lore-discussion

[restive river]

Eeh we kinda could be?

We all have shared trauma
We all have the same mother figure
We all understand we must keep the balance
We committed a classicide together
We were all taught under the same focus schools

It’s possible, sure but it seems very unlikely

Like at most there may be a degree of butting heads but it sounds like the tenno may have been taught to keep interpersonal conflicts to like
Dojo sparing

The furthest we may see is with Adis later this year who seems tenno adjacent while still being his own thing

[golden raptor]

good point, but even rell felt outcasted, so there's still opportunities for disharmony i guess

though, what rell did was from a place of concern, even though no one really understood him at the time

[restive river]

Rell was also shunned by Margulis iirc so that adds to that

[proper barn]

Doesn't hombask say something about bad kids?

[restive river]

Wouldn’t that be about the kids BEFORE they went through all their training? Cause if yes, irrelevant

[proper barn]

Idk

[restive river]

Or possibly irrelevant
The tenno were trained thoroughly for like. War so they need to stick together

[tall echo]

Not felt, he was cast out

[sweet wadi]

My main gripe with chains of harrow tbh

[tall echo]

[sweet wadi]

The game’s made it clear that we are the operator. So being told that ‘I’ ostracized and mocked someone that I directly relate with has always left a bad taste in my mouth.

[tall echo]

You didn't cast him out

Margulis did

[sweet wadi]

It’s still implied that the zariman kids ostracized him and laughed at him before the jump.

[digital grail]

And i dont think every tenno mocked him

[normal mountain]

I've seen some pics of the Rell comic
The one kid that (iirc) is supposed to represent the MAIN CHARACTER seemed to be the only one who didn't want to get rid of him asap

Maybe someday I'll actually read the thing...

[pale cedar]

Nothing suggests which Tenno it actually is

[normal mountain]

Bah
Of course they leave it unclear

[void python]

so what do we think of the new baro?

[pale cedar]

He’s learning his prior statement was incorrect

[unkempt swan]

Hey I have a riven for the dual keres and I don't know if I should invest in the standar or prime version due to riven disposition anyone know which would be best ? (there's 30% more critical chance on the standard version)

[tall echo]

You missed #builds-discussion by a channel

[unkempt swan]

damn x) thanks

[gloomy crescent]

So someone give me the story of how the infested went wrong? Something about the Orokin making them?

Something about a weapon against the Tenno??

[normal mountain]

Orokin didn't make Infestation
They tried to weaponize it
Didn't work so well for them

[gloomy crescent]

I could be wrong I know

[gloomy crescent]

Oh so who did make them?

[normal mountain]

And it wasn't against the Tenno

[normal mountain]

Dunno
Might be naturally occurring in that world

We genuinely don't know where the Infestation came from

[gloomy crescent]

Ok but explain the Helminth strain to me you know how the so called “infested blood” was put into an human to transform it into a Warframe?

I always wanted to know

I do know that the Orokin experimented on innocent people to make the warframes

[normal mountain]

Like I said, the Orokin tried to weaponize the Infestation
The Helminth was perhaps the closest thing they had to success in that regard

[gloomy crescent]

Was Ballas the leader of it?

[normal mountain]

Possibly
As far as we know, he designed most of the Warframes we have access to

There's a few he didn't, but those are notable outliers

I say "possibly" because we don't have a full timeline on the Old War stuff
But Ballas was definitely in charge of the Warframe project at the end of the Old War

[pale cedar]

He was the head of the Warframe project from the start of the Warframe project

[normal mountain]

Oh?
Where was that stated?
Because I must have missed it

[pale cedar]

Silvana made Titania because Ballas twisted the transference project so if was under his orders

Ballas is almost always the person who was there if you wanted a frame

He isn't the person who made every frame but he was the reason 99% of them ever got out of the design stage

[normal mountain]

Ah
So, Silver Grove

Really should do that quest sometime, eh?

[pale cedar]

Yeah

[normal mountain]

I just keep putting it off because Titania doesn't interest me much

[pale cedar]

Do it for the lore if you don't care about the frame

[normal mountain]

Oh, absolutely!
I didn't realize there'd be any critical lore to it
Thought it'd be more like Sands of Inaros

...which is another quest I've been meaning to do

[ashen pulsar]

I haven't done it yet either lol. I don't really want to spend an hour or two on an unnecessary quest

[normal mountain]

I just read through the plot summary way back

[pale cedar]

Just because something is a side quest doesn't mean there isn't important lore

[proper barn]

@gloomy crescent Ballas oversaw the warframe project and "made" waframes to present to the 7

Or even for parvos.

[normal mountain]

Yeah
I'll tell you, Octavia's Anthem caught me off guard

It's odd that it isn't a main quest
It's 1 of 3 times I remember us actually fighting Hunhow

[proper barn]

I mean that's all of Orokin stuff. Why do you think The Tenno wanted to kill them? Or why original warframes didn't wanna obey or why the sentients rebeled?

[normal mountain]

Sentients rebelled because they didn't want the Orokin to devour Tau like they did the Origin

[proper barn]

Mmmhmm

[tall echo]

The only time and still only indirectly

[normal mountain]

Hmm
Memory must be going

[normal mountain]

But if it's the only time, that makes it even stranger

[tall echo]

That still has critical character lore

[pale cedar]

We fought Hunhow in Old War too

[tall echo]

Doesn't count

[normal mountain]

Yeah, Baro's from Mars
Inaros protected the planet
From what I've read, is about it

Sands of Inaros is on the to-do list too though

[tall echo]

Baro was from a colony the orokin used to regularly abduct yuvans from

[normal mountain]

partially explains why the dude is so stuck up-

[tall echo]

It's another example of "warframes" protecting children

[normal mountain]

Eh, I'll play it eventually
I'm just waiting for a group so we can get max Kavat spawns

I'm gonna bring Dante and my Heliocor
don't have the companion slots for Helios

[tall echo]

How

[normal mountain]

They be reserved for a future project
4x4 Medjay

[tall echo]

You know scans are per player and dead kavats don't give codes? Rather selfish to do that if you want to do it in a group

[normal mountain]

Heeyyy
I'll be nice and wait for the others to finish their scans

Before I MASSACRE

[tall echo]

Sure

[pale cedar]

They definitely wouldn't do the same for you

[normal mountain]

Then I cast Wordwarden
Jokes on them, your kills give me scans

[eternal sand]

So what’s up with nightcap. How much of nightcap is nightcap and how much is mushroom?

[tall echo]

Yes

[misty salmon]

I think I like the new Baro, he's less square. Also more polite.

[raw stone]

There are shrooms in his little head cabinet so I'd say enough to reroot the brain

And. And upon learning this info. I do think he can talk to mushrooms. He can vibrate and listen to their vibrations.

Hmn also. The Void Mushroom, The Nonono? Wonder what his deal is all about with that.

[misty salmon]

the third field guide entry explains his issue with that: ||roughly, he doesn't like mushrooms that observe back||

[raw stone]

Ah.

You don't need to explain that but this is a rhetorical response: What?

Also it does Void dmg right? That mushroom is so rare on all my runs I think I finally Rank 1'd it today

[misty salmon]

yup, void damage, spawns infrequently in nutrient processing... which I think is the third standard bounty

[dire mountain]

Nope

Nutrient processing

Vomval trumpets are labs

[misty salmon]

hmm, right... what I get for doing things by memory rather than checking, corrected.

[proper barn]

I can tell you why.

If you want.

[raw stone]

Nutrient processing issssss?

[proper barn]

@misty salmon @dire mountain @raw stone here is the mushrooms and what bounties they are from. You always get 2 from colony 2 from whatever the Bounty is.

[raw stone]

Second bounty? Third bounty? These things are tied to bounties?

[proper barn]

No no no is Weed the Garden.

[dire mountain]

I already have all the mushrooms but this is useful

[dire mountain]

All, 2, 1, 3

[proper barn]

There are always 4 mushrooms. 2 are colony 2 (3 if in sp) are based on Bounty. (Bonus mushrooms at the end can be anything.)

@raw stone did that help?

[raw stone]

Yes? I suppose. Lets me know now that specific mushrooms spawn in specific bounties.

[solemn moat]

Hi community. One question: baron ki tee is diferent. Someone know why?

[dire mountain]

In-universe: deal with wally has him scared shitless

Out-of-universe: Halloween

[humble sierra]

The reason cross play exists is because Baro made a deal with a handsome stranger to expand his customer-base. This combined different universes (platforms) into one.

This Baro is implied to be from another one of those and he severely regrets allowing opportunity to "rap tap tap" on his door

[proper barn]

It also might just be wally in disguise. @solemn moat

[solemn moat]

Explai his bad humor...

[proper barn]

Yes

[tall echo]

Issue: all versions of baro fused into one

[normal mountain]

Hmm
Maybe there's a version out there that didn't accept the deal
though why he'd suddenly show up here is beyond me

[restive river]

Not really how Baro’s deal worked

It’s likely just our Baro, haunted

You also have the issue of if he is another Baro, which he isn’t due to Baro’s deal that collapsed all Baros into one Baro, how did he get here?
Cause eternalism isn’t really an easily accessible thing, only like two characters have been able to do it and one was Wally.
The other being Eleanor contacting her Nunself

Baro doesn’t have special powers or a connection to the void beyond him going out into it to find junk to sell to us

[normal mountain]

Was just an idea of how it could have worked that I was toying with
That the Wall Man approached every version of Baro Ki'Teer at the same time
And the ones that accepted got fused into one being

[restive river]

If one was left out that kinda goes against the deal

Can’t even say one just
Refused cause it’s unlikely he would be able to

[normal mountain]

I'd also argue it was unlikely for Drifter to be left behind
Yet...

[restive river]

At the most I could see aspects of other Baros maybe seeping through into our Baro since he is all of them now, but this being a separate Baro seems very unlikely

[normal mountain]

I do see your point though
It does sound out of character for Baro to say no to being made "perfect"

[restive river]

Drifter was left behind cause they didn’t have void powers and Wally never said he’d save them

[normal mountain]

They got powers from the deal itself, no?

