paleontology

[storm merlin]

Did only birds survive the asteroid impact that “wiped out” the dinosaurs?

[stable sun]

randomdinos what do you think about Hector's Ichthyosaur

[quasi token]

cool giant fossil, hope we find it at some point (at which point it'll almost def be downsized)

[stiff osprey]

it is probably between sikanniensis and Ichthyotitan size given that its centrum length is in sikanniensis range

[tacit pine]

👆

[round hedge]

Bro only knows to criticize, not to see the fact that after it was explained to me i actually understiod it now

Not everyone has those things embeded in their brains, Einstein

[stable sun]

it's way smaller, 7.5 cm

[stiff osprey]

i remembered it being 9 cm, the smallest centrum in sikkaniensis is 8.3 cm

[quasi token]

https://www.deviantart.com/diocles305/journal/Reconstruction-of-Hector-s-Ichthyosaur-1070407532 here this has a ton of the stuff complied on it

[stable sun]

it's ~45 cm wide, there's also another 38 cm wide centrum and another one is 15 by 2.5 cm

[stable sun]

peak

[quasi token]

it would just be nice to hopefully find the bones at some point to actually verify the measurements

[storm merlin]

Alligators survived the asteroid impact, ain’t that cool.

[stiff osprey]

alligators, turtles, ground birds, a few mammals, insects, frogs, snakes

[stable sun]

tyrannosaurus rex

[polar scroll]

333.5 TONS?!?!?
G-GAH DAYUM.

[storm merlin]

The only dinosaurs that survived were avian dinosaurs

[round hedge]

ABSOLUTE UNIT

[grim flame]

hey guys i mught sound dum for this but i am knew to all the dinosaur fights but who would win, t rex vs spinosaurus

[polar scroll]

t-rex easily,altough im a spino fan,Rex´s superior weight and bite force are gonna mark his win against the spino,altough it WON´T be easy

[stable sun]

https://tenor.com/view/undertale-soul-breaking-heart-gif-17915692

[storm merlin]

it might end in a draw due to them being one of the strongest Dinosaurs to roam

[stiff osprey]

The Spinosaurus would use its sail like a saw blade to cut the T.rex in half

[stable sun]

"one of the strongest Dinosaurs to roam"

[storm merlin]

“One of the”

[stable sun]

there's like more than 100 sauropods above them

[stiff osprey]

technically T.rex is one of the 400 strongest dinosaurs

[storm merlin]

So half of the dinosaurs are stronger than it?

[stable sun]

400 is far less than half but a big chunk of them are

[stiff osprey]

there's like 2000 species of non-avian dinosaur that are valid

[storm merlin]

Only 1,000 non avian dinosaurs species have been found

[stiff osprey]

not even close, there are 1300 named genera and many genera have more than one species

[storm merlin]

Actually there’s only about 300 valid genera that have been discovered

[stable sun]

Also there's a list of like over 3000 dinosaur non-avian species that someone made

[stiff osprey]

Sauropodomorpha alone has more than 300 genera

[outer tusk]

^

[wraith jungle]

yo random, do you play PoT?

[stable sun]

random have you ever played Undertale

[stiff osprey]

POT, very rarely, Undertale i played exactly one time

[outer tusk]

Is it reasonable to give a macrocollum,a 70kg unaysaurid sauropodomorph feathers?

[stable sun]

what about Deltarune

[stiff osprey]

nop

[storm merlin]

Your list contains non Dinosaurs though…

[stable sun]

Do you think it contains THAT many non-dinosaurs though ?

[stiff osprey]

you can go and count them yourself, excluding non-dinosaurs and invalid genera will give ~1300

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dinosaur_genera

[stiff osprey]

this is a screenshot of a paper from 2006, hundreds of dinosaur genera have been named since then

[storm merlin]

Oh I see the problem I was talking about species

[wary junco]

If we look at species, not genera, there would be even more - the issue is the paper you quoted was almost 20 years old

[stable sun]

Enjoy

[fossil ingot]

Goat

[wary junco]

do feel like wikipedia needs to edit the page title to "non-avian dinosaur genera" because if you add avian genera suddenly the list is a whole lot bigger

[outer tusk]

yes

[tall prawn]

@stiff osprey is there a tweet of you saying maip is 2.5-2.7t

[storm merlin]

A lot of those dinosaurs were identified only by their teeth or bone compared to others, what I’m talking about is absolute certain that it’s a new species not chance

[stiff osprey]

I could've sworn that it used to say non avian dinosaur genera, maybe i'm getting the mungunga effect

[stable sun]

why do you think the "Status" column exists there

[stable sun]

have you ever considered it

[manic grail]

If you are referring to indominus rex then no, indominus rex is uglier

[tall prawn]

no giga is ugly indom is more goated

[tall prawn]

.

[mellow prism]

lmao, one message in 2 minutes is criminal

[potent rapids]

Funny how in that book they had T-rex at 8.5 tons at a lower ESR score then Spinosaurus or Giga, since they used a terrible specimen for Rex

[stable sun]

note that there are no large Spinosaurine specimens or any Carcharodontosaurus specimens from Bahariya

[fossil ingot]

2-2.5t

[wary junco]

Most things listed here are certain to be distinct taxa because they have diagnostic characters... there's a subset of genera that are controversial as to whether they're distinct, or based on remains that have ambiguously diagnostic features, but not nearly to the extent you're suggesting where we lose about half of current valid genera lmao

[manic grail]

Giga looks good and rex too and spino is the most handsome

[fossil ingot]

Why are they so light...

[mellow prism]

2016

[storm merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/steven-grant-moon-knight-not-reading-that-essay-gif-25788755

[stable sun]

tldr you're wrong

[wary junco]

"essay" is truly a word for what's effectively a short paragraph 😭

[tawdry lintel]

Did carchas have that big nail ?

[opaque kayak]

it was revealed to me in a dream

[storm merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/psy-gangnam-style-gif-8008198

[wary junco]

Okay so we've established there's no meaningful conversation here, cool

[trim abyss]

we're reaching the levels of maturity of discussion previously unknown to mankind

[manic grail]

https://tenor.com/view/optimus-prime-transformers-transformers-revenge-of-the-fallen-forest-battle-gif-12186922469671392887

[storm merlin]

It’s gandgam style what else is there to talk about

[warped peak]

Is this eye in the right spot for a Carnivoran?

[stiff osprey]

maybe a bit higher up? but horizontally it is in the right place

[stable sun]

Wdym?

[warped peak]

Perfect

Compositing a skeletal for a candidate for the largest amphicyonid

[outer tusk]

^

[stiff osprey]

the earliest skin impressions from a sauropodomorph are middle jurassic so yes you can give triassic ones feathers

[quasi token]

corrected this a bit

[outer tusk]

Would it be reasonable to give feathers to certain dinosaur due to their size?

[fluid inlet]

This one is accurate not the one wes sent

[quasi token]

yeah, the art is fantastic but the head is literally too small if its supposed to be the holotype at least (being around 2.5~ish meters when i measured it), but still having a 1:5 ratio

[bright sluice]

Were there any frugivore/nut eating pterosaurs?

[quasi token]

tupuxara and tapejara are suggested as frugivores last i heard

[scenic flame]

it isn't, it doesn't have the right proportions and as much as I hate to say it the maximum size is too small

[quasi token]

if you mean the livy it does actually have the right porportions if scaled off brygmophyseter, if you mean the meg yeah its a bit dated

[scenic flame]

no I mean meg, livy is probably too big

[quasi token]

livy is the right size, scaling off skull length with other physeteroids ends up with an obscenely chunky animal due to livy's proportionally shortened skull, so skull width is likely more reliable for it (15m and 12.5m livys overlayed over a modern sperm whale)

ofc since we only have the skull and some isolated teeth it's not a certainty but from what i've researched 14-15m seems to be the most likely size for it based on its relatives

[scenic flame]

tmk 13 meters is the accurate max based off it's close relatives, with larger estimates using more distantly related animals which is inherantly less accurate

[opaque kayak]

IIRC 15 meters is also based on brygmophyseter, but just a different measurement method

[quasi token]

livy's phylogeny changes quite a bit, i've seen it grouped with acrophyseter, other raptorials as a whole, basal to modern physeteroids, even one placement basal to kogiids (lol)

using other raptorial physeteroids is likely just the best option rn due to the similiar lifestyles and possible phylogeny over modern sperm whales

[scenic flame]

yeah apon looking at some other scaling attempts 15 does seem fine

[quasi token]

the main issue with the old 16-17.5m estimates was that they themselves used an oversized estimate of zygophyseter at 6.5-7m, when using a corrected brygmophyseter it goes down to around 15m (and you'd likely get very similiar results using corrected zygo as well)

[opaque kayak]

I find nau's comment on this pretty interesting

[fluid inlet]

Good stuff all around

[frail robin]

Most Tapejarids along with generalists like Darwinopterus, Pterodactylus and Caviramus

[tranquil quartz]

I’d say so, they wouldn’t really want excess heat

[storm merlin]

Fun theroy: triceratops had quills

[obsidian tulip]

Wrong triceratops had feathers @dense spindle

[dense spindle]

I love you

[stray saddle]

😂

[storm merlin]

Nuh uh

[fluid inlet]

Paleo accurate

[storm merlin]

At least mine makes sense a little 🤷‍♂️

[honest estuary]

okay but this art is fire what a cool idea

[warped peak]

On a serious note, it almost certainly did not. There is no evidence of it on their fossils

[storm merlin]

But there is on their skin

[stiff osprey]

we have Trike skin preserved and it doesn't have quills:

[storm merlin]

I think the quills decompose and aren’t able to mummify still fun to think they might had them

[halcyon cobalt]

no direct evidence though so your statement was wrong

[outer tusk]

they didn't have quills, basically in the simplest ways since pisttaco is the only that had them and likely was a left over feature as the group grew larger there was no point in them

[stiff osprey]

https://incertaesedisblog.wordpress.com/2019/11/26/triceratops-skin-photos/

more on trike not having quills
however Psittacosaurus does have quills, so some other ceratopsians could have had it too

[storm merlin]

Still fun to think about 🤷‍♂️

[fossil ingot]

How would that make sense?
When we have stuff like Pstiacco with mummify quills
Trike doesn't

[storm merlin]

Still fun to think about

[scenic flame]

That is begging the question though, rather than providing evidence or a supported hypothesis as to why any advanced ceratopsian would have quills

[velvet burrow]

Which still doesn't make it a fact

[storm merlin]

Yeah I just changed it lol thanks

[outer tusk]

design wise it also just looks dumb

[storm merlin]

Fun theory though lol

[tacit pine]

Fr🥶

[outer tusk]

unironically it's not because like Vivid say why would a derived ceratopsian like triceratops need such a structure besides maybe a mating display

[scenic flame]

I mean in that regard I feel it's begging the question too, since they could just have them with no specific purpose

[storm merlin]

Triceratops were very slow dinosaurs though, so it could use the extra protection from predators like the tyrannosaurs

[outer tusk]

yeah my fault unc, they just had to look cool

[scenic flame]

quills aren't doing sh*t for them lol, they didn't need the extra protection from a hypothetical or historical viewpoint

[outer tusk]

turns around and faces the rex with 2 long horns as a defense mechanism

[winter marsh]

spiky quills for when bitten in butt, enemy mouth ouch

[storm merlin]

Why you guys getting so pressed over a theory 😭

[outer tusk]

who's pressed?

[mellow prism]

are srumis and lil p some kind of omnh brothers?

[storm merlin]

What’s a omnh brother 😭

[river plinth]

That actually dose look pretty awesome now I wish they did TwT

[scenic flame]

you were saying
https://tenor.com/view/camel-chew-cactus-gif-18328141

[storm merlin]

I don’t think T. rex has a specially evolved mouth to withstand the prickles of a cactus to eat it

[halcyon cobalt]

more like a guess or fun idea than theory tbh

[scenic flame]

You don't think or you know (not in regards to cacti, just general toughness)
I just want to stress the importance of differentiating between Theory, Hypothesis and Conjecture

[keen forum]

12.4-13.5 atm seems to be the max with cross scaling the 15m livys seem to just be ones that are a bit iffy ( tho i have seen 14m hit with a longer tail )

[halcyon cobalt]

the bigger the animal the less the quills are going to bother it, and at a scale of 5< tons they won’t really matter. there’s a reason why all defensively quilled animals today are quite small

[scenic flame]

We know Tyrannosaurids were adapt at crushing bone and generally dealing with well armoured prey, so I would assume on that basis they would have a tough mouth pallet etc in order to deal with sharp and hard bone

[lavish wraith]

Camel gives zero fricks

[outer tusk]

Funny a goat'd idea

[balmy oyster]

“It’s fun to think therefore I will still do it despite it being most likely not true”

[outer tusk]

This is so real

[fluid inlet]

Me when I say spinosaurus 50 tons 36 M

[flat pond]

Especially since the others have posted links and there is direct evidence for the no quills on Triceratops. They would have literally served no purpose or benefit in any form of defense, especially when Vivid stated that tyrannosaurids were adapted to crushing bone. Which is why at this point in time this would be a fairly accurate depiction of Triceratops

[storm merlin]

It’s been 2 hours bro go do something better 😭

[flat pond]

Oi, don’t be rude. I simply was pointing something out.

