dnd-discussion

[glass granite]

Oh they’re fairly different

[knotty pasture]

Even on this server there's like several character creation tropes

[thorn zodiac]

certified wizbarb hater

[knotty pasture]

People either want to make a comically evil character that all ties back to Bhaalist values

Or they want to go full pacifist route but it never works out

Don't forget the characters with literal disabilities too

[thorn zodiac]

what-

cant say ive seen any so far

[glass granite]

Well, I’ve had a mute character work. Just had to bend the rules a fair bit
(I was the DM. Mute PC)

[knotty pasture]

Didn't you just join and were focused on your rp idea

[thorn zodiac]

not anymore

[timid current]

there's nothing actually wrong with playing a character with a disability

[thorn zodiac]

you think a character with CIPA would bend it too much

[glass granite]

CIPA?

[knotty pasture]

Oh no that's fine, but the concepts were mostly taking it too literally

[thorn zodiac]

the thing where you cant feel pain or temperature change

[jovial shadow]

But what's right with it?

[knotty pasture]

What if my character is 100% mute, what if my character is debuffed with blindness permanently

[glass granite]

I’d be fine with that

[woven flint]

I arrive, the year is new for me now

[glass granite]

I greet the Lord of Goofy!

[thorn zodiac]

how would that change the game though

[bronze wave]

A mute char sounds like an interesting play

[knotty pasture]

It wouldn't change much

[glass granite]

Just flavour likely

[woven flint]

Nay, save thy greetings

[thorn zodiac]

theyd still take damage normally,but how would that change the way they react

[bronze wave]

Idk how that would work. Like how did the player communicate

[timid current]

someone playing what they want to play / having representation in the fantasy they're building

[glass granite]

Likely wouldn’t change much

[thorn zodiac]

isnt sign language one of the languages characters can learn

[knotty pasture]

Its not that interesting the moment people realize all the character can do is making mmmphing sounds, which works out better in text games

[glass granite]

My player just carried a notebook and knew sign language

[woven flint]

Common Sign Language, yes

[knotty pasture]

But can a party (and the PC themselves) stand mmmphing for hours without making the table annoyed

[bronze wave]

I meant for the other party did they know common sign? Did they just read the notebook? Seems hard to keep up in a full convo yk

[thorn zodiac]

so it wouldnt benefit or nerf the character in any significant way

[knotty pasture]

Flavoring is free

Whatever flavor you adapt should not change how the character works mechanically

Dnd is about playing pretend after all within reason

[glass granite]

They just narrated “Aspid scribbles quickly on his notebook and shows to the others: [message]”

[bronze wave]

Icic

[knotty pasture]

Wizards can have anger issues but they shouldn't be able to break a wall in 1 punch at level 1 as a result

[glass granite]

And for verbal components, I had the sound of arcana and void (they’re the lil hollow knight) replace it

[thorn zodiac]

fair

[tame forge]

Honestly running a barbarian who thinks they are a wizard would be really funny.

Beats people over the head with his spellbook.

Spends times in libraries, studies magic. Maybe learns some rituals, but is a brute at heart and wears his little wizard robes while running into combat with a heavy book.

[winter knot]

I cast Pummel. I cast Crush. Crap, out of spell slots. Bludgeon is a cantrip!

[tame forge]

3-5 hours

Table and game dependant

[jovial shadow]

Nothing wrong with having a Barbarian/Wizard. It's not like they are going to be casting spells while raging. I am sure players are smarter than that

[tame forge]

Didn't even think of monk.

[woven flint]

Believe it or not ...
Barbarian who thinks they're a wizard has been done... a lot

"Class that thinks they're another class" is kinda odd to me because for the most part, unless it's obvious
Wizard, Warlock, Cleric, Paladin..
I don't think many D&D characters would refer to themselves as their class lol

Like, my Fighter is a wannabe Knight, he's not gonna call himself a Fighter, because.. everyone can be a "Fighter" lol

[tame forge]

I mean each is a trope and a lifestyle beyond just a "class" with levels.

A cleric is absolutely something a character would consider themselves.

[jovial shadow]

2-3 hrs. No need to go longer, unless you just enjoy marathons

[woven flint]

Which i mentioned.

[tame forge]

Oh I see. Yeah misunderstood.

[woven flint]

Bard, Cleric, Wizard, Paladin..
MAYBE Warlock, I could see referring to themselves title-wise as their class

Because most are occupations

[tame forge]

Sorcerer is also an ironic one. Blessed by magic and shit.

They would def consider themselves a sorcerer but may not refer to it often. Or maybe they do. Depends on vanity I guess.

[woven flint]

Doesn't always have to be a blessing

[woven flint]

Realistically, I could envision a Sorcerer seeing themselves as something more akin to a wizard

Monk also makes sense because.. Monk is a literal title lol

[timid current]

cleric and monk are basically interchangeable in a lot of places

some of my favorite beers come from monks

[tame forge]

I guess I wouldn't ever consider them interchangeable but there is some overlap...

[humble cairn]

I generally play it the opposite, where the classes don't really exist in setting, with the exception perhaps of Wizard.

[cosmic roost]

No pings, please :pray:

If you see someone with “No Pings” in their name, please don’t @ that user. If you Reply to them, please turn the alert @OFF, and if you forget, a simple apology is appreciated. Thank you!

[jovial shadow]

They should be interchangeable, given the Monk began as a subclass of the Cleric

[humble cairn]

But not all monks are Monks.

[tame forge]

How does that work?

[woven flint]

Not all monk characters cobsider themselves Monks flavor wise, but for sake of ease of saying
If they're a Monk, they'd most likely say
"Ah, yes, I'm a Monk from such and such monastery."

[humble cairn]

People who fight exist but "Fighter" as a discrete package of mechanics are not a special thing that exists in the setting.

[timid current]

if someone is a paladin, they might be a particularly potent knight, or a warrior of a holy order or a "cleric" "Warrior Monk"

[tame forge]

I mean yeah thats fighter thats how it is anyways for them. How do clerics not exist in the setting, or druids?

[humble cairn]

Like druids exist in setting, but not all druids are the "Druid Class" if that makes sense, because Character Classes are a special thing for PCs.

[timid current]

clerics exist, but a given temple or church or monastary could have all kinds of different ranks that aren't "cleric"

[tame forge]

So just normal D&D?

[timid current]

which is basically "clerk" like the folks that copy down holy texts and illuminate them

[woven flint]

Cleric, Priest, Monk... ect ..

[humble cairn]

Priests and clerics and druids exist, but they are not the "Cleric Class" or the "Druid Class" because Character Class is for PCs.

[glass granite]

So not all NPC Druids would have, say, specifically only Druid spells

Am I getting that right?

[timid current]

a ranger could be a "Guide" or "Hunter" or "Soldier" or "Scout" or "First Lieutenant" or whatever

[tame forge]

Right... guess I didn't realize people didn't run it that way. Thats how I always understood D&D to work.

[woven flint]

Most likely they would if they, like most druids, get their spells from the blessings of nature

[humble cairn]

And not all magic users are going to be identifiable as sorcerers are warlocks or what have you, because NPCs don't have to abide by those rules. Maybe you have someone who gained magic through a pact with an entity, but they have metamagic-like abilities, because they aren't created with the player character rules.

[glass granite]

Jokes on you, nature in my setting includes getting Meteor Swarm!
/j

[humble cairn]

No, some people run it like the rules for Character Classes apply to all NPCs as well. That's not how I do it.

[timid current]

a wizard might be called a "magister" or "wise man" or "arcanifuge" or "weaveripper" or whatever

[glass granite]

Or “magic man”

[humble cairn]

Mage, Arcanist, Thamaturge, etc etc

[woven flint]

Warlocks would be more akin to "Cultists" but not all Warlocks ARE Cultists and not all Cultist are Warlocks...
It'd just be one of the more logistical things to call them 💀

[timid current]

yeah. or Abracadaniel. I like when class packages aren't proscriptive to the narrative. that's not to say they can't be called the things. but they don't need to be

[tame forge]

I mean that would still be a warlock..? Charactr classes are seperate sure, but that doesnt mean that what a warlock is changes.

[humble cairn]

NPCs have access to spells or spell like abilities that PCs don't because NPCs and PCs are just built differently, for different purposes, on purpose, and for good reason.

[timid current]

nobody is saying what a warlock is changes.

only that within the world, diegetically, the person may be called something different.

[tame forge]

Guess I dont understand what they are trying to argue then.

Right thats typical

[timid current]

it's not an argument. it's a description of a different way of playing

[woven flint]

They would still BE that class, but within character if they were to refer to themselves as a class they'd probably say an occupation or something over the actual class, methinks

[timid current]

nobody is saying that you have to do it that way, people are just describing the things they do/what works for them

[humble cairn]

I mean "Warlock = I made a deal with an entity" might not even be the in setting definition. Maybe it's only specifically "Warlock = I made a deal with a Fiend" and someone who made a deal with a Celestial would be considered something different.

[tame forge]

Ah I thought we were still talking about the previous discussion on NPC's or characters not thinking of themselves as a monk or a warlock.

Didnt realize we are on a unrelated tangent.

[humble cairn]

I don't play it like NPCs have character classes. Doesn't mean anyone else has to do it that way.

[timid current]

we are talking about that. we're simply saying that each game is different.

nobdoy is telling you how to run your games, only that for some of us we do it differently.

[bronze wave]

Classes are also def made with pc in mind not how a npc would play

[tame forge]

I mean yeah my point was this but also monks exist and clerics exist player class or no.

[glass granite]

Or some might have a more blurred difference between sorcerers and wizards

[tame forge]

So i guess none of anyones statements were contrary to my point.

[winter knot]

I’ve always looked at the classes as labels put on characters by other characters. Like the wizard doesn’t refer to himself as a wizard, but the commonfolk have lumped any bookish arcane character into the Wizard box. They may not even be right about the labels they give folks all the time.

[humble cairn]

A lot of monks in setting would just be monastic practitioners and probably have no skill in unarmed fighting.

[timid current]

yeah it's just conversation, nobody is trying to "win"

when you say "monk" to me, in the real world, I think of trappists making delicious beer in belgium

[glass granite]

For my settings, it’s just anyone who learned martial arts and underwent training on their discipline. And believes in a certain ideology strongly.

