paleontology

[compact leaf]

lumping is always contentious in the morrison

I’m waiting for the sauropod conflict to finally boil over

[sullen cairn]

speaking of which allosaurus' strongest soldier has a blog now with more detail than the abstract thing https://xabierotxoaimaginethepast.wordpress.com/

[severe field]

Thats pretty cool, ty

[white matrix]

How big was hadrokirus

[tacit pine]

questiion, would a large pliosaur like Kronosaurus or sachicasaurus have a close or higher bite force than deinosuchus?

[warped peak]

In allometric upscaling

What are common patterns noticed? The one I'm most aware of is that eyes tend to get relatively smaller as the size increases. As I'm going from a 2m or so Effigia to a 9m Sillosuchus, the anatomy is not exactly 1 - 1

And there is not a single existent skeletal on Sillosuchus except for one I frankensteined together from Effigia

[bright veldt]

There's no actual tests out there, but it's thought that they might have some of the strongest bite forces in general based on the morphology of their skulls.

[outer tusk]

^

[white matrix]

How big was hadrokirus how big was it?

[warped peak]

There isn't any hard info I can find outside of the skull size, but comparing it to the skull of the related Leopard Seal yields a very rough guess of about 15% larger, with a rough guess of around 800 kilos

Not a small animal by any means, but nothing next to the Elephant Seal

[white matrix]

I thought it would be huge😭

[tough parcel]

Your foul agenda will never win in the face of truth

[warped peak]

I mean, Leopard Seals are far from small. This is about how big it would be based on that allometry, which is also incredibly rough

800 Kilos is much heavier than smilodon

Aha I have stumbled across some data one sec

Weight estimat is about the same, however they had a particularly robust jaws for their size

[royal basin]

So if allo was the wolf/lion of the jurassic would that make saurophaganax the tiger/bear?? I feel life if I was that rare even in life then either it only hunted specific prey or it was very niche specific as well. Maybe it hunted allos and it would be rare to find more than 1 in an area so it'd muscle or hunt the allos themselves and just linger

[stiff osprey]

It's just specialized to hunt sauropods

[royal basin]

That's even scarier to think about but if that's the case it still could pretty much hunt anything else big at the time

[sullen cairn]

so sad they didn't name it saurosauropodphaganax

[stiff osprey]

sauropodanax

[sullen cairn]

the indominus rex of the jurassic...

[royal basin]

I mean if allos pack hunt sauropods and saurophaganax is that much bigger than even the largest allo yeah I'd reckon 2-3 would be enough for even an fully grown diplodocus

[stiff osprey]

Diplodocus is only like 12 tons, a single Saurophaganax could take one down if it was hungry enough

man i love sauropods it's absolutely insane that you can say something is only 12 tons

[light osprey]

Next you’ll tell me the Allen Fm Abelisaurs can take on Rocasaurus

[outer tusk]

isn't 12t for diplo too small?

[stiff osprey]

normal size for D.carnegii

[outer tusk]

I thought it was at least 14t and 16t being Sesimosaurus

[stiff osprey]

I would if I knew how big Rocasaurus was or what the Allen formation abelisaurs are

[sullen cairn]

*kem kem abelisaurs and spinosaurus

[outer tusk]

also is 20t a fine esimate for shastasaurus or shonisaurus?

[light osprey]

Rugops and Aegyptosaurus

[outer tusk]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1129221350838501587/1215119841539923968/Screenshot_20240307-041157_Discord.jpg?ex=65fb978a&is=65e9228a&hm=d1f957b173cd73bb0fced69eee9c23f19b81565010f6dae8946434dbea7d9e22&=&format=webp&width=320&height=676 btw what are these called?

[stiff osprey]

uncinate processes

[outer tusk]

okay thank

[outer tusk]

btw is it an artistic choice or do some theropods actually have them

[fallow citrus]

👁️

[stiff osprey]

Both

They all have them, the artistic choice is to draw them as part of the skeleton because uncinate processes are made of cartilage

[compact leaf]

the fact that there’s two sauropods living with it that more than triple its weight too

[light osprey]

Tbf, all of the Mesozoic is just wacky in scale. Nothing makes any sense

[stiff osprey]

the triassic land ecosystems are normal sized.... which is the only normal thing about them

[light osprey]

Hatzeg island is like a taste of normalcy

Anyway, what’s the consensus of Notosuchian oral tissue, if there is any

[compact leaf]

I like to picture the morrison theropods getting cocky after taking down a diplodocus, meanwhile brachi and super are in rhe background “how do we tell him?”

[compact leaf]

the 15 foot tall azhdarchid:

[light osprey]

It has the density of air

[compact leaf]

I don’t care that place is not normal

[light osprey]

The predators are so normal sized!

Imagine a world where the predator isn’t larger than most of the megafauna

[stiff osprey]

most of the modern megafauna? because Hatz is like, the 3rd or 4th largest animal in hateg

[velvet burrow]

Why are keratinous nostrils on dinosaurs a thing?

[crude latch]

Bcs I said so

[noble dune]

Keratinous nostrils?

[velvet burrow]

I've been seeing this kind of structure in the noseholes a lot

It looks like keratin, idk what's supposed to represent or why it's so consistent

[bright veldt]

It's not keratin. It's just skin.

[crude latch]

Wrong, I am a dinosaur and it’s actually there to protect our body’s when we shoot out our nose laser 🙄

[hardy ravine]

looks like more of a skin,

[honest wave]

Just a guess, but maybe the artists intended it to be like to nostrils of some modern birds?

[tough parcel]

It's not

It's just fleshy, non-scaly skin around the nostril (I know because I do it too)

[honest wave]

Ah, interesting. Is there some science that suggests this or is it just a plausible thing being popularly depicted?

I admit this is not something I had been aware of until now.

[tough parcel]

P sure Witmer(?) published a paper on it, I believe it’s the same one that removed sauropod forehead nostrils

[stiff osprey]

Pringle nostrils are a paleomeme, no reason there would be a harsh line separating the nostril from the rest of the skull

[woeful falcon]

Where I see features in the bone I shall engrave in the flesh

[tough parcel]

Real…..

[junior dawn]

pringle

[rustic ermine]

Polish croc dino

[vocal breach]

NEW CARCH DROPPED 🗣️ 🔥 💯

[sly viper]

Can confirm that's a dinosaur

[keen forum]

He big

[snow python]

And how heavy?

[wispy summit]

Atleast 2

[chilly knot]

Ppl on their way asking for mass of a skeletal that dropped less that 24h ago

https://tenor.com/view/toji-toji-fushiguro-juju-jujutsu-kaisen-jjk-gif-16955134083777130604

[halcyon cobalt]

mass?

[outer tusk]

is there a skeletal for kosmoceratops?

[keen forum]

From what the model he was about 8.2tons

[sullen cairn]

afaik just the description skeletal

[bright veldt]

It only took 40 years

[outer tusk]

alright cause I was thinking ithere was a bettero ne

[keen forum]

Now now it was 3 years it didnt hit 4 yet that would be for the model

[outer tusk]

well good luck on the model

[serene moat]

That looks like a carcharadontosaur

[serene moat]

Is there a giga or mapu one? 🔥

[halcyon cobalt]

no such things as " dinosaur" and " pterosaur"...

[outer tusk]

I was looking over Fraonys current work and I was wondering, out of all of his skeletals which ones still hold up

[sullen cairn]

hmm today i will look at wosik 2018's edmontosaurus size estimates oh 6t 1m femur

[serene moat]

Wasn't annectens 12 tons?

[light osprey]

Larger actually

Avg Edmontosaurus was like 20 tonnes

[serene moat]

What weight?

[serene moat]

uhhhh, isn't Max size shant like 22 tons, I doubt edmonto averages at 20

[light osprey]

This is what big paleo doesn’t want you to know

[native kindle]

don't say that

[heady thunder]

Average edmonto was 20 tons, the biggest 1000

[ancient crystal]

Rex cowered in fear of lone baby edmontos don't ya know

[snow python]

Which one is better/accurate?

[wintry path]

looked at the second one a d thought it was a lithle shrinkwrapped

[severe field]

Rat carch rat carch

[open compass]

Did Megalania had a crest?

[scenic flame]

first

[scenic flame]

no, it's from people shrink wrapping the head wear there are large muscle attachments

[elfin dragon]

meraxes is a giganotosaurine so its more closely related to giganotosaurus than carch

[severe field]

I meant carcharodontosaurid not specifically carcharodontosaurus

[elfin dragon]

what about acro?

is that a carch rat too lol

[severe field]

It doesn't look that rat compared to meraxes

[elfin dragon]

conc?

[serene moat]

Edmonto mops rex on a 1v5

[light oxide]

Well—

[elfin dragon]

its skull looks like a majunga skull

[light oxide]

Someone from another community went ahead and did size comparison, both with Majungasaurus proportions, and Aucasaurus proportions:

And then a comparison between DINO 2560 for both:

[elfin dragon]

it has a very robust skull similar to majunga

sauro sized abelisaur damn

[tough parcel]

Cause that's what it is (likely) closest to

We do not have a complete skull, it's fragmentary

[light oxide]

In that case, the Majungasaurus proportions may be most likely what it would follow.

[light osprey]

Both of those seem like the worst thing to try and base its proportions on

[stiff osprey]

We know what its proportions are we have the skeletal 😭

[warped peak]

Is this a wee tiny horn? Or a crest for muscle attachment

[tough parcel]

Where?

[tough parcel]

Erm...speculation......................

[last iron]

He got hit in the head with a comically large hammer

[tough parcel]

This is a muscle attachment in every animal, yes (at least dinosaurs)

[warped peak]

Interesting, I don't think I've ever seen one that was so pronounced

[somber nebula]

Was Majungasaurus upsized or is this not to scale?

Last I checked it wasn't taller than the average human

[stiff osprey]

It's supposed to be the Kenyan Giant with Majungasaurus proportions (which it didn't have)

[somber nebula]

Ah, makes sense.

Its like the supersized Dromaeosaurid Ulughbegsaurus, where its fun speculation, that there may have been a really big version of a better understood species, but chances are it didn't look like that.

[tough parcel]

The mighty theropoda indet.

