dnd-discussion

[rough basalt]

Uh what

[marble lion]

Huh

[barren panther]

unless you're getting punched by the hypothetical negative damage monk from a few days ago lol (but that's also against RAW)

[rough basalt]

If a Tarrasque is roaring at me, I'd rather not be deafened and take 12d12 thunder damage.
I'd rather take half damage and be fine.

[past marsh]

Monsters used to be built to save options were always stronger.

Monsters are now built so that they do roughly the same damage no matter what they do

[feral fulcrum]

Lacking Absorb Elements as a Caster, and throwing down with something with a 12d8 Breath Weapon = "Are you trying to get killed?" Also Crunchy and Good with Ketchup reference.

[reef copper]

Shield is better than absorb elements because you “usually” absorb spells, and in that case when it is a spell i would hopefully be in the position to counterspell wich i would prefer doing.

[rough basalt]

No, they just lost saves on attack rolls that had saving throw riders

[reef copper]

But absorbing half damage is good

[rough basalt]

Stuff like Hellfire Orb and Beholder Eye Rays and whatnot still has saves

Which for Beholders, they removed some of the save or suck aspects for save or half

[past marsh]

If I’m a mean, DM, I’m going to look at you casting absorb elements and just not do that type of damage to you again that round

[rough basalt]

Like new Disintegration Ray does half on a save and still disintegrates on 0hp

[past marsh]

And it’s fairly easy to do that

[rough basalt]

So I'd rather save and probably not hit 0hp

[past marsh]

Shield is more of a hurdle

[marble lion]

Thats not mean, thats basic strategy

[rough basalt]

Absorb elements is a reaction.

[past marsh]

That’s making a lot of assumptions

Like for example, that the monster fighting you knows how the spell works

[marble lion]

Only very unintelligent enemies will pump the same elemental damage into a spellcaster resisting it with an overt spell

[serene jolt]

What's better:
A monoclass Rogue or a multiclass Rogue?

Explain your answers. I'm curious what other people think.

[feral fulcrum]

Monoclass because you're not screwing up your progression.

[rough basalt]

Mono
Sneak attack dice get funny

[past marsh]

Absorb elements doesn’t say anything about it creating a visible magic effect

[marble lion]

Not to mention its still useful because not every enemy just randomly has other equally strong elemental attacks

[rough basalt]

Magic is very blatant.

[past marsh]

Whether it does, it’s up to interpretation

[marble lion]

Magic is perceivable

[past marsh]

Of course, casting the spell is

[feral fulcrum]

"Hmm, I breathed fire on him, he seems mostly unharmed. Guess that's not weird at all."

[reef copper]

Unless you make specific builds wich there are plenty of. Solo class is usually better for general efficiency

[marble lion]

Thats not mean

[past marsh]

My point is the monster doesn’t always know how long that spell is going to last

[serene jolt]

That's curious. Most people I talk to swear by multiclass Rogue because they say "It gets terrible after a certain level".

Kind of like how most people feel about Paladin once they reach level 7(?).

[rough basalt]

Some skyrim npc thought

[past marsh]

They also don’t know if the spell that you cast is actually related to the fact that you resisted it or not

[feral fulcrum]

Have you been to the Cloud District Lately, oh who am I kidding, of course you haven't.

[rough basalt]

They know you resisted it

[reef copper]

Rogue is not good in combat and people that make builds usually dont use rogue because of it

[rough basalt]

They don't need to know why

[marble lion]

Its a pretty solid guess if theyre sentient creatures

[past marsh]

You could have resisted it naturally, andyou cast a spell that did something else that they aren’t perceiving

[marble lion]

I agree not everything should know this

[harsh hollow]

If it's not a spell it was likely something magic on your person at the very least.

[past marsh]

And yes, they also might not know what spells are

[marble lion]

How many human adventurers naturally resist firebreath?

[crystal latch]

Multiclass definitely, its progression is bad

[rough basalt]

Yeah, especially for Dragons who are also spellcasters.
If they see you going "Booga Booga booga!" And not being as hurt by their breath weapon they probably will assume you used magic

[marble lion]

The enemies grow up in the dnd world

[past marsh]

Most draconic sorcerers probably

[marble lion]

They will have some ideas about resistances

[harsh hollow]

"Must just be a weird tiefling."

[rough basalt]

Certain tieflings

Tho you can tell them by the things on their head and behind.

[past marsh]

‘It’s magic I can do anything’ also means that anything is possible

Maybe I drink a potion of fire resistance before I got here

[marble lion]

Nothing is certain but its very reasonable for enemies to react to absorb elements. Thats not being mean

[past marsh]

The monster doesn’t know

[feral fulcrum]

Depends on the kind of Teifling, the obvious signs vary wildly outside of the typically depicted "Horns and Tail and bright colored skin."

[past marsh]

I would agree, reasonable spellcaster should definitely know what’s happening

[marble lion]

You cast a reaction spell in the same moment

[rough basalt]

Yeah, skin tone.
Smell.
Eyes.

[harsh hollow]

I think it's reasonable to say they'd only know it's absorb elements if you hit them with the element later. And even then presumably not everyone in the world knows about every spell.

[sly crest]

I think a gnoll or rakshasa tiefling could actually be really cool

[past marsh]

But you definitely have to separate when and where this becomes Meta gaming

[marble lion]

You also are seemingly saying that they should ignore you being resistant just because they dont know its a spell?

If they think its a potion or racial, theyd still avoid repeating it

[past marsh]

No, I’m not saying that at all

[serene jolt]

I mean Absorb Elements has at least a somatic component, which means there is a chance they can get an idea of the fact that you casted a spell.

[past marsh]

I’m saying they don’t have any idea one way or the other

[feral fulcrum]

A Rakshasha can't be a Tiefling, unless you meant a Tiefling that looked like a Rakshasha?

[rough basalt]

Yeah you yell magic words and flap your arms then you brush off Dragon breath? Definitely magic.

[harsh hollow]

They way tiefling are described makes them seem more like a lineage than a race, I'm surprised they didn't try out a version that works like that when lineages released.

[past marsh]

And it’s also based on a level of certainty, you don’t truly have

[marble lion]

Definitely a good guess

[sly crest]

that's what I mean

[past marsh]

If I resist a fire spell once that doesn’t mean that I have fire resistance per se

It could mean that I have a very strong constitution or I got very lucky

[harsh hollow]

They just hit you from the wrong angle.

[past marsh]

Yeah, this sort of thing

[marble lion]

Its true
But you also cast a spell

[serene jolt]

If you cast it with Subtle or have a class/subclass feature, I'd say it's fair that they noticed you looked like you didn't take as much damage as normal. But that can be from anything. Maybe you're a species that is resistant. Maybe you drank a potion.

[rough basalt]

Yeah but you waved your arms and yelled "alakazam"

[past marsh]

There’s 1 million reasons why something could happen here

[marble lion]

Run your game thinking its mean metagaming then

[rough basalt]

Anything with 8 or higher int could at least ponder the idea you used magic.

[marble lion]

This seems like an impossible degree of this to me so ill disagree

[rough basalt]

Especially since you're using magic on them

[marble lion]

At that point half the things we do in dnd are meta and bad

[feral fulcrum]

How often people forget about Components. And that Verbal And Somatic are very obvious.

[past marsh]

But this has nothing to do with the point I was conveying, which is that absorb elements is extremely ignorable and shield isn’t

You’ll be glad you had it when dragon breath happens

[rough basalt]

Yeah I've had people try to guidance in Stealth situations and I have to remind them they're doing fortnite dances while singing

[feral fulcrum]

I greatly disagree about that, but I don't think any argument I make will convince you

[serene jolt]

Now what I do get frustrated with DMs over is when we can't see the rolls to know if we should use Shield or not, which is fine. But the DM can, if their creatures have Shield. So they can easily just decide to or not to use Shield based on the roll- essentially metagaming.

[past marsh]

The rest of the time it’s just ok. Shield is never bad

[reef copper]

I just want to say that somatic components mean you make gestures related to the spell to form it. A wizard would probably instantly recognize absorb elements

[rough basalt]

Shield isn't always good either

[feral fulcrum]

But it's never really Bad either.

[serene jolt]

Not entirely true. It's said that every spell can look different depending on the character. It would still need an arcana check. Unless the DM determines otherwise.

[rough basalt]

Yep, it's pretty balance right in the center

[marble lion]

Since that is intended feature of shield, id say thats pretty annoying yeah

[past marsh]

Especially if you built around it

[crystal latch]

Shield is one of the best 1sts

[past marsh]

If your plan is to have ac 27, that’s a good plan

[rough basalt]

You don't need a check to think somethings magic, just to know what the spell exactly is.

[reef copper]

Where?

Somatic (S)

Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.

[serene jolt]

I'm saying they would be able to tell they are casting a spell (unless using subtle) but not exactly what spell it is.

[rough basalt]

Yeah.

[serene jolt]

Not unless the DM thinks it's fair for a character to know, they'll normally have you roll an arcana.

[rough basalt]

Foundry tells them what the spell is in my games when I use it, but I lead up with flavor so when it shows up it has impact.

[reef copper]

If handgeatures are free to be what the player wants anyone that uses their hands when speaking can effectively cast subtle spell if it only requires somatic

[cursive fjord]

Correct me if im wrong but spelljammer is the kind of spacey pirate kinda book corrext?

[harsh hollow]

This is true, yes.

[rough basalt]

It's Space Opera DnD.
There are space pirates in it, yes.

[still plover]

Yup! Flash Gordon with a broadsword and space galleon.

[harsh hollow]

And hippos who are genetically good at guns.

[rough basalt]

A warning tho, Spelljammer 5e is very lackluster.

[uncut zenith]

Yeah, it’s a space fantasy that at least as of 2024 is based heavily on Flash Gordon and Treasure Planet

[cursive fjord]

I get Spelljammer and Strixhaven mixed much apprixated it. I never had an interest in playing it until I just thought of a character for it

[harsh hollow]

Honestly you're better off taking the species and using them elsewhere.

