paleontology

[silver canopy]

Omg I can't take a-z animal blog seriously

However, given the fact that the spinosaurus frequently hunts dinosaurs along the edges of waterways, they may end up winning in a fight against the mosasaurus. Additionally, the mosasaurus needs to breathe air in order to survive, which means that the spinosaurus could indeed drown the mosasaurus with little effort.

[elfin pulsar]

Lmao this has to be sarcasm

[silver canopy]

Nope..

They..Actually Think That

[elfin pulsar]

No shot someone with any form of intelligence genuinely thinks spino could easily drown mosasaurus

Doesn’t that also imply they think spino could hold it’s breathe for notably longer than mosa

[sullen cairn]

ᵒᵏᵃʸ ᵇᵘᵗ ˢᵖᶦⁿᵒˢᵃᵘʳᵘˢ ᵒᵖᵖᵒʳᵗᵘⁿᶦˢᵗᶦᶜᵃˡˡʸ ʰᵘⁿᵗᶦⁿᵍ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ᵏᵉᵐ ᵏᵉᵐ ˡᵉᵖᵗᵒᶜˡᵉᶦᵈᶦᵈ ˢᵒᵘⁿᵈˢ ᵏᶦⁿᵈᵃ ᶜᵒᵒˡ

[silver canopy]

A Mosa Could Probably Crunch On A Rex Crossing A Small Channel Between Islands If Desperate, A Spino With Its Face Two Inches From The Waters Surface Would Be An Easy Meal

Also I Mosa Could Litteraly Thrash Around In The Spinos Mouth, Probably Snapping Its Pitiful Dino Neck

[elfin pulsar]

Yeah I was about to say a mosa thrashing would be devastating

[sullen cairn]

also spinosaurus didn't even live with mosasaurus

[elfin pulsar]

The “little effort” part is what gets me

[silver canopy]

Yes.. But These Idiots decided to pit two species that didn't coexist With on and other in a dum fight

an extremely close battle between a spinosaurus and a mosasaurus. There’s no way for us to call a fight like this, given just how unique both of these dinosaurs were

...This Makes Me Unreasonably Angry

[sullen cairn]

why are we using a-z animal blog again

[elfin pulsar]

Lmaoooooo

[silver canopy]

Aaaand they say spino was bigger then Rex

(Its way lighter)

[silver canopy]

Because, I Like Poking Holes In Their Dum Arguments

[sullen cairn]

kinda shooting fish in a barrel

[silver canopy]

Omg this is the picture they use for Rex compared to spino

[sullen cairn]

ugh

[silver canopy]

WHO IS WRITING THESE

[sullen cairn]

probably some unpaid intern

[elfin pulsar]

I love how the spino can completely tip toe over the trike

[silver canopy]

Help pls

I'm Taking Their Dumb Quiz

[elfin pulsar]

All of the above, duh

[silver canopy]

THEY CALLED ANKY A STEGOSAUR

[tulip whale]

I love the old funky dino quizzes. They get sooo many things wrong it’s laughable

[silver canopy]

this one isn't even that old I'm actually dieing

I actually need medical attention

I'm actually bloody dieing

[tulip whale]

What are they saying now 😭

[silver canopy]

700 Dinosaur Species..

I would tell yall more but I can't see thru all the ads

[viscid surge]

You KNOW the website is safe when there’s more ads than site

[tulip whale]

Ong the more ads the more trust worthy

[blissful crescent]

bro trike solos all ez

[sudden wind]

What horrible skeletals tho. Here are some better ones.

As for which one would be the fastest, I think it can be quite well estimated for Mosasaurus because of its fish/shark like anatomy, but for Kronosaurus it'd be different given it is a propelling itself with its pectoral and hind fins. I guess you could find a way to do it by using similar methods on penguins, sea turtles and seals.

Though, you need to create soft tissue reconstructions which can vary from one or another (though I think this is the most agreed for Plesiosaurs as evidenced by Mauriciosaurus, a Polycotylidae). Then, the limb arrangement is also to take in account as it may modify the shape, which shows off what sort of movements these reptiles were doing (https://pure.manchester.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/216123306/FULL_TEXT.PDF).

[sudden wind]

Acresuchus skull, a caiman from Miocene Brazil.

Posted it because I just saw someone trying to do one in #modding.

If yall want the paper, here it is : https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330734002_A_new_caimanine_Crocodylia_Alligatoroidea_species_from_the_Solimoes_Formation_of_Brazil_and_the_phylogeny_of_Caimaninae

A life reconstruction would sort of look like this.

[fallow plank]

Ah yes I love it when my velociraptor is kaiju sized

[silver canopy]

Oh BTW Correct Answer was 25-30 feet

[fallow plank]

[silver canopy]

I should sue for misinformation >:[

but I doubt I could tho

[gray ruin]

I love it artistically but still looks a bit crushed and deformed here

[white matrix]

Where is Perucetus ranked on heaviest animals ever

[chilly knot]

nah

[white matrix]

Dang ok

[clever sable]

I think it's somewhere in the top 10-15 idk

Maybe top 5? But I'm not sure

[white matrix]

Idk either everyone says different stuff

[stiff osprey]

Are you asking about maximum size or average?

[white matrix]

🥲

[sterile trail]

This envokes pain

[sterile trail]

Yes

[candid ledge]

@white matrix Please note that this channel is for the discussion of past and present paleontological discoveries, scientific news, and depictions of prehistoric creatures in media in relation to palaeontology.
If you want to ask general questions about the game, you can go to #path-of-titans or if you need any specific help with any issues, you can go to our #help channels

[white matrix]

In size and weight who would be bigger, tarbosaurus batar or zuchyngtyranus?

[chilly knot]

Tarbosaurus or some jaw bones🔥🔥🗣️

[light osprey]

Tarbosaurus, new good cranial material can be estimated to be relatively large, compared to whatever Zhuchengtyrannus has

[woeful falcon]

any numbers to those estimates

[light osprey]

Larger than PIN 551-1 🤷‍♂️

[woeful falcon]

perfect

[bright veldt]

Zhuchengtyrannus is a bit of mystery. Right now, all that is known is a jawbone and some undescribed vertebrae.

And it is currently unknown whether it is closer related to Tarbosaurus or Tyrannosaurus, which is important given the two are quite differently built in the context we're talking about.

It's why size estimates for the taxa range from as small as 8 meters and 3 tons to large tyrannosaurus sizes.

I personally say it's tarbo-sized and be done with it till we know more.

[stiff osprey]

Agreed, the 8 meter 3 ton estimates are silly but so are the Sue sized ones

[sullen cairn]

brazilian abelisaurid size distribution is a lot funnier than it should be (it's missing the serra da galga one but it's more stupid this way)

[heady thunder]

The big one doesnt even look like an abelisaurid, it looks like a weird megalosaur tyranosaur hybrid.

[bright veldt]

What's that individual?

[sullen cairn]

URC 44-R

[bright veldt]

Ah ok

[tranquil quartz]

What are the size estimates for Sivatherium?

[little mauve]

Back when I was a kid (old) the dino books usually described abelisaurs as weird megalosaur tyrannosaur hybrids more or less, before they really knew what they were obv

[sullen cairn]

Back when indosuchus was called a tyrannosaur

[heady thunder]

They read my mind with timetravel.

[little mauve]

Exactly! @heady thunder lol yup I guess so

[sullen cairn]

This gives ~1250kg from 2016
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4785933/

[tranquil quartz]

Thank you

[olive holly]

What it Anky could go inside its armor like a shell like a turtle?

[clever sable]

It couldn't

[stiff osprey]

Doesn't have the joints in its neck or limbs to do that

[olive holly]

Would be a fun thought though lol

[stiff osprey]

OP please nerf ~tyrannosaurids

[little mauve]

Turtle shells are super weird & unique too

Whoops, dunno why it attached the image as a file

[storm heron]

The big one's skull is based on the elongated/outdated version of Abelisaurus' skull.

[covert lintel]

nah, that requires a lot of specialization to be achievable. it's generally easier to just put more armour on your weak bits than evolve to retract your weak bits into your armour

[sullen cairn]

I know abelisaurus is missing most of the right side of the skull but can you really make it much shorter with what is preserved?

like if it were any shorter wouldn't that just be crushing preserved material

[noble ridge]

Did the Carno have lips?

[covert lintel]

yeah, most likely.
generally speaking, most non-avian dinosaurs probably had lips

[sullen cairn]

no reason they wouldn't

[scenic flame]

Ankylosaur armour isnt anything like tortoise armor, they're better compared to crocodiles, their armor wasn't an impenetrable shield, but was fast healing and essentially a shock absorber to protect their vital organs etc

[storm heron]

You can.

You won't make it as short as Carnotaurus but shorter than depicted above is possible.

[sullen cairn]

wouldn't that smush the back of the nasal

[sullen cairn]

I guess you could do something like this but then a preserved part of the nasal goes bye bye

[storm heron]

Hmm, good point.

[sullen cairn]

that said it does look way more aesthetically appealing when it's shorter

[storm heron]

It does, I remember seeing this in the Theropoda 1.0 server and that a person commented on how the current recon of Abelisaurus' skull is outdated (iirc it was Franoys).

Also it was suggested in a certain paper that I do not remember atm.

[sullen cairn]

I wouldn't be surprised considering how much of an outlier it is among the clade, I'm just not sure how one would make it shorter
and yeah grillo and delcourt 2016 mention the length may be off but they don't elaborate on how or anything like that

[sullen cairn]

if the nasal and frontal aren't originally articulated you might be able to get away with tilting the rostrum downwards a bit

makes it a good 5cm or so shorter and looks a tad more normal

[storm heron]

Hmm, yea

[sullen cairn]

cleaned up a bit cause I just like how it looks

[pearl briar]

what is utahraptor's most up-to-date length & weight?

[sullen cairn]

5.2m or something like that and ~470kg

[still prairie]

Whats the most up to date measurement of Monolophosaurus?

[sullen cairn]

5.5m

maybe a tad more

~475kg

[astral kelp]

Mono is that heavy damn?

[still prairie]

Also utah is small now Jesus

[viscid surge]

It’s still big enough to rip you apart 💀 5m would make it the largest terrestrial carnivore (by length) alive today

[sudden wind]

Ankylosaurian armor and turtle shells are not comparable in any sort of circumstances, minus having a defensing advantage. But yet the way they act are quite different.

Ankylosaurian armors were formed by bony plates called osteoderms. These weren't fused together and so didn't form a "shell". On the other hand, turtles derived their ribcage and osteoderms into a complete structure surrounding their whole torso.
The way the body is elaborated also does not allow Ankylosaurs to retract their heads like some turtles do (not all turtles can do it). Turtles have long weirdly flexible necks.

[woeful falcon]

Turtles are WILD for this

[light osprey]

It’s been more robust ever since Scott Hartman examined the material

[tough parcel]

Still pretty big lol

I have definitely not used a tiny girl to make it seem bigger 😎

[heady thunder]

That guy is still 6ft tall and like half a ton.

[clever sable]

Omg is that Dakotaraptor the most real dinosaur ever

[tough parcel]

So true!

[fallow citrus]

🐢

[light osprey]

Real and true

[sterile trail]

This makes me feel uncomfortable

[light osprey]

Does anyone know if Titanosaur material was found in the James Hill Island Formations?

