dnd-discussion

[knotty pasture]

Give a campaign to AI and it'd make it a campaign but on training wheels

[crimson gulch]

it cannot and will not be albe to

[rough basalt]

Not really

[crimson gulch]

because it cant be a person unplugged from a computer sitting at a table with you running a game

[knotty pasture]

AI is in fact unable to surpass a human DM at this point in time:

[buoyant oar]

AI can barely keep a thought running for longer than 10 to 15 messages.

[fiery nimbus]

so, what monster is a legally distinct balrog?

[buoyant oar]

Balor

[nova trellis]

I get bombarded enough with AI slop when I'm forced to speak with a bot on the phone before I get real customer service or the multitude of AI shorts on YouTube trying to scam me. Its not better and stop trying to sell us on slop.

[rough basalt]

2024 Balor is funny cause it's so close to the Balrog artwise

[reef tundra]

Also it doesn’t matter if it’s better, if you choose a false creature made by a corporation to make money over a person you can actually form bonds and friendships with, then… wow

[upper lintel]

I love druids turn into a bear owl count me in

[warped jay]

Like when people play any video game collaboratively?

[nova trellis]

I get enough of that from tech bros trying to gaslight us on how great AI is as a data center next door is eating my electricity bill.

[buoyant oar]

Video games are made by people tho

[reef tundra]

That’s people working together to experience something people made

[knotty pasture]

I will say that we are closer to having AI players and human DMs though, but players are so readily available that there's no point to it either

[warped jay]

Humans care very little about the origin of their products.

[severe basin]

Video games are made by people and played by people. Sure, there's a level of "these are avatars and not physical bodies" but they are real people. Except Counterstrike 2, apparently

[reef tundra]

*you

[knotty pasture]

Amity does this mean that you're Raphael's sibling

[fiery nimbus]

so, my DM said he won't be tracking spell components until we start casting level 6th spells, so my warlock build is basically on a timer to obtain a renewable source of humanoid blood without any Zealot Barbarian nearby

[warped jay]

*most people

[reef tundra]

Yes

[knotty pasture]

Epic

[humble cairn]

So you asked a question and are very much leading your questions in a direction. What is your purpose here?

[crimson gulch]

revivify and raise dead for free?

[raw sonnet]

I created a backup character in case mmy current character dies. DM allowed me to cast my spells with a staff that looks like a gun. So now my backup character is a wizardd who will shoot fireballs and other spells out of a broken blunderbuss

[reef tundra]

Okay now that’s cool af

[rough basalt]

Feels like he's gonna probably tune back that rule a bit lol once he realizes what free revives means

[warped jay]

Honestly just testing the waters.

[raw sonnet]

I stole this idea from a game "wizard with a gun"

[severe basin]

🔥 ✍️

[fiery nimbus]

Aye, not that it would be much of a problem
Im more worried about my Summon Greater Demon requiring humanoid blood

[knotty pasture]

You found the worst place to test waters considering there's an anti AI rule here

[buoyant oar]

I won't deny that it will arrive at some point. Horses and cars.

But fully replace? Nah. Its antithetical to the hobby itself. So there will always be Human Dungeon Masters. Because DMs are the modern day version of the oldest non survival profession humans have.

The Storyteller. And the day we stop telling stories ourselves is the day our species is over.

[amber echo]

guys souknife is a official subclass?

[rough basalt]

Yes

[nova trellis]

I think you care very little of products from the snippets you said.

[raw sonnet]

is it for rogue?

[reef tundra]

Correct

[warped jay]

Depends on what you're testing.

[raw sonnet]

yes, it is, in fact, an official class

[raw sonnet]

I couldn't remember if it was a fighter or a rogue subclass

[rough basalt]

Yes and what you're testing isn't a good idea here

[knotty pasture]

There's an anti AI rule here, I really don't think whatever it is you're testing is going to be as productive as you hoped it'd be

[raw sonnet]

also do you think homebrewing a wizard subclass named "The school of gunpowder" would be funny?

[knotty pasture]

Either people are against it in the first place, or they wouldn't have spoke up as much cuz of the rule there anyways

[reef tundra]

Here we choose humanity over these false beings

[nova trellis]

No, I think you're clearly rage baiting folks with a topic you know would wild people up. That, or you're just awful at reading a room.

[fiery nimbus]

sounds like an evolved version of fireball casters

[humble cairn]

Due to the ethical ramifications of AI technology, consider that you are advocating for the actual devil. And stop, please.

[warped jay]

Just for AI content. Not discussion.

[reef tundra]

I feel like the best thing to do now is move on and switch topics. I will no longer engage

[karmic pendant]

That just sounds like an artillerist artificer

[knotty pasture]

I chose Asmodeus

[buoyant oar]

AI in its current from is theft for profit.

It is debasing, gross, and should be unwelcomed in a civilized world.

Most people don't care. True. It's a good thing I don't interact with most people.

[fiery nimbus]

I think they are called Elves and they take offense to being called false

[reef tundra]

Hey devils aren’t this evil /lhj

[nova trellis]

I think the only thing Yenii tested here was everyone's patience.

[warped jay]

I'm going to continue having a civil discussion about important topics not moderated by the rules of this discord. Ty though.

[knotty pasture]

Think about it, if there's an anti AI rule here, the populace is either anti AI to begin with, or there'd be major pushback against the rules since it was made, and the latter hasn't happened

[reef tundra]

So, anybody got any feelings about the new cartographer artificer? I like the flavour and idea but I haven’t been able to see it at the table yet

[humble cairn]

Continuing to talk about something that people consider an obnoxious topic and have politely asked you to stop is badgering and no longer civil.

[vast pelican]

It's pretty strong in terms of support and utility.

[crimson gulch]

looks neat, i havent had anyone swap to it though

[rough basalt]

I wanna try it

[raw sonnet]

He just gets a single gun and two turrets. I was thinking to give this subclass an ability to turn spells into bullets to cast them later and a bonus to fire, bludgeoning and piercing damage from spells

[reef tundra]

Same

[knotty pasture]

I'm just about as neutral on AI as I can get and I really don't think whatever you're doing is going to get you what you want

[warped jay]

I agree this server is likely very anti-ai. Hence the question. The latter hasn't happened because topics should be discussed.

[knotty basin]

You might want to take the cartomancer feat

[reef tundra]

I also really wanna try the reanimator subclass when it comes out

[warped jay]

You can stop engaging any time you want.

[knotty pasture]

Or the server is anti AI, hence there's no discussion on something that we all collectively dislike as the norm

[lyric viper]

Actually best to move on

This is not D&D related.

[nova trellis]

Talking about AI in any space that discusses media is going to have pushback because the current AI landscape is built upon theft and exploitation of works to even function. The impetus is the full scale pillagimg of the creative works of the entire internet.

[cosmic roost]

https://media-waterdeep.cursecdn.com/attachments/0/828/c2-16.png

[vast pelican]

Kinda feels wrong that WoTC are giving arty a necromancer subclass before giving the wizard one.

[crimson gulch]

i built a rival party of adventueres that is going to oppose my players tonight

[rough basalt]

A rival party would be fun to use sometime

[knotty pasture]

Wizard has a necromancer subclass though

[rough basalt]

They mean the updated version I assume

[raw sonnet]

why take the boring route when I can sit down at my computer with a cup of tea and spend an hour being creative to create something for a game I enjoy?

[reef tundra]

I love making rival parties

[knotty pasture]

Oh right, something something Mystra give us one, quick

[crimson gulch]

thank you modrons!

[rough basalt]

I'm starting to prep a Strahd game

[timid anvil]

There is a Necromancer in UA though

[rough basalt]

Maybe I'll throw in a party that Strahd turned into spawn

[reef tundra]

I would love to run Strahd one day

Although I’m working on my setting’s equivalent to strahd

[rough basalt]

To be enemies they encounter sometimes.

[knotty pasture]

A full necromancy party in Strahd would be funny

[rough basalt]

Until you don't do any damage to half the module lol

[knotty pasture]

Death Cleric, Oathbreaker, Necromancer, Death Monk, Undead Warlock, Spores Druid

[tribal isle]

Just had to ping to open up DMs again. Mb.

[proven mountain]

There's a reanimator subclass?!

[humble cairn]

Do we know which one is coming first?

[rough basalt]

It's in UA

[reef tundra]

Soon. But it’s cool as hell

I can finally be Victor Frankenstein

[rough basalt]

Nope, they haven't announced the 2026 content yet

[reef tundra]

I’m about to play as Frankenstein’s monster, so it’ll be going full circle

[blissful ibex]

I'm running spores druid/swarmkeeper ranger in 5e.2014 CoS atm

[crimson gulch]

need me some book announcements for sure

[rough basalt]

Someone mentioned they're probably waiting until the Hasbro holiday layoffs, just a speculation tho.

[knotty basin]

Reborn has been a thing for a while

[humble cairn]

Soo ... this seems premature since we don't that's what they're doing.

[rough basalt]

So they can find out what they can handle for next year

[reef tundra]

That’s exactly what my character is

[humble cairn]

... bleak

[knotty pasture]

Speaking of Swarmkeeper I think I'm more than halfway done with the discord community tier list for 2014 subclasses

[uncut zenith]

I do imagine they’re waiting until after the holidays to make any book announcements, but it’s because… it’s the holidays

[knotty pasture]

A very good thing

[rough basalt]

Well they announced the 2025 stuff around when the '24 PHB released didn't they?

