dnd-discussion

[keen kestrel]

some could be half elves or elves to avoid being charmed too

[empty thicket]

300 baboons, want me to roll for each one or for group?

[keen kestrel]

that doesn't sound like mindflayers

[empty thicket]

The mindlayer found more useful using baboons than servants... and cheaper

surprisingly, they are good and cheap

[keen kestrel]

one fireball and like half those are dead

[empty thicket]

in your turn, there is 250 baboons before you

[keen kestrel]

I mean, watchers paladin remember? ain't no way they're beating us on initiative

[empty thicket]

neat, i want to see the face of someone that fr have to fight 100 baboons

[keen kestrel]

that would be funny, but this is why casters are so busted lmao

like one spell and they're practically all dead which is crazy

[empty thicket]

i know, they have lots of AOE. That is why they are surronding everyone of you all in concept

and always above your allies so you casting such destructive spells get dangerous

[keen kestrel]

I suupose wall of force would also do it

or a wall of fire

[woven flint]

Okay, so, let's consider the math
The Radius of a fireball is 20 feet, medium sized creatures take up 5 feet each

[empty thicket]

300 tokens of baboons

[woven flint]

How many Baboons can you actually fit in the radius 🤔

[worn lagoon]

Cloudkill the monkeys.

[empty thicket]

lets say for theory purpose, 3

[keen kestrel]

baboons would be small

[glad arch]

64 right?

[empty thicket]

so in each 5ft there is 3 baboons

[jovial shadow]

Small and medium creatures occupy only one 5ft square. So it wouldn't be 3 baboons per square

[woven flint]

The purpose still stands regardless

As Lich said they still occupy the same amount of space

[empty thicket]

so 1 baboon per square?

[jovial shadow]

Yep

[empty thicket]

okey, 300 tokens of baboon in the screen.

[hearty bay]

does a spell having no verbal or somatic components mean anything mechanically?

[lean lark]

Yes

[crimson gulch]

yeah, if its non verbal you can do it if you cant talk, if its not somatic or material you dont have to use your hands

[hearty bay]

does it grant any sort of advantage/disadvantage on saving throws, resilience against counterspell or anything of the sort?

otherwise it sounds pretty minor

[woven flint]

If it doesn't have Verbal, Somatic or Material components, it can be counterspelled

Also, lack of verbal components means you're less likely to be heard casting

[lean lark]

Also, if gagged or under the effect of silence, you cannot cast a spell with a somatic component

[woven flint]

Verbal*

Verbal is speaking
Somatic is the physical motions

Somatic components are the hardest to prevent because not much mechanically actually prevents it

Not restrained, not grappled, not Paralyzed...

[hearty bay]

having a spellcasting focus doesn't really count as removing the component requirement, right?

[lean lark]

No

[woven flint]

For spells that have a component with a listed price, no

[hearty bay]

I mean spells with component pouch components

[woven flint]

For spells that have a component with an actual price it doesn't

But that's less spell than most think lol

[hearty bay]

so, for example, tasha's hideous laughter

if I have an arcane focus and the ability to ignore verbal and somatic components

can it be counterspelled?

[hot marlin]

Yes.

[hearty bay]

pain

[jovial shadow]

Any spell can be counter spelled

[hearty bay]

a spell with a verbal, somatic or material component

[woven flint]

Subtle spell can't be counterspelled.

[hot marlin]

Because first off: Any spell with a material component requires interacting with your material components. Which makes it pretty clear that you're casting a spell

[woven flint]

But that's a Sorcerer only option for the most part

[hot marlin]

Now, if you subtle metamagic a spell with no material components, things are different.

[hearty bay]

goo warlocks can cast illusion and enchantment spells without verbal or somatic components, through psychic spells

[hot marlin]

Counterspell requires seeing the creature casting a spell. In the absence of any component, the would-be counterspeller simply does not perceive a spell being cast and the reaction cannot be taken.

[hearty bay]

if I'm always holding an arcane focus, my question was if it would bypass the material component of spells without a price

[woven flint]

Aberrant Sorcerer gets free subtle spell for casting their subclass spells with Sorcery points!

[hearty bay]

oh, when you see them casting

so having the arcane focus at hand means such spells get cast scot free

[hot marlin]

In theory yes

Bear in mind, there may be situations where an opponent has a way to beat subtle spell and counterspell you. But those are extremely rare

[woven flint]

Indeed
Greater Invisibility is a pretty good way to overcome being seen and counterspelled...
Unless the enemy has see Invisibility or truesight 😭
But it also costs you your concentration

[hearty bay]

I was wondering if an illusionist warlock could have a good time

[lean lark]

Does Blindsight allow you to counterspell ann invisible caster?

[jovial shadow]

Good question. I think it is a type of sight

[sour trench]

It does, unless they are using Sublte Spell.

[surreal wadi]

is there somewhere on here to look for a online group to play?

[jovial shadow]

Of course Blindsight is limited in range.

[woven flint]

No, you still can't see them, but you can detect them.

Well, actually , hold on, I may be stupid 🤔

Ah, you can "See" the creature so long as it's not behind total cover

[split pivot]

Hi everyone!

Im new to dnd and would love to talk to you! Is anyone available?

[jovial shadow]

https://discord.com/channels/516367331358801950/966723268675510372

[split pivot]

Woopsie :3

[buoyant oar]

https://dragonlancenexus.com/jean-rabe-placed-in-hospice/

Sad news: Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms author Jean Rabe has been placed in hospice care.

She is best known for the Krynnspace supplement for Spelljammer, the Dhamon Saga, the Stonetellers Series of novels, as well as novels set in the Forgotten Realms, Shadowrun, and Star Wars shared universes.

[fossil hollow]

Oh no!

[west sail]

What is your all's thought on the titan stone gauntlets from vox machinea

[opal remnant]

Cool but not 4 me

[hot marlin]

Wait, she's the one who wrote Aftershock?! That's the novel that got me into Shadowrun

[naive cedar]

I’ve been thinking about looking into Shadowrun recently

[hot marlin]

You're in for a ride.

[naive cedar]

Whats it like? It looks cool

[hot marlin]

I would be happy to give you more details in #non-dnd-topics

[naive cedar]

Mb lol. Sure!

[timber turtle]

Goblins aren't real right? :(

[woven flint]

I'm a goblin >:3

[robust imp]

I'm basic

[opal remnant]

Yh they do, they're kinda cute sometimes (depends on the media)

[empty thicket]

my artificer is a goblin

literally, she hoard all the money she can

and now is alcoholic for trauma, will see to fix it in some moment

[fallow pond]

Has there been any announcements recently about the horror subclasses such as hexblade coming back soon? Or any new books?

[humble cairn]

Goblins are just as intelligent as any other humanoid.

[wanton sorrel]

true

[empty thicket]

depend, we have a big spectrum in that
some are literally same int than a raven and others you ask the "did you know?" and they will most likely say "YES I KNOW"

[crimson gulch]

no book anouncements yet

[fading marsh]

Goofy ahh question, but how good are other TTRPGs like PF2e and Daggerheart, as well as older D&D editions?

[timid current]

just like all the other humanoids, yeah?

[rough basalt]

It's all subjective.

[empty thicket]

okey okey

[rough basalt]

Generally pf2e and Daggerheart have been considered good systems.

[humble cairn]

Just as intelligent also includes just as stupid as any other humanoid.

[rough basalt]

And all dnd editions have had some sort of success due to being good in some way, even tho the executives of one edition really didn't wanna succeed. /hj

[empty thicket]

Epic

[timid current]

every edition was more successful than the last. and there isn't a single set of executives that "wanted to fail"

3.0 wasn't THAT bad

[rough basalt]

Tbh some of the executive decisions for 4e could be seen as wanting to fail cause of how dumb they were

[timid current]

"dumb"? you mean by making the until-that-point most successful edition of D&D?

it's a fine problem to have imo

[rough basalt]

I mean by ruining a long running setting that made a lot of writers for it quit and nearly ended a long running successful book series, as well as ruined relations with its creator that are only really starting to try and fix.

[timid current]

oh that's not what happened but go off

lmao

I know some youtubers (or at the time bloggers/forum posters) told a lot of tall tales but it continued selling well and even that myth that pathfinder outsold 4e was only true right before 5e had released, when 4e had been out of print for some time

I know there were very tobacco-obsessed bloggers who were VERY insistent than the edition they didn't like was a failure but unfortunately for them, it wasn't.

[rough basalt]

It's actually a well known fact that RA Salvatore nearly quit the Drizzt franchise cause of the 4e Forgotten Realms and in a recent interview he said it almost broke his creativity at the time.

[timid current]

all of the anecdotes don't hold water when you look at the actual sales numbers

[timid current]

what part of that is the executives not wanting to succeed though?

like you're making some big claims here

[rough basalt]

Executives didn't consult anyone involved with FR about the gutting of the setting.

[timid current]

YESSSSS

[naive cedar]

Ed greenwood was also very upset about it iirc

[timid current]

Gutting, that's my bingo card for the day

I was wondering when that was going to show up, thanks :>

[naive cedar]

Doesnt make what they said wrong

[rough basalt]

Yeah RA said he started crying after the meeting where they revealed the changes to them and told them to "deal with it"

[timid current]

anyway, 4e was intended to succeed, and it did succeed and some people didn't like it, but some people didn't like every edition

[naive cedar]

It was more than just “some people”

[rough basalt]

Tho RA did predict that they'd retcon the whole 4e FR lore which they did for 5e so he just wrote something on the side till they fixed it.

[empty thicket]

There will be always someone that dont like something, it happen

[timid current]

yep. and the "more than some people" wasn't enough to make sales less than "better than every edition before it"

continually, through the life of the product mind you

[naive cedar]

Sales =/= quality

[timid current]

no, but returning customers sure shows that there was something that the executives were doing right

would you assume people would just buy things they don't like over and over? especially with PF out there just aping the previous edition?

[empty thicket]

and another thing, they can tank a pair of bad editions honestly, like, without a "bad" edition you cant get good ones too

[buoyant oar]

4e mechanically was very good. 4e writing was just so bad. So bad, that less than 3 years after "Lawing down the law" On the spellplague they contacted the writers to start laying down seeds to fix it with the sundering.

[timid current]

haven't had a bad edition yet

[naive cedar]

Anyways 4e was bad story wise

[timid current]

I mean maybe for your preferred setting

I couldn't care less about forgotten realms (part of why I'm so glad it's no longer the defacto setting for 5e)

[rough basalt]

Ye 4e mechanics wise was great and it's why a lot of ttrpgs took inspiration.

