paleontology

[quaint isle]

Barsboldia was a little shorter than Tyrannosaurus, at least 33 feet

[compact leaf]

right around 10m is the safest estimate right now

[snow python]

So that 46 feet estimation is outdated?

[compact leaf]

it’s based off scaling the legs to magnapaulia so I wouldn’t use it

[quaint isle]

Shantugasaurus was probably around that size though

[snow python]

Shant and edmonto are still the largest

[covert lintel]

every time i think about Big Paul it brings me great joy

[compact leaf]

Big Paul is just wonderful, 10/10 best hadrosaur

[kind narwhal]

Compy solos deinosuchus

[heady thunder]

Whats Big Paul?

[covert lintel]

magnapaulia's generic name, when translated literally, means Big Paul

[clever sable]

Do you guys think a 7500 KG sarcosuchus is plausible for an exceptionally large individual?

[clever sable]

This is definitely Gonna get deleted by a staff member (sadly)

[chilly knot]

try to rizz on allo ai

[sage cave]

[light osprey]

Rizz

[tight kettle]

Please remember to remain on topic with the channel. Refer to the pinned messages and #rules before posting.

[clever sable]

Tbh, you guys sound like bots half the time

[light osprey]

It ate those big herbivores

[clever sable]

It ate those big herbivores, Edmontosaurus and triceratops were probably somewhat common prey items, although I'm guessing Edmonto was hunted far more often given the massive risks that would come with attempting to hunt a triceratops

It also probably ate anky from Time to time

[heady thunder]

Those are average sizes for everthing?

[clever sable]

Idk

[light osprey]

Seem to be for the most part

[clever sable]

I just got it from Wikipedia because it's like the only place I can find that has a clean looking size comparison that includes most of the creatures

[light osprey]

Or maybe not? The triceratops is averaged sized I think

[covert lintel]

edmonto is at close to max size, iirc the average is smaller than that

[light osprey]

The sizes are large fellas how about that 😐

[novel atlas]

https://twitter.com/caxela1/status/1677331827197968384?t=Tv6SnZ_yKVacv3RE8cmBrQ&s=19

caxela (@caxela1)

Triassic Coast

(Tanystropheus and beached Besanosaurus)

Likes

532

Retweets

116

Twitter · Jul 7, 2023, 3:00 PM

[heady thunder]

Yeah I thought so, looked very big for smth where the average specimen is like 9 tons.
Rex might also be based on Sue or smth

[woeful falcon]

this page gives a description of all the animals lengths for that image
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hell_Creek_Formation_Fauna.png

[main peak]

Question for you lovely paleo-nerds. For pure speculative purposes, suppose that Bahariasaurus was indeed a neovenatorid or noasaurid that reached 10-12 meters long and was in the 4 tonne range. What niche would it fill? That is ridiculously light weight and it seems strange for a megapredator. What would it hunt, how would it hunt (especially if it did indeed only have two fingers), what did it specialize in?

Just curious if anyone else has thoughts

[clever sable]

That's not very light, that's similar in weight to acrocanthosaurus and tarbosaurus

[heady thunder]

Wait tarbo is same weight as acro?

[woeful falcon]

about ya. enough to say they are similarly sized animals

[heady thunder]

Tarbo W I thought it was smaller.

[main peak]

Acro was a max of 6.6 tonnes and was 11.5 meters, so still heaver

[clever sable]

The most recent estimates for acro put it around 5.7 tons

[main peak]

I'm talking tonnes

[clever sable]

Yeah that's what I meant

[main peak]

At what length?

[clever sable]

11.7 meters iirc

[clever sable]

Tbh, those are very similar proportions to torvosaurus tanneri

[main peak]

Hmm well still the lowest estimate for Acro has it at 5750 kg and the highest for Baharia is 3000 kg with a length of 39 feet

[little mauve]

If it is a giant noasaurid it may not be a megapredator after all. It could be some kind of specialist or even a herbivore/omnivore. It's the new deinocheirus in a lot of ways, so much room to speculate due to lack of (definitive) material. I would guess it was doing something pretty unique whatever it was

[main peak]

Still lighter than the lightest estimate for torvosaurus tanneri which was 3600 kg at 33 ft

[clever sable]

Yeah, use tons of KG

[main peak]

Thanks for answering the question! That is a good point of course, would be lovely if we actually had Deltadromeus' or Baharia's skull right? Though some Noasaurids certainly were mainly predators

[main peak]

Hmm, no. I used lbs intentionally because it's more specific.

[clever sable]

Im just saying KG is better, but on topic, we don't really have enough material to determine the exact niche it filled in terms of how it hunted

[main peak]

That is why I asked for speculation

[deft sigil]

A reminder to please view pinned messages for appropriate paleo-chat topics. We recommend all off-topic conversations for paleo-chat be directed to DM's, the appropriate channel or another server entirely.
We will start deleting off-topic conversations or muting users that remain off topic

[clever sable]

Well, it probably filled the niche of Apex predator possibly? I don't really know much about it but it easily could be the apex predator of it's environment

[astral kelp]

I’ve been hearing 5.8t but that doesn’t matter

[covert lintel]

i'm inclined to agree, noasaurids are really variable in terms of niche

[main peak]

In the same environment as Carcharodontosaurus and Spinosaurus? I kinda doubt it

[main peak]

The question is, what kind of niche does a 12m, 4 tonne noasaurid fill lol?

[clever sable]

I don't really know much about it tbh

[clever sable]

Ok, yeah it probably wasn't an apex predator, but spino also wasn't an apex predator either

Carch was most definitely the Apex predator of it's environment

[light osprey]

The question in question being?

[main peak]

This

[light osprey]

Some are considered cursorial, maybe it was a pursuit predator

[main peak]

I considered that too, it fits tbh.

[light osprey]

Plenty of room for Carcharodontosaurus, Bahariasaurus, and Spinosaurus to coexist

[little mauve]

You're welcome, it's definitely something I've pondered before. We definitely need skulls to really get anywhere with respect to diet, for sure. The herbivore thing intrigues me because of things like Limusaurus & elaphrosaurids in general, we know some ceratosaurs experimented in that direction & apart from sauropods it seems like we're missing some herbivore diversity in the southern continents. Perhaps more types of ceratosaurs (or some strange types of basal coelurosaurs, which Bahari/deltadromeus may be as well) were exploiting those niches. It certainly could have been a predator as well, not uncommon for there to be multiple large predatory theropods in the same formation

[main peak]

I'm just hoping that some day Bahariasaurus' skull is discovered with upscaled Masiakasaurus' teeth lol

[little mauve]

That would be pretty interesting for sure!

[pearl briar]

does a 3.5-4.3 tons sarco is still accurate?

[clever sable]

There is this chart (bolded estimates are the ones that are more likely)

[pearl briar]

i don't understand allat 😭😭😭 💀💀💀😔😔😔

[chilly knot]

Somewhere between 3-5.3t whatever

[pearl briar]

does 10.13 meters long sarco is max length?

wait can i use 9.5-10.13 meters long sarco?

[chilly knot]

I wouldn't nessecarily say it's the absolute max you can get

[snow pivot]

Please lord i dont wanna see the anime girl comparison again where is grey man 😭😭😭

[chilly knot]

Yea

[pearl briar]

thank u lambor
next time use 6 ft tall grey man for comparison

[chilly knot]

No, never

[pearl briar]

fair enough

mind blowing sekali

[clever sable]

There have been Humans bigger than Utahraptor I believe

[pearl briar]

nikocado avocado???

[snow pivot]

No way nik is only 300

[clever sable]

He lost a ton of weight recently I believe

[snow pivot]

A google searched has showed he is
In his own way
Trying to lose weight and has lost over 90 pounds since being 400
So yeah u right
Maybe hes finally giving up the act

Oviraptor is just a stain left on the ground then

[pearl briar]

now why are we talkin abt ourselves (humans in general)

[snow pivot]

Hell he almost challenges a medium Utahraptor in weight

[vocal breach]

Isn’t Utah around 800 pounds?

[snow pivot]

Well G O O G L E is saying 660-2600 pounds

[astral kelp]

Utah is around 500kg iirc

[vocal breach]

2,600 way too much, I think absolute max is like 1,100

Jesus…

[snow pivot]

Well the average human is like what 180 pounds and the heaviest was 7 times that amount so i dont think its unfair to say that Utahraptor couldve not been over 2000 pounds

[vocal breach]

Eh, I stick with 1,100 for max, I think Utah is similar in weight to dilo

[pearl briar]

what is more accurate sarco + human size comparison???

[stiff osprey]

much as it pains me, the middle one
other two are hella oversized

[clever sable]

Sadly the middle one

[pearl briar]

aww man
@stiff osprey sarco is the best but the 3rd images is very oversized

ok then...

[light osprey]

Wait why is it so sad?

[stiff osprey]

because the middle one looks like ass lol

[stoic tinsel]

you dont like Hoshino Ai used as the human scale?

[snow pivot]

No

[clever sable]

Because the middle one sucks ass

[light osprey]

Like the design?

[clever sable]

Yeah

[light osprey]

Ah

[pearl briar]

accurate size comparsion? (ignore the lipless rex)

[snow pivot]

I cant ignore the lipless t rex (you will die in 5 seconds)
I believe tyrannosaurus might be a little too big

[pearl briar]

5 sec has passed
(sike i'm still alive)

[snow pivot]

[pearl briar]

oh no i'm a nerd 🤓🤓🤓

[snow pivot]

But the elephant might be too small and the rex might be too big

Actually i dont know
Elephant might be right but one google search is saying 10-20 feet tall for t rex

And 20 foot rex is F-ing insane i gotta dive deeper into this

Yeah google is just stupid
Sue and scotty are around 13 feet at the hip
Theoretically there could be a bigger t rex but none have been found yet

And that tyrannosaurus is slightly shorter than the current biggest by like 4 feet

[west drum]

Regarding pigment cells found on dinosaurs, what were the most common colourations? It seems from a few fossils it’s more on a scale of reds

[heady thunder]

That Rex is Sue right?

[eager skiff]

Yes

[heady thunder]

Seems like everyone and their mom uses Sue, anyone have a skeletal comparison with Sue and some other more mid Rex specimen, like idk, Stan?

[eager skiff]

I dont but sues second largest tyrannosaurus specimen and stan is above average iirc

[heady thunder]

The average Trex is like 12m long and Sue is like close to 13 right?

[eager skiff]

I think, sues larger than scotty in length but scotty is heavier im pretty sure

[next moss]

Average rex is 11.5-11.6m, possibly could be larger tho

[heady thunder]

I found this one, kinda obselete now but it works in showing the difference between a mid rex vs a big one I guess

[heady thunder]

Yeah I just said 12m cos thats what Ive been hearing of the average Rex being for my whole life so I went with it.

