spoiler-chat

[subtle crown]

But yeah, back to bluva. It being this super secret thing that we only offhandedly hear of its existence thanks to a sociallite seeing it in one of the uber rich peoples house.

And the subsequent "well why didn't the grineer do X, Y or Z in the millenia since the collapse"

[supple dagger]

The Queens would never let regular Grineer use Kuva

[subtle crown]

Exactly, regular. Why not their most loyal generals and leaders?

[supple dagger]

Cause they don't care about them like that either

[subtle crown]

True.

[cunning copper]

It does seem odd Worm only uses it on grineer we failed to completely kill, just so she can send them after us again

[subtle crown]

I know voice actors are expensive. But kuva being used on them but not someone like Tyl Regor seems like a massive logical oversight.

[wicked iron]

They didn't start large scale collection of Kuva until after our battle with Tyl.

Heck, it didn't even really start until after the Elder Queen was killed.

[cunning copper]

We know it can be used on a corpse though

The cephalin fragments point that out

Maybe that is a detail the twins didn't know about

[opal rapids]

Presumably the fact that the larvling survived us helps make it worth kuva-ing

[subtle crown]

They literally use it on kuvaling corpses.

[opal rapids]

Well, "survived" being a lil. Badly prhased

[cunning copper]

According to the liches own dialogue, they didn't quite die

But they were damn close to it

[subtle crown]

The queen is very much a corpse but she is still being revived if they can get enough.

[cyan crest]

And the orokin Ordis killed were revived if Balls is to be trusted

[subtle crown]

Honestly, with the sheer mastery of kuva that Ballas showed I would not doubt for a second his opinions on the matter.

Remember that Ballas kuva mirrors had no black splotches and almost shimmered with how fluid it was.

[cyan crest]

Mmm, Unum kuva

delicious

[subtle crown]

If the grineer kuva is simply too impure it would explain a lot of things.

Would also explain bluva. Just some generic kuva that had either been dyed or processed enough to take on a blue hue.

Like decorative coloured glass.

[cyan crest]

But it's certainly different, requiring crimson kuva to seal the deal, when crimson kuva alone already did that permanently
It's weird, why introduce a new variant of kuva with different properties only for a children's fairy tale?

[subtle crown]

Think of Snow White and her absolutely perfect apple.

[cyan crest]

which is definitely not real, it's an exaggeration
so uhm
are you saying bluva isn't real?

because that might be it

[subtle crown]

I'm saying that might be the case. An exaggeration.

[cyan crest]

That makes sense

[subtle crown]

Many apple orchards in Germany are along the south and west borders of the country. Places that didn't always belong to Germany. Snow White having an absolutely perfect apple, procured by royalty, who then sleeps in a glass coffin.

It makes for a nice fairy tale.

Though kuva being an orokin fairytale in the first place is at odds with how incredibly closely they guarded the mere knowledge of its existence.

[cyan crest]

Yeah, but I doubt the Naberus story is more than a tale
The Ostrons these orokin used as costumes were just too heavily hurt to even breath

I seriously doubt these guys could stay alive

[subtle crown]

Just not using enough kuva.

Force them to stay alive.

It's the Orokin way™️

[cyan crest]

one of them has their heart dangling

[subtle crown]

k u v a

Horrors beyond belief brought to life.

[craggy drum]

Didn’t Ballas stop Ordan Karris from dying via blood loss but giving him Kuva?

So they could have done the same to their “costumes” and keep them alive so they can use them.

[swift pond]

Only the Orokin could have a cozy campfire story about mutilation and body horror

[subtle crown]

"This one time, at band camp"

[craggy drum]

I mean, Naberus to the Orokin was a way to mock death as they were “immortal” so long as they took their magic space kool aid

So making “costumes” by putting them into a state where they should be dead, but keeping them alive by force seems very on brand for Orokin revellers thinking they were sooo funny by doing it

[wicked iron]

Orokin were capable of some extreme things with the level of technology at their disposal. Keeping people alive in those states probably wasn't an issue.

[cyan crest]

Literally man-made horrors beyond my comprehension

[subtle crown]

Then Man in the Wall is an eldrich horror who will hopefully stay beyond our comprehension.

[cyan crest]

If kuva was the realspace equivalent to void energy as I want to think it is, I would really like a Kuva equivalent to Wally
Blood for the blood God, I guess

[subtle crown]

Sweet baby jesus yes.

[cyan crest]

At least then there's a semi-reasonable way to fight Wally

[subtle crown]

Sadly they’re 2 very different concepts.

Kuva reacts the same way to the void that most non-Tenno do. Death.

[cyan crest]

yeah...
but still, if one end of the stick has a God, the other extreme end of the stick could potentially have a god

[cyan crest]

I mean, yes, but Kuva is the only time when the void has gone out of its way to create a relic just because it was being used

[subtle crown]

Zariman angels just might be more literal than we know.

[cyan crest]

Servants of the Void God?

Therefore, literal angels?

[subtle crown]

While I’m not sure the devs would treat it as a heaven/hell equivalent, the potential is still there.

All the "unlife" of the kuva.

People already love going full on doom slayer already. People can only sploosh so much.

[cyan crest]

what

[subtle crown]

The aesthetic of Warframe and Doom already somewhat line up. With the void getting its own clearly defined blue/silver otherworldly aesthetic then if kuva were to get an equivalent "hell" aesthetic it would not be too dissimilar to the kuva fortress.

[cyan crest]

Oh
I guess that makes sense
Makes sense that we are devils then if we have fallen out of heaven ;)

[subtle crown]

Would also explain why the angels are enemies.

[wicked iron]

We were devils to Ballas because we had unfathomable powers and he could not control us.

[craggy drum]

Also as much as the Orokin used the Void/Void powered things for things like travel via the Rails, they still feared it as an insane hellscape they’d only ever be able to kind of harness but never fully control or understand.

And normally nothing ever comes back when lost in the void, so these random, now Void Powered kids would be seen as something unnatural and unpredictable.

[subtle crown]

To the point the void was kind of a dumping ground for infested void towers. The void spat them back out of course but the effort was put in.

[supple dagger]

The towers weren't dumped there, they got infested because they left the void

[cyan crest]

Which doesn't make much sense seeing how the Veil's temple is both in the void and infested

[cyan crest]

Yeah I was kind of trying to follow the parallelism not being completely serious

[arctic oar]

Found that they added a new dialogue for The Man In The Wall after the fight with Umbra in The Sacrifice.

"Hey....I killed Issac"

[zenith jacinth]

Not new

[cyan crest]

And no, he doesn't say that, you say that, he is just pleased that you say that

Also, Isaah

Also yeah that has been there since the Sacrifice dropped, as hunter said

[trim tree]

Just thought right after finishing new war. Why isn’t there a profit taker level boss mission for the sentients? It was the last chance to do it since the sentients are “peaceful” now

[zenith jacinth]

Eeeeh, wouldn't say that

[wicked pike]

Having replayed the new war hunhow kind of implies his alliance with the Tenno is highly temporary. Plus I really don't think Erra is dead. Maybe a bit sunburnt and smelling like a burnt chicken nuggie, but not dead.

[subtle crown]

Yeah, no body = no death. Plus he has survived death before.

[swift pond]

Yep, the alliance was more that Lotus/Natah was more important to both sides than their squabble. Now that's been dealt with, it's back to passive-aggressively glaring at each other.

Doesn't seem like Hunhow is gonna do much, at least for now. The focus is on Void and he can't exactly do anything there.

[real niche]

Of course the alliance was temporary, can't exactly take over the Tenno without the Tenno existing

[supple dagger]

Unless they bring him in as surprise villain for another frame quest, Hunhow is back to scheming

[swift pond]

Hopefully he'll cook up a secondary weapon next time so I can have a full Sentient set without buying Limbo Deluxe and his Pokemon card collection.

[olive rapids]

I want to see an amalgam deluxe skin

Ideally for Xaku

[pliant warren]

Ngl, that would work with the dragon warframe concept I talked about in gameplay discussion the other day

[wide bobcat]

So at the end of New War, what do you guys think Mr. Man-in-the-Wall's requiem poem is talking about?

[subtle crown]

Most interpretations put it as a summary of what happened in the quest.

[wide bobcat]

that would make a lot of sense now that I think about it! I was puzzling over it the other day and couldn't quite figure it out

[subtle crown]

Back in the old spoilers chat we had a super nicely formatted copy pasta.

[wide bobcat]

aw I wanna see it 😩

I really hope we can talk to him or something in this upcoming quest

I have a bone to pick with that nerd

[subtle crown]

Oull, Ris, Xata, Vome, Khra, Lokh.
OULL: Through endless faces, Countless forms a multitude unfolds.
RIS: In Luminous space blackened stars They gaze, accuse, deny
XATA: Its herald are the stars it fells The sky and Earth aflame
VOME: To cosmics madness laws submit Through stalwart mind entreat
KHRA: To cosmic forms from tangent planes We end as we began
LOHK: From brooding gulfs are we beheld By that which bears no name

It was something like that.

[amber terrace]

I started doing Narmer bounties in an effort to scan Narmer enemies, but then it got to collecting the archon weapon blueprints just to have them, which then led to me saying screw it and building them. I can’t wait to play with these for a short while or at least until I get bored of them and go back to using Scindo(I know Scindo isn’t the 100/10 optimal super melee one shot level cap steel path tank demolishers but I like Hildryn’s deluxe skin so I’m gonna use Scindo for the Blodgard skin because the holster for other heavy blades is bugged since Blodgard uses heavy melee[hammers, axes, and the like] holster options, whereas Galatine and Gram use heavy blade holster options and the two don’t really coincide)

[little dragon]

Nah he definitely sentient fried chicken after what happened

[slim anvil]

idk id rather not have any characters with eyes in this game engine

they all look like taxidermy

[sharp spoke]

Lel

[cyan crest]

I like how Marge looks, but just as skin, not as her full identity

[west cypress]

So, have we gotten a close-up shot of the Thrax Centurion?

[craggy drum]

Been messing around with male Drifter faces to try for more younger looking mixes

[real niche]

A. We've known her more as Lotus than we have Natah
2. Ugly

Which doesn't change either points I made

Yes, compensating using a fake Lotus, not anyone else

[past kiln]

It was ordis pretending to be her

[cyan crest]

And Lotus isn't only a played character, it's one of the voices, it's one perfectly valid personality she might want to choose
She was Lotus for centuries, it's normal that personality would take over the rest
Same with Natah, really
I have no idea why anyone chose Margulis tho

[past kiln]

I do wish we could let Ordis be mission control though

[real niche]

The voice Ordis had during the first part of the Drifter sequence was cool as hell

Would kill to have that as my mission control

[past kiln]

He already takes over for some missions on Jupiter, shouldn’t be hard to have him as it everywhere else

[real niche]

New line recordings ‼️

And arent the differences between Margulis Lotus and Natah just slight voice changers since they pull fron the same lines?

