@olive drift thoughts on 10p LoT?
#China Shop
rugged kiln
In 10p LoT you should be careful about what you make the minions, probably not having more than one of Assassin or DA
fringe socket
I’d be against adding outsiders as well; just Typhon + Townsfolk
olive drift
Yes
olive drift
Had another good win
11/20
Even with the wins balancing out I am considering a change
Which is balloonist->acrobat
I think balloonist is a feel thing
With outsiders who out fairly often, sometimes balloonist info works out to be blindingly obvious
Acrobat is good at finding the drunk, or at least ruling out people as the drunk
mortal oar
I’d be against adding outsiders as well; just Typhon + Townsfolk
Gotcha, also wrt mayor having it in a bmr esque is interesting
Though I suppose hitting the mayor is subjective since the multikill is yaggababble
olive drift
Mayor is one of my less favoured characters on here. It's an effective bluff though
And mayor wins do happen
mortal oar
The other alt win condition i can think of is slayer but without scarlet woman yaggababble slayer falls short
And da sw is a lot of cushioning
olive drift
Slayer piercing DA I feel goes against what DA is good at
Also slayer and knight do pretty similar things
mortal oar
Yeah fair enough
olive drift
Version 2.6
"Woah, woah, woah wo- ahhhhhhh"
Balloonist 
➡️ Acrobat 
The high flying balloonist has been replaced with the high falling acrobat!
Balloonist does not do that well with Outsiders who are incentivised to out. Acrobat is a better Drunk finder than Balloonist, which gives it an unique role here!
With this change, I will update a ruling.
In a game with base 0 Outsiders, if the Vigormortis and Godfather are in play, there may be 1 Outsider in play.
This gives Godfather a use in Vigormortis games, and makes that pair of characters gel together better.
Happy clocktowering!
may i have a pin for this, and remove 2.5 and 2.55 as pins
fierce kestrel
## Version 2.6
_"Woah, woah, woah wo- ahhhhhhh"_
Balloonist <:balloonist:799483...
Did it :)
olive drift
And a look at the last games of 2.55 played to my knowledge
One evil suffered from a tea lady bluff gone wrong
The other was a really close and social game, with two equally viable worlds. I think they can be differenciated on the general information, but this was a really good game
olive drift
In short, I really enjoy this script and hope that with Acrobat, it can be even better!
fierce kestrel
Same. It is really fun.
quick pier
0 for 2 those games 😎
unborn cedar
evil won
oh and technically this was a game too
good won d1 because demon selfnommed and got executed
unborn cedar
yag phrase
olive drift
1 Win 1 Loss
50 50 winrate let's goo
😎
Okay i'm being facetious
How did this games feel
unborn cedar
Both minions were outed by the moonchild and gambler by d3 but it still felt like evil was winning the entire game
By a good bit
cinder coyote
## Version 2.6
_"Woah, woah, woah wo- ahhhhhhh"_
Balloonist <:balloonist:799483...
is the ruling gonna be officially bootlegged in script json or just word of mouth in the update changelog ?
olive drift
Word of mouth. This is how some people run Godfather+Vigor anyway
Maybe it should be bootlegged to clarify
It's on the script page, and on here
terse sleet
Not really related to this script but perhaps an outsider mod order is needed.
Demon > Minion > Outsider > TF.
olive drift
Also writing a bootlegger for something only relevant for base 0 Outsider games might make it seem more complicated than it is
My opinions might change. I like not putting bootleggers or jinxes where they're not necessary
rugged kiln
Yeah, a bootlegger restricts scripts in certain ways, and this a ruling that is officially unresolved, so doesn't actually need a bootlegger
lucid vault
good typhon win!
typhon ate the gambler and acro; pacifist saved itself and the mayor
Dave the Knight was Widow-poisoned, but town figured it was probably a good enough widow poison to disregard the ping being alive in f3
olive drift
yeee
Also on stream games we had 2 good Typhon wins.
I doubt that a single change from Balloonist->Acrobat would cause this
So early winrate looks like this script is back to good sided... but early winrates mean nothing at all
olive drift
good typhon win!
ye people sure do love widow poisoning knights
lucid vault
Maybe we need to start adding Outsiders to typhon bags again
olive drift
Maybe?
I felt at least the games I've seen, evil got unlucky or outplayed
For example in the 1st game I posted, the minions abilities had 0 effect on the game
The moonchild also picked the witch D1
olive drift
For example in the 1st game I posted, the minions abilities had 0 effect on the ...
By 0 effect I mean DA didn't protect anyone, assassin didn't spend and witch didn't get a curse off. And the ST PD Witch spent most the game on the mayor who didn't nom
In the 2nd game, the drunk was the General who got info that was "Good was winning" "Evil was winning" over and over again. Acro also died to that.
Tom H also I think was bluffing Grandmother who saw his grandchild as the... Grandmother
olive drift
It's unlucky that there was a drunk but yeah. Acrobat has proven its townsfolkness
olive drift
I guess the thing is with the Typhon is that "executing just to mitigate the Typhon threat" is usually a reasonable sounding thing to do
olive drift
I think I'll wait before more changes, but I am actually really happy with what this script looks like so far
lucid vault
did town not execute on f3?
tiny stone
guessing Demon bluffing Mayor
olive drift
Looks like it
karmic cove
Moonlight?
karmic cove
ah
olive drift
Everything that could have gone wrong for good did go wrong
Exe on the Savant in a double claim.
