paleontology

[zinc solstice]

Arandaspis is Way Better though

[cloud badger]

Perfect life form equal to spinophaurus

[zinc solstice]

Clydagnathus Would Destroy both of them with beyond negative Difficulty honestly

[cloud badger]

Pft what a bad take it's not even earth worm level it's not competing with the goats

[zinc solstice]

Clydagnathus Would Just Vaporize them both with its Lazer eyes and it has Durability that can Survive Red Giant suns and black holes, jokes aside though Clydagnathus could just swim to the soft, not armored parts of Sacabambaspis and just Bite off, (I know it's Jawless but I'm not Using the other word) a chunk of flesh then let the Sacabambaspis bleed out

[woeful falcon]

You've just described the cenozoic

[cloud badger]

Counter argument it could just bite the clyds tale also it not winning against this

[zinc solstice]

With what teeth? Also Sacabambaspis ain't winning against this

[cloud badger]

I'm just trying to avoid the other words but again f sacaba negs
This reminds me of the average animal vs TikToks

[zinc solstice]

Liar, Clydagnathus beyond neg diffs Sacabambaspis

Clydagnathus would just Shoot red giant Suns at it or Would Just Delete the Multiverse then Rebuild the Multiverse While Making it that Sacabambaspis never Exists. But for real, Clydagnathus would just latch on like a lamprey and just rip off peices of flesh and slowly eat it alive

[cloud badger]

Basically lamp ray vs sun fish

[fluid inlet]

I remember being a kid watching Jurassic park and thinking dilo wasn’t that big ( compared to us)

[glad carbon]

undersized instead of oversized is so rare

[warped peak]

Juvenile*

I don't know how that always ended up so lost, the idea of the JP Dilo just... not being grown

[velvet burrow]

Because it was never mentioned or implied

And yes there's the "big brothers" thing Nedry said but it's more likely he just meant "larger dinosaur" or "larger theropod" in a very layman, mocky or nervous way

[topaz shell]

Isn’t the dominion dilo bigger?

[bright veldt]

by a little bit I think but not much

[warped peak]

Cenozoic is at least ruled by a different family

Not sure what the future holds but I'm sure a lot of what we've had is gonna seem less interesting when the second wave of mammals arrive after the Holocene extinction is done

[woeful falcon]

It's more than likely not. Dilophosaurus was never really depicted as larger in any of the films, and Nedry is a computer guy who tried to play fetch with it. "Big brothers" probably didn't refer to other Dilophosaurus

[bright veldt]

Yeah it's not. Given Nedry didn't seem to know dilos were dangerous to begin with I doubt he'd know it was a juvenile or not either.

[stiff osprey]

The Telltale game also shows the small Dilos as being adults, despite the same game claiming that they reach 20 ft long

[woeful falcon]

Things that will never happen but I want: Jurassic Park remake(s) closer to the book's narrative with accurate depictions of the animals

Especially TLW

[outer tusk]

Dilophosauurs if it was even more peak:

[fluid inlet]

yep exactly this

[outer tusk]

^^^^^

[woeful falcon]

Wrong opinion

[outer tusk]

okbud, pal, fella, person

[woeful falcon]

Dilophosaurus > any sinosaurus this is objective sorry scamp

[stiff osprey]

triassicus clears sinensis AND wetherelii

[outer tusk]

just waiting dan to remake it though

[woeful falcon]

Had me in the first half ngl

[outer tusk]

Monolopho mogs all of them!

[stiff osprey]

monolopho has a nice skull and then it has nothing else going for it

no wonder he was trapped in the foam dimension

[outer tusk]

btw random I was looking through your DA and I found your Arkansaurus again and was wondering to myself why does this theropod feel so odd looking

[woeful falcon]

The boy

[outer tusk]

I love theropods that acutally have full intact skulls

[sullen cairn]

tsintaosaurini out of context

[daring grotto]

i never knew that was a tribe

[pliant cedar]

(Sauro may also be the 3rd largest theropod to ever live if you base it off the very fragmentary leviathian specimen)

[halcyon cobalt]

woah generic dinosaur got to a leviabillion tons

[white matrix]

how accurate is this sinoceratops skeletal

[outer tusk]

You didn't post Anything

[pliant cedar]

me trying to argue that deinonychus was the largest animal to ever live (i scaled the largest specimen)

[zinc solstice]

I just found this Depiction of Kaprosuchus and I don't believe that it is accurate one bit, but Is it Actually Accurate?

[outer tusk]

This was never proved or suggested as accurate by any means

[tough parcel]

Not in the slightest, that was made as a joke

[fluid inlet]

Rip to both

[outer tusk]

But may SOME chance kaprosuchus had to be lipped, it would definitely not look like that ( plz remove this slow mode )

[fluid inlet]

Uhhh why are they trying to say kapro looks like a hippo 😂

[tough parcel]

It was made as a joke/April Fool's

[zinc solstice]

Are there any known Mesozoic mammals with venomous Spurs?

[stray wren]

Probably, that stuff doesn't fossilize all that well though

[white matrix]

how accurate is this sinoceratops skeletal

[tough parcel]

@sullen cairn do you have your better Sinoceratops?

[open compass]

Kapro isn't a hippo

[sharp canyon]

I love joke reconstructions

[scenic flame]

I don't think it's very good at all

[white matrix]

could you send a better one?

[scenic flame]

https://raulramosart.artstation.com/projects/rReox6 not sure if there's any better edits etc of this

[stray wren]

Yeah that one's pretty much the best one

[wraith kindle]

Platypus’s ancestors certainly did.

[steep sundial]

Platypus doesnt count its a freak /j i love you platypus

[zinc solstice]

I thought it sent Twice so I deleted it but It Accidentally deleted both of the messages so Il send it again,

Today I just learned Ornithocheiromorphs Closest relatives are Pteranodontians

[flat pond]

Well I can safely say that PK is certainly cooking

[zinc solstice]

Did Some Ankylosaurs and Nodosaurs use Gastrolith Stones?

[sullen cairn]

i have this edit of the already posted gat one

[pliant cedar]

i really want the game but imma wait till it gets properly underway

[ancient knoll]

What's up with the big boi version?
Different skull measurements?

[outer tusk]

I think so iicr Table also mention it's 6 tonnes

[sullen cairn]

scalebar of a different specimen

[river condor]

I wish i could unsee this

[woeful falcon]

why on earth would that be accurate

[river condor]

Indeed

[flat pond]

Another shot of Ankylosaurus

[heady thunder]

We should have gotten this over ano

[steep sundial]

Love me some Ankle o saurus

[fluid inlet]

What is Kenyan Giant? I never heard of it, at least I don’t think.

[crude latch]

gojicenter

[bright veldt]

Currently undescribed abelisaur from Kenya. It's been known for a solid decade now.

[fluid inlet]

Damn for a second I was thinking it might be the unnamed abelisaurid found in the bahariya formation from last year.

[bright veldt]

No

[fluid inlet]

So apparently a near complete skull has been found of it, why hasn’t it been named?

[sullen cairn]

why would the kenyan giant be from egypt

iirc the skull elements aren't too complete but its been "supposed to be published soon" for the last few years

[bright veldt]

Keep in mind Allosaurus jimmadseni had about 20 years between being dug up and being properly published and given a name.

[fluid inlet]

20 years is a lot of time but I guess the good thing about that is maybe the size estimations hasn’t changed much since then or am I wrong ?

[plucky basin]

well guy had a good idea, but since kaprosuchus is a crocodilian and they dont got lips.

[zinc solstice]

I know, I don't believe Even one bit that the reconstruction image is accurate

[bright veldt]

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx7WJSyC3FaV8vT9zcfZlHypnpaHq6v-xL?si=3ULcVcrK4Fq6XRMX

[woeful falcon]

Bit of a better look at the giant than anything that'll come out of goji center ever

[fluid inlet]

Oh yeah the models were hideous but sometimes I’ll watch anyways lol

[white matrix]

bro they always cook

[white matrix]

thank you🫶

[white matrix]

is there a high amount of specimens that haven't been classified yet?

[bright veldt]

afaik no? There's a few well known allosaurus that were either A. fragilis or A. sp. that got put into A. jimmadseni when it was described (Like both Big Als). It's just that it was the holotype where this new species was actually noticed.

[mild parcel]

https://youtube.com/shorts/mzOLC5jkcJ4?si=id-ZBbo7FB1KBEBN

[tall vale]

probably couldn’t even hit Rex’s ankles due to the tail range of motion being really low

[bright veldt]

How high do you think a rex ankle is? It's an ankle.

[tall vale]

And you severely underestimate how low ankys tail range of motion is

That is not hitting a ankle

[woeful falcon]

what about that couldn't hit an ankle if a Tyrannosaurus got close enough

mind you they don't have like, exceptionally long tails. rexes would need to get close anyway (which if its hunting an ankylosaurus, that's what it will do)

[sharp canyon]

Before reading the context I thought that was a wall spring thing for a second

[tall vale]

and if rex is able to avoid going near the tail and gets in range of the head? The tail doesn’t extend that far out and I doubt anky could turn fast enough to avoid getting bit in the head

Or maybe rex just didn’t hunt it at all, but it still doesn’t mean that anky can hit its ankle

[woeful falcon]

I mean, an ankylosaur is going to defend itself. if a rex is going for the head, need only turn with it

[tall vale]

Was anky even able to turn fast? Only things I know that can turn fast in hell creek are trike and rex

(Not counting smaller animals just the bigger ones ofc)

[crude latch]

pretty compact i’d imagine so

[woeful falcon]

that I couldn't tell you. but the point is, an ankylosaur isn't not going to defend itself. The two spots I would think it could hit a rex is either the ankles which are close to the ground, or the head if it goes down for a bite

[white matrix]

why do y'all think animals have the irl turn radius of pot playables💀

[native ravine]

https://x.com/Kaek_art/status/1829272082573869439?t=M2kRSG4kwxCnlTv_q4BffA&s=19
who is to say that spino didn't look like this?

Kaek's Art (@Kaek_art) on X

North Africa, 99 million years ago, Spinosaurus Miku eating an Onchopristis Teto as brunch #miku #Paleomiku #WalkingwithMiku #MikuThroughtheAges #KasaneTeto #spinosaurus #onchopristis

Twitter · Aug 29, 2024, 9:37 PM

[tall vale]

Not exactly what I was thinking in my mind but ok

[sullen cairn]

can't anky smash its tail on the ground for AoE attacks and negate the mobility problems regardless

[tall vale]

Truly

[bright veldt]

Outdated skeletals but point still stands. The tail's neutal position is literally at rex ankle height. https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a1a6675fcd4c0e095833346e619f6987

[stiff osprey]

Ankylosaurs don't turn extremely fast for a dinosaur to my knowledge, so it would be possible for a rex to outflank one and kill it by going for the head. But I feel like this is obvious from the fact that T.rex is a giant apex predator and would logically be able to hunt the herbivores in its environment

And it being possible doesn't mean T.rex would always succeed, so a rex would logically avoid attacking Anky if it was able to find easier prey

[tall vale]

Alright cool

[bright veldt]

The general go to for most tyrannosaurs seems to be hadrosaurs with "literally anything else will do" in the meantime.

[sullen cairn]

except for the springtime when they have engorged musth sacs

[tall vale]

https://tenor.com/view/tyrannosaurus-edmontosaurus-dinosaurs-funny-gif-3459036540303444400

[halcyon cobalt]

hadrosaurs learned karate in winter for fighting season in spring

[fossil ingot]

Euplo>Anky(Euplo is cooler)

[sullen cairn]

if by euaplo you meant platypelta than yes

[fossil ingot]

Nu uh(idk wtf is even Platypelta)

[stiff osprey]

unfortunately euoplocephalus exploded and is now like 8 different taxa

[fossil ingot]

OOF

[stiff osprey]

euoplocephalus itself is still valid mind you it just lost like 80% of the specimens that were assigned to it

[fossil ingot]

Ohhh
Then still cooler than Anky

[turbid forum]

Best fish ever
He was a blessing from the lords
To turn the oceans into holy water

[sullen cairn]

average hadrosaur adult size plasticity

[turbid forum]

Edmontosaurus?

