dnd-discussion

[burnt valley]

oh mb

[hollow stone]

gloomstalker?

[fickle heart]

Some of the other greatest flaws in 5e are based on the game attempting to be more "friendly" to players, alas.

[knotty pasture]

Yea

Both cuz I'm most familiar with it and both because Bloodline is running Gloom Stalker too

[empty thicket]

yeah but i can kinda do that with any class in lots of ways, A cleric can be frontline with heavy armor and spells
a fighter can be a range unit with archer, etc. etc. Good thing from variety and adaptability

[remote wadi]

At first, I was agreeing with you. That is a good spell
Until I realized that I would need to spend 9 out of the 11 levels in Ranger

[buoyant oar]

Wizard says they want to learn silvery barbs and wants a spell scroll to copy it into their book.

I can let them have access to that spell outside of a level up. Or I can just not let them have it before a level up.

[near karma]

this is all really normal stuff
how is this showing that there aren't classes more viable than others?

[remote wadi]

That's a shame

[burnt valley]

ah alrighty

[buoyant oar]

Because casters can't solve everything by sheer existence.

[knotty pasture]

(They unfortunately can)

[near karma]

I mean yeah?

[knotty pasture]

Well, Wizards can at least

[near karma]

with certain tech or at a certain level, sure

[buoyant oar]

Nah. They need access to spells and items and spell slots. If your casters are routinely walking around with all slots. You need to hit them more.

[empty thicket]

Trap scrolls should exist, the scroll say a thing but when you try it the fireball dont go away from you and you get damaged

[near karma]

but casters not being able to solve literally any problem by existing doesn't mean that some classes aren't stronger than others

[near karma]

yes, challenging resources is good

[buoyant oar]

Bingo.

[remote wadi]

Probably will stay at level 5. By the way, what benefits does Rope Trick do?

[buoyant oar]

A fighter could do a Barb's job. But not as effective. Each class has an area to shine in.

[near karma]

some jobs just aren't worth doing, like the barbarian's job, once you reach a certain point of optimization

at lower optimization tables, while some classes are better than others, it doesn't matter. The game is easy enough that everything works

[burnt valley]

conjure total cover, its invisible and attacks/spells wont go through it

[knotty pasture]

Attacks and spells can't pass through the interdimensional space created by rope trick

[remote wadi]

Interesting. Would attacks be able to come from out of it?

Oh... it doesn't

[buoyant oar]

I love the fun part where with a function of time players will optimize the fun out of the game.

[near karma]

No, that's just the average table lol

When I say anything works, I mean that martials work at the average table.

[summer crag]

if i never played how do i find a group to play with

[near karma]

At more challenging tables, you need stronger characters

[near karma]

I don't mean literally anything, like a dex barbarian or something

[stuck quartz]

Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game

[near karma]

my bad for poor wording

[stuck quartz]

This is a game design problem, and shouldn’t be blamed on players

[woven flint]

Dex ... Barbarian?!
You sicken me.

[buoyant oar]

And more challenging tables will have ranger specific encounters for them to shine. If the DM doesn't do that. The DM shouldn't be running more challenging encounters.

[empty thicket]

true, but there is a beauty in overcoming the weakness,
having a weak character that slowly get better and turn the tables on his side
Finally finding a spot in the big puzzle of the party

[near karma]

yeah I just used it as an example of a terrible build

[woven flint]

I will never use Dex on Fighters, Barbarians or Paladins!
I will DIE before I do so!
If I want to play Dex, I'll play a Monk (which I enjoy) or a Rogue >_>

[empty thicket]

i got one time a 4 in a rolling stats.... the dm saw it and said "na, roll again"

[knotty pasture]

Its a defensive spell, if a spell at level 3 allows you to play tower defense, Ranger would be beyond broken

[stuck quartz]

What point are you trying to make? I genuinely can’t decipher this

[near karma]

ranger is a good class, but what do you mean by ranger specific encounters?

[buoyant oar]

It will 100% blame players who are 6 pivot tables deep into a spreadsheet

[near karma]

this is why I like point buy

[burnt valley]

Just peek out then go back in

[remote wadi]

I saw that part. Might be useful as a means of protecting someone vulnerable, but idk if that's worth a second level spell slot for

[stuck quartz]

I like spreadsheets, that seems pretty fun to me

[burnt valley]

Point buy is truly king

[stuck quartz]

Are you assuming playing optimally is antithetical to having fun?

[knotty pasture]

Its the best defensive spell so

[woven flint]

My current fighter is a Cavalier Fellow...
His horse perished and he's distraught 😔

[knotty pasture]

No wonder why Ranger sucks in your eyes lol

[remote wadi]

How would I use it, then? Could you give me some use cases?

[empty thicket]

true, but we liek to use rolling random, sometimes we can get the most op character and other times....4, i was ready to use it

[knotty pasture]

His bread and butter spells are all considered situational at best and useless at worst to you

[buoyant oar]

No, playing optimally can be very fun. As long as the whole table is having fun with it.

If one player is hyper optimize the fun factor of the table will decrease

[woven flint]

Berserker Barbarian with Great Weapon Master 🤤

[empty thicket]

still, if the other players arent even trying. That is another point ot say because you can be doing a 5//10 but your allies do 2//10

[woven flint]

that's all I need in life.

[stuck quartz]

Communicating with your table is definitely important, yeah

[near karma]

players should bring similarly optimized characters, 100%

[woven flint]

I'm playing a Centaur Barbarian soon.
Nothing is going to be safe from me or my allies.

[stuck quartz]

So is finding a group of optimyowwas to clear 2x lcot greater caverns with

[woven flint]

Depending on if he allows them to mount him in combat, a Centaur must have standards, you know.

[buoyant oar]

There is a wide berth between Pathfinder levels of optimizing and doing minimal optimization.

[knotty pasture]

Make a quick escape during combat, guaranteed safe space during short rests, use as cover by attacking and entering the space

[woven flint]

It's not really, Centaurs in lore are actually fine with giving weary travelers a ride

[remote wadi]

Absorb elements also doesn't sound that bad for the damage resist. Although it is a little sad that the damage dealt back is melee only

Come to think of it, it is a little hard to know what damage type is good in what circumstances

[knotty pasture]

The bonus damage is a perk and is often ignored

[woven flint]

On Centaur in 5e:
"Those that felt a sense of wanderlust to explore the world made excellent companions, and occasionally would offer a ride to allies. The suggestion that they be used as a pack animal however would be met with derision."

[remote wadi]

Fair enough

[knotty pasture]

Spellcasters all grab Absorb Elements to defend themselves not to hope for a lucky dagger stab

[near karma]

I've cast absorb elements a lot and I can't remember a single time I've used the damage part

[empty thicket]

Yep, but when, lets say artificer isnt even using any of his features and was given many chances of it, welp, you are in a limbo of feeling you are doing too much and they dont. you arent sure which is and welp. Things happen
I always recommend talking

[remote wadi]

But pocket resistances against 5 types of damage for a reaction spell at level 1?

[knotty pasture]

Any 5 types of damage*

[stuck quartz]

Spells moment, shield is even more insane

[mental fog]

Thanks now I just wanna make a Tap Dancing Bard Centaur

[knotty pasture]

Scales excellently into the late game too, -50% damage is good regardless if you're level 1 or 20

[woven flint]

Listen, all I'm saying is if you have a Centaur companion, you should play a small species and get the mounted combatant feat.
That is all.

[remote wadi]

Why did I not consider this? (It is good, but kind of pointless because most damage so far has been physical or not elemental)

[knotty pasture]

Because you've been uh, either not reading into other Ranger spells or busy dismissing them lol

[woven flint]

Imagine how terrifying a Centaur Barbarian with a Fighter or Paladin riding on their back would be.

[buoyant oar]

Read the book follow the book.

Please gods above and below if you are new DM do not disregard the book.

[remote wadi]

Then I will definitely consider it when I hit level 5. I just hope that there will be times where it is important. No elemental damage so far

...and why is thunder and lightning also different types of damage??

[buoyant oar]

Thunder and lightning are different things

[knotty pasture]

Doesn't matter, its like Faerie Fire -- A bit useless when there's no invis enemies but you'd be thanking all the gods and devils when they do pop up

[woven flint]

While that may be true, I did not ask for opinions!
disintegrates you /joking

She already looks like one!

[mental fog]

My mother is a fine druid with toad form

[knotty pasture]

Anyways that was how I started holding onto Faerie Fire for dear life after almost getting TPK'd by a bunch of invis mooks once

The boss was easier than the mooks

[brittle beacon]

I had to force my friend to read the dmg.

[buoyant oar]

Learning by osmosis can work. But if 5e has taught me anything its Osmosis learning is a surefire way for mass misunderstanding.

[mental fog]

When they level 6 but still dont know their own spells. Rip

[remote wadi]

I was already a little upset poison and acid damage were different, but didn't know they did it twice

Either way, those are both really good defensive spells, I'll give it that. Just wish my damage didn't feel that unimpressive sometimes. Is it normal to feel outclassed at a range too?

[brittle beacon]

borderline gunpoint to get people to read at this point

[knotty pasture]

You're level 2-3 please just give it time

[buoyant oar]

My way around this.

Every Single time. They must read the spell out loud.

[remote wadi]

4, actually. Meaning the day of fireballs are close at hand

[knotty pasture]

Yes exactly you're one level away from extra attack

[mental fog]

I like them to write down the spell when they first choose their spell then read the actual spell subsequently

[near karma]

oh I replied to the wrong message

no wonder we still have people denying the existence of the martial/caster divide 😭

[mental fog]

Writing reinforcement for memory is very helpful

[remote wadi]

Good point. Maybe this is when the dice will start being kind to me too. They've been crazy for just about everyone else

We're talking first co.bat of the day, 2 nat 20s on initiative, then wizard getting a second nat 20 for the big fight

[buoyant oar]

I have kicked players who refused to learn their stuff. If you are new I get it. But refusing to read? Gtfo

[remote wadi]

That's not even half of it

[mental fog]

There is a difference between not knowing stuff and choosing not to learn.

[rough basalt]

Yeah it's hard but kicking people who won't learn can be necessary for game health

[buoyant oar]

I play with adults. Expecting reading ain't that hard.

[timber pebble]

hey im knew how do yall recommend i

[remote wadi]

Keeping them around would also not be fun, though

[mental fog]

Reading! Watching! Asking questions, playing!

[rough basalt]

There's a lot of ways you can deal with having issues with gameplay

[jolly path]

Don't play 5e and play a better game instead

[remote wadi]

And yeah, if you're 18+ and still can't do the 3 Rs at this point, DnD may not be for you

[rough basalt]

Indecisive? Then make a note of go to actions.

[mental fog]

5e isn't bad. It's better than 4e.

[jolly path]

DnD 4e and PF2E are both good

[timber pebble]

what is 5e

[buoyant oar]

Dungeons and Dragons

[jolly path]

Dungeons and Dragons Fifth Edition, the most popular TTRPG

[mental fog]

I prefer (2014) 5e to 4e.

[rough basalt]

5th Edition, in this servers case it's Dungeons and Dragon's 5th edition.

[jolly path]

4e is actually so good

[spring glen]

5e is eëéêè

[timber pebble]

there are rules?? from what i read its like open to your choice and the DM

[mental fog]

Maybe it was the groups I played with. It was too mechanical/board game like.

[rough basalt]

True, but having a go to card can be helpful for people with decision paralysis

[jolly path]

Yeah there are rules

[buoyant oar]

There are lots of rules

[stuck quartz]

The world’s largest skirmish wargame

[timber pebble]

chatgpt

[jolly path]

Oh. I like that part.