[fiery nimbus]

just in case someone forgot that corporations are in fact not friends

[crimson gulch]

they just announced some promotions of some folks to oversee DND i think? so thats a much better vibe than holiday layoffs

[rough basalt]

There might be some deliberation on what to do next year they can't fully decide on too

[uncut zenith]

The D&D branch is also under relatively new management, so I’m sure they’re still trying to get their feet on the ground before they start making any big book announcements

[rough basalt]

I speculate they got the Anthology, and Dark Sun probably down

[uncut zenith]

Based on the UA we’ve gotten since then, I think it’s safe to say they definitely have projects in the works

[crimson gulch]

my DND wish list
300+ page campaign books

[rough basalt]

Unless they decide to break the anthology yearly streak

[crimson gulch]

the last several campaign books were anthologies

[rough basalt]

Ye once a year since 2022(?)

[crimson gulch]

dragon delves, infinite staircase, Vecna

[uncut zenith]

Which would seem a little silly to me, considering the anthologies at least seem to be pretty popular

[rough basalt]

Ye they're good business

[reef tundra]

Vecna was an anthology?!

[uncut zenith]

It wasn’t, Urizt just considers it an anthology

[crimson gulch]

thats a judgement on my side moreso than the authors intent

[reef tundra]

Actually I can see that, the chapters do feel quite disconnected

[rough basalt]

No, it's a campaign, it kinda runs like an anthology

[fiery nimbus]

and i thought he was a lich

[rough basalt]

He's the Arch-Anthology

[reef tundra]

I still consider it one campaign but I can see why it feels that way

[dark pewter]

VEoR is a weird case of anthology-vibes with a very concrete throughline

[blissful ibex]

Incredibly hyped for Circle of Preservation Druid

[crimson gulch]

Agreed, still a good book

[uncut zenith]

There’s an imo minimal overarching plot that connects all the chapters in Vecna, so I can see why it otherwise feels like an anthology

[rough basalt]

I'm speculating(hoping) Fey or some other outsider Anthology

[nova trellis]

Not to spoil too much on strahd but a lot of the encounters in that are very well thought out mechanics and design wise but leave a lot open ended story wise. Had some DM do Strahd without much changes and some characters can feel very dry due to that.

[uncut zenith]

Similar to how all the other anthologies can conceivably be run as a full campaign. There just isn’t a complex overarching plot that ties them all together.

[dark pewter]

Oh, fully agreed, I've had a blast running it so far. I gave my party members an early connection to/vendetta against Vecna though, which helps a ton for motivation

[rough basalt]

Or a Giant anthology similar to Dragon Delves

[crimson gulch]

Nice! i ran curse of strahd into it, wrapped up early this year

[uncut zenith]

I’d love a Giant anthology

[blissful ibex]

Mine heavily reflavored it while keeping the horror theme, has been good but we've run into the dreaded shceduling conflits >.>

[rough basalt]

I'd think it'd make sense too

[uncut zenith]

Giants are my favorite creature type, so the more giants I can get the better

[nova trellis]

I feel the gaps in charactization are left so every game can feel pretty unique to a DM. Its a very replayable module.

[rough basalt]

Speculation: 2016 was SKT and CoS
So 2026 will be Storm King's Blunders 1-13 anthology, and Ravenloft. /hj

[dark pewter]

Oh fun! I intended to run Dragon Heist into Vecna with a few small adventures sprinkled between, but ended up combining Icespire Peak and DiA into the between-levels after the party got themselves wanted in Waterdeep

[golden silo]

can elves become arch fey

[crimson gulch]

Nice! i started dragon heist a few months ago after i wrapped up quests from the infinite staircase in my friday time slot, i left it wide open to go to ether Avernus, Storm kings or The dungeon of the mad mage and they went down to undermountian

[knotty pasture]

No, Elves are Elves

[rough basalt]

I wanna run Strahd so I can get practice being dark and cruel as a dm

[dark pewter]

I had fully planned on running Dragon Heist directly into DotMM before the Vecna announcement

[nova trellis]

It happens. What did the DM reflavor to? Strahd is already darkly comedic. With some tweeks, you could turn it into a full blown comedy.

[knotty pasture]

They have fey ancestry but only actual fey can eventually become archfey iirc

[reef tundra]

Elves are only distantly related to fey

Hence fey ancestry

[crimson gulch]

Nice! the only full campaign book for 5e i have not ran yet is Princes of the apocolypse

[vast pelican]

They got their fey card revoked for hanging around too much with the umies.

[dark pewter]

I've tried to get that one going twice, but never had a party last. It's on my bounty list for sure

[rough basalt]

I never get to halfway point of modules.

[uncut zenith]

I’ve actually considered running Curse of Strahd with a Mel Brooks “Young Frankenstein” tone to it

[knotty pasture]

Oneshots are more comforting for me at this point, I plan to do Fall of Elturel

There's absolutely no way anything can go wrong there

[crimson gulch]

Its on the table but its low pritority. Mondays im running a custom Exandria game and learn to play keep on the borderlands on alternating weeks. Tuesdays i am running a Moonshae islands campaign, Wednesday i am doing a Custom Exandria game in the shattered teeth, Thursday is a Custom Calimport Campaign, Friday is Dungeon of the mad mage, Saturday is an Exandria game where i am continuing on from the end of Call of the nether Deep, and sunday is tyrrany of Dragons.

going to run curse of strahd after the Wednesday game Wrapps and we shall see if any new books drop before the others end

[rough basalt]

I got two game ideas rn

Strahd, and a nautical game in my homebrew focused on pursuing a Legend.

But ima put that 2nd idea on the burner

[blissful ibex]

They worked in a bunch of Magnus Archives lore (which I hadn't interacted with before) and like the influences of the fears and stuff. Works rather well the way they did it

[nova trellis]

I like to think it was a long con prank to mess with said umies.

[rough basalt]

Or both on the burner

I'm too indecisive.

[nova trellis]

I'm surprised theres not more long cons by Fey. Like creating a fake religion. Really playing the part, miracles and all that. Fake proxy wars with other "deities"

Easy bargains. And on the last days of a dynasty that formed out of this religion. When theres no more use to be gained. The Fey whispers in the Kings ear. "Lol, see you in eternity."

[vast pelican]

Shamelessly stealing that

[reef tundra]

If a fey ever says “lol” to me imma be mad or die

[marble lion]

is there anyone who rolled the same encounter twice in a row and went with it?

sounds hilarious to me, especially if its not entirely bland and results in this weird dejavu moment

[crimson gulch]

i usualy cross off an encounter after i run it from my tablesx

[marble lion]

i assumed so for most people but anyone?

[nova trellis]

The Kingdom is falling. You're probably going to die pretty soon and the god you believed and fought for just whispers in your ear, "Lol."

That to me, is what Fey antics is about.

[reef tundra]

It is very fey 😭

[nova trellis]

Fey are just dudes with too much time and not a lot of actual threats against them.

Infact, Fey are basically Sims 4 players.

[vast pelican]

That's about as chaotic evil as you can get.

[full warren]

Hello! I'm new to D&D and would love to get into it if anyone is willing to help me out character building and possibly even allow me to join in a campaign.

[nova trellis]

You should create a ranger.

They're very fun.

[karmic pendant]

I'd say go to #learn-to-play first and to find a game go to #find-a-game

[vast pelican]

I also recommend:
#dnd-newcomers for help with the basics and
#character-discussion for character creation stuff

[full warren]

Thank you

[vast pelican]

Welcome to the hobby

[karmic pendant]

Hope you have fun

[full warren]

Ill definitely try haha

[humble cairn]

That sounds like it would take quite the attention span.

[wintry spindle]

I mean they are fey they live long

[nova trellis]

"It would be really funny tho."

[humble cairn]

Doesn't mean they have a long attention span.

[wintry spindle]

Depends on how you portray them

In Frieren Frieren doesnt mind spending years on a small task because to her it's not that long

Same in Rings of Power. The dwarves get angry with the elves because they don't visit them enough to socialize because to the elves doing it once every 10 years is not that long

[crimson gulch]

reminds me of my headcannon of dwarves that "scam" humans by selling them goods that will "Only" last 300 years as opposed to a proper dwarven craft that will last 1000

[wintry spindle]

Lol never hard that one

But I always dig what sets man apart is their shorter lives make them acomplish more stuff since death is so near

[marble lion]

when your great great great great great great great great great grand fathers pocket-watch stops working and you realise its low quality scamware

[wintry spindle]

Like elves have studied for decades and a human just invent in a few years

[marble lion]

damn dwarves and their tricks

[fading musk]

Couldnt get into Frieren show always made me angry..

[marble lion]

huh?

[wintry spindle]

Gotta find the old stone slap reciept to get the watch returned

[marble lion]

angry at the show or you were angry you couldnt get into it?

[wintry spindle]

"Sir we don't even deal in this currency anymore"

[fading musk]

Angry in general I dont like a lot of things.

[marble lion]

always insist on adaptive currency payouts on the receipt

[raw sonnet]

yesterday I learnt that there is a hacker's kit in UA
I think I'll never touch UA again in my entire life

[wintry spindle]

like a hackers kit for pcs?

[marble lion]

its probably from requisition inc or something modern

plenty of UA is fun for classic DnD vibes too, just scroll past the weird stuff

[wintry spindle]

Oh it's the modern magic UA

[raw sonnet]

I don't know what UA is about, but now I am assuming that it's something like cyberpunk setting, and I don't like cyberpunk settings

[tidal bough]

Frieren goes hard

[robust mirage]

frieren is peak

[wintry spindle]

UA means Unearthed Arcana it's playtest material

[marble lion]

i mostly avoid UA lists because i cant stand scrolling through 50 copies of existing released material because they didnt delete the UA variant of it

[fading musk]

I don't trust many things either even if I could just "scroll" past something I would never touch a UA.

