paleontology

[bitter quest]

Sino basically had more meat on it though, also stronger bite force

[river plinth]

Did sorapods have rist spikes?

[bitter quest]

Around the wrist no, at least none we have found

[river plinth]

I think amarga did

[bitter quest]

The wrist no, but a speculative take on it would be interesting

[river plinth]

Oooo ok

So in game amargas claw spikes are speculation?

[bitter quest]

One I think that would more than likely have it if we found one would be some short of ankylosaur

[river plinth]

Oooo

[tough parcel]

Those are thumb spikes, not wrist spikes

And have grounds in real life as a few sauropods/titanosaurs have these

[stiff osprey]

yeah most sauropods have a big (relatively) claw on their thumb, not wrist

[river plinth]

Oh cool

[river plinth]

So does that mean they also

👉

[bitter quest]

More like crush you under its weight but yeah I guess that is correct

[stiff osprey]

Wouldn't really be useful to stab theropods because what theropod is gonna stand in front of a sauropod waiting for it to rear up

[river plinth]

Fair

They probably used them at a earlier point in evolution but they grew not so my useful later on

[stiff osprey]

But they could be used in ritualistic fighting members of the same species

or just like holding onto a tree while they eat

[river plinth]

Oh history loved repeating itself on that neash

I'm surprised some animals today don't have this role 😂

[stiff osprey]

you could add chalicotheres, pandas, therizinosaurs, and gorillas to that as well

herbivores just really want to hold a tree in their hands

[river plinth]

Oh nvm then I completely forgot about those

[light osprey]

Actually the Therizinosaur clearly didn’t use its claw to aid in foraging, as its neck too long. Probably a combat device, utilised to slice up tyrannosaurs who were too dumb to be dissuaded by the mighty Therizinosaur threat display

[river plinth]

They probably dug up grubs and other goodies that hide in mounds or trees to

[light osprey]

True, the herbivore must’ve been looking for protein supplements as well

[river plinth]

Yeah herbivores do love insects

Except gorillas there TERRIFIED of caterpillars

Like I'm not joking they really are it's so funny 😂

[bitter quest]

There was a study that it wasnt strong enough to actually be used for defense, the claws

So the foraging might be not to far off again

[steady rock]

https://tenor.com/view/tyrannosaurus-trex-fighting-dinosaur-gif-17293452

[bitter quest]

Yeah a theri doing that would break it's nails now. only thing I can possibly see that happening if the predator was small

[steady rock]

could it grow back?

[warped peak]

Nail? Yes. Bone core? No.

[bitter quest]

Only thing I could see the bone being broken if a tarbo bites onto it or the theri falls or hits onto something hard

[steady rock]

well, would its bone break if it did that?

[zealous ravine]

Therizinosaurs are actually rlly close to ground sloths ecologically tmk

[zealous ravine]

They couldn’t swing with much force but even a gentle slice would hurt, and dissuade an attack fairly well

[bitter quest]

Well definitely but I meant against something around it's size, the impact will hurt the theri aswell

If it's something smaller it wouldn't have much issue doing so

[warped peak]

Depends. A forwards strike it could probably handle without tremendous risk, but any sideways struggle would be bad

[storm heron]

Its like a fork, effective in a forward strike but both useless and risky when trying to cut or commit to any sideways motion with them.

[sullen cairn]

i think the broader point with theri's claws is less that they outright couldn't be used in any capacity but moreso that there wasn't any significant selective pressure driving them to handle serious mechanical loads given how much poorly they handle stress relative to anything else

[steady smelt]

400 kg for a dilo? Is It that thin?

[stiff osprey]

400kg lighter than cerato, not 400kg total

[frigid delta]

giga is 8.8-10.2 tons, yes?
what abt their length?

[snow python]

12,7-12,8m for holotype, 13,5-13,6m for dentary specimen

[sudden wind]

BRRRRRRRRRRR

[orchid rain]

I totally did not make that

[cloud badger]

I'm just imagining their doing the ark finger wiggle to not break it's nails lol

[cloud badger]

Wait so giga better then rex

[stiff osprey]

Why would it be better

[pliant cedar]

considering the genus tyrannosaurus lasted longer than giganotosaurus that isnt true anyway

[cloud badger]

I meant bigger (autocorrect)

[stiff osprey]

Biggest rex (BHI 6248) is 10.6-11 t

[pliant cedar]

rex is more reliably larger than giga

[stiff osprey]

to be fair that's only because giga has a sample size of 2

But yes at the moment the largest known theropod is rex

[frigid delta]

@cloud badger

[cloud badger]

Wait is this in pounds cause I thought rex was at a 7000kg average
Or is this like the high end estimate

[stiff osprey]

Average is around 7500-8000kg but the largest specimens are 10-11000kg

[frigid delta]

from @pearl briar

[frigid delta]

oh shi wait i forgor their account got hacked
lololol useless ping

[cloud badger]

Unfortunate for that guy
I like the character used for scale
I love how these days they use weird model for scale like TF2 medic or ow junkrat lol

[frigid delta]

yet till nowadays nobody uses Doomguy/Doom Slayer (whatever, they're still the same person anyway) as scales 😔

[cloud badger]

Because he WAYY taller than a human we need a scale for just him

[halcyon cobalt]

everyone just scales the character to 6ft anyways

[hallow spear]

way too much effort

[outer tusk]

curious for galeamopus is a size range of about 7 tonnes okay?

[tough parcel]

I still use them, but I just haven’t had the ability to make more for a while

[calm agate]

This is correct, our model was made alongside the original skeletal Henry did which was before everyone started adding cartilage to things so our Torvo is a bit too short in terms of height. I do have an edit of the JFD model with cartilage but I do not like it for Tall Torvo is an ugly beast and should not be blessed with the light of the sun.

[tough parcel]

What if I like Tall Torvo, will you show him?

[outer tusk]

does this one count

[steady smelt]

That's Gurneyi right?

[outer tusk]

Gurneyi isn't know from anything besides a maxila and tibia

It's tanneri

[steady smelt]

K

[fossil ingot]

Rip

[steady smelt]

How heavy IS Utah?i heard 300-400kg and 1.000+

[outer tusk]

WHAT THE HELL no, utahraptor is 350-500kg

[stone cloak]

anything wrong wit this design?

[steady smelt]

No but It has kinda a weird hump and It has quill knobs on the head

[tough parcel]

Hm

[stray steppe]

Most accurate jw model ever

[scenic flame]

I don't believe we have anything against quills/ feathers on the nape

[scenic flame]

the feet lack enough soft tissue padding

[tough parcel]

The hands also seem incredibly large

[outer tusk]

^ another than that it's a solid nodel

[cloud badger]

I think it's enough it's should be a problem for it only weights 400kg

[scenic flame]

no, we know the amount it had for certain

it's abit distorted etc but it had quite significant foot padding

[tough parcel]

Heh Vivid...these are theme park monsters............

[scenic flame]

https://tenor.com/view/sentinel-prime-megatron-transformers-one-megatron-kills-sentinel-transformers-death-gif-1724581799202972900

how many times must I kill you

[tough parcel]

I think a few more times, I can feel it

[calm agate]

The 'sail' being over the sacrals rather than in front of them, the secondary 'sail' not going far enough down the tail, legs too skinny from the front, arms and hands too large, crests far too prominent.
There's a lot wrong with it but as far as a JP-Style Concavenator it's honestly roughly what I'd want, I'd just move the sail up so it's not directly over the hips is all.
Ah also the fact that it has quills at all is probably not right either, the 'quill knobs' are highly debated to this day and if they are quill knobs then they indicate wing feathers not standalone quills.

[tough parcel]

Clearly the Concavenator would have quill spikes and use them similar to the ninjas of retro-Japan to slice their foes to pieces (I saw it on anime once)

[indigo cradle]

Jwa conc was based off the one in Lockwood Manor, looked more JW

[warped peak]

Hold up

So if those are actual quill knobs, Conc would have wings?

[tough parcel]

Not just Conca

[calm agate]

Possible, however it's worth noting the 'quill knobs' do not look like quill knobs and are not in the place you'd expect quill knobs to be

[warped peak]

I never figured that they be much but I dislike this find

[umbral kite]

guys how do u think dinosaurs fought each other

[outer tusk]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/617794983650656256/1096970217457979423/ConcavenatorFeathered.png?ex=674b12e0&is=6749c160&hm=16b704c9a0402368105162b4b7bad6568edf6506bc9e6eaae1ce95da63ba3ef8&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1440&height=585

[warped peak]

I'm going back to making temnospondyl Gill (filaments), this is heavily Distressing to me.

Assuming they'd be between a fish and an axolotl gill

[wind prairie]

as much as any other animal
I feel like all you ask here are questions with unknowable answers

[outer tusk]

^

[tough parcel]

They asked how

That's fairly knowable to the point it's in their skeleton (Ceratopsian horns, theropod bites, etc)

[warped peak]

I think the only weird one I can think of is Kicking Megaraptors

[tough parcel]

Huh

[cloud badger]

Look at their teeth and skull if their long and thin they don't take much risk
If not they do
Look at the shoulders if they are proportionally big they engage in wrestling ,with long arms adding a bonus to that
If they have strong heads they ram into each other
If they have front legs or arms with enough range they to hit with them they hit with them
If they are able to kick without falling they probably kick
If they posses the ability to bite they bite(whatever it's is herbi or carni)
That's as much info as you can get from looking at something although it's not a guarantee

[indigo cradle]

Long femurs means runner

[cloud breach]

Exact opposite

[indigo cradle]

You're right, Dr Napoli must be a liar then

[umbral kite]

Y u hate rexs

[elfin pulsar]

What the sigma

[deft sigil]

Please remain polite and respectful towards each other and do not provoke or antagonize other users. Refer to our #rules

[umbral kite]

i think large theropod stomped there prey to stop them from moving then Bite them

[zealous ravine]

Hunting methods definitely varied from species to species

[ionic crescent]

When you tell someone a bird relative would have feathers

[snow python]

How are Chilantaisaurus and Datanglong classified?

[umbral kite]

some had feathers not all if them

[cloud badger]

@warped peak It probably rarely did it
It looks stable enough but risky for a front kick kinda like with ostrich
It probably only did back kicks on a regular tho
I see it more of a browler (strong elbows from illustrations I saw )
@umbral kite depends on what length of legs they had not necessarily size so shorter would rather just bite and choke or peck longer legs would definitely stomp medium would do both like secretary bird and cassowary short legs would be like house Sparrows and crows middle would be something like chicken and pigeon (I know they don't look like they do but they are packing those quads)

[umbral kite]

like a trex if just bite something it could kill with one bite but what if like a mircle happened and it survived and it could try to us it weight and stomp it to stop it or to stomp a smaller animal like a lambo and hust did to stop it from moving

[river plinth]

Not possible it's waaay to heavy to do that reliability in hunting especially since it wasn't fast either so not on something like a lambeosaurus

[wraith kindle]

It’d probably shatter its leg if it tried to stomp in the way they do ingame.

