All That Smolders Feedback

[trail oak]

well he is working on some more colorfull changes atm

soo you know let him cook :), He has posted some pictures so far if you scroll up

[novel helm]

This is not really true. Sure, Glitters have not been this popular in the past year, not even close. But in the following weeks before this new map, we have been having some op players from rotato etc. participating in our OP glitters games, attracting more players in general. Most days in the past few weeks we've been having 40+ specs and 10-20+ ppl in queue during peak hours which I've never really seen before.

I'm guessing this is why glitters have been receiving so much attention lately. New theme suggestions, and even this new map (which I personally don't like very much due to the way it buffs porcing, and how you are inclined to just sit on your hill and spam long range porc + also how it killed off t1 vehicles at high levels (except for low ground whistelers), which I personally enjoyed a lot.

It seems this map has a lot less micro opportunities unless your opponent makes a big mistake, or is inexperienced. The middle 2 spots still play out similarly, except that the old cheetah lane aka old carry spot (The one next to rainow) can now be oppressed heavily by canyon, especially if the enemy team plays smart and funnels resources into the canyon hill players for faster rattle/tremor/LRPC. It seems, if played normally, all this change really did was lower impact for both canyon and ac. Ac, because you have to fight harder for less mexes, reducing your overall impact on the game compared to the other 2 front spots, and canyon because you have less metal overall than before + no geo + you are encouraged to porc.

I do think canyon needed a buff for more balanced games, but this one just promotes boring/campy gameplay for both canyon and anti canyon. I do wish you just added a safe 2.0 mex for canyon instead and moved geo back 1-2 tiles (out of range from ambassadors from behind the hill).

I'm sure in lower lobbies you can still push that hill, but this is just not fun gameplay for me except for rainbow, which still seems to be played out normally.

[knotty plover]

how about this 'theme change' https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/758438508120637441/1379596917587316828/image.png?ex=6840d140&is=683f7fc0&hm=7654b383e4a4afbb23f47098eb98142016156db0b613070aa7d2062f73ea5010&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1329&height=953

[molten hamlet]

Yes much better!

[trail oak]

**Let Nikuksis cook! **He is currently analyzing the distractibility manifested by red pebbles slightly scattered across the vast gray expanse

[regal harness]

yeah I don't think I love the pebbles

[trail oak]

Just make it Brown #bringbackbrown

[novel helm]

Just make it all black and white. Make the units gray too

#1shadeofgray

[real rampart]

All that shitters

[trail oak]

https://tenor.com/view/batman-thinking-gif-18107621495886085895

I just love the brown

[cursive sierra]

wheres brown

ok
here's new ranges:
thud:

LRPC (i kept two rocks for each side so you can still hide some stuff

gauntlet:

you can see that middle mexes are now equally step off the canyon btw

[chrome yew]

looks alot better, when can we try it out

the main ramp is wider right?

[fierce turret]

What

Hell no, we need wayyy more shades of grey

I'm thinking like, 50 whole shades

[novel helm]

You mean like 3?

[rare vector]

Kellar player Arabia map for 27 years in AOE2, naturally he cant play maps that arent a mix of yellow and orange sand

Middle east supreme when

[earnest cloak]

raiding the canyon won't be worth it and there will be a quick t2 battle in the middle .......

[chrome yew]

the backup hill where the basilicas are placed is also too good imo, top of it should be accessible with trans only

[novel helm]

I dont get it. We invented color screens in 1946. Why did we go back to black and white??

Also, I played black forest for 5 years. Arabia was only 4

[fiery parrot]

don't worry you got red pebbles

[cursive sierra]

north one, rock moved a bit

and due they are little lower all ramps become little wider too

[cursive sierra]

will see, but i think its ok too. you either want to push canyon quick or ignore it and push mid

[cursive sierra]

no you not

[glacial wing]

Moderating it would be hell

[cursive sierra]

All That Smolders?

okay name? dont like simmers too much tbh

[green vale]

you dont need to moderate just let it by like modern warfare OG games 🙂

[glacial wing]

Any part of the base game needs to operate under the coc

[cursive sierra]

https://www.beyondallreason.info/map/all-that-smolders

[burnt hamlet]

lets go shep this map we can speedrun cannoy again @green vale

[frank fox]

just dont moderate it, easy

[frank fox]

I can count the amount of elite canyon players on one hand that would pull that off

[regal harness]

Why would it be moderated ?

[glacial wing]

...

[winged sand]

if you want VC and discuss it make a separate suggestions thread

[night marsh]

At some point should probably fork this thread between glitters and the new name lol.

Are we keeping this as glitters theme change or should I rename the thread to All that smolders feedback?

[chrome yew]

go play game xD

[frank fox]

sry was afk

[cursive sierra]

please rename

thanks

[night marsh]

All That Smolders Feedback

Probably should have asked thread creator... Map creator vs thread creator decisions lol

[meager osprey]

Nah all good man

[earnest cloak]

@cursive sierra i think you should edit this place to not makeable lrpc because very safe and very sees 3,4 base

[fierce turret]

ash storms on this map would be so peak

[cursive sierra]

planned feature

[fierce turret]

holy shit hell yes

[swift saddle]

Normal glitteur need sand storms and giant worms that randomly come out and swallow ur units

[winged sand]

california simulator

[cursive sierra]

kek

yeah i will add atmospherics

[earnest cloak]

https://tenor.com/g6BzTNcIibv.gif

[fierce turret]

Blood tides when

🧌

[meager osprey]

so op 🙏

[coral portal]

it was great till the air spot got compressed by that new elevation today

[candid helm]

This is traversable by most units (bots) in south, north don't have this, not sure it is intended even with your asymmetric fetichism

[candid helm]

Can you also fix the weird terrain on air spot, i show the buildability of fusion, there is big spot (rectangle) not fusion buildable but you can "terraform" by first build E advance storage, which is kind of weird, just surelevate without forbid fusion construction would be better i think

[wide hawk]

[regal harness]

I wonder what ppl begging name change thinking rn

[vernal tartan]

The new All That Smolders map is awesome 👏🏻

It’s definitely a win-win that both versions exist

[cursive sierra]

its buildable no?

well... mostly

[cursive sierra]

not intended, i just fixed it in north, but south appeared. will fix

ok i have a list to fix for 1.2

I'd keep current version for a day or two, and make little changes again

air spot fix
south cliff fix
bring back mid rocks
equalize current mid rocks
move 3.2 for AC back

[coral portal]

it is but in end game its F :(, cant expand anymore, not able to build t2 labs with that elevation + 2-3 mountains surrounding air position tbh

[cursive sierra]

ok i will make it little more flat, should be enough to build everything

[lime apex]

the game feels interestingly weird with no mid hills

can already smell ALL THAT rotato

[rare vector]

Slowcooking glittards into rotato soup xd

Before they realize they are rotato gamers now. I'd love to have a glittato rotato perma lobby

[coral portal]

https://tenor.com/view/bow-honor-bowing-down-formal-bow-honor-gif-15998984674314455977

[lime apex]

sidenote: make canyon op again; get rid of JANUUUS

[novel helm]

They cancelled the noob stomper unit 😦

[cursive sierra]

will work on mid rocks tho

[chrome yew]

rip hidden passage

[frank fox]

https://tenor.com/view/riddler-paul-dano-new-rockstars-does-he-know-gif-26833694

[frank fox]

just missing two tiny but important things

[cursive sierra]

?

[frank fox]

https://tenor.com/view/geothermal-ancient-aliens-razor-razor-energy-albertagarbage-gif-27323017

[hybrid fractal]

the new ramp is much better, actually possible to make something else than thugs now, whistlers seem to work 🙂

[long frost]

Honestly I wonder how things would go if the back canyon spot gets made into the tech spot with a geothermal placed there. Suddenly the plains get two supporter roles with a real emphasis on preventing them taking your plateau, you taking theirs or pushing their plains opponents back to their bases. (Just a random thought maybe a bit too crazy but it would get a different interest from legion players for the T2 geothermal with antinuke as a option)

It is probably too hard for the defender above though. I presume there have been other maps like this.