[tidal bough]

Its just playtest

[marble lion]

yeah most of it is perfectly normal dnd stuff, just not approved for release yet

[raw sonnet]

so what?

[marble lion]

its not cyberpunk is the so what
some of it is modern, most of it isnt

if you scroll through UA, youll find a lot of existing dnd stuff too because they have beta versions of it still in there

[wintry spindle]

I like UA especially with the 2024 update it's nice having options of previous classes in the new addition while waiting for release

[raw sonnet]

This kit contains the hardware and software necessary to allow access into most computer systems and electronic devices. Proficiency with hacking tools lets you add your proficiency bonus to any Intelligence checks you make to connect to or make use of a computer system or electronic device. The kit fits snugly in a backpack or toolbox.

[tidal bough]

So thats what it is, its play testing before it becomes official content

[marble lion]

it has no specific setting or vibe at all

[raw sonnet]

I am still not going to touch it

[fading musk]

"Cyberpunk" Scoffs meh I dont like that stuff much

[wintry spindle]

Also it looks like that UA was ment for like an unreleased modern day DnD book

[marble lion]

id say its fair to stay away from UA but your reasoning is so wrong that i cant help but wonder if youre losing out on something here

[tidal bough]

Good for you, its almost like it isnt part of the main game and isnt officially released as main content

[marble lion]

most people who stay away from UA do it because they dont want possibly unbalanced content. thats reasonable

[wintry spindle]

The UA Renimator was so cool

[marble lion]

i love UA

[tidal bough]

Frfr it is playtest for a reason

[raw sonnet]

I don't think that I am losing out on anything by not playing with unpolished DnD materials

[wintry spindle]

Curious how they are gonna do hexblade they have tried now twice in UA

[marble lion]

you wouldnt know would you

youd actually have to read through them to know that

[lyric viper]

I feel like we might be discussing different 'UA'?
Unearthed Arcana is the name given to playtest material, covering various playtests. Modern Magic UA was a very long time ago.

UA- Urban Arcana is a Supplement for D20 Modern. (And is probably what partially inspired the Modern Magic UA).

[marble lion]

interesting

[lyric viper]

Neither is very cyberpunk. More just.. modern.

[wintry spindle]

Also it's fine saying I don't touch x material, but every table is different

Some tables dont use ebberon some do

[raw sonnet]

it's PLAYTEST. Andd the point of a PLAYTEST is to test unfinished material to make it better

[fading musk]

Well even if its just a little "cyberpunk" I still wouldn't personally touch it..

[tidal bough]

And thats perfectly fine, not everything is for everyone

[blissful quail]

After being here for a while and reading everyone’s chat, I’m starting to think I’m the only one that plays 1st edition lol

[tidal bough]

Although i wouldn't say something being modern day is cyberpunk

[marble lion]

only one? definitely not
rare though

[fading musk]

I play it.....

[blissful quail]

Atta boy

[tidal bough]

Its just modern

[wintry spindle]

I have not played first edition

[lyric viper]

Well, there is Unearthed Arcana the new rules for 1e yes 😛

[wintry spindle]

I tried once ADnD

[lyric viper]

But that didn't seem to be at all what folk were talking about.

[blissful quail]

I got the original books and everything, just what I grew up knowing how to play

[raw sonnet]

you're the first 1e player I've ever met

[wintry spindle]

My first system was 3,5

[coarse ravine]

Recently heard the rules for females in 1st edition. Very very wild this day and age.

[lyric viper]

Also, remember we do have #dnd-elder-editions chat, which is fairly active! Plenty of folk in there play older editions and would love to have more join them.

[coarse ravine]

Replacing female pcs charisma score with a beauty score lol

[raw sonnet]

huh

[marble lion]

apparently wild even back then to most people

[lyric viper]

Ah okay, that was in A Dragon Magazine for Original D&D

[marble lion]

this was the 80s, not the 40s

i just cant get past the art from old editions

[coarse ravine]

First edition if you were a ugly chick. (Dont quote me im tryna remember) I think if you were a ugly woman and tried to seduce someone and they failed.... they would instantly die

[marble lion]

5e is great im happy

[crimson gulch]

Some of the old art is great

[lyric viper]

1e didn't have those rules. But it did have rules that ended up penalising female PCs, such as restricted strength scores, and rules that meant being shorter or lighter could lock you out of certain weapons.

[raw sonnet]

that's a rather weird ddecision. I can certainly be ugly AND charismatic

[blissful quail]

I’d ig i like how simple it is but that might be bc i only played 1st edition my whole life

[raw sonnet]

why would they make it like that?

[coarse ravine]

Not my rules hahaha I just heard from the grape vine

[lyric viper]

What you're talking about was Len Lakofka's Notes on Magic and Women.

And it was, horribly, horribly sexist even back then

[coarse ravine]

Yes super sexist for sure

[fading musk]

Ah the good old days. I remember when my grandpa would take me out on the town for sausage rolls. (Not talking about the 1e rulesets)

[marble lion]

yeah some dnd devs were insulted in their magazines by people back then too

[lyric viper]

So, if we're going to continue discussing it, I'd like to remind folk to do so sensitively. Because there was some very harmful concepts in there.

[blissful quail]

Do the new editions have the assassin bonuses from first edition?

[coarse ravine]

Yes ok or take it to the other channel gotcha

[lyric viper]

Any channel.

[coarse ravine]

Thats pretty much the gist of what I learned

They were sexist against female pcs. At a insane alarming rate

[marble lion]

if you want to know more maybe google gygax

[blissful quail]

What are some things in 5e that are different than 1e?

[lyric viper]

It's very easy nowadays to joke about it, and honestly much of it is to be mocked and derided. But it's also a pretty harsh and serious topic if you go deeper than that.

[marble lion]

we have artificer class in 5e

[coarse ravine]

Idk 1e cant really speak on mechanics

[raw sonnet]

I'd imagine that if I introduced a homebrew rule that replaces female character's Charisma with "beauty" my players would literally kill me IRL even though we play online

[lyric viper]

5e is actually quite a love letter to AD&D. But there have been things introduced over the editions: Sorcerers, Warlocks, Barbarians, Dragonborn...

[coarse ravine]

The fact that if it was a ugly woman can instakill

[fading musk]

Im reacting with stars to show my support

[raw sonnet]

we have 13 classes insteadd of 3

[lyric viper]

1e still had quite a few classes.

[coarse ravine]

With druids being the best 😉

[blissful quail]

Idk if I can switch since I have no problem with it and my players don’t. I’m not sexist btw

[iron steppe]

Druids are the best

[blissful quail]

We have a good amount of classes. Druids are in 1e

[coarse ravine]

Oh what do they do?

[raw sonnet]

no

[lyric viper]

I'm afraid the very concept of woman have 'Beauty' scores instead of 'Charisma' is sexist.

[raw sonnet]

mainly turn into animals and cast some spells

[lyric viper]

All of that article was.

[coarse ravine]

Easily the most versatile. When ya dont know what dm is gonna throw at you. Always good to be versatile

[coarse ravine]

What kind of animals?

[fading musk]

Yes.

[raw sonnet]

wizard is the most versatile

[coarse ravine]

Wizards are the best class.... not the most versatile

[blissful quail]

I honestly never read the full books, just the important stuff so i didn’t know that was in there

[lyric viper]

It's not. As I've mentioned, it was in a Dragon Magazine and not in 1e.

[raw sonnet]

anything with CR of less than 1

[crimson gulch]

its hard to sit down and read a whole dnd handbook

[coarse ravine]

I just wanta compare the differences in wild shapes back then. Vs now

[coarse ravine]

So moon druids at level 10 can turn into elementals. (2014)

[raw sonnet]

the wide range of spells make them good both as DPS, support and utility

[coarse ravine]

Cr 5 with aton of conditon immunities.

[lyric viper]

Lakofka’s infamous ‘Notes on Women & Magic - Bringing the Distaff Gamer into D&D.’ for original D&D. This article is a reference to the earlier OD&D ‘Men & Magic’ supplement in 1974.

This appeared in Dragon Magazine #3, in 1976 . This article sometimes ends up being cited as core rules in some articles on D&D, but it’s not, but did influence later mechanics. It certainly influenced some concepts however and sums up a lot about what Early D&D’s approach to this was.

[raw sonnet]

I don't know description of every single druid subclass, I am a wizard and rogue main

[blissful quail]

But do the new editions have the assassin bonuses? Like in 1e at a certain level they get 2x and 3x damage for sneak attacks

[coarse ravine]

There is no healing with the wizard.... life transference sure. But no realistic longterm opti0ns for healing. Tanking as well sure bladesinger can have insane ac. But... Druid can fit any roll for the party. A wizard cannot

[lyric viper]

They have sneak attack as normal, and have special bonus and extra damage against surprised creatures.

[crimson gulch]

Magic initiate cleric feat goes pretty well on wizards

[inner silo]

how bad is taking 1 level of ranger as a fighter?

[raw sonnet]

that doesn't mean that druid is good at fitting any role

[coarse ravine]

Its the most versatile class in dnd. Yes it can fit any role

It doesn't specialize in anything. But its good at everything

[raw sonnet]

in 5e assasins are more about stuff like making up a new identity and sneaking around. THey get a damaging ability only at level 17

[raw sonnet]

it's good as a tank, support and spy, and decent at everything else

[coarse ravine]

Battlefield control ✔️
Healer ✔️
Dps esque(could argue this one)
Support ✔️
Tank ✔️

Only thing you can really argue is that on a consistent basis. Druids may struggle with dps.

