paleontology

[coral forge]

I'm not sure if we've found any dinosaurs that we are 100% certain filled the aquatic ambush predator niche of crocodiles

Probably because crocodiles are so damn good at it that nothing else even gets the chance to come close

[manic grail]

spino is the best contender i think currently

[coral forge]

Wouldn't spino just sink like a hippo because of dense bones

[full lagoon]

Also there are no truly aquatic or marine dinosaurs that we know of, though I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we find one eventually

[coral forge]

actually ig that wouldn't really affect its ability to ambush would it

[full lagoon]

Yeah penguins might count but at the same time they don't spend all of their lives in the water

[coral forge]

it doesnt have to live exclusively in water to be considered aquatic

[full lagoon]

So does this mean that certain spinosaurs may have fit the bill too?

[coral forge]

I mean mabye but definitely not to the degree that penguins do.
Spinosaurids would be aquatic in the same way herons are, whereas penguins spend ¾ of their lives swimming which is almost as much as seals.

[full lagoon]

Are there any truly parasitic dinosaurs? I know some birds will drink blood but that alone isn't parasitism

[hallow spear]

Spinosaurids likely can control their bouyency

[full lagoon]

You'd think they most definitely could looking at crocodilians and even certain birds

[full lagoon]

Also, that reminds me about the discussion we had on Ankylosaur and nodosaur buoyancy. While they are definitely known to flip over when dead and bloated, isn't there a chance that a living one, which would have a buoyancy somewhat similar to a mammal without it's armor, possibly sink when accounting for that extra density?

[tough parcel]

There was a study already done on it and yes, armored dinosaurs just sank like rocks

[full lagoon]

That's what I was referencing as well, but I think stego specifically is skeptical

[coral forge]

does this mean hippo anky is just as plausible as hippo lurd
-# (I know it doesnt just let me dream)

[full lagoon]

We gotta remember that the bird hipped dinosaurs weren't nearly as pneumatic as the lizard hipped ones

[stiff osprey]

Animals that are denser than water can still stay at the surface temporarily by paddling or kicking up from the bottom, so ankylosaurs could probably cross narrow bodies of water just fine. If it took more than a few minutes to swim across then they might get tired and sink

[outer tusk]

^

[coral forge]

imagine a species of dwarf ankylosaurs because they got stuck on an island like 500 meters from the mainland and just couldn't get back

[full lagoon]

I'm not arguing that they wouldn't be able to do anything about it, I'm talking about neutral buoyancy, even hippopotamus can stay above the bottom with effort

[coral forge]

how would an ankylosaur even swim
would it be similar to modern quadrapedal megafauna?

[full lagoon]

How does a rhinoceros swim? I'd assume it would be semi similar but even more awkward due to the body shape

[little mauve]

I doubt it would be similar to large mammalian quadrupeds, that float and bloat study showed that the tail pitches the back half down and the lung volume pitches the front half up. Which is convenient for keeping the head above water. Obviously armor density would be weighing the entire animal down but not in an even distribution. So probably somewhat in this position, kicking up from the bottom with its backlegs and paddling forward with its forelimbs

[coral forge]

imagine an anky using its tail club like a paddle
I assume they wouldn't have the range of motion to do that though

[little mauve]

It would probably have the range of the motion, the tail just wouldn't generate much thrust due to its shape

[full lagoon]

Yeah it's literally mostly flat lol

[hallow spear]

its relent to say that ankylosaurs are prone to capsizing

[coral forge]

I have a theory

[full lagoon]

Bruh lol

[little mauve]

non-bloated they don't seem to tip, nodosaurs tip either way though

[full lagoon]

Ankylosaur hip bones are so massive it's honestly insane and almost alien looking. I was able to look at the hip area alone once and I was shocked

[hallow spear]

yeah but another thing is the Euo model does not have enough armour

[little mauve]

yeah true, these models aren't armored or dense enough

[coral forge]

was there an indeterminate velociraptor species in nemegt?

[hallow spear]

the noidosaur one is fine, but the euo one is not

[little mauve]

the mean density for both is less than 900 g/L which I think the eofauna density paper found to be problematic

[opaque kayak]

I wonder if loons count since they can barely walk

[full lagoon]

Didn't said paper suggest that they would've been slightly denser than water?

[little mauve]

There is but I don't know if it's published anywhere outside of books

[coral forge]

do we know how big it is?

[little mauve]

https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.24574 I believe so, 1.05-1.1 NSGs

[little mauve]

I would just base it on V. mongoliensis as it's most likely the closest relative (or possibly the same species)

[coral forge]

alr
now I just need to wait for my phone to stop misbehaving and let me finish this chart

ngl I might have made it too big for such a small device

[manic grail]

i dont think this is confirmed

[little mauve]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04528-0 spino did have dense bones, suggesting some method of controlling its buoyancy in the water

[ancient crystal]

Spino was like a mola mola obviously, using its compressed body to float at the surface of the water when it wasn't actively swimming

[full lagoon]

Baby elephant ♥️

[coral forge]

whats the tyrannosaur in the back, nanuq?

[tough parcel]

Assumedly

[little mauve]

white pelted pack hunting nanuqsaurus at this point is a tropeasaur

[coral forge]

I like the idea of nanuq having a pelt similar to arctic foxes where it would go from brown in the summer to white in the winter for camouflage during all seasons

[tough parcel]

White feathered, yes

Pack hunting? Idk when that was showcased besides Pre Planet

[coral forge]

wwd 2013 had pack hunting nanuqs
there were like 4 of them iirc

[little mauve]

You might be right, I feel like I've seen it elsewhere though

I guess the things in WWD 2013 were still being called gorgosaurs and modeled after them but that might be what I'm thinking of

[coral forge]

3 adults (1 out of frame) and 3 babies
I assume the larger vibrant one is a male and the duller smaller ones are a harem or smth

[tough parcel]

Correct, the big blue one is Gorgon

[coral forge]

they made a documentary version without the voices and referred to it as nanuqsaurus

[outer tusk]

Auraosaurus

[little mauve]

gotcha I've only seen clips here and there I missed the whole thing

[coral forge]

the wwd 2013 nanuqs are probably my favourite tyrannosaurs in media ngl

[tough parcel]

That was a while afterwards tmk

During production, the remains were Nanuqsaurus but they were, at the time, referred to Gorgosaurus

[coral forge]

apparently it came out the day before the movie
but then again nanuq was only named 3 months after the movie was made

[little mauve]

Surviving Earth still looks good, I'll be watching

[wind prairie]

on the one hand this looks cool, something about the nanuq reminds me of WWD theropods (but in a good way)
but that bear in the front looks like a skinwalker

[hardy sentinel]

Wouldn't some penguins count as marine since they live primarily on sea ice?

[coral forge]

it looks like that one planet zoo statue

[lavish frigate]

Since when did bary and sucho also have the thicc boi newt tails?

[lavish frigate]

Am I the only one who’s not a big fan of the tyrannosaur model? Honestly looks lower quality than the other ones

[cloud dagger]

It’s not great

[ancient crystal]

The arms look out of place

[balmy oyster]

I thought that was supposed to be acro

[full lagoon]

Personally I care more about the portrayal of the show and creatures rather than the model being the best thing in the world

We'll have to see what the actual show is like (hopefully less biased and short-sighted towards animal groups and evolution than Life On Our Planet)

[compact leaf]

this is also a mock up I think, not the actual models as they’ll appear in the show

because the promos we’ve seen looked higher quality, and they have people like ugueto doing the animal designs

[charred hearth]

would large sauropods be unable to put in zoo's like modern day baleen whales are?

why do people want to regrow the sahara ?

[coral forge]

anyone have a saichania skeletal?

[coral forge]

because people want to make the world like it was before humans existed for some reason
same as how people want to "reforest" america despite it historically being mostly grasslands and desert

[full lagoon]

Would still be nice to rewild certain areas regardless, preferably to their historical state though.

[coral forge]

yeah, im not saying we shouldn't rewild, but rewilding in the wrong way would do more harm than good

like if you plant a forest in an area that was a prairie historically, the soil and animals wont be able to handle that many trees and the ecosystem would collapse completely

[full lagoon]

Exactly, though it still might be better than what we have now...

[compact leaf]

depends on how far back you go and which part of the country, most of eastern north america was historically forest even before people

[coral forge]

150,000 years ago only appalacia and the southeast would have been predominantly forest

[compact leaf]

why would you go that far back when considering habitat regeneration?

[balmy oyster]

Big reason why whales can’t really be kept in zoo’s is because having a trillion gallons of water to contain a single gigantic animal that needs to eat a ton load of tiny animals a day, is going to be a lot harder than something that just needs enough space on only one axis that requires plants to eat

We can definitely keep baleen whales in captivity but it would be impractical in the long run and detrimental to their health

[charred hearth]

wow https://hswri.org/jj-the-grey-whale

[coral forge]

that feeling when youre nearly finished a chart but there's a few dinos that you just cant find a skeletal for

[balmy oyster]

Sometimes you just gotta scale with relatives

[coral forge]

idk where to find the sizes because ik Google is like 50/50
its only 1 ankylosaur, 3 oviraptorids and 2 troodontids I can't find a skeletal for

I could probably scale down tarchia to get saichania and do something similar with the oviraptors
I'm only 5 dinos + a bunch of birds away from having every nemegt archosaur

[frosty gust]

https://youtu.be/9i0Re9vWqBE?si=M2erNrTYuNpFaUak

[rich vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/woo-yea-baby-woo-wooo-lets-go-happy-gif-20217200

[plush fossil]

Why did all the Pokémon stuff get deleted D : ?

[plush fossil]

NO WAAAYY

[coral forge]

ok thats every non-avian archosaur as far as I'm aware
now do I do the birds or leave it

[little mauve]

Birds and turtles

[coral forge]

I'm only doing archosauria not archelosauria
I will probably do birds otherwise it isnt really every archosaur but theyre really annoying and theres so many of them
wait nvm theres only 4 birds

[charred hearth]

how good of jumpers are dromeosaurids?

[jagged trellis]

better than me

[coral forge]

small ones would be great jumpers in relation to their body size, probably some of the best out of any vertebrae according to some, but the larger ones like utahraptor and achillobator mabye not so much

[wind prairie]

idk about that?? They don't really seem built for that to me but idk

[warped holly]

For you that are like actually interested in paleontology (or not) what is your favorite dinosaur?

[fossil ingot]

Cool Formation

[winter marsh]

half of it snacks half of it big chungus no inbetween

[coral forge]

pretty sure there was a trackway of a small dromaeosaur using its tail when sprinting giving it the largest stride to body length ratio ever or something
I might be thinking of something else though lemme check

[fossil ingot]

Yeah
Tarbo Goat

[coral forge]

fr
the only one I could find that's more or less easy to read is random's but thats only lower nemegt so I figured why not make one for all of nemegt since no-one else will
mine could mabye do with a bit of re arranging considering how clustered it is but its too late in the day for that now

[charred hearth]

what groups died during the local NA extinction?

[balmy oyster]

Chasmosaurs, Lambeosaurs, Daspletosaurini

Not everything from these clades died out, but a large majority did

[charred hearth]

really? i thought centrosaurines

[balmy oyster]

Whoops yea

Even then, I’m pretty sure only triceratopsins were the only surviving group of chasmosaurs by the end of the Cretaceous so both can count

Triceratopsins & some extra things that were more derived

[charred hearth]

didnt chasmosaurines live with t.mcreenis? like sierraceratops

[balmy oyster]

Those are the extra things that were more derived

[charred hearth]

ooh alright

do we know what caused that extinction?

[ashen creek]

Question: arent frog fossils a lil simular to pterosaur fossils?

[stiff osprey]

they both have fused hips and fused shins but the similarities end there

[ashen creek]

Pterosaurs have short tails, and then frogs lost it. Do you think that frogs are more releated to pterosaurs than reptiles? I've thought of this as a kid

[charred hearth]

???