[umbral kite]

no it cant stomp it kicks

[river plinth]

Yeah that and there legs are to prepositionally stubby there only a few inches taller than a iguanadon

[river plinth]

To big to kick

[cloud badger]

It may have , weight is not a big factor it's more balance and range
But yeah short legs mean it probably was a choker like a lot of our predators
Just like elephants can stomp and kick but generally won't

[umbral kite]

really can u show me becuase i believe it hilarious

[river plinth]

This is straight up a iguanadon next to scotty I know right 😂

[wraith kindle]

I wouldn’t call them short legged, but they aren’t long legged eithet.

[umbral kite]

also if dinosaur turn in to fossil fuels and that is oil and oil make plastic does that mean my old plastic dinnosaurs where actually reall dinosaur but dead

[river plinth]

More like a proportionally large kiwi 🥝

[wraith kindle]

You have plankton and plants to thank for that. Not dinosaurs.

[cloud badger]

T rex have slightly longer legs but yeah proportionally slightly small lol
They are like under average
Definitely could kick and stomp but why would it do it it's risky and not as rewarding as other methods

[umbral kite]

it could us it to pin thing down

[fluid inlet]

We not running from carnis

We running at them, don’t believe the myths.

[river plinth]

Well there like 10-8 tons and the tail was not stable for standing on unless it's shooing away something like a smaller dinosaur (I don't think they could even stan on 1 leg for long) trying to kick prey they hunted is like a elephant trying to hand stand

[river plinth]

That's just stepping on them or pounce per say predators do it to pray smaller then them all the time if they knocked them over

[wraith kindle]

Thats certainly plausible if its a smaller animal or something knocked down.

[pliant cedar]

yes

[umbral kite]

do u think argent tail was like a wip and if u get hit by it u get knocked back far

[river plinth]

Thinking about it they likely only did such to sertant amounts of prey like they already only got 2 legs to work with leaving your groinds exposed to a attack like that would have been unsafe

[wraith kindle]

Nevermind the knockback, you wouldn’t want to get hit by it at all.

[river plinth]

Argent was the type of dinosaur to just step on you or 1 kick you at that size but yeah tails HURT

[wraith kindle]

Also, ingame physics =/= real world physics.

[cloud badger]

Yes it was like a wip
Tho it did not knock other far
It was more like get hit loose an arm or at least some meat
Just like irl wipes
@river plinth rex didn't have groins but I get what you mean the risk of falling over is certain dangerous it probably prefers wrestling when hunting at a stupidly slow 18km/h
I just imagined it again I think it's so funny how slow rex are

[umbral kite]

it would pin some where like it chest area of it rib crushing it

[wraith kindle]

That’s not the most efficient way of doing it.

[river plinth]

Rex more likely suffocated most of the time considering large dinosaurs themselves have extremely strong bones

[cloud badger]

Neck it goes for neck
Like all predators normally would and should
Why go for ribs who are stronger than neck with a guaranteed kill
It's the strategic I adopted with smilodon when fighting moded argent (it works so well a skilled person could solo it because of attack hut box doest reach there )

[river plinth]

Alot of the large dinosaurs around hell creek were pretty slow to

[cloud badger]

Most big things were slow
But like just imagine the chase bro yet you could outrun it

[river plinth]

Yeah would have been hilarious to watch for me

[cloud badger]

It feels equaly as slow in game lol
Props to the devs for realism

[river plinth]

https://tenor.com/view/abuelo-persigue-tortuga-lento-muy-lento-gif-9237596818686007723

[wraith kindle]

Isn’t rex supposed to be able to top 30 or 45 mph when it wanted to? Probably ran slower most of the time.

[umbral kite]

no 12mph

[river plinth]

No

They'd shatter there shins at the first 2 steps

[wraith kindle]

Not sure where i heard those numbers though. Probably misremembering something.

[umbral kite]

it at best it 10-20mph

who else do u think human should be in path of titan i want to beat a trex with my bear hand

[river plinth]

I'm completely all for that

[wraith kindle]

You’d have to be Superman or One Punch Man to do that.

[cloud badger]

Estimates generally put rex at a 16 to 25km/h
40km/h is the max they can go before breaking there bones (similar to elephants)

[umbral kite]

How do think will win a giant bull trex or human with the undoable human spirit

[river plinth]

If they got a gun there's straight if not good luck buddy

[cloud badger]

Human
The ability to throw rocks accurately is just so op

[umbral kite]

😐 the trex after a dust particle was thrown at it

[cloud badger]

Rocks hit hard no matter the size it'll die from repetitive small wounds after like 3 days or maybe exhaustion or starvation

[umbral kite]

if a rat throw a pebble at u would u die after three days

[pliant cedar]

assuming the trex didnt just run straight at the human and maul them before they had the chance to get their distance

[wraith kindle]

One pebble, no, a thousand, maybe.

[umbral kite]

u can throw a thousand rock one at a time

or even get that many rocks

[cloud badger]

Id probably die if a small gremlin kept throwing pebbles at me like it might be small but it hurt
@pliant cedar yeah no you gotta be really unathletic to get caught by a rex

[pliant cedar]

it could keep up with an average human runner at top speed.
and this doesnt factor in stamina

[cloud badger]

Average human can run at 25km/h that high end rex speed estimates
I heard juvie were faster so them maybe

[river plinth]

I run way faster that 5 or 12mph on a sleeper build just saying

[outer tusk]

what the hell are we talking about

[pliant cedar]

idk, heard about how a human would kill a trex after pelting it with small rocks for several days, not accounting for the fact that trexes can move

[river plinth]

https://tenor.com/view/omg-sega-shaken-shocked-shock-gif-14049163

[fossil ingot]

Thats an Old Rex skeletal
Rex has pretty long Legs actually, Giga has shorter Legs

[umbral kite]

What if the tres just swat the pebble back at u never though if that

[outer tusk]

should just use this rex

[fossil ingot]

Nah, Sue Better

[pliant cedar]

also i doubt a small rock is going to do much to the bulky and dense skull of a trex, if it just charged towards you ur cooked

[river plinth]

I used scotty

[outer tusk]

I know am just saying you should've used a non extremely different specimen like scotty to compared to something like iguanodon

[fossil ingot]

Iggy is also like
Huge

[fossil ingot]

This scotty is better

[fossil ingot]

Like this guy?
Tmk this is a good specimen to argue Rex average size

[fossil ingot]

Rip lol

[cloud breach]

Tbf the 5027 doenst have any cartilage

[umbral kite]

would want to live in the Jurassic or the triassic or cretaceous era in time

[indigo cradle]

None of the above

[fluid inlet]

Knock you back ? At the most it will knock you to whichever side it was swinging to. Something with that much weight would kill you.

[pliant cedar]

cretaceosu

[river plinth]

Oooh ok

[umbral kite]

fine then u get post extinction Cretaceous. For not choosing

[indigo cradle]

I'll be fine
Wrinkly brain and all

[umbral kite]

wait if dinosaurs where dying a lot would that not give some small dinosaur corpses to eat, and that would the land as well

[river plinth]

Yes I think at that time scavengers THRIVED to

[umbral kite]

would u rather get hunted by a pack of 3 utah raptor or 1 quetz

[outer tusk]

1 quetz because quetz can't psychically shallow or eat you

[stiff osprey]

I could easily hide from 1 quetz inside a house

[pliant cedar]

the smaller dinosaurs that survived the intial carnage probably chilld for a few years until the corpses ran out

[pliant cedar]

instead it would bludgeon you to death with its beak, which would probably be more painful

[white matrix]

Hello guys

[umbral kite]

it just bite u breaking something or just ripe u limb from limb

[outer tusk]

what

[umbral kite]

hi

[white matrix]

How's everyone

[pliant cedar]

if it hunted human sized prey it would probably just bludgeon it with its beak till it died, then broke up the pieces with its beak

[stiff osprey]

On the first time trying to bludgeon something it would break its beak

It's 90% air

[umbral kite]

or it could land on u then take it beak to grab ur head or u upper body breaking something

[outer tusk]

english pls

[river plinth]

Shame ppl still think it was smaller than maiasaura or smaller than carnotarus

[pliant cedar]

what would it do then

[outer tusk]

not attack

[pliant cedar]

what did it hunt, in weight class

[umbral kite]

land on u and take it beak to bite u

[stiff osprey]

If it wanted to kill a human, peck you in the gut and wait for you to bleed out

[umbral kite]

or bite ur head

[outer tusk]

it's not biting your head

[stiff osprey]

maybe it could break a human's neck by grabbing the head and shaking but i'm not sure

[umbral kite]

y

[white matrix]

Can I debate here?

[umbral kite]

sure

[outer tusk]

because pecking would just be an easier option rather than trying to actively waste more energy biting

[white matrix]

well look at Maip Size Comparison

[outer tusk]

The cooler maip

[white matrix]

That's Aerosteon

[outer tusk]

it's a joke 😭

[white matrix]

ikr

[umbral kite]

let play game guess the dinosaur from poor adaptation whos this dinosaur

[outer tusk]

Tarbosaurus

[white matrix]

Tarbosaurus, it's too obvious

Guess this Dino

[pliant cedar]

alpkarakush

[umbral kite]

no that tarbosaurus ugly cousin

[zealous ravine]

Fatalis is right, this is the art of Alpkarakush made by Joschua Knuppe for the paper

[white matrix]

Correct

[umbral kite]

no i was talking about the my picture of the wannabe tarbo guess this dino

[white matrix]

Alioramus?

[umbral kite]

no it is a in the tyrannus genus

[white matrix]

Nanotyrannus?

Guess this Dino

[fossil ingot]

Fr(its literally 2-2.5)x Carnos weight

[umbral kite]

Giraffatitan Or apato

[outer tusk]

maiasaura is literally the same weight as carno 😭

[fossil ingot]

The downgrade is crazy

[white matrix]

Nope, it's Lavocatisaurus

[umbral kite]

u sure

[fossil ingot]

Literally(has a Bulkier Torso than Maip therefore its cooler)

[white matrix]

Yes but that picture is Omeisaurus not Lavocatisaurus, Lavocatisaurus is a Rebbachisaurid

[fluid inlet]

Anyone have the size stats for mansourasaurus

[white matrix]

oh really?

[white matrix]

well all of them are Lavocatisaurus except this is a Omeisaurus

[umbral kite]

how many time do u have to spin it neck till the neck breaks

[white matrix]

Bro what?