[rough basalt]

Yeah don't do that

[buoyant oar]

I just lost 32 more seconds of my life

[mental fog]

Dont. It will make mistakes, you aren't familiar with dnd so you won't catch the mistakes.

[rough basalt]

A lot of DMs won't like you from the getup if you learn from chatgpt

[jolly path]

Yes, it will tell you DnD's tagline for example

[mental fog]

I much prefer theater of the mind 🙂

[timber pebble]

yeah fair i will just start watching dnd games and learning from yt

[buoyant oar]

You want the basic rules which you can find on DNDBeyond.com

It's free

[mental fog]

But also that's what I like about different groups. So many different ways to play

[rough basalt]

Like what I tell people who are having trouble with casters is
Make a note.
Put down 1 cantrip
1 offensive spell
1 defensive spell
1 control spell
1 utility spell.
And if you're having trouble deciding what to do just pick from that list

[sleek cedar]

heads up there’s a scammer named imogene adding random people

[spring glen]

Kids still play make believe?

[mental fog]

No. They play iPad

[knotty pasture]

Look so Ranger doesn't have some kind of damage gimmick that buffs its ranged damage to obscene heights, closest it gets is Gloom Stalker's level 3 features

What it does have is simply incredible control and buffs so the enemy would have a hard time contesting you, a single Ranger can lock down a whole area and play tower defense

It was never about the damage only, and shouldn't be about the damage only either, Ranger's true value comes from using both aspects

[spring glen]

That's what I thought

[jolly path]

Then don't play DnD???

[burnt valley]

You will love freeform rp

[jolly path]

5e is a very crunchy game

There are exact values for ranges, speeds, aoe sizes, etc

[mental fog]

I enjoy dnd still lol. And I love crunch I just dont care much for battles and minis and all that.

[rough basalt]

Theater of the Mind is very much viable for 5e

If it's 4e, then yeah don't

[mental fog]

I've been fine with 3e and 5e for theater of the mind.

[jolly path]

What even is the point of Repelling Blast, Ray of Frost, being a faster race, things that increase AoE size, etc etc etc if theatre of the mind

[rough basalt]

If value your sanity anyway

[glass granite]

I do theatre of the mind for everything but combat

[stuck quartz]

This tbh, unless you really want to play in-person there are so many better ttrpgs to get into instead

[knotty pasture]

Bg3 spoiled me to the point where theatre of the mind bores me out lol, the more detailed and visualized the game, the better for me

[rough basalt]

Not everyone can afford maps

[jolly path]

Yeah that's... how most people run it

[glass granite]

Indeed

[stuck quartz]

Go to your local game store or something

[stuck quartz]

Owlbear rodeo is free

[rough basalt]

That being said I won't do Totm combat

[mental fog]

This is exactly why I like theater of the mind. It can be so much more detailed verbally. Maybe not visually though

[rough basalt]

True owlbear is free

[knotty pasture]

Yeah if I want verbal stuff I'd just write instead

[rough basalt]

But some people may have other issues

[spring glen]

Pencil and paper maps are quite useful of you can't really afford anything

[jolly path]

Yeah just drawing a grid

[spring glen]

Also check your local library

[rough basalt]

Like having potato computers and stuff

[near karma]

for example, Fabula Ultima

I get free maps emailed to me every day lol

[mental fog]

Well I'm a music composer so I like to write my music when I can and I like to draw out stuff. But still mostly other than prop and accessories its all theater of the mind here.

[rough basalt]

I make my own maps

Tho I did a sub to Czepeku for a bunch of maps

Cause I got lazy and didn't wanna make more maps

[near karma]

2 minute tabletop is very nice

[mental fog]

For me if I need grids I'd just play a tactics game.

[rough basalt]

My games are pretty hostile to people with bad pcs

Cause of the usual visual detail I put into them

[jolly path]

Based

Oh you meant personal computers not player characters

[spring glen]

Sora back at blowing up pcs

[mental fog]

Both

[rough basalt]

Oh yeah PCs too

If you make a bad PC in my game you're gonna die and/or be a burden on everyone

[mental fog]

What constitutes bad for your game

Other than like toxic traits from the player themselves

[spring glen]

I need to go back at working on my campaign when I get back to my PC on the 1st

[rough basalt]

Dumping main stats, not taking starting gear, not taking spells as a spellcaster.

[knotty pasture]

So true on the dumping main stats

[jolly path]

Being a martial in my games

[mental fog]

People dump their main stats? Why

[knotty pasture]

Idk if its XMas but it really brings out the apologists in terms of bad stats for the sake of funny rp

[rough basalt]

Cause hehe haha

[knotty pasture]

I'm like please no, don't suggest bad stats like you're doing it in good faith

[rough basalt]

I never really have any competent casters

It's always martials doing everything

[mental fog]

I've only ever liked bad stats intentionally in one offs for explicitly dumb one shots

[stuck quartz]

Not high-opping/4 castering in my games

[mental fog]

And even then its still pushing it.

[spring glen]

I have a character that passed on their starter equipment but bought what I needed for them with starting gold

[rough basalt]

Even then it can be aggravating if it's not a collective thing

[rough basalt]

Oh I'm talking not having any gear at all

[mental fog]

Yeah 100% it has to be the game itself is designed to be silly wonky like that.

[spring glen]

But why?!?

[rough basalt]

I also track resources so they were bumming off of others instead of their free 10 days of rations from starting gear

[jolly path]

Cause druidlock is cool

Druidlock at 13 WIS is a good build I am not joking

[stuck quartz]

This is true, I love not needing high wis to use the best Druid spells

[spring glen]

Great now I want to make a naked monk

[rough basalt]

Like music said "because funny"

[jolly path]

Naked monks are cool (wildshaped into a moorbounder)

[mental fog]

"Nature's bounty provides all I need" proceeds to bring nothing.

[jolly path]

"Nature's bounty provides all I need" eats goodberries

[spring glen]

Nature's pocket is all I need for storage

[mental fog]

Players be like, I really want to roleplay my character who brought nothing for the journey. So I brought nothing to the table.

Then they sit on their phone the whole time and go huh? When you tell them it's their turn.

[pale kite]

Hello papu

[glass granite]

I greet the Mister Mecha

[jolly path]

Wizard: Okay, I was in need of bones for my Animate Dead skeletons (KFC chicken ran out)

[pale kite]

What's up, Nuggets? UwU

[spring glen]

I cut apart enemies for my animate undead

[jolly path]

I cut apart chickens for my animate dead

[pale kite]

Your favorite companion has arrived uwu

[glass granite]

The sky

[mental fog]

Enough of the horror stories haha. Let's talk about the wow moments and the good times.

[spring glen]

Farkus is that you?

[cobalt owl]

Player rolled a 1 on divine intervention today

[jolly path]

That time I kited a level 20 fighter at level 5 (DM tried pulling the shopkeep trick)

[pale kite]

No se quién será pero enkinde

[rough basalt]

Don't have many Wow funny moments I can think of

[burnt valley]

the party Wizard is in must've done take outs all the time

[rough basalt]

Oh wow good, not many of those either

I'm enjoying my scion rogue.
Teleporting and finishing people off is fun

[pale kite]

👁️ 👄 👁️

[burnt valley]

Lmao based

[mental fog]

I really like when a DM just unexpectedly but organically brings up some NPC or location to a PCs backstory and weaves it into the lore. Especially when the player might not be getting much spotlight (and not for lack of trying)

[spring glen]

I had my sorcerer roll fireball as their first wild magic

[jolly path]

I used my free talking on my turn to sing melee lul

[burnt valley]

I wish I could react enjoyer to this

[spring glen]

I like using my free action to shut doors on people

[mental fog]

One campaign I brought my Tuba to one session. (I played a bard it was fine and I made sure the person's household was fine with it) And got to play on my tuba when performing lmao.

[rough basalt]

I really wanna open up as a tabletop player again

It's kinda boring doing bare minimum voices

Should clarify, I mean what I call bare minimum

[burnt valley]

gunmaid whar

Lol

[mental fog]

I love when people can bring props, embellishments, etc. In addition to just the roleplay. We had someone once cook a meal for the group because their character was known for cooking in game.

[rough basalt]

God I wanna do a bbeg

[remote wadi]

I can get behind that. I don't know too many of the control spells, and the ones I am familiar with just have the character escape way too easily. If they fail the strength save, then they just escape for their turn. Good for wasting their turn, but it didn't feel like the trade off was worth it

[remote wadi]

Why not be a Bard, then?

[mental fog]

Gonna roll for seduction first?

[rough basalt]

I don't like that kind of stuff

[mental fog]

I was just making light fun of the choice of words. 😛

[rough basalt]

It's just awkward and kinda annoying

[remote wadi]

Same

[burnt valley]

Ah that's good

[knotty pasture]

Even then that's a good thing, before the enemy takes their turn, all attacks against them have advantage

[rough basalt]

I plan on running a Dag game in the past in my homebrew during a pretty dark period and hoping I can use that to open up

And start delivering the real pain in my dnd games

[burnt valley]

That's very much a possibility, the fans for those kind of fanfics is just unhinged

[jolly path]

Melee lul, melee lul. I shat up your tree. Oh what cringe it is to watch your shitty build get killed, hey!
Melee lul, melee lul. I shat up your tree. Oh what cringe it is to watch your shitty build get killed, hey!
Dashing through the streets, with a longbow on a cat. Dinos cope and seethe, war crimes all the way.
Fanter in my flask, 20 combats done. I just used my second slot, your martial is a clown.
Melee lul, melee lul. I shat up your tree. Oh what cringe it is to watch your shitty build get killed, hey!
Melee lul, melee lul. I shat up your tree. Oh what cringe it is to watch your shitty build get killed, hey!
Reddit's damaged brains cannot comprehend, the power of their caster lords, True Poly, Nystul, Web.
Barbarian mains will cope and say they last a day. Analog barbarian sucks, electric all the way.
Melee lul, melee lul. I shat up your tree. Oh what cringe it is to watch your shitty build get killed, hey!
Melee lul, melee lul. I shat up your tree. Oh what cringe it is to watch your shitty build get killed, hey!
Now the dungeon's done, I cast Mirage Arcana. Dabbing over France, lava makes it based.
My 12 remaining slots, will Anime the Dead. Morbillion fighter's worth of whacks, oh this is freaking sad.
Melee lul, melee lul. I shat up your tree. Oh what cringe it is to watch your shitty build get killed, hey!
Melee lul, melee lul. Fine have it your way. I'll TP your useless bum, at least you're pseudo-based.

[remote wadi]

It would be, I suppose. It unfortunately hasn't happened yet, but I can see a time where that would exist

Also, would Fog Cloud make both enemies and allies have disadvantage on attacks if they were making attacks into or out of the Cloud?

[rough basalt]

Yeah

[burnt valley]

Otaku aliens confirmed, i wonder if the alien gets called a weeb in their culture lol

[mental fog]

Earthaboo?

[remote wadi]

Because aside from being similar to a smoke bomb to vanish, that's the best i could think of for now

[jolly path]

Disadvantage for attacking an unseen target, advantage for being an unseen attacker, so neutral

[rough basalt]

Fog Cloud the couple times I've seen it was to basically turn combat into a mess in caves

[jolly path]

Whcih also neutralizes any external source of dis/advantage

[burnt valley]

Awww

[remote wadi]

I thought it was disadvantage attacking from out of it. Wouldn't they be unable to see the target and vice versa?

