game-discussion

[paper jewel]

The problem is, people want their vision of the game. When Simon and the team already has a vision in mind

EA was probably the healthiest way for indie studios to even get their foot off the ground.

Do people take advantage of it? Yes.
But that's what everyone does, everywhere.

(Hell, look at ashes of creation, they are being nuked from orbit)

[red peak]

Regardless, It's been fun picking this topic with you, and thanks for keeping it respectful.

I think I've figured out where we draw the lines in things differently.

but on an extra note, you should try out the prerelease branches as they come, seems like you'd be a good fit on testing those stuff early and giving feedback, you might have even prevented the issues that started this convo in the first place!

[heady lynx]

What I mean is that it is not to be taken exclusively as a funding model, which is the trap that developers fall into. Kickstarter has the same problem. What rocks indie studios reputation is forgetting QA.

[paper jewel]

Deep Rock Galactic used EA, people forget that.
And now it's one of the biggest games in history

[upbeat wigeon]

Minecraft was EA technically.

[paper jewel]

So was team fortress 2

[solar basin]

Deeprock is just peak.

[heady lynx]

Are the prereleases on another branch?

[upbeat wigeon]

Dwarf Fortress I would consider Early Access.

[marble wolf]

Rock and stone!

[paper jewel]

No, dwarf fortress is a passion project.

They made it to pay for medical funds

[red peak]

Yessir. go to your launcher settings and can swap over from Release to prerelease.

although the notes are all on simon twitter. which is little frustating

[paper jewel]

and it just, kept going

[upbeat wigeon]

What are you on about? The medical funds thing is only a couple years old. EA games can be free, DF was for years, technically still is, you just pay if you want fancy graphics and to support Tarn and Zach.

[paper jewel]

they realeased it to steam to stabilize income.

It was still taking donations in the old days to pay for bills and stuff.

[heady lynx]

Prereleases are where QA is done. I dip into that from time to time to support testing efforts. However, I'm getting that experience regardless in the public branch. Until that changes, I see no reason to encourage the pretense.

[upbeat wigeon]

I know that. I'm just confused why you said it wouldn't be EA.

[paper jewel]

Dwarf fortress isn't EA because there's no "Final build" in mind.

[upbeat wigeon]

Does EA necessitate a final planned end goal though?

[peak pine]

Finally I am back to accessing these channels again

[paper jewel]

It does, yes.
"early access"

[split imp]

I only just now heard about the February 5th patch having the avatar presets. I’m very glad that they got that feature out. When I made my avatar over a month ago, I had to spam “undo” to undo all the changes I make if I tried to improve my avatar and ended up preferring how it originally was.

[upbeat wigeon]

I always took Early Access to be more representitive of the fact you're getting a game that is still in heavy development and isn't finished.

[paper jewel]

Overwatch is still being heavily developed and improved upon but isn't EA

A lot of games after release are.
Like terraria

minecraft, so on

EA typically denotes "We don't have all the planned features for full release added in yet, but we are releasing it early for testing/funding/etc"

active development =/= EA

[upbeat wigeon]

Then is the fact that DF has tons of features not added yet that they plan, major game systems and such, not a good reason to consider it EA?

[analog rampart]

double edge sword

[paper jewel]

Again no, because there's no "Full release" they ahve in mind.

[upbeat wigeon]

No, but there are more 'complete' versions in mind. I'd argue that is enough to consider it a type of early access.

Like, the magic update that is planned. That's going to change the whole game to an extreme degree.

[paper jewel]

Not really, They have things they want to add.
That's different from say, "This is the game we have in mind"

[craggy dome]

hey guys hows hytale for yall

[paper jewel]

Again, it's just active development.

[split imp]

Rock and Stone! (Raises pickaxe overhead)

[paper jewel]

i built in a desert and bugs keep spitting on my face

EA is typically seen as a business/funding model to ensure the game can have the money to finish it's desires.

Dwarf fortress is probably going to continue to have updates until they decide to retire from it

[split imp]

Actually a deep rock galactic inspired server mini game would be kinda cool once servers can be made and people get really creative with it…

[dusky pumice]

Have you noticed how ready the game is for the Botania mod? Mana is a game mechanic, we not only have many colors of flowers but the petals too already baked into the base game. The groundwork is mostly complete!

[paper jewel]

People already dug up a tinker's construct-like table in the game files.

[half peak]

tried to make a bug report and it timed out and dc'd me :p

[dusky pumice]

all that's left is thaumcraft and you have the big 3 from my favorite modpack

[whole wind]

I would love for a more fleshed out magic system, for sure. Roots was another big mod I loved using - nature/druid based spells and themes

[paper jewel]

sadly, thaumcraft is retired.

The dude stopped working on it so he could focus on life/college, iirc

and as much as I'd love thaumcraft in hytale, I don't want someone to steal his work and profit off it.

[dusky pumice]

I hope they make Regrowth here, and someone picks thaumcraft back up in his stead)

[warm sable]

If they have been given the Go ahead, then i welcome thaumcraft!

[upbeat wigeon]

Couldn't they just not profit from it?

[warm sable]

that old modpack where everything is a wasteland?

[paper jewel]

That's hard to do when Hytale's entire monetization platform seems to be based around brand/author notoriety.

[dusky pumice]

yes, it feels like a flat land skyblock with a self-guided tour of all the mods

[paper jewel]

you dont want someone becoming popular by filtching other's mods.

[upbeat wigeon]

I mean, if the Open Source it, and just ensure that everyone knows it's a Community Made port, I see no real issue.

[warm sable]

i might think of the wrong thing

[upbeat wigeon]

I mean, assumedly, you just wouldn't monetize it.

[paper jewel]

oh, no doubt. If the original creator greenlights it, I don't mind others porting it.

but until then, I'd rather it stay there out of respect for other's work

[teal forge]

Which does farming better? Hytale or Minecraft?

[paper jewel]

Hytale.
Why do I need water RIGHT next to my dang crops

(to be fair, vintage story has the best crops, but also the most infuriating at times)

[paper jewel]

I just want the maker of Scape and Run to get over here already.

I need my parasites in Hytale.

[dusky pumice]

i've only played the 7.?.? ver don't remember exact. had the audio line right at the beginning when you opened the quest book

[teal forge]

I vastly prefer Minecraft because you actually get seeds back and can go exploring to grow new crops. Also you can get saplings directly from trees instead of having to start a massive farm first

[upbeat wigeon]

But what is disrespectful about making a community made port of a mod? That's the thing I don't understand about what you're saying. I'd understand if the mod was monetized, or closed source, or fradulently claimed to be made originally and such.

True, I love scape and run so much.

[warm sable]

@dusky pumice mine craft/mod packs/regrowth -an-hqm-pack this one?

it's a 1.7.10 modpack.

[paper jewel]

Well, from what Simon said.
You can monetize some of your mods.
The issue is, people getting popular by taking dead mods from minecraft and porting them over.

This alone causes a weird idealogy that if you just steal ideas, eventually people will pay you for it

[dusky pumice]

i think so, it's no longer installed...

[warm sable]

this modpack have you start in a vast wasteland with dead shrubs and a few other things around.

[paper jewel]

The entire business model of paid mods muddies the waters, purely from its concept

[dusky pumice]

bingo

[upbeat wigeon]

I mean, I'd agree, if you monetize a mod that you ported, that's incredibly immoral behavior. Granted I also believe any monetization of mods, donations wouldn't count, is bad, so.

That said though, I'd argue that you shouldn't be able to have complete control over an idea. That sounds very bad for innovation and improvement.

[teal forge]

Like why on earth am I FORCED to start a whole entire farm just to be able to regrow trees? Hytales farming bench is stupid

[dusky pumice]

was very nicely integrated. nearly all mods were linked in a natural way

[paper jewel]

that's how patents and copyright works.

If you have an idea, it protects it from being stolen

[warm sable]

What are you talking abput? I'd LOVE to spend every little coin i earned working hard to get some little tiny mod to work in my game. Best ever. Can't get enough of that /s

[warm sable]

i remember when youtubers were all over the modpack . Because it did what not other back still not have yet done. It still stands out.

[paper jewel]

also, literally anything on github/minecraft/curseforge/etc are tied to some form of copyright by EULA, so.

[vagrant raven]

Nope
Seems they don't spawn currently

[paper jewel]

Most places that allow individual user-code impliments copyright to protect their users

[dusky pumice]

even had a great final boss idea in botania's guardian of gaia and both of its great backing tracks(oh! gaia!)

[warm sable]

The only "license" i have people follow of the mods i make: "If you want to take it over or fork it, just let me know, just so i can keep taps. That's all, have fun and enjoy." I just like to know what the heck is going on. Fairly simple license if that can even be called that 😉

[paper jewel]

Well, you are still bound to some copyright licensing purely based on the software/programming used

like I said, most things have BASE copyrights that protect individual users.

[warm sable]

i suppose...

[paper jewel]

It's mainly there so if you do say "Just let me know"
You still have authority to stop someone from monetizing your work

[upbeat wigeon]

I think those are bad, at the least in the context of games, and definitely in the context of modding.

[paper jewel]

Not really.
The issue is patenting core mechanics.
Not an entire mod itself.

[upbeat wigeon]

I do agree that would be bad, but I think it's just baseline bad to monetize mods.

[paper jewel]

if someone wants to reverse engineer thaumcraft, making it their own things without copying it one-to-one, they can.

But you have to show derivative work.

[dusky pumice]

and if they release it free, there is no monetization to prosecute

[upbeat wigeon]

But why shouldn't someone be able to take something they like and use that?

[paper jewel]

Not really.
Monetizing mods 'is' a new idea.
But it's not foreign.

People pay artists to draw art, all the time.

[pseudo plank]

There are some attempts at this already. Elements by Verdo is doing some cool stuff with essence jars with some pipes and a form of rituals

[upbeat wigeon]

Yeah, and when we commodified drawing, it was hurt by it.

[paper jewel]

Say you have, no followers or community.
And make a really great mod.

Then someone with 3 million followers, steals it and changes a few things

which happens.... a lot. Already.

[paper jewel]

Oh, I know. It looks nice.
But that's why I want thaumcraft to stay dead.

Take the idea, and make it something new. Let the guy's legacy rest and improve on it

(for people that don't know, Elements is literaly just thaumcraft in hytale)

[pseudo plank]

Thaumcraft doesnt have to stay dead for other mods to thrive. They can coexist just fine

[paper jewel]

Dead as in, don't take the dude's work.
Make your own version of it.

[upbeat wigeon]

As long as they aren't lying about making things they didn't make, aren't monetizing, because that would be bad, and everyone was able to take it and modify it as they wished, then I wouldn't necessarily mind? If I liked those changes I could take those and merge them back into my thing. If they made it better, then I'd like that, if they made it different because they had a different idea of what it could be, I'd be glad that there are more things people could use. I'd still keep developing my mod.

I might be misunderstanding what you are saying, do you have an example I could look at to get a better idea of what you mean?

[paper jewel]

This is where it's a slippery, muddy slope.

You have to show, again 'derivative work'.
The issue is 1:1 taking of code/images/etc.

[upbeat wigeon]

I mean yes, if they just copy every little thing, and release it with no changes, in the same context, that's a bad thing to do, but that's because you're lying about making it.

[paper jewel]

Just going "This is thaumcraft ported into hytale" Bad.
Elements by Verdo, is changing a majority of the concept while keeping the idea of essence/jars thematically, good.

[upbeat wigeon]

But porting something 1 ot 1 in a different game, I'd argue, is completely fine, because it's not the same thing as a mod for the game it came from.

[paper jewel]

again, the issue is porting it into a medium that allows monetization

[upbeat wigeon]

Yeah, if they did this, it would only be moral if unmonetized.

[paper jewel]

"allows" specifically.

[dusky pumice]

Donation system with baked-in opt-in option for original creator to draw a % and mod becomes labeled as a OC-Validated successor/reboot of that mod. OC can decline to draw but still grant OCV status.

[paper jewel]

sadly there's a LOT of legal things you have to jump through to allow money to be exchanged.
Copyright is one of them

[copper trench]

When it comes to creative works, it's not the idea that gets patented (although you can argue that a lot of patents are in violation of that, especially what big gaming companies are doing nowadays), it's the execution of it. I'd still say that simply porting a mod is kind of in violation of that though, depending on the original license 😅

@upbeat wigeon if you're doing it for the hell of it and don't care about what comes out of your mod, it's fine. But a lot of people do want at least some recognition from the mods that they make, and having some bigger creator make a derivative spinoff of them runs counter to that

[pseudo plank]

Oh yeah I see what you mean

[upbeat wigeon]

Well, yeah, that's why I said it should be unmonetized.