I'd pay good money to hear act 2 Ordis say "Leave no one standing"

[cyan crest]

Only the appearance and voice filter changes, yes

It is tied to the skin, not the name

[real niche]

Are there different filters for Eido Lotus?

[cyan crest]

She sounds more distorted iirc

The devs, probably

[swift pond]

Them's looking like a weirdly handsome Grineer.

Handsome by Grineer standards anyways.

[torpid lantern]

Definitely the eye color contributing to that

[craggy drum]

Oh lol the eye colour was the only thing I kept from my usual Drifter/Operator look

[west cypress]

I’m just scared of Natah because she makes direct eye contact with us and I am afraid of that

Give her sunglasses or smth

[torpid lantern]

oooh like the matrix xD

I wonder if she'll have a role in AoZ

[subtle crown]

Wait, the devs released stats of who picked what?

For Natah/Lotus/the incorrect one?

[torpid lantern]

They show global Stats for TNW along with personal stats. I think mine are a bit goofy though. For WF it stuck Nezha on mine but I never played with Nezha other than to level him. I'm surprised not to see some of my other favorites that I use a lot. Maybe it was just covering 2021? I didn't play much this past year.

http://wrfr.me/9year

[subtle crown]

Thank you.

[torpid lantern]

Any ideas why Nezha is on my list when I just used him for MR leveling, not for playing? I was expecting Yareli or even Valkyr. Kinda confused. Hmm I probably even use Nekros more when I'm farming for resources
It seems kill-based but that still confuses me

[subtle crown]

Time to try and find where it is.

Something definitely seems messed up.

These are mine.

[torpid lantern]

Those numbers on Octavia are so high!!!

Suddenly i have the urge to delete mine xD

[subtle crown]

Octavia is my go to for when I want to relax XD

[torpid lantern]

But it does seem to be missing stuff, at least for me

hmm

[craggy drum]

Yeah… Valk Prime makes sense as she’s my main… but why are Mesa Prime and Harrow on there? I only levelled Harrow to max, then fed him to helminth lol

[torpid lantern]

same with Nezha for me

I dont even think I played base Titania this year but maybe I did accidentally..

[craggy drum]

And it can’t just be the highest kills overall cos I mained regular Valk until I got the prime.

[subtle crown]

Can you tell I leveled him to 30 in hydron then never touched him again?

[craggy drum]

Same

Fed him to Helminth once he was levelled and I grabbed the Prex card from Drifters Camp

[torpid lantern]

Right! I played Valk until I got Titania. Maybe it's strictly just 2021 stats?

Mine is a depressing 0 and 0 for Cal

[subtle crown]

It is for me. Only 8k ducats earnt.

[craggy drum]

Must be.

Looking at my profile, my Valk Prime has 87,180 kills

[subtle crown]

LOL, I love that they list these.

[craggy drum]

That’s probably why everyone is so confused because the last anniversary stat thing did lifetime stats.

But this one is just for the last year

[subtle crown]

Because gunnery 10 is 2 negatives, 0 positives and no way to disable it.

[torpid lantern]

Can you explain? I'm 7 across the board so I'm curious

[subtle crown]

Railjack intrinsics. I went hard farming them up and maxing out my RJ early on.

I had gunnery 10 back before the reset and will never voluntarily get it again.

It's an auto aim feature that takes away my control so if I'm not using a hitscan weapon I can't lead my shots. It feels horrible to use.

[real niche]

And heats your weapons faster

[subtle crown]

Then because it's auto-aim it needs a downside so you build up heat faster. But the heat is negated by gunnery 9.

[torpid lantern]

Okay so

should I stop at 8 for gunnery when I get there? That sounds pretty gross xD

[subtle crown]

Gunnery 9 is super useful.

[torpid lantern]

okay 9 it is!

[subtle crown]

If you overheat just hit "reload" and all your heat goes away.

[torpid lantern]

so as long as I don't do 10 on guns, I'll be good. Thank you!

[subtle crown]

Do you play with a kb+m or controller?

I've seen a bunch of posts by people who play on controller having no issue with gunnery 10 as it's fairly similar to controller aim assist anyway.

[torpid lantern]

Right now Kb+m. I just bought a controller to use but the sensitivity is super weird

[subtle crown]

I'm a kb+m person and go full on "stop taking away my control"

Oh, also for gunnery 9. Go into your railjack key bindings and check that reload is keybound properly.

[zenith inlet]

I’ve never seen this before, where would I look..?

To see those stats

[subtle crown]

Click this link, make sure you're logged into warframe.com and then scroll to the bottom.

[zenith inlet]

Ah

[weak harness]

Meanwhile, we got my new frame, Mesa for some reason, and my ex frame.

[fleet veldt]

I had a thought: since Angels of the Zariman is bringing a 2h heavy scythe, what if DE was to use this as a segue to bring the Kaszas Archscythe down from space to ground combat?

[olive rapids]

I've been championing it for a while now

But...turns out the kaszas is actually not that big

[olive rapids]

It's the size of your frame roughly

So...I'm doubtful it will happen for a long time unless we flood the forums

[wicked iron]

The arch melees would look whacky to use on the ground, honestly.

[olive rapids]

Veritux not really

Its just a space buster sword

[wicked iron]

The size of it would be like the Dominion skin on the one weapon that makes it ginormous.

Larger even, probably.

[olive rapids]

Meanwhile Kaszas is actually about the same size as a frame

Maybe let us actually reflect bullets back properly

[red pine]

Yes

[swift pond]

Hol up
MR26 in 367 hours? Man, I've been dragging my feet.

[cyan crest]

I have just a bit less than that and I'm 11

[craggy drum]

I think it’s only showing stats for the past year…

Seeing as in my profile in game I have about 1500 hours played but the anniversary thing says 226 hours and I’m MR30 (only hit MR30 in the last year because I finally got around to levelling stuff, was stuck at 28 for a while before that)

[swift pond]

Not surprised, but kinda dissapointed Saryn is at the top.
Glad my boi Pyrana Prime made the cut.

[cyan crest]

I really should farm mastery

[twilit geode]

Is there a new yearly stats thing they just put out again?

Nevermind, I'm blind.
Clearly warframe usage on this stats sheet is only based on kills made, not missions-run/time-used, which is what I would ACTUALLY consider usage. Saryn I only pulled out periodically to level stuff in ESO.
Realistically, the top three would be more like... Nekros Prime, Nidus Prime, and... Either Excal Prime or Loki Prime. Maybe Vauban Prime.

[subtle crown]

Yeah, that looks to be "ability kills" with X frame.

My stats are like this which does line up with 2021 and how I mostly played.

[cyan crest]

That warframe usage seems oddly familiar

[subtle crown]

It's like "Ok, I have more kills on a single frame than some of you have combined... I know I'm a no lifer but geez"

[versed cedar]

i dont feel like i used the tplasmor that much

[rugged spruce]

Halikar Wraith now that's a chad's weapon

[proven sinew]

how can we see these stats?

[craggy drum]

https://www.warframe.com/anniversary

Just make sure you’re logged in, then scroll down

[proven sinew]

hooo thxx

[cyan crest]

Did my message get deleted?

[icy ore]

In the new war part of the stats, what’s supposed to go there

Because I finished it but I have nothing there

[cunning copper]

Your sentient/narmer kills, caliban kills/time played and global choice percentages for TNW decisions

[icy ore]

Oh… I see… that’s neat

[scarlet basalt]

Is Lotus/natah/margulis can control perghasa like a ship post-new war ?
Like,it would be so funny to see her driving like a car the ship against everyone

[pliant warren]

It’s like a barely played during the year

[errant charm]

Titania Prime is my top too despite being Rhino main. My only guess is the Pixia Primes count as frame kills vs being tagged as pistols.

[random garden]

So my PC one bugged for this lol I'd say I did pretty well in 11 hours to get mr 10

[subtle crown]

Pixia are ability kills.

[heavy obsidian]

Looks like someone is waiting for their Khora Prime

[obtuse rune]

Curious if it displays Nekros Prime due to him being my main frame or if it's just a coincidence.

[swift pond]

It's coincidence

Barely remember the laat time I used Bone Daddy Prime.

[obtuse rune]

That's a shame. I appreciated the feature last year with the most played frames.

[subtle crown]

It seemingly changes. Mine was not Nekros yesterday but currently is.

Unless I'm going senile.

[supple dagger]

all right real question though... who here realized Teshin died while playing TNW and not after when you see he's a hologram? 😄

didnt he get his head pierced by erra

i pretty much believed it in that moment, though was expecting that he'd survive and have some more content

[zenith jacinth]

Brain stabby

[shell yacht]

Did I really use caliban that much.

[swift pond]

I was surprised too, didn't feel like 10h.

[craggy drum]

Was just messing around with my Op and Drifter…

And it looks like the Operators Judicial Coils and it’s positioning have been put on Drifter as well as the Drifters positioning of it… so it’s been duped on Drifter and doesn’t show on my Operator at all lol

Stays like that even when leaving the chair

[subtle crown]

Maybe it counted afk time?

[zenith jacinth]

Them overlappin numbers lookin good

[vale helm]

im surprised that the most picked personality was margulis, i assumed it was the lotus

[vital owl]

I'm one of the tenno that never trusted Lotus since I started playing this game. I went with Margulis myself, though Suculotus is also a skin I bought.

[torpid lantern]

I knew most people would pick Margulis because of either how she looks or just cuz a lot of people really hate Lotus and wanted to get rid of her. Which is fair. She's super sneaky. She even lied again immediately after being rescued. It's a very bad habit

[past kiln]

She is literally a walking talking lie in the first place

Or was intended to be, impersonating margulis

[vital owl]

Honestly, her mind is so broken that the lies are parts of her truth

[subtle crown]

Hooray over a millennium of brainwashing that even when the helmet was removed and she reverted near instantly the corruption still lingered.

[flat shadow]

makes sense. Trauma sticks. Some trauma you never get over.

[subtle crown]

What I'm curious about is why Margulis stuck around.

[vital owl]

She's pretty much a computer with to many programs running at this point

[subtle crown]

Ballas knew Natah wasn't Margulis and that she was already dead. He watched her get liquified.

[vital owl]

Ballas didn't care, he wanted what he wanted and was willing to take a substitute

[supple dagger]

And also went into another round of being controlled

[icy marlin]

Who is the person that says hey kiddo and looks like me that just randomly is on my ship

[wild copper]

the man in the wall

[icy marlin]

Like the one that harrow talked about in the chains of harrow

[wild copper]

yes

[icy marlin]

Ok

[zenith jacinth]

He's cool

Maybe

[shell yacht]

Tbh I had to pause and look up choices. When I found out the skin you had to pay for eventually I was like nope. And I liked the name

But after seeing her on the skin she was not as good looking so I switched.

Use the eidolon lotus. Looks beautiful when she speaks doing missions.

