paleontology

[zinc solstice]

And how the bottom fin in jawed fish evolved too
And how the modern jawed fish dorsal fins evolved

[silk radish]

So far, Dunkleosteus got the worst punishment in all of History

[zinc solstice]

Perucetus got shrunk too :(.

[silk radish]

[sullen cairn]

wait are we using this now

granted the competition is a subadult teratophoneus headswap, an albertosaurine headswap, another daspletosaurus headswap, and a hellspawn abomination

[woeful falcon]

Idk I was just opting for something I thought more optimal

ie anything other than a juvenile teratophoneus body

Ye exactly. Das headswaps are what I gravitate towards

[sullen cairn]

i wonder if i can just use brick's skull because its obnoxiously large

i now face the dilemma of scaling dynamoterror because the skull's like the same size as hollywood and hollywood's 7.6m despite having a much longer skull than hartman's lythro

[rancid arch]

Mini trex:

[sullen cairn]

i wonder if i can just say skull height scaling or something

[light osprey]

Lythronax bobble head real

[rancid arch]

Man all ik is that , that thing can fit a baby in its mouth

[west coral]

Are you just playing mr potato head with tyrannosaurs now

[light osprey]

We can never let Table get this bored again

[stiff osprey]

let him cook this one's my favorite so far

[sullen cairn]

because hollywood's a subadult i can legally do this

[west coral]

the body looks like a rotisserie chicken

[light osprey]

Using gallus gallus for the dorsal view of the GDI

[rancid arch]

They burnt my kfd. I banged it against the wall and it screamed and squeaked. I want a refund. Its raw and over burnt.

[sullen cairn]

crap randoms right this actually looks sick

its like bitey looking

[zinc solstice]

Looking at basal birds and basal deinonychosaurians there is literally almost no differences from the looks of it (if anchiornithids are troodontids)

[silk radish]

The gobbler

[white matrix]

Thought you said ursus ursus for a second

[zinc solstice]

Does anybody know any dromaeosaurs that lived from 168 till the end of the Jurassic?

On Wikipedia it says that there were some dromaeosaurs during the Jurassic but if there are none wouldn't it say possible mid Jurassic record?

[west coral]

Teeth my friend, all there is

[zinc solstice]

How do they know that those are dromaeosaur teeth it could be possible that a small theropod with a similar neiche converged on the same type of teeth

[light osprey]

Simply impossible

They must be Dromaeosaur teeth

[sullen cairn]

do we know like how 4t dynamoterror became a thing

the frontals are like objectively smaller than lythronax

[west coral]

maybe he’s just fat

[nocturne merlin]

wait was archaeopteryx an active flier or a glider i cant remember the last report

[tranquil quartz]

Yh iirc this is all it is. So not very compelling

[sullen cairn]

that got reassigned as an abelisaur

[tranquil quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/spiderman-dancing-gif-24233159

when will my dreams of a Maast Carch become reality…

Wait what about that weird french maast maxmilla

[sullen cairn]

arcovenator description calls it an abelisaur but mortimer still considers it a possible carch for whatever reason

[light osprey]

Abelisauridae indet.

[tranquil quartz]

im going to return to palaeontology in 50 years and there better be a Maast Carch bro

[zinc solstice]

The romers gap will be fully completed before a maast carch gets found

[tranquil quartz]

Im holding out on maast Australia 💀 that carch is chilling there in the non existent fossil record

[light osprey]

The Megaraptors:

[tranquil quartz]

nuh uh

[light osprey]

Also they are completely absent from Australia

[tranquil quartz]

let me believe

[zinc solstice]

Today I learned Carcharadontosaurus is more closely related to birds than to Spinosaurus :/

[lavish frigate]

Is that true? Ig Spinosaurs are more basal?

[zinc solstice]

Nvm it's an old phylogeny on wiki

[lavish frigate]

This totally accurate cladogram failed me 😔

[light osprey]

Spinosaurus would not be an Avetheropoda so I think that’s right

[zinc solstice]

More accurate one is allosaurus is more closely related to birds than to ceratosaurus

[lavish frigate]

Oh hey it’s Hank

H A N K

[zinc solstice]

Jungles are terrible for fossilization imagine all of the clades of prehistoric wildlife that lived in jungles that never fossilized...

[light osprey]

Take any subtropical faunal composition and dial up the diversity

[lavish frigate]

Thaaaats why hectors ichthyosaur never fossilized again! Fresh water jungle giant fr fr fr fr fr fr fr!

[light osprey]

Rainforests do preserve though, just not Tropical ones

[zinc solstice]

What if.. there were some flightless jungle pterosaurs...

[lavish frigate]

Monke Tapejara monke Tapejara

[upbeat hornet]

Tyrannosaurus and Spinosaurus papers and conversations more often than not end up being super controversial so everybody loves talking about them. And then the niche conversations are always sparked by some random question or meme post which is hilarious to me

like someone will post a meme about some random animal from the paleozoic and then it will go into super deep conversation about that animal and I love it

Watch this it never fails

[stiff osprey]

only 459830500s kids remember him

[lavish frigate]

Errrrrrrmmmmmm akshually this is trilobitus magnificus and you didn’t put that in the meme 👆😎

[bronze storm]

I never knew kronosaurs and what not were related to turtles

[lavish frigate]

I think that’s the current theory

[crude latch]

Makes sense tbh

[copper flame]

dryiest/hottest formation of the mesozoic (around the jurrasic and cretaceous period)

[crude latch]

My grandmas Bumm

[sullen cairn]

stupid animal

[silk radish]

Lythronax?

[sullen cairn]

correct

[fossil ingot]

@stray saddle yeah no
Allo ain't bigger or heavier then Dasp

[silk radish]

NOOOOOO DASP

[fossil ingot]

Actually can sm make a Comparison of Biggest Dasp and Allo?

[fossil ingot]

Wut?

[silk radish]

MY BELOVED TYRANNOSAURID!1!1!1?1?1!1

[sullen cairn]

allosaurus uses allosauroidea indet

[pearl briar]

is mcraensis is another tyrannosaurus species or just an older rex?

[stray saddle]

Uhm

[fossil ingot]

Big Boi
Any weight estimates for the Dasp?

[sullen cairn]

like 3.9t

[fossil ingot]

God damn

[sullen cairn]

although tbf i'm not sure how much smaller lowerend pete iii estimates are

[stray saddle]

The dude that drawn the Allo didn't have the real stats of the Allo just saying

Let me a second

[fossil ingot]

🗿

[stray saddle]

How can I invite a person here?

[sullen cairn]

this would be sir william at like 3.6t

[silk radish]

As a DASP enjoyer, I am literally eating good now

[fossil ingot]

Who is this Dasp then?

[sullen cairn]

pete iii

[stray saddle]

Thank you!

[fossil ingot]

Ohh nice

[sullen cairn]

i wonder if i can throw in 11.5m allosauroidea indet and see if anyone notices

[fossil ingot]

Lmao

[fossil ingot]

Throw the Indet Side by Side with Sucho I wanna see that

[fossil ingot]

Smth I forget how Massive Sucho was lol

[heady thunder]

Allosaurus fills every size bracket it wants

[fossil ingot]

Lol

[ruby patio]

whats the french specimen

[sudden wind]

Who are you

Who's alt is this

[ruby patio]

Is this the 4th Saurophaganax dorsal

[stray saddle]

Is just an actual expert lol

[sudden wind]

May they present themselves?

Their name, museum they work in, field, thesis/papers etc

[stray saddle]

And driver liscense

[ruby patio]

On the topic of Allosaurus there's a very nice premaxilla from the HB Dinosaur quarry

[outer tusk]

I was wondering if the largest record Whale Shark is 61.7 feet long & 18.8m how much would it had weight in mass?

[sudden wind]

Thank you

[silk radish]

Deinosuchus is such a goat

Spine

[stray saddle]

Is the tail of a Dasp lol

[silk radish]

Ah my bad

[sullen cairn]

didn't pete iii get assigned to torosus like a month ago

or was that sir william

[ruby patio]

I thought Sir William was considered to not even be Daspletosaurus?

[sullen cairn]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195667123003087#bib14 this has em both as torosus

[nocturne merlin]

what if nanotyrannus is a younger daspleto

wait like the actual animal was found millions of years before or like the specimen was just a very young daspleto

[sullen cairn]

that is certainly an opinion
ngl i'm not too sure why most of us here are so squeamish about incorporating epenterias/assorted not oklahoma allosaur stuff into allosaurus proper size estimates in the first place
but that french specimen is very interesting, first time hearing of it

[pearl briar]

conclusion: Allo is smaller than Dasp

[sullen cairn]

conclusion, 1.22m sir william femur because why does paul et al have that jesus christ

[stray saddle]

Then you need to learn to read, lol

[pearl briar]

i'm too lazy to read someone better make a tl;dr version of this

[sullen cairn]

morrison has a good few very large allosaurid specimens that are in all likelihood proper at least allosaurus spp. but none of us like to mention those for whatever reason

[chilly knot]

I like to

[sullen cairn]

which is weird when half us call epenterias allosaurus "amplexus" anyways

[pearl briar]

who is Epanterias if it's invalid?

