dnd-discussion

[crystal latch]

Tbf in some cases a capstone just requires an absolute slog of dead levels to get to

[grizzled lance]

The bug that’s super hard to kill

[worn lagoon]

a cockroach

[crystal latch]

2014 barbarian basically had to go through 14-ish levels of nearly featureless hit dice to get the equivalent of the Tough feat, a +2 weapon and a +2 bonus to Con saves

[grizzled lance]

Monk is a cockroach that can hit hard

I am glad it got buffed through

[marble lion]

Paladin capstones are great sometimes

[grizzled lance]

Paladin makes up for it in other ways such as aura of protection and such

[crystal latch]

I find it hard to justify taking enough levels in paladin to hit the capstone on a build, the spell list deteriorates quickly as level goes up

[grizzled lance]

And the many smites it has

[halcyon forum]

you also do get the aura expansion at level 18 or so

[crystal latch]

1sts are solid, then there's less and less overlap with the good parts of the cleric spell list

Not an uncommon thing for half-casters really, at some point they just stop getting the highlights of the closest matching fullcaster spell list

Paladin not having Spirit Guardians, Artificer's best 3rd-level spell being upcast Web etc

[grizzled lance]

Honestly in 2014/2024 it’s pretty hard to make a bad Paladin imo

You get pretty much anything you could ever want

[burnt valley]

smites is not a good justification for wasting slots

[crystal latch]

Paladin suffers from a counterintuitive positioning incentive where some of your features try to reward being in melee but the one that makes up 80% of your power basically tells you to stay within 10 feet of your casters

[grizzled lance]

Idk 2d8 is pretty good 3d8 if dead or fiend

[crystal latch]

I'd rather spend slots on Bless as a paladin, it's usually more cost-effective unless something needs to die this round or we TPK

[worn lagoon]

simply play a smitesinger so you can waste all sorts of spell slots from lv1 to lv9 on smites 👍

[crystal latch]

That is quite possibly one of the most cursed builds possible

[grizzled lance]

Yeah but Paladin is the only one who can banish someone by punching them in the face in 2024

[valid geyser]

smites have a limit to upcasting

[burnt valley]

then you are missing out on control spells, the "I Win" duo being True Polymorph and Shapechange and end up becoming Commoner from running out of slots

[grizzled lance]

That too

[worn lagoon]

do i need to type the word waste in bold

[grizzled lance]

Gimme banishing smite once per long rest and my life is yours

[crystal latch]

Pal 2/Bladesinger X is genuinely on par with going Fighter X/Sorc 3 to action surge for double chaos bolt

[worn lagoon]

how does 2 pld/18bsinger miss out on lv9 spells

[grizzled lance]

You don’t

[worn lagoon]

yes that's the point

[crystal latch]

Paladin 2 is probably the single worst dip in 5e that gets talked about

[burnt valley]

you said you are using them to waste on Smites

[grizzled lance]

Is wizard barbarian as bad as people say?

[worn lagoon]

yea

[burnt valley]

fridge, do ppl unironically run those builds

[crystal latch]

It's as good as a wizard of its wizard level

[grizzled lance]

Gotta love how wizard is still the strongest class through all editions of dnd

the glaze is wild

[burnt valley]

3.5e and 5e yes

[crystal latch]

Pretty sure that sorc might be better in 4e

[grizzled lance]

Blehh probably

I hardly played it

It was an alright system just wasn’t for me

[worn lagoon]

at least fighters are better in bg3 ig

[serene jolt]

About the convo earlier, the only downside of Artificer capstones is the slog waiting for level 11 to get spell storing xD

[grizzled lance]

True

[serene jolt]

Cuz to me, Artificer only truly shines when they get that. Not that any of their capstones are bad, but that most of the classes feel a little better.

[grizzled lance]

I like the new armorer

[limber stump]

Who else likes swordsinging wizard

[serene jolt]

But my opinion may change because I'm gonna try the new Maverick. 🤣

[worn lagoon]

it's my favorite wizard

[limber stump]

Swordsinging is goated

[grizzled lance]

Mecha

[serene jolt]

And the new Artillarist is the bomb! Literally!

[grizzled lance]

Agreeed

[worn lagoon]

i know gish aren't that good in the tabletop but it's still my peak rp fantasy so i like pact of the blade locks/bsingers

[serene jolt]

Being able to choose your canon every time you use it is awesome

[grizzled lance]

I like the map subclass but I just don’t like the name cause it’s a little boring sounding

[serene jolt]

I'm fine with the map subclass but honestly it's kinda niche and weird. XD

I personally would not choose it myself but it's neat on paper.

[grizzled lance]

Also I love how the new exploring ebberion book expands on the capstones

[serene jolt]

Have you seen the new Exploring Eberron subclasses?

[grizzled lance]

I hope more feature books do that

Gives more capstones then the ones we have currently

[serene jolt]

Oh I didn't notice that when I read the book! That's awesome!

Both of the new subclasses from Exploring Eberron look soooo good. I'm switching my Artillarist to the Maverick because it fits him perfectly. And the other one I will absolutely try some day.

[grizzled lance]

Yeah it gives one for each articfer subclass

[serene jolt]

I'll have to look at the book again, I didn't see that!

[fossil hollow]

Yeah, its a chonky book too, havnet been able to delve too much in the lore either

[serene jolt]

I'll be buying the book for my roll20 Westmarch when I get paid. It's pretty great content for a 30 dollar book.

[grizzled lance]

This one has to be my favorite of them

As a Magic action, you can overcharge your armor to unleash a torrent of energy forming a 100-foot-long, 15-foot-wide Line that blasts out from you in a direction you choose. The type of energy unleashed by the Line depends on your current armor model: Dreadnaught deals Force damage, Guardian deals Thunder damage, and Infiltrator deals Lightning damage. Each creature in the Line makes a Dexterity saving throw, taking 30d6 damage of the appropriate type on a failed save or half as much on a successful one.

[fossil hollow]

Kaaame... kammee... HAAAA

[grizzled lance]

Miku Miku beamm

Also I just gotta say maverick has to have the strongest capstone ability of them

Being able to cast any 8th level spell for free even the costly components is crazy

[jovial shadow]

How do you mean they aren't that good?

[grizzled lance]

Just maze any boss monster you come across lol

[fossil hollow]

thats what LR are for

[grizzled lance]

There is no save

It’s a check

[fossil hollow]

oh right, for some reason i thought it was a CHA save. Must be thinking of Banishment

[grizzled lance]

You banish a creature that you can see within range into a labyrinthine demiplane. The target remains there for the duration or until it escapes the maze.

The target can use its action to attempt to escape. When it does so, it makes a DC 20 Intelligence check. If it succeeds, it escapes, and the spell ends (a minotaur or goristro demon automatically succeeds).

Circle cast it to make it last even longer

[worn lagoon]

being away from the source of danger generally beats getting close

[grizzled lance]

Circle casting maze is just evil ngl

[worn lagoon]

unless you're meleelocked it's just better to become unreachable

[serene jolt]

That's super cool!

[grizzled lance]

I mean if you just take the feat meta magic adept you can extend the time to 20 minutes

[worn lagoon]

i was not responding to you

[serene jolt]

I love that Maverick just makes devices that mimic spells from other spell lists. More spell slots, plus pulling from cleric and wizard is insanely versatile.

[grizzled lance]

Maverick has the best capstone

[serene jolt]

Especially since I've been playing him as a pyromaniac, mad scientist vibes. He consistently makes devices and tests them on other party members to see if they work. He's originally from a corporation close to the Izzets. So he's pretty grey area on morality.

[worn lagoon]

this came off as standoffish but that wasn't the intent

[grizzled lance]

You can take a Magic action to cast any spell of level 8 or lower. This takes the place of the usual casting time of the spell, and you don’t need to meet any requirements to cast the spell, including costly components;

[serene jolt]

Yeah that too. Holy heck

[grizzled lance]

Just straight up ANY 8th level spell or lower

[serene jolt]

That's absolutely crazy. That's like divine intervention but 10 times better.

And I don't think Artificer otherwise even has access to level 8 spells

So it makes the ultimate Wizard-Artificer I've always wanted to have.

[grizzled lance]

Need travel? Use gate or plane shift need a summon use Illusory Dragon

[serene jolt]

Or even Resurrection!

[grizzled lance]

I love that even if a creature knows the dragon is fake it can still be damaged by it

[serene jolt]

Like under dire circumstances. Just bring your buddy back xD

[grizzled lance]

Yup

[serene jolt]

For free.

[grizzled lance]

Super good and strong capstone and allows you to do a lot

Just having access to any spell of 8th or lower allows you to do so so so much

[worn lagoon]

is there a 2024 maverick i am unaware of

[lavish flame]

for Artificer? On DndBeyond, there is

[grizzled lance]

Yea

[lavish flame]

For whatever reason, Exploring Eberron is a 2024 prpduct exclusively on DDB. everywhere else, its a 2014 product

[grizzled lance]

Btw is Otto’s dance a saving throw spell or does it happen automatically

[worn lagoon]

crazy

[worn lagoon]

i vaguely remember it not letting you save on specifically the first turn but i could be wrong

[fair summit]

Initial effect just happens, no save or nothing! After that the target must use its action to make a save, so a really handy spell 😎

[grizzled lance]

See

I see

[lavish flame]

2014 Otto's just happens. 2024 Otto's requires a Wisdom save

[worn lagoon]

making giant dragons dance

[grizzled lance]

I see

[fair summit]

Really annoyed my DM with the spell in a level 20 one shot with a massive death dragon doing the cha-cha (:
The poor DM when they tried to legendary resistance the initial cast, then waste a turn using an action and a legendary resistance to end it, just for me to cast it again lol

[fossil hollow]

It and Command are on my list of counterspell on sight

[grizzled lance]

Real

[grizzled lance]

That’s why you always have a fake out spell caster

[fossil hollow]

por que? fake out spellcaster?

