the players can interact with the world of sky to help recover the world of sky?

[sharp lichen]

Do you know where the theory came from?

[hushed steeple]

O_O
I think all the ones I can remember were either made by me or have already been said.

[sharp lichen]

As for the king reincarnation theory, it’s a very common one. After all, Sky has had two main friend constellations that both show the Eden Elder in some way

As of the meta thing, I’m not really sure. Skykids are “”androids”” in the sense that they’re non-biological, but their creation seems to be more natural than artificial. Obviously, the lines are blurred

However, I will say adding meta knowledge to a game with its own internal lore is more confusing than anything

[rugged stump]

or just bio-mechanical. like Bionicle. and the elements. and light. AND masks.

[earnest briar]

I've got no idea my fellow gamer, tho I do remember sharing an idea that was something along the lines of because we were in a void similar to the Pity Room/Eden death room (and later Shattering memories) that at that moment we were existing in a more metaphysical state and could perform actions we usually couldn't, in this case being able to change history so that Cannoneer survived their encounter with old Levi and escaped.

[cunning umbra]

hey guys random question but does the Eden Elder have a name other then just being the king?

[nimble ingot]

Uncanonically, they would be called Resh (or Alef if you are talking about the Prince of Sky)

[sharp lichen]

They have many, but none are canon. They are ascribed by the community based on how they appear

Prince, Storm, One, Resh are some

[fleet summit]

What is eden’s story?

[earnest briar]

Diamond go boom, Eden is now hell

[nimble ingot]

They were the King. The King was not the best at being a ruler. Darkness came and everything went down as well as the hindenburg in a thunderstorm.

[cunning umbra]

thank you i just wanted to know so i could add something about that to a description of a ridicules theory that's not supposed to be taken seriously

[fleet summit]

What about the lovely nice krills why do they attack moths?

[earnest briar]

They are very hangry but also have no object permanence.

[cunning umbra]

they lack light themselves so they eat it

[fleet summit]

Ohhh

[earnest briar]

If you hide from them they'll look around like 'Where'd they go?' for a moment and then move on. It's honestly funny and a little endearing. At least as much as a giant threatening burnt shrimp can be endearing.

[stable roost]

I would love it to be 4th wall breaking...
In 7 days of sky they said they were considering having a transition from real world to world of sky.. oh god I'm a sucker for stories like this.

There is this Japanese game that had this setup we would control a robot and halfway through the game we are bombed with information that the residents wanted outside help and we in the other universe were the only ones that could help.

It totally makes sense if you consider that the world of sky is just skykids and spirits. If we consider them androids controlled by players that are called for help from other world. Spirits can't really bring the light and everyone is dead so it is up to us to save them.

Thanks for listening to my rambling. 🙏

[fleet summit]

So they’re just big chucks of shrimp fat flying around eating peoples but ts?

[earnest briar]

I would like to introduce you to OneShot and the Bravely Default series. OneShot can be summed up as 'Cat has to replace a lightbulb' and the Bravely Default series can be summed up as 'Great music, characters doing depraved things, fairies are sus (except for when they're not), and some of the raddest final bosses I have ever seen'.

[keen shore]

They eat our light actually, but what you describe is much funnier and I wish it was true

[earnest briar]

Seriously go listen to the final boss themes they are incredible.

[rugged stump]

i spent way too much time on this but it was worth it

[stable roost]

Love bionicles

[tough sky]

I was gonna sleep but I went for a last time

And yes I have to agree

I finished OneShot a few days ago I cried so much

The last time I cried this much was when I finished Bravely Second for similar reasons

Now I will sleep, good night or day or whatever it is where you are

[rugged stump]

out of context but wth is this emote

[hushed steeple]

No context…

Ominous

SKY IS REOPENED!!!!!

[earnest briar]

Have you done the Yoko side-content? Considering you-know-who appears in it and his new job I like to think that he just has Love's Vagrant emanating from him when on the job that acts as both a proximity indication and a warning. The louder it is the closer he is.

[raw crypt]

Excitedly awaiting the rest of the info cards so i can update things, but ouhghgh i love all the new spirits so much!!

[hushed steeple]

I wonder what this cloud spot could be! Probably just a mistake. Right?/j/s

[ivory vortex]

this is absolutely wonderful I love it

[hushed steeple]

Uhm… what is the lore reason of why they are herw.

[lusty merlin]

just wanna jam togeather

[fervent holly]

In the patch notes:

Feeling nostalgic, the rock wandered back to Isle of Dawn to sleep under the stars of their original home. Little did they know, the quiet expanse was about to become very popular. One night the rock woke to the sound of countless little feet, fluttering capes, and honking Sky kids. Somehow hundreds, even thousands of Sky kids had arrived to help out a group of young Spirits. At last the crowd began to clear, and the rock was surprised to see a Spirit who could roll around. They were almost as fast as the rock as they taught others to roll...maybe the rock and the Spirit could have a friendly race?

I've rolled all over the Isle to see if I could discover something new. Here's what I found out: || rolling is very amusing. ||

[lyric imp]

Bc of there being paintings of red crystal?

[tough sky]

I have
I have done every side quest in Bravely Second, all of them except the very last one in Bravely Default (too hard, one day though)
And I haven't finished Bravely Default II yet

[tough sky]

I didn’t see the tone indicators I was going to answer seriously

[tough sky]

I remembered something about yesterday's discussion
We said that the light dragons were probably crustaceans in appearance because the corrupted crabs still look like crabs
But crabs are not light creatures
It would make sense if the dark dragons are more different to the light dragon than the uncorrupted crabs are to the regular crabs

[lyric imp]

If that's the case, why do we assume normal dragons have to be light creatures instead of neutral?

[tough sky]

Because the only flying creatures we see are light creatures and dark dragons?

Also they can be found in Eden, that's pure speculation ofc but if they were there before they were corrupted, them being light creatures would make sense

[hushed steeple]

I have done some unintentional research and have discovered you can play with them!!!!

The only downside to this is that the daily music sheet challenge is now unplayable.

[lyric imp]

And all crustaceans that aren't dark creatures are not light creatures either

I have a suspicion that light creatures generally die when they lose their light, while neutral just become dark creatures

Which is why there are lots of corpses of animals rather than lots of species of dark animals. I also suspect that the manta centipede mutated and stopped being the light creature over time, which let it survive without its light and let it become the leviathan

[lyric imp]

How?

[hushed steeple]

Just pull out your instrument when they do.

[lyric imp]

Oh

It seems to me that this channel is close to a discord counterpart of the vault of knowledge

[earnest briar]

If the Vault of Knowledge made jokes about the Wasteland Elder having the worst life ever, discussed who of their kind would have what animal as their fursona completely seriously, and calls Isle Elder Peepaw then yes, I suppose we are.

[rugged stump]

thank you

[nimble ingot]

My take is they needed help with their instruments.
Getting them in tune, fixing any off strings and the like.

[sharp lichen]

Yes, and the instruments of other seasons

[sharp lichen]

Don’t forget being Italian!

[lyric imp]

Why do we assume that the instruments in the world of sky came to be during respective seasons? Imo it may have been that they just became available to players at that points

[hushed steeple]

Mama mia!!!
WAAAaAaAaaaAAAAaaaaa!!!!!!

[sharp lichen]

Because we see them being used/carried by the spirits themselves

[hushed steeple]

Before Eden exploded, the ancestors had their instruments. Then they died with them. When a new season becomes available, we suddenly have access to those spirits and thus their instruments.

Also, I believe that this set piece for Eden was likely made before the explosion seeing as the diamond is a lot more blue/purple or glows white/yellow similarly to the vault set piece. Also there are no rocks flying all about. It’s possible Eden’s atmosphere was red even before the explosion, possibly even due to the time of day we see it at.

It’s also possible that these set pieces were made/finished post mortem.

[sharp lichen]

But there are rocks flying off the edge

[hushed steeple]

Also, it appears that the performance ancestors were able to craft instruments so perhaps the instruments in harmony hall are duplicates of commissions they made and put up as examples for possible customers.

[earnest briar]

Hello lorechat I come with an idea. So Eden is also referred to as Storm in concept art where the realms are named after times of the day, right? However! What do we see right after dying in Stormlock but before getting sent to the void? The moon being eclipsed. Therefore I propose the idea of an alternative name for Eden called Eclipse.

[hushed steeple]

The only thing I can relate to what you’re think of are the bits of the castle organized neatly below the other floating tip of the castle.

[hushed steeple]

Wait, do you think Eclipse was a time of day for the Kingdom of Sky? It appears in the passage quest in prairie caves!!!
That could explain why Eden might be red and why we’re able to wait for an eclipse in passage!!

[earnest briar]

It would also make sense metaphorically because Eden is full of darkness, AKA the light is permanently eclipsed.

[sharp lichen]

But it’s also possible that the Harmony Hall made replicas of instruments that already existed in the Sky world

[hushed steeple]

True.

[lyric imp]

I sometimes see my friend carry or use guitar, but i'm pretty sure the existence of guitar preceeds his birth

[lyric imp]

You seem to assume that there can be only 1 instrument of each kind. Am i getting you correctly?

[sharp lichen]

Here’s how I think instruments worked:

-They were created and used by the spirits
-Harmony Hall replicated the instruments
-Spirits die
-We now get to buy the instruments from the spirits

[weary gale]

Anyone know the lore so far? :0

[hushed steeple]

I geresting, thanks to all of you who answered 😄

[tacit sentinel]

What is this????

[earnest briar]

Pretty sure that's Vault

[keen shore]

That’s the Eden temple! Hold on let me get you a better picture

You can see it here too, listed among the other temples in the isle temple. It’s basically Eden’s elder temple (like how the other realms have) although evidence suggests that instead of any one elder it was for all the elders and maybe the Light as well

You fly past it on your way to orbit as well; it’s visible right as you leave the mountain (since it’s located on the peak)

[tacit sentinel]

But it’s only seen there and the isle temple

[keen shore]

Yep!

[sharp lichen]

All of it? No, but here’s a summary with some of it: https://docs.google.com/document/d/12XSkaMV_5UYG-an_Qo37ItyKP6GaqBBA6iRqBVE2qck/edit

[tough sky]

Most of it is up to interpretation so knowing all of it is probably not possible

[tough sky]

We don't know how they were, maybe that's what they said at the time

[sharp lichen]

But why not try to learn all?

[tough sky]

And then? If you know all you don't have anything to learn anymore

[earnest briar]

Though it would be great to one day have a full and complete understanding of all of the lore of Sky, I think at least some amount of ambiguity is good for the game. Because that means we'll have people getting inspired to create their own ideas, theories, and interpretations. Ambiguity inspires creativity, and creativity inspires connection.

[tough sky]

Exactly
Having confirmations for theories and interpretations can be nice, but in a game like Sky where practically everything we know is interpretation of vague elements, having anything confirmed defeats the point of interpreting things

[plucky barn]

Does anyone know what the big fish guy in the bottom of treasure reef is?

[tough sky]

The leviathan?

We think it might be a corrupted light creature as we see a long light creature on a mural

[plucky barn]

Oh it’s a leviathan awesome

It’s very intimidating

[tough sky]

I mean we call it the leviathan

Like we call dark dragons krills

I think its official name is the Abyss Monster

[hushed steeple]

Today’s lore chat word of the day is:
Expound!!!
Can you say expound?
Ex-pound
Yayyyy!!! You did it!!! You did it, right? You better have…
Expound means:
Present and explain(a theory or idea)systematically and in detail.
Yayyyy!!!
We did it!!! Now we know what expound means!!!

don’t forget it………

||I dunno, I’ll just slap on a /hj for this I guess.||

Ok, remember how we were talking about the forest cave painting a while ago? I just remembered that there are boats with jars on the opposite side of it.
Also, the forest cavern is filled with boat remains and jars, the jars we open all have butterflies in them.
It’s also worth mentioning how strange it actually is for butterflies to just be in a cavern rather than in like a field or forest full of flowers. The only thing that cave is growing is fungus and mushrooms.

[plucky barn]

Does it attack you the same as krill if you get too close?

[hushed steeple]

Have you finished the abyss quests?

[earnest briar]

Only during the last Abyss Quest. Afterwards, no. It just swims around minding it's own business.

[plucky barn]

Oooh okay I got scared when it came closer I thought I was gonna get got

[earnest briar]

You basically just made it decide you taste terrible and now it leaves you alone because of that.

[plucky barn]

Pffft

[hushed steeple]

Ah yes, the old covering yourself in a base and waiting for the creature to take a taste test!!!

[plucky barn]

My favourite test works 95% of the time

[hushed steeple]

Why was the other 5%?
(I assure you there is no typo here.)

[plucky barn]

I keep getting blocked when I type something

[hushed steeple]

Oh no.

[plucky barn]

Do you have a favourite part of The lore?

[hushed steeple]

I dunno, probably the wild life.

So, you can make the visiting spirits play other songs!!!

#screenshots-and-videos message

[tough sky]

Is the Wind Paths a valid answer here?

It has some paths to so many different areas
I remember reading somewhere (probably in this channel 6 months ago when I arrived and was too shy to say anything here) that the inhabitants of the Wind Paths might have been from different realms or something ans have migrated there

Also it is in its own realm on the map

It's my favourite area from my favourite seasons with my favourite spirits

[hushed steeple]

The flight guide was Prairie Elder’s apprentice and is about 4ft 6

So I haven't played since the Season of Prophecy and I'm confused on why there is darkness seeping into the other realms, like the Valley 😭

What's the lore behind that?

[nimble ingot]

That came from Season of Shattering.

It expanded on the lore of the Eden Diamond exploding and spreading Darkness in the realms.
Cleansing the Darkness from the red ones seemingly release a memory fragment that you can enter and find winged light.
The guide of the season was a spectral version of the Eden Diamond ♦️ =

[hushed steeple]

Okay thank you!

[tough sky]

They're tiny!

[sharp lichen]

Also, keep in mind Valley always had darkness

[sharp lichen]

Mine is the Season of Shattering. So much new things and such a great, lore-filled season

[plucky barn]

I missed that season what happened?

[tough sky]

I didn’t do it during and I am a little lost about it too

[lucid egret]

What are the elder’s names?

[tough sky]

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[nimble ingot]

elder name list: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[lucid egret]

Thank you!!

Fostering a moth and they wanted to know about the lore :3c
They got majorly excited when I sent the lore doc, is there another one with a more in-depth lore explanation?

[nimble ingot]

There are some in the pinned messages.

For concept art, I suggest starting with Tom Zhao.

[weary gale]

Oh cool! Thank ya!

[sharp lichen]

No, if you want to know a specific question, then ask here

[sharp lichen]

Uhh summarizing it would be extremely long

So I have a video instead: #promote-your-sky-content message

[plucky barn]

Thank you!

[lucid egret]

Thank you! Wanted to pass on the lore knowledge to my moth who’s not in this server <3

[earnest briar]

The Eden Diamond decided one day that it hated everything and started tossing giant death rocks everywhere. Said death rocks have time capsules inside.

[hushed steeple]

How to kill a geologist…/j

AHA!!!
Either the Kingdom of Sky has different dialects, or this is confirmation of other civilizations!!!!!

(IT AUTO CORRECTED EITHER TO ESTHER!!!!!)

[tough sky]

Maybe the different calls are accents?

The realms are probably distant enough so that they have different expressions

Maybe not dialects

But expressions

[hushed steeple]

Wait, they’re wearing different pants here than in the initial spirit reveal promo!!!!

[earnest briar]

Today we meet Jolly Geologist:

🥾 Has planned this Prairie Peaks trip for YEARS
🪨 Gives names and personalities to their favorite rocks
🗣️ Hobby: Using local sayings wherever they travel
🚫 Dislikes skipping stones on water—what a waste of a perfectly good stone!

[hushed steeple]

Those are confirmed to be imitations of different light creatures. It’s been seen in forgetful story teller, nightbird whisperer, and the title of [insert creature] whisperer.