[pearl briar]

maybe using both random & dan folkes i can get rex length at 11.6-12.3 meters long

[sudden wind]

There are some smaller mature individuals, but yeah 11.6-12.4 meters long is between average and max from fossil record.

[heady thunder]

Isnt Scotty like near 13m?

[white matrix]

Sue and Scotty are both 12.6

Though Persons claims 13m isn't unreasonable for Scotty

[pearl briar]

so...
if ur still awake...
...
should i use 11.6-12.3 or 11.5-12.4?

[heady thunder]

Shouldnt it be 12.6 if Sue and Scotty are that length?

[pearl briar]

i-
...

i'm just gonna stick to 11.6-12.3 meters long
@stiff osprey i'm srry for the ping but if ur still awake, how heavy is ur MOR 555?

[chilly knot]

Doesn't matter those are just 10cm

[chilly knot]

About 7t, but wankel is also quite skinny

[pearl briar]

oh so it's just 7 ton?
if no. 7.?

[chilly knot]

6.9997268827

[heady thunder]

7.5 after it demolished the local adolescent edmontosaurus

[pearl briar]

oh...
ok imma stick to 7.0 tons

[sudden wind]

12.4 given that Sue and Scotty are roughly 12.36 or 12.37.

[pearl briar]

oki

[pearl briar]

does a 10.3-11 meters long & 5.16-6 tons puru is still accurate?

[heady thunder]

No, 10.28-11.01

[keen forum]

i know atm random got 12.4m for sue and scotty seems to flux so yeah i agree

[keen forum]

largest puru from what i can recall is 10.8m but that was before the whole it may have a larger head for its body size thing

[snow pivot]

How about we say 11 meters and 6 tons and call it a day

[heady thunder]

Rounding up is always cool

[snow pivot]

Is it possible that pycno and carno are the same dinosaur

[heady thunder]

No? Maybe since they were like close geographically but I doubt the time periods and other stuff match

[light osprey]

Pycnonemosaurus is within Carnotaurus’ temporal range.

[heady thunder]

The possibility of the paleontological community being trolled exists and Im all here for it

[light osprey]

In all seriousness iirc the material we do have shows characteristics not seen in Carnotaurus so they seem to be distinct from one another.

[heady thunder]

Dont we have only one carno skeletal?

[woeful falcon]

its known from only one specimen yes

[heady thunder]

Hmmmm, so one for each, same time zone, close by.
Prime trolling potential.

[woeful falcon]

well one's in southern argentina and the other central brazil but, close enough for people not to care I imagine

call it carno's northern range

[light osprey]

Devious stuff

[stiff osprey]

So when are we extending this logic to T.rex being found in Central America?

[woeful falcon]

never Tyrannosaurus is a flag waving, beer drinking, red blooded american and we lent it to canada

[light osprey]

Let’s go crazy and extend ranges to places with 0 fossil evidence. Russian Tarbosaurus is a go

[stiff osprey]

We already have a giant tyrannosaurine from the Russian Amur region 😈

[sudden wind]

How diagnostic is Pycnonemosaurus anyway?

Also, in most phylogeny matrix, this one is always put as a more basal animal than Carnotaurus within Furileusauria so I suspect that they wouldn't be the same animal.

[light osprey]

Wait those are giant tyrannosaurine remains up there?

[stiff osprey]

the metacarpal is larger than Sue's

[light osprey]

Well darn

[stiff osprey]

I just tested it, the same travel distance required to introduce Carnotaurus and Pycnonemosaurus to each other could also bring a T.rex to Guatemala

[clever sable]

Well, you gotta change up the map a little bit to match how it looked back when they lived

[fallen warren]

Spinosaurus is they most mysterious dinosaur know to man because it gets more confusing the more we learn about it change my mind.

[stiff osprey]

I think Guatemala was mostly underwater at that point. wouldn't change the distance tho

[clever sable]

Not really tbh, we know basically what it looked like, it's not even all that fragmentary

[heady thunder]

Siberian Rex, POG

[fallen warren]

True but still hard to determine some things

[clever sable]

We have all this material and that's not even counting the holotype that was destroyed

[stiff osprey]

Spinosaurus is the most mysterious dinosaur because we basically have a complete skeleton by this point and yet still know heck all about it

[clever sable]

We know it ate fish but we don't know how it caught the fish

[light osprey]

Or did it 😳

[clever sable]

It ate wombats fr fr

Do you guys think a mastodonsaurus could eat a human if presented the opportunity? And if it could do you think it would

[heady thunder]

Whats that thing?

[stiff osprey]

Yes and yes. It's an amphibian, if it fits in its mouth it will be eaten (and sometimes if it doesn't too)

[clever sable]

This guy

[heady thunder]

Bro this aint a question that thing would probably eat a cow.

[clever sable]

So, do we know what this guy primarily ate? I'm guessing it mostly at fish and smaller amphibians

[heady thunder]

Head screams fisheater

[light osprey]

That’s some nice paleoart

[clever sable]

Yeah, that's my thought process but you never know, tomistomas eat all kinds of things

[heady thunder]

Tomistomas have a sarco like skull to be fair compared to that thing.

[clever sable]

Fr, I wish I was this good at Paleo art

[clever sable]

This guy was almost in primeval horizon

[clever sable]

Amphibians are built different, btw, could this guy walk on land?

[stiff osprey]

no idea, I would assume it was very slow if it could

[white matrix]

Ohh this fella the Prionosuchus we have been checking this fella, its the longest amphibian rn

[heady thunder]

Is it da biggest?

[white matrix]

Its the longest the largest might be Mastodonsaurus

[tranquil quartz]

Prionosuchus imo probably filled a similar niche to a Gharial,

[tranquil quartz]

And yeah iirc the largest Mastodonosaurus estimates put it at 2000kg

[orchid sierra]

I’m not sure, so I’m asking you guys how many fossils are there of the Diabloceratops

[white matrix]

6 m aprox i might be working to do a 3d model of Prionosuchus

[white matrix]

Not so many of them but enough to use its cousins to complete it.

[orchid sierra]

Thanks

[tranquil quartz]

M. giganteus is 2-2.1 metric tonnes and around 7m, whilst we don’t have many fossils of Priono using its relatives we can make estimates that it was around 1.7-1.8 tonnes and most definitely longer at around 9m.

[clever sable]

What was the first prehistoric croc to adopt the iconic croc body plan

[white matrix]

I estimated close to 8 m

[heady thunder]

Does Oxalaia even exist?

[light osprey]

What do you think 🧐

[stiff osprey]

No, you are in an alternate reality where Spinosaurus quilombensis is its own genus. Wake up, they miss you

[heady thunder]

Idk I heard about it, forgot about it, then remembered it and didnt know if it was changed or smth

[light osprey]

It’s definitely a term which describes an animal

[heady thunder]

Ok so its still valid, neat, what does it look like? Any skeletals?

[compact leaf]

the remains were destroyed so we know it exists and was most recently synonymous with spinosaurus but other than that we can’t say anything

[heady thunder]

Huh, getting your remains destroyed must be a spinosaurine trait

[tranquil quartz]

Imo its most plausible for it to just be another species of Spinosaurus

[light osprey]

It’s been synonymised, but there wasn’t much to begin with

[white matrix]

Tyrannosaurus was ambidextrous

[snow pivot]

Tyrannosaurus using tools? Question mark?

Its arms are as big as ours so
Im sure if you gave it somthing it would grab it like how chameleons do

[elfin pulsar]

Lol

[pastel tartan]

What do we know about this guy

Tully monster

I’ll take that as a no

[snow pivot]

Accuracy?

I tink its a litle too big and by a little i mean by several feet

[pastel tartan]

Isn’t the average 8-11 tons

[pearl briar]

rex specimen "MOR 555" was 11.6 meters & 7.0 tons, it was an average rex specimen

[pearl briar]

average is like 7-8, max is like 9-10.4

[pastel tartan]

I thaught the max was 11-12

Also is the new aquatic a ichthyosaur

[woeful falcon]

what new aquatic

[pastel tartan]

Theres a new aquatic called eurhinosaurus

[ancient crystal]

Its not new if it hasn't released yet, and if it has released and I'm hearing about it first from paleo chat of all things I'm going to be sad

[woeful falcon]

eurhino is an ichthyosaur tho, yes

[pastel tartan]

Whatever dude. Ty blub

[orchid sierra]

What Dinosaur who lived in Bangladesh?

[pearl briar]

only bangladesh or all south asia?

[orchid sierra]

Only Bangladesh

[little mauve]

Most of Bangladesh has sediments too young for dinosaurs, it's Cenozoic sedimentary rocks. It is part of the Indian subcontinent geologically speaking and the dinosaurs would have been similar overall

[orchid sierra]

O

[little mauve]

It was part of the subcontinent when it was an island for most of the Cretaceous period & we know from India that there were titanosaurs like Isisaurus and abelisaurs like Rajasaurus, among others, living throughout that island

[astral kelp]

I still find it funny that dire wolf remains revealed that dire wolves evolved on their own branch of the evolutionary tree, separate from the lineage that led to wolves, coyotes, and dogs, and that dire wolves would be placed in a different genus (Aenocyon dirus)

Yet people still think dire wolves are actual wolves.

[light osprey]

Look him in the eyes before I die- oh wait 😐

[white matrix]

Move my head and strangle it, easy win no diff

[chilly knot]

Suplex

[pastel tartan]

Anyone?

[chilly knot]

https://tenor.com/view/jujutsu-kaisen-megumi-fushiguro-aoi-todo-german-suplex-gif-23759522

[pearl briar]

ghost ping???
what???

oh well...
is this accurate for hell creek?

[pastel tartan]

Trex was probably pretty even with trice and anky probably didnt stand a chance if it was a successful ambush

[grim beacon]

So like I’m not sure if this rlly belongs here but I rlly wanted to show this off cuz I’m rlly proud of it! I wanted to make a tribute vid to all my fav dino docs and series! Lemme know what y’all think!
https://youtu.be/GMTpep18W7U

[light osprey]

Stand a chance at what

[stoic tinsel]

the average is between like upper 6 ton to 8 ton ranges

[pastel tartan]

Beating trex

[stoic tinsel]

also keep in mind a vast majority of the tyrannosaurus we have arent even full grown we have a lot of subadults but not a lot of adults

[light osprey]

Ah ok

[idle tinsel]

I wish dinosaurs were real

[clever sable]

As in you wish they still existed or you do you not believe they existed ever

[stoic tinsel]

either way it doesnt make sense cause we have birds

[pastel tartan]

First one makes sense because it’s pretty obvious they mean non avian

[pearl briar]

spino bombin

[clever sable]

Stomato bombing

[snow pivot]

Oxalaia bombing?

[pearl briar]

what is more accurate diplo(docus) + human size comparison???