[blissful quail]

Dang that’s different. In 1e I let my assassin duel wield daggers and rn he had 3x from any attacks behind an enemy

[raw sonnet]

uhm, in 5e anyone with two arms can dual wield daggers

[umbral girder]

Eh not sure on tank

[coarse ravine]

Are you kidding lol

Moon is..... busted

[umbral girder]

Temp hp falls apart when you deal with the huge amount of creatures with stat (mostly Max hp) drain

[coarse ravine]

Oh you're in 2024

[blissful quail]

But they don’t get 3x damage😎

[raw sonnet]

that's probably the best think druid can do with wild shape - tanking hits

[umbral girder]

Moon’s terrible AC combined with it too

[coarse ravine]

Im living in 2014 way different.

[umbral girder]

Also 2014

[coarse ravine]

Saying moon druid cant tank?

[umbral girder]

Moon is mid for tanking

[raw sonnet]

assassins get double damage on 17th level. Though the target must fail a saving throw

[umbral girder]

At best

[fading musk]

Druids are pretty bad..

[raw sonnet]

hell no

[umbral girder]

Nah Druids are alright

[raw sonnet]

druids are cool

[blissful quail]

I think level 5 is 2x damage for us

[fading musk]

We had one in my party that died immediately at the start of the bug bad bossfight and since he was our tank we got party wiped.

[umbral girder]

Moon suffers from pretty much anything that does a condition with it’s hits

[coarse ravine]

Gotcha so... elementals with half a dozen condition immunities. That can also heal themselves as as a bonus action.... can trap enemies inside of them with water elemental bad as a tank?

[knotty pasture]

The first mistake is having a Druid be a tank

[umbral girder]

Those are easily their weakest options for the elementals

[coarse ravine]

Its the versatility is what we are mainly talking here

[umbral girder]

Also the conditions I mainly speaking of Elementals are not immune too

[knotty pasture]

No I mean this

[umbral girder]

By the time elementals are in the picture they crumble like cards.

[raw sonnet]

in 5e it's better to take phantom subclass if you want dps

[coarse ravine]

Earth is goated water is nice they are trapped inside and take auto damage

[umbral girder]

Water does not do auto damage

[knotty pasture]

Blaming Druids for being weak cuz the Druid was thrown into their death first when they aren't even tanks is

[fading musk]

Heh well everyone is entitled to play what they want.

[coarse ravine]

I mean... You can go hangout with a medusa. Sit there conversate with it. Have a cup of tea.

[knotty pasture]

Well yes but just because you play someone wrong doesn't make said class bad

[coarse ravine]

Without any spells no other class can do this.

[raw sonnet]

how did this chat turn into a battlefield between druid fans and druid haters?

[marble lion]

i like druids

[blissful quail]

Idek what this is😭

[coarse ravine]

Yes it does

[inner silo]

Can ranger be good if focused on melee weapon combat and not on spellcasting during fights?

[fading musk]

What? I wasn't saying that. Where did you get this from?

[coarse ravine]

Read the statblock!!! After you trap them inside every round its auto 2d8

[raw sonnet]

me too, turning into animals is objectively sick

[umbral girder]

You mean its ability with a cool down?

[crimson gulch]

yeah

[knotty pasture]

Druids are pretty bad...
We had one in my party that died immediately at the start of the bug bad bossfight and since he was our tank we got party wiped.

[raw sonnet]

the whole point of a phantom is that he can deal necrotic damage when making a sneak attack

[umbral girder]

Also 2d8 Non Magical bludgeoning damage

Which does not benefit from Moon Druid’s magic damage because it’s not an attack

[coarse ravine]

Yes I always go into earth anyways but yes air and water like any other crazy feature like that have cooldowns

[raw sonnet]

that's a skill issue of a single druid, it doesn't mean that druids are bad

[coarse ravine]

Druids are a top 3 class.

[knotty pasture]

Ikr why was Druid even expected to tank in that context

[inner silo]

is taking the hunter subclass the best subclass to do it since it doesnt depend on wis?

[blissful quail]

Where is the channel for people that play the older versions? I can’t find it and Ik someone said there is one

[coarse ravine]

Shapechange makes wizards and druids auto top 3

[fading musk]

Ok? I was saying druids were badass! I agree that one I referenced was a bad examples but I still think they're really cool!!

I didnt think my lingo was THAT out of date

[raw sonnet]

https://discord.com/channels/516367331358801950/1047562297566052383

[knotty pasture]

I feel like I'm being gaslighted am I

[coarse ravine]

Druids are the least class played tho. So I get the hate

[umbral girder]

A spell they can do once a day with concentration

[fading musk]

No

[raw sonnet]

I'd say that clerics, wizards and druids all deserve to share first place

[coarse ravine]

Yes doesn't change the fact that bards can learn it. Making them a top 5 class

[knotty pasture]

Druids are bad!!

Wait I mean badass lol they are cool

[coarse ravine]

They are my top 3 yes

[knotty pasture]

Truly a hmmm moment

[fading musk]

Agreed

[lyric viper]

Druids are neutral!

[crimson gulch]

there are a lot of good subclasses, gloomstalker and swarmkeeper and drakewarded also do very well

[tawdry sentinel]

Dual wielding ranger does really good damage up until mid tier 2 where it becomes weaker and weaker compared to a build that is trying to be "good".

After that point you can pretty much double the damage you're doing by not taking ranger levels and focusing more on being a caster. But that's treating DND like a video game with a meta, when really someone is sat across the table picking monsters that you're fighting and it doesn't really matter if you do 25 damage a round or 45.

[raw sonnet]

I don't know, all druids I've met were chaotic-evil

[knotty pasture]

Broski really tried to gaslight me and pretend I'm out of date with net slang 😔 At least we're now clear on the Druid thing now

[coarse ravine]

I would have bard wayyy lower. However they have access to shapechange which puts them in my top 5

[fading musk]

I said my lingo was out of date I'm truly sorry for the misunderstanding I created.

[inner silo]

do swarmkeeper or drakewarden transfer well to 2024?

[umbral girder]

Cleric out classes Druid in tankiness

[raw sonnet]

If I had to make a tierlist, I'd say that my top 5 are
1)Wizard
2)Cleric
3)Druid
4)Rogue
5)Monk

[coarse ravine]

4, paladin, 5 bard. For me

Rearrange 1,2,3 how ya like.

[crimson gulch]

yeah, i have had 2 of each use it since the new players handbook dropped

all the old subclasses work just fine

[coarse ravine]

Twilight is busted does but no

[inner silo]

alrighty, thanks!

[fading musk]

Yw!

[umbral girder]

I’m not even including Twilight

[coarse ravine]

Not when things can petrify you, paralyze you, etc etc. The elemental conditional immunities are amazing.

[coarse ravine]

Twilight is busted for sure. Top 5 subclass without a doubt

[umbral girder]

Nah twilight is no where near top 5

[coarse ravine]

What's your top 5?

[distant raft]

Hi , I'm joining a dnd group remotely I have an idea for a character can I run it past here to see if it's ridiculous?

[inner silo]

wild magic is busted

[inner silo]

theres a channel for character discussion, folks there will definitely help you

[coarse ravine]

I mean... 20 thp here you have 20 thp here you have 20 thp. Every round. Ive been in parties with twilights and I just fill unkillable as part of that party

[umbral girder]

Light, Life, Knowledge, Peace, and a toss up with War and Tempus

[distant raft]

Ty

[umbral girder]

Yeah that isn’t that good

[coarse ravine]

Peace is awesome. Especially with a real tank in the party.

Barbarian teleporting to take the damage is fun.

[crimson gulch]

i love it when everyone has to stay within a rally close distance, the dragons breath and fireballs outpace that temp hp a lot

[distant raft]

Sorry mind linking it plz I can't seem to see it in the channel list

[umbral girder]

Temp hp is very easy to bypass, doesn’t help downed NPCs, and doesn’t stack and replaces features too like Armor of Agathys. Also 20 is an insignificantly small amount

[coarse ravine]

I think its 20 + wis mod?

[umbral girder]

Yeah that’s bad

[knotty pasture]

Mines would be Wizard Warlock Sorc Cleric Bard probably

[coarse ravine]

Or somethin..... not sure.

[umbral girder]

Might be good for the first few levels of the game but falls off hard

[coarse ravine]

Have you ever played with a twilight? Ever?.

[inner silo]

Im sorry, i forgot how to link server channels on pc😭
Picking player role may help

[coarse ravine]

I have dmd for them and played with them. You feel unkillable

[distant raft]

I found it:) ty anyway

[umbral girder]

Played it 3 times and ran it 7 times so yes

[raw sonnet]

I only played cleric once and playing as a life domain is fun. I get to sit behindd my teammates and not get called a "useless piece of shit" for not attacking

[umbral girder]

The amount of complaints at how badly it worked was a common thread

[coarse ravine]

Its banned at alot of tables along with chronurgy

[crimson gulch]

Twilight cleric is challanged the same way all spellcasters are, by properly long adventuring days

[umbral girder]

Skill issue

At least Chronourgy had the reason of poorly worded abilities to make it’s abilities iffy to know

[coarse ravine]

Yes with warlocks liking those long adventure days so they can nap lol

[coarse ravine]

I dont even remember 6th and 10 level feature. Just the 2nd and 14th

[fading musk]

Language.