[timid current]

eberron was great, the main setting for 4e was nentir vale, not even the realms

[buoyant oar]

4e was also the setting about how to have slaves and be good. for darksun

[empty thicket]

that is why i put "bad" in that way, but again, i find better that each edition have his "thing" instead of all just being upgrades of past editions

[rough basalt]

Daggerheart, Draw Steel, Lancer, DnD2024

[bronze wave]

Idk if any dnd setting has good story

[naive cedar]

Setting is very important and the majority of people play forgotten realms shrug you’d think they’d make their main setting good

[bronze wave]

There’s so many contradictions and confusing choices for like every setting

I think the setting has good enough points to homebrew so meh

[timid current]

mostly, yes

I think everyone in this conversation agrees about that

[buoyant oar]

While the nentir vale was the base setting for dnd in 4e, the realms still had the most staying power even in 4e. The dnd mmo that came out in 4e was Realms based.

[rough basalt]

Game itself was amazing, there was just not good decision making when it came to Settings.

[naive cedar]

Exactly lol realms is far and away the most popular setting hence why the majority of dnd media is based around it

[empty thicket]

Yep, that is the "bad" in every edition and even polishing everything, such big thing like DnD will always have a problem

[rough basalt]

It's combat is pretty influential.

[timid current]

combat, social stuff, adventuring

[rough basalt]

Daggerheart, Lancer and Draw Steel adapted its combat to varying degrees

[timid current]

though a lot of people pretend it had less of the other pillars because I suppose someone said it did (but if you read the books there is more in there than in 3.5)

yeah 4e does that just fine. better than previous editions anyways. arguably better in concept than 5e, though 5e really buries it

[empty thicket]

its part of adventuring isnt it?

[rough basalt]

A good amount of '24s changes were 4e inspired

[humble cairn]

Are these explicitly inspired by 4E? Or are you just noticing similarities?

[rough basalt]

Draw Steel states its inspired by 4e, same with Daggerheart among many other systems

[humble cairn]

I love Cantrips and they were basically from 4E, right?

[rough basalt]

And Lancer I think says so as well for its Grid based combat system

[unborn lotus]

In what way are the realms bad?

[timid current]

lancer is heavily 4e inspired

[naive cedar]

I didn’t say they were bad. The way it was handled in 4e was bad

[empty thicket]

yeah, can make you a campaign around it without problem or search any that is already made around it. Its 2026, so i expect someone already did it

[timid current]

people didn't like the narrative shift that happened in 4e

sometimes a narrative shift is well recieved, sometimes it isn't. when it's not well recieved people like to say the writers are dumb or bad or intending to fail

[rough basalt]

In 4th edition they basically just burnt the lorebook for Forgotten Realms which wasn't received well and was done without the consulting of its main contributors which wasn't a good look.

[timid current]

which is a really silly thing to say.

[naive cedar]

The actual creator of FR didnt like it

[unborn lotus]

A lot of people also hated the mechanics with a passion for the record.
The 4e actually good take is a hot one that players at the time will disagree with.
I've had this discussion in elder editions many times

[humble cairn]

I've heard people didn't like the mechanics, either. Not that they were inherently bad, but people complained about them not feeling like "true" D&D.

[naive cedar]

Actually I don’t know anyone who liked it lol

[rough basalt]

They had to retcon basically the whole settings lore

[naive cedar]

It wasn’t just a typical narrative shift

[unborn lotus]

4e definitely had some cool ideas but it was riddled with problems in every facet of the game including pure mechanics

[timid current]

so many people hated the mechanics with a passion before even trying them.

[rough basalt]

Remove it and basically treat it like it never happened.
The Spellplague isn't really even acknowledged much in 5e.

[timid current]

4e being good isn't a hot take in real world conversations where you can see that it was wildly sucessful and people kept buying more and more of it.

[unborn lotus]

The things people generally defend from 4e are nitpicked ideas not the system at large

[bronze wave]

Isn’t that the stuff with karsus and stuff when all the spells got removed or smth

[naive cedar]

I know lots of people irl who didnt ljke 4e either 🤷‍♀️

[timid current]

actually it sounds like you're starting to attack the people who have that opinion

[buoyant oar]

The biggest pain was a 100 year time skip. by the end of 3rd edition there was hundreds of lore books that filled out the realms with detail to use at your leisure.

Now none of them were relevant because most of the humans that filled out the realms were dead.

[bronze wave]

My goat tho, karsus killed a god my man

[unborn lotus]

4e was a financial flop

[cosmic roost]

No pings, please :pray:

If you see someone with “No Pings” in their name, please don’t @ that user. If you Reply to them, please turn the alert @OFF, and if you forget, a simple apology is appreciated. Thank you!

[empty thicket]

yeah, some sort of Skyrim exploring? or what you mean by "the main thing is exploring"?

[rough basalt]

The Spellplague was the event for 4th edition FR

[timid current]

nah, it genuinely wasn't. Mike Mearls, who went on record as not really liking 4e, confirmed that every print run outsold 3.x

[humble cairn]

I feel like 4E was probably the most balanced edition of D&D, but I think it's kind of telling that people don't actually want balance once they have it, despite what they say.

[bronze wave]

I assume each edition of dnd out self sells the older

[glossy scroll]

Hi

[buoyant oar]

Worse yet the spellplague was over by the timeline of the 4e guide. Players did not get to explore it. They only got to deal with a world 100 years later.

Spellplague would have been cool if players got to be a part of that story like they were with the Sundering in DnDNext.

[naive cedar]

Yeah idk what they were thinking skipping 100 years in the future. Being able to explore the spellplague could’ve been cool honestly

[rough basalt]

Drizzt watching his future wife shrivel and die cause some dude wanted to move the world forward 100 years cause he was bored /j

[empty thicket]

...... "like pokemon" in What way? Be kind to explain it properly please

[late kernel]

What is the Spellplague?

[rough basalt]

Magic went wrong

[bronze wave]

Karsus was a player in my heart of hearts

[buoyant oar]

Karsus wasn't spellplague tho

[rough basalt]

Karsus was way way way before spellplague

Karsus was in negative years FR

[empty thicket]

okey okey, yeah, there might be something already made or can catch something already made and work on it without problem

[rough basalt]

FR equivalent to BCE or whatever they call it.

[unborn lotus]

I'm sceptical of anything Mike has said since he left wizards seeing as he's been called out on telling blatant lies before and also went on a pointless 5.5e hate tour
The history of 4e is that it failed to be financially successful and had to be shelved long before it's run was supposed to be over.

This is on the Wikipedia page and was well known at the time of 5es release

[timid current]

https://alphastream.org/index.php/2023/07/08/pathfinder-never-outsold-4e-dd-icymi/ this is numerous employees and former employees that are not mearls confirming that it sold well

[rough basalt]

I am glad that Heroes of Faerun did the right kind of timeskip

[buoyant oar]

WotC thought the Realms had too much lore so they though that the best course of action was to put a stick in a bike tire of their most popular setting.

Yea only 5 years ❤️

[naive cedar]

Yeah they seem to have learned from their previous errors

[bronze wave]

Damn I got my years messed up its over

[rough basalt]

They let us into the 1500s

[buoyant oar]

We already have a book set after Heroes of Faerun lol

[timid current]

I'm not at all saying you have to enjoy the narrative for one of the non-primary settings of 4e, but to say it was a financial failure is false.

[buoyant oar]

The Finest Edge of Twilight is set 1504-1511 DR

[naive cedar]

Also for the record, I’m not saying it’s bad to like 4e. It’s just that there’s a lot of legitimate reasons people didnt like it

[timid current]

sure. I am not saying anyone has to like it

[naive cedar]

That’s still a fairly reasonable time skip

[rough basalt]

Ah yeah, my favorite part of it is when Breezy says it's Breezing time, and Breezes

[timid current]

I'm just kinda irritated at the weird false narratives of "they wanted it to fail" or "it wasn't financially successful"

[buoyant oar]

4e may have made money but from every where I have heard it was a failure in terms of expectations.

[unborn lotus]

I mean this is specifically addressing the lost to pathfinder myth which I for sure acknowledge it didn't and there's basically no way it could have
But even the employees here are pretty clear it didn't hit it's numbers

[timid current]

both are false.

[bronze wave]

My fav edition is the one I stayed playing in

[unborn lotus]

D&D is incomparable to any other TTRPG

[naive cedar]

Yeah everything I’ve ever read said 4e underperformed, but it didn’t bomb

[rough basalt]

Eh

DnD isn't incomparable I'd say.

[empty thicket]

i dont expect testing more than 3 editions honestly, 2 min like i already do but not at all because its 2014 and 2024

[rough basalt]

It's like the water of tabletop rpgs

[timid current]

anyway it's wild that people still think this more thana decade later. it sold very well, it sold better than 3.5, and maybe WOTC wanted it to do even better but to say it was less financially successful is simply false.

[naive cedar]

Yeah DND is always going to outsell or at least match sales of other games

[rough basalt]

Actually ima not continue that line of thinking cause I'm confusing myself

[unborn lotus]

Also it is a good game is pretty much straight up a hot take. It's cool to like it but players at the time and players returning to it today pretty much unanimously agree it's pretty deeply flawed.

[buoyant oar]

4e was also supposed to have DnD Insider which exploded in the worst possible way which hurt its reputation hard.

[bronze wave]

It’s the biggest ttrpg

[timid current]

flawed doesn't mean "not good"

[rough basalt]

Basically there are other fantasy systems you can play instead of dnd and enjoy just as much or more.

[unborn lotus]

I think it did a lot of cool stuff but it's not a game I ever want to play

And a lot of people come to 5e being like "4e did it better" but the people they convince to actually go back to 4e usually end up going "what're you talking about??"

[rough basalt]

But DnD is always just a good choice

[timid current]

nobody is trying to convince anyone to go play 4e instead

[buoyant oar]

I am 😉

[rough basalt]

Should try 4e tho. It's a lot of fun

[timid current]

I am saying WOTC executives didn't "set out to fail" like sora stated

[naive cedar]

Everything I read about 4e said that it underperformed

[feral fulcrum]

WOTC Execs set out to make money.

[timid current]

yep. and that means selling a game successfully. which they did

[rough basalt]

They just made some poor decisions that prevented them from making more money.