[fair summit]

So sad the Aberrant Mind sorcerer's additional spells end at 5th level, otherwise my current sorcerer in that same DM's game would 100% grab the spell, being focused on mind manipulation anyways lol

[grizzled lance]

Basically wizard “I cast dissonant whispers”
Enemy :counter spell
Other spell caster: I now cast fire ball

[fossil hollow]

ooh ic

yeah, having multiple spellcasters is def one way to make them savvy about their spells

[grizzled lance]

Since you know only one reaction per turn no clue what to do if there’s more then one spell caster with counter spell

Granted the new count spell got nerfed so

[fossil hollow]

the only thing i kept from 2014 is CS funnily enough. CON save makes it too easy for monsters

[grizzled lance]

Yea but dispel is still the same which kinda make sense

[serene jolt]

I heard the one that you can add onto roll20 is also the 2024 one.

But I could be wrong

[fossil hollow]

i know the 2024 update is on DDB, but i try not to touch roll20 for the sake of my single mishappen braincell

[marble lion]

roll20 interface is not very pretty

and functional sheets are a mess

pdf sheet and owlbear all day long

[serene jolt]

I haven't bought the roll20 version yet but I will be soon.

My westmarch I'm in is exclusively roll20 resources only so I kind of have to deal with it

[fossil hollow]

owlbear is my second choice for a VTT id DDB is clunky

[serene jolt]

Which is fine because at least the sheets can be easily automated for rolls. Unlike DnDBeyond.

[grizzled lance]

I prefer dnd beyond because how clean and put together the ui is

[feral fulcrum]

D&D Beyond is however made out of sphaghetti code, and WOTC has been struggling with it

[jovial shadow]

I'm surprised that the reveal that Baldur's Gate 3 will be a series on HBO, hasn't gotten more traction/attention

[grizzled lance]

True

[marble lion]

dndbeyond is pretty but im not paying all those things

and i do too much homebrew to bother implementing it

[grizzled lance]

I’m already in too deep

[marble lion]

thats understandable for sure

[grizzled lance]

I bought the dungeon masters tier

[stiff rock]

i hate having to deal with d&dbeyond

[grizzled lance]

Y

[stiff rock]

I just find physical books and sheets so much easier to use. D&Dbeyond is so confusing to use in comparison, and it sucks to know that the stuff i buy will disappear if i'm ever not able to access the website

[scenic zinc]

Yeah, I do dislike that what I own is a license to access the content, rather than a copy of the content.

I would much more prefer also getting a pdf

[stiff rock]

It's also easy to just add homebrew when using physical stuff. I don't have to deal with the options for it on ddb

[scenic zinc]

Plenty of other TTRPGs provide pdf's. Why WotC won't also do that is beyond me. It's not as though not providing it prevents or deters piracy.

Which, to be clear, I'm against piracy.

[scenic osprey]

Hello im new to dnd could I join any groups?

[fossil hollow]

#find-a-game

[scenic osprey]

Ah OK thxs

[serene jolt]

I mean yeah I prefer using a physical sheet and minis and maps and stuff but finding a real life game is much harder than just joining a Westmarch or campaign online

[stiff rock]

Not that I use DDB but surely you can save the page as a PDF for personal use? I'm not sure if that counts as piracy or not

[fossil hollow]

because its WoTC. They hate proxies for MtG too

[serene jolt]

That being said, I have a physical game every week on Sunday. But I have a Westmarch for weekdays that I want to have a little session online. It's for my DnD cravings.

[grizzled lance]

That being said

[fossil hollow]

lucky

[scenic zinc]

"WotC bad" is, unfortunately, as good an explanation I've ever seen for it lol.

[fossil hollow]

I wish i had a irl game to DM

[stiff rock]

I'm fortunate enough to have 3-4 games a week in-person

[grizzled lance]

No you are cursed forever to dm online

[feral fulcrum]

But the Big Wigs do think "But we'll lose a gigajillion dollars from Piracy!" And that's all that matters. Never underestimate the boundless stupidity of upper management.

[serene jolt]

It took me forever to find a group where I'm at. I'm in the middle of nowhere. I just happened to have a coworker talk about how their DnD campaign just lost a player, etc etc, and I inquired about it.

I know when I move to a more populated area, I'll get more than one real life session a week.

[scenic zinc]

Which is a silly and easily disprovable concern.

It's shown that having such restrictions actually increase rates of piracy.

[serene jolt]

Nonetheless, my real life campaign has my War Cleric. And my westmarch has my Artificer (that I will be making a Maverick when I get the book), and my Archfey Warlock. I love all my characters.

[feral fulcrum]

And yet CEO's keep doing the same crap that Increases Piracy to 'stop' Piracy. While ignoring the stuff that actually, verifiably, lowers Piracy.

[fossil hollow]

shareholders, the BBEG of having good shit

[undone rain]

Cant wait to use my bard

[scenic zinc]

*capitalism

[grizzled lance]

America

[fossil hollow]

graaah

[grizzled lance]

This is America

[scenic zinc]

Unfortunately, it's a global issue.

Anywho, dnd!

[fossil hollow]

i think im gonna make House Cannith the BBEG of my Eberron game

[scenic zinc]

The inventors?

Did they not think before making some kind of magitech?

Ah. Yes... they made magic ai.

[eager marsh]

you mean every warforged?

[fossil hollow]

theyre the ones who made:

• Warfoed
• elemental airships
• Lightning rails
  to name a few things

[lavish flame]

real

[scenic zinc]

Sure. But to make them the baddies the question is 'what did they do this time?'

[fossil hollow]

spoilers for my eberron players

[lavish flame]

I can imagine they might be a little upset about the whole "its now illegal to have or use Creation Forges" on account of That Was Their Economic Model

[scenic zinc]

dm me then

[eager marsh]

i mean they can build other things. just not warforged

[fossil hollow]

ill just go to DM disc, they dont go there

[scenic zinc]

-# now they will

[fossil hollow]

i trust in them, right Tokii and Horizon? 👁️

[eager marsh]

imagine trusting your players or DM. that's how you get death saves

[fossil hollow]

i live for those moments

[grizzled lance]

All remaining systems will BOW before the first order!!

[fossil hollow]

we dont need star wars n*zis

[grizzled lance]

And they will remember this as the last day of FAERUN

[fossil hollow]

Average Bane rally

[serene jolt]

No I've had a moment where I was a wizard, I went down, I fully expected the Cleric who had a lot of spell slots left to do something about me.

He ran over to me, and used my body as a shield. Then as I failed my last death save and died, he asked the DM if he could loot my body.

He was our only "healer". -_-

[grizzled lance]

That’s literally banes followers I and love em for it

I hate the dead 3 through

[fossil hollow]

i should give my banites a german accent

[grizzled lance]

Bhaal just likes killing people

And Myrkul he just likes bones

(Yes I know it’s souls but bones sounds funnier)

[scenic zinc]

Eh? Nah. Bane doesn't want to destroy Faerun. He wants to rule it.

[fossil hollow]

Sorry Gortash, but youre gonna sound like General Hux

[fossil hollow]

yeah, and once he rules it its not gonna be Faerun anymore

[grizzled lance]

This is so real

Bane actually hates bhaal and a Mrykul as well

[scenic zinc]

What's he gunna call it? Banerun?

[fossil hollow]

.... it is now

but id spell it Bainrune

[grizzled lance]

I still love how Mrykul is an intermediate god as well I didn’t even know that was a thing until a few days

[fossil hollow]

intermediate my arse, hes Dead Last

[eager marsh]

aren't they all lesser or non-gods by technicality during their dead three states?

[grizzled lance]

Wait

[fossil hollow]

Theyre Quasi rn

[grizzled lance]

No one of them was intermediate I swear

[fossil hollow]

Quasi-semi-demi-mini-gods

[grizzled lance]

Wada hell I’m I tweaking?

[scenic zinc]

I think myrkul is back to being a god and the other two are quasi

[fossil hollow]

Bane was a Greater Deity

[grizzled lance]

I could have sworn of them was intermediate

[fossil hollow]

Myrkuul went: Greater Deity -> Dead Power -> Dead Power -> QUasi

[scenic zinc]

They all were originally when they first ascended iirc

[fossil hollow]

No. Bhaal got the short end

[scenic zinc]

good

[grizzled lance]

OH

[fossil hollow]

Lesser -> Intermediate -> intermediate -> Dead -> Quasi

[hushed mason]

Um...

[grizzled lance]

Bhaal was listed under intermediate I see I see

[scenic zinc]

The wiki isn't an official thing, so that may be why you're getting confused

[grizzled lance]

Yeah that’s what it was

[fossil hollow]

yeah, always good to check the sources in their reference list

[stiff rock]

Besides general power level is there any difference between the tiers of god?

[grizzled lance]

Amount of followers

[fossil hollow]

followers mostly yeah

and how widespread they are across hte multiverse

[stiff rock]

And are their powers limited by the amount of followers they have? Surely a percentage of unlimited is still unlimited

[scenic zinc]

That's mostly up to the story being told and who's telling it.