[paper jewel]

I mean even using the platform itself.

Because it takes one bad egg to ruin the entire thing

[upbeat wigeon]

Ok, but I'd argue that they're in it for the wrong reasons if they're doing it to be known.

[upbeat wigeon]

Well, that's part of why I don't think any mods should be monetized.

[paper jewel]

Hytale is the first to really test the waters.
And why I am sure Simon is being radio-silent about ANY of it until its finalized

It's a very fickle, risky thing to do.

[copper trench]

What is the correct reason for doing mods, then? And why is it wrong for a creative to expect recognition for what they do?

[dusky pumice]

Nintendo v. Pocketpair for example...

[upbeat wigeon]

I mean. No.
Ark <- went horribly.
Skyrim <- Also kinda bad
Fallout <- Also kinda bad

[paper jewel]

deep rock galactic's only microtransactions are cosmetic and are flourishing.

[upbeat wigeon]

Passion, and wanting to do it. Those should be the motivators for modding. Not fame and not money.

[gaunt terrace]

this has been how art works for like milennia btw

[paper jewel]

and only like 4% of artists actually profit enough to live off it

[upbeat wigeon]

Purely cosmetic microtransactions are fine in games, but that doesn't carry over to them being fine in mods. They can probably be arguably ok, but they're more in the gray.

[paper jewel]

also technically Roblox does it and does it well (enough, if you look past the aggressive microtx)

You can code on it and profit from it

[gaunt terrace]

true as hell but it's not a problem with the way we do art, it's a problem with the way we do economics

[upbeat wigeon]

I'd argue that Roblox is a microcosm of why it's bad. Look at how it trended into slop, gambling, and pay to win.

[paper jewel]

In the beginning, it was good. But then fell apart due to the predatory practices
People found out you can slopfest and profit

[upbeat wigeon]

Which is inevitable with monetization and the profit motive.

[wanton elbow]

palworld is genuinely such a good game

[paper jewel]

I have faith Simon will do what's best for the game/community

Hypixel has existed for as long as it did, for a reason.

[copper trench]

Passion and wanting to be known are not mutually exclusive. The point of a lot of mod developer's journeys is to share their work with others (otherwise why would anyone want to make their work public?) and build a community around what they do. Because this works both ways: you delight other people and other people delight you with feedback

[paper jewel]

Not really.
It shows the quality of said mod, and it's deservance of profit.

just because something feels like it's an overall and needed improvement to the base game, doesn't entitle people to it freely. (in terms of mods)

[proud hornet]

We arguing about whether paid mods should be allowed again?

[upbeat wigeon]

Of course, but I'd argue that wanting to known is a perverse incentive.

I like sharing my work as well, but I will never do what I do for anything other than passion, because I know that corrupts the passion.

If you build a community, that's valid, but the goal should never be to get famous or be known.

[wanton elbow]

i feel like if a mod is needed to have a great experience playing a game thats only poor on the game developer's half regardless of any monetization

[paper jewel]

cough bethesda cough

[upbeat wigeon]

No. I disagree fully. If you lock actual playable content in a mod behind a paywall, you are engaging in immoral practices. Modding is for the community and the modder.

[paper jewel]

from what it seems like....

Simon wants people to develop a name-brand using smaller mods, and get paid for their time/effort for larger things.
It is an incentive to create large-scale mods.

[wanton elbow]

but you were never promised that content to begin with when you started playing the game

[paper jewel]

sadly, the world has leaned into an entitlement issue

[upbeat wigeon]

Yeah. Doesn't matter though. If you mod a game, you owe it to all to make that mod freely accessible. Profiting off of modding is a path to the degredation of modding. Just look at ARK.

[paper jewel]

just dont use the mod, then

You aren't being forced.

[upbeat wigeon]

Once again, just look at what happened to ARK. It doesn't matter if the individual doesn't, that rot spreads anyway.

[paper jewel]

Gaming is a commodity, not a necessity, you aren't entitled to everything freely

[vagrant raven]

Make something really good
Get hired by the actual game team

Kinda like Violet

[upbeat wigeon]

Everyone is entitled to mods being freely accessible I'd argue.

[paper jewel]

That's because of the company that bought up ARK wanted to aggressively monetize it.

[cerulean plaza]

Whats everyone creating today?

[copper trench]

I think we are talking about different kinds of fame. I'm not talking about mods that are made only for the sake of the author being recognized. I'm referring back to the part of conversation that was about big authors making derivative projects from a smaller author. The feedback and recognition that they are given could've been funnelled back to you, but isn't

[upbeat wigeon]

Mhm, and then it happened in the Bethesda modding games as well.

[vagrant raven]

Sore abs, lats, and deltoids, apparently

[upbeat wigeon]

Oh, yeah I'd agree that you should credit stuff when you use it to make something.

[pseudo plank]

Watching whatever tf is happening in here and taking my time to add all my items into my lang file aha

Got some cool essence plants done today though

[upbeat wigeon]

If they don't all have descriptions then you have failed.

[paper jewel]

A curse of bad indenting onto you, sir

[pseudo plank]

You both hate me :((

[paper jewel]

No, I've suffered from it myself.
Realized I had double spaced instead of indented on code before and it took me hours to solve it.

[upbeat wigeon]

I literally shout you out in the intro message to my mod. That's the opposite of hating you.

[pseudo plank]

If people really need a description to explain what copper dust is, imma lose it ahaha

[pseudo plank]

wait what mod?? You havent told me about this yet

[upbeat wigeon]

Memento Mori, my main mod.

[vagrant raven]

Copper dust is the name of one of my favorite shades of eyeshadow
🥺 👉 👈

[upbeat wigeon]

It's about the principle of the thing. Granted, I got bored of that repetitive stuff, so I just used the descriptions to write lore stuff.

[craggy dome]

have u guys seen minecraft now requring age verification??? that's such a bs

[paper jewel]

wait until you hear what discord is trying to do

[craggy dome]

ik sadly

[vagrant raven]

All big tech wants biometric and government ID
That's why I'm leaving discord in a few more days

[paper jewel]

I have faith that Reddit will protect us

[pseudo plank]

Only asked and now you're threatening me with my own mortality ahah /s

[pseudo plank]

Do you have all the dusts? I imagine Cobalt Dust eyeshadow would go hard

[craggy dome]

we must resist it too

[upbeat wigeon]

Pft.

@vagrant raven They already have it, my friend.

[paper jewel]

the only dust I have is crop

[proud hornet]

Following your logic sports players shouldnt be paid, and art should be worthless because its for the passion right? What about hand made Rolls Royce cars? Shouldn't they be free because the makers should just do it for the passion? Just a thought

[paper jewel]

(technically art is worthless)

[teal forge]

Why don't trees drop saplings? This game is stupid

[paper jewel]

That's the entire concept of a commodity.

[pseudo plank]

Im ashamed to have laughed at that

[flint field]

They don’t do that in real life when you cut them

[paper jewel]

I am sure I can't stand in lava for 15 seconds

Well, no. I never tried... nevermind.

[paper jewel]

people out here saying communism bad but then wanting its benefits, SMH

[upbeat wigeon]

Rolls Royce cars are bad because
a) Cars are rather bad for the average person to have, we should replace that with public transport.
b) Luxury cars are just a bad trend, they tend to be fuel inefficient, really loud, and bad.

Yeah, sports should be purely for the fun of it, they've been ruined by commodification.

Yeah, the best art is that made only from passion, I agree with that wholeheartedly. It is worthless, and that's ok. Not everything has to be worth something. I make art, and I've long accepted that.

[vagrant raven]

I think one of the dark cerulean shades on my juvia's place palette is pretty close to the cobalt ore color

[pseudo plank]

@upbeat wigeon Your mod looks awesome, Imma check it out later :D

[short tulip]

Use the farm bench

[proud hornet]

So you just hate capitalism. Gotcha

[teal forge]

Trees give you no essences of life. Shouldn't have to farm other unrelated crops just to be able to replant trees.

[paper jewel]

(am I bad because I use to do coding/modding for paid bounties?)

[upbeat wigeon]

Of course, it's ruined healthcare, american cities, the USA's government, NASA, public institutions, the gaming industry, programming, etc.

[woven sapphire]

Serilum's tree Harvester mod makes trees drop a random amount of saplings and auto-plants one when you crouch+chop a tree.

[vagrant raven]

Another reason for Universal Basic Income: everyone having enough to cover the necessities to allow time and freedom to pursue creative endeavors

Also better public transportation>more cars

[short tulip]

The whole world doesnt live in a giant city. There are people who commute 100 miles round trip a day just for work

[paper jewel]

It's also afforded many good things.

[teal forge]

I wonder what the little pips inside of apples are for then. Or the helicopters dropped by sycamore trees. Or acorns or conkers

[short tulip]

Why not?

[paper jewel]

those are cyanide canisters. Eat a thousand of them in an hour

[dark trail]

if you think the game is stupid then why did you buy it?

[upbeat wigeon]

And it's killing millions of people by the day. Everyone denied healthcare, those who die from opium, smoking, cigarettes, essential oil scams, anti vaccine stuff, gambling deaths and ruined lives, the people killed by cars, etc.

[paper jewel]

also, the game is still in early access, so.

[short tulip]

Nah, hes just voicing his opinion. I want to hear him out

[proud hornet]

And other things are doing so much better...

[pseudo plank]

I know nothing about makeup so I don't know what half of those things are but hell yeah!!

[woven sapphire]

Or pinecones

[upbeat wigeon]

Yeah, that's bad, and example of the abject failure of the public transport system.

[paper jewel]

Funfact about bringing up smoking.

Did you know it was germany in WW2 that was actively against smoking and even campaigned against cigarettes, offering people monetary and healthcare assistance to quit?

Does that make what they did good? No.

[dark trail]

i know, but it still bugs me when people buy games that are early access, and complain about the game not being finished, or doesn't have X feature when it could be in the works, etc etc

[short tulip]

Genuine question though. Why shouldnt core gameplay loops interact with each other? Combat requires you to mine for high tier ore. Mining requires you to kill higher and higher tier mobs for materials to upgrade benches.
Why shouldnt farming and building interact beyond "thats not how minecraft does it"
As to the realism, crops don't give you seeds when you break them

[upbeat wigeon]

Weird, I would not have expected the them to care about that, guess it was cutting into their health stuff too much.

[paper jewel]

It affected the health of the superior race. It caused cancer, health issues, etc.

[vagrant raven]

Cerulean is a shade of blue with a small hint of green to it
Juvia's Place is a good brand of decent quality cosmetics that have very good color saturation and pigmentation, so they show up on a variety of skin colors
A palette just refers to a package of different eyeshadow colors, in this instance

[teal forge]

Bought it before realising the farming makes no sense / is super realistic by 21st century standards where seed saving is illegal and you need to buy everything

[copper trench]

You don't think that the entertainment it gives you is worth anything? Sure it's not necessary to "survive", if that's your metric (idk if it is), but no one is happy just surviving

[short tulip]

You think i should have to take a bus that stops every .5 mile to get to my job thats 45 miles away?

[upbeat wigeon]

Of course, fascists are incoherent, so they simultaneously did a bunch of drugs.

[vagrant raven]

Yes, actually.

[upbeat wigeon]

No, you should be able to take a train, and have a job near you.

[paper jewel]

The bigger issue is, do enough people want to use public transit.
Many adopted personal cars because of the freedom and choice

[short tulip]

Do you have no actionable critiques and you have no articulable reasons for holding your opinions? So you're just being mean to a game you dont like. Got it.

[pseudo plank]

Palette was the one thing I did get ahaha, but thank you for the info :D Learn something new every day :)

[teal forge]

It's best when players have freedom to play how they want. It's not having core gameplay loops interacting, it's adding an arbitrary obstacle in the way of a very simple thing that forces players to spend so much extra time farming JUST to be able to grow more wood

[paper jewel]

public transit is great. Until you realize other people exist

[short tulip]

I dont want a job near me, i live in the middle of no where on purpose. Nor do i want to take a train into a city and then be left without the ability to freely travel on my own schedule

[upbeat wigeon]

No, it's not, because it's more damaging.

[upbeat wigeon]

Except, places with good public transport use it all the time. We just have bad public transport.