Vigor poisoned tea lady.
Vig abilitied assassin causing a final 4
fiery goblet
I'm a little worried the acrobat might be a little too good at tapping for typhon lines.
Actually, if acro is good at it, then gambo is better. And gambo's been here for a while.
olive drift
The thing with Acro/Gambler is that doing so results in death
olive drift
Part of me wonders if mayor->Banshee is good here but I worry that Banshee is too strong against Typhon
Evil has a whole lot of counters for Mayor
quick pier
mayor seems pretty balanced here ngl
white meadow
Mayor seems really hard to get to f3 on ngl
olive drift
It seems to fairly often
white meadow
Not in terms of surviving, but in terms of town actually having a f3
With all the variable death
olive drift
Yeah. It works better in longer games than shorter ones
7-9p China Shop is really difficult to tell sometimes
olive drift
I think Banshee might be more useful in shorter games while Mayor gets its power from longer ones
still fern
I recall Banshee being pretty miserable in practice when it was here
olive drift
I enjoyed the one game of Typhon when I played against it
Of the Banshee games this script had...
One had the banshee as puzzledrunk
Another just had it alive and demon was exed early
Banshee final 2 (sob)
Banshee being alive and me not killing it caused me to die as Typhon
Banshee final 3
Banshee not dying
yeah I can see why I took off Banshee
lucid vault
I enjoyed the one game of Typhon when I played against it
The reason why Banshee left for Mayor was to give town counterplay against Vig-DA and Typhon-DA endgames
olive drift
ye
ionic apex
why are alignments green and purple
rain parcel
Colorblind mode
ionic apex
figured, didn’t know that was a thing in the app! neat!
rain parcel
There’s like 7 modes too
ionic apex
neat
white meadow
Wait whatabout flow chart?!?!
olive drift
Flowchart depends on skill and socials
1 thing I'm thinking is that there are a good deal of characters which are harder to bluff on here
Now that balloonist (a pretty easy bluff) has been replaced with acrobat (something that kills itself in a fair amount of games)
Like safer bluffs for Demons are
Knight
General
Town Crier
Savant
Amnesiac
Fool
Fisherman
Mayor
Plague Doctor
Moonchild
Everything else either kills itself or needs more mechanical stuff to bluff effectively
And some of these, like Savant, Amnesiac and General, need some experience not to get your info to out you
olive drift
4/8 evil wins? 50/50 winrate?!
quick pier
4/8 evil wins? 50/50 winrate?!
running another game rn so thats about to be broken >:)
quick pier
Good win!
olive drift
Wow that yagga phrase...
I'm the Lord of Typhon??? 😭
did people think it was Lord of Typhon?
with that evil team placement it would make sense
quick pier
Wow that yagga phrase...
they asked for it
olive drift
I feel like though Typhon wins usually involve some jedi mind tricks
Or good figures out its a Typhon but the assassin or the DA means its too late
quick pier
ngl foxx’s typhon win was just from good gameplay
no one even built the foxx typhon world iirc
mortal oar
they asked for it
had a game that went like this:
yaggababble: given a generic phrase
yag: harder phrase
yag: is given a harder phrase
yag: says the phrase too many times
yag: is voted up and said it twice on accident
yag: "hey can you please kill everyone st"
mortal oar
@olive drift have you ever gotten this before? "The Drunk on LOT is unhealthy because of +- ? outsiders"
olive drift
Yes
It's why drunk hasn't been on the script for a long time
I agree but it's the best solution of the characters we have
To misinformation
Puzzlemaster, a very similar character, was on for a long time
The main issue with Puzzlemaster is that if evil want to bluff that there is a drunk in play from day 1 they need to
Claim widow ping
Claim Puzzlemaster
Both of which are pretty limiting
mortal oar
Random thought: Why would a puzzlemaster not out their character d1?
you know someone is drunk
sand mulch
if you out puzzlemaster on d1, you kind of have to use your guess on d1 too
mortal oar
have you tried sweetheart before
olive drift
No but i have considered
There are 2 issues with sweetheart
- Sweetheart and Plague Doctor Widow have an identical effect
- I want something that can poison the YSKs like Knight and Grandmother. I don't want every game without a widow ping to have the knight and grandmother say "oh I'm 100% sober and healthy then"
mortal oar
I think Drunk is the best to put there for aforementioned with PM (PM will come out early) and lack of plausibility someone's N1 information was compromised if no widow ping
is there a widow self poisoning trend?
mortal oar
yeah the last widow game I did I went balls to the wall and did it but didn't claim the "I heard it"
we won but it was an 8p with fang gu jump
also have you ever tried dreamer
I hear it works well with LoT and widow can claimbag it
olive drift
I have considered it
But I decided against it
Dreamer is good with LoT and Widow, I agree
1 interaction I think it isn't great with is Yaggababble
Dreaming someone as the Yaggababble is asking for what they're saying to be scrutinised by the dreamer
Which can be a not very fun way to lose
Maybe it's okay in practice
mortal oar
yeah that's interesting
olive drift
It's interesting but imagining lost games because "the dreamrr dreamt the Yagg as General/Yagg' N3 and suddenly the Yagg has someone scrutinising their every phrase feels unideal
I do welcome suggestions
This script was made with many suggestions from others
I made some changes I was only half convinced of to the script
But turned out to be great
mortal oar
I do welcome suggestions
TC in Typhon games, how does that work power wise
fiery goblet
ADD ATHEIST TO THE SCRIPT
olive drift
Boffin has
Grandmother
General
Savant
Fisherman
Amnesiac
Pacifist
Fool
Tea Lady
As good targets. Bolded are great
I have considered boffin before
My fear is boffin fool+DA
I really don't want a triple tapping script
Maybe it's a remove fool. I do see how Witch can be quite weak if they only curse once or twice
Witch helps Yaggababble a good amount though
It means Yagg can say their phrase fairly often and it isn't very obvious it's a Yagg game
Also
Time for a cool segway
Witch also weakens Town Crier a fair amount because it stops the Town Crier going "hey these specific players, nominate!"