[sullen cairn]

allosaurus

[chilly knot]

yea

[pearl briar]

but bigger?

or am i missing smth???

[nocturne merlin]

animals can be slightly bigger or smaller nature isnt perfect

[stray saddle]

You are missing quite a few

[pearl briar]

idk bigger than average allo maybe???

[sullen cairn]

epenterias is probable terminal allosaurus material that's a good bit larger than most of the current sample

[pearl briar]

srry i'm no pro at dinos i'm just an amateur dino nerd

[sullen cairn]

do you know anything about the stratigraphy of the french and exter specimens?

[pearl briar]

no

[sullen cairn]

no that was like an actual question for morrison

[pearl briar]

o h

[ruby patio]

My conclusion is that its a typo

Because the other elements of Sir William certainly aren't that big so he'd have to be quite a leggy individual

[pearl briar]

then is Allosaurus and Ceratosaurus are rivals along with Torvosaurus?

[light oxide]

They filled separate niches.

[heady thunder]

All I understand, is that allo is very diverse, different lizard fr

[sullen cairn]

neat that exter's also new mexican
thanks

[nocturne merlin]

hey do you want somethin funny

[pearl briar]

so three of them didn't fight to death?

[sullen cairn]

its also as wide as sue for some reason so i'm assuming something got very screwed up somewhere along the lines with the measurements

[nocturne merlin]

saurophaganax

[pearl briar]

what is allo lifespans?

how's big al?

[pearl briar]

i haven't heard from her again since i watched the ballad of big al 8 years ago

her weight?

big al is jimmadseni?

[sullen cairn]

any literature one could read for this?

[sullen cairn]

mostly for the UUVP 3609 part

[light oxide]

No.

Torvosaurus mainly hunted vulnerable sauropods and larger stegosaurids, Ceratosaurus mainly hunted the smaller prey items like Dryosaurus, Camptosaurus, etc., and Allosaurus mainly hunted the medium sized prey, though it did also have adaptations for sauropod hunting and especially for sauropod consumption and corpse manipulation.

[bright veldt]

The current idea is that they liked different areas of the Morrison.

[light oxide]

With Ceratosaurus in the open areas, Torvosaurus in the forested areas, and Allosaurus in both, correct?

[pearl briar]

so they're friends?

[bright veldt]

Torvosaurus liked forest edge habitats the most, likely due to it providing the best opportunities for ambushing larger prey. Ceratosaurus funnily enough is most associated with the open fern prairies. Allosaurus didn’t seem to care about habitat preference and was everywhere and seemed to have ate anything (although it’s larger arms seem to suggest at least a preference towards smaller prey it can overwhelm, which makes sense if you’re not the top dog)

[light oxide]

Nah — they just don't bother with each other for the most part, unless under certain circumstances like drought or starvation of either parties, in which case they would not like each other.

[sullen cairn]

pain

thank you

[outer tusk]

what did I miss

[pearl briar]

allosaurus stuff ig

[sullen cairn]

despite the fact most of the server agrees epenterias and co are some variation of allosaurus sp. it has taken us until an hour ago for someone to point out that we really should be considering them in allosaurus size estimates
and apparently the majority of allosaurus specimens are immature including some of the larger ones

[bright veldt]

It’s…iffy. Largest proper allosaurus specimen was still growing, but we also have mature allosaurus smaller than it. Their rates of growth seemed to be all over the place depending on the individual and their circumstances.

[chilly knot]

I only see huge common allosaurus Ws

[sullen cairn]

and there's a couple more obscure large allosaurus specimens that I don't think a single person here was aware of until now

[sullen cairn]

i concur

[stray saddle]

People r usually sleep on about Allosaurus

[chilly knot]

Best dinosaur ngl

[outer tusk]

Allosarus.

[light oxide]

May be a similar situation to crocodilians, where they only grow as much as the food availability or even amount of space in the environment.

[outer tusk]

ngl it would be funny if instead of Allosaurus it's Labrosaurus

[rancid olive]

Guys I have a samsung galaxy a13 5g and even tho I believe it has opengl 3.2 support 4gb of ram and a fairly powerful cpu I can't download it does anyone know why?

[chilly knot]

#hardware-chat

[light oxide]

Wrong chat channel, mate — this is #paleontology.

Anyways . . .

How much faster than Allosaurus was Atlasaurus said to be?

[pearl briar]

all that for get stomped by large sauropods lol

[stray saddle]

No animal could fight a grown adult Sauropod. To be honest.

[sullen cairn]

also if possible would you happen to have a pdf of the 2005 histology?

[light oxide]

You forgot other grown adult sauropods. Especially ones larger. XD

[pearl briar]

k-pg asteroids 😎

climate change 😁

[light oxide]

That and parasites. Those things are nasty to anyone.

Huh.

Have we found any evidence of Mesozoic parasites to name them or nah?

[sullen cairn]

supplementaries would still be appreciated

thanks

hm

[stray saddle]

I cant see the screenshot ; (

[light oxide]

The image failed to load on my end.

Discord's being a problem child again.

[white matrix]

It failed for me too

[native kindle]

yeah it's discord

[sullen cairn]

me when i'm in an embed fail competition and my opponent is discord

[native kindle]

was wondering why i couldn't download this skeletal i found and thought it was my wifi. sigh.

[white matrix]

Still not here

[native kindle]

big white bar🔥🔥

[chilly knot]

🙏

[stray saddle]

Wtf so werid

[sullen cairn]

that works thanks

very nice of discord to be tripping today

[stray saddle]

😂 yea, I dont know what happened

[chilly knot]

Awesome stuff

[sullen cairn]

today is a very nice morning to be someone who likes allosaurus

[inner sparrow]

Waiting for an iguanadon day 🫡

[sullen cairn]

with iguanodon you can enjoy the obscenely large 19th-century femora👍

[outer tusk]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/743858043334164490/1195729637964251267/image.png?ex=65b50d01&is=65a29801&hm=e3fb9b5ce9a2fd11d319d5eb2d4b403bc4312d4774b9f16bea45ae2d7b01e58d&

[sullen cairn]

ngl the realization amnh 680 lacks an efs is increasingly worrying

but i suppose that's congruent with the other big guys existing as well

[snow python]

Accurate?

[pearl briar]

all i see is poo

[sullen cairn]

how large are the tracks?

wait mygatt moore's bite marks right

[hallow spear]

masonvilel is probably fragilis real

[sullen cairn]

those sauro tracks being cimmaron?
(nvm just saw)

[idle talon]

Was venom a possibility for dinosaurs?

[light oxide]

Most likely not.

[idle talon]

I have to reluctantly agree since no archosaurs aside from the pitohoui bird have any sort of venom or poison

Though evidence of venom is pretty hard to find in fossils and the only prehistoric animal I know of with solid evidence for venom is that one therapsid from the early Triassic

[tough parcel]

@sullen cairn Do you have the image of Carr(?) saying he suspects Alioramus was nearing adult due to nasal characteristics?

[sullen cairn]

the silly

[light oxide]

Now . . . The main question is if this is valid or not.

[tough parcel]

Dope tysm

[light oxide]

Cause if this is true . . . Then PoT Alio would be HEAVILY oversized. XD

Hmm . . . Does anyone know if Alioramus remotus has unfused bones or not?

I know — I was just jokingly saying that if what Carr said is true, then PoT Alio would be much more oversized than we thought it was. XD

[lavish frigate]

(Thalassodromeus hands alio the badge of honor)

[idle talon]

Would anzu have been a predator? I mean they were likely omnivores and I’ve seen a skeleton of one and they’re actually pretty huge

[light oxide]

Hmm . . . It's likely that it was primarily herbivorous, while secondarily omnivorous, going off of how its relative lived and what they specifically ate.

[west coral]

boredom hitting like a freight train right now so have sue and mcdonalds

[light oxide]

Quick question — do young tyrannosaurids, like young Gorgosaurus and young Tyrannosaurus, have fused nasal bones, or nah?

[heady thunder]

The jaw placement of this Sue skeletal always reminds me of that mewing skeleton meme

[zinc solstice]

There is a species of venomous bird alive today and birds are theropod dinosaurs so yes during the Mesozoic there were some venomous dinosaurs

[bright veldt]

Derived oviraptorosaurs like anzu were likely like ornithomomids. Almost entirely herbivorous. Might've lapped up the occasional insect or small animal as they foraged but they weren't predatory, nor did they really have any adaptations for processing prey outside of swallowing stuff whole.