[dark trail]

depending on what bus services you have, their are ones that do long trips with minimal stops.

[copper trench]

Art is more damaging? Wdym?

(I wasn't referring to the car stuff, but the latter part)

[paper jewel]

Art created gooners, nuff said

[vagrant raven]

Other people that you think are icky would probably be more normal in your eyes if they weren't left to fend for themselves for health, mental, dental, etc, while at best not making enough to do more than survive

[short tulip]

All gameplay loops are secretly just obstacles that are in the way of what you want. Thats what makes it a game.
If you instantly got to do exactly what you want you wouldnt be playing a game, you'd be playing pretend

[upbeat wigeon]

Then live in a City? Also, in a good city you could get anywhere with just public transport and walking.

[paper jewel]

I mean the drunk and drug addicts, gangmembers, the new wave of tiktokkers that abuse people on busses.

[gaunt terrace]

here in my country, public transit is constantly full

[teal forge]

Ok but explain why I need to farm cabbage to plant a tree

[pseudo plank]

Simple stuff like this should be a human right, and you shouldnt have to struggle to gain access to any of these. Also including food, shelter, heat, water etc

[gaunt terrace]

It's so convenient to move everywhere with our public transit system i dont even feel the need to have a car

[flint field]

Gaia works in mysterious ways

[short tulip]

Minimal stops is still more than no stops and that still leaves me without a means of transport on my own schedule. Im not interested in paying thw exorbitant fees required for public transport in an area where the population density is something like 1 person per square mile

[paper jewel]

And where I live we have public transit to this and 4 nearby towns.

And they are struggling financially
It doesn't work everywhere

[upbeat wigeon]

Oh, no, the art will be harmed by being that. It's going to be degraded and ground into nothing, so the entertainment will be ultimately destroyed by that.

[upbeat wigeon]

Yeah, it's bad public transport. That's literally what I'm saying.

[teal forge]

Why doesn't the game give you options so you can either stay at home and work through progression cottagecore style or go adventuring to distant lands to find exotic seeds? It forces people to a particular playstyle that they may not enjoy

[vagrant raven]

Yes. Most of those people fall into the categories I just mentioned
Not a lot of access to care to help with addiction, job market is abysmal and what people get doesn't cover needs, education and social services are in shambles so gang recruitment is high, etc

[paper jewel]

because it's EA

[gaunt terrace]

Wdym they are struggling financially. Since when are public services meant to generate profit?

[short tulip]

Because it forces you to engage with the farming mechanic to have infinite wood. It onboards players primarily interested in building into the farming system so they already have food stores if and when they decide to start adventuring

[upbeat wigeon]

Yeah wait, are you one of those insane people that thinks public services exist to turn profit?

[paper jewel]

how is something suppose to operate on a deficit.

[gaunt terrace]

taxpayer money???

[upbeat wigeon]

Taxes? Do you understand how the economy works?

[teal forge]

Yeah thats why im bringing this up to see if anyone else thinks it could be improved

[paper jewel]

Then why am I paying to use the transit if I have to pay taxes on it.

[upbeat wigeon]

What are you talking about?

[vagrant raven]

Because money is made up, and is hoarded by roughly 2800 people to control and ruin the lives of the other 8 billion

[cerulean plaza]

Nice. I added a tool to HyBridge that does all your lang files at once for you in 1 click. Oh it's so nice.

[short tulip]

You're assuming that all games need to cater to all people. If you want a cozy cottage core crafting game go play one, no one is forcing you to enjoy hytale.
Genuine statement with no malice. You dont need to like everything and not everything needs to cater to every single persob

[upbeat wigeon]

The public transit would be free, and funded by taxpayer money.

[dark trail]

Um. this game is about exploration, and crafting, need to do both. Its almost like arguing about buying a shooter game, and complaining that you have to go shoot things

[paper jewel]

I want to cook in dark souls, and am disappointed at the lack of options for pickled feet

[paper jewel]

Sir. People are complaining that a game called Mewgenics is about eugenics.

[gaunt terrace]

That doesn't sound very public. Here it's free or really just a symbolic ammount.

[vagrant raven]

Because most of people's taxes go towards wars overseas, tax credits to big corporations, and beefing up the armory of the enforcement arm of state violence instead of infrastructure, UBI, m4a, etc

[pseudo plank]

Wdym by that? Like it goes through all your items and adds a line for them in a lang file?

[paper jewel]

That's the issue, yes.

It's not a tax-funded public transit, it's a pay per use.
They have been bailed out a few times already by the city

[short tulip]

I would like the game more if the devs doubled down on loop integration and made every single system require full engagement with every other system.
I dont say the game is bad because that isnt the case nor do i think the devs need to cater to my specific tastes.
If you want the game to behave differently to what it is, mod it in

[upbeat wigeon]

Oh, then again, your public transit is bad, and it should be made good.

[teal forge]

What do you see in Hytale's farming system that you enjoy so much?

[cerulean plaza]

Yep. It's an IDE, I'm building tools to make easy for myself. I hope to have a beta maybe next week

[dark trail]

true but how many of those people actually own the game

[paper jewel]

No, it's the fact no one is really using it around here. It's been slowly phased out due to other things like Uber

[gaunt terrace]

Where was the percentage again?

[upbeat wigeon]

Yeah, once again, capitalism ruining stuff. This proves my point.

[short tulip]

Id dont want to pay for my neighbor to be chaufered 100 miles to his job.
That would put an undue burden on those who benefit the least from the service

[vagrant raven]

Welcome to neoliberalism and the "public/private partnership" where public services are intentionally gutted to make private businesses more profitable

[paper jewel]

yes, we know, capitalism bad, return to monke

[upbeat wigeon]

Ok, then you're a bad person, grow up, and pay so that the world is made a better place.

[gaunt terrace]

Hopefully not. Hopefully advance past it, instead of regressing

[short tulip]

"Move to the city and eat your slop"
Lmao

[shell dome]

This server needs a general discussion channel I can ignore.

[upbeat wigeon]

Mmm, that's not what I said, is it?

[cerulean plaza]

yeah this seems off topic

[vagrant raven]

Your neighbor should be able to afford to live closer to work, or to work remotely

[pseudo plank]

Ohhh cool! I just remembered that there are plans to release an NPC editor to us fairly soon, Simon mentioned it last night, something like that included in your ide would be awesome too

[paper jewel]

climber detected

[gaunt terrace]

The way you phrase it all just sounds so silly lmao

[flint field]

why would Varyn take away funding from public services, is he evil?

[short tulip]

My neighbor makes six digits raising horses

[shell dome]

Climber?

[gaunt terrace]

MY Varyn would never do this. This is a psyop

[paper jewel]

White knuckle

[upbeat wigeon]

Fair, but honestly, I grow tired of dealing with self obssessed individualists who don't believe in making the world better because they wouldn't explicitly benefit from it.

[teal forge]

Without sapling drops, Hytale is a deforestation simulator. If new players can't replant trees then all major servers will be completely devoid of trees for thousands of blocks

[flint field]

He did though, YOUR guy is evil.

[paper jewel]

The sad reality is it isn't the individuals burden to sacrifice for the entirety.

[gaunt terrace]

I cannot believe the evil creature of darkness and malice defunded my public transit

[shell dome]

You can make saplings, but also, not all saplings, game is still early early access, give it time to approach more important aspects.

[vagrant raven]

Again: there are roughly 2800 billionaires
There should be zero

[short tulip]

If i pay for your public transport are you going to pay for my fire department services? Im already paying 1200 dollars a year for the """right""" to call 911

[upbeat wigeon]

Yeah it is. It literally is. That is how humans got to this point of complete world dominance. Everyone chips in, and we all benefit.

[paper jewel]

no, world domination came about through blood and war.
Wars we are still fighting

[upbeat wigeon]

Yes. I will, and I'll do it happily knowing that people are being given better lives.

[upbeat wigeon]

We only won wars through coordination and working as a group.

[cerulean plaza]

yeah I know they are but I think it will take them ages to give us useful tools and we still wont be able to customize their IDE. So I want to make my own. Asset editor has some major design and work flow issues we need to solve.

[paper jewel]

every major stepping stone in human history has been fighting.

We are not a species built on prosperity.

[gaunt terrace]

well of course. better than fire department charging you thousands if you have an emergency

[vagrant raven]

That's how public services work, yes
Everyone chips in based on their available capacity to do so, so that everyone gets the benefit of those services

There's just a number of extremely wealthy individuals who pay literally nothing or less-than-nothing

[simple folio]

they have a moral and social obligation as explained in the "social contract" theory and socrates initial conception of democracy, what we're experiencing today is rampant and unchecked hyper-capitalism that is detrimental to human success and innovation

[pseudo plank]

From the way he was speaking to us, it sounds like it'll be really soon, like within the next 2 weeks

[short tulip]

Ok. Fair enough. In a world where rural areas receive equal representation in groceries, public services, utilities, entertainment, and public transport ill pay for it all.
Until internet lines are actually extended outside city limits ill continue to be an individualist

[gaunt terrace]

i mean imagine having a housefire and deciding not to call the firefighters because it would be too expensive. thats so messed up

[upbeat wigeon]

We literally are though, our brains are hard coded to require social interaction and gain massive mental health benefits from assisting others, we've done it since the stone age when whole groups would sacrifice to keep their disabled family alive.

[fallow monolith]

This is some good game discussion

[cerulean plaza]

thats great. It's needed

[paper jewel]

right?

[flint field]

Joosp smells

[fallow monolith]

I smell good, thanks for the inquiry!

[upbeat wigeon]

But those areas will never get those things if people are individualistic is the issue. It's a self defeating cycle.

[short tulip]

Except i already dont get any of the benefits of a community. My closest grocery store is 20 minutes away

[pseudo plank]

If you read around it, there is some game discussion here somewhere ahaha

[upbeat wigeon]

I feel bad for you, that sounds quite lonely.

[paper jewel]

it's political hour, sadly.

[short tulip]

We dont get those services because whole foods wont build a store to serve 50 people, lmao

[paper jewel]

It started off as paid mod arguement and went here. Like always

[dark trail]

so's mine, so quit being a whiny tart

[woeful pagoda]

Somehow I knew the "general" channel would get political eventually.

[pseudo plank]

Yeah I don't get involved in that stuff, never have. I'm just here cuz Hytale is cool

[short tulip]

Its actually really nice. I have 160 acres of virgin forest in my backyard

[paper jewel]

bluntly put, it's just people virtue signalling, like always.

[gaunt terrace]

i agree with you on contractualism but i dont think SOCRATES gives a good example of what a democracy is

and Plato is just classist

[short tulip]

You live in a city and the closest place to buy food is 25 miles away?

[dusk shale]

Is there a list of FOSS mods for Hytale?

[dark trail]

never said i live in a city

[paper jewel]

FOSS?

[vagrant raven]

Yes, and this is done intentionally by those with the reins of power
Our elected officials are bought and paid for to continue to enrich those who paid for them

This is done by making things awful for the vast majority of folks, and threatening dissenters with state violence to ensure compliance, while selling people on propaganda that individuals have more in common with multimillionaires and billionaires than they do with the unhoused near them

[short tulip]

And i never said i dont like being in the country

[dusk shale]

Free open source, aka libre

[gaunt terrace]

thats so sad i wish you could get that

[paper jewel]

Curseforge

[woeful pagoda]

Is rich enough to own land:
Is a furry:

Yep, checks out!

[pseudo plank]

The same back and forth I've been hearing for the last 20 something years. It never changes, and nobody ever changes their mind

[dark trail]

sounds like you do, if you complain about things being far away

[paper jewel]

hytale uses curseforge for its modding library

[dusk shale]

Most of mods don't have a GitHub link

[simple folio]

the point is, even socrates couldn't envision the mess we've gotten ourselves into today

[paper jewel]

Good observation.

[fallow monolith]

Socrates knows about Hytale I've seen him play

[trim dagger]

theres been quit a bit of updates since I last played is worldgen v2 out yet?

[upbeat wigeon]

Ok, that part does sound nice.

[short tulip]

You know i dont live in an impoverished area, right? All 3 of my closest neighbors live in million dollar homes

[proud hornet]

Nothing like getting lectured by a city kid about how everyone should live their life 😔

[paper jewel]

Almost no mod for hytale will be open source.

