mild berry
in my opinion
If TS go to paid only (which I know might not even happen, but still), it will greatly dampen how much I enjoy the game. TS are expensive enough for me as-is, putting it behind a paywall...
@fathom mauve I will feel the same way as currency is really terrible it is awfully expensive for me to get an adventure pass and will definitely mark down my experiences in the game
eager ferry
I found it via youtube too 
I thought it was a PC game at first because of how cool it looked before I noticed the controls 
had to get it right away after i saw that
stark sundial
game awards 2019 
but I also knew about it from 2018 when was called lights awaits cause I wanted to know what did tgc after Journey
olive tide
As I understood it, the FULL TS won’t require a payment, just those things that were originally in the seasons adventure pass
spark lance
i thought tgc would make a good strategy to keep players from leaving their game ( with the onset newer and better games). but this update will put the last nails on the coffin for sky it seems.
valid terrace
Sky is my current sustenance; it’s one of the few things keeping me from imploding entirely from anxiety.
Let’s just make sure we push that concept away and tear it to shreds.
fathom mauve
As I understood it, the FULL TS won’t require a payment, just those things that were originally in the seasons adventure pass
@olive tide
Yeah but that sucks arguably even more!
grave jetty
As I understood it, the FULL TS won’t require a payment, just those things that were originally in the seasons adventure pass
@olive tide This is correct, but that is the problem. The paywall never comes down, driving a permanent and highly visible wedge between paid and free players. This should not be a tiered game.
eager ferry
https://discordapp.com/channels/575762611111592007/583370574449999880/761780858868203540
To those who are concerned about the TS Update!!!
olive tide
^
sand rune
Also the krill farts are so much much more Co plicated now
Beta is for devs to test anything they can tbh
It's beta
fathom mauve
@olive tide This is correct, but that is the problem. The paywall never comes down, driving a permanent and highly visible wedge between paid and free players. This should not be a tiered game.
@grave jetty
THANK YOU!
covert hollow
Oh i just saw that
Huh?
Why put it in beta at all if it wasnt intended to go into live XD
lyric kite
Because they're testing it, which is what beta is for...
eager ferry
To see how people react to it and the feedback!! Which is one of the reasons why beta even exists 
teal helm
Beta is literally the testing grounds for sky
kindred fossil
they're still experimenting, there could be more systems on the way, price changes, so and so
valid terrace
Please put your opinion in #beta-feedback .
Please do it for everyone’s sake.
grave jetty
Because they're testing it, which is what beta is for...
@lyric kite You don't put things into a beta environment without at least initial intent to move it forward. Except for debugging tools (like pins-as-spells), it makes zero sense. "Just for funsies" does not happen.
sand rune
GRRRR I CAN'T SEE THE KRILL FARTS CMON LET MEEE INNNN
covert hollow
I mean
You test it, so you can put it into live
But here it says its not going to live at all
???
Im confused
Edit: Xehrebec, my thoughts exactly, thank you for making it clear
lusty light
Ktjn has said that it’s not planned to go live. Testing can mean anything, it’s just a thought that they have
It doesn’t mean it will go live
stark sundial
@grave jetty you have invisicape as an example 
read the pins first please
fathom mauve
My personal view is a resounding NO, in regards to the TS update as it currently seems to stand. I'd be fine if AP got people discounts, but I don't want it paywalled.
fathom river
Guys. Wth? A number of people in live already doing the trials. Can't they just wait. It's in 2 days. Sorry I'm kinda upset
spark lance
to think that they put the premium ts feature is already good reason enough to assume where the future of sky is going and what the devs intend it to be in the future
eager ferry
Guys. Wth? A number of people in live already doing the trials. Can't they just wait. It's in 2 days. Sorry I'm kinda upset
@fathom river wait wh at
lyric kite
Also the shepherd system has been in beta forever with no immediate attempt to move it to live. Just because things in beta usually go live doesn't mean that everything will right away. I would listen to what the devs have to say instead of just assuming things
empty river
even if they have an intend to put it in live, it doesnt mean it would happen any time soon, look at the things that have been in beta for over a year now!
near forum
Heeelp?
about the new beta method, for the purchase of items of the travelin spirit.even those who win a friend’s pass won’t be entitled to pass expressions?
grave jetty
@grave jetty you have invisicape as an example
@stark sundial Invisicape is a debugging tool (and they do bring up the possibility of putting it into Production from time to time). Weak example.
lusty light
Invisible cape is not a debugging tool? Devs have their own dev builds of the game, if it were a debugging tool they wouldn’t let us have access to it
stark sundial
There are no plans to bring this to Live at this time.
it's basically saying for now there's no plans just like the invisicape @grave jetty that's your example
when they mentioned is a debugging tool?
empty river
pretty sure the only thing you can call a debugging tool in beta is the pin spell stone in home
tight bloom
About the resounding no, well, I already see some people agreeing on the new TS system on feedback while I was writing mine. Sooo, maybe they are the silent majority 
fathom river
I already reported 4 players having the new emotes in live. There's this annoying one I couldn't report, he was glowing like the one when we finish the trial and he was playing an instrument BUT he could change to any sound, be it a guitar or xylophone, flute. Makes me mad
lusty light
Anyways, there was a feature in beta where you could access all past seasons at the constellation stone in orbit, it was something a designer put in just for testing and got removed shortly after, this doesn’t mean that the devs are planning to make all seasons free next week or something
Please don’t talk about hackers, just report and move on
grave jetty
Invisible cape is not a debugging tool? Devs have their own dev builds of the game, if it were a debugging tool they wouldn’t let us have access to it
@lusty light They let us have pins-as-spells. That, too, is a debugging tool. They give us access as needed to test different situations. Certainly they don't give us access to ALL their tools, but sometimes it's necessary.
kindred fossil
@near forum i'm not sure who started this rumor, but i'm certain you'll gain access to AP locked items regardless if the pass was a gift or initially bought
lusty light
That’s not what a debug tool is
harsh robin
I can discuss beta things here right?
vast gorge
Omg so many paragraphs
spark lance
i think the invisible Cape is a feature in sky, while the premium TS will be a system of sky.
empty river
and they especially said that thing is only for testing purposes and it wont make it to live. Every other feature like the shepherd system and the invisible cape is NOT a debugging tool, they're features they test in beta before they make it to live, if ever
eager ferry
everybody gangsta until elders start talking
harsh robin
So is it true that tgc made ts ap in beta? I literally came across hashtags in twitter o.o sky stop now something
grave jetty
That’s not what a debug tool is
@lusty light It's not what a debugger is, but there are many other ways to test things. I could call them test harnesses -it would certainly be more accurate to software development terms- but it's also not a term as many people understand. I sacrificed some precision for accessibility. I stand by that decision.
lusty light
#beta-announcements @harsh robin it is not planned to go live
fathom mauve
Anyway, to TL;DR my opinion, I don't mind if AP gets people a discount, but I don't want it paywalled.
wanton canopy
^^^
spark lance
Does anyone else keep glowing through the game after ending a trial? Or is it just me?
undone chasm
Me! Lol
surreal night
Zeryle don't please what bruh?
lusty light
Beta is a testing playground, the invisible cape was originally added as a joke, it might evolve as something further or it might not, but to basically say that the devs are lying about the things they choose to test is not ok
harsh robin
#beta-announcements @harsh robin it is not planned to go live
@lusty light 🙏hoping...
hollow cloak
I see that the discussion is still going strong, three hours later. 
Seraph, you are an absolute trooper. I can't imagine how many times you've had to repeat yourself. 
grave jetty
Does anyone else keep glowing through the game after ending a trial? Or is it just me?
@spark lance Known issue, at least in Beta. Not sure about Live.
stark sundial
Bazriel... don't please 
lusty light
What do you mean by “nonsense” I can’t really do anything if I don’t know what the issue is
jade sundial
AP Discount for TS sounds good. I feel I am spending 5 times the money or time for cosmetics compared to what people spent during the season. And that didn’t even include the ultimate reward.
wanton canopy
Honestly I don't know why they'd change things about ts, if it isn't broke don't fix it
empty river
they're trying new things because of player feedback, they don't do these things out of nowhere
fathom mauve
Seraph, I would like to thank you for your patience. I hope you know that I am not attacking you or the Devs, just the idea as it was originally presented.
surreal night
Zeryle don't please what?
spark lance
for me the new measures to preserve the prices of the articles with respect to the TS are correct, it is the best way to preserve their exclusivity, but idk
covert hollow
God
The very fact that this came about is worrying
Why did they even bring up the paywall?
Did they not predict that people are going to be mad?
kindred fossil
though one of the reason (at least mentioned) that the system is proposed is because of burnout, as much as i like the idea of a discount system, i still feel that wouldn't really solve one of the issues with the TS system
lusty light
They just want to see how people feel
grave jetty
for me the new measures to preserve the prices of the articles with respect to the TS are correct, it is the best way to preserve their exclusivity, but idk
@spark lance Exclusivity is literally the entire problem.
wanton canopy
But wouldn't making you pay for bits of ts ruin one of the original purposes of them? I like the current system because it rewards those willing to work for items while not making them completely free or cheep as to belittle people who were there for the season
stark sundial
be wholesome and kind while expressing yourself please even if you think someone else is completely wrong calling their msg "nonsense" can come as rude
fathom mauve
for me the new measures to preserve the prices of the articles with respect to the TS are correct, it is the best way to preserve their exclusivity, but idk
@spark lance
I don't want them to be exclusive, though! That just drives the wedge between ftp and ptp players deeper! Again, if it goes live, I don't mind if AP gives people a discount, but to paywall it is the issue.
empty river
thats the point of releasing this info to testers this early, to see what people think. Its not like they expect absolutely everyone to be happy with the change
lusty light
People who pay for passes complain about traveling spirits being “free” so the devs said, okay what if we made it so you would still need a pass for those past exclusive items? As a hypothetical question
sand rune
I'd say a pass discount would be better than a pass lock tbh
But yall calm down this ain't goin live
Hell they could just be bringing this up for a suggestion that would fit in the middle ground
surreal night
I didn't point fingers
kindred bluff
anybody found that vacation rock yet? 
lusty light
I don’t like the idea but this is why they are asking
quick ingot
We all just gonna test the AP discount for now (everyine in beta can get the AP) so let's just test it and see how we feel about it and how much discount do we get, ,,,
grave jetty
People who pay for passes complain about traveling spirits being “free” so the devs said, okay what if we made it so you would still need a pass for those past exclusive items? As a hypothetical question
@lusty light And then went so far as to drop it into Beta without even asking. Why do you think people distrust this "not intended for Live" thing?
covert hollow
I thought it would have been pretty obvious that the backlash would be huge
Why bother?
also i thought they were the minority? Makes no sense for them to change up a system that the majority is happy with for the minority
lusty light
The devs don’t need to ask our permission for things lmao? It’s their game
They add things and ask what we feel about it
empty river
its almost like....beta is used by the devs to drop features that they want to see if they would be good additions to the game 
fathom mauve
My middle ground? Give AP buyers discounts. There you go. Not trying to be a jerk or rude but that's my stance.
kindred fossil
@kindred bluff it's the rock very far into the island, it has a star on it
it has always been there since the beginning of sanctuary, i'm unsure why they are bringing it up now
wanton canopy
But disregarding the community is a huge nono for such a community based game like sky
slim kayak
Uh... they put things in beta to test things. They don't have to ask for our permission to put it into beta. The fact that they are testing for us to give feedback is great! Imagine if they just decided to skip the beta testing and just release this new system to live 
grave jetty
The devs don’t need to ask our permission for things lmao? It’s their game
@lusty light Not for permission, for input. The devs are not required to get permission, but they are not entitled to be trusted.
quick ingot
WE CAN TEST THE SYSTEM AND GIVE FEEDBACK, THAT'S WHY BETA TESTING EXISTS, THEY GAVE US SOMETHING TO TEST, CAN WE JUST TEST IT AND SEE HOW IT GOES?
lusty light
They are asking our input. Literally right now
stark sundial
even if we don't point fingers sometimes people can feel identify when you give just a little context
also I want to find that rock so badly
seraph the 2 minutes are really needed now?
sand rune
Yeah people gettin a bit angsty over the news
Two minutes is needed
empty river
if they had released the change in live without even asking then yea it would be disregarding, but they're doing the right thing and letting us know about the thing waaay ahead of time so we can tell them how we feel about it!
wanton canopy
previous updates that have had huge backlashes have also made it in anyway. I'm not trying to throw hands or anything, whatever happens happens and we just gotta deal with it. I really do appreciate the beta system and how we get to test stuff but sometimes I feel like they just do stuff anyway.
maybe I'm just a dummy
fathom mauve
Rock??
valid terrace
Can a lurker give feedback in Beta?
lusty light
Sure but make sure you understand the whole situation first
runic path
I came out of a idea, what about a adventure pass for travel spirit?
Like after buy the ts ap. You can get discount up to 6 spirit. Ts comes remain randomly, but you can choose to use the discount or not.
covert hollow
It feels counter-intuitive
Like asking "if i dip my hand into lava, will it hurt?"
When u alrdy know it will
Thats why im confused
grave jetty
They are asking our input. Literally right now
@lusty light Several builds too late. This is the kind of question that should have been asked before the implementation was pushed to Beta (or ideally, even written).
vast bayBOT
Ktjn
harsh robin
Like the game came late to android late so andy players deserve ts cos too freely right? Also not everyone can pay o.o
wanton canopy
ye I really do like the idea of the pass making it so there's a discount, that way it's not pay-to-get but it also offers perks to those wanting to use actual money to get stuff
kindred fossil
a pass for TS specifically i recall has been proposed by a few members way back when the TS system has been first introduced, you could read the feedback channel back then
empty river
its not like we havent had features in beta for over a year that havent been implemented to live yet, right guys? 
kindred bluff
gosh yall, this isnt live
we are beta testers
we test potential content for the live version and its important to give our imput but saying "they should've asked" doesnt sound right, like imagine giving someone a gift on their birthday because youve been friends with them for a few months and they say "you should've asked me first"
tawdry tree
Some people like to bug hunt, I love hax hunting at live rn
Reported 2 kids using the Proph emotes at Live already
mild panther
~~Especially things like invisible friends in sanctuary ~~
sand rune
I have go a bit off this topic to ask for help on the fire trial
The second stage literally funnels players into the path of not one but TWO farts.
HOW
dashing through is not possible since candles recharge way slower now
Waiting at the open ish area where one fart will go right through your path might be possible but still recharge time too long
How.
half cypress
I was hoping the arguing would have settled down by now 😅
There is a #beta-feedback for a reason.
wanton canopy
Lmao I love that u call them farts, is that what everyone calls them? If so, glorious
hollow cloak
I don't understand why people are distrusting TGC so hard all of a sudden. It's not like they "pulled one" on us. By signing up for beta, we've agreed to test whatever they throw at us.
If they give us a buggy build, we deal with it.
If they try new currency, we deal with it.
If they reprice items, we deal with it.
And they constantly ask us for feedback in each update. (Really, read Ktjn's updates. She always says to please leave feedback).
As long as it doesn't hit live, it's really nothing. Beta is for testing specific features. Currently, we have the full game of Sky to play through. But if they wanted us to only test Eden, they could remove the rest of the game and stick us in rock rain whenever we log in.
Literally, beta is just for testing and feedback. It's not indicative of the real game. It just happens to be very much like the real game in its current state.
grave jetty
They've already got a full implementation; this is not "very early" in the process. Early would be design-phase, not implementation.
valid terrace
What should I do when reporting hackers to not make it obvious what I’m doing?
worthy lake
Is it ok if this is my new home? 
sullen relic
voluntary, try not looking directly at them if you can; face in a different direction then tap on their character
tawdry tree
What should I do when reporting hackers to not make it obvious what I’m doing?
@valid terrace
Stroke their ego is my technique. Clap emote until they bow. Light em up. Continue clapping while reporting them
mild panther
What should I do when reporting hackers to not make it obvious what I’m doing?
@valid terrace they won’t know that you reported them. Just light them up. I already spotted 4 on live LMAO
tight bloom
@valid terrace play dumb That's what I do anyway
covert hollow
Huh
We r not giving anything.
We are (or at least, I am) worried about the devs motives
Nobody pulls a paywall at the minority's suggestion
Even if its in beta
Something that has been free for abt a yr now, now they suddenly say "hmm, what if i add a price tag, lemme ask the beta ppl!"
Thats sus
rain delta
@grave jetty exactly which indicates to me that the team has been thinking of doing this for a while :( so I have a feeling it will go into live... the system for traveling spirits will get revamped...
wanton canopy
This whole situation gives me flashback to a certain deep calling change cough cough
slim kayak
I mean... the translator has been in beta for months and it still hasn't gone to live for reasons unknown. Same for the shepherd system. Not everything will make the cut.
eager ferry
the word ''sus'' activates my fight or flight instincts
fathom mauve
Good, Kom XD
kindred fossil
both systems are almost fully implemented too, makes you thonk
tawdry tree
Reporting hackers in Live is my new 'bug hunting'. It's so fun
mild panther
Not stonks tho
thorny fulcrum
This whole situation means 2 things
∆ TGC wants money
∆ TGC needs money
Understand the difference
worthy lake
I love this place
wanton canopy
Dang I'd really love a translator in game, I have lots of foreign friends I can't talk to 
valid terrace
I have nothing against the latter but the former can lead to highly concerning things
fathom mauve
This whole situation means 2 things
∆ TGC wants money
∆ TGC needs money
Understand the difference
@thorny fulcrum
Could be both
Dang I'd really love a translator in game, I have lots of foreign friends I can't talk to
@wanton canopy
Same, I'm always curious what the boats are saying!
covert hollow
Probably wants
Google their revenue
hollow cloak
I'm not sure how to explain the concept of a "beta" in clearer terms than that
Really though, why does bringing up the idea that a company needs money trigger ideas that they're an evil, greedy corporation? Folks, businesses need funds to run. Especially if it's a free-to-play. They aren't getting steady income from each download.
spark lance
Someone had a great idea today. If you don't have an ad pass nothing changes and you grind. If you do have an ad pass the new system is what you will have in the ts friend tree.
This is all I have to add to this topic except y'all gotta remember to keep it civil.
rain delta
I wish they would be clear on which one it is - are the TS really hurting the sales of the passes???
kindred fossil
they did mention they are revamping the system, i don't think this is final either, so there will be changes in some form or another
tawdry tree
Again, TGC spends 50 million to keep Sky alive
I'll go back to Hax hunting.
orchid nexus
Could be neither. It could be that they've been honest and TGC wants to balance the game better because many have complained both about grind and about fairness between Pass buyers and free players
runic path
Tgc is a game company. There is no worng for they to want more money tbh.