[sullen cairn]

if only we like had a skeletal of the kenyan abelisaur material or something that'd be cool

[woeful falcon]

God if only

[tough parcel]

We can only dream

[sullen cairn]

speaking of the thing I finally figured out why Nelson thinks its smaller than the skeletal
you see dear reader it looks like its roughly half the size of a folding table and holtz said to be cautious about it being literally rex sized once so clearly this 9m dorsal from morocco is the obviously larger animal

[light osprey]

So true!

[tough parcel]

Random should be taking notes

[zinc solstice]

Wich random?

[woeful falcon]

Randomdinos

[sullen cairn]

HaphazardDracohors

[last iron]

What

[primal ice]

Ok I need help so is yutyrannus able to crush bone because I'm seeing it was 211kg bite is that true

[outer tusk]

I mean yes

[primal ice]

So It can't crush bone

[somber nebula]

Most things can crush bone, I'd be very surprised if it couldn't 👁️

[primal ice]

So the guy who told me that pts yuty isn't accurate is wrong

[somber nebula]

I mean, I don't think a Yutyrannus could heal deep lacerations by making a funny sound

[primal ice]

Ya I know that it's about bb

[somber nebula]

So it being able to cripple something with a bite should be acceptable if the heal call is
It is, model-wise, pretty accurate, gameplay and ability wise it'd be painfully boring if it was.

[primal ice]

Ok now I have enough evidence to prove him wrong

[somber nebula]

Makes sense for it because, excluding Alio, Drypto, and maybe Maip, large Tyrannosauroids in PoT get bb, and it is a large Tyrannosauroid

[woeful falcon]

I don't know that there are any bite force estimates for yuty. Nevertheless, I can't imagine its jaws were crushing bone like its Tyrannosaurid cousins. More importantly, isn't pt's yuty bonebreak actually themed around rupturing tendons, not breaking bone?

In any case, its a video game

[sullen cairn]

yuty has a bite force estimate but its scaled to a 60cm skull for some reason

and the dorsal profile/width is entirely reconstructed

[somber nebula]

Yeah, it is called "Tendon Rupture", which is its reasoning for the BB bite being quite weaker than the BB bite of the comparably sized Daspletosaurus. From what I understand, Yutyrannus was sort of the evolutionary apex of one of the branches of Tyrannosauroids who weren't completely bite-focused, like, it, Sinotyrannus, and again, maybe the Megaraptorans, were the main large Tyrannosauroids that didn't have a comically strong bite force.

[outer tusk]

in general the rule of thumb or basis is that most animals with enoug biteforce can crush bone

[sullen cairn]

yutyrannus is about as far removed from tyrannosauridae as you can get without being a maniraptoriform

[woeful falcon]

Yeah but, for like eating. I imagine we're talking about Yuty being able to break bone to justify a bb mechanic

[sullen cairn]

wait are yuty and das similar size in pot

[light osprey]

Probably

[somber nebula]

Here's Wikipedia's cladogram of Tyrannoraptora as shown on Yuty's Wikipedia page, I'd be surprised if it was accurate but this shows roughly how far off Yutyrannus was from Tyrannosaurus and its closer relatives

[somber nebula]

Just about. Their combat weight and health are nearly identical (on release they were identical), Dasp is a bit taller, Yuty is a bit longer.

[sullen cairn]

horror

[somber nebula]

Tbf, this is the game with 11 meter Allosaurus (🤢), 8 meter Achillobator (🤮), and whatever they did with Pycnonemosaurus (💀)

[last iron]

Don’t forget bars and eo

[elfin dragon]

thal too

[sullen cairn]

i still stand by allosaurus' strongest soldier in that 11m allosaurus isn't really that egregious

[somber nebula]

And Metri, and the roaring Kai which gives me physical pain when I see it distend its jaw like that.

[elfin dragon]

the lips hurt me

[somber nebula]

Saurophaganax sympathizer detected; opinion ignored 😎 😎 😎 😎 😎 😎 😎

[heady thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/the-gladiator-movie-fight-together-gif-9062555644194132225

[elfin dragon]

sauro the goat

[sullen cairn]

guys theres like big allosaurid material in like not oklahoma thats like sympatric and/or coeval with fragilis

take the pill

[heady thunder]

Sauro is just allo on roids

[last iron]

Maybe it’s just an obese allo

[elfin dragon]

that was considered but was won in favor of the sauro

[somber nebula]

I am big Allosaurus's biggest hater, my reasoning being if the concept of Torvosaurus was a person, I'd marry them. I will not tolerate any rivals to Torvosaurus's title of the largest theropod macropredator of the Jurassic.

I've never heard of Yangchuanosaurus or Veterpristusaurus, and they aren't real in my eyes

[sullen cairn]

there's still giant allosaurids in the morrison even if you don't explicitly call them allosaurus proper

[woeful falcon]

It isn't, but it still feels bad seeing Das looking puny next to it 😔

[sullen cairn]

why didnt path of titans add suciasaurus i would have loved to see this obscure species!!!1111!!! (why is there a 5000kg tyrannosaur on the early campanian west coast)

[somber nebula]

Epanterias and Saurophaganx? According to this wikipedia article, there's a "?" by their name, so 🤷

[woeful falcon]

Yang is based, I will not stand for this slander

[heady thunder]

I read allosaurus, the rest get deleted

[sullen cairn]

that's because their validity has been questioned not their assignment to allosauridae

[elfin dragon]

i will not stand for this sauro slander

[sullen cairn]

unless you want morrison carchs for some reason

i say that when i stan morrison abelisaurids because of a tooth

[somber nebula]

That would go hard, but, in all seriousness, the concept of Allosaurus or some related genera reaching those sizes is very interesting, I'd wonder how they'd fit into the already very competitive Morrison ecosystem.

[somber nebula]

I'm with you broh, I stan basal Spinosaurid Ostafrikasaurus because of reasons that don't even relate to its very, very limited and indeterminate material.

(It lived with a Carcharodontosaurid, must've been the ancestor of Suchomimus and Spinosaurus)

[elfin dragon]

troodon moment

[sullen cairn]

tbf its mostly just torvosaurus in terms of potential sympatric large theropods in the morrison

[light osprey]

We’ve all got our straw to grasp

[somber nebula]

😡 Its a Spinosaurid!!!! You see, Suchomimus (junior synonym of Cristatusaurus) lived with a Carcharodontosaurid (Eocarcharia), a Titanosaur (Unnamed species), a Noasaurid (Indeterminate species) and a Ceratosaurian (Kryptops), and Ostafrikasaurus lived with a Carcharodontosaurid (Veterpristusaurus), a Titanosaur (Australodocus), a Noasaurid (Elaphrosaurus), and a Ceratosaurian (Ceratosaurus)

[sullen cairn]

i think i've said several things substantially more esoteric than morrison abelisaurids

[light osprey]

You are the embodiment of esotericism

But soon I will have my own cult

[sullen cairn]

i'd post the iren dabasu thing but mods would gut me

speak of the devil

[light osprey]

Borhyaenid Patagomaia, volaticothere Indotriconodon, and Cretaceous aardvarks will gain traction soon enough

[sullen cairn]

tragically for pronto 80% of those words mean nothing to this server

[light osprey]

I’m simply too mysterious and niche

[somber nebula]

I stan Cretaceous Aardvarks

[sullen cairn]

does mean i get a giant tendaguru pholidosaur

[compact leaf]

I’m just avoiding this conversation to escape ridicule

[native kindle]

hey nerds. what does minmi actually look like, compared to kubarrasaurus? searching gave me year old messages and wanted to see if anything changed

[bright veldt]

We don't have much of an idea of what Minmi looks like.

[native kindle]

figured.

[smoky birch]

I love you guys in this chat. I mostly observe, but I just wanted to let you know. I learn so much. Carry on

[bright veldt]

❤️

[outer tusk]

could Lioplureodon reach about 7.8t?

[elfin dragon]

no it was around 1-1.7 tons

[dry kindle]

Does anyone have good ankylosaur foot refrences? by Good I meant accurate lol

[white matrix]

Imo I think a big species of livyatan at max could go to 170 to 180 or 160 tons

[flint stream]

did i heard that nano is coming. is there like paper that can proof that nano is valid. i want to read the paper about nanotyrannus validation

[white matrix]

What do y’all think?

[bright veldt]

Bro this is like the 5th time you've said this this week

[white matrix]

2nd time but ok

[bright veldt]

Nanotyrannus is still largely dead. A paper by Londrich was published recently trying to validate nano but everyone agrees it's pretty garbage. The main thing keeping the mystery alive is the tyrannosaur specimen named Bloody Mary, which is currently being looked at by the North Carolina Natural History Museum. When they publish their findings it's either going to kill nanotyrannus for good or throw a curveball at us.

[white matrix]

I’m just asking

[bright veldt]

Realistically speaking, no. The current livyatan specimen is 40 tons, and a whale getting to such sizes is alot to ask.

The largest megalodon got into the 100 ton range but they're significantly less demanding in terms of calories then a hot-blooded whale is.

[flint stream]

well its still not conclude if it was valid then

[white matrix]

If a sperm whale could so can a livyatan

[bright veldt]

The blue whale is the only whale to get to the metrics you're describing.

[outer tusk]

problem with this is even sperm whale are very far and few when it comes to estimates over 100t hell even 80t so Livyatan is even more of s sketch since it's dead

[bright veldt]

only animal even

[outer tusk]

there's like one case of a suppose sperm getting 124t but it's invalid ofc

[bright veldt]

I can buy a sperm whale getting to the 100 ton mark...maybe. Weight estimates of the largest bull sperm whales are sketchy. But it's a lot to ask to go even further then that.

The largest confirmed sperm whale is just under 21 meters, and 15-18 meter bull sperm whales range from 45-55 tons.

[sullen cairn]

but what if its a bull sperm whale in musth

[tough parcel]

[outer tusk]

bull sperm whale in musth

[bright veldt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9Q4mfv1jUA

[outer tusk]

OMG IS THAT THE FAMOUS SCANOVA THE CARNOTAURUS, I love his videos he's such a cool youtubers

been watching him since like 2014

[lavish frigate]

Did you never notice he was here lol. Also I wouldn’t use @. A lot of people don’t like that without permission

[stuck chasm]

@tranquil crescent Please do not post off-topic gifs in this channel. Refer to our #rules and pinned guidelines. Thank you!

[tranquil crescent]

Only on topic?