[naive cedar]

I think sora was using hyperbole. Obviously nobody sets out to fail

[unborn lotus]

Ah sorry, I jumped in late and hadn't seen that specific argument

[timid current]

?noping

[late kernel]

As an MTG player... yeah.

[feral fulcrum]

Many players do when they roll terrible stats.

[unborn lotus]

Ah crap gonna get done for pinging

[timid current]

you just gotta read

[unborn lotus]

Sorry for that too

[rough basalt]

Praise Lord 4e, hallowed be it's name.

[naive cedar]

Also if 4e had been a success it would’ve gone on for longer

[late kernel]

Not using standard array is a gamble, and sometimes you loseee.

[feral fulcrum]

Reading comprehension is sadly an increasingly rare skill these days.

[rough basalt]

I mean, it was what, 6 years?

[buoyant oar]

4e game good. 4e lore trash. Except a couple bits, we can keep dragonborn in faerun and the warlock knights.

[unborn lotus]

Do you have a problem with 5e? There's an easy answer to all your questions:
This was fixed in 4e.

[naive cedar]

yeah which isn’t very long for a dnd edition

[rough basalt]

3.5e was 5 I think

[wanton sorrel]

which editon had best lore?

[buoyant oar]

which setting

[unborn lotus]

Best is subjective

[rough basalt]

Some editions settings lore was really good compared to others

[feral fulcrum]

That's really only a question you yourself can answer. As it's entirely subjective.

[late kernel]

As a homebrew setting truther, any edition can have the best setting.

[wanton sorrel]

hmmmm it's got to be first edition

[rough basalt]

With old setting books sometimes you gotta deal with some "products of their time"

[buoyant oar]

For the forgotten realms 2e has the most by far.

[timid current]

original: 3 years
AD&D1: 6 years
AD&D2+revised: 6 years
3/3.5: 8 years
4e: 6 years
5e: 12 years and counting

[naive cedar]

Remember comeliness

[unborn lotus]

Yeah 5e is the longest edition by far

[feral fulcrum]

Most of the time, really. The older D&D products were....certainly something.

[unborn lotus]

And 4e is actually the second longest if you count every corebook rerelease as a new edition

[naive cedar]

I don’t

[unborn lotus]

Like 4e lasts longer than 3rd or 3.5

[quartz garnet]

Hello everyone

[timid current]

I did combine 3.x to be gracious to the point

[unborn lotus]

Are those AD&D years correct? I thought if you combined the numbered editions some of the old editions hit 10 years

[timid current]

why would you combine numbered editions?

[feral fulcrum]

It won the marketing war, so they're going to milk it until they can no longer get blood out of the proverbial stone.

[unborn lotus]

Like 2e has like 3 versions. But the whole of 2e is 89 - 95

[timid current]

that's what I was counting, yes

[unborn lotus]

Wait I just did crappy maths lol 🤣

[rough basalt]

I really want them to announce this year's stuff

[naive cedar]

2e is much longer than 6 years

[unborn lotus]

I added a decade by accident

[timid current]

it ran from 1989-1995

[naive cedar]

It ran from 1989-2000 if you count the revision

[timid current]

the revision was released in 95

if we're talking about "how long people kept playing it" then it's still going

[naive cedar]

I know: I’m counting it

[unborn lotus]

If you split up 3.5 and 5.24 3rd edition becomes really tiny but fifth remains the longest edition regardless 😛

[feral fulcrum]

I do find it rather funny and sad that it took until as late as 2024 to address some of the most glaring errors in 5E.

[rough basalt]

I played dnd for the first time with 3.5e in 2016, but got into dnd for good with 5e in 2022

[hidden spindle]

2023-2026. Started 5e right before the update

[timid current]

so is 4e

[naive cedar]

I wonder if anyone plays the first edition from 1974

[buoyant oar]

I played it last month

[wanton sorrel]

me

[naive cedar]

Is it any good?

[rough basalt]

Better get ready to roll negatives

[wanton sorrel]

well i still got to get the rest of the modules and other stuff

[unborn lotus]

I think errata editions of books should be more acceptable especially in the digital age.

Like rearrange the monster manual it's fine. New buyers will get a better copy, old buyers still have a functioning book, digital buyers get a big upgrade

[timid current]

anyway none of that actually matters, what I was saying is that nobody wanted 4e to fail (except the aforementioned tobacco-enthusiast bloggers who were drumming up hate before it even released). and it was financially successful even if it wasn't a monster, it was still more successful than any of the competition, and any previous edition

[wanton sorrel]

the reason why i bought first edtion was because of temple of elemtenal evil, and white mountian plume, and slave lords

[buoyant oar]

OD&D is fun. It is a much looser game than any other version

[unborn lotus]

They should do it with care though. Like spend 3 years on 5e 2024 second edition. Then release the books with all errata and updates to address criticism
And sell them as a box set as a bonus for players who want to upgrade.

Having a better edition for new buyers doesn't make older editions worse... But I get why a company wouldn't want to do that

[feral fulcrum]

Some companies are big on that. But WOTC is deathly allergic to the idea of Digitalzing the books because P I R A T E S. They'd sooner gnaw their own legs off then possibly lose a nickel.

[timid current]

note that 2024 was a ten year processs to address criticism and errata

[unborn lotus]

D&D beyond literally exists

[feral fulcrum]

Yes, but PDF's do not.

[woeful halo]

sos, my next session isn’t for 2 weeks and I feel like I’m gonna explode

[naive cedar]

Anyways 4e < 5e

[feral fulcrum]

And D&D Beyond is still a flaming garbage fire more often then not

[naive cedar]

Every time I go on dndbeyond it’s lagging lol

[unborn lotus]

Yep but there's plenty of small criticisms out the gate they could fix without having to release a new edition and in only a few years haha

Like some of the ordering is bad. There's maybe one or two rules from Xanathars or 2014 they could stick back into the book that were possibly oversights.

Like obviously I'm not the person who gets to decide what's in the corebooks but I'm sure they'd benefit from quicker updates. And it would be minimal Dev time

[woven flint]

Everyone in my 15th level party: People with godly powers

Me: Feline Fellow with a Crossbow and a dream

[cosmic roost]

No pings, please :pray:

If you see someone with “No Pings” in their name, please don’t @ that user. If you Reply to them, please turn the alert @OFF, and if you forget, a simple apology is appreciated. Thank you!

[timid current]

I'm sure there'll be fixes and errata, there's no reason to think there won't be

[empty thicket]

yeah, its what happen to most martials in the parties

[sullen ingot]

Me

[woven flint]

Worst part? I'm a Rogue....

Best part? I'M THE ROGUE, BABEH!

[feral fulcrum]

I just hope they're put in an actual usuable place, and don't end up being functionaly yet another J-Craw twitter post.

[wanton sorrel]

I love rogues

[timid current]

well much like pre-2024 they will probably put them into a pdf with a changelog

[warm summit]

Well official ones don't anyway

[woven flint]

Cunning Strikes are delicious

[timid current]

https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/PH-Errata.pdf

[woven flint]

And being a Thief Rogue is super fun

[timid current]

they have a history of doing this, I don't know why that would change

[naive cedar]

I like swashbuckler

[wanton sorrel]

nahhh pickpocting is great for thief class

i feel like rogues are more assassin types than a thief

[woven flint]

... Thief is a Rogue subclass in 5e

[wanton sorrel]

well in first edtion assassin is a subclass to thief

[empty thicket]

Yep, even not being able to flat a whole kingdom, each martial became his thing
Barbarian being a too angry to die creature
Rogue a lethal and giga hard to stop monster
Monk an entity capable of literally take everything and dodge it
Fighter Someone that will stood his ground against anything and most likely will dominate every combat

[naive cedar]

OGs remember warriors/mage/priest/thief

[wanton sorrel]

there is no rogue

[woven flint]

Well, I'm playing 5th Edition, so there is a Rogue :p

[warm summit]

In first edition there aren't subclasses

[woven flint]

Thief BECAME the Rogue class and a Rogue subclass

[feral fulcrum]

There is no Rogue, only Rouge.

Eh, I'd disagree

[woven flint]

Also, Thief earns the Rogue title at level 9 in first edition.

[empty thicket]

they are.... hard to see. They are hybrids and hybrids have the problem of being able to do a lot

[feral fulcrum]

They're as grand as Tasha's, just with an...entirely weird fixation on Hunter's Mark that Really wants you to only play a certain way.

[timid current]

rangers aren't underpowered, they just have a weird class fiction

[jovial shadow]

Not true. The fighter had the Ranger and Paladin. The cleric had the Druid. The Magic user had the Illusionists. The Thief had the assasin.

[timid current]

for some reason after 4e they're having difficulty landing on an idea for what ranger is

[empty thicket]

A ranger can still do damage with weapons, but can use spells for either upgrade their attacks, debuff the enemy or utility//damage in general

[wanton sorrel]

shrugs i guess i never read that far yet

[timid current]

or at least having difficulty communicating that with mechanics

[feral fulcrum]

Ranger is a Druid with an Identity crisis, according to WOTC's various design teams

[warm summit]

Yeah but they ain't subclasses they are like other classes you can multi class into like prestige classes in 3.X

[empty thicket]

the spells are Kinda like druid, so there is an understanding in saying "ranger is a druid with some martial"

[jovial shadow]

Oh they are subclasses. In fact it states it in the book. Maybe not like prestige classes, but I never played 3 or 3.5

[woven flint]

Rogue and Thief have always been one in the same
Rogue is an overall term for ne'er-do-wells

[empty thicket]

The problem for me is "ranger is a druid and fighter son"?

[unborn lotus]

Yeah there already has been haha but they limit what is allowed as errata. No new content and no layout changes or anything like that. They basically only errata typos and balance issues.

[empty thicket]

But meh, any class work at this point of the times

Some people try to make some new classes and its really hard, didnt saw at all this "blood hunter", it is good?

[wanton sorrel]

it's says on page 28 on my pdf that assassin is a sub class

[warm summit]

What book, and how many of y'all need to go um ackshually

[wanton sorrel]

players hand book 1e

[warm summit]

1e like AD&D 1e?

[wanton sorrel]

yes? i think let me check

[jovial shadow]

Yes

[wanton sorrel]

it's the players handbook from 1978

[warm summit]

Y'all are goofy

[unborn lotus]

Elder editions should be discussed in #dnd-elder-editions

[wanton sorrel]

true

[warm summit]

You're goofy too

[wanton sorrel]

?