[hybrid fractal]

Techer with a geo is just asking for coop nuke rushes every single game

[candid helm]

Removed the geo & -1 max winds make the map way more "low resource gamestyle" and i like it (sorry @frank fox )

[frank fox]

geo advocate for life

[frank fox]

never happened in old glitters and canyon had more metal iirc

[hybrid fractal]

coz the ageo wasn't on teching spot, it's usually a front line player that used to take it, which makes 0 sense
but not following the book of glitters gets on in trouble so, op builds are best kept secret

kinda like how koom used to be before people unlocked teching on front line with ageo

[cursive sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/no-its-not-nope-disagree-not-at-all-certainly-not-gif-15630051

[astral basin]

tried the map. 10/10

[spark hill]

periodic meteor showers and megafauna events

[cursive sierra]

updated to 1.2

[frank fox]

https://tenor.com/view/it's-over-barney-ross-sylvester-stallone-the-expendables-3-its-done-gif-13702850666613130810

https://tenor.com/view/i-am-once-again-asking-once-again-asking-once-again-asking-gif-7917205226486132164

for geo

[meager osprey]

cetme you really dont need geo

[frank fox]

https://tenor.com/view/idontneedit-spongebob-meme-ineedit-gif-19085880

[meager osprey]

you cooked hard for 1.2 huge thanks 🙏

[meager osprey]

however I feel like canyon should have a 3.2 added into it ngl. the reason behind that is because anti canyon only has to move upwards with the construction units meanwhile in canyon you gotta do a mix. Sure there is an upphill but feels like the majority of times people in anti canyon skip the fighting part tech up to t2, go into arbiters or units to outrange porc and move in

idk

[cursive sierra]

we'll see

i don't think its an urgent issue, canyon can be played fine currently

probably it can have it's 3.2 near or on ramp

[meager osprey]

oh yeah for sure it's never been easier to play this position due to the hill just an idea though

lets just see how it goes with more games however

[cursive sierra]

yea

1.2 had some pretty urgent issues fixedother can wait

[frank fox]

anywhere but the ramp lol

[frank fox]

placing ||geo ||bottom right instead of mex fixes this

[regal harness]

damn i was hoping the middle hills were gone for good

[rare vector]

I love the mid hills,map was empty before.

[coral portal]

yeah, right now as air im taking the one to the left, people is just ignoring it LOL

I also love that now my canyons dont fall in 5 mins and matches are over that fast, it was the main struggle of the map, im happy af about this change

[trail oak]

dude fix the wind. 15 sucks make it 16 or 17

[cursive sierra]

15 is a lot, even 12 makes sense to do windfarms

[trail oak]

except the wind is always less then 6

i think currently everyone collectivly hate the wind

im honestly god damn tired of every single game being with fucked wind

just fix it, its unplay able

[wispy needle]

#literallyunplayable summoned

[knotty plover]

Solar enjoyers rise up!

[cursive sierra]

it can't be always less than 6
average wind of 0-15 is like 12

[cursive sierra]

make e storage/ mix with solars

[trail oak]

Dude you go and fucking play your map

[cursive sierra]

it wasnt even my desire to change wind

[trail oak]

i know the formula says average 11 wind but for the last 3 days i have been playing, Its been shit every single time without fail

and thats not random luck its just shit wind all the time, When half of the players are building solars instead of wind with a 15 windspeed then something is wrong

[cursive sierra]

then the formula is broken or wind is broken. map says average wind should be 11-12, then you just unlucky or the wind calculation broken

i tend to think you just noticing when the wind is bad

and thinking its OK when wind stick to 15 (almost all the time)

[trail oak]

i am the nr1 wind enjoyer in this game

[cursive sierra]

glitters 1 had it 0-14 iirc
or even 0-12

[trail oak]

you can ask anyone

[cursive sierra]

i could make wind 5-10 and it will be much lower than 0-15

[trail oak]

let me put it this way. In the previous glitters i could setup a windfarm and have 80-100 metal income and not stall for energy

here i have doubled and tripled the amount of wind i build and im still stalling

[cursive sierra]

the reason behind 0-15 and overall wind energy is making it risky and give people a choice. you either doing you risky windfarms and have zero energy to d-gun when it suddenly goes 0.
or you make e store and some solars to keep yourself alive

[long frost]

Its just variation since people notice it dying more than running. If you want to prevent your mexes stalling for energy have all cons/com on low priority.

[trail oak]

I have played only glitters for years, trust me i notice it

[cursive sierra]

https://springfiles.springrts.com/?type=2&filter=0e1f57e4c2c29f3a027783d97a89b2cd

[trail oak]

again im completly aware of that

[long frost]

Can you provide a replay or two where the wind was really bad?

[trail oak]

yes go to litteraly any of my games on glitters

and look for energy stalling in every person

[long frost]

That has always happened do you build a energy storage? (It happens in old glitters too)

[trail oak]

ofc

[cursive sierra]

so everyone are greedy rely only on wind🤷‍♂️

at least its stalling for everyone at once 🙂

[long frost]

Then rewatch your games and see if you could of taken advantage of the space+click building of basic solars for emergency metal usage. (Immediately added infront of current task)

[trail oak]

thats not a thing

[long frost]

What I just said?

[trail oak]

ye, when you get to t2 you cant just cover your energy needs by building a few solars and mostly everything is done by blueprints

[long frost]

Honestly its better to switch to a basic fusion after mexes are T2. Stop making more wind finish the current ones. Once you got a fusion just add a few more standards. You can then scale con turrets do a afus eat two fusions out of the 4 to make the afus. Better conversion since the latter takes so much build power. Anyhow this isnt academy chat or meta discussion if you want to see me doing that as eco grab a replay or two of me doing that and see it happen with thors by the 22 min mark. Even done that without sacrificing my commander.

[rare vector]

Dont listen to BigAll on this one, he's literally a wind fetishist. I think the map is richer by having such a wind that you can combine power sources and not be trolling. Also i love the fact that glitters can have 0 wind. Wind drops and rises open up plays too

Not if you just spam 100000 winds and forget, but if you micromanage power, you can benefit from this

[cursive sierra]

i agree with that

[rare vector]

I have to say i really like the new hills. Games are interesting IMO, and no position is straight up OP. Mountains in mid also made it better again, more interesting

Its shaping up to be really cool map

Thanks again for rejuvenating glitt gaming

[cursive sierra]

yeah i think 1.2 looks fine

will see how it goes

[long frost]

Also FYI I tend to do pure wind until T2. Wind isnt bad on the map.

[trail oak]

wind proved a steady scaling ability to reinforce your army. This is why i use wind but if wind is fked the only choice left is solar. Which is just a random gamble to lose the game

and saying that people should just go up to a fusion instead of spamming wind turbines does work sure. But it also stalls litteraly everything you do.

In summery

[cursive sierra]

classic

[trail oak]

this is what other people feel the map is like and i feel exactly the same way.

[cursive sierra]

yea i remember i got those lose streaks so abd when i had to get few os

its tilting for sure, but wind is not guilty

[trail oak]

i am also i person who does not care about OS at all

What i do care about is having a windfarm

and what i especially care about is when i build a wind farm and increase the size of it by 3 times what i used to and im still stalling 99% of the time

[cursive sierra]

well.. as it said on loading screens hint - add storage or solars🤷‍♂️ it gives more diversity and less one-sided brainless wind spam

[long frost]

Do you scale your energy storage when its overflowing?

[trail oak]

its never overlowing

and i do scale my E storage

[long frost]

Okay. Could you link a replay or two? I will watch em this evening. (Currently out)

[trail oak]

litteraly the one i played when we where talking

you can just want every single one of my games and in 99% of them everything and everything is stalling because wind speed

[meager osprey]

Yeah

[trail oak]

Considering the nerf to windturbines in the last major patch. 16 wind was the absolute minimum you could have a workable windfarm at. with 15, i dont know what it is but it just does not work at all. With the possible incoming changes to counter communism by making t2 phase more expensive. Its going to be a whole new ball game and its going to turn the whole game upside down.

so i recommend changing back to 16 or 17

For argument sake, I understand the fact that wind is risky. But it should not be a make it or break it mechanic. You should not wind or lose lane based on if you get absolutely gimped by wind.

This also has alot of side effects on other things like counter t2 play. When the enemy eco players builds some early Mausers, the counterplan used to be to get a sniper to snipe them down. But that has almost completely disappeared, for a big part due to everyone stalling on energy.

Now the fatboys rain supreme where a push fit a fat boy usually ends the game. Again because any kind of counterplan and defensibility has been pushed off to the side lines.

atleast make a poll about wind speed

[knotty plover]

Seem like you've just gotten unlucky early game when you notice more.

[trail oak]

The average is not enough to cover the needs of a windfarm

[knotty plover]

(also yeah, the wind is a gadget the map doesn't control the movement of wind)

[trail oak]

but the map controls max and min speed right_

[cursive sierra]

correct me if i'm wrong but making it 0-16 makes almost no difference

[trail oak]

Huge diffierence

[cursive sierra]

though making it 1-15 will make even less difference

[knotty plover]

Making it like aurelia, 3-16 or 3-15 would make wind feel amazing. Never too dead, and pushes the average up a lot

But 0-15 seems fun

[trail oak]

i cant tell you about 1-15 or 3-15 because i am no experience with that

[cursive sierra]

this will make solars obsolete

[knotty plover]

Exactly.

[trail oak]

all i know is. After the nerf to armada windturbines and a buff to cortex windtrubines, wind farms because a little shittier and in the case of cortex actually doable

but after the change from 16 to 15 on glitters those very same windfarms because terrible half of the time

[hybrid fractal]

for a map that gets played on repeat having wind change how the game can flow is pretty good for not running on the same script every games but the wind can be very tilting on glitters sometimes

[cursive sierra]

i consider this as buff to windturbines 😄

since im playing core (when playing at all)

[trail oak]

yea i did say a buff to core turbines

i have actually started playing alot of core because of that change

[cursive sierra]

anyways the wind is the same for everyone on the map

[trail oak]

and its very rippy all across for everyone

[knotty plover]

Other openers: 2solar +wind Your opener: 7 winds. You can see why you're more susceptible to wind speed.