[humble cairn]

Yeah, not all people who live the monastic life learn how to fight. Most of them probably don't.

[timid current]

there's also how you describe things to the player, and how you describe things to the character. some people run it differently

but like ophidimancer says - in a monastery you could have "monks" that are clerics, paladins, monks... maybe even wizards and rogues and bards

[humble cairn]

Anyone who basically lives in a monastery and has sworn vows of like poverty, charity, compassion, maybe silence .. are monks. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with fighting at all.

It's understandable, but not how I like to run my games. I think it's perfectly good for PCs to be unique and special.

[woven flint]

In a oneshot, I had an Elements Monk who was trained under an Archdruid, he considers himself to be a practitioner of the Druidic arts, but he combined it with his natural martial prowess as a Tabaxi

[humble cairn]

I like it!

And in setting I think it would make perfect sense for them to be initiated into a Druidic order and be called a Druid.

[timid current]

I definitely played a "fighter" as a monk who worked in a monastary brewing beer

well, he was a fighter, but was a "monk" in the game world

[humble cairn]

Right, in the reality of the story he was a monk, it was only in the metagame level of class mechanics that he was a Fighter.

[stark tundra]

Ah I once played a cleric who everyone thought was a wizard because he never used healing spells in my defense my party had 3 healers

[glass granite]

I could also see some artificers being called wizards

[bronze wave]

Did he not have like… any cleric exclusive spells? lol

[timid current]

our party had a paladin who was from the same monastery - we were both warrior monks

[stark tundra]

He had cantrips

Just didn't use them because well others to do so he was also a tempest cleric so lightning damage go brrr

[humble cairn]

But like do people in the world know what Cleric exclusive spells are? Most people in the reality of the setting would not.

[stark tundra]

The players knew but the characters didn't

[woven flint]

If Malaketh dies or retires or whatever, you folks might mest him (Sumatra) in Titanic Upheaval, and it'd actually be around the same level where he took down an Adult Black Dragon named Sablewing (A feat I'm taking from that Oneshot because Ti likes some of his world's connected lol)

[humble cairn]

Therefore in the reality of the game that "Cleric" could very well be officially acknowledged as a Mage or something.

[timid current]

it's okay if you don't understand what we're trying to say - your games are your games

[thorn zodiac]

oh another reason i put barb wit hthe wiz was because i love tanking and the huge hp pool ik it was a while ago i said that but yeeah

[glass granite]

If you like tanking, I wouldn’t recommend taking wizard levels

[humble cairn]

The only exception I tend to make for this is Wizard, but the whole thing about Wizards is that they are about book learning and academics just can't seem to help classifying and categorizing things, so they might actually be the ones who have specific names for people with specific abilities. Even then, they might just over classify, having different names and taxonomies for every specific ability set.

[thorn zodiac]

im taking a look att other classes and paladin might interest me

[stark tundra]

Oh I understand been playing for 15 ish years

[minor pollen]

Hello

[raw ocean]

hello kaneki from tokyo ghoul

[minor pollen]

Yo guys looking for some good players , anyone up?

[humble cairn]

Life in the reality of the setting shouldn't be fair or balanced. Game balance is a conceit for the game and only applies when comparing PCs to PCs. NPCs don't have to abide by any of that.

[timid current]

no you definitely get it

[thorn zodiac]

then again cleric is also good on that

[thorn zodiac]

theres a find a game channel at the bottom of the channels,there you can see posts of whos looking for games

[raw ocean]

I mean like I would be up but we would have to slide to DM's

[humble cairn]

To me that preserves the mystery and unpredictability and fantasy of the world.

[minor pollen]

Where is it can you paste it # here so I can find easily

[hot reef]

Often times NPCs will have simpler abilities in comparison to PCs

[thorn zodiac]

https://discord.com/channels/516367331358801950/1070720656917938227

[humble cairn]

Sure there is, it means you can't look at your own PC abilities and just say "oh he's a Fighter so he has X uses of Y ability before they're gone."

[hot reef]

Then too bad, they get a more complex version

[humble cairn]

PCs play by certain rules, it's right there in the class chart. NPCs do not, it's right there in the statblock.

[timid current]

nah, it's a game built around player characters being exceptional

[hot reef]

Or they use a spell to become that NPC

[humble cairn]

I don't feel that way, but I acknowledge your right to feel that way.

[timid current]

they are not average, they are not the norm, they are an exception. that's why they're protagonists

[thorn zodiac]

yeah im feeling drawn to paladin i might make my next character one

[hot reef]

They learn more than what an NPC can
It’s the other way around

PCs typically have much higher versatility and complexity than NPCs

[humble cairn]

How so? You just homebrew completely new abilities that have nothing to do with PC abilities.

The world is strange and different and not like the skills you know and practice, but that's okay the skills you know and practice are special and unique and should help you win the day.

[hot reef]

I’m confused by this statement. Are you saying homebrewed stat blocks can be more complex than PCs, or can have abilities PCs can’t access?

[humble cairn]

Okay well I'm sorry you don't enjoy that, but I definitely do and I think it's more in the paradigm of 5E.

Basically, PCs and NPCs are different things, mechanically, and that's a good thing for fantastical stories of heroism.

A fantasy world should, in my opinion, always hold surprises for the protagonists. Predictability and homogeneity are the death of surprise.

[cosmic birch]

HAPPY NEW YEAR! Happy role-playing in 2026!

[hot reef]

Also, the Battlemaster’s parry:

When another creature damages you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction and expend one superiority die to reduce the damage by the number you roll on your superiority die + your Dexterity modifier.

[timid current]

the knight also doesn't get short rests to recharge it's parries

[humble cairn]

If every enemy is identifiable as a character class, I think that's predictable and boring.

[timid current]

it's true. within the 1-4 rounds a knight exists in combat, they have infinity parries (one per turn of course)

[humble cairn]

Because tracking resources for an NPC like that is really annoying.

[hot reef]

Flavor wise, they are both parries
Mechanically, they differ, because NPCs require simpler stat blocks for DMs to keep track of

[hot gate]

Not to mention, a huge DM prep overhead.

[humble cairn]

There's no good reason to constrain NPCs to PC class rules.

You have something that looks like basically the same thing. The mechanics of how it works is metagame.

Oh yes, there absolutely are.

[timid current]

the good reason is that managing NPCs as full PC classes takes a lot more workl and also throws off encounter balancing and planning

the other good reason is that PCs are exceptions not the rule

[humble cairn]

Not constraining PCs to class rules means well ... that way lies bonkers homebrew.

And sure, homebrew is fine, but not everyone's cup of tea.

[hot reef]

It’d throw off the feel and balance of PCs quite a bit. NPC abilities are designed very differently.

[timid current]

and I guess if you really want to get cheeky, war mage has a version of that anyways

so we'll see what happens as more things are released

[vale sage]

If there is one thing BG3 has taught me, it's that I should significantly reduce the DC's in my games.

[timid current]

my guy, I'm not calling you cheeky lmao

it's a turn of phrase, let your hackles down

it's not even disagreeing, we're agreeing that we like different things haha

there isn't a victory condition here it's just a conversation

[humble cairn]

That's only if you are metagaming and looking at a statblock and saying, "I wanna do that."

[hot reef]

In addition to what’s already been stated, I find it can be special when an NPC has a PC ability. It makes that NPC feel especially exceptional

[humble cairn]

But like, if you say "I like it this way" it's not possible for me to disagree, because that is how you feel and I have no right to tell you how you feel. Just as you cannot disagree with me when I say how I feel about something.

[timid current]

I hope you have a really good new year bud

[humble cairn]

Uhh, no? Is that what you think? No wonder you get so upset in regular conversations.

[timid current]

I think most of us have been having a pretty productive conversation, and I don't think anyone is being combative

[hot reef]

Person A: “I personally like chocolate”
Person B: “I personally dislike chocolate”
These people don’t necessarily have a disagreement

[glass granite]

Wait what

[timid current]

we're all pretty calmly talking about our viewpoints lmao

[humble cairn]

Wow, this explains a lot about you.

[remote wadi]

Which 2024 spellcaster class would you recommend for:

• Versatility with damage and utility
• A blend of simplicity while having tricks to learn
• Doesn't want to Multiclass in or out

[glass granite]

Does disagreement not just mean conflicting opinions?

[hot reef]

Person A can agree that Person B dislikes chocolate, while Person B can agree that Person A likes chocolate

[timid current]

no, it's not. we agree that we prefer different things. my liking something better doesn't mean that your liking something different means we disagree, it means we have different opinions

[covert rampart]

Chocolate gang or die

[timid current]

if I say I prefer green, and ophid says they prefer red, we don't disagree. we have different preferences

[remote wadi]

I agree with Herambe, though. This is a matter of personal tastes and not an opinion on people themselves

[covert rampart]

idk i just got here. happy new year erbody

[humble cairn]

Saying "I prefer X" isn't something that can be disagreed about.

[calm jolt]

Can half-elves be good for fighter and paladin classes?

[timid current]

nobody is saying one way or the other is the only way / the objective truth

we're talking about preferences

[winter knot]

What does any of this have to do with DND?

[covert rampart]

to disagree or agree through text is moronic. tone's get misconstruded.

[timid current]

we were discussing diegetic class/job titles

[humble cairn]

Responding to "I prefer X" with "Well I disagree" is out of bounds.

[remote wadi]

Anyways, I'm asking this because the next campaign is 2024 and doesn't allow for multiclassing. Wanted to pick up a spell caster like warlock, but wanted a few recommendations and feedback

[timid current]

oh right on! what kind of stuff are you into

[glass granite]

-# wait then what does it mean to disagree

[winter knot]

Wizard is the Swiss Army knife of casters. Great utility, great damaging spells, pretty low difficulty (for a caster).

[remote wadi]

A druid? I personally was looking forward towards warlock, but...

[glass granite]

Artificer?

Actually idk how much damage they do

[humble cairn]

Responding to "I prefer X" with "I disagree" is out of bounds because it's saying "your preference is wrong."

