dnd-discussion

[humble cairn]

Compliment how though?

I just talked about how this is super messy, trying to make everything "optional."

Tasha's was a bandaid, and it led to the ruleset being fractured, optional, and every table shaving the the line in different places.

[glass granite]

My question is, what’s wrong with 2024 trying to seperate itself? It’s an update, after all, not an alternate ruleset.

[inner silo]

Also, stronger monk

[glass granite]

Stronger monkkkk

[inner silo]

And stronger ranger

[humble cairn]

The optional rules were good, but they were never more than a bandaid for a ten year old system.

[burnt valley]

I hope 6e has more better written and defined rules, leaving everything up to the DM is a tradition that should be left in the past

[shadow vapor]

debatable

[humble cairn]

I mean disagreed.

[inner silo]

2014 ranger had a bunch of abilities that were very niche

[humble cairn]

And horribly designed (Primeval Awareness)

[flint ledge]

That's very debatable

[stoic haven]

Mornin

[glass granite]

G’night

[remote wadi]

Probably also some more room for customization and expression. One thing I did hate was how 5 and 5.5 felt a bit limiting

[burnt valley]

Actually, they should also get to work on fixing certain broken rulings

[inner silo]

If making a ranger that way they should focus more time into making travel and ig expliration more fun and have well defined rules

[glass granite]

I personally find the hiding in 2024 kinda iffy, or maybe I just don’t understand it

[burnt valley]

And the fact that there are subclasses that are heavily reliant on DM fiat like Mastermind and 2014 Assassin rogue

[humble cairn]

We only just got a big update on the rules. If you're going to just be hoping for a next edition, that means you're not enjoying the game that's in front of you.

[stoic haven]

I usually use all of Tashas variant rules

[shadow vapor]

Bro I love new monk, old monk was so trash lol

[inner silo]

Don't hide, face the enemy head on like a true warrior

[remote wadi]

They should also get to work creating something passionate instead of trying to rival Eric Cartman's million dollar schemes

[burnt valley]

They should also make martials stronger, give them easier access to oversized weapons or something

[tall forge]

Honestly, player side i dont see any big enough changes to hate it

[humble cairn]

Oh absolutely, that's one of my gripes with the new rules. It needs so much clarification.

[glass granite]

It was still fun imo, overhated tbh

[tall forge]

Maybe paladin, if you REALLY liked nova

[burnt valley]

True, they peaked at 3.5e

[inner silo]

Weren't paladins way imbalanced in 5e and too op?

[tall forge]

Yesnt

[humble cairn]

So to go back to this point, they did this. It was fine, but it was messy. An overhaul to the base rules was needed for clarity.

[shadow vapor]

I never played it lol, I just saw it after playing new monk and was like "D4?" before never looking again.

[inner silo]

Or rather divine smite

[tall forge]

Regular paladin was pretty strong, but blew all their reaources 5 seconds in

If you were a sorcedan you solve that issue, but are a little squishier

[stoic haven]

New monk is sooooo much fun

[glass granite]

Yeah they were really strong for a really short amount of time

[humble cairn]

5E is probably the second most balanced edition out of all the editions of D&D. Yes, there are certainly gaps and differences, but none of them made any class unplayably powerful or weak.

[remote wadi]

I've made the suggestion before of making weapons have better and more unique effects instead of a weapon mastery. It failed at making expressions easier and just made everyone scramble to pick up Sap, Vex, Nick, and Topple

[inner silo]

Alrighty

[tall forge]

Like, that one boss if your paladin has never used a smite?

[burnt valley]

Because I really am not, the DM has way too much power in this system because of how certain rulings are open ended enough to let DMs to make some kind of bs interpretation of it

[tall forge]

Obliterated

The secret boss behind him?

[inner silo]

Wasn't monk pretty weak in 5e?

[burnt valley]

In fact, I may be thinking of leaving my DM's campaign before session 1 starts in favour of a better system

[tall forge]

Paladin is now equivalent to a barbarian

[humble cairn]

Which is not a problem if you actually like communicate with your DM and come to an agreement?

[remote wadi]

Ranger was also fun, but quite reliant on Tasha's. And the DM to know what they're doing

[humble cairn]

Not as weak as people like to portray them. All monk needed was some tweaks and now they're fine.

[inner silo]

I see

[burnt valley]

Its not exactly a one and done fix, if the DM insists, there is nothing you can do but cast Find Greater Table

[tall forge]

I mean, the dm should have power and control? A good dm is just…. Not bad with that power

[inner silo]

Weapon masteries was also a really really great change

[tall forge]

Having a bad dm isnt a system thing

[stoic haven]

Monks were not weak per se, just like ranger, a few iffy features, and the scaling was a little off imo

[inner silo]

Getting more damage/debuffing enemies/getting aoe/usable dualwielding are all great

[flint ledge]

This just sounds like an issue between you and your DM

[glass granite]

I do think weapon masteries were a good step in the right direction, though I’d like to see more properties in future books

[tall forge]

Like, if that dm ran a different system you wouldnt solve your problem

If you just wanna play a different system obviously go do that

[remote wadi]

I disagree. It didn't fix the overwhelming weapon gravitations, it only changed which weapons would be gravitated towards

[inner silo]

Making eich weapon feel more unique outside flavour or damage type would be great

[humble cairn]

No class was that far from the middle ground of balance in 2014, even despite some pain points. Everything was fine and playable, you only really noticed differences if your party was going super hardcore and requiring optimization to survive, which is not how most tables play. And probably not how it was intended to play considering how many weird exploits and stereotypically genre defying builds that were considered "meta."

[remote wadi]

This is more or less my stance. Flails being a decent example of wasted potential

[tall forge]

Play for fun, not for optimization and you wont have that problem 😎

[glass granite]

I’ve seen some players get great value out of push too

[inner silo]

It helps martials get some level of utility during battle outside of pure dpr so it's great. Also usable dual wielding

[mighty brook]

Can 1 player play with 1 dm, is it good?

[tall forge]

Sure

[glass granite]

You can, I just wouldn’t recommend it

[marble lion]

it is different and for some people wouldnt be fun

[humble cairn]

Uhh yeah, communication isn't a one and done thing, it's something you have to do constantly. That's .. how it works.

[inner silo]

It was a good change, it just didn't fix literally everything, but it fixed some stuff

[remote wadi]

With a few DMPCs

[flint ledge]

Aka no one will ever play a whip unless you give them a magic whip that does like double or triple the normal damage

[marble lion]

i played it without any DMPCs

[mighty brook]

What's DMPCs?

[humble cairn]

Weapon Masteries gave martial characters more tactical options, which is what they sorely needed.

[tall forge]

Dungeon master player characters

[marble lion]

player characters made and controlled by the DM but i recommend not doing that actually

[remote wadi]

I suppose that is a fair point, I'll give it that

[shadow vapor]

bro why do dnd cats have a 7 in charisma? it should like 20 bareminim they literally manipulate you passively, New buff: upon seeing a cat you must make a wisdom saving throw or be completed to pet and give haft of your rations if you have more then 20 rations available

[humble cairn]

Actually whips aren't bad.

[marble lion]

id recommend having one character as the DM, a companion, while the player has the most choice and their own character

you naturally will take a backseat role as you know the plot of the adventure

[glass granite]

I like using them on monks but that’s about it

[tall forge]

As a cat owner, this is objectively false

[remote wadi]

Characters played by the DM that are part of your party

[tall forge]

My cat annoys me into stuff, this is a test of will

[mighty brook]

Oooo

[inner silo]

Our paladin rolls pretty terribly but now his greatsword does damage even on a miss which has helped us a bunch and the paladin player doesn't get as upset when missing

[humble cairn]

You're very oddly passionate about fixing the cat statblock.

[glass granite]

I wouldn’t recommend DMPC’s personally.

[marble lion]

the RP is a lot more awkward in a 1on1 for me so when we played it was tongueincheek goofing around while following the serious story

[flint ledge]

I honestly don't like having companion npcs at all

[inner silo]

Wisdom save?

[marble lion]

this is specifically about being a solo player

[shadow vapor]

I love cats

[marble lion]

this is not about DMPCs in a normal game

[shadow vapor]

lol

[glass granite]

Would it still not have the same problem of stealing spotlight, if not more so?

[marble lion]

no

[remote wadi]

It isn't the greatest thing in the world, tbh. You go from an average damage of about 10 on hit to 3 on a miss. But it being somewhat free does help some

[glass granite]

Unless this is closer to a sidekick archetype

[marble lion]

i think the benefit of it in a solo game is FAR greater

[inner silo]

They just shouldn't be treated as full party members by the dm imo

[marble lion]

in a normal game, DMPCs have barely any benefit to offer while presenting the full risk

in a 1on1, you are playing coop with your player

you are there as a kinda player, not just a DM

[inner silo]

Idk about average damage or numbers but our paladin is much more happy now and the enemies are more dead

[marble lion]

its a completely different dynamic because of that

[mighty brook]

So play both Player and DM, correct?

[tall forge]

Kinda

[remote wadi]

Hard to describe the itch I have to play a PbP that worked similar to the type of RPGs you see in anime. So far, I only really saw it with AI

[marble lion]

DMPCs in a solo game dont feel like "we are 4 guys but the DM wants his guy to get attention despite us all being here"
it just feels like youre having fun with your friend

[tender fossil]

I beg to disagree. They tend to have so much plot armor you can use them for cover. If you find yourself in a game with a DMPC, take the term human shield quite literally

[glass granite]

Coop of a game you control? I feel like it might be easy to have the player feel like they lose a lot of power. Idk tho, I’ve never done it, so this is just from my perspective. If it works it works.

[tall forge]

PbP?

[marble lion]

a joke i assume?

