dnd-discussion

[turbid vessel]

modules are great but i have the most fun when i treat them like legos: instructions are optional

[errant crag]

But gold alone really doesn't do much to affect how powerful they are

[keen kestrel]

There is?

I'm learning new things

[rough basalt]

Gold is too OP need nerf /j

[short brook]

throw mammon at them

[turbid vessel]

new spellplague just dropped, goldplague: now Electrum is the only viable currency

[crimson gulch]

Gold is power. And that is power that you should get

[rough basalt]

Reason why Gold rewards isn't too common in my monday game is cause the players are more wandering heroes thats quests are mainly helping in exchange for something

[errant crag]

Gold is one of the safest ways to increase your players' power imo

[rough basalt]

Like their biggest haul was a wizard tower and several magic items inside

[errant crag]

Because aside from buying new weapons and armor, spell components, and stuff like that; there's really not a ton of ways it can be used to increase their power.

[rough basalt]

The fighter ended up only having 7 copper pieces one time

[steady zephyr]

chat I have approximately six hours to prepare for a session. am I cooked

[errant crag]

No

I usually prepare with 2-3

[turbid vessel]

there's hundreds of free session ideas out there on the internet. you ain't cooked, you're marinating

[errant crag]

If at all

[crimson gulch]

I prep for a session in about 10 to 15 minutes usually, it dosent take much

[valid geyser]

i did just finish a game where we got a butt ton of gold and had the chance to buy stuff with that. it was decent
only really until the end did we buy magic items we wanted, and i had a pet project of buying a forbiddance spell over our boat, but it really seemed that the DM liked to dispel it whenever it mattered, or otherwise.

[short brook]

professionals over here

[rough basalt]

My prep can go anywhere from 5 minutes to several hours

[errant crag]

Nah my games are just mid

But my players' standards are low so it works out

[steady zephyr]

aha! little do they know I have to make over 20 sprites !

[rough basalt]

Several hours one is usually I have an attack of nerves

Or I get started then end up here

[crimson gulch]

I don't make art for my games I just use the art from my books

I have all the books so there's enough in there

[errant crag]

The worst thing is when a DM who doesn't give you enough gold dangles magic items for sale in front of you, usually because they don't realize how little gold they've given you

[short brook]

one day i'll be able to dm, today is not that day

[rough basalt]

I should use my Gamemasters books to help me get my 3rd campaign prepped

[crimson gulch]

Ewww, I hate that

[rough basalt]

I'm making my own domain of dread so the random tables to make the settlements and npcs will be nice

[rough basalt]

I've done this unintentionally

[primal wolf]

yeah you see 10,000 gp magic items while you're at level 8 and the pally is still in their starting splint armor.

[short brook]

ooo any details?

[rough basalt]

Both my campaigns have random encounter tables and part of the table is meeting wandering merchants that sell goods and magic items

[errant crag]

"He has a Belt of Hill Giant Strength for sale"
"Oh wow how much is it?"
"2000+ gold!"
"Aw sick I have never had more than 300 over the course of this campaign"

[rough basalt]

And my wednesday level 1 party met two of them

[turbid vessel]

when my players ended waterdeep dragon heist with a lovely chunk of gold, i had a lot of fun desinging a thematic magic item shop filled to the brim with different things

[rough basalt]

Tho its not always a dead end

[crimson gulch]

I have Volo running a magic shop called dispell and datspell where for 100g you can spin a wheel on a magic item gumball machine

[valid geyser]

its a lot more common for a DM to underpay then overpay. I remember a handful of times when we had less than a hundred gold in our personal inventories by level 5

[crimson gulch]

Where I roll on the uncommon magic item table I the dmg

[primal wolf]

I keep hearing about the DM's who do this and then mine get mad when I do something like use phantom steed to travel

[rough basalt]

My monday party ran into the wandering skeleton merchant and because they didnt attack him and spoke in sign with him he gave them a rope of climbing to help them with the Wizard Tower

[celest spire]

.....some part of me wants the Witches Road to be a dark domain..

[rough basalt]

Cause he was happy to meet some nice people he could talk to

[errant crag]

Ghosts of Saltmarsh was the adventure that really put into perspective how much gold the players should be receiving. That game throws a lot of gold at players and also gives them expensive things to spend it on and the players really loved that about it.

[woven flint]

I hope we encounter him again, loved that guy

[rough basalt]

He's my favorite of draconias wandering merchants

[primal wolf]

i'm just tired of starting gear being my campaign-long set of gear

[rough basalt]

Reminds me, spoiler if you're in my wednesday game ||wednesday potentially saved one of the wandering merchants of arcanum from a blood rage curse she was under||

So she'll have a nice reward for them

[valid geyser]

also i kinda get it, i dont remember off the top of my head what a reasonable treasure hoard for a level 5 party is, and i get being scared to overshoot it. But youre still also controlling the economy, you can much easier restrict what they can purchase rather than restrict their income

[rough basalt]

Saying that cause one of my wednesday group is active here

[primal wolf]

some of my PC's entire motive for adventuring is the gold and then we end up pennyless

[celest spire]

The Major issue with the abundance of gold. Is that after your first few adventures? It raises the question of why you would still be adventuring. 500 gold is more then enough money to last a lifetime. So why are the party members seeking out danger and possible earlier demise.

[errant crag]

In the game I'm playing my 7th level Barbarian has a +1 Sickle, a +1 Scimitar, and a magical Warhammer that does an additional 1d6 of fire damage. These are the only magic items I've gotten so far.

[primal wolf]

I'd probably get kicked from the campaign, like i did when i brought this up last time

[rough basalt]

I could see both my games coming across some good cash soon

[short brook]

some dms got some egos thats for sure

[turbid vessel]

i've always wanted to design a little point system for dnd economy. something like "minor, moderate, major, massive, legendary value" and each item or pile of coins the players come across is worth a value type. so a small handful of gold could be worth moderate value, but a full bag is major value
and then each value has a point value assigned to it, where everything in the world you can buy has a point value cost

[valid geyser]

i was talking more moneywise. In the 2024 DMG, treasure hoards are annoyingly in the creating an adventure chapter rather than the treasure chaptr

[rough basalt]

I've just been winging it

It's definitely been messy but I'm rolling with it

[primal wolf]

I was playing an artifizard, crafter feat and all. Post-session-0 I'm told gold doesn't exist in world. I mention this affects my crafting pretty signifigantly. DM gives me a page of homebrew nerfs and adjustments to crafting instead of using gold then not only bans me from the table but steals my PC and writing when I said i'd like to just use what the book allows.

[rough basalt]

God

I wish i could have an artificer that wanted to do lots of crafting

[lavish flame]

One of my favorite moments as a DM was when a party looted a pirate ship and found like 2,000GP in Saffron

[valid geyser]

also this is kind of a seperate complaint but i really dislike dmg24 magic item tables. They're organized alphabetically and not weighted at all. a +1 weapon shouldnt be as common to roll as a potion

[turbid vessel]

i hope they used those 3 sprigs of saffron wisely

[primal wolf]

I got kicked after, I didn't go back

[lavish flame]

surprisingly enough, saffron is only 15gp/pound

[rough basalt]

Just remembered. I need to find art of an attractive woman for the patron npc of my upcoming campaign.

[keen kestrel]

salma hayek is a good start

surely there's nice art of her out there

[primal wolf]

it was a relevant example to what I was talking about?

[errant crag]

What is your deal right now brother

Sil is talking about experiences he had in the past about stingy DMs

Because it was relevant to the discussion

[lavish flame]

there's art of like a noblewoman in Tasha's Cauldron or Eberron Rising (idr which, but it was in a Group Patrons chapter) that might be worth looking at. I always thought she might be a member of The Aurum if I ran an Eberron campaign.

[keen kestrel]

I should've asked if sora was looking for media within the context of dnd or if anything could be used lol

[errant crag]

If the chat was talking about puzzles and I was like "Aw yeah I played In a game with this bad puzzle:" thats just sharing an anecdote that is relevant to the conversation, not me having an inability to move on.

[lavish flame]

Found it! https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/tcoe/group-patrons#Aristocrat

[primal wolf]

I've been in some really bad puzzles just because the DM really wants me to Roll skill vs DC instead of being creative with it.

[errant crag]

I'd rather puzzles like that over the kinds of puzzles I've been burned by

[turbid vessel]

sometimes as a DM i don't even think of a solution for a puzzle. i just wait for my players to think of something clever

[rough basalt]

Grabbing Tashas.

[lavish flame]

im always super flexible about open ended puzzles

[rough basalt]

If I can find it.

[lavish flame]

Found it! https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/tcoe/group-patrons#Aristocrat

[rough basalt]

My dnd books are scattered across my room.