[flat pond]

I mean, they really don’t. They don’t even have teeth on their upper jaw

Also I never really realized how big Stupendemys is until I had found this

[fossil ingot]

Puru food iirc

[flat pond]

Did it live with Puru?

Nvm, it did. Explains the size

[rich vessel]

Dang that’s big

[flat pond]

Yeah, rivals Archelon in size

[storm merlin]

What’s an upper jaw 😭

[fluid inlet]

@stiff osprey @zealous ravine brachiosaurus at the bottom

[stiff osprey]

Hmm that pose is kinda funky looking. Don't like it as much as the argent

[proud ferry]

LMAO

[stiff osprey]

But also there seems to be other new animals in the pic, a tyrannosaur, a therizinosaur, Dreadnoughtus on the poster in the back, and a therizinosaur

[fluid inlet]

Good eye I didn’t even peep the rest because I was too focused on brachiosaurus

[halcyon cobalt]

are we being fr right now

[stiff osprey]

Yep that's a Haolonggood rex. Or a zhucheng

[flat pond]

So many interesting figures

[fluid inlet]

The theri from this angle looks terrible 😭

[stiff osprey]

Yeah ngl that looks like the Papo theri

[flat pond]

I think we are

[fluid inlet]

https://x.com/haolonggood/status/1876124204363399413?s=46 @stiff osprey @zealous ravine

Haolonggood (好龙谷) (@Haolonggood) on X

#Haolonggood | #Brachiosaurus 1:35

¡El braquiosaurio finalmente está aquí!

Fecha de reserva del Brachiosaurus: desde hoy hasta el 12 de enero.

Regalo de pedido anticipado: Dos combinaciones de colores de Huayangosaurus, un color y la elección es aleatorio.

Los pedidos por

Twitter · Jan 6, 2025, 4:30 AM

[compact leaf]

peak dinosaur

[storm merlin]

Yeah nah I’ve been trolling lmao

[fluid inlet]

For size comparisons if you have any of these currently

[compact leaf]

oh it’s kind of short

[fluid inlet]

lol what

[manic grail]

Even i am taller

[zealous ravine]

Ty! Haven’t seen that yet! Looks like new huayango colors will come with em! I’m quite glad that’s the preorder bonus as now I’ll feel fine not preordering, cause I already have it lmao

[compact leaf]

I mean like shorter than it should be (holotype is like 15.5m tall), obviously brachi isn’t short lol

[fluid inlet]

the only thing that sucks in that is having to wait for it until march! if you pre-order you will get before the month ends.

[stiff osprey]

looks about right, holotype is only 15.5m if you put its neck straight up like brick did

[compact leaf]

counterpoint: recapture creek because I want brachi to be taller

[stiff osprey]

recapture creek is either a brachiosaur or a camarasaur depending on which clade i want to be smaller in a given day

[tawdry lintel]

In Pot, Titan has a bigger claw than the others, I wonder where did devs take it from

[drifting condor]

random question why are herbivores typically seen as easy food especially hadrosaurs

[stiff osprey]

They really aren't, a large number of people on the internet seem to think that hadrosaurs would fight and kill tyrannosaurs on the regular

[compact leaf]

we went too far in the opposite direction

[frigid delta]

is it just me or we never see any dinosaur angst in anything at all? (yt, insta, twt, tiktok, etc)

[round hedge]

Edmontosaurus stomps T.rex bro, wth are these few internet folks on abt 🙏💀

Glad that many think Edmonton stomps tho

[fair cypress]

Movie tropes from JP started planted this mainstream and the JW kept it going (ankylosaurus shouldn't have lost to I. Rex)

[frigid delta]

here we go again (Edmonto would rather run from Rex instead of fighting, u do realize running away is also a form of self defence right?)
think of Joseph Joestar's Secret Technique in JJBA

[stiff osprey]

The feeble lion stands no chance against the mighty kick of the zebra, an aggressive herbivore of the same size

(you can count the number of lions killed by zebras in all of history on one hand)

[storm heron]

Can we count how many died by the horns of Bufallo tho 😎

[drifting condor]

Shant a lil taller

[fair cypress]

JJBA fan detected, opinion invalidated.

All jokes aside, yeah E. Annectens was prey to T. Rex but I'm willing to be 9/10 that if E. Annectens fought back it'd win.

That being said, I don't think E. Annectens would fight back very frequently (ambushes and prey response.)

[frigid delta]

INVALIDATED?!

[storm shuttle]

least rabid Paleo chat

[drifting condor]

https://tenor.com/view/weather-report-weather-jjba-jjba-jojo's-bizarre-adventure-eating-apple-gif-16360576299089438135

[stiff osprey]

Considering they're three times the size of a lion and one of the only herbivores with coordinated herd defenses, they'd really suck if they didn't manage to kill a few

[round hedge]

Do we have evidence of simmilar herding defense mechanisms in triceratops ?

[fair cypress]

I was gonna say lol, that analogy seemed more geared toward Triceratops and Tyrannosaurus

[sullen cairn]

I’m pretty sure in 9/10 of scenarios an edmontosaurus would legit be like 2/3rds the size of a rex

[stiff osprey]

No evidence for it in Triceratops or in any extinct animal. Among modern herbivores it happens in a handful of species out of thousands

99% of the time the rest of the herd will just leave while some poor fool gets eaten

[frigid delta]

cmiiw but remember someone in this channel says that Trike is a solitary herbivore instead of pack herbivore?

[sullen cairn]

This is probably a common sentiment among 8-year-olds people who’s sum exposure to paleontology is two Jurassic films but as others have said it’s a shockingly rare stance among the armchair community

[halcyon cobalt]

the powerful hadrosaur armed to the teeth with powerful claws, robust biting surfaces and a terrifying tail whip

[frigid delta]

hadrosaur deserves its low ranks as a fodder

[thorn grove]

Fodder is a stupid word to use in ecological discussions imo.

Fodder to me implies an animal that has no predator defense at all, which at most can only really be applied to some isolated animals living on islands and stuff like that, and even some of those are known to be defensive.

[drifting condor]

I know a who would agree

[stiff osprey]

at the same time people read the term "antipredator defense" and think it means violently murdering the predator when in reality that's about as common as getting struck by lightning

[thorn grove]

Of course, but that again betrays how many people think everything is a death match.

I guess running away from a predator is dishonorable or something.

[round hedge]

Nah, they got the jfc mindset 🙏😭

[thorn grove]

I just find it silly that the response to "Hadrosaurs are fodder because they would lose to a literal T. rex in a fight to the death" hasn't been "that's not how that works" but instead "actually Hadrosaurs WOULD kill a T. rex in a fight."

It just goes to show that the mentality hasn't really changed at all. Hadrosaur awesomebros are no different than any others, if not worse.

[drifting condor]

Dryo vs rex jk

[frigid delta]

yes
https://youtu.be/pGjVAvJWkG4?si=SB0KrP3SEttnCTXF

[thorn grove]

Dryo wins low diff

[drifting condor]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-black-guy-gif-5750196720983083288

[thorn grove]

Also to add to this I don't understand why the pushback has focused so much on Tyrannosaurs when it was pretty common for shows to have a single raptor (or at most a small pack) jump on a Hadrosaur dozens of times their own size, only for it to lose the will to live and die instantly.

[drifting condor]

Sometimes people forget just because it doesn't beat a mega-theropod it's instantly a pushover and everything beats it like yeah Edmontonosaurus isn't beating T-Rex on average but it doesn't mean it can't happen yeah it wouldn't happen often but still it could happen many modern herbivores can beat up their predators pretty badly for them to run away they don't have to fight to death

[opaque kayak]

15 meters are also based off of brygmophyseter. To my knowledge, basing it off of living sperm whales get around 13-14 meters, and some other method of reconning off of brygmo also gets 12.5 meters, so both 12 and 15 meters should be equally plausible

[fluid inlet]

magnapaulia isnt losing to any carnivore

[white matrix]

the T rex in question:

[halcyon cobalt]

the paulivore 9000 in question:

[fluid inlet]

Big Paul, Magnapaulia

[sullen cairn]

i suppose this harkens to the other amusing part of the theropod/hadrosaur discourse of how giant glupshitto specimen, hadrosaur is usually taken with far more grace than giant glupshitto specimen, theropod

[halcyon cobalt]

x Rex: 😍
giga dentary:😡 it don’t count 😡

[opaque kayak]

Isn't x rex a lot more complete tho?

[halcyon cobalt]

Idk but probably

[round hedge]

PEAK HADROSAUR

BIG PAUL IS SO UNDERRATED

[sudden wind]

It's a femur and some tail bits iirc

[sullen cairn]

yeah x-rex isn't half bad on account of being half an axial column (even if somewhat hampered by the general lack of an axial description for edmontosaurus)
becky's giant however is very incomplete

[drifting condor]

I love hadrosaurs but I can't find that doesn't get slandered except shant

[fossil ingot]

Jumpscare

[frigid delta]

ah
Meraxes

[lunar copper]

that hipdip is just getting worse and worse
freakish hunchback

[frigid delta]

OH SHI WAIT I JUST NOTICED THE HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME AHH POSTURE ON THIS DAWG 💔💔💔

[pliant cedar]

he is screaming in agony

[round hedge]

The age-old question, what did spinosaurus use its sail for

Most plausible answer would be display purposes and to attract mates

[runic rover]

how did Amargasaurus really fought/defended against natural predators?

[flat pond]

The crest makes it look like Olorotitan

[wraith kindle]

There were probably some secondary benefits too, clearly it wasn't maladaptive.

[round hedge]

It also helped it be more hydrodynamic

[steady rock]

Size, breeding fast, or it just didn't have any in its formation for a fully grown one

[hardy sentinel]

Full body quill covering Pachycephalosaurus jumpscare (I fw this heavy)

[lavish frigate]

Honestly dig the capybara hair vibes

[hardy sentinel]

Real, and I don't see much fossil evidence against it since we don't have Pachycephalosaur skin impressions

[manic grail]

How do we know that pachys hard head isnt covered in flesh and skin and such

[hardy sentinel]

We know for a fact that they used their dome for headbutting similar to Rams, and ramming heads filled with connective tissue together and causing unnecessary pain isn't exactly evolutionarily useful

[lone zephyr]

correct me if im wrong but pachy skulls (or at least some sort of pachycephalosaur) were found with impact damage in the quadratojugal and squamosal parts of the skull, suggesting impact damage?

[lone zephyr]

iguanacolossus is cooler imo

[hardy sentinel]

Correct. I was saying my statement as a way to say they couldn't have had fleshy heads

[sterile trail]

Imo Asiatyrannus has the weakest Tyrannosaurid name. Just sayin

(Why is the slow mode 2 minutes?)

[hardy sentinel]

Real. Ganzhoutyrannus would have been better, since that's the city it was found near

[sterile trail]

Just saying, in terms of likeability, Asiatyrannus sucks. You literally have Thanatotheristes which means **"Reaper of Death" **

Nanuqsaurus is still my favorite Tyrannosaurid though. I love my Polar Bear Lizard

[round hedge]

The more i look at it, the less i hate pachy, it just looks really cute with those quills

[winter marsh]

w

[steady smelt]

I have a question.How do island animals avoid inbred?

[sudden wind]

Both taxa are questionable it's so funny.

[round hedge]

How innacurate is Brunette from jwcc ct compared to an accurate becklespinax ?

[sudden wind]

If you base a fragmentary questionable taxa on Concavenator : head too small, neck and body too short, feet too big, tail is weird too ?