[marble lion]

you have to be very conscious of this yes

[remote wadi]

Play by Post. In laymans terms, texting

[tall forge]

Ah, never been a fan

[marble lion]

but otherwise its literally just a guy running through levels

dnd without any party seems kinda boring to me

[tall forge]

It depends what youre there for

[marble lion]

and tbh i wouldnt 1on1 with someone if i wasnt close enough to WANT that cooperation play

[remote wadi]

It would be fun to have at least one campaign to be in

[tall forge]

Some people like roleplaying with NPCs or combat enough

[inner silo]

It could be fun as a oneshot, to test out a character for a full campaign

[tender fossil]

It got the DM to realize what he was doing when I used his elf to Dodge arrows

[inner silo]

Like test the build and how it feels to play them

[marble lion]

1on1 games in my experience usually happen between people who are very close and wanna spend time together in a fantasy

[tall forge]

But there are way better systems than dnd for a 1on1 game

[marble lion]

at which point, there is both the trust not to ruin the game by maincharactering the DMPC, and also the desire to be directly involved

[remote wadi]

And unfortunately, that is past a dying art and are probably out of range of a Raise Dead by now

[marble lion]

i had great fun running my DMPC monk along a fighter in mines of phandelver 1on1

i took a backseat on the decisions and played it as fair as i could imagine

[remote wadi]

I wonder what it would take to find a good DM for that

[marble lion]

never felt like a problem to me

[inner silo]

I wish druids could get weapon masteries

[tall forge]

A good friend works

Aka it just takes communication

[marble lion]

actually its kinda like playing warhammer killteam coop

[tall forge]

Like 80% of problems in dnd

[south prawn]

I believe the whole intention of them is to bolster martial classes though, spellcasters don’t need them

[inner silo]

That's true, it's actually good, i just want my shillelagh to be more op

[tall forge]

Trying to lessen the martial caster divide

Which i appreciate a lot

[knotty pasture]

Beating people with sticks is funny

[inner silo]

Might have to take a ranger dip perhaps

Or a fighter dip

[tall forge]

Letting martials do stuff that isnt “hit guy. Hit guy again”

Is a great direction

[inner silo]

Cleave is especially great imo

In terms of utility and it just feels badass to slice through two enemies at once

[faint thicket]

I mean I am all for buffing martials but this is just homebrew, it doesn't lessen the divide, it just means you aren't really playing 5e anymore

[pliant sapphire]

Something like the battlemaster mechanics would be good

[serene jolt]

Based on this convo I just had, I made a decision. I talked to the DM and he's letting me switch between characters. When we have our sorcerer, I will be my druid. When we don't, I'll be my sorcerer.

Ranger can fill in the gaps if he wants to while I'm a sorcerer.

We'll do with that.

[inner silo]

It's 5.5e, yes

[tall forge]

Yeah…. Its 5.5e

[inner silo]

That's the next step of evolution probably

[tall forge]

Jinx. You owe me a dice

[inner silo]

Sounds interesting

[dapper cloud]

It’s only jinx if it’s the exact same text.

[inner silo]

But I don't know where to send it😭

[tall forge]

Into the void. Ill find it

[inner silo]

Oki👍

[tall forge]

My hunger for dice will lead the way….

[faint thicket]

Semantics, still doesn't change the fact that you aren't really playing the same game anymore

[tall forge]

Yep

[inner silo]

Bg3 spoliers ||is it the same issue as gale?||

[tall forge]

Thats how updates work

[tall forge]

the orb…..

[inner silo]

The cube perhaps

[tall forge]

The dodecahedron….

[dapper cloud]

“You’re playing Dwantrail? Then you’re not playing Final Fantasy XIV anymore.”

[inner silo]

The funny thing with edges…

[halcyon bison]

Maybe the orb is just one of those big d100s

[tall forge]

Its a d♾️

[inner silo]

Most definitely

[serene jolt]

I'd rather focus on one because I know one of my characters will be behind the rest in money and magic items but 🤷 Maybe we can make it work. Maybe I'll go full time one of my characters and let the party sink or swim 🤣

We'll see how it goes!

[inner silo]

That or it's the friends we've made along the way

[dapper cloud]

I have a brass d100 I never bring to games because I think it might genuinely hurt someone.

[halcyon bison]

Orbs are for pondering

[tall forge]

I sadly am online

So i never get to use my die 😔

[inner silo]

Casters who use an orb as a focus must hate hills

[halcyon bison]

Someone should make a d4 out of a caltrop
This will not have any adverse consequences whatsoever

[inner silo]

I still roll them in my online games sometimes

[tall forge]

Im a dm, and want my players to see how screwed they are

:)

[dapper cloud]

I roll them physically as an online DM as my version of the DM screen, lmao.

[inner silo]

I've had people step on regular d4s so i know I'm banning that in my games

[tall forge]

The legos of dice

[inner silo]

Legos should be a martial weapon in dnd

[halcyon bison]

Metal d4s scare me slightly for this reason

[marble lion]

lego dnd who done it

[inner silo]

Might send you to a hospital

[marble lion]

i wanna DM again

dammit i need to find a player

[tall forge]

I get to dm again soon

This friday, my campaign hiatus ends

[inner silo]

Can i join?

[marble lion]

all my friends that are interested in DnD live 10 hours away

[tall forge]

And my players all go fight my boss who kills them

[marble lion]

ill note that down cracker

[inner silo]

Thanks!

[tall forge]

Go, a lightning bolt that reduces max hp

[marble lion]

im still at that stage where im trying to find a person im quite familiar with

[tall forge]

Go, 3 more of that

[marble lion]

what if they win

[tall forge]

The sorcerer of the party has 18 max hp going into it :D

[inner silo]

I managed to get half of my friends to play dnd with me

[tall forge]

I hope they do

[tame kelp]

You made me wanna get into someone's campaign.

as I just recently ended my campaign as I am a dm.

[inner silo]

How often the games happen isn't a very good ratio though

[tame kelp]

I said goodbye to my players.

[humble cairn]

Oh! Well great! I hope you find a good group!

[tame kelp]

It's time for another 4 years of studying DND

[tall forge]

The lightning bolts that reduce max hp are environmental effects just meant to force players to choose- take max hp damage or get opportunity attacked

[tame kelp]

This will not hurt me.

The past memories I had with dnd 2014 was... pain and tears.

[inner silo]

Bait and switch battle master will love this

[tall forge]

They got a lot of tools to escape

Hopefully they use them

[inner silo]

Gust of wind getting some action?

[tall forge]

Dust devil, gust of wind, dimension door, wand of switcheroo

[inner silo]

Big W for dust devil ngl

I wish that spell gets buffed though

[tall forge]

Last ones a hb item from a podcast

[tall forge]

My druid player is gonna pop off

[inner silo]

It sounds fun

[tall forge]

He loves dust devil

[stoic haven]

Gotta respect the druid player

[tall forge]

Theyve used it to stop 2 TPKs so far

[inner silo]

I'll need to pick up dust devil at some point. I'm planning a sea druid so it'll probably be sand devil

[stoic haven]

Remind me what dust devil does

[tall forge]

Creates a little dust devil

[inner silo]

Creates a guy to obscure an area and trying to push people

[serene jolt]

Speaking of druid, y'all see the new Forge druid from Exploring Eberron?

[tall forge]

Any creature that ends its turn within 5 feet of the dust devil must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, the creature takes 1d8 bludgeoning damage and is pushed 10 feet away. On a successful save, the creature takes half as much damage and isn’t pushed.

[serene jolt]

I've been trying it and it's extremely fun.

[tall forge]

If theres sand, loose dirt, etc they can heavily obscure the area

[stoic haven]

Wait what?

[inner silo]

Sounds sick

[serene jolt]

It's like a Warforged druid. Moon Druid but more focused on tanking and weird elemental debuffs.

[tall forge]

Forced movement can be peak in niche situations

[inner silo]

Is dust devil concentration?

[tall forge]

Yeah

[inner silo]

Dang

[tall forge]

Unfortunately

[inner silo]

Mixing it with spike growth would be fun

Pull them with thorn whip if the devil pushes them out of it, in case

[stoic haven]

Thorn whip is such a funny cantrip

[tall forge]

Forced movement helps players not get absolutely walloped also

[inner silo]

It being melee and 30ft is great

[stoic haven]

I used it a lot with Tolin (shepherd druid who had winged boots) to pull them 10 ft up then fall prone

[inner silo]

That's why telekinetic is an S tier feat if your bs is free

[tall forge]

The bonus action being free is the tough part

[stoic haven]

Just play wizard

[tall forge]

True

[inner silo]

I think about half of classes have it free

Usually

[tall forge]

Martials usually are using it

Casters not as much

[inner silo]

Telekinetic is for casters cuz of it's asi increases

[stoic haven]

Telekinetic or BA?

[tall forge]

BA

[stoic haven]

Oh, yea, mainly rogue, monk, ranger, Paladin, and sometimes Fighter

Lists all but barbarian

[tall forge]

Beserker barbarian moment

[inner silo]

I think some barbarians have it weaponised too

[stoic haven]

Ewwwww

[tall forge]

😔

[inner silo]

2024 fixed berserker kinda

[tall forge]

It was the first class i ever played…

[stoic haven]

Some, but in the same way some casters have it martialized

[tall forge]

A barbarian warlock

[stoic haven]

I love this

[tall forge]

It was pretty bad lmao

[stoic haven]

First character I ever played: Blue Dragonborn Paladin

I despised playing in that game so much I have yet to play Paladin again since in a campaign

[inner silo]

True

[tall forge]

Doesnt help i joined a campaign midway through, played an amnesiac bc i wasnt confident making a character midway theough

And i didnt know how to play, but the dm REALLY wanted to kill us

[stoic haven]

XD, a person just joined our Icewind Dale Campaign as an amnesiac

[stoic haven]

Are you secretly at our table?

[tall forge]

:) mayyyybe

Nah, im a forever dm right now 😔

[inner silo]

Do all drow who were raised in menzoberenzon have evil tendencies?