[umbral kite]

if u spin the dinosaur neck around how mang time would u have to do it for it to break in self defense of course

[outer tusk]

yes both are 2,000kg with maiasaura having a smaller size range

[crystal dock]

@stiff osprey sorry to ping but I tried to draw a giganotosaurus based on Dan's and I was wondering did I do good

[white matrix]

Okay, also can we debate about Dinos more?

[cloud badger]

It could be accurate but I believe he mewed a bit too much
That bottom jaw is really something
Probably looking forward to the meal

[crystal dock]

😭

[white matrix]

I mean can we debate in dms

[tough parcel]

Looks pretty good, though the teeth seem to be too uniform for a living animal but the linework and how it's done is nice

Tho maybe the upper skull could do with some thickening

[outer tusk]

am not in the mood right now

[umbral kite]

Look good u could add morr detail in to it eye or it gums and it teeth but that up to u but look good

[white matrix]

Oh why?

[outer tusk]

am just not in mood right okay

[tough parcel]

Also maybe it's the angle, but the lower jaw seems longer than the upper?

[white matrix]

ok, so are you in a bad mood?

[outer tusk]

no

[white matrix]

alr

[crystal dock]

Yeah maybe idk, I kept looking back and forward on the reference and am just so confused whether the lower jaw looks longer than the upper

[tough parcel]

You can use your pencil or ruler by lining it up with the lower jaw lip and then adjusting it to the upper

[outer tusk]

OH damn I forgot about that

[umbral kite]

us a boxs for the head and add to point and a line connecting the points and then draw the jaws at the points

[crystal dock]

Yeah am not doing all of that but am just gonna fix it anyways

[umbral kite]

just us a box draw to point an line the point up to get the jaw right -_-

[cloud badger]

Just take a ruler and q pencil and make the jaw the same length as the upper part of the mouth

[fluid inlet]

Birds drool , pterosaurs rule.

[wind prairie]

dang bro got shrunk???

[fossil ingot]

Yeah

[umbral kite]

most of them look like aliens

[wind prairie]

ye I thought they said how often lol

[frigid delta]

will there even be a day where random stops shrunks any random dinos at all?

[honest cobalt]

This is awesome!

[wraith kindle]

That looks like a hyena.

[unkempt roost]

That was what i was just about to say

[hardy sentinel]

Which theri is more scientifically accurate? (Don't bring up feathers, they aren't DIRECTLY tied to theri)

[woeful falcon]

one of those looks more like theri despite the lack of feathers

actually I'm questioning why you asked tbh, one of them is Jurassic World

that alone should give you an answer

[hardy sentinel]

I just wanna know if the head shape ended up changing or something, I don't know how much JP wants to double down on being a bad franchise mb

[woeful falcon]

I don't believe we have its head, it's reconstructed from relatives iirc

[indigo cradle]

Ye, iirc we only have it's arms

[wraith kindle]

I think the body of the JP one looks better.

[hardy sentinel]

Deinocheirus for a while moment

[light osprey]

The image on the left would be I think a very reasonable speculative Therizinosaur head reconstruction

[tough parcel]

Unfortunately, it’s less accurate and the one on the left would be the best overall

[wraith kindle]

Pretty sure Paleo Pines has the hunchbacked version too.

[zealous ravine]

Perhaps, but the CBD one is more accurate overall, Theri was quite hefty, with a massive chest

Wide boy

[spice mortar]

Live laugh wide Theri

[tacit pine]

Fr

[hot mantle]

This image makes me think what a quadrupedal theri would look like, don’t know why

[indigo cradle]

This is beautiful

[open compass]

Um, actually that's JW theri 🤓
Here's JP theri, chonky boi

[sullen cairn]

i think i may have found charonosaurus bonebed measurements
perhaps a downsize is in order...?

[fluid inlet]

What’s that stuff in its chest called ?

[zealous ravine]

Just a speculative bit of tissue, that’s all. Prolly for display

[tulip dove]

https://tenor.com/view/punisher-no-no-no-tanklorde-gif-13191678230910881285

[steady rock]

besides location, whats the difference between charonosaurus and para?

[pliant cedar]

the crest i think

[frigid delta]

dino discuss her now

[outer tusk]

What the hell is that

[frigid delta]

ammonite-theropod hybrid

[stiff osprey]

Sir that is a plushie that fell in an oil spill

[tough parcel]

That doesn't sound very accepting....

[outer tusk]

Is Evan Johnson Spinosaurus paper good?

I got into a debuts with someone about some of the more recent spinosaurus papers and I was wondering does there comment hold any weight, as my argument was that for much of the latter half of the year from 2022-2024 some of these papers seem to be more biased from what I've seen

[frigid delta]

*black ichor

[bronze storm]

Curious, could abelisaurs actually tolerate the trauma from if they were to headbutt something full force

[light osprey]

The emotional trauma from such an action would cripple them

[bronze storm]

Ok lets say they just got out of therapy and now are emotionally strengthened

[tough parcel]

AFAIK it isn't the best idea, but shoving each other during competition is possible (for Carno, at least)

[pliant cedar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edn9ZW2s7zw
paleoaccurate

[patent mist]

Charon is larger(?) Usually clades more basal. The crest Has not been found yet

[umbral kite]

if i high fived a theri would I survive

[mossy hawk]

No, unless youre very lucky

[umbral kite]

but it just i high five what the worst that can happen

[woeful falcon]

breaks your arm cus it pushes it the wrong way. if its sharp and forceful enough, accidentally cuts into your skin

if it was "just a high five" why'd you ask if you'd survive in the first place

[umbral kite]

do u think if theri fought for mate they high five each other till they one stops

[woeful falcon]

No

[umbral kite]

🥲

[sterile trail]

Their claws were too brittle for attacking

[umbral kite]

what would it have done

[indigo cradle]

Used it for threshing foliage for food

[pliant cedar]

it was a robust animal, so even without the claws it could probably hold its own against large predators

[indigo cradle]

People forget that mass is a weapon

[light osprey]

A whole five tonnes of mass to use against the Tarbosaurus’s… 5 tonnes of mass….

[stiff osprey]

The therizinosaur would use its mighty 10 newton bite force to scare off the tarbosaurus

[elfin pulsar]

lol

[steady rock]

well, being 5 tons would still be a deterient, what would you rather go after, the 5 ton theri or the smaller anyklosaurids?

[pliant cedar]

although icl a tarbosaurus probably still has the edge against a 5 ton therizinosaur

[steady rock]

true, i could see herding behavior in therinosaurus for more protection

[pliant cedar]

tyrannosaurs are the bigcats of theropods, they can really punch above their weight

[steady rock]

would you say sauropod was on the menu for tarbo?

[pliant cedar]

the ones in the nemegt? probably yeah. people think that tyrannosaurs are bad at sauropod hunting due to their powerful bite, but they had serrated teeth just like other theropods. compared to rex tarbo wouldve been better due to its thinner jaw allowing it to take more rapid bites

[compact leaf]

everything would be bad at hunting adult megasauropods, tarbo lived with a more reasonably sized one and juveniles would’ve still been common though

[fluid inlet]

Gotta be the first time I’ve see rhinos make elephants back up

Also Therizinosaurus solos

[pliant cedar]

they probably didnt want to risk getting the baby injured

[fluid inlet]

?

[compact leaf]

the herd has a calf that’s what they mean

[steady rock]

look at how close the rhinos were getting to the baby

[fluid inlet]

Usually elephants will circle around the baby when danger is around, they were completely submissive.

[compact leaf]

these also look like relatively young females and they probably had no real reason to try and push the rhino away, you can see what looks like a few older ones in the background

[hardy sentinel]

How did Apatosaurus and Brontosaurus live at the same time and place without being in heavy competition of each other?

[fluid inlet]

Yeah that make sense as well, definitely didn’t see no Bull Elephants around.

[wary heath]

How much is known about ankylosaur parenting?

[fluid inlet]

Who said they didn’t compete ?

[hardy sentinel]

none to my knowledge, but due to Ankylosaurs being found alone I would assume they would do the turtle method

[hardy sentinel]

Wouldn't one go exinct after a little while? Specificially Brontosaurus as it was smaller and probably was pushed around more?

[tough parcel]

Pinacosaurus has been found in a creche of at least 4 young individuals iirc, but I cannot recall if there was a situation like Psittaco with one older "sibling" or they were all the same size

[tough parcel]

No because in a healthy, non-human touched ecosystem, you can have quite a few large animals together (as well as the fact the Morrison stretched millions of years, not all animals were contemporary)

[hardy sentinel]

from what I could find on google Apato and Bronto lived at the same time and the same place

[tough parcel]

It's Google

Unless you mean Wikipedia, then it's not the best

[crystal dock]

^

[hardy sentinel]

so what source should I use then?

[pliant cedar]

competition doesnt usually result in extinction unless one species is vastly superior in that niche, or the environment changes in a way that strains resources

[wary heath]

I feel like ankylosaurs occasionally killed each other by accident from swinging their club tails.

1 swing to the head and it's all over.

[pliant cedar]

probably

[alpine island]

Its not entirely black and white regarding species competition, they could've lived in different regions of the Morrison, they could've had slight diet differences, they could've been separated by a few thousand years, etc

[thorn grove]

To reinforce this a lot of similarly-sized Tyrannosaurs are found in the same formations together, and many similar species coexist today- for example there's quite a bit of overlap between where different Hyena species are found. Often niches are separated by small behavioral traits that simply are not and often cannot be preserved by fossils.

[pliant cedar]

yeah, they might compete in one aspect of their diet, but avoid intense competition by being good at other things too (lions with very large prey, hyenas with bone marrow, leopards with hunting arboreal prey)

[alpine island]

Daspletosaurus and Gorgosaurus are possibly the most famous example of two similarly sized tyrannosaurs being present in the same general area in the same general time frame

[thorn grove]

Probably Google Scholar if you're looking for proper scientific publications, but if you're not that interested you can use Wikipedia, just keep in mind it's usually more of a quick summary than a full understanding and can be mistake prone (though at least you can always check the cited sources for more details if anything doesn't add up).

There are also some decent Paleo channels on YouTube, but there's a ton of slop content you have to be weary of and even the better channels are more like Wikipedia- just a summary.

[umbral kite]

What was the smartest dinosaur

[halcyon cobalt]

probably on purpose too

[wind prairie]

nah. They have helmet like head armor specifically for this
would take a few swings

[tough parcel]

From a study by Arbour, they used their tails to hit the flanks of their opponents, I don't think there was any noticeably high amount of head injuries to ankylosaurs from each other

[frigid delta]

atm it's rex, although it's not chimp-level. recent study places them as smart as monitor lizard/crocodiles (still smarter than some other theropods)
i could be wrong so cmiiw

[tough parcel]

Intellgience is a bad measurement, never use it if you value your moral integrity

[frigid delta]

speak that to urself falcon
i am an intelligent gorilla and nothing could stop me

[tough parcel]

Interesting

[steady rock]

do we know what the largest prehestoric freshwater fish was?

and is it larger then the beluga sturgeon?