But this is getting off topic

[restive river]

No, they didn’t get void powers til the New War where the Operator shares

[normal mountain]

I meant the Tenno

[restive river]

Drifter does not exhibit any powers until after that moment

[restive river]

Oh yes the Tenno as a whole got their powers cause “we”, the chosen operator made a deal with Wally

In one version of events we all got powers and were saved
In another version the Drifter didn’t get powers and was ultimately left behind, eventually making Duviri

For how they got left behind?
They didn’t exhibit powers so that’s one reason they were left
They were likely hiding better than most of the other kids since. No powers.
And it doesn’t really matter if it’s unlikely cause Wally made it so, it was likely enough to happen that way and thus did

[silk atlas]

This isn't even considering the fact that Wally could've saved the other kids in any different manner in Drifter's case anyway, like just blipping them out and leaving Drifter to rot on it. Not like the timeline really exists, but it's another way to think about it

[restive river]

We know Drifter was around for the other kids running around with void powers, but he could’ve blipped em out afterward

[silk atlas]

Really? Huh

[restive river]

They have a KIM convo about their parents dying and how the other kids had powers iirc

[indigo glen]

Well about The Teacher is this where they supposed to introduce Teshin and Corpus Fraction?

[restive river]

The Teacher quest properly introduces Teshin and a bit of the Corpus whilst guiding the player towards Fortuna :)

[indigo glen]

At least they got their proper introductions not like when first time landing on Venus and asking myself why Grineer suddenly get advanced or something

Great Profit

[wild thorn]

An interesting thing to note

And the message where Baro says he merged himself

[lavish dove]

thought these were going to be bigger and give lore 🙁

[eternal sand]

Do the player syndicates ever fight canonically or do they just grimace at one another while proxy waring via the Tenno

[vale rivet]

Are decons humans

[restive river]

Unknown

[lean garden]

LOL I guess DE reused a lil bit of assets

[cyan hamlet]

Alright, so... I'm curious if anyone else is exceedingly bothered by Lotus spoiling Teshin's true identity (by calling him "Teshin Dax") in The Teacher, an event presumably prior to the canon revelation during The War Within on the Kuva Fortress, when the Tenno expresses complete surprise upon hearing it for, clearly, the first time.

"Teshin... Dax!? You're with them!"

Surely I'm not the only one who can see this as undermining the impact of the reveal in TWW, if the Tenno already knows (thanks to Space Mom calling it out) that Teshin is a Dax at essentially the beginning of their story.

I'm not opposed to Teshin being introduced this early in the story, but I really, really hope that the "Dax" spoiler will be dropped at some point to prevent any new Tenno from being confused when they reach TWW, and wonder why the Tenno is so shocked at hearing something they've known since pretty much right after waking up. It's a shame to see the story undermining itself like this, in my opinion. Maybe nobody else will actually care at all, and maybe I'm just a grumpy lore purist since I've been here since the founding of the game, but... Surely they didn't mean to spoil that reveal deliberately.

[strange plinth]

during the teacher, the tenno is still asleep and does not have their memories from before waking up during Awakening. "dax" could be assumed to be a surname. after the tenno recovers some of those memories, the "dax" part is brought up again and they remember, still provoking that reaction
is at least how i've seen it justified

[misty salmon]

Teshin being a Dax should be pretty obvious to anybody who sees him (and knows what a Dax looks like), not a lot of other people running around in kappa hats. Player is unlikely to pick up on it at that point, Tenno may have the memory suppressed (but once the memory is returned it shouldn't be a particular surprise anymore)

[cyan hamlet]

It's still an unnecessary revelation at this point in time, and it's a stretch to say the Tenno doesn't remember. After all, during The Second Dream, the allusion is that, when the waking Tenno says "I thought that I was...", they are referring to their experience 'playing the game' up to that point. Implying they remember events prior to TSD, but not necessarily Awakening (despite them immediately sharing knowledge about what Tenno School they were a part of, memories from the Zariman 10-0 journey, and Tau.)

I don't like to stretch things just to cover up a simple mistake, if that's all it is.

[pallid spoke]

It really feels like DE outright forgot about that scene in War Within, or it was Sumo Digital's fault.

[strange turtle]

It’s never really indicated but probably not because you specifically as the player character can get requests from Loka or work with the Red Veil and Perrin even if you should be a hated enemy of them according to the Syndicate system, and they also get significant support from the Tenno and have bases in their Relays

[cyan hamlet]

That's part of what I thought, since DE said in the first place that the quest was outsourced... but Reb did the voice lines, so I would have thought she would catch it if it was an accident.

Considering Lotus never even mentions it again, whatsoever, in the lead-up to the encounter with the Queens (while questioning whether or not he can be trusted), even she doesn't seem to realize, or at least indicate, that Teshin's loyalty is an unknown quantity over him being a Dax. Especially since he's supposed to be the last one (which, to be fair, they already retconned with Varzia.)

I dunno. I just don't think it's the best way to spoil a great story beat like that.

[strange plinth]

him being dax is irrelevant until its revealed that the queens have the Scepter That Can Control Dax
lotus wasn't even sure if the queens existed for a while during that quest iirc

[stiff beacon]

besides new players will probably forget about "dax" as a phrase

until TWW

[ashen pulsar]

yeah, even with how quickly you can get to TWW (what is it, like 6 hours straight?) its not as significant of a reveal at the beginning to be that memorable.

[cyan hamlet]

Counting on players to forget something is not the way to address plot holes.

[humble sierra]

Good odds it's just reused assets, but nice catch!

[pallid spoke]

I mean, you could argue that the Operator is more reacting to the dialogue between Teshin and the Queens in that scene, wouldn't be the first time that an update indirectly changes how a previous story scene is portrayed.

[restive river]

I believe the original intention was the discovery he was a dax

[pallid spoke]

But it's 100% an oversight.

[restive river]

Tbh it may have been better to have Teshin mention the Dax during the quest with no mention of his relation

[strange plinth]

can always go mention it in https://discord.com/channels/552966801558863896/1427805970091999252
the placement of it is a little weird but i'm still not sure it breaks anything

[cyan hamlet]

It doesn't hurt the narrative of Warframe for Teshin to be identified as a Dax in The Teacher.

It does hurt the continuity of conversation, where it's very clear the surprising part is that Teshin is a Dax, when revealed specifically in TWW. Not "No, Teshin Dax... you're with them?" The emphasis is on "Dax" in the script and in the voice acting for a reason. One reveal or the other reveal can be absolutely fine as the first, but it's really a big stretch to make them both the canonical first reveal, just my two cents.

[pallid spoke]

It'd be easy enough for them to just splice "Dax" out of the voiceline in The Teacher if it was actually a mistake that somehow went unnoticed.

[strange plinth]

ok after reading this and your message in the megathread, i do understand the issue more
not necessarily the reveal of it, just the different reveals of it. i'd still say it kinda makes sense if the operator doesn't realize exactly what "Dax" means until TWW, but if it is a mistake/oversight/whatever, then it could be corrected

[lean garden]

its possible that its been recontextualised to have the operator click in their head that the Dax moniker is not for show

[crystal vigil]

anyone know the lore between nokko and yareli?

[misty salmon]

art department lore says they're siblings and continuity seems willing to go along with it

[crystal vigil]

😝 waw i fw that

[strange plinth]

yea h that's about it
yareli shows up in nokko's idles but there's nothing else tmk

[misty salmon]

My understanding (somewhat dramatized) is that somebody scribbled "yareli's younger brother" on a piece of concept art as a theme/style inspiration for the modelling and animation team, and they decided it was entirely literal. By the time it got back to Reb's office they had this dancing yareli animation and nobody was willing to cut that.

[crystal vigil]

😭 beautiful

[restive river]

One of his anims has him ride a k drive
I bet Yareli taught him tricks :]

[strange plinth]

ah cool
still yet to get him or pay attention to the ones i see around

[calm osprey]

Undermines stuff: ||did I miss something or was Nightcap’s death just seemed like it came out of nowhere||

[lean garden]

I mean, its how the story goes

nightcap, a solaris gets into a firefight, theres a very good chance he got hit

[glossy heath]

Any hypothesis been thrown around about baro acting so strangly after his latest trip into the void? His marker is even red this time. I sense more to this plot. I haven't played teacher yet forgive me if it's related.

[strange plinth]

it is not
i haven't heard all of his lines but i figure he's just being weird about his previous deal w/ wally

[glossy heath]

His previous deal?

[strange plinth]

he made a deal w/ wally on one of his void expeditions to merge all of the baros into one baro
it was to explain the syncing of baro when crossplay happened, as they were different per-platform previously

[glossy heath]

I knew of the cross-platform merging . But not the one baro

[stiff fable]

I just figured this was a Drifter-esque Baro

One that made the wish and got something else

[viscid aspen]

So i just played The Teacher and Lotus' line to the Treasurer about the Tenno being back is hype, but it raised questions for me.

Aren't the Tenno kind of known to be around before the Chosen Operator (aka us) is awakened by Lotus at the start of the game? Cause Vor was going around the system killing tenno before Lotus found us. Was the Chosen Operator then the first awakened Tenno post-collapse, with others following soon after?

[stiff fable]

Yesn't

They're back but not organized

[viscid aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/adele-reaction-adele-confused-jiminjimin-adele-funny-gif-24314933

[stiff fable]

Teshin implies that there have been fakes and people claiming the name during the big sleep as well

[viscid aspen]

Right i noticed that too, the "mimic" line

Sidenote the ost for the quest is so good

[strange plinth]

would've been merged into the One Baro, no?
that would still leave the "how'd he get into this reality" bit if not though

[stiff fable]

The Void is a pathway to powers that many would consider... unnatural

[viscid aspen]

Is it possible to learn this power?

[stiff fable]

Not from the Lotus

Man, ALL the prequel memes fit into Warframe contexts distressingly well

[pallid spoke]

It's actually just music from Teshin's mission in New War.

They reused it.

Doesn't make it any less good though.

[restive river]

The dude from Styanax’s leverian/animation kinda matches that, he has lotus symbols everywhere and used children to try and control his infested monster iirc

[stiff fable]

Insightful!

[misty salmon]

Vor's definitely been hunting down warframes before us too, including at least semi-active ones as he has things on hand to limit their abilities. He might have been just dealing with 'ferals', or maybe we just got lucky with the Lotus managing to contact us in time. "Tenno! Wake up! I've finally got the radio working in here."

[humble sierra]

I've noticed some motifs that are also in the Duviri Paradox OST

Really clever

[fluid scarab]

Guys i have one question?
Wtf is wrong with him?
Why he is acting like that?
Why he is saying creepy stuff?!