[earnest briar]

Jolly Geologist my beloved I too, love cool rocks

[hushed steeple]

We know…
I beat you!!/j

[tough sky]

Anywhere I go, I will probably bring a rock back

Or two

Or ten

[hushed steeple]

So, we have a mystery here!
We no longer know which pants Jolly Geologist will be wearing!!!

Reassuring Ranger: whistling while skipping stones

Jolly Geologist: Hey there- wait Wait WAITWAITWAIT DONT THROW THA-

Reassuring Ranger: accidentally finishes the motion of tossing the “stone”
Uhhhh, whoops. That wa’n’t any of ‘em valerble rocks was it?

Jolly Geologist: siiuuuggghhhhhhhh
It was a very very rare form of opal.

[plucky barn]

Could it be compared to the shards that we get every so often now? Like those red rocks n stuff

[nimble ingot]

The first was their dancing clothes. The other is their work clothes /hj

[tough sky]

That's exactly that
The shards come from the Season of Shattering

[plucky barn]

Ooooh I see I see

[hushed steeple]

I just realized, in one image they have the pendant and the skull has no jagged teeth like structures. In the other they have no pendant and the jaw has pointy teeth looking structures.
Also one of the images the cloth thing is pleated.
ALSO ALSO THEIR SHOES ARE DIFFERENT!!

[earnest briar]

Yes, those are the same thing. Shards were much more frequent during Shattering, landing about every two hours every day. Though the flying red rocks during red shards were added I believe about halfway to 3/4ths through the Season to spice up the difficulty. And spice up the difficulty they did.

[mellow sleet]

Different interpretations of the same outfit perhaps

[plucky barn]

Thank you for explaining! I’m glad there’s a lore chat here so I can find out about stuff I’ve missed

[frigid tinsel]

People can have multiple pants

[median onyx]

Can someone explain sky lore in Simple terms I’ve played it but I don’t get how the spirits died

[tough sky]

We don't see spirits having multiple outfits most of the time though
And as Esther said later, their are a few other differences

[earnest briar]

No problem! Glad I could help. Lorechat can definitely get silly sometimes, but we try our best to help when someone has questions about Sky’s story.

[cobalt palm]

Raw darkstone
#news message

[frigid tinsel]

It depends on the individual, but many likely died due to consequences of the Eden calamity or the war

[frigid tinsel]

Mmm, tasty mineral

[cobalt palm]

Tastes like salt, and death

[earnest briar]

I think it tastes like blue raspberry.

[cobalt palm]

That is an S tier flavour imho

What if its blue raspberry icecream
That's what the TGC streams have been trying to discover this whole time with the most important question

[tough sky]

You shouldn't eat rocks

I don't think it's safe

[lyric imp]

How do you mnow they were his apprentice, Esther?

[hushed steeple]

Their info card said so.
Also, everything in Sky is agender./lh

[hushed steeple]

Right, you should sniff them instead. Mmmmmmmm
Rock smell.
GASP
Rock Candols!!!!!

[lyric imp]

Assuming shattering guide is canon, a major revelation in shattering was that the diamond has some kind of spirit of its own. Maybe it's connected to the king and there are his memories, but it's also kind of possible that the diamond is outright a sentient being

[tepid veldt]

jolly geologist is so silly
though i wonder where theyre from, the wording from the first bullet point makes it seem like they arent from the peaks

[hushed steeple]

Diamond: Do not destroy the ecosystem and start a war!

The king: imma go commence the Industrial Revolution and start arguments amongst the peoples of different regions!

Diamond: I SAID NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
E X P L O D E S/I M P L O D E S

[hushed steeple]

None of them are from peaks. They’re all campers/explorers and it was stated they discovered this place.

[tepid veldt]

whoops, my bad ~~as always, i cant read ~~

[lyric imp]

Is it confirmed that it was by a choice of the king that the industrial revolution started?

[hushed steeple]

That was a joke

[earnest briar]

You know, Nightbird Whisperer's attire reminds me of the Assembly Scouts. Do you think they might be a Scout who graduated?

[lyric imp]

stares in autism
I thought it was a joke inspired by legit lore. Ok, sorry

[frigid tinsel]

In Zhao concepts, it is stated that the king found darkstone and heralded the kingdom through its industrial era, however many things have changed from that conceptual phase to the current iteration of the game, including the role of the king

Some people take concepts as canon, but without in-game evidence supporting it, concepts are concepts, not canon

[lyric imp]

Who's Zhao? A dev?

[earnest briar]

Concept artist.

[frigid tinsel]

Tom Zhao is a former concept artist for TGC. He left TGC before Sky was released

[lyric imp]

The origin of the king is now seemingly related to trials since prophecy, but do we know then where the diamond came from?

[frigid tinsel]

I say Chosen One to differentiate the skykid(?) who is depicted completing the Prophecy Trials from the king of concept art as the Trials are not in those Zhao concepts.

There is the mural in Eden showing said Chosen One with the Eden diamond, so they have some relation, but the specifics are uninown. The murals makes it look like the Eden diamond was a welcomed thing. Now the Eden diamond is screwed up and Chosen One is very much gone so

[lyric imp]

Origin unknown, then. It's a little annoying since it seems to kind of pop out of nowhere, whereas there should be a whole tale related to it. Imo a bit of a wasted potential for shattering

[frigid tinsel]

The Eden mural appeared in the Shattering update and Shattering depicted the consequences of the diamond, well, shattering, not how it was formed

[lyric imp]

Fair, but sad nonetheless

[tough sky]

We don't know the reason why the Diamond shattered do we?

It would be weird if we did but I may have missed some things

[hushed steeple]

Season of Glueing where the sky kids take the shards of the diamond and glue them back together with Frantic Stagehand’s new super duper extra magnificent 100000x stronger than Stagehand’s signature krill glue but now with sparkles glue!!!/j

[frigid tinsel]

You can figure out how the Eden diamond was made picking at the clues we gain in game. For instance, Abyss directly confirmed that light creatures were used to make power diamonds, mantas hunted as shown in Aurora and captured in Forest Elder’s temple. We also know darkstone was mined from the ground. So presumably the Eden diamond was made from combining a lot of darkstone and light creatures. There’s another idea that the Eden diamond was made from a huge chunk of darkstone that already existed within the Eden mountain that was then charged with the light of light creatures.

[lyric imp]

Or shards were only introduced as a mechanic in shattering but canonically they have always been a thing

[frigid tinsel]

At best, we have the Shattering poems, here: #lore-discussion-spoilers message

[lyric imp]

To me the last idea sounds the most compelling. Ho cdo we know the diamonds in abyss murals were ppwer diamonds rather than darkstone being charged? Or do we have reasons to believe power diamonds is just charged darkstone?

[lusty merlin]

They’re the same thing, I feel if they were just charging the abyss murals would still show a manta beside the power diamond but it’s gone

[frigid tinsel]

Yes, shards were introduced as a mechanic in Shattering, but fun fact, in the Shattering Q&A (image 1) it’s stated that the devs always wanted shard eruptions from the start of the game’s development but they didn’t have the technology for it until recently.

Otherwise, we don’t know why the Eden diamond shattered in the first place, why it stopped, and why it began again. There’s a hint in the Season of Shattering intro blog (image 2) that the memories of the past became too much for the mountain to bear, hence Eden erupting again, but as with Sky lore, is vague

I’ve seen the ideas tossed around from pre-existing structural weakness, the death of the Eden Elder, sabotage, damage after construction, light’s need to ascend, being overpowered by the Eden beam.

I’ve likened the Eden diamond to that of a black hole, so it’s breaking could be analogous to how black holes form, the death of a supermassive star collasping from its own mass

[lyric imp]

Here's how i interpret it: mantas' light was extracted to charge the darkstone gems, but mantas were fused to let them survive the extraction and to be able to extract more in the end, eventually leading to the creation of the manta centipede, aka proto-leviathan. I'm not sure whether we should consider power diamonds to be charged darkstone gems, especoally if the shape doesn't add up

[frigid tinsel]

Here is how I see distinguish it:

Darkstone — raw material mined from the ground, seen as the blue chunks in the Treasure Reef mine or pointed crystals.
Power Diamonds — the octadahedrons that given light act as batteries/power sources, which darkstone is refined into.
Darkstone Technology — any technology or mechanisms that uses power diamonds to function, like the Vault elevator or most multiplayer doors.
Corrupted Darkstone — red crystals that actively suck out light. Includes red shards.

[pastel brook]

Where did the spirits get their clothing material from? I'm too shy to ask them..

[lyric imp]

Ok i used the terms wrong. Thanks

[frigid tinsel]

People tend to use “darkstone” and “power diamonds” interchangeably, hence the confusion

[lyric imp]

I just say darkstone gems, usually

[frigid tinsel]

Game started using “crystals,” it’s all ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[lyric imp]

Ok, i have some insights regarding this.
It seems to suggest the red diamond in eden has some sort of human feelings, meaning it makes sense if it's a season guide since whatever's inside is fundamentally kinda good. The diamond might be corrupted by darkness and suffering because of it. Furthermore, it may be connected to the fact that within void of shattering there was ancient darkness and ancient light
PS: why did we get child of owo role

[frigid tinsel]

looks like mods changed the child of light role, which everyone who participates in the server has. they do that from time to time. hopefully won't last long

[lyric imp]

Hm ok

[frigid tinsel]

It seems to suggest the red diamond in eden has some sort of human feelings
I hold the idea that light is connected with soul, meaning light carries emotions and thoughts. all beings of light are sentient and conscious to some capacity. therefore the Eden diamond, full of light from various light creatures, may have become conscious. it's kinda like the cluster from Steven Universe. the Void of Shattering may be a manifestation of that.

there was ancient darkness and ancient light
yea, like, obviously darkness became more prominent in the world due to the consequences of the kingdom's industrial pollution, but the fact that there is ancient darkness suggests that darkness has always existed in the world to some capacity and that darkness is a natural force as much as light is. if there was a balance of light and darkness or there simply wasn't as much darkness before the industrial age, the darkness pollution upset that balance to a devastating consequence.

[placid bronze]

Does anyone else think the main journey of sky kids takes place in a day? When I played through sky the first time I saw that the time of day changed in each realm, I don’t think this matters that much, but I like the idea that the story of sky take place in a day

[tough sky]

That's interesting
I never really thought about it since it is mostly permanent

But we do see time passing in the Season of Passage

[placid bronze]

Well yeah, but before the season of passage I always felt like it’s a cool thing to think about

I think I’m caught up on the lore, but I don’t get the deal with the Eye of Eden, what happened there for it to impact the kingdom of sky so much

[hushed steeple]

I was typing a whole thing on the old balance of dark and light but forgot to copy it and now it’s gone.
WHOOOSH
So I’ll give a simplified version of it!

I see the ancient dark and light as a balance of an ecosystem.
Dark would be things like natural disasters, disease, creature kills creature, species invading through wandering, that stuff.
And light would have been life in general as well as the defense/attack. It would be things like natural disasters changed the environment but now theres new opportunities for weaker creatures and more opportunities for biodiversity, a creature is invading an ecosystem but this allows for more food for creatures that evolve to eat it or maybe the invader was beneficial(like fire ants in the US kinda), things like that.
Light feeds the dark and dark strengthens the light.

[pastel brook]

I have a theory that the spirits never learned how to make the wheel. Too many flying boats!

[hushed steeple]

Time canonically moves in Sky, the reason it doesn’t do so in game is due to the theme of time of day for each realm as well as meshes not really working with Sky’s shaders with becomes obvious when you look around during a shard eruption/event.
It also seems as though Prairie Peaks is going to have in game naturally progressing time, which is REALLY cool!!!

[placid bronze]

I saw the area in beta and it looks beautiful, also, I’m sure time moves in sky, my theory was just that at least maybe the first time you play through the game, it takes place in a day 🤷🏻‍♂️

[placid bronze]

That’s pretty funny thinking that the realms of sky were too advanced to make a wheel

[hushed steeple]

I know, I was replying to someone else.

[placid bronze]

Oh my bad, anyways, what are your theories about sky

[nimble ingot]

spirits be spoiled with magic fuel technology.
Wonder if this could be an analogy of the ancestors relying on the technology so much, it became their undoing.

We see the diamond used so much in boats, and architecture. And yet the thing that is destroying Eden is the very diamond tech the ancestors were using to hold up whole cities.

[nimble ingot]

Time moving in the game has been subtly used. Namely in the progress of a realm, you see the sun move. Or the sunset event in Sanctuary.

Please take care not to talk about beta things in the channels outside of beta.
Commenting on it may be included when they hint at things that are not yet in the live game.

[placid bronze]

Oh, sorry, I saw an instagram post about the new place so I thought I could already talk about it

[nimble ingot]

rip, Esther.

I like the analogy here.
Something like a yin yang balance in sky.
Darkness may have negative elements (death, decay and the like), but there is also a beauty and necissity to it that allows the cycle to continue.
It is interesting the Light is seen as a positive element, and the flame represents life. Yet fire can also be destructive.

These two halves feed into each other.
One cannot exist without the other.

Sorry to hear the rest of your theory was stolen by bobbits.

[placid bronze]

Woah, I thought Eden was the cause of destruction, never realized how much it was actually affected

[hushed steeple]

WHY DID I READ EDEN AS ESTHER!!!!💀💀💀

[nimble ingot]

You can, provided it has been announced.

I have seen some nice posts by TGC teasing on the game.
What you said is not a spoiler per say. I would suggest relying on what has been officially announced rather than saying you saw it in beta.

You are ok. Just wanted to give advice on the beta aspect.

[placid bronze]

Oh alright, thanks for the feedback, I’ll be more careful 😎👍

[hushed steeple]

The light is not as innocent as it seems. You think the darkness wants to be there? NO! It has…
m o t i v e s
/j

[placid bronze]

How much do you guys know about the lore of sky, I read a google doc someone suggested to me but I feel like it left out a lot

[nimble ingot]

I know enough about the lore to know there is a lot of scattered piece of the lore left by the devs, pieces left by concept artists that may have had concepts that may have since been changed, that the lore in Sky has undergone a metaphorical genesis retcon (my way of describing what happened); where the lore in Sky: Light Awaits changed when the game has been released as Sky: children of the Light.

I know that learning about the lore can produce various outcomes depending on what a person is looking for, and their process of doing research.

To put into an example: lets use the King (in the next message)

The king of sky has been an enigma for a long time (mystery, something difficult to describe without questioning it).

In concept are, we learned the name of the character as Resh.
We also learned in the lore chat on Discord that the devs confirmed the name is not canon because it was a placeholder name.
The fact that the name had a meaning despite it being a placeholder, does give a little bit of insight on what the devs/lore writers could have had in mind when they decided on the name.
The King seemingly played a bigger role in the game back in Light Awaits, as there were more statues depicting the king with their iconic head. This was later on changed and removed. Suggesting the team may have other plans in mind when the game was released internationally.
After several seasons in Sky, there has been small tidbits about the King being introduced to the player. Whether these are foreshadowing this mysterious King to the players, or the devs teasing the idea to observant fans to speculate is uncertain.

In short, the Lore in Sky is like an onion /hj
It has many layers and the more you cut into them, the more you want to cry (either out of frustration, because of the emotional story telling, or whatever the reason; tears shall be shed in some form).

[hushed steeple]

So Sky lore is an ogre, got it!/j

At least it’s not built like FNAF lore!!!!

[nimble ingot]

(I had a thought that message would get nuked)

Short answer:

[hushed steeple]

Wha’dd’ya mean no!

Seriously, I don’t even know which part you’re referring to.

[nimble ingot]

About sky lore like fnaf part.
Good heavens, no.

Sky may have dead people, but no haunted robots in questionably over budget restaurants.

(I had to choose my words carefully with describing fnaf lore)

[hushed steeple]

Ah, icee!
Mega bird stuffed sentient juvenile stars into child shaped rocks against their wills!!!!

That moment when you accidentally end the lives of several ice cubes…..

[sharp lichen]

I think the shards come from the Eden Diamond, given what we see in the explosion cutscenes

[sharp lichen]

This document has a basic summary: https://docs.google.com/document/d/12XSkaMV_5UYG-an_Qo37ItyKP6GaqBBA6iRqBVE2qck/edit

The spirits died for many reasons. Most of them died when Eden became what it is now.