[crystal latch]

Spelljammer 5e isn't even the Spelljammer setting

[rough basalt]

Spelljammer is cool, it's just WotC dropped the ball for it in 5e

Most of the guide is ship statblocks and nothing else besides the few character options.

[harsh hollow]

I grabbed nearly all of them back when you could still buy stuff individually. I regret not grabbing a couple but can't justify buying the whole book just for that.

[uncut zenith]

I mean, it is. Even if it’s very different from what it was in prior editions.

[harsh hollow]

Knowing my luck if I did they'd turn around and reprint them right after.

[crystal latch]

Spelljammer is set on the Prime Material Plane, 5e Spelljammer is set in the Astral Plane and doesn't have crystal spheres
It's a change on par with setting Curse of Strahd in Eberron instead of Ravenloft

[rough basalt]

I hope they release a proper spelljammer sourcebook

[harsh hollow]

I've heard Thri-Kreen are from Dark Sun too though, or are at least also there? There's a chance they could get reprinted if that Dark Sun setting book really is coming.

[uncut zenith]

Yeah, that’s a pretty bad comparison

[rough basalt]

Ye if Dark Sun 5e doesn't get canceled they'll be reprinted in it probably

They originated as playable from Athas in Dark Sun 2e.

[uncut zenith]

Like I said, just because it’s not what it used to be doesn’t mean Spelljammer doesn’t at least aim for the same genre and themes that it always used to. Which is space opera/fantasy.

[rough basalt]

Ye it was just lazy

If you got Scifi love in your heart, you can do what WotC feared to do.
Make something out of it.

[crystal latch]

Spelljammer isn't just a set of themes though, it's a campaign setting

[uncut zenith]

The setting guide itself is disappointing, but it still gets the base point across. It’s D&D in space.

[harsh hollow]

I assume WoTC will probably make new Spelljammer and Strixhaven books, it's a lot easier to work from bases they already have.

[uncut zenith]

All (or at least most) official campaign settings are built off a set of themes first and foremost.

[barren panther]

I mean by that logic, CoS isn't what it's supposed to be either. Barovia got super fleshed out compared to AD&D, didn't it?

[harsh hollow]

I hope if they do give new Strixhaven they give the original subclass idea they scrapped a spin.

[barren panther]

like the original Ravenloft module was just the village and the castle

[crystal latch]

Is Cazador's palace in bg3 a Ravenloft location because it has a gothic vampire vibe, or a Forgotten Realms location because it's literally on Toril?

[rough basalt]

It's a Baldurs Gate location cause it's a property in Baldurs Gate

[crystal latch]

Exactly. Now, if something is not set in the Spelljammer setting but on the Astral Plane, is it the Spelljammer setting?

[rough basalt]

Which btw, the HoA of Baldurs Gate should get on him for the stench of blood always coming out of his place.

[uncut zenith]

Why can’t you have both? They’re not mutually exclusive. You can have both a gothic horror location in a high fantasy setting and a setting built on horror.

[barren panther]

isn't Ravenloft technically ||in the Shadowfell|| or am I not remembering that correctly

[rough basalt]

He really brings down the local property values

Ye the Domains of Dread are demiplanes in the shadowfell

[barren panther]

yeah thought so

I believe I have VRGtR on ddb but I never really fleshed out my campaign beyond CoS

[rough basalt]

5e has done some good stuff setting wise, I just hope Spelljammer gets a 2nd sourcebook like Eberron did.

[crystal latch]

You can have gothic horror locations in places that aren't the Domains of Dread - that's not Ravenloft, of course
You can build a flying city as a wizard - doesn't automatically make you Netherese
You can have spaceships in places that aren't the phlogiston - doesn't make it Spelljammer

[rough basalt]

Same with Dragonlance.
Both settings deserve a proper guide.

Since Dragonlances only thing in 5e was mainly to sell a board game it was attached to.

I'm AAGs biggest opp if you can't tell

If Astral Adventurers Guide doesn't have a hater then I'm gone.

[uncut zenith]

Your argument isn’t that Spelljammer 5E isn’t Spelljammer, it’s that you don’t like the changes they’ve made to it in 5E. The latter is a valid opinion, you’re not the only one who doesn’t like what Spelljammer looks like in 5E, but the former is just an untrue statement.

[rough basalt]

Least Starfinder exists

You can use it as inspiration for Spelljammer.

[crystal latch]

My argument is that it's not the same setting at all because it is not the same world

[uncut zenith]

There’s a difference between saying “Spelljammer 5E isn’t Spelljammer” and “I don’t like Spelljammer 5E compared to prior editions.”

[harsh hollow]

All I've really heard of Dragonlance is how deeply people hate Kender.

[rough basalt]

Ye it's still Spelljammer.
It's just a bad book.

[crystal latch]

My dislike of the new setting is separate from it being distinct from Spelljammer

[stoic haven]

I have come to realize how useless grappling is in 2014 without your allies present

[rough basalt]

It's funny how it's
Spelljammer (5e)
The cooler Spelljammer (SF2e)

[stoic haven]

My character of 4 sessions (level 11) just died, he was a replacement for my hexblade

[rough basalt]

SF2e is just Spelljammer with sunglasses and a full million dollar fit on

[barren panther]

ehh SF definitely has a lot more actual sci-fi in it

[crystal latch]

Grappling is quite underwhelming in general

[rough basalt]

Ye it leans more towards star wars than treasure planet

[burnt valley]

Grappling is pretty l4m3

[uncut zenith]

Starfinder is also designed to be more sci-fi while Spelljammer is designed to be more space fantasy

[barren panther]

zackly

[rough basalt]

But my main point is both are from the same roots, but one is being fleshed out with love while the other was released to try and get money out of old fans by capitalizing on the name.

[harsh hollow]

The image I was always given was something along the lines of Treasure Planet, but admittedly I haven't seen much.

[barren panther]

iirc wasn't spelljammer kinda not well loved back in the 2e days either?

[rough basalt]

It's the vibe, but they don't give you much of anything to try and capture it.

[crystal latch]

2e spelljammer lore had some peak moments
Like how beholders actually built a Death Star

[rough basalt]

Not really, but it had actual lore and stuff

5e ripped out a lot of it and only kept some vague snippets in ship statblocks and Large Luigi

That might be why

Large Luigi decided he was enough and that you don't need to adventure, only to eat at his restaurant.

[uncut zenith]

The other thing to keep in mind with Spelljammer though is that they thought about redesigning it to be more like the space between worlds you can visit. So it’s more like a transitional setting (in that you spend more time traveling between worlds) than a traditional one.

[burnt valley]

wait what really? that's pretty cool

[rough basalt]

Yeah they just tell you to basically go to the Forgotten Realms.

There's 2 pages about space and it's like "there's like lots of systems, but here's where Toril is. Go there."

[crystal latch]

Shout out to the 5e Spelljammer module for being a railroad that makes no sense in any established official setting

[barren panther]

I was planning on trying to figure out a way to get my Greyhawk characters to Waterdeep for DotMM via Spelljammer material but that seemed like too much work, I just started over lol

[rough basalt]

Yeah, the module expects you to end sessions on cliffhangers like a cartoon

And the themes are all over the place

[echo meteor]

its interesting that many D&D tables handwave away the 10gp cost of summoning a familiar...
if they didn't, people wouldn't be using their familiars to do risky and stupid things

[crystal latch]

10 gp is just really little at higher levels

[uncut zenith]

In fairness, that’s like a Star Trek arc

[rough basalt]

You go from yeehaw space to ||genocide||, then yeehaw space, then it's over, go back to the Forgotten Realms.

[harsh hollow]

Sounds like it was made to be sort of slotted into existing campaigns as something else to do, kind of like how Strixhaven is in a seperate plane so you can come and go.

[uncut zenith]

And also in fairness, so is Flash Gordon. Which the adventure is heavily inspired by.

[echo meteor]

Sure, but its still a cost you have to consciously choose to make.. "do i risk 10gp to use my familiar to scout?"

[crystal latch]

"you have to save the world from annihilation at level 5"
Where is everyone higher-level than the PCs?

[uncut zenith]

I’m not saying I like the adventure, but I can at least see where they were going with it

[rough basalt]

Yeah true.
Biggest issue is they want thr adventure ran like a TV show.

[echo meteor]

or.. "do i risk using my familiar in combat, and have it die... costing me 10gp"

[rough basalt]

So if the players reach the end of the episode too fast, time to end the session or have weird moments of "here's a cliffhanger! Oh wait. We have 2 hours left. Roll initiative."

[crystal latch]

10 gp is a lot when you're making tens of gp per encounter
It's not a lot when you're making hundreds
It's nothing when you're making thousands

[harsh hollow]

Reminds me of a TTRPG a friend was showing me recently where the game was literally based around a TV network with the classes being what show you were the host of. Can't quite remember the name of it.

[barren panther]

yeah I only see that being a big issue in a pretty low-treasure campaign like CoS or something. And even then the treasure picks up late game

[uncut zenith]

Episodic adventures is something they were toying with in that adventure, and actually the new DMG does have info on running episodic campaigns

It’s mostly geared towards people who want campaigns with less traveling between quests

[rough basalt]

Yeah. Sorry but I think it's the worst 5e book.

[harsh hollow]

Monster of the Week is kind of framed like that too.

[rough basalt]

And that's saying something when SCAG exists

[potent vector]

Is it all the DM fiat?

[crystal latch]

Going by DMG expectations for treasure, loot scales at a pace of around 10^(T+1) where T = current tier of play

[barren panther]

a lot of people will agree with you there haha

[crystal latch]

I would say the worst 5e book is still Eve of Ruin

[rough basalt]

90% of it the dm needs to make up if you're not just using a spelljammer to go around places.