Also the crests aren't supposed to go above the eye. Jaw muscles are incorrect and look like some sort of skin flap. Also too many vertebrae compose the sail : only 2 (being dorsal 12 and 13) are raised, the sacral are then sorta short.

[stray wren]

Well, Becklespinax doesn't exist. However, Altispinax does. In short, it's not too bad, but we really have no idea what Altispinax looks like or what it even really is outside of being a carnosaur, but currently it looks more like Concavenator

[warped peak]

Here's Becklespinax nowadays

[winter marsh]

my question is why they chose becklespinax over concavenator and even altispinax

[sudden wind]

Becklespinax is Altispinax though.

[round hedge]

Beckle is more popular ig, i mean, it appeared in fossils fighters, a pretty well known dinosaur video game

But honestly, conca would be more of a household name in my eyes

[winter marsh]

so is concavenator? I mean, its literally on the second JW movie so its cannon to the franchise. Also rawr conca solos

[round hedge]

Maybe instead of chosing more popular dinos, they wanted more obscure ones ?

[winter marsh]

they chose the invalid over the valid, fair

[stable sun]

It is most likely closely related to Concavenator

[round hedge]

I swear i can't tell the difference between it, and conca, it's just that conca has a smaller sail ig

[warped peak]

It's like that for most Carcharodonts

[round hedge]

But hey, fun sized theropod...

Equals good boi/good girl in my book

(Now i think an altispinax would make a good pet XD)

[sudden wind]

There were some taxonomy stuffs that were going on that wanted to rename for whatever reason Altispinax (originally within Megalosaurus because at that time no one was really doing diagnostics and lacked rigor) Becklespinax. Altispinax itself stays questionable as it isn't really diagnostic so it stays for most researchers as Tetanurae incertae sedis (I personally would keep this opinion given the fossil's nature). Naish 2003 however consider it as an Allosauroid.

Concavenator is a true taxon that is unquestionable. The fossil is remarkably complete. If Altispinax is close to Concavenator or should look like one is just up in the air (it has no concrete phylogenetic position so we don't know if Altispinax could be a close relative). You can also reconstruct it as something more like Acrocanthosaurus or another sort of Allosaur and it would still be okay.

When it comes to Jurassic World, they just use whatever name they can find, even invalid ones, to enlarge their roster and have more dinosaurs than there is within the scientific consensus as for now.

[drifting condor]

Ai?

[hardy sentinel]

@sonic wraith Troodontids and Dromeosaurids share a common name being Raptors. Raptor does not belong to one distinct group

[hardy sentinel]

It says the sourcing and time it was drawn, Mohamad Haghani, 2014. This is not AI

[drifting condor]

True-

[sudden wind]

Common name issue tbf. A raptor is just some sort of predatory """""""""bird""""""""" looking animal that has talons (so it includes Strigiforms, Accipitriforms, Cathartiforms, Falconiforms, Dromaeosaurids, Troodontids and possibly Avisaurids now).

[lone zephyr]

dilong is also kinda lame, not its meaning but just how the name sounds

[sudden wind]

Dilong is not gonna lie kinda ugly anyway.

[sonic wraith]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-aye-fair-enough-aye-fair-enough-gif-16035240

[velvet burrow]

Raptor is for birbs of prey, i'd rather refer to pop culture raptors as deinonychosaurians

[stable sun]

"it isn't really diagnostic"

Diagnosis- (after Naish, 2011) posterior dorsal spines transversely expanded at tips; large. rectangular hyposphene in posterior dorsals (unknown in Concavenator).
(after Cuesta et al., 2013) (compared to Concavenator) less ventrally constricted centra; anteriorly angled posterior dorsal neural spines; posterior dorsal neural spines distally expanded anteroposteriorly; posterior dorsal neural spines transversely broader.

Yeah ok

[sudden wind]

Does this help to place it somewhere down the line within Theropoda ?

[stable sun]

Source: https://theropoddatabase.github.io/Carnosauria.htm#Altispinaxdunkeri
It is not Tetanurae incertae sedis, it is most likely closely related to Concavenator. This entire diagnosis makes it a diagnostic taxon btw.

Also:

(suggested) accessory centrodiapophyseal lamina on the transverse processes of the posterior dorsal vertebrae (unknown in Eocarcharia and Sauroniops); eleventh and twelfth dorsal neural spines highly elongate (five times the height of the centra), while ninth dorsal neural spine is short (unknown in Eocarcharia and Sauroniops); firm contact between apexes of eleventh and twelfth dorsal neural spines (unknown in Eocarcharia and Sauroniops).
Traits present in Concavenator and Altispinax

[sudden wind]

If it has its own autopomorphies then sure it is diagnostic. Though calling it closely related to Concavenator by one shared character (if it has then my bad)? I wouldn't be so sure about that and would still take a pinch of salt until possibly more fossils can be attributed to the taxon (also preserving anterior dorsal vertabrae).

[stable sun]

I listed the shared characters, there's more than one

(suggested) accessory centrodiapophyseal lamina on the transverse processes of the posterior dorsal vertebrae (unknown in Eocarcharia and Sauroniops); eleventh and twelfth dorsal neural spines highly elongate (five times the height of the centra), while ninth dorsal neural spine is short (unknown in Eocarcharia and Sauroniops); firm contact between apexes of eleventh and twelfth dorsal neural spines (unknown in Eocarcharia and Sauroniops).

[sudden wind]

Would have been nice for the authors to add that it was found in Concavenator.

[outer tusk]

Justice duncan will make a updated skeletal of that guy

[hardy sentinel]

Raptor means plunderer/thief, birds of prey just got the common name first

[sterile trail]

Certainly a Macronarian

[fluid inlet]

Love macaroni

[topaz shell]

Other than the argent this might be their best sauropod

[steady rock]

is this true?

[manic grail]

Yea i always hear them in the backyard

[compact leaf]

they found that the structure of its vocal organs is similar to birds, as to what that means the implications are slightly unclear

[sudden wind]

They found the larynx. The sounds are however unknown.

[rancid arch]

Ankylosaurids are the only dino that shouldnt be even bird like..then this

[fluid inlet]

I don't give a damn about T rex

[lavish frigate]

Why call them deinonychosaurians instead of just….dromaeosaurs or troodontids

[stiff osprey]

Troodontids are not dromaeosaurids, but could be considered 'raptors'. Same for unenlagiids.

But no one's gonna replace raptor with deinonychosaurian, because that's a 5x clunkier word to remember

[tribal olive]

Rest in Peace Saurophaganax maximus 😞

1931-2024

[halcyon cobalt]

he still here bro

[tacit pine]

Rip

[tribal olive]

No he's not he is now a nomen dubium.

[frigid delta]

he's still here... as a sauropod
the theropod however, now belong to a new spesies of Allo; Allosaurus anax

[sharp dragon]

Saurophaganax fans when their fat allosaurus is now actually a fat allosaurus.

[wary heath]

Why doesn't pnso or haolonggood make pterosaurs?

[indigo cradle]

Our beloved flying and swimming brothers aren't as popular with the general population

[frigid delta]

is this count as pterosaur/marine reptile slander?

[halcyon cobalt]

no

[indigo cradle]

Whoa I love them

[frigid delta]

good
cuz i'll never tolerate any

[fluid inlet]

Never heard of this guy

[tribal olive]

No way it's Makatoony! I'm subscribed! I love your animations!!

[frigid delta]

another Makatoony fans (like me) spotted

[drifting condor]

What would you guys say are the top 10 biggest herbivorous dinosaurs excluding sauropods

[manic grail]

Me

[fluid inlet]

1. Chili hot dog and the rest don’t matter

[drifting condor]

What-

[halcyon cobalt]

a bunch of hadrosaurs prob

[drifting condor]

I wish iggy was on the list

[halcyon cobalt]

why

[drifting condor]

Cause funny

https://tenor.com/view/jurassic-world-jurassic-world-dominion-iguanodon-grazing-looking-up-gif-26030331

[fluid inlet]

Didn’t laugh

[wraith kindle]

They could probably do an approximation though? Anyways, would be funny if Anos vocals were made more bird like, cognitive dissonance ahoy.

[halcyon cobalt]

we can know the ranges possible but never the patterns and songs

[regal cloak]

I WANT A PET DILONG.

[round hedge]

It's like a bird dog

(Dilong is a certified good boi)

[sudden wind]

.

[halcyon cobalt]

imagine waking up to that lanky thing in your bedroom

[stable sun]

how big was epanterias?

[frigid delta]

how big was Allosaurus?

[stable sun]

known specimens are between 4.7 m and ~12 m

[round hedge]

12m is A.anax, right ?

[stable sun]

yes

[sterile trail]

A. anax still bigger than Torvosaurus

I think

[obsidian tulip]

Bigger than ceratosaurus for sure

[stable sun]

they're like comparable

[sterile trail]

I'd think so as well

[round hedge]

But who would win in a fight ?

[indigo cradle]

Neither

[steady rock]

What's the top 3 largest Thyreophora?

[halcyon cobalt]

probably like stegosaurus dacenturus and priconodon or something

[stiff osprey]

world's only priconodon rememberer

[velvet burrow]

It's a pile of teeth and a leg bone no wonder

[scenic flame]

I'd just put anky in prico's place at that point

[winter marsh]

Miragaia

[scenic flame]

https://youtu.be/-BrtqoG95zI

[frigid delta]

then that is ur Epanterias size answer (pick any idrk how big was it)

[stable sun]

that's dumb i need a specific number

[wraith kindle]

Would be fun to speculate though.

[serene moat]

Does anyone have a skeletal or size comparison of the largest triceratops specimen?? Just curious to see the size of the big tank

Isn't there a triceratops called big John or smth that's the largest is there any pics of it

[wraith kindle]

I think I saw some a ways back?

[round hedge]

I searched it up and.....HOLY, THE THING'S MASSIVE

[zealous ravine]

Besides Priconodon, would Edmontonia be the largest nodosaur, or would it be smthn else?

[fluid inlet]

https://t.co/xUtEihoo3T

[zealous ravine]

Noice, you gonna get it? And if so which color?

[compact leaf]

peloroplites takes it, the thing is an absolute monster

[zealous ravine]

Oh yeah fair

[round hedge]

Holy, this guy's huge.....

Still a good boi tho

[zealous ravine]

Honestly I’m not actually sure it’s bigger than Edmontonia. I’m seeing slightly bigger sizes for Eddy than Pelo

[round hedge]

How strong was the bite of an Alioramus in newtons ?

[fluid inlet]

Think I might wait until I see it on Amazon 45$ for 65 day shipping lol and 70$ for standard. It’s a great model but that’s like 2 dinosaurs in 1.

[zealous ravine]

Fair

[wraith kindle]

I think ive seen one that put it a full meter larger.

[umbral kite]

guys wat were parasaalphas front legs for

[steady rock]

https://tenor.com/view/stan-twitter-meme-bluhns-isaiahstantwt-gif-25104981

[tough parcel]

Walking

[steady rock]

would balance be another reason?

[wraith kindle]

It would still need them when it wants to walk quadrupedally.

[steady rock]

do we have studies of dinosaurs point of mass? ( is that the word that im thinking of?? )

[manic grail]

What if trex head is actually a parasite and the normal ones have smaller other heads but the parasite is the huge head and if it eats the old small head it becomes the new head and controls the trex

[hallow spear]

Center of mass/graviyu? yeah there are some

[steady rock]

yea that

[drifting condor]

Igaunadon is kinda small for the biggest igaunadontid don't get me wrong 5 tons is big that's kinda small if you compare it to other hadrosaurs
(yes I know igaunadon is not a hadrosaur)

[thorn grove]

I mean it was much earlier, they evolved from realatively small ornithopod ancestors so it makes sense the group wouldn't have reached its maximum size potential by the early cretaceous

[static mango]

What are y'all favorite prehistoric fish/sea creature? Mine are Dunkleosteus and Anomalocarsis

[zealous ravine]

Walking, balance, etc (assuming you mean parasaurolophus)

[sly viper]

Guys what was the weight of stegosaurus and dacentrurus?

[tranquil quartz]

No actually they used them to box eachother for mating rights, I used to live in their neighbourhood

[compact leaf]

largest stego is 8ish, dace is somewhere in the 7t range iirc

[sly viper]

So dace is larger in general?

[compact leaf]

dace doesn’t have as many specimens and stego is horribly figured so I wouldn’t say that

[stable sun]

https://academic.oup.com/zoolinnean/article/203/1/zlae153/7942678?login=false new Sauropodomorph Ahvaytum

[fluid inlet]

Yes

[tranquil quartz]

[steep sundial]

spino head cardboared cut out, paleoaccurate?