[stoic haven]

Oooh, if you would like, I sometimes (rarely) run some oneshots that you could come into

[humble cairn]

No, but the society has a big influence. So probably most.

[stoic haven]

Idk what Menzoberenzon is, but I am inclined to say no

With respect to what Ophi said

[humble cairn]

Menzoberranzen is the biggest drow city in the Underdark, run by Lolthite Drow. Very nasty place with extremely cutthroat politics.

[stoic haven]

Ah, ok, so really bad

[hot gate]

(it's "Menzoberranzan" by the way)

[humble cairn]

The great Houses of Menzoberranzen, ruled by the Matron Mothers, all vying for the favor of Lolth the Spider God.

[inner silo]

After hearing (bg3 sploiler) ||minthara|| say "in menzoberenzon…" so many times, it makes it sound almost like a second hell

[humble cairn]

Menzoberranzan with an A at the end instead of an E?

[stoic haven]

Actually, I would say no to this, just because the absolute of "all drow", no matter where you are, there is the ability for evil and good, whether you're in a pris-perfect city or in Menzoberenzon

[woven flint]

Menzo also has a lot of Demons and such roaming about, iirc.. because Lolth is also a Demon Lord :]

[stoic haven]

Do most drow from there have evil tendencies? Probably

[tall forge]

Drow have evil tendencies bc lolth has huge influence

But they are prone to evil, just a generally evil culture

[tender fossil]

Being evil in drow City does help you survive longer

[woven flint]

Yes, Menzo is like AREA 0 for evil Drow

[tall forge]

Made by an evil god

[inner silo]

Being arachnophobic must be tough in menzoberenzan

[tall forge]

I think they just kill you if you are

[humble cairn]

And there is specifically a God, Eilistraee, whose biggest goal is trying to tempt drow to the light side. Her voice whispers to them about friendship and love and stuff. She's kind of the devil for a society that worships cruelty.

[tender fossil]

Large number of her followers are on the surface though

[inner silo]

Btw can underdark spiders swim?

[stoic haven]

Hey Peach, I am not well versed on dnd lore, does Lolth have like an actual hold on the drow's minds? Or is it just cultural adaptation that came from lolth being a controller to now the whole Drow culture being controlling of its subjects?

[tall forge]

More like her priestesses control society

[stoic haven]

Huh? So she is good? Sorry, the last sentence is confusing to me with the wording

[humble cairn]

Lolth doesn't have an automatic hold on drow minds, but being raised as a Lolth worshipper gives Her an easy in.

[inner silo]

O, that's good news

[woven flint]

In Menzo there are houses of Drow noble families, but they kill eachother off on occasion and are replaced.
The longest lasting one and most influential one is house Baenre, who's Matron Mother, I believe, is a CHOSEN of Lolth.

[humble cairn]

Eilistraee is a good aligned God, yes but because the society is rather evil aligned Her role is kind of like that of the devil, being a tempter to break societal rules.

[stoic haven]

Ah, ok, so yea, then I would be more inclined to say that they are evil, but again, all of Drow have the capability to do good, as long as they aren't all being mind controlled or forced by Lolth

[woven flint]

House Baenre's Matron Mother is a CR 20, by the way, I think she has a specific statblock

[inner silo]

You know the place is fed up when talking about kindness and compassion is like propaganda there

[humble cairn]

Kindness is not regarded as a virtue in Lolthite society, it is a weakness and a moral failing.

[inner silo]

Drizzt is from menzoberenzan right?

[stoic haven]

Ah ok, I thought you were saying Eilistraee was the devil for a society that worshipped Cruelty, as in the society worships cruelty and Eilistraee is a devil (usually bad intentions)

[woven flint]

Nope, nevermind, self-correctiom
ALL Drow Matron Mothers are CR 20.

[stoic haven]

So how the Sith view the Jedi

[inner silo]

Ig so

[humble cairn]

No She takes on the role of The Devil, The Enemy, the Shaitan (and a word derived from that). You know what I mean, the Luciferan archenemy of their main God.

[stoic haven]

Sorry, I like to use comparisons to things I am better versed in to help me understand stuff

[inner silo]

Also is there an actual seldarine/lolthsworn distinction in actual dnd lore like in bg3?

[stoic haven]

Ah, so not the Devil as in the actual embodiment of evil per se, but the devil as the main role that is in opposition to main god

[tall forge]

I love learning about forgotten realms lore

And ill never run it

[woven flint]

Fun Fact: Lolth actually loves that her two Children (Eilistraee and Vhaeraun) are actively against her, she enjoys how Chaotic it is

[stoic haven]

pfffft

[inner silo]

What do you run?

[humble cairn]

Uhh, not as in the species, but as in the pantheons. The Seldarine are the goodly elven gods while the Dark Seldarine are the ones that betrayed Corellon and were banished to the Underdark. Eilistraee was an unwitting pawn in Her mother's plan and willingly also went into banishment with the rest of the Dark Seldarine.

[tall forge]

I love homebrewing worlds way too much

[inner silo]

I see, thanks for explaining!

[tall forge]

Ive made about 5 settings so far, id say

[stoic haven]

agreed, hey, would you be willing to take a look at my homebrew setting and give feedback? I've shared it a few times to people but almost never get critical feedback

[faint thicket]

That's just objectively not true

[stoic haven]

I've made 2, one I scrapped after running it

What part of that isn't true?

[tall forge]

Sure, but i may be a bit harsh
Not as in trying to be mean but i try to be objective

[faint thicket]

It's pretty consistently peak

[tall forge]

Nah, it has some weak points

[stoic haven]

Thank you 🙏 I actually prefer objectivism

[woven flint]

I was about to say
Dissonant Whispers is RIGHT there

[inner silo]

Just it's more usually peak then not

[faint thicket]

I realized I was about to be misunderstood when I reread my comment lol

[tall forge]

Technically dissonant whispers doesn’t count as forced movement

Which is why its good

[woven flint]

I believe Dissonant Whispers is the only forced movement that actually Provokes opportunity attacks

[tall forge]

Opportunity attack moment

[faint thicket]

Command as well but yeah

[inner silo]

Suggestion?

[woven flint]

True!

[undone rain]

Lolth is weird

[inner silo]

I suggest you should take a marathon past all of these guys with swords

[stoic haven]

Dissonant whispers acts like the antipathy spell right?

[woven flint]

Suggestion is, honestly, better used outside of combat imo
Unless it's mass suggestion

[inner silo]

It's too good outside of combat tbh

[faint thicket]

But yeah if you are in a place with environmental hazard its peak, in a place where there is no hazards you can make them, and if you can't do that it lets you kite far better

[woven flint]

I mean

Lolth IS also a Former? Maybe still seating? Demon Lord

[inner silo]

With 2024 removing the action needing to be "logical"

[severe rampart]

Surround an enemy on all sides, cast Dissonant Whispers and just watch as the war casters and martials pile up the damage

[faint thicket]

Does suggestions still have the clause where you can't force it to do something dangerous

[tender fossil]

I believe so. The DM did tell me that the suggestion tell your mom she's wrong wasn't going to work

[woven flint]

Oh! You guys wanna hear something messed up about House Baenre? (I find it more messed up than any drow lore ever)

The Matron Mother, Quenthel Baenre, has an Illithid Assistant
Before she was about to die, she had them take her conscious and thoughts and put them in a newly born Drow baby. Effectively erasing that Drows potential life and existence so she could continue living

[severe rampart]

that seems... pretty tame?

Don't they kill a lot of people

Driders eat humanoids too no?

[woven flint]

She ERASED a baby's life from existence, dude 😭
She TOOK a body that wasn't hers and it was just a wee babe!

[tender fossil]

Yes don't get too attached to any NPCs when you're running around a drow City

[severe rampart]

Well yeah, but compared to some other DnD lore that seems pretty tame, don't get me wrong it's still messed up

[woven flint]

That's not tame at all!
It's not the most heinous crime, but saying it's tame seems pretty disturbing imo.

Drow aren't all born Evil.
The ones that live in Menzo are conditioned to be evil.
What if they could've grown up and escaped the cycle? It's improbable, but it could've been the next Driz'zt or Jarlaxle

[minor cargo]

I wouldn't necessarily loop in Jarlaxle with the "good guys" haha, but point remains IMO.

[wispy vector]

Does she keep her memories and become a ultra smart baby or is she still bound by the mental limitations of a toddler?

[woven flint]

I guess it disturbs me in particular, even if it wasn't violence, it still harms a child

[severe rampart]

Yeah, understandable to feel that way, but wasn't there like mass murder in Drow lore? If I recall correctly

[woven flint]

She kept her memories but was probably limited by her new body for a while

[tender fossil]

Could be worse, she could have taken unaligned races like the Fey, forcibly changed them into elves to serve as cannon fodder in a war against the primordials like Correlon did

[woven flint]

I'm sure her Illithid assistant helped her with running Baenre for a while

I get that it's not the worst thing that Drow have done though, it just messes me up in particular lmao
Not like, in an emotional way, but the thought makes me sick

[short reef]

working on an eldrich horror campaign based off of halloween, and been stuck for a long time cause it wasnt scary enough. Today i realised that it doesnt matter if its super scary or not, cause if the players are vibing and having a good time, thats enough. Right? I was so stuck on the horror elements that i didnt realize that they are just that, elements to the story! xD

[woven flint]

And I know of the atrocities Drow committed, but, I look at those and some of them are like the crimes humans have done against themselves, so it doesn't disturb me as much, I guess lol

I've heard of it before, I mean

Drow are occasionally disturbingly realistic

[woven flint]

The Horror Elemental

[tender fossil]

Horror is very difficult to get right. There's a lot of nuance, you have to keep them feeling powerless, and you have to take away their resources.