[uncut zenith]

Oh I also dislike the adventure, I’m not defending the adventure itself. I just get where they were kinda coming from on a design POV

[rough basalt]

I imagine Hasbro or WotC execs forced it out the door

[crystal latch]

Eve of Ruin, Turn of Fortune's Wheel, Spelljammer and Radiant Citadel are generally the top contenders

[potent vector]

They do it well imo, I've had some GREAT "episodes" of MotW

[uncut zenith]

I also don’t think Spelljammer is horrible, but it was definitely very disappointing

[rough basalt]

I saw a reddit post that put it pretty well

[harsh hollow]

It's such a different vibe too, a lot more touch-and-go than DnD tends to be. Probably shouldn't go into it too much in DnD Discussion though. x3

[barren panther]

I will say I was part of a one shot of that Spelljammer introduction and everyone else in my party including the DM were in the Navy IRL, I feel like that made it kinda interesting with the ship handling haha

[rough basalt]

"Spelljammer is like getting really good potatoes with your very crappy steak" or something like that

[potent vector]

Rly??? I adored Spelljammer. That is the mechanics, I didn't play the adventure because I convinced DM to play One Piece in Space

[barren panther]

see that sounds fun

I tried to run my Greyhawk campaign episodic and I was kinda sturggling with it

not sure if that's just me being an inexperienced DM or what

[rough basalt]

Yeah it's considered one of the most disappointing books of 5th edition.

Not cause Spelljammer ain't cool, it's just the books aren't good and put most of the work on the DM.

[umbral girder]

Easiest thing I learned is look up a monster and it's little lore section and try to make an adventure off of that.

[potent vector]

The only part I ever heard poor things Abt it was either the feats in backgrounds (which I didn't understand, since most played with feats at level one anyway)

Or Hadozee

[umbral girder]

Oh yeah in recent stuff (now in 2024) Backgrounds give you a feat tied to the background.

[potent vector]

Ah. I don't have an issue with that usually, as long as it seems they are specifically giving me tools to do it myself, which is what a lot of it did for me

[rough basalt]

Basically my issues are
Most of the Guide is ship statblocks and little to no guidance on how to use them.
Adventure isn't good, but they had a good idea.
And the monster book is pretty eh.

[crystal latch]

I dislike feats being tied to backgrounds even more than I dislike backgrounds as a mechanic in general

[barren panther]

I did a little bit of that plus the suggestions for Greyhawk adventures in the 2024 dmg but I just got kinda burnt out after a while

[umbral girder]

Dragonlance, Planescape, Book of Many Things, Bigby's, and Spelljammer all do the feats with a background now.

[rough basalt]

If I'm buying a "Guide" I want a Guide.

Not just a toolbox with a piece of paper that says "instructions" misspelled and it's gibberish.

[potent vector]

That's definitely fair. I like to look at it holistically though, as in if I understand what those tools are anyway and understand that the ones I got were high quality (imo, they were).

Generally, if you're looking for mechanics for space in DND, you know why your looking for them and where to use them

[rough basalt]

I think the tools were subpar at best.

[potent vector]

To each their own . . .

[rough basalt]

One of my biggest tabletop regrets was buying the Spelljammer box set.
Only trumped by buying SCAG.

[uncut zenith]

The other disappointment re: Spelljammer was how little we got out of it for how much we paid. Especially for people who bought it through DDB.

[rough basalt]

Least the DM screen and the Rock of Bral map are pretty

[crystal latch]

5e generally has an annoying tendency to give you very little content for what you pay

[rough basalt]

When I bought the box set I was expecting disappointment, but I thought it'd be serviceable at least.

[sharp belfry]

That's why I only get the fries from McDonald's

[crystal latch]

Time travel to the years of 3.5e and tell someone that 5e releases a magic school book with a single-digit number of spells lmao

[rough basalt]

I could really go for some mcdonalds.

[barren panther]

as a sides enjoyer I don't see a problem there haha

[sharp belfry]

I never played 3.5, but it seems really fun

[crystal latch]

It is

[umbral girder]

Its a lot.

Just a lot of stuff overall.

[sharp belfry]

They had so many classes, options. I was making a warforged juggernaut artificer

[rough basalt]

Well the problem is.
A lot of people love sides and their main course.
So when the main course was burnt by the janitor who accidentally bumped the stove knob its sad.

[rough basalt]

It was the Wild West for WotC

They were releasing new content every 5 minutes

[umbral girder]

3.5e was them making random stuff on a monthly, maybe weekly basis and throwing out there.

[sharp belfry]

I like 5e rules until XGE

[crystal latch]

3.5e has plenty of content and it's generally quite well thought-out
You have properly defined check DCs, exploration gets a lot of support and they actually tried to make martials good (4e did that way better though)

[umbral girder]

It was the "see what sticks to the wall" method

[barren panther]

I've looked at some of those old players handbooks and stuff too, those are DENSE

[rough basalt]

WotC was like "our players want content? Splendid. Give them content."

[umbral girder]

3.5e with the quantity over quality stuff then.

[crystal latch]

There's plenty of quality in there

[jovial shadow]

Do you think 5e rules are somewhat complicated? 3.0 and 3.5 says 'hold my beer'

[sharp belfry]

I don't know much about dnds business strategy, but it really seems like it just became more and more whitewashed to support the growing fanbase from CR and ST

[crystal latch]

Unfortunately

[barren panther]

yeah I've played Starfinder 1e which I guess is kinda close to the 3.5/PF1e rules and dang that's complicated

[umbral girder]

Yeah it was rather messy overall and had bloat issues, likely what contributed to updating the system.

[crystal latch]

Tbh D&D's game design quality changing over the years, especially since 2014, kind of reminds me of the elves slowly leaving Middle-earth in LOTR

[sharp belfry]

Slowly loosing their magic

[umbral girder]

4e and 2024 definitely took a shift to focus on the fact this is a social game and to be aware of the people at the table with you.

[burnt valley]

What would be a greater alternative mechanic?

[sharp belfry]

Whats everyones opinion on orcs being a race now?

[crystal latch]

4e did many good things overall, though the move towards asymmetrical design was something I wish never happened

[lavish flame]

its fine, I wish they were a lil cooler tbh

[umbral girder]

Always have been since LotR.

[barren panther]

I think ninja meant playable

[crystal latch]

Varying number of skill proficiencies based on your class
[number] + Intelligence modifier from a list
May select a skill from off the list by spending two picks

[umbral girder]

4e was very good but in the wrong time and place. Glad it paved the way for The gamemaster book of villains, Flee mortals, Daggerheart, and Draw Steel at least.

[burnt valley]

Ohhh like swse

[crystal latch]

d20 generally peaked with SW Saga Edition yeah

[lunar crag]

Does anyone know what is best for dice rolling with playing online with friends?

[barren panther]

depends on what you're using to play online

[crystal latch]

I wish 5e was made as a 3.5/4e hybrid instead of being... well, 5e

[barren panther]

if it's roll20 or ddb just use that

[lavish flame]

that what they're asking

[lunar crag]

I was gonna get a bot for discord

But d20 always works

[rough basalt]

Avrae is pretty good

[barren panther]

I see, maybe I read that wrong

yeah avrae's decent

[burnt valley]

4e's abit too balanced for my taste, just wished they weren't as trigger happy into nerfing certain shenanigans

[sharp belfry]

5e as a system can be pretty bland, but I enjoy it a bit because of that. It's nice TTRPGs have a simple face that everyone can get into.

Just sucks the rules you read keep getting dumbed down

[lunar crag]

Alright, I'll check out avrae

[crystal latch]

My main issue with 4e is the asymmetrical PC/NPC design, which 5e doubled down on

[lunar crag]

TY

[burnt valley]

wdym by aysmmetrical design?

[crystal latch]

PCs and NPCs who should be of the same class not being built using the same rules

You know how the 5e lich statblock doesn't have a subclass, feats etc.?

[burnt valley]

Yeah?

[sharp belfry]

Balanced is fine, as long as there are options. Like say MTG arena. It's great to have 10 or so starter dule decks that play different and are on (somewhat) equal footing, but can get bland at times. The jump in game mode lets you make decks that are still predetermined, but they are made to suit your tastes and can be amywhere from shit to grate

[lavish flame]

in 3e/3.5/pf1 days, enemies often had PC class levels. this is symmetrical design

[sharp belfry]

The 2024 lich can deal 16d12 damage consistently

[umbral girder]

I get why, if running groups of bad guys it is very difficult for a DM to remember everything the different classes/subclasses do.

[crystal latch]

This is also a matter of 5e having quite a bit of feature bloat

[barren panther]

CR is my least favorite thing in this game

[crystal latch]

The 3.5e wizard just had Spellcasting and bonus feats

[sharp belfry]

What do you miss about older editions?

I miss consequences

[karmic mason]

Question for you all

When will you think teamkill is necessary?

[barren panther]

those still exist lmao

[lavish flame]

customization and 4e's Powers

[barren panther]

necessary?

[karmic mason]

Best option or required for a party

[loud tendon]

Define what you mean by teamkill please

[crystal latch]

The math (faster scaling, proficiency bonus has severe problems)
Skills actually existing outside of like... five of them
Martials getting meaningful options in Tome of Battle and 4e
Magic item creation in 3.5e
Prestige classes

[barren panther]

never really

[karmic mason]

Infighting, pvp, fisticuffs, however you put it

[sharp belfry]

When they know an obstacle can kill them all

[barren panther]

I'm trying to tell a collaborative story with my players not murder their characters mercilessly

[sharp belfry]

Oh. Im fine with that

[barren panther]

oh you mean like pvp? I thought you meant when is a tpk necessary

[uncut zenith]

Never

[karmic mason]

I'm just asking when you would deem it necessary for a group to stay together (mostly)

[sharp belfry]

Na. But I'll add it to my games

[glass granite]

When it is either completely agreed upon prior and is for a good reason, or has close to no consequences.

[lavish flame]

Prestige Classes is a good call. I really hope we get those in some capacity in 2024.

[sharp belfry]

You do you, eland enjoy it

[uncut zenith]

The group should be actively working to stick together, even if their characters don’t see eye-to-eye all the time. If anybody in the party is looking to start PvP that wasn’t agreed upon above the table, that needs to be addressed above the table.

