paleontology

[topaz shell]

Humans:❌

[errant iron]

Dinosaurs really. And tbh, idk. Let me read a bit

[nocturne merlin]

the only thing ive found on utah lacrimal crests is that they were from gastonia and not utah

[errant iron]

As I said… SO MANY TIMES

They are not crests. It’s just the shape of the skull mixed with frontal perspective

Actually just bc it was bone inside the eye

[white matrix]

Any of yall know a spinosaurid tooth that was founded in Malaysia?

[errant iron]

No?

[nocturne merlin]

shouldent it be connected to the 'eyebrows' like this?

[white matrix]

It was founded in 2012 and is the first dinosaur fossil to be founded in the country.

[nocturne merlin]

siamosaurus

[errant iron]

Eh fine. Going that route

[lavish frigate]

Booooooooooooo. It’s bottom teeth should be under the lipssssss

[white matrix]

Ahh so it's habitat is in about the same area

[woeful falcon]

Don't use these. Better to stick to hartman's skeletal. You're better off not having the bump, which if there even was one I would say you don't illustrate it well. You make it as if it is a lacrimal crest rather than a lil bump

Hence why everyone is mistaking it for a crest

[nocturne merlin]

might be icthyovenator, theres lots of stuff on invalid tooth specimen spinosaurs from asia iirc

[white matrix]

Tooth in general honestly
But I guess spinosaurs have more distincted toth compared to other family

[errant iron]

I made the Utah look forward, hence it looks like that

[bright veldt]

It wouldn't have this either. Soft tissue exists but with utahraptor in particular they suddenly think it has this wierd cleft jaw. Like no.

[white matrix]

The fact that the first dino fossil founded in my country was younger then me is flabbergasting

[nocturne merlin]

was gonna point that out but i couldent tell if they were meaning that image as a bad example or a good one

[woeful falcon]

Nevertheless, what raptor has bumps like that? Again, better off sticking to Hartman's skeletal, wherein there aren't bumps on it

[white matrix]

I wonder what evidence or support that let them to think the Utahraptor have a goofy mouth

[opal pawn]

They are in feet. I did see where my math was flubbing up because I thought baby trex and baby allos might've been the same weight when they start out. Trex hatchlings were found to be within 50-100 lbs...But either way, its cool to see the growth spurts, even if the math is a bit overreaching.

[nocturne merlin]

[errant iron]

Better?

[woeful falcon]

Mucho!

[errant iron]

Any thicker or?

[white matrix]

I never knew what this thing is supposed to be
What "documentary" is this from again?

[nocturne merlin]

dinosaur revolution

[errant iron]

Dinosaur Revolution

[nocturne merlin]

gottem

[white matrix]

There we go
Corny ass name they have back in the day

[woeful falcon]

Oh, and the sclerotic ring would not be visible is the last thing, assuming that's what that is

[errant iron]

No. Eyelids

[woeful falcon]

Aight, all is well then

[white matrix]

Why exactly do reptiles need sclerotic rings?

[errant iron]

Good, good

[errant iron]

That’s were the muscles attach to for eye movement

[nocturne merlin]

so they no go jelly.

[errant iron]

And maintains the size and shape of said eyes

[white matrix]

But why is it only exclusive to reptilians/birds?

[stiff osprey]

It's not, fish and amphibians have them

[nocturne merlin]

sclera.

[opal pawn]

Trex was able to get up to 15000lbs, while Allos only got up to 4tons. I'll probably go back and do some more research on them!

[heady thunder]

I think you have to add another 4 tons to that chart

[white matrix]

But why they need extra supports for they're eyes?

[nocturne merlin]

so they dont turn into jelly

[frosty tree]

No allosaurua species got over 4 tons, but saurophaganax did, and it possibly reached up to 8. Rex was far above 6 tons, its maximum is 11.4 and its average is 8-9 tons

[sullen cairn]

If you’re somewhat liberal with your definition of allosaurus you can pretty handily get it over 4t

[opal pawn]

Gotchya ok! Can I ask where you're getting that info? I'm trying to find it but everytime I look up information it comes up with the numbers I already have.

[frosty tree]

Mostly the papers Wikipedia cites off of. I know most people don't trust them, but its all information that experts publish thats just collected and put into it. And some times I use other websites like dan folkes, for his giga and rex estimates

[bright veldt]

The largest definite allosaurus is the 9 meter 2.7 ton AMNH 680. Everything bigger than that is either Saurophagonax or in some wierd middle ground between the two which we currently don't understand. It also doesn't help that said specimen itself is immature, but there's also specimens smaller than it that're more mature so 🤷‍♂️

Who tf knows

[pastel scroll]

Saurophaganax are large allosarus specimens 🤓

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-walter-arabic-arab-muslim-gif-18401301

[opal pawn]

Ah I see...I get mine off of Google scholar and there's not any information to go off. Either way, I think the information (what little I did get) was interesting and I'll keep digging to see what else I can find.

[opal pawn]

Not much of any**

[sullen cairn]

i need to ask allosaurus' strongest soldier more about this sometime

[frosty tree]

Google scholar is fine, but usually its just related stuff, or things that mention the animal not actual studies about it.

[sullen cairn]

imo the best paleo source is word of mouth of randos on discord

[opal pawn]

LOLOL

I'm gonna stick to google scholar for now, since I can trust the papers there to at least to be credible sources. I'm headed to the library in a few days so I'll just grab some books if I can find any on the subject.

[tough parcel]

@errant iron I literally replied to your message with it

[pastel scroll]

Baby Gronk rizzed up lizzy dunne while mewing

[tough parcel]

Real

[plain stirrup]

anyone know any asian pterosaurs?

[stiff osprey]

Moganopterus is cool

[ionic marsh]

Dsungaripterus Is nice

[tacit pine]

Asiansauripterus

[stiff osprey]

shoutout to this thing

[ionic marsh]

Pterodaustro isn't asain but cool

[lucid ibex]

My son skrinkle with every single disease

[sharp canyon]

Were there ever any amphibians with some degree of scaling? Scales seems to be present in almost every animal group from what I've seen

[warped peak]

I know a lot about this!

Basically, some Temnospondyls still had fish like scales that grew under the skin. This includes Prionosuchus and that whole group.

Reptile scales evolved well after Amphibians had fully lost their scales. Some scales in Temnospondyls even adapted into solid osteoderm plates covering the belly, such as with the Archegosaurs

It was only a relic of their transitional state. Most opted to loss their scales to allow better subcutaneous breathing

[sharp canyon]

Huh, neat

[slim needle]

Mongol Giant

[snow python]

What was the largest theropod from Australia?

[tough parcel]

Yes! (The only large one described is Australovenator)

[sullen cairn]

prolly those big jurassic footprints

[tough parcel]

Footprints

I will turn you into a Missing 411 case

[ocean drum]

For instance

[lavish frigate]

Ah so footprints are only good when it’s convenient I see (insert shrimply emoji that doesn’t exist here)

[tough parcel]

[crude latch]

[latent cedar]

I'm likely gonna get SCREAMED at by some of you but I'm currently redoing a concept drawing and I'm trying to get at least a LITTLE accurate to the raptor's footing, any tips are very much appreciated, the only thing I know rn is that the wings are too big (i think) and the fact that their body structure is inaccurate but those are easy fixes, however, I always have trouble with the legs.

[willow frigate]

Just asking this because I’m confused; would 10 tons really be a “generalization of the species” for tyrannosaurus? If the skeletal reference used in this chart is Scottie (I think?) because PoT’s rex is based on Scottie I’d understand, but the blurb at the bottom says all the sizes are generalizations.

Or rex really is 10 tons on average??

[sullen cairn]

average rex is like 7-8t prolly leaning on the upper end of that

[willow frigate]

Ok that’s what I thought

[alpine summit]

Reposting this as I don't think anyone saw it last time. I would like others opinions on it.
https://dinosaursandbarbarians.com/2020/04/06/ceratosaurus-osteoderms-a-revised-perspective/

[bright veldt]

They’re generalizations in the sense that I didn’t go for 12.3 meters and 9700 kg for trex for example

I intentionally simplify things. It’s not averages. It’s general max sizes because that’s the best thing to do when you’re you’re comparing animals with sample sizes ranging from 1 to over 100

[viscid surge]

Based PoT

[left scaffold]

It's funny watching people wanting to wreak havoc due to a video game

[tough parcel]

I uh...don't recall if I had pinged you in the channel initially, so if I didn't, so sorry

#386660586341138438 message but here

[white matrix]

Does being a paleo researcher requires good art skills considering you have to make renditions and drawings of said interpretations of a creauture?

[somber nebula]

Not necessarily, some people just aren't too artistically gifted, I think they're fine long as they can describe or at least understand the most accurate interpretations of a (well understood) prehistoric creature

[errant iron]

Hello everyone! Is it true any dinosaur has the ability to break bones?

[white matrix]

There big
Scary
And strong
So...yes?

I mean,if you mean things like chicken bones,then a house cat can do that. Sooooo...

[errant iron]

Is this true?

[sullen cairn]

I mean I wouldn’t count on a sparrow breaking much of anything’s bones

[errant iron]

Yeah… I only said Tyrannosaurs bc they were more built for it

Sure any huge theropod could do it, but tyrannosaurs evolved to break them by bite

[willow frigate]

I see. So that size of tyrannosaurus is based on a generalization of a few of the largest adult rex specimens instead of every adult rex ever, in an effort to avoid comparing the entire tyrannosaurus fossil record with some barsboldia back vertebrae from one single specimen (for example).

Correct?

[errant iron]

Yeah another thing: only bites. No rams

[white matrix]

There's alot of dinosaurs
90% of theropods can break bones mostly bcz that's kinda there whole thing? (Yes yes,I know creatures like the giganotosaurus have teeth that specialises more on slicing then crushing.)

[errant iron]

The conversation revolved around bone- crunching bites

[white matrix]

What kind of bones bcz as you know,diffrent creatures have diffrent durability to there bones

[errant iron]

I argued only tyrannosaurids had that capability

[errant iron]

I guess: the bones of any other huge Dino?

[sullen cairn]

Any Dinos can break bone is such a vague and generalized statement its essentially meaningless

[errant iron]

It counts only bites

[white matrix]

I pretty sure tyranosaurids aren't the only group of predatory dinosaurs that can crush bones with bite force. It's a very regular method of taking down a prey even modern day animals is capable of it (on creatures relative to they're size I meant).

[sullen cairn]

Most large theropods could definitely bite through bone but most dinosaurs aren’t large theropods

[errant iron]

Wouldn’t really imagine a Giganotosaurus breaking the bones of another large creature like another Giga

To kill an animal, only damage the vital arteries in the neck. No?