[timid current]

if someone has made a personal attack you can right click on the message, select "apps" and report the message to a mod and they'll be dealt with if rules have been broken

[humble cairn]

I don't think so?

[glass granite]

Wait then what’s the definition of disagree?

[winter knot]

There is a channel for Non-DND conversations. Just saying.

[hot reef]

Pretty much any caster with good damage spells can fit this. All casters can fit these criteria pretty easily depending on subclass

[humble cairn]

"X =Y"
"No X=Z"

[remote wadi]

Could be a a few things. You're technically correct, but I don't think it's that deep

[timid current]

druid is pretty cool and fun - and you can do things like turn into animals!

if ophid says "I like seafood" while I dislike seafood, that doesn't mean we disagree. in fact I hope ophid gets all the seafood they want

can you clarify?

I may not be sober enough to understand what you're getting at

[humble cairn]

Simply preferring two different things is not inherently a disagreement. Stating two contradicting truth statements is a disagreement.

[winter knot]

The only thing more pointless than the 2024 ranger’s capstone is arguing with a stranger online.

[glass granite]

-# super sorry, but does that not mean that you have differing opinions? Do disagreements have to be objective? Me still confused

[timid current]

it looks like the start of a conversation

[humble cairn]

And of you think that simply liking two different things is a disagreement, it seems like simply the existence of people who are different from you is some sort of .. offense?

[hot reef]

This conversation was more in line with,
“I think x is ideal”
“I prefer y”
“This is why y is currently the case”

[timid current]

still looking for clarity on your statement btw. I'm not offended but I would like to know what explains a lot about me lol

[humble cairn]

"Opinion" is a weird vague word. Do you mean preferences or do you mean statements of truth?

[glass granite]

Preferences

[timid current]

this one, just so I'm being as clear as I can

how can I move forward and grow as a human if there is something I'm missing that you've got visibility to. heck I might even agree with you

oh lmao. I was kidding about not being sober.

but to drop a statement like "this says a lot about you" without clarifying is not really illuminating

[winter knot]

They got stamina, I’ll give them that.

[timid current]

I was kind of giving you the benefit of the doubt

[winter knot]

But when they’re done, that stranger over there is going to look so silly… Just wait.

[hot reef]

This chat may need a modron line

[humble cairn]

Ahh, then no. "I like x" is a preference and is personal. "X = Y" is a statement of truth. "I like chocolate over vanilla" is personal, "Chocolate is better than vanilla" is a statement of truth.

[timid current]

you're getting less clear as the conversation goes on

[glass granite]

Ah that might be where the confusion came from. I consider the latter to be an opinion, as it is a personal truth.

[timid current]

hold on bud

[winter knot]

Once an argument devolves into analogies over chocolate, folks have run out of material.

[timid current]

nobody is even arguing

[rough basalt]

I like Vanilla more

[humble cairn]

It could very well be, but it's stated as a truth.

[timid current]

nobody is upset lmao, what are you even talking about

[glass granite]

Same

[winter knot]

Neapolitan is where it’s at.

And all of you are wrong if you disagree with me.

[glass granite]

Anyway dnd topic before we get smited
What’s your dnd characters fav dessert?

[humble cairn]

Yeah I'm not upset at all and I'm slightly worried that music seems a bit heated.

[hot reef]

They have a problem with your usage of personal messages, which can easily be perceived as passive aggressive
(Also oops sorry for the ping)

[timid current]

which ones?

[rough basalt]

Whatever she can get her hands on, she doesn't get it often

[timid current]

heya impmallet!

[winter knot]

Imported ice cream.

[glass granite]

Ah I see you’re not Upset. Hello slightly worried that music seems a bit heated, I’m Nugget’

[winter knot]

Eaten before dinner is served.

[timid current]

it's fine, I'm in a really good mood, it's new years

[glass granite]

Any flavour preference?

Hi in a really good mood, I’m Nugget

[humble cairn]

And also think that taking differences of preferences as disagreement or disagreeabileness kind of is the culprit of taking it personally.

[winter knot]

Strikes me as a guy who likes pizzas. Maybe something with whole strawberries in it.

[hot reef]

.

[timid current]

I legitimately was having a pretty engaging discussion about the diegetics of class names haha

I think most people are and were having a pretty chill time

[winter knot]

It’s just not the right forum for it, really.

[timid current]

it's probably the best forum to talk about roleplaying in D&D I think

we may have differing opinions there though

[humble cairn]

I can acknowledge that people have different preferences from me without taking it as a disagreement. It's all chill because different strokes for different folks. It's not a disagreement and therefore not something to be disagreeable about.

[glass granite]

To also be fair, Ophid you saying “this explains a lot about you” isn’t exactly kind. It definitely can be seen as rude.

And it also is a bit personal

[timid current]

I think we've determind that saying "this explains about you" is not an attack, right?

[winter knot]

Wanna argue about DND?

[timid current]

I really like 4e, it's a fantastic system

[winter knot]

What’s good about it? Skipped that one.

[glass granite]

Didn’t start playing till 2023, so I only know 5e

[timid current]

what's good: there was a really big effort to make the game feel good for all classes, without leaving people behind

[humble cairn]

Ah, I suppose so. I felt it was a lightbulb moment for me in rethinking how to talk to music since apparently they think me having a different preference is a disagreement rather than just differing likes.

[timid current]

are you mistaking me for someone else?

I am not even a mod on my own server, I had being a mod. I don't have the attention span for that.

well maybe don't talk about people that aren't here. let's move on

the only truth in this matter is it wasn't me, I have never been a mod

[glass granite]

To also be fairer, I still agree with music. Disagreements are just a differing set of viewpoints, at least from how I’ve always interpreted the word.
If I can be honest, I feel like both of yall could’ve phrased your words better. But this is getting nowhere, so I agree with Dave. Let’s drop it.

[timid current]

if it's someone that's no longer here, maybe let's not talk about them, especially if you're casting aspersions, yeah?

[winter knot]

Thoughts on Summon Beast’s upcast potential? Worth it?

[timid current]

and double especially if you're carrying over some resentment for them to me?

[humble cairn]

I don't, but it really feels like you're treating it as such. I don't disagree with you. You like what you like. I like what I like. Treating those differences as a disagreement, somehow, seems to me to lead to there being something disagreeable about that state of things and I don't think there should be.

[glass granite]

Can always give your own set of dnd hot takes.
Me first! I like using whips more than long swords (which means I have much more whip characters than longsword characters)

[winter knot]

The Rogue’s capstone is kinda garbage. Thoughts?

[glass granite]

It’s fine.

Not exceptional, not bad

[burnt valley]

Nets should've stayed as weapons

[glass granite]

What would’ve been a net’s weapon mastery I wonder

[timid current]

I haven't played a rogue to twenty in '24 yet so I don't have a strong opinion

[burnt valley]

You trap down two people instead of one

[glass granite]

Would it make sense to make a whole nother mastery for one weapon?

[winter knot]

You want to use it for damage, but with the Rogue having such easy access to Advantage and the big To Hit modifiers at 20th level, you may not miss for long stretches. So it’s not as useful as it could be. You actually want to miss in order to use it, at the point in the game where you’re least likely to miss.

[timid current]

I tihnk there's room to explore it but I haven't looked deeply into nets in 24

[humble cairn]

I'm typing on a phone where comments get buried really quickly so forgive me if I have to scroll back to see some of the pings. I've never been upset in this conversation so I feel no need to drop it but if you don't feel comfortable in any way I don't mind dropping it.

[humble cairn]

I really actually prefer how they work now in 2024. I've been using them to great effect on my Ranger.

[glass granite]

What’s the most grappling hands a person can have in dnd without magic items or polymorphs…

[winter knot]

There’s a channel for non-DND stuff, dude. Move it there.

[cerulean monolith]

Yeah 2024 net is glorious. In the game I’m in with Ophid, his Ranger’s nets have saved us multiple times. I’m also playing a Gladiator Fighter which uses them as well

[glass granite]

Thematically fitting

[humble cairn]

Yes?

[glass granite]

What was the change between 2014 and 2024 nets btw? I know they’re no longer weapons, but not much else

[winter knot]

Thri-keen from planescape? They have 4 arms.

[hot reef]

Doesn’t it specify the two extra arms are small and can’t be used for that sort of thing?

[cerulean monolith]

Save instead of attack

[burnt valley]

Having Nets as a pact weapon is funny

[hot reef]

Simulacrum chain?
Perhaps wildshaping into an octopus or squid statblock

[winter knot]

Maybe. Never played one.

[humble cairn]

They were a ranged weapon with 5/15 as a base range meaning you had Disadv no matter how you tried to use them. It sucked unless you had Sharpshooter.

[glass granite]

Wow

[humble cairn]

Now they are an item that you can use to replace one attack and they just impose a save on a target within 15ft.

[glass granite]

Maybe I should use them with my monk…

Knock them prone, grapple them, punch and stun them, net them

[humble cairn]

Oh actually if you're already going to be grappling them, why don't you use a rope/chain/manacles instead?

[glass granite]

Why not all of the above?

And also because don’t those take an action?

Which doesn’t matter because I’m a monk

[humble cairn]

I mean yes, but if you're going to net them, why bother grappling them?

Unless you specifically want to drag them.

[glass granite]

To rub salt in the wound.

No other good reason

I just want to bind them in all ways possible

[glass granite]

Was planning to have the grappler feat, so don’t even need that lol

[glass granite]

Actually the more I think about it, the more I realise this completely unnecessary and kinda pointless

Granted, that’s my favourite way to spend my day, but still

[winter knot]

I asked a while ago in jest, but I’m about to start playing an illusionist wizard and get Summon Beast at 6th level. Thoughts on that spell? It looks to have decent upcast potential.

[humble cairn]

Yes, though the escape DC for the various methods of binding are different.

[timid current]

and are different actions

[humble cairn]

I like Summon Beast on my Ranger. It gives you a versatile source of damage or any other kind of Action roaming the battlefield.

[glass granite]

Just read over it, doesn’t seem half bad

[winter knot]

The fact that the extra attacks it grants has no action cost is great. Air spirit has flyby. Swoop in, attack up to 4 times, swoop back out, still have my action and bonus action.

