Water Beaver Overhaul

[shell fiber]

oh crap 😅

[cloud flax]

Was it the corner near stairs?

[shell fiber]

presumably jumped on the road from the stairs x fence area

hmm... weird, the resource counter does't display properly 🤔

[devout obsidian]

Wow I never before had 500 beavers on any map. Just did bots, the wonder and was done lol. Now here I'm still before ENS.

Admittedly cheating a lot with the unconnected buildings...but first time playing wp

Still had about 3 mass starvations, like down to 15 beavers .

[shell fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/game-of-thrones-shame-ringing-bell-walk-of-shame-gif-13316112511080767236

well if that's your first game with this faction...

but i think you're really not getting the proper game experience doing that 🧐

first zipline activated !

i need to make a second library, science is just too slow 😅

[devout obsidian]

I think I get it. Needs some other map not requiring one to build lots of levees in hours.

[shell fiber]

good progress i think

science is such a pain 😅

small issue with the tutorial : science is super scarce, yet making more lab glassware is locked behind the large farmhouse, which would at best be the second or third blueprint you'd unlock

i'll likely add a cabbage-based methane reciepe

anyway, gotta go !

[livid zephyr]

you made the pain...

[devout obsidian]

How many beavers is there?

[shell fiber]

I have only what I deserve 😅

But I like the balance, it really makes you want to have brainsalts and/or a second library

Unfortunately my paper production is being gobbled up by blueprint duplication

I also unsure what to think about the power wheels. Having the big one blueprint-locked is a bit pointless since it costs 1500 science

[cloud flax]

But those big wheels are indeed pretty powerful. If placed properly, a small set of them easily surpass the small nuclear reactor

[radiant arch]

yeah, science cost does work fine imho. just little value in the blueprint really at that point (usually around ENS unlocked)

it's still fun to make those, and it gives some science points if there's enough paper

actually a little surprised: i not had any issue with paper really?

hmm.. seems there's no real resin production yet?

i believe it's usually double of that pine area for me around that stage of colony

[storm gulch]

Better than dying to bad water or a grue or some unfathomable horror devised by a guy named lapan, at least

[devout obsidian]

i find sus that they never overdose on the salts..or that's the grue?

[shell fiber]

I think my population is around 250-300 ish 🤔

Wdym ? I have a whole forest of pines 🤔 although I did cut it down a couple of times to get extra wood

Ah

Yeah I was slow to expand my forestry, the second everblossom plantation on the left has just been planted

No the grues are in the mines (zork ref)

[radiant arch]

i found resin is most limiting this early. especially for paper - and some for foods. i often struggle to have enough to scale population / demand

hmm. guess 150~ of them is a good number. misunderstood the seedlings there

[woeful sun]

Long Names is now uploaded to Steam Workshop and mod.io

[wary panther]

I asked about this once before, but would it be possible to make the Sequia and Bamboo have "Uncovered" models that hide most of their foliage when using the layer tool? It's really hard sometimes to see through to what's beneath (paths, brambles, etc)

Oops, didn't mean that to be a reply to the "second library" comment, my bad

second library was going to be a snarky response about how one would ever manage to produce that much kimchi - I rarely managed to even run one library at full-bore (rather than pausing it as food runs low) until long after I've unlocked the tree nursery (for domesticated brambles), the ENS (for clockwork cabbage farms), etc

Everytime I try to rush science the result is either the happy fun land death camps, or maybe (if things don't go quite that badly) we build mass numbers of contamination jails and send them off to hack on relics for science until they get contaminated, and then they can go to contamination jail and not eat any of our remaining supplies until they feel better. (and we've gotten a new harvest in)

contamination jail has saved many lives 🤢

[wary panther]

Is it intentional for whitepaws that Bobing's seep cover doesn't support opening/closing via automation? Or does it not support that in other factions either?

[brave ivy]

It should have 3 options
Open
Closed
Auto.

You have to actually select the auto mode for the Automate button to show up.

[wary panther]

ah, there we go.

Ok, error between keyboard and chair

[brave ivy]

XD

I made the same mistake until I looked closer.

Its the same functionality as the badwater Dome

Anyway, bed time.

[devout obsidian]

Clicking on the valve lodge slider can still crash. This time it was completely newbuilt one. Can I do something to help?

[radiant arch]

i forgot to push the fix for this case..

[livid zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/shame-bell-game-of-thrones-walk-of-atonement-cersei-lannister-gif-16635977892557113898

:p

[radiant arch]

ok.. for you.. i'll stop playing around and push an update..

just .. why is the outflow limit set to basically 0 now? hmm.. maybe i looked at the wrong value there 🙂

[radiant arch]

for whatever reason i can't change value on the valve house anymore - with or without my script.. the slider just wont work anymore? - seems to be an issue with experimental?

[shell fiber]

Ah, I got a better idea for the methane issue : rather than a cabbage to methane recipe in the fermentation barrel, I think a nenuphar recipe in the florist is better, it allows access but is much more restricted in output

[cloud flax]

That reminds me, i think it would be nice to have 2 recipes in the clockwork lotus farms, 1 for lotus and other for nenuphars

[radiant arch]

GMO can make flowers

wouldn't a clockwork for them just be for visuals?

[cloud flax]

Hmmm yeah maybe... Just fits the lore better. GMO growing mushrooms and fruits feels fine but blooming flowers idk...

Waaaiiit how did lapan change skins of crops for cabbage clockwork?

Like if it can be used to replace any crop, maybe there can just be 3 clockworks

One for ground crops: cabbage, sunflower, peas (maybe even brambles and pumpkins)

One for water crops: rice, lotus

One for trees: logs, chestnut, pine resin?

GMO could maybe used to synthesis mint shoots maybe rather than flower?

[radiant arch]

there's artificial resin from the abyss. otherwise i see your point..
but that would make grapes a GMO thing too (no fun for gameplay) and chestnuts aren't really good to harvest with clockwork controller imho

[cloud flax]

True, but those factories i believe are mostly used for like bursts of production especially when you constructing or something like that. But for normal goods chain, as a sustainable method I don't think it's viable constantly switching recipes

Like for constant supply basically

Esp in winter

Hmmm if berries can be grown why not grapes....I can see your point in gameplay fun though....

Also getting pine resin from a abyss factory just feel weird lol. Maybe the lore is of digging out those resin fossils? Like mosquito trapped in resin in Jurassic park movie?

Maybe GMO can be used to make mushrooms (good and bad ones) pine resin and mint?

Shift berries, grapes, brambles as well to clockwork?

Aah it's in chemistry lab. Nvm my commentry 🤐

[radiant arch]

scriptpack is updated - just can't verify it does anything since valve house is currently broken on experimental

hmm.. vanilla valves are broken too.. just reported the bug with them..

[shell fiber]

I could, but do I want to 😉 ?

[cloud flax]

You evil evil evil man :P

But I think would make clockworks much more useful early mid game as well as winters

[shell fiber]

Oh, also. After playing through the tutorial for real by myself, I feel that the factory itself is a bigger achievement than the floodgate dam, especially since we have the valve house 🤔

[cloud flax]

Cuz like short on sunflower, let me just shift the recipie. Oh rice farm die, shift the recipie

Edit: this is only for early mid game scenario

[shell fiber]

So maybe I could rebalance some things so that the factory requires a blueprint and the floodgate dam does not 🤔

[shell fiber]

Well I see the point of course, but a mechanical computer is not something you can reprogram that easily, for me it makes more sense to build one for each purpose, and leave them idle when they are not needed.

Also it makes you need to build a lot more, which means you need to invest in mega platform, in giant sequoias etc... that's basically the game loop

[cloud flax]

Flood gate dam unlock without a blueprint would certainly help with summers and bad tides.

Factory already requires an anvil which feels hard enough so not sure if it really needs a blue print... Maybe something else behind a blueprint

[wary panther]

Hmm. I think we have different definitions of "early". They take clockwork controllers (ENS), robot parts (factory), and glass. I just finally got two up and it's cycle 50

Or maybe I'm just bad ad this

[radiant arch]

not unusual tbh. depending on need it's 35-50 for me too

on big maps i sometimes skip them even. on small maps they kinda are needed to feed enough beavers for big industries, so they may come early

[wary panther]

Yeah, this is a small map of twisty narrow canyons

flat space watered space is at an extreme premium

so it's been a slow progression to get enough food to get enough population to advance

which is fine, I like tetris in my timerborn

but it definitely a slow-burn map

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3275582315

[cloud flax]

True... Maybe have some more different types of hydroponics
Crop types: (cabbage, peas, pumpkins)
Water crops: (rice, nenuphars, lotus)
Flowers & Shrubs: (sunflower seeds, bramble flowers, blue berries)
Logging, pine and chestnut can each be their own i guess.
My biggest worry is regarding winter sustainability. Maybe if winter feels too harsh then this idea can be looked up again

[radiant arch]

looks like a real challenge! (and big dam opportunities!)