[light oxide]

I'm pretty sure they meant Mesozoic non-avian dinosaurs.

[zinc solstice]

If some dinosaurs today could be venomous why couldn't some Mesozoic Dino's be too

[ruby patio]

Question; how do you know if the animal has maximally expressed head intregument if you only have individuals with said intregument?

[bright veldt]

Poison and Venom are unlikely for dinosaurs as a whole. Out of the thousands of theropod species alive today, only 1-2 are actually poisonous, and that's the more likely of the two to observe. Venom? Not a chance. Never been seen anywhere nor does anything in the fossil record suggest it.

[zinc solstice]

I mean majority of animals never fossilize so there is a chance

[idle talon]

Aren’t those birds poisonous and not venomous?

[light oxide]

I was about to say when I first saw that — Venomous? You mean Poisonous? XD

[idle talon]

Well yeah there is a chance

There are random outliers even nowadays like the platypus which is venomous

[light oxide]

But as of currently, we got no non-avian dinosaur that was poisonous or venomous.

[zinc solstice]

Dam I can't trust the internet first it said it was venomous on google now it's poisonous

[bright veldt]

tbf, poison is more likely, because there's no real way to figure that out for extinct species like we can with venom. But even then, again, there's like 10 thousand bird species today and only, like, 3 in total are poisonous. It's extremely rare.

[idle talon]

I’m pretty sure the pitouhi (or however its spelled) has poisonous feathers rather then being venomous

[light oxide]

As it has been said before — almost never trust the first results on Google without proper research.

[zinc solstice]

True

[ruby patio]

Venom may be more likely in extinct dinosaurs as they were significantly more diverse than modern birds

[bright veldt]

?

[zinc solstice]

I honestly wish there were some flightless pterosaurs

[idle talon]

That one theracephalian is thought to have possibly been venomous

[bright veldt]

Yeah Euchambersia was venomous.

[idle talon]

But that’s a therapsid not an archosaur

[zinc solstice]

And Alot of habitats are bad for fossilization imagine all of the extinct fauna that never fossilized :(.

[idle talon]

Was megalania venomous?

[light oxide]

Yep

[bright veldt]

It's a monitor lizard so certainly. Venom is more common in lizards than most typically think.

[idle talon]

Like, would it need to have been?

[idle talon]

I’ve only heard of three venomous lizards but I wouldn’t surprised if there are more

[light oxide]

I mean, seeing how Komodo Dragons mostly never needed to let its venom do the work to kill its prey unlike what popular media depicts, Varanus priscus most likely never needed to let its venom do the work, instead just going straight for the kill.

[idle talon]

That’s what I was thinking since megalania was the largest predator in its environment wasn’t it? And it was huge

[bright veldt]

Bit of an outdated idea. Venom is actually widespread across many lizard groups. Beaded Lizards (like the gila monster) are the most famous, which seem to use it to defend themselves against predators. Monitor Lizards have venom too, which seems to be blood-thinning. It's exact purpose is unknown, since no monitor lizards seem to actively use it as a way of hunting prey or defending themselves, but with the komodo dragon at least it might be used as an insurance system to bleed prey out and hinder its escape in the event of escaping the initial attack. Venom is also present in a lot of other lizard groups, but seemingly vestigial and not really used too much. Iguanians have basic venom for example. This is mostly known from the mildly-venomous bearded dragon.

[idle talon]

there’s a lot of venomous snakes so it doesn’t surprise me there’s a lot of venomous lizards as well

[bright veldt]

The current theory is that venom goes really far back in lizards, likely evolving from digestive enzymes, before becoming specialized in certain clades. Snakes for example likely arose from this ancestral condition with venom, with some clades specializing into venom way more while others largely dropped it.

[idle talon]

Didn’t snakes only become venomous during the Cenezoic?

[hallow spear]

@celest pond Can you send a source for hte Measurements for DINO 2560?
Random may update the skeletal if you can provide them as he cant find them

[bright veldt]

All snakes have some trace of venom. Used or not.

[sullen cairn]

i think i found the ideal lythronax reconstruction
combine brick's legs with hartman's torso

[outer tusk]

Is this okay to use since

[sullen cairn]

not even remotely

[outer tusk]

So brick's still better

[sullen cairn]

personally i'd use hartman's over brick's cause muh subadult proportions

although then you run into the problem that brick and hartman have wildly differing preserved postcranial dimensions

[bright veldt]

Speaking of tyrannosaurs. Just something I want to point out. I really can't buy all the dissing on T. mcrae when THIS is one of the next most famous tyrannosaurs after T. rex. Like this can exist but mcrae can't? lmao https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/427839934276304917/1195776037334814881/dehpbdh-9d529c18-9e34-43b3-9982-90fe87ed6286.png?ex=65b53837&is=65a2c337&hm=9ab940fedc7ed1c7de684264a6866716d7d1ba5bce2fd0e0ffe42f0e7eb440fb&

[sullen cairn]

tbf nanuq is prolly gonna get killed as a taxon

[light oxide]

Wait what?

[white matrix]

Yet somehow creatures more fragmentary than it is valid 😭

[outer tusk]

ONG GOD

[bright veldt]

That's still a maybe, and even if it does it's been a mainstay for over a decade.

[sullen cairn]

but yeah i agree that materialwise mcraeensis isn't anything awful when 99% of diagnostic tyrannosaur characteristics are cranial

even if nanuq's diagnostic characters are nonexistant

[outer tusk]

Also just wondering should I add feahers to this?

[sullen cairn]

now the question is whether "muh kinda fragmentary" or "muh they dated 33m below the fossil" will be the more prevalent counterpoint spouted with zero elaboration

[light oxide]

I think the problem everyone has with T. mcrae is that it was dated wrong and not enough diagnostic evidence on the date of the specimen to determine if it REALLY is a new species of Tyrannosaurus or if it's just another individual variation case of T. rex.

[sullen cairn]

the only way it was dated wrong is that it can't be completely discluded that its possible the strata was doing something weird that results in late maastrichtian layers substantially lower then we'd expect
mcraeensis' dating methodology is pretty typical of most dating

the underlying strata and local fauna both suggest a latest camp-early maas age for the thing

afaik there isn't anything actively suggesting mcraeensis is late maas

[light oxide]

My one gripe with the paper was the statement that the Tyrannosaurus genus may have evolved purely on the Americas, when it was likely that the ancestor of Tarbosaurus and Tyrannosaurus came from Asia to the Americas before later on evolving into Tyrannosaurus.

Let me go find the statement.

[bright veldt]

Yeah that's...iffy. Especially when the oldest Tyrannosunini is from Asia.

[lavish frigate]

If you ad them you should do it like PhP did

Lighter coat but still very present

[hallow spear]

What about the dorsals you mentions

metatarsals as well I think you may have mentioned in the past?

[sullen cairn]

since we're in an asking for measurements mood here are those pete iii measurements from earlier publicly available anywhere?

[light oxide]

Okay . . . So it was worded a bit differently than I remembered — Here are the screenshots of it:

[bright veldt]

I can buy it on the pretense of Tyrannosaurus itself being the outgroup with tarbo/zhucheng in the study. Along with the fact that Tyrannosaurs-proper aren't actually super common in Asia it seems. It's just the Tyrannosaurins and Alioramus-co.

[opaque barn]

Does anyone know new papers for Charcaradontosaurus weight or is it still 8.5 Tons?

Did Ed Cope specimen get downside from 12 Tons to 10.4 Tons ??

[lavish frigate]

Ed cope got downsized to probably unreliable scaling

[sullen cairn]

"of course tyrannosaurini originated in north america, just look at mcraeensis"
the iren dabasu tyrannosaur stated to be a likely close relative of raptorex:

[woeful falcon]

Of course tyrannosaurini originated in north america, just look at a species of one of its last living genera and also ignore the asian tyrannosaurins as a whole

[idle talon]

Tyrannosaurus mccraensis lived earlier then tyrannosaurus rex didn’t it?

[white matrix]

Yes

[idle talon]

When exactly did it live? Was it early maastrictian, late campanian or both?

[bright veldt]

Late Campanian, ~72 mya. It's iffy tho exactly what the time is. Early Maastrichtian's possible.

[idle talon]

Damn so earlier then I thought

[zinc solstice]

Is avetheropoda a valid clade?

[bright veldt]

afaik ye

[white matrix]

@west coral Looked into it further and rhinocertoids originated in north america although I don't know how succesful they were further down time

[west coral]

rhinos originate in NA
don’t make it to SA
make it everywhere else

why didn’t they just go down? are they stupid?