[fossil hollow]

woot another session of SKT epilogue done, Rogue Hill Giants decimated

and the goblinoids have been unionized

[woven flint]

We did it...
We saved the world! /joking

Lockpick was getting some nasty licks and just being a sneaky boi

[hot marlin]

I have been thinking about heroic fantasy. The term is a bit more deceptive than it appears. You can imagine two very different meanings:
Heroic fantasy in the sense of "the fantasy of heroism". If we used that definition for D&D, it could mean "D&D fulfills the desire to imagine one's self as a hero"
And heroic fantasy in the sense of "A type of fantasy (meaning a type of fiction set in a magical world) where some characters are heroes, meaning people with the ability to affect the world meaningfully, regardless of morality". In that, it is a synonym to Sword and Sorcery.

And that's the interesting thing I have been thinking about. Normally Sword and Sorcery as a genre is not a genre that concerns itself with morality. The big names of the genre, Conan and Elric, are notably amoral characters.

So I think one could say that D&D is not really heroic fantasy in the actual literary genre definition. D&D is its own subgenre.

So yeah, D&D keeps saying that its default genre is heroic fantasy but... I don't think that's true. Not the genre at least, the synonym of Sword and Sorcery. Instead it is a heroic fantasy in the non-genre definition. It fulfills the fantasy of heroism.

[umbral girder]

That is a subclass for Thief! The assassin! I know because I have a copy of the AD&D PHB.

[warm summit]

@umbral girder ^

[umbral girder]

I said the book

[late kernel]

Session 1 of my campaign is this friday, a month or so in the works, nervous as hell but also excited.

[gritty vessel]

question for the online players, if your not using dnd beyond, what are the best online sheets to use? Like I want to make a Tamer Class character from Heliana's but obviously that's not on dnd beyond but idk what to use instead

[fringe ledge]

can just use excel sheet and take any pre-prep sheet people share online. Most of the times, they have guide on how you can do custom classes on their pre-prep sheet

[gritty vessel]

True but I was more looking for sights, mainly because half of the stuff has a wall of text but it is nice to have that there if you forget how something works

[humble cairn]

It's an interesting thought, but I'm not sure that I agree that Sword and Sorcery is completely synonymous with Heroic Fantasy. And in terms of what is or is not a genre .. that's fairly subjective and subject to the zeitgeist, is it not? I feel like The Fantasy of Heroism is just as much a genre as Sword and Sorcery. As well as Fantasy + Heroes. Wait .. when did "Hero" come to mean "regardless of morality?"

Pretty sure popular definition of Hero would include some sort of goodness.

[hot marlin]

The fantasy of heroism does not really qualify as a genre under any definition. It's more like a trope. You could find it in a lot of genres and media.

It's like... You know, "love triangle" is not a genre.

[cerulean monolith]

Sword and sorcery only really encompasses the ‘lower levels’ of heroic fantasy

[humble cairn]

Ok that's fair.

[humble cairn]

But Fantasy + Heroes is more than Sword and Sorcery.

[hot marlin]

That is indeed true! There are heroes in Epic Fantasy. Sometimes even in low fantasy and dark fantasy (though with caveats)

But I would argue that "heroic fantasy" is not "fantasy + heroes" otherwise the term would just be useless because that's basically all fantasy (except dark, again with caveats)

[humble cairn]

And Conan is almost an accidental Hero.

He does good, even when he doesn't necessarily intend good.

[undone rain]

Speakin of fantasy, i love those sorta fairytale fantasy things. Where the wizards are old men with big beards and everythings light and nice. Is that light fantasy?

[hot marlin]

"Hero" in literary discourse is traditionally understood to mean someone with great bravery who carries out extraordinary deeds. A hero in literary discourse is someone with great agency, whose strong qualities and skills allow them to bend the narrative.

Whether the deeds are good or not is secondary

[umbral girder]

Sounds like the Fey wild

[glossy otter]

Well, it's finally happned. Dnd x fortnite is now a thing

[hushed mason]

None!

[undone rain]

Wot

[hot marlin]

Not a term normally used. This is generally either a fairy tale, or another fantasy genre. Excluding dark and low fantasy

[empty thicket]

mmmm.... i like how every person can have an idea of hero, mine is someone that even in the worst conditions, they go forward and carry the light of hope. Fighting and spreading their flame or dying in the try.
Mostly inspired in Darkest dungeon my way to see them

[vital ether]

h

[hushed mason]

Just... fantasy.

[undone rain]

Well i guess fairy tale? Or is it light

[glossy otter]

other way around

[hot marlin]

It depends on the type of story.

[undone rain]

How does that work

What we got like a mind flayer there

[glossy otter]

It's a fortnite creative map set in the FR, sponsored by WOTC

[hot marlin]

The setting you've described lends itself to heroic fantasy, epic fantasy or a lot of the other fantasy subgenres, to the exclusion of dark fantasy and low fantasy.

[sturdy vale]

hello

[empty thicket]

Depend what, some funny items i wont mind, some special mechanics too. In a campaign im playing we have a glory kill mechanic that we can do that, a glory kill to a giga low hp enemy with no reaction and we can either scare the other enemies, get temporal hp, recharge a resource or get back the movement action recharged.

[hushed mason]

Actually, a lot of fairy tales are quite dark.

[hot marlin]

Unless... Well actually I could see a dark fantasy set in a land where everything is nice and light. It would require the outside world to come creeping in. Maybe the revelation that everything being light and nice is actually paid by a great crime and suffering, Omelas style.

[timid current]

things seem pretty chill in most of thra

it's a nice little froudy fantasy world

• there's skeksis

[glossy otter]

wait, we talking dark crystal?

[hot marlin]

Omelas being the setting of Ursula K. Leguin's 1973 work The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas. Omelas is a perfect city but it requires that a single child be kept in perpetual filth, darkness and misery. The question being "is that suffering acceptable, would you stay in Omelas?"

[empty thicket]

yeah, depend of what folklore are talking

[humble cairn]

Perhaps true in academic literary analysis, but not the same a viewed from popular culture, I feel.

Villains are also often quite brave and act with great agency.

[hushed mason]

I'm thinking of the Andrew Lang fairy books which covered a wide range of folk tales.

[empty thicket]

sadly i dont know who is that, but i know some legends from before. Most containing stuff not nice so, welp.

[hushed mason]

"cut off my head and bathe your infant in my blood" kind of stuff.

[empty thicket]

Yep.

[hot marlin]

Yes, and in literary discourse one could say that a villain is a specific type of hero.

[empty thicket]

Welp, depend how you see it too and make it work. If you make a solid point of view a villain can be a hero but from a different perspective

[timid current]

you aren't talking about villains, you're talking about antagonists

[empty thicket]

Or there can be a villain that know is doing something bad but he know that his mission must be made

[timid current]

an antagonist can be capital G good, so long as they're opposed to the protagonist

[empty thicket]

Can be, Antagonist and villains are things pretty mixed most of the time

an antagonist can be a villain, a villain can be an antagonist but dont mean they cant be their own thing

an antagonist that think every monster should be put down while the protagonist think they can work out the things.
Both from the same kingdom
Antagonist isnt the villain there, just the opposite ideals than the protagonist

[hot marlin]

There are nuances. The term "villain" only exists within a specific moral framework. Some fictions lacks the moral framework that would allow a villain to exist.
If we take the origin of the term, it used to mean "lower class person", and eventually designated people who engaged in behaviour that was unchivalrous.

But see, for the "villain" to exist, it requires the fiction to subscribe to chivalric ideals

[empty thicket]

and that is another thing, the "villain" must be a "Monster" in most scenarios.

or, in other way, a villain of example i love is Dracula from Castlevania. He is broken, sad, dont even eat after his wife death, he is angry and at the same time want his life to end.
A sad villain, a tragic villain

[hot marlin]

That's the origin, of course. Eventually, the villain became the character whose actions go against the morality the story espouses, sympathetic or not. But here is the trick: Richard III is the villain of Richard III. He is also the hero of the play.

Because contrary to popular simplification, villainy and heroism are not mutually exclusive

[empty thicket]

Another thing, good stories need a villain too

It help to drive and contrast the heroes

[hot marlin]

Not necessarily. Plenty of good stories are devoid of them, it depends on the genre

[empty thicket]

True, but again, having an extra character that add a new layer to the story. Can be used in soooo many ways and more

[hot marlin]

Or to quote my favourite Peter Capaldi quote in Doctor Who "It's not an evil plan? I don't really know what to do when it isn't an evil plan."

[empty thicket]

But wont deny, some people just want some light story of "there is this bad guy, you are the heroes, go against him, stop him and finally win over him"

something easy to understand, easy to get. Rice might be plain but rice go well with everything

[empty thicket]

One thing i love is creatures or characters that normally would represent good things being show like the villains of the story.

[hot marlin]

Here's the keyword "Normally".

[empty thicket]

Yep, its that "oh look, it wasnt a good guy at the end" or the twists what i love

[hot marlin]

Thing is, storytelling doesn't exist in a vacuum. People rarely wonder "why does this type of music sound sad?" it doesn't. It is a cultural code. You learned to associate this type of music with a certain feeling. This is your normalcy.
Western music has its own codes, but those codes do not apply as soon as you leave western music, and someone whose ear was trained elsewhere will react very differently. Because their normal is different

The classic of course being how sinister western-style angels look to east asian audiences

[empty thicket]

Yep, habits and ways in esch side of the World, lovely isnt it?

[fringe ledge]

Sights?

[humble cairn]

Interesting, I hadn't heard that one despite being of East Asian descent and now living in SE Asia.

[hot marlin]

Well, not all. But I was told multiple times that East Asian audiences tended to react poorly to the whole "drapped in white and emiting light" aesthetics of traditional angels

[humble cairn]

Course I lived most of my life in the West.

[hot marlin]

Which makes sense, considering that white is often the colour of mourning.

[humble cairn]

Oh, well white is a funeral color in Chinese and many other E Asin cultures.

[hot marlin]

Of course, with globalization, those specific cultural quirks are getting rarer and rarer as western codes get closer to becoming a worldwide norm

[humble cairn]

Not so much rare as mixed, I feel.

[brisk lotus]

hey everyone

[plush cove]

Hey yall, just joined the discord and D&D in genral

[humble cairn]

Weddings in Asia, for example, tend to do both Asian and European style segments.

[tight tree]

Hello i have a umm question

[formal dove]

whats up

[lean lark]

Never ask how big the room is

[tight tree]

Well I wanta start my first campaign but I have no idea what to make it about any tips

[hushed mason]

Where do you want it to be set? In a fantasy world? Or do you want to run a sci-fi campaign? Western?