[restive river]

1. We don’t know, prob cause spooky month
2. We don’t know, prob cause spooky month
3. Some of what he says relates to our deal with the man in the wall as well as Baro’s deal with said man in the wall

To be clear Baro’s deal caused all versions of himself to collapse into one, singular, perfect Baro
So this is def our Baro, he may have just thought about things and he’s haunted by his choices

[fluid scarab]

Thank you for the information and the patience

I didn't know about his deal with wally😅
I thought he was just a very skilled void traveler and was the only capable to "avoid " being caught by wally

[restive river]

a majority of people do not encounter Wally, if one does it's for a reason

Albrecht was the first encounter so no real defined reason beyond Albrecht's fear likely having a hand in why he is the way he is now
Yonta saw him prior to the jump, his big finger was there and he may have planned the failure so it makes sense
He approached us with a deal
He mocks Loid cause Albrecht likes him
Uses Russalka to get at Albrecht and us
And for Baro the real reason they met was for crossplay irc, just a fun explanation for why all Baros were synced now (they're all one dude)

[humble sierra]

Baro also probably willingly frequents the Void more than anyone else does, even if it's just the "safe" towers

[restive river]

Us and him

[pale cedar]

Sometimes together

Void raid mission thing

[raw stone]

I kinda wanna talk abt the entire deepmines for a mo' in general. Did ypu know all the corpus units we face in there have mushrooms growing on them?

Kinda worried if they're piloting themselves still in those rigs. Especially the Moas. Gotta wonder if the progress from Nef's attempts are being hindered by just how... aggressive those mushrooms are growing on those units.

[pale cedar]

They’re Infested
Not that Infested but indeed Infested

[raw stone]

Yeah mushroom-afflicted

But if they're afflicted (gonna refer to mushroom infected as afflicted.) What's the diff between Nightcap's affliction since... its implied that He's reanimated with mushrooms, and then the corpus afflicted?

[restive river]

Do we know the undermind isn’t infestation?

[strange turtle]

The guys are counted as Infested instead of Infestation

[restive river]

I’m unsure if anything says in-game but when they showed it on stream Rebb did say something about it being a decayed infested

[raw stone]

Not yet but those mushrooms are all over Vrnus

[pale cedar]

They’re listed as Infested not Infestation in codex

[restive river]

So
What are the mushrooms then, I mean mushrooms but what else? They don’t seem to be normal mushrooms

They’re very old too, we know that

[pale cedar]

Some sort of Infested that isn’t Infestation

[restive river]

Also Nokko is connected to them but a frame being a hybrid isn’t new, he is more connected though

[ocean geyser]

Bro is spores squared

[strange turtle]

IIRC the guy says they’re essential for the ecosystem

[raw stone]

Wait they're under the infested tab?

[ocean geyser]

A seperate infested

[restive river]

Do we know it’s not infestation, like are they specifically stated to be distinct

[raw stone]

So a new faction classification?

[strange turtle]

Which makes me feel like they’re from the colonisation period, rather than something happening after

[ocean geyser]

So
Infested
But not
Infested

[pale cedar]

They’re listed as Infested but you can’t find them in the Infestation tab so it is seemingly something new

[raw stone]

Okay. Okay. Okay I HAVE SOMETHING TO PREDICT, can I have the floor?

[restive river]

Infested because the shrooms are infesting them, it sounds like it’s not cause they are infestation

Unless they are just
A weird strain of the infestation

[raw stone]

I think whatever those shrooms in Venus are, they're dormant when we first arrive for Solaris U,

And as DE said with Vallis Undermind, the planet is re-warming up. There might be a possible idea for an event regarding the Undermind growing out of control?

[restive river]

They def were active enough to continue what they were doing, but I can see Ballas warming things up as why the Undermind is active now

[raw stone]

That's really all I was thinking about. That's what I came to a conclusion when you guys brought up the Infested stuff with their code

[restive river]

They’re also really really old so them being part of the colonization makes sense

The Orokin may have used multiple methods to terraform venus, including the mushrooms

[raw stone]

Wonder though... if the Undermind is a child of the Infested. Like you know, descendant strains? We know Techrot originated sometime on Earth. Maybe they were made to withstand the harsh temperatures of Venus?

[restive river]

We don’t know what the Undermind’s connection to the infestation is beyond Nokko exists

If it’s a separate strain it was likely made

[pale cedar]

It just seems that Infestation isn’t the only thing that can infest you now

[restive river]

Which considering it’s vital role, it was probably made just for this

[restive river]

I’m still asking if we have anything that states the shrooms aren’t infeststion

[raw stone]

Hmn... How far ago do you think Nokko existed? Do you think... maybe Nokko was infested by the Undermind or? The Prince's story feels like he named Nokko

[silk atlas]

Do we have anything stating they are?

[raw stone]

Dunno. At least until Nokko Prime gets made with a Ballas narration? Possibly?

[restive river]

Rebb calls it a “decay infestation” in the devstream

[restive river]

Old war like every other frame

[raw stone]

Oh yea.

[pale cedar]

Syzygy are listed as Infested (Not Infestation) which is all we know

[restive river]

What will be confusing is if Ballas will call him Nokko

Cause
Nokko is his NEW name

[raw stone]

Yea

[restive river]

The name his friend gave him
So
How that gonna work

[raw stone]

Oh. Oh yeah.

[silk atlas]

Or they just Xaku him and don't have a narration

[raw stone]

Didn't Xaku get a prime trailer tho?

[hollow siren]

nope

[silk atlas]

No

[restive river]

Rebb calls it a “decay infestation”
Best I got so far

[raw stone]

A

[restive river]

I WISH

[pale cedar]

DE know if they don’t want to explain it or can’t explain it they just won’t

[silk atlas]

I know because everyone and their mother wanted clarification on how they work

[raw stone]

I think I was thinking of Rev prime who did

[restive river]

Also Xaku is still Xaku, the lost frames are like
Lost lost lol

[silk atlas]

Which is bull because it would've been so easy to explain off Xaku Prime

[restive river]

Albrecht:

[silk atlas]

Not even

[restive river]

Xaku’s literally made to fit into the entrati family

[cyan hamlet]

I have a theory that the frames making up Xaku were the ones destroyed during Ivara's Leverian story.

[hollow siren]

Xaku Prime could have the exact same lore as base Xaku and it would've worked out

[restive river]

They have abilities that are literal voidtongue requiems

[hollow siren]

They were sent into the Void as part of a long series of Entrati experiments, the three Lost never returned

[restive river]

Only works if copies of those frames went on to go void expeditions, which iirc the point of that story was the survivor gets to go on

[silk atlas]

Yeah the three from Ivara were just trashed after they died

[restive river]

That’s under the idea that the lost frames also got primes and the exact same thing happened

Albrecht recreating them but primed seems more feasible to me
Also again
Very entrati coded

[cyan hamlet]

Doesn't it strike you as odd, though, that three individual frames have void tongue (in other words, Void/Wally-relates) abilities, when no other frames share such a close relation in their powers?

[silk atlas]

Or just, Ballas realized Xaku was gas and then claimed to have designed them himself by giving Xaku a Prime. No one would know better

[restive river]

Yeah but he’s stinky and Albrecht is a void scientist who knows how to make frames, plus it was on his property

[cyan hamlet]

It would be like saying three generic swordsman frames went into the void with similar powers, got shattered, and some of the pieces were put back together into Excalibur.

[hollow siren]

Pretty much all of Xaku's abilities have Voidtongue names, not just the Lost. So it's fully possible those abilities were not Void-based at first

[restive river]

What

[silk atlas]

There'd be no reason for any of the three original frames to have Void based abilities anyway because... They're not from the Void

[restive river]

Xata’s whisper is voidtongue
Grasp of Lohk is voidtongue
The Lost, Gaze, Accuse, Deny are not voidtongue but do appear in a reqiuem
And the Vast Untime relates to the void

[hollow siren]

As in, Accuse may not have been Void-based when the Lost who originally had it still lived, it's just that Xaku uses Void to do that ability

[cyan hamlet]

See, that's what I'm thinking. The idea that their powers themselves have been altered by the void into a cohesive kit means more than just the original identities have been overwritten. Their very powers have been.

Which sort of sounds like what Helminth can do for us, which kind of backs up the fact that Warframe powers are more malleable than one would originally assume.

[restive river]

I mean maybe, the Lost still relates to the requiems and thus void tongue but def is about the lost frames
But also they all just are void things, especially gaze and accuse iirc

[hollow siren]

yeah, I'm saying their relation to Void and Requiems may only be a thing for Xaku, and wasn't there for those original three frames

[restive river]

For the Lost powers, yes
For the rest of their powers idk, Xaku is specifically stated to have mastery over the void not the powers they had are altered

Them being a product of the void is how they have mastery over the void

[restive river]

Oh yeah, probably
The Lost is weird cause it isn’t directly one way or the other so that makes sense

[hollow siren]

like Xaku's shell still carries the "memory" of their original abilities, so Xaku effectively recreates those but using Void

[restive river]

Conceptual embodiment!

[hollow siren]

like Deny could've been a regular blaster, Gaze could've been something more alike to Nyx's Mind Control etc.

but Xaku uses Void to effectively mimic those old abilities their progenitors had

[restive river]

Meanwhile Xata’s whisper is just
Literally the truth of warframe’s power (powered by the void through the heart of deimos)
Grasp of lohk is just grabbing with the void
And Vast Untime relates to time working weird in the void and also exploding all their skin off

Instead of normal mind control they now do what the void fissures do

[cyan hamlet]

Xaku seems to be more of a golem of a golem, irrelevant pieces around a new core that possesses abilities unrelated to the pieces. None of the other Warframes who have "skeletal" pieces have the skeleton sort of form Xaku does while the Vast Untime is active. If anything, that internal skeleton is the Void-construct, and everything else on top is essentially irrelevant entirely. The powers are from that core, since every one of them can be used without the armor.

[restive river]

Which it’s funny cause
All abilities are powered by the void anyway so it’s kinda just a more raw version of the abilities?

[hollow siren]

Handheld taser vs. actual lightning

[cyan hamlet]

Pretty sure Xaku is, essentially, a construct on the level the Holdfasts are, just happens to be one in the shadow of a form Tenno can control.

[restive river]

The void construct is the void tendrils, the skeleton is likely just from a frame as all warframes would have a skeleton (to some degree/at some point)

[hollow siren]

"Cycle through a trio of lost Warframe powers."

[cyan hamlet]

But that skeleton can use all four powers of the kit. It's not that Xaku loses the ability to use powers related to the armor pieces when they aren't present.

[restive river]

I’d say you’re close
They def involve conceptual embodiment but they’re also the literal pieces of the lost frames, they both are physically pieces of warframes and a void construct

[cyan hamlet]

The powers are tied to the core, not the parts. Even if the original owners in The Lost have an echo, an imprint, in the final product.

[hollow siren]

Xaku the entity is pretty much the Void possessing these Warframe remains

[restive river]

If the powers are through conceptual embodiment it doesn’t really matter
Also why is the skeleton connected to the abilities?