[sullen cairn]

There are several animals even I can break the bones of with the caveat said animals are multiple times smaller than me

[white matrix]

Because cretaceous Argentina houses some of the most comically large creatures that evolving to a hunting method that focused more on tearing flesh for meals is much more effective

[willow frigate]

Yeah but even if a theropods intention isn’t to break bones it doesn’t mean that it just won’t

[errant iron]

Well true. Size does matter, so won’t be counting large theropods against small dinosaurs. Bc it’s obvious

I mean large creatures against large creatures.

[white matrix]

Yeah
These are still predators that weighs tons.
Not to be rude but asking whether or not they can break bones is just kinda...redundant?

[sullen cairn]

What’s considered large

[errant iron]

It’s confusing isn’t it

[white matrix]

Not really

[errant iron]

Idk. Several tons? Like at least 5 tons?

[tough parcel]

The mighty Ceratosaurus…bone-crushing hyena of the Morrison……

[errant iron]

I mean yeah, totally agree. Any creature can break bones of others. But of ones around its weight class

Like a Rex against a Trike. A Giga against… another Giga lol

[white matrix]

Probably?

[sullen cairn]

i would like to wish all everyone a very ceratosaurus has a 10kN+ bite force

[willow frigate]

Idk I’m sure a giga could break another giga’s arm if it bit it

[errant iron]

Definitely. But I mean… they r very small

[white matrix]

I mean the Giga isn't as dense as a rex (as most theropods are)
Idk if this is outdated but here you go

[willow frigate]

What are you asking homie?

[plain stirrup]

are these the most of the “main” birds that lived in hell creek

[sullen cairn]

pretty sure almost all large theropods would have effectively the same density

unless you're a spinosaurid or something

[errant iron]

I say really only the Tyrannosaurids have that ability to break really any bone in another large animal? (Ignoring each other’s arms)

[white matrix]

Frail looking ass

[sullen cairn]

i bet a giga could break another's giga's ribs

[errant iron]

I mean… T.REX CAN BREAK THE HORNS OF A TRIKE

[willow frigate]

What about their ribs?? Tip of tail? Lower jaw?

[white matrix]

No?
I pretty anything that's build to kill most of the time have the function to break bones

[sullen cairn]

if only this question had some actual qualifications and constraints

[willow frigate]

Right

[errant iron]

I APOLOGIZE. THE CONTEXT IS FEW

[white matrix]

Rex just build like that
It has been estimated to have the strongest bite force EVER

[errant iron]

It sounds like I’m grasping at straws now lol

Ima just…

[sullen cairn]

me when 140kN rex bite force because "extrapolated dynamics"

you could prolly try asking the other guy for more clarification on what they're saying considering that seems to be the root of the ambiguity

[sullen cairn]

if anything's missing good chance it's here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleobiota_of_the_Hell_Creek_Formation#Eumaniraptorans

[white matrix]

I think bro really just asked "is tyranosaurid the only dino that can break bones of they're equivalent size?"
I dont think we need much debate on that

[sullen cairn]

we should totally drag lance into pot that'd be a great idea

[tough parcel]

I've tried, he ripped my arm off and I had to wait a couple weeks for it to regrow

[white matrix]

Also
I got a question
If panthera is a family in the taxonomy order,and thing like lions,tigers etc are considered genus,then why do most people still calls them "species"?

[compact leaf]

Panthera is a genus, lions and tigers are species within that genus

[woeful falcon]

And the family is felidae

[white matrix]

???
For some reason I feel like modern life is much more simpler to study then prehistoric one's
Not cuz they're still alive though that is one of the reasons,but because things are much more generalised and not so painfully specific

[willow frigate]

The family would be felidae

[willow frigate]

Thanks blub 👍

[woeful falcon]

That too

Yw long my good pal and chum 👍

[white matrix]

Like if dinosaur were to live in the modern time,would people really categorised them for the slightest diffrence?

[willow frigate]

It definitely is lmao

[tough parcel]

They already do

But they would 100% classify them via genetics

[velvet burrow]

Until you get to inverts
Nah, that's more a result of simplification for the general culture

[woeful falcon]

Ye. If dinosaurs lived in the modern time, we'd have more at our disposal to classify them.

[willow frigate]

Not because life is any less complex or anything, but because genetics are much easier to study on things that didn’t die millions of years ago

[sullen cairn]

t. regina lives....

[white matrix]

Allas...
We have not but rocks to work with

[tough parcel]

Woah...............

[sudden wind]

Extant classification has more metrics but it's still some sort of mess because it remains extremely subjective. Tho it honestly is the case of overall cladistic a d phylogenies.

There are various definitions for a specie and you cannot apply only one and think that it will automatically work as actual living world does not fit our mindsets.

[sullen cairn]

wow i sure hope we have a handle on red wolves after all we have genetics and stuff at our disposal right guys plz

[willow frigate]

True that

[sudden wind]

The question with genetic is then that how much differences you will insert and actually use to consider 2 organisms/groups as separated species.

[velvet burrow]

Wait, lemme...

[sudden wind]

You also have to use morphological differences, ecological, possibly metabolic differences and other physiological metrics if they are different between each geographical populations.

[willow frigate]

Very true… when is it right to call dogs c. familiarus rather than c. lupus?

[sudden wind]

There are sure some cases where it is easier than others, but between closely related animals it can be hard.

[sullen cairn]

for these reasons and many more it is far simpler to treat every individual catalogued specimen as a separate independent taxonomic unit

[velvet burrow]

I said this once, supposedly it's like this in most of the cases now, i'm not sure

[sudden wind]

That's honestly what it is done when you go into phylogeny analysis with extant animals. Then you subjectively say that this group is a single species based on differences on various levels.

[velvet burrow]

One of the things that make a species is being a reprodutively isolated population (well, the main one)

[white matrix]

Meaning?

[heady thunder]

Meaning they only do each other successfully

[velvet burrow]

Basically

[willow frigate]

So then is it right that red wolves and coyotes are classified as different species even though they can breed so well that coyotes are helping to breed red wolves out of existence?

[sudden wind]

That unfortunately does not always work. For example, blue whales are known to have very much genetic material in common with other balaenopterids due to hybridization with them. That's the case of the flue (blue + fin whale) which also is capable of viable reproduction. It can also breed again with blue whales.

[white matrix]

That's more straightforward then I thought.

[willow frigate]

But it’s not

Nature doesn’t care about classifications of different species, it’s humans that do that, and that’s where problems arise

[velvet burrow]

If the product of said breeding is infertile then it's a hybrid, meaning they are different species

[sudden wind]

Unfortunately it does not always work like that.

[velvet burrow]

Because on top of reproducing with each other, that reproduction should be of fertile offspring

[heady thunder]

Its the main factor, there are others ofc, but this one is the biggest one, if this one cant be done, you cant be the same species.

[sudden wind]

As fin whales are actually some of the most distantly related rorqual to blue whales.

[lavish frigate]

There are fertile hybrids ❔

[velvet burrow]

One of the problems imo is that with modern animals we're also dealing with remnants of old classifications

[heady thunder]

That is definitely true.

[sudden wind]

Dolphins also are capable of hybridizing with several species and exchange genetic material via giving viable offspring (dolphin evolution is more so like a web than anything).

[white matrix]

Someone needs to give me the lore of how this turns into a whale

[sudden wind]

Real and true.

[heady thunder]

As the one species which can destroy the planet the best, I believe we have the right to class the others

[willow frigate]

It just took a swim once and turned into a whale 🤷‍♂️

[velvet burrow]

Saw fish and felt nostalgic

[white matrix]

Bro over-leveled himself

[white matrix]

And if it is fertile?

[sudden wind]

Gotta give a simple answer :

• fish were plentiful
• some predatory ungulates were taking refuge to aquatic environments and exploited the ressources
• was advantageous for their survival
• random mutations were selected as it gave more advantages
• speciation gets in
• through generations, the offspring differentiated from their parents and were more competent swimmers and aquatic foragers

[willow frigate]

Mine was much simpler tbh

[sudden wind]

Yeah but I didn't like it 🗣️🗣️

[white matrix]

You ain't technically wrong

[heady thunder]

Then you get into genetics etc and the scientific community will decide.

[willow frigate]

Fair enough

[sullen cairn]

its nice this channel has had two consecutive disucssions that both amounted almost entirely to pure semantics

[white matrix]

Indeed
We're after all just Internet possessed bums that pretends like we understand science

[bright veldt]

The reason why the Middle East was kinda the cradle of Whale Evolution was because of the area becoming a desert hellscape early in the Eocene, which forced early whales to take advantage of aquatic food, and a lack of immediate predators in the area

[sudden wind]

There are tons of videos about cetacean evolution so finding explanations is quite easy.

[sudden wind]

Was it already desertic?

Though I should have added that there were lacks of aquatic predators and competitors in my resume.

Forgot about it but that's the main reason as for how come some animals adapt to new niches.

[willow frigate]

Walking with beasts shows ambulocetus filling a crocodile type niche, how likely is this with what we know now?

Just wondering since we’re on the topic of whale evolution

[heady thunder]

Idk if this happens or has ever happened, but they can also be classified as different, cos someone did call them different and it stuck, no idea, just talking out of my bum.

[bright veldt]

Yes and no. I doubt ambuleocetus was picky, but tmk it’s now considered a completely aquatic early whale. It couldn’t go on land.

[sudden wind]

Saw this being debated quite numerous times but afaihbt it's not unlikely. Would have mostly gone for fish and was maybe or not uncapable of land locomotion (also debated).

[white matrix]

How am I supposed to sleep well after this?

[willow frigate]

Ok ok, so probably more likely to pursue fish than ambush prey at the shoreline, but it’s not completely out of the realm of possibility

[heady thunder]

Platypus, but with teeth

[sudden wind]

Probably ambush fish, caught turtles and small crocs on the occasion as well as water birds and was yet capable of snatching stuffs near the shoreline.

[white matrix]

No wonder they evolved toothbrush in they're mouth it's to cover that atrocity of teeths

[sudden wind]

I do wonder how strong it's bite force was.

There are no studies about that.

Yet we have a complete skull and can reconstruct the musculature.

(going to sleep have to wake up in 5 hours but wish I could continue to discuss about these subjects. For once this channel is not flooded with dinosaurs or accuracy questions but more so evolution dynamics)

[velvet burrow]

Then with that criteria they should be same species

And there are species that can produce fertile offspring(polar bears and brown bears) but idk how much of that is due to old classifications or if there's a genetic criteria i'm unaware of

[hoary jay]

Spino split jaw, tell me about it

Please?

[lavish frigate]

Wasn’t real

[hoary jay]

Tf does that even mean

[lavish frigate]

It didn’t split. Just got really wide at the back to swallow big stuff

The end didn’t split apart

[hoary jay]

That’s what I was thinking. But someone says it could split

[lavish frigate]

I have art I think I can find….