But it's our choice to play or not.
thorny fulcrum
@fathom mauve it's impossible to be both at the same time ... That's why they are different ... (Dang this slomode)
slim kayak
The shepherd system has been in beta for about a year now, still not in live
So who knows how long this will stay in beta.
sand rune
And honestly I really don't think fully implementing the season pass lock would take a lot of time since it's jsut reactivating the boundary there
It isn't like
"oh they should've asked during the design"
It's a system that exists and they're just testing having it extended to TS
There isn't much "design" imo
mild panther
I hope that not every cosmetic from ts will need ap
fathom mauve
Could be neither. It could be that they've been honest and TGC wants to balance the game better because many have complained both about grind and about fairness between Pass buyers and free players
@orchid nexus
That is another possibility. My POV remains that they shouldn't be paywalled, but discounted for AP.
orchid nexus
There's really no point in making bad-faith assumptions and arguments here. This is an experiment they are trying IN BETA
valid terrace
Just keep in mind it’s an experiment.
kindred fossil
@tawdry tree and... where did you even get that statistics from...?
grave jetty
Again, TGC spends 50 million to keep Sky alive
@tawdry tree The problem isn't money. This actually makes AP cosmetics cheaper for paid players in the long run; TGC stands to lose money here, not to gain. The problem isn't greed (or if it is, then someone is being very foolish). The problem is creating a tiered game because a few people want to be exclusive.
thin shell
I hope that not every cosmetic from ts will need ap
@mild panther that will happen, if the cosmetic didn't need pass during its respective season
rain delta
For instance with a lot of the prophecy spirits at best, you’d get a mask or spells without the AP, so if the spirit comes back as a TS that’s all you would have as well ... and that really sucks... if I already got that, then TS really don’t matter much to me anymore
wanton canopy
I feel like alot of the people who are complaining are newer people, which are the majority. I got a feeling tgc will always focus on majority and have the game's best interest in mind. But that'll probably be at the expense of veterans
orchid nexus
It's not planned to go live. It's not guaranteed to ever go live. and they are putting it in beta specifically for this feedback
tawdry tree
I hope that not every cosmetic from ts will need ap
@mild panther
Hope you dont lose your marbles when the comes to Beta
mild panther
@mild panther
Hope you dont lose your marbles when the
@tawdry tree i already have this emote fully upgraded. Every enchantment emote tbh
i wouldnt mind though, saving candles at its finest
half cypress
I am utterly disappointed how entitled some of the community is towards a free to play game with a feature that was initially implemented as an afterthought. As many of us know, we are not obligated to pay for or play Sky. The Travelling Spirits are a gift, not a right.
orchid nexus
@half cypress it's also not necessary to disparage members who have different opinions. Money is personal and means something different to all of us
wanton canopy
Ts don't even affect me in live rn- I've been here for every season so far and I'm kind of going off of what my friends have told me
sand rune
Yeah honestly some points are a bit of a drag rn, it's just beta and I'm quite sure the devs are very open to suggestions
Whether it's fully implemented or not isn't really a solid point to be made on
tawdry tree
@tawdry tree and... where did you even get that statistics from...?
@kindred fossil
Seraph mentioned it hours ago
fathom mauve
I feel like alot of the people who are complaining are newer people, which are the majority. I got a feeling tgc will always focus on majority and have the game's best interest in mind. But that'll probably be at the expense of veterans
@wanton canopy
With full respect here: 'At the expense of Veterans'? What 'expense'? The pain of seeing a new player loving an old item?
hollow cloak
To the people talking about every cosmetic for TS needing the Pass:
Only the items that were tied behind the Season of Belonging Adventure Pass will have the AP restriction, and will be marked with the Season of Prophecy symbol.
Don't forget to re-read the actual update to make sure you're discussing the correct things 
swift edge
I think TGC should make possible for us to give the pass early for friends, so they could get TS stuff
tiny umbra
I am utterly disappointed how entitled some of the community is towards a free to play game with a feature that was initially implemented as an afterthought. As many of us know, we are not obligated to pay for or play Sky. The Travelling Spirits are a gift, not a right.
@half cypress some people were being rude, yes, but you know that us wanting this aspect of sky to stay free isn’t because we’re cheap and entitled right? Some people won’t be able to participate at all if ts items are pass locked
tight bloom
I think the belonging part is typo tho? Why singling out Belonging of all seasons?
grave jetty
So the Season of Belonging is exclusive now? There's irony for you.
spark lance
it's not about tgc, it's about the people who wanna distinguish themselves as " I'm rich and you're poor, so look up to me cuz I'm exclusive"
slim kayak
Just to be clear: not everything that is being tested in beta will make it to live. We are testing to find bugs and give feedback. I understand that a lot of you are upset, I too don't like the change. Give feedback in #beta-feedback and we'll see what the devs do to improve/fix the system.
And please be kind in your feedback. Someone has to read all of it 
kindred fossil
@tawdry tree i'm certain seraph was mentioning the player base (which is 50 million), not server hosting costs...
small kindle
they say every spirit behind belonging, I think that includes gratitude and lightseekers (and possible belonging). Its unsure due to wording
hollow cloak
Guys. The Season of Belonging is not exclusive.
If you read the update, it's referring to that in the context of this current TS. The current TS is for Belonging. That's why they mentioned it.
*Edit: okay maybe it isn't Belonging, I don't know the seasons and spirits well. My bad
valid terrace
Kabuki is Gratitude though
must be a mistake
orchid nexus
remember not to take this into personal attacks everyone. we can all be friends if we remember there not 2 sides to the discussion and debate; there are thousands of sides and we're all part of it
fathom mauve
@half cypress some people were being rude, yes, but you know that us wanting this aspect of sky to stay free isn’t because we’re cheap and entitled right? Some people won’t be able to participate at all if ts items are pass locked
@tiny umbra
THISTHISTHIS!
I'm not saying 'people who have been here longer aren't allowed to enjoy things' I'm saying 'Children and those who don't have money to spare shouldn't be forced to do this if they want everything the older players got'. The AP items are already crazy expensive compared to every other item in the spirit tree, why make it worse??
tawdry tree
@kindred fossil oh my goodness. Thank you for clearing that up for me
grave jetty
Of course this isn't guaranteed to go live. This whole hullaballoo is about ensuring that it doesn't go live.
rain delta
@half cypress the other thing that’s really important to keep in mind, is how the current TS system has actually helped to increase the active player base— and in before someone argues about friends, music, spells in the game... please read my earlier argument on this last night... 😔
tiny umbra
I think to understand why belonging specifically requires an ok understanding of the vet/moth traveling spirits controversy, traveling spirits were introduced during rhythm, so those players already had the idea that their cosmetics weren’t completely exclusive,
Players pre belonging didn’t have that idea and felt they were lied to, so this is One idea, a test of what might make it a bit more fair
mild panther
It’s still a beta thing. Imagine what would happen if that actually went on live. Channels would explode
small kindle
personally i feel the idea could use some work, such as owning the pass will allow discounts for people, but I feel its unfair to those who do actually put in the hard work to grind for candles and set up heart trades because they want the TS
thorny fulcrum
I would also like if they make a counter measure ... That is announce ts even earlier (if possible, idk how ts draw works) so that players can decide if they wanna grind or not. If 2 weeks is the gap ... One week announcement is sufficient.
What u guys say?
covert hollow
Well, i'd take it as a good sign
If there are ppl here placating the rightfully mad people with "it wont go to live, dont worry"
Then it sure as hell means the response is hella negative
Now to see if they'll actually listen....
tight bloom
But the behind part doesnt refer to seasons behind/pre belonging. It refers to items locked behind Belonging AP. Right?
eager ferry
me, silently waiting in the corner for the argument to end so I can vibe again:
queen musk
Ahem... Shouldn't we just trust the devs? I'm sure they're beautiful people and care about us 
We left our feedbacks, they heard us. Everything's gonna be alright. This chaos should stop.
grave jetty
When the price of a console or game drops, this is not unfair to the people who paid before. It is the same with items.
kindred fossil
vibe in a more calm channel, please
orchid nexus
This discussion is not about ensuring anything. Let's all be considerate not only toward each other, but also make a good-faith assumption about TGC: they are trying to balance the game to help with concerns that PLAYERS have expressed loudly. We should actually try the new setup, and contribute to the discussion.
elder musk
Since tgc is planning to ask money for previous season cosmetics, why not consider this (activating “old” items on new customer accounts adds cost to tgc to run the game so it’s understandable they are considering to charge for it somehow). Why not sell old season passes at discounted prices. The spirits are already there in the game, they just need to be activated (they could be made visible like regular spirits to relive but flame will only appear if a person has the relevant pass). If let’s say someone wants to get Rhytm spirits, they buy Rhythm AP, and all Rhytm spirits get activated for them. They will have x amount of days (e.g. 2 weeks) to work on the spirits. Previous pass holders could complete missing spirits too. I am sure this new system will require some tweaks, but I am wondering if it’s ever been considered?
half cypress
@orchid nexus That is true. I apologize for appearing condescending to those whom feel negatively about my opinion; I wish the best for everyone.
hollow cloak
It’s still a beta thing. Imagine what would happen if that actually went on live. Channels would explode
That's why we're testing it, so only beta explodes instead
Also thank you for explaining that, @tiny umbra, them specifying Belonging like that makes much more sense now. Maybe we're panicking over only one season, in reality?
orchid nexus
@elder musk If you send it to #beta-feedback you'll have a better chance of devs hearing it
fathom mauve
I think to understand why belonging specifically requires an ok understanding of the vet/moth traveling spirits controversy, traveling spirits were introduced during rhythm, so those players already had the idea that their cosmetics weren’t completely exclusive,
Players pre belonging didn’t have that idea and felt they were lied to, so this is One idea, a test of what might make it a bit more fair
@tiny umbra
'More fair'?? Is it fair to make people who really want something but can't spend money to pay??? $10 Can be a person's meal budget for 2 days, spending money on these things is a luxury.
sand rune
Also I noticed how there really isnt a way to head back out to the cave past the first stage in the fire trial and you can only go home
And tediously head back to the cave from the beginning again
regal lichen
@tawdry tree The problem isn't money. This actually makes AP cosmetics cheaper for paid players in the long run; TGC stands to lose money here, not to gain. The problem isn't greed (or if it is, then someone is being very foolish). The problem is creating a tiered game because a few people want to be exclusive.
@grave jetty
"A few" is actually thousands of players, if not more. These players are making TGC money, and this money keeps the game alive and pays the employees. Exclusivity has been a thing since centuries, people do pay for exclusivity not only in games, in real life too. That's just how the world works, even if you don't agree with it. Don't paint these players as the enemy, I'm sure a lot of them work hard in real life to get the money to buy stuff in game, and they're actually entitled to exclusivity whether we like it or not, they're paying for it.
thorny fulcrum
@elder musk 2 weeks wont suffice at all ... Also what currency do u expect them to use may i know?
harsh robin
Is it just me who feels that it s 50/50 like i k money is imp also for people who bgt it needs it to b exclusive but new players and people who cnt buy i ll feel bad for them too
orchid nexus
We can't solve the problem of "some things cost money so not everyone can have." But we can appreciate the value that free players bring to the experience of playing the game. I get to hang out with people of many different backgrounds in Sky 
fathom mauve
We can't solve the problem of "some things cost money so not everyone can have." But we can appreciate the value that free players bring to the experience of playing the game. I get to hang out with people of many different backgrounds in Sky
@orchid nexus
Yep! Hence why I think there should be a discount for AP, but not a paywall! :D
grave jetty
Exactly. There is zero "unfairness" in price drops. The correct response to these players is "Thank you for your support in adding these items to the game", and ignore the toxicity.
covert hollow
Exclusivity wouldve been acceptable
If the android players had a chance to be part of the "exclusive" gang
Now we're stuck with keeping things fair to past pass holders
And to the android players who couldnt join in on the exclusivity parade as much as they would have wanted to
rain delta
I think I really like the idea of bringing back past season passes at a discount idea — and people can instead choose what spirits they want.. but idk even that breaks what TS brought to the table — investment into the game
spark lance
@grave jetty
"A few" is actually thousands of players, if not more. These players are making TGC money, and this money keeps the game alive and pays the employees. Exclusivity has been a thing since centuries, people do pay for exclusivity not only in games, in real life too. That's just how the world works, even if you don't agree with it. Don't paint these players as the enemy, I'm sure a lot of them work hard in real life to get the money to buy stuff in game, and they're actually entitled to exclusivity whether we like it or not, they're paying for it.
@regal lichen If an item was paid for at the time, why should it be free later? people who have bought the AP at the time see how people buy their things for free
warm bison
Free players don't just bering diversity to the game, they are also part of the reason paying players stay in the game.. they're an important part of the community and if there isn't balance and stuff that keeps them in the game, it'll only go downhill from there
small kindle
i feel like this change doesnt take into account those who physically cannot afford the VERY inflated prices of the pass in some countries. They could give money to a friend in another country for a gift pass, but the user cannot get TS off season unless gifting outside of seasons is implemented
orchid nexus
I hope some balancing/changes are made to the concept as well, and I know from what Ktjn has said that this is still early in the design process and may change radically based on feedback. I hope they consider something like higher candle/heart cost for free players vs pass holders.
thorny fulcrum
Exactly. There is zero "unfairness" in price drops. The correct response to these players is "Thank you for your support in adding these items to the game", and ignore the toxicity.
@grave jetty players? I dont get it
hollow cloak
Going to re-quote this, I feel like I understand this better now.
Only the items that were tied behind the Season of Belonging Adventure Pass will have the AP restriction, and will be marked with the Season of Prophecy symbol.
This is only my interpretation but:
I think this means that currently, maybe only one season is having AP cosmetics locked behind the current AP.
That means that your Rhythm pants are safe. Your Enchantment capes and hats are all there. You don't have to panic.
Like Lyze said, maybe they're doing it just for the seasons where they told people that the cosmetics weren't coming back.
wanton canopy
I think one of the things is that ts made it so you didn't need to pay anything to get the cosmetic, it offered a money-free way to get them if you can't afford a pass. And that's an amazing system. But if tgc intends to remove that then there's really not much of a point to a ts- Why not just bring back the whole season? Then that plays into ultimate gifts, I think it's just easier to keep the system we have in live currently
mild panther
I hope some balancing/changes are made to the concept as well, and I know from what Ktjn has said that this is still early in the design process and may change radically based on feedback. I hope they consider something like higher candle/heart cost for free players vs pass holders.
That would make people grind candles even more, and that is the exact opposite from what TGC wants i think
grave jetty
@grave jetty players? I dont get it
@thorny fulcrum The ones whining that their cosmetics aren't exclusive anymore.
orchid nexus
nobody should panic. this is beta, and it's an experiment
harsh robin
i feel like this change doesnt take into account those who physically cannot afford the VERY inflated prices of the pass in some countries. They could give money to a friend in another country for a gift pass, but the user cannot get TS off season unless gifting outside of seasons is implemented
@small kindle yepssss...even i came late i pre registered thou but came late to andy...bgt two ap -3- nd i ve hrd some sounty peeps say its cheap but its not cheap here
rain delta
@hollow cloak I’m pretty sure what that meant to say was “the season pass of the corresponding season of the traveling spirit” the wording is wonky but it really does mean that
worthy tulip
I personally feel that the deal that, given that only the items that were season locked are being locked again, it is fair for the fact that old players paid for the pass when there were no Travelling Spirits.
The only thing I would ask, and I'm going to put it in feedback, is that if it ever does come to Live that they make it so you can use your season pass gifts on your friends before the season starts. That way it is more fair for people who rely on their friends for season passes and so they can enjoy the travelling spirits too
tiny umbra
'More fair'?? Is it fair to make people who really want something but can't spend money to pay??? $10 Can be a person's meal budget for 2 days, spending money on these things is a luxury.
@fathom mauve it’s more about making up for what they were told than it is the money they spent, if it were for the money they wouldn’t specify belonging
I don’t like this idea any more than you do, I’m just saying that tgc’s intent is in the right place,
thorny fulcrum
@thorny fulcrum The ones whining that their cosmetics aren't exclusive anymore.
@grave jetty they are exactly 50% reason for this ... Thing ...
grim mortar
Gratitude ?? is the current traveling spirits I think, they do have this specific spirit behind a paywall atm in beta when in live it’s not sooo (my bad lol not belonging i get thise two mixed up)
small kindle
Ill be honest, this change wont effect me at all (if its ever implemented) as I buy the pass anyway. But I would rather spend time grinding with my friends for a TS than watching them not get a TS item they want and I get it discounted/free
orchid nexus
I remind everyone participating in discussion to please speak only for yourself, not for what you think "all" or "most" or "some" or "few" players think or want. Each of us has an important point of view, but choosing a "team" and planting a flag won't help TGC to balance this experiment.
upper needle
the current traveling spirit is from gratitude NOT belonging 😐
hollow cloak
I’m pretty sure what that meant to say was “the season pass of the corresponding season of the traveling spirit” the wording is wonky but it really does mean that
Except apparently this TS isn't even for Belonging, so...
Saying that the items tied to Belonging AP encompasses all of the spirits for that season.
Keep in mind that Ktjn's English is perfectly fine, so it's not a localization issue. I think she probably said what she meant.
kindred fossil
alex, can the message where ktjn specifically says there are no plans for it to come to live be pinned? it doesn't mention that in the announcement, and it would be nice to redirect people to that message with ease
spark lance
when people talk about things bought in game and later given for in-game currency is unfair, i wonder if sky is the only game they played in their life ,like ever.
slim kayak
the current ts is from gratitude though... so i'm interpreting the statement about belonging to be that the pass lock is for belonging, lightseekers and gratitude, since ts were not introduced then. but maybe i'm wrong
harsh robin
Its not fair thou for new andy players :0 yeps and yeps...i cn get the pass too but i came here after lots of frnds got disappointed cause of the news...they always want it but they cnt get it...they r smol or its not cheap for them...
worthy tulip
@tiny umbra
'More fair'?? Is it fair to make people who really want something but can't spend money to pay??? $10 Can be a person's meal budget for 2 days, spending money on these things is a luxury.
@fathom mauve
Are fancy cosmetics themselves not a luxury? People paid for these cosmetics before, and it's not every cosmetic which will be locked. I find it fair personally
rain delta
@fathom mauve it is fair in all honesty... and you don’t have to pay for the items ... since the TS will bring back the original free items as well. Please be respectful of the fact that not every person who purchased the pass was a rich kid who could splurge money, some people probably saved up for it, in essence even by sacrificing a meal or two...
covert hollow
@spark lance exactly XDD
Entire games go free when enough time has passed, to entice new players and such
Keeping TS f2p keeps quite a large number of players active on the game, so its good to keep it
grim mortar
The best route so far that a lot of people have said is to just make the traveling spirits a discount or free for those who buy the pass and keep the regular prices for those who don’t buy the season pass. It would encourage more people to buy the season pass if they can afford it without excluding people who can’t.
tight bloom
I still feel it's a typo, tho. they meant to make Belonging as an example but will actually affect all TS.
thorny fulcrum
I would say to compensate the loss of cosmetic that non pass players lose ... The grind to buy the stuff they even get should be easier ... For example : less wax for a candle (again idk how this system works ... Is it a server thing or can they actually do it)
orchid nexus
@tight bloom Or it might mean that it will only affect current and future seasons, not older ones. But that appears TBD to me
spark lance
@grim mortar
I put the suggestion in #beta-feedback . I hope others have and will.
hollow compass
@kindred fossil I don't see a need to do that, since it is quite clearly a feature being tested in beta, where we test a million different things that sometimes make it to Live, sometimes not. People really need to learn to separate apples and pears. Posting information about things in beta to the general player base is not a good idea and is always discouraged.
Lol, nvm. Alex pinned it. 😄 (Not that I think people will read it anyway, because they never do. But it's good to have easy access to it.)
orchid nexus
kindred fossil
well, thank you alex!
minor robin
I think we’re also focusing on a portion of this bigger picture: Ktjn says this was brought up because players complained of the grinding/pressure to buy white candles to afford TS. This TS adjustment is only one proposed hypothetical solution.
I personally believe that Candle Runs themselves could be improved: faster dark plant burns, pre lit candles in Birdsnest/Citadel, tiny detours with low candle bunches could be moved to a bigger central bunch. Shave 1.5hr CR into 1hr CR. And on top of that would be great if AP holders could have a discount off certain TS items that previously required AP.
There are many possible solutions, it’s a matter of settling down and reflecting on what your pain points are and to think about what else could be improved 
hollow cloak
I still feel it's a typo, tho. they meant to make Belonging as an example but will actually affect all TS.
But... Why do you want a typo? It's far worse if they're implementing it for all TS.