[cyan hamlet]

I'm having a silly image my head of Xaku as a bagworm.

[restive river]

I think you’re overthinking it a tad

If any frame has conceptual embodiment related powers it’s Xaku
So no part of the original frame needs to necessarily be there

[cyan hamlet]

Right, so, chicken, egg. Khra, time, not really a thing in the void.

[restive river]

You’re also ignoring Xaku Prime literally being 99% void energy when in “skeletal” form

[restive river]

My point is that all that needs to be there is the emotions and concepts tied to the lost’s abilities
Which Xaku, mentally does seem to be more than one, skeletal mode or not
Their pieces are def from the other frames but their minds are all one

If anything your theory of a core would more so relate to what’s left of their mind, not their physical skeleton

[cyan hamlet]

In other words, by that technicality, the "essence" of the Warframe Xaku, as a void construct, can exist independently of the three Warframes whose parts make up the outside shell. Fully functional without them, but The Lost directly echoes the original frames behind those parts. This implies that there's a chronological aspect at work, that either Xaku came first and was altered by exposure to the three frames' demise, or Xaku was formed in the Void in the aftermath.

[restive river]

Xaku WAS formed in the void in the aftermath

[cyan hamlet]

Think of it like this, since we have another perfect example of what I'm talking about. Voruna.

[restive river]

The three frames went on a void expedition, didn’t come back, Xaku did

[cyan hamlet]

Voruna's powers were altered, by her, in the aftermath of the events of her Leverian story.

[restive river]

The lost frames are separate from Xaku because Xaku is a multitude as a singular entity

[cyan hamlet]

Xaku is more like... A hermit crab, with a cobbled together shell.

[restive river]

The Lost is likely echoes of who their pieces were and mentally, again, they seem to not be entirely stable, more than kne

[cyan hamlet]

It's still the same hermit crab when it's not in the shell.

[restive river]

Ok
We have a perfect example that the game even references for what Xaku is

The Lotus

She was one
And became a multitude, three as one

That’s Xaku
Three that is now one

I would absolutely say there’s a reason they gave the Lotus a matching deluxe skin with Xaku

[hollow siren]

The same process but reversed, too. Lotus died and was reborn a multitude, the Lost were a multitude who died and have now been indirectly reborn as one

[restive river]

And them both being very similar in what they are mentally is that reason

[cyan hamlet]

Lotus, Natah originally, is a Sentient, to whom the Void is poison. Programmed, changed, altered, as an artificial lifeform. Warframes are based on original organic lifeforms, which makes them different, and a Void construct like Xaku is a third thing entirely.

[restive river]

Yeah pretty much!

Xaku is both a singular and a multitude as one
It’s weird but that’s what they are

[cyan hamlet]

At a core level, these things are different. Lotus has multiple personality disorder from all the layers forced into her shell artificially.

[hollow siren]

Post-TNW Lotus is a system, all three of her "selves" effectively co-exist within her

[restive river]

Xaku is not purely a void construct though

[hollow siren]

she is a fundamentally different person now than before TNW

Hunhow warned us of it

[restive river]

They’re no more a secret third thing than Nokko or Caliban tbh

[restive river]

Death changes sentients

[hollow siren]

Nokko is by far the secretest third thing cause he is potentially a Warframe-shaped fungus rather than an actual Warframe

[restive river]

Also like
The heavy trauma and gaslighting from Ballas and her literal sibling

[restive river]

Yeah, I still wanna know if the fungus is just a fungus or if it’s also infestation
Literally the only thing I can find is what Rebb said in passing, nothing in game 😭

[cyan hamlet]

So. Let's go back to another kind of known Void Construct in the Holdfasts.

What are they? They know they're technically dead, no longer the original person that they were, but the Void spun them back into existence from... The Void.

That's what a Void Construct is, the same as the things we see in the Circuit.

[hollow siren]

yeah her "death" is in multiple ways, both a literal death and a more symbolic one as her old self has "died" as she's rejected her past grievances

[restive river]

Conceptually embodied Void ghost memories of people who died

[cyan hamlet]

If Xaku is a Void Construct, then it stands to reason it would be a "thing" made by the Void, not a thing from outside the Void altered to be what the Void wanted it to look like. Wearing garments woven from the outside.

[hollow siren]

It's either an Orokin creation to filter waste, or it just evolved naturally and has integrated Orokin aspects into itself as it's processed them, and neither can be fully confirmed yet

[restive river]

Xaku is literally three warframes walked into the void, died, walked back out held together by and wielding the void

[hollow siren]

They explicitly state their own deaths in the quest

They even die again during the quest

[restive river]

I like the terraforming theory

[pale cedar]

Xaku isn’t a Void construct Xaku just went into the Void and got fused

[restive river]

In case you’ve never seen this before
Xaku’s old, and as far as I’m concerned still canon, description

[hollow siren]

Nightcap describing the Undermind as being "older" than Orokin seems to support it being a naturally evolved thing, since the "older" aspect likely ties to just the old planets that have existed long before the Orokin altered them

[cyan hamlet]

I counter that Xaku is a Void constructed entity meant to be a wolf in sheep's clothing, made by the Void within the Void, clothed in the remains of original Warframes and spat back in their stead into real space.

[hollow siren]

still weird how none of the old descriptions are on the wiki, and the description change is never even mentioned there either

[restive river]

The void does not do anything by itself, so
No

[cyan hamlet]

Holdfasts? Duviri? Indifference?

[restive river]

If anything Xaku is the result of the Lost frames emotions interacting with the void and bringing them together as one being

[hollow siren]

All of those are cases of Void reacting to outside influence of Reality

[restive river]

Holdfast’s origin is unknown, likely Wally though
Duviri was. Literally made by the Drifter, we literally SEE it happen.
Wally’s origins are more difficult but it sounds like he was nothing until Albrecht came along

[cyan hamlet]

Duviri is the shadow of a storybook created in the Void. Is the construct from outside? No, from inside, but the inspiration on which it is formed is from the outside, not the inside.

[hollow siren]

Yep, it's a hermit crab if the shell itself grew claws and legs

[restive river]

The void does not do things on it’s own, it reacts to concepts and emotions like a chemical reaction

[cyan hamlet]

My point is that there is absolutely a give and take behind Xaku. The Void did create a thing in the shadow of the event where the original frames were lost.

[hollow siren]

Duviri formed from the Drifter's mind as they'd read Tales of Duviri aboard the Zariman. It's the biggest confirmed case of Conceptual Embodiment we have

[restive river]

The Drifter made Duviri while they were in the void, Duviri didn’t just happen cause a book was made.

[restive river]

It didn’t though, the void doesn’t do things by itself.

[cyan hamlet]

Correct. Thanks to a deal with Wally, different from the Operator.

[restive river]

There’s always something that causes it, a concept, an emotion

[cyan hamlet]

See: The Indifference faction.

[hollow siren]

Which Loid theorizes is the Void mimicing human anatomy

[restive river]

See: we don’t actually know Wally’s origin.

[restive river]

Oh it def is
Wally is just doing his best to be like us

We don’t actually know for certain if Wally existed BEFORE Albrecht fell in

[cyan hamlet]

"We end as we began."

Determine how we began, and we know how we end. Determine how we end, and we know how we began. I believe we can theorize on Wally's origins.

[restive river]

And we know when he did Wally was there

[silk atlas]

The deal was only that the children were saved, anything after was solely just Drifter being stuck in the Void and doesn't really have to do with Wally besides "yeah he's related to the Void in some way"

[restive river]

Theorizing is not fact, I can theorize Wally didn’t exist in any meaningful state prior to Albrecht but nothing confirms that
We don’t actually know his origins

Yes there can be theories so good they’re just an inch away from being proven

Wally isn’t that

[cyan hamlet]

The Man in the Wall is desire. Desire to be more than Indifferent, yet the incapability of being anything else due to a lack of substance, of life, life driven by things like love. Devoid of this (see what I did there?), the Void can only ever be a reflection of the consequences of emotion, not of the underpinning elements that make those things alive.

[restive river]

And we will never actually have his proper origins either so
We won’t even get to know

[cyan hamlet]

It desires friends. Belonging. Meaning. Purpose. A place.

But what are all of these things without the ability to feel why they are important?

The Man in the Wall.

[silk atlas]

I think you're just losing the plot here.

[restive river]

Yeah

[silk atlas]

Like what even is this all about

[cyan hamlet]

As Time doesn't exist in any meaningful way within the Void, and on the outside, we already deal with time travel and eternalism, events related to the Void can transcend linear time. How else does current Wally get back to 1999, if not by going "where it cannot easily follow"?

[restive river]

Anyway
Xaku isn’t a void construct and the void doesn’t just do things without something causing it

[hollow siren]

This isn't theorizing this is preaching

[cyan hamlet]

It's a discussion.

[restive river]

We dealt with
One
Eternalism event
A singular one

[silk atlas]

Oh yeah another example of something like this, the Zariman Incarnon guns

[restive river]

The palimpsest of spacetime is completely overshadowed by this meme of a concept

[restive river]

YEAH

[hollow siren]

Speaking of Zariman, I really hope we get an original pre-Void Hespar since we'll have the Prime Grineer with Gotva Prime

[silk atlas]

The Void alone is a whole nothing. That's why it's Void. What people bring up inside of there is what causes it to do wacky stuff

[restive river]

Wasn’t it a farming tool like the praedos?

That’s why it’s a scythe iirc

[cyan hamlet]

So, here's what's getting lost in this back and forth.

The entity, the Man in the Wall, that has mimics in the shape of Entrati and the Operator... What are those? The Incarnon weapons are based upon physical, tangible objects.

What is the figure that resembles Entrati? What is the figure that says "Hey kiddo"? What tangible object are they based on?

[restive river]

The only thing it “does” without anyone else is have energy, which it only had after Albrecht fell in

Albrecht made the void useful

[hollow siren]

Well it's paired with Aeolak, which is the Void-born memory of Gotva Prime; weapons used by the Prime Grineer.

So logically the Prime Grineer should have had a scythe weapon too

Whose memory the Hespar was created from

[cyan hamlet]

The Aeolak is in the hands of Void Construct Thrax enemies, as is the Hespar.

[hollow siren]

Those are memories of the Prime Grineer recreated by the Void

[cyan hamlet]

Or at the very least, something based on the visual models for those weapons.

[hollow siren]

That's why all their descriptions mention them feeling familiar

[silk atlas]

No one said it necessarily had to be a tanglible thing. For Duviri and Wally, the key was emotions. For Xaku's case and stuff like Incarnons, it just was just a physical object that was reshaped by the Void.

