dnd-discussion

[tawdry sentinel]

Is it not 12-20?

[zealous kettle]

My most lore-filled character was actually an adventure league character
She was a Wizard, and climbed from level 1 in tier 1 all the way to level 17 in tier 4, without ever dropping to zero hitpoints across well over a hundred oneshots

[lime bramble]

Apparently 10-20?

[marble mantle]

I'm dming a CoS run rn and im having trouble deciding between reloaded and RAW

10-20????

how does that work

[zealous kettle]

Ran into some logistical issues on paper
Like the default spell sheet ran out of spaces

[lime bramble]

Idk lol

[tawdry sentinel]

Eve of Ruin is like a greatest hits module where you go everywhere and do everything so it's set up to be possible to bolt it onto the end of something else. It was released as the good bye to 5e module.

[lime bramble]

In the book it says 9-10

[marble mantle]

so it's sandboxy? damn i thought CoS was a sandbox

I checked it out and it sounds perfect to run after CoS tbh

[severe rampart]

I might run it after Curse of Strahd but that all depends on the players. If their stories are done it's done.

[fossil hollow]

CoS is a little bit sandboxy yeah

[lime bramble]

Im stupid what's a cos

[severe rampart]

Curse of Strahd.

[lime bramble]

Ohh

[marble mantle]

mb i shoulda explained it

[woven flint]

You folks wanna know what's funny?

[marble mantle]

Curse of Strahd is a blast, im thinking of running it for randoms online at some point

[tawdry sentinel]

Reloaded is significantly less sandboxy for Strahd.

It is a lot more obvious what anyone should be doing at any given point.

[lime bramble]

I have a bard in my campaign that is a gay stripper and he does crap with the monsters to distract them

[lime bramble]

Id be interested in

[woven flint]

It's potentially Canon that Vecna met Michael Myers.

Since he's in Dead by Daylight and WOTC said it was canon to his lore IIRC?

[lavish flame]

Eve of Ruin is not sandboxy at all. You go through a handful of vignettes from across the D&D Multiverse to collect a mcguffin. The order you do those vignettes isn't up to the PCs. Its got kinda hard rails so the story happens.

[marble mantle]

yeah thats what i noticed, it literally says that some options from the original should be removed since it gives the players too many ideas. Thats why im leaning towards the OG

[barren badger]

Magic initiate

[lime bramble]

Yea lol

[marble mantle]

Then even more reason to play it after CoS to go from horror to avengers level of combat sounds sick especially when they're not overthinking how deathhouse connects to the late game puzzles

[fossil hollow]

EoR is... interestingly written

[lime bramble]

Wdym

[lavish flame]

Its not good

[barren badger]

Its bad

[lavish flame]

Thats a euphemism for "its one of the worst 5e adventures"

[marble mantle]

what do you guys run or play at level 10?

[fossil hollow]

its shit

[barren badger]

like, are you starting a new adventure?

[lime bramble]

How its great

[marble mantle]

no after curse of Strahd

[uncut zenith]

I don’t think it’s bad but it’s plot is weak. It’s written mostly as a “walkthrough exhibit” of the first 10 years of 5E

[barren badger]

Honestly, after COS im ready to start with new characters

COS is a relatively long adventure

[marble mantle]

completely valid

[uncut zenith]

Its primary job is showing you a little of 5E’s biggest hits, but the plot is pretty crappy and it’s kind of a waste of D&D’s most iconic villain.

[fossil hollow]

You speedrun every single other setting to the point it feels like they were put there to just make more interest and money, plays on nostalgia, and also the encounters as written are shit for level 10+

[rotund abyss]

Kentucky Fried Cockatrice

[fossil hollow]

I missed one session and missed the entire EBERRON section

[marble mantle]

from what i've heard, dnd gets rough at high levels

[barren badger]

Its not tooo bad tbh

[peak pecan]

Not really. It just has to be prepped adequately for

[barren badger]

it just gets weird

[shy stirrup]

I6 Ravenloft (1984) was pretty straightforward. Get stuck, visit village, have fun storming the castle

[fossil hollow]

@hot marlin , where is your EoR rant?

[barren badger]

One Night In Ravenloft is a fun little quest thingy

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/359-strahd-must-die-tonight-how-to-play-ravenloft-in-a

[lavish flame]

For one, I might consider 1-10 to be a good place to call it with those characters and their story. Especially for Curse of Strahd, as the PCs assumed motivations for CoS ("I want to go home") don't really work in other adventures.

People talk about CoS to Eve of Ruin because EoR features Strahd in somewhat post-CoS state. I think your characters' motivations for Strahd might incline them to not make sense in EoR.

[marble mantle]

fair but that's kinda what i mean, time between sessions gets prolonged

[fossil hollow]

oh yeah, reminds me, Vecna's statblock is meh too. ||Kas|| and ||Strahd|| have so much more interesting statblocks and theyre beaters

[tawdry sentinel]

It also has the many "suddenly you are dead" fights from the original be significantly easier or less likely to stumble blindly into.

I have only run reloaded though. Tbh, for just reading the one section before running a session, it is great. Can't complain, easy to run, good story, very clear rails which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[hot marlin]

I have been summoned

[fossil hollow]

AHA, that was a fell ritual to summon a fiend! But yes, i do need your EoR rant

[hot marlin]

#dnd-discussion message

It starts there

And it continues for quite a few messages

[marble mantle]

sorry but if u want could u explaing what aspects of EoR are completely different. I'm not saying ur wrong i just have the most plain idea of what EoR is

[barren badger]

I have mixed feelings on reloaded, but I overall enjoy the tool and what DragnaCarta has done with it

[shy stirrup]

This is a tad reductionist, but there's a bubble, a village, a castle, and a vampire in said castle. Pretty much everything else is padding.

[fossil hollow]

|| Players usually dont know wether or not Strahd is revived||

[marble mantle]

I did use reloaded for some of death house, the final boss in reloaded is far better

[fossil hollow]

Spending 1-10 levels to kill him ||only for him to appear|| again is...

[marble mantle]

I completely understand

[loud isle]

Hey guys if I take silvery barbs as a part of the magic initiate (wizard) feat, it says I can cast it without using a spell slot, does that mean I can cast it and another spell like hold person in the same turn?

[barren badger]

yes.

[loud isle]

Oh ok, cool

[fossil hollow]

yes

[barren badger]

Once per long rest

[loud isle]

Sweet

That's great that means my eloquence bard build still works

[marble mantle]

wait what? forreal? i've been scamming my players, is silvery barbs not a first level spell

[barren badger]

it is. But the "free cast" is once per long rest.

[loud isle]

definitely first level

[marble mantle]

so u can cast 2 spells then?

[loud isle]

Yes

[barren badger]

you can only expend one spell slot per turn

[fossil hollow]

yes. this is viable even in 2014, since you are limited if you cast a Bonus Action spell

[barren badger]

Using magic initaite's free cast does not expend a spell slot.

[hot marlin]

So yeah, my main take is that Vecna: Eve of Ruin is the worst 5e adventure not because of its design but because it's unethical, hollow and uses nostalgia as an aesthetic while essentially taking a dump on the work of actual creative people. It's plagiarism, not legally but ethically.

[marble mantle]

damnnn don't tell my players yikes, i was just glad i could ignore silvery barbs

[loud isle]

why not just ban the spell

[fossil hollow]

you can also just not allow strixhaven

[marble mantle]

nahhh, if they are OP i get the permission to be OP it's too tempting

[fossil hollow]

I have seen Owlin and SB used, a handful of times

I really hate Strixhaven

[lavish flame]

Silvery Barbs is mostly a "cancel crit" spell in my experience, which makes it barely different from any other reroll effect

[marble mantle]

strixhaven is in dnd? i thought it was an MTG thing

[fossil hollow]

its both

[woven flint]

.. believe it or not
WOTC owns MTG :]..

:[

[cerulean monolith]

Shield guardian uses it about once per fight, but my reaction is better served for other stuff

[tawdry sentinel]

Same with a few modules TBF.

Like Stormwreck isle (which I get is a starter module)

There's no story reason you can't walk to the end immediately, stealth ambush a sleeping wyrmling, surprise round, autocrit paladin smite, follow up with as many magic missiles as possible, hope you've done the 50 damage you need before it gets a go.

[fossil hollow]

and also a free advantage, but so many people tend to forget that or give it to themselves

[marble mantle]

it makes my guys as a dm miss sometimes which can be detrimental

[barren badger]

Yeah, i really like the death house boss in reloaded.

My two complaints with reloaded are:

1. The author is not concerned about encounters per day. He's okay with players going straight from a long rest to a boss encounter. But he states pretty clearly that he doesn't intend for any fights to risk a TPK. He's there to tell a story.

2. Multi-phase fights happen a lot and begin to become predictable.

railroading is fine, it makes things a lot easier on the DM and many players do not care.

[fossil hollow]

Im the guy reminding or asking people whose getting the Advantage

[lavish flame]

it is! MTG and D&D are owned by the same company, Wizards of the Coast, and they do collaberations. MTG Secret Lair × Baldur's Gate was a Magic the Gathering set a while back. We've gotten setting expansions for Ravnica, Theros, Strixhaven, and Lorwyn. (Of them, Ravnica and Theros are very solid settings. Strixhaven is mostly an adventure, and Lorwyn is fairly content-light)

[marble mantle]

you're so right, the time mechanic is way too strict

[loud isle]

I was running a bene gesserit inspired eloquence bard years ago before 2024 rules dropped and stacked unsettling words bardic inspiration and silvery barbs to maximize the probability that my spells succeeded. Are there any new options in the 2024 rules that I can use to boost this further?

