dnd-discussion

[deft pine]

We have one already! Plus a barbarian cleric an druid

[raw ocean]

Letting a raging barbarian cast a level 4 spell

[glass granite]

Play another!

[deft pine]

B-but diversity!

[glass granite]

They can punch, you can punch harder!

[snow zephyr]

Barbarian cleric is underrated

[deft pine]

I was thinking of doing a Minotaur storm seer tribal type. If barbarian and cleric work... might het up to some crazy activities

[glass granite]

Barb clerics sound…counterintuitive. Please enlighten me

[snow zephyr]

Non-concentration spells work best with the build, it also gives you essential range for certain enemies

Being able to heal the party out of combat without draining the main healer is really nice if you're in an area where you're not gonna be able to long rest safely

You could go paladin, but you'd be wasting barbarian entirely that way since you'd have to choose between smites and rage, cleric puts tools in the box without making you choose between your toolboxes

[lyric idol]

Barbarian cleric can work. Issue is, Cleric doesn't work well with light armor. Is taking levels in cleric vs taking a feat that grants cleric spells like cure wounds better? I'd prefer to go feat tbh,

[snow zephyr]

Barbarian unarmored defense works pretty well to fix some of the defensive issues

[lyric idol]

Ig. I guess 3 levels cleric and the rest barbarian wouldn't be bad. Its an interesting combo. I think it'd work better in 2014 when sacred weapon didn't require consentration.

[snow zephyr]

I mostly run 2014, and it's a solid combo

[lyric idol]

I think I'm starting to see the vision. What subclasses are you planning on or are running?

[snow zephyr]

Well, I run berserker barbarian myself. That's not the optimal build by any measure, but it can work with storm herald or totem just fine. For cleric I run trickster if I have a rogue buddy who wants the help for sneaking into position, if it's just melee bruisers then I tend to run war cleric. Iirc, channel divinity doesn't count as spellcasting

[coarse ravine]

What's the cleric use for in barbarian?

[snow zephyr]

The 2014 rage makes it a lot easier to use since you can fall out of rage fairly easily in some contexts and that enables you to cast spells between rages to make up for the loss of rage uses

[lyric idol]

Basic spell casting and a few good subclass features. And if you're playing 2014 you can cast spiritual weapon and deal extra damage.

[coarse ravine]

I just now realized that you can do a 2 level star druid dip and get that for a wildshape

Archer wildshape.

[lyric idol]

That too. Fighter + Druid isn't a bad build.

[coarse ravine]

Allowing you to use jt in barbarian form

You can use the archer as a barbarian which I never thought of this

[snow zephyr]

People tend to gloss over barbarian multi classing because they see the "can't cast spells while raging" and all thought ends after that

[coarse ravine]

So do all your attacks for action then bonus action archer while raging

[coarse ravine]

Im totally making this ^

[lyric idol]

Barbarian is probably one of the better multiclasses. Its below fighter and paladin, but it's above a lot of the others. Rogue you're really only aiming for assassin anyways.

[coarse ravine]

Never thought of this before pretty cool

[coarse ravine]

Agreed

Barbarian is below those 2, but above ranger and rogue

[snow zephyr]

Thief (2014) is really good depending on your build for it

[lyric idol]

Thief is good. Opens up your bonus actions for more versatility.

But if we're being real...Assassin.

[coarse ravine]

Yeah nothing like crit auto

For surprise attacks.

[snow zephyr]

Assassin is pretty decent, but I've always been better with rube Goldberg machines

I cast power word item interaction

[coarse ravine]

Yeah ima try to go 6 level star druid. So the weal and the woe is kinda like a built in ancestral guardian. Then go ancestral guardian.

[lyric idol]

Yknow I really wanna do a 2024 Barbarian + Wild Magic Sorcerer multiclass. 3 levels sorcerer just for wild magic and some quicken spell, and then just rage, trigger magic surge, and attack with advantage.

[snow zephyr]

Build an elf and take elven advantage because milquetoast

[lyric idol]

Truuueee. Or take human and just get free inspiration once a day. And take Musician feat so I can give my entire team free inspiration once per day.

[snow zephyr]

Just build abserd

[lyric idol]

Advantage on advantage on advantage on advantage.

[snow zephyr]

Take lucky too

[lyric idol]

And rage

[lyric idol]

Oml Lucky would just make it absurd.

[deft pine]

I probably might just do tempest cleric with a bit of champion for more crits in melee

[coarse ravine]

Advantage dont stack besides the elven thing

[snow zephyr]

I roll 15 d20, pick one

[glass granite]

I choose the 16th one

[snow zephyr]

Champion is always on

[lyric idol]

No rage doesn't give me advantage. Rage is just the cherry on top lmao.

[coarse ravine]

Mainly meant for this

[snow zephyr]

You could always go tempest+transmutation sorcerer

"I cast balancing issues"

[lyric idol]

Oh ik it doesn't stack, but if somehow my first advantage doesn't work out, inspiration + lucky just means roll roll and roll again.

[coarse ravine]

A build I've always wanted to do was 6 level peace cleric, rest barbarian. So when someone takes damage you can teleport and take the damage

[deft pine]

I may just spin a wheel. Theres like 3 different builds i wanna try. Archfey+thief, chonourgy, stormseer minotaur

[lyric idol]

That would be an interesting build.

[deft pine]

Grave cleric also looks cool

[coarse ravine]

Yeah the peace bond level 6 is alot of fun

[lyric idol]

It works particularly well with Bear totem barbarian too.

[snow zephyr]

Fiend assassin is pretty good

[coarse ravine]

Or Zealot who cant die lol

[snow zephyr]

If you're a bastard then you can run the offensive darkness spell with assassin

[lyric idol]

Yknow just to be absurdly mean to my DM I should do Human + Musician + Lucky + 3 levels wild magic sorcerer and then... the rest Echoknight fighter. Trigger magic surge attack attack action surge quicken spell attack

[deft pine]

I really wanna lean into a prankster archetype which I think thief and archfey warlock would seem to work well for that

[lyric idol]

Oh and Incarnation

[coarse ravine]

Yes quicken combined with action surge is excellent

[pearl hedge]

having the criminal background also helps if you want the alert feat from lvl 1

[snow zephyr]

You're forgetting levels in monk

[lyric idol]

Flurry of blows just to wrap up everything lmao

[snow zephyr]

Step of the DM headache

[coarse ravine]

You can concentrate on a prior spell cast.
Quicken cast a non concentration spell damage or something else.
Action surge cast another spell non concentration. Its like 3 spells one turn

[snow zephyr]

Wait, stunning strike

[lyric idol]

Give my allies advantage too lmao.

My DM would kick me out of the game. But I want to try it once.

[deft pine]

Slippery Bastard Shenanigan build: extra bonus action for mobility or whatever, archfey warlock spells just to be a pain

[snow zephyr]

I think you'd enter minute 30 before you get cut off

[lyric idol]

It'd be one single encounter.

[deft pine]

Might rock eladrin aswell

[snow zephyr]

Hurl through hell lets you run away and do damage

[coarse ravine]

Shadar Kai are nice as well. Can't go wrong with any elf

Wood elfs have a built in only requirement feat lol

To get pass without trace.

[lyric idol]

Realizing 2024 Wild magic sorc is the best multiclass. Period.

[deft pine]

Might do Eladrin purely for the extra fey flavor(and tp on reaction)

[coarse ravine]

What season?

[snow zephyr]

The season of the witch

[coarse ravine]

Warlock

New game should be fun. But technically a witch

[deft pine]

Probably summer. I think summer eladrin look the coolest

[lyric idol]

If its slippery bastard build def summer

[deft pine]

And i dont wanna rp an emo boy winter

[coarse ravine]

Old dm let our player change as the seasons actually change. Could be fun if ya wanted to ask your dm if so... but its winter so yeah no summer. Roll with summer have fun with it.

[lyric idol]

That sounds fun. I'd wanna do that but keep track of the seasons ingame.

[coarse ravine]

Ahh cause they pass quicker nice

[lethal grail]

i’m playing DND for the first time tomorrow!!

[glass granite]

Have fun!
-# ||And don’t die||

[lethal grail]

thank you!! and ill try not to (i only have one character)

[deft pine]

Might see it i can change based on current vibe in the story

[limber trail]

if you die you get to make that two!

[lethal grail]

that’s a good way to think about it!

[glacial pulsar]

What do you guys like better in RP?
Cast-Off armor or Smoldering Armor if you had to choose?
Cast-Off Armor lets you doff your armor as an action
Smoldering Armor: Wisps of harmless, odorless smoke rise from this armor while it is worn.

[limber trail]

Smoldering armour to me is just more fun conceptually

[old sluice]

From a practical point of view, Cast-Off is better

But I could see a character use Smouldering as part of an intimidation tactic

Same way Blackbeard used to allegedly set his beard on fire to interrogate people

[glacial pulsar]

the only practical thing I could see in my imagination is you cast-off your armor right before you go to a onsen/pool/bed/spa/beach

ultimate convenience

[old sluice]

There are other situations where cast off is practical. For example, being targeted by Heat Metal.

[glacial pulsar]

Oh that is smart!

[old sluice]

Or maybe attacked by some sort of parasite that tries to get inside

[glacial pulsar]

Though I'd weigh just attacking the concentrating user as the better solution there if someone casted Heat metal on you

[old sluice]

Or if you fell off a ship

[old sluice]

Sure but what if the caster fled through a wall with a spell or ability that allows them to pass through matter? What if they're well beyond your reach? What if they hid and you can't find them?

Or teleported away?

[glacial pulsar]

Hmm yeah that could happen

[limber trail]

Those are a lot of very specific situations

[old sluice]

Of course, it is all very specific

All situations where you would use cast off are specific

Another specific situation is drowning.

But there are more situations where cast off has a practical benefit than situations where smouldering has a practical benefit

[deft pine]

Me when I use heat metal on the briggand's hold tooth

[glacial pulsar]

I can only think of using Smouldering armor for looking cool or intimidation tactics, or your party can easily identify you in a crowd because of the smoke

[deft pine]

Actually want to make a bandit chief of some such, if my group runs a campaign where it would fit

[old sluice]

And there comes the difference. While cast off has practical benefits and no disadvantages, smouldering can actually be a disadvantage

You are basically broadcasting your approach.

[inner silo]

How similar is baldurs gate 1 and 2 to dnd 5e

[snow agate]

Not

[hot gate]

BG1 and 2 were based on 2e, which was quite a different game from 5e. You might see some similarities here and there, but overall lots of other mechanics.

They were also video games, so it's a modified version of 2e.

Like BG3 is using a modified version of 5e.

[charred panther]

In your opinion, how much of a hindrance to 2014 artificer is the house rule "to use infusion "replica of magical object" you need not only to learn and activate the infusion, but to acquire the "original" object first and spend long rest with it"?

[hot gate]

Seems like a really big hindrance and a risk of "mother may I" gameplay loop, where it depends entirely on the DM if you can use your class features.

[tame kelp]

Yeah sure.

[charred panther]

Well thank you, now I know that I am being extremely salty about it within a reason

[hot gate]

I'd definitely not play an artificer with these houserules in place, I'll say that much

[charred panther]

If I knew about them beforehand, I wouldn't either. But when I thought about which class to choose, DM suggested battle smith artificer since it's his favorite, it sounded right up my alley and I went for it, and this tiiiiny little detail was communicated to me only at level 2, after all the introductions of tightly connected between themselves characters with my friend, when I said "I chose this infusions" and got a response "why would you take replica of Bag of holding, you don't have the original yet?"