Concentration is a bummer for it, but it lasts for an hour, so multiple encounters.

[humble cairn]

And you can direct those attacks at different target or a single target.

[winter knot]

With an 8th level slot, assuming all 4 attacks hit, 66 average damage (not a great damage type) without touching action economy…

Every round for an hour.

[hot reef]

Being grappled+prone with manacles means they need to spend two actions to be completely free

[glass granite]

Does it turn to three if I also net them?

Or do nets and manacles not stack

[winter knot]

I would think they stack, but order might be important. Putting manacles on an enemy in a net could be a challenge.

[timid current]

they all seperately impose conditions that have to be removed via actions yeah.

[glass granite]

Now this seems like a character build concept

Fits very well with my monk’s tendency to favour impeding the enemy than fighting them at their strongest

[timid current]

hell yeah

[glass granite]

What are the saves for nets and manacles again?

Wait do you even get a save with manacles…
I feel stunning strike would be a lifesaver here

[timid current]

net: dc 10 str (athletics)
manacles: DC20 dex (sleight of hands) or DC25 str (Athletics)

[glass granite]

Or rather, a death sentence

[timid current]

well, these aren't saves, these are the DCs for escaping

[glass granite]

Ok this actually sounds hella fun

And yeah i figured. Dc 20 save to not get manacled is crazy

[timid current]

net save DC (to apply in the first place) is 8+ attackers dex+ attacker's prof

manacles don't get a save, but they have a skill check to apply . attacker needs to make a DC 13 dex (sleight of hand) on a target that is grappled, incapacitated, or restrained

[glass granite]

Noted

[winter knot]

You can only apply manacles if they’re already grappled, incapacitated or unconscious. The only effect they have is disadvantage on attacks. They don’t even restrain them unless the manacles are attached to a wall or something. There’s easier ways to impose disadvantage, but the flavor is cool, I’ll give you that.

[timid current]

a thief rogue can net then manacle in the same turn~

[winter knot]

True. Wouldn’t get a mechanical benefit, since the net already imposes disadvantage on their attacks through the restrained condition. But it would make it harder for them to get out.

[plucky trellis]

As I’m new here what’s the best way to learn how to play I already have a character sheet

[timid current]

forcing more action economy is the point I think

[winter knot]

That would do it.

[winter knot]

Hello. Welcome. The basic rules are available for free on DNDBeyond. That’s a great place to start.

[stark arch]

can a artificer craft items at lower cost and lower time???

[plucky trellis]

I don’t like reading but ok thank you

[winter knot]

The different subclasses each get a type of item they can craft faster, but the cost is the same. Alchemists do potions, for example.

[stark arch]

ahh ok

[rotund shell]

...not going to lie: if you don't like reading, DnD is definitely not going to be a game for you. you need to have a basic understanding of the rules and that means reading potentially a half dozen books... even if it's only segments of said books.

[plucky trellis]

Ima learn while playing kinda guy so I read the rules but I learn more stuff by playing the game

[rotund shell]

See, that's a little different than just "not like reading"

Carry on! :3

[stark tundra]

Read

[timid current]

3/10

[remote wadi]

Then you may have a very hard time enjoying DnD

And while there is no shame in hands on learning, that preparation is very very important

[winter knot]

And your DM would probably thank you if you had some semblance of what’s happening from moment to moment. They already got a lot going on.

[remote wadi]

Yeah, a lot of prep work goes into it too. I will agree that there are some things in DnD that can only be taught by showing, there's much more that requires learning about it

For example, spell requirements and effects

[knotty pasture]

Play bg3 to learn dnd while watching/trying

[remote wadi]

That being a great alternative, yes. I, unfortunately, am not able to do it at the moment

But I am a fast learner and have experience in games that are at least TTRPG adjacent like Fire Emblem

Let's just say my hardware is pretty dang terrible and running a huge game like BG3 would be best described as "1 Frame Per Eventually"

[knotty pasture]

Unfortunate

[timid current]

you're not missing a lot. Solasta might run and it's a lot better

[paper slate]

Hey guys I’m new to this whole world but I’ve been a been fan of all things mid evil and magic forever it feels like, I’ve done a couple novice campaigns with friends, and plenty bg3 hours, but nothing in-depth but I’d love to give it a try, I just finished drumming up a character I wanted to see about joining any games starting up

[remote wadi]

Yeah. But that's just how my life is a lot of the time: making the best with what little I've got

[tame forge]

"Mid evil and magic"?

[remote wadi]

It isn't perfect and comes with problems like a borderline obsession of wanting to make something work out instead of letting go and trying again

[knotty pasture]

Solasta is a lot more hardcore iirc, but is otherwise more faithful to the 5e experience

[glass granite]

Check out #looking-for-players posts and type /looking-for dm to make a #looking-for-dm post

[remote wadi]

But beggars can't exactly be choosers, can they?

[glass granite]

Likely medieval and magic

[knotty pasture]

You can choose to give up, cut your losses

[paper slate]

Thank ya!

[winter knot]

There’s also a #dnd-newcomers channel for questions.

[remote wadi]

Oftentimes, that choice is made for me when the time comes. Or when it is clear to the point that even i know "Can't do this anymore, time to leave it"

It's applied to way more than DnD. Jobs, relationships, expectations, maybe even living situations

[knotty pasture]

Except it hasn't so far, what with your borderline obsession and all

[remote wadi]

Hasn't so far for what?

Choice being made for me?

Or it being obvious?

[knotty pasture]

As in the choice hasn't been made for you so far when it should have been, well, it should have been for most people

[remote wadi]

I suppose both sides have something from it

I had some faults on being as frustrated as I did, DM had some as well from excusing recklessness from parts of the party and not helping me out at all with the problems

So I'll admit that much. It could be better, but sometimes just sitting back and waiting is the best call

Could be a change of mind from him. Could be me seeing that struggling early game is par for the course

I know the right thing to do. Isn't easy, Isn't always picked immediately with no annoyance. But it is the destination oftentimes

[glass granite]

I think the reason a lot of people were telling you to leave was because you were repeatedly expressing your frustration about your power level, while many were giving you solutions on how to avoid it (accepting that you just have bad luck, working with your dm, acknowledging that early game is rough, realising that you were out of your environment). So it felt like talking to a brick wall for some people, and so they told you to leave because you were clearly not having too much fun.

Just my observation.

[knotty pasture]

Don't forget the monologuing about builds that came from a faulty premise of wanting to hyper carry a team

[remote wadi]

True enough, yeah. But the early game is a little bit of a strange case for this scenario. Guess you could call it me realizing just how powerful that MP system is

[glass granite]

That too

I felt like Bloodline was just filling up the discussion chat sometimes just talking to himself to try and put him into a dominant position so that he could compensate for teammates he felt was inferior (which may not be true, but that’s how it felt to me).

[knotty pasture]

And when it doesn't work out, "Ranger sucks idk how you guys are enjoying this"

[glass granite]

Which overall probably wasn’t pleasant for some

[knotty pasture]

It feels like a diary entry now that you mention it

[glass granite]

That being said, you did get there eventually Bloodline, so props on you for talking to the DM.

[remote wadi]

I guess to try and describe it, being versatile isn't going to work out for that campaign. I needed a decent niche that was a bit flexible, but useful. Thus, the sniper build was what I wanted to work towards, yet didn't feel that strong levels 1-4 (Duh. Very few classes are)

[knotty pasture]

Dear diary, today my teammates who are dumb kept getting nat 20s so it felt like they're carrying and blaming me while I'm here tryharding and plotting but I'm getting carried instead

[remote wadi]

Surprisingly accurate LOL

[glass granite]

I think it’s largely a matter of mindset tbh

[knotty pasture]

Yea

[remote wadi]

Well, yeah. Mindset is a part of it, but those were some unbelievable moments (and hopefully more to come)

As for the "talking to the DM", I did do it a few times before, but was left with a not so satisfying answer of trying to see what your class is good at and working from there

[knotty pasture]

Is it because you aren't mustering the bravado and oomph you're unleashing on us here without a care

Go and monologue to your DM for an hour about your ultimate build, I'm sure he'll be convinced

[glass granite]

Tbf, from how you were viewing the rest of your party, I’m not too surprised.

You were also trying to optimise in a group of newer players…

What I’m trying to say is that the way you approached things doesn’t sound like you were too popular with your party.

[knotty pasture]

(And kind of doing it wrong anyways)

[remote wadi]

To be clear

[glass granite]

It’s the thought that counts

[remote wadi]

The reason I didn't like the advice was because the expectations could have been me seeing what my character is normally good at and focusing on that.
Reality was that I do at least somewhat know what Ranger is good at, but am mostly unable to make it work vs others doing that task among other things

[knotty pasture]

For the record my suggested build all this time was never about buffing

You were just too focused on wanting to take control for a change

[remote wadi]

And for optimization, it's a bit dicey... telling the others not to all pick heavy armor was a bad call on my part and did drop that after the DM brought it up

At the same time, accusations of that continued, even when it was just me wanting someone to pick a sensible option instead of Druid getting herself nearly killed

[glass granite]

Imma be honest Bloodline, when you started pulling up DPR and considering various multiclass builds to get stronger, you were already showing signs of an optimiser
You have an optimiser mindset

[remote wadi]

The silver lining is that i did tell our Paladin about this and she did agree that it was a reckless decision that was not cool (they allegedly had several years of experience in DnD too) and we agreed that if it happens again, Paladin and I both would ensure it will have a different outcome (not helping someone who clearly wants to harm themselves and the party)

[glass granite]

Yay, communication!

[remote wadi]

Also... whats DPR?

[glass granite]

Damage per Round

[remote wadi]

Oh. Well, that is because the kid in me still goes "Me get big numbers. Me happy"

[glass granite]

Optimiser mindset
Not saying it’s bad btw, I’m an optimiser in other games

[remote wadi]

You are right about me bringing that up. I'm just saying the method to the figurative madness

[glass granite]

It’s just something that needs to be taken with more caution in dnd

[remote wadi]

Well, yeah. That's why I explained it above

I don't force others to pick certain things or avoid this and that

[glass granite]

You can’t anyway

[remote wadi]

And I don't want to

[glass granite]

Which is gud

[remote wadi]

But when the word gets thrown out whenever there's even a little pushback on something pretty logical and fair

[glass granite]

-# well that also depends on how you phrased it

[remote wadi]

Paraphrasing, but

"Please don't keep fighting those 2 Bandit Captains, Disengage and we can make sure you don't die a terrible death"
"...are you sure trying to spend half of the party's rewards on armor only for yourself is a good idea?"