[lavish frigate]

Went down the rabbit hole and found an animation

[velvet burrow]

That's mostly a meme

[outer tusk]

how big was Shastasaurus in weight

[plain stirrup]

are these all the dinosaurs from hell creek, and which ones are invalid or dont belong?

Acheroraptor
Alamosaurus?
Ankylosaurus
Anzu
Avisaurus
Dakotaraptor
Denversaurus
Edmontosaurus
Eoneophron
Leptoceratops
Nanotyrannus
Orcomimus
Ornithomimus
Pachycephalosaurus
Paronychodon
Pectinodon
Platytholus
Richardoestesia
Sphaerotholus
Struthiomimus
Tatankaceratops
Thescelosaurus
Torosaurus
Triceratops
Trierarchuncus
Tyrannosaurus

[lavish frigate]

Dakotaraptor is my favorite Dromaeosaur, oviraptorosaur,turtle,lizard and therizinosaur (aka it’s very very invalid and silly )

[plain stirrup]

asked in another server and said dakota was fine, although im not to knowledgeable when it comes to that, can you explain it?

[lavish frigate]

It’s a mess of a chimera with a lot of different animals combined

[tough parcel]

Tatanka, Nano, and Dakota are all dubious

[plain stirrup]

and alamo?

[bright veldt]

Pectinodon as well

[compact leaf]

alamo just isn't found in hell creek proper, there's remains from further south though

it is feasible for some to move further north into the southern parts of hell creek we just haven't found them yet

[stiff osprey]

mamenchisaur empire

[compact leaf]

why is the indet. so big, what is a mamenchisaur doing that big who let him do that

he's just neck it ain't right I tell you

[stiff osprey]

when a single one of your cervicals is longer than 25% of humanity is tall

[warped peak]

33m long Mamenchisaur what

[stiff osprey]

technically i am downsizing it from 35m

[warped peak]

good god

[compact leaf]

waiting for the mythical 30m+ turiasaur to show up and round out the collection

[warped peak]

that's a lot of neck

[stiff osprey]

they won't get to 30m, not without breaking their no neck rule, but pretty sure a 26m one is coming

[compact leaf]

turiasaurs deeply concern me

is the 26m one european?

[stiff osprey]

yeah, angeac

[compact leaf]

that's what I thought

I'm struggling to even visualize a 26m turiasaur that thing is gonna look bizarre

[stiff osprey]

a 26m turiasaur is basically the same size as a 35m mamenchisaur lmao
it's all shed neck

[compact leaf]

hopefully it gets a good name when it's described

a 26m turiasaur deserves to have a cool sounding name

[outer tusk]

is there a 105t esimate for Cachalot Whale?

[west coral]

It’s been informally named “Francoposeidon”

[tough parcel]

No it hasn't, don't spread misinformation

Only a select few can, then it's funny

[mossy anchor]

Does anyone have any information on prehistoric fossils before paleontology? im talking how did ancient civilizations and tribes interpret fossils they may have found. i know a lot of them believed fossils to be the work of higher beings, but i would love some specific examples. thank you!

[west coral]

Dragons, basically

[warped peak]

I know Ammonites were named after their connection to Amon-Ra and resembling their Ram Horns, hence the name "Horn of Amon Ra"

[bright veldt]

Teeth of prehistoric sharks like megalodon were thought to be the tips of dragon tongues

[compact leaf]

a few whales and at least one coelodonta skull were thought to be parts of dragons

[tough parcel]

Iirc there's a tale for the Dilophosaurus holotype(?) where the Native American guides who brought the paleontologists to the site demanded a priestess be there otherwise they wouldn't go. They believed the skeleton to be of a demon + they interpreted (Native Americans as a whole) fossilized dinosaur footprints as coming from giant birds

[tough parcel]

http://markwitton-com.blogspot.com/2016/04/why-protoceratops-almost-certainly.html

🤓

[outer tusk]

Is this still usable?

[west coral]

[somber nebula]

Gonna go out on a limb and say that indeterminate Metriacanthosaurid is Yangchuanosaurus

[mossy anchor]

Tysm for all the answers yall. I’ll take this as a huge stepping stone for some research. Im doing a research paper and need to be super specific with sources and etc

[median crystal]

anyone know good weight estimates for elasmosaurus or other similarly sized elasmosaurs?

[warped peak]

I feel I've seen 12t estimates for Elasmo

[lavish frigate]

Obligatory allosaurus accuracy question

I love giving big theropods peach fuzz

[sudden wind]

The belly scales are like millimeters wide though.

[sullen cairn]

i am growing increasingly convinced albertosaurus hates living (no using the largest specimen for everything else is not cheating)

[heady thunder]

That alberto looks, wrong, like its 20% more legs then it should

[snow python]

How long and heavy was Pycnonemosaurus?

[sullen cairn]

about 9m and 3000kg

[snow python]

Fully grown?

[sullen cairn]

no way to really know for certain

just somewhat larger by an indeterminate amount
could be 500kg larger could be 3000kg larger

[storm heron]

Albertosaurus, an interesting Tyrannosaurid

[lost hedge]

Whats the weight and length of the megalania dinosaur

[stoic tinsel]

i dont think alberto lived with eotrike

nvm its probably also found in the carbon with eotrike

thats two massive 5 tonne ceratopsids its living with

[lavish frigate]

Explain

[tough parcel]

There's not much to elaborate on there, they are millimeters wide meaning at a distance, they're not visible

When up close, they are so incredibly small, it doesn't matter

[lavish frigate]

Wait do we have allo belly scales? If so I wouldn’t have gone off the concavenator snake lookin ones

[tough parcel]

I mean, yea, they're still snake-like

But as I said

[lavish frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/rain-sad-man-man-in-rain-gif-23062134 idk why this GIF represents my emotional state because of this news….but it do

[vocal breach]

Firstly, it’s not a dinosaur, secondly idk

[light osprey]

How large is this particular Albertosaurus

[stiff osprey]

probably ROM 807, which is one of the larger ones but not the largest

[snow python]

5,5-7m and 500-600kg

And is a lizard, not a dinosaur

[warped peak]

Isn't 600kg on the lowest end of upper estimates?

[somber nebula]

Just went down a rabbit hole on the Early Cretaceous Wessex Formation, probably the most interesting range of dinosaur species I've seen in a Formation. There's some species that are holdouts from the Jurassic (like Neovenator and various Heterodontosaurids), mixed with early members of clades that would go on to dominate in the Late Cretaceous (like a few decently large Dromaeosaurids, an early Tyrannosaur, and an indeterminate Oviraptorosaur) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wessex_Formation#Theropods

Alongside some staples of the Early Cretaceous like a couple Spinosaurids, some basal Ankylosaurs, and a couple Somphospondylan Sauropods

[compact leaf]

lots of brachiosaurids there as well

[sullen cairn]

and megaraptoran

[sullen cairn]

wait i just realized we have megaraptoran vs carcharodontosaur (which we already had in thailand but that's not the point)

which means tyrannosauroid vs carcharodontosaur

[stiff osprey]

there aren't megaraptorans in wessex though

[sullen cairn]

evil https://twitter.com/CassCretaceous/status/1744380748356784418/photo/1

Cass Morrison (@CassCretaceous) on X

If anyone is coming to the 200 Dinosaur conference, be sure to check out my poster:

A megaraptoran braincase from the Early Cretaceous of the Isle of Wight (U.K.) and its implications for theropod evolution and diversity

Art by the talented Sergey Krasovskiy and Pedro Salas

Twitter · Jan 8, 2024, 3:29 PM

[stiff osprey]

oh that one

idk if it's wessex though
for a tiny island, the isle of wight has like 8 different mesozoic formations in it

[sullen cairn]

the svp abstract seems to imply wessex

which is nice because imo wessex is the funniest option

granted that's largely because i don't care about what's in the upper greenland formation

[coarse pewter]

Did kaprosuchus actually stand like a dog rather than slouched like a caiman? I keep hearing about it and I was curious.

[stiff osprey]

No, its legs were not found and its close relatives have a croc-like posture

There are mesozoic ''crocs'' with upright postures though, like Baurusuchus

[serene birch]

slide some paleo art of torvosaurus aswell as size estimates etc

👍

[somber nebula]

Love the insane diversity of theropods in Early Cretaceous Europe.

[somber nebula]

Most likely was just a more terrestrial version of the Cuban Croc, with nastier teeth. Physically it probably looked almost identical to the Cuban Croc, minus the teeth.
They weren't closely related, just Crocodiles keep evolving into the same 5 animals over and over again.

[chilly knot]

based this postcrania

[lavish frigate]

And all vertebrates are fish

[snow python]

How big was Penza Mosasaurus?

[light osprey]

Whatever incinerox said it was

[light osprey]

12.2

[warped peak]

I'm sorry it implies what?

[warped peak]

As a wes, I assure you it's not

[sullen cairn]

be hypacrosaurus
cmn 8501 has a 71cm skull and 1.074m femur
fit 1.074m femur into gsp skeletal
under 8m
apparently thing is supposed to be over 8m
find 83cm skull
oh

[outer tusk]

does a tylosaurus at 22t exist?

[stiff osprey]

no

[serene mist]

how big is db giga?

[dry zealot]

It is 13.6m in length

[dry zealot]

Like Salomon mentioned Kaprosuchus based on what we know of it was definitely similar to Cuban Croc, it was not as tall and lanky as popular media shows

[warped peak]

Is there any evidence of other horned Gorgonopsids/near gorgonopsids? Outside of this family and Anteo

Biarmosuchians

[dry zealot]

Could've sworn there were a few more? But i am not entirely sure if you'd call bumps horns. What constitutes horns in your book?

[warped peak]

Hm thats a fair point, I am using Horn a bit loosely here

Just overall large protrusions from the skull

[shell moon]

This is a species of whale that is here in Chile, (specifically in a University)

[ancient crystal]

I wish my university had a whale skeleton just displayed on campus

[tough parcel]

@vernal fable This is the holotype for Spinosaurus (Picture and then illustration)

[crude latch]

Looks pretty damn complete 😏

[tough parcel]

Vs the neotype (in blue)

Which yes, isn't as much as many people think as "complete", but for Spinosaurus (and spinosaurs in general), it's pretty decent. It also covers every major section of the body so we can be more confident in reconstructions now.

