dnd-discussion

[fresh laurel]

i got it thanks!

but i still think thats kinda high to reroll

[blissful ibex]

It's below average

[fresh laurel]

anyway i don't make games

[indigo valley]

Ohh that's a lot lmao.

[glossy otter]

Ngl that is impressive

[fresh laurel]

but 12 bigger than 10.5 expected value

[blissful ibex]

Average would be ~12.25 on 4d6/drop lowest
so 74 if rounding up

[fresh laurel]

18 if its with d6

sorry

[crimson gulch]

Yep, full time DM

[shy stirrup]

@crimson gulch I think what they really want to know is your style, what links each of these adventures

[fresh laurel]

11.5 if its with d6

[blissful ibex]

12.25 specifically if it's 4d6 drop lowest

[fresh laurel]

hmm i didn't think about the removing smallest number

[crimson gulch]

all my games are Action Packed and Dangerous, ran Rules as Written with my expert preformance of the world the NPC's and Villians

[shy stirrup]

Key word: dangerous.
(at least for me)

[crimson gulch]

i have 31 PC kills so far this year

[shy stirrup]

Slacker

[fresh laurel]

if the average expected value is 3.5 froman average d6 we gotta use random distrubution graph
thats kinda interesting to think aboht thanks for giving me a new hyperfixation to think about

[blissful ibex]

One of my DMs has killed one player twice and another one once in just my table this year c:

And we're not even the CoS table

[crimson gulch]

thats with 109 sessions ran this year so .28 kills per session

[crimson gulch]

i killed one player 3 times in one session this year

[blissful ibex]

Sounds like they need to work on character building skills, party comps, and possibly also tatics

[shy stirrup]

Sometimes, you can make no mistakes and still lose

[blissful ibex]

But if it's happening repeatedly, you're likely making mistakes somewhere along the line XD

[indigo valley]

Do you have a fav character?

[crimson gulch]

they do, these are players that have been playing at my table for years, its not a skill issue on their part, its the Dice deciding who lives and died

Open rolls, No cheating the dice

[rough basalt]

The dice are out to kill players I swear.

[crimson gulch]

yep, especially my orange one]

[rough basalt]

Last session, the hellhounds the soldiers were using kept recharging their fire breath

Just like the previous session, the Mind Flayer kept recharging Mind Blast

[crimson gulch]

if my dragons breath had regarged one more time in tyrrany of dragons a few weeks ago i would have TPK'd the party

[rough basalt]

I think I've succeeded on recharge more this campaign than failed.

Which doesn't bode well for the next encounter.

[glossy otter]

Wait, I do wonder if they'll make a reference to Vecna and Kas for Ravenloft

[warm meadow]

Hopefully, the next encounter will go smoothly, too

[barren badger]

I've really grown to LOVE open dice rolls, as both a player and a DM

[rough basalt]

Yes. More damage on my players.

Hope I keep recharging the big attack.

[indigo wing]

Damn! Ouch

Wait as in u killed 31 pcs (as the dm) or u lost them (as a player)

[warm meadow]

Now the boss fight is no longer going to be on easy mode

[shy stirrup]

Rolling behind the screen or rolling in the open each have their advantages, the former was the default style in ye olden days, the latter in the modern game; and there's no reason you can't find some balance between the two that suits you as a DM and your players

[rough basalt]

Oh I never run easy mode. At least intentionally

I roll 100% openly cause it's more fun.

[shy stirrup]

Fun for you
Fun for me 🤷‍♂️

Fun for everyone? 🤔

[rough basalt]

So far I'm at 3 PCs concerning 5.x specifically in my Graveyard for this year.

[shy stirrup]

I use a hastag graveyard channel on my campagin Discord chan, even if empty, it serves a purpose

[rough basalt]

Ye I have a forum channel in mine for PCs/Monsters who deserve to be remembered.

Whether it's death, or successfully finishing the adventure for example.

Had to remove 1 from a finishing adventure category.

Cause dude got toxic with me in dms after the session.

I'll keep PCs of players who left for their reasons, or had to remove for amicable reasons, but people like that I don't need to remember.

As for the Monsters, I memorialize monsters who kill PCs or standout in some way.

Like there's a zombie in there that lasted 3 rounds against a level 5 party by himself cause he kept rolling 20s on Undead Fortitude and they kept rolling min damage.

[crimson gulch]

Me too, I refuse to be a player at a table without open rolls

[blissful ibex]

Zombie who randomly got possessed by a high tier servant of Ilmater for a good 20 seconds

[timber cove]

i use a mix of open and closed rolls

my players dont seem to care one way or the other

[shy stirrup]

Does the open roll crowd feel its a matter of DM fudging, and you'd rather know how the cookie crumbles?

[blissful ibex]

To be fair; closed rolls are better for certain things; like Stealth and the sensory skills c:

[shy stirrup]

Even a mostly open roller DM will choose to do some rolls behind the screen, ofc

[blissful ibex]

It's really funny when you think you're being all sneaky, meanwhile you rolled n 8 or some shit

[shy stirrup]

I mostly roll behind the screen, occasionally in front of it as appropriate

[crimson gulch]

my dice tray is where everyone can see

my online games instantly show my dice on owlbear

[shy stirrup]

My dice tray is a black box

inside a black hole

[crimson gulch]

mine is up on a box

[craggy summit]

There's a time for closed and open rolls

[timber cove]

i made a point of open rolling for the last fight i ran because there were so many monsters it was just easier to fire off a bunch of successive attack rolls on the map

[shy stirrup]

Yea, like I said, each has their advantages, its a matter of style/preference, both are equally valid methods

[crimson gulch]

nah, with closed rolls you can easily break the trust at the table and that ruins games

[craggy summit]

90% of rolls can be closed, 10% is important rolls that you want your players to see and so they know you aren't fudging. An example could be an insight/investigation check when the player has a GREAT idea

[timber cove]

i think the risk is if they catch you fudging a closed roll you lose all your tension

[craggy summit]

Sometimes you gotta fudge rolls tho, I was running a campaign where an enemy hit a nat 20 on a character and the average damage was enough to kill them TWICE so I had to make it a miss, because it was literally the first session

[crimson gulch]

im Firmly against Fudging Dice rolls Hit points and other stuff

[craggy summit]

Atleast for me, idk I don't think killing players is fun

[crimson gulch]

no, i kill that player every time in that situation

[shy stirrup]

You can say I prefer open rolls, insist on it, even, but you can't convince me that behind the screen rolls are invalid, or bad. As for the risks, every choice in this game, above and on table, carries risk, a DM's job is to manage that risk

[craggy summit]

Dang that's brutal 😅 but I can respect the hardcore dm-ness

[crimson gulch]

every time i have killed a player in their first session they have Locked in HARD and became long term players

[timber cove]

that's interesting

[crimson gulch]

im Stating my opinion, you can do what you want with it. i am so firmly against hidden rolls i refuse to play with a dm that rolls behind the screen

[timber cove]

that's you perogative

[shy stirrup]

The player always has a veto

[timber cove]

im glad my group doesnt care

[crimson gulch]

natural 40 games are Exeptional events where we Laugh Cry and Sometimes Die

[craggy summit]

In my opinion, I feel there's a time and place for which rolls are visible and not. I can understand only open rolls to make sure there's no fudging and it's maximum brutality and no pulled punches tho 😅

[shy stirrup]

To fudge, or not to fudge, this is the question

[crimson gulch]

easy answere, no

[timber cove]

i think not fudging is a little more exciting

character death should happen

[craggy summit]

But me myself, I enjoy when my players have fun. And if they do something REALLY creative, but the NPC rolled a nat 20 to stop it, I'll fudge sometimes and say it was a low number, to let them have their moment yk? It's not often but I do it from time to time

[shy stirrup]

On this we agree

[crimson gulch]

i dont, if my player casts a wish and my enemy has a counterspell, i lock eyes with the player and say, thats a 9th level spell, they have plus 5 to this roll, on a 14 or higher they counterspell your wish.

and then i roll

in the open

[mystic crystal]

Had a dm that got caught fudging his roles for his girlfriend and then somehow crit my character 3 times in a row and then kill my character. Needless to say I don’t play with that guy anymore

[shy stirrup]

Needless to say, yes

Or at least, I should hope you don't

[craggy summit]

That's fine too 🙂‍↕️ every DM runs their game a lil different

[crimson gulch]

yes, and i love helping people run better games, im writing a book on the topic

[shy stirrup]

It would be a boring hobby indeed if every DM presented the same game

[craggy summit]

I probably should find some books or articles that do that 👀

[mystic crystal]

My tables uses a box of doom like system. Really important rolls are done in the view of everyone and we all get a kick out of it.

Everything is done behind the scenes

[barren badger]

Actually, there is one dice roll that is blind to my players

||their death saving throws||

[mystic crystal]

Death saving rolls?

Neat

[barren badger]

Mhm! They only know if a character is dead once they check on them

[crimson gulch]

very few times do death saving throws matter in my games, most PC deaths are Executions

[shy stirrup]

Suspensful.

[mystic crystal]

Do you roll for your players or they roll and send the outcome to you?