[short reef]

yeah! and at the same time you need to make sure the players are still having a good time, and also not overstep any boundaries (thats why you always ask your players if they have any tw)

[tender fossil]

It does require the right mindset to play. It is all about pushing boundaries, getting into people's heads, if somebody is uncomfortable with the horror genre they would probably be having more fun with another game

[woven flint]

The biggest part of Eldritch horror is the unknowable

[tender fossil]

Generally it's best run as a mystery as you're trying to figure out what can stop or how to escape from whatever the big bad is

[woven flint]

The more you know, the potential it has to be LESS terrifying

Bloodborne is a good example of Eldritch Horror done right, if you ask me... things are going on right underneath your nose, but you typically don't even know it starting off. At first, it seems like an outbreak of a plague or virus, etc.. and then, the more insightful you grow.. the more you start to see

[tender fossil]

It also helps if you can isolate your party so they can't go get help. That's a classic staple of horror movies

[still plover]

Horrors from Earthdawn are always fun for ideas.

[woven flint]

Or, put them in a place they don't belong
Where the people are outwardly hostile to then.
Not trying to kill them necessarily, but telling them that they don't belong, making vague and cryptic threats and speaking of things that no mortal man would want to hear, maybe Whispers of beings in the sky... a creature with far too many eyes, far too HUMAN eyes, lurking in the caves/forest, etc

These are just average people, they don't know what the hell they've seen, but they know it's not natural, even in a world where monsters are awry

[tender fossil]

That's one of the reasons why the original Ravenloft was so good. They made it human centric, so if you showed up as an elf or a dwarf everybody was already slightly paranoid and you are not helping

[woven flint]

I like the idea of being in a town where even the Priests, Gaurd and maybe local wizard or two are TOO afraid to help

It could be scarier when individuals of Arcane prowess are even saying "Yeah, no, I don't know what's going on and I don't WANT to know!"

[tough lynx]

Hey what are your guys thoughts on undying warlock?

[knotty pasture]

Isn't it on the weaker end

[tough lynx]

Yeah

[limber trail]

I haven't looked too much at it. My understanding is people generally regard it as underpowered. The recommendation I usually see is that folks play the more recent Undying warlock

[stoic haven]

No, just no /j

[tough lynx]

Okay I won’t then

Sorry for bringing it up

[stoic haven]

Undead is just better. Undying tried to make Warlock a little tanker and have healing esque stuff, but its just that, a little

I'm joking

[tough lynx]

I like undead

I don’t like undying

[crystal latch]

Undying has its strengths, but all of them are also present on the vastly superior Undead warlock

[tough lynx]

The tankyness isn’t useful

[limber trail]

Taking a look at undying warlock, it seems like it's a lot of dead features, abilities that only work once a day, and sidegrades. The first and tenth level abilities especially just seem like they do pretty much nothing (save the cases where you're fighting undeads, which will vary from campaign to campaign). The 6th and 14th level features offer some healing, but... not a lot. You're probably looking at maybe 3d8+25 HP per day, which isn't nothing, but isn't a lot. None of the spells are anything to write home about either.

Undead keeps most of the flavour and seems much more fun to play

[tough lynx]

It is

It’s also top2 lock subs

[limber trail]

Wait I fully forgot I've literally played undead before lmao

It was ages ago and not for long but it seems pretty cool at higher levels

[knotty pasture]

Warlock getting a super mode is hella cool

They'd probably get supermodels too if they tried with their 17 cha

[tough lynx]

Dao and undead are very good

Limited wish is silly

[knotty pasture]

Marid does kind of make me feel like its Fathomless mk 2

Granted the mechanics aren't the exact same but the theme is basically touching on it

[tough lynx]

Fathomless is 3rd best

[crystal latch]

Undead/Genie > Genie/Undead > Fathomless > Fiend > Archfey > GOO > Celestial > Hexblade for mainclass warlocks yeah

I think I forgot one

[tough lynx]

How would it look if you ranked them with genie split into 4 subs

[tough lynx]

Undying but undead is basically a rewrite

[crystal latch]

Genie is split into Dao > Marid > Efreeti > Djinni iirc

[tough lynx]

What about within the whole list

[crystal latch]

All in the genie spot

[knotty pasture]

My list is a bit different hold on

[tough lynx]

Ahhh

[tough lynx]

Fairs

[crystal latch]

No matter which genie, genie is just good

[tough lynx]

Genie is based

[knotty pasture]

Genie = Undead > Fathomless > Fiend > Celestial > Archfey > Hexblade > GOO > Undying for monoclass

[crystal latch]

I rate GOO over Hexblade because it gets a few good spells after level 1 while Hexblade's spell list highlights begin and end with Shield

[remote wadi]

So, apparently

Someone tried pulling the "Just use Fighter with a bow" argument on me
Should I be eager or disappointed?

[still plover]

We're talking DPR here, right?

[thorn wedge]

GOO is such a funny abbreviation, makes it sound like that warlocks patron is a giant slime

[turbid tinsel]

Came across an old and defunct add for a 5e game set in an Arcanepunk/Weird West setting and it's got me keenly craving a wild west 2014 game so I can either play a Lawful Good Warlock, or Paladin. A Marshal/Sherriff/"Texas Ranger" bringing Order, and Justice to the lawless west. Reskin Eldritch Blast to be a six shooter, a rifle for Eldritch Spear, Repelling Blast and Grasp of Hadar is him doing trick shots..

[tough lynx]

Ranger is very good why would they do that

[crystal latch]

No, overall power

[knotty pasture]

No its a community tier list I composed based on asking around over the course of 3 weeks, assuming 2014 and monoclass

[still plover]

-# It does... sigh

[turbid tinsel]

What is a GOO warlock?

[knotty pasture]

Great Old One

[tough lynx]

Nah

[turbid tinsel]

thanks

[knotty pasture]

Goo just sounds funny

[turbid tinsel]

I'm not fully upto all the abbreviations.

[steel moth]

no one is dw

[tall forge]

Well, they kind of are

[remote wadi]

YouTube bandwagon. "Ranger bad", "I broke the DM" sort of junk

[tall forge]

Cthulu is goo-like

[tough lynx]

Main ones to know is ebarb (eldrich blast with agonising blad and repellling blast) and DSS (divine soul sorcerer)

[tall forge]

Goo adjacent, if you will

[turbid tinsel]

Heavily leaning towards Warlock for the Wild West character I'll never get to play. Would be neat to play a Paladin too. Doesn't worship any god, he's just empowered by his strong civic duty. Whhen he gets his mount it's a steampunk/magepunk motorcycle, an Iron Stallion..

[pliant sapphire]

is not a giant monstrous squid?

[tough lynx]

Ranger is the best weapon user in 2014 idk about 2024

[remote wadi]

Have you looked into Gunslinger?

[tall forge]

Hes also goo enough that a boat squishes through him

[still plover]

Waiting for the upgrade to a Steel Horse, huh?

[thorn wedge]

How do you figure

[turbid tinsel]

Gunslinger exists in 2014 5e?

[knotty pasture]

Its UA iirc

[crystal latch]

Pretty sure that was just a star spawn

[remote wadi]

Oh. I wish....

[tough lynx]

Highest damage and good spells

[turbid tinsel]

Fingerguns.

[knotty pasture]

But isn't 2014 Gunslinger basically a discount Battle Master

[tall forge]

Its also cthulu, accodding to lovecraft

[knotty pasture]

So you can give Battle Master a try instead

[vale sage]

Uptown girll

[turbid tinsel]

I'd want it to be a 2014 game. I've not been impressed by much of the changes in 2024? 2025?

[tough lynx]

If you want to talk more about Ranger we can move to #optimization

[vital crest]

It's on DnD Beyond so many mistake it for official content, but it is Critical Role homebrew.

[tough lynx]

I dislike 2024

[turbid tinsel]

Got ya.

But yeah, I'd just reskin a warlock's eldritch blast. I'm a White Hat Cowboy, I never run out of ammo.

[remote wadi]

24, idk. 14, even without the usual shenanigans of Gloomstalker and CBE, Ranger is easily better than just Fighter with bow

[turbid vessel]

Yeah, Matt Mercer made it as a conversion for Talisiens character since their original system (Pathfinder 2e) had a gunslinger but DND 5e didn't

[remote wadi]

That would probably be better for asking for advice on an optimal Ranger

This is more what makes Ranger good and why the "Fighter with bow/Fighter and Druid multiclass is stupid"

[tough lynx]

Pwt solos

[vital crest]

This is perfectly valid. But I will say that if you can get a magical gun (even something like a Common magical pistol), you can turn it into a pact weapon. In 5e (2014), that'd let you benefit from Sharpshooter and Eldritch Smite from range.

[remote wadi]

That's probably also why the Druid multiclass argument is also stupid: you're already casting most of the important Druid spells anyways

[tough lynx]

Yeah

Except 5 ranger 15 Druid is just a Druid with extra attack

And minus shape change

[severe rampart]

What class should I try next, since I want to at least play every class once
So far my ranking is Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock, Monk, Wizard, Rogue, Ranger, Artificer from best to worst

[knotty pasture]

Spores Druid rejoice

[remote wadi]

Quick tip: if you are at level 20 and you're not constantly scheming of ways to break the campaign with Wish, you're probably doing it wrong

[knotty pasture]

Paladin perhaps, I noticed you played all the mage and expert classes and Monk

But no priest classes yet

[tough lynx]

*True Polymorph and yeah

[severe rampart]

I have wanted to play a Paladin, even have a character sheet for it, but the oneshot is on hiatus right now, because exams

Drow Paladin 🙏

[knotty pasture]

Shame, something to look into in that case

[turbid tinsel]

I can totally see that. I think i'd actually want to go Pact of the Chain and just work something out with the DM that my 'Familiar' is a mount similar to what a paladin gets. maybe perminantly lose a spell slot and feat to counter balance it.

[tough lynx]

How is monk above wizard? Is is most fun for you or strongest?