[compact leaf]

there is indeterminate sauropod material there but it's really hard to actually find anything about it

the material might also be campanian instead of maastrichtian, there's pretty much just the collection record that states it as 'lithostrotia indet.' and nothing else about it

[light osprey]

Oh that’s just lovely. Why these Sauropods always the problematic ones

[regal relic]

https://tenor.com/view/kaperoo-prehistoric-planet-david-attenborough-tyrannosaurus-rex-hans-zimmer-gif-25286136

[compact leaf]

it's like I always say, sauropods are pain

[light osprey]

Well, I’m still interested in reconstructing this Antarctic environment, so I guess, what would be an average length for a Lithostrotian

[compact leaf]

sometimes I like to think I'll specialize in mammals and make my life easy, and then I discard that thought because someone needs to study sauropods and put an end to the madness

[compact leaf]

if you give me some time I can get a better number for you but most of them fall between 10 and 20 meters long, I know that's a huge range but it's a big messy group, alamosaurus is also in there right now for some reason making it the largest in the group but it's position is subject to change

[light osprey]

I’ll take the lower 50% of those lengths, I don’t see the Antarctic Titanosaurs being huge

[stiff osprey]

I'll see if there are any measurements for them

[astral kelp]

[stiff osprey]

The caudal centrum is 16 cm long, which suggests 14-19 meters using saltasauroid skeletals

[light osprey]

Oh, so quite possibly rather large

[stiff osprey]

It's really average for a titanosaur, the boring range as i call it

[compact leaf]

by lithostrotian standards that is on the larger end

I took numbers from the ones I could actually find length estimates for quickly and the majority fall right around 10m long give or take 2-3m, there's a few island dwarfs, and there's 3 or 4 that fall in that 14-19m range like the antarctic one, only 3 hit 20m long and one of those is alamosaurus which might end up somewhere else

I'm also seeing that larramendi had an absolute field day downsizing titanosaurs in 2020

[light osprey]

He’s a menace

[stiff osprey]

yeah, and a lot of his takes don't make sense. i mean 8.5m long Uberabatitan? we have juvenile specimens larger than that

also, lognkosaurs are lithostrotians in all recent phylogenies, which puts a dozen lithostrotians above 20m and 3 above 30m

[compact leaf]

it depends on what you put in lognkosauria, I tried to leave out the ones with really shaky taxonomy and those are the ones that fall into that big size range, patagotitan puertasaurus and argent all breach 30m depending on the estimates but lognkosauria ends up outside lithostrotia sometimes

I hate titanosaur phylogeny it's horrible

[compact leaf]

yeah some of them are definitely wonky

don't get me wrong some of his downsizes are definitely justified but there's some really weird stuff going on with some of them

on the subject though has anyone been doing work with argentinosaurus lately? any of the really big titanosaurs for that matter

[frosty anvil]

so wait if tyrannosaurs and ceratopsians are rivals (triceratops and tyrannosaurus, albertaceratops and albertosaurus)
then what is the rival to tarbo

[bright veldt]

They weren’t rivals. Tyrannosaurs ate ceratopsians. Even then said tyrannosaurs preferred hadrosaurs. There has only been one true ceratopsid recovered from Asia and it didn’t coexist with tarbo.

[sullen cairn]

I don’t think albertosaurus even lived with albertaceratops

[heady thunder]

The biggest crime of the paleoworld

[sullen cairn]

incrassatus maybe being contemporary doesn’t count because it’s a couple undiagnostic teeth and nobody cares about it

[light osprey]

I have Mandela effect I was almost certain they shared a formation together, but I checked and they most certainly aren’t…. Welll unless

[sullen cairn]

incrassatus being Judith river group or whatever doesn’t count

[heady thunder]

Put the fck under albertaceratops to fix the timeline.

[light osprey]

I meant… lumping certain genera together

[steady rock]

would marine reptiles bloat and float to the surface when they died, and would they explode?

[viscid surge]

If left untouched I believe so. Although you have to wonder if they would even last in once piece long enough to go through that

[steady rock]

i mean, whales do

[viscid surge]

Yea, huge whales do, in an overall colder climate with much smaller fauna, half of which has been fished out anyway. I have no doubt mosasaurs and things could though

[steady rock]

ooh, i never thought about that actually

[still prairie]

Apparently i heard a fringe theory that mosasaurs were venomous Doubt it was true but is it?

[pearl briar]

his name is Freddy Fazbear

[woven vortex]

aur aur aur auraur aur aur auraur aur aur

[steady rock]

its har

[white matrix]

Made me chuckle like a crazy mfer i am but yeah i suppose they would act the same as whales do since its the gas build up inside the rotting body or smthing that causes it to float for a while then probs explode and gift local fauna with free meat chunks something like a piñata

[astral kelp]

Arctodus simus can get weigh bigger than just 950

[pearl briar]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-zeb-orrelios-what-how-how-how-is-that-possible-gif-25294297

[astral kelp]

Iirc 1100-1200

[pearl briar]

1.1-1.2 tons omg that's just crazy for a bear weight

[astral kelp]

Wait till you realize paraentelodon could have been from 1300-2000kg although the 2000kg is based on tooth scaling which isn’t reliable

[pearl briar]

oh god...

https://tenor.com/view/thats-just-insane-barton-bartonologist-thats-crazy-thats-mind-blowing-gif-22199011

[white matrix]

Guys I think we need to reevaluate what we know about Triceratops

[clever sable]

Bro uses reddit

[mossy anchor]

Im going to the dinosaur national monument in utah today, and i was curious if anyone could send any articles on recent discoveries for dinosaurs that lived in utah. Thanks :)

[compact leaf]

it's not a recent discovery but there's some work being done on brachiosaurus material right now, it probably won't come out until next year but it's still cool to know about

[bright veldt]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jmor.21627

A new study looking at the hyoid throat bones of the American lion and smilodon to see what sounds they would make. Turns out, smilodon could not roar, but it had a very deep voice and could purr!

(The American lion sounded like any other big cat which is no surprise)

[small geyser]

I can imagine Smilo having a much deeper version of a puma’s voice.

[stiff osprey]

Pumas sound like a woman being murdered, so Smilodon would sound like... a big burly man being murdered?

[small geyser]

Maybe.

The only other large non-pantherine still in existence is the cheetah iirc which mainly makes chirps and squeaks.

[bright veldt]

You live in La Brea 50 thousand years ago and you hear a stock man screaming sound effect in the distance

[small geyser]

The first Wilhelm Scream.

[novel atlas]

https://twitter.com/dhruvfranklin/status/1693625427321926007?s=20

Dhruv Franklin (@dhruvfranklin)

This is a finger painting I recently did on my phone of some American Mastodon. It initially started as a study of a beautiful pond I came across while hiking in Vermont. I can’t help but imagine the extinct animals that once lived in these forests whenever I’m hiking.

Likes

344

Twitter · Aug 21, 2023, 2:05 PM

[white matrix]

"Wtf is this"

My worst bleeping nightmare.

[heady thunder]

Monoceratops be like

[thorn gazelle]

I think maybe it’s possible that dinosaurs never existed.

[nocturne gazelle]

At least he embraces the 🤡

Jokes aside if you had changed that phrase to "Our depictions of dinosaurs could be wrong" then I would likely agree. But the bones came from somewhere.

[clever sable]

Yeahhhhhh no, the evidence of them existing is incontrovertible, plus we still have dinosaurs living today as birds

[nocturne gazelle]

^ True that. Dinosaurs are birds so even if the depictions of extinct dinosaurs are incorrect, we still have live ones today.

[thorn gazelle]

Birds aren’t dinosaurs

Birds are birds

[clever sable]

Birds are dinosaurs.......... This is like....... Common knowledge

They are theropod dinosaurs

[elfin pulsar]

Why are you taking such an obvious bait

[clever sable]

Because

[deft sigil]

This channel is for educational purposes. Please do not post off-topic subjects or troll in here. Refer to all our pinned guidelines in every channel you plan to use.

[wary heath]

do we even know if this thing was a vertabrate?

It's a belief held by evolutionists.

[deft sigil]

A reminder that if we cannot remain on topic for this channel, or civil with each other, mutes will be handed out. Refer to our #rules.

[woeful falcon]

just for clarification for those who might not know, birds evolved from dinosaurs and are dinosaurs themselves. They're theropods. Two of the most apparent examples of this evidence are feathers, the trademark trait of birds, present in dinosaurs, and the wish bone. Birds have wish bones and today only they have them. Theropod dinosaurs did as well. Tyrannosaurus rex has a wish bone.

[tulip whale]

Do you think that dinosaurs were like colourful? I’m always seen beige and forest greens but imagine they were actually walking around with flamingo pink feathers/scales

[wary heath]

They could have

[bright veldt]

It depends on the animal and their lifestyle. We got some ideas for the colors of certain dinos but we don’t know for most.

[wary heath]

We can agree to disagree.

[stiff osprey]

There are a few biological rules for coloring that we can reasonably apply to dinosaurs, flamingo pink for example is specific to derived bird feathers and only under a specific diet at that. Early feathers like those most dinosaurs possessed would probably not have a wide range of pigments like modern birds have, according to recent studies

[tough parcel]

(Keep in mind, we might have problems predicting dinosaur coloration...and random beat me 😔 that too)

[wary heath]

we know that microraptor had irredescent feathering

[bright veldt]

There’s also the fact that the pigmentation needed to appear a certain color, and the energy for to produce said pigment, gets greater the larger an animal is. It’s why you don’t see elephants with color and I doubt most dinosaurs over a few tons would’ve been much but plain browns, grays, and blacks. Maybe small patches of color here n there.

[stiff osprey]

Chances are dinosaur feathers (just the feathers, not the scales or skin) would be colored more like mammal hairs than bird feathers

[woeful falcon]

you can disagree, but when you consider that today only birds have feathers and wish bones, and dinosaurs had feathers and wish bones, well that didn't happen on accident.

[wary heath]

This is the most accurate dinosaur reconstruction we have rn.

[stiff osprey]

Blues, beiges/faint yellows, and rust red also would probably be common colors. I guess you could consider rust red as brown but to me they're distinct

[tulip whale]

Ahhh ok. I guess it wouldn’t make sense if they all had bright colouration. They obviously have to be able to properly camouflage into their respective environments.

[bright veldt]

E

[woeful falcon]

I agree with scan on that one

[stiff osprey]

E

[viscid surge]

Almost 100% confirmed for some, so likely we can assume it’s true anyway

[tulip whale]

Oh cool!

[stiff osprey]

Caihong my beloved

Caihong is an interesting case where the feathers aren't actually strikingly colored, they just reflect light in a specific way so that the color changes depending on how it's illuminated

[thorn gazelle]

Okay, so I’m not sure why you decided to mute me when my question was literally centered around paleontology. I was wondering how birds are dinosaurs and I guess that triggered you? I’d appreciate it if you didn’t make false assumptions that i was trolling (since that’s probably why the mute was handed out). If it was for not being on topic (which I don’t see how it wasn’t) then I’d like an explanation for that.

[woeful falcon]

who needs colorful pigmentation when you can just be iridescent

[woeful falcon]

here's an example of evidence pennywise

[tulip whale]

Kinda like pigeons

[stiff osprey]

afaik Borealopelta is the most 'colorful' dinosaur we have with its red and white
(almost typed dragon there. freudian slip?)