[stiff osprey]

They're not, pterosaur vertebrae are very reptilian and so are their skulls

Frogs fused their shins so they would have better leverage when jumping, pterosaurs did it to reduce their weight for flying. Same as dolphins and sharks look similar but are entirely unrelated

[ashen creek]

They both hop when running, and both eat fish. Amphibians came before reptiles plus they existed together. My thought is that pterosaurs mightve evolved some traits from frogs

[ashen creek]

It is

[stiff osprey]

Pterosaurs used their wings to jump, frogs used their legs. And almost every vertebrate group eats fish

They did evolve from amphibians, but not from frogs specifically, more so an extinct line that was also the ancestor of every other reptile

[ashen creek]

dont pterosaurs use their legs to jump-run?

[stiff osprey]

they do a little 4-legged gallop but 90% of the power is in the wings, the wing bones are like 3x thicker than the legs

[charred hearth]

is that how quetz can break bones with a punch?

[ashen creek]

Mods make no sense, they are unbalanced af (especailly saurophaganax)

[winter marsh]

quetz could probably break small creature´s bones with a punch

[ashen creek]

Ture

[charred hearth]

???

[winter marsh]

same as how elephants could probably turn you into mush with a well placed kick

[ashen creek]

Its reason to my thought. Not ragebait... (Or maybe the message im replying to is ragebait?)

[ashen creek]

saur is saurophaganax shortned

[charred hearth]

other thing

[plush fossil]

This image has me dead

[wispy stone]

@slow warren let’s discuss here

[charred hearth]

what are y'all discussing?

[wispy stone]

About whether current pot rex model is close to accurate t rex or not

[slow warren]

First off one of the subs has no lips, and going off of tyrannosaurs and just terrestrial carnivores in general, would be extremely inaccurate

[charred hearth]

thats a sub

[slow warren]

Yeah it's a sub but thats not a free pass to look like my inbred cousin

[wispy stone]

What about rex’s specie model itself? It has lips.

[charred hearth]

well, it is his inbred cousin, tarbosaurus

[slow warren]

the species model itself is...decent, i guess
the muscle distribution looks off in some places and the snout could be a bit broader

[wispy stone]

I’d say the horn crest on the head looks bit too small

[slow warren]

that, and depending on who you ask, hatchling/juvenile/adolescent could use some feathering. that kinda irks me

thats about it i have to say about it. Otherwise, its fine

[wispy stone]

I see. Well that’s very insightful

[compact leaf]

baby models not having feathers is a mechanics issue, it doesn’t really work with the way pot models and growth are coded

[slow warren]

well gee diddly whizz im a dinosaur geek not a coding geek, but thanks for the information

[wispy stone]

I agree with tarbo not having libs. But I also think it might just be subtle reference to more box office movies style of rex

[ancient crystal]

Don't almost all the offiical theropods have a lipless sub?

[small geyser]

Only the raptors and I think Alio all have lipped subs

[ancient crystal]

Stupid alio needs to get with the program

[zealous ravine]

The topic is over more or less but I just wanted to add that pterosaurs are currently thought to be most closely related to dinosaurs. the group formerly known as lagerpetidae is now considered a grade of basal species that lead to proper pterosaurs

So they likely evolved from animals like these

[charred hearth]

EORAPTOR

[zealous ravine]

Venetoraptor and Scleromochlus actually

[ancient crystal]

Were there any non-plantigrade pterosaurs, or if not when did that trait show up in their evolutionary history?

[stiff osprey]

the only one where digitigrade posture has actually held up is noripterus but no one knows why it would do that

[ancient crystal]

So when did David Peters start being, well, David Peters?

Because I know there was a time in my life where I could look up a pterosaur and not see his atrocious skeletals in the results

[hazy basalt]

there is much more wrong with the baby rex models than just lacking feathers. ||cough cough not having feathers is actually a positive and I'm leaving it at that.||

[ancient crystal]

There is nothing wrong with the baby rex models that can actually be fixed by the devs. If the baby rex had more accurate proportions, its animations would break

[hazy basalt]

You are partially correct, but it's also matter of dev time/priority because pt rex has way more accurate baby rex's than alderon rex. Not perfect for the reasons you stated but much better.

[white matrix]

its mostly a rig issue
even so that still isn't an accurate baby rex, legs and arms would be bigger

[hazy basalt]

All true, but I still think later in this games lifespan we could see some major improvements not just to baby rex but all our dinos if modders are capable of going this far with the limited tools they have.

[white matrix]

I really hope so, I want to be able to go crazy with body models for example if wanted to do feathered babies but the feathers cant be removed for adults + cause lag

[coral forge]

if it were accurate adolescent rex wouldn't just be a mini adult

[wispy stone]

Aside from body proportions. What do you guys feel about pot rex’s skull/head?

[manic grail]

its not very accurate to the jurassic park/world trex so i'd say its inaccurate to some extent

[wispy stone]

I honestly have no idea if this is sarcasm joke or not lol

[manic grail]

ofc i mean rexy and bull trex from jp3 and not the trex from the new jw movie

[wispy stone]

I don’t think jp rex skull has ever been accurate?

[manic grail]

bro u joking?

[wispy stone]

In the film’s time maybe but ehhh lol

[brave nova]

I’d say it’s alr

[wispy stone]

I think it’s head look a little odd at front, when it lowers it head a bit

[brave nova]

In what way?

[wispy stone]

The neck and upper head are similar in size. With angle, the head appears big and circular than it intended to

[fossil ingot]

Given Rex has good inividual variation in the skull
Its fine

[coral forge]

how heavy would a 8.5m A. fragilis be

[stiff osprey]

about 1.8 t

[sudden wind]

It's okay. What bothers me are the facial scales.

[ancient crystal]

It isn't.

The jurassic films have always widened the skulls of the animals, especially the carnivores, which you can clearly see on dilo and velo

[paper parcel]

Dayum

[white matrix]

@wispy stone the skull of the rex subspecies is very accurate aside from the keratin and horns
if you reference dempsey 3d rex skeletal

[tough parcel]

People will use horns instead of bosses for T. rex because it's cool and then ignore that the lacrimals/postorbits are rounded...

[ancient crystal]

I think bosses look better

[coral forge]

are the numbers here too big

I might make them like 30% smaller idk

[tough parcel]

Numbers for what

Oh I thought you meant in value, not actual size

No, I think they're good

[coral forge]

you sure? The font size rn is 100 but I feel like its a bit too clustered
I could change it down to 70/80 and see how it looks

[tough parcel]

It's not really cluttered, just kinda incoherent when it comes to how they count

Like Opis(?) is #2 and Saurolophus is #3 when it kinda feels like it should be the other way round but that's not super bad

[coral forge]

yeah I might reorder them

should I go back to front, left to right, top to bottom or a mix

[stiff osprey]

left to right starting with the big animals is my preferred method

[coral forge]

mabye top to bottom and left to right?
Like opis #1, saurolophus #2, Bagaraatan #3 ect

[coral forge]

So opis #1, nemegto #2, theri #3, saurolophus #4?

[scenic flame]

https://fixupx.com/vitaimagination/status/1715723361194856604?t=WOVBW-cUiW02SXO0RCWllw&s=19

Vitamin-Imagination (@vitaimagination)

즐거운 토요일은 최애 공룡과 함께 ~
︀︀Have a nice Saturday with your favorite dinosaur~
︀︀
︀︀#Tyrannosauru #Trex #skull #specimens #AMNH5027 #MOR008 #BHI3033 #Tristan #Tyson

**💬 5 🔁 76 ❤️ 365 👁️ 12.9K **

FixupX · Oct 21, 2023, 1:35 PM

[stiff osprey]

yes

[coral forge]

alr

like this?

[stiff osprey]

it's going to get messy after the alioramus-gallimimus row but with this chart layout i fear it was inevitable

[hardy sentinel]

Somebody add a sickle claw to this deadly predator

[coral forge]

yeah it could have been organised a bit better but it would take ages to fix now
I might make a copy of it and reorganise it tomorrow or something

[balmy oyster]

That would be overkill

[hardy sentinel]

True, we don't want this ruthless beast to look too ruthless

[ancient crystal]

Did pterosaurs have a keel?

[coral forge]

should I add names now or reorganise first

[sudden wind]

They had huge pecs but I don't think they had highly developed keel iirc

[rancid dove]

Is it accurate?

[coral forge]

allo and what

[rancid dove]

metri

[ancient crystal]

I would recolor some of the silhouettes tbh. The azdarchid kinda blends in with the darker colors behind it

[coral forge]

what colors would you recommend? I have a darker green silhouette done for paralligator on another layer but I dont really see anything else that needs a recolor

[rancid dove]

You didn't use this model?

[coral forge]

why would I use sinraptor to show metriacanthosaurus

[ancient crystal]

I'd make the azdarchid lighter and something that contrasts well with green.

Most of them seem fine but not layering two dark colors on top of each other is my only recommendation

[charred hearth]

how different would gigantosaurini and Daspletosaurini run? would one group prefer a burst of speed instead of the other one? one group has more indurance? one being able to hold its speed for a prelonged time?

[rancid dove]

we only have some fragments currently, so its closest relatives are Alpakrush and Sinraptor, right?

[charred hearth]

im gonna assume gigantosaurini didnt have to move that fast due to their prey, but still, would they be endurance runners?

[charred hearth]

4 and 3 slots?

[rancid dove]

3 slots

[charred hearth]

i forgot they made hatz a 3 slot

[fossil ingot]

Cause Look at Metri's Material

[coral forge]

shouldn't that be more than enough to know more or less what it looked like and how big it is

[balmy oyster]

It’s already using sinraptor material as reference to fill in blanks

[fossil ingot]

Using Close to Biggest Dasp and 3rd and 4th Biggest Allo is Crazy
Pitini and his comparisons smh

[coral forge]

ik, but that doesnt mean that it was the same size
oxalaia wouldn't be the same size as spino even though you'd use spino material to fill in the blanks

[fossil ingot]

Not really
Thats why Metri Uses Sinraptor to Fill the Stuff missing
Cause Sinraptor is a quite close relative

@coral forge metri is smaller than sinraptor

Tho is not THAT much smaller

[rancid dove]

metri the goat,give him new role

[fossil ingot]

Just use this and Scale it with the scale bar smh

Like here

[coral forge]

I know its the closest relative but that doesnt mean they were the same size or that you should use a sinraptor skeletal instead

[fossil ingot]

Mobi simply say "why didn't you use this model"
He never said Copy the size too

[balmy oyster]

Metri’s skeletal is good, it doesn’t need to use sinraptor to represent it

Besides, Both skeletals are made by the same guy, so I’m certain he knew what he was doing

[coral forge]

but they did copy the size which is what I'm saying

[rancid dove]

I found articles that say most specimens could have been larger or It's me who has to dream

[fossil ingot]

Dan's Metri is just a Downscaled Sinraptor

[plush fossil]

What was the first known flying animal? I'm 99% sure it was some sort of insect right?

[fossil ingot]

Not like it matters
Allo Dwarfs Both Metri and Dasp anyways smh

[balmy oyster]

more proof that metri is fine and doesn’t need to be fitted in with a proper sinraptor skeletal

[rancid dove]

metri❤️

[fossil ingot]

Allo Mogs

[rancid dove]

allo mog it's wonderful, is that Anax?

[balmy oyster]

At that size it’s going to have proportionally similar legs to torvo

[coral forge]

either anax or a very large fragilis

[rancid dove]

https://x.com/JoschuaKnuppe/status/1825933302588428297

Joschua Knüppe (@JoschuaKnuppe)

In my reconstruction I largely patched things up with Sinraptor and Yangchuanosaurus resulting in an nearly 8 m long animal. In theory it could also go up to 9 m, but these guys appear to have a rather short tail. (not all theropod postcrania are the same!)