[snow pivot]

2nd image is better for diPLODOcus

[tiny holly]

diplo(docus) is valid considering the intention was shortening the whole name to just diplo. No one shortens it to "plodo"

[cosmic barn]

But i do agree picture 2 seems the most accurate, but picture 3 isnt too far off either

[bitter oasis]

@snow pivot Please be polite and respectful towards other members. Refer to our #rules .

[pearl briar]

bcuz if i just said diplo, then what diplo do i mean???
diplo as in diplodocus, or diplo as in diplocaulus???

[frosty anvil]

Im sure they'd understand given the topic of the conversation
However if the topic is both just say the full name its just a few more letters

[pearl briar]

i like to shorten names

[snow pivot]

No
My opinion on the pronunciation of diplodocus is OBVIOUSLY correct see

[tiny holly]

Its not even about the pronounciation tho :P never was

[snow pivot]

And thats all i have to say about that

[tiny holly]

i mean when you look at how long some animal names get yeah. I could say metriacanthosaurus or I could just say metri.

[pearl briar]

Rex: will buying clothes at clothes store
Spino: will buying clothes at soup store

[tranquil quartz]

what

[sudden wind]

If we go by modern ecology, predators dying to their preys are extremely rare cases. They will avoid getting themselves in fatal situations so I doubt that a Trike or Anky killing a Rex was that common. I guess that if a Rex does not get its ambush right, it will suffer from some injuries if it is desperate. Otherwise, it would simply avoid the situation and try later on. Though, those preys are well capable of fending off this predator, once a certain size.

[viscid surge]

Its not as bad as it could be

[snow pivot]

WHY ARE YOU BUYING CLOTHES AT THE SOUP STORE???

[heady thunder]

Kurzgesagts designs are cartoony, thats a cartoony spoon,

[viscid surge]

Hol up… it’s arms are longer than it’s legs… and it’s feet are backwar-

[snow pivot]

Oh lord..

[tranquil quartz]

Also wth going with the mouth

[woeful falcon]

wydm

[tranquil quartz]

The teeth

Also this part of the upper jaw is weird

[woeful falcon]

I say anything that looks weird can be narrowed down to them using very specific shapes in the design, which is limiting

[light osprey]

this is a cartoon why are we critiquing it

[tranquil quartz]

Idek

[quaint isle]

Can I get the link for the suggestion page

[tranquil quartz]

#suggestions

[white matrix]

It fun

[frigid coral]

It’s stylized I don’t think it’s meant to be accurate, regardless I really like this

[small geyser]

This is a stylized piece of artwork so we can’t really critique it’s accuracy compared to realistic paleo art.

[clever sable]

13 meters and like 35 tons iirc for livyatan

[frigid coral]

does anyone have a front and side view of the pinacosaurus skull ONLY? I am modeling a Pinaco atm and its hard to tell for the skull in the image im using

[small temple]

Does this help?

[frigid coral]

yeah! still need a front view, but this helps a ton, thanks!

[small temple]

It’s surprisingly difficult finding a fully front facing view, the closest I could find fairly accurate was this 3/4 side view, I hope it at least helps a little bit

[opaque granite]

Wait is a pinaco and an anky the same Dino or am I dumb lol

[small temple]

They’re different, but from the same family if I’m not mistaken

[frigid coral]

very different, same family, extremely different dinosaurs

[opaque granite]

To me they looks similar but tbh I haven't seen a side by side pic of them to notice differencees

[small temple]

Yeah, it’s an Ankylosaurid.
For example Ceratopsians, a Styrokasaurus and a Triceratops are from the same family but very different dinos

[frigid coral]

this is pinacosaurus for a bit of context

this is ankylosaurus

[opaque granite]

So the pinaco is slightly smaller in hieght am I right and the anky is a slightly stockier build

[small temple]

This is a Stegouros, another ankosaurid

[frigid coral]

pinaco is a lot smaller, closer to the ground, and has a smaller beak, anky is taller, (likely) differently shaped scutes and yeah, stockier

[opaque granite]

Ahhh Oki

[small temple]

Stegouros’ tail had ostioderms that fused together at the tip instead of a tail club

[frigid coral]

i am stealing this

[opaque granite]

So do you think we may ever get an anky or something else from that general family like we have styracosaurus and alberto's and trikes

[tough parcel]

Don't, it was extremely fast 😭 I felt lazy and only wanted a general picture, there's a better Anky thing coming soon™️

[small temple]

Hopefully

[frigid coral]

alr!

[opaque granite]

Imagine the anky just stomping around like a godamn land tank

[small temple]

Ikr!

[astral kelp]

anodontosaurus

[opaque granite]

Huh

Which one that

[ancient crystal]

The one that makes the snorting sounds, has the general build of a table, and is hated by a large part of the community

[opaque granite]

Never seen it tbh 😂

[pastel tartan]

Is anky bigger than ano

[stoic tinsel]

yes like four times larger

[woeful falcon]

Hi

Stegouros actually isn't an Ankylosaurid, its a parankylosaurian, a related but separate grouping from Nodosaurids and Ankylosaurids

[elfin pulsar]

By a LOT

[astral kelp]

Ano is a literal coffee table

[pastel tartan]

Soo we talkin stego size trice size or what

[elfin pulsar]

Anky or ano?

[pastel tartan]

Anky

[elfin pulsar]

Iirc this is pretty accurate, could be wrong #paleontology message

If you are basing ano off PoT don’t PoT ano is super oversized

[astral kelp]

Ano in PoT is anky sized. call it anky at that point.

[pastel tartan]

I wish anky was the size of jw anky

[elfin pulsar]

I’m gonna call it ano still.

[elfin pulsar]

How much bigger is jw anky to irl anky?

Got damn

[pastel tartan]

Ok i just checked lemme adjust

@elfin pulsar

[pastel tartan]

This is inaccurate

[stark pasture]

How so? Looking at the movies they seem about right.

[valid oriole]

Helloooo

Alguém fala português e me explica oque tem que fazer aqui?

[pastel tartan]

Because in jw the anky was about double the height of the ball thing and that ball was like double the height of a person

[tough parcel]

Eu não falo português, mas esse é um papo de dinossauro de verdade, não o do jogo

Desculpe

[hallow spear]

Its an ANkylosaurian but not an ankylosaurid

[small temple]

Oh yeah, sorry, autocorrect suckss and I didn’t noticed

[pearl briar]

oh no i'm wrong
dies & then explodes

[pastel tartan]

Did quetzal run decently fast?

[white matrix]

Yea

[pearl briar]

@hallow spear i'm sorry for the ping but if ur still awake, i just wanted to say thank you

[eager skiff]

I think the spinos a bit too big in the picture and the weight may be able to get to 7.8-8.2... but idk

[snow pivot]

What were some upper estimates for tarchia

Actually whats known about tarchia have there been many fossils?

[stoic tinsel]

Tarchia is known from a lot of material.

If ZPAL MgD I/113 belongs to tarchia, the largest size would be between 5.6-6.7 meters and a bit over 3 tonnes.

[tranquil quartz]

Iirc its speculated to have the capability of galloping when hunting on the ground, so it could most definitely move fast.

[pearl briar]

what is theri most up-to-date length & weight?

[astral kelp]

5.5t weight length 9m iirc

[snow python]

Is Himalayasaurus still valid. Some say is synonym with Thalattoarchon

[stoic tinsel]

Nah it's valid

[stoic tinsel]

uhhh no theri is like 7.8 tonnes

[pearl briar]

wait what?
says who???

[stoic tinsel]

https://www.thecodontia.com/blog/reconstructing-the-giant-sloth-dinosaur-therizinosaurus

Dan Folkes

[astral kelp]

no theri got downsized, thats not accurate anymore, its 5.5t

[stoic tinsel]

uhhh when?

[astral kelp]

it was awhile ago but, Dan has tested for Version 2 to be more plausible and accurate, which came out as 5.5t from the gdi

[pearl briar]

bro where the hell is the ver2 weight??????

[light oxide]

I mean, if its leg structure is very similar to those of vampire bats and giraffes, ye would assume it would move fast. XD

[tranquil quartz]

What happened to the pair of batteries?

[hallow spear]

He hasnt added it yet but its 5.5t i gdied it. and also, do not use the v1 estimates. V2 estimate is objectively more accurate

[light osprey]

That’s lovely

[kind narwhal]

What is the weight of purussaurus, deinosuchus, stomatosuchus, sarchosuchus and rhamposuchus

[tranquil quartz]

Iirc deino is 9-15 tons and Sarco is 4.5t. Dk bout the others though.

[clever sable]

Largest deino specimen is 13-15 tons, puru is like 5.9 tons iirc and sarco is 5.4 tons

[mighty swan]

So I been working on a paper and for reasons I’ve decided to scrap what I have done so far just to completely rewrite it all

[chilly knot]

Imo puru can be higher than that

[clever sable]

Probably, but around 6 tons is what I've been hearing

[stiff osprey]

smallest estimate puru used alongside maximum estimate deino 💀

[chilly knot]

Biggest puru is quite fragmentary, I wouldn't be surprised if it's like 8t<

[clever sable]

I didn't realize 5.9 tons is the minimum

[stiff osprey]

from skull to femur to dorsal vertebrae, all preserved elements are similar in size between Deinosuchus and Purussaurus

deino's a little larger, but if we are to give 13-15t estimates to Deinosuchus, then the biggest Puru would be around 11-12t

of course, neither is particularly likely

[clever sable]

Wasn't the skull used for fadenos estimate like, 2 meters long?

[swift osprey]

Is this a realistic t rex ?

[sage cave]

brotha

[astral kelp]

blud, no.

[swift osprey]

Is this carno realistic ?

[clever sable]

No, not at all

[stray wren]

Pretty close, actually, for the Carno

[clever sable]

Kinda? It's definitely not bad, not perfect though, or even close to perfect

Oh no, alderon koala is typing, they are probably gonna be like "uhm guys keep the channel on topic 🤓"

[sage cave]

Man be nice to the mods they r just doing their job

[swift osprey]

Koalas can talk ? And moderate tk maxx dinosaurs

[stiff osprey]

the largest individual that has a skull preserved would be around 1.68m, with CM 963 (has no skull) potentially being larger

[swift osprey]

Microraptors skull is a microwave 💀💀💀🖥️🖥️🖥️🖥️🖥️🦅🦅🦅🦅

[clever sable]

Puru is literally the best (sarco is also awesome), btw, what's the largest true croc, as in it's in the Crocodylus genus

[chilly knot]

Crocodylus thorbjarnarsoni

[clever sable]

Ok, thx, how long ago did that live?

[chilly knot]

Pliocene-Pleistocene

I think the youngest stuff was around 1.5 million years old

[white matrix]

I want to get into paleontology but im not sure how?