[fossil hollow]

yes and no, their power is proportional to it

[grizzled lance]

Like greater gods will have millions of followers while a lesser will have around 1000 to 10000

[stiff rock]

So you could, in effect, just convince 1000 people to devote their lives to you and ascend to godhood?

[grizzled lance]

It’s a lot more then that you also need a domain or to take a gods domain

[fossil hollow]

in FR, you still need Ao's permission

[grizzled lance]

This too

[scenic zinc]

Do you?

[atomic kayak]

Generally? Not really in most settings

[grizzled lance]

Ehh kinda

[fossil hollow]

jah, extreme moderator of the setting he is

he also hates getting more work, so

[scenic zinc]

Pretty sure he had no say in jergal making bane/bhaal/myrkul

[grizzled lance]

It’s the main reason why there can’t be for example “two gods of death”

[stiff rock]

Two things i will never understand are the pantheons and the planescape

[scenic zinc]

Huh.

There's way more than 2

[grizzled lance]

They have to be different

[grizzled lance]

Not exactly

[atomic kayak]

technically speaking Ao does have final say in if you can properly be a god of the FR

[grizzled lance]

There all different versions of death

[fossil hollow]

cuz Jergal was already approved iirc

[hot marlin]

So, technically: You don't need Ao's permission to become a god. You need Ao's permission to become one and be active in realmspace

[stiff rock]

Domains overlap though don't they?

[grizzled lance]

But not 1 to 1

[fossil hollow]

oh ic

[scenic zinc]

That's all still death though.

[atomic kayak]

Yea

[lavish flame]

In the Forgotten Realms, there's like 10 or more death gods

[hot marlin]

This is of course a nuance that will not be relevant most of the time

[fossil hollow]

and so, so so so so so so so so so so many War gods

[atomic kayak]

Not really. Theres plenty of gods who share direct overlap with the same concepts, not just domains

[hot marlin]

But, you know... Tharizdun did not need Ao's permission

[fossil hollow]

isnt he an Elder Evil

[scenic zinc]

No

[hot marlin]

And a god. "Elder evil" is not a... Thing in itself.

[grizzled lance]

Like for example jergal was the lord of the death and hit splint it into 3

[fossil hollow]

ive always thought he was just predating Ao or something

[hot marlin]

It's just a word that means "alien and powerful and old"

[scenic zinc]

It is. There are beings older and more powerful than the gods of realmspace

[hot marlin]

Yes. But it's not a thing in itself

Those things that are more powerful than the gods of realmspace are not related to each other

[grizzled lance]

The rules Ao put in place

No two gods in the same pantheon could have identical portfolios.
When two gods clashed, one of three results occurred:
One god faded from the Realms.
Both gods merged.
One (or both) god(s) altered their portfolio(s) sufficiently that both could remain in or join the Faerûnian pantheon.

[scenic zinc]

Nah he got corrupted by visions of the the far realms iirc

[atomic kayak]

No?

[grizzled lance]

Wdym no

[hot marlin]

What's the source?

[scenic zinc]

No idea where you came up with this

[atomic kayak]

Also again, you don't need to be a god of the FR pantheon to be a god

[grizzled lance]

2e

[hot marlin]

That is not a source.

[naive cedar]

not everything in 2e is still canon

[hot marlin]

A source is a specific thing.

[scenic zinc]

"I played it this way 25 years ago" isn't a source

[naive cedar]

tbf though tempus came about from all the different war gods fighting and merging together so maybe they're getting that mixed up?

[grizzled lance]

If you look through gods and there portfolios no two gods will have matching ones is what I mean

[fossil hollow]

im sorry, Tempus was born from an o- mix of war gods fighting

[stiff rock]

There are like a hundred books for each edition about gods lol

[atomic kayak]

Thats literally not true though.

[scenic zinc]

That's also not true

[grizzled lance]

Show me two that are matching in 5e

[atomic kayak]

So many gods share direct elements of overlap even outside of the general overlap of domains

[hot marlin]

No two gods are identical, yes. In the same way no two people are identical.

[grizzled lance]

Exactly

[naive cedar]

ig every god has a slightly different nuance in their portfolios. kelemver and myrkul are both death related gods but they go about it differently

[fossil hollow]

but they can still have almost identical portfolios

[atomic kayak]

So it has to be 5e specifically now? Weren't you just trying to cite 2e?

[hot marlin]

But there are multiple gods of war in the same way that there are multiple black-haired accountants

[naive cedar]

well yeah theres several war domain gods

[fossil hollow]

Bahamut, Torm, Tyr, Ares, Bane, Red Knight, Tempus, Kord

[hot marlin]

Hell, you can probably find ten black-haired accountants with the same eye colour, same prescription glasses and same hobbies. They're still distinct people

[scenic zinc]

And, even if true, you're pretty significantly moving the goalposts of your original argument.

[naive cedar]

they all approach it slightly differently though

[grizzled lance]

I don’t think it’s possible for there to be two “lords of bones” is what I meant

[lavish flame]

all these gods and we haven't even left the Faerunian pantheon!

[hot marlin]

What do you mean by "Lords of bones"?

[fossil hollow]

isnt that just an office in the Philippines

[fossil hollow]

me thought Ares wasnt present

[grizzled lance]

A god exactly like Mrykul

[naive cedar]

a cleric of tyr and a cleric of tempus will probably have different views on war for example. however, they still have overlapping portfolios

[hot marlin]

Erratum: Replace "ten" with "thousands"

[atomic kayak]

Thats not what your argument was

[grizzled lance]

That’s what I meant to say

[hot marlin]

Nobody is exactly like someone else, what do you mean?

[lavish flame]

oh yo I didn't even see Ares lmao

[atomic kayak]

You were not saying that multiple times repeatedly

[hot marlin]

Not even twins are exactly alike.

Let's try not to dogpile though. Let's give Dumb Blonde a chance to explain

[naive cedar]

i think i know what dumb blonde is trying to say but they're wording it a bit weirdly. they're saying that every god has a slightly different approach to everything in their portfolio

[fossil hollow]

damn, forgotten once again like his parents did

[hot marlin]

Well yeah, because they're distinct people.

[atomic kayak]

Just like you can have two human fighters, you can have two gods of death (and you do in fact, have more than two gods of death)

[hot marlin]

That's obvious. If you're not Myrkul, you're not going to do stuff exactly like Myrkul. Even if you were trying to perfectly emulate him

[fossil hollow]

stares at the snake gods

which one is which again, theres too many of them that apparently are thought to b each other

[naive cedar]

yeah like kelemvor and myrkul are both "death gods" very broadly, but they have completely different approaches to the subject

[hot marlin]

Now, there is a difference between being "a" god of death, and "the god in charge of judgment who rules the city of the dead"

[fossil hollow]

Thanatos vs Hades

[hot marlin]

The second obviously is a god of death. But strictly speaking, any other death god could try to take that spot on the throne of the city

[naive cedar]

myrkul is the god of death in general, and kelemvor is more like the god of the process OF death

[fossil hollow]

-# if they want the paperwork

[atomic kayak]

God of death vs god of the dead difference yes, but even still you do also just flat out have multiple gods of death (and of the dead)

[fossil hollow]

RQ isnt a god in FR right?

[atomic kayak]

correct

[hot marlin]

Not...Exactly. Myrkul is dead. Myrkul is currently trapped between death and life, unable to fully resurrect yet. His former portfolio and responsibilities all belong to Kelemvor

[atomic kayak]

Raven Queen is a goddess of death in the Dawn War Pantheon

[naive cedar]

im also probably wording it incorrectly lol you're right

and yeah, there are multiple other gods who are gods of death/the dead. their portfolios are slightyl different from each other however

[fossil hollow]

all i know is that his MtG card has a lot of recursion effects

[scenic zinc]

She is. But RQ from FR isn't the same as RQ from Exandria

[hot marlin]

She is mentioned in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes but I don't think she has ever been mentioned in any Forgotten Realms product

[atomic kayak]

(ToF is FR centric fwiw)

[hot marlin]

So it is possible that she is one of those gods that have never made contact with Realmspace, or been forbidden from doing so

[fossil hollow]

are there not any shadowfell stuff in the FR modules?

[grizzled lance]

I just remember where I read it turns out I was wrong but if you wanna check it out
Boyd on Pantheons of the Realms.

[atomic kayak]

in relation to the FR though, the RQ (as of 5e at least) has been referenced but also isn't explicitly a god

[hot marlin]

There is, but that does not mean the Raven Queen is part of it

[atomic kayak]

She's a being of the shadowfell

[fossil hollow]

fair nough... the domains of dread are varied

[hot marlin]

Yes, she's part of the Shadowfell, by "it", I meant "the Forgotten Realms"

[atomic kayak]

Domains of dread do not make up the entirity of the shadowfell. Plenty of the plane exists outside of them. Just like how there is plenty of feywild outside of the domains of delight

[grizzled lance]

I was right in it being 2nd edition

But the book was from 2002

[limber trail]

The funniest one I discovered in VRGtR was a dread domain that is just, a detective agency in a noir world

[fossil hollow]

ive always thought it was Cyre 1313

[hot marlin]

Just so you know: When someone asks for a source, they don't mean the edition, they mean the actual book. If you can also provide the page or chapter, that's a bonus.

[west basalt]

Sorry to be back again but does anyone know of any terrain tile bundles that will be usable for lost mines of phandelver campaign?

[naive cedar]

especially since theres so much content to one edition alone

[grizzled lance]

Chapter 1 or 2 page 85

[limber trail]

Nah, Vhage Agency

[grizzled lance]

Its one of the few books that actually mention Ao by name

[hot marlin]

Which book?

