spoiler-chat

[rugged scarab]

Ot does state under status that Lyon is willing to assist with the family

Others not yet

[worn fjord]

That’s good

And this Roathe chat is fine, you’re supposed to do all 21 fights anyways. His anger is expected

Oh you agreed to reset with Roathe

In the end you have to go back on that promise. You’ll get another Roathe chat soon

Next daily reset

[rugged scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/bro-is-finished-cooked-finished-dog-closing-eyes-dog-with-eyes-closed-gif-8933440936102921947

Wait so I'm cooked or nah?

[worn fjord]

No. The next convo he will ask if you are going to reset or not

Drifter doesn’t have to reset (unless you want to go that route)

[obtuse gyro]

you just gotta still hammer him

[worn fjord]

When you change your mind in that convo “I’ve changed my mind” it’s going to trigger “RoatheFailUltimate”

At which point Lyon helps you out

in the next daily reset chat

Or Marie

[rugged scarab]

Is there anything else to gain besides loid going upstairs?

Also I presume fail ultimate references the ability to date him ( not concerned about doing so)

[worn fjord]

It potentially impacts the future story

[rugged scarab]

Shiiiii

[worn fjord]

Okay yea I was about to ask you that yea

But this is the only route for you to get out of the whole “will you reset drifter” convo

Since you made that promise

But yea you still have time to convince Roathe and Marie to reunite the family with Loid dw

[worn fjord]

I said potentially, don’t take my word for it 😂

[rugged scarab]

Got it, so screw that promise he finna get umbra'd. (Take them burning memories like a good smurf) and then hail marry the rest of it?

[worn fjord]

Also note there are cases where a visual bug will appear and you might miss a note about reuniting the family in any Triad profile note after you’ve convinced them (except Lyon’s) but dw it’s just a visual bug

[worn fjord]

Basically

And Lyon’s always there to help if you fail to convince the other two. You just have to explain the situation to him clearly

[rugged scarab]

Got it

[worn fjord]

There’s also a visual bug where Roathe’s convo gets rewritten to something like you confessing to him but it’s not true. You will still be Loved with Marie

[rugged scarab]

I'm currently not dating any of the triad

ATM just aoi

[worn fjord]

Oh right so yea you’ll still be Loved with Aoi dw

[rugged scarab]

Tho the prompt to date Marie is there, not lyon tho despite being at the same stages

Still not trying to just working how this all works

[worn fjord]

It depends on the convo, but yea it comes up later unless there’s a bug or something (there’s not so far)

[worn fjord]

Hope you dodge all the bugs

The other option is to just wait but it’s your call

The latest hotfix did add extra stuff to deal with the bugs so it won’t be as buggy for you if things go well

[solid otter]

I dodged most bugs cept for the very big last one

[worn fjord]

We made it through somehow (I had several heart attacks along the way ngl)

https://tenor.com/view/anothersdays-gif-8682649277694789514

[steep hemlock]

You know what this is for, Eleanor knows what this is for, My only questions is... will the glass table be sturdy enough? or does it not matter?

I want, no, I need to be able to use this pose, for science

[uncut solar]

I think a lot of these poses are emotes you can buy from syndicates

Won't hurt to check

[zenith jacinth]

Rule 4

[steep hemlock]

I'd be switching factions so fast if they were but sadly no, the poses you buy from syndicates are all mobile and reiljack related

[zenith jacinth]

The rj gestures usually include poses from the syndicate

[whole stratus]

It is pretty funny because the way they store your dialogue history is just with 'choice indecies' (similar to how the kimulacrum does, if you ever paid attention to the URL as you're chatting) but this means that if they're changing chats (e.g. adding choices) this might change the meaning of your chatlogs. However, this doesn't impact your status as your chemistry/booleans/counters are stored separately.

[steep hemlock]

why are all mobile or how you calla them, none of them are static like sit or kneel, and they are all used by the railjack crew of said syndicate

[zenith jacinth]

Because they're gestures not poses

And pretty much directly copied from the crewmates, who just loop them indefinitely

[steep hemlock]

yes, that's why I was convinced the one I want wasn't in the game

[bitter spoke]

OK I HAVE to ask this question

Was Kaya (nora protoframe) actually in Larunda all this time?

WAIT! This means that a Hex lover and Sanctum lover might be able to meet?

[uncut solar]

With her tech, yeah maybe

[cerulean kiln]

Sure just get loved with a Hex Proto and then take a Sanctum one into Backroom

Don’t even need to get loved with the Sanctum one Drifter can leave and Enter 1999 whenever they want

[hardy fossil]

I thought the daily reset would change this but nah my kim is totally broken

Been like this since the latest update

[floral badge]

Same although im pretty sure i dont have any dialogue left other than wjth Roathe

[pure merlin]

Yeah it's a bug, DE's working on it rn

[undone lodge]

No

She needed the Drifter (or technically the Operator could work but they haven’t interacted in canon yet) so even if she did pop up earlier on it’d have to be post-NW

And she doesn’t really have a reason to go further back anyway

[bitter spoke]

By "all this time" I didnt mean literally "So first God created the Heaven and Earth", just sometime around or after the Hex expansion got released xd

[undone lodge]

Oh

That wouldn’t be “all this time” but yeah, she’d be in Larunda soon after the Drifter went to 1999

[zenith jacinth]

But at the same time only when you help her leave

[bitter spoke]

I hate time travel

[zenith jacinth]

I love time travel

[cerulean kiln]

I’m going to time travel

[undone lodge]

I have time travelled

[balmy storm]

I will time travel

[zenith jacinth]

Time travel

[clear sparrow]

I am currently time traveling. Unfortunately, it's forward at one second per second.

[pure merlin]

I am time travel

[glass plover]

man, marie is adorable
where the hell did roathe get the idea that shes a freak in bed XD

[uncut solar]

i ate time travel

[cerulean kiln]

Probably for the best tbh

[pure merlin]

What would it taste like, I wonder

[uncut solar]

like past mistakes

and future errors

[pure merlin]

Sounds about right

[cerulean kiln]

At least someone bothered eating it

I ain’t dealing with all those mistakes

[cinder marten]

stuff still broken yo

echoes update will fix everything trust

[deft mist]

Youll be suprised how many sweethearts can be a freak

[uncut solar]

and how far the religious indoctrination goes

[deft mist]

Well daddy issues plus raised in a strict catholic

Yeah

It goes deep

[lofty girder]

I mean, Aoi is such a sweetheart yet she likes handcuffs and is either a screamer or makes you scream

[glass plover]

wouldnt know, honestly
Ive never dated XD

[zenith jacinth]

Can confirm

[plush swan]

I dunno... with Aoi's magnetic powers, handcuffs might as well be delicate silk.

[plush swan]

I think one of the big frustrating things about KIM is that, when you pick a line, you don't know what you will be able to say after.

[haughty pier]

Increase the security by using wooden or plastic cuffs

[plush swan]

Tie them up with rope

[cobalt scroll]

So iheard that Roathe will remember about the reset, why mine does not?

[cerulean kiln]

Bugs being bugs

[plush swan]

I think you need to have gotten a certain number of voice calls or smth?

[cobalt scroll]

I got all of it

Maybe I should wait for next daily reset

[plush swan]

At 21, his first convo should start with:

Roathe: "I really must commend you on your audacity! Truly, are you certain you are not an Orokin in disguise? Perhaps hiding your cerulean skin to keep from alerting the others?!"

Below 21, it starts with:

Roathe: "The Void-born anomaly. "The Drifter." The Usurper. Finally, we speak at last. Come. The Devil has a proposal to make."

[cobalt scroll]

Yeah but that is his normal intro

What I meant here is, ppl said that he will know that we reset him

[cerulean kiln]

Yep

[subtle bolt]

whats this pink stuff on my neck? i forgot

[fierce kiln]

helminth cyst, you get it from touching other players with it or a nidus frame, its purely cosmetic but you can either use it with a kubrow egg to incubate a helminth charger or remove it in the helminth room

[scenic scaffold]

Can be used to make helminth charger

[plush swan]

If you get the "cerulean skin" line, then all paths in that convo lead to setting the boolean RoatheKnowsReset, which is referenced in various convos, and indicates that Roathe has figured out that you messed with his memories.

[cobalt scroll]

Cerulean?

[plush swan]

This one

[cobalt scroll]

Oh-

So I messed up-

Wait no-

[plush swan]

Note that it's not "do Descendia 21 times", it's "listen to all 21 voice messages about Roathe's past" (HellStory), which requires 21 Descendias and maybe some other stuff

[cobalt scroll]

I got all of his VMs in the log

I did that before reset him

And after chatting with him post reset, I redo the boss fight 21 time

[worn fjord]

Technically he should know right away. It will also activate RoatheResetEdgeCase boolean if it somehow doesn’t count all 21

[worn fjord]

How did the entire convo go?

[cobalt scroll]

Just like how the first time meeting him

[cobalt scroll]

And this note is the same

[worn fjord]

Then I wonder if DE is helping out there. I know they mentioned this in an announcement so

But you didn’t contact support and this just happened without their help, so it’s good I guess?

[cobalt scroll]

Good?

[worn fjord]

Yea it’s all good

Just do the conversations as usual

[cobalt scroll]

But like, I would like to see the “Of course he knew” note

[worn fjord]

Your first chat with him didn’t activate RoatheKnowsReset Boolean so it won’t show up on the profile note

[cobalt scroll]

But how to get that?

[dreamy vessel]

What happening?

[worn fjord]

The RoatheKnowsReset boolean can trigger again in future conversations. The next one in the rank would be “I find it rather hysterical that Euleria and Petros really..” this one

[cobalt scroll]

ohh thanks for the info

[worn fjord]

KIM chat shenanigans lol

[dreamy vessel]

Oh cool

[pastel pasture]

what if the tau update comes and its jsut an empty star chart. no enemies at all. throughly abandoned.

You load into the Mission and Lotus immediately goes "Mission complete. get to extraction."

[pliant orchid]

The idea of resetting the chat with those three guys is just... ugh...

I just hope whatever they are fixing, won't force us all to re-do this mess all over again

[real niche]

Anything short would be idiotic. My issue is that they expect someone to reset as an option right now as if they'd know to turn on the Play All Conversations thing so they don't get stopped again and do that for a whole month just to complete it again

[pure merlin]

Would be crazy and sad also

[uncut solar]

Would've been a funny twist to then actually proceed into the real story

[livid glen]

If it makes it any better you can ask support to reset it without triggering Roathe.

Unless you meant you just don't like the conversations/bugs, in which case yeah, fair enough. (Although I personally enjoyed the greater nuisance than the Hex or Roundtable which the Triad brought. The fact I haven't gotten any major bug yet probably helped).