[winter knot]

I know optimizing is a big thing in DND, but I don’t get it… Optimizing gets you nothing. The DM is tailoring the adventure to the party’s capabilities. So optimizing just means the DM makes the fights harder to ensure you get the same experience. It’s not like a video game where optimizing makes it easier…

[glass granite]

Optimising in dnd is more about making sure your character doesn’t die, and is powerful enough to fulfil your ideal vision of them. Or to fulfil a niche that the player wishes to see in their character.

Also, some people like crunching numbers

[remote wadi]

It's also a very simple thing in games: people love seeing characters they're invested in get stronger both in combat and in development

Ask anyone who is a fan of Pokémon anime, and they would agree with that sentiment immediately (hyperbole, but you understand)

[winter knot]

Sure, but I’m just going to make the encounters match the power level. They aren’t more likely to survive. Just the numbers get bigger on both sides. I get why people do it. I just don’t think it accomplishes the thing people think it does.

[full cradle]

I’ve just finished stranger things

[humble cairn]

Many DMs use modules instead of homebrewing their own campaigns.

[glass granite]

Optimising can become a problem, of course. Power imbalances, combat balancing issues, losing track of your character’s thematics for damage in a group that doesn’t fit it.

[winter knot]

But I’m not yucking anyone’s yum. If it’s fun, you’re doing it right.

[hot gate]

It's a video game mindset. In those instances it makes sense, because you can optimize towards a goal. Goals in D&D are a lot less murky and I doubt your average optimizer will be happy if they end up in a D&D game that is mostly roleplay focused. This is because they made assumptions about what the game would contain.

[remote wadi]

It isn't perfect, but what is?

[winter knot]

That might be it. I only run homebrew.

[glass granite]

Donuts /s

[remote wadi]

Which ones? 0_o

[glass granite]

The yummy ones
Anyway gtg!

[remote wadi]

I've always been a sucker for jelly or custard ones

But yeah. It isn't perfect, but the sessions are moving forward somewhat smoothly

I just hope that I can iron out the wrinkles and enjoy Tier 2

[marble lion]

You need to chill

Reading about this for two weeks, seeing the cracks form

It seems more and more like you need to take a hard look in the mirror instead of venting here

[remote wadi]

Just because I'm talking about it doesn't necessarily make it a bad thing, though

[marble lion]

Sorry if im completely wrong and your table really is that obnoxious

[remote wadi]

Heck, I'm not even venting. Just explaining what changed and the current situation

[marble lion]

If someone talked about me this way, id kick him

Unless i deserved it.... thats more complex

[remote wadi]

Exactly

DM isn't extremely evil. Just has a few flaws like the rest of us

[glass granite]

Imma be honest though bloodline, it does sound like venting to a lot of us. Even if it isn’t.

[remote wadi]

I can still point out those flaws to him or other's without it being with evil or mischievous intent

[remote wadi]

Good point. Good point

[tawdry sundial]

some DMs are diabolical LMAO

[glass granite]

“The perception of reality is more real than reality itself”
-# ok I should stop pretending to be smart

[remote wadi]

Yeah, I've heard stories about them on it

[remote wadi]

It reminds me of Alan Watts

[tawdry sundial]

not in a bad way, more like tricking you into safety and almost getting all the party members killed

[remote wadi]

Ahh

[glass granite]

Yo I did that once! It’s called mimics.

10 of them. In ONE bag.
No the bag is not a mimic.

[humble cairn]

Funny, I'm building an illusionist Warlock right now.

[glass granite]

What a coincydink

[tawdry sundial]

....that's some maniacal shi

[tawdry sundial]

ngl I'd love to see that

[glass granite]

Nah, I know someone who’d add the bag man to the equation. Somehow.

[burnt valley]

Or using you as a scapegoat and blames you "jokingly" so the entire party also ends up blaming you

[humble cairn]

Great Old One with Mask of Many Faces and Deception prof. Can cast Mind Sliver or Vicious Mockery with no components at all, I'm gonna sit there disguised as a blind beggar while just spamming psychic damage til they drop.

[tawdry sundial]

sometimes I am in fear of what you people have in store for us

[glass granite]

Fear is a great motivator. And an extraordinary story driver.

[tawdry sundial]

or your character getting kicked in the nuts with a critical role (don't ask)

[burnt valley]

Start burning the bag of holding once the bag man is added to the game

[knotty pasture]

If there's numbers its human nature to crack it and come up with the best possible option

[burnt valley]

Whar

[marble lion]

"Dont ask"

[marble lion]

No actually

[burnt valley]

People tend to antagonize optimizing, preferring to play dead weight with their characters for the sake of story

[marble lion]

There is a very very big nuance here

Proper deepdive optimising is something that falls short with most humans because the other instincts win out

[knotty pasture]

There's practically strategy guides for every single game possible to answer the question of what would be the best outcome to something

Not even games, just things in general

[marble lion]

Namely energy conservation, a preference to simplicity, optimistic negligence and the fear of being judged in this context specifically

[tawdry sundial]

that's some jojo's bizarre adventure enemy stand user shit

[marble lion]

But its definitely natural for some people!

[remote wadi]

Wait, so you can just keep casting that while no one would have reasons to believe you are the one responsible?

That's crazy, I like that

[humble cairn]

Basically

[remote wadi]

Riiight, because no verbal or somatic

[humble cairn]

Psychic spells, if it's Illusion or Enchantment and a Warlock spell, I can remove Verbal and Somatic components. Mind Sliver is Verbal only.

So it's going to be purely psionic.

[remote wadi]

So... is there a rule of thumb to know what spell is what category?

[humble cairn]

This is not going to be this character's only schtick, but it's an option.

[remote wadi]

Like Illusion, Enchantment, Ritual, etc

[humble cairn]

No, you just look at the spell. It's under Spell School.

If you use Beyond to search for spells it says it right under the name of the spell.

[marble lion]

Well there are rules of thumb

The schools are chosen for a reason after all, not randomly

[humble cairn]

but they are loose. Cure Wounds has been Necromancy, Evocation, and I think is currently Abjuration?

[remote wadi]

Oh, boy...

[marble lion]

Many spells are pretty easily assigned which is what a rule of thumb is all about

[remote wadi]

That's all I needed to hear to take your advice

[marble lion]

Its not correct, just a good start

But best look them up indeed

[humble cairn]

It's all arbitrary depending on ideas the developers have, just like the difference between Arcane, Divine, Primal, Psionic, etc. Arbitrary.

[marble lion]

Fireball being evocation is pretty direct

[remote wadi]

So, tell me more about that trick. I was going to probably do Warlock with GOO patron for this next possible campaign (2024, no multiclassing)

[winter knot]

I mean, it’s not like I’m making horrible choices when I build a character. I make good choices for the character concept I have. But I don’t squeeze everything out of my characters. I’ve never even multiclassed in over a decade with the game.

[humble cairn]

Get to Warlock 3, pick GOO, pick Enchantment or Illusion spells with V/S components. Then you're set to be tricky.

[remote wadi]

I already have a rough character concept as to what it would be like. But this could be interesting for, say, a fight breaking out in a town square

[glass granite]

Btw, multiclassing isn’t always gonna make your character stronger. Most of the time it makes it weaker

[marble lion]

I multiclass and it never leads to increased strength

[remote wadi]

Which is funny because that other DM who ruled it out did so for the purpose of not making characters OP

[marble lion]

Only a more accurate expression of my concept

[remote wadi]

Exactly. But I guess my Fighter can't take a few levels into Barbarian now ;-;

[gaunt pagoda]

Yea like I have an idea for a character who just wants as many firespells as possible and I multiclas 3 levels sorcerer and rest wizard I only do it for more spells not for the subclass or the metamagic

[burnt valley]

Class dips>multiclassing

[marble lion]

I mean metamagic is just fun though

[winter knot]

I’ve seen some multiclassed builds in play that are ahead of the curve at certain tiers. But I really don’t look into those too much. I pick the class/subclass that best suits the story I want to tell and then roll with it. But once I make that choice, I generally try to make it effective. So I guess we all optimize a bit.

[still plover]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/spells#SchoolsofMagic

[marble lion]

If your whole char is about fire spells, metamagic lets you express yourself way more

It lets you really work with the flames

[burnt valley]

Narrative focused players will love freeform roleplay

[glass granite]

Oh yeah, multiclassing can get some bonkers builds. Often too optimised for regular play. I was just noting that multiclassing can easily be done without it being optimising.

[marble lion]

Freeform roleplay sounds boring

[glass granite]

I think scribe wizard would also do that very well

[winter knot]

That’s fair.

[marble lion]

No framework to make it feel like it matters

[gaunt pagoda]

Yea like some characters can deal like 200 dmg in a single turn and that’s kinda busted

[burnt valley]

It's decided by the hoster/server owner

[marble lion]

Mechanical leeway and neglecting optimal numbers, i like
But pure freeform is not a game anymore

[marble lion]

Hmmm im not sure what you mean then

[winter knot]

The longer I play this game, the more stock I put into the roleplay side. I wish I could find a local party that values it as much.

[marble lion]

Luckily i suffer not the temptation of irl games

[gaunt pagoda]

Im actively using a twilight cleric in a campaign but not cause I want it to be op I know they are kinda strong but cause I like the name

[marble lion]

Lemme sit behind a screen with easy access to music, info, maps, notes and no view of the real person roleplaying to remind me its all fake

Irl sounds like a laugh though

[knotty pasture]

Well no but there's also the appeal to crack numbers in general, just that its not an uncommon sentiment (I've no idea if you're into cracking numbers elsewhere)

I like cracking numbers myself to some extent at least

[winter knot]

I crack numbers for a living. So maybe that’s why.