[fluid inlet]

Ain’t it Leeds?

[steady rock]

i dont think leeds was freshwater....

[fluid inlet]

Oop just saw fish and automatically went Leeds skipped over freshwater

[steady rock]

also it still isnt the biggest fish, wouldnt megalodon be bigger?

[thorn grove]

phylogenetically it'd be the blue whale

[compact leaf]

but yeah megalodon would count as the biggest fish ever if we’re using the usual definition of fish

[fluid inlet]

https://x.com/seasaver/status/1790669431414075718?s=46 speaking of Leeds …

Blue Planet Society (@Seasaver) on X

This ancient fish was bigger than a whale shark—and faster than scientists ever imagined

Leedsichthys problematicus could overturn the bony fish paradox.

https://t.co/Hid7uvqDL3

Twitter · May 15, 2024, 9:03 AM

[steady rock]

https://tenor.com/view/britney-12-gif-27570847

[fluid inlet]

So glad we are getting close to Leeds being released in path of titans

[halcyon cobalt]

like rhizodus maybe?

[halcyon cobalt]

the mighty tyrannosaur hunting edmusthosaurus

[west coral]

Lythronax eating a diabloceratops while the caption talks about albertosaurus being hunted by edmontosaurus

[river plinth]

Saurophaganax is taking notes as we speak

[umbral kite]

guys was theri featherless or did have did theri have feathers becuade featherless theri haunt me

[crystal dock]

Featherless

[umbral kite]

what do u measure it by

[umbral kite]

noooooo

[crystal dock]

Well womp womp

[outer tusk]

if you had to make therizinosaurus feathered something like this I feel would be more likely

[umbral kite]

This is wat i see

[outer tusk]

☠️

[sterile trail]

Hey Paleontology Chat, how fast could a Quetzalcoatlus fly? The current estimate is a staggering 80 mph (~130 kph). I personally think this estimate is quite farfetched unless I'm proven wrong. What would y'all think?

[umbral kite]

It the fastest thing iimc

[stiff osprey]

It makes sense, the larger an object is, the faster you have to move it in order to produce enough lift to raise it off the ground. Bigger birds tend to fly faster than smaller ones

[warped peak]

AFAIK that was only powered flight

[umbral kite]

see it would have to be fast becuase for large thing to fly it need to very fast or have very large wings im missing something but yea

[sterile trail]

Though Quetzals were around 500 pounds

[umbral kite]

yes so for it to fly it would need to have very large wing to fly or be very fast but so far i found it 80-128 mph

[sterile trail]

The 128 is in kilometers, not miles

[umbral kite]

Us this idk if it right but 🤷‍♂️

[sterile trail]

Do not use that video as a reference

[compact leaf]

60+mph isn’t uncommon for soaring birds to hit and quetz is huge, 80 or higher isn’t entirely unreasonable

[umbral kite]

for thing to fly it need to balance weight = to wings size and speed so if u do math and then we could try to find it weight and wing then us that to fond x the speed or soemthing idk

[umbral kite]

just lookk up aerodynamic

[honest cobalt]

Leeds my beloved!

[fluid inlet]

after leeds we will just need giga!

[steady rock]

tylo:

[wary heath]

Nah they're gonna make that thing able to crawl on land.

[stiff osprey]

I guess smaller predators that hunted the juveniles don't exist

[thorn grove]

People usually only think about the biggest few animals in an ecosystem ig

[fluid inlet]

at what stage of its life does triceratops develop the frill

[thorn grove]

I think they always had a frill it just got continuously bigger and more developed as they aged

[wind prairie]

ok that is very minimalist
theri could've very well had a slower metabolism, and nemegt got pretty cold sometimes

[fluid inlet]

Thoughts? https://x.com/stomiizu/status/1863099332289077715?s=46

izu'stomi (@StomiIzu) on X

ディロフォサウルス / Dilophosaurus 🦖

Twitter · Dec 1, 2024, 5:54 AM

[hardy sentinel]

Would juvenile Tyrannosaurus have feathers?

I read somewhere that you cannot have both feathers and scales in the same spot, even at different life stages. Would a juvenile Tyrannosaurus maybe have feathers grow in between scales or are feathers on babies out of the question?

[halcyon cobalt]

idk man theri was pretty big and chunky

[frigid delta]

accurate?
https://youtu.be/ZW7p1Qb-1F4?si=c1P7QgDhPVZfZWup

[gentle rampart]

Theyre descendants from trilobites right

[hardy sentinel]

I think

[sterile trail]

Trilobites need to return

[rose gate]

https://youtu.be/TU7H7C-dVkc?si=vy4ZkD_piZxRPX09

[halcyon cobalt]

trilobites are just overhyped detritovores

[halcyon cobalt]

no

[nocturne ore]

How fast is giganotosaurus supposed to be

[frigid delta]

#paleontology message

19-20 mph/31-33 kmh

[nocturne ore]

And how smart it is?

[frigid delta]

at one point i remember someone puts them in iguana level

[nocturne ore]

Doesn't it have a bigger brain?

[frigid delta]

bigger brain ≠ smarter

[nocturne ore]

Yeah but as I know dinosaurs were like birds that had more neurons for a smaller brain and if Gigas brain is bigger than the iguana one should have a lot more neurons so smarter, tell me if I am wrong

[open compass]

So, whale is smarter than us?

[nocturne ore]

Whale is not correlated with birds

[sudden wind]

There isn't any relation between brain size and intelligence. Even then, I think the relation between brain size/body size ratio is also quite questionable as whales and elephants are very intelligent yet their brain mass is quite neglectable. So we don't really know any correlation that goes with intelligence (and we don't know how to quantify intelligence anyway).

[junior dawn]

we aren’t intelligent enough to know

[sudden wind]

So true

[nocturne ore]

As I know birds (crows especially) have very compacted neurons and they are very smart and dinosaurs are supposed to have bigger brain than a crow

[stiff osprey]

We can't say for sure that adult Tyrannosaurus were not feathered, the skin impressions are not detailed enough and cover too small of an area. But if the adults were fully scaly, then yes, the babies would have been scaly as well

[outer tusk]

hey Random you gonna a minute

[little mauve]

That is something that evolved far down the bird line to accommodate the mental demands of flight. Nonavian dinosaurs have much more conservative neurology in line with other reptiles

When we say Giganotosaurus had a brain the size of an iguana we mean that if we scaled the iguana to the size of the giga their brains would be the same size. It's about proportional brain size, which does give some idea of behavioral flexibility & complexity aka intelligence

[hallow spear]

This is way too fast, giga is similar to Rex’s speed around 26kmh

[wraith kindle]

Trilobites were hella diverse though.

[sudden wind]

You're an opp if you don't remember that period

[wraith kindle]

Cool vid.

[gentle rampart]

looks like precambrian, ediacara?

[wraith kindle]

Whats an opp? ||And definetly Edicarian.||

[gentle rampart]

slang for opposition

[thorn grove]

I just got my last comment auto deleted for saying d*ckinsonia

[cosmic fox]

bigger body = needs bigger brain to control bigger body

[pliant cedar]

most of an elephants brain is for locomotion and coordination iirc

[little mauve]

elephants have a large cerebellum, the part of the brain responsible for coordination, but it's still only 18% of total mass

ours is about 10%

[pliant cedar]

brainpower

[steady rock]

blows u up with my mind

[tall vale]

You can’t lose ancestral traits can you? There has to be at least some remnant of that trait unless I’m wrong?

Because then there’s the ankylosaurids/nodosaurids and stegosaurids

Or large ornithopods since there aren’t many ornithopod reconstructions with feathers

[stiff osprey]

Sure you can. Snakes lost their legs entirely and there's dozens of animals that lost their eyes

It just takes a long time

[pliant cedar]

like all amniotes losing their gills

[tall vale]

I guess it depends on if its beneficial for how the way they live to lose something, like snakes were clearly going down the path of being slithery boys so losing their legs made it beneficial for them to truly become a snake. Same thing with some animals losing their eyes, they live in areas where eyes are not needed so losing eyes was just beneficial

But nearly all mammals have hair, even the biggest mammal today which could reach some dinosaur sizes still have small amounts of hair. Now there were groups of dinosaurs like I listed above that might've lost feathers as they weren't beneficial for it but what's the benefit in losing all feathers for example in theropods.

[light osprey]

I still think it’s very possible for a young tyrannosaur to shed most of their body hair through ontogeny. It’s definitely observed in Elephas today

[tall vale]

But they still don't lose it completely.

They just became less noticeable because the hair that is left is very miniscule and wouldn't be spotted at first sight on such a large animal.

[stiff osprey]

^

[light osprey]

Perhaps I worded my comment to described a partial loss of hair? Asian elephants do infact shed body hair

[stiff osprey]

It can happen in part during ontogeny, but the shed hair (or feathers) would be replaced by naked skin, not scales as we see in tyrannosaur mummies

[light osprey]

Why would it be replaced by naked skin

[tall vale]

As far as I know I don't think you can grow scales out of the blue.

[stiff osprey]

Because that is what happens in animals that lose hair or feathers

[tall vale]

Birds also without feathers are covered in skin not scales.

[light osprey]

You can have a coexistence of scales and feathers can’t you

Is that not the condition we observed in Juravenator and Kulindadromeus

[stiff osprey]

In different areas of the body, yes

[light osprey]

Is there a clear transition between naked skin and scalation in Juravenator?

[stiff osprey]

the underside of the tail is scaly while the dorsal side is feathered iirc

[tall vale]

So would that mean that in theropods at younger stages they wouldn't have feathering all over but only on the dorsal?

[light osprey]

I’m pretty sure the feathers growing between scales in Juravenator. I know for certain they are in Kulindadromeus

[stiff osprey]

Kulindadromeus allegedly has feathers growing out of its scales, but I don't know if that interpretation is correct

But yes, scales can be spread out with feathers growing in areas not covered by them

[stiff osprey]

Theropods are too broad of a clade to generalize like that, some probably had fully scaly tails while others (like Sinosauropteryx) had fully feathered tails

[light osprey]

I think they observed both scales with filament growing out of them and in between them

[outer tusk]

Hey Random I forgot to add but I was talking to 7shots in regarded to saurophaganax and he said your saurophagnax with drepy.stego edit has some issues as it is scaled to previous placeholder for the largest specimen OMNH 2149 and I was just wondering with what he said was correct?

[stiff osprey]

It's scaled to the largest published material. I don't work with unpublished stuff and neither should you

[outer tusk]

Okay I was just making sure cause 7shots himself has been just well kind of informing people on saurophaganax with 99% of it being like you said unpublished and I was just really REALLY suspicious about it all yk

[fluid inlet]

Does 7shots have exclusive access to saurophaganax material or something? Or is it just unpublished material as mentioned? Unpublished can still be legit tho right. ?