Literally Margulis is the same basic lotus skin without a helmet which I didn't realize. I wonder how natah look though via comms

[simple python]

I did finally get Margulis. She now cosplays... Cortana.

[opal rapids]

I just wanted space mom back

[wicked iron]

You can find out if you buy the Natah appearance for plat. 😄

I mostly use Radiant Lotus, but I cycle between them all.

They're all too good not to use!

[craggy drum]

I didn’t buy all of them.. nope! Not me!

[opal rapids]

Radiant Lotus gets rid of boob window 👍

[shell yacht]

You funny. I will buy if it's worth looking at

My next buy would be rad lotus then natah last since I cant find an answer lol. But then again why I need two helmet versions

[wicked iron]

Answer? To what, exactly? Sorry, I think I missed the question.

[craggy drum]

Just do what I did and buy all of them so you have options. Try them all out and then just stick to Radiant Lotus because you missed non holo Space Mom but want something a little newer.

[shell yacht]

I hate that we don't have full body statues or views of our customize lady

[wicked iron]

Ahh, gotcha.

[shell yacht]

Not really a question just was hoping for a screenshot or detail explanation. Maybe someone have it somewhere I'll search google

Found it

[wicked iron]

That's from the easter egg stuff before New War.

Basically how she looks as Natah in missions, though.

Coloration and lighting is different, though.

[shell yacht]

Yeah my eidolon lotus the best. But I'll support de when I get a discount cause i have nothing else to buy with them

[wicked iron]

Eidolon Lotus is really cool, yeah. 😄

[craggy drum]

It’s not ideal because of the marker in the way and it’s probably compressed to Hek and back

[shell yacht]

Ty so basically its just a face?

[craggy drum]

It’s just like the other transmissions. Just a different model

[shell yacht]

Yeah but I'm telling you that eid lotus aint just a face its in its on category

I'll play a mission and I show you my baby

[wicked iron]

Changing her look also changes her voice. Each one has its own unique filter on the voice (minus Radiant and regular Lotus, which sound the same as the transmissions we're all used to).

[craggy drum]

I have all of them and it’s quite literally just a model swap. EidoLotus just has a bit more going on around the face of her model

[wicked iron]

Not just a model swap. Voice filter changes, too. They added that after The New War update, though. I think in Echoes, or some time thereabouts.

[craggy drum]

And yeah the voices are all different. Margulis has no filters, Lotus and Radiant Lotus sound like OG Lotus, Natah has a little more of a robotic filter and EidoLotus is a lot more robotic than that

[craggy drum]

Yeah it was with Echoes

Before that they all sounded like OG Lotus

[shell yacht]

Just built different

[shell yacht]

What makes her that more interesting imo

[shell yacht]

Never even noticed.

[shell yacht]

Is it always that dark into the void around her head or just dependent on the colors

[craggy drum]

Could just be the colours? It’s set to the default ones in that pic

[subtle crown]

The “slightly out of tune radio” filter for Eidolotus is cool.

[torpid lantern]

This appearance scares me a little

[errant charm]

maybe my mind is just making connections that dont belong but the first A in the warframe logo kinda looks like the symbol for Earth(but without the little circle above it) from Stargate.

[gentle urchin]

guys have put the cross save pk before I was playing from ps4 and I want to pass the data on the pc you can do????

[zenith jacinth]

No

[primal condor]

I'm fr scared about the void dash changes, I think its unnecessary and for eidolon hunters like me it will slow us down I think. We will have to see when the changes come but I'm not optimistic

[sharp spoke]

I think it still looks quite speedy, and being able to choose your own distance traveled is something I've been wanting for awhile, personally.

[shell yacht]

April 8th is the next dev stream so hopefully we get a better glimpse

[primal condor]

Void Dash feels clean as is, in my opinion feel like they're re-inventing the wheel when there really isnt a issue with it

[supple dagger]

Eh, Void Dash is solid, but controlling how far you dash is very much a good thing for every tileset beyond open worlds.

It's far too easy and often to spend a chunk of you dash crashing into a wall or other physical evirons

[primal condor]

Yea I agree that the new dash will favor closed tile sets much more then the open world tiles

But again with practice you can finesse the current dash very easily in closed tiles

[subtle crown]

That's what they're trying to fix. The "you can finesse it to make it useable".

No doubt fans will raise a stink and we will eventually get a toggle that starts the distance at maximum so it behaves similar to current.

I'm more interested how they're going to do the void powers. I'm hoping it will be the 3 abilities like we see in new war act 1.

I've basically made peace with the devs killing solo operator steel path build, if it means I have an easier time getting zenurik energy bubble with a high ping host then I'm between ambivalent and fine.

[errant charm]

I think the gains of controlled distance dash will far out weigh the potential negatives.

at least for the average player

[subtle crown]

Yeah, it's such a key part of the game now the more user friendly they can make it the better.

[errant charm]

I mean I admit I only use it for the energy regen field

So I can see what they are doing, they want to promote people actually using operator mode

[subtle crown]

It's still a great movement tool.

Void Dash is changing to be a more controlled movement tool and ‘less spammy’. We are generally inspired by the change from Coptering to Bullet Jumping. Not that the current Void Dash is an unintended movement, but redoing it to better fit our combat is the goal.

Void Dash: this is now a telegraphed movement tool with more interdirectionality and pivoting potential to better traverse the game’s tiles and combat spaces. Chained-forward traversal is still a valid option, but it has been redesigned.

[errant charm]

of course at least on Jupiter tilesets my favorite movement tool these days is just use Titania and just be Descent II all over again but with a warframe.

[torpid lantern]

I like how seamless it'll be so I can just dash across the gas cities and stuff

[primal condor]

I just hope I can still proc virtuos shadow with ease on eidolons wit the new dash

[errant charm]

I just know I am happy TNW gave a loaner moneysword so I didnt have to hunt Eidolons, After what ive heard on forums about the toxicity of PUGing those.

[subtle crown]

Why would you be able to use a dash to proc a gun arcane?

[robust wren]

well, its not all people. there are alot of bad eggs

[robust wren]

its amp arcane

[primal condor]

When you dash eidolons head its triggers the amp arcane as a headshot

[subtle crown]

Yes, why should a dash work to trigger an amp?

[robust wren]

because its just "on headshot"

void dash does damage

[primal condor]

^

[robust wren]

when you dash and hit head, it triggers

[subtle crown]

Dash =/= amp. It's very clearly a bug not shared by other arcanes.

[robust wren]

...

[primal condor]

LMFAO

[robust wren]

you can say that about alot of stuff

[subtle crown]

Yes, it currently works. Depending on the code of the new dash don't be too surprised if it no longer functions.

[primal condor]

Great way to kill eidolon hunts

Sick

[subtle crown]

They're already killing operator only steel path.

[robust wren]

the only reason proccing shadow easily is a problem is bec amps arent consisent without it

also DE really doesnt care much about open world endgame

[primal condor]

They should when it's the primary source of arcanes

Which are extremely valuable

[robust wren]

Exactly

stuff like consequence also works w/ ability interactions

alot of stuff can headshot, kill, proc status, the game is very lenient on certain conditionals

[gritty pike]

Also it doesn't specify that the headshot needs to be by the amp in operator form

[subtle crown]

Looking at the stream either Uniaru has a custom "no knockback" dash or it's been removed completely. The energy restore on hitting an enemy still looks to work at least.

[torpid lantern]

don't forget that was a wip! so we'll probably get more accurate info next friday

[subtle crown]

Either way it looks a lot better for 99% of the game.

[short sun]

Customizable ordis when

[swift pond]

Ordis sentinel skin when

You gave us Loid, give us best dad

[wicked iron]

Это сервер только на английском языке. Приносим извинения за неудобства! 🙂

This is an English-only server. Sorry for the inconvenience! 🙂

[zenith jacinth]

Not dad. Butler.

[velvet wing]

Thomas Wayne who?

[swift pond]

He was gunned down in an alleyway/colony ship

Not paying his child support of course

[zenith jacinth]

Butler.

[swift pond]

Surrogate father, better?

[subtle crown]

You're welcome to have your headcanon. We are not required to accept it.

[swift pond]

Never said otherwise mate. This ain't #lore.

You are equally free to deny canon if you want to, I won't judge.

[subtle crown]

Exactly, so butler.

[swift pond]

The best

Plus or minus a few glitches

[zenith jacinth]

A mildly unhinged butler. Truly the best kind

[subtle crown]

Not only did the butler do it, the butler also canonically bets on your survival.

[swift pond]

Let's hope he rarely bets against us, I couldn't afford that debt

[tribal forum]

are the drifter and operator the same age or not?

[subtle crown]

Technically yes in the weirdest sort of ways.

[tribal forum]

is yesn't also a valid option for the question?

[subtle crown]

So, before they split they were both born at the same exact time thanks to being a single person.

After the split between all the trauma and yelling and surrogate parents there was the operator being put into cryo sleep that basically stopped them aging physically.

Then with time while in the void being so incredibly weird the drifter aged very little physically.

Mentally they're both a millennium old.

One person became 2 > both individuals had various anti-aging creams > 1000 years later op is still pre-pubescant and drifter is "I'll meet you at the pub".

[swift pond]

That does make me wonder if anti-aging is an affect of the Void or outside sources. Parvos lived quite a while in it, though we don't know how young he was/looked when he got there and he was caught in Protea's timeloop to boot so Void can't be the only cause if it were true.

[subtle crown]

The corpus directors all live long lives. Alad V is suggested to be alive during pre-collapse, Darvo Bek is 117 and considered a teenager by his father Frohd Bek.

[swift pond]

So likely no then, or inconclusive at best, since Drifter was stuck there potentially as long and still managed to grow a few feet.

[subtle crown]

Yeah, time in the void is weird at the best of times.

[torpid lantern]

I'm not so sure the void slows aging. I think it just alters time. So the drifter may not be mentally thousands of years old

They could have been in the void for a much shorter period of time than what passed in the outside world

[subtle crown]

They still experienced time progression perception while on the planes.

[torpid lantern]

Oh no doubt! But how much, ehhhh.... we're gonna have to wait till AoZ or Duviri to find out

[subtle crown]

Then technically time shouldn't exist in the void at all, he experiences everything that was, is and will be all at once but the game doesn't work like that.

[torpid lantern]

No he doesn't? Unless you're talking about the Quills because they're a little nebulous how they do that viewing past present future alternatives

The Drifter didn't have a clue what was going on for the operator outside of what they picked up from Ordis, so they really only experienced their own reality up until they got yoinked into the operator's by some off-screen detail

[subtle crown]

Yeah, the void was just a location he was trapped in.

[somber scaffold]

I'd like to apologize if this is the wrong place to ask this question but... is there a reason I can't see the VOD of last night's prime time? I'm trying to look at the Captura that was featured on it.

[subtle crown]

He could move around and do things but could only perceive it as linear time despite knowing it's not the case.