[sullen cairn]

maiasaura

[pliant cedar]

one bite could take an tany out easily, it makes u wonder how it defended itself

[halcyon cobalt]

I like to think it had humongous colonies. realistically it probably just fled

[pliant cedar]

the water is safe (a phytosaur is waiting)

[white matrix]

thoughts on this shantungosaurus

[heady thunder]

Crazy fight idea, the rex goes over the anky, and lays on it, suffocating it under 8+ tons of awesomeness

[silver canopy]

please tell me this is a mostly accurate reconstruction oh my god.

[heady thunder]

That looks so awesome

[honest cobalt]

Never heard of this before, but I love it!

[sudden wind]

https://fixvx.com/mt_seaturtle/status/1829802554601140548

[frigid delta]

hydra turtle before kenyan giant official name is crazy 💀💀💀

[mild parcel]

A little lad

[warped peak]

That is the up to date one yes. 2023, it got shrunk alongside Dunk

[rapid vine]

https://www.mdpi.com/2937930

[olive holly]

So I see online it says that Heterodontosaurus was estimated to weigh between 5lbs and some larger specimen could have got around 22lbs. How accurate is that larger estimate of 22lbs?

[warped peak]

Well considering the average cat is around 7 pounds and I know several people with cats exceeding 30 pounds, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable. Especially if there's sexual dimorphism in the species

[olive holly]

That makes pretty good sense to me 🙂 thank you

[silver canopy]

Oh my goodness he is W I D E

People may not like it but that's what peak fish looks like

[fluid pond]

if the in-game spino ever gets a tlc, i really hope they give it the tadpole tail

[hallow spear]

If by Euoplo you mean not euoplo (Hartmans is like 90 different creatures)
Youd be better using GATs

[fossil ingot]

Idk which one that

[hallow spear]

https://www.deviantart.com/getawaytrike/art/When-we-were-Euoplocephalus-602121526
Top to bottom,
Euoplocephalus tutus (composite),
Dyoplosaurus acutosquameus (holotype),
Scolosaurus cutleri (composite, includes "Oohkotokia"),
and Anodontosaurus lambei (composite).

[sudden wind]

Old, could need re-upload but I found this relic : https://youtu.be/mZ_bkMq1LNA?si=n32z4lSvnPPWePCz

[tranquil quartz]

What?!!

Where do Wikis get this stuff from

[fossil ingot]

How big is Euoplo

[bright veldt]

6 meters, 3 tonsish?

[fossil ingot]

Still a big boi I see

[velvet burrow]

If i had to guess, it's alleged carcharodontosaurid teeth from Maastrichtian Brazil that are just abeli teeth

[sullen cairn]

from what i can tell the current euoplo's seem to hang somewhere vaguely around 1.5-2t give or take
although platyepelta would indeed be 3t+ which is why its the best

[zinc solstice]

Wich species of Adocus was the Dinosaur park Formation one?

[sullen cairn]

half dozen+ hadrosaurs of identical frame were truly necessary to make the judithian interesting

[stiff osprey]

parasaurolophus
corythosaurus
corythosaurus but worse
corythosaurus with too much hair gel
corythosaurus with an axe stuck in its head
corythosaurus with erectile dysfunction

maiasaura

[outer tusk]

nah random it's parasaurolophus, para 2-6 and maisaura!

[steady rock]

i feel like a forgotten gem of paleo media is prehestoric park, how accurate were some of the more obscure species from it? like Incisivosaurus and Pulmonoscorpius?

[topaz shell]

EWWW THAT INCISIVO UGLY

[steady rock]

its not that bad

[summer spoke]

I've been out of the loop for like 3 years, what exactly changed for Euoplocephalus?

[compact leaf]

basically a bunch of stuff got split out of it, euoplo is still valid but there’s a lot fewer specimens attributed to it now

[summer spoke]

Oh damnn

When did that happen lol

[bright veldt]

That one isn't the best either

[turbid forum]

Lambeo is bigger than para and also where tf is tsintaosaurus

[bright veldt]

Lambeo is not bigger than para.

[sullen cairn]

prehistoric kingdom and its consequences
although laramidian tsintosaurin would be sick as hell

[white matrix]

edmontosaurus mummy says hello

[storm heron]

Who on earth starts from right to left?

[bright veldt]

Yeah that threw me off lol

[storm heron]

Just claim individual variation and boom, Lambeosaurus can be bigger than Parasaurolophus.

[storm heron]

I confused myself twice by looking/thinking about it, ha.

[cunning basin]

How I sleep.

[keen mauve]

dous anyone here know anything about kryptops and rugops?

[sullen cairn]

kryptops is a really sad animal

[crude latch]

cheer him up at least

[keen mauve]

: (

i did kinda know that tbh

[steady rock]

rugops lived to the end of the dinosaur edge along side isisaurus

nevermind thats rajasaurus.

[cunning basin]

That is an unfortunate name.

[steady rock]

which one

[cunning basin]

The second one.

am i going to be banished without even playing the game

[steady rock]

isisaurus?

[cunning basin]

Sure.

[steady rock]

sauropods have it the worse because their name origins are really cool and then you have people who always wanna say it sounds like a much much worse thing

[cunning basin]

Oh, for sure.

And then there's Brachytrachelopan.

[steady rock]

whats wrong with that?

[cunning basin]

Never in my life have I struggled to pronounce something as much as Brachytrachelopan.

[steady rock]

hm, try
brachy-tr-ach-elo-pan

[halcyon cobalt]

ack I think instead of ach ( for pronunciation )

[cunning basin]

Brackeetrackellopan.

[steady rock]

its so dumb looking

[crude latch]

you think that’s hard to say?

try Benggwigwishingasuchus eremicarminis

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsbl.2024.0136

[steady rock]

i think you just placed a curse on me

why do they give the longest names to the smallest creaturres

[crude latch]

had to do some searching here to find the actual name

[cunning basin]

This creature haunted the back of my mind for months and has returned for my head.

[steady rock]

my favorite dinosaur name is BEG

[cunning basin]

BEG? BEG FOR WHAT?

[steady rock]

mercy at its hands

do we know what niche leptoceratops would've filled?

[cunning basin]

Small, perhaps burrowing herbivore, methinks.

[fluid inlet]

By any chance does anyone have a size comparison between triceratops Horridus and Eotriceratops ?

[frigid delta]

i don't think we have a Horridus one but atleast we got Prorsus
#paleontology message

[tough parcel]

Horridus and prorsus would’ve been the same size on average

[fluid inlet]

That’s xerinsularis? I was not expecting it to be that small. I know Horridus is bigger.

[frigid delta]

yeah the only big thing Eotrike has is the head
but the largest overall still goes to Trike

[fluid inlet]

Yeah I know the biggest known specimen is from prosus , would love to see a size comp for this one. https://www.fossilrealm.com/blogs/news/willard-s-journey-the-tale-of-an-enormous-triceratops-skeleton

But damn I was not expecting it to be that small , eotricera

[sly viper]

Chat what is the largest hadrosaurid

[zinc solstice]

Shantungosaurus

[sly viper]

Damn really? Thought it was edmontosaurus annectans

[white matrix]

if you're referring to xrex that's a huge outlier

the average annectans is about twice as small, there's been a lot more consistent sizes of shantungosaurus being around 14 meters
so outliers could've been way way bigger

[tough parcel]

Xrex is also still smaller than the larger Shant estimates

[white matrix]

well yeah of course but still bigger than the smaller ones

[tough parcel]

What, how is that relevant

[hybrid saddle]

Eated it

[white matrix]

????
I'm saying x-rex is a huge outlier, being so big it outsizes the smaller shantungosaurus

[tough parcel]

They asked for the largest hadrosaur and I was supporting your answer by saying even if we only used Xrex as an example, it would still be smaller than some Shant specimens

It being larger than the smaller Shant specimens is irrelevant rn

[white matrix]

well he/she thought edmontosaurus was the largest so I thought it was relevant 🤷

??

sizes can hugely vary and shantungosaurus will probably be the biggest hadrosaur until something new is found
just look at polar bears for example
average weight is 800-1000 Lbs

the largest recorded polar bear was a little over a ton, that's more than 200% increase in size
18+ ton shantungosaurus could've definitely existed although people argue against with more recent skeletals

[outer tusk]

Could you say this dewlap looks feasible on animal like albertosaurus?

[white matrix]

their shoulder girdles were very efficient in bearing weight as well

[white matrix]

well sense it's a tyrannosaurid it definitely is after a tarbosaurus was found with a preserved dewlap

[halcyon cobalt]

whuh

[white matrix]

please disregard what I just said as there's no physical evidence, only a description

but it is soft tissue, look at regalis, we had no idea of it having a fleshy crest until it was found

[outer tusk]

Ok?

[white matrix]

I'm yapping and didn't give you a good answer but the dewlap doesn't look out of the ordinary and it does add more character, I'd say it's good

[tough parcel]

Oh this looks great

[heady thunder]

That reminds me of TIs herrera

[pliant cedar]

looks like an apatosaurus with back problems

[storm heron]

Ah, Albertosaurus, the boy who never grew.

[summer spoke]

Dicraeosaurid bodies I swear...

[frigid delta]

"Maip was just an animal"
the animal in question:
https://x.com/AbigailDX1/status/1830270154535493796?t=tRCSutZrneque7vwBCaZVw&s=19

Abigail DX (@AbigailDX1) on X

MAIP "sombra de la muerte que mata con viento frío".
En mi opinión,el dinosaurio argentino perfecto para protagonizar una peli de terror, recomiendo abrir la imagen si es que no se ve bien

#Art #ArtistOnTwitter #horror #dinosaurs #maip #Argentina #MaipMacrothorax

Twitter · Sep 1, 2024, 3:43 PM

[summer spoke]

I would note we barely have anything particularly diagnostic remains (could be wrong tho)

[steady rock]

how does it stop it from being a animal

[heady thunder]

My cat did the same

[wraith kindle]

From that and the meme in the memes channel, I guess it has a spooky sound.

[steady rock]

you know what also has a spooky sound? a kiwi

[snow python]

Is the 5.15m Liliensternus really a subadult?

[mild parcel]

https://youtube.com/shorts/8JhzkBk0hc4?si=icrayv2oSx82en4L

[pliant cedar]

it defo says boo before killing its prey fr

[sudden wind]

The dewlap is poorly mentioned and has no actually verifiable evidences tho.

[pliant cedar]

for now its just speculation

[white matrix]

yes I covered that

[steady rock]

i know this may be a dumb question, but would titanoboa spend as much time in water as crocodiles/alligators do or less?

[tough parcel]

I would assume more considering it was a large piscivorous snake

[fluid inlet]

https://youtu.be/XGWDBbw4yOU?si=GJGkRYKX1KeDiqwt

Clickbait title lol but good quality video

[kindred lagoon]

Does anyone know where the troodontids having venom trope come from?

[crude latch]

jp

[bright veldt]

Yeah it's just a made up Jurassic Park thing.

[warped peak]

Not if it's discussing a 50 foot long Deinosuchus

[flat pond]

Man this Coahuilasaurus by ddinodan goes hard

[bright veldt]

It's not (hence the clickbait). It brings up that estimate as something that existed but quickly dismisses it.

[bright veldt]

So a paper came out today about the realities of estimating body size (and shrinking) of extinct animals and the impacts it has science-wise https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ece3.70218

https://x.com/ausar_the/status/1830757788068274231?t=l-AAjCYLLShAPyi32WYPZg&s=09

Ausarchosaur (is counting the days til WWD 2025) (@ausar_the) on X

Wow…

Twitter · Sep 3, 2024, 12:00 AM

[stiff osprey]

Yay, carnivoraforum has made it onto a published paper!