[karmic mason]

Alright good to know

(Also hi again Nugget)

[loud tendon]

Unless there are enemy mobs that somehow controlled a teammate and making them fight one another, it should be almost never imo.

Having some tensions amongst teammates can make for story, but they shouldn't actively hate one party member. Its meant to be a cooperative storytelling game.

[glass granite]

Wahzzup

[sharp belfry]

Imagine we get a book like the artificer that has a bunch of prestige classes

[karmic mason]

What if it's a player who the DM can't wrangle and they did something incredibly detrimental to the party?

[crystal latch]

And of course symmetrical design and more templates

[barren panther]

then you talk to them outside of the game

[karmic mason]

Alright.

[burnt valley]

correct me if im wrong, Ur-Priest and Beholder Mage were prestige classes right?

[uncut zenith]

Then the DM needs to talk to them above table. In-game “solutions” don’t solve out-of-game problems.

[barren panther]

they're probably not a fit for the table, no need to make everyone's game miserable over it

[crystal latch]

Yes

[karmic mason]

now what about if it's pvp without the intention of killing each other (like dramatic introductions, tournaments, or other stuff like that), is that alright?

[potent vector]

Prestige classes are a REALLY cool idea I wish they ironed out of from 5e play tests. I wish they at least tried it in 2024 playtests, since it could be a chance to make multiclassing more interesting.

[sharp belfry]

Are you running a game @crystal latch ?

[loud tendon]

Some people play characters "the way their character would do such and such", which is usually an excuse for a player to let their character be selfish/rude/totally against the vibe of the party.

In a lot of these cases I feel it is because people expect it to be like a video game where they are the main character and everyone else is really supporting and your actions have no consequences

[glass granite]

Only if completely agreed by both sides for a good reason.

[uncut zenith]

Sure. As long as it’s agreed to by the players and not just the characters.

[karmic mason]

They think they're the main character

In reality we're just characters from a third person perspective

[glass granite]

And also won’t take too long

[crystal latch]

I wish PrCs were implemented instead of subclasses

[barren panther]

yeah friendly competition is a much different story from full on pvp

[glass granite]

They’re the main character in the sense the story follows their perspective
So they’re not COMPLETELY off. They just forget the other characters are also main characters.

[sharp belfry]

I, do agree with this, but I find myself saying the exact same thing.

Is it a problem to do what your character would do, as long as it's not an exuse to be an ass?

[karmic mason]

So it's third person perspective

[uncut zenith]

There should never be one main character in a D&D party, they’re a group of main characters who should be sharing the spotlight.

[sharp belfry]

Im fine with a main PC. I would just like to sign up to that before hand

[barren panther]

if it's to the point where your character is being antisocial or actively working against the party you need to question why the character would even be on this adventure in the first place

making other players' games less enjoyable because of your character's roleplay is against the spirit of the game

[sharp belfry]

Na, nothing like that. I just like when my characters hurt themselves out of there own morals/understanding. And when tension is there based off ethics

[barren panther]

well the second part is vague and can get super dicey

[loud tendon]

Not a problem in that sense, no. Id say not at all. Because things i, CalamityJayn, personally think or would/wouldn't do might be very different from the choices my character is making based off of who they are.

What my characters would do is not always a bad thing its just bad in the scenario we were talking about before. An excuse to be disruptive/disrespectful to others at thw table

[barren panther]

but yes having a flawed character and roleplaying as such is fun

[karmic mason]

There's a video game that has a person who rarely works alongside their group, but it's because she just waits for her own goals, and after reaching that, she keeps going with her group and becomes less antisocial

[barren panther]

this is not a video game

[karmic mason]

I know

[barren panther]

a lot of other people don't grasp that

[karmic mason]

I'm just showing an example of how a character that doesn't necessarily work alongside a group can be done well

[rough basalt]

Yeah like if in my upcoming game, the party survives off robbing travelers of their water and food, they'll become known as criminals and be KOS for Desert Dwellers (people who live outside the main cities)

[barren panther]

is it done well though if you decide that you can't play well with others until you get to a certain part of the story, everyone else has to suffer until then?

[karmic mason]

now if you have a "dark broody edgelord rogue" who just wants to kill stuff and that's it

that's not flawed thats just poor design

[naive cedar]

Your character needs to be willing to work with a group, even if they dont like it or want to do it, in order to work in DND. Its that simple

[karmic mason]

Necessarily, i.e, tries not to make themselves completely out there, but still puts in an effort

[sharp belfry]

I like building characters who are in general antagonistic as well as nore grounded reasonable folks.

An example of the more antagonist sort is one my my goblins, clet, whos basically just Rigby and Rocket delt with a shittyier upbringing. However, despite all his cursing and ankle bitting and stealing, hes okay. He has a friend thats a Goliath war cleric he would die for, and that's the bond he has that keeps him in the party, and he goes where he goes

[karmic mason]

It could be for some reason, like unfinished business with someone they fear, an old friend who betrayed them, making them trust less, or a believed curse that will take something from them

[naive cedar]

So they just go along with what the group's doing without neccesarily leading? That can work yeah

[potent mountain]

Hey dungeoneers

Whats going on

[karmic mason]

and not necessarily trusting them until a bit later

that could be a bit difficult to handle but it could be done

There is one situation where this could absolutely go wrong though

If a PC tries to screw around with this character, it could make it harder for them to trust the party, or just that one player

[vale sage]

dragoning😎 u?

[potent mountain]

Not dragoning my dungeons unfortunately

Day 6 of trying to find a campaign

I just wanna dungeon my dragon

[blissful ibex]

takes a bit tbf

[potent mountain]

It does

[blissful ibex]

jsut gotta be dilligant in checking LFP postings

[vale sage]

it really does my guy

[potent mountain]

I just wanna kiss my sahuagin, drive my airship, drink my health pot

[potent mountain]

I do, hourly I'll get em some day

[small jacinth]

Where can I find older rules like 3e 3.5 and 4e

[barren panther]

#dnd-elder-editions but I think WOTC has them all on DrivethruRPG

[vale sage]

i just realized that dungeoning your dragons sounds like you’re capturing dragons and imprisoning them or something

[barren panther]

I know they do for 1e and 2e

[small jacinth]

Drive through rpg?

Tis an app or website?

[crystal latch]

Website

[hushed mason]

They're also available on Archive.org.

And if it is against the rules to say that, I've yet to be corrected.

WOTC doesn't seem to be very interested in defending their intellectual property rights with regards to third edition.

[barren panther]

when Stranger Things 2 that takes place in 2001 comes out, maybe, haha

[hushed mason]

I play 3.5 exclusively. 🙂

Although, my 2024 PHB did just arrive today, as my daughter wants to learn.

[barren panther]

I've always been curious about 3/3.5 but since it's not 5e or OSR it doesn't really seem like it has the same clout lately

it's like stuck in the middle

[small jacinth]

HELP ME PLEASE may i dm for a question or 2

[barren panther]

you could prob just post in #dnd-elder-editions

[hushed mason]

Let's chat in #dnd-elder-editions so we dont get in trouble.

[hushed mason]

You can also DM me. Thanks for asking.

[iron herald]

I enjoyed 3e a lot, but it was often really fiddly. Tons of tiny bonuses and buffs to track, decision fatigue with all the prestige classes.

I like 5e's simplicity, although it does seem more on-rails and restrictive in some ways.

[small jacinth]

Yeah I just wanted to take some whack bard spells

[iron herald]

3e does have one of my favorite classes, the Shadowcaster. It was very different to divine and arcane casters.

[crystal latch]

I'm a big Dread Necromancer fan

DN optimization is different than most fullcasters because you automatically know your entire class spell list

So things like the Arcane Disciple feat have more value

[stoic obsidian]

Yo party people

[indigo inlet]

Hi

[icy oxide]

Hi

[indigo inlet]

I know that guy

[small jacinth]

Pale master here

Also how do I change my roles I’m not new to dnd I’ve played for a year and a half

[indigo inlet]

I think it means new to the server not to dnd

[small jacinth]

No I’ve been here longer than you

[indigo inlet]

Idk then

[small jacinth]

It’s a role I picked when I first joined 😭

[indigo inlet]

I joined like 5 minutes ago

[indigo inlet]

Ohhhh haha idk how to change it then

Wait go to the very top of channels

[harsh hinge]

id:customize

[indigo inlet]

It says channels and roles

Yeah do that

[lethal otter]

my dm just sugested silvery barbsing a players death saving throw

[fallen thicket]

What are considered the best rare items for a Barbarian?

[burnt valley]

take the gloves off and start not fighting fair

[glad arch]

#dnd-advertisements

Its likely to be removed if send here

[rich jetty]

mb

[karmic pendant]

Probably some kind of weapon

[craggy summit]

Tbh there isn't a whole lot of super useful stuff. I suppose the cloak of displacement to make yourself harder to hit, belt of hill giant strength if your strength isn't already maxed, or a flametongue weapon

Or the amulet of health if your con isn't maxed

[harsh hollow]

One of those funny sentient weapons with a lot of effects that's always judging you.

[fallen thicket]

I don't know them. Are there many of those?

[livid forge]

Hellooooo

[reef tundra]

Bracers of unarmoured defence

Lets them get the benefit of a shield while being able to use two handed weapons

[harsh hollow]

The Moonblade is the first one that comes to mind, but you have to be an elf of a certain alignment or it will reject you.

[fallen thicket]

Not the case. My character is a Plasmoid

[reef tundra]

I’d also say flame tongue

[harsh hollow]

There's also Blackrazor, as long as your character isn't Lawful.

[reef tundra]

While I think it’s better in the hands of a fighter due to the more attacks, it can still do pretty good with a barbarian

[barren panther]

Horn of Valhalla

[reef tundra]

Oooh yes, the horn of Valhalla

[harsh hollow]

It looks like Blackrazor eats enemies and gives you temp HP for it, and as long as you have that temp HP you have advantage on most things.