[barren badger]

This explains the 31 deaths

[barren badger]

I use foundry, so they click roll, but they cant see the result

and i can reveal them later

[crimson gulch]

every monster out there thats survived for any lenght of time, knows that a sigle word can bring up a KO adventurere and you gotta double tap

[mystic crystal]

The pc that’s down can’t see the result?

[barren badger]

None of the PCs can. So they cant say things like, "Well hes got two death saving throws left. He will probably be fine"

[mystic crystal]

As the player rolling the saves that would frustrate me.

[barren badger]

It can be frustrating, yes :]

[mystic crystal]

But I get hiding it from the rest if the table

[shy stirrup]

hidden death saving throws cause players to go from:
"Bob will be fine."
"Bob could die any minute! Somebody do something!"

[barren badger]

It's something I talked with the party about before the campaign started and they were all okay with it

[crimson gulch]

not if you have enough monsters ready to double tap, you get the second one all the time

[mystic crystal]

Yeah to each the their own every table has their own rules

[warm meadow]

Yeah, that's true, everyone does things their own way

[empty thicket]

indeed

mine have the rule of some feats give Opportunity attacks and some enemies have them

because they think that having to waste an Action Disengage feel awful and it leave more fast and open combats

not a "standing there and hit each other" all the day

[fair plinth]

Ive noticed that the monster manual only has the mind flayer, the intellect devourer, and some misc enemies related to mind flayers, is there a book that can sum up how mind flayers and their colonies operate?

[scenic zinc]

You'd need to look at pre 5e books for that kind of lore

5e has progressively moved away from being definitive about such things

[fair plinth]

Gotcha thx

[stiff rock]

mordenkainen's monsters of the multiverse and volo's guide to monsters i believe both have good information about mind flayer colonies

[scenic zinc]

Keep in mind that those particular sections are written as observational in-universe assumptions being made by those respective characters

[stiff rock]

furthermore, the FR wiki has information from all sources

[scenic zinc]

And while mordenkainen is a more reputable source, he's certainly not always correct

[hollow estuary]

Dude theirs so many art scammers in this server 😭

[rough basalt]

He's a lot more reputable than the other source at least.

[hollow estuary]

Yeah definently

[timid anvil]

If you want to report an art scammer please ask for a private thread in #moderator-support and we can take a look at it :)

[hollow estuary]

if DND had playstation achievements what would they be?

Come up with good ones.

Example:
silver trophy
Rock Top.
" Reach the zenith of chronias, the highest heaven. "

[minor cargo]

Haha you know that bingo card people talk about here? Each of those could be one tbqh.

[uneven stone]

golden trophy
congrats
"you made the DM cry"

bronze trophy
okay thats enough
"keep rolling damage dice for 1 solid minute"

[frosty sequoia]

Yeah, no.

[twilit sail]

Its what my character would do

• Be unanimously kicked out of the party

[twilit sail]

P sure thats a joke

[errant crag]

I resolve this by just gambling on whether or not the enemies' opportunity attacks will hit me

[uneven stone]

bronze trophy
whats wrong with you??
"attempt to lick a cursed item"

[errant crag]

And leaving without disengaging

[frosty sequoia]

From what I've seen s ince returning, no, optimization: spread sheets... is the new play

it's the fault of YT DMs

[twilit sail]

They use spreadsheets but they dont optimize?

Oh

[frosty sequoia]

I would think spread sheets are part of the process of achieving 'optimum' characters.

[empty thicket]

"like nothing happened"
Finish a mission without killing someone or triggering an alert.

[frosty sequoia]

But again, all this is the fault of DMs want to be popular online and monetize

[errant crag]

Most of what I've seen is people making roleplay driven characters without much regard for optimization

[twilit sail]

Are char sheets already decorated spreadsheets?

[frosty sequoia]

give them what they want.

[uneven stone]

people really shouldnt forget there is more to dnd than combat

[errant crag]

You gotta get off D&D YouTube

[frosty sequoia]

so it's more roll play than role play

[errant crag]

This is not the case in most 5e games it's only the case in the D&Dtube sphere

[fast latch]

My Mom doesn’t know how a d100 works

She thinks rolling a 00 is always 100

[empty thicket]

"its not your day"
Roll 3 nat1 consecutive

[hollow estuary]

Roll play ❌ Roleplay ❌ Roll to play ✅

I love getting 2 18s on my stat rolls 🤑

" Nice rolls, but no. " - My Dm.

[twilit sail]

This isnt rlly true

[frosty sequoia]

I tell my players they can cheat on their ability scores

[uneven stone]

it IS your day
the same but nat 20

[frosty sequoia]

tdoesn't matter. i can still kill them

or they can still kill themselves

[hollow estuary]

Oh guys, you can make a extra attack, its just their immune.

actually try 100.

[fast latch]

Classic Champions: Complete a campaign with a Human Fighter, Dwarf Cleric, Elf Wizard, and Halfling Rogue

[empty thicket]

"Good idea, bad luck"
Plan something and get nat1
"Bad idea, good luck"
Try something dumb and get nat20

[hollow estuary]

GOOD ONE

[frosty sequoia]

I only ever play a Drow Rogue/Assassin/Thief

Best class

[uneven stone]

urgh, fine
solve a puzzle by just punching shit until something happens

[frosty sequoia]

I had one like that

[fast latch]

Thanks

[frosty sequoia]

my traps are insidious

and engineered

[twilit sail]

I cast find traps

Wait that spells bad

[fast latch]

Tiamat’s Hated: Slay one of every color of Chromatic Dragon

[frosty sequoia]

won't work. there is no single completed trap

[hollow estuary]

Never [cast] again.

[twilit sail]

Thas interestin

[empty thicket]

"Turtle won this time"
Go first in the round having the lowest bonus initiative of the party

[frosty sequoia]

they're cascade traps, CC

[rough basalt]

Yeah it's a big problem

[frosty sequoia]

one t hing happens there, that sets off that thing over there

[empty thicket]

"rabbit lose again"
Having the biggest bonus imitative be last

[uneven stone]

no
"have your dm just straight up refuse your plan because it was complete and utter bullshit"

[fast latch]

Goodb-Eye, Tyrant
Slay a Beholder

[empty thicket]

we can write down a whole book of "achievements" ngl

[hollow estuary]

better idea achievement name.

" There Be Dragons "

• ' Slay the ancient forms of every true dragon. '

[frosty sequoia]

If dragons are played correctly, they cannot be defeated

[empty thicket]

And i could copy some from Darkest Dungeon too
"first of many"
Slay your first boss

[uneven stone]

true, i gotta go now tho, glhf with more achievements

[frosty sequoia]

my world is based on dragons ruling everything

[fast latch]

Bye

[frosty sequoia]

and everyone

[uneven stone]

the level 20 mf casting true polymorph:

[hollow estuary]

" eXPerienced. "

• Reach level 2.

[fast latch]

“I wish for X the Dragon’s soul to be destroyed”

ggs

[frosty sequoia]

IF you have the spell.

spells aren't just given in my world by book experience

[hollow estuary]

DO NOT WISH FOR THIS 💀

that is a cataclysmically bad wish .

[frosty sequoia]

your spell knowledge is based on your school

and its proficiency

[uneven stone]

gg, it is now an illithid dragon, make a wis save.

[fast latch]

Just be a Genie Warlock and your Patron will give you the spell on your list

[frosty sequoia]

Every other spell you didn't learn has to be discovered, learned or purchased

Doesn't exist in my world, Aeon... whatever that is

[hollow estuary]

Okay so if its a mettalic dragon it might work out but if you do this to a chromatic dragon you doom the world.

[fast latch]

Genies don’t exist?

[frosty sequoia]

nope. neither do most ethereal things

[fast latch]

Interesting

[frosty sequoia]

it's a 'wild west' world

[hollow estuary]

Genies are elementals

[fast latch]

So no Ghosts, no Liches?

[frosty sequoia]

tso the top guns would have eliminated most big bads on their way to being the biggest bad

no ghosts

there are undead

no fey of any kind

[hollow estuary]

Right so if you "Destroy" the concept of a dragons soul, you pretty much doom the world because chromatic dragons are so connected to the element they breathe to the point where they are comparable to elementals in their affinity for its use.

So if you just completely destroy a ancient black dragons soul the concept of "Acid" will be severely disrupted as that will literally just end all life.

[frosty sequoia]

don't see why.

[hollow estuary]

Amino acids.

pretty much everyone will be genetically deformed and have sickle cell anemia

[frosty sequoia]

nah

[twilit sail]

I want to run a char who is a proto oil magnate now...

[crimson gulch]

Woot, got a package waiting for me at the shop, materials directly from WOTC for the season of horror

[frosty sequoia]

was reading about that. sounds fun

going through all the new stuff to see what 'fits' in my world

most of it does not

so far

ah well. dog walk time!

[crimson gulch]

im 8 sessions deep into a curse of strahd campaign so its going right in

and im gonna sprinkle in horror all over

[twilit sail]

Thats lovely

[hollow estuary]

whats your favorite magic item?

[crimson gulch]

Deck of many things

[hollow estuary]

why? this seems like a cool favorite

[errant crag]

Urizt are you going to GenCon

[crimson gulch]

it is an unforgettable experience every time, life and death on the line

[crimson gulch]

nope

[errant crag]

I wonder if I'll run into any gamers from this server there

[south prawn]

I considered going. I've lived here my whole life and have yet to go...