[cloud flax]

That's a great map for damming!!!

[wary panther]

Yes and no - you could store a lot of water, but you'd lose all your farmland

[cloud flax]

I think I as well downloaded it but it did not use much of 3D terrain dynamics iirc (caves and all)

[radiant arch]

winter isn't as bad as it seems. tbh i might worry it may be a ltitle meek rather. and it's cycle 60+

[wary panther]

it has a lot of caves, and a major underground river. And some unstable cores that blow open the dam you painfully built 🙂

[cloud flax]

Oooh seems like I saw another map!!!

[wary panther]

it has been a really fun map though

and I may finally get to do some big damming now that I managed to get two drills in and actually have access to enough dirt to fill in the uneven corners

[cloud flax]

Looks like they updated it in Feb to have the 1.0 stuff. I was the same map :D

What are all those overhanging platforms for?

[wary panther]

warehouses

once I get some logs again

[cloud flax]

But heaven for gravity batteries and hell for farming, I can see

[wary panther]

they all face into a ladder up the spine

and then there are tunnels through the cliff into some natural/artificial shelves on the other side

I do really like the way the legs of the assembly line make it look like less of a crime against gravity than it actually is

[cloud flax]

The products coming out of the line thankfully get i to that storage, else.... Plop down the canyon

[wary panther]

Yeah, I liked that visually quite a lot

when it fit in it had to be done

(it is of course actually just loading from the door)

Aesthetically this map would benefit a lot from having the pillars from Knatte's staircase mod, but it's sadly not whitepaws-compatible

the 1/3 leg pillar supports would cit down on a lot of skewer platforms sticking out in weird angles just to support a spiral stair

Either that or a hanging spiral stair piece that worked like the double rope stairs (was supported from the top and bottom landings, rather than from directly below)

[ivory flicker]

How are the grav battery not synced up? The others are just built?

[wary panther]

yeah, the 5th new is newer than the original 4

[ivory flicker]

I also like the visual on that cliff, very well done

[wary panther]

was probably built 2/3 cycles ago, but there isn't very much surplus power over here so they mostly rise and fall with the season, rarely getting to top (or bottom)

[ivory flicker]

Imo that is more realistic, thats why they are there

[wary panther]

there's the two big wheels you can see, and then 3 more 3x2x3 ones buried under the floor (under the two drill gears and under the zipline station)

but we haven't hit top (or bottom) since the 5th one went in, so they haven't come into sync

Now that lapan got the power line bridges mod updated I may be able to interconnect it with the main power grid 3 canyons over

which would certainly help

[wary panther]

Darn, I can't put a separate ladder on top of the center of a pit-and-ladder lodge stack...

On the plus side, I just discovered the zipline station will connect to a ladder from underneath the door, which offers interesting new layout possibilities

Not sure how I had never noticed that this works

[wary panther]

I also really like the aesthetics of the middle canyon: the terraced restaraunt overhangs, the party deck on the artists's roof, the balloon landing over the mine, the lit bridge,etc (and this all leads back into a cavern that goes all the way through - it's full of storage, and leads to the early settlement, with the library/alchemist/etc along the cave entrance on that side

[wary panther]

Speaking of which grauschweif, I noticed you have a fairly lights decoration item, but it's locked as devmodetool. Is it broken or something?

[radiant arch]

it's incomplete / just a test. will try and make a better one at some point

[wary panther]

gotcha. I was just looking at things to block off the ends of overhangs and it seemed like a nice idea

[shell fiber]

In case you haven't noticed, the central line of the restaurant terrace is walkable, and I think it can carry a bridge too 🤔

[wary panther]

yes, I have that on the other side:

but here the bridge wants to run straight through and into the cave, not just to the "frontage road" across the terraces

[wary panther]

The rope stairs are a little buggy on load, though - timberborn seems to restore objects from bottom to top. So if the top is supported by something whose Z-level is higher than the base of the stair, like the tea terrace or a cliffside platform, then the staircase gets deleted on load.

(So 1+2 works, but 2+1 or 1+1+1 doesn't, because the stairs load at Z=1 and the platforms that would support the top aren't loaded yet.)

I think this is the same kind of bug bug with entity load order that was messing with Bobing's tubeway bridges: #1300977672037339188 message

And your mod also shows the same load order bug at the bottom of the map (i.e. if you build a primitive dam at z=0, and then a primitive dam upgrade on top of it, the upgrade will get deleted on load). But the same stack will work at Z>=1

Pretty sure there's nothing you can do about it unless @eMka (or someone else) decides to try and fix this more in the game. Which probably won't happen since the base factions don't have uneven bottoms (voxels that require support but aren't at the lowest level of the item)

to be clear, this is two separate bugs - the stairs not reloading happens at any z level if the top is sitting on some other structure rather than terrain.

[wary panther]

@shell fiber request/idea for the floodgate dam - the "hollow" corners currently stop at Z=2, so you can overhang a block of dirt over them (to seal a floodgate damn into a wall that rises above it when the dam is fully shut). But the those never-waterproof voxels still occupy corners and top, so you can't place a platform, only an overhanging dirt block can fill those corners and make a sealed face (even a skewer occupies "top" of the voxel below).

Which is kind of weird, since the other primitive dams will let you place platforms over the non-waterproof parts, or skewers overhanging them. It makes sense you can't use skewers on the mechanical floodgate since the middle part moves, but platforming makes structural sense. Or visually, the floodgate dam corners already have a big metal crossmember at height 2, so maybe they could be stackable already. But either way, it would be nice if you could support another waterproof building above those corners, instead of terrain blocks being the only option.

[radiant arch]

you could place a valve house below the dam for Z=0 support?

(no real solution, but might work in edge-cases)

[wary panther]

Yeah, but that's now limited to 0.3cms, so you can't use it to rapidly drain and flush badwater

A Large valve house would be another choice

[radiant arch]

or dirt blocks... -> can use the floodgate to guard a 2x1 channel

[wary panther]

As is "no, for balance reasons", of course. But you can do it with the mechanical floodgate and dirt, and it just seems kind of weird to be discouraging the use of inhabited sturctures

[radiant arch]

but that is later in game

or extra lodges

[wary panther]

yeah, that was my probably-too-wordy point, you can seal those corners with dirt (because it can overhang "for free"), but you can't place any kind of platform to support a building instead

[radiant arch]

i kinda use that often for underground channels, a 3x3x3 hole for the floodgate and 2-high-1-wide outlet

no need to seal corners (could, but not needed)

looks weird either way

[wary panther]

yeah, you don't need to seal the corners if the whole thing is underground and pressurized

only if you are going to leave one side open to the sky

[cloud flax]

I have done it in a way that there are like 3 different channels of 2X1 if you channel water properly on 3 sides

[shell fiber]

I see. So basically what you'd want is to directly integrate the floodgate into a wall of buildings, but for that it requires to be a bit more stackable 🤔

That's a good idea I think
edit : hmm... that would require reworking the model, i don't really want to get into that 😓

[shell fiber]

ah, thanks for poking at it 😊
if that setup works as a test be i'll see if i can improve it

[shell fiber]

ah-ah !

the new stairs survive !

(i changed the base Z-level to be on top, so they effectively are loaded after whatever supports the top part)

now let's see if the backward compatibility can do its magic or if it will just fail

welp...

[shell fiber]

i made it so you can insert skewer platforms at the second level, which will allow to place a watertight building on the 3rd layer 👍

[shell fiber]

i fixed that ungodly turd of a frame

[devout obsidian]

how do you build these skewer platform on lodges? i can't no matter how much i mouse around, they wont show up, or insist on being one level higher..and if i did, some were removed on load but maybe that was fixed

[shell fiber]

Can you take a screenshot of where your mouse is when it's at the wrong place ? 🤔

[devout obsidian]

managed to record it

[radiant arch]

that's a different platform than the one lapan showed

[devout obsidian]

oh it's in menu the one to the right?