[remote wadi]

That's why I usually stick to arguments at level 14, maybe 15 or so at max

[severe rampart]

Fun for me, and how it works within the group

[tough lynx]

Ahhh

Play with what you enjoy

[thorn wedge]

Am I missing something? I’ve rarely played with ranger but comparing it to fighter seems like fighter comes out on top most of the time.

[severe rampart]

I dislike Artificer because of that, I didn't enjoy it, nor did I feel like I fit in with the group

[still plover]

Why break a game you're having fun with?

I will say that if you're level 20 and not using your formidable power to accomplish your goals, you're maybe missing something.

[tough lynx]

Conjure animals and pass without a trace

[tall forge]

Slowly but surely making a tower defense minigame for my campaign….

[severe rampart]

Perhaps I also judged Ranger too harshly, perhaps it was just because of my DM at the time

[tall forge]

Prebuff ranger was pretty dm dependent

[remote wadi]

The basic TLDR of why Fighter with a bow argument sucks (especially with Druid Subclass) is that Ranger is doing most of the things each of them want and then some

[crystal latch]

Level 1 ranger spells: Goodberry, Entangle, Fog Cloud, Absorb Elements
Level 2 ranger spells: Pass without Trace, Spike Growth
Level 3 ranger spells: Plant Growth, Conjure Animals
Level 4 ranger spells: Conjure Woodland Beings
Level 5 ranger spells: Upcast Conjure Animals

[severe rampart]

Might have to replay Ranger, Rogue, and Artificer once I'm done with the rest of the base classes

[knotty pasture]

2014 Gloom Stalker was an art cuz its level 3 feature is basically action surge with a once per combat cooldown, and stacks independently with action surge itself

We haven't got to the spells yet

[severe rampart]

I know for a fact I'll play Aasimar Cleric in my next oneshot

[turbid tinsel]

DM's that have a particular trauma from earlier players that played a particular class powerfully can make things go bad when they make judgements to lock down the things that make the class work.

[tough lynx]

Also gloom 5 is basically fighter 11 Druid 3

[crystal latch]

PHB beast master ranger was better than battle master fighter because spells carried that hard

[shrewd grotto]

quick, someone say a 5e race that isnt warforged

[knotty pasture]

Aasimar Cleric slaps, I have a rough outline of an Aasimar Cleric concept

[crystal latch]

Dhampir

[knotty pasture]

Giff

[tall forge]

Warforged

[turbid tinsel]

Centaur!

[knotty pasture]

Gun wielding hippos are funny

[tall forge]

Auto gnome

[turbid tinsel]

ohh! I could play a Centaur Warlock Texas Ranger. He /is/ his own mount..

[stoic haven]

Aarakocra

[remote wadi]

To give a good idea for that: think about what you accomplish with a Bow Fighter and how that could be better than what a Ranger already does. For every legitimate answer you make, there's 2 that favor the opposite stance

[knotty pasture]

I mean that's people right

Can't have everyone agreeing

[severe rampart]

I disliked it because

A. My DM had a month of preparation, came up to session 1 with no maps or vtt, no outlined goal for the party, no hooks for the adventure, even though he advertised it as a "Solar punk world with exploration and combat"
B. My party members were newer players, who instantly attacked each other in the tavern we met up at
C. Hunter's Mark is a concentration

[turbid tinsel]

I once played a Tortle that at 1st level managed to drop kick a Troll over the edge of The Yawning Portal in Waterdeep.

[knotty pasture]

Teenage mutant ninja turtles?

[turbid tinsel]

ooph..rough game.

[tough lynx]

Hunters mark is bad so you ignore it

[crystal latch]

There's an easy fix to Hunter's Mark being concentration
Not casting it

[turbid tinsel]

Actually I think he was a Warlock. I played a lot of Warlocks back when I played 5e..

[stoic haven]

Better concentration: Entangle or Ensnaring Strike

[turbid tinsel]

He just had no cares to give, this thing was right at the edge having climbed out to attack people for the start of the adventure and my guy was right there and went. "welp...this is how I die. Witness me."

[tough lynx]

Entangle but I’d rather goodberry

[turbid tinsel]

then I nat 20'd

[severe rampart]

Yeah, for level one though i didn't have a lot of options, since the spells I picked weren't useful for the encounters he improvised

[tough lynx]

You always take goodberry

At level 3 that’s 30 hp out of combat

[severe rampart]

I did. I didn't take a single HP of damage, we were level 1

[tough lynx]

Ohhh 2024

Did none of your allies take damage?

If so really efficient

[severe rampart]

My party members attacked something that deflected back double damage, causing me to have to use my action several times to use my healer's kit on them

[tough lynx]

Well done

[severe rampart]

No, they weren't efficient, at all, they just instantly got to 0 hp before getting to use goodberry.

It was funny to think about

[turbid tinsel]

I hate games where the entire party are 'stabbing is my roleplay'

[tough lynx]

I hate tables that melee

[severe rampart]

Oh my, my ally just got hit back with double the damage he dealt... what should I do?

Oh I got it! Attack the thing!

As soon as I got them back up, they would spend a turn, and then die in the next

[still plover]

That's painful to read.

[severe rampart]

it was frustrating, I felt like my only purpose was just to be there and use my healer's kit

I typically like ranger classes in other games, not in DnD

Maybe giving Gloomstalker a chance will help me cleanse this bad experience

[tough lynx]

Gloom is so funny

[severe rampart]

How so?

[tough lynx]

It has so many abilities

I take it you’re playing heteroclassed?

[severe rampart]

Never heard of that term 😭

[turbid vessel]

heteroclassed
That's crazy

[tough lynx]

Monoclassed

[severe rampart]

When trying out the base classes for oneshots yes, I only multiclass in campaigns or higher leveled oneshots

[turbid tinsel]

Personally, at that point if they kept doing that, I'd slowly be backing my character out of the fight. Let their in character actions have in character concequences. Then when half or more of the party have to make new characters maybe they'll learn that sometimes diplomacy is the best first option.

[turbid vessel]

They call it multiclassed for a reason

[tough lynx]

Okay!

I like calling it heteroclasses

It’s funny

[severe rampart]

I'm pretty sure I would've died if they didn't keep on sponging the damage

[tough lynx]

I can assist you with the gloom build

It has lots of burst damage

[remote wadi]

I'll be 100 with you: that is the characters having Wis dump stats irl, not Ranger being bad. You could play Life Cleric and still run into that same problem

[remote wadi]

Oi, that's my line >:c

[severe rampart]

I'm aware that the experience sullied my view of Ranger

it isn't the worst class, by far, it is unique in its own right

[tough lynx]

It has a niche over clerics

[severe rampart]

Actually, the artificer might've also been a bit sullied by my experience in that particular campaign as well... 🤔

[remote wadi]

Just have a great DM and a party not overcrowded and you'll be eating good

[tough lynx]

Artillerist is a good sub

[remote wadi]

Out of curiosity, what's the by far one in your book?

[tough lynx]

Barbarian

Followed closely by rogue

[remote wadi]

(And I feel you on the sullied experiences: people ruined Druid for me by stalling and being useless with casting and Wild Shape)

[severe rampart]

I had a shared backstory with this barbarian, she was nice, and was trying her best, but whenever she roleplayed she would scream into her microphone at the loudest volume and say stuff like "I eat book", I get that Barbarians are stereotypically not very smart, but still

[tall forge]

Mmm, id argue rogue has its use

[tough lynx]

Though rogue has AT so it’s not awful

[tall forge]

Id say barb followed by monk

[tough lynx]

Monk has shadow monk

Which can range

[severe rampart]

Artificer

[crystal latch]

Monk is weird in that it's the best and worst martial at the same time depending on build

[tall forge]

Just melee?

[severe rampart]

Other than that, I just felt like I didn't belong in the group, and that I wasn't having fun with Artificer's features

[remote wadi]

Barb is not so lucky. I always saw the class as being very antithetical

[tough lynx]

Shadow monk is a budget ranger

[turbid vessel]

We talking 2014 or 2024 barbarian? Cause 2024 barbarian rules

[tough lynx]

Barb was almost good with wildsoul

[crystal latch]

Shadow monk with a musket is the best martial and nearly close to being almost as good as ranger
Melee monk is the worst martial

[tough lynx]

Look at my name…

[tall forge]

Melee monk is fun enough at least, and is probably the best level 1 martial

Getting 2 attacks level 1 is pretty huge

[pliant sapphire]

Barb was buffed in 2024 but still meh

[halcyon bison]

I like unarmed fighting I think its cool

[tough lynx]

Every martial got that at level 1

[halcyon bison]

those my thoughts on this situation

[remote wadi]

Also, Monk has great healing and damage options as Mercy Monk. Being able to heal as much as Mercy does is already pretty good, but it's even better when you realize he also restores said healing options on short rests too

[tall forge]

Dual weapon fighting for most classes isnt great

[thorn wedge]

2014 artificer is pretty bad.

[knotty pasture]

We Gunking

[crystal latch]

My overall class ranking (2014) is
S: Wizard, Warlock, Druid
A: Sorc, Cleric, Bard
B: Ranger, UA mystic
C: Paladin, Arti
D: Ranged monk
E: Fighter
F: Rogue, barbarian, melee monk

[knotty pasture]

Gunk is an artstyle and I will Myrkul on this hill

[halcyon bison]

I think my very first dnd character was a monk

[tall forge]

Fighter being that low is wild to me

[severe rampart]

I have been thinking of Human Gloomstalker, I know that Bugbear is the best option but I just dislike Bugbears

[lyric viper]

Rogue Barbarian was pretty fun for that oneshot I played him in.

[tough lynx]

There should be gaps between all the caster levels

So it could be lower

[tall forge]

😔

[halcyon bison]

Im shocked I don't see more rogue/barbarian multicalasses
It's a good combo!!!