[light osprey]

Yes

[white matrix]

I won’t lie I just noticed that too, but same with hyaenodonts

[west coral]

SA is cool mammal deterrent, so they had to make their own things

[zinc solstice]

Are anchiornithids troodontids?

Alot of more recent phylogenys have put them as stem troodontids

[light osprey]

Can just as easily be recovered as a Basal Avialan

[clever sable]

It's currently 10.8 tonnes possibly slightly larger but definitely not 12.4 anymore

[ancient crystal]

So on the topic of rex weight, that whole 70% larger paper everyone misquotes, wasn't the actual purpose just to find how much more weight the skeleton could support before failing or am I mistaken?

[stiff osprey]

Nope, it's estimating what the largest T.rex would be if you extrapolated it to a population of thousands instead of the like forty we have

And their conclusions are solid, but meaningless to the discussion of what's the largest theropod

[ancient crystal]

I see

[white matrix]

Who is this morrisonfpalaeo guy

[light osprey]

Gotta lotta info thas for sure

[white matrix]

Kind of sus he popped in today but eh

[sullen cairn]

cause someone else invited him

there was a convo about allo size and someone asked how to invite someone which is how he got here

[white matrix]

Oh

[stray saddle]

What happened?

Where is his message? Paleo guy? Where are his messages?

[white matrix]

@celest pond did you leave?

[stray saddle]

Im talking trought phone with him. All his messages dissappeared wtf

[white matrix]

Oops, I falsely accused him and he left.

[stray saddle]

What do you mean?

[white matrix]

He’s not in the server anymore

[tribal sandal]

Please keep this chat to paleo topics only

[white matrix]

All I said was that was sus, idk why they left

[stray saddle]

It's about that. But why was MorrisonFPaleo kicked?

[white matrix]

I don’t think they kicked him lol

[tribal sandal]

This channel is for the discussion of past and present paleontological discoveries, scientific news, and depictions of prehistoric creatures in media in relation to palaeontology, Please get this channel back on topic.

[white matrix]

Hey lorkikeet can my paleo chat lore thing get pinned?

[west coral]

le brie

[tribal sandal]

Hello!, You can message our @feral crane Bot to make a request - Please attach in your request what you would like pinned so our moderator team can review it along with any other relevant information. 🐦

[stiff osprey]

that's a lot of ungulates

[zinc solstice]

Wait what is the difference between the advanced mammaliaformes and the first mammals like they literally they look Identical

[terse isle]

.

[west coral]

But no rhinocerotids

[white matrix]

Between extinct and extant mammaliformes?

[zinc solstice]

Extinct

The Triassic ones

[white matrix]

some osteological, cranial and post cranial stuff maybe

[zinc solstice]

The basal shrew like ones

[light osprey]

First ever question about Mesozoic Mammals 💯🔥✨

[white matrix]

the midmammals

[tough parcel]

The mighty Daspletosaurus...

[west coral]

make it the last

[light osprey]

Chat is chronically unbased smh

[zinc solstice]

Wait is it possible that there is a ghost lineage of placental mammals from 125 to 80 mya?

Like there is a sudden gap spanning that time for Mesozoic placental mammalss

And also is the hell Creek boa still valid?

[light osprey]

As far as I know, any Mesozoic Placentals would be limited to the very latest Cretaceous

[zinc solstice]

I mean there is Altacreodus a stem hyenadont 70.1 mya from the Mesozoic and Protungunaltum from 70 mya and marsupials split off from placentals 125 mya with the first stem marsupial sinodelphys that lived in the early Cretaceous...

I wonder Why do the stem marsupials have such a clear Fossil record for the Mesozoic and not placental mammals too?

[copper flame]

was maraapunisaurus fragillimus really that big in life
is there any good concerate weight or height?

[white matrix]

calling for tableseating

[west coral]

@sullen cairn I summon thee

[sullen cairn]

i don't think its really concrete but afaik like 70t is fine for the thing but i've never looked much into it

[indigo grove]

🤨

is it another Tyrannosaur?

[light osprey]

Another Tyrannosaurus to be precise

[west coral]

tyrannosaurus

[ancient crystal]

T-rex has been dethroned so many times now

At least this time its by an actual megatheropod and not some random tooth taxon from the triassic

[woeful falcon]

and it also hasn't been dethroned either 😌 well, it shares a throne with the closest thing related to T. rex which might just be T. rex, and giga.

[ancient crystal]

I know, but if only I had a dollar for everytime I saw some variation of "New discovery dethrones T. rex"

This is my favorite one I think

[light osprey]

“Over a ton” by god he’s massive

[elfin pulsar]

Over a ton

[ancient crystal]

This first paragraph hurts to read

[white matrix]

They used lancians work and credited agencies ☠️

[copper flame]

me when track mark

[indigo grove]

april fools dino

[indigo grove]

yeah not viable

[west coral]

easy solution: it’s a jacana

[sullen cairn]

$10 this guys Italian

[stiff osprey]

this is what the track looks like

[white matrix]

virgin chrome user
megachad opera gx user

[tough parcel]

The mighty prehistoric kangaroo...

[white matrix]

Procoptodon fans when they realize it wasn't hopping like a kangaroo at full speed:

[stiff osprey]

the footprint length is just about half of the total length of 135 cm, giving us a very plausible 10m carcharodontosaur

from 35 tons to 5. you're welcome 👍

[sullen cairn]

adult scipionyx?//1111???!!11

[tough parcel]

Nah, what the hell is this power where you see something and immediately downsize it to like 1/5 of its original size 😭

[sullen cairn]

tbf its not too hard to downsize prehistoric wiki schizoposts

[west coral]

procoptodon would be horrifying running at you

[stiff osprey]

The longer I go without downsizing something, the more powerful I become

After long enough I can simply point at a poorly thought out estimate and it explodes

[tough parcel]

Oh my god

God's Strongest Downscaler...

[white matrix]

Stronger upscaler is who

[tough parcel]

Honestly depending on the day, probably Table

[white matrix]

What has he upsized

[tough parcel]

Uhhh actually nvm, just remembered his various crimes against abelisaurs

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-oh-great-heavens-oh-dear-oh-my-looking-gif-27674775

[outer tusk]

Megalodon is life, life is megalodon

[elfin pulsar]

Why is it that big 😭

[woeful falcon]

Not even livyatans just sperm whales

[clever sable]

And the meg is just a great white

[west coral]

bigass meg

[clever sable]

May you please send that sperm whale comparison, I'm working on a size comparison of a ton of sperm whale specimens so it would be much appreciated

[west coral]

👍

[rugged remnant]

They probably gallop

[steady rock]

where there any prehestoric elephants under 1 ton? not counting island dwarfism

[rugged remnant]

Or a mako shark

[rugged remnant]

Their ancestors

[steady rock]

which ones, give me names

[stiff osprey]

are you talking about elephantids or proboscideans in general?

Moeritherium, Eritherium, and numidotheriids are all various levels of smol

[steady rock]

elephantids

1.5 tons under is fine

[pearl briar]

i just realized that it's been 122 years since the first rex fossil got discovered by Brown, and 119 years since rex got described by Osborn

[steady rock]

i cant do that math, im sorry

[indigo grove]

oversized right? bc im pretty sure a meg was as big as a bull spermwhale

[woeful falcon]

Half meter tooth

[tiny holly]

I'm pretty sure the biggest megalodon teeth are only a little longer than a hand from fingertips to heel of palm. so. yknow.

[quiet ore]

Im curious how big the tallest human on earth would look (8'11) next to a trex

[light oxide]

That individual would be approximately 2.7178 meters tall.

Sue was around 3.8 meters tall at the hip, for example.

So, based on how I see it . . . the individual's tip of the head would be touching Sue's chin.

Or a little above that point.

[quiet ore]

That would be real massive tbh compared to a Trex 💀

[quiet ore]

Biggest polar bear was like 3.3m which could be near a trex size which thats insane too

[chilly knot]

What

[ancient crystal]

Mm, 8 - 10 ton polar bears, my favorite

[tiny holly]

Length, not hip height mind you. That's how tall that polar bear would have been standing upright. Shoulder/hip height was like half that

That's why measuring height is problematic because posture changes how tall something looks by a lot :P technically when we're measuring our own height, we're essentially measuring our length

[quiet ore]

Well yeah my bad, i didnt mean the height nor the mass i meant the height

[quiet ore]

Sarcasm, my favorite

[west coral]

It’s complete BS, I was trying to do a funny

[outer tusk]

I love how some people tried to correct the joke

[hallow spear]

This is the old one 🤓

Its ACKTUALLY 3.9m tall at the hip

[chilly knot]

zesty

[sour pelican]

Is microraptor a dromeasaur?