Because the witch makes anyone asking someone specific to nom look suspicious
TC is great at ruling out Typhon lines
It's strong
But Typhon have 1 more minion to try and stop the town crier getting "no"
As long as the evil team is active, it's fine. Town crier is strong against Typhon, but Typhon has ways to weaken it
But that can affect socials. Which is nice
fiery goblet
I'm kidding
olive drift
At least from the games I've played of this script
It does feel like you're kinda stabbing in the dark
Until like final 7
fiery goblet
I have played Star's Edge, its a really good script. But atheist obviously doesn't work here, that was a joke.
Boffin is serious though.
olive drift
I like witch but I get that sometimes the witch prefers to hide
Boffin doesn't really help yagga and probably needs me to remove fool
fiery goblet
I like it too, but it feels there's too many ways for their target to survive
olive drift
Well mainly Tea Lady
Fool does but you are doing something
They are dying
Just don'ting
fiery goblet
Oh there's no sailor here
olive drift
There is no Sailor in Ba Sing Se
fiery goblet
Maybe leave it then
olive drift
Boffin is good with a lot of these townsfolk
I worry that boffin Amnesiac can open shenanigans
fiery goblet
Yeah, paci and fish in particular stuck out to me, as did tea lady.
fiery goblet
I worry that boffin Amnesiac can open shenanigans
Amne opens plenty of shenanigans on its own
olive drift
Boffin has
Grandmother
**General**
Savant
**Fisherman**
**Amnesiac**
**Pacifist*...
I made the full list here
It does
A good Amne is incentivised to solve them
An evil one is incentivised to shut up
fiery goblet
A good ST should probably leave a paper trail, but fair fair
olive drift
Oh for sure
mortal oar
@olive drift ok random question was there ever a version of this with no execution survival? Cause I made my own Typhon script and icl it ended up similar to this one (it was based off of a multikill script I already made, though)
I had scarlet woman as the escape hatch to let evil team hide lines better
the Typhon started as a joke because my friend group mainly attends two universities, which are... uhh... rivals
mortal oar
gotcha
quick pier
Boffin has
Grandmother
**General**
Savant
**Fisherman**
**Amnesiac**
**Pacifist*...
grandma can be positive utility although they can’t kill them
but can bluff it when there’s no widow ping
oh yeah
read the whole thing
quick pier
I had scarlet woman as the escape hatch to let evil team hide lines better
if you want to see a typhon script without execution survival and SW… 
rugged kiln
I love witch here
TPKs are kinda common on china shop (at least in my experience) so witches tend to want to not hide too much
Plus even if you get a kill it basically doesn't limit the other minions in play at all
Typhon could put an extra minion in play
It could just be a yag
(Or plague doctor, or maybe you're vig killed, or...)
mortal oar
TPKs are kinda common on china shop (at least in my experience) so witches tend ...
tpk is what again ?
olive drift
Total party kill
No good players alive
Witch is more free here compared to other scripts but it still does limit worlds somewhat
rugged kiln
When the evil team wins from no good players alive (and here i'm also including when the demon is DA protected on the final day with a good player alive that isn't final 3)
mortal oar
gotcha
rugged kiln
Witch is more free here compared to other scripts but it still does limit worlds...
True, but I think in comaparison to S&V where the extra deaths don't quite do enough, here, it does enough to be a genuine danger for the good team despite the world limiting
olive drift
ye
mortal oar
I love witch here
yeah I'd heard of yagga slayer (sw) allowing you to pull off some crazy bus/frame plays.
but yag witch creates paranoia
it seems
olive drift
well if your yagg is talkative
rugged kiln
China shop is one of the handful of witch scripts where I actually really like witch specifically on it
olive drift
yagg witch creates a way to have 2 evil kills per day/night
One 'witch kill' in the day, and one death at night
So the game doesn't feel that quick but good fall at a pretty fast pace
mortal oar
yeah mayor I heard isnt good in multikills but since yag is st-controlled you can make it more balanced
if you assassinate the mayor then that's an assassin spent on not killing characters like TC
olive drift
it isn't the best but the script does go to final 3 a fair amount
Lord of Typhon and Vigor are both 1kpn demonds
Sometimes the Assassin and Godfather chime in, but not too often
witch turns off in final 3
Mayor is weaker in small games, but fine in larger ones
mortal oar
Iirc you had Ojo initially but ojo/widow doens't work and this is 5/3 anyway
(I'm under the assumption OJo can get 2 players at times if you think it balances the teams)
olive drift
yes
Ojo was on originally
I didn't take it off for Ojo widow
It was a 4 minion 4 demon script
and there was no Assassin
I added assassin and removed Ojo
mortal oar
gotcha
mortal oar
It was a 4 minion 4 demon script
did you find 4/4 LoT is too obvious for LoT at higher counts, or is it an "it depends"
olive drift
ye
well
not really it's just I prefer having more minion variety
barely any games were played with the 4/4 version
mortal oar
gotcha
mortal oar
not really it's just I prefer having more minion variety
so uhh what I've heard is that with LM/LoT, 5/3 is better to obscure the world, but if your evil suite is diverse enough, then 4/4 is just fine
olive drift
if you want script building advice
yes, commonly Lil Monsta and Lord of Typhon are scripted with 5 Minions
This means in 13-15 player games, these Demons have some variety in what is in play
quick pier
what's the deal with that emoji?