[light osprey]

One of the best I’ve seen

[light osprey]

Hang around this channel. Occasionally people discuss things relating to the actual science of paleontology.

[pastel tartan]

ehhh

[white matrix]

okay

[tranquil quartz]

Yes!

[swift osprey]

What dinosaur is this

[light osprey]

Heck I’ll insight some discussion rn (hopefully). Anyone know what red sedimentary beds connote?

[tranquil quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/king-shark-suicide-squad-bird-jamegunn-thesuicidesquad-gif-22066177

[swift osprey]

What is this from

[ancient crystal]

The better suicide squad movie

[swift osprey]

Ultimate humor

[tranquil quartz]

On a serious note though its a Australian Pied Cormorant

[pastel tartan]

Here’s a good question for general paleontology. how do scientists find out how old something is

[swift osprey]

They count the rings in the bone ?

[clever sable]

Carbon dating I believe

[tranquil quartz]

Doesn’t that mean its an oxygenated environment iirc?

[pastel tartan]

How does carbon dating work?

[clever sable]

Oh, you meant how old the creature itself is

[ancient crystal]

Carbon dating is never used for dinosaur bones they are too old for the method to be effective

[pastel tartan]

Then how do we know how old they are?

[tranquil quartz]

The rocks the fossils were found in iirc

[clever sable]

For dinosaurs I believe we just look at the sediments where the material was found

[ancient crystal]

Uranium isotopes used on the surrounding rock, which follow the same pricipal as carbon dating but are effective for much much longer

[light osprey]

Hmm 🤔 that’s all it implies?

[pastel tartan]

What is a uranium isotope?

[tranquil quartz]

Idk 💀

[light osprey]

Where’s gbones when you need em

[ancient crystal]

An isotope of uranium, they decay to half the original amount over a certain amount of time called a half life. We can use that to determine an inorganic thing's age.

[pastel tartan]

What is a isotope

[tranquil quartz]

Its an atom which has a different number of neutrons to that of the standard element. For example carbon 12, carbon 13, carbon 14 are all isotopes

[pastel tartan]

Ok thank you (don’t worry ik what a neutron and atom is)

[ancient crystal]

Carbon 17 is what is used for carbon dating iirc, but its only usable for a few thousand years.

Uranium isotope dating is good for billions of years iirc

[little mauve]

What's up

[light osprey]

Red bed sediments. What’s it mean

[pastel tartan]

How do we know what the environment looked like during the deenosaur times?

[little mauve]

Primary red beds come from sediment with iron oxide in its mineral structure

Usually implies a hot climate but they can be sandstone, siltstone, or shale so it doesn't necessarily mean dry

[heady thunder]

So theyre red for the same reason blood is red.

[little mauve]

So deserts, floodplain, tidal flats can all produce red beds in the right conditions with the right mineral content

[light osprey]

Ah ok, the one I was referring to was a siliciclastic bed

[little mauve]

Siliciclastic could be mudstone, sandstone, or conglomerate

[light osprey]

So not dry (?)

[sudden wind]

Potassium/argon dating. How it is done has already been explained so I won't need to.

[little mauve]

Do you know the specific sediment type? Mudstone or sandstone?

[astral kelp]

no dating!!

[light osprey]

No unfortunately

[woeful falcon]

that whole process, taking the element out of the equation, is called radiometric dating right?

[light osprey]

Ok no wait I did some more reading; it appears the primary sediments are sandstone, siltstone, and mudstone

[little mauve]

Okay that's what I figured, yeah there might be some semi-aridity but in general those are floodplain deposits

[light osprey]

Seems typical for Southern Asia at the time

Speaking of paleo-climate; do we have any Maastrichtian material which happened to fossilise in a rainforest?

[sudden wind]

When you want to date sediments, bones, fossils, rocks and other minerals, you gotta need to study isotopic couples. The most well known example is Carbon-14, an isotop from Carbon-12 (the atom in its most stable condition). Through time, your carbon atoms will see its population being depleted, this population will change into Carbon-14. Carbon has an half-life which is approximately 5 734 ± 40 years. That means that every 5 734 ± 40 years, half of the Carbon-12 quantity will become Carbon-14. The next 5 734 ± 40 years later, half of the first half will transform again and so on. We consider bones or fossils as closed systems, they do not exchange matter with their environment.

From there, you have a certain quantity of carbon-14 and carbon-12 in your bone or rock. The total quantity of those is equal to the original carbon-12 quantity when the animal died. From that, you can do some simple maths and estimate how long it has been since the animal died with both quantities.

[woeful falcon]

I didn't need the wikipedia article I just needed the term lol

[little mauve]

The red beds themselves may represent periodic aridity or a drying trend over time, as floodplain sediment ages and dries the oxidization can occur. Southern Asia then and now is dominated by the monsoon effect of the Pacific & Indian oceans. So extremely intense wet & dry season fluctuations potentially

[woeful falcon]

actually that message doesn't even sound like it was meant for me

[sudden wind]

I thought you were asking for an explanation about the process lololol
But yeah, it is radiometric dating.

[light osprey]

So these extreme arid climatic depictions seen in media are not a stretch when compared to the most extreme dry period that may have occurred?

[woeful falcon]

oh no lol just if it was called radiometric dating. I wasn't 100% sure but there was nothing else I could pull from my vague memory of high school science lol

[little mauve]

Here are some pics from Google comparing Monsoon climates during the wet and dry seasons. Quite a bit of difference that can definitely be intensified in times of extremes

[light osprey]

Oh those are some lovely comparisons I’ve been scouring the internet for something like this lol

So as I understand this drying of floodplains seems to be coinciding with the global climatic shift at the time? The Mesozoic gets colder and dryer so concurrently places like these get more extreme aridity to their environment.

[white matrix]

What’s iirc stand for?

[pastel tartan]

If I remember correctly

[white matrix]

Thank you

[little mauve]

No we're talking about normal regional shifts between wet and dry seasons year after year, with some years being extra dry (or wet) due to other factors. The climate warmed slowly throughout the Mesozoic

[light osprey]

I thought by the Maastrichtian there was rapid cooling?

[little mauve]

There was a little dip with respect to the trend but that trend wouldn't hit its peak until the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum

[light osprey]

I was under the impressionthe K-Pg extinction was the transitional event into the dramatic cooling

[little mauve]

No, happened a bit later in the middle Eocene. All that Maastrichtian & Paleocene volcanism had a big effect along with the higher sea levels

I'm mostly talking about very macro level climate trends, which at the scale of tens or hundreds of millions of years mostly have to do with the breakup of the supercontinent. There are many fluctuations, peaks and valleys, within that trend due to other factors (mostly CO2 levels in the atmosphere) because the climate system is incredibly complex. To your original point about Maastrichtian cooling having an effect on local environments, that's very likely the case, but how, where, when etc. are really hard things to pin down

[pastel tartan]

Nah k-pg is the astroid and the aftermath caused by it iirc

[light osprey]

You’re correct 🥳

[snow pivot]

Can we all take a moment to appreciate this chonky gal

[light osprey]

Hopefully this face musculature is a good rendition
Because it’s very cool and distinctive

[snow pivot]

Thats not even the best image of it
I cant take screenshots on console apple tv but the full body pic of majungasaurus is just
Precious

[sage cave]

Pnso sucho pfp w

[snow pivot]

I forget what the dino is in your pfp chonksaurus

[light osprey]

It’s the prehistoric planet Qianzhousaurus

[pastel tartan]

Was carnotaurus bigger than pycnonemosaurus

[woeful falcon]

nah. Pycno is the largest described abelisaurid

[light osprey]

From the material we have, it doesn’t seem to be close

[snow pivot]

I KNEW IT I FRICKING KNEW IT I COULDNT PINPOINT IT BUT I HAD A FEELING IT WAS QIANZHOUSAURUS

[light osprey]

Prehistoric Planet is at its best when it’s not about Tyrannosaurus lol

[woeful falcon]

kenyan giant description waiting room 🕐

[tranquil quartz]

I was just about to say that 💀

[compact leaf]

still waiting on the pile of undescribed brachiosaurids

[tulip dove]

👀

[light osprey]

Palaeontologists on their way to make the 1000th tyrannosaurus paper instead of describing and naming all this other material

[snow pivot]

Only reason i got a job was to watch prehistoric planet

[compact leaf]

there's a chinese one, one from the middle east, the archbishop, and at least two from europe

[tulip dove]

Nice

[snow pivot]

Why cant you

[light osprey]

He’s certainly neat isn’t he

[pastel tartan]

Paleontologists on their way to argue about spinosaurus

[deft sigil]

Please do not give out any personal information.

Also keep in mind the pinned guidlines in each channel before posting, as well as server rules.
This channel is for the discussion of past and present paleontological discoveries, scientific news, and depictions of prehistoric creatures in media in relation to paleontology.

[light osprey]

I found a Majungasaurus skull. How do we feel about it?

[tranquil quartz]

He has a lot of teeth

[pastel tartan]

He needs braces

[light osprey]

Here’s a 3D model to accentuate the girth of the skull

Although I can’t tell how accurate it is

[tranquil quartz]

💀, Chad Bary

[light osprey]

Okay I gave the model the once over seems to be right

[pastel tartan]

I really want to talk about this guy

Because hes so silly and i want to know more about him

I have zero idea what that means

[light osprey]

I think someone has a YouTube video on him

[pearl briar]

can i get the length?

[astral kelp]

9m

[white matrix]

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8dm1V4t/

[woeful falcon]

Its prehistoric planet stuff

Tho is there is a youtube video of that it would preferred.

[eager skiff]

Unreliable, dan made two versions and stated that the version2 which was 5.5 was probably more realistic

[snow pivot]

What other azhdarchids are there other than the 2 everyone knows

[tough parcel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azhdarchidae

[snow pivot]

Yknow like the 10+ foot tall onesa
Ik alanqa cant be one of those

[light osprey]

Read through the list you’ll find em

[snow pivot]

What if the best and coolest dinosaurs are in north korea

Thank you chad bary for giving me a very straightforward answer
Because god for bid i have to read on my own

ALANQA IS ONLY KNOWN FROM ITS BEAK?

Because they're either complete or they have 3 finger bones found of them

Jesus christ what on earth are you typing

Its been 5 minutes

More than half of those are disputed jesus christ

[light osprey]

Phosphatodraco and Arambourgiania are safe to stay

Tethydraco is definitely a Pteranodontid though.

No 😳

[snow pivot]

Earth needs a hero yknow

[light osprey]

Wikipedia lists the correct information on those genera I just checked.

[snow pivot]

Edit and remove everything about t rex even possibly being soley a scavenger

[light osprey]

In 2022 Tethydraco was reaffirmed as a Pteranodontian, and Phosphatodraco’s disposition was over its phylogenetic relationships iirc.