After a lot of clarifications and attempts to explain that this is normal artificer thing and trying to talk like adults I just excepted my defeat, cause it wasn't even acknowledged as house rule. And I'm very, very salty, but I do understand, that in general all DMs have rights for "this is my world and I view it this way" rulings, so I came here to check, who is the unreasonable one xD

So now I'm just missing all of magic replica items infusions, cause I don't want to play into "can I please have the thing I should be able to have for free, but for a price beyond only infusion slot and without the whole fantasy"...

[deft pine]

What class best fits a military officer?

Or would they even be a class

[marble lion]

No but they could be

Id personally think theyd have fighter features though

Tactics, morale, fighting expertise

[deft pine]

Its literally right in front of me bro. Battle master no?

[marble lion]

Exactly my choice but there are 2 more i think

[charred panther]

Once I played very reflavored bard as noble military commander, who instead of inspiration gave orders to everyone

But in general fighter battle master sounds the best

[marble lion]

Bannerett and cavalier maybe

[humble cairn]

Many. Battle Master fighter. Glamour Bard

[marble lion]

But keep in mind the military uses magic too

[deft pine]

Why not valour?

[marble lion]

You may want to use a magic class instead your call

[deft pine]

Hm, maybe a half caster

Bard actually sounds like it would fit. Gonna look into that

[earnest orchid]

@weary forge hey bro what is this server Even for?

[hot gate]

I'm sorry that happened to you, that sounds very frustrating. And yes, while DMs have the right to make whatever changes they see fit, players also have to right to walk away from that table.
I'd rather not play than play at a table I'm not having fun at.

Homerules that are introduced in the middle of the campaign are also very frustrating. This should be a session 0 topic.

[stable solar]

Im surprised that s lot of dms dont discuss home rules until it comes up as relevant for something that a player is trying to do personally...

[echo agate]

so just went through this this, this is a massive hindrance and does take away A large portion of artificers powers, just overall, because unless you're planning bag bomb, why need 2, if people are running different weapons, why ever get a +1?

usefulness goes out the window fast

[stable solar]

If you need magic items to use the infusions, dont play artificer at all tbh

[hot gate]

From personal experience, that may often be because they don't know that they want to make a homerule until it comes up. For me that's a sign of inexperience, so it's not bad in itself, but should lead to a discussion with the player that it will affect.

[echo agate]

basically yeah, you're not gonna use them afterwards anyway unless you got like 2 barbs or something, and thats only the +1

during my first ever campaign, i had my Paladin who decided he wanted to die, then immediately created a gunslinger and talked the DM into giving him dual wielding pepperboxes for some reason,

That suddenly ended up being a very boring game for the rest of us, not having played before and kinda just not having the chance to even compare that

[charred panther]

True, it's actually very much in consideration... I tried to make myself leave home more and look where it got me xD
At this point I have this and couple less frustrating things, like "you can't buy this type of cloth anywhere cause you may want to use it to make a sale for a ship and I forbid it", or "you can't have double proficiency in known to you tool at level 6 (game set dragon ante) cause I won't let you outplat every casino in Nyanzaru", while my character didn't ever make any bets while everyone else did, cause it would be ooc for her.

Some of this things are small or reasonable, maybe, but with gutted kit its really.. sad

[charred panther]

Considering we have heavily policed situation with magic items, I presume the "master wants to control what you have" sentiment is correct

[pliant sapphire]

But most of the gameplay of the artificer is around magic items..

[charred panther]

For now I try to have a fun build without replicas, but it gets considerably less fun with time

[hot gate]

Well, there are always more games happening. If you don't want to leave the table, I'd probably ask to play a different class.

though it sounds like that DM probably has homerules for other classes too

[charred panther]

The thing i don't get, if you are DM and is afraid of artificer powers in this particular campaign, why suggest this class to player who didn't have a strong preference in the first place

[echo agate]

if these are problems, i personally feel, in the case of the casino, why would you outright Restrict them from playing rather than figuring a reason that he may lose?

[stable solar]

Might as well just play champion fighter then 😭

[stable solar]

Artificer is a little strong tho tbf, but thats a huge nerf

[hot gate]

It sounds like it's a double case of not understanding the class features and "rules in the moment based on real world logic", which is a pretty feel bad combo.

I've often experienced that from DMs coming from older editions.

[echo agate]

I mean yes, but also that is kinda taking away your entire infusions ability, one of your core traits until you're rich enough to get atleast one of these items anyway, and at that point, why infuse when you've gotten one

[charred panther]

Thats the point. There's even no introduced casinos in game! And no plot relevance whatsoever. It was just a fun idea to explain how photographic memory from Keen mind "helps" with playing cards games where you can count cards (I have proficiency in tool from background + on level 6 double bonus), and I still very easily could lose, and.. and the idea of "how to explain narrative "synergy" between a fit and a class ability" went out of the window, so now my character will hate card games in general

[echo agate]

My DM personally said he is afraid of Artificer crafting a weapon he wouldnt say fit his world, or was so strong no one else mattered (prior experience through the gunslinger aforementioned)

so now i got a personal DM with him, if he gives the word, i'll swap out stuff,

[hot gate]

It stings extra because you could have put that expertise into something that comes up more often rather than what boils down to a roleplay choice.

[echo agate]

from a personal feeling
it's also just a lot more restrictive to go "No, you can't do that" without even trying instead of finding a reason why you may have failed and not even been given the opportunity

[charred panther]

We are playing ToA, and as of now the only way to get magic items not from loot (so not smth DM planned) is to order them for a month long delivery and for a x1,5 price and only unusual ones, and some of them just plainly unobtainable

[stable solar]

Isn't that raw tho?

[hot gate]

Ordering magic items is pretty much always up to the DM. Or do you mean "written as in the adventure"?

[charred panther]

Increased prices in jungle villages and so on are RAW, the Increased prices before making good with corresponding Princes also RAW, the high price of metal armor RAW if I remember correctly

[knotty pasture]

Equipment strapped games?

[charred panther]

At some extent, I think so, ToA has some blocks written in adventure, but not to the extent of "magic items always purchased at max range price + more depending on the relationships with Princes, and always sold for a half of smallest price"

At least it is how we have it for now, and we didn't even leave main city for long and never tried to purchase anything outside of it.

Anyway, my class fantasy was to play aristocratic artificer with a butler, teaset and ability to provide her party with useful magical stuff in a middle of a jungle with a thing in her bag for every dumb aristocratic whim for RP, but in the end I only have a butler and a tea set.

So, lesson learned: don't overinvest in a character in a campaign with new DM, or leaving the game as you should becomes more difficult than it should be xD

[echo agate]

can use that character in another campaign though, for sure

even funnier is using A Homunculus servant as your butler

[deft pine]

Is it realistic to play an experienced military commander as a level 1 realistically? Or is it realistic to just assume theyre early in their career or somethint

[echo agate]

you can, but from my idea you'd been stripped off your rank or military powers during it, as to not have actual forces in the game,

maybe you're still ranked but this specific mission forces you to go undercover and you can't use those under you

[echo agate]

Hell, if flavor allows it, you can probably "link" yourself to them, and you take damage when they do, They're your variant of "firebolts" or something idk, creativity and all

[echo agate]

wait im dumb, you're a battlesmith, LITERALLY A BUILT IN BUTLER ON SUBCLASS

[knotty pasture]

Could be experienced in terms of title or have someone who's never really properly held a sword before

Otherwise you need to introduce other factors to nerf a character down to justify them being level 1, and the adventure is just a way for them to regain lost power

[deft pine]

So like injury or age

[knotty pasture]

It could be, but you should also be able to explain how this character is able to get strong again

[deft pine]

I love hypotheticals about how to make characters work thay die within 3 sessions

[knotty pasture]

Someone having back problems will still have back problems even if they went from level 1 to 5

[charred panther]

I planned to use steel defender for that, yeah xD but then my friend joined and decided to play warforged butler, something like Jeeves, so we even have fun RP with it, and my steel defender is a bionicle like creature who turns into a chair, a table and other very useful in a jungle things, cause a lady never sits on a floor or eats without a fork. But for reuse in the future yes, maybe even in 2024 ruleset since this character is a cartographer and there is a cartographer subclass xD

I swear, if I didn’t hand draw this maps and in character diary and all I'd leave already. With a butler and a tea set

[echo agate]

i made an entire gimmick character on rogue, with terrible CON, only for the guy to end up a vampire due to a very not great combat

he's still alive, but radiant is pretty much a death sentence now

[glass granite]

Well, you had terrible con. I’m not surprised

[echo agate]

Extra thing is learning incantation mending, I think it works on 2014 warforged

[stable solar]

I believe if you cast mending on warforged it let's them use their hit die

Might be autognomes tho...

[deft pine]

Kcd2 did a decent explanation. A really gnarly situation that had a terrublr effect on the mc's confidence but not too much on skill

[echo agate]

i know it works for autognomes, and i think warforged but not sure on that one

[echo agate]

even better is the transition took 4 CON away and gave me some strength, so im a 6 CON Rogue who takes double damage from radiant,

i'm having a blast, always wondering when i'm about to get smited into oblivion

[charred panther]

Isn't mending a cantrip?
Or incantation is a different mending (sorry, second language) - cause for cantrip it doesn't work, I think...

[buoyant oar]

Warforged do not get hit die from mending.

[echo agate]

might just be me who's gotten used to reading 2024 artificer recently, so i can be wrong

[echo agate]

or i mixed up autognomes/warforged, fair enough

[charred panther]

Yeah, probably 2024 thing. Well, if we ever will play this characters again, it look like they fit best with 2024 rules xD

[echo agate]

2024 artificer seems pretty fun from looking, about to start the first session today actually

Playing an artificer elf kid, who's just very openly interested in learning about machines, with poor social skills (to accomodate my own habits of both Speaking insanely fast and stuttering)

a friend pointed out this sounds a lot like deku from MHA, and... yeah that's actually pretty accurate

was not the intention, it was mostly to help me better play into it through my own speaking problems

[humble cairn]

The issue isn't realism, since realism isn't really a goal of the genre anyway, the issue is appropriateness for the narrative. I feel like level 1 characters should not have too much in their backstory because the coolest stuff is supposed to happen after the backstory, in actual play. As such, a low level commander of a small regiment with only a few battles to your name cuold be appropriate. Seems around Folk Hero level.

[echo agate]

i have some pretty cool stuff in mine, though that was because the setting he wants is for everyone to be cursed, and he immediately cooked something up based on previously aforementioned stuff (and needed a reason/way for me to be cursed)

[humble cairn]

The Earnest Young Protagonist is a pretty fundamental trope, so don't worry. It's not just Deku, there's plenty of others as well.

[charred panther]

Ooh, sounds fun! I love when people use their advantages/disadvantages for characters - once my friend, who slightly whistles with every Sss sound and me, who can't pronounce hard R, played a serpent person and a French person

[echo agate]

that's an amazing setup ngl

[deft pine]

Thats a really fair take. It makes sense how very limited levels of experience, as in one to three minor skirmishes and say an officer school would be similar to a wizard learning firebolt or a bard learning the lute at a very respectable level

[charred panther]

Yeah, it's not that character can't be experienced at first level, just... not experienced in adventuring specifically, so the story just starts.

I love characters with desk jobs for that

[shy stirrup]

I agree with that take. A regimental commander is implausible, as is a field-grade officer. Your level 1 should be a very junior officer, a platoon leader, ideally very young, and a recent military academy graduate.