X · Aug 20, 2024, 4:29 PM

You may have already seen it

[paper parcel]

DIICTODON, A HARDY LITTLE BURROWER.

https://tenor.com/view/diictodon-walking-with-monsters-prehistoric-paleozoic-permian-gif-12468164773011466782

[plush fossil]

Oh little baby guy

[fossil ingot]

Fragilis
Anax is slightly smaller at max size

[fossil ingot]

The One I have is I think 12m Along the Centra for Epanterias
Which is Possible tbh.
I forgot
Does your Torvo have Cartilage like the Comp I used?

[hushed fossil]

How big was truly Megalania? What are the most reasonable estimates?

[fossil ingot]

6.3m for the biggest lad and prob about 450-600kgs
To Fragmentary Anyways smh

[coral forge]

mine is 11.8 for epanterias
torvo is random's edmarka

[fossil ingot]

11.8m works fine
And Random's Edmark edit with Cartilage or just his without cartilage?

[coral forge]

idk its this one

I haven't seen one with cartilage

[fluid inlet]

Oh you silly little lad

[coral forge]

I dont see a difference other than slightly longer legs

[fossil ingot]

Yeah
Thats what Cartilage does

[coral forge]

oh

[hushed fossil]

How true is this video then?

[outer tusk]

curious why did K.M made it red?

[tough parcel]

This is to symbolize the evil that Torvosaurus has within

[outer tusk]

what if...

[fossil ingot]

I think I had Hitman do me an edit of this mf next to some

[outer tusk]

may I see it also do you have an edits of just theropod skeletals

[fossil ingot]

Tarbo and 11.9-12m Edmarka
Nobody would Guess Torvo is the Heavier one

Bro is 800kgs-1t heavier than this Sucho

Then again
That Tarbo is barely 10.9m vs Torvo's 11.9-12m lol

[fluid inlet]

Oh lad

[fossil ingot]

No idea

[fossil ingot]

Then again
Tarbo is Goated

[winter marsh]

these side views make it weird cuz yk, sucho is visibly chunkier laterally but in a front view its skinny

[outer tusk]

can I get the solo deino reference?

[fossil ingot]

I wouldn't say its "skinny"
Torvo is also like
Bulky

[winter marsh]

torvo needs a size nerf like everything else except meg and rex

[fossil ingot]

Let me see if I can find one

[fossil ingot]

Thats why Wiehen is Peak

[outer tusk]

oh I have the closed mouth verison, I didn't know there was open mouth one

[fossil ingot]

Toxic Gave me that one
Is the one used in the Wiehen Mod
And has Leg Cartilage

Basically an updated one

[outer tusk]

did he say he would rather use this one over his previous one, just curious?

[fossil ingot]

Well yeah
Its basically the same
But with Leg Cartilage

[outer tusk]

am I missing anyone?

[fossil ingot]

LOL

[ashen wedge]

Maybe the Allosaurus stuck in the Creationist Museum?

[outer tusk]

i started this about 2 1/2 years now, yeah about that

[hallow spear]

i am NOT reading allat

[outer tusk]

Yo stego get back to ug stat server, ok sir!

[jagged trellis]

me
where is my skeletal

[warped peak]

Inside of me

[jagged trellis]

may i have it

[charred hearth]

is it true isle sorna died due to the spino?

[warped peak]

No mom said it's my turn having bones :(

[jagged trellis]

why do they still ache then

[balmy oyster]

how about....

[outer tusk]

am I missing anyone ?

[balmy oyster]

that should be all of them

[outer tusk]

Fishy you got a chasmosaurus skeletal btw?

[fluid inlet]

Who wants to go with me to Utah to find more siats material , we solving this mystery

[winter marsh]

work in what way

[outer tusk]

guess just being a quetz with big ah bat wings

[winter marsh]

wasnt that just old pterosaur representations

[outer tusk]

yes

[charred hearth]

did centrosaurines come from chasmosaurines or the other way around?

[balmy oyster]

Neither, because they’re two entirely separate groups in ceratopsia

[paper parcel]

How good would ceratopsians realistically taste

[hallow spear]

Impossible to determine

[charred hearth]

so they evolved seperately to one another?

[balmy oyster]

They both have a common ancestor and are effectively sisters to one another, so not entirely that separate

But one didn’t diverge from the other, rather both diverged at a certain time

[charred hearth]

but if im correct, centrosaurines have been discovered earlier?

[balmy oyster]

The line between when the 2 diverge, cus I’m seeing Diablo all over the place (at one point I think I saw it as a chasmosaur?)

But I wouldn’t be surprised if we found centrosaurs earlier in the Campanian

[thorn grove]

I forget how late Ceratopsids were sometimes

[charred hearth]

is there any ceratopsian specimen that didnt have a skull associated with it

im trying to think about they'd make a "Default " ceratopsian head for it

[balmy oyster]

Meanwhile pachycephalosaurs existing back when carcha’s were still a thing

[sly viper]

Dinosaurs lwk probably moved

[manic grail]

but

[potent bobcat]

Does Latenivenatrix's synonymization with Stenonychosaurus mean that Steno's size range was increased?

[ashen wedge]

Alright, so I have to ask, any updates for the Nanotyrannus and Troodon species? Is it valid or invalid?

[undone rapids]

Nano being a juvi rex is the consensus atm, though there's alot of upcoming work that may suggest otherwise.

[tough parcel]

She Nano on my tyrannus til I lancensis

[ashen wedge]

If the work proves the other way, will that still be accepted?

[tough parcel]

Think about that question really carefully before anyone answers

[ashen wedge]

I have, and I still think it’s a good question

[undone rapids]

That depends of how its proven and the reliability of that Methodology

[jagged trellis]

the tyrannus will always be nano'd
but will it jane till you cope is the real question

[ashen wedge]

That is something that I agree with

[tough parcel]

"If the work proves the other way, will that still be accepted"

Unless it's the same amount of weird half-baked shodiness as Longrich's Nanotyrannus paper and it proves that NanoT is distinct, then yes, it would be accepted

If it wasn't accepted (this isn't saying don't question w/e), I would say whoever you're talking to is letting their emotions or personal investment cloud judgement

[ashen wedge]

Alright, since I am just curious if it will be accepted in the paleontology community, just like how people are struggling with the loss of the name Saurophaganax for Allosaurus Anax

[tough parcel]

That falls under the last statement I made

Big difference between "question intelligently" and "cope about your favorite dinosaur name being invalidated"

[ashen wedge]

I am more so with question of intelligently, than the cope of the name, as I’m more curious to see reactions and how the science proves Nano either being a young T-Rex or a new species

[coral forge]

how accurate is the new jwe3 deinonychus?

the wrists are pronated and the eye placement looks weird but other than that idk how to feel about it

[lavish frigate]

It’s inaccurate but it’s inaccurate in a good way

It’s like if you gave feathers to a retro deinonychus

[coral forge]

yeah
with all the hype that went into it i assumed it was getting a complete remodel not just adding feathers to the current model

[outer tusk]

The juvenile looks better

[coral forge]

the juvenile looks amazing

[zealous ravine]

It’s not really accurate but it’s an actual good retro design which is crazy to me, I love it.

I’ll definitely mod an accurate Deinon in but idk if I’ll use it that much lol

[manic grail]

The old one is so ugly in my opinion

[coral forge]

true
plus its a jurassic game what can you really expect in terms of accuracy
its kinda weird how they went paleo accurate for all the other new feathered dinos unique to jwe, but for deinon they just slapped feathers on some retro paleoart and called it a day

[zealous ravine]

I think it makes sense, they wanna keep it unique from stuff like Utahraptor, but still make it look good. And I think they did it. Sure a big part of it was adding feathers, but there are also more subtle model changes that rlly improve it. It feels like an og jp concept art design

[charred hearth]

what does that even mean...

[serene moat]

What's the largest ankylosaur? Compared to the largest nodosaur specimen?? Is there some new big nodosaur being or been dug up??

[balmy oyster]

Pretty sure a lot of people (even those in the field itself) think it’s going to be distinct. The “consensus” seems to have changed, or at least nearly completely changed.

[undone rapids]

That doesn't really matter much until said data is published. Papers will treat Nano as Juvi rex until that is done

[balmy oyster]

A paper also treated bahariasaurus and deltadromeus to be the same while ignoring the entirety of baharia’s material. It’s a paper, so it can be trusted more than proper observations?

[undone rapids]

Ankylosaurus, idk about biggest nodo but there's sometype of Big nodosaur from Maryland formation iirc

[stiff osprey]

''Priconodon'' is supposedly the largest nodosaur and rivaling or exceeding anky in size, but that's just an internet rumor, no real data behind it. I think the largest known nodosaur atp is Peloroplites

[balmy oyster]

The tibia gets you some pretty large sizes, it’s like the Gomez of ankylosaurs

[undone rapids]

There is a difference between one paper(Baharia/delta situation) and well, most papers(treating Nano as a juvi rex). So until you can point to something published as "This final thingie is why Nano is unique", its really a "its Juvi rex with current data"

[charred hearth]

what came first, nodasaurids or ankylosaurids?

[balmy oyster]

Then nanotyrannus will be a juvenile tyrannosaurus for 10 more years because papers until then will be saying this. Have fun

[stiff osprey]

that's how the field works, you can't say something is consensus without a single publication because people on the internet agree

[undone rapids]

Yup, that's how stuff works

[stiff osprey]

i mean i guess we have longrich's from last year but like. not a single good publication

[undone rapids]

Esp since those upcoming Publications can have different results from what initial abstracts mention or just never get published for whatever reason.

[stiff osprey]

allegedly table scaled this tibia and got like slightly larger than normal edmontonia size

[tough parcel]

Curious how Random takes the side of the downsize without doing it themselves...

[stiff osprey]

this is because i am the single paleoartist who has the power to decide the size of animals (reddit et al, 2025)

[charred hearth]

can you make lingwulong 10 tons

[stiff osprey]

isn't it already? it dwarfs every other dicraeosaur

[charred hearth]

i heard it was 7.8 tons

[outer tusk]

Which is still bigger than all of its relatives

[ancient crystal]

It doesn't have to be accurate, just a good design.

Apparently there are a lot of people who are mad it isn't 100% accurate and I think that's really stupid

[charred hearth]

no. amarga is 8 tons

[outer tusk]

4.4 tonnes*

[sullen cairn]

am i the only one who cant find this thing being particularly large

[balmy oyster]

Yeah

[sullen cairn]

its supposed to have a 20.6cm circumference which while a good bit larger sauropelta sure but its also already smaller than nodosaurus

at which point one also might question nodosaur tibia shaft scaling as a credible means of scaling anyways

[outer tusk]

Would love to see what paper or literature or estimate put Amargasaurus at 8 tonnes

[charred hearth]

hope

[coral forge]

What would yall put into a 5 minute college presentation about hell creek ecology

[thorn grove]

ontogenetic niche partitioning

[neat notch]

Is it allowed to send discussion-related videos here?

[wind prairie]

🥀

[stiff osprey]

5 minutes to present anything is rough

[coral forge]

I mean i was gonna mention nanotyrannus/juve rexes briefly

[stiff osprey]

i would also go with ontogenetic niche partitioning because that can be explained pretty comprehensibly in a very short amount of time

[coral forge]

I might stick mainly to the 1+ ton animals just for simplicity, especially bevause that means theres only 1 predator to talk about

[wind prairie]

the diabolical nomadic atroxicarius:

[stiff osprey]

alternatively you could talk about how t.rex differs from the average theropod in hunting style but that's not really ecology as much as pure biomechanics

[coral forge]

I mean we were told to present about anything related to biology so like

I could mabye just compare hunting methods of tyrannosaurs and allosaurs instead or smth

[little mauve]

Ecology implies some talk of trophic levels, guilds, etc. You could just lay out the ecosystem from a food web perspective, I think you're doing a disservice by excluding smaller animals particularly when we're talking about ecology

[charred hearth]

this will be a extrememly stupid question but could the apperance of tyrannosaurus have been one of the factors of the local north cretascous exinction event?