[pliant orchid]

I'm not even sure myself if I'm bugged or not. All I know is that Roathe's menu hints that I must beat him up. I already got ||Lloid's cutscene|| so not sure what to do from here and if restarting is actually worth at this point.

[livid glen]

Do you have the "Exorcist" honoria?

If not you haven't killed him 21 times and that's possibly the problem. If yes, then it's bugged.

[pliant orchid]

I have it... then looks like I'm in for a very annoying month.

Oh, well... or maybe I can simply just beat him up again for the heck of it and see what happens in the future fixes.

[livid glen]

Yeah, oof. Hopefully the hotfixes will patch that.

[pliant orchid]

I have too much going on right now to bother with a reset. At best, I can also wait for a proper guide since I have to re-do the whole thing with Flare too.

[livid glen]

You can always use the Kimulacrum, I suppose.

[clear sparrow]

I wish I had known that the Contact Support option would be a thing before I did my reset to fix the softlock I got where Roathe would just...never talk again. Not anathema. Just...he starts the conversation but never finishes it.

[pliant orchid]

"Kimulacrum"? What's that?

[clear sparrow]

But the reset has been done for a week or so now at least. Ah well.

Two weeks, actually. And it's actually interesting navigating the fact that Roathe knows about the resets, so silver linings?

[worn fjord]

You have the same issue as three others on here. They did the Loid cutscene as well despite that profile note. I think in this case it’s a visual bug so it’s best to wait for a hotfix than reset

[pliant orchid]

I guess I'll play the wait game for now. I'll invest it by farming.

[worn fjord]

As mentioned in #game-updates DE is aware of this particular issue and it will be addressed in a future hotfix

[worn fjord]

Have fun farming!

[pliant orchid]

Oh, I will! 😈

[balmy storm]

Oh so that’s why it’s the biggest arc
We’re gonna look everywhere to see if anything survived!

[zenith jacinth]

Website, archives ALL proto comvos

[pliant orchid]

Ah, thank you for telling me!

[urban palm]

Hi! Has anyone who has reached out to support for a flag-less KIM reset for the Triad received help yet? Not in a rush, giving things a pause while the bugs work out, just anxious that maybe I sent my request to the wrong category or something.

[pure merlin]

Is it a ticket you've sent ?

[urban palm]

Yes! I submitted it about 24 hours ago and don't expect a response yet; was just wondering if anyone who had maybe sent before me had received help yet and how they sent it in case I did it wrong

I've never had to submit a ticket before 😭

[pure merlin]

Well ig if someone did that, they could tell you, but they have a LOT of tickets right now, so yeah, maybe they'll fix your issue and won't necessarily answer you, they're busy af rn

[worn fjord]

I’m guessing the ticket category would be under Quests > Old Peace

But like what Madness said, they have a lot of tickets to go through, so it will take a while

[pure merlin]

Personally received so many apology emails concerning my ticket lol. They've been flooded with tickets

• all the bug reports in the forum and on discord

[worn fjord]

Yea there’s so many reports to go through

[next ginkgo]

oh roathe is not giving me dialogue he already has before, like "hey let's get loid to walk upstairs" and giving me the option to confess feelings, I already got the family reunion and loved status, idk what the game thinks xd

[balmy storm]

Yeah things are very buggy still from what I’ve been hearing

You can reset fully without spoilers via support but ngl I’m just gonna wait to do it in-game til we know things are fixed

[next ginkgo]

i mean, im just not gonna do that convo, I've already had every flags and the ending i want from each so it's fine

funnily enough I got that while trouble shooting a graphical issue i had with the sanctum missions since whispers released where there'll be a room with broken textures and an absolutely massive eye frying lens flare flash bang if bloom is enabled at all, and even disabled it's hard to navigate with the broken texture. Still can't find the reason for it, no graphics setting has fixed it so I'm suspecting GPU drivers or shader cache now

[pine wolf]

Impossible choice time

[balmy storm]

Replaying it?

[pine wolf]

No.. first time.

Im feeling op/lotus. It feels like her arc to complete

Still dont know how she came back tho

Might buy marg skin later on

[cerulean kiln]

The choice doesn't matter

[pine wolf]

But wally said they do 😭

[hearty pendant]

yea operator or drifter just changes the dialogue you get for the next gameplay sections
the later choice does matter though

[pine wolf]

Not like im getting my duviri swords back. I was really kicking booty with op just before drifter came in too

No mote upgrades

Sheer skill from my youth in conclave

And some nazarin cheese

[zenith jacinth]

Damn

[fair sable]

I've reached this conversation two days ago but nothing's come up since. Does anyone else know what's going on?

[golden tulip]

Does anyone know if I have to redo the 21 Descendia if I reset the Triad? I still have all the voice notes and his voice lines in Descendia are they ones you get after 21?

[balmy storm]

It’s just for the fight ahead, you get some unique lines but thats it atm

[balmy storm]

You do not!
Once you do em and get the VMs you’re golden

Just get all 21 VMs first before resetting

Kim is in a buggy state so just be careful

[golden tulip]

oh, interesting because when I reset I was expecting the first convo to be the >21 convo but it was the normal one

[zenith jacinth]

So much jank, and for what? Scuffed poly consent convos that go against some established character traits?

[balmy storm]

I apologize as I do not have an answer but I love your choice in glyph 👀

[balmy storm]

It aint even poly

[golden tulip]

i hope resetting wasnt a mistake 😭 i avoided the bugs the first run through but I want Redeemed Roathe

[zenith jacinth]

Harem

[balmy storm]

Like its just cheating and then “can we open relationship” and they’re forced to say yes

[balmy storm]

You can reset via support if you need to

[hearty pendant]

doesn't always load right away, unfortunately. the VMs should load in after the first chat if they didn't before, though

[balmy storm]

Resets in ~4 hours

[golden tulip]

they're above the first convo in history so I assume theyre loaded. Its just really weird because theyre also still upstairs so the whole convo was so out of place. like sure okay ill make a deal with you to get the butler to go upstairs.... even tho hes already there

[livid glen]

Personally I chose the villain path (the fact it was just one convo option that decided was interesting but eh, whatever) and honestly I'm yet to see in any way how that is "worse" other than him wanting to kill the family.

I haven't finished all the dialogue options yet though so maybe it gets worse later, I dunno.

[golden tulip]

i also found it interesting looking through kimulacrum that one or two wrong dialouge choices decides it

[pure merlin]

Have you gotten a message from Loid ?

[hearty pendant]

entrati r5?

[humble orchid]

Can someone confirm or deny this?

[livid glen]

||Jade was turned into a warframe while already pregnant, so it wasn't the warframe proper that got pregnant||

[zenith jacinth]

It's his wife

[humble orchid]

||Ahh||

[livid glen]

||Semi-related but I will always find it funny that the Operator technically experienced child birth via Jade||

[humble orchid]

Then why did it have a warning about ||mommy issues||?

[zenith jacinth]

...childbirth

[livid glen]

||Child-birth. The mother (Jade) dies||

||It's mother issue from the perspective of the baby, not Stalker||

[balmy storm]

||well, contractions, idk if they stuck around for the birth part lol||

[flat magnet]

how did you come to the conclusion it was his mum?

[humble orchid]

Ohh I thought it was ||Stalker's mother and the child's mother/grandmother||
Glad to know there's no ||incestual babies|| in this game

[zenith jacinth]

Yk I'm realizing that with how bare-bones the quest is, it's definitely story setup

[balmy storm]

||wait nvm I may have forgotten how it works I’m tired-||

[humble orchid]

Cause of the ||mother issues|| warning

I understand now though

[flat magnet]

ah

[livid glen]

||I guess it's not real child birth 'cause usually you don't dissolve into a fine mist when a baby is born, but yeah, atleast the birthing mini game.||

[zenith jacinth]

Instantly going to that conclusion is slightly concerning

[humble orchid]

Listen man I barely understand half of this lore; it's not the most backwards I've been

[flat magnet]

the real question now though, is ballas willing to make a prime babyframe inside of prime jade to be petty?

[zenith jacinth]

The child wasn't supposed to be born so no

[flat magnet]

it would still work, permanently encasing a primed babyframe inside a warframe to show that it will never be born just to be petty doesnt seem too far fetched for ballas

[zenith jacinth]

Waste of resources, and priming was an honour

[primal merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/lavos-warfame-warframe-lavos-warframe-wf-gif-17512526456482330838

And then there's the champ who declared himself worthy enough.

[zenith jacinth]

Yea

He wouldn't've been primed by ballas, dude nuked an entire prison including a few orokin

[pure merlin]

Lavos the GOAT

[flat magnet]

alpha mentality

[primal merlin]

If given the chance I will prime that baby myself. Gonna feed him so much energy from the death orbs.

Give him the biggest energy pool you've ever seen.

[steep totem]

I wonder if he would have been primed by Albrecht...
probably not, but it produces a funny mental image

[zenith jacinth]

Lavos is among the phenomenal five that make up my mains for a reason

[pure merlin]

He primed himself, like the goat he is

[flat magnet]

mans gonna somehow fit primed flow and flow on at the same time

[zenith jacinth]

Phenom- phenoma- phenomnoma- uh

[flat magnet]

if anyone can do it its lavos

[steep totem]

Archon Flow too, probs

[zenith jacinth]

He needs no energy

My lavos build approaches 400% ability strength, dude is JACKED

[primal merlin]

That baby will become flow itself. Perfectly stable energy management at 1% efficiency.

[steep totem]

0.1%

[pure merlin]

How much damage do you do on the 4th ? 👀

[zenith jacinth]

Enough

[pure merlin]

😔

[steep totem]

Fireworks

[primal merlin]

Whatever the 4th doesn't finish, Valence Formation will clean up.

[zenith jacinth]

When I test in simulacrum all that remains is ashes

[pure merlin]

Nuclear bomb Lavos

[zenith jacinth]

Either that or the ridiculous amount of procs

Alt fire despacedo is mandatory with lavos

No joke I actually paid plat to rename my cedo and cedo prime to despacedo (prime)

[primal merlin]

Who else is in your phenomenal five? I've got Lavos, Styanax, Ash, Inaros, and Atlas up there.

[pure merlin]

You should drop the Lavos build 👀

[zenith jacinth]

Lavos, grendel, sevagoth, baruuk... uhh the 5th kinda changes a lot

Ah right hydroid

[zenith jacinth]

Honestly, my fashion is more impressive than my builds

[primal merlin]

Yeah I get that. Inaros's spot kinda fluctuates. I've been playing around with Elemental Sandstorm and an 8-status Keratinos.