[stiff osprey]

that is correct

[compact leaf]

there's more than one species of quetzalcoatlus which is what you're seeing here and why it seems so small

[stiff osprey]

also true ^

[covert lintel]

i think thats the smaller species of quetz

[clever sable]

I think thats Q. lawsoni at the bottom

[light osprey]

Funny how they include a hypothetical skull for Hatzegopteryx, but not Arambourgiania

[pearl briar]

s c y t h e c l a w e d

[light osprey]

No fluff?

[pearl briar]

here's the fluff

[light osprey]

Not very fluffy smh. Makes sense though it’s a bigass animal

[scenic flame]

far far less

[viscid surge]

Not to be annoying but i think you’ll find its “far far fewer” since pterosaurs can be quantified?

[kind narwhal]

Who is the biggest bird? (Argentinosaurus is the largest non avian dinosaur.)

[light osprey]

Flight capable?

[kind narwhal]

No.

[light osprey]

Aepyornis I think

[kind narwhal]

No, the biggest non avian dinosaur is also a bird, but what classifies a bird again?

[snow pivot]

Bird

Feathers
Legs
Carnivorous or insectivorous
Can fly or ancestors could fly
Scaly feet

[light osprey]

Bird is the common name referring to animals in Avialae

So Aepyornis would be the largest “avian dinosaur” I guess. If you want one that can actually fly, nowadays Pelagornis is the biggest fella.

[kind narwhal]

Ah okay, so argentinosaurus is officially not the biggest bird.

[elfin pulsar]

Wait what aren’t there herbivorous birds?

[pearl briar]

wouldn't the flying one is argentavis???
las time i heard pelagornis took the wingspan (abt 6.5 meters, ~36 kg) but argentavis took the weight (abt 6 meters, ~70-80 kg)

[stray wren]

There are, idk what they're on about

[elfin pulsar]

Figured, thanks

[heady thunder]

Like, arent parrots herbivores?
Thats the easiest example.

[tranquil quartz]

No they are omnivorous, the only truly herbivorous bird is the Hoatzin of South America. Their diet consists of leaves,flowers,swamp roots,etc. Many birds eat seeds, however they also will eat insects, etc. Hoatzins will not.

[heady thunder]

Isnt there a threshhold tho? Like if over 60% of their diet is plant based theyre herbivores?

[wind urchin]

They're still considered Omnivorous if they have a significant meat % in their diet.

Basically if they eat nothing but plant matter (with some small portions of meat for certain nutrients) then it's an "herbivore"

If it's diet is almost all meat (with small amounts of plant matter, think dogs eating grass to help with digestive issues) then they are considered a "carnivore".

[heady thunder]

I think its not that black and white.
Like you have to have a 70% meat based died to be a hypercarnivore, for just a carnivore its less.
From what I have found, only 3% of animals are classified as omnivores.

And everywhere I look, parrots, finches, waterfowl are classified as herbivorous, even tho they dabble in some meat time to time.

[wind urchin]

Hypercarnivores are animals that eat exclusively meat, the only true hyper-carnivores live in the ocean, such as sharks or whales.

[heady thunder]

No? Hypercarnivore means your diet consists of over 70% meat.

[tranquil quartz]

Parrots and Waterfowl are still considered omnivores. Their diet consists of significant % of animal and plant matter. Even google will tell you this.

[heady thunder]

Ok, by who? Cos when I search it, every source says they are still classified as herbivores.

[tranquil quartz]

Even google will tell you this, which is quite a surprise from google. Literally search up something like ‘are parrots herbivores’

[heady thunder]

Heres Google.

[tranquil quartz]

My response I could get a better source if you’d like.

[somber knoll]

Might this be a case of what's popularly thought of (parrots being herbivores) vs what's scientifically correct?

Kinda like tomatoes being considered vegetables by most, when they're fruits.

[heady thunder]

Huh, neat. Tho there still are herbivorous parrots it seems.

[wind urchin]

I just looked and there were only like 2 maybe 3 places on the front page that said parrots are herbivorus.

However there is more than one species of parrot and not all of them have the same diet.

Macaws probably are more insectivorus than parakeets.

[tranquil quartz]

The only true herbivorous bird is like I said the Hoatzin, they will not eat animal matter at all. They exclusively stick to plant matter.

[heady thunder]

Yeah, but you can still eat some animal matter and be called a herbivore.
Like even cows will eat small animals from time to time, they arent herbivores then?

[tranquil quartz]

Yeah but that doesn’t make a significant % of their diet. Their diet will usually consist of around something like 95% plant matter, 5% animal. So they are still herbivorous

[heady thunder]

Ok, but wheres the source for that? Cos like hypercarnivore is over 70%, whats an herbivore diet at?

[tranquil quartz]

It’s probably around the same, if not higher. Most herbivores spend multiple hours a day just eating.

[exotic quest]

they mostly do that for nutrient deficiency, some cases it's not caused by that but most it is

[heady thunder]

Yeah, but I coulndt find anything on it showing exactly the figures, while for carnivores its like 60% iirc for just carnivore and over 70% for hypercarnivore.

@exotic quest That still means they need meat or stuff thats not plant based, which impacts their diet.
I just wanted to know how much can an animal not eat plant matter and still be considered herbivorous.

[tranquil quartz]

Well the reason things are classified as herbivore, omnivore,carnivore are because they regularly eat meat,plant, or a variety of both for omni. A deer isn’t consuming small birds every day, so they aren’t considered omnivorous . They do however regularly consume plant matter, thus they are herbivores.

[heady thunder]

Well the diet percentage decides that really, or maybe theres like another biological reason like how their digestion system is structured.
Sadly I couldnt find anything on herbivory either then, animal eat plant hmm tasty.
Tho I did find out that most species are carnivores, around 1/3 are herbivores and only a small number like 3% are actually considered omnivores.

Which is interesting, I expected the herbivore and carnivore numbers to be switched, tho I guess digesting your neighbor is easier then digesting leaves.

[tranquil quartz]

I mean thats still a ton of herbivores, and they each have their own population. If everything was a herbivore the world would be overrun.

[heady thunder]

I think herbivores still make up most of the biomass but are less diverse, but Id have to resarch that before saying.

[tranquil quartz]

I mean herbivores are some of the larger animals in their environments, elephants, bison, etc. So they probably do make up a lot of the biomass

[heady thunder]

I think its less of elephants and more of like, the giant mass of stuff like phytoplankton and stuff

[exotic quest]

look at the UK for a very small example of what the world would be like if the animal population was predominantly herbivores

[tranquil quartz]

Yeah the deer have gone mental in that country, they have no natural predators there so they just eat and eat away at the environment.

[heady thunder]

Dont they want to drop bison there too?
Id think they need wolves first.
Or cave lions whoever drops first lol

[tranquil quartz]

They have implemented bison in a tiny population already. But there is plans to reintroduce wolves and lynx.

[heady thunder]

Im just waiting for the mammoth pack to come back.

[tranquil quartz]

Thylacine dlc when?

[exotic quest]

wolves are a big if. there's a lot of dispute over whether wolves should be reintroduced or not

[heady thunder]

Wolves should be high on the priority list tho.

[exotic quest]

tell that to the government

[heady thunder]

Some sheep will be lost.
Buy guard dogs I guess.

[tranquil quartz]

I mean there is also the case of where the wolves would live. A lot of the UK consists of farmland. So farmers will not want to have wolves near them.

[cloud dagger]

Paleo chat moment

[heady thunder]

We learn from the past and deal with the future lol

[tranquil quartz]

Very very paleontological talk rn.

[tiny holly]

Hoatzins are absolutely not the only herbivorous bird?? There is a huge swathe of birds that subsist nearly entirely on nuts, seeds, fruit and grain. animal-based protein makes up a similar small percentage of their diet as in ungulates. Finches, parrots, songbirds, a lot of waterfowl, sparrows etc

[tranquil quartz]

I thought they also had a significant percentage of animal matter in their diet though. Iirc Hoatzins don’t.

[heady thunder]

I dont think finches and waterfowl eat like 50% meat.

[tiny holly]

No. In basically all the birds i mentioned its incidental and not necessary for their diet at all. You don't see people giving their pet parrots any meat because they don't need it and its very easy to overdo it. They eat meat just as much as something like a deer does

[heady thunder]

Do you by any chance have any idea of how much an animals diet should consist of plant based matter to count as a herbie?

[fickle sparrow]

there's specific percentages but I can't remember off the top of my head

[heady thunder]

Yeah I couldnt find them sadly.

[tiny holly]

I think it's very subjective and depends on who you ask. Personally I'd define it as what is actually necessary for their diet to achieve peak health and nutritional balance. If an animal mainly eats plants but does actually require a small amount of animal protein for peak health, i would call that an omnivore. If they can benefit from meat but it isnt something they need to seek out and can live their whole life touching 0 meat, I'd call that a herbivore

[tranquil quartz]

Won’t something like a parrot eat animal matter if it’s available though. Hoatzins won’t. Iirc a study was done and the Hoatzins diet made up something like 82% leaves,10% flowers and 8% fruit. I think Parrots will eat insects if they can.

[tiny holly]

Frankly I think if you offered a hoatzin a bug they'd take it to be fair. Basically every animal ever will eat bugs sometimes. That doesn't mean they care to seek it out.

[heady thunder]

Hmm, so then by this definition, most parrots are herbies cos they can go without meat pretty easily.
But I guess there are maybe some proper definitions for it, like for hypercarnivore you have to have an over 70% meat based diet.

[tiny holly]

Yes, parrots are absolutely herbivores. So are a lot of other birds. They may not be 100% strict but very few herbivores on earth are anyway. Nature does not fit nice and snugly into the categories we try putting it into

[heady thunder]

Now this makes me think, are there any species of carni parrots?

[tiny holly]

So not parrots afaik, they're all largely herbivorous although i recall there being some that might take meat more frequently. However if you want an oddball, finches are usually all pretty herbivorous... aside from the vampire finch. While they usually eat seeds, when food is scarce they'll seek out the blood of seabirds by pecking above their tails and drinking the blood :3

usually during hard times most finches just... deal with it. Many even migrate accordingly. But because they're found on the galapagos islands they can't really migrate, so they have to find alternative ways to survive. iirc they'll also take eggs sometimes, but the blood drinking is what they're known for

I think the Kea is the most omnivorous of all the parrots, but they don't even begin to get close to carnivory. They will eat carrion or even small birds, but still largely subsist on plant matter

[unborn bane]

Please keep discussions here on topic. This channel is for the discussion of past and present paleontological discoveries, scientific news, and depictions of prehistoric creatures in media in relation to palaeontology.

[pearl briar]

what is edmonto regalis & annectens most up-to-date length & weight?