[thorn gazelle]

Thanks. I’ll read this.

[woeful falcon]

there's a lot to connect birds to dinosaurs beyond those two simple things. There are a lot of dinosaurs that quite simply resemble birds, very strongly.

[wary heath]

The idea that birds are not dinosaurs is not a commonly held belief here and deemed silly so that's probably why.

[thorn gazelle]

Kinda ridiculous tbh. How can someone mod a dinosaur centered server and not take questions like this serious? Not everyone knows everything about paleontology.

[stiff osprey]

In the time I've been here there have been a ton of people trying to bait with seemingly harmless questions (the ''dinosaurs weren't real'' meme alone popped up a half dozen times), so the concern is valid

[woeful falcon]

It's also generally presumed to be common knowledge in these circles. People might know they're related to dinosaurs or that they even are dinosaurs themselves, but might not know why that is

[stiff osprey]

anyway, a neat post on dinosaur coloration: https://hummingdinosaur.wordpress.com/2018/07/30/ecology-of-colour-zoology-for-paleoartists-part-iii/

[astral kelp]

Todays the day I understood what “Macrothorax” meant in maips full name

[thorn gazelle]

Still doesn’t justify an unjustified mute. As a mod he should be more professional.

[bright veldt]

Anyone whose here for any length of time knows how stupid the moderation is. It’s not news to anyone. Just letting you know now rather than later.

[woeful falcon]

that's how they do things here. you learn to dodge it.

[light oxide]

Here's another article that Neeco found that pertains to dinosaur coloration, specifically how megatheropods may have been pigmented:

http://markwitton-com.blogspot.com/2023/01/can-studies-of-living-animal-colour.html?m=1

[hoary jay]

Wouldn’t the most accurate be of the ankylosorid that we have like a full skeleton of?

[wary heath]

No because with psittacosaurus, we know it’s coloration and even how it’s cloaca looked like

[hoary jay]

That’s a weird thing to know about, but interesting

[woeful falcon]

Idk what ankylosaur you're referring to but psittaco are very well preserved

[tough parcel]

Probably Borealopelta

[hoary jay]

I swear there was this ankylo that was stuck in mud or something and it’s entire back was preserved,

[wary heath]

That’s the one

How was it so preserved after all this time

[clever sable]

Bro what 💀, that's interesting but also like..... Super weird

[stiff osprey]

Borealopelta is more intact 3 dimensionally, but is missing its whole back half and legs. Psittacosaurus is complete, but got pancaked

So which one is better preserved is kinda debatable

[nocturne gazelle]

Were there any parasitic dinosaurs?

[compact leaf]

it's possible that some were brood parasites but we have no evidence of parasitism in any dinosaurs, it would be really hard to prove if any of them were anyway though

kleptoparasitism is basically a guarantee for theropods but that doesn't really count

[nocturne gazelle]

Brood parasites would be interesting. Thanks for the info.

[nocturne gazelle]

So given the fact that Maiasauras name means "good mother", what is the evidence to support that it was in fact a good parent? Was it unique in its parental care or were most dinosaurs actually as parental as it? What are other notably good parents within the dinosaur world?

[compact leaf]

the evidence comes mostly from trackways and layers of vegetation on the nests showing a prolonged period of caring for the nest even after the babies hatched, the next big example that comes to mind is oviraptor dying while guarding the nest

it's hard to say what other dinosaurs were good parents but we know that sauropods at least seem to have a sort of shift depending on the growth stage, hatchlings and infants were on their own because the parents are too big to care for them (hence why they laid so many eggs, sea turtle strategy), but once they reached a certain size we see in trackways that they traveled with adults and in large groups there's even tracks showing that the smaller individuals were kept in the middle

[nocturne gazelle]

Interesting. Especially that part about sauropods. "Sorry little dudes, I can hardly even see you let alone know where you are to feed you come back once you're bigger".

[stiff osprey]

In the case of sauropods it likely varied massively from species to species when exactly the youngsters could join a herd. Some apparently joined at only a couple years old and under 10% the size of the adults, others didn't until they were of breeding age themselves

[pearl briar]

are there any giant sauropod giga coexist with if it's not argentino?

[light osprey]

The remains of the large Titanosaur are known from the Candeleros. It’s quite large from what we can tell

[pearl briar]

any penguin that is larger than Palaeeudyptes klekowski?
or did Palaeeudyptes klekowski still hold the "Largest Penguin" title?

[tiny holly]

Late response but that's something I wonder about, because mammals aren't really a great reference point. Mammal pigmentation as a whole is incredibly limited compared to pigmentation in other animals, iirc another consequence of the nocturnal bottleneck. While I doubt larger dinosaurs would have been particularly colourful and striking, I do wonder what they would have been capable of by virtue of not being mammals with mammal limitations

Not perfect because they're nowhere near as large as big dinosaurs but an interesting analogy could be comparing how comparatively plain komodo dragons are to basically all other monitors. Or how caiman and often much more contrasted and striking than larger crocodilians

[covert lintel]

wrt larger crocodilians and monitor lizards being lower-contrast than their smaller relatives, some part of it could be that smaller animals - being more vulnerable to predators - experience more pressure to develop and maintain camouflage, and so have more complex patterns, but that's probably not The Only Reason Ever.
's generally really interesting to think about the colours and patterns of prehistoric animals

im not entirely sure why i read "something i wonder about", the thing being wondered about, and then a different thought, and decided i needed to give my opinion on that different thought. but well my opinion's there anyway i guess.

[tiny holly]

imagine what we mammals could have had if our ancestors weren't dumb little night freaks (affectionate)

[white matrix]

Plz tell me u dondt mispronounce 'klekowski' and pronounce it as 'klekovski' 😭😭
Im polish and this would hurt me so much 😭

[pearl briar]

uhh no
i pronounce it "klekowski"
simple

[white matrix]

That hurts me so much as a polish person 😭😭

[elfin pulsar]

What’s the correct spelling of it?

I’m curious cuz I wanna know how id pronounce it lol

[white matrix]

Dont think theres even one just googled it and its mostly 'klekowskii' and one 'klekowski' so dunno about that but it just looks so polish to me id pronounce it as 'klekovski'

[west coral]

No, there was a new fella in February this year, Kumimanu fordycei

[undone parcel]

Limaysaurus but if you want bigger theres Andesaurus and another undescribed one

[bright veldt]

What I said here has nothing to do with how any animals perceive color and is a universal rule though

[steady rock]

you know how people call baby dogs puppys, could you call a adolescent rex nanotyrannus?

[bright veldt]

No

[heady thunder]

Thatd be funny.

[steady rock]

aw why?

[cloud dagger]

’Adolescent rex’ is just fine

[tiny holly]

I know, I mean what colours they present still, not what colours they see. Mammals simply seem to not really be capable of expressing more complicated colouration like we see in other vertebrates. Like, the sole mammal I can think of off the top of my head with any blue colouration that isn't just glorified grey is the blue on a few different primates like mandrills and snub faced monkeys. Not to mention a complete lack of any green mammals whatsoever, despite that being common in reptiles. Pattern wise mammals are usually all pretty straightfoward and simple too, even mammals with more nuanced complicated patterns like leopards can't hold a candle to how busy other vertebrate patterns get.

[steady rock]

are we talking about mammals coloration and how they seemingly can have complicated patterns and colors like other animals like birds?

[tiny holly]

Yeah, just musing on the fact that while large dinosaurs were probably pretty neutral looking, large modern mammals such as elephants are a tricky comparison because mammals just don't express colours and patterns the way reptiles do

[covert lintel]

yeah now that i think about it there's... not a whole lot of mammals with the incredibly complex cryptic colouration seen on some reptiles, especially smallish ground-dwelling birds. weird. why'd we evolve like that? (< rhetorical, but if anyone has an answer: please)

[tiny holly]

Skin is probably a significant limiting factor here, lotta mammals are very skin-forward (aka us) and even in reptiles skin is usually pretty bare. That plus I think fur/hair just doesn't support what stuff like feathers and scales have going on where a single feather/scale can have a whole bunch happening on it. Fur/hair is at most just like... tipped. Maybe gradient with a tip if you're feeling fancy. But it is still weird to me that more mammals dont have very hectic busy stripes because that is still theoretically achievable. There's plenty of mammals with stripes and spots, just none of them go as wild with it?

But at least colour wise iirc it does indeed have to do with mammals generally having less impressive vision due to being nocturnal throughout the mesozoic. There's not really any benefit to being flashy, bright and complicated when its dark and you can hardly see each other anyway.

Also probably worth noting, that there are exceptions to the whole "big mammals are drab" thing. Minke whales are comparative in size to elephants and display extraordinarily striking patterns by large mammal standards. And Bryde's/Eden's whales are even bigger but have surprisingly bright pink throats

Also indian elephants can get pretty freaky with it, although in their case iirc its a degenerative thing just like going grey is with us.

[covert lintel]

tbf sometimes hairs have a stripe on 'em in addition to being tipped, if i'm remembering right (thinking about cat patterns...)

but yeah they do tend to be pretty simple. and also, yeah, afaik you're right that there's still room for fancy patterns, because even if you can't cram it all onto a few hairs, if you have a good amount of short (or maybe long, but it gets a bit hard to see the pattern) hairs you can just put different stuff on each of the hairs and voila, you've got room for all sorts of fancy speckles and stripes. but it's just... not a thing ??? closest i can think of is ticked (wild-type) tabby cats, and that's less of a Fancy Speckles And Stripes thing and more "hey guys check out how hard i can disrupt my markings *turns them into a fine mist*"

[tiny holly]

yeah, roan horses came to my mind but similarly its not really fine detailed intricate patterning like in reptiles. its just a noise filter lmao

[covert lintel]

mammals love to have mutations that turn their markings into a sort of generalized mist

[vestal slate]

Amphibians are also only covered by skin and have very complicated patterns though, I doubt skin is the limiting factor

[tiny holly]

true i kinda forgot about them, and I guess scaleless mutations in lizards and snakes can still often reflect the pattern their scales would have had fairly well

[little mauve]

Developing elaborate pigmentation & patterning takes biological energy, those pigments must be synthesized in the body or consumed from the environment. The larger an animal gets, the less efficient this process becomes. Imagine you're painting a house: the most vibrant paints are expensive & only come in small tubes whereas a big can of gray, brown, or black paint is as cheap as it gets & you can roll it on very easily. It's not a question of perception, it's a developmental challenge

[compact leaf]

@stiff osprey out of the blue question but you're the best person I can think of to ask, do you know if anyone has scaled argent remains to patagotitan and if they did what happened? I'm sure it has happened but I see argent scaled a lot using smaller relatives so I was curious

[light osprey]

Argentinosaurus shrink incoming 🥵

[astral kelp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55p6rVO0vMQ

[compact leaf]

did the narrator change? I thought it was supposed to be attenborough but maybe I was wrong

some of these look really nice, the others are a bit iffy for me but we'll see how it turns out

[clever sable]

Some of the designs look a little spiky but overall I like it

That's some sorta carcharadontosaurid though (ik those guys aren't spiky, just making an observation)

[astral kelp]

Im going to guess its acrocanthosaurus.