[deft pine]

I might go as far as to learn low level battle tactics as in real life stuff to rp better

[deft pine]

Good ideas. Maybe a sort of leader role in an enlisted group of sorts.

[charred panther]

Love when people learn entry level stuff or terminology for RP, it makes it so much more fun. I learned basic first aid to RP battle medic better, it still may come useful xD

[shy stirrup]

I use real-world battle tactics to challenge my players 🤷‍♂️

[deft pine]

I see in us military tiktoks that lieutenants, while in a "leadership role", are actually pretty clueless and green even compared to enlisted guys who've just been there for a year or so

[charred panther]

As long as it works

[deft pine]

I also want to kind of sound like im talking about. Not in a wise way, but quoting sun tzu in a setting that doesnt even apply at all to sound smart and try to rally

[limber trail]

A leader of maybe 5-6 underlings is potentially justifiable. Remembering, level 1 adventurers is one tier above commoner. You might get value checking out the warrior veteran stat blocks for a comparison of what different warriors of different esteem can do, or more generally their power level in a setting

[humble cairn]

Maybe we can go over to #character-discussion and dig deeper into this character?

[charred panther]

BTW, have anyone encountered use of AI for creating not character portraits, but like... you know how sometimes people draw funny skits with fresh situations from previous game session? Like that, basic comic things, but with AI generated party with very surface level resemblance and very basic everything

I just want to know, is it popular in dnd community as of late or I'm just that lucky.

[idle oar]

It's more a matter of how "big" AI is in the zeitgeist so that will lend to it being used and showing up more widely across niches

[charred panther]

Fair

[knotty pasture]

The earlier convo's giving me inspiration over what to do with one of my PCs which has a Folk Hero background

[charred panther]

Inspiration is always welcome

[upper lintel]

So i finnaly decided to play baulder gate 3 for the first time . For one this is truly one of the best rpg ive played if not the best . this is one the best dnd experience ive had . I made it to the underdark

Best part never seen spoilers

[shy stirrup]

It is very good, be aware there is a #baldurs-gate-3-spoilers channel but as the name says, there may be spoilers, I'd probably suggest avoiding it until you've completed your first playthrough

[upper lintel]

Thanks yeah its also a great alternative for people who cant play dnd in real life or dont have friends to play in real-life. The game is special

[tawdry sentinel]

Learning the technical terms for the various parts of a boat so the naval engineer at the table doesn't think I'm an ejit.

[deft pine]

Spoiler: game good

👹

[elfin bison]

Minor illusion lets you choose what voice and what volume you use

Would I be able to cast it at a low volume right next to someone's ears, so only they hear it, and make them think there's a voice inside their head?

[stark arch]

as a paladin wat should you focus more atributes points on lvl 4 and higher? charisma or strenght ??

[pliant sapphire]

For a standard paladin: Strenght > Charisma

[stark arch]

oath breaker

thinking getting my spel save dc as high as posible for controll undead and saving throw spells

[shy stirrup]

You can cast it a low volume next to someone's ears, but would *you * would be fooled into thinking that if I, say, put my phone behind your head and played a recording of a voice?
DM discretion, but this might only make sense with a creature of low or very low intelligence.

[pliant sapphire]

if you dip 1 lvl on warlock you can use pact of the blade and attack with charisma. So you can full focus con CHA first

[stark arch]

melee attack with charisma ?

[elfin bison]

Valid valid

I'll try it anyways, to see if it would or would not work

Otherwise I'll just use the spell for aura points

[pliant sapphire]

Yeah:

Pact of the blade
As a Bonus Action, you can conjure a pact weapon in your hand—a Simple or Martial Melee weapon of your choice with which you bond—or create a bond with a magic weapon you touch; you can't bond with a magic weapon if someone else is attuned to it or another Warlock is bonded with it. Until the bond ends, you have proficiency with the weapon, and you can use it as a Spellcasting Focus.
Whenever you attack with the bonded weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity; and you can cause the weapon to deal Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant damage or its normal damage type.

[stark arch]

intresting

[tawdry sentinel]

It is quite common to just take paladin to whatever level you get their subclass aura and then multiclass into warlock or sorcerer.

[knotty pasture]

You do also need 13 str to multiclass out of Paladin too

[blissful ibex]

or if 5e.24, you could use a quarterstaff or club and grab magic initiate - druid as your origin feat for shillelagh

MI allows you to change it to use charisma

[knotty pasture]

Most practical for Cleric imo

[stark arch]

my paladin got 15 str for his plate armor set

[tawdry sentinel]

Does this require a custom background.

[knotty pasture]

My homebrew rule would be changing the multiclass requirements from 13 str/cha to 13 con/cha

No that's just a feat, no specific background required

[blissful ibex]

Guide would be the standard option that provides it
Custom would be better ofc, if allowed

alternatively you just take it as a normal feat

[pliant sapphire]

Or be a human

[still plover]

On illusions: #character-discussion message

[elfin bison]

Thxxx

[still plover]

I'm a little proud of the field of knives illusion. It really feels like it'd be believable in a fight, that someone would try to put a dangerous spell as a ward for their back line and being just knives there's no expectations like heat or sound compared to if you did fire.

[tame forge]

Hey anyone have good reccomendations on spells for magical secrets for a necro bard? 7th level spell or below..

Kinda overwhelmed and not sure what to take.

Soooo many options that I am having decision paralysis lol.

[raven kernel]

I’d only do that to make them stub there little toe on a failed Dex save.

[humble cairn]

I've used Minor Illusion fairly well myself. 5ft door? Make an illusory one, then open the door. You can see through it, but enemies can't so you can Advantage to shoot through it.

[prisma mason]

Well you obviously get stuff like raise dead,speak with dead, resurrection,etherealness and the rest is kinda whatever you feel like theirs no real wrong awnser to what spells you want

Tasha's hideous laughter is great btw

[humble cairn]

Being a gnome, I asked my DM if I could make an illusion of a canvas painting with a hyper realistic portrait of an empty hallway to hide behind and do the same thing.

[shy stirrup]

I love how illusion magic rewards player creativity

[pliant sapphire]

Yeah, but is very DM dependant too

[shy stirrup]

True

[hollow stone]

i had a friend cast Illusion when we were hiding in a basement to make it appear as if there were just stairs leading down to a wall

[tame forge]

I get that but having access to every spell on every spell list is a lot.

[tawdry sentinel]

Using minor illusion to basically cast blindness is always a bit wooly to me. If you're repeating it every/ every other turn it's more reasonable.

[tame forge]

Minor Illusion is by far my fav cantrip also.

Sooo many use cases.

[humble cairn]

I mean, they can't see through it unless they either physically interact with it or they take a whole Action to Investigate it.

[tame forge]

Which usually takes a little bit.

Esp if you arent front line.

[humble cairn]

Technically by the spell, just an Action.

[tame forge]

Im not talking about that.

I mean like if your barbarian is up front fighting and you are using within line of sight spells or something they arent going to think about or consider the closed door for a while.

More importiant to deal with barb or front line, before trying to open the door. Archers and Mages won't want to walk up to door until it's safe either.

So unless its their frontline its usually pretty safe.

[humble cairn]

Oh yeah, they have to deliberately take the Study Action, which might not be a high priority in the middle of combat.

[tame forge]

Right

[humble cairn]

It's great when you have time to prep the field.

[tame forge]

100%

Also good for deception, in RP.

[humble cairn]

Gnome is the perfect size to hide in an illusory rock, bush, or barrel.

Once we had a mission to protect a chest from possible raiders. Two of us had Minor Illusion. One put an illusion of a barrel on the real chest and the other put an illusion of the real chest on a barrel.

The thieves never got close to their target.

[hollow stone]

are there any rules about deploying Dancing Lights as a humanoid to just block an enemy's line of sight by getting uncomfortably close to them and glowing?

[humble cairn]

They had to fight through us to get to the "chest" before figuring out it was an illusion, and then the fight was half way over.

[tame forge]

Some DM's will allow it but by RAW it won't work.

[tawdry sentinel]

As soon as a firebolt comes through the wall the illusion is shattered.

Obviously you can sit perfectly still as an illusionist and go minor illusion BA, firebolt at advantage, repeat. Which is basically what a ranged rogue is doing. Or you can spam a saving throw spell that doesn't involve a projectile and basically be out of LOS.

But when I used to DM adventurers league at the LGS you'd get people dropping a box on people's head mid combat and trying the whole "they're blinded until their turn, so everyone has advantage against them" Which irked me as being bad faith. Very YouTube DND, not particularly inventive.

[tame forge]

Much funnier to use minor illusion on a real chest full of venomous snakes. Then cover the snakes with an illusion of treasure.

[humble cairn]

We were not supplied with snakes.

[tame forge]

A truley unfortunate oversight,

[shy stirrup]

I'm picturing a bald British man with a beard yelling, "Here's how you can win every combat by putting a box over monster's heads!!"

[humble cairn]

I mean, why though? I don't think that's necessarily how Minor Illusion works.

[raw ocean]

Personal experience, why do some D&D players hate the French?

[humble cairn]

That ... seems really out of left field.

[raw ocean]

Ok it seems as if I just got into like three campaigns with the same census

Odd luck

[humble cairn]

Do you play with people from the US?

[tame forge]

I thought most people hated the French.

[hollow stone]

tbh that's just a bizarre sector of internet culture, i've never heard a real reason other than "racism funny"

[tame forge]

I personally loved Paris and the people there.

[tawdry sentinel]

It's broken by physical interaction, doesn't specify who. So if you shoot through it, that shot is at advantage, and then the illusion isn't illusioning anymore and needs to be recast.

I could very well be wrong.

[raw ocean]

I do usually, they spoke to a French merchant and didn’t trust him

[tame forge]

I maeaaaan.... fair tho.

[humble cairn]

Can we maybe not generalize like this?

[tame forge]

I could but I choose not to.

[raw ocean]

Well actually that would be considered xenophobic, it’s like racism but for different countries

[hollow stone]

any time you mention the french some little worm is going to crawl out of the woodwork and profess how they hate the french because they think they're funny

[tame forge]

[humble cairn]

It just seems insensitive and directed toward people of a specific nationality.

[hollow stone]

oh okei, mb, thx u!!

[tame forge]

Meh, it's an ongoing joke initiated by multiple French men I play games with daily.

[raw ocean]

Also French is actually a global language spoken in like 29 countries, so I think the hate is for people who speak French since it sounds either goofy or untrustworthy to English speakers

[humble cairn]

Yeah okay, but that doesn't make it okay with server rules.

[raw ocean]

But onto a different topic

What’s the best language in D&D?

Other than common

[tame forge]

Undercommon is and always has been the best even beating out common.

[humble cairn]

"What's the best X?" is generally not a super useful question to ask about a game which the point is having fun, and is thus subjective.

[hollow stone]

this is probably a DM thing but i've found Common Sign Language to come up a lot in some campaigns

[tawdry sentinel]

Goblin

Someone will have all your boring elvish, dwarvish etc. covered

You wanna be able to sweet talk the bad guys

[tame forge]

Goblins arent the bad guys they are the fodder. Thats why you learn undercommon and speak with the real bad guys.

[hollow stone]

it's very good for stealthy communication when you aren't allowed to make noises

[tame forge]

Checkmate.