[tough parcel]

I say we refer to Cuttlefish's message 🤗

[dry kindle]

Does dakotaraptor's remains come primarily from basilemys or some other prehistoric turtle from a similar area?

[tough parcel]

It was one bone out of the entire specimen 😭 it wasn't primarily any turtle

[dry kindle]

I see, heard that was the case whoops

[halcyon cobalt]

imagine how funny it would be if they found like a shell and thought it was part of the dromie

[stable sun]

One bone is Axestemys splendida, the rest is Dinosaurian

[stark herald]

Very fragmentary lol

[steady rock]

what was larger, archelon or stupedemys?

[fossil ingot]

Idk
All I know Stupen was massive
Cause guy lived with Puru(still Puru food)

[fluid inlet]

https://x.com/dinoh555/status/1876800290197831920?s=46

Dactylioceras🇵🇸 (@Dinoh555) on X

THE OLDEST LAURASIAN DINOSAUR AND THE 1ST OF 2025

Rethinking dinosaur origins: oldest known equatorial dinosaur-bearing assemblage (mid-late Carnian Popo Agie FM, Wyoming, USA)

Ahvaytum bahndooiveche gen. et sp. nov
https://t.co/4OIXCG4Lv1
Art by @SerpenIllus

Twitter · Jan 8, 2025, 1:17 AM

[green narwhal]

Hello guys I have a question. How good are you guys at identifying species on fossils? Cuz I have a random fossil in my house which me and my sister accidentally found while we were younger and I would love to know what it is

[fallow tapir]

I dont know much of anything about fossils but you could try using googles image search and see if that gives u anything

[green narwhal]

Thanks I'll try

It's not showing any results

[fallow tapir]

Well then sending it here wouldn't hurt i dont think

[green narwhal]

It looks like something from the cambrian explosion but I'm not sure

[sly viper]

We're trikes solitary?

[fallow tapir]

Thats cool

[green narwhal]

Thanks

[sly viper]

Do you have a higher quality image?

[green narwhal]

I can go take a picture

[sly viper]

Thanks (this 2 minute cool down is gonna be the death of me)

[green narwhal]

I managed to find the other piece of the rock

[sly viper]

It looks like a trilobite of sorts probably a Cambrian animal

[green narwhal]

It's also what I'm thinking

[sly viper]

Your best bet is to take it to a palaeontologist and have them identify it (I hate this cooldown)

[green narwhal]

Thanks. Now I just have to find one

[sly viper]

Good luck

[halcyon cobalt]

probably not. we have evidence of other ceratopsians being social so it would be weird if trike wasn’t

[stray saddle]

T Rex size and body. Now... that's an insane build. You will never find another bipedal dino with such a ribcage or jaw. At all. He's an alien lol

[outer tusk]

What is bro yapping about

[halcyon cobalt]

not even glaze tbh

[tame tapir]

This accurate?? For the most part?

[tough parcel]

Yuh however considering the fragmentary nature of Hatz, I wouldn't really mention how long the neck is

[frigid delta]

this condition but on dinosaur hatchling?

[outer tusk]

Is that a kitten with cross eye

[frigid delta]

how accurate was this for Elrhaz Formation?
https://x.com/j_stocky/status/1876521731067871347?t=ZluO_NhNm-1H-W1x1FozxA&s=19

OvO 🍉 C0mms open! (@j_stocky) on X

Elrhaz formation

Twitter · Jan 7, 2025, 6:50 AM

[scenic flame]

it's missing something
https://x.com/Vividskyguy/status/1876664425459105874

Vividsky (@Vividskyguy) on X

@j_stocky

Twitter · Jan 7, 2025, 4:17 PM

[frigid delta]

REBBACHISAURUS?!

[wraith kindle]

It doesn’t say how heavy the Lurdusaurus is though? Just shows chonk. Funny how the sarco is just no thoughts, lol.

[scenic flame]

no, "Rebbachisaurus"

[wraith kindle]

That looks like a fish?

Could have sworn the paleontology chat slowdown was less? Edit: yea, 2 min, what did you guys do? L9l

[tough parcel]

3rd image

[wraith kindle]

Got covered by the mobile preview on the bottom, didn’t realize it was there.

[scenic flame]

best there is rn, it's based on Randomdino's updated Erlhaz formation size/archosaur chart

[white matrix]

Sinopterus 😍

[wraith kindle]

Funny how the theyre calling the lurdu short, it’s still taller than 6 feet 7 inches and isn’t much shorter than sucho. Unless they meant length.

[tough parcel]

Evidence that's the joke?

[wraith kindle]

What’s the resident sauropod supposed to be? The weight for nigersaurus doesn’t match that one.

[tough parcel]

Proof

[wraith kindle]

I mean what species.

[tough parcel]

And I mean what weight do you have in your mind for Nigersaurus

[wraith kindle]

I’m not saying the weight in the graphic is wrong, just that if the sauropod in the comic is Nigerasaurus, the weight in the comic doesn’t match the graphic.

[tough parcel]

Perhaps it is the adult Nigersaurus...

[halcyon cobalt]

elder indeterminate growth “we will never find the largest individuals” nigersaurus

[wraith kindle]

Did any dinos have indeterminate growth and grew all their lives?

[steady smelt]

Dayum 5.5 tons?

[manic grail]

Nigersaurus is cooked with that small size

[steady rock]

How accurate was 2019 PoT allo?

[ionic crescent]

It has no scales

At first glance head is messed as well

[wraith kindle]

2019 is what, pre-alpha PoT?

[steady rock]

I have no clue, I started playing when lamb released

What's the top 3 ,most inaccurate creatures in PoT?

[ionic crescent]

In order

Kaiwhekea: messed up proportions, musculature and have lips
Pachycephalosaurus: messed up musculature, proportions and have lips instead of beak
Eotriceratops: messed up size, proportions and texture/integument

[steady rock]

I'm surprised thal didn't make that list

[indigo cradle]

Not to mention the invalid species

[steady rock]

I mean, Mira and laten are accurate to what their truly are

[velvet burrow]

When it comes to gameplay laten is probably one of the most inaccurate though

[modest meteor]

They're not trying to be accurate when it comes to gameplay so that doesn't really matter too much

[indigo cradle]

Their models are really good regardless
Except the ones mentioned above
And rex is Kaiju sized

[wraith kindle]

Inaccurate how? Just wondering.

[lusty holly]

wooahh kryptops is miniscule ☠️ mod defo upscaled it

[ionic crescent]

Thal is just the size and probably niche, the others had it worse

And please, don't bring the "strongest bite force in pterosaur" cause they had a bite force equal to a big Chihuahua. So irl would be extremely small game hunter or a 🥜 eater

[indigo cradle]

Real

[warped peak]

Thalasso's bite wasn't much higher than that of a 140 gram bat

[scenic flame]

it was about the same at best, but in most aspects worse than current PoT allo

[steady rock]

Do azdarchids have higher bite forces?

[ionic crescent]

They stab and swallow, so probably not

Why the hell is 2 min cooldown

[lusty holly]

wot is an accurate allo depiction wth is fred

[velvet burrow]

Troodontids are more cursorial and less predatory than dromaeosaurids, with north american troodontids more heavily leaning into omnivory

They turned it into a (relatively) slow and damage oriented ambush predator, arguably what Deinonychus should've been instead

[indigo cradle]

Yas gimme more accurately slow ambush pred raptors like irl

[velvet burrow]

While PoT doesn't try to be accurate with gameplay, none stray from their known niches and physical capabilities as much as laten, deinon and thal

[lusty holly]

whats the most accurate designs then

[indigo cradle]

Stego?

[ionic crescent]

Achillo, Rhamp, Hatzeg (besides neck), TTT, Iggy, Lamb, Alberta, Kentro, Eurhino

[lusty holly]

HAtz???? wasnt it thicker

[velvet burrow]

Hatz has that awful noodle neck

[steady rock]

What should I change

[indigo cradle]

I do appreciate that the herbivores don't have elephant feet, that's pretty good

[lusty holly]

rex bars achillo stego sucho pycno

[small geyser]

Move Rex down one.

[scenic flame]

https://fixupx.com/SirBlameson/status/1674144409947086852

[indigo cradle]

Rex is one of the most complained about, aside from pycno

[tough parcel]

Metri, Cerato, Eurhino, Sty, Allo, Megalania, Pycno, Hatz are all inaccurate

[steady rock]

What's wrong with styraco?

[outer tusk]

Mid

[scenic flame]

knock down; sty, mega, bars and metri by 2

knock down; kentro, rex, hatze, spino, pycno, allo, ano and eurhino by 1

[velvet burrow]

Wait why eurhino

[steady rock]

V2

[tough parcel]

Cause the fossils say otherwise

It's close, but it isn't like TTT or Mira

[scenic flame]

https://x.com/fishboy86164577/status/1711421179477803348
https://x.com/fishboy86164577/status/1711420402910810326
Eurhino's mouth has some issues mainly with having it's cheeks extend too far forward

Tosha (@fishboy86164577) on X

@Riamus01 @HuitzilinF_Art Example of an appropriately posteriorly placed jaw margin:

Twitter · Oct 9, 2023, 4:39 PM

Tosha (@fishboy86164577) on X

@Riamus01 @HuitzilinF_Art They don’t exist. But people will often draw ichthyosaurs with the mouth line terminating where the teeth do. But the jaw musculature is very posteriorly located, behind the jugal (that forms the bottom edge of the eye socket) so the jaw margin should continue down around the eye

Twitter · Oct 9, 2023, 4:36 PM

[indigo cradle]

I feel like pycno should be in its own "horns??" Tier

[tulip stream]

Pycno has like an acurrate sub and then it turns into an accurate carno depiction

[scenic flame]

pycno's more or less on the same level as eurhino, since it being given carno horns for 2 species, aswell as the base sspecies which traditionally is supposed to be the accurate species. This is an issue because carno is several places removed from being pycno's closest relative, which is currently Llukalkan, hence it is overwhelmingly likely to not have carno horns, but wide variety of potential keratin sheaths, hornlets etc as seen in this twitter post
https://x.com/heitoresco/status/1876990367641321506

Heitoresco (@heitoresco) on X

More derived abelisaurids, such as Pycnonemosaurus, are thought to have had keratinous structures on the top of their heads. Keratin can behave in different ways in animals, so I did some experimentation.

Twitter · Jan 8, 2025, 1:52 PM

[indigo cradle]

I like the one that's like pachy pebbles
"Iguana"

[outer tusk]

Iguana is the best one

[scenic flame]

bear in mind microraptor is a stand in for ttt, also this accounts for model accuracy and size accuracy

[indigo cradle]

Well hold on, I'd like to point out how many argue that duck probably wouldn't have feathers, but we allow it cuz it looks great

[tulip stream]

Metri is gonna be stuck in many major issues for a long time

[tacit pine]

Thays pretty cool tbh, looks kinda like how modern animals fight too kinda

[indigo cradle]

Ngl path metri has me preferring JP metri

[outer tusk]

Yep since Sirblameson directly based it on several extant animals

[calm agate]

idk how Achillobator is in the substantial issue section, due to its size alone being a barrier to it being in 'perfectly accurate' it should be in near perfect

tbh there's a good few here I'd shuffle around. Campto should probably be in the substantial issue section for example. Bars being in the perfectly accurate section is also just astounding to me. Sucho should likely not be there due to the modern anatomical shifts it's had too

[steady rock]

Because it's too big?

[velvet burrow]

I'd make a "Kaiwhekea" tier and rank Kaiwhekea below it

[scenic flame]

doesn't is have more minor proportion issues?

[tulip stream]

Yeah it does

[normal fable]

How so?

[open compass]

Kai is invalid? Why it stands as fictional then?

[tulip stream]

Nvm I compared it to a achillobator reference and I could barely see any proportion issues

Nah they mean Kai looks like a fantasy creature cause of its head

[crystal dock]

Kai isn't invalid what 😭

[bronze storm]

What accurate metri look like

[tulip stream]

In game metri is so far off from what metri looked like

[wispy summit]

What's wrong with kentro?

[calm agate]

It does not, I can assure you a modern Achillobator properly restored with Utahraptor would have the proportions of the PoT one

[crystal dock]

Shouldn't Achillo already be stored with Utah as reference since they're pretty closely related?