[radiant arch]

i suspect the overhang would have more restricted placement, but not sure (not used it in a while)

overhang is more for attaching to dirtblocks

(did change a lot in the last year)

[shell fiber]

ah, right, the description is wrong, it only goes on cliffs, not buildings

the ones you want at the other ones

@radiant arch with today's update the sluice house flow rate is stuck at zero, with or without automation 🤔

[radiant arch]

yes, the experimental branch had broken this - for vanilla valves too

they not yet reacted to my bug notice. might have missed it 🙂

[shell fiber]

maybe ping them again because pushing a bugged version to stable is... not great 😓

so it has nothign to do with your script to remove the "infinite" outflow ?

[radiant arch]

did not on experimental, no

did debug output the values too and it showed that the valve did mess up the input after the ui patch

so my patch worked still, but broken valve script at some point forced it to close / 0

[radiant arch]

hmm.. was my own mod for real.. sorry!

[shell fiber]

oh 😅

well now my unity is broken

as with EVERY SINGLE UPDATE

[shell fiber]

@radiant arch so i just need for you to update the script ?

[radiant arch]

yes.. or disable the setting with..

will have it fixed later today

[radiant arch]

scriptpack update is out

[shell fiber]

hmm...it's no longer broken, but the unlimited mode is back, is that intended ?

[radiant arch]

latest 1.5.7 version? how?

not intended, no

it should not allow to set anything but up to max outflow limit. did not allow when i tested just now

[shell fiber]

what ?

oh, i think i have 1.5.5

ah, mh?

i refreshed on steam and now it says 1.5.7, let's test

yeah, when automated it can still go in unlimited mode (but not on manual)

is it something related to the two checkboxes in unity ?

[radiant arch]

i did not test automated again.. and i did change the part that got patched..

will have a look later

at least half of the feature works reliable again

[wary panther]

I didn't realize you could do that, cool! Will be nice to have that fixed and not have to rebuild 3 stairs every time I load...

[radiant arch]

is updated. might take a while for steam to verify

mod.io too

[shell fiber]

for now it still allows unlimited when automated

but at least it doesn't prevent playing

[wary panther]

Ok, so it no longer occupies top (allowing a skewer to overhang from something beside it) but still occupies corners (so you can't do a (double platform in the corner)? That seems fair given the shape of the frame...

but it will allow a lot more flexibility to use buildings instead of just dirt around a bottom-dump floodgate

[wary panther]

Does the Basic Nuclear Reactor stop the flow of the badwater source you build it on top of? Or just use it for coolant, etc?

Trying to figure out if I get +2500hp, or just 2500hp minus all the water-wheels currently running off that source that become useless... before I make a major investment

[livid zephyr]

can open or close the source when its made. cant remember if it works like the FT dome or IT discharge though... hopefully someone else knows

[wary panther]

cool. So it's either status quo + 2500hp, or even better than that (if I now get flow during drought)

Should be built and hooked in soon (I decided to just go for it and find out)

[livid zephyr]

leaning 80-20 FT version, but cant say with certainty

[wary panther]

next drought we'll see

[wary panther]

Having the extra 2500hp did finally get those batteries top-balanced, so the unveven row can quit bothering you.

[wary panther]

You were correct, it's Folktail-style cap (stops during drought)

[shell fiber]

hi all !
okay, other concern i have after pllaying the faction for myself : should the zipline tower upgrade really employ 4 haulers ? because as soon as i reminded myself of that, i quickly moved to replace all of my normal 10-haulers towers with zipline-carrying ones, as it seems clearly like a better deal.

maybe i should reduce to... idk, 2 haulers ?

[devout obsidian]

please, no

btw right now i'm looking on a balloon, there's a beaver flying it..but who is it? no building involved in it employs anyone

[shell fiber]

it's decorative

the building is actually autonomous

otherwise there would be some odd behaviors, like the balloon stopping in mid-air and the beaver teleporting from the ballon to the ground wheverver work time is finished

[devout obsidian]

oh i see they would need to get kinda stranded for it to work

[devout obsidian]

How to connect logging loft?

I suspect it's not supposed to go on two lumberjack's barns like that

[radiant arch]

door below and entrance must align

given the rotation of those below it can't work. would need both of them "flipped" (or facing same direction)

[shell fiber]

wait what ? how comes the ropemaker cost only 100 science ?

[devout obsidian]

normal flip wont do, the door still wont align, nreeds different building...sigh this is a headache is hould go touch some grass

[shell fiber]

give me one sec

[radiant arch]

either works

[shell fiber]

this is the correct configuration

[radiant arch]

needs stairs to get in reach to build the upgrade

[shell fiber]

eew the left one

in principle the flipped back configuration should not fit, but i cant be bothered rechecking the whole system to prevent it

[radiant arch]

visually it's kinda fitting

[devout obsidian]

waitwhat on the right one the doors are in wrong place and it still works? the loft entrance is where the flags are

Edit: OOhhh the entrance is now inside

[swift jungle]

hey guys im so confused on what mod am i actually missing or what is wrong here help will be highly appreciated !?

[radiant arch]

https://mod.io/g/timberborn/m/timber-commons#description

on steam too

[devout obsidian]

if using steam, unsubscribe and resubscribe to whitepaws will offer all the dependencies

[swift jungle]

thank youu it worked!

[devout obsidian]

apparently i MUST do everything the wrong way around...this needs other chirality

[shell fiber]

well you should be able to see the arrow of the entrance, is needs to be matching with the barns

OR

i could fix that mess

[radiant arch]

it's opposite of what i had. your entrance would be the back-wall again

[devout obsidian]

yep that what i mean by the chirality😆

i'm a chemistry fan, it reminds me to this lol

[shell fiber]

hmm... problem is that if i want the barn to remain flippable, that pretty much implies that you can end up with this kind of issue

[devout obsidian]

can you put in description "entrance must line up with or be inside the underlying building".. but that's prolly too long

actually there can be billboard for that, i can create the graphics?

[shell fiber]

isn't that good enought ?

[devout obsidian]

it doesn't show how the entrance lines up

[shell fiber]

hm...true

[shell fiber]

well i don't really have the time or artistic talent to make something nice, so if you want to give it a shot ...

i'm extending the use of the water wheel blueprint to both the medium and Large waterwheel

i'm still itching to make the factory the end goal of the mechanics branch tutorial, wether that is a blueprint building or not

and i still think that with the valve house freely buildable, the floodgate dam should not be blueprinted 🤔

[ivory flicker]

I think 4 haulers is too much, 2 would be better. Keep the inhabitants to worker ratio higher than 1

[devout obsidian]

because whitepaws can't work without others watching...and haulers do livestreams all day i guess 🤣

(now lapant adds "loneliness" happiness debuff and we'll be all cooked)

[ivory flicker]

Haulers are usually alone no? Unless u set a storage to empty or something

[radiant arch]

love this haha

well, sorry.. got distracted 🙂

[ivory flicker]

I thought that is what the username means

But magic

[shell fiber]

hmm... i don't even remotely have enough water for this drought 🤔
oopsie

[radiant arch]

would be nice to have this combined with the bilboard one?
like showing towers left, triangles right and maybe two tower upgrades in the back ? (zip-tower and one with side-way stairs to reach up?)

[devout obsidian]

Ok, will think about it. But the tower upgrades are written in the description and also outlined when placing, so that was easier to figure out.

[shell fiber]

(unrelated) i stopped the dead nenuphars from wiggling 🙂

[shell fiber]

oh, that is mildly unfortunate 🤔

[radiant arch]

makes sense kinda

to not be able to build a rope ladder from the bottom..

[shell fiber]

well if you put it like that 😅

[shell fiber]

i'm thinking i would like to have some sort of triangle-roof building, but one that does not require access to farmland or anthing outside of it.
obvious ideas would be building versions of tents, like a proper forge, not that crappy tent thing.

any suggestions ?
basically, this is for the cases where you'd (legitimately) want to have a small zipline tower in your town, and since it's here, well you may as well have a triangle shaped building next to it, then an upgrade.

it would also help in placing nerdy attics later 🤔

i guess a "forge" and a proper "gnawing hall" make enough sense, as well as a "canteen" (cooking tent) 🤔

[wary panther]

Well, the obvious ones that would fit in are storage - make a "barn" version of the crate storage house that is triangle-roofed, and a "tall tank" version of the liquid storage house (similar to the irrigation tower model) that is a small tower.

but that makes the upgrades much easier to tetris without useless buildings, so I figured not being so generous was on purpose

[shell fiber]

i think storage buildings would be my last pick in general, but that's an option that would work

[radiant arch]

a triangle roof smithy would look fun for sure. and make a tower within settlement easier

[wary panther]

Then we could have a heated storage upgrade that had to sit on top the smithy 😛

[radiant arch]

triangle mushroom grower could have a cellar ? (i.e. extend below ground)?

haha, nice!

kinda difficult to come up with ideas when early game is so balanced and grown used to it..