[fallow monolith]

Socrates is terrible at Skyblock

[paper jewel]

because the current climate is "You are wrong if I'm right"
Instead of people seeing the validity in both sides

[upbeat wigeon]

To be fair, people in cities make up most of the population,

[dusk shale]

Why ? Sorry comming from luanti, don't know Minecraft community

[paper jewel]

Hytale plans to have monetization for its mods.

So, if you let people just, steal your work.

[vagrant raven]

You do realize that you aren't the center of the universe and I'm talking about systemic issues that contribute to rural areas not having access to groceries/hospitals/etc, right?

[short tulip]

Yeah, and they tend to have good ideas on how cities can function but very bad ideas on how rural areas fhnction

[gaunt terrace]

hey im a broke ahh furry what is your point many furry people are broke💔

[short tulip]

I think you have a schewed idea on what rural means in many rural areas.

[paper jewel]

except that one fursuitter that can throw 12k in 4 months

[dusk shale]

Maybe not all mods want monetization

[paper jewel]

Regardless.
People out there will steal, and try to monetize it.
That's just how people act nowadays

[upbeat wigeon]

To be fair, at least in America, our rural areas don't function. They have horribly high rates of suicide, bigotry, lack of access to essentials, mental health issues, etc. Now most of our cities are like that as well due to bad design, with a few exceptions, but even the bad cities tend to outperform the rural areas.

[shell dome]

I'd be fine with throwing any mods I make out there open source, would save me the trouble of updating it if it breaks, lmao.

[gaunt terrace]

yeah those are like a low percentage most of us cannot afford that 💔

[woeful pagoda]

Nono.
"if furry, then rich" ❌
"If rich, then furry" ✅

[dark trail]

right good ideas, like you know. Not helping Homeless get back on their feet, by building shelters and providing outreach programs for them. Instead they just try to sweep them into hte sewers so people don't see them

[short tulip]

The areas most people think of as rural are actually thr communities and towns serving rural areas. The very impoverished town i live near has a population of 3000, 2 hospitals, 2 grocery stores, and public transport

[gaunt terrace]

was the island man a furry

[proud hornet]

I only have one of those things and im thriving thanks 🤣

[paper jewel]

90% of homeless initiative programs have been proven to be money scams, you know.

[woeful pagoda]

Prove to me he wasn't. 👀

[paper jewel]

odd1sout is apparently a furry

[gaunt terrace]

he was actually an alien from another galaxy i saw his ufo

[upbeat wigeon]

There isn't a single one of those things you would want to have though.

[gaunt terrace]

im afraid to ask who even is that

[upbeat wigeon]

That sounds like one of those places that all the kids leave because it's a dying town.

[paper jewel]

a youtuber with 20mill followers.
A pretty good bean overall. Does a lot of comics and stuff

[gaunt terrace]

oh thats cool i like comics

[paper jewel]

One day he just, got a fursona because he was curious
And has kept it around

[gaunt terrace]

goes hard ngl

[short tulip]

It is. Those are the communities that need the mass public transit to nearby cities.
Saying private ownership of vehicles is a universal bad is pretty silly because a lot of the people who grow your food cant ride a bus with a trailer full of grain to town

[cerulean plaza]

What Tasks do you wish an IDE would just do for you?
Lang Files is a big one
What else do you hate doing over and over?

[paper jewel]

he started off as an artist, went to a convention.
Became furry, sadge

[broken rivet]

Anyone know of you can turn off in game shadow/shaders. Mainly because it’s messing up the green screen pretty bad

[upbeat wigeon]

I mean, ideally farming shouldn't be a for profit industry. So they wouldn't have to drive it themselves, they'd just have to handle growing the crops.

[shell dome]

Why sadge?

[paper jewel]

currently there's no shader customization atm

[short tulip]

We medieval serfs now

[upbeat wigeon]

I'm not against the concept of work vehicles. I'm against the idea of cars and such for personal transport, because it's inefficient.

[broken rivet]

Thanks

[paper jewel]

always sadge to see another become a furry

[proud hornet]

So you want communism. To put it short

[upbeat wigeon]

Uh, no. That would also be bad.

[gaunt terrace]

i dont think its an universal bad but it's super generalized to the point that everyone and their mother has a car even when they don't use it or need it, and they use it in situations where public transportation is already in place, so like

[short tulip]

Its inneficent to bring a bus full of people 40 miles into the countryside to pick up one redneck and drive him 45 miles to a data center

[upbeat wigeon]

Clarification: are you calling me a stalinist or a marxist leninist?

[gaunt terrace]

and it has gotten bad to a point that in some countries you can't even walk your cities

[paper jewel]

There it is
The downfall of the conversation

[copper trench]

Also there's a trend of recommending everyone to "just live in a city lmao" which is incredibly tone deaf IMO. There are a lot of benefits to living rurally that you don't have in a city, such as less pollution, dealing with no/less antisocial behavior from HOAs and neighbors that is impossible to regulate in any reasonable way, and having a lot more breathing room than being confined in a tiny apartment/housing. It is also generally much healthier for people to be surrounded by nature.

There's a reason why it's kind of a stereotype for programmers to go bonkers, ditch IT entirely and start farming

[shell dome]

What's wrong with "becoming a furry"? If people enjoy anthropomorphic characters, why is that a sad thing?

[upbeat wigeon]

What? Why would a bus make that trip? You'd want a train for that. Also confused on where the data center fits into it.

[simple folio]

so; anything other than hypercapitalism is communism?

[paper jewel]

T'was a joke, laddy.

[gaunt terrace]

yeah its super cool

[shell dome]

"It's just a prank bro"

[upbeat wigeon]

But cities don't need to be like that. The bad ones are, but not the good ones.

[paper jewel]

Madam, my icon is literally a frogge-alien thing

[short tulip]

Thats a solid point. Thats actually why i avoid cities in the first place. Id like to be able to drive to a city, park in a suburban area, and commute on public transport to go to entertainment districts.
I usually just park at the edge of downtown tulsa and walk

[mighty urchin]

i have to stay away from curse forge. im not going to have room for all these work stations

[shell dome]

That... is a fair point. Too much chat going on to look at avs, my bad.

[paper jewel]

Have a rat in these trying times

[dusk shale]

Can't we have a off topic channel ? Too many noise here

[short tulip]

A train or a bus, either way it would have to go out of its way to reach me. The data center comes in cause i work at one, lol

[gaunt terrace]

cities are kinda hell ngl, i can at most tolerate very small ones

[nimble spear]

fork found in kitchen bruh

[paper jewel]

I use to be in the furry community but over the years it's kinda, brain-rotted.

[short tulip]

Ein bepis frogge!

[shell dome]

I still enjoy the media, but the communities are... eh.

[paper jewel]

FROGGE BEPIS MANY COLOUr

[paper jewel]

I joined back in like... 2008?

[upbeat wigeon]

I mean, then yeah? I guess you'd have to take a longer train ride to get there.

[short tulip]

Tulsa has crazy urban sprawl because lmao tornados prevent us from building up. Getting anywhere sucks and taking a bus takes forver because of the distance needing to be covered and the number of stops required

[upbeat wigeon]

Ugh, suburbs are quite bad. The definition of waste. I'm not going to defend the practice of constructing suburbs.

[short tulip]

It would be less efficient for a train to burn fuel for 150 miles than a car to burn fuel for 100 miles. Thars why rural public transpo doesn't make sense

[woeful pagoda]

Bold of you to assume it wasn't falling the whole time.

[upbeat wigeon]

Trains can be electric though, and carry multiple people, so if a train has at least two people on it most of the time, then it's already outperformed two cars. So it's more efficient.

[paper jewel]

"can be" But you also have to think about the energy cost, labour, etc

[short tulip]

This. Im not trading my deer stands, my woods, or my gardens for living closer to work.

[paper jewel]

the infrastructure. Who is paying for all the materials.

[short tulip]

Cars can be electric too

[upbeat wigeon]

By building parks and greenspaces.

[paper jewel]

resources and manpower don't materialize out of will and want

[copper trench]

You can't grow your own garden in a park, huh?

[upbeat wigeon]

Mhm, but they only carry a handful, and are still less efficient than that.

[shell dome]

Man, I bet a bunch of economy teachers would be so proud right now.

[upbeat wigeon]

Have a community garden area.

@short tulip Then just have a public shooting range.

[short tulip]

public shooting range.
Dangit, im in

[proud hornet]

Exactly. Big cities kinda just suck in general, ill take my rural area with a small city and enjoy my motorcycle 😃

[dusk shale]

Curseforge do have a license field in details but no filter, also there are mods MIT without source, and better map has a GitHub repo but it is all Right reserved, no license in repo

[copper trench]

Now you have to deal with even worse neighbors than you would otherwise. You can't regulate human behavior to that extent without going into some really sus territory

[upbeat wigeon]

Ok, but consider, motorcycles are just really bad. People always have them too loud, I see a new grave for a motorcylce accident basically every month, and they keep being dangerous.

[gaunt terrace]

what are you talking about

[upbeat wigeon]

We already regulate human behavior though.

[paper jewel]

NGL, some people do need regulated nowadays.

[gaunt terrace]

why does a public shooting range make you have worse neighbors

[short tulip]

Motorcycles are actually the most efficient form of travel though. 100mpg on gas, even better efficiencies with electric

[upbeat wigeon]

They're far too dangerous, and carry 1-2 people, making them way less efficient than public transport.

Again, I see a new grave every month at least from motorcycle accidents.

[paper jewel]

That face when you remind people electric scooters exist and can pace around 20-30mph.

[short tulip]

They're not less efficient than public transport because they have a lower weight:passenger ratio than pretty much any other vehicle.

[copper trench]

I'm talking about the communal garden stuff. I'm not the shooting range guy. Have you never had to live with people who think they know what's best for you or think that you're somehow infringing on their space by doing your own thing? That's what happens if you have to share anything you might call property with lots of other people

[short tulip]

Ironically, only mass air travel is more efficient in terms of mpg than motorcycles

[upbeat wigeon]

Except the danger they pose?

[paper jewel]

you realize that even driving a regular car is dangerous

Even walking.

[flint field]

Those electric scooters that appear randomly in cities should be outlawed

[upbeat wigeon]

I don't know, you just live near some bad people, I've literally never had those problems.

@paper jewel Yeah, I'm anticars as personal transport as well.

[woeful pagoda]

Meat tube in sky go BRRRRRRRRRR

[shell dome]

Yeah, breathing is dangerous too, we should stop doing that.

[short tulip]

Personal risk is a matter of freedom. Motorcycles are less likely to harm others than cars or busses. If you choose to risk your own life doing something you love, in my opinion you should be free to do so.

[gaunt terrace]

communal gardens tend to be pretty popular and people tend to be nice about it idk what you're talking about

[paper jewel]

The moment I saw the weakness of my flesh

[upbeat wigeon]

You can do an amount of risk, but I'm arguing motorcycles are risky enough that people shouldn't be allowed to ruin themselves.

[gaunt terrace]

woah

[upbeat wigeon]

: |

That's your big complaint? That's absurdly minor.

[short tulip]

I understand that point and i respectfully disagree. Its less risky than consuming alcoholl

[proud hornet]

People shouldnt be allowed...

[upbeat wigeon]

Alcohol consumption is also bad.

[gaunt terrace]

i dont think prohibiting stuff to people is the way idk

[proud hornet]

So- you want to take people's freedom. Understood 🫡

[paper jewel]

the UK thinks it is

[upbeat wigeon]

I want people to live good and healthy lives and to not have to worry about accidentally killing themselves because they didn't understand how dangerous something was.

[short tulip]

Do you think thats a matter of personal morals or a matter of legal regulation?

[paper jewel]

So, you want to control their lives.

[gaunt terrace]

you seem to be trying to push a couple of arbitrary moral values and enforce them into others. You can't just control the choices of people.

[upbeat wigeon]

Well, considering the amount of people who die from it, it's a moral obligation to do what you can to save those people from dying.

[proud hornet]

And you want to take away someone's choice in that matter

[paper jewel]

Freedom means people have the choice to freely do dumb stuff.
even if it kills them

[short tulip]

I say this without malice and with understanding.
Thats an unhealthy stance to have. It is judgemental of others and overly controling of personal liberties

[shell dome]

Legal, because drunk driving affects others.

[upbeat wigeon]

Only within certain limits. Like, only minor control on stuff that is really bad.

[short tulip]

Thats why drunk driving is illegal, silly

[proud hornet]

Im more likely to get stabbed by someone in public transport than I am to die on my motorcycle lmao

[upbeat wigeon]

That's not true. Show me stats.