oh i just like the emoji its unrelated to the script
karmic cove
What's the DA token doing there?
sand mulch
plague doctor
karmic cove
ah right
olive drift
Yee
olive drift
We kinda had it ebtween two worlds
but missolved the 50/50
i'm starting to be very happy with this version
quick pier
Good Mayor win, but a CRAZY photo finish:
the vig nommed the amne and got 2 votes, but as the timer ran out the mayor spaced out and so the amne nommed the mayor arguing they were evil for not trying to tie. 6 votes were put on the mayor, which could only be tied. then the mayor nommed, and it almost didn't tie but there were some last second raises and the good team won!
Surprisingly, no one built a typhon line that entire game.
PD made me an assassin who killed the gambler when they gambled the mayor, but on that same night the widow claimed tinker and got killed so the false gamble seemed legit
poor witch never got a kill
f3 was amne mayor vig
amne ability was "YSK the longest chain of alternating character types"
funnily enough it was also "YSK the longest chain of townsfolk"
rain parcel
amne ability was "YSK the longest chain of alternating character types"
MY GOAT
did they get it
this time
quick pier
*this time*
no but they guessed “longest line of tf” which was actually valid even though it wasn’t the ability
rain parcel
no but they guessed “longest line of tf” which was actually valid even though it...
did you bingo them
(because you know what, close enough tbh)
or just piping hot
quick pier
no i said lukewarm, in retrospect i should have just bingo’d
it was kinda a bad call on my behalf
rain parcel
that's not a lukewarm lol
that's probably the closest anyone's ever gotten for that one
quick pier
yeah i didn’t realize it was valid until i responded
rain parcel
it's such a cool amne ability too
rain parcel
as always
(when has it ever been below a 5)
maybe that's because we run it on arbitrary O-mod scripts where that's not crazy but like
still
mortal oar
how strong do you find TC vs LoT to be if no witch/widow ping is in play?
it seems on paper:
- TC could literally just be the drunk
- Typhon has to be solved for
- Multiple players will nominate per day
@olive drift
unborn saddle
meow...
mortal oar
yeah that was my b I got you confuzzled with the scriptwriter
unborn saddle
Happens very often dw
When this script was showcased on a tpi stream i got so many congratulatory dms 😂
mortal oar
HAHA
olive drift
Pfff
Hiii Autumn
Town Crier can literally be the drunk. But it's the same as any character
A Town Crier no basically rules out many Typhon lines
Typhon minions can nom to get around this
But that can lead to socials
And solving if the Town Crier is the drunk in non Typhon games isn't arbitrary
It's a strong character
Probably one of the stronger townsfolk on the script
mortal oar
But that can lead to socials
To 
, it's a team game, that's to be expected? Or is it like the order players nominate?
even in a base-0 you have GF to obfuscate OS count anyway so you can't 100% rule out someone being The Drunk
olive drift
This seems more like a drunk issue than a town crier issue
Knowing that a Minion nominated or didn't nominate is helpful
mortal oar
yeah it is esp since DA is your parachute
olive drift
I have seen rather extreme games
Not with drunk on script
But where there were 6 nominations day 1, no one in the Typhon line nominated, and the TC got a no
mortal oar
It's a strong character
Idk how most people regard town crier as, but it seems to be a decent character in almost every script
Unless recluse is on the script
olive drift
it shines where there is a witch
mortal oar
@olive drift this is to prevent a cheesy "only these players nom" right
every day I learn that there's some way to cheese evil characters i.e the aforementioned dream/yag
olive drift
ye
olive drift
evil loss
white meadow
damn d1?
olive drift
Evil win
lucid vault
olive drift
yeah
I made the amne ability a bit too convoluted again but it didn't matter bc they didn't consult
Oh and Curtain was Drunk
olive drift
damn d1?
Yeah
The Typhon loss flowchart usually starts with a General getting "evil is slightly winning"
white meadow
even though widow poisoned?
unborn cedar
widow is poisoned
white meadow
oh i misread the tokens whoops
olive drift
yeah
I mean
the general info lead to them directly executing the demon so
I guess it worked?
anyway this is the first time that, the script is v near to a 50/50 winrate
at this early stage
6/13 is not bad
mortal oar
@olive drift okay this is from a convo I had outside the server, and it wasn't related to China Shop at all (so apologies if this is the wrong place to say it), but if you had special Demons like Lil Monsta and/or LoT would 5 minions 4 Demons be too unsolvable? In Typhon's case it is already overall considered weak anyway so it might be "just throwing a bone" to evil team.