We want the TS to be largely unaffected, yes? So why blow this up on the assumption that the devs made a mistake and called it something much more drastic than it could be?
grim mortar
I also submitted to #beta-feedback and everyone def should!
I actually didn’t buy season pass for sanctuary but if they had given me traveling spirit discounts I would have bought season pass so even if people don’t like the cosmetics for the current season they could still benefit from the pass and also more money for Sky (I did for enchantment bc I liked the aesthetics)
covert hollow
What
If the grindy feeling was the main reason, just have a double cake event before each TS!
Simple, effective, does not break what is not broken
orchid nexus
Wyiott bings up a good point: what other than price structure could be improved to relieve pressure from candle runs for players who focus almost exclusively on obtaining TS cosmetics?
rigid wharf
when people talk about things bought in game and later given for in-game currency is unfair, i wonder if sky is the only game they played in their life ,like ever.
@spark lance
It's the first ever game that I'm making IAP on
worthy tulip
Reminder for all to submit your feedback, but to also be polite about it. You may all be concerned over the cost of the passes, but remember respect costs nothing 
hollow compass
@minor robin pre-lit candles might interfere with daily quests that require lighting candles. 😉
mild panther
There's also something like candle converting when the season concludes
minor robin
And like, for inbetween seasons... ok so maybe people can’t get AP in time for the proposed discount: then have 2x wax during the break. That’s a solution.
Blep: that’s why I only specified two maps where I think they’d work best. Cause those maps encourage really fun flying
spark lance
for real tho, who's here arguing like a villian yet whale into the game, but is against the idea of premium ts for the sake of their friends in the constellation in live. 🖐🏻
orchid nexus
That season-end candle conversion is only good for like 2 traveling spirits 😄
slim kayak
double cake every 2 weeks? I don't really know how to feel about that, makes those events feel less special. But I agree, there are loads of ways to improve on candle runs. I've been hoping for faster dark plant burning for a while now.
thorny fulcrum
There's also something like candle converting when the season concludes
@mild panther 1:2 should do it ... 1 seasonal candle convert to 2 normal
small kindle
if u regularly CR the season bonus is like a good cushion in the bank, so u can take more breaks
pine remnant
ive been thinking this for a while, but i feel like TSes should stay around in their seasonal constellation after you’ve relived them. if we’re given more time to complete them, that might eliminate the need to AP lock at all and also eliminate stress of « oh gee 3 days to get all these cosmetics »
tiny umbra
What if a really hefty spirit comes after the candle conversion, all your candles wiped
orchid nexus
@spark lance I'm not quite a whale, but close enough... and i'm here arguing in favor of F2P players not being shut out completely
harsh robin
for real tho, who's here arguing like a villian yet whale into the game, but is against the idea of premium ts for the sake of their friends in the constellation in live. 🖐🏻
@spark lance yeps for frnds...have lots of young frnds and those who cnt buy nd feel sad even for ultimate gifts and seasons :0 i even feel bad using exclusive items in front of them...not in a bad way
covert hollow
Wow
Give more ways to earn candles lol
Achievement system? Daily quests giving more? Increasing cakes?
I can think of these right off the top of my head
Putting price tags on sumtin free for a yr shouldve been a last resort
Sus
hazy kraken
Does anyone remember where the new seasonal area is because I forgot and I’m to lazy to lazy to check
thorny fulcrum
if u regularly CR the season bonus is like a good cushion in the bank, so u can take more breaks
@small kindle thats exactly what i want
orchid nexus
@spark lance #questions-and-help might be a good place to ask
hollow compass
@minor robin gotcha, although the lighting candles quest is very often timed with Valley, so having citadel candle pre-lit wouldn't be such a good idea. Or they could just get rid of that old quest.
I still wish they would bring back some of the old beta quests, btw. The ones that Nastymold went through in one of her throwback videos.
hollow cloak
I'm FTP, but I'm playing devil's advocate because it seems like there's a ton of negativity around TGC now. And I don't think that TGC should be shot down for one idea they put in the beta.
Do I want to be able to buy out the Blow Kiss spirit? Yes. Yes, absolutely.
But TGC doesn't need to be disparaged like this.
minor robin
In Beta there used to be shard-collection quests that would give a candle. Maybe they could be done every other day or weekly. Some of them I heard were pretty tough but could lead to more team play and group work
hazy kraken
Does anyone remember where the new seasonal area is because I forgot and I’m to lazy to lazy to check
tight bloom
if getting candles is too easy then some ppl wont be happy either. That's why TGC raise the price in the first place right? So it's not too easy to get cosmetics?
spark lance
i have friend who can't use visa due to national ban, some who starve to get the pass, who literally can't afford while paying for College, and people who think they don't belong or isn't accepted anywhere, except in sky.
harsh robin
Does anyone remember where the new seasonal area is because I forgot and I’m to lazy to lazy to check
@hazy kraken isle...below tht flying cave place
tiny umbra
I like the idea of the fix being tied to the season candle conversion, people who grind for every ts in the first place are the people who are in sky for the long run, if we got more candles from our sc to last us a good quarter or so of the next season we would only need to candle run for our regular constellations
thorny fulcrum
Just 4 simple quests can be replaced wid hard ones and more rewards ... So grind won't take up time
hollow compass
I don't remember any shard collecting quests. But we did have candle quests similar to the manta call in Citadel, as well as actual races in Valley.
mild panther
i have friend who can't use visa due to national ban, some who starve to get the pass, who literally can't afford while paying for College, and people who think they don't belong or isn't accepted anywhere, except in sky.
@spark lance they might as well use paysafecard, works for me since i can't pay online with my card
orchid nexus
Here's another idea that probably has been discussed at TGC and here: what about making TS cost seasonal candles? What would happen to season economy if that were the case?
warm bison
That sounds like pure disaster I can't pinpoint why tho
spark lance
I don't understand why they would want to change the current system of the ts, it takes a week to collect enough regular candles to buy out the whole node. It takes an hour or so with friends to run through all the zones, I personally think the system is fine just as it is 🤷♀️ it makes the game fair to me because they're giving a lot of candles but you just gotta actually play to get them. Idk I guess I just don't understand.
pine remnant
if that were the case, alex, dontcha reckon live would need the same 11 seasonal candles per day as beta !
turbid wraith
Takes more than an hour for most actually
lunar zealot
The old quests that took place in each realm, those where fun! I do wish they could be brought back, so that newer peeps can explore how those quests where. They gave a candle, but maybe it could even give more than one, since currently with the TS and everything in between— white candles are quite an important currency
gilded parrotBOT
the traveler ||hides beyond the trees||
harsh robin
2 hours xD
spark lance
i don't know why they would want to fix something that's not broken.
minor robin
Belp: oh man I wish Velo were here, she was the one who showed me them and they looked so fun 
Like she said the one around valley ice rink had shards that zoomed really fast and it was a challenge to get them
hollow cloak
Costing seasonal candles was one idea that occurred to me, yeah.
The question is, then, do you buy from the current TS or the current seasonal spirits? How do you get both?
Do they increase the income of seasonal candles, or lower the cost of current spirits?
worthy tulip
Thanks skyrock
orchid nexus
no, there are plenty of extra seasonal candles at the end as we all know from conversion day. and you can buy extra if you can afford it
ebon gale
I ask the people responsible for sky not to change the way of obtaining items from the traveler, I love the game but it cannot become pay for play 😢
eager hatch
Im excited for new season but kinda weird that we get a second handstand emote
Also feel the fire spirit should be earth spirit xd
warm bison
Only extra for the people who have been there at the beginning of the season tho ..so it feels like it's not the best idea
tiny umbra
There was that one oob exploit during enchantment where the juggler spirit was chilling in the valley sunset stadium and you could buy stuff from them if you had enough seasonal candles maybe something similar ?
turbid wraith
Not enough for all ts in season and the spirits @orchid nexus
lunar zealot
Oh it did Wyiott! It was such a pain to collect, literally a pain. You did feel really accomplished in the end though. I remember the Praire one well, it was quite simple so coming from that into valley daily “shared-quest” was quite the difference
orchid nexus
@ebon gale you can put your thoughts in #beta-feedback if you want devs to see. and by all means include specifics about how you play and how you would be affected.
spark lance
Seriously just saw a post on IG talking about oob'ing into the Caves in Live. I cannot comprehend why folks cannot wait TWO days.
hollow cloak
no, there are plenty of extra seasonal candles at the end as we all know from conversion day. and you can buy extra if you can afford it
Sure, that works at the end! But for the TS that comes mid-season, you'll have to choose what to buy first.
That means saving candles once the season starts, just in case the TS that comes mid-season is one you want.
mild panther
Seriously just saw a post on IG talking about oob'ing into the Caves in Live. I cannot comprehend why folks cannot wait TWO days.
@spark lance i already saw some people using emotes from prophecy when the season is not even out yet
orchid nexus
@turbid wraith Right, and the point I'm making is: would that be enough for free players? then they would be able to get some not all without paying, would have choices about how to user their season candles, and paying players would have the chance to obtain older items faster.
hollow compass
Alex, I don't see how that would work between seasons. Do you mean that candles would never convert?
Wyiott, the only one I remember from Citadel was triggered by meditating in front of that dead bird and then flying around catching sparks, just like you do for manta call.
fathom mauve
Seriously just saw a post on IG talking about oob'ing into the Caves in Live. I cannot comprehend why folks cannot wait TWO days.
@spark lance
Yep. I'm stupid excited, but I have neither the time or patience to OOB into the caves. Plus I wanna play with everyone else.
thorny fulcrum
Here's another idea that probably has been discussed at TGC and here: what about making TS cost seasonal candles? What would happen to season economy if that were the case?
@orchid nexus the only fair way would be to add the candles where they were during the season ... Every candle in all realms which is 8 candles in 5 realms .. which gives 2x5=10 candles / day ... And the 14 day gap makes 140 candles to have ... So now tgc has to price every spirit within 140 ... (Maybe some spirits had less than 140 as cost the remaining candles could be converted after ts leaves ... Then the candles collected after the ts will be used for next ts)
woeful urchin
Smh are people that impatient already... JUST WAIT OML ITS NOT HARD PLEASE
tender oasis
I'm a pretty new beta but if you sit in birdnest on that grey circle (idk the name) sometimes the meditation music starts and shards appear for a few secs. Are those the remnants of these shard quests?
covert hollow
Im not for it
Having TS cost sc would be very, very confusing.
Nah
slim kayak
imagine live peeps oobing into fire trial
just wait a little longer or the dust bunnies will get you
eager hatch
Smh are people that impatient already... JUST WAIT OML ITS NOT HARD PLEASE
@woeful urchin it's not like it breaks the game tho
turbid wraith
@turbid wraith Right, and the point I'm making is: would that be enough for free players? then they would be able to get some not all without paying, would have choices about how to user their season candles, and paying players would have the chance to obtain older items faster.
@orchid nexus thats just unfair though
orchid nexus
And remember: Keeping everything obtainable as free items is not the only definition of "fair"
calm flare
Hi again here to say I'm excited to do fire trial in live
fathom mauve
And remember: Keeping everything obtainable as free items is not the only definition of "fair"
@orchid nexus
Yes, but making it so that things are not accessible for ftp players is not "fair" either.
warm bison
True, there needs to be a balance but I don't think we'll find it in TS using seasonal candles, this might mean f2p folk not even getting the free seasonal items in time
mild panther
Imo the fact that we are getting the traveling spirits from previous seasons is fair, it's still better than not getting them at all and being hurt that we can't have these cosmetics/items
spark lance
I'm just glad they didn't put the caves in as early as they put Sanctuary in. They had to do a new build with a stronger barrier.
orchid nexus
Since TS can repeat, it is entirely possible that F2P players could eventually access all older items, but at a slower rate
hollow cloak
OK, trying to play piano while watching Discord isn't working.
I'm going to get going.
Stay respectful, everyone, and don't forget that you're talking to real people! Don't forget to submit your great ideas to #beta-feedback so that it can be officially considered by the devs!
eager hatch
And remember: Keeping everything obtainable as free items is not the only definition of "fair"
@orchid nexus definitely not fair for developers work
Btw holy time restrictions
covert hollow
Exploring the cave area (not actual prophecy cave, just the entrance) is a cool new oob tho hehe
It aint against the rules is it? Chibi glitched in pretty easily
dire reef
fire man is now santa claus, dress him in a santa outfit
kindred fossil
no, not really, because you really can't gain access that way
orchid nexus
I'm not advocating a solution right now, just thinking aloud and enjoying the exercise of imagining a way that could be less restrictive than a simple paywall, but more restrictive than the current setup while also reducing grind
warm bison
Since TS can repeat, it is entirely possible that F2P players could eventually access all older items, but at a slower rate
yes, which is basically a big drawback for being f2p which balances it out. It's not the fact that "oh you can get the items for free anyways so why pay for AP" it's more like "you can choose not to pay for AP but to get the items you want you'll have to play for a much much longer time with more grinding" etc
spark lance
I have a feeling that sky is going to end up like those RPG games or "free to play" games that rely heavily on players buying "unnecessary" game items like cosmetics. Or they'll end up making an exclusive game mode where there's a new area for subscription players only, idk. It'll cause a split between the community and some people will stop playing because they can't afford to buy the cosmetics or enjoy the mechanics aside from base-game quests.
slim kayak
now i need to see santa and fireboi standing side by side
hollow compass
Candle quests in old beta were available in Birds Nest, Prairie Caves and Citadel. There was also one in Prairie Villages which required two players to complete by flying from island to island picking up things on the ground in tandem.
severe sluice
I'm sure you guys are putting forth your views and discussing on here, but dont forget to rest and take care of yourselves!! I'm now gonna head to bed 
thick lion
This game is completely free to play. It's only pay to look good, and I'm fine with that
That's not game breaking vs games where payers put in $100 a month just to have endgame weapons to one shot monsters
eager hatch
I have a feeling that sky is going to end up like those RPG games or "free to play" games that rely heavily on players buying "unnecessary" game items like cosmetics. Or they'll end up making an exclusive game mode where there's a new area for subscription players only, idk. It'll cause a split between the community and some people will stop playing because they can't afford to buy the cosmetics or enjoy the mechanics aside from base-game quests.
@spark lance i mean the game is the story and the playing with friends all objects are not necessary for the game
orchid nexus
@eager hatch That's true ... and yet... the urge to collect is strong with many of us
warm bison
It's true that said, theoretical/main objective is to enjoy with friends and all but you cannot deny that cosmetics is a very big part of sky gameplay
lunar zealot
The urge to collect is very strong. But the urge to build friendship is also strong. It’s like two forces pulling each other
spark lance
@eager hatch still, the elephant in the room is that cosmerics are what actually make the game fun to play. the base game cosmetics become boring over time, players like to collect, some making art with their characters.. its like saying the purpose of the Sims is to just play a sim and not buy expansionpacks. itll get boring after you've done everything; you're gonna want new things
thick lion
So long as the wing buffs/hearts don't get out behind a paywall, xD besides some of the free cosmetics are good looking. Just some are.... Better looking.
turbid wraith
Cosmetics are great for expressing yourself and taking that away is a bit eh to me
tight bloom
Cant deny that cosmetic is important. That's why TGC made many IAP exclusive cosmetics because there's a demand for that.
orchid nexus
I feel pretty strongly that TGC will keep the core game mechanics as entirely F2P, and that experiments with non-core (i.e. cosmetics) will be done with great care because they know cosmetics are probably one of the biggest factors in player retention
eager hatch
Yes i can regret my moth days bc i missed some ts cosmetics and I'll love to have everything but still in bc i have friends to play if and the current system is totally fine for me if u want more cosmetics u can pay 10dollars and if not there are a lot of cosmetics still in the free constellation
I definitely don't see they addin some pay to enter zones
iron nacelle
cosmetics are the biggest reason for the game to be running honestly
rain delta
I guess the big question now is, they can’t decrease the prices of the traveling spirits... so would you guys rather grind for the spirits and buy candle packs OR AP Lock them? That’s really what it feels like now
spark lance
Seriously, if it wasn't for the cosmetics we wouldn't be as motivated to grind, let alone play the game.
turbid wraith
Dont even need packs just grind
fathom mauve
I guess the big question now is, they can’t decrease the prices of the traveling spirits... so would you guys rather grind for the spirits and buy candle packs OR AP Lock them? That’s really what it feels like now
@rain delta
GRIND. GIVE ME A WEEKS NOTICE AND LET ME RUN.
harsh robin
Grind all the way
thick lion
More time to collect candle for sure/easier to get wax
high girder
They dont have to decrease the prices or increase regardless of how many candles are available cause more updates more areas more wax, just grind and you'll eventually get what you missed. It's a plus for people who were there for the event but couldnt buy the pass
eager hatch
At the end of the day its pretty easy to manage grinding for ts and constellations even more when u finish some constellations and u can save up even more candles and hearts
kindred fossil
there might be changes in pricing per the announcement
rain delta
I never really complained about the grind, but people who did, need to be asked this question too haha whyyy oh whyyy did you complain... 
iron nacelle
having TS cosmetics AP locked is incredibly damaging to the entire community. Charging high prices for IAP's is also damaging but this is even worse. The game runs as large as it does because of cosmetics and a high majority of players cannot afford IAP's so waiting for TS is a huge reason a lot of players continue to play
spark lance
Yes i can regret my moth days bc i missed some ts cosmetics and I'll love to have everything but still in bc i have friends to play if and the current system is totally fine for me if u want more cosmetics u can pay 10dollars and if not there are a lot of cosmetics still in the free constellation
@eager hatch it seems here that you're basing your opinion on anecdotes and personal experience. the reason why we disagree its because
1.) people are poor
2.) players are underage and can't spend money
3.) asking for an adventure pass in order to get access to cosmetics that were promised to return eventually is a paywall.
4.) $10 could be someone's dinner or someone else's allowance. Money is subjective and not universal.
5.) its unfair in general to change a system only a small minority of... selfish players complained about. Sure it was "expensive" but 200+ candles can be collected if you grind every day, and grinding is an essential game mechanic..
6.) cosmetics shouldn't rely on being purchasable, because then it becomes "pay to win" in the sense that in order to look "nice" you need money, which is pretty messed up
harsh robin
Grind is fun tbh...yeps many peeps will leave the game
tight bloom
I love grinding and speed running through realms. If the system comes to live, I don't have motivation to keep playing. Maybe just log in for quest/seasonal candles.
minor robin
I feel tho, that the ability to grind every day for 2-1.5 hours is a privilege. I’m lucky enough to be able to devote time to this but as many people have mentioned.... a significant portion of players are kids/students. I think that Sky should look beyond itself and make the grind easier to foster good life balance in its players by not being overly demanding/pressuring.
This is why I wish CR was shorter/streamlined overall.
mild panther
upcoming IAP's are already pretty expensive tbh
spark lance
founder's cape.. cough
eager hatch
@eager hatch it seems here that you're basing your opinion on anecdotes and personal experience. the reason why we disagree its because
1.) people are poor
2.) players are underage and can't spend money
3.) asking for an adventure pass in order to get access to cosmetics that were promised to return eventually is a paywall.
4.) $10 could be someone's dinner or someone else's allowance. Money is subjective and not universal.
5.) its unfair in general to change a system only a small minority of... selfish players complained about. Sure it was "expensive" but 200+ candles can be collected if you grind every day, and grinding is an essential game mechanic..
6.) cosmetics shouldn't rely on being purchasable, because then it becomes "pay to win" in the sense that in order to look "nice" you need money, which is pretty messed up
@spark lance i mean remember they don't ow us anything the game could be 100% pay to play with a subscription base people should appreciate what we have
warm bison
In my own personal opinion just decreasing 5-7 candles on all cosmetics should do, it might seem like a small amount but that's almsot half the max candle u can get per day.