[raw ocean]

I personally like to believe that dwarvish is just being able to understand extremely heavy slurred common

[blissful ibex]

Whichever one fits your character
none of them are 'best' as which oens are used heavily depend on the content being run, and even then, if not knowing a language prevents you from continuing with the story, the DM is doing it wrong

[humble cairn]

I'm a huge fan of them adding CSL into the common languages list.

[tawdry sentinel]

If you spoke goblin you'd know they're so much more than fodder. Rich culture, fascinating history.

[blissful ibex]

love me some CSL

[raw ocean]

I’d say thieves can’t is one of the more useful ones

[tame forge]

You want slaves... Undercommon... You want someone to kill your arch nemesis's dog... Undercommon... You want someone to hunt down cursed objects... Undercommon... You want someone to be publically sacrificed... Undercommon.

It checks all the importaint marks.

[raw ocean]

Makes sense

[blissful ibex]

rare language though

[tame forge]

Which one?

[blissful ibex]

undercommon

[tame forge]

Literally used all over the continent. its as common as undercommon.

[raw ocean]

Common but evil

[tame forge]

You just have to... and this is a shocker. Enter the underdark.

[blissful ibex]

mechanically, in the PHB, it is listed as a 'rare' language
is what I'm saying

[tame forge]

Explicitally because most campaigns don't explore the underdark. However in the same vein it is also cannon to be used all over the continent and be the main language for those of the underdark.

It's as common as common but mentioned as rare cause most players will never see the underdark.

[raw ocean]

Maybe it’s like Spanish compared to English?

[buoyant oar]

Yeah, it's considered a rare language because most D&D material is written from the POV of somebody from the surface. And most people don't go cave diving into the worst possible caves of all time as a hobby.

[tame forge]

^

[raw ocean]

Cave diving gotta be the worst hobby

[blissful ibex]

not if you play a plasmoid

[tame forge]

It's actually really fun! I don't like to mix water and caves IRL but dry caves Im in all the time.

[buoyant oar]

What I'm super happy made a return in the new FR books are regional local languages.

In the Realms common is a sort of pigdin trade language. And it's absolutely nobody's primary tongue.

[raw ocean]

I’m talking about the “here we are in the devil’s playground where you have to go through this 2 inch wide hole to see a cool rock!”

(Read in Australian accent)

Regular cave diving is cool though

[buoyant oar]

It makes complete sense for regional tongues to exist on the surface. In a fantasy setting. I understand for gameplay reasons why common needs to exist. But I think it adds a lot of depth to the world if somebody from the Dale lands can't fully understand somebody Calimshan

[hollow stone]

idk the concept of getting stuck and just having to wait for death scares me too much so i'm not gonna go near a cave that isn't built by man

[tawdry sentinel]

I like this in Draw Steel that you get a mechanical bonus if you speak the same actual language as whoever you're talking to and not using common.

[raw ocean]

“I want my fantasy caves to be built by man, I will not accept any dwarven caves because they are 3 feet wide!”

How big are dwarven caves anyways?

[buoyant oar]

Depends on the dwarf

[hollow stone]

i mean dwarven caves are fine but i'm gonna go around with an OSHA handbook and if i see more than 2 violations i am gone

[humble cairn]

Oh my gosh, after watching the documentary about the Thailand Cave Rescue, I am never going near caves full of water.

[eager marsh]

Dwarven caves are famously larger than they are and suitable for other races you’re thinking kobold caves

[raw ocean]

Oh I forgot dwarves like to mine so much, makes sense for huge caves

[eager marsh]

Also architecture

[still plover]

Languages can be thorny. There's a reason Star Trek has a universal translator. I feel if you want regional flavour, maybe a few terms that aren't strictly Common can help.

You go to the magistrate and say, "Good day, sir," and you immediately mark yourself as an outsider. You say, "Bright morning, magir," and you're using the local custom and title, they're more likely to be receptive.

[eager marsh]

Kobolds don’t care and most caves are intentionally designed to collapse on command and only fit them

[tawdry sentinel]

I always view Dwarven caves as being properly cavernous.

"We've got a full size cathedral in the heart of a mountain and your roof supports are struggling with that 8ft mine shaft? Pathetic"

[eager marsh]

They’re canonically better miners than dwarves

They just don’t give a damn about architecture or aesthetic for it

[buoyant oar]

Like I said, I completely understand them from a gameplay perspective in terms of utilizing common. It also hits the point home that especially in a campaign setting like the Realms. If you're trying to go all over the continent, you've already screwed up.

Most regions that you're supposed to really play and have a distinct local language and so when outsiders come from outside, having them speak just perfect fluent common Kings English can break the immersion a little bit for me at least.

[still plover]

Oh yeah, I'm with you. Perhaps a house rule for regions of Common. Everyone knows the base language, but there are local subtleties that can trip or mislead a non-local speaker.

[crimson gulch]

kinda like how most of my family from newfoundland that "speak english" have some trouble being understood off the rock

[buoyant oar]

That is how I use common. It's trade only. A Calishite Vizir and a Rashemaar Wycharlarn can converse. But they will lack idioms, and it will not be broken but clearly not a comfortable way of speaking.

Like how the Nilfgardians speak in the Witcher 3.

[shy stirrup]

Think of all the variations in the English speaking world, and yes that's how I handle Common too, regional differences

written off as dialect, inject "foreign" words, borrowed ones or made up, use idioms that don't seem to make any sense

"Will the rain hurt the rhubarb, I wonder?"

All in service of: you're not in Kansas anymore, Dorothy

[raven kernel]

playing a divination wizard, and found out there kinda isn’t a way to look into the future in dnd, so im gonna propose something to my DM. Although it isn’t a written on paper feat, and it would help my DM if he wants to use it.

Future Sight: the DM can give a the Player visions of something if he wants to make something clear to the party.

[deft pine]

If i revive someone with a spell, do they still lose an action atleast

[undone pilot]

Does this server have online sessions

[hollow stone]

that's cool!! just like, don't super super set your heart on that being a thing that happens, because it might not

[raven kernel]

Playing a drow shaping fate already with portent and with a mimic spell book, im happy as I already am.

[old sluice]

I just use "common" to mean "whichever language is the most common in the place the campaign takes place in"

If the campaign is set in the nine hells, common is infernal.

[charred panther]

I played a divination priestess in a different setting, with augury, star reading, tarot-reading and so on, and the collaboration with DM was so cool! He gave me vague descriptions based on actions or used spells or even tarot reading, and it corellated to story in different ways. One of the coolest was star map, that after decoding gave Control-style predictions, like "enemy/rival will achieve the goal/target, if songbird/new beginnings will not change the way", and it turned out to be about the NPC who won the heart of another NPC instead of revolutionary bard

The DM was awesome, if yours will be willing to play with the idea of predictions it may turn out very fun

[hollow stone]

oh no way i just finished Control a few days ago

[bitter spindle]

So then, what makes an oathbreaker an oathbreaker?

A Paladin without an oath?

[distant musk]

Yoo

[hollow stone]

an oathbreaker is someone who directly severed their connection to the whatever it was the first time for evil purposes

[knotty pasture]

A Paladin who broke their oath so severely that there's no chance of redemption

[bitter spindle]

Does it have to be for an evil purpose?

[knotty pasture]

Dark ambition or evil goal it says

Officially, an Oathbreaker can only be Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil too

But since its just a class its completely up to the DM

[still plover]

Games aren't hosted here, but it does offer services to organise them. #find-a-game can help get started with that.

Alternatively, check out LFG on Reddit, the website Roll20 or the D&D Beyond forums to find more.

[spare vessel]

I just got out of basic and in my free time I started to play DND with this guy who has been playing for years and we did everything on paper and I liked it can anyone give me any tips or anything to start playing

[terse dune]

winter sale means its time to drop $250 on buying books cus you've been meaning to

[spare vessel]

as a new player

[knotty pasture]

Its really easy to have a whole team of undead based classes in general even though they all sound positively evil from a glance

[bitter spindle]

Here’s a thought, a Paladin granted oathbreaker status for the sake of being able to do whatever is necessary to save the world, that would otherwise break other oaths

[knotty pasture]

I mean sure that's basically the bg3 way of going about it

[still plover]

Well, any class or sub is just a bucket of mechanics, ultimately, but there's this:

"An oathbreaker is a paladin who breaks their sacred oaths to pursue some dark ambition or serve an evil power. Whatever light burned in the paladin's heart been extinguished. Only darkness remains."

So that kinda biases me, personally. That, and they were introduced to 5e in the DMG implying their use at the DM's discretion.

[knotty pasture]

You can oath break as early as the second fight of the game and save the world that way, while picking every oathbreaking option where possible as an oathbreaker

[terse dune]

break an oath by sayin "I really can't fight that big evil monster"

does that make you inherently evil?

[knotty pasture]

Well no cuz not fighting something doesn't necessarily break oath

Siding with that evil will break oath however

Really depends on how strict your dm takes it

I personally would just give a slap on the wrist at most, and expect players to not deviate too far from their oaths in the first place

If they wanted to do that I'd let them run Oathbreaker from the start

[still plover]

I feel there's a fundamental difference between failing to uphold your oath and intentionally breaking it by misuse of the powers it grants you.

The question is then: what tenets does an oathbreaker have to hold to?

[raven kernel]

that's awsome, honestly it really is.

[humble cairn]

Ideologically Oathbreakers having an Oath makes very little sense unless it is a very nihilistic Oath.

Tenets about Oaths being pointless and virtues being meaningless.

Tear down meaning, degrade virtue, hold nothing sacred.

[hollow estuary]

This would make it op as hell and it's already a strong subclass. But it would make sense in my opinion that high level abberant mind sorcerers could concentrate on two spells at once. Because of their well abberant nature of their mind. Wouldent allow it but its interesting to think about

[humble cairn]

Which makes for a character more suited to be an NPC than a PC.

[still plover]

In principle I see your point, but:

A paladin is an individual of some deep-held convictions that translate into powerful features, right? Oathbreakers still have access to that same level of power, but what's driving it now? What twisted convictions are enabling them?

[humble cairn]

I dunno about OP, but it would certainly not be conducive to the flow of a game.

[humble cairn]

Literal rejection of meaning. Not "I don't have anything to believe in" but rather "I will kill belief itself"

I will defile your holy places and make a mockery of your demons. Anything you place your faith in, I will rend into meaninglessness.

[hot marlin]

That's beautiful.

[humble cairn]

It's the only thing I can think of that makes ideological sense for "Oathbreaker."

[hot marlin]

Making me love those oathbreakers. They're trying to free us from the horrors of meaning.

They're actually heroes.

[humble cairn]

But again ... this doesn't actually make for great PCs.

[hot marlin]

Hi, Incubus here. Did you know I am not a fiend?

[hollow estuary]

" B-but we are ment to purge heretics, heretics dont purge us 😢 "- Grœg, Orc, Oath of Devotion Paladin level 5.

[still plover]

Wheeling it back to the specifics, they don't pop from nothing. Everything oathbreaker held true to some oath, once. How about flipping the script on Ancients or Devotion and seeing where that takes us?

[humble cairn]

When you believed in something so strongly that it gave you Paladin powers and then somehow went through something that made you not only lose that faith, but somehow violently reject it? Yeah, the opposite direction of an Oath isn't spooky evilness .. it's Anti-Oathfulness.

[hollow estuary]

Characters only swearing a oath at level 3 is kinda weird. are you just crusading for the hell of it before you swear the oath?

" I HORGAN BELIEVE IN... I dont know yet. "

[humble cairn]

No, you are learning what you truly believe as well as proving your worth to swear such a powerful thing.