[woven flint]

Hey, Sora, Tonight's the Night :]

[primal wolf]

my worst was

The quest item is locked in a safe
"ok! I use my alchemists jug with acid vials to burn the lock"
The lock isn't external
"ok, I'll burn off the hinges to the safe door"
There's no hinges
"Ok, can I use an unseen servant to get to the inside of the safe?"
There's literally zero space on the inside
"Can i just break or melt the door itself?"
It's uhh- made of adamantium
I sigh, roll lockpicking with adv from help. 2, 4. Roll luck point. 3.
You mess up so bad i'm raising the DC of everything else the party does by 5 this session

[errant crag]

I've had so many DMs shoehorn in "puzzles" that are just "series of complex math equations" or "trivia about a subject that isn't relevant to the game at all" and I was sitting there like please for the love of god give me an intelligence check with a DC or something to move on

[turbid vessel]

my group really likes riddles. they also really like arguing over riddle solutions

[woven flint]

Bro what.
I hope you left

[lavish flame]

unironically math is wild

[rough basalt]

I like puzzles

I use ones with visual rep on my maps so the player as well as the character could've solved it rather than be purely out of game.

[turbid vessel]

i have a player that would be having the best day ever if i gave them a trig problem as a dnd puzzle

[prime basin]

I also really like riddles, the problem is that not everyone is up to speed and I feel like you should give hints of some sort and also allow people proficient in a certain skill of you're choice (I think history is the best) to see if they can understand the riddle better

[turbid vessel]

wow did it get hot in here or something

[valid geyser]

im ok with puzzles that test irl knowledge

[turbid vessel]

topic change! what's a riddle or puzzle you've always wanted to use in a game?

[valid geyser]

the worst puzzles ive experienced are what AI considers "puzzles" i.e, forced character development

[errant crag]

We don't need a topic change we can just ignore that one message

[valid geyser]

it's stuff like "to open the door, you must reveal a deep dark secret"

[onyx haven]

I've a soft spot for when the puzzle is an actual physical activity for the table to do. Like one of those 3D assembling puzzles.

[prime basin]

The riddle is "what's the goal of life?" Every answer to the riddle is acceptable but I just want to see how long the party argues to come to a conclusion on one answer

[errant crag]

The only real "puzzle" I actually came up with in a game I made myself was that the players chased a fleeing enemy into a large room with a big scary monster chained to the wall of the room, but the fleeing enemy was nowhere to be found, and the room had no exits or other hiding spots. The room was also full of other red herring details and stuff.

Turned out the large scary creature chained to the wall was actually an illusion that was concealing the pathway going forward

Which the players took a while to figure out as they were naturally scared to get close to it or risk it breaking free

They eventually wised up to what was going on when the Druid made a nature check to see what he knew about these creatures, and he knew they normally had a pungent stench but this one didn't smell like anything.

[vale sage]

Hi guys

[errant crag]

The players almost drowned themselves in mud because they thought they had to swim through the pits of mud that were in the room

Touching glowing mushrooms, praying at a shrine made of seaweed and fish guts (Kuo Toa dungeon)

[stray nymph]

Thoughts on a Tortle/Warlock who accidentally got blessed because he thought he was signing up for a beach tour? I want to make an easy-to-play character who has a very easily distinguishable personality for my friend who's starting dnd

[woven flint]

Just keep the tone of the campaign in mind
But , yeah, sounds fun

[stray nymph]

just gonna start w delian tomb as a chill one shot so most things are fine (also im dm so i can always change whatever)

[arctic bay]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/6374363-ergomeios-pharmion Would this mage as a BBEG for a oneshot be an okay power level for a 4 person party of level 4?

[stray nymph]

what type of campaign is it? (like how difficult do you want it to be?)

[arctic bay]

its like a 2 hour oneshot, which basically consist mechanically other then rp of 1 forced fight and 1 optional one other than the bbeg

first fight has a potential long rest after tho, second one consists of 4 apes and an orc

so very small resource drain potential

would like it to be a one shot where theres potential for character death, but i dont want like, 90% tpk

[ripe nimbus]

• take all your gold
• take all your silver
• mix it
  now you have electrum!

[stray nymph]

damage seems a bit high compared to the cr 4 enemies i'm used to but the hp is quite low so it could be interesting

doesn't seem to have many fight mechanics or gimmicks

i think making a bbeg have a bit more hp and a bit less damage with some more gimmicks could be fun but it doesn't seem unbalanced in its current position

[arctic bay]

thats good advice :), ill reduce the damage a bit and make him have a gimmich with the polymorph, thanks! any advice on the dmg numbers?

[limber trail]

I'm gonna be fully honest a level four party of four seems like they'd still wipe this boss out pretty efficiently

Their arcane burst is solid but other than that they don't have much health or AC

A bad initiative roll and this guy never even gets a turn

[arctic bay]

Arcane Burst. Melee or Ranged Attack Roll: +6, reach 5 ft. or range 120 ft. Hit: 12 (2d8 + 3) Force damage, 72 hp, and then a polymorph gimmick where he makes like an object into a cr 3 creature when he drops low?

[knotty vine]

Guess who just bought Foundry!

[limber trail]

Polymorph can only turn creatures into other creatures, it can't target objects. 72HP is also nothing to write home about for a party focused on killing this guy

[arctic bay]

ye well, lets say i go homebrew with that one, transforming an objecct to a cr 3 creature would make him strong enough?

[knotty vine]

Polymorph is like creatures into beast

That would be true polymorph which would be strong

[limber trail]

I wouldn't change the way spells work, unless you're prepared to change them for everyone

[knotty vine]

AGAIN that’s already a spell

Called true polymorph

[arctic bay]

alright, lets say i give him true polymorph then

[limber trail]

Please do not give him the 9th level spell true polymorph

[arctic bay]

and he uses that as an o shit card when he drops to 25

[limber trail]

Leave him at 55hp and give him a couple allies to frontline and bodyguard which he can buff up.

The stat block is built to be more of a support caster than a direct combatant, so lean into that and give them allies to support by default

[knotty vine]

You know Knome your my favorite you really are

[limber trail]

don't worry about the polymorph too much. At this CR, That's best served to attempt to turn one of the players into a CR 0 creature

[knotty vine]

Chicken!

[limber trail]

-# is this sarcastic or? I'm not sure

-# im bad at reading some ppl

[knotty vine]

Of course not you always give helpful advice

[limber trail]

well then yeah! turn one of them into a chicken

[arctic bay]

the advice is great, but i like this true polymorph idea too much 😂

[glass granite]

Just give them a custom ability

No need to make it literally a 9th level spell

[knotty vine]

I’ve been up to some tomfoolery

[limber trail]

There's a certain expectation around 9th level spells and their power level. It's a big moment when one of them comes out, so using one willy-nilly like this can undermine them in the future

You want a 9th level spell to be a big moment

[arctic bay]

again, its a one shot, tho, a one time thing, so a big oh nooo moment sounds actually really fun

[limber trail]

True Polymorph is also probably too powerful. It turns an object into a CR 9 creature, which will definitely wipe the party

[vagrant notch]

Any custom lineage recommendation for warlock?

[arctic bay]

so lets say i went with this heavily discourged idea that i like way to much, what stat block of which creature do you think WOULD be balanced, if i didnt go for min max cr 9, but something that would work

[knotty vine]

Custom lineage can look like whatever you want pal

Kinda the whole point

[limber trail]

Depends how the fight goes. If things are way too easy, a CR 5 or 6 creature is well within their capabilities, especially if this guy is only at 25hp or less (which to be clear, 25hp in some circumstances can be a single turn's worth of damage at level 4).

might not even get a chance to use this

[woven flint]

We're facing down a Matron Mother :]

[limber trail]

i pray for you 😔

[woven flint]

My Drow Celestial Warlock was gonna try to play lowkey, but we're kinda cornered with a piece of the Rod of Seven Pieces and we can't let her find out by handing one off

[rough basalt]

Gonna kill us a Matron Mother

Also my level 17 Scion sneak attack is gonna be annoying doing the counting lol

[burnt grove]

Why doesn’t trickster cleric get stealth skill proficiency just for free lol

[woven flint]

OH MY GOD
Sovis came out Swinging and got her out of triple digits by himself

Eldritch Smite and Blade of Disaster

[rough basalt]

We killed her before she got a turn

[woven flint]

we killed her right off-gate

[rough basalt]

30 minutes into the session, 3 20s

one useless one lol

[woven flint]

Sovis feels immensely guilty for killing one of his own people 😔

[errant crag]

Probably because of their ability to give stealth advantage for pretty much free

[burnt grove]

Yea but figure a god is giving them this power.. you’d think giving proficiency in the one thing they’re supposed to be good at for free something to consider lol

[errant crag]

The Entertainer's Pack comes with more gear than the backpack it comes with can hold

What the heck is up with this dawg

[rough basalt]

I'm about to get a delayed blast fireball to the face

[errant whale]

i'd imagine the packs that come with stuff that weigh more than the pack can hold have some items attached to like the side of the backpack

[short brook]

Delayed fireball is such a cool spell

[rough basalt]

The level 17 rogue never passes dex saves

Every time they pop up i get 1s and 2s unless its an autopass then i get a 20

[knotty vine]

I really wanna leave 109 live

[rough basalt]

Time to use my cunning strikes for the 1st time

[knotty vine]

Time stop delayed blast fireball

[short brook]

Imagine blinking and just seeing a bomb in your face lol

[knotty vine]

Basically

[rough basalt]

Knocked him out with knock out. Feels good

[errant crag]

But that's the thing though

The backpack holds 30 lbs
The Entertainer's Pack weighs 58.5 lbs
But if you take the contents of the pack, add their weights together, and add the weight of the backpack: it comes out to 49.5 lbs

Where's the other 9 lbs, WotC?