[fossil hollow]

lmao its a single room

[grizzled lance]

Faiths and Pantheons

[naive cedar]

dread domain thats just the pacer test thing from gym class

[fossil hollow]

NO

[hot marlin]

Don't go on a rant about how the creation of Ao was a bad idea, don't go on a rant about how everything related to the Time of Troubles is a betrayal of the themes of the setting, Incubus buddy control yourself

[fossil hollow]

"do it"

• palpatine voice

[feral fulcrum]

Rant Time Incoming?

[grizzled lance]

GRAHH luminous being

[limber trail]

it's very funny

[worn lagoon]

felt

[scenic zinc]

Since achieving divinity, the Raven Queen

I view that as it saying she's a god.

[grizzled lance]

I prefer the lady of pain

[hot marlin]

I'm controlling myself

[hearty marten]

So, I was thinking and realizzed something. Paladins are just Martial Warlocks

[naive cedar]

me when people mention everything in 4e

[fossil hollow]

do it

[atomic kayak]

Which book is that from?

[scenic zinc]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/mtof/elves#TheFortressofMemories

[grizzled lance]

It’s 2e-3e

[worn lagoon]

I dislike forgotten realms cosmology so much that it made me realize i enjoy media that takes place in the forgotten realms, not the setting itself

[lavish flame]

Admittedly they're gonna be few and far between. Lost Mine gives you maps to use for the places in its story, but the Terrain Tiles also give extra maps for stuff like random encounters.

[hot marlin]

Hmm... That leads to a question: Is there a nuance between "divine" and "god" or are those functionally synonyms in D&D?

[naive cedar]

i know....im saying that everything in 4e evokes the same visceral desire to rant within me

[atomic kayak]

There is nuance in the broad DnD scope yes

Please do not ask me to get that much more specific about it (especially not a setting specific level)

[grizzled lance]

Lady of pain isn’t even a god which is just a really cool concept to me

[fossil hollow]

do it /hj

[hearty marten]

Someone please tell me I'm wrong

[hot marlin]

Can one be divine without being a god, or a god without being divine?

[fossil hollow]

celestials

[worn lagoon]

warlocks are also melee fighters who can smite

[grizzled lance]

God is more of a status symbol

[atomic kayak]

Divinity without a god is very common.

In short, its the basis of Druids, Paladins, and many things from the upper planes

[naive cedar]

warlocks are just wizards that dont die in one (1) hit

[worn lagoon]

so if anything paladins are halfcaster divine magic warlocks

[west basalt]

If I was to play on a tv with figures what software would be best

[hearty marten]

Oh my god

[grizzled lance]

Dnd beyond please make a lady of pain patron

[lavish flame]

I think the 5e DMG even makes reference to divine powers without divinity. Warlock abilities are lumped into "Divine Abilities" but those typically don't involve a god. Additionally Druid abilities are commonly lumped into the Divine category, but they commonly don't need gods.

[hushed mason]

Except that paladins pre-date warlocks.

[fossil hollow]

the people who did got flayed

[grizzled lance]

How old is warlock?

[naive cedar]

warlock comes from 3.5 i believe

[grizzled lance]

O lady of pain please flay me

[hushed mason]

Complete Arcane, a 3.5e book.

[hot marlin]

By instinct, if there was to be a nuance, I think it should be something like this: All gods are divine, not all divines are gods. Anything with true immortality and a certain command over aspects of reality is divine. A god is a divine that has a specific function and purpose.

[lavish flame]

Warlock is a 3.5 invention, so 2003+

[fossil hollow]

no flaying for you, just erased

[grizzled lance]

No you get flayed first

[hearty marten]

Also Divine/Celestial Warlocks exist.

[limber trail]

mind flaying?

[grizzled lance]

“Those who try to worship the lady often find themselves without skin”

[hushed mason]

Technically, paladins and clerics don't need deities, either. They can access divine powers without them if they're devoted to a cause.

[fossil hollow]

nah, LoP flaying

[atomic kayak]

I had been recalling this line

Because she was by now a quasi-divine entity, her supernatural rage corrupted the ritual into a phenomenon that took on a terrible strength of its own.
and
Her pain and turmoil over the betrayal of her wizards, the destruction of her kingdom, and her failure at attaining godhood all contributed to her descent into an unquenchable sorrow
and
Because the Raven Queen has godlike power
A level of divinity, and very powerful for certain, but not exactly a god

[limber trail]

not unlike the mind flaying that Orlund Gralhund does?

[fossil hollow]

i dunno what to tell ya man, it was just weird

[limber trail]

womp womp

[atomic kayak]

Thats a fair enough delineation for the broader multiscope of dnd

[grizzled lance]

It’s either she removes your skin or she effectively cast maze on you minus being able to leave

[fossil hollow]

wonder how he was able to communicate with you telepatically

[limber trail]

i trust nobody in waterdeep

[fossil hollow]

how about Imos

[grizzled lance]

The lady is in Sigil

[limber trail]

so here's the issue: hokrun doesnt know that he communicates telepathically

[fossil hollow]

hehehehe

[grizzled lance]

I still wanna know why the grass hoper people can telepathy talk to anybody that knows at least 1 language

[limber trail]

hokrun and knome are doing different equations and arriving at the same conclusion of don't trust anyone

[grizzled lance]

Why can this grass hoper talk to a demon

[fossil hollow]

Thrikreen have always had psionic abilities as far as i know

[grizzled lance]

They have I just think it’s funny that my silly little bug person can talk to a celestial or fiend

[hearty marten]

Power Word Kill does not specify if the word is set and just says you utter a word. The rules have no set definition of what is and isn't a word. Therefore, you could hypothetically say UWU and kill an enemy.

[fossil hollow]

yeap

[scenic zinc]

Because the Raven Queen has godlike power

From later in that same book, it appears she's closer to being a quasi deity than a full god.

[fossil hollow]

dont make me make a cat girl lich

[halcyon forum]

or "moist"

[hearty marten]

Nooooooooooo

[fossil hollow]

loss

[naive cedar]

what about 67

[grizzled lance]

Isn’t she one of the most common patrons

[fossil hollow]

... is 67 one word or two

[naive cedar]

idk

[hearty marten]

Depends

[grizzled lance]

67

[scenic zinc]

You don't need to be a god to be a patron

[naive cedar]

what is your power word kill? mine is "irregardless"

[grizzled lance]

Takes 12d12 psychic damage

[limber trail]

I've interpreted that the word is literally what is in the title. To cast power word kill, you simply say, "Kill."

[fossil hollow]

mine is just "Fall"

[hushed mason]

"literally"

[halcyon forum]

in fact, gods are rarely patrons

[hearty marten]

Sixty-seven can be treated as one word but, six seven is two words

[hushed mason]

When used figuratively.

[fossil hollow]

cant wait to see Vestige patron see print

[hot marlin]

Did you get Clancy Brown to voice it?

[grizzled lance]

I meant in general cause she made the first hexblades

[naive cedar]

thats literally so annoying

[fossil hollow]

no...

[hearty marten]

I had someone who would just say no

[grizzled lance]

That’s why hexblade is a class for the most part

[hot marlin]

Oh, sorry, Ron Perlman. I confused the two

[west basalt]

Has anyone used connectable dungeon tiles? If so which are the best to buy when buying in bulk?

[grizzled lance]

There was SUPPOSE to be a raven Queen patron but the UA book never came out

Dude I really wish fiend got broken up into the arch devil things

I wanna worship lady Zariel of Avernus

[tardy bronze]

I think the mods misunderstood me

[uncut zenith]

I mean, nothing about Fiend Warlock is stopping you from doing so

[feral fulcrum]

You talking about Fiend Warlock? Who your Patron is is up to you and the DM to decide, nothing stops you from being bound to Zariel.

[hot marlin]

Here, to have a warlock with a raven queen patron pick any of the following patron:
Undead, Undying, Hexblade, Fiend.

[grizzled lance]

Yeah but you would have gotten unique abilities custom to said arch devil

[fossil hollow]

i know a company called warlock has that type of tiles

[hot marlin]

Do you know how many archfiends are in that game? That would be insane

[fossil hollow]

very expensive though

[fossil hollow]

i think i already get my fill for CoA

[grizzled lance]

7

[uncut zenith]

That wouldn’t work considering there are countless potential archfiends to serve based on setting. It also doesn’t account for original/homebrew patrons.

[hot marlin]

... What?

[grizzled lance]

At least the book included

[hearty marten]

I make my own stuff

[naive cedar]

what book?

[grizzled lance]

It’s UA

Never got to see the light of day

[hot marlin]

There are hundreds of demon lords mentioned in the history of D&D. Dozens of archdevils. And probably half a dozen archfiends from each of the other groups of fiends

[fossil hollow]

So many demonlords rise and die every second

[grizzled lance]

It’s the arch devils that own a layer of hell like zariel and dispater

[feral fulcrum]

There's at least Nine Archdevils, and many more Archdevil Adjacent Fiends.

[hot marlin]

A great tragedy, but the beauty of the abyss lies in its renewal, not in its maintenance.

[uncut zenith]

The archdevils you’re thinking of are technically exclusive to the Forgotten Realms’s version of the Nine Hells. The Fiend patron also takes into account demon princes, which there are literally infinite of, yugoloths, and fiends that don’t fall into either of the three subtypes.

[fossil hollow]

you are not escaping the fiend allegations, fiend

[hot marlin]

No, that's a duke. All dukes are archdevils, not all archdevils are dukes. All archdevils are archfiends, not all archfiends are archdevils.