It's private on youtube.

So something is up on their end.

[craggy drum]

Probably for editing out a brief bit where it showed an open document or something just after the fan art section.

[past kiln]

if i can remember both pictures right Parvos has definitely aged since the Old War but a lot less than you'd think someone would age between then and current Warframe

[supple dagger]

Parvos hasn't aged at all since the Old War

The younger Parvos we see is still during that Era

[obtuse rune]

Not sure what skin cream Lotus was trying out but she looked like this for the entire mission.

Not half bad, to be honest. With her being a mimic, it would be an interesting customization element for DE to add.

[zenith jacinth]

She just tryna cosplay as teshin

[winter plinth]

Darvo is the same age as mavis from hotel Transylvania

[swift pond]

This man is too dangerous to stay alive

[wicked iron]

Alad can't have been alive pre-collapse. He thought the Moon wasn't real until The Second Dream, after all.

[cyan crest]

He thought it had been destroyed*

[wicked iron]

He said "we" thought it had been destroyed, but I thought he also said something about thinking it was never real. I could be misremembering, though.

[cyan crest]

"Sweet profit, The Moon exists? It was... it was in the Void all along? I knew the Lotus was powerful but this... she erased history! We thought it was destroyed all this time. My my, Lotus, you make a fine villain!"

He is surprised it exists, yeah, so perhaps he thought it was an urban leyend?

Or, uhm, a normal leyend

[wicked iron]

Lol

[cyan crest]

The moon disappeared inmediatly after the collapse, since I think it's the arid eviscerator synthesis that has Bilsa talk with someone about the tenno rebellion and them saying: "the moon is gone"

[languid viper]

@obtuse rune cortana?

[subtle crown]

I like how "we thought it destroyed" becomes urban legend.

[winter plinth]

Also why does he call it “the” moon

Other planets have like hundreds of moons

Does he even live on earth?

[subtle crown]

All humans and the Orokin were from Earth.

[craggy drum]

Not immediately. The Eviscerator Synthesis is just after the collapse but the Guardsman Synthesis is set sometime after the Eviscerator one and Bilsa is informed that the Moon is gone and is incredulous about the news.

[cyan crest]

I mean that he might have thought the existence of the moon was just a myth, and the Corpus as a faction thought it was destroyed

[subtle crown]

That is some premium copium right there.

[cyan crest]

Some what

[subtle crown]

Premium. Copium.

[cyan crest]

I don't believe it tho, it was just a possibility, because of the way he says "the moon exists???!!?!?!
I have no idea what a copium is

[subtle crown]

"It was in the void? We all thought it destroyed" is a far cry from "wonder if the Earth, with its millennia of recorded history, has a moon"

[cyan crest]

What the hell is a copium tho

[subtle crown]

It's meme slang. Imagine "coping" and denial in physical liquid form.

[cyan crest]

a

[carmine leaf]

Ok I just want numbers. For the new war quest how much is my warframe gonna be used. Also how strong level wise are the rumored railjack missions?

No story spoilers

[subtle crown]

Level 20, very little.

99% of enemies are level 15 or level 20 while you're locked into the quest.

[carmine leaf]

Very little warframe use?

[subtle crown]

I cannot answer without spoiling sorry.

[carmine leaf]

I was just trying to figure if I should go performance or fashion. Thank you for the help on the other question.

[opal rapids]

I would go fashion.

[subtle crown]

Fashion as well. Replaying the quest I go fashion. The popular theory is enemies are all level 20 in the quest just in case someone uses a loadout without mods since there is no way to access the foundry after you start.

[carmine leaf]

Holly hell. Thank god going in with my blade of the lotus atlas. Wish the person who made the blade of the lotus skins would make them for all the frames.

[subtle crown]

If the skins are popular enough they will get fast forwarded through the system because $$$

[carmine leaf]

Please let’s beg that person. I need a nova lotus skin.

I want my knights of the lotus!!!!!!

[subtle crown]

#tennogen-creation-discussion

[languid viper]

@carmine leaf mod your stuff always as if the mission depends on it or youll always suffer

[carmine leaf]

Yeah but I have the god builds of five years ago. Modern mods don’t come easy and good rivens….. suck me.

I know what I said

[real niche]

CO WW and BR are all pretty easy to get bro

[carmine leaf]

What?🤨

[real niche]

Condition Overload, Weeping Wounds, Blood Rush

Those 3 and Bane make up half of most melee builds.

[subtle crown]

Level. 20. Enemies.

Plus decent chance they started the quest an hour ago and can't be changed anyway.

[carmine leaf]

Haven’t started it yet was talking here while doing chores.

I’m just scared that my operator amp that I just finally made is gonna be useless after the quest.

[real niche]

Spoiler: It won't.

[carmine leaf]

Thank god I can rest easy

[subtle crown]

||Good lord it won't||

[cyan crest]

You can beat the quest un-amped anyway

Because of how easy it is

[subtle crown]

I'm just glad one of the spoiler rewards is getting at least a small buff with angels update.

"Yeah, this shiny new thing you just got is so laughably weak that even with an orange crit and buffs out the wazoo an ungilded, unbuffed counterpart does a lot more damage"

[frank flicker]

im having this weird glitch or bug in warframe in the new war mission, it's i think somewhere in the near end maybe? When you fly in to the ship and have to "Pursue Lotus" in the big ship place, but on the 3rd slingshot you fly into her and it looks like it's a beam she shoots at you, but then my character freezes in place and the game is stuck, i resetted twice and this did not fix it :c

could anyone help maybe?

[zenith jacinth]

You have to redirect the beam to the sentients next to her

[frank flicker]

I float in the air and just stuck, unless that is suppoesd to be

should i press a button the redirect teh beam? so far no luckkk

[subtle crown]

https://forums.warframe.com/forum/1784-spoilers-the-new-war-quest-bugs/
Highly recommend making a post on the forums about it.

If you get it again, hit F6.

[zenith jacinth]

That is intentional

[zenith jacinth]

Can you look around or anything? Try that

[subtle crown]

F6 is a custom coded screenshot of the game with a ton of metadata that the devs can use. F12 is a regular screenshot.

But from what it sounds like that part of the quest you just look side to side to redirect the beam.

[zenith jacinth]

Yes

[ashen bone]

tnw is just fire 😎

[swift pond]

It do be kinda fresh though.
Sincerely as possible, it kicked the old flame back on after a good year of not much to write home about (Deadlock being the exception).

[frank flicker]

okay so i fixed the issue by just using the slingshot thing with the operator and not with warframe, weirdly that fixed it but i finished it now

Alao another question, saving all those osrtons, i saved each one, what do you get in the end?

[subtle crown]

A feeling of satisfaction.

[frank flicker]

lol

[frail nymph]

AoZ update is quite big and honestly I had no idea DE was working on something that much bigger than just New War last year... Since when do you guys think they may have started working on it? Only last year or maybe even 2020 a bit?

Also, taking bets on how many people will complain arguing that if AoZ can be in 2 months then that means DE was super lazy for 4 years making only New War. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if people genuinely believed that after seeing the complaints I've seen.

[errant charm]

didnt TNW get like 2 years of delay due to covid causing havoc on the in person required parts like mocap.

[supple dagger]

Angels of Zariman is nowhere near the work effort something like New War was

[heavy obsidian]

Covid is kind of a reason why it got delayed behind Empryean, Heart Of Deimos, and the two mini Quests during Preludes to War since DE moved to their homes so they can safely work on the game until it's ok for them to move back to their office which is where they are now.

[frail nymph]

Yup... 2 years of straight up postponing it. That's why Deimos came before Duviri Paradox. But people still like to ignore everything that was released in 2020 and 2021 and pretend that it took DE 4 years to make the New War quest...

[frail nymph]

I don't think Covid affect New War in terms of making it delayed behind Empyrean. Cause Covid only started affecting them in Early 2020.

But the rest, yeah, pretty much.

[frail nymph]

Is it, though? Focus rework would take more time than making Drifter and his abilities...
The new maps in New War would take less time than full fledged AoZ maps, cause you can simply count the Zariman segment as part of AoZ.
New enemies in AoZ are gonna be as much work as designing the Archons.
3 new gamemodes are probably as much work as the Veso section.
The new upgradable weapons probably more work than the Archon weapons...

And we don't even know the details of the AoZ quest so far...

The major differences in content is Making Kahl and Teshin and the cinematic cutscenes, which is not enough to call it "nowhere near the effort." Aside from that, smaller things include the struggle minigame, some gameplay segments that didn't require new systems (Railjack and Necramech etc)

[subtle crown]

The devs themselves said that new war was the most work involved in a cinematic quest to date.

For what is probably a bridge quest between new war and planes of duviri it will absolutely be lower key than new war.

[frail nymph]

Obviously

Of course New War is more work than AoZ

But not "nowhere near the effort"

It's gotta be at least over 50% of the effort

[subtle crown]

Eh, a big chunk of it is pretty streamlined now.

Only the new gamemodes would be new work. Otherwise the asset team will kill it as they always do.

[frail nymph]

What about the entire Zariman map, focus rework, new enemies, and new weapons?

All of that is created from scratch

[subtle crown]

Asset team, been a constant point of contention so had constant work done now and then, asset team, asset team.

We constantly get new weapons. DE hire positions specifically for "weapon designer".

[frail nymph]

By new work do you mean work after the release of New War? Cause that's not what I mean

[frail nymph]

No I mean designing the upgradable ones... And I would compare them to the Archon weapons, not new character modes.

[subtle crown]

By new work I mean things that haven't been done already the past 9 years.

The upgradeable weapons are just kitguns combined with the protovyre stuff.

[frail nymph]

And the archon weapons are less work

[subtle crown]

You are putting a lot of thought into what is the fortuna fish equivalent of "design a wespon, then remove parts for the earlier stages"

[frail nymph]

But the point is, archon weapons are even simpler than that

[subtle crown]

Yes, what is your point?

[frail nymph]

That archon weapons are simpler than making the AoZ weapons....?

[subtle crown]

The kitgun weapons will arguably be more complex as well.

[frail nymph]

Point is, if you don't count those as content for AoZ, archon weapons for New War should also not be counted

[frail nymph]

So if I were re-framing this with exclusively new stuff....

[subtle crown]

They are absolutely content.

What is wrong with you?

The weapon team does what the weapon team does. They will have all the weapons ready to go the exact same way they always do for every single new weapon release.

Same as they have the past 9 years.

You're talking as if the asset team didn't exist prior to this single quest.

[frail nymph]

New maps in New War, vs Zariman in AoZ.
Teshin's traversal mechanic.
New finishers based on guns, kinda.
New visual assets.
Multiple companions at the same time (For Veso)

And that's it... everything else is the same as what has already been done. So not incomparably more stuff in New War in that new perspective either.