[undone rapids]

Probably not

[wind prairie]

so many cool smaller animals in hell creek
anzu (which if that one isolated bone is to go off of may have been a lot bigger), thescelosaurus, trierarchuncus, leptoceratops, avisaurus, all the little aquatic animals like habrosaurus, etc.

[little mauve]

Absolutely, loads of reptiles and amphibians. Champsosaurs, tons of turtles, invertebrates. It's so well studied we actually get a decent look at the ecosystem with all those small guys despite the preservation and collection biases for the big guys

[coral forge]

ngl hell creek might be a bit too diverse/complicated for a presentation

[little mauve]

Not if you make a food web, just break it down by trophic level with a few examples for each

[balmy oyster]

It’s perfect for a presentation, you can do all sorts of things with it

[coral forge]

In 5 minutes though?

[little mauve]

5 minutes can be really slow if the material sucks but really quick if it's good, you can cover a lot either way

[undone rapids]

Does hell creek qualify as biology?

[balmy oyster]

We have a tyrannosaur specimen from the Judith/two medicine and this was quite a while before the whole local extinction event happened, so likely not

[coral forge]

hell creek itself is geography, but the study of the behaviours of animals within is would be biology

[undone rapids]

Then it'd be best to pick one of them as the main focuz since its just 5 mins

[fossil ingot]

Amarga and 8t

[balmy oyster]

Welcome to the POT server, Matt Dempsey.

[coral forge]

There could be a little bit of leeway though
No actual time was given, I'm just going off the fact that the professor gave a 4 minute demo presentation and said ours will be slightly longer
She said it will take more or less the entire day so thats 4-5 hours for like 30 people to present

[fossil ingot]

Get Amarga Heavier than Big Allo first smh

[charred hearth]

use amargatitan scalings

[stiff osprey]

amargatitanis literally being the same size as amargasaurus

[balmy oyster]

Ironically, it’s a fraction smaller.

[fossil ingot]

Amargatitan is barely Bigger than Amarga
Amargatitanis is there too
And That Guy is either same size as Amarga or smaller

[charred hearth]

use hopes and dreams

[coral forge]

vincelestes vs one of every sauropod

[balmy oyster]

Kallamedu giant solos

[fossil ingot]

No, cause then ppl believe 8-12t Deinosuchus exists

[charred hearth]

it did at one point until it was later disproven

[fossil ingot]

It never existed
It only existed with Bad Measurements and Fadeno; Only Fadeno Scaled Deino so Big
While the Material itself never showed Deino been close to said size

Then again
Current Deino is Cooler than before

[rancid dove]

It is not 3-4 tons?

[charred hearth]

how accurate are fadeno's measurements usually?

[coral forge]

wait one of what

[fossil ingot]

Ehhh
90% if not 99% they end up oversized
Like Anky been 8-10t or Para been 12-18t
Or Funny 22t Tylo...
I think there is 2 or 3 skeletals that are fine size wise

[coral forge]

didnt fadeno do a 90t baro or smth

[charred hearth]

where is the the 90 tons stored

[fossil ingot]

Ahh yes
That too

[outer tusk]

okay can you give me what size it should be 😭

[coral forge]

and the 15.4t deino

[rancid dove]

I'm joking, you're right

[balmy oyster]

Apparently fadeno’s baro’s are all scaled decently, it’s just the giant specimens turned out to be supersaurus instead

[outer tusk]

thank you for that waste of a joke, I anti-laugh

[coral forge]

how much do they weigh as supersaurus

[balmy oyster]

Idk like around 50t

[coral forge]

damn

[fossil ingot]

Cooler Deino Cooler anyways

[outer tusk]

Am geniuely pissed how alot of "deinoS fans" are whining about this when this downsize still gives you a MASSIVE beast

[fossil ingot]

Massive Beast with a Cool ass Big Head

[paper parcel]

Nah anteosaurus would solo/jk

[coral forge]

theyre all tardigrade victims

[winter marsh]

tbf it might, if it was a lil bit bigger

[bright veldt]

tmk the porportions on this aren't exactly right

It's a bit iffy because of variation but this reconstruction from last year is likely more apt, and it puts Anteosaurus at 400 kg rather than the 1500 kilos that that reconstruction's at.

This study also gave the only proper reconstruction of an adult moschops tmk, along with size (it's about the same mass as anteo).

[lost moon]

so how long and heavy is the current reconstruction of Deinosuchus? I haven’t kept up with it but I know Sarcosuchus got a bit smaller

[undone rapids]

4.7 - 5.3 tonnes depending on which specimen you use.

[lost moon]

sorry, it’s literally a quick scroll up. thanks for humoring me. still a huge animal

[undone rapids]

Head is still big, mainly just Body/tail that got smaller

[lost moon]

yeah it looks so interesting with the new proportions

[undone rapids]

Its a bit similar to Scott Hartman's Deinosuchus from 2018, though with an even more Robust Skull

[outer tusk]

Scott Hartman's Deino looks like who of those crappy cgi crocodile movie monsters

[charred hearth]

how accurate is pots tanystropheus

[balmy oyster]

Pretty accurate, PoT uses up-to-date (at least accurate) skeletals for their models which also includes tanystropheus

[plush fossil]

Speaking of, what's the most inaccurate and accurate pot playable? Just a question that crossed my mind

[ancient crystal]

Inaccurate is thala based off size alone

[charred hearth]

whats the oldest playable in PoT? ( playable and ai )

[fossil ingot]

Skeletal wise
Prob Metri, Thala is mainly off from size alone
Metri's Model tho...

[winter marsh]

innacurate would be Achillo which is you think about it its basically Utah, but others would be Kai cuz lips and Thal cuz of size. Every post TLC playable can be considered extremely accurate

[fossil ingot]

Achillo's Model wise is Very Good, its Posture is fine Too
Its Main Issue is its size

Thala is bad in size and even skeletal based wise.
Metri size its fine but its skeletal is model is yeah...
Pachy can be bad too
Pycno is just Big Carno here

[hazy basalt]

Pachy is pretty bad.

[full lagoon]

Hating on an animal regardless of a change of our understanding means you are a fake fan

[winter marsh]

regular subspecies has a very boxy skull which resembles utah more (do we even have achillo´s skull)

[fossil ingot]

Cause Achillo has like
No Skull
Mf is just Utah but skinnier LOL

[winter marsh]

id do the same cuz utah is the goat when it isnt being used by roleplayers to do weird stuff

[fossil ingot]

We just have this from its head.
Which is why Achillo is just
Slightly Smaller and Slightly Thinnier Utah, Posture should be more upright but this works

[charred hearth]

the raptor hierchy goes
utah
achillo
dakota

right?

[outer tusk]

that's what I am saying

[fossil ingot]

If Dakoto exists.
Then prob

[ionic crescent]

thinnier?

Achillo is way bulkier than utah

[fossil ingot]

Ingame Yeah
Irl tmk no, the Achillo Material doesn't show it been Bulkier than Utah
Both are very similar in bulk anyways
Which is why they are almost if not the same size at the same length

[ionic crescent]

from the materials achillo is bulkier than utah

Achillo is wider

[fossil ingot]

Any Comparison?
Cause I have always heard otherwise
Cause tmk Achillo just uses Utah's Dorsal

[charred hearth]

like, fatter or just wider?

[fossil ingot]

Actually
Ima just ask on the Paleo Server lol

[hazy basalt]

How accurate is our Deinonychus? I can't help but feel it looks off.

[ionic crescent]

wider

[fossil ingot]

I asked in Paleo and got said Utah.
Ima just wait for Random and Stego to answer me there smh

[plush fossil]

Thanks for all the answers guys : )

[patent mist]

Campto is very off. The in game one is about half the width of actual campto and has far shorter and thinner legs than an actual campto. The skull also looks nothing like an actual campto skull. Most of the post tlc models are very accurate as others said.

[winter marsh]

PoT´s campto feels right but if you look at it its more of a short armed lurdu than an actual campto (that looked like a barrel with long legs)

[fossil ingot]

Everyone keeps telling me the same
Utah is Wider

[edgy oasis]

Is Fadeno’s Prosaurolophus skeletal reliable? (probably not but might as well ask)

[stiff osprey]

it's fine just ignore the two gray silhouettes

[edgy oasis]

Awesome

[compact leaf]

his skeletals themselves are good just some of the scaling is bad

[wanton mist]

I guess so.

[charred hearth]

did lambeosaurine come before saurolophine? did one evolve from the other?

[thorn grove]

They diverged from each other from their last common ancestor

[balmy oyster]

Well explained

[sudden wind]

Hawk tuah

[sudden wind]

No. Evolution doesn't work like that : they are sister taxa, which means that they diverged from one another from an "hypothetical last ancestor".

[fluid inlet]

https://x.com/deform2022/status/1979177357434065204?s=46

Deform 2025 (@Deform2022)

#FossilFriday A large privately owned #Spinosaurus femur in Hong Kong. It's 70 cm long and weighs 18 kilograms. Given the size compared to Fsac-kk-11888 (70cm vs 61cm), the bone likely came from an adult individual. Unfortunately, as it's in a collection, it can never be studied.

X · Oct 17, 2025, 1:27 PM

[plush fossil]

Really? That's interesting

[coral forge]

what would be a good paleontology topic to present about
Hell creek is proving to be too difficult

also how heavy are spino and giga on average

[outer tusk]

how can you determine of animals like spinosaurus and giganotosaurus who's specimens don't consist of >10 known specimens compared to the nomrla tatic to determine said average

[undone rapids]

Spino's big specimens might not even be spino so that's also a problem

[coral forge]

idk I'm just curious because if rex is the largest theropod and is 8.1t on average that means spino and giga have to be smaller but ive never seen any lower estimates for them

[undone rapids]

Giga has one good specimen and it ranges around 8.5 tonnes these days. But it could still be different once its described completely

[coral forge]

so would that not make giga the largest on average

[outer tusk]

I wouldn't suggest it HAS to be rather than it could or maybe

[undone rapids]

If one specimen is enough of an avg for ya then sure. Rex avg also depends on which rex you consider to be adults

[outer tusk]

I would highly suggest not for the so fact that it's just pointless

[undone rapids]

What what defines being an adult, weight estimates are always gonna keep changing like that

[coral forge]

8.1 is every rex between Victoria and Scotty in size

[undone rapids]

Maybe just go for different startegies carchs and tyrannos used when hunting

[undone rapids]

Tyrannos being fast long legged guys that could probably run for a while and then became bone crushers as they got bigger

[coral forge]

yeah i was gonna either do the role of allosaurus as the apex predator of north America during the jurassic or comparing hunting strategies of large theropods

I could probably do more with the latter because ✨ ontogenetic niche partitioning ✨

[undone rapids]

While carchs had huge and very specilized necks for pulling stuff iirc

[coral forge]

I might do allosaurians not just carcharodontosaurids because allosaurus is awesome and I wanna include it

[undone rapids]

Yeah there's a neck musculature study that covers tyrannosaurs, allosaurus, sinraptor and ceratosaurs which might help with that

[coral forge]

yeah, and allosaurus is probably more studied/well known than every single carcharodontosaur combined

[undone rapids]

Where allo was found to have a pretty flexible neck iirc.