[paper jewel]

it's almost like we have this already...

[gaunt terrace]

dude

[flint field]

brother is wilding

[pseudo plank]

I didnt wanna comment on this but you're taking their consent out of the question. If there are some who dont want to be saved, thats not on you to force it down their throats

[upbeat wigeon]

And that's why absolute freedom is bad.

[gaunt terrace]

this is not absolute freedom dude

[proud hornet]

...

[paper jewel]

absolute freedom is called anarchy, my friend

[shell dome]

So then why does it happen so often?

[upbeat wigeon]

Yes it is, we don't let people punch their own tickets. Euphemism

[proud hornet]

Nah this is crazy. Bro wants land of the controlled home of cowardly fr 😔

[upbeat wigeon]

I'm aware.

[paper jewel]

This isn't factual in the slightest

[flint field]

Because you can’t reasonably enforce it when and where the problem start

[paper jewel]

The common citizen has no obligations to stop someone.

Only trained professionals have a duty to do so

[short tulip]

If you're comfortable sharing, do you mind if i ask how old you are? Im curious because this can be a common mindset dor people under 25 who have not yet fully developed a theory of mind due to their frontal lobe still maturing

[gaunt terrace]

As an anarchist, it is not about absolute freedom either LMAO

[short tulip]

Brcause the law is poorly enforced

[upbeat wigeon]

18, so I will acknowledge that I am quite young.

[short tulip]

Doctors dont even save lives against the will of their patients.

[paper jewel]

Please define me what Anarchy is

[shell dome]

Exactly, thank you. People are the problem, everything being discussed here right now are moot points that's been discussed so many times. You have to have a law, and it has to be enforced to a certain degree.

[upbeat wigeon]

I mean, technically, I think it depends on the type of anarchist you are.

[dusk shale]

Ni dieu, ni maitre

[paper jewel]

To an extent, yes.
But once you go unconscious you can no longer make cognitive decisions.

[proud hornet]

Enforcing the law is great. Removing people's freedom not so much

[paper jewel]

So, you are a socialist?

[pseudo plank]

I've been surrounded by addicts my whole life, trust me sometimes there's just nothing you can do. People always find a way even if stuff is banned/illegal. Drugs still control a lot of people to this day even though they were widely made illegal almost worldwide

[upbeat wigeon]

Do you know the idea of:
Positive and negative freedoms?

[mighty urchin]

all this stuff is in the game?

[paper jewel]

you realize that phrase was in regards to religious authority, not governmental.

[upbeat wigeon]

That's because the only way to help those people is with public healthcare, and support sytems, not just by making them illegal.

[gaunt terrace]

The thing is. You cannot be absolutely free if you live with other people. You are always going to be having freedom removed from you whenever you interact with another human being, in a major or lesser extent

[shell dome]

Is enforcing the law great? Who makes the laws? People. What makes people make laws? Fear of safety? Selfishness?

[upbeat wigeon]

Yeah, I agree, otherwise a society could not function.

[dusk shale]

Both, do you know the commune ?

[paper jewel]

I don't bother with failed history, so no

[short tulip]

Its cool. Its a total rational world view to have at your age and its actually a sign of very strong empathy and compassion.
You make really strong points and you seem passionate on bettering your community. I would strongly suggest you try your best to keep an open mind while trying to see how you can best fit your philosphies in with the world views of others who may not agree with all of your points.
Its important to remember that life isnt about survival but about personal fulfillment. Always keep that in mind when considering how best to serve the greater good

[gaunt terrace]

Then if anarchy tries to create an anarchistic society, total freedom is impossible in anarchism

[pseudo plank]

But you cannot force them to become involved in any of those. People have to go willingly otherwise it's just not gonna work

[upbeat wigeon]

IIRC, there are actually ways you can force people to go to those. The downside is that people who aren't willing to get the help require and inordinately higher amount of effort to actually help than those that don't.

[short tulip]

Do not resuscitate orders exist. I knew a man who wore a DNR on a medical bracelet due to a heart condition he had that would likely leave him with brain damage after a stroke or heart attack

[paper jewel]

That's why people think therapy is a scam.
You have to be willing to be helped, for it to work.

[paper jewel]

oh, I know.

There's just a lot of loopholes doctors and whatnot can utilize to work around
trust me, I'm pro-death

[fickle osprey]

[upbeat wigeon]

Yeah. That's why people consider absolute anarchy, the one often conflated to be the only anarchical ideology, to be an absurd ideology, since it's self defeating.

[short tulip]

Thats mostly sensationalized. I have a lot of family in the medical industry and every doctor or nurse ive met treats DNR's and the consent of their patient very seriously. Even attempting to sidestep consent is grounds for your license to be revoked.

[gaunt terrace]

Doctors malpractice, i'd know

[paper jewel]

Aware.
I just know about it because I had to deal with it due to my grandfather's passing

[full tartan]

Where can i Check how the Young Ferans look Like if i Didnt Found a Feran Settlement Yet?

[pseudo plank]

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should, or that it would be any help in the slightest. You ever been forced to do something you don't wanna do? Imagine 10x that feeling with a barrel full of guilt, shame and withdrawals dumped on top. Most people I've know would rather give up on getting help/life itself because it's easier to deal with

[full tartan]

i want to see if they as cute as the Kweebec Seedlings

[gaunt terrace]

There's a picture in the feran page of the fandom wiki

Scroll down to the gallery and you'll find it

[full tartan]

Oh my Gooooood!! my heart melted ❤️

[upbeat wigeon]

I have been forced to do stuff I don't want to do before, and multiple times, I did appreciate being forced to do it in retrospect because it helped me. That's kinda my point, you shouldn't stigmatize, shame, or discriminate against those that need help, you should do what you can to get them help. If the only way to help them is making them go through the harder thing, then that's ultimately the right thing to do, because that person is worth helping.

[full tartan]

it Looks like a Fennec Fox Cub ❤️

[short tulip]

Switching from prison sentences for drug addicts to zero judgement treatment centers would be a huge help.
Most US rehab programs use the 12 step program which is just christianity in disguise. No slight against christianity, but a method steeped in personal guilt and sacrafice isnt helpful to a majority of users who are unable to seek out help themselves

[upbeat wigeon]

Big slight against Christianity, especially the American Christianity, it's poisoned so many American institutions and thought processes.

[honest hare]

Anyone else having trouble updating the game?

[short tulip]

Have you tried the manual update check? Have you verified you're on the right branch?

[upbeat wigeon]

Did you mess with any of the client files? That will prevent you from updating.

[honest hare]

No I haven't

[full tartan]

another Update for Hytale?

[honest hare]

No I haven't tried that

[pseudo plank]

The best example I've seen of this is from Switzerland. They didn't just arrest people for taking them, they opened clinics to support those struggling with addiction. The rest of the world could learn a thing or two from them

[short tulip]

Yee

[upbeat wigeon]

True, the nordic countries are a lot better at public services. Wait, Switzerland isn't nordic. 🤦‍♂️

[split agate]

Anything that absolves someone of accountability and responsibility for their own actions is a good thing these days right?

[upbeat wigeon]

Not if it's their own actions, but if it's something beyond them, like institutional or such, then yes. Even then, we should still help them.

[full tartan]

Was Hytale once again Updated?

[upbeat wigeon]

Yep.

[full tartan]

Today?

[upbeat wigeon]

As far as I can see, yes.

[full tartan]

i Havent Launched Hytale Today.

[gaunt terrace]

Pre release got updated today yes

[full tartan]

oh, i dont Play Pre-Releases i play Normal Version.

[pseudo plank]

They're just better in general, people there are just happier than the rest of us. I've been to a few countries around there on holiday, they just have respect for everything, themselves, where they live, others around them. I'd move to one of them if I could

[gaunt terrace]

Normal version got updated like 3 days ago i think

And there was a hotfix today

[full tartan]

Wasnt the Hotfix Yesterday?

[gaunt terrace]

Timezones i guess

[upbeat wigeon]

Sadly they do also have issues, much like the rest of Europe, xenophobia. Stupid Europe, being xenophobic. (And America at the moment as well.)

[short tulip]

That reads as through you feel someone is fully responsible for addiction. Do you feel that if someone makes a mistake that they should have to bear its consequences alone for perpetuity?
Also, have you ever experienced addiction and/or do you understand that it is a mind altering state where it can be impossible biologically to break the addiction?
Do you feel someone who is genetically predisposed towards addiction is underserving of assistance regardless of their circumstances?

[upbeat wigeon]

Wait, hold on, I didn't realize they were saying that in relation to addiction.

Their point is completely invalid then.

[full tartan]

No i got no Update Today.

[gaunt terrace]

Europe is incredibly racist

[upbeat wigeon]

Oh. I must have forgotten to update yesterday. Apologies for the leftist misinfo.

[short tulip]

They may not be, thats why im asking followup questions. I was unclear on their point myself

[full tartan]

i Live in Germany. So it Possibly is Timezones.

[upbeat wigeon]

Big sad. It hosed them over, and weakened their countries.

[gaunt terrace]

Oh then no i must have been confused

[pseudo plank]

I mean it's a core primal feeling, that's a hard one to beat, and not specific to any country. If you weren't wary of outsiders while we were evolving around the cavemen era, you'd be dead. It's a built in function

[upbeat wigeon]

I mean, I never had that issue, so... This seems like a European culture issue.

[full tartan]

i Feel Kinda Uncomfortable with that Discussion Right now, i just Joined the Hytale Discord and Play Hytale to Distract myself from Real Life Politics and etc, imma check later here again.

[upbeat wigeon]

Heck, even American isn't as racist as Europe. Mainly because we don't believe in ethnicity.

[river gull]

Did you know, if someone's acting inappropriately or breaking server rules you can report them by right-clicking a message and doing App => Hytale => Report , or by using the /report chat feature? It helps the staff keep the chat clean 🙂

[full tartan]

eh, i think its not a Reason to Report.

[river gull]

technically it is because talking politics is against the rules - but it's up to you.

[full tartan]

imma Check later here again

[proud hornet]

Better solution, change the topic by talking about AI 😉

Neway how's it going?

[upbeat wigeon]

It's not technically against the rules, they just said to be sensitive about it.

[pseudo plank]

Fair point, I got roped in because addiction was mentioned. Apologies for contributing to the uncomfortable feeling

[short tulip]

I snorted.

[river gull]

Claude-sonnet is moving along nicely making my mod 😛

[river gull]

Be mindful of potentially sensitive, controversial, or triggering topics
The mods reserve the right to intervene and shut down topics that become heated, or that we perceive as otherwise damaging to the community. (eg. politics, religion, trauma dumping, vents, etc)

[proud hornet]

A paid mod too I hope?

[full tartan]

[upbeat wigeon]

Yeah, that says they reserve to right to shut it down if it gets heated and such, not that it's outright banned.

[river gull]

Heck no. An open source mod, it's on github, I ain't making people pay for that.

[proud hornet]

😔it was part of the joke 💔

[upbeat wigeon]

Well, I do respect that. All else aside.

[burnt mortar]

Yes I was wondering why this conversation was occurring when this is a clear rule... I suppose it's worth taking to a group chat or something. 🤷‍♀️

[gaunt terrace]

That's not how this works

[full tartan]

i see #1466040976761028763 right now, do we get an actual Underworld?

besides the Lowest Level of the Caves that is Lava Level?

[proud hornet]

This all started cause of discussing if mods should have the choice of being paid. Too much ball knowledge required. Its chill though 🤣

[pseudo plank]

It's possible for world gen v2. Who knows what the devs have planned for that. It's gonna be so cool to see what they come up with either way

[full tartan]

So Hellevator just like in Terraria?

[flint field]

I imagine we will get a sort of underworld dimension or world once they expand past Orbis

[river gull]

I mean, personally I don't mind mods that are paid or servers that are paid. Considering hypixel literally has microtransactions it would be insanely hypocritical of them to block people from making money with hytale content.

[upbeat wigeon]

I personally hope they invent the flat plane except the giant mountains that pop up every 10 blocks and 2 blocks wide biome.

[burnt mortar]

Honestly I can see the biological reasoning. This is something that humans experience but it's just 90% implemented by social interaction / teaching from birth. That wariness is trimmed with neural pruning as we age to choose what we feel and how we feel about things.