[stable sun]

We have a very short and very robust cervical

[calm agate]

Correct, Utah and Achillo tend to come out as sister taxa, though in reality that's probably just due to a massive lack of data over anything else, but at current you restore one with the other

[steady rock]

Did Mira loose its fight to stay valid?

[crystal dock]

Debatable

[steady rock]

How accurate is old alio?

[tulip stream]

How complete even is Utah raptor?

[scenic flame]

I've not been able to find a skeletal that matches it really good, it's why it's more of an uncertainty

[crystal dock]

Nanotyrannus

[tulip stream]

Someone said achillo uses Scott Hartman skeletal

[scenic flame]

scott has a skeletal for achillo?

[crystal dock]

Utahraptor:

[tulip stream]

Yeah

[sudden wind]

Conca has several issues though.

[umbral kite]

guys y would a megasaurpod have a herd that would be a lot of mouth to feed

[scenic flame]

oh

[stable sun]

Added the new Sauropodomorph to my phylogeny tree of Sauropodomorpha

[final anchor]

I think it’s the same reason why things like elephants, bison, water buffalo and similar herbivores live in herds. It’s a safety in numbers thing! Living in a large herd with others of your species ensures your own safety and gives more protection to infants.

It could also be like how horses have a herd of mates with one stallion for mating purposes.

All in all it’s most likely for safety reasons

[umbral kite]

yea but saurpod are like 20x bigger than that i could see a amp or a amarg doing that but thing like braco or argent would be like 400 tons of food per child

[patent mist]

Sauropods are built to be extremely energy efficient.

[umbral kite]

Also y didnt mapu just attack the stomach of argent like there sides that very vulnerable

[sudden wind]

Here my accuracy list.

Achillo is accurate IF you keep it as sister to Utahraptor, but given the lack of data that's prob the best your can do with how fragmentary it is.

I also didn't account for size, just the model.

[primal ice]

Achillo is good but not accurate due to size

[crystal dock]

Wdym we don't have direct evidence of mapusaurus being showcased how they hunt argentinosaurus unless you mean Planet Dinosaurs 😭

[patent mist]

Pretty sure deinon is accurate or atleast close

[primal ice]

Ya that's accurate deinon is that skeletal

[umbral kite]

But do think a pair of trex could bet a argent

[scenic flame]

to ensure no one gets confused later on, this is deinonychus

[stable sun]

Argentinosaurus was literally 80 tonnes

[scenic flame]

those are terrible areas to attack, when it comes to sauropods the caudofemoralis muscle around the thigh to the base of the tail is the main area predators would attack

[primal ice]

They went able to take arg but an adolescent or baby they would probably hunt If they hunted in packs but some were silly enough to probably take one

[ionic sierra]

can sombody show me a accurate T.rex

[umbral kite]

I honestly thought it was bigger

[stable sun]

That is not Argentinosaurus though

[calm agate]

The classic

[scenic flame]

... sauropods in general?

[compact leaf]

moments before being launched into orbit by the tail

[tough parcel]

Why did the sauropod have a major artery in carcharodontosaur biting range? Are they stupid?

[sudden wind]

There is something that always feel weird about all Deinonychus depiction in this game (Deino got 2 TLC so far).

What always bugs me is the head and the tail, even on this new model.

[stable sun]

The size of Argentinosaurus is crazy

[primal ice]

Said to be best accurate reconstruct of a trex this is sue

[umbral kite]

Nah see a trex could bite the leg will the other one destracat it and then break it leg maybe a back leg or if lucky the front leg

[sudden wind]

The head looks too long and not deep enough, it lacks some bulk.

[compact leaf]

assuming the sauropod even lets either of them get that close, I mean it can still kick

[umbral kite]

yea but the rex could bite the leg and break it if luckyor could try to break one of it leg and push it over

[scenic flame]

https://tenor.com/view/leather-lounge-chair-outdoor-swing-rattan-gif-26849827

[primal ice]

One prove that tyrannosaurids hunted sauropod was tarbosaurs but we know they were pack hunters so 3 or 4 tarbosaurs had hunted sauropod bye theory but never proven

[sudden wind]

What sort of evidences are there that support group hunting in Tarbosaurus?

[tough parcel]

The 70 Tarbosaurus bonebed obviously

[compact leaf]

definite agree here btw, the tail bugs me too

[stable sun]

rex them proceeds to get kicked in its face

[scenic flame]

none, we only know that it likely hunted sauropods in som capacity, otherwise it's more Armchair Palaeontology

[umbral kite]

Sry but im dinoist toward torvosaurus

[sudden wind]

That's what I thought.

I love my 2 minutes cool down in paleochat.

[primal ice]

Due saying rex hunted in groups then is possible that tyrannosaurids hunted in groups

[final anchor]

I’m sorry but what is armchair palaeontology? Not in a rude way I’m just genuinely asking cause I’ve been watching this for a bit and seen it thrown around once or twice

[ionic sierra]

wow then the t.rex we have in game loks like a baby compared to sue

[scenic flame]

I kinda just came up with it as an analogy to 'armchair general', in where someone with no experience of what they speaking of asserts an easy solution that doesn't really have a basis in reality, such as the above explanations of exactly how tyrannosaurus would second by second take down argentinosaurus phased as if it's a proven or even somehat supported arguement, when such a detail hunting strategdy explaination is flat out impossible outside reasonable speculation

[sudden wind]

There isn't evidences for T.rex and if there were it would not necessarily say that Tarbosaurus was also hunting in groups. That'd be similar to say something like "all hyenas are hunting in groups" when they are not. Though hyenas have vastly different ecologies between the different species so that may not be that much of a good analogy.

Safest hypothesis is that we don't know. There are chances they possibly did but nothing suggests so.

[final anchor]

Oh okay! Thank you!

[tulip stream]

I think we need a time machine gang

[scenic flame]

exactly.

there is no evidence stating tarbosaurus definitely hunted in packs.

there is no evidence that a time traveling, continent hopping Tyrannosaurus would specifically take down an argentinosaurus by hypnotising it to stop it from fighting back, leaving it's legs vulnerable to the tyrannosaurus to gradually shimmy it's jaws around the very wide leg and strip off enough flesh to be actually able to break the massive fibula or tibia.

also to be clear, I'm specifically calling attention to the fact that attacking the lower half of the legs directly is exceptionally dangerous due to how flexible and powerful sauropod back limbs are

and that such specific break downs of hunting strategy should not be phrased as fact

[sudden wind]

Inferring special behaviors on non avian dinosaurs is something extremely hard because they aren't there anymore.
Some exceptional fossils sites are bone beds and provide insight into this part of their ecology. How to interpret these bone beds however is another story : you first need to determine how thick/old is the strata and if the fossils are first tightly close together (which would suggest they are from the same age so they probably died together). You need to determine if the various individuals preserved died together or not. There also is the possibility of natural disasters that move aways bodies and transport them to deposits, creating a fake accumulation.

Footprints can also help but then these can simply be occasional meetings like predators following a prey, potentially and old or weakened animal.
If the footprints were close together and side by side there may be chances that these animals were regularly hanging out as this is mostly seen in predators with more complex social behaviors than mobbing as it helps to create stronger bounds (that's observed in many extant species today).

Evidences of social dinosaurs exist (even antagonistic interactions are considered social within a specie), but that does not make the rule for all Dinosaurians just like how all mammals aren't necessarily social. You also need to define what you are considering social and to which degree.

[tough parcel]

Sue was found in a bonebed with 2 younger individuals And a Nanotyrannus

[scenic flame]

to add to the last point, Tigers and Lions are in the same genus, Panthera

[stiff osprey]

Sue was found in the same locality as two younger individuals (one of which was the Nanotyrannus - it was 3 tyrannosaurs total, not 4)

But we don't know if they were buried at the same time

[compact leaf]

don’t listen to random he just hates fun sarcasm random don’t hurt me

[tough parcel]

I thought the excerpt posted by TableSeating listed a sub-adult, juvenile, and Nanotyrannus? Unless the juvenile was technically split into two accidentally

[steady rock]

How big would nanotyrannus reach?

[sudden wind]

Then there is a who'e other different side of biology that's biostatistics which allows you to actually give strong and solid conclusions about things you observe. With living animals, you can repeat said observations and collect those data extremely easily and possibly calculate a frequency for social interactions. When it comes to birds it can be preening one another, chattng, flying in flocks, foraging together etc.

When it comes to palaeontology your sample size is astonishingly small and so conclusions about extinct taxa are much harder to make. Imo phylogenetic backtracking isn't a strong and good option to make such conclusions as we are literally dealing with entire extinct groups that filled various niches that don't have much analogs today.

[scenic flame]

every time I see "Nanotyrannus" mentioned the JFC narrorator forces their way into my mind and repeats "T-rex" and "Nanotyrannus" in random order over and over again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFsXCz1h3iU
0:02 - 0:04 & 16:34 - 16:35 over and over and over and over again IN MY HEAD

[spare knot]

I have an interesting question, have we seen any jaws similar to parrot jaws in paleontology? What I mean by that is an unfused maxilla with a hinge bone to allow for up and down movement of the top jaw

[stiff osprey]

They assumed it was three because surely the nano-looking material could not belong to a juvenile T.rex, even though there wasn't overlap between them

[scenic flame]

fish

[spare knot]

I should have specified that I meant reptiles in paleontology considering parrots are descendants of them

[sudden wind]

[scenic flame]

[candid magnet]

Oviraptor maybe had a skull like that

[steady rock]

Is it true a juvie Rex had a bite force comparable to acro?

[spare knot]

considering we have a skull of oviraptor that shows a fused maxilla i doubt that

[candid magnet]

Well I'm outta guesses than.

[stiff osprey]

Many theropods had mobility in their cranial joints, but unlike parrots, there was no musculature specifically evolved to move the bones around. They just had give to better absorb impacts or to expand when swallowing large items

[fossil ingot]

Nanotyrannus mention=Me Happy

[spare knot]

makes me question where on the evolutionary tree they adapted like that, I'm itching to know

its such a specialized adaptation

[kindred night]

My hot take is without very very rare and exceptional fossils (Centrosaurus mass death assembalage, Fighting Dinosaurs, nesting Citipati) any hypotheses about dinosaur behavior or ecology are fundamentally untestable. Like sure we can say T.rex was a big predator but that's about it. But that's one of my issues with the Field overall.

[spare knot]

https://www.jstor.org/stable/20491039 found a really interesting paper about cranial mobility in dinosaurs if anyone was also curious

apparently its criminally under studied

this paper is interesting too

[sudden wind]

The only thing that can really help are isotope analysis that give some clues to the climatic conditions and diets. Then you can also possibly suggest some stuffs about their ecologies thanks to comparative anatomy and observation of analogous structures.

[crystal dock]

Oh damnit did I miss something important 😭

[light osprey]

3,850 millimetres I reckon

[stiff osprey]

Cubic?

[round hedge]

I just rewatched Fa3 and Fa5 (Flash arena)

And i just realised how innacurate they are

But flash arena 5 actually annoys me quite a lot

Cera (the horned devil from the river of death) is a certain pachycephalosaurid, and when i looked it up, She (idk its gender but i think that it's a female) is a stygimoloch spinifer, wich makes no sense seeing how big she was next to a quetzalcoatlus and especially to Mega the megaraptor. Irl a stygimoloch spinifer would only be a bit smaller than a pachycephalosaurus (,bc styggies are juvi pachies) and guess what, pachy on average weighs more than 2 Times less than a megaraptor, now imagine a slightly smaller, horned version face a 23-25 foot long, 8 foot tall, ~1 ton theropod with nearly 16 inch claws...

So yeah, don't take what i said seriously, i know it's just an animation made for entertainment and not for accuracy, but i just wanted to get this out

[velvet burrow]

Herrerasaurus?

[steady smelt]

Any cerato speed estimates?

[stiff osprey]

most theropods ran between 30-40 kmh so cerato is probably near the upper end of that

[steady smelt]

36kmh? Something like that? And also conca and dilo i heard 40-45kmh

[stiff osprey]

from Larramendi's 2019 book:
Ceratosaurus 36 kmh
Concavenator 43 kmh
Dilophosaurus 46 kmh

[steady smelt]

Ty. A question ive got conca is 5.8meters in length and in ur dilo skeletal dilo is 7.30 meters and from what i heard concas gdi is 605 kg and dilo is 670 kg how's that possible despite dilo being 1.50 meters longer?