[bright veldt]

If you're wondering why papers generally avoid estimating/discussing body size, or sometimes display outdated larger estimations. This is why.

Probably the most notorious recent case is Perucetus (which the paper covers) considering that the animal was, more likely than not, exaggerated in its size specifically to get media attention.

[stiff osprey]

lmao the pliosaurs and Glyptaspis

[native kindle]

is that the jw plane quetz in a scientific paper

[stiff osprey]

No it's the initial published estimate of Quetzalcoatlus as having a 15-21m wingspan

[native kindle]

2 meters off, close enough😭 but sweet christ that's huge

[zealous ravine]

All of the bird man’s pieces go hard ngl

[flat pond]

Tis true.

[hallow spear]

I saw it mentioned ornithischians then realised it doesn’t actually do anything with that mention 😔

[sudden wind]

That's so fricking stupid OMFG. Such a toddler mindset.

[pearl perch]

Thoughts on a similar design for a new official map based off of Jurassic Pangea that would include the aquatics more?

[sly viper]

Damn though tuso was larger

[deft pecan]

i thought the deinosuchus would be bigger lol

[bright veldt]

That one's a bit iffy ye

[sly viper]

I think it is

But not as large as the one in the picture

[white matrix]

size comparison between zhuchengtyrannus and the smallest mature adult rex?

[tulip gyro]

jake always does clickbaits

but is reliable in the vids

[zealous venture]

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFEzXnIQVwV97D5AqZHKh7mN6rVa2Bccf&feature=shared

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFEzXnIQVwV-HhepdeDKbXtGWEo5np_Wt&feature=shared

[pliant cedar]

yall think that dinosaurs could do well in the early holocene (just take humans out of the picture)

[vapid lotus]

i actually agree alot with this paper but for different reasons than most people will get out of this like that it brought up how we have to be cautious with our estimates and take into account limitations we have better

[zealous ravine]

New ceratopsian just dropped

[magic monolith]

Fr?

[zealous ravine]

From Japan

[tough parcel]

Sussyamongus sussyguy

[onyx sedge]

The name matches you 🐼

[zealous ravine]

The name is actually pronounced sasayama-gnomus, not sayasaya-magnomus funny enough, as it’s named after gnomes

[hallow spear]

Sussyamongus sussyguy

[warped peak]

Sassy Gnome

[zealous ravine]

It’s the gnome from the Sasayama Basin

It’s from the same formation as the new troodontid Hypnovenator apparently!

[warped peak]

Sassy Gnome vs Sleep Predator

[lavish frigate]

Is there by chance a paper debunking that weird “‫Sinosauropteryx‬ feathers are just collagen fibers” thing? It’d come in handy if one could be bestowed upon me

[broken shale]

Ofcourse it’s from Japan

[bright veldt]

@blazing flax https://www.researchgate.net/publication/348674822_Reconstruction_of_the_adductor_chamber_and_predicted_bite_force_in_pterodactyloids_Pterosauria?_tp=eyJjb250ZXh0Ijp7ImZpcnN0UGFnZSI6Il9kaXJlY3QiLCJwYWdlIjoiX2RpcmVjdCJ9fQ

[blazing flax]

ty!

[plucky basin]

opinion?

[blazing flax]

I think people tend to go a bit far with the thal bite force thing, those numbers are absolutely tiny and there's no way it could justify bone break imo (':

[bright veldt]

Yeah no idk y people would suggest that

[blazing flax]

probably a misunderstanding of 'highest bite force' without the context of general pterosaur trends

[worthy dust]

How to pronounce it

[worthy dust]

Wasn't there something about X.rex being something other than Edmontosaurus

[zealous ravine]

Sah-say-ah-mah-nome-us

[zealous ravine]

No, x-rex is edmonto

[warped peak]

Do we have any fossil evidence of Pharygeal Jaws?

[steady rock]

whats everyone opinon on this lad

[frigid delta]

Sussyamongus sussyguy

[outer tusk]

7,300kg

[frigid delta]

is that TTT max size or?

[outer tusk]

yes

[topaz shell]

I love me some hadrosaurs

[wind prairie]

so are all fossil species really drastically oversized?

[sullen cairn]

there's an abstract about how becky's giant (and by extension prolly x-rex) look more like a saurolophin than edmontosaurus which could be the result of either them being saurolophins or some hitherto unknown edmontosaurus terminal ontogeny thing

[compact leaf]

obviously this means there’s a giant hell creek saurolophin

[sullen cairn]

of course

[compact leaf]

and the secret hell creek lambeosaurine got bigger than both

[sullen cairn]

if we go by the internet parasaurolophus scaling of 250% larger than anything the measurements actually suggest the hell creek parasaurolophus humerus would be up to ~15t

[warped peak]

What actually is the largest Para size currently accepted out of curiosity?

[bright veldt]

8.5 tons w/ Tubicens?

[warped peak]

What actually is the story with 12 ton Para? I know it's not a real thing but am curious

[sullen cairn]

8.5t tubicen is technically in theory still a way of scaling the animal but i prefer ~6t for the thing given it adheres far better to the measurements
plus fadeno's recon of the generally agreed-to-be larger tubicen skull really doesn't seem to agree with how the elements articulate and for some reason he reconstructs a seemingly complete jugal as incomplete

~6.2t here

[compact leaf]

what’s the biggest cyrto at this point?

[sullen cairn]

prolly the type

[white matrix]

edmontosaurus are saurolophins

[sullen cairn]

saurolophin as in saurolophini

[compact leaf]

remind me the mass on that

[white matrix]

oh

[crude latch]

snail

[sullen cairn]

fadeno's is a bit over 5.5t iirc

[compact leaf]

that’s what I thought, I lurked on this conversation in ornithischia the other day

[warped peak]

New extinct fish unlocked: Pegasus volans

(Awaiting a formal scientific rename still)

[distant mauve]

Werid little guy I assume it's tiny?

[light osprey]

Perhaps even the secret Hell Creek Brachylophosaurin

Resident of the upland

[compact leaf]

focusing on mystery animals from known formations to cope with the pain of having no idea what’s going on in eastern NA
and south africa
and northern europe

[worthy dust]

When will hell creek stop being this cool🙏

[open hare]

Love me the mammoth cube

[paper timber]

Is this real?!
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/matching-dinosaur-footprints-discovered-in-africa-and-south-america-180984997/

[stiff osprey]

It's real, but the title is clickbait. They are not footprints of the same individual dinosaur (as far as we know) but of the same species or a closely related one

[woeful falcon]

Yeah. As it says in the article, Africa and South America were connected at the time. So that's how you have that

[tawdry shadow]

@fleet creek
This is what the Hogwartsia pachy sub in-game is based on/referencing.

[fleet creek]

oooh interesting

[deft pecan]

goated

[wraith kindle]

It's a chunk of tundra with tusks sticking out, not really anything to it.

[zealous ravine]

Side note, D. hogwartsia is now considered just a juvenile Pachycephalosaurus spinifer

And Stygimoloch spinifer is now considered a second species of Pachycephalosaurus, which previously only had P. wyomingensis

[wraith kindle]

Lots of fish have pharyngeal teeth, but I don't know of any fossils with pharyngeal jasw.

[vapid holly]

petition to make Sarc the new Trex 😂 (yes I know it says deino but Sarc is larger anyways. Can't tell me they didn't hunt the same prey.)

[sharp canyon]

Me when the giant croc wasn't a picky eater

[vapid holly]

Or they're like the same size. Forgot how it went

[sharp canyon]

I really don't see why a whole study had to be done on this. It's a very safe assumption that Deino would take anything it can drag under

[tulip dove]

Deinosuchus was bigger

Sarco was around like 3.5-4 tons and Deino was somewhere around 8 to potentially over 13 tons if it still holds up

[keen mauve]

I do know that Deino was bigger than Sarco but not that big of a difference

[vapid holly]

Damn Jesus bro I was insanely off. I thought I read somewhere that they were similar but deino would literally crush Sarc apparently by sheer weight.

[warped peak]

Yeah Deino eating a juvenile Appalachio isn't a big surprise

It is also worth noting that the 13 ton Deinosuchus is an extreme outlier among the species and not a standard by any means

[tulip dove]

Yeap

[bright veldt]

Sarcosuchus has shrunk significantly over the years. It’s now about 10 meters long vs the 12 meters that Deinosuchus got to. At double the weight too.

[deft pecan]

awwww. I thought the deinosuchus was big a chunky

[outer tusk]

I mean it's still massve

[frigid delta]

WHAT IS AI HOSHINO DOING WITH SARCO

[outer tusk]

lmao

[velvet burrow]

Size comparisons using anime girls and JoJo's characters is my favorite genre

[magic monolith]

I WILL compare Dio to Mapusaurus and i will not be stopped

[bright veldt]

I prefer the spin-off personally https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1015700979016024134/1263826975470915648/A89F0851-3B39-49BC-9807-7CA548414D60.png?ex=66d8f3d7&is=66d7a257&hm=1fc16b57fb92f1b19e9cc8afea04d84eb5039790784d11e76121d967382e8ebf&

[fluid inlet]

Sarcosuchus Will always be the most iconic Crocodyliform I don’t care how much bigger Deinosuchus is and Purussaurus.

[white matrix]

people always look at sizes of prehistoric animals but can you just imagine how hot their internal temperatures were, especially their hearts

[worthy dust]

If it's D.rugos they are about the same but riogendanis and "hatcheri" (if it's not just a big rio) are much larger

[fossil ingot]

9.5m long vs 12m+ and 2x the weight is quite the difference

[fossil ingot]

This better ngl

[frigid delta]

is that @pearl briar 's?

[fossil ingot]

Yuh
I saved it when yoi answer me back then

[scenic flame]

Tmk that's not quite right, we have mtiple huge deinosuchus specimens, they're just generally fragmentary

[blazing flax]

how long they were is less relevant; Sarco has a noticably different jaw shape (narrow) than Deino (wide) which has significant implications on their diet

[storm heron]

Im curious, do all of these fragmentary specimens scale to 13,000kg (If so, how reliable is it?)? What is the general/most common size of the specimens we have?

[turbid forum]

Sarco looked more like a gharial

[blazing flax]

ye, though don't get me wrong its skull is still far more robust than a gharial's
if you see them irl they're like... it's proportionally thin but it's still a pretty broad??? beefy skull all things considered but yeah it's def not gonna be hunting things in the same way as deino really it wouldn't be able to handle as much stress

[turbid forum]

Yeah it was definetly thicker than a gharial
Not removing the possibility it was a big fan of eating fish

[blazing flax]

prob pretty big, strong fish and whatever else it could catch! iirc there isn't much evidence of its diet outside of morphology but yeah it's not really fair to conflate it with deino, regardless of similar size they were doing different things - whichever one was larger doesn't change that skull difference

[bright veldt]

We do have a study on sarcosuchus’s diet actually. It was basically what you’d expect from a giant crocodile-esc animal. A generalist that targeted both terrestrial and aquatic prey. The Gharial is also firmly NOT a good analogue for Sarcosuchus. It might look kinda thin at certainly angles but it most certainly is not, especially compared to the rest of its thin-jawed fish-eating relatives.

[storm heron]

Also keep in mind, even Deinosuchus will eat fish.

[bright veldt]

The thing with crocodiles in terms of diet is that aside from when they’re very young, they don’t prey switch. They just add more to their menu. Crocodiles eat bugs and frogs as hatchlings, as juveniles they switch to fish and similar aquatic prey, and then when they get large enough they add terrestrial prey.

So adults will never turn down fish either

[storm heron]

State they don't switch, then state that they switch from bugs/frogs to fish

[bright veldt]

Note the “aside from when they’re very young”

[storm heron]

You know, Im curious, how this can be applied to predatory theropods as they grow.

[bright veldt]

We know theropods didn’t really do that. There was a more clear division in the ages generally, at least in the macropredatory clades like tyrannosaurs and raptors.