[jolly path]

Yes, if you can't see the target it's disadvantage. If the target can't see you, it's advantage.

Neither can see the other.

[remote wadi]

So if I was attacking from inside the Fog Cloud, seeing the target would be unlikely

[jolly path]

Yes

But the target can't see you either

[remote wadi]

Point being what exactly?

[jolly path]

If you're prone, it's still neutral.

[mental fog]

The disadvantage and advantage cancel each other out to neutral.

[glass granite]

It’d be neutral

[wide dock]

What about if you're something that had good ears and just hear it? Like attacks?

[burnt valley]

The equivalent of speaking gen z brainrot to victorian era people

"Based? Based on what?"

[mental fog]

Aliens just shouting six seven to 1910s folk is hilarious 😂

[remote wadi]

So if I was prone in the fog, then what? I could see them, but not vice versa?

[remote wadi]

No. Just... no

[jolly path]

No, you can't see them either

[remote wadi]

Come on...

[glass granite]

Still neutral on both sides

[jolly path]

Unless you have blindsight

[remote wadi]

So Fog Cloud is mostly useful when you're not attacking

[jolly path]

Or when your attacks have dis, or if enemy's attacks have adv

[wide dock]

Can you not hear them?

[remote wadi]

If my attacks have disadvantage or they have advantage, something is wrong

[jolly path]

Or they're just wolving out

[remote wadi]

Wolving out?

[jolly path]

Wolves have pack tactics

[glass granite]

Its best for when you need to neutralise advantages or disadvantages, so if you’re attacking an invisible enemy for example

Or to blot out line of sight, as music said

[remote wadi]

Come to think of it...

[wide dock]

Can't you attack and then use fog cloud?

[remote wadi]

Why didn't my team attack at night?

Wait, no... bonfires and torches

Why not rope trick, then?

[mental fog]

Ask your group maybe?

[jolly path]

Because it's a 2nd level spell

[mental fog]

We can't say why they didn't every scenario possible

[remote wadi]

Was thinking of using darkvision to attack at night, but remembered they have plenty of fire

[glass granite]

Extinguish da flames

[remote wadi]

I would need cover. And for Rope Trick, I could actually use said cover and not be penalized for attacks

[remote wadi]

I doubt we have ways to do that stealthily. Especially when most of them are surrounding the bonfire

[jolly path]

Fog Cloud doesn't give cover

And it doesn't penalize your attacks unless they're at advantage

[glass granite]

Idk why music called it cover, tbh

[jolly path]

It's heavy obscurement, not cover.

[remote wadi]

I was told that if I cannot see my target, I have disadvantage. Would I not be able to see them from within a Fog Cloud?

[jolly path]

🤦‍♀️

[glass granite]

How would you be able to see out of the fog cloud?

[jolly path]

Please read the rules, people

When you attack a target that you can't see, you have disadvantage on the attack roll. This is true whether you're guessing the target's location or you're targeting a creature you can hear but not see. If the target isn't in the location you targeted, you automatically miss, but the DM typically just says that the attack missed, not whether you guessed the target's location correctly.

When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it.

If circumstances cause a roll to have both advantage and disadvantage, you are considered to have neither of them, and you roll one d20. This is true even if multiple circumstances impose disadvantage and only one grants advantage or vice versa. In such a situation, you have neither advantage nor disadvantage.

[remote wadi]

I know that much

So why are they telling me that "my attacks would not be penalized"?

[jolly path]

The target can't see you either, so you have advantage

Advantage+disadvantage = neither

[glass granite]

Which is why I didn’t correct you, cuz it got the point across (well, for me)

[remote wadi]

Oh, so that's what it means

But then I their attacks will have disadvantage bevause they can hear, but not see me

[jolly path]

Because they also have advantage since you can't see them as you're in the fog

[remote wadi]

So it's literally just a neutral

[glass granite]

Yes

[jolly path]

It forces a neutral even if you'd otherwise have advantage/disadvantage

[coarse ravine]

Fog cloud can only be seen through via blindsight. Or if you are on the ground and they have tremorsense. Fog cloud is very useful if you can figure out ways to obtain blindsight.

[distant cobalt]

My chud Bard decided to play Kanye in front of the mage mafia now they got us snorting grey mana dawg

[remote wadi]

I really am starved for spell choices, aren't I?

Oh, well. At least I'll have Cure Wounds, Absorb Elements, and Entangle until level 5

[coarse ravine]

Youre a druid?

[jolly path]

Ranger I think

[remote wadi]

Ranger

[coarse ravine]

Ahh.... good luck

[jolly path]

What are your current spells?

[knotty pasture]

Both enemies and allies yes, but on your turn you can simply slide in and out

[remote wadi]

Cure Wounds, Hunter's Mark, Ensnaring Strike

[jolly path]

Ready actions exist

[knotty pasture]

Its easier to control the fog cloud you throw down than it is for the enemy to take advantage

[jolly path]

Take Goodberry please, swap Hunter's Mark out

[knotty pasture]

And no wonder why your Ranger experience is kinda sucking lol

[jolly path]

HM is a really bad spell mathematically

[knotty pasture]

Where ensnare, where absorb elements

[remote wadi]

Ah, yes

[coarse ravine]

Just dony forget pass without trace

[remote wadi]

Absorb elements where every enemy so far was physical or necrotic

[knotty pasture]

Don't start that convo about PWT again 😭

[coarse ravine]

You'll want it tier 2

[remote wadi]

Bot a single enemy has any elemental damage

[knotty pasture]

Absorb Elements is an eventual just in case

[remote wadi]

And I am at tier 1 right now

[knotty pasture]

No excuse to not pack Ensnare though

[remote wadi]

So why did you word it like I needed it now?

[jolly path]

In 5.5e it's kinda mid

@remote wadi 14 or 24

[knotty pasture]

Cuz like most spells, grab it early than grabbing it late after you're taking elemental damage

[coarse ravine]

Absorb is my go to as a druid... idk about ranger

[knotty pasture]

This isn't Wizard where you can swap out spells at will

[coarse ravine]

Also could potentially increase your damage output based on the spell

[remote wadi]

And yeah. I mostly did it because of some other stupid homebrew rule (sprint mechanic to sacrifice all 3 actions to get 5x movement speed. No other drawback, no penalty, even when carrying an entire person)

[burnt valley]

Hunter's Mark bruhhh

[coarse ravine]

Entangle is a good spell

[jolly path]

What 3 actions, this isn't pathfinder

[remote wadi]

In other words, that 400 ft range actually mattered for once because no one else was guarding the person we needed to escort

[coarse ravine]

Difficult terrain at the very least. Restrained at best

[knotty pasture]

Are you sure picking Ranger is a good choice in this campaign at all lol

[remote wadi]

Action, Bonus Action, Reaction

[knotty pasture]

If house rules are designed to mess up things this much

[jolly path]

Kinda ass rule in 5e because most monsters have no BAs or reactions

[coarse ravine]

Lots of em do tho

[jolly path]

They made better Dash

[remote wadi]

I was out of options at the time. Could have took cleric, but it went from the guy originally choosing cleric never showing and then someone else picking Cleric before I swapped

[knotty pasture]

Tbh if this is a zombie it'd be a net buff

[jolly path]

Ranger is always spood

[remote wadi]

At this point, might as well see how deep the rabbit hole goes

[jolly path]

In terms of classes, cleric > ranger, but I'd prefer a ranger over a cleric in highop

[coarse ravine]

What subclass?

[knotty pasture]

You weren't there when dude kept talking about how his campaign has a dozen house rules that is aimed to indirectly trash Ranger

[remote wadi]

Max level is 11

[remote wadi]

Gloomstalker

[jolly path]

😭😭

[coarse ravine]

Is recommend you pickup control flames

[jolly path]

BASED

[coarse ravine]

If ya can as a cantrip.

So you can always get into darkness when flushing out lights

[remote wadi]

I wanted to go for a sniper sort of feel with some levels in Rogue and Assassin. Which would explain my focus on long range damage

[coarse ravine]

Gloomstalker and shadow monk would be a great pair as a split the party pair

[knotty pasture]

What were the list of house rules again anyways

[remote wadi]

And Sublime is right. There's a few homebrew rules worth mentioning that makes versatility much harder (I am still staying in the campaign, just saying the following to give you an idea of these rules

[knotty pasture]

Spend all action to get 5x speed, Perkin's crits, what else

[remote wadi]

Chunky Crits, Sprint, homebrewed Mana Point System, more feats, Lingering Injuries, Intelligence Matters, buffs to dual wielding and 2 handed attacks, and nat 1 melee attacks

Yes, some of them are vague. Either you know them and don't ask, or you don't and I can explain a specific one

And those are just the ones that came up the most, by the way

[knotty pasture]

I'd legit just go rapier shield

Forget about the whole sniper thing

[remote wadi]

Too late at this point

[knotty pasture]

No not really I mean

[remote wadi]

And might as well give a brief explanation for each

[knotty pasture]

Just grab a rapier and shield, sharpshooter is a bit wasted but eh

[remote wadi]

Mana point system: each spell slot increases total MP (i.e. I only have 3 MP from 3 1s, spellcasters have 10 from 4 1s and 3 2s)
Casting a spell costs 1 MP per level

[sullen ingot]

That sounds awful. Why wouldn’t you at that point just ban the class you don’t like?

[knotty pasture]

Don't encourage that convo again lol

[remote wadi]

So at max level and if I were to stay ranger (yeah, right), I would have 19 MP vs every spellcaster having 47 MP

[remote wadi]

As they say, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

[knotty pasture]

70% of this week-long discussion has been "Ranger sucks" which is just a facade for "my DM sucks, my teammate sucks*, my dice rolls suck, how to hyper carry my team?"

[remote wadi]

He didn't do it because DM hated ranger. He wanted to make everyone more versatile at things

Not realizing that versatility is mostly what makes Ranger so good

[knotty pasture]

• My teammates suck because they keep doing dumb things but they're blessed with constant nat 20s, so now I feel inadequate because I'm trying hard but I'm being carried

[sullen ingot]

Speaking of house rules: my DM has a neat one
“You can re-flavor spells to any damage type as long as you re-name it and change nothing else about the spell.”

I’ve used it to make Scorchburst (Thunderclap but fire)

[remote wadi]

Some others explained are:
Intelligence Matters: spend point to get a proficiency in skills, tools, or languages, or spend 2 points to make one an expertise. Points = Int modifier, negative modifier means losing proficiencies

[sullen ingot]

Any other cool spells I could make on a Paladin/Warlock out of that house rule?

[remote wadi]

Lingering Injuries: go down from a crit, make a Con save to avoid a debuff. Debuffs vary on damage type and number on the d20. DC is 10, goes up by 1 for every pass

2 handed attacks: make an attack with a 2 handed weapon and add half of your strength modifier rounded up for damage
Yes, our Fighter knows about this rule. And yes, he is very insistent on trying to get a Belt of Giant Strength

[sullen ingot]

That one sounds… interesting but seems to pull from a time when that mattered more

[remote wadi]

Nat 1 melee attacks: make one and enemies can use a reaction for opportunity attack. Main time it came up was our NPC to escort being ditched by the fighter and paladin, getting a nat 1 when attacking with a rapier, and getting clapped back into unconsciousness for it

[sullen ingot]

I feel like I’m in this rule, but I’m the idiot blessed with nat 20’s

[remote wadi]

Yeah, just to give a summary so far (may have forgotten a nat 20 or 2)

First boss vaporized from 2 paladin ranged divine smite crits (2014, but homebrew rule), a crit on Guiding Bolt, and a crit fail from boss against Bard's Dissonant Whispers. I spent a spell slot to do a total of 7 damage over 3 turns

[sullen ingot]

Remind me how 2014 smite works

[remote wadi]

Divine Smite is only possible with Ranged/Thrown weapons in 2024
But DM homebrew rule says otherwise

[sullen ingot]

I can smite with ranged in 2024? What is this sorcery?