[vernal fable]

Ooohhh. So indeed overtime we have been getting closer

[tough parcel]

👍 We 100% have! Legit the only thing you could argue changing significantly would be arms and back of the skull, but both are not as horribly drastic as the other changes (unless you believe the arms are the key in locomotion for Spinosaurus, fun fact: they aren't)

[sullen cairn]

congratulations to 2/3 of the giant spinosaurus elements for not overlapping whatseover with holotype and neotype of questionable neotypiness

[compact leaf]

we should all strive to leave notes as detailed as stromer

[sullen cairn]

he's so real for this

I refuse to participate in the abuse of coining new genus and species names on the basis of such isolated and totally incomplete remains, which then, due to the, for palaeontology completely inadequate, priority rules of nomenclature and their senseless pedantic application, will have to be used for further nomenclatorial acts.

[vernal fable]

Thank chu for letting me know some more information about it! I'll keep this in mind ❤️

[tough parcel]

Bro was ahead of his time

[outer tusk]

Stromer is an actual legendary leader and I repsect him greatly

[compact leaf]

we need more stromers in this field

[outer tusk]

^

[topaz shell]

Clone stromer

[sullen cairn]

"now let's see how much of this is unanimously agreed to be spinosaurus sensu stricto"

[light osprey]

This is a Stromer quote?

[stiff osprey]

yes

[light osprey]

Ahead of his time…. The hero we need but not the one we deserve….

[sullen cairn]

i'm torn between if if i should average out the skull bone measurements rather than scale with skull length alone because 1.25m hypacrosaurus femur is really funny

[shell moon]

Yeah...

[outer tusk]

hey @stiff osprey may I ask for mass can I still use your 2016 mosasaur size chart

[sullen cairn]

wait nvm there's a 1.2m stebingeri femur apparently

[light osprey]

Those silhouettes, I’d probably update em

[outer tusk]

I was just wondering is 12t mosa or 14t tylo was okay for a mass

[stiff osprey]

My chart's mosasaurs are undersized, except Bruce which is oversized

Mosasaurus should weigh what, 9, 10 tons at Penza size

[outer tusk]

so Mosasaurus would be 9-10 using Penza size and Tylosaurus would be 5.2t?

[light osprey]

Incinerox got 10.4 for Penza

The Quadrate….

[outer tusk]

15.9t?

[light osprey]

Maybe, idr

14 metres long for certain

[outer tusk]

okay

so Mosasaurus would be bigger than Tylosaurus using Penza?

[light osprey]

Yes

[outer tusk]

so for Tylosaurus terms of mass how big do you think it would've resonably gotten if 21t Tylo is out of the picture?

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/tony-stark-eyeglass-exellent-question-gif-12818139

Random should have all the answers, idk if the big paleo have made any Tylosaurus gdis

[outer tusk]

ah

just wondering as regardless of my usage of this information outside of thsi server I still wish to be informed as much as possible

[light osprey]

If I had to guess, less than 15 tonnes for the big Tylosaurus species

Pretty broad as well, preferably I guess hovering closer to 10 tonnes

[velvet burrow]

The neotype is not neotyping

[sullen cairn]

if you include the 4m skull i just made up it was probably at least 12 tons

[velvet burrow]

Can't wait to find a complete egyptian specimen to show us that the current spinosaurus is the biggest most fraudulent composite known to mankind

Well, second one after pre-Sophie stegosaurus

[light osprey]

Wow how insightful thanks 🙏 ☺️

[sullen cairn]

corythosaurus is a really stupid animal

[sullen cairn]

sweet hypacrosaurus altispinus grows 1000kg larger if i only scale with the (two) specimens i can find a femur and skull length for and choose to ignore any stebingeri specimens

[scenic flame]

https://vxtwitter.com/newsfromscience/status/1762168211905114289?s=46

[main peak]

Just to be clear, Anomodonts (such as Tiarajudens, Suminia, Lisowicia and other Dicynodonts) are more closely related to Gorgonopsids than Biarmosuchians are.

[warped peak]

I'm aware, that's why I corrected my language. More basing it on appearance

[main peak]

There is a fair range of diversity in Gorgonopsid interpretations, from shrink-wrapped reptilian things to chunky mammal analogues

Some of them did have some significant ridges on their skull though I guess

[scenic flame]

tyrannosaur mammal

[small geyser]

That would be Anteosaurus.

[warped peak]

Rubidgeans had less of pronounced ridges and more of just a really huge skull

[main peak]

Indeed, but it is the most you are probably gonna get

[open compass]

Is this real?

[stiff osprey]

yes

[open compass]

Dodo is beautiful

[lavish frigate]

That first one looks freakin HUMAN

[nocturne merlin]

bahariasaurus exists right?

[warped peak]

Yes although we don't know much more than that

[nocturne merlin]

its a carcharodontosaur right?

im seeing lots of things with it relating to deltadromeus

[tough parcel]

It was considered to be potentially the largest known theropod. This specimen was destroyed in an air raid during World War II on the night of 23/24 April 1944.

The questionable remains of Bahariasaurus from the Farak Formation of Niger, which consist of a proximal caudal centrum (65 mm), two mid caudal centra and three mid caudal centra (from different individuals) were discovered some time later during the 20th century and described by de Lapparent in 1960.[1][7] It is possible that these remains may have belonged to another unrelated theropod.

[warped peak]

Any more specific answer is basically impossible right now

[nocturne merlin]

right so ill choose smth else, thanks for the info

[white matrix]

Are paleontology and paleozoology the same thing?

[bleak iron]

https://dinoanimals.com/dinosaurs/the-heaviest-ornithopods-top-10/

https://dinoanimals.com/dinosaurdatabase/barsboldia-sicinskii/

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4734675&page=1

Bars at the very least was as large as the largest elephants and several websites put them up to 12 tons.

[tough parcel]

Reading through Wiki, they seem to be (or at the very least, paleozoology is a branch of paleontology)

[white matrix]

I think it's just fossil analysis

[sullen cairn]

thank you dino animals dot com

[last iron]

And abc news

[sullen cairn]

after intense deliberation of giving up on trying to find actual measurements for two specimens i have concluded that calling tenontosaurus tilletti "rhino-sized" is actually pretty reasonable when you ignore white and indian rhinos

[heady thunder]

So, you ignore the rhinos people actually care about?

[sullen cairn]

yes

[heady thunder]

Wait, I forgot that there are black rhinos, you are ignoring 2/3 of the important rhinos

[sullen cairn]

see i'm right

although you also have to ignore exceptionally large black rhinos

[heady thunder]

And not count the smaller tenontos

[sullen cairn]

tbf i'm not sure how large smaller black rhinos are

[heady thunder]

800-1400 kg, the biggest males almost 3 tons.

[sullen cairn]

if you ignore the obnoxiously big ones they overlap pretty well give or take one or two hundred kilos

[stiff osprey]

if you ignore adult elephants it is pretty reasonable to consider albertosaurus elephant sized

[sullen cairn]

granted unless estes 1992 is lying to everyone i think that comprises adults

saying that i'm not actually sure what they consider adults
this is what i get for tiptoeing around mammal size estimates isn't it

how about i rephrase it as "skeletally mature tenontosaurus tilletti are broadly congruent in size with the usually cited mass for typical adult black rhinos"

[pastel tartan]

Whats this

[sullen cairn]

ngl wikipedia is ass at phrasing things

however unusually large male specimens have been reported at up to 2,896 kg (6,385 lb).

man

i like how wikipedia completely neglects to mention the 2800kg cows

[coarse pewter]

Would spinosaurus have lips like other theropods or would it have a crocodile snout? Very curious 🧐

[nocturne merlin]

lips

[light osprey]

Toothy

[nocturne merlin]

https://www.skeletaldrawing.com/home/the-lip-post1

[heady thunder]

Paleontologist can say whatever, the only way Ill accept lipped spino is if they clone it back to life to verify.

[light osprey]

The Hartman post isn’t about Spinosaurs

[compact leaf]

spinosaurids can go either way unlike every other theropod where lips is the right answer

[light osprey]

They had no oral tissue at all, just bare musculature and bone

[pastel tartan]

Is this a auriculatus tooth

[nocturne merlin]

wouldent say so, seems to curved and not enough pronounced serations

[pastel tartan]

Then what could it be

[nocturne merlin]

do you know where its from/collected from?

[pastel tartan]

North Carolina

[stiff osprey]

how does one specimen weigh the exact same in kg as another does in lbs... curious

[sullen cairn]

hmm today i will mention black rhinos as a metric to compare tenontosaurus to
decades-spanning rhinoceros mass conspiracy

the depths i will sink to in order to remain correct

with this in mind i'm reinstating my black rhino comparison

[light osprey]

Why is Tenontosaurus so fat

[sullen cairn]

because for some reason people assume paul always uses large specimens for things even though he literally has a 4t magnapualia

y'know there's something really funny to be found in one guy accidentally doubling the mass of a population of rhinos because they swapped lb and kg and subsequently ruining black rhinoceros mass in literature

[neat drum]

animal sizes always will amuse me because theres no standardized method to weighing any animal which has led to some bonkers stuff(see: large reptiles)

[light osprey]

The mass…. It’s always been a lie…

[somber nebula]

The real question is; Would a black rhino do well against a pack of Deinonychus?
According to a bunch of outdated/inaccurate art I saw at a museum once so it must be correct, Tenontosaurus gets bodied by them.

[neat drum]

deinonychus dies immediately because of the rhino's mammalian cunning

[sullen cairn]

wait so did we just like kill 2t+ black rhinos as a concept

[light osprey]

Yes

[bleak igloo]

هلا

[neat drum]

mfw domestic horses are larger than black rhinos

(1.6t vs ~1.2t)

[light osprey]

The true titans of Perissodactyla

[sullen cairn]

do i get a cookie for this i think i deserve a cookie or something

[light osprey]

You’ll have to purchase it yourself unfortunately

[somber nebula]

Mfw human-influenced breeding and a domesticated, nutrient-rich lifestyle has caused a species of large, but not massive Perissodactyls, become some of the largest land animals on the planet

[neat drum]

you get a cookie(it has raisins in it)

[sullen cairn]

worthless

[neat drum]

should spread the word to mammalia

[sullen cairn]

worst case i can always blame random for this considering he was the one who actually pointed out the discrepancy

[light osprey]

Which Domestic breed is it cause I wanna see a lil photo

[neat drum]

shires, brabants, and american belgium drafts(the largest known domestic horse is a shire, but brabants and american belgiums are larger on average than shires)

[white matrix]

guys whats the update on livyatan

[somber nebula]

Shire Horses (>1.1 tons) and American Belgian Drafts (>1.36 tons)

[somber nebula]

Largest horse ever recorded was a Shire who weighed up to about 1.6 tons, so it was bigger than a black rhino

[nocturne merlin]

wrong chat dawg but theres nothin new

[white matrix]

damn i just want my livyatan😭

[neat drum]

exactly

This is the largest verified domestic horse

[light osprey]

Can’t wait for the post-Holocene megafauna

[sullen cairn]

its neck/torso looks like a pastry

[stiff osprey]

Brother can look an asian elephant in the eye

[last iron]

That thing looks like it eats babies

[neat drum]

in paleo fashion this horse is to be the go-to size ref for all horses

just to prove that a horse could beat a tyrannosaurus rex in a fight

[sullen cairn]

"hadrosaurs are like horses not elephants and rhinos" mfs when the horses are the size of elephants and rhinos

for legal reasons i have to clarify the elephant part was a joke

[somber nebula]

Same. I'm thinking variations of horses, cattle, and general livestock will be the inheriters of the world post-Holocene, if we don't destroy it ofc.