[clever sable]

I hope

[undone parcel]

looks like a microraptoran in the front maybe?

[clever sable]

Also rex is obese again

[undone parcel]

doesnt look as extreme as PHP,then again nothing says PHPs is out of question its just unlikley 2 would be exactly that big

[clever sable]

It's about the same

[light osprey]

I think it’s a posture issue mostly, the legs are never shown in a neutral erect position.

[white matrix]

I like my rex obese

[stiff osprey]

I've been doing it from the beginning (mind you this isn't the largest argentino, that would be 33.5 m and 80 something tonnes)

[tulip whale]

Did spino have lips?

[bright veldt]

Yes and no

It’s one of those things where it could have either. We don’t know for sure.

[compact leaf]

bless you random this makes my life infinitely easier

[clever sable]

Wait.... We have multiple Argentinosaurus specimens??????

[stiff osprey]

three of em, two being incomplete femora

[light osprey]

Least fragmentary Lognkosaurian /j

[blissful bison]

what is your favorite dinosaur?

[clever sable]

Acrocanthosaurus

[tranquil quartz]

Great Horned Owl

[clever sable]

What's the smallest one?

[stiff osprey]

111.4 cm circumference femur shaft

[blissful bison]

is that a mosasaur jawbone?

[lunar edge]

Idk. Is it?

[blissful bison]

Ah OK

[rancid glade]

Right guys I need some help here with a Paleo question that's been bugging me

Did Kelenken ever interact with Smilodon? Did they ever encounter one another at any point??

[light oxide]

Yeah

Keleken lived in an ecosystem shared by Smilodon fatalis. Or populator -- can't quite figure out which Smilodon species it was.

[little mauve]

I thought Kelenken was from the Miocene & Smilodon was Pleistocene

[tough parcel]

Kelenken did not live with Smilodon

[rancid glade]

Ah shoot so when the primordial tyrants Kelenken does release I can't recreate a fight that would of happened in real life then 😔

So they didn't overlap briefly at all then it seems

[little mauve]

Phorusrhacids were mostly extinct by the time Smilodon showed up

[tranquil quartz]

Pretty sure Titanis co existed with S.gracilis for a bit though
Iirc they co existed for less than a million years due to predatory mammals outcompeting them.

[little mauve]

Titanis yes probably overlapped a bit

[light oxide]

Huh . . . Okay then -- guess me memory was against me this time. 😅

[light oxide]

Well, if PT Keleken does end up having a Titanus subspecies . . . Then ye can. XD

[robust goblet]

Y'all seem smart; does anyone know if raptor-like herbivores existed? By raptor-like I mean they have the same general shape and stance of a raptor, they don't actually have to Be a raptor. Just kinda shaped xD

[light oxide]

Gastornis was first thought to be a terror bird before we found out that it was actually herbivorous.

[woeful falcon]

Really depends on what you mean by raptor shaped because I would say yes, plenty lol. But that might not be raptor shaped to you

[light oxide]

Hmm, some think that some troodontids were omnivorous, based on how the teeth were shaped.

[tough parcel]

No, that's an old theory. Titanis went extinct due to climate change wiping out its habitat

[little mauve]

Oviraptorids come to mind, some Troodontids may have been omnivorous, Therizinosaurids if you stretch the definition of raptor like

[tranquil quartz]

Ah ok.

[woeful falcon]

I'd go as far to say ornithopods like dryo were raptor shaped in a general sense

[tranquil quartz]

Oviraptorids were probably snacking on a lot of plant matter as well, seeds etc.

[robust goblet]

<3<3 thank you thank you thank you!! I have a lot to google now ahdmena i love these bipedal bird-esc babies

[woeful falcon]

There's also ornithomimosaurs too, like Struthiomimus

[tranquil quartz]

You’ve also got modern birds like Parrots,Hoatzins, etc.

[light oxide]

Huh, interesting. I was under the impression that some Titanus were around when Smilodon came into the scene, with the presence of a more adaptive predator sealing the coffin for Titanus. Oh well.

[stiff osprey]

I heard Fukuivenator might have eaten plants as well? but that seems to be debated

[light oxide]

Yeah -- the relative of the herbivorous therizinosaurs that "may" have been either herbivorous, omnivorous, or even still carnivorous. XD

[stiff osprey]

Titanis coexisted with Smilodon gracilis, a leopard-sized predator that preferred denser woodland. While Titanis itself was a tiger sized animal living in open terrain. So they were going after quite different prey

[tough parcel]

Titanis was around for Smilodon gracilis, but they coexisted (if not the bird outright keeping Smilodon down from growing big)

[tranquil quartz]

They coexisted not for very long however

[robust goblet]

also is it just me or do size chart things like these kinda make it seem like the dinosaur is Tryna have a conversation W/ the human shape. Like doesnt this dino look like he's asking for a lighter for a cigarette

[light oxide]

Huh -- I thought ye said that Titanus wasn't around for the Smilodom genus, based on what ye said here:

#paleontology message

Oh wait -- I read it wrong.

RIP me then

[bright veldt]

From what I understand most terror birds were actually forest-dwelling animals. Either way Titanis was the top predator of its ecosystem.

[light oxide]

Opinions on this size chart for the Morrison Formation?

[clever sable]

@stiff osprey so uhhhhhhh, is this even possible for rex??? It looks like it has wayyyyyy too much soft tissue

[compact leaf]

there's some pretty outdated sizes here for the sauropods and scaling weirdness

[woeful falcon]

No that's accurate rexes rex is biggy chonkie now

[clever sable]

Are you being sarcastic?

[woeful falcon]

Yes entirely. If php rex was considered overly fat I imagine that would be

[compact leaf]

supposedly one of the sauropods is diplodocus so I'm hoping for a good jurassic episode

and if we don't get to see a brachiosaurid in that episode I will be immeasurably upset

[light oxide]

I see

[light oxide]

Hmm, I do wonder where they're getting the lots of soft tissue from -- could there be a study that we don't know about that goes into this?

Because it's weird to me how both Prehistoric Planet AND Life on Our Planet both have Tyrannosaurus that have lots of soft tissue.

[woeful falcon]

Took this and ran with it

Chunk rex is in

[clever sable]

I'd rather have chonk rex than copy pasted JP rex

[woeful falcon]

I'd rather have a good rex

[light oxide]

Based on a backwards gastralia, from what I've seen. sigh

Or at least something wrong with the gastralia.

[clever sable]

Same but like, if you have to pick between the 2 I'm picking chunky rex

[woeful falcon]

That's me being pedantic, PhP is a good rex. But the reaction shouldn't be "well I'd rather have this than the complete opposite". Should be "I'd rather have a nicely depicted healthy rex"

[clever sable]

I like this rex

[bright veldt]

LOOP's rex feels like PhP's to me in terms of chunk. It's just the angle I think.

[light oxide]

This rex is good too:

[clever sable]

Even that one's a little too chunky as well

[light oxide]

?

Mate, it's basically the same chunk as the tan-ish rex ye showed above.

[tough parcel]

AFAIK it's fine (the model is)

The concept art, that might be a bit chunk tho, idk

[light oxide]

Yeah, the concept art of it had too much chunk.

Then there's this rex I found, though . . . its snout is a bit . . . "funny looking" for some reason:

And then there's this rex by Gabriel N. U., which I think is VERY good:

The same artist also made this scene of a tyrannosaurus going after a young triceratops that strayed too far from their mother and sibling:

[pearl briar]

rex with a slight fuzz is my favorite ❤️

[wary junco]

To me this looks like a composite, meaning it's got at least some real fossil parts but it's not as it was found in life and was reset in a sandy matrix to make it look more presentable. The teeth definitely belong to a mosasaur, and the actual "jawbones" could be too, but sometimes the jaws belong to a different animal entirely (camel, sheep etc.) because it's cheaper to source

[tiny holly]

Honestly it looks like a pretty typical fake, you see heaps upon heaps of these supposed mosasaur jaws. I could honestly add more pictures but you get the point

I'd wager these fake mosasaurus jaws are some of the most common fake fossils out there, alongside things like supposedly perfect looking trilobites. They're easy to fake and people think they look cool so

[viscid surge]

You’ve made me doubt every fossil purchase I’ve ever made now, I’ll go through them all later and see 💀

[covert lintel]

honestly, if people are gonna make fakes, why not go for a whole skull? 's gonna look a lot less unnatural than perfectly disconnected segments of upper and lower jaws, and also looks considerably cooler

[viscid surge]

Because people want a real one and disconnected segments are easier to make somewhat convincingly I suspect

[light osprey]

Having a M. Hoffmannii skull cast does sound pretty cool though. Maybe scale it after Penza

[tiny holly]

yeah honestly if you want a fossil for the cool factor just get a realistic cast? Looks way cooler, probably cheaper than whatever the scammer is trying to pass of as legit to you, and still makes for a nice conversation piece either way

[tiny holly]

There are certain things you can usually safely assume are real, my dad owns a couple of megalodon teeth and they're a pretty easy fossil to get your hands on. I mean there are places where you can just go for a walk and, if you're lucky, find them on the ground lol. But a lot of fossils, in particular of "popular" animals like trilobites you want to do your research.

https://fossilsplus.com/blog/fake-fossils-buyer-be-aware/ this website lists a few things to look out for when buying fossils that indicate it may be fake

There's also the obvious, "does this even look remotely like what they're claiming it is? Or like actual organic material at all?", the crocodile(?) skull in the image on that link is a great example of something that is SO obviously fake to anyone that understands anything about what skulls for any animal look like, let alone crocodilians. Obviously fake fossils that look like a highschool art project (like this scorpion) are a soft spot of mine I have to admit, they're pretty funny looking

[hidden merlin]

I’ve got a fossil. Does this look fake?

[tiny holly]

Looks real to me just from a quick glance. Small fish fossils are incredibly common and easy to get your hands on, we have one as well.

[hidden merlin]

Ohhhh

[viscid surge]

I haven’t looked at this one in years but looking at it now, im slightly suspicious

[hidden merlin]

Doesn’t look real to me tbh

[viscid surge]

Yeahhh it’s extremely perfect

[light osprey]

I’m now wondering where the heck could I put a 1.7 metre long Mosasaurus skull 🤔 maybe I’ll have that instead of a coffee table

[hidden merlin]

Who sold the real ones to Jurassic world /j

[tiny holly]

imo there are 3 factors to keep in mind that don't necessary increase the chance of something being a fake, but should make you more wary and encourage more research.

1. Size. The bigger something is the cooler it is, but large intact fossils are rarer
2. Age. The older something is the cooler it is, but older fossils are also more rare
3. Popularity of the organism. Specific organisms are more coveted, which is more incentive to fake them.

It basically all amounts to cool factor though. The cooler a fossil is, the more buyers you'll have and the more incentive there is to fake one

[viscid surge]

Imagine spending a life as the most fearsome marine predator of the Cretaceous only to have your skull used as a coffee table 💀

[hidden merlin]

Now works at Starbucks /j

[tiny holly]

The problem with trilobite fossils is that they are very easy to fake convincingly. Plus trilobites are small delicate animals but this means that when they do preserve, they tend to preserve really well. And with just a little preparation you have a really high quality fossil. It's hard for me to say with yours, it looks convincing but I don't know enough about the history of it (how much did it cost, where did it come from etc) or trilobites as a whole to pass judgement.