[hearty marten]

I'm actually planning a cedar dice tray right now.

[scenic zinc]

What's stopping you

[fair summit]

"Then Perish."

[grizzled lance]

Lemme find what book it was

[hot marlin]

Although why someone would worship Zariel, I don't know. Like, what do you get out of it?

[fossil hollow]

once per day gauranteed crit

[hot marlin]

She's a newcomer to the nine hells, unlikely to survive more than a few more centuries. She'll never have the political power of the other more entrenched dukes...

Worse, she was not born a devil. Which naturally makes her inferior to trueborn fiends.

[scenic zinc]

Ask ||popular module name here||

[fossil hollow]

shes not there for the politics though, shes there to clear Avernus of the demon scourge

[hot marlin]

Which is doomed to failure

[uncut zenith]

You’re thinking of Mordenkainen’s Tome of Foes likely. But again, having features exclusive to specific archfiends in the Fiendlock would be pretty much impossible given the number of archfiends. Plus, as mentioned, it wouldn’t account for original/homebrewed archfiends that a DM might create for their campaign.

[fossil hollow]

hey, im not one to judge a woman's hobbies

[naive cedar]

shame bc she has lots of aura

[scenic zinc]

Asmodeus pretty actively doesn't want to end the blood war

[naive cedar]

let a girl be a girlboss and a girlfailure 😤

[hot marlin]

Yes, that's why he did not surrender, even though he should

But hey, one day... One day Asmodeus will lay down his arms in front of Graz'zt and beg for mercy.

[grizzled lance]

OH IM STUPID

It was tielfings not warlocks

[hot marlin]

It will be glorious.

[grizzled lance]

It was mordenkains tomb of foes

[halcyon forum]

Her reason for falling and fighting in the bloodwar are sort of noble in their own way. I think it would be easy to be convinced by the same rethoric

[hot marlin]

The Nine Hells will be ravaged and pillaged. Devils slaughtered left and right, their towers crushed to ashes, their fires quenched. The waters of the Abyss will wash it all away and Lord Dagon will devour the drowning devils...

[grizzled lance]

Each tielfing had there own Devil they were tied to by blood like example

Bloodline of Dispater

[uncut zenith]

Yeah, the MToF alt tieflings are also descended specifically from FR archdevils. That’s why the new 2024 tieflings can choose between an infernal, abyssal, or chthonic lineage, to account for the fact that there are many other archfiends than just the archdevils and demon princes named in FR

[hot marlin]

Uh, sorry, I phased out for a moment.

[grizzled lance]

Idk why I was thinking of warlocks

[uncut zenith]

Tieflings and warlocks are a pretty common combo

[grizzled lance]

Probably

[hot marlin]

But seriously, I imagine worship as being two things: Transactional and community-building. You worship a given being because it is part of the rituals that bind your community together and because that being gives you something in return.

[limber trail]

probably one of the most common class/species combos

[naive cedar]

someone told me that tiefling/rogue is common. is that true?

[grizzled lance]

I thought human fighter was the most common

[scenic zinc]

Tieflings not having to be tied to a specific archdevil is good in my opinion... but I don't think they should be a direct descendant of a fiend either.

[grizzled lance]

Oh no they shouldn’t be

I was just thinking it was warlocks for whatever reason

[round spruce]

Hi . Our Adventurers League games next week have a waitlist of 11 . I’m DMing for first time in 40 years tomorrow to ensure more people get to play . I stumbled across “If you have more than five players it’s ok for two players to use the same character…” on page 3 in my starter set rules (don’t know why discord won’t let me append a photo) regarding two people playing one character . I know it’s not ideal but might be a temporary fix to help players get a game while waiting for more DMs to train up and volunteer or is it limited to the starter set ?

[undone rain]

Ehhh their more seen as basic rather then common

[hot marlin]

Especially considering that the multiverse's biggest tiefling factory is Graz'zt's bedroom

[grizzled lance]

How are tielfing’s made..?

[uncut zenith]

Agreed. I like the idea that they can just kinda pop up from time to time for other reasons, like a parent made a pact with a fiend or their family was located in a location that mysteriously had a lot of energy from the Lower Planes

[grizzled lance]

Never really thought about it till now

[hot marlin]

Two ways: Either at least one of your grandparents or more removed ancestors was a fiend, or you or your bloodline were changed by exposure to fiendish magic

[halcyon forum]

I do like the option to have tieflings more directly related to individual archdevils

[grizzled lance]

Interesting

[scenic zinc]

Isn't cthonic meant to be more primordial based?

[halcyon forum]

MToF is my favorite 5e book btw

[scenic zinc]

Rather than fiend?

[undone rain]

So 2 tieflings can have a tiefling as a kid but 1 tiefling and human cant get a tiefling?

[lavish flame]

I always assumed Chthonic was just "Neutral Evil Fiend"

[scenic zinc]

They can.

[undone rain]

Orrrr?

[undone rain]

Thought so

[naive cedar]

tiefling ancestry can also be dormant in a bloodline for a while and pop up again i believe

[scenic zinc]

But let's not get into blood quantum stuff

[lavish flame]

Be that Yugoloths or Demodands or whatever

[halcyon forum]

being a tiefling is not genetic, its magic

[uncut zenith]

They’re the ones more associated with Neutral Evil. Yugoloths, night hags, that kind of thing.

[naive cedar]

or i might be mixing it up with aasimar

[grizzled lance]

Because if a human and a field couple that’s just a cambion if I remember correctly

[scenic zinc]

Seeing as magic is a natural force in dnd, what's the difference?

[halcyon forum]

just that it doesnt follow the rules one might expect from genetics

no dominant or recessive tiefling genes

[uncut zenith]

In 2014, yes. As of 2024, cambions aren’t descended from fiends, they’re humanoids who were corrupted by the Lower Planes and became fiends.

[hot marlin]

They can. It's just not guaranteed.

[grizzled lance]

Oh that’s way cooler

[hot marlin]

Nothing is guaranteed with those sorts of hybrid breedings in D&D.

Sometimes a half-elf and a human will have twins. One will be a human, the other a half-elf.

[undone rain]

So either human kid or tiefling kid

[grizzled lance]

My dad was a horse headed centaur and my mom was a Minotaur

[tight sky]

I can't use DnD Beyond anymore I'm actually stressing

[hot marlin]

While the meme is funny, I am almost certain that minotaurs and centaurs would not be able to have children at all

[grizzled lance]

Me 🐴

[scenic zinc]

-# the exact kind of discussion line we should be avoiding imo, as it's gunna lead to weird and bad takes aplenty

[naive cedar]

im just a tressym so im staying out of this

[undone rain]

Gales cat

[scenic zinc]

I'm not a mod. Just my opinion.

[tropic plank]

Was your mother the pigeon

[hot marlin]

I'm not sure what sort of bad takes would arise.

[naive cedar]

yeah

[lavish flame]

Cmon dawg you know

[naive cedar]

im not a CAT. im a TRESSYM.

[hot marlin]

I'm not sure I know actually

[grizzled lance]

I’m a horse

[halcyon forum]

is that the horse from horsin' around?

[undone rain]

Pigeon cat

[naive cedar]

a tressym, a horse, an incubus, and a dragon's tooth walk into a pub...

[hot marlin]

A friend told me about a game where his character once ate demon meat. Twelve sessions later, that character's son was born a tiefling. Good idea from the DM. Showing that the consequences still exist

[naive cedar]

ill toss fireball at u

[uncut zenith]

It’s a conversation that often leads to discussion regarding racial/blood purity and it gets bad quick around here

[tight sky]

Man, I need to remake all my character sheets

[grizzled lance]

Weren’t you guys considered a beast at one point in storm kings thunder

[tropic plank]

Average DnD game start

[scenic zinc]

As mentioned before, weird blood quantum type of discussions and worse.

Fantasy racism isn't fun.

[hot marlin]

Eh, fantasy racism can be fun! You get to beat up the racists

[tight sky]

Nothic!?

[limber trail]

but when will they address.....

[hot marlin]

What's more fun than killing racists?

[naive cedar]

dont forget the edgy orphan chaotic neutral tiefling rogue and the hexbardceror

[halcyon forum]

its the whole sales pitch of the Wolfenstein games

[tropic plank]

Racists not existing

[undone rain]

Considering my party has a mindflayer, dragonborn and a changeling you aint far off

[grizzled lance]

Answer me tressym

[limber trail]

not everyone wants racism to be a part of their fantasy adventure, which is valid

[tropic plank]

Cats can’t talk

[naive cedar]

answer you what, horse?

[grizzled lance]

Neither can horses

[naive cedar]

hence why im not a cat. im a tressym.

[grizzled lance]

Are you a beast

[scenic zinc]

Tressyms aren't cats. They only (mostly) look like cats.

[naive cedar]

apparently tressyms are monstrosities

[halcyon forum]

Ive seen plenty of talking horses on TV

[tropic plank]

I’m single handedly increasing the amount of Changelings in dnd games

[uncut zenith]

Fantasy racism as a narrative force that needs to be fought can be fun. Fantasy racism in the sense of players using the game to play out their racist fantasies is not. The blood quantum discussion tends to lean more on the latter situation than the former.

[grizzled lance]

That’s not fair

[naive cedar]

could you actually play a tressym in a dnd game?

[hot marlin]

Well yeah, but it's a bit sad, because there are less people you can beat up guilt-free

[halcyon forum]

sidekick rules

[limber trail]

it's also a real big "can be", not "always is". Tons of folks just aren't gonna have fun with it in their games, even if they get to later beat the racists up

[scenic zinc]

Sure. Reflavor a tabaxi.