[raw sonnet]

english

[coarse ravine]

Comprehend languages

[knotty pasture]

Tongues

[raw sonnet]

speak with plants

[fading musk]

Appendages?

[umbral girder]

Twilight is on the same tier as Bladesinger of “looks good on paper until you realize how fast it just falls apart in play”

[raw sonnet]

bandages

[coarse ravine]

This is reading not speaking hahaha. So comprehend languages for the win

[crimson gulch]

Twilight and bladesinger are still good, im not gonna say they are bad, but they are over hyped

[coarse ravine]

Ive never had a problem with bladsinger outside of the insane ac.

[umbral girder]

Yeah the AC is a non issue

[bronze wave]

Blade singer is best used funny enough if you don’t actually use it to melee lol but also your boring if you do that

[coarse ravine]

Don't they get some of the highest acs in the game?

[umbral girder]

And?

[coarse ravine]

Im just saying thats a thing they do

[umbral girder]

It’s rather irrelevant amount

By the time the number gets big it becomes pointless except for mobs of weak guys

[karmic pendant]

It doesn't seem hard to counter a high ac player character

[red steppe]

Going melee is a death sentence anyway if ur a full caster

[raw sonnet]

I think the funniest thing you can do as a bladesinger is use a weapon without a blade

[coarse ravine]

No that's why I said bladesinger ain't bad

[vast pelican]

With their bladesong up, they can typically match your standard plate armor.

[bronze wave]

They’d probably surpass it pretty easy

[red steppe]

Hand Crossbow yes

[coarse ravine]

"My blade is a maul"

[raw sonnet]

"I activate my whipsong"

[umbral girder]

Bladesinger, Twilight, and Moon fall under “good at tier 1” subclasses

[coarse ravine]

Whip singer hahaha

[umbral girder]

Maybe tier 2 if the DM has difficulty making encounters

[vast pelican]

A bladesinger won't surpass a guy in plate+shield until at least level 12, and even then they can only do so for a minute.

[coarse ravine]

Moon sucks at tier 4? How dare can you even fathom that

[vast pelican]

The best way for a wizard to avoid getting hit remains not being a valid target.

[coarse ravine]

Not even realistic to say something like that just sayin

[umbral girder]

I’ve had Moon die so fast in tier 4

The amount of effects that rip apart wild shape

[coarse ravine]

Mhm.... when they can wildshape every turn.

[umbral girder]

The most easy and simple one is Power word Kill instantly killing them

[coarse ravine]

Moonbeam doesn't work on wildshape.

[umbral girder]

I know.

[knotty pasture]

Its discord on the largest server in general chat, there could never be a consensus

[coarse ravine]

Earth elemental doesn't work above 100 hp

[raw sonnet]

the best way for a wizzrdd to avoidd getting hit is spamming silvery barbs and counterspell non-stop

[umbral girder]

You think I care about a 2nd level spell at tier 4?

[knotty pasture]

Optimization is probably where you can find a better answer

[coarse ravine]

For removing shapechangers yes.

[sullen ingot]

We are currently level 4, but I need an upgrade to my backpack for storage of stuff. Is any extradimensional storage realistically available to me at this time?

[vast pelican]

I've actually never seen silvery barbs in any game, and it's never been banned where I've played.

[coarse ravine]

Silvery is a 1st level spell. So is shield

[umbral girder]

Actually I don’t even know how many star blocks have moon beam too

And?

[raw sonnet]

not having silvery barbs as a wizard is a VERY big mistake

[coarse ravine]

AND!! Those are useful spells at any tier

[umbral girder]

Sounds like you got those 2 encounter days

[coarse ravine]

So silvery is a bad spell now? So is shield?

[vast pelican]

I've looked at it and it seems overrated

[fading musk]

Yeah

[umbral girder]

At tier 4? There are much better uses for your reaction by then

[vast pelican]

People talk about it like it's some game-breaking spell when it really isn't.

[bronze wave]

Well it’s a lvl1 spell slot idk what you doing with lvl1 spell slots atp

[coarse ravine]

I mean... imo if they players can do it the dm can do it. Ive been on the receiving end of a silvery for my feeblemind save.

[vast pelican]

Personally I'm doing great using those slots on 2024's Color Spray.

[dark pewter]

Silvery Barbs certainly isn't a bad spell, but it's not nearly as busted as I tend to hear people complain. It takes your reaction and doesn't even guarantee a fail, only an advantage

[bronze wave]

In early lvls which it’s meant for I think it is lol. It’s a nice help

[umbral girder]

Yeah silvery barbs is a “oh no. A single dice got rerolled. Anyway”

[bronze wave]

It’s a nice defensive card

[old sluice]

That is very false. In fact I really do think you're better off without it

[coarse ravine]

Combine it with a order cleric and it becomes busted.

[bronze wave]

I got a double NAT20 on a wizard using barbs that was fun

[coarse ravine]

Advantage goes to the paladin it gets crazy with voice of authority

[vast pelican]

Sleep and Color Spray both got massively boosted in the revised rules.

[fading musk]

Thanks Big Z

[raw sonnet]

it 100% is not. Giving a target ddisadvantage on a d20 roll AND giving your teammate an advantage on an attack against the same creature is too good for a spell of first level

[dark pewter]

An immediate attack with advantage is nice, yeah. Still wouldn't call that busted, as you can still miss with advantage, especially at higher tiers

[coarse ravine]

I personally just love voice of authority

[dark pewter]

Silvery Barbs falls off in power the same way a lot of 1st- and 2nd-level spells do; bigger threats that shift the balance of 5e's bounded accuracy

[vast pelican]

There's lots of other ways to get advantage.

And most of them last longer than a single roll.

[bronze wave]

I love sleep

[coarse ravine]

Not about that voice of authority just let's your martials do what they want. Attack

Combined with silvery you can have alot of fun.

[raw sonnet]

advantage is just half of a spell's effect

[umbral girder]

And?

[old sluice]

I'm weary of what silvery barbs does to people. Normally you should accept a die roll not going your way but silvery barbs kind of encourages you to treat it as a tragedy

[coarse ravine]

Ive just been on the receiving end of it as a player.

Not fun!!! Not fun at all!

[dark pewter]

I hold Silvery Barbs on a similar plate as the Lucky feat. Usually, my players save the spells for moments that they're really needed

[umbral girder]

The most charitable thing to give Silvery Barbs is that it’s good if the dm is making the mistake of Sending 1 or 2 monsters at the players

[dark pewter]

In the Out of the Abyss game I play in, the wizard is a Chronurge with Lucky and SB, but they save a lot of their non-SB rerolls for things like madness saves and the like

[bronze wave]

Barbs is also a very low cost spell. It’s a 1st lvl spell. Idk any broken first lvl spell outside of like T1-T2 play

[vast pelican]

Speaking of busted spells, I really ought to take Heat Metal when I get the opportunity.

[umbral girder]

Tier 2 is even pushing it

[coarse ravine]

• (crazy resource waste yes)

The wizard can shapechange into a maralith giving them reactions on every turn

[bronze wave]

In the early game I think it’s fine lol. I’m not saying to using it when havr 5+ lvl spell slots like nothing. But idk anyone who does

[coarse ravine]

So they can silvery every turn.....

[umbral girder]

If we want reactions that work all the way to tier 4 and is a first level I’d give that to Absorb Elements

[coarse ravine]

Def def

[umbral girder]

So much damage can be removed

[dark pewter]

This as well; at the low levels where SB thrives, you typically want your spell slots for damage. At higher levels where your lower slots are less important, monsters have higher modifiers. SB fits the bounded accuracy system well

[coarse ravine]

Absorb >Shield easily

[dark pewter]

And again, the fact that it takes your one reaction means no making AoOs until after your next turn, either

[coarse ravine]

Only war casters and bladesingers gonna be doing that

[umbral girder]

Well usually the people with Shield and Silvery barbs are not doing AoE attacks

[bronze wave]

Well unless you have warcaster most casters have meh AoO

[fading musk]

Im reacting with stars to show my support

[coarse ravine]

Who all gets silvery anyways?

[bronze wave]

Or bladesinger maybe

[fading musk]

I do.

[dark pewter]

Considering how popular War Caster is as a feat, it's certainly something to consider as a spellcaster

[bronze wave]

I always have fireball ready

[umbral girder]

Bard, Wizard, and Sorcerer

[timid current]

Silvery barbs is barely worth the level 1 slot, and if players keep using it... they run out of low level slots fast enough while also using up their reactions

[coarse ravine]

I know fey touched can get you silvery

[umbral girder]

Cant do an AoO with Fireball

I realized my typo in the original post

[dark pewter]

Shield is another good point; in tiers 1-2, a lot of times the +5 AC is more consistent than disadvantage

[timid current]

Can't silvery barbs and cast a cantrip as a reaction with warcaster. Can't silvery barbs and cast shield when a marilith statys attacking you. Can't silvery barbs and counterspell pwk kill

[bronze wave]

Just play a wizard and have them all

[buoyant oar]

I sit unbothered by Silvery Barbs by not allowing MTG silliness.

[umbral girder]

Yeah late tier 2 is when +5 ac gets overwhelmed

[umbral girder]

Yeah we already did mention that.

[bronze wave]

Like most lvl1 spells lol.

[coarse ravine]

As a wizard you can

[dark pewter]

I'm a big advocate for encouraging my players' power fantasy, but Silvery Barbs is so easy to use as an achilles heel

[coarse ravine]

High level of course.