[outer tusk]

this is meant to be sarcasm

[woeful falcon]

Nothing says sarcasm quite like tagging the guy

[little raft]

if you think that's crazy ||prehistoric planet came out in 2022||

[tough parcel]

Oh that, I know...I know

[compact leaf]

that shouldn’t be 2 years ago

[tacit pine]

Damm 2 years ago

[outer tusk]

Anything I should add or change to my Bistahieversor?

[topaz shell]

The CHILD head looks a bit cartoonish due too how open it is

[outer tusk]

well what should I change about it so it looks more natural like this?

[tough parcel]

Probably because you curve the lower jaw too early

[sullen cairn]

nanotyrannus farmingtonensis.....

[tough parcel]

I'm going to remove Nanotyrannus from the timeline

[sullen cairn]

killer of bisticeratops...

[tough parcel]

@outer tusk Also idk who advised the young Bistah, but they clearly didn't look at young tyrannosaurs considering the jugal area was significantly less pronounced than adults

[outer tusk]

other than the placement of the mouth it's good?

[tough parcel]

Oh, I can redline everything for you

[outer tusk]

Just do that

[hybrid spindle]

One of my friends keeps trying to tell me eo was way bigger than rex and normal triceratops and all of the info online is outdated and false is this true because i keep hearing yes and no?

[outer tusk]

eotrike isn;t bigger

[hybrid spindle]

Where’s the proof because he says no one has proof

[outer tusk]

all the proof

[bright veldt]

This is really the only up-to-date reference of eotriceratops. The only other source of eotrike's size was....eotrike's description back in 2007. It's barely been looked at since scientifically.

The giant size comes from comparing the skull of eotrike to trike, which isn't that reliable when different ceratopsids have different head sizes.

[tough parcel]

Also sorry @outer tusk I'm taking so long, other things are popping up 😭

[woeful falcon]

Omfg falcon...

[bright veldt]

Vertebrae size on the other hand is more consistent, and by doing so you get a 7 meter animal. This is big. Still giant for a ceratopsid. But it's nothing special compared to others, with torosaurus and triceratops in particular being bigger.

[sullen cairn]

The Princeton field guide to dinosaurs 3rd edition said eotriceratops in 11000kg and gsp would never lie to me about something’s size

[outer tusk]

okay

just like yangchuanosaurus!!!!!

[tough parcel]

I'M CRYING

[outer tusk]

good!!!!

[tough parcel]

[outer tusk]

but thanks for trying ig

[tough parcel]

Sbobing

[outer tusk]

also I prognathodon remains me a lot of a alligator for some reason and idk why

[light osprey]

Triceratops xerinsularis was quite the heft

[astral oxide]

I was always impressed by the sheer size of Agathaumas xerinsularis

(I'm sorry, I couldn't resist)

[rocky hollow]

this ^ lol

[velvet burrow]

What's the current situation of unenlagiinae?

[stiff osprey]

got promoted to unenlagiidae, non-dromaeosaurid deinonychosaurians

[warped peak]

Interesting

[velvet burrow]

Nice

[mental knoll]

Palaeoniscoid jumpscare

[stiff osprey]

Scale tree lookin ass

[velvet burrow]

Has anyone ever measured sauropod speed?

[sullen cairn]

average size of adults in rmdq is 5500kg
scales largest femur with siw gdi
4500kg
man

i can do the funniest crap ever with this

[orchid mulch]

MEUN

[stiff osprey]

Larramendi's 2020 book has, most of them move between 18-25 km/h

[tulip gyro]

what was the mass para walkeri was downsized to again ?

[outer tusk]

it never was downsized lmao

[tulip gyro]

im pretty sure it was downsized to 4.8 tons ?

or did that estimate always exist and is more reliable now ?

[outer tusk]

it was always 4t

[sullen cairn]

its like 4.25t with fadeno's which is already a good bit larger than hartman

[tulip gyro]

i see ppl saying it is like 12 tons plus because of that maxilla scaling

[tulip gyro]

what is the source for that ?

[outer tusk]

google search

[sullen cairn]

walkeri has never been even close to 12t

[outer tusk]

funny because that isn't even P. walkeri

[tulip gyro]

and what is it with the specimen CMN 52845 ? since its like 7 tons, or is that unreliable

[outer tusk]

yes

[sullen cairn]

that's a brachylophosaurin now

[tulip gyro]

oh okay

[outer tusk]

The only good option other than just being invalid

[tulip gyro]

thank you

what was the largest para species ( with mass pls )

[sullen cairn]

Speaking of large hadrosaurs edmontosaurus is an awful animal

[nocturne merlin]

wow that's a love of adolescents

[sullen cairn]

They’re all adults and/or fall into wosik 2018’s adult size class 5

[lavish frigate]

Reminds me of that affect I see in analog horror where the screen will just stretch

[nocturne merlin]

dayum

[compact leaf]

why is edmontosaurus

[heady thunder]

Rex fodder

[west coral]

why

[eternal adder]

original Spinosaurus skeleton—and all of Stromer's other dinosaur fossils from Egypt—were destroyed during the Second World War, more specifically in a British Royal Air Force bombing of Munich on April 24, 1944

That was the most evidence we had of Spino and that was a mere 3% of its complete body.

@blazing basalt

[nocturne cairn]

so you're just ignoring everything found from 2014 onward?

[eternal adder]

A tail?

[fallow citrus]

leg

[blazing basalt]

And several vertebrae, parts of the skull, most of the hips and legs, etc

[alpine island]

Spino’s more complete than a lot of people make it out to be, problem is we’re still missing some more diagnostic parts

[sullen cairn]

the only thing the holotype really has over fsac is a couple more dorsals and a dentary/angular

yeah spino's anatomy is like reasonably well known

[alpine island]

Iirc we’re missing like the arms otherwise we have elements of everything else to varying degrees

[noble dune]

[sullen cairn]

alternatively the holotype is indeed the most complete specimen because spinosaurus should be restricted only to the holotype

[zinc solstice]

Hadrosaurs are cool Iguanodontids

[eternal adder]

Spino is not known very well. Scientists argue over what he looked like till this day. It’s a huge debate on what he looked like. The most thing we know about Spino is the way he hunted at that still isn’t very factual. The evidence of 2014 shows he was more aquatic. Everything that was found which was tail fragments and ankle fragments was not enough to make factual statements.

[sullen cairn]

we literally have the entire legs and hips

[wary heath]

Which sail shape did spinosaurus more likely have? A semi oval shape or an M shaped sail?

[eternal adder]

I think the m shaped is the most accurate but not factual.

[jagged trellis]

so it could go either way with this logic alongside spinos legs ingame being above the average height to my knowledge, it was about legs yeah?

[zinc solstice]

Obviously Spinosaurus sail was an air balloon with airplane jets that shot out barbed quills when it wants to

[woeful falcon]

True! We should reconstruct spinosaurus with this in mind restoring it based on relatives

Oops it looks the same

[sullen cairn]

this is substantially more than ankle fragments

[eternal adder]

Those are all model from through out the years a they added more to it by finishing of destroyed bones.

[sullen cairn]

no?

[outer tusk]

What

[noble dune]

Guh??

[light osprey]

Wow this taxon sucks, Spinosaurus wishes it were as complete as Fylax thyrakolasus, the charismatic hadrosaur

[sullen cairn]

malefica fodder

[eternal adder]

Those aren’t the actual bones we have. So basically they used clay to go off more of the bones and try to complete it. It’s not everything we found.

[outer tusk]

It's simply a modle showcasing all the fossils from spinosaurus

[junior dawn]

what

[sullen cairn]

shows skeletal with preserved elements
"those are not preserved elements"

[outer tusk]

What ☠️ they're literally fossils but in computer generated form

[eternal adder]

What I’m saying is. Imagine finding a finger. So you use clay to make the hand.

[outer tusk]

what does this have to do with clay

[junior dawn]

all of the colored elements are actual fossils found

[zinc solstice]

Fun fact: we don't know what Spinosaurus arms really looked like as we don't have the bones for them

[noble dune]

Wait wrong thing oopsies

[woeful falcon]

When you find more bones, it paints a more complete picture of an animal who woulda thought

[sullen cairn]

some may sue is one of the most complete tyrannosaurus specimens of all time
they fail to realize this is clearly a computer graphic, not bones

[light osprey]

Do we really know what Tyrannosaurus looks like….

[sullen cairn]

checkmate leftists

[eternal adder]

I don’t think you understand.

[outer tusk]

Me who is actually left handed:

[native kindle]

the left doesn't want you to know paleontology

[eternal adder]

One sec I’ll get a pic of the actual bones.

[woeful falcon]

Zaddy I don't think you understand. We have a much better picture of spino these days compared to way back when. More material was found of it.

[sullen cairn]

i survived because the bait used to be believable burned brighter than the all in his mind around me

[noble dune]

We do, I have one who lives in my backyard, but he's camera shy so I can't take a photo of him sadly

[wary heath]

Tyrannosaurus is the most well known and well studied extinct prehistoric animal ever.

[light osprey]

Really? Huh that’s pretty neat

[stiff osprey]

No one uses clay to reconstruct skeletons anyway, it's all plaster, resin and fiberglass

[noble dune]

Yeah, I feed him bi-weekly and his favorite food is mammoth meatballs

[woeful falcon]

Wrong.

[junior dawn]

get out of here random.... you made up spinos proportions with your skeletal...

[native kindle]

he just be knowing and then

[outer tusk]

GASP why would he do that!!!

[native kindle]

i'll use clay to reconstruct your skeleton just to spite you

[outer tusk]

Someone made this Lythronax bust for me, and I was wondering does if still hold up

[native kindle]

woagh

[light osprey]

Skin impressions….

[eternal adder]

So sadly I couldn’t find the photo that these men took but I did find there work.

[sullen cairn]

obscure little gem called ibrahim et al 2014

[eternal adder]

By studying the dino duplicate, the team confirmed that Spinosaurus grew to approximately 50 feet in length, nearly 10 feet longer than the largest T.Rex specimen. The scientists also noticed that Spinosaurus had odd features not seen in other dinosaurs, such as feet that may have been webbed and a crocodile-like snout. Sereno, Ibrahim, and the other researchers realized that these traits would help the predator survive in water and came to the surprising conclusion that Spinosaurus was semi-aquatic.