[remote wadi]

Yeah. Like I need another attempt at versatility to have DM forget about the class he unknowingly burned to the ground

[sullen ingot]

Must be one of those house rules but not one I’d be opposed to. (I main Paladin apparently in 5e, over half of my PCs are paladins)

[remote wadi]

Anyways, that spree of luck with the boss was only the beginning

Latest session: first combat, 2 nat 20s from Wizard and Druid on initiative (still went first, my one and only act of defiance against Lady Luck), crit from Wizard Fire Bolt. Nat 20 from Druid to have horses from a bandit camp join follow you back to the party. Bandits did not like that. Another nat 20 on initiative from Wizard, another nat 20 on Fire Bolt

[knotty pasture]

For some reason your teammates' rolls lowkey reminds me of my own

My Ranger either crits for like 60 damage or misses with advantage, nothing in between

[livid owl]

My nature domain cleric can't succeed at ANYTHING lmao
She fails literally all her rolls

She's cursed.......

I think the only time she didn't miss was when I specifically used up a heroic inspiration .

[remote wadi]

Not only was the only nat 20 I got was on a disadvantage because some people couldn't keep enemies off me (needed to save both remaining spell slots for cure wounds on downed Druid and Ensnaring Strike because a guy carrying like 120 pounds (including an NPC to escort) can sprint for 125 feet a turn. Yes, that overkill 400 foot range was almost too short, yes, I eventually made the attack to restrain him, yes, he did break free after one party member's turn

On top of all of that, the latest nat 1 on my longbow apparently shredded the string. At that point, I gave up the chase, went back to the camp to loot, and let the party take care of the rest

[livid owl]

AMAZINGLY awful oh my gosh

[remote wadi]

It felt like that one Iron Giant clip of the guy getting up, pouring the coffee onto the ground, and just leaving the room (no, this isn't in person)

Sublime, is it any wonder that I want to build towards guaranteed critical hits?

[glass granite]

You still need to hit for those to crit btw~

[remote wadi]

At that point, I will have advantage and a +10/+11 modifier. I had freaking better

[glass granite]

Luck always finds a way

[remote wadi]

Do not remind me...

But hey. 15 AC would need like... a 5 or higher to pass, 4 at level 9

So while there still is a way to fail, I can live with a 98% chance of success

96 at level 8

[knotty pasture]

Nat 1s still meant you're getting a miss for the record

No crit fishing build turns nat 1s into crits, but you can pick the Lucky feat

[remote wadi]

Look, if i get a nat 1 from advantage

[knotty pasture]

I think my pseudo crit fishing build requires a nat 17-18 for a crit and so I went from missing 30% of the time to critting 30% of the time while still missing 30% of the time

[remote wadi]

Then it's clear I would need emotional support over a new build

[remote wadi]

And how do you get that? Champion subclass?

[knotty pasture]

Magical items

[remote wadi]

I'm listening

[knotty pasture]

I'm monoclassing so

No point actually describing them cuz its homebrewed magical items but

[remote wadi]

With Ranger?

[knotty pasture]

Yes, Gloom Stalker level 11 rn

[remote wadi]

Oh. Homebrewed. Of course.

[knotty pasture]

Even without crits its still outputting good damage

The crit thing just makes the whole experience more pleasant

[remote wadi]

At level 8, I would too

Even if i am still stuck with a musket, that's 1d12 and 2d6 + 5 with each attack

[knotty pasture]

Actually wait I didn't even actually stack crits that much

Was just a simple offhand shortsword that reduces crit rolls by -1

[remote wadi]

Well, I hope that the DM has some good magical items for me

There's no way that a fighter with the 2 handed homebrew rule wouldn't get out of hand with the Belt of Giant Strength

[knotty pasture]

The other item was an accessory that gives a guaranteed crit after a kill, once per long rest

Maybe that's why I felt like I was critting left and right

[remote wadi]

Yeah, I got jack crap for magical items right now

Silvered shortsword doesn't count

Anyways, if i got this right and Belt of Giant Strength increases the strength modifier too

That means a Fire Giant would make the Strength Modifier to attack rolls +7 and damage rolls +11

And he can attack 3 times a turn, plus Long Rest. And I shudder to think about what Rune Knight adds to that-

Even just from that and all attacks hitting, average damage would be 54 bludgeoning just with a maul, the belt, and nothing else

If there are magic items that help with ranged weapons or a crit, let me know

[fallow sandal]

Hi all , Can I ask as a DM what is the best world setting for newbies ? I've been advised in newcomers chat Lost Mines of Phandelver and forgotten realms might be a good choice,

[glass granite]

Btw LMoP is set in the Forgotten Realms

It’s just a module set in that universe

[rugged drum]

I have a questiom where can i see what gods are there so i can choose one

[viscid chasm]

LMoP is an adventure set in Forgotten Realms

[glass granite]

Other settings are like Eberron, Ravenloft, Spelljammer, etc.

[fallow sandal]

thank for letting me know quiet new to the full concepts of modules, I have Ravenloft

thank you , also have you all had a wonderful Christmas, holiday/ Yule?

[knotty pasture]

Try searching on Thieves Guild, there's a ton

Its not official but you can always just do further research from there

[rugged drum]

Ok

[lyric idol]

Research? Being suggested on MY dnd discord???

[robust fable]

Not knowing the rules, its okay if for weird rules that rarely come up but i have seen people who don't know the basics after years of "playing"

Not knowing what your character can do. This includes spells, your ac, your class features, feats etc.

[lyric idol]

You'd hate me lmao. I literally can have everything planned out and one slight occurrence makes me forget what my subclass abilities are.

[indigo cedar]

having a general understanding of the character and abilities are a minimum of what I expect from players, but its clear from years of DM'ing that that is sometimes too much to expect from players 😂

[edgy tapir]

chats,are creatures affected by fireball the targets of the spell?And should they follow the following rule? "A Clear Path to the Target. To target something with a spell, a caster must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind Total Cover."?

[indigo cedar]

doesn't fireball state that it goes around corners? the fireball hits in a area so any creature within that area would be targets

[edgy tapir]

the phb2024 removed "goes around corner"

[indigo cedar]

Uh, I get it fixed many other spells, but why would it remove that part...

[edgy tapir]

areas blocked by wall are not parts of "areas of effect"in phb 2024(btw i'm not native english speaker)

[indigo cedar]

if the spell now says it has to have a clear path, that is what matters

[robust fable]

Yeah i would kick you out of my table if you repeatadly did this

[edgy tapir]

i'm wondering if the targets of fireball are locations or creatures

[lyric idol]

Location or Area. Everything within it is taking damage.

[gilded mist]

I was thinking that one shots are probably pretty good for a total beginner? Is that a smart idea and does this server host them

[edgy tapir]

but in Rules Glossary it says "Target
A target is the creature or object targeted by an attack roll, forced to make a saving throw by an effect, or selected to receive the effects of a spell or another phenomenon."

[lyric idol]

It might say it, but thats not how its played or used. If you've played Baldurs Gate 3, fireball just covers an area. Most campaigns I've played in unless theres a particular reason to target a single target they just throw it in a general direction.

[indigo cedar]

where on the fireball does it say that it needs a clear path? from what I can see the text says "A bright streak flashes from you to a point you choose within range and then blossoms with a low roar into a fiery explosion. Each creature in a 20-foot-radius Sphere centered on that point makes a Dexterity saving throw, taking 8d6 Fire damage on a failed save or half as much damage on a successful one."

[lyric idol]

"A bright streak flashes from you to a point you choose within range and then blossoms with a low roar into a fiery explosion. Each creature in a 20-foot-radius Sphere centered on that point makes a Dexterity saving throw, taking 8d6 Fire damage on a failed save or half as much damage on a successful one."

I don't see where it says creature in the description of the spell.

[edgy tapir]

i totally agree with the words"thats not how its played or used",i'm just discussing how it works in RAW

[lyric idol]

I pulled up the spell and it specifically states it travels from you to a point within range. So no target is required.

Just pick an area and send fireball ahead.

[edgy tapir]

"Saving Throws p238
Many spells specify that a target makes a saving throw to avoid some or all of a spell's effects. The spell specifies the ability that the target uses for the save and what happens on a success or failure. "if a creature is not a target of fireball ,then it can't roll saving throws

[lyric idol]

Idk where in the rulebooks it says that, but its simply wrong. Fireball doesn't have targets. Anything within the range of fireball takes damage. If the thing is capable of rolling a save, it will. A mimic will roll a save. A regular chest will not and will take max damage.

Sorry, not max, full damage.

[edgy tapir]

it's wrote in "casting spells" in phb2024

that rule should be followed if you cast spells,i think

[whole pike]

that prolly falls under "general rule vs specific rule" so, specific rule wins out

[edgy tapir]

Targets
A typical spell requires the caster to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell's magic. A spell's description says whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or something else.

[hot gate]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/rules-glossary#Target

A target is the creature or object targeted by an attack roll, forced to make a saving throw by an effect, or selected to receive the effects of a spell or another phenomenon.

Any creature affected by a fireball is being targeted by it.

[edgy tapir]

that rule sucks because designers didn't write which are special

[whole pike]

i dont follow?

no rules are special? its just, like, when a spell is describing the rules of the spell, thats the specifics of that spell

so overwrites any conflict

[edgy tapir]

then they can't be behind Total Cover,right?

[whole pike]

i think it specifies that it goes around cover

[hot gate]

Correct
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/rules-glossary#AreaofEffect

If all straight lines extending from the point of origin to a location in the area of effect are blocked, that location isn’t included in the area of effect.

If the creator of an area of effect places it at an unseen point and an obstruction—such as a wall—is between the creator and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of the obstruction.

[whole pike]

ye, "The fire spreads around corners. It ignites flammable objects in the area that aren't being worn or carried."

[edgy tapir]

how can i send a picture to help me describe my thoughts

[hot gate]

Ah, that's another question then: are you using the 2014 or 2024 version of fireball? The 2014 used to spread around corners.

[indigo cedar]

but the fireball spell also doesn't state that cover prevents the fire from reaching its targets, it only says any target within 20 foot sphere

its the 2024 one

[edgy tapir]

2024

[lyric idol]

Here's the thing. The book is right. Spells do need a target. It literally after specifying that fact goes out of its way to clarify what AoE spells are, which Fireball is. AND has a link to AoE in the rules glossery, which clarifies this:

[whole pike]

basically, if theyre behind a corner, and the caster cant see them, they cant like, put the center of the fireball on the creature, but they could put it at the corner and it would hit them still

[hot gate]

Alright, then it doesn't go around corners, since it follows the general rule for aoe spells.

[lyric idol]

*An area of effect has a point of origin, a location from which the effect’s energy erupts. The rules for each shape specify how to position its point of origin. If all straight lines extending from the point of origin to a location in the area of effect are blocked, that location isn’t included in the area of effect. To block a line, an obstruction must provide Total Cover. See also “Cover.” *

[hot gate]

Yes, I had quoted that above

[lyric idol]

Mb just barely saw that

[whole pike]

ahhh i guess it depends on which we are talking about, i was going off 2014

[lyric idol]

I don't think 2014 is far off. I'd have to pull it up but genuinely don't think AoE spells and targetting has changed. PHB 2024 clarifies that AoE spells are different to the rules it was describing before.