It'll make grinding a tiny bit easier but not too easy you stop grinding
iron nacelle
the option to skip all cutscenes/ not go in them at all should be in place for after your first run through the game to allow people to cr significantly faster. This would bring in more players who can enjoy and experience the game
turbid wraith
@spark lance i mean remember they don't ow us anything the game could be 100% pay to play with a subscription base people should appreciate what we have
@eager hatch not really what would happen is people would quit
molten steeple
I want to talk about the latest update of the beta. I wish to cancel the idea of buying from souls traveling with Adventure Pass .. There are several reasons that make this topic a little difficult .. The first reason is that there are many people who cannot buy Adventure Pass and play for free .. The second reason is that the game is beautiful by collecting candles for traveling souls ..
bold wolf
Maybe the whole system of purchasing cosmetics is not sustainable. Maybe instead there should be an option of buying cosmetics for your friends. But $5 a piece. Or $1. It's not for yourself. It's for others as in the spirit of Sky just throwing ideas around to think outside the box
orchid nexus
That most of what anyone wants to talk about right now lots to read on that topic above you
kindred fossil
even if i didn't openly complain about the grind, i've been feeling serious burnout for awhile now, you don't realize how much relief i feel when the upcoming TS is something i've already unlocked fully, with only 1 TS left to collect and already done all base-game constellations, i barely hop on the live version and if ever, i stay at home
eager hatch
Remember u don't win or loose bc we aren't in a competition game u can pay to win here
spark lance
@minor robin the only reason me and my friends are able to candle run all maps is by taking turns, which can take either 2-5 hours depending on who's leading. shouldn't it be easier ? imo
@eager hatch I completely disagree. as a game company they do owe us because we're the resson theyre still up and running. video game players keep their companies alive, and to say they don't owe us anything and we should just appreciate what we have is being too positive towards them. criticism is needed to grow, and I personally don't think praising an award winning, millions-in-funding comapny over issues the community is voicing is okay
See, grinding is fine, but to end up not being able to get past season items that were grindable from TS unless you have a pass is pretty unfair to me. I understand they need to keep their lights on, which leads to the increase in prices, but to make it so that we have to pay in order to use the candles we grinded for in TS is honestly disappointing.
Knowing that most of the playerbase is probably underage, they won't be able to get these past cosmetics without having to ask their parents. Which is honestly a hassle knowing that these kids would 90% just get a full no in their face.
Yeah they don't owe us anything since the game is F2P, but even then I feel it's still a problem knowing that there are people who genuinely want these things only to be met with disappointment once the TS arrives
I definitely think they should go back to the original system and just decrease it like 5 to 7 candles like @warm bison said. You should def submit that to feedback
orchid nexus
To be fair, free players aren't the only reason TGC is doing well. They are part of it, and that's by design. But paying players are too.
iron nacelle
honestly, if they made IAP's cheaper, more people would buy which would be much better for growth
turbid wraith
True but i dont really mind missing iap as much as i do ts stuff
orchid nexus
Remember that at the start and end of this discussion, we are friends. And remember that what each of us can afford may be very different.
tight bloom
I don't have many TS items, but when it's one I don't want, I just don't open the game for 2 weeks since I have enough candles for the next one already.
Now if the new system is implemented, there would be many more TS I would skip and just not playing fully for weeks.
eager hatch
@minor robin the only reason me and my friends are able to candle run all maps is by taking turns, which can take either 2-5 hours depending on who's leading. shouldn't it be easier ? imo
@eager hatch I completely disagree. as a game company they do owe us because we're the resson theyre still up and running. video game players keep their companies alive, and to say they don't owe us anything and we should just appreciate what we have is being too positive towards them. criticism is needed to grow, and I personally don't think praising an award winning, millions-in-funding comapny over issues the community is voicing is okay
@spark lance im not paying for extra cosmetics or stuff so I won't claim they ow me their game success
with time also as the mas expand u wouldn't need to cr the same amount to get the candles
rain delta
@spark lance i have a smol ex with clash Royale, the game offers in app purchases to updgrsde your cards or get legendaries for your decks. People complained that the game feels like pay to win, since some players just max the levels of their character cards by buying IAPs. But, there’s something very important to understand here! The cards are the central core component of the game — as such a IAP for them — is the kind of thing the company has to do to stay afloat. That’s just the market mechanics... what could be done to mitigate this, would be to force certain gameplay to auto level all cards to a certain level —- (the game makers of Clash Royale o their part do this)
Coming to Sky! The cosmetics are the central part of the game, akin to the cards in Clash Royale. Many people may say that looks don’t matter in this game and yet the whole point of adventure passes is to obtain the cosmetics. Why else would most people pay for the passes? It’s because you get cosmetics of that season.
So, really the idea of having to pay to look nice, actually makes sense in the context of the game. And if you notice the new season, levels this off, by giving everyone cape less looks in the trials — something similar to leveling cards to level 9 in Clash Royale during tournaments
And as @tender oasis says, the core components of the game — expressing yourself are always in game currency purchases. You can get all emotes for free and you can get the level 1 and level 3 versions for free during seasons —- the level 2 and 4 are just extra flairs added to level 1 and level 3 — so at no point in the game is it really play to win
tender oasis
Poor emotes. Everyone forgets them 
placid linden
Does anyone know if the new ''light'' players prompt is a bug or a voluntary change? I find it so confusing, I don't know if I'm lighting candles, burning plants or lighting other players.
spark lance
honestly, if they made IAP's cheaper, more people would buy which would be much better for growth
@iron nacelle exactly
yes it's less money but it doesn't discourage players who do choose to support financially. to have it not be so punishing to your wallet, more people would be doing so if they do choose to purchase this IAPs
remember when they nerfed the lantern cuz it slightly seemed pay to win, but paying for TS isn't pay to win now.
slim kayak
they took out lighting candles for lantern because it was causing bugs, not because it was pay to win. the other aspects were never implemented at all
iron nacelle
the latern should have been much cheaper for what it is, it provides light yeah and thats all
spark lance
@eager hatch you play their game, you give them popularity, you're active in the community, so yes, they do owe you a good experience. And even if you're content, please try not to silence others by saying "im okay so everyone should be okay too", because right now it seems a lot of players are upset, and that can be insensitive.
@rain delta I understand what you mean, but you gotta understand that having to pay money for pretty cosmetics in a game aimed for children as young as 9 years old comes off as money-based. its not fair to players who are poor or can't afford it, because cosmetics are a key feature and although it makes sense to pay for the unique ones, adventure passes have existed and locked nice cosmetics for months already
eager hatch
I dunno I wouldn't pay for the pass if it was cheaper either unless it's like a something really special not just cosmetics
And yes I know I'm an adult but I also consider what is going to be of this game in dunno 3 4 years imma be here? Cr xd I dunno
rain delta
@spark lance it isn’t, what I would consider to be pay to win, would be if expressing your self — via emotes, was IAP.
minor robin
@spark lance most of the time I either solo or duo and candle runs take me 1.5 hours on average. I do take turns with my partner but wow... 3+ hours is so much time. If Cr took me 5hr each day, I'd burn out quickly. I personally don't do big groups often because it lowers map merges and the leader has to burn stuff manually.
I think the game should balance for this and I've sent beta feedback in asking for plants to burn much faster when more people are holding hands
hollow compass
I hate to say "I told you so", but I kind of predicted that the whole TS system would become a monster of entitlement and expectations that can never be met. Whichever way you look at it, bringing back old (sometimes limited) items will always cause disappointment or anger from both old and new players. I wish that TGC never introduced this system, not because I don't want new players to have access to these items, but because look at this channel. The divide and the frustration! It's stressful to read.
turbid wraith
In my opinion cosmetics express yourself more
kindred fossil
they didn't 'nerf' the lantern because it initially was pay2win, it's because of the potential issues it could bring into the game
it is true that features such as having the lantern recharge your light weren't implemented because that would've been pay2win
spark lance
I understand it being somewhat expensive considering the present situation but to make even more things IAP, like TS items that i genuinely want, in order to get more out of the playerbase is just eh
woeful harbor
I'm just gonna state how glaring it is that we have not had this system for even 24 hours and people have been almost nonstop debating about it as if they know everything since the moment it was revealed to us
rain delta
@spark lance i still argue for the sake of being the counter argument here — because likely this is the same argument the company makes too, the cosmetics AREN’T pay to win, because you don’t need them for the game play. Also the in game cosmetics, there;s a lot of free ones in order to not look like moths. If people can’t pay for better cosmetics, that’s fine.
Tell me in one way, how your gameplay is disturbed in the game, because you don’t have the dismiss spirit’s fur cape
If you can’t think of a reason, then cosmetics are not vital to gameplay.
edgy tangle
I feel like for the sake of discussion it could be useful to have a separate channel for discussing payment related stuff vs in game stuff, since this just drowns anyone else’s ability to discuss levels and other changes
kindred fossil
this happened when TS were first introduced during season of rhythm testing
iron nacelle
it should not come to live at all, AP should not effect how TS functions and instead the TS should just cost less candles per item
tight bloom
I played several games that have P2W cosmetics. But thing is, having cosmetics is not the only thing to look forward to in said game.
With Sky however, cosmetics become my motivation to actually play. So without it, I don't see myself playing much.
spark lance
I'm just gonna state how glaring it is that we have not had this system for even 24 hours and people have been almost nonstop debating about it as if they know everything since the moment it was revealed to us
@woeful harbor even if it hasnt been up for 24 hours, we still have to debate and discuss about it in order to come to a conclusion on whether it is beneficial to the game, the players and the people who work on it
thats why we are testing the waters before others get to jump right into it
turbid wraith
it should not come to live at all, AP should not effect how TS functions and instead the TS should just cost less candles per item
@iron nacelle exactly if theyre doing it due to grind just make it cheaper?
woeful harbor
That's not my point. My point is that people are acting as if they're aware of every single detail and that they are undeniably wrong despite the fact that we have barely had enough time to even get familiar with this system
spark lance
@woeful harbor goes to show how much feedback the community has and that sometimes TGC can have less than ideal game ideas, considering its being denied before implementing
@rain delta the game isn't pay to win rn, no one said that. if the system is implemented then it'll be hardcore pay to win. also I like wearing nice cosmetics, and what's wrong with wanting a fur cape? what if I like matching my character to the weather? what if im a kid who thinks the cape is cute and reminds me of a blanket or clothing I really like? what if it was the only cape I like in the game? it's all emotional but its still valid reasons by players are upset by not having cosmetics. to say "if theres no actual reason then they're not vital" is really dismissive of players who just genuinely like to dress up, which is fine.
tiny shadow
TGC already makes a LOT of money, though, they’re not implementing this system because they’re going broke and need more money. in my opinion I honestly just see this move as them getting greedier, their other cosmetics were already overpriced ($30 for a cape??) but this is just ridiculous
spark lance
if it's bad, it's bad, if it's good it's good, we don't need to pretend things are good just because our houses aren't burning rn. the repercussions might affect us eventually.
iron nacelle
overall cosmetics are vital to the games existance, if they make it more P2W with implementations like this, less people will play and the game with die off faster
kindred fossil
TS were slightly cheaper when they were first introduced, the prices had to be raised
mild panther
TGC already makes a LOT of money, though. in my opinion I honestly just see this move as them getting greedier, their other cosmetics were already overpriced ($30 for a cape??) but this is just ridiculous
@tiny shadow plus many people including some of my friends are buying candle packs. not gonna mention thousands of people buying AP
hollow compass
@tiny shadow what cape costs $30?
You get 115 candles with the Founder's cape.
spark lance
I think maybe changing other aspects of the game to make CR quicker would be the solution to this problem instead of trying to “fix” a delicate pricing system. Allowing CR to be faster doesn’t change the overall value of candles, but makes getting them less grindy. At least that’s just my take on it
TGC already makes a LOT of money, though. in my opinion I honestly just see this move as them getting greedier, their other cosmetics were already overpriced ($30 for a cape??) but this is just ridiculous
@tiny shadow yup
Unlike other cosmetics, at least the cape actually gave us the ability to access an exclusive area. That, and we were compensated with a large amount of candles. With the lantern and upcoming IAPs, however, I can see this happening
turbid wraith
Lets not even mention the halloween prices
tiny shadow
@hollow compass beta cape, which looks almost identical to the rest of them and all it does is get you into the Office
slim kayak
the founders cape is a way to support the game developers, that's why it's expensive. plus it gives you access to the office. it also comes with 115 candles
minor robin
Pumkin: A reminder that even though sky is F2p it isn't free to run. Can you imagine the monthly server costs to maintain a f2p game with this big of a player base? Costs also go to paying staff and hiring more.
I do agree that the cape is pricey but I personally wouldn't go so far as to accuse them of being greedy.
prime lintel
A few people have mentioned this already, but I think a good middle ground would be if having the adventure pass gave you a 25-50% discount on the branched items (rather than locking them completely). That way AP holders would have a bit of an advantage while still letting other players have a chance to get them too without spending money.
Another thing to note is the timing of this announcement. A lot of people were disappointed with the cost of the lantern ($20) as well as the prices of the Halloween items. Add on the fact that many people bought or will buy an Adventure Pass... the costs are really starting to add up within a space of two months.
spark lance
i actually want the cosmetics not the candles tbh
iron nacelle
the halloween IAP's are honestly way too high, 30 dollars for two cosmetics? 60 if you are buying last years? and only 20 candles? atleast with TGC cape it came with with over 100 candles but still, this is a lot of money
eager hatch
I can agree with some of those exclusive Halloween cosmetics or stuff like jeez im not paying for that xd but the seasonal pass price doesn't seem to bad
quick oriole
This game would absolutely not be pay-to-win if the new system is implemented. Please don’t lightly throw around that phrase as it carries an extremely negative connotation that you cannot progress or play a game without paying. As important as cosmetics can be to players, myself included, they aren’t necessary to play Sky. 
hollow compass
@tiny shadow You can't buy the beta cape. The Founder's cape costs $30 and you get 115 candles with it. I think that's quite a good deal, compared to what candle packs cost.
spark lance
@minor robin they have award winning games and receive funding for their games, they aren't poor or struggling. especially not with the steady flow of adventure passes and candle packs and whatever else IAP is available. a game company with several other games + a Sony partnership just can't be poor or rely on only one game
woeful harbor
Although I don't like the claims of greed despite not having full knowledge on circumstance & situation, I do agree that certain things to buy seem very pricey.
spark lance
I'm probably just gonna buy a pass for next season, I was looking forward to the halloween cosmetics but maybe next year
turbid wraith
Same soup same bat cape can wait
minor robin
@spark lance I didn't imply they were poor or struggling at all lol. Just saying stuff takes money to run. That's it.
lunar zealot
It takes a lot making the capes and other cosmetics, while the price isn’t for everyone and it is quite expensive imho— it won’t suit or fit everyone’s budget.
I do firmly believe that the prices are never thrown out there without a thought. They need to “earn back” the time it took to make the cosmetics— drafting, modeling, bug testing internally etc.
iron nacelle
remember, sky isnt their only money source, having IAP's cheaper could be much more beneficial than having a few people who can afford instead of loads who can afford at cheaper prices
tiny umbra
And it’s not like you can’t get into the office without the cape, the office is open on holidays and there’s always office ubers
I wasn’t mad about AP or traveling spirits cause there were alternative ways until now (possibly)
radiant drum
I mean TGC almost went bankrupt when developing Journey and that was during their work with Sony. Sky is self published, and we have no idea how they are doing financially at the moment
turbid heart
I like how the mentioned of TGC wants to compensate their workers fairly automatically means they’re in bad financial situation.
spark lance
i am looking forward to this year's cosmetics but honestly, seeing the prices, i cant argue the fact it is a bit much despite the fact that i can afford it
@quick oriole they're necessary bcs the base game is
1.) collect candles & hearts
2.) unlock constellations
3.) receive ultimate gift
^ most of the constellation items are cosmetics. the game relies heavily on players' feelings and emotions, and the point of the game is to unlock items. cosmetics are essential.
grizzled oxide
I don't see myself continuing to farm under the proposed system.
In fact looking at the last few TS's. If this system had been in place then. I wouldn't have bought anything from a TS over the past two and a half months.
tiny shadow
@minor robin yes, but like I said they’re not in dire need of money— last month alone they made around $3 million (according to some estimates). and I’m not complaining so much about the beta cape (while I personally think it’s overpriced I mean I’m not gonna get it so whatever), but more about the new ts system. I rlly hope it doesn’t go live bc it’s ridiculous
radiant drum
Something being essential to the game doesn’t mean they’re necessary to progress. Everyone can play the new seasons and get to new areas even if they don’t spend a single dollar
kindred fossil
@tiny shadow check the pins for a surprise
eager hatch
I mean I love some game play as buff moth with friends once on a while
And i can say probably if the hole game was free every cosmetics free u get a free shop to get pass cosmetics etc people would
still find something to complain
Not appreciate some cosmetics as much bc it's free accesible all the time
And would get every cosmetics and quit until they add something new
lusty light
How do you know they made 3 million last month 
spark lance
@turbid heart sometimes the community likes to pull the "tgc is a small company cut them some slack" whenever there's discussions this critical, and although they were right about needing to fund their workers properly, there's a lot to research about TGC and their history with money/funding. there's no way they can be poor
slim kayak
i mean, you can go through the whole game with default cosmetics and no wing buffs if you wanted. it's not like you wouldn't be able to participate in seasons, make friends, or finish eden without buying cosmetics. yes, they are fun and a major aspect of the game, but they are not necessary to play it.
spark lance
That is true but new players who wish to have joined during the said season and can't gain any of the items unless they're in TS, only to see this system live, that can be a bit crushing honestly
tight bloom
Without players farming candles for TS, Sky would be so empty
radiant drum
The only thing we know is that this change is being proposed because of player feedback, not their financial situation, and they are looking for more player feedback before going forward with it
mild panther
Don't forget that AP is free in beta so everyone can get it AND the stuff from TS. Except Live version.
desert mango
You still have to farm for candles for ts to my knowledge ... Just not as many
tiny shadow
yeah, from what it seems the response has been overwhelmingly negative, but who knows
median bridge
I’m confused can anyone explain what the new ts system is and what’s happening right now?
eager hatch
I would agree they can improve things like maybe add a voting on wich ts u would like to see or something but people would still complain about something else
spark lance
@radiant drum essential in a non-gameplay way, more of an emotional way. the website for TGC states their games are meant to cater to emotions and thrive off players' feelings. cosmetics and players being upset about not getting them is directly affecting their company image at this point, and would make their game lose players im exchange for some extra income
rocky plume
i wonder if more people responded to this change with their financial situation or was the people whp dont want to grind
this situation wasnt there before so peolle who have this issue isnt speaking up as much
latent oar
3m revenue in last month (actually Aug)
From some smartphone app marketing sites I believe, but those are only estimated numbers based on their sales ranking in app stores iirc
turbid wraith
Tobi i agree with everything you have said we on the same wavelength
radiant drum
Of course, I agree that cosmetics are essential. But seasonal cosmetics are in no way tied to progression or similar pay-walls that give you an actual advantage over others
Founders cape and how players might feel about it is a completely different debate
woeful harbor
After finance has been brought up I can't help but notice that people are starting to shift the conversation from being about feedback towards this new system towards trying to paint tgc in a bad light, which doesn't seem very productive
iron nacelle
the idea that yeah new players can still do stuff is rather damaging, most if not all players want cosmetics to look cool like their friends and make cool characters, putting huge price walls is not the way
quick oriole
@spark lance The base-game functions are just that, base-game functions. For all they’re worth, travelers are leftovers from game events. TGC didn’t even need to bring them back, most games wouldn’t. Pay-to-win implies that you literally cannot progress past a certain point without paying, or can collect everything by paying. There’s a big difference between that and having a pay-wall to limited content. (Content, I might add, that in no way effects your game progress)
lusty light
We have 0 clue what kind of financial situation TGC is in. Random websites saying that they made 3 million means nothing, and also has nothing to do with why we are testing this feature
fallow rover
I just wanna say I support and love the new beta update
latent oar
Of course Seraph 
radiant drum
Please refrain from reacting to other member's messages with negative reactions if you disagree with them, I understand slowmode is long but it can be seen as rude and unconstructive. Share your thoughts on your own message and explain why you disagree instead
median bridge
I’m confused can anyone explain what the new ts system is and what’s happening right now?