[timid current]

Don't ping me to lie to me please

[dark pewter]

It's got some give and take for sure

[timid current]

Wizards do not have any way to get more than one reaction in a round

[coarse ravine]

Also isn't the 18th level feature of wizard something about 1st level spells?

[dawn cipher]

Pointy Hat's Eberron video made me really want to get that new book when it comes out in here next month

[umbral girder]

A single first level no longer needs slots

[coarse ravine]

Maralith bud

Shapechange.

[umbral girder]

That’s what Wizard gets out of the 18th level feature

[timid current]

Hey stop pinging me

[umbral girder]

Lose concentration and stop pinging him.

[fading musk]

Ok

[coarse ravine]

So basically silvery for free?

[dawn cipher]

I might even try to get special version with that fancy cover

[dark pewter]

Wizard can't use Spell Mastery for Silvery Barbs, at least in '24

[umbral girder]

Eats your reaction for a single reroll

[timid current]

Wizards do not get more than one reaction. Mariliths do but Marilith is a monster not a player species.

[coarse ravine]

Well dont call someone a liar... its called open your horizons and maybe some knowledge can be had. All good

[umbral girder]

Really is a bad amount

[coarse ravine]

Shapechange!

[bronze wave]

I’d know if I got that far 😔

[raw sonnet]

I ate uranium

[night jay]

Does anyone have a favorite 3d printable dwarvenforge-like terrain system? Looking to print a bunch of stuff for my dm as a Christmas gift and I know hed love something like that

[umbral girder]

Dispel Magic, Counterspell, losing concentration, it’s very easy to lose that

The time you get Shapechange the DCs for concentration skyrocket beyond you

[timid current]

If you are making up rules then yes you can abuse it. Please stop pinging me

[dark pewter]

Nothing alerts your entire party like counterspelling the Druid's Shapechange

[timid current]

This is like four times

[coarse ravine]

2 level star druid maybe 😉 but yeah when dm gives a 100 damage round. Nothing is passing dc 50

[bronze wave]

What powers did you gain

[raw sonnet]

cancer

[bronze wave]

Damn

[timid current]

Yes if you make up a way that doesn't exist in the rules to get more than one reaction then yes you will have more than one reaction

[coarse ravine]

Idk what "ip" rules are

[umbral girder]

Yeah that helps nothing

A 10 is not saving you

[coarse ravine]

Rules as written shapechange and maralith has a reaction every round. Thus you can cojnterspell every round/ or silvery/ or shield/ or absorb elements/ aoo etc

[umbral girder]

Everyone has a reaction every round

[coarse ravine]

Every turn sorry

[umbral girder]

I think you mean every turn. (Unless you get shocking grasped or certain monster attacks)

[coarse ravine]

"Reactive. The marilith can take one reaction on every turn in a combat"

[bronze wave]

I think it means it’s own turn?

[umbral girder]

No

[bronze wave]

Oh damn that’s crazy

[umbral girder]

Marilith gets it on every turn. Like Tiamat and the Hydra.

[buoyant oar]

Many arms.

[bronze wave]

Idk what a marilitj is ngl like wha is that

[umbral girder]

A demon Cr16

[coarse ravine]

A snake/ scorpion with 6 arms

[umbral girder]

Or was it Cr15? Around that range

[bronze wave]

I’m gonna be a dragon for the cool points

Flame breath buddy make that con save

[dark pewter]

Using Shapechange to turn into a Marilith does require having seen one before, as a note. If you haven't faced one, it's fairly unlikely that you've seen one, depending on the setting

[coarse ravine]

Correct rules as written

[timid current]

Marilith has been reprinted

[umbral girder]

Yeah and they still have the same Reactive trait

They get a reaction every turn of combat still

[raw sonnet]

I've just rolled 8, 9, 10, 10, 12 and 11 for the stats of my new dnd characcter. I am never rolling for stats ever again

[bronze wave]

Big 12

[umbral girder]

Sounds like peak stats to me

[raw sonnet]

yeah, insanely lucky

[coarse ravine]

You gotta go champion fighter. For the funny basic guy lol

[bronze wave]

You lucky also. I got stats where one of them was a 5

[umbral girder]

I love messing with characters with lower stats

[old sluice]

Now if you've never seen a Marilith before, there are ways!

Divination mainly

[raw sonnet]

it was supposed to be a wizard

[raw sonnet]

a what?

[umbral girder]

Demon

[timid current]

Neat. So an 18th level wizard can use a reaction every turn to silvery barbs for free. But still using your 9th level slot for it and getting a really mediocre effect at 18th level

[dark pewter]

Ooh, divination is a good shout

[umbral girder]

The low stats mainly mean you don’t get to Multiclass mainly

[coarse ravine]

Rules as written if you see it wild reading scripture? Does that count or no?

[umbral girder]

Yep!

[coarse ravine]

Pictures etc

[raw sonnet]

I was not planning to multiclass

[umbral girder]

Also eats you concentration too

[timid current]

Yeah

[coarse ravine]

Yes Wizards are the best. As a druid lifer I cant even argue it.

[umbral girder]

So you can’t cast other spells that need concentration

[dark pewter]

Though, Scrying a Marilith would be pretty difficult

Shy of having one of the physical components Scry lists, they do get a substantial bonus and advantage

[raw sonnet]

thank god my DM allowed to re-roll

[timid current]

And every time you use silvery barbs is another time you aren't using counterspell

[umbral girder]

Oh yeah one of my Tuesday gams reached tier 4, so my 10 campaign to reach tier 4!

[coarse ravine]

He can do it again next turn

[lyric viper]

Remember you can turn of pings in replies!

[cosmic roost]

No pings, please :pray:

If you see someone with “No Pings” in their name, please don’t @ that user. If you Reply to them, please turn the alert @OFF, and if you forget, a simple apology is appreciated. Thank you!

[timid current]

As a dm I absolutely love silvery barbs

[lyric viper]

If you see an @ before a name in a reply, means you've accidently pinged in that reply. When turned off, there's no @ (Like in this one!)

[timid current]

It's a great way to add counterplay (at a cost!) For the party

[raw sonnet]

now I rolled 11, 9, 13, 11, 10 and 14. Not much better

[dark pewter]

If you really want to use a 9th-level spell and a 1st- or higher spell slot every cast (in '24, at least) to Silvery Barbs every turn, in tier 4 play, then that's gonna be a pretty niche build

But it is possible

[timid current]

Well you can at level 18 ignore the slot but if you use one of your spell mastery choices on silvery barbs lmao

[dark pewter]

2024 Spell Mastery has to be an action. 2014 doesn't, though

[fading musk]

Whats the big deal about Silvery Barbs anyway?

[umbral girder]

Yeah the convo was primarily around 2014 rules set

[umbral girder]

As a reaction you can make an enemy reroll and give someone advantage

First level spell

[fading musk]

Sounds nice if you pair it with lucky or divination

[umbral girder]

It’s an entire spell slot for 1 reroll

[fading musk]

Thats my favorite type of wizardry

[timid current]

Nothing really, it's a great resource sink

[fading musk]

K

[timid current]

Oh yeah- so it's still a resource sink

I think some dms roll a critical hit then are forced to reroll it and decide the spell is broken

But like... why does your challenge rely on critical hits lol

[umbral girder]

Also have multiple enemies

[timid current]

Sounds like it was still critical it just cost a spell slot and a reaction instead of hp

[dark pewter]

I also personally wouldn't want to use my Spell Mastery on SB anyway. I feel like most of my wizards have more fitting or even flat-out stronger spells to cast for free

[umbral girder]

It’s sillier but I like to pick Magic missile

I just think it’s neat

[vast pelican]

I'm basic, I'd pick Shield

[timid current]

Can't in 2024

Actions, not reactions

[dark pewter]

It's a build that feels similar in stake as that one initiative build where you add 4 different mods to your init mod

[fading musk]

I would mastery grease

[vast pelican]

Idk, silent image then

[potent siren]

The Grease Wizard

[umbral girder]

Sleep or Hideous Laughter are probably my Mastery choice for it to a be a good spell

[dark pewter]

That's the kind of Mastery I really like, too

[umbral girder]

Since those can work as turn skips

I had an NPC with Magic missile. He nearly killed the level 10 fighter

“Bro I’m playing a Bullet Hell and failing!!”

[coarse ravine]

@off Well... kind of encounter enders if they fail.

[umbral girder]

You did not turn off the ping

[coarse ravine]

I tried tho lol

[umbral girder]

There is a button, a blue button you press

[frosty bronze]

wsspppppppp

[umbral girder]

Right next to your message before you send it.

[timid current]

Hideous laughter is excellent, it can be a great way for players to burn legendary resistanxes

[umbral girder]

Reminds me how an Aasamir Paladin I was playing burned all 3 of a Boss’ Legendary resistances in one turn

[coarse ravine]

@off ohhhh I see.

[umbral girder]

2024 Paladin is fun to mess with

[coarse ravine]

What's the difference?

[umbral girder]

The main bit was the Find Steed spell (paladins get it for free) and using the new Steed options

[coarse ravine]

Oh so like a real deal knight

[umbral girder]

Aasamir Necrotic Shroud, as an action I channeled divinity to try and frightened it, and my Steed used its bonus action to also frightened it.