[hot gate]

One thing also is that there are two parts to the original question:

Fireball has two kinds of target. The first target is where you actually place the origin point of the spell. This point can't be behind an obstruction from the casters point of view.

From this point outward follows the explosion. If there is total cover between the point of origin of the spell and a creature, that creature isn't affected.

[edgy tapir]

the 2024 removed "location(or other word,i'm not english speaker)" as targets

[edgy tapir]

the second,creature isn't affected because it's not in the area of effect,it's not a target

[remote wadi]

Silver lining about the current campaign issues, I can see what not to do in the small chance I become a DM myself

[edgy tapir]

but what about those clear to the origin point, but there are total cover between targets and the caster?

[lyric idol]

Finally a discussion thats not rules lawyering. What happened?

[hot gate]

I think it can be very helpful to be both a player and a DM, since you see the respective issues from two sides, yeah.

[flat niche]

Hey question, can you use Enhance Ability on you're self as a sorcerer?

[lyric idol]

I think? I mean you can touch yourself.

[hot gate]

those are still affected

For origin point, only the area betweern the caster and the origin point matters. For aoe effect, only the area between aoe origin and enemies matters.

(Also for the future, rules questions which seem tricky are usually answered quickly in #dnd-rules )

[flat niche]

Alright thanks, just picking new spells.

[remote wadi]

It's mostly a topic spanning a few weeks. But DM made the decision to add some homebrew rules to make players more versatile. Problem is, this consequentially makes one class who benefits a ton based off versatility pretty weak

[knotty pasture]

Yes, it can affect yourself too

[edgy tapir]

i agree with this solution but in rules ,why don't those creatures(as targets of fireball) follow the rule

[knotty pasture]

Be the ultimate face by having advantage on all cha checks

[lyric idol]

So...Rogue or Ranger I'm guessing is the one being weak?

[remote wadi]

Come to think of it... what homebrew rule would even be made to help Rangers keep up?

[hot gate]

Because those are two different circumstances. Both can to "targeting".

[remote wadi]

Ranger in my case

[indigo cedar]

What exact homebrew rules did he add to make rangers weaker?

[knotty pasture]

Replace Natural Explorer and Favored Enemy based on a fixed list of 5 options in bg3

[edgy tapir]

that means those are targeted by the origin point?

[remote wadi]

Oh, boy... do you really want to know?

[indigo cedar]

yeah

[knotty pasture]

This allows them to be a lot more versatile than just reacting and guessing what kinda enemies/environments one would encounter

[lyric idol]

I let Beastmaster's animal have its own action economy and not require a bonus action. Mostly because Battle Smith gets the same benefit and I genuinely don't see why beastmaster doesn't

[remote wadi]

I'm listening

[remote wadi]

Okay, for Ranger as a whole, not a subclass

[hot gate]

No, still by the spellcaster. Is there an underlying question you're trying to answer?

[remote wadi]

@indigo cedar Read from here

[edgy tapir]

i'm confused,because there are total cover between targets and castlers

[knotty pasture]

Favored Enemy:

• Investigation proficiency + Enemies suffer disadvantage from being hit by Ensnaring Strike
• Arcana proficiency + Protection from Evil and Good (once per long rest)
• Arcana proficiency + True Strike cantrip
• History proficiency + Heavy Armor proficiency
• Religion proficiency + Sacred Flame cantrip

[hot gate]

If there is total cover, they're not being targeted then.

[knotty pasture]

Natural Explorer:

• Find Familiar once per short rest
• Sleight of Hand proficiency
• Cold resistance
• Fire resistance
• Poison resistance

[lyric idol]

Nothing if I'm being honest. Besides little things like Beastmaster that bug me I don't tend to homebrew huge rules. I had my taste of that when my DM didn't like how cantrips worked and made magic cost points. So cantrips cost 5 MP, level 1 spells cost 10 MP, etc. And I only had 5 magic points per level, as a level 3 sorcerer who started at level one, it did NOT feel great.

[remote wadi]

I feel like Deft Explorer would be something to keep

But replacing the Favored Enemy with that could be useful. Not amazing, but still useful

[edgy tapir]

there is total cover between targets and caster,but no total cover between origin point and target

[knotty pasture]

Its still a bit reactive in a sense, but this is a lot more preferable to what 5e has at least

Heavy armor proficiency without needing to multiclass is big

[edgy tapir]

i'm wondering why the targets can be targets

[indigo cedar]

that's an interesting list lol

[knotty pasture]

Protection from Evil and Good is always nice, the cantrips are whatever and Ensnaring Strike isn't that much better at later levels

[remote wadi]

Like, there is probably a homebrew rule that could heavily damper Ranger's effectiveness for any part. So if it was something, if at all, it would need to be simple, but effective

[knotty pasture]

The Natural Explorer thing is interesting cuz you can have three resistances by level 10

[remote wadi]

By getting it and then one benefit at a level leading up to 10?

[remote wadi]

There's a few I missed, those were just the ones that mattered a lot so far

[hot gate]

Oh, yeah, but that is fine. Aoe effects are special, because regardless of if the caster can see the creature they want to actually hit with the spell, the spell itself usually targets a point in space. I'd read this through:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/spells#Targets

[edgy tapir]

(btw i googled "dnd discord"to find this server, is this an official server)

[lyric idol]

Because of spell description. You aren't throwing the magic fireball. Its zipping from you to a location of your choice. And remember, just because you have full cover doesn't mean the spell won't reach its intended destination.

[knotty pasture]

No you get improvements to Natural Explorer at levels 1/6/10 and Favored Enemy at levels 1/6/14

[remote wadi]

I see

Anyways, part of me does want to bring this up to the DM, but I also don't know what to suggest

[knotty pasture]

Just say it lol

What's the dm going to do to you anyways if he says no

[hot gate]

it is the official one, yeah

[lyric idol]

Cloud of Daggers is another spell that targets anything within a set range. You don't even need line of sight to cast it. You just know where you want to cast it and you do. Works the same way as fireball.

[edgy tapir]

yes i read it times, i'm wondering if fireball's targets are creatures or location

[remote wadi]

Which would be a problem because he already is a little upset at me "complaining all the time when we gave you the solution"

Solution being "find out what your class is good at". Like, the DM isn't that terrible, but i know what my class is good at. That's how I know what homebrew rules buff others and nerf me

[remote wadi]

Possibly give me the boot?

[knotty pasture]

Good riddance for both sides

[edgy tapir]

"A spell’s description says whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or something else."if creatures are not the targets, they can't throw saving throws"Saving Throws
Many spells specify that a target makes a saving throw to avoid some or all of a spell’s effects."

[glass granite]

Btw, can I just get the summary of what the issue is? Is it just you feeling weak, plus lack of creative solutions or am I missing something/ has something changed?

[hot gate]

First it targets a "point", then when the aoe happens it also targets whatever is covered in the aoe.

[remote wadi]

Well, I'd rather focus on finding a solution as tbe campaign goes on than try to stick one to the DM. Especially because he is somewhat new, apparently. Like, ran 3-5 campaigns

[glass granite]

-# that is not new

[lyric idol]

Going by description, it targets creatures.

[knotty pasture]

Sure but it seems like you just constantly ramble about your hyper optimization plans that isn't quite working out either so

[edgy tapir]

so if you want a creature to throw saving throws, you must target it,and you have to follow the rule

[knotty pasture]

As Tamm(?) once said, if you're constantly doing the same thing towards the same issue for a prolonged period of time, you're the problem yourself

[severe rampart]

I mean if I'm not wrong, if you're also in the AOE range you also have to make a saving throw, and you didn't target yourself

[lyric idol]

I'll be honest, just because DM allows a few homebrews that make other classes better and may not apply to your class as much, it doesn't make it a bad rule as long as everyones having fun.

[hot gate]

I see what you mean, but I think aoes make an exception to the general casting rule.

[knotty pasture]

(The issue is that everyone but Bloodline's having fun)

[lyric idol]

AoE is literally defined as an exclusion to the rule you're describing literally a paragraph or 2 below it.

[edgy tapir]

yes that's right, if you choose a bad place as the origin point you have to have a saving throw

[severe rampart]

Yeah, so you don't have to target a specific creature to have it affected by the AOE

[lyric idol]

Ask to change classes at this point.

[remote wadi]

Somewhat. It's not like my character is downright unplayable, but he is not keeping up that well with the others. Like, a homebrew rule probably exists that can make others more versatile
Ranger and Rogue getting a lot of proficiencies? Intelligence Matters
A varied amount of spells and a few unique? MP system
Great movement? Sprint
Even ranged damage is a bit hampered from Paladin being able to divine smite from a range for 2014 rules

[knotty pasture]

That he's refusing to do I think, I forgot what the reason was

[glass granite]

-# Paladins being able to throw smites isn’t that big of a deal imo

[edgy tapir]

i think it shall be written in errata

[knotty pasture]

(Smites are actually a very situational spell that only sees good value if you smite on a crit)

[lyric idol]

Thats a wild homebrew rule but not one I'm totally against. If anything I'ma throw a couple paladins the party's way and let them have a taste of their own medicine lmao.

[knotty pasture]

But seeing as they keep rolling nat 20s...

[glass granite]

But very well, yeah I agree with the others that either asking to change classes or campaigns is the best bet.

[glass granite]

It’s possible in 2024 lol, so maybe that’s why I’m not too against it

[remote wadi]

It's also Chunk Crits and having an MP system to benefit from being able to cast a certain spell several times between long rests while also being able to cast other spells as long as you have the MP and the spell prepared

[edgy tapir]

because if that's an exception,then we have too much exception in book

[knotty pasture]

Also I like how my gut was right, god even optimization guides refer to Tasha's optional rules than sticking with Natural Explorer and Favored Enemy

Two of Ranger's unique baseline perks are so bad people should opt for the optional versions instead

[remote wadi]

Yeah... everyone having godlike luck while also having it feel like it's at my expense is not doing me any favors. But that's just me being one cursed individual more than it being the DM's fault

[severe rampart]

What do you guys use for digital Dice?

[remote wadi]

Beyond

[lyric idol]

So you can see the dice rolled?

[knotty pasture]

Idk I think you really want to blame your dm but you're holding your tongue

[remote wadi]

Presumably. And because we use VTT for the maps

[knotty pasture]

Which is fine I mean if I wanted to play a class and the DM nerfs it I'd dislike the DM too

[lyric idol]

Did the DM nerf it?

[edgy tapir]

how can i send my thoughts to DND?

[glass granite]

Not the class specifically

[knotty pasture]

Ranger was given a bunch of indirect nerfs according to Bloodline yea

[severe rampart]

So Bloodline's class is NOT being nerfed but being powercrept by the others

[knotty pasture]

Its still indirectly nerfed I'd say

[remote wadi]

The thing about me as a person is that I like to talk about things if it very clear that a solution is possible

If it isn't, then I feel even worse about it and had all that time wasted

[knotty pasture]

Slows apparently mean nothing now, melee combat is buffed (Bloodline is playing ranged), spellcasters are buffed

[lyric idol]

What I read before it sounded like Ranger just didn't benefit from a few homebrew rules which just makes ranger, which is already not the ideal class, definitely more below average.