[marble mantle]

makes rests impossible

[jolly canyon]

The players in the WM do not forget to use SB correctly. I'm surprised the DMs haven't banned it cause they clearly hate it lol

[barren badger]

oh the time mechanic is fine, i think.

Its more in later parts of the story tbh. The players wont have any encounters before facing a boss

[marble mantle]

even at level 2 all of death house with no long rests can really mess them up depending on class diversity (i have no warlocks or sorcerers=

[fossil hollow]

the ||ghouls|| and ||broom|| tend to carry

[barren badger]

||I think reloaded removes a lot of encounters||

[fossil hollow]

screw that

[barren badger]

I thiiiink

[severe rampart]

what, that sucks

[fossil hollow]

Death House is Death House. Its not called Life House

[marble mantle]

Oh yeah wizards of the coast own mtg tooo, does anyone know if they any cool technomage settings?

[severe rampart]

I TPK'ed my first party in the death house

[fossil hollow]

Eberron and Kamigawa, but theres no official book or supplement for the latter

[barren badger]

Here are the design notes on it:

https://www.strahdreloaded.com/Act+I+-+Into+the+Mists/Arc+A+-+Escape+From+Death+House#Design Notes Death House

[severe rampart]

if they want death house to be easier, just don't include it

personally I made it more difficult

[barren badger]

Oh i think it was harder

[severe rampart]

threw in a flameskull, ogre zombie, and skeleton minotaur

[marble mantle]

I'd reply but the spoiler tags are impossible on my keyboard

[tawdry sentinel]

||Nothing upstairs from memory bar the armour.||

[severe rampart]

||My death house had four animated armors!||

[barren badger]

||https://www.strahdreloaded.com/Act+I+-+Into+the+Mists/Arc+A+-+Escape+From+Death+House#Ritual Chamber||

Check out what the boss looks like in reloaded

[marble mantle]

rn im thinking of running a dimension 20 setting (fantasy high) but more primitive

[barren badger]

I didn't run this with my current party, but I've read it before and nearly TPK'd the group

[fossil hollow]

High Fantasy is just normal FR

[marble mantle]

im sorry whats FR

[barren badger]

one character survived concious, the other two passed three death saving throws

[fossil hollow]

Forgotten Realms

[severe rampart]

ah, ||basically just Undead Shambling Mound?, simple||

[fossil hollow]

Ig also Greyhawk

[marble mantle]

forgotten realms has that that capabillity? haven't heard of any nations that have that type of tech

[barren badger]

It has two phases, which is a little neat

[barren badger]

The designer likes to give their creatures 3 bonus actions per turns and give them LOTS of reactions

[fossil hollow]

They did. That nation got blasted to rubble

[severe rampart]

As if the players are gonna fight it instead of running away

[thick void]

Should players go out of the way to pull out the backstory from their fellow players or should they trust the player and DM to reveal the story at their own pace?

[tawdry sentinel]

The reloaded boss is beatable in a straight fight.

The 2014 one is kiteable so you can just run in circles.

The 2024 ||shambling mound does not shamble and has ranged attacks which makes the entire experience deeply unpleasant and basically guarantees at least one death||

[fossil hollow]

thats a thing to discuss as a group

[marble mantle]

also it's 2 CR higher

[tawdry sentinel]

Are they not both 5?

[barren badger]

Reloaded also has the ||amber shard necklace thing|| that stuns them or something

[severe rampart]

I just dislike reloaded

[marble mantle]

no? is the reloaded one not ||two cr3's in a row||

[fossil hollow]

Oh speaking of which, Dragonlance also is apocalyptic high fantasy. They had full on magical robots before they got a mountain thrown at them

[tawdry sentinel]

Ah I thought you were on about the 2014 and 2024.

[fossil hollow]

Istarian Drones or something

[marble mantle]

ahh yeah mb

[peak pecan]

Yeah, the Istarians were a great civilization. Shame about all the blasphemies

[barren badger]

I'm reading through the dragonlance novels now

[odd valley]

old list, where toa

[fossil hollow]

they needed that mountain

[barren badger]

They're not to obad

OotA in Top tier is kind of wild.

[fossil hollow]

OoTA has great set pieces, just relied a lot on the DM to make it workable together

[peak pecan]

Radiant Citadel isn’t a module, it’s an anthology. It’s better than Candlekeep to me

[odd valley]

not really, it’s a pretty alright book

[odd valley]

he also includes tales from the yawning portal on there, in b

[fossil hollow]

which also isnt one tho

[odd valley]

isn’t an anthology or a module?

[fossil hollow]

a module

[peak pecan]

Yeah, which is a little low in my opinion for an anthology book home to great classic adventures

[barren badger]

i dont think its the worst, but I dont think it would be in A tier.

[peak pecan]

Yeah, it’s very firmly a high B to me

[hot marlin]

I think OotA has one of the best concepts out of the 5e adventures, but its execution is lackluster

[rough basalt]

Yeah it's a badly formatted book too

Putting it lightly

[barren badger]

Theres actually a few missing here

Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus
Waterdeep: Dragon Heist
Dragon of Icespire Peak

[odd valley]

no there are tons missing

i assume it’s what he’s played through

[rough basalt]

Most dnd adventure books require light to severe DM work to make them work

[odd valley]

for starters, ToA isn’t there either

[hot marlin]

The actual three worst books are bad for very different reasons I find fascinating. Those being Eve of Ruin, Princes of the Apocalypse and Storm King's Thunder

[rough basalt]

Quests from the Infinite Staircase is one of the outliers.

[peak pecan]

Icespire is the definition of “reliant on side content” to me; A tier for new DMs, B tier for everyone else

[rough basalt]

Yeah Storm King's Thunder is just downright horrendous

[odd valley]

two of them were ruined by green ronin right?

[rough basalt]

Actually waste of paper.

[tawdry sentinel]

Ghosts of Saltmarsh I really liked as an anthology.

[fossil hollow]

i think SKT is great. As a background set piece or plot

Not as the main thing

[rough basalt]

If you as the dm make its plot better of course.

[barren badger]

Im in it as a player now and they've done a LOT of work with it and its been fun. But as written, yeah

[odd valley]

i’d love to play a dotmm game

[rough basalt]

I think the plot by itself is pretty mid at best.

[fossil hollow]

DotMM is peak, im running it rn

[valid geyser]

i think its funny how the original infintie staircase book is an allegory about the death of creativity and rehashing when thats exactly what quests from the infinite staircase is

[odd valley]

let me in, LET ME INNNNN!

[peak pecan]

I bought SKT to avoid needing to buy SCAG as a 2014 5e guide to the Realms

[hot marlin]

Eve of Ruin is bad because it breaks any form of artistic ethic, is culturally harmful, destructive, hollow, plagiaristic in intent and so utterly evil that I honestly think writing and publishing it should be a crime. Storm King's Thunder is bad because its execution is horrendous, its narrative structure is stupid, its actual plot remains unadressed. Princes of the Apocalypse is bad because...Well it's just a nothing burger.

[valid geyser]

at least thats what i heard, dont completely quote me

[fossil hollow]

unfortunately, its full 😔

[rough basalt]

Then SKT tells you to buy SCAG to fill in the blanks.

[odd valley]

i’m joking, but it would be fun to do lmao

[fossil hollow]

im also recently learning that ||HEKATON GETS KIDNAPPED AND TURNED INTO A DEATH KNIGHT like, 100 YEARS AFTER????||

[barren badger]

Its a LONG module, right?

[fossil hollow]

which one

[rough basalt]

Dungeon? Yeah

[barren badger]

dungeon

[hot marlin]

That's an adventure's league follow-up that's...Actually good.

[rough basalt]

5 to 20

[fossil hollow]

5-20 for DotMM

[rough basalt]

It's a 23 level megadungeon

[fossil hollow]

Im tempted to scrounge it up and add it to BG, but im not even sure what levels and layer of the hells its in

[rough basalt]

But yeah, Eve of Ruin as written is just constant key jangling.

[hot marlin]

Bear in mind that in DotMM you can skip content fairly well. You can just head straight for the exit of a given level and not engage with it if you see nothing there that would prompt your characters to take an interest

[odd valley]

hm

[fossil hollow]

which, i think, is a good option for such a dungeon crawl

[rough basalt]

Old WotC saw their ends and said "we got one last crappy book in us!"

And set out to make an adventure book worse than SKT

[peak pecan]

It’s a “celebration of 50 years of D&D” written presumably for an audience whose never played before but knows a few buzzwords

[rough basalt]

Yep

[hot marlin]

Dream of the Red Wizards doesn't just take place in hell. It actually involves follow-ups to Tomb of Annihilation, Storm King's Thunder, Descent into Avernus and ties to Dead in Thay. All in all, just adding it to DiA doesn't work

[peak pecan]

Funny part is, it fails at that end too

[rough basalt]

They built up the Netherese Obelisks over several adventures just to completely scrap it in Eve of Ruin.