[storm heron]

Was there really a more clear division in life? If I can explain it better, for example, what is stopping an adult Tyrannosaurus from hunting an Ornithomimid/baby Edmontosaurus (assuming juveniles primarily hunted these)?

[stiff osprey]

Well in the case of the ornithomimid, what is stopping it is several dozen kilometers per hour

[warped peak]

Barely an inconvenience

[bright veldt]

We have evidence for juvenile tyrannosaurs taking prey like Ornithomimids and oviraptorosaurs, smaller and flightier prey species. Sure an adult wouldn’t hesitate taking one if given the chance but the odds are unlikely. They’re going after the larger and slower prey like hadrosaurs and ceratopsians.

[storm heron]

True, smaller and speedier animals would be hard for an adult Tyrannosaurus to hunt (and not worth the energy). Though, I would still imagine there would be some overlap between diets (Wasn't there a Tarbosaurus study that indicated this or am I misremembering).

[bright veldt]

Nah it was a similar deal. Juveniles were after Ornithomimids. Adults hunted hadrosaurs and sauropods.

[storm heron]

In which case, what is stopping juveniles from hunting lets say juvenile hadrosaurs and sauropods, prey items that would be accessible to adults as well.

[tough parcel]

Not if the T.rex had prep time

[bright veldt]

I mean it’s not a hard rule, Ofcourse it’s possible. But it could just be a matter of competition, anti-predatory measures from the adult large herbivores, and maybe even them simply not having the muscle. Keep in mind tyrannosaurus got its bulk pretty late. A Jane-sized tyrannosaurus was like 1/8 the weight of an adult.

[stiff osprey]

it's possible juvenile tyrannosaurs would be partially excluded from hunting juvenile ceratopsids/hadrosaurs because those were protected by the adults. But yeah they would definitely eat those, as would the adult tyrannosaurs

[bright veldt]

What I’m talking about is a trend not a rule yeah

[tall prawn]

Nothing edmontosaurus is mobile carnivore food for Rex

[storm heron]

Oh yea for sure, a trend. I was just wondering whether this dietary segregation was less clear cut in life than on paper (with there being some overlap with the many prey items in their environment), but yea, adults would face difficulties hunting smaller prey and vice versa for juveniles.

[fossil ingot]

Alligators eating fruits be funny

[velvet burrow]

Well, how much do those km/h matter in an ambush?

[bright veldt]

A lot considering you gotta get really close to someone several times faster than you, combined with being the size of an elephant.

[pliant cedar]

it was quite robust, and fast, it would kinda be like a giant zebra, it probs had a nasty bite, very strong legs, and could outrun a rex, and a good kick could be devastating

[zealous ravine]

https://fixupx.com/raptordanny/status/1831268242809147863?t=qpxmjbU2yy9mod9M3C3ZRA&s=19

New Spanish titanosaur

[bright veldt]

Eh keep in mind that the tyrannosaurus was bigger and actually had weapons designed to kill things. Hadrosaurs weren’t easy prey but that was more in the numbers game and evading predations. It’s obvious who’s coming out in the end when the rex catches it.

[compact leaf]

an x-rex freak edmonto has a shot of getting out if it gets caught but your average edmonto is probably toast if the rex pulls off an ambush

[tall prawn]

We’ll see

[tall prawn]

Yea no

[light osprey]

If the lion hunting said zebra was considerably larger than it most of the time then yeah, exactly like a zebra

Aw everyone else beat me to it

[pliant cedar]

i did not realise the difference was THAT much, my bro is cooked 😭

[tall prawn]

That’s their average not based of their largest specimens but still rex would win over largest specimen

[pliant cedar]

yeah probably, a good kick could still do major damage even if it doesnt 'win the fight'

[tall prawn]

They can’t kick

[jagged trellis]

it could kick lmao, a full off the ground donkey kick? probably not but they could kick like any legged animal

[pliant cedar]

why not

[fossil ingot]

Still funny how "small" the average edmonto is

[tall prawn]

Look at the Edmonto do you think it has the build to kick ofc not and there not even at the range of the Rex

[pliant cedar]

any animal with 4 legs can kick bruh, the only ones that dont have the build to kick are paralyzed from the neck down 😭, but yeah, edmonto would lose, im just saying that if things went badly for the rex it could still leave a nasty injury

[fossil ingot]

The biggest edmonto is bigger than the biggest rex (tho tbf that mf is a MASSIVE outlier)
The biggest edmonto was probably able to hold its own decently

[tall prawn]

Oh really

[fossil ingot]

Average tho....yeah guy is cooked lol
Only that Big Edmonto could be the outlier to the average case cause mf decided to be Shant size lol

[pliant cedar]

15 ton ed giving sub adult rexes the zhucheng treatment

[fossil ingot]

Like why did mf decided to be Shant size compared to the rest lol

[jagged trellis]

he got the mcdonalds forever free pass or smth

[pliant cedar]

bro got that mcstrichtian diet

[fossil ingot]

Mf is huge

[tall prawn]

X Rex is 14t

[fossil ingot]

Then again.
Rex on average been larger than its prey is kinda normal

[pliant cedar]

yall ever think every once in a while an ed herd gets tired of the rexes and just jumps one trying to hunt

[fossil ingot]

Around that yeah

[pliant cedar]

i feel like eds would get hunted more at night, while trike and anky were hunted more during the day, since they were both not fast enough to easily escape

[jagged trellis]

probably, anything can happen, remember a dragonfly that'd follow me and my family around for its entire life as a adult, better question is how often

[pliant cedar]

tarbo after angering a herd of sauros

[fossil ingot]

Its possible

[jagged trellis]

me when in a social setting irl

[pliant cedar]

but at the same time trike and anky could both oneshot even a large rex so hunting at night would make sense for them too. i am also curious as to what made anky so rare in hell creek. have any papers been published on its histology?

[hallow spear]

thats not true & way too ava focused

[vapid holly]

What's not true?

[fossil ingot]

Anky and Trike one shotting a adult Rex

[sullen cairn]

the infamous <100kg zebra...

[worthy dust]

Like which one

[bright veldt]

It could kick behind itself like you can kick behind yourself basically

[sudden wind]

It'd be sorta like an elephant kick which is irrelevant to something as huge as Tyrannosaurus.
https://youtu.be/YqX3AN_JShQ?si=9DdSHM48B-Wk67TA

Just, run.

[pliant cedar]

they could tho, if a ankys tail club connected with the skull it could probably kill a rex, same with a trike landing its horns near the lungs, heart, or anywhere with significant numbers of vessels

[jagged trellis]

Which is still a kick, the talk was whether it could kick or not, which all legged animals can to some degree, not if(my end anyways) if it would against a bulkier animal which....yeah its not a good idea when escape is the safer and more likely way

[tall vale]

What specimen is that? Because the biggest reliable one is still susceptible to being hunted by the larger rex specimens

[pliant cedar]

ed is cooked unless it becomes shant pilled

[tall vale]

Even then it’s probably still killable

[sudden wind]

Well idk about that given that Edmontosaurus regalis had quite of a good vision (and also hearing thanks to endocranium studies) overall, and so probably does E.annectens. Though the former species lived in polar latitudes where months of darkness were possible.

Proposing schedules is almost impossible to actually propose given the lack of correlation with only the skeleton. You'd need an eyeball to actually look at that, know how much light it could absorb etc. Though hearing could probably help as well given that several nocturnal species have good hearing but I'd like to exclude owls and bats given how specialized these are : they legit are night hackers with 1. echolocation for bats 2. silent flight and 3D hearing due to non symmetric earholes. Would be better to look at other nocturnal animals that aren't THAT specialized given the lack of probability giant dinosaurs had evolved similar things.

[warped peak]

Killable definitely

Reasonable to hunt is a different topic

[bright veldt]

The thing with anky is that the tail isn’t flexible. The most it’s going to do is break a leg, which is fatal but things like hitting the head are fantasy scenarios. The thing with trike is that we know enough about the ecology recorded in the fossil record, and through direct evidence, to know that they likely hunted trikes enough to where they didn’t have a solid chance of dying every time they tried it. The 50-50 vs is likely exaggerating. Same goes for ankylosaurs too given we have direct evidence of it happening, even if not with anky vs rex specifically.

[tall vale]

You’re not you when you’re hungry, applies for every carnivore

[sudden wind]

"I am you"

"You are me"

[warped peak]

We're not going into Bloodlusted Rex as a topic for power scaling are we

[jagged trellis]

"Powerscaling"

[light osprey]

Bloodlust Rex vs Edmusthosaurus

[tall vale]

Mmmm you can, but I don’t think a slightly hungry rex would hunt one unless it’s starving

[pliant cedar]

50/50 would never happen irl cause a predator would never hunt in a scenario it isnt likely to succeed in unless desperate, im just saying that a trike is able to kill a rex if it got in a good hit so the risk is high from adults, but yeah i didnt know that about anky

[warped peak]

Animals do tend to have good survival Instincts, and Carnivores without sense of their own place in the food chain tend to have very high mortality rates

[tall vale]

I always see people that think anky could easily kill a rex, like a image like this always makes me laugh

[fossil ingot]

This guy

[pliant cedar]

yeah, a rex would probably 50/50 with an adult trike if it were stupid and tried to fight head on, but that never happens, and if it did only to curious younger rex individuals

[hallow spear]

X rex the lovely 13t~ edmonmt

[tall vale]

Ah x-rex, the fat animal

[fossil ingot]

Quite literally the special of the fam

[pliant cedar]

the king of ducks

[fossil ingot]

Btw does sm know S. Ungultus size?
I only have this as reference for its size but no weight.

[bright veldt]

Stegosaurus outside of S. stenops are in this weird purgatory tmk

[fossil ingot]

Fair
(Why does Chat have 1 min cd)

[pliant cedar]

the only stego estimate i have heard is 6 tonnes but im pretty sure thats hogwash

[bright veldt]

The biggest stego’s 8 meters and 8 tons.

[compact leaf]

even stenops is in there, reconstructing the thing is an absolute nightmare

[outer tusk]

What about 10 tonnes

[fossil ingot]

I have this

[pliant cedar]

stegosaurus obesitus

[compact leaf]

our current stego recons need some work, it’s horribly figured and the few decent specimens that would make articulation are also horribly figured or immature (ask stego about it you can probably make him cry)

[pliant cedar]

WHAT HAPPENED TO APEX

WHERE IS THE APEX STEGO SPECIMEN, DID IT GET AUCTIONED OFF OR DID A MUSEUM GET IT

[tall vale]

I have it

[tough parcel]

Auctioned off, but from what I've heard, Apex wasn't ground-shattering compared to things like Stan or Big Al

Its size was blown out of the water to auction easier

[pliant cedar]

nvm

[tall vale]

nvm 😭

[tough parcel]

😭 LMAO

[bright veldt]

I also heard apex found a home in a museum anyway, or it will

[pliant cedar]

also from what ive gathered tyrannosaurs didnt outcompete allosauroids, they just took over when the turonian killed them all, at least in north america

[bright veldt]

That’s how it generally goes.

[pliant cedar]

also do you guys know of any possible late cretaceous european tyrants, or did they end with Eotyrannus (Cause thats the last one ive heard of)

[tough parcel]

Probably hard to find them due to the fact Europe was underwater for a majority of the Mesozoic + humanization

[compact leaf]

europe is weird because by the late cretaceous it was very fragmented and incredibly isolated, there seems to be a few larger continents making up northern europe but we don’t know anything about them really

[fossil ingot]

Carchachad after seeing the climate change killed its food source:

[pliant cedar]

siats was so cool, same formation as utahraptor, (but nowhere near temporally)

[bright veldt]

Cedar Mountain spanned the entire bloody Early Cretaceous and beyond

[outer tusk]

and possiblee acrocanthosaurus remains

[pliant cedar]

cedar was a big boy

[bright veldt]

I had a friend that did a Cedar Mountain formation roster for a hypothetical realism server and did a hypothetical spit take when I saw Utah and siats coexisting, cause formation. Keep in mind. Utahraptor lived right after the Jurassic ended. Siats lived in the Late Cretaceous when spinosaurus was chilling in Africa. Acrocanthosaurus and Apatosaurus are more appropriate together than those two are.