[reef tundra]

I would also say cloak of protection for more AC and bonus to saving throws

[harsh hollow]

Ooh, but it looks like if it doesn't eat anything once per day it will fight you at sunset. How cinematic. :O

[barren panther]

I also saw Berserker Axe, but that's also ||cursed||

[reef tundra]

And ring of protection too

[fallen thicket]

I know this one and I've already chosen it too. We're playing at level 13 and the game master let us choose 3 uncommon items and 1 rare item.

[harsh hollow]

Oh, I think most of the weapons I'm talking about are Legendary/Artifacts so those are out. x3

[barren panther]

oh yeah the Horn is Very Rare

[reef tundra]

I think it’s worth it, despite the curse

More HP and a nice little bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls

Just make sure your allies aren’t too close to you when you fight

Otherwise the curse will just do the playing for you in a way

[barren panther]

Wind up the barbarian and let them rip

[reef tundra]

Oh wait I just noticed that your remain berserk until there are no creatures you can hear or see within 60 feet

[barren panther]

oh snap hahaha

[reef tundra]

You might have to have the party step far away from you when you’re nearing the end of combat

[fallen thicket]

Yeah, I think I'll go with the Flame Tongue then.

[reef tundra]

Yeah, safe bet. More damage, no inconvenience at the end of every combat

Also a barbarian with a flame tongue is cool as hell

[fallen thicket]

And it also makes sense with my character, since he has a central relationship with fire.

[tiny hatch]

quick question, why did the DND bot flag my artworks as AI 😭

[barren panther]

take it up with the mods?

[tiny hatch]

yup! tried to get a mod

[barren panther]

seems like you're not the only one

[glass granite]

Mhm

Three reports in 10 minutes

[tiny hatch]

yeah I think im seeing other users right now creating tickets

[supple stirrup]

Im a new dm does somone who is an experienced dm wanna give me some tips on a world ive been righting?

[glass granite]

Go to #dm-world-building

[potent mountain]

im a player but an enjoyer of literature, do i count

[supple stirrup]

Ok sorry just joined

[potent mountain]

hey dungeoneers, and nugget hey nugget my goat

[glass granite]

Just saying that’s the best place to get feedback

[supple stirrup]

Yea I mean let somone see if it sounds good and entristing

[glass granite]

Wahzzuppp

[potent mountain]

what happened to the first nugget?

[glass granite]

They’re simply more Nuggety than me

[potent mountain]

dang 😔

[glass granite]

By virtue of being a chicken

[potent mountain]

i feel so cool having a title

[potent mountain]

i was just gonna say the first nugget is just a mcdonald's 6 piece

[granite fossil]

Im scared

[potent mountain]

wiseau

[granite fossil]

Everyone from my Party Is Coming to a session tmrw and that never happened

5 players, 0 prep

[blissful spruce]

Felldrake as animal companion possible?

[granite fossil]

Ohh wrong channel sorries

Im supposed to be in #dm-discussion aint i?

[potent mountain]

any works

[still plover]

Pop over to #dm-world-building, tell us what you have in mind.

[potent mountain]

gasp

[barren panther]

does felldrake even have a 5e statblock?

[potent mountain]

Mr Smith???

[granite fossil]

I HAVE A NEW IDEA AND I NEED SOMEONE WHO IS QUITE CRAZY ENOUGH TO DO IT

[potent mountain]

pray tell

[fallen thicket]

tell us

[granite fossil]

I was thinking about a new way to play, make it more pvpey, i need someone to play a Mindflayer BBEG, Roleplay and everything, before my sessions he tells me what the bbeg would do, and in combat hops on call

We also have a pretty wierd initiation system but thats a story for another day

[potent mountain]

that's...

a genius idea actually WHY DONT MORE PEOPLE DO THIS???

[granite fossil]

This is my first time dming so im js throwing crazy ideas out like anything i think about

[granite fossil]

THANKSSSS OMGOMGOMG

[potent mountain]

wait ykw

i'd be so up for ts depending on the timezone and party

[granite fossil]

My dad used to tell me stories from his sessions back in the 2000s and i was always into dming and i js started

[granite fossil]

Whats the time for you?

[potent mountain]

EST

[barren panther]

I played a pvp one shot under the assumption that they were all throwaway characters that would probably die and it was a lot of fun, but I'd never do anything like that for a campaign

[granite fossil]

I think im Central Europe

CET

So we play when you wake up lmaooo

[potent mountain]

what was your question?

[potent mountain]

i can go like halfway6 by making actions but i cant show up for battles

[granite fossil]

Yeahh bett

[supple stirrup]

Does anyone wanna do a session with me to test out some of my campaign ive been writing im new dm so if yes might need some explanations before spells are casted 😅

[potent mountain]

maybe ill give you a funny line or two to say

[granite fossil]

Hell yeahhh

[barren panther]

all you guys should be using #find-a-game

[potent mountain]

i just join the gc and go
"Hi its me John BBEG im gonna be killing yall later, goodluck!"

[supple stirrup]

Oh my bad new to server

[granite fossil]

HELL YEAH

[granite fossil]

Yeaaaa

[potent mountain]

just talk to them in character 24/7

[granite fossil]

OH YEAHHHH, DM NOWWWW

[potent mountain]

hit them with reaction images edited to be mind flayer themed

[barren panther]

what was your question?

[potent vector]

What was the question?

[barren panther]

we may never know

[potent vector]

I got a question lol, and #dnd-rules is kinda dead rn

"When time is short, such as in combat, interactions with objects are limited: one free interaction per turn. That interaction must occur during a creature’s movement or action. Any additional interactions require the Utilize action, as explained in “Combat” later in this chapter"

Since it says per turn and not per round, or anything about not being able to until the start of your next turn, does that mean if I moved with my Reaction I can make another free object interaction?

Example: Vengeance Paladin

[rough basalt]

Nah.
Reactions are Reactions.

[barren panther]

what does this have to do with coffee?

[hasty glacier]

it punny

[potent vector]

It says during a creature's movement or Action. If it was just Action I'd agree flatly

[barren panther]

oh brew

[rough basalt]

Movement on your turn yeah

[potent vector]

Ba-dum-tsk

[rough basalt]

What you're asking would be DM fiat as you're not meant to be doing object interactions as part of a reaction for something else.

[potent vector]

Doesn't specify on your turn, just once per turn

[rough basalt]

For example on a Vengeance Pally, you're attacking and moving in like a second.
So how are you also rooting through your bag or something else that requires your attention and hands.

[potent vector]

. . . The same way you would if you were jumping 10ft in the air, which RAW, is movement

So would make just as much sense

[still plover]

You said that already. I dunno and we're not in #dnd-rules , so I'll say I'd rule: yes, maybe, if you hadn't already used your free Use on your go. I wouldn't agree with getting an extra.

[rough basalt]

The "once per turn" bit was likely assuming someone wasn't trying to get free object interactions.

The whole "rulings require good faith" deal

[crystal latch]

I think this might just work, I recall a line about reactions being a type of action

[rough basalt]

It's a Special Action since it's something that can occur outside your turn.

[potent vector]

(As for the good faith part, I'd totally allow this for example, for a Vengeance Paladin who's disarmed yoinking a spare weapon while rushing in for an OA)

[crystal latch]

A Reaction is a special action taken in response to a trigger defined in the Reaction's description. You can take a Reaction on another creature's turn, and if you take it on your turn, you can do so even if you also take an action, a Bonus Action, or both. Once you take a Reaction, you can't take another one until the start of your next turn. The Opportunity Attack is a Reaction available to all creatures.

When time is short, such as in combat, interactions with objects are limited: one free interaction per turn. That interaction must occur during a creature's movement or action. Any additional interactions require the Utilize action, as explained in "Combat" later in this chapter.

Yeah, this should work

Nice tech

[rough basalt]

Drawing a weapon as part of your reaction to attack sure, but you're not rooting through your bag for something while attacking someone and running within a split second.

[crystal latch]

I knew about the same wording in the context of bonus actions, but not about object interactions

[burnt valley]

how does it work?

[rough basalt]

A reaction is a split second decision triggered by something

For example Counterspell is you seeing them move their hands and mouth so you counter their spell before it goes off.

[crystal latch]

Reaction defined as a special action -> thing that you can do during your action

[burnt valley]

so i can use shield during my turn

[crystal latch]

Well, you always could

The tech is that if you Shield during an enemy's turn you can close an extra door

[burnt valley]

This is spood

[potent vector]

Or pull an extra lever

[rough basalt]

Keep in mind a DM might not allow that.

[potent vector]

Nah, not on your turn. Specifically off turn (free interaction is one per turn)

Wait. Withdraw Cunning Action off turn Sneak Attack

Lots of possibilities if my DM okays this . . .

[crystal latch]

Finally, rogues getting something worthwhile

[limber trail]

It does work - the ability states it grants additional movement, it's a similar wording to vengeance paladin opportunity attacks.

[rough basalt]

I think it's one of those cases where the designers used the wrong word so personally I wouldn't allow it

Cause someone doing a spell in a split second while also closing doors or raising gates just seems a bit too ridiculous

[limber trail]

(Being very clear, I'm referring to rogue's withdraw)

[crystal latch]

There are plenty of ridiculous things in this system, this one isn't an infinity

[limber trail]

Yeah I also don't think I'd let players get an object interaction as a part of using a reaction

[crystal latch]

I'd definitely allow it, seems RAW and even throws r*gues a bone

[rough basalt]

Definitely seems like a wrong word choice and relying on the "rules rely on good faith"

[crystal latch]

That entire phrase is just the DMG saying "please don't poke holes in our slop and shill for the big company that can't proofread"

[rough basalt]

Actually it's "you're in a game with other people, you shouldn't be using loopholes to gain more power over others or exploit wordings."

[atomic kayak]

Considering how people try to make stuff up in bad faith about stuff that quite literally doesn't have more than one valid interpretation supported by the text...