[knotty pasture]

Which it really isn't a solution but you keep rambling about it like someone would acknowledge you for it anyways

[remote wadi]

Yeah, which is why I'm saying the DM isn't evil. He wanted to make those rules to have people get more freedom and be more versatile

But that versatility was what made Ranger so powerful

[lyric idol]

So a few rules were introduced which made melee better, made spellcasters better, but Ig he's playing that fighter/ranger mutliclass if I remember right as an archer and isn't benefitting from either?

[glass granite]

Pretty sure rogue ranger now

[remote wadi]

I'm attempting to try Rogue for the MC instead, what Nugget said

[severe rampart]

That does sound rough

[glass granite]

But no multiclasses yet

[indigo cedar]

the best advice I can give you is to sit down with the GM and explain to him how these rules makes you feel that your character lost some of its fun, DM's often have these ideas of rules to be added to make things more fun or interesting, it's not always easy to see how the players feel about them

[remote wadi]

Taking the 5th level in Ranger before I do

[lyric idol]

Ask your DM to scrap the multiclass. If melee and spellcasting is buffed, guess what ranger can do?

[knotty pasture]

That and control spells are worse now, and Bloodline isn't a fan of buffing his own team so that's out of the question too

This all sounds like he's playing a crappy Fighter if I'm honest

[remote wadi]

I haven't multiclassed yet. In fact, I am doing so in order to at least carve out a niche as a sniper

[lyric idol]

Isn't that some of ranger's best spells too is buff spells from the druid spell list?

[knotty pasture]

Yeah but oh god we aren't having this discussion again but lemme summarize anyways

[meager fractal]

I had a dm threaten to universally up all monster hp because I was adding sneak attack to all my attacks as swashbuckler (I was doing work to ensure it tho)
That felt really bad

[knotty pasture]

In short his dumb teammates who kept doing dumb things but get nat 20s all the time are relying hard on him, and he doesn't want to be relied on

[glass granite]

I haven’t been here for all of it, but Bloodline could you remind me what exactly they were relying on you for?

[knotty pasture]

Hence there was this massive discourse where he kept convincing himself that PWT sucks in his situation, but he kind of wants it anyways, but it actually just really sucks

(Did I mention that we also really need to be reminded that PWT is actually a bad spell)

[remote wadi]

For very small context adding to this, Druid almost got killed this latest and their first session because she wanted to stay and fight instead of disengaging from 2 Bandit Captains attacking her. Only to either playfully or intentionally brush off my warnings to not play recklessly

[sonic shard]

Hey, I saw on internet that sorcerers have prepared spells. But they use their spells slot to use spells right? So, they have both or just spells slots ?

[lyric idol]

Scrap the arhcer niche. Play frontline support. Some heals, some buffs, a few damage spells just in case. You're in 2024. Take either magic initiate or weapon master and get the nick feature and duel wield. You can do extra attacks and an extra attack as a bonus action, and play around. If you're a gloomstalker in 2024, I'm sorry because gloomstalker fell off hard and is really only good in multiclass rogue builds. Ask to change your subclass, rework your build a tad, and voila. You're now contributing as much maybe even a tad bit more then a lot of your party.

[knotty pasture]

(He's in 2014)

[lyric idol]

Ohhhh rip.

[knotty pasture]

Which makes the whole thing more comical fr

The whole thing kicked off from the simple statement of "Ranger/Gloom Stalker sucks"

[glass granite]

Probably check out #dnd-newcomers
ask any questions you might have there

[edgy tapir]

if i want to get dnd's official reply about my question(i asked minutes ago),where should i go?

[still plover]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/character-classes#Level1SorcererSpellcasting

[jaunty iron]

oo ok got it

[lyric idol]

TBF... teleporting depends on what the DM decides is darkness. I let my shadow monk get away with a lot of dive under the table BS, but not every DM is like that.

[sonic shard]

@still plover ok ty

[knotty pasture]

I'm lowkey invested in this car crash of a dnd story

[lyric viper]

The real answer is that you're unlikely to get one.
For Playtest material there will be surveys to collect player feedback. Occasionally there is a 'ask a sage' type AMA, where your question might be picked to be answered. But in general, there are too many players for the writers to take feedback personally sent in by all of them,

[lyric idol]

Gloomstalker is the BEST subclass in 2014 so.... Idk.

[remote wadi]

Sure thing

Pass Without Trace is a spell I really wanted to take at level 5 because I and the Rogue would have been able to see if we can start getting some surprise rounds in (would have because he had to dip for good)

And while I still kind of want to take it, I would prefer it not to be because 3 of my party members have heavy armor. Yes, it benefits them a lot, but would you as a player feel good if your party (at the time) kind of gave you the overworked and underrepresented Support character treatment?

[edgy tapir]

😭

[lyric idol]

PWT is cancelled by any of your party wearing good armor because CLANK CLANK CLANK

[severe rampart]

I mean, Mr. Dungeons and Mr. Dragons are very busy people, so you gotta understand

[glass granite]

That…doesn’t feel like it answers my question. You take PWT because of a party’s poor stealth

[remote wadi]

Honestly? I respect that, so am I

[lyric idol]

It doesn't really help with that either unless the enemy is tracking you ;-;

[knotty pasture]

Yeah but I really shouldn't because we're just running in circles and I'm not actually enjoying having to make you see reason lol but here I am

[remote wadi]

Yes, but imagine the party basically armor maxxing so they can look at you and go "Well, where's our PWT? We don't have all day."

[indigo cedar]

the "problem" with ranger is that its not a good fighter on its own, neither is it a good spell caster. Ranger shines the most if played as a support class. If the character you want to play is a sniper type character just going fighter is sadly just as good or even better...

[tropic plank]

That feels like you’re thinking they’ll be antagonistic before they’ve done anything, if it makes sense?

[lyric idol]

...Nobody who plays DND expects a Ranger, Druid, Wizard, Sorcerer, etc. to have PWT.

[glass granite]

That’s an assumption of the future, no? Plus, that’s just working as a team. You’re covering each other’s weaknesses.

[knotty pasture]

I think the idea is that he's so sick of the idea of benefitting his teammates that if he must pick spells, it has to be a selfish buff where he doesn't have to cast on teammates (and he won't)

[lyric idol]

Yknow what forget it. You have PWT. Is it REALLY working out for you?

Is it doing ANYTHING for the party?

[lyric viper]

That's a new acronym to me- PWT? Power Word... Totes.

[remote wadi]

Playing a support class is easy when there's a 2 way street for a support. But that gets harder when they can fill your roles decently as is, but can do it in their figurative sleep because of a homebrew rule

[remote wadi]

Pass Without Trace

[lyric idol]

New level 9 spell just dropped.

[humble cairn]

I'm a Support Supremacist, I claim all damage done under my Support spells as mine so yes, I would.

[tropic plank]

If the homebrew rule upsets you this much, talk to your DM about it

[lyric viper]

Ahhh. Has been put to great use in my game, but never used enough to be shortened like that.

[glass granite]

It stands for Potatoes With Tomatoes
Pass without Trace

[remote wadi]

Doesn't really feel like a team, though. It feels more like everyone getting to have all the freedom and power while I have to stick around to fill all the cracks and put in the missing puzzle piece

[lyric idol]

The issue here seems like PWT isn't being used really well, for anyone really, but its being used so much for this conversation I'm too lazy to type it out lol.

[humble cairn]

And besides, if you nerf your own chance to get Surprise and use your own features you're letting your resentment of your team's treatment control you and thus you're basically letting their mistreatment of you compound itself by letting it dictate what you do.

[glass granite]

As Ophid mentioned, having everyone be stealthy is a benefit to you too

[indigo cedar]

so I guess the main question would be , what type of character do you want to play? llike what is the fantasy you are aiming for?

[lyric idol]

Then...Change classes. Ranger is a bad class in 2014 to begin with. There are a few builds for it, sure. But it is definitively a bad class. And the campaign your DM is running is kinda making you fall a bit behind in damage. Which is fine. You can have builds that are more RP focused if combat is covered enough. Because ranger is definitely more RP focused then combat optimized.

[humble cairn]

I disagree that Ranger is a bad class, even in 2014.

[jolly path]

Ranger is literally better than paladin, artificer, and all martials

[humble cairn]

But "Best/worst/better/worse" class arguments are not helpful.

[remote wadi]

Perhaps a rephrasing, then. Your backline that you do rely on charges in recklessly and downs herself near instantly deep in enemy spaces, then her amd the DM get angry at you for not charging in after her to revive her

This isn't like "Thanks, I made a terrible mistake back there. Thank you" and more like "Hurry up with the revive already!" then just not caring about your concern that they basically have a death wish you can't afford to sit by on

[humble cairn]

How is this relevant to whether you take a spell that will enable your own playstyle?

[glass granite]

-# Oh, you would not like Cleric

[indigo cedar]

This depends a lot on what type of game the DM run I would say, if the campaign is ran ina way where ther Rangewr doesn't really get ti use his core abilities then yeah I can agree its not a good class in that specific campaign. However a campaign that allows a ranger to use its core abilities a ranger can be an extremely valuable member of the team

[remote wadi]

Because I want my spell choices to be from what both I could use and what they could benefit from
Not basically "Get this because it benefits us, I don't care if it benefits you"

[lyric idol]

I should

[tropic plank]

Both sides of this seems a little selfish
On one hand, if you have a revive, it’s sort of expected you’d…use it? To revive?
But also there is a lot of negative expectations for support classes

[humble cairn]

It also sounds like you don't like how the enire group including the DM talks to you? But you also don't feel like speaking up about it? This sounds like a super toxic table situation that you should probably leave.

Or change ... by speaking up for yourself more often, and continuing to do so even if you are ignored/dismissed.

[knotty pasture]

Nah no way lol Ranger's right at the middle, spellcasters rein supreme but Ranger > Paladin > All other martials

[remote wadi]

Well, it's a little hard to bring up a problem without suggesting a good change. Or at least, something added that lets you keep up with the others

[lyric idol]

Sorry I shouldn't have said ranger is a bad class, his build is particularly bad rn because his DM buffed spell casting and melee and he's playing an archer. And he's not really spellcasting besides what sounds like Pass without Trace. Which is weird because ranger has a diverse spell list with plenty of buff and damage spell.

[humble cairn]

The good change would be, "Hey don't speak to me like I made a mistake when it wasn't my mistake."

[knotty pasture]

Oh right nvm, with these house rules yea its probably bottom 3?

[lyric idol]

I take back the ranger slander

[glass granite]

Do you…lose anything from bringing it up?

[lyric idol]

My question, what is the homebrew rule for melee and can it be adjusted to add ranged attacks into it?

[remote wadi]

Think of it like having emergency supplies to use in case of something bad. It isn't an invitation to play recklessly, it's something to fall back on in case something unfortunate or unforseen happens

[humble cairn]

If you don't feel comfortable/safe enough with this group to stand up for yourself, you shouldn't be gaming with this group.

[humble cairn]

You don't have to tell us, you have to tell your group this.

[glass granite]

The DM has all the control here, but you can’t expect them to help ya if you don’t bring it up.
And yeah, you’re preaching to the wrong people

[knotty pasture]

The logical way to go about things, unfortunately Bloodline doesn't seem to have the backbone to speak up (but is free to complain here)

[indigo cedar]

Any class can be bad if the DM adds homebrew that works against them, Ranger is first and foremost a support class, sure it can be a frontliner, but its not where it truly shines, and ranged attacks are okish at best.