Where are the other 9 lbs coming from?

[knotty vine]

The weight of being an entertainer

[errant whale]

emotional baggage

[knotty vine]

I like this Tac person

[hot marlin]

You miscounted. If you add the weight of the content of the pack together, it is exactly 58.5

[errant crag]

Where did I miscount? Maybe the rations?

[hot marlin]

Perhaps?

Are you certain you counted all three costumes, all eight flasks of oil, all 9 days of rations?

[errant crag]

I might have taken the wording of "9 days of rations" too literally as medium creatures only need 1 pound of food per day so I interpreted that as 9 pounds of rations

They may have just meant 9 rations, which is 18 pounds

[hot marlin]

Yes, I think so. That is how I counted

[errant crag]

Well they should have just said 9 rations

Because 1 ration is 2 days of food for a medium creature

So "9 days of rations" is not 9 rations

[rough basalt]

Wiping out an entire family in menzoberranzan pog

[hot marlin]

Uh. Yes, you are right. So it appears that the calculations of the weight did not take that into account, and simply considered that it was 9 rations.

So, if it really is 9 rations, this is actually 18 days worth?

[errant crag]

Yeah

Because a medium creature needs 1 pound of food per day and a ration has 2 pounds of food in it

Same with small creatures by the way, this doesn't start changing until tiny and large size categories

But theres still 23.5(?) pounds of equipment that dont fit into the backpack

Because the backpack is 5 pounds and can hold 30 pounds

Time to buy a Sack for 1 copper

[hot marlin]

This might be because bedrolls are expected to be strapped below or above the backpack? Same with lanterns, normally you hang it on the side of the backpack, not inside.

[errant crag]

I am trying really hard to engage with the mechanics of 5e in good faith but WotC are just screaming "NO DONT PLEASE DONT" at me

[errant crag]

It could be that

[hot marlin]

That only accounts for 10 pounds however...

Oh, you wouldn't put a waterskin in your backpack either, that's in your pocket or strapped to your belt.

[errant crag]

Oh true

[hot marlin]

So the things that actually are supposed to be in the backpack are the bell, the costumes, the mirror, the oil, the rations and the tinderbox? That adds up to... In order 0 (no stated weight for the bell) + 12 + 0.5 + 8 + 18.

Damn it, 8.5 pounds that don't fit. The mirror and the oil.

[errant crag]

So yeah about 28.5

Wait no

I forgot a 10s place on the 18

Maybe the intention is you're wearing one of the costumes?

But that's only 4 pounds

[hot marlin]

That only accounts for 4 pounds.

There are still 4.5 pounds that don't fit.

And it's eight flasks of oil. Nobody is walking around with that in their pocket, that's in the backpack

[hazy flume]

Rations

[knotty vine]

This Foundry stuff is pretty intense

[rough basalt]

It's too peak

Gonna make a landing page for my upcoming campaign with the resident evil 2 music playing on it

[proper crypt]

I am currently in a dnd session where I am a player online, and have died recently.
The party is level 10, so I get to build my character from the 10th level

I am a Tabaxi warlock-monk-sorceror-fighter hybrid ( 2 in warlock, 2 in monk, 5 in sorceror and 1 in fighter) with the mobile feat and the spell sniper feat. I took the metamagic heightened spell and distant spell.

Essentially, on the first turn, I will cast haste, action surge, use longstrider, and my dash action + misty step to run away from the enemy
After im far enough I will use eldritch spear, spellsniper, and distance spell metamagic to shoot them from 1200 ft away

but I feel like the build could be improved, I dont need tabaxi and im sure theres another feat thats more useful i can take from variant human
Also the matter of subclass

[tame estuary]

a level 10 tabaxi monk is also cool

you get evasion and deflect attacks

you have higher base speed

and you attack like 5 times per turn? I forgot if that's level 11

[hot marlin]

Uh... What can you do in situations where you can't run away and get range?

[tame estuary]

yeah why have so many levels in sorcerer when it looks like your build fantasy could easily be done with a straight monk

[hollow estuary]

try 6 levels monk four levels rogue.

I think you will enjoy it

[kindred solar]

PSA for all of my evil dark warlords: black cloak with red accent means you disperse into a block of ravens, black cloak with purple accents is a flock of crows, all black cloak with maybe some gold or silver embellishings is black mist

[tame estuary]

it really felt like you were making a monk that needs their long rest to have monk features

[severe rampart]

I don't know if that's necesarry

[proper crypt]

What situation can I not run away in

Also backup: fireball

[severe rampart]

Why would you need to run away?

[proper crypt]

Because the party is based off of a trope where everyone is an outcast for being obsessively good at one specific thing
My old pc was a sorcerer with an ac of 32

[hot marlin]

A situation where the entrance is locked? Or indoors, with corridors, which means that even if you do run away, you won't have line of sight on your target

[tame estuary]

could've start with this

so the entire party has build like this?

[severe rampart]

so you're really really good at running away

[proper crypt]

Ya they are all build weirdly
Also mb

[hazy flume]

One time, I went through the opening to a cave, and my leg was skewered by a medusa with a barbed spear before she started draging me towards her.

I would of loved to run away there.

[proper crypt]

No I’m good at sniping from who knows where
I can get my speed a lot higher if it was just for running away

[proper crypt]

Eeeh that won’t happen too often it’s okay my dm likes decorating and making big areas

[severe rampart]

Why would you need to gain some distance? you can do some trickshots instead and not get 1200 ft from your group

[frail wasp]

or if the monster has a really tasty sandwich and running away means the monster eats the sandwich

[severe rampart]

the Macguffin

[proper crypt]

Because it’s funny
Also guarantees I win the 1v1 if my party gets tpked
Which has happened twice this year

[proper crypt]

Ruh oh

[severe rampart]

I don't know, sounds a little cowardly

Wait

[tame estuary]

I feel like it's fine

[severe rampart]

has happened twice this year?

[proper crypt]

D:

[proper crypt]

Ya it’s been 4 months

[tame estuary]

but if you want to see how you can maximize outputs there's a channel for that

[severe rampart]

But your character just recently died?

[tame estuary]

#optimization

[proper crypt]

Ya

[severe rampart]

You mean your Sorcerer won the 1v1

[proper crypt]

Alrighty thank you

[tame estuary]

looks like you're having a blast, good on you for being in a place you enjoy

[proper crypt]

No my sorcerer was a different build that was meant to be able to fight an army due to insanely high ac and sanctuary and silvery barbs + lucky

[proper crypt]

Thank you I am

[knotty vine]

Oni no

I had to 1v1 a warlock paladin and at level 10 and still won

The best offense is a good defense after all

[errant crag]

Where can I find all the rules for running XP levelling in 5.5e? DMG?

[rough basalt]

ye

[knotty vine]

Idk

[rough basalt]

in Character Advancement

[errant crag]

Thanks

[knotty vine]

I thought they stayed the same

[errant crag]

The rules glossary in the 2024 PHB has a definition for the term Experience as it's used in the context of the game but not the rules for the XP mechanic as a whole

[rough basalt]

Page 48 has the info for it

A crucial thing I almost forget every time is NPCs are factored into xp leveling

With the exception of summons from spells, and beastmaster ect.

But like my wednesday game has an armor that summons a Knight npc so he cuts some of their XP gain

[knotty vine]

judgement

[rough basalt]

XP leveling is fun

Keeps the leveling pace going

[short brook]

If the FR had a main character who would it be

[severe rampart]

I don't know, we forgot them

[primal wolf]

Currently Tasha previously Nystul

[errant crag]

Yeah I just read that in the DMG

[jolly canyon]

Finally got to experience xp leveling too. It's what the WM is running

[knotty vine]

I dont think im the main character of FR

[jolly canyon]

But it's arbitrary(I think) xp rewards based on pc lvl and difficulty of quest

[short brook]

No im the main character

[rough basalt]

Ye regular xp is the XP sum of the encounter divided by PC amount

[knotty vine]

Of what

[errant crag]

I wanna try running XP some time but I doubt my players will be into it

[short brook]

🤔 hmmm

[rough basalt]

And if NPCs are on the parties side, the XP is divided amongst them alongside the pcs

[severe rampart]

god forbid you're seen as an average human being /reference

[severe rampart]

Quite evil to count summons

I like it

[rough basalt]

It means regular npcs

[severe rampart]

You mentioned the knight being summoned from the armor

so he was taking bits of xp

[rough basalt]

Tho if it's a summon that uses a regular npc statblock it counts

But stuff like Conjure Celestial doesnt

[errant crag]

I would not punish the party for having a Necromancer amongst them by reducing the XP they get

[rough basalt]

It's cause having npcs makes the encounter easier

[severe rampart]

the four zombies all collectively getting the same xp as the party

[knotty vine]

summons cant level up so they cant get exp

[severe rampart]

ig it's accounting for NPC companions like Ismark who has 3 attacks and 17 AC

[rough basalt]

It's not really a punishment

You trade out the XP for more fighters

[crimson gulch]

I love running exp leveling, 4/7 of my current campaigns use it

[knotty vine]

The only thing I think that doesnt really count as a summon is simulacrum but it still cant gain levels

[severe rampart]

I think I'd struggle with xp leveling for a bit, because it's not just encounters, completing goals, etc. also gives XP no?