And it sort of reminds me of when Vauban wasn't gimped into the dirt lol

[zenith jacinth]

My inaros is built around utilizing the sand kavat cap boost from the pocket sand augment with his 4

[pure merlin]

Now I'm curious about the fashion too

Do drop it 👀

[uncut solar]

with... vial rush

[primal merlin]

Cats are good. I just like the comedy of hitting 10 stacks of arcane impetus by pressing 2 on Inaros lmao. It's become actually viable after I subsumed roar over pocket sand.

[pure merlin]

Roar's nice with Inaros ? 👀

[primal merlin]

Specifically because Elemental Sandstorm turns his 2 into a giant ball of status procs.

Also because I sometimes feel guilty playing a frame that doesn't have some support factor to it.

[pure merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-star-noted-notes-gif-26231953

[zenith jacinth]

Mmmm

[uncut solar]

he... he doesnt even need more than slightly above base str to break lvl cap enemies. Why

[primal merlin]

The gameplay is literally to just move around the map while sucking people into the sandstorm dome. Mecha Set helps spread around those statuses to everything trapped well within the radius. Roar gives a solid damage boost to the procs themselves and to your squad. Anything that survives gets dropped into a tight group that dies to any AoE with gundition overload mods.

[zenith jacinth]

Because I didn't need energy or efficiency

[primal merlin]

Also you're invulnerable during sandstorm so it's braindead as hell lmao.

[uncut solar]

thats-

[zenith jacinth]

Normally like 3 slots are lost to managing energy in my builds

[uncut solar]

tahts not how he-

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitten-cat-crying-kitten-crying-05starrynight-gif-10141647709992578610

[pure merlin]

That's interesting af
Would you be fine sharing the build directly ?

[zenith jacinth]

Oh but it is

[uncut solar]

thts not at all hw his kit

i am going to cry, you amde me cyr

[zenith jacinth]

I've been using lavos for over 3 years, I think I know how he works

[uncut solar]

he has shown the capacity to change and not be a dumb brute

but can you

[zenith jacinth]

He also NUKED THE TOP OFF A MOUNTAIN

[uncut solar]

not with brute force

[zenith jacinth]

With abilities

[uncut solar]

he has no real abilities, he has tools that he carries

[primal merlin]

Pardon my broke self never having the self control to afford rank 10 primed/archon mods. Second image is the Keratinos build. The riven doesn't matter, I put it on because it gives my stupid claws a 3.6m range.

[zenith jacinth]

You know. The thing affected by ability strength

[uncut solar]

they dont eat his energy

🫡

[zenith jacinth]

I know, you're repeating my lore back to me

I am lavos man

[uncut solar]

i know, you just-

yeah this makes perfect sense why he is played by like 5 people and 3 of them onl use valence formation

[primal merlin]

Archon Stretch is only there because the Keratinos fit in an Elec proc btw.

[pure merlin]

Lol thank you
I'll check out the keratinos too, although I never really base warframes around weapons and weapons around warframes, I just like to have my cedo go RATATATATA with anyone

[zenith jacinth]

And I am far less brutish. Valence is an afterthought

[uncut solar]

by the sound of it there are many things that are

[zenith jacinth]

No, just valence and the slight efficiency deficiency

[uncut solar]

but hey, as long as it works

[zenith jacinth]

I have to aim my cedo at the ground to hit enemies in front of me

[pure merlin]

What 👀

[zenith jacinth]

And on the opposite end there's my aeolak with a -112% recoil riven

[primal merlin]

It's both form and function. The inherent viral proc on the weapon won't merge with other elements since it's already fused. And it lets me run the Eukar claw skin, which lets my Inaros look like it has Scarab claws for the Egyptian fit.

[zenith jacinth]

Fire rate and no recoil decrease

[pure merlin]

That's one good looking boi

[primal merlin]

He looks so noble but he just spins like a beyblade the entire mission.

[pure merlin]

That's why he's the best warframe ever made 👀

[primal merlin]

I will say, I unexpectedly had an easy time with Steel Path Legacyte Capture even though this is mostly a crowd control build (though Lex Prime Incarnon carries for multiple reasons).

Roar really does fix a lot of problems considering you're already getting finishers even without Inaros's 1.

[pure merlin]

His 1st is a little useless too, so it's better to just replace it

[primal merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/king-of-the-hill-dale-gribble-pocket-sand-pocket-sand-gif-3699662

I will miss this.

[pure merlin]

Might actually only be good to keep for captura lmao

[primal merlin]

Though technically his 4 has double pocket sand AND cats. So it's fine.

[pure merlin]

Still sometimes missing to nomnom the enemies and having grineers follow me around 😔

[dreamy vessel]

What talk about?

[pure merlin]

Inaros

[zenith jacinth]

Ok but consider; more cats if you keep pocket sand for the augment

[dreamy vessel]

Oh the sand guy

[zenith jacinth]

Enter sand man

[pure merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/kids-predicaments-beach-sand-gif-3823779

[dreamy vessel]

Metallica!

[primal merlin]

More cats good, but that's also why I play Khora.

[zenith jacinth]

-# or motorhead

[dreamy vessel]

Ya

[zenith jacinth]

I have made that joke about inaros so many times

[dreamy vessel]

Makes sense

[pure merlin]

Inaros could take down Wally solo 100%

[zenith jacinth]

A few frames have puns/references I regularly call them

[primal merlin]

Of course Roathe has also kinda taken the position of beast master from Khora because 3 demons by default that can turn into exploding ghosts is way better than Venari unfortunately.

[dreamy vessel]

Such as?

[zenith jacinth]

Well if we give him enough time, yes. Erosion

[zenith jacinth]

Uuhhh remembering them on the fly is hard..

[dreamy vessel]

When you actually paid attention in class

[zenith jacinth]

Baruuk is the paci-fist, taken directly from the file name of his exalted

[dreamy vessel]

Ok

[zenith jacinth]

Obv grendel is the hyperaggressive puking meatball

[dreamy vessel]

Makes sense

[zenith jacinth]

Roach is the protoframe of urinal

[dreamy vessel]

lol

[pure merlin]

Non-related to the current talk, I wonder who will next die in Warframe in the next quests. Albrecht seems obvious, but I don't think he'd be literally the next one

[zenith jacinth]

Spooky scary skeleton is obvious

[primal merlin]

Wally merely adopted the dusty aesthetic via conceptual embodiment. Inaros was born in it, molded by it.

Also Inaros can summon Exodia with ancient Martian Egyptian magic.

[dreamy vessel]

Uhhh, idk.

[zenith jacinth]

Rly

[dreamy vessel]

Not for me

[zenith jacinth]

Xaku

[dreamy vessel]

Oh ya. Never played them

[primal merlin]

Xaku is also the Holy Spirit after the prime.

[zenith jacinth]

Can't remember any other joke frame names

But limbo accidentally forgot to multiply before addition and gaster'd himself

[primal merlin]

I jokingly call Ash the first trans warframe because of the abandoned original design.

[zenith jacinth]

Dude mathed slightly wrong and turned into dust

Now I leave to listen to enter sandman bc it's stuck in my head

Oh. Midnight.

Dam.

[primal merlin]

Tbh the highest person on the chopping block is probably Hunhow.

[pure merlin]

NO PLEASE NO

[primal merlin]

You know it to be true, he's already waiting to die.

[pure merlin]

Ahem, I meant, cool, he gets what's coming to him

😭

I can fix him

[primal merlin]

I mean his wife's dead, his daughter disowned him basically, his son's a zombie, and his roommate is a former dax who still sort of misses the Orokin and is a single dad.

[dreamy vessel]

Not hi how!

Hunhow*

[pure merlin]

But he could have the chance to go back to Tau and help us fight Wally

[primal merlin]

Frankly now that we're going back to Tau I strongly assume he'll have a bigger story role and it might lead to his death because he's sort of a product of a dead age if we rekindle peace with the sentients.

[pure merlin]

Yeaaah, that's what I was thinking too, I don't know why, I expect a sacrifice

[dreamy vessel]

The sacrifice? Umbra mentioned?

[primal merlin]

It'd be some big poetic thing. The only way to restore proper individuality to the sentients would be to offer up the mentality of one of the hiveminds. Hunhow will have died as he lived, a farmer. A new bloom of flowers will grow where he dies.

Or something.

[pure merlin]

Hunhow dies to recreate the same kind of things that was in the xenofloras to free the sentients again

Ultimately proving he was always one of the good guys

[primal merlin]

Well

One of the better guys at least lmao.

[pure merlin]

And Daklo shows up and insults him, the end

[primal merlin]

Honestly once he gave me Nataruk all was forgiven in my books.

Like if someone tried to assassinate me but then gave me a handheld anti-aircraft railgun with infinite ammo in the shape of a cool energy bow after that didn't work? Good apology.

[pure merlin]

He was willing to help save his daughter

And open his son's eyes, although it was too late for Erra really

[steep totem]

You say Enter Sandman
Only thing I can hear is Mr Sandman
Courtesy of the Golden Girls

[zenith jacinth]

He was

[zenith jacinth]

Ugh

[pure merlin]

On his grave it will be written "Father of the year"

[zenith jacinth]

Father of the yeh

[primal merlin]

Now

Despite me thinking he'll die around Tau

I do think it'd be super fun to at least have him as our navigator in place of Lotus for a few missions. Because we haven't had enough space grandpa guidance.

[zenith jacinth]

Wait is your pfp from don't look outside

[steep totem]

Would be fun
Just like it was in the New War

[pure merlin]

Have a look outside, it's....beautiful

[zenith jacinth]

Only if it includes banter

[primal merlin]

Also if they could give me the giant sentient dog as a kaithe skin that'd be great thank you

[zenith jacinth]

Amar

That was amar

[steep totem]

As a Kaithe skin?

[pure merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/warframe-the-old-peace-warframe-adis-adis-truth-bloom-warframe-sentient-gif-7868842728966336566

Goodest boi

[primal merlin]

Doesn't have to be Amar given current circumstances.

[zenith jacinth]

But it was amar

[zenith jacinth]

Too big for kubrow

[steep totem]

Bloom-Guardian Amar

[primal merlin]

I know it's Amar, I'm speaking broadly that I want his design as a mount.

Not specifically Amar as a mount.

[pure merlin]

Man, imagine if when we arrive to Tau, we get a new mount and it's a big wolf like Amar, same specie and everything

[primal merlin]

And I know it'd be weird as a Kaithe skin, I just don't want another new vehicle right now and Kaithes are the only other quadrapeds here.

[zenith jacinth]

...the species is sentient

[steep totem]

Sez you
I've seen Kubrow that can stand on all fours and look a Warframe in the eye

[pure merlin]

No I know, but like the same type as Amar

[zenith jacinth]

And amar could look a warframe in the eye while it's standing on another warframe

Like, he was massive

[steep totem]

Fair
But Kubrow aren't all tiny, was my point

Hmm
More Sentient Beasts...