[knotty pasture]

Like a more extreme version of a bar patron who endlessly complains about his own boss while downing drinks, but is as quiet as a mouse at work

"But I don't want to change the status quo! What if they hate me >.<"

[humble cairn]

Speaking up isn't always about backbone, it's also about having the emotional energy to invest. But a group that you want to game with should make you feel safe enough so it doesn't take all your energy to speak up.

[remote wadi]

There is one for dual wielding melee, but the much larger one is 2 handed

Where for every attack you make with a 2 handed weapon, you add damage equal to half of your Strength modifier rounded up. Doesn't sound that bad until you realize it's a Rune Knight Fighter who will likely get their hands on a Belt of Giant Strength

[knotty pasture]

God I wish I can get a Belt of Giant Strength early in my games smh my head

[humble cairn]

This is the first I'm hearing about this houserule. This, on top of chunky crits?

[remote wadi]

I'm saying at some point in time

[remote wadi]

And basically overflowing in stats feats, and proficiencies

[knotty pasture]

I got a Frost Giant Belt as a Dwarf Barb like right at the end, I wish I can get it at level 5

[glass granite]

You also get those feats tbf

[lyric idol]

I just fixed your thing. Ask if you can use that on a heavy crossbow but with dex instead of STR. Add Crossbow Expert, and you won't even notice a difference.

[humble cairn]

For everyone, though?

[knotty pasture]

My Barb would be soloing the whole campaign with that kinda firepower

[remote wadi]

Yeah, but this is also the context of versatility. You getting a buff is not half bad, but everyone else getting it too means that your main strength as a ranger gets less valuable as a result

[remote wadi]

Nope, gotta be a 2 handed melee weapon

[humble cairn]

To be very honest I don't think the main problem here is mechanical.

[lyric idol]

ASK. You won't know till you A.S.K.

[glass granite]

And plus, it won’t change unless you ask

[knotty pasture]

Something something status quo lol

[remote wadi]

You also need to know

I don't like using crossbow anyways

[humble cairn]

You're putting a lot of energy talking here, and none of that energy is going to the source of the problem, which is your frustration with how your group is treating you.

[tropic plank]

Genuinely just talk to your DM about it geez

[knotty pasture]

I really think its good riddance for both the DM/PCs and Bloodline to just leave

If the DMs/PCs have to listen to this week long drivel they'd be sick of him too in no time

[lyric idol]

YOU are valuable for providing the buff. You get praise for allowing the paladin or fighter to heal, deal more damage, or tank more. WTF is this mindset lmao

[knotty pasture]

And clearly Bloodline is resenting what's happening rn

Someone's gotta let it go and we don't know the DM/PCs personally so...

[remote wadi]

Praise?
You think
I
Get praise

[knotty pasture]

(This is exactly what I mean!)

[indigo cedar]

Why are you playing with these group? real life friends strangers?

[lyric idol]

If you'd say "Hey paladin. I gotchu. Go wild." And give them a buff to tank the boss a while longer, yes you'd get praise.

[tropic plank]

Sounds less like they want to actually provide for the party and instead want to be the one doing things, without a team

[knotty pasture]

The classic carry mindset

[humble cairn]

You're directing your frustration and energy to the chat here, where it's not going to do you much good. Are you here to simply vent? Or are you actually trying to solve problems?

[knotty pasture]

Unfortunately they do have the dice rolls to back it up

[lyric idol]

Thats exactly what it sounds like. And that is not what a ranger is for.

[knotty pasture]

Honestly I'd just buckle up and play support lol, its the only spells not nerfed by this change

[remote wadi]

Because my options for DnD are this
Or nothing

And before one of you says the rule quoted to hell and back, it's lot easier to choose the former when you have other things in DnD and life to fall back on and appreciate

[humble cairn]

Support Supremacy, for real.

[lyric idol]

Even a rogue/ranger combo isn't solo carry. It puts the biggest baddest damage on the biggest baddie in the room and allows the party to get one major obstacle out sooner. Which is amazing. But its not carrying.

[humble cairn]

You have heard the phrase that "No D&D > Bad D&D" right?

[tropic plank]

Find a new party?

[remote wadi]

All right, I'll head out for the night. It was right there, man... right. There.

[knotty pasture]

See you all next time for the discussion, we'll be back to complaining about nat 1s and Ranger in no time

[glass granite]

That’s the “rule quoted to hell and back”

[lyric idol]

The very end was insanely enlightening.

[humble cairn]

Is it considered a "rule?"

[glass granite]

It’s the only thing I can think that fits the context

[indigo cedar]

It does feel like your group and the DM isn't the only problem in this situation, a lot of what you worry about could be discussed with the DM directly and found a solution too. None of us can fix the issues you mention as we are not your DM

[knotty pasture]

You're assuming he wants it fixed

[indigo cedar]

Well, it could be he just want to vent about it, but hey that doesn't really change much

[lyric idol]

I don't think the DM is the bad guy. A few of his players might be toxic. But ngl it sounds like its shared company.

[knotty pasture]

I kept directing him to tabletop builds if he wants to hyper carry but no we spend ages going on about how his multiclass can surely turn the tides

[lyric idol]

talking to a literal wall.

[knotty pasture]

Yeah something like that

I probably sound like I'm antagonizing him but like I like to think we're at the grey line between entertaining rule breaking here(?)

Even if its not actually rule breaking, idk someone can enlighten me on this

[lyric idol]

I don't feel like its antagonizing. Because if it is, then I'm guilty of it too.

[indigo cedar]

The DM has added some rather interesting house rules, but hey if that the game he want tot run I fully understand those house rules. Nothing wrong with adding houserules if the players overall enjoy them

[knotty pasture]

Yeah thanks for the reassurance lol

If someone is constantly dragging the mood of the chat down by complaining about bad randoms and bad DMs without listening to anyone, does it count as disrupting chat

[lyric idol]

Melee is buffed significantly. If this were me I'd be taking the most Action Surge Extra Attacks Fighter you've ever seen with a Claymore.

Archery? I

[humble cairn]

I mean, I think so. It's badgering, even if not intentionally so.

[lyric idol]

Its threading the line

[lyric idol]

Not to be mean or badger, that wasn't the intention. We were all trying to find ways to help them have a better time in ig the only dm game they can play. We don't mean bad or wish him bad either.

[remote wadi]

I'll ask the DM and a few of the other players about the problem

[humble cairn]

I meant that Bloodline was kind of badgering all of us.

Remember what I said about making it our problem?

[lyric idol]

Oh. I didn't take it as that but idk.

[lyric idol]

Do it.

[humble cairn]

The issue of the DM and the group treating you badly isn't a problem we can fix and no amount of mechanical advice from is will do anything for it.

[remote wadi]

Maybe bringing it up to them as well as the DM could provide valuable insight? Or at least have the other players see part of the game from my PoV

[lyric idol]

Thats the only thing that'll help. As much as a bunch of randos on the internet have our own opinions of the issue, talking with them first is the #1 best way to solve it.

[knotty pasture]

Will go ask a mod actually, badgering seems like the perfect word for this situation

[remote wadi]

Well, yeah. I suppose

[lyric idol]

I wouldn't go that far. I didn't take it as harmful.

[humble cairn]

"D&D Discord said you're doing it wrong" is not going to hold any weight whatsoever with your group.

[remote wadi]

Obviously. But I'm not going to word it like that

[lyric idol]

"Erhm AKSHUALLY Orphidimancer, Hextra Attack User said you're wrong."

Sorry, sorry lmao.

[idle oar]

Communication is critical to good D&D

[humble cairn]

After actual months of it, it's getting quite irritating. Giving what feels like solid advice, but then finding out that the problem isn't even the question that was asked and having your solid advice ignored but the original question asked again and again and again is ...vexing.

[humble cairn]

snort

[remote wadi]

Indeed it is. But sometimes I get worried about speaking up about it making things worse. I have a bad record of trying that, the worst that could happen actually happening, and then bouncing back is very difficult

[lyric idol]

Okay okay thats fair. I've only been in a few convos of it, mostly back when they were considering fighter but wanted to focus a weird champion build with rogue and ranger.

[humble cairn]

The actual problems is "I don't like the way you're treating me and how it makes me feel, please adjust your attitude because it's making my game experience suck."

[remote wadi]

@idle oar Also, could I dm you real quick?

[idle oar]

That may be more a matter of framing things and asking in a way that doesn't make others feel attacked. But yeah, good communication can be hard.

[lyric idol]

If you're gonna talk with them though, you have to be willing to except their criticisms too. Because I have a sinking suspicion this isn't just a one way issue. They may have things they don't like that youre doing.

[idle oar]

I don't take direct messages on this server because I'm a moderator and want you and I to be protected so all communication with me needs to happen on the server so it's monitored and seen by the community managers and moderation team. Sorry.

[remote wadi]

Well, yeah. The homebrew rules are definitely fun, but to say we all benefits equally is just... no

I will bring this up to my dm, just wanted to ask people things like "What would I suggest for a change?"
"Would it be a good idea to ask other players in the campaign too?"
"Could I try to explain this without fear of being banned for talking about negative things?"

[glass granite]

1. A homebrew rule that might increase your damage, smt like getting more damage if you overshoot AC by a bit or smt. Sort that out with your DM. Maybe also ask for a gun.
2. Yes
3. Talking about negative stuff isn’t banned

[lyric idol]

I would NOT say "Could I try to explain this without fear of being banned" Just slim it down to "Hey I'm having this issue I'm really struggling with, could I discuss this with you here?"

[remote wadi]

Yeah, that was just me seeing chat a few minutes ago and having the anxiety shoot up

[tropic plank]

A good dm will accommodate for all players
If your dm ignores your concern completely, then they aren’t a good dm

[glass granite]

In which, leaving is better

[lyric idol]

Well the others don't really want you to get in trouble, the issue is they've been all doing their best to help you, and it seems even to me who've mostly been uninvolved in all this that they've been pulling every suggestion possible only for you to ignore all of it without addressing the suggestion and just complaining about the issue.

[idle oar]

If a discussion is getting circular or non-productive, pick a new topic and move on.

So how's everyone's D&D this week?

[humble cairn]

I will say that I am not at the point where I want to report your posts, but frankly I feel like you're in here asking for help, but then fighting against the help you're receiving which is honestly exhausting and makes me not want to help you anymore.

[humble cairn]

Oof, games got canceled so that I have a six week break.

[glass granite]

Woe is me, I won’t have a session till next year!
/j

[humble cairn]

But I guess that's par for the course for November-February-ish.

[lyric idol]

Good. Last week I played my once a month as a Wild Magic Sorcerer. This week I'm still sick of OSE.

[lyric viper]

Played Wildsheep Chase with my little niece and family. It went well! But also need to figure out how to keep a small ADHD (ADHD&D) child more focused. She's surprisingly good at remembering details and information, but will occaisonally just.. melt under the table and suddenly disappear to another room during someone else talking.

[indigo cedar]

This weeks D&D is all about planning the campaign I will be starting in january, although its not really D&D I'm gonna run

[knotty pasture]

Right ahead of you, uhh it doesn't count as rule breaking to put it shortly...

Unless everyone's really done with it

[idle oar]

Oh yes, the challenge of keeping the younger D&D players engaged...

[lyric idol]

Already put it too the test huh lmao

[remote wadi]

Yeah, I know. Advice is hard to follow when that advice could leave ypu worse than where you started. It's why I wanted to stay and make it better instead of leaving. If it genuinely gets that bad, I will.