[formal dove]

its probably the best to use a premade one for your first time, especially if you arent into it so you dont have to make up youre own world

[lean lark]

Yeah, start with something pre written so you get the feel for how campaigns are typically written

[tight tree]

But the thing is the reason I wanta do it is to make up my own world but all my friends wanta do different ones and idk how to make them all happy

[hushed mason]

The best thing about being the DM is that you have the final say on the setting.

[brisk lotus]

hey everyone how are you all doing today?

[humble cairn]

You get them together in a Session 0 and discuss.

[tight tree]

Okay thank you I will tell yall what happens after the first session

[lean lark]

What world do you want to make?

Not your friends, but you

[unborn lotus]

What's your biggest D&D Turn off?

[hot marlin]

Joke characters.

[woven flint]

People purposefully playing their characters badly

AND... "Class that thinks they're this class!"

[hot marlin]

I've recently made it a rule: If a character seems to be made mostly for comedy, I'm leaving the table

[bronze wave]

Joke characters

[unborn lotus]

This has gotta be one of the top for me
Anytime the player has a big ""secret"" they're waiting to reveal to the other players it's always so bad. And for some reason it's always mechanically obvious

[hot marlin]

Sometimes the big secret is not obvious. And when it's revealed the reaction is "Not only do I not care at all, I don't understand why this was a secret in the first place"

I knew a player like that. Obsessed with creating "surprises" for the rest of the party

My general reaction to all those surprises were "Not only do I find it uninteresting, I don't understand why your character would keep it secret"

[fair summit]

• "Group is missing a cleric / healer, so you need to play that"
• Attempts at making homebrew for specific series that requires removal of most classes and/or changing whole bunch of rules, just use another system at that point
• Blatant DMPCs

[signal estuary]

When a character’s class and background don’t mix and then the DM says he can’t implement the background bc he’d have to rewrite his campaign

[woven flint]

I actually don't mind the first as much here lol

Well, playing a healer, lmao

[fair summit]

I also enjoy playing a support/healer, but any game where I find this requirement is something I'll definitely avoid

[hot marlin]

Healers are really not required in D&D anyways.

Just get potions of healing to stabilize downed PCs, and you'll be fine

[woven flint]

Ohhh, I get you, yeah I agree

[hot marlin]

And Song of Rest is a better healing feature than the entirety of the cleric class

[woven flint]

"We need this" is just a general avoidance, honestly

You don't really NEED anything in particular to make a party work, some things just make things better

[woven flint]

Looks at new Prayer of Healing

[fair summit]

Heck, my current party I'm about to start a new campaign with is all spellcasters and a rogue, so basically no martial or frontline, everyone aware of this and fine 😛

[hot marlin]

OK yeah, prayer of healing.

[woven flint]

New prayer of Healing, especially with Divine Intervention action cast is godly

Literally a short rest in the middle of combat

Just gotta position carefully >->

[lean lark]

Players who play games during sessions.

Like in the middle of combat and theyre playing something else, when it gets to their turn they dont know what they're doing

[woven flint]

Oh,
Playing the only martial in a party of casters

Not because I feel weak, I just like having a fellow non-magic user to vibe with lmao

Though, my least magical character right now is my Thief Rogue, and.. well, he can use spell scrolls lol

I mean, I guess you could consider my Dragonborn Fighter too, but he has a gnarly ass breath weapon, so... I consider him magical! Lol

[prime pewter]

Yall I'm so happy rn

I just got gifted some art of my dnd oc

(It was on reddit, gimmie as sec I'll share it)

[bronze wave]

Not a big fan of limiting stuff like that

[unborn lotus]

This sounds like an online problem 😞

[lean lark]

Yeah, some of us live in areas where the closest LGS is 2 hours away and there arent any groups in town

[humble cairn]

People who use "it's what my character would do" to excuse grossness like racism, a type of assault I can't mention due to the filter, and generally being a jerk.

[prime pewter]

(The dnd oc in questions patron is literally Jarerth from Labyrinth. It'll be a fun time)

[woven flint]

Heavy agree

[prime pewter]

Hes a warlock btw

[scenic valley]

I just had the dummies/funnyist character idea

[prime pewter]

Out of game arguing. I have some trauma related around it and have no patience for it

[lean lark]

A great counter-argument against those types of players: "If your character is a jerk, then why would anyone else in the party want to travel with him? Leaving him behind is just what our characters would do"

[prime pewter]

Oh also

[humble cairn]

This is one reason I prefer my players to make characters at Session 0 instead of before, the whole table should consent to a character before it is allowed in play.

[unborn lotus]

For sure, I kicked a player from a game recently because he had a bad take about 2024 and I got in a fight with him 🤣
It was pretty small potatoes but we'd only just met and I was ultimately like "eh I'd rather just be done with you"

[hot gate]

Mhm. This is why it can be great to set up general expectations in a session 0 and why I like that the Player's Handbook points out that you should talk to your DM if you want to play an evil character.

[scenic valley]

I just had the dummies/funnyist character idea

[unborn lotus]

Even though he was a good enough player in the actual game... Having any sort of fight in the group chat ends the group unless you know eachother irl

[prime pewter]

When one member of the party gets to do a duel or something, and no one else is allowed to participate. Had this happen once with a new dm (not their fault, still friends with them) and a self proclaimed veteran (no longer friends) where they took up an entire session dueling a dragon, leveled up several times from it, and then got annoyed when the dm finally put their foot down and said they had to wait for the rest of the party to catch up

[lean lark]

Ahh yeah, that is a bit of a beginner mistake

[prime pewter]

In a current game im in, one party member is gonna duel a werewolf pack leader, for reasons above, I'm a bit nervous

[hot gate]

Turns out experience doesn't really matter if you're experienced in the things the rest of the group doesn't care about.

[prime pewter]

Yea

[lean lark]

PC or NPC?

[fringe ledge]

fellow dms, do you guys use the optional flanking rule? I want to use it for my game, but feel like it cheapen a lot of class feature and spell that would also give advantage on attack role. How do i change this a bit so it reward positioning while also not cheapen other feat, features and spells? Im thinking of making it give a +1 or +2 instead of an advantage to attack roll.

[unborn lotus]

This just shouldn't be allowed.
You should make up an in character reason to join them or let it happen off screen and be a backstory event

[lean lark]

Experienced in power-gaming

[scenic valley]

Pc

[unborn lotus]

The party fighting eachother's battles could be a good character moment and turn a potential pitfall into a party growth

[hot gate]

There are so many different way of gaining advantage that I find flanking to be overkill. I tried it, but we're not using it in the group anymore.

Most times people forget about it and only remember when the monsters start using it against them.

[lean lark]

I once talked to a guy who bragged he made the DM break their table rule of not killing PCs because he explicitly made his character as broken as possible to exploit the game

[unborn lotus]

And definitely Async levelling should just never happen unless it was super explicitly agreed on by everyone

[prime pewter]

It'll probably be fine, we have two dms. I don't wanna steal their thunder. Our characters have a bit of an in character rivalry and I don't really wanna worsen it

[bronze wave]

I think the 2014 vers of flanking gives a +2 I forgot tbh but that’s what I do. I think it’s a something that encourages rp and thinking in dnd tho instead of just run up and attack

[hot gate]

That brag alone would disqualify anyone from playing at my table.

[prime pewter]

Though maybe I could try, saying something like "you really thought you'd be the only one to have a party thrown in their favor?"

[hot gate]

It gives advantage, the +2 is a community rule. Not a bad one, mind.

[lean lark]

Never actually played with the guy, he was a supervisor at a grocery store I worked at.

He would get in trouble sometimes for instructing people who weren't in his department and also was hated by most people for being a micromanager who went on power trips

[scenic valley]

What if thare was a guy who said hes the greatest archer of all time but he really can't shot for any thing and he has a speed power so he just to shoot an arrow and then just grab the arrow them garbs into them and then runs back before , like the human eye has time to register it

[bronze wave]

Idk how that would work how is he so fast

[hot gate]

Sounds like a great anime idea, but not really something fitting for D&D.

[bronze wave]

I’ll be real it’s a funny idea kinda? It also sounds like an idea that should never be played

Also why would they lie about it lol

[fringe ledge]

i thought 2014's flank also give advantage

[bronze wave]

It does it seems the +2 is a community rule someone said and that’s smth I go by

[lean lark]

It sounds like a funny character for a story, mechanically I dont think it works in D&D

[scenic valley]

Yeah , this is what my brain comes up with at two am when i'm running on nothing , but a ghost

[fringe ledge]

Yeah i probably go with +2 one rather than advantage. Thanks!

[lean lark]

I get that. I made my next BBEG Elvis Presley

[scenic valley]

You're cool im adding you

[bronze wave]

I had a player one time try playing sans

It was horrible and ever since that day I never let anyone rp an existing char.

Bad bad memories

[dark pewter]

It's really difficult to convert an existing character from other media to D&D in a way that's satisfying and fun for the table

[lean lark]

Yeah, I think existing characters tend to work best as NPCs, not fully main characters

[bronze wave]

Idk if I like either both sounds horrible lol

Bc that other char prob isn’t fitting in your campaign and your doing a lot to make it work.

It’s also just less creative

[lean lark]

It really depends on who the character is and how it's used in the setting

[dark pewter]

It's definitely not impossible, but it's very difficult and requires care

[bronze wave]

Idk if I’d ever seen ti work

Inspired chars? Go for it go crazy but direct? Ehh

[lean lark]

It also works better with characters taken more seriously.

As opposed to Sans, who is a meme character

[bronze wave]

The guy def played him like a meme char which is wild bc sans most iconic moment is his serious moment

I know sans would not be nearly as popular without it lol

[lean lark]

I think there's a massive disparity between a player making Sans

And an Elvis mob boss who casts spells reflavored as actual songs

[bronze wave]

So even HE has a serious moment and it’s his defining moment

[bronze wave]

Idk if I see it, but that’s the beauty of dnd. We each can do our own things

[dark pewter]

Inspired characters tend to work better, for sure. A snarky, acrobatic worshipper of Eilistraee who gets quippy in combat is way more interesting than a direct copy of Peter Parker

[lean lark]

Well, the setting for my world is also a 1920s-50s fantasy Chicago with mafia and mobs

So it's definitely time specific

[bronze wave]

Ok that works a bit more then

[dark pewter]

Yeah, the setting absolutely matters for how a character is integrated

[lean lark]

You wouldnt use that enemy in a high fantasy medieval world for sure

But in a world with actual firearms and a more industrial setting, it fits thematically

Again though, to work as a BBEG he has to also be able to be taken seriously.