[wary panther]

Because the "hand of tar" has always seemed kind of icky

[shell fiber]

my dam is slowly growing up and up

[radiant arch]

looking really nice and cozy

just wonder how they are going to harvest brambles in front

[cloud flax]

A fancy hauling and builders house? They can be placed anywhere in colony. (Industrial buildings might not fit in residential areas?)

Or it could be a fun building that gives same boost as nerdy attic? It's hard to provide that boost to all beavers in large colony

Or create a tail detailer building finally :P

Cooking houses already have a very nice variety and pacing i feel

[shell fiber]

True

[shell fiber]

I tried to look into that, if I make the detailer also apply a negative buff, they won't touch it

Which doesn't mean I can't make a detailer, just that it wouldn't be fun

[shell fiber]

I think having the triangle towns building would make it much easier to place upgrades so I don't think that's the best option

[cloud flax]

So plan on removing the log gnawing station for gnawing hall and primitive iron works for foundry?

Tbh they fit in the vibe along with paper mill and small tents, mushroom grower. all early game village structures

[shell fiber]

Oh no I won't remove them

You'll just have the option if building a proper house-workplace later

I'll likely make it science -locked like 50~75 science

Just so that you don't want to waste science on this early on, but later it's a non-issue

[cloud flax]

Interesting.... So a late game version of early game building....
Gnawing hall might be used in place of rudimentary sawmill as well I guess esp in power starved maps

But it might remove the need for rudimentary saw mill?

[shell fiber]

Now what stick in my mind would be :

• forge
• gnawing hall
• canteed
• liquid storage house redesign?
• mini hauler / builder tower ?

[abstract vector]

Sawmill has less workers, but uses power and is more efficient

[radiant arch]

i barely ever use any but the 2x2x1 hauler and the 3x3x2 version. later basically only towers

not sure i would use a small tower version of them

hmm.. maybe.. there's sometimes a tower i not use but for the upgrade..

[abstract vector]

I only end up using them when I need dam filler houses

[radiant arch]

yeah, i did too, but there's so many new options for those now. including handicrafter, extra architects and seamtresses

tower haulers also just run faster haha

[heavy lodge]

hmm, zipline tower upgrade with haulers in fact is ... a conveyer belt 🤔 🤣

[shell fiber]

To be honest the best candidate for a small tower would likely be the seamstress 🤔
Maybe make the "tower"into something that looks like a loom

https://share.google/tDRaawvaEolX0adys

Kind of something like that 🤔

Oh God, that is a terrible loom 😬

I went to a couple of wool and silk museums recently, and ngl those machines are pretty cool 😊

But this one in the picture looks like it has nearly zero mechanism

[radiant arch]

mine is even more primitive. and a pain to set up haha

not sure this one is AI generated though

[cloud flax]

My sister apparently has like 5 weaving machines at her place.....
Maybe i should call her house the seamstress lodge...

[cloud flax]

Maybe make
Handicrafter to be the triangular building then so they can get paired often 👀

[shell fiber]

That would explain a lot 🤣

[shell fiber]

The handicrafter is pretty important as a stackable watertight building, I wouldn't want to change it, and I don't see much benefit into making a triangle roof duplicate 🤔

[cloud flax]

But yeah, hope there are couple of triangle roof buildings that can be placed in main built-up. Cuz both zipline and seamstress towers could be used as towers but there might not be enough traingle roof buildings

Or you can make hospitals with triangle roof!! They are same footprint as the haulers lodge currently

[devout obsidian]

What about small tea room? They can make that soda from bramble flowers without having to unlock whole tea lodge.

[ivory flicker]

If i recall the soda is locked to the tea lodge to force u to build it for the ens

[ivory flicker]

What about one of those book exchange hut things (irl) , and make it so beavers go there for their comic books

Can also make that into a well being thing they visit

Altho i guess that makes it similar to the salt burning thingy

[devout obsidian]

I wrote cafe at first but they don't have that. Maybe if they traded the beans from ironteeth but that's complicated.

[wary panther]

Hmm, got a bunch of brambles deleted on load. It looks like rappelling ropes now block them (via Floor occupation).

guess that's fine, but I don't know what the intent was

[radiant heart]

was there an update like today or something? game keeps on crashing ? 🙁

if i remove the mod everything is fine tho

who dare break ma beavers

[wary panther]

There was an update, but I'm not seeing any crashes (on stable, not experimental)

[radiant heart]

i'm on stable iirc

let me double check

yup, i'm on normal too, not exp

and got no "!" on the mod load screen

well, no beaverridoos for today, here's the crash log, it's a foreighn language to me, can't understand where the crash is comming from

[wary panther]

looks like your version of https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3283831040 is not up to date for the game update last week

[radiant heart]

ty, i'll try that later a bit

[wary panther]

Bug report: looks like the Florist got a new recipe, but it's showing the icon for Nenuphar, and that seems to be what it makes, but the text says Bramble Flower

[radiant heart]

ty ❤️ now it works, gonna be able to get to my little favorite pink eyesore tommorow!

[shell fiber]

problem is that comic books are a once-a-lifetime consummable, having building that just dispense the need would make it build-and-forget

for now the forge looks like this, but i can do better, i think

[radiant arch]

historic forges around here usually had the furnance front / outdoors and some roofed aread there for working on horses.
i think that gives them more of a workplace impression too?
would this collide less with the upgrades and the chimney?

(there's less simplified ones than this, but this should give a rough idea)

maybe a storage area for coals like the little appendix of the lumberjack would fit the place too?
having it small like the farmhouse feels odd given there's 3 homes too?

[shell fiber]

Yes, ideally I would do that, but the building also effectively unfloodable so I can't have the furnace outside 🤔

[radiant arch]

oh.. right.. haha

so chimney would work underwater?

[devout obsidian]

might need chimney extender 🤣

[shell fiber]

i'm only wondering if those triangle tarms are really necessary 🤔

hmm... probably better without

[shell fiber]

the chemney stand 3m tall, so you'd really need to want to flood it 😅

the ironworks now smokes black when actual work is ongoing

hmm... looks kind of pink

hmm

this one works just fine

[shell fiber]

better

and all good there

hmm...

hmm... i missed that part

[radiant arch]

that's looking fun and unique and certainly not like a fire hazard!

[shell fiber]

also looks nice on its own

[shell fiber]

surely my beavers thought about that 🤐

just realised that the greenwood texture was broken

[devout obsidian]

that's why it goes underwater

[radiant heart]

then use purple wood? 🤣

[radiant heart]

rules from the fire department are suggestions, but go against at your own risk

[shell fiber]

gnawing hall is a more simpler design

i took the opportunity to make is do more than just gnaw on logs 🙂

[devout obsidian]

there should be some teeth marks when looking closer😆

"whitepaws would never!!!!!11111"

[radiant arch]

this would allow to support two upgrades? given its length?

i'd really like that tbh

[shell fiber]

no, the front is slanted

that would be an interesting concept though

i'm also remaking some icons

also organising my stuff a little better

my typical oranisation in my libreoffice file :

but i'm trying to put some order in that mess :

[shell fiber]

hmm... maybe there could be a little bit more lighting on the roof 🤔

anyway, that will be enough for today

[livid zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/its-not-pink-its-a-lightish-red-donut-red-vs-blue-gif-21715773

[twin coral]

😏 pink was historically seen as the "little brother" of red, a masculine color in times before the 1950s

[shell fiber]

Tomorrow I'll model the seamstress and we should be good for an update 😊

[ivory flicker]

Yea im aware of that, just throwing ideas

[wary panther]

Another idea for a small tower - a climbing wall (well-being : Fun bonus, it could unlock for the rappelling ropes?

[wary panther]

Though I don't know if it's possible for grauschweif's separate mod to participate in the "tower + triangle-roof" stacking check, I don't know how that's implemented.

it should probably also have a significant chance for injury

[radiant heart]

It's fine, the phoenix has awaken :

@shell fiber think there is a mix up in the textures of the balloons, the IT one if WB pink and white 😛

[radiant heart]

I would like to file an official complaint to start a petition to bring back giant tanks, ty for your time !