[trail oak]

im asking you to make it less rippy. You can still be punished by going wind. But it should not be deciding the outcome of games

[knotty plover]

In this case you were rewarded with nearly Max wind for the first 15 min

[cursive sierra]

im completely fine with that in regars of wind speed.
you are free to choose = high risk high reward
or lower risk - lower reward

at least this is not 1v1 map

[knotty plover]

Yeah, I'm just noting a difference in bigbaldmans play that might lead to their perception of your map.

[cursive sierra]

where noone can share you and low wind can result in immediate lose

[cursive sierra]

how does it decide if the wind dead for enemy as well?

[swift saddle]

wtf is dat

[trail oak]

Because everyone are in diffirent stages of the game with diffirent builds/strategies

[knotty plover]

A replay viewer/bar stats website

[trail oak]

Bots generally get alot less affected by windspeeds in comparison to vehicle players

[knotty plover]

https://gex.honu.pw/user/93295/?name=[APE]BigBaldMan

[trail oak]

if you are in your t2 transition and wind dies you are basically fked

[cursive sierra]

the wind is not scripted as many joking. it can out at any time...

[trail oak]

for a while until it improves

[swift saddle]

wat the tuna, how much effort u put into this site lol

u coulda made the new lobby with all this effort

[knotty plover]

Not mine, but it's cool isn't it. Seems to sim the whole game somehow...

[cursive sierra]

i can happen to enemy as well 🙂 thats what random means

if the wind locked by map in 7 it would be boring

[trail oak]

sure i agree but it is TOO punishing

[cursive sierra]

you should have a backup plan to survive the wind outage

again its a team game, everyone cant go T2 at once

ask for a help , for energy if you are dying to wind stall

[trail oak]

and the whole risky but "punishing" part whent from risking it for a a soggy biscuit pre-cost changes + 16 max wind speed to risky and "suicidal" post metal cost changes and 15 wind

[cursive sierra]

BAR wind already uses the most gentle formula it can imo. its not THAT random and sticks to the maximum most of the time

[trail oak]

sure again i agree

[cursive sierra]

time to adapt man

[trail oak]

and i am telling your the sweet spot is 16 wind (my preferance is 17 after the cost changes) but it is what it is

there is no adapting to being crippled sometimes to this extent

[cursive sierra]

im not against you. i am not even playing the game right now.
so nothing personal. I jhust want other soruces of energy to be viable and having sense.

[swift saddle]

skill issue

[cursive sierra]

i think this makes game more diverse, and gives more fun to the game

[swift saddle]

yeah its funny when wind go to 1 while com get dived

[cursive sierra]

especially on the map that played on repeat as it was said

[trail oak]

it was more diverse and fun at 16 speed. There was plenty of times you would stall and the wind would bite you in the arse

[cursive sierra]

don't dive without stored e

[trail oak]

now it just straight up kills you

[swift saddle]

why u and not everyone else in the game with the same wind?

[trail oak]

it is everyone. I have not heared a single person say the wind changes are great

the only thing i have heared on repeat for the past 3 days is how shit the wind is

[cursive sierra]

it was asked by several people here. not my idea to lower the wind

[swift saddle]

if it "straight up kills" everyone then its even playing field

[cursive sierra]

and i see only you complains tbh

[swift saddle]

i used to complain ages ago when u kept making maps with lower wind

[cursive sierra]

yeah i like low to no wind personally, but in case of this map im not following my personal taste

[swift saddle]

well it was probably true that wind was op

[trail oak]

the wind was op

[cursive sierra]

I favor game diversity as much as i can

[trail oak]

and still is most of the time

but now in comparison to before it faar more punishing

its a you are a damned if you dont and you are damned if you dont do a wind strat

[cursive sierra]

I think with 0-16 wind was a bit too strong and solars (even asolars) were not viable too much

with current little lower wind solars and asolars are getting better

[swift saddle]

in the past there was way more maps with wind like 5-25 even

[cursive sierra]

5-25 is PURE wind map and making solar there is dumb
just like making windgens on moon

see hotlips

its just windfarm covered in 15 minute

[hybrid fractal]

yea hotlips is unplayable coz of super high wind ruining the gameplay

[cursive sierra]

i can say it fun to have such a map. just like its fun to have moon maps with no wind. but the majority of maps should be like 0-15 especially if the map played that much

[trail oak]

well could you tone down on the diversity just a little. Because its limiting the amount of cool shit you call build and is effectively limiting startegy diversity.

Shitting out a fatboy already effectively ends the game in high os lobbies because there is so little available counter play, Not because its not easily countered but because the stuff that mostly counter it are locked behind energy requirements

[knotty plover]

What if he made it 3-13? 😅

[trail oak]

and terrain....

[swift saddle]

weird take, wind variance is not something I think about pretty much ever

[trail oak]

I have no idea. All i know is 16 wind pre metal cost was op, post metal cost it was more risky but still doable. with 15 wind post metal cost it is ALOT worse. In terms of building snipersm supplied alot of t2 stuff, scaling eco. Like everything across the board had a big shift

[swift saddle]

if it bothers u that much why not just make adv solars like normal ppl do

[trail oak]

5k energy investment into 1 is a HUGE commitment and it has the same problem as with building a fusion. It stalls alot of your resources the first tiem you build it

[swift saddle]

I agree which is why its a skill issue to go into adv solars cleanly, u build 1st 1 while wind is high and dont put too much bp on it

[cursive sierra]

honestly i just think you stick to a single build too much and just don't want to adapt

[trail oak]

I like my whistlers and i like my wind farms

[swift saddle]

but I never saw any1 saying adv solars are bad or anything, I remember kuchy or some1 went through a phase of crying about the wind and he became an adv solar guy for a while

[trail oak]

i played 5 games withday with spamming only pawns and won all 5 of them

because pawns are op as shit but that is also very boring

i did play more then 5sry i ment i played 5 games with pawns only

[cursive sierra]

i think it can be pretty easily countered by levelers (pounders)

but noone playing cor vehs

[trail oak]

pounders are great but not many people use them for good reasons

i mean i usually use them against raikoh or ragna or azrael who generally spamm alot

but the issue there is more in the fact that other units are still not as good with dealing with pawns as pounders

so is changing the wind to 16 something you can consider? or is it completly out of the question

[cursive sierra]

i consider it if more than just one person ask for it...

sorry but you are in a minority currently

[trail oak]

ill go rally up some support then. after i have have my sleep

[rare vector]

I always felt like its glitters's speciality how wind can tank to 0. I think it makes the map more interesting, wind drops are noticable and good players will make redundancy measures if they dont want to deal with 0 E etc.. solars are viable, which is rare. Just the fact that its rare to have both powers viable should be a + for the map.

Punishing players that arent willing to adapt is just like, normal, expected. Adjusting map parameters to a single person OR to make the gameplay more samey, bland (just wind spam, no thought produced in brain) is a bad idea

On one hand ppl be saying BAR is getting screwed because interesting decision get removed (trajectory...), on the other hand, with wind, its the opposite whine

[hybrid fractal]

The hills like this one really break the bombers attack script
Not sure if you can help it but it's atrocious

[lime apex]

The game without "middle hills" was slower;

Since map change the game avg. length is like 20mins

bad for afusing

Wind being 15 allows for less FOMO solar gameplay; feels more balanced;

since wind nerf the "unlimited energy overflows" are little to none (when everyone has full e bcs mass overflow)

[night marsh]

I love how gex shows the wind trends in a game. Great tool to have

[untold lagoon]

yo @cursive sierra thanks for the hard work here. Is there a change log on updates?

[regal harness]

Lower wind is better in general it forces people to expand instead of making wind

[meager osprey]

nah

[cursive sierra]

kind of

[cursive sierra]

here for 1.2

[candid helm]

@trail oak Git gud, make solars, aSolar, e storage, stop grief all your teammate with your bad winds blueprint that block every path for monospam whistlers. 0-15 winds make the game more interesting and diversified with more smart eco management imo, and yea it punish noobs winds only spammer

[untold lagoon]

where at @cursive sierra ? would be awesome to see pinned

[long frost]

#1372480667526631485 message

[timid flax]

bigallman is just raging about bad build lmao

hes all in gambling on variable eco and mad at map maker when he loses the gamble

[novel helm]

I think 0-15 is a improvement over 0-16. Makes solar more viable while still being the underdog.

Could it be changed to 1-14 or 2-13 to reduce rng? Sure. Is it needed? Probably not

[long frost]

If it goes down to 14 the minimum should be 0.5 at most imo. Maybe reduce the max to 14.5 to compensate so the average basically doesnt move at all.

[lime apex]

Somehow nearly or rather all games I played/ spectated were giga quick; there is 0 afusing; 0 chill;

Where are chill glitter games o.O

[loud oasis]

everyone sweating

[hybrid fractal]

it will probably stabilize after a few years and 3k games on the new map, learning takes time
also would help if Laudy wasn't super op and winning every games

[lime apex]

eww typical frenchie trying to act cute; right before "celebrating" by burning the cities down

@zinc dock russian femboy carry slave

[lime apex]

even low rating games are quick girl

[loud oasis]

damn, map is gonna be part of rotato soon

[trail oak]

Laudy why is the lobby dead? what have you done?