[undone rapids]

It Definitely is

[coral forge]

Should I do the entire first half on tyrannosaurs then the entire second half on allosaurs or compare one aspect at a time

[rancid dove]

I don't know if this is good picture

[coral forge]

its fine

[cloud dagger]

Burgess shale formation

[outer tusk]

it's like one of the ONLY good skeletal of this taxon

[coral forge]

the more I write the more I realise I'm basically only talking about allosaurus vs mid sized tyrannosaurs and not carcharodontosaurids vs tyrannosaurids 💔

ngl this might just turn into the hunting methods of allosaurus

[coral forge]

other than usual prey, adaptations and overall hunting methods would there be anything else to compare

[undone rapids]

If you're just doing allo and Tyrannos, don't think so. you could mention that early tyrannos like the feathered Yutyrannus were probably hunting more similarly to allo than later tyrannos like rex due to their longer arms and thinner teeth

[coral forge]

I'm doing tyrannosauridae vs allosauria so my examples of mid sized tyrannosaurs are alioramus and juvenile t.rex

actually would derived carcharodontosaurs have a similar gape and neck musculature/range of motion as allosaurus just less extreme

[outer tusk]

Fyi for yutu, Sirblameson has one that has a 15% shorter arms and different skull

[undone rapids]

Oh yeah he's still updating that, still pretty big arms

[coral forge]

for such a well studied animal i cant find anything about allosaurus hunting methods that isn't hatchet bite

[undone rapids]

Don't think so, Allosaurus has a pretty long neck. Though I don't think Carch neck musculature is very well researched, but most of them seem to have some type of locking mechanism with their neck vertebrae considering Acrocanthosaurus and Taurovenator

[coral forge]

huh
do you know of any papers talking about it since I need a source for every single pixel on my screen

[undone rapids]

This one for Tyranno and Allo feeding styles and Allo neck stuff : https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.20563

This one for Tyrannovenator : https://www.researchgate.net/publication/384768109_A_new_carcharodontosaurid_specimen_sheds_light_on_the_anatomy_of_South_American_giant_predatory_dinosaurs

[coral forge]

thanks
I might also include a chart to show how tyrannosaurids were almost perfectly adapted to be able to grab the throats of their contemporary hadrosaurs

(except rex and qianzhou because they just went "fvck it we ball" and got huge)

[versed garden]

https://youtu.be/CYEBcKhZWM0?si=S5OUUrqhLVtCKAs2

[sterile trail]

It's Taurovenator, not Tyrannovenator. You almost got my hopes up for a new Carcharodontosaurid ;-;

[undone rapids]

Oh lmao

"Tyrant hunter" would be a cool name if we find some other Large theropod from a different family living with a Tyrannosauroid.

[sterile trail]

Yeah, totally

[undone rapids]

Could be something in Asia, since we find big tyrannos in Early Cretaceous like yutyrannus and Sinotyrannus, then later in time we find some type of allosauroid with big arms(Chilantaisaurus)

[coral forge]

theres only a preview for the 2nd one 🥀

[coral forge]

oh yay thank you

[outer tusk]

I actually made a spec evo albertosaurinae named tyrannovenator

[undone rapids]

Something that hunted the newly arrived Asian Tyrannos I imagine, Pretty cool

[outer tusk]

yeah it's an asian one totally not just dan folkes old gorgosaurus as reference

[paper parcel]

Before there was time, there was nothing, and before there was nothing, there was monsters.

[rich vessel]

I’m actually making a paper mache of this fella

Must say, it’s been hard tryna get their physique

[full lagoon]

Love this animal

[pallid hull]

-# help him

[green helm]

how much does rhinorex weight at max

and what is Kritosaurus weight at max

[coral forge]

3050kg for rhinorex
4450kg for kritosaurus

[green helm]

alright noted

[green helm]

do you know if there was any other hadrosaurus that got ambushed by deinosuchus or naw

[balmy oyster]

Well anything that lived with deinosuchus

[coral forge]

Gryposaurus Monumentus, Parasaurolophus Cryocristatus, Hadrosaurus Foulkii, Hadrosaurus sp., Kritosaurus sp., Gryposaurus sp., Angulomastacator, Aquillarhinus, Malefica and like 7 indeterminate hadrosaurs

[green helm]

do you think its possible that edmontosaurus wouldve meet deinosuchus? since google ai says so but its unrealible so i have to check,

[coral forge]

probably not considering E. regalis was the only edmont species that overlapped in time with deino but didnt live in the same area

Regalis was same time different place annectens was similar place different time

[green helm]

soo do you say 80/20 about that

[coral forge]

more like a 0.001/99.999 considering either the canadian/alaskan species of edmont would have to be found over 400 miles south of its current southernmost range or E. annectens would have to live 4+ million years earlier

[green helm]

well thank you for informing me

[sharp stump]

Fix

[manic grail]

Fix

[charred hearth]

fix

[ancient crystal]

xᴉℲ

[coral forge]

Fix

[stiff osprey]

I would like to formally apologize to reddit et al

I opened the post that said this and all the comments were telling OP how it was not one paleoartist and showing the real data behind the deinosuchus downsize

[balmy oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/kruithne-jim-carrey-sonic-evolution-eggman-gif-25508842

[thorn coral]

How is Megaraptor not getting that fame as like a rex by the way?I get it rex is large and everything, but Maip macrothorax(If I typed it right)Was a mega theropod!(5 metric tons atleast).

Damn my questions are killing everyone.

[fluid inlet]

Can’t wait for priconodon paper to come out and humble all the non sayers. Buds a tank, bud.

[charred hearth]

how resistant to a car crash would a ankylosaurid / nodasaurid be?

[fluid inlet]

Priconodon would survive , Anklyosaurus wouldn’t

[hallow spear]

what?

[little mauve]

Force = mass times acceleration. Cars are heavy

[jagged trellis]

( its bait)
anyways yeah waiting on a genuine prico thing that isn't tiny teeth tim

[charred hearth]

i know wombats have been known to total cars during crashes so im curious

[little mauve]

You can easily both total a car and not survive

[fluid inlet]

These little whipper snappers fear bud

[thorn coral]

Guys How much chance does a megaraptor have to survive a battle with a Rex?30%?

[balmy oyster]

Would’ve been funnier if it was the scene where Godzilla gives the “kiss of death” to the female MUTO

[stiff osprey]

100% if it runs away as soon as it sees the rex

If not it's a <2 ton animal against a >10 ton one. It's not going to survive

[balmy oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/monster-hunter-gif-20162904

[ashen wedge]

Wait who got a downsize?

[ancient crystal]

Everyone

[balmy oyster]

me in 60 years

[neat notch]

What are Maip chances?

[thorn grove]

0

[paper parcel]

Face for radio ahhh ceratopsian

[neat notch]

Our lord and savior Pickle, praised be his name 🥒

[undone rapids]

Same as megaraptor, an 8 meter animal against a 12 meter one won't go well

[neat notch]

Wasn't it a 9-10 meter animal?

[undone rapids]

Those were the initial estimates I'd guess,

[warped peak]

The 2 ton megatheropod:

[iron halo]

bahariasaurus will be our megatherapod megaraptoran (trust me bro)

[fluid inlet]

Because it’s very fairly new , T. rex wasn’t famous over night

[undone rapids]

They're also fighting spinosaurids for the top spot of "most incomplete theropod family"

[thorn grove]

at this point I don't really expect anything to ever overtake T. rex as the most famous Dinosaur

[fluid inlet]

Not in the foreseeable future that’s for sure

[undone rapids]

Its had a 120 years of fame, Only ones that come close are triceratops and stegosaurus

[compact leaf]

brontosaurus too probably, less of a household name now but it was everywhere

[undone rapids]

Feel like something like argent could prob take brontos spot

[jagged trellis]

velociraptor did actually briefly get more famous than t rex on searches
but yeah rex has been THE dinosaur for a good good while

[neat notch]

I still believe in Megalosaurus superiority
The OG shall never fall

[ancient crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-darth-maul-it-already-has-and-you-just-cant-see-it-it-already-happened-gif-16997228

[winter marsh]

for some reason acheulosaurus got in 3rd most searched I think in 2020ish

[jagged trellis]

WHAT

i gotta see this
the only way i can think of that is that friggin one company which used jp remolds

[winter marsh]

there are pictures in this channel I think

not this channel but its in modding

[jagged trellis]

i see that
but like
what source is that search engine
still achel for some reason dawg

[winter marsh]

ask @warped peak

[warped peak]

wikipedia

[jagged trellis]

a h
that
still doesn't explain why achel but thank you wes
god seriously why achel

[winter marsh]

cool

[warped peak]

This is actually a mystery across the community

IIRC it was featured on a non-dino thing

[iron halo]

just looked up achelousaurus, i’m doing my part

[charred hearth]

do we have any speed estimates on aquatic reptiles?

[charred hearth]

is brachi taller then arg?

[compact leaf]

depends on the specimen for both, but that brachi mod is subject to size changes

holotype brachi is still about the same height or a bit taller than holotype argent though

[fluid inlet]

Not every creature in game has to be max sizes for everything

[charred hearth]

im just asking

[fossil ingot]

I mean
That Brachio is Basically the size of the Recapture Creek Femur
PT Argent is the size of the Holotype, Aka only Argent
Posture also doesn't Help Argent

[scenic flame]

PT Argent is oversized (though not by a lot), meaning the brachi is at minimum the absolute maximum size

[fossil ingot]

Prob Recapture Creek Femur, which may or may not be Brachio
But 69t Brachio is funny

[fluid inlet]

So looks pretty valid to me

Neither of these sizes are crazy

[scenic flame]

they are however the maximum, if you mean the above image

[fluid inlet]

Haven’t touched mods in forever , is brachi out yet?

[fossil ingot]

Actually PT Argent is 36.6m wonder if that is the size of that "refered" thing

[fossil ingot]

Ehh Close Enough

[fossil ingot]

Nop

[fluid inlet]

It’s been in development for some time

[compact leaf]

it’s in active testing at the moment

[charred hearth]

if im correct, sauroposiden is the tallest sauropod, right?

[warped peak]

I believe Sauroposeidon is tallest in neutral posture depending on how many vertebrae it has, but Xinjiangtitan should be the tallest when neck is up?

[charred hearth]

i dont wanna sound dumb but like, whats the difference? like, their neck is fully up?

[warped peak]

Ye

Mamenchisaurs had a less upright posture for their neck, Brachiosaurs had curved vertebrae at the base IIRC yielding the classic sloped tree pose

[compact leaf]

sauroposeidon being the tallest also depends on giving it 17 cervical vertebrae, it may have only had 13 we just don’t know (cervical count is highly variable in somphospondyls)

[outer tusk]

Supersaurus

[coral forge]

diplodocus rotated 90°

[coral forge]

how agile was stegosaurus? Ik it was very slow but how quick could it turn

[little mauve]

Based on endocasts the anterior semicircular canals were very short and poorly developed indicating low vestibular sensitivity, i.e. low agility

Compare them to thescelosaurids or dryosaurids, much smaller animals we can presume were much more agile

[coral forge]

So it was essentially a living wall of death?

[little mauve]

A brick shithouse, yes

[coral forge]

Also all hadrosaurs even the likes of shant and large edmonts would be bipedal runners right?

[coral forge]

imagine being a poor allosaurus thinking youre safe going for the neck only to discover the range of motion a stegosaurus has in its tail

[little mauve]

Would be an important lesson for any Jurassic theropod

[undone rapids]

I think Stego mentioned that Stegos were better at turning in place that sauropods atleast, I don't know how they compare to ceratopsians of similar size

[coral forge]

I was thinking more in the sense of "That allosaurus is charging right at me and my head will be in its mouth within seconds. Can I pivot quick enough to not die"

[undone rapids]

That just depends on how far, fast, etc said allo is. How big the stego is etc. Dunno if there's any biomechanical studies on stego pivoting speeds

Would be cool to see how fast some of them could turn say 90 or 180 degrees

[coral forge]

Actually i wonder if stego has the least realistic kit not including vocal abilities, group buffs ect
ano might be up there too

[little mauve]

Be wary of biomechanical studies, just because you can make something move a certain way in a simulation does not mean it has any bearing on what the living animal could or would do

[coral forge]

biomechanically speaking humans can lift over 10x our body weight but that doesn't mean we can do it consistently or without nearly killing ourselves

[little mauve]

And if turning the head at a certain speed is going to automatically trigger vertigo in an animal it's not going to be using that to save its life from a predator

[coral forge]

unless you're a sauropod because argent headbutt is cool and awesome and totally realistic

[little mauve]

Sauropods actually do seem to be pretty adept at head movement neurologically speaking, which makes sense

Even stuff like brachiosaurs where you wouldn't necessarily assume a huge amount of head movement

[undone rapids]

Maybe they were picking up the local marshosaurus and throwing them into the Stars...