[pseudo plank]

Honestly more viable in this game than Minecraft, just watch this game be something completely different by the time they come out of early access

Also to anyone who is replying to that message, I'm not gonna continue the conversation anymore to accommodate those who were feeling uncomfortable. No hard feelings, everyone has opinions :)

[burnt mortar]

That'd be so cool...

[upbeat wigeon]

Biggest issue would maybe be the height limit of 0-320.

[river gull]

like, if you go to the hypixel store and you have housing, ranks, gold, gems (betcha that's an ingame currency!) and boosters... yeah hytale better not mess with server owners wanting to monetise their time.

Anyone from hytale telling you it's not legal, ask them "hey, how did simon get rich again? asking for a friend"

[copper trench]

That's a moot point because they've said multiple times that they'll allow monetization on Hytale, though under different rules than Minecraft. Some things are less permissible, others are more

[pseudo plank]

Do you know if they are storing chunks like 16x16x320 or are they doing something more like 16x16x16? I wonder what limitations they've run into

[river gull]

sounds like that should include mods being behind a paywall then, imho ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[burnt mortar]

Would be quite nice to open up an entrepreneurial sector where people can sell their mods/scripts etc.

[flint field]

clearly the profits came from the adventure maps

[upbeat wigeon]

Uh... Let me open the source code, I think it was 16x16x320.

[little flint]

I dislike some of hypixels monetisation but if Hypixel can do it, then Hytale server owners better be able to. Fair is fair.

[burnt mortar]

Ohhh my god a moth just flew into my eye and wiggled in my eyelid I think I'm gonna puke 😭 what the heelllll....

[pseudo plank]

If they are, I imagine they're probably aiming to switch to something like 16x16x16 before release. Would probably make the height limit almost non existent

[copper trench]

Could be wrong, but they've never explicitly said anything against it. I do remember someone saying somewhere that they'll try to reward projects with fairer monetization than others (although they won't try to prevent P2W). The only things that are a hard no regarding monetizationare gambling for IRL money and cryptocurrency promotion (but not using them as a payment method I think?), and very few types of mods that aren't allowed even free

[upbeat wigeon]

FOUND IT!

The chunks are stored in a 2D grid, but I don't see a set height for them.

[pseudo plank]

Surely it's the whole chunk then. Kinda impressive frames for something like that. Just imagine the world gen you could achieve with no height limit

[river gull]

Yeah you're right, I didn't really do much research into it, it would be my opinion regardless of what's actually been said, to be honest.

[upbeat wigeon]

Umm... There might be a chance that it's possible to change the world height currently.

[little flint]

Is V2 stored in a 2D grid or do they go 3D for that?

[upbeat wigeon]

V2 is a world generator, that's unrelated from how they store chunks, the two systems are seperate.

Ok found it, they store each chunk as block sections. Which there seem to be 32 of, with each being 10 blocks.

[little flint]

Wasn't aware that they were separated but it makes sense.

[pseudo plank]

3D grid store seems unnecessary. 2D is enough for chunks of any size

[upbeat wigeon]

Wait, nevermind, I misread the code they use for loading the area.

Ok, by default there are 10 chunk sections, but it looks possible that it might be able to handle it if you increased the number of sections through some means.

Ok, no, right now the number 320 is hardcoded in some places.

From BlockChunk.java:

public boolean setBlock(int x, int y, int z, int blockId, int rotation, int filler) {
   if (y >= 0 && y < 320) {
      int sectionIndex = ChunkUtil.indexSection(y);
      BlockSection section = this.chunkSections[sectionIndex];
      boolean changed = section.set(x, y, z, blockId, rotation, filler);
      if (changed) {
         this.invalidateChunkSection(sectionIndex);
         this.markNeedsSaving();
      }

      return changed;
   } else {
      throw new IllegalArgumentException(String.format("Failed to set block at %d, %d, %d to %d because it is outside the world bounds", x, y, z, blockId));
   }
}

public boolean isTicking(int x, int y, int z) {
   return y >= 0 && y < 320 ? this.getSectionAtBlockY(y).isTicking(x, y, z) : false;
}

[vagrant bramble]

But you can still (in V2) fill different layers with different biomes/blocks/generation seperately, just watch out for tint, as it works in 2D

[upbeat wigeon]

Tint actually does have a 3D component I think.

[faint raft]

Hey guys, which channel would be best for me to ask about the AssetEditor? New to the verified side of the server lol

[upbeat wigeon]

Well, maybe not during worldgen, I might be wrong about that.

[upbeat wigeon]

This one basically.

[upbeat wigeon]

Oh, it's weirder than that, it looks like tint is per chunk?

[faint raft]

Thanks!!

[vagrant bramble]

yes and no.. it (tint) can be angled as you can have per-block tint, it bleeds into other blocks a little though. I bet it was meanth for water, grass and leaves tint for biome-specific places as well as to add variations by applying tint using noise maps (like smooth patches of darker grass, while not changing blocks/textures)

[upbeat wigeon]

Hmm, weird.

[hexed basin]

I think that issue will be solved through finding recipes instead of finding seeds

[full tartan]

Guys, what is the Point of Moss?

when you Get it for Mining Blocks

[upbeat wigeon]

It's a Deltarune reference obviously.

[full tartan]

cuz i Mined Blocks and got A Handful of Moss and idk what the use of it is since Grass Blocks are made with Plant Fiber and Any Soil.

[pseudo plank]

Mainly just decoration and some crafting in the farming bench. I've got chests full of the stuff, never really use it though

[full tartan]

so i can Throw them away?

[upbeat wigeon]

That or make yourself a mod to add a use to them.

[full tartan]

i cant Code Mods.

[upbeat wigeon]

Asset Editor doesn't need code.

[hollow bane]

Who cares about the rules, if someone openly expresses their discomfort that should tell you enough no?

Oh damn, necro'd the hell out of it lmfao

Thaaaanks Discord

[upbeat wigeon]

One of my flaws is that I have an inordinately hard time letting a conversation end when I still have something to say. I still have nagging thoughts from conversations that were over a decade ago.

[shrewd patrol]

we NEED an "enable all mods" button. like damn its annoying when you have loads and manually need to click them all

[full tartan]

i dont have the issue, i dont have that much mods unlike in Minecraft.

[teal forge]

Dropping essences of life instead of seeds is like a quality of life feature but in reverse

[upbeat wigeon]

Fake Hytale player.

[full tartan]

i Only add Mods if i reached the Limit of the Vanilla Stuff

and Add Mods if i cant Wait until the Feature is Implementated, Such as Cats.

[upbeat wigeon]

: |

Ew.

Disgusting.

Evil.

[little flint]

?

[hexed basin]

Not exactly, if in the future you can unlock new recipes when finding new crops in new zones/biomes, then you can go home and use the life essence to craft those new seeds instead of being locked to your crops only dropping the same seeds. It provides flexibility

[full tartan]

tbf, my PC is Fairly Outdated anyway.

Its a Frankenstein PC, Some Modern and Old Components.

[teal forge]

I would just rather seeds dropped for ease of replanting then you can convert those seeds to essences or directly to other seeds

[pseudo plank]

If you want some pet cats there are a few pet mods on CurseForge (including mine :) )

[full tartan]

i got like 2 Cat Pet Mods.

Alec's Cats and Kaworru's Cats Mod

They also got Dogs Companions Mod.

[upbeat wigeon]

: |

Poor Kami.

[full tartan]

i didnt even knew they have a Cat Mod.

@pseudo plank Hows the Cat mod Called?

[pseudo plank]

Kami's Pets :) There's about 20-25 pets that you can get currently

Maybe closer to 30 since the last update

[full tartan]

but will it Conflict with the Other Cats Mod?

[pseudo plank]

Let me check quickly, I havent made this mod conflict friendly yet

[full tartan]

since i got the "Cats" mod.

and "Alec's Cats!"

[upbeat wigeon]

How could you Kami?

[pseudo plank]

It doesnt look like they will conflict at all. All the file names are different to mine

[full tartan]

This is what the Cats Mod has. "Manual Spawning: Use /npc spawn Cats_<Breed> (e.g., /npc spawn Cats_Black, /npc spawn Cats_Siamese)"

and Alec's Cats! has "/npc spawn cat"

[upbeat wigeon]

Pft.
/npc spawn is vanilla.

[full tartan]

so the only custom is the "Cats_<Breed>"?

[upbeat wigeon]

👍 That's the modded NPC role.

[pseudo plank]

Mine uses crafting with a custom workbench. I believe it's 5 life essence and an egg per pet. They all work kinda like minecrafts cats/dogs too, and some (the ones marked protective) will fight for you

[full tartan]

so they dont conflict?

[pseudo plank]

Not at all as far as I can tell

[full tartan]

alright let me get it.

added

[pseudo plank]

Let me know what you think :)

[full tartan]

will do if i Play Hytale.

[shell dome]

Makes me wonder if there's a Tabula Rasa mod yet. A workbench to dump your workbench related stuff into when reliance on another mod's workbench isn't there. (Presuming you can even have fallbacks)

[dense yew]

is there a way to mirror the way your hair is in avatar? (and ig other cosmetics too)

[upbeat wigeon]

Man, Kami gets all their downloads through evil advertising.

And also their mod concepts have broader appeal I guess.

[pseudo plank]

Evil? How so?

[full tartan]

i Just got it cuz i want Pets.

[upbeat wigeon]

Shrimple, because I declare it so.

[vivid creek]

I need to stop adding food mods, I have so many but I love all the different foods.

[upbeat wigeon]

Sigh... See, broad appeal.

[full tartan]

i just use SNIP3's Food.

[pseudo plank]

Ahaha they are named kinda generic too since most people search for generic terms. Pets, Magic, Ore, etc. Also rapid updates mean more downloads so they show up higher on the list

[upbeat wigeon]

: |

I'm too busy with my college for rapid updates. Sadness

[vivid creek]

that is a good food selection mod yes

[upbeat wigeon]

Also I have to compose music tracks for my biomes, and make the custom models, and the textures, and the code, and the assets. All by my lonesome.

[full tartan]

i Like the Music in the Trork Structures.

[upbeat wigeon]

The volume mixing is so bad on my computer that I can't hear the music half the time...

[full tartan]

Action Like

[pseudo plank]

You search for any of those terms and my mods are usually in the first two pages if searching via relevance.

Yeah tbf you have a lot more to do, I'm relying on base assets most of the time. The only reason I'm slowing down on mod updates is because I'm actually putting in the extra work for this next mod

[upbeat wigeon]

True, plus, I have to write all the lore stuff, since mine is a content mod. So far one person has said it was: "spooky rocks" (T~T). One person said it was clear I spent a lot of time on it and called it very good literature deserving more than just a Hytale mod ٩(^ᗜ^ )و. Then another person didn't notice any of the cool literature stuff I did (T~T).

So, hit or miss results.

[full tartan]

i Constantly Change my Hytale Avatar, i just cant Decide which one to Keep.

[dense yew]

is there a way to mirror the way your hair is in avatar? (and ig other cosmetics too)

[full tartan]

Right now i got a Cat-Like Person with Cat Beanie, Glasses and Cat Eyes.

[short tulip]

My hytale avatar looks like he sings baritone in a dwarf themed power metal band

[full tartan]

My First Avatar was a Female Bandit.

With Skull Shirt, Skull Bandana, and mostly dark outfit. and Dark Emo-Like hair.

[pseudo plank]

The dream fr

[short tulip]

We need a proportion slider

[pseudo plank]

Imma definitely try out your mods later when I have the time, cant wait to see what you've made

[upbeat wigeon]

Ergh, I probably should get out an update to make the progression clearer then.

[full tartan]

i Also used the Daggers as Main Weapon with the Bandit Avatar. Ironic.

[forest blaze]

Am I weird for wanting ars noveau in Hytale

[upbeat wigeon]

Naha, Ars Nouveau is an amazing mod, something like it in hytale would be good.

[forest blaze]

I freaking love magic, I’d love to either see something like iron spells or ars in Hytale

[full tartan]

i am not Really a Magic Person

[upbeat wigeon]

I'd personally lean more towards something like Mana & Artifice.

[full tartan]

i Didnt even Played Mage in Terraria, only Melee and Ranged. A Hybrid between Both.

[upbeat wigeon]

: |

[winter cipher]

Hey yall, is there any way to know when planting a sapling, what size of the tree Ill be getting?

[upbeat wigeon]

Uh, you can read the description for how many stages it has.