Morocco is pretty well known for having a significant counterfiet fossil ring going on there. But the thing is the reason they do is because they have such good high quality real fossils in the first place. Real trilobite fossils from morocco are some of the best out there and there's a decent number of them, but this makes it increadibly easy to saturate the market with fakes.

What I will say is that impression/cast fossils are a lot more reliable. They're considered less lucrative to fake because they're not really seen as being as cool as these 3-dimensional fossils are. If you're gonna fake a trilobite fossil you may as well fake the "cooler" ones. They sell for more and are just as convincing, plus are easy to fake

https://youtu.be/BeN3QaAFZbk Here's a decent video to maybe help figure it out though!

[silver canopy]

Didnt Know Purussaurus Was A Cenozoic Species

That's Cool

Just Learned That

[viscid surge]

So judging by this video, theres nothing to say mine isnt a fake simply because it doesnt have of of the signs. But i gotta say man, it does look fake

It has all the microfractures, detailled eyes and head, no air pockets etc but it also doesnt feel right

[ancient crystal]

Kinda a weird question as it could belong in both #modding or here, but does anyone have the study that DB based their ampelosaurus on? They say its skeletally accurate to a 2016 study, but I can't find it.

[tiny holly]

If you bought it, how much it sold for would be a big indicator. Casts are usually only a couple hundred at most, while an original is in the thousands, in particular for the level of quality yours is

[viscid surge]

I have one extremely convincing fake fossil in my collection then

[tiny holly]

Casts are still neat in their own right! But it is a shame if its not a legitimate original

[white matrix]

Ive got a rock with real ammonites then

[tiny holly]

ammonites are very very common, in particular ammonite imprint fossils. I'd love to get my hands on one of those some day, they're pretty cheap as far as fossils go

[white matrix]

Found it randomly outside someones house lmao

[pearl briar]

it's a shame i've never seen a trilobite in my entire life 😔

[white matrix]

Some i assume are cast away inside the rock and there are two very intriguing imprints and and ammonite got this all for free right outside someones house

[tranquil quartz]

I stopped buying fossils after my dog broke my Eocarcharia tooth
It was the most painful thing i have ever experienced

[white matrix]

I got a free shark tooth fossils like agess ago i was a kid dropped it and cried lmao

[light osprey]

W

[blissful crescent]

spino solos jw Mosasaurs

[sand silo]

Na mosa is way bigger

Well, if spino could beach mosa, then it would still have a hard time looking for weaknesses in it's osteoderms

[viscid surge]

Jurassic world goliath, not the actual thing right?

[sand silo]

Yes, the actual fight would be kinda even if it was scientifically accurate

[pearl briar]

nah jit trippin 💀💀💀

bro thought spino could solo a kaiju

[sand silo]

Scientific accurate fight is much, much fairer. Compared to fighting a steroided crocodylomorph and a upscale bary with a sail.

[clever sable]

Monsters resurrected spino kills mosa easily definitely 100%

[heady thunder]

JW mosas size is dependant on what they want for the shot.
It changes like the powerlevel of an anime MC.

[sand silo]

Mosasaurus in real life doesn't have osteoderms but the jw mosa has croc armor.

[light osprey]

Yes yes I realise the context now, don’t see the fairness in how a Spinosaurine is fit to deal with a marine predator like M. hoffmanii (in the realistic scenario)

[blissful crescent]

I love causing drama ❤❤❤

But spino never really ran into moso right? Cause spino liked swamps and rivers over the ocean

[sullen cairn]

Mosa also appeared way after spinosaurs died out

[bright veldt]

The mosasaurs in spino’s day were still standard lizard size

[gloomy elm]

hey aren't you that YouTuber?

[white matrix]

Duh

[gloomy elm]

I know they are i'm trying to be funny

[woeful falcon]

Heehee hoohoo

What's y'alls favorite non-mesozoic prehistoric animal?

[white matrix]

Same 😛

[deft sigil]

Please remain polite and respectful towards other members. Refer to our #rules

Also as a general channel reminder, please view pinned messages for appropriate paleo-chat topics. We recommend all off-topic conversations for paleo-chat be directed to DM's, the appropriate channel or another server entirely.

[tiny holly]

man i cant pick having both paleozoic and cenozoic to choose from is too much

[gloomy elm]

Same

[white matrix]

I wasnt being rude? Duh is a yes but quicker and im in a convo rn so kinda all over the place

[deft sigil]

Yes has the same amount of letters as 'Duh.' If you are unsure if something is coming across politely in chat, please take a second to review. Tone cannot be read in messages

[white matrix]

I do understand that which is why I replied with 'same :P' when they said they just tried being funny 👍

[woeful falcon]

I wouldn't fight it melon. Do you got a favorite non-mesozoic prehistoric animal?

[gloomy elm]

Yes a dog

[woeful falcon]

That....technically qualifies?

[gloomy elm]

You said non meszoic

[white matrix]

Welp ik myself i did nothing wrong but yeah alr
Does megalania count? I find the fact that it used to hunt us interesting terror bird is also v interesting horse shoe crabs and triops

[woeful falcon]

Ye but i also said prehistoric lol. Which, dog technically qualifies, depending on how far back the domestic dog goes could count

Megalania def counts and is a cool animal

[gloomy elm]

How about the "dire" wolf

[woeful falcon]

That def counts

[stiff osprey]

Non-mesozoic is a reeeal wide range, I don't think I can choose one out of that

[gloomy elm]

Let talk about megalodon

[stiff osprey]

Titanoboa is cute though

[tough parcel]

Giant water puppy!!!

[gloomy elm]

Cute?

[sullen cairn]

snakes are cute

titanoboa is cute

[gloomy elm]

Ok that's fair plus i love snkes

[undone parcel]

in all fairness Megalainia didnt coexist with early humans long till they probably contributed to its already upcoming extinctuion

[undone parcel]

have you not seen boaids faces..theyre the definition of innocence and squishy

[gloomy elm]

True

[gloomy elm]

Until they open there mouths lol

[undone parcel]

still adorable

[viscid surge]

To me it just looked like we wiped out a somewhat rare species 💀

[undone parcel]

thats cause we did, by that point im pretty sure it was heavily declined due to the ongoing megafaunal exctinction

[viscid surge]

What megafaunal extinction?

[undone parcel]

the australian one

[viscid surge]

Yeah sorry bro I’m not knowledgeable on extinct Australian megafauna, I need some more info lol

[undone parcel]

diprotodontids,giant kangaroo, giant birds were going extinct due to climate changes and other things but throw in a weird ape with fire and sharp sticks and it goes up

[covert lintel]

hrmmm.... Terror Bird ...

[clever sable]

Purussaurus

[undone parcel]

barinasuchus, suck it age of mammals

[viscid surge]

We’re in the first time since who knows how long when the largest land predator isn’t a reptile I think 🤔

[undone parcel]

no barina is the largest and its a eucrocodylomorph

[covert lintel]

barinasuchus isn't currently alive, so we are currently in a time where the largest land predator isn't a reptile. there was no need to correct them.

[stiff osprey]

^

[astral kelp]

Paraentelodon

[stiff osprey]

the Pleistocene has been the first time since the Permian that the largest land predator isn't a diapsid, i believe

[tough parcel]

I should fix that

[undone parcel]

i was gonna say Megalainia but then i remembered its like a 1000 so lbs

[stiff osprey]

are you going to put saltwater crocodiles on land, or kill every mammal bigger than a komodo dragon?

[undone parcel]

dont give em ideas

[tough parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-gif-25117042

[undone parcel]

....ill bite Thanos is a great dinosaur name

[shy pike]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-meme-marvel-gif-14856860

[undone parcel]

nah im living with being one 24/7

[clever sable]

Force salties to be terrestrial

[undone parcel]

crossbreed salties and cubans

[white matrix]

Oh god i feel that

[clever sable]

Salties may be able to vote with 27,000 newtons of force possibly more if this is correct

[viscid surge]

I wonder how many generations it takes to get a terrestrial saltwater croc

[tough parcel]

Also, working on a new thing and lol, lmao

[light osprey]

Incorrect

[tough parcel]

Bro the crocs are voting now?? 😭 this is a disaster, who gave them voting rights

[undone parcel]

im a lover of all dinosaur names

[stiff osprey]

They shouldn't vote that hard, they'll break the machines

[clever sable]

Are you using short people to make something look bigger again

[undone parcel]

gualicho is segregating crocodilians cancel them

[tough parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/maybe-heavy-tf2-uncertain-gif-19368937

[clever sable]

Oops

[light osprey]

Using tall ppl to make dinosaurs look smaller 🗿

[tough parcel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/512496784547905547/918690294713692230/58BB6E35-31BF-432A-85B6-64CC8D321139.gif

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/anakin-skywalker-i-did-darth-vader-i-did-i-did-gif-26166440

[undone parcel]

terrifying thought...could..the giant crocodylomorphs like Deino or Puru potentially gallop or is Cubans the size limit really for galloping

[clever sable]

Definitely not

[chilly knot]

They could not

[clever sable]

Although puru could support it's own weight better because hip bones or something

[chilly knot]

Large salties prob can't even high walk

[undone parcel]

its fat but sursprisingly mobile

[quick hazel]

What’s the most recent model for Spino now xD

[clever sable]

I like to think that puru would have been able to high walk because hip bones or whatever

[light osprey]

W C. porosus

[undone parcel]

high walkings probably just ancestral to everything that isnt a gharial

[chilly knot]

Yea puru has has some helping bones for better terrestrial locomotion but sure couldn't gallop

[sullen cairn]

No

[tough parcel]

Wdym? Gharials can high-walk but only until a certain size due to their limbs being trash at land movement/them being fat

[undone parcel]

oh they can? i just figured they couldnt due to being terrible at land locomotion

[light osprey]

A fellow hater of bad dinosaur names 🤝

[undone parcel]

people never agree with me that native tongue names are great

[covert lintel]

wrong. i agree with you

[undone parcel]

validation

[light osprey]

Difference between that and naming a dinosaur Thanos

[covert lintel]

true!

[undone parcel]

hey its not the worst name

theres cumnoria

[sullen cairn]

brazil's abelisaurid with a native tongue name also sucks

[undone parcel]

in Kurupis defense it was found in hard rock by a love motel so it fits

[sullen cairn]

that's no excuse

[light osprey]

Counterpoint, don’t name an animal after a love motel

[undone parcel]

no its named after a god of fertility

[sullen cairn]

spectrovenator's cool though

[undone parcel]

oh yea it is

[tough parcel]

An animal whose name means rock hard sex god is a W

[sullen cairn]

pycno's just kinda odd

[undone parcel]

isnt Ekrix just like explosion lizard

[white matrix]

Dropped my phone and missed mt hc cuz of that

[sullen cairn]

explosion-born lizard

[undone parcel]

yea

[woeful falcon]

Love ekrix's name and the animal

[covert lintel]

yeah ekrix got one of the most names ever

[tiny holly]

I find it a bit silly when you get dinosaurs where both the genus AND species name are important for the name as a whole. because then what happens when you get a different species in that genus? Its just weird. Like shri devi, the deity its named after is shri devi as a single name, you dont just call the deity shri.