[crimson gulch]

Yes

[errant crag]

If one of my players is a Necromancer who casts Animate Dead it seems unreasonable to me for the amount of XP the entire party gets to be reduced so much. It's what that subclass does.

[rough basalt]

I mean they're adding permanent warriors on their side

[crimson gulch]

I wouldent count animate dead minions or other temporary things

From spells and such

[knotty vine]

Wouldnt count them as permanent but idk

[rough basalt]

Well they dont go away unless they die right?

[errant crag]

It just feels unnecessarily punishing to the entire party just because one player took a subclass that is played around minions

Like that's just gonna make my players upset that someone picked Necromancer or Beastmaster

Seems unreasonable

[rough basalt]

Beastmaster doesnt apply

Since its not a normal npc statblock

[knotty vine]

But Necromancer does?

[errant crag]

It's not like those subclasses are so strong that it necessitates the XP reduction

[knotty vine]

What does animate dead do

[rough basalt]

Animate Dead does, not Summon Undead or other summons

[rough basalt]

Makes a Zombie or Skeleton from the MM

[errant crag]

That's silly

So Find Familiar should also reduce it then?

Since it's a beast stat block from the MM?

[rough basalt]

I think Find familiar is the one unique case since its a cr 0 creature right

[knotty vine]

I think people often forget that you have to recast animate dead again and again

What about pack of the chain

[rough basalt]

Another key aspect is XP is alloted only to whose alive at the end

[knotty vine]

Where it can summon an imp

that can attack

[rough basalt]

Ask the devs

I think the point is so PCs dont level up several times a session by having a cr18 npc kill high level things

[severe rampart]

"Oh it's almost the end of the encounter, kill your zombies necromancer!"

would that work?

[knotty vine]

Also I recall seeing this old video about why animate dead isnt as good a spell as they say

[errant crag]

Nah I'ma just make it so that creatures brought into existence by players class features or spells aren't counted. Gonna only count actual NPCs

[rough basalt]

Ah looks like Animate Dead doesn't hinder

[knotty vine]

mainly cause you have to keep casting it over and over

[rough basalt]

I was wrong. Creatures made by the Caster themselves through spells and features doesnt count

[errant crag]

This is like "No you can't use your Dagger to cut your way out of the Net because it does Piercing damage and the Net only takes slashing damage" style ruling

[knotty vine]

I thought so

[errant crag]

I am pretty strict with RAW but that would just be silly to nerf XP gains over animate dead and find familiar

[severe rampart]

What if you burn the net

[knotty vine]

necromancer doesnt even get free cast of animate dead so they have to waste a 3 level spell slot every day to mantain control over the undead

Ive been reminded of how c tier necomancer was and my day is ruined

[rough basalt]

Ah turns out the Summon from the armor doesnt hinder XP

Ah well

They got it for free at level 1, they can have some XP debt along with their money debt

[knotty vine]

what even is summon armor??

Is it animated armor or what

[rough basalt]

Plate of Knight's Fellowship from the Book of Many Things

it lets you summon a CR3 Knight once per long rest

[severe rampart]

oh wth, that's pretty nice at level 1

[knotty vine]

Thats alright but nothing worth a nerf

[rough basalt]

Given my games focused on exploration and LRs are super common, I think applying an XP debuff is fair.

[errant crag]

Having that slash your XP gains feels like adversarial "Erm ackshually" type DMing

[severe rampart]

let the knight level up with them

[knotty vine]

The fact that its plate is more crazy to me

[errant crag]

I would only have XP be slashed by actual NPCs

[knotty vine]

Plate at level one

[rough basalt]

Well they get like 4 or 5 LRs a session so its already a cheat code armor at their level

[knotty vine]

It also disappears at after 1 min

[errant crag]

4 or 5 long rests a session?

[severe rampart]

Holy moly

how long are your sessions

[rough basalt]

3 hours

[knotty vine]

So are we gonna just ignore that you can only take 1 long rest per day or what

[rough basalt]

I run hexcrawls and exploration in my games is usually 6 hours per hex unless they're going to a poi in the hex

[knotty vine]

Orwas that changed too

[rough basalt]

No, time just passes

[knotty vine]

That doesnt anwser my question

[rough basalt]

It does tho

[knotty vine]

The armor says Dawn so its not at the end of a long rest its at dawn

[rough basalt]

Huh, well nothing wouldnt have happened illegally yet so good to know

They've mostly kept a good sleep schedule like good adventurers

[knotty vine]

Big diff if an item charges at long rest or at "dawn"

Whatever that may b

[rough basalt]

Good to know

Given how quick time passes in my games I'm still gonna apply that, but good to know for games down the road

Cause to give you an idea, I've ran 3 sessions of wednesday and a weeks passed ingame, and that was traveling somewhere and back.

Iirc my monday game is almost 2 months inworld in

Only a week of that was downtime.

[knotty vine]

I use the forgetten realms time table

[rough basalt]

I use irl

Cause I haven't come up with a calendar for my world yet

I'll deliberate on whether to retroactively add the xp or keep the debuff

Cause a part of me doesn't want wednesday to level at lightning speed

[woven flint]

....
My Drow Warlock was just approached by Kas.

[rough basalt]

While another part of me realizes that summons gonna fall off in t2

On another hand I don't remember all the encounters so far to retroactively add the stuff that was cut

[tall lake]

You guys ever just preplanning roleplay moments in your head

[rough basalt]

Ye

From now on, I'll stop cutting the XP.

[tall lake]

Okay few

[rough basalt]

Especially since he's gonna have to start dealing with his debt problem soon

[severe rampart]

Yeah

Monologues and such

[rough basalt]

He didnt sign a proper contract so time for the 40% gold interest rate

[tall lake]

Yeah right now I'm planning how my characters confront his dad

Cause for context, his dad sold his soul for their kingdom, in exchange my guy got turned into a tiefling

[feral fulcrum]

The solution to his debt problem is murder

[rough basalt]

Start treating the encounters built as having an additional level 3 pc

[tall lake]

Um it's even worse

[rough basalt]

He can certainly try

[tall lake]

The devil was a scubbus

[rough basalt]

I'm not sure if he wants to try and fight Bjornulf the Unclothed tho

Especially not in his lair

When he can use a Lair action to summon the Unclothedables

[feral fulcrum]

Sounds like the perfect moment to pull a Groundskeeper Willy. "Then grease me up woman!"

[limber trail]

Yeah plenty of folks do especially at more RP-intensive tables

[limber trail]

The what

[rough basalt]

The Unclothedables

The debt collectors for the Unclothed Trading Agency

[tall lake]

Yeah I'm excited for my characters moment

[limber trail]

You know what I’m not gonna question it

[feral fulcrum]

Tell me there's not Life Fibers involved.

[rough basalt]

Dunno what those are

Basically Bjornulf the Unclothed is a dude who stopped a mage who killed a shopkeeper in a bazaar in broad daylight and the mage burnt his clothes off so a bard that witnessed it told the story of Bjornulf the Unclothed, protector of the people

[signal basalt]

Is prince of the apocalypse good?

[rough basalt]

He thought it was hilarious so he wanders the desert selling goods from his fathers bag of holding in his underwear with only a helmet on

[rough basalt]

Eh

[signal basalt]

What would you say are the bad sides

[rough basalt]

It's got some good bits but there's no interconnected story really

So you and the PCs will need to come up with reasons to do the adventure and keep doing it

[errant crag]

It's very much a Sandbox adventure

Doesn't really have a narrative throughline it's very open ended

[rough basalt]

I remember being told the dungeons can be kinda fun but can get repetitive

[signal basalt]

Ahhh so you just gotta add plot

[feral fulcrum]

Sentient Alien clothing from Kill La Kill, relavant to the subejct only because of the group that fights against them ditching clothes because woops all alien clothing or something along those lines.

[rough basalt]

Its the FR version of the old Temple of Elemental Evil adventure from old DnD so its almost entirely focused on going through dungeons

[errant crag]

I freaking love dungeons!!!!