@median bridge 👁👄👁
valid terrace
The update is an experiment.
prime lintel
I mean, you can do a little math about numbers and prices, but it doesn't really mean anything. Take $1,000,000 and divide by $10 (price of a single adventure pass), it would take 100,000 people buying the pass to make $1M. However, we don't know how much TGC needs to spend to run the business itself and pay the developers fairly for their work, so this number is kind of meaningless by itself. For all we know they have insanely high rent and/or other expenses and the money goes quickly. Or they are making a lot of profit off of their hard work on Sky. We don't know.
pale heron
Wait so, sorry if this has already been cleared up but does the new update mean we’ll have to pay for the next adventure pass in order to get certain travelling spirit’s items?
iron nacelle
the base game doesn't keep the majority of players playing for a long time
rocky plume
wait whats the current update situation? you pay for a pass AND you gave to get same amount of candles? or is it people who have pass dont have to use candles?
desert mango
From what i read you have to obtain a pass and still use candles on the new ts system....but not as many candles ....im happy with that ..
slim kayak
they just implemented the feature, so ts pass items cost the same right now. That is subject to change at any time (and probably will, one way or another)
onyx inlet
hello beta chat
radiant drum
I'm sure it will be more clarified when a TS with those changes comes around in beta so we can test it, it's okay to be confused for now
undone chasm
Did you know: that if you deep call while dust bunny/ string worm is passing by there is a 55% chance you won’t die? I tried and it works 😂 (most of the time)
radiant drum
We are all just speculating and discussing what does it meeean and how it would affect our experience 😄
sullen comet
Where’s the traveling spirit ?
stray marlin
I AGREE 🙂
strong canopy
The base-game functions are just that, base-game functions. For all they’re worth, travelers are leftovers from game events. TGC didn’t even need to bring them back, most games wouldn’t. Pay-to-win implies that you literally cannot progress past a certain point without paying, or can collect everything by paying. There’s a big difference between that and having a pay-wall to limited content.
They are right. Tho, its true that cosmetics are a very important part of the game, almost essential to the player. You can play the game looking like a moth. But you don't. You do love your cosmetics and grind to get them.
Bringing back TS is a very very (very) generous decision they took, and we are grateful for that. The prices are high but its fair for those who payed money to get them initially.
But adding now a pay-wall to it, it really feels super off.
spark lance
@quick oriole yeah, i agree. but TGC takes pride in being a comapny that lets players express themselves and more emotional-based ways. you gotta understand that functionality =/= emotions and sure, TS and SC don't make you "progress" it still affects players emotionally and thats not a good thing when your comapny is prided on that very concept
quick oriole
Then that’s your feedback to give them
eager hatch
I mean i would love to get special cosmetics and stuff but If I pay for special cosmetics and they'll told me yeah now we are going to release it for free i would be mad and wanting my money back
iron nacelle
the base game is the base game, however, it wont keep players playing for long. This is why TS is incredibly important and should have no effect by AP as this keeps players coming back and getting cosmetics to express themselves and not just have to see friends with items they cant get
prime lintel
I think a lot of players are struggling with the fact that when the traveling spirit system was set up around Rhythm, they were introduced as a way for players to get past seasonal cosmetics for high levels of candles but no money and now it's being changed to something you have to pay for (feels like a paywall, but it technically isn't as it doesn't affect gameplay). If it had started as a purchase-required system and was getting tweaks to the purchase part of it, I think the feedback would be very different.
Yeah, I know they were started in Rhythm. I'll edit to make it clearer. I meant that the traveling spirit system started as (for lack of a better term) "free to play"
slim kayak
wren... traveling spirits were not set up from the beginning. They were introduced during rhythm
oh wait you meant something different whoops
radiant drum
This is mostly out of curiosity, but how many players here have started playing the game after TS were already a thing? Having experienced the game before then myself, the dynamics of gameplay and currency were certainly different
spark lance
@eager hatch thats valid, but for Sky, you need to remember that Android players didn't have access to sky until this year, so its entirely fair. also, veteran players dont all have money or time, so its still fair to those who get a second or third chance on a spirit. it may feel unfair but at the end of the day, people choose to spend money on their own accord and it shouldn't be a matter of "no one else is allowed to get it because i paid money for it" since that comes off selfish and childish.
iron nacelle
TS should be left how it is, it functions well and has been one of the biggest reasons for the player base being as high and returning as it is, its something for new players to enjoy and get items they see and really want instead of only some having access to them
strong canopy
imma be honest if there were no TS i would have stopped playing the second i got all my elders hair :/
i made good friends but now i have them all on discord almost
eager hatch
Most players barely know there where past seasons let alone what cosmetics they had and with all the free cosmetics u can really find ways to express yourself "wanting" or special cosmetics bc without that u cant express urself doesn't click to me but im just me
mild panther
imma be honest if there were no TS i would have stopped playing the second i got all my elders hair :/
@strong canopy same, same
quick oriole
Tbh that’s there I stand, wren. I assumed they were in large part to give f2p players a chance to get paid content, and although it isn’t technically essential, I don’t think making someone pay for part of it is fair. Honestly I kind of thought the high candles prices were about as good as it could be balance-wise
grizzled oxide
I think it's kind of dishonest to say new areas are the main thing anyone looks forward to in a new season.
The current system extends your gameplay time without a single cent. Keeps players engaged. The proposed system would have a lot of people stop farming.
Like here's an experiment you can do personally. Go look at every traveling spirit that's come and look at their shops. You can see what you wouldn't be able to buy if you were a free to play sky player.
For me personally I went through every spirit that's come while I've been playing and literally I would have bought none of the items that were available for free.
I wouldn't still be invested in this game at all.
iron nacelle
as an android user, TS is really important for me as i would not be playing as much without it, its something i and many look forward to seeing and even betting on which ts it will be
stoic epoch
Just keep send them feedback about what you think about the system, beta thing is can be changed if too many bad thing happened or make problem, the ts system is still on testing, if many player disagree the system they may think to cancel it
prime lintel
Yeah, I think the new payment requirement is what's putting people off since they started without any purchase requirement. I think it could be cool to have a discount on the number of candles you need if you have a pass for the current season though. It incentivizes pass-buying while keeping the TS system mostly as-is for people who don't have the pass.
slim kayak
but isnt that the point for this system mentioned in updates? for people to be less stressed out about farming? I know that what we're talking about now is about the effects of such a system, but it seems like tgc was a bit more focused on reducing candle running stress
crude crystal
ngl i play everyday just because i want cool stuff from ts
eager hatch
One mechanic I lost fate is meditating for hearts xd
zinc prawn
Just wanna say that life will always have situations where people are not satisfied with the outcome of events. There will be always a portion who will disagree with your opinion and thoughts, but it does not mean you should be disrespectful about it. So, whatever TGC decides to do about the new TS system, please be respectful of their decision.
gilded parrotBOT
the traveler ||hides beyond the trees||
stable sierra
Meanwhile I'm still stuck on the air trial
spark lance
@slim kayak reducing farming in a game that requires farming... knowledge 100
toxic oasis
Hey guys I don’t know if this came out already but, about the travelling spirit.. is a bit weird. After the ping message I went online to check this new feature and I notice that, yes, it required the current adventure pass to unlock second level emotes and some outfits but it also ask to pay a tribute in hearts. This is the case of the current travelling spirit. To unlock the level 2 of the emote not only required the adventure pass but also 4 hearts. I’m not sure if this make sense. I’m the moment the you want people to have the adventure pass to unlock some cosmetics and emote why let them also pay with herts? One things should esclude the other one right? Plus I think is a wrong change. Because like this people who can’t afford a season pass and either pre order it they might loos interest and just give up on the game. I don’t know.. I’m not convinced I’m this choices
tight bloom
I don't buy the CR stress reason. If they are stressed they can just buy candle packs. If they won't, what are the odds that they would buy AP for TS anyway.
prime lintel
I'm honestly surprised skybot hasn't been popping up more during this discussion like what happened during fire boi's shy phase
zinc prawn
Well wren, fire man has finally arrived so sky bot is gonna calm down from now on
gilded parrotBOT
slim kayak
i feel like they could have addressed the candle farming issue in another way though. this system feels like it brings up way more issues than they probably intended.
vernal flare
I think how they can improve the system is that ap need less candles to unlock ts? Then f2p can continue the usual farm and ap spend less hmmmm
thick lion
I figured a good trick for fire trial. Follow the farts as close as possible to avoid getting dusted. It helped ALOT during the last leg of stage 3. Also, it doesn't work ALL the time, but SOMETIMES the home trick works. It's hot or miss
calm flare
farts im sobbinfc
woeful harbor
"follow the farts"
serene fern
W-what about candle farming??? I don't see a problem with it :0 (I mean why are ppl against cr, I know it takes up a lot of time
iron nacelle
candle farming takes up a lot of time, not everyone has time
hollow compass
Lol, Alex took me and a group of other players through fire trial and I have absolutely no idea what was going on, but somehow we made it through eventually. I will be so lost in Live and probably never finish it.
warm bison
Even though I think people suggestong the AP discount idea is lovely, I think the best primary approach is to make TS follow the same system but very slightly lower proces. Unless TGC is very keen on implementing the AP then they should go with the discounts idea
since the main problem they mentioned was "grinding this much is stressful", we should focus on making grinding less per TS rather than introduce a whole new system
stoic epoch
People have no time to grind but they can always ask help from others since this is social game, we helping each other, people who have time to grind help dragging for cr, and more
somber yoke
I'll just won't be doing the trials when they come to live, not worth it, they don't give any cosmetics so yeah XD
prime lintel
the thing about candle running too is that you can get about 18 candles a day if you farm hard, which comes out to 126 candles a week. Even if you only get about 10 candles a day, that's 70 candles a week. Multiply by 2 and that gets you to 140. Might not be enough to get everything from a TS, but it's 100% doable if you put in the time (which I don't anyway, but still). We have 2 weeks to save for a TS and candle running isn't really an issue anymore with the amount of wax in game. It was a lot harder before Enchantment and Sanctuary since there was only about 15-16 candles possible per day.
woeful harbor
It's odd that an argument against this new system is that a lot of the players are children who can't get the AP because of parents not allowing them or other issues, but wouldn't you face a similar issue if the only alternative was to collect candles for 3 hours a day
midnight osprey
Before, you paid $ 5 for some things, which had better effects than now. And they really want them to pay $ 20 or $ 30 for 💩 now.
thick lion
Well the trials give you winglights. So it's good to do the trials atleast once a week xD
Even if you do the easy ones like water and earth
iron nacelle
TS should just cost a few less candles per item, this would be the much better option that the majority can agree upon
tight bloom
I'll hang around the trials entrance, especially for Fire so I won't be alone
crude crystal
tgc want to sell more pass by changing ts system i guess?
the discount idea is great but i dont think they will take it
eager hatch
I don't buy the CR stress reason. If they are stressed they can just buy candle packs. If they won't, what are the odds that they would buy AP for TS anyway.
@tight bloom I really feel like if u are stressing over a game maybe u need to take a break, I have left games in the past when I was younger bc I became obsessed with them and the need to go everyday nowadays its not that big of a deal for mostly bc at the end its a game not my real life and I don't know whats gonna be in a few years the connections with friends became more and we are actual friends irl
flat shadow
Hello, sorry this is quite random, but after TGC released the patch update info talking about the IAP Mischief cosmetics, I was wondering if, after lots of people’s feedback, they ended up lowering the price? If no one knows, it’s fine! I was just curious heheh 
vernal flare
On a side note what are your thoughts about weekly ts but with more repeats? Bcos now we have gratitude to enchantment spirits visiting
hollow compass
@woeful harbor I actually think that is what they meant with CR stress: too many young people get caught up in endless hours in the game. It's not really a healthy approach.
somber yoke
Asking people to help me cr is useless, we keep getying separated all the time, might as well do the cr alone
serene fern
there is no way I can farm enough for weekly ts
iron nacelle
thats why cr should take up less time, a game making you feel stressed playing it to get items is not good for survival of the game
eager hatch
The children's case is weird for me yeah i couldnt buy cosmetics or extra stuff in games when I didn't have the money and my parents wouldn't do it but i didn't quit for that
crude crystal
i mean sometimes cr makes me feel tired but most of the time it's fun with friends and relaxing with bgm
zinc prawn
Remember to toss them feedbacks into the #beta-feedback channel 
warm bison
If we really want to fix the problem at the core, it's to make daily CRs a bit easier to manage than 3 hours a day for what ends up as an average of 15-16 candles (let's be real, not everyone gets max)
woeful harbor
If a child cannot afford the adventure pass then it is very likely that they also won't have the ability to play the game for multiple hours a day, the idea that "Children play this game" isn't a proper argument even if you are arguing against a bad idea
flat shadow
@vernal flare with no repeats? Like until all have been back? It would be kinda cool, but only if it started from when they said? Like I am so exited for the Gratitude jump spirit as I didn’t buy the mask and regret it, so I would feel kinda bummed out if I’d have to wait for every other spirit before it could come back? That’s just my opinion tho aaaa what do you think?
latent oar
@flat shadow No ideas for now, we might have to wait when it get pushed to live @mischief items
iron nacelle
this game is aimed at a younger audience, this is a big case here not per say small children, but overall younger
silent lily
We aren't even arguing mentaroon ❤️
valid terrace
I thought the game was aimed at all ages
spark lance
I think rather than arguing against the current idea maybe we should just keep suggesting ideas that would be more appealing. 
zinc prawn
Good point mentaroon, I hardly get time to candle run at all and I hope that having the AP will benefit me to get some sort of discounts for ts , it will make everything less stressful
vernal flare
@flat shadow hmm more like each week is still random? But I'd hope they do it after clearing out one full round of ts
tight bloom
Discount for AP holder but items still obtainable for F2P 
eager hatch
Arguing in a civil manner xd@silent lily like a pillow fighting with words xd
toxic oasis
Good point mentaroon, I hardly get time to candle run at all and I hope that having the AP will benefit me to get some sort of discounts for ts , it will make everything less stressful
@zinc prawn the only problem is that for what it is now you don’t benefit at all because you’ll still have to give some heart/candles to unlock rewards from the TS. Plus the AP.. which is weird
latent oar
😂 aw I remember reading somewhere theres a 70s skykids existed in Sky
silent lily
I don't think this game has a particular audience. And tbh, it's been 7 months and I've never met a kid in the game XD
woeful harbor
Of course this also somewhat applies vice versa, the less available you are to play daily the more likely you are to be in a not-so-favorable economic status. Although that isn't always the case considering that a well-paying job could be the cause of that lack of ability to play daily
flat shadow
@latent oar ahh, thanks buddy, I’m so excited for it I can hardly wait!!
@vernal flare that would be great then! I would totally be up for that, I’ve saved so many candles waiting for the TS’s I want heheh I would love a weekly one!!
iron nacelle
one suggestion honestly is just reduced TS prices without AP effecting them. This would benefit everyone and not just those who can afford the pass which is a much happier outcome
stoic epoch
About ts system, tgc is really getting pushed out about it >.>
If
They lower the price of ts they will also got complaint for past AP holder
They higher the price of ts they also got complaint about time to grind
They require AP to unlock but lower the price also got complaint,
They really have a big balance matter here xD i wish the best for TGC.
somber yoke
Idk about most people but the sole reason i play sky is for the cosmetics, if i have to pay money for them ima quit tbh. I know they're not important to the gameplay but at the same time they're the only thing people look forward to. If i were to play the game with the same basic cosmetics every time I'd get bored and quit, what would i even look forward to anyways if i can't afford anything???
spark lance
to say children shouldn't be able to play enough is weird to me, because I'm a university student and work in a research team yet I have plenty of free time.. although im an exception. why can't kids play enough again? you know kids don't always do homework or chores, right..
also, ahem.. the pandemic everyone is at home- without motivation to even do work- kids are gonna play for hours
livid oak
The children's case is weird for me yeah i couldnt buy cosmetics or extra stuff in games when I didn't have the money and my parents wouldn't do it but i didn't quit for that
@eager hatch @midnight osprey que lo insultes dice
desert narwhal
guys I'm trynna guage how people feel about new TS system so can you vote on this lil poll pls
for PRO new system, 
for AGAINSTnew system, for INDIFFERENT
ty
eager hatch
Youngest ive met was a 15 year old dude
mild panther
Youngest ive met was a 15 year old dude
@eager hatch 10 for me : )
silent lily
Hmmm, I don't think daily playing hours have any connection with the economic status lolol
hollow compass
You shouldn't be asking people's age or any other personal information.
spark lance
10 for me
delicate locust
Youngest ive met was a 15 year old dude
@eager hatch 8-9 for me
spark lance
8 for me
rain delta
@spark lance cosmetics ARE NOT essential, you like looking nice that’s great! We all do, but it’s not required to play the game.
I’m not sure how to stress that point. All the points you made to my original argument are just wanting to look nice. But none of them give me a conclusive argument as to why they can’t be AP locked.
If you like a nice pair of pants irl, are you going to go to the store and complain that it’s too expensive? And then proceed to tell the company that pants are necessary and what if I like looking nice, therefore they should be cheaper? The store owner will respond with, if you can afford it, go and purchase it, if you can’t, then don’t. There’s cheaper alternatives.
The same logic in my opinion in my opinion applies here. Again, I’m just trying to play devil’s advocate here. But most of the arguments that have been brought against this, are just complaints because they don’t like that things won’t be free anymore. (Free here just means that it doesn’t take irl currencies and does not undermine the effort taken to gather these candles — trust me I do crs too, I like the current system as well and I’m just trying to play devil’s advocate here)
somber yoke
7, my brother
zinc prawn
"Arguing" doesn't always mean something negative, we're just discussing our points which is also classifies as an argument.
eager hatch
tiny umbra
I play frequently with a 12 year old
somber yoke
Endenover, cosmetics ARE essential, maybe in some other game they're not, but i personally think this whole game is based on getting much cosmetics, grinding daily for candles or buying candle packs should be enough, i don't see why they need to unlock cosmetics with an AP
tight bloom
Getting cosmetic is the thing I look forward to in Sky. Sorry to say but, the gameplay itself is lacking after you finnish eden. So, cosmetics is the reason I keep playing.
spark lance
comparing real life and a game, im not sure.. my opinion on the whole ts thing i dont known but either way
@rain delta cosmetics are essential when the game revolves around grinding and obtaining cosmetics. no i won't complain to the company but im definitely gonna complain to a friend bcs guess what, people are human and have emotions, theyre gonna get upset when they dislike something. TGC prides themselves in being a unique company that supports players emotionally and expressively, so cosmetics are essential. especially since the ultimwte gifts are cosmetics and require hours of play time to achieve.
idk how to tell everyone that cosmetics are essential when the game literally requires you to grind and unlock them at base game functionality. just because you dont think it is or they don't make you progress in anyway doesn't make them any less essential
wanting to look nice is valid and shouldn't be less of a reason, either
prime lintel
I have briefly mentioned why I don't think they should be AP locked; I dislike the idea that they are making something that was free into something that requires a purchase. If they had started with making it require a purchase, I would feel differently.