It was a boss with only melee so it would have been screwed being Frightened

And I buffed my Charisma to 18 and had an amulet of the Devout

All the Legendary resistances down the drain

[coarse ravine]

There ya go. That aura is everything

[umbral girder]

Then a good sleep from a team mate and a smite for big crit combos

[umbral girder]

All smites (including divine smite) use a bonus action and can be activated the moment they hit
Paladin gets a free use of Divine smite and Find Steed (which is buffed)

[dark pewter]

I've finally taught some of my more novice players that while losing a spell to a Legendary Resistance stings, burning them is absolutely key

[umbral girder]

Yeah I’ve been doing the Flee, Mortals method of tying some extra effect with Legendary resistances

Like a Mummy Lord can only LR if it removes a curse it placed

[dark pewter]

It helps that we also get really into it as a group and count up LRs together. Whenever I say, "[monster] uses a Legendary Resistance", the whole party replies, "One." or however many it's been

[coarse ravine]

Would you legendary resist faerie fire? Whole party adv on your bbeg?

[umbral girder]

Or a Beholder loses one of it’s eye rays to LR

[dark pewter]

100%, yeah

Same with Hold Person/Monster and stun effects, those are all pretty much auto-LR unless the statblock has an easy way to remove them or an immunity

[coarse ravine]

Yeah Stun is a 9th level spells fix. That's why psychic scream is a encounter ender

Cause power word heal is the only thing that fixes stun

[dark pewter]

Most of my monstrous bosses have stun immunity built-in, but those that don't are always gonna avoid it at all costs

[umbral girder]

Something I wonder about, imagine if monsters could use LR on a source of damage once.

Like if a big crit smacked them

Then again Martials got their extra attacks so eh

[cerulean monolith]

I think some of Ti’s monsters have done something akin to Bladesinger’s Song of Defense with LRs

[dark pewter]

I've tried something similar, but in practice, this is the exact weakness. Burning resources against attacks tends to get outweighed by the sheer number of attacks a martial can throw

[umbral girder]

Fighters with 8 attacks “oh no, anyway.”

[coarse ravine]

Yet with multiclassing the druid and wizard can throw the most attacks in the game.

However sense fighter is apart of that. Fighter still applies

[vast pelican]

I haven't had the opportunity to see fighter outside T1, but my experience in BG3 informs me of how scary it is.

[dark pewter]

I've never known a spellcaster to have access to even close to 4 attacks consistently each round, impressive

[umbral girder]

Yeah fighter’s single target damage is wild

[nova trellis]

Would 5 human sized tarrasque beat a tarrasque sized tarrasque?

[umbral girder]

The Tarrasque wins

[coarse ravine]

Without haste I think its like 14?

[umbral girder]

Because it can burrow and has AOE

[vast pelican]

Well if the 5 tarrasques still have all their other stats as normal...

[umbral girder]

Consistently?

[coarse ravine]

Heck nah

Action surge marilith

[umbral girder]

Also if we want burst fighter still wins with Samurai

With 18-19 attacks in a round

[coarse ravine]

But..... if you brought swords that can outpace her swords.

[dark pewter]

Yeah, that's why I said consistently. My barb/fighter could go nova pretty hard with 13 attacks, but that was almost every resource

[umbral girder]

Actually with 2024 a Fighter Samurai can do 20-21 attacks now with the Nick Mastery

[vast pelican]

If the tarrasque swallowed a mini-tarrasque, the mini-tarrasque could grapple and restrain it from inside its stomach.

[coarse ravine]

Shaheeeeeeesh

[umbral girder]

Can’t grapple a creature that’s two sizes categories bigger than you

Fighters are single target damage monsters

[coarse ravine]

• tarasque is prolly immune to grapple

Spitball theory.

[umbral girder]

I don’t know on that

[vast pelican]

Where is that?

[umbral girder]

Grapple immunity is usually oozes and ghosts

[coarse ravine]

Elemental ^ etc

Correct.

[nova trellis]

You can't hug a ooz? 😔

Terrible awful world.

[coarse ravine]

Hes a big boy he can get grappled

[umbral girder]

Grapple. The target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or it has the Grappled condition. The DC for the saving throw and any escape attempts equals 8 plus your Strength modifier and Proficiency Bonus. This grapple is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you and if you have a hand free to grab it.

I’ll grab the 14 version too

[timid current]

Marilith's multiattacks only function with their pact blades

[nova trellis]

Does a Nealan have grapple immunity.

[coarse ravine]

I mean she has 6 arms up to her and dm

[timid current]

Again unless you're houseruleing and adding in a new multiattack there that doesn't exist

[coarse ravine]

And how you manage 6 different items hahaha.

[umbral girder]

Grappling
When you want to grab a creature or wrestle with it, you can use the Attack action to make a special melee attack, a grapple. If you’re able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them.
**The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach. **

[timid current]

Multiattack is specific that they are pact blade attacka

[umbral girder]

Also yeah Multiattack only does the attacks stated.

[timid current]

So you can bring whatever else you want, but if you want 6 attacks plus a grapple that's going to be pact blades

[umbral girder]

It’s not as flexible as Extra attacks

[coarse ravine]

Well then just her weapons

I mean the extra attacks are still there. But its her weapons

[umbral girder]

Free hand or grasping appendage for grappling so her weapons cannot

[umbral girder]

Extra Attack ≠ Multiattack

NPC stat blocks function differently from PC abilities

[coarse ravine]

Its with the 2 level dip of action surge.

[umbral girder]

You’d get to use the Multiattack action twice at least. No grappling.

[timid current]

Sorry, meant the constrict feature

[coarse ravine]

Yeah he was talking mini tarasque I was replying to the prior comment. The marilith wouldn't be grappling.

[vast pelican]

That's the rules for unarmed strikes.

The tarrasque does not grapple using unarmed strikes.

[umbral girder]

I like the 2024 Tarrasque added “the target cannot teleport”

[vast pelican]

The tarrasque simply makes a bite attack and, if it hits, the target is immediately grappled and restrained.

[coarse ravine]

Ohhhh that's epic

Makes him alot scarier then the 2014 one

[rough basalt]

Oh yeah

[umbral girder]

Also it has a burrow speed, also a 150ft cone attack, also it forces flying creatures to fall and ends contraction of everything 60ft of the Tarrasque

[rough basalt]

4e does it again

Tho '25s is more fair than 4es Earthbind Aura

[umbral girder]

Also has 6 legendary resistances.
+18 Initiative too
Also nearly 700 average HP

[coarse ravine]

Yes burrow is huge

[vast pelican]

Now what's really wild about this miniature tarrasque with all the normal features is that, as a medium creature, it can swallow six large creatures.

[umbral girder]

It’s 697hp

[rough basalt]

You know what the real fun is tho?

[coarse ravine]

He get tremorsense tho?

[rough basalt]

You can use its roar on a town

[umbral girder]

Oh yeah swallow is a bonus action now

[rough basalt]

Which does double damage to structures

[umbral girder]

Blindsense so close enough

[brittle beacon]

120 ft blind sight

[rough basalt]

If players won't fight it, it'll kill hundreds of innocent people in one roar

[coarse ravine]

Not underground nk

[old vector]

hello

[umbral girder]

Also it resists ALL bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage too

[vast pelican]

Yeah, that turns everything in its path other than adventurers into chunky salsa.

[old vector]

Who here plays by text?

[coarse ravine]

Non-magical or just period?

[umbral girder]

All of it

Magical damage is not in 2024 anymore so it’s all

It’s an absolute unit now

[coarse ravine]

Still cant fly

[jovial shadow]

Tarrasasques are Quasi-Deities. Players have a small chance if any of defeating one. Best to just teleport away.

[coarse ravine]

What's its range options.

[umbral girder]

Yeah because flying creatures automatically fall out of the sky next to it

[fervent pendant]

Guys what do is your opinion on the artificer class

[umbral girder]

Also 150ft AOE cone attack

[old vector]

Can I join your table?

[coarse ravine]

What 🤣

[old vector]

Tell me the context

[umbral girder]

It also auto ends Concentration with no saving throw too with that same ability

[jovial shadow]

probably referring to it's thunder blast

[umbral girder]

It’s fine

[coarse ravine]

You cant concentrate?

[umbral girder]

Yeah it’s powerful

[vast pelican]

It's very fun for me. There's a lot of versatility in how it plays.

[rough basalt]

Has a legendary action where it can move up to its speed and everywhere within 60ft of it loses concentration and drops from the sky

[umbral girder]

It also got a new piece of lore on it

If you kill a Tarrasque another one spawns somewhere

[coarse ravine]

Ok so he's the real deal legendary monster now. Cause the old one was not the case

[rough basalt]

Yeah because the Tarrasque has always been a real deal oh holy crap monster, except for 5e14

[fervent pendant]

It is somebody else’s problem then or just more xp

[still plover]

Check the listings in #looking-for-players for games that want people, read the details, respond as appropriate and cross your fingers.

Type /looking and select the option for #looking-for-dm to advertise yourself as a new player in search of a group. Be sure to include your regular availability!

There are other Discord servers where people gather for games. You can find them in #looking-for-community .

Aside from here, you could also try LFG areas in sites like Reddit, Roll20 or the D&D Beyond forums to get started.

[umbral girder]

Yeah 2014 Tarrasque is the weakest of them all

[rough basalt]

It's reflective carapace being its one good thing which they kept

[umbral girder]

I like 3e’s Tarrasque

You had to get it to -50HP and use a Wish spell and it might kill it.

Also regains 100hp every round

[jovial shadow]

Run from the Tarrasque. Don't try to fight it

[umbral girder]

Also they didn’t give you the odds of Wish killing the Tarrasque

[rough basalt]

If I ever see a Tarrasque ingame I'm fighting it even if my party leaves me to die.