[frail nymph]

You're the one who discarded it as nothing

[subtle crown]

They made the kitguns work with over 1200 possible combinations all playing together. They can easily do a progressive weapon with no customisation and instead is "protovyre" 2.0./

[subtle crown]

Where?

[frail nymph]

here

That AoZ only has new gamemodes and map assets and nothing else noteworthy

[subtle crown]

Very well. "Work that has not been done regularly in the past 9 years"

Happy now?

Or will you still have an issue for something I've explained several times now?

[frail nymph]

Yes, that's why I made the slightly different comparison...

[frail nymph]

The comparison here

[subtle crown]

Oh, I forgot how awful Teshins traversal was. The worst parts of "slow projectile" combined with Valk ripline.

[frail nymph]

At least it holds momentum better than Valkyr, I don't hate it... But yeah bullet jumping is bullet jumping

[subtle crown]

When you say "new maps" just to be clear we're talking the same earth map, grineer planet map and jupiter gas map right?

[frail nymph]

Huh?

[swift pond]

I am a little biased towards it from playing RoR2 Loader a lot. Bullet jumps are 100% better but hooks are just plain fun. When done right.

[subtle crown]

Oh, add murex map to that list as well.

[frail nymph]

No I mean the actually new sections of the map. The temple in which you find the first archon, map inside the Narmer factor, etc. The work spent in adding the assets to the two open worlds and archon arenas, the final boss arena, etc. Whatever part was literally added in 2020 and 2021 rather than reused

Comparing that to all of Zariman

[subtle crown]

Yes, Zariman will likely get less work.

[frail nymph]

How is the entirety of the Zariman less work than the few map additions in New War??

[subtle crown]

Especially since a bunch of work has already been done and the 2-3 employees whose job it is to build the tilesets would have been given the work and not stopped.

[frail nymph]

I'm not talking about excluding the work that was done in 2021 and possibly 2020 on Zariman

[subtle crown]

Like talking to a brick wall...

[frail nymph]

I'm talking about everything in 2020 and 2021 that was made for New War vs everything in 2020 and 2021 that was made for AoZ. That's what the discussion was always about. "A bunch of work being already done" before New War release doesn't mean AoZ took less work in total.

[subtle crown]

By "a bunch of work already being done" I mean the Zariman tileset.

[frail nymph]

That just adds to AoZ content

[subtle crown]

In building the Zariman for the new war quest they would already start building out the actual Zariman tileset.

[frail nymph]

And all of that counts as AoZ content

Other than any rooms that are in New War but missing from AoZ

[subtle crown]

Cool, so the new war was actually AoZ content.

[frail nymph]

As for the Zariman map sections common to both New War and AoZ, yes.

Things like the classroom with the spotlight, stuff we won't see in AoZ, is strictly New War content

[subtle crown]

Like, this is incredibly generic workflow practices for the industry.

[frail nymph]

Your point?

[subtle crown]

That you're putting a LOT of stock in what employees have been doing for the past 9 years as their 9-5.

"There is all this work from the asset team as well as new game modes"

[frail nymph]

Most of New War was what employees have been doing for the past 9 years, yet you ignore that fact

Just because they worked on AoZ assets before releasing New War doesn't mean those assets don't count as work for AoZ

[subtle crown]

Most of the work for new war is the cinematics. Exactly as the devs have spoken about numerous times.

Cinematics have never been their wheelhouse.

[frail nymph]

Oh so you've basically agreed with me from the beginning and just saying what I'm saying.

[subtle crown]

Yet you still have issue with "new work".

[frail nymph]

What issue, exactly?

[subtle crown]

since you comprehend that cinematics are new work but the weapons are from the same people who just gave us half a dozen last Tuesday.

[frail nymph]

They are still work. Just because they've been doing it doesn't mean it magically makes itself happen.

[subtle crown]

I never denied that.

[frail nymph]

I initially compared every aspect of New War to AoZ, regardless of whether it was stuff they are good at or not.

Then you said it shouldn't count as work, so I compared only the completely new aspects they have not copy pasted.

what exactly is your issue with this?

[subtle crown]

I'm just pointing out they have a ton of practice and making something like "evolving weapons" just means they design a weapon and remove parts to make it more simple until progress is made.

[frail nymph]

Initial comparison here

[frail nymph]

Latter comparison here

[subtle crown]

Yes, I'm still seeing you simp hard for the asset team.

[frail nymph]

Which is why I only compared "stuff they practiced and made for AoZ" strictly to "stuff they practiced and made for new war"

[subtle crown]

Oh and still claiming "it shouldn't count as work"

[frail nymph]

Why are you claiming that though?

[subtle crown]

BECAUSE YOU ARE

I never once said that.

[frail nymph]

I never did, I only put a new perspective on the comparison because you explicitly wanted it

[subtle crown]

Multiple times I pointed out not only the asset team, but DE hire specific weapon designers.

[frail nymph]

You mentioned very explicitly that only new gamemodes count as work and nothing else

[subtle crown]

Last time I saw their job openings the weapon design team was 2 people looking for a 3rd.

"New work" not "only work"

Like the cinematics are "new work"

[frail nymph]

And that's irrelevant, because they did it for both New War and AoZ. There's no reason to bring it up at all, because they are a similarity between the two quests, not a difference

[subtle crown]

Work where they don't already have a streamlined process and it requires a lot more thought and involvement.

[frail nymph]

And that's why I made a list of things that didn't have streamlined processes.

[subtle crown]

It is still work, but unlike the cinematics the weapon team and tileset team already have a bunch of experience so could get the documentation and get to work.

[frail nymph]

Again, how does that change anything about my argument over....

[frail nymph]

over here

[subtle crown]

Nice edit btw.

[frail nymph]

Hahaha, classic cognitive dissonance

The edit was the addition of "Aside from that, smaller things include the struggle minigame, some gameplay segments that didn't require new systems (Railjack and Necramech etc)"

It doesn't change anything, and I added that edit before we even began talking

[fossil viper]

Why y'all just straight arguing in a spoiler chat- neither of y'all agree with eachother so don't waste the time-

[subtle crown]

We do this a lot.

[frail nymph]

That's the funny part, I haven't seen anything so far I disagree with

Yet stuff I know keeps getting used as some argument against me and I still don't understand why

[fossil viper]

I can tell but it's moved from spoilers to well a back and forth thing that seems less like a spoiler and more like a bicker.

[frail nymph]

Yeah, but it's still kinda not allowed elsewhere... better here than in #lore-discussion discussion

This is a chat after all

[subtle crown]

Yeah, this isn't lore and has no business being there.

[frail nymph]

||LMAO imagine this thread but in another channel all covered in spoiler tags||

[subtle crown]

Ew. Plzno.

[fossil viper]

I'm not saying it's not spoilers. It just seems unrelated but also related?

But mostly not—

[subtle crown]

This is all new war and angels of zariman.

[fossil viper]

Idk I'm not a mod I just noticed you two going at it I've been watching 🤌

[subtle crown]

We can't talk about it outside of a spoiler chat since AoZ is heavily involved.

[fossil viper]

Ah that's fair

[swift pond]

Really, all of this is something only DE themselves would have the full picture to. Not much room for comment.

[frail nymph]

Well yeah, in the end it's all our best guess

[subtle crown]

So I'm just excited to be able to explore the zariman tileset. The team always does such incredible work and the aesthetic really looks on point from what we have seen.

[frail nymph]

Imagine if the humanoid looking void material sculpture things came alive and attacked you

[swift pond]

Just wondering what the new game modes will be. Aside from mass homicide, but that's a given.

[frail nymph]

Cause the angels themselves are an enemy

[subtle crown]

Yeah, running theory at the moment.

[swift pond]

Either that or they're part of the upcoming faction, I'd wager.

[frail nymph]

They literally made one of the gamemodes for exactly that hehe... Go ham

[subtle crown]

At the end of the day we're still space murder hobos.

[supple dagger]

Yes, New War absolutely is more work. You're far understanding how much work getting all the mocap and VO for for the amount of cinematics this quest would take

The only new enemy for AoZ currently is the Thrax, Focus rework isn't even covering all the schools and doesn't require someone like an entirely new model and rig like quest Drifter has, and the New War maps absolutely take more time by the pure fact they got part of Zariman done for new War

[wicked iron]

I think the Focus rework is for all the schools. They just only showed off one school, as I recall.

[west vessel]

ye

think it was unairu

[wicked iron]

We have homes, so we aren't hobos. 😛

[west vessel]

ye

we can be in orbiter or the drifter camp

[wicked iron]

And soon, an apartment on the Zariman! 😄

[west vessel]

yes

[shell yacht]

Can't remember can we make it our spawning area instead of camp and orbiter

[wicked iron]

Not sure. I am guessing we will be able to, though.

[zenith jacinth]

I hope so

[subtle crown]

Also yes. All focus schools are getting the rework. The devs just "showed off Uniaru" though didn't really show any "uniaru-ness" that was unique to it.

Hence all the worrying about Zenurik energy dash from various people.

[torpid lantern]

And the void angels!!! The amp upgrades mentioned killing void angels to unlock its achievements.
I'm still mildly convinced they're gonna be the parents

[subtle crown]

Was it amp upgrades or Sirocco upgrades?

[carmine leaf]

So I’m at the choice in new war. Cosmetics wise do I keep all my old operator stuff. Drifter wise do I have to make new amps?

[subtle crown]

So, amps get full parity.

[carmine leaf]

I noticed that I didn’t have the zaramine prime suit

[subtle crown]

Only the outfits are operator/drifter locked and the devs mentioned a couple months ago they are working on full outfit parity between the two, but that was months ago with no updates so I'm hopeful it isn't happening.

[carmine leaf]

That sucks considering some of those are paid

Also it seems that this is a permanent choice.

[subtle crown]

Yeah, with the Harrow suit working for both I would figure that when Valkyr and Zephyr prime resurgence come back then drifter would get the wallet only suits.

[carmine leaf]

Yeah this is permanent?

[subtle crown]

Nope.

[carmine leaf]

Ok I know who to choose now.

[subtle crown]

After the quest you go to the operator chair in your ship. Single click to swap between them.

[carmine leaf]

Gonna end this as we started.

[kindred briar]

just took a look at the stats page for the anniversary, glad to see even balance is balanced

[torpid lantern]

Are they not the same? They use it like an amp so I kinda just call it an amp

They mentioned the clothes are going to take an INSANE amount of work

Everything will have to be rebuilt because the stretching option that they were using is totally awful looking on some of the stuff. But they said they'd do it so I believe them. Same with the facial hair option.

It's just gonna take a long time. No news doesn't mean it's not happening. Aka the constant frantic barrage of crossplay/save questions 😅

[subtle crown]

Not going to lie, imagining those operator outfits that look like they covered themselves in glue then rolled around dads shed and called it a look all weirdly stretched out trying to fit onto the adult is highly amusing.

Makes me wish we could get tennogen outfits and not only bits to glue onto the face.