[radiant heart]

irrigation tower?

[wary panther]

You will have to settle for gigargantual tanks

[radiant heart]

i'll settle if the gargantual are built like the giant ones, the esthetics on those was SOOOO cool, can we cut the pie in half there? 😝

[radiant arch]

dam.. i not tested irrigation towers with my last update.. could be i broke that last night..

yep, my bad.. 🙏
will have a fix out for irrigation towers in next few hours

[radiant heart]

#blamelapan

it's pink, it's lapan's fault

[radiant heart]

don't stress about it, i've been lapan's guineapig quite some time, that's just a minor inconvinient, think it took me 3 droughts to realize

[shell fiber]

How ?

[radiant arch]

timber commons reject to enable its patch when there's another patch overriding the method..

just testing my fix

slipped my mind to actually test the effect when it not crashed

[radiant arch]

fix is out, both on steam and mod.io (may take a little to show)

sorry again for this! 🙏

[wary panther]

hmm, looks like you can no longer run a path along the giant log bridge? It still visually shows the tunnel through the pillar, but you can't seem to place a path that connects through it...

Though it now has a power line along the bottom, which is neat

if a little less useful because you seemingly can only connect from the ends or above, so using it would block the path even if paths worked in the first place.

Also, the chunk on the left is complaining "It is to far from a district and cannot be reached, even though the path to reach it is... right there at the left edge

bedtime now though, sorry to post and run.

[shell fiber]

no worries

i'll look into it

in the meantime :

meeeeeeeeh

much better... i think 🤔

not my best work by any means

[radiant arch]

tower alternative or replacing?

[shell fiber]

it would replace the old seamstress. (the old one gets devlocked)

[radiant arch]

can understand it visually.. yet my gap-filler..

(narrow hauler lodge is more sensible for those tbh, just it's cheaper population-wise to use seamstress in many cases)

[cloud flax]

It really was a nice 3x1 filler

[shell fiber]

well, we'll see how satisfied i am with this model 😉

acctually a sideway model might be better🤔

eeeh, i'm pretty happy with that 🤔

[radiant arch]

adds pretty unique style to the village

[shell fiber]

i see nothing obviously wrong with it 🤔

[radiant arch]

side-entrance through the smithy would be fun too

but i see this work better with farmer etc

[cloud flax]

Maybe some props like hanging clothes or spools or something. Adds some more flavour. Also a hole in the roof for threads to go in?

But yeah it does look much better:D

[shell fiber]

ah, hmm... a sideway door would cause...some issues

side door wouldn't go with the farmer either 😓

[shell fiber]

there is colored spools etc 🙂

i made them slip into the building using the metal seams 🤔

not sure that makes sense more than to me

(that was a PITA to vertex pain btw 😅)

[devout obsidian]

she could have a nice rug at doorstep

Oh nevermind the triangle building is not part of seamstress

[shell fiber]

eh, the door could be on the other side

that makes it quite shitty as a rural building, but i'm perfectly fine with that 😊

[cloud flax]

It might get confusing on how to use it as an upgrade, cuz all other buildings require them to face in the same direction...

[shell fiber]

could get the tower to connect properly

[shell fiber]

everything seems to be working

this one does not

okay, this one works now

the last one is of course not possible

and this all work too

[stiff coyote]

@shell fiber Im legit curious
You putting water beavers faction into the mod competition?

Cause its such a cool mod but I also know it relies heavily on other mods

[radiant arch]

only newly made mods sadly - as in never published anywhere before

[stiff coyote]

Ah I missed that in the rules conditions @.@

[shell fiber]

what competition ?

[stiff coyote]

#📢announcements
#🔥contest-rules

They just announced not to long ago but its fresh new mods

[shell fiber]

oh, hmm... that seems like a tough job for me, although....

https://clan.fastly.steamstatic.com/images//36026812/f91148d6b3e3d0a954552df5b234d324cf56d650.jpg

that is quite a motivation 😊

[stiff coyote]

If you do drop another faction or a simplified water beavers for the contest; id be down to play it!

[shell fiber]

hmm... i need to ask them if that would qualify 🤔
I think i am far better now than ever before at modding, but making an entirely new faction in one month seems tough

if a 'whitepaws lite' faction is acceptable, that is a lot easier

[radiant arch]

it can use other mods, like materials or scripts. it just has to add something unique

[stiff coyote]

Thanks Grausch for clarifying.

Thats why I missed it. Added after the fact lolz.

[shell fiber]

if i were to make up a new faction, could you help me a little bit ? the first thing i would like to check, is how hard it is to make the game start with bots instead of adults, and possibly adults instead of kits (but starting with bots and kits is acceptable)

[radiant arch]

hmm. i could. would pause seasons for it though. so not before next week to push some fixes to particles

if there's no beavers the game would consider the settlement dead i wonder

so why not reverse bot and beaver? just disable kits, have 'adults' be bots?

or do you plan to have bots make beavers later?

might also mess up the worker-selection (as in force-show the option to select beaver workers always?)

so what i need to do:

• set "bot-worker" to default for all workplaces
• patch the spawner to spawn bots instead of beavers
• see if it tells player settlement is lost upon creation -> if so try and fix or surpress that
• some bug-testing..

would easily take a week and some if problems occur i wonder

would you want a mix of beavers and bots or just bots for the start? (not sure i misunderstood it first as "no-beavers")

hmm.. locking at the code it might not be difficult in itself. just slow to test

game has a _startingBeaverInitializer.Initialize(valueOrDefault, gameMode.StartingAdults, gameMode.AdultAgeProgress, gameMode.StartingChildren, gameMode.ChildAgeProgress);
so it either reads from difficulty or faction and i can do with it whatever it needs (i.e. spawn bots too)

[heavy lodge]

and, what will do with what every factions deal at the start, the thirst threat ? Or, you will make badwater source spilling fuel during normal seasons 😮

[radiant arch]

i only make weird things possible, i not have any responsibility what lapan does with them 🙂

[shell fiber]

i wanted the robots to use bio beavers as slaves 😅

[shell fiber]

can do i think

[shell fiber]

i think just spawning bots at start i enough, even if it's in addition to bio beavers

there's gotta be a line somewhere saying "start with 6 adults and 3 kits"

no ?

[radiant arch]

i just tries and i can easily patch the logic i guess

config gives a fixed range for adults and for kits, so could use that or can spawn additional or anything really

can also add a spec for you to tell what

[shell fiber]

buildings have a setting in which we can specify if it's a beaver workplace, bot workplace, or both

[shell fiber]

that would help with not overwriting other factions 🙂

[radiant arch]

absolute must have i fear!

[shell fiber]

i'm going to ditch the roof entrance for the hauler and builder towers

visually it was already awkward with some buildings, but with the forge and gnawing hall, that looks outright bad

plus since the gnawing hall is symmetrical / rotatable, that can cause weird things, like bridges going straight through the roof

anyway, i don't think anyone will regret that dysfunctionnality

and i'll be pushing an update for good measure

regarding the contest, i send a message to Miami to ask how much asset reuse would still qualify as "new", in case i go with a "whitepaws lite" option

[shell fiber]

uploaded !

[radiant arch]

ok.. there is one tiny stupid problem with it..

bots can't spawn indoors it seems..

so will need some time to figure that part out first (anything else works fine - can change number of kits and adults and bots per spec, as in give 2x kits, 0x adults, 1x bots and it uses difficulty settings as base

just the bots not appear since they spawn in unsupported spot my bad.. i mixed up two numbers and blocked the spawning myself haha

[radiant heart]

Hooo colored ropes !

[wary panther]

If the new seamstress lodge can be flippable and still work with the upgrade stackings, could the farmhouse/harvester's cottage, ect be too? Or is there some other reason they are not flippable?

their "triangle roof" part seems pretty symmetrical, and it would be nice to be able to choose whether the entrances are together or apart, espescially when using the "two triangle-roof" upgrades

Seems like the new gnawing hall works either way too!

Extra bonus points if it could be possible to use them facing opposite directions (e.g. harvester facing north, farmhouse facing south, nerdy attic or logging loft or whatever spanning across them). The inherent "handedness" of the upgrades has frustrated me many times in trying to make the perfect canyon tetris 😛

[shell fiber]

basically it only works because the 3D models themselves are symmetrical, if i extended that to all of them, then the upgrades would not match visually

[twin coral]

Be very careful with that barrel my little friend
it makes boom-booms if you drop it 😏

[livid zephyr]

ok that might be a funny death to add to the mod. sm % they drop a barrel moving it and a small explosion happens, no dirt removed or anything, just a boom.