Some researchers were not convinced that the Spinosaurus would have been a very good swimmer, though, due to the awkward shape of its body. There weren’t enough fossils to know for sure.

[sullen cairn]

damn you're right
we have barely any spinosaurus fossils

[eternal adder]

According to the scientist yes. Their isn’t enough fossils.

[woeful falcon]

Do we have a name for this, the scientist

[light osprey]

Me

[noble dune]

No, me actually

[junior dawn]

John Science

[eternal adder]

In 1912, a partial Spinosaurus skeleton was first identified by a German paleontologist during his expeditions to the Sahara in Egypt. Those fossils were later put on display at a museum in Munich, Germany. During World War II in the 1940s, bombing demolished the museum and its many treasures, including the skeleton. The only known Spinosaurus bones were lost.

Fast-forward to 2008, when new Spinosaurus fossils were found in the Moroccan Sahara along desert cliffs known as the Kem Kem beds. It turned out that these bones matched a partial Spinosaurus skeleton that had recently turned up at the Natural History Museum in Milan, Italy. All of these bones belonged to the same dinosaur.

In 2013, Paul Sereno, head of the University of Chicago’s Fossil Lab, and Nizar Ibrahim, a 2014 National Geographic Emerging Explorer, worked with an international team of researchers to analyze these fossils and create a computer model of the dinosaur’s entire skeleton. Then the scientists used a 3-D printer to produce a replica of each bone, and these artificial remains were assembled into the life-size model.

[sullen cairn]

haha thats pretty spinofaarus of you amight
LOL

[light osprey]

So true!

[noble dune]

Ahaha you silly montanaspinus

[sullen cairn]

this better not be going where i think its going

[noble dune]

Better than what happened to poor irritator

[eternal adder]

So there you go. Spino has to much work left to be done. We don’t have nearly enough bones to factually say what it was like. We can only assume. Like I said scientist till this day still ague over this animal.

[sullen cairn]

before we make any rash decisions do you understand what a replica is

[warped peak]

Unfortunately, the life sized model came to life and killed everyone in sight. There were no survivors.

[junior dawn]

so this is fake... can we ban table...

[sullen cairn]

"scientists were able to use the wealth of preserved elements to reconstruct a complete skeletal mount of the animal"
"as you can see scientists have no idea what this animal is"

[warped peak]

Time for more "I don't want to rely on David Peters" questions

• Was Arizonasaurus bipedal or quadrupedal? The only paper on it says quadrupedal, but also compares it's pelvis to Postosuchus

[outer tusk]

Bipedal

[light osprey]

Quadrupedal

[warped peak]

Tripedal

[light osprey]

Monopedal?

[eternal adder]

Anyways. I’m happy to inform you guys more on Spino. I do have things I have to do though. So good day. And hf. ♥️

[sullen cairn]

pes

[delicate pelican]

it had wheels

[warped peak]

Gastropedal

[sullen cairn]

wheelpedal

[junior dawn]

rostropedal

[woeful falcon]

Well that sure was a waste of time and idk who we're talking about still other than "the scientists"

Last time something like this occurred was with elvis torvo

[woeful falcon]

Clay, all of it

[chilly knot]

this cannot be a real place here

[warped peak]

The real spinosaurus is only known by David Peters

[sullen cairn]

nice try! that's actually baryo nx
better luck next time!

[light osprey]

Glad he’s on the right track

[nocturne merlin]

i swear thats like arizonasaurus or smth

[warped peak]

I'm more just frustrated that nobody else has any solid cataloged info on Pseudosuchians

Also yes that is Arizona

He's about the only one defending bipedal Arizona anywhere I can find with actual paleo people

[warped peak]

I mean after digging through it all, his stuff on Pseudosuchians, while poorly organized, doesn't seem WRONG, it's still Peters so it has to be taken with a grain of salt

[velvet burrow]

If Peters says it it's false

If David Peters says Tyrannosaurus was a predator, then it was a scavenger

If David Peters says fire breathing Parasaurolophus isn't real, then it is

[woeful falcon]

Facts

[warped peak]

"Distinct from Silesaurus, the skull of Shuvosaurus was overall smaller and had no teeth. The rostrum was straighter. The cranium was lower than the orbit"

So what you're saying is Sillosuchus has a large head with big teeth

[sullen cairn]

i like how screwy the top 5 largest annectans vs average rex is compared everything else next to average rex

[compact leaf]

I hate you for making me look at this

now add ankylosaurus

[sullen cairn]

sadly i don't think there's 30+ ankylosaurus specimens much less with measurements

[compact leaf]

just add one because funy

[light osprey]

Laramidia is so weird

[heady thunder]

Who killed the resolution?

[sullen cairn]

me

[warped peak]

Dumb question, but would a Shuvosaurid beak have been keratinized?

[light osprey]

Seeing as its all premaxilla up there I’d assume do

[hybrid saddle]

This is definitely a cetacean methinks

[warped peak]

Inquiring into a thing again

With allometric size increase, what are consistent traits noticed? IE what are common attributes to not scale linearly with the size of an animal? (I know Eyes are an incredibly common one)

[crude latch]

But yes Verry sad

[tranquil crescent]

The asteroid

[warped peak]

Looking for critique on general accuracy on my Sillosuchus

[plain stirrup]

Hell Creek Roster

Apex Tier
• Tyrannosaurus
• Ankylosaurus
• Edmontosaurus
• Torosaurus
• Triceratops
Sub Apex Tier
• Quetzalcoatlus
Mid Tier
• Thoracosaurus
• Denversaurus
Low Tier
• Acheroraptor
• Dakotaraptor
• Paronychodon
• Pectinodon
• Trierarchuncus
• Anzu
• Eoneophron
• Leptoceratops
• Ornithomimus
• Pachycephalosaurus
• Platytholus
• Sphaerotholus
• Struthiomimus
• Thescelosaurus

so is this every dinosaur in hell creek?
and does where everything is placed make sense

[halcyon cobalt]

where’s nanotyrannus

imo quetz should be a mid tier also

[plain stirrup]

doesnt exist

and quetz is i think taller than rex, and capable of dealing sub apex damage

[astral oxide]

tbf nobody said you can't mod dubious genera. There's already one in the basegame in the form of Lativenatrix, which is now a suspected Stenonychosaurus synonym.

And besides, Nanotyrannus is a pretty awesome name for a smaller tyrannosaur, even if it's generally agreed upon to be invalid nowadays.

[plain stirrup]

thats true, but both young rex and dakota would already fill its niche, of course you could find loopholes to make it different and unique but idk it just doesnt really interest me

[halcyon cobalt]

you can’t really be a “ young rex” main though unless you somehow lock your growth

and Dakota seems more like a same-size brawler than nano

[sullen cairn]

alright found some actual measurements and lythronax's frontal seems to already be slightly wider than the dynamoterror holotype, and its a good bit longer although dynamoterror's frontal's entire length isn't preserved

and the teratophoneus type has a slightly larger frontal than lythronax despite being overall smaller

[sullen cairn]

i would also like to concur with the earlier statement about dynamoterror being an awful animal because this thing is terrible and i hate it

[nocturne merlin]

arms could be a bit thicker, is the tail meant to look like a paddle or is it just cut off?

[warped peak]

Tail is lightly stylized, the arms are actually that tiny

[polar scroll]

dracorex or stygi? weren´t they also in hell creeck? or in different areas?

[sudden wind]

I really do not see why and how people come with Quetzalcoatlus sp. being a subapex.

[velvet burrow]

They're young pachys

[sudden wind]

Like, duh.

Also you are forgetting all HC birds!

[velvet burrow]

Are those confirmed to be quetz?

[sudden wind]

Not even!

[plain stirrup]

i was more thinking quetz n. but idk about the whole debate on that

[sudden wind]

They are some random, possibly within Quetzalcoatlines. We have no fossil remains of Quetzalcoatlus itself in HC : it lived further South though so it may be an occasional visitor (if it wants to go above the mountain range locking HC with southern Laramidia).

[plain stirrup]

hmm

[sudden wind]

So they are classified as Azhdarchid indet and are much smaller than Q.northropi.

Problem is just that the remains are not diagnostic and so cannot be assigned to Quetzalcoatlus more than anything.

[plain stirrup]

that makes sense then yeah

[light osprey]

How did Dakotaraptor not end up as something of a sub-apex…. what else would the next largest terrestrial predator be

[heady thunder]

Rex the goat takes all cool niches for itself

[zinc solstice]

Is Dakotaraptor even real?

Wasn't the sickle claw that of an archeroraptor and had some anzu bones and some young tyrannosaurus bones and turtle bones?

[velvet burrow]

Young tyrannos

[light osprey]

The list didn’t include juveniles of the same species

[tough parcel]

Considering we have not studied Dakotaraptor beyond the original description, this is all speculation

The turtle was also only the furcula

[zinc solstice]

Still though I doubt Dakota even exists

[light osprey]

sickle claw of Acheroraptor
Acheroraptor is a partial dentary/maxilla

[zinc solstice]

I heard someone say that it had an archeroraptor sickle claw

[outer tusk]

I made this Amargasaurus and I was wondering what I should change about it

[outer tusk]

I mean can the neck be postion like it did in my drawing?

[west coral]

No

[outer tusk]

okay just curious as I was just redoing some designs I was doing for a game

[bright veldt]

Pectinodon and Dakotaraptor don't really exist either

[nocturne merlin]

wait i thought pectino did just not trood and dako huh

[bright veldt]

Pectinodon is a tooth taxa in a group of animals where teeth tell you nothing outside of the bare minimum and Dakotaraptor is a known sham.

[zinc solstice]

Wait pectinodon isn't real?

Guess now we are left with steinonychosaurus and the hell creek troodontid being a relative of steinonychosaurus or something like that now that pectinodon isn't real

[light osprey]

Hmm now what would be the name of that Hell Creek Troodontid…..

[native kindle]

hey, does anyone have that one guide on how well certain feathered dinosaurs or smth could fly/glide?

[bright veldt]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982220309994?via%3Dihub

The two latter categories indicate powered flight, at least to some capacity. While the former two either aren't flyers/gliders at all or are just gliders (Changyuraptor for example).

[native kindle]

so the things that pass WL only are just gliders? gotcha

[bright veldt]

Keep in mind that it's contextual as well, Changyuraptor and Xiaotingia make sense given their ecological roles and adaptations while Bambiraptor and Buitreraptor kinda don't, and just might mathematically be able to without actually doing it irl.