[charred hearth]

thoughts?

[coral forge]

notice how allosaurus jaws are suspiciously baby sauropod sized? Could this mean that allosaurus possibly preyed on young sauropods meaning that contrary to popular belief, the morrison might have had a lot of sauropods?

[outer tusk]

what is this sky is blue ah question

[hallow spear]

Wdym? Stegosaurus has been found In many bonebeds likely indicating group activity as well as massive trackways indicating travel in large groups

I’m not sure what you mean tbh

[stiff osprey]

What trackways?

[coral forge]

high mobility with plates providing a huge amount of armor

[stiff osprey]

I know of up to like 5-6 individuals together which is the same as Triceratops, one of the least social ceratopsids

[charred hearth]

the reason we only find 6 ceratopsians together i sbecause 3 +3 = 6 . theres 3 pairs so you get 666 and the reason they do this is because their satanic and have sent jack horner a vision of scavenging trex to curse us all

[winter marsh]

Their horns, they are not for display, nor weapons, but instead the manisfestation of their evil and cruelty cased inside a hard, but hollow shell

[charred hearth]

fact

[queen oar]

@hallow spear What do you think of Loricatosaurus priscus?

[hallow spear]

What do i think of it? Its a fairly understudied genus, Between it and lexovisaurus theres a vastly lacking data of Middle jurassic european stegosaurs

[queen oar]

cool

[charred hearth]

is there any australian / Antarctic stegosaurs?

[hallow spear]

Theres no Antarctic stegosaurs but there are stegosaur trackways reported from some sites in Australia

[charred hearth]

is the only clade who didnt make it to australia are tyrannosaurids?

[queen oar]

Do we have Stegosaurs in Thailand?

[hallow spear]

Yes, from the Phu Kradung formation

[ashen wedge]

Do we have megaraptors in Antarctica?

[hallow spear]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1daH6tAugxhuvwSf4JBWcpGbLGGfAW_ugzN0O68kiqDs/edit?usp=sharing

[undone rapids]

Most stuff didn't make it there iirc. There's just Megaraptors and Carchs found there so far

[queen oar]

me when...

[hallow spear]

yep, luckily stegosaurs have diagnostic dorsal vertabrae so its fine

[queen oar]

What do you think it is?

[hallow spear]

What dO yoU mean? its a stegosaur

[queen oar]

Yes, but what type of Stegosaur?

[little mauve]

We have them from southern south america and australia, they were likely in Antarctica as well. Especially because that whole continental area is the same pollen province which correlates to dinosaur provincialism in the maastrichtian

[hallow spear]

Oh its a derived stegosaur

[ashen wedge]

Alright, so…. What class of family do the megaraptors belong too?

[hallow spear]

Something more derived than a Stegosaurid, Perhaps something at the base of Stegosaurinae

[charred hearth]

what do y'all consider the largest stegosaurid, dace or stego?

[queen oar]

damn, but thanks chief

[hallow spear]

With reliable remains, probably dacentrurus. But in general, Stegosaurus, uNTIL ONE OF THE LARGER STEGOSAURus IS DESCRIBED THAT IS

[winter marsh]

They belong in basal tyrannosauroidea I think, idk really

[little mauve]

Coelurosauria near tyrannosauroidea or possibly in it

[winter marsh]

Megaraptora is like the platypus of dinosaurs cuz next think we know is that they are descendants of Silesaurus and are long relatives of all ornithischia

[charred hearth]

what formation has the most playables in PoT? i believe its either hell creek, morrison or dinosaur park formation, right? or morrison but spain

[winter marsh]

Base game only has Rex as a hell creek dino I think. So you can rule that one out

[charred hearth]

pachy: 😢

[queen oar]

Can I ask something?

[winter marsh]

2 is the same quantity as that formation where sucho and sarco were found so yeah (screw pachy)

[hallow spear]

Sure

[charred hearth]

morrison: stegosaurus, allosaurus, camptosaurus, ceratosaurus

dinosaur park formation: lambeosaurus, styracosaurus, daspletosaurus

morrison but spain: stegosaurus, allosaurus, ceratosaurus, miragaia

[winter marsh]

Rhamphy?

[charred hearth]

what abt rhampy?

[winter marsh]

Isnt rhamphy from morrison? Or is it dimorphodon? Its one of those 2

[charred hearth]

neither of those are from the morrison

[winter marsh]

Reason why they are all dead... rhamphy couldve saved them

[queen oar]

I've noticed that Stegosaurus spp. is still usually depicted with a relatively short neck, but I thought that look changed with the description of Sophie The Stegosaurus? Unless I'm not informed well enough...

[plush fossil]

whats the earliest known flying animal?

[winter marsh]

https://tenor.com/view/patrik-bottle-hat-gif-26508133

[ashen wedge]

Bugs/Insects

[plush fossil]

i know but which specific ones?

if they're known that is

[ashen wedge]

I forget the names since prehistoric bugs/insects give me the fear response

[thorn coral]

Well most megaraptors were about that size but maip macrothorax was 5 metric tons so it WAS a megatheropod.

[warped peak]

(Maip is 2.2 tons when scaled properly)

Nothing has ever yielded 5 ton Maip except a single estimate in a paper without any methodologies

[thorn coral]

Sorry then I found wrong source

[little mauve]

Insect wings probably evolved in the devonian but there's a fossil gap at the early carboniferous that makes it hard to ID the first winged or flying forms. Stem-dictyopterans are some of the oldest known with wings.

[hallow spear]

Stegosaurus spp. Being what? And yes Sophie did show that Stegosaurus has a Cervical-Dorsal count of 13/14 respectively

[plush fossil]

alright thanks : )

[queen oar]

the genus itself, not specifying any particular species

[hallow spear]

I mean Stegosaurus spp. just means all Stegosaurus specimens not attributed to a specific species

[queen oar]

yeah

[white matrix]

but 756 mm tibia

[hallow spear]

Said tibia is from the Composite/chimeric specimen YPM 1853, which also varies in tibia length widely, I’ve seen it figured as 710mm, 690mm etc

[queen oar]

is there any measurements of it? Or is that also inconsistent?

[hallow spear]

That is the measurement, mentioned above. They are heavily inconsistent

[queen oar]

well, that doesn't help

[white matrix]

I think its fair thats what theyre referring to when they say 700 max

[hallow spear]

No, that’s the YPM 1388 accession number specimen

[white matrix]

so 845 mm tibia is 700 max

[hallow spear]

YPM 1853 has an accession number of 1271, like I mentioned in the message you responded to. Said measurements of the tibia is variable from 690mm to 756mm

And no, what they are saying is that the largest tibia they could find with that accession number is 700mm

[white matrix]

👍

we must fly stego to the ypm so they can measure everything,
everyone donate $1

[hallow spear]

Lmao

[white matrix]

@hallow spear also did you see the picture of Sophie i sent while it was still in dirt/rock? you can make out the pelvic bones pretty well

[hallow spear]

I don’t remember it, but that doesn’t really matter either since Sophie’s scan and quarry map are available

[white matrix]

also I have some concerns with the way you oriented the spikes of stegosaurus

[hallow spear]

The spikes should be oriented like this

[white matrix]

you said theyre sweeped towards the ends but the base of many spikes ive seen in photos dont really support that
it looks to be different for every individual

[hallow spear]

There’s only 2 articulated stegosaurus specimens with a relatively complete articulation, and that is what it is based on. As well as a few other non stegosaurus stegosaurs

[white matrix]

yes but you can still tell how they would have sat on the tail by looking at the base just how you can tell how the plates would sit on the spine

[hallow spear]

Why are you using a random specimen when actual stegosaurus specimens have articulated individuals

[white matrix]

to show it isnt the same for all of them

[hallow spear]

It would be the same for all within the same species + the base is prone to deformation
https://x.com/Brontops_/status/1855711461521133783

Brontops (@Brontops_)

Kentrosaurus distal spines from Mallison 2011, Dacentrurine indet. from Company et al 2010, ?Chungkingosaurus from Ford, Stegosaurus from Galton and Carpenter 2016

X · Nov 10, 2024, 8:37 PM

[white matrix]

that one isnt angled like these are (the image I posted)

[hallow spear]

Spike orientation is variably ontogenically

[white matrix]

looking at the base of this one it seems to be angled a lot

these are also angled differently

[queen oar]

what if it's... Subjective? Like, each individual could be different?

[hallow spear]

very unlikely, its plausible for them to differ from individual use but position wise, they should be similar / the sam,e

[white matrix]

the shorter looking one looks to angle backwards but then shoot outwards

[queen oar]

I mean, I ask it because Dinosaurs can be pretty inconsistent when it comes to each individual

[white matrix]

I dont remember if the tail spikes on apex are real but the ones closer to the base of the tail go outwards at a 75 degree angle unlike this image #paleontology message

[hallow spear]

thats just mounting difference

[white matrix]

oh nice they are

[white matrix]

I accounted for that, especiallybecause half of the plates aren't mounted correctly, look at the base of the spikes

[plush fossil]

If a hatzegopteryx were to land on my roof, would my roof break?

[hallow spear]

i have looked at them from the scan i have

the spikes are mounted horizontally because its the easiest place to put them on the tail, not because its correct. you can see, especially on this pic that they should be more vertical

[white matrix]

im not talking about the way the spikes are mounted dude, im talking about the base of the spikes

[white matrix]

on the sketchfab scan they look mounted incorrectly too and in this picture, the angle they would've been in life would be like 70-60 degrees this image doesn't fit with bases of the spikes on apex unless there was some built up connective tissue on the tail
the mount has them at an 80 degree angle which i dont agree with

[charred hearth]

is that turtle okay? 🙁

[queen oar]

yeah, they turtling

[ancient crystal]

Sometimes you hook turtles, not really much you can do

The photo looks like it was taken while someone was trying to take the hook out, you can see the line is still taunt, so its doing better than a lot of turtles that get hooked

[lofty creek]

yes
a very incomplete maxilla
belongs to some 7-meter-long individual

[outer tusk]

trying to remember how accurate is this chart

[coral forge]

150 newtons for a non azdarchid pterosaur is diabolical

[hallow spear]

Azcarchids dont really have high biteforces

[coral forge]

really? I would have expected the sheer size and weight of the beaks to just naturally give them strong bites

[hardy sentinel]

Most of their beaks are empty space so they could still be big but take off

Azhdarkids didn't hunt large prey, they were small game hunters that were just really large

[ancient crystal]

Giant heads on little bodies

[charred hearth]

https://x.com/CorporalRex/status/1979724363718160464 thoughts?

Colonel Hammer🦍🦖 (@CorporalRex)

Wonder what Prehistoric California would've looked like as an island starting from the early Cretaceous to present day. Whether it would be an island of dwarfs half the size of those on the mainland or a completely different ecosystem. Art by @JoschuaKnuppe

X · Oct 19, 2025, 1:40 AM

[fluid inlet]

No thoughts

[balmy oyster]

Why did California get separa—why am I asking this. It’s very clear why.

[fluid inlet]

Thoughts on why it’s clear ?

[balmy oyster]

Cus California is midddddd

[queen oar]

true

[balmy oyster]

Jokes aside this would be a neat spec evo project to do, both with animal & plant life and how humans interacted with it being isolated from the mainland

[fluid inlet]

So many Cali people came to Texas because everything is overly expensive in Cali

[queen oar]

california had mammoths... right?

[fluid inlet]

No only homeless

[jagged trellis]

yes
and the homeless

[queen oar]

Mammuthus columbi?

[little mauve]

Los Angeles had mammoths, go to The La Brea Tar Pits they're awesome

[jagged trellis]

p sure cali had those ja

[fluid inlet]

Mammuthus homeleśś

[charred hearth]

did any dinosaur that lived in australia experince island dwarfism / gigantism, if not , why?

[little mauve]

Columbi and pacificus are found at La Brea

[queen oar]

pacificus? isn't that Mammut?