[barren badger]

i remember hearing about them in ROTF :[

[rough basalt]

Cause Craw and Perk wanted one last crapper before they left.

[fossil hollow]

thought as much. Welp, might add it then to another FR game. Maybe i should run SKT... without localizing it to my setting.

[barren badger]

I honestly hate being sold nostalgia

[odd valley]

i get that

[hot marlin]

Don't

[rough basalt]

5es more consistently good stuff was just old adventures ported to 5e

[fossil hollow]

too late, im already trying to figure out what module to mix it with

[peak pecan]

No noob, if asked, would say that Dragonlance is integral to their enjoyment of D&D media. If you’re going to make a nostalgia piece for outsiders, do more in the Realms or Greyhawk; get Drizzt. Even normies know Drizzt

[odd valley]

what are your thoughts on the nest of the evil eye prologue?

[rough basalt]

Actual 5e original adventures most were mid or sucked

[fossil hollow]

I-I just have a soft spot for SKT ok? I like giants :(

[rough basalt]

With a few outliers.

[hot marlin]

Don't really have any

[hot marlin]

It is because I like giants that I stay away from SKT.

[peak pecan]

Me too; I was so excited to run it

[rough basalt]

Icewind Dale was one of the few times old WotC had some sense of sauce.

[fossil hollow]

Its good set pieces, and the idea of a FR hexcrawl/sandbox reaaaaallly interest me rn

[odd valley]

no there was a run of decent stuff

[peak pecan]

Doesn’t actually tie into the adventure that much

[barren badger]

a good DM can make a good campaign out of most of the 5e modules

[odd valley]

may i suggest toa?

[rough basalt]

I'm talking 5e originals

[barren badger]

it just takes work :] (a LOT sometimes)

[fossil hollow]

meesa thought that was mostly Chult

[hot marlin]

Then take a map of Faerûn, put a hex grid over it, and find yourself another plotline.

[rough basalt]

I'm talking stuff that don't require a good dm to work

[fossil hollow]

meesa kill Mystra then

[rough basalt]

But something a newer dm can pick up and not feel like they got thrown in the deep end of the pool.

[odd valley]

it is, but it still is in the FR

[fossil hollow]

fair nough

[odd valley]

fits the criteria needed

[hot marlin]

Why do people want to keep killing Mystra? Just let the poor girl rest

[rough basalt]

For what the 1st Mystra did

[fossil hollow]

at this point, its for the love of the game

[odd valley]

would toa not be an original?

(granted it came out before icewind dale lmao)

[rough basalt]

ToA is one of the outliers cause at least it only uses ToH as loose inspiration and is mostly a hexcrawl in chult.

ToA, Icewind Dale.

[fossil hollow]

Wait. I should just actually mix ToD and SKT for maximum pain

[rough basalt]

A lot of original adventures were just "mid" I'd say.

[fossil hollow]

ToD then

[rough basalt]

Weren't good out the box but not hard to make good.

[odd valley]

wuzzat

[fossil hollow]

Tyranny of Dragons

[rough basalt]

Then you had the true tests of a DMs strengrh

[odd valley]

lmao

[peak pecan]

Where does Tyranny of Dragons rank on the “WoTC failure” meter? That seemed pretty jank to me when I flipped through a friend’s copy of the first half

[rough basalt]

The true crappers.

[rough basalt]

It's up there.

[odd valley]

i read some of tod and couldn’t sit through it

[fossil hollow]

Top. It doesnt help Kobold Press wrote it

[rough basalt]

Kobold Press has a bit of an excuse tho

Cause they were working with developing tools wotc kept changing

[odd valley]

being the fact that they’re the first that made a high level adventure too

[rough basalt]

Rather than a full coherent rulebooks.

[odd valley]

wizards didn’t make anything past level 10 till like pota and oota

[rough basalt]

WotC was just constantly going "Ahhh!" And burning on fire while Kobold Press is just like "Please we just want the rules to build the adventure!"

Green Ronin and Sasquatch didn't much have an excuse for Princes, and Out of the Abyss being gunk

2015 Green Ronin just sucked

[fossil hollow]

GR also wrote SCAG, so they have no love from me

[peak pecan]

I liked SKT’s modularity in theory, it’s probably worse to run in reality though

[fossil hollow]

it was ok for me.

[peak pecan]

It reminded me of Breath of the Wild’s non-linearity

[rough basalt]

Yeah it's the hardest adventure to run out of 5e adventures I believe.

[hot marlin]

Tyranny of Dragons is overhated.

Game design wise, it has its problems, but it has a tight narrative

[rough basalt]

KP did the best they could I think

[peak pecan]

This is a take hotter than the Plane of Fire

[rough basalt]

WotC just was trying to rush an adventure out the door without the tools to make said adventure.

[valid geyser]

i think its still an adventure you can run and maybe even have fun with, which is more than can be said for some other ones

[fossil hollow]

Incubus approved, i will mix it with SKT now

Annam needs a reason to break the ordning

[rough basalt]

Like reminder
The release schedule was
LMoP
PHB
Hoard of the Dragon Queen
Monster Manual
Rise of Tiamat
Then finally the DMG

[odd valley]

wait then wizards didn’t make a high level adventure till like dotmm

[fossil hollow]

imagine goofing it so bad when you released LMoPeak

[hot marlin]

Sir, that is literally the reason stated in SKT

[rough basalt]

So KP didn't have the right tools in either development cause WotC said "nah yall don't need tools to make stuff. Just make stuff up like it's Yugioh Duel Monsters show"

[fossil hollow]

oh. Well, das what im doing then

[peak pecan]

Yeah, I really like the narrative at parts, but any combats suggested seemed too easy or overtuned

[rough basalt]

WotC at the time didn't really wanna make anything I think. They wanted the players to. Reflected in DMG having you build a setting, campaign, content for the campaign, before actually teaching you how to use said setting, campaign and content for the campaign

[odd valley]

do yall think they’re gonna do more adventure modules?

or is it wraps for those books

[rough basalt]

Yeah, after they fix up all the messes old wotc caused.

[glossy otter]

Most likely. Deadfall is the next one up

[fossil hollow]

iirc, theres one in the works for the Red Wizards

[glossy otter]

We're still waiting on Venger

[fossil hollow]

also, whats a good name for SKT + TOD campaign

[rough basalt]

I think rn the focus is to make setting guides to establish themselves as "not the wotc who made 5e"

[odd valley]

dragon queens tyranny lmao

[rough basalt]

Rage of the Ancients

[glossy otter]

That does make me think, would the Venger module had been a victim of getting scrapped

[fossil hollow]

I already have Shadow of the Dragon Queen :(

[fossil hollow]

thank you

[cerulean monolith]

The Storm King’s Tyrannical Draconic Thunder, obviously

[rough basalt]

Sounds like a Monster Truck

[fossil hollow]

or a Gamer Fuel flavor name

[peak pecan]

A Song of Scales and Storms

[glossy otter]

I only think that because apparantly Vecna: Eve of Ruin had a whole seperate plot

[fossil hollow]

i like the LoZ vibe

[odd valley]

tiamats avatar or whatever you fight at the end of tod performing a fusion dance with the final boss of skt

[rough basalt]

Yeah Eve of Ruin was originally supposed to involve Netherils Fall

[fossil hollow]

flashbacks to Aquila from HSR

[barren badger]

I’m stealing this name

[rough basalt]

That's where the Netherils fall supplement came from

[fossil hollow]

Wait, thats so peak, ||Iymrith|| fusing with ||Tiamat||

[cerulean monolith]

Except that’s not true. One guy said it and immediately every other person who worked on the book said it was bogus

[glossy otter]

ngl that would've been an interesting twist if it was Vecna responsible for Netheril's dowfall

[rough basalt]

New WotC scooped it up and just threw it in with FR books cause I mean works ig

[glossy otter]

huh, interesting

[rough basalt]

Lorwyn was also a canceled setting book I believe

[fossil hollow]

... Does Tiamat take female consorts?

[peak pecan]

Huh, makes sense

[rough basalt]

WotC in the 2020s had a habit of just canceling stuff

[limber trail]

The Tyrannical Storm King’s Thunder Bowl: Now Featuring Dragons!

[rough basalt]

It's why Dragonlances creators had bad blood with them until Dan Ayoub came in and reconciled them

[odd valley]

“we’re actually canceling 5.5e, back to the 2014 version we go!”

[little stream]

So there's canceling stuff outside of twitter

[cerulean monolith]

The guy (his name escapes me right now) had his vision for EoR, but he never actually got it greenlit. Iirc, it never even made it to the writer’s room, it was just his own ideas. Once EoR started being conceptualized for real, his plan was never considered.

[rough basalt]

Probably tried but Ayoub parried it and riposted sending Crawford and Perkins back to the bonfire.

I like to imagine Crawford being dragged out screaming nooo as he watched the Dark Sun 5e pitch being walked into the conference room.

[hot marlin]

In lore no. In theory, her consorts have two purposes, the first is to fertilize her eggs, the second is to be her servants. With magic, a female dragon can do the first part. Anyone can do the second part

[odd valley]

“foolish crawperks, may you fail to become a lord of cinder.”