[native kindle]

really funny that therizinosaurus isn't on that list at all😭 someone's gotta draw theri trying to fly

[zinc solstice]

Obviously therizinosauruses claws had membranous skin to help fly to escape predators as it couldn't use its claws for defense as they were too weak and were only for display

[native kindle]

does this paper go through the numbers for everything? wanted to see which are closest to gliding, out of curiosity

[crude latch]

Therizinosaurus: The first ever flying turtle

[zinc solstice]

The real Gamera anyways phytodinosauria is real

[native kindle]

poor austroraptor 😭 but if im looking right, sinornithosaurus, mahakala and jinfengopteryx are the closest to being able to glide ?

[velvet burrow]

Eutroodon?

[velvet burrow]

Didn't see stegosaurus in the right side

[little raft]

theoretically, if you ate a dinosaur, would it taste like chicken?

[zinc solstice]

I mean Ive eaten lots of dinosaurs in real life and they tasted like chicken

[topaz shell]

How good is this Minmi (I messed up so bad on tail)

[clever sable]

Probably not

[tough parcel]

Chickens are specifically bred for taste/appeal to humans, non-avian dinosaurs were not

[tough parcel]

@sullen cairn You have Darth's fixed math?

[native kindle]

well you see. (insert random animal) tastes just like chicken so ur wrong pal ..

[tough parcel]

What da frick

[somber nebula]

I'd assume if you ate a Paleognathid or Crocodilian of some kind you could get a slight idea of what some non-avian dinosaurs tasted like.

[alpine zodiac]

alligator taste pretty good but i forgor what it tastes like so

[crude latch]

Ever try kangaroo?

It’s odd
Taste like what you’d expect one of those fishing lures to taste like

[last iron]

Do we have any conclusive evidence of certain dinosaur circadian rhythms? Like if X was nocturnal and such

[trail jewel]

Dropped another fossil hunting video on my YouTube channel. Not as many as last vid but I found a few specific fossils that really surprised me.

https://youtu.be/rlaA5QUMPOk

[copper flame]

opinions on the new spinosaurus paper?

is it right is it wrong ect

[crude latch]

WRONG BCS YES

[copper flame]

explain

[crude latch]

I was making a joke lol

Altho I personally don’t agree, spino will always swim in my heart

[lavish frigate]

I love how they just had to know for certain if Tyrannosaurus could sustain powered flight 💀

[hardy ravine]

is the neck actually like that or is it a sail like spinosaurus

[wary heath]

Which mammalian species would be the most successful in the mesozoic era?

[lavish frigate]

Humans with firearms

[crude latch]

Hmmmmmm…..I wonder :/

[woeful falcon]

The mammals that lived in it :^)

[lavish frigate]

Over humans with firearms? 🤨

[wary heath]

Mammals that could give some dinosaurs a run for their money.

[woeful falcon]

Which part of the mesozoic and where

[wary heath]

North America cretaceous, maybe bears or lions

[light osprey]

Real

The sloth bear dominates the Cretaceous forest…

[woeful falcon]

Depending on the animals they'd be encountering, I can't imagine they'd be doing the best

[crude latch]

Give blue whales wings, that easy. They take over the world

[alpine zodiac]

the norway rat

[light osprey]

Tree shrews would be killing it

[copper flame]

and it always has been
just found ou the paper got debunked not even 24 hours ago lol

[plain stirrup]

were tarbos teeth made for crushing or cutting

[bright veldt]

They’re teeth. They can do both.

[halcyon cobalt]

they were made for flying

[tranquil quartz]

Is there paper out there solidifying Sauro as its own Genus?

[crude latch]

LOL

[hardy ravine]

If we preserve A fossil of a endangered species in A clear solid, Will it be precious after a 100 years of extinction?.

Amphibians are the best. as well as theropods.

[zinc solstice]

It's hard to become a fossil it's likely out of 8 billion people alive to today 8 of us will become fossils and even less then 8 will be found by a future sapient species

So the chances of an endangered species fossilizing is rare and the chances of finding an endangered species fossil is very rare

[crude latch]

Ong next sapient species Corvids please 🙏

Watch it become a freaking cockroach 💀

[zinc solstice]

What if I become a fossil one day and a bunch of nerdy sapient corvids find me and are excited and be my friend?

[crude latch]

wtf sapient corvids thinking when they discover the fossils of the massive beast they used to be

[zinc solstice]

Sapient corvids finding the proavis a tree climbing basal paravian while we never might

[crude latch]

Oh god

It’s happened once so I mean….what if some of the corvids, like us, became furries

Plz, plz no

[zinc solstice]

Sapient corvids wearing a shrink-wrapped human reconstruction suit that has green skin

[crude latch]

😭

[native kindle]

lotsa paleo talk wowzers

[zinc solstice]

And because of our teeth they will think we were the lystrosaurus of the Cenozoic and were herbivores anyways archaeothyris isn't a reptile

[native kindle]

the small ones that lived there

[zinc solstice]

Back on topic: cotylorycnhids might be the most basal synapsid group

[crude latch]

Do we know exactly how penguins evolved?

[zinc solstice]

If asaphestera the oldest known synapsid is a cotylorycnhid and asaphestera is 6 million years older than the earliest reptile in the fossil record hylonomus

[hardy ravine]

dayum, Matters on the population. Take trilobytes for an example here one of the oldest Organisms, We found more then 20K Species of this organism just because its population was humongous.
Now, If there are 8 Billion people on earth. Why would the later sapien species find only a small number of our fossils?
Maybe just due to our burying Thing, but what about the ones that died due to natural factors, Wont be only 8 people from 8 billion.

[halcyon cobalt]

prob more like a million or sum fossils ngl

[outer tusk]

is Nanuqsaurus valid

[nocturne merlin]

yes

[outer tusk]

*damnit

[novel atlas]

https://kfor.com/news/great-state/a-shocking-find-on-the-summit-of-ghost-mound/

Utahraptor tracks

[stiff osprey]

I don't know what that is, but it's not a Utahraptor track

[velvet burrow]

Wouldn't our bury thing actually be the reason why they would find so much fossil material from us?

[misty panther]

Anyone online? I got a question

[nocturne merlin]

what

[misty panther]

Okay for example. I bought the all dino pass. If future dino packs come do I get them for free or pay

[nocturne merlin]

free and why r u askin in paleo chat lmao

[misty panther]

Dunno

[lavish frigate]

A bird was like “what if Halszkaraptor was cold tuxedo”

The end.

[somber nebula]

Penguins (and the rest of Austrodyptornithes) split off from the other major clade of seabirds (Procellariiformes) near the end of the Cretaceous (~Campanian-Maastrichtian Boundary) and basal penguins probably weren’t too different from modern penguins, they’ve really just been inhabiting the Southern Hemisphere, doing the same thing, for like ~60 million years.

Here’s a model of what one of the earliest penguins (Waimanu manneringi) may have looked like

[light osprey]

There’s really no evidence thus far that they diverged during the Cretaceous

Far more parsimonious conclusion is that they diversified during the early paleocene. There’s also just not a lot of room for flightless diving birds in the Maastrichtian, the Hesperornithids and Vegaviids seemed to have diversified quite a bit by then

[crude latch]

Uh….wow ok

[warped peak]

B r u h bot deleted an entire paragraph I wrote

TLDR given what we know about archosaurs, living and extinct and the history of keratinized tissue across them, it would be reasonable to presume that Sillosuchus would have had at least somewhat keratinized skin across the skull to help reinforce the extremely stress-prone jaw

Is this guess correct?

[zinc solstice]

Smilodon is my favorite dinosaur

[scenic flame]

I can ask around if ye like

[warped peak]

That'd be great!
I have no idea how to handle most of the scales on it period, but the face is like the most important part lol

[scenic flame]

Gabriel's art should be a good reference though

[warped peak]

The only thing I'm 100% certain I'll be doing is giving it a proto-feather quill beard/chest

[scenic flame]

if accuracy is a concern Psuedosuchians wouldn't have anything like that

[outer tusk]

^

[warped peak]

Yeah it'll just be a specific sub option like Quilled Dilo

[scenic flame]

also I got an answer

[warped peak]

Now I just need to figure out how to handle the scales lol

Pseudosuchian skin has very little history, the only halfway decent example I found was from a Teleosaurid, a huge jump from Poposauroidea

[somber nebula]

Yeah, my source for the “diverging in the late Cretaceous” was something that kind of read like a news article, it wasn’t, but it read like one, stuff like grossly simplifying key points to be presentable to a the average person, to a degree where it seems inaccurate, so I should have taken it with a grain of salt. The earliest dated “penguin” species were right after the K-P extinction, not before.

But I do find the concept of penguins surviving the extinction and outliving/outcompeting the remaining Hesperornithids kind of funny.

[light osprey]

If it’s any consolation the Vegaviids are pretty Neoavian looking

[zinc solstice]

Aren't vegaviids fowl?

[light osprey]

No consensus but that’s so far not really supported by the latest papers

[halcyon cobalt]

about how heavy would pontolis be?

[warped peak]

Weight estimates for Pontolis range between 2,000 to 4,000 kg

[halcyon cobalt]

wholy guacomole

[tame harness]

The head on the far right is now gone in the ptb.

[noble dune]

Magnicristatus

[tame harness]

Now all the builds look exactly the same.

[west coral]

Also Paucidens being the main species is a bit odd since it doesn’t exist

[tame harness]

Idk where that came from

[west coral]

Just have L. lambei, L. magnicristatus and L. clavinitialis

[noble dune]

Yeah I was really hoping paucidens would be removed and replaced with lambei (which the model itself was but not description on the character select screen)

I mean the sub bonuses can still be the same with clavinitialis being the + swim speed while lambei gets the 20% cooldown

[sullen cairn]

if malefica can exist than paucidens can be a senior synonym of lambei fight me

[stiff osprey]

''if 2+2 =4 therefore the sun is a deadly lazer''

[sullen cairn]

are both not true?

[noble dune]

I refuse to accept paucidens being a senior synonym of lambei

[sullen cairn]

if you ignore that paucidens is undiagnostic at the generic level and from judith river it makes sense

[tame harness]

All the new models look exactly the same.
Especially an issue with the third build.