Many of them probably died from natural causes, but the spirits in Wasteland probably died in combat/battle.

[sharp lichen]

I like this idea: the person who inadvertently caused Sky’s destruction has to fix it up again.

We see very little of the Void of Shattering’s personality, but their physical characteristics (for example, they used to be red but then turned blue like a spirit) points to something more than a rock

[sharp lichen]

Shattering but good /j

[sharp lichen]

According to the speedrun.com leaderboards, it takes place around 45 minutes

But I think Sky’s time is distorted, home is the only place in which time works naturally because it’s so far away from the rest of the kingdom. Eden is so chaotic that it’s warping time, like a black hole

[sharp lichen]

At first, Eden was just an uninhabited mountain

Then, people started creating buildings and factories on it. There was even a sign of conflict, with the broken shield in the small temple. A massive diamond contraption (you can see it clearly in the PNR area) was made to give lots of power to the people of Sky, but it exploded and is now spewing out darkness.

[placid bronze]

Woah, I never knew that about sky, what else is there about the history of sky?

[sharp lichen]

You can see much of the early history of Sky in the switch trailer: https://youtu.be/aBQRCHusYyU

[placid bronze]

Woah, the isle used to be so full and beautiful, did Eden destroy it?

[hushed steeple]

It may have been desertification.

[tepid veldt]

not the desertification :(

[tough sky]

I don't think Eden destroyed it, it is by far the furthest realm from it and except the shards, I don't think we see Eden directly affecting what happens in any other realm
And even the shards don't go to Isle

[fossil star]

wait, is there eden elder?

[fossil star]

where can i read/watch about sky lore?

[tough sky]

There is a docs with the basics

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

But most of the lore is interpretation so this channel is probably one of the best places

[fossil star]

who is the real daleth?

[sharp abyss]

The Elder of Isle

[fossil star]

then why do a lot of people say that daleth is the elder of valley???

[sharp abyss]

As far as I know the Valley Elder is Samekh (but I’m not sure!)

[earnest briar]

Because people are misinformed.

[tough sky]

Probably because Daleth is the fourth letter and they're the fourth Elder

[fossil star]

why do a lot of people say that alef is the elder of valley? i thought it was the prince/king

[tough sky]

I don't know
Technically they don't really have names, those are from the concepts and their reals names are just Isle Elder, Prairie Elder etc

[covert storm]

But I thought the elders of balky were twins ?!

So why is there only one name ?

[hushed steeple]

They were place holder names. Easy to just have one name for both if you’re going to change it later.

Besides, they’re twins!!! Why not have some fun with an interesting name for them!! Like Eve and Lyn from Evelyn Evelyn!

[lyric imp]

Devsused to unofficially refer to elders by the time of day in each realm, e.g. dawn, dusk, night, storm

[lyric imp]

Maybe it's a bit like platonic vision of ideas but made real. You know how darkness is normally absence of light, but here it's basically a physical phenomenon? Perhaps ancient light and darkness are, as you're saying, generalised concepts of light and darkness, but in this world their abstract forms could be tangible and real, if that makes sense

[lyric imp]

Possibly diamond ian't outright dark, but is 0an immense light trapped within even greater darkness or sth, or perhaps some things can naturally shift between darkness and light.
And in regards to soul, light seems to be functionally equivalent to it, but i wouldn't equate it with thoughts, feelings or sentience. I'd rather go for sth more ambiguous, just like the role of the soul in our world's religious beliefs

[lyric imp]

The lock mechanisms in forest temple are wheel-shaped. Does that count?

[lyric imp]

I have an idea. From what i read here, people think that darkstone could have been created through some process connected to killing animals. Counterpoint: imo the murals show charging rather than creation and darkstone is even more analogous to coal/oil - it's created by compression and other processes impacting darkness plants. This is how, as far as we know, coal has come to be in our world, from compression and decopmposition of large ferns

So possibly the animals in forest graveyard were not slaughtered but died from pollution, although the turtle-whale in the small building might have had its light taken or was used in other industrial process, since it's found inside a ruined building

[tough sky]

So charged darkstone could be used to make power diamonds?

[native galleon]

It’s not that darkstone itself is created by killing animals, the raw material is just a rock found underground. It could have been formed from compressed plant material - I think that’s a super cool idea! - but both things can be true at once.

In the process of refining darkstone from a raw crystal to a power diamond, the crystals were reshaped and light from creatures was drained to power them. We see this in Abyss murals showing that larger creatures yielded more light to power the diamonds, as well as hints in the Aurora concert.

[hushed steeple]

Therefore dark stone is representative of coal and fossil fuels.

[lyric imp]

From what i understand, rafinery made power diamonds from darkstone and was located in the forest temple. Could someone explain to me where do we see its machinery or anything like that?

[earnest briar]

In concept art, that big gold thingy on the ceiling was apparently meant to be the press that would shape darkstone into power diamonds.

[lyric imp]

Oh, interesting

[sharp lichen]

It’s funny because there’s pottery in Sky, implying the existence of a pottery wheel

[sharp lichen]

In the early days of Sky, when people didn’t know much about it, “Daleth” and “Alef” were used to refer to the Valley Elders. However, it is not canon, and the only names that are confirmed are “Valley Elders”

[desert ridge]

was the beast of the deep originally a light/neutral creature that was corrupted or was it always of darkness?

[sharp abyss]

There’s a fan theory (or fact, idk), that when they fell as a star, it broke in half

[covert storm]

Oh that’s intreasting

[sharp abyss]

And they have one (unofficial) name, but sometimes ppl separate them as “Sah” and “Mek(h)”

[sharp lichen]

I’m not sure, it seems that it was distorted/corrupted by all the pollution.

[lyric imp]

But is there round pottery?

[lyric imp]

According to wiki their collective name was Samekh, Alef was eden elder i think, Daleth was isle

[desert ridge]

the easter eggs in the forest are some

[sharp lichen]

They seem to be decorative stones rather than pottery

[hushed steeple]

I see those as two different creatures. I theorize the right one may actually be the island from abyss.

[lyric imp]

So far this chat hasn't come to full agreement on the interpretation of the left mural, but it appears that ancestors imprisoned mantas for some scientific process, like creation or charging power diamonds. For some reason they seemed to combine or otherwise mutate mantas, which led to the creation of manta centipede. Its location, according to the mural, adds up with the leviathan, suggesting leviathan is the mutated manta centipede and it came to be because of light extraction or maybe sitting in darkness or sth

[tough sky]

The light creature is exactly where we can find the Abyss monster though
(Was responding to Esther but took too long)

[lyric imp]

Island?

[desert ridge]

It looks more like the whale thing from the wasteland, forest, and orbit then it does a manta

[tough sky]

It doesn't really look like a whale either

[desert ridge]

looks a lot more like the whale then a manta

[hushed steeple]

If you go to the right side of the beginner zone there are two leg like protrusions, not to mention the abyss crew found crystals similar to the two sky kid statues before the pnr and those we get when we lose light to darkness.

[hushed steeple]

No, that is not a whale. It could be a manta, a bigger version of the eel creature seen in the treasure reef, or something else entirely.
But it is most certainly not a whale nor a big fish.

[lyric imp]

Let's consider that ancestors show things in a simplified ways. Mantas look kinda like butterflies rather than regular mantas and ancestors are almist stickmen. If we compare the features, both the mural and the monster are long, have multiple eyes and lots of appendages and pertrusions

[hushed steeple]

The first mural with the monster seems to depict the ancestors finding the location. There’s no way they would’ve been able to capture a dark creature.

[lyric imp]

Dude, hold on

[desert ridge]

why could it not be a whale, also we see what a multiform manta might look like in the vault

[lyric imp]

They did not capture a dark creature, they drained the manta centipede and left it in the abyss to rot. It then transformed into the leviathan

[hushed steeple]

The mural with the dark creature is outside in the open ocean, having a terrifying confrontation with an ancestor.

[sharp lichen]

Perhaps it could be a creature that we don’t know about or is extinct?

[desert ridge]

the whale is a dark creature?

[hushed steeple]

It looks nothing like these nor the sanctuary whale.

[desert ridge]

and it looks more like a manta, which is flat with distinctly wide wings and a narrow tail?

[hushed steeple]

Yeah, or it could even be something else.

[desert ridge]

it... doesnt though?

[tough sky]

We have seen more diversity in mantas than whales so the probability of it being a manta compared to a whale is bigger
But I don’t think it was a manta either

[desert ridge]

all the mantas we see are still very distinctly flat made of 90% wing

the leviathon is much more girthy, akin to a whale, with much narrower wings, it also has distinct armor on it

[tough sky]

Maybe it was a bigger eel like there is one in the Treasure Reef

[hushed steeple]

So is this.
And again, it could be something else.
But most certainly NOT this:

[desert ridge]

alright screw this, ima go and see it myself again
the creature, not the mural

[hushed steeple]

I can provide a picture of the more than 450 ft long creature!

[hushed steeple]

Here!!

[lyric imp]

Neither the leviathan or the creature in the other mural, if it's sth else, has a real chance of looking anything like a manta. If anything, it's a mutated manta centipede whose series of wings have degenerated

[desert ridge]

what are the bottom creatures?

[tough sky]

The look like krill

[lyric imp]

Ok, looks like a sufficient proof that there are 2 different big creatures in the reef
Edit: wait no

[desert ridge]

the krill are hiding behind the skids

[hushed steeple]

Here’s a better picture.
(This all was from when I was using babies to measure it.)

[tough sky]

I didn’t say they were
I said they looked like them

[desert ridge]

ah

[desert ridge]

so much more has to change for the leviathon to be from a manta then from a whale, I mean if its from a manta, the wings would have to of seriously degenerated, it would of had to of became much thicker, and it would to of gained armor,
not to mention grown much more dramatically then from a whale base
the whales just would of had to grow armor and become large, but the proportions would remain much more consistent

[hushed steeple]

They are krill with skids!

[hushed steeple]

But, what if it was the eel but bigger?

[desert ridge]

that one makes more sense, but the eel is also translucent/bioluminesent, maybe the darkness would of made it opaque but we dont have any evidence that darkness does that

[hushed steeple]

Listen, I’m qualified to tell you that this leviathan is FAR MORE THAN 450 FT LONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tough sky]

I just realised

We haven't seen any manta or whale in the water have we?

[desert ridge]

yes and yes except not from underwater
@hushed steeple what are you using as a ruler?

[hushed steeple]

The eel is opaque and the reason it looks like it’s glowing is due to Sky’s shaders.

[tough sky]

I mean darkness emiting light would be very unlikely

I very much believe it was a very big eel

[hushed steeple]

2ft 3 babies.
Not kidding.

[desert ridge]

is that using human averages or is that confirmed somehow in game

[hushed steeple]

Someone measured it a while back.

[lyric imp]

So
Look at the length of the creature in the facility mural. If you straighten it, it's longer than the base of the structure, so it seems comparable yo the leviathan. Girth of the manta centipede would be somewhat insufficient, although its core circumference seems larger than an ancestor's height
And lastly, you can see appendages on the leviathan all along this body that could be degenerated, unused wings

[desert ridge]

I really wish we could of seen corrupted light creatures now

[desert ridge]

we are basing a lot that every single creature in that mural are all related though
well you lot are I should say

[lyric imp]

Imo a single most compelling thing is the location. Either leviathan ate the manta centipede, or it is the manta centipede

[desert ridge]

or a whale ._. I still dont understand why yall are so opposed to that since it requires much less logical leaps then a manta does
the only argument I have heard as to why its not is that it is not

[tough sky]

I am pretty they are the same creature
I don't think manta or whale, I think an eel
But I think they are the same creature

[hushed steeple]

That leviathan is more than 3-5 times the length of the whale.

[desert ridge]

and how much bigger is it compared to any manta in the game?

[desert ridge]

The eel does look pretty similar, maybe the leviathan is a dark eel

[hushed steeple]

Well krill can be upwards of 75 ft long so I’d say it’s the biggest creature in game.
By the way, I never outright said it was a manta, I said it could be one or something else entirely.

[tough sky]

Esther didn’t say it was a manta
He said it probably wasn’t à whale

Also
I think it can be important to say

We are not necessarily here to reach an agreement, just to talk about our interpretation of the lore, we can all reach our own conclusion and it's perfectly fine

[lyric imp]

Dude, noone's saying it's just a manta, but the manta centipede seen in the mural

This, but transformed over time. Does this seem unreasonable? @desert ridge

If it's not this, then there's still the question of what happened to this thing. If it just got eaten or sth by the leviathan that came from elsewhere, then the whole story behind the murals leads to a dead end. It looks like out of all the things, this is a very deliberate hint by the devs

Also

Anyone wants to go to abyss to look at the monster?

[hushed steeple]

Already have an image.

By the way, I think this bird has a single eye up on its head.

Very impractical placement to be honest.

[desert ridge]

I really dont like the murals because of how artistic they make everything

[hushed steeple]

It’s not that bad, most things are still very clear.

[tough sky]

I mean it represents a very big and long light creature
We don't really need to know anything more since there isn't anything that perfectly matches it in the world of Sky

They're vague so we can be the one to interpret them and find our answers to our questions, the goal is not to find THE answer but an answer that suits you

[hushed steeple]

Listen, nightbird whisperer knows 39 calls, that leaves possibly more or less than 30 other creatures we don’t know!!!

[earnest briar]

wait that's a Manta?? I thought it was a really long centipede.

[lyric imp]

It probably came from combining several mantas. You can think of a certain movie i'd rather not mention. I think it may be a similar story, but in a more normal way

[tough sky]

Is that why you call it a manta centipede?

[keen shore]

The mural on the left is about ancestors harvesting manta light to charge darkstone with. Before skykids came, manta light (and other light creatures, notably butterflies, but most commonly mantas) was the main thing charging darkstone mechanisms so that they could work.

This is why you see mantas fly out of the temple walls after the forest elder cutscene (their temple doubles as a refinery), why there are mantas trapped in treasure reef, and why you see mantas getting trapped in the concert.

treasure reef may show a standard version of that ‘charging’ process that had already been implemented in other places or, more likely, since the spirits depicted are scholars, they are experimenting to figure out the right ratio

[earnest briar]

Also the first mural you encounter when entering Treasure Reef with the big creature with the round teeth mouth kinda reminded me of a Subnautica creature when I saw it. Which one? I have no idea! It just gave me those vibes.

[keen shore]

I also don’t know why this faced so much backlash because Termination is right. Like, objectively, the leviathan does look a lot more like a whale or an ‘elder manta’ (the big creature in sanctuary islands) than it does a singular manta or even line of mantas

the point is, we don’t know what the leviathan used to be. We also don’t know how stylized the ‘manta centipede’ in the first mural is; it could be a large eel, it could be an elder manta (which aren’t as thin but have the same protrusions), it could be a whale (again, not as thin but have similar spines), or it could be a creature we don’t know yet. sadly, the leviathan’s original form is way too twisted to accurately tell at this point.

[desert ridge]

I dont like the idea that it would be a different creature that is not seen anywhere else, it feels like a copout
also if the area its in is a cave, then it is very firmly stuck in there
and I dont see how it could be not-a-cave

[keen shore]

Yeah, I don’t like it too much either. I wish we knew what it was beforehand, but unfortunately there’s a ton of options for what the long manta thing represents and with the introduction of the eels in treasure reef, there’s a very real possibility that there was an animal that was them but larger and became the leviathan

[desert ridge]

If the area it is in is a sinkhole or a cave, then the creature would of had to of been able to fit through it in the first place
and considering we see no other entrances or exits, that would most likely mean it is not an unknown creature

[keen shore]

That’s a good point; what if it was trapped there later somehow, though? Like after the mural where it attacks an ancestor takes place?