[little mauve]

Oh yeah my mistake

[queen oar]

What do y'all think of Deinotherium bozasi ?

[warped peak]

These are animals with similar bite forces (not the human)

[stiff osprey]

arguably more funny is that the human's bite force mogs them both

[winter marsh]

I wonder if pterosaurs that had weak bite forces would just peck stuff instead of biting cuz yk, pecking is more potent than biting (in most cases)

[jagged trellis]

i still need to find that az pterosaur punching study

[paper parcel]

the punching study???

[jagged trellis]

i swear there was one but i genuinely have spent months looking for it to no avail and it annoys me

[paper parcel]

That cannot be real bro, pterosaurs had hollow bones like birds and their main method of attack was their beaks, yeah some modern birds do but, pterosaurs had membrane wings

[outer tusk]

Funnily enough I tried referencing your comment earlier today because someone said that thalassodremus would've bene a grounded flier that hunted prey with it's strong bite force

[jagged trellis]

it was( and also there is a whole thing on az pterosaurs needing strong limbs regardless to schmove)

[stiff osprey]

pterosaur arms necessarily would have been extremely strong because they used them to catapult themselves into the air

[paper parcel]

Either way, unless they were like, big enough to use their weight to push things, it would probably not be worth it, plus their wings are more fragile then that of birds since they use feathers.

[stiff osprey]

which isn't to say they necessarily punched things, the motion of taking flight and the motion of punching are different

[outer tusk]

so would it be smart to say thalss could crush shells?

[jagged trellis]

this is correct
just there literally was a test done on it
and i still need to find it
why is it nowhere

[paper parcel]

I mean, they could slap smaller pterosaurs or dinos but they can't really do much outside of it, its why the largest ones, the azdarchids had massive beaks. and yeah even if they could damage things with their wings they could still damage them on accident if something goes wrong, like if it gets badly damage from getting clawed at or bitten.

Just not optimal

[outer tusk]

would thalass actually be one of the only outliners to do this?

[stiff osprey]

azhdarchids are pterodactyloids
so every azhdarchid is a pterodactyloid with an azhdarchid body plan

[outer tusk]

okay am stumped just a little is it fair to call Thalassodroemus a "azhdarchid" or a "azhdarchiod"

[charred hearth]

thoughts? https://x.com/_themingau/status/1979676231013740768

Mingau 🦃 (@_themingau)

Some birds have claws adapted and modified to "comb" their feathers (pectinate claw), this helps them get rid of ectoparasites.

Here I decided to use my creativity and imagine a therizinosaur with something similar in the claws of its hands

X · Oct 18, 2025, 10:29 PM

[warped peak]

Not unreasonable IMO

[winter marsh]

why not? Half the paleocommunity is convinced it would get pulverized if used as a beating stick anyways

[queen oar]

what if it was used to pierce things? Like a rapier

[manic grail]

their claws barely survive contact with air so if they even just slightly touched another dinosaur they would get pulverized immediately

[queen oar]

Maybe...

[little mauve]

Qin et al 2023 specifically looks at piercing in addition to hook-and-pull and digging related stresses and found them to be unsuitable for all three. They're also not shaped like a rapier at all so I'm not sure why they would behave that way

[winter marsh]

so basically its an atomic bomb

[little mauve]

Yes, mostly symbolic

[bright veldt]

It's a bit of a misunderstanding.

Ahzdarchids, tapejarids, and thalassodromids are all families under the clade azhdarchoidea. They're each other's closest relatives. They all had greater ground capabilities than most other pterosaurs. Thalasso is less special in THAT regard and more is the other major pterosaur clade doing the ground hunting thing.

[outer tusk]

fr like this one dude was just getting on my NERVES with calling Thalass a azhdarchid when it's thalassodromid azhdarchoid

[fluid inlet]

I’ve seen some birds do that , gruesome stuff.

[charred hearth]

would the animals of gondwa experince island dwarfism or is it large enough for let says, bars to have a stable population there

[charred hearth]

thoughts on female sinoceratops in jwe3?

[queen oar]

I think this is the second time this image has made an appearance today, right? ( Nope, I'm stupid )

[jagged trellis]

how did they make sino look worse
H O W

[queen oar]

@hallow spear Don't know if it's appropriate to ask this here, but do you happen to have a Jiangjunosaurus skeletal diagram?
I remember seeing one a year ago, but can't seem to find it for... whatever reason

[hallow spear]

There’s not a good one

[queen oar]

...can I see it?

[hallow spear]

It’s literally just a Tuojiangosaurus Kentro hybrid, when Jiangjunos phylogenetic position is a basal Stegosaurine

[queen oar]

can work with that, no biggy, frankly

[hallow spear]

Never mind it turns out the photo was removed, lol this is what it’s known from tho

[queen oar]

bruh...

[full lagoon]

It's basically the same thing with a less pronounced frill, right?

[full lagoon]

So you are telling me that it could barely even rake at things with it's claws?

[full lagoon]

Probably not because they are estimated to weigh like 300kg max (661 pounds or so)

[plush fossil]

alright cool thanks, i'll make it nice and cosy for it then

[jagged trellis]

i mean depending on roof and if it tried it could get through some but like
just landing
no yeah

[queen oar]

that's fat

[full lagoon]

Not really for an animal more comparable in dimension to a giraffe

(which can weigh well over a ton)

[queen oar]

I mean... I'm just asking out of curiosity at this point, but wouldn't that interfere with it's flight capabilities?

[plush fossil]

what if 3 hatzes were on my roof though? would it break then?
4, even?

[full lagoon]

300 kg is around the maximum estimated weight and that's still really light for an animal of that size, only around three (large) adult men or less.

It would most likely still be able to fly but it would obviously take more effort

[queen oar]

i mean... Yeah? Yes, it is light for a animal of that size, but... Would it be that simple to make 300 kg fly?

[outer tusk]

Didn't dan folkes did a skeletal on it?

[full lagoon]

It honestly depends on how it would have been taking off and what type of musculature it had. Though the general consensus is that they could probably fly.

[little mauve]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-023-04552-4 you can read the paper yourself, it's open access

[queen oar]

Yeah, Hatzegopteryx is still very fragmentary, right? But like, even then... Isn't 300 kg a bit much for a animal that is also meant to fly?

[full lagoon]

Why would they have had developed wings otherwise? To get in the way?

[queen oar]

I don't think that has anything to do with what I asked, but fair... i guess ?

[ancient crystal]

I mean, tbf, assuming the large azdarchids were flightless and I'm not saying they were, they'd still have wings

[full lagoon]

Of course, but probably not well developed.

[ancient crystal]

Well, obviously, the large azdarchids, incapable of powered flight, had well developed wings in order to "fly underwater" as modern penguins do

[severe yew]

The bony plates of stegosaurus served as offensive weapons; they could cut open other carnivors with the razor sharp plates.

While the primary function of Stegosaurus plates is still debated, they were likely covered in a layer of keratin (the same material as fingernails and rhino horns) which would have given them sharp, cutting edges. This supports the idea that they might have offered some form of offense/ defense.

[full lagoon]

Note that the pterosaurs are generally thought to have had take offs that could have vaulted them pretty high into the air to begin with. (I'm sure an elevated area would work too) most experts believe that they could fly so idk what to say otherwise.

[hallow spear]

Yes he removed it

[ancient crystal]

I don't think there's a single pterosaur expert that actually thinks the large azdarchids were flightless

[hallow spear]

Indeed they are sharp

[severe yew]

[hallow spear]

The material is also abrasive, and also (obviously) shields the spine, while also allowing for extra soft tissue on the body to anchor the plates

[fluid inlet]

https://x.com/tm9380/status/1979924231342133621?s=46

Taylor McCoy 🦖 (@TM9380)

Just finished a PoT run with @Antrodemus. Ran Tyrannotitan, one of the largest known theropods. Based on the two(both incomplete) specimens, we get a rough estimate around 12 meters long and 7 tons in weight. Just absolutely enormous animals…

X · Oct 19, 2025, 2:54 PM

[queen oar]

I'm gonna assume you are confused. But, I would like to simplify it to you:

300 kg isn't something easy to throw it into the air, neither is it easy to make those 300 kg stable in the air. For the sake of comparison: the P-51 Mustang, approximately weighs from 3.3 tons minimally, to approximately 5.5 tons max ( From whatever source I found ). In order to make something that could be 15x more heavier than, allegedly, a Hatzegopteryx weighs, fly. You need to make very simple questions:

-How heavy is the airframe?
-How powerful it's engine?
-Can it retain it's energy in the air?

Now, it's ridiculous for me to use a aircraft in the comparison to a pterosaur, but the thing is... Similar principles also exists for the Pterosaur. It just doesn't get the benefit of having an engine ( and propeller ), and has a lot more struggle involved, since it's using it's own body to fly ( Special adaptations from the skeleton, and conjunctive tissues )

Again, I apologize? Since, I can only believe that maybe I haven't emphasized my point better, but it wasn't about " Could Hatzegopteryx fly? ", and more so, my point was " 300 kg is too much ".

[full lagoon]

To be fair, that is the higher end of the estimates. Even still though I wouldn't doubt them being able to fly.

[last adder]

The general weight estimates for the animal are around 200-300 kg, but you can believe whatever you think is the most logical obviously.

How heavy do you think an animal like that would be?

[full lagoon]

It's also important to note that these animals wouldn't have been constantly flapping once in the air, they most likely relied on soaring with their large wings. Similar to how the in game version behaves.

[last adder]

It's thought that Hatzegopteryx was even more ground based than even other Azhdarchids anyways.

Some believe that giant pterosaurs would've partially relied on air currents for decently long flights as well.

[little mauve]

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0013982 is the big could azdarchids actually fly paper by Witton and Habib, might be helpful for this discussion. They take 200-250kg to be the absolute upper limit

[tough parcel]

With a skull wider than T.rex, the Hatzegopteryx was an apex predator of the inland seas

[full lagoon]

Did you mean longer?

[queen oar]

Oh no, I totally agree with your two points here. But, I think, especially in your second message, the thing is that... Yes, pterosaur don't constantly flaps, that's one of their unique things. But, the thing is that, if it weighs something like that, the weight would probably create too much drag to the animal in the air, meaning that sorta of weight would only make it waste more energy

It's sorta of similar to that principle I spoke " Can it retain it's energy in the air? ", the point being that it doesn't have too much drastic loss of energy ( and speed ), and does not require to push it's limits, constantly, to remain stable in the air. Since.... If you loose too much of your energy in the air.... Well, that means you will fall straight to the ground.

[last adder]

Aerodynamics:

[queen oar]

Yes, we are also counting that. It's like... Hold on, let me remember the name of the thing real quick...

[full lagoon]

Higher weight in the right places very well could have facilitated some forms of soaring, as the recent posted article suggests.

[full lagoon]

^

[little mauve]

A plane is a poor comparison because you're constantly burning fuel to overtake the drag, that would be the equivalent of the pterosaur flapping constantly throughout flight but we know they weren't doing that

[queen oar]

So, like a Kite for example, another ridiculous non-living organism example... How it remains in the air: it's purely based on the wind. It's aerodynamic, but because it doesn't have any source of energy it can produce, neither a way to output this energy. It can be aerodynamic ( I'm sorry for anyone that had a kite that didn't fly... ), so the only energy it can produce to remain on the air... It's purely dependent on how the wind interacts with it

Pterosaurs work... But also don't work like that. They don't work like that, because they have a source of energy, and a way to output that energy when they catapult themselves into the air... But they also work like that, because they don't constantly flap their wings in the air, meaning that their energy in the air... It's purely dependent on how the wind interacts with their own body

I mean, I think you guys get what I mean, I'm just oversimplifying everything, because I frankly have no knowledge of any more complex term or elaboration I could use here, but the point is...

Being dependent on how yourself interacts with the Air, means you cannot take risks where your physic would interact with the air in a negative way. So, for example, being heavy... Has a lot of negative interactions with the air. There's also other things like " You can't be too wide ", " You can't have heavy wings ", etc. But since Hatzegopteryx is pretty fragmentary, and it's appearance would be pretty subjective... I think those things are irrelevant... For now.