[hollow estuary]

god my favorite is the broom of flying, its a uncommon magic item and it has saved me so many times.

[crimson gulch]

I'm not traveling to the USA for any reason for the foreseeable future

[hollow estuary]

Fair, you in europe?

[crimson gulch]

Canada

[hollow estuary]

Ah, okay yeah that makes sense.

[crimson gulch]

And I'm in general not that interested in conventions, the last time I was involved with one I lost money.

I would have to cancel 3 to 4 hundred bucks worth of paid sessions to go and maby make half that with con games

[delicate owl]

Not a fan of cons overall myself, just not as big of a social butterfly as others it seems.

[hollow estuary]

I just started to notice that most extraplanars dont have the return to their home plane trait.

does this mean they just die when killed?

[delicate owl]

Or I just hate being shoved into one building with hundreds of people in the same room lol

[crimson gulch]

I'm probably going to run a couple epic one shots the weekend of Gen con though

[hollow estuary]

is the demogorgon the strongest demon prince? looking at the statblock it looks like orcus and demo are really close in power

[crimson gulch]

I honestly would say orcus, based on their printing in MOTM

[minor cargo]

When Big Bad Con was last run in San Francisco, it was amazing! They had the BIMPOC lounge and BIMPOC focused networking events.

I actually met so many folks in the community, shared info, and set up new projects and stuff.

I know it was EXHAUSTING for a ton of folks to be “on” like that for so long, but it was a really valuable experience.

[hot marlin]

Demogorgon is really scary buuut... Orcus with the wand is borderline invincible

[minor cargo]

I’d be curious about GenCon, but I don’t particularly hear positive things from the people I’ve talked to who have gone.

[hollow estuary]

yeah thought so

Orcus is constantly hungry for power and slaughter, how come he hasent just smashed demos face in with his mace?

[hot marlin]

So without the wand, Orcus loses to Demogorgon, though it's close. With the wand? I don't think there's a single statblock in D&D who can stand up to him

[hot marlin]

1. The wand constantly gets stolen
2. The problem is that it's never a 1v1 in the Abyss

[hollow estuary]

never a 1v1

ik that orcus could summon like 30 dracoliches

[rough basalt]

I'd like to go to a Con at some point.

I haven't yet cause I used to be unable to handle crowds but after 2 NFL games in packed stadiums crowds aren't bothering me anymore lol.

[minor cargo]

You can also find smaller cons. Those can be really fun!

[hollow estuary]

Also fun fact if you reach the top of celestia you die but in a really cool way, I experienced this firsthand.

[lilac plover]

does anyone even do dnd online

[ripe nimbus]

lotsa people

[idle oar]

Yes many folks do using Virtual Tabletops (VTTs) or voice chats or other online tools

[timber cove]

i dont play currently but im thinking about it

[rough basalt]

Yeah might be best for my first one lol

[hollow estuary]

I do. yeah.

I go to AL events in person or play with my friends online

[hot marlin]

Consider the fact that Demogorgon has his own armies, and the fact that those are two different layers of the abyss, with multiple other layers between them.

[severe fox]

points to #looking-for-players

I would be hesatant to call what demogorgon has "armies" more or less just things that like to fight

[hollow estuary]

You won this argument GG! 🤝

anyway uh yeah, zaphkiel or asmodeus who wins.

[severe fox]

Demons are like they dont know/want to work togehter

[hot marlin]

Arguments are not something to be won or lost. Only understood.

[severe fox]

Even Asmodeus knows that the blood war if all the demons were to some how come together they could over take hell or at least the first layer

Power in numbers and all that

[hot marlin]

Quantity has indeed a quality of its own

[severe fox]

I cant remember the exact number but I think it was like for every devil its like 100 demons

[torpid hound]

"I have a succubus girlfriend"
Circus music starts playing

[severe fox]

bad/good idea succubus/inccubus play for both sides of the blood war as fiends but they are originally from the abyss

[buoyant oar]

I disagree and here's why you're wrong and I'm right..../s

[zinc hare]

I just dreamed up a horror session/ monster for my party

And I was the one who had to deal with it all last night

[twilit sail]

That sounds like an anime title

[torpid hound]

No that would be way longer

[severe fox]

I was reincarnated in to a D&D world and I have a succubus girlfriend

[buoyant oar]

That would be the anime title before the colon

[torpid hound]

That's better

[torpid mesa]

im making a diy dice tower!

[shadow trail]

I think one of the most hilarious moments I've ever had in d&d. Was rolling for the stats,.
And getting four 17s
1 12, and a 6

17, 6, 17, 12, 17, 17

[hot marlin]

I'd take that even with that six.

Doesn't matter. Put that into dex as a paladin. Put that into charisma as a monk. Put that into wisdom as a sorcerer. Into strength as a wizard.

[severe fox]

thats gonna be a -3 in one of your stats but hot damn

[hot marlin]

Four seventeens? That is just crazy.

Have a monk that starts with 19 dex, 18 wisdom, 17 constitution, 17 strength, 12 intelligence, 6 charisma.

[severe fox]

18 in ac..

[hot marlin]

Crazy saves, crazy HP.

[empty thicket]

bro have social anxiety at that point

He evade social interactions

[hot marlin]

Charisma saves are ever so slightly rarer than intelligence saves. From a purely optimizational point of view, that character would be slightly better off dumping int

[severe fox]

Int saves can be very debilitating if you fail them more often then not

[hot marlin]

Yeah, last thing you want is to face an illithid when having a bad int save

[sturdy niche]

especially if you are within grappling range, then your brain is basically gunna probably become a smoothie

[twilit shell]

Jokes on them, it's already liquid in there

[sturdy niche]

lol, i'm sure they will appreciate the premade meal all the same as long as it meets their needs, which basically just requires you to be a sentient humanoid

[empty thicket]

yeah, normally charisma is there for all the interactions

there is few if not none save of it

[sleek cloud]

Anyone have any ideas for a gnome wizard last name? First name is Orziver

[empty thicket]

unless the DM want to connect Charisma with character

[meager seal]

…

[empty thicket]

meaning people will take you more seriously and will doubt less of you

[twilit shell]

does 3 int qualify as sentient

[empty thicket]

Feuerball

[sturdy niche]

lol, should make for a fun character at least, dexterous, perceptive, sturdy, strong, slightly above average intelligent, but blunt as a battering ram XD

[empty thicket]

bro is less smart than a raven

[empty thicket]

yeah that too, someone that is too honest and blunt with his words

[sturdy niche]

honestly would be a miracle if you could even speak, plus as i recall 3 and less is usually where thing become to "dumb" for lack of a better word, for them to sense

[twilit shell]

Yeah this was a half hill giant goliath with brain damage. He put the fun in dysfunctional. Bless his heart

[empty thicket]

speak in the most dummy way possible

[calm cobalt]

Hey guys, anyone ever played the pugilist class? is it any good?

[little stream]

Pug? Good breed really

[sturdy niche]

well 4 is usually the limit of such people, so he is basically dumber than the typical "dumb henchment" trope who has 0 education, abstract concepts way beyond your ability to understand ^^;

[twilit shell]

terrible snouts

[empty thicket]

and even would put a happy face seeing the wizard casting spells and call him amazing and how he do that funny "big warm ball"

[empty thicket]

heard its good. Not gamebreaking

[sturdy niche]

honestly i find AJ Pickett's lore videos breaking down the intelligence and more recently charisma properly, game changing, definitely changes how you think of such things beyond what people just assume

like after watching them i can't imagine not using them as a reference point or resource for characters i play, even my goblin barbarian who basically has a 12 or 13 in most if not all mental stats, those vids and him taking the time to answer my questions about them in that specific context, very helpful

[barren badger]

This is my first time reading through it and it feels like there's a lot going on here

Though generally I'm relatively skeptical about third party content

[knotty vine]

someone slightly opened my eyes to how annoying slivery barbs can be

[empty thicket]

in which way?

[knotty vine]

Let's set this back in 2014 for a second. Say an enemy you're fighting has magic resistance, and you cast a big spell. They roll an 18 and then a 5, so they take the 18 If you SB that, then the creature gets a 15; they have to take the 5.

[fresh laurel]

oh boy thats a weird topic

[knotty vine]

So any creature with advantage against spells and such would go from advantage to super disadvantage for a level 1 spell slot

[fresh laurel]

ai says stats goes all the way to 30 is that true? i mostly see 20 at max

[empty thicket]

Oh....

[knotty vine]

stats can go to 30 but thats very rare

[empty thicket]

so its literally turn the advantage into... wow....

[knotty vine]

Since SB makes you take the lowest roll

[fresh laurel]

is that like god level? like the god level

[knotty vine]

Pretty much

20 in any stat is neigh super human

[empty thicket]

so its not only the "i will use SB for repeat this roll and save myself or an ally" but you could literally turn any advantage of the enemy into a giga disadvantage...

[empty thicket]

yeah, the closest to a god lets say

or the "best" of your race

Literally the magnus opus of X

[knotty vine]

but again getting 30 in one stat is pretty much impossible without the help of a magic item

[empty thicket]

or many other things

aka, blessings from gods or who knows what more

[knotty vine]

the only thing im aware of that can increase your stats without a set cap are the books

And even then your class if your class didnt give you that one thing you'd have to wait 100 years to use the book again

[hot marlin]

Uh... You ever think that some families in the Forgotten Realms sometimes fight about resurrection?