[barren panther]

more like "please don't do the peasant railgun just because you heard about it on Youtube"

[atomic kayak]

But mostly that ^ yea

[crystal latch]

The peasant railgun isn't an exploit
It's simply nothing at all

[rough basalt]

Yeah whole "social contract" section is cause bad behavior like trying to exploit wordings, use YT shorts as a gospel. And of course, DMs not removing the guy harassing the table cause "a good dm doesn't say no" advice that certain internet circles like to flout.

[burnt valley]

infinitesimal rogue w

[barren panther]

what does that mean? It's a bad faith interpretation of the rules and the use of free actions

[crystal latch]

Which rules does peasant railgun "interpret" at all?

[potent vector]

Ofc Imma ask my DM Abt this. It seems worth mentioning RAW this is possible if a DM allows it.

[burnt valley]

the whole peasant railgun thing exploits literally nothing because it relies on a ruling that doesnt exist

[potent vector]

So a player has no grounds to even attempt it, why it's nothing

[pallid oracle]

whats peasant railgun... new coffee lock type of build but 2024?

[crystal latch]

Peasant railgun is a meme from the ancient days

[eager marsh]

coffeelock is also bad tbh it has no actually good breakpoints

[rough basalt]

People argued that you can give a line of peasants a spear and ready action all of them so it speeds up to lightspeed and railguns something.

[atomic kayak]

No? Its literally based on the rule of all turns happenings within a six second round regardless of number of combatants

[eager marsh]

its based around physics that dont exist

in 5e*

[atomic kayak]

The rest isnt based on any other rules sure, but its based on a rule, even if fundamentally flawed.

Much like many other bad faith interpretation things

[potent vector]

Basically, held action in combat have 1000 peasant pass a spear to the next person in line and end initiative at the end of the line to slingshot a hyper sonic projectile.

There's no rules Abt momentum causing damage in DND besides maybe crash damage, which is not the same as this.

[pallid oracle]

coffee lock isnt that bad if you can cast greater restoration often or playing a one-shot with combat. having essentially unlimited spell slots is pretty good.

[potent vector]

So it doesn't actually exist

[rough basalt]

Doesn't matter.
People argued it cause "muh physics"

[burnt valley]

no access to 9th level spells tho

[pallid oracle]

Plenty of other good spells to use that arent 9th level...

[eager marsh]

no. the exhaustion thing for not sleeping is an optional rule and not even related to the combo being good. having 'infinite' spell slots of much lower levels than you can effectively use is the issue.

[rough basalt]

"Physics" and "realism" is an often talking point when trying to do stuff the game doesn't intend for the reason of breaking jt.

[atomic kayak]

no 9th level slots is largely irrelevant, but coffelock has far from "essentially unlimited" spell slots

[pallid oracle]

id take that deal tbh.

[crystal latch]

Coffeelock just uses its downtime to print extra one-use slots

[eager marsh]

You are locked into balancing the warlock and sorcerer levels such that there isnt any particularly noteworthly balance points for it to even be 'ok' vs just having the real spell slots a single class can use

[atomic kayak]

And this is ofc besides the fact that coffelock makes a lot of assumptions about how a game is being run and played

[crystal latch]

The correct move for coffeelock is always going to be sorc X/warlock 2-3

[atomic kayak]

Which is to say: its something of a nothingburger in practice. Its just a normal warlock/sorcerer build that might get an extra slot or three every once and a while

[rough basalt]

Ye a coffee lock in my games would die of exhaustion or their enemies would just perform World Ender plan V while they're sitting around.

[pallid oracle]

yeah thats why I brought it up originally, because the whole idea of the build was essentially a bad faith interpretation of the system to make a build that traditionally shouldnt work

sounds familiar to this peasant rail gun thing

[atomic kayak]

the issue is coffelock isn't a bad faith thing

[crystal latch]

Admittedly coffeelocking is a nice toy that gives sorc another small niche over wizard

[atomic kayak]

Coffelock does technically work. Just not well.

Bad faith stuff doesn't

[crystal latch]

I'd still take a wizard over it every time

[rough basalt]

My belief is that if you need to say stuff like
"Well it says here, and technically that means this, and technically" to make something work then I'm already looking at statblocks ignoring you.

[pallid oracle]

yeah same tbh

[crystal latch]

Because the single biggest thing that defines your build's power level is your spell list and the difference between sorc and wiz is that huge

[atomic kayak]

not really

Wizards have a large list sure, but in terms of "spells people actually bring up as being relevant" its a difference of like. 10.

[pallid oracle]

my hot take is that the type of players who attempt to bend the wording of rules to fit some "creative" thing to break the game just suck in general.

[limber trail]

I don't necessarily understand the benefit of coffeelock. You're still going to need to wait for your party to long rest. You get more stuff back on a short rest sure, but I've never seen games with tons of short rests even in campaigns where they see a lot of use.

[pallid oracle]

its like the kid who reminds the teacher about homework, why you doing that bud

[rough basalt]

The kid who reminds the teacher about homework for a different class and the teacher just stares at them dumbfounded.

[crystal latch]

The difference is big enough is that I wouldn't ever consider sorlock a substitute for my party's first wizard, maybe second

But I'd rather have a druidlock over a sorlock

[supple stirrup]

I don’t know these words

[rough basalt]

"This means that and this technically means that."
"Timmy. This is PE, serve the volleyball"

[atomic kayak]

Incidentally, this happens when people say "wizards are good because they have a big list" generally too even outside of the context of comparison to sorcerers, because they only ever bring up the same 10 spells in that scenario too

If your metric of "its good" is "it has a big list" but then you only ever look at 5% of said list... then your metric and logic are flawed

[potent vector]

Druidlock= Druid + Warlock Multiclass.

Sorlock= Sorcerer + Warlock Multiclass

[crystal latch]

It's good because it has a better list

[supple stirrup]

Ok

[crystal latch]

It doesn't matter what percentage of the list is good

[atomic kayak]

druid warlock is underrated fun

[pallid oracle]

whats cool about a druid warlock?

[rough basalt]

Come to think of it, I rarely see wizards in my games.

[barren panther]

you will eventually

[rough basalt]

Casters at all for that matter.

[pallid oracle]

because theyre a time investment class. not something youre gonna feel immediately powerful with.

[supple stirrup]

Hay im trying being a new dm is hard

[atomic kayak]

I mean. It does lol. If you are not using 90% of the list, then that 90% does not rate in the metric of making it good. More options doesn't make something inerently better if the majority of those options are not used or good lol

[crystal latch]

The good druid spells barely care about Wisdom, so you can afford to prioritize Cha on a Druid X/Warlock 2 and have good role compression

[potent vector]

Linear Martial versus Quadratic Caster moment

[barren panther]

gotta start somewhere. Have you read any of the rules yet?

[atomic kayak]

"its good because it has more options but you only ever want 2 of them" is not the winning argument people try to act like it is

[crystal latch]

If you have, say, 15 spells prepared at max, it primarily matters how good your 15-20 best spells are

[atomic kayak]

you are literally proving my point lol

[pallid oracle]

eh other casters have more consistent spike points too. warlocks and sorcs have way better early game. even druids

[crystal latch]

The total value you are outputting with your spells is higher if your spell list is better

[supple stirrup]

😅 I mean I know the stats and most of the stuff but I haven’t read it and I’m big on my home brew stuff

[rough basalt]

My current party is a Fighter, Monk, Rogue and Bard.
It's pretty fun.

[crystal latch]

Sleet Storm > Spirit Guardians => Wizard > Cleric

[rough basalt]

They put out a lot of damage and control (Shadow Monk, Lore Bard)

[atomic kayak]

anyway. I have run one twice. Its nothing particularly special but its fun. Good thematic linking between a lot of the stuff though

[pallid oracle]

interesting, do most druids go hexblade as their pact or

[crystal latch]

Hexblade, Undead or Genie

[rough basalt]

Undeads fun

[pallid oracle]

im playing a hexblade college of swords bard atm. been a blast

[potent vector]

Undead? Oooh. Zombie Deer Wildshape.

[crystal latch]

Tbf there's barely any wild shape involved because most druidlocks are Wildfire

[atomic kayak]

Fiend Wildfire and Celestial Stars

I've been eyeing doing an Undead Spores at some point

[crystal latch]

There's a decent thing where you go Genie (Efreeti) to add fire damage to one EB per turn and trigger wildfire 6

But that's a minor thing, it's mostly just about wildfire's 2nd level feature being good

I'd consider druidlock to be a good alternative to wizard #2 in a 2wiz2lock comp

[atomic kayak]

anyway the thematics were fun

[rough basalt]

I wonder what kinda party ima have for my upcoming game

It'd be funny if the campaign set in a country where everyone can cast a few spells had a non-magical party

[crystal latch]

I generally regard 2 wizards + 2 warlocks as the strongest 4-man comp, with some variation

[atomic kayak]

comps like that don't actually really matter, but sure

[atomic kayak]

when you say non magical do you just mean non spellslot caster or just non magical entirely? in which case you have... maybe fighter? maybe rogue?

[rough basalt]

Like non-caster

With a little magic like MI or certain subs they'd be like majority of people

If they do have a fullcaster they'll be in a good place.

[atomic kayak]

gotcha

[karmic mason]

Question. How difficult would it be to make a homebrew based off of Helldivers 2?

[rough basalt]

Very

[karmic mason]

alright but it could possibly be done, right?

[rough basalt]

Anything can be done, just a matter of should

[karmic mason]

but what if it's not the divers themselves, but SEAF soldiers or a similar set

[rough basalt]

Same case.

[stuck shuttle]

With homebrew anything is possible. Making sure it’s balanced is another thing.

[rough basalt]

You'd pretty much have to make an entire new system yourself

[karmic mason]

yeah fair there IS a reason Helldivers gives you respawns

[fossil hollow]

As always, there might be another system that does helldiving better than DND

[stuck shuttle]

It’s also a good thing to consider if 5e is the right TTRPG to satisfactorily translate Helldivers

[atomic kayak]

(its not)

[karmic mason]

now, here's a second question

Could you make a TTRPG off of Project Moon's universe?