[marble lion]

Cracking numbers is not all that popular

[knotty pasture]

Probably yes, applying your line of work into a game is probably not the best call

[marble lion]

This hobby is just so nerdy that we have enough nerds who do like it

[knotty pasture]

Idk just look at the speedrunning community for any game

[winter knot]

I play a lot of barbarians. Just let me turn my brain off and be dumb for a while.

[knotty pasture]

TASes too

[marble lion]

Yes another extremely insanely nerdy community

Speedrunning.... i take that personally

[knotty pasture]

On more practical hobbies or professions we have races

[marble lion]

A game is to be savoured not taken apart like a wristwatch

[knotty pasture]

World records, guinness records

[marble lion]

Ppl like being the best yes

But most dont actually wanna do the work, just see the results

[remote wadi]

That didn't last long
"Hmm... someone did bring up something interesting about multiclassing"
"NO MCING END OFF"

Speedrun(?)

[knotty pasture]

Yeah so its popular in its own right

[marble lion]

Different things

[knotty pasture]

It is ultimately cracking numbers in its own way too

[marble lion]

People like cakes too

Not necessarily baking

Its the blessed few that actually crave the process

Or in the case of speedrunning and dnd optimisation, the damned few

[knotty pasture]

But you wouldn't say that baking is not all that popular either right?

[marble lion]

Its definitely bigger than numbercrunching

[remote wadi]

Anyways, what are the usual species for Warlock and why?

[knotty pasture]

Yeah so at the end of the day its not as unpopular as it sounds

Cracking numbers is human nature which is then applied to dnd

[marble lion]

It doesnt sound like anything to me

[glass granite]

Tiefling is the classic, cuz fiend ancestry.

[marble lion]

To a low level yes

[knotty pasture]

To different levels really

[marble lion]

For some yeah

[burnt valley]

Descent into Avernus any% speedrun, Double encounters mode

[marble lion]

I meant baseline there

[knotty pasture]

One of the high op challenges was to start Descent Into Avernus at level 11 with 3x encounters

Better prep up for that 3x ||Zariel|| fight

[halcyon forum]

generally, species has very little impact on your overall strength, so there hasnt been any clear pairing of class and species since 2019

[burnt valley]

Btw, is this for a full party or solo? I've been wanting to try it out

[marble lion]

3 of her at once? I thought its in hell, not heaven

[knotty pasture]

4-6 players

[burnt valley]

Ah

[knotty pasture]

These challenges presumably just follow whatever the guidebook says in terms of player count, 4 players sounds about right though

[halcyon forum]

can you only ||redeem || one ||zariel ||?

assuming there is only one sword

[burnt valley]

Real

[marble lion]

Roll sleight of hand to steal 2 more

[knotty pasture]

||I dunno but in those fights presumably Zariel just gained the ability to make 2 more clones of herself that inherit all her hp and abilities||

Wouldn't break the campaign lore wise

[remote wadi]

Could be interesting. But what do I do as the sub species? My character would likely be a bit frail and excels in getting rid of problems the sneaky way or the freaky way

[glass granite]

Changeling sounds nice then

[halcyon forum]

ah so its still || skippable with redeeming|| her then

[knotty pasture]

Levistus? Tbh all of the subraces are equally good, besides Winged Tiefling which is S tier

[burnt valley]

The only way to win is to be an unhinged optimyowwa

[marble lion]

Grrr

[knotty pasture]

Yeah but that's no fun lol

[remote wadi]

More referring to bloodlines. Unless that is 2014, then forget that part

[halcyon forum]

idk, I certainly would want to try to skip that particular fight if I took months to get there

[gaunt pagoda]

Just triple her hp and give her more turns

[marble lion]

But thats why you got there

[gaunt pagoda]

That’s a way to do it at least

[burnt valley]

It can be done in a day btw

[glass granite]

You’re referring to yourself?

[marble lion]

Eh id probably want to redeem her for the vibes

[remote wadi]

...I had that one coming. I was trying my best to avoid that

But seriously. Is there something smaller in Tieflings like colors are to Dragonborn?

[marble lion]

Yes which archdevil they hail from

[burnt valley]

Oh yeah the triple encounter Descent into Avernus challenge states that its a one day chalenge

[remote wadi]

And this is still 2024?

[halcyon forum]

oh yeah then that changes things

[glass granite]

Infernal maybe? They get a cast of darkness eventually

[gaunt pagoda]

There’s a strange theme going on in 2 games I have been In in the past 3-4 months there has been 2 like 5 inch tall Dragonborn’s

[marble lion]

2014 is in 2024 unless replaced

That goes for everything

A dm could nay it though

Its also not from 2014 base rules but an extra book

right?

[remote wadi]

Anyways, I don't know which one to do

Could someone help give me good idea for the Tiefling Warlock?

[glass granite]

I…said infernal

[knotty pasture]

Are you in 2014 or 2024 again

[glass granite]

2024

[knotty pasture]

Oh yea no comment, I would have just told Bloodline to pick his poison with subraces then

[glass granite]

https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Races:Tiefling?expansion=33335
look at the three and see which looks best to you

[remote wadi]

So, what was the thing again with no V or S components from picking what types of spells?

[marble lion]

Speaking of stuff DMs can ban, i really wanna make an aaracokra monk tengu-inspired

One day....

[rain holly]

How do i find a game

[marble lion]

#find-a-game

[rain holly]

Thanks

[burnt valley]

why do dms ban aaracokra?

[knotty pasture]

Probably cuz of flight

[pallid haven]

do you guys take notes in your campaign?

[burnt valley]

Oh lol

[burnt valley]

Only for adventurer's league

[marble lion]

Yeah it adds 3d to the game

Some DMs dont want the extra work just from a race lvl1

I get it

[knotty pasture]

Unconditional perma flight is really legit to the point where house rules are sometimes made to nerf flight

[marble lion]

It probably also attracts really annoying players, like tabaxi monks and hexadins

[remote wadi]

So, how exactly can someone avoid verbal or somatic components on a spell for GOO Warlock?

[burnt valley]

or the DM mysteriously starts sending out ranged attackers with 600ft of range

[glass granite]

Level 3: Psychic Spells
When you cast a Warlock spell that deals damage, you can change its damage type to Psychic. In addition, when you cast a Warlock spell that is an Enchantment or Illusion, you can do so without verbal or somatic components.

That.

[marble lion]

Woah another 5 javelin throwing hill giants with steady aim feature

[remote wadi]

Gotcha, gotcha

That will be a good trick up the sleeve. Only wah to combat that without metagaming would be detect magic, I assume

[burnt valley]

the only time where 1200ft range eldritch blast warlock comes in handy

[marble lion]

Insight, logic, investigation, wanton destruction

Definitely cool trick though

[remote wadi]

Well, I mean with some things like disguises

Hextra mentioned earlier you could try things out like disguising yourself as a blind beggar

Which would be very clever

[marble lion]

I saw its pretty cool

Just saying it wont need metagaming to fight

Tbh most fights in my game would result in any nonparticipants being killed or at least knocked out too

The party fights pretty evil destructive people

Still very cool trick for the right moment though

[remote wadi]

Even someone more human. Bandits or the like

Friend or Foe could "escort" them off the battlefield, casting silent but deadly spells the whole way there

That, and the Great Old One with tbe Warlock could be fun for a character

Let's just say I've played a good chunk of Prey

Amazing game, could be fun to make a character loosely based in it

[raw ocean]

How hard would it be for a character to travel to the 4 elemental planes [Fire,Water,Air, and Earth?]

[still plover]

Once you get the right spell, you're set. The trick is getting the spell.

Alternative routes exist but will be 100% DM dependent.

[burnt valley]

Your best bet is just waiting for Plane Shift, DM dependent ones are too risky and unviable

[marble lion]

Thats dm dependant as well

[hollow turret]

I noticed there's been some updates to the books on dndbeyond. Is there a way of finding out what these updates changed?

[exotic sinew]

Random question but is “The Wild Beyond the Witchlight” a good campaign/adventure module to play in as a new time dnd player. I have only gotten a few one shots under my belt

[tame forge]

Play whatever sounds fun.

[burnt valley]

Tomb of Horrors is a good one too

[weak kernel]

People, how would you make the best use of astral monks visage feature?
When I read it it feels a little underwhelming, but have anyone found cool non obvious uses for it?

[rugged hawk]

Okay, but how about Mimic of Horrors? 👀 Parties surviving the Tomb of Horrors.... discover it was mimics all the way down all along. Good luck!

[rotund shell]

I think it'd be fine, tbh

[dapper cloud]

With prewritten modules, the question is more about the DM’s experience level than the players.

Some campaign books are infamously hard to run well. I don’t think Witchlight is one of them, but I know very little about it.

[slender gyro]

Question for path of the beast barbarian

[raw ocean]

20 baboons, if anyone knows the reference

[slender gyro]

Does he gain size when he becomes a beast???

[rugged hawk]

Just don't use the M-word around him, he'll bounce you by your ankles.

[exotic sinew]

Alright thank you all for the answer, the dm at my local game store said he was thinking about running it once we get a bit more comfortable with the game mechanics.

[dapper cloud]

I’ve generally heard good things about it.

[severe rampart]

HAH

oh man, that is gold

[humble cairn]

You can pull off the Darkness+Devil Sight combo if you have someone cast Darkness on a small item.

[humble cairn]

No

[rugged hawk]

The real question is where the extra atoms come from / go when changing sizes.

[humble cairn]

In my fantasy world, there's no such thing as atoms.

[north sable]

Why can't I post to Looking for players channel!?

I did have access to it in the past.

It would be helpful if they let me know.

[stoic haven]

Dang

[slender gyro]

Path of the beast question. At the beginning of rage Do i have to choose one natural weapon and stick with it for the remainer of the rage?