"so-and-so was careless and dropped their barrel of Nitro and exploded themselves to death."

[shell fiber]

unfortunately, this would need to be entirely scripted, the base game has no provisions for that 😓

[shell fiber]

also, is everythign going okay with the new buildings ? no missing text / texture glitch etc ?

oh right, i forgot to update the texture pack for the green wood

[livid zephyr]

oh well, funny idea at leasst 😛

[radiant arch]

technically.. if one gave any character a tickable component.. and tested if they carried a good.. and a list of good ids with effects and chances.. that might not be super difficult to make.

might even make a fancy mod for the competition

just not sure it's any real fun

[shell fiber]

hmm... probably not. generally random negative events are not good game design. they can be funny at first, but this kind of stuff quickly would irritate people.

or you'd have to code in that the first occurence has 1% chance, then the second 1 per 10.000, then 1 per 1 million to make sure it is funny a couple of time then happen extremely rarely

ah, i wanted to playtest more today, but alas ! my work required being done.
poor me 😅

[livid zephyr]

boooo, responsibilities, booo! hah

[devout obsidian]

I think this is not right? There's nothing under the skewer.

[radiant arch]

wont make the save&load i fear

or not sure.. it oddly might work like extending dirtblocks there

[devout obsidian]

And any idea pls? Why the rope stairs can't be placed.

[radiant arch]

yeah, it overlaps

needs on more platform for that

like vanilla bridges they can't overlap the landing

[shell fiber]

Yes, might work, but it's ugly

[shell fiber]

Unfortunately 😞

[radiant arch]

given the z-base now anchors it to the top - does it even have to occupy the bottom still?

could it now just ask for a 'stackable-below' and not occupy? or that not works?

(i know before that did not work)

[wary panther]

Fair enough. It just looked (without comparing super-close) like the Farmer/Tapper/Gather roofs were also pretty much left/right symmetrical. The doors on the front of course aren't (which is where flipping would be nice),but those aren't on the gnawing hall either. The Farmer's dormer placement isn't, but thuse end up buried inside the upgrade. So it at least casually looked plausible, and I wanted to ask in case the answer was just that it used to not work, but the new buildings were showing that it now could.

[shell fiber]

That would work, but that would let the building being completed without the bottom support being build 🤔

[shell fiber]

iirc the back side of the farm is not at the same place as the front with a 180° rotation, so that makes the upgrade look bad.
Of course if I were to redesign the buildings I could make it work. But that's a lot of work for little benefit.

It's really a "if I had known better" kind of situation, but I, in fact, didn't know better 😅

[devout obsidian]

nerdy buildings need nerdy attic 🫣

[radiant arch]

floor heating and the smell of hot tar? haha

[devout obsidian]

perhaps having longer versions of the stairs 🥺

[shell fiber]

That seems terrifying but that's an option 🤔

[devout obsidian]

How is this supposed to get together?

[radiant arch]

one level higher. sometimes it slips down on weird mouse angle

or is it? not sure.. arrow fits, so not that..

oh, the seamstress is supposed to be rotated??

[devout obsidian]

Thanks! There is a mysterious incident tho, no idea where it is stuck.

[radiant arch]

stuck beavers on ziplines again.. oh.. wait.. the entrance is different from other towers?

maybe that's problem?

[devout obsidian]

the zipline is not built yet, it seems stuck in the harvester's cottage

oh my bad it's "nothing to do in range" icon 🤦‍♂️

[devout obsidian]

Was thinking it is a joke...but no it is actual material

the plot of human extinction thickens...

[devout obsidian]

Bamboos don't make offshoots by themselves?

Nothing is happening here

[radiant arch]

few version back they had same chance as berries

so about 1-2 per 30 days would be likely

[devout obsidian]

hi it's me again sorry..why this won't connect?

[radiant arch]

visually you skip one rotation?

(there's that tiny tiny arrow on the bottom that indicates third connection)

hmm.. or not? hard to see..

[devout obsidian]

dont think so, when i press r 4 times it is in the original orientation

and notice when not connected to anything it's X not T, thats weird too

seems the corner piece lying on the forge is bugged, neither adaptive nor universal shafts will connect to it

[radiant arch]

yeah, that seems more likely than the t-shaft being the problem here

odd though

since you have the vertical t-shaft - would that work here?

replacing the downward shaft / moving everything on tile down-left?

[devout obsidian]

no this refuses to connect too

[radiant arch]

in the image the orientation is off, but good to know it's not just the one tile that's broken

[devout obsidian]

i tried all orientations ofc

have to completely avoid the forge

planning to flood the backside, hope the forge wont mind🤞

[radiant arch]

i believe only part of the forge is waterproof. though i wonder if it still would stop working given the 1.0 changes 🤔

[devout obsidian]

oh dam there's a leak actually..back to drawing board

[devout obsidian]

The chimney base is not waterproof, sadly.

[shell fiber]

i think it should, that's weird

i'll look into it

[devout obsidian]

The entrance building too.

[shell fiber]

The entrance part is not supposed to be watertight

Although I could make it so 🤔

[radiant arch]

it does look kinda solid?

[shell fiber]

It has angled walls like an ironteeth dormitory thing

But now that I think about it, it would be more useful and make more sense for the front to be watertight too

Although... I kind of want to redesign the whole building now. Make it something more like the advanced sawmill, so it can be used as a dam better 🤔

But that may have to wait until the end of the contest 🤔

[devout obsidian]

Or you can remove the "some parts work as levee" for now. There's hot iron (or coke?) exposed to air in the middle anyway . Such a thing would cause huge explosion in contact with water.

[devout obsidian]

Fighting with every building...this requires ground placement?

[livid zephyr]

The bit in the water needs at least 1 tile lower than the right part, and the left part needs to be submerged

Might just be you need to get rid of those 3 tiles of dirt

[devout obsidian]

doubt it, this works, only 1 tile down

[devout obsidian]

So after I built it elsewhere and saw how it works, problem was the raised power shaft....

[livid zephyr]

Ah. Was hard to tell. Was taking a shot at least

Got ya pointed in the right direction at least

[brave ivy]

I want one

[stone pond]

now that you've figured it out, enjoy the fun of watching the beaver washing machine in all its glory. 😉

[livid zephyr]

still highly memorable JC video moment on yt lol

[devout obsidian]

How to harvest bananas? They are ripe, marked for cutting, lumberjack barn next to the greenhouse, they ignore it.

[radiant arch]

they need to be in reach of both the lumberjack and the tree nursery. might need to mark them anew if you planted before greenhouse was completed (maybe)

always been a little troublesome those..

[devout obsidian]

they can't be planted before greenhouse. i tried

also sequoias are at 95%, another painful unwieldy building i guess

[devout obsidian]

what's the JC video? i might check it up for inspiration, knowhow

[livid zephyr]

wanna say it was his u7 WB run...gonna take a hot minute to find the exact vid he implimented the washing station

nvm u5... know it was on Lemon Canyon map

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czzacHu27Ms&list=PLBK6qQd9E1Gq0nqpJQoZaeIiId58Qh9yr&index=21

seems promising

[devout obsidian]

Found his video with bananas, he had no problem, it seems it was ordinary lumberjack flag that harvested them. Le sigh.

[radiant arch]

all lumberjacks can

it's just sometimes it can't for whatever reason

usually works when rebuilding it, when both lumberjack and tree nursery are in range

[livid zephyr]

most consistent way ive had with bananas, fully construct the greenhouse first, then plant

[heavy lodge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryBmXf4n0dI&list=PLBK6qQd9E1Gq0nqpJQoZaeIiId58Qh9yr&t=2170s Guess this worth to be pinned , it's such a funny moment 🤣

[devout obsidian]

The bananas were fixed by saving and reloading. Now the sequoia feller. At first it went fine, got 2 logs... but then nothing. Sits at home all day. The capacity of feller is 5, plus I built a storage too.

Probably ADHD 😆

Can the sequoia storage be anywhere? The logs seem to be a bit too big for a hauler to carry.

[radiant arch]

there been a bug with it selecting a unfellable tree due to problems with overlapping occupation

[devout obsidian]

lol, adhd really

[radiant arch]

one of the trees might have a problem with that

would be good to know which so lapan can resolve this case too

did you plant under them? paths? buildings?