[severe rock]

They grow the longer they're in the ground

[full tartan]

Stage 5 must be the Final Stage of Beech

[upbeat wigeon]

Yes, 5 stages, 2 days.

[full tartan]

idk about the Other Saplings, i didnt came that far. I Mostly just reached Beech and Birch

[winter cipher]

Oh, but I mean like, trunk size. How many blocks wide it will be. I want to plant one for decoration, but I dont want it to be too big

[full tartan]

Cuz i dont Really do Farming, i mostly do Exploration and Fighting in Hytale.

[upbeat wigeon]

Oh, you'll have to test that in a creative world.

[severe rock]

Iron spells?

[upbeat wigeon]

More of an RPG magic mod. Doesn't really have spell crafting like M&A or Ars Nouveau.

[faint raft]

I have this item in the works.
While wielding (block interaction), it forks with Ability1, Ability2 and Ability3, each giving a different custom EntityStatType to a maximum of one (of each), which the Primary uses as logic to discern which attack to use

So i need the "wielding" to last after pressing ability1, 2 and 3 (which by default cancel it) and i need for the stats to last after releasing the "wielding", but to reset if i start "wielding again", as i would be starting a new sequence

So, is there a reliable way to onow when the stat was given and when it is being taken away? The "effect" option is not giving me good results

[full tartan]

the Main Zones i were in are: Desert and Emerald Grove.

[upbeat wigeon]

The forking continuing thing is a flag IIRC.

[full tartan]

Just a Little Bit in Zone 3 and Never been in Zone 4

[forest blaze]

Or maybe just a magic system like terraria, not gonna lie, dropping a cool rare magic weapon and shooting it just to be like “oh dang this is cool” is very fun tbh

I just looovveee magic, especially the build crafting behind it

[full tartan]

My First Experience in Zone 3: I Instantly Faced Outlanders at a Mine and got Thrown into the Mine and Died from Fall Damage.

[upbeat wigeon]

I've always been more of a: Create it modular person. Probably why I mod every game I play.

[upbeat wigeon]

( ! _ ! ) Ouch.

[full tartan]

i Never seen the Items i lost ever Again when i died.

[forest blaze]

Oof that’s a yikes moment

[upbeat wigeon]

Yeah, disable item drop, it's bugged where you lose any items that aren't loaded when you respawn.

[forest blaze]

Also to talk about the positives since I’m playing blind, bro roofing is super awesome and easy, and looks VERY good

[full tartan]

wdym? i lost it from my Inventory.

[upbeat wigeon]

Those items were dropped in the world, and then instantly despawned since it went out of the loading range.

[full tartan]

oh..

but Nothing Much out of Importantce i Lost.

Only some Food and blocks and items. thats it.

[grand shale]

Did you guys tried any other leveling modes besides rpg leveling? Is there better rpg mod?

[upbeat wigeon]

It's all fun and games until you lose resources from the bug.

[full tartan]

Luckily i didnt had Ores with me.

Before i could get Ores out of the Mine i already Died due the Fall Damage.

[upbeat wigeon]

I'm just warning you, you really want to turn off death drops.

[full tartan]

No Worry, i will make sure i dont die.

[faint raft]

Sorry what do you mean?

[full tartan]

i Survived Alot of Days without Dying until that with the Outlanders happened.

[upbeat wigeon]

There's a single thing that tells the wielding interaction whether it's canceled by forks.

[upbeat wigeon]

: |

[vivid creek]

I don't know if it is exactly what you are looking for because it's not a general character level, but I enjoy MMO Skill Tree

[winter cipher]

How high can animals jump? How tall do I need to make a fence to keep them in?

[full tartan]

from what i saw Chickens can Jump over the Fence when the Fence is at a Wall Corner.

Thats why i Put Slabs on the Fences then to make them not Jump out.

[winter cipher]

Hmmm. Thats unfortunate

[faint raft]

Ooohh got it, will try to find it when i get home

And about the stats? Any way for me to "debug" them?

Cause they're technically invisible. They will have a particle of their own, but not a meter or UI (for now), but at least while testing i need a reliable way to know if and when they're there, and right now i have none. Particles are not reliable, at least as far as i tested them

[upbeat wigeon]

Ugh... Hmm... Honestly, not really off of the top of my head? I know the game has the things called modifier and such, but I'd personally try and implement stuff like that with code.

[faint raft]

Fair enough. I'm trying to make this one exclusively through the asset editor, first to know the limits of it, second and most important, as it is a magic system, i kinda want it to be made of assets already ingame as a way of saying "the magic was here all along"

More of a concept challenge than anything

But thanks for all the help!!

[upbeat wigeon]

Ok, fair enough.

I hope it goes well.

[sand bison]

is there a way to show what enviroment you are in that is not the f7 full menu?

[pseudo plank]

I dont think theres another way unfortunately

[pseudo plank]

If you mean entity effects, you can set the icon as an empty string, it'll show as an unassigned icon where the effects show

[faint raft]

I dont think it is, it has an interaction that adds a stat but the stat is not innate to to the item, so it shouldn't appear in the item's description i think

[upbeat wigeon]

Uh...

Wait, hold on, you do know that stats can't exist without having a max value set, right?

[pseudo plank]

Ohhh I see, the only way I've found to see them is /player stats get statname

[near axle]

Is anyone else experiencing bugs with animal taming? I captured and tamed two chickens, but one of them reverted to non-tamed a while later

[gaunt terrace]

Wouldn't be surprised

[little flint]

let me guess, you have a coop too? cause I've noticed twice that when chickens leave a coop, they can for some reason become untamed. Not sure if it's exactly that given how there's chunk unloading and what not at the same time but... that was my guess.

[near axle]

yeah, I got a coop

I found that at first one of the chickens found itself outside of my enclosure after leaving the coop, so I changed that (in a pretty ugly way)

but yeah one of them untamed. prolly chunk unloading, but the other one is fine

[little flint]

is the other one a chick or are they both adult chickens? It was only the adults that became untamed for me, while the babies just stopped responding to the coop being their home.

[near axle]

they're both adults

[little flint]

🤷🏼‍♂️ no clue why only one and not the other then, but it is buggy - I didn't bother taming mine again and have had no issues with eggs. Hopefully we get some fixes soon though.

if you leave 3+ blocks on all sides of the coop, they shouldn't be able to escape. They just spawn on top of the coop and ... walk off.

[upbeat wigeon]

I had a dumb idea, the perfect thing to add to my mod:

Nuclear Chemistry & Nuclear Physics

[red peak]

you know when they say start small... haha

[pseudo plank]

Sounding like a new game dev wanting to make an mmo ahaha

[upbeat wigeon]

TRUE!

Granted, it does help that the intro level Nuclear chemistry stuff is dead simple.

[upbeat wigeon]

Nah, I've got over a decade's worth of programming experience. (About 4-6 years of it is decent experience.)

I started young.

[pseudo plank]

Was just a joke following what Nathaniel said

[upbeat wigeon]

: |

I dumb.

[winter cipher]

Where do I find deadwood?

[upbeat wigeon]

Uh... I've found it before, Zone 4 I think.

[winter cipher]

What is zone 4?

[upbeat wigeon]

The lava islands.

[winter cipher]

Oh. Danger. Damn, lol

[upbeat wigeon]

Yeah. Danger.

[red peak]

to be fair, if I had team of people, graphics designer, modeller and a builder + me a programmer.

I'd build POE in hytale from today. not even a joke

[upbeat wigeon]

Skill issue, I aspire big even as a one man team.

[winter cipher]

I just want it for roof for my stable :-:

[red peak]

projects are always more fun in teams

[upbeat wigeon]

Oh... My sympathies. WAIT! You might be able to find it in the underground desert.

[upbeat wigeon]

See... I've only ever been on team projects where I'm the most competent programmer, so I end up doing most stuff anyways.

(T_T)

[red peak]

but you know what they say "Jack of all trades, master of none but oftentimes better than a master of one"

[upbeat wigeon]

I am that Jack, unironically, name a creative endeavor, and I've probably got a foot in it.

[winter cipher]

I live close to the desert. And close to the lava islands. But the desert is more doable for my level for now

[gaunt terrace]

You should add particle physics and thermodinamics

[pseudo plank]

Yoooo that would be awesome! I was actually thinking yesterday how GW2 would look in Hytale, could be real cool either way

[upbeat wigeon]

Thermodynamics is annoying though.

Particle physics I do know up to Physics 2 Kirchovs law about though. I could always bring out my foundational textbook book on nuclear particle physics though. (Unironically the coolest book I own.)

[gaunt terrace]

Im pretty sure if you added actual thermodynamics to a game it would just not run

[upbeat wigeon]

As my physics professor says: Everyone who works with thermodynamics ends up dead.

[gaunt terrace]

So true

[red peak]

That's fine. I've been delt worse hands before.

[upbeat wigeon]

The chemistry professor loved talking about how fluorine chemists blow themselves up a lot.

[red peak]

tbh, 95% mods survived last 3 updates. it's just mass panick made people harass abunch of modders for no reason.

the only mod I know that actually quit/paused because of breaking changes is Endgame QOL and that's because they have a super niche issue with instances

[gaunt terrace]

Thats funny theres a lot of beef in physics and chemistry

[upbeat wigeon]

I assume so. I know more about electrical engineers and physicists both hating how the other does questions about electricity.

[gaunt terrace]

There's also apparently a lot of discussions about notation

[upbeat wigeon]

That, is true.

I think there's also beef over what units to use, because all the engineers I've met use US Customary for some reason.

[red peak]

to be clear, I'm not building anything of that scale rn, I don't have the team i would want to build something like that and i have no ambition to do on my own.

however, you don't do something because it's easy, you do it because it's hard. it's about the journey my friend.

[gaunt terrace]

Oh one of my partners had a professor that was into string theory last year. Bro said our world has 10 dimensions.

[red peak]

you bet your ass, when the noesisengine get integrated into the modding api, I'm making a POE like mmo mod tho

it's atleast one step right in the direction of a full POE / diablo experience

[upbeat wigeon]

I think they're talking about dimensions including non locational.

[near axle]

I placed the coop outside of an existing enclosure and removed some barrier... I surrounded it with cobble blocks since, to hopefully prevent escaping again

I really ought to make a proper farm area, though

[gaunt terrace]

Yeah i did not get exactly what that was about idk

But i think 7 non locational dimensions is still kinda crazy

You'd guess it's 4, including time, but strings theory :shrug

Today

It already happened

[rotund flame]

Hello, I'm getting "error applying update". I have searched this Discord for help and I did all the things. I uninstalled Hytale, I made sure there were no files at all on my PC, I restarted my PC I tried to reinstall. The launcher installs, but won't install the game. Any know what else I can do?

[gaunt terrace]

Twitter funnily enough

[flint field]

seems to be a common issue, probably Hytale’s download servers are having issues

[red peak]

#patch-notes message still links to twitter but might save you time

[rotund flame]

Ah ok. I'll keep trying periodically then.

[red peak]

man i wouldn't wanna be on call at hypixel studio, on friday non the less

[floral viper]

real

gotta respect them

[unkempt trout]

"Hello,

We can not offer support or assistance using or trying to create alternative means other than the official Flatpak for running and updating the Hytale Launcher. We also do not support or allow repacking and redistributing our software.

Meghan,
Hytale Support Team"
Oh my God brah

[rotund glade]

What's wrong with that

[craggy seal]

Flatpak huh?

[gaunt terrace]

Flatpak bad

[unkempt trout]

We can't package Hytale for distros in official package repos.

Like for example that means Arch can't have Hytale in their cache, or NixOS(Which is what I use) have it in their package repository, which is ridiculous and more restrictive than Microsoft/Minecraft lmfao

[flint field]

W Hytale

[unkempt trout]

Like Microsoft allows maintainers to package the launcher for their respective distros but not Hytale for some reason lmfao

[gaunt terrace]

Software on linux!!

look inside
flatpaked

[sand bison]

are there any doungen at the botom of frost land caves, i always run into water at the bottom

[red peak]

those are unrelated technologies to be fair. they may serve related functions to the user, but one is much easier to work on than the other.

[gaunt terrace]

Me neither ngl im with you here

[red peak]

there working on the harder stuff first. it makes sense to me atleast haha

[opaque crow]

Weathering the storm in here

[rotund glade]

The minigames are GunPvP and Space Swarm, that's the 2 hytale mini-games

[red peak]

then don't use proximity chat, but it has legit been one of the most requested features day 1

(just like how i won't use chat filtering)

[grand shale]

It says failed to load custom ui documents, what should I do?