[outer tusk]

💀 wild stuff ( althought a lot of people forget even one formation can have many layers to it's content )

[compact leaf]

it also has two turiasaurs randomly show up because why not

[light osprey]

Cloverly would make a cool video game roster

[sudden wind]

Thing is that we don't have really any ecosystem today where the predators literally dwarves almost all of their preys (minus in the oceans but we will not count them). Tyrannosaurus indeed did live in an environment 66 million years ago with several giant herbivores, with 2 in particular capable of severely wounding it, smaller than itself. Still, we see todays various predators tackling much larger preys than themselves which also are capable of straight up killing their predator (let's take a look at gaurs and tigers, cap buffaloes and lions, bison and bears, deer and bobcats). The vast majority of hunts ends up failed due to the preys spotting their predators and so moving on or escaping them.

We cannot totally say that it'd be the same in Maastrichtian Laramidia because both Triceratops and Ankylosaurus wouldn't be able to escape a Tyrannosaurus, so the scenarios aren't nearly as comparable to the this case of ecological interaction. Prey responses to predators can anyway be quite variable and differ between species, populations and individuals ; you still could try to make a generality as preys (even the ones slower than their predators) will try to first flee so they can avoid any injuries/infections. You don't have to imagine flight as a literal run like a gazelle or any cursorial animal : it can also very well be moving away so the predator looses tracks of you. Such interactions are to be considered as spectrums and not really much so of boxes depending of several factors.

Anyway, they have such weaponry that it'd be enough in a single good blow to get rid of their predators if landed correctly in a good spot (I see so much cases of even big cats or dogs literally flying away and yet continuing to harass their preys that I doubt single shots are autowins, and that goes the same for T.rex's bite).

[outer tusk]

there was a game that was made about that but it dead ( PLEASE I BEG ONCE MORE DELETE THIS SLOWMODE )

[hallow spear]

tbf apex is quite a nice sized specimen with some potential cool pathologies

And apex will be in a museum at some point if i recall correctly it was auctioned off to someone who has a good track record me thinks

[hallow spear]

the only stegosaurus that isnt horrible is Sophie, even stenops is.. awful

[pliant cedar]

were the 2010's right all along??

[zealous ravine]

Oh not this again

[outer tusk]

https://fxtwitter.com/culturaenclm/status/1831316084906922033

[zealous ravine]

Spinosaurus was predominantly a piscivore, this has been proven time and time again, it may have supplemented its diet with other small animals but that would have been rare.

[pliant cedar]

indeed, i hope the spinosaurus saga ends man. i pray either all the specimens disintergrate so we never speak of it again, or we just find a mummy somehow (impossible) 😭

[tall prawn]

Ngl path of titans oversized them

[pliant cedar]

yes, now all the spino glazers have resurrected from their slumber, and isle's spino is also oversized, its so over 😭

[tall prawn]

Honestly path should downsize them and make them an allosaurus victim

[pliant cedar]

make them a laten victim >:)

[elfin pulsar]

Was there spino news? I don’t keep up with paleontology stuff that much

[bitter quest]

Ye just carnivore and piscivore diet news

[blazing flax]

Thanks for correcting that! I didn't know there was a dietary study.

[velvet burrow]

Ah yes a victim to the omnivore (almost herbivore leaning) 2m 35kg paravian

[outer tusk]

Besides ignoring this thing being quadrupedal, is there anything like the musculature, that I should change?

[worldly bluff]

Muscle the arms up and make the overall body and neck a bit thicker, same with the legs

[tough parcel]

I think it looks fine is you consider it to be leaning more into a cartoonish style

[outer tusk]

does the head make it look cartoonish?

am trying to just aim for stylize realism if that make sense ( probably not )

[tough parcel]

Yes, the head feels more cartoonish which, combined with the odd proportions, reduces the realism aspect

[topaz shell]

YIPPE another mini ?titanosaur?

[zealous ravine]

cough elaphrosaurs. Noasaurs are just weird and I love them for it

@storm heron this might actually be of interest to you, elaphrosaurs were known to have been born with teeth, but to have lost them and grown a beak as they age, which suggests they may have gone from carnivores to herbivores with maturity

[fluid inlet]

Oooooh

[zealous ravine]

^^^

[fluid inlet]

Yeah I can just see a hungry spinosaurus intimidating most carnivores that are not an adult carcharodontosaurus off of carcasses if they were that desperate for food and an opportunity like that arose.

[zealous ravine]

No? No new spinosaurs were described recently, and none are mentioned by the video lmao

[fossil ingot]

Spino was massive.
Arguably larger than Carcha
So nothing other than an Adult Carcha will scare spino off a body
#bullyspinoreal

[outer tusk]

It's not even larger btw

[bright veldt]

They're about the same size.

[stiff osprey]

If you use the Spinosaurus holotype unironically in versus discussions, I hope both sides of your pillow are too warm

[tough parcel]

But it's really funny to mislead people 💔

[fossil ingot]

LMAO

[tough parcel]

Fine

[fossil ingot]

Now they switch places

[plucky basin]

much better.

[fossil ingot]

Carcha seems like 1cm taller lol

[tough parcel]

There will blood on your hands

[outer tusk]

^

[outer tusk]

espeically those fanboys

[fluid inlet]

To be alive just to witness this era in a tank to be safe just witnessing peak life.

[tough parcel]

What

[zealous ravine]

Yo Scan what’s that one shark with the weird crushing teeth

[zealous ravine]

Ty

Weird mf

[warped peak]

Can we take a moment to appreciate the sheer size of it

[hallow spear]

That’s me why are you fat shaming :(

[warped peak]

Boi you're the third largest shark of all time I'm not shaming you, I'm praising you

[fluid inlet]

How about this model for Deinonychus it looks amazing

[bright veldt]

Instinction is cringe and a scam

[fluid inlet]

How is it a scam?

[wraith kindle]

Turtle specialist I guess?

[wraith kindle]

Are it's legs clipping into it's wing feathers?

[turbid forum]

This is quite unaccurate

[wind prairie]

how so

[daring grotto]

that deinon’s skull is strange… almost looks velociraptorine? the only thing i can think is if they followed then smushed Gunnar’s deinon (who apparently follows and undescribed skull)?

[zealous ravine]

Fancy seeing you here!

[steady rock]

are you a dilophosaurus

[vapid holly]

Well they're both dromaeosaurs. They will have similar characteristics.

[zealous ravine]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-meme-spongebob-spongebob-squarepants-squidward-how-original-gif-20004154

[daring grotto]

yes..? but deinonychus has known skulls, and we know it’s not a velociraptorine

[worthy dust]

Hasn't it been in development for like 4 years now, with little to show😭
This gotta be a curse on all dinosaurs games

[fluid inlet]

it sucks because the models are amazing

[zealous ravine]

They did some really sketchy stuff, scan can explain better

[crude latch]

There smilodon

[storm heron]

Ah yes, I am aware of this and it is very interesting.

[blazing flax]

would you mind DMing me about this as well? Would just rather be in the know

[frigid delta]

oh this guy?
idk he seems to keep his teeth even as an adult||/j||

[daring grotto]

A+ source

[frigid delta]

ukhm akhtsually it's c+ ☝️ 🤓 (the name of the game)

[daring grotto]

😨

[honest cobalt]

Is Tylosaurus bigger than Mosasaurus?

[daring grotto]

i believe T. proriger is bigger than M. hoffmani (the classic ones), dunno bout the rest

[bright veldt]

It depends on what you go with. With the biggest decent specimens of both, mosa is larger. But there is a tylo quadrate (skull fragment) that suggests they could get bigger than mosa.

[honest cobalt]

Ooo ok, I was wondering as I heard tylo was pretty heavy. Since they are adding it to the game, I wanted to see the size. Anyone have a recent size comparison?

[honest cobalt]

Interesting!ty for the reply scanova

[daring grotto]

ye this too; tho iirc the ‘average’ tylo is bigger? ik the penza jaw is bigger than bunker. been awhile since i dove into mosasaurs tbh

[honest cobalt]

Such powerful creatures! Always loved marine reptiles!

[daring grotto]

absolutely, they’re really neat :]

[pliant cedar]

can anyone give me a good paper that argues for deccan trap volcanism not causing the kpg extinction, need it for a blog

i wonder if hatzeg was a multi insular animal, that ruled over a lot of europe

[vapid holly]

Proof? It releases soon and is already on steam.

[outer tusk]

it's a scam

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/487436614352764933/1281121909852999732/image.png?ex=66da9141&is=66d93fc1&hm=886570dad6681e8a33d4af39b9954f7726462cfdfc7bfb7fb21685a8071aaa5b&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1381&height=676

[vapid holly]

Once again... Proof?

Damn ngl just checked it and that shi been dead for a minute you might be right. Thank God I ain preorder that John. Looked hella good im sad

[rancid arch]

Now ik why ya arent postin- talking about paleo stuff ):<

[vapid holly]

Scratch that. As I was checking they did in fact drop more stuff 2 weeks ago. To much praise and not seeing anything about scams

[bright veldt]

Ysee my status? Something big is coming but it’s going to be a while

[rancid arch]

Too good to be true.. Not even the isle is close.

[bright veldt]

It is too good to be true because all they have is pretty models with no sign of actual gameplay.

[frigid delta]

if that's how big is Arlo then imagine the rest of the dinos in tgd
Butch and his childrens for example

[rancid arch]

Itd probably take two nasa computers to run.

[rancid arch]

Normal pot chat?

[vapid holly]

Has an entire gameplay trailer lmao released Jan of this year

[rancid arch]

Get ready for the demo in 7 years

[outer tusk]

the rexes are 45 tonnes

[bright veldt]

Mfw it’s just walking around with nothing happening

[vapid holly]

You mean in half a year? Wild

[rancid arch]

Half a century.

[frigid delta]

https://tenor.com/view/helloitskolo-kolo-streamer-gingery-nonsense-thats-big-gif-24219959

[outer tusk]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/487436614352764933/1281122155395809301/image.png?ex=66da917b&is=66d93ffb&hm=dfb617d0e1d9e45b20f8a84fbd60af4b0ed806455eacdfcbb73b657abedad884&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

yeah the gameplay isn't all that

[rancid arch]

Either it gets scrapped, or it ends up like beasts of bermuda. Often forgotten

[vapid holly]

Imagine y'all's reaction if PoT trailer was honest and you spent majority of the time questing

[rancid arch]

Community servers exist yk-

[vapid holly]

Yeah but those aren't official. Not how the game was made or intended lol. Instinction is supposed to have multiplayer features as well not just story.

[rancid arch]

Did you just call path of titans a story game?. -

[vapid holly]

When did I ever say that? I was talking about instinction. As in the gameplay reveal was story not multiplayer. Multiplayer is going to be different than a story based narrative where you explore. Y'all forgetting it's an "Action Adventure" game and not call of duty or Ark?

[cloud dagger]

Paleo chat moment

[unborn bane]

Please keep all conversations in this channel on topic for discussion of past and present paleontological discoveries, scientific news, and depictions of prehistoric creatures in media in relation to palaeontology.

[vapid holly]

Oh damn mb. We jus gon have to agree to disagree and hope Ian getting scammed lmao.

[pliant cedar]

exaggerated doesnt even do arlo justice

[wraith kindle]

When the mods decide to pay attention….

[lavish frigate]

Rewatching camp Cretaceous and just realized the implications of stegosaurus shedding plates

That’d be like if we shed our arms when we grew

Literally shedding giant bones connected to their backs

[outer tusk]

it's Camp Cretaceous

[lavish frigate]

I know, but it’s still funny to think of the implications of that

[wraith kindle]

Um, deer?