[devout obsidian]

Yes put berries under

Did not dare to try buildings

[radiant arch]

you could not put them on the tile with the flag - or on the middle tile with the tree per chance?

[shell fiber]

actually if we think about it, it's probably the same issue as my upgraded fences 🤔 for the greenhouse panes to be solid i need it to occupy the bottom, but it's also needed for cutting them.
actually the fact that it works at all is weird

[devout obsidian]

I found I can plant stuff only after the sequoias were planted. So I assumed that is impossible. There's nothing growing right under the flags as far as I can see.

[devout obsidian]

Demolished some berries, it now works. Clearly the feller used them as excuse to play petanque.

[radiant arch]

yeah, there's some bug still with an occupation overlap that blocks the cutting of a choosen tree

you wouldn't know which tile it was that caused the problem?

[devout obsidian]

haulers take forever to empty it, never noticed such tardiness before with any resource...might have to resort to (censored) to experiment

(yes I DID prioritize it)

They have no problem felling these. Despite the grapevines.

[shell fiber]

This system is a bit odd but seems tu mostly work fine

[radiant heart]

this supposed to work from under?

[cloud flax]

Yep... Atleast I have always used them like that

[radiant heart]

idk, since the down shaft doesn't light up...

[ivory fractal]

The last time I tried it (about 1-2 months ago) it didn't work. I had to connect the shaft from the side, then it worked.

[devout obsidian]

iirc i tried that too, no cigar

[lucid flame]

I'm having some issues finding a map to play that has brambles at the start. Is this a "glitch" that they aren't included or not all maps support brambles?

[radiant arch]

brambles replace regular birch, so they should be on many maps, but not garantueed sadly

florist can make them at a slow rate to work around some till tree nursery can plant them..

putting the kimchi maker right next to the library and setting library to hauler-priority can help keep usage low too

[lucid flame]

Sadly, the birch tress are birch trees on every maps I've selected sadly.

[radiant arch]

when playing whitepaws?

would you happen to have another mod that changes plants?

[lucid flame]

Yes, whitepaws. I pulled up a save game and it's fine, started a new game with the same map and the birch are not brambles. I'm going ot work through my mods list and see which one is causing this. Thanks for your help! I don't have a plant changing mod.

[lucid flame]

It's a mod, only playing with the needed mods and everything works.

[livid zephyr]

Was gonna be my suggestion after, gotta kinda vet additional mods 1 by 1 with WP. It doesn't like to play nice, to you, or other mods 😋

[lucid flame]

That's the painful part, going through them one by one. Decided to play with just mods that are known for playing nice with WP.

[livid zephyr]

yup, wb its best to start from scratch and rebuild from ground 0 for mods added in

[shell fiber]

Do you have anything in the "greedy-something" series ?

[spring heath]

Hello, I haven’t been around in a while so pretty behind on both this chat and the updates! I’m about to start a new save and found that Goods Tracing, which worked for U7, is now causing a crash. Would be awesome if that could be remade compatible at some point but I’m aware you’re a busy guy and might need input from the GT creator, whose name escapes me 😅

[radiant arch]

just a drop of log messages from current version:

No localization for Good.OmniCure.DisplayName
No localization for Good.OmniCure.PluralDisplayName
No localization for Need.Rocket.DeathMessage
No localization for Lapantouflemagic.SevereInjury.DeathMessage
No localization for Good.Coal.DisplayName
No localization for Good.Coal.PluralDisplayName
No localization for Good.Grapes.PluralDisplayName
No localization for Good.Sensor.DisplayName
No localization for Good.Sensor.PluralDisplayName
Good group Logs has no goods
Good group Special has no goods
Good group Plan has no goods

(playing non-whitepaws faction here, so i guess that's what the last three are from?)

[shell fiber]

No sensors is an item I was planning to introduce but eventually did not introduce. Or do I thought 😅

[shell fiber]

I don't even know what this mod does, sorry.
My best answer is to remove it

[spring heath]

yeah game loads if I untick it, the mod adds two tabs to the settlement panel showing production and use of each good, helpful for checking where tf all those sunflower seeds are going and whether you did in fact unpause the medium mine for coal and not the small one, without trekking up and down the map looking at individual buildings :)

[sleek grove]

Wanted to..report this I guess? I keep having to force kill beavers that get stuck pathing in to the pass through lodge, and i guess the normal lodge? Mainly the passthrough lodge

[shell fiber]

okay, that is weird

[shell fiber]

do you have any mod that could affect the beavers's behavior ? it's a bif difficult to figure out what's happenning here 🤔

[sleek grove]

I could get a list...somehow. I actually came here to post another issue

the platforms with scaffolding dont allow building connection. If thats supposed to be that way then nevermind 🙂

[sleek grove]

interior view of the passthrough if it helps

I love the faction. I just chose the absolute worst custom map to ever try them out for the first time. Wanted to say thank you! I still don't understand like half of it, but it's fun to learn and figure things out

[sleek grove]

the scaffolding does allow connection to the mine though

[livid zephyr]

just a nice view from some terraces 🙂

[devout obsidian]

welcome to the worst map club haha

[shell fiber]

sorry for the slow response (i'm really rushing for the mod contest)
can you confirm that the building under the water pump entrance is a regular platform ? does that still happens without the "replatform" mod ? (btw i would assume this mod duplicates scaffolding items, so maybe not the best thing to use

[shell fiber]

because...why not ?

😊

[livid zephyr]

wonder why my primitive dam upgrade threw an error and got demolished when loading here?

[shell fiber]

i see nothing wrong with the placement 🤔

does that happen every time ?

[livid zephyr]

only time ive loaded since it was placed

[shell fiber]

wait the fill valve had a low output ? damn if i had known that earlier 😓

[livid zephyr]

Tried a few different things. Kept doing it.

Removed pines, tried different houses to block, still did it.

[shell fiber]

ngl that is the first time this happened as far as i know

can you try to build one dam and its upgrade in a different location see if that still happens ?

or do you have any weird mod enabled ?

[livid zephyr]

Got a few extra mods. Mostly just decorative stuff. Have a couple other dam upgrades and floodgate ones spread around and all those act fine

Will look into more later

[radiant heart]

Here is my weekly rant about we needing a liquid tank in between the medium and gargantuesk one, ty for listening 🤣

[radiant heart]

Oooo skating ring incoming?

[shell fiber]

build a dam, you bad beaver 😅

[shell fiber]

i'm making another faction for the modding contest

did some good progress today

[radiant heart]

can i dam in sunflower oil, juice, sake,... ect? i don'T see them on the fuild dump 😛 Like would it be possible to tell the giant burried tanks to store anything but water?

[radiant heart]

i'm guessing it's the polar beavers?

[shell fiber]

not possible unfortunately

[shell fiber]

yeah, i mashed several ideas together, you can follow it there #1493841518530658314

[radiant heart]

cool guess i know what i'm doing when my current WB run is done. tbh tho, that tank thing is to a point of me not beeing as inclined to pop open the game as often, i feel like i'm on hard mode just spamming tanks all over the place just not for water 😅

[wary panther]

Is at at the very lowest level of the map?

If so, I reported that at #1070709592176197642 message, and I've also seen it with the emberpelts tubeway bridge: #1300977672037339188 message

But I think it's a base-game corner case related to the changes #🤖mod-creators message (but not fixed by whatever was done for the rest)

[livid zephyr]

Yes

[sleek grove]

dude dont you worry about it. These are just here for reporting. I dont expect solutions. I wish you well on your contest entry! I will think about your suggestion on replatform if it comes up again. To answer your question though, yes they were all platforms. I just used the houses afterwards. Good luck on your entry!

[livid zephyr]

Interesting that only having issues with that dam upgrade. All the sources are on bottom layer. Though I gotta dig stuff out to play with more stuff on that map. But the few aquifer pumps are playing nice so far at least.

I'll just dev fix it each load for now

[shell fiber]

What's the issue with the gargantuan tank ? Too big ? Too much population ?