Ik, I took it from Velocci's vid, but what else am I gonna do?

[junior dawn]

hope they switch the names of paucidens and lambei and then make magnicristatus look like magnicristatus

[tame harness]

It's in the ptb. It's too late already.

[sullen cairn]

if pot's okay with giving lambeosaurus species not formally assigned to lambe does that mean they can do L. laticaudas

[tame harness]

No. It isn't cause this is just a game.

[heady thunder]

They made magni look like pauci and just, deleted the actual magni, weird choice

[loud python]

It is a bit strange that the crest doesn't have at least the forwards pompadour look

[sullen cairn]

welcome to edmontosaurus you can actually say are bigger than some estimates of an average rex we have:
-"dakota is 12m" (and 10.7m and also 35t)
-making several assumptions about a graph from two decades ago
-dentary giga but objectively worse
-skull scaling but the measurements are also inconsistent
-tail in which 50% of its literature is incredibly vague about its dimensions
-toothrow measurement

[compact leaf]

is one of those x rex and I’m just too dense to see it or did the big man get downsized?

[sullen cairn]

incredible phrasing

[patent mist]

magnicristatus' hips are wider in top/ hind view than the others. iirc paucidens had the widest ribcage

[tough parcel]

You're saying this as if they're bad???

[sullen cairn]

not at all

in fact if we have 6 edmontosaurus definitively larger than every t-rex ever than the theoretical largest edmontosaurus ever would logically be 6x the size of the largest rex

[tough parcel]

So real...

[native kindle]

psst

[sullen cairn]

this?

[elfin dragon]

so you are saying edmont could be 60 tons? lol

[sullen cairn]

Not could. Would.

[elfin dragon]

you are truly a hopeless being

[native kindle]

idk what he meant, i was mainly asking which of the fellas that couldn't glide get the closest. + Zhenyuanlong because i like that animal

[tough parcel]

I thought he did more?

[sullen cairn]

Maybe I just looked at the one in pins

[tough parcel]

Wow

[hybrid spindle]

How big was eo and studies to prove it’s actual size like most recently because my friend keeps trying to tell me it’s bigger than the rex and accurate in game

[main notch]

Here’s a small hypothesis based on nothing but my knowledge (which could be lacking) of the genus Tyrannosaurus rex but here it goes

So there’s a potential tyrannosaurus could have done co parenting with members of the same sex, I base this on the fact that several species of avian dinosaurus have been found to do co parenting of the same sex ,the best example of this fact are the genus Cygnus atratus (black swan) and several Spheniscidae those being more notable examples

With them being descendants of the non avian dinosaurs, there’s a high likely hood that non avian dinosaurs could have same sex partners for co parenting, based on what we known of the modern avian dinosaurs

TLDR: scientifically there’s a chance trex can be gay.

[sullen cairn]

~7m, there's a skeletal by gat but there aren't really any formal studies on the thing's size

which isn't surprising because most dinosaurs don't have comprehensive literature estimating their size

[bright veldt]

Literally the only piece of literature seriously discussing eotrike was its description back when it was first described and that’s it. Looking back on the material with better methods, you get a smaller animal.

[sullen cairn]

or gsp but gsp has plenty of legitimately unhinged estimates

[heady thunder]

I like this GSP guy

[ionic crescent]

It's basically Toro sized, like it was like a trike with a head proportion like a Torosaurus

[lucid ibex]

Does anybody have a full skeletal of Unenlagia?

[velvet burrow]

I could only find this one

[sullen cairn]

gat also has one

[velvet burrow]

There's also this one, that austroraptor is pretty sus

I don't find the credits though

[somber nebula]

Featherless Austroraptor Sillhouette is a horrifying thing and it kind of looks like a Megaraptoran

[white matrix]

Is buitre the most complete unenlagiine?

[zinc solstice]

Was Pachycormus a filter feeder?

[main peak]

Trying to argue with Big-megalodon fanboys is pain

[warped peak]

Seeing ChatGPT used as a defense when it says the creature being attacked just didn't exist is very amusing to me

[zinc solstice]

How big is the meg?

[main peak]

I'm not an expert or even a casual academic in this regard, but from what I understand 15-18m with some estimates putting it at an unlikely maximum of 20m. Anything bigger isn't very well founded. Weight ranges quite a bit depending on who you ask but it seems estimates range around 30-60 tons.

Someone here will probably correct me.

But no 25m monsters

[ancient crystal]

I've seen 22 meters suggested as the absolute unlikely maximum, which is the higher end estimate for the largest meg tooth known

[ancient crystal]

Wasn't there someone in this channel that used to use chatGPT to try and refute actual sources

[main peak]

Wouldnt surprise, people really have no idea how ChatGPT works do they...

[ancient crystal]

Yep, here they are. Good ol' "ChatGPT et al" man

[hybrid saddle]

Never heard of ChatGPT

[ancient crystal]

I wish I hadn't tbh

If you look up some of the more well known dinosaurs on google images some of the top posts are garbage AI generated images

I've had to argue with people that AI shouldn't be used to create paleo art because it isn't actually capable of analyzing and understanding the literature used to create it

[main peak]

A lot of that goes beyond what ChatGPT was designed for anyways

[ancient crystal]

Iirc, the new proportions paper isn't too reliable but I might be wrong

[open compass]

Paleo accurate mammoth:

[ancient crystal]

Yeah, I agree with all that, its just I've seen some pretty heavy pushback on the new meg paper

[calm jolt]

Australia wildlife:

[crude latch]

Just to be clear confuciusornis could fly right?

[warped peak]

Yes

[crude latch]

Hmmmm

[ancient crystal]

Omg, is that an up to date comparison between dunk and a great white where the great white doesn't look like it had an anvil dropped on its head?

Oh, damn, I was hoping someone rectified this atrocity

[outer tusk]

hoping I can use it cause Evoincarnate is really good at fish anatomy

[velvet burrow]

Grouper dunk grouper dunk

[ancient crystal]

Dunk being shrunk is my favorite paleo development from 2023

[velvet burrow]

Shrunkleosteus

[outer tusk]

yeah now it' can get to 141t

[ocean drum]

It was like 70-110 tons on the larger end of the estimates and the more reliable highest estimate is around 103

[outer tusk]

me when it pretty much mssive for a fish

[elfin dragon]

that dunk is a bit big

[outer tusk]

yeah because Dunkleostus was big

[elfin dragon]

ehhhh

[velvet burrow]

It's the same size

[elfin dragon]

no its not

[outer tusk]

horrible reconstruction, just use Evo's

[elfin dragon]

that is outdated bud

[outer tusk]

how is it outdated if it's legit showing the same reconsturction from 2023 💀

[elfin dragon]

bc that dunk is WAY too big

[outer tusk]

what

[velvet burrow]

Which one

[elfin dragon]

all of the ones above the 2023 one

[outer tusk]

the one I showed is literally showing all of the sizes given to dunkleostus in the past until now

[velvet burrow]

The one that matters in the context is the 2023 one

[outer tusk]

yeah cause it's a literal comparison of al lthe reconsturctions of dunk 💀

[elfin dragon]

also that is the same exact reconstruction you told me not to use 💀

[velvet burrow]

LOL it is

[brisk acorn]

what I think kuitaran is trying to say is that the size of dunk is still mostly guesswork (though it was smaller than it used to be)

[outer tusk]

I mean regardless 4 meters long is still pretty long and big for a fish like dunk

[elfin dragon]

why does new dunk kinda look like a goldfish

[outer tusk]

because it had bad proportions for it's body

[brisk acorn]

I honestly think this is a better reconstruction of dunk simply because its more streamlined

[outer tusk]

overally the paper's dunk is just bad including the GWS which shows how bad it is

[velvet burrow]

What's the fossil material for dunk?

[brisk acorn]

just the skull as far as I know

[velvet burrow]

One?

[brisk acorn]

many specimens

[velvet burrow]

K

[bright veldt]

There's a few skulls

[velvet burrow]

Just found it weird that the 2007 and 2017 ones are so big compared to the others

[ancient crystal]

The great white in question:

[outer tusk]

which oen from 2007

[velvet burrow]

Second one

[outer tusk]

okay yeah idk

[ripe lance]

Dunk

[sleek roost]

Name an animal, I might use it for a mod!

[outer tusk]

shark

[ripe lance]

Meg

[sleek roost]

I FORGOT TO SPECIFY REPTILES ONLY 😭

[ripe lance]

Velociraptor

[sleek roost]

||I’m gonna cry, I meant modern day||

[ripe lance]

Anaconda

[sleek roost]

Ok thanks! 😭

[main talon]

i have a wonderful question for paleo media what if sauropods had something similar to a frog neck also known as the vocal sac but what if it croaks

Similar to this

[tacit pine]

Is 4 meter dunk avarage dunk or max sized

[outer tusk]

there is no average we just have the speicmen we have

[tacit pine]

Hm ok

[ancient crystal]

This was probably Prehistoric Planet's most goofy speculative behavior/feature in the documentary, but its also by far my favorite

[velvet burrow]

I liked how they fought

[outer tusk]

okay real talk is Vividen by any means reilable when it comes to paleo stuff

[woeful falcon]

I'm going with "no"

[warped peak]

Depends on location.

[lavish frigate]

I’m going with yes. Although definitely not in northern places. South America and Africa would be good. Still warm enough and they have herbivorous megafauna

[woeful falcon]

My post was a response to kuitaran's question

Not me answering the video's question

[outer tusk]

it's a bad video for the solo fact that this isn't possible

[lavish frigate]

Aaaah ok. Should’ve looked for context

[woeful falcon]

In your defense, I didn't have it as a reply

And the rest of the title says "Cenozoic North America"

So, actually my "no" is a response to the video too lol.