And shouldn't we be finding isolated stegosaur plates?

[hallow spear]

(we do find that)

As for shedding, It probably did shed, but def not all at once & not the bone itself

[lavish frigate]

I would be genuinely repulsed if they shed their entire plate 💀

[wraith kindle]

Depending on if they have the velvet covering that deer use.

[hallow spear]

they do not (Or i suppose, i cant exactly say for certain that they did not have this..)

[wraith kindle]

I'm sure we've found juvenile individuals by now, if not Stegosaurus itself, then others in it's group

[outer tusk]

I doub it would be like how deer do it but ig

[crude latch]

i mentioned this before back in Arazoa and it still bugs me

[scenic flame]

I feel if anything it's only shedding bits of keratin as its plates grow and change shape, nothing like deer

[outer tusk]

^

[pliant cedar]

its not a similar structure to deer so i dont think it would just fall off, they probably shed. i wonder if they trimmed the sails like we do with nails to keep them nice

[wraith kindle]

What would they rub them on though? Low hanging branches?

[patent mist]

The differene with deer and stegosaurs is how thickly stegosaur plates are anchored and their use. Deer antlers are a handicap outside of breeding season so it makes sense for them to shed. They grow different to accommodate shedding they don't have a keratin sheath. I would assume actual horns are a better comparison to stego plates

[bright veldt]

Deer are an extremely unique case evolutionarily. There is no reason to suggest that anything else in nature had anything like it.

[hallow spear]

Yea but velvet isn’t permanent

[hallow spear]

doubt they would need to, it has movement and they arnt placed in rock so they have some range of motion, so shaking a bit could suffice

[pliant cedar]

idk man, deer are ungulates, and stegosaurus UNGULATUS, coincidence? i think not, i think they are direct relatives

[fluid inlet]

Spinosaurus fans we back

[bright veldt]

The most nothingburger paper I’ve seen. Spinosaurs having strong bite forces is nothing new. It’s just that they’ve always been weak compared to theropods of a similar size. Spinosaurus has a bite force similar to an American alligator. Carchar has a bite force that’s over double that but that’s still powerful af.

[outer tusk]

SURELY this one isn't biased!

[bright veldt]

This paper really just feels like insecurity about them being fish specialists, which they still were.

[outer tusk]

^ ( like obviously it's biased )

[fluid inlet]

Paper is paper paleontologist is paleontologist, we back.

[pliant cedar]

herons also have fast snapping jaws, and they arent big game hunters

[fluid inlet]

I’m going to buy this paleontologist a beer, it’s on the house.

[pliant cedar]

i mean its what the media wants to hear, and so it keeps their research funded

[outer tusk]

Yes ONE piece of wording, clearly needed

[tall prawn]

Can u pls dm me the full paper

[sudden wind]

Prey size and ecological separation in spinosaurid theropods based on heterodonty and rostrum shape https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ar.25563

The problems with this study imo :

• looks at absolute terms instead of relative because ofc a giant predator will have a strong bite
• ignore Spinosaur skull weakness at handling high rotational stresses so preys heavily fighting back
• doesn't precise that most Spinosaurs (mostly Spinosaurus) are composite of referred animals and other relatives, so if we find a full skull stuffs may change

Spinosaurs mostly stay as piscivore specialists given their morphological adaptations to such foraging strategies, but as any predators they could be opportunistic and so scavenged, ate other aquatic prey items (turtles, crocodylians etc) and terrestrial preys they could snatch/process. Behaviors are not all black or all white, it's variants of grey just like almost anything in biology.

Still, something note worthy is that Spinosaurines seem better equipped for foraging larger prey items than they Baryonychine cousins, which doesn't necessarily mean terrestrial hunting.

[outer tusk]

https://palaeo-electronica.org/content/current-in-press-articles/5307-dunkleosteus-reconstruction?fbclid=IwY2xjawFG9_BleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHV9HwAwQE7N-a-Z6KHdHpWwJ8q5TSkwofF8uqFLIWxlxR0azTyWK9e693Q_aem_xOh-wNMGgCniMREdvyGuuw

https://fixupx.com/RizkiusMaulanae/status/1831714584815923454?t=0PDloZGMqG-VxO42SjVkGg&s=19

[fluid inlet]

https://actapalrom.geo-paleontologica.org/Online_first/Yun_Spinosaurs.pdf

[daring grotto]

also a majority of that bite force is near the back of the jaw, cause the muscles are designed for quick snaps vs crushing. the bite force was strong simply cause it’s a big animal, but in the grand scheme of things this doesn’t mean anything

and if you’re snapping quick, you need to withstand the stress of the forces of doing so. the lack of resistance to rotational stress implies that it was not intended for hunting big things that could resist with lots of strength. could it use it? of course. but it sure wasn’t the primary use/target prey

i don’t think anyone was ever saying spino couldn’t do anything to terrestrial animals. it’s just not what it was built to handle

[hallow spear]

What people fail to realise is that the notch and rosette of the snout is a huge weakpoint and will make the biteforce inherently weaker

[tacit pine]

Cool ig. but imo i dont really see anything being exaggerated here

[fossil ingot]

Yeah.
I have seen papers for Carcha Bite force been 25kN-39kN
So Carcha bites HARD

[frigid delta]

guys which colour is better?
https://x.com/MrFragilis/status/1831491203931763053?t=-rqZ74JldgMTjJ3ZvyyiwA&s=19

PaleoFragilis43 (open commissions) (@MrFragilis) on X

Tarbosaurus skin variants

#paleoarte #tarbosaurus

Twitter · Sep 5, 2024, 12:35 AM

[wind prairie]

so IS monolophosaurus actually considered to be a spinosaurid now?

[bright veldt]

No

[hallow spear]

Spino is gonna be biting less than Carch, thats pretty much all people need to know in terms of hard biteforce

[tall prawn]

tysm

[fossil ingot]

Yuh

[white matrix]

@compact tide real?

https://pterosaurheresies.wordpress.com/2022/01/07/paratriisodon-yes-this-mandible-is-a-good-match-for-andrewsarchus/
Andrewsarchus us a large elephant shrew?

[sharp canyon]

Absolutely not

Do not listen to ANYTHING from David Peters

[white matrix]

oh okay thank you for letting me know

[woeful falcon]

He who must not be named

[sharp canyon]

To give you an idea of what we're dealing with, Peters has been known to photoshop images of fossils and use that as evidence for theories

[white matrix]

I'll make sure to avoid that name from now on

[bright veldt]

ngl when you brought it up I thought it was ironic so I didn't say anything

[white matrix]

😦

[bright veldt]

sowwy

[white matrix]

sorry I may be unfamiliar with most of paleontology and might say some stuff that sounds dumb but I try my best to learn more and I appreciate you all for guiding towards that right path

[wind prairie]

the worst part is (idk how he does it) A lot of things from him come up as the first results for some google searches
avoid anything from "the pterosaur heresies" or "reptile evolution"

[daring grotto]

gotta love his stuff being some of the first to appear when looking for any pterosaur skeletal that isn’t pteranodon or quetz

[halcyon cobalt]

andshrewsarchus would fit well alongside the rhino sized hyrax

[daring grotto]

andshrewsarchus 😭

[white matrix]

this commission gives pigeon vibes

[clever sable]

David Peters is completely mental

[pliant cedar]

is this rael chat

[scenic flame]

Just a heads up btw, pterosaurheresies.com and reptilevoution.com are owned by peters aswell

[snow python]

What are Siats and Chilantaisaurus? Neovenatorids?

[calm agate]

Siats is a Neovenatorid, Chilant iirc is currently in limbo

[bright veldt]

Are neovenatorids even a proper clade? I’ve never seen anything on it that wasn’t in limbo with the other guys.

[calm agate]

So long as Siats and Neovenator clade together, which they do consistently, then yeah the group remains. Same for the fate of Allosauridae being a thing if say Sauro isn't its own genus for example then Allosauridae disolves

[daring grotto]

idek anymore, it usually redirects to just general carnosauria

i’ve also seen neovenator shoved into carcharodontosauridae

[lavish frigate]

That man is responsible for these. Don’t trust a word he says 💀

[sleek dragon]

That is truly a piece of art

[lavish frigate]

My favorites just after chonk salto and abelisaur looking Alberto

Truly paleo art legends

[pliant cedar]

what happened to epanteriass, is it just a big allo or is it a nomen dubium

[daring grotto]

nomen dubium

[velvet burrow]

And what about
Gualicho

[daring grotto]

the holotype is like 3 vertebrae

[velvet burrow]

Is Gualicho a megaraptoran, a neovenatorid or it's own thing? Is it with Chilantai?

[daring grotto]

valid but it’s classification is all over. Cau et al 2024 put is as a sister taxon to deltadromeus, some have it in neovenatoridae (which is dubious on its own), and some have it only classed as just a coelurosaur

[pliant cedar]

until we invent time travel we will never know

[patent mist]

It looks a suspicious amount like a elaphrosaur

[calm agate]

Gualicho is very likely a Noasaur, whenever it and Delta are included on the same paper they clade together and Delta has much more solid and consistent positioning than Gualicho does. Safest bet is that.

[daring grotto]

rare instance of people agreeing with cau

[turbid forum]

Thoughts on dis?

[wind prairie]

cbd and cbsm? iconic to probably most people in this server

[pliant cedar]

yes, i say its most like a noasaur over anything, but we arent 100% sure, more like 90% sure

[zealous ravine]

Desmatosuchus jumpscare

[turbid forum]

AAAAAAAA

[pliant cedar]

paleontologists lied to you, this animal is kept and farmed relentlessly to make catepillar tracks, it is a horrible practice, please spread the word

[warped peak]

Are people seriously acting surprised that Spino, the 8 ton theropod, bit reasonably hard?

Like I'm not calling the bite force weak by any means, but it's pretty low compared to the other superpredator theropods like Tyranno and all the Carcharodonts

Just doesn't seem like much of a discovery, 8 ton death lizard bite hard lol

[sharp canyon]

It's like the discovery that the giant crocodile wasn't a picky eater

[warped peak]

Unrelated tangent

How vulnerable do you think non-avian Dinosaurs would actually be to paleolithic weaponry? IE do you think a Bull of the same weight as a Ceratopsian with similar weaponry would fair a better or worse chance?

Scale seems a lot less pierceable than fur, but most saurians didn't have super heavy scales either

[pliant cedar]

ceratopsian has a big shield on its face, so it would do better than a bull, ankylosaurs would also do well unless we just dropped a big rock on its head, and other than that its pretty much the same

[warped peak]

I'm more referring to the less ostensibly armored ones

[pliant cedar]

scales probably protect somewhat better, but against large weapons like big spears its not a significant difference

[daring grotto]

would probably depend on the location too. belly skin is probably thinner than the back or sides

[stiff osprey]

ceratopsians would probably be harder to kill because they specifically have much larger scales compared to the rest, but for most dinosaurs i doubt it would be different than a mammal

[tough parcel]

The Triceratops when deck-mounted railgun

[pliant cedar]

trike will parry with its horns you fool

[warped peak]

I see so it depends a bit on the tool
Say a Sangoan hand-blade vs a Lupemban spear

The sharp blade will have a bit of a struggle on the heavier scales of some herbivorous dinosaurs but that's about it compared to mammals, and the piercing blade of the spear will be roughly as effective against either, correct?

[outer tusk]

nah it's hitbox will carry!

[pliant cedar]

yeah, although airsacs could actually make it more dangerous for dinos, cause if they got hit they could become infected, and cause bloodloss

[warped peak]

Hadn't thought about that tbh. Mammals are dense muscle blobs, with very few vital spots outside of the ribcage

[tough parcel]

You have dense muscle blobs with very few vital spots, it comes free with your ribcage protecting your organs

[light oxide]

Hmm...

Speculative evolution — if mammals evolved in similar body plans as dinosaurs.