[glossy otter]

Tbh I thought that would've been Kyle Brink after his whole discussion about it

[odd valley]

also was this because of the dark souls discord tag or

[fossil hollow]

mmmmm

[rough basalt]

I think Kyle Brink is probably the crestfallen warrior in this dark souls analogy

[glossy otter]

Hmm?

[rough basalt]

"No. They're gonna make a setting where. Evil people are evil." Crestfallen Brink, 2026

[cerulean monolith]

WotC has been making a lot of decisions this decade that cause important people to their operation to leave. It’s why they’ve been in a designer shortage for the last year and a half.

I honestly believe D&DBeyond, and by extension this server, will be the next victim. I can’t imagine plenty of the people we see around here will be too happy when WotC pushes AI onto the site

[rough basalt]

Tbh it's not surprising some left.

[barren badger]

Has WOTC done much innovation on DNDbeyond since they've bought it?

[rough basalt]

Not until now

WotC beforehand didn't really wanna do anything. And they wouldn't do anything with existing IPs cause of media backlash.

[cerulean monolith]

Yes, absolutely. Some of it has been successful, some of it hasn’t. Their biggest projects have been Sigil, which got shut down, and Maps, which is sticking around. For the better part of the past year they’ve also been Ship of Theseus’ing the backend, too

[rough basalt]

But it looks like Ayoub and the current CEO likely don't care as much given the Dark Sun 5e UA that dropped shortly after Crawford left.

[glossy otter]

I do wonder if this means they'll start walking back on some of the other topics like the whole thing about the orcs and the elves

[odd valley]

what was sigil?

was that the 3d map thing

[glossy otter]

It was meant to be their 3d vtt

[rough basalt]

I think for good and ill Ayoub is trying to make money

And if quality maintains he realizes that happy consumers spend the most money

[shy stirrup]

Sigil did not lack for ambition, that's for sure

[glossy otter]

My only hope if dnd's willing to be more dark, is that Ravenloft doesn't feel cushoned

[rough basalt]

And probably realizes that people who will spend the most money on DnD are the devoted fans that want setting guides rather than just key jangling multiverse stuff.

[barren badger]

I would say sigil wasnt related to dndbeyond at all.

I guess maps is a thing?

[odd valley]

pretty sure sigil was aiming for ddb integration

[rough basalt]

We'll see. Right now I'm in a state of ill keep buying as long as the books are good.

[barren badger]

kind of? it required software to download and run though. Like it was a standalone progam (with higher system requirements than BG3 ironically)

But i guess it could have pulled from dndbeyond

[little stream]

Always thought that DnD could be dark, Breanan's way of doing thing was...grim

I felt genuine dread sometimes, atleast for me. Idk anyone else

[rough basalt]

DnD is dark, it just doesn't advertise it.

Players regularly ignore the dark themes in a lot of adventures

[barren badger]

I think conveying a dark setting in DND as a DM is kind of tough.

[glossy otter]

Oh mind. In execution DM's have their ways, but Van Richten's did feel like it hesitated to be horror for fear of offense or on that level

[rough basalt]

They only engage with it in Icewind Dale and Strahd cause it's very in your face and even then, I see posts constantly turning Strahd into looney toons

[lavish flame]

see: Curse of Strahd's online existence versus its physical existence

[rough basalt]

The greater 5e playerbase are just "beer and pretzel" people.

They wanna just hang out and roll dice.

[barren badger]

I think many people play dnd in a lighthearted manner which makes it difficult to be dark

[rough basalt]

They don't acknowledge the dark themes and don't care to which makes the dark adventures more disturbing in the wrong way imo.

[peak pecan]

It was standalone, but at some point you were supposed to be able to link a D&DBeyond account and have it port your character over

[rough basalt]

Like I got fed up with one such player cause he kept having his changeling change into dead kids in strahd cause."it funny"

[barren badger]

Another reason I'm glad i play with people who are slightly older

i couldnt imagine playing grim hallow with a bunch of 18-20 year olds

[little stream]

I mean any game, dnd or video games want to be lighthearted but when the need arises. If it went dark, so be it. I LOVED every game that does that mind you

[shy stirrup]

leans back in rocking chair
Kids these days, amiright?

[rough basalt]

Like I'm trying to roleplay a tiefling woman terrified for her sister who came to barovia weeks before. It's kinda hard to be willing to adventure with a shape-shifting jerk whose doing that stuff.

Halo Combat Evolved is a good example.

First half of the game is "hell yeah fight aliens" then it suddenly becomes an eldritch horror.

[glossy otter]

DM: "This will be a campaign where we explore the elements of trauma and human suffering as to potray the horror of this world"

Player: "That sounds scary, I just want to be a wholesome bard"

[shy stirrup]

Pretty jarring tone disconnect there, yea

[barren badger]

i think people are just at different stages of their life and enjoy different things at different ages

[odd valley]

idk i feel like i wouldn’t mess up the mood that badly

[rough basalt]

And its actually pretty freaking scary, especially the first mission that starts the 2nd half

[odd valley]

of cos?

[barren badger]

I mean, kids these days arent serious enough! With their game boys and their insta-toks

[rough basalt]

I've played its campaign so many times over the years and I still get goosebumps playing that mission.
Nah Halo Combat Evolved

[odd valley]

saw that lmao

[rough basalt]

An example of when something that feels more lighthearted makes a giant switch to horror or something.

[little stream]

You mean vine?

[rough basalt]

I'm feeling old hearing Vine.

Little did Vine know what they had done.

[odd valley]

flashback!

[barren badger]

yes vine! Any kid born after 1992 doesnt know how to play dnd. All they know is citical roll, fortnite, and skibidi

[glossy otter]

I remember when fortnite was good

[rough basalt]

Aight not 92, 2013 moreso

[barren badger]

i think skibidi is actually pretty dated now

[odd valley]

didn’t know what critical role was until i came here lmao

[odd valley]

very dated

[little stream]

I was there when diablo 1 came out mind you

[rough basalt]

Same.
I think it's hilarious how ridiculous it is now but yeah.

[odd valley]

back in my day

[barren badger]

whats big now? 76?

[glossy otter]

It's got art the clown so it's got redeemable qualities

[barren badger]

7- 6

[shy stirrup]

ugh

[odd valley]

flip it around and you’ve got something that’s only slightly dated

[rough basalt]

Oh God no.

[little stream]

Tbf some calc could do the magical number, them kids having 76 would be fair lol

[barren badger]

back in my day we didnt have dnd beyond. You'd have someones older brother who worked at kinkos print out PDFs of the rules and put them in binders.

(this was in 2005, please do NOT ban me for this)

[glossy otter]

I mean personal use is one thing

[idle oar]

That's just how D&D was played IRL (still is to some degree - everyone brings what books they have and share at the table).

[little stream]

The absoulute hell some printers went of us

[rough basalt]

I wish I got into dnd as a kid. It would've been perfect for my how hyperactive my mind was lol.

[dense nacelle]

Just had an idea for a dnd character

[barren badger]

i was 15 years old. There was no way I'd be able to afford a PHB

[rough basalt]

Still is, but significantly more energy and less mind fog back then.

[shy stirrup]

Back in my day, we had Save or Die
You made the save,
or you died 💀

[barren badger]

I had to hide it from my parents.... they said it was evil

[rough basalt]

My parents probably would've gotten me books for it every birthday/christmas

[little stream]

But why? Thought parents would be thankful to have literacy interest?!

[marble mantle]

"it funny" will always be my biggest nightmare

[rough basalt]

Cause I mean, they got me stuff like Devil May Cry and GTA.

[shy stirrup]

Getting started as a kid in the Satanic Panic era could be challenging, occasionally

[dense nacelle]

Would ashardalon be fiend patron because of his demon heart?

[barren badger]

yeahh, i mean 2005 was LONG past the satanic panic, but my parents still thoguht it was evil

[rough basalt]

Video game panic started overtaking it at some point.

[shy stirrup]

The echoes of it carried on, still do, in some quarters

[rough basalt]

Ye but nowadays a lot of people know you're just a nut for such things.

[shy stirrup]

I need a I Survived the Satanic Panic t-shirt
note to self

[rough basalt]

Rock and Roll then DnD then video games

Always something

[marble mantle]

sorry, the temptation was too strong not to add that emoji

[shy stirrup]

Yep

[little stream]

Fair, fair

[marble mantle]

tbf i did make a whole essay in my psychology class about the dnd satanic panic

[barren badger]

kids these days no respect

[shy stirrup]

It's a very interesting chapter in the history of this hobby, to say the least

there's a few good vids on YT if interested

[marble mantle]

it's by far my favorite aspect of dnd, the fact that people felt such a strong conviction about playing a harmless game despite their parents dissapproval makes it so much cooler in modern time

[shy stirrup]

Ah, but they didn't think it was harmless, of course. Quite the opposite.

[marble mantle]

to the players it was, which makes a great point about how escapism is more accepted by youth

tbf to you tho i defintely knew some kids who intentionally played it because they thought it was satanic lol

[peak pecan]

I had to argue with my folks to get to play, and that was in 2022/23

[rough basalt]

I remember a story where someone's grandma said some satanic panic stuff and they had her sit down and watch and she was just like "this is just a board game" and got angry and left.