[shell fiber]

I see, sorry I had missed it. Maybe there's something I can do about it 🤔

[shell fiber]

Well I still intend to maintain the mod for the foreseeable future, so this kind of bug is on my to do list

[radiant heart]

both

like the storage goes from 250 to 80k, something like that, an in between would make sense i think

( and of course the wisual of the burried tank is just so cool

[livid zephyr]

so what to research next, trade w/ polar, ENS, Tree Nursery, or maybe industrial kitchen?

or maybe a couple more automation things. memory and resource counters seem like a nice add at this time too

have weather, depth, and contamination sensors already for those

[livid zephyr]

and just gonna avoid the dam upgrade issue by replacing it w/ some house to be there instead

[cloud flax]

Tree nursery... ENS is not particularly useful before nursery I believe

Need grapes for ENS research iirc

[livid zephyr]

you are correct

kinda figured ENS was a leap, but its not too far off either

Nursery unlocked. time to root out all the wild brambles here

[radiant heart]

amateur 🤣

[livid zephyr]

lumberjacks on lumberjacks

[radiant heart]

lumberception

[livid zephyr]

😛

better?

dont think i should ever have a bramble problem ever again

[livid zephyr]

hmm....

[shell fiber]

On top of a paper mill ... Well that will be easy to check.
There's an of chance that can be done weird data loss but I don't think so. I'll look into it later today

[livid zephyr]

worked after putting on some platforms overhanging the paper mill and turning the door to face right vs how it is in teh pic

just did not wanna work fully over the mill at all

[devout obsidian]

Can trade with Leafcoats, 50 grapes for 30 fasteners. But beavers often eat them before ENS🤦‍♂️

[radiant arch]

priority and short distance can help a little with it

same with kimchi early..

[devout obsidian]

Valve lodge should have 0.30 flow limit in the description now that's unavoidable. To make sure everyone knows the creators hate all compact means of flow regulation. Trying to divert badwater is always a hair pulling exercise.

[livid zephyr]

that would be nice. threw me off from the last time i ran them for sure

[radiant heart]

long ago there was an issue like that where doors would not connect when from rooftops, don't fear, our overlord lapan found the solution 😛

[livid zephyr]

watched them get stranded, then died before i could even do anything. problem solved haha

[livid zephyr]

time for the fun of getting to my underground ruins...

only myself to blame... i made the map, i choose to play WB on said creation... still kicking myself lmao

[cloud flax]

Looks well filled!

[livid zephyr]

125x125 size only. it'll happen haha

but lots of different stuff all over for sure. and i purposefully put basically all of it down at the bottom of the map so it would be out of the way. not so much an issue with the regular factions... gonna be a little more involved here, which is par for the course i suppose

but goes to show how long ive been putting this off... have 4 monuments already... 6 gold bars used

[sullen cape]

Tank spam 4 life 🤣 😂

[livid zephyr]

here's a cruel idea for those who want more tank storage. add a tank storage for the mines haha

[devout obsidian]

wdym

[livid zephyr]

some ppl have been wanting some sort of bigger tank to store more water in. would be funny to accommodate them with a tank that takes up 1 of the mines few and precious slots

[devout obsidian]

what mine has slots? or you mean abyss? but for abyss there is a storage iirc (not playing rn)

but what about combining large mine and lido and water dump... 3 in 1 combo 🤣

[livid zephyr]

i keep knocking off the elderly... lol

[livid zephyr]

i have questions.... mostly how?!?... i wasnt doing anything anywhere near here for quite some time and noticed i had a stranded beaver, only for them to be here of all places...

[radiant arch]

what a sad place to end at..

[shell fiber]

you have quite some talent to find new bugs i must say, unless it's been happening a lot and no one reported it. 🤔

as usual for those, hard to tell what's happening

[livid zephyr]

yeah i got nothing for ya there. like i said, was working of stuff half the map away and noticed the stranded beaver notification. thinking i got a silly beaver stuck behind something, clicked on it to see where, and it brought me over there

[livid zephyr]

I at least started to go to college for game design back in the day. So at least reporting things as they happen just kinda stuck.

Better to report then than later so you're relying less of memory

[shell fiber]

@woeful sun did you have some sort of script that pulled all of the missing lockeys ? i'm pressing forward like a maniac and didn't write down more than a couple, and i'll have some trouble finding them all now 😭

(for my other faction)

[woeful sun]

Yes, timbertrees adds "untranslated" (to a best effort translation) when it can't find a lockey

[shell fiber]

could i ask you to exctract the whole list in a couple of days ?

[woeful sun]

You can ask, but you should be able to run the script yourself too. It's written in Python and available on my GitHub.

[shell fiber]

i'll try 🤔
not entirely sure how that should work

[woeful sun]

It's at https://github.com/normanr/timbertrees/

[woeful sun]

Whitepaws 6.3.4 seems to be missing translations for:

• Coal good display name
• Grapes good display name
• BOTDistrictCrossing
• WashingMashine billboard
• Trade with the Emberpelts, Coal recipe is still called Insect Larvae

[shell fiber]

uploading a prototype for the FrostyWhiskers faction 🙂

although i should make a new thread 🤔

#1504959881822601416

here we go

[livid zephyr]

Fro s y

[storm gulch]

You knew I was back from vacation and hungry for another beaver series

You absolute legend

But I'll give you the courtesy of the option to ask me not to make videos/streams on this if you don't think it's ready for that yet

[shell fiber]

Oh I don't think it's ready yet unfortunately🤔
There's still a couple of things missing and balance is really untested.

I still have 5-6 days to polish it, so I think you can have a go at it once the deadline for the contest is over 🤔

But of course you can have fun crash testing it 😉

[storm gulch]

I'll hold off for a bit then

But I definitely want to give it a shot

[devout obsidian]

These 2 path pieces get removed as illegal when I load a save.

[shell fiber]

Only those two ? That's weird 🤔

[devout obsidian]

Yes

[shell fiber]

Can you share the list of your other mods ? The ones that are not dependencies 🤔

[devout obsidian]

I disabled everything else, still an error.

[shell fiber]

Are you on stable or experimental 🤔

But tbh I won't be able to fix anything until June 10 more or less

Unless it's critical

[devout obsidian]

On stable. It's not critical just have to reconnect the path on every load.

[wary panther]

is this the bottom of the map? what's the artist lodge built on top of, terrain or some other building?

[devout obsidian]

it's on hauler lodge, and that is 1 level above bottom

[shell fiber]

i have no idea what's happening to be honest

[livid zephyr]

sounds kinda like my dam issue a week or 2 ago

[shell fiber]

I've released a more payable version on mod.io and steam

Feel free to hack at it, please tell me if something is broken or really awkward

Oh right, can someone pull a list of all the missing text entries ? That would be a huge help 🙂
(Sorry I couldn't figure out how python works, I nearly knows what it is)

[devout obsidian]

No idea why they can't access the area on the left. Scavenged other area before without issues.

EDIT: Reload fixed that

[devout obsidian]

Also I still have this on startup, despite reinstall and updates. On Steam.

[shell fiber]

ah, you can disregard this one

you can either use houseoptimize or commute balancer

[scarlet pelican]

@shell fiber With all the mods you've already made, how did you manage to make another one for the contest?!

[woeful sun]

I've pushed an update for timbertrees for Whitepaws 6.3.4

[shell fiber]

Well really i'm only taking good care if this one, the others are pretty low maintenance and I paused it all for one month 😅

[nova crescent]

did you found out which mod was creating this issue? I am also having the same issue.

[nova crescent]

It's configurable tubeway & zipline that is causing the issue.
Issue: birch not getting replaced with bramble.
Oaks not getting replaced with everblossom.

This was not happening 1 month back.
Will report to @ionic swift thread.

[radiant arch]

got a report that water sources like the abyss reactor or aquifer might ignore ModdableWeathers badtides.
current 1.5.19 update of my scriptpack should fix that.

please let me know if there's more issues with that

[rare ferry]

Odd question here, but is anyone else getting a slight stutter every few seconds on the whitepaws recently? Its not a FPS drop, just an actual game stutter like its recalculating something.

[radiant arch]

only had that with the commute optimising mod. but not played whitepaws in the last 4 weeks sadly

[rare ferry]

Well it did say that was a required mod now when I booted up my whitepaw colony. I had to add that in. Maybe that is whats causing it.

[radiant arch]

possible. depending on colony size. it's optional, but can be difficult to play without. can use either Commute Balancer or Housing Optimize which do it slightly differently and with different impact on performance

though, thinking about it, it might have become less required with ziplines available early on 🤔

[rare ferry]

Is it optional? I had a crash on game load when I tried to load the game without it, but I think I also had a corrupted texture pack at first as well. Maybe Ill go back and check it.

[radiant arch]

either of them is fully optional, yes

[cloud flax]

Ooooh another waterbeaver episode coming in hopefully soon it seems :D