[lime apex]

Every game is like 15min avg

[trail oak]

did you femboy slave strat again?

[lime apex]

imo ppl burning out by how many games just get played in such a short time;

perhaps its all due to changing the dynamics of having weak side (canyon) and strong side (anti canyon)

now all lanes are basically in decent spot

[zinc dock]

[trail oak]

i dont think its balanced

[lime apex]

Yeah current "canyon" is rather op

op and braindead lrpc access

[lime apex]

thats ok though

I just dislike how quickly the games go; the tempo of the game is too quick

[trail oak]

Gather forces and push down enemy rainbow lane = Win game or cause enough damage to win game

[loud oasis]

op tremor go brrrtttt

metal income for anti canyon and canyon are roughly equal if canyon denies the 5 mexes

[loud oasis]

dust clouds? atmosphere?

[coral portal]

Lol I fixed the energy nerf in this map by combining literally 1-2 asolars on my build order 😂

[hybrid fractal]

It's very good looking map, the terrain is more cinematic, gameplay evolved a little bit from previous version and it's actually pretty good
Considering it's the most played map - 9/10 👏

[cloud trail]

I like map too, lowering the wind just makes it more balanced I think, bigall said earlier that 16 is minimum to have windfarms, which I disagree with because even on maps with max 12-14 wind its still decently more effeciant to have mainly winds, u just sprinkle in solars and e-stores for redundency

[rugged elbow]

I think 15 max wind is fine even though I'm a wind enjoyer
new map feels more dynamic and thankfully my 'canyon' does not die 5 minutes into every match anymore.

I'm also a fan of the new 3.2 mex locations in mid except for blue side rainbow lane 3.2

[cursive sierra]

I liked that 7-8 player skirmish deciding game result in the middle. reminds some 5v5 in MoBa in the endgame

i think dustclouds are merged into the game, tell me if its too distracting or something

[steel jay]

the lowest that wind is good is 9-9.5, I'd only wind farm over 10

and only when you are starved of metal

[cursive sierra]

0-15 results in 11 average

[steel jay]

wind farming can be fine but the main downside is it takes a while to set up -- when you build a lot of bp you can't make any othe rplay

and there's ineffeciencies AFTER you finish wind farming, you have all this useless mobile bp

also min 0 is fun

[lime apex]

At least now we know Glitter players are addicted to 12x20 map format

[lime apex]

Well, after 40+ games on Smolders - I predict this map will not be liked by glitter players

Its tempo is too high;

[rare vector]

Its close to a rotato map now, and facing old rotato t2 unit rush problems

Well, "problems", depending how you see them

[chrome yew]

I think the quaker build is about as good on the old map lol

[cursive sierra]

i was thinking about widen it

[cursive sierra]

i assume that smolders map existing and the fact glitters players played it a lot already can affect glitters gameplay as well

like people can learn different things and try them on old glitters

while they never would if only glitters played

[regal harness]

Widen it !!!!

[cursive sierra]

next map

for glitterato

seriously i doubt it happen any time soon. next will be hellas basin change i guess

[regal harness]

Jesus

[lime apex]

nah you will get flamed for that; Isthmus players absolutely hate any change

just stick with "All that-"

[steel jay]

the isthmus map has changed more times than glitters tho xD

[lime apex]

and all we can hear is moaning

[vernal tartan]

The primary reason you are experiencing “high tempo” is because there are no more “dunce” positions

You’re used to dunces sitting in their canyon being well… dunces

With 8 spots now unlocked to play the game, rather 6 with 2 just cowering in terror — due to the more 1-way exploitable terrain advantage (through higher elevation), weaknesses in your opponents defenses are now regularly piled on by 7 people

Whereas it used to just be a 5 person pile on and a couple dunces taking a breather

It never “had” to be that way in glitters, when you had people that knew how to play the game take canyon spot you also had higher tempo games, but on smolders you can do that without also sacrificing also having a good player in what was considered a “carry spot”, those carry spots now face more threats from the canyon so they are less op than on glitters

[steel jay]

5v2 gang always op

plp don't realize , oh the canyon built 1 too many dragon claws? ok just gang the rainbow instantly

[regal harness]

It’s not true really since canyon should fall so behind when t2 units come out

[distant rampart]

If you’re talking about new canyon no

They’ll only start falling behind if they can’t control front or at about 14-18 mins once AC has upgraded more mexes

Plenty of time to make sufficient impact on the game

[lime apex]

Yeah mentioned it above as well

[lime apex]

.

[misty karma]

It would be interesting to see even more maps based on glitters. Then glitter players could become rotato players by playing all the glitters versions. 😄

[lime apex]

just 1 map missing

rotating two maps is eww

[rare vector]

Jungle glitt with a pond and crystal reclaim when? All that Shimmers, baby

[wanton grail]

I'd love a version with crystal reclaim and a small pond somewhere. Not a fan of jungle though

[rare vector]

Some kind of cave-ish vibe would also be cool, suitable for crystals

[trail oak]

@cursive sierra From the statements i have gathered so far about wind speed and energy, The opinions are mixed. Roughly half think the windspeed is fine and half think its fine but the risk is abit to high.

I was going to write a whole lab rapport about it but looking at the limited data i can almost say what the conclusion will be, and it will say that it lacks the sufficient backing to warrant an intervention or a reversion. So im dropping the matter.

[distant rampart]

just play hades?

[rare vector]

But hades isnt glitters

[distant rampart]

lmfao

[wanton grail]

yea hades themed glitters would be dope

[lime apex]

tbh I would not mind water type of glitters

but idk if thats possible;

[distant rampart]

raise water level 330

[lime apex]

eww

[rare vector]

Not navy glitt but ability to do some amphib plays would be cool

[distant rampart]

oh my bad

[rare vector]

Or even seaplane rushing. I think it would fit glitters geography more, since the open-ness doesnt let you just funnel everything into seaplanes

[novel helm]

We need a pond instead of canyon

All That Puddles

[meager osprey]

haha

[knotty plover]

All those cenotes

[astral basin]

you can have that if you do !bSet debugcommands invertmap

but prepare to wait a long time with nobody joining the lobby - i tried xd

[trail oak]

I dread the day when it turns into all that's solar

[fierce turret]

congrats..?

[cursive sierra]

i wont do isthmus change now, though it need some cove fix

[cursive sierra]

yea may be

i have few ideas

[coral portal]

It’s a comment for the one insisting on rebuffing the wind nerf from 15 to 16 like if it was a massive thing

You can literally add an asolar to your build order and be fine instead of trying to pressure people here to go back to how it was

[lime apex]

Well, it is a massive thing actually

[candid helm]

It is a massive thing

[coral portal]

A massive asolar for sure

[finite mantle]

If you think 0.7 avg wind speed diff is a massive thing maybe you just didnt realize ATG was mostly solar map all along.

[lime apex]

I have been saying this all along

but that 1 wind was enough for it to be viable - massive overflow of whole team into burst of unlimited e

it compounds

[rare vector]

I'm just happy asolars get to see the light of ... Smoldering ash-cloud day

[lime apex]

also I think wind logic is not as simple;

0-4 e makes your e income basically worthless /wind

[finite mantle]

wind is still viable but the decision never changed. you make solar by default, and wind when it peaks, you dont make wind by default and solar when wind drops. thats bad macro

[lime apex]

plus glitters has 80 mexes - which is basically flat demand ->

[rare vector]

Aesthetics wise, Smolders should be more windy and glitters more solar, but i dont wanna stir that pot

[cursive sierra]

anyone played with dustclouds?

ok looks like its not in game yet

[cursive sierra]

sunset actually

[steel jay]

Eh solo techer you make wind (on old map)

• 1 asolar

Solar ties up too much metal

Other positions you can solar a lot yeh

and as your amexes come up you can solar a bunch

[edgy spear]

@knotty plover do you have some widget for displaying the wind speed of the game or did you extract it from gamefile and plot it then?

[knotty plover]

It's the gex replay viewer

[candid helm]

https://gex.honu.pw/

[glacial wing]

Finally atg is dead

Today is a great day

[cursive sierra]

lol?

[hybrid fractal]

All that Flats

[wanton grail]

all that swamps

[wanton grail]

it rose reborn from the ashes like a phoenix

[long frost]

Will those ponds support tidal gens?

[lime apex]

OMFG i WANT TAHT

I LUV FLATS/ forests

NIKUKSIS IS COOKING

[lavish rampart]

All that mowers looking pretty fire

[rare vector]

Swamp aesthetics are bomb

[lime apex]

Though

those hills in the middle look dangerous;

I smell fuckin rattle there

eww

[rare vector]

i think ability to make a rattle on some high ground should be glitters requirement

players like glitt because they can tech

[fierce turret]

https://tenor.com/view/ultra-kill-minos-prime-minos-free-at-gif-26917154

[cursive sierra]

planned as NO, and to be passable shallows

[glacial wing]

What's the point of water if you can't build flagships in them smh

[fierce turret]

true!