I mean, 4/4 LoT seems to be workable i.e Whose Cult is it
olive drift
Feel free to experiment with broader scripts
More evil characters mean more variance in evil teams
You can definitely make a fun and balanced script with 5 minions and 4 demons
white meadow
4/4 just means you can rule out demons based on volume at lower counts, and at higher counts certain demons mean all minion abilities are in play
looking at that 4/4 specifically
mortal oar
You can definitely make a fun and balanced script with 5 minions and 4 demons
this sounds mega dumb but "then why don't I see any well known 5/4 scripts"
though I assume the context that'd necessitate you to try one would be a character as unique as LoT
or another homebrew +1 minion
white meadow
usually 5/4 is more power for the evil team which is hard to balance, plus until the recent update, the script tool maxed out at 25
so 5/4 would involve either 3 outsiders or 12 townsfolk
mortal oar
so 5/4 would involve either 3 outsiders or 12 townsfolk
gotcha, my concept is 13 + 4 + 5 + 4
the only "12 tf" i can see is VI shenanigans or atheist being listed as a TF
white meadow
so 5/4 would involve either 3 outsiders or 12 townsfolk
to be clear neither of these are very good things for a script
mortal oar
I've never seen <13 <4
white meadow
the only "12 tf" i can see is VI shenanigans or atheist being listed as a TF
yeah it doesn't work for the most part
which is why there weren't 5/4 scripts before
the new script tool makes it more feasible
mortal oar
so. 13/4/5/4 literally wasn't possible to publish until recently unless you wrote all your characters on a google doc and printed it or something?
mortal oar
13/4/5/4* I forgot to add
mortal oar
usually 5/4 is more power for the evil team which is hard to balance, plus until...
ok I havent even been a played for a year... the original concept for BOTC was for single digit players initially, and referencing the "midville" scripts I have seen there's like 9/3/3/2 or something?
white meadow
typically 10tf, but thats a separate concern i think?
mortal oar
I mean, in this it just seems like a similar story: It started out centered at a lower number of characters and then as time passed I guess 
with something new?
mortal oar
You can definitely make a fun and balanced script with 5 minions and 4 demons
I might be too tired right now but random thinky thought I threw at the wall, all 3 Demons have "great power, great responsibility" (+1, vigor killing a da/assassin, yagga is yagga), I've heard No Dashii and LoT somewhat cover for each other as well (no I am not suggesting anything, this is your thing, and I think that No Dashii would be incredibly awkward next to a gambler or grandmother)
olive drift
Evil win
olive drift
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBgZiQhDe7Q Also this game
Spoilers : ||Evil win||
It is a very funny game
mortal oar
typhon + gf + assa + witch
"JUST DIE"
tropic tree
It is
unborn cedar
entire evil team outed final day to solve elli's amne ability of
Each night choose a player learn if they are minion or demon
oh also demon claimed tc with a 1 d2 and was executed and da protected so assassin killed them and went next
oh tbc evil team outed because the mayor that had survived execution twice in a row was in final 3
eager yarrow
Yeah
The Typhon loss flowchart usually starts with a General getting "evil is sl...
Why would a general learn evil is winning just because a typhon is in play? The demon is designed to be balanced
lucid vault
Why would a general learn evil is winning just because a typhon is in play? The ...
If the Typhon turns several powerful Townsfolk, it can lead to setup swing that might have evil start winning
olive drift
Why would a general learn evil is winning just because a typhon is in play? The ...
In that game, you had +1 evil. Both outsiders remained in play. The Townsfolk were Fool which doesn't get info, Acrobat which doesn't directly find evil players, the Amnesiac who was the only player who gets info and general.
olive drift
entire evil team outed final day to solve elli's amne ability of
Each night cho...
So did evil lose?
Ahhh
8/17 evil wins
It's almost suspiciously close to 50/50
mortal oar
oh also demon claimed tc with a 1 d2 and was executed and da protected so assass...
that's happened to me before (I wasn't evil), demon bluff TC but said a # not a "y/n", they had scarlet to catch it but the damage was done
unforutnately the demon rq the game
mortal oar
@olive drift general LoT question if you have a 13+ can you do M -> LoT -> M -> M -> M
I got told "yes" 2 weeks ago but I just got told "no"
sand mulch
lord of typhon's "you are in the middle" actually just means "you arent on the ends"
tiny stone
In fact Jams said the exact opposite in the reveal game
I don’t really know where that misconception came from tbh
mortal oar
the wiki's example of a 15p Typhon has M -> M -> LoT -> M -> M
tiny stone
Yup
olive drift
I don’t really know where that misconception came from tbh
I mean the ability text doesn't make it that clear
mortal oar
@tiny stone ok I think the confusion is "You are in the middle" and the example on the wiki having the Typhon in the exact middle in a 15p game
quick pier
i’ve always ran that Typhon must be in the very middle
and iirc that’s backed by TPI
but as long as you make it clear how you’re running it i think either way is fine
cinder coyote
and iirc that’s backed by TPI
the character reveal video as linked above says explicitly otherwise
and i know botc reddit isnt the best but also https://www.reddit.com/r/BloodOnTheClocktower/comments/1nuaxlc/pandemonium_institute_please_fix_typhon/
quick pier
Now i know Jams said something else somewhere else
olive drift
it's funny how the 12p cap on this server means we have some misconceptions
mortal oar
I mean the ability text doesn't make it that clear
reference points:
- I asked this earlier once and 2 people said yes
- I read the wiki and it didn't say in a 13+ the LoT is in the exact center
Context: I ran Typhon in a 14p and I did Widow -> Typhon -> GF -> Assa -> SW, since the way tokens were pulled meant that all the strong characters werent' neighboring Typhon I made the Savant the SW and post game someone said I didn't do it correctly
they weren't a jerk about it like they said "you know I had fun, it's all right" which is what the game's abt an allat
mortal oar
@olive drift random thought if widow poisoned grandmother N1 and requested "I want them to see me as this character" what would you say?