[outer tusk]

7shots has exclusive access to it but not well legeally wise as stated by prior people here the method he used to get in was by no means acceptable

[fluid inlet]

That makes sense, I figured because his name is always tied to sauro.

[kindred night]

7Shots should not be trusted. He has no understanding of anatomy and lied to the institution to get access to Saurophaganax material.

[outer tusk]

think you again Paleodude for informing about it,it's too sad yk cause he seems like a very tursting dude on the soruce material but why would he lie to do it 😭

[fluid inlet]

How accurate?

[kindred night]

I for one do not have a tail but I won't discriminate if you do.

[ripe walrus]

Spinosaurus rex🔥

[wind prairie]

literally how are they overhyped they're so cool

[nocturne ore]

Spinosaurus before all the nerfs

[halcyon cobalt]

omg so much diversity and cool-ness!!!!!!!!

[stiff osprey]

bro thinks trilobites are a breed of carp

[thorn grove]

yes they are cool, or are you one of those people who only cares about apex predators

[halcyon cobalt]

I just don’t really think little bugs in the sediment are that cool

[thorn grove]

ok but other people do so shut up when they're enjoying them

[velvet burrow]

Would it be a loss?

Mammals do lose their hair and become bald. In Tyrannosaurus, theoretically, feathers wouldn't be lost, they would become scales instead

[wind prairie]

1. Yes.
2. trilobites are a lot more diverse than carp
   so you just like big theropods or something???? can't appreciate cool sea bugs??

trilobites got all kinds of spikes and weird structures
ddinodan is making art of several of them

[halcyon cobalt]

not when there are cooler sea bugs ( all aquatic chelicerates )

[wind prairie]

yeah sure
chelicerates are cool but some trilobites had spears sticking out of their heads

[thorn grove]

having preferences is fine but I don't think any animal is overrated or overhyped so I dislike disregarding any type of animal as unworthy of interest just because you have a preference towards another

[wind prairie]

^ I like all animals by default at least in a way

[kindred night]

Oh so he's actively lying now great

As I was directly at the same institution and know what went down

[ripe walrus]

wdym nerfs Spino way better now than before

you cant nerf something that never had thoses powers

[sudden wind]

There are HUNDREDS of Trilobite taxon.

Dang I even underestimated it myself : there are 5000 genera and 25k species.

[outer tusk]

crazy

[sudden wind]

You wanna know what's underrated? Extinct annelids.

[pliant cedar]

looks ediacrian

[sudden wind]

They are not !

[plain frost]

Hello I am new

[warped peak]

Hi new, I'm Wes

[plain frost]

delighted and what are you doing this Server?

[warped peak]

I'm a modder, paleoartist, and paleo-enthusiast

This channel is uses to discuss funner paleo matters like how Edmontosaurus in musth can hunt Tyrannosaurus, at what point a Dinosaur can be considered a bird, and David Peters.

[keen forum]

Bismark isn't that 7's alt?

[fluid inlet]

Hi Wes i am Carcharodontosaurus.

[keen forum]

if so i won't take anything they say without a huge grain of salt

[warped peak]

ha you got blown up in WWII

[keen forum]

he whaaaaaaaaaa

[outer tusk]

Yes

[kindred night]

Regardless of 7Shots there are multiple teams currently working on Saurophaganax that don't corroborate his results as tenuous as they are. I recommend waiting.

[fluid inlet]

New dinosaur unlocked

[carmine wind]

Holy Shi+ that looks cool

Can you move the baryonyx's jaws and arms?

[sterile trail]

If we ever find a mummified Spinosaurus, I will be so happy

[fast hollow]

The entire world wins the lottery that day

[sullen cairn]

only you can prevent giant para footprint scaling

[candid cove]

what would a female triceratops be called?

[umbral kite]

a doe or a cow

[candid cove]

Thank you

[turbid forum]

Ah yes, allosaurus crests, tyrannosaurus arms, megalosaurus snout and small chonky legs

[candid cove]

A dinosaur you would find in Jurassic world alive

[turbid forum]

As a jw alive player I agree with this

[indigo cradle]

I do be a jwa enjoyer tho

[wraith kindle]

Trikette

[candid cove]

Omfg

[fluid inlet]

https://x.com/haolonggood/status/1863465464304697818?s=46 next purchase for me

Haolonggood (好龙谷) (@Haolonggood) on X

#Haolonggood | En la exposición de Shenzhen 2024, expusimos esta figura del #Dilophosaurus a escala 1:20. Ha sido un año de mucho trabajo y nos sentimos orgullosos de ir cumpliendo lo que nos propusimos, nuestras figuras son hechas con amor, basadas en los datos científicos

Twitter · Dec 2, 2024, 6:09 AM

[fluid inlet]

Only the jaw, sorry for the late reply.

[indigo cradle]

I'll take 12

[wheat junco]

I need some good references of the conc to draw? People in Any good for that?

[open compass]

https://youtu.be/Y5tkbtWA8tM?si=D9BWACBGPXee4LDB

[open compass]

I have a question about this video, why these parts of tyrannosaurus skulls are different?

[frigid delta]

ask it themself ||/j||

[open compass]

What if it's just a sexual dimorphism of tyrannosaurus?

[cloud dagger]

Or are the skulls just fossil like models made by someone? Those pics have more differences than just that part

[stiff osprey]

Second one is a model

[timber kiln]

how accurate is this

[outer tusk]

Not accurate!

[timber kiln]

do u have a better reference?

this better?

[outer tusk]

This one

[timber kiln]

alright thanks

[pseudo harbor]

I’ve been living in Colombia a majority of my life and I somehow didn’t know there was a Dinosaur from there. (Also how accurate is this size estimate?

[rose thorn]

This one is fine

[umbral kite]

im trying to figure out how fast a quetz could fly and and it weight = wing span +speed so if u do the reverse to find the it would be around 550ib and a wing span of 36 feet so subtraction it would have a speed of 514 mph but im doing something wrong here idk wat

[rose thorn]

Yea, no, not how that works

Habib et al suggests 130 km/h, Witton suggests 90 km/h, both values are for sustained level flight. Witton estimates a maximum speed of 174 km/h in very short bursts.

[frosty cedar]

Damn, 130 km/h for such a large thing is impressive.

[white matrix]

All of these are pretty fast yeah

[river plinth]

https://tenor.com/view/big-yoshi-beeg-yoshi-mario-rpg-gif-7187103637593349944

[tough parcel]

Interesting, perhaps PoT and PT should update their azhdarchid flight speeds...?

[white matrix]

If you dive beforehand, Hatz is pretty fast

[frosty cedar]

I like my quetz at mach 2 speed.

[steady smelt]

Being realistic how many concavenators would be needed to take down a cerato (cera being 1.100kg and concave 630kg)

[warped peak]

I'd say 2-3, as despite the relatively small difference in size, Cerato is Armored and has one of the meanest bites relative to size of any theropod

[wraith kindle]

Why would they be attacking a cerato anyway? Realistically.

[scenic flame]

Discrimination

[steady smelt]

Idk say protecting babys for example

[frosty cedar]

Meanest as strong or delivering deep slashes?

[warped peak]

Both

[frosty cedar]

Oh damn.

[warped peak]

Admittedly most theropods inflicted deep gashes when biting

[tough parcel]

Considering the "armor" is predominantly along the spine (and maybe a row along the flank), I don't think it's doing much armor...ing 😭 😭

[steady smelt]

I mean cera IS pretty massive so they would mostly try biting and running away It could be similar to a group of wolfs VS a bear

Uh a question how Big are their skulls?

[frosty cedar]

Yeah, it's not like he is an ankylo or something lol.

[steady smelt]

It would offer some portection but a concave bite would hurt It anyways

[stiff osprey]

Provided one of the concs wasn't taken out immediately, 2 of them would suffice

[outer tusk]

Btw when doing line detail on beaked theropods, is something like this okay?

[warped peak]

Sucho are you okay

[wraith kindle]

That’s not a beaked theropod.

[outer tusk]

How

[wraith kindle]

It does look rather emaciated too.

[warped peak]

What is it? Paraxenisaurus?

[wraith kindle]

Looks like extreme shrink wrap route.

[outer tusk]

Paraxenisaurus with a fake head

[wraith kindle]

Oh, it's another weird looking dino apparently.

[steady smelt]

Silly conc on Madrid

[ionic crescent]

Arriba España

[tough parcel]

True!

[steady smelt]

Siempre

[sudden wind]

Enchufla doble🕺

[umbral kite]

citipata struthi maybe theri

and Deinocheirus

also y do we not call all marine reptiles something like thalassiosavros or ydrovisavros

[tough parcel]

Because they're non-important

[compact leaf]

because marine reptiles aren’t an actual group, we’ve had this discussion before

[outer tusk]

Also marine reptile's rolls off the tongue better

[zealous ravine]

Generally the keratin should not cover the sinuses

[outer tusk]

The what

[zealous ravine]

The beak, it’s made of keratin

[zealous ravine]

Cause not all marine reptiles are related. Some are sauropterygians, some are lizards, some are archosaurs of some variety, etc

[umbral kite]

So the reason we call all dinosaurs dinosaurs is becuase they all come from one ancestor and the same thing of pterosaurs

[zealous ravine]

Yep

[umbral kite]

then y not just call it something else becuase all marine reptiles by what they are actually are becuase when u hear the word marine reptile u think it would in imply they where the same thing

[zealous ravine]

No? It doesn’t imply they’re the same group at all. It’s just a simple statement of what they are. They are all marine, I.E. they live in marine environments, and they are all reptiles. It’s like saying we shouldn’t call things carnivores cause that implies they’re in the same group lmfao

[umbral kite]

ok then is a deinosuschus a marine reptile or a crocodilian becuase it live in the water nearly it whole life and is adapted for the water

[zealous ravine]

Marine Reptile isn’t the name of a group. If you say something is a marine reptile you’re just saying it’s a reptile that happens to be marine. As for Deinosuchus, I believe it lived in the WIS, which was a marine environment, so yes I suppose so

Marine does not mean any water btw. Marine means an ocean or a sea

[tough parcel]

I feel like considering it's a giant gator with functional legs (thus meaning it was semi-aquatic) makes it not a marine reptile because it didn't live its whole life in the ocean

AFAIK it can be compared to salties (maybe a bit more marine-leaning though, I will admit)

[zealous ravine]

Oh yeah true. I will say some people describe marine iguanas as marine reptiles even though they spend a considerable amount of time on land. But yeah prolly best not to include them then as marine reptile, for the most part, implies they lived most if not all of the time in water

[woeful falcon]

Yeah. Plus context matters too, and usually in the context of every day paleo chat "marine reptile" generally refers to certain groups

As in like, marine reptile meaning reptile that lives in marine environment vs marine reptile as it generally means in the context of chat here

[zealous ravine]

Mhm, mosasaurs, plesiosaurs, and ichthyosaurs being the main ones, but more broadly you have sauropterygians and placodonts as well

Wait placodonts are sauropterygians, lmfao

Hell depending on how you stretch the definition hesperornis would count too lol

[broken shale]

what

[sullen cairn]

if polar bears can be marine mammals i can live with deinosuchus being a marine reptile

[tough parcel]

If TableSeating can be defenestrated, I can live without Deinosuchus being a marine reptile

[sudden wind]

Well, cornified tissues composing beaks are, on extant beaked animals, only on the premaxilla, so your theropod there would only have the very tip of their jaws beaked.