[tropic plank]

You can play anything if you try hard enough

[grizzled lance]

I remember playing BG3 on the my second play through I decided to be a drow and the tielfing twins Instantly said “weapons out”

[scenic zinc]

And get boots of flying or whatever

[grizzled lance]

How can I be the mimic

[naive cedar]

tbf you can intimidate them into going away

[tropic plank]

Just play a mimic pretending to be a human
Failing that, play changeling

[scenic zinc]

How can I be the mimic

[grizzled lance]

No I said THE mimic

[scenic zinc]

No I said THE mimic

[tropic plank]

Like the fredbear character

[naive cedar]

No I said THE mimic

[undone rain]

Our dragonborn ate his boots and grew wings from it

[grizzled lance]

Five knights a Freddy’s

[tropic plank]

Play an automaton that keeps knitting bad disguises like a mimikyu

[tight sky]

Imma just stop complaining, anyways :3

[grizzled lance]

THE MIMIC

[naive cedar]

mimicyu

[undone rain]

My name is edwin, i made the mimic

[tropic plank]

Speaking of boots could I wear half a pair of magic boots and a second boot from a different pair and get a random magical effect

[scenic zinc]

RAW? No

[grizzled lance]

It actually goes over this as an example lmao

[tropic plank]

Like mixing potions
I wonder what one winged boot and one boot of speed would make

[grizzled lance]

That I don’t know

[scenic zinc]

If your dm allows it? Sure I guess.

[lavish flame]

mixing potions also has its own rules (see: Potion Miscibility)

[grizzled lance]

That’s cool

[lavish flame]

Long story short, when mixing 2 potions (this includes mixing them in your stomach), you roll a d100 and see what new effect occurs in addition to both potion effects.

[grizzled lance]

Interesting

[hushed mason]

Are body item slots not a thing in 5e? For me, that would be like trying to put a magic ring on every finger. "Feet" is one body item slot.

[grizzled lance]

You explode instantly (3rd level fire ball)

[lavish flame]

not really, there is a soft system for that

[undone rain]

Our bard: Whats the point of armor if your not gonna get hit
Also the bard: Has gotten to 0 hp twice

[grizzled lance]

You can only attune to so many times

[limber trail]

Here's what the PHB has to say about it:

"Multiple Items of the Same Kind. You can’t wear more than one of certain magic items. You can’t normally wear more than one pair of footwear, one pair of gloves or gauntlets, one pair of bracers, one suit of armor, one item of headwear, or one cloak. The DM might make exceptions."

[feral fulcrum]

There's no hard restrictions on that. It really just comes down to what makes sense. Like you can't two sets of armor at once, but you could wear a magical cloak over a set of magic armor.

[hushed mason]

Those would be different body slots - shoulders for the cloak, torso for the armor.

[scenic zinc]

Only twice? That's rookie numbers

[lavish flame]

You can't wear benefit from 2 of the same magic item, and you can only wear 1 pair of boots/footwear, 1 pair of gloves/handware, and only 2 rings. The rest of it is genuinely "does your physiology allow for that? is that reasonable?"

[grizzled lance]

I’m so glad totem warrior got nerfed

[lavish flame]

definitely needed

[grizzled lance]

Mainly bear

You know why

[feral fulcrum]

They adressed the bear in the room.

[lavish flame]

Totem: Bear at level 3 was oppresively potent. For 5 years I didn't see a single barbarian choose any other subclass

and even with the Choices subclass, they all made the same choice at level 3

[grizzled lance]

Can you imagine having to deal with that plus it’s other buffs in 2024 😭

Like being able to stay in rage for 10 minutes instead of 1

[limber trail]

But when will they address...

[grizzled lance]

I still think it’s strange they decided to buff sorcerer

[limber trail]

Why so?

[feral fulcrum]

Sorceror could use some love. It's only unique thing is limited Metmagic, otherwise it was just Wizard, But Worse.

[grizzled lance]

Idk I won’t say they had everything in the world but getting advantage on all spell cast is rough in a good way I mean

[uncut zenith]

Yeah, it was too good an option not to pick

[grizzled lance]

I mean zealot was also decent only issue is to get use out of there level 3 ability you needed a level 5 cleric or Druid

[harsh hollow]

I can imagine enemies with Elemental Adept started also being too good of an option not to pick in some cases to cope. x3

[feral fulcrum]

There was only one truly bad Barbarian subclass, and it was Battlerager. There must have been a gas leak in the offices when they were designing that.

[grizzled lance]

LOL

I mean berserker was ehh in 2014 main issue was exhaustion was a little more oppressive

[feral fulcrum]

Yeah but Beserker had upsides, and was reasonably sane design.

[grizzled lance]

True

[feral fulcrum]

Battlerager was "Here, focus on a 1d4 'Unique' Item, and grapple we guess. You'll never not suck really. That's the subclass. Also only Dwarfs."

[uncut zenith]

Battle Rager was also one of the earliest subclasses to release after the PHB, so at least they’ve learned to not build an entire subclass around a single piece of non-magical equipment

[worn lagoon]

it was needed. i could not honestly defend picking sorcerer over wizard.

[grizzled lance]

Divine soul?

[feral fulcrum]

It was also locked to Dwarves. Which was just the cherry on top of the Stupid Pie

[harsh hollow]

Wild Magic was also pretty popular, not always for the right reasons though.

[uncut zenith]

Same with Bladesinger and elves. Thankfully Bladesinger came back without the species restriction.

[worn lagoon]

'none of us want to play a cleric, so please screw over your spell choices and be a temu cleric mr. sorcerer'

[marble lion]

I really liked playing berserker with the change that the berserker rage allowed a BA attack along with it, so you dont have to wait until turn 3 to finally use your subclass feature that you pay for in exhaustion

[grizzled lance]

Yea

[worn lagoon]

in this case play a cleric over a divine soul

[grizzled lance]

Why can’t wizard have healing spells

[feral fulcrum]

They do have healing spells

[fickle heart]

Alas, power creep was very unfriendly to Battle Rager.

[grizzled lance]

Where?

[worn lagoon]

so you can actually afford space for your utility spells instead of choosing between extremely important ones for your capacity of five

[worn lagoon]

mainly self-healing ones like vampiric touch

[grizzled lance]

I mean restoring hp to others not self

[feral fulcrum]

Vampiric Touch Locked to themself , Wither and Bloom, and I think at least one other

[uncut zenith]

They have minimal healing spells because they already have an extensive spell list that makes good at filling a lot of other roles. Giving them extensive healing would just make them to good at every role lol

[uncut zenith]

Arcane Vigor is a new one

[worn lagoon]

basically forced to have an acolyte background for that one

[grizzled lance]

Make it bigger give em the cleric spell list as well

[worn lagoon]

use wish to cast heal at 8th level fr

[harsh hollow]

I think it's mainly because they're meant to have the heavy hitting stuff so clerics have something to do.

[twilit summit]

Guys, where do I get that form to fill for the "Looking for dm" channel?

[worn lagoon]

wizards are the black mages of dnd if black mages did everything but healing

[grizzled lance]

I mean clerics have one of them most oppressive spells in the game via hallow

[feral fulcrum]

Use Wish to cast Tsunami and no longer have a combat encounter.

[fickle heart]

The origins of the Wizard fantasy doesn't really include healing in their toolkit, whereas the origin of the "Priest" fantasy has a pretty heavy focus on healing.

[grizzled lance]

Just giving someone vulnerability to any physical damage type is insane

[glass granite]

It’s any damage type no?

[grizzled lance]

Yeah

[glass granite]

Not just physical

[fickle heart]

Alas, it costs 1,000GP and it takes 24 hours to cast.

[copper crane]

hey guys is theera ny place i can find players quicker than the post that gets lost i nthe archives after exactly 3 minutes?

[grizzled lance]

2024 chanced that

[limber trail]

it also takes 24 hours to cast

[feral fulcrum]

ANy Energy damage type. B/P/S isn't possible sadly.

[grizzled lance]

2024 changed that too

[limber trail]

it did not, I have the 2024 PHB up on hallow

[feral fulcrum]

At least in 2014.

[fickle heart]

(That's also the 2024 version.)

[loud tendon]

#find-a-game has the instructions. You type the command /looking-for in any channel you can type in on this server and it will automatically prompt options like dm.

Select that. Hit enter and the template will load

[grizzled lance]

I meant if cleric cast it in a certain way

[uncut zenith]

Plus, like I said, it would just give wizards another thing they’re good at. And I don’t really think that’s very good design. It’s the Mystic issue all over again.

[glass granite]

Only way you can do it in 2024 is if you use Divine Intervention

[fickle heart]

Oh, definitely. I just think it's worth calling out the origins of stuff (when I know it) because D&D is hugely motivated by its own legacy.

[grizzled lance]

Yeah that

[limber trail]

I will agree that divine intervention does make it easier to get off

[grizzled lance]

And it hallow got changed to say “any damage type”

[feral fulcrum]

Dungeons And Trademarked Beholders.

Dungeon of the Litigious Lawyers.

[grizzled lance]

Vulnerability. Creatures of any types you choose have Vulnerability to one damage type of your choice while in the area.

Instead of just “elements”

[limber trail]

This is mainly a product of my dislike of 2024 divine intervention more than it is the hallow spell

[grizzled lance]

Btw if the silence property of it is used does that make creatures inside immune to thunder damage or no

[feral fulcrum]

Given the spell Silence does it, I don't see why the effect also wouldn't

[grizzled lance]

That’s why I’m asking

[feral fulcrum]

Since it completly shuts down all sound, like the spell.