If he's portrayed as a meme character it becomes boring and uninspired

[fringe ledge]

as dm, i often advice my player rather than converting, better make a character that are "heavily inspired by" an existing character. That would allow them to still "roleplay" as that character but still swing a bit diffrently as the campaign goes since its an entirely different character (albeit go low its the same one)

[dark pewter]

Exactly! If you convert a character over one-to-one, especially in a setting that doesn't match their media of origin, it's often clunky at best and unfulfilling for everyone at worst

[lean lark]

Yeah, that's also why I think inspired characters work better as NPCs, as DMs know the world and setting and how to make it blend as the narrator

[fringe ledge]

say rather than tony stark the ironman, i would help them make a Antonio Spark (can go by Toni Spark for short), the Armorer Artificer

[lean lark]

Instead of wolverine, do you make them play huge jacked man?

[fringe ledge]

a human wild heart barbarian named Man, huge and jacked.

[lean lark]

Half human half tabaxi so they can use the claw unarmed strikes

[fringe ledge]

sometimes, a paladin that never use weapon and only use a magic Shield of Returning mainly known as Captain Greyhawk

[lean lark]

A tempest cleric that uses a thunder hammer of returning

[fringe ledge]

Who backstory was he put to stasis slumber by an evil lich for hundreds of year

An arcane archer fighter named Flint Farton who was a former royal's secret service

[lean lark]

Captain Ageadren

[lean lark]

A human assassin rogue named Nat a'shaa Roamin off

[fringe ledge]

For me, there's a lot more fun making an inspired character since you can have fun with the whole table making up backstory that are almost similar to the intended character and put a twist here and there or make up some funny stuffs with them 🤣 rather than converting and staying 1:1

both as dm and player

[dark pewter]

I told my GM for Out of the Abyss that that Eilistraee character was going to be my backup if my Druid died, and he loved the concept

It's definitely more fun to pay homage and twist a backstory in a fun way

[fringe ledge]

people expect Nat to have traggic backstory and shi, just to be revealed she actually still have a happy family waiting for her back at home and on one arc, they actually visit Nat's home and got served tea and biscuits

[lean lark]

Yeah, there's definitely a difference between taking inspiration for a character and developing them fully, and just copy/pasting a meme

[lean lark]

She's the only character in the party with both parents still alive, the biggest plot twist

[timid current]

you know Marvel has their own rpg that's pretty cool and can give you that "playing a character someone else wrote" vibe a little better

[fringe ledge]

the party never knew why she had less money than them, to be revealed because she send her parent money every week or so and didnt use it to buy or do shady stuffs like what they imagine

[fringe ledge]

i read the book, but never really had anyone to play with

sorry for the ping, forgot to turn it off before sending (muscle memory to press enter as quickly as possible)

[lean lark]

It's honestly difficult to find people for new RPGs

[fringe ledge]

true that

[still plover]

Try the Discord or community forums for the developers, or post up on Roll20.

[fringe ledge]

any link to the MMRPG seem to be dead, or not working. Havent try roll20 yet. Tho i feel like MMRPG look like a fun system to use for a west-march style game rather than a normal campaign style. So a bit surprised there were not a lot of people doing it

[lean lark]

Yeah, a lot of discords tend to die out or not be very active if the game isn't super popular

[cedar thunder]

Heyy there good morning, sorry I'm not the best with discord lol what is the best channel to try to find a dm/group for dnd campains?

[lean lark]

#find-a-game has the rules for making your own post, otherwise, you can scroll #looking-for-players for a group that you think seems like a good fight

[exotic dagger]

Testing that I did the phone verification properly.

[lean lark]

It appears so

[knotty crow]

I joined this server not too long ago but I haven't rlly been checking it out but is there any good channels / websites for making characters ;-;

[humble cairn]

Yes, #character-discussion is good for the concept, backstory, and general build. #optimization would be where to go if you wanted to mechanically overclock the character.

[knotty crow]

:p

alright then

thx

[exotic dagger]

Thank you! Also, it seems as though this server is so big it doesn't want to update in real time for me. That's going to be a problem for actually discussing stuff here... Is anyone else having this problem?

[reef tundra]

Nope

[lean lark]

I'm not, it may be a signal issue on your end

[exotic dagger]

Okay, I'll just reload a few more times. I'm hoping it's just a temporary problem on my end.

[lean lark]

I just finished writing a summary for my next campaign. Getting the players hopefully excited

[lean lark]

Hopefully

[misty gale]

could i get some help from a Project moon fan or some advice with trying to make this character building sheet to help my players make a character for this Project moon esc homebrew im trying to make

[still plover]

Have you made mechanical changes (ability scores, skill list, other) or are you just looking for a custom design that says Moon instead of D&D?

[misty gale]

something honestly, could i send you what I've done so far?

[elder onyx]

thoughts on rolling initiative at the start of a session so battles for more seemless and re-reolling after battles

[worn lagoon]

not a fan

but I use the dndbeyond encounter tracker which rolls initiative for and then sorts everyone in one click so

[misty gale]

not a fan

[elder onyx]

how come? (dont plan on running it just an idea that popped up)

[dapper wigeon]

hi for some reason after I removed all my spells it wont let me see primal savagery anymore on druid, does anyone know what might have caused this?

[worn lagoon]

you'll also still have to roll initiative for every non-pc so it won't save that much time, and it will be like assuming the pc will have the same reaction speed to every encounter

[lean lark]

That honestly seems more difficult to remember, especially if the combat doesnt happen until a few hours in.

It feels easier to just roll it in the moment as it would be less likely to be forgotten

[worn lagoon]

there are also already solutions to streamline this process, like the one i mentioned

[lean lark]

Yeah, pretty much every VTT has a turn order tracker of some sort

[worn lagoon]

dndbeyond's "my encounters" is really good, it lets you mass-roll initiative

[dapper wigeon]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/159316117 my character is here, plz ping me if you answer

[drifting cobalt]

Fellas

[worn lagoon]

waddup

[lean lark]

Howdy

[shadow lodge]

Is it just me or the spell Lightning Arrow is pretty bad for a 3rd level spell? It removes your normal ranged attack damage and replaces with a 4d8 +2d8 on area which is really low for that level

[hot marlin]

Also your dex modifier and other flat damage you may have

Which is indeed pretty low for that level.

[reef tundra]

I am a Ranger lover, but I agree

-# My forest angels deserve better

[hot marlin]

Well, it is higher damage than a fireball, but in a lower area

[shadow lodge]

It does? It should also keep your main damage and add the 4d8, to be good in my opinion

[hot marlin]

Essentially, lightning arrow is 6d8+dex modifier+whatever else you usually add to your arrow damage.

The average of 6d8 is 27. A fireball is 8d6, its average is 28. But fireball stops at 8d6, while lightning arrow allows you to add your dex modifier and other stuff, which means that your average damage should always be higher than fireball.

So it is actually slightly better than fireball in situations where you're either aiming for a single foe.

Moreover, contrary to fireball, it can crit. In that case, your damage will be 8d8+dex+whatever+2d8

[lean lark]

Where does the spell state it does dex damage too?

[hot marlin]

Moreover lightning is less resisted than fire.

[shadow lodge]

Does the main target also take the splash 2d8 damage?

[hot marlin]

Yes. It is within 10 feet of itself.

[shadow lodge]

Less radius though

[hot marlin]

It does not need to. It states it does that 4d8 "instead of the weapon's normal damage". Assuming a longbow, the weapon's normal damage is the 1d8 of a bow.

Lightning arrow replaces the weapon's normal damage with that 4d8. But it does not replace the other normal rules. This is still a ranged weapon attack, to which you add your dex modifier and magical bonus or whatever

[hot marlin]

Indeed. It's a spell best used to snipe a single big target surrounded by minions with lower HP.

[lean lark]

Is that 2014? I think it changed for 2024 then.

[hot marlin]

I did open the 2014 version, let me check the 2024.

Oh yeah, you're right. 2024 changes the wording, making it a much, much worse spell

[lean lark]

"Instead of taking any damage or other effects from the attack, the target takes 4d8 Lightning damage on a hit or half as much damage on a miss."

This is from the 2024 phb

Page 292

[hot marlin]

Yeah, found it. 2024 version is trash.

[small plume]

Out of curiosity, does anyone actually run 2024?

[glass granite]

I do

[lean lark]

I do

[hot marlin]

So, in conclusion:
2014 lightning arrow is an above average spell, excellent for sniping a single target, especially on a dedicated archer, and good at eliminating its bodyguards, especially if it's the sort that surrounds itself with its allies. It deals more damage than a fireball with a less resisted damage type in exchange for a lower area of effect.

2024 lightning arrow is trash and not worth its slot.

Not sure why they would nerf a ranger spell of all things though

[small plume]

How does it play? Does it hold up to 2014, or is it give and take? What do you guys prefer about it?

[lean lark]

I'll probably still run 2024 but let players opt for the 2014 version of the spell.

Since the editions can be mixed and matched

[glass granite]

I prefer it to 2014. The classes just feel stronger

[hot marlin]

I prefer the monster design, the new monster manual and some choices for some classes. For everything else I prefer 2014.

[lean lark]

I prefer the changes to backgrounds, also they improved monk and a few other classes to be a little stronger

[hot marlin]

All in all, I think 2014 was the better version

But I am in the minority here

[lean lark]

I think 2014 did quite a few spells better

[hot marlin]

Which ones?

[lean lark]

Sleep

[small plume]

I feel like I'd like some parts of it if I tried to run it but 2014 5e is what I know and that's what I have all the materials for.

That and my dad's 2e AD&D stuff which is what I started with

[opaque osprey]

Hello people so glad to join this community 🙂

[small plume]

Welcome!

[covert root]

Having used both and endured the unnecessarily tough period of trying to do a 2024 campaign with nothing but the 2024 Basic Rules (while waiting for the proper books to release), I definitely prefer 2024 overall. It just flows better to me, and it was easy for the newbies who joined my table to pick up and roll with.

[lean lark]

I will say I'm a fan of 2024 making ability modifier increases based on backgrounds instead of species, I think it allows for more customization in character creation without sacrificing a more optimized build.

[lean lark]

Welcome. Will we be getting any meatballs later?