[sullen cairn]

beware the tenontosaurus and rhinos -> horse glazing pipeline

[neat drum]

hey someone throw me the most up to date big theropod size chart pls

[light osprey]

This reminds me of something I’ve been pondering, were the relative saturations of megafauna between Cretaceous and Quaternary roughly equivalent or is there really a huge disparity

[somber nebula]

"B-but hadrosaurs didn't have horns and tusks!!! They were defenceless and had to run from predators!!!!"

**16 ton Shantungosaurus **

[last iron]

Hadrosaurs had to lay down and die if they were hunted or they would get banned from the server

[somber nebula]

Can confirm, I was the Alioramus that watched the Shantungosaurus get banned after headbutting a Zhuchengtyrannus

[warped peak]

Honestly I still like the comparison. The issue is that people think that horses are weak

[white matrix]

I guess I can give up a career in paleontology knowing that
A.my country is known for paleo research whatsoever
B.I just ain't build for math

[tough parcel]

Paleo-kids when I show them the average hadrosaur (It's not Shantungosaurus)

[light osprey]

It’s the slightly smaller Edmontosaurus

[sullen cairn]

edmontosaurus is a horse if horses lived with 375kg lions

or you're regalis in which case you live with twink albertosaurus

[somber nebula]

The most hadrosaur species were still comparable in size, or larger, than most carnivores in their environments, I was just using the most extreme example.

Edmontosaurus rivaled Tyrannosaurus in size, Gryposaurus rivaled Daspletosaurus in size, Brachylophosaurus was larger than Lythronax, etc. Hadrosaurs in general seemed to trend towards the sizes of their environments largest predators, with only a handful of examples of inordinately small hadrosaurs in comparison to their predators.

[tough parcel]

Ok but...how many of those are average sized and how many are the largest known?

[warped peak]

Thankfully their mammalian cunning means the average horse can easily throttle checks notes uh maybe Dilo? Seems a bit big especially for the average horse lmao

[sullen cairn]

i should scale the wahweap cf. brachylophosaurus maxilla sometime (thanks scalebars)

[tough parcel]

You will die

[light osprey]

The rivalry of all time

No horridus 😢

[sullen cairn]

because its vaguely topical enjoy the fruits of my suffering last night

[somber nebula]

I think the average size of Hadrosaurids was around 30 feet in length, and that's about as big as Gryposaurus and Brachylophosaurus.

[somber nebula]

This is beautiful

[light osprey]

They big I guess. If we put their disparity of size into perspective with equivalent extant predator\prey relationships it would appear a lot less impressive

[somber nebula]

Yeah, it isn't anything too surprising, but I was just giving examples of how most hadrosaurs weren't, y'know, helpless against most predators they shared their environments with.

[white matrix]

What are the diffrent known species of tyrannosaurus?

[sullen cairn]

mr. falcone sends his regards

[somber nebula]

Tyrannosaurus rex and Tyrannosaurus mcraeensis

[white matrix]

What distinguishes both as a diffrent species? (BTW is t-rex considered a species now and his other genus mate isn't?)

[sullen cairn]

i will say though with hadrosaurs that lambeosaurines in northern laramidia aren't all too great at getting much larger than tyrannosaurs at all you only really see it happen with parasaurolophus and maybe hypacrosaurus and even then both of those don't get much over 4000kg

[light osprey]

Fodder….

[somber nebula]

T. mcraeensis had a lighter-built skull, and lived a couple million years before T. rex. Those are the main distinguishing features I remember, there's more though

[sullen cairn]

however we stan giant brachylophosaurus femur

[white matrix]

Aight thx

[somber nebula]

True, most stayed in 2-3 ton range from what I've read.

[somber nebula]

Brachylophosaurus my beloved <3

[sullen cairn]

oh sweet elvis doesn't have the one element i actually want great

[west coral]

not that big actually

[compact leaf]

idk if it’s just too obvious but people who want an herbivore fully capable of decking predators sleep on the big sauropods

[west coral]

Certain big sauropods are not slept, but hibernated on

Mamenchisaurs, Turiasaurs, and other large basal sauropods are heavily slept on

[light osprey]

I hear Early Cretaceous I sleep except for when ice is involved

Speaking of the Sauropods, everyone has always been in search of the great high latitude Sauropod, Wouldnt the James Ross Island stuff kind of be a really obvious answer

[topaz shell]

Is this creature possible mr peoples (I will probably change its size)

[flat pond]

Really liking the Lambeo TLC here.

[outer tusk]

loving it

[flat pond]

I just hope we get more accurate calls for it too.

[crude latch]

Except for the hooves 🤮

[flat pond]

What do you mean the hooves?

[topaz shell]

Wdym

[crude latch]

Arent hadrosaur feet like that….wrong?

[crude latch]

Hmmmmmm

Mb then 🤷‍♂️

[light osprey]

It looks fine. Nobody really has a clear idea anyway

[flat pond]

No, there is evidence that hadrosaurs had hooved front feet

[topaz shell]

I did just show a pic

[flat pond]

I was typing as you sent the pic

[topaz shell]

O

[flat pond]

Hopefully they do Bars the same way with the hooves

[bright veldt]

If they just try and copy PhP's Bars it'll be fine

[compact leaf]

it proves sauropods in those conditions are possible but we can’t name the james ross sauropod ‘boreatitan’ so the search continues

[flat pond]

True, PhP Bars is a great design

[topaz shell]

Even tho we don’t have a head Edmonto is a great reference for bars (I think)

[light osprey]

The way to make Gondwanan polar Dinosaurs cool; Austrotitan Antarcticus

[sullen cairn]

bars is a saurolophine of saurolophine affinities

[compact leaf]

lump it

[light osprey]

One might say…. a Saurolophus

[bright veldt]

the last actual study lines it up more with shant so

[flat pond]

Wonder how they are going to do Struthio

[light osprey]

Give it tender love and care of course

[sullen cairn]

has bars had anything since tlatolophus phylogeny

[light osprey]

Prehistoric Planet made it an Edmontosaurini does that count

[sullen cairn]

i don't keep up with glupshitto hadrosaur placement

[flat pond]

Of course, but what would they use as inspiration for the new design? I know they will use large birds like ostriches or emus as inspiration but what do you guys think they might use

[light osprey]

Erm guys the new fragmentasaurus randomchinesensis just got moved in a new phylogeny

This Hadrosaur of ambiguous relationships is now tentatively placed within a wacky family for now

[flat pond]

What other species might we get TLCs for?

Besides the ones they have confirmed already to be getting one.

[sullen cairn]

i'm still undecided if malefica or fylax is more forgettable

malefica has a kind of cool name but fylax sounds like a crappy startup web browser which is somewhat memorable

[light osprey]

Malefica is a poopy name, Fylax wins

[orchid flume]

I’m not a regular here but I’m starting my training at a museum that I’m going to be doing a study project at for my school and I feel like this is a good step for me and idk where else to be excited about it :)

[bright veldt]

Bars and Struthi are really the only major ones left that aren't in need of outright redesigns.

[compact leaf]

styracosaurus is getting a facelift too right? it needs some tweaking

[flat pond]

Hm, I thought there was more that was getting some TLC like Styraco

[sullen cairn]

malefica also looses points because aquilarhinus is from the same formation but does the basal hadrosaurid thing better and with actual material worth acknowledging

[light osprey]

Hadrosauromorphs are superior though

[compact leaf]

you could replace hadrosaur with sauropod here and it would be exactly the same, someone needs to sit down and sift through basically everything and then make a new matrix that’s actually dedicated to being a matrix

I guarantee everything will fall apart if that happens

[flat pond]

Plus I would be surprised if they didn’t try to give Spino a TLC, even though it’s still pretty alright in terms of accuracy despite lacking the tall tail spines for the default species.

[sullen cairn]

they should give pycno the tlc of making the hornless sub nevesi

[flat pond]

That I can definitely agree with

[bright veldt]

Yeah I give pycno a lot of crap but it really doesn't need too much to be fixed. Make the stam sub standard and remodel one of the carno subs. Done.

[flat pond]

And making the other species have head ornamenting of different abelisaurs

[sullen cairn]

delcourt 2018 making pycnonemosaurus a hornless carnotaurus and its consequences...

ah yes inferred osteological skull morphology referenced from the nonexistent cranial material

[flat pond]

Now I’m curious how they would do a Spino TLC all things considered

[light osprey]

I feel like there must be some equivalently large, obscure and far more complete Abelisaur somewhere out there

[elfin pulsar]

No

[sullen cairn]

ceratosaur mfs really see a composite consisting of a handful of verts most of a leg and cranial fragments and think its the most amazing incredibly complete thing in the world

[flat pond]

That’s life for ya

[light osprey]

So many diagnostic vertebrae. You can tell it’s a distinct taxon by the way that it is

[sullen cairn]

is this implying 9m turkana abelisaur

[light osprey]

I was thinking 8 metre Ekrixinatosaurus

[sullen cairn]

thats literally like the most poorly described of the not complete ass abelisaurs

[light osprey]

Whoopsies I thought it had a head

[somber nebula]

I was really hyped for the pycno when the game was still in development, now I think it's probably one of the biggest let downs in the game. it's fine and all, but it has re-used animations and a really mediocre and unaccurate model, honestly I'd prefer if they just didn't have a Carnotaurus subspecies at all so it could be something actually unique and original in a dinosaur game, a non-Carnotaurus abelisaurid.

[somber nebula]

I does

[flat pond]

Now I’m curious about what other species they might add after the entire roster has been added considering that I think I remember them stating they plan on adding more dinosaurs to the game.

[bright veldt]

Eh the carno sub isn't the issue. I even encouraged it. The issue is that they kinda saw that I guess and went "Let's just make its whole identity Carnotaurus 2"

[sullen cairn]

we don't talk about ekrix's skull after the incident

[flat pond]

I would have loved to have seen the default that had an accurate description of the head, the Carno based head, and a Rajasaurus based head.

[somber nebula]

The whole "Carnotaurus 2" thing is probably my biggest issue tbh, Carnotaurus was very different from most of Abelisauridae and it creates a sort of false idea of what most Abelisaurids were. Don't get me wrong, Carnotaurus is awesome, and its a very interesting creature, but a lot of Abelisaurids weren't leggy speed machines like Carnotaurus.