[desert ridge]

wait in the quest where we open the main door, does the leviathan also come through that? or is it only the krill

[mossy rune]

the leviathan as well iirc

[desert ridge]

wait how in the name of science did the beast get into the cave

[keen shore]

If I had to guess it was somehow trapped there by the ancestors who used to live on the island after it left the depths (where it had previously lived like in the first mural) and started attacking people due to corruption. This would explain the alarm system, the huge scratches on the lighthouse, the second mural above where it attacks an ancestor (this mural was probably placed as a warning to any other visitors) and its current location.

This is just a guess though because I’m gonna be completely honest, as much as this explains, I have no idea how the ancestors would’ve feasibly moved it to the big cave/open room it was in.

(I wish I could be less vague about the abyss quests, but since you can’t replay them and I’m operating on memory from over a year ago, I might be getting some things wrong)

[native galleon]

i remember someone had a theory about them trying to genetically engineer an elder light creature bc bigger creatures yield more light, if that’s the case then there could have been a designated chamber for it

[desert ridge]

nah I should say, how did it get from the containment zone (behind the massive gate) to the cave (under the crack)

[keen shore]

OH like after the last quest? Or am I forgetting something

[placid bronze]

Is there an Eden elder? What happened to them

[lyric imp]

Kind of. It just has a long corpus and lots of wings in pairs

[desert ridge]

after the second to last quest

[keen shore]

There was but they vanished, presumably in the disaster (the Eden explosion you see in the final shattering quest) and have been MIA since

[tough sky]

Maybe it’s not really a cave but just the open ocean and the facility was built over it
The creature could have already lived there and that could be why they decided to come at this place to do their business

[lyric imp]

You guus know how tectonic plates in the ocean are normally structured?

[desert ridge]

poorly, are you suggesting the creature is old enough to witness and be trapped by tetonic movements?

[lyric imp]

No, it's just that when a continental plate ends and oceanic begins, there tends to be a large drop in depth... But then i realised treasure reef is essentially an island in the middle of the ocean

[lyric imp]

Let's go meta for a moment. If the manta centipede and leviathan are not the same thing, then ut presents some very questionable design choice from the devs, since the manta centipede is nowhere to be seen, despite its hinted signifficance

[desert ridge]

is the manta centipede the mural drawing or a creature that is a manta centipede

[lyric imp]

When i say manta centipede, i refer to this thing

[desert ridge]

maybe its the eel
I mean its far too small to be the leviathan

[lyric imp]

You see a facility that's concerned with extracting light from mantas, you see a long creature with lots of what looks like wings, and your first thought is eel?

[desert ridge]

I mean a lot of creatures in murals are just variations of mantas

[tough sky]

If the manta centipede and the leviathan are not the same creature, it is probably not an eel

But if they are the same creature, my conclusion is that it is a giant eel

[desert ridge]

maybe the manta centipede flew off to the vault

[lyric imp]

We see one eel in the game an it has no protrusions

[desert ridge]

it has some, its much more proportional the leviathan then the mantas are
its just that the leviathan is much more obvious due to its size

[tough sky]

And the mural might not be accurate
Maybe they didn’t think drawing an eel could look good

[lyric imp]

Still though, why do you think there would be an eel in the context of creating weird manta creatures? And the main thing that doesn'tvseem to add up is girth, bc if we look at length, the manta thingy is actually very long, longer than the base of the facility, according to the mural

[desert ridge]

because we literally dont see any of the manta mutants

[lyric imp]

that's the thing

[tough sky]

Because that's not what I think the context is

There is no right interpretation of anything

I don't think that it's what happened and I think the giant light creature is an eel that existed here before the ancestors arrived and built all of this

[lyric imp]

They could have transformed as a result of having their light taken

[desert ridge]

I just noticed this when looking at the leviathan, the eel creature we see is actually pretty similar

it does have protrusions btw

[lyric imp]

While i think this got more plausable, though it also seems to me that creatures at each level of the mural having more and more wings/protrusions, with the first ones being mantas, hints at all of them being some kind of mantas

[tough sky]

Don't we free the creatures in one quest?

[lyric imp]

You mean 4th, freeing krills? Or could we free mantas somewhere?

[desert ridge]

we free the beast of the deep (my favorite name for it) with the krills
it then moves from its first containment tank to the cave below the facility (somehow)

[lyric imp]

Btw today i realised that whatever that thing is is related to mantas, or is an eel or whatever, but was originally soft, that means that due to corruption creatures can grow armor, hence it's not impossible for soft creatures like mants or sth more complex to become krills

[tough sky]

We do
We free mantas in quest 3

Do we see mantas before this in the reef (underwater)? I don't remember

It is possible that the facility was not entirely underwater (probable even) so maybe the mantas we free were not underwater at the time

[desert ridge]

I get the feeling krills are made of darkness
every other corrupted creature still retains some of its former organicness, krills dont have that

[desert ridge]

we see them in the containment pods, also if it wasnt built underwater, it would of had to of been retrofitted for it at some point since the containment pods are artifically oxygenated
which also seems to suggest that mantas cant live in water that isnt atleast 20% air

[tough sky]

Someone said that krills might have been the creature we see in the switch trailer, it has a similar eye

I believe it was confirmed that krills are corrupted

[lyric imp]

I thought that too, but it's been said by Jenova that they're corrupted.

[desert ridge]

well I want to see that confirmation before I believe it, as krills are the outlier in terms of corrupted creatures

[tough sky]

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

Here it is

[desert ridge]

well that sucks
it makes determining future and current dark creatures much harder

[tough sky]

Yup

That has been the main subject here for a day or two

[desert ridge]

I also think it makes krills less interesting, I always thought they were literally formed of darkness
it makes their determinance on hunting the light much more logical

not to mention their powers

[lyric imp]

Imo now it's still extremely logical. All creatures need light, and dark creatures need it most desperately. Thus they violently take it away from other creatures to feed their unsatiable hunger

[desert ridge]

they dont take the light, they just rip it out and continue searching for more light creatures

[lyric imp]

It's sometimes said in the daily hint that the dark dragon is hungry for our light

[desert ridge]

could be a metaphorical hunger too

[tough sky]

We don't know how they were corrupted though
They probably were before the Eden explosion which is interesting because they would be the earliest confirmed corrupted creature (I think, I might be wrong)

And I believe they consume the light, the reason why we can get it back is more of a game mechanic

[lyric imp]

But actual hunger aligns with what we know about them, such that it does seem logical

[lyric imp]

Krills are depicted in the cave of prophecies murals, so they existed before the eden catasptrophy, but there's a small chance it's just uncorrupted krills that look the exact same way

[desert ridge]

maybe uncorrupted krills are naturally predacious as well, just that they were much more tame about it

[lyric imp]

Actually possible

[desert ridge]

maybe they still lived on light, its just that before they would hunt to stay alive,now they hunt to exterminate

[tough sky]

The only agressive lifeforms we see are corrupted I think so, unlikely
Possible but unlikely

[lusty merlin]

Think that only applies to skykids though, because of how our light detatches from our bodies. (Also agree it can be a game mechanic thing for quality of life) The first krill in wasteland seems to fully capture the manta no issue.

Like to think skykids were made to die in eden at the end, to give their winged light to free the statues, and be reborn and repeat. So I feel us being able to detach light is just a biology quirk and also a defence mechanism, as we can survive even when we turn grey for a long while

[desert ridge]

well we also have way more souls then creatures of light (presumably)

[desert ridge]

corruption seems to only be able to change what is already there, not make something new entirely
the searchlight on krills seems pretty well geared for hunting

[lusty merlin]

Yeah I agree, so to krills we look to be like any other light creatures as they try to take light and survive, but ofcorse were really not like that

[tough sky]

Corrupted crabs do attack us but uncorrupted ones don't

[desert ridge]

also consider the might of a creature able to rip out more then one soul

[lyric imp]

Consider that there are crabs who we can see in about 4 forms: crystal crabs, black and normal corrupted crabs, and uncorrupted crabs. I suspect uncorrupted krills could feed off some plant matter or sth

[desert ridge]

corrupted crabs also retain their former forms, krills seem to be entirely 100% taken over, that difference has to arise because of something

[earnest briar]

And unfortunately for the Krills, some of us take their attacks as a challenge and find it fun to play around and dodge them.

[lyric imp]

Well, whatever leviathan was in the beginning, it does seem to have been changed very substantially, esp. armor, jaws/beak and eyes

[desert ridge]

I mean more along the lines of obvious organic plating and whatnot, krills seem to have no difference between its natural body and that of the darkness

[tough sky]

My hypothesis is that regular crabs are neutral creatures while krill were light creature, so corruption affected their bodies more

[lyric imp]

That's the question, why do we assume uncorrupted krills were of light?

[desert ridge]

well the hypothesis of that then is that darkness inverts light, so the more light, the more to invert, where else do we see this as a form of confirmation

[tough sky]

Why do you think I said hypothesis and not theory?
I can't prove it yet

[lusty merlin]

Think when we here corruption that’s what most think, I like to think they could also be natural dark creatures but I go back and fourth on it from how little pointers there are for either

[lyric imp]

That's exactly the difference of hypothesis and scoentofic theory. Hypothesis is weaker

[desert ridge]

a hypothesis has to be based on something, we need to find confirmation of the first statement to build off of it

[earnest briar]

I want more neutral creatures. Vampire squids when TGC? They are just silly little guys who got stuck with a scientific name of 'Demon squid from hell' because people thought they looked evil and demonic. Please I wish to play with the silly squids who have mastered their environment and haven't evolved in any meaningful way in millions of years because they had no need to.

[lyric imp]

#lore-discussion-spoilers message

[lusty merlin]

Yeah I know the text post but I still think corruption doesn’t have to mean full on edgy transformation but can be more of behavior changes

[lyric imp]

Yeah, used the wrong word and mixed it up, sorry. That's what i meant to say

[lusty merlin]

Your good dw

[desert ridge]

well my point is that we need to prove that corruption inverts light (the more->the more) before we can say that a krill is a result of this interaction

[lyric imp]

I have an idea that light creatures die when they're exposed to lots of darkness, while neutral creatures get corrupted, generally speaking. Possibly it's that krills are originally neutral, but naturally feed on darkness trees or sth bc there's no sufficiently large light flora

[earnest briar]

Hold up Polish, you just gave me an idea.

[desert ridge]

or krills were naturally predacious

[lusty merlin]

That’s why we’re throwing ideas around tho, like ofcorse we don’t know that’s what corruption does but we can atleast play with multiple ideas since sky literally gives us nothing about it

[desert ridge]

when your in eden, does darkness start flaking off of you when you run out of wedges in the last zone?
I do not remember and do not want to test

[lusty merlin]

I dont pay attention but i think blue crystals bloom out of us

[desert ridge]

well I have a feeling "blue" is about to not be associated with darkness with the new season

[lusty merlin]

I feel it still can be with natural darkness, cuz I feel that can exist in sky with there also being corrupted dsekness

Like a balance of sorts

[earnest briar]

Okay so there's a bunch of darkness plants in Wasteland, right? But what is inside those plants when we burn them? Wax. Wax is a fan term, and it's official term is light. What if the reason the Krills have managed to survive for so long in Wasteland is because the darkness plants provide just enough light to keep them going?

[tough sky]

But we can't prove anything because we do not have any information about this anyway

We only know they were corrupted
I think they were light creatures

You don't have to think that, I don't really have to prove it
I am interpreting, using you comments to reach an interpretation that suits me and giving you mine to help you do the same

[desert ridge]

or maybe darkness isnt inherently bad, but the spread of it is

[lyric imp]

There's darkness plants and corrupted crabs in valley maze and judging by location it was probably not caused by pollution

[tough sky]

Are darkness plants actually plants or are we calling them that because they look like plants?

[desert ridge]

I mean this would make some sense with sky's theme of mans indomitable hubris

[lyric imp]

Possible an i agree that darkness plants can canonically store light, but i suspect that they either don't need to eat to survive, or they hunt mantas that every once in a while stray too close, and of course - players

[lusty merlin]

Yeah like it would be great to be able to test ideas and theory’s but sky doesn’t give us that privilege as they want it to be as open as possible (somthing I don’t agree with but what can you do). But that’s just how it is, unless somthing can be disproven easily wrong like the grass in sky being moss we just have to bounce ideas off eachother and see what it comes to. Can’t really prove Somthing when the material itself is so vague to even do it

[desert ridge]

the light's plan with skykids is actually an elaborate scheme to keep the krills fed

[earnest briar]

One of the biggest dark trees in the game is conveniently located in the Graveyard, where we find the largest concentration of Krills in one area (not counting Eden) with 4 roaming around. And another dark tree is located in Battlefield, where it's shown that there are multiple Krills, though they're only drawn out when we open the gate. Possibly to investigate the noise, but also because they sensed the light inside the darkstone we charged to open it.

[lyric imp]

I think you just described darkstone

[tough sky]

I don't think darkness is bad but it is probably bad for the light
Skykids are light creature so it is dangerous for them

[desert ridge]

it might of been trapped too, we see in aurora and shattering that the ancestors were messing with stuff they cant handle+conflict and wars, perhaps its a sort of failsafe to guard the vault using creatures that hunt light indiscriminatly,
also because krills normally give no reaction to sound

[lyric imp]

What about krills in eden and above rocks in the ark area?

[desert ridge]

not counting eden
there is also only one krill in the ark, perhaps the area cant sustain more then that

[tough sky]

Does anyone think that the Eden diamond might have been corrupted and that's what provoked the Shattering?

[desert ridge]

almost certainly, though I personally think it was a superweapon made by one side in the great conflict that malfunctioned

[lyric imp]

I suspect darkness plants may be like a drug for creatures. It provides some light that they need, but at the same time slowly drains them entil it either kills or corrupts them, which is why we need to get rid of it in prairie so that the mantas don't get poisoned

[desert ridge]

I mean it could also be that darkness shouldnt be in the praire to begin with

[lyric imp]

If we're thinking eden-wasteland, we can see in the murals in eden summit that the crystal existed before the war, so chances are it was not meant to be a weapon, which doesn't mean, though, that it couldn't have been used as one

[desert ridge]

I wonder what the sides of the conflict were

[lyric imp]

Eden-wasteland, probably

[tough sky]

I would say Eden vs all the other realms but Vault seems mostly unaffected

[desert ridge]

vault could of been eden, it is also a vault

[lyric imp]

Though wasteland was the realm where actual battle took place and probably its warriors represented all the other realms

[desert ridge]

thats to assume there arent anywhere else in the kingdom though
it may be good to do the concert again to see if there are defining features of the sides

[tough sky]

It's available on YouTube

[desert ridge]

I also think its pretty safe to say that the war would of been a civil war
(unless of course the double eden is an actual thing and not a bug)

[keen shore]

Seems to be Valley (diamond/darkstone side) and Wasteland (sun/anti darkstone side) let me see if I have a writeup on it in this channel

[tough sky]

I'm just throwing this out, it's just an idea I got

Would it be possible that light was used as an energy source and the Eden diamond was just siphoned of its energy which provoked the Shattering?

[desert ridge]

maybe eden was an attempt to fully 100% combine light and dark and it backfired because, at the time, the world was more dark then light, so the darkness was able to change the light

[keen shore]

Yes to the first half but slight modification to the second half, the Eden Diamond was the siphoning device (corrupted darkstone absorbs light). The Eden beam or Eden as a whole (it’s unclear which) was the source of light that was drained

[tough sky]

What is darkstone actually? I didn’t understand that

[lyric imp]

The mineral used to create power diamonds that are used in many contraptions. It can absorb light, transfer its energy and possibly cause gold to move when active among other things

[keen shore]

It’s the blue crystals you find everywhere that provide power to mechanisms when you light them. They’re often diamond shaped and can be found in doors very commonly for instance.

They have a corrupted form as well, which is bright red and absorbs light constantly instead of just holding it when it’s put in there

[lyric imp]

Imo that last part is likely, though i'm not entirely convinced how it's all connected. The corrupted form seem to be just shattered parts od eden crystal

[lyric imp]

According to me and Esther, its creation is analogous to our world's coal, that is through compression and natural processes that darkness plants undergo

[tough sky]

All of this is mostly speculation right?