[lime apex]

we arrakis boys do not like water that much

its ok

[hallow temple]

Flagships on ATG wasn't on my 2025 bingo card

[rare vector]

so no seaplanes in glitt?

maybe just 1 pond is seaplane deep?

seapond start sounds catchy, no?

maybe AIR could get a seapond start? imagine air having an option to straight up go seaplanes? does that sound ebola or no?

[cursive sierra]

wait i havent even ran it once

need something to shape first then i can modify

probably it will be deep ponds

[glacial wing]

Pls flagship pond

[novel helm]

I love it. Ugly color, though

[cursive sierra]

planned to be center command biome

[fierce turret]

i wish it was possible to have like, dense vegetation that you can move through easily but that is nonetheless destructible so with enough effort you can dig through

like how forests are used in aoe for exemple

[fierce turret]

this gave me the idea bc then the canyon could be made of a mangrove that you can dig through with enough firepower or buildpower

[real rampart]

It's supposed to be a swamp

[cursive sierra]

yes its pending, will try to do it pretty

[lime apex]

Any chance we would for the first time get trees to reclaim for e?

some of us never seen Tree dlc

[novel helm]

Will theese maps go live? Could be cool to see an all that rotatoing lobby

[lime apex]

You gotta give him much love so he prioritizes us

Dont be useless, Kellar.

[novel helm]

No

I will criticize every minor mistake. U know me

[winged sand]

The king is dead, long live the king!

[winged sand]

Just blow your com in a pond and it deep enough for seaplanes now

[half linden]

This as a long side vs long side would be great. Like a short flats and forest.

[novel helm]

Canyon could maybe have some trees and reclaim in this one

It wont be canyon but forest

[rare vector]

I trust in Nikuksis fully and unconditionally

[novel helm]

Forest is dead again

Gg

[rare vector]

any ideas what sort of defender's advantage a new canyon should have? i think it's good that it's different to mid regarding traversability or defender's position

[novel helm]

Apart from hills its tricky.

Maybe add ponds and trees, and then add a tidal value to 15 or something. Slightly better solar value from that

[burnt skiff]

my entire feedback for map: playing anti canyon is genuine cancer.

[novel helm]

On smolders, yes. Yes it is.

[rare vector]

i was thinking is front part of the new swampy canyon is at points protected by a couple ponds with ways inside, but the backside of the canyon is like a very tall, relatively small plateau which can defend the front, but defence can't extend into anticanyon area. could be interesting dynamic

could also make it so front canyon can't retreat to the back one straight up but rather through rainbow lane backside

[regal harness]

Nikuksis is this working as intended?

[cursive sierra]

whats wrong?

red army on the rock? seems totally fine to me

[regal harness]

Ok. Just always thought this lost temple stuff was bs xd

[hallow temple]

This is normal behaviour from bro from what I've seen

[rare vector]

Trotski plays mountain position, looks normal

[trail oak]

That is the Trotski special.

Its very easily countered tho

You instantly pack up your base and move to either the Eco player or the rainbow player

Place down a t2 vehicle lab and pump out like 1-3 negotiators/ambassidors. And kill trotski

[steel jay]

you just make 3 shellshockers

target his lab he can't make lab

station fighters and a whistler outisde

[trail oak]

shellshockers dont work

they get outranged by maces/thungs

[steel jay]

the instant you see him flying in you make 3 shell shockers
you will have them out before he's making lab

[trail oak]

yes but most people start bots

[steel jay]

well yeah ig then that's the next best thing to do

[trail oak]

dont get me wrong building 1-3 shellshockers would absolutly work if you are fast enough

but just speaking from experience when trotski has done this to me. We usually just rush a t2 lab and pump out atleast 1 ambassidor. i takes less then 60 seconds

[steel jay]

yeah coop anything is helpful

[trail oak]

since you have 2 coms, 1 con turret, and maybe one or two con vehicle

[steel jay]

coop amba also good vs rattle rush (althouh supported coop quakers also works and is cheaper / more flexible)

[trail oak]

games dont usually get to that stage

atleast not on glitters, you usally have at the minimum 5 quakers up by 6 minutes or a fat buy that finishes up the game unless the otherside counters with their own t2

if it is countered by t2 then you end up in a scenario with which team pumps in more metal into the eco player who is pumping out the t2 vechicles

[steel jay]

yes it's more of a straights thing to coop rattle

but basically glitters frontlab coop t2 eveyr game
same as if you do 1v1 glitters

[trail oak]

yeah... i have stopped playing this game for now because its soo boring

[steel jay]

yup taken refuge in 1v1 and small teams (coop disabled)

[cursive sierra]

taxes could help probably
and payment for unit sharing

but its offtop

[novel helm]

Okay damn

U're cooking. This actually is nice to look at too

U need to make tidal value 15-20 to balance canyon

[cursive sierra]

still wip

may be, balance is pending currently

springs side has two geos now as you can see

[novel helm]

ah cool

[cursive sierra]

also the wind will be pretty high
planning 1-19

so ageo wont be that op

also theres like 500k energy reclaim on the map
so noone will starve in energy ont hat map 😄

[novel helm]

How much E per sec does a rezzbot claim from each tree?

[cursive sierra]

standard for now

[novel helm]

How much is standard?

[cursive sierra]

i think near 50 iirc

i lowered it for flats and forests and greenhaven to 27e/sec

[novel helm]

Im just curious, its possible to put down metal reclaim that is really slow to reclaim? Talking like 0.3 per 100bp

[cursive sierra]

yes its possible

[novel helm]

That could be cool for some zones maybe, idk

[cursive sierra]

also can be energy and metal in one feature, so it also splits

[novel helm]

Any good names for this?

All That Blimmers? 🪴

[cursive sierra]

still thinking

[novel helm]

You could add a bunch of frogs, bunnies and other small animals and call it All That Critters

[novel helm]

When is this going live?

[cursive sierra]

dont know, have to polish it and test

tomorrow may be

[cursive sierra]

sounds fun but we have only crabs,ants,gulls,penguins and goldfish

not fit jungle too much

[novel helm]

Crabs, ants and goldfish could fit?

Just a few pog

[cursive sierra]

its more like desert ants i think

[novel helm]

I think a few critters would be cute

[cursive sierra]

gulls will be good tho

[novel helm]

ye

[hybrid fractal]

Glitters dudes gonna play on a watter map now lol

[winged sand]

the contrast and colors are pretty sick, that's awesome

[hallow temple]

why @cursive sierra so OP

[rare vector]

Man,this guy singlehandedly keeping BAR on constant CPR

Wp nikuksis, goat

[cursive sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-you-aww-golden-girls-blanche-devereaux-shy-gif-23876713

[vernal tartan]

This looks amazing, thank you @cursive sierra

[rare vector]

One of these geos will be Cerebrus gaming for sure. I like it though, glitters players always liked defensive options, cuz in rotato many players never experience t2 themselves

[lime apex]

girl; wp. amazing work

so... when next map?

now that we have 3; lets skip and get 4th o.O

[misty karma]

With 3 maps glitter rotation lobby should be possible, I hope there will be a special map pool for that

[cursive sierra]

i moved them back enough so cerby wont be that good, probably if enemy is in range its resign time already

but deeper in base its harder to bomb ageo either

[rare vector]

it's good IMO. it's a defensive cerb and the openness of new swampy canyon deserves a leverage

[novel helm]

Id suggest tidal to be set to 17 or 18 for canyon. Thoughts?

[cursive sierra]

i think it will be worthless with 1-19 wind and geos

[novel helm]

1-19 wind is too op imo

Why not keep it like it is, or make it 2-14 with average 10-11 like it is if u gonna change anything (To reduce rng)

ive noticed in smolders with 0-15, wind has its place early on, and sometimes u even wanna make a few more. Its a perfect balance

1-19 is so good u wont even see fusions anymore. Just everyone bigbaldman spamming winds everywhere. Its bad for gaming

[novel helm]

This glitters map is so pretty though. Giving me eyegasm

[lime apex]

nah keep the super high wind

flats and forests vibes op

[regal harness]

1-19 wind is so op you almost dont need to expand

[heavy bison]

We have 200 wind maps, and like 4 solar maps. Please stop making wind maps

[novel helm]

Please dont make it a super wind map

1-15 is fine

Wind is already way too gud

on smolders

Heck id even be fine with 2-13

[cursive sierra]

other two "glitters" are not too windy

i think we'll try it with higher wind

ok 1-19 may be overkill but 1-17 is ok i guess

[heavy bison]

But you still spam wind on them. I want more solar maps

[cursive sierra]

i like solars too, but this will make double ageo way too op

would be fun to see them exploding from bombers or lrpc tho

[heavy bison]

I mean, it's your map, but 99% of the map pool is wind, and it's sad that we almost never get solar maps

Would be a cool difference from original ATG

I think Moonshine was the last solar map introduced right?