[rough basalt]

Ah i only ever watched episode 1 but thats hilarious

[errant crag]

I honestly gotta try running it

[signal basalt]

This is like my first year playing DnD so I’m not very familiar I was just seeing cool like stories and I like evil princes

[rough basalt]

They're not really "Princes" I dont think

[errant crag]

I prefer evil princesses

[feral fulcrum]

Fierna!

[signal basalt]

Ooooo

[feral fulcrum]

And whatever her friend's name is.

[rough basalt]

Its an Elemental bad guy adventure

[feral fulcrum]

And not a good one, since I never see it mentioned.

Apperently it's quite mediocre.

[rough basalt]

Yeah it was made by Green Ronin

[feral fulcrum]

Which for something revolving around the plot of starting the apocalypse... is pretty damming

[rough basalt]

SCAG and OotA people

[errant crag]

It seems like a very mechanics forward adventure, much less about roleplay and story and more about crunchy combats and dungeon crawls/exploration

[feral fulcrum]

It probably doesn't help that Elemental statblocks are...kind of doodoo

[errant crag]

I gotta break it to my starter set players that I may just not be the style of DM for the type of campaign they're wanting to play after the starter set ends

[knotty vine]

The only elemental stats I like are the scions

[errant crag]

They want really roleplay and narrative heavy games, and I'm very much a combat and dungeon crawls DM. I can roleplay my heart out but I can't really set up or weave a satisfying narrative, and I want to try and do more mechanically in depth things in my games going forward like tracking carry weight and XP; and I don't think that's the kind of things they're wanting out of a campaign following the starter set.

[knotty vine]

Also I have a question

[feral fulcrum]

We may hold an answer

[knotty vine]

Can you suffocate a creature that doesnt need to breathe?

[errant crag]

No

They don't need to breathe

[knotty vine]

Thats what the barbarian kept trying to do to a zombie today

[feral fulcrum]

If they don't need to breathe, then no, they can't suffocate, because to suffocate means you rquire to breathe.

[knotty vine]

very entertaining to watch

As a dm I mean

[feral fulcrum]

It's like trying to cut the head off the Headless Horseman, an obviously pointless, impossible task

[severe rampart]

I mean, if it's undead, no you can't suffocate it, but if it doesn't need to breathe, to just breathe, you can probably restrict blood from going to their head

[knotty vine]

I really wanna run the "everyone dies" book at level 5 but I really dont them killing the big bad

[feral fulcrum]

Which, it's a zombie, I don't think it cares if it has blood in it's head.

[severe rampart]

Yeah, that's why I said if it's an undead you can't suffocate it

[strange swift]

Sisyphus pushing the boulder

[feral fulcrum]

Most of them have giant holes in them, and most of their juices already oozed out.

[errant crag]

I don't think there are rules for restricting blood flow to the brain

[knotty vine]

Pretty sure the only undeads that have active blood are vampires

[errant crag]

That sounds like unarmed attacks while grappling

[severe rampart]

I don't think there are rules for choking someone too though?

[woven flint]

Well, folks...
Kas offered to turn my Drow Celestial Warlock into a vampire.

[knotty vine]

There are

[errant crag]

There are suffocation rules

[strange swift]

Conquest vs invincible 🤔

[severe rampart]

Wth there are?

[knotty vine]

Yeah?

[severe rampart]

Oh suffocation rules, ah

[rough basalt]

Our Warlock is gonna make a deal with Kas cause hes hot

[prime basin]

Technically no but you could say “you have con modifier worth of rounds before you get choked out”

[errant crag]

They don't seem to really deal with strangling or suffocating somebody though as much as they do drowning and such

[severe rampart]

Yeah, but you don't need to have rules for everything

[errant crag]

And running out of air in a bag of holding

[severe rampart]

reminds me of that one person who came in here and asked if any other group roleplayed bathroom breaks in-character

[knotty vine]

Theres no rules for strangling but there are rules for suffocation

[errant crag]

Wild

[prime basin]

Thats true but the thing about those is they take a few minutes to do

[errant crag]

Yeah they do

[prime basin]

strangling is much quicker

[severe rampart]

10 minutes or so, right?

[lean wigeon]

roll CON to see how well you poop

[prime basin]

I believe so

[severe rampart]

and that is my cue to leave

[errant crag]

Con save or con check?

[prime basin]

holding breath underwater is con modifier

[knotty vine]

a creature can hold its breathe equal to its con mod minium of 30 seconds

so if you have a +3 in con thats 3 mins

[severe rampart]

in a bag of holding?

[knotty vine]

thats after you have to hold your breathe

so its more like 10 mins con mod

in this 13

[prime basin]

bag of holding is just a base of 5-10 minutes i think

[knotty vine]

bag of holding has enough oxygen to keep a creature breathing for 10 mins

But then you can hold your breath

[errant crag]

I'd die so fast in a bag of holding

I can't hold my breath for anything

[knotty vine]

Unless your an Air gen

[errant crag]

I smoke too much

[knotty vine]

They can hold there breath as long as they want

[strange swift]

Main takeaway I’m getting from this is to be a race that doesn’t need to breathe

[knotty vine]

Theres like 3 races that dont need to breathe

[errant crag]

Or be one that can hold it for a long time like Lizardfolk or Tortle

[knotty vine]

Vedalken is also on that list

air gen can do it as long as they arent incapacitated

Might be a shifter ngl

My next character I mean

[rough basalt]

I hope I can hype myself up tomorrow to get started on my next campaign

[knotty vine]

I miss old bearbarian

[flint ledge]

Ooh what kind of campaign is it?

[rough basalt]

Horror campaign.

My first order of business I wanna do is the Landing Page.

[strange swift]

What will the landing page be like

[knotty vine]

Hooks you

[rough basalt]

That's the thing. Idk

Only thing I got so far is it'll have the RE2 Safe Room music playing while it's up.

Thinking I'll make it dark, maybe look like it's lit by candle, some fog.

[cloud bison]

whats the spell that makes your voice loud?

[errant crag]

Thaumaturgy

[cloud bison]

ty

[strange swift]

Is there any standout monsters that will be in the campaign a lot do you think. You could add like a statue of them, maybe even a gargoyle statue that changes spots randomly in the page

[rough basalt]

That would be kinda funny.
Idk if I could do random but I could move it every session.

[strange swift]

You could have like 5 different photos that loop the animation but the only difference with them is the position of the gargoyle 😆
And it could be so far spaced out that they’ll see it when they’re not paying attention and think wth

[strange swift]

Oml you could have it disappear entirely from the landing page and then they run into it mid session

[rough basalt]

Well I'm not that insane with it but these are definitely fun ideas.

[strange swift]

Could have an oiji board esc thing in the landing page too with the magnifier randomly moving around if you could figure that out, could fit the theme

Thunder through the window and what not

[rough basalt]

Animated landing pages are beyond my expertise unfortunately.

I'll come up with something.

[strange swift]

It’ll be awesome

[onyx haven]

Can't it be June already... I wanna see what all they've done to the horror subs since last year. Especially Reanimator.

Hopefully the little zomboid's swipe got buffed.

[errant crag]

I seriously need to run Tomb of Annihilation

I need more brutal hard dungeons to run

Everybody loved Tomb of Horrors and I wanna find or make things with more of that energy, but in a way that's still fun

[tame kelp]

Is it possible to have a dnd campaign that have a plot like this...

A group of players work for laws and justice by becoming personal officers for some judges.

Mainly, players will facing Murder Mystery, Crime Scenes, Investigation, and some fights too.

A lot of puzzles to discover the truth, who is the bbeg?

[errant crag]

Yeah I'm sure you could do that

A mystery/intrigue campaign

You just gotta make sure the players know what kind of game it is, or provide avenues for every class to still be valuable.

It isn't gonna be fun for whoever signs up to play Barbarian if the entire campaign is gonna be doing investigations and talking to people, so it's good to let the players know ahead of time what kind of game they're getting into.

[umbral girder]

Tokii might become a vampire

[woven flint]

Yeap

Nealens got me intrigued because I could do a REAL fallen hero moment lmao

[flint ledge]

I thought tokii already was one with his sleep schedule

[woven flint]

Hey... thats a low blow lmao

[flint ledge]

I'm not wrong though (you should probably fix it )

[woven flint]

How quaint

[flint ledge]

Was that friend request on purpose tokii?

[woven flint]

Perhaps

[flint ledge]

Crazy stuff

[errant crag]

I was told the 2024 DMG had tables for rolling up random dungeon layouts like the 2014 DMG did but I can't find them in the 2024 DMG

[rough basalt]

65-67. They're not as extensive as the 2014 one. That's the one area imo where the 2014 is better.

[errant crag]

I'll have to just keep using 2014 DMG for my dungeon mapping then

[rough basalt]

They're serviceable but the Dungeon crafter in the 2014 DMG was arguably the one area they had the best effort in.

[errant crag]

It's really fun making a random dungeon layout with those tables

You can get some whacky dungeons!

[rough basalt]

I never used it, just took glances.

I probably should.