[stiff osprey]

Dilo is basically a snake on legs, it may be longer but Concavenator is both deeper and wider

[steady smelt]

Cool but still dilo is ever so slightly heavier right?

And also that means dilo is extremely light for how massive It is

[stiff osprey]

well, massive is a measure of mass, so you can't be light for your mass (unless you live on a different planet). but yes, Dilo is very light for its length

[steady smelt]

K cool and Who could reallisticly win a fight? Bc i heard dilo has quite a nasty bite

[crystal dock]

Ew AVA

[stiff osprey]

usually the larger predator wins regardless of anatomy. but in this case the size difference is small enough that it seems like a fair fight, given Dilophosaurus has relatively weaker jaws

[steady smelt]

K im gonna stop bothering you,Ty.

[pliant cedar]

dilo had quite powerful forelimbs no?

[steady rock]

i have a question, what falls under AVA? like, would asking how devenversaurus was survivng trex AVA? would asking who would win between a megalodon and livy pod be ava?

[stiff osprey]

both are technically AVA, but it's not considered a bad thing if the two animals actually coexisted

[steady rock]

oh alr, if devenversaurus was attacked directly by a trex ( like, it wasnt able to hide/get away from it ), how would it be defending itself? if im right its like so much smaller then a anky

its getting drop kicked 😭

[stiff osprey]

That denver is undersized, it's smaller than anky but surely not by that much

[polar scroll]

where´s T.Horridus? (other trike species)

[steady rock]

idk i didnt make it

[sudden wind]

Some animals just rely on not being found/seen by the local predator to survive. Still I think that it could probably hunker down and just let itself laid on the ground trying its best to not be flipped over/bitten. Ankylosaur body plan is sort of like a giant barrel, you cannot really take a good grip on it with jaws.

Still, it could possibly use its tail or shoulder spikes to deter a rex.

Also yeah this Denver is too small.
Skeletal by Get Away Trike, scale bar is 1 meter.

[ruby halo]

Whys the denver so small lol

[steady rock]

also, do nodasaurids and stegosaurids sink like anyklosaurids?

[polar scroll]

what.

[sudden wind]

"Nodosaurs" probably are bad swimmers but iirc their buoyancy test is better than that Ankylosaurids as they lack tail clubs.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323036141_A_'bloat-and-float'_taphonomic_model_best_explains_the_upside-down_preservation_of_ankylosaurs

[steady rock]

what? is it not a valid questions? i know ankylosaurids sink so i just wanna know abt the rest of Thyreophora

[ruby halo]

They didn’t get your question it seems

[polar scroll]

oh,so ankylosaurids would sink in the water? if they went too deep?

[steady rock]

yes

[scenic flame]

given the decent (i think it's recent anyway) paper about how much energy Ankylosaur armour can withstand I feel ***especially ***in the case of Edmontonia they may be just ramming into predators since there is evidence to suggest nodosaur were kind of just rugby tackling each other full force since their armour allowed them to be pretty reckless with regards to injury, combined with being so short and so heavy for their dimensions, large carnivores would have a real risk of serious leg injuries from an aggressive Nodosaur.
That's my hypothesis anyway.

[tough parcel]

The Acrocanthosaurus when it hears "TEN-HUT"

[polar scroll]

damn,ig submarine anky was possible back in the day.

[scenic flame]

I personally alos feel Edmontonia more than any other Nodosaur is suited to such inter and intra-specific combat with how the spiked osteoderms on it's shoulders are faced and that one iconic double pronged osteoderm just infront of the shoulder

[sudden wind]

That's a valid hypothesis. Defensive behaviors can come from how some animals actually use their social signaling organs like antlers or horns (though lot of different extant animals don't or do it in some extreme circumstances).
However I don't see these things going fast, though even a good 15-20kmh isn't nothing to complain about as such animal tbf. To check how much forces they threw at each other's we could take a look at stress marks to see if they just were rubbing or going full blow with a charge (I doubt).

[scenic flame]

I mean they don't need to go fast if the end goal is to drive the predator away, and I would assume they wouldn't need to go faster than 20km/h for a charge to be potentially devestating, since if they hit a Tyrannosaur, they're going to hit the lower to mid leg, which if injured would be devestating to a predator

[drifting condor]

Do we have any proof that iggy could grow bigger than 4 tons?

[sudden wind]

That's if they did charge at all even against each other, which I don't have information about that (and hope it isn't just based on vibes and art depictions).

[fluid inlet]

All I see are Magnapaulia victims

[steady rock]

edmonto, toro, trike, rex, anky and maybe even denver solo it

[sudden wind]

Yes, they could grow 4.01 tons!

That's just to say that you're dealing with extinct animals. Sure there are median and average sizes, but you can have outliers. Still that doesn't mean there are 10 tons Iguanodon out there, just that saying X animal is X size isn't very conclusive on how large these guys were.
I don't know how much specimens we have but if several mature specimen found were roughly the same size at 4 tons, there may be a possibility that could be the average mature specimen.

[scenic flame]

jim kirkland believes it to be very likely citing many nodosaurs have domed (not as extreme as pachycephalosaurids) skulls and were generally built for it, I also think they could have shoulder tackled each other, where more might glace each other abit I feel Edmontonia specifically may have evolved the pronged, bifurcated front pointing osteoderms for helping it to interlock with rivals.

I think it would generally be better for ramming than ceratopsians even since you're not worried about neck or head injuries, and the osteoderms that would be involved are alot more stout combined with the fact that they're osteoderms have more give in a charge and or shoving match

[lusty holly]

Anyone know the full ecosystem where tyrannosaurs mcraensis was from

[scenic flame]

I feel particularly strongly about this since a Gorgosaurus here as an example in my opinion wouldn't be in a great position to try and counter attack a charging nodosaur due to the very awkward dimensions and height of Edmontonia on top of it's armour. Which I feel in nature would mean Nodosaur are generally avoided because they're a pain in the ass to take down

[stable sun]

There's specimens suggest 5 t or higher (NHMUK R2502, NHMUK R2510). Plus two unfigured 19th century specimens which suggest 10 t but that's questionable since like 5 dindoaurs were known at that time.

[sudden wind]

Then I have some questions : how does their shoulder blade (unless the armor does indeed absorb very well impacts on precise points, still imma wait for the publication to read it and see their method and discussion) can handle such stress ; how come they aren't thick plates or some sort or large bublous structures if they were ramming one another. I don't see these animals rushing to one another front to front to the interlock with their shoulders.

Maybe that's just me having the wrong idea of "ramming" as I imagine this being something goats do, with strong impacts and important momentum. I can however possibly imagine some behaviors more akin to gazelles, antelopes and cervids when they are using their horns or antlers.

[fluid inlet]

The question is, where does perucetus fit into this conversation

[sudden wind]

Grogo is such peak Tyrannosaur. Also yeah Denver is Def quite small for its contemporaries.

Also here is what I imagine Nodosaurs maybe doing :
https://youtu.be/4nMGZomlfKo?si=YIEC-3jhhBkpxgj2
https://youtu.be/-xqmBYJUlAY?si=8URskvqMsWzPafCW

It's totally possible I may be underestimating them. If there are publications about their shoulder osteoderms function let me know 🙏

[scenic flame]

https://bioone.org/journals/acta-palaeontologica-polonica/volume-55/issue-2/app.2009.0103/Function-and-Evolution-of-Ankylosaur-Dermal-Armor/10.4202/app.2009.0103.full osteoderm paper

in regard to mountian goats, I think it should be noted that their protection is more extreme since they're using their skulls for combat, I am under the assumption there are a ton of animal which run into each other or otherwise bash each other with great force on the rest of the body without particularly specialized anatomy because it's far, far safer.

When I imagine nodosaurs ramming eachother, I imagine something with not a whole lot of speed or run up, just generally trying to overpower the opponent.

[drifting condor]

So 5t is maximum?

[stable sun]

No I said 5 t or higher, one of these specimens is like 8 t

[sudden wind]

Finished reading so yeah they got thick big resistant osteoderms with collagen fibers aligned that helps to strengthen the structure even more.

Though would be fun to have a larger sample based on current Ankylosaurian taxonomy as much has changed since 2010 so it could help to recheck the evolutionary routes of Ankylosaurs osteoderms.

[frigid delta]

none
it's already got cooked

[drifting condor]

https://tenor.com/view/zoro-miles-morales-miles-shocked-surprise-gif-13646668700392851337

8 TONS?!?

[storm merlin]

And I’ve been naming it grippy boy in ark the entire time 😭

[crystal dock]

What does that have to do with it

[storm merlin]

Cause I thought it was like a ton at best not a complete unit

[crystal dock]

But the word "grippy" doesn't mean anything relating to size???? 😭

[zealous ravine]

There was a paper about how much force they could take actually. I forget the exact number but I believe it was found that they may be able to take a car hitting them. Though that’s very vague and idk how accurate it is so grain of salt as always

Personally I like the idea that they were more shoving matches that anything else, it seems to fit with the osteoderms in more derived species being forward faces

[storm merlin]

The hands look grippy

[stable sun]

Iguanodon was massive what do you mean a ton at best

[tough parcel]

In ARK

I feel that's an important part

[scenic flame]

yeah, ark's iggy is ass

[flat pond]

Denversaurus my beloved

[jagged trellis]

ark iggy asks for powder...but for all of the year vs winter

[storm merlin]

Look at those grippers

[wraith kindle]

Did they stick deer hooves on that? The fingers look less like fingers and more like hooves.

[wraith kindle]

Caveat here, a car going at what speed? At some point its going to suffer massive internal trauma.

[light osprey]

The cunning Bugatti Chiron vs the indomitable ankylosaur

[wraith kindle]

How about a pinto? One of the worst designed cars ever safety wise (maybe excepting the early ones)

[hallow spear]

Stegosaurs dont sink

[halcyon cobalt]

stegosaurs are just the superior thyreophorens tbh

[tough parcel]

You're right, they stink actually

[warped peak]

None of the portrayal here are overly good

[tough parcel]

Bro just called the Mark Witton Tarbosaurus not good...

[topaz crater]

Good message bad output 💔💔

[stiff osprey]

I meam the emoji is not showing an emotion any human being would actually show

So maybe those aren't supposed to be good idk

[outer tusk]

Would something like this be plausible

[white matrix]

I need help I got into an argument with a TikTok streamer cause I asked his favourite dinosaur and he said pterodactyl and I said it wasn’t a dinosaur it was a pterosaur

[tough parcel]

Just run, run away

[outer tusk]

RUN

[drifting condor]

https://tenor.com/view/ninja-any-haircut-recommendations-low-taper-fade-you-know-what-else-is-massive-gif-3708438262570242561

[velvet burrow]

I would've ran the moment he said "tiktok streamer"

[lavish frigate]

Mark witton art called bad. Kneecap privileges revoked

[fluid inlet]

magnapaulia victims above

[warped peak]

Not overly good =/= Bad

And he's not exactly the perfect artist for theropods admittedly. I say that while subscribed to his Patreon FYI

[halcyon cobalt]

slight disagreement = life long resentment smh

[distant mauve]

Question are there any halfway decent skeletals of jobaria besides this one? Was curious

[compact leaf]

despite how well preserved it is that’s about as good as it gets, the thing needs a rediscription

[distant mauve]

Good to know heard the face wasn't the best on this skeletal so was curious 🤔

[fluid inlet]

A very complete sauropod and this is my first time hearing about it? Paleontologist need to do better https://x.com/beagliam/status/1789153580223525108?s=46

Liam Power (@Beagliam) on X

Jobaria tiguidensis skeletal. A very complete sauropod with a description that makes it hard for skeletal makers to capitalize on the great skeletons. This animal was massive not just for its time, but on an absolute scale. #sauropod #FossilFriday

Twitter · May 11, 2024, 4:40 AM

[warped peak]

Is Alierasaurus actually larger than Cotylorynchus?

[stiff osprey]

unlikely, Coty's larger species is enormous

the paper actually describes it as comparable in size to coty

[fluid inlet]

Had this saved on my phone lol

[sly viper]

Is siats a carcharodontosaur or a megaraptor

[fluid inlet]

It’s a dinosaur

[keen mauve]

came back in this channel and this is the first thing i see. god damn brutal xD

[stable sun]

Carcharodontosaur

[sly viper]

What's the height of argentinosaurus (head to toe)

[frigid delta]

iirc 15 meter

[robust crane]

why aren’t platypuses and echidnas synapsids?

and why is the african forest elephant loxonta cyclotis not palaeoloxodon cyclotis?