[knotty vine]

maybe

[hot marlin]

Like, say, a family with a kid that died of a fever, some wanting to resurrect the kid, others arguing that it's not worth selling everything they own and ruining their lives savings for that

[barren badger]

and if two people have have silvery barbs, it can be super super disadvantage

[knotty vine]

thats only if the creature passed the save but yeah

[barren badger]

if/when it gets reprinted, I'm expecting it to get a bit of a rework. Especially since lucky is quite different now

I feel like the designers are moving away from allowing additional rolls outside of advantage/disadvantage

[knotty vine]

Possiblely

[empty thicket]

the thing would be, they didnt gave everything up at first for cure him

[knotty vine]

But seeing that made me understand why people bad sb more as much as I still dont ban it

[hot marlin]

I'm just now realizing that diamond counterfeiting to prey on grieving people must be a huge business in Faerûn...

[hot marlin]

When it comes to young people, death from a sickness can be very quick and unexpected.

[empty thicket]

or they didnt knew they could get X help in magic

[knotty vine]

I doubt a cleric is gonna waste there time reviving some poor random child

[hot marlin]

A cleric who gets paid for it, why not?

It's an honest way to earn money

[empty thicket]

that too, they would need to sell everything and more

[knotty vine]

Most clerics arent in it for the money??

[hot marlin]

Clerics still need money.

[sturdy niche]

depending on the deity, and the setting, though one still typically needs living expenses, and not every cleric is part of a clergy that can provide that espeically if they are off adventuring

[hot marlin]

You need to pay your workers to build a church

[empty thicket]

Yep and they still would accept "donations" in their churchs and help people through it

[knotty vine]

pretty sure thats cities job and what not

[twilit sail]

Yo chat opinions on fun paladin subclasses i want to run one tmrw

[barren badger]

I think the soul generally needs to return to the body too. I dont know if most clerics would revive random people

[barren badger]

genie!

[twilit sail]

Huh ok

thats a warlock subclass im fairly sure

[knotty vine]

I still think its funny that people can just refuse to return to there body

[knotty vine]

you a 2014 player?

[sturdy niche]

random? no, seemingly random, maybe, they will usually have a reason that will make it seem random to those on the outside looking in

[twilit sail]

Its a 2014 game im applying for

[hot marlin]

Most clerics probably are not powerful enough to cast resurrection. Those who can... Well, again. You always need money. If you can spare the spell slot, and the component is provided, why not? It's basically free money

[knotty vine]

Oath breaker

[barren badger]

Oath of the Noble Genies

Oh, 2014? nevermind then

[sturdy niche]

oath of noble geneis is 2024/5.5e and forgotten realms specific technically at least as presented

[empty thicket]

Yep, maybe a kid dont want to came back to his body because he feel he is a waste of time for his parents or he thinks he is a disappointing to them.
So the party would need to show in some way the opposite

[knotty vine]

"basically free money" "gem worth 300gp"

[barren badger]

resurrection is 1000gold diamond i think

[hot marlin]

"the component is provided".

[knotty vine]

also if you bring back that sick child your only extending the time that they are sick

[barren badger]

i think its a lot cheaper to just have another kid

[empty thicket]

Some churches maybe embrace death, others not so much.
Some people would be reasonable dont like revive magic too

[sturdy niche]

some people want to move on to their afterlife, being brought back to life in mortal flesh and blood is not a universally good thing in dnd

[knotty vine]

Since some res spells dont cure sickness

[hot marlin]

"This spell also neutralizes any poisons and cures nonmagical diseases that affected the creature at the time it died"

[empty thicket]

See it like uncanny

[hot marlin]

They do cure sickness

[barren badger]

it issss a type of necromancy...

[sturdy niche]

necromancy is the manipulation of the energies of life and death, it is no more evil than any other tool

[knotty vine]

thats a 7th level spell

[sturdy niche]

at least not inherently evil

[barren badger]

also just like, sourcing a 1000g diamond is probably difficult

not even just the gold, but just finding it

[knotty vine]

so you'd have to find a 13th level cleric/bard and beg them to heal your dead child

[sturdy niche]

the diamond used in such spell is basically a means of paying respect to the god you are beseeching to revive the person in question

[empty thicket]

yep, one of hte many moral things you can enter

[barren badger]

could you use True Resurrection to revive a dead dragon?

[sturdy niche]

stronger spells that target those require more expensive components as the gods has to expend greater power by comparison

[hot marlin]

Yeah. That's the difficulty. Still, not actually impossible

[knotty vine]

If it consents yeah

[empty thicket]

1000gp the diamond maybe 500 more gp to find someone who sell it + time

[hot marlin]

Yes. Therefore, selling counterfeit diamonds to grieving people must be a huge business

[sturdy niche]

why wouldn't you? like far as i no there is no reason to believe it would not work so long as the dragon did not die of old age

[knotty vine]

You mean nobles

[hot marlin]

Any creature

[sturdy niche]

yeah even in 2014 it says creature, a dragon is a creature

[barren badger]

I just thought that reviving a dragon (even recreating its body) might be more difficult than recreating the body of a gnome

[knotty vine]

I doubt most people have seen a spell past 2nd level

[knotty vine]

its not you doing it its the magic

a 9th level spell at that

[sturdy niche]

it is, but true resurrection is very powerful magic, and a dragon's body takes drastically longer to decay naturally

[craggy summit]

I think even less seen past level... 4? 5? spells 😅

[barren badger]

Wait, are there any gods that have died within the past 200 years in faerun..... hm...

[knotty vine]

I mean commoners and nobles and such

[sturdy niche]

when a god dies it is not death in the conventional sense

[knotty vine]

So they would also need to be aware that such magic exist within the world

[craggy summit]

Ahh sorry, me stupid 😅

[knotty vine]

Gods arent creatures

[sturdy niche]

it is more like they go into a divine comma and are floating in the astral see as a thematic chunk of rock

[knotty vine]

in a normal sense anyway

[empty thicket]

at that point you can easily invest in 100gp for a pearl

[sturdy niche]

plus fundimentally death functions differently in relation to gods than to mortal living beings

[empty thicket]

for identify

[buoyant hull]

Does anyone think the new Ravenloft book will have dhampir for 5.5

[knotty vine]

its only 10 😭

[empty thicket]

You cant kill a god, they are like "concepts"

[barren badger]

They made an announcement. It does

[buoyant hull]

Oh sick

[sturdy niche]

until they are found out or the church cracks down on those heretics, assuming the local paladin order does not do it first

[buoyant hull]

I hope they can walk on walls still

[knotty vine]

Thats still super weird to me

[barren badger]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/2169-everything-you-need-to-know-about-ravenloft-the

[knotty vine]

As now we have BoH dhampier

and this Dhampier

[hot marlin]

Actually that is not the reason. The book Dead Gods goes into details about how to resurrect gods

[empty thicket]

for identify you need a pearl worth 100gp or more. Or when they changed it?

[barren badger]

i wonder if it will be the same

[knotty vine]

yeah but mortal magic we have in 5e isnt enough

[sturdy niche]

they already were reprinted in a digital suppliment for the 5e books, the ravenloft one will be it's first physical reprinting

[craggy summit]

I feel like it would make sense for them to do it 🤔 unless the recently released dhampir from astarion's book counts as 5.5

[knotty vine]

Oh it was a peral worth 100

I thought it was 10

Thats weird

[hot marlin]

No real rules for that, while it does stand to reason, it's not really stated anywhere in 5e that gods can't be targetted.

[sturdy niche]

plus magic works very differently back then, and even baring they these are obscure rarely known elaborate rituals to my knowledge

[hot marlin]

So, from a pure RAW perspective, in 5e, yeah, true resurrection would work on a dead god

[sturdy niche]

no one mortal, no matter how powerful can by their magic alone restore a god

[hearty swan]

hi guys, newbie here. can anyone give me an advice on how to start playing d&d? i've already watched a bunch of videos but my friends don't enjoy it the way i do

[knotty vine]

The creature needs to have a body gods dont really have those

[empty thicket]

its one of many early spells that need that kind of.. expensive materials...Still identify is a goated utility spell

[knotty vine]

Unless its like an avatar

[sturdy niche]

an avatar is basically a fake body with a limited amount of their power in it

[knotty vine]

Plus you'd have to find a god thats been "dead" no longer then 200 years

[sturdy niche]

it disappears until they can create a new one, does nothing to harm, let alone kill the actual deity

[sturdy niche]

it just flat out would not work

[hot marlin]

Gods do have bodies, and dead gods have corpses. Otherwise the Githyanki would lack ground floor for their homes.

[knotty vine]

But those arent on our plane

[sturdy niche]

it might be debatable in the context of a demi-god, as historically their divine domains need to be on the prime material plane

[knotty vine]

the PMP

[hot marlin]

If you can cast resurrection, you can cast plane shift.

[knotty vine]

True but again I doubt theres any gods current thats died within 200 years currently

At least within lore

[hot marlin]

Depends on when your campaign is set

And where, actually.