Nvm only in birds : turtles have the maxilla covered.

[zealous ravine]

Hesperornis is a dinosaur, dinosaurs are reptiles, it spent most of its life in the WIS, therefore it is a reptile that is marine. It’s a marine reptile

[broken shale]

mhm I understand

(No I don’t)

[sudden wind]

Let me explain

[zealous ravine]

The WIS is the Western Interior Seaway, a marine environment that used to cut through the middle of NA

[light osprey]

The Hesperornis is actually terrestrial! Hope this helps!

[zealous ravine]

Do not listen to the sharl, he lies

[velvet burrow]

Hesperornis was a terrestrial pursuit predator trust /j

[tough parcel]

Perhaps this is why we don't find non-avian dinosaur fossils in nearby formations...the Hesperornis pursuit predator'ed them all........

[sudden wind]

"Birds" are a group of diapsid (fall within Sauropsida, more or less equal to "Reptilia" but includes birds), which are characterized by having 2 set of holes on their skull (the lateral temporal fenestrae and supratemporal fenestrae). That's the same condition that's seen among Lepidosaurs (tuataras and squamates) and crocodiles (it was however lost among turtles) so birds are within the same group as other "reptiles".

Bird, which usually is synonymous with Aves, can also be defined by Avialae (so the animals considered as "birds" gets broader). By extending "birds" as Avialae, you can find avian dinosaurs as ancient as Anchiornis and consider them as "birds". More derived species include stuffs like Hesperornithiforms, and so Hesperornis.

So, as you see birds can be considered as "reptiles" (but note that reptiles isn't a true group that contains all the animals descending from their common ancestor) and Hesperornis mostly had a marine lifestyle, which means it principally fed on marine resources such as cephalopods and saltwater "fish" (but Hesperornis was also found in freshwater deposits iirc. So, you can technically say that Hesperornis is a "marine reptile". Personally, I'd prefer to say marine avian dinosaurs.

Should have done another line with non avian dinosaurs thinking about it but this is fine @broken shale

[zealous ravine]

They are reptiles as defined by the fact that they are members of reptilia. They are reptiles in a taxonomic sense

[woeful falcon]

Did mans just give the lore

[sudden wind]

Though, I'd like to point out one thing : Reptiles are defined as ectothermic tetrapods with amniotic development. By this definition, reptiles rules out birds as reptiles but we know that they are within the same group as crocodiles. Thus make it reptile paraphyletic, which means that it is a group that does not regroup all the descendants of one common ancestor (that is the same problem with "fish" and even among what you'd call a "fish" you cannot give a morphology, physiological or ecological definition).

Today, most people use the groupd Sauropsid, which is defined by the terrestrial amniotes closer to crocodiles and sand lizard than mammals, which would be the equivalent of "Reptilia".

[zealous ravine]

Reptilia is or is not a monophyletic clade based on the definition, but I prefer to use the monophyletic definition

It used to be paraphyletic, but some have started describing it in such a way that makes it monophyletic

[carmine wind]

What about the legs and neck and anything else.

[sudden wind]

I don't typically see "reptile" being often used in taxonomy so I go with Sauropsida.

As unfortunately there are non diapsid Sauropsids.

[velvet burrow]

If anything i'm fine with "reptiles" being relegated to an informal physical/ecological description like "mole"

[zealous ravine]

Do be aware the 1:20 statues tend to be in the hundreds of dollars

[velvet burrow]

Which means that yes, dinosaurs wouldn't be considered reptiles

[sudden wind]

Well, it's not even right ecologically tbf.
There isn't a "reptile" ecology.

[zealous ravine]

Sauropsida is eh. Is it more accurate from a scientific standpoint? Possibly. But no one knows what you’re talking about. I think the much better option is to redefine reptilia as a group based on common ancestry

One could define reptiles as having scales, which applies to at least all living reptiles lol

[sudden wind]

Mammals have scales.

[velvet burrow]

Yeah, scratch that

[zealous ravine]

True, I think any descriptive definition is gonna be flawed for that same reason, there’s always gonna be an outlier that breaks the rules

[tough parcel]

A reptile is cool

A mammal is lame

[zealous ravine]

If you ask me we should move closer to proper cladistic definitions for all groups

[pseudo harbor]

Your a mammal lmao

[tough parcel]

Yea and?

[velvet burrow]

"Fully scaled ectothermic bs with non erect limbs" kinda works ngl

[tough parcel]

That's what you think buddy...

Besides, even if reptiles weren't cool, we're still awesome

[velvet burrow]

I absolutely second this

[zealous ravine]

Birds are reptiles, everything is a fish, you cannot convince me otherwise

You can’t evolve out of a clade, no matter how hard you try, we are all, at the end of the day, incredibly derived lungfish

[velvet burrow]

Everything went downhill when mammals started growing over 15kg

[outer tusk]

So what are we yapping about?

[light osprey]

It’s over for patagomaiabros….

[velvet burrow]

How to define reptiles in a paraphyletic way ig

[outer tusk]

Btw is this pink color okay

[outer tusk]

Shouldn't the word be phylogenetic?

[velvet burrow]

No, paraphyletic
Without including borbs

[sudden wind]

That's why by going with cladistic definition (using synapomorphies) you cannot really define a reptilian group.

[zealous ravine]

Paraphyletic means a group that includes multiple unrelated clade

[velvet burrow]

Wouldn't that be polyphyletic?

[sudden wind]

No because not all reptiles are and were ectothermic (Plesiosaurs, Ichthyosaurs, early pseudosuchians and birds).

[zealous ravine]

Oop, I misspoke there, I mean a definition based on common ancestry. Not sure what the word for that would be

[sudden wind]

No, that's polyphyletic. Paraphyletic means that you exclude one part of the descendants.

[zealous ravine]

But like common ancestor of the American alligator and ball python or smthn like that. (And all descendants ofc)

[outer tusk]

There's a lot of P words I see

[sudden wind]

That's what is currently for Sauropsida as far as I know. It's stuffs closer to crocs and lizards than humans.

[zealous ravine]

Oh yeah, but reptiles as traditionally defined would still be paraphyletic as they exclude birds

[sudden wind]

Indeed. Reptiles are basically all these guys but not birds.

[river plinth]

That's just a naked stork

[outer tusk]

Yeah it ate the soul of the innocents

[zealous ravine]

Which is why if you ask me it should be redefined

[sudden wind]

If we say that Sauropsida = Reptile then ye it works.

[woeful falcon]

Would this guy have even had keratin around the eye

Also never seen a deinocheirus depicted with keratin there

[outer tusk]

Because that's not deinocherius

[woeful falcon]

Yeah but it is a deinocheirid

[outer tusk]

Because the skull I used does depict it

[woeful falcon]

Ornithomimosaurs in general I've never seen keratin there

[outer tusk]

Not the skull used like I said

[woeful falcon]

Who made that. Is it an edit of Barrera's or did he update it somewhere I didn't notice

[outer tusk]

Edit

[woeful falcon]

What was used for the skull even

[outer tusk]

The skull is of a fictional recon of a deinocheirid by Manu

I asked a friend of my to head swap it on Barrera's paraxeni

[pliant cedar]

let bro eat damn

[outer tusk]

Bro has already eaten a family meal

[river plinth]

It looks like it got it's innocents taken

[umbral kite]

guys if dinosaur where close enough in genus could they make a hybrid dinosaur like a trex with nano or a trike with a Nedoceratops

[zealous ravine]

I wanna say no, but hybridization is weird so best I can say is probably no

[elfin pulsar]

I’d be insanely surprised if dinosaurs never had offspring with another close relative of it’s species

If the offspring were viable or not idk but it must have happened

[outer tusk]

no because nanotyrannus and nedoceratops are invalid genuses of the former 2

[zealous ravine]

Well Nedo is, Nano has a bit more validity to it thanks to the Napoli paper.

[outer tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/look-up-scared-willem-dafoe-gif-17761333

[sterile trail]

If they were the same Genus then maybe. If so, we could have the equivalent to a Liger or a Wholphin

[outer tusk]

problem nor hybirds can happen in nature

[sterile trail]

True, but there is the case of Mules, which can be found in the wild IF BOTH Horses and Donkeys are in the same environment

[fluid inlet]

Def not true sorry kuit

[sterile trail]

Even if they didn't have hybrid offspring together, HYPOTHETICALLY, there could be actual hybrid dinosaurs. Just not as drastic as the Jurassic franchise made them.

Anyways, time for my daily question:

What are y'all's opinions on Pterodactylus? The actual genus.

This lil man for reference

[compact leaf]

narlugas and grolar bears:

I mean they’re really weird and rare but they do happen

[zealous ravine]

American paddlefish and Russian sturgeon can hybridize, when they really shouldn’t be able to

[noble dune]

Beishanlong?

[light osprey]

We gotta put an end to these hybrid names, it’s getting out of hand

[compact leaf]

nonsense, I think I’ll make 5 more right now

[outer tusk]

I was referring to the liger and wholphin

[fluid inlet]

We know triceratops would fight against Tyrannosaurus rex and sometimes win. Can the same be said for Torosaurus?

[wind prairie]

I wouldn't be shocked if closely related dinosaurs hybridized at least once in history. Sometimes they don't even have to be in the same genus for modern animals to hybridize in a few cases

[wind prairie]

if triceratops is locked in yes
I'm sure toro won every now and then
but as long as the rex knows what it's doing most of the time rex wins

[zealous ravine]

Not necessarily, I can’t think of any predator that succeeds in more than 50% of hunts, I imagine a ceratopsian would be especially hard, so unless it’s a young or weak individual I’d say the ceratopsian has the upper hand

[fluid inlet]

Curious to know how big we think the biggest torosaurus specimens got

I also wonder how did triceratops get so much popular in media compared to Torosuarus.