[undone parcel]

beg

[covert lintel]

beg tse is another good example i think. the sentiment is nice but there's no planning for the future involved, like, at all

[tiny holly]

yeah cus like what kind of genus is beg

[undone parcel]

it falls under sus with Pantydraco and cumnoria

[sullen cairn]

gaylordia

[undone parcel]

must name a same sex pairing if ever found

[tiny holly]

Even yi qi is a bit of an odd one. because the genus is just... yi. which basically just translates to wing.

[undone parcel]

then again no ever just says Yi, doesnt sound right

[tranquil quartz]

Mastodonosaurus

[bright veldt]

I do cause I’m a dumb

[undone parcel]

breast tooth lizard

[tiny holly]

would have made way more sense imo for the genus to be Yiqi, then give it a different species name. "strange wing" as a genus name is totally servicable

[covert lintel]

at least that one can be expanded out if other species are found, i think? like it won't make As Much sense but it'll still make sense

[sullen cairn]

mei would also be weird for any other species found not sleeping

[undone parcel]

biggest pet peeve are people saying yi as yee and no ee

[tiny holly]

funnily enough you notice a trend with these "name is out of place as just the genus" where they're all non-latin-based languages, in particular asian languages

[undone parcel]

sinraptors the most nonasian sounding species

[covert lintel]

we need to find a latin example ASAP. it's gotta be out there

[woeful falcon]

Ironic bc its name means Chinese thief

[tiny holly]

there are still latin based ones that while not as out of place as something like shri devi, are at least still pretty silly. Gorilla gorilla gorilla

[tranquil quartz]

What does Tsaagan translate to?

[tiny holly]

white apparently lmao

[undone parcel]

explains why qall its merch is white

[tranquil quartz]

what thats it

[undone parcel]

welcome to asian translation

[covert lintel]

tsaagan mangas as a whole translates to "white monster"

(allegedly tsaagan is misspelled and is actually meant to be tsagaan?)

[tranquil quartz]

Erectopus what does that mean

[tiny holly]

its not lookin good for english researchers naming asian dinosaurs fellas

[woeful falcon]

T. bataar moment

[covert lintel]

's just "upright foot"

[tranquil quartz]

Wow, these palaeontologists gotta start picking better names

[undone parcel]

so the other day i went on a sorta rabbit hole and i found Pristichampsus means saw tooth but nowhere could i find Boverisuchus name meaning

[tranquil quartz]

Like who named this specimen?

Imagine being a majestic flying reptile, you die and then millions of years later some fleshly primate names you an idiot

[sullen cairn]

erectopus superbus

[undone parcel]

its a morrison pterosaur

[tiny holly]

Just off the top of my head from a cursorary knowledge of latin, suchus obviously means crocodile and boveri is likely bovine related in some way. So cowcrocodile or something like that?

[undone parcel]

maybe from it having hooves

[white matrix]

Oh my god im dying 😭😭

[tiny holly]

that'd probably be it yeah lmao. cow croc

[covert lintel]

allosaurus is one of the more recognizable dinosaur names but it's literally just Other Reptile. like "hey guys we found another one of those dinosaurs but it's a lil weird what should we call it" "uh. A Different Lizard." "yeah alright". immaculate

[undone parcel]

then here comes Saurophaganax as Lord of the Lizard Eaters

[tranquil quartz]

Wow here comes Pantydraco as the Panty Dragon

[tough parcel]

I think that's just Sassy being Sassy and not the actual designation

[tiny holly]

tbf the panty part is specifically a reference to something welsh iirc

[undone parcel]

yea a welsh quarry,Panty-ifflon or something, Pant-y-Ffynnon Quarry got it

[sullen cairn]

becklespinax altinspinax was fun while it lasted

[tranquil quartz]

Still if someone were to read these names without context, they would be like “WTF goes on inside palaeontologists heads during the naming process”

[undone parcel]

not their fault people have dirty minds, i dont know what cumnoria means but its funny

[tranquil quartz]

True

[undone parcel]

never forget Han Solo

[tranquil quartz]

Trilobite moment

[undone parcel]

mastodon moment...named Breast tooth

[tranquil quartz]

Still the best temnospondyl

[undone parcel]

no the probascidean or whatever mastodon is

[tranquil quartz]

Myxococcus llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogochensis moment
That is an actual organism

[undone parcel]

...........yea bacteria people are different

[tranquil quartz]

And then we have Parapropalaehoplophorus septentrionalis some goofy glyptodont

[heady thunder]

Thats based

[undone parcel]

if you want a name i despise..that newish spanish Baryonichine that means champion or something simply cause i cant say it...

protathlitis

[chilly knot]

Sin comes from sino which means China, but I agree sounds rather religious

[light oxide]

I got a question for the peeps here -- how much did Camptosaurus and Tenontosaurus weigh?

Estimate wise, of course.

[sullen cairn]

Tilletti is 600kg and dossi 1000kg

[stiff osprey]

Camptosaurus weighed from under 500 kg to 2 tonnes depending on the specimen (both are fully grown)

I don't think T.dossi is bigger than T.tilletti

[sullen cairn]

Gsp’s the only weight estimate

Actually there is a skeletal out there iirc

[light oxide]

What would ye say a good range of weight for Tenontosaurus then? 600 kg to 1000 kg?

[stiff osprey]

Incin's working on one, but his pace is... unique

And 600-1000kg seems reasonable for the largest

[sullen cairn]

Is 2t Campto that big femur thing?

[light oxide]

I see

[stiff osprey]

Femur, ilium, scapula, it's quite a bit

[light oxide]

Interesting.

I asked as someone said that Tenontosaurus was around the same size or larger than Camptosaurus, when I thought that Tenontosaurus was just overall smaller than Camptosaurus.

So I thought I'd ask here for clarification.

[stiff osprey]

Tenontosaurus is broadly larger, you just have the one stupid freak Campto that is twice as big as the next largest one

[light oxide]

Mmm, so the consensus is that Tenontosaurus is around the same size as Camptosaurus, basically?

Or that Camptosaurus was a sliver/little smaller than Tenontosaurus?

[light oxide]

That Camptosaurus was being fed REAL well, aye? XD

[undone parcel]

also tenonto is like more then half tail

ill forever embrace tenonto as a living baseball bat

[clever sable]

And we still probably don't have the largest Campto 💀

[undone parcel]

was oblitosaurus confirmed to haved made those supposed giant ornithopod prints or is that stll up in the air as a giant campto or something else

mmm attributed to it

oh no the ones i was thinking of are in Lourinha

[nocturne gazelle]

Campto pulling a croc move and just non stop growing until death

[tough parcel]

That doesn't mean you'll grow to kaiju sizes

Big sizes is determined by several factors, but some of the major ones is genetics and access to resources when young. Even if a crocodile is like 5 foot long, but lives to be 100 years old, it won't grow past maybe 6 foot

[undone parcel]

pretty sure they stop growing longer they just slowly get heavier

[nocturne gazelle]

So they have the capability to grow larger but likely lack the resources to sustain large sizes

[tough parcel]

No, growth plateaus at a certain point for all animals, it's just that crocs and some others mildly grow a bit bigger

[undone parcel]

plus at a certain point growth rate drops massivley

[heady thunder]

A 200000 year croc will be jw mosa size.

[undone parcel]

which jw mosa size

[heady thunder]

Ill decide that later.

[undone parcel]

wait till the next movie for 5 more size discrepencies

[light oxide]

Hmm, I'm wondering if what we're seeing (the smaller adult camptos) are just the predators choosing the easier meals, with the larger ones being able to stay alive due to their larger size.

Would explain why we're getting a lot of the smaller adult campto sizes while we have that one very large campto specimen. XD

[undone parcel]

individual variation

[light oxide]

That too.

[heady thunder]

Allos would probably appreciate 1 ton camptos more tbf.

[undone parcel]

theres apparently ornithopod prints in lourinha that suggest a 2 tonner

[nocturne gazelle]

4 piece chicken nugget vs the entire happy meal

[light oxide]

The second largest campto we have found was around 1000 kg (1 tonne) actually.

[undone parcel]

meaning 2 tons is possible?

[sullen cairn]

meanwhile plateosaurus and edmontosaurus

[undone parcel]

god Plateosaurus...is just a painful genus

[light oxide]

We already found a 2 tonnes campto specimen.

[nocturne gazelle]

How come

[undone parcel]

wastebasket taxonomy to name issues to issues of validity

[tough parcel]

Plateo might be getting split soon™️ (I vaguely recall seeing an abstract on it)

[nocturne gazelle]

Waiting for the new campto ability "supersize me: double model size, hp, and combat weight. Decreases stamina and speed".

[heady thunder]

Iggy

[sullen cairn]

pot with accurate sizes seems kinda cursed

[nocturne gazelle]

Basically

[undone parcel]

i mean Oblitosaurus is just a bigger campto

[stiff osprey]

A lot of the animals would play the same, rip kentro tho

[undone parcel]

isnt kentro like tiny comparatively

[light oxide]

Unless they severely buff its spine damage both reflect and hit. XD

[tough parcel]

The

[sullen cairn]

max size stego

[nocturne gazelle]

How big would that be?

[sullen cairn]

is that largest specimen

[tough parcel]

Idk, Kentro's sheit

[undone parcel]

wasnt it a victim of the ww2 bombings or something

[sullen cairn]

poor eo

[light oxide]

Btw, Camptosaurus size compared to Allosaurus (not Saurophaganax sized, btw):

[undone parcel]

i mean i understand why they chose eo over default trike probably

[heady thunder]

Eo would mess sucho up anyway

[nocturne gazelle]

They want to be ✨ unique ✨

[tough parcel]

The Allosaurus takes what it wants

[nocturne gazelle]

Stego looks so imbalanced

[sullen cairn]

allosaurus is another wonderful individual variation thing

[nocturne gazelle]

Like someone's squishing it's face and tail together

[undone parcel]

GUALICHO DONT SHRINK IT

[undone parcel]

you probably shrank it by a centimeter setting off my anxiety now..

[sullen cairn]

do it with usnm 4734

[undone parcel]

is that Saurophaganax?

[light oxide]

No -- Saurophaganax is larger.

[sullen cairn]

tiny guy

[undone parcel]

sauro is held in oklohoma..thats right

[sullen cairn]

unproject adult sizes your alio

[tough parcel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/512496784547905547/918690294713692230/58BB6E35-31BF-432A-85B6-64CC8D321139.gif

[clever sable]

L, eo got shrunk, common Eo L

[undone parcel]

do they still debate Qianzhou as just adult alioramus..

[sullen cairn]

mortimer moment

[clever sable]

Isn't qian itself a sub adult?

[sullen cairn]

there was a whole skull paper on why it's not alio like a year ago

[light oxide]

The specimen we found of it, yeah, I think?

[tough parcel]

Hahah, tiny

[undone parcel]

another day, another argument of X tyrannosaur is Y tyrannosaur of another growth stage

[sullen cairn]

well in alio's defence remontus is marginally larger than altai

if that's just random's skeletal than you could make it marginally larger

[undone parcel]

Alioramins definitley fall into the category of "would 100% hunt humans for food"

[sullen cairn]

alioramins fall into the category of "did this really need to be a clade"

[undone parcel]

theyre weird enough

[sullen cairn]

alioramini is fun to say though

[woeful falcon]

I mean, probably. Given how unusual looking they are next to other tyrannosaurids, even if you ignore a Qianzhou lump, Alioramus and its closest hypothetical relatives I would think are fairly distinct and would form a clade of their own in a reality where we could possibly know its relatives.