[stiff osprey]

yeah

[light oxide]

I see — still near Sue's chin area for the height of a 8'11" individual person (or 2.7178 meters tall).

[twin tapir]

numidotherium

[steady rock]

its ugly 😦

[real swan]

General chat reminder to remain polite and respectful towards each other and do not provoke or antagonize other users. Refer to our ⁠#rules.

[twin tapir]

🙄

[cloud dagger]

https://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2024/january/giant-worm-fossils-.html

[twin tapir]

Its your best bet when it comes to small proboscideans that look elephantine but aren't dwarves

[steady rock]

how big because im scared of worms

[opaque barn]

Is this a real person that mods or AI genuine question

[frosty anvil]

Real person

[opaque barn]

Thanks

[stiff osprey]

1 foot

[white matrix]

That, and there is also P. falconeri

[steady rock]

i would cry if you asked me that question

[twin tapir]

P. Falconeri is a dwarf

[frosty anvil]

Hello paleo chat may i get some skeletals of deinonychus and achillobator

Thanks in advance

[twin tapir]

No

[frosty anvil]

Well cluck you too then (joke)

Is this a good achillo skeletal or no

[twin tapir]

I'd assume so

[bright veldt]

The best one is Brick's tmk

[white matrix]

Why is nimravid phylogeny weird

[twin tapir]

I love nimravids, and barbourofelids. Beautiful false cats

[white matrix]

It’s all fun games and when dicintis is the most basal nimravid from being most derived

[bright veldt]

If only it was easy to find. Hang on.

[west coral]

here be bird

[bright veldt]

Here it is

[white matrix]

@light osprey

[light osprey]

Bird

[white matrix]

The birb

[sour pelican]

Pyroraptor

[white matrix]

Pyroraptor

[sour pelican]

Wrong one but yes

[white matrix]

Why

[zinc solstice]

During the late Permian were there other basal archosauriformes other than archosaurus?

And were there other basal lepidosauromorphs in the late Permian other than Paleagama?

[west coral]

Inaccurate JP thing

[steady rock]

how much did torosaurus weigh?

[white matrix]

ahem...

[white matrix]

running procoptodon > hopping procoptodon

[heady thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-why-hes-the-goat-goat-the-goat-he-is-the-goat-greatest-of-all-time-gif-26915254

[bright veldt]

~7 tons

[zinc solstice]

The ediacrian is better and cooler than the cambrian

[honest wave]

I just want to say, ceratosuchops is one of the coolest dinosaur names I’ve ever heard

[tranquil quartz]

Spectrovenator is pretty cool as well

[honest wave]

Never heard of that one, what kinda dinosaur is it? Please educate me

[outer tusk]

Spec is a dog as a dinosaur and I love it

[tranquil quartz]

basal abelisaurid. Its name means ‘Ghost Hunter’

[outer tusk]

abelisaurid

[honest wave]

Ah gotcha, that is pretty awesome actually ngl

[tranquil quartz]

why so low quality

[honest wave]

So basically abelisaurid but more petable

[outer tusk]

Yes as theyre might've been a larger abeliosaurid in the environment alongside a carcharodontosauridae

[steady rock]

#justicefortorosauurs

[outer tusk]

#justiceforthedinosaurs

[honest wave]

I assume early Cretaceous?

[outer tusk]

Yes

[honest wave]

You call that a yangchaunosaurus???

Even for early 2010s that looks disgusting

[outer tusk]

now me personally the carcharodontosaurid that TOTALLY inhabited in the Quiricó Formation, as Gigaspinus

[outer tusk]

yeah it's pretty damn bad

[honest wave]

It’s face looks so deformed

[outer tusk]

how?

[steady rock]

Does anyone remember that dinosaur tournament book

[outer tusk]

Maybe

[honest wave]

The teeth on the top jaw

[steady rock]

It was a book with others, like, jungle rumble and ocean royale

[outer tusk]

I mean ig but idk

[honest wave]

Idk I might be crazy

[west coral]

The entire skull is wrong

[honest wave]

That too yeah

[west coral]

all of it is wrong

[honest wave]

It’s like the “allosaurus” from jwtg

I wouldnt call that allosaurus and I definitely wouldn’t call this a yangchuanosaurus

[outer tusk]

yeah cause if you don't know Gigaspinus is just a joke animal based around fraony's giga and the dominion giga

[sullen cairn]

btw gsp has a taller skull recon for spectro

[honest wave]

Deinocheirus is dad just fyi

Deinocheirus has that dad energy

[storm heron]

Huh, when did he make a skull recon for Spectrovenator?

[frail robin]

Deinocheirus has that weird, smelly uncle vibe

[outer tusk]

this isn't dad energy

[honest wave]

Nah he’s got a dad bod man

[honest wave]

Debatable tbh

[rose thorn]

Nah, it’s the smelly uncle. Rex is dad shaped

Exhibit A

[honest wave]

Alr fair point you got me there

[ancient crystal]

So I've been trying to find a source online about Sue's gastralia being mounted backwards since I've seen several people say that here, but I can't find anything

[light osprey]

Gigaspinus

[bright pine]

Dad

[white matrix]

pug W

[honest wave]

Literally dad

[outer tusk]

it's meant to be the point

no lmao, it's a literal apirl fool's joke

L

[crude latch]

What is possibly the smallest Dino we know of atm?

[light osprey]

Mellisuga helenae

[stiff osprey]

if you're looking for non-bird dinosaurs there's a bunch of contenders

Parvicursor, scansoriopterygids, and Eosinopteryx come to mind

[white matrix]

That’s interestingly small….

[stiff osprey]

smallest warm blooded animal moment

[white matrix]

Wait what are insects blooded

[crude latch]

d a m m

[stiff osprey]

transparent

[crude latch]

How big are these goobers

[outer tusk]

less than like 20kg

[light osprey]

Ostromia is a lil guy

[lavish frigate]

Is this technically the smallest dinosaur?

[white matrix]

👍

[lavish frigate]

Got em! Turns out the smallest dinosaur was ACTUALLY the friends we made along the way!

[crude latch]

💀

[white matrix]

I got the meme but don’t understand the context

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/friends-we-made-along-the-way-gif-26479085

[lavish frigate]

The context is that the smallest dinosaur was really the journey NOT the destination! 🫵

[stiff osprey]

Parvicursor is 50cm and like 200-300 grams, Eosinopteryx according to GSP is 30cm and 100 grams, and then various scansoriopterygids are ~30-50cm and 200-300 grams

the reason it's uncertain is because both Eosinopteryx and Parvicursor may or may not be juveniles

[white matrix]

Any animal with the suffix “cursor” is clearly based

[mossy anchor]

Not exactly related to the animals themselves, but does anyone have any good resources for the history of paleontology as a science branch? I'm thinking the first dinosaur discovered, big names, conferences held, large shifts in the paleontology world like the Dinosaur Renaissance

[chilly obsidian]

Paleo chat, identify

[light osprey]

That’s my maxilla sorry

[stiff osprey]

it's weird because it looks like a maxilla fused with a lacrimal

[chilly obsidian]

Kind?

[light osprey]

It’s actually an upside down fenestrated Dentary

[stiff osprey]

i feel like I see a maxillary fenestra there which makes it a theropod

but it could just conveniently be broken in that area

where is this from?

[chilly obsidian]

My replica that fell off my shelf

[chilly obsidian]

Here I decided to make it easier

[stiff osprey]

Dromaeosaur skull of some kind

[sullen cairn]

largest prince creek tyrannosaurine material is like 8m

[light osprey]

Clearly distinct, Nanuqsaurus is obviously a dwarf Tyrannosaur about 7 metres

[sullen cairn]

some immature allosaurus in the spirit of that guy mods killed

[outer tusk]

So by age 28 Allosaurus is still immature?

[sullen cairn]

potentially but also could be as low as 22 and growth rates vary heavily between individuals

ie there's smaller individuals that reached skeletal maturity by 22

[lavish frigate]

Deinonychus?

[west coral]

here be better bird and a psychopathic parrot

[chilly obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/correct-plankton-gif-14118231

[lavish frigate]

I’ve seen many a deinon skull in my day lol. I have a lot of skulls memorized

[sullen cairn]

scaling hartman's lythronax's tibia with hartman's das looks kinda funny

[indigo grove]

i think, its a dinosaur

[crude latch]

No that’s a iridescent cheese eater frog

[indigo grove]

omg really?? thats super rare

[crude latch]

Indeed, although it seems he found the frog in a unfortunate state 😔

[stiff osprey]

He's ok but he died

[tough parcel]

He's just waiting to respawn

[sullen cairn]

can someone please tell me how gsp somehow made rajasaurus 25% larger when it was already oversized by a factor of 400%

[tough parcel]

Through the power of Greyskull (servers)

[serene moat]

What's updated recent weight for carch and spino?