🔥

[wind prairie]

I mean realistically a rex would be going after a young or weak individual yeah
against a full healthy adult they're at least pretty even I think

[wind prairie]

this is literally peak why is there not more art of trike and toro interacting

[light osprey]

Behold the arid desert of the hell creek

[fluid inlet]

Agreed, I have yet to see anyone do Quetz and Hatz interacting and I know they were in different areas but surely they met at some period of time crossing paths.

[west coral]

Around this big (shameless plug)

[thorn grove]

I'd imagine a majority of failed hunts would just be the T. rex backing down because it got noticed too soon or something, the biggest advantage a hunter has is deciding the terms of the fight and most predators will probably avoiding taking fights unless they feel confident they can win. The issue with comparing animals in combat is that most fights in nature are rarely "fair"

[velvet burrow]

The mighty seahorses with their 90% success rate

[zealous ravine]

Exactly. A fight doesn’t always end cause one animal defeats the other, often time the prey escapes or the predator decides the meal ain’t worth it. I imagine if a rex failed to catch a trike by surprise it would in all likelihood give up. A meal isn’t worth the risk of getting gored.

[zealous ravine]

Iirc there’s been some evidence of quetz in Africa, though I’m not sure how well that holds up. If it’s true, the distance between Europe and Africa isn’t that far…

I just wanna stress this is completely off the top of my head and I could be totally wrong here

[cloud breach]

Wrong its arambourgiania

[west coral]

There is a miniscule “quetzalcoatlus sp” from ouled abdoun

[cloud breach]

Aff. Quetz but yeah

[zealous ravine]

Ain’t Aram a mid Cretaceous species?

Nvm it is maast

Ohhh I mixed it up with Alanqa lol, mb

[dry kindle]

Would a less derived coelurosaur like ornitholestes have the fused fingers found in dromaeosaurs?

[timid drum]

Just saw this and gonna just say Dragonflies have a 95 percent success rate with hunting. Making them the most deadly predators. 😎 Its cool, but a moot point, cause I dont think we could find one that would be willing to futz with a Triceratops lmaoooo

[storm heron]

If Tyrannosaurus hunted in groups, the chances of success could vary even more

[white matrix]

Hold on is that laphtor, I haven't seen that name in a hot minute

[pearl haven]

I remember someone bringing up the fact that Torosaurus has a less unique name which led to it getting overshadowed by the cooler sounding Triceratops, even tho Toro is prolly more well researched and (imo) cooler

like when people are looking for dinosaurs to include in media theyre prolly gonna go for the one that sounds cooler huhuuu

I could def be very wrong but that's why I think it isn't as popular sadly

same reason why the Utahraptors were renamed to be Velociraptors when adapting the Jurassic Park novel into a movie iirc

Velociraptor just sounded cooler even tho they're still modelled after Utahraptor

[frigid delta]

what abt this?

[woeful falcon]

nah, probably a common misconception. Utahraptor wasn't even described yet. They were actually based on Deinonychus

which, actually, when you look at life restorations of the time it's pretty apparent

[pearl haven]

ooohh okay I see, I knew it was one of the 2 I just forgor lol

[woeful falcon]

the boy

[pearl haven]

okay this raises Triceratops up the coolness list for me instantly, sorry Toro fans

[woeful falcon]

I've long been a torosaurus fan, courtesy of WWD

[tough parcel]

Clearly Stan Winston traveled forward in time to discover Dakotaraptor!

[woeful falcon]

don't say that name.

[pearl haven]

shouldve been a giant evil Halszkaraptor smh

[frigid delta]

even AI knows

[sharp dragon]

That's a common misconception actually, Deinocheirus is actually the largest theropod dinosaur according to my bathroom scales.

[frigid delta]

ok duck

[wary heath]

Perhaps we've found fossils of hybrid dinosaurs and we don't even know of them.

I'd imagine a giga and mapusaurus hybridizing

[tranquil quartz]

what

[frigid delta]

Giga lived before Mapu
...
NOT SCIENTIFICALLY POSSIBLE

[open compass]

JP velos were based on deino

[indigo cradle]

I love the cycle of "JP raptor based off Utah" on the internet

[pseudo harbor]

👆

[tacit pine]

Utahs size yeah

[velvet burrow]

I hate it

Utahraptor is a very unique animal but to the general public (and therefore media) it's already tagged as "the real life JP raptor"

[bright sluice]

So I just learned that there was a fossil squid with ink that was still able to be written with? How?

[velvet burrow]

So in every piece of paleomedia ever, every time Utahraptor shows is just a generic raptor or an oversized Deinonychus

[wraith kindle]

I don't know about the written with part, but wouldn't be surprised if ink was found given how some other molecules like melanin have survived under certain conditions.

[tough parcel]

Modern squids are renowned for their ability to squirt ‘ink’ to distract predators, and this behavior probably existed in the Cretaceous. The ink can be used for writing. Some researchers in the UK found an even older Jurassic ink sac and were able to create a writing fluid by mixing the particles with an ammonia solution.

[wary heath]

“Erm ackshually 🤓”

[pearl haven]

Ye someone already corrected me dw

[tranquil quartz]

Bro asked a question in a paleontology channel and is annoyed they got an answer

[outer tusk]

https://x.com/DanPalaeon1/status/1863985184934101406?s=19

Dan F (@DanPalaeon1) on X

#Nothronychus graffami. This is one of the skeletals I did a while back for the old book project of mine. Here it is for you to enjoy!

Twitter · Dec 3, 2024, 4:34 PM

[magic monolith]

That lower jaw has something going on

[gentle rampart]

That is some incredible preservation, looks like it belongs to Coleoidea

[umbral kite]

what clade of dinosaurs is a theri and this dinosaur

[zealous ravine]

@fluid inlet

[pliant cedar]

robust

[outer tusk]

Theropoda

[umbral kite]

ok wait i said it wrong i meant what genus is it

[zealous ravine]

Well Therizinosaurus is in the genus Therizinosaurus, and Nothronychus is in the genus Nothronychus lol. But they’re both within the clade Therizinosauridae if that’s what you mean

[woeful falcon]

ye, that's the family they're in

[pliant cedar]

within the larger clade maniraptora

[fluid inlet]

New drop? 👀

[umbral kite]

no like how a trex dasp and ugly torvo are in the tyrannus genus that wat i meant

[outer tusk]

What

Tyrannus isn't a genus name unless you mean "Tyrannosauridae"

[umbral kite]

so what is the therizinosaurus genus name

[outer tusk]

Therizinosaurus

[umbral kite]

really

therizinosaurid

[outer tusk]

Yeah therizinosaurus is a therizinosaurid

[umbral kite]

@dreamy lance how do i make a suggestion

[zealous ravine]

Mhm

[fluid inlet]

I seen they releasing a Styra too

[zealous ravine]

No, they aren’t lmfao. Genus is something like Tyrannosaurus and Daspletosaurus. I think you have genus mixed up with smthn else. Tyrannosaurus, Dasp, and Torvo aren’t in the same genus at all

[fluid inlet]

I also looked up their 1/20 scale dinosaurs and you weren’t lying about the prices. I’m going to pass on that. 😭

[zealous ravine]

Therizinosaurus, the species name is cheloniformis, so that makes the full name Therizinosaurus cheloniformis

[zealous ravine]

Mhm, they’re hand painted resin models as opposed to mass produced pvc figures

[fluid inlet]

They hand paint all of them? Jeez.

[zealous ravine]

An artist named Black Mamba does it I believe, but I could be wrong

[wary junco]

Tyrannus is a real genus, but it's a genus of tyrant flycatchers and nothing to do with tyrannosaurs lmao

behold, Tyrannus tyrannus

[keen forum]

https://tenor.com/view/im-a-bird-rwby-ruby-qrow-gif-15755775

[fluid inlet]

Tyrannus Tyrannus >>> T Rex

[sterile trail]

They're not even in the same clade 😭

[zealous ravine]

Mhm, I’m assuming when he said ugly torvo he was referring to some other species that is a tyrannosaur but I’m not sure tbh

[outer tusk]

Idk why would you refer it as a torvo though cause know of them look like one

[sullen cairn]

too many (north american) hadrosaurs

[woeful falcon]

This has to be like the 4th time they've been told what genus and family are

They have to either be too young for discord or the most tenacious troll

[tough parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/transformers-optimus-prime-youll-never-stop-at-one-you-wont-stop-at-one-outnumbered-gif-25547977

[outer tusk]

or they're both, which I always had a suspension on

[sudden wind]

Unlucky for you : it is : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingbird

[native kindle]

yoy should label these,,

[tough parcel]

They're all growth stages of Edmontosaurus

[native kindle]

https://tenor.com/view/american-psycho-willem-dafoe-duh-duhh-obviously-gif-16794513

[outer tusk]

Am aware

[pliant cedar]

paleoaccurate rex

[thorn grove]

Have we considered that T. rex didn't actually exist and that it was simply the musth morph of Edmontosaurus? 🤔

[west coral]

names tableau

[sullen cairn]

1. Edmontosaurus annectens
2. Magnapaulia
3. Williams Fork Kritosaur
4. Fruitland(?) Saurolophine(?)
5. Cerro del Pueblo Lambeosaur
6. Kaiparowits Parasaurolophus
7. Parasaurolophus tubicen
8. Edmontosaurus regalis
9. Anasazisaurus
10. Gryposaurus? alsatei
11. "Sabinasaura"
12. Hypacrosaurus altispinus
13. Brachylophosaurus canadensis
14. Saurolophus osborni
15. Parasaurolophus walkeri
16. Coahuilasaurus
17. Gryposaurus monumentensis
18. Hypacrosaurus stebingeri
19. Kritosaurus navajovius
20. Gryposaurus latidens
21. Parasaurolophus cyrtocristatus
22. Gryposaurus notabilis
23. Ornatops
24. Adelolophus
25. Angulomastacator
26. Corythosaurus casuarius
27. Corythosaurus intermedius
28. Lambeosaurus magnicristatus
29. Tlatolophus
30. Lambeosaurus lambei
31. Lambeosaurus clavinitialis
32. Maiasaura
33. Acristavus
34. Velafrons
35. Latirhinus

[fluid inlet]

Magnapaulia >>> everyone here

[wind prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/sheen-brain-sheen-giant-brain-sheen-jimmy-neutron-jimmy-neutron-sheen-brain-bolt-gif-15761962392470487726

[topaz shell]

Magnapaulia inferior edmontosaurus superior

[light osprey]

Seems you’ve left out Edmontosaurus japonicus subsp. Wapitiensis Edmontosaurus Kuukpikensis and the Augustynolophus morrisi

[wind prairie]

eeeerrrm edmontosaurus kuukpikensis isn't real

[zealous ravine]

Oh yeah you forgot my beloved August, how could you

[sullen cairn]

this is true however i gave up finishing it 45 minutes ago

[sullen cairn]

also what level of rot are you at where you notice kamuysaurus wapitiensis is missing but not prosaurolophus

[light osprey]

Consumed by the rot

[tame island]

Heh..