[errant crag]

I like it, definitely something you may need to steer back on track if your dice decide your players should walk down a mile long hallway

[rough basalt]

I usually just hit the dungeon generator on dungeondraft till I see a shape I like then go from there.

But I'm thinking of getting Dungeon Alchemist.

[errant crag]

Using the dungeon tables makes it feel more personal

[rough basalt]

I'll checkem out

Rn I'm in a bit of a creativity drought

[errant crag]

One of my first PC kills was in a randomly rolled dungeon

[rough basalt]

My existing campaigns I can keep going off what I made and improv but new stuff I'm just drawing nothing but blanks.

[errant crag]

The Champion, Plasmoid Rune Knight Fighter, splattered by an enraged Mouth of Grolantor after he broke free from his cage.

[rough basalt]

Nice.

[errant crag]

It was a tragic scene

[rough basalt]

I almost couldn't find my 2014 DMG

[errant crag]

Blue goo everywhere

[rough basalt]

I got my books scattered all over the place.

[errant crag]

All mine are in a pile on a table outside my room

[rough basalt]

I got 12 books on my computer desk

[errant crag]

I say pile but it's a fairly neat stack

[rough basalt]

7 on my mini-fridge (excluding non-tabletop books)

[lavish flame]

I actually love those tables so much

its beautiful how in-depth it gets

[rough basalt]

Actually 9 on my minifridge

[flint ledge]

Why are you storing books on your mini fridge

[errant crag]

So they don't spoil

[rough basalt]

Then 25 on my Bookshelf (excluding non-tabletop books)

[rough basalt]

Cause I'm disorganized.

Oh right and I have 2 on my bed currentky

The DMGs

[umbral girder]

Yeah put them in the fridge /jk

[rough basalt]

I got a massive mess.

I got 4 board games also on my desk

2 poster things on the minifridge

A drone up there

All my comics on a collectable toy car box with an empty tabletop book sleeve on top of them.

[flint ledge]

How many tabletop books do you own

[rough basalt]

50 or so physically

My poor 90 dollar Sigil Alt box set us underneath three books rn.

Then a few ddb stuff.

It will be increasing too.

[flint ledge]

Flipping 50 😭

[rough basalt]

Getting the Ravenloft ultimate bundle.

[flint ledge]

I don't even have the space for that many books

[rough basalt]

Then getting the next Daggerheart expansion. And keeping on getting old 5e books.

Try to pick up the Fallout NV adventure book.

Ravnica is probably 1st priority on my next old book.

So I can have the last book with character options in it. (Aside from adventure backgrounds)

[shell dove]

Yo who here is in a campaighn and has wild shape

[covert root]

The druids...?

[shell dove]

No dip im asking who here is a druid with wild shape

[tribal night]

So called free thinkers when owlbear + giant buffs

[tribal night]

That is a druid yes

[shell dove]

Nah one word goonballoon

[tribal night]

Druids have wild shape yeah

[covert root]

Literally all druids have wild shape, that's why I answered how I did.

[shell dove]

No its a lvl 3+

[covert root]

2nd.

[tribal night]

Which is honestly worse? Druids with no wildshape or rangers with no companion

[knotty vine]

Theres pletny of druids who can do stuff without wildshape but i still gotta say

Druid

[shell dove]

Dunno but whoever does next time you can in a session turn into a goon Balloon it bypasses the fly speed limit

[knotty vine]

Ranger doesnt need a companion

[tribal night]

Yeah wildshape is really handy

Especially fire myc

I really like fire myrm

[knotty vine]

too many of there subclass need wildshape

[covert root]

I've never once played a Ranger with a companion. Definitely not needed.

[knotty vine]

What?

[tribal night]

Yeah it's not

[covert root]

I didn't answer, because I dunno what that even means.

[knotty vine]

goon ballons dont even have a fly speed

[tribal night]

I subclassed level 8 fighter with 12 druid and it was funny to say the least

[errant crag]

What are you trying to ask about Burger? Lots of people here have played druids before even if they aren't currently

Oh thanks discord for scrolling me down to catch me up

[covert root]

A goon balloon's an aberration, anyway, not a beast.

[shell dove]

So low lvl wildshape cant have fly speed but this is worded to where you can still fly

[knotty vine]

Yeah

[errant crag]

What the hell is a Goon Balloon

[covert root]

Fly Speed is, what, level 8?

[knotty vine]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/2506155-goon-balloon?srsltid=AfmBOoqy9O0abllNm6115kB3X4aIln-hD71MCcDUbvLVPXghO9KG4WhV

[rough basalt]

My question too.

[shell dove]

I cant send msgs here or I would show you

[knotty vine]

Its an alien

you also have to see a goon ballon as well

[woven flint]

That's.. kind of the classes whole gimmick

[knotty vine]

Which I doubt

[delicate owl]

Too many of the Wizard subclasses want you to cast spells 🙁

[knotty vine]

scroll up for context

[rough basalt]

True where's the wizard subclass that let's you work a 9 to 5 at the docks.

[shell dove]

Actually I've met quite a few dms who dont rlly care about that rule

Me included

[tribal night]

With my setup, fire myrm attacked 8 times lmao

[knotty vine]

Ok but another issue is that it still isnt a beast

[covert root]

I'm gonna have to hit you with the, "That's fine and all, but the rules literally say..."

[woven flint]

I know :3

[tribal night]

This is just fighter if you wanna be a cool flaming guy

[covert root]

But yeah, the biggest hurdle is it's an aberration, not a beast. You can't wild shape into that.

[woven flint]

Too many Fighter Subclasses want you to hit things!

[tribal night]

We all love champion multiclass!

[knotty vine]

No

[errant crag]

If you're looking for a wizard subclass for Barbarian/Wizard multiclass I recommend War Wizard subclass from Xanathars Guide to Everything

[tribal night]

How dare you

[flint ledge]

What if instead of hitting things as a fighter you befriended everyone

[knotty vine]

Its going to be bad this time

[tribal night]

Barbarians and fighters arguing who hits stuff harder

[covert root]

The wizard, obviously.

[knotty vine]

Should i be a shifter barbarian

[tribal night]

Potion of haste with sorcerer is kinda crazy ngl

[errant crag]

Yes they make good barbarians

[covert root]

Having done it, it's pretty fun.

[tribal night]

Because you can cast up to 3 spells in 1 turn

[rough basalt]

You can't cast a spell with haste.

[knotty vine]

through does your transformtion still work in while wildshaped?

[tribal night]

Wait wha

[knotty vine]

I casted 4 spells in 1 turn lmao

[tribal night]

Potion of haste is such a scam

[rough basalt]

That's a Baldurs Gate homebrew.

[covert root]

That action can be used to take only the Attack (one attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Utilize action.

Yeah, pretty straightforward.

[tribal night]

Yeah I keep forgetting

[knotty vine]

since the new wording is that the spell just cant use a slot

[tribal night]

Potion of haste in baldur's is funny tho, 3 spells in one turn

Lightning bolt, lightning bolt, lightning bolt

[shell dove]

And I gonna hit you with the dude sybau and just enjoy the fact most people won't actually check

[rough basalt]

A lot of people will

[covert root]

That's fine...? I mean, you do you, boo.

[knotty vine]

Hold person slivery barbs divine smite and scorthing ray

[tribal night]

Or perhaps you prefer SPITFIRE! 20 scorching rays

[flint ledge]

Fire gatling gun

[shell dove]

No actually I have never met a single person that would check a creature block AND know the word for word details of wildshape

[rough basalt]

Then youve only played with the average 5e player that doesn't read I guess.

[knotty vine]

I prefer to do 16d6 + 4d8

[tribal night]

The real gatling gun would be magic missile, 30+ missiles

[feral fulcrum]

Reading is the DM's job/s

[rough basalt]

So if you ever do play with someone that reads I wouldn't whine when they don't let you cheat.

[covert root]

Yeah, not a single table of the 12+ I've been is dense enough not to read that it's obviously beasts, and that there's no fly speed until later.

[knotty vine]

I mean the new titan druid would get a fly speed at level 3

[rough basalt]

No fly speed I can see missing, but Beasts you're more likely to see players misunderstanding Monstrosities as Beasts than thinking it's anything.

[vagrant notch]

For a level 4 wizard do u think its wise to choose asi instead of general feat to maximize my int

[flint ledge]

I actually don't think it takes knowing wildshape word for word to know it only works for beasts and I also don't think you need to check the stat block to know that something called a goon balloon isn't an animal

[errant crag]

Goon Balloon

[knotty vine]

Goon ballon

[covert root]

Nothing quite says primal nature like a bloody 'goon balloon'. Come on, mate.

[errant crag]

"DM I wild shape into a Goon Balloon"
"What the hell is a Goon Balloon"

This line of questioning gets your Goon Balloon sussed out pretty quick

[feral fulcrum]

You want free Reckless Attacks? Then yes.

[rough basalt]

Yeah I think its gotta be obvious that freaking Goon Balloon ain't an animal.