I mean of course it is

But how much of this is based on what we can find in the game?

[lyric imp]

Mostly. The fact that it absorbs and transfers light is seen in the game in many contraptions, and we can see it be mined in one spirit memory

All the stuff regarding industrial revolution in the kingdom is logical extrapolation and to some point it's quite obvious, but technically it's not seen directly

[tough sky]

Tearful Light Miner?

I'll go see their memory again

I agree with the industrial revolution or a type of gold rush due to the Forest spirits' names

[lyric imp]

Guys, i have an idea. There's a doc for basic lore. Let's make a document for advanced lore with many theories and appriaches and explanations for several different topics. How does that sound?

[keen shore]

The ‘how darkstone is created’ part is speculation, likely based around how we can see similar crystals form on us when we’re injured. It doesn’t take a leap to associate that with other light creatures as well, such as mantas; that and the fact darkstone seems to take a role in Sky’s story similar to the one fossil fuels take in real life makes the connection complete. However, this part is speculation, and is not strictly confirmed.

Darkstone’s function in the kingdom is very much confirmed. We see it powering mechanisms everywhere; it uses light as a battery, allowing things that could not otherwise float to move. You can see this on almost every boat as well as the gondolas in village of dreams. It can also channel light through gold circuitry, as seen most obviously in the prairie village bells, which combined with its first function allowed the people of Sky to utilize it in increasingly complex mechanisms to do whatever they needed it to. This is all stuff you can put together just by exploring.

The only noncanon thing about darkstone is its name; it is never explicitly given a name beyond ‘ancient power’ (which seems to refer more to the technology as a whole) in the game itself. However, due to its usage in concept art, darkstone became the most popular fanon name and is widely used for convenience.

[tough sky]

OK
The name was the thing was was making me the most confused
It makes it seem like it is made of darkness and the spirit is named Tearful Light Miner

[keen shore]

The problem with using darkstone is that, at its core, it functions as a battery for light. It can’t do anything with its own uncharged power. You need to find a way to put light in there, or it won’t work.

For skykids, this poses little problem — we can just use our chest candles, our most reliable source of light. Ancestors didn’t have thoss, though, and many of their mechanisms required lots of light at a time to function correctly, more than just their own light could allow — even if they were proficient with light magic. So they turned to creatures. Mantas, especially. You already know this part, though, so I won’t spend too much time on it.

Corrupted darkstone is very interesting because instead of waiting for light to be placed into it, it sucks in all the light around it on its own. This mechanism would presumably be useful since, if executed correctly, no creatures would have to be harmed (speculation, we don’t know if the corruption was purposeful). This is why it hurts us to be near… but also, since most beings in Sky are made of light, it’s also why it sucked in all the creatures and Elders you can see in the shattering memory.
The largest example of corrupted darkstone is the Eden Diamond currently, and all other examples are implied to have broken off from it in some way.

[tough sky]

Thank you very much for explaining all of this

All of you

I understand better now

[keen shore]

Yeah, I get the confusion. It might be a reference to whatever darkstone’s actual name that we don’t know yet is, or it changed, because darkstone is never called ‘light’ anywhere else.
Maybe they were looking for light veins under the ground (kinda like the light stream in the final passage quest) or veins of gold? We don’t know.

[tough sky]

Maybe they were mining for actual light things to power the darkstone

[lyric imp]

Hold on, why do you assume ancestors didn't have candles? There's a spirit in isle who's called [something] candlemaker. Sth's notbright here

[tough sky]

Maybe the problem is not that they didn’t have candles and more that they didn’t have a reliable way to light them

[desert ridge]

if there is a darkstone, there could be a light stone

[lyric imp]

The entire second paragraph is lots of speculation and imo is contentious. I'm not so sure corrupted darkstone was used industrially

[keen shore]

I forgot to specify, I meant like they couldn’t pull lit candles out of their chests, which is our best continuous source of light

[desert ridge]

corrupted darkstone seems very accidental, we dont see it used anywhere intentionally, and based on its appearence, it seems more like its discharges from eden falling at incredible speeds to imbed themselves into the ground

[lyric imp]

I'm guessing they had candles, since it'd be pretty dumb of them to make doors they struggle to open. I suspect light extraction served to power much greater projects for which candles are insufficient

[keen shore]

You’re right on the second sentence, it is speculation and I will edit it to specify, but the rest is provably true

[desert ridge]

humans are not naturally electrical yet we build massive monuments powered by electricity

[keen shore]

There is no evidence to suggest ancestors had chest candles like we do considering we never see them with it.
they might have been able to power small containers of darkstone with their own light by touching it or using magic, but this is unknown. likelier, those crystals were already charged externally even while not in use and they just turned them on/off.

[lyric imp]

Though we build them woth circuits that provide that energy from powerplants very far away. They have doors that open when you just put a candle close to them, so chances are they just carried candles on them, just like we do
Edit: not necessarkly candles built into them, but it doesn't mean they didn't carry them

[desert ridge]

do they have the core lights like the skids do (on their chests)? since that is where we store ours

[keen shore]

Good question! Spirits have a star in the center of their chests, but while alive as ancestors, they did not have cores. You can see this in the switch trailer and animation project trailers :3. one kid does have one; that is because they are probably a skykid (although the reasons why are a MASSIVE tangent)

[desert ridge]

I have a feeling they were incredibly new to this technology and didn't really know the best way to use it, originally the world had plenty of light to power doors with random things they find, but then they used it all, Eden as such could of been an attempt at a central supply that went bust

[desert ridge]

oh I just got a very dark thought from reading that
can children be a source of light?

[lyric imp]

oh

[tough sky]

I mean Winged Light are taken from literal children made of light

[desert ridge]

winged light is probably not light light

[keen shore]

I’m talking about the candles built into us that are continually charged with light. Our flame could be stronger than normal candles with flame; rain doesn’t put it out, for instance. We don’t know if normal candles had the strength to power darkstone, but we do know our chest candles do, so I wanted to focus on them.

[tough sky]

Our cape is made of light and it makes it better so I think it is

[keen shore]

Theoretically yes, but there is no evidence to suggest this actually happened

[lyric imp]

It just doesn't make sense to me why they'd make doors seemingly for everyday use that they are unable to use

[keen shore]

they might have been able to power small containers of darkstone with their own light by touching it or using magic, but this is unknown. likelier, those crystals were already charged externally even while not in use and they just turned them on/off. like battery powered machines.

[lyric imp]

Any evidence of external charging? Esp. with doors

[desert ridge]

ALRIGHT LADS, I just went to the bathroom and with some toilet wisdom, I came up with what is TRULY one of the theories of all times, so buckle up

[lyric imp]

I'm scared

[tough sky]

So am I

[desert ridge]

Okay so the doors and machines of this world need light to function, we all know this, they are powered on darkstone which sucks in light to be used, HOWEVER this affect is temporary and the darkstone will eventually need to be recharged, NOTHING NEW HERE JUST PRELUDE

[lusty merlin]

Hey just letting you know if your going in the direction I think your going I’m going to refer you to the first pinned message in this channel, just so you know

[desert ridge]

All the ancestor spirits we see do not have their core candles aside from one which is apparently in the switch trailer, note that the ONLY ANCESTOR WE SEE WITHOUT A CORE is a child, everyone else is an adult or child but we see no adult exceptions

[earnest briar]

My headcanon is that the Sky Kid just fell out of Orbit by accident. Like have you seen that place? There are no railings or anything. Not even a lock on the rebirth door. It is very much not OSHA-compliant and it's a wonder there haven't been more Sky Kids falling off before the events of the animation.

[desert ridge]

All the ancestors we see start off as the blue mimicking dark stone, what color do we see when we run out light? thats right, a very similar dark blue. The Ancestors ONLY turn orange, the color we are when we have light, when we give them ascendent candles? Where do we get ascendent candles? Dying at eden and freeing other skids

[tough sky]

If we're going too far I have another subject

[keen shore]

All the external charge now would be dissipated as it’s been literal centuries; however, the evidence comes in the way refineries function.

Refineries like the forest temple and treasure reef don’t seem to have anything to shape darkstone into diamonds (or anything that we can see). Instead they revolve around charging the darkstone, hence why you find mantas trapped in them; they were going to be drained for their light. We find murals in forest that imply butterflies were sometimes transported to them for the same purpose. The big wheel mechanism you see above the forest temple altar is used to charge darkstone; the gold is infused with light and as it comes down onto the diamond it puts it inside. Normally I hate using concept art as evidence but there’s a piece that shows this, I can try to grab it if necessary

This means that darkstone was very likely mined, carved into a diamond shape, infused with light at a refinery (the external charging you’re talking about), then put into a mechanism.

[desert ridge]

The only source of renewable light in the ENTIRE GAME (to my knowledge) is sky kids who still have their source candle, everything else either burns out or has obvious fuel in it

[earnest briar]

☁️ 👈

[desert ridge]

BUT, as can be demonstrated with corrupted darkstone, we can eventually have all our light leached away from us, leaving us as a hollowed out BLUE husk

[lusty merlin]

Nah this is okay just letting it be known to not tred to far into topics of extreme violence and cruelty implications cuz I thought that’s where this was going

[desert ridge]

So, what if, in a desperate attempt to keep their machines alive, to keep their way of life untouched, the ancestors of old sacrificed their own candle cores to power the machines, after exhausting all other sources of light

[earnest briar]

Clouds literally exist tho

[desert ridge]

I will headcanon that as exclusive for sky kids and firmly lock that away as it completely ruins my theory, good day

[tough sky]

Fair enough lmao

[desert ridge]

Hey wait a minute, not all realms use darkstone, but the spirits there are still the blue of a drained light creature...

[desert ridge]

Hey season of Aurora, what is probably the most drastic revelation locked within your concert is again...?

[lusty merlin]

Isint relying on a headcannon for evidence make this more of a fanon idea more than a theory

[desert ridge]

because clouds dont really make sense tbh

[tough sky]

It's all interpretation anyway, we can use what we want and put aside what we don’t feel like using

[desert ridge]

A war? How interesting, what could the people of sky EVER want a war over? Especially a civil war?

[lyric imp]

This sounds about tight, though it doesn't seem to be the same kind of external charging we talked about. You explained some kind of light infusion, now why ancestors wouldn't need light sources to power doors. Not to mention we can see they did have candle technology, so imo them just carrying candles around is by far the simplest explanation. Occam's razor

[desert ridge]

Could it be that those of the more developed realms were trying to claim the heart light from those from lower on the mountain?

[tough sky]

The war was already known before I believe
At least a battle in Wasteland
Since the game came out

[desert ridge]

I think it was previously interpreted as a battle against the dark creatures, not other ancestors

[lyric imp]

Salem, could you provide that concept art? I'm really interested

[keen shore]

with respect, that is exactly the type of external charging I talked about — external charging with light adjacent to irl battery powered machines that can be turned on or off. I also explained how it works. Do you have evidence of ancestors using candles to open doors?

[desert ridge]

Perhaps in a final, desperate bid to get light to power their machines, those of the higher mountain developed the Eden Crystal, capable of sucking away light from the entire mountain to power their machines

[tough sky]

I have seen it interpreted as a battle between ancestors before that's why I mentionned it

Maybe some wanted the knowledge in Vault

[keen shore]

Here’s the concept art!

[desert ridge]

well either way, aurora confirms what it really is

[lyric imp]

It seems to me you showed powering in the sense of light infusion, not powering mechanisms. Correct me if i'm wrong, though

[lusty merlin]

Doesn’t the eden mural debunks that? Since it seems to be the same figure in the prophecy mural

[desert ridge]

I also think my theory would fit quite well into the message of sky

[keen shore]

Powering in the sense of light infusion to provide the batteries with power would eventually power the mechanisms when they are placed into the machines
I have to go but 👍

[desert ridge]

that wouldnt nesesarily disprove anything, we dont know what the point of the murals are

[lyric imp]

Okay, this actually makes sense now, though i still have some concerns

[earnest briar]

It's uh...an interesting one. But I think human-like people heartlessly sacrificing others of their kind for energy is taking it too far.

[desert ridge]

I mean, have you seen humans?
We are capable of some truly horrific stuff, and im pretty sure the ancestors of old are supposed to represent us

because we dont have to, but we sacrifice a lot to our funny batteries
our enviroment, our health, our resources, our morals

[hushed steeple]

Ok, listen, Sky doesn’t have discrimination like we do, and people have morals here so that is definitely not on the ancestor agenda!!!

[tough sky]

Completely off topic but my other subject was
Why is everything so big
The stairs in the Temple after dying in Eden are too big for Ancestors to walk up them
The table in the room with the Levitating Adept in Vault is taller than them too

[desert ridge]

it might be on the ancestors-politicans though

[earnest briar]

Yeah but it's not like we're tossing people into nuclear reactors to power them.

[lyric imp]

We see the blue, refined crystals be used all over the realms, but yhey don't seem to provide sufficient power by themselves. It seems to me that they either abandoned the idea of batteries, or power diamonds work more as catalysts that multiply, or possibly just transfter energy. Not sure tho
Limitations of basing theories on concept art

[desert ridge]

yes because we dont have to
Do you not think there would atleast be something if humans were one of the most powerful sources of energy in the known world?

[hushed steeple]

NO!
They never got as far as we have and their culture is built too much on community for them to let that happen!!!!

[lusty merlin]

But the elders are the leaders though, they’re the ones with temples. Not ancestors, there are elder apprentices but that’s as far as ir goes

[earnest briar]

Termination this is going past theory-crafting and into edginess and dark storytelling for the sake of it. Ancestors do not sacrifice each other to the funny batteries. End of story.

[desert ridge]

There was war, they messed with powers beyond their control, eden, the wastes, the corruption, the exploitation depicted in abyss didnt come out of no where

[lyric imp]

Many things were created more with elders in mind rather than normal ancestors, probably

[desert ridge]

alright alright, I will stop

[lusty merlin]

Yeah but most of them are also around the height of ancestors, like the exception of a few but still

[earnest briar]

If things were like that irl and we started doing it, that would probably be counted as a crime against humanity and you'd get backlash from literally every single country for it.

[desert ridge]

the elders appear to be atleast twice as big as the ancestors from what I can see, since most are about four times as big as we are

[tough sky]

For the Temple at the end it would make sense
For the table maybe
But there are similar stairs in the Citadel of the Valley and we know they weren't the only ones to go there since there were manta races

The Citadel itself is ancestor sized

[lusty merlin]

I think Forest, Vault, and Valley elders disprove that

[desert ridge]

to be fair, it wouldnt kill them, it would just leave them depleted as we see in their un-ascended forms

[hushed steeple]

Ok, I really didn’t want to bring this up, but racism and other forms of discrimination towards minorities cannot exist when everyone’s differences are accepted by all. As well as when you’re just a bunch of rock people with similar rock colors.
Now, classism could have existed to an extent and the French Revolution Sky equivalent is also possible.

Now I gotta take a shower.

[lyric imp]

._.

[desert ridge]

I meant more along the exploitation of nature, also there wouldnt be racism, just people who didnt want to give up their light and those who need light to power their systems

[hushed steeple]

Well it seemed like you were implying ancestors sacrificed others based off of the same morals humans had towards others who were different.

[lyric imp]

Guys, so what do you think ofthe idea for joint advanced lore document?

[desert ridge]

Im sorry if I came off across that, I meant more like, when the realms that used darkstone ran out of people willing to sacrifice their light in those regions, they looked to other regions to get, and later take light from
again every ancestor we see is the blue of the depleted

[earnest briar]

You do realize that's basically the equivalent to people kidnapping Africans from their home country and forcing them into involuntary servitude so people didn't have to do the work themselves?

[lyric imp]

Guys please stop

[hushed steeple]

OK, ENOUGH WITH THIS TOPIC!!!
IT HAS ALREADY BEEN EXPRESSED THAT PEOPLE WISH TO MOVE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tough sky]

There is no right version of the lore really so I don't think it's a good idea, it wouldn't let people get as creative with their interpretation

[desert ridge]

it could be use to cottify current theories

[earnest briar]

May I share a theory I have about clouds in Sky?