[restive river]

Conceptual embodiment is not exclusive to tangible objects, see: literally duviri.

Wally is, if nothing else, somewhat made or influenced by Albrecht’s fear, of his emotions and the concepts in his mind at that moment.

[cyan hamlet]

Right... But they aren't the original familiar things.

[cyan hamlet]

Precisely. So the fact that things can be tangible and touched by the Void into something new, and separately be created by the Void, based on something else, exist simultaneously.

[restive river]

Heck Grasp of Lohk isn’t even based on tangible objects unless you interpret the theft of the weapons as conceptually embodying them

[hollow siren]

idek what your point is. We see Prime Grineer use Gotva Prime in the original WF trailer since long before Zariman released. Then after Zariman released we got Gotva Prime as a usable weapon. We still don't have whatever weapon the Thrax Grineer's Hespar was born from

[restive river]

I don’t think you know how conceptual embodiment works
It does not need the thing to be tangible.

[cyan hamlet]

But we have the Void Constructed version of the Gotva Prime, the Aeolak. As a separate item.

[hollow siren]

Aeolak is born from the Zariman crew's memories of Gotva Prime

[restive river]

The incarnons get that way due to IDEAS of how the weapons can be improved, not just the weapons.

[hollow siren]

Yes, we do. That's exactly why we could get the original scythe that Hespar was born from in the Old Peace

[restive river]

The void takes concepts and emotions, and many concepts in one’s head may be physical tangible things and it makes them real

[silk atlas]

Yes but the argument you were making with Xaku was that the parts that make up Xaku somehow... Weren't the parts and it's some kind of doppelganger Warframe made by the Void

[restive river]

It’d be a farming tool tho

Or wait

No I’m thinking of the new scythe
Yeah no original Hespar would go crazy

[hollow siren]

Prime Grineer used Gotva Prime and some unnamed scythe.

When the memories of Prime Grineer were recreated by the Void aboard the Zariman, the memories of their weapons also were, creating the Aeolak and Hespar.

[cyan hamlet]

If the Aeolak is a Void simulacrum of a Gotva Prime, and is not a Gotva Prime, I argue that the core of Xaku is an Aeolak Warframe to a Gotva Prime of the original parts of the frames that went into the Void.

[restive river]

Also Thrax thought they were really cool and took them in for security lmao

[hollow siren]

https://tenor.com/view/bro-just-typing-shit-atm-man-funny-tiktok-gif-6754206601808444804

[cyan hamlet]

We can still use and mod the Aeolak, no?

[hollow siren]

yes?

[restive river]

Ok
The Aeolak is conceptually embodied
What is Xaku?

How are they conceptually embodied in your view?

[hollow siren]

Yeah, that is literally what we have been saying

[lean garden]

oh thats coming in the Old Peace?

[hollow siren]

Has not been shown or mentioned so far

I'm just hoping

[restive river]

It’d be really cool tho

[silk atlas]

...yes?

[cyan hamlet]

We all hope so, though.

[hollow siren]

the Prime Grineer use Gotva Prime as they should, so I'm just hoping we also get their scythe as a usable weapon

[restive river]

I think I misinterpreted the Hespar as the new Incarnon scythe somewhere along the line
Cause that one was a farming tool

[silk atlas]

I frankly don't care about it because DE just can't be bothered to make Heavy Scythe good as a category

[cyan hamlet]

Needs better stances.

[restive river]

I like the new one
But it’s also just made for influence so
Yeah

[cyan hamlet]

I want the digging tool that Grineer Papa used. My Krieg Shovel in waiting.

[hollow siren]

Yep, it almost seems like its Void-corruption caused it to resemble the actual scythe weapons of the Prime Grineer, hence why its shape is so similar to Hespar

[silk atlas]

Thalys is only good because of its absolutely bloated stats compared to Hespar.

[restive river]

Tbh it’s up there for one of the coolest incarnon forms

[restive river]

Yeah it’s insane on purpose

The other scythes need help

[hollow siren]

Design team were sitting there like "What if we took Hespar and made it even more Void-y"

[restive river]

Help out the gun scythe DE
Please

[restive river]

Hespar before the void gets voided anyway

[lean garden]

the thing about this though, is that the zariman crew should have never known a time when the grineer were armed, so it stills remains a question of how the Aeolak exists.

My take is that since the Thrax are a "development" from dominus (KIV Lodun crying about it) it could have been a case of Dominus taking inspiration from the outside world, perhaps through Albrecht

[restive river]

I do wonder who thought up the Thalys actually, since it’s not on the Zariman could it have been the Drifter? Maybe Acrithis?

[lean garden]

the thalys isnt on the zariman?

[restive river]

It’s in the dormizone technically

Acrithis sells it, not Cav

[hollow siren]

well the Zariman incarnons are physical weapons twisted by the Void, not Void giving form to memories (like Aeolak and Hespar)

[restive river]

Originally Thrax sold it
So maybe it was him?

[cyan hamlet]

The Thrax recreations of Prime Grineer are based on memories from the Tenno in Duviri, hence the literal inclusion of the word Thrax in their name thing them to Duviri.

Which is a contrivance, imo

[lean garden]

what Tenno in duviri?

[restive river]

They’re “oh this would he a cool attatchment/thing” and the void said “deal”

[cyan hamlet]

Since the Drifter would not be related to the Tenno powers until far later

Yet there are Thrax enemies within Duviri. A paradox, hence the name of the quest

[silk atlas]

The Grineer were a thing long before the Tenno, Tri

[restive river]

Nobody in Duviri would know what a Prime Grineer is except maybe Thrax or anyone who spoke to Albrecht

[tall echo]

Arthritis started selling it at the same time

[hollow siren]

"Thrax" is also the name he has in the actual book Tales of Duviri. The term Thrax is not from the Void Duviri exclusively

[restive river]

She did yes, I said it could have been her too

[restive river]

Iirc we first heard it in a leverian

[lean garden]

I dont know where the notion that the Thrax Legatus/Legionnaire come from the tenno comes from

[restive river]

Maybe earlier too
Actually yeah, Thrax toxin

[hollow siren]

Yes, but combat Grineer were only developed after the Sentient/Orokin conflicts began

before that they were just labour clones

[tall echo]

(Partially by accident)

[restive river]

Orokin got so desperate they used the Grineer

[lean garden]

in sum: probably just blame albrecht

[restive river]

Yay more blaming Albrecht :D

[hollow siren]

A Grineer asteroid miner managed to kill a Sentient, so before he died they took his genes and developed the combat Grineer genome from them

[cyan hamlet]

Right, so, Wally would only have one possible connection to add anachronistic, "future" Prime Grineer to the "past" of the original Zariman journey, which happened before the war with the Sentients, and therefore before the first Grineer killed a Sentient with a spade and was cloned into oblivion. At least, as far as I see it, the only connection to the Tenno's past on the Zariman is through the Tenno themselves.

[restive river]

Bro had a shovel

[hollow siren]

said genome is what the current Grineer have long since lost, so they've deteriorated and rotted

[cyan hamlet]

A Tenno on the Zariman would not have seen a Prime Grineer yet, because they would not yet exist

[tall echo]

They took his jeans

[lean garden]

or like yknow, that few times someone entered Duviri from the Old War

[cyan hamlet]

Yet the Holdfasts claim the ship is being shaped by the Tenno's return.

[cyan hamlet]

Through the Void, a.k.a. Wally is a taxi

[restive river]

The Zariman is kinda just weird cause it’s also a multitude

[cyan hamlet]

The fun part of paradoxes, no?

[restive river]

Void + trauma = bad ):

[lean garden]

okay adding that randomly doesnt change the fact that its going against the whole "the only way wally could have added prime grineer was through the future tenno"

also there seems to be a strong conflation between the Void as a realm and Wally as an entity

[cyan hamlet]

Not the only way he could have added them. The logical route whereby he would have considered them important enough to sprinkle across his domains.

[lean garden]

Duviri ain't even Wally's domain

[cyan hamlet]

Because just as Wally is obsessed with Albrecht, he's obsessed with the bargain with the Operator.

[lean garden]

Wally keeps trying to invade Duviri

[cyan hamlet]

Which is within the Void. Wally's domain. It's its own little bubble, yes.

[lean garden]

hell we literally had an operation to beat back wally in his latest attempt on Duviri

[tall echo]

By the void my internet is struggling

[cyan hamlet]

See: The Undercroft.

[lean garden]

so that just defeats your point, because the thrax are from Duviri

[cyan hamlet]

So why are they in the Zariman? Is it maybe because it's been in the void for a while?

[restive river]

Isn’t the closest we see of anything Wally there the mission to prevent angels from getting in

[tall echo]

Zariman is directly connected to duviri

[cyan hamlet]

Teshin calls the boundary thinnest there, to the Void outside.

[lean garden]

Its like saying that The Vatican is under Italy's domain because theyre in Rome when the Vatican is its own sovereign state

[restive river]

Yes
Because it is

We are consistently stopping Wally’s forces

[cyan hamlet]

So I'm not sure where the confusion is.

[restive river]

Which we don’t even know if they actually are his or if teshin is just yapping
Cause
How would he know

[cyan hamlet]

Bit of an unrelated concept, as the authority of Vatican City predates the modern Rome around it.

[cyan hamlet]

Teshin does seem a little forgetful at times

[restive river]

It’s not even about being forgetful, he says the angels have a master

[hollow siren]

He's probably experienced more years in Duviri than outside of it by this point

[restive river]

That implies angels got in at some point tho

[lean garden]

Its extremely related, you arbitrarily decided that things that come from Duviri mean that theyre from Wally. Which is essentially saying what comes out of the Vatican belong to italy because the Vatican is its own bubble in italy

[restive river]

How does he know this
Or
He doesn’t and is just talking

[silk atlas]

He likely just doesn't know

[restive river]

Yeah

[tall echo]

Imagine if teshin was only there for a year but bc he's wise duviri quick-aged him

[restive river]

Being mysterious to be mysterious

[lean garden]

born to be fit, forced to be old

[cyan hamlet]

Duviri is a space within the Void created by the Drifter. The Void predates Duviri.

Vatican City is the seat of the Western Roman Empire from ancient history. The Holy Roman Empire predates Italy.

[restive river]

He knows of angels but Wally being their master has unfortunately yet to be seen really

[restive river]

Why does Wally have to sneak in through Mathila if it’s his domain

[tall echo]

Duviri is outside of wally's control because wally isn't an omnipotent void god

[cyan hamlet]

Because he didn't make Duviri. It's ruled by the Drifter, with boundaries set up in a deal with Wally that Wally keeps trying to renege on.