[knotty vine]

Im wondering if there shifter ability works in wild shape through'

[shell dove]

Dude have you actually seen the names of things that should by beast but arent

[tribal night]

Anyone who uses level 7 magic missile; why?

[rough basalt]

Yeah and all the Beasts that are Beasts make sense.

[knotty vine]

Beast are things have existed on earth

or that currently exist

usually

[rough basalt]

The ones that aren't Beasts either originated from other planes or magic.

[feral fulcrum]

If your racial/class features are not specifficaly restricted, like Polymorph or the like, then yes

[flint ledge]

Beasts are literally just actual animals you could meet on earth at some point

[knotty vine]

I just hit the jack pot

[shell dove]

Dude plenty of magic beasts exist

[knotty vine]

Even the magical beast are pretty much the same

[rough basalt]

Like an Owlbear was made when a Wizard merged a Owl and a Bear together.

[errant crag]

Fun fact the majority of instances of Goon Balloon being said in this channel have been said in the last 15 minutes

[flint ledge]

Those are monstrosities not beasts

[knotty vine]

But they are Still animals for the most part

[tribal night]

Why are we talking about how goonballoon isn't an animal, this is so stupid

[errant crag]

It's only been said 4 times before this conversation

[knotty vine]

No there were a few magical beast that could cast spells

[covert root]

I mean, go off, but the fact remains: it's not a beast. It's genuinely reaching to think any Dungeon Master who even remotely has knowledge of how druids and Wild Shape works would routinely allow it across all tables.

[shell dove]

Also on the topic of misleading creature names a thing called a nightmare BEAST is classified as a monstrosity

[feral fulcrum]

Name me some magical Beasts, because off the top of my head, I can only remember Beasts being general animals, and anthing weirder or bigger falling into categories like Monstrosity and the like.

[rough basalt]

Yeah DMs probably never read a book.

[knotty vine]

Becuase its not a normal beast

[rough basalt]

There's a Mace called a Mace of Smiting and it doesn't smite.

[knotty vine]

But that was 2014 2024 fixxed that

[shell dove]

I know they exist but I dont have my books rn to name them

[feral fulcrum]

Ah, Dire wolves are one.

[covert root]

Names are misleading, but that's why we have 'creature types', which Wild Shape distinctly points out.

[feral fulcrum]

Could have sworn those were Monstrosities, but, apperetnyl recalled wrong

[tribal night]

Yes ofc lemme wildshape as a freakin mindflayer, of course

[flint ledge]

Direwolves fall under what I like to call a beast but bigger

[shell dove]

That violates cr limit

[rough basalt]

It's cause they're prehistoric I think

Not actually made from magic.

[flint ledge]

Oh yeah direwolves were a thing at some point

[covert root]

I mean, they were real creatures. Nothing fantastical about it.

[feral fulcrum]

I mean it smites, it just doesn't SMITE Reverb goes here

[knotty vine]

theres an underdark creature that can cast dancing lights

[rough basalt]

Yep and if it doesn't bwahhhhh then it doesn't smite. /j

[tribal night]

Obviously wildshapes are limited, you cannot wildshape to a spectator.

[errant crag]

Chill Touch doesn't do cold damage and wasn't a touch spell in 5e until 2024 revisions

A spectator isn't a beast

[severe rampart]

What are spectators

[shell dove]

Yes it makes sense when you read its desc dude

[rough basalt]

Beholderkin

[errant crag]

Little crappy beholders

[rough basalt]

They're smaller and more reasonable

[severe rampart]

Halfling Beholders

[feral fulcrum]

And I presume just as eyeball centric

[tribal night]

By logic mindflayers are animals, but obviously you can't wildshape as them

[rough basalt]

Ye they have less eyestalks too

[errant crag]

Just like it makes sense that you can't wildshape into a goon balloon when you read wildshape and think about a goon balloon

[shell dove]

Its not temp chill its like a chill down your spine like seeing death or something

[knotty vine]

in 2014 chill touch had a range of 120ft

[rough basalt]

I don't think they have an eye cone effect

They're pretty low CR like 2 or 3

[feral fulcrum]

Well, no, by Logic Mindflayers are either Aliens, or Eldritch Entities more then anything.

[rough basalt]

Mindflayers are definitely not animals lol

[errant crag]

Hey guys I found this cool Strat you can make your Greataxe do 2d12 damage if you lie to your DM and they never bother to check the actual stats of the weapon

[tribal night]

Let's see... the larva being tadpoles, they evolve into mindflayers... frogs aren't animals?

[feral fulcrum]

Animals implies they're a naturaly part of the world, and generally non-inteligent.

[knotty vine]

through humans

[rough basalt]

Any living being.

[knotty vine]

also animals have an int of 3 more often then not

[tribal night]

Yes a parasite, botflies aren't animals?

[shell dove]

I just think its stupid that monstrosities are labeled as a bridge between magic and beasts but aren't allowed to be wielded by a magic nature hippe

[rough basalt]

But ideally humanoids and humanoid-likes.

[feral fulcrum]

Whereas Mindflayers are Psychic brain-eating monsters that come from the Astral Plane/outer planes.

[shell dove]

I thought their dogs were the brain eaters

[errant crag]

It's for balance reasons, my DM gave my fellow player the ability to wildshape into monstrosities and it had really disgusting balance implications even following normal CR rules

[tribal night]

With this in mind yeah they aren't animals

[rough basalt]

It's cause monstrosity is a blanket term for a lot of monsters and there'd be a lot of unbalanced wild shapes if monstrosities were allowed.

[tribal night]

But what about dragons? They come from the first world

[knotty vine]

Owlbear for example

[feral fulcrum]

Yes and no. Mind-flayers don't litteraly eat your brain, but they do pretty much suck out everything that makes a person a person to snack on it. Leaving a brain-dead husk

And that's if you're lucky.

[rough basalt]

Dragons are Dragons.

[knotty vine]

wrong

[tribal night]

Oh mb

Where do dragons come from in DnD? I'm not familiar

[knotty vine]

Io

[shell dove]

Yea I guess but even without it wild shape is broken like the hp and dmg of normal creatures far outclasses a normal lvl2

[tribal night]

Ah ok

[errant crag]

My friends druid was a moon druid so had a higher CR limit and yeah being able to turn into a Skulk was pretty unbalanced

[knotty vine]

They arent native to Abirl Toril

[tribal night]

With that in mind would dragons be considered as not animals?

[feral fulcrum]

If you're unlucky, you end up a disembodied head with an exposed brain, milked for psychic power and knowledge and bullied for funsies.

[rough basalt]

Dragons aren't animals.

[errant crag]

They're dragons

[knotty vine]

Dragons are dragons

[shell dove]

I like the savanna or desert cus of the subclass spells

[errant crag]

Not beasts

[feral fulcrum]

If you're really unlucky you end up another mindflayer.

[tribal night]

Dragon nu- (I'm sorry)

[rough basalt]

Even the dumbest dragon is as smart as the average person.

[errant crag]

I also like circle of the land Druid

[severe rampart]

That Incredibles meme

[shell dove]

I guess

[tribal night]

Fair

[feral fulcrum]

That reminds me, god I hope Solar Dragons get new art

They look like big, ugly fish instead of Dragons

[tribal night]

Wait if it's about intelligence

[knotty vine]

They do live in a sun

[severe rampart]

I don't really like Druids, why turn to animals when you can turn to people (Changeling)

[tribal night]

Why aren't goblins animals?

[rough basalt]

Because they're people.

[knotty vine]

Because they are from the feywild

[errant crag]

Because they're people

[severe rampart]

Because they're a playable species

[feral fulcrum]

And that means they have to look like mutant fish horribly disfigured by radiation?

[knotty vine]

Goblins can use bows arrows and weapons and such

[tribal night]

Btw don't worry I won't use humans are animals logic

[knotty vine]

They arent in dnd

[vale kettle]

What are we talking about?

[severe rampart]

If we're talking real world, humans are animals

[knotty vine]

a specific creature type representing nonhumanoid, natural animals, dinosaurs, and giant animal variants that are part of the fantasy ecology. They usually have low intelligence, no language, and are generally non-magical, serving as fundamental, mundane creatures in the world

[vale kettle]

We are mammals …

[tribal night]

Well what about fire myrm? They use a sword

[errant crag]

Someone making bad faith arguments for why creatures like Mindflayers and Goblins should be animals for Wildshape

[rough basalt]

In DnD we're an invasive species.

[tribal night]

Nono not that logic

[severe rampart]

In D&D, humans are humanoid, not animals

[severe rampart]

In real life too

[vale kettle]

Well yeah

[knotty vine]

I dont think a fire myrm is a beast then

[errant crag]

I am a human

[rough basalt]

Nah we're just top of the evolutionary chain.

[tribal night]

Wth are you saying? No the hell I am not, do better storytelling

[vale kettle]

Animal creatures are considered beasts

[severe rampart]

Sir, this is a DnD's

[feral fulcrum]

Fire Myrm is an Elemental

[tribal night]

Well you can wildshape as fire myrms

[knotty vine]

How?