[lyric imp]

That's the thing, we write all the non-easily refutable interpretations that have been come up with for each topic

[tough sky]

Maybe
But in that case it need to be said very clearly that those are only some of the possible interpretations
And maybe the names of the people who agree to it

@earnest briar Please do

[desert ridge]

you dont need to ask permission to give theories, tis the point of the channel

[lyric imp]

Kind of like thalmud lmao

[desert ridge]

"These are current well accepted/in depth theories, they are not certain and should not be taken as objective fact, but rather as the general consenous people work with"

[lyric imp]

I imagine several different approaches being listed for each thing, with each having a clear line of reasoning and evidence included

[tough sky]

My thoughts were that anyone maybe could add their own thing

But that's what this channel is for anyway

[desert ridge]

It would be a pretty interesting project imo, could have an iceberg for the more insane theories like mine

[desert ridge]

this channel is good but it runs into the issue of almost constant fog, if someone makes a theory, it will usually get buried pretty quickly

[lyric imp]

As long as it's well-written. It's a bit like codifying this channel, as Termination has said

[desert ridge]

I would suggest different "tiers of theories" where each successive tier uses theories from those below, for example darkstone is a tier 1, corrupted darkstone is a tier 2 since it uses darkstone as a base

[tough sky]

Maybe a terminology guide though

With darkstone for example, but only the things we know for sure (that it is used with light to power things for example)

[earnest briar]

So. Clouds. Everyone's (not so) favorite rain dispenser and an absolute lifesaver during red shards like the one at Hermit Valley. They're literally everywhere across the kingdom. Considering they recharge us, they have to have at least some amount of Light. Maybe the choice to build Valley among the clouds was an intentional one? That way the clouds could provide some form of passive energy to all the power diamonds in their infrastructure. The Ancestors still had to rely on other sources for energy sometimes, but the clouds acted as a buffer that could support everything, at least up to a certain point when just the clouds and those more sustainable energy sources like light naturally shed by Mantas weren't enough to support everything and they were forced to begin hunting and capturing Light Creatures to keep everything powered.

[desert ridge]

its always bugged me how clouds provide light, yet sun, or any other form of light unattached from flames doesnt

also isnt it weird how clouds can both dispense darkness in rain yet are apparently unaffected by pollution when you are directly in them?

[earnest briar]

I definitely don't think the Ancestors started off with the mindset of "Yay! Animal sacrifice is fun!" but instead were forced into it when their demand started outpacing the supply.

[lyric imp]

Decent theory. Imo either this is true, or clouds' recharging ability is non-canon, altho flying race kind of doesn't make sense without it

[desert ridge]

well, there arent that many large light creatures so this does make sense

I also get the idea that there were a lot more darkstone constructs then what we seein game

maybe even darkstone wings?

[earnest briar]

I think in the case of Valley it was absolutely a "We need this really badly or bad things will happen" situation. With a city both in the sky and on the ground, keeping the darkstone holding up floating buildings powered would be of the utmost importance because otherwise...well, gravity will kick in and it won't be pretty. We even see evidence of this in the flying race. Several buildings have collapsed and fallen.

[desert ridge]

eden collapses around us as we make the orbit
well atleast the city right next to eden

[desert ridge]

ah the unstoppable hubris of all human like creatures

only beaten by our indominable spirit

[earnest briar]

What's your point here? I'm starting to get really sick of you painting the Ancestors as these cartoon supervillain bad guys who have only done unabashedly evil things and nothing else.

[desert ridge]

._. I am painting some of the decisionmakers as such, most of the ancestors would be entirely normal people

[tough sky]

I thought the sky part of the city in Valley was just

Built on floating islands like we see in Wind Paths or Sanctuary Islands

Also

They could fly with boats or mantas, I think putting a city in the sky if you can fly to get there easily is normal
Especially if there might be a lack of space on the ground (nothing to prove it but it might be a reason)

[lyric imp]

Disagreed. Something else can be counteracting gravity, as seen in the floading island in sanctuary islands, as well as most of bird's nest

[desert ridge]

the ground might be uninhabitable due to the insane amount of cloud coverage in valley

[lyric imp]

Ground might be uninhabitable due to entire thing being built above a sea or a large lake or sth

Like duh, the game is called sky, where do you guys think action take place? Although there is a point to be made about, well, underground cavern

[desert ridge]

speaking of which, doesnt it feel weird that we are trying to scale a mountain yet by the end of wasteland we lose more height then we gain from dawn?
basically our highest point in the game seems to be the social space of praire since we only go downwards from there

[earnest briar]

Look. Termination. Please just stop. I'm not saying Ancestors were completely pure and good and right, but the idea that the civilians of Valley would just stand by with no complaints or outrage while some politicians sacrifice their own kind to some batteries is absolutely ridiculous. Think about it. If people from other realms weren't safe, then what's to stop those politicians from feeding Valley citizens to darkstone? Are you saying they're just going to sit there and let themselves get essentially murdered?

[desert ridge]

Omg I have already tried to drop this, please just let me do so
people dont want this to continue, im trying to respect that
we are evidently at an impass that neither of us are going to convince the others
just leave it at that

[hushed steeple]

Ok, we REALLY need to completely drop the discussion on ancestor society for today, or at least a few hours.
Why not talk about concept art or something!
Here, I’ll start.
These are concepts for the leviathan from season of abyss. I really like the one in the colored image. Such dreadful and imminently disastrous themes, and then you realize that jaw can’t close!!!!!
They’re constantly in a look of skronkly crow energy!!!!

I also really like this one!!!!
They look so peaceful!
Absolute friend material!!!!!

[desert ridge]

ngl the green searchlights is terrifying

it makes me wonder if the oceans hide a different variant of the light/dark system

[raw crypt]

Season of Moments Spirit Cards

[hushed steeple]

Ascetic Monk uses tarot cards./j

[lyric imp]

I'm even more convinced that leviathan was meant to be manta-related

Good god how i wish we could somehow interact with it in game. Imagine the leviathan in sanctuary islands

[lyric imp]

I think nightbird whisperer would LOVE rearth and fire trials, wouldn't they

[desert ridge]

Ascetic Monk says "Goodbye" and then dematerializes

[native galleon]

The pattern on their head is the sun symbol!!!!!!!!

[hushed steeple]

Ascetic Monk: You are going to have tough times, but will ultimately champion through them.

Moments Guide: Well, I guess that’s kinda reassuring?

Ascetic Monk: You will live a life of pure joy and contentment.

Nightbird Whisperer: Oh wow! Really!?

Ascetic Monk: You will assist many in uncovering long lost secrets, but will not be credited.

Jolly Geologist: DARNIT!!! I bet it’s gonna be Sly Spelunker’s fault!!!

Ascetic Monk: …
O _ O
You’re screwed…

Reassuring Rancher: well darn. I ain’t got no kids ta take o’er the farm when I’m gone.

Ascetic Monk: Oh trust me, that won’t be necessary.

Oh look! A moments spirit I have never seen before! Wow, I can’t believe this was just now revealed to us and totally not a couple hours ago!/j

[native galleon]

ooh actually its more like the symbol the reactions are right

[frigid tinsel]

The sun and the Light symbol are almost the same thing anyways

[hushed steeple]

I like how Ascetic Monk looks like they’re floating.

[hushed steeple]

OOHHHHH!!!!
That’s why they have the blind fold!!!
I knew it!!!

[desert ridge]

tis their natural state of being

[hushed steeple]

In this case ascetic is likely being used as an adjective so as to describe the monk.

[sharp lichen]

It was measured by using the Office scales

[sharp lichen]

I’ve always thought that it was a wholly original creature that we haven’t seen yet

[desert ridge]

careful incase you go below the leviathan discussion btw

[sharp lichen]

I think blue is associated not with darkness specifically, but with the absence of light. That’s why uncharged power diamonds are blue

[desert ridge]

actually yeah that makes sense

[native galleon]

And why trapped spirits are blue but ascended ones are gold :3

[sharp lichen]

I think it was a Wasteland civil war, given the lack of fighting anywhere else. There was probably minor fighting in places like Eden, but there was little resistance

[desert ridge]

I already came up with a different theory for that, a bit further down and very much darker

[sharp lichen]

Clouds and fire would probably be not as easily useful for the Ancestors than the Skykids

[sharp lichen]

Because we’re so small

[desert ridge]

read the rest of that one, they point out that it is too big for the ancestors as well

[hushed steeple]

Some things are built for elders, other things are realistically decently sized but seem bigger cause we’ve only ever played sky from the perspective of a child, some things may be designed with emotion as the core intent or for unknown reasons.

[earnest briar]

I think the giant stairs and temple aesthetic in the beginning of the ascent to Orbit might be more symbolical/metaphorical in origin than literal. Like all that stuff Christians have about how God is bigger than all of us, it's like it's saying 'We are all a part of the Light, and no one person is more important than another in the Light.'

[hushed steeple]

The stairs, the stairs are the key. They answer all./j

[sharp lichen]

I think they were floating due to the cyan light, since we see it create floating platforms in the Prophecy murals

[sharp lichen]

Here’s a rough estimation of how I imagine the elevation of each realm to be

[desert ridge]

we dont go up though for valley, we gain a very slight amount when we exit the tunnel that is lost on the descent to the social space, then we lose what I believe is the forest on the first descent, and then isle and paraire on the second and then some

[sharp lichen]

We also go really up for the Citadel, and very up for the Hermit Valley. However, I think you’re mostly right-the height for Valley of Triumph is the most variable, due to being a valley

[desert ridge]

the citadel?

[sharp lichen]

The place with the big spinny circles thing

[desert ridge]

in the forest? we dont really gain much altitude for that

[hushed steeple]

Forest may be lower than or on the same level as prairie but it does ascend a bit, then we ascend up to a mountain possibly up a few hundred or so feet to valley, higher in elevation than prairie. There also seems to be a gap or even valley of sorts between valley and Eden, but we can’t be certain that’s where wasteland is. Ultimately, though, Eden is our highest point.

[sharp lichen]

No, in Valley

The place with the Warrior Aurora quest

[desert ridge]

oh I see, well I really asked this question to see how deep the wastes are

[hushed steeple]

About the same elevation as the beginning of isle.

[desert ridge]

aint no way, unless there is some unknown height we gain between realms
maybe

[hushed steeple]

I meant isle!!!!

[desert ridge]

The most altitude we gain in the entire front half of the game is isle>praire, that altitude remains rather consistent as jump down for praire to regain at the end, jump down for forest which we dont quite make up at the end, then go up a bit and back down for the entrance to valley
down a lot in valley
down a lot in valley
down even more from valley>wastes
then down even even more from wastes social>wastes entrance
it makes me think that the social space for wastes is at the same level as isle

good heavens I am about to be crushed by the text city

[hushed steeple]

Isle starts around sea level, it goes up a bit to prairie.
Prairie remains the same elevation throughout, however, the temple is a lot higher.
Then we go down to forest which would be about the same elevation as prairie more or less. We go up a bit throughout forest, then ascend A LOT to valley.
Valley does slope down a fair bit to the coliseum, but is still at a very high altitude.
From there we go through the wasteland vortex, spitting us out at who knows where in wasteland, back at around sea level. We then take a flight of stairs up a bit to the battle field and enter the wasteland temple which leads to the vault of knowledge.
Vault just goes straight up for miles to Eden.
Eden is ultimately the highest point in the game, but we have to climb it to reach the peak first.
So it’s
Isle: sea level, then ^
Prairie: couple hundred feet above sea level, then ^ then down.
Forest: around prairie elevation and ^ then ^^^.
Valley: really high up and down then D O W N.
Wasteland: sea level then ^.
Vault: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^
|
^
|
^
|
^
|
^
Eden: highest point and ^xinfinity.

[desert ridge]

well your forgetting about the entrance from valley to wasteland which is another bit quite down, also we dont gain nearly as much altitude in forest as you think we do, infact since the social space is so high im pretty sure we lose altitude when we exit the temple that we only regain at the apex of the ascent to valley

valley really gives a false sense of elevation with the snow and clouds when in reality its at the same height as prairy

[hushed steeple]

I didn’t forget, wasteland is all the way near sea level, which is as low as isle. And Forest does raise in elevation a little bit, if not during the path ESPECIALLY so when getting to the temple.
I know my stuff, I like to think about the geography and biology of Sky quite a bit.

[desert ridge]

well considering all the liquids in the wastes are all dark pollution, it may not be much of a stretch to say that the wastes are built in a basin

[native galleon]

yea didn’t the devs say they wanted valley to be a physical as well as emotional high point of the game

[hushed steeple]

No, that’s the ocean. Even if I have disagreements with the in game map I can respect that it understands it’s own elevation and placed wasteland at a coast.

If you’re confused as to how the ocean can be polluted around wasteland but nowhere else, let me tell you, that’s just how oceans work.

[desert ridge]

I still think you overestimate the amount of elevation gained in priare and forest

[lyric imp]

i mean the darkness plants are blue so idk. imo absence of light and darkness in this world are somewhat interchangable, even though darkness is a concrete thing in itself, too. hence darkness plants grow in the maze and crabs are corrupted. it's just really, really dark there i think

[desert ridge]

absence of light is pretty common without it being dangerous, I think the darkness and darkness are different
though ig it could be how not all light is actually that meaningful, so who knows

[hushed steeple]

No. And even if I am by a bit, it has nothing to do with anything else. Valley is still really high up and wasteland is still at sea level.
Do you know about the flooding? There is a ton of evidence showing that the world of sky flooded at one point, from the water trial to the treasure reef and even to the switch trailer, the evidence is there.
And another fact is that isle and wasteland could have been connected at one point. Just look at the switch trailer, in modern sky it would be impossible for that cart to get to the bottom of isle. But in past Sky, there was more land.
Ultimately, Sky’s geography is built somewhat radially. The outside is at sea level and gets higher and higher as it gets closer to the Eden mountain.
Of course, there are exceptions to this(and the map doesn’t help), but in general it raises in altitude the closer you get to the top like Oklahoma’s pan handle.

[hushed steeple]

Hmmmm.
I think I’ve decided to try and measure a big fish.

[lyric imp]

did you know there was a removed mural in sanctuary islands that depicted elders, wasteland and eden stood in fromt of the rest and wasteland killed eden??

when you look at the shields, one side has sun symbol, the other has diamond, likely related to eden

[hushed steeple]

Haven’t even been stacking chibis that long but the foresight of the process give me pain.

[lyric imp]

hm... kind of makes sense, putting aside the fact that cyan light is far away. though then it's also very likely that everything in flying race is floating for the same reason - cyan light was originally bestowed to valley elders

[lyric imp]

guys guys

i think there is a simple way to make sense of this - clouds

[hushed steeple]

My total estimate is SEVENTY-FOUR CBM!!!!!!!

[lyric imp]

isle is on the ground level, way below most clouds, prairie is in the clouds, but its clouds are kind of low level, forest is, generally speaking, consistently pretty well below the clouds after we leave social space, with the exception of elevated clearing and underground cavern (don't even ask me what's going on with that one), valley is comfortably above wasteland's clouds throughout the entire realm, and might be close to forest clouds, maybe? wasteland is ocean level, just like isle. and vault is vault

if we assume relatively constant height of clouds, that makes it even simpler

[hushed steeple]

Comparatively the leviathan may be around 204 cbm.

[lyric imp]

you could have measured the oob whale

[hushed steeple]

I did.

[lyric imp]

oh, nice. i thought it was mid-flight, but when i look at that pic rn i'm starting to suspect i'm stupid

[hushed steeple]

The whale/big fish is a lot bigger than a krill but A LOT smaller than Ruby.

[lyric imp]

ruby? you mean eden diamond?

[hushed steeple]

No, during season of abyss we named the leviathan Ruby. I suppose that name has since been dropped.

[lyric imp]

oh, sweet. nah, i'm just not as old as abyss

[hushed steeple]

Abyss feels so recent but it’s literally a year old.

[keen shore]

A year and a half, unfortunately

[hushed steeple]

Assembly is 2!