[bright veldt]

That's mostly an old world vs new world abelisaur thing tmk. Not quite carno being unique.

[sullen cairn]

luckily for us anything between skorpiovenator and carnotaurus/aucasaurus including pycno is incomprehensibly awful material for a full life reconstruction so there isn't a whole lot to work with

[flat pond]

Yeah new world abeilsaurs were very leggy bois

[somber nebula]

Very true

[sullen cairn]

well viavenator's pretty decent but the thing barely has legs preserved

[light osprey]

Wow he’s ugly. I change my mind I’ll take Carnotaurus without the horns

[sullen cairn]

he is beautiful just the way he is you sicko

[light osprey]

The inferior Abelisaur

[somber nebula]

Yep, what I meant was Carnotaurus was definately the leggiest of the leggy bois, only other species of Furileusaurian Abelisaurid with even half-decent material is Aucasaurus, who was definately very leggy, but didn't have the horns

[light osprey]

“New World Abelisaurs” I love it

[sullen cairn]

too bad because everything's way too unstable for you to seperate brachyrostrans and majungasaurines on the basis of geography

[light osprey]

But I wanna

[sullen cairn]

dahalokely and rahiolisaurus are in bed with brachyrostra way too often for that to happen anytime soon

[light osprey]

Too excellent taxa

[sullen cairn]

arcovenator also likes be a dumbass and there's that weird bahariya maybe brachyrostran too

[somber nebula]

It's a fun concept, like Vultures, except they're actually cladistically related to each other.

[sullen cairn]

and that one time furileusaurian genusaurus happened

and that potential ouled abdoun brachyrostran

[outer tusk]

idk if I should ask this but if Disney Carnotaurus was real like idk would it work like as it's own genus if it had more accurate proportion to carnotaurus?

[sullen cairn]

and abelisaurus being a majungasaurine (in which case abelisaurinae would actually take priority) somtimes

[light osprey]

We found them on a continent therefore they are related to each other….

[sullen cairn]

bro thinks hes longrich

[light osprey]

On my way to Morocco

[somber nebula]

Love how they named the clade after a species with only a partial skull

[sullen cairn]

tbf a partial skull is incredible material by abelisaurid standards

[light osprey]

My oh my look at all these glubshittos I can name

[somber nebula]

True

[flat pond]

There’s quite a few like that such as Spinosaurs, though Spino is getting more material attached to it.

[sullen cairn]

i mean thats not really a good thing but watcha gonna do

ceratosauria is certainly one of the clades of all time

[light osprey]

Waiting for a Noasaurus paratype

[stiff osprey]

It could work as a distinct Carnotaurus species if you removed the visible elbows and shrank it to "only" 11m

[somber nebula]

Also, off-topic but what's the current consensus on the placement of Megaraptora? Naish and Cau's 2022 study put it as sort of deep into Tyrannosauroidea, but in that same year Rolando et al. put it as another offshoot of Coelurosauria, idk which one is more accepted

Or is there just no current consensus, because it's Megaraptora

[stiff osprey]

No consensus, even a position within coelurosaurs is dubious

[outer tusk]

that's cool af, btw Random if I ask any ETA or just in general will you post a new skeeltal any time soon ?

[light osprey]

Late surviving Carnosauria real…

[outer tusk]

THE LAST STEGOSAUR

[stiff osprey]

I have two skeletals waiting to be released when a JFD model is completed, but I don't know when that'll be

And no, not saying which ones

[light osprey]

The Last

[outer tusk]

damn well on a serious note I can;t wait for your hard work to be showcase yet again as I repsect you and your work as a person

[sullen cairn]

its amazing the things you can get away with saying when the server isn't koi

[outer tusk]

what is "KOI"?

[sullen cairn]

kopper or inches

[stiff osprey]

the big carp must never find out i support allosauroid megaraptorans

because i don't, i was just saying it to be unbiased

[light osprey]

Kurupi Our Idol

[somber nebula]

Both seem pretty dubious now that I look at them, the Tyrannosauroidea study puts Siats as a member of Megaraptora, which is a neat thought, that there were once megaraptors in North America but were driven down south by competition from newer clades, but there's something about *Siats *of all things being a Tyrannosauroid that just feels odd

That being said, I prefer them over the Allosauroid or Neovenatorid theories, more signs point to the newer to studies

[outer tusk]

true men support dromaeosaurid megapratorans!!!

[somber nebula]

Holy crap it's the Ulughbegsaurus

[sullen cairn]

luckily for you siats is also a dumbass unstable shitter

[light osprey]

The feathered beast stalks the mountains of Argentina….

[stiff osprey]

Any study that puts Siats or Chilantaisaurus in Megaraptora I am automatically skeptical of because what the hell is a 11m megaraptoran doing in the cenomanian or whatever

[outer tusk]

would this reconstruction be consdiered a "carcharodontosaurid"?

[light osprey]

Without a doubt

[sullen cairn]

chilantaisaurus the tyrannosauroid reaper of the last allosauroids

[stiff osprey]

look at the size of that skull vs the cervical vertebrae 😭 bro was dragging its chin everywhere

[light osprey]

We’re going back in time to make sure Siats and Chilantaisaurus never preserve

[sullen cairn]

chilantaisaurus is merely a red herring as we discretely test how far back we can push iren dabasu before people realize there's a large derived tyrannosaurid there

[stiff osprey]

...is there?

[light osprey]

The last

[stiff osprey]

Gigantoraptor is cursed enough on its own we don't need to add anything to iren dabasu

[sullen cairn]

its a lil baby man but carr compares it favorably to raptorex and tyrannosaurus and suggests it could be a tyrannosaurine

there's also supposedly large tyrannosaurid femora there but i haven't ever seen any actual measurements

[outer tusk]

I grew up with megaraptor being sort of a giant dromaeosaur and then like pretty much allosaurus but cretaceous so idk but a lot of older deciption of this animal holds a speical place in my heart

[light osprey]

Secondarily acquired pennaceous feathers…. It’s real….

[outer tusk]

when is spinosaurid chilantaisaurus

[stiff osprey]

miles cooler than coelurosaur chilantaisaurus

[sullen cairn]

while some may consider this questionable merit for the presence of a large tyrannosaurid i don't care

[light osprey]

Montanaspinus fully realized

[outer tusk]

wait how come chilantai or siats haven't be considered a spinosaurid?

[light osprey]

What big paleo is hiding from us

[sullen cairn]

that tyrannosaurus ate gigantoraptor

[outer tusk]

Btw I was doing this piece of 2 Megalodons eating a Livyatan and I was wondering what I should change about it

( The piece on the bottom. )

[compact leaf]

oh they're hiding more than that

[outer tusk]

22t spinosaurus might make a return!1!1!1!!11

[light osprey]

The Hell Creek Centrosaur….

[compact leaf]

the mythical hell creek lambeosaurine

[trim lark]

Hola

[compact leaf]

nima's mythical 28m abydosaurus

[light osprey]

The Unicorn of Palaeontology

[sullen cairn]

rajasaurus being larger than magnapaulia

[trim lark]

Alguien w able español

[outer tusk]

A theropod larger than T-rex

[sullen cairn]

if i accept 1.5m brachylophosaurus femur does that make it morally permissible for me to consider random isolated bonebed elements different individuals to gut the average size

[light osprey]

The lords work some might say

[marsh tapir]

¡Hola! Para conversaciones en español, utilice el chat #español ¡Gracias!

[compact leaf]

I just want the chance to dismantle sauropoda with my bare hands and put it all together again

I will go irreparably insane in the process, but we will have a nice concrete sauropod phylogeny

[light osprey]

The hardest choices require the strongest wills

[outer tusk]

Is it weird to call some prehistoric ankmals by their synonym name or outdated names

[sullen cairn]

i know how to make a concrete sauropod phylogeny just remove 80% of the taxa

[compact leaf]

get rid of titanosaurs and somphospondyls you're already making progress

I feel like at least half of somphospondyli does not belong there, and there's probably a few non-titanosaurs lurking in titanosauria too but they're so fragmentary or haven't been examined in so long that who knows

[light osprey]

fix Sauropod phylogeny
gets rid of all the Sauropods

[somber nebula]

“Concrete Sauropod Phylogeny” big paleo knows where you live, and your days are numbered

[somber nebula]

Depends tbh, I call Irritator “Angaturama” because it sounds serious, but calling Allosaurus “Labrosaurus” would probably condemn you to hell, so it’s a very context-sensitive thing

[outer tusk]

Manospondylus

[stiff osprey]

Call Allosaurus Antrodemus, it sounds like a wizard

[pastel tartan]

Anyone have a accurate dacentrurus and stegosaurus skeletal?

[velvet burrow]

Plot twist: Sauropoda doesn't exist and it's all convergent evolution from about every other taxa

[bitter quest]

Anyone know what the up to date information on what Ostsafrikasaurus fall under so far? A ceratosaurid or spinosaurid

[sullen cairn]

usually considered ceratosaurid

[bitter quest]

Yeah I was confused since I've seen both depictions of both

[light osprey]

Omg a tree

[serene birch]

someone slide torvosaurus paleo art
size estimates

[scenic flame]

I can get ye a chart showing the size of about a dozen torvo specimens in an hout when I get home from college

[serene birch]

Yes 🙏🏽

[ancient knoll]

Self insert; hi

[ancient knoll]

Please note, a very large majority of specimens are fragmentary, ichnotaxa or isolated teeth. Most of the specimens are also unlikely to belong to torvosaurus itself.