[full lagoon]

It's honestly awesome that the PoT hatze represents this flying style as well. Same with the fairly realistic differences between the smaller ones as well.

[last adder]

Hatzegopteryx and Azhdarchids in general are SO much lighter than others animals of a similar height and proportions would be to the point of near absurdity, like a giraffe weighs 5 to 6 times as much as even the largest ones.

[little mauve]

There are tradeoffs in evolution though right and size can be a huge advantage in the right environment, so maximizing size while retaining flight ability is one interpretation of the azdarchid body plan. They seem overengineered for flight in many aspects of their anatomy if they weren't doing it but they likely were hitting some biological limits to what's possible wrt flight and takeoff especially

[last adder]

They aren't heavy for an animal of their size by any means, and basically any dinosaur that isn't several times shorter outweighs them drastically.

[full lagoon]

This includes insight into the arm bones and muscle attachments being of similar builds to smaller species. Which wouldn't make much sense if they couldn't fly.

[full lagoon]

Similar studies suggest strong bones that would have been well suited to high stresses involved during flight. Which could be a waste of energy developing otherwise.

[queen oar]

No denial on that. I'm less objecting those facts... And more so, estimates that would require a lot more explanation on the matter of " How do you make that amount of weight fly? "

I mean you can overengineer something heavy to fly... It would however also come into question if the feats associated with that extra development wouldn't enhance the problem even further...

Muscles and bones don't exactly come for free... They also add weight to yourself ( I would've done another Aircraft example, explaining how, you can't solve the problem of a heavy airframe by... Example: Putting a heavier engine. Like... You know? That would be pretty counterproductive! lol )

Short explanation: In the matter of flight, problems can't exactly be solved by hitting your head against the wall constantly, at some point you need to go around that wall.

[little mauve]

Pneumatization is how pterosaurs go around that wall

[full lagoon]

May I also ask, why would their morphology so heavily suggest flight if it wasn't possible?

If they couldn't fly it literally wouldn't be feasible in a physical or evolutionary fashion to retain such features.

[queen oar]

Yes, but it's also like... There's so much you can make your bones hollow...

If for example, your conjunctive tissues are creating all of that 200-300 kg associated with yourself. Well, that's again... Counterproductive.

It's kinda like... Sorry guys, but I feel need to at least poke fun at it...

" See? I have no weight dragging me down now! "

300 kg of conjunctive tissues

It's kinda like... Solving a problem in one area. But... Not the whole problem

[little mauve]

Evolutionary tradeoffs like I said, youre thinking too much in terms of machines

[last adder]

Not only that, it's incredibly likely if not certain that pterosaurs had air sacks like other archosaurs to further lighten their bodies and make respiration and therefore energy management while in the air incredibly efficient.

[queen oar]

Okay, but given the fact that I've strict myself to using non-organisms that are designed to fly... Don't you think they are also restricted by similar rules?

And like, I get it, right? Because I even said earlier that for example, a Hatzegopteryx wouldn't get the benefit of having an engine. I'm aware of that, my comparisons have been mostly focusing on the fact that... They have to obey similar rules.

[full lagoon]

In flying animals a lot more is going on than just static weight lying around. Flight styles and mechanics associated with pterosaur flight offset these "drawbacks" and could even be advantageous to their way of flying.

[thorn grove]

I know that mechanically they're a rather poor analogy, but there are aircraft that outweigh hatz by orders of magnitude

you can make something that big fly

[last adder]

It's clear you don't know how anatomy, animal flight, or pterosaurs work, and you repeating essentially the same thing in every one of your long messages isn't proving any points.

Not trying to be rude, it just needs to be said at this point.

[full lagoon]

I'm honestly baffled that this debate has been going on for this long.

[thorn grove]

If increasing muscle results in a proportionately greater gain in lifting capacity than the gain in mass (increases the thrust:weight ratio, essentially) then it would be worth it, mechanically speaking

[full lagoon]

^^^

[little mauve]

You're looking at it like we're designing a creature (or machine) from scratch to overcome an engineering problem, i.e. how do we make a 250kg object fly. We're not doing that. The creature exists, we have its bones and morphological analysis that suggests it was adapted for the stresses and loads associated with takeoff, flapping, and gliding. We are interpreting evidence that exists, not inventing something from nothing.

[queen oar]

true, i agree with that possibility.

[little mauve]

Its weight undoubtedly made it a less efficient flier, I agree that is a universal physical limit with flight, but that was a tradeoff because it was an organism

[last adder]

I don't think it's very smart to keep going on about something you don't have a lot of knowledge on, especially if it just leads to a repetitive feedback loop in this chat.

[queen oar]

So... Do you agree it's dead? Because if you do, then you also would had to agree that we don't have azhdarchids flying out there... Technically, we become responsible on finding " How it would fly? "

And I agree, initially, but my point wasn't like trying to emphasize designing a living organism from scratch... And more emphasizing on the question, with the addition of " How do you make something heavy like that fly? "

I mean, I deeply apologize if I gave you that idea... But it wasn't my point. And frankly, I feel misrepresented here.

[last adder]

https://tenor.com/view/looney-tunes-crazy-confusion-confused-unbelievable-gif-16717919

[little mauve]

I linked you the research, I can recommend more if you'd like. That question of how could it fly is well studied. I'd recommend the book Pterosaurs: Natural History, Evolution, Anatomy by Witton for a deep dive on the subject

[thorn grove]

Looking at it from a purely mechanical perspective, however, flight is achieved when lift exceeds the gravitational force downwards (resulting in a net upward force). Azhdarchids are hardly my area of expertise but tmk mechanical study based on reconstructions of their wing area, flight muscles, and overall mass estimates indicate that they were in fact capable of generating the required amount of lift.

I'm sorry but simply saying "but it's really heavy" over and over doesn't contribute anything unless you back that up with actual quantitative analysis.

[charred hearth]

what would've been the largest dinosaur that would be able to jump?

[full lagoon]

That's an interesting question

[rancid dove]

Hello, I have a question about the Metriacanthosaurus, does it occupy the same niche as Sinraptor?

[charred hearth]

https://tenor.com/view/sauropod-allosaurus-running-jumping-animal-gif-17282623

[last adder]

Isn't Metriacanthosaurus somewhat fragmentary/doesn't have some important elements known?

[stiff osprey]

nonetheless, it probably did occupy the same niche as Sinraptor, since they are closely related animals of the same size

[jagged trellis]

how are we responsible for pushing the animal thats within the biological possibility of flying
who also have an obscene amount of adaptations to fly
would fly
its not saying: what if t rex flew, build sky rex guys
more: man this thing that has every single thing to fly, would fly
@charred hearth iirc the living max for being able to jump is like 4 tons for the amazing 1 inch vertical

[charred hearth]

we should start with the most likely, it would be a large megaraptoran right?

[full lagoon]

If this weight range is true, it's possible that small allosaurs might have been able to jump if properly equipped.

[last adder]

There are some quite large (multi ton I believe) animals alive today that can jump surprisingly well for their size, but yeah, I thinking anything above four tons is probably a bit of a stretch..?

[jagged trellis]

i wouldn't be shocked
ofc bipeds have way way more to figure out for jumping power
but like
i don't think its too crazy to say a 1 ton theropod could get great air time and abit bigger ones SOME
real question is could pachyrhinos get the 2 inches of fame

[full lagoon]

Lol imagine

[jagged trellis]

one day they'll hit 3
they got plenty of time

[charred hearth]

would a ceratopsians mass of gravity even allow them to jump

is it center or mass

[full lagoon]

If at all, not well, given they are front heavy.

[last adder]

Apparently Giant Elands, which approach or exceed a ton in weight, have been recorded jumping nearly or over eight feet, and quite often jump fences.

[charred hearth]

i wonder if any ornithapods would be able to jump well

[full lagoon]

Ornithopods are a massive group so I wouldn't doubt it at all, especially ones with lighter frames and strong hind limbs.

[charred hearth]

https://x.com/LiterallyMiguel/status/1979631509452828979/photo/1 how would y'all rate this alamo reconstruction?

Literally Miguel 🇻🇪💥🔫 (@LiterallyMiguel)

Alamosaurus

X · Oct 18, 2025, 7:31 PM

[full lagoon]

We don't really have that much of Alamo iirc but it looks really nice to me.

[thorn grove]

smaller ones yea

[charred hearth]

still crazy that one of alamo's closest relatives is salta

[full lagoon]

Titanosaurs were an incredibly diverse group of sauropods, coming in lots of sizes.

[charred hearth]

saltasauridae falls under titanosaurs?

[thorn grove]

ranging from Magy to Arg is a crazy size range lol

[full lagoon]

Yeah, it really is. Titanosaurs were such awesome animals imo.

[charred hearth]

and yet titanosaur isnt even a real dinosaur

[full lagoon]

There is a species known as titanosaurs, though it's not the best known. (Potentially dubious iirc)

[charred hearth]

exactly

[thorn grove]

Titanosaurs are my favorite Sauropods but I'm just a Late Cretaceous ecology enjoyer

[charred hearth]

what sauropod group was the main one during the early cretascous before the titanosaurs took over for late?

[full lagoon]

There were a few macronians like sauroposideon and astrodon, but I honestly don't know of much more.

[last adder]

Dicraeosaurids?

[full lagoon]

Dicraeosaurs also were pretty late surviving in some places though too

[compact leaf]

dicraeosaurids were somewhat common in south america, rebbachisaurids and brachiosaurids were very common, and a few groups of somphospondyls were pretty widespread

[thorn grove]

Titanosaurs already existed during the Early Cretaceous but were less dominant than by the Late Cretaceous

Although some of the smaller Sauropods were replaced by Hadrosaurs and other Ornithischians rather than Titanosaurs

[balmy oyster]

Rebbachisaurs. At least in South America, things dominated the continent.

[last adder]

I believe they were prominent during the early Cretaceous but I could very well be wrong.

[charred hearth]

what other sauropod groups were around during the late cretascous? i dont remember

[compact leaf]

titanosaurs were doing well in the early cretaceous in SA but only radiated once everything else disappeared, africa too

[balmy oyster]

Ig it also depends on what you count as “early Cretaceous” since some of the formations with a ton of rebbachisaurs are around 100 - 95, which some people can possibly consider to be leaning towards late

[charred hearth]

#makeAMidcretascous

[balmy oyster]

Would be neat to have a official mid Cretaceous

[compact leaf]

brachiosaurs were basically everywhere with multiple ghost lineages though

[charred hearth]

did diplodocids make it the late cretascous? i dont remember

[thorn grove]

tbf the middle of the Cretaceous is 105.5 ma so 100-95 is just in the second half

[balmy oyster]

Nope, the last were rebbachisaurs and those sadly died out alongside carcha’s and spino’s

[charred hearth]

so only titanosaurs?

[full lagoon]

I don't think so but dicraeosaurs and rebbachisaurs were somewhat derived from them

[compact leaf]

erm fishy they said diplodocids not diplodocoids

[atomic flare]

#BringBackDiplodocids

[balmy oyster]

Not entirely

We maybe have some basal somphospondyl sauropods that made it to the maastrichtian, I believe we have one in the formation asiatyrannus was found in & another in titanovenator’s formation

[charred hearth]

thoughts on this post?

[compact leaf]

there’s a few things knocking around that are more basal than true titanosaurs yeah, diamantinasaurs are the big one

[atomic flare]

The late cretaceous is dominated by titanosaurs by the looks of it.

[balmy oyster]

Rebirth only made it seem like people didn’t care about dinosaurs anymore because they had to since dominion was so bad and they had to find a way to soft retcon it out

As for the first movie…yeah idk why they had that line

[thorn grove]

Titanosaurs filled a niche that was kind of just immune to competition from other Dinosaur groups, smaller stuff like Dicraeosaurids would have had a lot more niche overlap with large Ornithopods, for example