[light osprey]

7 tonnes and 15 tonnes

[sullen cairn]

holy crap tyrannolivia actually does have a lythronax that seems pretty reasonable

[woeful falcon]

calm down

[sullen cairn]

and the mass actually corresponds with the length for once

i'm not sure if the fact its the same length as my preferred edit rn should be reassuring or alarming

[lavish frigate]

The one skeletal in existence that has feathers isn’t even a maniraptoran

[woeful falcon]

yeah but it's a coelurosaur

[lavish frigate]

True

[woeful falcon]

I will provide you what you ask

[lavish frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/crowd-cheering-crowd-hype-cheer-cheer-meme-gif-22195506

[fossil ingot]

7 tons for Carcha
8.1-8.5+ tons for Biggest Spino
You can MAYBE MAYBE get a Carcha specimen to 8.2 tonz but its a maybe

[ancient crystal]

Don't forget the 13-22 tons that google says spino was

Is 22 tons even possible for a theropod? Like mechanically speaking?

[sullen cairn]

southern laramidia campanian NA tyrannosaurs attempt #1

lythronax/dynamoterror proportions still kinda iffy of and partial dentary scaling is shockingly tenuous

[light osprey]

Burn them all

[woeful falcon]

ayo where that dynamo skull come from

[sullen cairn]

some engh tweet

apparently its about the same size as hollywood as well

[woeful falcon]

nice

[lucid ibex]

Hey guys, are you able to whip up a size comp between eurhinosaurus and shonisaurus pls?

[steady rock]

say your favorite prehestoric creature without saying its name

[storm heron]

Abelisaurid

[lusty quarry]

Skinny, long-legged tyrannosaurid that’s a bit bigger than Alio

[tranquil quartz]

Qianzhousaurus?

[pearl briar]

is Tanycolagreus valid?

[sullen cairn]

if there's anything that's come out of this lythronax business its that adelolophus is actually pretty damn big relative to the thing

although that might have more to do with wahweap having essentially zero tyrannosaur material outside lythronax's holotype

well that and i'm pretty sure adelolophus would commit shrink if you scaled it with hartman's paras

[west coral]

do not let it commit shrink

[hallow spear]

Adel changes based on what para its based on

Walkeri has a proportionally smaller head iirc****

[sterile trail]

Should be, to my knowledge

[outer tusk]

@pearl briar yes Tanycolagreus is very much valid

[silk radish]

Can’t wait for Nanotyrannus to be invalid again

[bright veldt]

It is. The paper that tried to bring it back was trash.

[honest wave]

As table said it varies between individuals, but there’s been a few separate studies on various branches of allosauroidea suggesting that they may grow very slowly and live for a long time

However this is from a few very specific studies, the only one of which I can remember with relative clarity being on only carcharodontosaurus itself.

Also this suggestion should be taken with a grain of salt not only because of the small sample size, but also simply because allosauroidea was a long-lasting and diverse grouping of animals that filled a large number of different niches

[outer tusk]

ok

10 minutes memory sketch of a Oviraptor, how does it look?

[nocturne merlin]

this an accurate skeletal for archaeopteryx? based my model over it so im a bit worried

[outer tusk]

it's fine

[tough parcel]

Sassy doesn't like their skeletals anymore

[silk radish]

Thank the heavens

[light osprey]

There’s more publications incoming, don’t get too comfy 🤭

[ruby patio]

Some "Nanotyrannus" individuals have arms longer than that of adults

And the new paper on the dualing dinosaurs is said to be in preparation...

[next kernel]

could someone put in here an accurate cerato and a pic of the isle cerato from the side

[zinc solstice]

I mean doesn't dracorex have longer horns than pachycephalosaurus but dracorex is still a baby pachy?

Dracorex though will always be a young pachy and that's facts

[stiff osprey]

Some "Nanotyrannus" individuals have bigger claws than the adults. The arms are shorter

[nimble cradle]

Cool

[outer tusk]

I updated it so I might show it later

[nimble cradle]

Nice

[snow python]

How big is the largest Teratophoneus?

[sullen cairn]

~6m

~900kg scaling with the gdi

[bright veldt]

Teratophoneus was that small?

[sullen cairn]

both specimens are subadults

which is also why it looks stupid

[bright veldt]

Even if slightly upscaled that's still tiny for a tyrannosaur

[sullen cairn]

if you compare it to a subadult gorgosaurus its not too alarming

combine that with neither dynamoterror nor lythronax seeming to be especially large by tyrannosaur standards/there already being an adult tyrannosaur about the same size from texas and terato isn't too much out the ordinary

[woeful falcon]

Why don't you use hartman's epic based skull :/

[sullen cairn]

its ugly and no one reconstructs the type skull like that

[woeful falcon]

...

[white matrix]

........................

[woeful falcon]

Not cool Table. I'm not sure about our friendship anymore

[white matrix]

Thats something my mother would say

[sullen cairn]

ransom et al literally has the same exact skull

[outer tusk]

@nimble cradle opinion?

[white matrix]

is this the morrison guy?

[outer tusk]

Oviraptor, my favorite Morrison theropod

[white matrix]

no, the rathalos guy

[outer tusk]

Idk

[lavish frigate]

Out of curiosity who is this lil Dino dude?

[white matrix]

oviraptor

[lavish frigate]

Ah I see. I believe that it’s unknown/improbable that oviraptor itself had a crest. At least last I heard about the lil guy

The crest stereotype came from Citipati

And not even technically Citipati

It’s from an unnamed skull

[compact leaf]

oviraptor is presumed to have a crest we just don't know exactly how big or what shape

[outer tusk]

true

[compact leaf]

we have a skull from it with part of the crest preserved and most other oviraptorosaurs have a large casque like citipati, giving it a crest is perfectly reasonable

[light osprey]

Guh

[lavish frigate]

I probably wouldn’t call it a “casque” since it’s very unlikely it actually had a keratin sheath on it. In oviraptorosaurs it’s probably a large nasal thing going on

[light osprey]

A casque of flesh

[lavish frigate]

Just because in most oviraptorosaurs it doesn’t show signs of keratin.

[light osprey]

The crest, could’ve been flush with feathered head as well right

[compact leaf]

any covering that isn’t flesh qualifies as a casque in my view, call it a crest if you want my point stands

[white matrix]

Wasn’t the crest skin?

[lavish frigate]

The point is that it was flesh

It was probably a large fleshy nasal “crest”

[compact leaf]

where is a skin crest coming from? I have not seen any recent oviraptorosaur depictions with a skin covered crest

[light osprey]

I think these all qualify

[lavish frigate]

Especially that third one

[compact leaf]

is this a recent development? I missed something apparently, I’ve still been going off something similar to what php did with corythoraptor

[light osprey]

Corythoraptor and presumably fellas like it did have a casque

Most Oviraptors have a very different crest though

[compact leaf]

the point I’m making isn’t about covering it’s about the extent of the crest in oviraptor, you can get away with making it bigger

[lavish frigate]

True

[ancient crystal]

So why is Sue's gastralia mounted backwards? I've seen people mention it here, but no source I can find mentions that and in fact most say the gastralia was deliberately kept off of its display until the skeleton was moved and all those articles act like it was placed properly

[white matrix]

I know it doesn't really belong in this chat but does anyone have a high quality image of the current version of the gondwa map?
something like this but without the circles?

nevermind I found it

[copper flame]

what carnivorous theropod has the longest neck relative to body size?

[lavish frigate]

Me

[woeful falcon]

including or excluding birds

[white matrix]

birds are dinosaurs

[woeful falcon]

wait, they said carnivorous also lul. Missed that detail.

still might be a bird for all I know but I'm gonna assume they're not thinking of birds. my guess would be a coelophysoid or some earlier theropod. They tend to have long necks

otherwise I'd have to guess a terror bird or similar

herons, cranes

[white matrix]

terror bird is a colloquial term teehee

[woeful falcon]

phorusrhachids.

[sullen cairn]

me when i'm in a failing royally at understanding what alamotyrannus refers to challenge and my opponent is the internet

[light osprey]

Erm that’s That Tyrannosaurus mcraeensis right?

[meager wigeon]

flyers should be able to carry rocks and drop to dinos below

[outer tusk]

how long was Platecarpus, because if 5.6m ( 18ft ) is an overestimate than what could it be?