Torvosaurus tanneri
BYUVP 2002 - 10.87m, 4452kg
BYUVP 5005 - 7.6m, 1522kg (immature)
BYUVP 5241 - 8.5m, 2129kg
BYUVP 5280 - 8.7m, 2283kg
FMNH PR 360 - 8.5m, 2129kg
"Elvis" - 10m, 3467kg (likely wrong)
CEUM coll. - 10.7m, 4247kg

Torvosaurus "rex" (=T. tanneri)
TATE 1003 - 8.6m, 2205kg
CPS 1002, 1001, TATE coll. - 11.47m, 5231kg

Torvosaurus gurneyi
ML 1100 - 9.6m, 3067kg
ML 430 - 9.6m, 3067kg
ML 632 - 11.13m, 4779kg
MUJA-1913 - 10.7m, 4247kg
MG coll. - 11.47m, 5231kg
Argüero specimen - 9.5m, 2972kg
Oles specimen - 11.46m, 5217kg
Tazones specimen/MUJA-1889 - 7.33m, 1365kg
French caudal - 10.7m 4247kg
WMNM P 27685, 27686 - 9.7m, 3164kg

Megalosaurus phillipsi (=T. phillipsi)
OUM J29886 - 8.67m, 2259kg
OUM J13586 - 10m, 3467kg

cf. Torvosaurus - 10.6m, 4129kg

Torvosaurus "ingens"
54mm tooth - 11.4m, 5136kg
MB R 3627 - 11m, 4614kg

161GR1.1 - 11.46m, 5217kg

[serene birch]

So Torvosaurus gurneyi could grow to 11.5 meters and weigh around 5.2 tons at max

[ancient knoll]

yep yep

[serene birch]

My Dino for a reason Jurassic hits better then Cretaceous

[ancient knoll]

same as tanneri; theyre virtually the same size
Adding all the known specimens together, it seems gurneyi couldve also been bigger on average

[serene birch]

I heard that gurneyi was the larger and more bulky variant of the 2

[ancient knoll]

nothing to suggest bulkier
and the biggest specimens are around the same size for both

[serene birch]

Sure could you mabey give me some tarbosaurus size estimat info aswell unless you don’t want that’s fine for me(Ty for helping me out)

[ancient knoll]

tarbo is currently estimated at 10.9m and 5.4t

[serene birch]

Dang it heavier then torvo 🗿

[ancient knoll]

by less than 200kg
That's like 1 meal/dump lol

[light osprey]

Tarbosaurus needs to take a sh*t

[heady thunder]

Dw, Ill scale tarbo of a pepsi bottle and it will be bigger then argent

[hybrid saddle]

So true

[somber tartan]

What are the largest size estimates for inostrancevia? (Height, length, weight)

[warped peak]

Do you have any evidence supporting 200kg Tarbo craps?

[ancient knoll]

oh no theyre onto me

[stiff osprey]

I mean it is believed T.rex could eat 400-500 kg in a single meal

So while it wouldn't be normal a Tarbosaurus that had some gastrointestinal illness probably could take a 200kg shet

[junior dawn]

been there done that

[light osprey]

#relatable

[serene birch]

nah but personally tho torvo vs tarbo would have been an awesome fight

[bright veldt]

So yknow how Perucetus was downsized basically instantly? Here’s a proper paper that confirms it. https://peerj.com/articles/16978/

[alpine island]

Does anyone have a good skeletal/reconstruction of Plateosaurus

[somber nebula]

Had no idea it was downsized. Not surprised it was downsized, since it has such fragmentary material, you can't really say for certain that something was the biggest animal ever from some vertebra.

[bright veldt]

Perucetus is still the largest extinct whale, but it’s not even in the top 5 in terms of absolute size tmk.

[sullen cairn]

holocene sweep

[alpine island]

All I have is this, this valid?

[bright veldt]

Yeah this one still holds up tmk

[somber nebula]

Holocene stays winning 💪 😔 💀

[elfin pulsar]

Yo how’s the new lambeo tlc?

I imagine that’s been asked already but I haven’t seen the replies myself

[bright veldt]

The feet are iffy tmk but aside from that it’s basically perfect.

[elfin pulsar]

Awesome

[somber nebula]

Are the forelimb hooves like, 100% confirmed to have existed in Hadrosaurs, or is it still up in the air.

[bright veldt]

Hadrosaurs had hooves. It’s just more debated on how they would’ve looked.

It’s considered unlikely that all hadrosaurs had the same arrangement going on.

[serene birch]

does anyone have a skeleton construction of torvosaurus gurneyi

[serene birch]

ty blud

[serene birch]

this is from 2014 is it still accurate?

[bright veldt]

Torvosaurus has changed a fair bit since then so I wouldn’t.

[serene birch]

yh

you got some uptodate scans?

[bright veldt]

This is better. Even if it’s Tanneri the differences between the two is minimal either way so it works as a reference.

[serene birch]

its such a sick dino man its like a combination of a trex and a allosaurus

[tranquil quartz]

I mean wouldn’t that just be Saurophaganax

[serene birch]

sauro is just like a bigger allo

[tranquil quartz]

I am aware yes

But if you took the size of a Tyrannosaurus and then just mixed it with Allosaurus you’d probably get something similar too Sauro

[serene birch]

torvo actually is diffrent looks like a hybrid between a rex and a allo

[tranquil quartz]

I don’t see the similarities with Rex

[stiff osprey]

tiny arms, lack of lacrimal crest, long snout with that pinch in the middle

[ocean drum]

The size of animals is determined by mass not length and height

[tranquil quartz]

I am aware

[ocean drum]

so more like length and height of rex

[tranquil quartz]

I meant gave it Rex’s mass

[ocean drum]

bro sauro does NOT weight as much as rex

[bright veldt]

Eh it’s kinda close actually depending on who you ask

Average rex at least

[frosty cedar]

Prehistoric Planet in general has great designs. Not only they are beautiful, but they are also subjectively accurate, as they should be since it's a documentary. Their looks from the show are definitive versions for me.

[open compass]

PK spino looks awesome it's the best spino in my opinion

[zinc solstice]

Are fish a real group or just a confusing one?

[bright veldt]

In the taxonomic sense, no.

[zinc solstice]

I mean basal vertebrates/fish look identical to the first chordates In the fossil record that it's hard to tell the difference

[bright veldt]

“Fish” is more of a description than an actual group, because by taxonomic logic, basically ALL vertebrates are fish, so it kinda loses its meaning when everything is a fish.

[zinc solstice]

True but also what is the difference between the basal fish and the non fish chordates really there almost is little to no difference other than having eyes and a backbone

[warped peak]

see these are the important questions

[flat pond]

On the topic of marine life, what is an aquatic/semi-aquatic species that everyone feels should come to PoT? These are my choices, though I feel some of them could overlap with others in similar niches.

[somber nebula]

Globidens would be really interesting, we've yet to have a proper shellfish specialist in the game and it'd be neat to see how they play. (probably like an aquatic herbivore but its still neat)

[flat pond]

Yeah, I’d love to see a shellfish specialist to be around, especially since we are getting ammonites in the game now.

[harsh tiger]

Dinosaurs are cool

[last iron]

@elfin pulsar https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/path-of-titans/images/e/e9/Styraco_Skin_(9).jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/250?cb=20210824033105
It doesn’t look too bad to me accuracy wise other than what you mentioned about it being too fat

Above render by Max Bellomio

[elfin pulsar]

Big head, fat, poor textures, short hornl stubby legs

Its also the closest thing to a PoT mascot and an original dino with one of the oldest models, I think its very deserving

[last iron]

The head overall IMO needs major improvement now that I compare the two actually yeah

[elfin pulsar]

And again it doesn’t communicate its role at all

Sty is a fast offensive herbi, look at that accurate one it feels like it would be that. The one in game is so fat and stubby it doesn’t communicate that niche

[last iron]

I feel that most PoT Dino’s suffer from them looking like they came outta a McDonald’s, especially allo, I really want allo to become much thinner and lankier

[scenic flame]

both of these are inaccurate, Sergi made some more up to date skeletal of styraco

more than anything it needs better textures

[heady thunder]

Sty definitely deserves a tlc more then any new release, Kai being the exception.
Its still not that bad, just needs some tweaks.

Tho bars and struthi are way worse then it.

But that is kai.

[light osprey]

I still adamantly think it’s still a pretty model. Styracosaurus that is

[heady thunder]

Its charming.

[nocturne merlin]

cough cough thalla cough cough

[scenic flame]

the face really needs a tlc, it's extremely smooth and not nearly as good as more recent models

[heady thunder]

Thats a more textures problem imo

[scenic flame]

the slug wrinkles on the body don't help it either

[light osprey]

Pachyrhinosaurus when

[heady thunder]

Pls, not another ceratopsian

[scenic flame]

it's an accuracy one too, since the proportions are also wrong

[nocturne merlin]

is alb off too? it seems to potato like

[scenic flame]

Alb is far far better

it's scales are alot more defined and it has better anatomy

[heady thunder]

No idea how they went from this alb to kai

[flat pond]

Daspleto I feel needs a bit of a texture update along with a few things.

[flat pond]

I agree, Alberta is definitely the best looking ceratopsian out of all of them.

[last iron]

Alb also has the nice shuffle run

[heady thunder]

Nuh uh, eo also shuffle runs, which sucks

The animation is decent, but gallop was fun.

[iron halo]

Nuh uh gallop looked goofy af

[tranquil quartz]

It did

[wispy summit]

Eo having all 4 of its limbs in the air at the same time will never look right

[nocturne merlin]

a rhino type run coulda been cool

https://tenor.com/view/running-rhino-dean-schneider-vlog-chasing-rhinos-wildlife-rhinoceros-gif-17822787

[heady thunder]

Thats kinda like stys run, but the legs are smaller

Also damn rhinos can gallop, I thought they couldnt.

[compact leaf]

they can hit like 25-30 mph too, they haul it when they need to

[last iron]

Which they typically don’t so you don’t see it often lol

[heady thunder]

Can hippos gallop too? Or they just waddle

[compact leaf]

hippos can’t gallop they just shuffle extremely fast

[heady thunder]

Or maybe we have yet to see a motivated hippo 👀

[nocturne merlin]

yes, its pretty good

[sudden wind]

I wonder how bad at stress resistance was the nasal horn.

[neat drum]

Hippos gallop in water, sorta, its how they build up speed

Therefore ano should be able to gallop across the riverbeds

[primal ice]

Ok question is alamotyrannus a valid dinosaur Because just learned it and never heard of it

[iron halo]

Most likely not afaik

[primal ice]

O well I've never heard of it

So that explains it

[sullen cairn]

the material previously referred to as "alamotyrannus" could be a valid taxon but it hasn't ever been formally described as such

[primal ice]

We'll I just learned it all I know it lived in New Mexico in 70 million years ago and I thought that was mcraensis or did mcraensis live in hell creek

[stray wren]

Sty is a bit, weird proportionally in game. It falls into the deinonychus problem of being too scrunched up

[iron halo]

I think “alamotyrannus” came before mcraensis

[sullen cairn]

mcraeensis is from hall lake in southern new mexico
all of the "alamotyrannus" stuff is farther north in kirtland/ojo alamo (but still in new mexico)

and imo a least the general perception of alamotyrannus is prolly two separate taxa from two distinct stratigraphic horizons

[primal ice]

So then it's possible it valid

[sullen cairn]

"alamotyrannus" can't really ever be valid until/if its described and that's assuming it gets described as "alamotyrannus" and not another name
but yeah some of the "alamotyrannus" material is prolly a distinct taxon

[primal ice]

Ok so not a valid dinosaur

[sullen cairn]

likely a distinct animal, but the name isn't formal/valid

[primal ice]

So mcraensis is from New Mexico and Alamo is from. New Mexico also so technically mcraensis is a Alamo

[sullen cairn]

no

"alamotyrannus" refers to assorted tyrannosaurid material from kirtland/ojo alamo
mcraeensis is a single specimen from hall lake

[primal ice]

well I'm very confused it's New for me

Ok um valid not valid tell any

[stiff osprey]

just ignore Alamotyrannus until it gets officially described

which it probably never will because if a paper spends that long in press it probably wasn't a good paper

[copper flame]

https://tenor.com/view/youtube-twitch-meme-chair-office-gif-19928140

[sullen cairn]

this is "alamotyrannus"

[copper flame]

alamotyrannus huh?