[feral fulcrum]

I think technically Moon druid could

[errant crag]

This story writes itself

[feral fulcrum]

Since Moon Druids eventually get access to Elementals

[rough basalt]

2014 Moon Druid they allowed to turn into Elementals at level 10 cause they didn't know what to do with it.

[knotty vine]

wrong

[feral fulcrum]

Uh, not wrong

[rough basalt]

Or rather specifically a few Elementals.

[knotty vine]

its only elementals nothing else

No its just the basic fire water and other two elementals

[errant crag]

Can they turn into CR 7 creatures? Not familiar with moon druid

[knotty vine]

this was confirmed in 2014 sage advice

[rough basalt]

Moon Druid has the same cap CR6 they just have a higher floor to wildshape

[knotty vine]

They cant turn into certain elemntals only the fire listed fire water earth and air

[feral fulcrum]

roger roger

[errant crag]

Shucks

[rough basalt]

Moon Druid in '14 was very much a
Terror for the first 4 levels then negligible for rest of game.

[tribal night]

Yeah, I am curious what draws the line of this can be wildshaped or not wildshaped

Or rather what is an animal or not

[errant crag]

If it says Beast as it's creature type

[knotty vine]

Does the druid’s Elemental Wild Shape limit you to the four creatures listed, or can you turn into any creature with the elemental type?
The creatures listed in Elemental Wild Shape—air, earth, fire, and water elementals—are specific creatures in the Monster Manual , not creature types or subtypes. Elemental Wild Shape allows you to transform into one of those creatures.

[feral fulcrum]

Which is how it goes for somethign fixated on Wildshaping

[vale kettle]

Cr and creature type? I mean its self explanatory

[rough basalt]

If something is naturally born from the getgo. It's a Beast.

[knotty vine]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/sac/sage-advice-compendium#SA016

[feral fulcrum]

Wildshaping does not...do well at mid to high levels.

[tribal night]

True but elementals are elementals

[knotty vine]

It doesnt

[vale kettle]

Yeah, what about it?

[knotty vine]

read what I just put

[rough basalt]

That elemental feature was mainly just a slap on iirc

[knotty vine]

It was

You cant turn into like a water meph for example

[feral fulcrum]

The Typings tell you what a thing is, and what decides that is mostly basic logic.

[knotty vine]

Only the air water earth and fire elementals

[tribal night]

Ah quite silly

[rough basalt]

A lot of high level features in 2014 felt like they were just slapped on to fill a spot.

[feral fulcrum]

Beasts = Material Plane Animals commonly found, Elementals = Elemental beings from the Elemental planes, Monstrosities = Weird crap that a Wizard proabbly made

[tribal night]

Druids are just a silly class in the end of the day

[feral fulcrum]

So on, so forth.

[knotty vine]

I just say beast are almost anything you could find on planet earth past or present

[rough basalt]

Yeah Monstrosity is a blanket term for something that wouldn't have existed naturally.

[errant crag]

They were the least played class last time they polled it IIRC

[tribal night]

Then again, something about attacking 8 times as fire myrm is hilarious to me

Fighter with extra steps

[feral fulcrum]

Druids are fairly boring compared to other classes

[knotty vine]

True

Thats coming from someone who uses to play human fighter

[vale kettle]

No draconic druid yet whomp whomp

[rough basalt]

They also require a good bit more reading than the average 5e player can stomach

[tribal night]

When you have ranger or any other magic class, they summon the elemental anyway

[knotty vine]

picks stars and just spams guiding bolt

[rough basalt]

Hey that's a lot of reading

You should make your dm remember that /j

[feral fulcrum]

Like, you're not an amazing caster, you're not an amazing martial, your core feature stops being all that helpful past like level 8, if not sooner, and eventually spells just do what you do...but substantially better and more interestingly?

[errant crag]

Behemoth Druid UA looks really cool

[knotty vine]

Titan druid needs some work

Its really weak

[feral fulcrum]

I HOPE Titan Druid actually sticks

[knotty vine]

Fun but weak

[errant crag]

Yeah it didn't seem like it scaled very well but is still very cool

[tribal night]

Buuuut... you become the lorax

[feral fulcrum]

I was so sad we lost Primeval Druid

[errant crag]

What was Primeval Druid around

[knotty vine]

Primeval was ahead of its time

[feral fulcrum]

Yeah Primeval sucked too stat wise, but, I want my big stompy bois.

[knotty vine]

Using the forest even more

[feral fulcrum]

Customizable Big Monster

[tribal night]

Not as silly as githyanki bard

Githyanki bard isn't bad it's just hilarious

[knotty vine]

One stupid thing that I know its a real is that druids cant wear metal armor

[feral fulcrum]

It was potentially going to end up in Bigby's Big Book of Big Bois but didn't make the cut

[tribal night]

You have so many mobility options yet you choose to run away instead of closing distance

Githyanki bard experience

[feral fulcrum]

presumably because it playtested bad, because the stats sucked, and they already had 20 pet subclasses in the pipeline

[knotty vine]

shepard druid

I still dont like the wording of old conjure spells tbh

[tribal night]

Great weapon master goblin my beloved

[knotty vine]

Cause either they under preform or over preform depending on dm

[severe rampart]

Goblin Paladin

[feral fulcrum]

What do you mean 30 wolves with their own turns each isn't a good idea?

[tribal night]

His backstory is definitely being bullied fr

[severe rampart]

Nick Wilde backstory

[errant crag]

I agree that those spells were problematic but I didn't like how they changed them. I think they could have done something else.

[severe rampart]

They put a muzzle on him oh my poor boy 😔

[errant crag]

Cloud of AoE damage doesn't feel like I'm conjuring woodland creatures

[feral fulcrum]

Cloud of BEEEEES

[knotty vine]

One dumb issue in 2014 about small creatures with heavy weapon was they just always had disvatange when using them

[tribal night]

"Look! I'm drawn as a hero! One day I wish to protect the weak in need."
"Huh? BEING STUPID EH AND SPEAK PROPERLEE."

[severe rampart]

Never knew woodland creatures dealt 5d8 damage

[knotty vine]

Doesnt matter what your strength was

You just have disadvangte now

[feral fulcrum]

It was a stupid holdover from prior editions

when Size actually mattered alot

[knotty vine]

That might be the same reason why theres no tiny race

[feral fulcrum]

And decided what you could wear and fight with, and how much damage you dealt.

[severe rampart]

"you can't be a paladin! You're a goblin!"

While the other kids are pretending to be knights, he's always the one who has to play the evil villain because he's a goblin

[knotty vine]

I still think the goblin from volo's and the goblins from mordens are two diffrent things

[feral fulcrum]

And DND nixed that entirely, for a One Size Fits Everything Automagically style...and then said "Actually screw Small Charecters for No Raisin."

[errant crag]

I would have maybe had it summon three small clouds of AoE damage that each fill a 5ft space and damage enemies near them but can be moved individually on their turn, just to make them feel more like separate creatures; and make it so a creature can't be damaged by more than one of them in a turn. Maybe something like that.

[flint ledge]

But quite frankly summoning 8 wolves is not particularly balanced

[tribal night]

He is def a villain in the goblin's eyes. And when he leaves for the real world, he will also be mistreated as a goblin 🥀

[errant crag]

You should read my message I sent shortly before that

[knotty vine]

The morden book gave goblins a more fey backstory rather then just being green little evil guys

[tribal night]

Truely cruel world for this paladin goblin

[vale kettle]

I wouldn’t say its about balance but more of initiative clog

[feral fulcrum]

It at least explains all the fey Goblinoids like Redcaps.

[vale kettle]

Dnd is not balanced

[knotty vine]

true!

[tribal night]

That's why we have homebrew

[knotty vine]

I love how broken the game can be rules as written through

IE dhampier hexbloods reborns beings able to fly in heavy armor

An angel

[tribal night]

Gravity magic fr

[vale kettle]

Yeah but even that can be busted, if the dm is fresh and makes it without understanding game fundamentals or the player

[feral fulcrum]

Ramiel? screams Geometrically

[knotty vine]

Nah its just the strange wording of there linage

[tribal night]

It's rough to make it ideal for everyone

[errant crag]

I find RAW much more consistently balanced than Homebrew. It has its sore spots but generally it's fine if the DM isn't ignoring a ton of rules that are important to balance.

[knotty vine]

Ancestral Legacy. If you replace a race with this lineage, you can keep the following elements of that race: any skill proficiencies you gained from it and any climbing, flying, or swimming speed you gained from it.

[tribal night]

As long as I get hatsune miku companion I don't need much homebrew

[knotty vine]

See how it says that you just have a fly speed

[vale kettle]

For simulacrum spam i used al rules for simulacrum to avoid nonesense

[errant crag]

If you replace a race with this lineage

[feral fulcrum]

This is because RAW is both Playtested, and designed by...actual game designers, over a substantially long period of time