[astral kelp]

Depends on the specimen, you want the average, the biggest or the smallest of both?

[pearl briar]

average to biggest

[pearl briar]

fluff version made by sm friend of mine

[eager skiff]

Annectens can get to 15.3t (largest i think)

[pearl briar]

great, i'll take that thx

[eager skiff]

Np, and shant is 16.2t+ if u need

[pearl briar]

thx again 😂

[eager skiff]

No problemo

[charred gulch]

https://scitechdaily.com/twice-the-size-of-a-killer-whale-new-evidence-suggests-giant-pliosaurs-swam-in-late-jurassic-seas/

[exotic quest]

damn thats from the university i plan on going to

[heady thunder]

HES BACK (in spirit)!

[viscid surge]

In another reality WWD had a dwarf liopleurodon and the real one was the size of a blue whale

[tough parcel]

This was downsized to...10-11m iirc?

Still gigantic but certainly not 14m

[viscid surge]

Could an 11 metre liopleurodon still pull off the iconic intro shot in some way or another? or would it be too small

[tough parcel]

Not really? Tho theropods are fairly lightweight comparatively, so maybe it could

[woeful falcon]

That's an 11 meter one?

[viscid surge]

Ehh i suppose at a stretch it could stick its head out and pull the little fella in, since it only seems to be around 5-6m long?

[tough parcel]

Narp, it's Liopleurodon holotype...iirc? So not 11m, idk about scaling it to 11m

[viscid surge]

Ill scale it in procreate real quick

[stiff osprey]

I think a 11 m pliosaur would make a lot more sense in that scene than a 25 m one

We see later that the 25 m Liopleurodon gets beached and dies horribly, but at the start of the episode it beaches itself intentionally to grab Eustrepto? Tf

[tough parcel]

No, it snatches it from the side, doesn't beach itself

[stiff osprey]

But how is that water deep enough for it to submerge 3 feet away from land

[viscid surge]

At the start of the episode its on a rock face, we can imagine that under the water it drops quite sharply so is not totally implausible i suppose

[tough parcel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/512497290829758467/871558793455104000/image0.gif

(I know it's a meme, but I don't have any other gif)

[stiff osprey]

Aqautic

hm, the Eustrepto is also quite a bit bigger than the real one in this shot, so you could probably recreate it with a much smaller Lio

[viscid surge]

I feel like you could still recreate the scene, just that the eustrepto would probably be pulled straight in, instead of being lifted in the air.

[heady thunder]

You could easily recreate it with a 11m one, the head of that thing would probable the size of the eustrepo

[light osprey]

Minor error let’s pretend it says Argentavis 😳

[keen forum]

dan got pretty close to 12m yeah

[keen forum]

also isn't there a big 9m lio now? https://twitter.com/DanPalaeon1/status/1612506636136091648

Dan Folkes (@DanPalaeon1)

Liopleurodon ferox's holotype is not very large... however, isolated specimens detail that this pliosaurid may well have been one of the largest predators to patrol earth's oceans. Here's two isolated teeth compared to Pliosaurus kevani, an enormous pliosaur in its own right.

Likes

164

Twitter · Jan 9, 2023, 5:48 PM

[light osprey]

So Liopleurodon is what size?

[plain lava]

I’ve been staring at pics of Spino’s holotype and neotype like a rabid animal and like how do people who make skeletals or other reconstructions go about scaling them together to make a full animal? I’ve heard it get thrown around that the neotype could be a smaller or younger individual (though i think that might’ve been someone’s theory) due to the awkward proportions of the legs.

[stiff osprey]

They overlap in the hips and a single caudal vertebra, which is enough to tell us that they are, if not identical, at least close in size

The neotype is a young individual, but one around the same size as the holotype; and dinosaurs tend to have proportionally shorter legs when they're older, not the other way around

[plain lava]

@stiff osprey Oh wow thank you so much, that’s been on my mind for a longgg time. Does that mean the holotype could be a young individual too?

[stiff osprey]

It's possible? The spines are almost all disconnected from the centra of the vertebrae, which could mean it's not done growing. But it's not a reliable character for telling age in dinosaurs, you would need to look at the inside of the bones (which are now exploded. rip)

[plain lava]

ripppp. brb lemme go back in time and rescue the holotype from WWII

[snow pivot]

How far away do 2 animals need to be apart in time to be considered a different species?
iirc a good example would be allosaurus fragilis and allosaurus maximus
Aka Saurophaganax

[heady thunder]

Did they decide what saurophaganax is? I swear they change their minds once every month

[tough parcel]

Time is a horrid split for species, never use it

[light osprey]

Allosaurid?

[heady thunder]

Did they decide if sauro is sauro or just big allo is what I meant, everyone knows its an allosauroid thats not really debatable

[snow pivot]

Than what distinguishs daspletosaurus from t rex then

[tough parcel]

…A lot more than time? Such as bone characteristics?

[light osprey]

I think it’s been a stable genus for a hot minute

[snow pivot]

Im gonna assume you to be correct because i dont know much of a lot

[nocturne cairn]

several differences in the skeleton, they look similar bc they're related but there's enough material to tell that they're different genera

they're not split into genera by time, there's just plenty of differences between them. rex isn't a scaled up das and vice versa

[tranquil quartz]

Its most likely its own thing. Sauro shows up after Allo and Torvo go.

[safe forum]

Can someone give me reliable size estimates of T. rex?

[chilly knot]

~7-11t depending on specimen

[clever sable]

Big

[chilly knot]

real

[safe forum]

Ty, do you know a reliable height and length as well pls?

[light osprey]

Hip or neck height?

[safe forum]

Hip

[chilly knot]

hip height ~3.5-4m, length ~11-12.6m

[safe forum]

Thank you

[clever sable]

8 tons on average I believe

[astral kelp]

Average is 6-7 iirc

[clever sable]

The smallest rex we have is 6 tons

[astral kelp]

Oh

[heady thunder]

If the smallest is 6 tons and the biggest is, 11-12?, would the average be like, 8.8 smth

[clever sable]

Something like that

[pastel tartan]

That would make the average 9 tons if you round it

[compact leaf]

any decent dacentrurus skeletals recently?

[pastel tartan]

Is that the stegosaurid

[compact leaf]

yes, I have skeletals for it but I'm just not sure if there's a more recent one available

[light osprey]

A mathematical average maybe

[ancient crystal]

Isn't that how averages are found?

[light osprey]

Most representative Tyrannosaurs taxa werent 9 tonnes to my knowledge

So a proper mathematical average using all the representative specimens would result in a lower number. Instead of a single specimen representing each ballpark weight estimate

[compact leaf]

a mathematical average isn’t necessarily the size most of the species will be, a really big or small individual can skew it especially when you have a limited sample size

[tiny holly]

Medians are often a far better representation of the "middle" average size, in particular with a small sample size

[light osprey]

The typical way in which I’m assuming the lot of ya calculate your average is using the assumption there is an equal representation of animals at each size range. Which is wrong 😐

[woeful falcon]

Who's calculating an average with anything other than the the sum of weights divided by the sample size

[light osprey]

If you only have one of each value you get an inflated result

[woeful falcon]

I don't follow. Give example so my pea brain can process what you're saying

[light osprey]

I think I’ve got piss-poor wording as well; here’s the example hypothetical/wrong way to write it; (6+7+8+9+10)/5

[woeful falcon]

What's wrong with it

That's how you calculate average

[light osprey]

It’s using the premise that each weight has an equal representation among all the representative specimens

Like there are as many 10 tonne tyrannosaurus as there are 7 tonne ones.

[woeful falcon]

As opposed to say 6+7+7+7+8+9+9+10?

[compact leaf]

basically what we mean is that the mathematical average isn’t really the best way to look at the size of most individuals of a species, a really big animal that doesn’t represent the species well as a whole can skew the result and give a misleading average for the species

[woeful falcon]

But that's how average works

What other kind of average is there

[light osprey]

Yes that model right there results in a lower number

[compact leaf]

that’s how the average works yes what we’re saying is that it’s a bad way of looking at what’s typical for a species

[woeful falcon]

There is no need for a model

Just use actual specimens

[light osprey]

Damn

[astral kelp]

no offence to blub, but damn

[stiff osprey]

the people hated blub because he spoke the truth

[woeful falcon]

The only thing that makes 6+7+7+7+8+9+9+10
Different from
6+7+8+9+10
Is the sample.

No one is more right than the other if those are the numbers you have to work with. Giga's average is 9.6t. Is that an accurate representation of the animal's average on a population level? Probably not, it's a sample size of two vs how ever many rex has. But that is the average

[light osprey]

Yes that’s what I mean use an accurate sample size

[astral kelp]

Tri just came in unexpectedly to diss blub sadly

[compact leaf]

really came in dissed and dipped, how is it the mods don’t see that but the instant it moves to modern animals they’re here

[astral kelp]

Fr

[sacred girder]

@fervent herald A reminder to please remain polite and respectful of other members while in conversation. Refer to our #rules

[compact leaf]

there we go

[light osprey]

Idk how the Admins take this disses from us honestly

[woeful falcon]

Ye. The definition of average never changes, reliability rests on the sample and sample size. So like in the case of giga it looks like it is heavier on average than rex, which by all technicalities and current knowledge is true. But that's why you gotta look at the factors that resulted in that average comparatively and judge it from that pov.

[compact leaf]

right that’s what I’m saying, the average is the same but it’s not always a great way to see what’s ‘normal’ for a given species

[astral kelp]

Blud also spam pinged a mod server btw.

And is messaging me the n word

[woeful falcon]

Myself, I think Gigas were very similarly sized to rexes, maybe even identical, but with its sample size I can't say is reflective in any way of a population. Because its two specimens lol

[light osprey]

I mean in extinct fellas there’s definitely a higher chance of getting the average sized fella, so maybe G. Carolinii is on average larger 🤷

[sacred girder]

If you have encountered a user or more, breaking our Terms of Service please report them by creating a Support Ticket via https://alderon.games/support. This will allow us to provide support and assist with the situation as reports to our Team will always be seen and investigated.

[woeful falcon]

Oh def. That's a factor to consider

[compact leaf]

that’s an issue we see a lot with sauropods because usually the sample size is only a few individuals if we even have more than one

[woeful falcon]

Even so, the sample size is so small that I can't begin to call it reliable as a reflection of the animal as a whole

[clever sable]

Yeah, I kinda doubt average giga is 9.6 tons, probably around 8-9 but we can't just say that 8-9 is the average because we have no evidence that 8-9 is the average so for now 9.6 is the average even if that's not the real average. I hope what I said made sense

[light osprey]

The 90 tonne Patagotitan that never got fossilised. Oh the possibilities 😈

[woeful falcon]

Course, the sample some dinosaurs have to run with is just 1 lol.