[hollow siren]

Quinn did say at one point that "the indifference calls"

[restive river]

He’s just a guy made by a scared old blue guy

[hollow siren]

Yeah, that's what we're saying to you

[tall echo]

Yeh

[lean garden]

Ok and this talk about predating is a non-issue because all of them are still sovereign entities. regardless who came first youre still claiming that duviri, which you yourself state is its own bubble, is under wally's control

[tall echo]

nokia ringtone intensifies

[restive river]

Duviri wasn’t made because of the deal?

Duviri was a result AFTER the deal, not because of it

[cyan hamlet]

Being within the boundaries of his domain is not the same thing as being under his control. Washington D.C. falls inside the boundaries of Virginia and Maryland, but it's a separate district.

[hollow siren]

Duviri was formed by CE from the Drifter's mind. There was no Deal involved

[lean garden]

ok so why would the Thrax belong to wally then, because they belong to Dominus

[cyan hamlet]

Why would Dominus Thrax be unable to control his own warriors in the event that saw him as a vendor?

[restive river]

All Wally did was give kids powers for funsies, in one version they didn’t include the person who’s hand he shook

[hollow siren]

Because said event was Wally taking control of Duviri from Thrax

[tall echo]

Are there any hostile thrax in the triumph of dust spiral

[hollow siren]

Thrax had limited control still

[restive river]

Wally was in the throne??

[restive river]

I don’t believe so

[lean garden]

not only that, Wally was trying to override duviri with a false one, which we beat back with a really big stick

[restive river]

In fact
THEY HELP US

[cyan hamlet]

And I'm saying the Thrax we see in the Zariman aren't out there because Dominus Thrax sent them out there to mess with us. Are they? Is that implied anywhere?

[tall echo]

Thrax retained control over his soldiers

[restive river]

Or they just have free will to some extent

[tall echo]

It's duviri leaking into the connected space

[restive river]

Like maybe they’re still
Kinda people?

[restive river]

The Zariman do be plugging a void hole directly into Duviri

[cyan hamlet]

I'm curious myself about the Thrax soldiers and Dax constructs, because they are capable of speech, taunting us in battle frequently.

[tall echo]

There's a lost thrax dax on lua too

[cyan hamlet]

So they seem to have at least some human awareness.

[restive river]

Like the citizens

[cyan hamlet]

But they aren't made by Dominus, they're made... For him.

[restive river]

They’re likely a sort of analog to real dax

[cyan hamlet]

See, I see their origin as being from Wally, to give Dominus muscle to fill the role of the King's Soldiers from the storybook

[restive river]

If we can conceptually embody a whole Kingdom of people then he can conceptually embody some soldiers of the same or similar mental level

[tall echo]

Senator armstrong moment

[hollow siren]

The storybook has actual Dax soldiers yeah, the ones in Void Duviri are like recreations of those storybook Dax

[cyan hamlet]

Which is what implies there being rules in place that even Wally can't cross

[restive river]

Except when he does but that’s when someone lets him in

Except when he does even when they don’t (see Chains of Harrow)

[cyan hamlet]

What's interesting to me is the paradox behind it. The Drifter is emblematic of taking control away from Wally over part of his own domain.

[silk atlas]

If CE can create Dominus and his cohorts and all the other citizens... Why wouldn't it just also make the soldiers?

[cyan hamlet]

I.e. the Drifter essentially creating Duviri and growing up there.

[restive river]

That’s not really what that’s about
It may be turning into that but idk

[restive river]

(Not on purpose)

[cyan hamlet]

Yet, the Thrax soldiers, based on real Dax and Prime Grineer... Dax are mentioned in the logs on board the Zariman, no?

[restive river]

Duviri was also like
A hell for them

[tall echo]

The void isn't really wally's domain, just his home and origin

[restive river]

Like you, me and everyone else with the universe :)

[hollow siren]

The Dax in Void Duviri are based on the fictional Dax soldiers in Tales of Duviri

[tall echo]

Yeh

[silk atlas]

Wally never had control over Duviri before he snuck through to Mathilda, that's what he complains about in the entirety of Isleweaver

[restive river]

He literally needs to sneak in to take control by taking the throne which is what controls duviri

[cyan hamlet]

Right, so Dax would have already been a known quantity when Duviri came into existence, and I'm pretty sure logs on the ship back this up.

So the Thrax Prime Grineer constructs are paradoxical.

Unless they are recent additions.

[tall echo]

Only the fact that they're armed, but yes

[cyan hamlet]

Grineer clones weren't a thing until the war with the Sentients.

[tall echo]

They were

[restive river]

What

They literally were what 😭

[silk atlas]

They were very much a thing, they just weren't combat roles

[tall echo]

Grineer soldiers weren't a thing

[cyan hamlet]

According to the origin story, the first clone was of the one who killed a Sentient with a mining tool, no?

[restive river]

No…

[tall echo]

That was a clone already

[silk atlas]

Hell no

[cyan hamlet]

Ahh.

[restive river]

That was a shovel iirc too

[cyan hamlet]

Then I admit to being mistaken in this regard. I didn't see anything in the log about him being a clone.

[restive river]

Adds to their strength >:)

[spice spade]

https://www.twitch.tv/big_andrewjr

[tall echo]

Grineer were a slave labor race for a long time

[cyan hamlet]

I thought it says he was cloned because of what he did.

I'll have to dive back into those logs.

[hollow siren]

Grineer were labour clones. Combat Grineer were cloned from that Grineer

[lean garden]

(Open chest and defeat its guardian) Lodun: "I TOLD the Imp these Void-sodden travesties were a STUPID idea. 'But they're so strong, Lodun!' Kill one. Take what it's guarding. Prove me right!"

(Open chest and defeat its guardian) Lodun: "That's him. Thrax's enforcer. MY REPLACEMENT. For two pins, I'd come down there and smash his face in myself! But I can't, so you have to. Help yourself to his chest."

It seems to me that its entirely plausible that the Thrax were introduced later, so theres room for them to have been introduced when anyone from the Old War (Like albrecht) came in and started teaching

[tall echo]

The holdfasts, especially cavalero, talk about how dumb it is to give grineer guns

[lean garden]

I mean, thats very likely in response to cavalero seeing that the grineer literally invading his ship have guns

[tall echo]

...yes

[hollow siren]

That's also him noting how much the modern Grineer have degenerated since their prime days

[tall echo]

He's talking about giving what he only knows as laborers guns

[unique talon]

Is there any lore explaining who's the main leader of the arbiters of hexis?

[tall echo]

There's no hexis lore

[unique talon]

Yeah, they're related to us Tenno

[tall echo]

They aren't actually

The arbiters are just fanboys

[unique talon]

I mean..

They're the only ones who don't hate us

[tall echo]

All syndicates don't hate us

[hollow siren]

None of the relay syndicates hates us, that's why they're on the Relays

[tall echo]

Grammar go brrr

[unique talon]

Since they believe they can achieve something greater with the Tenno, does lotus have any influence on them?

[tall echo]

No

[unique talon]

Now this is an intriguing question, the grinners have their queen, Corpus have parvos grannum, the sentients have pazuul, we have the lotus, but what about the infested?

[tall echo]

Hivemind

[mystic lynx]

Infested is infested

They're a hivemind

[tall echo]

Hivemind doesn't need leader

[unique talon]

Hiveminds technically have some sort of leader

Like ants with their queen, bees and etc.

[tall echo]

Also pazuul is narmer not sentients in general

Gotta make the distinction

[unique talon]

Used to be Hunhow, but seems like pazuul took his place

[hollow siren]

There are multiple Infested Hiveminds, the main one is based from Eris

[tall echo]

No :)

[hollow siren]

Pazuul leads the Sentients that follow Narmer. Hunhow's Sentients are separate from that

[tall echo]

That

[unique talon]

Oh I see.. so there are sentients that still follow Hunhow and pazuul

[tall echo]

Multiple that are also only one

[hollow siren]

yes

[unique talon]

Like "separatists"

[tall echo]

We barely see any actual sentients

[unique talon]

What do you mean?

[tall echo]

The enemy sentients are only fragments

No independent thought

[hollow siren]

No, there are multiple separate hiveminds. The main one, the Helminth, the Grey Strain

[tall echo]

Those are strains not minds

The strains all see each other as the same

[hollow siren]

They are Strains and Hiveminds. Arlo is a separate Strain that's still part of the main Hivemind

[tall echo]

.

[unique talon]

Lizzie said that the infested mind is collective, so they all know everything what happens by that logic

I mean.. how pissed off will Hunhow be if he knew that we're going to tau?

[hollow siren]

He will probably be the one who helps us get there

[tall echo]

Hunhow is friend

[hollow siren]

to follow Pazuul and try to free Erra from him

[tall echo]

Yeah, reminder that erra is still alive

[hollow siren]

and if Pazuul gets there by repairing the Solar Rail, Hunhow is likely gonna be one of the first to know of it

[unique talon]

"temporarily ally" that's a good term to describe it

[tall echo]

That was before and during tnw

After tnw hunhow is friend

[unique talon]

So he suddenly stopped hating us?

[tall echo]

It was a process

[hollow siren]

I mean the objective to reach him is literally called "Enemy of my Enemy", and there's a whole scene and dialogue with him showing why he helps us

along with all the dialogue between him and Erra when you're hunting the Archons

[tall echo]

He only hated the tenno for stealing natah, after tnw he realizes natah chose to be the tenno's "mother"

[hollow siren]

add Jade Shadows on top of that

[unique talon]

Then if we're going to tau

He might be a key for it

[tall echo]

A key for what

The solar rail he destroyed?

[hollow siren]

Pazuul has potentially been repairing the rail, hence all the resources and data he has gathered that we try to stop during Archon Hunts

[unique talon]

He broke it, so he can fix it

[tall echo]

I can break a window but idk how to fix it

[unique talon]

So that's pazuul's current objective

[tall echo]

Maybe

[hollow siren]

Could be, we don't know

[unique talon]

I mean, the sentients expressed some desire to go back to tau

[hollow siren]

Narmer's whole ideology is to return to Tau

[unique talon]

And erra wanted to finish a war that ended years ago

[hollow siren]

The Sentients did also build the Solar Rail (at least Tau's end of it)

[tall echo]

Actually, only two orokin and a mentally unstable ram head have

[naive frigate]

I see people say that our crafted warframes are weaker than the originals? Ive literally never heard of this. Is this true?

[strange turtle]

Hunhow is described as a “worldshaper” and “farmer”, while Praghasa was the “carpenter”

[silk atlas]

There's is no difference to a Warframe made from the Foundry versus the "original". Literally none. And no, Primes are not exclusively the originals.