olive drift
If they can figure out a way to do it in person, maybe?
ionic apex
point at the grandmother in the grim, point at their widow token in the grim, and indicate the character either via pointing at it on the grim, pulling it out of the token box, or pointing at it on the script
i’m also a supporter of just having people do specific questions/ideas/requests via notes app or whatever else
mortal oar
If they can figure out a way to do it in person, maybe?
they wake up, write on their phone "can you register the grandmother as insert character to me if I poison them?"
mortal oar
I know mutant isn't here, but you could do a Drunk grandmother seeing someone with a mid claim as the mutant to throw shade on the OS count
showing a grandmother someone is the drunk sounds weird af to me
but I suppose it could work because you can reverse false information into true information or if they are a drunk gambler and they gamble an evil player "correctly" then you can say "they are the drunk, the social vibes of the evil player seem too excited"
lucid vault
If they can figure out a way to do it in person, maybe?
I've had this happen before as someone STing a Widow who wanted to doubleclaim Grandmother with the widow-poisoned grandma — it's very possible
maybe it is for @vapid escarp and nobody else idk
mortal oar
wdym "doubleclaim grandmother" here can't he already do that by seeing the GM on N1?
vapid escarp
Oh yeah this was awesome
It wasn't a good play to be clear but it was awesome
I widow poisoned the grandmother and asked to be seen as the cannibal, which was in play
Town figured it out 😔
They also meta'd me really hard which was really funny because of COURSE I'd do that
mortal oar
i see
mortal oar
I mean similarly in TB I tell spies "please tell me if you are mad as something"
if spy kamikazes on virgin I'll default to executing the spy but if there's an undertaker I would like to back up his claim
if it's a new player I won't say "mad as" because madness is down the road
mortal oar
yeah I feel that a TPI storyteller would do that
thinking about this, esp with characters like savant, dreamer, even librarian, evil team should/could be told before the game starts "there are st-agency characters in play, if you want me to help your team talk to me"
olive drift
This is the script of the "Month" yipppeee
olive drift
Good win
9/20
rain parcel
so that's now 45%
olive drift
It was a tough game for evil though
Savant kinda... insta solved
D1
Either
The Outsider count has been modified by the Demon T
Or
You Neighbour 2 good players F
AKA - If there is a Typhon line, they probably are neighbouring you.
We also had an amne which got fruits of different colours depending on character types
Savant is in a weird spot on this script
This is low shenanagins
rain parcel
what's the current script
olive drift
It requires a very careful touch to run savant (and amnesiac) well here
rain parcel
oh
olive drift
in pins
rain parcel
yea
olive drift
Gambler also is proving to be a consistent... eh
Gambler is fantastic
Minions bluffing Gambler without assassin turns into them either doing nonsensical gambles by N3 or just limiting their worlds while they confirm good players
Part of me feels that actually this is the type of script Princess might do well on
Good have limited info on day 1, so having a princess to unite around is at least a topic for conversation
rain parcel
Minions _bluffing_ Gambler without assassin turns into them either doing nonsens...
could just kill em at night
rain parcel
Good have limited info on day 1, so having a princess to unite around is at leas...
oh it's peak here
olive drift
I'll wait to see what people think about savant->princess...
tropic tree
Hello i want china shop with no information… NO INFORMATION?
olive drift
Social info is info
rain parcel
well no it might literally be confirmation
fool/pacifist
no sinking
so actually, it's peak here
olive drift
Fool/Tea Lady allows you to sink if you're lucky
Or you could be a Yagg who doesn't say their phrase
rain parcel
Fool/Tea Lady allows you to sink if you're lucky
not tea lady
olive drift
So it's not as strong confirmation.
It does give more time for good to science
rain parcel
that exists
olive drift
Like it's very possible I'm just extrapolating too much from 1 game
rain parcel
nah
olive drift
I know I can do savant here but I also know it's freaking difficult
tropic tree
Indirect information that points to future science breaking, and other people's information having extra information on them is my way to go
rain parcel
I know I can do savant here but I also know it's freaking difficult
oh no savant was always weird
gambler is fine
tropic tree
Like: One the knights pings has different alingments neighbors.
Ballonist type info
You cant go simple and strong here because it stomps evil
You gotta get creative.
tropic tree
Get more whimsy but mathematical then
Savant for me its like the social glue of this script
rain parcel
nah
unborn cedar
Part of me feels that actually this is the type of script Princess might do well...
i think its a little awkard with yag here because it doesnt stop you from 'witch' killing at all
tropic tree
Autumn hasnt seen my peak China Shop Savant info yet
olive drift
i think its a little awkard with yag here because it doesnt stop you from 'witch...