[shy stirrup]

Ok quick story time. Had a casual convo with the friendly neighborhood cop once as a kid playing D&D. He asks, just as a topic of convo, what do I do for fun? I say I play TTRPGs. His demenour suddenly changed, as if I had just told him I joined a terrorist organization. "Not D&D, right?"

"Erm, no. Boot Hill" I said, "a Western-themed TTRPG" (also published by TSR)

This seemed to satisfy him, and that was that...

[barren badger]

A close friend of mine works at a christian private school that requires students to do a (very important) end of senior year project.

One student did his on dnd and the OGL, but he spent a lot of time discussing how dnd is actually a good representation of christian values.

That student might be in this server, idk

[rough basalt]

Even nowadays, people think DnD is the only thing.

[marble mantle]

Lmao the hypocrisy...

[shy stirrup]

Fortunately, my parents were enlightened enough to see it was just a game, as were most of the parents of the kids at my table (but not all, there always tended to be one who had to play on the DL)

[marble mantle]

that's cool, all the docs make it seem like everyone over the age of 16 hated D&D and thought it was demonic

[shy stirrup]

This may not surprise you, but people tend to exaggerate for clicks

[rough basalt]

The prohibition era of dnd.

DnDeasies in the basements of adults with the ability to possess logic.

[marble mantle]

come into my cellar i got some D&D (this is a song reference i'm not a creep)

[woven flint]

I'm already there

Look behind you

[deft herald]

Is there any other or better way to find campaigns to join?

[peak pecan]

I’ve been here the whole time

[rough basalt]

No way. Next you're gonna tell me that the internet algorithms solely favor such exaggerations meant to provoke engagement.

[barren badger]

the fast and the furious was actually a story of vin diesel sneaking dnd books across the border in the back of his car

[shy stirrup]

Actually yes I was, how did you know?

[marble mantle]

Where you from? Cambridge Massacheussets?

[rough basalt]

Nah. I'm pretty sure that when the old guy screaming in the thumbnail say dnds dead he's right

[peak pecan]

Some would say that…

This is a joke: I have not doxxed myself

[marble mantle]

Insane that u get the reference respect

nvm u weren't referencing dropout

[peak pecan]

I was

[rough basalt]

I should've realized it.

[shy stirrup]

But no, there were not bands of wandering torch-bearing vigilantes, pulling kids out their parents basements. But for a time, you certainly would think twice about telling people you play D&D.

Now its like oh, you do? Cool. Good for you.

[peak pecan]

You really think someone would do that? Go on the internet and spread lies?

[marble mantle]

well then i wasted all those torches

[rough basalt]

Next you're gonna tell me the guy who makes "martials suck in dnd" videos once per month for rent is exaggerating for clicks for his rent money.

[marble mantle]

wait you mean martials are actually useful?? impossible

[shy stirrup]

Top 10 Spell Combos That Are Guaranteed to Make Your DM Quit (number 10 will amaze you!)

[rough basalt]

Yeah. Apparently if you actually read the rules and use them correctly, players are pretty balanced at the table.

But the guys on YT that say martials suck don't read the books and say that reading them is bad. So ima believe them instead.

[marble mantle]

I love those videos cause it's the equivelant of "top 10 ways to bully the nerd in class" it's purely evil

[shy stirrup]

Yea theres legit a whole subset of D&DTube that monetizes making your DM crazy

[rough basalt]

DnDTube is built off drama farming and misinformation.

It's why a lot of them are on hiatus or quitting.

[marble mantle]

nooooooo, the sketch guy is pretty funny

[rough basalt]

And the smart ones are branching off.

[shy stirrup]

There are some bright spots, but yea

[marble mantle]

3rdleveldmguy or whatevewr

[odd valley]

you talkin abt xp to level 3?

[rough basalt]

He's not as bad as others but he's got his dndtuber moments.

[marble mantle]

yeah

[peak pecan]

That, or reading other people’s stories of bad games and wildly extrapolating off them to create a steady stream of revenue off lazy outrage clicks

[odd valley]

not the worst not the best

[marble mantle]

oh for sure but you ignore those so you can keep up the parasocial relationship

why else would i consume tuber content?

[odd valley]

dungeon dudes are definitely up there tho

[shy stirrup]

I like them

[rough basalt]

Dungeon dudes I like

[shy stirrup]

I also like Matt Colville and Questing Beast, but that's because I'm OG and like to torture my players

[rough basalt]

They'll say typical dndtuber sensationalist things sometimes but as a joke then actually show they do know the game lol

[odd valley]

solid, good advice is rare to come by in the dnd world and they give a good bit of it

[barren badger]

Does anyone else kind of cringe at headlines like this? Especially in official WOTC content

[rough basalt]

One I like for his non-mechanics related advice is Mystic Dm

[marble mantle]

Like Dunnik said questing beast is actually great at giving real advice

[rough basalt]

His worldbuilding advice, ideas of how kinds of encounters you can have in a pillar are good but when it comes to mechanics, uh nah

[shy stirrup]

He's generally OSR focused, but often has good advice for many tables and systems

[odd valley]

depends on the level of optimization, but for most ppl martials will feel at par with casters, minus casting versatility

[peak pecan]

I mainly just watch SupergeekMike videos over and over again if I want to be entertained and inspired for future sessions

Can’t recommend him enough, a real DungeonTube rising star

[marble mantle]

everyone who plays dnd should have some form of OSR prove me wrong u cant

[rough basalt]

Yeah, for the general intended play, martials and casters are pretty balanced, even moreso in 5.5e

[shy stirrup]

I can't, and I won't

[rough basalt]

High optimization isn't really the intended playfield so naturally there's a divide there

[shy stirrup]

My hope/delusion is that 6th Edition, if and when it comes, will re-absorb some of the OSR elements the game has lost over the decades

and then I wake up and realize I'm dreaming

[rough basalt]

But for most cases, the "martial caster divide" people perceive is due to not running the game correctly

[marble mantle]

IDK if anyone ever played it except me but as someone who came from a super lite ttrpg like Cairn i love OSR

[rough basalt]

Cairn is dirt cheap which is nice

[marble mantle]

free to be exact, i did buy a module for it tho

[severe rampart]

Gonna make an NPC confront a PC about them making a deal with a hag and suggesting to sacrifice children this session

[rough basalt]

Oh really? I saw that the books for it on Amazon are only like 5 6 bucks

[odd valley]

well… then is there an intended optimization level? it’s not really ever stated aside from like saving throws on classes

[marble mantle]

yeah i do own the book, but the files are free even though it's way more convenient to own a physical copy just like actual dnd

[rough basalt]

I'm pretty sure the intended op level is "competent PC"

As in, they do what they're meant to do correctly and played properly

No Cleric with no martial weapon prof and 8 in strength using a Warhammer cause "my character is trying to get stronger and learn how to use this"

Or "self taught wizard" who is a Sorcerer who has an 8 in Charisma and believes he's a Wizard

[severe rampart]

a bit stressed on how the character will respond

[odd valley]

i could go and make abstract arguments about how this could imply a higher level of optimization than what wotc wanted but at the end of the day they haven’t made any statements saying “this is the standard optimization level of pcs”

[lavish flame]

I mean, arguably yeah. The 2024 PHB tells you how to assign your standard array ability scores depending on ur class. One could argue that thats supposed to be their intended level of balance

[rough basalt]

I think if they intended for every last drop of optimization to be squeezed out of characters the game wouldn't be as popular.

Cause it'd be Pathfinder 2e in that case.

[odd valley]

then the background asi is moot? or do they also recommend those

[lavish flame]

If they wanted u to optimize the hell outta the game, I figure they'd just stop printing bad options

[rough basalt]

PF2e does expect you to optimize quite a bit and work as a team

[lavish flame]

nah, then your Class' Primary Ability might step into play

they don't tell you how to assign ur ASIs, just your Standard Array

[rough basalt]

Like another example

[odd valley]

so then the standard level given is just optimizing the standard array and doing whatever you want with your background? that seems… oddly low

[lavish flame]

oh actually they do tell you to use your Class' Primary Ability for ur ASIs

[rough basalt]

5.5e Wizard recommends Detect Magic, Feather Fall, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Sleep and Thunderwave for your starting level 1 spells

[lavish flame]

yeah, its just making ur character competent. feels like a reasonable baseline to assume tbh

[odd valley]

but then wouldn’t that make a character with a background that differs from their class arguably less competent than a character with a background that synergizes with their class?

(sorry for the ping)

[rough basalt]

If it were intended to optimize it'd be I'd say.
Shield
Fog Cloud
Detect Magic
Find Familiar
Charm Person
Magic Missile
Then it'd tell you to dip a level for heavy armor proficiency or tell you to start as a class with it then go into wizard.

[lavish flame]

Yeah I figure thats just definitionally true

A Wizard who does not have a Background the buffs their Intelligence is gonna be a less competent Wizard than one that does

[odd valley]

no, as charm person is typically not useful

[rough basalt]

I'm just thinking what can bypass the social pillar

[shy stirrup]

But if you cant Charm Person, how can you get NPCs to like you?

[rough basalt]

Tho intended high op probably wouldn't have the social pillar in the game.