[chilly pine]

archon amar is a warframe-sentient hybrid, as for amar (as seen in the quest) could see that happening, could be fun to see new sentient types

[steep totem]

That could be fun
Especially if it turns out they weren't all made into Archons

[zenith jacinth]

Sentient elk

[steep totem]

YES

[primal merlin]

Just asking for someone to stick its head to Oberon.

[zenith jacinth]

Oberon is a goat

[pure merlin]

Yeah I know lol
I don't expect Tau to be completely empty, if the types of sentients we're the most familiar with were able to reproduce, i'm sure there's a big wolf somewhere waiting for us 👀

[zenith jacinth]

With very spindly arms

[worn fjord]

Oberon mentioned, I have appeared

[zenith jacinth]

Wth

[primal merlin]

Technically more of a satyr, but his horns are more like an elk's than a goat's.

[pure merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/jacob-twilight-loca-where-have-you-been-loca-where-the-hell-have-you-been-loca-gif-22826028

[proven wagon]

What the heck

[worn fjord]

Lmao

[steep totem]

Wonder if there's a term for that

[zenith jacinth]

Hek? Where

[steep totem]

https://tenor.com/view/wat-warframe-wat-vay-hek-wat-vay-hek-what-warframe-what-gif-12442807

[primal merlin]

For Elks? I think Cervidae?

[zenith jacinth]

Cervulite..

Tagfer

[steep totem]

No, I mean
A Satyr-like creature, but it's deer/elk instead of goat

[worn fjord]

That’d be interesting

[primal merlin]

Closest thing I know is Wendigos, but that's a lot less friendly.

Very appropriate for the Archon aesthetic though.

[hearty pendant]

Faun

[steep totem]

...I thought that was Roman

[primal merlin]

I mean you did ask for deer/elk, not necessarily greek.

Though I think they are greek.

[steep totem]

True
But I was under the impression that Fauns were basically Roman Satyrs

[primal merlin]

It's one of those things that got conflated with other mythologies to smooth out the merging of the cultures I believe.

Seems they were originally ghosts.

[hearty pendant]

they are, just with more.. variance. instead of just goat

[steep totem]

oh

That's actually really interesting

[primal merlin]

Lot of weird amalgamations come about with cultural assimilation.

[steep totem]

But anyways
It would be cool if we had other Sentient Beasts

[worn fjord]

Would a Kirin count? Though it’s mostly a mix of deer and dragon

[hearty pendant]

especially anything to do with ancient greece and rome

[fair sable]

Nope, nothing. Inbox is also quiet.

[zenith jacinth]

Kirin are essentially unicorns, and originated as a very poor interpretation of giraffes

[worn fjord]

Oh giraffes? Interesting..

[zenith jacinth]

I'm a mythology nerd

[worn fjord]

I love mythology too, although that part about giraffes I didn’t know lol

[zenith jacinth]

It's very funny

[primal merlin]

Unicorns also being a comical misinterpretation of rhinos

[zenith jacinth]

Yeh

[pure merlin]

And you are rank 5 with the Entrati Family ?

[worn fjord]

I think I remember reading that somewhere 😂

[zenith jacinth]

Love it when horribly badly interpreted descriptions create a future mythological creature

[primal merlin]

There's also the mammoth/elephant whose skull somehow became the basis for the myth of the cyclops because that's just how archaeology be sometimes.

And now that I'm thinking about it we don't have a dinosaur warframe.

[fair sable]

Yep, also rank 5. Family rank and all that.

[worn fjord]

Brachiosaurus Warframe incoming

[primal merlin]

Warframe 1,999,000 BC

[pure merlin]

Just in case, you've also got Marie and Lyon to help you reunite Loid right ?

[fair sable]

One would think with these convos in my history it would've counted...

[fair sable]

So it LOOKS like I convinced everyone

There IS one thign that might've thrown a wrench into proceedings though: I'm dating Marie, got there via conversations

[pure merlin]

I don't think dating Marie would fibble the whole thing

[zenith jacinth]

Yea

[pure merlin]

Though, you don't seem to have the note that says she agreed to help

[worn fjord]

Did you have this convo with Marie yet — “Have you thought any more about how to convince Loid to talk to the Entrati family upstairs?”

[fair sable]

That's the funny thing... it never came up at all.

[worn fjord]

..damn that’s the only Marie convo hmm

[pure merlin]

That might be why you're not getting a message from Loid lol

Are you Anathema with Marie ?

[fair sable]

Nope, Loved.

[worn fjord]

Then.. Lyon should be there to help with that. It should start like so — It seems you have managed to go quite awry with Marie. How have you managed that?

[fair sable]

No Lyon was like 'Roathe is dragging his feet' even though in the very same day Roathe is agreeing to do it

[pure merlin]

Sounds like a bug

[fair sable]

That's my thought.

[worn fjord]

Did you do Lyon’s chat before Roathe’s that day?

[pure merlin]

Can you show Lyon's and Roathe's notes aswell?

[fair sable]

On the same day Lyon was sayign Roathe is 'dragging his feet':

[pure merlin]

I thiiiink you were supposed to agree to his help

[worn fjord]

Wait why did you say no to his help

[fair sable]

That was the same day, sooooooooooo

Both messages came simultaneously and contradictind each othe

[hearty pendant]

probably the day of the hotfix, lyon's convo was not supposed to appear

doing it might've messed something up

[pure merlin]

I don't want to say bs, but I feel like simultaneously you both fibbled up and got a bug

[fair sable]

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[worn fjord]

Seems like it yea

[fair sable]

C'mon, I don't want to do it all over again! I feel bad having to talk down Marie again!

[pure merlin]

I meaaan, you could always send a ticket, and wait and see what DE tells you, or wait for another hotfix hoping it maaaybe fixes some things up?

Kim is still pretty bugged, if you're lucky on a next hotfix, it'll unblock your situation

[fair sable]

I don't think I've ever sent a ticket before. Never really had a reason to

[pure merlin]

You want help with that?

[hearty pendant]

i still need to send a ticket for mountain's edge lmfao

[worn fjord]

https://support.warframe.com/hc/en-us/articles/37529862086157-What-information-should-I-give-when-submitting-a-ticket

[worn fjord]

After reading through that, you can login here and submit a ticket - https://support.warframe.com/

[pure merlin]

What are you waiting for ? 😭

[hearty pendant]

dunno tbh. an actual want for it ig
Sun & Moon isn't a particularly interesting weapon for me to go n get it again from simaris, so until there's another weapon that uses Mountain's Edge or i really feel like completing my mod collection, its not something i'm concerned about

[pure merlin]

Yeah, that's fair af honestly

[vocal geyser]

wait… in order to get the special fixed ending, do i need to be rank 5 with the entrati family??

[hearty pendant]

mhm

[pure merlin]

Yes

[vocal geyser]

BRUH 💔

[fair sable]

GEH I'll have to hope the hotfix addresses this or I'm stuck with like no closure

[vocal geyser]

no wonder 😭

[pure merlin]

Send a ticket and wait for the devstream, they'll most likely mention a lot of the issues that occured

[worn fjord]

Time to run those Tier 3 Iso Vault bounties

[hearty pendant]

at least they made it easier
even though mother tokens are still the easiest to farm

[worn fjord]

With SP you get even more Mother tokens

[vocal geyser]

oh yuh nvm i’m on that

[worn fjord]

You got this Tenno 🫡

[pure merlin]

Time to check if I got two oldies back together

[worn fjord]

Oh right, daily reset is here..time flies

[primal merlin]

Thankfully the Entrati family is the sort of unique syndicate where you can technically farm all the standing you need in a single day. Just can't turn it in all at once.

[worn fjord]

Daily standing cap sighhh

I think I’m done with all the syndicates now

Except Ventkids

[primal merlin]

Done everything except Conclade myself. Because I like myself.

[worn fjord]

Oh yea that too 😭

[somber mason]

I'm getting this conversation today even though I reunited Loid with the family yesterday.

[primal merlin]

Suppose that hotfix needed to cool off a bit.

[pure merlin]

Success 🎉 (?)

[primal merlin]

Check their profile, you'll know for sure lol

[pure merlin]

I mean, they're not together YET

[somber mason]

If you get this conversation, you're on the right path.

[pure merlin]

They're going on a date, they'll be together tomorrow if Kimulacrum is right

[somber mason]

I wonder how many people reset the Devil's Triad for nothing because they thought Roathe hated them, when they just needed to wait a few days after the 21 Descendia fights.

[pure merlin]

Judging by the amount of people that asked for help, a LOT

[somber mason]

I thought I was in that boat too, but I was so sure I made the correct choices that I decided to wait a bit before resetting. I was right.

[primal merlin]

It would be Roathe of all people who requires the most multidimensional intervention (dev fixes) to chill out

[pure merlin]

Imo, resetting is never the right choice, unless you're sure it's not a bug and you fibbled up

And currently, it seems to be essentially bugs

[primal merlin]

Tbh I sort of resolved to never reset because it doesn't feel right in general. So these KIM chats have been nervewracking fun sometimes lol

Thankfully I've not screwed any up yet. But Roathe seems intent to leave a stain on the record unless the gods above have anything to say about it.

[pure merlin]

Roathe's playing hard to get

[civic ore]

as a devil should

[primal merlin]

I suppose even a redeemed Orokin is still among the most deeply frustrating types of people to get invested with. By virtue of being Orokin.

[pure merlin]

A spicy, no memories, devil orokin

[pastel pasture]

EXCUSE ME?

[pure merlin]

LMFAO

[primal merlin]

Can you imagine someone dodging a bootycall by cranking everything out at mach speed

[pastel pasture]

DE are the guys who removed Kaya swearing. I can not believe they actually put that joke in

[rancid pilot]

Oh that's what it meant, I thought it was something else ngl

[primal merlin]

Thankfully it's not that dark.

[pure merlin]

Amir is a freak what the fibbles

I didn't expect that from him

[rancid pilot]

That's the neat part, they are ALL freaks

[primal merlin]

I'm less surprised by him being a freak and more surprised that he just told us that bluntly lmao.

[pure merlin]

I KNOW, those backroom voice lines videos

[copper scroll]

ok i finally got roathe to talk to me again what do i do so i dont mess it up?

[pure merlin]

I heard Lettie is a sadist too

[rancid pilot]

When I first heard the Aoi line about using the metal in the back rooms, I knew I chose right

[pure merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/tf-you-said-gif-20255278

[pastel pasture]

be yourself ❤️ (you can post specific chats if youre nervous)

[primal merlin]

Just how much she wears her heart on her sleeve makes me feel deeply at ease.