[cursive sierra]

i guess so

its also looks pretty similar to glitters btw
probably can be included to glitterato maplist

[regal harness]

moon glitters

[novel helm]

1-16 is absolute maximum, imo

1-17 is nutts

[regal harness]

anything over 1-16 is meme wind and ppl will just turtle and make wind it's cancer

[novel helm]

They kinda are, but its fine really. We are used to wind being OP

Spamming wind is literally never bad

untill u can print afuses at least

[cursive sierra]

what if 5-12 for example

lower average, but no real outage instead

[novel helm]

Next glitters could have something like 0-12, making it 50/50 solar wind map with an average of 6. Some players may go solar, others may go wind. Technically, average 6 still means wind is better than solar if we ignore the stability factor

[regal harness]

making players have to venture into the map to get resources is a good thing

[cursive sierra]

though i like wind being a risky gaming

[regal harness]

i think 1-15 is fine for glitters with good wind

a worse wind version could have 2-12 or 13 maybe

[novel helm]

I like it too. 16/1 is as far as Id push it though. Or its gonna be a wind fest. I dont know if u have seen bigbaldman blueprints, but its basically 100s of solars on the entire map. And this is the right play if wind is over 0-16

[regal harness]

wind being able to go to 0 is just sorta cancer idk. so rng

[novel helm]

Honestly id just put new map at 2-14

[regal harness]

2-15 is so op tho

[novel helm]

yea, typo

[regal harness]

i think min 1 is reasonable idk someone who's better at macro in bar can say

[novel helm]

Currently we have OP wind (glitters). Strong wind (Smolders). If we want to make the grass glitters super OP I wouldnt push it past 16-1. If Niku makes a ''solar'' glitters, it could be 0-12 or 1-11 with an average of 6, making both solar and wind a viable choice.

[regal harness]

going past 1-16 just ruins maps look at hotlips

[cursive sierra]

[regal harness]

if hotlips were 1-15 it would be an ok map

and sorry i didnt know you also made that even

[cursive sierra]

i didnt

[regal harness]

oh remake

[cursive sierra]

i'd never set 25wind lol.
remade it yes, but only texture

[regal harness]

nice

[cursive sierra]

0-16 then? like classic glitters

[regal harness]

your maps do look amazing btw and they play better than any of the other maps for the most part. i think the thing that frustrates some of us with them though is the positional imbalance on some of them although it seems like it's not as bad on new glitter

[cursive sierra]

we have space for tidals now either

but i actually don't want to set high enough tidal

[regal harness]

im too noob at macro to say but anything that means you dont have to leave base i hate

[novel helm]

@cursive sierra glitters already has a rlly high wind speed. If we want this map to be an even higher, trust me, setting the wind speed to 1-16 will make a massive difference over 16-0

[regal harness]

0-16 is already busted yes. supreme is meme level

[cursive sierra]

@rugged elbow @swift saddle @earnest cloak @hybrid fractal @finite mantle @eternal torrent
pro thoughts on new glitters winds?

[novel helm]

Higher wind just means faster scaling, more porc and less pushing

[eternal torrent]

If tidal is exposed you can give some value like 20-21-22-23, if not I will stick to 15-16-17

[novel helm]

Also faster t2, less t1

[eternal torrent]

0-15 is fine imo

[cursive sierra]

theres room for back tidals

[long frost]

a high energy reclaim map with wind at 4-10 or something similar to that would be interesting. Stable but suitable enough to maybe go for asolar with lots of reclaim to maybe go pure asolar instead after some rez bots.

[cursive sierra]

though the AC got like 2x more metal, im afraid 2x geo could not be enough

3.2 marked

[hybrid fractal]

If you want to have a glitters theme and keep somewhat the same map design, i think you should also keep the same wind, it's very iconic and unique to glitters, makes gameplay more interesting imo. Or you can have some very average wind like flats which makes solar and wind both viable.

[cursive sierra]

honestly i don't want to balance tidals space with precision...

[novel helm]

4-10 would still be wind dominated

[long frost]

What would its average be?

[novel helm]

Probs 7 or 8?

Youd open solar, then mass winds and storages untill fusion

Asolar is dog in every way bellow 7 avg

[long frost]

If it needs a lower to be encouraging a mix thats suitable. Its purely a suggestion Nikuksis can totally ignore my thoughts.

[cursive sierra]

ok, i will keep classic glitter wind for now
we could return to that question later in future versions if needed

[novel helm]

Old glitters wind of 16-0 encourages wind, and wind only. Maybe 2 solar as an opening for stability and buffer for your e storages during low wind.

Increasing it past that adds nothing to the map and is bad in every way

[cursive sierra]

yes i like that too, but i wanted ageos not being too op

[long frost]

Thats fair. You could also put slow reclaim items over geo spots to gate their earliest creation time.

[cursive sierra]

currently theres shitton of e reclaim

[eternal torrent]

It’s not glitters right

It’s a different map right

[cursive sierra]

yes its 3rd

[eternal torrent]

So you have glitters , smolders and this one

[cursive sierra]

correct

[hybrid fractal]

Otherwise on the map design, i like the idea of the water much more than having height difference, i think the only way to successfully do hill battle is with symmetry like on DSD so both players have the same chances of controlling the hill but on glitters it's obviously not possible to do that way.
Im not sure you can do better than the 2.2 version with the hills both blocking terrain but also allowing to build stuff on them with the help of transport, it was suited for repeat gameplay coz it allowed games to play differently, there was a lot of variance on 2.2 that molders doesn't have but water will be a nice change to try.

[long frost]

You could always make it underwater geothermals they can only be T1 I believe.

[novel helm]

Unbuildable/untraversable hills is also an option for future glitters maps

Also one note that I think is cool. Corner backline behind canton can utilize that lake for tidals with a water con if u make tidals decent

[hybrid fractal]

Like for example on canyon you would play completely differently if you buy a early transport or not, build a gauntlet/rattle or not, then you would also addapt on what the enemy would do to push you, which was varied, from t1 to t3 timings ect...
New version is just the same thing on repeat not much variance, got bored of it kinda quickly.
Glitters 2.2 was played on repeat for a good reason, was a very very good map

[novel helm]

They should be more cost efficient than asolars at the least

[cursive sierra]

it still is

[eternal torrent]

Sea HLt is op on those ponds maybe ?

Make sure you Can dgun it ?

[novel helm]

No idea, never play sea

Is it better than land porc?

That could be an interesting defenders adv. For canyon

Also, make sure we can fit a flagship in there

[eternal torrent]

Sea HLt is super strong compared to land HLt

Also like 1.75x the HP

Looks good so far imo the map , sounds interesting

[hybrid fractal]

You probably would need to update the graphism on it, people used to nice looking glitters now

[cursive sierra]

i think 2.2 looks really good
everyone just get bored a bit with it

[swift saddle]

yay im tagged as a pro

@carmine frigate imagine not getting tagged, loser

[hybrid fractal]

Yea, it's just it's only 1 color i guess

[cursive sierra]

was he on the thread?

[swift saddle]

nah just felt like flaming him

pretty sure i wrote my opinion last time ppl were discussing the wind "i dont think about wind at all"

[cursive sierra]

yeah its a new map
i mean not smolders

[swift saddle]

i prefer higher but i just see different varieties of wind income and metal income as being like different ways of playing the game not rly attach any opinion to it

low metal map like dsd just as fun as high metal map like roseta

same for wind, although actually lately I do think hotlips wind is really kinda boring

u beter off asking glittards if they care about wind, cuz their meta so stale that some minute difference gonna feel like world is collapsing

like nooo my 3000 games of experience down the drain

even if its diff map itsstill kinda the same techer meta etc

[hybrid fractal]

Sheep making fun of glitters players was fun 10 years ago, it's the new world now, everyone is equal and rotato doesn't have a op lobby gg

[swift saddle]

that wasnt even making fun that was an actual comment, if u played 3000 times same map a tiny diff is gonna drive u nuts

[hybrid fractal]

wdym the wind on glitters is not the same every games anyways

[swift saddle]

i dont even know whats changed why am i even comenting

[hybrid fractal]

maybe you are right idk, im going to bed

[swift saddle]

dunno better asking some spreadsheet warrior like @lime apex

the fact that nikuksis even did anything with wind kinda makes me think he got baited into making a change cuz of 1 crying dude

assuming its related to that random dude crying about wind the other day

[carmine frigate]

im am noob

[cursive sierra]

flea testing

[rare vector]

Looks really good visually

[cursive sierra]

there's 1 thousand of them

yeah smolders looks so bland after it 😄

[rare vector]

I love the idea of defenders advantage with naval hlt.

[cursive sierra]

i came to watch some

[rare vector]

Its bland but i love its aesthetics. Has a different vibe

Saw u 20min ago in that last game of ours

[cursive sierra]

the important thing to not let offenders build naval HLT

those ponds are like 2.2 canyon

it can be used by AC either

[rare vector]

I would also prefer lower wind vs higher. I like that glitt theme is 0 wind possibility

This is unique and affects gameplay

[cursive sierra]

i just thought it could be cool to have different things in different glitter maps and with high e reclaim and few geos per side wind wont be that op and the only source even if it will be high

[swift saddle]

disregard bar, play poe on friday, profit

https://tenor.com/view/dune-dune2021-liet-kynes-stillsuit-fremen-gif-27351226

real arrakis very windy

[cursive sierra]

yeah im waiting for poe

will drop the new map and quit xD

i have very good smol group found private league im playing for past few years

[cursive sierra]

i have cool new remake of OTA desert biome

probably i'd give 2.2 new skin with it

[real rampart]

If people complain about wind you can always make a map that has none of it, just solar

All that asteroids

[fierce turret]

I absolutely adore the color palette here

[rugged elbow]

Is this intended to 'counter' the current quaker meta? (By making energy more abundant and opening up earlier sniper /starlight/mammoth timings, as well as quicker t2 labs for all) or we have a different aim with the buffed energy?