It gets tricky speaking in hypotheticals. And for all we know the "true average" of gigas might have been larger than rex. Larger on average as they tackled larger prey or something

[compact leaf]

titanosaurs as a whole need a re-evaluation desperately but that would be an insane undertaking, the entire group is a disaster

[light osprey]

Cladistically?

[compact leaf]

oh yeah big time, the more basal you get the worse it gets

[light osprey]

This is why Maastrichtian continues to be the goated period I guess

[woeful falcon]

Man

I want giga to have the same level of appreciation as rex has in some circles where its not just a spam fest about being the largest but appreciation for the animal itself and its characteristics

[compact leaf]

somphospondylidae is particularly bad because it's a good old fashioned wastebasket, I'd bet half of the stuff in there doesn't belong but it had one character similar and got thrown in there

[light osprey]

Are you suggesting that paleo discussions be anything other than how heavy an animal is? Oh the heresy 😳

[compact leaf]

it really doesn't help that any sort of late cretaceous fragmentary sauropod immediately gets thrown in with the titanosaurs on principle, if we did a comprehensive analysis then a lot of things would probably get moved to other families (especially on the basal end of things) and I guarantee that some size estimates would change as the tribes and clades get shifted around

[woeful falcon]

This will be my first and only message acknowledging that tri guy, that was amusing lol.

Yes chonk, it must be said

[light osprey]

I think I try my hardest to engage in topics that aren’t just mass estimates

[woeful falcon]

I dislike them. Though I welcome them over the vs battles of old

[light osprey]

Paleoeocology is the goat of all discussions 😎

[woeful falcon]

Who would win irl, megalania vs gigantosaurus??

[astral kelp]

Chonksaurus

[light osprey]

Well we must first list their stats

[tiny holly]

bear vs rex part 2

[astral kelp]

Chonksaurus solos

[tiny holly]

Never forget that when the bear vs rex conversation was recently reignited on twitter a bit ago people were genuinely defending 'bear wins' takes

[astral kelp]

I still think chonksaurus solos

[elfin pulsar]

That’s not true lol

Oh nvm I just saw the rest of the convo, see somebody already helped

[light osprey]

I’m sure 90% of the people involved in that discussion were incoherent

[woeful falcon]

Bears are alive

Rex is not

Checkmate, rex

[elfin pulsar]

How do you fight a ghost tho, bears are in a pickle now

[astral kelp]

You’re missing the point, chonksaurus solos

[light osprey]

I think you’re on to something

[pearl briar]

what is allo jimmadseni & allo europaeus most up-to-date length & weight???

[chilly knot]

8m

[pearl briar]

nvm lol

[plain lava]

the what

[tiny holly]

a conversation that pops up now and then anytime this old image does the rounds

[light osprey]

The three metre tall bear is truly something to behold

[lavish frigate]

Gimme an adolescent Rex and up and I give you a dead grizzly

Well maybe late adolescent…. Fresh adol probably loses

[modest meteor]

Love that skin

[white matrix]

My honest reaction:

[eager skiff]

Polar bear is actually huge if thats accurate gawd damn

[zinc spindle]

Sue my beloved

[astral kelp]

Put Palaeoloxodon there 😏

[tough parcel]

Eh, overhyped

[heady thunder]

This looks to be easier then a trike for rex tbh.

[light osprey]

She pretty ain’t she

[heady thunder]

This Scotty or Sue?

[tranquil quartz]

I sometimes forgot how big ancient mammals were, jeez

[eager skiff]

Depends if its based on the lost femur

[light osprey]

Scotty has the weird maxilla

[heady thunder]

Yeah and bigger horns it seems.

[astral kelp]

Actually lacrimals are the correct term 🤓 👆

[heady thunder]

Im talking about the graph, idk about the femur thingy.

[light osprey]

Aren’t the T rex horns on the frontal?

[pearl briar]

no i would still call it "Horn"

[woeful falcon]

Lacrimal and postorbital.

[tough parcel]

Lacrimal to post-orbitals contain the bosses, horns don’t exist on rex

[light osprey]

Yes yes. The post-orbitals I checked the skull 😭

[heady thunder]

The horn stuff in the end.

[eager skiff]

The lost femur makes it 25 tons lmao

[heady thunder]

So its like the bracho titan sauropod thingy

[pearl briar]

who's gonna stop me from callin it "Horn" 😈

[tough parcel]

Me because they're bosses, not horns

[heady thunder]

Pointy thing growing from skull.

[woeful falcon]

What is a boss if not a round, not-hornlike horn

[eager skiff]

Erm... kinda

[pearl briar]

wait bosses???
wait why am i suddenly hears boss music

[light osprey]

Maybe it was round 🤷

[tiny holly]

i mean tbf 'boss' is what we basically call any not-pointy keratinous horn-sized growth. i feel like the only distinction is that horn is pointy-ish, boss is not

[tranquil quartz]

So like the growth on the head of a pachyrhinosaurus?

[stiff osprey]

Yes

[tranquil quartz]

👍

[snow python]

Is Mapu's 8,5-9 tons weight estimate still up to date?

[light osprey]

I think so

[astral kelp]

yup

[heady thunder]

Mapu cool af

[light osprey]

I bet he got big like Giganotosaurus 😎

[heady thunder]

Giganto the jaw specimen.

[snow python]

What about lenght? 12,5-12,7m ?

[light osprey]

MCF-PVPH-108 seems to be 12.3 metres now actually. Unless that skeletal is bollocks

[snow python]

Same about carch and tyrannotitan? 12-12,3?

[light osprey]

11-12.3

So maybe not as heavy? Unless Giganotosaurini are just heavy for their length compared to other Carcharodontosaurids?

[heady thunder]

Do we even have enough specimens to even make that assumption for them?

[snow python]

Heared carch is 12,3-12,5m and 7,5-8,2t and tyrannotitan 12m and 7,5t

[light osprey]

We have a bone bed. Varied growth stages

[heady thunder]

For mapu right?

[snow python]

Isn't this one the most up to date?

[tough parcel]

No, Chonk's is the best

[astral kelp]

falcon, you got alpha8's mapusaurus skeletal on you by chance 🥺

[heady thunder]

They both are like, basically identical minus the spines on the hip.

[white matrix]

That's the 2nd version, the one above is the 3rd

[astral kelp]

thanks I wonder, been hearing which is more accruate Lamborlobators and Beagliam, or alphas?

[light osprey]

Yes that’s a major difference I think

[tough parcel]

Dunno actually, Alpha's is just slightly edited Tyrannotitan, but Beag + Lambor is from scratch? But I've heard praises for both so

[light osprey]

I think Lambor’s is more accurate

There was a reanalysis on what the shape of the sacral vertebrae would be

[chilly knot]

i wrote "Argentina" wrong tho

[light osprey]

Nvmd it’s a sh*t skeletal

[chilly knot]

real and true

[pastel tartan]

How much did S. Aegypticus weigh

[chilly knot]

~4t

[rocky cypress]

@light osprey A reminder to please remain polite and respectful of other members while in conversation.

[light osprey]

If I left a /j would it be fine smh

[pastel tartan]

It’s just a prank bro

[green helm]

is deinosuchus 5 tons?

[ancient crystal]

More than that

[green helm]

so like 13.6 tons?

[ancient crystal]

Thats a lot better, iirc the max is like 15 tons but I don't know the average

[green helm]

is that from the newest weight of deinosuchus hatcheri?

[eager skiff]

Most popular

[ancient crystal]

Its from this I believe

[green helm]

dinopedia?

[eager skiff]

Yes

[green helm]

is the information not from dinopedia if not then i wanna know the name of the website

[vocal breach]

Utah vs Kelenken who win

[stiff osprey]

Utah, it's larger and has teeth

[vocal breach]

How big was Kelenken?

[vocal breach]

K

[stray wren]

Utah also weighs a heck of a lot more than Kelenken

[tranquil quartz]

Largest estimates place it at 15 tons iirc

[vocal breach]

How about achillo or austro vs it

[tranquil quartz]

But BEAK

[bronze storm]

What would keleken bite force be compared to a human

[stray wren]

Utah weighs as much as a polar bear, Kelenken isn't getting a chance to bite it before it's crushed. Austro is a maybe, but Achillo would be much the same

[vocal breach]

How much does austro weigh again?

[tranquil quartz]

but ma bird

[stray wren]

Austro weighs like... 227kg, comparable to a lion

[vocal breach]

This skeletal says that Kelenken was heavier than Austro then

[stiff osprey]

Austro's not a big game hunter either, while Kelenken is. I think Kel's got it

[vocal breach]

Austro is about the limit for Kel tho, right?

[stray wren]

Probably. Definitely not taking a Utahraptor, Utah is built like a brick

[vocal breach]

Isn’t achillo like 250 kilos or smth

[tranquil quartz]

Also have to remember Kelenken is a bird, Utah isn’t. Theres a clear advantage to the Utah.

[stiff osprey]

Bro is speciesist against birds 😔

[vocal breach]

Utah eats Kel for lunch

[tranquil quartz]

More of the fact this would make Kelenken have hollow air filled bones iirc.

[compact leaf]

hollow bones can still be pretty strong but utah is built like a brick anyway so it probably has it

[tranquil quartz]

Really, thought bird bones were quite brittle?

[stray wren]

Nah, hollow ≠ brittle, bird bones can be quite strong. Just depends on the forces applied. Like human femurs for example are really good with compressive forces but shear forces snap em like twigs

[stiff osprey]

aye, they are weaker compared to mammal bones, but by a small margin

you probably wouldn't be able to snap a human-sized bird's bones bare handed

[stray wren]

Mhm

[heady thunder]

Average is like 8.

[green helm]

and the highest is 15 tons?

[heady thunder]

12-15, idk if the 15 tons are extremely agreed upon but they exist

[green helm]

alr

[light osprey]

I think 15 tonnes was Fadeno’s original estimate. IIRC he’s adjusted to 13 now

[green helm]

who is IIRC

[vocal breach]

If I remember correctly

[green helm]

is IIRC a paleontogly?

[light osprey]

No 😭 it stands for “if I remember correctly”

[heady thunder]

Its an abbreviation, like idk.

[green helm]

oh

[green helm]

mind blow

[somber tartan]

I recently visited my grandfather yesterday since I finished college and decided to show him prehistoric planet, since he was the one who got me into dinosaurs when I was younger, the amount of questions and curiosity and wonder he showed really made me feel something, like he showed me what dinosaurs used to be, and 20 years later I got to show him what dinosaurs are now

[heady thunder]

https://tenor.com/view/wholesome-petting-dog-puppy-golden-retriever-so-wholesome-gif-25203251

[somber tartan]

Thoughts on this?

https://twitter.com/sirblameson/status/1674144409947086852?s=46

Blame (@SirBlameson)

Dinosaur fights, we love 'em and hate 'em.