It also gets a little annoying when you say something in a message, but immediately gets overlooked. Which, looking back, I could have worded the "No DnD..." bit more specifically. Sorry for snapping like that

[knotty pasture]

I mean I didn't even name drop lol I just wanted to know how this falls under the rules

[lean hill]

I wanna join a campaign but lowkey im kinda scared and not sure how to meet people

[knotty pasture]

Eh it is how it is, moving on 🫡

[idle oar]

Awesome! Check out #find-a-game to learn how to use our Looking For Game channels

[humble cairn]

I honestly had no idea the "No D&D" thing was what you were referring to or even that you had "snapped?" So uhh ... no harm done?

[remote wadi]

Common rule that "No DnD is better than bad DnD". More a rule of thumb than an actual rule

[lyric idol]

Test it out. Hit #looking-for-players and introduce yourself. If you're not a minor, you can use FB. I met my best groups on FB. I literally only use facebook for DND groups in my area.

[scarlet marsh]

Goodmorng

[woven flint]

Solution:
Be yourself!
Meeting new people doesn't require you to act any differently, I'm sure you're a likable person if you're asking for advice! That means you care how other people feel and that's good
But, don't be afraid to set boundaries either, friend

[lean hill]

Thank you

[knotty pasture]

Anyways dnd is a going good, Gloom Stalker Ranger went excellently for the most part but I think I still struggle with spellcasters in general

[lyric viper]

I used to stand by 'No D&D is better than bad D&D' but like any saying, it ends up simplifying and missing nuances such as 'Bad D&D doesn't have to stay bad'

[knotty pasture]

How to not end a day on a long rest while having a dozen spell slots

[humble cairn]

I find that you make a lot of references to things without actually saying them and I just end up not knowing what you're referencing.

[indigo cedar]

I do think that the rule kind of assumes you have done what you can to fix it first

a game that starts out bad doesn't have to continue to be bad if the criticsm is constructive and the DM is willing to listen to it

[woven flint]

I stand by the mantra:
If you run out of food, your party is always the next best source!

[lean hill]

Oh I can’t say exact age.. I am an adult so I’ll try that theory

[lyric idol]

All good, No need to repost it. No ages in this server.

[lean hill]

Yeah I realised — hence why I changed it

The bot DMed me

I’ve been informed that I am basic because my first character is a high elf cleric

[idle oar]

Pfhhh

[lyric viper]

The fun of discussing things- first having to figure out what's being discussed

But I still feel a few phrases repeate in the community end up getting a little lost on some users who have only been introduced to the phrase and not the discussion behind it. The 'DM is god', 'No D&D is better than bad D&D', and even terms like railroading, powergaming, metagaming, so on.

[lyric idol]

Whoever is saying that is boring.

[lyric viper]

We'll say the thing, thinking we're all on the same page, when actually somehow we're imagining entirely different scenarios. 😅

[woven flint]

My first true character in a long running campaign was a Dark Elf Druid lol

[lyric idol]

Races literally don't mean anything. Unless they pick drow, which means they like suffering from being blind during regular activity.

[woven flint]

Hey, I resent that.

[knotty pasture]

Yeah I agree, optimization for some reason is closely tied to power players

[lean hill]

I mean the high elf has some cool stats

I like the 2014 legacy version more than the current one though

[knotty pasture]

Even though no optimization guide starts with "here's all the spells you need, never pick any utility spells for outside of combat!"

[vale sage]

Hi everyone, I'm returning to discord after 7 years (I think?) to start getting into d&d again.
I know during covid there was a boom and lots of d&d servers were active, but I don't know the current situation.
I'm looking to DM a game, is discord is still as active as it was for d&d back then?

[fiery nimbus]

Frankly, optimization guides are kind of worthless since player should optimize to the table...

[woven flint]

My favorite utility spell is Meteor Swarm, Truly solves every situation

[lyric idol]

It does. And it has some fun stuff. There are just so many races in DND.

[knotty pasture]

Eh I wouldn't say so, the best optimization guides are all designed around no magical items and against terrible odds

If the build can survive terrible odds it can survive almost all tables

[woven flint]

As a wise man once said

There can't be a problem if the problem and everything in a mile radius in it is destroyed

[lyric idol]

My personal favorite is changeling. I've had a fun time playing as a Artificer who sold his magic infusions, ran away, ended the infusions, created new infusions, and scammed someone else with it.

[tropic plank]

Is a donkey that long?

[lean hill]

The cool thing about the high elf cleric is a level 1 still gets a couple extra spells and cantrips

[woven flint]

Lmao, I corrected myself before you made the joke!
Gotta be quicker than that!

[knotty pasture]

By terrible odds I mean nightmare situations like Lost Mines of Phandelver but all enemy encounters are doubled

[woven flint]

Don't tomato me! >:[

[glass granite]

How about cookie?

[fiery nimbus]

what about me

[woven flint]

Lmao

[glass granite]

I was asking if I could throw you at Tokii

[tropic plank]

You were just waiting for someone to mention cookies weren’t you

[next crypt]

Malar sounds like he's good friends with yeenoghu since both are for the hunt

[lyric idol]

Meh optimization smoptimization. I do like to kind of optimize my feats towards a specific playstyle like Sentinel for frontline and such, but everything else is nuance, flavor and how they wanna play it. As long as you aren't antioptimization.

[fiery nimbus]

Survive... as if the DMs are aiming to kill the player characters

[woven flint]

Malar was my Dhampir Moon Druids reason he became a Dhampir, he REJECTED his humanity!

[knotty pasture]

See that's the thing, if you are playing nightmare difficulties I assume the dm is all too willing to TPK your party

[woven flint]

Insert entirety of Jojo's here.

[vernal pelican]

Heyyy

[tropic plank]

If you’re playing a nightmare difficulty campaign I assume the dm is actively playing against the party

[glass granite]

Goooood morning afternoon evening!

[knotty pasture]

Yeah basically, well its one of those high op challenges anyways so I assume the dm has to be up for it to begin with

[woven flint]

I doubt they'd be friends because Yeenoghu as a demon ultimately wants the destruction of everything that isn't him lol

[knotty pasture]

So like if a build can survive in those situations it'll fit in almost any campaign

[woven flint]

Malar just wants the destruction of civilization

[fiery nimbus]

TPK means the campaign is over
hence why i do not fear death

[knotty pasture]

Watching self imposed high op challenges felt like watching a TAS run for video games, equally exciting to see them break past

[tropic plank]

It’ll probably over scale the campaign for the more casual players

[next crypt]

Fair, "friends" might be too strong if a word, thought of

[lyric idol]

You don't fear death because the campaign is over. I don't fear death because I know it means we'll just restart from level 3 on new characters and get even more story and combat then before to account for our previous characters dying and attempting to tie it all in. We are not the same.

[knotty pasture]

Probably yes, but no build is also so powerful it solo carries a party

So ultimately it just means the high op build is more than enough to make you the mvp for a fight

[tropic plank]

Fighting your old party as a lich’s undead servants

[fiery nimbus]

I do believe im actively immortal until proven otherwise and i never died

[woven flint]

Demons in D&D are truly an enigma to me, you'd think theyd want things to live to prolong their suffering...
But they typically just want to kill everything!
Especially Orcus and Baphomet lol

[knotty pasture]

And if you don't want to overshadow your teammates just don't pick the best move

[lyric idol]

Brilliant.

[tropic plank]

They just want to win the blood war

[severe rampart]

Does Heaven exist in DnD?

[knotty pasture]

Yeah

[woven flint]

Yes, kinda

[glass granite]

You’re MasterCookies, not actively immortal
There, disproved

[severe rampart]

So hell also exists?

[woven flint]

Yes, Avernus, which is hell.
Well. A place in hell

[knotty pasture]

Nine Hells, yes

[tropic plank]

It exists but souls go to like eighty different afterlife’s

[fiery nimbus]

check again

[knotty pasture]

Hell is a different thing from where the actual dead go though

[glass granite]

Guh

[remote wadi]

The session Saturday was flooded with nat 20s from my teammates

Funnily enough, despite the Wizard and Druid getting nat 20s on initiative, I still went first on the turn order. My one act of defiance to Lady Luck

[woven flint]

The Abyss is also a thing.
The Abyss is where demons come from and its said to be infinite

[fiery nimbus]

that's what i thought

[knotty pasture]

Btw off topic but I like how all scammer bot accounts from this server all have a certain formula to them

[severe rampart]

In 15 hours will be my first actual "game" Of DnD, which is a one-shot to prepare for my first actual campaign

[woven flint]

So we have
The Celestial Plane, Nine Hells and Abyss

[glass granite]

Helll yeahhh

[knotty pasture]

Its always she/her pronouns, chatgpt made discord bios

[severe rampart]

Just a human ranger with a longbow and a shortsword against the world🤞

[lyric idol]

I gotta friend making a essay on them. I've been engaging with them and sending the chats to my friend. Its so bad in the DND server.

[glass granite]

No arrows? You’re screwed /j

[fiery nimbus]

i had a session 0 yesterday, it was fun since all we did was work out the technical side of things

[severe rampart]

I do have arrows but let's be honest, who keeps track of arrows

[glass granite]

Me
Early game

[tropic plank]

No magic?
You lack a tether to the weave?
Couldn’t be me

[woven flint]

Ranged combat? Eugh.

[severe rampart]

I am level 1

[lyric idol]

Theyre shooting the shortsword smh

[woven flint]

Rangers.. do have magic, lol

[glass granite]

I was the same til- gimme a sec

[glass granite]

Hello level 1, I’m Nugget!

[glass granite]

I was the same till I discovered gun monk

[lyric idol]

Not tethered to the weave though RIP

[severe rampart]

But I do have entangle and another spell which I forgot about

[woven flint]

Silence, Servant of Goofy, or ye shall be banished!

[tropic plank]

You have a fancy net
Incredible

-# /j i love rangers
-# all my homies love rangers

[severe rampart]

It also doesn't help that my Spell Save DC is 9 I think

[tropic plank]

So your net is full of holes

[lyric idol]

Flurry of bullets lmao

[severe rampart]

All nets are full of holes

[woven flint]

I hate Rangers >:]

[remote wadi]

Come to think of it, i did notice that with commission artist spam. They're the same in some ways

[tropic plank]

That’s what I said

[fiery nimbus]

To be honest, with magic being so integral to every DnD setting, i find the idea of someone thinking they are divoid of magic to be silly

[severe rampart]

I do hope that I am not alone in the one-shot, I have subpar intelligence and wisdom

[glass granite]

Idk, I feel like there’s potential there

[tropic plank]

Barbarians think they get power from anger but really their anger is so strong they channel the weave

[woven flint]

ACKSHUALLY
barbarian rage isn't purely anger 🤓 ☝️

[fiery nimbus]

well correct, that would be magic

[tropic plank]

I’m going to enter a rage

[glass granite]

Hi going to enter a rage. I’m Nugget

[tropic plank]

Actually you’re nugget of truths not nugget

[woven flint]

Already raging here, just super nonchalant about it 😎

[lyric idol]

Rage is purely defiance directed at the DM after getting so sick of the DMs BS they just refuse to go down.

[glass granite]

I don’t need to say my full title every time

[woven flint]

Rage doesn't HAVE to be anger though, it can be any strong primal emotion 🧐

[severe rampart]

Oh you son of a

[tropic plank]

I’m so SAD
RAAAAAAAAAAH!

[glass granite]

Hehehehhe

[fiery nimbus]

or it could be a full on magical girl transformation sequence

[woven flint]

My Minotaur Barbarian?
It was Pride. So egotistical he shrugged off their puny attacks