[knotty pasture]

Lots of stuff can work with Gloom Stalker, I think Wood Elf slaps with Gloom Stalker for one

[crystal latch]

True but to represent that accurately I would need the entire alphabet and that would be less readable

[tough lynx]

Crossbow expert and Pam

[tall forge]

Meh, i find melee/martials to be fun enough

[severe rampart]

I... have been imagining gloomstalkers' appearance wrong

[turbid vessel]

I've been dying to play a 2024 rogue barbarian, using STR for stealth and getting advantage on it while raging? And using reckless attack to get advantage (sneak attack) on my weapons? and weapon masteries? It's such a fun hunter/stalker fantasy

[crystal latch]

I generally prefer a difficulty level where the cutoff point is "everything below ranger just won't survive"

[knotty pasture]

I just imagine a Gloom Stalker looking like a standard assassin-esque character from Menzoberranzan

[severe rampart]

I thought they were covered in moss and grass to hide in terrain, that's why it's a "Gloom" "Stalker", turns out they just wear dark clothes

[knotty pasture]

Oh yeah the Gloom Stalker thing originated from the Underdark where everything is gloomy

Or I guess in 2024 terms, its now Shadowfell based (arguably cooler)

[lyric viper]

Def pretty gloomy down there. Don't like folk brightening it up either.

[severe rampart]

I mean, I did think Aasimar looked like Skeksis from the Dark Crystal as well, I might be imagining other player species wrong

[cursive ledge]

if players have enough money to afford any item of X rarity, do you just let em?

[woven flint]

Ah, yes, The Shadowfell
The place where most are Dead Inside And Outside!

[turbid vessel]

Amazing how different people's preferred experience of DnD is. I could not imagine having fun in a game where only like 10 percent of builds can survive

[halcyon bison]

I quite enjoyed paladin the one time I played it
unfortunately I was trying to be lawful good in a chaotic "definitely not evil" neutral party so I swapped to a bard

[severe rampart]

If they can find a place that sells them, yeah

[cursive ledge]

what if there’s only one shop in the entire module

[crystal latch]

It's still enough to have like... a couple thousand unique builds when accounting for all the different components

[halcyon bison]

Yeah but what if you just want to play a guy who punches things

[tough lynx]

And that’s okay

[turbid vessel]

But it cuts off a majority of builds, particularly ones that aren't centered around combat or DPS. social builds, intruige builds, I like games that keep those avenues open

[thorn wedge]

I like games that put pressure on the players to be strong but only at big points in the story. It allows lucky weak character to squeak through if they’re chosen by the gods, while still feeling dangerous.

[woven flint]

Monk is there
Unarmed Fighting style for
Ranger, Fighter and Paladin are there

[thorn wedge]

I don’t like it when you’re fighting for your life every single day

[knotty pasture]

Its kind of like Honor Mode in bg3, you shouldn't really mess around there

[still plover]

Ideally the pitch and subsequent Session Zero will help guide players to builds that will be practical in the adventures to come.

[knotty pasture]

And that's fine +1

[crystal latch]

The thing is, every build that excels at this optimization level is a caster so you have all the tools for out of combat stuff in addition to having all the tools for combat

[knotty pasture]

Doesn't really make Honor Mode good or bad per se, but some people do like pushing the system to its limits in harder modes

[tall forge]

I can’t imagine a game without martials, so this is pretty crazy

[crystal latch]

Honor Mode in bg3 is easy ngl

[knotty pasture]

Well yes the hardest part is like level 1-5 anyways lol

[halcyon bison]

I was talking in regards to Haen's list and difficulty level

[crystal latch]

Honor mode with a self-imposed restriction of no more than one non-forced long rest per act, that's a bit more interesting

[tall forge]

Honor mode bg3 solo run is what i do, and man. I got beat hard

Beat it recently tho

[tough lynx]

I don’t enjoy martials they aren’t entertaining to play other than Marc (moon knight)

But that’s cause Marc does like 300 dpr

It’s not good in high op though

Melee

[turbid vessel]

To be perfectly honest, unless you're playing in a game as Haen described (IE, difficulty maxed up the wazoo), you don't really gotta worry about power levels or tier lists at all. DnD (especially 2024 DND) is good at making sure you build a competent character as long as you follow the guidelines

[tall forge]

Bleh, not really a fan of heavy optimization in dnd

Mild optimization is my middle ground

[tough lynx]

That’s okay but I like it

[halcyon bison]

Ive said this before but my favorite character was a battle master (+some ranger) dhampir with a heavy martial focus

[thorn wedge]

Most DMs will try to tailor difficulty to the party, rather than just designing arbitrary power levels the party must hit anyway

[tall forge]

All good! Im just curious tho, have you tried a crunchy ttrpg?

[burnt valley]

isnt it also online at like Lvl 20

[lyric viper]

My group tends to optimise but not to excessive extents, and honestly martials seem to do just fine. Certainly have fun tearing through enemies. And walls. And my plots.

[crystal latch]

Moon Knight is good in high op

[flint ledge]

Actually I wonder, how would someone run an optimization heavy campaign

[burnt valley]

Nothing infuriates me more than caster mains who hyperfixate on damage cough cough Sorcerer/Warlock main friend cough cough

[tough lynx]

I’m wanting to get into swse

[crystal latch]

In what sense? I can offer some advice, having played in and DMed many

[tough lynx]

I like sorlock not for damage though

[turbid vessel]

I recommend Lancer for anyone looking to satisfy a high OP itch

[knotty pasture]

May I introduce you to 2Wiz2Lock (2 Wizards, 2 Warlocks)

[woven flint]

Optimize Schmoptimize
I'm gonna throw our Wizard like a Magic Missile!

[tall forge]

Im trying out pathfinder 2e for the first time (dm) and man, you wanna optimize?

[knotty pasture]

Actually wait I'll let the author himself describe it

[tall forge]

Play 1e, way more broken and rules jeavy

[lyric viper]

Do wizards count as magical weapons?

[thorn wedge]

The real sin of martials is that they are boring and tend to only do one specific thing well.

[cursive ledge]

if a module only has 1 shop but the players have enough gold to afford any rare or uncommon magic item, what do you do then?

[tall forge]

But 2e is cool too

[burnt valley]

I'm talking about my adventurer's league table, most of my grievances are there

[flint ledge]

I mean obviously most stuff normally but I mean combat wise

[thorn wedge]

Power wise they are mostly fine unless you’re hard hard optimizing.

[halcyon bison]

I would say so, especially if they have Magic Robes

[tough lynx]

I’m in a challenge right now to see how many times we can complete a 30 encounter dungeon that gets harder every run through

[thorn wedge]

Except monk.

[woven flint]

Imaging a Goliath Barbarian palming a Gnome Wizard in his entirety
That shit sounds hilarious

[turbid vessel]

This is how I know 2e is a better system, look at anyone that praises 1e and their first argument is 'its easier to break'

[burnt valley]

Homebrew stuff don't count

[lyric viper]

Who said I was homebrewing?

[halcyon bison]

Most of my D&D experience is in the crunch but I'm trying to get out of it cuz I've gotten tired of it

[tall forge]

Its more so its a “research based power system”

[tough lynx]

Big big fish

[flint ledge]

Honestly I think picking a warlock gives the DM a LOT of tools and value

[tall forge]

You do heavy enough research, you break it. You dont do any, youre broke(bad)

[viral dust]

what are y'all thoughts on the Pugilist class? Do you guys think it's broken?

[cursive ledge]

like phantom hourglass?

[turbid vessel]

I used to be really into it. Then I kinda realized I was missing the forest for the trees

[tough lynx]

It’s bad if anything

[woven flint]

It's fun!

[tough lynx]

I can forward it to the optimisation channel if you’d like?

[lyric viper]

It's got Moxie

[thorn wedge]

It’s middle of the road power wise for martials.

[burnt valley]

Not strong enough

[woven flint]

It's got Piss & Vinegar

[tall forge]

The dnd crunch is pretty small

[cursive ledge]

oh nah it’s good, was mostly just wondering if the dungeon changes every time

[woven flint]

Dog & Hound!

[viral dust]

i feel like it's bloated with too much

[crystal latch]

OK so first you need to apply multipliers to the encounter XP budget because regular encounters won't suffice.
Second, you need large numbers of encounters. Difficulty through attrition and "this thing was meant to kill you four times over and it's the easiest encounter in this 20-encounter dungeon"

[viral dust]

action economy's the hardest thing to manage with this

[tough lynx]

It’s the same one but we add an extra enemy to each fight

[viral dust]

flavour wise, it's amazing

[cursive ledge]

lmao nice

[halcyon bison]

The reason I got there in the first place is because I play at a game store where players rotate around, and as a consequence most sessions were one shots where its just 1 guaranteed combat per session
And then at higher levels combat takes so long that literally nothing else happens during it

[burnt valley]

p2fe design philosophy is based around how much they can restrict player choices

[viral dust]

how so

[woven flint]

I enjoy playing Monk
So...
I enjoy playing Pugilist
I don't care how good or bad it is, I just love punching things.

[stray sage]

what spell is better for a support caster, levitate or enlarge/reduce

[knotty pasture]

On the one hand, no Warlock in pf2e is sad, but on the other hand, Witch seems interesting

[viral dust]

i thought it averaged the most damage out of the martials

[crystal latch]

If you would throw four vampire spawn at a less optimized party at a given level, for a more optimized party you'd do, idk, six vampire spawn, a nosferatu and 20 skeletons

[tall forge]

Ive had the opposite experience reading it, how so?