[halcyon cobalt]

soft spec at best

[stiff osprey]

ungulates:

[warped peak]

Kangaroos:

[lavish frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/kangaroo-animal-running-run-escaping-gif-16583765

[fluid inlet]

https://palaeo-electronica.org/content/current-in-press-articles/5307-dunkleosteus-reconstruction?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR2p3uafEh2OUv2FP87-xlrf9_Hu2EvfwdySw9zwM7jJ9YsfT0iI9wT8gSE_aem_2TM4sSN9C-AcPv1hqjgRDQ

[bright sluice]

Does anyone have a good depiction of the feather extent of a theri?

[fluid inlet]

What are the most reliable estimates of weight for palaeoloxodon and paraceratherium?

[outer tusk]

palaeolo and paracera like bleow >12-13t

[outer tusk]

these two in my opinion are the best option for possible feathering

[sudden wind]

I think the giant Paracera material aren't that bad so it'd be like 20 tons. Though, this one is an outlier and most adult Paraceratherium specimens are like 9 tons or so.

For Palaeoloxodon, which specie are you interested in

[topaz shell]

I’m guessing those are both not the same species?

[outer tusk]

both are theri just one is older and the other

[topaz shell]

Mk

(Also what is this timer..)

[bright sluice]

alright thank you!

[warped peak]

Theropods died with the dinosaurs no they didn't.

Predatory Kangaroo still haunts my dreams

[elfin dragon]

i always find it strange when people say all the dinosaurs died out lol

[sharp canyon]

I think I'd prefer that over people who don't think dinosaurs existed at all

[fluid inlet]

They mean non avian when they say that, I’m sure the majority of them do.

[daring grotto]

nah, majority of people (who believe in evolution) still think birds are just related to dinosaurs, not that they ARE dinosaurs

[stiff osprey]

I don't blame them, linnaean taxonomy is easier to understand than cladistics

[sharp canyon]

I really wanna see someone's brain explode by trying to understand marsupials and placental mammals

[lavish frigate]

I wanna pinch his cheeks

[halcyon cobalt]

pause

[wraith kindle]

Or just flipped it over on its back.

[steady rock]

how accurate is this sizing?

[plucky basin]

i leave this here for people to talk about

[turbid forum]

I remember how they confused this guy with abelisaurus in amazing dinoworld

[pliant cedar]

monsters resurrected did this guy dirty

[pliant cedar]

the true scariest dinosaur

[round barn]

Hey guys - Question
Is Gorgosaurus still valid? Or does it now belong somewhere else? Just asking to be updated :)

[bright veldt]

It’s still valid

[round barn]

Thanks

[sudden wind]

Gorgosaurus is still valid. It falls within Albertosaurinae and it is sister taxon to Albertosaurus.

[round barn]

Thank you

[fluid inlet]

https://x.com/expeditionlive/status/1832216555297403065?s=46 based

Lindsay Zanno (@ExpeditionLive) on X

For #FossilFriday finally got to see the skull of Deinocheirus! What a truly bizarre #theropod #dinosaur.

Twitter · Sep 7, 2024, 12:37 AM

[heady thunder]

That human is perfectly perserved

[frigid delta]

https://youtu.be/isex3lX_HJ4?si=t22cbjPVdPuCol0n
how accurate was the explanation?

[still prairie]

Here's a kinda dumb question: What was the movement potential degree in megaraptoran arms.Was it like fully supinated or held at a kinda side angle or so?

[tough parcel]

@sullen cairn

[pliant cedar]

which will happen first, the invention of time travel or figuring out what spinosaurus actually looked like and did

[tough parcel]

Considering we're pretty solid on Spinosaurus visually (Minus sail shape and other little things) and on what it did (Fisher of the riverdelta that could easily take whatever it came across given it's smaller), I'd say the Spino

[pliant cedar]

what about ecologically

[warped peak]

I like how every Spinosaur outside of Spinosaurus has remained virtually unchanged since the early 2000s outside of the Irritator jaw thing

[stiff osprey]

It was big and ate fish

[outer tusk]

Just was curious one what I could either add or change on this lineart I just did

[outer tusk]

Mainly cause 1. Most of them are fragmentary, 2. outside of the occasional recons most of time nobody really cares to into much about them further then their original descriptions

[pliant cedar]

also none of them are particularly unique as far as we know, other than irritator, and it is no where near as iconic as spino

[warped peak]

Even then, Irritator's uniqueness is pretty limited

[bright veldt]

Ichthyovenator is literally the only other spinosaur found with a tail fluke, alongside the messed up back

[warped peak]

Fair point, Ichthy is easily the second most unique Spinosaur

[compact leaf]

that breaks embargo you probably shouldn’t post it

[warped peak]

?

[bright veldt]

????? This has been well known for a decade m8. It’s on Wikipedia.

[warped peak]

Scimitar Spino or Ichthyo

[bright veldt]

Ichthy. Idk what ur talking about with the former unless you said that and it was deleted so I didn’t see it

[warped peak]

I deleted it just in case one sec

[bright veldt]

Ok yeah fair nuff then I didn’t see that in the convo

[compact leaf]

yeah it was the image from one of serenos talks

[warped peak]

One day we'll have more Spinosaur updates

Although tbf we have a pretty concrete understanding of how the family lived and what they looked like at this point

Spino itself is kinda the only wild card left and it's basically solved too

[quasi token]

https://www.deviantart.com/diocles305/art/1087892605 ok questions, 1) is this skeletal accurate and 2) if yes, why so W I D E ?
sorry if this is random lol

[warped peak]

I mean seems roughly right?

[bright veldt]

It fits the accurate reconstructions I know at least

Just checked. It’s good. Apparently that thing comes out as 15 tons.

[pliant cedar]

thats the upper estimates for mosa, crazy

[warped peak]

Must be a Friday, looking at him

[woeful falcon]

I would argue the contrary actually. Loads of spinosaurids are fragmentary and restored off of their relatives and the Spinosaurines illustrates just how wild they can get. 2014 and onward reshaped our entire look at a whole lot of them and we don't have any transitional spinosaurs either for that matter. Still a lot to learn from em

[quasi token]

ty, figured that but wanted to ask here as well 👍
edit: looking at it again it looks normal, idk why i remember it being wider than it is lol so nvm

[river plinth]

Did I miss something cause I keep hearing ppl say rex was over 16 tons or sum and now a guy says lambeosaurus was 7-8 tons

[pliant cedar]

that one paper that said that the maximum mass for an animal is usually like 50% more than the average specimens, everyone translated that as 'every dinosaur is massive now'

[bright veldt]

The 16 ton thing is from a complete hypothetical which really isn’t applicable in practical discussion. The 7-8 ton lambeo thing? No idea. But completely wrong.

[river plinth]

Gotcha

[sullen cairn]

good chance giant lambeo is just magnapaulia

[compact leaf]

yeah but that isn’t as funny

[tulip dove]

How big were A. louisae and A. ajax?

[bright veldt]

Bout 25 tons?

[true cipher]

Pelican mouth, most likely had jaws similar to a snek

[true cipher]

Tbh only difference is the head crown, it’s got a pad and a spike, while magna has a pad.
Might just be a magna with a giant monch out of its little crown

[sullen cairn]

when the cerapod is diagnosed by primarily cranial characters

[true cipher]

I just call em all duckbills

[river plinth]

Ostrich donkeys

[true cipher]

[hallow spear]

When the postcranial characters (if you squint) are basically the same so they get lumped

[sullen cairn]

a third mud butte skull length(?) of questionable application has hit the literature

[stiff osprey]

There are 2 kinds of people

Less than 572 mm skull and greater than 740 mm skull

[versed depot]

I can't imagine the irritator opening his mouth like a pelican, this image is disturbing

[woeful falcon]

You're in luck, it didn't

[lunar copper]

Irritator in fact, is not an isle hypo

[daring grotto]

that’s not even how pelicans do it

[bright veldt]

The jaws are just flexible. That's it.

[frigid delta]

it should be more like this
https://www.instagram.com/p/CsK6hcZOkGb/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[outer tusk]

ngl am gald it wasn't like this and it shouldn't

[tacit pine]

Nice

[steady rock]

https://x.com/robokaseki/status/1832350847767884031 i think this is very cool

Robokaseki 化石をロボットにして泳がせる。⭐︎AFK研究所(同)⭐︎チームロボ化石！ (@robokaseki) on X

We have made some progress in our attempt to make a robot swim based on data on Megapterygius wakayamaensis, a new mosasaur species whose whole body skeleton was recently disclosed in Japan, and are improving its swimming performance while gradually understanding the swimming.

Twitter · Sep 7, 2024, 9:31 AM

[sullen cairn]

tyrannosaur measurement consistency really be like trix either has a 124cm femur or alternatively its tibia is longer than its femur

[sullen cairn]

poorly thought out ideas

[turbid forum]

Its valid but a species is now nanuqsaurus

Also why tf is no one talking about how the first spinosaurus fossils got destroyed and then the first oxalaia fossils faced a similar fate

[daring grotto]

so did carcha, and stomatosuchus, and countless others. war destroys

[tranquil quartz]

Stomatosuchus 😔

[frigid delta]

stomach crocodile 😔

[halcyon cobalt]

I thought it was mouth crocodile

[round barn]

Thanks mate.

[white matrix]

where are the chinese ones?

[velvet burrow]

Where's Bajo de la Carpa

[wraith kindle]

Where’s Karoo Basin?

Cenozoic and Mesozoic ones are also overrepresented.

[fallow mulch]

I've been hoping those badges would be on for sale. I want them so bad!

[fallow mulch]

I heard the guys who made them has a redbubble account so you can order those, but I can't find them

[zealous ravine]

Or in the case of Oxalaia, extremely poor museum funding leading to a fire

[tall prawn]

Guys how big is sarco

[warped peak]

What?

[tall prawn]

I meant the weight but thank you

[sudden wind]

4 tons

[tall prawn]

Alr

[sharp canyon]

Hey how did large dinosaurs that lived in deserts cope with the heat

[crude latch]

large surface area helps with that allot tmk or maybe it’s the opposite

[compact leaf]

surface area to volume ratio does help a lot

[crude latch]

as mentioned in modding sails would help

[native kindle]

feathers, for stuff like cheirus and galli would also help

[waxen hawk]

Spino was more of a shoreline hunter than actualy aqautic predator right???

[bright veldt]

We don’t know. Spinosaurus’s ecology is currently stuck in a borderline childish academic slapfight between two different groups of paleontologists that are both probably wrong in some way.

[wind prairie]

most just didn't live in deserts, simple as. It's why you rarely see large desert animals today that aren't very specialized for it (camels), and no, nemegt wasn't particularly hot

[bright veldt]

The hottest environments I can think of with super large dinosaurs is like, the Morrison? Gobihadros in the Gobi too maybe?

[wind prairie]

ye
also that gave the impression camels are unspecialized, no they're built for desert life lol

[sudden wind]

Would depend on the season but yeah, average year around temperatures are 9-11°C iirc. Still, depending of the region, there were higher temperatures. Still, it would mostly be a cold desert like modern Mongolia funnily enough.

[onyx sedge]

Anyone know the height of Argentinosaurus ?

[bright veldt]

Giganotosaurus and various giant sauropods I know lived in a desert environment but it wasn’t a hot desert either. Was just super dry.

[wind prairie]

actually, aren't there fragmentary remains of some giant dinosaurs in djadochta?

[sudden wind]

Camels are such a funny case cause they are north America's in origin and mostly were living in cold climates until quite recently when.

Also yeah iirc there are some Tyrannosaurid remains in Djadochta.

[bright veldt]

Even then the wild camel does just fine in the cold like the bactrian it resembles.

[sudden wind]

Also why do I really realize now that Troodontidae is a highly taxon rich clade lol. They are so frickingly numerous in Asia and yet we keep getting more out of the ground. What a successful group of dinosaurs.

This may be my beginning on a troodontidae obsession.

[bright veldt]

Thank you.