[torpid lantern]

Totally!!! I still don't understand why we cant have operator tennogen suits. Can you imagine how cool they'd be? Like Corpus fashion, ninja gear, grineer armor, proper space suits?
And what about hairstyles?

Ahhhhh, I'd lose so much money

[subtle crown]

Same.

Though some of the best outfits wouldn't get through thanks to "Nova airline stewardess rule".

[torpid lantern]

The what?

[subtle crown]

Nova has a tennogen skin that is basically an airline stewardess. The devs basically said they're allowing it through due to the sheer popularity of it but they won't be accepting any more like that as they don't want too many real world references mixed in with the aesthetic.

[torpid lantern]

Ooooh

Yeah well I wouldnt want real world stuff. That's kinda meh when we have so much great culture to work with!

[subtle crown]

Here I am wanting a turtleneck and cargo pants for drifter since it's super generic but instead we're getting the disaster that is operator outfits.

[torpid lantern]

The Harrier stuff is about as comfortable as I am with that

[subtle crown]

The harrier chest would be amazing if we could remove that ugly outer vest.

Sadly been constantly asking for years to no avail.

[torpid lantern]

I was thinking the other way around honestly. The inner shell looks super weird to me xD

Like separate them into the vest being an accessory

[subtle crown]

Win win for everyone.

[torpid lantern]

I forget what that's called in game. The belts and things

But it totally be a way better way of doing it

[subtle crown]

either accessory or attachment.

[torpid lantern]

Still... there's some incredible artists out there

I'd love to see what they could do

[subtle crown]

Yeah, would also be good if they had access to creating tennogen for a select few prime frames with awful base forms like Chroma.

[bronze anchor]

listening to Onkko talk after TNW hits different

[vagrant sorrel]

TNW recontextualised a lot of things, Onkko's monologues in particular. I love that honestly

[tiny flume]

hey, I've got a New War question, I want to replay the quest but I don't have a large chunk of time as I did the first time, how frequent are the points where you can just pause and exit the game to come back to it later?

[craggy drum]

Whenever it brings up the “Now saving” prompt (often when you return to Drifters Camp) once you’ve seen that you can close the game and come back to it whenever.

[tiny flume]

gotcha, thanks friend

[cyan crest]

The first chunk is the longest part you'll get without checkpoints
I think
Tho, you can exit whenever you change character

[supple dagger]

can someone explain to me who ballas is

ballas*

[past kiln]

Blue man who’s responsible for like half of the lore events happening

[ripe estuary]

Are they ever going to give lavos a skin?

he needs some love

[past kiln]

Orokin executor who was dating Margulis until he and the seven voted to execute her because she was too close to the Tenno, and that combined with the Orokin not liking the Tenno void powers in the first place led to him despising the Tenno. He also led the warframe project and created multiple frames

[real niche]

Nah, 4 more Wisp skins

[ripe estuary]

🥲

[supple dagger]

so is he the reason for robot lotus

[past kiln]

Oh and because he blamed the Orokin for killing Margulis he worked with the Sentients in the Old War and told Hunhow where the Tenno were

[past kiln]

Natah was originally a sentient but became lotus because of ballas/the Orokin. ballas also factory reset her in apostasy and manipulated her along with erra

[real niche]

Lotus was always robot, Natah is the original

[supple dagger]

oh damn alr

[supple dagger]

so thats why ballas was chained up with erra or who was that

well erra had balls on chains

[past kiln]

ballas manipulated lotus into thinking erra was leading the sentients while it was ballas in reality

At the end of maker he and erra stand equal, and in new war he’s sitting on the Narmer throne, not Erra

[supple dagger]

oh alr

[carmine leaf]

So is there any time difference between the lotus, Natah, and margulas in mission tones?

[craggy drum]

There’s no line differences. The only difference are the filters on the voice

[carmine leaf]

Wonder what a poll would look like. I chose margulas. The true mom.

But then again they were all mothers.

[thick jolt]

I chose new lotus cuz thats the form she herself chose

[velvet wing]

A poll of what?

[wicked iron]

They already showed the majority of players chose Margulis. I think in the anniversary site.

https://www.warframe.com/anniversary

Final Choice
42% Margulis
38% Lotus
20% Natah

[velvet wing]

||

[carmine leaf]

Wow I’m based

To be care ending the quest as the drifter just felt right.

As the operator says. “You are the one who saved and nursed her back to health.

Who else laughed when CY called lotus our mommy.

[torpid lantern]

I just cringed and wished he didn't, honestly 😅

Felt kinda forced and pulled me out of the moment

[sick kettle]

Have you all heard the rumors that Garuda and Xaku are getting buffed?

[real niche]

Garuda was already buffed????? Like not even a month ago?????

[supple dagger]

They haven't said anything about Xaku either

[zenith jacinth]

Rumors are rumors.

[spark herald]

Xaku doesnt need buffs.

[opal rapids]

I just wanted space mom back, and Drifter did the legwork but she wasn't their space mom

[twilit geode]

I chose Operator, because of several reasons.
-The Drifter is not from this timeline, they even had to be reminded what Ballas' name was. The Operator however, has had multiple dealings with, and knows who Ballas is.
-The Drifter has not used the weapons from the Operator's arsenal, and has not done extensive modding work to optimize destructive potential to Sentients. The Operator has.
-The Drifter has never piloted a Warframe, Railjack, or Necramech before. The Operator has had extensive experience with those things.
-The Drifter only JUST got void powers, and is still learning. The Operator went through a journey to get and master said skills. And if you're like me, you farmed up to max out each and every Focus tree.

In the end, it was a choice made for what is literally the task to save the system from certain peril. It only made sense to choose the person who lived in, and had experience with said system and timeline. Not to mention, Lotus would be more prone to listening to the version of the Tenno that she personally knows.

[wicked iron]

I like what the Drifter says if you choose Operator, but I also like that the Operator thinks the Drifter should after having taken care of the Lotus for however long a period of time. I chose Operator for my original, but I like how all the options they give (that, and the name choice at the end) are all viable for a variety of reasons. It just depends on which reasons resonate for us, personally. 😄

[twilit geode]

Oh don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed the Drifter, and love their dry jokes. Absolutely like I would be, and how I envision my Operator growing up to be. A dark, sarcastic sense of humor.
But in the case of the quest, it made more sense to bring out the Operator to me personally.

[wicked pike]

Same, I picked my operator because this kid has literally been through so much trying to get her back. It felt like the right conclusion to my own operator's arc. going back again and replaying it as drift was fun though

[opal rapids]

I loved going back and doing it again with the Drifter though for those throwaway lines like it can't be harder than riding a horse.

[wicked pike]

I love drifts jokes and bickering with Ordis. But I also love my kiddo a lot and now that kiddo has his mom back I'm looking forwards to learning more about drift.

[opal rapids]

Yes

[north hamlet]

Oh god I have shivers up my spine now when I have reached that part in the Second Dream quest

[celest ocean]

what part

[north hamlet]

The part where the Operator makes their debut

[carmine leaf]

That might not be throw away. We do see the drifter riding a phantom Dax horse in one of the trailers for the nex major story quest that was teased befor new war.

Duviri paradox. Thats what it’s called.

[obtuse rune]

Lotus is doing Cosplay again. Am I the only one she's harassing with her new obsession? I have a feeling she won't stop until I return the favor.

[calm bronze]

My man wrote a whole essay

[twilit geode]

I didn’t expect it to turn out as long as it did. But here we are. lol

[calm bronze]

Dyslexia wasn't on my side when I read it

[old cairn]

So.

What if there were Drifter only missions?

So void cloak and dash gone, with your school adding a forth ability. Also the ability to use primaries.

[ionic sleet]

I would enjoy some more Drifter only gameplay. That was fun.

[opal rapids]

I do know that

Regarding the Duviri horse bit

[torpid lantern]

I would legit squeal if they finally did that. Could you imagine how fun it'd be? We've never had operator only missions.you could argue Eidolon's are Op only but they're not really missions and you're not really enjoying their gameplay the way you would if we had Operator/Drifter missions.
And if they brought back the Drifter's NW abilities and let them use the bow and knife again, it would legit be like the greatest thing ever

[opal rapids]

"Orphix" style missions that Ordis can't call our archwing or nechramech to for Techinical Reasons™️ would be interesting

I don't know how we would justify having our kit with us through Transferrence failure.

But deploying with your kit would make sense.

[subtle crown]

As long as we at least got void dash and our custom amps along with the gadgets.

[opal rapids]

Duviri being a whole op/drifter-only open world would be interesting as heck

[subtle crown]

Interesting for maybe 5 minutes. Then annoying realising you're locked out of archwing and bullet jumping.

[opal rapids]

I think Drifter would need to go to Tennocamp (what i call our Mental Teshin Bootcamp while the Queens wanted to eat us) on or off screen to make that parity happen

[subtle crown]

Drifter already has void powers though.

[opal rapids]

I still think that's weird but yes technically

[subtle crown]

Why would he need to go through the process of the trauma of the second dream when that never once applied.

[opal rapids]

I kinda forget that Drifter was just thrown in as a reskin for game play after The Choice of who got to rescue Space Mom

[subtle crown]

No void powers, no Ballas, no Teshin, no Natah, grandpa Hunhow.

Like, a big part of the story simply cannot apply to the drifter. It's why old quests force you into operator.

[opal rapids]

Like, Drifter specifically mentioned that they didn't have their void powers yet early in the quest and it feels handwaved (or I've forgotten which is also possible)

Idk I just feel weird about it

[subtle crown]

Yeah, drifter always spoke as if void powers were "puberty" and he would get them eventually. They just haven't grown in yet.

If anything drifter sets up the possibility of other tenno that escaped the second dream.

[supple dagger]

That would be Rell, not Drifter. Drifter was never in the Dream in the first place

[subtle crown]

Yeah, to clarify I mean escape being put in the second dream. Not leaving it.

So like Rell but more... neurotypical.

[opal rapids]

Mmm.

So "didn't get rescued" but also not "chained into a warframe to hold off Wallyman the existential threat to our existence"

Wait

[subtle crown]

Did get rescued, did get void powers, was not put into the second dream, did not go clinically insane being a jailer for an eldrich abomination.

[opal rapids]

No, we only got powers because we made the deal, which Drifter didn't, so they... had to develop their own access to void energy later

You're implying that Drifter (not rescued, no deal, no powers at time of meeting) suggests more Tenno not consigned to the Dream by Margulis (yes deal, yes rescue, no Dream)?

[subtle crown]

While I'm not implying it, I am thinking it might be a suggestion as drifter is now our second example of "did not go into the dream".

[opal rapids]

I mean only the rescued Tenno were Dreamed

So far (?)

[frail nymph]

There's also the fact that Drifter when shaking hands in the Deal cutscene is much older than opeartor.

[subtle crown]

Yes. There could be tenno who moved around the system and hid between getting rescued and being put into the dream.