[turbid vessel]

I'm currently in a group where sometimes we get so caught up in the character-to-character roleplaying that we forget to roll dice. And I love it. Never had more fun playing DnD than with finding a roleplay-heavy party

[viral dust]

i wanted a class like Pugilist so I find it very intriguing

[halcyon bison]

Is pugilist UA or 3rd party? I keep hearing about but I don't know where its from

[coarse ravine]

Can get pretty sneaky with enlarge reduce

[turbid vessel]

3rd party

[viral dust]

3rd party

[lyric viper]

Also folk remember PF2e is for #non-dnd-topics

[viral dust]

depends on who you're supporting

but levitate feels all-around more flexible

[tall forge]

I mean, no

Its the strongest argument possible

[viral dust]

its got too much going on regarding the class and subclasses imo

[tall forge]

“I enjoy punching things and this class lets me punch things”

[halcyon bison]

punching things is good -w-
I don't know if I need another class all about it, I would be happy with an unarmed rogue subclass tbh

[viral dust]

haymaker should be limited to PB times per Long Rest ngl

[crystal latch]

My favorite unarmed melee is a summoned barlgura

[halcyon bison]

Which by the way rogue should totally be able to get sneak attack with unarmed strikes and I'm mad it can't

Think of all the poor dhampir rogues

[tall forge]

Persoanlly im just happy i can punch with smite now

[turbid vessel]

Yeah, STR based rogue isn't an archetype DND does well. Though I've always wanted to make a homebrew subclass for it, akin to Ruffian from Pf2e

[tall forge]

Its so cool….

[viral dust]

Street Saint is amazing

[woven flint]

If I can still play my favorite fantasy

Thrashing people with my bare hands

Regardless pf GOOD or BAD
I'm gonna have fun, I get to absolutely knock people the hell out!

[crystal latch]

Sneak attack dhampir bite would give it a meaningful niche because of the check bonus

[halcyon bison]

This is indeed a good change

[turbid vessel]

That + ranged smites now, paladin has a lot more versatility in builds in 2024

[viral dust]

but Piss & Vinegar might take the cake

[viral dust]

wait ranged smites how?

[halcyon bison]

You can do this pretty well in 2014 with battle master fighter and hunter ranger

[tall forge]

I dont really care for Ranged smite, but i dislike ranged combat

[woven flint]

I've had fun with Dog & Hound

I'm a Warforged Fella with a Doggo rn

[halcyon bison]

I got a 40 on an athletics test with it once :3

[turbid vessel]

Thrown weapons still count as melee weapons

[viral dust]

oh my God the Thor build is real

[tall forge]

Ok im being sold on ranged smite

[viral dust]

imagine u just throw an axe with Thunderous Smite

absolute cinema

[turbid vessel]

Walk with me: a boomerang paladin

[woven flint]

You see, my main enjoyment of Pugilist is that it's a non-mystical feeling Monk.

As much as I like the Fantasy of Monk, I like how down to Earth and Gritty pugilist feels

[halcyon bison]

One of these days I'm going to make an unarmed/improvised weapons paladin
Oath of Redemption, they swore never to use weapons forged for war.... but the oath never said anything about a brick

[viral dust]

that too, it's the flavour I like the most

[viral dust]

Street Saint Pugilist is basically that

[tall forge]

Monk is very eastern myth coded, which is… meh

I want to be big buff guy punching things

[viral dust]

ngl i feel like 2024 should've added a detective-like subclass

[humble cairn]

Less so now, and less so if you give even a bit of effort.

[knotty pasture]

Btw is there a point to running Tridents cuz it seems like its a slightly heavier spear (doesn't really mean much) but 5x the price?

[lyric viper]

Bring back urban ranger? >.>

[humble cairn]

That's just flavor, and flavor is free.

[viral dust]

or just a genuinely drunk guy throwing hands for the love of the game

[tall forge]

The problem i have is it isnt strength based

[halcyon bison]

This is fair

[tall forge]

And at some point, youre flavoring a LOT

[turbid vessel]

2024 trident has an upgraded damage die and a different weapon mastery

[viral dust]

what, Paladin or Pugilist?

[tall forge]

monk

[halcyon bison]

Fighter with unarmed fighting style isnt a bad choice

[viral dust]

ohhh yea they're supposed to be harder to hit and faster

[humble cairn]

They improved them in 2024. They have a better damage dice and also Topple, meaning they are the only weapon with a ranged way to knock things prone.

[viral dust]

hence the Dex base

[knotty pasture]

Damn, well hope the table doesn't mind me sinking in 4 extra gp I guess

[woven flint]

I'm aware

But I also like using Strength over Dexterity whenever It's feasible

[halcyon bison]

This would be very funny when a campaign starts getting really high level

[tall forge]

Its just a bonus for our flavor to be supported mechanically

[humble cairn]

My Glory Paladin was a Thrown Weapon Paladin and the ranged Topple was nice.

[woven flint]

Also, I feel the flavor of the class should be highly considered when you're playing a character.

That's just my opinion

[knotty pasture]

No I mean in 2014, not touching 2024 with a 6 foot pole for the time being

[viral dust]

my character lore for Pugilist is literally "gimme a drink so I can bash it over someone's noggin!"

[tall forge]

Like, sure i flavor my monk to be “buff tony, crusher of men.”

[humble cairn]

The ability scores are abstract and basically meta anyway, but if you like it you like it.

[tall forge]

Then the dm says roll athletics

[viral dust]

even worse considering Pugilist would almost one-shot everybody in the fight

[humble cairn]

Then trident basically sucks and there's no reason to use it.

[viral dust]

probably for flavour tbh

[humble cairn]

You can flavor any other weapon as a trident.

[woven flint]

By the time they get Haymaker people usually have more than 15 HP lol

[knotty pasture]

I wanted to recreate the feel of a bg3 build one of those days, which does literally use a (magical) trident

[cobalt owl]

Ah yes, Nyrula

[tall forge]

My monks go to throwing weapon

[viral dust]

haymaker stacks with crits, fisticuffs scale as you level up, extra attacks, you can spam the Moxie point every time, you have One-Two Punch

[knotty pasture]

Yeah going medium armor Barb with a funny trident oddly hits the spot for my Barb fantasy

[viral dust]

not to mention the force damage conversion

ngl the one thing I want out of D&D is a Dex-based Paladin type class

kinda like Avenger from 4e

[woven flint]

Yes.
But you're not criting on every hit.

And its still a maximum of 25 damage at level 5 as a Haymaker crit

[humble cairn]

Genie Paladin rewards going Dex.

[viral dust]

fair point, i miscalculated 52 HP at level 5

[humble cairn]

And dual wielding is in a very good place in 2024, so dual wielding finesse weapons as a Paladin can be pretty good.

[viral dust]

yea but that's 3 stats I got to favour, which becomes too much work for this reward

Str and Cha to even play a Paladin, and Dex for Genie

[humble cairn]

Seems well worth it for the Genie Paladin fans.

[still plover]

A Dex build would go finesse, no?

[humble cairn]

Str and Cha can stay at 13. You don't even need the Cha for their powerful Dao Crush since it doesn't get a save.

[viral dust]

yeah, a long-haired Tiefling, light armour wearing demon smiting people with a rapier is my fever dream atp

[still plover]

I like it!

[humble cairn]

For that matter Bladepact warlocks are also in a good place right now, and you can even Smite with them if you cound Eldritch Smite.

[halcyon bison]

I like the idea of being both strong and agile but in D&D you usually only need one
Barbarian is kinda an exception but barbarian doesn't seem like a super interesting class to play to me

[viral dust]

oh yeahhh i did forget about Hexblades

[humble cairn]

In 2024 you don't even need to go Hexblade. You can be any type of Warlock and do Bladepact well.

[viral dust]

i just go Wildheart, so i can roleplay as a cat when not fighting and just mong out in combat

[humble cairn]

And they get three attacks!

[viral dust]

Bladepact?

[humble cairn]

Yep!

[hidden spindle]

Shadow-Touched for the Wrathful Smite access

[halcyon bison]

well you need two other invocations for that but that's a pretty fair price to pay

[knotty pasture]

Curious about something, mildly off topic if anything

[humble cairn]

If you're a Blade Pact warlock you're basically going to take those.

[viral dust]

nah i meant what is Bladepact?

[halcyon bison]

fair and true

[halcyon bison]

Pact of the blade, its an invocation now

[knotty pasture]

So there's people with no ping mentions on their server nickname, what's the equivalent of a no 2024 rules (or more like, a way to express disinterest in it) nickname without sounding overly hostile

[viral dust]

ohh understandable

[humble cairn]

It's an invocation you can take as a Warlock that lets you summon a weapon out of magic and attack with your Charisma.

[viral dust]

yeah I didn't know Pact of the Blade was called Bladepact

[still plover]

(2014 only) would seem to do.

[knotty pasture]

Yeah let's try that, I think I jumped between three different nicks to no avail so far

[hidden spindle]

2014 Enjoyer

[exotic sinew]

Is it dumb if I use a character for a campaign or one shot and then keep the level 1 version of the character aside unless I want to use it in a different campaign with different people or should I always make brand new people

[still plover]

5.Only.

[glad arch]

Your name is quite long to see the last part on mobile though, keep that in mind

Or you change the whole thingz that works

[knotty pasture]

Yeah I drastically shortened it now to a more... literal name

[humble cairn]

You can re-use characters, but they might need to be tweaked to fit a new campaign. Ask the DM.

[crimson gulch]

i mean, just having the idea is fine, a different campaign may have different starting conditions so having to much preped may go to waste

[harsh hinge]

Nothing wrong with reusing a concept, so long as you're good adjusting it to fit the specific campaign.

[knotty pasture]

I was going through my Aasimar modding phrase back then too

[lyric viper]

Pings are not neccessary and you can turn them off.

2024 and 2014 can both be discussed freely in any of the appropriate channels (side non-D&D and Elder Editions) so it will be hard to control what other people discuss around you. Much like in any channel and convo, it's handy to specify which one you want to discuss. The nickname should help, but others are still going to discuss other rules around you.

[woven flint]

I was very against 2024 rules for a while until I read what they updated about my favorite classes and then I was like
"Hell yeah! This is sick!"