I guess but it still has a big upside and helps you read that it's a Yagg game
quick pier
noooooo savant is fun here
olive drift
Perhaps it is just a case of good savant info v bad
lucid vault
I think Savant is just great here
There's just enough bullshit going on to where it feels fun to make Savant info
olive drift
Yeah this might just be a case of a ST being less careful than they could have been making savant info
Still, I do think princess is interesting.
The script being so low droison does mean that while there isn't a lot of info, info is strong
olive drift
Yeah this might just be a case of a ST being less careful than they could have b...
This script is difficult to ST
lucid vault
Still, I do think princess is interesting.
The script being so low droison does...
pinging @fringe socket since he recently took Princess off of his deathmod script and might have thoughts
olive drift
Like I want to make china shop accessible
lucid vault
I tend to script Princess as a confirmation character that allows characters that thrive off multiple nights of information to do something. Without, like, a Balloonist, I'm not really sure what the Princess is actually enabling here?
Like, TC, I guess
olive drift
It enables TC
lucid vault
maybe Gambler/Acrobat but the Princess removing a Demon death adds another layer of confound if they end up dying
olive drift
It enables more consistent tea lady confirmation
lucid vault
I don't really see the exigence for adding Princess, I guess
olive drift
More time for Amne to solve
lucid vault
I don't think it makes the script any more accessible as much as removing Savant seriously hurts the good team
like, it's fine if a script is hard to ST
unborn cedar
I do think its interesting for princess to nom the fool to prevent demon sinking worlds
olive drift
I mean that game was us voting on the demon candidate on D3
It might just be a case of savant being run like SnV, and Amne being run as info amnes
Which felt more suited to a higher info script
rain parcel
Princess+fool/pacifist= “the princess is good in non-yag games”
olive drift
I ran a game which evil won, but I ran pacifist really poorly
rain parcel
Princess+fool/pacifist= “the princess is good in non-yag games”
This is a good thing
olive drift
yea
olive drift
i may wanna experiment with it
mortal oar
i may wanna experiment with it
what would princess replace
olive drift
There aren't that many shenanagins on this script, which makes savant info a bit tricky
it can solve very quickly at times
tropic tree
Savant here demands isoteric and some time ST directed information.
More about the feel of stuff happening after facts that stuff that might happen
I more inclined to give out ballonist information thru here, or Steward information
unborn cedar
i love giving info about the drunk to the savant sometime during the game
mortal oar
that's a very simple but effective savant statement, esp for d1/2 i think
rugged kiln
I'm a very big savant china shop enjoyer
tropic tree
That too
restive fulcrum
"barch will survive execution today"
wait this is so fire why have I not thought of this type of info
karmic cove
The classic "you are witch-cursed"
olive drift
Yeah Savant gives different info on different scripts
tropic tree
olive drift
MORE????
tropic tree
Yep
Cool concept patters does in this game huh
Peak savant and Peak Amnesiacs here
olive drift
Maybe that is actually what I need
Just giving inspiration about what savant statements are good here
One I found fun was
"There are more Minions than Outsiders in play"
Talking about evil waking patterns for evil also is cool because Yagg is a demon that wakes N1 and no other time (so the reverse of most demons.)
mortal oar
@olive drift ok I'm throwing stuff at the wall but what if you did Joe's bootlegged gossip?
as in if it's a yaggababble game and the Gossip said a true statement, the Gossip will die
well, you do have tea lady so that would just be sucky
olive drift
While it works, putting a bootlegger on suddenly on a script which works fine without it seems unnecessary
I want it to be accessible
mortal oar
yeah I wouldn't fix what isn't broken heh
fiery goblet
Flowchart loss (technically)
olive drift
12/24 evil wins
They didn't even have a chance to kill
Knight in smaller games shows its strength probably
fiery goblet
They didn't even have a chance to kill
Yeah, they didn't kill a minion and lost. Technically that's a flowchart loss.
olive drift
You're the best kind of correct and that's technically correct
vapid escarp
It's a flowchart loss, even if evil didn't have the chance to follow the flowchart
olive drift
Another good win!
mortal oar
Livetext Good Vigor Win
DA bluffing Tea Lady gone wrong
lemme guess they didn't let the 'TL' choose who to test
tacit gorge
Player perspective of China Shop on TPI stream now.
olive drift
Oh yeah thsi game, good won on like day 2
:P
this script feels tough for evil to pilot
quick pier
bluff better
olive drift
yeah perhaps
tropic tree
Balonist used to be very easy bluff
mortal oar
how is ballooonist easy to bluff? I feel it's quite hard to bluff (non-widow)
sand mulch
you dont need a widow to bluff balloonist. just alternate players you want to frame and relatively trusted players
olive drift
Balloonist also just makes outsiders much easier to claim
mortal oar
this script feels tough for evil to pilot
how so?
(am planning to run this soon)
the demons being glass cannon-y?
olive drift
not much misinfo
mortal oar
you have drunk/widow/vigor as sources
widow is static and loud, vigor is trackable with poison if you build "vigor game"
this was ranked a 4/5 on the site tho
mortal oar
@olive drift I don't think this is worth the salt esp. since you have excellent "oh shit they got me" bluffs but vigor bootlegged to not be -1?
lucid vault
<@404699631172452352> I don't think this is worth the salt esp. since you have e...