But also yes there are many toys she seems to want to recreate and that's fantastic

[pure merlin]

So Amir.. does whatever he does, Lettie's a sadist, Aoi like toys

Is Arthur the only normal freak out of those people ?

[pastel pasture]

Arthur likes bikes. does that count

[primal merlin]

He likes to ride, noted.

[pure merlin]

That makes him even better

...

[pastel pasture]

oh i got it

Arthur's middle name is Petersham

[primal merlin]

I've never looked at Quincy's voice lines (I need to change my display name) but I feel like he'd ironically be the most vanilla person possible besides really liking dirty talk.

[pure merlin]

Arthur wants to go ride Kaithes, he's a normal guy, just wants to enjoy life, and remind you everyday you're immune to the techrot given the stuff you've been getting up to

[pure merlin]

He says some pretty wild stuff too

[rancid pilot]

He says he can get the job done with "just a finger"

[pure merlin]

I love to imagine the VAs saying their lines in the mic and thinking about what faces they were making when they were told what they had to record

I know Ben was thrilled

[pastel pasture]

big dawg

[primal merlin]

See now I'm imagining him just making a lot of gun/shooting euphemisms and that makes me wonder if he's ever used Seek to figure out non-combat "stuff."

[hearty pendant]

of the dialogue i've seen, quincy's backroom quotes are rather tame
but he's also not even close to as direct as some of the others are with what he does say

[rancid pilot]

That seems a bit voyeuristic,
Also seek shows only weakpoints, so it'd be more like just the location if people

[worn fjord]

The first gift I gave Arthur was a keychain

But if he misplaced the keychain too I wouldn’t be surprised lol

[worn fjord]

His and Amir’s

[grim totem]

im confused - got to trusted with roathe and he asked me to reset the triad in order to get loid to the entrari. i said no (bc i just started dating lyon hehe) and now after talking to him again about other options im on "anathema". ive already beaten him 21 times, is there something else i should do?

[hearty pendant]

lyon or marie might be able to help you

[grim totem]

oohh ok so i can still turn this around

[worn fjord]

Lyon is there to help you. You should get this convo start - It seems you have managed to go quite awry with the Orokin. I am not precisely shocked.

[grim totem]

sweet mother of lua and the yellow one too i am saved, thanks

[hearty pendant]

indeed
amir barks in one of his quotes but that's about it

[worn fjord]

If you’re at Close rank with Lyon, the Lyon convo will be worded differently but he’s there to help you

[pastel pasture]

does each date in triad only have one captura scene

[hearty pendant]

5
given out over 5 weeks i think?

[pastel pasture]

lame

im finished with triad and want to reset but i gotta wait for Marie to pay out

[harsh otter]

Hey there. Question about Roathe's KIM. I am checking out his Rank 5 convo 1 and the question i have is - Can i reach his redemption ONLY if i got all his story from Descendia? The HellStoryCounter thing, from what i understand it's connected to each complete run of the mode (winning vs Roathe), so only after fighting (and winning) against him 21 times can i reach the "Redemption arc" for him, correct?

[hearty pendant]

if you don't get the 21 VMs, the only "ending" you can get is RoatheFailNot21
you need 21 for any other result, yes

[harsh otter]

Good to know, then i have to slow down with my KIM progress. Is it possible to "spam" the descendia mode to get all 21 stories in one day?

[hearty pendant]

the VMs will queue and play as needed, no need to slow down
yea, you just need to beat him 21 times, so you could just spam the bossfight itself

[misty veldt]

Very happy to report that the man went upstairs

No issues happened to bug it. Lyon helped me out

[harsh otter]

That's good to know. Thanks a bunch

[jagged summit]

Still in Anathema with no texts from anyone now hate my life

[primal merlin]

Hello once again brother. We still suffer together.

[jagged summit]

Yo you still in the same situation too? AYYEEE LET’S sadly GO

[primal merlin]

No rest for the wicked, as they say. In this case, no ceasing of Roathe being a pain in the ass. But it's in character at least.

Just you wait Roathe, once they make a working hotfix you're gonna be so redeemed. Gonna friendship the hell out of you.

Gonna look in the mirror one day and not even recognize himself anymore. People will pass him by and think "Wow look at that guy, I can't imagine him being problematic."

[harsh otter]

What are the 'endings' for Lyon in KIM anyway? I know Roathe can be redeemed/villain or failing to get those, Marie has that thing about faith in Entrati, and what of Lyon

[worn fjord]

Found another person who’s in the same situation as you. Meet @pliant orchid

[jagged summit]

Oh I’m not gonna friendship the hell out of him I want that blueberry cookie

[jagged summit]

@pliant orchid yo how’s it going

[worn fjord]

The list of people keeps growing it seems

[primal merlin]

Roathe know he won't win the fight against the power of love and friendship, but he'll take as many people down with him as possible.

[pliant orchid]

Ehm... hello? Yeah, not playing right now but I'll just wait for the fixes and do everything else I have to do in the game

[worn fjord]

Well it’s mainly talking to him about his faith— I think it might impact future storylines instead of now. So the topic of Rell and whether you help with Lyon’s dilemma in faith (FaithYes, FaithNo, FaithMaybe basically)

[primal merlin]

Might get to LR5 before Roathe stops busting our chops lmao

[harsh otter]

And which of those would you say to be the 'good' ending?

[pliant orchid]

My plan is to farm for all the crafting stuff in the ||flashback|| to forge all the weapons... and abuse Elios's scanning ability while I am at it.

[tight pagoda]

I'm watching a show called Pantheon and even here I'm not free from him

For bonus points it's literally using the protagonist's voice (a teenage girl) here

It could literally be a Warframe reference too, the release dates match

[worn fjord]

It’s too early to say which is the “good ending” honestly and the Drifter responses you get to help Lyon depends on your Drifter’s faith (when Marie asked, I gave something vague on purpose since I didn’t know if it’ll impact future chats - “It's... complicated. I believe there's something out there, but I don't really have a named faith.”.

Anyways the response I gave Lyon focused on finding peace within himself and - “I'm not saying you need to find your faith again. I'm saying if you want to - if you feel you need to - it's not something that's forever lost.” This felt more correct to me (it was FaithMaybe btw)

[ruby granite]

I need some help. Somehow got anathema on Marie and idk how to fix it

[harsh otter]

Hmm, i'll have to study the convos again since i went for FaithYesSimilar, (because i had no idea what Sol/Lua faith is about) and idk if i'm locked out of / into a certain ending now. Still some time left till i get there so i'll see then. But honestly the Roathe's conversations about Wally are somewhat annoying, like IDK what the f that thing is, why do you want me to figure it out myself, just give me the lore approved version of what it is.

[worn fjord]

I don’t think it’ll lock you out of anything major, just some responses are worded differently. Nothing major

I was just overthinking when I had that chat with Marie long ago lol

[worn fjord]

Oh saying I don’t know at the end of the Roathe convo was what I did 😂 I wasn’t happy with any of the responses given so

And I said we might not be able to kill Wally but we can stop them

Idk how it’ll impact things but we’ll see

[worn fjord]

Sure, what’s your last chat with her?

[harsh otter]

Through the chats with Roathe it seems like Wally only came into existence when 'meeting' with Albreht, and then everyone else made it into some kind of godlike creature, and it kinda makes sense

[worn fjord]

Honestly before the Triad chats, I didn’t even realize everyone else thought of Wally as a “god”, thought they just treated Wally as an otherworldly entity.. like some eldritch horror thing— describing Wally as God would seem that people worship him or something

[primal merlin]

Which conversations do the questions of Faith pop up? I wonder if I've perhaps missed those.

[ruby granite]

I'm rank 5 (close) with her. it was the conversation about the Cavia's birthdays. Don't know which chat is that specifically but It's definitely after the Entratyday2

[worn fjord]

“I do not think I can adequately describe to you how strange a moment it was to inject the serum, my friend/mon miracle.”

[primal merlin]

Aaaand yep I missed that.

[worn fjord]

NOOOOOOO 😭 😭

[harsh otter]

Now that you mention it, it does make sense to think that it's some eldritch thing with somewhat godlike powers (or at least presence) and not a real god

[worn fjord]

Oh that convo, yea that shouldn’t have given you anathema

Especially after the hotfix

[ruby granite]

So what do i do? reset?

[worn fjord]

Not until we check if you’re out of options. What’s your last convo with Lyon

Can I see his chat history

[velvet finch]

I reset the Devil's Triad and losing Marie as wifey felt like a knife to the gut 😭

[ruby granite]

found some posts on reddit saying that people who had romance with her and got anathema, simply dated a hex member and started the consent chat with Marie and got rid of the anathema that way

[ruby granite]

one sec

[worn fjord]

Oh interesting. That’s the first time I’m hearing of that to fix Anathema

[ruby granite]

rank 6 convo 1, i just ranked up with him (no romance)

and i just fixed roathe after getting the not21failure

[worn fjord]

And you just got Anathema with Marie today?

[ruby granite]

yes

[primal merlin]

I believe I've done both LyonConfession1 and the LyonConfession2 conversation. Along with Roathe? I can only be led to assume that DE wishes to trap me in a purgatorial state of not getting resolutions for these character arcs. Damned beyond even the multi-layered complexities of eternalism. For an alternate timeline can only exist if a choice has been made to diverge from. I stand before the crossroads, never to travel further down either avenue.

[worn fjord]

With Lyon’s help?

[ruby granite]

yes

I didn't get the option to help Roathe from Marie

[worn fjord]

Did his conversation start like this? - Lyon, I need your help with Roathe.

[ruby granite]

yes yes

[worn fjord]

Okay great so there’s one more chat where Lyon can help you with Marie

But can I see your profile note with Marie?

[ruby granite]

U need the dialogue as well?

[worn fjord]

Oh you got that visual bug for Marie’s note I see

Okay that’s fine tho you just have to tell me— did you convince Marie about reuniting Loid with the family

[ruby granite]

No I don't think I did

I haven't conviced Lyon either by the looks of it

[worn fjord]

This conversation - “Have you thought any more about how to convince Loid to talk to the Entrati family upstairs?”

[ruby granite]

Haven't got that conversation with anyone

[worn fjord]

Lyon’s family convo should start like this - “Might I take a moment to commend you on something that I thought was heretofore otherwise impossible?”

[ruby granite]

Don't have that either

[worn fjord]

Okay lets just see the chat history for all three

[primal merlin]

@worn fjord Do you perhaps work in customer support in some regard? You've been very helpful for everyone who asked.

At least for determining if we simply messed up or just have bugs.