[limber trail]

the reason is that the effect doesn't say it does

things do what they say

[grizzled lance]

That’s why I ask

[limber trail]

If hallow doesn't say it grants immunity to thunder damage, I would assume it doesn't grant immunity to thunder damage

[feral fulcrum]

Silent THunderclap magically blowing out your ear drums with no sound. Makes Much Sense

[grizzled lance]

But thunder is just a really really loud noise

[feral fulcrum]

While also simultaneously doing nothing in Silence which does the same effect.

[grizzled lance]

Something something vibrations?

[feral fulcrum]

SOmething SOmething That's How Sound Works And No Sound.

[grizzled lance]

Idk man

[limber trail]

it doesn't make the same effect - silence specifically makes creatures immune to thunder damage and gives the deafened condition. The fact that hallow doesn't specify that, means that it doesn't get it. Things do what they say

[feral fulcrum]

Shrugs

You're free to interpret in a manner I deem to be very silly.

[grizzled lance]

But it functions the exact same as the silence spell through

Minus the immunity and such

[limber trail]

It doesn't. The silence spell says it grants immunity to thundere damage, which the hallow spell doesn't. If the thunder damage was an implicit effect, silence wouldn't mention it

[feral fulcrum]

Also by your strict intepreation. Verbal Compenents would work in Hallow's SIlence.

[harsh hollow]

I think the point is that physics interpretations don't change the text of the rules. A lot of spells that should set things on fire don't if they don't say they do.

[limber trail]

I would also say that yes

That's what is in the text of each spell

[grizzled lance]

For the duration, no sound can be created within or pass through a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on a point you choose within range.

Silence. No sound can emanate from within the area, and no sound can reach into it.

[limber trail]

Verbal Component's don't work in the silence spell because the silence spell says verbal components don't work there. The fact that the hallow spell doesn't mention them means that it doesn't effect them

[harsh hollow]

It would only block Thunder damage if it said it mimicked the effect of the Silence spell, which says it does that.

[grizzled lance]

The Hallow spell creates a 40-foot radius area. If the chosen effect of the Hallow is to create a Silenced area (similar to the Silence spell), then no spells with verbal components can be cast.

If you can’t speak no verbal components

[glass granite]

Does it say it mimics that?

[harsh hollow]

It doesn't, no.

[glass granite]

Ty

[harsh hollow]

That's the point being made. The effect itself is called Silence but it doesn't say it mimics the spell so it doesn't do everything the spell does. Only what it specifies it does.

[grizzled lance]

🤔

[limber trail]

That's not in the text of the silence spell. That's your homebrew interpretation of an additional effect of the rules, which is a fine homebrew interpretation and I can't stop you from having that interpretation, but taking the literal wording of the spell, that's not what it does

[grizzled lance]

That’s like saying because I’m in a vacuum I can still spell cast because it doesn’t exactly say that sound can’t travel

[harsh hollow]

RAW that is how it would work. Your interpretation of how physics should work doesn't change the rules text.

I get why you'd interpret things the way you're saying, but the discussion as far as I could tell is how it works RAW.

[dark pewter]

I wouldn't rule that you can't use verbal components in Hallow. Nothing in the spell says it's silent in the circle, just that sound can't emanate from within

[harsh hollow]

Things do what they say they do, no more no less. Anything else is interpretation.

[dark pewter]

If it was properly silent within the spell's radius, I'd rule you can't use verbal. But that would also make Hallow a pretty bad spell imo, at least in '24 rules

[grizzled lance]

I’m making you fight a dragon sea Turtle underwater

[harsh hollow]

Like I said earlier, there's a lot of spells that should set things on fire. There are spells that specify they do this though, so any that don't say this don't do that RAW.

[glass granite]

Yeah double checking the spelling description (tbh I forgot hallow had a silence option) there’s nothing saying you can’t speak inside

Just that no sound can pass in or out of the field

[twilit summit]

Thanks

[grizzled lance]

One rule I think is very funny raw but that every one ignores is that if you don’t have at least a 13 in dex you have disadvantage on using ranged weapons

[glass granite]

heavy ranged weapons

Specifically heavy crossbows

[grizzled lance]

It just says ranged weapons 2014

[glass granite]

Oh I was speaking for 2024

Where’s that rule? Sounds silly, though would likely never come up.

[grizzled lance]

Players hand book

[harsh hollow]

Yeah, if that is a rule I think it'd be mostly skirted around by people wanted to use ranged building higher Dex than that. x3

[grizzled lance]

Same thing with the heavy prop was so bad for small martials

Since it was just auto disadvantage raw

[frozen heron]

I’m making a monk character rn who’s stats are crazy high EXCEPT for his charisma, basically he’s a super nervous kid and terrible with people but can easily take down most creatures

[limber trail]

where in the PHB is it? I've had a very quick look and can't see it in the two immediately obvious places where it'd be

[harsh hollow]

Where in the 2014 PHB does it say this by the way?

[glass granite]

Yeah that’s one of the changes I liked in 2024

[grizzled lance]

Might be in the dmg

[limber trail]

i would be shocked if it was in the dmg

[harsh hollow]

Why would that be in the DMB but not the PHB?

[grizzled lance]

Great ready for a shock

[harsh hollow]

That's player facing information?

[grizzled lance]

Creatures also have ability scores

[fossil hollow]

... what are you saying now mate

[limber trail]

yeah but this is a core rule for players. the DMG has rules on running adventures, not on how the game works

[harsh hollow]

If it's a rule for them that doesn't nessecarily mean it applies to players.

[grizzled lance]

I never said it did

[fossil hollow]

If its a monster rule to, wouldnt it be in

THE MONSTER MANUAL?

[harsh hollow]

"You" in the conversation earlier very much gave the impression you were talking about players.

Also why would they build a monster stat block broken on purpose.

[grizzled lance]

Pretty sure it was to prevent certain humanoid monsters from just picking up and using a weapon

[dark pewter]

All I see in '14 is the same as '24, only heavy weapons provide disadvantage with a score lower than 13

[fossil hollow]

what

[glass granite]

I don’t own the 2014 DMG, so I can’t help here

[dark pewter]

Also, just because a monster can grab a weapon, doesn't mean they're proficient or even trained with it

[grizzled lance]

Btw where does 2024 take place

[dark pewter]

The '24 ruleset is designed to be setting-agnostic, but does use Greyhawk for some examples of play

[grizzled lance]

Main reason I ask is cause I look at the new bandit caption and that dude just has a straight up handgun was it..?

[livid brook]

ok i must be calculating something wrong this feels like way too much damage for my sub optimal archer

[drifting fjord]

Like typical WotC, they say one game world, and then don’t publish anything for it. All publications so far have supported the Forgotten Realms or Eberron.

[grizzled lance]

Pistol

[drifting fjord]

Forgotten realms seems to support firearms now

[loud tendon]

I can see it in the 2024 phb but only for heavy weapons.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/phb-2024/equipment#Weapons

Heavy
You have Disadvantage on attack rolls with a Heavy weapon if it’s a Melee weapon and your Strength score isn’t at least 13 or if it’s a Ranged weapon and your Dexterity score isn’t at least 13.

[dark pewter]

Yeah, firearms have been an optional weapon class since 5e released

[grizzled lance]

That’s what I was thinking about

[dark pewter]

Some of the new versions of monsters gets them, which I think is interesting for player engagement

[grizzled lance]

It’s nice to seem humanoid creatures using them now

[worn lagoon]

That's mildly upsetting from a greatsword bladelock perspective. Guess I'll have to roll good.

[drifting fjord]

But the 2024 monster manual includes multiple entries that use them

[dark pewter]

Yes, I was saying that the guns aren't new, but the greater use of them is

[harsh hollow]

To be fair I think straight up laser guns have been there for a while.

[grizzled lance]

I still think it’s a little silly that the pistol from the bandit caption does a little less damage then a musket

But then again monster stats so

Not to mention that the musket has the loading property

[livid brook]

65 dmg turn one is stupid

[drifting fjord]

I find it weird to have them in the game with zero feat support

[grizzled lance]

I mean gunner

[drifting fjord]

I would have rather had that space used for something else and a splat book with firearms and a gunslinger class introduced

[grizzled lance]

But that’s 3rd

[glass granite]

Tasha’s isn’t third party

[grizzled lance]

Wait gunner is Tasha?

[glass granite]

I think so

[dark pewter]

If I recall right, firearms are still considered ranged weapons mechanically, so ranged feats should still apply to guns

[grizzled lance]

I thought it was crit roll

[fossil hollow]

...

[dark pewter]

And yea, Gunner is from TCoE

[grizzled lance]

Well I’ll be so gunner I guess but that’s about it

[drifting fjord]

Ranged feats all call out bows and crossbows soecifically

[glass granite]

Sharpshooter doesn’t iirc

[grizzled lance]

Yeah crossbow expert shout out well crossbows

[dark pewter]

Correct, at least in '24

[grizzled lance]

I just realized

[dark pewter]

Oh yeah, neither version of the feat calls a specific weapon

[grizzled lance]

Gunner only says the e loading property of firearms

Not the reloading property

[glass granite]

They’re the same thing

If you can ignore the Loading property of a weapon you don’t need to reload it

[grizzled lance]

They literally aren’t

Loading means you can fire one shot then you have to reload

[drifting fjord]

As I’ve said for years, if you want firearms to be featured prominently in your game, there are far better rules systems than dnd to accomplish that.