[sturdy niche]

plus the body of a dead god is when they are in the astral sea and "dead" a type of rock remenisisant of that god's portfolio in life, but only a fool would dig into or tamper with it, that is why the githyanki built their city on top of a dead god, and not into it

[knotty vine]

Maybe if you find a ooze of annihilation then you can revive a dead god

[barren badger]

you actually dont need the body of the dead creature to revive it though (with True Resurrection)

[knotty vine]

Yeah but that brings up the question are gods creatures in 5e

Which is usually no

The best we got is Tiamat but I think thats an avatar

[sturdy niche]

cuz the og Anubis, or his non divine aspect, guards over them and if you desecrate these divine corpses, it is his duty to end you https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Anubis#History

[hot marlin]

That is a huge debate. But... We have statblocks for three gods that lack any mention of it being "aspects" or "avatars".

[knotty vine]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/21927-tiamat

[hot marlin]

It is however a debate

Those three being Asmodeus, Auril, and one whose name I forgot but appears in one of the Candlekeep adventures

[barren badger]

Tiamet is a god

[sturdy niche]

and again, you would have to kill tiamat's true body, and even then death for gods is fundamentally different from mortal life

[knotty vine]

Her true body is in hell

its why shes a fiend instead of a dragon

[sturdy niche]

yeah and drastically more powerful than the statlbock would lead you to believe

[hot marlin]

Going to hell is not that hard. One adventure involves relatively low level PCs going there

[sturdy niche]

going to hell is hard, at least if you are meaning to survive the experience

[knotty vine]

You'd have to go deeper into hell

And unless you wanna encounter all sorts of devils I hope you prepared some sunscreen

[hot marlin]

Actually no, not deeper. Tiamat dwells in Avernus, that's the least deep part of hell

[knotty vine]

Thats her avatar

[sturdy niche]

no, but you will have to navigate an infinite in scale layer of hell that is not only a massive war torn wasteland, but the front lines of the blood war and is known to literally rain fire

[feral fulcrum]

It's not that weird, something gets printed in a fairly...not mainstream book or side-product thing, and makes it's way back into a bigger, more popular book later. It happened with Fairies for example, that took like a month to get dumped into Mordenkainens

[barren badger]

Suppose you had the power to resurrect ANY being in the lore of the forgotten realms. Which creature would be the worst to revive?

[barren badger]

Someone also mentioned that the printing they've had was digital only

[knotty vine]

Tiamat had three manifestations in Avernus as well, one of which never left the gate to Dis. Her manifestation as Azharul was her other 'public' face used for when foes challenged her to combat, meanwhile her original body remained secluded in her lair

[sturdy niche]

plus there is the ancient dragons she has as her consorts, her armies, her divine domain, getting to hell in the broadedest sense is technically easy, but anything beyond that especially surviving is anything but easy

[hot marlin]

Uh... No. Her "aspect" is the thing she sends out of hell. But she dwells personally in Avernus

That's wher heir lair and hoard are

And consorts

[sturdy niche]

to my knowledge her remaining aspect's body is the one guarding the gate of dis, her true body is hidden away in her lair

[feral fulcrum]

Karsus.

[knotty vine]

Pretty sure karsus is long dead

Not even dead lmao

[hot marlin]

Nah. Karsus resurrected would not be a big problem.

[knotty vine]

He was turned to stone

[sturdy niche]

i'd argue karsus' fate is one worse than death

[hot marlin]

Fundamentally, he was just a very smart man who made a very dumb mistake. He's not a monster.

[knotty vine]

Hes still alive

Somewhere

[last flume]

Well..."alive"

[hot marlin]

No, he's not alive. His corpse is stone. But his soul is very much dead

[knotty vine]

Yeah hes just currently a statue

[hot marlin]

No. His corpse is a statue

[knotty vine]

I like the other fate a lot more

[sturdy niche]

he was an arogant human that in part do to his hubris made the only objectively wrong choice for his big spell and plant to end the war against the phaerimm

[empty thicket]

Damn, so if even finding his body revive him wont work?

[knotty vine]

if you did I think it would but its prob long gone

[hot marlin]

He's been dead for a lot more than two centuries, so RAW there is no way to resurrect him

[feral fulcrum]

Pretty sure he's been dead long enough that even True Ressurection wouldn't do it, even if his soul had gone super bye bye

[feral fulcrum]

Well, there's always Wish to bypass that restriction, but that's iffy because it's entirely up to DM interpretation.

[twilit sail]

Dyou think hell has a queue to get in

[knotty vine]

Ressurection can reive a creature thats been long dead

and it doesnt really state a limit either

[hot marlin]

"You touch a creature that has been dead for no longer than 200 years and that died for any reason except old age"

[knotty vine]

Casting this spell to revive a creature that has been dead for 365 days or longer taxes you. Until you finish a Long Rest, you can’t cast spells again, and you have Disadvantage on D20 Tests.

[hot marlin]

Clearly you have no read the spells

[sturdy niche]

definitely would beyond your power, and i doubt any god would be willing to help in such a task https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Karsus#Fate

[knotty vine]

I mean the 7th level version

[last flume]

"A dead creature that has been dead for no more than a century"

[feral fulcrum]

"That's been dead for no more then a century."

[sturdy niche]

also his body is literal stone

[feral fulcrum]

And True ressurection bumps it up to 200 years

[hot marlin]

That is not in True Resurrection.

[barren badger]

oh yeah, i was just giving a hypothetical situation. If you could revive ANY being from FR lore, who would be the worst choice to revive

[sturdy niche]

so even if it would work, you gotta restor his body to one of flesh and blood

[last flume]

Also higher beings may have a bone to pick with him, idk if his soul his "free" and willing

[woven flint]

Are we talking about Karsus?

You know Demigods in the realms ARE full gods, who's to say any mortal resurrection spell would work at all anyway?

[knotty vine]

Im I tweaking

With a touch, you revive a dead creature that has been dead for no more than a century, didn’t die of old age, and wasn’t Undead when it died.

The creature returns to life with all its Hit Points. This spell also neutralizes any poisons that affected the creature at the time of death. This spell closes all mortal wounds and restores any missing body parts.

Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The target takes a −4 penalty to D20 Tests. Every time the target finishes a Long Rest, the penalty is reduced by 1 until it becomes 0.

Casting this spell to revive a creature that has been dead for 365 days or longer taxes you. Until you finish a Long Rest, you can’t cast spells again, and you have Disadvantage on D20 Tests.

The very bottom of the spell is right there

[last flume]

365 days is not 100 years

[knotty vine]

Nor does it stat a limit

[feral fulcrum]

Read the very beggining of it, very carefully.

[empty thicket]

a desperate one could.
Having to chose the less bad option is something

[knotty vine]

Or longer

[last flume]

With a touch, you revive a dead creature that has been dead for no more than a century

[barren badger]

was Karsus even THAT bad?

[woven flint]

"For no more than a century"

[last flume]

After 365 days you get a penalty because it's exhausting reviving someone that has been dead so long but the limit is 100 years

[woven flint]

Literally the second line of text.

[severe fox]

I am maleina blade of miqeulla

[feral fulcrum]

His arrogant meddling resulted in a turbo apocalypse and like, a quarter of the setting deleting itself out of existence, along with like a half dozen turbo magic plagues, and no less then two setting rerwites.

[severe fox]

And I have never know defeat

[hot marlin]

Yeah that's resurrection, not true resurrection. And it does state a limit, of one century

[sturdy niche]

i think you are mixing up desperate and foolish, karsus' tale is well known, especially on toril

[hot marlin]

Again, read the spells.

[severe fox]

I feel like arrogant meddling is an understantment

[last flume]

If someone tried to ressurect Karsus I'd have Mystra voice mail them with a big nono don't do that

[woven flint]

Reading comprehension devil >:] /half-joking

[sturdy niche]

no god really has any reason to care about karsus or his petrified remains these days, desperate or not

[severe fox]

Id ignore Mystra and revive him

[hot reef]

it wasn't arrogant, it was the best choice known to him at the time! #karsusdidnothingwrong

[hot marlin]

Also: True resurrection dispenses for the need for a body. So yeah, RAW you can resurrect dead gods even without going to the astral. Lore gets in the way of that

[feral fulcrum]

I think you underestimate the pettiness of gods.

[severe fox]

Hes the reason I cant cast 10 level spells anymore

[hot marlin]

As for Karsus, he's been dead for far too long. No spell will work

[severe fox]

Wish

[woven flint]

Isn't CYRIC sealed away somewhere?

[hot marlin]

And if resurrected, well... Congrats, there's a new super-powered archmage in the world. Not exactly that big of a deal.

[barren badger]

what if he had just chosen a different god, not Mystryl

[severe fox]

I wish I may I wish I might wont the weave just grant my wish tonight

[hot marlin]

As of the Spellplague storyline, yes. Sealed under the supreme throne for killing Mystra

[feral fulcrum]

He'll be funding the Adventure focused Economy.

[last flume]

Isn't the he like the most talented Wizard ever ever

[sturdy niche]

he is also kind of an anomoly, as i believe he is classified as a great old one patron which tend to defy understanding by conventional means

[hot reef]

they wouldn't be nearly as powerful, he knew how to use the weave so he picked the god of magic
and he had no indication that the weave would collapse

[severe fox]

He did cause the spell plauge

And one of the few humans to kill a god

[feral fulcrum]

I wouldn't say most talented, but definitely the most recklessly ambitious.