[hollow estuary]

makes sense.

[turbid vessel]

Think of it like a sorcerer getting their subclass at level 3. The magic is there, you're just learning to harness it. Level 3 is when you harness it enough that it manifests subclass specific powers

[hollow estuary]

What about divine domain then? Do level 1 clerics not worship a domain?

[humble cairn]

No, they don't

[hot marlin]

And what is this path? This meaning, this purpose to which we gather the skulls of our foes?
It is nothing.
There is no meaning, no purpose.
We murder. We kill.
It is mindless savagery. This universe if MINDLESS.
In mere hours, billions will die. Innocent. Guilty. Strong and weak. Honest and deceitful. ALL of them.
They will scream, they will burn, and for no purpose.
And united in this void of purpose, fear, or duty...we shall at long last be free.

Azariah Kyras, Oathbreaker paladin

[knotty basin]

They do, they just don’t get powers from it yet

[humble cairn]

They worship a diety or a principle. The domain is simply the specific portion of the divine portfolio that you are blessed with.

Clerics do not worship a Domain.

[turbid vessel]

Thinks make a lot more sense when you view the subclass flavor as descriptive rather than prescriptive

[humble cairn]

Well ... unless they have Faith in that specific principle of reality itself.

[hot marlin]

I'm not sure why someone would have faith in a principle of reality

[humble cairn]

Our duty is to purge Creation of hateful Purpose.

[humble cairn]

I mean it's like someone worshipping Justice itself rather than Tyr.

[hot marlin]

This would require believing in justice as a thing in itself rather than a social agreement or mental construct

[humble cairn]

Yeah, probably.

[hot marlin]

But yeah, I guess a character could do that

[turbid vessel]

That's not so far fetched in a universe where divine constants are an established thing

The outer planes are pretty much that, the manifestations of pure insert thing

[hollow estuary]

Interesting. Okay. And for warlocks it's like " oh. Yeah I know I get power from this thing but I don't know what he is. "

[hot marlin]

Yes but doesn't that actually prove justice to be a social construct? Tyr is god of justice, he gets to define what justice is. This means justice exists as an idea first, then a god is required to make it a thing, if it even is one

[humble cairn]

Am anti-Ancients Oath would be ... Somber as all hell. Like it would regard celebration as somehow disrespectful to reality.

[turbid vessel]

Could be! The patron could also just be testing you, giving you small powers before they give you a full kit. There's several creative options with all the classes!

[hollow estuary]

And you see. This is why tyr is a greater diety despite justice being his ONLY DOMAIN. Justice is a REALLY STRONG DOMAIN YO

[humble cairn]

Or it could be a Warlock just starting their experiments with Eldritch Powers, making small deals with small entities and working their way up the chain.

[turbid vessel]

Depends on your perspective of what the gods are (even DND isn't consistent about this )

[uncut zenith]

I liken it to a job trial or an internship. An “employer” gives you some resources to see what you can do with them, and when you’ve proven to be a model employee, they give you the full kit and an “offer of employment”.

[hollow estuary]

DND trying to set requirements and limitations for gods while also trying to avoid loopholes that make players become gods

[hot marlin]

I liken it more to gardening. Level 1 and 2 of warlock is preparing the dirt and the earth and the mud. Level 3 is planting the seed

Seed can't survive without the soil being properly prepared

[turbid vessel]

I liken the word liken

[hollow estuary]

Hexblade warlocks have a pretty strong case for starting with a magic weapon. Because that magic weapon could be their patron

[uncut zenith]

That’s kinda what the Blade pact is for

[turbid vessel]

2024 warlocks can start with blade pact so that's kinda covered

[hot marlin]

I go around it by having the weapon either be tattooed on their skin or having it stuck inside their body

Like a dagger plunged inside your liver. It hurts but it does not actually wound and you can't take it out

[valid geyser]

I'm a little miffed on how 2024 changes the warlock flavor where it's not reccomended you can have a personal relatonship with your patron and its more shown as a mysterious benefactor

like, its a completely aesthetic change but its just not for me

[uncut zenith]

I don’t really care for the flavor of Hexblade, so typically I just do what Mercer did in the Mighty Nein campaign and say the “Hexblade patron” isn’t actually the weapon, it’s the being who bestowed that weapon to the warlock.

[turbid vessel]

I do love unique relationships between warlock and patron

[hot marlin]

Well I do greatly enjoy Stormcaller and Elric dynamics

[turbid vessel]

I've got a fiend warlock idea set up where the relationship is basically "we're BOTH so screwed, let's make a pact as a last ditch survival tactic"

[hot marlin]

That is basically the start of Drakenguard.

[valid geyser]

same here, I think that definitely adds a lot more than just the weapon as the patron, but even then in a perfect world I feel like pact of the blade should stand strong enough to where that flavor can be for any type of patron

[hot marlin]

Please do not make a Drakenguard themed campaign. The least monstrous party member in that game likes to kill and eat children

[turbid vessel]

Fiend: I don't get it, you're a gunslinger, aren't you?
Warlock: well, kinda. I play a gunslinger as part of an act for a travelling circus. These guns are decorational.
Fiend: so you're not an adventurer? Or even a mercenary?
Warlock: I do birthday parties.
Fiend: oh my God we're both going to die...

[valid geyser]

thats kinda my dilemma where i dont feel like hexblade needs to exist and it'd be preferable to have pact of the blade stand on its own (something i find a tad lacking in stuff like the defensive department) but I know it's never not gonna exist

people want it in 2024 and wotcs gonna cater to that

[turbid vessel]

At the very least, the mechanics of 2024 (playtest? I dunno if it's released yet) hexblade are pretty agnostic

[umbral girder]

It has not been released

[valid geyser]

thats also kind of the issue, i feel kinda like there's no point if hexblade doesnt pidgeonhole you into weapon usage, you often end up with the gish problem otherwise
I do like the second UA hexblade's feature of giving an AC bonus when youre in 10 feet of your curse, that's just a well designed defensive feature for a gish

[turbid vessel]

I dunno I'm kinda into the idea of taking the hexblade subclass and not taking pact of the blade, sounds like a fun creative challenge

[crimson gulch]

we still dont know when the next DND books are coming out or what they are

[valid geyser]

i mean most hexblades in 2014 were better off without being bladelocks

[remote wadi]

Hey, chat. Remember that one person who talked about the immortal Mary Sue character?

[gray garden]

Just seal them away

[remote wadi]

How funny would it be if someone casted vicious mockery and said that the reason she's immortal is because Death keeps swiping left?

[gray garden]

Very

[remote wadi]

How many d6s of psychic damage would we be looking at?

[gray garden]

But again immortally doesn’t mean much if your soul gets snatched from your body

[umbral girder]

The same amount the spell always does

[remote wadi]

That's my attempt at saying "rate the roast"

Instead of "on a scale of 1 to 10", saying "how many d6s" sounded funnier

[gray garden]

If an npc casted banishment on a PC that’s a fey would they be sent to the fey wild

[remote wadi]

Anyways, soul snatching isn't always available

I prefer the tried and true of endless torture

[gray garden]

Well you could always try removing it

[blissful ibex]

Makes me think of the old "On a scale from one to thirty four, I feel around a twenty one." When asking someone what their health looks like

[gray garden]

Sphere of Annihilation:

[remote wadi]

Where's the fun in that? Trying to cheese immortality is more boring and ineffective than making them regret seeing immortality as a blessing

[gray garden]

Usually one someone makes a Mary Sue character it’s extremely easy to poke hole after hole them by asking questions

[hollow stone]

tbh the best way to dispose of an immortal is just put them in a room they can't leave. sure, the boredom and silence will drive them to a madness worse than death, but they're the immortal one

[gray garden]

Like what would character do if hit with A or B:

[remote wadi]

This proves my point more. Monkey's Paw immortality

[gray garden]

I prefer to strip them of there immortality

[blissful ibex]

If they don't know any transport spells, just stick them in an empty Demiplane

[gray garden]

i cast two bags of holding

[remote wadi]

Stripping them of their immortality isn't always possible if a DM enables it

The alternative is possible by both dm and players alike

[blissful ibex]

need the ol' bag of holding + portable hole arrow

[gray garden]

Steal immortally spell in my back pocket:

Becoming immortal is weirdly easy in dnd if your dm plans it right as well

[remote wadi]

But it is often just a cheap way of making sure you don't have to make another character

[gray garden]

I don’t know if you go through the effect of like pleasing an arch devil so much they give you or a boon or becoming a lich I feel like you don’t need another character

[blissful ibex]

Don't even have to mess around with clone shenanigans or anything either, at least once the new Transmuter Wizard UA hits live (so long as they don't change it terribly much)

[remote wadi]

No, I mean being immortal right off the bat

[gray garden]

How does one.. start off as an immortal?

[remote wadi]

Homebrew junk. DM enabled that sort of thing

Not my dm. The person who talked about that campaign a few days ago

[blissful ibex]

every player species lives like ~100 years unless otherwise stated IIRC

[gray garden]

There’s.. so many that don’t

[blissful ibex]

hence the unless otherwise stated

[shy thistle]

So why say every

[umbral girder]

Last I checked most races actively do not go 100 years

[shy thistle]

If you’re gonna make a large section of exceptions what’s the point of generalizing

[gray garden]

What Vel meant

most races lives over or under 100

[blissful ibex]

because if not otherwise stated, they live to ~100

[gray garden]

That’s.. not even remotely true..

[hollow stone]

i think we should have all races be crocodiles, they just live until something kills them, like disease or injury

[shy thistle]

So basically “everything is true unless it’s false”

[remote wadi]

By the way, out of curiosity

What's the third most common dice used? I presume d20 and d6 are first and second

[umbral girder]

Most are very much under 100

[blissful ibex]

~100 = roughly 100
so like 80~120

[shy thistle]

My GOATS, Dragonborn, live to be like 80 max

[umbral girder]

Yeah very much below 100

Shoutout to Aarakocra with 30 years

[gray garden]

My goats goblins live to 60ish max

[hollow stone]

probably like a D8, since that's the damage of a lot of weapons and die of like 7 classes

[shy thistle]

Are we talking DnD or in general

Cuz yeah d6 takes first place if it’s in general

[gray garden]

FIRE BALL

[umbral girder]

Lightning bolt

[shy thistle]

Then probably d20, d8, d4

[hollow stone]

we got Rogues, Warlocks, Clerics, Druids, i think Artificers, and Monks

[umbral girder]

D4? Not d10?

[shy thistle]

Cuz potions, small weapons, bonuses

[remote wadi]

For Dnd. I'm probably going to go with d20, d6, then d8

[gray garden]

Monks should have a d10 imo

[umbral girder]

D10 has a good amount of weapons, hit dice, and is used for d100 tables

[shy thistle]

Please god I beg

[umbral girder]

Which on the DM side is very common too

[shy thistle]

As a monk suck-up, I need a d10

[hollow stone]

eh, most of them are about not being hit at all

[shy thistle]

And the minute they do they fold

[gray garden]

Yeah but MSD makes that not that fun to play especially if your using point buy

Most classes need 1 if not 2 stats most!