[undone parcel]

the real question is how diverse did they get or did they evolve too late for a huge diversification

[bright veldt]

Both alioramus are juveniles while the qianzhou specimen’s a subadult. I bet on the adults of both genera being 7m long personally and PoT also follows that general idea.

[sullen cairn]

yeah they are better than albertosaruines in terms of justification

[undone parcel]

albertosaurines are just..ehh looks like albertosaurus

[sullen cairn]

we really needed a clade for the two (maybe one) genera of tyrannosaurids basal to tyrannosaurines

[undone parcel]

yea you have daspletosaurs like..why isnt albertosaurus here

[sullen cairn]

daspletosaurini - stupid daspletosaurus complex + thanato if thanato isn't stupid das complex too

and could be a grade not a clade

[woeful falcon]

Albertosaurines wouldn't be thrown into the daspletosaurs even if you did kill the subfam

oh table, explain grade to me. I haven't learned that yet

[undone parcel]

no then wed keep arguing gorgosaurus or albertosaurus

[clever sable]

Wasn't there something lumping Tarbo and rex and Alberto and gorgo? Personally that sounds like BS to me but idk

[undone parcel]

yea the whole argument is tarbo is just asian rex despite clear anatomical differences

[sullen cairn]

a grade's just a paraphyletic clade which can apply to das if you buy into that anagenesis to tyrannosaurini stuff, but I don't think that's too well supported

[bright veldt]

Alberto and gorgo could be reasonable lumped into one genus, it’s just a dino worker thing that it’s not preferred

Tarbo and Rex on the other hand are a lot more complicated, especially with Zhucheng existing

[woeful falcon]

tarbo and Tyrannosaurus* and some have lumped the 4 into two genera for some time now. not new stuff

[undone parcel]

pretty sure the biggest thing stoppping it is gorgo is bulkier or somethin

[sullen cairn]

and then there's tarbosaurus' 20 junior synonyms

[clever sable]

Is that still considered reasonable or is it outdated?

[undone parcel]

shanshan and raptorex my beloveds

[woeful falcon]

From what I've heard there is a lot, or potentially a lot, that distinguish the gorgo and alberto on a less superficial level but then that boils down to if you think it constitutes them being different genera or just different species

which is more or less subjective

[sullen cairn]

plus the half dozen dubious deinodon things

[bright veldt]

Size is not a factor that differentiates genera. The smallest dimetrodon species is the size of a pug and the largest is bigger than megalania

[undone parcel]

no i think the smallest dimetrodons like cat sized..

[bright veldt]

Same difference

[sullen cairn]

isn't a pug cat sized

[elfin pulsar]

Yes

[undone parcel]

yea D. tuetonis

[clever sable]

I believe you mean Varanus priscus

[chilly knot]

Palaeoloxodon having the potentially smallest and biggest in its genus

[clever sable]

Ik it's hilarious

[undone parcel]

wait i thought they said pig...im braindead..

[woeful falcon]

Lump tarbo and gorgo or not, they'd still be distinct species. And their relationship is prone to flip flopping so

which ever is easier for science while still being logical.

[sullen cairn]

least based Proboscid

[bright veldt]

Regardless, the most distinction between Alberto and gorgo is some differences in the skull. Either way there’s nothing really stopping gorgo from being an Alberto species aside from preference. One clearly shifted into another over time either way

[clever sable]

Bruh I want one of those little dwarf palaeoloxodons

[sullen cairn]

alberto's the horseshoe one gorgo's the not horshoe one now be happy

[undone parcel]

i cant own a mini horse but ill own P. falconrei

[stiff osprey]

Alberto and gorgo are the ONE case in tyrannosaur phylogeny where every single time the two are studied they come out as sister taxa. So they're easily the same genus

[sullen cairn]

but gorgosaurus sounds cool

[clever sable]

So who is the junior synonym of who?

[stiff osprey]

in fact, i think there's only a handful of cases in all of theropoda where this happens lol

[woeful falcon]

wait until I find Eogorgosaurus

[undone parcel]

neogorgosaurus

[sullen cairn]

that's just albertosaurus

[bright veldt]

Alberto came first, so G. libratus would be Albertosaurus libratus

[woeful falcon]

don't you say that name

[clever sable]

Common gorgo L

[stiff osprey]

Which is a shame, because Gorgosaurus sarcophagus would FRICK

[chilly knot]

Tyrannosaurus libratus and Tyrannosaurus sarcophagus

https://tenor.com/view/kumalala-savesta-lightskin-meme-kumala-gif-25628506

[light oxide]

Actually . . . Which was named first? Albertosaurus or Gorgosaurus?

[stiff osprey]

Fierce flesh-eating lizard, like yeah that sure is what it is

[vocal breach]

Guys I have a Dino drawing I’ll send it here in a bit for an accuracy check

[sullen cairn]

ornithomimus grandis

[undone parcel]

..am i the only one who messes up and says Albertosaurus sarcophagus..

[heady thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/baby-dont-hurt-me-mike-ohearn-jokester-joke-funny-gif-27699537

[stiff osprey]

Albertosaurus, same year as T.rex

[bright veldt]

? That’s correct

[undone parcel]

no like the thing mummies go in

[light oxide]

Mmm, noted.

[bright veldt]

Oh lmao

[stiff osprey]

mummy casket alberta lizard

[sullen cairn]

the most based albertosaurine is pericolosus

[undone parcel]

Aubylsodon..

[stiff osprey]

i love tooth taxa !!

[sullen cairn]

incrassatus time

[bright veldt]

Nanotyrannus being an Albertosaurine/alioramine arises

[woeful falcon]

how are you supposed to say it A. sarcophagus bc I've been saying it like the mummy casket

[chilly knot]

And Deinodon

[sullen cairn]

*dryptosaurid

[bright veldt]

Sarco-fay-gis

[undone parcel]

nanotyrannus was a convergent of Alioramines

[stiff osprey]

i'mma be honest i've also been saying it like the casket

[sullen cairn]

same

[vocal breach]

Scanova I got a question could Maip take on an Allo irl

[woeful falcon]

yeah that sounds stupid I'm gonna continue saying the other way as they are the same

[sullen cairn]

they're like the same size

[woeful falcon]

real live (liv) vs live (lyv) moment

[undone parcel]

maip has bigger claws..

[bright veldt]

If I had to do a Carnivora moment I’m betting on the Maip. It’s larger and got the meaner hands. That’s about it.

[clever sable]

Tyrannosaurus bataar would be an interesting name

[chilly knot]

Defo

[vocal breach]

Last I remember Allo was like 2 tons and Maip is like 3

[stiff osprey]

if NMMNH P-26083 is A.fragilis, it beats Maip ez

[bright veldt]

The largest definite allosaurus is in the 2.5-3 ton category, but most are smaller

[undone parcel]

in the end who strike first usually wins

[clever sable]

Can AvA leave Paleo talks

[sullen cairn]

680 and maip are with like 200kg of each other

[chilly knot]

Nuh uh

[sullen cairn]

that ~3050kg maip weight was gdi'd or something right

[bright veldt]

Yes

[covert lintel]

when can we finally rest

[vocal breach]

Another megaraptor question, if we accept the theory that megaraptorans were related to Tyrannosaurus, would they have similar brain think smart or is it only present in the later Tyrannosaurs?

[sullen cairn]

how about we use that one megaraptor gdi for maip

[clever sable]

So what do we think this guy in the background is? It has feathers and pretty large arms but it's head kinda looks like a carcharadontosaurid head

[bright veldt]

We can only guess dinosaur intelligence in very general terms cause we know jack about the concept. I’d just assume most tyrannosauroids were similar in that regard.

[bright veldt]

The safest guess I’ve heard is Sinraptor. It’s like the one metriacanthosaur that has a sharper head.

[clever sable]

I'm guessing megaraptor of some sorta but idk

[vocal breach]

Imma guess an allosauroid or carcharadontosaurid

[woeful falcon]

sinraptor? jeesh

[chilly knot]

What's that in the foreground, that would clarify a lot

[sullen cairn]

the famous portezuelo gliding theropod

[light oxide]

Those aren't feathers, mate.

[undone parcel]

see the microraptoran-like maniraptor makes it hard cause im not sure if acro coexisted with any

[sullen cairn]

or was that murus i think one's los bastos or something

[bright veldt]

It’s uncomfortably similar to prologue giga tbh

[vocal breach]

Ignoring the arms it looks a lot like the Jwd giga

[bright veldt]

It’s just not as extreme in the features.

[heady thunder]

It reminds me of old carchs in docs.

[covert lintel]

are we 100% sure that those are feathers?

[undone parcel]

i settle on some form of asian theropod

[clever sable]

It looked spiky at first but it turns out those are actually feathers

[vocal breach]

I kinda want a scene in a Dino doc where mapus are attacking an argent and one of the mapus gets squished

[sullen cairn]

chilantaisaurus because that'd be a great idea to depict in anything

[chilly knot]

Siats

[undone parcel]

planet dinosaur

[clever sable]

We have that............

[bright veldt]

Implying we even know wtf Chilantai is

[vocal breach]

Paleo accurate Dino doc

[sullen cairn]

exactly

[undone parcel]

planet dinosaur was decent for its time

[bright veldt]

If it’s a paleo accurate doc than a Maip isn’t attacking a large titanosaur in the first place

[clever sable]

It's Anchiornis iirc

But I don't think there were any huge theropods that lived with anchi

[vocal breach]

Also how do Pt’s and Ti’s gigas hold up on accuracy?

[sullen cairn]

but that was an amazing debut for megaraptorans in film

[bright veldt]

PT’s is great. The new evrima giga is pretty cringe.

[woeful falcon]

I categorize all 2005-2021 docs as poopy doopy

[vocal breach]

Legacy giga is still better than evrima

[chilly knot]

Yea

[bright veldt]

Legacy’s accuracy wise is golden

[vocal breach]

Just need some lips and boom perfect

[undone parcel]

pretty sure TI dinosaurus are implied genetically tampered with so dont expect perfection

[clever sable]

I think we can all agree the best legacy designs were allo, carno and giga

[heady thunder]

[vocal breach]

Rex was also good for a little bit

[light oxide]

If it is that, then that would imply that the theropod in the background is Megaraptor namunhuaiquii.

[sullen cairn]

i was just joking about it being megaraptor

[light oxide]

Ah. XD

[vocal breach]

But then Pt’s Rex showed up

[clever sable]

Butbutbut, titanoboa: monster snake

[chilly knot]

Hopefully it's a based basal carch

[woeful falcon]

doesn't really strike me as basal

[sullen cairn]

siamraptor would be cool actually

[chilly knot]

Realing

[clever sable]

It's arms and the feathering are what throw me off

[undone parcel]

arent most basal carch heads the least carch looking

[bright veldt]

Eh imo 2007 was the last of good docs before PhP cause that year gave us this

[vocal breach]

Basal carchs when I exist

[sullen cairn]

jurassic basal carchs trying not to become megalosaurids

[heady thunder]

Arent they just allos

[sullen cairn]

tooth taxon moment

[chilly knot]

I agree because most basal carch heads aren't preserved

[undone parcel]

pretty sure conca is the best we got

[sullen cairn]

there's like mouth bits in a few

[chilly knot]

And acro

[clever sable]

That's because acro is just awesome (it's the most complete large carch iirc)

[light oxide]

Hmm, any clue as to what the microraptorid looking theropod is at the front?