No
mortal oar
No
I'm curious what the logic for vigor -1 initially was just cause I haven't been here long
karmic cove
Vigor -1 and plague doctor my beloved
still fern
I'm curious what the logic for vigor -1 initially was just cause I haven't been ...
Complicated and very contextual, but essentially "bluffspace for a bluffspace-dependent evil team"
fringe socket
I'm curious what the logic for vigor -1 initially was just cause I haven't been ...
Additionally, SnV needed a -1 Outsider Demon & one that poisoned players - Steven just put them together for the Vig
karmic obsidian
can also (occasionally) result in more choices for vigor poison
unborn cedar
tea lady died n2 without testing
but they still used the tea lady to solve general info
it felt good and i thought the godfather was going to be executed final day for sure
olive drift
12/27 evil wins
terse sleet
XD OMG I was about to say "This script title is already a very popular script" and then noticed you changed your name.
olive drift
it happens every once in a while
mortal oar
Dreaming someone as the Yaggababble is asking for what they're saying to be scru...
just got out of a live text game people used the discord search history to look up peole's chats..
they were asking people to not talk
youre right ts does happen
severe oriole
Yaggababble unfortunately has significant problems with perfect recall
rain parcel
Just got a d1 bingo on an amne ability
it hardsolved the game
Vigor+GF+Amne+Fool+TC+General+Mayor game
Good win
it is mildly an outlier.
quick pier
Just got a d1 bingo on an amne ability
what was the ability
rain parcel
what was the ability
"Each night choose 2 players, learn how many letters are in their character names combined"
n1 I got a 10
unborn cedar
11-9-8-4-9-7-5
No combination of 2 characters makes 10?
orchid canyon
11-9-8-4-9-7-5
No combination of 2 characters makes 10?
mf picked the mayor twice
severe oriole
I would hope it's not actually a Godfather 0 7 player game and there were characters in that weren't in the list 😜
tropic tree
Its there a text game archived of this script i want to see examine
Cause tomorrow im going to ST this script yippie
errant sleet
Its there a text game archived of this script i want to see examine
https://discord.com/channels/1447544308675907656/1468880542047932524 was the most recent one i remember in longtext
errant sleet
yes
tropic tree
The game in particular
Can you pass me the savant info of the game just to get some inspiration
sick gustBOT
Gave +1 Thanks to @errant sleet (current: #34 - 1031)
errant sleet
no problem
tropic tree
Painfull game for good, good wasted too many votes and loss.
Amnesiac was a preacher who made minions act like yaggabable with super lousy stuff
rain parcel
11-9-8-4-9-7-5
No combination of 2 characters makes 10?
Mayor+selfpoisoning widow
tropic tree
Words being:
Dont cry baby girl
I freaking love science
Shut it up boy
rain parcel
Egh
tropic tree
Amnesiac was a new player and i gave hints each night. Only got a super warm on day 4.
Very interesting social dynamics happened, also Savant made it to final 4 it was so painful to give the last statements
I was almost just saying the demon its X player
It was a tough game for everyone.
Because the evil team didnt realize that they needed to say the words
Even thou i told them to
Good team solved the game at least thou.
tropic tree
I have found out im not ready for this script yet
olive drift
It's deceptively tough to Storytell
rain parcel
That is a drastic icon change damn
olive drift
Is it now <3
mortal oar
It's deceptively tough to Storytell
I gave gambler widow ping expecting them to die at some point
they didn't but they gambled a chain-poisoned info role so I arbitrarily (yag) killed them to get the message "this guy's information is compromised"
he malded a bit but it came down to pure 50-50 and pure charisma from the evil team.
taht same game the mathematician was OUT COLD n1 cause he took a bunch of tylenol so I gave widow-poisoned player false info and the math a 1 and then killed the math out of sympathy
math had game solving info but was too drugged up to win it
unborn cedar
the china shop mathematician!
mortal oar
it wasnt china shop but a similar Typhon themed script
i didnt realize this was the CS channel when I wrote it lol
tropic tree
Painfull game for good, good wasted too many votes and loss.
This was a 2 hour game 😭
olive drift
I am wondering about Amnesiac honestly
The intent is that it has abilities which is like witch, devil's advocate and stuff like that
Often amnes are run as usual and some abilities turn out strong on a script which isn't built for it
tropic tree
That amnesiac was a blast thou really funny to have minions have to claim yaggabable words
Cuz the amnesiac ability was like a forced yaggabable mixed with preacher
You dont say your phrase you dont have an ability!!
It was really strong but the amnesiac was clueless to what was happening
They knew they were absolutelly destroying the evil team somehow!
mortal oar
Often amnes are run as usual and some abilities turn out strong on a script whic...
is that wrong per se? As long as they do not confirm that the player is the amnesiac
would you swap it with princess or another info role?
mortal oar
Amnesiac its peak
I ran an incredibly infantile amnesiac ability last week (each night you learn how many explicitly female characters are alive -> CM/SW/Widow)
in retrospect I should have just done some lame shit like a clockmaker for minions or vigilante
the amnesiac didn't guess it until the end
however this kinda does raise an interesting question, "what is the point of amnesiac on your script?"
olive drift
The intent is that it has abilities which is like witch, devil's advocate and st...
Here is the intent
mortal oar
that's interesting...
why mechanical vs info? just cuz of how daykills take center stage here?
lucid vault
flowchart loss
olive drift
Zamn