[odd valley]

it doesn’t bypass it though

[barren badger]

Friends cantrip :]

[odd valley]

iirc charm person makes the charmed person aware and hostile to you after does it not

[rough basalt]

It knows it was charmed but isn't inherently hostile

[uncut bison]

Game of thrones dnd would be so hard

Ama learn how to dm js to do this

[strong wave]

They have game of thrones dnd

[uncut bison]

Fr? Where

[shy stirrup]

Meh, that's more like the Casual Aquaitance cantrip. If ya really wanna make friends, Charm Person all the way

[vernal owl]

Theres a game of thrones ttrpg

[rough basalt]

Well 1, trying to run GoT in dnd is gonna be a pain in the ass.

[strong wave]

It's called a song of ice and fire

[vernal owl]

Iirc

[barren badger]

it also lasts an hour

[rough basalt]

As DnD is a magic game.

Where magic is very prevalent and expected to be and built around.

[barren badger]

you could maybe do GoT plotlines in dragonlance?

[uncut bison]

There is magical creature lowkkk

[vernal owl]

True, if anything its gotta be more about political intrigue and large scale battles, naturally needing mechanics to support that

[uncut bison]

And a lil bit of bard work

[barren badger]

lowkkk?

[rough basalt]

And its social pillar isn't structured enough for how politically driven GoT is.

Since it's just talk in roleplay then roll one dice.

The GoT ttrpg likely has actual social mechanics.

[barren badger]

I love discussions like this. When people are like:

"We should make a cyberpunk dnd homebrew"

[vernal owl]

Cyberpunk red crying in the corner

[barren badger]

I love cyberpunk red :]

[odd valley]

lowkey

[rough basalt]

I fundamentally can't understand turning dnd into abominations putting in a crapload more work than actually learning another system

[strong wave]

Is shadow runners cyberpunk

[uncut bison]

Got is 70% talking ngl

[odd valley]

tis an abbreviation

[barren badger]

No.

[rough basalt]

Yeah DnD as a game is designed around fighting primarily.

[barren badger]

Cyberpunk is based on the cyberpunk TTRPG

[vernal owl]

Taa

[barren badger]

Shadowrun is like, cyberpunk but with magic and orcs. Like the will smith movie, "Bright"

[uncut bison]

I feel like if it’s done properly, with the correct storyline and lead from a DM it can be played enjoyably

[strong wave]

Shadow runners feels cyberpunk to me

[odd valley]

cyberpunk red correct

[rough basalt]

I've read stories and it was just constant work.

[uncut bison]

But the world of GoT is super unforgiving tho

[rough basalt]

Cause you're trying to fit a triangle into a circle.

[barren badger]

Cyberpunk red is only the most recent verssion of the game

[uncut bison]

Party kill super likely

[rough basalt]

DnD characters are also basically superheroes

[shy stirrup]

Your thing = Round Peg
D&D = Square Hole

[rough basalt]

Wouldn't be a Khal Drogo who dies to a wound infection of a minor cut.

[vernal owl]

Everything. Fits in the square hole

[barren badger]

there is also cyberpunk 2013, cyberpunk 2020, and cyberpunk red

[peak pecan]

Shadowrun is the cyberpunk genre

[strong wave]

That's right it goes in the square hole 👍

[odd valley]

oh so it goes in then, good to know.

time to do a marvel dnd!

[barren badger]

Is it? Its like, Techmagick

[rough basalt]

Marvel and hero/villain ttrpgs crying

[shy stirrup]

I suppose I walked right into that one

[rough basalt]

Cyberpunk but with fantasy species and magic.

[barren badger]

Shadowrun literally has wizards, right?

[peak pecan]

This is basically what the official Marvel RPG is, except even that has fully unique mechanics

[rough basalt]

Shadowrun is its own very little niche

It's a complete batcrap insane system with an even more insane lore

If you've ever thought dnd was too much math.

[barren badger]

sixth edition.... was rough

[ivory stag]

I have a question about prepared spells can you change the spells you have prepared every session your group meets

[rough basalt]

Shadowrun makes DnD look like a narrative ruleslite system.

[barren badger]

no

[rough basalt]

No

[barren badger]

usually on long rest

[rough basalt]

Prepared spell rules depend on the class

[barren badger]

(your character taking a long rest, not the player)

[ivory stag]

Cleric sub life domain solider background with orc species

Lvl 4

19 ac

[strong wave]

The black moon does not howl just fyi it's in space and even if it was howling you couldn't hear it because of the lack of atmosphere

[severe rampart]

species, level, and background doesn't matter for the class

[rough basalt]

Clerics can change all their spells on a ingame long rest

We don't need to know the stats.

[severe rampart]

Your AC won't affect your spell, what

[vernal owl]

Bros giving their resume 🥶🥶

[barren badger]

I see.

[empty thicket]

Sadly there is no spells that involve AC like a stat

i dont even think there is some feature that use it

[ivory stag]

Oh

[severe rampart]

Mage Armor maybe?

[lone coral]

shield spell

[peak pecan]

Shield spell

[empty thicket]

like resource of that stat.

[rough basalt]

Shield of Faith

[vernal owl]

Shield spell

[barren badger]

I think franco means like, using the AC as the primary casting stat

[rough basalt]

Ah yeah.

[empty thicket]

like attack with the AC or smt like that

[empty thicket]

Thanks

[rough basalt]

Yeah no AC is just AC

[severe rampart]

AC is AC

[barren badger]

AC/DC

[shy stirrup]

AC is not DC?

[empty thicket]

Sad, the chance of some spines spell that scale with AC would had been nice

[peak pecan]

Not every stat’s a resource

[shy stirrup]

AC/DC? I swear Ive heard that somewhere

[barren badger]

What is AC if not simply the DC of being hit?

[severe rampart]

Well yeah that's it

[rough basalt]

I think we need some TNT

[severe rampart]

Omg.

[vernal owl]

Ac is ac and dc is ac

[empty thicket]

i think some TMNT would be better

[undone rain]

Are we on the highway to hell?

[lone coral]

thac0

[severe rampart]

OG?

[rough basalt]

I need something to eat.

[empty thicket]

No, animated.

[barren badger]

I wish we had some inventors from the early 20th century to tell us which we should use, AC or DC

[vernal owl]

Get pizza

[strong wave]

What does dc mean

[vernal owl]

Ac

[barren badger]

direct current

[undone rain]

Anyway im back in black yall

[severe rampart]

We are not escaping the cannot read allegations.

[fossil hollow]

Difficulty.... I genuinely cant remember

[severe rampart]

Don't worry Ti, did it for you

[glossy otter]

ngl I'm having a thought for my ravenloft campaign but I don't know if I should execute it

[strong wave]

Yeah but what does it mean

[barren badger]

Difficulty Class

[rough basalt]

My guy, I had pizza on Monday. Pizza twice on Tuesday, pizza last night.

[fossil hollow]

thank you other Moth

[severe rampart]

Difficulty Class.

[barren badger]

spelling is hard

[barren badger]

wow. Im just other moth

[rough basalt]

I'm all pizza'd out

I've failed the Pizza DC

But back to dnd, I can't wait for my Monday game

[severe rampart]

"I brought out some takeout, so like let's get down and pig-out" /ref

[barren badger]

No one out pizzas the DC

[undone rain]

Its shredder

[severe rampart]

Where?!

[undone rain]

Classic

[rough basalt]

Could Large Luigi outpizza the Hut?

[barren badger]

I should be prepping...

[shy stirrup]

So the power socket in my car, its a 12V Difficulty Class? 🤔

[severe rampart]

Lmao

[shy stirrup]

I need to roll higher than 12 to not get electrocuted?

[barren badger]

kids these days will never know the pain of burning themselves with that lighter thing

[empty thicket]

The shredder. (insert an image of A Shredder with helmet and cape)

[little stream]

The cape stays on

[severe rampart]

No, you just need the roll + your ability mod and other bonus to be equal to or larger than the DC.

[shy stirrup]

Or maybe just not stick my finger in it
The DM dared me tho

[rough basalt]

I wonder what the save DC is to avoid a job application

[little stream]

DM dared me tho
It's a 9th level spell...do it

[odd valley]

same

[empty thicket]

i want to fail it. 🥀

[glossy otter]

Or the DC to succeed one

[barren badger]

Does air conditioning exist in the forgotten realms

[fossil hollow]

cuz i am the main moth

[odd valley]

20 no bonus

[little stream]

Whats a job. question mark

[barren badger]

it's not even in your...

You're right, you're the main moth

[rough basalt]

You got open windows.

[fossil hollow]

temporarily lost the server tag, all handled now

[barren badger]

magic exists though!

[rough basalt]

FRs technology is pretty funny

They have firearms, printing presses.

[vernal owl]

White dragon breath?

[rough basalt]

But people still think it's lord of the rings

[barren badger]

could you cool down the air with like, druidcraft?

[empty thicket]

yeah, i guess it would

[undone rain]

I wish sacred flame was better

[empty thicket]

Put a coldbrand under some windows or smt like that and let the breeze cool down the place

[barren badger]

clerics deserve an attack spell cantrip

Im expecting us to get one eventually

[odd valley]

“why does shart keep missing the got damn sacred flame!!!”

[odd valley]

toll the dead?