[worn fjord]

I teach others in my free time

[primal merlin]

You're good at it. 👍

[worn fjord]

I try, thank you

[ruby granite]

I'm sorry they don't fit in a screenshot or a pic

[worn fjord]

No worries! This helps a lot. Give me a sec

[worn fjord]

So the last two conversations with Marie, before the hotfix, it used to give the Anathema bug after completing them (for some people). That’s probably what happened here. As for the family convos, you’ll eventually get them but if not Lyon has a convo in Best Friend rank that should help

It will be there next daily reset

If it does trigger

[ruby granite]

U think if i get the family convos the anathema will go away?

[worn fjord]

If Marie’s in Anathema bug, her chats are not there though right?

So Lyon here will get you the FamilySuccess boolean in case those chats don’t pop up

[ruby granite]

wdym if her chat's aren't there?

[worn fjord]

I mean with the Anathema bug, do future chats come up next daily reset?

[ruby granite]

I got the anathema today without having the chance to talk to her so I don't know yet?, if that answers ur question

[worn fjord]

That does. I’m trying to see if you got the Family convo with Lyon but it doesn’t look like it’s there😭😭

The Triad KIM seems to skip some important convos when the “Play All KIM chats” option is not on

[ruby granite]

I didn't have it on

maybe that's why

[worn fjord]

Yea— as for the Anathema bug, if Lyon’s convo doesn’t trigger then you have to wait for a hotfix

[ruby granite]

Alright, thank you so very much 🙏 I hope I get Lyon's convo tomorrow

[worn fjord]

I do hope things work out but if it doesn’t please reach out to support in #support-and-bugs

[worn fjord]

At least you got both of Lyon’s confession chats even if you missed the faith one— honestly that should have triggered for you even if the “Play all KIM chats” wasn’t on

Maybe if they add more to the story later, you might get the chance to talk about it with Lyon someday

[primal merlin]

I've got a forum bug post about both the Roathe and Lyon issues I'm having. Hopefully it catches the attention of a dev.

[worn fjord]

Chaos, looking back, it looks like your last chat with Roathe might’ve actually solved the whole familysuccess thing with Marie and Lyon. Could I see how that chat went?

[ruby granite]

Yeah gimme a minute tho. I'm in a mission

[worn fjord]

No worries, take your time

[worn fjord]

What was the Lyon issue for you again?

I remember Roathe was in Anathema for you right? Or his profile note being at “impasse” despite you doing everything and the cutscene

[primal merlin]

Well if my hypothesis about me being at Anathema with Roathe is correct, the hypothesis being that I can't trigger any conversations beyond "Close" because they require flags that I don't have from the Redemption/Villain conversation (which also deprived me of 20 chemistry points it seems), then I would say that me missing Lyon's "Faith" conversations might also cause problems down the line.

But no way to be sure about that because I'm currently best friends with Lyon.

[worn fjord]

I don’t think it would be a huge issue to miss it. At least I hope not

[worn fjord]

Roathe is in Anathema for you right?

[primal merlin]

I would also hope not. But knowing that Roathe promises different things depending on his route goes makes me wonder if there will be something meaningful that comes about of our decisions in Kim.

[primal merlin]

Yes.

[lucid peak]

i think i’m gonna reset my relationship with the triad

i think that’s all i can do

[worn fjord]

Hmm nvm. It seems “LyonFamilyFail” and “MarieFamilyFail” wasn’t there to trigger the conversation I was hoping for you

[worn fjord]

Considering how in depth we debated with Roathe about if Wally was a god or not.. I’m thinking the decisions we chose in KIM does matter

Neci’s situation also seem to tie in with some Triad convos

Like the code phrase she had with her parents

[primal merlin]

While I do think it's important that our choices matter, I do hope it's not in too significant of a way. There's technically already a daily "cap" of conversational progression with the people on KIM. While I don't personally struggle too much with the dialogues, I can imagine it being very frustrating for a player if they get progression-blocked because they picked some wrong dialogue options and then had to reset and start over.

[worn fjord]

Yea that’s true too

[primal merlin]

Plus they still need to figure out what our YingYang-type choices/alignment do.

[worn fjord]

Hex chats didn’t have this many booleans lol..so many endings

It might not be too game-changing since the choices we made for the alignment were started long before

But it’s a possibility they would do something with it

[primal merlin]

I think that after the general displeasure of needing to do Descendia 21 times to progress Roathe, there might be more caution about tying general gameplay into the KIM chats (since they seemed to be intended as a fun side thing with additional lore). For me, I just want to make sure I've missed no opportunities because of a bug. If I fumble a conversation, so be it. And I am grateful to be at Best Friend rank with a few people at all despite all the bugs. But I feel like I've unduly missed the chance to know these characters better if the bugs don't get patched.

And of course there is always the option of resetting, but god knows that I don't want to be forced into resetting and receiving all sorts of judgement from the Protoframes just because I had to circumvent a coding error. The power imbalance already feels weird enough to me in a relationship sim where everybody knows you're effectively a god with control over their existence.

[worn fjord]

Yea that’s understandable

[worn fjord]

Yea with the whole resetting narrative, it’s painting the drifter as “villain” in the story even if that wasn’t the player’s intention (example— some players would want to reset just to see how conversations play out/what lore they might’ve missed)

[ruby granite]

@worn fjord
I looked into it. I have anathema on Marie because I don't have Loidfamilycomplete as true. And Roathe can help me with that in rank 5 chat 7. He triggers the RoatheRepair convo with Lyon and after that MarieLyonRepair is triggered

so in 5 days i'll start making progress 😭

[worn fjord]

Oh that’s great!!!!

I felt like I was missing something when I was helping you there, but I’m glad you found it

[worn fjord]

I know it’s a long wait but good luck!!

[ruby granite]

Thank you thank you 😭 🙏

[primal merlin]

I know everybody makes jokes about it in the KIM conversations and tries to play it off, but I feel like I pick up hints of fear and resentment whenever it comes up. Definitely levels of venom. I've thankfully not come across many of those personally, but I know they're there.

[worn fjord]

Yea and with the way the story is going, I wonder if Drifter is actually supposed to reset. I wonder how Drifter’s story will end up tbh

And I wonder how it will impact Operator

[solid otter]

Its funny actually

Roathe will comment on the reset, but one of my favourite ones is where he complains about the family being reunited and like. Talking to him as if he remembers he did it

Also yeah the triad are so very much built to be reset

[primal merlin]

Well I'm confident Drifter won't die at least. DE wouldn't let us buy customizations like this if the character was ultimately gonna go. And while it's possible that there could be a scenario where the Drifter dies but the Operator comes to be able to embody their other selves so we don't actually "lose" the Drifter, I doubt that strongly because the dynamic of a child in the body of an adult dating actual adults is obviously highly suspect.

[worn fjord]

Huh interesting

[worn fjord]

Yea it feels like it

[solid otter]

Marie being so easy to fail if you're not paying attention really makes it feel like that, and i lowkey love it

[primal merlin]

It doesn't help that Roathe goes so far as to threaten you if you don't undo his memories.

[worn fjord]

This reminds of that one convo with Roathe— about Drifter vs Operator & Lotus

Roathe being the devils advocate there lol

[solid otter]

Mm, its in one random kimchat, and its funny. The kimchats are good, but holy shit they are so buggy and the consent chats are dogshit

[worn fjord]

Lmao don’t get me started on those consent chats 😂😭

[solid otter]

"You must cheat on your partner to get the consent chats - AND YOU CAN IGNORE THEM"

Thanks DE.

[worn fjord]

Also isn’t it better to talk about it with your current partner first before confessing to another person 😭

[solid otter]

IT IS. THATS WHAT STOPS IT FROM BEING CHEATING.

ITS NOT EVEN THAT HARD

[worn fjord]

Anyways yea sorry Amir— but the breakup had to happen for me imo

[solid otter]

Realistically only Eleanor and Quincy would've been okay w it

[primal merlin]

Honestly I thought the conversation was highly valid, given the New War was literally a "The Lotus is mind-controlled to be your enemy" thing. And Narmer's entire gimmick was mind control, with some failed stealth missions leading to you getting Veiled. And Warframes being pilotable by non-Tenno at great personal cost. And the Sentients being easily manipulated during the whole Perita Rebellion, along with us technically. There's a lot of precedent for why we should prepare to fight ourselves.

[solid otter]

Arthur directly isn't, nor is Lettie. No clue on Aoi

[obtuse gyro]

I mean, even with player intention considered, narratively its very hard to paint that action as anything more than a neutral thing yknow?

like imagine your broski telling you they reset your memory just because he wanted to see what else you had to say

[worn fjord]

Yea that chat was foreshadowing it feels like. Or Roathe being Roathe and giving us advice in his own way

[worn fjord]

That’s very true.

I was just saying that there are players who might’ve missed lore related chats, that might’ve liked to play it again. I guess for situation like this, the Kimulacrum helps

[obtuse gyro]

-# or they could take advantage of the free no consequences reset thing right now and turn on all chats

[primal merlin]

There's a nagging part of myself that thinks the Drifter is gonna get "cut off" from us. Not dead. Not gone. But not entirely with us. Stuck in their own strange time paradox as they were before. And Albrecht is gonna come around and say something like "Sometimes the amount that you care for something must be measured in comparison to the pain that comes from its loss. I had to relearn love after abandoning my family. To fight the Indifference, you will need to take this step as well: the loss of your other half." Or something like that.

[worn fjord]

That’s a good point lol— so players don’t have to send a support ticket for that and can do it right away or?

[worn fjord]

That sounds poetic in a way. It’s an interesting theory but what happens after that? The Operator doing something about it?

[primal merlin]

I mean hell I dunno. I don't even know if the Drifter is meant to be here, really. Isn't their existence in the same time as the Operator some cosmic anomaly, or extremely specific exception because of our circumstances with the void and Wally? If we patch up the damage that Wally has caused, what does that mean for all the stuff that exists because of the broken boundaries?

[obtuse gyro]

no they need to send a ticket for that iirc, but they just gotta turn on all chats before they proceed again

[obtuse gyro]

patching up the damage wally caused wont nuke the drifter

on account of wally =/= the void

and drifter being manifested due to eternalism shenanigans in the void

[primal merlin]

I'm not saying it'll nuke the drifter, I'm saying it might make the Drifter and Operator no longer... interchangeable, I guess?

Like we go our own ways or something.

[obtuse gyro]

but it wouldn't be the case really

cuz wally isnt doing anything to make that happen

its like say

Getting rid of the goober who keeps trying to slash your tires isnt going to remove your backseat passenger

[primal merlin]

I thought there were a lot of allowances because of proximity to the void, which were caused by Albrecht's experiments, the Zariman, etc. And that if the flow of Void radiation stopped bleeding into the system, a lot of stuff would stop functioning.