[ocean geyser]

They’re literally referring to the Primes, which are sorta considered the “Original designs”

For the most part ig
That term doesn’t necessarily fit as well anymore

[strange turtle]

It’s more likely that Praghasa would be the one to have that kind of knowledge, while Hunhow would be responsible for terraforming and stuff similar to what they did with the metal flowers in Tau

[woven coyote]

They arent considered the original design no

[ocean geyser]

Used to be
I said sorta for a reason

[strange turtle]

From a line Varzia said, them being the originals is Ballas gassing them up, and it just varied

[opal quest]

Hey so just how strong is nidus in da lore from street tier to cosmic threat where does he stand

[ocean geyser]

Me when my message isn’t read properly

[woven coyote]

Never in lore just in players opinions and theories

Before varzia we only had assumptions from the playerbase that primes were the "originals" but there was never something in game stating primes were the originals

[ocean geyser]

I’m not even gonna bother

[naive frigate]

Thats what i was thinking. Ive seen multiple people say that our crafted warframes are weaker than the "originals" in youtube comments and i have literally never heard such a thing.

[silk atlas]

Because it's made up.

We literally craft Umbra and he's the exact same as before he was obliterated.

[woven coyote]

Memories and all

[ocean geyser]

If it was “our crafted ones are weaker than primes” then that would make marginally more sense since Primes weren’t as easy to manufacture

So idk why people were saying that lmao

[silk atlas]

There's nothing in the game that mentions the difficulty of making them, and if anything Lavos makes it seem like it's a relative sinch assuming the Orokin didn't make it artificially scarce, considering he did it himself

[naive frigate]

Its same as in any franchise. My guess is that people just watch youtube shorts or something and then spout falsehoods that were just made up in the first place lol. Thats what happens with 40k at least

[woven coyote]

Loretubers have a notorious difficulty in separating their headcannon from what's said in game

[ocean geyser]

I’m
Really just going off the fact that Primes are literally not as easy to make compared to their normal ones (… barring specific frames)

[pale cedar]

Stallord has a habit of saying “What we know” then presenting headcanon as fact

[woven coyote]

Honestly my issue isn't even them making mistakes, it's that they don't care enough to update or fix their videos

[pale cedar]

TikTok is the worst place to get Warframe lore as it is the same people who call Nidus the most powerful frame and gives Grendel the feat of being able to eat universes

[naive frigate]

But at the same time, to be fair, warframe was never lore focused. Its filled with random mistakes and inconsistencies.

[silk atlas]

It's not, people just act like it is because they thing any elaborations in the lore is a "retcon"

[pale cedar]

The lore is fine for the most part

[ocean geyser]

Dawg what 😭
Grendel’s mouth aint big enough for that bro

[opal quest]

I'd say best way to find about lore is leverian and codex u can watch lore vids for sure but try digging urself

[silk atlas]

There was one person arguing that Loid and Necraloid existing at the same time was somehow a retcon because to make a Cephalon there needed to be a real person to be digitized (which would've been Loid) in the game where they make cloning seem like a pretty simple process

[opal quest]

Mouth bro has a literal absolute killer croc level jaw on his stomach

[ocean geyser]

Correct me if i’m wrong, but he can only eat any kind of thing

Eating the observable universe would take him billions of years

He too small

[pale cedar]

Isn’t it explained as something Dante did?

[opal quest]

Well he could eat enemy ships in railjack so yea he can eat anything

Then de patched it

[silk atlas]

Not to my knowledge no.

[ocean geyser]

That must look terrifying from the pilot’s perspective

[silk atlas]

The whole "Primes were the originals" when DE never said that and then DE deciding that isn't true is example numero uno of people acting like DE is full of inconsistencies.

[opal quest]

https://tenor.com/view/йвйв-gif-17410664305885425651

[opal quest]

Corpus pilot working 9- 5 only to hear uwu but grendel isn't on the ship

[ocean geyser]

Yk now I’m curious
Did the first ever Rhino have a mouth or was that just a result of the Warframing not being complete?

[pale cedar]

All Warframes can eat

[ocean geyser]

Buh?

[opal quest]

Well like umbra peeled face he was like that

[ocean geyser]

I mean yeah but i’m not sure if having to rip the fleshmetal off your head to eat really counts

[pale cedar]

“Who nurtures you in your times of rest? Who restores your battle-torn frame, day after day after day? Whose milk enriches your kindred flesh with endless strength and vigor? It can only be me.”

[opal quest]

Helminth

[pale cedar]

A non visible mouth doesn’t mean a thing can’t actually eat

[opal quest]

Also I think the helminth has special interactions with nidus

[ocean geyser]

I don’t remember “milk” being in that quote but now I’m thinking about Helminth Milk

I
Do not like it

[woven coyote]

I mean could be an injection so maybe eat isn't that accurate

[naive frigate]

I may be wrong but i remember them talking about primes being the originals on a devstream like 9 years ago.

[pale cedar]

Milk is considered food

[ocean geyser]

I remember a friend told me that they just subsist on air or something

[woven coyote]

Yeah but if it was injected i wouldnt call it eating

[ocean geyser]

Should I be wondering what the Helminth’s milk tastes like

[woven coyote]

With that helminth line i imagine some sort of infested iv drip

[silk atlas]

If you can somehow stomach going through the archived vods then by all means

But also, 9 years?

[tall echo]

You are wrong

Well maybe not but primes ain't always the og

[pale cedar]

“Some Warframes were prime from the start others earned it, Ballas never told the whole truth”

[ocean geyser]

Which does line up with the fact that getting Warframed was also a punishment

[tall echo]

Once

[ocean geyser]

Didn’t yareli piss off Ballas or something

[tall echo]

There's two confirmed punishment framification incidents

Umbra wasn't punishment

Yareli prime and jade+stalker

[ocean geyser]

I would say that being forced to relive the memory of killing your son for thousands(?) of years for spying on your boss sounds like a punishment

[tall echo]

That's torture and to keep him quiet, not punishment

[woven coyote]

Well maybe not punishment in the sense of having a trial

But when you say ballas punished umbra for trying to snitch on him the sentence isnt wrong

[bright temple]

“it’s punishing him, but it’s not punishment”

[tall echo]

That's not what I said

Torture doesn't necessarily mean punishment

Ballas is a sadistic hypocrite

[ocean geyser]

You’re basically saying torturing a guy and turning him into a warframe for trying to snitch on him isn’t a punishment
Just because the punishment isn’t a just one doesn’t mean it’s not a punishment

Stalker and Jade were warframed because they had a baby

[tall echo]

Punishment requires a rule to be broken or an order disobeyed

[bright temple]

in this context it’s very explicitly a punishment for umbra spying and getting dirt over Ballas, you’re splitting hairs over semantics

[pale cedar]

If he didn’t spy he wouldn’t be turned into a frame thus it is a punishment

[ocean geyser]

I suppose i should probably start remembering that you mentioned you were autistic, Scrap (correct me if i’m wrong on that, though)

Which would probably explain why this conversation is going the way it is

[raw stone]

Ballas' reason for Umbra was tying up loose ends

[bright temple]

Not mutually exclusive

[raw stone]

WAIT WAIT Okay I'm curious now. How is the Ballas Sentient Armistice gonna work with Tau?

Yall brought that up, and I wanna know what went down

[bright temple]

How do you mean?

[tall echo]

...yeah.

[pale cedar]

Christmas peace during war

[tall echo]

The 'tism is strong

[bright temple]

O right, old peace

[ocean geyser]

Understandable honestly

[tall echo]

The 'tism gets stuck on semantics

[raw stone]

Not that I'm not in the know, I am up to date, Undermind/Isleweaver. But like where does the old war take place with Old peace in mind

[tall echo]

Peace is during war

[raw stone]

Old Peace sounds like they initially retaliated, stopped, and then resumed the war.

[tall echo]

Short break period

[restive river]

During the old war or tau 2026

[raw stone]

So then, where does Ballas dealing with the sentients / Treasonous activities, fall in the line there?

[restive river]

It’s toward the end of the war it sounds like

[tall echo]

Old war pt 2

[raw stone]

Gotcha.

Okay my curiosity is sated for now.

[restive river]

It kinda just continues til Hunhow blows the rail
Sometime between the tenno return and the lotus is instated

[ocean geyser]

Ngl
Ballas, if you simplify him, is basically that gorilla wife meme

[bright temple]

wut

[tall echo]

Heavily simplified

[bright temple]

https://tenor.com/view/please-give-more-context-gif-22337965

[proper barn]

Good question

[tall echo]

Being a memelord, I instantly understood

[proper barn]

Around the old peace.

[tall echo]

You are late

[proper barn]

It seems to be a stop during the war but they come to war again.

Which we will probably see.

[naive frigate]

I cant exactly prove or think of any right now so i guess my point is null, but im just trying to say that warframe does have quite a few inconsistencies. Because warframe has had a scramble of directions when it comes to story through its lifetime. Only recently (Primarily since Reb took over) has warframe really felt like its had a vision with an endpoint.

[raw stone]

I know DE wouldn't retroactively change Sacrifice. And the quest serves nicely, no complaints. Serves the process of explaining why the Tenno control frames. The ballas and umbra thing is more of a backseat

[proper barn]

I still think it's gonna be ballas' fault.

[raw stone]

For the fall?

[tall echo]

Always is

[raw stone]

Yeah maybe. We'll see.

[pale cedar]

It’s making it seem like it’s ours so far

[restive river]

Someone’s behind the separatists

Like
Very obviously an Orokin

[proper barn]

Why? More how and confirming the frames are people which was heavily implied.

[tall echo]

Ballas is the lead researcher in "what happens if I shoot myself in the foot"

[restive river]

Dax have to obey Orokin-

[raw stone]

Not that I don't find that he's the crux of some inciting events... but you know. But I think the alliance falls when.... whatstheirface dies.

[proper barn]

His face

[raw stone]

I am so sorry I keep forgetting to rewatch the tennocon stream

[proper barn]

The sentient is a boy child.

[raw stone]

A bimini bon boy child?

[proper barn]

Sure.

[tall echo]

Really?

[raw stone]

[proper barn]

Aris?

I don't remember his name.

[raw stone]

I wanted to say Apis so badly. Like Bee.

[tall echo]

Adis

[rich stump]

Adis

[restive river]

Adis

[tall echo]

Ads

[silk atlas]

I don't exactly buy it because every time someone says that when they go into the lore channel here or in the community server, it's always just them not paying attention. Even with stuff that's all explained within the game itself and long before Reb took over, there's been a fair number of stuff like that.