[stoic haven]

Could you remind me of the wording, but I believe it is for the duration of the rage

[stoic obsidian]

I feel like people underestimate hold monster

Yeah it a high cost spell, but atleast it can incapacitate monsters which is good

[rugged hawk]

I feel like people underestimate Polymorph
Levitate -> Killer Whale / Elephant poly -> SPLAT

[tropic plank]

It depends on your options
If you can’t take it out, holding it is great
If you could take it out with a different spell then it feels like you’re just prolonging combat
Could be a rp thing though

[stoic obsidian]

Or polymorph and enlarge reduce

[stoic obsidian]

Yeah, tho it good against big chunky monsters

[rugged hawk]

Hmmm. It occurs to me: how does Polymorph work if you got swallowed whole and became something a LOT bigger?

[tropic plank]

Magically speaking or physics speaking

[rugged hawk]

Let's just go with 'swallowed as a human, now polymorphing into a WHALE'

[tropic plank]

With magic I’d assume anything could happen but with boring earth physics you’d just sort of explode the container

[rugged hawk]

I feel like that probably wouldn't end well for whatever swallowed you

[stoic obsidian]

How about the ear drum

Now you got access to their brain

[rugged hawk]

Yeerks were a terrible idea then and they still are

[tropic plank]

You can’t do much with a brain other than destroy it
I suppose if you were a wizard you could make someone’s brain a phylactery

[rugged hawk]

That's a poor idea, brains tend to be pretty organic and decay

[tropic plank]

It’s more the symbolism of the act

[stoic obsidian]

Or you can do an ummmmmm

[rugged hawk]

The big brain move's to use some sort of high-quality artifact as a phylactery, so it can't be destroyed through any normal means and has massive benefits to not being destroyed

[tropic plank]

Or the classic random coin trick

[eager marsh]

That's a regular brain move

random coin doesnt work. a coin physically lacks the requisite condition to be a phylactery. dont let bad harry potter horcrux memes trick you

[stoic obsidian]

Mess with the brain to make them start telling you their secret

[tropic plank]

Fair enough
I don’t know a massive ton about Lich’s tbh

[tropic plank]

You’re more likely to lobotomise them
There are probably spells that would work better

[rugged hawk]

Lichdom sounds good in theory but in practice it rarely works out.

[eager marsh]

Phylacteries are specially crafted items that take a bunch of magical energy, and the lich can't just let it into the wild like Voldemort. The lich has to access the phylactery easily and regularly to feed souls into it

[rugged hawk]

There's not a whole lot of lichs who've made it work: Vecna, Vlaakith, some dracoliches, which is a whole other level of power.....

[tropic plank]

Well yeah, because a group of adventurers always comes along to slay you

[eager marsh]

Acererak, Szass Tam

There's actually dozens of liches that exist (Acererak has rooms FULL of their phylacteries) they're just let realm wide scale antagonists

[rugged hawk]

I don't remember that bit about souls

[eager marsh]

being less famous makes it less likely adventurers hunt you down after all

[eager marsh]

Demiliches (head only) happen when the lich forgets to 'pay rent' and they go insane and their body decays away even further. it's a downgrade.

They need to feed other mortal souls into the phylactery to keep their own going

[rugged hawk]

Demiliches get other powers, though, pretty sure

[eager marsh]

Some. It's still strictly a downgrade from regular lich status. It's how Acererak 1.0 got destroyed so Acererak 2.0 tookover

[severe rampart]

antman going into thanos' "den"\

[tropic plank]

Lichdom is overrated, ascension to godhood has way fewer downsides

[rugged hawk]

a demilich is generally considered far more powerful and dangerous than a standard lich, representing an evolved or advanced stage of undeath, though its form (just a skull) seems less imposing than a lich's body. Demiliches shed their physical forms to focus on pure magical essence, often gaining terrifying abilities like soul-trapping gems and devastating psychic/necrotic attacks

[eager marsh]

Tell that to Orcus. Who explicitly got rid of his godhood because of all the restrictions upon it

[eager marsh]

The lore for Demiliches has in fact been...adjusted between editions

[tropic plank]

I never said being a god was good, just has fewer downsides than being a lich

[stoic obsidian]

I think I have an idea how a villain can prevent their minions from telling anyone the truth, place a geas on them

[eager marsh]

That depends on what you consider a 'downside' because being a lich you have immortality and revival insirance. Being a god means you physically cant enter the prime material (and sometimes other planes) and are restricted on certain things you can do

[tropic plank]

Yeah but as a lich if you don’t get enough souls you’re boned
And all divine beings likely hate you, and other liches probably don’t like you either

[eager marsh]

Getting a soul is easy work

[rugged hawk]

Lady of Pain is another entity who stands apart from the whole mortal/divinity thing. Deities can't even approach her tower without gradually losing their powers, and can't enter Sigil itself at all.

[eager marsh]

unlike a Devil contract you dont need consent

[tropic plank]

The soul market is very full

[eager marsh]

Death Curse kinda even proved it because more powerful stuff didnt come waltzing in to stop it

[tropic plank]

-# I feel quite clever with this pun

[rugged hawk]

Your feelings have betrayed you.

[tropic plank]

Don’t choke on your aspirations.

[eager marsh]

But yea being a lich that isn't realm wide famous, it's usually a lot les well known you exist at all and you'll have way fewer people trying to harass/hunt you down

[timber turtle]

Can you be a warlock with a winding door of patrons? You make a ritual every now and then to make a pact with a new devil

Step patrons

[tropic plank]

If you could find more than one devil that doesn’t hate the others
Or sharing

[eager marsh]

usually devil deals are for your soul (not always but usually) and you literally cannot sell your soul more than once

There's no 'make them argue about it after I die' because those cotracts are divinely enforced and such

[tropic plank]

You don’t need to do the soul tho
You can sell other things

[eager marsh]

I said usually

point stands that it's super hard to find multiple things to 'sell' to multiple fiends that you can provide

[tropic plank]

Sell the souls of your enemies

[eager marsh]

in most cases you can't

Souls in fact cannot be proxy sold

[buoyant oar]

Yeah souls can't be sold without the consent of the person while they belong to. (This doesn't always mean the original owner)

[rugged hawk]

Ah, but you can freely sacrifice them to dark powers

[eager marsh]

You could. Still it's generally easier to just offer them up to your first patron than trying to rotate patrons. collecting souls for other fiends is just sort of spitting in the face of the first and likely wont go well

[uncut zenith]

Souls are typically collateral when it comes to a deal with a devil at my table. Devils will approach someone and make a deal, and their soul is the price they have to pay if they can’t fulfill their end of the bargain.

The devil will typically start to actively work against the person they made a deal with, hoping that they fail so their soul is forfeit

[rugged hawk]

That's the whole point of a devil contract, to be impossible to fulfill without giving up your soul while also dragging as many others with you into the Nine Hells as possible.

[buoyant oar]

Depends on the contract

[severe rampart]

what's the best spellcasting ability to use for a paladin?

[eager marsh]

You don't have a choice. You use Charisma

[weak kernel]

Paladins spellcast with Charisma

[buoyant oar]

I ran a succubus in a game that took a pact with a Warlock that bought everything but his soul.

[severe rampart]

Sorry, I meant from Magic Initiate origin feat

"You learn two cantrips of your choice from the Cleric spell list. Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma is your spellcasting ability for this feat’s spells"

[eager marsh]

for a Paladin to take? Which ruleset?

it dosnt have to be cleric mind you

[uncut zenith]

A Paladin with the Magic Initiate feat should still choose CHA

[severe rampart]

thank you

[eager marsh]

Oh that? I figured that was self explanatory

[nocturne gyro]

Why do so many 2014 legendary actions have Detect as the first option? What was the reasoning, and why it not there in 2024?

[stoic obsidian]

Well it become devastating with attack rolls

Especially scorching ray

[wraith kelp]

hello hows everyone?

[blissful meadow]

Song help plz 🙏
I need combat music for fighting the embodiment of Drowning.
It's supposed to be eerie and creepy but not too calm. It's a battle after all

[wraith kelp]

lemme see

[severe rampart]

The artist I commissioned for my DnD character stopped responding to me, so I'm finding a different artist

[severe rampart]

background music? like no vocals?

[raw ocean]

I remember when some dude tried scamming me on D&D art, said he would start on it, waited 30 minutes then asked for payment and he said he was done

[severe rampart]

mhm but I'm confident this artist just ghosted me

[raw ocean]

Wanted 120$ without even showing any art or sketch up, reverse searched the “portfolio” and most of it was stolen

[idle oar]

Good practical tip: Only pay up to 1/2 on a comission. Better yeat 1/3rd payment to start, 1/3rd in the middle (with evidence of work completed so far), and a final 1/3rd payment on successful completion.

[raw ocean]

Indeed

[severe rampart]

the way I do it, show sketch/lineart, then 1/2, then when it's finished ,the other half

[blissful meadow]

Yeah, no lyrics please
Just combat music

[severe rampart]

jorge rivera herrans has songs about Poseidon, Ruthlessness being one of them, and the background music is pretty epic, I'm sure you can find it somewhere online

[raw ocean]

Search up game OST’s

[severe rampart]

if you'd like I can show it to you

[blissful meadow]

Don't worry I'ma find it, thanks though

[severe rampart]

mhm, heads up it is only around 4 minutes long

[severe rampart]

you'll either have to find a good transition song or loop it

[idle oar]

Also maybe check out tabletopaudio.com

They also have a soundboard tool

[livid owl]

My dumb ahh read that as 'table topaudio'

[blissful meadow]

Same

[livid owl]

Yay I'm not alone!!!

[livid owl]

Anyways this is getting off topic but one note I'll say is- make sure you watermark and take a low quality screenshot of your sketch before showing it, some people will run your sketch through ai and call it good without paying you the full amount.

[severe rampart]

I was thinking of hellish punishments for DnD characters that would sort of mimic the "I have no mouth and I must scream" creature, like a changeling turning into a mirror forever cursed to take on the form of whoever uses it

[livid owl]

Oh that's metal

LOVE that

[rugged hawk]

Just use HeroForge

[severe rampart]

HEROFORGE HATES ME

[graceful flax]

I know someone who can do character art. She did my character once and his style is pretty good. May I provide you with more details about her?