[sullen cairn]

mcraeensis is the thing described here https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-47011-0

[copper flame]

I thought it would be T. "brinkmani"?

[sullen cairn]

the naashoibito material is god knows what
but the de-na-zin "alamotyrannus" material hasn't been said to be particularly similar to tyrannosaurus

[primal ice]

So it could be real just not a tyrannosaurid

[sullen cairn]

alamotyrannus is a tyrannosaurid no matter how you slice it

[copper flame]

so it could still be considered alamotyrannus brinkmani not tyrannosaurus brinkmani

[primal ice]

Ok all I want I'd it's valid or not valid

[copper flame]

btw what does the material even consist of???

I heard it hasnt even been discribed yet lol

[sullen cairn]

The 2013 paper that originally cites an "Alamotyrannus" mentioned it consisted of "many isolated but diagnostic tyrannosaurid skeletal fossil elements from the [Maastrichtian] Naashoibito Member of the Ojo Alamo Formation". ACM 7975 (a partial dentary) was also mentioned in that same paper as the "Ojo Alamo Tyrannosaur", so also Alamotyrannus.

ACM 7975 is kinda the informal face of Alamotyrannus at least in the online sphere on account of being the only specimen actually attributed to "Alamotyrannus" by name.

However, ACM 7975 has since been reassigned to the earlier Campanian De-Na-Zin member rather than the Naashoibito member, and a 2018 abstract mentions it as an in-prep distinct taxon similar in gorss morphology to Teratophoneus and Lythronax. It also mentions "two isolated dentaries and several axial and appendicular skeletal elements, including isolated teeth" from De-Na-Zin. Considering that its late Campanian and hasn't really been favorably compared to Tyrannosaurus, its probably something distinct from Tyrannosaurus.

This leaves the other "many isolated but diagnostic tyrannosaurid skeletal fossil elements" (that are not ACM 7975) of Naashoibito from the 2013 paper very ambiguous because nobody knows which specimens they refer to. Assuming these elements are still from Naashoibito (and haven't been moved to De-Na-Zin like ACM 7975), they probably represent a separate taxon altogether from ACM 7975.

Tyrannosaurid elements from Naashoibito have been compared favorably to Tyrannosaurus in the past and are also very large, so there's a good chance the Naashoibito material (which presumably at least some of the "fossil elements" under "Alamotyrannus" has affinities with Tyrannosaurus.

[copper flame]

https://tenor.com/view/look-up-scared-willem-dafoe-gif-17761333

[primal ice]

So much text

[copper flame]

gimme a sec imma read all of this

[sullen cairn]

Also worth noting there's a supposed novel ziphodont tyrannosaur from Naashoibito (known purely from teeth/teeth marks) with dentition unlike Tyrannosaurus that may or may not just be juvenile Tyrannosaurus teeth/tooth marks

[copper flame]

so this was probably a medium sized Eutyrannosaurid?

[sullen cairn]

ACM 7975?

[copper flame]

yeah?

[sullen cairn]

iirc i scaled it to like 10m based off lythronax but its a partial dentary so any estimate is pretty tentative

[copper flame]

btw alamotyrannus isnt from the ojo alamo formation?

[sullen cairn]

Naashoibito is either kirtland formation or ojo alamo formation
De-Na-Zin is definitively kirtland

[copper flame]

so its alamo is inbetween them?

[sullen cairn]

some of the "Alamotyrannus" material is from De-Na-Zin (kirtland), some of it might be from Naashoibito (either kirtland or ojo alamo) (but if this is the case "Alamotyrannus" probably refers to material spread across two different taxa)

[copper flame]

so the alamotyrannus material might be two diffrent dinosaurs?

[sullen cairn]

potentially

its hard to say because the only specimen we know with reasonable certainty falls under "Alamotyrannus" is acm 7975

this is also cool and worth heeding because the whole thing is a bit of a mess

[copper flame]

and T. vannus is just a sub adult sp rex?

[sullen cairn]

T. vannus is some Tyrannosaurus-like thing if not Tyrannosaurus sp. proper
iirc the mcraeensis description refers to it (well the Javelina material at least) as cf. Tyrannosaurus

[lavish frigate]

Mcraeensis fans when I say adult nanotyrannus (they have been destroyed with facts and genus)

[copper flame]

btw are their multiple "alamotyrannus" specimens?

[sullen cairn]

yes, but the only one we know the catalogue of is acm 7975

[copper flame]

and the other one is unnamed?

[sullen cairn]

they're almost certainly catalogued, but the names weren't given

but there are elements from naashoibito people speculate belong to "Alamotyrannus" but the only specimen that can be associated with alamotyrannus for certain is acm 7975

[copper flame]

how big would "alamotyrannus" get???

[sullen cairn]

acm 7975 is kinda crap to scale cause partial dentary but last i tried i got ~10m

afaik the largest naashoibito material is a 1m scapulocoracoid

[copper flame]

other than the fact that tyrannosaurus would be a effective sauropod hunter
would alamosaurus actually be a prey item for tyrannosaurus?

[sullen cairn]

assuming it's not too much larger i don't see why not

[wintry path]

is alamosaurus a sauropod or am i thikning of something else

[sullen cairn]

it is

[copper flame]

https://tenor.com/view/ayo-bro-sonic-the-hedgehog-sega-soinc-old-sonic-mania-gif-25874592

[wintry path]

https://tenor.com/view/alvin-chipmunks-smile-cute-gif-12907710

[copper flame]

can you scale the willow creek formation fauna rq @sullen cairn

[sullen cairn]

is there anything besides this i don't wanna check

why is montanoceratops late maas

[copper flame]

north horn formation than?

[sullen cairn]

imagine hell creek chart but its only torosaurus and tyrannosaurus and theres an alamosaurus there too

[wintry path]

montano looks a little...

[copper flame]

oh....

livingston.............????

[wintry path]

you #paleontology commoners make me jealous

[copper flame]

bone wars

[wintry path]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/446011203244916747/1198459720403521597/87CBF46E-2217-477B-AEDF-06CB6BCB54C1.gif

[sullen cairn]

whats even in livingston

[copper flame]

livingston formation

[wintry path]

livingston fossils

[crude latch]

Man I wish I was S m a r t

[wintry path]

REAL LIKE I WANNA JOIN THESE COONVOS

[crude latch]

Fr, but I feel like a dumbass Everytime I say smth here with the anxiety building up thinking sm1s gonna go..”Uh no….are you dumb?”

[wintry path]

i feel dumb when i say something and someone responds with 3 words ive never seen before

[light osprey]

The Edmontonian-Lancian separation is a myth

[sullen cairn]

well someone had to bring it up

[light osprey]

Teehee

[copper flame]

yeah......

[sullen cairn]

i secretely want eotriceratops to be thrown into triceratops so i can justify plopping rex in horseshoe

[light osprey]

Albertosaurus lancensis….

[crude latch]

Exactly 😭, and I google it up so I’m not dumb when I respond but that makes me feel even more dumb

[sullen cairn]

but you didn't here that from me

[light osprey]

The preservation biases…. They pervade it all….

[copper flame]

LMAO

[sullen cairn]

if it makes yall feel any better this alamotyrannus stuff out of context is lost on just about anyone but like four people in one single discord channel

mighty #coelurosauria....

[light osprey]

The Edmontonian taxa simply moved to the Northwest Territories

[sullen cairn]

pachyrhinosaurus summitcreekensis trust

[copper flame]

albertosaurus brinkmani

[wintry path]

@crude latch watching chat rn feeling like im watching my parents talk about taxesor something

[light osprey]

Hypacrosaurus arcticus…. The last Lambeosaur…

[copper flame]

rhinorex is such a cool name for such a obcure dinosaur lol

and it has skin impressions!

[wintry path]

saltriosaurus is cooler..

[copper flame]

wow a sauropod with armor..... so orginal

[wintry path]

ever heard of scipionyx tho

[wintry path]

saltriosaurus is a therapod, saltasaurus is a sauropod

[copper flame]

you mean saltriovenator????

thats just a smaller ceratosaur(?)

[copper flame]

dubious lmao

[wintry path]

only now realising i just messed it up and now i feel like never talking again

[wintry path]

still a cool name 😭😭😭

also saltrio looks cool so hes better

[copper flame]

bro does NOT know about uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh uuuhmmmmmmm
vulcanodon

futalognkosaurus

[wintry path]

bro hes so ugly

[wintry path]

I know about that one because of roblox dinosaur simulator 😃

[crude latch]

Oh ye Bcs the first image on google is the most accurate thing ever

[wintry path]

chiliantrosaurus

[copper flame]

my favorite sauropod because of its roar
my favorite dinosaur is murusraptor

[copper flame]

CHILANTAISAURUS??????????

[wintry path]

chiliantaisaurus*

[stiff osprey]

why would you like murusraptor it steals everyone's walls

[wintry path]

minor spelling mistake (im getting publicly executed)

@copper flame I bet you’ve never heard of sphaerotholus

[copper flame]

cool name without context
and futalongnkosaurus is well preserved and means chief lizard which is why its also my favorite

[copper flame]

that lameo pachycephalosaur???
yeah i heard of it

[sullen cairn]

futalognkosaurus is a dumb idiot who clogged a river

[wintry path]

wasnt that a boat in a canal

[copper flame]

true tho

[light osprey]

The feathered Ceratosaur

[wintry path]

he is so awesome and italian

[copper flame]

I love jokes about how dinosaurs fossilized

[crude latch]

Bro invented pizza

[wintry path]

i am italy

[copper flame]

uuuuh ummm poop fart
i cut it off a little lol

[copper flame]

credit: XtinctDesign

checkmate

[wintry path]

looks like saltasaurus without all the cool stuff (boring)

[copper flame]

bad take ampelosaurus is better

fun fact: edward drinker cope was a MEGA racist

[crude latch]

Literally one of the most primative Sauropods we know of iirc, literally a goated dino

[copper flame]

oh fr? ong??????

[wintry path]

please give me hadrosaur with long neck and tail

[crude latch]

Could be wrong (probably am, just going off of wiki)

[copper flame]

olorotitan

[wintry path]

i want more monstrosities