[undone rain]

Exactly

[severe rampart]

Sacred Flame sucks

[barren badger]

thats a save

[empty thicket]

they suffer the problem of having a goated lvl 1 spell list

[undone rain]

You read my mind

[severe rampart]

Clerics are so greedy, us bards don't get anything

[shy stirrup]

Coolio's Portable Air Conditioner
Creates a cube of cold air within 20' of the caster

[severe rampart]

You get Toll the Dead

[empty thicket]

so giving them some good cantrips is... dangerous

[barren badger]

bards literally get EVERY spell

[severe rampart]

AT LEVEL 12

[undone rain]

Bards get everything

[severe rampart]

95% of games don't even make it to that level

[undone rain]

You can be 3 roles at once you got enough

[severe rampart]

And our cantrips? trash

[barren badger]

Dont you get starry wisp now?

[severe rampart]

What do we got? oh we got Starry Whisp? a little vicious mockery?

[barren badger]

guidance?

[humble cairn]

Nope

[barren badger]

True strike i think

[shy stirrup]

insert
Everyone is Dying But You're Just a Bard meme

[humble cairn]

Yep

[vernal owl]

Vicious mockery is pretty cool tho 🥹

[severe rampart]

Oh wow, what do I do with my d8 of radiant damage

while clerics have a d12

[barren badger]

wait bards dont get guidance? oof

[severe rampart]

Lmao I wish

but we got Bardic Inspiration that we get at most RAW? 5 times

[barren badger]

at least VM is no longer a D4

[severe rampart]

*With no magic items, boons, etc.

[humble cairn]

We do get Enhance Ability, I used that one a lot.

[undone rain]

Bards are eh

[severe rampart]

Yeah imagine that

[humble cairn]

I love Bards!

[severe rampart]

How dare you, Bards are amazing

My bard does 7d6 damage a turn without expending spell slots

at level 5

[rough basalt]

The removal of "1d4" damage in 5.5e was good

[humble cairn]

And Damage is the Bard's worst mechanical niche.

[rough basalt]

Other than daggers

[barren badger]

Choosing spells as a bard is one reason that I dont recommend bard to a brand new player.

They can be a powerful class, but it is easy to build a bard that feels like it doesnt do a lot.

[undone rain]

Say bad things of my class i say the same about yours! (Im being petty)

[severe rampart]

Indeed

[severe rampart]

Oh damn, Paladins are so trash, they totally don't get the best class ability Aura of Protection

[rough basalt]

But like VM being a d4 and Monks martial arts being a d4 to start? Good changes

[undone rain]

You said they were eh

[severe rampart]

That was before I played my Farmer

[humble cairn]

Paladins are great, too!

[severe rampart]

It's up there with the charisma casters, I still love Bards.

[rough basalt]

Tbh every class sucks compared to the one standout powerful class above all.

The Commoner class

[severe rampart]

I don't love that the spells are tied to the ability mod.

[barren badger]

Also I just learned that it is disruptive to people who use screen reader technology to send a message with an emoji without context.

It's not something I'd ever thought about, but it makes sense. Thank you moderators!

[shy stirrup]

You choose a Background for:
a) optimization
b) flavor
c) both, if you can

[barren badger]

custom background is RAW, right?

[undone rain]

I gotta stop playing paladins so much

[rough basalt]

I make a story for my character based off their mechanics.

[humble cairn]

Yes, in the free rules and in the DMG, so you might need DM approval.

[undone rain]

Which frontline class shall i play next

[humble cairn]

Barbarian!

[vernal owl]

I got to pick one for both! Since my background gives me proficiencies that use my highest stat, which my actual class couldnt provide (and it makes sense for my character to have)

[rough basalt]

Like I wanted to use the Shadowmasters Exile background from FR so Rowan was a former agent of the Shadowmasters who fell in love with a long term target and tried to run away with him. But they caught up, killed him, so she killed the people involved including her mentor and escaped to the sword coast.

[severe rampart]

Flavor all the way 😋

[undone rain]

What subclass would you recommend. I wish to really do damage

[empty thicket]

Flavor mostly of the time

[twilit sail]

I try to do both

[humble cairn]

2024? Try Berserker.

[undone rain]

Mm we usually play 2014

[severe rampart]

I love tanking, I got down to like 5 hp, I took 32 points of damage for my party members, not a single one of them took a point of damage, Paladins are rad

[rough basalt]

Ah for 2014, Paladin, Fighter are two good choices

[shy stirrup]

Same. Try to have my cake and eat it to, wherever possible. And if not, I often lean towards flavor. I'll optimize some other way 🤷‍♂️

[rough basalt]

Evoker Wizard or a Sorcerer

[humble cairn]

Aww unfortunate. Maybe Giant, or Beast. Those are fun.

[rough basalt]

Oh strictly barbs, yeah Giant or Beast

[undone rain]

Right on, ill check em out

[rough basalt]

Barb unfortunately wasn't well loved in 5e

It got a couple cool ones but a lot of mediocre and bad options.

[severe rampart]

After the tanking I used all my lay on hands points on myself and got ready to tank again

[odd valley]

and path of the beast barb

[severe rampart]

my Paladin might sacrifice himself in battle next session

[undone rain]

Weird, i feel like their one of the big poster boys of fantasy in general

[undone rain]

Like any good paladin does

[severe rampart]

I haven't actually had a character of mine die, so that might be an interesting death.

[rough basalt]

They had some design ideas for barb that were not good

[shy stirrup]

How about Fighter? 💪 If not Barb

[undone rain]

They can work too

[rough basalt]

Like 2014 Berserker and Battlerager avoid with a 10ft pole

[shy stirrup]

Sorry, meant: how about you try Fighter for your frontliner?

[undone rain]

Ah i figured, perhaps i might

[rough basalt]

2014 Berserker I'd say only if you're looking to do a challenge run.

But never Battlerager

Battlerager is just an affront to everything 5e has to offer imo

[shy stirrup]

Often underrated.

Then again I'm biased. Fighters stronk 💪

[undone rain]

They definetly are a good frontliner. Excellent for clearing out enemies or simply distracting em from killing the squishier classes

[rough basalt]

Fighters are fun.

[shy stirrup]

They are!

Except for Champion, I guess

[rough basalt]

They didn't need much changes in 5.5e for their base class

All they got was second wind buffs and indomitable super buff

[shy stirrup]

That's because they stronk 💪 need no buffs

[undone rain]

Their basic but in a good way, their simple to learn, great for new players and still do a good job at what their supposed to do

[rough basalt]

5.5 Indomitable is so nice.

Being able to add your fighter level to the reroll actually makes it worth using.

[shy stirrup]

Fighters a bit like chess, I'd venture to say, easy to learn, difficult to master

[rough basalt]

Since it let's high level fighters pass 20+ saves on their dump stat and lower stats

[undone rain]

Love me some battlemaster in bg3

[rough basalt]

Ye BM in 5.5e barely got touched cause it was already one of the best designed subclasses for fighter.

[shy stirrup]

Apples and oranges, but not for nothing is pure BM Fighter one of the strongest builds for Honor Mode (one save file, permadeath mode)

And yet, I don't often see people in #character-discussion talking Fighters, one of the less popular classes by that metric oh wells

[empty thicket]

yes and no

Fighter is like, fit in every campaign

[shy stirrup]

It does!

[undone rain]

One of the most played classes too

[shy stirrup]

And every setting.

[empty thicket]

and is mostly simple to understand most of the time

[shy stirrup]

There's hardly any world you could come up with that could not include a Fighter

[empty thicket]

or wizard

[shy stirrup]

Yes

[empty thicket]

those 2 are the "Always fit" and "jack of all trades" of DND

[frail wasp]

is that actually true...? i thought monk was the class of choice for honor mode

[glass granite]

Some worlds (though these don’t fit well in dnd) don’t have magic, but every world has an individual that can pick up a stick.

[shy stirrup]

For sure, there's a list of best classes/builds, and BM Fighter is on it

As is TB Monk

[empty thicket]

the thing with fighter and dont being discussed is because Fighter is just THAT simple i guess

[lavish flame]

Monk is nuts for BG3 cuz they have those insane gloves that triple ur unarmed strike damage

[shy stirrup]

It's more complicated than just Bonk
Tho, it can be as simple as that

[frail wasp]

yea

[barren badger]

so many magic items in BG3

I wonder if will set an unrealisitic expectation for new players

[empty thicket]

Yes, its more than just "jaja im going to Kill you." Proceed to do 300 cuts in one second

there is tons of way to play it, but again, simplicity

[shy stirrup]

This is a strength of the class. It scales well with player experience.

[empty thicket]

Yep, i wont know if it help to understand some other things

like positioning and resources management at all

that fighter and other martials dont have too much in deep like casters

[little stream]

my mental image went to jajar binks, idk why

[empty thicket]

500 baboons or 50 gorilas.

[empty thicket]

It scale different that is the problem

some of its scaling depend of the DM giving you good stuff to use

while casters scaling is attached to their spells and choices on them

[shy stirrup]

True, gear dependent, to a degree. But what DM won't reward their players?

Some anti-martial, caster-loving maniac is what

[empty thicket]

Some new Dms or just dont care too much about martials

[shy stirrup]

DMs, hug your martials today

[barren badger]

no

my martials are evil

[empty thicket]

Give them that juicy ring of regeneration

[empty thicket]

Yes but we arent mean.