[umbral girder]

Monk already has a massive amount of defensive features

D10 is very unneeded on them

[remote wadi]

D20 for attacks, checks, and saves
D6 for damage types (fireball, viscous mockery, guiding bolt, Hunter's Mark, and sneak attack are all d6)

And I want to say d8s for some less common attacks and healing

[blissful ibex]

unarmored defence, proficiency in all saves, and evasion are both really solid

[gray garden]

That’s at very high levels through

Bringing it back a little stunning strike is.. meh

[umbral girder]

Deflect attacks, slow fall

[hollow stone]

Monks do have a stat, it's Dex, and Wis is their Unarmored Defense, so they have good util and good not-getting-their-skull-smashed-in

[shy thistle]

I think d4 has to be in there somewhere. Prior to like, level 11, most classes have SOME d4 feature or damage/bonuses

[umbral girder]

The only high level one is the Proficiency to all saves

[gray garden]

What about con?

[umbral girder]

Evasion is only level 7

[hollow stone]

CON is Barbarian Unarmored

[gray garden]

Just cause you have unarmed defense doesn’t make you invincible

[umbral girder]

Also they got a bonus action dodge action

Deflect attacks negates a lot of damage too

[remote wadi]

I'd say they're 4th on the list. Not common enough to beat a d8, but juuuust enough to beat d10s

[hollow stone]

yea, they're more about mobility than being meat shields. they get good speed and good damage, they don't get to flesh wall

[gray garden]

Please deflect attacks will tend to fall off later since more and more saving throws and stuff that does pure non physical damage

[umbral girder]

If we did go high level we also have monks who resist nearly ALL damage

[blissful ibex]

they're skirmishers

[gray garden]

I’m being realistic and sticking with 5-6

[umbral girder]

Low level games is your best?

[gray garden]

Never been past 15

[remote wadi]

For me, I'm realizing just how powerful some builds can be at tier 2/low part of tier 3

[blissful ibex]

never been past 7

[umbral girder]

Amusing because I’m in four every week already

Last Tuesday a party reached 17

[blissful ibex]

in fact, I'm not evenm sure we got a game in on seven

[remote wadi]

Example is the Rogue Ranger Nova build

[gray garden]

I also prefer 2014 but let’s not talk about that monk

[dapper cloud]

Furthest I’ve gotten is 11, and I was running that game.

[hollow stone]

Gloomstalker Assassin my beloved <3

[gray garden]

I miss 2014 conjure animals

[umbral girder]

Mainly because I don’t play the super slow “Milestone leveling” so that’s likely why I reach level ups fast.

[hollow stone]

i love dumping all of my resources into one attack to deal like 2 billion damage

[gray garden]

Playing a summoner in 5e is so hard

And Tasha’s doesn’t help because you need GP components

[umbral girder]

Super cheap components notably

[gray garden]

200gp is not cheap..

[blissful ibex]

especially because they broke like half of Circle of the Shepherd

[umbral girder]

That’s less than half what a level 1 party makes in a session RAW

[gray garden]

alright tell me how you would go about getting (a feather, tuft of fur, and fish tail inside a gilded acorn worth at least 200 gp)

[knotty basin]

Very few DMs use the RAW gold prices

[gray garden]

THIS TOO

[hollow stone]

the games i've been playing earn no capital, what? i had 174 gold for like 8 sessions (then i dumped all of it for a 200GP Bag of Holding and insertion to the objective site)

[umbral girder]

Just find someone to gilded, not that hard. DMG shows any town/city sized place can make things like that

[gray garden]

And it only gets more and more expensive from there

[umbral girder]

Maybe if you were in villages and hamlets it’s hard

[hollow stone]

oh yea the RAW prices are insane, i get it's lore accurate but 1500 GP for 15 AC Armor???????

[umbral girder]

Sounds like a DM issue

[vast pelican]

That's where a lot of level 1 adventures start

[gray garden]

If your a hermit and In the middle of no where finding a “village” that can somehow gild stuff isn’t

[umbral girder]

My players are already in the millions of gold right now

[knotty basin]

Not everyone plays with that much gold though

[gray garden]

Almost no body plays with that much gold

[knotty basin]

90% of DMs don’t use the RAW prices

[umbral girder]

Sounds like you just don’t play with the DMG

[knotty basin]

You’re an exception

[hollow stone]

yea most people don't wind up having so much gold

[gray garden]

Getting 100 gold is hard enough

[crimson gulch]

Real gold aquisition is super important to a great campaign imo

[knotty basin]

Yes, because most people don’t blindly copy words off a page for their games

Where are the PCs getting 400 gold a session, anyways?

That’s more than the GDP of a small village

[crimson gulch]

from dungeons

[hollow stone]

me fr i've been contemplating replacing gold with levels in which you just get more ability to acquire cool things the more you play but you don't actually lose anything in exchange, mechanically

[crimson gulch]

level one starter dungeons all over the place have hundreds of gold worth of treasure in them

[gray garden]

Where are they finding so along dungeons

[knotty basin]

Maybe yours do

[crimson gulch]

yeah, and the ones in campaign books

[gray garden]

That’s not even remotely true if your in a place like water deep or baldurs gate

[umbral girder]

Literally the DMG and adventure modules

[knotty basin]

We’re playing CoS and we have barely any gold

[crimson gulch]

i played in zero treasure games and it SUCKED, so i follow the treasure tables in the book and make the game awesome

[gray garden]

me when the module takes place in a city:

[knotty basin]

I had to spend all of mine to get a whip

[umbral girder]

Someone has not read the Baldur’s Gate or Waterdeep stuff

[vast pelican]

I don't think any of the official modules follow that table.

[gray garden]

im legit running DIA

[crimson gulch]

the richest cities in the Sword coast? yeah no gold there.......

[umbral girder]

Those places are filled to the brim with dungeon.

Waterdeep even has a mega dungeon under it

[remote wadi]

You know what would be a cool idea for a weapon? A ranged weapon (probably sling) that requires money to shoot

[gray garden]

jims magic missle the weapon

[knotty basin]

Yeah, CoS doesn’t, Heros of the Borderlands doesn’t, Icespire Peak doesn’t

[vast pelican]

Personally I don't like microtransactions in my action economy 💀

[umbral girder]

Yeah and that’s a module, not a Baldur’s Gate book

[knotty basin]

Honestly I don’t know any that do

[half oyster]

Hii

[umbral girder]

That has a single pre made adventure to run, not the city

[remote wadi]

If you played Dead Cells, you'll know what I mean

[crimson gulch]

not exactly, but pretty close

[remote wadi]

No, I mean like SP and GP

[umbral girder]

Plays with barely and gold and only gets to level 6. Yeesh

[frail epoch]

Hey 👋

[gray garden]

that still doesnt change the fact that rangers got a worse cap stone ability at level 20

[knotty basin]

Which ones

[umbral girder]

You are missing a lot of the game

[crimson gulch]

couldent spoil things, but i have ran them all and theres plenty of treasure

[umbral girder]

No one said anything in Rangers last I checked.

[gray garden]

i know i just wanted to make fun of ranger again

[umbral girder]

They actually do!

[knotty basin]

No, they don’t

[plucky needle]

Hi guys I'm new to dnd can someone tell me what should I know?

[umbral girder]

As the DMG says they make sure to spread it out over the dungeon not in a big pile

[knotty basin]

They all use their own numbers

[hollow stone]

tbh at a certain tier you gotta go "ykw? d20 Hunter's Mark"

[blissful ibex]

start with #learn-to-play message if you haven't allready
the 'Playing the Game' portion of the free rules are very helpful

[remote wadi]

Chunky Crits with Ranger Rogue Nova is pretty nuts

[inner silo]

Is there a hunteresqua subclass for the barbarian?

[stuck shuttle]

Hey Ahmed, did you see the message I sent you and a few others in #dnd-newcomers ?

[knotty basin]

The DMG is irrelavant. Those adventures use their own amount of earnings and prices

[gray garden]

i feel like the main reason most people just dont like ranger is because its heavily and i mean heavily dm depend
ent

[blissful ibex]

also module/setting dependant

[gray garden]

or you have to know what kinda place your going into before hand

[remote wadi]

For me, it's a great secondary class to live out my sniper dreams

[hollow stone]

one room dungeon
all of the monsters and all of the gold directly in front of the door

[umbral girder]

It is a very fun thing I like to do is see how much modules follow the DMG’s loot and encounter tables.

[vague dew]

Ranger may not be everyone’s most liked but it’s my favourite class to play

[umbral girder]

95% of the time it almost always does for loot, 70% for encounters

Mostly tyranny of dragons is the one that breaks it the most for very obvious reasons

[gray garden]

why use a table when you can hand craft encounters

[umbral girder]

“Why use a tool box when you can screw a nut onto the vehicle yourself?”

[blissful ibex]

I play druid with a moderate multiclass that makes it play more akin to ranger XD

[vague dew]

Do you guys use any homebrew rules to help non-magic casters to catch up to magic users?

[knotty basin]

Because it’s more fun??

[umbral girder]

It’s called longer adventuring days to drain casters and give Martials Magic items

[blissful ibex]

no, because they're meant to do completely different things

[hollow stone]

more like "why choose something off the menu when you can order the coffee yourself?", it's about tailoring to the specific situation

[gray garden]

the fact athat maritals need magic weapons top "catch up" with casters is still laughable to me

[umbral girder]

There is no encounter menu you know that right?

This isn’t 4e

[crimson gulch]

they dont actually, thats based on the adventuring day

[knotty basin]

Nealan I’m starting to think you don’t actually like stories, but instead like numbers going up

[hollow stone]

that is literally the encounter table. the table is the menu.

[umbral girder]

You still have to make the encounters

[vague dew]

It’s something I feel like can be fixed with just more slots for magic items to attune to

[knotty basin]

Maybe you would enjoy cookie clicker more

[gray garden]

there was this one time we were all level six it was me Druid a level 6 monk fighting a shadow demon guess who did more damage in that fight

[vague dew]

U

[crimson gulch]

hopefully the demon

[gray garden]

it was me cause i was shepard

[umbral girder]

It is very telling why you only reach level 6 so often

[vague dew]

Minmaxing?

[gray garden]

conjure animals

[vague dew]

Oh alright

It must have taken ages so run a single encounter

[gray garden]

the monk did alright dont get me wrong but the monster was reisistant to every damaeg type he could throw at it

[vague dew]

A regular demon?

[gray garden]

shadow demon

[hollow stone]

oh yea, i get that, i have a Rogue who can only deal Piercing (except Unarmed Strike but that's a 2)

[vague dew]

Ok

[gray garden]

he was a dragon monk

[hollow stone]

i did just recently get a Ring of Shooting Stars tho, so that's some diversity

[crimson gulch]

a 2014 level 6 monk should have been doing full damage to a shadow demon

[gray garden]

and i think its a little stupid that a lot of classes at level 6ish there ability is "hey you can now deal full damage to this monster"

[crimson gulch]

Kii empowerd strikes

[gray garden]

he was dragon monk and thing was in the air

[halcyon forum]

okay but dragon monks can bypass pretty much every resistance and they can do short amounts of flight

[gray garden]

the thing is resistant to every elemetal damage type

[hollow stone]

tbf '14 had Nonmagical Resistance, which was really bad for Martials who didn't have magic weapons

[gray garden]

true

[hollow stone]

i'm glad they got rid of that, i mean Werewolves being lore accurate was cool but like, why doesn't my pointy stabbing stick get to work anymore >.<

[gray garden]

this was mainly on the dm for not checking stat block but me a barb a fighter and paladin had to fight a flesh golem with NO magic items

[crimson gulch]

Grapple and Torches is the way to do that

[hollow stone]

you could explain it that yes Werewolves can only be pierced by silver, but that caused a counter reaction where people would just add small amounts of silver to the molten metal and now any nonsilver weapons are in museums as artifacts and relics of the past, which are usually surrounded by such a cultured mysticism that they become magical

[gray garden]

you can get any weapon slivered for 100gp

[hollow stone]

100GP is a lot tho :(

[gray garden]

yeah but to deal damage to a werewolf its kinda worth

also werewolves arent immune to fall damage

[hollow stone]

idk maybe that DM just doesn't like gold but we literally didn't have the capital to get our gear silvered

[gray garden]

push them off a cliff then

[hollow stone]

still jumped the werewolf tho because we had like 4 casters

[hollow stone]

no cliffs in the area, it was a forest

[gray garden]

CLOUD OF DAGGERS

[exotic tangle]

IMO, since werewolves are one of the only with an ability like that, I think much more interesting encounters can be made where the DM lets the martials do other things to the werewolves rather than just 'pay a gold tax to hit the monster'. Let them push werewolves off cliffs or race to man that ballista with silver arrows as the werewolves rampage through the town.