I’m still so young yet I feel so old!!!!
TIME IS CRUEL AND EVIL!!!!!!

[lyric imp]

oh dear. i better not say anything

[sharp lichen]

I think since Isle and Wasteland share an ocean, they are about the same elevation

[sharp lichen]

That was placeholder text for the Season of Prophecy murals.

The “killed” part was the Eden Elder standing in the center of the mural, it was just tilted

[sharp lichen]

Also, in the Sanctuary cutscenes we see cyan light being used

[lyric imp]

tilted to the point of seemingly lying on the ground, though

[hushed steeple]

It was a place holder, probably just a collage of drawings they slapped on a transparent background and placed on the ceiling for the time being till they figured out how they wanted to format everything. Coulda been rotated however as long as it fit. And who knows, maybe the devs wanted to have fun since it wouldn’t be the final version!

And then season of sanctuary rolls around and they accidentally add that place holder mural instead of the actual mural.
Or maybe there was never meant to be a mural!

Also, there is a random doorway inside the mountain that you can see when you chibi fall. Just thought it was interesting!

[empty belfry]

This note is so funny to me cause it implies that theres a group of sky kids out there doing safety checks in the golden wasteland of all places

[somber moss]

During the aurora concert ive just discovered, all these statues are meant to be fallen ancestors from war

[lyric imp]

so you guys are saying it may have been wasteland vs rafinery?

[hushed steeple]

No! That is not what I said…
Or was even talking about!!! Lol!/lh

[lyric imp]

i should probably go to sleep

[hushed steeple]

Yeah!

[lyric imp]

lmk guys please who do you think the shields with the diamond belonged to

[hushed steeple]

The people who liked shields with diamonds, duhh./j

[lyric imp]

Esther, one more thing

I reviewed the sanctuary quests and in the last cutscene there is a close up on the whale. It does have lots of appendages along its sides, similar to manta wings, and it is probably the largest light creature we see. Based on the wings, it probably is related to mantas. The key thing is

It actually lines up very closely with the manta centipede from the abyss mural. The ancestors did some experiments on mantas and it's hard to say what it was and it's hard to say whether they created a whale or found it, but either way this kind of a whale might have transformed into the leviathan

If anyone strictly disagrees, lmk what is contentious: the thing in the mural being a whale, the thing in the mural being the leviathan, or sth else entirely

[hushed steeple]

The sanctuary whale is way too short to match with the mural. It can’t wrap up like a snake or centipede. Also, mantas are based off of their real life counterparts, making a strict characteristic for classification as a manta be a flat body. The sanctuary whale does not have a flat body and appears to be a very blubbery creature, with a horizontal tale fin to match with aquatic mammals.

Now, eels are very slithery and skrinkely. Like an aquatic snake, except it’s not, it’s a fish and sea snakes already exist.
They also have very interesting life cycles, let me try to find a picture of it.

This is why you’ve never seen a baby eel.
Or at least not that you know of.

I should go to sleep.

[tidal turtle]

From what i believe, i think that we as the player, are the reincarnations of the King

[dense inlet]

Does gravity exist in Sky? Or does Sky have its own "gravity"?

[empty belfry]

I suppose sky has its own type of gravity. Creatures also probabky all have (assuming they have) hollow bones to allow flying.

[empty belfry]

Wait, this makes me wonder if sky kids and other creatures actually have bones or are just rock.

[lyric imp]

Sib, wait

If we compare sheer lengths and shapes, the mural thingy would be a bit longer than the base of reef facility, and so would the whale. Both have pseudo-wings and the proportion thereof to the core body is similar
And i'm not saying whale is a manta, but that it's related to mantas. And i wouldn't be super strict woth biology because we live in a world where there are kids with candles in their chests and whale-looking things with basically beaks

And as Termination and others have said, leviathan is kind of close to the whale in how it's built, but smaller, not armored and irs appendages are healthy wings

[native galleon]

well, if any place needs extra safety measures, it would be gw

[hushed steeple]

There is absolutely nothing in Sky that comes even close to the leviathans length. And I think you’re struggling to see that so let me show you.
One of these is the length of about 74 chibis. A chibi is 2ft 3
The sanctuary whale is likely similar in size to that.
The leviathan is MORE THAN 204 CHIBIS IN LENGTH!!!!!!
Not to mention it’s snake/eel like body that matches that of the mural and the treasure reef eel but not much else.
When comparing whales to the leviathan you’re looking at something like this:
Whale:
—————
Leviathan:
————————————————————
(The dashes represent how long they are)
And as a meticulous person who is also an artist and has been examining and studying the creatures of Sky for well over a year now I’m telling you, the sanctuary whale is nothing like a manta. Something to note about Sky is that most creatures have similar styles, especially with wings, but that doesn’t mean they are related.
In real life, manta rays are fish and whales are mammals, not related.
And, sure, this world has flying children with candles for hearts, but it still has natural laws. And those children just so happen to be shaped like humans, similarly to ancestors.
So a whale with an exoskeleton for a head isn’t the craziest thing.

By the way, many things in Sky likely have tons of wing like appendages, it appears to be a common feature in large creatures.

[native galleon]

Happy anniversary to one of the tweets of all time

[hushed steeple]

3 years old. Dang!

[desert ridge]

I thought I made it relatively clear that when I was talking about the whale leviathan relationship, that the darkness is what made it baloon to it incredible size

[hushed steeple]

Not sure that’s how that works.

[desert ridge]

I mean the shard crabs are a bit bigger then normal crabs

while yes, they aren't three times as big, it is probably good to note that shard crabs have to survive extreme speeds, which probably means the larger ones would of been destroyed by debris flying about Eden

[hushed steeple]

Crabs vary in size a lot. Forgotten Arc crabs are some of the biggest.

[desert ridge]

well whose to say that whales also don't, I mean we only see at most 2 and more probably 1

[hushed steeple]

||I want to bang my head on a table…||
||/j||
Whales likely do vary in size, but not as much as you’re wanting them to.
And yes, I do mean want and not think. I’m not explaining that though.

And even if a whale could get that bug, it still doesn’t fit the slithery snake/eel like body of both the mural and the leviathan. Sizing it up to match the length of the leviathan would require other proportions be increased, ultimately making it bigger in mass than the leviathan.
WAY bigger.

Also, we see a total of 3-4 whales/big fish.

[sharp lichen]

NO NO NO

||For context, we spent three full days a while ago trying to figure out Sky’s gravity. I used napkin math to determine that Sky’s gravity is 987 times weaker than Earth’s, and then someone with actual experience said everything I did was wrong||

[hushed steeple]

Sky has gravity, as does everything. If it didn’t then the game would take place in space.

[keen shore]

Had to retype this as a word was censored and it got deleted 💔

I’ve always wondered if the corrupted creatures, as in the leviathan, krill, and crabs, aren’t that different physiologically from their original forms. What I mean by this is that the darkness corruption altered their behavior but not so much their appearance. The sanctuary vortex text for days of nature (what angler told us) implies darkness pollution in Sky works similarly to toxin pollution irl, where if it spreads enough throughout the ocean, and if a creature accidentally ingests or comes into contact with it, it makes them sick. In this case, that sickness would be corruption.

I forget the name all the time but there’s a phenomenon irl where creatures at the top of the food web are disproportionately affected and poisoned by manmade toxins in the environment, as they collect and concentrate slowly over time in the creatures leading up to them. I wonder if Sky is the same, and whatever the krill and leviathans were before (the same species?) were disproportionately affected by this phenomenon, hence why we see only them corrupted and not other creatures like mantas. I doubt crabs are at the top of the food chain, but they could occupy a similarly dangerous role, like very opportunistic eaters prone to not being picky about what they consume.

I don’t know if I’m going to do anything with this idea but it’s just something to consider; I think it is at least somewhat compelling due to its resemblance with how irl ocean pollution works and how Sky’s narrative around oceans has already positioned itself to mirror it.

[hushed steeple]

Oh yeah! The poisons build up through the food chain! I read about this in a silent spring, but I’m not sure I ever got the name of it. It’s measured in parts per million usually.

[keen shore]

Something else to mention is that almost all the corrupted creatures we see have hard outer shells. (I think the leviathan doesn’t, but I could be wrong, it’s been a year and a half since I’ve seen it). This is likely partially due to visual language — the sharp, spiky shapes that armorlike plating creates helps players instinctively clock corrupted creatures as dangerous before even getting in altercations with them. However, it could also be that creatures with this exoskeleton are more likely to be corrupted.

In the second area of Wasteland, we see a manta getting attacked by a krill; the manta just vanishes, leaving nothing behind but a few embers. The actual corruption process is likely slower than this, but it does show something very important; creatures with stone armor are probably not going to vanish as quickly as that manta did. Their armor might slow down the darkness infiltrating it as well. This means they’re more likely to stick around for a while and less likely to immediately disappear then armor-less creatures like mantas do, and that provides them with the time necessary to become corrupted.

[hushed steeple]

Hmm, possibly in this instance of pollution. But with the pesticides everything is susceptible to extinction EXCEPT THE BUGS!!!/j
And whole populations of fiddler crabs were completely wiped out in an instant.

From reading a silent spring I learned that the pesticides would many times seep into fat tissue and as you lose weight the poison begins working it’s way through your body. It often affected the nervous system, especially the central nervous system, and could cause things like depression and paralysis.

[round parrot]

Idk if this is the exact name of the phenomenon but I did a little bit of research and found out it's called "biomagnification", it starts off from infecting smaller, bottom-of-the-food-chain creatures, which made a toxin/toxins eventually move up to the creatures at the top of the food chain. Again, I'm not sure if this is the exact one, but I do find it interesting that it starts off from the bottom of the chain making its way up to the top.

[hushed steeple]

That sounds just like it. An example from real life is when the elm trees were being sprayed with pesticides(might’ve been DDT or dieldrin but I’m not sure.) You see, elm leaves are one of the earth worm’s favorite foods. So they’ll obviously want to eat them a lot. But they had poison. And I believe the earth worms had up to 10 or 20 parts per million of the poison in them. Then the robins would eat them and they would have more parts per million. And with a diet of about 10-12 earth worms per meal, they nearly went extinct.

[keen shore]

Yeah! And it just gets worse the further you go up the food chain…

[hushed steeple]

You see, the elms had Dutch elm disease that was caused by a fungus and spread by a beetle that lives a part of its life in the trees as a larva. Like a pollinator that doesn’t realize they’re a pollinator and is also carrying the end of a species. The fungus specifically stuck to males. Also, the only tree that was ever planted were elms. The US thought that raining pesticides would solve the problem and claimed that they were “harmless.” Instead, they nearly lost not only the trees but also the birds. The one state that actually did it right was New York, but I’m not getting into that.

[round parrot]

So.... what I'm getting at here is that the corruption in creatures like dark dragons and crabs get worse and worse they more they consume creatures (with bits of corruption) lower in the food chain, which would result in said bits of corruption to build up in dark dragons and crabs and ultimately... corrupt them. Just to clarify.

[hushed steeple]

Probably?
Though, I doubt that’s what TGC was even aware of when they were writing the lore of corruption, it just so happens that it fits since corruption is ultimately based off pollution.

I am plagued by mortal cravings of sustenance.

Let’s hope there’s no aldrin or something in my food.
That’d be kinda bad.

For reference, aldrin is a pesticide worse than dieldrin(which is admittedly pretty bad)and is apparently banned in several countries.

[reef fulcrum]

Theory:

#screenshots-and-videos message

Sky Children legitimately do not know how to climb ladders. The purpose of such technology completely eludes creatures with an instinctive ability to literally fly.

"What do you mean? Why would you need the assistance of an object in order to travel upward? That just makes no sense."

[balmy spoke]

Reminds me of the wl in vault above a ladder, trying to jump up it is like.. yeah we don't know how to climb stuff, but we can fly.

[sharp lichen]

Repeat after me:

Ladders are useless

[reef fulcrum]

That one is just so sized that you can kindof JUMP from one rung to the next, but that's not exactly how it works. Not exactly OSHA approved, no.

[hushed steeple]

Ladders are neato!

Did I say it right?

[hushed steeple]

OOPS, ALL ALDRIN!!!
Cough hack hack
dead

[tough sky]

Ladders are also part of my question of why are some things so big even compared to ancestor spirits while some are normal sized
(Especially with the Citadel, the stairs to get to it are giant but the stairs at the Citadel itself are normal sized)

[lyric imp]

while i realise leviathan is much larger, i'd say sanctuary whale is also much larger than cavern whale.
regarding manta-whale relationship, they do have similar styles and i can't see another example of a large winged creature that's not a manta. however, i concede for entirely different reasons - i realised that whale's fins/wings don't cover the entire length of its sides and the whale, contrary to the abyss mural. and also, the creature presented there does not have a tail fin
however, to me it mostly goes to show that the proto-leviathan was an entirely new, unique creature. since lower manta pictures present creatures that aren't seen anywhere else, it seems pretty clear that the ancestors were somehow experimenting on mantas, either by combining them, or by 'genetic' modification from birth or something. thus, i'd still argue that the creature in the mural has come to be through such experiments and that it did become the leviathan. regarding the size difference, i see 2 explanations. either the creature grew, or the picture is just not to scale, and i think i opt for the first one, since i don't think the proto-leviathan would have been that much thicker than the girth of a manta, perhaps several mantas combined
i just don't think devs would drop such a hint and then it turns out that this big thing here is unrelated to this big thing in game or this big thing on the mural is unrelated to the ancestors' story. it just wouldn't make sense narration-wise
and additionally, half of the concept arts for the leviathan are just huge, dark mantas. it doesn't mean that leviathan is a manta, but that devs had some corrupted manta things in mind when creating it, so probably the manta amalgamate theory is correct

and one more thing regarding this. i examined the pictures of reef in the map and the attack of a creature in the second reef mural. the creature in both pictures has many eyes and the curved horn jaws, for the lack of a better word, as well as several protrusions from its sides, perfectly lining up with the leviathan. perhaps they did manage to somehow lure it into the containment zone after it broke free...

[hushed steeple]

Most of what you say I agree or don’t have a problem with. But the sanctuary whale?
I’ve been up close to both that whale and the cavern whale and they are more similar in size than you think. Also, the ouppy and the switch trailer creature have similar style fins.

[lyric imp]

ouppy?
okay, the switch trailer thing i can agree with
and i have also been very close to both whales, out of bounds in the cavern in one of the cases, to be precise

[hushed steeple]

Honestly, it looks mor similar to this.
Also, the ancestors never actually confronted the creature. It’s mural shows it chilling with some fish in containment showing it likely became corrupted in containment, and no way would the ancestors let it out. We also see it can’t escape nor seemingly cares to escape on its own.
And the ancestors most certainly could not handle that thing on their own, they can’t even handle krill.

[hushed steeple]

Ouppy are the cute seal like creatures introduced in this years days of nature.

[reef fulcrum]

Ok we're gonna need to come up with something else to call those things.

We all agreed on "Krill" for Dark Dragons because Dark Dragon is a mouthful, but I honestly can't figure out how I'm even supposed to pronounce Ouppy.

[lyric imp]

looks kind of like this, but still the elements in map and mural creature add up with the current version.
tbh the escape part still doesn't make much sense to me, but i don't think they'd casually add another sea monster that doesn't show up in the game, add it on the map and a mural, and show leviathan proper basically nowhere. might be a questionable lore design choice, but i still think both pictures represent the leviathan

[hushed steeple]

What if the mural, instead of depicting a confrontation that happened, is instead a warning.

[lyric imp]

[hushed steeple]

Aw-p-py

[lyric imp]

oh wow, that actually makes sense

[lyric imp]

əʊpɪj

[hushed steeple]

Mmmm, yes, I know exactly how to pronounce those characters!/j

[lyric imp]

ough like in dough and ppy like in puppy

[tough sky]

I would pronounced it /u:pi/

[reef fulcrum]

OP

[lyric imp]

lol, actually yes

[sharp lichen]

It’s either “oohpee” or “owpee”

[median onyx]

Are children of light a natural phenomenon that occurs with the conjunction of the spread of darkness or just a race of people?? Which one

[tough sky]

By children of light do you mean skykids or winged light?