Here's mine.

A thread of how depicted it 🧵(1/9)

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▶ Play video

Twitter · Jun 28, 2023, 7:55 PM

[stiff osprey]

Excellent. Could do with some facebiting though

[woeful falcon]

that tail at the end was downright disrespect

[somber tartan]

Reminds me of that one Komodo dragon fight

[stiff osprey]

that komodo was so funny
Bro was flabbergasted

[somber tartan]

Bro lost a few chromosomes after that slap

[astral kelp]

that last slap was personal

[tame linden]

Please tell me where I can find that video

[somber tartan]

Uhhhhhhhh lemme look for it

Can’t find it

[tranquil quartz]

Fr, bro is a sore loser ( well now that im looking at it neither of them won)

[tame linden]

I think I found it

[somber tartan]

👍🏽

[pearl briar]

what is the more accurate gigantoraptor + human size comparison?

[cold cedar]

Can we dump paleo knowledge here?

[pastel tartan]

Yes I believe

[light osprey]

A little over 3 metres tall I think. Visually Gabriel’s should be the best

[wide glen]

yall just aint gonna talk about how alamosaurus subfamily is opisthocoelicaudiinae

[steady rock]

funfact, theres a therapod that filled the niche of a polluniating insect

[sudden wind]

T.rex does not have horns though, it is the postorbital which is shaped like an orb. People oversize it a lot and give it a pointy shape when it is rounded and a lot of time quite flat.

[sudden wind]

You mean a bird or a non avian dinosaur ?

[eager skiff]

[heady thunder]

Eh, it could have also ended up in a more pointy end keratin cover considered, we dont know.
But yes rex was usually smooth, or at least smoother then an albertasaurine

[pearl briar]

thx for the recomendation, got any idea of what is gigantoraptor most up-to-date length & weight?

[sudden wind]

How? The bone shape does not suggest any sort of pointy end. Keratin sheath follow the bone shape so we can assume it wasn't pointy as a lot represent it to be, such as Max bellomio's model (except if based on Tuft's love which seem to be sort of pointier than in any specimen)

Witton commented on it : https://twitter.com/MarkWitton/status/1479144941704130568?t=e7S6pLmZxthfRX41UOPcGg&s=19

Mark Witton (@MarkWitton)

@YutyrannusM @EDGEinthewild I don't think Tyrannosaurus had horns around its eyes, no. The swollen dorsal lacrimal bones do not have cornified tissue, but evidence of a sheet of dermal armour. The postorbital bosses look like they were cornified, but they're rounded, not pointed.

Twitter · Jan 6, 2022, 5:36 PM

Tuft's love maybe is the only specimen which you can give a pointier boss, but it still wouldn't be very big. The keratin extention wouldn't go very far based on osteological studies about keratin sheath. Most other Tyrannosaurus have their postorbital covered by an osteoderm and those are quite rounded.

2 first pics are Tuft. The others are Sue, Stan and Trix.

Also when it comes to skull rugosities, Albertosaurinaes are even smoother than Tyrannosaurinaes, but their lacrimal is pointier. However, it is highly pneumatized and so likely wasn't covered much by dense hard tissues such as keratin.

[tiny holly]

tbf keratin growths dont always necessarily follow the bone core, at least not in a predictable manner. You might not assume that the helmeted guineafowl's casque curls back the way it does considering how overall straight the bone core is. And stuff like rhinos have huge horns despite lacking any bone core whatsoever. Although this is just to counter horns following the shape of the bone, its still important to consider what the actual texture of the bone tells us about the presence of keratin/how it grew, because that does indicate a lot

It's unfortuante that we don't really have many animals today that grow big, rounded keratinous bosses the way so many dinosaurs did, because that would make it a lot easier to understand and visualise

[tranquil quartz]

I remember Gigantoraptor being about 1.4 tons iirc.

[eager skiff]

Does anyone here have a barsboldia skeletal?

[sudden wind]

At least the guineafowl has an extensive bone core. For rhinoceros I don't know how in particular it works, those are very particular. Guess the texture has more importance for the mammal.

[fallow quiver]

I forgot the name of the bird but it’s a bird species that’s still living and has claws, with fingers(from the rainforest)

[midnight harbor]

Sooo i bought pnso eurhinosaurus
One of the upcoming animals in pot

[fallow quiver]

hoatzin is probably the oldest living relative of dinosaurs, cuz it still has claws on its wings with fingers, they are most visible when their chicks.

Probably the only avian-dinosaur with fingers and claws on its wings

[tough parcel]

Narp, several ratites have clawed fingers

[fallow quiver]

Oh cool

[frail robin]

I learned that Ostriches have one small claw on their wing by watching Ben from the Urban Rescue Ranch lift one's wing up

[fallow quiver]

Most birds just have a small finger and the rest of the wing

The Hoatzin is my favourite bird cuz it’s claws are probably the most noticeable out of other birds

[ancient crystal]

Don't cassowaries have pretty noticable claws as well?

[small geyser]

Iirc rheas are the only ratites that don’t have wing claws.

Anyways, before the mods yell at us… paleontology.

[tranquil quartz]

Hoatzin? Wait nvm you already said.

[steady rock]

a bird ( humming bird )

[clever sable]

Hummingbirds are the smallest dinosaurs

[lavish frigate]

Aye good ol uncle Ben from da urban rescue ranch 👍

[bronze leaf]

What about that one clean bird in Africa

The secretary bird

[frail robin]

Manhandling an aggressive Rhea like it's nothing

Glad to see that he got his wildlife rehabilitation permit

[lavish frigate]

Oh yeah I’m glad he finally got it

[ancient crystal]

I wonder if anyone here has any insights on kevin's never ending rage

[candid ledge]

Please keep all discussions in here on the topic of the #paleontology, we recommend all off-topic conversations be directed to DM's or another server entirely. Refer to our ⁠#rules

[light osprey]

7.5 metres long. Anywhere from 1.4-2 tonnes I’d reckon

[covert lintel]

no. it is equally as evolved as all other birds, it is equally as old, it is equally as close to non-avian dinosaurs. it just has more pronounced claws. many other birds have claws, they're just smaller and harder to see.
the presence of primitive traits in a modern animal doesn't actually make that animal primitive, it's still a modern animal.

[bronze leaf]

I think by “oldest” he means closest to

[white matrix]

Mozartean's point still stands

[covert lintel]

again, though, all birds are equally close to non-avian dinosaurs. all modern birds share a common ancestor, and that ancestor came well after bird-y dinosaurs (like avialans) split off from the less bird-y ones (like everything that's not an avialan).

[fallow quiver]

Ok

[fallow quiver]

Ty for correcting me, I don’t have a good sense of grammar

[astral kelp]

chonksaurus solos

[fallow quiver]

I said “probably” so I didn’t knew it as a fact, I just make hypophysis cuz I like doing that, but still I can’t stop you from correcting me anyway

[astral kelp]

tbf they alone do not make it the definitive oldest living relative of dinosaurs. Evolutionary relationships are complex and require careful analysis of multiple factors to draw accurate conclusions

[bitter oasis]

@fallow quiver Please be polite and respectful towards other members, refer to our #rules .

[fallow quiver]

[frail robin]

Would birds have any reason to evolve more pronounced claws and maybe revert back some of their older features? (Like tails, mouths with teeth etch.)

[light osprey]

When the niche opens itself I guess

[frail robin]

Yes, baby Hoatzins use their claws to climb up to the nest if they fall (which is their defense mechanism if a predator discovers the nest)

[fallow quiver]

Sounds very prehistoric for a bird with claws to do that

[astral kelp]

for these phenomena to unfold, specific environmental conditions would need to align, providing clear advantages that drive the development and perpetuation of these traits

[frail robin]

Excuse me?? How does that sound "prehistoric"???????????????????????????????????????????

[frail robin]

Yes, then again, while Roadruners and Secretary Birds would be better off with tails and teeth, they haven't evolved any

[astral kelp]

Fair, but the fact that Roadrunners and Secretary Birds haven't evolved tails and teeth despite the potential advantages indicates that they have found successful adaptations in their own unique ways

[frail robin]

Mhm. I wonder if Jack Horner goes through with the Chickensaurus project if we'll see Secretaries with tails and claws

[sterile trail]

Wrong one buddy

[fallow quiver]

U sure?

[sterile trail]

This dude

[jagged trellis]

one is a concerning person with a noticeable stand in pop culture and the other is a concerning person with a noticeable stand in pop culture

yeah its clicking in my brain, heya, anyways someone mentioned gigantoraptor so more of that

[frail robin]

Good

[covert lintel]

re: claws, yeah, pretty plausible. some birds already use 'em for climbing and fighting, it's reasonable to think that a future bird could take it to another level. probably wouldn't evolve specifically for handling prey, though, since they're already doing fine with beaks and talons.
toothed snouts and long tails are more questionable. i think there's possible pressures for a tail (a large terrestrial bird might benefit from having one to aid with balance and turning, 'specially if it's cursorial, although afaik nothing like that has re-evolved so far so it seems unlikely imho), but it seems like they're sticking with the beaks for the foreseeable future. they can do pretty much everything a snout can, and as a bonus tend to be lighter and less expensive.

this is literally the nerd channel what r u doing here

[bitter oasis]

Lets not troll or provoke users please. refer to our #rules .

[iron halo]

Same person who reacted to their own message with laughing emojis. I wouldn’t worry about it

[frail robin]

I agree with ya. Although I kinda find it confusing how no bird has taken the Pelagornis route and just evolved teeth-like ridges on their beaks

[covert lintel]

geese have sorta done it! the "teeth" are... a lot smaller, but they're there!
and penguins. oh dear. oh no. Penguins (they have nightmare mouths)

[frail robin]

Penguins kind of copied sea turtles in that aspect tbh

[covert lintel]

true lol

[frail robin]

So lame that the KPG extinction happened. We could have been santient Troodontids

[bronze leaf]

Do y’all think the smaller dinosaurs like micro raptor and velociraptor could speak?

[astral kelp]

Speak what? Human language, Dino language?

[ancient crystal]

Unless you mean "speak" as in the same way a dog can "speak" as a command, I'm going to say a definitive no

[jagged trellis]

they might mean how parrot can mimic us but don't fully understand it normally

dunno what they namely mean but basically: as in just normal comminucation? yeah, human speaking style? some could probably mimic but thats just speculation off of chance and less language breaking and more copying noises

[west quarry]

I thought the intelligence levels of Troodontids was greatly exaggerated

[frail robin]

The earlist syrinx appeared in birds and their relatives after the KPG extinction, so no, velociraptor couldn't "speak" or make very complicated noises

@west quarry no, Troodontids were pretty smart. They had the largest brain-to-body ratio of any non-avian dinosaur irrc