Going with your store analogy, the TS system in live now is like being able to buy what you want in a store as long as you can afford it. The new proposed system is like going into that same store one day and now seeing a section locked behind a door and someone saying "you can't come in here without this specific membership card" even though you could have gotten in before without such requirement. That's what a lot of people are having trouble with, if I'm reading the channel(s) correctly.
rain delta
@somber yoke i’ll reiterate one point again, tell me how not having the dismiss stance’s fur cape affects your gameplay? Can you not burn candles in the game? Can you not go through barriers?oh what about spirits, is it that without the cape, you can’t relive spirits.
All of those above are segments vital to the game play. The cosmetics are not essentially for gameplay.
toxic oasis
I don’t know guys.. I don’t understand why I should get mad with other player only because they can benefits of the same cosmetics I’ve got from the same spirit buying the AP with normal and less candles. Honestly no. I bought an adventure pass for season of Rhythm, and we know that the cost is 20£ ish. And then one of them came as a travelling spirit and other player get the chance to collect those cosmetics using their candles. Honestly I’m happy for them and no I would not get mad if the prices get down and even if the ultimates reward would come back. I mean I got the pendant for that season, so? I mean I got 6 spirits cosmetics plus final rewards basically for a simple amount of money, while other have to farm and farm and farm to get the same things. It just makes no sense when people say that they would get mad if other got the same stuff after months simply by using normal candles. That’s it m. Sorry for this but I have to say it
spark lance
idk if anyone did come up with this idea but instead of some of the upcoming Traveling Spirit’s items are tied to owning the current Adventure Pass (Season of Prophecy) in order to access and unlock all of its items, how about we make a candles discount for pass-holder? and make the prices higher for non-pass-holder? so that everyone can get access to old seasonal cosmetics?
woeful harbor
Don't forget that your opinions are not the absolute and full view of every player in the game. Your personal value towards cosmetics does not mean that they hold an incredible amount of significance to every player in Sky. There are many players I know who have played Sky for the purpose of the experience, and don't bother with cosmetics. Just because you are entitled to your own opinion does not mean other people are not entitled to theirs.
real mica
What would be a good way to make the candle farm less "difficult" ?
What would be a good way to make people avoid spending money to buy items from traveling spirits?
I think if we can answer these questions, we can come up with a solution
ionic bluff
I really hope tgc looks into the discount idea, it’s very smart and won’t deter others without pass from ts, meanwhile pass holders have an extra reason to have that pass.
vivid saddle
Whole paragraphs are being typed right now 
you guys type fast
spark lance
Yeah I can barely keep up with the conversation
tiny umbra
Yeah the discount idea seems to be the best right now
spark lance
I state my opinion and discuss it but its like we cant discuss our opinions without someone being rude, dismissive, or say "well im fine and we should all just accept everything TGC does bcs this stresses me out"
i hope people are submitting it on #beta-feedback
delicate locust
I'm just lurking the chaos this whole day lol
swift edge
idk if anyone did come up with this idea but instead of
some of the upcoming Traveling Spirit’s items are tied to owning the current Adventure Pass (Season of Prophecy) in order to access and unlock all of its items, how about we make a candles discount for pass-holder? and make the prices higher for non-pass-holder? so that everyone can get access to old seasonal cosmetics?
@spark lance
I had the same idea earlier i also sent this idea in #beta-feedback since it seems like a nice way to end the issue about being obligated to buy the pass. I suggest u to also share the idea in #beta-feedback
somber yoke
@rain delta i answered that already, if I don't get cosmetics, there's no need for me to continue playing, the game gets boring after you get all wingbuffs and unlock all elders' cosmetics. I don't pay for AP I'm broke, so i wait for the spirits to come back as ts to get the cosmetics with the candles i grinde daily for, so to lock those, I'll just stop playing 🤷♂️
rain delta
@pulsar karma the grinding aspect has become the consequence of introducing the traveling spirits,however, it isn’t the sole and primary function of the game.
I feel that’s an important distinct to make. It’s because of the existing system, that there’s a grind, there was never one before they were introduced.
As for cosmetics during season, of course, cause you’re paying for the cosmetics with the AP. You brought that point up again yourself, people pay for the adventure pass for cosmetics, to upgrade their current looks. Choosing to grind for them has been their choice. It is again, not vital for gameplay.
None of the trials are locked behind paywalls - only the cosmetics are. Again, cosmetics are not vital for gameplay.
@somber yoke its the same for me, but that’s ultimately our choice. Choice is inextricably linked with time and it’s your choice where you want to put that time.
But that still doesn’t offer any reason as to why the cosmetics are vital for gameplay. No aspect of the game I.e the spirit reliving, making friends, using emotes, going through barriers are affected by not having certain cosmetics
latent oar
as someone who enjoys moth costume I'd just hype for Prophecy being released in live 
hollow compass
It's funny. Once upon a time there was this game called Sky and it was about friendship and exploring together. I remember someone mentioning altruism also.
But now it's a new game and it's all about cosmetics. Where did it all go wrong? But seriously, I don't remember the game being so focused on THINGS when I started it. I don't quite recognise some of these arguments, although I do respect that this is how you feel. Maybe TGC failed in their intended purpose of the game? I don't know.
eager hatch
I feel people are generalising to much of cosmetics are or not essential bases on themselves
Yeah for me it's a good extra kiionda essential but I have no problem with the Current systems on buying stuff
I have friends that play to fly around
Some love to take photos from weird angles or places
Some are oobs explorers
One friend come just to talk with people
Many use the same cosmetics since day o or have like 3 outfits while some like me use every last item we got
Everyone plays in their way and we are connected by our relationships and have personal essential aspects for them
simple bobcat
I don't think the grinding aspect only comes from ts, there comes grinding for regular spirits too
ionic bluff
@rain delta but cosmetics ARE still a major part of the game. If I’m wrong, wasn’t the original point of TS supposed to give players who couldn’t afford a pass the chance to get items they wanted that were pass locked?
woeful harbor
What exactly makes your loss of interest in a game a bad thing? Plenty of story-based games are formatted in a way where they don't have much replayability unless you actively make the decision to fully restart the game. Since when was it bad for a player to reach a point where they decide that there's nothing left for them to do in the game and move on?
warm bison
I think a point we haven't mentioned as often when discussing is that if the discount idea is implemented, technically the AP holder will be getting 2 seasons value of spirits on a discounted value which might affect the price of the AP
(Seasons could average to 10 weeks so 5 TS per season + the original season's spirits). This might result in a raise of the AP price if users start complaining "AP has more content now but with the same price! It's not fair for us usesers who paid the same price but less content".
The cycle never ends.
silent lily
@somber yoke lol, tgc isn' saying that you can't wear any Cosmetics from now on, just some of them won't be available for non pass players. There are still many more to choose from and many more to come.
I'm seeing many people saying I will quit if I don't get Cosmetics, I mean there are still a lot of free cosmetics to choose from
spark lance
@rain delta grinding has always been in the game considering you need to collect candles to unlock constellations or friends. traveling spirits didnt introduce it, idk why you think that.
cosmetics are essential bcs the game is literally based on them, and i get you think otherwise bcs theres no mechanic where hair will make you fly faster. but humans are emotional and sometimes looking nice matters more than getting a boost or something in game. not everything has to have a solid purpose or function.
ive been told by ogs how the whole cosmetic thing is a bit sad, but at this point its a fact that cosmetics are probably the only thing that keeps many players
mild panther
You all are arguing that cosmetics are not important etc, but i wonder how many of you would actually play the game when you've finished all constellations if traveling spirits weren't here? Besides new season
prime lintel
I was getting a grind-y feeling even before the travelers began (I started in Lightseekers), but it was definitely amplified when the travelers were introduced. I enjoy playing with friends in Sky, exploring, and doing some of the (admittedly very few) other activities that the game offers, but really honestly, the grind has been a major part of the game for a long time.
TGC did a great job with Prophecy introducing new ways to play, but even then it hasn't really varied the game very much
turbid heart
@atipleb FOMO is a hard to shake off emotion
hollow compass
@woeful harbor this so much! It's ok to grow bored of a game. It happens, even with the best of them. There will be a new one eventually.
iron nacelle
this game would not be running as high as it is without cosmetics, and thats a fact
somber yoke
@silent lily what's the point if they're locked behind an ap?? I won't be getting them anyways
warm bison
I think a point we haven't mentioned as often when discussing is that if the discount idea is implemented, technically the AP holder will be getting 2 seasons value of spirits on a discounted value which might affect the price of the AP
(Seasons could average to 10 weeks so 5 TS per season + the original season's spirits). This might result in a raise of the AP price if users start complaining "AP has more content now but with the same price! It's not fair for us usesers who paid the same price but less content".
The cycle never ends.
I'd like to add that this is why I think staying as close as possible to the original system is the better option
ionic bluff
I feel like, if ts are really locked behind an AP then I’m not gonna have much of a reason to play. That’s my opinion. If seasons are gonna be the only reason I’m still playing then peace out
spark lance
maybe what theyre trying is to increase the income of players and allow the possibility of ogs to move on from the game
silent lily
@somber yoke not everything is locked, that's what I'm tryna say, many will still be free and you can buy those..
buoyant marsh
Beta chat ~spicy~ rn 🌶
tight bloom
I mean if people lose interest of the game. Won't the game just die? That's probably why they introduce cosmetics, to make sure ppl don't just leave after 1 month. What game company would just be fine to lose their playerbase?
tacit ember
I like this discussion. Some people are being rude but most people are being so nice and coming up with good alternatives. 🤗!
iron nacelle
older players crying about newer players wanting to gain stuff is very damaging for the future as those players wont stay around forever so its vital to keep new people always coming in
latent oar
@buoyant marsh you mean from 15 hours ago
rain delta
@spark lance for argument’s sake let’s lay down the core foundations of what you think is considered part of gameplay
For me the gameplay in this game consists of;
The additions on this are:
If you look at the first list, none of those require the dismiss spirit;s fur cape, or the rhythm pants to play! It’s not like there’s a barrier barring you from doing those things. For people who pay, the cosmetics are skins.
So again, cosmetics are not vital to the core gameplay
prime lintel
Can we all just take a moment to appreciate the fact that TGC is open to suggestion and feedback and is actively looking for comments about the new update(s) so they can work to improve the features as needed?
swift edge
Honestly the only reason i still play Sky is cause of my friends but guess what i do with my friends? RUN FOR CANDLES SO WE CAN GET COSMETICS 
Sky is about friendship but once u beat the game, get everything in the constellations and there isn't any season active, there isn't much to do so we do CR to get TS cosmetics
ionic bluff
@silent lily but the items we want mostly are gonna be AP, that’s the point of TS. They were supposed to give players who missed out on cosmetics or an AP to have those items again.
somber yoke
@silent lily you know darn well the cosmetics everyone wants are the ones that are gona be locked behind an ap, and even if i could get 1 cosmetic out of 3 or 4, i don't want it. Again, this is my opinion idk why you're trying to convince me to be content with this new thing they're tryna implement, i still hate it
woeful harbor
Games like Undertale and Hyper Light Drifter are very story-based, and after you finish the game there isn't much left for you to do unless you decide to play through the exact same story again. Although that never made these games any less good. Just because a game cannot be infinitely captivating does not immediately mean the game holds any less significance than it originally did. Sky might be more social than story-based, but that doesn't exempt it from this standard. Gradually losing interest and moving on from a game is not a bad thing.
spark lance
The candle farm is the essence of Sky. Anyone who wants to buy cosmetics needs to sweat, to play every day. That's Sky! Changing that would make everything easier for everyone.
real mica
Something that motivates the player to play the game, instead just traveling spirits that we don't even know which ones will come, would be cool
spark lance
when i first saw sky, what cautivated me the most was the cool cosmetics because i could show them off to friends and use them to create lil stories in my head
when i also saw that cosmetics could be achieved without paying, i was delighted :D
silent lily
Guys, TS are not locked behind ap, it's not like you need ap Just to get the emote and open the tree, half of the things are still free and your still getting the emote
Please don't say that ts are locked when they aren't fully.
@ionic bluff that wasn't the initial point of ts, it's point wasn't to bring back ap items for free, its point was to bring back old items that the Players missed Maybe cause they didn't play that season or didn't farm enough seasonal candlees
spark lance
I fee like you can’t really compare sky to games like undertake when the whole basis of sky is continuing to play for more content
desert narwhal
DONT FORGET TO PUT FEEDBACK IN #beta-feedback this is where the devs look at our responses...and take them in consideration for future builds whether you like the new TS system, or not, your feedback is important!
gilded parrotBOT
the traveler ||wanders through misty groves to find a valley where the river lies||
flat shadow
guys I'm trynna guage how people feel about new TS system so can you vote on this lil poll pls
ty
@desert narwhal wait! Is the new TS feature actually in the game??
iron nacelle
core gameplay=\= people continuing to play and enjoy, mainly applies to games like this with set stories, not sandboxes ect
tacit ember
Everyone saying cosmetics are not core gameplay but collecting candles is, what are you collecting candles for then?
spark lance
@rain delta sir you're way too hung up on that specific cosmetic, it sounds like your projecting at this point. I've already given you my opinion, why do you keep giving me "arguments" when I'm legit not changing what I say. I said what I said, you said what you said.
cosmetics are essential because its an emotional feature, and that doesn't make them any less valid. in order to even get some of those gamplays you need to candle grind. some of the emotes need cosmetics to be unlocked in the tree first. there's always cosmetics involved.
imagine the TS sneak peak after that. i can almost feel the energy
woeful harbor
Ok hold on just let me get all of the past spirits I missed through ts and THEN you can do whatever you want with the feature tgc
ionic bluff
@silent lily read the wiki. It says that even if you didn’t have the adventure pass, ts existed to let you not only get missed items but collect items if you didn’t have the AP. this is what I always remember ts existing for.
latent oar
@woeful harbor Your words reminded me how to enjoy games as hobbies. 
iron nacelle
cosmetics are essential and a focal point to the game, people want them to show off how they cool they are along with friends and without them. this game would not be going for aslong as it has seeing as cosmetics have been in the game from the start
rain delta
@spark lance fair enough :) I’ll just end my case here
willow garnet
even if ppl complain and say they will leave the game if the new ts system gets approved to live, tgc knows players probably won’t. i mean your collection of cosmetics alone is a good enough reason for you to keep the game
silent lily
I think neither connecting Candles nor COSMETICS is the core gameplay.
The core gameplay is the Friends and the fun you have with them, its not necessary the Candle farming is the only way to enjoy with friends, you can play or listen to music , sit down and chat or just roam around here and there , maybe go to oobs or eden? Who said you can only enjoy the game with Candle farmin and Cosmetics?
desert narwhal
can we all agree:
cosmetics essential to game but not to gameplay like actually being able to play the game.
somber yoke
I don't understand why people who can afford ap can't get over the fact that there are broke people out there, it's almost offensive when i say I'm bummed i can't get any more cosmetics now because I'm broke for an ap bruh 😂😂😂 also it's not my fault the game was released to ios first, even if i wanted to pay for ap for previous seasons, the game wasn't available on my platform 🤷♂️
spark lance
@silent lily you cant make friends if you dont have candles to unlock friendship tho
tacit ember
I think neither connecting Candles nor COSMETICS is the core gameplay.
The core gameplay is the Friends and the fun you have with them, its not necessary the Candle farming is the only way to enjoy with friends, you can play or listen to music , sit down and chat or just roam around here and there , maybe go to oobs or eden? Who said you can only enjoy the game with Candle farmin and Cosmetics?
@silent lily The irony that lone Wolf is talking about friends. 😂! But yes! The friends are one of the best bits of Sky.
iron nacelle
cosmetics does not equal gameplay however the majority of players are around for the cosmetics as the gameplay gets repetitive fast.
prime lintel
Yeah, the fact that Android players will kind of be hit the hardest with this new system is what's also bothering me. I'm an iOS player and it feels awkward that Android players weren't able to play Gratitude-Rhythm simply because it was not available to them, not because they just didn't pick up the game earlier. Introducing an AP requirement feels a bit like "punishment" (for lack of a better term, sorry if the intent isn't coming out well) for Android players
silent lily
Alright am upcoming poll.
You can only choose one option
Would you rather have Friends in sky without Cosmetics or just Cosmetics without friends?
i just need good cosmetics , who are Friends?
are you serious! I will quit if i don't have my friends, i can easily remove Cosmetics from the game just so they stay.
valid terrace
Why would I take sides?
past abyss
I don't have friends anymore. They all don't play as much lol
spark lance
i want cosmetics and friends
tight bloom
People play differently. I personally don't care about friends
Just love zooming through realms for candles
somber yoke
The core gameplay is friends, me with 0 friends, sure buddy 😞✌, nah, nobody is ever online the same time i am, if i want to talk to friends I'll go to my ig, amd after months roaming here and there, it gets repetitive and you lose interest, time to move to another game
spark lance
@silent lily I can always vc my friends or chat somewhere else too, and friends are also essential
ionic bluff
If I HAVE to choose I’d choose cosmetics. I’d miss friends but I like collecting things
mortal forge
Sorry, whats AP mean?
desert narwhal
I don't think anyone is saying pick sides...just wanna see the general consensus...I understand where everyone is coming from
iron nacelle
i get friends and we all like getting cosmetics, if not we go play other games which provide more gameplay
spark lance
AP is an acronym for adventure pass
hybrid talon
Adventure pass> Sorry, whats AP mean?
@mortal forge adventure pass
ivory warren
@mortal forge the adventure pass, it gives you access to special cosmetics and other things during the current season
surreal night
I'd choose cosmetics over @ionic bluff any day.
silent lily
It was supposed to be just a poll lol, since people are saying they'll quit if they don't get Cosmetics.
Exactly@desert narwhal , thank you
grizzled oxide
I love flying in sky. In fact I’mm rather good at it. I can do two things with that. Show off to my friends. And collect candles for cosmetics.
Often I do both at once.
Somehow I don’t think my friends will put up with my show boating if they don’t want candle wax for the TSes. Lol
fallow rover
the pass is really affordable imo.
flat shadow
@desert narwhal wait! Is the new TS feature actually in the game??
@flat shadow I’m still a little confused, sorry if this is a bit annoying aaaa
spark lance
i love ubering but ive been too busy to do so
ionic bluff
@surreal night BAAAAAAZZ
desert narwhal
@flat shadow check #beta-announcements for more information :)
somber yoke
Android players weren't able to play Gratitude-Rhythm simply because it was not available to them, not because they just didn't pick up the game earlier. Introducing an AP requirement feels a bit like "punishment"
@prime lintel android players will now have to pay for ap and not even get ultimate gifts 😞✌
past abyss
the pass is really affordable imo.
@fallow rover
In other countries it might not be. It could be hundreds more in other currencies.
lusty light
No the new ts system is not in the game it is not planned to go into the game
It’s just for our opinions
surreal night
Seraph is the real mvp
zinc prawn
To be honest:
Every feature in the game whether it's cosmetics, friends, or just exploring/candle running
They all create the game TOGETHER, not including any one of these essential features kind of breaks the bond between the three
swift edge
I have 14 friends who i play with almost daily.... I met almost all of them ubering cause they needed candles for ts ( ˙▿˙ )
silent lily
Tbh, I'd give up any Cosmetic for my friends, they're literally the best
spark lance
ahaha i have around 60 or more friends, i mightve gone too far..
grizzled oxide
The pass looks super expensive to me. What’s affordable will be relative to everything. The Pass is priced very fairly. But it is not universally affordable.
prime lintel
I played solo for 3 months (started in October 2019) before joining the Discord and it was super lonely. I actually joined the Discord because I was about to leave the game because I was getting tired of the grind and lack of meaningful interactions with other players.