[atomic kayak]

you could make a ttrpg off of any number of things

[fossil hollow]

same answer as before

[stuck shuttle]

Yes? TTRPGs are just mechanical rulesets

[karmic mason]

wait yeah

but would it be easy to balance?

short answer...maybe????

[atomic kayak]

not really

[rough basalt]

Same answer applies.
Can make it, doesn't mean it'll work well.

[fossil hollow]

Creating a TTRPG is something that is not to be taken lightly

but at this point its getting off topic

[karmic mason]

so like, the power system in the Project Moon universe is weird. A lot of it is based on skills, prosthetics, and similar stuff

[rough basalt]

A lot of current popular tabletop systems are based off frankenstein'd existing ones.

[karmic mason]

yeah let's not talk this here

now here's another question that for once isn't that dumb. Does the damage of a weapon change depending on how fast it, or the user, is moving, or no?

[rough basalt]

No

[fossil hollow]

no

[past blaze]

Nope

[karmic mason]

Alright good to know

[past blaze]

The damage is just what's listed and it doesn't list that it changes on speed

[potent mountain]

no

[karmic mason]

There goes my idea of having a rogue climb onto a high wall before sacrificing himself to basically do a Sephiroth on the BBEG

[rough basalt]

IRL Physics aren't a thing in DnD and arguing them can be a quick ticket to the curb.

[karmic mason]

yeah fair

[potent mountain]

anytime you think your being a smartass with the DM, he's gonna make it come back to you in the worst ways

[rough basalt]

I'd just remove someone who tries to argue physics with me.

[potent mountain]

good call

[karmic mason]

I can already think of what he'd do with me falling directly onto the BBEG with a sword held down

hitting the ground at that height would probably be a majority of hp

[burnt valley]

2wiz2lock

[potent mountain]

all that would happen is that you'd break your legs. yayyyy.

[karmic mason]

broken legs during a BBEG fight seems like it's sadistic enough for a dm

[slim halo]

Hello

[lavish flame]

Which do y'all prefer: a Bag of Holding or a Portable Hole?

[slim halo]

I just got here

[potent mountain]

bag of holding. not even close

[lavish flame]

howdy!

[potent mountain]

this is like asking what you like more: vanilla ice cream or mint chocolate chip

[karmic mason]

ok but vanilla is good

[lavish flame]

These are both ideal flavors

[potent mountain]

Yeah... that's the joke

[karmic mason]

both flavors are good though

i like mint

[rough basalt]

Aren't Portable Holes just the Rare bag of holding and it holds more?

[potent mountain]

yeah, but are you really gonna honestly choose mint chocolate chip over vanilla?

[karmic mason]

Yeah

[rough basalt]

Honestly I'd prefer the very rare bag

Hewards Handy Haversack iirc

[karmic mason]

i feel like Silas is going to roll a d100 to decide my fate now

[potent mountain]

"roll a new character while i describe what happens to you"

[karmic mason]

ah hell

[lavish flame]

Its only limited by size, not weight. BoH does 500 pounds in a 64 ft³ space. Portable Hole does any weight in a 1000 ft³ space

oh wait no its a cylinder, not a cube

[karmic mason]

wait the bag of holding has a limit?

i haven't even played yet and I'm just learning this?

[rough basalt]

Yep

[lavish flame]

6 ft diameter, 10 feet deep. you do the math for a cylinder's volume

[karmic mason]

damn

[rough basalt]

Speaking of bags of holding.

[lavish flame]

yeah, Bags of Holding have a maximum quantity

[rough basalt]

I'm kinda glad I made it in my world that they're rare

Make those PCs watch their weight

[karmic mason]

ok so that's (I think) 6^2 times 10(I think)

[lavish flame]

If you exclusively filled a Bag of Holding with coins, it'd only hold like 25,000 gold (×10 with platinum coins) or something

[potent mountain]

hoard shaming your players, smh.

can't believe the item norms set for players these days

[lavish flame]

how on god's green earth is that word not prohibited

[karmic mason]

huh

[rough basalt]

Me when I make my players watch their Encumbrance "ah yeah, that's the good stuff"

[potent mountain]

gasp EEEEEEEEVIIIILLLL!!!

imagine barnacle boy and mermaid man because we dont have gif perms 😔

[karmic mason]

also are we to believe that every weapon, regardless of size, draws in the exact same time?

[potent mountain]

unless explicitly stated, yes

[rough basalt]

Yes

[karmic mason]

so you can theoretically draw a dagger in the same time it takes to draw a waraxe somehow

[rough basalt]

Yes

[potent mountain]

yes.

[karmic mason]

meaning that is either the heaviest dagger ever or the most baby waraxe ever

[rough basalt]

DnD is not a realism simulator

[potent mountain]

you wanna argue with your dm to make it longer?

[karmic mason]

and we love this fact

[karmic mason]

no no the waraxe one is mostly accurate

the dagger though

[rough basalt]

If it were, nobody would use Firearms cause they'd only get 1 shot a combat

And combat would only last 1 round cause everyone gets tired

[potent mountain]

all spells dont exist anymore

[karmic mason]

or we'd have the issue of Cyborg Commando where you can't use a weapon after basically 10 turns due to ammo

[lavish flame]

yeah why wouldn't we?

[rough basalt]

Well running out of ammo is certainly a thing

[potent mountain]

after one greatsword hit you bleed out and die

[karmic mason]

because I could basically slap a giant rock on a stick and draw it in the same time it would take to draw a dagger

[rough basalt]

If you don't, you die from infection.

[karmic mason]

and if you don't die from infection you're paralyzed for the rest of your life or forever crippled

[echo meteor]

i feel like there’s a class that circumvents that

[rough basalt]

It's funny to theorize but there's people out there that run dnd like this.

[potent mountain]

No. No you could not infact

[rough basalt]

And usually they don't have groups last for long

[echo meteor]

is there a limit on how many stuff genie warlocks can stuff in their lamp?

[rough basalt]

Cause if they wanna die of dysentery they'll play Oregon Trail

[rough basalt]

What would that be?

[echo meteor]

is there a limit on how many stuff genie warlocks can stuff in their lamp?

[rough basalt]

Hmm that's a good question

[pallid oracle]

personally when I run games I always find a reason to gift my players a bag of holding and I dont track ammo. having a party loot feature for selling trash is kinda nice as a player and DM. I know it makes DnD more "video gamey" but its one of those quality of life things that once you try it you never really wanna go back

[limber trail]

it's a 20ft radius cylinder that's 20ft high, so that much stuff I guess.

[karmic mason]

And this is good
You can either play it realistic, or you can play it fun

[rough basalt]

Tracking ammo and Encumbrance is just part of the system, not really on realism

[echo meteor]

but that’s HUGE, it don’t care about weight???

[rough basalt]

Cause a wimpy wizard can bench more than a lot of modern people going by Encumbrance rules lol

[barren panther]

pocket dimension go brrr

[karmic mason]

So that's 40 foot diameter and a 10 foot height

[fossil hollow]

Its a magical pocket dimension

[karmic mason]

so genie warlock is able to carry more than a bag of holding

[rough basalt]

The average Commoner in dnd can bench a plate.

[karmic mason]

That's honestly the funniest thing ever

[limber trail]

I think realistic can be fun. Plenty of folks play really tense & engaging games by making encumbrance and ammo a part of the game. It doesn't matter to the styles of play a lot of people go with, and that's okay, but there are some DMs out there running some amazing games by using those rules to their fullest.

[echo meteor]

keeping track of ammo is gross, too much math/book keeping for no benefit

[rough basalt]

There is a benefit

[barren panther]

I'd only make people track special ammo like silvered arrows or something

[echo meteor]

ammo sucks thoo

1000 minus 10

[fossil hollow]

its a different style of game, thats it

[minor lake]

I'm chill with it until ppl start getting really obsessive about tracking weight

[limber trail]

It's only items that you can hold, and it's only once per day. It's not as great as a bag of holding which keeps the items on demand

[rough basalt]

Nothing better than my players getting to use their Tools to craft essential items

[echo meteor]

then math the encumberance

[minor lake]

Exactly

[barren panther]

no one's carrying 1000 arrows though haha

[rough basalt]

True.
My ranged PCs in my games only kept around 60 max

[fossil hollow]

if yer tracking arrows, high chance youre also tracking weight and just wether or not youre able to carry that much shit in the first place

[limber trail]

I play a game where (up until recently) I needed to track Ammo, and so I had to build & plan around the ammo I have. It made for way more fun, because I needed to plan long term for how many shots I can afford to take. In any game where ammo is tracked, it's in limited quantities

[pallid oracle]

yeah thats more fair tbh but its one of those things. some people like the survival elements of DnD, keeps stakes higher. Id rather focus on other things in my games

[fossil hollow]

Quivers can hold up to 20 arrows.

1000/20 means you need to wear 500 quivers

[pallid oracle]

but I can hold how many quivers....

[rough basalt]

Like my upcoming campaign, there's gonna be regular survival rolls for water

[echo meteor]

hmmm mules r really cheap btw

[rough basalt]

Cause they're in a desert country where the average temperature at their time of year is 88-91

[potent mountain]

wsg im back

[limber trail]

I'm not lugging a mule around waterdeep to carry ammo.

Also, the challenge wasn't carrying the ammo. It was finding & crafting the ammo, because that ammo was rare.

[rough basalt]

Firearm bullets?

[limber trail]

firearm bullets

[rough basalt]

Jarlaxle wasn't selling ya any

[limber trail]

He gave me some, he's a real one

[rough basalt]

True, he's the realest one of the realms

[echo meteor]

mule/donkey for carrying stuff is 8gp.

food and water is free if you have a druid xD

[fossil hollow]

oops

[limber trail]

I ended up also taking a smithy in my bastion to craft them when I need them, and then one session later I got a thunderbuss so ammo is a concern of the past

[limber trail]

hey I'm not complaing the new gun is awesome

[rough basalt]

Oh right, I will have a Ranger for that Desert game

[fossil hollow]

second gun? /jk

[rough basalt]

Tho he said he ain't taking goodberry

[echo meteor]

goodberry ftw

[limber trail]

I do have a second gun

[rough basalt]

As he wants to feel the heat

[fossil hollow]

oh rite

[echo meteor]

damn such a useless ranger

[limber trail]

they're not light tho so I can't dual wield them

[rough basalt]

Nah, just wants to engage with survival mechanics.