[opaque osprey]

Possible I might need more context lol

[covert root]

Grilled rothé steak and ulaver wine, anyone?

[lean lark]

The movie cloudy with a chance of meatballs, just making a reference since your name is cloudy

[covert root]

For the joke or for D&D in general?

[opaque osprey]

Quick

[hot marlin]

Yeah, this may sound strange... But I prefered the lack of customization.

[covert root]

I'm the quick, you're the—

[hot marlin]

To me more customization when it comes to D&D is not desirable. In other games perhaps, but not in D&D.

[glass granite]

Hi the quick, I’m Nugget

[hot marlin]

Nugget, I am on my hands and knees begging you to find a new joke

[glass granite]

Fine

[opaque osprey]

I’m looking for a party! been watching dnd for a long time and my friends tend to ditch after a few levels and I wanna get immersed

[covert root]

That seems a rather taboo opinion in a game where everyone's roleplaying a variety of different archetypes. Would it not be more condusive to the freedom players seek by giving them more options?

[lean lark]

Hi on my hands and knees begging you to find a new joke, I'm Zephyr

[covert root]

#looking-for-players

[hot marlin]

I will stab you

You monster

[opaque osprey]

Just saying why I am here but I’m just chillin to ask questions

[covert root]

They are, in fact, a humanoid creature.

[lean lark]

Any particular questions that come to mind?

[small plume]

Thoughts on 'evil' campaigns where the PCs are villains or at least evil aligned?

[hot marlin]

See, I think freedom without constraints is detrimental to the game. People seek freedom, but I do not think the game should grant it.

[opaque osprey]

Is a monk character a good example to put forward to a new possible party?

[glass granite]

Monk is great

[lean lark]

It only works if the players are willing to cooperate and are all aware in advance.

It's more challenging to run and requires a lot of collaboration to go right

[olive glen]

mee too :)) (i play too much bg3 😔)

[covert root]

While I agree that limitations are important, I don't see at any point where 2024 just lets you go wild with abandon. We have rules, we have expectations.

[lean lark]

Which edition are you playing?

2024 monk, is good, 2014 monk is fun but considered one of the weakest classes

[opaque osprey]

New most likely

[covert root]

The better question is, "Is it fun?"

I'd say it is, especially if you're tossing creatures around like you're Baki.

[hot marlin]

Absolutely, but I really do think that more limitations are better at character creation. Creativity works best the more it's constricted.

[opaque osprey]

I think it’s fun but I’m more wondering if it would be difficult to a dm who already has a party and needs to get another player

[lean lark]

Being forced to play though a specific species in order to be a more optimized character feels rather... constricting.

It's even worse in older editions where some species gave automatic negatives to some stats

[hot marlin]

Yes it is constricting. Which is what I like about it.

[covert root]

Do people not already do that? Like telling someone who insists on being Jinwoo that they're Level 2, don't even have a subclass, and are in the beginning of developing their great tale for boasting?

[lean lark]

Ehh, that is how we wind up with the classic orc barbarian, tiefling rogue, etc.

Because they have to either play what the system says is more beneficial or intentionally weaken their character to play what they really want

Also backgrounds determining modifiers just makes more logical sense.

Your experience dictates your skills more than what youre born as

[hot marlin]

There is nothing wrong with weakening their character a bit at the beginning. Especially considering that those earlier limitations will quickly be forgotten.

[hot marlin]

If we're going for what makes sense, it should be a bit of both. Certainly, experience is important. But being born as a horse makes you better at pulling a carriage than being born as a rabbit.

And the strongest rabbit in the world is still weaker than the weakest horse

[lean lark]

Maybe for animals, but the species in dnd are more based around humans than animals

[hot marlin]

But honestly, the background thing is not what I care the most about. It is... Fine, I suppose. Though I preferred the solution of just saying "everybody gets a +2 and a +1, put it wherever"

[covert root]

For the most part, the usual archetypes people like are already manageable to develop in the game, regardless of the version people play. Don't really see how any of it feels limiting/not limiting either way.

[shadow lodge]

So if I've interpreted as I should, the 2024 version of Lightning arrow is worse because it doesn't add the dexterity modifier...

[worn lagoon]

i'd have to play dragonborn paladins and nothing else if species were strict about +2 str +1 chr

[lean lark]

Yes

[worn lagoon]

otherwise i'd feel awful having 15 int as a wizard

[hot marlin]

Much worse. The spell was nerfed to oblivion, it's not worth taking.

[lean lark]

Yeah, also in older editions orcs had a -2 to charisma, so no playing sorcerer, bard, warlock, or paladin

[worn lagoon]

yikes what the hell

[covert root]

Mechanically, it feels quite relaxing to play whichever species and get something out of it.

[hidden spindle]

Lightning Arrow could be on an Enspelled Weapon

[hot marlin]

The only good thing about 2024 Lightning Arrow is that it's instant and cast as a bonus action which you take immediately after hitting.

[hidden spindle]

Hitting or missing

[hot marlin]

Hitting or missing, yes.

I suppose someone thought that this change made it worth the nerf but... No.

[lean lark]

Yeah, it does half damage on a miss now

[glass granite]

I personally prefer having the options, but the notion that restriction breeds creativity is perfectly valid. I don’t have particularly strong opinions on which version is better, though I like 2024 because my favourite class is stronger, and it’s just also the one I learnt.

[hot marlin]

This change is not a meaningful buff to lightning arrow. Not strong enough to justify the nerf at least

[lean lark]

Ehhh. The issue is that certain restrictions also force players to either nerf their own characters or play a particular species/class. Which definitely limits creativity more than anything since the players are pressured into a choice

[glass granite]

The nerfs aren’t particularly major tbh

Like, they’re noticeable

[lean lark]

Depends on the edition. 3.5 half orcs was -2 to charisma.

That's a massive difference between a 16 and a 14

[glass granite]

But at least in the games I play the difference is usually able to be fixed relatively quickly

[glass granite]

Sure, but are we not talking about 2014 and 2024?

[lean lark]

I thought we were talking about the game as a whole

[hidden spindle]

This is why I prefer both Standard Array & taking one of the original '24 backgrounds with their stats distribution & origin feat

I may be in the minority.

[glass granite]

I thought we were just discussing 5e

[covert root]

I second this. While having a clear line of finite options can compel others to make the most of what little they have, people who understand the options and have a greater amount to choose from can really shine in 2024.

[hot marlin]

But to be fair, my biggest gripe with 2024 is that I just don't like the changes to many classes and spells.

The player-facing options are the ones I dislike. But damn do I like what they did with some of the monsters.

[stark tundra]

Thank you incubus

[lean lark]

So do you run 2014 phb with 2024 monster manual?

[hot marlin]

Yes essentially.

[glass granite]

Personally I like the changes, for the most part

[hot marlin]

And MCDM's Flee Mortals. And the three Tome of Beasts and the Creature Codex.

[hidden spindle]

They are some things I didn't like what they did with monsters: Looking at specific monster typing just to nerf Moon Druid

Like Giant Animals are Celestials. Like bro

[hot marlin]

All in all it has often been said that 2024 "raised the floor and lowered the ceiling" which is honestly the opposite direction I think they should have gone for

[covert root]

As a Moon Druid enjoyer, I concur.

[hot marlin]

Uh what? I have the 2025 Monster Manual right in front of my eyes, the giant animals are all still beasts.

[reef tundra]

Look at giant owl

Not all of them are but I know a few have been made into celestials

[hot marlin]

Oh yeah you're right. Giant Owl, Eagle and Elk are celestials.

That is very dumb indeed

[burnt valley]

just let druids have a wildshape option thats strong dawg 😭

[covert root]

It's literally the whole point of Moon Druid. Just let me have this, godsdamn it.

[hot marlin]

I don't get it. The Giant Boar is clearly stronger than the Giant Elk. Yet the Giant Elk is a celestial

What is the logic here?

[hidden spindle]

Flying Snake too

[burnt valley]

is it the whole "omfg Sneak Attack is too strong!!!!1111"

[covert root]

Either way, I like quacking, hissing, and howling my way through problems, so it'll be fine. The near-infinite temp health tanking is lovely.

[hot marlin]

Well okay, Flying Snake as a monstrosity I can accept

[hidden spindle]

It was a Tiny Beast, but yeah. It was like a direct, very intentional design change

[burnt valley]

arent druids in general also stuck to very low CR beasts?

[lean lark]

Yeah

[covert root]

Wild Shapes are just...fuel for some of the other subclasses.

[hot marlin]

Anyways this kind of supports my point: Higher floor and lower ceiling. Which I think was a bad move

[burnt valley]

they should just raise the ceiling instead for all classes

[hot marlin]

It's often said that 2024 monk is stronger for example, which is not quite true.

At lower level, the monk is stronger. At high level, it lost some of the strongest features that were in the game

[lean lark]

They should make everything weaker

[hidden spindle]

Lv1 Games are intense

[covert root]

Nothing like getting downed by a goblin on the first battle of the first session.

[burnt valley]

They would love Call of Cthulhu

[hidden spindle]

Especially an ambush off of a road

[lean lark]

While I was still running 2014 I had a player get downed in 1 turn by 2 ice Mephits at level 4

[hot marlin]

Well played goblins are absolute menaces, I love it.

[covert root]

Shye, why are you awakening all my past newb trauma? I'm a wizard.

[hidden spindle]

They're mine too

[hot marlin]

Always avoid melee, stay at range, focus one person at a time. Disengage and run and hide.

[lean lark]

The biggest menace any of the players have encountered has been a poltergeist.

It actually made them run away and abandon a building because they could not find a way to beat it

[burnt valley]

Goblins that know how to focus fire and uses ranged attacks are insane

[lean lark]

dies from past trauma damage

[hot marlin]

Where I come from, that's every goblin.

[covert root]

Yeah, the ambushes are mean. Had goblins duckin', dodgin', and ragebaitin' the Level 8 party when there was only 6 of 'em. Trolled them for 3 hours of battle.

[burnt valley]

T1 I understand, but T2? How?

[covert root]

Tall grass, little goblins, a lot of guesstimating and wasting spells on the wrong spot. The druid was seething.

[lean lark]

I should add a gang of goblins to my next campaign.

I'm already running a giff mob war

[burnt valley]

Goddamn

[covert root]

I think people anticipate straightforward battles too much, but enemies drawing things out, constantly retreating and repositioning can really throw off a party's battle rhythm.

There's a lot that can be done without really making any attack rolls. The goblins just misled with diversions, drew their attention across the field. Baited them into wasting their good damage spells, then shot their butts with arrows little by little.