[dark pewter]

Does 5e have a specific reload mechanic beyond loading? I don't recall any

[grizzled lance]

Reloading means you can fire example 6 shots(not preset) before you have to reload

Or laser pistol needs to fire 30 shots before needing to reload

[lavish flame]

Reload is a property for modern and futuristic Firearms

[glass granite]

Oh, didn’t know of this

[dark pewter]

Fully agreed. There is, however, something special about seeing the light in a player's eyes when you give their rogue a gun

[glass granite]

Well that’s likely why i don’t know it

[grizzled lance]

Guns are just cool in there own right

[dark pewter]

Ah, that's why. It's been a minute since I've looked at modern weapons

[lavish flame]

Reload is distinct from Loading just because you can get multiple shots in before having to take time to reload

[grizzled lance]

Basically

[glass granite]

I was incorrect, thank you for the lesson

[grizzled lance]

Gunner was made for black powder weapons

[drifting fjord]

Ultimately firearms should ignore armor. Pathfinder used them to target touch AC (dex only) and at least one edition allowed for exploding dice (when you rolled an 8 on a d8 for example, you can keep rolling as long as you keep rolling 8s). Pathfinder gave them x4 crits instead of exploding dice.

In 5e, they are just meh. Which I’m fine with because I don’t want them in my game, but then I question why even include them?

[grizzled lance]

I own a musket for home defense”

[grizzled lance]

The annoying thing about that is does it also ignore natural armor or

[drifting fjord]

If it didn’t, barkskin would finally have a use in 5e! Lol

[minor cargo]

In our homegame, guns are generally inaccessible, expensive, hard to maintain, and generally in accurate (explaining the middling damage). They are almost purely for aura.

[grizzled lance]

True

[grizzled lance]

I mean the base guns are no better then cross bows only one being musket doing 1d12

[limber trail]

if you wanna kick up the power level of guns in your setting, using modern firearms instead of typical weapons is a good approach. You can pretty easily substitute muskets for hunting rifles and pistols for revolvers, which makes them a bit meaner.

[minor cargo]

That said, I use a homebrew "gunblade" for an NPC in our homegame. Is it effective in combat? Not really... But is it super cool? Arguably also no.

[drifting fjord]

They could have distinguished the musket by saying firing from prone gave you advantage or something

[grizzled lance]

That’s actually very interesting

[drifting fjord]

The old blunderbuss was also interesting in that it fired shrapnel in a cone allowing for some sort of a aoe effect. That could have been fun too

Similar to cleave or graze for a weapon property

[hot marlin]

By that standard, should shocking grasp, and other spells with an attack roll, also ignore armor?

[drifting fjord]

They gave bonuses in other editions yes.

[drifting fjord]

In 3rd and 3.5 they targeted touch AC, which ignored armor

I’m not saying one was superior to the other and I totally get why they got rid of that complexity too.

[hot marlin]

So essentially, back to the system where you had your "normal" AC, your touch AC, your flat-footed AC.

[drifting fjord]

I mean, I’m against monsters having saving throws too. I think players should roll a die to “hit” with their fireball (essentially rolling a spell attack and comparing it to their saving throw bonus +10). It frees up the dm who is busy enough and creates player agency.

But even as a gm I don’t use that house rule, I just opine for it because I’m managing enough as it is.

[hot marlin]

I'm not sure why that would be necessary. Rolling the saves of the people in the area doesn't take much time, and that changes nothing on player agency

[stark maple]

i mean keeping track off flat foot touch and reg ac was torture sometimes

[drifting fjord]

If a player searches, they roll. If a player casts a spell, they roll. That’s player agency. If they search and the dm rolls or if they cast a spell and the dm rolls, that is not player agency.

[still plover]

Sounds like a viable option.

[hot marlin]

Player agency is the ability to influence the game through your decision. Whether the player or the DM is the one to roll changes nothing if it is the player's decision that caused the roll

I could have all the agency in the world and play a game where I roll no dice and where it is instead always the DM that has to roll dice as a result of my decisions.

[umbral girder]

Idea

[drifting fjord]

This was a huge discussion when 2014 released. It was decided that dms rolling for players is not player agency at least at that time. Thus “passive” rolls were born.

[hot marlin]

But I suppose on a more aesthetic and illusory level, maybe you could scam people into believing they have more agency because they are the one throwing the dice. But it's a scam.

[umbral girder]

What word would you use for Monoclass parties of certain classes?
For example we got "A Circle of Druids" or "A conclave of Rangers" or "A Band of Bards".
What are ideas you guys got?

[feral fulcrum]

A feast of fighters

[stark maple]

i already spoke to discord about it i cant just change it over night

[umbral girder]

Dragon moment

[drifting fjord]

Oh I agree, as I was on the side of dms making at least some rolls, but ultimately the writers wanted it the current way. And then my argument was why not have monsters not roll saves too? Just go all the way if you will.

[umbral girder]

Maybe a group of Rogues is a Gang

[still plover]

Say, what's your favourite class and why?

[hot marlin]

Rather than a "band", I'd go with a college of bards. For fighters, a company. For paladins, a siblinghood. For barbarian, a band. For clerics, a mission. For monks, a pilgrimage. For rogues, a gang.

[still plover]

For warlocks, a problem.

[drifting fjord]

For cats it’s a clouder. Lol

[umbral girder]

A coven of Warlocks

[hot marlin]

Coven for warlocks, yeah.

For wizards... A study?

[stark maple]

official or what

[still plover]

Dealer's choice.

[umbral girder]

A Cult of Warlocks

[stark maple]

i like the new pugilist class but for official monk

[still plover]

What's best about them?

[umbral girder]

They are less evasive and damage reducing than Monks

Like Barbarian they take hits more but they rely on Temp HP spam.

[hot marlin]

Now, for sorcerers, no idea.

[stark maple]

this pretty much

[umbral girder]

They also can reliably get max rolls on their damage dice too.

[umbral girder]

A polycule of Sorcerers. /jk

[stark maple]

not to mention they can spend a die to reduce damage and if its a 0 then you can make 1 unarmed strike

[umbral girder]

Or a literal family of Sorcerers

[alpine talon]

hellooo

[umbral girder]

Pugilist is it’s own mechanics but mixes the playstyle of Monk and Barbarian well

[stark maple]

yea

[thick anvil]

Howdy everyone

[umbral girder]

Hello!

[stark maple]

how do i flavor the guy from princess and the frog being my parton

[still plover]

Dr. Facilier?

[stark maple]

bingo

and he has friends on the otherside

[hot marlin]

Considering that he is explicitely a human, and in D&D would be considered a warlock himself, it seems difficult

[still plover]

A powerful and reclusive mage who teaches you magical secrets, rites and rituals.

[feral fulcrum]

You fit him in as a Voodo themed Archfey.

[stark maple]

that makes sense

i guess "the friends on the otherside" would make more sense

[hot marlin]

Yeah those things, in D&D terms, are just devils

[stark maple]

the cards the cards the cards will tell

[worn lagoon]

how can a gunblade ever not be cool!?

[stark maple]

past present and future

[dark pewter]

You could write it as a pyramid scheme scenario. The "patron" you get your power from is actually just using their own patron's power to imbue you

[stark maple]

thhats legit i what i was thinking but i thought it was too silly

[feral fulcrum]

I'm more of a fan of Gun Lances.

[dark pewter]

I actually think I might use that angle on my upcoming warlock

[worn lagoon]

I'm too final fantasy-pilled for gunlances

[still plover]

I'd be down for them just being their own kind of magic-user. NPCs don't follow PC rules. They send their familiar or some other servant out to you from time to time with cryptic formulae on scraps of parchment to decipher.

[stark maple]

Dr. Facilier was way to charming holy

he could make an amazing patron to trick someone

[still plover]

But I've always been on the side of warlocks uncovering magical secrets through their patrons rather than having some kind of wireless connection to their patron's own powers.

[hot marlin]

You don't need to trick anyone to be a warlock's patron

[fossil hollow]

love death knight aspirants

[feral fulcrum]

I've had an Undead Warlock bouncing around in my noodle for over a year at this point.

[stark maple]

wont you shake a poor sinners hand

are you ready!

[pearl hedge]

holy wow.. got into a campaign in less than a day

[pearl hedge]

heh.. truth department calling

[stark maple]

hamburger

[pearl hedge]

uhh we don't serve hamburgers here sir

[stark maple]

uses create food and water above you to make it rain hamburgers

[pearl hedge]

yes we don't make hamburgers

[stark maple]

hamburger

[pearl hedge]

uhh.. sir did you make these hamburgers? they're all burnt

maybe you didn't cook them correctly

[stark maple]

it was hard

[pearl hedge]

making burgers? don't you just.. flip them on the grill?

[stark maple]

idk ask the spell

[pearl hedge]

fair enough

ok. goodbye sir!

click

[stark maple]

does this mean i can make it ran pizzas on my enemies

[fiery perch]

Can anyone help me find a creature from the far realm which could change the physics around it? (god-like entity or sum)

[stark maple]

i uh

Bolothamogg?

[pearl hedge]

i'm sure you could search it up on the wiki or ask #dnd-rules or #dnd-lore ?

[fiery perch]

What do I even search

[pearl hedge]

i mean, just ask around on google? or i'm sure if you stick around there'll be someone to answer your question. i'm a little new so i don't know every monster

[lavish flame]

The best candidates I could tell you might be a group of Star Spawn people choosing to alter reality around themselves. It could be an Aboleth or Beholder in a lair that is slowly getting Weirder.

Truth be told, not much stuff really affects "euclidean" physics in D&D