[proper barn]

I think he might still be alive at the end.

[raw stone]

Oh my god....

[restive river]

~~Or they’re our mom now ~~

[proper barn]

Like he's still alive and then he's the main protagonist or antagonistic for present tau.

[restive river]

Depends on where we left off with him

[proper barn]

Yee

[pale cedar]

Well you see their mask at the end on the ground

[rich stump]

operator getting a sentient boyfriend to equal out with Drifter being in a Relationship

[restive river]

I don’t think they’ll be doing a romance system for the operator

[rich stump]

I fully expect it to not happen ever

[rich stump]

Unless at some point they do a time skip and age up the operator, but I don’t see that happening either especially with Drifter being a thing

I do still fully expect people to start shipping operator and Adis (assuming they haven’t already started), even if there’s no way DE would ever confirm that ship

[pale cedar]

I know it won’t happen ever for age reasons

[rich stump]

Ye

[old dome]

inspired by the convo in spoiler chat,, we dont really know when kullervo got warframed, just that it happened before the tenno... right?

im thinking abt his crimes again and hm. hmm...

[pale cedar]

Yes, many Warframes predate the Tenno

[vale rivet]

Nokko has to be 17 or 16

[silk atlas]

Sir this is a Warframe Discord.

[misty salmon]

Unfortunately I am only certified to deal with space trauma and therapy for syndicate dysfunction and floor pizzas. You're likely to find more relevant help with more local mental health or crisis line services.

[strange turtle]

I mean you could just use google translate

[tardy sphinx]

Okay that's it I'm doing it bye I'll delete everything

[proper barn]

Go get help please.

[proper barn]

<@&778745217037238293> Joking or not this person is saying they will hurt themselves. Maybe do something I don't know what exactly but something.

[bronze field]

[proper barn]

They deleted their original message but it was about that.

[bronze field]

This is not the place to be bringing up things, if you are thinking such actual thoughts you need to seek actual help when such thoughts and impulses arrive.

[trail light]

I agree every life is precious including his

[eternal sand]

Question for out of game lore. Is the reason all 5 duviri bosses are the same because DE was too busy to make custom animal and mythological themes bosses for each? Bombastine would have been a great toad

[main spade]

I’ve always seen it in the light of how Norse Dragons are, specifically Fafnir becoming one due to his Greed. They take on an extreme form because of their associated emotion.

[lean garden]

nah

[narrow pendant]

somewhat off topic but i just had such a good idea i want to rant about to people far enough in the game to appreciate it
All began when i randomly realized, Albrecht would fit as the person talked about in duran duran's Invisible since he somewhat sold the world/universe to wally lmao. So imagine a fan animation of specifically this scene but its his orokin form switching to his "normal" form in his labs to him walking in höllvania and then potentially in tau https://tenor.com/view/mgs-metal-gear-solid-phantom-pain-venom-snake-gif-5631901306578330322

[main spade]

True enough. Would be kind of sick. And funny for our own meme purposes. A double whammy

[narrow pendant]

if only i knew how to animate

[main spade]

The greatest Road Block of our time.

[tardy sphinx]

I'm alive..

[stiff beacon]

funfact invisible by duran duran came out this decade

not the 1980's

[narrow pendant]

yeah ive heard

idk if its even in the game lmao

[daring wave]

Quick question is the teshin we see in duviri is the same ine the erra crush is helmet right? Because idk if we see him fall through the portal we did in the new war

[pale cedar]

In all the ages of Thrax's reign, only two strangers have ever been known to come to Duviri.

One was the monk Teshin, who fell from the sky into the lake on the island we now call Hermit's Landing. Seemingly lifeless, he was dragged ashore by Mathila who nursed his return to health. I have never known a constitution to match his; yet unlike us, he has… deteriorated… with the passing of time.

[daring wave]

I see ok thanks that also explains why he look much older there compared to before he got there

I think that means that a dax can live to be 2000 years old easy with the power the orokin gave them because it was at least 1000 years of the long sleep anf god know how long during the old war he was alive and a dax soldier and plus duviri on top so yeah

[rare lynx]

Is there a lore reason for the deimos infested being different from the other infested? Like they have different damage weaknesses, it's been a while since I did heart of deimos

[pale cedar]

Infestation has strains

[rare lynx]

Aight fair enough

Thanks

[raw stone]

The grey strain is tougher

Anyway no. The dax crudhed in erra's prologue is Varzia

[strange turtle]

It’s not, it came out years after

[restive river]

It’s also bigger!

Or rather makes things bigger

[pale cedar]

I’ve just learned this game apparently has a thing called a Nuptia which is a marriage and 2 Tenno got married which I find really weird if it is canon

[hollow siren]

It was mainly just a one-time thing to give a vague pseudo-canon reason for that wedding

Has never been mentioned since

[tall echo]

Different scene

[ashen pulsar]

Time is different in the void though

[ashen pulsar]

Huh?

Weird

[hollow siren]

Was mostly just a throwaway thing for two players who were getting married irl and also held a "wedding" in-game

[daring wave]

Oh still it was probably a long time that have passed in there

[pale cedar]

1000+ years

[raw stone]

As far as I can tell, the whole reason that The Spiral happens is because The Operator sends some gear to assist The Drifter.
But The Drifter has to have escaped to tell the Operator for them to send that gear in.

It's a paradox. I think Teshin says that in The Spiral.

Idk how to explain it, but I'll leave it at timey-wimey stuff and finish my break.

[pale cedar]

The spirals happened before the hand fell from the sky

[raw stone]

Mhmn mhmn.

[pale cedar]

Duviri has always been Spirals tbh

[raw stone]

I mean you mentioned the void existing outside of time. It does. Just. Explaining what goes where goes when gets messy.

[pale cedar]

There's still time in the Void

Just works a little differently

[ashen pulsar]

I think they’re talking about the part of the duviri paradox quest, The Spiral

In which drifter escapes the loop

[austere moon]

so if the tenno are just piloting the warframe and the frames have been asleep for like a really long time then where are the original tenno? like are they dead?

[pale cedar]

On the moon

[empty sand]

Hey so what's the story behind the ocean of Cetus I heard that there's a old man who is a big ass fish swimming there? Is it real?

[tall echo]

How far in the game are you

[stiff beacon]

It's just an origin story for cetus, an in game myth about its origins

[raw stone]

For some reason Koumei is an analogue of Aphrodite with that fishman thing being the Kronos in the situation

Idk. I never even uncovered the cetus fragments either

[tall echo]

Wh

The two things are completely seperate

[raw stone]

:v they said that Koumei arrived on the sea foam of where whatsthatfish returned to the sea. How is that not a parallel to Aphrodite's emergence?

[strange turtle]

I think Scrap thought you meant like, in general, rather than her birth specifically

[raw stone]

I'm going to check this when I return home. Saya has a line about this in the vendor's idle lines I think.

[woven coyote]

Was taking note of how the nonono shrooms are in nutrient processing and imagining the shrooms going all
"Feed me father" to the poor corpus workers in the area

Those ones must be sheer nightmare fuel for the crew there

[raw stone]

They speak?

OKAY, before anyone else says anything. I know Mushrooms emit sound normally inaudible to us. I just haven't gotten the second or third rank for them.

[woven coyote]

I would have to check if they do

But considering they are the void shrooms i wouldnt put it past them

Think there was a line from nightcap in the field guide or when you grab it that mentions voices, different from the usual shroom ones

[raw stone]

I gotta see the effect the void shroom has tbh.

The Tau and Slash ones mirror each other, but idk the Void one. Haven't seen them in a while.

[restive river]

It’s not too special from what I saw

It’d be cool if it activated peculiar audience

[raw stone]

I wanted to know what hallucinations both Devil's cap and Vomval trumpet did cause... I don't see it.

Maybe its under an accessibility thing I had turned off

[tall echo]

What

[restive river]

I don’t think they cause anything?

[austere moon]

in terms of planets I just finished venus junction

[tall echo]

Keep playing then

If you ever have a question, it's very likely to get answered in the story

[austere moon]

ok uh I noticed that the Solari have like machines instead of human heads but regular arms and legs, are they like just "piloting" their bodies or something else

[tall echo]

Both piloting and something else

Though instead of story you learn that by getting their standing to rank 5

[tall echo]

For your future convenience, every group that uses the "standing" currency has lore in some way EXCEPT ones on earth, ventkids and the relay ones

[austere moon]

ok thanks!

[tall echo]

*and simaris

I forgot him

And idk if there's lore in THE CONCLAVE

[pale cedar]

Only in the introduction for it

[sweet wadi]

Does anyone know what’s in THE CONCLAVE?

I’m pretty sure DE could have shadow dropped an entire expansion only accessible there and no one would have ever noticed.

[pale cedar]

Conclave is just a bunch of accessories gained by doing boring content

[stiff beacon]

or those 2 1999 nodes

[pale cedar]

Even that nobody seems to do anymore

[narrow pendant]

i recently checked conclave for the first time, the lunaru UI isnt properly scaled lmao

so safe to say its not a priority for DE

[scenic depot]

so is nightcap dead?

[silk atlas]

Revived by the mushrooms and part of the network

[south sun]

Seems very 'cordyceps'... though... friendly cordyceps.

[lilac aspen]

You cannot kill him in anyway that matters

[vale rivet]

Very silly but Nokko has to be 17 and yerili has to be 20

[restive river]

Their ages are unknown, all we know is Yareli was likely young and Nokko is likely younger than her

[unique talon]

Would it be possible for a faction to create some sort of robot to wipe out all the Tenno? Like the Kronos project from Incredibles

The corpus seemed the most logical option for them to do that

[restive river]

Closest you’d get is the sentients with their adaptability

But ofc the Tenno have a direct counter with: the void

It’s also
Really hard to kill the tenno, it does not happen a lot

[unique talon]

What do you mean "it does not happen a lot"

Like those vor killed before?

[restive river]

Off the top of my head there’s only been 3 that died

[restive river]

He didn’t kill any Tenno?

Killing the frame doesn’t kill the tenno

[vale rivet]

Theory:ballas just hates childirn

[unique talon]

Like cutting my internet to be precisely

[restive river]

Not a theory, he specifically hates the tenno cause his partner cared for us

[restive river]

Close enough yeah

[unique talon]

Margulis

[restive river]

Yup

[lilac aspen]

The Tenno cannot die
At best you can only disrupt their ability to use their warframes but they’re still a Void manipulating child with an attitude

[restive river]

They can die it just does not happen very often and typically by their own hand iirc

[lilac aspen]

You know what I mean

Very hard to kill in a permanent way

So far we know aging works