[lavish frigate]

Well I wouldn’t completely rule out that some could survive in at least the veeeeery southern parts of NA but they definitely wouldn’t thrive

[outer tusk]

they're not surviving

[lavish frigate]

I feel like everyone forgets that summer still existed and would probably not be too cold

[outer tusk]

okay but there's os many reasons why this just wouldn't work for solo fact it's megatheropod being put into here

[lavish frigate]

I don’t see why megatheropods couldn’t survive in at least the southernmost regions of NA. They are warm blooded animals so as long as they stay far enough south they probably won’t freeze to death aaand they have large populations of megafaunal herbivores

[lavish frigate]

Mind explaining your view? Curious as to your thoughts

[light osprey]

I didn’t read the title and thought the premise was way cooler than it actually was

[outer tusk]

they just wouldn't survive

[lavish frigate]

That’s….a statement…not a reason….. Ik you believe that but I wanna know why lol

[outer tusk]

they wouldn't survive because aside from the biggest of megafuana in the Cenozoic there's nothing that would fullfill a megatheropod like t. rex and over there's obvious reasons we don't have animals similar to them

[lavish frigate]

There were many many species of megafaunal herbivores for them to hunt at the time. Also the reason we don’t have animals similar to them is because we don’t currently have anything that even could sustain a population of megatheropods unless your in Africa with elephants and rhinos and hippos and such.

And even then there would be a giant impact on African megafauna

[outer tusk]

well still not possible megatheropods like t.rex to thrive in the cenozoic era

[stray wren]

I mean, I don't see why they couldn't. Under the right conditions they absolutely could survive

[lavish frigate]

This statement doesn’t prove itself 💀 you’ve said this twice and I’ve given many reasons why they could lol

[light osprey]

It’s simply too cold for the archaic reptilian dinosaurs

[outer tusk]

^

[light osprey]

Pay no mind to Cretaceous Antarctica, totally irrelevant to this discussion

[woeful falcon]

Babies aren't gonna do well

[white matrix]

Do yall think kapro mod legs too teeny?

[lavish frigate]

Assuming they stay in the same place they lived to lay eggs it would definitely be hard to incubate

[lavish frigate]

Pronto was making a “mammalian cunning” style joke

[woeful falcon]

Not even just incubate, live as scaley babies brrrr freezin

[sullen cairn]

what joke

[light osprey]

Glad table get its

[outer tusk]

what joke

[sullen cairn]

only through sheer cunning and force of will could mammals survive in the frigid South Polar

archosaurs never stood a chance

[light osprey]

All those penguins….

[sullen cairn]

there's a reason the only lizard in oceania/antarctica is the tuatara, which is convergent with mammals in endoothermy and viviparity

[lavish frigate]

Penguins only survive through their primal reptilian high rate of reproduction and die two weeks after hatching

[light osprey]

theropods are too naked to retain heat in polar climates

Well I guess it’s all over for any elephantoids who tried to live there

If only there was some insulating integument the theropod had developed to assist in heat retention….

[lavish frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/think-bird-hmmm-owl-nod-gif-17288046

[lavish frigate]

If only they were also multi ton warm blooded animals….

[light osprey]

Perhaps….

[lavish frigate]

I wish feathers were real 😔

[dry kindle]

What style of swimming did mosasaurs use?

[stiff osprey]

Subcarangiform to carangiform

[dry kindle]

Ty

[outer tusk]

hey Randomdinos may I ask you someone that I said prior

[somber nebula]

Btw, in the video he includes a bunch of theropods that aren't even Megatheropods, like Nanuqsaurus, Deinonychus, Ceratosaurus, Utahraptor, and Teratophoneus.

Also doesn't really take into account how the climate and oxygen levels would affect the actual megatheropods, and then later on claims that a population of large Carcharodontosaurids like Acrocanthosaurus and Meraxes could be sustained by large Proboscidians.

[outer tusk]

EW NANUQSAURUS 💀

[sullen cairn]

tbf megatheropod doesn't really have a consistently applied definition

[somber nebula]

Yep. Pretty sure in some of his other videos he includes Dakotaraptor. Also made a video about Ulughbegsaurus being a massive Dromaeosaurid, absolutely soyjacking at the prospect of an "Uber-raptor"

[sullen cairn]

whenever i here uberaptor i think there's some new unenlagiine from uberaba or something and then i get sad that there isn't

[somber nebula]

True. Always assumed it just meant a large theropod (4< tons) that was generally pretty dominant/successful in its environment.

[sullen cairn]

i think i've seen it be defined as low as 1000kg+
although i'm not sure if anyone would ever call deinonychus a megatheropod

[outer tusk]

I guess I didn't want to see like a jack just because I hated vividen soloely on his titles but idk whether he's reilable or not

as he as a server of his own with people who repsected and work with him ig so idk

[sullen cairn]

i liked his abelisaur bruhath video that was cool

[light osprey]

Oxygen levels…

[outer tusk]

also is 15t t. rex possible?

[light osprey]

Yes, the famed oxygen was integral to dinosaurs being large

[somber nebula]

Wouldn't it at least to a minor degree be a factor? Or is it just archaic scientific "facts" that I heard in some 90s documentary that has been stuck in my head since then.

[light osprey]

The latter

[compact leaf]

yeah oxygen levels really don’t factor in, they were pretty similar to today

[sullen cairn]

its kinda sad what happened to nanuq considering how charismatic the thing is (was?) conceptually

[outer tusk]

what

[light osprey]

The tiny tyrannosaur in the arctic was cool for a time

[sullen cairn]

yeah that

[light osprey]

I mean, technically everything but the holotype would be referred without overlap?

[sullen cairn]

the initial diagnosis also got torn apart

[light osprey]

The unseen diversity of size in Alaskan tyrannosaurs….

[sullen cairn]

something something aleutian trackmaker

[light osprey]

I’m pretty sure those tracks might not have been part of Alaska during the Cretaceous

Paleo latitude was something like 57 degrees north?

[sullen cairn]

yeah

not sure if the description mentions anything about them being not part of Alaska at the time though

[light osprey]

57 degrees latitude would indeed not be Alaska

[sullen cairn]

does anyone actually distinguish between alaska and anything in british columbia besides vancouver though

[light osprey]

Yes

[sullen cairn]

false

[light osprey]

Aw man

[sullen cairn]

actually some of wapiti extends in bc so you get that still

[west coral]

British Colombia is practically just the island, the rest of it is like “huh?”

[light osprey]

Wait you’re telling me British Columbia isn’t just the Canadian coastline?

[sullen cairn]

incredible

[light osprey]

Probably because everything else is covered in glaciers

“By golly this looks like the perfect place to build my civilisation”

[sullen cairn]

its so sad nobody will know canada ever existed 30 years from now because of glaciers

much like mighty late santonian tyrannosaurus boraelus

[light osprey]

Dryptosaurus hudsoniensis

[west coral]

tarbosaurus canadiensis

[sullen cairn]

dryptosauridae when tyrannosaurini migrates from western asia -> europe -> eastern seaboard

[light osprey]

Nanuqsaurus arcticus….

[compact leaf]

Boreatitan paulbunyani

[west coral]

Borealotyrannus trudeaui

[sullen cairn]

we need this but with dryptosaurus and its also being actively murdered

[light osprey]

Boreatitan arcticus when Austrotitan antarcticus enters

[sullen cairn]

utetitan zellaguymondewaeyae

[compact leaf]

the theoretical far northern sauropod has to have Paul Bunyan in its name, that's the rule

[light osprey]

Cuttlefish do you trust in Titanosauria’s ability to inhabit mainland Antarctica

[sullen cairn]

johnnyappleseedtitan

[west coral]

James Ross titanosaur…

[light osprey]

Me when the mainland part of Antarctica

[compact leaf]

sauropods have shown up in weirder spots so it's possible

thermoregulation studies for the climate range of sauropods are rare, and it's a weird thing to work with

[light osprey]

To give credence, Lopez de Bertodano is pretty cold

[west coral]

me when no arctic opisthocoelicaudiine

[compact leaf]

what I want to know is if there's sauropods knocking around appalachia, and if so what are they

[light osprey]

Haven’t found any, clearly they aren’t there

[compact leaf]

if they're there it's weird no matter what

[light osprey]

From Europe they hail!

[compact leaf]

it's a 50 ton ghost lineage turiasaur

[west coral]

brachiosaur and diplodocoid too

[compact leaf]

objectively the most cursed option, and with their track record entirely possible

[sullen cairn]

santonian british columbian titanosaur when it walks ten feet north (arctic sauropods confirmed)

[compact leaf]

turiasaurs are cursed, they just show up all over wit6h no explanation of how they got there

[west coral]

airfare

[light osprey]

Its only called the arctic when it gets cold silly goose

[sullen cairn]

until then its the antarctic

[compact leaf]

there's a tithonian one in tanzania, then nothing, until one randomly appears near elhraz

[sullen cairn]

wasn't that thing cabao and also maybe a camarasaur

same principle though
weird

[compact leaf]

yeah it's the cabao one, either option is weird but the teeth have the distinct turiasaur look to them

[light osprey]

If only the valanginian and Hauterivian preserved actual dinosaurs

[main peak]

So this is going back in the convo a bit, but I don't think Vividen is the one who started the Bissekty Giant dromaeosaurid stuff. As far as I have read Ulughbegsaurus is potentially invalid and that the jaw fragment was actually from a dromaeosaur.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/geological-magazine/article/abs/giant-dromaeosaurid-theropod-from-the-upper-cretaceous-turonian-bissekty-formation-of-uzbekistan-and-the-status-of-ulughbegsaurus-uzbekistanensis/4543ABAB1EC19C84405EDF66A5F53124

[sullen cairn]

you will have the carcharodontosaur-eating abelisaur and you will be happy

[light osprey]

The sprawling diversity of Cretaceous ice ages

[compact leaf]

the only north american ones are randomly in cedar mountain, and the rest are european other than one asian one

[sullen cairn]

you could just say laurasian

[compact leaf]

no I don't think I will

[light osprey]

Why not Laureuroasia

[west coral]

afrolaureuroasia

[sullen cairn]

wow i sure love antarctoafroaustalasiasouthamericamalagashindustania

[light osprey]

The better term for earth

[sullen cairn]

do you think i can justify phalange something to 30%+ the linear dimensions of any not incredibly fragmentary similar taxon in the region by justifying it with an abstract saying that clade has large material once

[compact leaf]

absolutely

[light osprey]

Certainly

[compact leaf]

silly question really

[sullen cairn]

this also proves big lightning claw with 100% certainty somehow too

[elfin dragon]

i remember table saying that edmontosaurus could reach over 60 tons i would like table to explain this to me

[sullen cairn]

australian megaraptoran proximal ungual fragment that seems to be appreciably larger than australovenator

[elfin dragon]

right here

[sullen cairn]

what about it

[elfin dragon]

explain how you came up with this nonsense

[sullen cairn]

spark of intuition

[outer tusk]

it's shrimple

[elfin dragon]

i need a scientific explanation

[sullen cairn]

^

[elfin dragon]

thats not science thats nonsense

[ancient crystal]

Its Table science

[hallow spear]

He’s correct you’re wrong

[ocean drum]

In a theoretical way. Also, XREX potentially qualifies as 1.8 x the size of Rex making it 6.8 x rather than just 6 in that sense

[ocean drum]

Are you saying it in a sense that the potential largest edmontosaurus would be say 72 tons or that because of at least 6 larger edmintosaurs than the largest Rex qualify as the dinosaur being quantified as 6 x larger?