[vocal venture]

So it's real, Hytale is officially going to have proximity voice chat?!

[unkempt trout]

Also this makes the game kind of unrunnable in more unique distros like NixOS

[gaunt terrace]

Wuthering the heights

[thorny acorn]

Chat filtering restrict communication purposelessly (unless on servers, which should be done by the server host then), voice chat allows more and better communication.

[red peak]

Yessir, they been hinting at it coming since week 1

[gaunt terrace]

Hey cool sona

[opal spoke]

Yes and I hope we get it soon!!

[red peak]

yeah it's totally fair. chat filtering i can see being implemented to a certain extent.

but anti griefing you'll unlikely get in the base game, atleast I don't see it coming.

[rotund glade]

A must? Play singleplayer if you hate it not being there, unless you're worried about bullying yourself.

[vocal venture]

This is going to be amazing! Sometimes I prefer not to use Discord to talk to friends by voice, because it ends up consuming a lot of memory unnecessarily and can interfere with the game... causing freezes or stuttering...

[thorny acorn]

No, it's not, you sound like the people that make roblox. That's what moderators are for, if it's server-side, it should be done by the server host and mod team, it's not the game devs' task.

[quartz burrow]

The only reason i could ever think of where you need a chat filter is in a multiplayer experience where you have to be with others - a group of friends or literally by yourself the only people ripping stuff you don't like being said is either your inner demons or people you could ask nicely to keep it PG

[short tulip]

I feel like making the game takes priority over doing a server mod's work for them

[rotund glade]

Well, mod it in, suggest the feature, something besides what looks like complaining to people that don't develop the game.

[full tartan]

What does Hytale use? OpenGL or Vulkan?

[red peak]

OpenGL

[calm spoke]

What I think Hytale needs to do is provide the tools to make basic chat moderation such as being able to set banned words and spam limits, and then the more complicated stuff can be built upon using plugins

[gaunt terrace]

i mean the people that make roblox allow child gambling

[full tartan]

i Hope it Stays OpenGL since Minecraft want to Update it to Vulkan making Hybrid PC's that are a Mix of Modern and Old Components not able to Play Minecraft anymore.

[thorny acorn]

Server moderators and server hosts should either implement it for their own server or moderate the chat, but the purpose of the game devs is to make the game itself, not moderate it or restrict communication.

[short tulip]

Sure. Eventually. Until the game is actually at or near full release i dont think hypixel has any moral obligation to moderate servers they dont even run

[thorny acorn]

I will not get into that topic, as that kind of rant doesn't belong here.

[full tartan]

Can i Rant about Minecraft Changing to Vulkan tho?

[short tulip]

Like. If there was some kind of actual lobby system and hypixel was hosting mp servers and the community was all meant to play together, id think hypixel would be responsible for moderation.
But thats not where we're at

[calm spoke]

I ain't asking them to moderate it themselves, I'm just asking them to add the commands to do the basic stuff

[vocal venture]

I keep thinking about those who have computers that don't support Vulkan, man, that's sad.

[full tartan]

i got a Hybrid PC a Mix of Abit Modern Components and Old Components.

[red peak]

It's double edged sword. eventially modern computers won't support legacy opengl.

so if you stay with opengl for next 3-5 years, you'll lose compatability with new hardware.

if you move away from opengl you'll loose compatablity from old hardward.

there's no winning side here, just picking a certain evil

[supple furnace]

The change is really great; such old components wouldn't be able to play the latest versions anyway.

[short tulip]

Again. Once the game is near feature complete, sure. Until then, gameplay takes priority. Anyone willing to run a server should be willing to moderate it

[vocal venture]

I'm curious, how does that work?!

[full tartan]

Hell my Graphic Card is a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650 from 2012 and i got a AMD FX-6300 Processor.

[upbeat wigeon]

As someone who has programmed some with Vulkan, it's more fun to use than OpenGL, and gives many headaches.

[full tartan]

my PC is a Frankenstein PC

[supple furnace]

Lol bro

[rotund glade]

That's a terrible GPU

[full tartan]

i am too Broke for a entire new PC.

[red peak]

are you the person everyone was flaming on twitter, I'm curious?

[thorny acorn]

If that were the case, yes, because then Hypixel Studios would be the server's host.

[vocal venture]

But Vulkan can be further optimized for gaming, right?

[full tartan]

i never really used Twitter at all.

[calm spoke]

insert the absurd price rises for PC parts...

[rotund glade]

Yea but my processor gets more frames than that thing, with it's onboard graphics

[supple furnace]

Yep, much better than openGL

[red peak]

gotcha, I saw someone who has similar opinion and twitter did not lovvee thatt haha. it went viral of everyone flaming the guy, i felt bad.

[thorny acorn]

Literally how minecraft worked, before microsoft got delusional with it, it worked very well.

[full tartan]

Anyway, i kinda find it Sad that Minecraft does that and dosnt really care much about the Community.

[supple furnace]

I really think it depends more on multiplayer servers than on mods.

[thorny acorn]

With the new chat control and banning servers for being actually fun, they ruined it.

[vocal venture]

oh that guy must be unlucky sadly...

[red peak]

have you ever heard of skyrim or fall out, massive games that are alive today because of modding

[rotund glade]

Hytale is Early Access, remember that, it's so far from done, you wont need thousands of mods to have fun by the time it gets to full release, in a long time from now

[full tartan]

According to my Researches, (Actually i just used Google AI but dont tell it anyone) my PC Should be Able to Run Vulkan without Vibrant Visuals.

[supple furnace]

Terraria 🗣️

[red peak]

are you not enjoying hytale currently?

[calm spoke]

I enjoy Hytale without mods.

[thorny acorn]

Minecraft, Call of Duty, Battlefield, War Thunder, Wargaming's games, Helldivers 2, Deep Rock Galactic, etc. All rely on moderation teams.

[full tartan]

i dont have alot Mods either and Enjoy Hytale. I Enjoy Minecraft Unmodded Even Less than Hytale.

[whole wind]

I enjoy Hytale both ways. I have worlds with mods, and worlds pure vanilla.

[red peak]

I'm not asking for a review, I'm asking if your enjoying the game haha.

like your feelings bruh

[short tulip]

Fallout vega crash to desktop

Fallout new v crash to desktop
New vegas when
falls through the world
Fallout new vegas when it released

[full tartan]

The Cyberpunk 2077 Dilemma.

[vocal venture]

mine too, i don't see necessity to run games with beauty graphics

[supple furnace]

although it's quite polished currently

[calm spoke]

Skyrim and Fallout don't count for that argument, they're old as hell, of course they'd be modded to refresh the experiences

[red peak]

but they are good games vanilla no?

[rotund glade]

It will get a lot more development than 2 more years, people should Chill, Cyberpunk 2077 was a full-release game that wasn't even done, this isn't even near full-release yet

[thorny acorn]

The server's moderation team is responsible for enforcement of the server's rules. Hytale is a hybrid of multiplayer and singleplayer, no point in adding chat control like Mojang had to, because of Microsoft.

[full tartan]

Since we Talk about Games, its Bad like Very Bad that EA Drew a Line with Battlefront 2 and you have to Rely on Mods now.

[supple furnace]

The sims 🗣️

[vocal venture]

Could creating custom avatars for Hytale become even easier in the future?

[full tartan]

i Can Atleast Run Modded Battlefront 2 from 2017 but i think about the others that cant, poor them.

[calm spoke]

They are good games as vanilla! Actual hours of content to discover, despite their bugs

[red peak]

then they count!

[vivid creek]

Hi all! im really bad at building im saerching for builders that wanna help ? please help me out

[short tulip]

I bought 2077 around christmas. Played through the garbage tutorial. Installed that mod that lets you move at high-speed. I used it to run over a ledge to get into melee.
Jumping the ledge was thr only way to progress down a linear cooridor.
The game bugged because fall damage is velocity based and my ability wore off before touching the ground, the game counted me as having fallen way further than i did and i died from fall damage at max health in a tutorial area.
I immediately uninstalled

[pseudo plank]

It's EA, they make only bad decisions regardless of game

[full tartan]

I am not the greatest either, sorry.

[vivid creek]

I enjoy Hytale as is so far but I also enjoy adding mods as well. I play with friends who "only play vanilla" but also friends "only play with max 10 mods" and then the one friend who's game is "Why does your server have 200 mods do you really need that many?" and still enjoy myself with all 3 types of playstyles

[full tartan]

Ouch.

[short tulip]

To clarify, the in game ability not a game mod.

[rotund glade]

max of 10 or minimum of 10 meaning 10+

[full tartan]

i know a Another Game that Heavily Relies on Mod Support.

Star Wars Empire at War Forces of Corruption.

[vivid creek]

they don't like going over 10 mods if they can help it

[red peak]

I think realistically, they'll have to implement a basic form of chat filteriing in the game.

because of laws with hosting an multiplayer experience, right now they are not hosting any multiplayer experience through their servers. but when they implement minigames they will be.

it'll be basically the same as when minecraft bedrock decided to host realms (I know it's that little stretched but country laws apply the same)

[vivid creek]

i think you are better than me .. its really hard to find people that wanna helpout with my 2 servers .. builders play most of time solo.

[rotund glade]

I don't need someone else to decide what's safe for me, if you wanna cry because someone calls you names maybe you shouldn't be playing online, I can keep myself safe

[full tartan]

i Mean, if you seen my Blacksmith https://discord.com/channels/523059903812599811/1473736211683344414 you see i am Not great either.

[quaint vine]

why is the backpack separated in the UI is there any benefit to it?

[thorny acorn]

No, they made it to have control over the players and be able to dictate.

Game devs are responsible for making the game.
Server moderation teams are responsible for making their server safe and enforcing the server's rules.
And parents are responsible for raising their kids to actually think before they talk.

I can't tell if you're delusional or a ragebaiter.

[red peak]

actually you have to by law. so if your incapable. then you probs shouldn't have your server open to country that force you too

can't expect game companies be liable for what happens on your server

[short tulip]

If the server owner isnt morally obligated to moderate their server why should we hold someone unaffiliated with the server to a higher level of responsibility?

[full tartan]

my Blacksmith is very Bad.

[thorny acorn]

They could just offer tools for that, so server hosts can set up that for their own server based on their need.

[full tartan]

and My Buildings are all just Raw, no Decoration or Asthetic.

[red peak]

Yea, it's possible but in around about way that's the same as implementing into the game.

they'd still have to do client code to make the server tools work

game net code is the still game code

[thorny acorn]

Yes, but it wouldn't restrict private servers only made for a small group of people, like the player's friends.

[short tulip]

Start by finding a floor plan of a real building and layout that plan with a single layer of blocks. Then use pictures of the building as reference and just make something that looks similar.

Start with simple shapes, like making the walls as flat blocks and the building as a basic rectangle or two.

Add details to create depth and contours that match your reference.

All art is secretly just a bunch of circles and/or squares stacked on top of each other

[red peak]

when you hear chat filtering, I think your thinking of like ID verification to turn it off and stuff.

those are not directly related, most games just have a swear filter haha that you can toggle on the client

[silk patio]

at the moment I don't think so
it feels like it's built in to be expanded on in later updates

[rotund glade]

Also the fact that I'm an adult I don't need someone filtering out my messages, and I can keep myself safe, oh yes what about the kids, their parents should actually care to know what their child is doing and teaching them about online safety and using parental controls to keep their own children safe, the government or all these apps and games shouldn't need to be you're freaking parent because your parent is too useless to care

[crude condor]

^

[upbeat wigeon]

Well, it's not just the parent's job to raise children. That also falls on society.

[short tulip]

To be fair, "parental controls" would beed to be developed and implented by hypixel. Expecting every parent of every child that buys hytale to be a mod developer is absurd

[thorny acorn]

Not really, ID verification is a whole different thing. I'm just against them implementing chat filter similar to minecraft or roblox, those 2 kinds actually suck.

[red peak]

again, we can have chat filtering that isn't invasive, we have done it for like two decaded now.

[vivid creek]

looks good its not bad !!!

[crude condor]

We have gotten to a point where parents just give their children phones or computers and let the internet "parent" them

[short tulip]

I dont think anyone is opposed to toggleable chat filters. I think people are opposed to a tiny dev team devoting resources to it right now when the game is in such an early start

[red peak]

I've never played minecraft or roblox, so not sure what they are like