[opal rapids]

I think eternalism is mucking with my ability to keep this clear.

[subtle crown]

There could also be Tenno who are the open world vendors for planes of duviri.

[opal rapids]

Rell was abandoned by his peers, not rescued(?), no dream, somehow chained himself in a warframe that he got(?)

[subtle crown]

Think of it like this. 99% of tenno were on the moon when they were put into the dream. There might have been like 2 tenno who were on Pluto when it happened and stayed hidden until after the collapse.

[frail nymph]

We don't know that at all

[opal rapids]

Maybe I need to give up while I'm still half certain of the facts

[frail nymph]

No dream but he was already almost more advanced than post War Within Tenno in the Zariman itself

[subtle crown]

Yeah, this is pure speculation and absolutely nothing more.

[opal rapids]

Yes, he had to develop to fend for himself. It was go feral or die I guess.

[frail nymph]

Also being a prodigy of sorts... At least it seemed that way from his geekiness about Tau and his instant detection of Wally

[subtle crown]

Hence me wondering if someone more neurotypical was also never placed into the dream.

[frail nymph]

BTW how much do we know about why Rell got cast out?

[opal rapids]

Lemme make sure I've got my dreams straight:
#1 Margulis to save us from ourselves
#2 Lotus to save us from them

[subtle crown]

Children are horrible.

[frail nymph]

Cause clearly Margulis hating him for being different must be a stretch

[subtle crown]

It's not a stretch.

Not everyone can handle it.

[opal rapids]

Neurotypical kids don't understand neurodivergent kids and Rell was "too weird" to let into the safety in numbers crew of the Zariman survivors

[frail nymph]

Kind of...
#1, the dream, is just sleeping in nothingness etc.
#2 is waking up from the dream, but actually ending up in the second dream, aka inside a warframe.

Both the dream and the second dream were Margulis's inventions.

The long dream, however, Lotus put us into

[subtle crown]

She is dealing with potentially 5-6 digits worth of kids. The weird ones might be nothing more than ID numbers.

Needs of the many over the needs of the few. It's part of why Rell shut down to everything except what he was doing right then and there.

[opal rapids]

I was the kid who talked to adults (i.e. teachers) because they made more sense than other kids. Go go gadget undiagnosed autism spectrum Rhea!

[frail nymph]

Maybe, but I see it more as him causing problems rather than him just being hated for being on the autism spectrum. Like maybe he was insistent about what he knew about the void, meanwhile Margulis and the other archimedians had no trace of the MITW...

[subtle crown]

Albrecht Entrati who?

[opal rapids]

He was specifically outcast after the Zariman fell because kids hate Different

Is in the comic

[frail nymph]

Albrecht never told anyone... The back room in Necralisk is a secret even to Mother

[frail nymph]

That was inside the Zariman, yes.
I'm talking about Margulis specifically doing it after they were rescued as the Red Veil person described

[craggy drum]

I think that Margulis believed Rell was suffering Void Madness with his talking about Wally

[subtle crown]

The Zariman as a ship itself was rscued from the void. The kids and all the content came out. If reports are to be believed it came out unnervingly immaculate.

[frail nymph]

And not just reports, first hand experience of the officer in charge too

[opal rapids]

Sorry yeah, I do see that it's confirmed he was rescued with the ship and excluded again, and it's speculated it's because he wouldn't fit neatly into use case boxes

[frail nymph]

Of course that assumes that the Ember Prime entry itself isn't doctored, but if it was doctored, why does it have any mention of the kids or even Zariman's failure?

[subtle crown]

7 years

[craggy drum]

At least this implies that maybe Margulis thought that his autism left his mind susceptible to Void Madness.

[subtle crown]

Again. Margulis did what she could with 5+ digits of teenagers barely in puberty.

[craggy drum]

All will hard to control Void Powers that they didn’t understand

And trauma

[frail nymph]

Yup... If Rell is out here teaching his cult about his disagreement with Margulis's theory, he would certainly have argued with her about it

[frail nymph]

Wait does the Erra cinematic really confirm that many Tenno? sheesh

[opal rapids]

To be honest we the player are fairly well adjusted little war criminals considering

[subtle crown]

Also why I think a small handful of tenno could have slipped through the cracks and escaped being put into the dream in the first place.

[frail nymph]

But why would they want to escape the dream?

It's just therapy that takes the pain away

[subtle crown]

Why wouldn't they?

[frail nymph]

Why would they want to be in constant pain instead of resting peacefully?

[opal rapids]

I mean at the time all they had to go on was Margulis' word I guess

[subtle crown]

"you're scared out of your minds, let me put you into a coma"

[frail nymph]

Well they probably had the experience of their peers... I doubt Margulis somehow put them all into the dream without any prototypes

[opal rapids]

Sometimes being you is more important than not hurting. There are folks who try different psychiatric medications that don't vibe with them that need to stop them.

[frail nymph]

Doesn't seem anything like a Coma at all

It's more like Lucid Dreaming

[subtle crown]

Rell wasn't put in by virtue of him being rejected, Drifter didn't go in since he was trapped in the void and chillin on duviri.

[opal rapids]

Many antidepressants (at least, these are what I have most experience with) are known to cause personality changes or awareness changes unpalatable to the taker.

[subtle crown]

Don't forget the antidepressants that make you gain weight like crazy.

[opal rapids]

Also valid but probably not a reason to avoid cryosleep

[frail nymph]

Very pleasant and peaceful Lucid dreaming

[frail nymph]

Cryosleep is different, that's the long dream, Lotus did that at the end to preserve the Tenno.
In the Original Dream, Tenno were fully Lucid and able to sense and also seemingly respond to what's happening around them.

[subtle crown]

Could they communicate outside their pods?

[opal rapids]

Anyway I gotta go back to work

[frail nymph]

Not sure but it says they could control and focus their power... that must mean something rather than just imaginations

xD I just imagine a floating potato pod gliding around vaporising all the stuff

[subtle crown]

Because after they came out of the pods they said it was fine. How about during when mass amounts of people were going in.

[frail nymph]

IDK about mass amounts of people, but doesn't seem like they had any complaints so far.

[subtle crown]

You keep arguing that it was this amazing perfect thing that not a single person would ever want to avoid.

[frail nymph]

That's what the description is so far, yes

[supple dagger]

Not a coma. The Second Dream is just transference itself

[frail nymph]

We're currently talking about the Dream. The first one

[subtle crown]

Meanwhile IRL there are people who would avoid it for a plethora of reasons. The concept that barely a handful of people avoided it out of 5+ digits is not at all weird to me.

[supple dagger]

They're the same thing though. Second Dream isn't a title

[frail nymph]

They're not, the two are described differently

[supple dagger]

It's not really

[frail nymph]

The Dream is when they just sort of sleep but not really. They are at peace but also listening to what's going on. Able to "control and focus their power."

Second Dream is when you feel like you wake up from The Dream, but actually you enter a second dream, aka the experience of being a Warframe

Two very different things, the latter being an expansion/upgrade of the first.

Second Dream is only mentioned when Lotus begins to talk about Transference.
I guess it's not necessarily an official name ingame, and the real name is just Transference.

[frail nymph]

But The Dream itself is an official name

[frail nymph]

BTW I don't really know any good descriptions of the Dream other than TSD quest... Where can I look up that coma description kind of stuff?

[subtle crown]

Nah, coma is the initial dream stuff combined with the complete lack of self while in the second dream where you exist as warframes.

Nothing canon.

[frail nymph]

Oh you mean the post-awakening stuff? Gotcha

[subtle crown]

Even pre-awakening.

You're still inside the inactive frame.

[frail nymph]

Tenno didn't have a lack of self during the War... But during the Long Dream, yeah that counts as pre-awakening

[subtle crown]

So what happens to the Tenno in the chair being linked to an inactive frame with a complete lack of self?

[frail nymph]

Although that's as close as you get to cryosleep itself while IDK how close a coma is to that

[subtle crown]

No sensory inputs, there would need to be some sort of "pause" button for situations like that.

[frail nymph]

Apparently a coma is indeed a lack of self-awareness... SO basically cryosleep without the cryo part

[supple dagger]

That's just the cryosleep we were put into

[frail nymph]

Yes, but we didn't require the cryo part, so indistinguishable from Coma...
Could say VoidSleep instead I guess

[torpid lantern]

Not all of them had a loss of self. Tenno had schools and trained with amps and fought the Orokin at the collapse with them. Maybe only a handful were allowed to remembered. Idk.

[frail nymph]

He's talking about the long dream specifically. Where we slept between the Old war and the beginning of the game.
Although yeah, I wouldn't call that process the second dream

[torpid lantern]

Oh, like, where the frames were?

[supple dagger]

That's was just cryo, yeah

[frail nymph]

Well more like where we were in the pods

[subtle crown]

Cryo > we wake up and between awakening and second dream we don't even know our bodies exist.

[frail nymph]

That's what we usually call it yeah, but it wasn't literally cryo. Some Warframes have been put in crypods for... reasons... But not Tenno. Tenno thing has been called the "long dream" by Lotus and I don't know any other ingame name...

[torpid lantern]

Oh. Probably scattered. I firmly believe not every single Tenno stayed in the pod. I feel like others went the same direction as Varzia and defense targets.

[supple dagger]

When has it even been called the long dream.

[frail nymph]

Yeah I mean at least someone has to be there to help awaken Tenno like the opening cinematic

[frail nymph]

Chains of Harrow

[subtle crown]

Yeah, this whole thing started because I suggested that after Rell and Drifter never going into a pod/the dream there may be a small group of other Tenno that didn't.

[torpid lantern]

Not everyone got amnesia though. The main Tenno had it but not everyone. Varzia said like a rough 50% forgot the old war. Teshin couldnt have been helping all of them remember and Lotus def didnt want to help people remember based on her talk with the player, so the others must have just been undamaged from cryosleep.

[frail nymph]

Well Lotus didn't want to help until TWW, but her perspective seems to begin to change by the end with her rationalising that maybe we needed it

[supple dagger]

The issue there is that Varzia could also mean only half the Tenno have gotten their memories back

Which is more on track with how the story has played out

[torpid lantern]

I believe it. But they would have had to find cryosleep somewhere or they're totally dead by now

[subtle crown]

Are they?

[torpid lantern]

It's too long of time. Tenno aren't immortal

[frail nymph]

Ohh so you meant the long dream rather than the first instance of transference therapy

[cyan crest]

The whole thing with Rell is that he sacrificed his body to stay alive without the dream, so yeah, what Faeii says

[torpid lantern]

Or that only half of them remember. She doesn't say that they had to regain them so they may not have lost them to start with.

[subtle crown]

The naga quees says our body is free of age and decay, Alad V is suggested to be from pre-collapse by Hunhow who was physically there, Drifter wasn't in cryo and they became adults (though time plays by no ones rules, not even its own in the void).

Then corpus directors are centuries old.