[vivid vine]

[lucid ibex]

Wow I missed some serious paleo chat lore

[outer tusk]

what 💀

[neat drum]

You speak of the mad lad who figured out that 2 ton black rhinos dont exist

[zinc solstice]

Why do people think the deinonychus fossils next to a tenontosaurus fossil is proof of deinonychus pack hunting? It could've been a predator trap

[ocean drum]

What did you mean by 6 x larger than the biggest Rex? 💀

[ocean drum]

#paleontology message (notice how I said in a theoretical way)

I just wanted to add XREX to the banter doesn't mean I agree with them

[lavish frigate]

I mean I think it’s a valid interpretation. We can’t really tell these things apart from multiple individuals being preserved together

[zinc solstice]

Yeah but I think it's most likely a tenontosaurus got stuck mud or tar and when it was dying or dead it attracted deinonychus and the deinonychus got stuck and fossilized and what are the odds a deinonychus pack hunt a tenontosaurus then all die then the tenontosaurus bleeds out then fossilizes?

[bronze storm]

The behemoth

[wanton pebble]

Disonaur

[outer tusk]

I never said that but okay

[ocean drum]

Mb replied to the wrong person 💀

[outer tusk]

try not doing that but I forgive you

[elfin dragon]

we actually have more evidence of tyrannosaurus rex being a social hunter than any raptor

[zinc solstice]

And If dromaeosaurs pack hunted then it would only be a few as out of all birds of prey ("large"modern predatory dinosaurs) only 1 hunts in actual packs like wolf packs it's likely that they were mostly solitary hunters and would only come together to breed or to mob injured,sick or dying prey like komodos

[light osprey]

One little caveat, Dromaeosaurs aren’t birds

[elfin dragon]

not all dinosaurs are birds but all birds are dinosaurs

[worldly igloo]

What paleontologists around the world need is someone who can demonstrate using their own body and voice to how dinosaurs and other prehistoric animals lived, behaved, hunted, mated, reproduced, etc. I'm someone who meets the criteria of someone who is able to do all of that.

[bright veldt]

Not quite. Tyrannosaurs yes. TyrannosaurUS no.

[elfin dragon]

which is more evidence than dromeosaurs

[serene birch]

slide some paleo pics about torvosaurus

[tough parcel]

I don't think we can extrapolate that from what we have considering:
A) Dromaeosaurs seem to be fairly hesitant to fossilize well. I'm not saying they're always fragmentary like pterosaurs, but they are not at a size that the fossilization process would be too kind.

B) The Deinonychus paper that everyone cites for solitary raptors is misinterpreted when used that way. The paper mainly proposes that Deinonychus was not taking care of their young due to differing diets. Though this is also partially wrong due to young crocodilians eating different foods from the adults and yet we know they are taken care of to a significant degree by their parents.

C) Velociraptor had a study done on it investigating the inner workings of its brain and the hearing frequency was determined to be very close to social birds. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7542195/)
In fact, IGM 100/976 plots closest to the social vocal learner Melopsittacus undulatus (budgerigar), making it feasible that V. mongoliensis utilized hearing in social interactions as well as active predation

Evidence from the hindbrain and labyrinth of IGM 100/976 suggests that V. mongoliensis had an average hearing range near 2,400 Hz (similar to modern social birds such as ravens and penguins)...

[snow python]

Is MIWG 4199 actually a Neovanator specimen

[zinc solstice]

Yeah I know that dromaeosaurs did take care of their young and probably would come together to mob prey but it's still debated whether they pack hunted or mobbed

[tough parcel]

I don't think there's a difference that matters. Of course it's not wolf-orca pack, but that is an insane level of coordination seen only in a couple species. Mobbing can still be coordinated unless you want the raptors running into each other and dying to each other

[light osprey]

Don’t we have paired Dromaeosaur trackways anyways?

[tough parcel]

Groups yes

Iirc Chinese, but really really small

[zinc solstice]

I mean It's likely that dromaeosaurs could've lived in mated pairs and maybe with their offspring grown up or the trackways were a bunch of dromaeosaurs that smelled an injured or dying or sick or dead animal

[light osprey]

How is that any less speculative than a pack hunting

[zinc solstice]

I mean it's just a guess we will never know until we have direct proof of pack hunting

[bright veldt]

I mean there was probably some sociality to a limited extent regardless

The brood nesting that goes as far back as Oviraptorosaurs requires two parents.

[zinc solstice]

I know I said that it's likely they lived in mated pairs and maybe let some of their kids stay when they grew up

And taking care of offspring was even found in ornithischians so maybe taking care of offspring for dinosaurs is ancestral for dinosaurs and maybe ornithodira

[woeful falcon]

That's a big group of very different animals to attribute that to, some of which I believe we do know don't take care of their young. Just dump their eggs and dip

[compact leaf]

sauropods seem to have dumped their eggs and dipped but in at least some groups they switch to caring for them in some capacity once they’re older

[woeful falcon]

Taking care of ones offspring also isn't a foreign concept to animalia at large. Something as different as a scorpion does it

[zinc solstice]

It's possible that basal sauropodomorphs like eoraptor took care of their offspring

And it's possible that some early pterosaurs could've too and lagerpeptids could've too

And If Silesaurids aren't ornithischians then I didn't say them already so maybe then too and lagosuchids could've taken care of their young too? Even crocodiles defend their eggs

[woeful falcon]

I mean yeah. Like I said its also not unusual across the animal kingdom to do so because something like a scorpion does it.

It's something I feel can vary quite a bit between animals, how long it takes care of their offspring, what that consists of, if they take care of them at all, whether dad is also in the picture

[sudden wind]

https://tenor.com/view/yuji-snow-mahito-snow-mahito-yuji-i-am-you-gif-16137795206299105315

[stiff osprey]

Dinosaur Park formation ornithischians

[compact leaf]

one of the few W formations that doesn’t have a sauropod

[outer tusk]

is there one for the theropods?

[stiff osprey]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/788128112457154560/1213938267758792735/Dinosaur_Park.png?ex=6600859c&is=65ee109c&hm=c895ce26a6b49932d002cda785d2168d2d32de58a1777bac5c5283dbf476dd0f&

[light osprey]

Ornithomimidae indet. >

[lavish frigate]

This is the most uncomfortable statement I’ve ever heard in my life

[outer tusk]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/543596883793412106/1217257237806841866/IMG_9036.png?ex=66035e25&is=65f0e925&hm=335dc6d385f50688f43ab7dd4935f15e8683ae1110cbe2cd9dba10e2f25bd199&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=850&height=676 okay may I ask I

I've seen this guy in the past but I never really knew what dinosaur it was suppose to be

[west coral]

Dromaeosaur

JP raptor type thing

[lavish frigate]

It’s me fr fr

[woeful falcon]

Ahh Turok Evolution. Classic. Yeah its a raptor I'm fairly sure. Idk if its any specific one or not

[outer tusk]

Gonna say this is peak.

[fossil ingot]

Thats a Big Gorgo wow

[west coral]

Who’s Cory and Lamb are those?

[compact leaf]

while I'm thinking about it random do you have the paper that has allosaurus and torvosaurus habitat preference?

I know there's something out there correlating them to open vs closed habitats but I can't remember which one is which

@light osprey I remember you talking about it at some point and you also just seem to have paleoenvironment stuff on speed dial

[stiff osprey]

bakker talks about it a lot but he doesn't actually do it... like... properly

[light osprey]

Different depositional areas where we found certain stuff correlated to certain depositional environments, don’t remember which taxa were found where

[compact leaf]

he threw cerato in there too didn't he?

I need to remember who goes where but I can't

[light osprey]

Something not densely forested

[hallow drift]

Yo I have a weird theory, Is Panjura based on Pangaea?

[woeful falcon]

The name is sure

Just as Gondwa is based on Gondwana

[hallow drift]

Oh thanks now I finally have answer to my weird brain thinking

[light osprey]

The ancient paleozoic continent dominated by redwoods, so real

[stable olive]

How good at flying was rhamphorhynchus?

[bright veldt]

Very

[bright pine]

It apparently might have been a swimmer too. Thal can't catch a break

[bright veldt]

I mean we know they were. Fossils and their anatomy suggest sitting on the water's surface like sea birds when doing certain things.

[stiff osprey]

Rhamph is something between a seagull and an albatross

[worthy dome]

rhamphorhynchus' pectoral muscle anatomy would have aligned well with what we'd predict from an animal that's floating and taking off from the water's surface :) being regularly in the water would also make sense for how many fossils we have of it. it dies while swimming and then sinks to anoxic deep ocean water and gets buried by sediments while decomposing very little

[lavish frigate]

Pterosaurs are so cool to me. The idea of animals fully covered in feathers and yet not using them to fly is so weird

And there were multiple genera the height of giraffes that somehow still flew

[bright veldt]

I mean it's basically bat but archosaur.

[lavish frigate]

It’s a combination of all flying vertebrates. A feathered beaked animal with membranous wings

[wraith kindle]

Hm, dasps seem so small in this game though.

[woeful falcon]

That's what happens when you put a modestly sized Das with an 11 meter Allosaurus, alongside everything else made bigger

[wraith kindle]

It’s certainly easy to lose a sense of scale with the bigger dinos. Everything looks small with hatz.

[sharp canyon]

Well maybe they should have designed Thala around what it was actually like

[vivid vine]

G

[frail robin]

Rhamph was very adept at flying and gliding, which is backed by it having long, slender wings, something we see in modern seabirds

[halcyon cobalt]

how heavy would masracetus be?

10 meter basilosaurid btw

[outer tusk]

Maybe like 9-10 very pushing it

[craggy trench]

for the best

[compact leaf]

who let you in here