Here's the thing. The traveling spirits have already been introduced to the game. Are there flaws in the way it has been implemented? Maybe. Could it be improved? Definitely. In my personal opinion, making a major change to the system by requiring a pass for pretty much literally half the items that were previously available is not a good move. If it had started with requiring the current pass, I don't think there would be as much of a debate. It's the fact that they went from free to AP requirement that's the issue.
rain delta
@prime lintel agreed 100% to that ^
swift edge
ahaha i have around 60 or more friends, i mightve gone too far..
@spark lance
I have more than 120 and it is very chaotic
lusty light
I also had a period of a few months where i stopped playing bc my friends disappeared... like cosmetics are cool and all and I like to dress up but what’s the point in playing a game just bc I want wear a few things? That’s not really playing the game at all imo
iron nacelle
TS should just be kept as it is, maybe prices lowered slightly so everyone can enjoy especially android players who had no chance to even gain access to the items
somber yoke
I don't understand who should i choose between having friends or cosmetics?? I don't have to sacrifice any of them to enjoy the game, if i had to give one up why bother play in the first place
real mica
@prime lintel yeah, it contradicts the purpose of traveling spirits
silent lily
Exactly, sera, thank you .🥺
dusty glen
I think some sort of daily challenges or levels (that are more difficult than the new pass’s challenges) that allow you to collect candle light, and the better you do the more you get could be cool? That way you can avoid grinding as much by simply getting good at the game. It would also add more incentive to having some sort of skill at all. The traveling spirits would also still keep their value this way and you wouldn’t have to change the price, and it would be more friendly to players who can’t commit as much time to candle grinding
willow garnet
not everyone is a social butterfly in sky tho. there are players who prefer to play solo, or those who simply use sky as an escape from social interactions. for them, cosmetics and new seasons are a huge part
flat shadow
@flat shadow check #beta-announcements for more information :)
@desert narwhal thanks buddy! Does this mean that when a TS comes, new players will have a chance to buy the season? Or will the season items just be locked forever if you didn’t buy the season at the time? Also, in the post it said between season for TS’s you’ll have to preorder the next pass? I don’t really understand,, thank you so much for being so kind and patient tho!
Edit: I mean like, when a TS comes will you have to buy the pass the TS is from, or the current one?
mild panther
not everyone is a social butterfly in sky tho. there are players who prefer to play solo, or those who simply use sky as an escape from social interactions. for them, cosmetics and new seasons are a huge part
@willow garnet +1 ♥
lusty light
I mean sky at it’s core is always going to be a social game
rain delta
I thought the purpose of bring back the traveling spirits was that past seasonal items for folks who missed out would be available — I have a feeling we went from that to — all past seasonal items will be free after a certain point
lusty light
Not everyone is social but it’s a social game
hollow compass
While playing solo is fine, the game is designed around social aspects.
oh, er...what sera said.
lusty light
They designed it for you to make deep connections with other players, like my fellow mods 
prime lintel
I personally don't have an issue with how high the prices are for travelers. It's relatively easy to gather enough candles for a traveler and/or just skip out on it for the time being. I think the high price is a good balance for the previous requirement of an AP for some of the items. Bonus points if the current AP gives a discount on the price with an improved TS system.
iron nacelle
friends and cosmetics are joint, you get friends and getting cosmetics is nice to show yourself amongst them along with seeing what type of outfits they also make,
zenith root
take away one and the others start to fall
tight bloom
But it's people's choice how they want to play. why is it so wrong to play for the cute cosmetics?
lusty light
But the question is, if you are only playing for the cosmetics, do you actually enjoy playing the game
There are many games that are based on dressing up
mild panther
There are many ways to enjoy the game playing by yourself.
silent lily
The devs say it all the time, the first line that comes out of their mouth when asked what is sky is "it's a social game where you make friends and explore the kingdom"
It's not wrong to Play for Cosmetics, it's just that that isn't the point of the game or how it's supposed to be played
somber yoke
By social do you mean teleporting to that randome friend when they're online to do a high five for the daily task then go back to tour solo cr?? Because that's what i do lol, i won't chit chat with people in sky, i go there to get ma candles 🤣
spark lance
i mean, no matter the ending decision tgc makes, there will be someone who will disagree
but whats important for them is so the amount of people who agree is bigger
dusty glen
I always saw the passes as a way to get the cosmetics faster and easier than you would without paying. It would make more sense I think if the pass gave you a discount on the traveling spirit instead of being the key to unlocking half of the items
lusty light
Many people are saying they only play bc they have to grind to get the cosmetics, but no one actually likes the grind, so are you actually enjoying the game or are you playing it out of a sense of obligation?
hollow compass
It's not wrong to play for the cosmetics. But the game wasn't designed around that. It has always been about the social aspect and helping each other. Tbh, maybe we should be focusing more on giving feedback and suggestions on improving that, rather than arguing about differently shaped pixels.
real mica
Sky is not a dress up game
nor can it just be a game of chatting with your friends
buoyant marsh
🍿 👀
tight bloom
Yes. I very much enjoy playing by myself just for the cosmetics. As for other games, I've maybe already played it too. I love dressing up avatars in cute cosmetics
silent lily
You're missing out @somber yoke , try to friend the person who helped you in burning the plant at gw, try to friend the person who deep called and saved you from loosing light in forest, try to friend the person who helped you at any point , spend time with them, talk and explore. That's the real point of SKY.
somber yoke
I enjoy the grinde and seeing my candle count goes down when ts come with goodies, i don't enjoy starting to pay money for something that was free
lusty light
I’m not very social myself, people scare me lol, but the few friends I’ve met in sky I cherish very much
flat shadow
Does anyone know what AP you have to buy for the TS’s? Is it the current one or do you buy the season the TS is from and have access to all items on all the TS’s from the past season?
mild panther
Just because i'm not a social butterfly and i play the game that's based on socializing doesn't mean that i feel like i should socialize. Of course, there are times where i join my friends and stuff, but i enjoy the peaceful runs and moments by myself
And i do like running by myself and getting cosmetics. Just because
rain delta
It’s not wrong to play for the cosmetics. But the game wasn’t designed around that. It has always been about the social aspect and helping each other. Tbh, maybe we should be focusing more on giving feedback and suggestions on improving that, rather than arguing about differently shaped pixels.
@hollow compass
And this has been my reason for persistently bringing up the point on cosmetics not being vital.
The traveling spirits sort of made it that way, but that wasn’t an intended consequence. That said, I love the current TS system, but I also have no argument against why it shouldn’t be taken away ;-;
spark lance
i grind so that i don't get left out , if i would grind and still get left out, I'm out.
dusty glen
Expressing yourself TO your friends is certainly an important part of Sky, which is why both “dressing up” and interacting with other players is important
lusty light
What are you getting left out of though
ionic bluff
@silent lily i feel like the problem with that is, a majority of those people you’ll friend you’ll never talk to again. It also entirely depends on how social someone is
lusty light
Are you only getting the cosmetics bc others are getting them? Do you actually like the cosmetics?
prime lintel
I think one of the issues people are having with reconciling TGC's vision for the game as a social experience with friends is that the game itself encourages, if not straight up requires, playing for cosmetics as a major part of the game. There's really only so much you can do in Sky, even with friends. That's why I think Prophecy is a great improvement on the base game as it introduces a completely new way to play both solo and with friends. I would love to see more things like this in the game rather than the kind of grind-y feel that the game is currently appearing to promote. I have a lot of friends that I love playing with, I take frequent breaks as needed/wanted, and I love collecting cosmetics. I hope TGC will find just the right balance for everyone involved!
lusty light
Are people not going to be your friend because you don’t have a certain cosmetic
zinc prawn
Seraph bringing out the real tea
hollow compass
Sera is on fire tonight (or today, whichever time zone you're in)! So many good questions!
latent oar
@flat shadow Sorry Forest but I think it's better to read #beta-announcements + pinned post here first.
willow garnet
it’s their personal choice how they want to play the game, you can’t tell them how they should play. maybe you value friendships in sky and that’s great, but for many ppl they view the game as an escape from social interactions bc they’re drained from their everyday life, and that’s also fine. don’t know why you’re telling them how they should enjoy the game
lusty light
Like everyone here is putting our their feelings on cosmetics and such but have you really thought about why you feel that way?
silent lily
And hey, the name is sky: CHILDREN of the light not sky:CHILD of the light
Even if you play solo, you simply can't argue against the fact that the game is a social game and that's what it was intended to be.
Also, wow sera, I couldn't frame any of those, but I think that way too, thanks for saying it :) ❤️
somber yoke
@silent lily nah you don't get it, i do friend them, i got lots of "friends" in my constellation, trafing hearts and all, but we don't go to sky to sit on a tabel and talk, we're not "friends friends", just sku friends, and i like it that way, maybe you like having online friends, that's not my cup of tea, besides most are way younger than me and it's just awkward, there's nothing to talk about
rain delta
@lusty light exactly thank youuu
spark lance
most social people i know arent interested in sky anymore lmao
lusty light
I’m sorry that people have turned you away for being a new player tassor, but for every player like that there are many more players that would be glad to help you and be your friend
ionic bluff
I like going after cosmetics bc I like to create characters! It’s super fun, I also have a quest to make the most ridiculous looking skykid imaginable, so cosmetics are a big part of the game to me :)))
dusty glen
What Wren said, new ways to play with friends and new reasons to play would be really great. Challenges, levels, things like that
lusty light
Personally I love seeing moths in the game, I hope they enjoy the game as I have for the past 2 years, whenever I see a moth I scream BABY to my friends lol
flat shadow
@flat shadow Sorry Forest but I think it's better to read #beta-announcements + pinned post here first.
@latent oar ahh, I hadn’t read the pinned, thank you!Do you know what the beta update post means tho? I don’t know why I’m just struggling to understand what it means?
silent lily
Idk Misha, is that just you, those kind of things never happened to me, I at least put a table and chat with someone and see how they are before taking any further steps and 99% of the times the other person is really friendly and great
random gull
Me when I see a moth: MOFF let's go of whatever friend I'm holding to chase and befriend them
desert narwhal
@flat shadow essentially, with this system, when a TS comes, if that TS has item(s) that are from the adventure pass from that season (the season that the TS is from), you will not be about to unlock that item(s) unless you buy the adventure pass for the current or upcoming season. for example, if a rhythm spirit had a cape and you needed the adventure pass inorder to get it...with the new TS system, if that same spirit visited...you would need to buy the adventure pass for the current or upcoming season in order to get the cape...
Sorry that took forever...I got distracted
latent oar
Sorta off-topic but the more I read from here the more I feel it's about time to take a break from Sky. I'm on the side feeling stressed on grinding since it takes most of my free time. Things are going too serious as a causal indie game now. 😂
prime lintel
I like collecting cosmetics because I find them super cute and enjoy customizing my character. I like playing with friends. We explore together, chat together, and occasionally dress up like each other. It's a lot of fun to both collect cosmetics and spend time with friends. I was so happy when TGC introduced the traveling spirit system because I had a chance to get the Lightseekers cosmetics that I missed out on when I first joined (which was most of them because I was baby moth who had no clue what was going on).
Are they "essential" for gameplay? Not really, no. Do I still enjoy having them? Absolutely, 100%
lusty light
Also it’s ok if you don’t find yourself enjoying the game anymore! It’s okay to stop playing
zinc prawn
I love moths more than anything, something about them makes me want to protect them and show them all of sky
zenith root
i actually enjoy the grind a lot because it's very relaxing to just fly around in a set pattern, and give myself something reliable to do on the daily. in the absolute mess that is reality right now it's nice to have something consistent to do. i'm also a massive optimizer/completionist, that's just how i tend to play
the cosmetics let me express myself beyond chat, and seem as more of myself rather than just my character. it helps me have more of a personality than just the character on the screen and my words in chat.
spark lance
i want all cosmetics so i can represent myself accurately 24/7 hahah
somber yoke
Lonewolf, once again, you're trying to project your experience on me, we're not the same, for you it's about friends and friendships and talking with strangers and becoming friends, for me I want the cosmetics to stay free, period
rain delta
I appreciate the discussion in this channel though XD it’s about the same intensity as discussing what new proposition to vote yes or no on 😂😂
dusty glen
Honestly I found it faster to make new friends when I was a new player, people tend to want to help out and teach the new babies
lusty light
If it ends up being just a break, great! If you stop playing altogether, I just hope you remember and cherish the memories you had playing the game
tight bloom
There are many great, nice people on Sky. But I just don't feel like talking. The ingame keyboard is awkard and conversation is so long while going nowhere at the same time.
flat shadow
@flat shadow essentially, with this system, when a TS comes, if that TS has item(s) that are from the adventure password from that season (the season that the TS is from), you will not be about to unlock that item(s) unless you buy the adventure pass for the current or upcoming season. for example, if a rhythm spirit had a cape and you needed the adventure pass inorder to get it...with the new TS system, if that same spirit visited...you would need to buy the adventure pass for the current or upcoming season in order to get the cape...
Sorry that took forever...I got distracted
@desert narwhal ahhh thank you so much buddy!! So, we don’t buy the past season to have access, but the current one? You explain so well, thank you so much!
silent lily
Well personally I will chose friends over cosmetics IF I HAD TO.
I mean I love wearing Kakashi hair and battle braid but not cause I want to flex upon new moths, but cause I like them,.and they express me,
high girder
My biggest issue with the ts is that they're random, I dont want a repeat ts from a season before all of its spirits even got a chance to be a ts
strong heath
So me and my sister talked about the new TS system, and we come down to a conclusion that it will be better for people who buy a pass to get a discount while the people who didnt buy the pass to pay the original candle price
lusty light
@tight bloom i don’t like talking much either! When I first met joshur in game we were just in silence, messing around for a few months it was great
vernal flare
Tbh 100% of the time if someone proposes me a candle im gonna take it. Moth or no moth
prime lintel
My biggest issue with the ts is that they're random, I dont want a repeat ts from a season before all of its spirits even got a chance to be a ts
wym, you don't want sassy stance to come back a third time???
desert narwhal
@flat shadow I'm going to message you personally so we don't keep interrupting the conversation 😅
orchid nexus
I also don't like when @lusty light talks in Sky
real mica
@spark lance same, I'm happy that in the new season there is hair that is the same as mine in real life, but sadly it is AP only
lusty light
@orchid nexus you’re lucky I can’t use my get you emoji here
zenith root
the reason i made my first and closest sky friend was BECAUSE we sat down on a bench in golden wasteland and they asked me about my cape
and then the conversation spiraled forward and we kept chatting
random coral
What did I just walk in to
hollow compass
Here is something to ponder: before the TS was introduced a lot more people would offer candles to become friends. These days, most people I see in the game just run past on their way to the next wax collection. I don't really like making friends through QR, because I prefer getting to know them through gameplay before unlocking chat.
dusty glen
The other issue with the TSs being random and spaced out so much is that they’re really easy to miss, and you’ll have no idea when they’ll be back. I’m not really sure how you would “fix” this though?
zinc prawn
me: lights up the moth
moth: ₕₒₙₖ
me:
orchid nexus
I played fire and earth quests this morning with a group. This is about talking: I was leading, and everyone was talking, and I *couldn't see where I was going with all that text
grizzled oxide
My character wouldn't feel like my character without the cape I wear most of the time. Which was from a TS. Having access to the TSes has let me fine tune how I express myself through my character. For me that is a core part of the experience. Is getting a new cosmetic and building outfits around that new piece.
(It's light seekers cape from shush spirit btw. I didn't know how much I wanted my character to have the slightly Spacey vibe that cape brings until that spirit came.)
tiny umbra
My first friend in sky was a moth that friended me and then I left the game cause I couldn’t handle the commitment
lusty light
Alex reprimanded me and velo for having a conversation when he was leading us in valley
prime lintel
I met Ral (IRLFine) in-game months before I joined the Discord (I think he was one of my first friends). I friended him because he had a cool cape. Never talked to him, named him Cloak because I ran out of creative names and didn't know about the name randomizer lol. Super fun to meet him again in-game and realize he was from the Discord.
silent lily
Those are some moments I always laugh on later Alex bahaha
random gull
Tronix here's a recap: we're at 16 hours straight off discussing the update about TS. Moffs and friendship vs cosmetics. And the mods are making fun of each other in game
radiant drum
Sera stop being mean to alex
lusty light
HES MEAN TO ME
empty river
no bully :(
mossy glacier
Why are colored people here what just happened
random coral
This is too good
somber yoke
This ap news gave me a headache today 🤣, bye yall, ima go make some spaghetti ✌😗
hollow compass
@orchid nexus EXCUSES! You always lead us straight into krill or just death in general. But seriously, the maze in fire is so confusing and I will not remember anything on Monday. Thanks, though.
latent oar
lovely people
orchid nexus
Also, I've played the fire quest with one friend before, but this time I went with 5 friends and it was really good. everyone should try to group up and play that quest with a large group!!! OTOH, earth quest was almost a rage quit with a group, especially the last section with spinning skittles because there was no way to stay together. Lost everyone. Finished alone.
radiant drum
That's just an alex thing. He pushed me off a bridge when we met
mild panther
that turned into a conversation between mods
willow garnet
can we just agree that ppl have different values and ways of enjoying this game, whether that’s friendships, new seasons, cosmetics, they’re all valid. please don’t force your way of enjoyment onto others. that’s all.
lusty light
Huh? I didn’t say my personal experiences speak for everyone...
turbid heart
I went backward to the start of fire trial and couldn’t see any candles in any direction beside the one i came from and thought it’s a bug for 10 min straight til i realized I’m a big dum dum.
dusty glen
Going off what ati said before, maybe you could make two different types of candles once you get enough light instead of one, so it would be one for friends and one for items. That way people would feel less pressured to conserve candles for the TS and be more social like they were before they were added?
orchid nexus
I'm sorry for being mean Seraph. I thought at first that Mirian said "Stop beating me to being mean to alex"
stark sundial
mods take it to DM 
||jk||
lusty light
My message above that said that there are people out there who would be happy to be your friend, even though there are some rude people
mossy glacier
*sneaks in mod dms anyway
random coral
I'm sorry for being mean Seraph. I thought at first that Mirian said "Stop beating me to being mean to alex"
BAHAHAHA
prime lintel
@turbid heart me too!!! Took me far too long to realize that fact
empty river
now this is the entertainment i signed up for
orchid nexus
Individual experiences and the subjective differences between them are part of what I like about reading people's thoughts in discord
silent lily
Thanks for changing the mood of this chat a bit mods
tiny umbra
Wait what was the original topic-
gilded parrotBOT
How many Sky could a Skybot bot if a skybot could bot bots?
rain delta
Well either way, TGC is going to have a hard time with this one, this doesn’t just impact a small group of people.. and I think it’s already spreading in live btw, just saw two people talking in a chat table on live about this 😂😂😂
terse swift
I’m sorry for talking alex I sure won’t do it next time
zinc prawn
thatskyrock?
gilded parrotBOT
I came as fast as I could!
orchid nexus
@rain delta and everyone else: please don't spread panic to Live. This is not going live right now. Or probably soon. See pins.
latent oar
@tiny umbra Maybe about how comfy would firedad's tummy be
dapper ginkgo
A rock?!
mossy glacier
Finally, no longer iap chaos.
MOD CHAOS!!