[fossil hollow]

Goodberry aint the only thing on a ranger, and as Sora said, its pretty cheap

[rough basalt]

Also with how dangerous the desert is, gonna need every slot

[fossil hollow]

almost like a ranger has less spell slots than a typical caster

[rough basalt]

Sure you use your one of two slots on goodberry.
Well some very dehydrated desert bandits watched you hydrate on a single berry.

[echo meteor]

i think you can survive forever with a druid

lemme check if druid can make water, or if that’s a cleric thing

[limber trail]

Yeah but then you need to deal with combat encounters too

[karmic mason]

So what's the weirdest worded DnD rule?

[limber trail]

every slot gone is a slot gone

[fossil hollow]

yes

[karmic mason]

all of them gotcha

[rough basalt]

Nice spell slot used, you won't be needing that. - The Bloodmage whose hiding underneath the sand.

[echo meteor]

yoo, druid makes food AND water

[fossil hollow]

for a third level slot. Id rather Conjure Animals

[limber trail]

I assume he's referring to create/destroy water & goodberry. Create food and water, the spell, isn't on the druid spell list

[fossil hollow]

they said and tho

[rough basalt]

Where's your cure wounds slot when your fighter gets sucked up by an abnormally large dust devil and gets tossed?

[echo meteor]

create/destroy water and goodberry yep

[echo meteor]

ehh, hope the healing cleric has the extra slots

[rough basalt]

Bold to assume you got a cleric

[potent mountain]

Guys question

Bard or artificer?

[fossil hollow]

Bard

[barren panther]

Bartificer

yeah bard

[echo meteor]

xD well, magic still makes it trivial

[fossil hollow]

Barficicer

[red steppe]

We simply dont use the slot on them

[echo meteor]

to just survive

[rough basalt]

Sure it does. But it don't make what's coming trivial.

[fossil hollow]

its almost like they didnt take it on purpose because it does

[limber trail]

It's a rare sight in my campaigns that players finish a full adventuring day and can consistently have spell slots for two spells, to the point where they can rely entirely on those spells for food and water

[rough basalt]

I've had people get exhaustion from survival with a goodberry caster in the party before

[echo meteor]

btw, you dont REALLY need heal, just take the goodberry when your down. u only need 1 point in health

and then you can short rest

the only health that matterz is the last one

[rough basalt]

Sure.
Bandits see you resting and drinking and eating.

[limber trail]

How are you gonna eat the goodberry when you're unconscious?

[echo meteor]

how do you get back up when you’re unconscious normally?

[burnt valley]

y'know you could just play dark sun right

[limber trail]

A party member could maybe feed it to you but then I'd follow the common potion rules where it's an action to feed it to someone

[fossil hollow]

technically RAW, you cant feed a goodberry to someone else

[echo meteor]

you can’t?

[fossil hollow]

doesnt say you can

[echo meteor]

sounds about right

[limber trail]

As far as the spell goes, no

[rough basalt]

Sure, but I wanna play my world.

[echo meteor]

does a health potion say you can?

[fossil hollow]

Drinking or administering a potion takes an action.

2024

As a Bonus Action, you can drink it or administer it to another creature within 5 feet of yourself.

[limber trail]

I don't understand the point this is making. Dark Sun is DnD.

[fossil hollow]

they both do. So.

[echo meteor]

i feel like most tables will let u feed ppl goodberry

[fossil hollow]

ok. Doesnt change my point though

[potent mountain]

🤨 🫳 🍿

[burnt valley]

I assume they actually have mechanics for all things survival w/o homebrew

[barren panther]

Dark Sun?

[rough basalt]

You know what I just remembered?
Deserts get freezing cold at night.

That's gonna be fun too

[barren panther]

The setting that hasn't had any material for like 30 years?

[fossil hollow]

indeed

[inland steppe]

yep. Very low humidity

[limber trail]

So dark sun doesn't have an official 5e equivalent which is the first challenge, but broadly speaking it does have survival mechanics - the survival mechanics of DnD. What we're discussing is all of the official rules for survival in dnd.

[rough basalt]

Dark Sun had a book in 4th edition iirc

[barren panther]

oh snap really? I thought 2e was the last time they touched it

[rough basalt]

Nah yeah 4e had a Dark Sun guide.

[burnt valley]

what? no

[limber trail]

nah it was 4e yeah

[fossil hollow]

technically speaking, they released UA for it a while back

[rough basalt]

Yeah if it doesn't get canceled, 5e will have one.

[echo meteor]

is there a hypothermia mechanic?

[fossil hollow]

You dont get more obvious than Defiler, Sorceror-King, and Preservation in the same document

[barren panther]

I do realize that I've made a mistake but either way, the 4e material isn't exactly relevant either

[rough basalt]

Freezing Cold checks

[limber trail]

There is. There are environmental effects for the freezing cold

[fossil hollow]

Freezing Cold, you get Exhaustion on a failed save

[rough basalt]

Also Gladiator

Gladiator was a martial class in Dark Sun 2e

[barren panther]

I know almost nothing about 4e so it makes sense that I didn't know that

[inland steppe]

who plays 4th edition anyway

[rough basalt]

Also them testing Psion

Which Psionics are a core part of Dark Sun

[barren panther]

there are plenty I'm sure

yeah Dark Sun is very low magic high Psionics iirc

[limber trail]

running extreme heat and extreme cold in the same campaign seems real fun. every hour, save for a couple hours at dawn and dusk, you roll con saves against exhaustion. Really punishing, I love it

[rough basalt]

4e is the baseline for a lot of the current popular systems

[inland steppe]

If Psions are released I’d love to make a descendant of Hous Oblodra PC of that class

[rough basalt]

Lancer uses 4es combat system
Pf2e uses PF1e and 4e
5e'24 takes a lot from 4e

Daggerheart took from 4es combat systems
Draw Steel is basically 4e 2

[echo meteor]

i guess you just get a genie warlock + druid?

[limber trail]

If you wanna cheese it sure but I don't understand why you'd want to willfully avoid the core premise of a DnD campaign to get a superficial "win" over the DM while just undercutting the fun of the group

[echo meteor]

genie warlocks r very useful wtf lol

[rough basalt]

Tbh if you don't wanna engage in survival mechanics, why are you joining a campaign where it's a core part of the campaign.
Most people ignore them so it wouldn't be too hard to find a group that does.

[potent mountain]

pray tell, i dont know about em

[limber trail]

also at low levels genie warlock doesn't let you get a full long rest, you've got four hours in the cold

[crystal latch]

Genielock is really good in general

[echo meteor]

your using spell slots, or using class benefits

[inland steppe]

Genie warlock and 2024 Great Old One are probably in the top of the warlock subclass rankings in general

[rough basalt]

Just kinda feels weird.

[limber trail]

and I cannot imagine a high stakes survival game would start at a high level (sora can comment more but this feels like the most level 1 start of all time)

[potent mountain]

pray tell

[rough basalt]

I pretty much only do level 1 starts

[crystal latch]

Not 2024 GOO, but Undead certainly

[rough basalt]

You want that subclass, gotta earn it

[limber trail]

sure but those spell slots and class benefits are undercutting the core premise & intended fantasy of the campaign. They aren't making things more fun for anyone

[crystal latch]

My 2014 warlock ranking was (mainclass warlock)
S: Undead, Genie
A: Fathomless, Fiend
B: GOO, Archfey
C: Hexblade, Celestial

Undying does not exist

2024's main change is nerfing GOOlock's spell list and late-game features and making Fiend weird

[fossil hollow]

What is undying? /j

[inland steppe]

To crudely summarize, they can fly and they’re the only warlocks who can cast wish (and bity genie wish)

[potent mountain]

WOOOO

[crystal latch]

Admittedly warlocks have a better 9th level arcanum than Wish already, but the genie features and spell list are great in general

[rough basalt]

Reason why water and food is such an issue outside of cities is actually cause Druids won't come on the mainland due to people kidnapping them for goodberries.

[echo meteor]

ahh found it..
leomund’s tiny hut…

you need to be level 5 though.. so you have to trek in the snow like every one else until you get level 5

[fossil hollow]

the yetis setting up an ambush outside the snow

[rough basalt]

Tiny Hut is visible

[echo meteor]

the hut is transparent, and visible yes

its still a great spell for survival

[rough basalt]

The Humble Purple Worm waiting underneath cause the party accidentally trampled its nest

[echo meteor]

then you have goodberries

[fossil hollow]

remorhaz burrowing from underneath the hut, making an impromptu bowl

[rough basalt]

Ooo that's a good one.

[crystal latch]

You can just exit the hut

[rough basalt]

Mummy Lord pulls an Imhotep as soon as the Hut vanishes and you get attacked by a Sandstorm with a face on it.

[fossil hollow]

not the point though

the bowl was just funny descriptor of what essentially happens

[limber trail]

You lose your long rest and are thrown into some kind of a combat encounter then.

[crystal latch]

You have to spend longer to complete the rest*

[rough basalt]

Now it's daytime and all of China knows you're here.

[echo meteor]

sure, but that’s gonna happen ANYWAYS, even if you don’t use a hut

[limber trail]

True. Regardless, survival checks to actually find a decent spot to sleep, hide that spot, move undetected, etc will keep you safer

[rough basalt]

Actually the bright ass dome would probably be harder to see in the day.

[crystal latch]

A good practice with Tiny Hut is creating several nested tiny huts

[echo meteor]

what if you make 2 tiny huts and make a sphere

[limber trail]

Having multiple third level spell slots ever to cast on multiple tiny huts is the type of greed they referenced in the bible

[crystal latch]

It's a ritual...

[echo meteor]

xD

[fossil hollow]

ah yes, 20 minutes for each