[worn fjord]

Right and on that note Wally hasn’t specifically differentiated the Drifter from the Operator right? Or does Wally only call the Operator kiddo

[worn fjord]

Here’s a Roathe chat that gives more context I think—

Roathe: The damnable fingers. We took those cursed fingers, in a desperate and mad attempt to reach Tau, and we Orokin found a way to replicate them, didn't we?

Roathe: Little bits of the Void, everywhere you go... A network of trenches and tunnels for that thing to pop up wherever it may like. And worse still?

Roathe: The Tenno. And you. All of you, Void-touched. And all of you, haunted by that thing, for wherever you go, it can follow.

Roathe: And likely anyone who has interacted with it for any length of time. Entrati himself. His butler. The Cavia. Myself, the zealots, by our proximity to this Sanctum. The list goes on.

Drifter: So you're postulating that anyone with enough Void exposure - or anyone who is a "battery" becomes another window for the Man in the Wall to peer through?

[obtuse gyro]

yes, but stopping wally wouldnt undo that

[solid otter]

I mean

[primal merlin]

I guess to use this example, what if the Operator is in Car 1 on a train (representation of the void) and Drifter is in Car 2. You're both heading the same way and in the same space, but then for some reason the Engineer (Wally) is harassing you both between cars. So you shoot him in the face but now no one's keeping this operation together so Car 1 and Car 2 get disconnected and you end up going down different tracks.

[obtuse gyro]

but why is the assumption here that the lil engineer is the one keeping the operation together?

[solid otter]

Would stopping wally. Like. Removing him, would that stop the powers he gave us?

[primal merlin]

I'm operating under the presumption that he's the reason your cars are connected in the first place instead of the cars going in different directions.

[solid otter]

Its his power, so like. If all traces of him are gone

[obtuse gyro]

which isnt inherrently true tho

[worn fjord]

If Roathe’s theory is true, even if they do go “different paths” it won’t stop Wally from following wherever they go. Drifter and Operator’s void powers won’t disappear at all

[obtuse gyro]

meta-gameplay reasons aside, because thats the simplest explanation of why we'll never lose either operator or drifter

[worn fjord]

At least for now

[hybrid marlin]

What does this mean in the kim flowchart site

[obtuse gyro]

yes, but stopping wally wouldnt undo that

[worn fjord]

iirc it’s just Boolean check so the system knows that Marie did warn you about Roathe

[hybrid marlin]

Ah okay ty

I failed rizzing her up so I reset the triad earlier a couple days ago and I gave up im using that freakin chart site

[worn fjord]

And things would stop functioning only if something happened to the Heart in Deimos right?

[hybrid marlin]

For it though I just follow the options that give the most chemistry right

[solid otter]

Im gonna try and guess it was because you agreed with her about Albrecht. And then confessed in that argument

[worn fjord]

With Marie (or anyone really), just don’t confess to her when you’re in an argument with her

[hybrid marlin]

Alright

[hybrid marlin]

I think so I dont remember

[primal merlin]

Alright so I had assumed that because of the initial interactions with Albrecht and the Void, the construction of the Heart of Deimos, and the retention of Wally's severed fingers, the connection with the void was only there because Wally's influence lingered in the Sol system and was spread through every reliquary drive as void travel became more popular. I suppose since there was observed phenomena tied to the void prior to Albrecht's void gate, and the fact that a void gate was made before the true nature of the void was fully understood, it makes sense that void energy can be accessed without the Indifference.

My assumption was that if Wally went back and fully removed his influence, we'd also lose our connection to the void. It's never explicitly stated that this is the case. But I would assume that Wally would close the door behind him if we kicked him out. And without proximity to the void, all special powers tied to the void should naturally disappear (like the Drifter and Operator existing in the same timeline). This is assuming of course that we don't just kill him.

[formal grove]

it's cool that we can get Roathe hanging out in the Necralisk now

if only Lyon and Marie could be there too and Teshin could hang out in the Dormizone

[dawn hound]

Warning Spoiler: Ballas, ||Dies|| and, ||wins!||

SpongeLaugh

[balmy storm]

Why would ai spongebob say this ):

[solid otter]

Keyword, ai

[worn fjord]

IIRC what Bau said, Wally ≠ Void. If we stop Wally, we won’t really lose our void powers. And..Drifter happened because of eternalism stuff with the void right

[balmy storm]

https://tenor.com/view/squirrel-disintegration-meme-ai-meme-funny-gif-5585270952676380091

[balmy storm]

So problem is that our powers aren’t just from the void but from a piece of wally, that’s what we got in the deal

And yes Drifter is a product of eternalism

The biggest and main one
There’s only like 2 other examples kinda of it so

[worn fjord]

Thank you for correcting me, I’ll try to remember that

[balmy storm]

Iirc that being the whole thing with Baro’s deal and Rev Prime maybe being a product of the Unum interacting with eternalism?

[worn fjord]

Oh right, Onkko mentioned something about that. His quotes are so interesting to go through tbh

And Baro.. there’s quite a bit to unpack there

[balmy storm]

Yeah Unum can see other timelines and guides ours through the Quills

[primal merlin]

Well I wasn't saying that Wally is equivalent to the Void, so much that flood gates between the Void and our reality are open because of all the void tech and general shenanigans between Albrecht and Wally. And that even if Drifter exists because of Eternalism rather than Wally, the only reason they exist in our timeline is because of our close proximity to the void. So the normal rules of reality stop functioning enough to allow the Drifter and Operator to coexist in the same spacetime. That's why I'm saying the Drifter would "leave" if Wally closed all the doors behind him. Not disappear entirely, but like... go back to where they came from.

[balmy storm]

Its why that one Quill is okay with dying for the orb fight

[worn fjord]

(Those quotes during Halloween got me thinking again lol)

[balmy storm]

Those def solidified it as canon

[worn fjord]

Ohh okay okay thanks for clarifying

[balmy storm]

We still don’t know who or what E. Ki’teer is

Just that he’s not our Baro
And def had an encounter with Wally

[primal merlin]

That part is extra concerning because Baro said he was supposed to be a singularity as per his deal with Wally yeah?

[balmy storm]

YEAH

[worn fjord]

Ahh I see I get what you’re saying now. Do you think Wally would care if Drifter left or not? With the way they act, they might use Drifter against Operator or …something.

[balmy storm]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-funny-weird-stare-big-eyes-gif-26186132

[balmy storm]

At first they seemed to not but I think they do now as of Isleweaver

[worn fjord]

Right! With the whole Neci situation too

[balmy storm]

Neci likely influenced the fanfic cause the devs something like
They didn’t like we took 1999, which both Neci and Wally wouldn’t be but Neci likely more so

[primal merlin]

Well on the one hand we're now involved with the Operator's deal, so Drifter is probably a conduit for Wally to follow. On the other hand, the stuff that Drifter is doing is meant to directly oppose the Indifference on some metaphysical level.

[balmy storm]

Both of ourselves do be caring a piece of him everywhere we go

[worn fjord]

I mean this Roathe convo here, confirms it does it not?

So wherever Drifter/Operator goes Wally will follow

The same with Neci

The same with wherever Albrecht is

[primal merlin]

Of course there's also still no guarantee that we're properly following a plan to fight the Indifference because the Indifference has been wearing Albrecht's face since the Orokin Empire and "The Man in the Wall" could also be used to describe Albrecht from the perspective of the Indifference (or whatever originally gazed back at Albrecht) because Albrecht entered the Void from the "Wall of Lohk."

[balmy storm]

Not so much with Albrecht, he’s wanting to follow him but doesn’t have a direct tie

[worn fjord]

Oh! I didn’t realize that

[balmy storm]

I mean we do know that love is his weakness, that was proven and on Albrecht’s behest in a way the Drifter learned how to love
Meanwhile Operator has been learning how to come to terms with and deal with their trauma, to not be indifferent to it

We absolutely have been preparing it’s just
Not a very clear plan from our perspective lmao

[worn fjord]

There’s no solid plan, it’s all improv unfortunately Roathe would argue otherwise and make sure his plans has backup plans ofc. And Lyon and Marie too I think

[hearty pendant]

key thing to remember, though, is that the indifference has a "tell"
the eyes are, outside of one instance (rusalka), always the black/purple when its him

[worn fjord]

Good point… hmm

[balmy storm]

Russalka is an odd case in general cause
It’s possession not imitation

[worn fjord]

I wonder impact that had on her mind and soul

[balmy storm]

Well uh. He hollowed out like 99% of her…

[worn fjord]

And that 1% is alive somehow

[balmy storm]

There is only a bit left and she speaks to us during Isleweaver and if we collected the spider fragments and got the password from her parents she sends proof she’s still really in there
||The other half of the password, her hat and her medal.||

[balmy storm]

It very well could be what love she has left

Wally’s weakness!

[hearty pendant]

that does line up with what she breaks through to give us..

[worn fjord]

Lyon mentions that the line is from one of the scriptures btw!!

[solid otter]

Even without seeing the eyes, you can tell its him

He sucks at hiding himself. Such as the "Albrecht" on that phone in the ARG

[balmy storm]

Yeah it’s awesome :D

[worn fjord]

WAIT YOU ARE ONTO SOMETHING

[balmy storm]

Only time Wally doesn’t suck at hiding himself is when it’s clear it’s him anyway (the interrogation scene)

[worn fjord]

(Roathe would scoff probably but he’ll come around 😂)

[solid otter]

That cutscene changed some part of my brain chemistry

[primal merlin]

I'm just wondering why in particular Wally would be weak to love. An entity from a realm where thoughts take physical form? The very reason for his being? Unless Albrecht is banking on the idea that our love will counter the Indifference's origins (that being Albrecht's fears and insecurities), but I thought we were told that the opposite of love wasn't negative emotions, but rather the absence of emotion at all.

And hell, Wally seems active enough to care about what's going on. He definitely doesn't feel indifferent.

[solid otter]

Its not so much thoughts, its emotions that take shape

[worn fjord]

same

[solid otter]

"Man-cat" wally what the shit

I wonder how Albrecht felt, seeing Loid again after so long

I need more insight into that man's thoughts

[primal merlin]

Unless Wally's motivation is actually "I didn't want to be born, DAD" and he wants the universe to stop caring so that he can also die. If emotion is what generates form in the void, then does pure indifference allow things to fade away?

[worn fjord]

I feel like quoting Albrecht’s notes, istg he mentioned something about his plans, Thomas do you remember? Or am I hallucinating lol

[solid otter]

Mmm

He does mention something about that in the Duviri note section

[worn fjord]

Yea it definitely was Duviri I think

[balmy storm]

He’s not banking on it it’s proven

[solid otter]

He mentions being re-motivated by the knowledge that his daughter was fighting wally with the book of Duviri iirc

I think he only realised that wally is weak to love very recently

[balmy storm]

We literally witness that with our efforts against the fragmented and the emotions, the love between Loid and Albrecht pushed him back

[solid otter]

Sidenote, that time where he goes "Arthur? Hm. Tenno." Scratches my brain in the right way. His voice is so nice.