[median onyx]

Sky kids, mb for not clarifying

[nova totem]

Yk, what is this place? Why is it green, whilst all of prarie has crisp blue skies? Something happened here I swear, and I think it has something to do with the workshop. The spirit is shown to be here with someone else, and they’re moving large jugs across the room. Certain jugs have non-burnable dark plants in them (could be ‘rot’ or just what they were carrying). Also, a lot of the jugs are broken and exposed and I’m assuming something got out of those jars which caused a catastrophe. I’m also wondering WHAT ON EARTH THE BOAT + DOCK IS FOR!! they have nowhere to said to, and building it in the water to then transport out makes no sense. Perhaps when the workshop was still,being used, there was another section that maybe led somewhere, but it’s long gone.

This is just my theory, feel free to add on/change it.

[hushed steeple]

I think it might be due to the light reflecting directly on the water in such a bright beam like an indoor swimming pool.

I think the boat may also just be for transportation across the water, especially on the other side maybe, cause ancestors don’t like water.
It could also be a boat they took out of commission for whatever reason. But it was likely used for transportation of goods.

[azure saddle]

Simple question; is skykids really kids? Are they ageless?? Do they mature overtime??? Just a simple question.. if they do mature do we just call them a skykid because we don't have anything else to call them??

[hushed steeple]

They are kids, physically and mentally, but don’t appear to age.

[median onyx]

They are simply light that descends from the mega bird and they look like kids so they are called sky kids, do they age?? We haven’t seen a sky kid live long enough

[young gull]

hi lorechat, ive never chatted here but i just want to ask an question and i feeled like its the right place to ask
do (honestly) yall think that when seasonal spirits turn onto stars or leave, if the guide has bonded with them, the guide will miss the spirits a bit?

[pastel brook]

[somber moss]

Skybot being a nuisance in lore chat again

[hushed steeple]

Welp, there’s your answer./j

[young gull]

rip

[somber moss]

But being real I feel like the season guides def miss their spirits, I imagine it could of been emotional for the Passage guide to see their students ascend

[earnest briar]

Well, Traveling Spirits exist, and these group visits show that they can descend back to the Kingdom freely. So they're not gone forever! They can always come back to visit.

[hushed steeple]

I’m sure they can come and go to orbit as they please so it’s not that sad. Besides, they’re already dead.

[somber moss]

Every time I remember that all the characters are SPIRITS aka they are ghosts it kinda makes me a bit sad seeing how some of the spirits are children,, I feel bad for em

[hushed steeple]

Pleading Child

[young gull]

imagine guide gets annoyed and said "thats it" and purposely go to orbit to calm themselves after a seasonal spirit annoy them

[earnest briar]

Think of it this way. The Seasonal Spirits are stuck because they have something preventing them from being able to ascend. Once we help them complete whatever they're staying for, they're able to ascend to Orbit and find peace. But they're not stuck in Orbit forever either. They're able to come and go as they please between the kingdom and Orbit now.

[hushed steeple]

Guides usually stay in the kingdom, but I guess flight guide just got too stressed after the wasteland incident.

[young gull]

for me, they aren't 'stuck' on orbit. they just chill there for some years and when they feel to pay a visit to guide/skykids, they do!

[somber moss]

REALL I mean we literally bond with the season guides as we do their quests too so I guess they choose to stay because they are friends with our skykid and stuff,, we can always complete dailies like “hug a friend” with them too so I guess they can leave to orbit or come back whenever they like

[earnest briar]

They really needed a break I can't blame them, considering a Krill nearly got into the Wind Paths.

[hushed steeple]

By the way, this is krll:

Whle

[young gull]

wait wait.. then gratitude guide and rhythm guide just got too stressed handling their ss and instantly when season ended they just ⭐

[hushed steeple]

No, they were just homeless.

[young gull]

aw, glad that tgc for the next seasons gave guides a place

[young gull]

anyway ty lorechat for answering this

[lusty merlin]

I always like to think that’s the case! And to me it makes the concept of death more of a bitter sweet thing than somthing tragic because of a loved one dies, they can always come back down to visit, it still hurts but always you know they’re still here. Like to imagine on holidays or “days of ___” events pre kingdom disaster there would be a meteor shower of spirits returning to visit family and friends :,)

[tough sky]

Did the pleading child really die a child or did they die later but the reason why they're still here is something that happened when they were a child andthat would be the reason why we see them as a child (or maybe they became a child again for that reason)

[keen shore]

Probably the first one, sadly

[nova totem]

Descend from the ‘mega bird’? What is that?

[tough sky]

The big light thing we see at the end of the game

[nova totem]

Uh
The door before we rebirth?

[lusty merlin]

This lad here first image you can see if you look straight up in orbit ingame and the 2nd is at the ending credits

[nova totem]

Oh my god it’s beautiful why didn’t I ever know about this

And it’s confirmed we come from it?

[lusty merlin]

Unfortunately no but it’s a common theory a lot have, I like to think of life begins and ends with them but other folks might have differnt ideas on how involved they art

[nova totem]

Ohh okay
I don’t know what to beleive

Tbh I think someone needs to have a one-on-one lore talk with me and explain like creation theories because I have NO idea

[lusty merlin]

Sky is really open when it comes to their lore, something i like and dislike so there’s few ways you can go wrong about it. Can imagine sky life began like how our life began or can take a more fantasy approach

Though there are limits to ideas and theories being unnecessarily edgy and disturbing but that’s really the only limit

[tough sky]

I will start by saying that this is my idea and I am not telling it to debate, I want to work on this interpretation alone so please, do not try to correct me

I think skykids are personnified light sent by megabird to give light back to the Eden
I think Eden was once full of light and used as an energy source but it shattered when all of its light was drained out from it

But also
When you begin the game (at least in the French version, I don't know how much was lost in translation), the narrator (maybe megabird? Or a personification of it) says that we are back into this world and it asks that we bring light and guide spirits that stayed so we might be reincarnated ancestors

[lusty merlin]

The dialogue of us returning is in all versions of the game, buts it’s only a first new play-through only line. I believe it’s even implied in the steam pc page for the description which I find super intersting

[tough sky]

I started a new playthrough specifically so I could get all of those things (and do seasons again because I missed so many things the first time)

The narrator also implies that it is an ancestor
Instead of the megabird, it could be the king

[lusty merlin]

Like to think it could still be megabird, but that’s mainly of my headcannon of them being a collective of all the ancestors that died

[tough sky]

When do we see it?
Before arriving in orbit or during the credits? I can't remember

[lusty merlin]

Like when we see megabird?

[tough sky]

Yes

[lusty merlin]

Explained it here so basically after we ascend in orbit and after the ending credits

[tough sky]

OK

I thought about the collection of ancestors thing as well
If we are a reincarnated ancestor coming from it, it makes sense too

We do see the spirits with us when going to orbit and (I'll have to watch the credits again to be sure) I think it makes sense that when we go through the door, we go to megabird, waiting to be reincarnated again

I asked because I didn’t think about the fact the ancestors probably can go through the door as well anyway to join it, we just don't see it because they're not ready (if they were, no traveling spirit and we couldn't meet them on their constellations either)

[median onyx]

The mega bird is believed to be the origin of light in sky and everything made of light will end up back at the mega bird at the end of their life to be reincarnated

[lyric imp]

i think you have a point, though i wouldn't overthink the air colour too much. iirc it's similar in cavern, meaning it's more connected with lush green vegetation. possibly darkstone/power diamonds or something related could have been carried in those crystals which was then used as inside of the golden bells to provide the energy to make them spin. some of the jars got shattered which lead to minor darkstone pollution, and thus growth of dark plants. note that the water in the cave doesn't take away light, so the pollution wasn't large in sacle

in terms of the dock, i'm not entirely sure. Esther might just be right on this, but you may be right, too. especially since the workshop has a window from the side opposite to the rest of the prairie i think

[nova totem]

Ohh that makes sense. I actually didn’t think about how the stuff inside the jars could power the bells. Thank you!

[median onyx]

The elders are believed to also have a connection to the mega bird and it’s believed the elders are from a different world, the spirits at Eden which you give light to are spirits that were trying to return to the mega bird after death but darkness took over I think, I can’t remember.

But darkness basically stops creatures of light from reincarnating and returning to the megabird i think, correct me if I’m wrong

[lyric imp]

do we have proper evidence of mega bird tho? how much do we really know about it?

[tough sky]

That it exists
I think without going into concept arts (and maybe Light Awaits) that's all we know about it

[median onyx]

No it’s just a popular theory maybe the mega bird isn’t the origin of light but just another creature, it’s referenced a lot though with the elders supposedly being connected to it and drawings of people worshiping the megabird

[median onyx]

There are ingame drawings on the forgotten ark of the mega bird being worshipped so it’s defo a high being of some sort

Tbh wouldn’t say worship but people know if it’s existence

[lyric imp]

tbh i'm not entirely sure this is how it works. i feel like a spirit we see in game is more of a permanent memory of an important moment rather than actual soul. otherwise it'd mean that all the spirits died at approximately the time they have their memory. this would mean that basically all the spirits from passage completed the rite of passage and then died (which is tbh a little funny imo)

[lyric imp]

where do you see the mega bird here? to me it looks more like some hard to specify scene from the forest, bc umbrellas. they seem to be surrounded by stars or some kind of lights, since this is the same symbol that's used for blessings and color lights

[lyric imp]

[tough sky]

Kriiiiiiiiiiiill

[median onyx]

Well it doesn’t ever look like a typically bird the only thing you can really get is the shape of a beak from a sort of line of light there, there is another one from the secret place as well that’s more clear

[lusty merlin]

It could be both

[lyric imp]

extreme stretch imo

[median onyx]

Maybe because it spreads so much light in the sky world and other worlds imo that it’s definite shape is never available

[tough sky]

It does look like megabird
But I feel like the drawings on the ark mostly represent spells so it would be a bit out of place

[lyric imp]

that's slowly starting to sound more and more like christian apologetics

[median onyx]

The mega bird in the end credits

[lyric imp]

how do you know it's mega bird?

[keen shore]

Yeah ⬆️ this is as far as we know correct. You’ll rarely see Megabird shaped like an actual bird, its shape in depictions especially are very vague and impressionistic. Here you can see it more resembles the galaxy we see in orbit

[median onyx]

The mega bird has an outline that you can clearly visualise in mostly everything with its prominent curved beak

[keen shore]

I’m trying to describe it accurately because very weird situation, but we don’t know if Megabird is still a thing or was just in concepts. We know the Light is a thing and that it is often associated with that shape katrocket posted and often depicted in murals too as swirls of light or stars. You can see it on the wind paths arches also iirc

[median onyx]

There are probably many depictions of what the mega bird looks like with only children of light and the elders knowing what it actually looks like imo

Most of these drawings were probably drawn by ancestors and spirits and not elders and children of light who have a better connections and understanding of the megabird (well it couldn’t be children of light 😭)

[lusty merlin]

Yeah that too, I feel there’s like some concepts that transferred into the game so the actual shape of them can be stylized a lot

[keen shore]

As well as it being generally hard to depict what is often conceptualized as the entire universe in a small mural

[lyric imp]

can someone explain to me where this notion came from in the first place?

[median onyx]

It’s hard to get it’s definite shape due to its gleaming light in the reincarnation scene and the drawings from the spirits who never really saw it

The mega bird looks so much like this picture I always see about the universe but I can’t find it 😭

[lusty merlin]

Yeah true, I think most just have a general idea, idk how far you’d need to be out to fully see them as a spirit. Since in the credits a planet to them is a grain of sand

[lyric imp]

guys, but where did you get the idea that there is such a thing and that it plays such a role? where did this even start? explain like i'm 5 or something

[hushed steeple]

[lusty merlin]

This is lore chat, we discuss a lot of possibilities, just because we talk about one thing doesn’t mean it’s cannon. It’s just one of many ideas we’re talking about

[tough sky]

Whaaaaaaaaale

[lyric imp]

Esther, remove the spaces between emojis maybe

[keen shore]

The concept of Megabird came from concept art and is a really common…. headcanon? theory? it often mixes. We know the Light exists from a lottttt of splash text but it is often conceptualized more as a force or place rather than a divine entity and that it is often associated with that bird shaped galaxy you see in orbit. Personally I believe that everything that was originally Megabird in concepts now became the Light in final, but will still use the name Megabird for convenience sometimes

[lyric imp]

okay, now it makes sense

[keen shore]

also calling other people’s ideas ‘notions’ is a bit rude

[median onyx]

One thing the megabird always reminds me of is the laniaka supercluster of galaxy’s

[hushed steeple]

[sterile orchid]

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaale

[hushed steeple]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaale!!!!!

[lusty merlin]

I though of that too when I first saw the supercluster in a image cuz I do think some insp was taken from it

[lyric imp]

how so? sorry if you received it like that, wasn't my intention, though i genuinely want to know what makes it seem rude

[median onyx]

The great attractor is the head of the mega bird??? Nah I’m just reaching cus it’s funny

[fickle wing]

hi does anyone wanna hear a hc i have abt fire prophet

[hushed steeple]

I think it degrades it and sounds like you’re calling the idea dumb or something.

[rigid iron]

YES

[lyric imp]

though notion meant merely 'a conception of or belief about something.'

[keen shore]

The word choice implies you’re not taking the idea seriously as a possibility, when all ideas are worth considering. The word ‘notion’ is commonly used to imply less of a logical foothold than words like ‘theory’ or ‘idea’; more connotation than anything

[lyric imp]

hm, okay, noted

[hushed steeple]

The English language has like 20 different sub definitions per word depending on context, I know, confusing.

[fickle wing]

so like
that hole in the prophecy cave right
yknow how cats just spring up n JUMP n since fire proph has that lion mask n is eligible for the goofy feline beam someone pointed a laser pointer up @ the ceiling in the cave n they jumped n that’s why there’s the hole

[rigid iron]

this is canon to me

[lusty merlin]

I feel fire prophet should have daily laser time

[fickle wing]

enrichment‼️‼️‼️

[tough sky]

It is now something I accept

[hushed steeple]

FEATHER/BELL TOY FOR FIRE PROPHET!!!!

10 hours and 13 minutes till season of moments and Sky’s anniversary’s begin!!!!

[rigid iron]

i think fire prophet would enjoy a pumpkin full of hamburger

[fickle wing]

THEY ABSOLUTELY WOULD

[tough sky]

And I have an appointment an hour after it does with both being quite early so I will be awake and unable to play...

[keen shore]

Do we think fire prophet is affected by catnip yes or no

[tough sky]

Does catnip exist in the world of sky?

If it does

Yes they are

[median onyx]

Oh yeah y’all believe the theory that the prophets had a prophecy about darkness corrupting the sky kingdom?

[lusty merlin]

There’s krill cats so I think there would be an equlivant to catnip in sky

[fickle wing]

prophet ENRICHMENT
fire: laser pointer
water: pool full of plastic balls
earth: knitting
air: jungle gym (with bar to hang upside down on)
prophecy: bee eating

[tough sky]

I want to join water prophet

[fickle wing]

or throw proph a frisbee idk

[rigid iron]

prophecy will never escape the eated bees allegations 💔

[lusty merlin]

I don’t think there was anything in the prophecy murals that would suggest it so I’d say no

[rigid iron]

this actually made me curious on what they give turtles for enrichment so I looked it up hamburger ball for fire, lettuce ball for water

[fickle wing]

LETTUCE BALL…..

[tough sky]

Still want to join water prophet

[fickle wing]

remembered that fire proph is vegetarian thanks to the ts hints filling their pumpkin with this

[rigid iron]

Water prophet 💖

[tough sky]

Where does the Prophecy Guide eating bees come from?

[hushed steeple]

Yes, the fire trial seems to depict this.

My enrichment is cuddles.
That’s it!

[rigid iron]

dogs eating bees 💔

We had a very sophisticated discussion about it a while ago #lore-discussion-spoilers message