[severe fox]

He died himself and made humans have a bad name but still pretty cool guy

[sturdy niche]

yes and is already working to get free and his plans have nothing to do with karsus, and the man is insane and power hungry, he likely would just steal his power, which he would not need to restore to mortal life to do if at all

[barren badger]

oh wow he wasnt allowed to go to an afterlife... Poor karsus

[hot marlin]

Sure. But the seven sisters and Elminster and a few other have patronage from Mystra as chosen, so that kind of balances things out

[severe fox]

I like his names one of them being "the monkey who wanted to fly"

[wind flare]

Do Phoenixes in D&D have a canonical color?

[barren badger]

I could fix karsus

[feral fulcrum]

The only reason someone hasn't been as absoltue bugnuts insane as him, isn't from a lack of skill, it's because Mystra litteraly remolded the weave to make his level of nonsense IMPOSSIBLE to repeat.

[woven flint]

But I'd still like to put on the table:

Karsus, despite our understanding of the title of Demigod, is a full God in the realms, who's to say mortal resurrection magic would work on him?

[severe fox]

Legit

[hot marlin]

Which is stupid. He already could fly, he had the spell in his spellbook. He probably spent more time flying than walking

Flying s not that hard!

[sturdy niche]

he was a protégée for his time, but he is not by far the most talented ever, i am fully sure that elminster is at least as skilled and powerful if not more so, even without his chosen status compared to pre-godhood karsus

[severe fox]

I think it was more so because he was a mere mortal who wanted to be a god

Still really through

[woven flint]

Wait, Karsus wasn't a god? Or was he? Idfk.

[severe fox]

He was a psuedo god

[sturdy niche]

he was, for like barely a few minutes

[hot marlin]

Plenty of mortals ascended to godhood. It's not that foolish

[feral fulcrum]

He was probably a god for about of all of five seconds

[hot reef]

he didn't want to, he did it to save his empire
his actions were in no way selfish

[severe fox]

But then he challaged the god of magic killed her but also himself in those seconds

[feral fulcrum]

That turned out well for the Netherese

[hot marlin]

Something something road to hell something something good intentions

[severe fox]

I still love to think that within those few seconds of the weave dying that some random wizard was wondering why his light spell wasnt working 😭

[woven flint]

Karsus the Stinkmaxxer

Karsus the Dimwitted

[sturdy niche]

and literally, partially at least do to his hubris, mistakenly chose what is implied the only objectively wrong choice, from my understanding, had he picked any other deity at the time, things would not have gone south at least not as quickly as they did, and he clearly did not know the full consequences of robbing the goddess of magic of her power and ability to maintain the weave

[severe fox]

"Ah, yes. Karsus. Karsus was perhaps the most powerful wizard who ever lived. The child-who-would-become-a-god, the elves called him. And he tried. With a spell of his own devising, he endeavored to usurp in one fell swoop the power of the goddess of magic... Imagine what it must have felt like. To be a god. To know yourself to be untouchable. To be mistaken."
— Gale of Waterdeep

[sturdy niche]

like if you are trying to win a war, why not pick a war deity? especially when the species you are waring against eat magic?

[barren badger]

Are there any deities that were mortals before?

[sturdy niche]

yes

[barren badger]

Myrkul?

[last flume]

I think Lathander was one, no?

[woven flint]

Kelemvor, The Dead Three, Cyric, are a few examples

[severe fox]

Bane bhal and myrkul

[barren badger]

Lathander is a dork >:[

[severe fox]

The dead three got there godhood in such a stupid one

[minor cargo]

I don’t think so. IIRC they are described as generally “fiery”, which could mean different things.

I don’t have my books right in front of me tho.

[barren badger]

oh Mystra was a mortal

[woven flint]

Vecna...

[severe fox]

They went up to withers and were like "Give us godhood!" and wither was like "bet"

[barren badger]

wait.. Vecna lives?

[severe fox]

Yeah thats kinda his whole thing

[hot marlin]

Myrkul, Bane, Bhaal, Cyric, Mystra, Okku, Kelemvor, Azuth, Diancastra, Kagyar, Kiaransalee, Shevarash, Raxivort, Red Knight, Torm, Uthgar, Velsharoon, Vecna, Gwaeron, Finder...

[barren badger]

no no vecna undead

[woven flint]

No, Vecna was technically a mortal that ascended to godhood, but he was a lich by the time he became one, so not really

[hot marlin]

So many gods were once mortals

[barren badger]

see idk why they were so mean to karsus then

[sturdy niche]

mystra (midnight) , kelemvor, cyric, and of course the infamous dead 3 (Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul) though those last 3 are the only ones that still cling on to their humanity to their own detriment, kelemvore and midnight had to abandon their humanity, for lack of a better term, to better fulfill their duities and do them properly

[severe fox]

Theres no ##### way that there is a god named "Red knight"

[hot reef]

is it ever stated that other deities would grant powers strong enough to defeat the Phaerimm? He likely picked Mystryl because it was either the most familiar or easiest to access

[woven flint]

Because his actions had devastating consequences.
For EVERYONE

[severe fox]

Because he caused the spell plague and messed up the weave

[sturdy niche]

i don't count vecna as he is not from toril and he is a lot more careful in his plans and he basically opperates in what i feel is a good mix as both a god and a wizard, not necessarily mortal, even before becoming a god he had not been a mortal for a long time

[hot marlin]

And destroyed at least two great empires

[woven flint]

Yes, there is and she's badass

[severe fox]

Reserch time

[hot reef]

He was put in a tough spot when Ioulaum suddenly fled, and he suddenly had the weight of an entire nation relying on him

[hot marlin]

Regardless. Vecna was a mortal once. He had a mother and a father, he was born naked and covered in bodily fluids and crying like everyone else.

He still counts as a god who was formerly a mortal

[woven flint]

Tempus and Red Knight have a Father-Daughter-esque relationship, though Tempus isn't actually her father.

[severe fox]

But vecna wa sa mortal who became a god

A greater god at that

[sturdy niche]

no, but it is implied that the spell would have worked fine if he had picked any other god, and his assumption is was that mystra would be the best suited for his purpose and make it the easiest, to me this was the first red flag he should have caught

[woven flint]

He wasn't mortal anymore though.

He was a Lich, hence why I said
"Not really"

[hot marlin]

As my favorite dialogue from any fantasy property states:
"Are you ready?"
"I was born ready."
"Oh. I was born naked, crying and covered in feces."
"And that is how you will die"

[sturdy niche]

yeah, but before he became a god he became a lich

[last flume]

Hmmm Circle

[severe fox]

Id still kinda count it as he was an arch lich

Aka the most powerful/the first

Theres no other arch liches

[woven flint]

Vecna WAS a Mortal who became a Lich THEN became a God, so you COULD count it

[sturdy niche]

vecna is prove of why some peopel pursue lichdom as part of a path to godhood, as the evil god of secrets proved that it works

[severe fox]

I dont think theres any other "lich" gods besides Vecna

[woven flint]

There are

[severe fox]

Notable ones I mean

[sturdy niche]

yes and as i said i don't because from my understanding he had not been a mortal for a long time, lcihces typically don't get counted among mortals despite in the past typically being mortals at one point

[severe fox]

They are FRUADS in lore

[sturdy niche]

you are wrong

[barren badger]

Everyone makes mistakes

[sturdy niche]

heck there is one in faerun, was a dead power for a time, but he exists

[severe fox]

esides Vecna was the blueprint

[hot marlin]

Kiarensalee. Lich and elven deity

[woven flint]

Looks at Kiaransalee

Sure, I guess.

[severe fox]

Oh yeah her

The Vengeful Banshee

[woven flint]

Kiaransalee is honestly the most vile deity I think I've read about

[hot marlin]

Mellifleur the lich-lord, from Monster Mythology. God of liches.

[woven flint]

At least in D&D

[severe fox]

e Faerunian demigod of necromancy

[sturdy niche]

allow me to introduce you to Velsharoon https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Velsharoon

[last flume]

What she do, beside being le evil drow god?

[woven flint]

Velsharoon is also a Lich God, though his Portfolio is just Necromancy

[severe fox]

son

Hes a FRUAD

not really please dont haunt me Velsharoon

[sturdy niche]

not always in 3e liches were part of his portfolio

[woven flint]

If you wanna look into her, do it in your own time

[sturdy niche]

also he is not a fraud, if he is a fraud than by your logic so is vecna

[severe fox]

Hes legit called a demi god

[sturdy niche]

demi god in dnd is still a god

[severe fox]

Right

[woven flint]

Kiaransalee, Velsharoon and Vecna pull up to the function

[severe fox]

I forgot about that

[woven flint]

Demigods are FULL gods in D&D.

[sturdy niche]

it is not strictly demi-god in the sense of a mortal and deity had a child

[last flume]

The Wiki page doesn't tell me much though

[hot marlin]

So yeah, plenty of gods are liches.

[severe fox]

thats like 3

[woven flint]

That's up to you to find

[hot marlin]

Four with Velsharoon.