[white matrix]

@west coral

[west coral]

beautiful

[outer tusk]

He should totally do braincase scaling

[west coral]

i have

[outer tusk]

Show me, I dare you

[west coral]

kerber and alaskan giant, two very silly taxa

[frosty anvil]

Give me some species that lived in colder environment that people dont really know much about (mostly asking for a realism server i plan on hosting)

[light osprey]

Vulpes lagopus lives somewhere decently cold

[white matrix]

Arctic Fox

[frosty anvil]

True

[light osprey]

/j the only truly cold formations I can think of from the Mesozoic are the Prince Creek and Cantwell, and only one of those has named taxa

Alas, I don’t suppose Alaskacephale is widely known

[white matrix]

Prince Creek Cantwell

[west coral]

here’s an old prince creek chart I made

I pray that those hadrosaurs are immature

[light osprey]

Erm Cimolodon forgotten how can this be

[tough parcel]

I mean there is physically no way they aren't lmao

[white matrix]

who's the nanuq skeletal by?

[west coral]

randoms dasp head swapped with sergis nanuq

[white matrix]

do people use bastions skeletal?

[outer tusk]

No because Nanuqsaurus is mid

[sullen cairn]

The sergi headswap’s just scaled to the estimated skull length of the newer prince creek material

[outer tusk]

Honestly I just want to know if Nanuqsaurus does become invalid what potential species of tyrannosaurinae would fit it best?

[white matrix]

i still dont understand where did this "nanuq" is invalid thing come from

[light osprey]

Tyrannosaurinae indet.

[sullen cairn]

The new nanuq paper obliterating its diagnosis

[white matrix]

link?

[sullen cairn]

iirc the Wikipedia article has the citation somewhere now

[outer tusk]

also it's materials becing pretty bad

thought I guess you could say there's worse ig, espeically regarding tyrannosaurs

[west coral]

would nanuq get redescribed as nanuq if better material is found or would it be put into something else?

[sullen cairn]

It’d have to overlap with the holotype but in theory yeah

[light osprey]

The dwarf tyrannosaur returns….

[west coral]

Alamotyrannus hoglundi

[outer tusk]

Am I a bad person for wanting Nanuqsaurus to be invalid and renamed into Gorgosaurud . Hoglundi?

[light osprey]

It’s a Tyrannosaurine fortunately

[outer tusk]

True

[west coral]

arctic teratophonein

[surreal stone]

im gonna be making some skeletals for practice

any suggestions?

preferably something fragmentary since the bones are the hardest bit lol

[white matrix]

Allosaurus, simplistic yet fun 🤩

[surreal stone]

sure thing! Should i ping you when it is done or no?

[white matrix]

Sure

[pearl briar]

not paleo related but if big cats could hurt/kill me why are their friend shaped?

[jagged trellis]

same reason why bears and crocodilians are: because

[light osprey]

It’s a lie, they don’t hurt anybody 😪 they are indeed friends not foe

[white matrix]

Surely I should go pspspspps to the big big big kitty and it’ll cuddle me don’t try this at home

[surreal stone]

exactly

[surreal stone]

you sir, have you ever heard of a cuviers dwarf caimon

[jagged trellis]

still bitey log

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/hp-gif-hp-gif-22472532

[surreal stone]

But cute

[white matrix]

For reference btw.

[light osprey]

Not a Caiman, Caimans are even nicer

[surreal stone]

anyways i need to work on a skeletal lol

[jagged trellis]

cute yes but bitey also yes

[pearl briar]

aww big toe beans

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/pspspsps-neature-walk-neature-gif-17509511

[white matrix]

erm nuh uh

[chilly obsidian]

I hope the big Troodontid isn't build like a lightweight, that'd be terrifying

[compact jetty]

Question, if i wanna know more abt dinosaurs where should i start?

[white matrix]

I need more animations where Smilo acts like a big kitty

[pearl briar]

how to differenate Parasaurolophus and Charonosaurus?🔎

[open compass]

Is this creature is valid?

[west coral]

Yes

[zinc solstice]

In my opinion the genus name dinosaurus should've been saved for a basal stem dinosaur near the common ancestor of the saurischians and ornithischians and not a therapsid.

[silk radish]

Any image of the current accurate size for Pycnonemosaurus?

[silk radish]

Aight, now compare him to a Allo and Dasp

[tough parcel]

:(

[silk radish]

:troll face:

[tough parcel]

Bro says troll face instead of a please

What has society become

[silk radish]

Ok fine sorry

Plz

[silk radish]

Dang ig he is slighty shorter (btw thx)

[tough parcel]

[heady thunder]

I love how allo comes in basically every size

[tough parcel]

It's because we have literally thousands of them, of course you're gonna see some variation in sizes

[lavish frigate]

Mesozoic animals as a whole: (sample size not large enough to tell things about max size, sexual dimorphism etc.)

Allosaurus styracosaurus and pteranodon:

[white matrix]

among us

[white matrix]

in real life

[lavish frigate]

Sus

[real swan]

Thank you for the ping.

[white matrix]

What happened

curse you homotherium enthusiast...

Dm me what it is

[ancient crystal]

What did we do to deserve this?

[green smelt]

Where can I post clips?

[white matrix]

Dan cooked

You misunderstood nvm

[clever sable]

Can you describe it in more detail in a DM?

Like how bad was it

[glad brook]

WHAT THE HELL why is it so big!!

no dog has any right to be that F$%#$# big

[white matrix]

Because of the prey it was hunting

[glad brook]

What prey??????????????

[white matrix]

Gomphotheres/Deinotheres etc

[glad brook]

wtf

[glad brook]

Why does it have such a long jaw?

[white matrix]

1. It’s probably because it was just big

2. Again might have to do something regarding big prey, Savage says megisto could bite ~30 cm away from its canines, so it could bite a proboscidean limb comfortably

[glad brook]

Was this heavier than utahraptor/albertosaurus?

[white matrix]

Alberto no, Utah depends on the specimen

[glad brook]

I just am not comfortable seeing something that BIG

[lavish frigate]

I hope you never discover sauropods 💀…..or whales……or giant ichthyosaurs……

[glad brook]

like large land carnivore mammals

[light oxide]

Hmm . . . Everyone's favorite ornithomimid?

[white matrix]

Hyaenodon

[native kindle]

are we talking Ornithomimosauria as a whole or only Ornithomimidae

[light oxide]

Ornithomimosauria or Ornithomimidae. Up to you.

[lavish frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/prehistoric-planet-dinosaur-dinosaurs-ornithomimus-stick-gif-26442483

[native kindle]

cheirus. been a favorite of mine for a while

top 5 in general

[outer tusk]

Deino

[stiff osprey]

Gallimimus

[compact leaf]

I feel like I saw galli in Jurassic Park and like nothing else, somehow underrated

[outer tusk]

I don't really see it as underrated but it's just me

[light osprey]

Gallimimus underrated!! 💯🔥🔥💯

[white matrix]

Ornithomimus is where it’s at

[rose thorn]

Beishanlong

[steady rock]

how accurate is this itchyovenator depiction?

[storm heron]

Woah, what a great artwork

It seems fine to me, just another depiction of it since we do not have a lot of bones from Itchyovenator's remains.

[pearl briar]

Gabriel Ugueto?

[surreal stone]

the sail is a bit odd but seems faitly plausable

[steady rock]

yea

[surreal stone]

exactly

[storm heron]

The sails seems more normal compared to what its skeletal remains show

Hmm, now that I notice it, it seems they have put more soft tissue over the dip

[tough parcel]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Ichthyovenator_laosensis_skeletal_reconstruction_by_PaleoGeek.png

[sour pelican]

I know there is no way of knowing the "personality" of animals but I'm inclined to think ceratopsids or most other large herbivores would definitely benefit to be violent. Like hippos today.

[steady rock]

hippos can be violent because almost nothing is standing up to them besides rare ocasions or if your a elephant/rhino

[tough parcel]

Because I cannot be bothered to retype

Ceratopsians and co are very much not the largest animals (Compared to their local predators)

[steady rock]

the only dinosaur we know who had beef with everyone was allosaurus

[tough parcel]

No because that's BS

"Wow, this animal with thousands of specimens shows an abnormal amount of injuries compared to the animals with 3 specimens!!!!!!"

[steady rock]

cant even make jokes no more

i dont know what regurgitating means 😦

[tough parcel]

????????? What was the bad word??????????

[steady rock]

oh the bot has been having issues with moderating words, just check PoT chat

[light osprey]

Gualicho always being naughty

[iron halo]

The bot purges any message with 🇰ill

[stuck chasm]

We are actively investigating the Autobot flagging community user's messages at this time. We apologize for any inconvenience caused by this and thank you for your understanding!