[worn fjord]

"I did not perceive the significance of Euleria's stance at first. Her concern for the children was not merely pastoral attentiveness. It was a direct strike against the Indifference. She was teaching the weak to be strong, in the very places where those cold fingers would reach, and through her act of compassion, spitting in the face of alienation and despair. Could I do less?"

"Shame is an inert state, but fertile. It primes the mind, bolstering it for repentance.
I had thought to make a difference in Duviri. But Duviri had made a difference in me. My own daughter's creations, reverberating and growing in the womb of the Void, had shown me another path than that of the indulgent coward. I was neither helpless nor irredeemable. Like she had, I could fight."

[solid otter]

The way it makes me want to explode

[worn fjord]

Every time I read this ngl

[solid otter]

The fact Euleria remembers those childhood stories makes me so sad

[worn fjord]

Those childhood stories reminded her of her time with her father

[primal merlin]

Yeah I guess the book confirms things for me. There's a part of me waiting for the rugpull of Wally being like "SIKE. Don't you know what acting is, idiot? I did it the entire time I was Rusalka in 1999."

[worn fjord]

“My work, I now understood, must proceed from a different point.

I would confront the phantom of myself, and deny it to the teeth."

[solid otter]

Ykwhat would be even worse

[worn fjord]

"Their humanity may not last. My deliverance may yet consume them. The human swallowed up in the sacred beast. And if my wayward disciples turn on me, what words of comfort shall I have beyond: 'This is the bargain we have made. Through our sacrifice, history will be saved'."

[worn fjord]

What?

[worn fjord]

I think the key plan is here, no matter how vague it sounds —

I will repair what I have broken, no more, no less. The scales must balance. And in such a monstrous penitence as this, I shall take no heed of the dust that may fall upon them on either side, the dust of petty lives.

The builders of old tempered their mortar with blood, to appease the most ancient of land-spirits. We should have been so wise. Yet it is not too late to learn.

The sands fall. The circuit completes. I return to the place of the beginning.

Let witless hordes bleat their disdain for every fervent plan.
The deal is done, the die is cast. I end as I began."

[solid otter]

If he did cut the family off earlier than what we thought (his last trip to 1999 is what we thought, but now it seems like its as early as maybe even before duviri)

That like. Euleria wrote the book after she got her father's suicide letter

-# unlikely and doesn't line up, but hey, let a man dream

[solid otter]

Hes gonna die oh lord

The beginning being the void, the ending being the void
AHFHFHDHHH MY SHAYLAAAA

[worn fjord]

Interesting theory but yea you’re right that it doesn’t line up. Eurelia’s lines after the cutscene didn’t hint to that

[solid otter]

He definitely was tryna off himself before he got to duviri

"I must atone for what I had done through my own blood" isnt screaming "im not gonna harm myself"

[worn fjord]

He is. He mentioned in another line - “So long as I worked through scapegoats, my guilt would only deepen. I must atone for what I had done through my own blood.”

[worn fjord]

Oh you beat me there but yea that line!

[primal merlin]

I know it's a harsh comparison, but this is kind of bringing to mind that moral debate about if using Nazi scientist research is ethical, because it was obtained through highly unethical means but used for ethical purposes. Albrecht basically saying "I'm gonna save the world and an untold number of innocent lives are going to be reduced to dust following my plans, but I've gotta do what I've gotta do because I know best."

[solid otter]

See, this is the line that makes me think his time in duviri was from him throwing himself into the void, as iirc that line directly leads into duviri's notes

So like. You can see how that looks

[primal merlin]

Like damn we might save more people in the long run following the plan but damn if the process isn't truly horrid.

[solid otter]

What's that line about Loid during the final note?

Something about his eyes

[worn fjord]

Yea but seeing Duviri and Eurelia’s creations changed his mind - “Like she had, I could fight.”

[solid otter]

"Do not let it see you crying" "my last sight of your face must not be marred with tears" "if only I could've been worthy of you, my Loid" or whatever Albrecht said to loid was. Yeowch

Fun fact, i did not hear that line in the intro cutscene to whispers

And I still came to the conclusion they were gay as shit half way through the quest

[worn fjord]

Yea it’s like the worst situation to be in. And it’s not helping matters when it feels like we’re running out of time

[worn fjord]

It’s too obvious yea lol

[mental ice]

Was kind of obvious in first 10 seconds of whispers 😅

[primal merlin]

I hope Albrecht sacrificing himself doesn't end up being some ultimate redemption for his character. It's all well and good to settle the problems you make with your own hands, but it's not just his "own blood" at this point is it? Dude has too much to answer for. Too much to be resolved with him struggling for a while before dying.

[solid otter]

DE the moment you start actually putting subtitles as actual mucking subtitles, is the day I'll buy a full prime pack and Soulframe's founder pack

None of this "hushed whispers" bullshit I NEED TO READ THE WORDS TO HEAR THEM

[mental ice]

Albrecht sacrificing himself would be so cliche, I hope it does not happen...

[solid otter]

I want him to live and face what he had done

[balmy storm]

If he does he better kiss his boyfriend first

[balmy storm]

He may not want to but he doesn’t get to decide!

[worn fjord]

IIRC wasn’t the whole “Can the Orokin ever be forgiven” actually Entrati asking “Can I ever be forgiven” or something like that

[solid otter]

Yup :3

Mind you, Roathe is actively worse than Albrecht

[primal merlin]

I mean hell the Orokin can be forgiven if they stop trampling over people to get what they want, sure.

[mental ice]

Does it matter who is better a**hole though? They both worth each other 😅

[solid otter]

So if Roathe can be forgiven and redeemed, so can Albrecht

[mental ice]

As Grealt of Rivia said: Evil is Evil. Lesser, Greater, doesn't make difference.

[primal merlin]

My problem is that Albrecht's plans actively involve trampling on people.

[solid otter]

Roathe is responsible for Adis dying so

Roathe did a lot worse

[worn fjord]

That seems to be the whole point of the KIM endings yea

[solid otter]

Do I need to detail what exactly went down because of him and Niktoh?

How is using a whole army to continue a war, enjoying it, and eventually leading to our best friend's death any better than what Albrecht did?

At least Albrecht hates what he has to do

[mental ice]

Albrecht is still a hypocrite though, as Kaeli said it

[solid otter]

Yet again though, Roathe has pretty privileges.

[worn fjord]

Yea Albrecht himself acknowledges that I think

[solid otter]

Kaeli is also a hypocrite when she says "freaking orokin bullshit" girly you are an orokin

You do that exact shit

You aint gonna tell me Kaeli never lied once

[mental ice]

True, I guess they are all hypocrites 😅

[worn fjord]

That one Lettie convo still hits me hard ngl

Everything’s such an apocalyptic mess

[solid otter]

Between Roathe and Albrecht, if i was to choose one to do my many, many blood tests, id still choose Albrecht

[primal merlin]

Don't the voicemails on Roathe confirm that he was racked with guilt for everything he'd done during the war, after we got his memories back? I mean I'm sure he enjoyed the valor to some degree, but I thought the ultimate conclusion from Roathe was that he felt he had to finish what he started because otherwise none of it would've been worth the blood. Not because he wanted to kill more, but because he wanted there to be a point to it all. And like yes Adis dying is terrible, but I won't weigh the personal value of one character to us for something like determining who's the worse committer of genocide.

[obtuse gyro]

I dont think its hypocritical to complain about the exact thing your caste does on the regular

[solid otter]

... guilt absolves Roathe then?

What about Albrecht also having guilt about what he does?

[obtuse gyro]

like just cuz they lie to each other all the time doesnt mean you cant complain when youve been lied to

[mental ice]

To be fair, I don't blame Roathe much, he was put in that position by those higher ups, he couldn't exactly decline, good luck telling Orokin elites "nah, I don't want the job" without dying

[worn fjord]

Yea that’s true

[primal merlin]

Never said guilt absolves Roathe, it just seemed like you saw Roathe as completely unrepentant for his actions.

[worn fjord]

And Albrecht does mention he has guilt too

[solid otter]

.... homie i aint gonna lie he kinda was

[obtuse gyro]

It would be hypocritical if kaeli goes "waaah lying is bad, albrecht shouldnt have lied" but if she just went "dagnabit the scorpion stung me" its part and parcel of the experience

[solid otter]

Albrecht was desperate to prove to people he was worth something - given that we know not all orokin could do continuity, that might’ve been a driving force behind it

The idea of dying without a legacy is a old one, and not as often as id like it to be

[mental ice]

The root of atrocities what Roathe commited is with the Orokin elites, who placed him in that position, he even himself claims he was given title more as a fun on their part, a mockery. If it wasn't Roathe, someone else would be picked for the job, the result would be the very same thing in the end. In case of Albecht? Yeah, he wanted to prove his theory, it's not like he assumed it would open a pandora's box

[primal merlin]

Didn't Albrecht have access to continuity but refused it because he thought the Indifference would possess his corpse?

[solid otter]

After the void incident, sure

[solid otter]

People still fault him for the creation of the indifference. Like homie you cant control CE

[solid otter]

(After he became famous basically)

[mental ice]

Exactly, it was an honest accident of a scientist, one he does his best to fix (although he resorts to monstrous means)

[solid otter]

Insert the whole you gotta fight fire with fire thing

[mental ice]

I like how realisic it is. Never was a fan of the 'perfect hero' trope with morals never intact.

[solid otter]

I don't understand how people struggle to realise that what he did (leaving the family and loid) was the best choice he could've done

Like damn you wanted him to stay? You wanted him to continue putting his loved ones at risk?

[primal merlin]

I mean if we're talking about responsibility for the Indifference I mostly blame Ballas. Wally seemed fine with trolling until the attempted void jump to Tau.

[mental ice]

Perhaps there WAS a better one, but if there was, Albrecht was unaware of it at the time, most likely he was testing a theory too, for all he knew, the indifference might have still been targeting loid even after he left, but he assumed correctly.

[solid otter]

Wally has been active for a lot longer

Might I remind folk hes the reason duviri is so small

[lofty girder]

roathe i thought we were convincing Loid, not launching nukes to reset society

[primal merlin]

Wally's been active for longer, but he didn't really rev it up until Ballas started more of his reckless void nonsense, which I'm pretty sure helped increase Wally's influence.

[worn fjord]

Yea that’s what came to mind when I realized he didn’t stay. He didn’t want the family to be dragged into the mess

[hearty pendant]

the zariman incident:

[lofty girder]

Lyon what are you yapping about, marie already agreed