[last flume]

Master of vague posting I see

[severe fox]

But I guess that is plenty even through one of them is more "Banshee" then lich themed

[hot marlin]

Eh, that's a lot more gods than lich gods than lizardfolk gods.

Or tarrasque gods

[severe fox]

I dont think the tarrasque needs a god

[woven flint]

"A demigod was, contrary to its name, not a half-god but a full deity, though the weakest of these and only capable of the most basic abilities of a god, which were still of superhuman nature. They generally represented one aspect of mortal life and had hundreds, or even thousands, of followers and were capable of granting spells."
-Faith and Pantheons, pg. 6

[severe fox]

Interesting

[hot marlin]

Yeah, but the tarrasque has zero. So liches have infinitely more gods than the tarrasque

[severe fox]

How eye opening

isnt that Tarrqasque called "a god rage made manifest" or something like that

[sturdy niche]

plus in Velsharoon's 2e days his portfolio was "Necromancy, necromancers, lichdom, evil liches, undeath", and in 3e, was "Liches, Necromancy, Necromancers, and Undeath", and he was dead until more recently where now he is left with far less, as that is what happens with gods when they die and come back, they lose the majority of their portfolio as it has been claimed firmly by other gods, bhaal only managed to snag back murder from cyric when he came back

[woven flint]

We love Velsharoon

[hot marlin]

Oh and Rammaq kinda counts. Depending on how that particular story goes

Demilich though. Titan in life

[severe fox]

How does one go from a Titan to a demilich

[hot marlin]

So just a skull but bigger than most people

[hot marlin]

Step 1: Be born a titan
Step 2: Become a lich
Step 3: Become a demilich

[severe fox]

That pisses me off

[feral fulcrum]

Magic

[hot marlin]

I like Rammaq, he was cool

[severe fox]

Its like dragon liches

[feral fulcrum]

Dracoliches are fine

[sturdy niche]

in some lore it was ment as a weapon against the gods, and should it consume one it's stomachs are potentially one could destroy a god for good in that way, but no god is that foolish, even the dead 3 would not, and they are basically laughing stocks at this point among the gods of toril, much to jergal's amusement

[severe fox]

You already have this immese power as a dragon and if you just live long enough and get enough ###### gold you can become neigh a gold already

[barren badger]

So acktually. becoming a lich and demilich are two different processes

[hot marlin]

And many dracoliches were forced to lichdom

[severe fox]

What is the point of lich dom for you

[barren badger]

you dont go lich --> demilich

[woven flint]

This too ^

[hot marlin]

Titans are not immortal.

[barren badger]

wait no. thats archlich

[hot marlin]

Neither are dragons btw

[thorn osprey]

Renwick Caradoon, Szass Tam, Zlan

[severe fox]

Demi lich is the floating skull

[thorn osprey]

Idk, these are the ones I've seen

[feral fulcrum]

Emergency backup bodies, immunity to Necrotic, Zombies for days.

[severe fox]

Szass tam is not a god

[severe fox]

YOUR A DRAGON!!

By the time you are an adult you can wreak a small village

[woven flint]

You're* 🤓

Sorry, Sorry

[hot marlin]

Don't all caps please.
And dragons are not immortal and have no way to resurrect themselves. Liches are and do

[sturdy niche]

if a dragon willingly becomes a dracolich, that generally implies their plans are far more important than their natural state or their gods, their goals are all that matters, and they will spit in the face of the gods if that means getting what they want, but many on toril were not willingly turned they were tricked, forced, or manipulated by the cult of the dragon

[barren badger]

i once had a character who was a conspiracy theoriest and didnt believe that dragons were real.

[thorn osprey]

Dracoliches ssound so cool ngl

[severe fox]

They can live for 1200+ years

[sturdy niche]

they are

[feral fulcrum]

And Liches can live until they're killed

[severe fox]

compared to us humans who get a 80 years

[woven flint]

Thats not immortal.

[severe fox]

But thats a long long time!

[hot marlin]

Yes. And rivers go towards the sea. I can state facts too

[sturdy niche]

lol, on most worlds such a person would likely be seen as a fool or insane

[sturdy niche]

to humans, yes, dragons, not so much

[hot marlin]

Time is relative. When I was eight, the idea of living up to eighty seemed terrifying and it seemed to me that humans lived far too long

[severe fox]

Even to dragons 1200+ years is a long time because thats greatwyrm status

[sturdy niche]

not everything is ment to be viewed by human standards, humans may thing they are the center of the multiverse, but they are not

[woven flint]

You have to consider
There are plenty individuals of long-lived species who became liches because their goals span way past their mortal lives

[sturdy niche]

again, it is not

[hot marlin]

Actually greatwyrms don't work like that anymore, and the vast majority of dragons will fail to reach that status

[feral fulcrum]

"Why do the beings that are the Gold Standard in Greed want to be More then they are?"

[sturdy niche]

it is the norm for them if anything

[severe fox]

I know that but I mean first step is living that long

[woven flint]

You assume that's a common occurrence for Dragons

[severe fox]

True

[sturdy niche]

dragons are naturally long lived creatures, that is a fact, just cuz we see the lifepsans they have as long or a long time, to a dragon it is normal and ours are short and at times meaningless

[severe fox]

Adventuers always hunting them down

[feral fulcrum]

Greatwyrms also require, as I recall, ganking and eating your alternate universe selves.

[umbral girder]

That is one of the ways

Turns out there are multiple ways

[severe fox]

Cheese and rice moony

[hot marlin]

Everyone's lifespan always feels natural to them.

[umbral girder]

Like Inferno who was literally born a Greatwyrm

[sturdy niche]

a lot of your assumptions either seem not rooted in dnd's lore of those topics or are made off flawed assumptions

[umbral girder]

Bro is literally built different

[severe fox]

Thats insane

[feral fulcrum]

Nepo Baby Dragon.

[hot marlin]

Nobody has ever thought "god it's nice that I'm so weirdly long lived"

[woven flint]

Now, Dracoliches aren't as powerful as greatsyrms.

But its a faster process than aging

[hot marlin]

And safer

[umbral girder]

Null is the “eats himself from other timelines”

[severe fox]

the humble elf druid that reached level 18

[hot marlin]

Remember, the main cause of mortality for dragons is other dragons

[woven flint]

^

[severe fox]

they can live 7500 years 😭

[feral fulcrum]

Suffer Not Thy Neighbor to Live.

[severe fox]

Theres also the undead or undying gets something like that as well warlock patrion

[sturdy niche]

they use to be biologically immortal, but lolth as we call her these days, as i recall kind of ruined it for most of the original primal elves

[feral dock]

@sterile mango

[woven flint]

Again, you assume the elf druid is gonna live that long to begin with

[severe fox]

Live in the forest and retire

[sturdy niche]

or become that powerful

mechanics and lore are not conjoined at the hips, even though one can inform for the other

[woven flint]

Looks at all the evil things in the multiverse that'd love to destroy natural ecosystems

Druids kinda CAN'T retire, its a lifelong dedication.

[severe fox]

Cant wait to become a lich by level 12 soon

Who can also turn into titans

[sturdy niche]

like from pure mechanics you would not expect even having the ability to use magic, is as rare in the forgotten realms as it actually is in lore

it is by no means "common"

[severe fox]

Depends where you are

[umbral girder]

Probably why arch Druids exist

[severe fox]

magic can be very rare or common

[umbral girder]

Really gotta make sure

“I’m doing this for my entire life so it’s gonna be a long one”

[severe fox]

but again most commoners or normal people wont see a spell above level 2

[sturdy niche]

you don't seem to be getting the point, i'm heading back to lore chat and leaving he explaining to others who wish to do so

[umbral girder]

Depends if they live in a city or not

[severe fox]

baldur's gate is filled with casters

Or uh that one placed

[feral fulcrum]

With the thousand wizards or some such?

[hot marlin]

I expect that in an elven city, especially high elven, a lot of people know a few cantrips

[severe fox]

Candle keep!

Theres also water deep

[umbral girder]

Thay, Halruaa, and Silverymoon are examples of a crazy amount of spellcasters in a city

[feral fulcrum]

Candle keep's a library aint it?

[severe fox]

Yeah so it depends where you are

[umbral girder]

Yeah Candlekeep isn’t a city

It’s a Keep

Thus the name

[woven flint]

Shout out to the Ogre in Candlekeep that has a headband of intellect

We love "Little One"

[severe fox]

I love little one

[woven flint]

He's dope

[feral fulcrum]

The existence of Little One implies the existence of a Big One

[severe fox]

Who is big one!

[woven flint]

He named himself Little One in honor of a halfling he killed before he got his headband of intellect

[severe fox]

I cant help but think of Little one as a more wise/smarter I forgot his name The Enlighted from BG3

[woven flint]

He felt immense guilt afterwards

[severe fox]

Lump!

[woven flint]

Isn't there a few friendly Ogres scattered throughout the modules?

Little One is the only one I can think of rn

[severe fox]

Yeah but the only other ones I can think of are the random encounter in BG3

theres also a half-ogre named grug who guards elf song tavern

[woven flint]

Is his name..
Actually Grug?
I've seen him before abd that's who i was thinking abkut but-

[severe fox]

No its not I just forgoto

[woven flint]

Rhymes with Grug 😎

[severe fox]

Flanking the entrance are two bouncers: a suit of animated armor called Klank and a gruff female half-ogre named Skoona

The animated armor being named Klank is my favorite gag

[woven flint]

Klank and Skoona!