[chilly knot]

Yes

[clever sable]

It's Anchiornis iirc

[sullen cairn]

giga's pretty good too

[undone parcel]

the formation anchiornis is from is full of tiny bird like dinos like Epidex and Yi Qi but nothing bigger then them

[light oxide]

No giant theropod though.

Hmm . . .

[bright veldt]

Meraxes be like

[undone parcel]

i know Planet Dinosaur just shoehorned Sinraptor in the Epidex segment as a cameo but..

[heady thunder]

Nice

[vocal breach]

When they gonna release montanaspinus

[light oxide]

Hmm, if it is a Anchiornithidae, then we may have to start looking in any nearby formations to find the mysterious large theropod shown.

Huh, interesting--

Apparently, there is an indetermined microraptoria in the Cloverly Formation, the one Acrocanthosaurus is in.

[bright veldt]

Microraptoria from what we understand was likely widespread in at least Asia and North America since they evolved. It’s just hard to find them outside of early Cretaceous china cause they’re tiny fragile bird things thatre super hard to fossilize save for volcanic ash

Hell Creek has its own undescribed microraptorine too

[pearl briar]

are there any hell creek ornithomimusaur/ornithomimid?

[bright veldt]

An undescribed one

[covert lintel]

Yeah

[sullen cairn]

i'm pretty sure at least some of the material is described

[bright veldt]

With me it’s half n half if I actually mean undescribed or just unnamed

[pearl briar]

what is the impossibility for shastasaurus to live in modern day?

[magic jacinth]

Venetoraptor is a interesting lad, never looked into pterosaur precursors before.

[keen forum]

https://tenor.com/view/greys-anatomy-atticus-lincoln-does-he-know-does-he-know-that-have-you-told-him-gif-26518253

[heady thunder]

What happened to Theri?

[rancid glade]

Hey guys I had some other questions I was hoping you could help me with?

So. Did the Columbian mammoth in it's most northern ranges see snow?

And did Smilodon I'm guessing Fatalis in North America co-exist with and potentially hunt woolly mammoths? Young/sick or old?

[undone parcel]

i..dont think smilodon ever coexisted with Wooly Mammoths...but im positive then did Columbians

[rancid glade]

I know they did Columbian mammoths, but I know woolly mammoths did get to North America and considering Smilodon Fatalis did live in North America my question arose from there

[undone parcel]

im just not sure if S. fatalis got far north

[lost hedge]

I’m not a big dinosaur fan so I probably don’t belong in this chat but why do pterosaurs look like they can’t fly with wings that small and thin and their heads looking large and heavy

[cloud dagger]

Iirc their bones were as lightweight as bird bones at least

[lost hedge]

But their wings still look so small compared to their body to be able to fly

[light oxide]

From what I found, Struthiomimus and Ornithomimus are in Hell Creek.

[light osprey]

Yeah I thought they were confidently assigned as well

[tiny holly]

When you compare them to birds it actually really isnt that weird. Their bodies were small and very very light. A lot of pterosaurs had a wing shape very similar to what we see in large soaring birds such as albatross. The main difference was their huge heads, which were very light as well anyway

What matters for flying is your horizontal surface area, because it helps provide lift. Wings are obviously the main contribution to this, but even the surface area of the body provides lift

Honestly pterosaurs all had really big wings compared to their bodies. There are birds capable of flight with waaay more ridiculous wing:body ratios. Auks are some of the extreme here

[stiff osprey]

Mainly because auks are tiny, if they were the size of an average pterosaur they wouldn't make enough lift to stay airborne

the pterosaur equivalent would be something like Thalassodromeus or Tupuxuara (badly posed, ignore that)

[tiny holly]

Oh for sure, its why so many bugs have such tiny wings. Pterosaurs tended to be pretty large so they can't get away with that so much

[gloomy elm]

I've got that on dvd

[frail robin]

What are the biggest Enantiornithines?

[astral kelp]

iirc the largest is Pengornis

[light osprey]

Doesn’t Avisaurus material suggest a pretty big size?

[light osprey]

Or Mirarce eatonis? Isn’t it big too

[compact leaf]

this is way late but it’s quiet in here and nobody ever answered you, they were generally a southern thing but it’s definitely possible that they say snow in the most northern part of their range

[sullen cairn]

larramendi has a tibiotarsus referred to soroavisaurus as the largest

[rancid glade]

Oh okay thank you!! 🙂 I really appreciate that you answered my question

And what about the woolly mammoth and Smilodon fatalis bit if you don't mind me enquiring?

[bright veldt]

I never really hear of smilodon hunting mammoths but it's definitely possible. Especially calves. Homotherium in particular were pretty proficient at it.

[rocky moat]

this is really awesome convo ngl

short faced bears i thought were the apex predators of the time but hearing now they most likely scavenged?

[bright veldt]

Arctodus had ecology basically identical to a grizzly's.

[astral kelp]

How accurate is this mod?

[bright veldt]

It's about right. It looks oversized in that image but in the context of PoT in general it's perfectly fine. Andrewsarchus's place as an "close to entelodont but not" in combination with all the remains of it being just the top jaw and some scraps means there's room for plenty of speculation.

[tough parcel]

Imo it's way too fat, but it's also just a skull so 🤷‍♂️

[bright veldt]

Conservative andrewsarchus is basically entelodont, but considering it isn't one and the remains are scrappy there's plenty of room for interpetation

[tough parcel]

Oh lol, my comment was deleted despite being a joke about how it's called a "conservative reconstruction" 😔

[sterile trail]

Boys, new Abelisaurid dropped https://www.sci.news/paleontology/moroccan-abelisaurid-dinosaurs-12207.html

[sullen cairn]

me when morocco gets abelisaurid material that isn't teeth or maxillarly/dentary fragments

[tough parcel]

(They're still fragments)

[sullen cairn]

but now it's appendicular fragments

[light osprey]

Would that be Chenanisaurus*?

[sullen cairn]

what?

yeah big guy's chenanisaurus

[rancid glade]

I've heard of Homotherium but you always see paleo art of the Smilodon hunting the woolly mammoth

However as stated Smilodon fatalis lived in north America along with the woolly mammoth in some areas as I know they reached North America so I naturally wondered if the Smilodon maybe did hunt the woolly mammoth after all

[light osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/wheres-the-other-one-ru-paul-robert-lee-aj-and-the-queen-finding-gif-16239957

[tough parcel]

They're unnamed

[sullen cairn]

either way we've now iirc doubled are amount of non-axial abelisaurid material from morocco (it was like two before but that's not the point)

[keen forum]

the feet and legs look a bit off, the legs look too short proportionally. the skull might be too short proportionally and the animal is a bit over sized here's some refs
https://twitter.com/GET_AWAY_TRIKE/status/1521382574160891906/photo/1

らえらぷす/『ディノペディア』好評発売中 (@GET_AWAY_TRIKE)

Speculative skeletal reconstruction of Andrewsarchus mongoliensis holotype AMNH 20135.
Mandible is Paratriisodon henanensis and rest of skeleton is based on entelodont.
Scale bar is 1m.

Likes

408

Twitter · May 3, 2022, 6:54 AM

[frail robin]

"Two T.Rex cousins..."
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1118966226417365112/1136664955144392795/7mmc6n.png

[clever sable]

Me when all of those news headlines are inaccurate (rex is still the largest terrestrial carnivore ever)

[covert lintel]

tbf, "dinosaur 7x bigger than t. rex discovered" may be correct, depending on which dinosaur it's talking about

[clever sable]

A dinosaur 7x bigger than rex would be like 70 tonnes..... I don't think we have discovered any of those anywhere close to recently

[polar root]

There the Dreadnoughtus schrani

But he's not in the 70

[frail robin]

Prehistoric Planet mentioned that Mongolia Titans weighed 70 tons iirc. But it may not be true, they decided to include Velociraptor in the end of the Cretaceous after all

[compact leaf]

the mongolian titan is also only known from a trackway

[sullen cairn]

70 tons is a tad larger than the maximum estimated size for the thing

[frail robin]

Also what was up with the "T.Rex was 70% bigger than we thought" thing?

[sullen cairn]

That was like the estimated maximum size a rex could possibly attain
Not based on any actual fossils

[frail robin]

I doubt Rex would manage to live that long

[frail robin]

So I assume it's like, hypothetically how large a T.Rex could get before not being able to support itself?

[sullen cairn]

Pretty much

[frail robin]

Oh
Tbh you can apply that to every animal. Technically a lobster can reach insane sizes, however it will never happen naturally

So I bet my entire life that T.Rex could NEVER reach that size

[sullen cairn]

Yeah it’s more of a hypothetical

[bright veldt]

I'd like to reiterate how little we actually know about andrewsarchus. All of these things stated are more or less speculation that easily could not be correct. The mod's version is nothing out of line for a whippomorph while still keeping consistent with what little we actually have of andrew.

[frail robin]

"Hypothetically" racoons can reach 30 years of age, yet in the wild they only live for about 2
"Hypothetically" a pigeon could kill me
And "hypothetically" PoT could make good pterosaur designs

[sullen cairn]

someone's probably died to a pigeon in some incredibly convoluted fashion

[undone parcel]

get hit in the head hard enough

[frail robin]

Get stabbed, have a pigeon poop on the wound and die of infection

[undone parcel]

die from choking on pigeon

[covert lintel]

would pigeon fancier's lung count? (lung porblems stemming from Bird Dust)

[sullen cairn]

sure

[covert lintel]

someone definitely has, then

[sullen cairn]

what a way to go

[frail robin]

Have an open heart surgery and a pigeon flies in and pecks your arteries open

[sullen cairn]

tripping on pigeon

[undone parcel]

meet the medic moment

[frail robin]

Accidentally run a pigeon over and the mafia come for you because it was the Godfather's pet pigeon and now you will be tortured and killed

[undone parcel]

shot the courier pigeon in WW1 now the whole enemy wants your head

[frail robin]

"Archimedes, no! It's filthy in there, eugh!... Ha, birds!"

[frail robin]

Get eaten alive by pigeons that caught a mutated version of rabies

[undone parcel]

animal planets sequal to Blood lake sounds lit..

[light osprey]

What is transpiring in this chat

[compact leaf]

chaos, but a better brand of chaos than usual

[frail robin]

I asked about the "Rex was 70% bigger" thing and it was just hypothetical. Like how big a T.Rex could get before not being able to function. I then used ridiculous examples to prove my point, which was that T.Rex could NOT get 70% bigger

[pearl briar]

"t. rex cousins" they're not even related
one is abelisaur, other is tyrannosaur
i hate when thing like this always happen

[sterile trail]

so we now have a tyrannosaur from 3/7 continents

[bright veldt]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxDsUFIlFBabgRO6v4oRxyglX109i1bK-h?si=Hd32vVBJw1CYMZU6