[hollow stone]

nah we jumped him anyway, incapacitated him, and let his wife cure his lycanthropy

[hollow stone]

i just think we shouldn't have ever had a system that could discriminate against an entire category of classes that was already considered weaker than its counterpart

[exotic tangle]

Very true. It is a problem, but good DMs know how to take problems and make them interesting and fun. As someone who mostly plays martials, if I got the chance to man a siege weapon or mess with a werewolf via shoving and such, I would love it as long as it wasn't an abymsally (I can't spell apparently...) weak tactic

[gray garden]

i mainly play spell casters im just throwing a hissy fit over why i cant just use big guy to beat people to death for me while i just sit there

[hollow stone]

oh yea being able to operate siege equipment is really cool i can't argue with that lol

[hollow stone]

so is like, destructible environments, that's also really fun, like being able to knock out the floorboards and drop the enemy onto a different level, or being able to bypass a locked door by launching it off its hinges, or making a new door because the castle wall didn't have an unguarded one

[jovial shadow]

An example is...?

[gray garden]

any of the summon spells

[hollow stone]

i think that's an Artificer, either Steel Defender or Artillerist

[gray garden]

i dont wanna build some dumb hunk of metal

i wanna summon a thing froam a plane other then my own and make it rend my enemies aparat

[hollow stone]

oh you want the thing that gets hurt for you to feel pain?

[gray garden]

yeah but thats why im a druid so i can heal a them later

[hot reef]

There are plenty of monsters that are more or less resistant to spellcasting vs martial attacks

[hollow stone]

i mean there does exist a means to reflavor artificer as an inventor of life, rather than steel

[prisma mason]

artificers dont gotta be only metal stuff artificers are magical craftsmen in general

[hot reef]

Artificer isn’t necessarily steel by default either
More so a magic tinkerer

[gray garden]

yeah but it doesnt have the flexibility of it being able to fly in the air(summon beast) or give it self advantage (summon fae)

[vast pelican]

I reckon you could flavor an artificer around any given tool set.

[hollow stone]

that's fair, yea

[gray garden]

or hells even the bad ass thing that is a summon lesser/greater demonm

[prisma mason]

a leather worker artificed that puts magical marks onto their leather pieces

and shoes etc

[gray garden]

a

[prisma mason]

a miniature painter that makes and paints summon figurines

[hollow stone]

i've always quite liked an artificer who can make cells grow to force inanimate objects into function, making the inanimate into "bones" for a cement-like parasite to digest, inevitably ending in the destruction of the artifact once its permissed duration expires

[gray garden]

i still prefer watching a little demon rip people limp from limp or using summon beast to take advantage of pack tactics

or the eco eating machine know as conjure animals

[hollow stone]

(cement-like being that it is amorphous for a time, but solidifies and adheres to the surface it's deployed to)

[gray garden]

The conjuration school of arcane magic calls materials, creatures or energy to the caster and can also be reversed to send creatures to other places, either over long distances or even to a whole different plane of existence. still not as cool as confuration

theres even a summon shadow demon

and theres only TWO casters that can do conjuration well

[jovial shadow]

Nothing wrong with that but you can't summon a fiend

[gray garden]

summon demon is spell..

what do you mean

[jovial shadow]

Aren't you a Druid? Druids can't summon Fiends

[gray garden]

i meant how little content there is for summoning stuff

in a 3rd party book theres a summon PLANT

[empty thicket]

summoning some peanuts and throw them at the BBEG allergic to them

I dont want peace, i want violence

[gray garden]

like making a good summon build is only good druids or wizards

[empty thicket]

isnt like warlock have lots of summons too?

[gray garden]

ehh warlock doesnt have anything to help out there summons tho

[empty thicket]

let me check what he can summon and do, one sec

wait, 2014 or 2024?

[gray garden]

2024 pretty much guts fun summoning spells

hell conjure fey allows you to use a owlbear as a mount

if you have a 7th level spell slot you can summon a primval owlbear

[empty thicket]

no wait, i mistook it for invocations, idk if both are the same but im reading they arent.

[gray garden]

they aint

when i meant summoing spell i mean like putting another creature in the game

[empty thicket]

yeah yeah, i had one of those misinterpretations.
still you have some summon things fiends, aberrations or you can create undead or charm a monster

fey, etc.

[gray garden]

charm monster doesnt force them unless stated other wise

youd need like bulgile monster

Dominate Monster

[jovial shadow]

She is a Druid and can't use most of those spells

[gray garden]

druids have the earlest of summoning spells like summon beast summon fey conjure animals conjure woodland beings summon elemental etc etc

[turbid vessel]

Summon a fire elemental and call it a fiend, idk

[gray garden]

im not saying that theres only TWO subclasses FOR summoning

which is shepard and conjure

[hollow stone]

yea wasn't it because of like, initiative clogging?

[lavish flame]

yeah, old summons were a nightmare

[minor cargo]

I once tried to replicate the “feel” of a summoner (conjurer and necromancer) by placing auras or swarms in the field.

It was an interesting experiment but something was still off.

[gray garden]

summoners just dont have a place in 5e i guess

[hollow stone]

yea, i'm a bigger fan of "microsummons" as i dub them, thing like Ball Of Lightning or Flaming Sphere that attack automatically and are moved as a Bonus Action, but in theory making it a free action is maybe fine?

[empty thicket]

The action economy get just F%$Ç with summons, that is the problem

[turbid vessel]

Something about the bones of the system, hard for me to articulate but it doesn't quite gel well when it comes to dedicated summon builds

Cyberpunk Red has Combat Numbers which makes calling in backup very elegant, pathfinders 3 action system happened to gel very well with the summoner class, but something doesn't click with 5e

[empty thicket]

its like the principal problem of it, you cant have like 5 bonus actions for the summons. Give them a turn is problematic, etc. etc.

[turbid vessel]

Mutants and Masterminds has a pretty good system with Group Checks, where the number of summons can add a bonus to a certain check, maybe the number of summons is a + to the singular attack roll

But that's getting into homebrew at that point

[hollow stone]

yea just make them move around as its conjurer's BA and attack automatically

[stoic haven]

Hey, this is a question about Third Party vs Homebrew. How do you tell the difference? Because published homebrew is also payed for content as is Third Party, and I dont know how to differentiate between them for asking either in homebrew or Third party about certain builds

Ex: Anthology of Heroes by Taron Pounds, Kibbles' Casting Compendium

[minor cargo]

Yeah this was my thinking of trying to make summons a “swarm” - which means you don’t need to roll any attacks or anything. They just engulf an enemy and deal damage and/or status effects.

[hollow stone]

oh yea like reflavoring Entangle into a considerably large number of ants

[vast pelican]

Third party content is just homebrew from a specific publisher. Homebrew encompasses all rules and material that is not from an official publication.

[lavish flame]

I've felt for a little while now that the Swarm statblocks (like Swarm of Piranhas) should be expanded more. There should be swarms of Zombies and swarms of Soldiers snd things. If there were, I think you could make summoning cool by using them.

[coarse ravine]

Also one of or the only summoner that gives its summons magical damage

Shepherd (I dont summon besides draconic spirit) but shepherd gives magical damage

[hollow stone]

it sounds really funny to play a ranger that's flavored to be and calls themselves "The Bug Lord", actually, i might do that

[coarse ravine]

Conjuring elementals will allow the elemental to attack you if you break concentration

[turbid vessel]

But something still felt off, you said? Any chance you can articulate what that was?

[minor cargo]

Let me know if you ever wanna collaborate on something like this.

Here’s my Summoner from like… 2019 lol.

[hollow stone]

Pass Without A Trace is just getting carried by ants, whos tiny feet don't leave footprints

[turbid vessel]

So you too made a homebrew summoner class? I didn't realize you were chill like that 🤝

[jovial shadow]

Not in 2024

[hollow stone]

what's that species that's like, bugs? Thri-Kreen?

[minor cargo]

I think I need more data about what “summoner” means.

Like do you want a buncha lil’ guys? Do you like feeling like it’s individual units? Do you want a small “platoon”? Do you want one REALLY big companion? That kind of stuff. The scope can be pretty big.

[empty thicket]

Or you want to do like Issac from Castlevania?

[lethal grail]

would anyone be able to tell me their favorite things about chthonic teiflings specifically?

[minor cargo]

I think another way to think of a D&D summoner is by focusing on the “fantasy”. For example, I bet a lot of people just want to feel like they’ve “overwhelmed” the battlefield, which you can do without several units (maybe).

[empty thicket]

(maybe not that op like issac, bro had an entire army of demons under his command but the point is there)

[raw ocean]

Anyone here play pbp before?

[coarse ravine]

Yes

[humble cairn]

I have. I love the idea, can't do the pacing personally.

[minor cargo]

Mmm hmm!
It’s not my preferred but I get it.

[raw ocean]

How often is "active" for posts, like 3-5 posts a day?

[coarse ravine]

In terms of tier.

In person>video chat>vc>pbp

[humble cairn]

I love to write and I thought PBP would be my thing, but something about the pacing and waiting and waiting and waiting messes with my brain.

[coarse ravine]

Thats not real pbp. That's relaxed pbp.

[minor cargo]

Obviously that’s subjective - but active for me would mean a post like every hour or two during waking hours.

[raw ocean]

So like once an hour would be 8 posts a day?

[coarse ravine]

Pbp quests usually take longer then vc. But pbp quests organized should still only last 5-6 hours. Instead of the vc lasting 3-5

Thats organized though. I cant get around the 3-5 texts a day theme. It ridiculously breaks immersion

[coarse ravine]

Breaks immersion doing that

[raw ocean]

Oh I thought a post would be like an entire conversation

[humble cairn]

Huh .. I thought the whole selling point of PBP was it being asynchronous. 5-6 hours seems like you'd basically all need to be online at about the same time.

[raw ocean]

DM > Player > DM > Player > DM > Player, that's what I thought a post was

[coarse ravine]

You say something then 8 hours later someone sais somethin. Then you say somethin then 4 hours later someone sais something.

Its not immersion

[blissful ibex]

imagine you're sending letters back and forth; cuz that's what it's rooted in

[marble lion]

that would only work if one person could type all the things of all the participants

[coarse ravine]

Yes a conversation is made with 2+ people

Unless you are crazy of course talking to yourself.

[marble lion]

you try to say as much as you can in one post, unlike vc, but its still just you

[raw ocean]

Currently im trying to get a game with 1 DM and 2 players [including me]

[humble cairn]

I think the one I played asked for everyone to make one post a day.