[severe rampart]

perhaps, but not here, maybe in #non-dnd-topics later

[livid owl]

I'll say it again: I am glad I know how to draw because I would be broke paying for character art if I didn't

[severe rampart]

but other than this, I'm struggling, the stuff I'm thinking of just becomes sisyphus or prometheus

[graceful flax]

If you don't mind, may I give you the details in dm

[livid owl]

A bard who can never say anything original? They must always quote other's work, never able to make their own?

[severe rampart]

Sure, why not

[stuck shuttle]

We’ve reinvented the Kenku

[livid owl]

Throws up you're right

[severe rampart]

well, he could still link contrast or similarities between works of two different poets

[severe rampart]

oh my god

[rugged hawk]

Works fine for my water sorc. https://i.imgur.com/eIjKZPK.jpeg

[severe rampart]

It doesn't have the right clothes (for my character)

[idle oar]

Welp guess it's time to break out Blender /jk

[violet mica]

Im too based in comedy for this my first thought was a wizard with dyslexia so he can’t read tomes lol

[idle oar]

While heroforge and similar tools can be really fun to model out a character, by it's nature it's going to be constrained because heroforge has to be able to print that as a model on their machines if you order it.

[severe rampart]

unfortunate, yes

[rugged hawk]

Eh, sometimes you gotta adjust your concept just a tiny bit, but it usually works out. Like for my warlock. https://i.imgur.com/cpTt79W.png

[buoyant oar]

Well I understand doing things like split commission pricing. I have had way too many people take the half done art and run. And so then I do the rest of the work. And while I don't deliver it, I still did the work and didn't get paid.

So for me as an artist of D&D characters, I do demand 100% payment up front. But I do have a diverse portfolio. And a quick turnover. If it's a hyper complex piece that reaches 500$ we sign a contract with a payment plan

[severe rampart]

What about a wizard that forgets faster than he learns

[rugged hawk]

That's just Doofenshmirtz.

[severe rampart]

I think Doofenshmirtz would be an artificer

have you seen his -Inators?

[rugged hawk]

That's just because he can't remember spells long enough to memorize them

[severe rampart]

but he stills knows how to build complex machines 🤔

[rugged hawk]

That's totally different, just follow the blueprint

[tidal bough]

I mean one could argue that spells in dnd is just "following the blueprint"

[severe rampart]

Did you just Echo each other's words?

[rugged hawk]

Yeah, but his whole problem is he can't remember the damn blueprint long enough for him to cement them into his spell slots.

[serene jolt]

I'm always nervous starting with new commissioners so I always stick with the same one if everything worked out. XD

[tidal bough]

Id put it to more of a "im smart at science but not good at maths" situation

[serene jolt]

And then they eventually bump their prices up and I can't afford it anymore so I move on to the next artist.

[severe rampart]

out of 3 artists I've commisioned 2 ghosted me and 1 actually completed it

[buoyant oar]

I completely get that. If you like somebody's art style and you know they're reliable, keep paying them.

[severe rampart]

This is so real

[tidal bough]

I just started drawing my own stuff in paint 💀

[serene jolt]

I had a regular for years but she went to over 100 dollars which isn't viable for me with my 15/hr job and 1600 rent 🤣

[buoyant oar]

I have increased my prices twice over the last 5 or so years. Right now my full body pieces with a simple background run around $200. But that's because I use 3D models. So you get discounts on output changes, updates and things like that. Because I don't have to redraw your whole character.

[serene jolt]

So I have a new one in my pocket.

[severe rampart]

weirdly enough, one guy I commisioned threw their art at me and said "just take it, I can't draw armor" without asking me to pay, I would have paid

[serene jolt]

Lmaooo that's why I ask if people can draw armor before giving them an armored piece.

Armor is hard.

[buoyant oar]

I find hair to be the worst

I am elated when I get a helmed or hooded character

[livid owl]

Clothes I hate
But to be fair I also avoid hair too

[severe rampart]

you would love my first three characters, all 3 are bald for very different reasons, but let's not get sidetracked

[rugged hawk]

So you don't wanna draw my Rapunzel?

[tidal bough]

They're all light clerics that cast guiding bolt using the reflection of the sun from their head

[buoyant oar]

I would render a Rapunzel. My I would complain the whole time hahahahah. Hair physics rendering for DnD character melts my computer.

[livid owl]

wheezing

[rugged hawk]

That's just Krillin

[severe rampart]

They're all 3 halves of the same being, one being the imperfection, one being the pure essence of perfection, and the other being their pure pain, tormented every day but cursed to be immortal

[severe rampart]

I'd argue it's Tien

[rugged hawk]

Nonsense, Tien's got actual potential

Also doesn't routinely forget to use his best attack or miss a fatal blow on the three occasions he did remember it.

[graceful flax]

The one I recommended to you is also skilled in her work and fulfills her commitment

[wraith kelp]

Hey guys im making irl spell book for a wizard idk what spells to add to it?

[serene jolt]

I'm doing the same thing for my Cleric. I have a page for cantrips that she knows. Then I write down first level spells that she knows. Then second level. Then third.

Wizards are a little more odd because you can add spells over time, so I'd just leave plenty of space to add more spells in the certain level categories.

I write down everything about the spells and even some of them have a doodle. Get some of those category tabs and you'll be set for ease of access to your own spells.

[wraith kelp]

yea but for wizard they can learn basicaly every spell right?

so i would maybe add every cantrip and every lvl 1-20 spells?

[umbral girder]

Fun to remember that 3rd Edition, in lore, is how the Lady of Pain made D&D

“What do you mean mortals aren’t this strong? It’s still irrelevantly weak to me.” -the Lady of Pain probably

[umbral girder]

Well they can’t add cantrips to their spell book.

Also they can only learn Wizard spells so you can take something that’s Warlock or Cleric only as examples

[lusty kelp]

There's a magic item that gives wizards access to every wizard cantrip available. And... i think it was Tasha's gave them the ability to swap out cantrips on a long rest?

[uncut zenith]

Also worth remembering that while a wizard could theoretically learn every spell on their spell list, they’re still limited by how many spells they can prep and cast in a day

[graceful hornet]

Happy New Year to the unhinged menaces we call players and the world controlling wizards barely holding the timeline together while the menaces take the train to the other side of the world, into the wrong plane and unhinge the plans.

[umbral girder]

It’s a holiday notably

[severe rampart]

Yeah but the artist did make it clear to me how long she's gonna take and it's been double that time

[wraith kelp]

so uh what to add?

[lusty kelp]

Speaking of wizards and spellbooks... I'm kinda sad that the Tasha spellbook magic items didn't make it into the new core.

[umbral girder]

Most of them didn’t. I think only the Nature’s mantle is the class magic items that made it in

I don’t think this is the advertisement channel

[umbral girder]

Glad they didn’t

Gives a reason to actually own the book

[balmy halo]

That's make sense

[umbral girder]

Personally i wish they didn’t copy Clockwork sorcerer from Tasha’s and redid Divine Soul.

This way 1 of each class has a subclass in Tasha’s not in the PHB and gives a Divine option for sorcerers (and another subclass for expanded spells)

[stoic obsidian]

Kinda

They can’t learn some spells that aren’t on other spell list and healing spells

Unless you are playing with my dm

[lusty kelp]

Gasp, you mean reverse Vampiric Touch isn't healing?! Oh nyo!

[umbral girder]

Reverse Vampiric Touch? Do you mean Life Transference?

[stoic obsidian]

That spell is so meh

You transfer your life energy

[wraith kelp]

can or cant

[stoic obsidian]

They mean can’t

[umbral girder]

They cannot put cantrips in their spell book

And the only spells they can do is only the Wizard spells and no other classes

[wraith kelp]

but how do i have command spell lol

[stoic obsidian]

Well except by feats but at lvl 1

[umbral girder]

Homebrew, Multiclassing, or feats

[wraith kelp]

prolly feats

[umbral girder]

Magic initiate for example and do so, but you cannot add it to your Spellbook

It’s just something the character knows not in the book

[stoic obsidian]

You don’t know how you got it? that doesn’t sound right

[wraith kelp]

no i mean i do on my character sheet but not in dnd beyond

wth just happend

[tidal bough]

Are you saying that you have it learnt but not prepared?

[stoic obsidian]

So you assume you can learn spell and put it on your physical sheet ( or sheet that isn’t on dnd beyond)?

[wraith kelp]

well i cant find it

no i didnt put it it was just there

[wraith kelp]

its online sheet

[stoic obsidian]

Did you not read what I wrote?

[wraith kelp]

uh

ooohhh its from magic innitiate cleric

[stoic obsidian]

Now you should fix it on your dndbeyond character sheet

[wraith kelp]

but

[stoic obsidian]

No buts

[wraith kelp]

how?

i got it from human race i think why do i fix it

[stoic obsidian]

Don’t you have human dndbeyond character sheet?

Also isn’t this something you speak with your dm about

[umbral girder]

This sounds RAW, what do they need to fix?

[stoic obsidian]

I am confused about it

[wraith kelp]

i dont have a dm cuz i cant find one

[stoic obsidian]

Because they wonder why didn’t have command on their dndbeyond character sheet, but on their other character sheet

[wraith kelp]

ahh i found it

[umbral girder]

They didn’t say that. They ask why they do have Command. Not Don’t have command.

[stoic obsidian]

Are you know to dndbeyond or dnd maybe both?

[stoic obsidian]

Whoops

[umbral girder]

Literally the exact opposite

[stoic obsidian]

My mistake

[somber mesa]

I hadn't thought about it before, but Vecna's stat block loses hard to the Lich stat block and every other stat block immune to Necrotic damage

[stoic obsidian]

Then what this about

Do you have two sheets or something?

[umbral girder]

Yeah but the spam 80hp psychic damage bonus action and infinite Counterspell helps them

[stoic obsidian]

Oh no

[umbral girder]

Plus he can spam Lightning bolt too

[stoic obsidian]

Tasha mind whip?

Would that hurt Vecna

[umbral girder]

Also he has Animate Dead (as an action) so he can just use action economy too

[umbral girder]

Counterspell. He has 3 per round.

[somber mesa]

if the Lich had Mind Blank on their list, Vecna would lose the bonus action heal part of it

[stoic obsidian]

Guess I go shanking him

[umbral girder]

At will dispel Magic

Also 5 legendary resistances is more than the Lich’s