500k e reclaim & 1-19 wind seems like more than enough to sustain units like snipers that can force quakers & tzars while they themselves aren't that oppressive vs t1, just a bit worrying for tremor rushes especially with all the extra cliffs (which seem like you can land a tremor on)

overall I do like the higher wind, it doesnt make much sense from a wind vs solar balance perspective(which I think will just be worse with reclaim) , but wind is dominant right now anyways so might as well up it to help frontliners escape the t1 vs tech tzar/quakers jail earlier, if wind is higher you need less wind turbines for t2, meaning you can use the metal you would otherwise build turbines with to make a t2 lab instead

although 1/19 might be a lil too high and allow for too many high tech unit rushes with the amount of metal you get on a lane like AC for example (its already easy enough to rush t2 while fighting the opponent right now because you have more metal,the only thing preventing you from doing it faster & for more E intensive units is the time it takes to build up enough winds) I would say maybe try out something like 1/17 2/17 0/18 or 1/18 first when testing but could be wrong

either way im biased towards higher wind just because im tired of fighting quakers/tzars & fatboy with t1 for like 5 minutes, id like it if it were 3-4 minutes instead

[candid helm]

Or fix spybots overnerf. The quaker/tzar rush meta is a little boring, it totally negate t2 bot lab as tech currently, gameplay diversity => 0

Yesterday i tried spybot a tzar with little xp boost, 3 spybots => 4s stun. Price of this 4s stun => 405 M + 26 400 E + 66 000 bp

[regal harness]

Spybot is fine against Quaker

[trail oak]

Hmm since the nerf to Tremors they have been more of an annoyance then a large threat. But 500k e reclaim GOD DAMN. thats to much!

[dusty plume]

So no metal reclaim anymore? Just energy?

[trail oak]

not sure but he so far only said energy

but i am also more worried about the energy

Currently on all that smolthers, the gameplay does not allow for effective counter t2 by frontline players, So literally every game has been. Option A communism/coop etc,,, or Option B ecoplayer build tzar,Fatboy, quakers

then win

[dusty plume]

We have that strat with ATG 2.2, I was doing it from back then so its not map problem its commie problem

[trail oak]

ye ye it is

but i ment like. FUll on balls to the wall communism vs communism light 🙂

[finite mantle]

I think its perfect for teaching new players (and glitter veterans sometime too xd) about the energy storage tax.

The bigger the difference between minimum wind speed and average wind speed, the more you pigeon hole players into pure wind eco, setting them up for failure when it inevitably crash.
at 11.2 average with minimum 0, adv solar vs wind +storage is almost as efficient as each other. It's a good balance.

the 0 minimum is a very punishing for high level glitters where people have front labs and are able to quickly capitalize on wind draught:
Its very snowbally when each team's labs are close to each other and suddenly, one side stops producing unit because of wind speed.
On old glitter, as anticanyon, I got many cows because wind crashes at the 3 to 7 min mark with my front lab thug push off solar eco.

If you want to make the map more competitive, you could make a higher minimum and keep the average similar. either way it works right now.

[heavy bison]

Someone's never played Otago

[regal harness]

That map is good yeah. Might be the size that helps I’m not sure

[trail oak]

Poe 1 or 2?

[cursive sierra]

its poe1 league start in friday

[hybrid fractal]

Poop balancing gaming is the best isn't it, next season will be so good

[burnt hamlet]

@cursive sierra adding 2 geo for eco player

[cursive sierra]

it was way too op previously, like every raid, every attack just stunned with damn spybots or shuris or stiletto

spybots are not for stun but more for los thing, they are spybot not stunbots 😄

i will add new glitter map today i think, fog clouds will be added later when new BAR version released

[rare vector]

Damn, starting nightshifts i wont be able to play virgin map game like i did with smolders

Very happy for new glitt tho, cant wait to game glittato

[meager osprey]

Another map a dream comes true!

[meager osprey]

Thanks so much man this is really op

[novel helm]

Nikuksis is OP

Is there a thread like this one for the All That Forest map?

Or are you going to make one @cursive sierra

[cursive sierra]

nah i'll keep discussion here i think

[novel helm]

I think you should make a new thread tbh

Could create OP awareness

[cursive sierra]

keeping all in one glitterato thread will be easier to check imo

[chrome yew]

I'm worried nobody is ever gonna host the hill version again after this drops

short agressive games were not THAT bad

[novel helm]

@cursive sierra Any idea when its gonna be out?

[lavish rampart]

Awesome.... Painted Desert Remake incoming?

[novel helm]

o.o

[cursive sierra]

i will add maplist for glitterato

[cursive sierra]

yeah was plans for it, but interrupted with this glitters stuff

[lavish rampart]

That's so cool, it was one of my favorite maps from OTA, been loving the new ATG shake ups and all the maps man thanks for your hard work!

[cursive sierra]

yeah PD from ota is a legend

its a shame not having it in bar 🙂

[regal harness]

Thanks so much Nikuksis for all this work you're doing on these maps and engaging with community for feedback. rly cool

[hallow temple]

Glitterato before GTA 6. Nikuksis OP

[wispy needle]

New junglitters looking pretty asesome

[cursive sierra]

pushed the map to the game 🎉

also created maplist AllThatRotates, though its not pushed yet i think, will need mapsync for that at night

[burnt hamlet]

SEXY MAP

FIRST GAME I STEAL BOTH GEOS AS ECO

[fiery parrot]

Maps is sexy as fuck

I feel like AC got too much mexes

[tranquil spruce]

love the wind on this map

adding energy reclaim and geo is diversity

i think its more rotato player friendly now 😄

[rare vector]

Guuyss, i cnat play for 4 days, feed me info, screens, anything

Strats, anecdotes

[swift saddle]

inda says ur rly dumb for doing 10 tidal

just straight up worse than solar

[rare vector]

Almost as if it was intended to not make tidal power

[swift saddle]

im saying saying wat inda said dont shot mesenger

[astral basin]

I think those belong to ac corner now and AC pivots mid while ac corner kills the two "canyon" players. Speaking from the rich experience of one game.

[novel helm]

yea 10 tidal is literally pointless

[hybrid fractal]

well it's better than making it 0 so noobs don't get trolled and if someone does it anyways it's whatever

[cursive sierra]

yea, we can try more tidal.but i think 2 geos is good enough for pond positions

[misty karma]

Doesn't the 2 geos "force" people to do commie/coop?

[cursive sierra]

i'd better look how are greedy double ageo punished

[novel helm]

@cursive sierra why 10 tidal?

Kinda pointless

[lavish rampart]

Already seen 2 low tier games where some poor scrublord was making tidals all game with their commander in the back instead of going front and helping. 🪤

mans dropped a 3 mex into lab, and walked back to make tidals lol.....

[cursive sierra]

to make it pointless 🙂

[novel helm]

Then why not make it 0?

its a noob trap atm

[cursive sierra]

its fine

but probably island player got too low metal

and ai can give tidals instead. its just pain to balance space for them

i already hear whine that one side can build 3 tidals more

[lavish rampart]

But that 30e.....

[novel helm]

well

dont make tidals op. Make the mslightly more cost efficient than solars

That way u only want to make a few then go full wind

Instead of solars

[fiery parrot]

OK nvm map is even more retarded than smolders

[candid helm]

Then reduce their E & BP cost BY A LOT

Otherwise #1353364944350871632 message

[misty karma]

I haven't played the map yet, but what I saw on streams, I think 15 Tidal speed would be great and only 1 geo. @cursive sierra

[cursive sierra]

one geo is boring , no big explosions

params are pending currently, need playtest data and feedback

ideally something more constructive than just "OK nvm map is even more retarded than smolders "

[rare vector]

Dont listen to Ventias tho, he got bombed by t1 core at the age of 3 poor guy

[lavish rampart]

Time to meme a flagship

[lime apex]

tbh I would prefer this map being 17 wind

since we have glitters 16; smolders 15; and this green bastard could be 17

but its whatever

[rare vector]

What t2 labs currently dominate the early game? (Cant plaaayyyyyyy)

[cursive sierra]

i planned high wind initially, but people persuades me to make it just original which is high enough

[hallow temple]

It's not the geos that's just the game

[novel helm]

Seems fine for the roleplay, but for gameplay its crap

Wind is already super dominating, up it to 17 and u gonna see baldman winds everywhere and no fusions

It will not only ruin the map, it will turn it into a meme map

[regal harness]

I agree that 0-16 is like the upper bound of what I think is reasonable for a normal map. For tutorial map like isthmus it’s ok higher so they don’t e stall

[novel helm]

Actually, the lower winds is my favourite part of smolders

I think 0-15 is pretty spot on

[lime apex]

@cursive sierra any way to make "easy looking" maps in 14x20 like full metal plate?