[raw ocean]

Im kind of bugging since 11 people DM'd me offering to DM for us

[coarse ravine]

A good party is 4+ you can make it work with 3. But 2 is low good luck

[marble lion]

3 is great too

[raw ocean]

2 is good luck?

[marble lion]

4 is perfection to me

[blissful ibex]

3~6 on paper, 4~5 in practice

[marble lion]

3 is only bad if the players struggle to be active, which is an entirely different problem imo

[blissful ibex]

the architypal party is 4

[empty thicket]

3 to 5 is okey, 6 to 9 is too much +9 is overkill

[marble lion]

2 is fun if the players have good chemistry but definitely not something id look for

[raw ocean]

Im quite active daily because of a lenient schedule, tbh im doing pbp with a new player to like help them learn at their own pace?

[hollow stone]

yea a party of 4 is ideal, Halo Splitscreen type ball

[rough basalt]

I like 5

[coarse ravine]

Pick the dm that is asking yall questions about what game you would like to run. Asking if you want horror, or faewild fantasy, etc etc. Not all dms are great alot are good. Alot are bad. The great ones will listen to their players wants and needs. Designing them a game that is interesting to the players. This is a rarity but out of the 11 dms you may have a great one in that group

[rough basalt]

With 5 in the common event someone drops between session -1 to session 3 you still got 4

[empty thicket]

like, the only way you make a +9 is literally being 2 dms doing a war between them, 2 parties fighting each other

[raw ocean]

Currently im speaking to one DM, and the rest I sent a "Busy speaking, I will get to you soon!" with like some basic info they may need to know

[rough basalt]

And if they stay you have the ability to play pretty normally if one doesn't show up

[marble lion]

that is the only upside i see to 5

[coarse ravine]

Takes a very social dm that is very well organized

Been in a party of 27 before.... but thats westmarch type stuff

[empty thicket]

yep and its too much, how you manage to balance encounters with that? they just have access to too much resources and stuff

[rough basalt]

Also depends on the players too

[coarse ravine]

Ive taken a party of 6 before and after they did their summons there was 45 things on tbe allys side

[rough basalt]

It's a bit easier to handle big groups if there's a lot of passive players who are willing to go along with what's going on.

[coarse ravine]

True story..... summoning is broken.

[empty thicket]

What they were fighting, a whole army?

[coarse ravine]

10 wooly mammoths that were wildshaped with one being a arch druid.

[empty thicket]

and one thing to remark, having 2 to 3 casters like sorc and wiz. Make big encounters a problem

[hollow stone]

atp just play Warhammer 😭

[raw ocean]

Oh my god what have I done, literally all of them have perfect responses

[coarse ravine]

I mean.... it was just 6 of them after they did their actions it was 45 of them

[empty thicket]

and the ammount of time you have to wait for your turn, saying they go fast at least 10 seconds each one + enemies.
You can literally make a coffee or go to the bathroom between turns and dont worry

[hollow stone]

are your players russian nesting dolls??? that's so many lmfao

[coarse ravine]

Yeaj I felt really bad for the fighter

[rough basalt]

That's part of why I'm glad they removed mass summoning in the revisions

[empty thicket]

but in other way, if there is bards, arts, etc. they can buff you and you can fight more. The problem is that its too much

Too much enemies for the casters? The martials cant make it good
Few enemies that have counterspells and stuff for the casters? martials shine too much and casters feel bad

[coarse ravine]

Tiny servants using magic stone....
Conjured animals
Conjured fairies...
Fairies also conjuring their own thing.... it was alot

[jagged vigil]

My players: "I mean, we won't be fighting the Efreeti right after fighting the Naga. Why would the Efreeti put the planar gate right into his throne room? That'd be ridiculous."

Me, who put the Efreeti's throne room on the other side of the Gate: 👀

[empty thicket]

3 to 5 is perfect for me

[coarse ravine]

Frontline, dps caster, another caster that can heal

[marble lion]

possibly time to place some hints that show that assumption may be wrong

[raw ocean]

This sounds more and more like modern drone warfare

[hollow stone]

"You see a sign just above the portal, it reads "Efreeti Throne Room"."

[marble lion]

like the other end of the portal being real fancy like its made to receive a king

[coarse ravine]

Its player action tho... as the dm i can literally do whatever i want. Players are limited to what their mechanics on that sheet tell them.

[raw ocean]

Every NPC must of been hearing flight of the bumblebees with that amount of allies lol

[coarse ravine]

I will say I never ran for that sorcerer tiny servants stuff ever again

[jagged vigil]

Very excited about this. They've fought this Naga once before, lost and fled, and now are coming back under better circumstances to wipe it off the face of Toril with indiscriminate fury. To face the Efreeti right after? Uh oh. How exciting!

[empty thicket]

Frontline (Bersk or paladin)
Martial dps (Fighter or monk)
Extra damage (Rogue or ranger)
Offensive caster (wiz, warlock or sorc)
Support caster (Arti, druid, bard, cleric)

[jagged vigil]

I just gotta do the Bloodbourne wall of mist that makes it clear it's boss battle territory

[coarse ravine]

Replace artificer with cleric sheeesh lol

Artificers are very unique... but support is definitely bard, cleric, druids are more battlefield control but definitely can support.

[empty thicket]

you can cut it into a Fighter, Wiz and bard if you want a 3 party. I find that ones like almost in the perfect sweetspot

[hoary totem]

Pokemon Legends ZA characters as dnd characters just for fun:
canari - bard
corbeau - mastermind rogue
ivor - monk
gwynn - warlock
lebanne - barbarian/draconic sorcerer/archfey warlock
jacinthe - archfey warlock? (she is the fey lol)
lida - bard
naveen - artificer

[marble lion]

i think parties without frontliner are fun

[coarse ravine]

Yeah jack of all trades can let the bard carry in wisdom possibly if party doesn't have a wis character

[hoary totem]

frontliner? melee? tank? nah we got fireball

[coarse ravine]

Yes especially with the casters having 2-3 of em with teleport options

[empty thicket]

the thing is, artificers dont have anything that make me call it "offensive"
Can be a frontline in some subclasses, can be a healer//buffer, etc. But i dont find any that make him be totally offensive like others

[coarse ravine]

Literally know fireball

[hoary totem]

make a nuke /j

make an ak-47

[coarse ravine]

Exactly a artificer is only as good as their imagination

[marble lion]

it feels like fast adrenaline video game combat like a coop shooter against a boss wave

[hoary totem]

if you can imagine a nuke, you can make artificer good. i rest my case

[coarse ravine]

Yeah I play wildfire alot so I can teleport the party. Ya dont need a frontliner when ya got some speed.

[empty thicket]

you have the strength and martial versatility of fighter
Int and versatilty of wizard, having a giga long list spells and utility.
Bard being able to buff allies so their rolls are better because each roll matter x10 and being able to cast between heals, buffs and damage.

[marble lion]

the DM having only maps that are 30ft across.... "guys, im so sorry"

[coarse ravine]

I mean of course it requires a dm to work with you.

But theres so much gray area with the artificer that you can essentially create whatever

[marble lion]

making big maps is such a hastle though. i really need to force myself everytime. i love designing small basic maps so much. its satisfying

[hoary totem]

you are either underpowered or have a nuke, im sure the dm won't be a sadist

[hollow stone]

nah, make em assault a mortar position on a 500x1200 foot map

[coarse ravine]

Thats why I usually take observant. My character is always asking details of the surroundings.

[marble lion]

i dont mean that as a gotcha just like "im sorry my game doesnt support your playstyle"

its like a vegetarian showing up to my bbq

[coarse ravine]

I mean I've made potato guns before... not too powerful but it could launch potato guns lol. With dm help I made a ai homunculus dragon lol.

[marble lion]

ill be sad i dont have anything for them

probably some tomato mozzarella

[hoary totem]

Out of pure nerdiness. Cesium is a slightly gold-tinted alkali metal that has a very low melting point and explodes in contact with air or water. It actually exists btw it's not a dnd thing. If you're an alchemist...

[coarse ravine]

The artificer in a campaign im in. Was asking my druid to help him find a skunk. Because he had a concoction to make a bomb. (Unkown to my character)

[empty thicket]

that is the another problem i have with it and why i put it in support, It can create objects that help the rest of the team. Its in most of it, utility.
Yeah, you can go offensive like cleric can go offensive but the principal idea is one

[hoary totem]

This is why we play artificer. It's wizard but with science. if wizards cast fireball every time, artificers make bombs every time lol

Hear me out

Fireball gun

[coarse ravine]

I think the funniest thing is when the dm prolly plans for all npcs personalities and morales. Then the druid trys to talk to the animals. So now you are trying to rp as a skunk because of speak with animals lol

[prisma mason]

When you roll a Nat 1 it explodes :x including all the ammunition

Expensive but funny

[coarse ravine]

I mean guns do have some sort of balance i think for rolling nat 1s

Doesn't their gun break?

[prisma mason]

I feel like if it was a fireball gun it'd break by exploding for sure

[empty thicket]

welp, there is rings and stones capable of storage spells, so make a gauntlet with those and have it charged would be an way

[coarse ravine]

I mean there is the artilierist cannon. Magic item

[prisma mason]

This is my favorite invention which is the "catapult gun" essentially a anything launcher

[hoary totem]

Chronurgy wizards. Load a gun with fireball beads. The gun makes the spell stored as a bead activate when shooting.

[prisma mason]

Get a jar of bees put it in the catapult gun and now you got a bee cannon

Or a jar of grease! Or acid!

[hoary totem]

Bees die after stinging and unless they're killer beed or smth they won't always attack. Wasps are better

[prisma mason]

Wasp cannon yes

[hoary totem]

Hol up, the artificer class is just the architect crest from silksong

PUT COGFLIES IN DND plsplspls

[coarse ravine]

Still the jar only does 3d8 damage but dm can describe the stuff in the jar after it breaks I guess

[prisma mason]

Well obviously the wasps would be aggroed on the target after the 3d8

[hoary totem]

Load the gun with cogflies. Poison cogflies

[prisma mason]

Or maybe you can make a option that the wasps choose a nearby target at random lol

So it could potentially target nearby PCs lmao

[hoary totem]

This is why we love chronurgists. Force reroll

Besides the spell bead gun

[humble cairn]

My Forest Gnome Ranger talks to every Beast we encounter.

[hoary totem]

maybe there should be like. another character the same party that casts like see into another plane or smth. and they see into the hollowknightverse

artificer sees all the silksong tools and proceeds to build a cogfly army

[tribal light]

Is there any relationship between the rivalry of giants and dragons in D&D and the rivalry of king kong and godzilla? 🤔

[fossil hollow]

the og KK vs GZ was 1962

[tribal light]

much like nietzsche divided the world into a dionysian and apollonian dichotomy, i prefer to look at things through a kongian or godzillesque framework

[fossil hollow]

what

[tribal light]

not for nothing but weren't a lot of OG D&D monsters based on kaiju from 60s and 70s japanese shows and movies

[tribal light]

it's a philosophy joke

[timid current]

when this sentence started I was thinking "oh no" but you brought me back around

[fossil hollow]

There is an island off Kara Tur iirc that had Gargantuans. Two of them literally were just Godzilla and Kongs

then the other two i think were giant bug and Cthulhu

[tribal light]

the world is supported on the backs of kaiju all the way down

[fossil hollow]

what?

[hoary totem]

giant bug Mothra