[umbral girder]

It’s more “it’s a Rumor that Wish can do it”

[crimson gulch]

My players have killed the tarrasque in 5e like 5 times. 4 times with 2014

[scenic zinc]

3e was such a fundamentally different kind of game. In that time, death was an expected experience you'd encounter as a player.

[coarse ravine]

What was stranger things based on?

[umbral girder]

AD&D

[scenic zinc]

The culture of dnd has shifted drastically in the past 20 years.

[coarse ravine]

Time period wise.

[umbral girder]

AD&D for Stranger Things

[coarse ravine]

Ahh ok so 70s?

[umbral girder]

80s

[raw sonnet]

just realized that you can cast the spell "Mage Amour" on any willing creature, not just humanoids

[umbral girder]

Yes. Also they cannot have any kinds of armor on (natural included)

[timid current]

It's wild how hard it was to die in 3.5

There's a reason it was the template for superhero games. I loved the mmo feel of it at the time

[scenic zinc]

Eh?

[umbral girder]

AD&D had a fun rule, you can only be resurrected an amount of times equal to your Con Score

[timid current]

All the tiny granular bits and bobs, the massively powerful pcs, etc

[scenic zinc]

It was super easy to die in 3.5

[umbral girder]

3.5e was coin flips pretty much

[scenic zinc]

You lived if you built correctly.

[timid current]

It was wild how hard it was for dms to challenge players

[coarse ravine]

I.... kinda like that

[scenic zinc]

what are you talking about?

[umbral girder]

They kinda threw out stuff at the wall and see what sticks

[inner silo]

Could a fighter battlemaster+berserker barbarian multiclass work?

[rough basalt]

Are you thinking of 4e?

[timid current]

It was kind of the birth of the "find consequences other than death" era

[umbral girder]

Yes

[inner silo]

Alrighty

[timid current]

No, I liked 4e a lot but I'm talking about 3.5.

[scenic zinc]

4e was the one with the mmo feel

[umbral girder]

Sounds like a lack of knowing how to run 3.5e as there were so many instant death stuff

[rough basalt]

3.5e all you had to do was fail a save and you died

[raw sonnet]

the creature must not WEAR an armour. Wearing means "to have clothing, jewellery, etc. on your body". And since natural armour isn't an item you can wear, it still allows you to cast this spell, though the effects of natural armour and this spell do not stack

[scenic zinc]

3e and 3.5e has so many ways to die extremely easily.

[timid current]

I loved how 3.5 leaned so heavily into super powerful videogamey builds and stuff but I am glad we evolved to better game systems since

[buoyant oar]

4th edition was the Edition specifically created to Challenge MMOs. 3.5 v v was super easy to kill players. I killed them all the time

[rough basalt]

4e again

[scenic zinc]

What are you talking about? This is 4e. Not 3.5

[timid current]

Yes, 4e is better but I am talking about 3.5

[scenic zinc]

You're not though.

[buoyant oar]

Superhero hyperpowers was definitely the 4th edition thing.

[timid current]

3.5 introduced us all to hyper powerful builds, dozens of micro adjustment ups and downs, and dlc style classes and Prestige classes

[rough basalt]

3.5e had stupid powerful PCs sure but it also had God statblocks and so many spells and abilities that just instakilled people.

[timid current]

Things like pun pun and jumplomancy and getting sneak attack 8+ times a turn

[scenic zinc]

That was done as early as ad&d

[rough basalt]

Like 5e adding instant kill abilities in '25 is drawn from 3.x

[scenic zinc]

But you had to be very careful

[timid current]

It was a wild time, the video game influences definitely shaped all subsequent editions

It was an eye opener coming from 2nd AD&D into an mmo on paper but i loved it

[raw ocean]

Best questions to ask on session 0?

[scenic zinc]

Video game influence is readily apparent in 4e and 5e.

Beforehand? No. I don't think so.

[lyric viper]

I'd compare 3.5 more to the deck building mentality of MTG.
But is was all very, very modular and you can see how AD&D inspired CRPGs inspired D&D inspired CRPGs and so on.

[buoyant oar]

Yeah it's More that D&D before 4th edition was the influencer of video games, not the influenced

Neverwinter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic. Those games were literally built upon third edition's rule set

[rough basalt]

Ye 4e was when they added MMO style roles and abilities and PCs became God's off the rip

[scenic zinc]

Which was wonderful.

[raw sonnet]

Why do people even play older versions of DnD? I'm not mocking older versions, that's a genuine question I have

[raw ocean]

Different game loop?

[rough basalt]

Preference

[scenic zinc]

'Cause they find those fun?

[buoyant oar]

The same reason that people don't want to advance to the new rules that came out. They like what they have

[raw sonnet]

why are you asking me?

[lyric viper]

They can support different playstyles more. Focus on different aspects.

[rough basalt]

Some people get a bit excessive with their reasoning, but it all boils down to what you wanna do

[lyric viper]

I like 3.5 for the customisation. AD&D had a somewhat more 'organic' feel, and was more player skill than PC skill orientated. 4e had great combat designs. 5e is really easy to run.

[raw ocean]

It's like playing overwatch and TF2, TF2 is different but they are essentially the same game ig?

[buoyant oar]

Earlier editions in many ways were a lot less hand wavy. And you were expected to hand wave as little as possible as a dungeon master. It's like the difference between playing Skyrim and Kingdom Come Deliverance. Those RPGs are both great but they expect a lot different things

[scenic zinc]

The different versions are more accurately entirely different games.

It just depends on the game you want to play.

[umbral girder]

Some people don’t let go of the past, some want the novelty of trying it out, Money, different play styles in the gameplay, etc. etc.

Plenty of reasons

[rough basalt]

Some people love crunchy games

[scenic zinc]

Huh?

[lyric viper]

Love the meta game of character building? 3.5
Love tactical combat? 4e
Love player skill and human focused fantasy? 1e

[raw sonnet]

yeah but one is a bad game with a toxic community and the other one is TF2. A better comparison would be TF2 and TFC

[scenic zinc]

They're in no way the same game lol

[raw ocean]

Two teams of varying roles battle it out to become the winner?

[rough basalt]

Love hyperlethal low levels but absolutely terrifying high levels? 2e

[umbral girder]

5e is kinda a mixture of all the other editions which is fun

[rough basalt]

TSR era dnd also known as the "get your wizard to high level and you're gold"

[raw sonnet]

that doesn't make two games the same

[buoyant oar]

They're the same of two teams in varying roles in the same that all sports are the same because they have a ball.

[scenic zinc]

That's overly reductive

[raw ocean]

Two games of the same genre that have different mechanics and niches

[scenic zinc]

That's like saying soccer and tf2 are the same lol

[raw ocean]

happy?

[lyric viper]

Getting a little off topic

[rough basalt]

Each edition is pretty different and each edition was kind of an era in itself

[raw ocean]

That's what im saying

[coarse ravine]

Is bg3 like divinity?

[scenic zinc]

Anywho, different versions of dnd are essentially entirely different games.

[vast pelican]

Well, they're both turn-based Larian rpgs

[lyric viper]

A closer comparison might be the Elder scrolls games. Not just the stories, but the game play can be very different while also still following the same concepts.

[buoyant oar]

It depends on which Divinity you're talking about. Divinity has also been an RTS and action RPG and a third person open world RPG while also being a turn-based game

[rough basalt]

That's about the only thing they have in common tbh

[lyric viper]

(Also, elder scrolls was based off of D&D and reflected changes between TSR AD&D and WotC D&D)

[raw sonnet]

or Dark Souls and Elden Ring

[scenic zinc]

Pretty sure it was originally a homebrew dnd world that they turned into a video game

[buoyant oar]

That's correct tamriel. Was the setting of bgs' office game

[rough basalt]

Ye during the development of Daggerfall, the devs played a dnd game to worldbuild Tamriel further.

[coarse ravine]

Ay yo that's awesome

[raw ocean]

Aren't a few spells originally from characters made by players?

[scenic zinc]

Way more than a few

[rough basalt]

Elder Scrolls is probably the easiest video game world to run a dnd game

[umbral girder]

“I cast sleep”
“His ally uses their action to wake them up and say ‘hey you!-‘“

[rough basalt]

You were trying to fight the party right? But you failed the save?

[umbral girder]

I need to work on my Skyrim D&D game

Basically it’s just the plot of Skyrim but the Dragonborn never appeared, it was a group of D&D PCs.

[rough basalt]

I wanna run an ES game too

[scenic zinc]

-# Oblivion is better

[umbral girder]

“Like our Horse Thief over there.”
looks at sleeping Centaur Rogue

[buoyant oar]

Morrowind is better

[rough basalt]

Morrowind, but Nerevars soul is split among all the PCs

[lean wigeon]

ive never played TES

[scenic zinc]

The dragonborn is a terribly written deus ex machina character.

[rough basalt]

If you're ever in need of a time sink and want a fantasy game, I suggest trying it out

[scenic zinc]

True

[umbral girder]

The easiest drama of it all is when the D&D players they cannot kill Alduin themselves since they are not the Dragonborn

Bro abusing destiny powers

[rough basalt]

I just wanna call my players moon and star in a way that makes them wonder if the villain is flirting with them /j

[scenic zinc]

They can kill him. Just not forever.

[raw ocean]

You can kill any D&D character instantly with one action in D&D

Ending your campaign, just destroy their world and they die

[umbral girder]

The main idea having it be a quest to find a way to beat an invincible foe like a lot fantasy

[scenic zinc]

Power Word: DM?