[tulip stream]

They are synapsids

[robust crane]

are there any proof?

[tulip stream]

All mammals are synapsids

[halcyon cobalt]

because the African forest elephant isn’t in the genus palaeoloxodon?

[stable sun]

Kind of hard do tell as it has no cervicals whatsoever but likely about 16 m

[robust crane]

it just doesn’t make any sense they say the african forest elephant is more related to p.antiquus but it’s in the genus loxodonta

[wary junco]

I think you're getting confused... P. antiquus is a result of reticulate evolution, we've got evidence of introgression from L. cyclotis into what would become P. antiquus but that doesn't mean those two are more closely related than the two Loxodonta species

[robust crane]

is brontosaurus still valid?

[frigid delta]

who said it wasn't???

[robust crane]

isn’t brontosaurus just a apatosaurus with a camarasaurus head?

[halcyon cobalt]

nah

[frigid delta]

no???

[ashen wedge]

Which Azhdarchid is which?

[stable sun]

This was never the case. This was only the case for a reconstructed mount of Brontosaurus because we didn't have a Brontosaurus skull. Species of this genus were always valid.

Brontosaurus was for a long time thought to be a species within the genus Apatosaurus (but this has nothing to do with its skull), however in 2015 it has been shown to be valid genus too. This was literally 9 years ago.

[stable sun]

almost everyone between 1903 and 2015 pretty much

[stable sun]

Has been since 2015

[steady rock]

What's reticulate evolution? /genq

[wary junco]

To put it in simple terms, a reticulation event is where two lineages come together to create a third lineage that's distinct from the two parents... so hybrid speciation is an example of reticulate evolution, where hybrid "intermediate" forms between two species go on to become their own species (more common in plants than animals but it does still happen quite a lot)

to put it in the context of this example, the ancestor of Paleoloxodon antiquus was a taxon that diverged before the most basal members of Loxodonta, but still interacted with Loxodonta cyclotis at some point in its evolutionary history (also mammoth but I'll just talk about forest elephants to keep this example simple). Genetic material was introgressed from L. cyclotis into this taxon, and Paleoloxodon antiquus is the resulting species from the union of L. cyclotis and the ancestral Paleoloxodon taxon.

as I said I've slightly simplified the explanation as there is also admixture from Mammuthus into the lineage, P. antiquus gets around 60% of its nuclear genome from the ancestral Paleoloxodon taxon, ~36% from the forest elephant and ~8% from Mammuthus, which is why it's still in the genus Paleoloxodon and not Loxodonta @robust crane

[steady rock]

So its when two separate species come together to make a new species?

[robust crane]

it’s kinda like cichlids, right?

[wary junco]

Yeah cichlids are another example of a group where reticulate evolution is rife

[robust crane]

also why do palaeoloxodons have asian elephant shaped head when they share more dna or something with african forest elephants

[steady rock]

A underrated real life hybrid is a beluga and a narwhal, a narluga

[halcyon cobalt]

could modern humans be an example of reticulate evolution, with the hybridisation with other human species?

[robust crane]

the closest species to us, the neanderthals are long gone

[halcyon cobalt]

and they hybridised with us, which is why modern humans have components of Neanderthal DNA

[robust crane]

but we didn’t became another species

[frigid delta]

Homunculus has left the chat
||/j||

[wary junco]

Yeah, the general definition is that it's the partial merging of two lineages to form a third distinct lineage. It's worth noting that this is talking at species level, but it can also go down to organelle or gene level too. I'm currently doing a PhD on the evolution of Rhododendron where there is a LOT of hybrid speciation going on, and it's interesting (and sad) that there's a species called Rhododendron publicostatum that is literally being hybridised of existence. Introgression from other species is basically wiping out the ancestral R. publicostatum genome as hybrid plants are inheriting more and more genes from the other parent species.

[robust crane]

mr @wary junco can you answer this question?

[wary junco]

Yeah reticulate evolution played a huge part in our evolutionary history, we're almost a textbook example for it

[robust crane]

what’s that?

[frigid delta]

now i'm curious abt this...

[wary junco]

I can't claim to be an expert on elephant anatomy, so I couldn't tell you exactly why, but it'll be dependent on what genes were introgressed from L. cyclotis into P. antiquus. Having 36% forest elephant genome doesn't mean it'll automatically look 36% more like a forest elephant, it might be that the genes inherited were to do with some internal physiology and not outward appearance at all (this is me just making up an example btw, don't take this as fact haha)

[steady rock]

Ther3s a debate In Paleo chat over thal's force over how strong it would be, anyone got anything?

[warped peak]

150 newtons

[steady rock]

Is it stronger then a humans?

[halcyon cobalt]

that’s like the same as this one bat I forgot the name of

[steady rock]

Jamaican fruit bat?

Is this chart accurate btw?

[warped peak]

No.

[indigo cradle]

This reminds me of something I heard in a Paleo cast I never got elaboration on
They made a joke that "turtles evolved twice" like... What for real?

[manic grail]

Chat who and why do you think would win irl suchomimus or tarbosaurus?

[wraith kindle]

What even is reticulate evolution? First I’ve heard of that term.

[steady rock]

He explained it earlier

[wraith kindle]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placodontia These maybe? They resemble turtles with the armor and shape.

[indigo cradle]

No no it was about the shells, the best I got from someone was that they evolved the shells one at a time, but it didn't explain the "turtles evolved twice" comment, just hoping a worker could maybe elaborate more

[umbral kite]

it looks lkke a fat croc with a very small snout

[wary junco]

#paleontology message

[ionic crescent]

My small 40 cm dog bites twice as hard than thal 🗿

And a tegu bites ten time harder than a thalasso, and it's 60-80 cm long

[steady rock]

If only you were at backer chat when the conversation was being have'd

[silver canopy]

Would you call a baby thylacosmilus a joey or a cub?

[stiff osprey]

depends whether it's in or out of the pouch imo

[candid magnet]

If it's a marsupial I'd say Joey

You have my attention 🫡

[silver canopy]

That's an interesting thought

[stiff osprey]

wombat babies are usually called joeys, quoll babies are called either joeys or pups, and tasmanian devil babies are apparently called imps?

[crystal dock]

I mean the name fit

[candid magnet]

I agree

[kindred night]

For most marsupials I'd just default to joeys. Cub is reserved pretty heavily for carnivorans imo.

[wraith kindle]

It's actually more closely related to modern lizards and turtles than to crocs, and that skeleton is one of the early members of the group.

[scenic flame]

and lost children

[opaque kayak]

Can anyone tell me what are these checkermarks at Edmonto's verts?

[stiff osprey]

ossified tendons

[opaque kayak]

Huh, are those unique to edmontosaurus?

Woah

[stiff osprey]

Nah they happen in a lot of ornithischians, people just don't bother drawing them for obvious reasons

[opaque kayak]

Would Edmonto haveUncinate processes as well?, Also 2 min type sucks

[wraith kindle]

No, some hadrosaurs have them, not sure all of them do. I think there's some dinos that use them to stiffen the tail? I dunno.

Something certainly took a bite out of it's back.

@stiff osprey Given that they'd affect how the animal moves, you'd think it would be important? I've noticed that sometimes the gastralia aren't always added.

[stiff osprey]

Skin, internal organs, and muscles would also affect how the animal moves, yet they are not drawn in skeletal reconstructions, because it obscures the view of the bones and their appearance and arrangement is highly speculative. The same is true of ossified tendons

As for gastralia, they aren't present in many ornithischians

[distant mauve]

Are there any good maiasauria skeletals? Been trying to look for one

[thorn grove]

rip ribs

[distant mauve]

Found it werid to see minimal maiasauria skeletals considering

[scenic flame]

considering what...? CONSIDERING WHAT?!?! I MUST KNOW!!

[distant mauve]

Maiasaura is a pretty well known dinosaur in media

[steady rock]

maiasaurua killed my grandma

[thorn grove]

moderately unfortunate

[wraith kindle]

How is that minimal?

[outer tusk]

one good skeletal is all you need!

[fluid inlet]

Maiasauria aka jobaria victim

[umbral kite]

how do we knew a argent or a saurpod would just see and squash because it could

[fluid inlet]

Same reason elephants do

[tall forge]

So many smart people (I try study paleontology)

[clear onyx]

How long is the estimated length for Vasuki indicus? I find 50ft estimates

[steady rock]

https://x.com/Dinoh555/status/1781054058112946280 does this help at all?

Dactylioceras🇵🇸 (@Dinoh555) on X

This IFLScience scale make me laugth
Anyway always took the lower measurements

Twitter · Apr 18, 2024, 8:15 PM

[stiff osprey]

'Largest' snake ever is misleading, vasuki is probably the longest but Titanoboa is insanely wide. Also Malayopython is nowhere near 10 meters

[steady rock]

would titanoboa be the heaviest?

[stiff osprey]

most likely, it is a reticulated python/anaconda situation

[fluid inlet]

Vasuki solos, fish eater ain’t beating the legendary vasuki

[stiff osprey]

even calling it longest is technically wrong because estimates for vasuki range from 10.9-15.2m while titanoboa's range from 12.8-14.3m

[sly viper]

Isn't madtsoia the largest snake? I've heard the dinofax say madtsoia or some other snake was larger than titanoboa

[tranquil quartz]

dinofax

[compact leaf]

trusting dinofax was your first mistake

[stable sun]

Which one is more likely

[iron halo]

real

[sly viper]

Mb he said it was vasuki indicus just rewatched the video

[stiff osprey]

afaik vasuki has longer centra than Titanoboa so it may well be longer

although maybe they are just from a different position in the spine

[stable sun]

Oh okay

[clear onyx]

The largest Mesozoic snake

Maybe, Palaeophis lived during the Mesozoic and idk how big the Mesozoic species are

[stiff osprey]

Not as big as Mads. The big one was Paleocene

[hoary jay]

He fat was spinosaur? Like we made Rex chunkier bc it made more sense but is everything else still shrink wrapped? Is spinosaur bulkier or is he still shrink wrappped?

[opaque kayak]

wut?

[hoary jay]

Like. All dinosaurs were shrink wrapped with next to no muscles or fat storage. But when that’s done it makes things look weird (look at artist rendition of hippo skeleton done like dinosaurs)

So people made Rex chunkier, have more fat and muscles. Did we also do that with spinosaur or other dinosaurs? Or are they still shrink wrapped?

And is shrink wrapping more realistic or less realistic?

[outer tusk]

shrinkwrapping isn't accurate at all cause you're making animal whether recon from an extinct or extent animal into anorexic animal

[velvet burrow]

I hate the damage that hippo meme did

[hoary jay]

In what way

[velvet burrow]

Basically make some people think paleontologists and paleoartists know no sh*t and when reconstructing they just stick skin over the bones.
For starters that practice existed and is severely outdated. Nowadays they use comparative anatomy using the closest living dinosaur relatives (cros, birbs, and to a lesser extent all other reptiles) to figure out the kind of musculature they had and their arrangement. Bones themselves also tell through their shape, size and texture the kind of soft tissue that was attached to them and it's size

[fluid inlet]

Always love pycnemosaurus

[hoary jay]

But how is the hippo meme damaging? Is that not good then?

The hippo reconstruction the way dinosaurs are reconstructed is misinformation?

[tough parcel]

Because it’s misinformation at best and outright lying at worst nowadays because adding to what Manoc said, mammal tissue is different from reptiles

[opaque kayak]

He just explained it. It gives off a idea that paleontologists make up stuff about Dinosaurs, and that we don't know how they looked like at all, as well as them looking very different, while it's just not true

[hoary jay]

No one said that though. You only just said that.

Let me be clear. I’m not arguing I’m just autistic and take things very very very face value. I was confused what they were saying the first place

[tough parcel]

Manoc basically said that though

The hippo meme is just flat wrong because it distills a topic into its bare essence when paleoart has always been informed via observation of skeletal material and living animals. The problem is that unlike modern animals, we could not observe a T.rex doing its own thing so paleoart has needed to evolve based on scientific discoveries

We can actually see this in terms of modern animals when it comes to medieval artist depictions of things like elephants or whales from descriptions then as time went on, artists were able to move past that

[hoary jay]

So you’re saying basically. shrink wrapping is an old thing not a current thing

[tough parcel]

That and it’s ignoring the fact reptiles barely have any notable soft tissue extensions beyond your standard spikes, spines, armor, and fun

No trunks or 10 layers of blubber

[thorn grove]

The hippo meme caused people to make inaccurate assumptions:
-People assumed that paleoartists and paleontologists have no idea what they're doing
-People assumed that Dinosaurs would have been incredibly fat or vastly different looking than what we believe and this spawned a lot of its own inaccurate memes made by people who think they know more than they do

[hoary jay]

I mena that’s kind of true. I mena my crested geckos have crests that flop and have no skeletal stricter under them. But most of it is actually very tightly wrapped around the body.