[cursive sierra]

im bad at making artificial maps

[lime apex]

actually 12x20 format prolly more friendly for Glitter doggos

[cursive sierra]

we are trying new things

[molten hamlet]

Hey @cursive sierra , good job on All that simmers map! It is amazing

the colors are beautiful, easy on eyes too

What are the main differences between Glitters and Simmers in terms of Mexes, Wind, econ etc?

For example are there more mexes on the map or is it identical

[regal harness]

look at the maps lol

[cursive sierra]

too bright for my taste, but should be different from smolders 🙂

i like grim things like red planet or lava biomes

but for diversity is ok

i want to add parrots 🙂

need a texture for them tho

[molten hamlet]

I see! Nice!

What are the main differences between Simmers from Glitters? From your perspective gameplay wise

[cursive sierra]

simmers way more open and much more energy

better rush, worse statics, much better air

it also green

[astral basin]

My impression - it's aggressive, great for fast units - for a glittermap - , still the typical small front of ATG but the lack of canon-chokehold means you can snowball skill diff faster and the existence of the dual-geo spot exactly in the weak point makes these games especially fast in skillspread lobbies.

[steep bay]

love the new map game feel fast

[lavish rampart]

These geos are so easy to bomb.... game after game im seeing them get popped. The over water pathing seems to be leading to all but guaranteed ageo pops.

[steep bay]

i think its fine if you greed geo and die i mean

only thing they really die to is bombers unless you lose front

[cursive sierra]

a bit too fast i guess

[cursive sierra]

theres AA in game 🙂

[astral basin]

people need to learn to not put weak players geo-adjacent tbh

[steep bay]

we need it for 8v8 a lot of slow maps already please keep the pace

[lavish rampart]

Chevrolet is not really a qeak player lol...

Just noticing that of the 7 games I've watched 5 of them ended with geo popping.

[astral basin]

arguably, the ability to pop geo is a wincon and the game was decided not by popping the geo but by enabling that popping

[lavish rampart]

I'm suspicious it's being dismissed off hand, we shall see over time but I see legit reasons for the issue.

[astral basin]

what is it that makes them so vulnerable in your opinion?

[steep bay]

they are close together

[astral basin]

so like Forge?

[steep bay]

ye

[lavish rampart]

I'll list a few reasons once im not driving. But I see space issues and not just lack of it...but proximity and lane priority causes.

It's day 1 so, things change fast anyway

[cursive sierra]

i think i can make small hill on the middle part of island

so it will be defendable

[tranquil spruce]

so people complaining about adv geo booming , just make prude ?

[lavish rampart]

I think that might help. I'm gunna play a few this evening and see how it feels

[lavish rampart]

There's more going on than just "AA exists or geo is scary" at least when in the context of the other sister maps. Things like walk distance for lab placements, actual timings and available metal that rainbow can feasibly invest without throwing the lane etc.

Like the original ATG often the canyon mountain chain lacks AA during certain time frames, the water and general lane setups and areas of responsibility are possibly combining to make a bigger potential issue.

[tranquil spruce]

yeah its a whole different map imo

[lavish rampart]

I like the idea of adding a bit of a hill to help mitigate it a bit, its still really early and im just going off what I've seen in the last 7 hours in 1 high tier lobby.

[trail oak]

Is this map out? I am working 24/7 for 5 days, cant play #send nudes

[trail oak]

actually forget the nudes just send some print screens of the wind speed indicator

[dusty plume]

Its 16 winds and lots of e reclaim, rainbow player is the techer, air is optional, no useless corner because they have a lane too now.

Very good map💯

[novel helm]

Dude dont cave in to the noobs.. 2x geo is already op. If you seperate them.. no

[steel jay]

backline 1 geo not op enough

must make 2 geo makeable with same nano turret

well ig people will learn how to play paranoid geo spot

[rare vector]

What does mid backline do? Is double air sensible? I think it is

[novel helm]

Could go whistelers, or air

Double air? Why?

[cursive sierra]

i mean the hill for the corner lane. its currently dying in almost each game, since its very low on metal

also probably 15 tidal can help

[novel helm]

Maybe add a pond somewhere so they can easily add tidals without having to make beavers or heavily sacrifice com time to front?

I'm not sure if 15 is enough to justify it otherwise. Wind is still way more efficient, and even at 18 tidal u aren't gonna be tidal farming vs wind or fusion making.

Asolar is comperable. U can fit 5 tidals into an Asolar with 31 metal to spare for the Asolar way, with everything taken into consideration including energy costs. Keep in mind the Asolar also costs less bp at 8k vs 11k for the 5 tidals.

5 tidals at 15 = 75E = 1 Asolar. They become slightly less efficient than Asolar cost wise, and Asolar is slightly faster to build. But tidals pay off faster, and you can make them early. Its like cutting Asolars up into small portions very early into the game, but they cost less E to make per E generated vs slightly more metal. U might see tidal farms early, but it wont be nearly as cost efficient as winds or fusions later on. Just comparable to Asolar farms.

At 15 tidal, Id rather spam Asolars than tidals as its both slightly more cost efficient and less bp intensive + its more compact. And you need a beaver.

The problem then becomes logistics for early game. Are we going to sacrifice early reclaim for a beaver? Beavers are expensive, and they lack build power compered to a normal con.
Are we going to leave our com behind to make them instead of going to front?

The only way to make them useful, imo is to either increase it, or make them accessible early on.

Solar/tidal is only really usefull really early because of their relative low buildtime per avg. E it outputs, so you can get ahead really early, and the fact that u don't have storages. Of course the stability helps, but that's not really that good once u get a few E storages out.

[wispy needle]

Maybe extending the little mountains to the water to emulate the canyons + the little hills for pond would help in slowing down the map a bit- if that's desired

[rare vector]

I like that you can place rattle on all 4 biggest mid mountains. But 2 southern mid ones need an advanced estore tech before to level terrain which isnt an issue

[cursive sierra]

i checked for guardian and punisher, it fits without terraforming

[swift saddle]

u mean agitator and gauntlet old man

[rare vector]

I assume those are old names for persecutor and rattlesnake? I only specced but it seemed like for bottom 2 i couldnt place, but i could place t2 estore which is same size

[swift saddle]

https://tenor.com/view/joe-biden-presidential-debate-huh-confused-gif-9508832355999336631

[rare vector]

I guess gauntlet places same as estore.. dunno why t2 needs leveled terrain first, its the same

[swift saddle]

u have to remember probably most players arent sitting here with spreadsheet understanding numbers, I have never understood when is tidal worth or not worth I just always assume its worth and make it, same with winds tbh for most part

If I can make a tidal I kinda assume map maker isnt troling me

theres some ingame tooltip that says if wind is above average 6 its worth making, idk if thats a dumb widget and wrong or wat but i just assume its correct

there isnt 1 of those for tidal I probably wouldve assumed 10 tidal is fine if inda didnt make a fuss

[cursive sierra]

not agitator i think
agitator is popup no?

!whatwas gauntlet

how to use this bot...

$whatwas punisher

[olive pewter]

Gauntlet used to be called Guardian

[swift saddle]

core t1 arty is agitator, arm is gauntlet, I checked website cuz I dont know the names either

[cursive sierra]

$whatwas punisher

[olive pewter]

Punisher is now called Agitator

[cursive sierra]

ok, i think ill never remember new names

shame we cant reuse good old names

we had second renaming wave and already had the names for naming

[swift saddle]

ye it used to punish enemies now it just agitate them, very sad

[cursive sierra]

like new sumo should become golems

interesting is it real to buy copyrights for old names

or avoid sues somehow 😄

say its a parody game

im using map names for remakes, probably sueable too

[swift saddle]

copyright stuff was always a made up issue kinda, ppl just playing safe i guess, creator of TA aleady a fan of bar anyway

[cursive sierra]

dont like hills

[wispy needle]

Marsh instead? Something like tar affecting movement?

Maybe not fun to play

[cursive sierra]

this should be good i think

canyon is back

[wispy needle]

Now its a proper Castle, moat and all

Now its 3 clear lanes in the middle converging on the mid stage, with 2 lanes each side with one weak and one strong, and air for 8th

[novel helm]

U trying to kill anticanyon again? 🥲

Rip those hills

[cursive sierra]

anticanyon could fight mid instead

it has 1.5 metalcurrently ponds dying too fast

[novel helm]

rattles in these spots cant be countered. How many mexes do they deny?

u really should look at that before u add them in

[cursive sierra]

i have to render it first and check in game

[novel helm]

Thats a gauntlet. But it looks better than I thought

Yea, those are fine

[sour loom]

hey nikuksis, is there a dedicated map editor?

i was thinking maybe making one in javascript with threejs, I think I have the required skills

[glacial wing]

Rip I think I actually like a glitters map

[cursive sierra]

i don't think we need it

[cursive sierra]

no

[trail oak]

From what i hear, Canyon needs all the help it can get. Was iy raikoh who mentioned canyon dying 9/10 times?

[cursive sierra]

i see it myself yesterday

im adding big rocks to protect it and also tidals now viable

it also looks cool with rocks and springs between them with a fog

[trail oak]

Man i cant wait until wednesday when i get to play this

The wind speed is alredy giving me a massive erection

[chrome yew]

wooow