[frail nymph]

Yup. Rell's perspective could have been chalked up to him planning to fight for eternity and thus discarded...
But Lotus's doubt about how he survived definitely proves that the time since the Old War is too long

[supple dagger]

Maybe. But that goes against the way things have been shown.

[cyan crest]

Our bodies are free of age and decay because the dream? Perhaps?

Battery ded

Bye

[torpid lantern]

The void is wibbly wobbly. I wouldn't really use the Drifter as an example. And we know the Naga queen is wrong so maybe she meant the Warframe.

[supple dagger]

Granted, we've only been shown things from our end. So it falls into thinking weather memory loss is the rule or the exception

[frail nymph]

I don't think anything has implied Alad was present Pre-Collapse. His tech speaks for itself...
That line was more of Hunhow calling him Orokin cause he thought he was one. There were no "corpus" corpus back then.

[subtle crown]

Only Alad gets the line, none of the other corpus.

[torpid lantern]

The problem is, we've only ever been shown one Tenno. And they are the exception now after seeing how MITW specifically chose them and they've been out there leading the charge. Their experience is just one of dozens

[torpid lantern]

Well not the way we know them as, yep

[frail nymph]

The Drifter situation seems like this to me:

The Duviri Paradox is a reference to Einstein's Twin Paradox. Albrecht's entire body of work is a bunch of references to Einsteins works... "The palimpest of spacetime, changing the frame, etc etc."

The Twin Paradox is about a twin on a ship who ages slower because less time passes for him, and his Earthbound twin ends up being older than him.
In the same way, Operator (Luabound twin) would be older than Difter(Twin in the ship). Drifter would have only experienced a couple decades or so, much less time than the centuries of operator.
However Operator didn't age biologically partially cause of using Warframes for several lifetimes and partially cause of the long dream cryosleep thing. So that's an extra layer on the twin paradox...

[supple dagger]

Beyond protagonist syndrome for events, there's nothing to suggests us losing our memories would be done kind of outliers, especially when Lotus leans into not wanting the Tenno to have their memories back too

[frail nymph]

Well maybe not for all but your tenno, but nothing also refutes some tenno never losing memories. Although it does raise suspicious as to what they were doing during TSD

[subtle crown]

Yeah, quest wise I always justified it as the solo quests our personal tenno does while all the others are off doing other things. The public quests we meet up and do our thing.

Then there are quests where parts of it could be done by multiple tenno. Like the sacrifice where Teshin reveals just how much he lied through omission to us and makes Lotus look like a saint in comparison. But the thing that starts it is different.

[frail nymph]

Wait what does Teshin do in the Sacrifice?

[subtle crown]

Oh, not sacrifice. That one with the twin queens and snowy mountain.

War within?

Yeah, I meant war within. My bad.

[frail nymph]

BTW, did Teshin have the choice to reveal things earlier? I guess he did...? But would he go against Lotus to do so?

[subtle crown]

Oh I'm sure he would have if he had the option.

Mostly out of spite for Lotus.

Partly to try and make his C O N C L A V E at least mildly relevant.

[supple dagger]

He would when needed, but he didn't have much choice in the matter until they were alone

[subtle crown]

don't forget during the second dream "Lotus is lying to you, I won't tell you how she is lying to you but she is lying to you. Believe me instead even though I refuse to say anything and have never once been trustworthy"

[torpid lantern]

Tenno:

Like seriously. Did they ever even speak to him before War Within? I don't remember a canon meeting

[subtle crown]

Speak to who sorry?

Oh, that. Teshin has always had a "connection to the tenno" plot wise ever since he was introduced. It's why during the Natah quest Teshin was an opportunistic bleep and was all "she is busy, i'll take over and tell the pre-teens about how much she lies"

Then proceeds to lie worse than Lotus ever did.

[frail nymph]

Well he's gotta maintain the cool factor

[subtle crown]

But I'm sure he would have said more purely out of spite for Lotus if he was able.

Part of what Teshin held above Lotus either she was not born or was not in Sol system yet.

Actually, not born. Margulis was gruesomely executed before the sentients even gained sentience.

[frail nymph]

Looks like Teshin was figuring stuff out along with using all along Natah quest... Not sure what he hid, exactly. I guess he could reveal to us that we are Tenno, but there also, why?

[past kiln]

Yea idk where all of the love for Teshin is from
He lied constantly

[subtle crown]

Nothing quite like "Lotus never told you what actually happened to Margulis, did she?" - "she didn't fill you in on something that happened before her entire race even existed"

[frail nymph]

He did omit the truth of the Tenno, but I feel like the truth anyway wasn't really relevant until he revealed it to us.
Besides, Lotus specifically would have been an obstacle for him to tell the Truth.

He's been doing his job just fine, training us for fighting the old enemy using the conclave, just not calling them the sentients cause that name means nothing to us anyway.

[subtle crown]

Then what she does know is nothing but brainwashing by Ballas.

[supple dagger]

Margulis was still alive well into the Old War

[subtle crown]

Then Teshin in the quest. Equally as insufferable with forced melee, bad stances and horrible movement. "sO gOoD"

[supple dagger]

At minimum into the early stages of Warframe development

[frail nymph]

And at most perhaps even well beyond Titania's development

[subtle crown]

Proto-warframes that would allow them to walk around. The orokin wanted to weaponise the kids, she said no, she was turned into "mist and gore" then the proto-sentients were wheeled in right after.

[supple dagger]

Sentients are way before Warframes

[frail nymph]

All of which was long after the Sentients gained sentience and began warring with Orokin

[past kiln]

They didn’t need to weaponise the kids until the old war

[subtle crown]

So the detron crewman imprint is completely invalid then.

[frail nymph]

Yup, Proto-Warframes were still predated by the remote controlled bio drone versions of the frames like Excal and Rhino from what we know.

[frail nymph]

That doesn't say anything about Margulis or the Tenno though... How is it invalid?

[subtle crown]

"The greatest scholar of genetics" is Margulis.

[supple dagger]

She isn't

[craggy drum]

The Orokin killed her because she refused to kill the Tenno iirc

[frail nymph]

What?
Even Silvana, the closest thing to that description, was "the greatest infestation biologist."

"The greatest scholar of genetics" is a completely different archimedian who tried to propose the Crewman project

[past kiln]

Didn’t marge work with silvana in the old war as well with Titania? I think she did

[subtle crown]

She did.

It's covered in the silver grove quest.

[frail nymph]

I think that was the "legal" reason for her trial. With the actual reason for her trial being her refusal to turn children into war machines. And her reason for being killed was her apostacy, aka daring to speak badly about her gods, the Orokin.

[craggy drum]

And Sylvana and Margulis were working on Transference as a therapy for the kids, Warframes hadn’t been invented yet . It was only when it was later discovered that the Tenno could calm the Warframes that Transference was repurposed for remote controlling the Warframes

[frail nymph]

Nope

Magulis specifically called Silvana because she was the "greatest infestation biologist." So Warframes being an option for proxy control must have been before she was called. Basically Rhino prime codex must have been the progenitor of Margulis' idea to make the transference therapy of walking around etc.

That was only Silvana

[supple dagger]

Margulis wasn't on Earth

[frail nymph]

Pretty clearly, Margulis never worked with Silvana until the Tenno project.

[subtle crown]

Yeah, I was mistaken. I mixed things up.

[frail nymph]

Silvana was alone and failed

[frail nymph]

Although this does surprise me that the greatest infestation biologist somehow didn't know about warframes already before joining...

[past kiln]

Warframe project was a “””secret””” I thought

[craggy drum]

Yeah, but the plan wasn’t to weaponise the Tenno. It was to try and use Transference as a kind of therapy.

It was only later when the Tenno were discovered to be able to calm the Warframes, sometime after Margulis was dead, that Transference was repurposed with the Warframes as surrogate bodies

[frail nymph]

Then why did Silvana work on Titania while describing that Margulis is a victim and not was a victim?

[subtle crown]

It was a secret and also the proto-warframes basically had very little combat tech. They were to walk around and interact with the world.

[frail nymph]

Yeah I guess no essential void powers

[subtle crown]

The way the quest reads is Ballas didn't personally hand create all the frames. He designed some and had others build.

Like he designed Titania and had Silvana build it.

[frail nymph]

Honestly I doubt Ballas was anything more of a scientist than Elon Musk and SpaceX

[subtle crown]

Makes the most sense tbh.

[craggy drum]

That was after Margulis’ death and when Warframes were being put into production for Tenno use.

Ballas didn’t create every Warframe by hand, he outsourced and then claimed all the glory for himself.

[frail nymph]

How do you know that was after Margulis's death? Why does Silvana not say "She was a victim just as much as the children?

[subtle crown]

We have seen how he handles pressure... it's not good.

[supple dagger]

Ballas was head designer and approval for all the projects. He just didn't make them so himself

[past kiln]

Marge was described in the present tense in that line though

[craggy drum]

Because Margulis was dead when the Warframes were being made for Tenno to use.

They were in storage in the same lab that the proto Warframes were being kept.

[frail nymph]

"I don't blame Margulis, she's as much a victim as the children we're working with. "
Margulis is clearly described as working with the children along with Silvana. Also being a victim in the present Tense.

[frail nymph]

What? But where is the evidence for that? We know Margulis was alive and working with Silvana when she was making War machines.

The storage lab of Tenno in Rhino Prime codex was just a morgue-like storage for vaguely post-Zariman Tenno. The accidental control of Rhino is most likely where margulis got the idea of transference

[subtle crown]

Yeah, there was a period of time between Silvana and Margulis working together, Silvana leaving after Ballas has functional things to work with, then Margulis getting obliterated.

[frail nymph]

Oh Silvana left before Margulis was killed?

[subtle crown]

Yes.

With Ballas already having the helminth strain fully functional basically after Silvana finished Titania she stowed away on a cargo container with her apothics and returned to Earth.

To the point someone sent Dax after her to kill her.

[frail nymph]

Yeah but couldn't Margulis have died before that, technically?

[subtle crown]

Then a barely controlled Titania kind of laid waste to them.

If Margulis died before Silvana left there is zero mention of it anywhere.

[frail nymph]

Yeah that's what I was thinking as well. But I still don't rule it out just yet, even if it is a moot point

[frail nymph]

Either way, seems like Silvana was not very close to Margulis... She didn't dislike her, but she surprisingly doesn't talk much about her.

Especially given she's supposed to be a childhood hero of hers

[subtle crown]

So therapy becoming warfare.
Helminth strain refinement.
Making frames.
Ballas happy.
Testing transference on herself then going back to earth.

Keep in mind that Margulis was an archimidean geneticist and Silvana an archemidian in infestation manipulation.

2 highly trained professionals at the top of their fields working in the same lab.

[supple dagger]

It's never actually said what field Margulis was in

[subtle crown]

Aah, true. Only that she was an archimidean and a prominent geneticist. Not that the two are linked.

[frail nymph]

She was a genticist?