[lean lark]

Yeah, repositioning during the battles can catch the players off guard. Retreating, hiding, strategizing, is not aomething most players are used to enemies doing

[gray garden]

I’m not gonna lie dnd really did try and nerf magic and then they end up making something like Sylune's Viper and then you just gotta cry

[covert root]

It's pretty fun, yeah.

[gray garden]

I’m also not a fan of “if monster hits apply status effect here”

Like the new cloud giant can be devastating

[lean lark]

I do think monsters needed a bit of a buff, a lot of people have mentioned issues with players being a lot stronger than the enemies at the appropriate CR rating

[covert root]

A handful of my players whine about that, yeah. The quasit just poisoning annoyed the hell out of the dwarf. "How can I resist what doesn't even have a SAVE!?!"

[gray garden]

Here’s the neat part you can’t

[burnt valley]

its not even 'can', its 'is', three cloud giants can tpk the whole party

[covert root]

I guess it makes sense in its own; the poison's that potent, just that it requires direct application.

[covert root]

For sure. I have a big table; I have to be really crafty to make meaningful challenges if I don't want to trap myself to high CR monsters.

[gray garden]

True even the new lich got a buff that it’s paralyzing hit now auto inflicts it instead of it being a save

[burnt valley]

melee keeps getting lul'd

[lean lark]

I will say the monsters thougj definitely feel a little out of whack.

Like some lower CR monsters are much harder battles than higher CR ones

[covert root]

As a lich enjoyer, I'm fine with this.

[gray garden]

“Hey guys we’re offering buffs to melee by giving you weapon mastery’s”

[covert root]

Half the time, my players forget they even have those.

[burnt valley]

They also buffed its initiative, so they are basically guaranteed to go first

[lean lark]

My new campaign is going to have a lich mob boss with an undead mafia

[gray garden]

“Also screw you hears 90 + monsters auto inflect status”

[covert root]

I threw a lich at my Level 5 party, to be honest.

And by threw, I meant it was an avenue they didn't have to take at all but did it anyway.

[burnt valley]

lmao melee lul also a direct ranged weapon buff

[gray garden]

Insane work

[severe rampart]

"you disrespect me... you disrespect my grandmama"

[proven lotus]

Tarrasque is always the answer

[burnt valley]

Did the Lich lose

[lean lark]

"You come here, on the day of my daughter's resurrection..."

[burnt valley]

True, very true

[gray garden]

Is the tarrasque immune to poison?

[covert root]

Yes.

[gray garden]

Thank god

[burnt valley]

It isnt immune to Thunder unfortunately

[gray garden]

No

[covert root]

If I can't poison you, I'll just be really, obnoxiously loud to the point it hurts.

[gray garden]

Why would it be immune to posion

[burnt valley]

TP'd to cloud giant to perpetually stunlock the Tarrasque

[covert root]

Why not?

[gray garden]

Yeah a cloud giant vs a tarrasque the cloud giant would win due to auto incapacitation

[covert root]

Poison Immunity isn't that unheard of.

[gray garden]

I meant the giant monster being immune to thunder

Even if it was it could still be stunned locked into oblivion

[lean lark]

The terrasque is very godzilla inspired, and godzilla was made from nuclear radiation, so I can understand the reasoning for immunity to poison

[gray garden]

The new lich could easily kill the over sized lizard as well

Legendary resistance can only do so much in the face of auto conditions

[lean lark]

Maybe it's just me personally, but I think the Lich should be generally the most powerful monster in the game.

But I'm also a big fan of liches

[burnt valley]

Oh hey a reflavouring that's actually pretty cool

[humble cairn]

I'm quite happy with higher floor lower ceiling, personally.

[gray garden]

What about the aspects

[burnt valley]

They can auto-succeed on a "Try Not To Cry" save at least

[gray garden]

Liches are still somewhat mortal only one being not is venca himself

[lean lark]

Fair, I just dont really care for the aspects

[burnt valley]

Szass Tam is the strongest Lich

[gray garden]

Vecna is RIGHT THERE MAN

[proven lotus]

Tarrasque as Lich?!

[lean lark]

False hydralich when?

[proven lotus]

Lichrasque

[covert root]

Don't you lie to me.

[burnt valley]

His statblock on Eve of Ruin is underwhelming

[gray garden]

he was literally the first lich and ascended to not only god hood but became a greater god

[burnt valley]

I meant mechanically

mb

[gray garden]

If you read about it it literally says that it’s the vecna before he ascended to god hood and lost his eye and hand

Since he can time travel

[burnt valley]

Monster idea: Lich riding an Undead Tarrasque with a Sphere of Annihilation orbiting around it

[lean lark]

A walking form of death with a side of death

[gray garden]

Sphere of annihilation is also pretty boring

[proven lotus]

Sounds like a great fight for a lvl 3 Party

[gray garden]

It got buffed in the new version at least

[burnt valley]

Sphere of Annihilation is literally anti-Artificer and martials

[gray garden]

What if there’s no artificers

[burnt valley]

(It can destroy magic items below Artifact tier and martials are reliant on said magic items to keep up in higher tiers)

[lean lark]

A level 1 party of all wizards

[gray garden]

Only if they fail a dex save

[burnt valley]

True and fishable

[gray garden]

Which isn’t all that high

[covert root]

Pain and suffering. Please don't.

[gray garden]

Dc 13 i think it was

[reef tundra]

Sounds like a buffet

[visual valve]

Hellllooo

[gray garden]

A lot of “legendary items” don’t deserve the title

[burnt valley]

Nope, its auto 8d10 when passing through anything assuming it doesnt get disintegrated instantly

[gray garden]

It’s a dex save.,

[burnt valley]

Fr? lemme double check

[lean lark]

There is one surefire way to beat any enemy in d&d

[glass granite]

Be the DM

[lean lark]

2 bags of holding, place one inside of the other

Destroy the world

[opal wharf]

Very small world

[gray garden]

DC 19 Dexterity saving throw or be touched by it, taking 8d10 Force damage.

[burnt valley]

Oh yeah it is, you can still proc the save constantly though

Move the sphere in and out of the player space

[gray garden]

erm acutlly it would just make a portal to the astrel plane

[glass granite]

So any enemy that can get from the astral plane to you is still fine

[burnt valley]

Be a Lvl 17 Wizard with 1 month of prep

[gray garden]

1 it needs an action unless you have the talisman of the sphere

[lean lark]

But the enemy would be defeated still

[burnt valley]

Acererak has it

[gray garden]

the enemy who has plane shift:

[covert root]

The wizard who has a plan (that isn't Fireball):

[glass granite]

Not if the enemy can cross back to the physical plane

[gray garden]

people underestimate how easy cross from plane to plane

[lean lark]

Counterspell

[burnt valley]

not even an option anymore in 2024

[gray garden]

your not in the plane so you cant counter spell what you cant see

[lean lark]

Whomever combines the bags would get sucked in with the enemy

[gray garden]

true but what stops them from having subtle spell

[reef tundra]

Not being a sorcerer

[glass granite]

Or, like, knocking you out before.

[lean lark]

What monster has subtle spell in 5e?

[glass granite]

The original question was “any enemy”.

[lean lark]

Just say no. The enemy legally cannot knock you out without your permission

[reef tundra]

I feel like if it’s an enemy that you consider the only way to beat them is taking them to the astral plane, then I’d say they’re more than capable of kicking your ass

[glass granite]

Technically, homebrew counts

[reef tundra]

Understandable

[glass granite]

Help, they casted silence and I can’t say no

[gray garden]

as the dm you can give any monster anything

[reef tundra]

They’re pure evil D:

[gray garden]

like i gave a few goblin brutes action surge

[lean lark]

That leans into homebrew

[lean lark]

You should've said no to silence

[glass granite]

Last I checked, “any enemy” still includes homebrew

[gray garden]

the dmg legit say word for word you can edit monster stat blocks as you see fit

[glass granite]

How? I can’t speak 😭

[gray garden]

so giving a monster the ability to use "action surge" isnt too wild since it kinda already exist for certain monsters

[reef copper]

Totaly agree but weirdly enough i found it to be a hot take here. I got a lot of clap back for discussion on the same subject before

[gray garden]

me when i use slivery barbs with my wizard monster stat block:

[reef copper]

Thanks for making other beings casters too :)

[gray garden]

there are plenty of cases where if the player can do it why cant the monster

[glass granite]

I’m fine with using class abilities for enemies too, though I don’t like giving them character levels

[reef copper]

For me character levels represent what a creature with a similar soul and structure can accomplish with lucky genetics and training

[gray garden]

not character levels just class abilites like if i have a monk stat block why cant they also use deflect attacks

[worn lagoon]

i once made an enemy sorcerer have metamagic, but better

[reef copper]

Draconic spellcasting?

[worn lagoon]

no

[lean lark]

Ive given my bbeg vicious mockery

[worn lagoon]

she just had flat-out better versions of existing metamagics, because why not

[gray garden]

your face is flat

[reef copper]

A fey once forced me to dance for 24 hour with extended spell metamagic. He could not walk after that…

[worn lagoon]

absolute cinema

[undone rain]

Hey i got a question which race lives the longest

[worn lagoon]

time dragons live indefinitely

[rough basalt]

for playable races, its a bit messy

[gray garden]

vampires also live indefinitely

[worn lagoon]

yeah, a lot of things live indefinitely it seems

[undone rain]

Well if we talking mortals how about that

[rough basalt]

Drow then, if we're talking flesh beings that can die of old age

[gray garden]

if you want a cap then elves with most of them living around 750 years

[undone rain]

Daaaaamn

[gray garden]

i would say dhampiers as well but they can live an undertmined amount of years as well

[rough basalt]

Drow that live to their 700s often can live to their 1000s

[undone rain]

Dang, impressive

[gray garden]

thats just elves in general

[rough basalt]

Drow especially last the longest lifespan wise

[worn lagoon]

iirc half dragons were playable in 3e and lived for twice as long as the nondragon parent, i could be wrong though

[rough basalt]

Like one of the Matrons of the Baenre family, she lived until her 2000s

[gray garden]

elf things

[worn lagoon]

drow have the means to halt aging

[undone rain]

How does one stop aging

Like a spell?

[worn lagoon]

there's one magic item they have that halves it and another that pauses it altogether, some sort of necklace

[rough basalt]

If you're Matron Baenre in this case, Lolth thinks you're based and wants you to stick around