But also dinosaurs aren’t reptiles. They are avian like

[tough parcel]

Birds are classed as reptiles, just like dinosaurs and crocodiles

[hoary jay]

I don’t care how right it is. That is no way right. How??? They are warm blooded??? They have feathers??? Like I get how they could be but also . NO???

[velvet burrow]

Also birb skin can look "shrink wrapped" under their feathers

[steady rock]

how accurate is this columbian mammoth?

[thorn grove]

Phylogenetically you are a fish.

But even ignoring that, not every dinosaur would have been extremely avian-like even externally. Most ornithischians were mainly scaly and had different respiratory mechanics to saurischians, among other differences.

[steady rock]

i love being a fish

[hoary jay]

Couldn’t we all be brought back to single cells then if you thought that way?

[tough parcel]

No because we are very definitively made up of multiple cells

Also I don’t think they have vertebra

[velvet burrow]

So do dinosaurs
And crocodiles for that matter. They have genes to synthesize feathers (or feather like scales) and adaptations for endothermy that show they come from a warm blooded lineage

[steady rock]

was titanboa a fisher or general aquatic csrnivore that would eat anything it could swallow?

[thorn grove]

"single cell" is a description of a specific physical trait, rather than a lineage of organisms. Some single-celled organisms are more closely related to dinosaurs and to us than they are to some other single-celled organisms

[hoary jay]

Oldest common relative I mean.

Also I know dinosaurs have feathers. Most are avian like

I want to do a croc with feather scales. I think k that would be bad as heck. I curse to much and idk how tot talk when I cant

[hoary jay]

It would act like any other boa would it not? Constricting and killing prey and then swallowing it. Or scavenging

[velvet burrow]

iirc it was more of a fisher

[wraith kindle]

Really? Must have been eating some enormous fish.

[fluid inlet]

@zealous ravine @stiff osprey conc dropped

[zealous ravine]

Lfg!!!!

[frigid delta]

a question from an online friend

[fluid inlet]

Def going yellow

[zealous ravine]

Prolly same but I’m not sure yet tbh

[stiff osprey]

It's so TINY

(Accurate)

[fluid inlet]

I got too many blue dinosaurs I need some diversity

[stiff osprey]

a number of whales if the rex is underwater for some reason

Anyway blue conca looks more realistic, but I literally just got the blue majunga so if I were to get one it'd probably be the yellow

[frigid delta]

true but... on land???
nice joke random

[stiff osprey]

apologies to the elephant fans but rex would easily take down an african elephant without a herd

[sly viper]

Blue whale

[frigid delta]

ON LAND!!!

[stiff osprey]

and nothing living on land is stronger than an african elephant, so 🤷

[sly viper]

Nothing on land can beat a rex

[thorn grove]

I'd say an elephant can win but the rex wins the vast majority of the time

[frigid delta]

so by this logic u just stated...
it's no one then?

[stiff osprey]

what oogma said

[sly viper]

Technically nothing but sometimes an African elephant but the vast majority it's the rex

[frigid delta]

and the point goes to the Rex again

[fluid inlet]

Tech u all wrong Torvosaurus would kill allosaurus Anax

[frigid delta]

out of topic 💔

[zealous ravine]

That’s my exact thought process, tho I’m worried it may be a bit too big, so I may wait for a review, idk

[fluid inlet]

Problem is I want blue brachiosaurus too but I’m go green

[stiff osprey]

Conca is estimated to be 5.8-6m, so this one is on the upper end of the estimate for 1:35, but it fits

I just noticed the tiny little wings

[fluid inlet]

To think you had a good eye , the conc is beautiful tho

[zealous ravine]

I’m concerned more about the height, to my estimation a 1:35 conc would be about as tall as the Majunga, yet it’s a good 2+ cm taller

[fluid inlet]

I think I might buy both blue and yellow

[zealous ravine]

And the length given I believe does not account for the curved tail and neck. I may get it anyways tho as I like conc enough to overlook jt. As long as it’s the same size or smaller than the dilo I’ll be fine

God 2 minute slow mode is really too long lol

[fluid inlet]

It’s stupid, especially because what happens in the game never spills into here.

[thorn grove]

they changed it because of the one spino v rex convo and they never changed it back

[narrow moss]

Oh that makes SO much sense. Dinosaur fans suck a little bit

[thorn grove]

yea, though it wasn't even about them fighting it was just one guy not really making sense about density or something

[fluid inlet]

So they penalize the whole chat? 🤣

[narrow moss]

Treating the server like a kindergarten classroom

[thorn grove]

are they not aware that collective punishment is forbidden by the geneva convention???

[narrow moss]

I don’t think Geneva Convention applies to kindergarten classrooms. Or discord servers

[thorn grove]

well maybe it should 😤

[stiff osprey]

So it's ok to execute prisoners in kindergarten classrooms? 🤔

[thorn grove]

well I would know that from experience

[narrow moss]

I’ve seen it done. Those girls are crazy with the Barbie dolls

[wraith kindle]

You could just ask I guess? Maybe they forgot.

Current convo is going utterly off the rails though.

[thorn grove]

true and true

[fluid inlet]

Shunosaurus vs Anklyosaurus who wins size parity

[thorn grove]

anky easily

[frigid delta]

this doesn't age well 🙂💔

[rugged cobalt]

IS the therizinosaurus a REAL dino discovered by SCIENTISTS or IS it just a FAKE movie species? (idc either way i love it)

[frigid delta]

how is it fake???

[balmy oyster]

I love it when the edmonto fans weep

shantungo enjoyers, RISE UP

let us all praise the ACTUAL giant hadrosaur!! (although edmonto is already a pretty sizeable hadrosaur even for its average size)

[rugged cobalt]

thats the thing. is it a FAKE species made by the creators,animated. or is it a REAL species,found with fossils by scientists?

[indigo cradle]

It's real

[frigid delta]

it's a real specimen???
how come u said it was a fake dino in the first place???

(i'm genuienly confused)

[rugged cobalt]

i didnt say it was fake i was asking if it was. i didnt even know..read my question again please

[fluid inlet]

I’m afraid Jurassic world made it up for the easy money grab.

[indigo cradle]

There's a whole family of dinosaurs named after it

[halcyon cobalt]

new evidence shows that it wasn’t a potentially feathered, large bipedal herbivorous maniraptoran but actually a large burrowing turtle

[balmy oyster]

fortunately it is a real animal and surprisingly JW didn't do too bad of a job for its design

[rugged cobalt]

WOAHHH! awesome :D glad to know that.

[fluid inlet]

All paid actors

[indigo cradle]

Oh real I didn't know

[balmy oyster]

it's a rather big animal at that too, meter bar for scale

[rugged cobalt]

WOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH. imagine if that was real :OOOO i love it so much. those claws can definitely peirce through a skull of a t-rex if given the chance

[tulip dove]

Therizinosaurus claws were rather fragile and would probably break if it tried to stab something

So they could have been used for either foraging or for display afaik

[rugged cobalt]

thats not cool at all

[tulip dove]

The claws couldn't handle stress well

[frigid delta]

WHAT EVEN THEIR SELF DEFENSE?!
or they rather run away and flees?

[chrome condor]

imagine if that was real
what

[stable sun]

Crocodile ancestors were literally warm blooded too

[fluid inlet]

What happened to that blub guy , first scanova and now blub

[ionic crescent]

The what

[frosty atlas]

Their self defence was probably intimidation with their big ol size n claws, most likely sizing stuff up, looking larger etc :0

[stray saddle]

Allosaurus on top of the claw chain, like a pro

Knowing how crazy big and effective it's claws were you would expect for them to do something else besides bleed in game

[stable sun]

That is a phylogeny tree.

[stray saddle]

I know. Just pointing out Allosaurus has the best claws to attack.

[fluid inlet]

This look like it can be a ancestor of the Therizinosaurus

[balmy oyster]

Pretty sure a combined claw stab would allow it to be able to effectively use its claws for defense

I hate the cooldown here why is it 2 minutes long, this is ridiculous

[balmy oyster]

Though I’d imagine this was most likely the case. Intimidation can go a long way with defense

[lavish frigate]

Explaining ichthyosaurs to an alien would be wild. “Yeah so it’s a reptile that took the shape of a dolphin and has a shark tail, and it has the normal amount of vertebrate digits….unless it doesn’t want to. Then it doesn’t.”

[stable sun]

Triassic Therizinosaur

amazing

[rugged cobalt]

what

[stable sun]

you said "imagine if that was real" but it literally is real though

[halcyon cobalt]

I think they meant imagine if that was right in front of me

[patent mist]

They can't really run either. Their thigh movement is arrested like birds according to a paper I remember hearing about a year or two ago. They waddled

[indigo cradle]

Adorable

[halcyon cobalt]

therizinosaurs clearly sequestered toxins in their flesh

[frigid delta]

like a Penguin???

[fossil ingot]

Their size maybe for intimidation?
Largest Theri is still like 5.5 tons
Its also probable Theri lived far away from potential predators (Tarbo).
But Size and intimidation was likely their way

[halcyon cobalt]

the 5 ton therizinosaurus using its size to intimidate a… 5 ton tarbosaurus

[compact leaf]

don’t reply ping me on a message that’s over 2 years old

[halcyon cobalt]

people grow and evolve

[sterile trail]

Opinions on Avhaytum?

[storm heron]

Avhatum kenway

[winged pumice]

Wtfff

[patent mist]

All birds have limited thigh movement

[wraith kindle]

Thing is though that it’s only known from fragmentary leg bones, the whole thing is speculative.

[grizzled ledge]

whats new in the paleontological field today

[wraith kindle]

Trump though…. Assuming that even IS Trump.

[steady rock]

I wanna know your own personal opinions, do you think we'll ever discover a prehistoric that would've been larger then a blue whale?

[thorn grove]

Idk how well substantiated this is, but I believe it’s hypothesized that blue whales are basically pushing the maximum size an animal can be and still have effective oxygen transport through its body.

If that’s true, then I doubt we will. We might find things roughly comparable, but nothing substantially larger.

[wraith kindle]

At least if you’re going by mammalian physiology. A creature of different physiology could get bigger, who knows.

Kind of a ‘life as we know it, or at least Terran life’ caveat.

[steady rock]

I don't know if I'm happy or sad about that, on the one hand it's so cool we live with the largest creature, but on the other hand it's sad we'll never discover anything bigger

[tulip stream]

Man this family was weird

[thorn grove]

I've generally been of the attitude that living with the largest animal ever (to our knowledge) being as unlikely as it is is part of what makes it so cool, but I can understand how it could take the wonder of discovery out of things a bit.

The point about different physiologies is a good one though, perhaps a more avian style lung could allow an even bigger animal- maybe some day we'll find a kaiju sized sauropod (though there are other issues that arise from that lol)

[wraith kindle]

The biggest ones that we know of are small kaiju almost.

[steady smelt]

How heavy is cryo and A.europaeus?

[zealous ravine]

I see what you did there lmao

[tough parcel]

Or did you

[steady rock]

Was alamosaurus the only sauropod of Maastrichtian america?

[grizzled ledge]

peakotherium

[stable sun]

A. europaeus 1.6-1.7 t

[tough parcel]

Named, yes

But there's suspicion there are more that are lumped into Alamosaurus

[stable sun]

No.
There's also the unnamed Rough Run titanosaur TMM 45891 which is different.

[steady smelt]

Is It the smallest Allo especies?

[stiff osprey]

Falcon why are you mad

[steady rock]

Someone put a thumbs up emoji

[stable sun]

Hard to tell due to the limited specimen sample. Allosaurus jimmadseni (up to about 9.5 m) and Allosaurus fragilis (up to 10-10.8 m) were technically larger but we have more specimens for them. So basically unknown.

There's a 4.7 m adult Allosaurus but it is unknown what species it belongs to.

[steady smelt]

K Ty

[steady rock]

Was there any non Macronaria sauropods of cretaceous america?

[tough parcel]

What Quinnz said, they put a thumbs up emoji and performed Nanoallus erasure...