Also do you call a newbie mod a moth mod or a mod moth?
lusty light
Modth
dusty glen
I’m sure TGC will make the right call on this, it’s just an idea they brought up and there’s a reason why it’s only in beta at the moment. It’s what beta is for, seeing what works and what doesn’t
empty river
why is skybot a rock i dont...understand...
gilded parrotBOT
How many kids would a skykid kid if a skykid could kid kids?
lusty light
dark quail
🌈 to all
turbid heart
Because many people are asking about that one rock which moved permanently to sanctuary to fulfill its life long dream of jellyfish watching
Mfw a rock is having a better 2020 than me.
real mica
So that is the vacation rock
gilded parrotBOT
Robots have feelings too!
tiny umbra
Talking is banned hand me your chat privileges
Honking is the way to go
/j
I only ever honk at my friends unless I just did somethin sus and needed to explain myself
silent lily
@empty river see the patch notes for today's live update, pft
zinc prawn
well it didnt specifically say what kind of rock, so you could say.....
sky bot is a gem 
grizzled oxide
Something I just thought of to is how, because of the random nature of the TSes, this proposed system encourages you to buy season passes you might not otherwise want.
Not to attack anyone but enchantment did offer enough cosmetics to be worth the money to me. Or even the gift pass. (I literally told people to give their gift passes to someone else during enchantment)
dapper ginkgo
Because many people are asking about that one rock which moved permanently to sanctuary to fulfill its life long dream of jellyfish watching
So that’s why Skybot went down that one day!
swift edge
Things i do with friends in Sky: grinding, buy cosmetics, explore oobs, get krilled for fun, explore fun glitches.
Sure we used to get in game just to talk, but now that we know each other better we talk way more in discord.
But yeah.... griding is still a big part of our gameplay and sure, i can afford the pass for myself and all but half of my friends can't and i know how excited they all get when a spirit they like comes back, that's why i've been saying that it would be better if the new update on the TS mechanics didn't get to live version but let's see what happens
random coral
Wait if skybot is now thatskyrock does that mean... Skybot is the rock the went on vacation
mossy glacier
Robots have feelings too!
@gilded parrot errr
You're a rock
do rocks blush?
dusty glen
Rock bot, can we be friends?
vernal flare
Chatting in sky feels different as compared to chatting across text. Idk how to explai this feeling XD
lusty light
It’s bc you see a representation of a person
turbid heart
Chatting in discord doesn’t have the same feeling as chatting in Eden while trying to put rainbow and playing Titanic
lusty light
Like that’s Them
tame zinc
Wait no one talk about the beta update wat did i miss
lusty light
You might as well be FaceTiming
random coral
I bet if you and a friend know Morse code you could actually speak through honks the whole time
latent oar
Our cute skykids spamming emotes
mossy glacier
If bot is a rock, do you call it Brock??
silent lily
Chatting in sky is safer than Discord cause you won't accidentally press video call button
grizzled oxide
Face timing but I don't have to fix my hair. 100/100 perfect game
mild panther
Chatting in discord doesn’t have the same feeling as chatting in Eden while trying to put rainbow and playing Titanic
@turbid heart not sure why but it just gave me an idea to learn how to play Senbonzakura in eden
lusty light
Honking in Morse code seems hard and would take a while
Don’t you have to write down each letter
dusty glen
It seems more special maybe too, since chatting is limited in Sky to certain areas or to friends you’ve spent candles on
spark lance
Hjonk
lusty light
Yeah, you can’t chat with just Anyone
I actively reject chat with ppl until I’m ready
eager fulcrum
when i first played sky, i thought the only way to communicate was honking and that everyone was able to understand it but me
tiny umbra
Except the difference between FaceTime and sky is that you don’t have to use your voice
random gull
There's like a whole unspoken meaning to various honking though. You can almost tell what someone wants by the way they honk at you
empty river
spamming honks with a stranger feels way more special than just chatting to me
lusty light
What do you mean I scream every time I play sky
dapper ginkgo
If bot is a rock, do you call it Brock??
Does it use a frying pan as a drying pan?
lusty light
🗣️
random coral
Chatting in sky is safer than Discord cause you won't accidentally press video call button
@silent lily I’ve had that experience and it’s true
mossy glacier
Does it use a frying pan as a drying pan?
@dapper ginkgo no, it's a drying pun
lusty light
No puns 
turbid heart
I have sky friends that I “chat” with thru honk coz we found out we speak different language thru table and never to unlock chat for each other. I hope it’s a pleasant time for them as it is for me since after a while I realized we’ve been having a honking conversation for 30 mins.
spark lance
HJONK
silent lily
You guys can use translator
latent oar
I love doing stupid things with randos without any words
dusty glen
I’ve never had someone reject chat before so I’m not sure how I would react to that lol
Like, did I do something?! What happened?! Makes sense why you would wait until you feel ready though
lusty light
Yeah! I love that even though you may not be able to communicate with words you can still be friends and understand them
When I first started out I would chat with Everybody, I quickly got overwhelmed with all the people wanting to talk to me
vernal flare
I have the habit of spamming cry emote randomly out of nowhere and smacking my friend.
lusty light
So i decided to only chat with the people i play with a Lot
tiny umbra
If someone tries to unlock chat with me I accept and then fake a crash
And hope they forget next time
empty river
a couple of days ago i logged into beta, saw a chibi in home, lit them up and we started screaming at each other. Truly a memorable interaction
lusty light
Lyze just say no it’s easier...
dapper ginkgo
I have sky friends that I “chat” with thru honk coz we found out we speak different language thru table and never to unlock chat for each other. I hope it’s a pleasant time for them as it is for me since after a while I realized we’ve been having a honking conversation for 30 mins.
We have a friend who speaks Spanish. We use google translate to communicate with each other. And they are sooooo sweet!
lusty light
But then you have to avoid them bc you don’t want to talk 
silent lily
I have done fake crashes so many times
And you have too
lusty light
If you just say no they’ll understand
And you can still play with them
They might be a little sad but they’ll get over it lol
latent oar
Spam 
and run away as fast as you can 💨
dusty glen
Yeah, that makes sense. Sometimes it can be overwhelming with how many people try to talk to me when I’m online. when I’m tired it can almost give me a sort of performance anxiety I guess? Like I don’t wanna let my friend down by being too quiet
tight bloom
Tried to run away. Spam no emotes. But they just started crying while offering candles. Soo...
spark lance
Ok heading off to Mothdor now be nice to the mods, mothbits. Peace out!
mossy glacier
I use emotes to understand people!
||Also me, randomly crab dances on unlit moths,
Spams the mad emote to stomp on players lying down
Claps at piano players even if they're not yet done 
||
tiny umbra
I use emotes to understand people!
||Also me, randomly crab dances on unlit moths,
Spams the mad emote to stomp on players lying down
Claps at piano players even if they're not yet done
@mossy glacier wait not that last part no-
hybrid talon
I have done fake crashes so many times
And you have too
@silent lily or when u tired to do cr with friend and do fake crash oop
lusty light
Guys I swear it’s so much easier to just say no
turbid heart
Lol. I actually very quiet and introvert irl so I understand if someone doesn’t feel comfortable unlock chat with me. I won’t hold it against them.
To clarify with my previous msg that it’s not we didn’t wanna chat, it just we can communicate just fine without it so we didn’t feel the need to.
silent lily
It's weird but when someone plays a piano and keeps and keeps playing it , it gets a bit boring and I want to leave, but I feel if I leave they'll feel really bad so I have to stay there even if I'm not enjoying it :(
hollow compass
I may on occasion have logged on, seen that a friend was in Home space, and quickly teleported to another friend just so that I wouldn't have to talk to the first friend. Some days you just want to be quiet. Or that one friend is a little awkward.
kindred fossil
i've probably been writing feedback for almost an hour now, and i've seen a few gems such as "a" & "don't agree" pass me by. whoever you were, godspeed
dusty glen
No to what part?
lusty light
Don’t forget the almighty “hi”
empty river
others should respect your boundaries and viceversa. If you dont want to unlock chat they should accept that
proper helm
TS
mossy glacier
If we're all moths, does that make the elders our Mothers?
gilded parrotBOT
Hey @spark lance, how was your Sky day?
hidden quarry
oh my. skybot brave
latent oar
I learnt to say no once I found most of the moths disappeared from my list very soon
spark lance
Mothvalous, and yours, @gilded parrot?
tame zinc
Idk what did i miss the discuss becuz i see no one talk about it
dapper ginkgo
Is the bot possessed?
lusty light
The bot has feelings
turbid heart
Skyrock is having the time of their life watching jellyfish
silent lily
All thanks to Mods and shephs for Changing the topic, it was getting pretty not good tbh
vernal flare
!
dusty glen
Generally I let the other person decide if they want to unlock chat anymore tbh
empty river
people are mean to poor skybot theyre just trying their best
lusty light
Well it just ended up here, I didn’t change the topic on purpose :0
People get mad and then cool off
gilded parrotBOT
What do you all want now 
mossy glacier
I forgot this is beta chat ohmy
Aight imma go do server things, see yall
proper helm
How to waste two min slowmode 101..
tiny umbra
All in favor of moving chat above piggyback in the tree say aye
For legal reason I’m only half joking
lusty light
Skybot is always mad it seems
spark lance
“One moth to rule them all”
- Gandmoth the Grey
random coral
I saw someone talk about sneep and then skybot said don’t make me call the mods
lusty light
Sleep or else 
turbid heart
What’s “else”
latent oar
sneep for our life
lusty light
Else.....
dusty glen
I guess people were panicking earlier about something that isn’t a confirmed change
empty river
but its 4 pm >:(
silent lily
Well mods don't know what sneep snorp is but I think they still manage to keep their eyes closed for at least 8 hours and that's very good
lusty light
And yeah people read things and get worked up and that’s ok, as long as people are staying respectful and hearing what people have to say
random coral
Giccix you need the sneep even if it’s just a nap otherwise you get .
lusty light
I do get my full 8 hours 😌
dapper ginkgo
Me who functions on 4/5 hours of sleep everyday because I stay up past midnight to play with Australia:
hybrid talon
“One moth to rule them all”
- Gandmoth the Grey
@spark lance Rule two:
DoNt GraB SkYkIdS ArM iNsTead GivInG YoUr HaNd
hidden quarry
its always a great time to catch up on sneep snorp. says me
dusty glen
Yeah as long as people aren’t inconsolably screaming at the mods about how horrible they think something new in the beta is it’s generally good
tiny umbra
I am insomian’t and dont need more sneep snorp 13 is too much
feral minnow
it feels like me having beta is illegal because I'm only here to enjoy stuff I can't enjoy in live or see what'll happen in the next season 🏃
spark lance
Yeah, that whole "iM GonNa RIoT" thing was a bit much this morning.
kindred fossil
i will sleep
random coral
Giccix must sneep or get beaned 
dapper ginkgo
I don’t understand how people can sleep from 8 PM ‘till 3 PM. I just don’t understand.
lusty light
Playing beta regularly is enough to help the devs even if you don’t give feedback or submit bug reports!
empty river
i dont need a nap 
silent lily
@feral minnow ig that's literally the case with 50% of the players.
lusty light
I don’t submit many bug reports, I do send in feedback sometimes but
hidden quarry
when the mods dont even make the game and people yell at them about game features
latent oar
gives a hug to firedad and sneep
unless I dream about fire trial
lusty light
Just playing is analytics for the devs to see
ionic bluff
@feral minnow i really hope this isn’t rude but, beta is for testing out the season and giving feedback, not just for cosmetics
dusty glen
Or you could be like me and sleep 3 hours one night and 18 the next. Schrodingers insomnia
lusty light
So as long as you keep beta up to date and play you’re still helping
spark lance
Sadly, I may or may have not submitted more bug reports in live than in beta....so far. But certainly given alot of feed back. Well, alot for me.
hollow compass
Meanwhile in Live there is half a temple door standing in the water at the beginning of Isle. Was that ever a bug thing in beta? 😮
lusty light
I just give a few sentences here or there
feral minnow
sorry bros but I am not educated on the device I use for sky 💔💔 I can't find which writing is supposed to be the right info to put in a bug report so that's why I can never submit one 🏃 but I do give feedback regularly
lusty light
Some people write whole essays and I think that’s impressive
ionic bluff
They write better essays for a GAME than I do in school like
You guys have TALENT and are so dedicated
dapper ginkgo
Some people write whole essays and I think that’s impressive
Yes? You called?
dusty glen
I mean you lose the cosmetics you get in beta eventually anyway right, because of the progress wipes? So I don’t really understand the point of playing beta only for the cosmetics
silent lily
I wrote 4000 characters feedback on the season but most of things are still the same...m I think that's totally okay. I still love it
slim kayak
you can lose cosmetics, yes. but we haven't had a progress wipe in a long time. access wipes are different
empty river
jarvis dude i wish i could write essays the way i write feedback i'm always over the character limit
turbid heart
Me writing about fire trial: i tried to hug the fluff. Didn’t work out. Pls fix.
lusty light
Writing essays for feedback is easier I think bc theres not the pressure of grading or anything
You just need to be understandable
zinc prawn
ah yes, no teachers roasting your grammar or word choices
dapper ginkgo
Me to the fluffies: “IT JAKJENFKSJLFJSKRJLD”
My friends: “Naw it don’t bite.”
Me: “IT DO! IT DO BITE!”
dusty glen
Oh, I know about the access wipes. And yeah, we haven’t had a progress wipe in a while. But just the thought of one looming on the horizon is enough to make me not really care about cosmetics in beta. I’m there to help and test and check out the new stuff, not to look fancy
stoic ocean
My latest feedback regarding the trials was 4 posts 🤣
turbid heart
Plus you’re writing from your opinion, instead of trying to put yourself in someone’s mind or imagine a scenario that you likely never go through. It is easier to put into words what you’re passionate about.
random gull
So really weird question but do the devs know who discord users are on sky?
silent lily
There's literally no way they would or can or should know
dapper ginkgo
Writing essays for feedback is easier I think bc theres not the pressure of grading or anything
Freedom of speech. You are giving honest opinions and not writing for a debate. Not being held down by a stupid format that isn’t even fun to write in. What the frick is a thesis? You can start sentences using the word “I”!
ah yes, no teachers roasting your grammar or word choices
That too.
dusty glen
Imagine the devs DM you with all of the grammar and spelling mistakes in your feedback. Like “thanks but we noticed that you spelled this wrong. Also,”
hollow compass
@dusty glen it's funny, I actually feel more carefree about cosmetics and currency in general, since I did experience the progress wipe. So I get anything I feel like and even spend some time grinding in beta, if there is a TS with an item I somehow missed. But if I lose them, I lose them and that's ok too. I didn't spend any real money on anything.
silent lily
Wait there was a progress wipe!? When?
spark lance
Given the snow and ice aesthetic, I'm pretty sure the Trial of Air will be somewhere in Valley.
The real question is, where will the entrance be located
rustic imp
There's only been one progress wipe and that happened a long time ago. when sky released gobally a year ago if i have my dates corect.
radiant drum
It was about a month before global launch
flat shadow
I don’t know what you guys think about this but, I think buying prophecy to get pass TS items is kinda annoying, I am so excited for Prophecy, don’t get me wrong, I know so many friends who are pumped and preordered it, I just don’t think any of the cosmetics suit my style on Sky? But I think it is fair to have to buy a pass to get pass items, I think it should be when a TS comes back, temporarily in the shop is the AP that the TS is from? You don’t get a pendent or the season to repeat, you just have access to ALL the items as TS’s when they come back. Veterans still have an advantage because as a holder of the ‘new pass’ you still have to wait for a 1/25 chance for your spirits to come back. I just think it’s a little fairer than making players buy passes they don’t vibe with? but if they are in love with past season cosmetics have the option to buy that one instead? Sorry if this is explained weirdly heheh
dusty glen
@hollow compass that I can agree with. There’s definitely a lot less pressure, especially with season passes, since you’re not spending real money
latent oar
sneep snorp time ends
Anyways have a great day testers!
tiny umbra
I maniacally scribble feedback in my falling out notebook with an old crayon at night so I can look at it in the morning and be like “what was I thinking” and fix it before I send it
turbid heart
Last sanc I got burned out pretty quick trying to complete both live and beta (season cosmetics and Ts)
Now I just farm enough for the emote and use the cosmetics that come with the seasons.
Edit 1: It’s ok for people to discuss about this LoneWolf
silent lily
not this again
stoic ocean
A bunch of my past seasonal items are missing, I always thought they just wiped out some seasonal stuff
ionic bluff
WAITWAITWAITWAIT I tried on the Anubis mask with the orange cape and.... IT CHANGES COLOR THIS IS SO COOL
spark lance
Given the snow and ice aesthetic, I'm pretty sure the Trial of Air will be somewhere in Valley.
The real question is, where will the entrance be located?
dusty glen
What kind and color of crayon do you use Lyze
flat pelican
Hi- Every season now has their own areas I believe. Well, sanc and the next one does. So It is probably gonna stay in it’s own area.
silent lily
The trial of air is not in valley , it's a separate place in the sky that isn't technically in any Realm.
tiny umbra
Given the snow and ice aesthetic, I'm pretty sure the Trial of Air will be somewhere in Valley.
The real question is, where will the entrance be located?
@spark lance ok but the thing is all the trials are in a dreamscape place in the prophecy cave , also where did you get that idea
empty river
real buff moths write their feedback while they wait for the cooldown to end 😤 jk please dont be like me thats dum
spark lance
Is the TS thing conversation really still going? Jesus
hollow compass
@spark lance All of season of Prophecy takes place in Isle. I doubt they will suddenly move the trials before Monday's release to Live.
dusty glen
Not really, it’s mostly over @spark lance
flat pelican
For the Trial of Air, i’m assuming if it’s a snow n ice aesthetic, it’ll be in new little Pocket realm(s)? As in, the mini realms in areas.
spark lance
@spark lance ok but the thing is all the trials are in a dreamscape place in the prophecy cave , also where did you get that idea
@tiny umbra
I saw beta playtest footage on YouTube. The Trial of Air has a snow and ice aesthetic.
So if it's not in Valley somewhere, then how are we supposed to get to it?
silent lily
Tbh , the trials look like a whole different place so I'm not sure if they are themselves in isle or is it just the entrance that's there. I'm taking lore wise
latent oar
@spark lance You'll get to experience that soon! Maybe a bit further for wind trial though :p
spark lance
Wait all the trails have been moved to different areas??
Okay thanks cuz i didnt play for a hot min lmao
tiny umbra
...Who is spreading information I’d like to have a word
Did they not explain in the video ? That’s odd, it’s a meditation room that takes you there, think like the elder cutscenes @spark lance
dusty glen
It’s in a little “hub word” sort of area where you can find all of the levels/challenges together in one spot. It’s like the last few seasons where most of the stuff was in the new seasonal area
flat pelican
Is it still M i n i- r e a l m s tho? Basically?
spark lance
...Who is spreading information I’d like to have a word
Did they not explain in the video ? That’s odd, it’s a meditation room that takes you there, think like the elder cutscenes @spark lance
@tiny umbra
Yeah, I know about the meditation room. I'm just talking about the look of the trial itself.
empty river
always check your sources guys the trials are their own levels, you'll see when they become available its really cool!!
silent lily
@spark lance the trails are in a new place in the isle of dawn, which will be called caves of prophecies. They aren't in different realms.....
dapper ginkgo
Given the snow and ice aesthetic, I'm pretty sure the Trial of Air will be somewhere in Valley.
The real question is, where will the entrance be located
It’s in the isle, in the cave.
Well, it’s not in any place in the world, really. I personally think that you are actually not there. Like your spirit is there. But not your physical body. During the trials you still remain in the meditation room. But your mind is in the trials. Which is why you can’t use any of your spells and items during the trials.
A little. But it’s not imagination. It’s something a little like SAO if you’ve ever seen it. Your consciousness is there, but your body is here.
latent oar
Ah I think I get your meaning, like they're imagining where the original location would be for trails.
And yeah this season is quite special one, it doesn't not belongs to any existed realms I'd say.