[knotty pasture]

Oh no its fine, its not like I'm personally irked by people talking about 2024 around me

I guess a metaphor would be like, you know you're allergic to shellfish but your neighbour really loves telling you how their shellfish recipe is the best thing ever and you should really try it out

[woven flint]

He became 2014 incarnate

[humble cairn]

(2014 only, please don't talk 2024 to me) maybe?

[knotty pasture]

Yeah I think that falls under being hostile lol

[pliant sapphire]

Hi 2014 Only!

[lyric viper]

But yes unfortunately it seems common to not read full names. Or read names at all.

[hidden spindle]

2014 Enjoyer~

[woven flint]

Salutations, the year 2014!

[humble cairn]

I don't think it's hostile? I wouldn't propose anything hostile.

[knotty pasture]

It sounded like I have a vendetta against 2024 -- I don't

[humble cairn]

I admit to not always reading screen names.

[lyric viper]

(2014 Only) should be fine, but remembering the time I had pronouns in my name and still got misgendered... yeaaaaaah

[knotty pasture]

Oh that's just the net, sorry to hear though

[exotic sinew]

Okay I was just curious cause I played a monk for a singular one shot thing at a convention ages ago it was my first ever experience with dnd and I still have the character sheet but I have never played that character again or a monk again so I wanna explore him a little more

[stoic haven]

oh, ew, that sucks

[humble cairn]

That's perfectly fine, imo, but again ask your DM.

[halcyon bison]

I'm curious, what were people's first classes?

[woven flint]

I try not to Gender anyone

Everyone is just friend to me unless I know their pronouns for certain, then I refer to them as such

[humble cairn]

I do make it a point to click on bios to find pronouns, or else default to they/them if I'm not sure.

[hidden spindle]

Wizard & I regret it

[knotty pasture]

I made a Dragonborn Paladin after accidentally wandering into a homebrew wiki site for dnd, and I was convinced Paladins have a Fanatic subclass or whatever its called

[woven flint]

My first class was Monk
And I loved it

[humble cairn]

Bard and I do not regret it. 🙂

[exotic sinew]

Will do when it comes around to it. It is going to be a long time before we start a new campaign so will just have to see if I remember when it comes around to it lol

[knotty pasture]

I was awfully disappointed when I found out that I can't be a literal religious nut

[lyric viper]

For D&D overall, Druid. For 5e, Fey Warlock.

[crimson gulch]

i mean you can be a religious nut as any class

[hidden spindle]

Came around to love Martials

[crimson gulch]

Class and subclass to not define your personality

[knotty pasture]

Yeah but the Fanatic had features that actively felt like I was brainwashing people into an army of sorts

It was my literal first game there's no way I would have known

[woven flint]

My First REAL TTRPG character for someone's own made System was a Gladiator-Witch Multiclass lmao

[hidden spindle]

Found out about my Analysis Paralysis

[crimson gulch]

yeah, your going to have problems like that when your not working directly from the books thats for sure

[exotic sinew]

It would be a bit strange to be an atheist cleric

[woven flint]

Weapons and Potions, babeh

[crimson gulch]

not at all, clerics can even exist in the absense of gods

[halcyon bison]

Sometimes strangeness makes for interesting stories!

[knotty pasture]

Think it was an online one shot, I thought I was being smart by looking up things online

[still plover]

Fighter, in ye olde days. 5e, warlock.

[crimson gulch]

yeah folks whos learning is online only have a harder time with things than folks that got ahold of a players handbook in my experience

[humble cairn]

Not at all, you can be a Cleric and have faith in something other than a god.

[woven flint]

Cleric is very much the "I'm built different" class lol
In a good way

[halcyon bison]

I like the idea of an athiest assimar cleric who dislikes the gods but they just keep blessing them and they're very annoyed about it

[lyric viper]

First was Druid/Shifter, but was slightly annoyed that the 3.5 equivalent Master of Many Forms essentially needed druid for wild shape. I loved my Bard/Ranger/Master of Many forms who was one of my longest played PCs.

[exotic sinew]

But then again it would also be strange to be an atheist in the DnD universe where gods are very much proven real and and mess with stuff all the time just for their entertainment

[knotty pasture]

Atheist Clerics are a hard sell

[humble cairn]

Clerics can draw power from their Faith in cosmic principles like Love or Justice.

[knotty pasture]

Well, I guess Clerics don't need to worship gods, just a concept would do

[exotic sinew]

I can finally have faith in myself 😂😂

[crimson gulch]

they have that to in places, the Athar posit that there are no gods and the entitys that claim godhood are just very powerfull mortal spellcasters

[hidden spindle]

Made a Cleric without a deity but a spiritual aspect

[humble cairn]

Atheist covers a few different things, "I don't believe gods exist" is only one of them. You can also be an atheist by simply not worshipping any of them even if you believe they exist.

[woven flint]

All my Clerics have had deities, alas 😭

[halcyon bison]

There are some alternative interpertations of the word due to that.
You could belive that the gods are just really powerful but not otherwise special, or that no god is deserving of worship, or just be a consipracy theorist who geniunely doesn't belive in the gods

[knotty pasture]

My concept was a Light Cleric of Chauntea

[lyric viper]

Mm, athiesm doesn't mean without faith, just without a deity. Or worship in one. Some useful terms for D&D is also Alatrism (recognition of the existence of deities, but no worship of them) and Henothiesm (Recognition of other deities, but devotion to one)

[knotty pasture]

Something something light to help plants grow

[still plover]

Aasimar whose adventuring life is their exam to ascend to divinity.

[exotic sinew]

What you described though is agnostic not atheist

[still plover]

Which they found out after being bailed out of prison...

[woven flint]

Let's see here are all the Clerics I've had so Far (subclass wise) and the Deity they've had
Grave (Kelemvor)
Trickery (Vhaeraun)
War (Hoar The Doombringer)
Knowledge (Ohgma)

[solar nebula]

should we kick out a player (if we do there will be 3 players not including me, the dm left) for only about 3 months so that we can rearrange our schedules to fit DND, because they do something every single day at an annoying hour.

[humble cairn]

I kind of want to make a Cleric who worships the Truth. Like the Qowat Milat and their Way of Absolute Candor.

[hidden spindle]

That works

[humble cairn]

Agnosticism is often called soft atheism.

[halcyon bison]

I've made one cleric and she was a follower of Loki
I'm a little sad about it cause I turned down an opportuntiy to cause ragnarock because I didn't want to betray the party OOC

[woven flint]

I know it's not really his domain

But I'd love to make a Peace Cleric of Ilmater

[still plover]

Those wacky Romulans! So counter-culture.

[limber trail]

If players can’t consistently attend scheduled sessions then it may be worth having a conversation with your group about it

[hidden spindle]

What is the disturbance

[humble cairn]

What Domain, though? Order?

[still plover]

Eh. Idea. Drow?

[woven flint]

I'm surprised that Helm isn't an Order domain Deity

[exotic sinew]

Interesting 🤔

[humble cairn]

Maybe?

[solar nebula]

he has some additional say judo lessons etc. for everyone else in the group both Tuesday and Friday work out but only for him not.

[still plover]

I'm not well versed on domains, as it turns out.

[humble cairn]

Ooh Light

[still plover]

Like it.

[humble cairn]

Asha, the Flame of Truth. Zoroastrianism baby!

[knotty pasture]

Yeah just kick the guy

[solar nebula]

Im also considering not ending the session when he goes, so that he can still play for about 3 hours every session, but the rest still play (his levels ofc stay the same as the other players)

[humble cairn]

But tbf Knowledge probably also works.

[still plover]

Their character could go on a solo expedition and reunite later when judo has finished with new stories and the same levels as the party.

[solar nebula]

ye I also thought about that

[hidden spindle]

I second the kick

But only because, I hate it when people stop the entire session for 1 person.

The show must go on~

[knotty pasture]

A two strike system to make it more formal, but up to you

[hidden spindle]

Fair

[knotty pasture]

So it'd seem fair to some extent rather than something personal

[still plover]

Not a kick as such, they're just taking a break from it for scheduling reasons. No need to be adversarial.

[hidden spindle]

That's also fair. They can come back when their schedule works for them

[solar nebula]

yeah

[turbid tinsel]

That's why you back up so when the enemy starts coming after you, you can just 180 and double dash AWAY!

[severe rampart]

Yeah, also just realized I haven't been applying my racial ASIs to my bard, gonna really strengthen him now, glad I caught that before it's been many sessions

Themberchaude no!

[turbid tinsel]

Themberchhaude YESSS!

Sorry... Team4Star has ruined "Name No!" statements for me..

[lofty tide]

ruined? I'd say it's perfect

[stray atlas]

so which deity would y'all say is the most good?

[minor cargo]

What do you mean by most good? Like which one we like the most?

[severe fox]

i undertand why but i still dont like that temptest cleircs dont get lightning bolt

[still plover]

For real? Outrageous.

[stray atlas]

no the one that is the most morally good

[severe fox]

yeah they only get storm cloud and thunderwave

1st Fog Cloud, Thunderwave
3rd Gust of Wind, Shatter
5th Call Lightning, Sleet Storm
7th Control Water, Ice Storm
9th Destructive Wave, Insect Plague

[crystal latch]

Replacing call lightning with lightning bolt would be an improvement ig

99% of the value of tempest is Sleet Storm anyway

[marble lion]

i think what really matters is how long the player is gone during "doing something annoying at a certain hour" and why they do it

if its something they cant change, and they really want to play, having them drop out for a moment every session sounds like the best way to me

[severe fox]

i still wanna know who thought making twilight cleric was a good idea

[solar nebula]

for around 1.5h at max

[marble lion]

if they just decide to go on a 30 minute smoke break thats kinda on them and id be insulted that they value their smoke break

[severe fox]

300ft of darkvision for what

[marble lion]

like is it important?

i think it really matters if what theyre doing is important or not

if its not important, theyre showing that they dont care much