[wind prairie]

exactly.
too bad too sad about the namesake, but it was a very successful group for a long time

[light osprey]

7.6-8.7*

Nemegt perhaps not being the best desert comparative, having more in common with humid continental climates. Though it certainly still stands that the central Asian desert was pretty mild for the most part, at least with MATs comparable to the Taklamakan down south in the Sichuan basin.

[coral dragon]

unironically the best rex design of all time

[warped peak]

IMO the most reasonable hypothesis was that it was a surface swimmer that would briefly dive to snatch prey given the opportunity

More relying on water for easier travel to better shorelines to fish

[bright veldt]

I personally think it was an ambushing slow-swimmer. Like a big snapping turtle. Would mostly just sit there in water bodies and snap at prey when it got close. Don't need to be a great swimmer to do that and sticking to the bottom helps with any supposed stability issues.

[warped peak]

Currents

[stiff osprey]

Currents mostly affect floating animals, less so if they're submerged with their feet (and body?) on the riverbed

[coral dragon]

why are people voting no to this

[wind prairie]

I mean that's fine if you like it stylistically, but it's objectively inaccurate

[coral dragon]

theropods dont produce as much heat as mammals lol so how would it overheat

[warped peak]

To be fair, with that sail, wouldn't spino lose tremendous amounts of body heat while Lurking underwater?

Seems massively ineffecient

[wind prairie]

and??? It's still massive and in a warm environment, it absolutely wouldn't need a coat that thick (plus the difference prob wasn't that extreme). We also literally know it didn't have that from scale impressions on the neck

[coral dragon]

i think it was a generalist that just ate anything that it could, but quite a lot of fish due to its aquatic adaptations

[coral dragon]

where the proof for hell creek being hot (also feathers dont function like fur or hair at all, a "coat" like that would actually protect itself from parasites and injury)

[wind prairie]

no. Feathers were first and foremost for warmth and as such large quantities of them will retain heat. Which is bad in hell creek for something so massive, as we know it was a hot, humid "florida everglade" like environment

[coral dragon]

they can be used as a coolant system for heat, and where is the proof for hell creek being this hot

[wind prairie]

not saying it was an oven, but it was definitely warm enough to where it'd get ugly with rex having that many feathers. Also what do you even mean by a "coolant system"

[coral dragon]

helping the body cool down, ostriches do it

(hell creek was 26 degrees at max too iirc)

[wind prairie]

that doesn't sound right

[wind prairie]

ok the deal with ostriches is that they're derived paravians with muscles that allow them to contract their feathers for thist type of thing, that didn't apply to rex
also, 26 degrees???

[coral dragon]

yeah hell creek was apparently around like 12-26 degrees

[wind prairie]

yeah no that's wrong
I left a question on the paleostream discord and I'll have answers shortly, but so far we have evidence it was warm by the presence of crocodilians and palm trees. I'll get some more soon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_across_Cretaceous–Paleogene_boundary

[coral dragon]

interesting

however i would like to see the response to this

[bright veldt]

We know from dietary studies that spinosaurs were fish specialists. Doesn't mean they didn't eat other stuff opportunistically but that's what they ate the vast majority of the time.

[coral dragon]

spino ecology papers are honestly the new norm now when it comes to spinosaurus

[wind prairie]

scale impressions

[coral dragon]

the biteforce paper was actually something interesting though

[coral dragon]

very rough, dime sized impressions at that (which funnily enough i've seen speculation previously go around that they're filament pores similar to that of barn owls), not to mention feathers dont get preserved in hell creek rock

[bright veldt]

Large dinosaurs and feathers is a controversial topic with not really a solid right answer right now. There's arguments for both and frankly I think it's just something that needs more time to digest. I think it's more up in the air with traditionally feathered giants like theri and deinocheirus because they have other factors aside from size that could influence their amounts of integument, and at least with rex there's skin impressions that suggest mostly scaly.

[wind prairie]

they are scale impressions. They're also in a weird place for it to have a feather coat anywhere else, and regardless of body head production something that big just would get warm fast

[coral dragon]

i disagree with the mostly scaly take but there definitely needs to be more research

[stiff osprey]

For Tyrannosaurus to be scaly in the dorsal side of its hips and neck but feathered everywhere else makes no sense. It would have to have a reduced coat. But to which degree it's reduced is debatable

[coral dragon]

i do remember there being a pretty cool feathered rex made by davide bonnadonna, the feathers are spread across the body but the layer is thin

[stiff osprey]

The most you can realistically give it would be a dense coat covering the sides of the chest, stopping at the neck and hip. I personally would give it feathers everywhere but make them so small and sparse as to be invisible from a distance

[tough parcel]

tl;dr:
New England-Florida swamp hybrid with a little bit of polar seasonal lightcycle thrown in. 
This is all to say that these sort of environment conditions dont really exist in the modern day. You may find a season like it here and there, but the rest of the year will vary.```
Unless smth changed, this should be ok for HC's climate

[coral dragon]

its not php type feathering but its just basically a thin coat

[stiff osprey]

This is kinda pushing it in regards to the known scaly areas. But elephant-hair-like feathering would be my go to for most "scaly" dinosaurs

[wind prairie]

well yeah this seems reasonable but that wasn't what you were suggesting

[daring grotto]

that art piece looks like it’s emulating the CMNH mount

[wind prairie]

recently I decided I will always portray every theropod with at least some feathers, even ceratosaurs with tiny sparse ones, not too crazy right?

[bright veldt]

Spinosaurus hasn't really changed since its tail in 2020. It's just that since then there's been two parties of scientists bickering back and forth about how it lived and getting everybody else nowhere.

[daring grotto]

i think the only kinda dramatic changes have been additional potentially assigned cervicals and caudals and the crest shape

[warped peak]

We love the paleo community

We got:

• Tyrannosaurus is a god respect it or die
• Spinosaurus: help
• New small-midsized Sauropod
• New Abelisaur
• Please stop disrespecting fossils :(
• CRAB

[storm heron]

Im curious to what extent of hinderance the sail poses to the animal (also I may or may not have turned off ping, apologies if I didn't).

[storm heron]

Is this a good depiction of where the skin impressions are roughly located on the body?

[vapid holly]

I would trust that study before I trusted a discordians opinion. Looks pretty fair to assume that's accurate as they can get. Hard to really nail down exact location for sum impressions.

[vapid holly]

They don't even know the exact shape or purpose of the sail. The poor spino is constantly morphing into something new or different. As it stands it could've been a display for mating or a display for rival spinos. It could've very much been a swimming sail for all we know.

[wind prairie]

honestly I could see it portrayed with a cape of feathers over the shoulders

[tough parcel]

Display encompasses both scenarios you posed lmao

As Scan said, it hasn’t changed majorly since the tail and then rin tagged on it got some extra vertebra, but nothing crazy

[storm heron]

Well what does "Swimming sail" mean? And its sail seems to be the opposite of what you would want in a streamline swimmer: tall and laterally wide, immovable, (though, it could not be too much of a problem to a sluggish and slow but capable swimmer).

[sullen cairn]

i miss that one guy who thought 99% of collected spinosaurus material ever was molded from clay

[storm heron]

If it is a good depiction, then I can easily imagine a fairly large coverage of feathers on its body even when considering the areas that could be largely scale/non-feathered.

[stiff osprey]

I believe the hip impression is more dorsal but I could be wrong. Either way, it restricts the feathers to the chest, sides of the ribcage, and along the top of the spine

[wind prairie]

would this be out of the question?

[vapid holly]

I am a time traveler from the Mesozoic and yes. Can confirm this was who ate my family

[stiff osprey]

Real

[wind prairie]

rip bozo

[velvet burrow]

• New study found that Tyrannosaurus intelligence was above that of modern humans and it's possible that they had advanced societies, could craft complex artifacts and assign them cultural significance
• New asian troodontid
• Another new abelisaur (this time described from like, a millimetric rib fragment)

[storm heron]

Im curious, why can't feathers also be present on the neck, most of the back, and tail? Even considering the scale impression can't feathers (albeit sparce) also be present on the hip region in varying degrees of density?

[stiff osprey]

By "along the top of the spine" I meant feathers could be present on the top of the neck, back and tail. They couldn't be present on the sides in any meaningful amount because they would have showed up in skin impressions, but if they were small and sparse (like elephant hair) they could be present elsewhere on the body

[wind prairie]

is what I drew possible?

[stiff osprey]

Totally plausible, I just think it looks silly

[wind prairie]

I mean I can't really do it justice lol it looks a lot better in my head

[covert lintel]

been 66 million years since i last talked here but i'm chiming in to say i still agree with the idea of a sparsely feathered tyrannosaurus. it may not be as aesthetically appealing as something like saurian's old model, but sometimes the more plausible option isn't the coolest one. and also hehe fuzzy tyrannosaur

[stiff osprey]

Regardless of artist skill, I think an animal having feathers only along the top looks dumb, it should at least go down to the arms. Although i guess if we take the idea of feathers being vestigial to the animal it could work

[storm heron]

Ah I see, is it not possible that the feathers were lost/did not preserve along with the skin impressions or would that depend on their size (you mentioned how small and sparse feathers can be more widespread on the body)?

[stiff osprey]

It isn't impossible that it had a dense coat and it was lost, but it's highly unlikely. The less feathers you have / the smaller they are, the easier it is for them to go unnoticed in a skin impression

[wind prairie]

wait so the idea of it molting most of its feathers as it ages is unlikely?

[storm heron]

What if, the "coat" of feathers it had varied in density? As in, in some parts of the body had more density in feathers while the rest had smaller feathers which became more sparser the further away they are from the high-density areas?

[wind prairie]

second take

[native ravine]

can someone explain how a sauroposeidon doesn't collapse due to the weight of its neck?

[sharp canyon]

Easy, it's neck is actually surprisingly light thanks to hollow bones

[bright veldt]

The density of sauropod bones varied depending on the part of the body for the purpose of weight saving and weight distribution. The neck for example was heavy pneumitized so it was very hollow. The legs were comparatively dense. This also meant that, compared to another dinosaurs, sauropods can be a nightmare to properly weigh and its why compared to a lot of other groups their size estimates get kinda whack.

[hallow spear]

I swear there was something about this being debated

[bright veldt]

It was hilariously dumb. The entire paper is founded by a non-biologist having outdated ideas on animal intelligence.

[hallow spear]

I mean Yesnt, it doesn’t collapse its neck doesn’t weigh much and the cervical ribs purpose is to keep it stable(along with muscles and tendons). pneumatic bones will also do that for you, but also the neck should be held more diagonally as there is a study that sauropods cannot hold their heads 12m from their heart

https://journals.biologists.com/jeb/article/219/8/1154/16774/Neck-length-and-mean-arterial-pressure-in-the

[compact leaf]

brachiosaurids sort of avoid avoid that by just raising the whole chest, but sauro has stumpy little legs so it can’t hold as upright of a posture (if we fully agree with the paper)

[hallow spear]

No reason not to agree with it until something new comes out I guess, the reasonings and arguments are relatively sound from what I know, there may be differing views on it but overall the concept is there

[compact leaf]

yeah that’s what I hear but it doesn’t hurt to cover your bases lol

[hallow spear]

Fair

[storm heron]

How would the sauropods with extremely long necks drink water, considering their necks cannot be held more than 12m away from their heart (or would it not be a problem at all?)?

[compact leaf]

it’s an issue of it being held 12m above the heart not away from it in general

[hallow spear]

^ should have reworded it to be above

[wind prairie]

oh fr? Is there an image of how it would look correctly

[storm heron]

Oh right,

[native ravine]

ah makes sense, hollow neck bones like birds, and pneumatic bones? that's cool, don't giraffes have those as well?

[turbid forum]

Chat is this real

[bright veldt]

No. It was a dumb conclusion made by someone who didn't actually know animal intelligence.

[turbid forum]

Lmao

Also u know the "thunder rats"? @bright veldt