[barren badger]

stupid weapon juggling.

its not even that powerful, its just dumb

[empty thicket]

what?

[empty thicket]

you mean throwing weapon?

[frail wasp]

no, swapping weapons after every attack

[barren badger]

yes

[frail wasp]

to maximize weapon masterynage

[barren badger]

I think you can also do it while holding your shield too

[empty thicket]

its that even a thing!?

[frail wasp]

well yeah

[rough basalt]

In 5.5 you can draw and stow weapons as part of attacks

[frail wasp]

thats the expectation

[empty thicket]

like, i get it for the masteries, apply SAP, advantage and then some nick weapon

[rough basalt]

As long as you can draw or stow said weapon as part of it.

Like you can't draw a 2 handed weapon while you have a Shield in hand for example.

[frail wasp]

if youre just using one weapon all the time you're only getting one mastery

[rough basalt]

The masteries intend for you to use different weapons.

Or else they would've give the martials that have them several.

And let you change them on long rests.

Like the standard fighter package has Longsword, Flail and Javelin masteries

I think anyway. I'd have to double check

Ah wait no Greatsword

[empty thicket]

yeah, i guess a short, middle and long range are the go to way

[rough basalt]

But each is a different mastery

Greatsword is Graze, Flail is Sap, and Jav is slow

[empty thicket]

Push

[rough basalt]

And you can swap from Greatsword to Flail and back with attack actions.

[barren badger]

Javelin is such an underrrated weapon

[shy stirrup]

It is!

[rough basalt]

Like I'm so glad they made masteries.

[empty thicket]

its the few throw weapon option

[rough basalt]

Makes using multiple weapons encouraged rather than just defaulting to one.

And you can get a bit silly

[shy stirrup]

There are some useful combos for sure

[rough basalt]

Like use a Battleaxe to topple someone then Flail them while their down for advantage then applying disadvantage to their next attack with Sap

Mounted combat got probably the most love in that regard.

Lance being a one handed topple allows for some good combos with other one handed weapons.

[shy stirrup]

In the right hands, it's strength is such that I almost don't know if you should crack open the 2014 MM for it, you need the 2024 MM

[rough basalt]

I never use the 2014 MM

It sits on my shelf collecting dust

[shy stirrup]

Unsure if its really backward compatible with 5.0 statblocks dunno

[rough basalt]

2024 PCs are much stronger at low levels

[shy stirrup]

Yea...

[rough basalt]

But more reigned in at higher levels

[shy stirrup]

Why can't we have both? Sigh.

[rough basalt]

When I use old statblocks I typically max out the hp and give them prof/expertise in initiative

But I never use the 2014 MM

[fossil hollow]

i updated the DUergar to 2024 once

[rough basalt]

I usually just use the generic statblocks for people.

[empty thicket]

or handcrossbow (vex) to change into a longsword or greatsword

[rough basalt]

Tho I used them to make custom for my factions to be more specific.

Like an armies primarily orc fighters have a BA dash.

I think my favorite thing tho is applying pack tactics to organized people statblocks

[shy stirrup]

Pack Tactics are, as they say in a certain line of business, a force multiplier

[woven flint]

Kobbo

[rough basalt]

Like for Draconian Soldiers (one such faction) they're very good fighters as a group

Using group tactics.

[shy stirrup]

Getting your sword stuck in one as it turns to stone when you killed it aint fun either

[rough basalt]

But the orc fighter people (Uldrobradian Soldiers) rely on unrelenting, overwhelming force like a Tidal Wave of warriors.

Same pack tactics mechanically but different flavor.

[glad ferry]

The revels end chat seems interesting enough to show a ban number

[rough basalt]

It's a net to catch bots.

[glad ferry]

Git it

I was just looking through the random chats there are here

[rough basalt]

Or my favorite Arcanum Soldiers (magic infantry) their pack tactics comes from illusion magic built into their armor that when two or more are around it feels like you're being attacked by much more, making you more liable to screw up.

[empty thicket]

welp, its good until the enemy do a warning shot and find out half of your army is smoke

[lavish flame]

super cool

[rough basalt]

That gives me an idea for a strategy for them to use lorewise.

Make a small force look bigger than once they're discovered stealth forces attack from a flank.

[glad ferry]

"Supposed to be stealthing" i want to send a fireball against the castle walls

[twilit sail]

Bad

[rough basalt]

There's definitely main mages designed for traditional warfare

But the worlds current state is very cold warish

[little stream]

You mean someone could have fire hands and kill them silently?! Hell yeah

[rough basalt]

Nobody wants to trigger a big war again but stuff happens in the shadows and in dangerous parts of the world where plausible deniability

[karmic junco]

Yall one of my players did it, they started a romance with an npc!! Its so funny lol

[lavish flame]

no better state for a D&D world to be in imo

[humble cairn]

Magical spies!

[glad ferry]

The pigeons are the kingdoms spies

[empty thicket]

you know what can be a problem

that "Big army" have few tents and stuff like that

so if the players are aware

[rough basalt]

Yeah originally the world was gonna be such a bad and honestly problematic mess without realizing it but I talked about it with DM Steve about it way back and he pointed out the shouldve been obvious bad stuff and took it back to the drawing board and I'm very happy with my setting work as it is now and so far

[empty thicket]

"where they put those 300 soldiers if there is like 10 tents only"

[lavish flame]

you joke, but an espionage agency consisting of Awakened birds sounds absolutely awesome for a druidic/nature-oriented civilization

[hot marlin]

See, this is where I often clash with worldbuilding. When you say "nobody wants to trigger a big war again", it feels like it needs an explanation.

[humble cairn]

Steve's a real one!

[hot marlin]

Because people do often want to trigger big wars.

In Germany people were counting the days until "the day" the first world war would start, with excited anticipation

[rough basalt]

Oh what I moreso meant was the people in charge, but thats constantly being challenged

[glad ferry]

The players can cause the trigger even if you dont intend for it to happen lol

[twilit sail]

The players assassinate archduke franz ferdinand

[rough basalt]

Like in Draconia, Empress Asuka wants peace and to forgive Arcanum for nearly destroying the world because they didn't willingly support their country in the war (enchantment rune magic placed on everyone to protect them from "enemy spies that'd use magic to control them") But her country is now broken up into pieces cause her brother wants revenge, he wants to conquer Arcanum while they're weakened and basically outlaw Arcane magic above a certain point (5th level to put a mechanical number to it)

[glad ferry]

Most of my characters fall into neutral, chaotic good, nuetral good

[empty thicket]

Can justify it that many things, bad things were discovered

[twilit shell]

Damn is that what she got up to after neon genesis evangelion

[empty thicket]

or put a faction that is like, the most dangerous to go against in war

[glad ferry]

The faction that can tip it depending on what side they're pushed to. Allies or enemies even if small

[empty thicket]

The only fears i can get from not wanting a "big WAR" are either. You know that if it start can be something bad, but bad to let everything like a wasteland

or there was tons of wars and now its a Peace Era

[glad ferry]

Big wars also lead to lots of deaths, restarts and let's civilization also begin again and often brings people out of debt

[empty thicket]

That or the last war ended before every faction used their most powerful weapons

[hot marlin]

I don't understand this sentence

[rough basalt]

Draconia is a mix of French and Japanese cultural influence, given names are usually Hanamoran (Hanamori was what Draconia was in ancient times) and surnames are usually Caelian (Caelum being a france-like land that's people migrated to Hanamori during the War of the Gods)

[lavish flame]

Part of me thinks that this would be a catalyst for more war tbh

[glad ferry]

Don't let it end up like Canada where the candadians dont like the French Canadians lol

[rough basalt]

My worlds war ended cause basically a mad mageking wished for "all of his enemies to be buried beneath his feet" and some god made sure it happened

[lean wigeon]

im kobold

[glad ferry]

At what cost?

[rough basalt]

How did it happen? Sea levels rose until most of the world was underwater. All that remained were more high altitude countries. So they got buried, including a lot of his own people.

[woven flint]

I hope you're all doing well 🧐

[glad ferry]

Always tokii

[woven flint]

Yes, always Tokii 😎 /silly

[rough basalt]

It also acts as bit of a lore reason for wish's monkey pawing if you ask out of scope

Basically the Goddess of Magic immediately shuts you down or punishes you before someone else may grant said wish.

Like theres an Efreeti that acts as a wandering merchant and if she uses her wish spell, the goddess of magic teleports her to the farthest possible point from where she was, or a magic anvil appears above her head and drops on her. It's cartoonish but the goddess of magic is depicted to be kind of childish.

[hot marlin]

By "the farthest possible point"...Are you saying the other side of the planet?

[rough basalt]

Like if she's in the capital of arcanum, she'll end up in the middle of the Salvaggia Jungle in Avennia on the other side of the planet which is where the dinosaurs are

She usually picks places that will annoy the efreeti to be plopped into

[empty thicket]

A faction discovered either dark forces that would be unleashed against their enemies (clueless of the risks), chemical, biological weapons, more uncanny tactics or important info was discovered and if it was used would unleashed a lot more of consequences

[rough basalt]

I didnt think much on it initially, I got bored when i was drawing up their lore and went back to working on my blood magic i think

[cloud bison]

where are the 5.5e random encounter tables?

[fossil hollow]

the only one we have rn are the ones in the Forgotten Realms books