Yeah, My Bugbear Ranger made friends with those two

[buoyant frost]

I am of the opinion in dnd that player actions and even NPC actions should have consequences in world beyond guards, fines, and that kind of thing

What do you all think of that?

[severe fox]

I had a player executed for attempted regicide before

[craggy trench]

how do i get over being shy in dnd?

[buoyant frost]

Do you want honest advice or what most people say?

[severe fox]

Scream and shout

Idk really know Ive never been "shy" about dnd

[craggy trench]

i want honest advice even if it’s blunt

[buoyant frost]

May I dm you?

[craggy trench]

yes

[knotty vine]

You could try to talk about your character in 3rd person

[last flume]

Exactly how you get better in anything in life, keep practicing and doing it

[knotty vine]

Ive started voice training to better voice my npcs

[last flume]

I got no vocal range so I'll don't do voices, it doesn't matter how good you are at RP or voices as long as everyone has a good time with eachother

[timber cove]

now that's dedication to the craft

[knotty vine]

Of course!

[timber cove]

i've been watching tons of D&D youtube

some live play

[knotty vine]

legends of avantris has to be my absoute favorite

[timber cove]

i'll look for that one

im watching the official one shot with ginny d and Aabria Iyengar as dm

[glossy otter]

Well, my group voted to venutre into the domains of dread along with being trapped in Lamordia for my alt campaign, though I do wonder what hells to throw them into lol

[empty thicket]

almost same, i had been training my english with them

my group say that i do good roleplay sometimes

the last dramatic roleplay they loved how broken and desperate i sound

[timber cove]

i do voices sometimes but i cant even keep them consistent

[glossy otter]

tbh I have mad respect for those who do the voices

[last flume]

True and Real

[timber cove]

yeah, voices is one of those professional DM touches

[knotty vine]

I love doing Pirate voices

[glossy otter]

It's not an easy feat. I remember one day doing an NPC with a rasp in his voice and it haunted me on my shift where I had to yell

[knotty vine]

There just something about them

The only voices I dont like doing are dwarfs

[shy stirrup]

You can accomplish a lot with your natural voice, but just change cadence, tone, word choice. The excited gnome merchant speaks quickly, and higher pitched. The old wise king speaks slowly, deliberately, and so on

[glossy otter]

Oddly enough dwarves for me are the easiest. Feminine voices are the bane of my existence

[knotty vine]

Ive been told the my best race that I can voice is goblins or orcs

[timber cove]

i want to get better at descriptions

add some detail to my world

[glossy otter]

I still want to perfect a rasp that doesn't kill my vocal chords

[feral fulcrum]

Unforunately I'm pretty sure rasps are inherently not good for the vocal chords.

[sleek cloud]

I’d love to play a dwarf with a near unintelligible Scottish accent

[glossy otter]

Orcs I just pull out the cockney

[last flume]

I read that wrong

[abstract ledge]

hey guys

[timber cove]

hi

[abstract ledge]

does anyone know dnd servers thats not many people but active

[glossy otter]

Tbh I don't spell it often so I don't blame ye lol

[abstract ledge]

like a smaller community

[glossy otter]

Not really, a lot of the ones I've seen are just the public servers through discord

[last flume]

Sound like private servers you have to know a member of to join

Can't help you with that :")

[abstract ledge]

oh

I just want servers to share my artworks

[glossy otter]

Ok, I read that and all I could think was the stonecutters. We need to know a guy to join the inner dnd circle

[paper portal]

we do have #dnd-arts-and-crafts here

[glossy otter]

Btw that does make me think. Is there an inner circle in this server..... XD

[last flume]

-# Ahem #optimization

[last flume]

Who knows

[errant crag]

D&Dcord

[timber cove]

lets make our own inner circle

[odd valley]

someone called?

[abstract ledge]

I see

[last flume]

Lots of extreme math addicts in that channel

[little stream]

Hate math, love money. Paypal me

No, I'm not a scammer. Doing a bit but this seems wrong

[empty thicket]

yeah, isnt dnd at the end of the day maths with strategy and some perfomance?

and lot of gambling

[knotty vine]

I really hate the stigma that "If you use homebrew your game is bad"

[timber cove]

who says this?

homebrews are beautiful

[knotty vine]

Theres a decent amount of people that dont like anything not made by wizards

[harsh dragon]

It's just that homebrew can be a bit more chaotic

[shy stirrup]

Some homebrew is a perfectly crafted blend of perfection in a mug
Some homebrew is utterly cursed 🤷‍♂️

[sage cobalt]

Alot is in between

[harsh dragon]

Yup

[shy stirrup]

And much in between, yes

[knotty vine]

That also includes 3rd party through

[timber cove]

homebrew is what makes it really interesting

[knotty vine]

But thats also the same

[empty thicket]

i would say it depend the dept and polishing that such thing get

and size

[knotty vine]

I use a decent amount of 3rd party content in some of my games

[shy stirrup]

In defense of homebrew, virtually everything in this game was someone's homebrew at some point

[sage cobalt]

Honestly. A dm that can power scale accordingly with their homebrew can make a fun game. It's just when it gets out of balance that it really gets unfun

[errant crag]

As a person who bans all homebrew from my game, that would be a ridiculous thing for someone to say

[empty thicket]

Dept = like rarity in items
Polishing = if its well made and isnt op and instant win
Size = from a small item that do a funny lil thing that dont matter to a whole homebrew class

[paper portal]

tbh most optimization doesnt involve much maths we've just been doing it anyways for fun recently

[errant crag]

I don't allow any homebrew and don't use any myself as a player either, even in games where it's allowed; but that's not because I think WotC design is the best or that official content is superior to homebrew, I simply prefer the consistency of being able to hear what one of my players is playing and knowing everything that is possible for their character to do or not do.

[empty thicket]

wait, we call homebrew an Axe that have some magic effect from other kind of weapon?

stuff like that

[knotty vine]

Homebrew is usually just player made content

[errant crag]

I wouldn't personally consider that to be actual homebrew but it is in the technical definition of the term homebrew

[empty thicket]

Okey okey, thankies

but yeah, i think that if a DM let SOME homebrew content in his campaign, things he chose.
Its okey, obviously depend of how "deep" it is, something not so deep like the example i just said its more than doable

I remember finding a book with "food" for DnD, giving some meals some lil effects like // +1 in charisma but -2 in wisdom //
I think that is alrighty

[twilit sail]

if a DM does anything even slightly differently than how i would have done it i think its only right to smite them with lightning

[hardy solstice]

I dislike homebrew.

[empty thicket]

Pffff, that is fair

[hardy solstice]

I like good old 2014

[hardy solstice]

I never seen good homebrew

But I'm open

[empty thicket]

Good, would like to justify why such stance?

[hardy solstice]

Huh?

Oh no I wasn't being hostile

[paper portal]

real same

[last flume]

There is good and balanced homebrew, you just haven't been looking in the right places

[errant crag]

I like 2024 and 2014

[hardy solstice]

Let me rephrase myself, apologies

[errant crag]

Both have things I like and dislike

[empty thicket]

no no, i didnt took it like hostile dont worry

[hardy solstice]

Ohhh

[hardy solstice]

The simplicity is GOLD

[hardy solstice]

Ohh

[empty thicket]

i just like to see how people think stuff, it help me to understand things better

[errant crag]

A lot of homebrew is just cringe

[empty thicket]

like people who dont like melted cheese because it feel weird to eat

or the people who dont like tomato sliced but tomato sauce are totally okey

i understand that most "Homebrew" stuff isnt balanced and need constant polishing

[hardy solstice]

Because all the homebrew I've seen is just wannabe Warhammer star wars collab flop, ganked classes, and immersion breaking BS

[little stream]

Wdym people dont like tomato sliced? I eat tomato just for the sake of it

[twilit sail]

when she was a child, a 5e homebrewer killed her parents in a dark alleyway

[paper portal]

i dont like tomato at all

[empty thicket]

pffff

[hardy solstice]

Yeah I know it sucks.

[paper portal]

its true i was the alleyway

[empty thicket]

my lil brother dont like tomato salad but he can eat some pasta with a sauce with tomate easily

[little stream]

Diabolicol

[hardy solstice]

I saw it and gave up.

I still knew there had to be some good homebrew

[errant crag]

There's a big difference between whole raw tomato and tomato sauce it's not unreasonable to like one and not the other

[empty thicket]

Yeah, its kinda hard to adapt some stuff and balance it too

[empty thicket]

Yep, its totally okey

[paper portal]

yeah they taste completely different

[hardy solstice]

Like the blood hunter class is good.

[errant crag]

I eat Skittles it doesn't mean I wanna down a jug of Red 40

[last flume]

I'd disagree

[empty thicket]

i read some about it, i think i read too it was "supported"

Last bloodhunter i interacted i ended up killing him (for accident) so i wont say its "good"

[hardy solstice]

I mean it's quality compared to the other homebrew I've seen

[empty thicket]

(It was a lycan)