[tough parcel]

I AM GOING INSANE, IT IS ONLY MEEEEEEEEEEE

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/e-there-is-nothing-we-can-do-gif-1915861908606230748

[tough parcel]

Wait, I have an idea

[light osprey]

Real

[compact leaf]

the weight of your sins coming back to crush you

[steady rock]

what falcon was saying was , jokes are only funny when they are obvious, not the same message that has been repeated unironically for weeks throughout the paleo-community

[light osprey]

Oh hey I just noticed this was sparked by a herbivores mean comment

[tough parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/jeremy-clarkson-sometimes-my-genius-almost-frightening-driving-car-ride-gif-16463163

[sullen cairn]

get real

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/hippo-fight-lion-vs-hippo-lion-lions-gif-13295737

[steady rock]

why cant tyrannosaurus and edmonto choose love instead of war

[light osprey]

It’s crazy how the Hell Creek was just like this

[steady rock]

was there more torosaurus or trike's in hell creek

[tough parcel]

Crying at how the Edmont shows the rex got more bites in, but the rex has a single slash on the thigh and it crumpled

[steady rock]

you can stab someone 28 times but it they tear a ligament in your leg your crippled

[tough parcel]

There is a bite on the Edmont's neck and thigh 😭

[light osprey]

Merely flesh wounds

[tough parcel]

Clearly the rex's bite force was not enough to pierce the Edmontosaurus' thick hide...

[light osprey]

Much like how a Lion seldom penetrates more than surface level of a Hippo’s thick skin

[steady rock]

a edmontosaurus ate my dog

[tough parcel]

Sorry, I was feeling peckish

[steady rock]

https://tenor.com/view/roblox-angry-foxmel-pizza-gif-23786792

[crude latch]

💀

[crude latch]

A dog ate my edmontosaurus

[compact leaf]

practically the same dynamic as any mesozoic ecosystem nevermind the fact that both parties are built drastically different than modern animals

this is why I like big sauropods the dynamic isn’t complex or clouded by modern examples, being able to step on the local predators has a nice simplicity to it

[light osprey]

Behold, the Serengeti of the Cretaceous

[royal saffron]

Many large herbivores tend to be aggressive. It makes for good survival strategy. Even a modest injury can ultimately be fatal to carnivores

[tough parcel]

So are we gonna ignore the previous messages already sent?

[sour pelican]

One well placed kick could probably at least break ribs, if not shatter them

[compact leaf]

there’s a difference between aggression and desperation, any herbivore will pit up a fight if it’s cornered but it’s not going to go headfirst into a fight it will almost always run if it can

[sullen cairn]

the mighty edmontosaurus....

[white matrix]

The lion and buffalo of the Cretaceous

[compact leaf]

case in point, a cornered eddy is going to fight because that’s it’s only option, but it’s odds are infinitely better if it just runs

[royal saffron]

And Theropods being bipedal are extremely vulnerable to any leg or hip injury. Highly likely to ultimately result in death

[white matrix]

erm some theropods show healing from those injuries

It’s not highly likely to equal death

[compact leaf]

animals like sauropods elephants and hippos can get away with being highly aggressive because they’re twice or more the size of what’s hunting them

[sour pelican]

Big al is one of them right? The Allosaurus with 13(?) different injuries?

[sour pelican]

Carnivores can no longer afford to get that big

[sullen cairn]

with its 2/3rds smaller body, the sheer bulk of the edmontosaurus would easily dispatch the so called "tyrant king"

[royal saffron]

They do, but often those injuries are not fully healed and quite possibly contributed to the animals demise. Dinos aren't different than any other animal in that regard

[sour pelican]

A broken bone takes time to heal. And unfortunately nature doesn't give that to predators.

[sullen cairn]

if a 5t edmontosaurus is crippling tyrannosaurus with its size alone i don't want to imagine what would happen if it was the other way around

[compact leaf]

that’s true, but it doesn’t mean all herbivores or even most of them won’t just run away first

[white matrix]

It’s not as life threatening as saying if leopard or a cheetah broke a leg, I doubt it’d be highly equal to death.

[sullen cairn]

Like by this logic if a rex so much as nudges an edmontosaurus it would die instantly

[royal saffron]

I don't think you realize how small a percentage of Theropods likely survived to adulthood. 75% of all raptorial birds die in their first year, and they are essentially full-grown in months

[sullen cairn]

Tyrannosaurs and their infamously high pre-adult mortality rates

[compact leaf]

this broken word filter is becoming increasingly frustrating

[sullen cairn]

As opposed to their, y’know, adult mortality rates

[light osprey]

A Lion would be lucky to weigh half of what a Hippo weighs

[sullen cairn]

Why can’t I say words

[compact leaf]

broken word filter, it’s gotten all of us a few times

[sullen cairn]

Anyways hadrosaurs were aggressive because tyrannosaurs are made of paper

[sour pelican]

And that's not even including the mortality rates before hatching.

Hadrosaurus could have been aggressive because they had weight to throw around

[light osprey]

Edmontosaurus raiding the Tyrannosaurus nest…

[ancient crystal]

I had someone say to me entirely seriously that barsboldia would easily cripple a rex after looking at this skeletal and interpreting bars as larger than Scotty

[compact leaf]

why can’t we accept that ecology is nuanced and highly variable, is that so much to ask? stupid question

[sullen cairn]

Bars is like the size of a normal rex lmao

[compact leaf]

most of them didn’t in comparison to the local predator, a few sure but by and large running would be their safest option

[light osprey]

Wait a minute… is this… the Serengeti of the Cretaceous?

[ancient crystal]

Thought bars was around 5 tons

[sullen cairn]

Anyways most tyrannosaurs were like maybe half the mass of the absolute largest local hadrosaurs and even then almost all of them could look said hadrosaurs in the eye

[royal saffron]

Shangtungosaurs were absolutely monstrous animals and dwarfed the large tyrannosaurs

[white matrix]

Maybe some Patagonian place

[ancient crystal]

Hm, yes, because thats the hadrosaur in that diagram

[white matrix]

Wait what’s the Yellowstone of the Mesozoic 😳

[sullen cairn]

That applies to shantungosaurus, 1.5 species of parasaurolophus, and that’s about it

[thin spoke]

Im pretty sure you are right

[sullen cairn]

Bars is like 7.5t scaling with the saurolophus gdi iirc

[compact leaf]

it's right around there, I don't think you can feasibly get it above 8 tons

[light osprey]

Seems you’ve forgotten the towering Patagonian Hadrosaurs

[royal saffron]

It's also hard to say just how big some of the Hadrosaurs could get due to lack of specimens of many types

[sour pelican]

True.

[sullen cairn]

that works both ways

[light osprey]

The 15 tonne Tyrannosaurus

[sullen cairn]

that is okay because abelisaurids deserve it

[light osprey]

The puny Quilmesaurus trampled daily by massive Bonapartesaurus

[royal saffron]

It does, but T Rex is probably one of the better sampled large dinos

[ancient crystal]

Well, then I stand corrected

[white matrix]

Are the buffalos stupid??

[compact leaf]

I'll never forgive you for what you did to big paul

[ancient crystal]

How many specimens attributed to edmontosaurus are there?

[bright veldt]

hundreds

[light osprey]

They tolerate the presence of the Lions

[sullen cairn]

same with edmontosaurus and from that i'm pretty sure i can list on one hand the number of specimens larger than your average rex

[ancient crystal]

Compared to around 45 for tyrannosaurus right?

Or is that wildly incorrect?

[tough parcel]

P sure there's ~30 described specimens (Or at least, ~30 notable specimens)

[light osprey]

The 5 tonne Tyrannosaurus….

[royal saffron]

A good number if Anatosaurus and Anatotitan specimens are included in the genus

[sullen cairn]

in my defence i wasn't even planning on doing that at first

[white matrix]

Surely they must be dumb right? Only a few lions 🤭

[compact leaf]

assuming x-rex is edmonto and not the secret monster saurolophine we all want (I find this unlikely)

[sullen cairn]

becky's is the one being contested rn

[ancient crystal]

Carr used 45 in his paper about "nanotyrannus" from 4 years ago iirc so I know its at least that

[compact leaf]

oh my bad you're right

[light osprey]

Only one specimen of fat Lancian Saurolophine is being contested as belonging to a distinct taxon? Hmmmm……

[tough parcel]

😭 Then why did you ask if it's in Carr's paper

[ancient crystal]

Because I didn't know if there were more

[tough parcel]

Crying! (There are likely more, but inaccessible or not known about widely)

[compact leaf]

hiding in serenos dungeon

[ancient crystal]

Wait, sorry there is at least 46

Because Longrich used one specimen that Carr didn't in the paper that shall not be named

[white matrix]

Hiding in Ibrahim’s basement

[compact leaf]

ibrahim has the cretaceous african brachiosaurid I've been hounding after for eons I can feel it