[harsh forge]

could ceratopsians gallop

[stiff osprey]

perhaps but it'd be pretty limited

Like a rhino gallop, only with even less spine movement

[halcyon cobalt]

superior mammalian flexibility

there are many such examples

[sweet field]

That is family, not genus

[topaz shell]

What is deinosuchus placement in the croc family

[thorn grove]

I read Deinocheirus at first and was very confused

but Deinosuchus is considered an Alligatoroid I believe

[frigid delta]

so Alligator?

[thorn grove]

I'm not sure if that term applies to the whole superfamily (since it also includes Caimans), but you could maybe get away with calling it that

[woeful falcon]

Alligator would apply to Alligators only I'd say. But you might see someone refer to em collectively as "gators" here and there casually. I know I have done that lol

[fluid inlet]

na.

GOAT

BIG PAUL

[wintry sluice]

It always freaks me out how absurdly huge some hadrosaurs were

[wary heath]

Imagine sniping a dinosaur.

[thorn grove]

Some Hadrosaurs have a similar hip height as even fairly large sauropods like Apatosaurus, although the sauropods still win out in weight due to their greater bulk

[topaz shell]

Nuh uh

[fluid inlet]

We respect shantungo but we solo him too

[sullen cairn]

worse saurolophus repose

[sharp dragon]

they really took the lophus out of saurolophus

[halcyon cobalt]

what would the outline of the legs and arms within the sillhouette for this be ?

also wtf is going on with the bottom jaw

[frigid delta]

all i imagined when seeing this type of art is the T. rex ghost roaming around this modern world, confused while wandering without any clear purpose
"66 million years after my death, yet i still feel confused. the world is changing, and it's getting more & more inunderstandable... i have seen everything"

[compact leaf]

which species is that?

[sterile trail]

Opinions on Gremlin slobodorum?

[light osprey]

The pro-Saurolophus

[sullen cairn]

maximus

[hardy sentinel]

Wasn't north america at the time absent of Alvarezsaurids? (I know the art is meant to just be artistic)

[hardy sentinel]

Replying to this btw

[little mauve]

No, they ranged throughout the Americas & Asia. Plenty of overlap with tyrannosaurs

[hardy sentinel]

Thought the post said Tyrannosaurus, mb. But what dinosaur would this skull belong to?

[little mauve]

The artist doesn't specify, so it's nonspecific lol

[tough parcel]

T. rex has one in Hell Creek lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trierarchuncus

[hardy sentinel]

It just looks distinctive and has a weird rounded further back crest that looks familiar

Oh nvm I'm actually dumb it's just a Rex skull

[warped peak]

CAPTAIN HOOK is an amazing name

[hardy sentinel]

Btw how accurate is the Saurian hell creek guide book? (Ignoring Dakotaraptor)

[tough parcel]

Ehhhhhhhhhhh

AFAIK environmentally it's alright, but for specific dinosaurs, it gets sketchy (Keratin frill Trike)

[light osprey]

What happened to the Wiki art 😭

[little mauve]

I haven't had a chance to look through it completely but Tom Parker is a good source on paleobotany so I trust that side of it is pretty sound

[tough parcel]

Idk but depending, I might make one

[light osprey]

Someone has to fix it immediately

[hardy sentinel]

This is probably my favorite page of the book

[hardy sentinel]

I just love the way the sub adult (I think) Tyrannosaurus is portrayed

[halcyon cobalt]

.

[tough parcel]

The ones not shaded

[tough parcel]

Those would be the ones in neutral assumedly, yes

[halcyon cobalt]

no like what would the outline be

[tough parcel]

Of the muscles?

[hardy sentinel]

Could you word it more descriptively so my sleep deprived, tiny, smooth koala brain can under the question more?

(Unless you're talking about the pitch black part which is theorized muscles and other soft tissues)

[halcyon cobalt]

would it look like this?

[tough parcel]

No

Using a trackpad so it's hard

These are the muscle attachments for all dinosaurs so

[halcyon cobalt]

thank you

[open compass]

What happened to tarbosaurus mummy

[pliant cedar]

bro has gamer spine

[tough parcel]

https://incertaesedisblog.wordpress.com/2022/10/04/the-lost-tarbosaurus-mummy/

[open compass]

We need it back

[tough parcel]

I don't think you understand the meaning of “It became clear that in the Western Sayr (named by the Polish expedition team) [sub-locality of the Nemegt locality], the articulated postcranial skeleton of Tarbosaurus with skin impression that had been discovered and left in field in 1992 [ wrong year? 1991?] had been destroyed by someone.”

[open compass]

I understand

[magic monolith]

Did charanosaurus live with tarbo or am I getting lied to

[tough parcel]

Reading the paper Wiki lists as the source and it mentions a whole lot of theropod teeth near the carcass so I assume it's a tooth referral to Tarbosaurus

[winter temple]

Yo hi

I watch your videos since you had like 5k subscribers

I'm kind of a big fan

[pliant cedar]

tarbosaurus is so cool

[tulip dove]

Man I wish it wasn't destroyed

Such a cool discovery

[sudden wind]

Even I think you did the arm too muscular ngl

[tough parcel]

I was gonna mention that I think I mightve overbeefed the arm, but I had to go to class

Which is why I mentioned me using my laptop trackpad

[sudden wind]

Here it is for crocs, though crocs are quadrupedal animals that rely on their forelimb for locomotion so ofc they are going to be more muscular than those of a dinosaur.

Here it is in birds, the 2 first drawing represents a crow's musculature and the third a pheasant's.

But the most important part is that you see where the muscles attach/go.

All terrestrial vertebrates share the same muscle attachments as they all inherited their arms from a common ancestor. You can even use a human's arm as a reference.

[gloomy cargo]

So. What would y'all think is the most controversial theory in the paleontology field? I'd love to rabbit hole today, lol

But please keep thoughts civil, of course

[fluid inlet]

Guys how paleo accurate is this

[sudden wind]

Probably stuffs going on with neocolonialism such as specimens stolen from their native countries by their colonizers. Most people I discuss with are all for these fossils to be returned but it still is a topic that's quite very much on going with Germany owning a lot of South American fossils. Another thing is of course fossil brought or transported illegally out of their countries (that's something that happens a lot in Morocco unfortunately). Some researchers take advantage of them to do quite a bunch of publication by buying fossils in the market (Longrich being an example).

Private collection owning fossils from a high scientific interest is also quite a topic that has to be brought up. I am fine with people owning small fossils like local shark tooth, ammonites or dinosaur tooth but stuffs like almost complete fossils that are unique and could help us to understand Earth's biodiveristy through time is a big no no to me.

Another thing that goes on in the paleontological field when it comes to job availability is that most big groups that captivate the public have a huge majority of men working on them, while smaller less spectacular animals or organisms mostly have women working on them.

There is also the stuffs going on with Jack Horner who apparently married one of his student that's like 20 years younger than him. Pretty disgusting if you may ask me but that's only a personal's man life.

Within the field of study itself without being too much of etical :

• The origin of Angiosperms
• The origin of animals
• What the hell were Ediacaran animals
• Are Silesaurs dinosaurs
• The origin of filter feeding in whales
• Was Thescelosaurus digging
• Theropod lips
• Are Ctenophora more basal than Porifera
• The classification of Tullimonstrum
• When did sharks actually first appear in the fossil record
• The origin of wings in Insects
• Did Eugeneodonts have pelvic fins and so claspers

[zealous ravine]

Not sure what species it’s supposed to be but a few odd things pop up

[zealous ravine]

wtf megaraptorans are

[wind prairie]

lbt is not accurate in any way bro

[winged bramble]

on jack horner: he was 65 at the time, she was 19. they're since divorced but still, yikes.

another controversial theory in paleontology is horner's "trex was 100% a scavenger" theory, where he claims it probably couldn't run or hunt. most scientists disagree with this nowadays though

[wind prairie]

he also claimed torosaurus and triceratops were the same animal

[woeful falcon]

I'd hardly call that controversial. Flawed maybe but not controversial. No more than claiming stygimoloch, dracorex and pachycephalosaurus were the same animal which he also did

[wind prairie]

how is it not controversial it's literally been disproven

[woeful falcon]

Next to all of this?

Including other things Horner's been up to, a hypothesis that Triceratops and Torosaurus represent growth stages in the same vein as Pachy, Stygi and Dracorex doesn't really constitute.

[winged bramble]

the rex one isn't as controversial now as it used to be, but i guess everyone pretty much hated horner for a while lol. i think there's an interview where he mentions elementary school kids booing and throwing things at him when he went to speak at their school

[zealous ravine]

I’d argue controversial means there’s still argument about it. If there’s a clear consensus it’s no longer controversial

[wind prairie]

ok we don't have to be pedantic about this, it was controversial

[compact leaf]

I think it’s worth pointing out that the pachy comparison has actual weight behind it too, the trike toro debate never really did

[woeful falcon]

Yeah but even so, I don't consider it to be in the same conversation as the other things mentioned. And even so, a hypothesis is hypothesis. It's not like it was a completely illogical thought when you have Pachycepholosaurus on the brain too

[sterile trail]

Bruh, WWD Anky looks so offended for no reason

[fluid inlet]

The top right always makes me laugh

[bitter quest]

Meme potential

[gloomy cargo]

I remember the theropod lip debate going around a few years ago.

I've never understood why people get so heated about either side.

They either did or they didn't. Unless you're betting money, no harm if you're wrong, so why get mad???

[sharp dragon]

Because a dinosaur can literally only be cool if it makes a reference to/is cooler than a tyrannosaurus

argggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[tough parcel]

Yea, that's...how the media cycle works???

[thorn grove]

People like being correct and also like making assumptions about why others believe what they do. At least that's why I used to take things more seriously than I do now.

[tough parcel]

The issue is that's not correct because saying dinosaurs didn't have lips is like saying 2+2 =/= 4

It only became a thing to justify nostalgia

[gloomy cargo]

Hmm.

I don't get it, lol.

The goal of a science field should be to make sure the info you are spreading is actually correct. Not just spread it because you want it to be correct. That's not science then, just propoganda

[thorn grove]

Unfortunately most people aren't scientists and don't necessarily care about that. I've even heard of actual scientists acting like that. It can be really challenging for a lot of people to get away from their egos.

[gloomy cargo]

Oh I understand it from the general public.

But if you put your ego before the facts, or aren't willing to admit something could go either way until more evidence for either is discovered, then you ain't really a scientist. In my probably unpopular and possible harsh opinion.

I mean I know they're human too. But eh. 🤷

[stiff osprey]

The only scientist who was really that invested in it was Carr, I'd hardly call the rest scientists